Talk:National Bolshevism

Did Ruth Fischer also try creating a National Bolshevik movement in Berlin?

According to War History Online:

The red-brown alliance was strong in Berlin where it had been a long-standing strategy. As far back as 1923, the leader of the KPD in Berlin, Ruth Fischer, had given a speech to fascist college students and attempted to appeal to them with abhorrent antisemitism, declaring that, “Those who call for a struggle against Jewish capital are already class strugglers… You are against Jewish capital and want to fight the speculators. Very good. Throw down the Jewish capitalists, hang them from the lamp-post, stomp on them.”

—LT ^{(Exodus 23:2)} Friday, 23:13, December 15, 2022 (EST)

I wouldn't go that far. To my knowledge she never advocated the merging of communism and fascism into a single ideology superseding both. To be a National Bolshevik you have to do that, not just talk about an alliance between a distinct red and a distinct brown.--Geopolitician (talk) 21:41, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Ah, I see. I may have to read more about Fischer in the 1920s. —LT ^{(Exodus 23:2)} Monday, 23:12, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Here's my take: Bolsheviks want to overthrow and murder "the rich"; NazBols are limousine liberals and their followers who want to placate the radicals by pretending to be sympathetic or one of them. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:19, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Nazbols as limousine liberals? Interesting analysis. The ideological leadership of these radical syncretic ideologies indeed often seem to be clever expedient ideologues with some noteworthy clout. —LT ^{(Exodus 23:2)} Monday, 23:36, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Bernie Sanders would the ideal example. While he talks a hardcore Marxist line, he drives a Lamborghini and has 3 houses. He'd be lost without capitalism. In a pure Marxist society, he couldn't make it. So he poses as a revolutionary to get to the head of the pack, probably cause he's afraid of the real Bolsheviks. He knows he'd be one of the first to face the guillotine. So by being one of them, he controls them (basically, Hitler did the same thing). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:02, December 19, 2022 (EST)

1935–91: The Cold War years

This subhead is mislabeled; the Cold war begins after the end of the WWII hot war. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:53, December 16, 2022 (EST)

I have an idea to fix it. Revert it if you disagree. RobS^{Give Peace a chance}

Your adjustment seems constructive, particularly since this large article ought to serve as a portal page. However, if you're going to link to the page on the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact without any information in the subsection you added, perhaps the page on the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact could be drastically expanded; you probably know more about the topic than I do. —LT ^{(Exodus 23:2)} Saturday, 23:10, December 16, 2022 (EST)

Yah, Molotov-Ribbentrop has several problems, beginning with its three different names, 'Hitler-Stalin', 'Soviet-German', etc. It's back in the news now, since Angela Merkel#Minsk Accords duplicity confessed to a Nazi crime against peace that former German foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop was hung for. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:16, December 16, 2022 (EST)

Thank you for fixing it, RobS.--Geopolitician (talk) 21:39, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Intermarium

Wiipedia map of Mitteleuropa.

There's no discussion of the Intermarium ('between the seas', Baltic and Black seas) which is the concept Ukrainian Nazis are struggling for - a rejection of both Brussels and Moscow leadership (it entails a unification of portions of the Baltic States, Belarus, Poland, and the territory of Ukraine).

Also, some the Duggin info may have to be vetted for Polish intelligence disinformation, which has been a driving force behind NATO and the Ukraine war. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:16, December 16, 2022 (EST)

One story getting no coverage right now is Ukraine efforts to murder NATO ally Poland's top law enforcement official just yesterday. [1] This evidently are Ukrainian Nazis upset that Poland is not onboard with the Intermarium. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:20, December 16, 2022 (EST)

Poland is very much onboard with the Intermarium project. After all, the entire concept originated as a Polish nationalist idea. Although, to be fair Poland's vision for Intermarium is somewhat different from Ukraine's. As in it is nothing more than a revived Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, consisting of the territories of Poland, Lithuania, Ukraine, and Belarus.--Geopolitician (talk) 00:28, December 19, 2022 (EST)

Yes, that's all true. But it's way more complicated for Poland. It would mean having to break the EU & NATO alliances, so it's easier for Ukrainian Nazis to achieve. In both cases, Poland and Ukraine, NATO & the US is being used to achieve their ultimate end - destruction of the Belarus state and borders, and weakening Russia. IMO, many NATO and EU leaders see this, but it's being hid from the public. They figure both states in the end (given their dream of victories over Russia) will have to be grabbed by the ears and dragged into the Western alliance. But for Intermarium proponents, destruction of Belarus is part of the longterm plan (big high-level meeting in Belarus tomorrow with Putin and Shoigu, probably an announcement on further integration and knocking down the border. Belarus may need FSB help in countering the ongoing NED/regime change coup plot). RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:16, December 19, 2022 (EST)

Poland is probably investigating Ukrainian Nazi refugees who have plans other than NATO or the EU's. Just a theory, however; the Zelensky regime of course is going to claim the Polish official really is a Russian agent. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:22, December 16, 2022 (EST)

Hopefully Amit Sengupta will cover this topic extensively on YouTube if not already so. His analyses are the de facto gold standard. —LT ^{(Exodus 23:2)} Saturday, 23:25, December 16, 2022 (EST)

Here's a Deutsche Welle report from 2017 where Azov claims they are not Nazis, but rather fighting for the Intermarium. [2] This actually show the duplicity of NATO & the EU, cause they know these Ukrainians are not fighting for the EU, NATO, and 'democracy'. They are being used to destroy the Russian Federation. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:41, December 16, 2022 (EST)

oh, sorry, it's not in that vid, but there is a DW vid, with that same Ukrainian woman somewhere from about that same time. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 23:49, December 16, 2022 (EST)

