Talk:High fructose corn syrup - Revision history

Mike127: the relative toxicity of fructose was not answered in research article

2011-06-10T15:36:30Z

the relative toxicity of fructose was not answered in research article

DevonJ at 05:46, June 10, 2011

2011-06-10T05:46:27Z

Mike127 at 05:15, June 10, 2011

2011-06-10T05:15:58Z

Mike127: HFCS and its relationship to obesity

2011-06-10T05:15:34Z

HFCS and its relationship to obesity

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I am of the opinion that when it comes to HFCS and its relationship to obesity, one should not be as concerned with whether or not their food contains HFCS but rather the density of calories present in their food. This is a conclusion draw from the fact that HFCS is metabolized the same as sucrose and the only substantial difference between a food prepared with HFCS rather than sucrose is that it might have more calories per serving than a food of equivalent sweetness that is made with sucrose. I fell like this conclusion should be shared in the article some how but I'd rather not add my own opinion to the article. If medical literature is found that supports this opinion, should it be added to the article?

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:36, June 10, 2011
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	I am of the opinion that when it comes to HFCS and its relationship to obesity, one should not be as concerned with whether or not their food contains HFCS but rather the density of calories present in their food. This is a conclusion draw from the fact that HFCS is metabolized the same as sucrose and the only substantial difference between a food prepared with HFCS rather than sucrose is that it might have more calories per serving than a food of equivalent sweetness that is made with sucrose. I fell like this conclusion should be shared in the article some how but I'd rather not add my own opinion to the article. If medical literature is found that supports this opinion, should it be added to the article? --[[User:Mike127\|Mike127]] 01:15, 10 June 2011 (EDT)		I am of the opinion that when it comes to HFCS and its relationship to obesity, one should not be as concerned with whether or not their food contains HFCS but rather the density of calories present in their food. This is a conclusion draw from the fact that HFCS is metabolized the same as sucrose and the only substantial difference between a food prepared with HFCS rather than sucrose is that it might have more calories per serving than a food of equivalent sweetness that is made with sucrose. I fell like this conclusion should be shared in the article some how but I'd rather not add my own opinion to the article. If medical literature is found that supports this opinion, should it be added to the article? --[[User:Mike127\|Mike127]] 01:15, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
	:[http://blog.cincovidas.com/study-shows-cancer-cells-grow-on-high-fructose-corn-syrup At least one study] seems to show HFCS increase tumor growth. [[User:DevonJ\|DevonJ]] 01:46, 10 June 2011 (EDT)		:[http://blog.cincovidas.com/study-shows-cancer-cells-grow-on-high-fructose-corn-syrup At least one study] seems to show HFCS increase tumor growth. [[User:DevonJ\|DevonJ]] 01:46, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
		+	::Yes, this research article, published in a well regarded scientific journal ([http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/70/15/6368.abstract?sid=39286e74-b4b1-400e-b4c9-6eec4271fd2f the abstract is available here]) does indicate that tumor growth is accelerated in the presence of fructose. But what's important to remember is '''context'''. The typical downfall of the lay media when reporting on medical research is the omission of important comparisons. For example, ‘’’water is toxic, but at what dose?’’’ The dose that yields 50% mortality amongst an experimental group is called the LD<sub>50</sub> (lethal-dose 50%) and this is the value that should be compared to other agents in order to gauge the toxicity of a substance. In the case of water, its LD<sub>50</sub> is about 3-5 gallons orally over a short period of time (less than 5 mins) for an average adult male (the figure may be diffident depending on the particular circumstances but never changes more than an order of magnitude). That comes out to be roughly 160 grams of water per kilogram body weight (or more commonly written 160,000 mg/kg). For comparison, let's look at cocaine, it has an LD<sub>50</sub> of roughly 300 mg/kg (depending on the purity of the drug and how fast the dose is received). So comparing the LD<sub>50</sub> values of water vs. cocaine, you'll see there's a ~533-fold difference in LD<sub>50</sub> values, thus one could say that the dose of water that will kill a person is roughly 533 times larger than the dose of cocaine that would kill a person. Batrachotoxin (from a poison dart frog) has an LD<sub>50</sub> of about 0.01 mg/kg, that's 30,000-fold more toxic than cocaine and 16,000,000-fold more toxic than water. Obviously, water is not very toxic at any reasonable dose, a moderate doe of cocaine, though not good for you due to the addictive nature of the drug, is not nearly as toxic as batrachotoxin, which the slightest whisper of batrachotoxin is enough to kill several full grown men.
