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Socialism shows

...in the stupidity of Resist Trump movement.

Alexandra Ocasio-Cortes has been bragging about her science-fair knowledge. Apparently an astronomer named a space-rock after her for taking second place in a global science fair [corrected: not merely statewide] in high school. She shoved it in Ted Cruz's face then went on to say, "Young man, it's funny for you to talk about chromosomes because you don't even believe in evolution!" So much for Intelligent Design. Can we admit now that science is a part of culture so cultural Marxism has its own version of science too?

Once they discovered DNA, it was "game over" for creationism, because it showed exactly how every organism reproduced themselves!...and planned for improvements down the line. No? Well it's close. Devolving into varieties, evolving into species, scientists must score these the same way, but they're too busy to explain until graduate school...as long as you don't ask too many nosy questions before you get there. Though I hear once they have your money and your investment in a field where only they can credit you with further advancement, their interest in filling the holes in explanations like these kind of ebbs.

Think of all the genetic material we share with the chimpanzee! Why couldn't a chimp evolve an extra pair of chromosomes or two through (a really good) beneficial mutation that essentially restructures the organism on the fly without killing it or hampering its fertility (whew!), then restores the genetic material on to the new chromosomal structure in such a way that it shows no appearance of what happened other than a capacity for what would to all eyes appear to be an advancement! Now that's a really really beneficial mutation. But hey, in five billion years, who's to say...what?...the fossil record doesn't agree there's that much time? I'm beginning to see why I prefer talking about my amazing plans for the future. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 12:14, 29 February 2020 (EST)

I find it amusing (no, it's actually depressing) that we have a senator, and a Vice President, neither of whom accepts evolution, and that one of them is challenging AOC's science expertise. While winning 2nd prize in a competition in high school may not be a noteworthy scientific achievement, it does show that she probably paid attention in her science classes. It might have been nice if AOC had just replied with a 1 or 2 sentence explanation of the X and Y chromosomes, but she probably figured that Cruz and Pence are too ignorant to understand those things. I'd write up a quick explanation myself, but there is no need for it; Conservapedia's page on the subject is reasonably good. SamHB (talk) 20:49, 29 February 2020 (EST)
If I'm not mistaken, there was a certain debater against evolution who trounced the "scientists" so badly that they had to make up more than one rule out of whole cloth to limit his participation. This happened fairly recently, so you really can't depend on the inertia of the reputation of this "science" to defend it (the "science" to which AOC appealed). It may be already sinking like the Titanic! VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 01:52, 1 March 2020 (EST)
Further, what I hoped to do was decouple evolution doctrines, particularly the embarassing conventional wisdom that goes with it, from the rest of the biological sciences, like genetics. But in the context of Ted Cruz's question, that gets completely ignored by you, and you still somehow see a rejection of evolution doctrines to be not only relevant, but perhaps even central to a rejection of the existence of Y-chromosomes altogether. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 09:51, 1 March 2020 (EST)
I admit that the issues of science, the mocking of science by putting the word in quotes, evolution, genetics, DNA, and Y-chromosomes, have a complex interplay. And I'm not completely disagreeing with you. I admit that I addressed Ted Cruz's question in a way that made it appear that I was completely ignoring some aspects of this. Rejection of evolution is most definitely not the same as rejection of Y-chromosomes.
I can't say absolutely for certain that Ted Cruz and Mike Pence did not pay attention in science classes in school. But I can say that the scientific and technological achievements, that we all benefit from every day, came from people who did pay attention in science classes. SamHB (talk) 00:38, 2 March 2020 (EST)
You mean like coronavirus? or are you still gonna argue it occurred in nature and jumped from snakes to people? or 5G, whose known RF radiation is harmful to humans and may weaken their immune systems? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:25, 2 March 2020 (EST)
A great man once said real science is often leavened with pseudo-science, so I have doubts that certain fields of study like evolution deserve to be called a real science. Hence I call evolution a "science" or so-called science. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 14:41, 2 March 2020 (EST)
And I'm all for encouraging the youth but not holding the hand of a United States Representative who's trying to overthrow the established political order and then appeals to very conventional credentials, particularly in a way in which it looks like she is putting her SAT scores on a job application. Like Trump said, "we don't need babies, we need people who know what they're doing!" VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 02:10, 1 March 2020 (EST)
Second place in a public high school science competition? Don't say that too loudly. It's nothing to get excited about. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 02:45, 1 March 2020 (EST)
Who's getting excited about it? I'm not the one who brought up AOC and the science fair. Ted Cruz did, and VargasMilan did. And what job application is she putting her SAT scores on? Oh, she's not putting her SAT scores on a job application; she's just acting in a way that looks as though she is? Just what is she doing that leads you to believe that? And what is she trying to overthrow?
By the way, I think paying attention in English class, so that one learns how to express oneself coherently, with consistent sentence structure, is as useful as paying attention in science class. SamHB (talk) 00:38, 2 March 2020 (EST)
See, this is the weakness among science cultists. Comprehension of a simple finite fact, say the structure of DNA for example, in a universe that by definition in infinite, is not the end-all-to-beat-all. Sure, a student masters an academically challenging subject in a highly technical field at great personal and economic expense, but that mastery is not ultimate or final truth. The structure of DNA is only a mole hill in an infinite universe. This fact actually undercuts the credibility of many ignorant science cultists - my suspicion is many of these science cultists are not interested in truth or science at all; many are on an anti-God crusade to prove they are as smart as or smarter than God, or prove God wrong. And it usually resolves itself in these science cultists not even attacking the object of their scorn - God, but rather mocking and attacks against innocent bystanders - their fellow creatures whom God created, as ignorant or unenlightened. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:53, 29 February 2020 (EST)
Thank you. I agree that there's more to ethics than just following certain principles; if you have habits that allow you to be successful in worldly matters yet set a bad example for others, you've really only succeeded in isolating yourself. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 10:30, 1 March 2020 (EST)
Well said. And I mean that. SamHB (talk) 00:39, 2 March 2020 (EST)
So the question boils down to this: Is anti-religious bigotry the way to promote science? IMO, doubtful. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:05, 2 March 2020 (EST)
When I read science books and about science books in the 20th century, I can't help but think the whole point of becoming a theoretical scientist is to have a platform from which to bludgeon the Christian community in retaliation for supposed slights.
They hounded Louis Pasteur because he wouldn't accept the doctrine of "spontaneous generation" which they needed so badly to be true because in their own minds they thought they would have contradicted the Bible and achieved something great.
The theory of Relativity promoted the idea that the truth was relative, so there was no species-specific human nature, especially with regard to the intellect, to which to apply general moral laws, again, contradicting the Bible.
Scientists still follow Darwin, despite the fact that it would have taken much more time than the alleged 13-billion-year age of the universe to produce the (often irreducible) complexities of the mechanics of biological life with any reasonable degree of probablity. But it contradicts the creation story in the Bible so then there's that.
The discovery of the big bang wiped out Darwin's theory and despite scientists knowing about it, they wouldn't discuss it until they were forced to. It supported the idea that the visible universe had a beginning like a creation moment, like in the Bible, though so maybe they just had better things to talk about.
Here's a footnote from a theoretical physician early in the 20th century. "I believe that the term 'laws of nature' is based historically on the belief that they are the dictates of an arbitrary despot, namely the laws of God." First, a despot is someone who rules without the authority of the community. Shouldn't the creator rule the creation? Secondly, they're not arbritrary; they're suited to serve God's different purposes, some of which being temporary.
Stephen Hawking repeated a 200-year-old myth about a famous French physicist who supposedly said when asked about formulating his laws of nature that God was an unnecessary hypothesis. Of course he meant his physics bore upon the creation not heaven, but why not smear everyone with your own hostility instead and repeat the story uncritically.
Physicists used to pride themselves in disciplining themselves into only discussing the observable universe, and refusing to discuss it as a wonder of God. When it turned out the visible universe's orgination was so fine-tuned as to make the origination "miraculous", physicists couldn't hurry faster to suddenly disfigure the science they practiced, so they could pontificate upon the existence of multiple universes completely outside the visible universe we live in. Hawking was among them. He was heard to say "it's easier to do the physics if you leave out God". Gee thanks, Stephen Hawking. The word "easier" could mean anything, including your own parochial preferences. So much for the truth. Now you've kinda disfigured your science another way, by turning it into a shrine for the purpose of mounting your private beliefs there, rather than a quest using reason, observations and the truth to unveil the secret mysteries of the universe. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 09:20, 3 March 2020 (EST)
contradicting the bible is a relative term; God's first command to man was to go into the Earth and subdue it, i.e. use your intellect. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:46, 3 March 2020 (EST)
Sometimes its not even the research that's the problem, but it's (conveniently?) packaged in a way that you'll see a lot damaging ideas from their followers. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 13:41, 3 March 2020 (EST)
Let me ask this: In the old days leftists would burn a cross on your lawn if you used paper bags rather than 'environmentally friendly' plastic bags to 'save the rain forest'; now, due to 'environmental science' the government won't let us use plastic bags and we're back to murdering trees, while the government simultaneously gives away free plastic dope syringes to drug addicts who toss dirty needles in public parks and on beaches where 5 and 6 year-old children get stabbed and infected with AIDS. Now I realize this is all part of a concerted effort to get taxpayer supported shoot-up lounges and opium dens, but is there really 'science' behind all this? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:31, 3 March 2020 (EST)
You go, Rob. It's called the science of distancing myself from the non-elite mob using moral proclamations and spouting a new moral proclamation to distract if the old ones go out of control, crash and burn. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 11:10, 4 March 2020 (EST)

Pete Buttigieg drops out

I hope this isn't fake news, but Pete Buttigieg apparently felt too marginalized running a moderate liberal candidacy and dropped out of the race! This will show Democratic voters they are being too liberal and cause them to come to their senses. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 19:05, 1 March 2020 (EST)

Yah, right, two days before Super Tuesday voting. Buttigieg was the only threat to the DNC's Stop Bernie campaign, being that he has actually won delegates so far. He was promised a cabinet post in the Biden administration, perhaps Secretary of Veteran's Affairs or Housing, or his pick of something else. He's not really VP material, given African Americans' disdain for him. All this proves is he's a team player on Team DNC (unlike his childhood idol, Bernie Sanders), and not an egoist. A smart move for a budding politician with his future before him. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:29, 1 March 2020 (EST)
With Biden's SC win, Biden is now the popular vote leader, despite trailing in delegates; this frees up Buttigieg's Iowa delegates.
What you are witnessing is the DNC establishment behind the scene's at work in real time. They owe Bootyfudge a favor now. Remember, Bootyfudge has one foot in the Sanders camp by his past upbringing. There has been since 2016 competition to take over Sanders' national organization - volunteers and donor data base - that Sanders built up. Warren staying in poses a challenge to Sanders, whereas by subterfuge the DNC is making a play for Buttigieg to become heir and return these renegades to the Democrat fold. And Bootyfudge may have his own ideas what to do with the Sanders organization in the future, given that he's faced the reality that he is not to be the 2020 nominee. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:45, 1 March 2020 (EST)
Klo-butcher will be out by Wednesday. Warren after Sanders manhandles her in Massachusetts. Operation Bloomberg was a failure; if you will recall, Bloomy said, when he dropped out in 2019, that he'd only get back in if Biden's behavior with women caused Biden to drop out. Bloomy got in when Ukrainegate crashed Biden's polls, but Biden didn't drop out. Operation Bloomberg was a failure cause they didn't abide by the original script. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:55, 1 March 2020 (EST)
Pete Buttigieg was always a joke/vanity candidate. Just a protest vote against Mike Pence at best. He never had a chance at winning.Conservative (talk) 07:03, 2 March 2020 (EST)
He's looking to the future. I'm not sure if he could win statewide in Indiana as governor or the Senate, but he is poised to take over the Sanders Antifa/Bernie Bros, LGBT and socialist movement in the United States. Bernie, Warren, Pelosi, and Maxine Waters can't live forever. He's well positioned for a national leadership role. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:02, 2 March 2020 (EST)

The Revolution is now

Black Lives Matter goons intimidate Amy Klobuchar out of the race. [1] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:29, 2 March 2020 (EST)

The prosecution of Myon Burrell was botched and she deserves being protested.[2]
But as a U.S. Senator, she is probably better than the perv she replaced (Al Franken).Conservative (talk) 10:31, 3 March 2020 (EST)
So the question is, Who controls Black Lives Matter, the DNC establishment or the socialist revolutionaries? This incident, like the one Hillary faced in 2016, shows it's likely the socialist revolutionaries (same as Antifa/Bernie Bros brownshirts). Now, you will recall, BLM answered to Obama and Sharpton. However Obama has already pledged to come out for the establishment against Sanders back in November.
Meanwhile, Chris Matthews is said to have been canned by MSNBC for criticizing socialism (comparing Sanders win to the Fall of France, he'd be the first one executed in Central Park, etc). Chris Matthews obviously was showing signs of dementia with his own Bidenesque gaffes ("they all look alike" in reference to Sen. Tim Scott). Beto and Buttplug's endorsement of Biden shows a more covert socialist takeover of the DNC establishment rather than Bernie's open rebellion. Granpappy Biden can't live for ever. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:15, 3 March 2020 (EST)

Coronavirus issue overblown

About 647,000 Americans die from heart disease each year — that's 1 in every 4 deaths. ... This includes the cost of health care services, medicines, and lost productivity due to death.[3]

In 2019, an estimated 606,880 people will die of cancer in the United States. Smoking, dietary habits and excess weight play a big role in the development of cancer.

America's dietary habits and lack of exercise will kill off far more people than the coronavirus ever will.

And if the average person exercises and eat right (which helps creates a healthy immune system), their chance of dying from the coronavirus is low.Conservative (talk) 07:29, 2 March 2020 (EST)

In the midst of a national panic that may impact the 2020 election, I'm not sure whataboutism is the way to educate the public. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:58, 2 March 2020 (EST)
Only 200 new cases in all of China yesterday! It could be eradicated in as little as two weeks. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 14:31, 2 March 2020 (EST)
The problem is, China has thoroughly discredited itself in management of the crisis. From the beginning, no one believed there were 10,000 infections. The Lancet said the figure was likely 10 times higher. Translated, if they report 80,000 infections, the likely figure is 800,000. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:15, 2 March 2020 (EST)
As much as I hate the oppression of a communist dictatorship, I've got nothing against their eventual response to the Coronavirus outbreak. They wouldn't publish recovery statistics if they weren't true. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 17:43, 2 March 2020 (EST)
Scientifically speaking, the alleged recovery stats are only measured against those tested and treated. The real number of infections is unknown and much higher. And here in the U.S., one case was tested and cleared twice yet still spread the virus. And again, here in the U.S. there is not enough tests kits or people trained how to use them, though production of kits is going pedal-to-the-metal as I understand, and pro'ly won't quit til we manufacture about 7 billion of 'em (does anyone else on the planet have the willingness to do that, let alone demand payment for them?) RobSDe Plorabus Unum 21:38, 2 March 2020 (EST)
The Chinese have an ancient oracular saying:
Shock comes—oh, oh!
Laughing words—ha ha!
The shock terrifies for a hundred miles,
And he does not let fall the sacrificial spoon and chalice.
We may be looking back on this and laugh at so much commotion over what is essentially the flu. I see it as more like a virus-chaser episode, like that TV show Storm Chasers, which may not be a bad thing.
VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 07:54, 3 March 2020 (EST)
Yep. In a few months the U.S. federal government will destroy the anti-vaxxer movement when they require all school children to be injected with the coronavirus (more specifically, the coronavirus vaccine). The "search" for a vaccine means the stuff has to be reproduced in a laboratory in bulk and 7 billion doses - measured out for age and body weight - produced. Then, in a few years, we'll have personal injury lawyers advertising on TV to sue manufacturers of the vaccine. It truly is comical. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:31, 3 March 2020 (EST)

Burying the dead in Iran - it looks like they are re-using the bed sheets. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 00:15, 8 March 2020 (EST)

"Women's history month" or rather PROGRESSIVE women's history month

Conservative women need not apply -leftists who control the cultural narrative. Just look at which women the lamestream media will promote this month. Shobson20 (talk) 21:17, 2 March 2020 (EST)

When will we have transgender history month? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 21:34, 2 March 2020 (EST)
Progressives just pretend that transgenders are what they "identify" as. They will probably just lump in MTFs and call them "women." Shobson20 (talk) 21:47, 2 March 2020 (EST)

Biden time

With Buttigieg and Klobuchar dropping out, the betting odds have shifted dramatically in Biden's favor. He now has a 59 percent chance of winning the nomination compared to 37 percent for Sanders. The betting markets for presidential candidates are probably not that large. Although only 28 percent of the vote has been counted, CNN has already proclaimed Biden the winner in Virginia. Even if it's all a manipulation by rich donors terrified of Bernie's anti-billionaire shtick, Electable Joe can savor being the front runner again for a few hours. This is a very amusing tweet about, you know, that thing he does. PeterKa (talk) 19:43, 3 March 2020 (EST)

Pfft. Tonight is all about California and Texas, which are likely Bernie wins and half the delegate count. Bloomy is siphoning off delegates from Biden, and Warren delegates count toward a Bernie/Warren ticket.
When it's all done, Bernie is likely to win both the popular vote and the delegate count. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 21:33, 3 March 2020 (EST)
There's a 60 percent chance that no one arrives in Milwaukee with the 1,991 delegates needed to get the nomination on the first ballot, according to Five Thirty Eight. Then it goes to a second ballot and the supers can vote. It's now 395 delegates for Biden, 317 for Sanders, 28 for Bloomberg, 28 for Warren, and 26 for Buttigieg.[4] Trump seems to be worried about Biden, but not Sanders. But isn't a divided party the ideal outcome? The People's Party will hold its convention in Milwaukee right after the Democrats. If Sanders doesn't get the Democratic nomination, he can just stroll over to there and get their nomination. PeterKa (talk) 00:41, 4 March 2020 (EST)
As of now it looks like the TX Dems in Harris County are trying to steal the election (at 11:06 CST, specifically) from Sanders, but a likely outcome would be a close division of delegates; in CA, Sanders is is likely to win the lions share as well as a popular vote. A big win there can offset Biden's gains in the east and south. Even though Sanders could eventually win the day (in a few days) it doesn't offset the momentum the media is giving to Biden. Sanders people have been here before....they let Democrats steal it 2016; in the general some voted for Trump and some sat home, yet like a battered spouse, they returned for more in 2020. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:02, 4 March 2020 (EST)
In TX, at 11:03 CST Biden trailed Sanders by about 1,800 votes, a gap steadily narrowed since the polls closed. Once network television terminated their broadcasts, by 11:06 Biden was up 30,000 votes. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:12, 4 March 2020 (EST)
As pf this moment, 12:16 CST, Politico has Sanders and Biden tied with 49 delegates each, despite Biden maintaining his 30,000 popular vote total. When Harris county added 30,000 votes, it was Sander 39, Biden 38. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:20, 4 March 2020 (EST)
Minnesota perhaps gives the best picture of the chaos of the past few days; if you add Sanders and Warren together, you get Biden 38% Sanders/Warren 43%; if you add Biden/Bloomy you get 46% and Sanders/Warren/Buttigieg 44%; Amy got 5.5%, which a good portion could have been added to Warren. I suspect the Democrat party nationwide looks something like this. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:38, 4 March 2020 (EST)
They just called California for Sanders. California has 415 delegates, more than all the delegates Biden has earned so far this year. Biden, your time has come and gone once again. PeterKa (talk) 04:35, 4 March 2020 (EST)
What if....Bernie dropped out now and threw his support to Warren? That would shake things up. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 10:33, 4 March 2020 (EST)
Bernie is as bad as Klobuchar in the way he self-centeredly uses his staff as scapegoats. It would never happen. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 04:55, 6 March 2020 (EST)
Biden took Texas. The slingshot effect apparently worked. Should I cash out of my futures investment that Biden doesn't get the nomination? VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 11:28, 4 March 2020 (EST)
It's still difficult to see how Democrats would nominate a mentally incapacitated individual. Biden would have to run the White House as a dictator cause he's incapable of being involved in the details of policy. He'd have to mumble off directives, and his staff would have to try and interpret them as best they could (which will create some internal strife on interpretation). But the only way he could involve himself in governance would be by dictating directives. Why are Democrats suddenly so gung-ho about a dictatorship? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:53, 4 March 2020 (EST)
I can't imagine. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 11:57, 4 March 2020 (EST)
As Trey Gowdy said, it's like watching a chain smoker fill his gas tank. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:53, 4 March 2020 (EST)

I underestimated Joe Biden's likeability and the Black population's loyalty to Biden. It came down to Bernie's anger vs. Biden's likeability. Likeability usually wins in American politics and this was the case for Super Tuesday.

The progressive Cenk Uygur (Young Turks), who is a Bernie Sanders fan, is angry about Biden's Super Tuesday victory. He is angry that the mainstream doesn't point out Biden's mental decline and does not call out Biden's lies (Biden lying about being arrested with Nelson Mandela, etc.).[5] Cenk Uyger says there is going to be trench warfare between Democrat "moderates" and Democrat progressives/leftists. He also says the mainstream press is not fair towards Bernie Sanders.

Cenk Uyger says Biden is not going to win against Trump due to his mental decline and due to his lies being called out by the right.Conservative (talk) 12:07, 4 March 2020 (EST)

Wow! If Elizabeth Warren wasn’t in the race, Bernie Sanders would have EASILY won Massachusetts, Minnesota and Texas, not to mention various other states. Our modern day Pocahontas won’t go down in history as a winner, but she may very well go down as the all time great SPOILER!—President Donald J. Trump
Bloomberg took some of Biden's support away. Maybe it was a wash.
Warren may stay in. Maybe Bernie Sanders did allude to a women's greater difficulty in winning the presidency, and she is mad at Bernie and is purposefully making it harder on him by staying in the race. Never underestimate the anger and unforgiveness of a progressive/leftist.Conservative (talk) 13:07, 4 March 2020 (EST)
Dems right now are thinking a Biden/Hillary ticket is unstoppable; everyone knows Biden isn't likely to survive much past inauguration day, and Hillary is, after all, one of the largest vote getters of all time.
Basically, reactionary liberals want to go back to the bad old days of the Obama administration. So the question revolves around how many middle aged whites, age 55+ that voted for Obama twice (remember Obama lost 3 million of them in 2012) can Biden/Hillary pull back, and will it be enough to offset those who permanently defected, as well as Black & Hispanic Trump supporters, and younger age whites who support Trump.
Ultimately it comes down to this - the Trump voter base has showed steady expansion over 4 years, whereas the Democrat voter base has shown steady erosion. The DNC's intervention to Stop Bernie is intended to stop the erosion.
Here's their dream - Biden kick's the bucket, Hillary becomes president, and Warren Secretary of State. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:12, 4 March 2020 (EST)
When you are playing poker, you have to play the cards that are dealt you. Unfortunately for the Democrats, an elderly Joe Biden with mental decline is the best card in their hand. Nancy Pelosi is showing mental decline too. I don't agree with Bernie Sanders, but he is still mentally sharp.Conservative (talk) 13:19, 4 March 2020 (EST)
Absolutely right. So we can conclude the Democrat plurality that dominates right now is based wholey on fear - fear of Sanders and fear of Trump. No positive confidence in the future. And they will risk everything on a corrupt, decrepit old man who isn't likely to make it to election day with his mind or physical health intact. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:27, 4 March 2020 (EST)
If Biden picks Hillary as a running mate, he might as well start filling out his organ donor card. There are quite a few Hillary Clinton supporters who don't like to wait. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 13:42, 4 March 2020 (EST)
For the record, Biden is leading Bernie in the odds 81% to 8%. Clinton is third at 3%. Maybe I underestimated Democrats' tendency to swarm, and Biden will accept the presidency due to being the overwhelming favorite. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 04:50, 6 March 2020 (EST)

Phoenix debate

Sunday, March 15, 2020, Warren, Biden and Sanders will square off again. This will be Bernie's last chance to take swings at Biden in hopes he can show the country Biden has a glass jaw. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 14:33, 4 March 2020 (EST)

Gabbard qualifies, having won 1 delegate last night. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:36, 4 March 2020 (EST)
Maybe the reason why Warren is staying in is to have Sanders/Warren gang up on Biden. Maybe she will drop out after the debate.Conservative (talk) 15:45, 4 March 2020 (EST)
Here is Elizabeth Warren's Super Tuesday performance. :)Conservative (talk) 16:36, 4 March 2020 (EST)
There's probably many reasons she can cite for staying in. I'd guess among those at the top are (1) she's a genuine feminist who thinks, like Hillary, there is actually a "women's vote" (there may be; but it totals maybe 5-6%, and is offset by 40-50% of women who think feminists are crazy and are comfortable with traditional women's gender roles, and may even be openly hostile to feminism); and (2) age of Bernie and Biden. She's hoping Bernie will have a heart attack or Biden another brain aneurysm (he's had two already). RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:58, 4 March 2020 (EST)
The mainstream media is currently filled with mournful stories on Elizabeth Warren, that martyr to sexism. I take it that she is just about to drop out. She lied about being a woman of color, lied about being fired for being pregnant, lied about her son's private education, etc. Obama used to lie about being a victim of discrimination as well. The white grandmother who brought him up gets accused of being a racist in his memoirs. To get liberal votes, it's important to have stories like these. Real discrimination must be dying if they need to invent it. PeterKa (talk) 04:20, 5 March 2020 (EST)
We can't end racism, sexism, and bigotry - too many careers and jobs are at stake. What would happen to all those journalists, lawyers, and bureaucrats who built careers fighting bigotry? What would we do with all the human rights commissions in every state and police oversight boards in every city? That's why they branched out into homosexual rights and transgender rights in recent years. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 09:57, 5 March 2020 (EST)
The U.S. Coronavirus cases are rising because we belong to the secondary population to the Chinese. While the Chinese may be cured in two weeks, even I don't think that will happen in the United States. Nobody may show up to the Nevada Phoenix debates. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 06:17, 6 March 2020 (EST)
Endlessly prattling on about race/gender solves little. Improving the lives of blacks via prison reform and economic development in black communities via tax breaks makes far more progress. At the end of the day, people ask, "What have you done for us?". Black Democrats are leaving the party because Democrats give lip service while Donald Trump has been taking concrete actions to improve their lives.Conservative (talk) 12:57, 6 March 2020 (EST)

Super Tuesday turnout higher than 2016

Democrats 29 and above are all fired up to vote for Biden. Younger Dems prefer Bernie, but can't be bothered to show up at the polls, according to this Newsweek article. How can anyone get excited about Biden being president? He slurs his speech now way more than he did at the beginning of the campaign just a few month ago. At this rate, he won't be able to complete a sentence by the time he debates Trump. If he is elected, he will be 78 on the day he is sworn in. Reagan was 77 when he left office. As Tucker Carlson says, "Running him for president is like putting a dress on a dog. It's just wrong." I guess it will happen to us all eventually, but hopefully not in such a public way. PeterKa (talk) 00:44, 5 March 2020 (EST)

What if he's extradited to Ukraine before the convention? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:09, 5 March 2020 (EST)
Democrats 29 and above are excited to vote for Biden because he is a member of their tribe and he comes across as likeable. Also, voting for Biden means a vote against Trump.
Once you put yourself in a Democrat cocoon and shut out segments of reality that are contrary to it, it is much easier to be excited about voting for Biden. Many people make certain decisions in their teenage/20s years based on their family/friends/teachers influences and never reexamine their views. Conservative (talk) 07:27, 5 March 2020 (EST)
Every day Biden campaigns, the closer he becomes to being the Chauncy Gardener of the 2020s. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 17:57, 6 March 2020 (EST)
Yes, I almost forgot. "I do believe our one and only chance to hang onto the presidency is Chauncy Gardner. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 02:56, 7 March 2020 (EST)

Main page item complete wrong on math - should be removed

Your mainpage item “Bloomberg spent $500 million on ads. The U.S. population is 327 million. He could have given each American $1 million and still have money left over.” is embarrassingly wrong. The math doesn't work. Imagine 500 stacks of 1 million dollars. That equals 500 million. So how many people is Bloomburg able to give a million dollars to? JohnSelway (talk) 01:25, 7 March 2020 (EST)

I fixed it. Conservative (talk) 01:45, 7 March 2020 (EST)
Sorry, I cited MSNBC & NYT without editorial comment. They are not called fake news for nuthin'. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 02:43, 7 March 2020 (EST)
It's $1.52 per U.S. citizen. $500 million divided 1.8 million votes is $360 per vote. PeterKa (talk) 06:53, 8 March 2020 (EDT)
Was that before or after MSNBC, WaPo, & NYT factcheckers cleared the content? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:58, 8 March 2020 (EDT)

Where is Biden's brain?

Despite Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Bloomberg, and Warren all dropping out, Bernie remains at 29 percent in national polls, which is pretty much where he was before Nevada.[6] Meanwhile, Biden has surged to 39 percent. Bernie is a guy you either like or don't like, not anyone's second choice, apparently. The oddsmakers say Biden's chance of winning is 84 percent compared to 12 percent for Bernie.[7] The delegate count is 638 Biden to 563 for Sanders. In short, Biden has clinched the nomination.
That's an astonishing turnaround since February 22, when Bernie won a thumping victory in the Nevada caucus. Sadly, Electable Joe is now mentally a vegetable, as Jimmy Dore shows here. He hasn't been the sharpest knife in the drawer in a long time, as Dore shows here. He was already a doofus in 1987 when he plagiarized a Neil Kinnock speech and started telling audiences about his coal mining ancestors, as if he actually was Kinnock. "Biden’s father had not been a coal miner in Wales but a car dealer in Wilmington," as the Washington Examiner puts it. That was before he had brain surgery and two aneurysms in 1988. If he is elected, we will need to activate the 25th Amendment by inauguration.
The left has attacked every Republican president as an idiot for a long time now. But the Republican Party has yet to nominate anyone as dumb as Biden. I'm waiting for the mainstream media to start producing inspiring stories about how the mentally challenged have risen to the demands of leadership. PeterKa (talk) 04:27, 7 March 2020 (EST)

Once the Democratic party passed the rubicon of embracing the sexual revolution and abortion, it began down the slippery slope of accepting more and more of the unacceptable. And now, here we are. They are knowing trying to elect someone who is mentally incapable of being a good president because he has name recognition and is likeable to the Democrat electorate and possibly the electorate at large.
However, once Biden is on the more grueling schedule of a presidential race against Trump, the gaffes will come more frequently. And the GOP will step up its various line of attacks - including Biden is mentally unfit to be president. For now, the GOP will probably wait to see what Bernie does in terms of attacks before they scale things up.
The whole thing is sad. Maybe many of the more competent Democrats are waiting until 2024 because they believe Trump will probably be reelected in 2020. And there is the fact that a lot of smart and talented people don't want the hassle of being president. For years Trump stood on the sidelines until he felt he had to (That is what he indicates). Becoming president now means that you will be disliked/hated by a large segment of the American populace.Conservative (talk) 07:46, 7 March 2020 (EST)
It's a reactionary effort to rebuild the Obama coalition. Nihilism is the ultimate goal of the Left, which was achieved under Obama. Once it is achieved, the next unplanned step is totalitarianism to reassemble the coalition and keep it in line (witness the transition from Lenin to Stalin). RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:29, 7 March 2020 (EST)

Schumer's preoccupation

"I know Judge Roberts loves the law—I'm not sure he loves the American people." —Howard Dean, Democrat (September 2005).

"I know Chucky Schumer loves to intervene to save Chinese-Americans from the wild religious taboos of fly-over Americans—the ones that make those fly-over Americans target for assault all members of a particular nationality, if some members of that nation are turned back from the American mainland in order to prevent a dangerous negative outcome—I'm not sure he loves the American people. But that's big of you, Chucky." —VargasMilan (March 2020).

There were also a group of protesters in California demonstrating to protect Chinese-Americans and nationals from non-Chinese-Americans rising up to the destroy them as well—the hair-trigger tempers of those same non-Chinese-Americans of course having been ignited by Trump blocking flights from China to prevent the spread of the coronavirus. Talk about bravery! I heard one crazed conservative actually say to a protester who was a person of Chinese origin: "If you're a Chinese national of today, there's a greater chance that you're carrying that deadly virus." Very fortunately, that person of Chinese origin was able to quickly find relief from the agony of bearing that conservative's abuse. "Officer! Officer!" he cried. "This man is trying to kill me!"

