Difference between revisions of "Talk:Conservative of the Year 2019"

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(Decision)
(British Conservatives are Pro-Murder: new section)
 
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::Based on his article, Mr. Hawley seems to be a fine candidate for this, I'm probably just more familiar with Mr. Gaetz due to geography (we live in the same state, though his district is nine hours away from where I live). The Brexit voters are indeed a powerful force for good, but I'd have more respect for Great Britain as a whole if there weren't so many atheists there. Atheists are the nemesis of true conservatives. [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] ([[User talk:DMorris|talk]]) 23:48, 31 December 2019 (EST)
 
::Based on his article, Mr. Hawley seems to be a fine candidate for this, I'm probably just more familiar with Mr. Gaetz due to geography (we live in the same state, though his district is nine hours away from where I live). The Brexit voters are indeed a powerful force for good, but I'd have more respect for Great Britain as a whole if there weren't so many atheists there. Atheists are the nemesis of true conservatives. [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] ([[User talk:DMorris|talk]]) 23:48, 31 December 2019 (EST)
 
:::I think a biblical worldview is the strongest defense against globalism (in addition to other anti-Christian views) since it is so antithetical to the [[Idea of Progress]] which underpins globalist ideology. Without returning to the strong Christian roots it held until the late 19th century, I don't think the UK will fully or permanently reject globalist ideology. --[[User:1990'sguy|1990'sguy]] ([[User talk:1990'sguy|talk]]) 00:17, 1 January 2020 (EST)
 
:::I think a biblical worldview is the strongest defense against globalism (in addition to other anti-Christian views) since it is so antithetical to the [[Idea of Progress]] which underpins globalist ideology. Without returning to the strong Christian roots it held until the late 19th century, I don't think the UK will fully or permanently reject globalist ideology. --[[User:1990'sguy|1990'sguy]] ([[User talk:1990'sguy|talk]]) 00:17, 1 January 2020 (EST)
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== British Conservatives are Pro-Murder ==
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The British public, including the so-called Conservative Party there, are far from pro-life. While Brexit is a masterpiece -- let's not pretend the British are anything other than pro-aborts. --[[User:IScott|IScott]] ([[User talk:IScott|talk]]) 16:47, 30 December 2020 (EST)

Latest revision as of 21:47, December 30, 2020

Decision

Who decides who becomes Conservative of the Year? - JobsNotMobs —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JobsNotMobs (talk)

We'll discuss on the talk page near the end of the year (within the last week), and we'll come to a consensus. --1990'sguy (talk) 15:48, 8 December 2019 (EST)

Ok, thank you


Has a decision been made yet? If not, has anyone considered Juan Guaido? --BernieandTrumpFan (talk) 01:29, 1 January 2020 (EST)

Guaido is a democratic socialist, so no. The decision will probably be made shortly. --1990'sguy (talk) 08:46, 1 January 2020 (EST)

Boris Johnson

Boris obviously has a good position on Brexit, and he won a strong victory last week, but I don't think he should be Conservative of the Year, or even 2nd or 3rd place. The reason is that despite his position on Brexit, he's very left-wing on several other issues, including abortion, homosexuality, environmentalism, and certain globalist agreements such as the Paris climate agreement. Also, my understanding is that he's a pragmatist rather than an ideologue, meaning that he doesn't have particularly strong views on issues.

I would be supportive of listing "Brexit voters" as a Conservative of the Year entry, similar to what we did in 2015. --1990'sguy (talk) 09:18, 16 December 2019 (EST)

Boris Johnson is right on Brexit, but he is an abortion advocate. He encouraged his mistress to have an abortion. - JobsNotMobs

He apparently paid for her abortion: [1] That said, this was in 2004, so his current abortion/homosexuality/environment/etc. positions are more relevant to us today. --1990'sguy (talk) 18:52, 16 December 2019 (EST)
Regardless, he has always abstained from votes on pro-life bills.[2] I believe he even pressured Northern Ireland to relax its strong, pro-life laws. Personally, because of his pro-abortion views, he should be eliminated.--JobsNotMobs (talk) 09:21, 17 December 2019 (EST)
You make a valid point, and he won't be the Conservative of the Year here. In general, British politicians are typically not conservative by American standards.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 13:11, 17 December 2019 (EST)
Sounds good. I reordered the list to better reflect (in my view) relevance/significance this year. --1990'sguy (talk) 18:43, 17 December 2019 (EST)

