Talk:Cruzites

Ouch!

This article seems a bit harsh! First of all, those who support Cruz rarely support "the establishment." Form the beginning, Cruz has been supported by conservatives, while others like Kasich were supported by "the establishment." Only now that they see either Trump or Cruz are going to win has "the establishment" begun to back Cruz, as a last-ditch effort to stop Trump. However, Cruz is hated by most congressmen because he does not cave, but stands his ground as a conservative. The only major "leftist tactics" that I know of were the announcing of another candidate dropping out before the first primary. As he explained, this was officially published by a news company (I forget which one) before he said this, and he was only quoting this. Other than this what liberal tactics were used?
I will agree on the question of being a natural-born citizen...I don't think he qualifies--then again, neither does Obama. Does this alone mean he should not be voted for? I honestly don't know, but from what I've seen, he is a strong (though somewhat less malicious) conservative.
That said, I'm a little concerned about how he flip-flopped on abortion, but unlike Trump, he can explain his reasoning. I don;t know who is better for sure, but it seems a little harsh to have an attack article like this posted as fact. --David B (talk) 08:51, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Appreciate your insights about this. But I don't agree that the principal reason that Cruz is disliked by his colleagues in the Senate is because Cruz "does not cave." Jeff Sessions is more conservative and he is not disliked as Cruz is.

Some Cruzites are engaging in leftist tactics, as witnessed in the recent Colorado delegate fiasco. Also, why is Cruz staying in the race if he is opposed to the Establishment??--Andy Schlafly (talk) 10:57, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

You didn't go far enough with your attacks on Cruz, Andy.--Geopolitician (talk) 13:54, 9 March 2020 (EDT)

The main reason why Cruz is hated is because is because of his pugnacious flareups which is is often combined with a high degree of persistence. For example, calling Mitch McConnell a liar on the Senate floor. And sticking to his guns in a budget battle through a fillibuster.

Colorado was a case of Cruz have a better ground game and the establishment changing their rules in the past to insulate themselves from populists. I don't think it is a case of leftist tactics. I don't think Colorado has had a flood of illegal immigration or legal immigration. Cruz does better in states where there hasn't been a lot of illegal/legal immigration.

New immigrants generally vote left/Democrats which is probably the number one reason why many conservatives like Trump. If most immigrants voted Republican/conservative, I don't think conservatives would have a problem with historically high immigration levels (As long as it wasn't from Muslim countries due to the Islamic terrorism issue). Also, where there is high levels of immigration, there is less assimilation.

Ann Coulter thinks her book on immigration had an effect on Trump. But Trump probably has seen the anti-immigration wave around the world in various countries and in the USA. My guess is that anti-immigration sentiments picked up after the 2007/2008 financial crisis and due to high youth unemployment caused by many young people picking bad majors (and a tougher job market in many cases). Conservative (talk) 11:55, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

One can reach separate judgments about a candidate, his campaign leadership and his voters/supporters. The personal political judgment and temperment of Cruz can be questioned. His campaign leadership and ground game have been excellent. The people who claim to be his supporters probably are driven by a wide variety of motivations, and some are more "anti-Trump" than "pro-Cruz". JDano (talk) 12:23, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

I think Coulter is right about the Establishment being able to deflate the Trump balloon if they really wanted to. But Establishment Republicans are less populists because new immigrants reduce the cost of labor. So Trump remains the leading candidate. Conservative (talk) 12:28, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Leftist tactics cannot simply be excused as a better "ground game." The use of deception, bullying, complete disregard for the voters, and insincerity - such tactics are part of the problem, and what conservatives stand against.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 12:44, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

I think Coulter is right about the Establishment being able to deflate the Trump balloon if they really wanted to. But Establishment Republicans are less populists because new immigrants reduce the cost of labor. So Trump remains the leading candidate.

Also, Cruz could do better on the honesty/sincerely front.

