Difference between revisions of "Debate:Does the Catholic Church have the biblical authority of Christ Himself to preach and to teach the truth forever?"

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Former Catholic priest Richard Bennett left the Catholic Church when he began to seriously study the Bible: [https://bereanbeacon.org/richard-bennett-from-tradition-to-truth-a-priests-story/]
 
Former Catholic priest Richard Bennett left the Catholic Church when he began to seriously study the Bible: [https://bereanbeacon.org/richard-bennett-from-tradition-to-truth-a-priests-story/]
  
{{cquote|While I had learned earlier that God’s Word is absolute, I still went through this agony of trying to maintain the Roman Catholic Church as holding more authority than God’s Word, even in issues where the Church of Rome was saying the exact opposite to what was in the Bible. How could this be? First, it was my own fault. If I had accepted the authority of the Bible as supreme, I would have been convicted by God’s Word to give up my priestly role as mediator, but that was too precious to me. Second, no one ever questioned what I did as a priest. Christians from overseas came to Mass, saw our sacred oils, holy water, medals, statues, vestments, rituals, and never said a word! The marvelous style, symbolism, music, and artistic taste of the Roman Church were all very captivating. Incense not only smells pungent, but to the mind it spells mystery.}}
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{{cquote|While I had learned earlier that God’s Word is absolute, I still went through this agony of trying to maintain the '''Roman Catholic Church as holding more authority than God’s Word, even in issues where the Church of Rome was saying the exact opposite to what was in the Bible.''' How could this be? First, it was my own fault. If I had accepted the authority of the Bible as supreme, I would have been convicted by God’s Word to give up my priestly role as mediator, but that was too precious to me. Second, no one ever questioned what I did as a priest. Christians from overseas came to Mass, saw our sacred oils, holy water, medals, statues, vestments, rituals, and never said a word! The marvelous style, symbolism, music, and artistic taste of the Roman Church were all very captivating. Incense not only smells pungent, but to the mind it spells mystery.}}
  
 
Former Catholic nun Alicia Simpson likewise: [https://bereanbeacon.org/my-search-for-peace-a-nuns-story/]
 
Former Catholic nun Alicia Simpson likewise: [https://bereanbeacon.org/my-search-for-peace-a-nuns-story/]
  
{{cquote|In due time, I went with a bus from our church.  For the first time in my life I found myself in a vast evangelical gathering.  I had no idea what was going on.  There I saw the words, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”, and I heard for the first time the words, “Ye must be born again.”  There was a new way of preaching from the Bible, very different from anything I had ever heard.  My interest was truly aroused and questions were arising in my mind.  Was there salvation outside the Church of Rome?  The preacher said that salvation was obtained through believing in the finished work of Christ at Calvary, not through belonging to any particular church.  All my training and indoctrination denied such a possibility.  But this preacher kept asking us to repent and come to Christ for the forgiveness of sins.  Who was right?}}
+
{{cquote|In due time, I went with a bus from our church.  For the first time in my life I found myself in a vast evangelical gathering.  I had no idea what was going on.  There I saw the words, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”, and I heard for the first time the words, “Ye must be born again.”  There was a new way of preaching from the Bible, very different from anything I had ever heard.  My interest was truly aroused and questions were arising in my mind.  Was there salvation outside the Church of Rome?  The preacher said that salvation was obtained through believing in the finished work of Christ at Calvary, not through belonging to any particular church.  '''All my training and indoctrination denied such a possibility.''' But this preacher kept asking us to repent and come to Christ for the forgiveness of sins.  Who was right?}}
  
 
== Yes. The Catholic Church does have the biblical authority of Jesus Christ ==
 
== Yes. The Catholic Church does have the biblical authority of Jesus Christ ==

Revision as of 20:51, July 20, 2020

This is a non-denominational exchange of ideas intended to bring about a greater understanding of the Bible.
All views are welcome.

TEXTS and QUESTIONS of the Debate are posted here.
READER RESPONSE ANSWERS AND COMMENTS are most welcome here, and should not be made on the Talk Page.