By the way, this harrowing threat being protested against has to exist, because only a common experience of it could have caused those protesters to come together to make their noble statement, not just a desire to build up the separation between identity groups and conservatives and/or to make America look bad. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 09:32, 7 March 2020 (EST)

Chuck Schumer will soon see that a new conservative age is on the horizon. No matter what antics he engages in Trump will be reelected. And Trump will successfully appointment 1-2 more SCOTUS judges.
In addition, religious conservatives are the ones having children and their children will be conservative voters.Conservative (talk) 08:30, 8 March 2020 (EDT)

Unexpectedly, nobody hurts you more than you hurt yourself

I look at the new homosexual political coalition embodied in the abbreviation LGBT and their rainbow flag and really wonder at how bad a job they do, even after the Pulse nightclub atrocity, at discerning and conveying what dangers, among various potential threats, are posed to the health, safety and well-being of their community. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 10:21, 7 March 2020 (EST)

Chinese media accuses the US of being behind the coronavirus pandemic

Chinese media is now accusing the US of being behind the coronavirus pandemic.[8]

While it is easy to dismiss this accusation as an absurd conspiracy theory designed to quell growing anti-government sentiment, I believe the theory does deserve some consideration. For example, is it really coincidental that China, Iran, and Italy are among the most badly hit by the virus?[9] China and Iran are both top enemies of the Deep State, while Italy recently signed onto the One Belt One Road initiative and Venice is supposed to be a critical part of the OBOR trade route.[10][11]

Very suspicious if you ask me.--Geopolitician (talk) 12:10, 8 March 2020 (EDT)

I dunno; Xi Jinping seems to be Davos' boy. [12] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:28, 8 March 2020 (EDT)
So what? That doesn't mean everybody in the Deep State likes him. The CIA and the neocons certainly don't.--Geopolitician (talk) 12:52, 8 March 2020 (EDT)
Deep State is divided between national security professionals and Obama punk-@zz wannabes. Oh, then there are career Democrat bureaucrats not necessarily in national security affairs who also are beholden to Democrat legislators giving them payraises; while these career civil servants may not be in national security positions, they still can facilitate subversion of the capitalist and democratic system. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:11, 9 March 2020 (EDT)

Bannon

We need to talk about him. What... is... this!? --Geopolitician (talk) 01:20, 9 March 2020 (EDT)

So? Ask Bannon.
I have my own theory: Virginia Guiffre met Epstein while working at Mar-E-Lago when she was 15. After Epstein plead guilty to sex charges, Trump booted Epstein out. Guiffre's lawyer then said that Trump was the only person willing to assist Guiffre and other victims in the case.
After Trump was elected, the commie rag Politico published this innuendo in an attempt, given Politico's record, to defame Trump. I would suggest Bannon may have gone to Epstein to discuss setting the record straight.
Until Bannon speaks, its just DNC oppo garbage. I'm gonna revert the innuendo on Bannon's page until or unless you provide more factual context. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:36, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
The story actually originates with Infowars, at a time that Robert Mueller, who protected Jeffrey Epstein as an FBI informant when Trump Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta was trying to prosecute Epstein. was still on his witchhunt. With the ongoing litigation brought by Guiffre that led to Epstein's arrest 7 months later, I suggest they may have had much to talk about. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:51, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
Oh, there is much to talk about alright. And Bannon still hasn't publicly addressed this so many months later. He's lucky this story hasn't gotten more attention, because otherwise he would be a pariah among the rest of the movement right now.
Which is why I would rather have that "innuendo" put back on that page. Because it's not an innuendo. This is very serious, and it needs to be addressed.--Geopolitician (talk) 13:11, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
On a side note, I found out about Bannon's meeting from Lee Stranahan, a former Breitbart reporter who left the site in early 2017. If you look at his Twitter account, he has had very interesting things to say about Bannon since he left. I'm not gonna list all the details, but to summarize, he says that Bannon is a total fraud; he pretends to be a nationalist populist in public, but is actually a highly corrupt opportunist who is willing to do anything to hijack the Trump movement and mold it according to his own worldview. --Geopolitician (talk) 13:21, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
Ok, so you got two sources, three actually. (1) A guy on Epstein's payroll, Epstein's butler. (2) Infowars, a certified fake news site; (3) RT, Putin propaganda. You must be working for the DNC. That's all I can conclude. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:03, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
Now you're straight-up lying about my sources.
  1. 1) I did not cite Infowars. You did.
  2. 2) The Newsmax report that I did cite was published nearly two months before the Infowars article that you cited. In addition, the interview that Newsmax cited did not come from Infowars. It actually came from a French website called FranceInfo, which is a media outlet owned by the French government.
  3. 3) Lee Stranahan does not work for RT. He actually works for Sputnik. Yes, that site is also owned by the Russian government, but it's not RT.
  4. 4)Many of RT's stories are closer to the truth than what's reported by any of the major US media outlets, including FOX.
And on a side note, I find it hilarious that you're accusing me of working for the DNC, when I have cited exactly zero pro-DNC sources. Lee Stranahan may be anti-Trump now, but he was pro-Trump until Trump started bringing neocons into his administration. And Stranahan supports Tulsi Gabbard, who the DNC hates more than even Bernie Sanders!--Geopolitician (talk) 17:28, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
Ok. We can establish basic facts. Epstein's butler in France told a French news organization sometime in late 2018 that Bannon visited Epstien's Paris residence. This is what is known as 'uncorroborated'. The first English language reporting of these uncorroborated rumors in America was by InfoWars in December 2018. Other organizations were lax, such as Briebart, Hollywood scandal rags, and few others, and did not pick up the InfoWars second hand reporting until about May 2019, nearly 6 months later. This was likely in conjunction with the impending conclusion of the Guiffre lawsuit which was ongoing for nearly a decade. In May 2019, most Americans still never heard of Jeffrey Epstein. And not until Guiffre won her suit, was Epstein arrested two days later.
Your characterization of the relationship between RT & Sputnik is minute. The point still stand: InfoWars, Sputnik, RT, and Stranahan are Putin propaganda, per WaPo, NYT, NPR, DNC, etc. etc etc. etc.
Newsmax is irrelevant from the entire episode, being so far removed in space and time from an original uncorroborated rumor published in French, allegedly spoken by an Epstein flunky. And no, it's not hilarious. Your logic, thinking, and actions are all quite consistent with being a DNC operative. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:34, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Are your sure they are propaganda? Or is it our own media that is the real propaganda?--Geopolitician (talk) 20:19, 12 March 2020 (EDT)

Wuhan coronavirus epidemic will peak soon

This belongs on MPR: "Coronavirus going to hit its peak and start falling sooner than you think." In China, the infection rate has been dropping for a month now. It was once 4,000 a day. Now it's 200. Buy some of those stocks that tumbled on coronavirus fears. They will go back up soon. Don't bother with masks. They don't work. Like the flu, coronavirus is too infectious to be contained with quarantines and the like. We'll just have to tough it out. Keeping your hands clean is certainly a good idea, coronavirus or no. The Philippines and Vietnam have very few cases, even though both countries have plenty of contact with China. In Vietnam, almost all the cases are in the North, which, unlike the South, has winter now. So it seems that warm weather prevents the virus from spreading. PeterKa (talk) 07:41, 9 March 2020 (EDT)

I scooped the New York Post, whom Peter Ka cited, here back on March 2. It should be 90-95% [recovered among the infected that didn't die in China] by the two weeks I predicted it would end on. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 11:03, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
And I don't want to get in a fight with RobS again, but the daily new infection rate is down to 40, not 200. Cancelled flights out of China I assume are costing China a LOT of money, but it would be even worse if the Chinese government were lying about the still-infected and had them on planes again to places where outbreaks show up shortly afterwards. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 11:54, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
What does this mean? It means the Corona virus must have started in a place with unnaturally high concentrations, not that it was or is highly lethal in ordinary human transmissions, which further means it was being cultivated in large quantities. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 13:24, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
Recently, a U.S. federal government expert stated it was between 0.6 to 6 times more lethal than the ordinary flu. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 14:19, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
I have to protest. Telling us what is going to happen in the future is not MPR news. It's just like saying Biden was washed up before Super Tuesday. How did that work out? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:06, 9 March 2020 (EDT)
I was the first and only person to protest that, so I'm "immune" from that criticism. Here's one of the Democrats' dirty little secrets as their elites try to exploit the Corona virus politically: The average age of the Italians who succumbed to the disease is 81. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 09:13, 10 March 2020 (EDT)
FYI: The recovery amount of those who've survived in China is 77%. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 09:50, 10 March 2020 (EDT)
Korea has comprehensive testing for the Wuhan virus and a mortality rate of 0.6 percent.[13] Two percent mortality, as was reported earlier, is an artifact of who gets tested. PeterKa (talk) 10:17, 10 March 2020 (EDT)
Okay, that's 3.6 times more lethal than the flu. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 11:24, 10 March 2020 (EDT)
FYI: The recovery amount of those who've survived in mainland China is 79%. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 21:30, 10 March 2020 (EDT)
As of 7am Chinese time (it's 3pm there now) for the past 24 hours, the recovered among those who've survived has risen to 81%. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 04:32, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Someone's got to pay for this: 4,660 deaths worldwide, making more fatalities than the 9/11 massacre in China alone. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 04:39, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
The coronavirus has not peaked. Hopefully, it ebbs during spring. The Spanish flu of 1918 lasted 3 years. America now has a bigger aged population and there are more people overweight (which suppresses the immune system). There are also a higher percentage of immigrants and greater plane travel which can feed the pandemic into the USA. Furthermore, Americans are a very independent people and will put up greater resistance to people in certain geographic areas being quarantined. And the USA has an interstate highway system which makes travel easy. On the other hand, medicine is more advanced than it was in 1918.
This is probably going to be a make or break issue in terms of Trump being reelected.Conservative (talk) 06:13, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
The peak in China occured on February 16. There was no second residual peak, thankfully. I think I've made that clear, so I'll move on to the rest of the world. Over March 9th to the 11th, the secondary population took a massive hit: there was a jump of 1,171 new net infections in the United States, 2,605 new net infections in Italy and 7,656 worldwide. Most of the existing infections are now outside of China (70%). VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 07:36, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Trump needed to combine Churchill and FDR in his speech last night, "Let us therefore brace ourselves....the only thing we have to fear is, fear itself." Not sure if he pulled it off. Somewhat of a missed opportunity. But I don't see critics raging over it. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 09:21, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
March 12, 2020 preliminary update: 6,377 net new infections worldwide, including 2,249 net new infections in Italy, 408 net new infections in the United States, 831 in Spain and 130 in the United Kingdom. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 21:34, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
I'm glad I said "preliminary"—Rob's source says, far from growing faster than ever, the net new infection rate is starting to crest, and yes, reach a peak. Those figures above are probably wrong, despite my having used two sources, and when I get a chance I will correct them. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 13:30, 13 March 2020 (EDT)
Why does Italy have so many corona virus infections? It seems that they let in 100,000 immigrants from Wuhan/Wenzhou! VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 13:45, 13 March 2020 (EDT)
Since the past day, Italy, Spain and the U.K. have stopped reporting their contagion statistics, so we'll have to wait to find out. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 17:33, 13 March 2020 (EDT)
Preliminary update, three-day increases, March 11-13, 2020, each day beginning at about midnight GMT: Worldwide 15,562 net new infected; Italy 4,365 net new infected; Spain 2,866; U.S. 681; U.K. 340. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 20:55, 13 March 2020 (EDT)

A chain is as strong as its weakest link. The USA has 50 states - each with a lot of autonomy. Taiwan and Singapore have stronger central governments and are less individualist cultures. And they have handled the coronavirus well. Singapore “has historically had very strong epidemiological surveillance.”[14]

Unfortunately, California and New York have poor state governments and they both have the very big cities of New York City and Los Angeles. New York State and California both have over 300 cases of coronavirus.Conservative (talk) 10:42, 12 March 2020 (EDT)

The elderly are more at risk for coronavirus. And the United States with its individualistic culture is largely dependent on self-quarantine.
The baby boomers have a reputation for being narcissistic and they make up a large portion of the elderly. To be reliant on an elderly population, many of whom are narcissistic baby boomers, to engage in self-quarantine, is not a good situation to be in.Conservative (talk) 10:57, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
It could be a worse situation in the United States when it comes to the coronavirus pandemic.
Trump did institute the travel ban from China early. And recently Trump put a temporary ban on non-UK European country citizens from entering into the USA. And the USA is not a poor country and has more resources at its disposal to fight the pandemic.
To beat this pandemic, it will require controlling the flow of the coronavirus infected people into the USA and mitigating/containing the growth of coronavirus cases within the USA.Conservative (talk) 11:05, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Conservapedia's former editor User:TheAmericanRedoubt (TAR) is a rugged individualist and survivalist. No doubt he is in his well-stocked and well-defended doomsday bunker in a rural area in the state of Idaho where there are no known cases of coronavirus!Conservative (talk) 11:24, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
The UK has 456 cases of coronavirus patients.[15] I know the USA has a special relationship with the UK, but Trump should extend the travel ban to the UK as well.Conservative (talk) 11:46, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
"This ad brought to you by, The Patriot Gold Group." RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:20, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Beware: Rob's "clearinghouse" update website that he linked to is showing strange data that was switched on and off, and which doesn't agree with a different corona virus update website. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 12:40, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
A reader identified the problem: Mainland China is tallied twice. That's a very easy fix, but the data pertaining to today will remain with that inaccuracy until the webmaster comes back. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 14:49, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Is that the WuFlu site or the Johns Hopkins site?
I've given up checking those numbers daily and rely on other sources to interpret the data. Peak Prosperity and NTD on Youtube give very good daily reports, as does Tyler Durden, who interestingly was banned from Twiiter for doing so. Epoch Times, also. It's hard to keep up with just those four sources, and there is much overlap. I'm not really bothering with any other sources on coronavirus. There's just way too much noise right now which is an extremely dangerous circumstance given conditions. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:57, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
In times like these, it's best to remain silent sometimes rather than add to the noise. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:06, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
It's the covid19info.live site. But since you're not going anymore, for anyone else, note that they fixed the problem (for now). VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 15:43, 12 March 2020 (EDT)

Bioweapon revisited

Wuhan coronavirus? How do we know for sure it's Wuhan, while the Deep State continues to run amok? Can we put anything past the Deep State anymore?--Geopolitician (talk) 15:53, 12 March 2020 (EDT)

China has its own Deep State, the CCP. It colludes with our Deep State at Davos, represented by Stacey Abrams whom Biden just dumped from the ticket. China developed Covid 19 at the Wuhan Center for Disease Control, just across the street from the Wuhan Seafood Market. First they threw the switch for 5G on in October 31, 2019; cases were rumored in late November, the first case medically verified on December 8 and first death on December 9. The doctors who reported on the first verified cases posted on social media, and in late December plead guilty to rumormongering and disrupting social order. The Beijing regime finally admitted publicly that a full blown pandemic was occurring on January 23, 2020, and the criminal doctor who first warned the public six weeks earlier died on February 4. 800 million people expressed their condolences on Chinese social media in 24 hours after his death was announced.
How does 5G relate? While not directly a cause, its high concentrations of RF signals may weaken the immune system; and the new 5G technology certainly was used to hunt down, arrest, and quarantine rumourmongers and people disrupting social order, as well as people without masks.
Why Wuhan? Wuhan somewhat resembles Red State America, the interior flyover country, which has never embraced the values of the coastal elite.
Ok, if it really is a bioweapon intended by the global elite to reduce population, counter the War on Science, exterminate Red State America, drive Trump from office, and end the China trade war, Why was it launched in China and not the U.S. first? There is no way to contain such a powerful and fast moving virus once it's out of the lab. It won't just wipe out the interior hicks and hillbillys of China and the U.S. , but it will also solve the homeless crisis, urban crime, violence, and drug addiction in U.S. coastal cities, as well as doing wonders to exterminate 10 million Black Africans (per Bill Gates) so the Chinese can complete their seizure of Africa's natural resources.
I hope this clears up some lingering questions. We'll have anther press conference tomorrow at noon to update. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:34, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Are you allowed to speculate like that? This is too cops-and-robbers. It corrals too many out-on-a-limb outrage-fueling reasons for working together to oppose China for it not be suspect. Also, are you unaware that an article was out titled with a question mark that declared the doctor who warned the public might still be alive? And like I said below, the Chinese are mobilizing a media war against the United States to make us the scapegoats. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 18:26, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: one source says the deaths per day ratio isn't tapering out, but is (for now) larger than it has ever been. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 18:33, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
China's domestic media rhetoric should not be viewed in isolation; look at Google and Youtube search results for terms such as "China prepares for war"; the results are too numerous to list. While Western media speaks of "trade war" since Trump was elected, since October 2018 Xi Jinping and Chinese media speak directly of "war with the United States" and "a people's war with the United States", a military confrontation. You have to look at Chinese media propaganda over the past two weeks, blaming coronavirus on the United States, against the background of the Chinese government preparing the people for the past year and half for this moment. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:56, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
First off, the CCP is not a "deep state." It rules everything in China, deep or shallow.
And second, many in our own deep state want China destroyed because it has become too powerful. They are not interested in power-sharing.--Geopolitician (talk) 20:03, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
To be fair, I'd agree with the Deep State on that front, though them being powerful has absolutely nothing to do with my reasons for agreeing with the deep state on the issue of wanting China destroyed. I just want Commies destroyed, period, especially after their exterminating us Christians. I'm not even caring if China's stronger as a result of the Communists destruction at this point or not, and quite frankly, we LOST the Cold War when we failed to go all Nuremberg on all Communists in the world. We should have done what we did to the Nazis after World War II, and also made SURE it's taught that Marxists are pure evil and worse than even the Nazis. That was the only way barring God himself directly interfering to ensure Communism actually lost (and I don't just mean the USSR, but ALL of Communism, including Cuba, Nicaragua, North Korea, Red China, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, etc., etc.). Pokeria1 (talk) 21:36, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
First off, revenge is not the Christian way. But that's not my basic point. So moving on.
Second, are you familiar with Halford MacKinder's Heartland Theory? It is critical to the reason why the Deep State wants China destroyed, regardless of who's in charge. According to Heartland Theory, the core of global influence lies in the Heartland, a region in central Eurasia (which her called the "World-Island") known for its vast size, population, and wealth of resources.[16] In MacKinder's own words,
"...whoever rules the Heartland commands the World-Island; whoever rules the World-Island commands the World."[17]
The following countries have territory in this region:[18]
  • Afghanistan
  • Azerbaijan
  • Belarus
  • China
  • Iran
  • Kazakhstan
  • Kyrgyzstan
  • Mongolia
  • Russia
  • Tajikistan
  • Turkmenistan
  • Ukraine
  • Uzbekistan
So in the eyes of the Deep State, these countries must be either subjugated, or destroyed, at all costs.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:07, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Quite frankly, they can have their "world-island" as far as I'm concerned. If anything, what I want is a Christian Empire, actually, no, not even what I want, what GOD wants (he created Christianity SPECIFICALLY to ensure the world is under his thumb again. He certainly didn't treat us like Jimmy Carter did with the Shah of Iran before the Ayatollah conquered Iran, at least.). That's why He even formed Christianity. Besides, as far as revenge, what you prefer us to do? Just keep begging the Communists and other assorted groups not to hurt us and basically capitulate to them constantly, and then let ourselves be driven to extinction, or heck, do the same thing King Louis XVI and his cabinet did with Voltaire and later the Jacobins which was outright dither and pretty much get themselves and their kingdom outright slaughtered by those monsters? Heck, if anything, Christians currently have it MUCH worse than we did during the Cold War. At least during the Cold War, the Pope clearly backed those Christians being persecuted and exterminated by the Communists of various stripes. Right now, Pope Francis is literally cheerleading the Chicoms to exterminate Catholics in China. Pokeria1 (talk) 22:15, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Have you seen any of Masaman's videos? I can't get enough of this kids stuff. I don't know how he does it. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:26, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
(ec) We've seen Chinese deep staters go from a 1 child policy to a no child policy and a Hitleresque negative population growth policy to reduce carbon emissions and end the trade war. There's nothing shocking about a sober analysis of what an allegedly secretive government has spoken openly of for the past year and a half. Xi Jinping was declared president for life in March 2018, i.e. a rejection of Western political reforms and a reaction by a regime facing crisis; U.S. China trade talks broke down that Summer, and by October 28, 2018, Jinping told the people and army to prepare for war. It's awfully hard for a leader to walk back words like that.
Look closely at videos out of China today: you see a very modern, prosperous city, newly constructed highrise apartment buildings; the best in modern public trans portion. Their cities are newer and cleaner than any sh*thole Democrat run city in the Untied States, the point being, all that prosperity that has built modern China since 2002 is with money paid by American consumers for cheap Chinese labor and manufactured goods - it is not built by a vibrant and mature domestic economy. It's built by a manufacturing-export economy. China built it's economy backwards. Without foreign customers, their economy collapses. They have been in this condition going on three years now, which is why they made Xi Jinping president for life, and why he declared war on the U.S. a year and half ago.
Look at those Chinese videos of beautiful modern highrise apartments where people are quarantined and throwing their pets off their balconies - those beautiful structures and the tree-lined streets have all been built with $500 Billion per year trade deficit with the United States. It is American money, and American workers who paid for those newly constructed cities, not the internal, underdeveloped Chinese domestic economy that produced or accumulated that wealth. And when Trump cut off the gravy train, the whole society and its corrupt institutions have gone berserk. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:12, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
One other simple plain fact: the United States NEVER would have granted MFN (Most Favored Nation status) to China in 2002 if its government was still run by an unelected leader for life. When that changed in March 2018 it was a wake call, a violation of an earlier agreement, a slap in the face, and revelation of their own internal insecurities and crisis. Jinping was appointed to that position to see the crisis through to the very end, if possible in his lifetime. And the crisis isn't just their unabashed and naked return to totalitarianism, but their dependence on American benevolence. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:39, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Bingo. Gatewaypundit frames the issues: With Its Economy Collapsing, In An ACT OF ECONOMIC WAR, China Dropped the Coronavirus and Destroyed the Entire World Economy. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:05, 2 April 2020 (EDT)

Lockdown

While we're all on lockdown I'm re-reading The Diary of Frank, waiting for the Gestapo to come haul us off to a quarantine camp. Here's evidently how it may work: Despite taking all recommended precautions and isolating, since the virus survives in feces, when the toilet is flushed a plume of air comes up from the below sewage line and the virus can penetrate into the house. When someone thinks they develop symptoms, they go to website and describe the symptoms. The site tells you the location of the nearest drive-thru testing site (inquires coming in are used to pinpoint potential outbreak epicenters for placement of testing sites). Then I drive down to the local Walgreens or Walmart and give a DNA swab sample. (The swab sample is added the FBI's DNA database for matches in homicide and rape cases). If positive, you'll be asked to voluntarily or involuntarily surrender to a quarantine camp. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:39, 13 March 2020 (EDT)

Keep that DNA swab away from me! You want to record it, but I'm not some criminal, and I have rights! VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 11:16, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

Ayatollah Tabrizian, a prominent clergyman & a self-proclaimed expert in “Islamic medicine”, has published the following list on how to avoid #coronavirus:

  • Comb your hair thoroughly
  • Eat lots of apples & onions
  • Dip a cotton ball in oil & insert it in your anus [19]

I didn't think it would go on MPR or in the article, so I brought it here. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:12, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

Kamala Harris is back. Ugh!

If you want to get on Biden's good side, try calling him a racist: "Kamala Harris Looks Like A VP As She Brings Down The House At Biden’s Michigan Rally." Hillary has been pushing Harris from the beginning. I miss Bernie. Why isn't he bashing Biden for corruption, MBNA, Ukrainegate, mental decline, etc? There are so many avenues open for attack. Bernie must be getting ready to drop out and endorse Electable Joe. PeterKa (talk) 02:05, 10 March 2020 (EDT)

She's a bad candidate, but she has a good theme song:
She's smart!
She's strong!
With Ká má-lá you-can't-go-wrong-she's
Smart!
She's strong!
With Ká má-lá you-can't-go-wrong-she's...
VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 09:26, 10 March 2020 (EDT)
Bernie Sanders is a joke. The Democratic socialist millionaire who used to rail about millionaires but now rails at billionaires.
The Democrats do not get sufficient press scrutiny to keep them honest and there are too many spineless Republicans/conservatives who do not push to get them prosecuted for the acts we know that they did engage in. The USA political system needs to be reformed. There should have been rules that prevented Joe Biden from retaining his position if Hunter Biden was serving on a foreign companies board.Conservative (talk) 13:36, 10 March 2020 (EDT)

Clean and unclean animals

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16,17)
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. (Hebrews 8:13)

The Old Law had four types of ceremonies: sacrifices, sacred things, sacraments and observances. The kosher laws were a kind of observance. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 11:11, 10 March 2020 (EDT)

I put a compromise version.Conservative (talk) 11:37, 10 March 2020 (EDT)

Here's an explanation by church Doctor Thomas Aquinas (late 13th century):

The Old Law showed forth the precepts of the natural law, and added certain precepts of its own. Accordingly, as to those precepts of the natural law contained in the Old Law, all were bound to observe the Old Law; not because they belonged to the Old Law, but because they belonged to the natural law. But as to those precepts which were added by the Old Law, they were not binding on save the Jewish people alone. (Treatise on Law, Q. 98, A. 5)

VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 12:29, 10 March 2020 (EDT)

God has redeemed us from the curse of the law <sticks fingers in ears> Na na na na. Not listening. Na na na na. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 06:26, 11 March 2020 (EDT)

PC or not PC

When someone screws people over, and something bad happens to them later, however big an ego they have, they're going to have a hard time avoiding the idea sometimes that they are getting what they deserve, as well as avoiding discovering that same idea sometimes in annoyingly unexpected places. Such a person would probably love enforcing political correctness, because by keeping others busy with moral scruples, it's easier for them to prevent those occasions; if they just look while they're doing it, they'll tend to find pretexts for believing that everyone who's able to succeed in doing anything does it too; and they can have normal emotions associated with confronting others that they can use to crowd out those that are tainted by a sense of self-incrimination.

And also: revenge through transference by means of attacking the people who remind them the most of those who, inadvertently or otherwise, bring up the idea that they are getting what they deserve. Capt. Obvious (talk) Thursday, 09:16, 12 March 2020 (EDT)

PC is all about not hurting someone's feelings. It has nothing to do with law, justice, equality, or even courage, or respect. It would more aptly be called common sense if it wasn't being enforced by a Gestapo. If you were, say, Charles Manson's or Jeffrey Dahmer's cellmate, it would make good common sense to be politically correct and not say anything that might offend the hearer. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:33, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
Like the peanut butter conspiracy, political correctness is spreading (into areas it doesn't belong). Maybe I should have said, "at its margins". VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 12:44, 12 March 2020 (EDT)

China pre-crimination

China desperately wants a scapegoat and thinks the U.S. is patsy enough to bear their sins away. Yes, Red China is fair game for criticism again: They must realize the mess they made is too big to overlook, so to save their sorry hides, they are attacking the very country (president) that held off criticism of them the most. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 18:14, 12 March 2020 (EDT)

So let me get this straight: the CCP
  1. promotes international cooperation, health, and good will through its work with the WHO;
  2. China has observed strict scientific procedures and reporting methods on its research during the pandemic;
  3. China promotes goodwill and cooperation among the people's of all nations, and is dedicated to peace, prosperity, and furthering medical science for the benefit of all the people of the world (although a person in China can be arrested for rumormongering and have his organs forcibly harvested).
Have I missed anything? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:25, 12 March 2020 (EDT)
On and off but in a sense
Just what we deserve
Combination of macabre
And theatre absurd
—Gary Reynolds, "The Wall Eyed Girl"
VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 19:57, 12 March 2020 (EDT)

Adding a female drafting service?

Hi. So how are we to handle Trump's recent announcement of removing the all-male drafting service and implementing a new draft having women be drafted as well as men? I sure hope Trump isn't going leftward right now... Pokeria1 (talk) 09:31, 13 March 2020 (EDT)

Huh? What's leftist about equality? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:16, 13 March 2020 (EDT)
They're not equal; women have lesser upper-body strength. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 12:23, 13 March 2020 (EDT)

Trump, Biden, coronavirus, Bernie Bros and FDA

In terms of his reelection Donald Trump is facing the coronavirus crisis and its effects on the economy.

Joe Biden is facing some Bernie Bros not voting for him in November.[20] In addition, a more grueling schedule to win against Donald Trump might expose his cognitive decline. On the other hand, the Biden campaign can use the coronavirus crisis as a reason to not to do a lot of public events which would reduce his cognitive decline related gaffes.

Maybe there will be political pressure to speed up FDA approval if a vaccine is developed and Ted Cruz is pushing legislation related to this matter.[21]

It's a tough race to call. Perhaps much of Trump's electability depends on how he handles the coronavirus crisis from now until November.

While some predicted this coronavirus crisis[22], it is kind of a black swan event in terms of Trump being reelected.[23][24]Conservative (talk) 07:38, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

I'm going to stop analyzing generally, but there's good news in the United States: 500 new confirmed cases the day before yesterday and 550 new confirmed cases yesterday. Once there's a trend of fewer new cases from day to day and subtract out the recoveries (which are just beginning to happen), we can say the infection rate has reached an "inflection point" (not "infection" but "inflection" with an "l") and while not having peaked, having reached the beginning of "cresting".
Another strange statistic: 63% of the coronavirus (Covid-19) cases are in the liberal meccas of California, New York, Massachusetts, Washington state and Colorado. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 09:51, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
So we have a media that says, Trump's not leading by example cause he has not been tested yet. Then, when he get's tested they say, Sure, the rich and well connected get tested first, but the rest of us common scum have to wait. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:20, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Good morning, Rob.
Trump doesn't get tested: SELFISH NARCISSIST
Trump does get tested: SELFISH ELITIST TAKING TESTS THAT COULD BE USED FOR LESS PRIVILEGED JUST DIE ALREADY
—@Hale_Razor (5:09 PM EST), Saturday Mar 14, 2020.
You've been scooped! VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 11:37, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Could new coronavirus cases keep rising in the US in the hundreds for many days to come? Possibly. Will they match the fatality rate of China? Probably not! VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 12:09, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
There are only about 300,000 available hospital beds in the U.S.; if 10% of those infected require intensive care, it'll overwhelm the system. That's why they want to 'flatten the line' on the rate of infection. It's as if they are saying we can't stop how many people get infected, we can only slow down how fast it happens and spread it out over time, hoping warmer weather may have some impact on killing the virus. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:23, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Meanwhile, when you call 9/11, they don't want to send a cop out to get infected. Looks like the 2nd Amendment may become a bigger issue this year. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:30, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Here's how I would interpret the scientific data: the numbers coming from Italy are probably much more reliable than anything coming out of China. RobSDe Plorabus Unum
Here's a comparison as of right now:
China 80973 3199 / fatality rate 4% - 66926 / recovery rate 82.7%
Italy 21270 1441 / fatality rate 6.8% - 1966 / recovery rate 9.2%
I've sworn off disputing on the subject of the Hubei virus, but did you see my remark that Italy imported 100,000 workers from that area? VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 17:26, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
And thank you for reporting on "flattening the line". It was very informative even though I didn't want to believe it. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 01:41, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
Without adding to the noise or panic, one source says the level right now of 165,000 infections worldwide could go to 1 million in the next 10 days, and 10 million in a month. This includes two assumptions - that Chineses number are incorrect, and that the public does not help "flatten the line" - But again keep in mind experts aren't saying it can be stopped, it can only be slowed down to prevent overwhelming the hospitals and frontline caregivers. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 10:36, 16 March 2020 (EDT)

Boomer remover and coronavirus

I do think the "boomer remover" nickname for the coronavirus disease is meanspirited.

On the other hand, I don't think the baby boomers have done enough to reform the Ponzi scheme called social security. The baby boomers haven't done enough to lower the federal government's debt. And they haven't done enough to reform taxpayer fueled spiraling college costs (government-backed student loans have been a big driver of rising tuition). For example, in order for a college to be able to tap into government-backed student loans, the federal government could require colleges to not make non-major courses mandatory and they could require more career counseling (telling students statistics related to various majors and future job statistics).

The baby boomers have known about this generational conflict and its associated resentments for some time. But they haven't done much to alleviate it, but seem to have only grown it. The baby boomer Donald Trump appears to be the only president who cares about the general welfare of Americans and he has unfortunately been handed a lot of problems that have built up over the years.Conservative (talk) 15:48, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

I suppose the issue comes back to whether the virus occurred in nature or was manufactured in a lab (a so-called 'vaccine' or antidote would have to be manufactured in lab, and a so-called vaccine or antidote would actually be the virus itself). As a Boomer Remover, it makes perfect sense among global leftists; since Leftism targets naive young people, a Boomer Remover would save them trillions of dollars in Social Security and Medicare in all societies that have social contract programs, freeing up money for UBI or whatever else globalists wish to spend it on to keep young people enslaved. The idea is not really that far fetched or beyond speculation. In a society that doesn't believe in God or judgement and worships science and technology, it's the next logical step to solve the planets problems. It is no secret that Boomers are responsible for destroying the planet with fossil fuels and leaving a big carbon footprint. Call it divine justice or retribution, if you will. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:28, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
I think the large (20%) plant bloom will take care of the CO2 for now and for future generations despite what the botched temperature data says. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 16:40, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Yabutt this idea falls outside the field of hard science. We're more into the sphere of perception, propaganda, and mass brainwashing - the stuff political campaigns and TV ratings are made of. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:54, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
The desire for fossil fuels in the private jets of liberal elitists is a near universal, though. So really [you're right,] talking about the carbon footprint whether it exists or not is the prior step. Science? Now what elite can afford to waste their time trying to learn about that? VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 17:18, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

The boomer Trump is also working on cutting all the expensive and unnecessary red tape and regulations having to do with building houses. So maybe the cost of housing will go down so Millenials and GenZ people can start families easier. The younger generation needs lower cost housing, lower educational costs and more jobs. Trump is working on housing and jobs. Maybe the political interests relating to resisting college reforms is too big of a nut to crack for the Trump administration.Conservative (talk) 17:49, 15 March 2020 (EDT)

I have a feeling that boomers are eventually going to face a big devaluation of their houses/stocks, but ultimately a lot of that devaluation might affect their heirs (if the boomers did not cash in their stocks, spend all their money and leave big reverse mortgages on their homes).Conservative (talk) 17:52, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: Democrat Mayors nd Governors are shutting down restaurants and imposing curfews in areas that are not needed nor have any impact in stopping the spread of virus in a deliberate effort to raise unemployment, halt the economy, and create chaos and discontent to defeat Donald Trump. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:19, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Just to supplement what you said: if you check the five liberal states I named, you'll see that even if their governors are applying useless precautions, for many of them, their problems are very much real and greater than their neighboring states. And why do I suspect that coronavirus infections can virtually act as a venereal disease and spread as rapidly as one? VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 21:07, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
Peter Ka said the South Korean fatality rate was 0.6%. Twitter user @unseen1_unseen reported it had risen to 0.7% or 4.2 times more fatal than the seasonal flu. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 21:52, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
South Korea 8236 75 / fatality 0.9% 1137 / recovery rate 13.8%
China appears to /have under reported its infects and fatalities, and overreported its recovery rates. The South Korean and Italian numbers are more realistic for making a prognosis. But there is a wide disparity in the fatality rate. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:16, 15 March 2020 (EDT)
For the record, China has a 4.0% fatality rate up to today. Also, yesterday's coronavirus statistics have dropped. 550 new cases in the U.S.; 59% of all U.S. cases in liberal states CA, NY, MA, WA and CO. Worldwide except China, 11% recovered (of those infected who have survived). VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 00:30, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
That's where the disparity is biggest. China reports an 82% recovoery rate, others report under 11%. We've known since the beginning people who've been declared recovered re-infected others. It looks as if anyone who isn't dead in 27 or 37 days or can be traced to a new infection China just adds to the recovery rate. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 10:26, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
If there are few recoveries yet in secondary populations, maybe it's like the case of a snake swallowing an elephant. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 16:10, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
We need to go over asymptomatic transmission for American readers again. Also, Italian data shows that age isn't necessarily the biggest risk category. Obesity poses a big risk. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:40, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
Thank you. The number of new cases in the U.S. today will more than double from yesterday, exceeding 1,000. There was a spike like this in China weeks ago for the same reason: better national reporting of data. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 16:53, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
In South Korea, the number of cases of infection reached an inflection point on March 4 and seems to have peaked on March 14. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 17:08, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
RobS's source (who had a rocky period for a short time) recorded 1,384 new cases in the U.S., as predicted (more than 1,000). Understandably, he can't always give complete real-time reports, and he hasn't today, but that leaves us in the dark about what tomorrow's figures will bring, and whether the "spike" will continue. He has reported the first batch of U.S. recoveries (56 so far) [update: around 1200 new cases for March 17 at 6:15p EST].
South Korea is still maintaining "post-peak" behavior. (229 fewer infected).
The "liberal state" infection behavior bias still has 60% of all 4,661 U.S. Covid-19 cases located in NY, CA, MA, WA and CO. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 12:32, 17 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: New York has 29% of all U.S. cases. Does anyone think they could be in trouble? VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 18:33, 17 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: Mostly good news. 90% of China net infections recovered as of today. South Korea's number of infections still moving downward since peaking four days ago. Worldwide infection totals outside China and Italy no longer growing exponentially, but at a near-constant rate, and this is the same in the United States—when subtracting out New York (whose [number of] cases has risen to 32% of all U.S. cases today). VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 18:39, 18 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: Some hours ago today up to now, the growth of new Chinavirus cases per day in the U.S. rose substantially—most of this must have been because of New York, which now consists of 33% of the United States' cases. I don't know where to get data of the daily growth of the viral infections in New York, so I can't say any more. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 22:49, 18 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: The day before yesterday, the U.S. had 1,813 new cases, after a rash of better national reporting. Yesterday this grew by 2,449 new cases. If New York makes up one-third of the new cases, as we suspect, the outside-of-NY case load grew by about 1,633—fewer than the day before, although the day before must have had a nice cut of NY cases as well. This means a sustained idea that the U.S. is hovering at about 1,500 new cases a day, excluding New York. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 11:42, 19 March 2020 (EDT)
62% of 9,464 U.S. Red China geronto-virus cases are in liberal states NY, IL, CA, NJ, WA. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 11:57, 19 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: 39% of U.S. cases are from New York. New York City is receiving a floating Red Cross barge in the New York Harbor to serve as a hospital for up to 1,000 patients. The United States just counted its 10,000th Red China Geronto-virus case. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 13:22, 19 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: If New York were a country of its own, it would be the ninth most infected country below South Korea and above Switzerland. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 17:55, 19 March 2020 (EDT)
I like CCP virus better. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:12, 19 March 2020 (EDT)
(Thank you.) Update: 40% of U.S. cases are from New York. This may seem like an over-bold statement, but, once you leave out New York, U.S. growth rate has stabilized at a growth of about 1,500 new cases per day over the past four days, matching China's ability to halt the growth in the number of its new cases per day and eventually actually shrink the number of daily new infected persons to none.

