Talk:Homeschooling

Brigham Young was a Mormon, not a christian.

Mormons consider themselves to be Christians.

The official name of their church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints ("LDS Church" for short).

See material I've just moved to Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints#Mormons' relationship to Christianity.

One dictionary definition of "Christian" is "Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus." It seems to me that Mormons meet that definition.

Who ought to make the judgement, among all the denominations that regard themselves as Christian, which are "really Christian?" Dpbsmith 20:10, 18 January 2007 (EST)

P. S. The question of what Mormons believe is sure to receive a lot of discussion in a year or so, since Mitt Romney, a Mormon, is running for President. Dpbsmith 20:14, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Are you a Mormon? Not to be prejudiced against you if you are but just wondering. Will N.

• No, I'm not a Mormon. Dpbsmith 21:37, 18 January 2007 (EST)

I probably should explain more. I did react to the phrase "a Mormon not a Christian." What went through my mind, and what I knew off the top of my head was: "Whoa! That's not right. Mormons consider themselves to be Christians, and the church is even called Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-day Saints." I also got just a little bit of steam up, because there is some discrimination against Mormons—assuming Mitt Romney runs I think we'll have plenty of chance to see this soon—and saying that Mormons aren't Christians sounds a little like an attack.

So, after I wrote what I knew off the top of my head, from my experience with Wikipedia and with college, etc. I've found that if you want to convince other people, instead of just telling them what you think, it helps if you can show them why you think that. So I decided to do a bit of very quick research. I figured that Mormons probably get asked this question a lot and that the official LDS church website would probably have something to say about it.

First I found the passage I put in quotation marks above, the one that begins "Jesus Christ is the Son of God." I probably should have stopped there, but when I saw that they actually have a "Frequently Asked Questions" page with answers to the questions "Are you Christians" and "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a Christian church?" I couldn't resist putting that in, too. I probably put in too much. Dpbsmith 05:45, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Ben Franklin was a Deist --TimSvendsen 22:58, 18 January 2007 (EST)

Yes, that's right... no time to look further but I'm pretty sure Franklin did not believe in the divinity of Jesus and did not belong to an organized Christian church. Guess the whole list needs checking? Dpbsmith 05:45, 19 January 2007 (EST)

George Bernard Shaw

George Bernard Shaw... hmmm... I don't think he would have cared for being labelled as a Christian. You can make out a case that he did accept some of the moral teachings of Jesus as Shaw, personally interpreted them. But in his will, he wrote:

My religious convictions and scientific views cannot at present be more specifically defined than as those of a believer in creative revolution. I desire that no public monument or work of art or inscription or sermon or ritual service commemorating me shall suggest that I accepted the tenets peculiar to any established church or denomination nor take the form of a cross or any other instrument of torture or symbol of blood sacrifice.[1]

If he was a Christian, he was an awfully complicated and unusual Christian. He certainly did not belong to any organized denomination. He wrote that there was “not a single established religion in the world in which an intelligent or educated man could believe."

He did write that "Christianity might be a good thing if anyone ever tried it." And he wrote that "Christianity as a specific doctrine was slain with Jesus, suddenly and utterly." That is, he did not think any organized Christian religions actually practiced the teachings of Jesus.

He wrote a lot about Christianity in his Preface to Androcles and the Lion. I'm not going to try to summarize it, partly because I haven't read it through in a long time, but also because Shaw's ideas are so very original and unorthodox that they are really hard to pigeonhole.

He dealt with religious themes in his plays Saint Joan, Major Barbara, and Androcles and the Lion, and in their prefaces, but if you can tell "which side" he's on after reading those plays, you're better than I am.

He also dealt with evolution, in the play Back to Methuselah and the Preface to it—in a way which will not please either evolutionists or creationists. Dpbsmith 11:10, 20 January 2007 (EST)

I question the inclusion of Mark Twain, similarly. Dpbsmith 12:32, 20 January 2007 (EST)

Recent additions

Harpie Snark recently added John Walker Lindh, Adam Yahiye Gadahn, Charles Fletcher Lummis, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Christopher Paolini to the list. I deleted them when reverting some vandalism.

I'm restoring Charles Fletcher Lummis and Christopher Paolini on his say-so.

Franklin D. Roosevelt attended Groton, an elite private prep school.

John Walker Lindh is a Taliban member and Adam Yahiye Gadahn is an Al-Qaeda member. I don't think they should go onto the list without a pretty good source citation, on the grounds that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," or, in this case, surprising claims require good evidence. Dpbsmith 18:37, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Christopher Paolini is the author of the Inheritance Trilogy (Eragon, Eldest, and a third book yet unreleased). I know he was home schooled, but have never seen anything about his beliefs. I asked to judge by his writing, I would tend to think he is not a Christian based on some elements of his books such as the atheism of the elves. So if anyone has a source for this, please post it. ~ SharonS 19:45, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Raw results:

There's a source for his being home-schooled, anyway: A profile of Christopher Paolini, "He was home-schooled by his parents, Kenneth Paolini and Talita Hodgkinson, through an accredited correspondence course at American School, Chicago, Illinois from which he graduated with his high school diploma at 15 years of age." Dpbsmith 20:16, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Gadahn apparently was home-schooled: 'Average American boy' accused as terrorist, Adam was the oldest of four children, all of whom were home-schooled.

A lot of Google hits on Lindh being home-schooled, but it's all blogs... Some stuff about in Google Books about Lindh "beginning life as a Christian" but turning to Islam "in high school."

This page credits Lummis as begin home-schooled but does not itself cite its sources... No clear whether or not this is supposed to be a list of home-schooled Christians... FDR listed, Groton not explained... She also lists Paolini... Dpbsmith 20:27, 23 February 2007 (EST)

Sources: Adam Yahiye Gadahn: New Yorker John Walker Lindh: blessedcause.org Franklin D. Roosevelt: National Park Service Harpie snark 14:30, 26 February 2007 (EST)

Good. Thanks. I appreciate it. I'm removing the Wikipedia references because Wikipedia itself does not consider Wikipedia articles reliable sources that can be cited in other articles.

FDR: I'm adding a note to the FDR entry, because it seems to me to be a borderline case; I don't think private tutors and Groton would be everyone's idea of what is meant by "Christian homeschooling."

Lindh: I don't really know what to make of the blessedcause.org BlessedCause reference, both because I don't understand what the site is about... but in any case, I do not see where it identifies Lindh as being Christian homeschooled. In fact if I understand the article it says there's a dispute about where he went to school, and says that according to Houghton Mifflin, he went to a public middle school in Marin County—an assertion which the site attacks. The Wikipedia article says he was homeschooled starting at age 12, but does not say he was Christian homeschooled. Wikipedia's own source for that item (wrongly formatted in the article) is a web page entitled The Making of John Walker Lindh. I read it as saying that he was in and out of public schools, and I do not see anything to suggest that his homeschooling resembles what is meant by "Christian homeschooling."

Gadahn: The source you cite says, pretty clearly I think, "Adam also joined several Christian homeschool support groups. (At the time, nearly all such groups in the region were Christian," so I don't see any question that he was "Christian homeschooled." Dpbsmith 19:13, 26 February 2007 (EST)

Actually, there's a problem of definition here... this article has never defined exactly what the criterion is for inclusion in the list. Gadahn would be a good example of someone who clearly did undergo "Christian homeschooling," and certainly was "homeschooled," but surely was not "a Christian" and therefore not a "homeschooled Christian." I think this could use some discussion. Dpbsmith 19:36, 26 February 2007 (EST)