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		+	::So my point is that without context the lay media has a tendancy to illustrate any scientific finds where a drug or chemical is shown to have some level of toxicity (or in this case the propensity to enhance tumor growth) as evidence that any dose of the drug or chemical is hazardous. There are always "safe doses" and there are always "dangerous doses" of a compound, whether we are talking about water or batrachotoxin. So is fructose dangerous? The answer is no, not at the dose that humans normally ingest over the course of their lives.
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		+	::We must also look at these results in relation to glucose, which has been found to have a similar level of toxicity as fructose (or in the case of the above mentioned article, propensity to enhance tumor growth). Also keep in mind a very critical fact - high fructose corn syrup is about a 50/50 ratio of fructose to glucose, the same as table sugar, which is a disaccharide called sucrose (sucrose is a chemical that is made of one part glucose and one part fructose that are chemically linked to each other). So, the question is now: ''is there any appreciable (and I stress the word appreciable) difference between how these tumor cells react in the presence of high fructose corn syrup vs. sucrose (table sugar)?'' By that I mean: ''what are the respective LD<sub>50</sub> values for high fructose corn syrup vs. sucrose when it comes to tumor formation and proliferation?'' This question was not answered by this research article, and I am doubtful that even if a small difference in LD<sub>50</sub> values is found that it would make any substantial difference to the average person with a reasonably healthy diet. --[[User:Mike127\|Mike127]] 11:36, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:46, June 10, 2011
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	I am of the opinion that when it comes to HFCS and its relationship to obesity, one should not be as concerned with whether or not their food contains HFCS but rather the density of calories present in their food. This is a conclusion draw from the fact that HFCS is metabolized the same as sucrose and the only substantial difference between a food prepared with HFCS rather than sucrose is that it might have more calories per serving than a food of equivalent sweetness that is made with sucrose. I fell like this conclusion should be shared in the article some how but I'd rather not add my own opinion to the article. If medical literature is found that supports this opinion, should it be added to the article? --[[User:Mike127\|Mike127]] 01:15, 10 June 2011 (EDT)		I am of the opinion that when it comes to HFCS and its relationship to obesity, one should not be as concerned with whether or not their food contains HFCS but rather the density of calories present in their food. This is a conclusion draw from the fact that HFCS is metabolized the same as sucrose and the only substantial difference between a food prepared with HFCS rather than sucrose is that it might have more calories per serving than a food of equivalent sweetness that is made with sucrose. I fell like this conclusion should be shared in the article some how but I'd rather not add my own opinion to the article. If medical literature is found that supports this opinion, should it be added to the article? --[[User:Mike127\|Mike127]] 01:15, 10 June 2011 (EDT)
		+	:[http://blog.cincovidas.com/study-shows-cancer-cells-grow-on-high-fructose-corn-syrup At least one study] seems to show HFCS increase tumor growth. [[User:DevonJ\|DevonJ]] 01:46, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:15, June 10, 2011
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−	I am of the opinion that when it comes to HFCS and its relationship to obesity, one should not be as concerned with whether or not their food contains HFCS but rather the density of calories present in their food. This is a conclusion draw from the fact that HFCS is metabolized the same as sucrose and the only substantial difference between a food prepared with HFCS rather than sucrose is that it might have more calories per serving than a food of equivalent sweetness that is made with sucrose. I fell like this conclusion should be shared in the article some how but I'd rather not add my own opinion to the article. If medical literature is found that supports this opinion, should it be added to the article?	+	I am of the opinion that when it comes to HFCS and its relationship to obesity, one should not be as concerned with whether or not their food contains HFCS but rather the density of calories present in their food. This is a conclusion draw from the fact that HFCS is metabolized the same as sucrose and the only substantial difference between a food prepared with HFCS rather than sucrose is that it might have more calories per serving than a food of equivalent sweetness that is made with sucrose. I fell like this conclusion should be shared in the article some how but I'd rather not add my own opinion to the article. If medical literature is found that supports this opinion, should it be added to the article? --[[User:Mike127\|Mike127]] 01:15, 10 June 2011 (EDT)