New York: epicenter of Communist China virus

In mathematics, constant growth [rates] always produce linear increases [in total amount], and if the growth ever slows, the "line" [describing the shape of total] growth becomes an inflection point. Will New York stabilize in the same way anytime soon? That's hard to say because there's no reason for it not to [based on ability to effect human organization] except as the fruits of a cosmopolitanism in New York City having embittered the desire for moral virtue for decades on end, which may not admit of a palatable solution. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 00:20, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: As of now, New York state (including New York City) is reporting 42% of all U.S. CCP virus cases. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 18:49, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: Save as above, but New York state is reporting 44% of all cases. Note that occasionally the data reports get out of sync, and a growing share of infections, when reported, seem to be a shrinking one.
By the way, I heard that Trump tried to impose a travel ban on Iran, that a judge issued a restraining order preventing it, and that by way of some Iranians the virus spread to the rest of New York City. Wild. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 21:24, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
The reported infection rate is more of a 'rate of testing'. The focus now is prioritizing who gets tested. Not everyone with symptoms is encouraged to be tested. People with symptoms are instructed to 'shelter in place' and not visit medical facilities to infect healthy people. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:57, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Why do I get the feeling that the Ayatollah is deliberately sending Corona-infected Iranians to New York as a mad last-minute attempt at bringing down America before he himself succumbs to the disease? Pokeria1 (talk) 21:28, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
(a) the Ayatollah is not that smart; (b) the U.S. and Iran have no diplomatic relations, hence there is no direct travel. A person coming from Iran must enter with a passport stamp from a third country; (c) most Iranians who travel between Iran and New York are opponents of the regime. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:06, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: Good news—135 new recoveries today in the United States. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 21:51, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
Shortbread, the alias of the person who does the Wuhan virus [COVID19info.live/us/] website is taking Friday night off and has not compiled the vital statistics for March 20 yet. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 01:50, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Los Angeles County stops testing for CCP virus altogether. I have an idea: it would be even more politically convenient to leave any kind of acknowledgement of this would-be liberalism-upstager of a virus off death certificates as well! VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 04:31, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Meanwhile, 10 times as many tests yesterday in U.S., source says. But only about 1.6 times new cases reported. This could actually be taken as a sign of stability, and psychologically the widespread reporting should prevent surprise increases later from contagions in areas not being monitored closely enough. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 06:05, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Here's my primary daily source, today would be as good a day as any to begin following: Coronavirus: Here Comes The BOOM! Stage. Case, case, cluster, cluster - Boom. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:20, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Updated: Now 64% of U.S. cases from liberal states: NY, CA, IL, WA, or NJ. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 07:28, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
A reminder that even of the 20-44-year-olds who get the virus, 15-20% end up needing intensive care, like at a hospital. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 07:35, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Yes, an important fact corroborated in Italy. More evidence the CCP lied in its data reporting. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:06, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Is this correct? UK had 1000+ deaths in the past 24 hrs? [25] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:22, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
(gallows humor) RobS read "Deaths" on one line, and "Confirmed [cases]" and combined them as "Deaths confirmed": 1070. I'm just glad Rob is not the PR guy for the CDC; there would nothing less than panic. Picture him on TV saying the above out loud and scratching his head. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 22:34, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
I should have done a screenshot. Under the 24hr column it had UK at +1056, ahead of Italy's +793. Thank God scientists and statisticians are only human and fallible. It's been corrected to +56. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:16, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: Bad news—Out-and-out increase in the growth rate of the virus in the United States. Even New York's eruption and the new testing being done won't allow the data to fit the hypothesis that the CCP virus contagion has stabilized, as it seemed to have for the past five days. I estimate this patients per day growth rate size to have had an additional 600 new infections per day added to it. Gross new U.S. infections being detected on Saturday: 6,400 cases. Recoveries, while important to individual patients and their families and loved ones, have been statistically negligible. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 23:36, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Here's my understanding of the US situation (correct me if I'm wrong...and let's not worry about creating mass panic in an open discussion nobody's paying attention to). The US at the moment has the ability to test 27 million people in a country of 327 million people. although more test kits and laboratory technicians trained to interpret data are coming on line daily, the ability for universal testing is still some time off. So only 'selective testing' is available.
So what is 'selective testing'? Death panels? Only Hollywood celebrities and other bigwigs can afford to bribe someone for a test? Does it really matter, since a healthy person can become infected 5 minutes after walking out of a testing facility?
Ok, that's all speculative. Can a so-called 'Recovered' person still be reinfected? or have they built up antibodies and immunity? Do we know?. Limited testing, and selective testing. means the aggregate numbers we study are controlled, and not really reflective of what is actually happening in nature and the real world. Correct me if I'm wrong or off on the wrong track. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:28, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
If there are other U.S. populations infected, why aren't their doctors informed and sending the information to the CDC? You don't need a test for symptoms. I also read some persons may have a better natural immunity to this virus than others on the order of a five-fold difference. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 02:53, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: of the five liberal states mentioned above, they now comprise 66% of all cases. Why is this exactly? Do they have a lot of casual sexual activity? Sanitation problems? In rural America, you can probably still work unmolested. But who's going to use mass transit once the numbers rise? I'm sure many many people already aren't. Furloughing millions will cost billions in addition to work lost from people refusing to use the airlines which affects every state. Unemployment claims to rise millions too, if that gives you an idea about business shuttering. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 02:45, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
This is how the virus is spread. Watch video 15:00-16:30. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:38, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

Chloroquine

If you look on main page right, you will see there is reason to believe that about 80% of people have natural immunity to coronavirus. This explains what is happening in the Hubei province of China according to reports. Essentially, the virus ran out of people to infect easily.

Please read these articles: article 1 and Article 2. My guess is that chloroquine might be a big help, but it is not a panacea.[26][27][28][29] Conservative (talk) 05:59, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Chinese election meddling

Keep focused. China is meddling in the U.S. presidential election. Media and critics are colluding with China who repeat official Chinese propaganda - (a) that the Wuhan virus began with the U.S. military in China, and (b) saying that the China virus began in China is racist. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:20, 21 March 2020 (EDT)

Vox @voxdotcom Mar 18: Trump’s new fixation on using a racist name for the coronavirus is dangerous.
"Institutions like Vox aren't saying this because they're paid by the Chinese, or even really that they're just reflexively anti-Trump.
"It's for the same reason they obscured how AIDS spread: progressivism is the system of denying where problems emerge from."—@17cShyteposter
VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 03:23, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
We're battling two imported diseases, the Chinese virus and the ChiCom Flu - the media infection with CCP propaganda. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 03:42, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
What are you talking about? They're not suffering from that—they're enjoying every minute of it! VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 03:55, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
Jimmy Kimmel jokes: “A great way to prevent a virus from spreading is to name it something racist."
"Important work being done by celebrities and journalists. Where would we be without a caste of people who police language to ensure they remain in control of moral discourse?" 2CB, Twitter.

And for some reason New York City comedians don't have better things with which to occupy themselves. Or maybe this is their way of already starting to lobby for a nice cut of the Congressional Chinese Virus Relief Funding Act to be passed by the U. S. Legislature after the pandemic. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 03:46, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

"So, Jimmy, you agree that Trump is racist against the Chinese?"
"That's right."
"One of the all-time most-watched videos on YouTube says China is a diverse collection of more than a dozen racial groups. Which one or ones among the groups is Trump being racist against?"
"? Just a minute." [goes back inside]
[ten minutes later, comes out]
"I'm not supposed to talk to you."

VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 04:41, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

USA federal politicians are probably going to screw up their response to coronavirus

What the USA needs is a Manhattan Project like response to the coronavirus with: ventilator production geared up[30]; trained ventilator staff workers ramped up; the US Army Corps of Engineers and others ramping up hospital beds and gearing up automated coronavirus testing using robots. Andrew Cuomo, the Governor of NY state, surprisingly has some clarity on this issue and largely speaks/behaves constructively which is probably because he is facing a crisis.[31] Government slow moving bureaucracy like behavior needs to be streamlined and not get in the way.

President Trump should make an announcement to the nation from the Oval Office and encourage state governors and local governments to: close schools (encourage distant learning and homeschooling); close bars; close restaurants (except for food for home delivery); cancel concerts and cancel sports events.

But history will probably repeat itself and slow governments will react slowly and poorly (history doesn't exactly repeat itself but it rhymes).

USA government response to the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic: "The response by the U.S. government to the Spanish flu bears many lessons for the current situation. The initial instinct by the American leaders was to downplay the extent of the epidemic. In Europe, there was "outright censorship" on the topic of the flu, as warring nations jockeyed to get an advantage over the other sides, according to historian John M. Barry. " There was intense pressure not to say anything negative," he pointed out in an interview with the Washington Post. When the flu started to spread in the U.S. in 1918, the government and the media tried to "keep morale up" by focusing only on positive stories about the war and portrayed the flu as an "ordinary influenza by another name," as it was called by a top health official."[32]

China: Covered up coronavirus crisis in its early stages.[33]

Italy: "Squabbling leaders, publicity-seeking scientists, and late containment efforts show that authoritarian regimes aren’t the only ones mismanaging public health crises."[34]

South Korea was initially slow moving in terms of the coronavirus crisis.[35]

The person who is speaking the most responsibly is Dr. Anthony Fauci, Director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

For all the railing against User: TheAmericanRedoubt (TAR) and his focus on preparation in case of a national emergency, it turns out he was right. Black swan events happen.

Maybe Nancy Pelosi, Donald Trump and Congress will act in the interest in the nation and not squabble, but I doubt it.Conservative (talk) 02:53, 16 March 2020 (EDT)

Singapore and Taiwan, who learned from fairly recent pandemics, have decent governments that have acted constructively during the coronavirus crisis.[36] I am not confident about the rest of the governments. In the USA, Nancy Pelosi is the weakest link in the federal government.Conservative (talk) 04:30, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
The first reports of the 1918 flu in the international press dealt with an outbreak in Spain in November 1918. Earlier reports concerning the various World War I armies were strictly censored. That's how it became a "Spanish" flu. Barry and other modern historians trace the disease to an outbreak at Fort Ripley in Kansas in March 1918. I suspect that the U.S. simply has better records, and more historians examining those records, than other countries involved. Austria was not affected by the "first wave" of influenza in March 1918. It may have been hit earlier, allowing Austrians to develop immunity. PeterKa (talk) 06:30, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
As far as their response to the coronavirus, the Trump administration has been a mixed bag in terms of doing things right/wrong. Certainly, it is a lot better than Obama's response to pandemics/epidemics. For example, Trump shut off visits from people who had been in China recently.
The Trump administration is taking the coronavirus seriously now. Accordingly, Trump's approval ratings are going up.
A major question is how effective various methods to combat the coronavirus is going to be (social distancing, existing medical interventions, ramping up the medical material/labor supplies, etc.) and what is going to be the pace as far as the development/deployment of new medical interventions such as treatments/vaccine. Another question is how cooperative Americans (especially the young people) are going to be as far as social distancing and quarantines. Conservative (talk) 07:23, 21 March 2020 (EDT)

A more constructive approach to the coronavirus pandemic

I thought about recent governments around the world responses to pandemics and took a pessimistic view.

It occurred to me that one constructive thing that can be done is to pray for our leaders and pray for our health and the health of others. In addition, have a strong level of fitness so you are part of the solution and not part of the problem. Like work out 7-8 hours a week at least.

I do think that the United States should pass a constitutional amendment related to pandemics and have national policies that foster health/fitness. For example, it is a foolish policy to subsidize the sugar industry which is helping to cause Americans to be overweight. And give tax credits to gym memberships, etc. The more fit and trim Americans are the more they will be resistant to pandemics. In addition, make the laws more conducive to family formation so America does not have an aging population that is more susceptible to pandemics (more generous child tax credits, make the regulations related to house construction be easier, etc.). Conservative (talk) 06:36, 16 March 2020 (EDT)

There is USA legal precedent in terms of enforcing state quarantine laws.[37] What is absent is giving the federal government power to enact quarantines.Conservative (talk) 08:27, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
In 1892, President Benjamin Harrison quarantined passenger ships coming from Hamburg to prevent an outbreak of cholera. This case is remembered as a rare example of a clear cut quarantine success story. But it certainly isn't only time the federal government imposed one. PeterKa (talk) 08:56, 16 March 2020 (EDT)
"But the average American may be surprised to learn who holds the authority to order such public-health measures. Except at the nation’s borders, the federal government, with the expertise of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is not in charge. America’s defense against epidemics is divided among 2,684 state, local, and tribal public-health departments. Each one is responsible for monitoring people within its jurisdiction, imposing isolation or quarantine as needed. CDC officials are “preparing as if [the new coronavirus] is the next pandemic,” but in reality, the laboring oar falls to state and local health departments.
The federal government’s quarantine powers at U.S. borders are indeed extensive. The Department of Homeland Security has implemented a travel ban on noncitizens who have been anywhere in China recently. U.S. citizens, by contrast, cannot be turned away at the border, but they can be ordered into quarantine to be monitored, at present for up to two weeks. The secretary of health and human services announced quarantine measures for returning citizens not long after the CDC issued its first federal quarantine order in more than 50 years—for the first planeload of people evacuated from Wuhan by the U.S. State Department.
Federal quarantine orders, however, are implemented and enforced by state health authorities, not federal officials. That means state and local health departments provide the labor, set the rules, monitor people who might have been exposed to the virus, and trace the contacts of those who fall ill. The federal quarantine order for the 195 evacuees from Wuhan? That order was able to prevent them from leaving the plane they arrived in. The federal government could also order the quarantine of an entire cruise ship at one of the nation’s seaports—as Japan has done. But otherwise, federal quarantine orders have a pretty limited effect. When one of the Wuhan evacuees wanted to leave the military base in California where the group was under quarantine, a state-level quarantine order was necessary to prevent that from happening. This is because the quarantined group was no longer at a point of entry, or in an airplane, and was thus subject to the jurisdiction of the local health department where they were quarantined."[38]Conservative (talk) 11:03, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
There would need to be a constitutional amendment to give the federal government power to quarantine within the states.Conservative (talk) 11:06, 21 March 2020 (EDT)

Italian coronavirus infections

I didn't read down the page on one of my sources, but Italy's infections are a scandal of the first order to the globalists in the European Union. Italy let in 100,000 Chinese immigrants to work in Chinese-run leather and textile businesses, a place where the Chinese decided to move so they could put a "Made in Italy" mark on their products. The European Union's lax policy on immigration has cost thousands their lives, if you count corona-virus infections both within and outside Italy where it spread, including other member states of the European Union. China + Italy alone = 75% of all fatalities. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 21:57, 16 March 2020 (EDT)

float

And what if those immigrant Chinese were illegal immigrants? The EU government couldn't condemn them without bringing up their own refusal to enforce the law against illegal migrants. Especially those illegal migrants who went on to attempt to perform or to actually perform violent crimes! VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 22:50, 16 March 2020 (EDT)

That makes at least two strikes against China. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 23:39, 16 March 2020 (EDT)

I first heard about the Chinese sweat shops in Naples in the epic film Gommorah. [39] It was just a minor subplot, but the fact these people were essentially slave laborers brought in to destroy the jobs of Italians was shocking.
In the film, a guy is stealing the latest dress designs and selling them to these Chinese sweat shops so they have the latest fashions at a cheaper price. He ends up getting whacked. The Chinese have a big enough operation to compete with the native Italian garment industry, they just need the latest fashions to compete. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:02, 17 March 2020 (EDT)
The virus' new name is the Red China geronto-virus. Until you get to be 70, it's no more likely to kill you than the 2017-18 flu season was—if you didn't get your flu shot. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 23:51, 18 March 2020 (EDT)
Recommended: Why Italy?. March 20, 2020, excerpted:
In March of 2019, Italy entered into a new agreement with China, part of its “one belt, one road” initiative, a sweeping economic agreement with the country that saw the port of Triesta in northern Italy “revitalized” and managed by The PRC.

The project makes enormous infrastructure investments to move Chinese goods and resources. Italy became the first of the Group of 7 nations that once dominated the global economy to take part in China’s “One Belt One Road” throughout Asia, Africa and Europe.

The Trump administration, which tried and failed to stop the deal, focused in the days leading up to Mr. Xi’s visit on blocking any Italian use of 5G wireless networks developed by the Chinese electronics giant Huawei, which Washington warned could be used by Beijing to spy on communications networks.

Italy, which is saddled with crushing debt, hopes to lift its lagging economy by exporting goods to China and inviting more Chinese investment.

But opponents of the project in the Trump administration and in the European Union worry that Italy has turned itself into a Trojan Horse, allowing China’s economic — and potentially military and political — expansion to reach into the heart of Europe.

RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:15, 21 March 2020 (EDT)

Trump tweets "The world is at war with a hidden enemy. WE WILL WIN!"

See the tweet here.--Geopolitician (talk) 15:45, 17 March 2020 (EDT)

Who is this hidden enemy? Regardless of who or what Trump thinks it is, the biggest threat to the American people right now in the face of this pandemic is the Deep State. If the Deep State didn't create the virus itself, then it certainly is taking advantage of it to push Police State measures.[40]--Geopolitician (talk) 16:12, 18 March 2020 (EDT)

Heart to heart

It's so comforting that the liberal media are showing the moral strength to avert their eyes from the suffering through infection by a foreign disease of 10,000 of their fellow Americans. After all, they need their resolve to join with the Chinese Communists in their making every effort to shield themselves from both blame and threats to their vanity (now, and in the future) by preventing the naming of the virus after them—the same kind of threats that caused them to disregard the safety of others in their mismanagement of the disease outbreak in which the virus appeared in the first place.

There's never been a rule against that in political correctness before, but whoever examines political correctness at the margin has suddenly discovered it, and the liberal media are climbing all over each other in fatuous eagerness to be the first to enforce it!

I don't think the liberal media is disloyal by nature—they were obviously born in bodies located in a country with the wrong degree of excitement for Communism! If you live near our coastal waterways, please overcome your communiphobia and consider helping these victims draw nearer to their political fellows, who can serve and comfort them better in that regard, in China, Sweden, Venezuela or the socialist country of their choice, by pushing them into the ocean. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 14:56, 19 March 2020 (EDT)

It goes beyond ideological kinship between socialists and leftists in journalism today; China has commercial interests in the United States, in the NBA, in Hollywood, in advertising and media. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:15, 19 March 2020 (EDT)
"Hey, come on guys—our Chinese monitor is putting on the heat that we defend Chinese Communism!" Instead of Chinese disease outbreak, we can call it the Chinese health matter. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 15:24, 19 March 2020 (EDT)
China reported 82,000 infections and quit. Nobody believes China's reporting. Now they kicked out Western journalists, earning criticism (remarkably) from WaPo, NYT, and WSJ. For this reason I hesitate reporting the obvious fake news that Italy has surpassed China in deaths. Now this morning Dr. Faucci says young people (people under 40) are being infected at a rate higher than China reported earlier.
China's public response since January 23 seems more scripted than haphazard, as they would have us believe. Before it's over. we may need to put all Chinese data were it belongs - tucked neatly away inside the Steele dossier along with Das Kapital and Dreams From My Father and other works of historical fiction. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 09:24, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
My guess why China quit reporting infections at 82,000 and deaths at 3,000+, and why they kicked out Western media - they ran out of test kits and all the frontline medical people died. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:42, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Q. E. D.

The first viral disease outsourced to the public for treatment, utilizing the Best of the Public has nonetheless caused a recession in the first three months of the 2020 in the United States according to J. P. Morgan Bank, who predicts a 4% annualized (1% during the quarter) drop in GDP. No good deed goes unpunished. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 17:39, 19 March 2020 (EDT)

We're coming roaring back better than the trade war and tariffs did. I'm not saying a break in diplomatic relations, but CIA needs to get off its butt and establish if Wuhan virus occurred in nature or was invented in lab. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:15, 19 March 2020 (EDT)

Never Trumper JohnSelway on Trump's handling of the coronavirus crisis

How can you continue to support Trump when he has lied to your faces regarding Corona Virus? I mean, it's all on record. As a conservative I expect honour and honesty from my elected presidents/officials. If it were Clinton lying like this Conservapedia, with good reason, would call her out. How can you accept being lied to? JohnSelway (talk) 20:36, 20 March 2020 (EDT)

And who told you this, CNN or MSNBC? You're being sold a bill of goods by a TDS-afflicted liberal media that cares less about the public well-being than it does about fearmongering, public manipulation and their pathological obsession with "getting Trump". Northwest (talk) 20:51, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
And how can we answer you when you chronically interpret public events in a manner that damages the reputation of conservatives and conservatism the most? Isn't that the same as trolling? VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 20:55, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
At the last debate, Biden promised a moratorium on deportations.[41] This is the Democrats' answer to the Wuhan virus?
Meanwhile, the media has focused on using the virus against Trump, complete with comparisons to Chernobyl. I have yet to see a Democrat honest enough to acknowledge that the liberal media is a problem in this epidemic. If you compare the media's reaction to the Wuhan virus to its reaction to H1N1 in 2009, it is hard to avoid the conclusion is that they played down H1N1 as a favor to Obama. See "Remember the H1N1 Pandemic? I Don’t Either." H1N1 killed 12,000 Americans in 2009 compared to 262 so far from the Wuhan virus outbreak. H1N1 is the virus that gave us the 1918 flu pandemic. If the reports from the China are anything to go by, the Wuhan virus is super infectious and most Americans will come down with it eventually. Why destroy the economy just to "flatten the curve"? The current panic is not rational or sustainable.
Now that the Chinese media is talking about how China could cut off U.S. medical supplies, we need to ramp up domestic production. Until 2014, there was a tax break called Section 936 that made Puerto Rico a drug production powerhouse. So we can blame Obama's anti-American tax policy for this vulnerability. PeterKa (talk) 21:57, 20 March 2020 (EDT)
JohnSelway, Conservapedians don't believe you are a conservative in the American sense. You are politically left of Conservapedians and a never Trumper. You can prattle on and on about you being a conservative, but Conservapedians don't believe you are a conservative.
Granted the term conservative in the political sense is not a strictly defined term. But given Trump's rollback of the administrative state, his appointments of a great many conservative judges, his pro-business policies and his general commitment to right-wing policies, to be anti-Trump is idiotic. Is voting Biden a reasonable alternative?
You tout the importance of honour and honesty, yet where is your honesty when it comes to Trump's accomplishments?Conservative (talk) 07:37, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Trump mentioned in his book the Art of the Deal, which was ghostwritten, the notion of "truthful hyperbole". Also, a survey was done of English speaking salesmen in the Anglosphere and the USA salesmen came in last place.
Trump doesn't always tell the truth, but I can't think of a U.S. President who kept more of his promises or who is more results driven. Trump also cares more for the average Joe in the USA and for people who were neglected by prior administrations (better trade deals, prison reform, stimulus programs for economically suffering zones in the USA such cities, etc.). I am glad Trump won the election and that Hillary Clinton is not handling the coronavirus crisis.Conservative (talk) 09:09, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
JohnSelway, it's not just Trump who's lying about how dangerous this disease is. It's also politicians across the board. Democrat and Republican. Federal, state, and local. This crisis should be an eye-opener for the American people about how much contempt their politicians have for them. They like to manufacture crises, deny that they manufactured them, and then claim that they and their policies are the solution. And they think (perhaps correctly) that the people are stupid enough to fall for it and allow their freedoms to be taken away. And not temporarily. Permanently. Read this article by Ron Paul to learn more about where I'm coming from here.--Geopolitician (talk) 11:31, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Also, at this point I'm very close to 100% convinced that the Deep State (not China) created this virus. Not just to take out China's economy but also to cause a panic that will bring us closer to a police state. I'm also convinced that Dr. Anthony Fauci is a Deep Stater.--Geopolitician (talk) 11:33, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Considering Ron Paul's suggestion regarding geopolitics is just to pack up and leave South Korea to be invaded by the North Koreans, basically a repeat of Vietnamization, I have ZERO reason to believe him (and quite frankly, if I must be honest, I see zero difference between him and the likes of Noam Chomsky in outlook). If I must be blunt, believing the CCP's propaganda is also stupid, even with the Deep State also being awful. And that's EXACTLY what your statement is, the CCP's propaganda. Pokeria1 (talk) 11:57, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Pokeria, I'm not putting anything past the Deep State anymore. It is so despicable, that I actually believed what you call CCP propaganda even before the CCP began promoting it.
I'm at a point where I consider the Deep State to be the biggest threat this country. Even bigger than China. Because unlike China, the Deep State and its allies (or is it masters?) in Saudi Arabia and Turkey have been on the march, waging death and destruction across the whole world for nearly two decades straight. Thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of others have died because of this war of terror. That's not a typo. The War on Terror is a fraud. A better name for it would be the War of Terror.--Geopolitician (talk) 13:31, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Geo: You seem to have some extremest views. You consider Saudi Arabia a bigger threat than Iran, the Deep State a bigger threat than the CCP. I suggest take a step back, use your considerable analytic skills to reconsider some of these stances. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:46, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Yeah, I agree. You really should listen to RobS, Geo. Bear in mind RobS is also very much against the deep state as well (heck, one of his former handles literally said "Deep Six the Deep State"), and when he thinks you're being extremist, chances are you're going way too extreme with this.
Besides, just because one is against the deep state doesn't mean they're actual good guys. Hideo Kojima has shown instances of being against the Deep State in his Metal Gear games, yet he sings praises for Che Guevara, and his idea of a good replacement for the Deep State is basically lawless anarchy, where everyone basically kills each other for sheer kicks with law and order not existing under any capacity and basically being a post-apocalyptic world, and absolutely NO government whatsoever, and I'm pretty sure even you would agree such a thing is even WORSE than a deep state. Same goes for the guys who did the French Revolution or Michel Foucault (and he definitely hated the state enough that he wouldn't even want Socialist People's Courts, let alone standard courts, to exist under ANY capacity, and instead advocated for September Massacres-style mob lynchings).
And I've already seen plenty of far-leftists condemn the deep state simply because it's even a state rather than the pure anarchistic desires they want such as Noam Chomsky or those guys, and all you're doing is channeling those guys. Pokeria1 (talk) 14:01, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Rob and Conservative, from a pure geopolitical standpoint China and Iran are indeed bigger threats than Saudi Arabia. But I don't believe in pure geopolitics. Pure geopolitics requires one to throw morality out the window. I can't bring myself to do that.
The Deep State believes in geopolitics without morals. And that's its problem. It's willing to engage in extremely evil and incredibly dangerous tactics in order to justify its geopolitics. And these tactics have cost us not just so many American lives but also cost us many of our freedoms. And it has pushed us to the brink of a Third World War, where more than likely we'll be seen as the aggressor by the rest of the world. I cannot stand for that.
And another thing. I don't believe that many people in the Deep State believe in globalism in the sense where all national barriers are destroyed and there's a global government. I believe most of them believe in a one world order in the sense that the US itself is the defacto global government. This mentality is very similar to that of national globalism except it's unipolar instead of multipolar in nature. Either way, it leads to global tyranny in the end. Much like how a strong federal government that controls weak states leads to national tyranny in the end.
I look at the situation this way. Our government is possessed by a legion of demons. Not literally but symbolically. Saudi Arabia is one of the main demons, if not the main demon. And the Deep State is the legion as a whole. Now of course once in a while there are feuds among the legion. How could demons not turn on each other once in a while, given their very nature?--Geopolitician (talk) 15:14, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Actually, my main reason for believing China and Iran being bigger threats than Saudi Arabia does in fact tether itself not just to pure geopolitics, but to actual morality as well. Let me put it this way: As bad as the Saudis are, at least they tolerate Christianity enough to not try and wipe it out altogether, even preventing other, more radical muslim groups from trying to genocide Christians out of existence, while Iran can't even restrain itself from slaughtering anyone even remotely suspected to be Christian or, indeed, of any religion NOT of the Sunni Muslim sect. As far as China, you'd have to be BLIND to think that supporting China, which to this day is trying to outright EXTERMINATE Christianity off the face of the Earth like all Marxist-derived countries, is morally better than supporting Saudi Arabia. And don't get me started on how the situation with China for Christendom is arguably even WORSE than under the Soviet Union during the Cold War thanks largely to Pope Francis if anything cheering ON the Communist Government to exterminate all Christians (seriously, at least the Christians being persecuted by Marxist countries during the Cold War had the Pope giving them firm support). And make no mistake, were it wholly up to me, I'd probably just glass the entire Middle East, both Saudi Arabia/Turkey AND Iran, and leave it a complete wasteland of complete extinction due to not supporting Islam at all due to it being antithetical to Christianity, and then ensure Christianity alone dominates the Earth, with God as Emperor over all.
And just as an FYI, there's plenty of instances where tyranny is actually the least bad option in several choices (not saying it's not bad at all, just that of the plenty of bad choices, it's ultimately the least worst option). For example, the French Revolution didn't have tyranny, in fact, it lacked ANY government at all, yet that was undoubtedly the worst option compared to King Louis XVI's France (which was actually pretty laid back overall and almost liberalized rather than totalitarian by any measure), or for that matter Napoleonic France (which WAS a dictatorship, yet at least made sure Christianity was spared from extinction rather than continuing the Jacobins' policies of de-Christianization). Or heck, look at Lenin's Russia, which had Lenin trying to go as far as to get rid of even the CONCEPT of law and order, wanting to go even FURTHER than the Paris Communes to ensure it DIDN'T fall apart like the Paris Communes did, meaning that was closer to pure anarchy than tyranny, and that was arguably even WORSE than tyranny, with even Tsarist Russia being preferable by comparison. Besides, I'd rather take America being the de-facto government than Communists, especially if it allows for Christendom to be recreated (I sure as heck don't want a de-facto government derived from the Jacobins or like-minded groups such as the Spanish Republicans, Red Chinese, Nazi Germans, or the USSR). Heck, if anything, our becoming de-facto government would be a good way to ATONE for our sins of letting such evils like Communism spread (and make no mistake, we were idiots for letting Communism spread since at least Lenin's little rabblerousing times, going by State Department documents, and thus need to make up for that BIG time.). Pokeria1 (talk) 15:32, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
The Democrats have been focused on impeachment, global warming alarmism, identity politics and other nonsense. The coronavirus issue was not prominent enough priority to Democrats.
A strong case can be made that Trump ignored warnings and downplayed the seriousness of the coronavirus and as a result 60 or so days were wasted in terms of tackling the crisis. And yet, he made a key and crucial decision to limit visitors from China which was expanded to include Europe. And I do think Trump is taking the coronavirus pandemic seriously now.
Also, Trump is very much an optimist and can-do person so perhaps he overestimated what doctors and medical product developers would be able to do.
A systematic problem in the world in terms of limiting the impact of pandemics/epidemics is that most men are not as health-oriented as women. For example, men are dying more of coronavirus due to preexisting respiratory/circulatory problems (men smoke more, eat less healthy, etc.). So a likely issue of why many of the world's leaders were not proactive enough in handling this crisis is that men care less about health. That just the way it is. On the other hand, men are probably more likely to prepare for war. So unfortunately Trump overprepared for war and underprepared for a coronavirus pandemic.Conservative (talk) 12:04, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
So John Selway thinks 55% of Americans are deceived. We don't need this hate-filled noise during a national emergency. Take your Chinese propaganda, along with your thoroughly discredited fake news media and partisan traitorous socialist/globalist talking points and stick it where the sun don't shine. This kinda of nonsense is not worth responding to, other than a simple STFU. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:29, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
JohnSelway belongs to the dying and impotent Anglican church. The same church that installed David Jenkins as a bishop in a position that was 4rth most important post in the Anglican church in England (Church of England) - despite him casting aspersions on the virgin birth of Jesus and the literal resurrection of Jesus Christ. 35 hours after they installed him in that position the South Transept roof of York Minster suddenly burst into flames, and was totally destroyed before the Fire Brigade could do anything about it due to a “sword-like stab of fire” or lightning strike.[42] The insurance company said it was an act of God and said they were not paying out on the claim![43]
"The Cathedral’s roof was fully wired with lightning rods, which for some reason didn’t work that night. In addition there were six smoke detectors in the ceiling, which had been tested just a month before. Again, these didn’t register. In other words, the whole event may be considered an inexplicable mystery. The York Minster article on the Internet says simply, “On 9 July 1984 a fire, probably caused by lightning, destroyed the roof of the South Transept.”"[44]
If JohnSelway is foolish enough to support the Anglican Church, he most certainly is foolish enough not to support Trump!Conservative (talk) 14:16, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
John Selway: Nobody's interested in Democrat drivel. Bernie's burnt, Biden debilitated (I love alliteration). As my Marine Corp drill sergeant father used to say, "Son, you better wake up and join the human race." RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:49, 21 March 2020 (EDT)

Anthony Fauci is not an obstructionist

Anthony Fauci is not an obstructionist. He is a spokesperson for the Trump administration. He is a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force addressing the 2019–20 coronavirus pandemic. And there are no indications that Trump is irritated or angry at Anthony Fauci.

The only thing Fauci said is that small trials of the anti-malarial drug chloroquine had been done in relation to coronavirus and he wants to investigate things further. This makes perfect sense because medical science uses replication of results using bigger sample sizes.

And Fauci didn't contradict Trump when Trump clarified things and said the drug looked promising given its cost/benefit ratio so far.

Bottom line: Given the small sample sizes of the studies of chloroquine in relation to chloroquine/coronavirus, it can't be touted as a miracle intervention yet. It is merely promising.

My guess is that the drug will be used first in New York State because they are likely to be one of the most desperate and overburdened medical systems in the USA given the number of cases in NY state so far. And they do have an incompetent mayor of New York City and he could very well screw up his response to the coronavirus epidemic.

And then hopefully, Trump will have learned his lesson from the FDC debacle related to testing for coronavirus and then push chloroquine through if it shown to be effective against coronavirus. I hope the drug proves effective and Trump is very aggressive this time.Conservative (talk) 22:41, 21 March 2020 (EDT)

In 1918, they were already vaccinating people in October. That's before the public even knew there was a flu outbreak. These vaccines were just publicity stunts. They put as many antibodies as they could in the serum in the hope that one of them would do something. The doctors didn't come up with a vaccine that worked until the 1930s. PeterKa (talk) 22:56, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Let's not overpoliticize things. Anthony Fauci appears to be a competent doctor who is giving Trump good advice about taking aggressive measures in terms of social distancing and taking a multi-tactic approach.
I do realize that Italy was a "perfect storm" for the coronavirus (Italy has the second oldest population in the world in terms of senior citizens; Italians are very affectionate in their greetings; many Italians live with relatives and work in big cities and commute to work, but then bring the virus back to their towns; Italy has a lot of quarreling politicians, etc. etc.). On the other hand, Americans are very independent and so quarantines could prove difficult, so maybe a "ripping off the bandage in one swoop", tougher approach to squashing the coronavirus in its early stages is better. That certainly seems to be the case in Taiwan. Conservative (talk) 22:57, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
Here is the best way of looking at things. Trump is a great salesman with leadership ability. He demolished his Republican opponents in the 2016 primary and then went out to win against Hillary Clinton despite being outspent by her and having less other resources.
And then Trump got a tremendous amount of things done once becoming president which shows he has leadership abilities.
But sometimes salesmen become overenthusiastic about various matters. Leaders can also do this. But the guys in the engineering/research departments are the ones who help the sales departments and CEOs to be more grounded in what can be achieved and promised. That is Anthony Fauci's role in the administration. Conservative (talk) 23:11, 21 March 2020 (EDT)
I agree. At a time of mass confusion bordering on panic, with mass media hell-bent on undermining President Trump, now is not the time to trash Anthony Fauci. Whatever his faults are, President Trump has confidence in him both as a personal advisor and spokesperson for the administration. As Dr. Drew said, "Don't listen to journalists. Listen to Dr. Fauci." [45] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:01, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
Fauci's from Brooklyn, Trump's from Queens. They get along okay. One's a doctor and scientist, the other a politician and businessman. I think they make a good team.
Trump will highlight a hopeful development, such as hydroxychloroquine, while Dr. Fauci will quite rightly point out the need for clinical studies to ensure that (a) it really works and (b) there aren't too many side effects. Both men are doing their job. --- User: Ed Poor

Offer the wicked man no resistance

If you think today is over-legalized, think about this: they say in American colonial times people resorted the courts about four times as often as they do today.