I don't think being an ideologue is a good thing. Maybe I'm wrong,[3] but I think pursuing the truth is more important than giving someone unwarranted praise because they have an (R) next to their name, or saying, "conservatives believe this, therefore you must believe it or you are not truly a conservative." I am critical of the Republican Party, the Conservative Party of Canada, and the Conservative Party in Britain. Does that mean I'm not a conservative? How about supporting the legalization of cannabis? Yes, if Boris Johnson is pro-abortion, then he's not very conservative, and I have heard similar criticisms of him,[4] but Boris Johnson put blue-collar workers first for once,[5] and he has been much better than Theresa May.[6] So as much as I hate RINOs (and there's an abundance of them), I don't think we should eliminate anyone simply because the person is libertarian. Libertarians are still conservative. If Boris Johnson is socially liberal, that's another thing, but a surprising amount of conservatives support environmentalism (see the dislikes on PragerU's anti-environmentalist YouTube videos), and even more, including President Trump, are uncritical of homosexuality. Abortion is another thing. But even that's one issue (albeit an extremely significant one). Johnson is a right-wing populist, and a proud Brexiteer, which is the most important thing. In the end, he's not that different from some other figures in the Populist Revolution, like Mateo Salvini, Jair Bolsonaro, or even Maxime Bernier. However, we must examine him carefully, and we must choose a strong, consistent conservative for Conservative of the Decade. BernieandTrumpFan (talk) 03:18, 28 December 2019 (EST)

You're misunderstanding my point, and I agree that a consistent conservative doesn't give any human being "unwarranted praise," especially for their political party affiliation. My point is that Johnson isn't conservative and at least my perception is that some of Johnson's conservative positions (among his liberal positions) are motivated by pragmatic political interests rather than a firm foundational belief in them on their own terms. --1990'sguy (talk) 09:32, 28 December 2019 (EST)

That’s understandable, however: [7] BernieandTrumpFan (talk) 20:25, 28 December 2019 (EST)

Tulsi Gabbard

Yes, Gabbard is much better than most other Democrats, but I don't think she's anywhere close to being a conservative. I recommend everyone to read this TNA article on her positions on globalism. Additionally, her positions on other issues, such as abortion, are more aligned with the Democrats. --1990'sguy (talk) 19:52, 25 December 2019 (EST)

Valid point, but Gabbard has been more effective in 2019 in espousing certain conservative positions with swing voters than the several of the media types on the list have been.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 21:24, 25 December 2019 (EST)
OK, but I still strongly think she should be placed near the bottom of the list -- we removed Boris Johnson because he's not actually a conservative and replaced his entry with Brexit voters, who are more conservative as a whole. Gabbard is just as liberal, if not more so, as Johnson, based on her positions on immigration, globalism, abortion, and LGBT. And earlier this year, she apologized for once opposing homosexuality: [8] A strong conservative wouldn't have done so, and Gabbard doesn't consider herself a conservative or as being on the Right. --1990'sguy (talk) 20:14, 26 December 2019 (EST)

Jair Bolsonaro

I think Bolsonaro has been a good president overall, but I have been disappointed with him on several issues. For example, he retreated from his campaign promise to withdraw from the Paris climate agreement.[9] More importantly, he completely U-turned on his opposition to China's communist government and now welcomes increased investment by the country (1,2,3,4). I don't think he's done much to push back against globalism in Brazil's foreign policy.

Overall, I think he's been good because of his positions on abortion, homosexuality, gun rights, and his support for Christians in Brazil, but I think he's been disappointing on the issues mentioned above and less bold than I think he could have been. Thus, I don't think he should be in the top two this year. --1990'sguy (talk) 20:25, 26 December 2019 (EST)

To clarify, I support third or fourth place for Bolsonaro, but I personally think that some of his policies on globalism/international relations have been disappointing. --1990'sguy (talk) 20:50, 26 December 2019 (EST)

Tucker Carlson

I think Tucker Carlson should be much higher up in the list. Just this year, he has spoken strongly against the Koch brothers (1,2), multiple times against Big Tech (for example), criticized liberal/globalist GOP megadonor Paul Singer (1,2), criticized so-called "conservative" organizations for allying with Big Tech (1,2), strongly promoted putting a strong family over liberal economics (1,2), and strongly criticized abortion (1,[2), among various other statements (1,2). Also, every time he said something controversial, he's refused to back down despite being targeted by the Left (1,2,3,4).

In short, Carlson isn't like the other Fox News hosts, and he should be placed higher up in the list. --1990'sguy (talk) 20:38, 26 December 2019 (EST)

I agree: Tucker should go higher, but I don't think the others should. All of them are essentially talking to an elderly, set-in-their-ways demographic.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 00:34, 28 December 2019 (EST)

Need top pick the winner and first runner-up

Time's up! I say Sen. Josh Hawley as the winner, and the Labour Party defectors as the first runner-up.--Andy Schlafly (talk) 00:13, 31 December 2019 (EST)