Texts

Jesus: "And I tell you, you are Peter (Petros = rock/stone), and on this rock I will build my CHURCH, and the powers of death / the gates of hades shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 16:18-19
Jesus: And if any one will not receive you (plural) or listen to your (plural) words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you (plural), it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrhah than for that town. Matthew 10_14-15
Jesus: (said to his Jewish disciples) "if he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, let him be to you (plural) as a Gentile and a tax collector (to the Jews a godless pagan and a traitor to the people of God). Truly I say to you (plural), whatever you (plural) bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you (plural) loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matthew 18:17b-18
Jesus: "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you (plural); and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age ("aeonos" = millions of years)." Matthew 28:19b-20
Jesus: "And I will pray the Father, and he will give you (plural) another Counselor, to be with you for ever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; you (plural) know him, for he dwells with you (plural), and will be in you (plural)." John 14:16-17.
Jesus: "If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." John 15:6. "I have yet many things to say to you (plural), but you (plural) cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you (plural) into all the truth" John 16:12-13a
"Jesus said to them again, 'Peace be with you (plural). As the Father has sent me, even so I send you (plural).' And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you (plural) forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you (plural) retain the sins of any, they are retained." John 20:21-23
"But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brethren, 'Unless you are circumcized according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved' (their sola scriptura interpretation). And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question. So being sent on their way by the CHURCH...When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the CHURCH and the apostles and elders." Acts 15:1-2,4a. "Then it seemed good to the apostles and elders, with the whole CHURCH to choose men from among them and send them...'it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us' ...and having gathered the congregation together, they delivered the letter. And when they read it, they rejoiced at the exhortation." Acts 15:22,28,30b-31 (this has been called the Council of Jerusalem—the New Testament had not been written)
Paul: "Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you guardians, to feed the CHURCH of the Lord which he obtained with his own blood." Acts 20:28
Paul: "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment." Romans 13:1-2
Paul: "I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given to me by God to be a minister / official ambassador of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit." Romans 15:15-16
Paul: "For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slave or free" 1 Corinthians 12:12-13. "Now you (plural) are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the CHURCH first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators..." 1 Corinthians 12:27-28
Paul: "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you." 1 Corinthians 11:2
Paul: "So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God." 2 Corinthians 5:20
Paul: "As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to to that which you received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:9
Paul: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10
Paul: "So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy TEMPLE in the Lord; in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit." Ephesians 2:19-21
Paul: "to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things; that through the CHURCH the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known..." Ephesians 3:9-10
Paul: "He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. He is the head of the body, the CHURCH; he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent. For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell" Colossians 1:18-19 "holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God." Colossians 2:19
Paul: "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter." 2 Thessalonians 2:15. "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the traditions that you received from us." 2 Thessalonians 3:6
Paul: "know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the CHURCH of the living God, the pillar and bulwark / foundation / ground of the truth." 1 Timothy 3:15
Paul: "and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also." 2 Timothy 2:2
Paul: "exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you." Titus 2:15 (written to the bishop of Crete). "avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels over the law / Old Testament, for they are unprofitable and futile. As for a man who is factious / an heretick, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful: he is self-condemned." Titus 3:9-11
Hebrews: "A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses (compare Matthew 18:16). How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned / made unholy / regarded as common the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?" Hebrews 10:28-29
Hebrews: "We have an altar (singular) from which those who serve the tent / tabernacle have no right to eat." Hebrews 13:10
Hebrews: "Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you." Hebrews 13:17
James: "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24
James: "Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders (presbyteroi = "priests") of the CHURCH, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven." James 5:14-15
Peter: "Like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 2:5.
Peter: "Be subject for the Lord's sake to every HUMAN INSTITUTION, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right. For it is God's will that by doing right you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish men." 1 Peter 2:13-15
Peter: "be subject to the elders (presbyteroi = "priests"). Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for 'God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.' Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that in due time he may exalt you." 1 Peter 5:5-6
Peter: "His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, that through these you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of passion, and become PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE." 2 Peter 1:3-4 (Eucharist, the promise of eternal life in John 6:53-58)
John: "Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour. They WENT OUT FROM US, but they were not of us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:18-19
John: "And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son as the Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God." 1 John 4:14-15
(the Catholic Church confesses that Jesus is the Son of God in the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed and in the Cathechism of the Catholic Church. John 20:21 testifies that just as the Father sent Jesus as Savior of the world so He sent the apostles as Savior of the world in His Body the Church).
John: "Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son. If any one comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into the house or give him any greeting; for he who greets him shares his wicked work." 2 John 9-11 (this includes the doctrine of Christ that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church that Jesus built on a rock)
John: "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the CHURCHES." Revelation 2:7,11,17,29 3:6,13,22