Now think about Jesus' time. The world was filled with original sin, embittering all human relations. The wealth of the time may have made people less prone to desperate measures to make lives for themselves, but the Apostle Paul recognized the love of money to be the root of all the evils, so maybe we can guess those who lived then resorted to the courts more often as well.

Maybe we could take another step and suppose what in Hammurabi's day, "Eye for eye and tooth for tooth" was a stern caution about the limits of revenge, while payments through the laws of restitution already being substituted for the physical acts, became to some parties in Jesus' time a spectacle to which to be looked forward. Maybe we could take a third step and suppose if violence broke out, it may have been swiftly reported to the magistrate.

But there are also hidden forms of attacking an easy mark. And often the confusion it engenders in your target can even cause him to participate in the hiding. Isn't that sweet?

Does that help us understand what Jesus was talking about in the Sermon on the Mount about offering the wicked man no resistance? I don't think I have to explain all the mechanism behind it, but what He seemed to be referring to are crimes against honor that you can identify, but maybe not explain so well. So you respond...?

I once read, I think it was in the Daily Study Bible, that hitting someone with the back of the hand, back then, was more insulting and contemptious than the front. For a right-handed person (sorry to leave you out, lefties), that would be their right cheek. If you doubt me and think this is a physical assault, you'll have to explain why you'd do it with the broad back of your fist.

The wicked man might like to have an audience and, by verbal tricks, add to the surprise and contempt. Jesus tells us "offer the wicked man no resistance". How about pulling him while he's charging into you? Okay, it's not entirely similar, but maybe the audience he summoned through trickery will see from his hesitation that you could have done something like that, but didn't, and smell a rat.

Don't confuse this with defending your life or with warfare, like the centurion who had faith, whom Jesus praised, of the same kind that also have to guard against barbarians and police the roads for bandits during peacetime.

So no, Jesus' advice isn't wearing thin, you just gave up understanding it too early. Big mistake. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 10:25, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Courts and a legal system is a hallmark of civilization, versus barbarism (today we might use a term like 'gangbangerism'). In order for courts to work, parties must exercise good faith. If one party alone demonstrates a lack of good faith by conduct, demeanor, or the facts of the case, they automatically loose. When a misunderstanding occurs between two parties acting in good faith, it gets more complicated. So that is how I'd define the wicked man, someone who has no understanding of good faith. They don't have to be physically violent. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:53, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
Thank you. Brief, but informative. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 18:08, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Hoover Institute: Fake pandemic

The Hoover Institute says the current crisis response assessment is in real life cooked up by attention-starved journalists. The CDC estimates that between 9.3 million and 49 million Americans get the seasonal flu every year since 2010. I have been providing graphs of the totals daily. Except Italy and China: well under 200,000. In the U.S., except New York: 13,800 cases, 1,500 hospitalized. In Georgia, the out-and-out conservative state with the most fatalities? 14 deaths.

I would challenge the only people who need to be home or taking onerous precautions are people who live or work with (or are) the elderly and infirm. And of course, are symptomatic. Or are in the remarkably few "hot-spots". The world outside of Italy and China may have already reached an inflection point. Let's raise our voices and get America back to work. I'm not going to have my head turned and frightened by leftist prizes-seeking journalists.

It's an epidemic not a pandemic; we're victims of word meaning slippage: anything else said in earnest is verbal abuse! VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 17:31, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Let me make this as simple as possible: if this forecast is correct, far, far more people will die from the economic crisis this spring than the virus.—Alex Berenson (former New York Times reporter responding to prospect of 30% unemployment and -50% GDP predicted as possible April 1 to June 30 by St. Louis Federal Reserve). VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 18:51, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Liability issues (caused by the excesses of trial lawyers) are causing large gatherings to be cancelled, not good science. This could be a "tragedy of the commons" in the making. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 19:12, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

You'll note that few legislators are offering immediate relief to their constituents. Those same legislators are also still getting regular paychecks from the government! Coincidence? VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 19:16, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Update: Emergency federal economic relief legislation just failed 47-47. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 19:24, 22 March 2020 (EDT)

Too soon to draw any conclusions. Chinese data is junk. We have only two data sets and models to follow, South Korea or Italy. The point of the lockdown is to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system. There are not enough hospital beds. Domestic air travel is not restricted, meaning one infection can spread anywhere. It's too soon make any assumptions about the future course of the virus. We'll have some better understanding by about May 8. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 00:33, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
RobS, take global data; most of it started with a few infections. Subtract out China and Italy with anomalous beginnings. This is your best "big picture". What do we see? Inflection point, Rob, inflection point! We're on our second day, don't jinx it! VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 01:25, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
I've just been told we should not focus on jinxes, but rather on prayers as mentioned on other parts of this page. My apologies for the mix-up. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 01:47, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
Hospitalizations: You and I mentioned 15-20% hospitalizations for 20-44? The upside is there're not very many of them. If you read what I said closely, you can backfigure and see there are not many hospitalized patients (admittedly, not yet) circa 3,000. New York may be over-tested, so while there are a lot of patients, there is also a lot of focus on treating it. They could benefit from measures the rest of the country may be over-doing. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 01:33, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
U.S. resurges in infections: U.S. doing worse than the rest of the world in infection growth; another growth per day increase like yesterday even excluding New York. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 02:08, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
As I suggested the other day, it's not really an 'infection rate'; it's a 'testing rate'. Until a vaccine ('a vaccine', Ha!) Until the stuff is massively produced in massive Petri dishes and distributed worldwide, compliments of the U.S. taxpayer, so that everyone can be injected and build up antibodies, the priority now is to prevent swamping the hospitals and infecting medical workers. Sure, not everyone will voluntarily take the antidote, but if half the planet gets infected with the antidote, we can probably claim victory (at least until next time in a few years some genius in a lab comes up with a new bioweapon to pose a new threat).
Right now, education about prevention - prevention of becoming infected and spreading the infection when infected, is the only tool we got. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 02:30, 23 March 2020 (EDT)

In 2019, between October 1, 2019 and February 1, 2020 between 12,000 to 30,000 people died due to the common flu and it was a difficult but not epidemic season.[46]

It's too bad that Americans and some other Westerners didn't learn better habits and get in better general health/shape due to the common flu (influenza) which has been around for hundreds (or perhaps thousands) of years. America had its first heavy-duty influenza epidemic in 1918 (Spanish flu). Americans should have developed better habits/health by now. The Japanese, despite their aged population (oldest population on earth), has not suffered as much as many countries and one of the reasons is that their citizens have the habit of wearing masks when they are sick.[47]Conservative (talk) 06:50, 23 March 2020 (EDT)

Conservative's prediction

In 2020, there will probably be a better political environment for a social conservative in the US President race.[2] Also, given the current fiscal crises in Europe that seems to be growing larger, perhaps in 2020 a fiscal conservative will be electable as well. Like a cross between Ron Paul and Rick Santorum/Michelle Bachmann. Conservative 00:25, 11 April 2012 (EDT)

The incumbent president Donald Trump is putting social conservatives in the federal judiciary and has the evangelical Christians and social conservatives Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos in very prominent roles in the administration (VP and the Secretary of Education respectively). Traditionally, the incumbent is the odds on favorite to be elected. Amidst a time of national crisis, Joe Biden has disappeared from the public sphere to such a degree that #whereisJoe is trending on Twitter. Generally speaking, in a time of national crisis, people are reluctant to change horses midstream (And a majority of Americans approve of the job Trump is doing in terms of the coronavirus crisis). As far as Europe, right-wing governments and policies have swept through it and Brexit is one of the reasons Trump was elected.
And as far as fiscal conservatism, I did say "perhaps". Furthermore, in times of national crisis, fiscal conservatism is understandably not practiced. Yet, I was ahead of the curve in terms of covering the underlying reasons for the coronavirus pandemic which was a black swan event. I covered the topics of Dietary practices of atheists, Atheist hospitals, Atheism and health, Atheism in medicine, Atheism and obesity, Global atheism and aging populations, Atheism and women and atheism and leadership which are all relevant in terms of the coronavirus pandemic which was spawned in atheist controlled, mainland China and has also gained a lot of traction in secular Europe (also has an obesity problem and an aging population. See: Secular Europe and obesity). I say this due to: Wuhan wild-animal market; the initial poor response of the Chinese government and its medical system; and the fact that obese, people with underlying medical conditions, who are elderly males are the most at risk population for the coronavirus pandemic. See: Atheism and the Wuhan coronavirus epidemic.
Furthermore, there is excellent data showing that evangelical Christianity surges during times of calamity/death and economic uncertainty. See: Praying for a Recession: The Business Cycle and Protestant Religiosity in the United States by David Beckworth, SSRN Electronic Journal · January 2009 and Why a literal reading of the Genesis is surging in the world. Why a a literal reading of the Genesis will increase in the Western World. Evangelicals are a key voting block that got Trump elected.Conservative (talk) 23:43, 22 March 2020 (EDT)
The global economy is collapsing right now. Like they say in AA, 'One Day at a Time.' RobSDe Plorabus Unum 00:39, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
Steve Bannon says Italy's economy is in trouble. If by collapsing you mean "going into a recession" I believe you about the global economy. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 01:16, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
The wonderful thing about American, Christian, social conservatives (and American, Christian, social conservatism for that matter) is that they are not only resilient in times of trouble, they are anti-fragile. They actually grow stronger during times of adversity. Not one of Jesus' apostles cracked under adversity/persecution. On the other hand, American left of center atheists often crack/crumble under pressure and when things don't go their way. For example, when David Silverman, ex-president of the American Atheists was fired from his job and he lost many of this atheist friends, Silverman said it caused him a "horrific level of pain" that "damaged" him and that he now has textbook symptoms of Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.[48]. When secular leftists lost the 2016 election and Donald Trump gloriously won the election, many secular leftists mentally broke down. The website Marketwatch reported concerning the aftermath of the 2016 presidential race: Donald Trump’s win is causing a surge in demand for mental health services.[49] See: Secular leftists and psychogenic illness
The bottom line is that Christian, social conservatives are going to have more children and thus there will be more Christian, conservative voters. On the other hand, all the institutions that support secular leftism are growing weaker (the media, public schools, academia, etc.). For example, the coronavirus crisis is boosting homeschooling and online learning. It is not strengthening brick and mortar public schools and state colleges/universities. Conservative (talk) 04:30, 23 March 2020 (EDT)

Because they lost the election in 2016, the secular leftists' rage caused them to push for Donald Trump's impeachment in the latter portion of 2019 and the beginning of February 2020. As a result, it focused Americans' attention away from coronavirus epidemic/pandemic problem. Of course, this was totally counterproductive to their cause as the coronavirus pandemic is going to grow evangelical Christianity and social conservatism!Conservative (talk) 04:40, 23 March 2020 (EDT)

Italy becoming a big economic problem could cause the EU to break up.
The coronavirus pandemic is causing nationalism and border protection ideology to increase. On the other hand, it is hurting Chinese globalism, EU globalism and American corporation based globalism.Conservative (talk) 07:19, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
I endeavor to be a realist. The oddsmaker websites say Biden/Trump are now neck and neck in terms of winning the presidency. I think the coronavirus is enabling Biden to hide from the public and making gaffe after gaffe which reveals his cognitive decline. Hopefully, the debates will reveal his cognitive decline as Trump will be far more blunt/aggressive than Sanders.Conservative (talk) 07:51, 23 March 2020 (EDT)
"Donald Trump, M.D." is going to be reelected.[50][51]Conservative (talk) 06:28, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

Coronavirus pandemic: Trump vs. socialists/communists

The Chinese Communist Party botched its initial handling of the coronavirus situation which caused the world to be ignorant of their problem (they practiced censorship). In addition, they learned nothing from SARS and did not get rid of their wild-animal markets which may have been the source of the outbreak of coronavirus pandemic.

5% of the world's coronavirus cases are in New York City. It is now the epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic. New York City's Mayor Deblasio (who is left-leaning), has not lead by example in terms of healthy behavior and New York State's Mayor Andrew Cuomo points out the people are crowding in parks and not social distancing. "When Mayor de Blasio dragged aides and members of his NYPD security detail to his Brooklyn YMCA Monday morning amidst the coronavirus outbreak, fellow fitness enthusiasts were coughing and sneezing — and a mentally ill person was walking around touching the equipment, a gym source said. “It’s crazy that he made his staff and detail come with him to the gym and expose them like that,” the source said."[52]

Italy's left leaning government has a huge coronavirus problem. They did not close their borders early.

Next time you hear a Democrat/leftist criticize Trump about his handling of the coronavirus pandemic, remind them of what the leftists have done.Conservative (talk) 07:34, 23 March 2020 (EDT)

Bingo. We're at war. Modern warfare does not consist of tactical nuclear weapons or conventional armies. It's bioweapons to accomplish or preserve a political/economic end. Unlike 9/11, which happened in a moment, this is a continuous ongoing attack for months. We must understand that and pace our reactions accordingly.
It is no secret the CCP has no regard for human life. The past 15 years, since MFN in 2002, we've deceived ourselves thinking free trade would influence the CCP to become more humane and democratic. We were wrong.
The trade war - cutting CCP's dependence on access to the American consumer market for its continued survival, threatened the CCP and made them desperate to maintain their power. So are the CCP's globalist allies at Davos with massive investment in China and who control American media. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:28, 23 March 2020 (EDT)

Ann Coulter, 3 minutes ago

Haley Byrd: I am so sad.
The argument that the elderly and weak may just have to die to enrich the young and strong — painted as some sort of sacrifice, rather than a horrific outcome that we should fight against — is so bleak and hopeless.
Lord, change hearts. Lord, protect the weak.

Ann: No one is saying that. We're saying: Protect THEM! Over 70s (and those with underlying medical conditions) should remain quarantined. Anyone who goes near them should wear face masks and gloves. But the rest of us should get back to work and create herd immunity. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 00:18, 24 March 2020 (EDT)

Overwhelmed medical professionals are probably going to have to practice advanced triage in some cases during the coronavirus crisis in the USA. Under advanced triage, people who have low prospects of survival and who often require more extensive care are not treated. Advanced triage is probably being practiced in Italy now. Advanced triage is like "battlefield medicine" where medical professionals are overwhelmed and have to make tough choices.
Prevention is especially the best course of action for older people or people with preexisting medical conditions.
I am not happy about advanced triage being likely used but it is a grim reality. It will save the most lives. Baby boomers will just have to suck it up in various cases and make the ultimate sacrifice for the greater good. Unfortunately, the rate of spread of the disease will probably be faster than the creation of new ventilators in some areas like New York City.
America prepared for major wars with big defense spending, but inadequately prepared for a pandemic. In 2015, Bill Gates warned about a pandemic hitting the world, but his warning (which I thought was a reasonable warning) was not sufficiently heeded. I am not a fan of Bill Gates and I think he is a mixed bag in terms of what he supports. Conservative (talk) 00:52, 24 March 2020 (EDT)
Huh? I thought Sarah Palin was a liar for saying Obamacare would produce Death Panels. Now they are reality. And somebody explain how universal coverage and single payer will get me a hospital bed and treatment when there are more sick people than hospital beds.
While your at it, explain to me why I should pay for somebody else's healthcare who refuses to wear a mask, doesn't wash their hands, touches their face, picks their nose, smokes a pack a day and vapes, buys and sells opioids on the street where they are at risk of gunshot wounds or inflicting gunshot wounds, and has sex with strangers in the restroom of gay bars during a global pandemic? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:55, 24 March 2020 (EDT)
Ventilators are complex machines that require hours of testing to detect failures/flaws. It will take at least 3 months to ramp up production so they are producing very large amounts of them.[53] Maybe by that time, many people will die in NYC, etc. In 2015, New York State and NYC were warned to buy 16,000 ventilators, but they declined to do so.[54] On top of this, NYC Mayor Deblasio is doing a bad job of getting people to socially distance in NYC. NYC has a significant Chinese-American population and of course some have family/business ties to China plus many people are entering NYC after going to Europe (people with family/business ties to Europe, vacationers, etc). The whole situation is a "perfect storm" of needless coronavirus deaths.Conservative (talk) 02:32, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

Pro tip

When an inflection point appears on an "amount per day" graph, by definition, that means the "amount per day" is decelerating. That is what has happened the past two days worldwide, outside of China and Italy. Unfortunately, that is not true for the United States, even subtracting both recent broader reporting and total New York cases. We will probably find out within two hours whether those trends are continuing. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 00:42, 24 March 2020 (EDT)

The U.S. infection amounts are still accelerating, and the worldwide-Italy-China infection amounts are back to accelerating. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 01:34, 24 March 2020 (EDT)

Italy's infections have been decelerating (slowed growth) for two days. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 01:41, 24 March 2020 (EDT)

I just posted on MPR how the commie Marxist head of the WHO tweeted the virus is "accelerating" cause it took 67 days for the first 100,000, 11 days for the next, and 4 days to reach 300,000. Is testing accelerating, or the infection accelerating? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 02:11, 24 March 2020 (EDT)

Coronavirus triage/lockdowns are coming to the USA/UK. Germany is better prepared

Unless an excellent treatment appears on the scene, coronavirus triage/lockdowns are coming to the USA/UK.

"Basically, the less strict the measures, the more likely it is that the number of people requiring treatment will overwhelm the available medical serves at the peak. Hence the term "flattening the curve" which refers to the peak of the bell curve. Different nations are at very different risk in this regard; Germany has 25,000 ICU beds with full respiratory support, or one for every 3,312 people, vs 4,000 for the UK, or one for every 16,610 people.

The USA has 32,000 ICU beds, which puts it right in between at one ICU bed for every 10,000 people. This means that if the mitigation calculations are correct, the medical resources would be overwhelmed by a factor of 8x, thereby leading to fatalities in excess of 2 million. The suppression measures are expected to reduce that by three orders of magnitude, which is why it is safe to expect that they will be imposed, sooner rather than later, in the US, the UK, and other countries that have not yet officially adopted them."[55]Conservative (talk) 02:21, 24 March 2020 (EDT)

Governor Andrew Cuomo needs to quarantine New York City except for emergency personnel

CNN:

"Russian President Vladimir Putin said this week his country managed to stop the mass spread of coronavirus -- and that the situation was "under control," thanks to early and aggressive measures to keep more people from getting the disease.

Does Russia have coronavirus under control? According to information released by Russian officials, Putin's strategy seems to have worked. The number of confirmed Russian coronavirus cases is surprisingly low, despite Russia sharing a lengthy border with China and recording its first case back in January.

Russia's early response measures -- such as shutting down its 2,600-mile border with China as early as January 30, and setting up quarantine zones -- may have contributed to the delay of a full-blown outbreak, some experts say."[56]

Until Cuomo and the New York legislature quarantines New York City (NYC), I doubt they have the level of commitment necessary to improve things quickly in the state. Maybe Cuomo can issue some kind of executive order and not even need the New York state legislature.

But people have fled NYC and are fleeing NYC, so quarantining NYC will not have the level of effectiveness it would have had earlier. The horse is already out of the barn to a certain degree. Conservative (talk) 14:01, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

Of course, if Cumo quarantined NYC, he probably would not be reelected, but he would save lives. There is evidence to suggest that pro-abortion Cuomo is not an extremely dedicated person when it comes to the preservation of life. "In New York state, Governor Andrew Cuomo signed a law that makes abortion legal, even after the unborn child is viable, so long as the abortionist makes a “reasonable and good-faith judgment” that abortion will protect the pregnant woman’s health."[57]Conservative (talk) 14:13, 25 March 2020 (EDT)
If Democrats had any brains, they'd dump Biden and nominate Fredo's older brother. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:29, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

Dow sees best day since 1933

There is no clearer sign that we have successfully weathered the Wuhan virus panic than this: "Asian shares jump after Dow sees biggest gain since 1933." Perhaps U.S. stocks are up because of the bailout going through Congress. But that wouldn't explain the rise of Asian stocks. PeterKa (talk) 04:30, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra.
Until more coronavirus testing is done, America is flying somewhat blind. And ultimately until a vaccine and/or succcessful treatment is developed and shown to be safe, the battle is not completely over.
I recall the story of a French figure who drank some water to prove to the public it was safe from disease. He died due to drinking something unhealthy in the water. I cannot find the story, but I did find this story: Darius: I drank dirty water from the Thames to prove it could be made safe… but it put me into a coma.Conservative (talk) 12:13, 25 March 2020 (EDT)

It was the British writer Arnold Bennett. In 1931, he drank a glass of tap water to show everyone how safe it was and caught typhus.Rafael (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

The Taiwanese/Singaporeans/Japanese seem to be doing the best to combat the coronavirus. You have to be proactive and the public has to adopt/possess healthy behaviors.
It is very remarkable how the Japanese developed wearing masks when they are sick long before this pandemic so they dodged a lot of the coronavirus pandemic. I guess when you have the public living like sardines in some cases (subways have professional pushers in Japan to get people to fit in the subway cars) you have to develop smart countermeasures when it comes to the spreading of disease. Also, the Japanese have an aged population, but on the other hand, there is great respect of elders/aged so their young people are perhaps not engaging in risky behavior in relation to spreading the coronavirus disease. Conservative (talk) 12:32, 25 March 2020 (EDT)
Read: Why Japan appears to have avoided a mass coronavirus outbreak.Conservative (talk) 12:39, 25 March 2020 (EDT)
I see this downturn as a major buying opportunity. After all, people who make money in the stock market buy low and sell high. Research has shown that people who make significant money in the stock market are somewhat contrarian. And they carefully weigh the benefits/risks rather than take a lotto mentality. As long as the stock is a fundamentally sound business and not overleveraged, which is never good in a downturn, buying a stock can be a great opportunity in a downturn. Conservative (talk) 19:49, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

Trump's approval numbers are way up

The panic over the Wuhan virus has been Trump's time to shine. His net approval is now at -3.2 percent.[58] That means that a majority of Americans disapprove of him, which would be bad news for most previous presidents. But Trump's ratings are typically in the -8 to -12 range. He is certainly more popular now than when he beat Hillary. To get reelected, he doesn't need a majority. He just needs to be more popular than whoever he is running against. IMO, Trump is up primarily because the media and the Dems are using the epidemic in an ugly and partisan way. This makes Trump look good by comparison. PeterKa (talk) 03:01, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

There is always a "hidden vote" among conservatives and Republicans in polling samples and later reflected in election results. Nationally, it can averages 3-8%, and higher. In Trumps case, measured over three years of his presidency, I'd put it at 4-8%, and likely on the higher end of 8%.
Largely two factors contribute to this (1) the nature of conservatives who do not wear their politics on their sleeve, and (2) the unprecedented intimidation factor unleashed against conservatives. While the intimidation factor was deployed against conservatives in the previous 8 years period to silence critics of Obama by labeling them as racist, it provided a good training ground among conservs to bite their lip. That's exactly why Trump's election was so surprising among many - liberal commies assumed the intimidation factor led to genuine conversions to leftism. It didn't. It created anger and resentment against communists and the communist movement. The communists have not let up, became more aggressive, and now threaten to destroy all of us. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 04:06, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
Independent voters, unlike Democrat/GOP voters are fickle. And the election is a long way off. Trump is probably doing better than Obama at this point. On the other hand, there are no major third-party candidates like in 2016.
In November of 2020, many people are going to ask, "What have you done for me lately?". Bush Sr. had an improving economy, but it wasn't enough to be reelected.
The major things stacked in Trump's favor are: incumbent presidents usually win; there is solidarity among Republicans; Americans often rally around a president in times of crisis if the president is sufficiently competent; Biden may not be able to bring a great many Bernie Sanders supporters into the Biden fold; Trump has a lot of appeal among white, blue-collar voters (formerly called Reagan Democrats); the Democratic Party has been bleeding blue-collar workers, blacks (especially male blacks) and people who dislike rabid identity politics and political correctness.
In addition, Biden is cognitively impaired and has a bad habit of making up tall tales to make himself look good (the latest example is him saying he worked as a professor[59]). Voters, especially millennials, want authenticity. Biden shares with Elizabeth Warren the "Pocahantas factor". Biden doesn't seem to be learning from his mistake of making up tall tales in terms of a fake bio which caused him to withdraw from a presidential candidacy in 1988 where he tried to appropriate the bio of British politician Neil Kinnock.[60]
Steve Bannon has maintained for some time that 2020 is going to be a reelection dogfight for Trump and not a cakewalk. He is probably right as the USA is a divided country. If you are a Christian, I would pray Trump is reelected. Biden would be a disaster. He would be worse than Hillary Clinton who at least has her faculties. Both Biden/Clinton are very corrupt though.Conservative (talk) 04:26, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
I left out that lately the Democrats have been acting like clowns which independent voters do not like. Nancy Pelosi is definitely a drag on the ticket. The Mueller/impeachment shams and the pork laden coronavirus rescue bill that Pelosi had to withdraw remind independent voters that Democrats are not focusing on things that they care about.Conservative (talk) 04:40, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
Trump rise in the polls suggests that the public shares his concern that all the anti-virus measures may harm the economy. PeterKa (talk) 07:45, 26 March 2020 (EDT)
The Resistance reacts to Donald Trump. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:16, 28 March 2020 (EDT)

"Donald Trump, M.D." is going to be reelected. TrumpCure worketh mightily

"Donald Trump, M.D." is going to be reelected.[61][62]

“HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE & AZITHROMYCIN, taken together, have a real chance to be one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine.” - Donald Trump.[63]

I hope this helps clarify my position that Donald Trump is the odds on favorite to be reelected.

I now predict Trumpslide 2020! Conservative (talk) 06:37, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

In 1918, the medical establishment distributed flu vaccines of unproven effectiveness on the grounds people needed hope and something was better than nothing. AFAIK, no one called for an investigation or treated this as a scandal. This time around, the media seems to have a vested interest in the, "We're all gonna die!" narrative. PeterKa (talk) 07:37, 26 March 2020 (EDT)

Thomas Massie

Thomas Massie is one of the very few people to consistently stand up to the welfare state and the warfare state. And Trump's viciously attacking him for doing nothing less but demand a roll call vote for the emergency spending bill that's currently being debated in the House.[64] Not happy about this at all.--Geopolitician (talk) 13:26, 27 March 2020 (EDT)

The Great Society welfare state of LBJ was created during a time of great prosperity and filled with over-optimism. It was thought that big government could do anything. Clearly, it failed and was based more on hubris than reality. America needs to offer more school choice and also cut back the welfare state so people are more productive.
As far as Donald Trump, I understand his frustration with Congress. On the other hand, I think he is over-optimistic about starting to rev up the USA economically again starting on Easter. Conservative (talk) 14:14, 27 March 2020 (EDT)
Massie is an anti-big government Kentucky Republican in the mold of Rand Paul. He's probably vying for McConnell's seat when McConnell retires. What does Rand Paul have to say? or McConnell who shepherded the bill? Do you think Massie can beat either in a primary? Do you think Mconnell and Paul have no influence over him or his district? McConnell and Paul have let the dog off the leash to run wild and do his job. When he's done, he can be let back into the house. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:49, 27 March 2020 (EDT)

The Babe Ruth of coronavirus physicians: Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, M.D.

See also: Vladimir Zelenko and Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment

Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, M.D., a New York State doctor: I treated 350 coronavirus patients with 100% success using hydroxychloroquine and zinc. There were no hospitilizations, intubations or deaths among Zelenko's 350 patients. [65][66][67] See also: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment

Look at Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, M.D. work with coronavirus patients in light of what I am about to describe in terms of his success rate. You have a batter in a baseball game who is hitting 300 home runs out of 300 pitches. Zelenko has treated 699 coronavirus patients successfully and not one patient death or very bad experience reported. See also: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment

Babe Ruth had a .342 battling average. Dr. Zelenko's batting average is considerably higher. All 699 of his coronavirus patients are still alive! See: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment

Deny that Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, M.D. is the Babe Ruth of coronavirus doctors and lose all credibility! Conservative (talk) 14:11, 27 March 2020 (EDT)

My guess is that doctors will be slow to adopt the fine work of Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, M.D. because people are generally resistant to change. Generally, with anything new there are the early adopters, midstream adopters and late adopters. And the CDC/FDA have a history of being slow pokes even in the face of an emergency like COVID-19 (bungling of the coronavirus testing) so they will not endorse Zelenko's work until many unnecessary deaths happen.Conservative (talk) 14:14, 27 March 2020 (EDT)
Start the page, Vladimir Zelenko. We need it. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:40, 27 March 2020 (EDT)
Incidentally, the name sounds more Ukrainian than Russian (the 'o' at the end is the giveaway} so saying something like, "his family emigrated from Russia" rather than labeling him as a "Russian Jew" may be more accurate for now until it can be verified or clarified. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:43, 27 March 2020 (EDT)
Many doctors receive little education on nutrition. My guess is that many doctors who try to somewhat copy Zelenko's work will leave out the zinc he uses as part of his protocols. I think this will be a big mistake based on what I read about this matter. And then ignorant doctors/journalists will make poor statements about the efficacy of using hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus. Conservative (talk) 15:06, 27 March 2020 (EDT)
Some of the sources I quote indicate he is a Russian-American and none of them indicate he is a Ukranian-American. Maybe his family emigrated from Ukraine to Russia.
Ukraine was part of Russia until 1992; Ukrainian Jews who emigrated from Ukraine to America between 1882 and 1992 are all on the record as having emigrated from Russia, or as "Russian Jews." It's a question he alone could answer. That's why I made the suggestion on phrasing. If my hunch is correct, it's remains no matter what develops in the future. Again, I encourage you to begin the bio article now and not wait. Put all the research you have in that page. Some can be spun off into a hydroxychloroquine article, which we also need right now. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 23:48, 27 March 2020 (EDT)

I do realize the cost/benefit issue of larger sample sizes, multiple studies and longer trials to test the safety of drugs. There is a great benefit to this. Yet, when you have no effective treatments that have undergone such a process and you have a pandemic that can have exponential growth due to people not yet taking the pandemic seriously and social distancing enough, a prudent doctor weighs the cost/benefits of various potential treatments and then takes action. The alternative of lung damage and death in some coronavirus cases is clearly a bad option.

Many secular leftists are so cognitively inflexible that they actually criticize doctors who make judicious choices with the most promising and available potential treatments rather than go through some lengthy government procedure in terms of testing drugs. A rule of thumb in medicine is do no harm. It's so obvious given the shortage of ventilators and other medical resources that early intervention using a safe option like Zelenko is doing is preferable to lung damage or death.Wikignome72 (talk) 17:11, 27 March 2020 (EDT)

You're witnessing history. Be part of it by creating those two articles.
This event, to all the school kids across America, will have the same impact on their lives that 9/11 had on the Millenial generation. Tulsi Gabbard, Seth Moulton, and Pete Buttigieg, today's Millennial leaders, were all shaped by 9/11. We live in momentous times. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 23:54, 27 March 2020 (EDT)
Liberal elitist: You don't get it. We were about to have a billion-dollar contract for Big Pharma to bid on to create the COVID-19 vaccine, where the FDA would award it to the company that was the most liberal! And now, this Zelenko guy swoops in and ruins it! Would it have killed him to wait to announce his remedy until after the contract was awarded? VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 23:19, 27 March 2020 (EDT)
Liberal elitist: There may be a new virus called the Hanta virus coming soon. This time pipe down about cures and don't blow it! VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 23:22, 27 March 2020 (EDT)
If you read stuff on Twitter, there is substantiation about what Conservatives says about this. For example some top doctor dismissed Zelenko because that doctor claims his treatment hasn't had "clinical trials". Actually Zelenko had been quietly performing a clinical trial over the past month of the same kind that are commonly accepted in medical journals. All the FDA has to do is allow "expedited approval". VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 16:44, 28 March 2020 (EDT)
Hence my satire. If people stop and think about it, it's really embarrassing. It makes the large pharmaceutical companies look like dinosaurs for not having come up with it before Zelenko. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 17:32, 28 March 2020 (EDT)
I kinda like this introductory phrase, "Dr. Vladimir Zelenko pioneered the successful treatment of the deadly Wuhan coronavirus with hydroxychloroquine...." RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:28, 28 March 2020 (EDT)
Or you could say, "treatment of the deadly..." rather than "successful treatment" until all the clinical trials and science comes in. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:35, 28 March 2020 (EDT)
Again: New York State blocked the use of Zelenko's "off-label" drug combination on Monday, March 23 until it could complete its own clinical trials. Why? So they could take the credit? Zelenko's work was shut down and would have been disregarded had the White House not overridden New York State's decision and allowed Zelenko, and prescribers of his treatment across the nation, to resume their work on Tuesday afternoon (March 24). VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 18:43, 28 March 2020 (EDT)
New York State (NYS) may screw it up. The may not use zinc supplementation like Zelenko did. Hydroxychloroquine increases the uptake of zinc, but if the person does not have enough zinc in their system to make the medication work properly, the results will probably be not as good as Zelenko's results. Many doctors do not have a robust knowledge about nutrition. New York State has a reputation for not listening to its citizenry so it would not surprise me if Zelenko receives zero access to the decision makers in NYS government. Conservative (talk) 19:15, 28 March 2020 (EDT)

Democrats fight the cure

The Dems are taking a hard line against chloroquine. The governors of Michigan and Nevada have banned its use to treat the Wuhan virus. It's already been established that chloroquine by itself is more effective than any other current COVID-19 treatment: "Bayer has donated three million pills to the federal government, confident from its experience in China that the drug could push down the number of people who need to go to the hospital — so long as it goes to the right patients." The results from the preliminary testing for the chloroquine plus antibiotic combination sound too good to be true. For the U.S. media, a cure is the nightmare scenario. They are currently using the story of a couple in Arizona who ate aquarium cleaner to scare Americans away from this drug. The media is covering the epidemic as if it was the latest Billy Bush tape, Mueller report, or Ukraine phone call. One can only hope that these kind of people never get power again. As they once said of Grover Cleveland, "We love him for the enemies he has made." India, it seems, can approach these things without America's hangups. They are moving full speed ahead with this drug, according to today's headlines. PeterKa (talk) 22:07, 28 March 2020 (EDT)

Sweden, liberal paradise, isn't going into lockdown or taking any of the other antivirus measures that the American media seems to think is so important.[68] Swedish women all work, so there would be no to take care of the children if the schools are closed, according to Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s state epidemiologist. Tegnell came up with this policy after talking to some other health bureaucrats. As far as what the politicians or the public thinks, no one cares. It's a nation of sheep, at least so far. The county is up to 3,460 confirmed COVID-19 cases and 112 deaths. Meanwhile, Denmark and Norway are both in lockdown. PeterKa (talk) 23:20, 28 March 2020 (EDT)
It's a classic story of fake news engineering. First Trump, in response to a question, discusses the prospects of hydroxychloroquine. Then the Arizona couple read "chlorquine phosphate" on fish tank cleaner and drink it. The husband dies (they are a traditional heterosexual couple). The wife tells emergency room personnel they read "chloroquine" on the label after Trump discussed it. MSM reports Trump told people to drink fish tank cleaner. Now, after Gallup reports Trump's approval at 61%, MSM wants to drop the daily Coronavirus Task Force briefing during the national emergency cause it's driving Trump's ratings and Trump allegedly is giving out misinformation. But in reality, it was the media that said chloroquine phosphate was a cure, not Trump.
So now Democrat governors are keeping people from access to hydrooxychloroquine, using as an excuse the media's claim that Trump said chloroquine phosphate was a cure, and as an excuse for MSM dropping White House daily briefings driving Trump's poll numbers. It's called, "controlling the narrative." Democrat governors are literally willing to let their people die in an effort to defeat Trump. 23:58, 28 March 2020 (EDT)RobSDe Plorabus Unum

Dr. Fauci in New England Journal of Medicine

This is from a recent journal paper by Anthony Fauci, America's most favorite doctor:

If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%. This suggests that the overall clinical consequences of Covid-19 may ultimately be more akin to those of a severe seasonal influenza (which has a case fatality rate of approximately 0.1%) or a pandemic influenza (similar to those in 1957 and 1968) rather than a disease similar to SARS or MERS, which have had case fatality rates of 9 to 10% and 36%, respectively.[69]

It's already been cited nine times. Go Fauci! PeterKa (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

Yes, this follows much reading I've done in other areas. Untested asymptomatic carriers is the big problem. Not enough test kits. If the total number of infections could be quantified, the mortality rate is something like 0.5% compared to the influenza rate of 0.1%
Ultimately, the only solution is for everybody to become infected and build antibodies. It's just the size of the initial dose that a person becomes infected with (coupled with pre-existing underlying conditions) that's of concern.
Risk containment, risk mitigation, risk management. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 10:56, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
This is why you see the pressure on Recovered patients to become blood plasma donors to help spread anti-bodies. We need a good solid source that says a Recovered patient is at low risk for re-infection. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:04, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
Thank you, Peter. Thank you, Rob. Something to consider: Testing for the CCP malady only detects the virus. What's yet to be tried, and what has generated a good deal of argument in Great Britain, is testing for the CCP virus antibody. You, or your loved ones, may already have contracted the CCP virus! VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 14:40, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
The Federalist today: Infectious Disease Experts: To Beat Coronavirus, Consider Voluntary Infection Of Healthy People. It would basically be an immunization program. Volunteers could be given priority if they commit to being plasma donors after injection. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:21, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
With my luck, I'd be one of the 0.1% who have a psychotic reaction. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 15:49, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
Correct me if I'm wrong: at a rate of testing 25,000 per day, it would take 35 years to test 325 million Americans. We ought to have a vaccine by then. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 02:10, 1 April 2020 (EDT)

Chinese Cold War

The Chinese Cold War is on. Diplomatic and trade Relations will not be the same be as they were between 2002 - 2020 for the foreseeable future. I don't know if the name, Chinese Cold War will become the common phrase in the immediate future, but we need to begin weaning people out of their comfort zone of cheap Walmart, Dollar General, and Family Dollar consumer goods, and see the economic opportunity of America becoming self-sufficient again. Yes, this will require a period of inflation as Americans adjust to paying higher prices for the higher wages American workers demand.

