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/* Salvation rules out extra-terrestrial life? */ Response to Stirlatez
:::::However, I now realize you are correct on theological terms. Now that I think about it, only descendants of Adam will inherit man's sinfulness. You've made me realize, therefore, that any extraterrestrials we may meet will be, by the very virtue of having not been born on Earth, free from [[Original Sin]]. This actually explains why we have not yet been effectively able to make contact; They have not progressed technologically beyond their extraterrestrial Gardens of Eden because they have not yet consumed the fruit from the Trees of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. This appears to be the Vatican's opinion too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7399661.stm , as well as that of [[C.S. Lewis]] as he proposed in his book [[Out of the Silent Planet]]. With everyone's sentiment I will update the article to include the opinions of those Christians. --[[User:Stirlatez|Stirlatez]] 18:35, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
"''If God created the Native Americans knowing it would be 1500 years before they could hear about Jesus, how is it different than if He created aliens in outer space knowing it would be thousands and thousands of years before they were contacted by Christians?''": One difference is that the native Americans are blood relatives of Jesus, which the aliens would not be. Jesus can take our punishment because He is our "kinsman redeemer". He can redeem us because he is our kinsman, or relative, because we are all descended from Adam and Eve. Aliens would not be descended from Adam and Eve.
"''This means that no matter where you are in the universe you will always appear to be in its center. ... For your benefit here is a concise visual demonstration of how any point in the universe can appear to be in the center: http://www.exploratorium.edu/hubble/tools/center.html.''": From the point of view of the expansion of the universe, this is correct: We ''appear'' to be at the centre, as does every other point. However, from the point of view of the [http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/1570/ quantised redshifts], we ''are'' close to the centre of the universe, and, unlike the expansion, this would not appear the same everywhere else in the universe. (The link does not even address this.) To correct TerryH slightly, I think the accurate way of putting it is that our galaxy is at ''or close to'' the centre.
"''I along with many others propose that the sheer amount of stars in the universe (70000000000000000000000000), as well as the recent confirmation of water on Mars (http://uanews.org/node/20779) is enough to more than imply existence of extraterrestrial life.''": First, the sheer number of stars being a reason to think that there is extraterrestrial life is only valid if one is ''assuming'' that life comes about by chance. If one accepts that it was ''designed'', then the number of stars has no bearing on the matter. Second, water on Mars no more improves the chances of extraterrestrial life than finding silicon on Mars improves the chances of finding computers there. Life requires ''[[information]]'', which is not found there.
"''If Occam's Razor states that the simplest scientific explanation is the most preferred...''": It doesn't. It states (and this is not accurate either) that the ''simplest explanation'' is the most preferred; it doesn't say anything about a ''scientific'' explanation.
"''...the most complicated being ever (God)...''": God is not complicated; He is not composed of parts.
"''...instead of a simple, natural, predictable process known as natural selection...''": Natural selection cannot, by itself, produce anything. Natural selection is a ''culling'' process, removing the less fit. You need some other mechanism to produce the more fit. And there's nothing simple and predictable about evolution.
"''I do not know how Occam's Razor applies to any of this since creationism is itself a violation of that very law. ... creationism can not be preferred over evolution...''": Evolution involves numerous ''ad hoc'' explanations to accommodate the facts; the alternative that God created life is by far the simpler explanation.
"''Although, there can not feasibly be an actual center of the universe because of its infinite nature, cosmologically speaking.''": As TerryH explained, Hubble chose his model for philosophical reasons in order to reject the idea that we were at or near the centre of the universe. An infinite, or unbounded, universe is an idea designed to accommodate this; it is not an observed fact.
"''I do not understand ... what the significance would be of our galaxy being in the "center" of anything.''": Hubble realised the significance: it would imply something special about us (and that didn't fit with his views).
"''...even if our galaxy was in the "center", our Earth is not in the center of our galaxy. In fact, a super massive black hole is. If you are trying to suggest that centrally located things are more important than other things, then, logically, a massive black hole is more important than all of the Earth since it is in the center of our galaxy.''": The importance of something being at the centre is based on what it is at the centre of. Being at the centre of the universe is more significant than being at the centre of the galaxy. As I said above, TerryH was slightly incorrect to claim that our galaxy is at the centre of the universe. Whilst the galaxy is ''close to'' the centre, it's ''possible'' (I'm not making any actual claims here), that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. That would make it more important than the black hole at the centre of just our galaxy. Regardless, it is clear from the Bible that we are at the centre of God's attention, and being at the centre of attention of the Creator of the universe is more significant than being at the centre of the universe He created.
"''...any extraterrestrials we may meet will be, by the very virtue of having not been born on Earth, free from Original Sin.'''": Whilst this is correct, the Bible also tells us that our sin has affected ''the whole of creation'', so our sin has affected those sinless aliens! Does that sound right? No, our sin has affected the whole of creation because God created the whole universe ''for us'', not for us and aliens.
"''They have not progressed technologically beyond their extraterrestrial Gardens of Eden because they have not yet consumed the fruit from the Trees of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.''": That was the fruit of the Tree (singular) of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, not the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Technology. Your comment appears to me to be a non-sequitur.
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 11:33, 23 August 2008 (EDT)
