with such services lasting 20 mins or so. The service will be given by either the head of the school or the head of the respective years attending the service, depending on how many simultaneous services the school holds. I know this because like nearly every other person in England and Wales, when I attended school I had to attend these services twice a week, as required by law. The one thing these services aren't are 'prayer-around-the-flagpole' sorts of things, as there aren't that many schools in England & Wales that have accessible flagpoles, and nobody would want to stand around one for 20mins in inclement weather whilst the service is being carried out.--[[User:DanHutchin|DanHutchin]] 10:14, 5 July 2009 (EDT)
:Dan, you're far too literal. By "prayer-around-the-flagpole sort of thing" I obviously mean prayer that is separate and removed from classroom instruction. Your further posting confirms that fact. There is no praying at the beginning of a class, as [[Isaac Newton]] would do to inspire his scientific discoveries.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:25, 5 July 2009 (EDT)
::No, you're right that there isn't prayer at the beginning of every lesson, it would be massively disruptive to the lessons and schooling if there were prayers 8-10 times a day (consider, before prayers could start those not involved because they had a different faith would have to be removed from the classroom, the prayer would have to be held, then those outside the classroom would have to take their places again. As a standard lesson in secondary school is 30 mins long you would lose at least 5 mins of that lesson time on each and every lesson). Instead there is prayer, sermon and hymns at the beginning of every schoolday, a far more sensible solution.--[[User:DanHutchin|DanHutchin]] 12:20, 5 July 2009 (EDT)
==Wondering about something==
The article says ''"Most private schools, even religious schools, imitate government and do not allow classroom prayer. Some Christian institutions, including many Catholic schools, do allow teacher-led prayers at special school events, such as school assemblies, school sporting events, and graduation exercises, but rarely allow it in the classroom."'' I wonder if this is a regional thing? I have had kids in Catholic school, and they prayed often. They prayed at the start of school, and at the start of each class (so 7-8 times a day), and they often held mass on holy days. Every assembly and meeting open with prayer. The students pray before lunch. This is true for many of the schools in my area, including a Protestant school I'm familiar with. Even the local religious preschools pray at mealtime. Are there areas where this is not the case? Do we have enough information to generalize one way or the other? I'd love to hear from others what the situation is in their area. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 13:00, 30 August 2009 (EDT)
:[[Classroom prayer]] is very rare in formal school, even in Christian or Catholic schools (both of which, by the way, are diminishing in market share). Often people opposed to it confuse a prayer outside of the classroom, as at an outdoor or assembly event, with classroom prayer. Classroom prayer is significant because it recognizes the connection between knowledge and faith, and liberals fight tooth and nail to censor it. Thank God for [[homeschooling]], which has it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:16, 30 August 2009 (EDT)
Its not the teachers place to lead classroom prayer, it amounts to indoctrination into the teachers faith. Would you accept an athiest sitting before your children and tellng them christianity is false? For those who wish to pray nothing should be done to stop them, but teachers should always keep their religiouse (and political) views private from their pupils.--[[User:Smottram101|Smottram101]] 19:12, 5 April 2010 (EDT)
: The content and spelling of your statement looks to me like that of an atheist. Suppose everyone in the class wants to pray. Atheists still object, because they're really motivated by a desire to censor expressions of [[faith]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:53, 5 April 2010 (EDT)
::Athiests are bad spellers? [[User:HectorJ|HectorJ]] 22:00, 5 April 2010 (EDT)
:::Atheists tend to have slightly higher math/science skills -- the "scientific wannabes" -- but lower verbal skills. When someone misspells "religious", as Smottram101 did above, it's a telltale sign.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:42, 5 April 2010 (EDT)
So i added an e at the end of religious, i'm an athiest? That generalisation is stupider than me miss spelling religious in the first place, there are probably as many exeptions to that claim as there are people on the planet. My point was that it is the role of a teacher to make their students aware of different views, and allow them to decide. When a teacher is leading prayer, with the pupils having to take part or not, they put their view first. It would be just as bad for a teacher to prevent their puils from praying if they chose to do so. Allowing room for religion in schools, but not having any particular view be officially sanctioned, is the way it worked at my school, and everyone was perfectly happy with the policy.
--[[User:Smottram101|Smottram101]] 12:58, 6 April 2010 (EDT)
"It is the role of a teacher to make their students aware of different views, and allow them to decide."
Do you think schools should present to their students differing views on the origin of life, particularly intelligent design? --[[User:BenjaminS|Ben]] <sub>[[User Talk:BenjaminS|Talk]]</sub> 10:14, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
Yes, different views on the origin on life should be presented, how exactly i'm not sure, that'd be something for the school to decide, but they certainly should be covered.
--[[User:Smottram101|Smottram101]] 11:37, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
: You never answered my point: "Suppose everyone in the class wants to pray." Are you going to?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:25, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
No i wouldn't, but i wouldn't do anything to stop them from praying either, and would remain respectful and quiet while they did so. I don't want to censor anyones faith anymore than i want anyone to force a faith upon me.