What does Intermarium have to do with National Bolshevism?--Geopolitician (talk) 21:37, December 18, 2022 (EST)

I'm not sure. IMO, the idea of National Bolshevism, or its in impact on various societies, is blown out of proportion. It seems to me the well-disguised Intermarium movement has a much bigger following and much more active. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:45, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Intermarium is a dream somewhat akin to Mitteleuropa, which many Eastern Europeans have never given up. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:51, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Mitteleuropa, after two World Wars, has been achieved now in the EU - excluding Ukraine. People would be surprised, if the Ukrainians won the war which not only never was possible but now Westerners are beginning to see they have been led down the garden path by the globalist/deep state propaganda media once again, that the heroic Nazis supported by the US taxpayer have no desire to join the EU. They want to dismember Belarus and portions of Lithuania to create the Intermarium. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 21:57, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Intermarium is a sub-project of the bigger "Eurasian Heartland" project which I've railed about for years. Another such sub-project is "Turania;" yet another is an unnamed, updated version of the "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere." Ironically, supporters of the "Fourth Political Theory" would be perfectly fine with the last of those sub-projects, as long as it involved a Japan that was pro-Russian, anti-American, or both.--Geopolitician (talk) 22:04, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Did you know Russia and Japan are at war right now? There never has been any peace settlement after WWII between Russia and Japan. World War II is still ongoing in the Far East, and Japan had to be reminded of that by the Russian Foreign Ministry earlier this year when the EU & Washington were pressing Japan to join the sanctions regime. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:29, December 18, 2022 (EST)

Imagine yourself being a Japanese legislator in parliament, and one day you wake up and are notified, "hey, remember that war granddad got killed in? Well, we're still at war and the other side is really pissed off." Here's the problem: In occupied Japan, at the Hiroshima Memorial Museum, it doesn't say the Americans nuked Japan. It says Russia was a member of the Allies, and the Allies nuked Japan. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:39, December 18, 2022 (EST)

This is very interesting here (see Wikipedia map of Mitteleuropa at right). "Russian parts of Poland", yah at a time when Poland did not exist. Then you wonder how people get brainwashed. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 22:19, December 18, 2022 (EST)

The map to the right explains much about the rise of the German Nazi party and Hitler's beliefs. When the Armistice was signed (Note: "Armistice" or ceasefire, not "surrender") on November 11, 1918, not one square inch of German territory was occupied. German forces were standing in France, and Germany was in possession of Ukraine (and beyond). This is what Hitler, Goebbels, and the Nazis referred to as "the Big Lie", i.e., that Germany was defeated in World War I. "You repeat the Big Lie often enough and people start to believe it." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:57, December 19, 2022 (EST)

Ukrainian NazBols

Ukrainian Nazis oppose de-communization of Ukraine. They are not pro-democracy. They like the totalitarian structure set up by the Bolsheviks. It's just a question of who runs the structure. [3] RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 01:37, December 19, 2022 (EST)

Nazis may use the slogan "National Socialist," but most of them can't be described as Nazbols because they don't aspire to be a direct ideological syncretism between Communism and Fascism (indirect syncretism such as the adoption of certain institutions isn't enough to pass the smell test). The exception(s) to this rule are the Strasserists and (arguably) the Remerists, who do have such aspirations. But as far as I know the Ukrainian Nazis aren't either of those.--Geopolitician (talk) 08:59, December 19, 2022 (EST)

Upon further reflection, I’ve decided to (when I get chance to do so) re-organize the article to sort ideologies by how “crypto” they are. As in, some of these variants can be better described as “crypto-Nazbol” where the degree of separation from either pure Communism or pure Fascism is dubious and debatable. This in turn would provide room for expansion of the topic to cover additional ideologies that haven’t yet been discussed, such as Bombaccism or Yockeyism.--Geopolitician (talk) 09:23, December 19, 2022 (EST)

Whew! What a rough last few days. Preparing for Christmas sure can be stressful. Fortunately, I didn't procrastinate this time so I have a couple days to re-structure the article before the tasks pile up again. I'll be taking advantage of that, expect changes throughout tomorrow and Friday.--Geopolitician (talk) 23:36, December 21, 2022 (EST)

Okay, since the (soft) deadline for "Conservative of the Year" is rapidly approaching, the article overhaul will have to wait until after Christmas, until after the new year. I apologize. :(--Geopolitician (talk) 20:03, December 22, 2022 (EST)

Andy just reversed my changes. I will respect his decision and apply the term Nazbol in the more broad sense in which I originally wrote the article.--Geopolitician (talk) 23:34, January 3, 2023 (EST)

Don't worry, Andy's rollback was accidental, as he mentioned when I inquired on his talk page here. He restored your edits. —LT ^{(Mark 8:36)} Wednesday, 00:28, January 4, 2023 (EST)

(ec) The meaning of the term 'Bolshevism', like 'fascism' has evolved over the decades since 1919. Just 25 years later, in 1945, when German radio announced the Fuhrer had died in Berlin 'fighting Bolshevism', it sounded quite outdated and ridiculous. Most people didn't know Bolshevism still existed. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:26, December 19, 2022 (EST)

A Russian friend just alerted me a few hours ago about the case of Gen. Mannerheim. He said straight up that Stalin appointed Mannerheim as president of Finland (a somewhat different narrative than you'll find in WP, where he assisted the Germans in planning Operation Barbarossa), So here's a guy who was in a leadership position on both sides of the fence.

Personally, I don't put much stock in an ideological basis to justify criminal activity. That's just a generalization and not a hard and fast rule. Tadeusz Borowski, a Polish writer and Auschwitz survivor summed it up: "First a man will learn to be cruel from necessity, eventually by habit, and finally for pleasure." RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 09:45, December 19, 2022 (EST)