Difference between revisions of "Talk:Essay:Marry a Conservative"

Revision as of 12:43, June 16, 2008

I LOVE the statement that all liberals are unfaithful. My mom and dad have been married for 27 years, and they have never cheated on each other, and have three kids, myself included. --_transResident Transfan^form! 16:00, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Your comment is ridiculous and takes literalism to a new level. Nowhere does the essay say that all Liberals are unfaithful. However, such are Liberal values by their nature that the likelihood of infidelity, violence, STDs etc is far higher among Liberals than Conservatives. Bugler 16:18, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

"Transfan", you left out one detail: you seem to have trouble reading and/or thinking, as demonstrated by Bugler's response.--Aschlafly 16:31, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Wow, Andy! LOVE the personal attacks you're dishing out today! --_transResident Transfan^form! 16:41, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

It is good you are easily amused, Transfan, but it would be even better if you expressed an understanding of your own mistake.--Aschlafly 16:44, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Examples

Will this essay be expanded to include sourced examples, or will it continue to consist of unverifiable anecdotes? Wandering 16:33, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

We're not going to violate anyone's privacy, but there may be examples that are already published elsewhere that could be sourced. Ronald Reagan's first marriage comes to mind.--Aschlafly 16:45, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Wandering, aren't you going to follow through and post the example of Ronald Reagan's first marriage?--Aschlafly 18:35, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm a bit concerned that such an example could be taken the wrong way, Andy. I've known some liberals to make much of Reagan's rulings as governor of California (particularly his self-admitted mistake of signing a bill that expanded abortion.) Isn't it likely that they'd take the opportunity to twist an example of his first marriage into an attack on the man? --Benp 18:46, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Not once the details are set forth. I guess Wandering isn't going to follow through on his suggestion, so I suppose I'll have to do this.--Aschlafly 19:04, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Give the trouble I got in for edits on articles you seem to be focused on (such as Barack Obama), I'm not even going to think about editing your personal essays. Wandering 21:05, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Why did you bother me with your question if you're not willing to follow through?--Aschlafly 21:26, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Follow through with what? It's your essay, I'm not going to try and fix it's shortcomings. Wandering 08:43, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

Suggestion...

The vagaries of life that define the contours of one's romantic life are hard to reduce to an aphorism, and I can't help but think that for every example you put up a counterexample could be found. I'll testify for myself that I'm a liberal grad student, and have been in a committed relationship for five years now (we're talking about marriage), but I would never consider marrying a conservative woman. A woman who thinks that her only goals in life revolve around family and the home would bore me to tears; I need a challenge, and my girlfriend of five years has always been great fun to debate and learn from. Her counsel is invaluable to me, and her life as a young professional the source of countless exciting conversations, and a great deal of pride for me, for whatever small credit I can claim in her accomplishments (and she mine).

But that's my choice. Others may see it the other way. I wouldn't reduce my own taste to a generic lesson for the populace, any more than I would try to foist my preference for brunettes on the world either!-AShephard 16:59, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

I would never consider marrying a conservative woman. A woman who thinks that her only goals in life revolve around family and the home would bore me to tears Why think that? There are many, many examples of Conservative women who render your hoary old stereotype a... hoary old stereotype. And giving birth and raising a family at home doesn't require a brain removal, you know. Bugler 17:01, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Of course not! I know that. But the conservative women I've met - as conservative is defined on this website - seem to think that it does. Submission, and all that. AShephard 17:03, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Your candid comments are appreciated, but "submission" is a stereotype rather than a conservative value. Many "grad school" relationships do not last 10, 20 and ultimately 50 years of marriage. To the extent one party to the relationship insists on liberal values, there can be lots of unhappiness that follow for both parties to the relationship down the road.--Aschlafly 18:34, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Thanks for telling me my relationship is going to fail. I didn't know "sniping at your ideological opponents" was a conservative value," but now I guess I do. And I think your aphorism is best reduced to "pe mople should make sure their life goals match, regardless of political persuasion." That seems to be much more accurate, and a lot less needlessly hurtful, no?

