Talk:Fascism - Revision history

RobSmith: /* Left or right? */

2022-03-11T21:51:15Z

Left or right?

Jackin the box: /* Left or right? */ Meaningless insult/slovenly language

2022-03-11T17:43:38Z

Left or right?: Meaningless insult/slovenly language

RobSmith: /* Left or right? */

2022-03-11T17:21:08Z

Left or right?

RobSmith: /* Left or right? */

2022-03-11T16:22:35Z

Left or right?

RobSmith: /* Left or right? */

2022-03-11T16:21:11Z

Left or right?

RobSmith: /* Left or right? */

2022-03-11T16:17:05Z

Left or right?

RobSmith: /* Left or right? */

2022-03-11T16:16:04Z

Left or right?

Jackin the box: /* Left or right? */ The word "fascism" is meaningless according to George Orwell

2022-03-11T15:24:58Z

Left or right?: The word "fascism" is meaningless according to George Orwell

RobSmith: /* Left or right? */

2022-02-18T12:16:09Z

Left or right?

Pokeria1: /* Left or right? */

2022-02-18T12:09:57Z

Left or right?

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 ::Orwell's point is that both left and right uses the word "fascist" as a meaningless insult, and  ignore history.  --[[User:Jackin the box|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box|talk]]) 12:43, March 11, 2022 (EST)
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 :My two cents: the confusing ideology of leftism has made it so. More evidence of the flawed Left-Right paradigm.
 :The Left-Right paradigm seeks to pigeon hole all of human history, traditions and complex ideologies into a simplified system targeting children's minds with a rule of thumb, "Left = good, Right = bad" with no further study or analysis.  It's a ridiculous argument.  The net result is adult citizens and voters with a political education that never advances beyond a ten-year-old. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 11:16, March 11, 2022 (EST)
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 According to [[George Orwell]], "the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else".<ref>George Orwell: ‘What is Fascism?’ First published: ''Tribune''.  London., 1944. Reprinted: ''The Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters of George Orwell’.'  1968..</ref>  Hence the confusion, as to whether it's left or right! --[[User:Jackin the box|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box|talk]]) 10:24, March 11, 2022 (EST)
 :My two cents: the confusing ideology of leftism has made it so. More evidence of the flawed Left-Right paradigm.
-:The Left-Right paradigm seeks to pigeon all of human history, traditions and complex ideologies into a simplified system targeting children's minds with a rule of thumb, "Left = good, Right = bad" with no further study or analysis.  It's a ridiculous argument.  The net result is adult citizens and voters with a political education that never advances beyond a ten-year-old. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 11:16, March 11, 2022 (EST)
+:The Left-Right paradigm seeks to pigeon hole all of human history, traditions and complex ideologies into a simplified system targeting children's minds with a rule of thumb, "Left = good, Right = bad" with no further study or analysis.  It's a ridiculous argument.  The net result is adult citizens and voters with a political education that never advances beyond a ten-year-old. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 11:16, March 11, 2022 (EST)
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 {{reflist}}

@@ Line 150: / Line 150: @@
 According to [[George Orwell]], "the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else".<ref>George Orwell: ‘What is Fascism?’ First published: ''Tribune''.  London., 1944. Reprinted: ''The Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters of George Orwell’.'  1968..</ref>  Hence the confusion, as to whether it's left or right! --[[User:Jackin the box|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box|talk]]) 10:24, March 11, 2022 (EST)
 :My two cents: the confusing ideology of leftism has made it so. More evidence of the flawed Left-Right paradigm.
-:The Left-Right paradigm seeks to pigeon human history, traditions and complex ideologies into a simplified system targeting children's minds with a rule of thumb, "Left = good, Right = bad" with no further study or analysis.  It's a ridiculous argument.  The net result is adult citizens and voters with a political education that never advances beyond a ten-year-old. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 11:16, March 11, 2022 (EST)
+:The Left-Right paradigm seeks to pigeon all of human history, traditions and complex ideologies into a simplified system targeting children's minds with a rule of thumb, "Left = good, Right = bad" with no further study or analysis.  It's a ridiculous argument.  The net result is adult citizens and voters with a political education that never advances beyond a ten-year-old. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 11:16, March 11, 2022 (EST)
 ===refs===
 {{reflist}}