Trump can be a bully, but he is also more of a salesman than Cruz and can better smooth things over. Being a salesman/promoter/marketer, Trump can be more likeable to Cruz to various people. He can be more charming than Cruz. Likeability is one of THE leading assets of a politician - especially in an age of television/videos. It enables people to emotionally connect with a candidates and causes them to be more willing to listen to them.

So far, Cruz has not been Trump's biggest enemy. Trump's biggest enemy has been himself. He needed to be better prepared in terms of the delegate courting game. Also, his statement about Carly Fiorina's face being ugly, the character and persistence of his attacks on Megyn Kelly after her question at the Fox debate and his comment about the size of a particular part of his anatomy caused his unfavorable numbers to go up.

Trump should have just laughed off his comments about Rosey O'Donnell (which he did) and then chalked up his other comments about women to being an entertainer then and dropped the issue. He probably could have saved a lot of women votes if he had done that. Instead, the whole woman issue persisted for many news cycles. He finally smartened up though and now has a policy of detente with Kelly. I think many people are turned off when a man engages in needless battles with a woman. Traditional gender roles dictate that men protect women. Conservative (talk) 13:17, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Trump, to his credit, is maturing as a politician in terms of his political skills. Sean Hannity said that Trump needed to mature as a candidate and he faced a crossroads. Since Hannity said that (which was fairly recently), he seems to be doing much better. He solved the Kelly problem and is beefing up his ground game. I hope his maturation as a politician is not too late if he is going to be the one facing off against Hillary. Conservative (talk) 13:17, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Maybe the favorability/unfavorability ratings issue of Trump vs. Clinton will not prove to be a problem down the pike.

Hllary Clinton's unfavorability rating is on a steep incline lately.[1] Sander's comments about Hillary and the FBI investigation is taking a toll. Trump's unfavorability rating seems to be plateauing.[2]

And I think Trump and his allies will be spending more time driving up Hillary's unfavorability rating. Right now, Trump is letting Sanders and the FBI investigation do the main work in terms of driving up her unfavorability ratings.Conservative (talk) 13:50, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

An interesting book you two have written for me :)

Andy, you may be right that his refusal to cave may not be the only reason he isn't liked, but I think that and staying out of cronyism has a lot to do with it. I think Cruz is staying in the race--as he has said--in hopes of winning by contested convention.

I think trump is winning because he is likable, but also because he throws political correctness out the window, along with common courtesy. The voters don't mind that he's this way; most of them hate the whole lot of politicians, and easily side with someone who's roughing them up a bit. I can't say I'm really opposed to this either. Cruz, however, is trying to be a little more gentile, and proper in his campaign--and getting pounded for it.

Trump might be good, but I find some of his past questionable. He used to be pro-abortion (though that was years ago that such a stance was taken), and he's the subject of five (or so) lawsuits over "Trump University" which has the unique problem of lacking a university--The whole thing was a scam.

If Cruz was really the friend of the establishment, why would he be under attack from so many sides, why are officials publicly announcing that they will vote for Hillery rather than Cruz, and why do "accidents" like the turning off of Cruz's microphone happen?

Honestly, I have yet to see anything other than Cruz's sudden change on aborting to dissuade me from voting for him, which I plan to do. --David B (talk) 14:20, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Phyllis Schlafly was right to favor Trump over Cruz

Phyllis Schlafly was right to favor Trump over Cruz.

Cruz can't win any of the Northeast elections against Hillary Clinton. Cruz is going to get slaughtered in the next batch of post NY northeast primaries and would get slaughtered in a generation election against Hillary.

And Trump takes a harder line on illegal immigration, restricting Muslim immigration and would probably revamp the legal immigration policy so it less likely favors Democrats. I think Muslim terrorism is going to increase over time due to radical/fervent Muslims having more children than the rest of the Muslim population.

Some countries often want immigrants to bring more to the table in terms of investment/skills. For example, to move the Bahamas and become a permanent resident, they ask that you invest $250,000 into the Bahams economy if memory serves(Unless of course you are marrying a citizen).

