The following is the present state of attempting to "edit in" to an article in Wikipedia entitled "New World Order (conspiracy theory)" information concerning Congressman [[Larry McDonald]]'s opposition to the New World Order. The Section head "Notable Opponents of the New World Order" was deleted as well as the entry concerning Cong. Larry McDonald. The story is not completed and there are still hopes, albeit not very high, that at the end the deletion will be reinstated.
==Notable opponents of the New World Order==
*Larry McDonald - Lawrence Patton McDonald (April 1, 1935 - Sept. 1,1983), a conservative Democratic member of the United States House of Representatives, represented the 7th congressional district of Georgia. He was onboard [[Korean Air Lines Airlines Flight 007 ]] when it was shot down by Soviet interceptors just west of Sakhalin Island on Sept. 1, 1983. He was the 2nd president of the John Birch Society and the only member of Congress reportedly killed by Communists during the Cold War."
"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government, combining super-capitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control ... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."[1][2]
That's not a reliable source. Please check the Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources guideline page. --Name Deleted (talk) 22:18, 2 March 2010 (UTC
Referring to the second paragraph above, I think you probably did not intend that you think that Larry McDonald is still alive. I believe that there is indeed evidence that he survived and alive at lest least until 1995, but I do not think that you intended that. Just a note, and a reason why the reaosning (in part) of that paragraph would not holdBert Schlossberg (talk) 19:28, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
Well, I am glad to see that part of what I had originally editted in has been put back - but not in the section I had orignally "Notable opponents of the New World Order". It now being in in the Round Table section makes sense as McDonald's quote does speak to that point. Yet, you have deleted McDonald's other quote concerning Quigly - "He says, Sure we've been working it, sure we've been collaborating with communism, yes we're working with global accommodation, yes, we're working for world government. But the only thing I object to, is that we've kept it a secret." when Quigly is substantially dealt with in the same Round Table section. Why is that? Another question I have, for my clarification - you are not opposed to a new section that "lists notable New World Order conspiracy theorists" (as has been deleted) but you say "we need a reliable source that states that Larry MacDonald is a notable New World Order conspiracy theorist (rather than an opponent of the New World Order) in light of the fact that this article is about the notion of a New World Order in conspiracy theory." I understand from this that you accept part of what I present of McDonald's quote and have placed it in Round Table because he is in fact, an opponent of the New World Order, but do not accept the other part because we do not have a source that says that he is a "notable New World Order conspiracy theorist." Is that right? My point in asking is this. Don't you think that that requirement is quite stringint, especially in the light of the fact that the part that is accepted and now appears in Round Table also does not have the backing of a source saying that "McDonald is an opponent of the New World Order"? That he is an opponent of the New World Order is evident from what he says. In like manner, to my way of thinking, that McDonald is a notable New World Order conspiracy theorist is evident by what he says and by who he is! In the light of all this, Mcdonald being the president of J.B.S. and member of Congress, and a sitting member of Congress at the time KAL 007 was shot down, and the only sitting Congressman ever killed (reportedly) by the Soviets during the Cold War,and a man that exerted a tremendous influence on conservatives, and in the manner of death, fueled much indignation among many, that probably swayed them toward conspiracy theory thinking, all of this (which would be gleaned from the orignal full edit I made) justifies inclusion of what has been deleted, and remains delteted, namely - "He was onboard Korean Air Lines Flight 007 when it was shot down by Soviet interceptors just west of Sakhalin Island on Sept. 1, 1983. He was the 2nd president of the John Birch Society and the only member of Congress reportedly killed by Communists during the Cold War." Besides, isn't it customary in Wikipedia to add a little bit about a person to identify him and pointing out the importance or background of a person?Bert Schlossberg (talk) 18:51, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
=None of the information about the flight, the Soviets, or the John Birch society has anything to do with the New World Order. Referring to him as a Congressman and having a wiki-link to his article is enough information for an article about New World Order (conspiracy theory). If people want to know more, they can click on his name, where they can find that info. And if you can find a reliable source that connects his death to the New World Order, then perhaps it can be added. Name Deleted (talk) 20:13, 3 March 2010 (UTC) Singling out and quoting MacDonald as arguing that there is a one-world government conspiracy (with a neutral description of who is he) is different from creating a section that lists him as a notable New World Order conspiracy theorist. As I said before, Wikipedia editors must take particular care when directly and explicitly describing persons as conspiracy theorists for legal reasons in light of how damaging such a label can be to a person's reputation. So we need a solid reliable source that explicitly describes him as a “notable New World Order conspiracy theorist”. As for his quote about Quigley, it's not important, especially since we explain how Q's work is often misinterpreted by conspiracy theorists. As Name Deleted explained, none of the information about MacDonald you want added is relevant and important to an article about New World Order conspiracy theory. --Name Deleted (talk) 22:20, 3 March 2010 (UTC) Did you find my description of Larry McDonald - "Lawrence Patton McDonald (April 1, 1935 - Sept. 1,1983), a conservative Democratic member of the United States House of Representatives, represented the 7th congressional district of Georgia. He was onboard Korean Air Lines Flight 007 when it was shot down by Soviet interceptors just west of Sakhalin Island on Sept. 1, 1983. He was the 2nd president of the John Birch Society and the only member of Congress reportedly killed by Communists during the Cold War." not neutral? Further, "'''Wikipedia editors must take particular care when directly and explicitly describing persons as conspiracy theorists for legal reasons in light of how damaging such a label can be to a person's reputation"''' This is, as you say, a restatement of what you had previously said, except in your previous statement, you have, probably by error and not reflecting your thinking, that McDonald is still living. Does what you say now also apply to someone who is dead? that is, that for legal reasons, Wikipedia must have someone who is dead decribed in the reliable literature as a "notable new World order conspiracy theorist" before listing him as such in an article?[[User:BertSchlossberg|Bert Schlossberg]] 18:21, 3 March 2010 (EST) You seem confused. The issue of neutrality is about whether or not it is appropriate to describe MacDonald as a conspiracy theorist while the problem with your description is that there is too much information in it that is irrelevant to an article about the New World Order. That being said, in light of the fact that he is dead the issue isn't so much legal reasons as much as it is one of fairness. So having a solid reliable source neutralizes any possibility of a dispute erupting in the future with some reader complaining on this talk page that it is unfair to describe MacDonald as a conspiracy theorist. Are we done? -Name Deleted (talk) 23:30, 3 March 2010 (UTC) Yes.Bert Schlossberg (talk) 00:15, 4 March 2010 (UTC) Well, this is the end of the discussion without a doubt. This whole discussion on Wikipedia, and just this discussion, has just been archived and is no longer visible[[User:BertSchlossberg|Bert Schlossberg]] 21:32, 3 March 2010 (EST) ==See Also===
*[[Korean Airlines Flight 007]]
*[[Larry McDonald]]
*[http://www.youtube.com/user/rescueKAL007#p/c/FD3DE4F0642C350C/0/1c8v-kgLvhM Ron Paul's introduction to Video of Cong.[[Larry McDonald]] on ''Crossfire'' made a few months before Larry McDonald went down with [[Korean Airlines Flight 007]]]
*[[Moneron Island]]
==External Links==
*[http://www.rescue007.org/ Website of the International Committee for the Rescue of KAL 007 Survivors]
[[Category:Terrorism]]
[[Category:Cold War]]