Talk:Main Page/Archive index/203

Australia's Liberal regime moving further into liberal fascism and totalitarianism in the pandemic era...

DYSTOPIA DOWN UNDER: Australian Military Summoned to Relocate COVID-19 Positive and “Close Contacts” to Quarantine Camps

‘THEY’RE KILLING US! THEY’RE KILLING OUR PEOPLE!” – Aboriginal Elder SCREAMS in Facebook Rant After Australian Military Reportedly Holds Down Her People, Shoots Them with Vaccine

Australian Army called in to transfer indigenous COVID contacts to quarantine camps

This is What Tyranny Looks Like: Absolute Mayhem in Australia; Covid-Police Ambush Crowds and Shoot Protesters In the Back With ‘Non-lethals’ As They Run Away

An Inside Look at Australia’s ‘Mandatory Quarantine Camps:’ A Dystopian Reality in 2021 Where Travelers are Confined “Like Animals at the Zoo”

Australia Unveils Orwellian App Using Facial Recognition Software, Geolocation to Enforce Covid Quarantine Orders

Dystopia Down Under: Thousands of Australians With Unpaid Fines for Breaking Covid Rules Have Bank Accounts Raided and Property Seized As Tyrannical Government Chases Millions in Fees

Officers RAID Melbourne doctor

Victoria Police issued 260+ mask fines to CHILDREN as young as ten

Scenes in Australia Now Look Like Dystopian Horror Flick – And Lt. General Promises EVERYONE Will Have First Dose of Vax by Christmas

CRAZY: Australian Authorities Show Up to Woman’s Home and Harass Her Over Social Media Posts: “We Have Instructions Because You Have Been Posting Things”

Ron DeSantis on Australia: “That’s Not a Free Country… Is Australia Freer than Communist China Right Now? I Don’t Know”

Dan Andrews threatens to ‘lock out’ the unvaccinated well into 2022

(Dan Andrews') new Bill allows Police to JAIL mask breachers

WATCH: Victoria Police try to BAN media from filming their violent conduct

On that basis, I think it'd be safe to say that the Liberal Party of Australia (now acting in concert with the leftist Australian Labor Party and under coercion from the CCP) is officially no longer "conservative" as they once claimed to be, but have gone full-on liberal and totalitarian as the CCP flu pandemic has brought out the worst in its members, just as it has with other heads of state and public officials who either are already known to be liberal or who once claimed to be "conservative" to get elected to office but have since let out their inner liberals. That they have to resort to illegally using the military and state police forces as their personal Gestapos to violently enforce illegal and unconstitutional CCP flu diktats and medical apartheid in cowardly fashion against unarmed protesters and dissidents only reinforces that view. Northwest (talk) 19:04, November 24, 2021 (EST)

Thousands of Australians gather together in a dense crowd to protest Covid-19 vaccines during a pandemic.[1]

What's next? A large dense crowd in front of a building to protest a sniper in the building? Conservative (talk) 03:30, November 25, 2021 (EST)

September 21, 2021, The Melbourne Tinderbox and Why Americans Should Pay Attention, Sundance:

"An inflection point has been reached in Australia with the government COVID-19 lockdowns, forced vaccinations and now, vaccine passports. What is happening today in the state of Victoria, specifically the Melbourne metropolitan area, is an outcome of more than a year of heavy-handed government rules and regulations deaf to the voices of the average man, woman or family. There is a middle class & blue-collar backlash taking place, and Americans would be wise to pay attention....[...]
The common man and woman have no voice, and they are being told by government, media and now union leadership to just “shut up and take the jab.” Many Americans can relate to this frustrating dynamic....[...]
While the United States has not yet arrived at the same level of outrage, in part driven by a distinctly different constitution that outlines the inherent rights of Americans, it is very clear that we too will soon arrive at this point now visible on the streets in Melbourne.
Do not be naive to the fact that U.S. and Canadian government officials; those in direct ideological alignment with the leftist perspectives of government in Australia; are not paying close attention to what is happening there in preparation for when both the U.S. and Canada move to block the unvaccinated from participating in society.
The vaccination passport methods, processes and procedures being tested right now in Australia are soon to arrive in the United States. Electronic check-ins and QR codes deployed to track the movements of vaxxed and unvaxxed are being tested right now in almost all states in Australia. We The People in America are only a few weeks or months away from having to make the same decisions that middle-class Victorian workers are faced with right now. This is why you should pay attention to what is happening there...."

[Comment: Ahemm, this was reported two months ago, when you were arguing against the anti-vaccine mandate movement, which if your argument was successful, could only be enforced by vaccine passports and medical segregation (i.e. fascism). That's why your bringing it to our attention now won't carry much weight. Let's stick to what we know here.]

RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 23:48, November 25, 2021 (EST)

IOWs, what the reader takes away from your postings over the past two months is not information on Australia or vaccine mandates, but rather the impression the writer is either confused or has flipped in his/her perspective, and it's hard to discern in what direction the author has flipped. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 19:28, November 26, 2021 (EST)

My apologies. I acted in haste. I didn't realize all the spam postings were done by User:Northwest. I reacted more to User:Conservative's snarky comment. But apparently User:Conservative supports the totalitarian fascist position on vaccine mandates, judging from his snark. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 03:12, December 5, 2021 (EST)

More covid variants, more money for vaccine makers

Do the drug companies release covid variants to generate vaccine revenue? Well, why wouldn't they? See "SHOCKING: BIG PHARMA Received Emergency Use Approval a Couple of Weeks Ago for COVID Variant Discovered a Couple Days Ago?." If Big Pharma was engineering coronavirus in Wuhan, that's probably not only lab where they are doing it. Covid put the Dems over the top in 2020. Now their greed is causing the party to unravel. PeterKa (talk) 12:29, November 27, 2021 (EST)

It sounds cynical and simplistic but, Bingo. Arrest Fauci. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 12:42, November 27, 2021 (EST)

Update: W.H.O. skips Greek letter ‘Xi’ in naming new Variant. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 18:18, November 27, 2021 (EST)

Bill Gates had a role in every stage of generating covid hysteria. Since the onset of the epidemic, he has donated $54 million to China, including $127,650 to Wuhan University. That's not suspicious, is it?[2] PeterKa (talk) 08:53, November 28, 2021 (EST)

Maybe we can get Robert Mueller to do a two year ~~cover up~~ investigation to establish the facts and get to the bottom of it. Then, judging from the Rittenhouse case, it would only take 14 months for the media and public to look at the evidence and decide for themselves. But the only way for that to happen would be for the lying and corrupt GOP to stuff the ballot box with 80 million votes, of which only 38% would admit to their error less than a year later. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 11:42, November 28, 2021 (EST)

"More Covid-19 variants, more money for vaccine makers" is exactly how things would be expected to work in capitalism. The more problems there are in the world, the more products capitalists create. Under the rival economic systems, less new products come out because they are less responsive to consumers. The store shelves in the Soviet Union were not brimming with various types of products. Conservative (talk) 12:06, November 28, 2021 (EST)

Huh? Oh, I get it. You commit fraud so you can fleece people for more money. Ok, so that is how capitalism works. Thanks for clarifying that and clearing things up. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 12:22, November 28, 2021 (EST)

Was omicron created by splicing snippets of DNA from a common cold virus into covid DNA? See here. PeterKa (talk) 21:18, December 4, 2021 (EST)

Jeffrey Epstein and foreign intelligence

With the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell ongoing, I think now would be a good time to discuss the potential links between Jeffrey Epstein and foreign intelligence.