Questions

Discuss the following questions relating to the scriptures cited above:

  • What is the sola scriptura plain and clear simple meaning of these passages?
  • Are the parenthetical comments inserted in the passages above useful? If not, why not?
  • Is biblical scholarship regarding these passages helpful? Is it irrelevant?
  • Are biblical commentaries on these passages helpful? Are they irrelevant?
  • Do the meanings of these passages in the original language help understanding of their meaning? Is it irrelevant?
  • Can translations be trusted? If not, why? If so, which one is best? Is there more than one to be trusted?
  • Are these passages taken together in context?
  • Are some or any or all of these passages irrelevant to the Debate Question? Which ones?
  • Are any of these Bible passages not relevant to the church? Which? Why?
  • Is the church a governing authority?
  • Does any church have authority?
  • What is the meaning of "the church" in these passages?
  • Explain your personal answer to the Debate Question: "Does the Catholic Church have the biblical authority of Christ Himself to preach and to teach the truth forever?"
  • Does the Catholic Church have any authority at all?
  • Is the Catholic Church a human institution? If it is, how is the obedience commanded by 1 Peter 2:13-15 relevant?
  • If not, what does that mean in reference to Matthew 16:19-20 "I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it"? Is it irrelevant? Why?
  • Do church teachings and official documents have any binding authority? Are they to be ignored? Why?
  • Are ecumenical and local church councils and synods relevant? Do they have any authority?
  • Who has authority to interpret scripture? How do we know this? Is sola spiritu reliable? Is it infallible?
  • Is the list of scriptural passages posted here at the top of this page a misuse of scripture? Is the list a demonic or satanic abuse or twisting of scripture? If so, why?
  • What authority do you have? Why should you be believed? Is that relevant to the Debate Question? Why?
  • Differences and contradictions:
    —Do heresies and charges of heresy prove that Jesus did not keep his promises in Matthew 16:19-20; John 14:16 and 16:13?
    —Do Christian divisions and multiple divided denominations opposing each other prove that Jesus did not keep his promises in Matthew 16:19-20; John 14:16 and 16:13?
    —Do the Great Schism of 1054 and the Protestant Reformation prove that Jesus did not keep his promises in Matthew 16:19-20; John 14:16 and 16:13?
    and Do moral scandals and charges of scandal and hypocrisy and corruption against Christian leadership, against Popes, Patriarchs, Bishops, Priests, Reformers, Pastors, Ministers, and leaders of Christian Sects and Cults, prove that Jesus did not keep his promises in Matthew 16:19-20; John 14:16 and John 16:13?
  • Sinful Behavior: Does sinful behavior against the Christian doctrine and scriptures invalidate the Christian doctrine and scriptures and the promises of Christ? Is behavior identical with doctrine? If so, why? If not, why?
  • Satanic influence and power: Does Satan dominate and rule the Church and all the churches? If so, why? If not, why?

No. The Catholic Church does not have the biblical authority of Jesus Christ

User: Conservative

Martin Luther was the father of the Protestant Reformation.

One of the editors of the User: Conservative account is a staunch Protestant.