Since the mid 1960s, America has a general trend of shifting to the left and illegal/legal immigration is probably the main cause (immigration policy changed in the 1960s). Conservative (talk) 15:06, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

I agree that immigrants are a large part of this shift, which is why to left pushes so hard for this. Trump has talked about closing the boarders for sure, but so has Cruz. The only difference is that Cruz has not suggested a temporary ban on all Muslims form entering the country. Of coures this made the MSM hysterical, but a lot of people knew that he was right. It's a funny thing how effective it is to ban your sworn and active enemy who wants nothing more than to kill you from entering your country.

This is another area Cruz is weaker on--the selection of those allowed to enter based on racial/religious properties. --David B (talk) 15:33, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Trump has momentum now and this will continue while he is in the Northeast. That momentum will probably get him nomination.

While I am not a fan of gambling, John Stossel's election betting odds (where people put their money where there mouth is) says Trump has a 64.5 percent chance of winning the nomination.[3]

So much political punditry and political scientist predictions as far as who is going to win an election is based on a person's ideology/partisanship, emotion, demographic characteristics (especially in an age of identity politics) and a person's economic interests that people having to put their money where their mouth is bring some realism to the question. The pundits and political scientists have often been wrong about the potential of Trump's political success - especially in the beginning. Conservative (talk) 15:39, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

When I was less knowledgeable about politics, I thought Boehner's assurance that Romney had a strong ground game in Ohio had some degree of credibility and I was a little hopeful that Obama might lose the election although it didn't look great by any means. Looking back. it was bluster and/or wishful thinking on Boehner's part. Conservative (talk) 16:00, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Interesting. I hadn't heard of John Stossel before. You (and he) might be right. I wonder if Trump's--err--aggressive tactics will be most effective against the liberals who play dirty, but I like to think that the system still works if everyone votes for who they want. Are Cruz and I going to end up in his "Alamo"? Perhaps, but what's the worst that will happen, we get Trump? I think Cruz could still hold his ground in a presidential election, even if he doesn't leave a wake of chaos as Trump seems to good at doing. Besides, he seems to be a christian, unlike Trump.

Ultimately, I'd rather vote for who I believe is best, then if he loses, we get the next-best option. - DavidB4

Andy, you mentioned "Some Cruzites are engaging in leftist tactics, as witnessed in the recent Colorado delegate fiasco." I'm not quite sure I know what you're talking about--what are they doing? --David B (talk) 18:43, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

In Colorado and Missouri, it was appalling how Cruzites behaved in trying to grab more delegates than appropriate. To be a conservative means to oppose Leftist tactics in addition to opposing substantive liberal policies.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 23:02, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Trump and Cruz camps need to tone it down or Hillary will win. Cruz has practiced some shady tactics. Americans live in a republic and not a democracy. Trump whines too much. Reagan and Ike were classier acts. America has declined

Cruz's ethics could have been better. One or more of his anti-Rubio adverts got pulled by the FCC due to its false claims. His past campaign manager could have had better ethics and was fired.

Americans live in a republic and not a democracy. If Americans lived in a democracy, Cruz would have received about 14.5% of the delegates in NY and Trump would have gotten some delegates in Colorado. Trump should stop whining.

I think Reagan had it right that Republicans should endeavor to be as civil as possible with each other. I think the Cruz/Trump camps need to tone down their hostility towards one another. It is going to be a very tough battle to beat Hillary as it is.

I think the Trump whining and the Cruz's shady tactics reflect that American society has gone downhill. Reagan, Eisenhower and Coolidge were not whiners and were classier acts. The baby boomer generation has not elected excellent leaders by in large. Conservative (talk) 00:20, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

Hannity and Michael Savage are helping conservatives. I am boycotting Megyn Kelly. Savage says conservatives are not going to be entirely happy with any of the current Republican candidates who are running. Savage is right about this

Shaun Hannity is doing a great job in getting the candidates air time. And he is not savaging any of the candidates. Michael Savage is favoring Trump but not ripping apart Cruz. And Savage rightly points out that none of the Republican candidates are going to give conservatives everything they want. Savage thinks Trump will keep conservatives happy about 60% of the time. Given Trump's comment today about North Carolina making the wrong decision not to allow transgenders into the opposite sexes bathrooms, Savage (a Trump supporter) said Cruz takes the right position on this.