Much of the speculation surrounding those potential links are rooted in similar allegations concerning Maxwell's late father, Robert. While it has never been proven that the elder Maxwell was a spy, he is known to have had ties with not one, not two, but three foreign intelligence agencies: the KGB (USSR), the MI6 (UK), and the Mossad (Israel).[3]

With that in mind, could Epstein have also been a spy? And if so, for whom? And were any foreign intelligence agencies involved in Epstein's criminal enterprises? Share your thoughts below.--Geopolitician (talk) 18:15, December 1, 2021 (EST)

The AP has a lengthy story on Ghislaine's trial every day. New York Post is also covering it, although not as thoroughly as AP. The rest of the press is ignoring it. Are people tired of hearing about Epstein? Does the trial makes the Dems look bad? Maybe Hillary wants to replace Harris and needs this story out of the way. PeterKa (talk) 23:32, December 1, 2021 (EST)

I don't know about you, but if Epstein's criminal enterprise was indeed an operation of a foreign intelligence agency, then I would consider that to be bordering on an act of war against the US by the country responsible. And that country should thus be severely punished.--Geopolitician (talk) 00:19, December 2, 2021 (EST)

I have been researching Robert Maxwell for many many years. His connections to the NKVD and later KGB go back to WWII. It's a fascinating subject and personality. Robert Maxwell cannot be approached from merely a Cold War perspective. Ghislaine & Epstein simply carried on the family business which Robert founded in dealing with French collaborators and the Gestapo. He raised compromise and blackmail to a fine art, which targets willingly stepped into, and evidently was for hire to the KGB, Mossad, and MI5. He profited immensely. It would be too difficult and risky for an intelligence organization to duplicate his operation as a standing business enterprize, so he evidently offered his services as a freelancer. Looking for loyalties to a country or ideology is a false trail. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 15:34, December 2, 2021 (EST)

Robert Maxwell ranks up there with Kim Philby, Richard Sorge, Alger Hiss, and other legendary spy personalities of the 20th century. Epstein carried on the family business for mere greed and pleasure, and not really guided by a sense of duty to defeat nazis in the Vichy regime. For Ghislaine, it was the only life she ever knew. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 15:40, December 2, 2021 (EST)

And Epstein certainly enjoyed the protection of Robert Mueller. [4] Whether it was by blackmail or being employed by U.S. intelligence only FOIA requests and declassification will tell. And that certainly will take time, if not decades. Probably not in anybody alive today's lifetime. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 06:33, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Alternatively, Alan Dershowitz could provide some answer. But he'll take it to the grave with him. When he's gone, people close to Dershowitz could provide some unverified speculatory details. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 06:37, December 5, 2021 (EST)

For good coverage on the Maxwell trial, subscribe to this guy. He's a federal trial lawyer and is sitting in on the trial. Sometimes he provides updates during pee breaks, and then a full report at the end of the day. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 06:47, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Update: Ghislane Maxwell trial. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 17:28, December 6, 2021 (EST)

Monty Python - prophets of our time?

According to PJ Media, the members of Monty Python's Flying Circus, in the movie Life of Brian, predicted and made fun of "wokeness" about 40 years before "wokeness" actually became a thing in the real world (specifically via this segment from the movie). Thoughts? Northwest (talk) 21:03, December 1, 2021 (EST)

It's a pity the Maoists in the White House don't follow Mao on this issue, who banned cross dressing. Before Mao, Chinese drama (like Shakespeare) was all about men impersonating women (Peking opera) and women impersonating men (Yue or Shanghai opera). PeterKa (talk) 23:17, December 1, 2021 (EST)

Le Pen vs. Zemmour

With Eric Zemmour officially announcing his candidacy for President of France on Tuesday, the French hard right is now splitting into two.[5]

Zemmour is very popular among the French right, and some recent polls have shown him beating Le Pen in the first round. [6]

Thoughts?--Geopolitician (talk) 00:13, December 2, 2021 (EST)

What else should be noted is that Marine Le Pen's estranged father has endorsed Zemmour.[7]--Geopolitician (talk) 00:14, December 2, 2021 (EST)

Maybe LePen's legacy will be moving Macron/France to the right, but she will never be elected President of France. Conservative (talk) 02:33, December 2, 2021 (EST)

From what I've heard (as an American who's not super knowledgeable about French politics), Zemmour seems more popular than Le Pen, at least amongst those online, and he seems to be the stronger candidate. Vince Did 7-14 (talk) 17:03, December 2, 2021 (EST)

On the recent vandalbot attacks...

Because of the recent vandalbot attacks (all specifically targeting templates) on the site (all involving these recently created accounts - [8] [9] [10] [11] [12]), I think that another blockable offence should be added to the list thereof - Vandalbot.

Also, based on the pattern of the vandalism (converting all of the targeted templates to pictures of a duck to intentionally make those templates make the pages they are used on unreadable and inaccessible) and the history of same (which had happened months ago), this is the work of the same vandalbot-creating vandal who previously targeted Conservapedia. On that basis, all of that vandal's vandalbots linked above need to be reset to infinite blocks to prevent them from doing more damage when the blocks they are on now run out. Northwest (talk) 21:25, December 2, 2021 (EST)

Both matters are still under investigation. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 20:26, December 20, 2021 (EST)

Africa, land of anti-vaxxers

To the liberal media, there's nothing worse than being an antivaxxer. Do they realize that African countries are sending back vaccines because no one there will take them? See "The Omicron Factor the Media Won’t Tell You About." Update It was Pfizer that reported omnicron to WHO, not South Africa. The omnicron hysteria is starting to sound suspiciously like Big Pharma is punishing Africa's antivaxxers. PeterKa (talk) 16:22, December 4, 2021 (EST)

Africa has avoided the coronavirus bio attack thus far. For one thing, the use of Chloroquine to fight malaria has been widespread for 100 years. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 00:39, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Africa has a young population with a lot of lean people. The same applies to the Philippines. Both of these nations have not had a serious problem with coronavirus.

It is the aging Western countries with a lot of sedentary, obese/overweight people that have bigger problems with coronavirus. China has a big obesity problem too (see: China and obesity).

Studies of overweight/obesity on covid-19 hospital and ICU admissions suggest a 2- to 5-fold increased risk for the obese. That makes a normal BMI about a 65-85% effective “vaccine” against severe infection - one that keeps people out of the hospital from a variety of diseases, including the flu, and probably the next pandemic virus.[13]

"People in the least-active group, who almost never exercised, wound up hospitalized because of Covid at twice the rate of people in the most-active group, and were subsequently about two-and-a-half times more likely to die. Even compared to people in the somewhat-active group, they were hospitalized about 20 percent more often and were about 30 percent more likely to die."[14]

Exercise may protect against a deadly coronavirus complication. One expert thinks it should be recommended just like social distancing.