"Here I stand. I can do no other." - Martin Luther

3 points:

1. Meaning of: "And I tell you, you are Peter (Petros = rock/stone), and on this rock I will build my CHURCH, and the powers of death / the gates of hades shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." - Matthew 16:18-19

Please see:

2. The historical evidence for papal primacy is insufficient. The historical evidence is against papal primacy.

See:

"The word “Pope” means “Papa,” “Father.” At first it was applied to all Western Bishops. About AD. 500 it began to be restricted to the Bishop of Rome, and soon, in common use, came to mean Universal Bishop. The Roman Catholic list of Popes includes the Bishops of Rome from the 1st century onward. But for 500 years Bishops of Rome were NOT Popes.


The idea that the Bishop of Rome should have Authority over the Whole Church was a slow growth, bitterly contested at every step, and Never Has, at any time, Been Universally Recognized....

WBSG Note: Jesus tells us in the Bible to “call no man your father on earth.” We know that He wasn’t speaking about your flesh parent because the fifth commandment says: “Honor thy father and thy mother…” [Ex 20:12]. So what other father could He mean except Pope (The word “Pope” means “Papa,” “Father.”). Also notice the capitalization below in the word Father (this indicates the presence of the definite article in the Greek language):

Matt 23:9 (Jesus speaking) 9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (KJV)

The Roman Catholic tradition that Peter was the First Pope is Fiction pure and simple. There is no New Testament hint, and no historical evidence whatever, that Peter was at any time Bishop of Rome. Nor did he ever claim for himself such Authority as the Popes have claimed for themselves. It seems that Peter had a divine foreboding that his “Successors” would be mainly concerned with “Lording it over Gods flock, rather than showing themselves Examples to the flock” (I Peter 5:3)....


Beginning of Rome’s Domineering Policy:

  • Anicetus, Bishop of Rome (154-168), tried to influence Polycarp, Bishop of Smyrna, to change the date of Easter observance; but Polycarp refused to yield... (Polycarp was a disciple of the Apostle John)...
  • Victor 1 (190-202), threatened to excommunicate the Eastern Churches for celebrating Easter on the 14th of Nisan. Polycrates, Bishop of Ephesus, replied that he was not afraid of Victors threats, and asserted his independent authority. Iranaeus, of Lyons, though a Western Bishop, and in sympathy with the Western viewpoint on Easter Observance, that is, the week-day rather than the month-day, rebuked Victor for trying to Dictate to Eastern Churches."[2]

3. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

Specifically, Jesus said: "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them." (Matthew 7:15-20)

Religious scholars generally separate Christianity into 3 main branches: Catholicism, Protestantism and Eastern Orthodox.

Reformation writers Martin Luther, John Calvin, and John Knox taught that the Catholic Church was the Whore of Babylon mentioned in the Book of Revelation. Identification of the Pope as the Antichrist was written into Protestant creeds such as the Westminster Confession of 1646.

In the last 40 years, the corruptness of the Catholic Church has gone to a whole, new stratospheric level (For example, it has had many pedophile and homosexual priests and there have been many Vatican bank/financial scandals).

There is a pandemic of homosexuality, pedophilia and Vatican bank/financial scandals within the Catholic Church.

"The report released Thursday by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops said the 2019 report — which covered July 2018 through June 2019 — counted 4,434 allegations of clergy sex abuse against minors."[3]

  • A global look at the Catholic Church’s sex abuse problem[4], Associated Press, 2019

The staunch, Catholic Michael Voris indicates there is a major problem with there being many homosexual priests in the Catholic priesthood, Western Catholic hierarchy and in the Vatican: The Vortex — The Homosexual Papacy?.

The Catholic church is a corrupt joke. Its corruptness is long standing, but in the last 40 years its corruptness has gone to a whole new stratospheric level.

There is no pandemic of pedophilia in conservative, Bible believing, Protestant churches (I am not referring to liberal Protestant churches which I consider heretical because they often reject the authority/inerrancy of the Bible and promote unbiblical practices such as as homosexuality). I have been going to conservative, Bible believing, Protestant churches for years and I am not aware of any pandemic of conservative in any of the geographic areas I have lived in as far as the United States. On the other hand, the Catholic diocese in my city has declared bankruptcy due to all the sexual abuse cases lodged against it.