--[[User:Smottram101|Smottram101]] 12:48, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
: Then you're fine with classroom prayer when everyone in the class wants to pray?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:29, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
I have no problem with students choosing to pray at any time they wish, so long as it doesn't disturb lessons. My objection is if someone is forced into prayer, or if a teacher is leading it, a teacher should keep their religious views private. There are obvious exceptions, like religious schools or church services, but for the most part a teacher should avoid showing their religious views.
--[[User:Smottram101|Smottram101]] 19:30, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
:You seem to be back-pedaling now. The reality is that atheists demand censorship of prayer in the classroom, even if everyone wants to do it. The reason is that atheists want to segregate faith from knowledge.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:27, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
I have been pondering about something recently. At least three referances that I have seen on this article ( 4-6 to be specific) are blogs written by Conservatives and Christians. I was wondering if we could get someone with sociological credit or someone who works primarily in Socialogy, psychiatry, psychology, or any such area. Because if referances should be used, shouldn't they have factual proof to back it up?
-Genuine question from the user of the name of Tony411
:"Sociology", not "socialogy"; "references", not "referances". And please be substantive in your edits. If you dispute a statement, then please address it substantively.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:48, 12 January 2011 (EST)
:Atheists tend to have slightly higher math/science skills -- when someone is or was an engineer, that is a telltale sign. What aren't you telling us, Andy? [[User:BarrySM|BarrySM]] 16:24, 21 February 2014 (EST)
::Atheists tend to be white males having only slightly above-average intelligence. Atheists are often "wannabes", attempting to appear more intelligent than they are.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:19, 21 February 2014 (EST)
==The human rights aspect==
I deleted the [[:category:Human rights]] tag, because it implies that "Teacher-led, state-sanctioned prayer" was a human right - or a matter of [[human rights]]. I think this obscures the issue at best, and could even be a liberal caricature of conservative positions. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 13:11, 21 January 2011 (EST)
:I'm not really sure what you are trying to say. But you're the expert, not me :)--[[User:AnthonyDW|AnthonyDW]] 13:13, 21 January 2011 (EST)
::Before applying the tag, I'd like to see the article clarify just what "[[classroom prayer]]" means. In general, it ought to mean ''any prayer in a classroom''. As such, it should be covered by 2 parts of America's [[First Amendment]]: [[freedom of speech]], as well as [[freedom of religion]].
::On the other hand, state-sanctioned prayer implies that students might have to say "Amen" to a prayer which violates the [[Establishment Clause]]. Suppose a Muslim teacher prays an Islamic prayer, and requires each student to kneel prostrate on a carpet facing Mecca? (An extreme case, admittedly, but what I'm trying to say is that I don't think it's commonly held by conservatives that '''all''' teachers have an unlimited right to "lead their classes" in prayer. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] <sup>[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]</sup> 13:19, 21 January 2011 (EST)
== A right? ==
Is classroom prayer a right? I believe that prayer, education, and free speech are rights, and Classroom prayer is merely the union of those three rights, so logically is it not a right (despite what the [[Liberal]]s want) as well? --[[User:AnthonyDW|AnthonyDW]] 13:12, 21 January 2011 (EST)
The majority of arguments for school sanctioned prayer that are mentioned here is, in my opinion, hypocritical. In a hypothetical situation, if school sanctioned prayer were to be made legal again, and, say, a Wiccan teacher lead a class prayer, it would likely make the news, in which case the members of Conservapedia would probably give the situation a name (such as, "The Wiccan Indoctrination Fiasco") and then proceed to push for either religious discrimination against Wiccans or the re-establishment of the "no school-sanctioned prayer allowed" law. --X. Dulks
== A liberal's point of view ==
Tbh I only came here to debate conservatives, but anyways,
You guys dont actually think that the country should sponsor enforced school prayer, right? In any context forcing classroom prayer isn't a good idea, because, obviously, religious minorities exist and they deserve the right not to pray to a god/gods they don't believe exist. And also on the topic of teachers leading school prayer, I am obviously against that as well for the reasons I already mentioned. The only way in which I would support class prayer is in the context of a student's right to pray to themselves in a session not lead by any staff.
:So it is the non-believing, atheistic, liberal minority who has to force his religious beliefs on the rest of the class, is that what your saying? Ironic, isn't it. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] ([[User talk:Karajou|talk]]) 20:40, 7 September 2016 (EDT)
::Personally I'm an atheist and I know you guys want to kill us all but not having a state-sanctioned classroom prayer isn't forcing our evil atheist communist nazist agenda on the rest of his class. Not having a classroom prayer isn't bigotry against Christians, it is simply equality for people of all religion. Secularism and militant atheism are two different things; a militant atheist teacher would try to force his atheism on his class, while one who believes in secularism (the USA is a secular state by the way) would just not have any prayer at all. I'm okay with class prayers in inherently religion-based schools though, but in terms of the average secular public school, I wouldn't.
:::The only thing you said correctly is your admitting you have an "evil atheist communist nazist agenda", and based on your repeated creation of user names involving the N-word, I would have to emphasize your racist "nazist" side of your character. Figures. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] ([[User talk:Karajou|talk]]) 09:32, 10 September 2016 (EDT)