Talk:Christianity vs. atheism statistics

Psalm 14:1

I heard somewhere that in "..said in his heart there is no God." the translator incorrectly added the words "there is," and that the true meaning of this verse is "..said in his heart, no, God" as if he were saying "no" to God. I don't read Hebrew, so I haven't a clue if this is correct or not. Does anyone else know?--David B (talk) 01:01, 28 April 2016 (EDT)

re: Charles Spurgeon, Psalm 14:1 and the issue of translation: https://leenakamura.wordpress.com/2007/09/01/the-fool-has-said-in-his-heart/ (Please be sure to read the comments on that post since the person is asking for feedback and received some relevant feedback)

I hope that helps. Conservative (talk) 02:58, 28 April 2016 (EDT)

Interesting, thanks! I didn't know Spurgeon was the source of that. I may still be confused, but at least I have more info on it. Perhaps dslavic is right that it's a mater of which one Spurgeon was using, I don't know. In any case, Jeff is right that both are ultimately true. Since there is disagreement on this, should we avoid confusing the topic by mentioning that the verse might mean something different? --David B (talk) 10:08, 28 April 2016 (EDT)

I am not an expert in Hebrew, but all the translations I have read do not agree with Spurgeon.

Also, one of the comments on the web page I gave you says:

"Comment by dslavich on Sep 3rd, 2007 6:10 am

Hmm… I think that Spurgeon might be reading into the text here. Hebrew does not have a form of the verb “to be”, and the insertion of it is not as subjective as it might seem when seeing the words “there is” in italics (as in the KJV, NAS, etc). Basically (and I’m very rusty/bad with my Hebrew), when no verb is present, it generally implies the form of “to be”. Every major English translation I’ve looked at has the “there is” translation. I even remember Dr. Barrick (sp?) at the Master’s College, who said that the “to be” verbs shouldn’t be italicized because they’re implied and would have been understood by fluent Hebrew speakers/readers. Greek sometimes does the same thing. However, the LXX (=Septuagint=Greek OT) inserts the “to be” verb, just like the English translations.

Basically, I think that Spurgeon makes a good point about the fool’s relationship to God (because he knew the Scriptures and had good theology), but I don’t think that this Psalm is saying what he says it is."[1] Conservative (talk) 10:14, 28 April 2016 (EDT)

That sounds reasonable, though I find it hard to disagree with Spurgeon. Unless I hear a better argument, I'll go with his. All the versions I have (NKJV, ESV, ASV, and NIV [a 19xx edition] [plus KJV, as you mentioned]) say the same. It's possible that they could all be wrong, but it does seem unlikely.

Thanks for the insights! --David B (talk) 13:15, 28 April 2016 (EDT)