I am not aware of any pandemic of pedophilia in Eastern Orthodox Churches. According to Newsweek: "But the Orthodox Church has not experienced as many scandals as its Roman Catholic counterpart, which has been the frequent target of protests by activist groups advocating for victims of sexual assault. Unlike Catholic priests, Orthodox priests are allowed to be married."[5]

Roman Catholic Church, Homosexuality and pederasty

Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, the American Roman Catholic bishops and the Vatican had noted a growing problem with clerical sexual abuse in the U.S.[1] In addition, Ireland and other European countries have experienced problems relating to instances of Roman Catholic priests sexually abusing children.[2]

Catholic League president Bill Donohue declared concerning the scandals of priests molesting minors:

The latest attempt to silence me comes from GLAAD (Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation), Call to Action and the Interfaith Alliance. The three left-wing organizations have joined hands demanding that the media "ignore Bill Donohue." Their complaint? My telling the truth about the role homosexual priests have played in the abuse scandal.

The data collected by John Jay College of Criminal Justice show that between 1950 and 2002, 81 percent of the victims were male and 75 percent of them were post-pubescent. In other words, three out of every four victims have been abused by homosexuals. By the way, puberty, according to the American Academy of Pediatrics, begins at age 10 for boys.

No problem can be remedied without an accurate diagnosis. And any accurate diagnosis that does not finger the role that homosexuals have played in molesting minors is intellectually dishonest. The cover-up must end. And so must attempts to muzzle my voice. Everything I am saying is what most people already know, but are afraid to say it. It's time for some straight talk.[3]

Bill Donahue published in the New York Times:

The Times continues to editorialize about the "pedophilia crisis", when all along it's been a homosexual crisis. Eighty percent of the victims of priestly sexual abuse are male and most of them are post-pubescent. While homosexuality does not cause predatory behavior, and most gay priests are not molesters, most of the molesters have been gay.[4]

Good fruit of Protestantism:

See also: Protestant cultural legacies and Christianity and social stability

The atheist and Harvard University historian Niall Ferguson declared: "Through a mixture of hard work and thrift the Protestant societies of the North and West Atlantic achieved the most rapid economic growth in history."[5]

The article The Surprising Discovery About Those Colonialist, Proselytizing Missionaries published in Christianity Today notes:

In his fifth year of graduate school, Woodberry created a statistical model that could test the connection between missionary work and the health of nations. He and a few research assistants spent two years coding data and refining their methods. They hoped to compute the lasting effect of missionaries, on average, worldwide...

One morning, in a windowless, dusty computer lab lit by fluorescent bulbs, Woodberry ran the first big test. After he finished prepping the statistical program on his computer, he clicked "Enter" and then leaned forward to read the results.

"I was shocked," says Woodberry. "It was like an atomic bomb. The impact of missions on global democracy was huge. I kept adding variables to the model—factors that people had been studying and writing about for the past 40 years—and they all got wiped out. It was amazing. I knew, then, I was on to something really important."

Woodberry already had historical proof that missionaries had educated women and the poor, promoted widespread printing, led nationalist movements that empowered ordinary citizens, and fueled other key elements of democracy. Now the statistics were backing it up: Missionaries weren't just part of the picture. They were central to it...

Areas where Protestant missionaries had a significant presence in the past are on average more economically developed today, with comparatively better health, lower infant mortality, lower corruption, greater literacy, higher educational attainment (especially for women), and more robust membership in nongovernmental associations.

In short: Want a blossoming democracy today? The solution is simple—if you have a time machine: Send a 19th-century missionary."[6]

The Eurozone financial crisis was primarily caused by the spendthrift PIGS countries (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain).[1]

4 out of the 5 of the PIGS countries are Catholic. None of them were Protestant. Greece is Eastern Orthodox.

