Talk:Germany

I removed the Lonely Planet map of Germany from this site - it is a copyrighted work posted without permission.

Thank you! I just deleted the image. ~ SharonS ^Talk! 19:16, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

The whole Text was taken from Wikipedia without respecting any aspect of the the GNU-FDL, wich is a copyright violation. --Germany07 05:34, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

I deleted the first part of the first sentence in the "War on terror" section because it was not an objectively true statement and was not supported by sources in any way.

Wikipedia started their German article with "History" first, as is here. Most encyclopedic works begin with current government, area of land, education, income, and the like, and leave history for last. I suggest the same thing here. Karajou 19:32, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

I think we can expand the contemporary section, which does and should come first, but after the overall summary, I think history should come next, going up to and including the present moment. Boethius 23:19, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

CIA World Factbook

Information from this source is all PD. It's not ideal but it's a start.

I also tried to upload a map from the same source but got the error "Could not copy file "/tmp/phpxAUb49" to "/home/conserv8/public_html/images/4/4c/Germany_map.gif"."

From - https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/docs/faqs.html

"Can I use some or all of The World Factbook for my Web site (book, research project, homework, etc.)? The World Factbook is in the public domain and may be used freely by anyone at anytime without seeking permission. However, US Code prohibits use of the CIA seal in a manner which implies that the CIA approved, endorsed, or authorized such use. If you have any questions about your intended use, you should consult with legal counsel. As a courtesy, please cite The World Factbook when used."

Adolf Hitler

In the very first version of this article Adolf Hitler was listed under 'Famous Germans'. This caused some confusion. It is right that he was born in Austria, but he applied for German citizenship later, which was granted in February 1932. So should we list him as 'German' or 'Austrian'? My source is the NS-Archive in Germany [1] (German).

Since Hitler is a historical figure as a German (not an Austrian), I reinserted him in the list of notable Germans. --Hojimachong^talk 23:01, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Adolf Hitler was a dictator in Germany and should appear on historical paragraphs on this page only. It will hurt human and religious feelings calling him a famous person! I took him away from the list. Ffrree 14:04, 24 April 2007

---

(I'm not so much responding to an old post as re-raising a previous point.)

Perhaps the "Famous Germans" section should be retitled "Famous and infamous Germans"?

Philip J. Rayment 07:25, 18 November 2007 (EST)

The Reformation in Germany

This subsection is so long, and so detailed, that it derails a balanced article about Germany. It seems to be a long quote from one of Conservapedia's history lectures, but for that very reason it is not encyclopedic in tone -- it reads like a lecture. I think that a succinct description of these events might be a *part* of the main article, but such a lengthy treatment has the effect of unbalancing the whole entry and making it far less useful for reference purposes. Boethius 22:52, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Feel free to trim as you see fit. I plan on doing some trimming and adding citations in the future. --Hojimachong^talk 23:01, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Thanks, Hoji -- I have put in a relatively brief starter section here, which we can grow on our own. It's adapted from the 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica (which is PD, and also a source for WP's entry), but I've taken some care to update the phrasing and added a few additional details. Boethius 11:53, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

World War II

WWII is casually dismissed in a sentence and a half... needs some expansion, no? GodlessLiberal 21:17, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

"European power struggles immersed Germany in two devastating World Wars in the first half of the 20th century..."

I agree, apart from anything else, Germany played a rather more active role in the outbreak of World War Two than is implied in the above sentence. Orgone 21:20, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Added a table

This table can be edited to add addtional info as needed, or correct info due to elections, population changes, etc. Karajou 19:25, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Looks nice! I think this would make a good template. Unless somebody implements it in the next x hours (it's 5.40am and I really should go to bed soon), I could work on it tomorrow. --Sid 3050 23:39, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

Nevermind. Starting to get complicated, I have little time, and my motivation is at a low point right now. I still think we should have a "country-info box" template, though. --Sid 3050 13:40, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

I would think an effort has to be made on the article itself; pics and the table can come later. I'm concentrating on the US Civil War right now, and then I'll detail those pics for it. Karajou 17:32, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

Good catch

Sorry about hasty revert. [2] Maybe I should go far a walk now. --Ed Poor 19:51, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

No harm done, just two letters that needed correcting :) --Sid 3050 19:59, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

Expansion

This article could do with a lot of work. We could have it so much better, if we tried. I'll attempt some expansion of it at some point. Hans E. Mann 13:34, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

About the famous Germans

As long as they don´t have their own articles I would like to make a classification : writers, artists, sportsmen etc. Would that be ok? Toolsyoucantrust 17:00, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

That would be the best thing. That list is getting long, and will only get longer, perhaps we should think of making an article called "Famous Germans"? Bohdan 17:17, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

Currency

A newly-added section includes this sentence: "From an exchange rate of the Germany current of 3 to the dollar, it eventually fell to over 1 trillion to the dollar."