A Preventive Role of Exercise Across the Coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) Pandemic Conservative (talk) 01:02, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Preventative measures and treatment is not the issue, at all. The issue is forced vaccinations. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 03:22, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Says who? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Conservative (talk) 04:22, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Says the OP. The subject is vaccination. If you want to discuss Ivermectin or preventative measures, create a different thread. We are discussing the politics of Big Pharma, not common practical health and safety measures. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 06:21, December 5, 2021 (EST)

The choice of vaccination is an exercise in risk analysis that weighs the cost/benefit ratio. A poor country with lots of young, slim/fit people has far less incentive to get its people vaccinated and the people will have less incentive too. In addition, poor people are often less educated as far as medical science. Furthermore, there is the bandwagon effect issue (people not wanting to be early adopters). Poor countries have less access to vaccines so there is less people jumping on the vaccine bandwagon due to less availability of the vaccines.

On the other hand, a poor country is less able to put a poor person in an ICU so that is an argument for the coronavirus vaccine. Conservative (talk) 23:44, December 5, 2021 (EST)

So a poor country with a dictator can mandate a vaccine in violation of the Nuremberg Code. Thanks for clarifying your position. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 10:36, December 7, 2021 (EST)

What's the Patriot Front?

They were once Vanguard America, which organized the Unite the Right protests in 2017 in Charlottesville. Now they are the "Patriot Front." Their website is suspiciously well done technically. It reads like the work of someone manipulating phrases without any real beliefs, a marketing firm or AI agitprop software: "Democracy wears the feathers of a dove, yet is delivered at the tip of a bayonet." Huh? I guess that "delivery" part was always going to be a problem.

The ADL says that the Patriot Front is responsible for "80% of White Supremacist Propaganda Nationwide in 2020." The leader is given as Thomas Rousseau, who was 18 years old at the time of Charlottesville. Does that sound like a fake name? Is he the brother of Benjamin Lafayette?

Well, you can see where this is going. The group is obviously an FBI front, right? No doubt it was cooked up by the Obamas in the Oval Office to make trouble for their successor. See "Videos: “Patriot Front” FEDS Dressed As A “Radical White Supremacy” Group March On Washington DC – Police Helps Them To Get Into Their U-Hauls And Illegally Drive Away." PeterKa (talk) 09:34, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Are there really enough snitches to create a sham political movement? Let's do the math. There are about 10,000 FBI agents. Each agent is required to have at least four informants. The bureau recommends ten informants per agent. An FBI informant is paid $400 a week.[15] PeterKa (talk) 10:21, December 5, 2021 (EST)

$400 a week? That's barely above the amount I make at Goodwill (not even including FICA deductions). How can anyone agree to such a meager sum to act as an informant? If anything, I'd refuse that offer unless it was $500 or $600. Pokeria1 (talk) 10:36, December 5, 2021 (EST)

My source is from 2016. Perhaps there has been inflation. I don't think snitch is usually a full time job, so not really comparable to working retail. PeterKa (talk) 10:47, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Here is a news segment about a Patriot Front demo in Philadelphia. Use of moving vans, whole face-covering masks, and lots of flags seem to be the group's signature moves. There's "a lot of vetting" to join, according to the segment. It's too bad they stopped using tiki torches. Now they can hang Jussie Smollett. PeterKa (talk) 20:17, December 5, 2021 (EST)

"Vanguard America" is immediately suspicious, especially coming from that timeframe. That was about the same time I was finalizing article on Vanguardism. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 20:28, December 5, 2021 (EST)

The cat is out of the bag now on Vanguardism, but a name like "Vanguard America" is intended to attract dedicated schooled and trained Marxists. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 20:30, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Quick history: Marxist movements usually begin with a mass movement, for example Black Lives Matter in our own day or Students for a Democratic Society in the 1960s with over 1 million members. From within these "peaceful protest" movements a revolutionary cadre is selected into a genuine "vanguard" party willing to use violence or whatever means (who become "trained Marxists" such as the Weather Underground or Black Panthers). In the 1930s it was "Popular Front liberalism", itself a localized spinoff of the Comintern. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 20:44, December 5, 2021 (EST)

People with a variety of views use the word "vanguard." I don't think you can draw any conclusions from it. There is a video game "Call of Duty: Vanguard."

Here is the PF marching in stormtrooper leggings at the Lincoln Memorial. In 2024, I want to see these people taken out by the Florida State Guard that DeSantis just requested the authority to create. PeterKa (talk) 21:25, December 5, 2021 (EST)

It's just another psyop. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 12:54, December 6, 2021 (EST)

Abortion and the midterms

What effect will overturning Roe have on the midterms? A few months ago, the Dems thought this issue was their ticket. Democrat Terry McAuliffe pushed it hard in the Virginia governor's race. It certainly didn't help him and may even have convinced some pro-lifers to turn out for Youngkin. See "Why the threat to Roe may not save Democrats in 2022." 46 percent of likely U.S. voters support the Texas "heartbeat" law while 43 percent oppose.[16] PeterKa (talk) 15:31, December 5, 2021 (EST)

There is a common narrative among MSM outlets that "polls show a large majority of Americans support Roe v. Wade." Many people are misled into believing Roe only permits abortion within the first trimester of abortion when it allows for killing an unborn child at any point in pregnancy. Most Americans oppose late-term abortion, and if everyone knew that Roe allows for unrestricted abortion, the left-wing propaganda would evaporate. [17] —LT ^{(The Old Right was right!)} Sunday, 15:57, December 5, 2021 (EST)

My promoting of some of Eric Kaufmann's projections was prescient.

"The Birkbeck College, University of London professor Eric Kaufmann wrote in his 2010 book Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth? concerning America: "High evangelical fertility rates more than compensated for losses to liberal Protestant sects during the twentieth century. In recent decades, white secularism has surged, but Latino and Asian religious immigration has taken up the slack, keeping secularism at bay. Across denominations, the fertility advantage of religious fundamentalists of all colours is significant and growing. After 2020, their demographic weight will begin to tip the balance in the culture wars towards the conservative side, ramping up pressure on hot-button issues such as abortion. By the end of the century, three quarters of America may be pro-life. Their activism will leap over the borders of the 'Redeemer Nation' to evangelize the world. Already, the rise of the World Congress of Families has launched a global religious right, its arms stretching across the bloody lines of the War on Terror to embrace the entire Abrahamic family."[18] Conservative (talk) 20:25, December 5, 2021 (EST)

Webster bends definitions for the Dems

According the Merriam-Webster an anti-vaxxer is "a person who opposes the use of vaccines or regulations mandating vaccination." They have used this definition since 2018, so it doesn't seem to have been inspired by Biden's regulations. See here. But it still seems pretty partisan since this definition suggests that you can actually be vaccinated and still be an anti-vaxxer.

This brings to mind an incident in 2020 when Merriam-Webster labeled the phrase "sexual preference" as "offensive" just to make trouble for Amy Comey Barrett.[19] You're apparently supposed to say "orientation" instead of "preference." I mean, who knew? PeterKa (talk) 23:25, December 6, 2021 (EST)

They need sensitivity training. "Sexual preference" can exhibit a microaggression. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 10:33, December 7, 2021 (EST)

I wonder what the difference is. Orientation sounds like a stronger word than preference. For some, it's just a preference. For others, a full-blown orientation. For still others, a way of life. ( ͡❛ ͜ʖ ͡❛) PeterKa (talk) 13:43, December 8, 2021 (EST)

Take advantage of the coronavirus vaccines developed by Donald Trump's Operation warpspeed. Pro-vaccine counties in USA have over 5 times less death rate from Covid-19

"Since May 2021, people living in counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump during the last presidential election have been nearly three times as likely to die from COVID-19 as those who live in areas that went for now-President Biden. That's according to a new analysis by NPR that examines how political polarization and misinformation are driving a significant share of the deaths in the pandemic.

