Talk:Leftist

This is a total contradiction:

Politics on the 'left' usually imply taking positions in favor of poor, powerless, or oppressed people. Therefore communists, socialists, and social democrats are usually considered leftists

People living under Communism are not "oppressed". Pul-leez. It will be reverted, but I haven;t a clue how to fix it. RobS 14:56, 5 April 2007 (EDT)

That is not a contradiction but a limit of the one dimentional political view. That is why some views use an additional libertarian/authoritarian axis. The communist ideal is in favor of the positions mentioned above, but takes a very authoritarian approach to acheiving those goals. It is by that standard that it becomes oppressive and indeed, much of the reason that communism seems to fight its own ideals.

Exactly, it's not a contradiction at all: it's evidence that not every political viewpoint lies on a left/right spectrum. Back in 1917 communists and a lot of other kinds of leftist radicals stood up in favor of the poor and the serfs against the Russian nobility. They proceeded to massively screw up their country. So around 1989 a lot of ordinary Russians stood up against oppression by Soviet bureaucrats. The people who overthrew the USSR were:

1. leftist?
2. rightist?
3. none of the above? (Seems to me that's the right answer!!) --Redblue 05:55, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

By the way, I made some comments on how to define the political spectrum on the Talk:rightist page. --Redblue 05:57, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Rob, I studied Communism - both its theoretical components such as Marxism ( or "Marxism-Leninism") and its history in countries like Soviet Union, China, Cuba, Cambodia, etc.) I'm not sure what you mean by People living under Communism are not "oppressed". --Ed Poor 07:19, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

I was talking about this quote,

"Politics on the 'left' ...imply taking positions in favor of ...oppressed people. Therefore communists...are ...considered leftists

This ranks with Holocaust denial in it's offensive quality. RobS 16:42, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Here it is written that leftist "usually imply challenging the traditional system of a society, by people who believe their economic interests, or personal values, or political rights are not supported by the traditional ruling institutions." What about people in a country such as France with a highly regulated economy challenging this on the grounds that it doesn't support their economic interests, or personal values. Are such people leftist?

During the Reign of Terror of the early Enlightenment, the left attempted a dechristianization movement to ... The phrase the left implies the left are some kind of homgenous mass. All of the left attempted a dechristianization movement? (simply read the linked article Enlightenment) What relevance the ramblings of an anarchist have I will leave to others to decide. Such edits seem to be what the editor thinks leftists are and are not an encyclopedic description of leftist thoughts or tendencies. Such edits contravene Commandment 5: Do not post personal opinion on an encyclopedia entry.

WhatIsG0ing0n 15:15, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

What is unfortunate is we reached the pot-of-gold at the end of the leftist rainbow in 1989 with the collapse of Communism. Now we see all these definitions are problematic, but certain editors wish to hold to them. So they just need to be balanced with the factual record of leftist accomplishments. RobS 15:31, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Are you trying to say all leftists supported communism? As a consequence do you think this should be reflected in the article?

WhatIsG0ing0n 05:57, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

That is dependent upon which timeframe or era you are discussing. As we've stated, the term has been redefined several times/ RobS 12:45, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

I Made a tentative edit which makes a timeframe irrelevant.

WhatIsG0ing0n 13:41, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

RobS reverted it before I had taken my finger of the save page button.

I thought this definition:

The term 'Leftist refers to someone on the 'left' side of the political spectrum who generally supports varying degrees of social or political or economic change designed to promote the public welfare, variously in the guises of social democracy, or liberalism, the several strains of socialism and communism. It may also be applied to those or who oppose right-wing politics.

was somewhat better than:

The term Leftist refers to someone on the 'left' side of the political spectrum. Politics on the 'left' usually imply challenging the traditional system of a society, by people who believe their economic interests, or personal values, or political rights are not supported by the traditional ruling institutions. Of course, it is obvious that there is not just one dimension of political thought, so that people can unambiguously be classified as 'right' or 'left'. Nonetheless, the left/right description of the political spectrum theory still has wide currency.

What can others add, what do they think?

WhatIsG0ing0n 14:03, 16 April 2007 (EDT)