It's unlikely we'll return to the pre-diplomatic relations era (1950 - 1975, Korea and Vietnam Wars), but that is unknown, given how the CCP has reacted to tariffs in its desperation to survive. This is all very real, and our reporting on MPR should reflect this basic paradigm shift. See The Federalist, 5 Major Paradigm Shifts The Wuhan Flu Crisis Has Revealed Americans Need, March 26, 2020 for some basic guidance. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:01, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

Chinese cause Chinese Communist Party Virus outbreaks in China, in Italy and in New York

As if RobS's drastic reports on diplomatic relations between China and the United States weren't enough, now it turns out that there are more speakers of Chinese languages in New York, than there are speakers of any other foreign language except Spanish. Also, the highly-infected New York is the only state where this is true. We can only conclude that the Chinese play a big part in causing the CCP virus to spread. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 14:30, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

Well, it would help to know how many and who of the 360,000 Chinese students in U.S. traveled home for the New Years holiday, and where they reside now. But it's probably too late for that; that should have been done in February. Still, matching those students who traveled home to their geographic location in the U.S. would be helpful. I assume the CDC or DHS or somebody's been working on this by now.
Be sure to thank the Chinese communist government for where we are today.
China distributed faulty coronavirus test kits throughout Europe
Add Ukraine to the list of countries that received the piece of crap COVID-19 tests from China

RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:26, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

I'd like to "thank" Red China for the 3,107 needless deaths they caused yesterday by sending their public information minister to the electric chair. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 15:34, 30 March 2020 (EDT)
Electric chair? What? They couldn't even harvest his organs afterwards. No revenue for the state. This is a sign things are going downhill for the CCP, when they let emotional vengeance overtake rational judgment and greed. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:43, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

Why can't we be more like Sweden?

While the rest the world deals with the Wuhan virus by imposing lockdowns and quarantines, Sweden goes its own way: "Schools, kindergartens, bars, restaurants, ski resorts, sports clubs, hairdressers: all remain open, weeks after everything closed down in next door Denmark and Norway. Universities have been closed, and on Friday, the government tightened the ban on events to limit them to no more than 50 people."[70] PeterKa (talk) 21:06, 29 March 2020 (EDT)

Your Best Source for News from Sweden. He'll keep us updated on the situation. Also, I guess Ukraine is sitting on a coronavirus timebomb that's getting ready to explode. They have 3 reported deaths so far, and are woefully unprepared. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 21:47, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
Sources say, the German death rate is low cause they are trying to list as Cause of Death whatever other underlying condition may have existed, heart disease, etc. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 21:48, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
The British and Dutch prime ministers tried to keep their schools open using the herd immunity argument. Both of them had to reverse themselves. Covid-19 is not a disease of schoolchildren, but panicky parents are calling the shots everywhere except Sweden. Sweden's state epidemiologist decided to keep the schools open and everyone else does as they are told. Perhaps we can conclude that Sweden lacks real democracy. PeterKa (talk) 22:21, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
Just checked. Sweden has 3500 infections, 116 deaths w/3.1% fatality rate. They're about two weeks out from the panic phase. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:35, 29 March 2020 (EDT)
Update: Sweden: Coronavirus spreading rapidly in Somali community. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 00:19, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

Daydreams and speculation

I've been thinking about Pete Buttigieg. I've also been thinking: the fact that I don't compare the coronavirus outbreak to the AIDS epidemic proves that I'm not a bigot! It's not like they're not aware of the problem. In their humbleness, gays are only the second initial in the LGBT alliance. I wonder what they've been doing lately for non-sexually-active Bisexuals? In any case, I guess the "alliance" shows their reputations are pretty much interlocked, and they can all use each other as shields.

I wonder where Pete Buttigieg is? Does he think Marxist materialism, brought up as a visible reminder here, has served him well? Or served other gays well? Difficult as it is to believe, it seems that communism has, well, caused some kind of socio-political problem! Never saw that coming. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 16:55, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

So I'm pretty much just waiting to be spoonfed some information. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 16:57, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

When I picture someone thinking about the ultimate good it would bring, I can understand how such a person could develop in their politics, like their worldview, an exceedingly accommodating principle of reception for communist atrocities. For example Buttigieg's response to the possible recitation of a downside to communist-materialist motivated hazardous homosexual acts was to threaten to expose the private details of a prominent conservative's life. Fair enough. But I think an average bystander is beginning to be as accommodating toward the reception of publicly confronting whited sepulcres who are as uncaring about the consequences of their materialist political ideologies as the bald facts of their behavior would suggest. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 18:04, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

Right now Bootyboy is in briefing and training with DNC insiders, mapping out a campaign schedule of whoever the nominee (Biden? Fredo the Elder?} will be. With his Executive Branch experience (Sarah Palin had more higher level Executive experience than Bootyboy or Obama in 2008}, Bootyboy is assured a cabinet appointment, possibly HHS, HUD or VA. The HUD post for example, originally an appointment based purely on nepotism to Fredo the Elder with no qualifications, was a stepping stone to governor of New York, and now possibly the first Democrat NY governor since FDR to be an heir of FDR.
So Bootyboy will join the ranks of Julian Castro, Robert Reich, Donna Shalala, et al as a national figure running the State of Indiana's Democrat party.
My guess? VA Secretary. Dems can then boast how gays have made "progress" from the back of the bus, to acceptance in the military, to running the show. As Jesse Jackson would say, "From the Out House to the White House..." RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:00, 30 March 2020 (EDT)
He didn't do anything to mitigate the disastrous outcomes of his toxic beliefs. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 19:41, 30 March 2020 (EDT)
Buttigieg garnered about 7% of the Democrat base. The important thing is motivating them to the polls. Now, he also exposed a split in the gay rights movement between commie libs and conservatives, as well as a negative reaction among blacks. So if the net gain of that Democrat base of 7%, minus those revolted by him and everything he stands for among the electorate as a whole (say 4%+} is positive, he's an asset. I've no doubt the DNC can convince itself Buttigieg's net positive is real. It's probably really negative.
Let's say that 7% Democrat base is 3.5% of the electorate of as a whole; if 4% of the electorate as a whole can be considered anti-gay and motivated to polls to vote on that, Buttigieg's a net loser.
In some ways Buttigieg could be considered a case study; Democrats are very good at reading demographic statistics. They also can fall into self-deception and illusion. Many still believe 2008 marked a milestone shift where America became a "center left" nation after two and half centuries. It didn't. It elected Obama in 2008 cause white seniors 401{k}s got wiped out two weeks earlier, and Obama basically rigged and stole (i.e. IRS scandal, FISA abuse} the 2012 election (with help from the GOP establishment trying to put down the growing nationalist/populist movement, i.e. Tea Party. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:40, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

Woman who ingested cleaning fluid is a Democrat donor

Who would be dumb enough to ingest fish tank cleaner and then blame Trump? A Democratic donor, that's who: "Woman Who Ingested Fish Tank Cleaner Is Prolific Donor to Democratic Causes." Here's a chemistry lesson for any Democratic donors who may be reading this page: Chloroquine treats malaria and possibly Wuhan virus. Chloroquine phosphate helps your fish deal with parasites. Got it? PeterKa (talk) 21:37, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

The real tragedy, as Dems will spin it, is the one time a commie lib listened to Trump and acted on it, the consequences were deadly. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 21:45, 30 March 2020 (EDT)
Wrong. It's Hydroxychloroquine. The difference (besides the phosphate) is the presence of the -1 valence (OH)- hydroxide molecule. And it's already being used in the late stages of Wuhan virus treatment. Dr. Zelenko discovered it was very effective in the earlier stages of contagion as well. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 22:51, 30 March 2020 (EDT)
Oh ho, Peter. Your source, The Washington Free Beacon one for which I have a fair amount of respect, misrepresented the name of the chemical as badly as the female contributor to Emily's List who poisoned herself and her husband did! You're totally off the hook on this one! I wish I could say the same for the Washington Free Beacon! VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 01:02, 2 April 2020 (EDT)

Fox News: Democrat Hoaxers! [71] --Jpatt 13:59, 5 April 2020 (EDT)

Her husband is actually dead, and she was tried for abuse of some kind at a prior time. Steven Crowder was looking into it, Friday: "Scoop" VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 15:46, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
Her husband was murdered, by her, to be more specific. --Jpatt 20:42, 5 April 2020 (EDT)

Important news...

This headline itself says a lot about liberal hypocrisy in the courts: Judges block Texas, Ohio, Alabama from banning abortion as part of coronavirus response

While liberal governors enact lockdown and ban private social gatherings (such as trying to halt churchgoing, see here and here) out of general “public health concerns” to save lives, who knew that it's apparently all right to keep abortion clinics open? It's totally not like such will be a waste of public resources that are used to mass murder an entire group of people based on their age and size simply because of a nonexistent “right to choose” invented out of thin air... It seems that for Democrats, praying is less important than preying! And so much for the liberal concept of “separation of church and state”. Guess that doesn't exist anymore, according to current mainstream liberal rhetoric... --LiberaltearsYour reminder that Biden committed quid pro joe 23:07, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

It's not the right to choose that was invented out of thin air, but the presumption that aborting a "quickened" baby [that is, with a heartbeat] is a lawful, eligible choice. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 23:18, 30 March 2020 (EDT)


I see your point Vargas, but whole notion of “choice” in murdering unborn children as a right technically was invented out of thin air because of how it's always asserted as an absolute premise with no other actual reasoning (that makes any sense at all) preceding it. Also, do you find it really weird that most of the pro-abortion people who use that argument seem to claim that there's no such thing as moral absolutes? In addition, as quoted by Ronald Reagan (source), it seems that everyone who supports abortion is already born. --LiberaltearsYour reminder that Biden committed quid pro joe 23:34, 30 March 2020 (EDT)
The "quickening" argument dates back at least to the 1600s. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 23:49, 30 March 2020 (EDT)
Yeah, and besides, the whole notion of "choice" even being a factor in something as depraved as murdering babies before they're even born seems to be derived from Nietzschean philosophy, specifically that of the Nietzschean ubermensch (like Neo's reply to Agent Smith's nihilistic rant during the climax of Matrix Revelations that his even persisting in fighting Smith despite the utter hopelessness of even fighting him at all is because, and I quote, "I choose to."), and I'm pretty sure Nietzsche has absolutely NO place in the law of the land. Technically, using that same logic, I could easily cut my own perfectly good arm off for no reason other than, hey, it's my choice, and most people would rightfully denounce me as mad if I did that. Pokeria1 (talk) 23:55, 30 March 2020 (EDT)
If someone is explaining a personal choice, you should be respectful and say something concrete, like what you just said. But if you're in an argument, and either it's non-personal or disguised as a personal choice, but really has some externalities, you might try, "a moral choice presupposes deliberation, so what steps did you take with regard to that?"
There's a reason why they say of scrubbed space rocket events, "mission aborted". It's because abortions are really complicated, and you wouldn't understand the science in either department where it's used. You have to assume you can look at abortions in a really precise way, and only then the murder stuff isn't as bad as on first glance...or maybe not. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 00:13, 31 March 2020 (EDT)

Separation of church and state

This phrase that was invented by Thomas Jefferson writing to a Baptist, where he said the U.S. government can't interfere with your church's operation, because there's a wall of separation between church and state. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 00:23, 31 March 2020 (EDT)

And I quote from your assertation, can't interfere with your church's operation. --LiberaltearsYour reminder that Biden committed quid pro joe 00:35, 31 March 2020 (EDT)
Too bad Jefferson outright cheerleaded the Jacobins and similar groups during the French Revolution when they definitely were interfering with the church's operation, not to mention the church's very existence, even when they were de-facto in power after pretty much destroying the state. Pokeria1 (talk) 08:12, 31 March 2020 (EDT)

Moral absolutes

When people use this term, they seem to mean morals that apply to everyone at all times and places. This springs from the fact that human beings share a species-specific human nature. This human nature takes the form of potentialities; potentialities for things such as speech, guardianship of property and reason. Perhaps tellingly, within the discussion in Conservative's atheist articles, he happened to observe that writers like Jean-Paul Sartre who denied human nature would often act particularly lawless themselves. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 23:09, 31 March 2020 (EDT)

Think you can provide links to these discussion pages, and the articles you're referring to (specifically the ones mentioning Sartre and other writers)? Am curious about what's said there (and I definitely agree there) Pokeria1 (talk) 23:20, 31 March 2020 (EDT)
I meant the discussions that are ON the article pages. But you can look at all of them by following my link to Jean-Paul Sartre and clicking "What links here". VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 01:40, 1 April 2020 (EDT)

Our latest Americans with bodies born abroad

Trump to Americans: You must stay indoors for fifteen days!

Trump to 85,000 H1B workers: Where have you been all my life? Let me help you move in!

VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 23:30, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

Diversity is more than just integrating possibly overlooked groups, it's about maneuvering cultures to turn them against each other. It's an easier job by virtue of the fact that so many of these members of foreign cultures either don't know or don't care about American traditions of self-government or don't even speak English well enough to participate in the kind of associations which seek to support employee interests, but rather, they only trust their own clans. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 23:47, 30 March 2020 (EDT)

MCSC Network W/ Niko House

MCSC Network W/ Niko House is a progressive Youtube channel that's better than TYT for keeping up with the latest developments among Progressives. More issue oriented. Jimmy Dore rates somewhere down the list. MCSC reports New Poll Shows Many Bernie Sanders Supporters Plan On Voting For Trump Over Biden In 2020 Election. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:30, 31 March 2020 (EDT)

Health and welfare

I was discussing with Conservative the fact that although the threat of the coronavirus in Europe scared so many people there into healthier behaviors that the illness caused a net zero effect on overall mortality, we decided it wasn't a wash, because now there still remains a traumatized population of fat loads suffering with PTSD. #WeCare VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 19:34, 1 April 2020 (EDT)

April Fools—I never spoke to Conservative about it. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 23:20, 1 April 2020 (EDT)
BTW, I'm not just an armchair observer of other people's pain. I'm glad they're alive. I had PTSD from the industrial front in 1991. There're still things I can't remember. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 08:11, 2 April 2020 (EDT)

Censorship and you

What is the primary object of censorship? It's a very specific object, and if you're not sure, you definitely don't know what it is. But it has so many possible manifestations, it's impossible for you to have missed it completely. Censorship (using that word) started in Roman times, though. If you don't know what its object is, how can you seek a judicious application of it within the political institutions of which you profess to be a part? Were you used to having a better idea? Do you suppose political agents chose to jawbone about it to shift its focus away from adversely affecting their interests? VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 01:44, 2 April 2020 (EDT)

Answer: Luxuries. And immoral acts were not seen to build up the state, so they were proscribed just as much as unaffordable luxuries as well. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 05:08, 2 April 2020 (EDT)
Yes. Censorship is the vanity of ruling elites. It exposes that true equality does not exist, and without a system of checks and balances (China, for example), a corrupt cabal does't like criticism.
I am going to take the thesis a step further: in America and The West today we have a corrupt cabal of ruling elites and God-haters who worship science. Their power penetrates courts, legislatures, the administrative state, universities, and public school systems. They are intolerant of criticism of their basic values and belief systems. They use a panoply of forms of censorship to protect their power.
Wikipedia is a good living example. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 13:22, 2 April 2020 (EDT)
What about the parable of the Prodigal Son? We shouldn't be wasteful of God's resources, should we? VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 23:24, 2 April 2020 (EDT)
We are all the prodigal son. God didn't censor or stand in the prodigal son's way when the son said he wanted to leave (God moreless said 'don't let the door hit you where the sun don't shine on the way out'). Only most people are too proud to 'come to themselves' while slaving at the slop trough. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:46, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
God ultimately wants only HIS will to dominate over everyone, that we act as slaves to Him alone, unfortunately. So yes, God does ultimately want censorship. In fact, ultimately, the ten commandments and the books of Leviticus, Deuteronomy, and numbers qualify as censorship. And I certainly don't recall his son claiming there are multiple truths that are equally as valid as each other, which is what lack of censorship ultimately entails. When you have law and rule regulations, you by definition have censorship.
Besides, Voltaire and his ilk promoted the idea of no censorship whatsoever of their works, as did Walter Cronkite (where the state if anything lets them speak out of fear of coming across as intolerant, with Malesherbs even sabotaging a raid on the Encyclopedists, like how Lyndon Johnson let him yap his lies on the Tet Offensive, not even DARE try to correct the record, out of FEAR of coming across as interfering with freedom of the press. Oh, and Malesherbs ended up getting guillotined by Voltaire's descendants as his "reward". And most of America believing we lost Tet simply because Walter Cronkite lied to us, when in reality we won.).
And what the Communists are doing, not to mention the Western left? That's an extension of what Voltaire pushed. Want true lack of censorship? Look at Charlie Hebdo, and ESPECIALLY how they ultimately ended up.
Do I like censorship? Not really, but I also realize it's ultimately a necessary evil. Heck, technically, we censor by silencing liberal opinions (and make no mistake, I'm very GLAD to silence liberal views to make sure Conservapedia remains a Conservative site, seeing liberalism for what it is, an amoral, outright false ideology that's an excuse to be anarchistic and live insanely.). Pokeria1 (talk) 16:34, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
Pokeria, let me ask you something: if the right to free speech is limited and not a moral absolute, are you entirely sure censorship, and not a bastardization of it, is an evil? VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 03:09, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

The origin of the Wuhan virus and the realities of globalist censorship

Another day, another scandal, this one uncovered by Tucker Carlson on Wednesday, April 1:

On February 6, scientists from the South China University of Technology uploaded a paper on the origins of Coronavirus. Where did it come from? Well this offers some clue. At the time, the official death toll in China from the coronavirus was 564. The paper made a number of notable observations and claims that are worth knowing about, and that's why we're telling you. We want to be clear that we are not endorsing any of these conclusions. We haven’t independently confirmed them. We can't. But you should keep in mind as you hear this, that these findings come from Chinese scientists, who work for a university that is controlled by the Chinese government. So whatever else they are, the views you are about to hear are probably not racist anti-Chinese propaganda. Here’s what the paper says:
First, the scientists confirmed what scientists around the world have said they believe: the virus mostly likely came from an animal known as the Intermediate Horseshoe Bat. Here's the striking thing. There are no known colonies of this bat within 900 kilometers of Wuhan. Nor is there any evidence that they were sold in the Wuhan wet market, despite many claims in American media to the contrary. Including on this show, by the way; last night we did a segment on wet markets, the one in Wuhan included, and suggested that this bat was sold there. But let's be clear. The only actual analysis of that question, that we're aware of, is in this paper. These scientists interviewed almost 60 people, 59 of them, who frequented the Wuhan wet market. They confirmed there were no horseshoe bats for sale there, period.
So that raises the question, where did the virus-carrying bats come from? And the paper says this, quote: “We screened the area around the market and identified two laboratories conducting research on bat coronavirus.” Within a few hundred yards of the wet market was something called the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention. According to public reports, the center used Intermediate Horseshoe Bats for research. Then, about seven miles away was another facility, this one was called the Wuhan Institute of Virology. The virology institute also conducted research on Intermediate Horseshoe Bats, the ones that were not sold at the wet market.
South China University scientists concluded that the Coronavirus pandemic, the one that people are dying from here, likely came from one of these two government labs in Wuhan. They noticed that a scientist at the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention had been exposed to the blood and urine of Horseshoe bats. They also suggested that infected tissue samples from research animals may have wound up in the Wuhan wet market. And they ended the paper this way. Quote: "The killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan. Safety levels may need to be reinforced in high risk, bio-hazardous laboratories. Regulations may be taken to relocate these laboratories far away from city centers and other densely populated places." End quote. How's that for interesting?
Now this paper has been online for nearly two months. And so far, it has been virtually ignored in this country. Almost nobody in American journalism has dared to write about it. The few who have, were immediately attacked as dangerous conspiracy theorists. Instead of assessing what seemed like the rational conclusions presented in the Chinese paper, there was a spate of American news stories and academic research designed to show that the Coronavirus absolutely could not have been engineered in a Chinese lab. They sounded supremely confident of that. But do they really know it? And the answer is, no, they don’t. As a factual matter, it is impossible for Western scientists to settle the question either way. So instead of doing that, or admitting that, they amped up the rhetoric, hoping that...you wouldn’t notice the difference. A post on the National Institutes of Health website, written by NIH director Francis Collins himself, dismisses any such speculation as, quote, “outrageous.” Keep in mind, NIH is supposed to be keeping you safe from diseases like this one, not running political interference for hostile foreign governments. This is how they’re spending their time, as Americans die in the middle of a global pandemic.
And still, no one addressed the substance of the claims. The South China University paper concludes that the virus probably escaped accidentally from a lab in Wuhan. It said not one word about "bioweapons". Yet the NIH and USA Today, and countless other outlets, have devoted thousands of words to scolding you for thinking the virus may have been a form of biological warfare. Notice that’s a totally different claim than the one made in the paper. And that’s not accidental. One of the surest signs that people are lying to you, is when they answer questions you didn’t ask. And that’s exactly what the professional class is doing with this story, and they’re doing it on many fronts: they’re lying to you. They’re claiming to know things they don’t know; they’re dismissing the obvious as impossible; they’re blaming you for their failures. And the media are helping them do it. The stakes are too high to let them continue this way. So no matter what, stay skeptical as you assess the world. Remain rational. Gather your own evidence and come to your own conclusions. You shouldn't have to do that—you ought to be able to trust the people in charge. But you can't. So at this point, you have no choice.

VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 02:20, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

If they have determine that a virus lab is the source, that would explain why they are reopening the wet markets: "Shockingly, China’s Wet Markets are Reopening; Will We Ever Learn?" PeterKa (talk) 06:35, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
The link doesn't work, but the CCP-fawning histrionics in the title are all-too-plausible—and familiar. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 09:13, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
I.e. guilt is hidden by shame, and shame that even includes us! VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 09:21, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
We're going to need a Xiangguo Qiu article. [73] As the CBC says, "Microbiology can ... involve national security". [74] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:32, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

There is no way the virus got out of that lab by accident. Someone let it out on purpose. But the question is, who? Meanwhile, Trump should start investigating the DOS, DOD, and CIA, for possible involvement. Such a scenario cannot be ruled out.--Geopolitician (talk) 17:49, 4 April 2020 (EDT)

What makes you think the Chinese didn't deliberately do that to themselves, without any CIA, DOS, or DOD involvement? As the old saying goes "never let a crisis go to waste", and since Chinese Communism, like ALL forms of Marxism, derives from the French Revolution, which among other things had the French Jacobins outright slaying even their own forces and pointlessly destroying key supplies just to satiate bloodlust (read up on General Louis Grignon), it's also likely they created an epidemic simply for giggles. There's also the likelihood that they deliberately instigated the epidemic because they realized they're losing the trade war and want to destroy the West just to spite them (in fact, I've seen that exact theory being posited by a user on One Angry Gamer, and heck, the theory's actually posted on Gateway Pundit, as another user linked to on here.). Besides, you want a true example of the deep state? Look at the United Nations, the very EPITOME of the Deep State. Pokeria1 (talk) 16:38, 5 April 2020 (EDT)

Q-anon not conservative much less far-right

March 28, 2020 [excerpt]

When you are awake, you stand on the outside of the stable (‘group-think’ collective), and have ‘free thought’.
"Free thought" is a philosophical viewpoint which holds that positions regarding truth should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, revelation, or dogma.
When you are awake, you are able to clearly see.
The choice is yours, and yours alone.
Trust and put faith in yourself.

Somehow I think Holy Scripture is of greater "authority" than Q-anon or even "ourselves", or at least until we understand the mysteries of faith enough to discuss them in a way that shows they've educated our conscience. We're certainly not born knowing them. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 03:52, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

That adds to the theory that Q-anon is a committee, probably some retired military intelligence bureaucrat wrote that. Looks like an effort to appeal to the disillusioned 15% of the woke crowd in the Sanders camp who intend to vote for Trump. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:22, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
As to the so-called mystery of faith: Faith is not an intellectual exercise that can be reasoned. Faith is simple trust - trust in God. You either have it or don't. People who have trust or faith in God by degrees - they trust God in some areas by can't intellectually reason trust in others - to them faith remains a mystery. So much so their faith is as much of a mystery as atheists and agnostics.
1 Samuel 3:4-9 may illustrate clearly an attitude of faith that God is looking for. [75] Samuel so trusted God he was waiting for God to speak to him in his sleep. And when God called, he responded. This faith cannot be intellectualized or reasoned, it's just part of your inner being. In reading these verses it sounds crazy or insane to the natural mind. [76] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:01, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

Revelation

It is a great and very rare thing for a man, after he has contemplated the whole creation, corporeal and incorporeal, and has discerned its mutability, to pass beyond it, and, by the continued soaring of his mind, to attain to the unchangeable substance of God, and, in that height of contemplation, to learn from God Himself that none but He has made all that is not of the divine essence. For God speaks with a man not by means of some audible creature dinning in his ears, so that atmospheric vibrations connect Him that makes with him that hears the sound, nor even by means of a spiritual being with the semblance of a body, such as we see in dreams or similar states; for even in this case He speaks as if to the ears of the body, because it is by means of the semblance of a body He speaks, and with the appearance of a real interval of space,—for visions are exact representations of bodily objects. Not by these, then, does God speak, but by the truth itself, if any one is prepared to hear with the mind rather than with the body. For He speaks to that part of man which is better than all else that is in him, and than which God Himself alone is better. For since man is most properly understood (or, if that cannot be, then, at least, believed) to be made in God’s image, no doubt it is that part of him by which he rises above those lower parts he has in common with the beasts, which brings him nearer to the Supreme. But since the mind itself, though naturally capable of reason and intelligence is disabled by besotting and inveterate vices not merely from delighting and abiding in, but even from tolerating His unchangeable light, until it has been gradually healed, and renewed, and made capable of such felicity, it had, in the first place, to be impregnated with faith, and so purified. And that in this faith it might advance the more confidently towards the truth, the truth itself, God, God’s Son, assuming humanity without destroying His divinity, established and founded this faith, that there might be a way for man to man’s God through a God-man. For this is the Mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. For it is as man that He is the Mediator and the Way. Since, if the way lieth between him who goes, and the place whither he goes, there is hope of his reaching it; but if there be no way, or if he know not where it is, what boots it to know whither he should go? Now the only way that is infallibly secured against all mistakes, is when the very same person is at once God and man, God our end, man our way. —St. Augustine (413-426 AD), The City of God, Book XI, Chap. 2. trans. Marcus Dods

VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 05:49, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

Hydroxychloroquine issue won't go away

"Dr." Cuomo took steps to withhold the drug from the public again, this time as a preventative in the early stages. Ann Coulter wondered aloud what would happen if a conservative governor suddenly withheld an abortionfacient drug because he decided it wasn't in the public interest for his state as well.

Well, instead of running new "large-scale clinical trials", someone got the idea to poll actual coronavirus doctors to see how various treatments had fared in practice as they came bubbling up.

A company called Sermo polled 6,227 physicians in 30 countries, which found a plurality of 37% of doctors chose hydroxychloroquine as the "most effective therapy" among a list of 15 options.[1]

A published author and Twitter contributor with 33,000 followers had this to add:

I think data on hcq was out for a long time and it could even be prophylactic [preventative]...but always remember USA health-govt-media-expert complex withheld this treatment because it's cheap and many in media have relations with Gilead [Science] maker of (expensive, ineffective, dangerous) rival drug

Well Dr. Los Angeles Times wasn't shy about thrusting forward a business columnist to comment shortly before the poll to heap up obstacles between doctor and patient:

"There are scientific grounds for examining chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine as possible treatments for COVID-19; dozens of clinical trials have been announced.

That's big of them to provide our front-line doctors with these helpful "announcements" to deliver to their patients.

"Infectious disease EXPERTS consider the drugs to be promising, but there’s a lot more they’d like to know before certifying them for clinical use."

...Except for the thousands of clinical doctors who are actually TREATING patients in all stages of the Wuhan virus.

You might be surprised to learn Dr. Zelenko is not alone in New York in having discovered his early-intervention hydroxychloroquine treatment. Conservative discussed the three drugs he used, and the relative benefits Dr. Zelenko provided in his treatment dosages.

We can only hope that a French counterpart, Dr. Didier Raoult, used similar care in his own regimen using hydroxychloroquine.

This is where Gilead Science comes in. The company is the French "Governor Cuomo" or Los Angeles Times et. al. to Dr. Raoult.

Anecdotes have already appeared on Twitter paralleling Cuomo's and the left-wing media's interference with Dr. Zelenko:

Suddenly, three public critics of Raoult on the TV sets
-Karine Lacombes
-Xavier Lescure
-Gilbert Deray
-ALL THREE in obvious interest with Gilead Science, the lab that sold its Hepatitis C medication for $40,000 per treatment.

The most intriguing are two posts by a Twitter amateur with only 173 followers:

Buzyn and her husband Levy also have an existing grudge against Dr Raoult. They tried to take away his medical research's center special status back in 2017, and had to back off once the Elysée [college] got involved. Even Le Monde is forced to admit this part: [Le Monde story follows]
They also confirm that Levy was present at the inauguration of the level 4 Wuhan lab before repeating the usual platitudes about how the virus cannot be from there because it's most likely of animal origin

The Le Monde article is written in French, and I can't tell what role this Agnès Buzyn-Lévy, a former health minister, and her husband Yves, played, if any, with the company. But it seems to say that, yes, they did something to thwart the use of Dr. Raoult's version of the hydroxychloroquine treatment. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 14:17, 3 April 2020 (EDT)

Cuomo looks more like a CCP operative than a CCP stooge. He's hoping the 'fish tank' narrative will carry to election day. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:27, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
Hydroxychloroquine helps with the uptake of zinc into the cell which is very important in combating coronavirus. Dr. Vladimir Zelenko, who uses hydroxychloroquine as a part of his very successful coronavirus treatments (see: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment), also does zinc supplementation. Doctors/drug companies are very into drugs and are not into mineral/vitamin supplementation very much. Perhaps, without the zinc supplementation that Zelenko is using, the drug hydroxychloroquine will have a small fraction of the effectiveness that Zelenko is getting.
Unfortunately, people are often unteachable, inflexible and bullheaded. In addition, they are often greedy and the mineral/vitamin supplementation could be viewed as "competition". But maybe it is just ignorance. Medical doctors do not receive much education in nutrition as a part of medical school.
After all is said and done, I am disappointed that a perfectly good treatment method may go to waste because doctors and medical scientists are too ignorant/stubborn/greedy.Conservative (talk) 16:50, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
It hasn't. FDA approval has expanded Dr. Zelenko's experimental treatment regimen across the United States. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:24, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
Are the patients using zinc sulfate along with using hydroxychloroquine or just using hydroxychloroquine? Are the clinical trials using zinc sulfate along with using hydroxychloroquine or just using hydroxychloroquine? That was the whole point of my above post.Conservative (talk) 17:54, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
Using Dr. Zelenko's basic research on 699 patients, they are conducting realtime experimental clinical research approved by the FDA. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:58, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
See, for anything to get FDA approval for mass marketing, testing must be done on human 'guinea pigs'. This testing is usually conducted by Big Pharma and/or academic researchers after the 'guinea pigs' sign waivers from lawsuits, etc. In cancer research, for example, terminal patients are often recruited for experimental testing. As Trump said, "What the hell do we have to lose?" In the case of Dr. Zelenko's research, other doctors now have the approval or authority to expand the control group provided they obtain the waivers and turn over testing results to FDA. It's ongoing, being tweeked in real time by the CDC, FDA, academic researchers and Big Pharma as doctors across the country report their results. The only impediment is Democrat governors and communist subversives in science wanting to torpedo the results and hold to the 'fish tank' narrative for the November election. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:10, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
IOWs, patients proscribed hydroxychloriquine under the regimen pioneered by Dr. Zelenko, must be informed they are participating in experimental research and sign documents under informed consent laws. They must be informed this is experimental research and not a regular treatment regimen. Under this agreement between doctor and patient, the patient has a duty to report back to the doctor so the doctor can provide results to the government, academia, and industry. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:22, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
Addendum: As the control group is expanded and this experimental regimen becomes a treatment option, I would suspect at some point a requirement is added for certain individuals (young, otherwise healthy) to become plasma donors for antibodies to be used in treatment of other stricken individuals and development of vaccine. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:01, 3 April 2020 (EDT)
Smoking gun?: First user: Gilead Science is in phase 3 clinical trials. Second user: They want FDA to mandate "Remdesivir".