NPR looked at deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which vaccinations widely became available. People living in counties that went 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.78 times the death rates of those that went for Biden. Counties with an even higher share of the vote for Trump saw higher COVID-19 mortality rates.

In October, the reddest tenth of the country saw death rates that were six times higher than the bluest tenth, according to Charles Gaba, an independent health care analyst who's been tracking partisanship trends during the pandemic and helped to review NPR's methodology. Those numbers have dropped slightly in recent weeks, Gaba says: "It's back down to around 5.5 times higher."[20]

Hopefully, Trump will be elected in 2024. Many Republicans do not trust Joe Biden and his admonitions to get vaccinated. If Trump is elected in 2024 and encourages people to get vaccinated, maybe they will.

In the meantime, take advantage of the vaccines developed by Donald Trump's Operation Warpspeed. You can't vote Republican if you are dead. Conservative (talk) 08:46, December 7, 2021 (EST)

Still pitching fascism, huh? RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 10:37, December 7, 2021 (EST)

I think we can safely say at this point (A) Donald Trump was misled by Fauci about the coronavirus; (2) Donald Trump was misled by Fauci about vaccines.

Stop beating a dead horse when it's dead. That dog ain't gonna hunt. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 10:40, December 7, 2021 (EST)

Fascism? Adolf Hitler was against vaccine mandates. Conservative (talk)

He also employed forced medical experiments, which is what the coronavirus vaccine is. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 11:01, December 7, 2021 (EST)

NPR? Seriously? Using data that lists deaths from common influenza as covid deaths? RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 13:05, December 7, 2021 (EST)

"Democrats Realize They've Got No Out for a 2022 U.S. Midterm Elections slaughter"

This psychic premonition is not true. Democrats have the J6 Committee and FBI abuse, which they already are using. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 10:48, December 7, 2021 (EST)

They also have election fraud which remains unreformed on a widespread scale. There is also the war on RINOs, which is not how to go about building a 51% majority. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 10:51, December 7, 2021 (EST)

Time will tell if I am right. These factors are not in the Democrats favor: the economy is bad due to inflation, Joe Biden is unpopular, the general ballot for Congressional races favors Republicans, Covid will probably spike in the winter and Biden is not doing a good job fighting the virus, the border is out of control, crime is up, historical pattern is the party with a President in office loses Congressional seats. Conservative (talk) 11:01, December 7, 2021 (EST)

So why do you post non-news items as news? You think readers are brainwashed and can't detect cheerleading and propaganda from facts? RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 11:03, December 7, 2021 (EST)

"Time will tell", the risk you take on this - when you are wrong, and do not accept your error, you lose credibility and readers walk away from you. This is precisely what happened with your "coronavirus comes from eating bats" headlines. You've never owned up to your error. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!}

That was in January 2020. You have been misleading readers now for nearly 2 solid years. That label sticks. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 11:08, December 7, 2021 (EST)

When the Pot of Gold does not appear at the end of the rainbow in November 2022, readers (rightly) blame you for misleading them. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 11:14, December 7, 2021 (EST)

I gave more than one possibility for the coronavirus pandemic origin. Like multiple possibilities. Conservative (talk) 12:13, December 8, 2021 (EST)

Polishing the crystal ball for the midterms

The Wall Street Journal has done a comprehensive survey of political attitudes going into the midterm: "Latest Poll Numbers Spell Doom for Democrats — and Bust Some Narratives Along the Way." If you have ever wanted to run for office, 2022 is the year to do it. Biden's approval number is 41-57=-16. The top issues on voters' minds include immigration (13%), economic growth (11%), inflation (10%), reducing government spending (5%), and opposing leftwing ideology (4%). Thus 43% of voters focus on these issues, which all cut in favor of Republicans. Meanwhile, the Dems have climate change (7%), covid (5%), voter suppression (5%), race (3%), and opposing rightwing ideology (2%). Abortion is the top priority of 1% of voters. Although Biden's climate pseudo-science has already led to a jump in gas prices, climate change is actually the Dems' single most popular issue.

That Republicans will gain control of the U.S. House of Representative doesn't seem to be in question anymore. The generic ballot shows Republicans doing nine points better than they did in 2020 (+2.7 compared to -6.8). In the actual 2020 election result, Republicans lost the House by three points (50.8% to 47.7%).[21] The redistricting maps haven't been finalized yet, so there is no basis to make a projection.

What would it take to gain control of the Senate? There are six tossup races and Republicans would have to win at least four of these to get a majority.[22] PeterKa (talk) 15:33, December 8, 2021 (EST)

In this year's elections, there was an 11-point partisan shift in Virginia and a 13-point shift in New Jersey. I interpret this as a Republican turnout advantage on top of the nine point preference shift I mentioned above. PeterKa (talk) 19:16, December 8, 2021 (EST)

Election integrity, and election rigging is nowhere on the map, even in the Wall Street Journal poll. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 05:13, December 9, 2021 (EST)

Joe & Kamala

What the world saw. What really happened. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 21:17, December 9, 2021 (EST)

LOL😎 PeterKa (talk) 14:10, December 10, 2021 (EST

Let's take it from the experts - the fact Kamala staffers are jumping ship means these experts see Kamala Harris has no future. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 23:49, December 11, 2021 (EST)

Tricky Dick had the Justice Department investigate Agnew. So there is a precedent for getting rid of a vice president if the president really wants to do it. It looks like the 2024 Democratic nomination will be Buttigieg versus AOC. Will the "party of science" go with AOC, our latter-day Joan of Arc full of child-like ignorance and innocence? PeterKa (talk) 10:27, December 12, 2021 (EST)

I dunno; I think Marianne Williamson has a better shot than AOC. She lasted longer than Kamala Harris in the 2020 primaries. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 13:42, December 12, 2021 (EST)

Trump eviscerates Netanyahu in interview

Well, well, well. Looks like Trump has finally caught on that Netanyahu was not the ally he claimed to be. Better late than never. Too bad he still thinks the Abraham Accords were a good thing, though.--Geopolitician (talk) 13:07, December 10, 2021 (EST)

Now Trump's claiming that Abbas wanted peace more than Netanyahu did.[23]--Geopolitician (talk) 17:15, December 11, 2021 (EST)

So Trump dragged Netanyahu to the Peace table and Natanyahu was over-anxious when Biden the Warmonger won. I'm sorry, I don't see what's so surprising here? RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 19:59, December 11, 2021 (EST)

What's so surprising is that Trump would all but admit Netanyahu is a warmonger. Something he should've done while in office.--Geopolitician (talk) 21:07, December 11, 2021 (EST)

I should also add that the Times of Israel article I cited says that Trump personally believes his Israel-Palestine policy would've been more successful had Benny Gantz ousted Netanyahu following the 2019-20 elections. I'm not so sure if I'd agree with that, but whatever.--Geopolitician (talk) 21:07, December 11, 2021 (EST)

I should also add that I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out Netanyahu really did want Biden to win. Sure, Trump did a lot for Israel. But he also had a tendency to deviate from the GOP establishment when it came to war with Iran, even if he was still tougher on Iran than he should've been. And that may well have been too much for Netanyahu to accept.--Geopolitician (talk) 21:07, December 11, 2021 (EST)

