Talk:Essay: Counseling psychology and Dumbo's feather
I think it might be worthwhile...
...to discuss the role that psychotherapy often plays in moral relativism, in that it denies the existence of "evil." The therapist is supposed to be non-judgmental, and thus, the person undergoing therapy has a guilt-free confessor without the prospect of penance. Just think of the well-publicized cases of "mob therapists."
You might also wish to include a section focusing on the misdiagnosis and overmedication of children, and the manner in which psychotherapists enable parents who wish to convince themselves that their child's behavior issues are not due to lax discipline on their part, but rather a "medical condition" that can be easily fixed with a pill. Such "quick fix" snake oil salesmanship is doubtless a contributing factor to the decline in the overall quality of education in this country.
--Benp 19:03, 21 July 2011 (EDT)
- It sound like you want me to go into the ADHD issue and other pediatric issues and that is something I am not inclined to do. For example, I don't pretend to know much about the various ways divorce and single parenting effects kids other than missing Dad's often contributing to discipline problems within the single parent households.Conservative 21:09, 21 July 2011 (EDT)
- Well, I admit that it's a big, complex undertaking. I was thinking more of focusing on the ways in general in which psychotherapy makes excuses for personal shortcomings, rather than helping people actually acknowledge their flaws, acknowledge their inability to overcome those flaws, and seek help from the One who CAN help them overcome those flaws. I think it's significant to note that one of the most successful therapy programs in the country--AA--is explicitly predicated on the idea of acknowledging personal powerlessness and placing trust in God. --Benp 23:09, 21 July 2011 (EDT)
- I don't know if it is the most successful, but it is well known. I believe their success rate is about 3-5% which doesn't sound that spectacular. I also am not fond of their "Higher power" which is rather impersonal being a mere "power". "Higher being" would be more appropriate. And God would be even more precise. My guess is that many people who are alcoholics have a rebellious/opposition personality type and so they watered it down to "Higher power".Conservative 11:43, 22 July 2011 (EDT)
- It's unfortunate, true...but I suspect that if you looked at the numbers, AA will have a higher success rate than any purely secular psychotherapy-based group. It would be interesting to have a three-tier comparison: purely secular psychotherapy, groups like AA which make limited use of the principles you've described here, and Christian counseling programs. --Benp 11:50, 22 July 2011 (EDT)
- I didn't know relying on psychotherapy was so unBiblical. After reading this "essay" I'm convinced my autistic daughter needs better help so she doesn't scream and thrash in public when people get too close to her, touch her, or make eye contact while speaking to her. Would you recommend a protestant minister over our family priest? Maybe my wife hasn't been doing a good enough job as a layman after 8 years of homeschooling and should try harder. I look forward to your sage insights. Nate 13:08, 22 July 2011 (EDT)
- I have a family member who has benefited from AA: the key there (apparently) is the non-judgmentalism. This allows the person to stop judging themselves, thus bottling up and hiding their sins...no healing (nor, indeed, forgiveness) can occur unless and until all things are out in the "open", (fifth step), only then can healing begin.
- It is a process not an event and if it occurs through a group setting or one-on-one counseling, who cares...there is a time when it is better to listen without finger pointing and telling the person that they are sinners; they know that already and are shamed by it. Take away the shame and then they are able to actually deal with their core issues. AsherL 14:02, 22 July 2011 (EDT)
- I didn't know relying on psychotherapy was so unBiblical. After reading this "essay" I'm convinced my autistic daughter needs better help so she doesn't scream and thrash in public when people get too close to her, touch her, or make eye contact while speaking to her. Would you recommend a protestant minister over our family priest? Maybe my wife hasn't been doing a good enough job as a layman after 8 years of homeschooling and should try harder. I look forward to your sage insights. Nate 13:08, 22 July 2011 (EDT)
- It's unfortunate, true...but I suspect that if you looked at the numbers, AA will have a higher success rate than any purely secular psychotherapy-based group. It would be interesting to have a three-tier comparison: purely secular psychotherapy, groups like AA which make limited use of the principles you've described here, and Christian counseling programs. --Benp 11:50, 22 July 2011 (EDT)
- I don't know if it is the most successful, but it is well known. I believe their success rate is about 3-5% which doesn't sound that spectacular. I also am not fond of their "Higher power" which is rather impersonal being a mere "power". "Higher being" would be more appropriate. And God would be even more precise. My guess is that many people who are alcoholics have a rebellious/opposition personality type and so they watered it down to "Higher power".Conservative 11:43, 22 July 2011 (EDT)
- Well, I admit that it's a big, complex undertaking. I was thinking more of focusing on the ways in general in which psychotherapy makes excuses for personal shortcomings, rather than helping people actually acknowledge their flaws, acknowledge their inability to overcome those flaws, and seek help from the One who CAN help them overcome those flaws. I think it's significant to note that one of the most successful therapy programs in the country--AA--is explicitly predicated on the idea of acknowledging personal powerlessness and placing trust in God. --Benp 23:09, 21 July 2011 (EDT)
Metaphor issue
Wouldn't the mouse convincing Dumbo that he doesn't need the feather to fly be an example of "counseling psychology"? Actually, if I recall, Dumbo didn't believe he could fly and wouldn't have tried until the mouse told him he had a magic feather.--IDuan 15:59, 20 August 2011 (EDT)
- In the Dumbo story, was the mouse a layman or did he have specialized "training" in counseling psychology psychobabble? :). Also, did Dumbo say: "Get me back my feather. Please, please! Gimme, gimme, gimme. I need, I need. I need. I need." :) Conservative 16:43, 20 August 2011 (EDT)