As for "submission is a stereotype," let's investigate. Can a "conservative" woman in your mind have a job?-AShephard 18:44, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Wow, AShepard, you insult conservative women, to which no one takes offense, but woe to anyone who even slightly challenges your views! Perhaps you're right you're better off finding a liberal spouse, because a conservative one wouldn't be able to stand your reactions (and absurd stereotypes)!

Sure, you and wife can have a job, as you obviously expect. And then a child arrives, and there is the issue of who is going to take care of the child. Often liberal women want the man to provide at least half that care, whereupon there is juggling your job with that, and juggling the wife's job with her half. The stress hits fourfold from that awkward arrangement, careers suffer, the child frequently gets sick in group care, nerves start to snap, and the marriage begins to feel the strain. And that's if all goes well! The situation can be even worse if no child arrives, as before long the spouses can grow apart.

It's not a formula for success. I wish everyone the best who tries. I also do my best to let them know what's in store for them so they don't go down a road they'd rather not travel.--Aschlafly 19:13, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

I am a moderate and so is my partner (Moderate in NZ is liberal in the states) and so are many of our friends but we have a wonderful life. Same with our friends also. In fact, we have gotten happier as time goes on. Also, small point, I dont think a liberal would want to marry a conservative. AdenJ 18:38, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm sure there are counterexamples. I'm also sure you're not telling us the whole story about marriages by liberals among people in NZ.--Aschlafly 19:16, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Hmmmmm well I am not telling you any stories about marrige in NZ, whole or otherwise. All I know is my liberal (and atheist I might add) partner and I are very happy. AdenJ 19:19, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

No, that's not all you said. You also claimed "so are many of [your] friends." And there is strikingly little detail about your own marriage, such as the basic number of years you've been married (and how many times). If you and your friends are as liberal as you say, then unfortunately I'm confident there is a lot of marital unhappiness there and many divorces. I'm not asking for the gory details, but I do object to the false portrayal of it here.--Aschlafly 19:36, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

What? Are you serious? You are doubting what I say based on what? None of my friends have ever been divorced and neither have I. We are all very happy and, actually, I dont know why I even dignify your comment with an answer. Yes it is unfortunate that you are confident you know my life better then I. You have basically implied I am a liar based on......well, nothing. AdenJ 19:41, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Still no details from AdenJ, so I'll give you some: the divorce rate in New Zealand is almost as high as the marriage rate! [1] --Aschlafly 19:59, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

I am not going to give you details of mine or others marriages and your stats, while true, say nothing about my situation or my friends. I said I am happy and my friends are happy so what reason do you have to suggest I am lying? If your reason is "because they are liberals" then that says more about you than me. AdenJ 20:04, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Aschlafly, I reiterate my statement that the truth in your little "essay" - if any truth there be - lies higher up the funnel of abstraction, at the simple aphorism, "people should talk about long-term plans before getting married." A couple can get through anything if they truly love about each other and appreciate the sacrifices, and a couple with different values - regardless of what values those may be - will fall apart before long, but it won't be anyone's fault, except the couple's for planning poorly. Your attempt to blame the marriage on liberals is sheer polemic, and quite insultive at that.-AShephard 22:27, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Wow

I don't even know what to say, this essay turns my stomach. ---user:DLerner--- 20:00, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

That says more about you, DLerner, than it does about the essay.--Aschlafly 20:09, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Really!

Being a member of this site for a while (not that anyone would notice, they don't give me any extra rights cause they don't like my politics/religion), one of the things liberals get attacked for is their alleged bias to people of different ideologies, (Complete rubbish article, but I gave up arguing with Andy on the talk page once he stopped being coherent).

I've seen a lot of crazy nonsense written on this site, but this takes the cake. Why not throw in "Don't marry blacks or Jews, most of them are liberal".