While I think those are great choices, I would pick the Hong Kong protesters[10] as the winner and President Donald Trump as the runner-up. --BernieandTrumpFan (talk) 00:44, 31 December 2019 (EST)
I think Hawley should be the winner, and I can also support Brexit voters as #2. I think Trump should be third place.
I still strongly oppose including Tulsi Gabbard here and other people who we know are not conservatives. These people, especially Tulsi, are clearly not conservative and oppose conservative values. In her most recent statement opposing impeachment, she littered her statement with words like "unfortunately" to describe Trump's success: [11] She's obviously not blatantly crazy like Bernie Sanders, but simply being not crazy should not be the bar for being included here. Our standards should be higher.
In 2017, John McCain blocked a Defense Department appointee because of his liberal positions on abortion and gun control: [12] This is good, but it wouldn't have warranted his inclusion in the 2017 nominations page because of all the ways he worked against conservatives that year (ObamaCare, anti-Trump, etc.). The same is true for Gabbard, who considers herself a Left-liberal.
I'm also disappointed that we have entries for establishment Republicans like Sean Hannity, Nikki Haley, and Candice Owens who don't have strong records and did nothing to stick out this year. Once again, our standards should be higher than this for how to be included in this article. --1990'sguy (talk) 11:08, 31 December 2019 (EST)
1990sguy, I agree with everything you said but that last line. Sure, Hannity occasionally strikes me as insincere, and he did participate in the smearing of Todd Akin, even inviting him on his show just so he could attack him, but he has consistently defended Trump against attacks by liberals on his show; and yes, maybe Haley was at one point a Never Trumper and a Rubio supporter, but what non-conservative actions has she taken in her job at the United Nations? Since the election, it appears that she has been pretty consistently conservative. Mike Pence is a nominee, and he endorsed Ted Cruz! Tucker Carlson is a nominee, and he's borderline anti-capitalist! I don't understand at all what point you're trying to make about Candace Owens, but I know she's not an establishment conservative, and her actions in attempting to liberate the black community from the yoke of the Democrats could be considered very strongly conservative. I like Mike Pence, Tucker Carlson, Sean Hannity, Nikki Haley, and Candace Owens, and I think they all deserve to be on the list. --BernieandTrumpFan (talk) 14:45, 31 December 2019 (EST)
You make some good points, and I admit, my above comment was probably too cruel toward Hannity and Owens -- I'm just frustrated at what I think is a too lax standard for including people on this list. There are many good conservative people in both the U.S. and Europe, but it would be silly to add them all to this list just because they're conservative. The question should be: what makes them stand out among the many other consistent, or mostly-consistent, conservatives for the year 2019? And having people like Gabbard is a whole other question considering she isn't even in on the conservative-right.
Just a small point, Haley's term as UN ambassador ended at the end of 2018, so her tenure is irrelevant to the 2019 page, and the media has held her up as a more politically correct VP replacement to Pence. --1990'sguy (talk) 15:00, 31 December 2019 (EST)
Tulsi Gabbard absolutely should not be on the list. I agree 100%. What do you think of Charlie Kirk, for his youth activism and consistent defense of conservative values? He has been under attack for years from "conservatives" to the left of him[13] and "conservatives" to the right of him,[14] and he doesn't even let that faze him. His organization has made tremendous progress in advancing the goals of the conservative movement, and he has deep connections with the Trump administration. He is not unlike Candace Owens (whom he also has connections with). He has stood strong and continuously defended legitimate conservatism. He has also done a great job advancing free speech on college campuses.[15] And how about Dennis Prager/Prager University or Steven Crowder for confronting YouTube/Big Tech and the deep state directly, unafraid and unintimidated in both cases.[16][17] Thoughts? --BernieandTrumpFan (talk) 17:23, 31 December 2019 (EST)
I like Prager a lot, and I think positively of Crowder though I don't know too much about him. I'm not sure about Charlie Kirk, since I know of some strongly nationalist conservatives (Michelle Malkin and Ryan Girdusky) who have stated that Kirk isn't strong enough on legal immigration and foreign restraint, but I don't dislike him either. That said, I don't see how any of them (except, possibly, Prager) have stuck out enough this year to warrant inclusion in this list. --1990'sguy (talk) 19:40, 31 December 2019 (EST)

My vote is Matt Gaetz

In my opinion, Mr. Gaetz is probably the most appropriate for this title, given his recent rise to fame, his strong support for our President, and his strong influence in the current political arena. The guy is a bulldog for Trump, certainly worthy of this honor. As for Conservative of the Decade, like we did ten years ago, I would vote for Donald Trump. DMorris (talk) 23:37, 31 December 2019 (EST)

Gaetz has been a strong conservative, but Hawley is also everything that Gaetz is, except that I think Hawley is more focused on policy (or at least the "nuts and bolts"), which I think gives him a stronger case. --1990'sguy (talk) 23:42, 31 December 2019 (EST)
Based on his article, Mr. Hawley seems to be a fine candidate for this, I'm probably just more familiar with Mr. Gaetz due to geography (we live in the same state, though his district is nine hours away from where I live). The Brexit voters are indeed a powerful force for good, but I'd have more respect for Great Britain as a whole if there weren't so many atheists there. Atheists are the nemesis of true conservatives. DMorris (talk) 23:48, 31 December 2019 (EST)
I think a biblical worldview is the strongest defense against globalism (in addition to other anti-Christian views) since it is so antithetical to the Idea of Progress which underpins globalist ideology. Without returning to the strong Christian roots it held until the late 19th century, I don't think the UK will fully or permanently reject globalist ideology. --1990'sguy (talk) 00:17, 1 January 2020 (EST)

British Conservatives are Pro-Murder

The British public, including the so-called Conservative Party there, are far from pro-life. While Brexit is a masterpiece -- let's not pretend the British are anything other than pro-aborts. --IScott (talk) 16:47, 30 December 2020 (EST)