  1. Richardson, Valerie (April 2, 2020). The Washington Times.

The CCP and Machiavelli

Basically the CCP is attempting to interfere in the 2020 presidential election. But the CCP either didn't read or misinterpreted Machiavelli's Il Principe, particularly chapters 4 and 5. In these two chapters,

CHAPTER IV.- WHY THE KINGDOM OF DARIUS, CONQUERED BY ALEXANDER, DID NOT REBEL AGAINST THE SUCCESSORS OF ALEXANDER AT HIS DEATH

CHAPTER V.- CONCERNING THE WAY TO GOVERN CITIES OR PRINCIPALITIES WHICH LIVED UNDER THEIR OWN LAWS BEFORE THEY WERE ANNEXED

Machiavelli spells out a very simple concept. In chapter 4 he says a slave won't rebel when you trade one slave master for another; in chapter 5 he says a free people must be totally destroyed because the memory of their ancient freedom will never die.

Go ahead, make my day. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 07:48, 4 April 2020 (EDT)

Darius ruled Judea, but they sort of lived under their own laws through the temple; they weren't slaves. And Judea did rebel against the successors of Alexander, later. Machiavelli is wrong. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 18:01, 4 April 2020 (EDT)
I misunderstood. Alexander had four successors immediately after he died, but they weren't a series of successors. But the first book of Maccabees doesn't say anything about conflict between them and Judea. Did Judea need to rebel at that point? VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 18:48, 4 April 2020 (EDT)
Machiavelli wrote a much longer but less famous work called Discourses on Livy. This is a justification for the Roman Republic. He was a senior official in the Florentine Republic. In The Prince, Machiavelli poses as the friend of tyrants, not so much to advocate tyranny, but to explain why tyrants do what they do. There is a modern book in the same spirit: Coup d'État: A Practical Handbook by Edward Luttwak. PeterKa (talk) 06:38, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
Vargas: You make the point of Chapter 5, "a free people will never forget their ancient freedom". RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:39, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

Trump crashes in the polls

Trump's net approval has been crashing in the last few days. It was -6 in Reuters/Ipsos and -9 in Rasmussen.[77] Americans obviously liked his "open up" the country by Easter position. Opinion has turned against him now that he has backed down. Without the rallies, he's lost his grip on where the American people are. PeterKa (talk) 21:42, 4 April 2020 (EDT)

Reopening by Easter was perhaps unrealistic. What we need is a plan to beef up production of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine. Both of these drugs are now FDA-approved treatments for Covid-19.[78] We also need to crank up the production of N95 masks, a preventive measure approved by the CDC. Some executive orders under the Defense Production Act of 1950 may be useful. With a timeline to reopen, people can plan their lives. Warm weather may kill off the Wuhan virus before we reach the production quotas. But we also need to be ready when it comes back in the fall. PeterKa (talk) 22:02, 4 April 2020 (EDT)
I got my chloroquine and my zinc supplement now. I paid $26 for 200 pills. According to this, I should have paid $1,000. I hope I don't end up like the fish tank guy in Arizona. In any case, I'm all ready for this: "Trump Warns 'One Of The Toughest Weeks' Is Ahead, Says To Brace For 'A Lot Of Death'." PeterKa (talk) 08:34, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
I have to report that this medicine has some serious side effects. I walked a few miles to the supermarket yesterday. By the time I got back I felt like I was going to faint. I've lost appetite and I'm not hungry. But I retain water and my weight has shot up by 4 kg. Here is an official list of side effects. The one I found most amusing is "feeling that others can hear your thoughts." That didn't happen to me. I suppose none of the side effects are as bad as getting Covid-19. PeterKa (talk) 21:21, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
This is, of course, very interesting but raises some questions. How did you get that medicine? Doesn't it have to be prescribed? And I thought it was for use in the early stages of infection with the virus, not before you get it! VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 07:00, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
What kind of consent forms and waivers did you have to sign to get the treatment? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 07:04, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
Okay, WHY are we relying on Rasmussen and Reuters again? Last I checked, they previously predicted that Hillary Clinton would be president back in 2016, so I fail to see how they're reliable in gauging public opinion on Trump. Pokeria1 (talk) 10:53, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
  • I'm in Vietnam and I just went to the pharmacy and bought a bottle of medicine. Around a large hospital, they have many pharmacies. I go to one after another. Finally, someone pulls out a bottle from behind the counter. It's locally produced medicine intended to treat malaria. That the name of the medicine is misspelled of the label does not inspire confidence. Vietnam has zero Covid-19 deaths so far, so it might not be necessary. Everyone wears a mask these days and the virus doesn't like hot weather. PeterKa (talk) 18:20, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

Antibody treatment (kind of temporary vaccine) developed by Jacob Glanville

This news story was back on Monday, March 30, 2020. His company, Distributed Bio, reused antibodies from 2002 SARS virus and retrofitted them to the Wuhan virus. It's being called a breakthrough.

His method was mutating "hundreds of millions" of them and finding the ones that found receptors on the Wuhan virus.

"It binds the spot that the virus uses to gain entry into your cells," said Glanville[1]

I feel I can't escape mentioning it reminds me of that strange lab doctor (searching for the bacterium that metabolized citric acid) that wrote Andy, and how a similar situation was brought up in the news recently, but I would have to look again to remember just what that was.

VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 07:09, 5 April 2020 (EDT)

VargasMilan, I think you are getting ahead of your skies. There is no cure to COVID-19 unless the FDA says it is a cure! Then it becomes a ProvenCureTM. That is the right type of thinking of a big government, secular leftist!
I hope I clarified things for you.Conservative (talk) 07:23, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
Thank you for the correction. I guess I should have checked with them first and need to go to work more on my bureaucracy approval-seeking habits. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 07:29, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
I am hoping the Charlie Daniel's Band writes a song called The Covid-19 Virus Went Down to Georgia.Conservative (talk) 07:32, 5 April 2020 (EDT)

  1. "'Pandemic' scientist makes breakthrough on Covid-19 cure" (March 30, 2020). CheckPoint radio program. (NZ: Radio New Zealand).

Raining hard

float

There's a lot on Twitter calling out government authorities for not responding to the Wuhan virus with enough engagement. What comes to mind are reports of federal organizations that spent energy on fashionable health issues too late up to the point of when the virus was threatening. There's also reports of states receiving homeland security funds without applying them to plans of action and procurement, but just spent the funds. There's also the case of New York City, which didn't shut down high-transmission environments until about two weeks ago.

Wuhan virus deaths are now at 1,000 per day in the U.S. since April 1. Someone said last flu season was 6,000 fatalities, but now it's up to 8,800 Wuhan virus deaths. This rate could potentially continue the next ten days and beyond. We're not used to this happening in spring, so we're not as careful about spreading it, and the news is jarring.

I'd like to say: "The high fatality rate is due to underlying health issues that will disappear soon." But the transmission rate is unknown and the new infection rate has stalled before growing the way it is stalled right now. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 09:08, 5 April 2020 (EDT)

Update: Alex Berenson: "@CDCgov is estimating 24,000-63,000 flu deaths this year." I apologize for the misinformation. I didn't realize my memory was that bad. I could have sworn the woman I read said 6,000 or at least under 10,000. Flu season/Flu year? I don't know. Take from the conflicting figures what you think is most correct. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 11:49, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
Yes. Regular flu avg = 36K; 24K lowball, 60K high end. Analysis: if 36K die of regular flu per anum, = 1,000 deaths avg per day; however most die during "flu season", which is approximately 4 months, meaning U.S. endures 3,000 deaths per day in flu season of people with underlying conditions who do not respond to treatment without panic in the streets. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:57, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Update: Alex Berenson again: "model vs reality for New York State, April 5. The model is less accurate than ever...12,346 ICU beds projected, 4376 needed." Alex Berenson needs to lay off. The transmission rate was unknown and even 35% full capacity this early in the week is still a pretty big deal. If there were a civil disturbance, it could be even more serious. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 19:38, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
Update: 70% of fatalities on Saturday are in five liberal states: NY, NJ, CA, IL, MA. A lockdown makes sense in New York City, but elsewhere? I think we should quarantine the elderly and those who live with them and return to working and bringing back small businesses. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 03:14, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Update: Great news: Sunday is Biggest drop ever in the United States in daily new Wuhan virus confirmed cases. Only 25,000 new confirmed cases. Fatalies drop below 1,000 to 804 on Sunday. Thousands recover! VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 03:43, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Meaningless. The United States has been testing 25,000+ per day for weeks cause we have enough kits and people trained to read results. A few days last week we broke 30,000+ as high as 33,000. It's not surprising on Sunday, the day of rest, a few testers took the day off.
But let's apply science to the importance and significance of testing; 330,000,000 people divided by 25,000 per day = 13,200 days divided by 365 days per year = 35+ years (Sundays included, not counting leap years). It is a meaningless stat to use the rate at which people are being tested to determine the rate at which people are becoming infected, and should not be presented to the public as if it has any connection to the rate at which the disease is being spread. Important, factual information is what people need right now. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 04:21, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
You can almost be sure that if you have the Wuhan virus, a doctor is going find out about it. There aren't vast armies of patients that don't make it to the doctor. Hope to see you, Rob, at 5:30a EST when Conservapedia turns back on. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 04:59, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
The U.S. is in the same position the CCP was in two months ago; follow what is happening in China now for what will happen here over the next two months.
After two months the lockdown caused such extensive damage, people had to go back to work. Food wasn't being produced. People had no income to pay the exorbitant prices created by limited supplies. The government collected no taxes cause there was no economic activity. People and the government were forced into a choice: what's riskier? starving to death or the coronavirus? So the government painted a picture of the worst being over and sounded the all clear. They had to.
Now comes Round 2 in China. With the spread of the virus south of the equator, there's scant evidence warmer temperatures will have much effect. Education of the populace about mitigation efforts is the key.
User Progressingamerica just posted some nonsense blaming Richard Nixon being the cause of the crisis. Unfortunately, out efforts to educate Progresingamerica about mitigation failed. "Flattening the curve" is to flatten the curve for demand for hospital beds. "Stay home if you're sick" is about flattening the curve for the demand for hospital and medical services in the midst of a pandemic. There are only 1 million hospital beds in America, 2/3 of which are filled at any time with other sick patients. That means there is little more than 300,000 hospital beds in a nation of 330,000,000 people, 40% of which will become infected in the next two years. The fatality rate is unknown because of all the progressive leftist junk science put out by the CCP since January, which a few people now are waking up to.
Your hope to survive is based on two assumptions: (1) that you will get infected sooner or later; and (2) that when you do become infected, hopefully it will be with a small dose so that you can remain at home and build antibodies and immunity. Operate on the assumption the herd immunity theory is true, and you are doing your part, not becoming a carrier, proper hygiene, diet, and mitigation efforts.
Education is key: asymptomatic carriers are like Sanders supporters, young, healthy, stupid, and they don't care what damage their beliefs in themselves and their ideas do to the rest of society. They, in their self-pride, remain the most dangerous. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 03:59, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
I think you're wrong. I think the outbreaks in the United States were caused by Chinese somehow dodging the travel ban as has been reported, and that the virus is not very contageous. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 04:11, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
360,000 Chinese students study in the U.S. How many went home for semester break before the January 24 holiday arrived back before the January 30 travel ban?
The point of my above essay is: in two months time the U.S. economy will be in such a shambles we'll have to reopen the country, just as China did, despite the risks. And hopefully enough people will be educated about the true danger of the virus, what and who caused it, and mitigation efforts. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 04:21, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
We're not filling the hospital beds. Florida is keeping tabs, not a liberal state, and their hospitals are emptying out, in the midst of a supposed nation-wide swell. Trump allows Fauci to set worst-case scenarios that Trump could never fail to outdo. What do you think Trump will say on Monday about re-opening businesses when he learns we're down to 800 fatalities a day? VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 04:53, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Florida is flattening the curve for the demand for medical treatment, and isolating pockets of infection (which happens to occur in heavily Democrat voting districts). Flattening the curve stretches out the period of time people are at risk of infection. Mitigation efforts are education efforts about the virus and the disease, which obviously is being resisted or failing in heavily Democrat districts. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:46, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Recall: goldfish have a greater attention span than Americans, [79] according to science. Due to years of fake news reporting, most Americans have already dismissed or forgotten what "flattening the curve" means. Media is just as culpable as the CCP for widespread deaths from this pandemic. Fake news media and Democrats are, once again, colluding with a foreign power to meddle in the 2020 presidential election and to defeat Donald Trump. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:20, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Yeah, you have some idea about what it's about, but I really get into it in my new book Goldfish Mindset: Media consumption habits that sidetrack you from your own best interests. It talks about newsreading choices that can sabotage you when you're trying to find out the truths that are important to you. 00:30, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
That's right. Confirmation bias is pandemic. The Trump-Russia collusion hoax and fake news media only fed it. RobSDe Plorabus Unum

Worldwide new Wuhan virus infections taper off

float

Rob S. is very knowledgable, but Conservative is too! And he says (if this inflection point doesn't revert) the graph will take on a bell-shaped curve that will mark the defeat of the Wuhan virus. The stopping of commerce was bad, but we kind of had a nationwide training and gathering of insight that maybe we can apply to future dangerous flus and save lives, at least if we apply the financially non-disruptive measures.

In America, we had a rise of new daily fatalities yesterday (1,320), but that is still down from earlier in the month (1,444). VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 06:37, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

New York hospitals emptying out according to Bill Mitchell of Twitter. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 10:02, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

Atlanta Federal Reserve reports Blue Chip experts predict 3.5% annualized decline in GDP in 2nd quarter of 2020. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 10:07, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

MPR mentions that only nine states don't have stay-at-home orders. I would just like to mention that some states have so many exceptions to the orders, that they look like swiss cheese. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 11:12, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

As of 8pm EST yesterday, stocks have regained 45% since the Wuhan virus panic. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 05:32, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

U.S.S. Theodore Roosevelt crew all infected, but none hospitalized. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 05:37, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Another treatment

Researchers in Australia have discovered yet another treatment for the Wuhan virus (if the FDA bureaucrats say so). Incredibly, it's another household product like chloroquine, so I'm not even going to say what it is in case someone picks it up, eats it and gets sent to the hospital. But you might want to check Breitbart. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 10:10, 5 April 2020 (EDT)

You can comfortably link to the article, which I could not easily find. The publicity about that other incident has been exposed as a promotion by a Trump opponent.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 12:19, 5 April 2020 (EDT)
Gladly. Price, Bob (April 4, 2020). "Common anti-parasite drug may kill coronavirus in under 48 hours, say researchers". Breitbart website. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 12:26, 5 April 2020 (EDT)

In case you missed it

I agree with Main Page Right about not locking down the states, at least not any more, with one exception, New York City. Instead, quarantine the elderly and those who live with them.

Secondly, I think there is a battle brewing betweeen Trump wanting to start up the economy and Democratic governors who want to hold their states' economies hostage to force Trump to run for President with the burden of a bad economy. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 06:36, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

I also read in an obscure place that the 2 Trillion stimulus bill was a poison pill, and that there is a provision that allows Trump and Treasury Secretary Mnuchin control of the Fed until they relinquish it, and that Trump felt that that trade-off was well worth the pork. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 06:42, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

Finally, I want to apologize to Rob for using the inaccurate confirmed cases metric in deciding about the status of transmission. The truth is, it's a proxy or substitute for fatalities. I don't want to make a fatality graph, or talk about fatalities exclusive to other data. It gets to be too depressing. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 08:11, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

Trump is aware the Democrats are going to try and stall. Someone suggested that Trump lift the lock-downs on a national basis. He tweeted loudly, "LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL!" and scheduled another announcement for tonight, I am sure, to set things in motion. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 09:14, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

Masks work, virus testing doesn't

In Korea the Japan, the Wuhan virus has been tamed by the Asian willingness to wear masks. The rate of testing for the virus is a meaningless metric that doesn't correlate to anything. See here. The logical conclusion is that we should have everyone wear masks. That would be more effective than the lockdown/quarantine nonsense that is destroying the economy. Wearing a mask might not protect you, but it protects other people. Many people are carriers with no symptoms and we can't test everyone. PeterKa (talk) 09:22, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

Western countries are too individualistic to want to wear masks very widely.
And there is a lot of vanity in the West. The leading fashion capital of the world is not in Asia. It is in Paris, France.
And leadership is by example.
The are pictures of Asian leaders wearing masks - Xi Jinping (China), Moon Jae-in (South Korea), Shinzo Abe (Japan's Prime Minister). [80][81][82]
Sergio Mattarella is the president of Italy which has a big coronavirus problem and he is an elderly man. There are no pictures of him wearing a mask.
Donald Trump is a former television star. He is not into masks.
There are exceptions in the West (or at least one). French President Emmanuel Macron wears a face mask during his visit to the military field hospital outside the Emile Muller Hospital in Mulhouse, eastern France, March 25, 2020.[83]
Russia has been influenced by the West as Christianity is present in Russia. And Christianity is a vital pillar of Western civilization. Vladimir Putin likes to project strength. Putin thinks masks are for sissies. On the other hand, Putin thinks hazmat suits are macho.[84]Conservative (talk) 10:01, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
There are exceptions in Asia. King of Thailand 'isolates' in luxury hotel with entourage of 20 women.[85]Conservative (talk) 10:23, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

add

Italy's cases drop. [86]

Italy sees drop in cases

Italy's cases drop. [87] --AHills6 12:43, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

It is not a "case drop"; it is a reporting drop. It could be caused be exhaustion or the death of too many frontline workers. Stop spreading communist misinformation.

Certificate of Need

Move discussion to Talk:Certificate of Need. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:42, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

@ASchlafly Andy, Many if not most of the states are circumventing Certificate of Need laws in direct response to Coronavirus. Do you agree that the page should be deleted? I just pointed to the governors of Nebraska, Vermont, North Carolina, Tennessee, Alabama, Iowa, and several others. This is not fake news. It really doesn't make sense why Rob is upset about this. It's provable. The Pacific Legal Foundation points out how over a dozen states have done this.[88] Progressingamerica (talk) 20:23, 6 April 2020 (EDT)

I fixed the partisan snobbery myself. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:33, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
"Presidential name era" is how its often times done. "Reagan era" for example. "JFK era". "Jefferson era". It's not snarky. This is common. Progressingamerica (talk) 21:07, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Yah well it's a recent phenomenon. And I did my share of it to isolate the historical fluke of the resurrection of progressivism between 2008 and 2016 after it was thoroughly discredited in 1979 at the Jonestown massacre. So don't get carried away with it. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:10, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Are you suggesting we put the Holocaust in the New Deal or FDR era? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:17, 6 April 2020 (EDT)
Let's call the times we live in since 2008 the Second Progressive Era, and let's start counting the number of deaths, refugees, Black African slaves in Libya, and money added to the national debt caused by Progressive leaders.
Syrian War: 600,000 deaths; 11,000,000 homeless.
Muslim refugees in Europe: 3,000,000
Resurgence of the African slave trade: ?
Money added to the national debt since the 2008 government-backed mortgage crisis, Obamacare, and CCP pandemic: $11,000,000,000,000.
Deaths cause by the Progressive Chinese leaders: 50,000 and counting. And I haven't even started to get snarky yet. RobSDe Plorabus Unum

Wuhan virus as VD

Let's rehearse this scenario that none of you have picked up on.

  1. Lazy Chinese and airlines violate Trump's travel ban.
  2. Wuhan virus shows up in 50 states.
  3. Public picks up on it and, for example, cancel all American air travel, now thinking the Wuhan virus is very contageous.
  4. Wuhan virus grows and infects.
  5. Wuhan virus is shown to be most prevalent (by this point 70% in 5 liberal states) in big liberal cities. It wasn't me who said, early on, one of the best ways to catch the Wuhan virus is to have sex with an infected person.
  6. Liberals get us all engaged in the process so we never question that we're shutting down the economies in every state in order to hide the fact that it's primarily a venereal disease, and only secondarily a contageous virus four times less serious than a flu season everywhere except in those states with liberal municipalities!

It's like the AIDS epidemic: Everybody has to wear condoms and schoolchildren taught the same! Even if they don't, you don't want to stigmatize the gays, do you? So let's all go through the motions!

It's like airport security: Everybody could be a terrorist. Well, actually no, but you don't want to stigmatize the Muslims, do you?

VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 01:20, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

Ask your doctor for a Haldol script. [89] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:58, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
Rob, America is a first-world country, perhaps hygeine ought to prevent the spread a little. Yet?
Let's declare the facts before a candid world:
New York: New York City, 4,758 total deaths
New Jersey: Most municipally developed state in the union, 1,003 deaths
Michigan: Detroit, 727 deaths
Louisiana: The big easy?, 512 deaths
California: Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, 388 deaths
Washington: Seattle, Antifa central, 383 deaths
Illinois: Chicago, 308 deaths
Georgia: Atlanta, 294 deaths
Massachusetts: Boston, most liberal state, 260 deaths
Florida: Very large state, half liberal, does not count.
That adds up to 8,633 deaths, 79% of 10,960 fatalities.
VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 02:18, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
CDC U.S. All-Cause Mortality, by Flu Season 2013-2020.jpg
As America crossed the threshold of 10,000 of CCP deaths, the CDC's 2020 All-Cause Mortality rate for influenza deaths is 10,000 deaths below the 2013-2019 average. [90] According to the CDC, as reported on March 24, 2020,
While we knew physical activity is good for you, we didn’t know how many steps per day you need to take to lower your mortality risk or whether stepping at a higher intensity makes a difference....compared with taking 4,000 steps per day, a number considered to be low for adults, taking 8,000 steps per day was associated with a 51% lower risk for all-cause mortality (or death from all causes). Taking 12,000 steps per day was associated with a 65% lower risk compared with taking 4,000 steps. ... [91]
Interesting. Who knew Americans doubled and tripled their walking since last October when flu season began? or that over recent weeks while on lockdown they still could pace about their apartments 8,000 steps? The wonders of science. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 06:45, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
If this is a satire, you'll have to improve upon my cause-of-death associations to discredit them. Is it that Democratic mayors and governors are merely more incompetent, for example. New York City may be an outlier, but that doesn't explain why fatalities were far fewer in, say, Dallas. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 07:15, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
Look at this from the National Center for Biotechnology Information [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov], dated February 19, 2020: China recommends fish tank cleaner for Covid-19 patients.
The drug (chloroquine phosphate} is recommended to be included in the next version of the Guidelines for the Prevention, Diagnosis, and Treatment of Pneumonia Caused by COVID-19 issued by the National Health Commission of the People's Republic of China for treatment of COVID-19 infection in larger populations in the future.
Yah. The PRC. They're reliable partners for a research project. Methinks there's something curious going on here. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 07:36, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
I don't think everyone caught that. Red China should have recommended "chloroquine sulfate", not the deadly "chloroquine phosphate" that killed the husband of that pro-abortion fanatic. VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 07:49, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
Oh, I get it. On March 19, a month after the NCBI Abstract, when Trump named hydroxycxhloroquine as a possible remedy, he was ignoring our taxpayer-funded best minds in science at the NCBI and NIH who were working with and recommending fish tank cleaner from our loyal trading partners, the Chinese communists. Ok. I understand now. Trump doesn't listen to scientists. RobSDe Plorabus Unum
Lisa Haven does a deeper dive with more sources. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:01, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

Anthony Fauci is causing many Americans to die

Anthony Fauci is causing many Americans to die because he is not embracing the "battlefield medicine" of hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin and zinc (see: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment). And he is not embracing other treatments where the cost/benefit ratio makes sense.

If I were a patient who has a significant probability of acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS) and/or death or a low probability of side effects of an experimental and promising medicine with favorable results so far, I would certainly choose the latter.

Please see: Scoop: Inside the epic White House fight over hydroxychloroquineConservative (talk) 07:02, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

Fake news:
“If you’re a doctor listening to me right now and a patient with coronavirus feels like they want to try [Chloroquine],” Stigall asked, “and you’re their doctor, you’re not Anthony Fauci the guy running the coronavirus task force, would you say ‘alright, we’ll give it a whirl’?”
“Yeah, of course, particularly if people have no other option,” Fauci said. “These drugs are approved drugs for other reasons. They’re anti-malaria drugs, and they’re drugs against certain autoimmune diseases like lupus. Physicians throughout the country can prescribe that in an off-label way. Which means they can write it for something it was not approved for.”
—Anthony Fauci (March 25, 2020). "Fauci would prescribe chloroquine to patient suffering from COVID-19", interview with Chris Stigall. TownHall as reported by RedState, hat tip, @Drawandstrike (Brian Cates).
VargasMilan (talk) Tuesday, 07:45, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
"I don't even understand this controversy. The media is cancer."—Second City Bureaucrat.
VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 05:10, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
While body language is an inexact science, this vid is good for a few laughs. Look like Fauci is setting up Trump for a gotcha to blame Trump for Covid deaths after shelter restrictions are lifter. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:32, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

Boris Johnson and hydroxycholoroquine

The British government has very politely turned down Trump's offer. Possibly because we already have it here, possibly because people already taking it for lupus are also at risk form COVID 19, possibly because vague offers about unnamed organisations are no substitute for actual clinical intervention. Rafael (talk) 19:36, 7 April 2020 (EDT)

"You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time." - Donald Rumsfeld.
There is no vaccine. There is nothing that has been used on thousands of patients in a double blind study. As far as what there is now with the most empirical support, there is a treatment that has worked effectively with 699 patients who were treated by a medical doctor (see: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment).
If Boris Johnson or others wait for a clinical intervention tested on thousands of patients via a doubled blind study, he could be dead by then. If I were in a ICU, I know what I would do.
Prevention is the best thing now. I have decided that other than grocery shop at 6am sparingly and using the self-checkout, I am not going out of my residence.
Bottom line: Britain was too lackadaisical. The whole herd immunity joke of a plan that the Brits initially toyed with was idiotic.[92] Of course, given that Britain is the fountainhead of Darwinism, I didn't really expect them to come up with a good plan to combat a biologically related crisis! Once again, Singapore (which is an ex-colony of the British Empire) outshone its former colonizer. Singapore handled the coronavirus pandemic far better than the Brits.
And once the economically dynamic USA (also a formerly colony of the Brits) shakes off this pandemic, no doubt it will bounce back faster than the UK. USA! USA! USA! :) Conservative (talk) 21:45, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
I wish I could go to church. I feel the biblical admonition "Do not put the Lord your God to the test" applies in this case as far as church attendance during a pandemic. I don't plan on going to any snake-handling churches either. :) Conservative (talk) 22:01, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
Is the UK NHS such a liberal basket case it needs hand outs from the US for the Prime Minister? I thought the offer was just a polite gesture and formality. Evidently I was wrong, since it provoked a response here on CP. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 23:42, 7 April 2020 (EDT)
Britain's idiotic herd immunity plan that they backed off on and abandoned sounded Darwinian - like only the strong survive.[93] Now that someone in the UK upper/political class got struck with COVID-19, namely their leader, I cannot say that I am overwrought with empathy about Boris Johnson's case. When I heard about this plan, I said wait until prominent members the upper/political classes gets struck with coronavirus or wait until the backlash from the lower/middle classes occurs because of this pandemic, then they will back off it.
But maybe I am being too harsh. Britain is facing a difficult economic transition period post Brexit so it is harder for them to economically shut down a large part of their economy via a quarantine lockdown. Lockdowns cause their share of deaths too due to the suicides, domestic violence, etc. that they unfortunately bring.
Perhaps the Brits "keep a stiff upper middle lip" and we'll stoically muddle through philosophy played a part too. In an age of bellyaching, there is something admirable about such an attitude. It did help them cope in WWII when facing the Nazis.Conservative (talk) 02:13, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
I do wish the best for Boris Johnson. He is a likable guy and he did push Brexit through which will likely be a good thing over the long run. Despite my criticisms of the "mother country" that America has a "special relationship" with, there are many good things about the UK. I just think their herd immunity plan was on the ridiculous side with something as communicable and deadly as the coronavirus pandemic.Conservative (talk) 03:19, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
Herd immunity shouldn't be poo pooed. 40%+ of the planet will get infected in two years. The virus (even if it is manufactured in a lab} will be eternally with us. Resign yourself to the fact there is a high likelihood you will be infected at some point in the next years, or there after. Or your loved ones will. Use the time now to learn how to deal with it. Hopefully, when you do become infected, it will be with a small enough dose (I forget the Latin technical term} your body can react properly to deal with.
Rand Paul now tests negative. That doesn't mean he has shed the virus. It means he's built up the antibodies and has immunity now. He's now volunteering to work with patients. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:13, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
Let's go further: the 14 day self isolation period serves several purposes; (1} flatten the curve to stop overwhelming healthcare workers with minor cases and reduce the risks of non-infected persons showing up to get tested but rather become infected at healthcare facilities: (2} not spreading the virus from a person who is contagious who otherwise has a good chance of recovery; only persons at risk with underlying conditions need immediate treatment; and (3} in the 14 day period, an otherwise healthy person has time to build up antibodies and immunity.
This of course leads to a discussion of asymptomatic carriers and Supercarriers, which we'll deal with later once the fundamentals of "flattening the curve" and self isolation are fully digested. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:34, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
The term "herd immunity" means, after a half generation or so mothers with the correct antibodies will pass them on to their children. Again, resign yourself to the fact you likely will get infected and know how to react. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:39, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
So, understand the difference between asymptomatic carriers, and "non-infectious" or "non-contagious" carriers. The human species now need to become a race of non-infectious carriers, or herd immunity. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:46, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
IOWs, "slow the transmission" means you;re gonna get it sooner or later, but hopefully not overwhelm the healthcare system so that they can properly assess how vulnerable you are and in need of immediate hospitalization. To build herd immunity you need to follow the example of Rand Paul and help those who are trying to build antibodies for immunity, either through direct care, plasma transfusions, or education. Remember, this is unprecedented in most living people's lifetime. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:34, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
As conservatives, we need to prove Prof. Pamela Karlan wrong, who said during impeachment hearings: ""liberals tend to cluster more. Conservative, especially very conservative, people tend to spread out more, perhaps because they don't even want to be around themselves" Clustered liberals right now are spreading the virus among themselves in heavily Democratic areas; Rand Paul is clustering with stricken victims to help them recover and build herd immunity, one survivor at a time. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 17:41, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
"As there was no #SocialDistancing control group, it cannot be declared "the cure." All evidence is purely anecdotal.
"There is evidence #SocialDistancing made COVID-19 WORSE by reducing herd immunity. When COVID-19 returns in the Fall, and it will, fewer will be have immunity."—Bill Mitchell. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 06:04, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
"Not only does #SocialDistancing have no control group upon which to compare itself, it is unevenly administered within the regions it IS being observed.
"#SocialDistancing is just a premise for #Lockdowns. There is no proof it works, but there is proof lockdowns wreck economies."—Bill Mitchell. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 06:18, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

About 650,000 people die a year of cancer. Yet America does not change its dietary or exercise habits.

50,000 people die a year of suicide. Yet, for decades America has not improved its schools or fixed the trade policy - both of which would cause higher employment and less suicidal depression.

But America does shut down its economy despite Dr. Zelenko having a workable solution to combat the coronavirus. How many people are going to commit suicide due to the ill effects of the shutdown?

Lastly, Boris Johnson did not change his habits I heard from a video (or if he did it was too late). He kept shaking hands, etc. Hence, he got infected with coronavirus.Conservative (talk) 06:51, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Wuhan epidemic summed up

About 1,000,000 workers in capitalism thrown out of work and tens of thousands of small businesses destroyed so 12-30 U.S. liberal cities didn't have to turn into New York Citys for practicing the cultural Marxism (or be reported as being that way or take any steps to reform) they weren't supposed to to begin with, while Democratic mayors and their local liberal news reporters appeared with church leaders and made sanctimonious remarks appealing to charity. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 03:59, 8 April 2020 (EDT) corrected Wednesday, 08:53, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Warmer temperatures

Rob S.:

"Now comes Round 2 in China. With the spread of the virus south of the equator, there's scant evidence warmer temperatures will have much effect".

Bear in mind, Rob, these are third world countries. Every model now being used by the United States federal government show this species of seasonal coronavirus fading away here after mid-April. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 05:34, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Australia and Brazil are the two that need to be paid attention. They are two weeks into the Fall. Ecuador is tragic, the prime example of doing nothing to prepare. Their figures are like China, totally unreliable, not because of a coverup, but because of a total breakdown (leaving us to wonder what is really going on in North Korea. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:02, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Social distancing

THE MYTH OF SOCIAL DISTANCING:

How often do you "touch" total strangers in daily life? Those you do touch are familial/friends and you touch them in cars, home anyway.

So does "social distancing" from strangers you wouldn't touch anyway "make the difference" stopping COVID-19?

—Bill Mitchell

VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 05:45, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

There are many sound scientific arguments that #SocialDistancing and it's ugly cousin #Lockdowns make pandemics worse not better. They flatten the curve but widen the curve. We don't develop herd immunity so we set the stage for the virus to just keep coming back year after year. —Bill Mitchell

VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 08:31, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Social distancing does work. It is bringing down the curve in NY.
I think a combination of things should be done where appropriate. Japan and Singapore seem to be doing it right.
If Americans were thinner, wore more masks in public, used Dr. Zelenko's treatment, practiced social distancing in public, but perhaps had more people working, maybe that would be the best solution. A shutdown economy does cause a lot of depressions/suicides.
What America needs is a fat tax like Japan.
America also needs to create a Department of Fitness run by Chuck Norris! And the Department of Fitness should mandate that all fatties have to jog around the block several times a day. This would be the equivalent of public pillories. People could jeer at the fatties while they jog around the block. This type of social pressure would quickly pare down the percentage of fatties in the USA!
And America needs to stop subsidizing sugar which is totally ridiculous.Conservative (talk) 07:28, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
But New York's subways are full of people! VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 07:32, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
Rush Limbaugh warned us about "fat taxes"—don't say "new taxes" around Democrats; they'll stick their foot in the door. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 07:34, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
Wait, what? VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 07:36, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Inflated United States Wuhan virus death counts

"Well, Dr. Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid 19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid 19 death." —Brit Hume

VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 06:07, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

I'm not going to reprint the directive, but it says the federal government is aiming for 50% accuracy on Wuhan virus reports. The reason is to compensate health care providers with Wuhan virus payments in exchange for the loss of business they are suffering from people not wanting to get infected at their establishments. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 01:12, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Other Andrew Cuomo incidents

New York Governor Andrew Cuomo wears pink tie in front of American flag and New York state seal to sign unconstitutional abortion legislation, Albany, January 22, 2019.

"The NYS legislature APPLAUDED feverishly when Andy Cuomo, in a pink tie, signed the bill legalizing abortion UP TO BIRTH. Then he ordered the top of One World Trade Center to be lit pink, to celebrate. I’d like to be there on Judgement Day, when he has to answer to God." —@uptowngirl2008

VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 06:18, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Lockdown abuse

"I feel confident that if the government required masks and anti-viral gloves to go to work, and businesses remained open, people would adhere to those rules if the alternative was going broke.

"And yet this approach was never even considered." —Bill Mitchell

VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 06:18, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

I don't know much about the economics of the situation, but what I do know seems threatening, and I feel as though I'm obliged to try to explain what I think. I think but do not know that every day we are locked down is costing us billions. But I also think that if Trump underestimates the threat to health even once, it will be used as a soundbite, saying he doesn't care, and repeated ad infinitum to torpedo his re-election. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 06:46, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Two minute clip on the economic impact. [94] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:27, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Faith

Christian faith is about using complex propositions found in the Gospel and Holy Scripture to reconcile your unconverted feelings with spiritual realities having to do with the simple object of faith: the First Truth of God. The whole orb of the New Covenant can't be grasped at first with one single simple action. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 06:35, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Bill Mitchell: Top conservative on Twitter

"Shadowbanning is an amazing thing. A big part of shadowbanning is deleting likes. Despite having over 200 million views this month on my Twitter feed with a 6.2% engagement rate and 55,000 impressions per tweet, I still rarely get over 250 likes.