The atheist and Harvard University historian Niall Ferguson declared: "Through a mixture of hard work and thrift the Protestant societies of the North and West Atlantic achieved the most rapid economic growth in history."[7] See also: Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism

Protestantism vs. Catholicism and political corruption (Widespread political corruption in Catholic countries):

The Eurozone financial crisis was primarily caused by the spendthrift PIGS countries (Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain).[6]

4 out of the 5 of the PIGS countries are Catholic. None of them were Protestant. Greece is Eastern Orthodox.

In summary, I will repeat the words of the Protestant Martin Luther who launched the Protestant Reformation: "Here I stand. I can do no other."

User:Shobson20

The Pope (and Catholic authority) has taught a different Gospel

Pope Francis has run against Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!" [7]

The Catholic authority says "faith and works" but the Bible says "Faith and NOT works." [8][9] Romans 11:6 says that adding works into the equation nullifies the concept of grace, therefore, they CANNOT mix.

Critical thinking vs appeal to authority

So far, the Catholic side of this debate has relied on appeals to authority from people who happen to agree with the Catholic interpretation regarding the Apostle Peter. However, the Protestant side has used critical thinking to actually compare whether the teachings of the Roman Catholic Magesterium has been consistent with the teachings of Scripture. Mike Winger in the video linked above shows conclusively that Pope Francis has not. James G. McCarthy created a simple Pamphlet detailing how Roman Catholic doctrine is in conflict with the word of God in several places: [10] and authored the longer "The Gospel According to Rome: Comparing Catholic Tradition and the Word of God." [11] Richard Bennett, former Catholic Priest of 20 years details the doctrinal problems and bad fruits of the Catholic Church in Catholicism: East of Eden [12]

Catholics leave the Catholic Church when they study scripture for themselves

User:RobSmith was raised Catholic, but said in his own talk page:


"In parochial school I heard the word read everyday at mass for 8 years, and it didn't square up with what we were taught in catechism and religion class. The priests and nuns couldn't resolve the questions where the Roman Church and bible seemed to be in direct conflict. I wasn't alone in this - I have three brothers and numerous friends who also were confused by the contradictions. In those days Catholic law forbade independent reading of the scripture.

We used to joke about the Assumption of Mary, that Church law and church tradition "assumed" Mary was levitated cause it appears nowhere in the Bible. Image the shock years later when you discover that the joke is literally true."

Former Catholic priest Richard Bennett left the Catholic Church when he began to seriously study the Bible: [13]


While I had learned earlier that God’s Word is absolute, I still went through this agony of trying to maintain the Roman Catholic Church as holding more authority than God’s Word, even in issues where the Church of Rome was saying the exact opposite to what was in the Bible. How could this be? First, it was my own fault. If I had accepted the authority of the Bible as supreme, I would have been convicted by God’s Word to give up my priestly role as mediator, but that was too precious to me. Second, no one ever questioned what I did as a priest. Christians from overseas came to Mass, saw our sacred oils, holy water, medals, statues, vestments, rituals, and never said a word! The marvelous style, symbolism, music, and artistic taste of the Roman Church were all very captivating. Incense not only smells pungent, but to the mind it spells mystery.

Former Catholic nun Alicia Simpson likewise: [14]


In due time, I went with a bus from our church. For the first time in my life I found myself in a vast evangelical gathering. I had no idea what was going on. There I saw the words, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life”, and I heard for the first time the words, “Ye must be born again.” There was a new way of preaching from the Bible, very different from anything I had ever heard. My interest was truly aroused and questions were arising in my mind. Was there salvation outside the Church of Rome? The preacher said that salvation was obtained through believing in the finished work of Christ at Calvary, not through belonging to any particular church. All my training and indoctrination denied such a possibility. But this preacher kept asking us to repent and come to Christ for the forgiveness of sins. Who was right?

Yes. The Catholic Church does have the biblical authority of Jesus Christ

Biblically, the answer is yes.

