Talk:Capitalism

"Anti Semitic"? You _are_ aware that Karl Marx was Jewish, right? --BobD 18:09, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

• He was ethnically Jewish yes. However, his parents were converts to Christianity. He was not raised Jewish and wrote many anti-semitic essays. He was a self-hating Jew! Google it. -- CoulterMan 18:14, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Cut:

an economic system where the means of production are privately owned and operated

It's still capitalism, even if the government runs some businesses. There is no bright line of division between free market capitalism and a totally planned economy. Even under the Soviet Union, there was a thriving black market. Maybe we need an economic spectrum to describe the gradations of control. --Ed Poor 05:21, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

I endores this view and beleive Marxist rhetoric needs to be kept out of this article. Capitalism is not an ideology, unlike Marxism, and there is no comparison between the two on that basis. RobS 13:07, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

I'd argue it is, but its tenets are rarely articulated. Anyone want to take a crack at it? (The big one seems to be that ANYTHING a corporation does to make money is inherently good.)

Don't bother. Gorby tried to salvage what he could, and still is a convinced Communst, but the rest of the planet has rejected the flawed notion that Communism is a completing "ideology" to Captialism. Please, abandon this moot point. RobS 13:37, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

• "It's still capitalism, even if the government runs some businesses." No it isn't!

"There is no bright line of division between free market capitalism and a totally planned economy." Yes, there is! -- AmeriCan 22:32, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

Image

HEE HEE! Guitarplayer 17:11, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

The image is to demonstrate the absurdity of image choice at Socialism. --Ĥøĵĭmåçħôńğ^talk 17:12, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

Ok, I'll play your little game. Thank you for the BBC link, it really was very interesting reading, and something I've wanted to read for a long time. You, sir, have the floor now. Please support any claim you wish to make. Thank you. RobS 17:47, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

My claim is that if you wish to make a completely inaccurate generalization about a very broad and diverse ideology, that kind of logic should apply to all ideologies. You put socialism in the worst possible light, so I think it is only fair to show capitalism in the worst possible light. Do you disagree? Is there some sort of double standard taking place here? I would propose an image of, say, Alexander Hamilton for the capitalism article, and Karl Marx for the socialism article. Both are extremely relevant figures. --Ĥøĵĭmåçħôńğ^talk 17:51, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

(A) I disagree with the premise, "Capitalism is an ideology." Now, it is up to you, using an argument or sources other than Marxist, to prove that it is an ideology. But we are getting ahead of ourselves. Right now, you need to support your fundamental claim, using this text, [1], for the statement,

"Augusto Pinochet, a Chilean capitalist. Pinochet murdered approximately 3,000 "leftist sympathizers" to promote capitalism." RobS 18:07, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

I don't care what term we use to define it; Capitalist and Socialism are two different ways of performing the same task. Whether it is an ideology, a way of life, an economic system, a belief... I don't care. Your attempts to pull the argument away from the core issue will not work. The issue at hand is the use of images, not whether it is an ideology. And I won't be using that source anymore, as I think we can both agree on the basics;

• Chilean leftists attempted to promote communism (a form of socialism, not synonymous with socialism)
• Pinochet murdered 3,000 leftists, to make sure that a capitalist economy stayed in place.

A CIA report: [2]

And for the record, I despise socialism; the basic ideal it promotes cannot be successfully attained, and it presents no motivation for work. I do, however, think that certain elements of socialist countries - say, socialized health care - would be of great benefit to America.

Once again, the question dodging needs to stop. Capitalism and Socialism are both, let's say, "economic systems". Therefore, presenting capitalism in a strictly positive light, while presenting the absolute worst of socialism - dictators, fascists, and murderers - is a ridiculous double standard. I understand your personal objection to socialism, Rob, but that doesn't get to influence objective writing, correct? --Ĥøĵĭmåçħôńğ^talk 19:00, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

Ok, so (A) where in the CIA report can you support the claim,

Augusto Pinochet, a Chilean capitalist. Pinochet murdered approximately 3,000 "leftist sympathizers" to promote capitalism."

(B) Can we assume you are unable to support the claim, "Augusto Pinochet, a Chilean capitalist. Pinochet murdered approximately 3,000 "leftist sympathizers" to promote capitalism," with the BBC cite, since you said, "I won't be using that source anymore", and will you remove it?

(C) Hoji said, "Capitalist and Socialism are two different ways of performing the same task;" -- RobS does not agree with this.

(D) Hoji said, "Capitalism and Socialism are both, let's say, 'economic systems';-- RobS does not agree with this either. RobS 20:33, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

Let's try this a similar way:

I don't agree with your agreement on C or D. Would you like to define them in your own manner? I proposed a compromise; an image of Hamilton on this article, and an article of Marx at Socialism. --Ĥøĵĭmåçħôńğ^talk 23:12, 25 June 2007 (EDT)