This doesn't make sense, unless perhaps the German currency was called a "current", which I doubt was the case. It seems that there should be a mention of the deutschmark in there.

Philip J. Rayment 07:22, 18 November 2007 (EST)

Typo, thank you. And I'll put in the formal name as well. Learn together 12:16, 18 November 2007 (EST)

That section was a bit simplistic, and got rephrased. Anyway, the currency was not Deutschmark (or Deutsche Mark in German) but Reichsmark. Deutschmark is post-WWII. Order 22:36, 24 November 2007 (EST)

Some comments:

• Learn Together, I did discuss the change, and I did it here, and you changing Deutchmark to Reichmark indicates that you've read this. So, don't complain that I changed it without discussion.
• The reparations that were agree upon were never fully paid.
• The hyper-inflation was only in part caused by reparations. These had to be paid in foreign currency, so printing money wasn't done to pay off these. It was done to pay domestic obligations.
• The Reichmark was introduced after the hyperinflation (I got this wrong too), to end hyper-inflation (with an intermediate currency the Rentenmark). Before the times of hyper-inflation it was simple called Mark, or to distinguish it from the Reichmark, it was called Papiermark.
• Hitler wasn't a struggling artist when he rose to power. He was a struggling artist in the 1910s. In the early 1930s he was a well known political activist and successful writer, in terms of money at least since his "Mein Kampf" sold reasonably well.
• Hitler didn't seize the power, he got power through a power sharing deal with established political forces. Of course he didn't share once he was in power. Order 18:58, 27 November 2007 (EST)

• That's not a discussion. That's saying it's simplistic and you're changing it.

• So. You could have asked why I changed it. This is how wiki's work. If you see a mistake, you change it, and if necessary start a discussion. Before you revert a change, what you did, it is customary to discuss the reversion, something you didn't do.

• The reparations were to be paid over 42 years. Of course they were never fully paid, but that's a misnomer isn't it? Discussions on postponing or changing payments occurred after Germany's financial collapse, and often did not include France. You are aware of the French occupation of the Ruhr and shooting German workers who tried to walk off the job, right? While I don't think we need to go into great detail in the Germany article, anything that whitewashes the severity of the reparations as they were put into place and implemented is counter to history.

Discussion about changing the terms were already going on before the hyper-inflation. Some even accuse that the German government made hyper-inflation happen on purpose because they wanted to proof the point at the negotiation table that the payments were unreasonable.

• Domestic economy is directly related to external conditions. One of the "nicer" terms was a 12.5% tax on all exports. If that was done in America, do you think it would have an impact on our Domestic economy even though it only deals with exports? They're all inter-related.

Sure they are. But saying that Hitler was caused by hyper-inflation, was caused by the treaty of Versailles, is just an excuse. Neither of them was inevitable.

• Hitler was a struggling artist who was able to found a movement that slowly gained power. Political movements are formed over time. Based on what you are saying above, the occupation of any person in power would always be political activist. Hitler's attempt to rise to power predated the 1930's by many years. Mein Kampf sold because he was in prison because of his earlier unsuccesful attempts at activism. And he was, in those turbulent times, one of many.

When did his struggling as an artist happened? In the 1910s. At the time of the depression he was not struggling, so it wasn't a struggling artist that got to power, but a political activist, who he made money selling his book and by donations. Just like others, indeed, but he wasn't struggling as an artist when the Depression started.

• Hitler seized power as soon as he was able.

Hitler was able to seize power, because certain people let him seize power. There was no coup, he legally got into power, partly through elections, but in the end by a deal he struck with von Papen who was a tad naive about Hitler.

• I am open for discussion on any of the word choices I made to the article, but don't just change it and have us work from your version. There was no section at all until I put one in last week. If it was a topic that you have to see written a certain way, then perhaps you should have entered it sometime during the many months it was vacant. Learn together 19:33, 27 November 2007 (EST)

I think that this the interbellum shouldn't be discussed in to much detail this article. We got articles on Weimar, Hitler, and WWII. We should keep it brief, link to those articles, and avoid the simplistic myth, that the 3rd Reich was an immediate cause of the treaty of Versailles. And I see now reason why we would be able to agree on that. Order 20:08, 27 November 2007 (EST)