Talk:Sexual discrimination - Revision history

ArnoldLarny at 20:42, November 1, 2009

2009-11-01T20:42:39Z

AddisonDM: Talk:Sexual Discrimination moved to Talk:Sexual discrimination

2009-01-03T17:44:47Z

Talk:Sexual Discrimination moved to Talk:Sexual discrimination

AnnieL: /* Incomplete */ new section

2008-11-01T17:59:28Z

Incomplete: new section

TK: Talk:Sexism moved to Talk:Sexual Discrimination: Admin decides what is or will not be redirected, thank you.

2007-09-18T01:25:22Z

Talk:Sexism moved to Talk:Sexual Discrimination: Admin decides what is or will not be redirected, thank you.

Ungtss: /* Celtish: We really need to substantiate these claims by discussing them on the talkpage. */

2007-09-15T19:59:26Z

Celtish: We really need to substantiate these claims by discussing them on the talkpage.

Samwell: /* Celtish: We really need to substantiate these claims by discussing them on the talkpage. */

2007-09-15T19:56:58Z

Celtish: We really need to substantiate these claims by discussing them on the talkpage.

Ungtss: Celtish: We really need to substantiate these claims by discussing them on the talkpage.

2007-09-15T19:50:44Z

Celtish: We really need to substantiate these claims by discussing them on the talkpage.

Ungtss: working version

2007-09-15T19:23:19Z

working version

Celtish: Robert Sheaffer

2007-09-15T19:18:46Z

Robert Sheaffer

Ungtss at 19:08, September 15, 2007

2007-09-15T19:08:10Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:42, November 1, 2009
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	I am ''extremely'' skeptical about some of the allegations in the "33 indicators" section (especially the percent of wealth controlled -- how do they define "control?"). Please provide some substantiation -- thanks. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:08, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		I am ''extremely'' skeptical about some of the allegations in the "33 indicators" section (especially the percent of wealth controlled -- how do they define "control?"). Please provide some substantiation -- thanks. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:08, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	== Serious problems ==
		+	I'm tempted to blank this article and start again- It's poorly sourced, seems to be very biased (section on sexism against men, and not sexism against women ?!) and doesn't really give a general explanation of sexism. I'm not going to be too aggressive on this one, but although sexism against men does exist, the examples given are very poor. We need to focus on sexism within divorce law e.t.c. I don't really see how women's only carriages constitute discrimination. That's about women's safety. Sexism against women section should include things about women's suffrage and rape. Anyone else agree ? If you do, I'm going to do a bit of rewriting [[User:ArnoldLarny\|ArnoldLarny]] 15:42, 1 November 2009 (EST)
		+

	== Robert Sheaffer ==		== Robert Sheaffer ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:59, November 1, 2008
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	:Yes, the entire articles seems to be from this [http://wiki.mensactivism.org/index.php/Sexism wiki], the source of which does not comport well with the [[Conservapedia:Copyright\|copyright]] notice of the wiki we're currently on.[[User Talk:Samwell\|Samwell]] 15:56, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		:Yes, the entire articles seems to be from this [http://wiki.mensactivism.org/index.php/Sexism wiki], the source of which does not comport well with the [[Conservapedia:Copyright\|copyright]] notice of the wiki we're currently on.[[User Talk:Samwell\|Samwell]] 15:56, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
	:: I noticed that, but it appears the same user wrote this stuff over there. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:59, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		:: I noticed that, but it appears the same user wrote this stuff over there. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:59, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	== Incomplete ==
		+
		+	This article makes no mention of sexism against women. Of course, now days, there is as much sexism against men as against women. But it is bad to not mention sexism against women, which used to happen a lot and still happens to this day. Though of course, I might be wrong... But that is just a first impression

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:59, September 15, 2007
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	Thanks! [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:50, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		Thanks! [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:50, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
	:Yes, the entire articles seems to be from this [http://wiki.mensactivism.org/index.php/Sexism wiki], the source of which does not comport well with the [[Conservapedia:Copyright\|copyright]] notice of the wiki we're currently on.[[User Talk:Samwell\|Samwell]] 15:56, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		:Yes, the entire articles seems to be from this [http://wiki.mensactivism.org/index.php/Sexism wiki], the source of which does not comport well with the [[Conservapedia:Copyright\|copyright]] notice of the wiki we're currently on.[[User Talk:Samwell\|Samwell]] 15:56, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+	:: I noticed that, but it appears the same user wrote this stuff over there. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:59, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:56, September 15, 2007
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	Thanks! [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:50, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		Thanks! [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:50, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+	:Yes, the entire articles seems to be from this [http://wiki.mensactivism.org/index.php/Sexism wiki], the source of which does not comport well with the [[Conservapedia:Copyright\|copyright]] notice of the wiki we're currently on.[[User Talk:Samwell\|Samwell]] 15:56, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:50, September 15, 2007
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	30. BREADWINNER BIAS: A man who earns less than his wife is looked down upon by his wife and by society, even though many social, political, and economic forces are coalescing to make this situation more common than it once was.		30. BREADWINNER BIAS: A man who earns less than his wife is looked down upon by his wife and by society, even though many social, political, and economic forces are coalescing to make this situation more common than it once was.
	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	== Celtish: We really need to substantiate these claims by discussing them on the talkpage. ==
		+
		+	Thanks! [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:50, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