As far as Megyn Kelly, while it can be argued that she was "just doing her job" and asking a tough question, given the problems the USA is facing, how important is it that Trump called Rosy O'Donnell a "fat pig"/slob? The whole Kelly thing may cost Trump the election if he is nominated. I think she is a feminist and I am not going to watch her anymore. Conservative (talk) 23:58, 21 April 2016 (EDT)

Wait, Trump said WHAT? Good grief! I'm definitely not voting for him in primary!

Savage is probably right, though I stopped listening to him after he was repeatedly calling Christians insensitive idiots. --David B (talk) 00:46, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

Trump is more apt to revamp immigration policy. If this is not done, America will drift more and more to the left. I think it is a case of political triage. Is Cruz committed to building a wall? I doubt it. Cruz has hardened his stance on immigration post Trump.[4] I think this was a matter of political convenience and not due to conviction. if you want America to stop drifting to the left, then immigration is the number one issue (Again, political triage).

I doubt Trump would elect good Supreme Court Justices in light of his remarks about bathrooms/transexuals and given his past. I have doubts about his commitment to social conservatism. Reagan had libertarian leanings and I think Trump's libertarian leanings are stronger than Reagan's. Reagan's appointee Justice Sandra Day O'Conner could have been far more pro-life and she believed in a "right to abortion". If Trump doesn't pick good Supreme Court Justices, America would still drift to the left. Essentially, if Trump was elected, America would become more libertarian and nationalistic. Is Trump better than Hillary? Absolutely.

Next, I am not sure American politics is fixable. America might need to see hardship and then reform itself.

Lastly, after today, I think I am going to stop commenting on this election given my present priorities. And I am far less hopeful that a good candidate will be elected at this point. I think my time could be better spent. Conservative (talk) 02:04, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

That sounds like a reasonable argument. I don't know what to think about Cruz and the wall, but as you said, I'm pretty sure he'll pick a better justice, which might almost be more important at this point. With our schools farming liberals by the thousands, you might be right--we need to be reminded of how bad in can be and how good it was before we can start fixing it.

Fell free to discontinue discussion--you're right, there are better things than can be done than this. I only started this whole thing because this article seemed (and still seems) a bit harsh for a stub with no citations whatsoever. --David B (talk) 01:35, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

I disagree. Given the volume of current immigration and the socioeconomic and cultural makeup of the current immigrants, American immigration policy will have a greater effect on politics shifting to the left. During times of high immigration, there is less incentive for immigrants to assimilate. If they don't assimilate, they will probably vote for the same failed policies that caused their home countries to be less successful.

Also, the American Constitution was signed largely by Protestants who were far more conservative on social issues and as far as economics. Protestantism is less top down than Roman Catholicism in terms of its authority structure. If the culture shifts more and more away from the cultural heritage of the signers of the constitution, the last 60 years demonstrates that the US Supreme Court Justices will ignore the US Constitution.

Am I saying that all Roman Catholics are authoritarians? Absolutely not. Scalia was a Roman Catholic that took the US Constitution seriously. He was excellent. Phyllis Schlafly and Andy are both against an imperial judiciary.

At the same time, Roman Catholic countries are often more authoritarian. However, the Roman Catholic Church has gotten more and more decentralized in recent times. Easter Orthodox Churches are more authoritarian in their church structure and this has caused Russia/Putin to be more authoritarian. A religion's degree of authoritarianism in its church structure has an effect on its political culture. Conservative (talk) 02:09, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

Should Cruz drop out? I think he probably should

I thought about this more. Cruz should drop out. Andy is right that Cruz should drop out. The only way that Cruz can win at this point is through a contested primary.