For Three Reasons (1) St. Peter as Rock means he has been appointed Chief Bishop or Pope of the Church. (2) The Power of Binding and Loosing in Rabbinic Theology means the Power to issue binding judgments and loose pardon for sins, to teach authoritatively as a magisterium. (3) The Keys in light of Isa 22 mean that St. Peter has the Chief Authority of the Royal Steward, who authoritatively made judgments in the name of the King

See here for some Protestant commentaries that acknowledge this Truth. [8]

St. Peter is the Rock on which the Church on Earth is built

R.T. France (Anglican/Protestant Evangelical)

"The name Peter means 'Rock', and Jesus played on this meaning to designate Peter as the foundation of the new people of God. His leadership would involve the authority of the steward, whose keys symbolized his responsibility to regulate the affairs of the household. Peter would exercise his leadership by his authority to declare what is and is not permissible in the kingdom of heaven (to bind and to loose have this meaning in rabbinic writings)....It is sometimes suggested that because the word for 'rock' (petra) differs from the name Petros, the 'rock' referred to is not Peter himself but the confession he has just made of Jesus as Messiah. In Aramaic, however, the same term kefa would appear in both places; the change in Greek is due to the fact that petra, the normal word for rock, is feminine in gender, and therefore not suitable as a name for Simon! The echo of Peter's name remains obvious, even in Greek; he is the rock, in the sense outlined above." (France, New Bible Commentary with consulting editors Carson, France, Motyer, Wenham [Intervarsity Press, 1994], page 925, 926)

Oscar Cullmann, Theological Dictionary

"The obvious pun which has made its way into the Gk. text as well suggests a material identity between petra and petros, the more so as it is impossible to differentiate strictly between the meanings of the two words. On the other hand, only the fairly assured Aramaic original of the saying enables us to assert with confidence the formal and material identity between petra and petros: petra = Kepha = petros....Since Peter, the rock of the Church, is thus given by Christ Himself, the master of the house (Is. 22:22; Rev. 3:7), the keys of the kingdom of heaven, he is the human mediator of the resurrection, and he has the task of admitting the people of God into the kingdom of the resurrection...The idea of the Reformers that He is referring to the faith of Peter is quite inconceivable in view of the probably different setting of the story...For there is no reference here to the faith of Peter. Rather, the parallelism of 'thou art Rock' and 'on this rock I will build' shows that the second rock can only be the same as the first. It is thus evident that Jesus is referring to Peter, to whom He has given the name Rock. He appoints Peter, the impulsive, enthusiastic, but not persevering man in the circle, to be the foundation of His ecclesia. To this extent Roman Catholic exegesis is right and all Protestant attempts to evade this interpretation are to be rejected." (Cullmann, article on "Rock" (petros, petra) trans. and ed. by Geoffrey W. Bromiley, Theological Dictionary of the New Testament [Eerdmans Publishing, 1968], volume 6, page 98, 107, 108)

The Key of the Royal Steward stand for his authority to bind and to loose, to open doors and to close them

Eduard Schweizer (Presbyterian/Reformed)

"In Jewish interpretation, the key of David refers to the teachers of the Law (exiled in Babylon); according to Matthew 23:13, the 'keys of the Kingdom of heaven' are in the hands of the teachers of the Law. A contrast is here drawn between them and Peter. He is thus not the gatekeeper of heaven, but the steward of the Kingdom of heaven upon earth. His function is described in more detail as 'binding and loosing' ....the saying must from the very outset have referred to an authority like that of the teachers of the Law. In this context, 'binding" and 'loosing' refer to the magisterium to declare a commandment binding or not binding....For Matthew, however, there is only one correct interpretation of the Law, that of Jesus. This is accessible to the community through the tradition of Peter...Probably we are dealing here mostly with teaching authority, and always with the understanding that God must ratify what Petrine tradition declares permitted or forbidden in the community." (Schweizer, page 343)