← Older revision	Revision as of 17:44, January 3, 2009
(No difference)

← Older revision	Revision as of 01:25, September 18, 2007
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← Older revision		Revision as of 19:23, September 15, 2007
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	Thank you. Statistics come from [[Robert Sheaffer]] an acknowledged researcher. I have added a [[Robert Sheaffer]] page which has a lead to his website.		Thank you. Statistics come from [[Robert Sheaffer]] an acknowledged researcher. I have added a [[Robert Sheaffer]] page which has a lead to his website.
		+
		+	== working version ==
		+
		+	1. WEALTH: Women hold 65% of the country's wealth [Fortune Magazine]
		+	* cite? [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+	2. CHILD CUSTODY: Women receive custody of 92% of the children of divorce and illegitimacy, and men only 4%. [U.S. Department of Health & Human Services]
		+	* This needs to be corrected for the fact that most men don't ''want'' the kids. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+	3. INCOME: Men constitute 60% of workplace hours, work longer hours, work harder, and are more qualified, rarely file sexual discrimination or harassment lawsuits or take pregnancy leave, yet earn only 42% more than women [U.S. Dept. of Labor]
		+	* Please substantiate your claim that men work harder are are more qualified. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	4. SUICIDE: Men's suicide rate is 4.6 times higher than women's [Dept. of Health & Human Services - 26,710 males vs 5,700 females]
		+	* How is this sexism? [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	5. LIFE EXPECTANCY: Men's life expectancy is seven years shorter than women's [National Center for Health Statistics - males 72.3 yrs vs. females 79 yrs] yet receive only 35% of government expenditures for health care and medical costs.
		+	* This stat is misleading. Men are notoriously less apt to avail themselves of medical care. My grandpa was so stubborn he let his toe rot with gangrene! Plus, this doesn't take into account pregnancy expenses for women, and the fact that those last 7 years of life are very medically expensive for women. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	6. AFFIRMATIVE ACTION: Men are discriminated against BY DESIGN through so-called 'affirmative action'.
		+	* More specific? [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	7. FEDERAL TAXES: Even though men pay 115% of federal income taxes women constitute 11% more of the voters.
		+	* Men pay 115% of federal income taxes? What does that mean? And how is this consistent with your claim that women control 65% of the wealth? Doesn't this mean that men make more money? [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	8. VOTE: Because there are 11% more female than male voters, males have little to no influence on how the male tax dollar is spent.
		+	* But only 15.5% of congress is female! [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	9. WAR: Mostly men, not women, fight and die in battle [Dept. Defense - Vietnam Casualties 47,369 men vs. 74 women] while women sue the taxpayer when they have their butts pinched.
		+	* How is this discrimination? [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	10. WORKPLACE FATALITIES: Men account for more than 95% of workplace fatalities.
		+	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	11. MURDER: Men are murdered at a rate almost five times that of women [Dept. Health & Human Services - 26,710 men vs 5,700 women]
		+	* And who's killing them? [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	12. JURY BIAS: Women are acquitted of spousal murder at a rate 9 times that of men [Bureau Justice Statistics - 1.4% of men vs. 12.9% of women]
		+	* This is misleading because it doesn't take the facts of the cases into account -- what about women defending themselves?
		+
		+	13. COURT BIAS: Men are sentenced 2.8 times longer than women for spousal murder [Bureau Justice Statistics - men at 17 years vs women at 6 years]
		+	* Again, this is misleading because it doesn't take the facts of the cases into account.
		+
		+	14. JUSTICE SYSTEM BIAS: Even though the amount of the average 'child support payment' due from women is half the amount due from men, and even though women are twice as likely as men to default on those payments, fathers are 97% of 'child support' collections prosecutions [Census Bureau]
		+	* Substantiate this please.
		+
		+	15. WELFARE: Even though men are the recipients of less than 10% of all welfare disbursements, men are required to refund welfare payments made to women.
		+	* Substantiate this please.
		+
		+	16. SECONDARY EDUCATION: Even though zero percent of American 12th grade girls were able to correctly answer basic maths and physics questions, less than one quarter of America's secondary and elementary school teachers are men.
		+	* This can't possibly be true. 0%? Seriously?
		+
		+	17. HIGHER EDUCATION: There are more than 200 all-female colleges for women and now not one single all-male college for men. 5.8% fewer men than women are enrolled in 4 year colleges, even though two thirds of those who score higher than 550 in SAT Maths are males. In 1993 only 44.5% of college enrollments were men, and that figure has declined since then. Only 45.8% of of bachelor's degrees were conferred to men in 1992, even though 98.2% of the top fiftieth percentile of the GRE are men, and ZERO PERCENT of American high school girls correctly answered 28 out of 67 TIMSS advanced math questions. Only 38.4% of private 4-year college students were men as of 1990.
