Talk:Essay:Characteristics of Homeschoolers

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I have provided two references for one of the "characteristics". Readers should keep in mind that, much like private schools, homeschools vary widely, from structured programs featuring Christian curriculum packages from companies like ABeka and Bob Jones University, to free-wheeling "unschooling" based on the work of A. S. Neill and John Holt. Because of this, it is hard to make generalizations about homeschoolers. When looking at studies, careful attention should be paid to the makeup of the study population to determine whether it is a random, representative cross-section of the homeschooling population or a more specific subset.

  • Vote at a rate three times the rate of those educated in public school - I believe this statistic comes from the work of Brian Ray, but I could not find a reference. It would be nice to include one if it is available.
  • Develop a greater reliance on logic than on "because the teacher says so" - I think this is true of many homeschoolers, but I think it depends on how they are taught by their parents (and other teachers) -- whether the curriculum they use encourages independent, critical thinking; teaches how to research, how to determine the reliability of sources, and how to analyze information; and encourages students to weigh the evidence from various points of view. Sadly, some popular homeschooling courses and materials do not use this approach, but instead rely on "because the teacher says so". (Of course, the same could be said for some public and private school courses and materials.)
  • Less desire to "fit in" - I think this is true, though it is hard to quantify. Homeschooling parents themselves have chosen a minority path in educating their children, thus setting an example that "what everyone else does" does not have to the be only choice.
  • Superior knowledge of the Bible - Is there a study about this that can be cited? Students who go to Christian or Catholic schools often come out with a strong knowledge of the Bible. Certainly any program, homeschooling or private schooling, that includes daily bible study or religion class will produce students with a superior knowledge of the Bible than a program that does not. (Public school students raised in a devout home may also gain a good knowledge of the Bible, but they are likely to have less time to spend on it.) Of course, not all homeschoolers include daily Bible study in their curriculum, especially if they are not Christians.

--Hsmom 23:05, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

Hsmom, your citations on the point about being self-employed are superb! That alone can justify homeschooling.
I'll address the rest of your valid points as soon as I can, probably tomorrow. However, I don't think these characteristics are curriculum-dependent. Academic excellence would be dependent on curriculum, but things like "less desire to fit in" would be a correlation regardless of curriculum, I think.--Aschlafly 23:31, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
Thanks! By the way, when you provide references, could you put in the full citation? You know, title, author, name of web site, etc. It takes a few seconds, but it is much easier to cut-and-paste these from the site when the original reference is made than to go in later and clean it up. I usually put the citation info before the URL, then any notes about the reference afterwards (you can see how I did the ones on this page), but I don't think there's any kind of standard here. I think it really sets a great example for the students here. Thanks! --Hsmom 23:41, 16 October 2008 (EDT
Excellent suggestion about citations. Sorry, I'll try harder! :-)--Aschlafly 23:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

"Object of scorn by those trained in formal school, but no reciprocal animosity"

I think that "no reciprocal animosity" would be hard to prove, in that at least on this webpage there are numerous examples of open disdain for public schoolers. This old homework assignment is an excellent example of an unnecessary potshot. The article on public schools reads like a scene from Lord of the Flies, and in grading this student's homework you worked in another unnecessary potshot, although I agree that student is likely a parodist. I therefore think it is highly unlikely that there is no reciprocal animosity. Corry 23:12, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

No, none of your examples reflects any animosity by homeschoolers against public schoolers. Nor does the McClellan v. Lincoln example reflect any reciprocal hatred by Lincoln of McClellan.
I've taught over 150 homeschoolers and never seen any animosity towards public schoolers. Rather, the homeschoolers have often defended public schoolers when I've criticized them. The same cannot be said of the attitude of public schoolers toward homeschoolers, some of which has been seen on this site.--Aschlafly 23:22, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
If that's the response you've received from your students, then I believe you regarding them. Regarding McClellan and Lincoln, I would think that there would be no comparison to today's homeschooling, as I doubt Lincoln was being homeschooled due to ideological disagreements over school prayer and evolution. If McClellan was scornful of Lincoln's educational background, it was probably more of a class divide than anything, similar to how some people will look down on those who went to a state college as opposed to an Ivy League school. Corry 23:35, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
You don't have to take my word for it. You can look at behavior on this site and elsewhere. You can look at portrayals in the media.
As to McClellan and Lincoln, I don't think class divide explains it (Lincoln was probably wealthier than McClellan, and McClellan was not an Ivy Leaguer). I doubt McClellan showed such disdain for others. I also don't see the relevance about motivation for homeschooling in your argument.--Aschlafly 23:48, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
Actually, didn't McClellan go to Penn before USMA? I think the motivation is very relevant for you to compare your idea of McClellan having animosity for Lincoln due to his being homeschooled to animosity that you perceive today. You cite your idea in this essay, and as such are attempting to draw a comparison between the two. Similar motivations could make the two situations comparable. I don't think that a comparable motivation exists, however. You, for example, advocate homeschooling primarily for disagreements over things such as school prayer, the teaching of evolution, and sexual education. I doubt that similar reasons were why Lincoln was homeschooled. McClellan very well may have thought that Lincoln was undereducated, but I doubt that he had issues with homeschooling for the same reasons that some people today do. Corry 12:09, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
Both then and now people who are formally schooled tend to look down on, and even have animosity towards, people who are homeschooled. Bigotry is bigotry. You seem to be trying to draw a distinction between one form of bigotry as opposed to another, and that's a fool's errand.--Aschlafly 11:41, 18 October 2008 (EDT)
You use the McClellan/Lincoln example as a citation in your essay, and therefore you're drawing a comparison between McClellan allegedly looking down on Lincoln's education and the animosity you perceive from non-homeschoolers for homeschoolers. I think they're two incomparable situations. Also, calling disagreement with homeschooling "bigotry" seems too strong to me. You disagree with public schools, and I certainly wouldn't call you a bigot for that. Corry 15:44, 18 October 2008 (EDT)