Talk:Essay:Pat Tillman was not an atheist

Your logic is very questionable. You're saying "We have to disregard the fact that Tillman said he was an atheist, because what he did does not fit my perception of atheists." You're wrong. You have to disregard your perception of atheists, because when you actually look at who atheists are, you see that they do not fit a mold. Atheists can be drug dealers, or, as Pat Tillman so beautifully proved with his life - heroes. And if you would honestly throw out everything that Tillman did if he was an atheist (in spite of the fact he died for this country, you say that if he was an atheist, he'd be a "leftwing zero") then it is you who are the zero.--PatrickTom 22:16, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Nobody changes right? At 16, his convictions for life are atheism, yeah right. Not my perception, it is the fact what he did after that point. All atheists are zeros, getit? By what he did and acted, he never was one. At the very least, he was agnostic. You are wrong, to bad for your atheist trophy is now tarnished.--Jpatt 22:25, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

All atheists are zeroes? So if Tillman were an atheist - you would trash the fact that he died for this country. Again - it is your mold that does not fit atheists; as I said, atheists can be drug dealers - or they can be heroes. If you are so naive to believe that everyone who is an atheist must be a bad person - than you should grow up - and until you grow up - why don't you not accuse any American soldier of being a liar. You have tarnished your own trophy.--PatrickTom 22:30, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Patt I agree with Tom here. I think the fact that you would call Tillman a zero if he was an atheist is pretty outrageous. Please clarify that statement.--IDuan 22:38, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

It's my essay, PatTom just has hurt feelings like a baby. A great warrior, a tremendous athlete, a friend to many, a strong willed individual. If an atheist- add zero to the list. What is wrong with saying that, taboo? Tillman wasn't, no matter how hard they try and make him appear that way. --Jpatt 22:45, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Oh I think I may have misunderstood. Are you saying that "If Pat TiIlman did everything he did and he was an atheist he'd be a zero" or are you saying that "If Pat Tillman was an atheist he'd be a zero, so he couldn't do everything he did"? If it's the latter, I apologize, if it's the former - then I think I would contest that because I'm not sure if it's appropriate to throw out someone's entire life just because he or she is an atheist.--IDuan 22:55, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

You can be a good person and a zero at the same time. I am not trying to win friends with my point. Ronald Reagan is the best Conservative this nation ever had. If Ron was an atheist, I would say he was the best conservative this nation ever had and a zero.--Jpatt 23:01, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

Hmm, I mean that's an interesting thought I suppose - I did misunderstand at first - I thought you were saying that if you were an atheist, you were nothing BUT an atheists - so I apologize for that, but I suppose it is worth discussing. I mean, atheists are ignoring what is really overwhelming evidence - I'm not sure if I'd call them a zero though. I would call people who spread atheism zeroes, I would just feel bad for people who are more agnostic--IDuan 23:06, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

P.S.: Arguments are never supposed to make friends :) - I do respect you a lot for making the argument - because clearly it inspires some backlash from people like "Tom" (and as we discuss more I'm finding that I agree with you more - so it's apparently an effective argument).--IDuan 23:10, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

The Truth is a double edged sword. An essay is only my op. Thanks for your input.--Jpatt 23:16, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

I’m going to have to burst your bubble here. I’m a PFC in the Army, currently deployed. I also happen to be an Atheist. This essay is a disgrace. This man does not fit into your highly prejudiced notion of what an Atheist is, so you try to deal with it by forcing your own values on him. This ignorant, pathetic body of text is a direct insult to me and every other Atheist who serves in the armed forces. As terrifying as it might seem to you, there are actually quite a few of us.

“He wanted to change people and he wanted to change his country for the better.” Does that sound like an atheist to you?”
“How many atheist do you know would sacrifice their life for their country? For others? Selfless is not an atheist quality.”

Have you ever even met an Atheist? Have you ever conversed with one about their views? “Atheist” is an extremely broad term used to describe people with a wide variety of belief systems and moral values, having only one thing in common – denial of the supernatural. You clearly need to get out of your sheltered little world full of people who think the same and learn a thing or two.

Tyson Friday, October 2, 2009 17:04 (GMT)

Thanks for the advice Tyson but someone with such flawed reasoning such as yourself is not capable of the right answer. One percent of America is atheist, I guess some could end up in the military. Most likely for "self" reasons and not for their support of religious countrymen. Gary Smith claims Tillman came full circle for the support of gays. But somehow, he could not have come full circle on the support of God? I don't buy it.--Jpatt 13:21, 2 October 2009 (EDT)

What bothers me about someone like you, Tyson, is that when you go about preaching your own religious beliefs to your fellow soldiers, they get sent to hell when they die. Period. You claim there is no God, now you prove it. Prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt instead of making your silly rants here. Karajou 14:03, 2 October 2009 (EDT)

Exactly. Someone like "Tyson" is a disgrace to the uniform Pat Tillman lived and died to honor. DanielPulido 14:13, 2 October 2009 (EDT)

Ha, delete my stuff instead of responding huh? Next step is to get me banned I guess. This is a talk page, I'm not being offensive and I haven't even edited the article or anything. Does anybody really think that's a healthy way to operate, trying to silence different opinions?

Actually there are thousands, possibly tens of thousands, of atheists in the US Armed Forces and from what I've seen they're just as patriotic as anyone else. They're wrong about God but that doesn't make them bad people and it CERTAINLY doesn't make them a disgrace to their uniform. --SamCoulter 12:17, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

Tell me something, Mr. Daniel, who calls me a disgrace to the uniform and decides to delete my posts. How many times have you been sent thousands of miles overseas, to a hostile country, not getting to see any friends or family for a year or more? How many of your friends have died a violent death? Tyson Friday, October 2, 2009 at 18:55

Yes, it's a talk page, and yes you haven't edited any articles. You might do well to mind the 90/10 rule instead of endlessly ranting and raving on talk pages. And while I'm tempted to ignore completely your ad homs against me, I'll at least do them the dignity of noting that I'm not the subject of discussion here. Pat Tillman was, until you chose to make it yourself. And then you cry and whine when people take you up on what you started and you go and try to change the topic again? I don't think you're fooling anyone here. I won't be wasting any more time responding to your rants. DanielPulido 15:12, 2 October 2009 (EDT)

Tyson, thank you for capitalizing the word "Atheist". We always knew that atheism is a religion! Conservative (talk) 22:59, 26 October 2015 (EDT)

Response to former user:ebola

Tillman is exploited by atheists. His brother said he was non-religious. His brother didn't say he was an atheist and why would he hold that back?

My question wasn't show me an atheist in the military. My question was show me a person of his character and convictions that is an atheist. The military atheist website you point to is a fraud. I understand, so few atheists heros in the world that it is only natural to latch on to Tillman. The website cherry-picks much. They quoted Tillman's wife, paraphrasing, a chaplain came up to her and started saying a prayer and she stopped him because she was trying to think. Ohhh, such a slam against the faith. Please, she is in mourning at that moment but the website found it relevent. Anyway, show me a person that thoroughly rejects God but is compelled to read book upon book of religion.

I will leave you with a quote from Pat Tillman.

"Passion is what makes life interesting, what ignites our soul, fuels our love and carries our friendships, stimulates our intellect, and pushes our limits... A passion for life is contagious and uplifting. Passion cuts both ways... Those that make you feel on top of the world are equally able to turn it upside down... In my life I want to create passion in my own life and with those I care for. I want to feel, experience and live every emotion. I will suffer through the bad for the heights of the good."

Please explain the atheist version of soul.--Jpatt (talk) 20:09, 26 October 2015 (EDT)