Oh, so Trump was supposed to carry on the Obama policy and not seek the Abraham Accords. That's interesting. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 22:18, December 11, 2021 (EST)

The Abraham Accords were a mistake, at least in part. Trump should not promoted an alliance between Israel and the Gulf States, who are our enemies. The only thing that will do in the end is move Israel closer to the Wahhabist Islam camp, and by extension the pro-China camp.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:23, December 11, 2021 (EST)

Oh no, here we go again. Shia Iran is our friend. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 22:26, December 11, 2021 (EST)

So, we should be selling nuclear, drone, and missile technology to Iran to counter the evil Gulf Wahhabi states, right? RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 22:28, December 11, 2021 (EST)

Yes, we should. Because objectively, Iran is the lesser evil. Iran wasn't behind 9/11, Iran isn't a natural ally of al-Qaeda, ISIS, or the Taliban, and Iran isn't co-parenting Pakistan (with China being the other co-parent).--Geopolitician (talk) 17:13, December 12, 2021 (EST)

Speaking of which, it's precisely because of the "co-parenting Pakistan" issue that the Gulf States are on their way to becoming allies of China. So even from a "China is our #1 enemy" perspective, it would be in our national interests to court Iran.--Geopolitician (talk) 17:13, December 12, 2021 (EST)

What you're proposing is the exact same mistake that got the USSR to the levels it did post-WWII and also the whole reason why China's even that big of a threat. No, if we're going to fight off China, we need to fight off both China AND Iran. Wipe out two enemies with one stone, in other words. I will grant you, however, that Iran is the lesser of the evils between itself and China (Iran at least HAS a religion, China doesn't due to its communist views). But as far as itself and the other Muslim countries, they're of the same level of evil. Pokeria1 (talk) 21:52, December 12, 2021 (EST)

Geopolitician, Israel is an ally, not an enemy. Unfortunately Trump is erroneous in this instance to bash Netanyahu. —LT ^{(The Old Right was right!)} Sunday, 22:56, December 11, 2021 (EST)

Israel is neither an ally nor an enemy. But it has been getting further and further into bed with our enemies as of late.--Geopolitician (talk) 17:13, December 12, 2021 (EST)

I won't comment on whether or not Israel is our ally, but I will comment that Netanyahu did side with Biden and declared him the winner back in 2020 even when there was pretty blatant evidence to voter fraud, so I wouldn't necessarily say Trump was unjustified or mistaken to react as he did to Netanyahu. Pokeria1 (talk) 21:52, December 12, 2021 (EST)

Trump dragged Natanyahu to the peace table kicking screaming to break the deadlock. Netanyahu is in bed with those neocon warmongers Obama & Hillary, but was stabbed in the back when Obama elevated the Muslim Brotherhood to be his trusted friends and allies. Perhaps Netanyahu thinks Biden will return to the policy of the racist Islamophobes. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 23:29, December 11, 2021 (EST)

Iran and the Muslim Brotherhood are rivals who occasionally collaborate. And Netanyahu has always deemed Iran to be the greater threat. That's been obvious from the get go, given that he was always softer on Erdogan and Morsi than on Iran, and he always did a ceasefire with Hamas (a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood) instead of taking them out when he had the chance. So that should be a sufficient explanation as to why he would forgive the Democrats for supporting the Muslim Brotherhood. But that aside, Netanyahu isn't PM any more. Bennett is. And hopefully he sees things differently.--Geopolitician (talk) 17:13, December 12, 2021 (EST)

Look at the comments on this Breitbart article covering this situation. Many are saying these recent statements by Trump disqualifies him for 2024, and that their new guy is now Ron DeSantis.[24] If DeSantis is running in 2024, he'd better not embrace this crowd. It won't end well for him even if Trump sits out.--Geopolitician (talk) 11:55, December 14, 2021 (EST)

Chris Wallace leaves Fox

I think most Fox viewers have wanted Chris Wallace gone since his infamous performance as a presidential debate moderator in 2020. It was a "Trump-Wallace debate" that a senile Biden sat out. He's one of the most famous names in news, but it seems that no one wants him. After his contract with Fox expires, he will be making Youtube videos with "CNN+". PeterKa (talk) 08:38, December 13, 2021 (EST)

Perfect, off to CNN where he belongs. Who knows, maybe there'll be a Fox News cleansing soon, and we can replace all the Lahrens, Hannitys, and other neocon varieties with Tuckers, to say nothing of the Murdochs on top. Fingers crossed! Vince Did 7-14 (talk) 11:21, December 13, 2021 (EST)

IMO, Wallace's defection to the openly subversive CNN network is directly related to the Rittenhouse verdict. [25] Truth and justice had no impact on his views whatsoever. Fake Yapper might move to primetime and Wallace take over the Sunday show, and the other open time slot (after Don Lemon loses his homosexual assault case) will probably go to a privileged white woman since CNN is the lone misogynist network without a woman in primetime. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 13:07, December 14, 2021 (EST)

Wallace won't be on the cable version of CNN, but rather the streaming service. CNN's regular viewers won't tolerate deviation from the party line. That's a big step down from Fox. He's leaving now because his contract is up. PeterKa (talk) 17:23, December 14, 2021 (EST)

That's what they say now, but when Lemon gets the boot, they'll have a real crisis in primetime with two open slots. And Wallace sure left rather abruptly ("this is my last show.") RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 17:32, December 14, 2021 (EST)

Chilean 2021 Presidential Election

On 19th of December 2021 an important election is happening in Chile in which the right-wing candidate José Antonio Kast is going to dispute the presidency with Gabriel Boric (left-wing candidate similar to AOC). I hope you can help me covering this election on Conservapedia in some way since outside Chile is not well known. Btw, Kast met with Marco Rubio recently.--Capitalist.Chile (talk) 10:57, December 13, 2021 (EST)

Bruh, Rubio? Cringe. Vince Did 7-14 (talk) 11:21, December 13, 2021 (EST)

Question: Did white people found the Chilean state? RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 13:09, December 14, 2021 (EST)

The Chilean Castizo elite founded the Chilean Republic with Bernardo O'Higgins (Irish) and Lord Cochrane (British) founded the Navy. But Chile was mainly founded by the Spanish Empire with Pedro de Valdivia and the Spaniards mixed with the natives.Texto en negrita —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Capitalist.Chile (talk)

Oh, so the natives are victims of colonialism. I see. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 16:02, December 14, 2021 (EST)

Not as much as the left tries to tell about, the Spanish Empire actually tried to integrate the natives, most of them mixing voluntarily, the indigenous from the south (Araucanos) were the ones who opposed the most, but in the center they mixed.--Capitalist.Chile (talk) 16:09, December 14, 2021 (EST)

So is a Chilean who immigrates to the United States a "people of color" and victim of colonialism?

