Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay: New Ordeal"

Revision as of 21:53, June 11, 2007

Who coined the term "New Ordeal?"--Franklin 10:50, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

It's common knowledge. Who coined the term, "Contract on Amercia"? RobS 10:55, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

No, it is not common knowledge. As for the "Contract on America" that was a democratic spoof of the the Republican "Contract with America" during the 1994 midterm elections--Franklin 11:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I agree, I've never heard of the New Ordeal, and I'm not getting any quick info on it from Google. I think Franklin's question is valid - is it coined by the author of the sourced book? --Colest 11:07, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Even the single reference for the page makes no mention of "New Ordeal", nor can I find any online reference to the term in this context. Is this a term that Rush has created or was it created by the author of this page? Boomcoach 11:09, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Rational_wiki has some discussion of this likewise. RobS 11:25, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I looked on rational_wiki. The term seems to be your creation, and the cited sources do not support your contention. The 1945 Time magazine article deals with the impending demobilization of U.S. troops at the close of World War Two, and the chart showing flucuations in the U.S. economy deals with the last few decades of the nineteenth century. If you are trying to construct some sort of argument about the New Deal (which did have its shortcomings) this is a very poor way to do it.--Franklin 11:35, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Contract on America was a spoof? Really? Seems common knowledge spoofed New Dealers for 70 years and they didn't even know it. Must be more evidence that they did not know everything afterall, huh? RobS 11:39, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Is it really too much to ask to drop the sarcasam and just state who coined the phrase? I'm not sure what rational_wiki has to do with this site, either. --Colest 11:41, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

It's been common knowledge for decades. RobS 11:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

The phrase may be common knowledge in certain circles, but I think it is not as widely spread as you believe it to be. --Colest 12:00, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Hardly common knowledge. Where did the phrase come from? Can you cite that? Was it in Hayek's book that you cited (although I cannot imagine Hayek being so crass)?--Franklin 11:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Well of course, given censorship, oppression, and the Fairness Doctrine for 50 years. RobS 12:02, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Well, you are not being censored or oppressed. I have asked you to forthrightly provide your sources, and you have directed us to rational_wiki, where the cites did not support your contention. So, I ask again, what is your evidence for this term? Is it in Hayek or another source?--Franklin 12:06, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I beleive I've answered several times. RobS 12:27, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Actually, you have not. You have have been asked several times and you respond that the term is common knowledge. Show a little bit of intellectual honesty my friend.--Franklin 12:33, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

It also survives in oral histories. RobS 12:34, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Wonderful! Many oral histories have been recorded and transcirbed in book or sometimes journal format. Can you cite some?--Franklin 12:37, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Well duh, what does oral mean? RobS 12:45, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Why did you revert my edit and remove my comment? I repeat: many oral histories have transcribed into printed form/ Can you direct me to a few where I might see this term used?--Franklin 12:42, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm sorry, hit the wrong button (meant to hit mark as patrolled). RobS 12:45, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

The only reference I can find is in the title of a 1948 book, reprinted in 1968. The book is referenced in Hayak's bibliography and a few other places, but I can find no usages of the term itself.previous unsigned comment added by User:Boomcoach

Doh! Forgot the tildes. Sorry. Boomcoach 11:05, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

Where is this found?

I can't find any mention of this in the text at the bottom--it is totally unrelated. Can we take this out? Robs gave no answer above. FredK 15:30, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

After looking around, I can find no source for this except conservapedia. Now that means either conservapedia is that good, or the whole thing is a lie a fiction. I think it is the latter. FredK 15:33, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Like all CP articles, it's a work in progress. RobS 16:25, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, the problem is, it is still not a real thing. FredK 16:27, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

If you could find even ONE source for this, aside from that book that doesn't mention it, we could work together. FredK 16:28, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Can't find it, either

A Google Books search on "New Ordeal" Roosevelt turns up thirteen hits, none relevant.

The closest thing to a relevant hit is The New Ordeal by Planning: The Experience of the Forties and the Sixties, by John Jewkes, which is an update to his 1948 book "Ordeal by Planning." A search in this book for "Roosevelt" turns up no hits, nor does a search for "New Deal," meaning that whatever he means by this, it is not a satirical takeoff on "New Deal."

I believe this should be retitled as an essay and "signed" by RobS and co-contributors. It is not an exposition of a well-established conservative locution (like "Death tax"); I think it's a personal essay and that RobS hopes to promote the use of an original or at least poorly-known coinage.

If a home-schooled student were asked, as a fill-in-the-blanks exam question, "What name is used to refer to the period of economic decline between the crash of 1929 and the Second World War," do you think he or she would get credit for "New Ordeal?" Dpbsmith 16:46, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

I concur, thanks for your help and honesty. FredK 16:48, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Why this kind jokes are kept here?!

If this is some kind of encyclopedia, please, delete. Refering to nothing... --Aulis Eskola 17:34, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

WP:New Deal

I think we're having an impact. Look what WP's been doing to its New Deal entry, they expanded the size of the chart. [1] One of these days I may even investigate the basis of that chart. Oh, they also deleted "Commies in the New Deal". [2] I didn't write that particular subsection, but much of what it linked to I did. RobS 16:58, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

New Cites

The two new "citations" have no apparent link to the article, any more than the first one does. The Time magazine article is about US troops coming back from WWII, and the book is part of an autobiography of FRD, and a fairly early colume of it (2 of 4). RobS, it loks like you are just grabbing anything from the 40's or 50's that has the word "Ordeal" in it. You appear to have created an article out of whole cloth. I don't know if this is a term a favorite prof once used, but to pretend that it is of any common usage outside of yourself is comepletely unsubstantiated. It has no place in any sort of encylopedia, unless you can show some relavent citations, not simply things that have a common word. You might as well se a citation about "New York in the 50's" because it has the word "New" init! Boomcoach 17:22, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

Please feel free to improve the article. RobS 17:23, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

It is an article about something that has no apparent existence. There is no evidence that there is anything to write an article about. It is just a name that you appear to have conjured out of thin air. Boomcoach 17:46, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

Well we can do a redirect from Great Bear Market to here, but Great Bear Market only goes to 1942, it doesn't include the Malthusian catastrophe that followed, and the Recovery period. RobS 17:52, 11 June 2007 (EDT)