Talk:Soccer

Soccer is the term used in North America to refer to what is more commonly known as "football". The name derived in England as slang for "Association Football" (a similar construction can be seen in referring to rugby as "rugger"), it is the most popular sport in the world although it has failed to gain popularity in the United States and Canada.

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• most popular sport in the world
• not as popular in US & Canada as which other sports?
• derivation of name: soc in "Association"?

Done and referenced. Airdish 05:22, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

• called "football" everywhere but North America?

Futebal, fussball, le foot, futbol, de voetbal, calcio. Is that enough evidence? Airdish 05:22, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Evidence of what? That it's called "football" everywhere? Because I think that's pretty conclusive. All of those mean "football", except for "calcio", which means "kicking." In Chinese, it is "foot+ball", zuqiu, 足球. Basically, football is football, and soccer is an ugly name that doesn't express what the game is. And "football" is by far the most common name - about 400,000,000 Europeans use terms that are identical in meaning or even sound, 1,300,000,000 Chinese use a term that means "football", and the inventors of the sport use the term "football". If the site as a whole prefers the use of "soccer", then fine, but it's not an accurate article in a sense. Blackjuice 10:59, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

It's called soccer in Australia, though the name football is gaining popularity (they are trying to compare Australian soccer to World Football). It is still commonly refered to as soccer by the public at large. Hannibal ad portas 21:42, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

Shouldn't it be categorised under Sports? I saw that categorisation was just removed. NotForgotten 16:01, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

Hello, soccer is a sub-category of sports. Generally speaking, we try to move materials to sub-categories when they exist. Learn together 16:04, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

Name

Why is this sport being called soccer, when in pretty much all of the world it is called football? Daphnea 13:38, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

Because this is an American website. It is noted in the article that it's called "football" outside the U.S. Jinxmchue 13:49, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

Ah, I didn't realise that. So everything here is written from the point of view of the United States? Daphnea 16:42, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

Do you see the Conservapedia logo on the upper left? That should sufficiently answer your question. Of course, this is little different from Wikipedia, which typically uses American spelling, terms and phrases. (When they try to be world-minded over there, it just ends up being silly or confusing. The WP article about soccer is titled "Association football." People are going to look at that rarely used phrase and think, "What the heck is that?") Jinxmchue 18:44, 23 June 2008 (EDT)

Etymology

The suggestion that the game is called "football" not because the ball is kicked with the foot but because it is played "on foot" rather than on horseback is a myth. It is a myth which has gained popularity in reason years, especially on the internet, but citing a website which puts this theory forward does not stop it being a myth. See for example this etymology website which states that the reason it was named football was because of kicking the ball.

The argument in the previously cited source is that football developed in the middle ages as "a game played by ordinary people, as distinct from the team games of the nobility which were played on horseback". This would make some sense, if there were any examples of team ball games played on horseback during this period. There were not. The only notable equine ball game is polo, which was played in the middle east since ancient times, but not in the English speaking world until the 19th century, several centuries after the first use of the word "football". Medieval and early modern equine sports in Europe were largely variants on jousting or combat, which did not involve balls. There were numerous ball games, all played on foot, such as tennis, croquet, bowls and stoolball (the origin of cricket). Since football was the only game which involved kicking the ball, this is the most probable reason for the origin of the name.

However, since there is disagreement on this issue, and this is likely to continue, it is probably better to keep any mention of the origin of the word "football" out of the article. Sideways 14:49, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Changes

I rewrote a large portion of the article to remove the redundant facts. In a short article, the information about soccer and football being the same game was repeated three times. As was the rule about not using hands. I hope this helps. NateE ^{Let Us Communicate} 15:02, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Sorry, but there are several more cases with the ball in play. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 18:01, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Can you please give me any example of when a player is allowed to use his hands while the ball is in play? And also, if you want to remove or rework that phrase, fine. But why do you revert the entire change to add back in the redundant passages? NateE ^{Let Us Communicate} 12:52, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

Those "redundant passages" make more clear the problem of hands. With the clock runing any player can touch the ball with hands in several cases like: corners, penalties, side throws (saque de banda), goal kick, etc. (Sorry, I am not familiar with the correct name in English.) It has to be clair that non intentional touch is also permitted. That Does not appear in your edits. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 14:01, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

The clock running and the ball in play are two different things altogether. During a corner, or a throw or any of the other examples you've noted, the ball is not in play. If you and I were on opposite teams, and I got a throw in, you can't make a play on the ball until it leaves my hands. That's what I mean by in play. NateE ^{Let Us Communicate} 14:15, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

I see your point and agree with it. Now you have to say the same thing in the article; It was you who start talking about "ball in play"; before it was more general; please make clear both cases. OK? Also: It has to be clear that non intentional touch is also permitted. --User:Joaquín Martínez, talk 16:06, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

Agreed, I'll start on that as soon as I have the time. NateE ^{Let Us Communicate} 16:49, 17 September 2008 (EDT)