Willoughby C. Allen, The International Critical Commentary

"The figure of the gates of Hades suggests the metaphor of the keys. There were keys of Hades, Rev 1:18; cf. 9:1; 20:1. The apocalyptic writer describes the risen Christ as having the keys of Hades, i.e. having power over it, power to enter it, and power to release from it, or to imprison in it. In the same way, 'the kingdom of the heavens' can be likened to a citadel with barred gates. He who held the keys would have power within it, power to admit, power to exclude. In Rev 3:7 this power is held by Christ Himself [quotes Rev 3:7]...The words are modelled on Is 22:22, and express supreme authority. To hold the keys is to have absolute right, which can be contested by none...It would, therefore, be not unexpected if we found the Messiah or Son of Man described as having the keys of the kingdom of the heavens. This would imply that He was supreme within it. But it is surprising to find this power delegated to S. Peter...To S. Peter were to be given the keys of the kingdom. The kingdom is here, as elsewhere in this Gospel, the kingdom to be inaugurated when the Son of Man came upon the clouds of heaven. If S. Peter was to hold supreme authority within it, the other apostles were also to have places of rank...To 'bind' and to 'loose' in Jewish legal terminology are equivalent to 'forbid' and 'allow,' to 'declare forbidden' and to 'declare allowed'...The terms, therefore, describe an authority of a legal nature. If he who has the keys has authority of an administrative nature, he who binds and looses exercises authority of a legislative character....Further, the position of v. 18, with its description of the Church as a fortress impregnable against the attacks of evil (the gates of Hades), suggest irresistibly that 'the keys of the kingdom' mean more than power to open merely, and imply rather authority within the kingdom. And this is confirmed by the 'binding' and 'loosing' which immediately follow...What were the keys thus given? Even if we identify the kingdom with the Church, it is not entirely satisfactory to suppose that the Lord simply foretold that S. Peter was to take a prominent part in the work of opening the door of faith to the Gentiles. His share in that work, though a great, was not an exclusive one....The motive must have been to emphasise the prominence of S. Peter in the Christan body as foretold and sanctioned by Christ Himself...They [the apostles] had left all to follow Christ; but when He sat on the throne of His glory they would sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel, 19:18. And amongst them Peter was pre-eminent. He was protos, 10:2." (Allen, The International Critical Commentary [orig 1909, 1985], page 176ff)

Binding and loosing mean Authoritative Pronouncements and Teaching Magisterium

William F. Albright and C.S. Mann comment on Matthew 16:19

"Isaiah 22:15ff undoubtedly lies behind this saying. The keys are the symbol of authority, and Roland de Vaux [Ancient Israel, tr. by John McHugh, NY: McGraw-Hill, 1961] rightly sees here the same authority as that vested in the vizier, the master of the house, the chamberlain, of the royal household in ancient Israel. Eliakim is described as having the same authority in Isaiah; it was Hilkiah's position until he was ousted, and Jotham as regent is also described as 'over the household' [2 Kings 15:5]....It is of considerable importance that in other contexts, when the disciplinary affairs of the community are being discussed [cf. Matt 18:18; John 20:23] the symbol of the keys is absent, since the sayings apply in those instances to a wider circle....The role of Peter as steward of the Kingdom is further explained as being the exercise of administrative authority, as was the case of the OT chamberlain who held the 'keys.' The clauses 'on earth,' 'in heaven', have reference to the permanent character of the steward's work." (Albright/Mann, The Anchor Bible: Matthew, page 196-197)

References

  1. https://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26940
  2. http://www.daily49er.com/opinion/our-view-catholic-church-needs-administrative-reform-1.2200659
  3. ATTEMPTS TO CENSOR DONOHUE FAIL.April 1, 2010 by Bill
  4. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/31/bill-donohue-catholic-sex_n_520187.html
  5. The Protestant Work Ethic: Alive & Well…In China By Hugh Whelchel on September 24, 2012
  6. Christianity Today, The Surprising Discovery About Those Colonialist, Proselytizing Missionaries, January 8, 2014
  7. The Protestant Work Ethic: Alive & Well…In China By Hugh Whelchel on September 24, 2012
  8. http://www.biblicalcatholic.com/apologetics/PeterRockKeysPrimacyRome.htm