		+	* Substantiate this please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	18. LEGAL SYSTEM BIAS: 96% of physical altercations resulting in injury to a spouse occurs AFTER the date of separation. [Read: spousal abuse laws that pretend that husbands are dangerous discriminate against husbands when we know that only a very small percent of domestic violence is associated with them]. [Chadwick and Heaton, "Statistical Handbook of the American Family"]
		+	* This cannot possibly be true. Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	19. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: Even though study after study show that women are mostly the initiators of domestic violence, and 58% of the above mentioned physical altercations are initiated by the female, Congress passed the obviously anti-male VAWA and VAWA II which are known would make the problem far worse. [Read: despite the fact we discriminate against husbands in protective orders, women still cause more than half of domestic altercations because they know they can get away with it].
		+	* Substantiate please.
		+
		+	20. CHILD VIOLENCE: Even though mothers commit 55% of child murders and biological fathers commit 6%, even though NIS-3 shows that Mother-only households are 3 times more fatal to children than Father-only households, children are systematically removed from the natural fathers who are their most effective protectors and men are imprisoned at rate 20 times that of women.
		+	* Substantiate please.
		+
		+	21. FAMILY BREAKDOWN: The U.S. Surgeon-General notes that divorce is more harmful to a man's health than smoking tobacco, yet as much as $1.3 trillion of federal expenditures accomplish little else than undermine family stability.
		+	* Substantiate this please.
		+
		+	22. WOMEN PILOTS: Even though women pilots have an accident rate four times that of men pilots, federal laws require that airlines risk the safety of passengers and hire women pilots anyway.
		+	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	23. WOMEN DRIVERS: Even though the crash rate of women drivers is twice that of men drivers, and even though drinking alcohol increases the crash rate of men by only 5%, the majority of those imprisoned under DUI laws are men, and women are almost never imprisoned for their much higher number of non-alcohol-related crashes.
		+	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	24. INCARCERATION: Even though feminists brag that 1.4 million American brides commit adultery, and even though women file more than 90,000 false allegations of rape, every year, only 99,000 of the 1.8 million Americans behind bars are women.
		+	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	25. GENDER REASSIGNMENT: Male-to-female gender reassignment surgeries outnumber female to male surgeries by five to one.
		+	* How is this discrimination? [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	26. MEDIA BIAS: Few intact, healthy, male-headed families are portrayed in movies and on TV. Men, especially fathers, are portrayed as helpless buffoons. (See Media Portrayal of Men and Women)
		+	* Who's writing the plots? [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	27. RACIAL BIAS: The only people with a shorter life expectancy in 2000 than in 1980 are black men. Black women, who are regarded as being doubly disadvantaged, live 3 years longer than white men.
		+	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	28: INSURANCE BIAS: While men's shorter life expectancy is a factor in higher male life insurance premiums, women pay less for car and health insurance, even though they make more claims.
		+	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	29. DEATH PENALTY: Almost all Death Row inmates are men. Other than for Eileen Wournos, who was executed in 1997 for man-killing, no woman has been executed since 1954.
		+	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	30. BREADWINNER BIAS: A man who earns less than his wife is looked down upon by his wife and by society, even though many social, political, and economic forces are coalescing to make this situation more common than it once was.
		+	* Substantiate please. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:23, 15 September 2007 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:18, September 15, 2007
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	I am ''extremely'' skeptical about some of the allegations in the "33 indicators" section (especially the percent of wealth controlled -- how do they define "control?"). Please provide some substantiation -- thanks. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:08, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		I am ''extremely'' skeptical about some of the allegations in the "33 indicators" section (especially the percent of wealth controlled -- how do they define "control?"). Please provide some substantiation -- thanks. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:08, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	== Robert Sheaffer ==
		+
		+	Thank you. Statistics come from [[Robert Sheaffer]] an acknowledged researcher. I have added a [[Robert Sheaffer]] page which has a lead to his website.

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:08, September 15, 2007
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	This article is desperately in need of some citation and quotation. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 14:48, 15 September 2007 (EDT)		This article is desperately in need of some citation and quotation. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 14:48, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
		+
		+	I am ''extremely'' skeptical about some of the allegations in the "33 indicators" section (especially the percent of wealth controlled -- how do they define "control?"). Please provide some substantiation -- thanks. [[User:Ungtss\|Ungtss]] 15:08, 15 September 2007 (EDT)