"That's the game Twitter plays." — Bill Mitchell

VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 07:03, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

It's a private website. If conservatives feel liberals (or progressives or leftists) are biased against us, why don't we make our own Twitter and YouTube and Google websites? --Ed Poor Talk 11:15, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
"Many of the principles set forth by the Supreme Court in Packingham [v. North Carolina] lead to what appellants believe is the natural progression of the law to hold that social media companies are liable for First Amendment violations, given the progression of technology and its infiltration into the daily lives of nearly every single person." (April 3, 2020)
—Antitrust case Freedom Watch, Inc., et al. v. Google Inc., et al., argued by Larry Klayman.
Incidentally, I helped finance this lawsuit.
VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 18:15, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
And don't forget, Twitter deleted ZeroHedge's largely-followed account for the reason that they reported correctly about the spread of the Wuhan virus that the Chinese were denying. It's more complicated that that, apparently. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 06:57, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Louis Pasteur, a hero of creationists, helps prevent spread of coronavirus

Creationists often argue that Louis Pasteur helped debunk evolutionism.[95][96]

Louis Pasteur invented the process of pasteurization.

Coins carry viruses better than paper money, experts say as China begins sterilizing cash.[97]

If you pasteurized your coin money via boiling, it will kill viruses.[98][99]

Through boiling, I just pasteurized all the quarters and some of the dimes in my residence. The paper cash, nickels, pennies, and remaining dimes are under quarantine! The creationist Moses was an early advocate of quarantine! Conservative (talk) 09:12, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Don't be an amateur about this—you need to do the large denomination bills in a special way. Please mail them to me, and I will take care of them. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 11:01, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
You should have mentioned this a week ago - :-) --Ed Poor Talk 11:13, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Trump's Chinese travel ban

RobS and I have both been underplaying it, but the airlines and Chinese nationals dodging Trump's travel ban is a really big deal. As it is, the airlines will be asking for billions in government bailouts, so on top of that, it could be a publicity nightmare. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 10:51, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Here is Biden calling Trump's ban on travel from China "hysterical xenophobia." With that payoff to Hunter Biden, Bank of China is sure getting its money's worth. PeterKa (talk) 01:22, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
"Niall Ferguson's latest column (paywall) notes that on Jan. 23 the Chinese cut off Hubei province from the rest of China -- but they didn't cut it off from the rest of the world. Direct flights out continued. Trump's travel restrictions kicked in only a week later." —@Doranimated
VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 01:24, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Covid-19 death toll surpasses H1N1

Nearly 2,000 more Americans died of Covid-19 today. The official U.S. death toll is now at 14,600. That means we've just surpassed the 2009-2010 H1N1 toll of 12,469 American deaths. If a Democrat is president, twelve thousand dead is a seasonal flu. I can remember when Obama modeled proper behavior in a pandemic by hugging Ebola victims. PeterKa (talk) 18:53, 8 April 2020 (EDT)

Today is the 7th of April; the forecast is to loose more than the U.S. lost in the Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghan wars all together. All civilians. The big news is, the public now knows coronavirus was manufactured in a lab. [100] Now, how much of hurry are you to get back to business as usual with the leftwing Chinese communist regime, with blood on its hands? [101] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:12, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
The Chinese regime needs to be punished, obviously. We'll be sure to make them start the bidding down on the opening price of their imports with a much lower starting number this time. VargasMilan (talk) Wednesday, 22:52, 8 April 2020 (EDT)
They already owe the rest of the planet $4 Trillion, about 6% of World GDP. Do you think things will ever be the same? Can we pretend the evidence in front of our faces doesn't exist? And we haven't even added in the cost of reparations to dead families, just lost income. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:16, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
Like the Nazis at Auschwitz, and the Soviets with Chernobyl, this is what happens when you let godless technocrats run a government. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:21, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
NewsBusters [run by Brent Bozell]: NBC and CBS both touted China ending the lockdown in Wuhan, while giving cover to the communist regime, saying there are merely "accusations" that China has lied about the number of infections and deaths in the country. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 02:16, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
Jim Geraghty (National Review Online): "From the company’s largest & most expensive theme park they’ve ever built, Universal Beijing Resort, to Universal Pictures access to Chinese moviegoers, Comcast [which owns NBC] has *enormous incentives* to stay on the good side of the govt in Beijing." h/t Mark Krikorian, Center for Immigration Studies. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 02:25, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Evolving narrative

Let me lay out the evolving narrative, subject to modifications at any time. Sources as of now are Chinese social media and published news source. Three points up front: (1} the wet market and eating bats is bunk; (2} we'll lay aside an accusation that it was a deliberate leak, for now; and (3} the CCP owes the planet as of now $4 Trillion, not the people of China. Even if the CCP were disposed tomorrow, it would be unreasonable to lay the burden of a $4 Trillion debt on a fledgling democracy. That's a discussion for another time.

Here are the evolving facts:

  1. It came out of the Wuhan Institute of Virology;
  2. Patient Zero was likely employed there and had bat urine or something spilled on her;
  3. It spread to the wet market and elsewhere;
  4. By December 24, 2019, local doctors discovered it was transmissible;
  5. By December 30, the Wuhan Municipal Health Department, likely at the direction of CCP higher ups, issued a warning to all the hospitals about the new virus and ordered them to shut up about it;
  6. By January 7, 2020 the Politburo Standing Committee was fully informed;
  7. On January 14, the WHO issued a planetary statement that the virus was non-transmissible.
  8. The CCP, WHO, Xi Jinping, Tadros Adhamon, etal are all criminally negligent.
  9. The same doctor who isolated the virus from bats, spliced it, and made it transmissible to humans, is the same doctor who put out the cover story it came from eating bats in the wet market. She is also Patient Zero's boss.
  10. The wet market didn't sell bats;
  11. Need I continue? Focus on these known facts now, and what it means. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 02:54, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

We're way ahead of you, RobS. If you would, please direct your attention to: Larry Klayman, Google - Twitter class action suit lawyer >gasp!<.


FREEDOM WATCH AND ISRAELI LAW FIRM FILE COVID-19 CLASS ACTION

International Effort Underway to Make Chinese Communists Pay Civilly and Criminally

(Tel Aviv, Israel and Washington, D.C., April 7, 2020). Larry Klayman, the founder of Freedom Watch, Inc. and now chairman and general counsel, and Israeli lawyers Ruth Machnes Suchovolsky, Arie Suchovolsky, and Yacov Bidor of A. Suchovolsky & Co. Law Firm in Tel Aviv announce the filing of a class action lawsuit against China for the huge damage to health and welfare and the economy of Israel. A copy of the complaint in Hebrew is embedded below.

Previously, Klayman and Freedom Watch had filed a similar class action in federal court in Dallas, Texas. He is proud to now partner with this fine Israeli law firm, in the interests of holding the Communist Chinese government accountable for the pandemic they have caused, mostly likely the result of the release of COVID-19 from a bioweapons laboratory in Wuhan China.

This new case in Israel will move quickly in a Jerusalem court and will be adjudicated by a three judge panel. Already a multitude of plaintiffs in Israel, as they have in the United States in the case in Texas, are coming forward to seek justice for the crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Chinese government.

In addition to Israel, Freedom Watch is in contact with lawyers around the world from Europe, to Africa, to Asia to Central and South America, to join Freedom Watch and our Israeli colleagues in our mission to hold the Communist Chinese to account, civilly and criminally for this worldwide pandemic. Just yesterday the International Criminal Court provided notice that it was processing the criminal complaint which Freedom Watch had filed against it. See www.freedomwatchusa.org.

Klayman had this to say in partnering up with A. Suchovolsky & Co. Law Firm in Israel:

"As an American and a Jew I am very gratified and feel privileged to team up with these excellent and dedicated legal counsel. Israel is America's closest ally and friend and both nations are mutually dependent on each other for their survival. Watch what we accomplish in the days and months ahead. Together we can accomplish what our governments cannot and will not do, as we are not constrained by international politics and are governed only by the rule of law and justice. With God's divine guidance, highlighted by this Passover period, I know that we will prevail, just as Moses did when, with fellow Jews in tow, God set them free from Egyptian bondage and they ultimately arrived in the promised land of Israel."

For more information contact daj142182@gmail.com or (424) 274 2579

VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 03:50, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

The Berman Group and Frank Biden are in on it too. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:27, 9 April 2020 (EDT) [102]
Steven Crowder was still pitching the "it came from eating bats in wet markets" CPP propaganda yesterday, so we obviously still have some work to do. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:57, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Assuming negligence and not deliberate intent...

Assuming criminal negligence and not criminal intent, what would be the motive for an active coverup from inception? The same motive as the Mayor of New Orleans before Mardi Gras - not to disrupt the lucrative tourist trade on the eve of a big travel holiday. While elements of that may true on the local level, it still doesn't explain the ongoing coverup from the top. Nor why Shi Zhengli made the claim it came from the wet market and not from her own experiments. Nor why on February 19, 2020 China "experts" claimed fish tank cleaner was a cure. Nor why China sold junk medical exports after the fact to profit off its own crimes. Nor a host of other coordinated CCP/fakes news media events such as a the White House Correspondents Association bringing a CCP operative into the White House press briefing room to question POTUS.

We may never know if it were deliberate cause the experts at the Wuhan lab will likely all be dead by the time an investigation ever reaches them, either from the virus or the gulag. So it looks like the criminal negligence narrative becomes the key. Is criminal negligence a crime against humanity? Not likely so in this case. But it can be cause for removal of the regime - albeit internally, if it fails to come clean. Pressure through sanctions externally are definitely in order.

And Tadros Adhamon is toast. He must go for the sake of the institution. Each day he remains is a crime against humanity. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:19, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Sad prospects for Democrats

"This crisis is making it impossible for Democrats in November. People getting a 30 day free trial of socialism, waiting in line for toilet paper. They see how dumb more government control can be - you're ordered into lockdown, while the prisoners are being released." —Mark Simone, New York.

VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 00:58, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

"The Trump Press Conferences have done something huge. They have blown up the #Media portrayal of Trump as a mean, stupid, uncaring bully.
"He has seemed sharp, well-spoken, compassionate and sincere.
"Nightmare scenario for Dems."—Bill Mitchell
VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 05:42, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Crowds surge as China lifts lockdown

This is what it looks like when people under lockdown can finally go out. You may not have heard of the Huang Mountains, but you've probably seen pictures. PeterKa (talk) 01:36, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

They had to end the lockdown for economic reasons. If some people get the virus, so be it. They're suppose to know precautionary measures by now. Hospitals at least shouldn't be overwhelmed, and maybe the threat of going back into lockdown will be enough if outbreak pockets start occurring again. Between the dead and those who have built immunity, the risks aren't that great to whole population anymore. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 02:01, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
South Dakota governor is locking down the elderly and declaring a day of prayer. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 02:17, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
I hope none of the Chinese in the video spoil the glorious reopening by reporting sick. They could be cremated alive. China is seriously crowded everywhere. Social distancing is not going work. You can see that from the video. China has banned not just reporters, but all foreigners. The party is ready for some wet work. Whatever it takes to get those exports flowing again, I suppose. PeterKa (talk) 02:28, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
There ain't going to be no exports. What the hell is the matter with you? Would you trade with the Nazis just cause they closed Auschwitz and promised to stop killing people? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 03:30, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
  • I wouldn't trade with China until they diplomatically recognized Taiwan as an independent country and stopped persecuting religious people. (Also, an apology for the 20 million to 60 million people their government killed under Mao, would help.) --Ed Poor Talk 10:41, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
There will if media giant Comcast has its way. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 03:39, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
  • I can tell you that China is pushing exports hard these days. My former students in the import/export industry are contacting me for help. If anyone wants to import, let me know. I suspect that the price is right. Cosmetics, food, clothes, electronics -- it's ready to go. I didn't ask about fentanyl. PeterKa (talk) 07:43, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
Have they discounted those 80% defective medical supplies yet? Nice scam; the CCP faces unemployment and layoffs due to the trade war, so they unleash coronavirus and sell $4 Billion worth of defective masks, PPEs, and ventilators to keep the factories and exports going. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:19, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Not VD or cultural Marxism, but, obesity?! RobS was right

"GOP will spin this as, "See! The Democrats are the real racists!"
"Dems will spin this was, "Systemic racism."
"When in fact these death rates closely track obesity rates.
"Except in NYC and other urban, whites are unusually thin.
"In rural areas, whites more likely to be obese."
Mike Cernovich

VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 03:38, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

It's probably a mix of things: Black ladies and Latinas often work in nursing homes, hospitals and people's homes as nursing aids where people can get infected.
Many poor black/Latinos ride buses where people can get infected and one reason they are poor is their public schools are bad.
Obesity rates are high for poor minorities. Less educated people are more obese. So are many welfare queens/kings.
It is true that blacks have higher than normal rates of single mothers and premarital sex and that would certainly cause greater infection rates. It is also true that single motherhoood causes a lot of poverty.
And I do not know to what degree the poor are practicing social distancing, but my guess says that the more educated a person is, the more they practice social distancing. And poor people are often less educated.
Not if you read Bill Mitchell's commentary! VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 07:30, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
Of course, none of the politicians want to spend too much time talking about the root causes of poverty or obesity. Conservative (talk) 07:06, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
DNC propaganda; none of the DNC base takes coronavirus seriously. I was told point blank by a Democrat believer days ago coronavirus is a conspiracy between Trump and China to exterminate blacks and poor people. As usual, do you think its possible to reason with a Democrat? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:13, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

The "experts" backtrack on masks: "Sorry, we lied."

From the data on Covid-19 deaths coming out of Korea and Japan, it is clear that masks do prevent infections. Even New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, previously a crusader against masks, now admits this. So why did the CDC, the surgeon general, the WHO, and the AMA and all the rest spend so much time claiming that they didn't? Here is de Blasio: “The concern throughout was, we didn’t want a situation where people were taking supplies, surgical masks, N95’s away from the people who are doing the life-and-death work [and] who must be protected. . . . nor did we want to create a sense that if you had something over your face you didn’t need to practice social distancing, [or that] you didn’t need to shelter in place, which are much more important strategies." PeterKa (talk) 03:52, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

There's a sliver of truth to this: masks-while-shopping alone aren't enough to protect the elderly with pre-existing conditions, but they do prevent the coughs and sneezes of the sick that would exceed the six-foot rule—a benefit they ignored. Of course they didn't need to derail the economy to protect the elderly, those with certain medical conditions and vapers. They could have locked down them and those that live with them, and required masks, no touching, Purell and training at small businesses at the risk of angering their customers. And people thought social distancing worked. VargasMilan (talk) Thursday, 04:07, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
Why? The answer is simple. And you'd know the answer if you paid attention. There aren't enough masks for medical personal let alone 330 million civilians. And we (1}, can't make 330 million masks in 30 days, (2}, can't buy 330 million masks from China, and (3} how many disposable masks does one healthcare worker need daily.
Seriously, just where exactly do you get your information from? And secondly, Tadros Adhamon just threatened the United States will need more body bags because the "the focus of a political party is to save itself" and his Marxist allies will unleash another virus if the first round of blackmail didn't work. It's long past time to wake up. And nobody has any excuse during lockdown that they are too busy to pay attention.
Typical Millenials. They turn on the faucet or flip a light switch and have no idea whatsoever where the water or electricity comes from. More concerned about the Green New Deal and anal sex as God-given human right. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 10:56, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
It's easy enough to make your own mask. Watch Colin Hanks show you how. One benefit of masks it that they discourage the wearer from touching his face. That may have been overlooked in the earlier studies that deemed masks to be useless. PeterKa (talk) 18:53, 9 April 2020 (EDT)
Here is a CDC video on making your own mask. It takes two rubber bands and a piece of cloth. PeterKa (talk) 03:43, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

My latest articles

Just in time for Easter, I finished articles on the Byzantine Empire and the Temple Mount. PeterKa (talk) 18:38, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Nice!Conservative (talk) 18:55, 9 April 2020 (EDT)

Trump Remaining in Office?

The Main Page item concerning Pres. Trump serving as president until a vaccine has been developed is a complete fantasy. Trump’s term ends on 20 Jan 2021. [103] The only way he legally remains in office is if he is voted in by the electors of the states. If the election is delayed after this date and he remains in office, then he is a dictator. I know a Trump dictatorship appeals to many people, but this would not be an ideal situation. As for the constitutional amendment? Another fantasy.--JLind (talk) 01:58, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

A "Trump dictatorship" only exists in the liberal media-influenced imaginations of liberals like yourself. What you're doing is engaging in wishful thinking to suit your TDS-influenced narrative. Northwest (talk) 02:38, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
Yes, yes. I see. No need to comment on the substance of my post. Do you talk to family and friends this way? Doubt it, I don’t think you have the guts. By the way, Trump is on record joking about being ‘president for life’. [104] So unless he has the ‘liberal media-influenced imaginations of liberals’, I’d say you’re incorrect. MAGA 2024! [105]--JLind (talk) 12:19, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
Democrats live in densely populated areas. To hold a presidential election in November of 2020 may mean that Democrats are going to die of coronavirus due to waiting in election booth lines. The Democrats who catch coronavirus due to such an election will be like sheep being lead to slaughter. And for what? To try to elect a mentally incompetent Joe Biden?
Nancy Pelosi needs to sponsor a constitutional amendment to postpone the 2020 presidential election until a PROVEN vaccination for coronavirus is provided to the American public at large.Conservative (talk) 18:37, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
Republicans also live in highly populated areas, 26% of the mayors in the fifty largest US cities are Republican. I plan on voting for the mentally competent Joe Biden. Some vaccines have been in work for decades. I hope you are not suggesting Trump should be president for such a long time. As for the amendment, what did your representative say when you brought up this idea?--JLind (talk) 23:19, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
And what if Dems deem Biden mentally unfit and dump him? You gonna goosestep to whoever the DNC Politburo chooses? They're not going to choose the next candidate with the most votes. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 03:40, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
One: I already commented on your original post when I first replied, JLind, and there wasn't much substance to it to begin with. Two: CNN is not a reliable source because being the TDS-afflicted liberal media outlet it is, they will purposely and selectively take Trump quotes out of context and then lie about it to try (and fail) to make him look bad. Three: Congrats on confirming yourself as a liberal through your confirmation of who you're voting for in November, someone who's been the real-life equivalent of the Crazy Old Man on The Simpsons [106] for well over a decade (i.e. Joe Biden) and is nowhere near mentally competent. Northwest (talk) 05:49, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
Going right back at ya. What if Repubs deem Trump unfit and dump him? Some already have. [107] Someone engages in a fantasy on the Main page and I use the constitution and a CP reference to reply? This is a lack of substance? The CNN audio clip actually showed Trump JOKING and they obviously knew it was a joke. Get a grip. Or can you explain to me how CNN took Trump out of context? Biden is being called a crazy old man for his occasional gaffs. Yet Trump loving republicans have no trouble with him lying or distorting the truth over 15,000 times over his first three years in office. [108] Yeah, I know, you’ll kick and scream about the reference to a publication Trump despises. But tell you what, tell me what is wrong with the last ten lies or distortions the Post has highlighted. --JLind (talk) 12:11, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
One: Never-Trump RINOs don't count. Two: What you call Trump "lying (and) distorting the truth", again, is nothing more than TDS-influenced wishful thinking on your part, while the Democrats and their liberal media puppets are themselves guilty of exactly what you accuse Trump of doing. Three: Making excuses and getting huffy (as well as relying on twisting the truth and throwing it back in others' faces) when you get called out for using non-reliable liberal media sources (i.e. CNN and the Washington Post) still won't make your case. Four: Better start minding your P's and Q's. Northwest (talk) 12:24, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
Actually, RINOs do count. And they VOTE. Think about it, never-Trumper-RINOs swaying the election. Some of the biggest names in politics are former never-Trumpers, i.e. Hannity, Rubio, Graham and countless others of note. I think you won’t take my advice and look at a couple of the alleged Trump lies listed by the Post because, deep down in the recesses of your soul, you know I’m right. Why do you excuse Trump of befriending the Clintons back in the day? Are not Clinton friends simply liberal scum? Why make an exception for Trump? As for quoting liberal sources, CP admins use them as authoritative sources on occasion, why can’t I? You know what would really make my day? Evidence, instead of screaming liberal on a continuous basis. I know you could do it if you actually tried. Dip your toe in the pool and test the waters. You’re missing out on a huge world of knowledge. --JLind (talk) 15:29, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
JLind, Put the meth pipe down. You're ranting into a psychotic echo chamber. No one listens anymore. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:47, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
Never knew people smoked meth until you mentioned it. Shows how much I know. Weed was the thing back in my day. Can’t use either if I want to maintain my security clearance. As for the psychotic echo chamber, why is the person using facts and references the one being accused of smoking crack, I mean, meth? --JLind (talk) 16:17, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
"Actually, RINOs do count. And they VOTE. Think about it, never-Trumper-RINOs swaying the election" - It didn't help them in 2016 and it won't help them this November either.

"I think you won’t take my advice and look at a couple of the alleged Trump lies listed by the Post because, deep down in the recesses of your soul, you know I’m right" - It's the Washington Post, so I know you're wrong.

"Why do you excuse Trump of befriending the Clintons back in the day? Are not Clinton friends simply liberal scum? Why make an exception for Trump?" - Donald Trump changed his political stripes, the Clintons are still the same today as they've ever been. What could be asked is why you insist on making excuses for any Democrat (the party of racism, slavery, corruption, etc. since 1828) while you see fit to continually lie about Trump based on the liberal media's influence on your mind and your way of thinking and its resulting effects.

"As for quoting liberal sources, CP admins use them as authoritative sources on occasion, why can’t I?" - When you use them to advance a liberal POV here, that's when you run into problems.

"You know what would really make my day? Evidence, instead of screaming liberal on a continuous basis" - Perhaps that wouldn't be an issue if you didn't justify/deny/make excuses for liberal malfeasance every chance you get.

"Dip your toe in the pool and test the waters. You’re missing out on a huge world of knowledge" - You mean what passes for "knowledge" among liberals (i.e. academic dishonesty, fake news, historical revisionism, intellectual dishonesty, liberal "logic", etc.), especially considering that you haven't used any legitimate facts or references yourself? Nope, not gonna happen. Donald Trump's staying in the White House until January 20, 2025 whether you and the rest of the liberal hive-mind like it or not and you have no choice but to live with it. Northwest (talk) 16:44, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
Your parents are going to take away your computer privileges if you keep spouting nonsense. --JLind (talk) 18:01, 11 April 2020 (EDT)--JLind (talk) 18:05, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
Okay, back to the time-out corner for you. Northwest (talk)

One reason I find it pointless to try to reason with hardcore partisans, especially one that advocates a political entity with a recent history of corruption, is the lack of honesty. Biden doesn't commit occasional gaffes, he commits them frequently. And that is precisely why his handlers limit his time being exposed to the public. Hence, his disappearance amidst the coronavirus crisis for a week which caused many people to say "Where's Joe?"

I wish the Democrats didn't engage in a disproportionate amount of voter fraud and mail in voting wasn't so problematic when it comes to voter fraud (Potential for Fraud Is Why Mail-In Elections Should Be Dead Letter and Heed Jimmy Carter on the Danger of Mail-In Voting).

If you don't believe voter fraud is a significant issue when it comes to Democrats, look at all the criminal convictions for voter fraud in Democratically leaning states like Illinois, New York, etc. at Voter Fraud Map. In addition, read this article: Voter fraud is a huge problem in the Democratic Party.

If the Democrats put social pressure on Joe Biden to pull out due to his mental incompetence (leading Democrats publicly admitting Joe Biden is mentally incompetent) and started the process over again and Andrew Cuomo won the Democrat nomination for president, at least an argument could be made for holding the presidential election in November of 2020. The Democrats need to get their act together and publicly admit Joe Biden isn't mentally fit to be president which is very obvious.

Absent of Biden being forced out via social pressure, Nancy Pelosi should initiate some kind of constitutional amendment that would prevent Biden from being president (some kind of scientific/objective cognitive test being required to run for office combined with medical tests for dementia, etc.). Alternatively, just initiate a constitutional amendment to postpone presidential elections due to highly communicable pandemics with significant death rates. I wish the Democrats had some sense of decency and that Joe Biden wasn't so narcissistic/corrupt and would just pull out due to his mental incompetence, but unfortunately this isn't the case. I do think that elders have wisdom and understand the founding fathers preventing people under 35 from being president.

Of course, if the Democrats and their mainstream press enablers were reasonable and just admitted that Vladimir Zelenko's treatment of coronavirus infections was very promising in terms of it being highly effective (see: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment), one could easily argue that holding the presidential election in November of 2020 could be justified and measures like using social pressure to get Biden to drop out or Nancy Pelosi initiating a constitutional amendment to delay the election would be rendered superfluous.

The Democratic Party has become a joke. It shouldn't be this hard to nominate a mentally competent candidate who is not up to his neck in corruption. Joe Biden is mentally incompetent and Joe Biden and his son are very corrupt.Conservative (talk) 16:34, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

Democrats being so corrupt and incompetent sadly is a reflection that American baby boomers and their progeny (the millennials) are corrupt and incompetent. Social security should have been reformed and lifestyle changes should have been more encouraged so people would be more productive and mentally/physically healthy. The Japanese are far more physically/mentally healthy than Americans.
In addition, the Democrats have been pushing abortion, societal disharmony and class warfare (identity politics, etc.) so Joe Biden, Hunter Biden and Hillary Clinton/Bill Clinton being steeped in corruption are symptomatic of the problems in the Democratic Party.
Next, as far as the measures I suggested above which were largely suggested to mock/taunt Democrats and their feigned concern for the public welfare, these were not suggested because I thought they would be implemented. On the other hand, I do think that more Democrats should put public pressure on Biden to drop out the race due to his mental incompetence - even out of their own self-interest. I doubt Americans are going to elect "sleepy Joe Biden" and he doesn't seem to have a lot of enthusiastic supporters.
Lastly, as far as the commentary of one of my British, agnostic ankle biting critics, the United States is a constitutional republic. It is not a democracy.Conservative (talk) 17:29, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

Handshake is back already, RobS, at least among globalists, others demur

Vice (April 8, 2020): As Wuhan emerges from lockdown, we spoke with one graduate student on why he thinks it is now the safest place on earth. [Way to provide good publicity for China, already, Vice!]

Walmart (April 8, 2020): Plans afoot to invest $425M in Wuhan over five years.

Matthew Stoller (April 9, 2020): The US government needs to get control of American multinationals. Enough.

VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 04:01, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

BREAKING: Executive Branch agencies just unanimously recommended the FCC revoke and terminate China Telecom’s Services in the US.

China Telecom is the U.S. subsidiary of a People’s Republic of China (PRC) state-owned telecommunications company. - Per DOJ—Bowen Xiao, The Epoch Times website. h/t 𝓛𝓲𝓼𝓪 [@RockPrincess818]

VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 05:21, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

"Japan to pay firms to leave China, relocate production elsewhere as part of coronavirus stimulus

"More than US$2 billion of the country’s record economic stimulus package will be used to help companies move production away from China"—South China Morning Post website. h/t 𝓛𝓲𝓼𝓪 [@RockPrincess818]

VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 06:33, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

Looks like we have a new Chinese Cold War. In the long run, if the CCP wants to try to survive and is not toppled internally by a coup, we can only look forward to (1} the CCP pressuring North Korea to fall in line and end the rapprochement with the U.S.; and (2} the CPP, à la the former Soviet Union, exporting AK-47s - it's only remaining export for world demand - to de-stabilize Africa and hope to relieve the glory days of unwinnable wars like Korea and Vietnam in a futile attempt to blackmail the planet for re-admission to global trade.
First things first however. The traitorous World Heath Organization must be dealt with decisively, with UN member states abandoning it en masse and leaving it to its CCP slave masters and forming a new organization. Personally, I think its reputation is beyond repair. Simply firing that commie Tadros isn't reform. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:05, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
  • The US government needs to get control of American multinationals. Enough.
Yes. McDonald's in China is practicing institutional racism [109] - a violation of U.S. law. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:46, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

Chloroquine allegiances

Publisher of journal that Trump cited with article showing benefits of Chloroquine: "We disavow! We disavow! We disavow our own article!"

Emanuel Macron: "I avow Dr. Didier Raoult, The French Dr. Zelenko! I avow Dr. Raoult! The Gilead Science drug Remdesivir has a lot of side effects! I'm visiting his lab!"*

  • I don't want to give Andy indigestion about possible fights over my satires, so let me stiplulate I don't know why Emanuel Macron has sought out Dr. Raoult for a photo-op with him in a face mask, but it may very well have something to do with Remdesivir's side effects, which were reported by the author of Bronze Age Mindset on Twitter.

VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 04:33, 10 April 2020 (EDT) VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 04:50, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

The Daily Beast: Macron, what are you doing?! Dr. Didier Raoult is a climate denier too! He denies there are climates! He's no doctor...he just wants the situation to be where Trump has a wonder drug, and we liberals don't!*

  • I don't need to stipulate anything, here—that's actually a less hysterical portrayal of the Daily Beast article and Justin Baragona's introduction to it.

VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 08:16, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

The phrase that the phrase "white nationalism" was intended to displace

"Civic nationalism". VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 05:34, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

When top conservatives on Twitter women grow too popular

shadow-banning them proves ineffective. So they get banned outright and allowed to return, where, with low followers, they can be effectively shadow-banned. This is what happened to ChristieChat (300,000 followers, now 14,300 followers) and Feisty☀Floridian for the second time last week (grew back to 33,000 followers), except she has not even been allowed to return, at least not yet. Not to mention Laura Loomer (221,800) for the benefit of whom (partially and as an example) the Twitter lawsuit I mentioned was filed. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 05:55, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

Chanel Rion, White House reporter and Trump favorite

When you are as pretty as this, you can break all the social distancing guidelines you like: "EXCLUSIVE: A changed name, an alleged fraudster dad and a VERY questionable resume: So how did Donald Trump's favorite White House correspondent pass security checks to become the social-distancing-defying briefing-crasher?." PeterKa (talk) 07:11, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

OAN is also home to top Conservative on Twitter, Liz Wheeler. VargasMilan (talk) Friday, 07:27, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
Rion has a Korean mother and was homeschooled, according to this. She met her fiancé at a CIA recruiting event in Harvard. PeterKa (talk) 07:40, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
OAN has already responded. Old news. [110][111][112] RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:26, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
I thought the "news" here was mostly a pretext for the Daily Mail to publish a magnificent set of photos. PeterKa (talk) 20:11, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

Conservative News and Views article

float

[113]What the "Worldwide Deaths 2020" chart does not explain is all other statistics except Coronavirus will quadruple by the end of year where Coranavirus is quadrupling every two weeks. At this rate abortion which is the highest at this time will claim 40,000,000 lives whilst Coronavirus will claim 400,000,000,000 by 2021.--Chewy Suarez (talk) 17:24, 10 April 2020 (EDT)

One of the reasons why experts are so wrong so often is because extrapolation can be so unreliable.
For example, on the British cruise ship Diamond Princess, which essentially was a floating petri dish for coronavirus with its central air system, only 20% of the cruise ship passengers got infected with coronavirus. It is possible, that 80% of the populace has a natural immunity against coronavirus.Conservative (talk) 20:44, 10 April 2020 (EDT)
Chewy: I started a job and worked Thursday and Friday of the last two-week period and earned $100 and then worked ten days of this two-week period and earned $500. My total pay is sextupling every two weeks! Wow! VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 00:19, 11 April 2020 (EDT) better example: VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 07:38, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

Council to Re-Open the Country After Coronavirus Pandemic

International Journalism Review: Reuters posted a new post, Trump to Unveil Council to Re-Open the Country After Coronavirus Pandemic 33 minutes ago

“We will be announcing that in a short while. Probably Tuesday.”

VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 07:56, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

Interesting unemployment stat

MPR correctly states that 1.4 million people were unemployed in March. But you might not know that 1.6 million more left the workforce and are not seeking new employment. Nevertheless, I still believe this is a temporary situation. VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 09:32, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

Coronavirus pandemic, Herd immunity policies and "compassionate" liberalism/leftism

The pro-evolution country Sweden instituting a herd immunity like policy to the coronavirus crisis and the pro-evolution UK toying with the idea for awhile, causes me skepticism as far as liberals/leftists dedication to the public welfare. It smacks of survival of the fittest ideology hijacking public policy. Meanwhile, the elderly and people with medical conditions like asthma take the brunt of their callous public policies.

And to top it off, they do not heavily promote a very promising medical solution to the coronavirus pandemic - namely Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment.Conservative (talk) 18:32, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

Pro-immunity policy? I thought the compassionate leftwing liberals were trying to exterminate the black population by letting the virus spread among Somalis. What do I know. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:54, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
In the U.S., liberals want to close the country down as a weapon against Trump. When a Social Democrat is prime minister, it is perfectly legitimate to worry about the economy. All the same, Sweden's days as a covid-19 outliner may be numbered, according to this article. PeterKa (talk) 22:04, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

Race for vaccine that is approved for widespread use: 10-12 months will probably arrive?

An expert from the medical community is quoted as saying a coronavirus vaccine will be ready for widespread use in 10-12 months.[114]Conservative (talk) 22:23, 11 April 2020 (EDT)

I realize the experts have a bad track record in terms of predicting the future.Conservative (talk) 22:23, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
Dr. Anthony Fauci indicates that a vaccine will probably be developed in 12-18 months.[115]Conservative (talk) 22:46, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
Just to be on the safe side and in the interest of public health, Nancy Pelosi needs to initiate a constitutional amendment indicating Donald Trump will be president until at least 2 more years and then face reelection. America needs a PROVEN medical intervention to coronavirus before it can even think about holding an election. Anecdotal medical interventions - no matter how promising - are not enough (see: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment). In 2 more years, sleepy Joe Biden will be even more sleepier. 6 more years of a glorious Trump presidency!Conservative (talk) 22:42, 11 April 2020 (EDT)
No need to panic. It's not that big a problem. Soon, very soon, you can get tested at your local Walgreens, CVS, Walmart or wherever. There will be priority as to who gets tested first, that is people at risk, elderly, immunodeficient, etc. These will be the first for treatment, vaccinations, etc.
As to the numbers, about 15% of the population are at risk of having a reaction to the virus needing some kind of treatment. The fatality rate overall is about 0.5%, five times greater than seasonal flu and about 1 in 30 of the 15% in need of treatment.
Meantime, education, social distancing, masks etc. will continue. A German study finds contracting the virus at work is less risky than in a fun or social setting. Mask production is now way up, and the need for these is because of asymptomatic carriers, generally young, healthy, and stupid. We'll get the economy reopened soon.
Again, we're back to basics. 80% of the planet will get infected over two years; you will get the virus either accidentally through an infection or through a measured vaccine. Right now we're focused on identifying vulnerable individuals, avoiding widespread outbreaks, and overwhelming healthcare workers and the healthcare system. America actually has done pretty well. The 20,000 dead figure is exaggerated cause it includes seasonal flu, heart attacks, diabetes, obesity and all kinds of other underlying causes. And no, the idea America has the most deaths is fake news. China could actually have over 1 million, according to some sources.
So there is no need to panic. We're buying time, building supplies, identifying at-risk individuals, building immunity, developing a vaccine, not overwhelming the system. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 00:02, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

I am not panicking. God will provide.

I can understand why Trump says the country should open up again for business as soon as possible and why he is pushing hydroxychloroquine and flooding the drug into coronavirus hotspots according to Peter Navarro.[116].

I refer to this: Fed Chair Powell says U.S. economy deteriorating with alarming speed.