Does Cruz think that the populist Trump supporters will support him if he wins a contested primary? If he does, this is wishful thinking on his part - especially given his weakness in the northeastern United States. Many Trump supporters will sit home. They will say that Trump was robbed. Trump would say his loss was unfair and that he was robbed. And I don't see Trump-Cruz detente happening any time soon. Yet, Trump's third party run threat is a bluff.

I know Cruz is very much wants to be president. And I realize that Abraham Lincoln won a contested primary. Yet, Trump supporters are unlikely to rally behind Cruz if Trump lost.

Will Cruz drop out? This is very unlikely. He is very persistent. Kasich will not drop out either. Conservative (talk) 03:01, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

Trump takes liberal stance on transgender issue. Cruz is more conservative on homosexuality/transgender issues. Calls for Cruz to drop out appear to be premature. Trump's pro-traditional marriage stance may be soft and not firm. Trump "evolved" and became pro-traditional marriage. But Trump better than Hillary

On the one hand:

• Donald Trump: Transgender People Should "Use the Bathroom That They Feel Is Appropriate"

"Seasoned pro-family observers will note that while Trump’s past support of abortion-on-demand (including “partial-birth abortions”) has been well-covered by the media, his radically pro-homosexual positions as a New York businessman have not. [See Randy Thomasson’s and SaveCalifornia.com’s “Presidential Scorecare on the Natural Family” comparing the remaining three GOP candidates’ records HERE.] In fact, in a 2000 interview with the homosexual Advocate magazine, Trump came out for adding homosexuality to the Civil Rights Act, but this has received barely any serious media coverage. source: Peter Labarbera :Conservative Pundit Civil War on Donald Trump

In 2000, Trump said: "I like the idea of amending the 1964 Civil Rights Act to include a ban of discrimination based on sexual orientation."[5]

On the other hand:

"On the issue of gay marriage, Donald Trump said during a November 2013 interview on MSNBC, "I think I’m evolving, and I think I’m a very fair person, but I have been for traditional marriage. I am for traditional marriage, I am for a marriage between a man and a woman.”[20]

In a March 2011 interview with The Des Moines Register, Trump said gay couples should not be allowed to marry or receive the same benefits as married heterosexual couples".[6]

But notice he uses the words, "evolving". That is the word Obama used when he flipped and become pro-homosexual marriage. I don't think Trump has firm convictions on the homosexual marriage issue. And him being fine with Bruce Jenner using the ladies bathroom adds weight to this skepticism.

Would Trump pick good Supreme Court Justices? I have serious doubts that he would, but he might. Reagan picked Sandra Day O'Connor as Supreme Court Justice and she was not pro-life if memory serves. If memory serves, she was not for overturning Roe vs. Wade.

But Trump is better than Hillary. Conservative (talk) 09:29, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

Well, I'm more certain than ever that I don't want to vote for Trump. Who cares if he'll build a wall if he'll also let the nation become so depraved that it won't be worth protecting.

Maybe his mind can be changed, I don't know. I'm honestly a little surprised that as such a politically-incorrect person he would take such a PC stance on this. --David B (talk) 10:12, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

Trump is a businessman and I think Trump's main focus would be on economic policy. He is also a strong nationalist.

I don't think Trump thinks much about social issues. His view of social issues seems to be let's not be embroiled in a lot of social issues controversy and/or I will say what I think will get me elected. If social conservatives think they will get conservative social policy from Trump, they may be disappointed. On the other hand, he seems to be getting more conservative with age. But he is already 69 years old so how much he will further change is an unknown. Conservative (talk) 10:27, 22 April 2016 (EDT)

Trump backtracks and now says transgender issue is a states rights issue. Says USA needs to focus on more important like the economy and ISIS terrorism

See: Trump backtracks and now says transgender is a states right issue. Says USA needs to focus on more important like the economy and terrorism

So Trump wants to tamp down the culture war on social issues and focus on improving the US economy and making America a safer place. Conservative (talk) 12:38, 22 April 2016 (EDT)