Conservapedia:AFD Christian In Name Only

This article was created by a sockpuppet troll [1] and violates a core tenet of Christianity, Judge not lest ye be judged and To his own master he rises and falls. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 06:06, January 23, 2023 (EST)

Keep

• Keep. The article does not violate a core tenet of Christianity. See: What is excommunication in the Bible? (Matthew 18:15–17) and Does the Bible Tell Christians to Judge Not?. Also, "While the Bible denounces faultfinding, it applauds fruit inspecting (Matthew 7:15-20). “By their fruit you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:17). If a person has a pattern of wrong or hurtful behavior, that information helps us make sound decisions. “Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them” (Ephesians 5:11, NLT). While we are to “judge not” as in belittle, punish, or condemn, we are to use sound judgment as in be discerning, evaluating, and shrewd. The rest of Matthew 7 explains how to do this. Ask God to remove the prejudices that block our vision. How can we see the speck in our brother’s eye if our own vision is blocked? By allowing God to search and cleanse our hearts, we can see clearly to take the speck out of our brother’s eye (Matthew 7:3-6). Discern between the holy and the profane. When Matthew 7:6 (NASB) says, “Don’t give what is holy to dogs and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn and tear you to pieces,” Christ is not talking about the animal kingdom. Dogs and swine describe dangerous people. We must recognize the dogs and swine. Otherwise how can we protect our pearls from them? Ask God for discernment (Matthew 7:7-11). God promises “everyone who asks receives.” Look for patterns of behavior (Matthew 7:15-23; Proverbs 20:11). Paul made sound judgments based on the bad fruit he saw. The apostle judged some believers as worldly and others in the church as false believers who intended to bring the church into bondage. Paul’s judgment in discerning the spiritual condition of the saints helped him protect and instruct the church."[2] Conservative (talk) 06:36, January 23, 2023 (EST)

Okay, fair argument. But notice even you argue the focus is on actions, and not persons. So while the section about criticism of the term is good, the list of alleged suspects should probably be removed. It's only intent is to "belittle, punish, or condemn."

Let he among you without sin cast the first stone.

Alternatively, I would have no objections about passing judgment on deceased persons, Joseph Smith, for example. But living persons should be removed. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 06:55, January 23, 2023 (EST)

The problem here is, a Category was created to herd these names into. Let he among you without sin cast the first stone. It's not a good example for CP to set, and seems hypocritical. We are not the judge of who is and who isn't a Christian. To his own master he rises and falls. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 07:00, January 23, 2023 (EST)

In order for church members to follow the steps to excommunicate someone, it requires a person to be judged. See: What is excommunication in the Bible? (Matthew 18:15–17) Conservative (talk) 07:18, January 23, 2023 (EST)

In 1 Cor. the guy who was sleeping with his mother is not named; in 2 Cor. Paul says, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

Many expositors say Paul was speaking of the same guy in 1 & 2 Cor. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 08:21, January 23, 2023 (EST)

Excommunication is a biblical practice ((Matthew 18:15–17). Please look at those verses. One of the steps is a single person privately approaching him about the sin in question. If he repents, then that solves the matter. So that would cover what Paul says in 2 Cor. But if he doesn't repent, then there are more steps involved in excommunication that move forward. But at the end, if he doesn't repent, he is excommunicated. Excommunication requires believers to judge a Christian and sentence him to excommunication. That is my point. The excommunicated person is judged by Christians. Conservative (talk) 08:54, January 23, 2023 (EST)

Ah yes, the good old "real Christians don't judge" argument. There's a difference between presiding over someone as judge ready to sentence someone to punishment, and having basic discernment. Matthew 7:15-16a: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. (16) You will know them by their fruits." How can we "beware" and "know them by their fruits" if we refuse to use decrement to determine who is friend and who is foe? And yes, I did say "foe". While our foes deserve mercy and love, we need to know who is on which side, and be "wise as serpents and harmless as doves" (Matthew 10:16b). Matthew 10:11-15: "Whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy there and stay at his house until you move on. (12)As you enter the home, greet its occupants. (13)If the home is worthy, let your peace rest on it; but if it is not, let your peace return to you. (14)And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. (15)Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town". While that was a very specific set of instructions for a single time, it's pretty difficult to accomplish this without discernment.

So Keep or delete? Honestly, I don't have a strong preference either way. I think that the argument for deletion is erroneous, but I don't know how much value this page provides to our readers, either. And yes, someone should read through it carefully if we're going to keep it, to make sure everything is accurate and appropriate. --DavidB4 ^(TALK) 13:22, January 23, 2023 (EST) --DavidB4 ^(TALK) 13:22, January 23, 2023 (EST)

As Jesus said, What goes around comes around Do unto others. I doubt any of us would be happy if someone said we were not Christians. And the thing is, we don't have to prove it, either. To his own master he rises or falls. RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 13:57, January 23, 2023 (EST)

Delete

• RobS^{Give Peace a chance} 06:06, January 23, 2023 (EST)