Talk:Eternal security (salvation)
This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Dataclarifier (talk | contribs) at 15:23, October 17, 2017. It may differ significantly from current revision.
Hi, might this be better placed under the name "Eternal security," with a redirect from here to there? --David B (TALK) 09:23, 17 October 2017 (EDT)
- Also, I see your point about the category. I still don't really like it there, but I looked up the definition of heresy, and found my understanding of the word was slightly off. If you think it belongs there, then I suppose that's fine. --David B (TALK) 09:54, 17 October 2017 (EDT)
- I don't like it either, but Merriam Webster allows for the term being used to mean "dissent or deviation from a dominant theory, opinion, or practice; To disagree with the party leadership" in the secondary definition. Using this definition to defend it is a little bit of a stretch (it is a secondary meaning), but still an arguable point. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who disagrees with this category, though. I would not at all be opposed to the category being removed. I will review this issue and the new content when I have time. --David B (TALK) 10:55, 17 October 2017 (EDT)
- If there is legitimate debate over a doctrine, it should not have the "heresy" label at the bottom because the category (in the eyes of the reader) makes the article appear to take the position that the doctrine is false and thus is heresy on the level of Gnosticism and Arianism. At least, if we include this category here, we should add this category to the opposing theological doctrine (that Christians can lose their salvation), since Christians who believe eternal security probably view the opposing doctrine as a heresy. --1990'sguy (talk) 10:59, 17 October 2017 (EDT)
- The reason for my "legitimate debate" point is because while Conservapedia is very friendly towards conservative and Christians, it is primarily a politically and culturally conservative encyclopedia. It is probably not appropriate to it to take many theological positions (or to appear to take positions) on issues where religious conservatives disagree, since political conservatives have many different religious views. If my point here is wrong, please show me and I would appreciate it. --1990'sguy (talk) 11:18, 17 October 2017 (EDT)
- If there is legitimate debate over a doctrine, it should not have the "heresy" label at the bottom because the category (in the eyes of the reader) makes the article appear to take the position that the doctrine is false and thus is heresy on the level of Gnosticism and Arianism. At least, if we include this category here, we should add this category to the opposing theological doctrine (that Christians can lose their salvation), since Christians who believe eternal security probably view the opposing doctrine as a heresy. --1990'sguy (talk) 10:59, 17 October 2017 (EDT)
- Gentlemen! I appreciate your concern, but I do think you are very sensitive to a controverted issue. I was raised Disciples of Christ, then Conservative Baptist, and was active in Youth for Christ, and was one of my church's youth conversion counsellors and associate youth head of the Junior Department for 4 years 62-66. I appreciate your concern and your point. Please notice the wording I used: "There are those who reject this doctrine as a heresy." This is an historically documented fact. The text in no way says unequivocally "This doctrine is a heresy." Some of our readers will believe that. Some of our readers will strongly disagree. The article has both points of view. I am 70 years old and am fully aware of the several arguments pro and con. I know what texts of the Bible have been used for and against this doctrine. I myself have been on both sides, first one then the other. Please notice that I have provided examples of scripture supporting both sides. I included Martin Luther himself. I have also provided abundant External link sources from writers debating the issue, with direct links to their arguments. My main motive as a contributor is to fully inform the reader with Conservative Christian honesty about all sides of the issue. With that, I now have no objection to the removal of the category, if you decide to do so. It still remains that the doctrine of unconditional eternal security has been called a heresy in Christian history. May God grant each of you peace. Jonathan Edwards said, "God has yet more truth to bring forth from his word." (Pax vobis)
- Semper Fidelis. Jesus is Lord!
--Dataclarifier (talk) 11:23, 17 October 2017 (EDT)