• freedom from sexually transmitted diseases and their harm (including infertility) Right, because we all know that conservatives are never gay (Haggert, anyone) and never cheat on their wives or boyfriends...
• fidelity in marriage and accountability Identical response
• lack of hostility to faith, no censorship of prayer Who would marry someone that censors their beliefs? Sounds outlandish, anybody ever have their spouse "censor" them? Once again the vile lie that all liberals are anti-religion, I'll point out again that I'm probably the most religious person on this site and Andy thinks nice conservative girls shouldn't marry me because I'm a lib
• respect for the Ten Commandments and opposition to deceit What, are you electing a public official? I guess conservatives lie much less then liberals. (Iraq WMD's, torture, 9/11 connection).
• respect for a work ethic, and rejection of an entitlement mentality No republicans on welfare, no siree. Liberals don't work and expect to get money from the government, eh?
• appreciates the importance of a conservative culture in raising children And liberals appreciate the importance of a liberal culture to raise their children in. You see Andy, that what we call an opposing point of view, but then you oppose multiculturalism, so it's my way or the high way.
• no confusion over who is the homemaker and who is the breadwinner; recognizing the benefits of division of labor Women belong in the kitchen! YAY
• recognizing that values do matter and do have serious consequences Only conservatives do that...
• having values powerful enough to overcome addiction, such as drinking, gambling, pornography, obesity and smoking No such thing as a fat, smoking & drug addicted conservative (Well, except this guy)
• freedom from the liberal media and Hollywood values, and their misguided promotions and fads Conservatives don't have TV's? Where do they watch faux news?
• a relationship where issues and problems can be openly discussed, free from the ideological shackles of Liberal beliefs, Liberal denial and political correctness. Liberals never talk, and when they do they're never open. about it.

True case studies Convenient, facts changed, they'll be just like conservative parables you'll make them up as you go along.

Case one: Right, conservatives never break up with each other over differences.

Case two: some people are infertile, it could be Joe was sterile.

Case three: John McCain did the same thing... (Now that he's the nominee he's conservative enough for you...)

Case four: Stan is a moron and got what he deserved, ("All women were that way" true conservative way of thinking).

Case five: No such thing as a gay republican, right, Senator?

---user:DLerner--- 20:47, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

GlenW

GlenW, this is not like Wikipedia. We do not use^{[Citation Needed]} tags to cast doubt onto well known facts. It's well known that promiscuity and STDs go hand in hand. If you doubt this, I'm sure some simple research will enlighten you. If you feel a citation is needed, why don't you find one and thereby contribute positively to the site. BryonRichards 23:18, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

So what you're saying is that if I demand evidence, it is my responsibility to find evidence for something else? That sounds like liberal dodging to me.....GlenW 23:21, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Bryon's explanation is clear. Insertion of^{[Citation Needed]} tags is not a way to argue here. Your demands for evidence for something that is proven and undisputed, such as promiscuity and STDs being closely correlated with other, are silly and will be reverted. Dispute that the earth is round somewhere else, not here.--Aschlafly 23:25, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

"half of promiscuous people carry sexually transmitted diseases" is proven and undisputed?GlenW 23:34, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Cite added ... which you could have found as easily as I did. It took about 5 minutes.--Aschlafly 23:45, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

Actually, the cite does not back up the statement. It says that 40% of teenage girls who took part in a study and admitted to having sex have a sexually transmitted disease. That is not at all the same as saying half of all promiscuous people do. 40% is not 50%, admitting having had sex does not equal promiscuity, and what is true of teenage girls is not necessarily true of the overall population. Young girls are less likely to take precaution, less likely to know symptoms, and less likely to seek treatment, especially if they have to admit to their parents that they have been sexually active. Most STDs are curable, and most do not cause infertility. the story is full of speculation. Jaguar 00:10, 16 June 2008 (EDT)