Secondly, are Chilean elections vestiges of Western culture and civilization? RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 16:22, December 14, 2021 (EST)

A Chilean who immigrates to the US is not a victim of colonialism and "people of color" it depends, because there are Chileans that look like Europeans and others are more Catizo, but definetly not a "people of color" like a subsaharian descendent... And about the second question, the elections were kind of that since Boric, the leftist that won, wants a "Plurinational State" and that means changing the Chilean identity for ever ending with our historic one (One Nation with mixed people) now it will be "Many nations inside one state" which is false but that happen in Bolivia. So yeah, a sad moment for Chile rn and don't forget us since leftist will try to use us a as an example of progressive policies and will try to cop that on the US an the world.--Capitalist.Chile (talk) 10:43, December 22, 2021 (EST)

Time citation on MPR

This headline, "Setback for vaccine tyrants: Omicron variant negates Pfizer vaccine antibodies for coronavirus. [35] Update: Israeli study finds Pfizer COVID-19 booster protects against Omicron.[36] Boosters from AstraZeneca Plc and Pfizer/BioNTech SE improve protection against the omicron variant to as much as 75% in the early days after the shot.[37]", makes no sense. The South African study was of 12 patients. Furthermore, nobody cares about a vaccine developed for the original Covid-19 from two years ago, and confusing those vaccines with the omicron outbreak engenders confusion. The whole thing, using Time magazine as an authority, is junk and should be scraped. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 18:40, December 14, 2021 (EST)

The MPR makes this claim:

Boosters from AstraZeneca Plc and Pfizer/BioNTech SE improve protection against the omicron variant to as much as 75% in the early days after the shot

whereas the title of the article linked to reads:

Pfizer Vaccine Has 23% Efficacy Vs. Omicron in South African Lab Study

The whole thing needs to be scraped. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 18:46, December 14, 2021 (EST)

The COVID vaccine article reads this:

The "vaccines" involved in the majority of the American deaths and injuries were manufactured by Moderna and Pfizer-Biontech.[6] Among the American deaths that resulted from the "vaccines", Miami obstetrician Dr. Gregory Michael died two weeks after suffering from a hemorrhagic stroke following receiving a Pfizer-Biontech CCP flu "vaccine"[7] and Kassidi Kurrill, a Utah woman and single mother of two who had no known medical issues, died from complications four days after receiving a second dose of the Moderna CCP flu "vaccine",[9] ... It was recently reported that the Pfizer-Biontech and Moderna "vaccines" were discovered to be more damaging to health than previously thought...

Why are we pitching Pfizer/BioNTech on MPR when CP articles say precisely the opposite? RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 20:38, December 14, 2021 (EST)

I mean, c'mon. Pfizer/BioNTech might have helped 23% of the 12 people studied who survived the first shot, but this stuff is just getting ridiculous. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 21:51, December 14, 2021 (EST)

Dems undermine the constitution

With dozens being held as political prisoners for the crime of demonstrating for Trump at the Capitol, today's headlines are all about the threat to democracy posed by Trump and the January 6th demonstration. Here's a debunking of Schiff's latest fraud: "During January 6 Hearing, Schiff Doctored Text Messages Between Mark Meadows And Rep. Jim Jordan."

Are the Dems really the defenders of American democracy? Let's take a look:

Idealizing Marxists. The BLM leaders boast that they are "trained Marxists." Biden nominated Marxist economist Saule Omarova to a banking position. The mainstream media applauded like she'd earn it.
Packing the Supreme Court. The court had a liberal majority from the 1950s until very recently. Liberals can hardly claim that they are underrepresented. But they do. See "Elizabeth Warren Says It’s Time to Destroy the Supreme Court."
Popular vote is not democracy. If no one wins a majority, the democratic solution is to hold a runoff. Only two countries in the world elect their leaders by popular vote, Mexico and Nicaragua. Will the U.S. become the third? See "The Uniquely Dangerous Movement to End the Electoral College."
The great replacement. It's hard to get a straight answer as to why the Dems are so enthusiastic about illegal immigration. But it is reasonable to think that they don't like the way Americans vote and are bringing in foreigners to do that job for us. PeterKa (talk) 16:35, December 15, 2021 (EST)

You need a better term than "great replacement", it sounds too Alex Jonesish & Charlottesville. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 19:46, December 15, 2021 (EST)

Great minds think alike. Victor Hanson wrote about this issue today: "Why Is the Left Worried Suddenly About the End of Democracy?." Hanson concludes that the left is all about power for themselves. It's hard to take "democracy" talk seriously from people who rioted their way to power in 2020. PeterKa (talk) 09:16, December 16, 2021 (EST)

Reading the Woodrow Wilson article the other day (written by Prof. RJensen) gave a whole bunch of clues where this thinking comes from. For example, under a subheading entitled ==Democracy== he says, 'Wilson believed that the citizen must “marry his interests to the state”, which sounds an awful lot like "Every class and every individual must help us to found the new Reich". Or this one: "The former political science professor's views on government and human nature (and our relationship to the state) became the foundations of Democratic Party liberalism", which I revised to "views on government and human nature (and the relationship to the state) became the foundations of Democratic Party statism."

Amazing what difference a misplaced word here or there can do. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 15:14, December 17, 2021 (EST)

I'd argue three countries vote by the popular vote. Don't forget France and its General Strikes/Riots every other month, which is the entire POINT of the popular vote since 1789. Besides, I wouldn't even say "democracy" was a misplaced word. Even Lenin advocated for Democracy in What Is to Be Done, as did Karl Marx. And in fact, a large part of WHY the Founding Fathers NEVER wanted the United States to be a democracy is precisely BECAUSE it was essentially statism, citing Athens' fall and, more contemporarily, the events of the French Revolution (heck, Benjamin Franklin came up with a good analogy regarding supper, wolves, and a lamb regarding what democracy actually is). Put that way, yes, Liberals are indeed defenders of American democracy, since real American democracy is as Tom Hayden put it "participatory democracy" or "Democracy is in the streets", just as it was in France and Somalia. Want to save America and restore it? One of the first steps is to STOP inferring it's democratic, it's not, it's a constitutional republic. Pokeria1 (talk) 16:09, December 17, 2021 (EST)

You missed the point. I substituted "the foundations of Democratic Party liberalism" with "the foundations of Democratic Party statism". Democratic party "liberalism" has absolutely nothing to do with "democracy" (or "our" democracy, as Jensen seems to imply). RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 16:57, December 17, 2021 (EST)

What YOU fail to understand is that those foundations were actually implemented by Thomas Jefferson, NOT Woodrow Wilson (all he did was make it a bit more apparent). Let's not forget that Jefferson was the same guy who literally sang praises for the Jacobin's mass murders at their height. Not to mention America never has been a democracy, the founding fathers during the Constitutional process made it VERY clear that America was NEVER intended to be a democracy of ANY sort, and in fact, if anything, part of the reason the founding fathers didn't want democracy at all was precisely BECAUSE that was how Athens fell, and more contemporarily, it led directly to the French Revolution's excesses. Heck, in many ways, Jefferson himself WAS a Statist. Just read Liberty: The God that Failed if you don't believe me. Pokeria1 (talk) 17:46, December 17, 2021 (EST)

Wilson, according to Jensen, rejected Jefferson: "Wilson, therefore, dismissed the Declaration's assertion that rights are endowed by our Creator. Wilson lectured that, “If you want to understand the real Declaration of Independence, do not repeat the preface.”" Jensen even puts the same claim in the third paragraph of the Intro:

"He rejected the doctrine of the Founders of the Republic in the preface to the Declaration of Independence that people are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" and asserted the Hegelian principle that the citizen should "marry his interests to the state". Ironically, Woodrow Wilson laid the foundations for a state that has no use for God and uses “every means. . .by which society may be perfected.” And today Wilson's ideological heir, Barack Obama, is carrying out his grandiose plan that declares the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution relics of the distant eighteenth century and seeks to bring everyone and everything, including religious groups, under control of the state." (Last sentence appears to be someone else's edit). RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 18:03, December 17, 2021 (EST)

Fine, let me quote that passage for you (and there's more sources than THAT showing Jefferson as ultimately being a proto-Statist):

"Interring the Jefferson Legend

"With his death approaching, Jefferson knew full well that 'the vagaries of life had left a vulnerable legacy,' as even a Library of Congress biography admits.[160] To fund the lavish life a retinue of slaves had helped make this possible, Jefferson accumulated massive debts that were satisfied in part by the post-mortem sale of his already heavily mortgaged human chattels. 'Fear for his reputation and public legacy led him to beg his closest friend, James Madison, to 'take care of me when dead.[161]"

"Today, libertarians are engaged in the same mission in defense of Jefferson. For without him, to whom can they point as an example of Liberty fulfilling its promises? What becomes of their defense of Liberty if even Jefferson, the very Apostle of Liberty, revealed that Liberty in practice means Power in disguise? Led by such dearly departed gurus as Murray Rothbard, libertarians of the so-called Austrian School hold fast to the idea, unsupported by any real evidence of comparative human happiness, that true freedom was won for America and the world with the overthrow of King George and the creation of 'republican government.' Firmly convinced that Liberty delivered what it was promised in 1776 (when? where? how?), libertarian historians draw a bright line at the beginning of the Lincoln era, depicting his actions as a betrayal of the principles of 'Jeffersonian democracy' expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Kentucky Resolutions, especially 'states rights.' The following is a typical example of this 'libertarian narrative'[162] of Liberty.

"'Jefferson was the apostle of states' rights, enunciated in his famous Kentucky Resolve of 1798; Lincoln waged the bloodiest war in American history to destroy the Jeffersonian states' rights doctrine. Jefferson authored America's Declaration of Secession from the British empire, known as the Declaration of Independence. Lincoln's overriding purpose in his war was to destroy the secessionist and states' rights principles of the Declaration (while using slick rhetoric designed to pretend that he revered the document).[163]'

"Missing from this historical cartoon are all the inconvenient details of Jefferson's career examined on the preceding pages, including these:

"* His drafting of legislation imposing a compulsory oath of loyalty to the Revolution and the State of virginia and renouncing loyalty to the King, providing severe legal penalties for refusal to take the oath, and punishing even "verbal crimes" against the Revolution.

"* His call for the outlawry and shooting on sight of Tory counter-revolutionaries who should have been treated as prisoners of war, pursuant to a bill of attainder he himself drafted and pushed through the Virginia legislature.

"* His imprisonment of political criminals in virtual concentration camps while revolutionary governor of Virginia.

"* His meddling in French affairs while Minister to France, including outright conspiracy with Lafayette and the National Assembly in the overthrow of Louis XVI.

"* His support for the early Jacobin massacres as expressed in the "Adam and Eve" letter.

"* His lifelong ownership of slaves, some of whom he had flogged for attempting to escape, and his continued slave trading while President.

"* His endorsement of state law prosecutions for 'seditious libel' against the President and Congress.

"* His 'we are all Federalists' Inaugural Address.

"* His expansionist acquisition of the Louisiana Territory and the subjection of its inhabitants to the federal government without their consent, even though he himself believed this to be unconstitutional.

"* His supine acceptance of the drastic worsening of the lot of the slaves in Louisiana under federal law.

"* His approval of an expedient and quite illegal 'amendment' of the Constitution by the Republican-controlled House to expand the definition of 'high crimes and misdemeanors' in order to facilitate the impeachment of his Federalist opponent, Judge Pickering, for drunkenness.

"* His attempt to stage-manage the conviction and execution of Aaron Burr merely for allegedly planning to sever Louisiana from the Union, a prosecution based on an expansive interpretation of the definition of 'treason' rejected by the Supreme Court.

"* His failed effort, following Burr's acquittal, to eliminate the independent, life-tenured federal judiciary from the Constitution--which he had earlier supported as essential to civil liberties--on the grounds that no branch of government should be 'independent of the nation.'

"*His support for General Wilkinson's military dictatorship in the Louisiana Territory in response to Burr's illusory 'threat' to the Union.

"*His declaration that 'where the laws become inadequate even to their own preservation...the universal resource is a dictator, or martial law.

"*His dictatorial embargo of American shipping, including the federal seizure of ships and cargo without due process.

"*His instigation of 'treason' trials and his demand for the death penalty for American citizens who had merely attempted to recover their own property from federal agents.

"*His retention of the entire fledgling federal bureaucracy, his expansion of the U.S. military, and his budgetary expenditures for federal projectes during his terms as President.

"*His support for the federal military conquest of Canada and a federally prosecuted war against Great Britain as necessary to America's fina emancipation from 'tyranny.'

"*His fervent advocacy to compulsory universal military service, which almost passed Congress during his presidency.

"*His call for war on the secessionists of the Hartford Convention should they secede from the Union.

"*His opposition to any restriction on the extension of slavery into the territories because it would divide the Union and impair property rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

"* His scheme for the government-subsidized forcible separation of slave children from their parents and their deportation to Haiti or Sierra Leone.

"*His support for the Monroe Doctrine, which made America the hemispheric policeman of Liberty.

"*His entire grandiose vision of an 'empire of Liberty' whose center and summit would be a militarily mighty United States with armed forces raised through the compusory military service he advocated.

"Not even Rothbard, who otherwise sings the praises of Jefferson and the 'libertarian creed' of the Founders, could ignore completely the truth about Jefferson's career. Wrote Rothbard:

"'The Jeffersonian drive towards virtually no government foundered after Jefferson took office, first, with concessions to the Federalists..and then with the unconstitutional purchase of the Louisiana Territory. But most particularly it foundered with the imperialist drive toward war with Britain in Jefferson's second term, a drive which led to war and to a one-party system which established virtually the entire statist Federalist program: High military expenditures, a central bank, a protective tariff, direct federal taxes, public works.[164]'

"But where can one find any sign of the 'Jeffersonian drive toward virtually no government' if that very drive 'foundered' precisely when Jefferson took office, both as governor of Virginia and as President of the United States? It is easy enough for Rothbard (who fails to mention the tyrannical Embargo) to say that after Jefferson left office he was "horrified at the results" and "brooded at Monticello...." But these psychological touches do not alter the basic picture: When he actually wielded power, the Apostle of Liberty was no less vigorous than the Federalists and in fact far outdid them. Rothbard perpetuates the myth of 'Jeffersonian democracy' even as he admits the historical facts that explode it."

You can find them on Pages 237-39 from that book. And as far as the sources, they are the following:

[160] "Thomas Jefferson: Legacy," http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/jefferson/jeffleg.html.

[161] Ibid.

[162] Onuf, Jefferson's Empire, 85.

[163] Thomas Di Lorenzo, "The Latest Defamation of Jefferson," www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo100.html.

[164] Murray Rothbard, "The Libertarian Heritage: The American Revolution and Classical Liberalism," In For a New Liberty e-text excerpt lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard121.html.