There is no guarantee of a V shaped economic recovery and I take the view there is not going to be a V shaped bounce due the reasons given in this interview: Kevin Warsh and The Long Road Back to Economic Recovery. Kevin Warsh gives some reasons to be optimistic (in the long run at least) and makes an argument as to why the U.S. economy is well suited to make a strong recovery.[117] Warsh believes a financial recovery will take financial quarters to resolve before a recovery occurs. Walsh believes that the coronavirus crisis will cause some long term positive effects though (not be so dependent on China for supply chains, etc.).

America should have reformed its entitlement programs earlier and never elected big spending Obama twice. Now a highly leveraged country is adding more debt.

The text on the left refers to NET public debt/GDP ratio. This chart shows GROSS public debt/GDP ratio, but the shape is the same.

"Spending increases and tax cuts have already pushed US government debt up to $17 trillion, doubling the country's debt to GDP ratio to nearly 80% since 2008. According to Commerzbank, the coronavirus relief packages approved so far will push that figure to 96% by 2022."[118]

"There is also some controversy over the threshold level of debt to GDP beyond which growth is severely compromised. For example, Reinhart and Rogoff’s analysis, which has been very influential and is cited extensively by policy-makers on both sides of the Atlantic, seems to suggest that public debt in excess of 90% of GDP is unsafe and harmful to growth in advanced countries."[119]

"To put these figures into perspective, the U.S.'s highest debt-to-GDP ratio was 121.7% at the end of World War II, in 1946."[120]

"Still, Goldman Sachs on March 24 predicted Italy’s debt-to-GDP ratio, which was 137% in the third quarter of 2019, would rise to 161% this year. The investment bank expects the comparable metric for France and Spain to surpass 100% by some margin."[121]

Italy will probably leave the EU as a result and that will be another important beginning of the end for EU and it will break up (Brexit and Merkel's acceptance of lots of immigrants was the very beginning of the end).Conservative (talk) 03:56, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

Growth is the least of our worries; it'll be the second American industrial revolution with all those manufacturing jobs coming home from China.
Absent a quick overthrow of the Chinese regime internally, most people haven't woken up to the fact we now are at war. Modern warfare is very different from past experiences.
For example, with the USS Theodore Roosevelt down, it's the perfect time for China to fulfill its long time wish to annex Taiwan. Oddly, their amphibious assault ship just went up in flames. [122] But there are other hot spots on the planet where people looking to fulfill longterm ambitions suddenly have opportunities.
As recovery commences, we need to brace for other unknown contingencies, like a second round of bioweapon attacks. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 04:43, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
You have no certainty there was a first bioweapon attack from China. And the fact that China had a coronavirus epidemic doesn't lend credence to your assertion there was a first one.Conservative (talk) 05:55, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
He obviously means, ex hypothesi. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 05:39, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Japan is pulling their manufacturing out of China and paying their companies to leave China.[123][124] Other countries companies, including the USA, will do some pullbacks too.
Rob and I mentioned that and other denunciations already in this section Talk:Main Page#Handshake is back already, RobS, at least among globalists, others demur. It wasn't about "literal" handshakes. RobS was furious that anyone was even considering doing business with China, so I had to ease the news of new business deals by globalists to him slowly, as not to rile him. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 06:39, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
And China is facing a looming food crisis too.[125] So they will have to import more American food. This could cause a crisis of social stability in China and perhaps finally end the communist control of China.Conservative (talk) 06:08, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Can antibiotics be the answer? I know President Trump said the virus was proving resistant to known antibiotics but perhaps some research in that area may prove beneficial.--Chewy Suarez (talk) 11:03, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
There is no question 2019-nCoV was manufactured in lab. There is no evidence it has any medicinal or scientific purpose. We've already debated above whether its release was accidental or deliberate. There is no question at a minimum its release was criminal negligence, from the highest levels of the CCP and the WHO. So, go ahead and pretend that you do not know or understand facts, you yourself then become as a big a danger to the public itself as the virus. Wake up. Get smart. Get real.
The Chinese communist regime is out of the community of nations. The Chinese communist regime is a rogue pariah state. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:08, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

You have provided no definitive evidence COVID-19 was manufactured in a lab.

The historian David Hackett Fischer wrote the book Historians’ Fallacies: Toward a Logic of Historical Thought (New York: Harper Collins, 1970).

Fischer wrote:

(1) The burden of proof for a historical claim is always upon the one making the assertion.

(2) "An empirical statement must not be more precise than its evidence warrants."

(3) "All inferences from historical evidence are probabilistic." Conservative (talk) 14:42, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

This is just crap. Where do you get information from? Does CBS, CNN, and PBS have to tell you 2019-nCoV was manufactured by Dr. Shi Zhengli at the Wuhan Institute of Virology before you will believe it? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:42, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

Let me be more blunt...

And you, User:Conservative, took the CCP propaganda war bait, hook line and sinker, and posted it on MPR that Covid-19 came from eating bats. You need to investigate facts that have since been uncovered, documented in CCP pandemic coverup, and walk back your earlier statements to regain credibility on the subject of coronavirus. Till then, anyone listening to you is a fool. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:50, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

You can be blunt as you want, but do be sure to be accurate, which you were not!
I just looked at the previous main page posts on the coronavirus and I used words like "maybe", "exotic animals", cats, etc. (see: https://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page/Previous_Conservapedia_Breaking_News . In short, I took at David Hackett Fischer approach of "the burden of the proof is upon the claimant" and history is probabilistic.
Furthermore, in the Dietary practices of atheists article, in the coronavirus section, I merely said bat meat sales had been banned during the coronavirus epidemic in China and that bat eating was asked to be banned by various world authorities in China post the SARS outbreak.
Next, when positing a hypothesis/theory such as the coronavirus is a bioweapon, one should definitely look at the data that could falsify or likely falsify the hypothesis or theory. The article at Forbes entitled No, COVID-19 Coronavirus Was Not Bioengineered. Here’s The Research That Debunks That Idea does give compelling data that points to the coronavirus likely not being bioengineered.Conservative (talk) 19:27, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Bottomline: you got played. You took CCP propaganda hook, line, and sinker. You need to rewrite several passages on several pages you created then. And you're still now holding to the CCP line, and doing nothing to educate readers on the facts. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:05, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
I think you very much want the CCP to have bioengineered the virus and are engaging in confirmation bias. The Forbes article made a good case that is was not bioengineered.
Hanlon's razor is an aphorism "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity". The CCP should have shut down the selling of wild animals for meat after SARS.Conservative (talk) 20:11, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
You're just talking junk now. Here's the facts that need to be cobbled into narrative. And it becomes more difficult because of Chinese censorship; so if you want to help, study these facts:
  1. Shi Zhengli engineered the virus:
  2. When the virus leaked (accidentally? deliberately?}, Shi Zhengli provided the scientific report saying it came from bats, i.e., a cover story it came from nature.
  3. Shi's scientific report was interpreted and relayed through Chinese media and Western press that 2019-nCoV was a natural virus. These same news reports then cited the Wuhan wet market as the source where it originated.
  4. The Wuhan wet market did not sell bats.
  5. The respected UK Lancet immediately, the same day fake news reports emerged, knocked down the report that the virus originated in the Wuhan wet market.
Study these facts. You went with CCP propaganda from the gitgo. Sen. Tom Cotton and others were smeared as conspiracy theorists for citing The Lancet.
There's no need for you to be defensive. Just correct the articles you created, stop repeating CCP propaganda and accusing critics of being conspiracy theorists. Fix the error and move forward. Time is short. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:27, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

I skimmed this article because I am involved in something with a deadline: The Trail Leading Back to the Wuhan Labs.

The article brings forth indirect evidence, but not direct evidence. So what I said before about no definitive proof that it was engineered still holds. It is just not a fact that the virus was engineered. When it comes history, historical claims are often probabilistic.Conservative (talk) 21:08, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

Your evidence is in the links at Shi Zhengli and CCP propaganda war; your original assertion is based on Shi Zhengli saying it came from bats, which is true. But Shi Zhengli and Chinese media that reported her assertion did not inform us that she isolated the virus, spliced it, and made it transmissible to humans. While she is or was internationally recognized as a scientific expert, her words after the outbreak were used by the regime to create the propaganda narrative that you are still holding to. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 21:18, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
I looked the Shi Zhengli article.
This paragraph appears to be the key paragraph in your argumentation: "After the Wuhan outbreak, Indian researchers compared the S Protein sequence between 2019-nCoV (Wuhan coronavirus) and SARS. They discovered that 2019-nCoV (Wuhan coronavirus) had four new sequences inserted, all of which can be found in HIV sequences, through a search on GenBank. Shi Zhengli discredited those observations, although she never denied the existence of the four inserted sequences. However, scientists probing GenBank, found that there were only three viruses containing all sequences. The first is the HIV virus itself. The second is a bat coronavirus discovered by Shi, and the third is the Wuhan coronavirus."
Unfortunately, two things are the case: 1) You provided no footnotes so the reader can dig into the matter. 2) I don't have enough expertise in this area, but after all is said and done there appears to be biological experts who have argued both sides (But it appears as if the non-bioweapon people are now in the majority, but again science is not voting booth. I am not a big believer in the "scientific consensus" approach to science).
Next, it seems like the video you offered may be a thoughtful video based on the introductory minutes of the video. I appreciate you taking the time to suggest I watch the video. However, I have made a commitment to some people to do somethings and I really need to get back to these matters. But I will say that no matter how you slice it, the CCP acted in an evil way. They definitely suppressed knowledge of the virus spreading which costs a lot of lives. Communists are evil and communism is responsible for the deaths of over 100 million people in all likelihood.
Lastly, I have decided to do more productive and positive things than follow the news which I have done too much of as of late. Furthermore, I have a certain amount of fatigue when it comes to following the foolishness of liberals/leftists. Recently, I have been reading about how following the news too much can make you depressed/stressed/etc. and much of the news is sensational and does not lead to deeper understanding of issues. I have not gotten to the point of being depressed/stressed due to following the news too much, but if I were to continue, I think it would not be edifying to me. And after all is said and done, there are plenty of more productive things to do than follow the news. And there are plenty of avenues to better understand the world than news organizations. Of course anything can be taken to extremes. I told my friend if WWIII breaks out, be sure to let me know. Periodically, I will check the news to see how safe it is to lead a normal routine (no social distancing, etc. etc.). Conservative (talk) 22:07, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
None of your responses make any sense.
  1. You take no responsibility for spreading CCP propaganda.
  2. You're preoccupied with more important things than a global pandemic.
Think on these things. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 22:34, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Here's the 10 minute video cited in your National Review link above, I Found The Source of the Coronavirus, This 55 minute video, 1st documentary movie on the origin of CCP virus, Tracking Down the Origin of the Wuhan Coronavirus should probably be viewed first. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 21:47, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

A few points:

1. Joshua Phillips appears to be a serious investigative reporter although I did not have time to watch the whole video.

2. The video had high production value and already has 1,000,000+ YouTube views in about a week. Like the Obama birthplace issue or the Kennedy assassination controversies, this issue is not likely to go away.

3. It appears as if the key to resolving this issue is resolving the forensic medicine issues. I am not a forensic doctor, but with enough effort I believe I could come to a conclusion. It would take some time though and I don't have a lot of time. But if I determined the video had a lot of merit, I think if I put my mind to it, I could help the video get a wider distribution.

4. There are more important things than determining the origin this global pandemic if this is possible to do. For example, if the Apostle Paul were alive today, he probably would be promoting the gospel rather than promoting the idea that the CCP bioengineered COVID-19. At this point, the COVID-19 horse is already out of the barn and the CCP's public reputation is toast among reasonable people. Of course, if the CCP did bioengineer COVID-19 and a large percentage of public believed this, it would make it harder for them to repeat a similar act and could accelerate the regimes eventual demise (if the regime were to end at some time). At the same time, the effects of COVID-19 may cause the CCP to lose power regardless.Conservative (talk) 00:40, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Here's a shorter 28 minute version from Ezra Lavant and Rebel News: Exposing the Chinese communist origin of the Wuhan virus: Interview w/ Epoch Times' Joshua Philipp 1.2 million hits in 5 days isn't bad. These are the important points:
  1. The 'it came from eating bats' must be stopped, and reversed now. Democrats are seeking to blame Trump and want another impeachment over it. The factual evidence of the Wuhan Institute of Virology must come out now.
  2. CCP is actively destroying social media evidence right now. [126]
  3. We can't fight the 'it came from eating bats' narrative in the future when we ourselves are responsible for spreading CCP misinformation and don't bother to walk it back. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:04, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
A suggestion: Just tweak your pages to read something like "While eating bats is common in some parts of China, the CCP wanted us to believe.....". Throw it back on them, how deceptive the CCP is to blame the common people of China for the communists' crimes. Go ahead, call it an accidental release, but the coverup and deception is a serious international crime. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 01:26, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
If you feel very strongly about this issue, I would get The Epoch Times to get an author to write a book about this matter or alternatively write the book yourself with Epoch Times agreeing to help you market the book ahead of time. The book and the video could cross market each other. If you write a book, here is a good book to read: Sell More Books! Book Marketing and Publishing for Low Profile and Debut Authors: Rethinking Book Publicity after the Digital Revolutions. Alternatively, try to get Carl Gallups to write such a book as I think he is the type of person to want to write such a book.
As far as impeachment, I think it would help Trump's poll numbers if they tried to impeach him again.Conservative (talk) 03:14, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Bottomline: Trump-Russia was a fabrication. Coronavirus was manufactured in a lab. In both cases, the fake news media will never admit it pushed Russian and Chinese propaganda. You need to quit poo pooing your mistake and take this issue more seriously if you want credibility on this subject. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 10:51, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Until I believe there is sufficient evidence to hold a position, I reserve judgment and take the position that various explanations with varying degrees of evidence are being offered. I created two articles which had sections on the origin of the Wuhan coronavirus. I added a note about the bioweapon theory on those two pages along with a footnote to the documentary you suggested I watch.Conservative (talk) 15:32, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Good enough. And you should update it as the facts of the Wuhan Institute of Virology become more current. You'll know that when Tadros Adhanom gets fired and the CCP gets international sanctions. Meantime, the "eating bats theory" feeds into CNN and Adam Schiff's new impeachment scam. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:45, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
I will not be following the national/international news until November 1, 2020. I am taking a break from the news for the most part. I will just occasionally see how the local coronavirus situation is doing. I want to put an end to the social distancing in my life as soon as it is safe to do so.Conservative (talk) 15:50, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
You can and you will - once you get infected and build resistance, i.e. antibodies and immunity to covid 19 infection. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:01, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Zerohedges review of Josh Phillips documentary: "This Should Trouble Us Deeply" - Chilling Documentary Maps Out Likely Origin Of COVID-19. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:29, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Economic recovery agenda

We should start following up on the best ways to help the economy recover as the contagion starts to wind down. We can ease our economic activity back into motion, but we can't wait forever, either, can we? I'll start by brainstorming some stimulus ideas off the top of my head.

  • Abortion funding
  • Mail-in voting
  • Surveillance
  • Stimulus for illegals
  • Permanent housing guarantees.
  • Aid to Iran that could then be passed to China so they don't have to exchange ideological change for food

Let's start thinking along these lines and see what we come up with. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 07:25, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

"The Center for American Progress (CAP), which functions as an idea factory for the Democratic Party, compiled its wish list for the next round of recovery legislation during the Chinese coronavirus crisis."—Breitbart News (via Pamela Geller)

VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 09:19, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

CAP is a commie front run by John Podesta. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:20, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Look at neighborhood restaurants. 30% of Americans rely on restaurants, not grocery stores, for food. How many of the 16 million unemployed were restaurant workers? How many permanent business closures were neighborhood restaurants?
Here's the problem: With reopening, restaurants will still have to practice social distancing, meaning they will be allowed to reopen at half capacity. A restaurant that seats 100 people can only serve 50 at a time. This will affect employment rehiring, as well. OTOH, demand creates opportunity. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:18, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
As herd immunity develops restaurants will be allowed to operate at full capacity. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:25, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
There is no evidence [beyond anecdotal evidence] or controlled experiment proving social distancing works. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 13:49, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
"Quarantining the sick and vulnerable - yes.
Lockdowns - No.
Social Distancing - Meh."—Bill Mitchell VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 13:52, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Let me summarize the argument - arguments against social distancing are arguments for a faster development of herd immunity, despite the cost in lives; arguments for social distancing are arguments to "flatten the curve" to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system and for trying to protect the most vulnerable. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 14:18, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
It's a wash—the closest we ever came to overwhelming the system was in New York City—where everyone rode the subway and social distancing was a joke. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 15:35, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
And 62% of deaths were minority who ignored the public notices. It's the young, healthy, stupid and likely Sanders supporters who are the biggest threat to the health and safety of the most vulnerable.
Thank God Fredo the Elder clarified the issue; "institutional racism" means the stupidity of Blacks on the Democrat Plantation. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:45, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
A little something Bob Parks brought up recently regarding the willingness of leftists (i.e. Democrats) in public office to seize power (which they're not legally entitled to seize), impose control, violate the Bill of Rights and tank the economy under the ruse of "protecting" the public against the CCP virus: COVID-19 Shutdown Politicians Blow Off the Constitution's Bill of Rights Northwest (talk) 10:27, 17 April 2020 (EDT)

Vaccines

We HAVE flu vaccines. About half won't take them. Despite vaccines, in 2017-18, 61,000 Americans died from the flu.

As many died from the flu WITH vaccines as are projected to die from COVID-19 WITHOUT vaccines.

Can we just stop the COVID-19 is worse than flu BS?—Bill Mitchell, April 9.

Herd immunity (important)

Herd immunity is NOT a survival-of-the-fittest strategy. Sweden has been doing it wrong, because they didn't work hard enough to quarantine the elderly, so infections showed up in their nursing homes.

"The only way we are going to beat COVID-19 is by developing something called “herd immunity.” Herd immunity basically means that once a certain percentage of the population develops immunity to a virus, the rest of the population will also be protected.

"WHY LOCKDOWNS CAUSE MORE DEATH, NOT LESS:

"The more successful a strategy is at temporary suppression, the larger the later epidemic is predicted to be in the absence of vaccination, due to lesser build-up of herd immunity.

"HERD IMMUNITY:

High risk individuals should be isolated, but low risk individuals should behave normally in hopes milder versions of the virus circulate widely, creating herd immunity, which in turn protects the most vulnerable when the virus attempts to re-emerge seasonally."—Bill Mitchell, April 8, quoting thefederalist.com: "Why social distancing might actually result in more coronavirus deaths."

VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 15:10, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

Again, let me restate: there is an an 80% you will get the virus at some point. Resign yourself. Get educated. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:17, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
They've come up with a vaccine idea that uses the tail of the virus to render you immune. So technically, you don't get the virus. Ha-ha you may get snookered out of that projection! VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 15:27, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
America has a lot of fat cows in its human population herd. If a herd immunity approach is used to combat the coronavirus pandemic in the United States, a lot of very sickly, obese, coronavirus patients with weak immune systems and medical treatment complications could tip over many hospital systems.
"According to research done by the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, it is estimated that around 40% of Americans are considered obese, and 18% are considered severely obese as of 2019."[127]
America has a fat herd. It's hospitals could become overwhelmed in the absence of social distance or public adoption of effective current treatment protocols like Dr. Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment. Public acceptance of new concepts/products is slow and often follows a bell shaped curve with early adopters, mid-adopters and late adopters. Vaccines are an old and already accepted concept so a vaccine would be adopted fast. But a vaccine could be 10-18+ months away.
However, an influential leader like Donald Trump who accepts a treatment such as Dr. Zelenko's treatment can speed up adoption, but unfortunately the country is deeply divided politically so at least half of Americans may never even consider trying the non-vaccine options. This is due to Trump Derangement Syndrome where the media and other Trump haters take the opposite position of Trump reflexively. And the mainstream media still influences Democrats. The coronavirus could disproportionally affect Democrats due to socioeconomic and regional differences of coronavirus infections (poor racial minorities in urban areas) and due to the ignorance, obstinacy and gullibility of Democrats in terms of insisting on believing the mainstream media despite the emerging body of evidence shows that non-vaccine treatments work such as Dr. Vladimir Zelenko's successful coronavirus treatment.Conservative (talk) 16:12, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Herd immunity is coming one way or another. It's nature. You make yourself sound ridiculous arguing such inane points. We're facing a global pandemic. Please address salient points that helpful for survival, rather than such inane tangents. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 18:32, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

"And so when we look at coronavirus, we talked about that number around two to three, that's a reproductive number of how many people can be infected from one case. Now, with coronavirus, we're suspecting that we would need about 50% to 60% of the population to be immune to it to achieve that herd immunity so it couldn't spread like wildfire.

But again, if we say that 50 to 60% need to be infected at herd immunity. That's hard for me to believe right now in the United States. We have about 19,000 deaths and 500,000 cases, that's a little bit more than 3%. We're going to be talking about 150 million Americans infected. Or better yet, getting them vaccinated which would actually do this in a safe way, get that herd immunity."[128]Conservative (talk) 16:39, 12 April 2020 (EDT)

There are too many obese and elderly people in developed countries and too many people with obesity/dietary/lifestyle related diseases such as diabetes, hypertension, cancer, etc. for an early herd immunity approach to be viable option. It is going to have to be done through medical interventions.Conservative (talk) 16:43, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Hydroxychloroquine is good for treating mild to moderate symptoms the same way that over the counter medicines can treat flu or a common cold but what it does not and cannot do is stop the spread of the virus. Covid19 is far from the most deadly of diseases when it comes to death rate but it's infectious properties are off the scale, it spreads like a wild fire on dry grassland because we have no immunity to it whatsoever. The only way to stop the spread other than social distancing that is to develop a vaccine which promotes herd immunity so for now distancing is our best option. Therefore I agree that Sweden's approach is a bad one.--Chewy Suarez (talk) 17:13, 12 April 2020 (EDT)
Chewy raises an important point: there is a big difference between "symptom relief" and treating an underlying illness. America has an opioid pandemic because doctors are more concerned about "pain management" rather than cures for illness. RobSDe Plorabus Unum
Chewy has obviously not read the Vladimir Zelenko article. Hydroxychloroquine does more than just treat "symptoms". No one would be excited about it if that's all it did. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 06:25, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Here's my layman's take: Covid-19 clogs your lungs and makes it difficult to breath. Symptom relief that helps you breathe buys time to develop antibodies and immunity. Is this close to correct? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 10:56, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Also a layman here but I like to thing I am a well informed one. Hydroxychloroquine can stop an infected person becoming symptomatic but it cannot stop the infection from spreading which is the main concern with Covid19. Sadly, an asymptomatic person is just as likely to spread the virus as someone who is not. Hydroxychloroquine also does not have a unlimited supply and new supply cannot keep pace with Covid19 going unchecked. I do agree that Hydroxychloroquine should be made available but it is not the cure.--Chewy Suarez (talk) 11:37, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Very good. So this brings the question about the difference between a contagious and non-contagious carrier to the fore. First, is there such a thing as a "non-contagious carrier", or is it based on the notion of herd immunity, i.e. that everyone is a carrier and everyone is immune? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:39, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Clearing the deck

Let's make clear some underlying facts about viruses. There is no "beating back", "defeating", "eradicating", or "eliminating" Covid 19 or any other virus. Covid 19 is eternal as long as the human species is in the flesh. The only hope for survival is herd immunity - where the entire species, beginning at birth, is born with antibodies to fight the infection. Of course there always will be pockets of resistance in the upper Amazon, in the jungles of Africa and the Philippines, among Lapplanders and Eskimos and snake handlers of West Virginia who have limited contact with the rest of civilization who then are vulnerable to outbreaks and infection. But Covid 19 cannot be removed from a carrier's body. Our only hope is for everyone to become a carrier, just as virtually anyone reading these lines is a carrier of the polio and smallpox virus. The only thing that can be defeated or "beaten back" are widespread outbreaks, and this is done by developing herd immunity. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:57, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

It's possible that the Wuhan virus can't exist outside of animal hosts. I mean after, say, 10-120 hours outside? We will have the antibodies but not the virus. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 13:38, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Okay, fair enough. But an individual must become infected, either by community contact, transfusion, or vaccination to build antibodies. As to children, is the assumption correct that antibodies then are passed from parents to children? RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:37, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

COVID-19 prevention

1. CDC

2. BBC:

"Wellness products aside, there are some approaches you can take to help support your immune system...

There are, however, proven to work – and they don’t require shelling out your hard-earned cash: get enough sleep, exercise, eat a balanced diet, and try not to be stressed...

Several studies have linked low vitamin D levels to a higher risk of respiratory infections, and more severe symptoms when they develop. They’ve also been implicated in the development of autoimmune diseases such as multiple sclerosis.

In fact, many immune cells can actively recognise vitamin D, and it’s thought to play an important role in both the innate and acquired immune response – though exactly how remains a mystery.

But crucially – and unusually – vitamin D deficiencies are endemic in many countries, even wealthy ones. As of 2012, it was estimated that about a billion people worldwide weren’t getting enough. And with more and more people urged to stay indoors, it’s easy to see how even less sunlight exposure could lead to more deficiencies. (Read more about who needs to take vitamin D and why)."[129]

3. NPR:

"Sardines are naturally rich in vitamin D. Recent research suggests that vitamin D deficiency could be linked to cardiovascular disease and diabetes, but further study is needed."[130]

4. Grocery shop very early in the morning when grocery stores first open. Less airborne COVID-19.

5. Ozoning and using UV light on clothes/shoes after returning home from grocery shopping

Yahoo finance:

(Ozone generator used in closed room with person not being inside the room)

New York Magazine:

"While our experts say there haven’t been conclusive tests showing that UV light can kill the coronavirus, Berezow says “UV light kills everything: bacteria, fungi, viruses. It should kill coronavirus.” What we do know for sure is that it is effective against other viruses like the flu.)"[131]

Washington Post:

"And ultraviolet light has been used as a disinfectant for a century in hospitals and water supplies. It shatters the genetic material inside viruses, bacteria and other microbes. However, it doesn’t always work uniformly, Menachery said, and disinfecting UV light can’t be used with people around because it damages human cells."[132]

If you catch COVID-19, don't blame me. I told you how to prevent getting it!Conservative (talk) 07:01, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

P.S. Don't forgot to boil your coins when you get home!Conservative (talk) 07:27, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
This ordeal is reminiscent of a 1963 episode of The Outer Limits. It was remade in 1997. The last 7 minutes tells the whole story. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 16:32, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Japan prefecture re-opens too early

The Hokkaido prefecture has re-instated its Wuhan virus state of emergency order! (source: NPR via @neuralculture) VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 10:42, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Face facts. We will never eradicate the virus. We can only develop herd immunity and isolate pockets of infection. The human species will be dealing with this virus forever. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 11:02, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
That can be said of any virus. Smallpox is still out and raises it's ugly head every now again but because the majority are immune it does not proceed to epidemic level. There are even very rare cases of the Bubonic Plague. --Chewy Suarez (talk) 11:49, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
Chewy, quit inserting false information in Conservapedia. You haven't even contributed much. Smallpox is notorious for being contained! A bottle of it broke and infected a woman, and it was big news! VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 13:30, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
That's exactly what I just said, smallpox still raises it's ugly head. I did not think it was necessary to add that it was usually due to accidents or improper handling. I don't know why but it seems you are wanting to pick a fight for me for some reason.--Chewy Suarez (talk) 13:41, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
If it happened more than once, I would be very surprised. And if it is contained, it is not out. I also think you are showing the same behavior you are trying to attribute to me. But I won't explain to you further, because I don't want you to make use of my ideas wrongly as well. VargasMilan (talk) Monday, 13:53, 13 April 2020 (EDT)
The point I raise is that we all are disease carrying slugs. Herd immunity renders the contagion more or less harmless to anyone carrying the antibodies. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 15:40, 13 April 2020 (EDT)

Science

Nowhere do we see the misuse and abuse of science more than in the reporting of global Covid numbers. (A} China lied; (B} Numbers from countries such as Iran, Ecuador, and others are understated because of a lack disaster preparedness.

Today again, some Millennial idiot reporter asks Trump why the U.S. leads the world in Covid cases. I am literally ready to drop kick in the butt the first liberal punk who spouts that pro-science/anti-science garbage to me in a political context. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 20:32, 15 April 2020 (EDT)

Further reading: Six reasons why it’s a mistake to compare countries’ coronavirus figures. Comparing apples and pears.
Conclusion: There is nothing "scientific" about websites that collect and report daily global Covid-19 data. We should rethink highlighting external links to those sites. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 12:49, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

The slang term "covidiot"

Seeing how well-documented the slang term "covidiot" has become in recent times in the wake of the CCP virus pandemic, would it warrant inclusion in Essay:Best New Conservative Words or in Conservative Words Not Yet Recognized by the Dictionary? Northwest (talk) 07:49, 16 April 2020 (EDT)

Save the whales through social distancing

Grocery stores in the USA are now offering senior citizen customer hours only during some mornings in order to protect the lives of the elderly because they are most at risk of COVID-19 infections.

I hereby make this public announcement: Have fatty customer hours only for grocery stores too since obese individuals are also most at risk for COVID-19 infections.[133]

I have an exciting name for the campaign as well. Here it is: "Save the whales through social distancing! COVID-19 is a killer! Fatties lives matter!"

Given the wider girths of fatties, the 6 feet distancing rule may have to be amended for this unique tactic to fight COVID-19.

Please, if you have any connections to the White House, the CDC or any state governor, bring up my exciting proposal.Conservative (talk) 14:02, 17 April 2020 (EDT)

Flatten the curve and stomachs: Internment bootcamps and labor camps for obese people. Complete travel ban of obese foreigners to the USA

"The chronic condition with the strongest association with critical illness was obesity, with a substantially higher odds ratio than any cardiovascular or pulmonary disease," write lead author Christopher M. Petrilli of the NYU Grossman School and colleagues in a paper, "Factors associated with hospitalization and critical illness among 4,103 patients with Covid-19 disease in New York." City."[134]

Donald Trump needs to set up interment camps for obese people that double as weight loss bootcamps. The fatties can jog around the perimeter of the camps in shifts with each person staying 6 feet apart from the person he is jogging behind. And unlike the sitcom Hogan's Hero's there will be no overweight Sergeant Schultz type guards because leadership is by example.

In addition, Donald Trump needs to have a total and complete travel ban of overweight people to America until we understand what the hell is going on.Conservative (talk) 18:28, 17 April 2020 (EDT)

If this is meant to funny it is a joke in extreme bad taste. Still ,that is better than if this is a serious article.--Chewy Suarez (talk) 19:04, 17 April 2020 (EDT)
Facebook will issue a warning that this is coronavirus misinformation. RobSDe Plorabus Unum 19:30, 17 April 2020 (EDT)

India, Japan and Singapore are going to have far fewer mortality rates due to COVID-19 because they are slimmer nations. America, the West and China all have significant problems with obesity which is very troublesome in terms of health care resources related to COVID-19 and to the nation's health care resources in general.

Economies are being shut down. Freedom of movement is being limited. Despite these measures hospitals are filling up in some areas. If radical measures like this are being done, why isn't this the next step? It is obvious many fat people are being irresponsible. Is the lack of action to make fat people more accountable because the obese/overweight voting block is too large? Japan has a fat tax. America needs a fat tax. The left demonizes the top 1% of people in terms of their wealth. Why not tax the fat cats?

It's obvious that Japan and Singapore are more disciplined nations than the West and China.

If irresponsible overweight people are causing hardships on the rest of society, why shouldn't they face some consequences? It's time for tough, drill sergeant type love and turn fat people into mean, lean, COVID-19 fighting machines!Conservative (talk) 19:47, 17 April 2020 (EDT)

See [135] Do you really mean lock atheists in camps?--Chewy Suarez (talk) 20:08, 17 April 2020 (EDT)
Only the fat ones and there are a lot of them! To leave the camp, they have to be slim or have a medical doctor certify that weight loss is impossible due to a medical condition.Conservative (talk) 20:53, 17 April 2020 (EDT)
Conservative's advice, while strange and new, has already effected a change in myself. Since, although I'm not very heavy, I'm not "slim"— and feel motivated, by images of having to work out in a fat camp, to not ever give anyone reason to suggest that I go there! But especially so, when I want to protest the expansion of taxes to every single part of life, I won't be suspected of benefiting myself at the expense of others when I say, "Read my lips:
No new fat taxes!"
VargasMilan (talk) Saturday, 11:46, 18 April 2020 (EDT)
How about names for these camps. May I suggest New Belsen and New Dachau.--Chewy Suarez (talk) 11:57, 18 April 2020 (EDT)
Lol, no one gets killed in American internment camps, though I wish I could say the same about the Soviet ones. There's a link or two upward on this page that points to descriptions of them. You could easily find those links by doing a text search for the word "millions".
By the way, would you agree that the characteristic quality of modern progressivism is shifting the blame? VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 05:59, 19 April 2020 (EDT)

There is some data coming out of Stanford University that suggests that COVID-19 may have a mortality rate of the flu or slightly higher.[136]

If the Stanford University researcher is correct (which should become clearer in about 2-4 weeks) and we could suggest to the public to sequester elderly people and people with medical conditions like asthma, then it may come down to fat people overwhelming the medical system if they didn't use Vladimir Zelenko's effective early intervention (see: Vladimir Zelenko's coronavirus treatment).

On top of this, there have been no studies showing the mortality rate of shutting an economy down via lockdowns in terms of suicides, depression, alcoholism, domestic violence, etc. And these costs could be substantial as will the lost wealth due to idleness.

On top of this, if all the economic progress that lifted huge masses of people out of poverty is reversed due to a global depression sparked by lockdowns, the loss of human life could be very substantial.

The Bible says, "The hand of the diligent will rule, But the slack hand will be put to forced labor." (Proverbs 12:24). As far as the coronavirus crisis, considering all the social costs that fat people (whose excess weight is not due to a medical condition) have imposed on American society (and potentially the world) through being gluttons and coach potatoes, it is only fair that they work their blubber off via labor camps. Ideally, these should be hard labor camps that really cause them to burn a lot of calories fast!Conservative (talk) 05:43, 19 April 2020 (EDT)

Considering how politically infeasible my ideas are due to fat people (and perhaps fat lobbyists) lighting up the White House and Congressional switchboards if my ideas were attempted to be imposed, perhaps I should consider writing for the Babylon Bee. :)
The bottom line though is Americans need to develop more self-discipline. Start with caning in the schools and homes! The website The Transformed Wife, which teaches the importance of wifely submission and other really good things, mentions how much damage to society Dr. Benjamin Spock did when he recommended that corporal discipline not be used on children.[137] The permissiveness that ensued helped create a nation of many fat kids in the USA. In addition, Christians needs to practice more self-control - especially since it is one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit.Conservative (talk) 06:10, 19 April 2020 (EDT)
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory showed the effects of how different misbehaviors could result in bodily deformations that were suitable to the misbehaviors' respective kinds. I think Willy Wonka stemmed the tide of spoiled behavior caused by Dr. Spock, as it first showed the glamorous side of disobedience, and then in an amazing reversal of fortunes, it showed the child trapped by the humiliating natural consequences of the very poor deportment that they refused to relinquish! The Willy Wonka movie edited as a television program won our esteem and was repeatedly shown by ABC.
The pity of it was that the fat kid, Augustus Gloop, appeared first, so that those who didn't know the show was on that year and came in late, because they hadn't had a chance to look at other shows until during a commercial break while tuned in to a rival network, would either miss him entirely, or at least not know just how much chocolate Augustus had actually eaten before going too far and plunging into an ironic mishap. I do believe that this oversight caused the epidemic of obesity that we see today, as the young watchers were unable to pass down the lesson of Augustus to their children, when the watchers grew to be adults. VargasMilan (talk) Sunday, 09:44, 19 April 2020 (EDT)