And let's not forget he considered his role in creating The Declaration of the Rights of Man And of the Citizen to be his crowning achievement as well (that's even a major part of why John Adams and Thomas Jefferson broke their friendship apart), and that document led directly to the mess the Jacobins caused in France, and was ultimately rooted in the same philosopher king garbage worship that Voltaire pushed, and by extension, what Woodrow Wilson himself would later try to push. So Wilson didn't like Jefferson. Big whoop. Stalin also didn't like Hitler either, yet they clearly adhered to the same overall philosophy. Pokeria1 (talk) 19:03, December 17, 2021 (EST)

To this very day, people still claim what a great advocate for "liberalism" and "democracy" the segregationist Woodrow Wilson is. Not only that, but (as Jensen here clearly says), Wilson laid the foundations of modern "Democratic Party liberalism". RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 17:04, December 17, 2021 (EST)

In a way, he most certainly was a great advocate, since he tried to pull the same stunt Voltaire and his ilk did and wrecked France beyond repair with its revolution. In fact, want the true face of Democracy? Look at a guillotine or the scars various Churches possessed from the Jacobins' depraved actions. Pokeria1 (talk) 17:46, December 17, 2021 (EST)

Well said. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 18:03, December 17, 2021 (EST)

Thanks. And if anything, democracy's direct role in the French Revolution is the biggest argument for why it ought to be destroyed completely, and stop America from being a democracy. By claiming we're a democracy, we're playing into the left's hands. Pokeria1 (talk) 19:03, December 17, 2021 (EST)

There's still a difference between mobocracy, anarchy, and democracy. A true democracy implies some respect for the rights of fellow citizens, which in the American Democrat party's 194-year existence has never, ever been the case. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 19:23, December 17, 2021 (EST)

Whether there is a difference or not is irrelevant, what's clear is that there's too little of a distinction enough that the founding fathers explicitly rejected any notion of America becoming a democracy. Want to know why America even came close to actually BEING a democracy? You can thank Woodrow Wilson for that bit. Pokeria1 (talk) 20:41, December 17, 2021 (EST)

Not to belabor my point, but even referring back to Hanson's article, Why Is the Left Worried Suddenly About the End of Democracy?, the Democrat party has, since its founding, confused itself with democracy. There never was, and there is not now, anything "democratic" about the Democrat party. If the Democrat party is worried about "the end Democracy", I read it to say the Democrat party is worried about the end of the Democrat party, or Democrat party control of minorities and government. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 21:42, December 17, 2021 (EST)

The Democrat party, from Andrew Jackson to Lyndon Johnson to Barack Obama and Joe Biden, has always been about white privilege and control of minorities. Barack Obama is, was, and remains an Uncle Tom, and is why he claims the mantle of "progressivism", to give himself cover to other Blacks that he in any way is a traditional Democrat. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 21:47, December 17, 2021 (EST)

Who said anything to the contrary regarding those guys? I'm just pointing out that democracy itself is garbage from the get go, with even the founding fathers viewing it as such. So in that sense, the Democrats are actually pretty accurate on that front. Just ask the Jacobins. Or even Ancient Athens. The Founding Fathers and Fraser Tyler even directly tied the fall of Athens to democracy. And BTW, it's been like that since Thomas Jefferson and his cheerleading the Jacobin butchers. So don't blame Andrew Jackson for the start of the modern Democrat Party. All he did was continue it (not that what he's done was at all good, but Jefferson ultimately started the Democrats' practices before Jackson did, including the effigy burning of John Jay). And quite frankly, I WELCOME the end to democracy as a whole, not just the Democrat party. America if anything started going to the sewers when we adopted democratic principles thanks to Woodrow Wilson. Pokeria1 (talk) 00:20, December 18, 2021 (EST)

It is through a participatory democracy that we elect a republican government. There are no restrictions on not owning land, for example, to participate in democratic elections. The democratic process ends there, and the winners serve a republican form of government. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 01:12, December 18, 2021 (EST)

Yes, actually, there WAS restrictions at the time the founding fathers created it. They specifically stated that only land-owners, aka, people who had actual skin in the game, could vote, and even then, only in the House of Representatives was their vote directly counted. No one voted for the Supreme Court at all even today, Senators were nominated by the Secretaries of States instead of directly voted into office (at least, that was the case until the passage of a certain amendment), and even regarding the President, the whole reason an Electoral College exists is precisely to avoid the tendency to have the popular vote dominate all, actually allow less populous states to have a chance at having their vote count. And real participatory democracy is outright rioting in the streets. Just ask Tom Hayden, who literally used "participatory democracy" in a context that was closer to outright rioting during the 1960s. Pokeria1 (talk) 06:12, December 18, 2021 (EST)

No, I believe your assertion on land ownership is incorrect. And there have been recent arguments in the aftermath of the stolen 2020 election to re-empower the states by repeal of the 17 Amendment direct election of Senators as a check on the abuse of a stolen election in the electoral college. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 13:24, December 18, 2021 (EST)

The argument goes, by repealing the 17th Amendment, Senators would be direct representatives of the state legislatures who elected them, and in the electoral certification process, could nullify a stolen election in their state without any delayed action from their respective state legislatures or audits.

as to the land ownership controversy, there were no restrictions based on land ownership. There was however, the 3/5 rule which gave disproportionate power to plantation masters who obviously owned land. Slaves indeed were counted in the census and given 3/5 proportional representation in the House of Representatives, but they could not vote. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 13:42, December 18, 2021 (EST)

<digression>Little known fact: many believe that slaves had "no rights". This is incorrect. Slaves were counted in the Census every 10 years, and factored into House reapportionment. Disbursements of federal funds in most all cases are based upon census data. So indeed slaves were, albeit disproportionately, represented in the House of Representatives. They were however denied the right to vote. This gave rise to the so-called Slave Power of plantation owners, who presumably voted in the best interests of their respective ongoing economic enterprises. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 14:01, December 18, 2021 (EST)

"Republic" suggests a Roman model while "democracy" suggests an Athenian model. At the time the constitution was written, democracy was a dirty word. Athens was known for executing Socrates and for losing the Peloponnesian War to Sparta. The French revolutionaries admired Athens and favored the word "democracy." Citizen Genêt, the French ambassador, outfitted a warship called the Little Democrat in Charleston in 1793. The Jeffersonians were Republicans in Virginia, but Democrats in New York. Van Buren, who was from New York, became president in 1845. Since then, its been the Democratic Party. PeterKa (talk) 08:29, December 19, 2021 (EST)

Any male of voting age could speak in the Athenian forum, they didn't need to be elected as in Rome. Evidently Athens was a hick town in size compared to Rome. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 11:14, December 19, 2021 (EST)

There was also a popular assembly in Rome. The senators, who were former elected officials, and the consuls held most of the power. A consul listened to the Senate because he wanted to be a "pro-consul," a former consul named by the Senate to govern a province. That's where the money was. PeterKa (talk) 11:32, December 19, 2021 (EST)

So Athenian democracy was run like a school board meeting or New England Townhall. They still elected an Executive board or Politburo (the 9 Archontes) for the practical application of running things. Personally, I just don't see where there's a big ideological or philosophical dispute between a republican or democratic form of government. It's no more than a question of logistics or scale. RobS^{Let's Go Brandon!} 12:31, December 19, 2021 (EST)

The decision making body in Athens was the Boule, 500 citizens chosen by lot. PeterKa (talk) 14:49, December 19, 2021 (EST)