@@ Line 150: / Line 150: @@
 According to [[George Orwell]], "the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else".<ref>George Orwell: ‘What is Fascism?’ First published: ''Tribune''.  London., 1944. Reprinted: ''The Collected Essays, Journalism and Letters of George Orwell’.'  1968..</ref>  Hence the confusion, as to whether it's left or right! --[[User:Jackin the box|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box|talk]]) 10:24, March 11, 2022 (EST)
 :My two cents: the confusing ideology of leftism has made it so. More evidence of the flawed Left-Right paradigm.
-:The Left-Right paradigm seeks to pigeon human history, traditions and complex ideologies into a simplified system targeting children's minds with a rule of thumb, "Left = good, Right = bad" with no further study or analysis.  It's a ridiculous argument. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 11:16, March 11, 2022 (EST)
+:The Left-Right paradigm seeks to pigeon human history, traditions and complex ideologies into a simplified system targeting children's minds with a rule of thumb, "Left = good, Right = bad" with no further study or analysis.  It's a ridiculous argument.  The net result is adult citizens and voters with a political education that never advances beyond a ten-year-old. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 11:16, March 11, 2022 (EST)
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← Older revision		Revision as of 12:16, February 18, 2022
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	::::::::Actually, those "corrupt" aims were precisely what Jesus Christ himself advocated. He didn't advocate for his followers to drink hemlock with him when he ascended into heaven with his father and abandon his flock, he established the church, and all those "corrupt" measures you criticize. And Jesus himself was MORE than willing to threaten sending people to Hell if they didn't follow his or his father's precise commands (in other words, using superstitious threats). And BTW, None other than one of Jesus's own disciples, St. Paul, advocated submitting to authority ultimately. And no, separation of church and state meant LITERALLY keeping the two apart, and in fact, even trying to destroy the church and ensure secularism alone ruled the day. THAT'S what true separation of church and state entailed, per even Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, both of whom, BTW, were huge admirers of Voltaire and his advocating for that, and that was PRECISELY what the Jacobins created with their de-christianization programs. And just as an FYI, [https://shamelesspopery.com/the-dark-side-of-martin-luther/ Martin Luther, the guy who formed protestantism as a whole, was a pretty corrupt guy]. [[User:Pokeria1\|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1\|talk]]) 07:09, February 18, 2022 (EST)		::::::::Actually, those "corrupt" aims were precisely what Jesus Christ himself advocated. He didn't advocate for his followers to drink hemlock with him when he ascended into heaven with his father and abandon his flock, he established the church, and all those "corrupt" measures you criticize. And Jesus himself was MORE than willing to threaten sending people to Hell if they didn't follow his or his father's precise commands (in other words, using superstitious threats). And BTW, None other than one of Jesus's own disciples, St. Paul, advocated submitting to authority ultimately. And no, separation of church and state meant LITERALLY keeping the two apart, and in fact, even trying to destroy the church and ensure secularism alone ruled the day. THAT'S what true separation of church and state entailed, per even Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, both of whom, BTW, were huge admirers of Voltaire and his advocating for that, and that was PRECISELY what the Jacobins created with their de-christianization programs. And just as an FYI, [https://shamelesspopery.com/the-dark-side-of-martin-luther/ Martin Luther, the guy who formed protestantism as a whole, was a pretty corrupt guy]. [[User:Pokeria1\|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1\|talk]]) 07:09, February 18, 2022 (EST)
		+
		+	:::::::::[https://youtu.be/9RLuNo8WfDQ Watch this scene from ''The Lepard'']; the representative of the civil administration shares the same office with the representative of the church. [[User:RobSmith\|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith\|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 07:16, February 18, 2022 (EST)

	:::OK, I'm beginning to understand why, one the one hand, some Americans call Democrats fascists, while, on the other, communists see ''all'' Americans as fascists. Also that Americans tend to use terms right and left, as well as socialism, quite differently from most other nations.--[[User:Jackin the box\|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box\|talk]]) 17:22, February 14, 2022 (EST)		:::OK, I'm beginning to understand why, one the one hand, some Americans call Democrats fascists, while, on the other, communists see ''all'' Americans as fascists. Also that Americans tend to use terms right and left, as well as socialism, quite differently from most other nations.--[[User:Jackin the box\|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box\|talk]]) 17:22, February 14, 2022 (EST)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:09, February 18, 2022
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	:::::::So while criticism of the ''Ancien Regime'' as being corrupt and coercive may be or are valid, that is not necessarily a green light for the state to pick up the charitable or "[[social contract]]" obligations originally deemed the purview of the church. That is what the "separation" or "free exercise" is supposed to mean. [[User:RobSmith\|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith\|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 06:50, February 18, 2022 (EST)		:::::::So while criticism of the ''Ancien Regime'' as being corrupt and coercive may be or are valid, that is not necessarily a green light for the state to pick up the charitable or "[[social contract]]" obligations originally deemed the purview of the church. That is what the "separation" or "free exercise" is supposed to mean. [[User:RobSmith\|RobS]]<sup>[[User talk:RobSmith\|Let's Go Brandon!]]</sup> 06:50, February 18, 2022 (EST)
		+
		+	::::::::Actually, those "corrupt" aims were precisely what Jesus Christ himself advocated. He didn't advocate for his followers to drink hemlock with him when he ascended into heaven with his father and abandon his flock, he established the church, and all those "corrupt" measures you criticize. And Jesus himself was MORE than willing to threaten sending people to Hell if they didn't follow his or his father's precise commands (in other words, using superstitious threats). And BTW, None other than one of Jesus's own disciples, St. Paul, advocated submitting to authority ultimately. And no, separation of church and state meant LITERALLY keeping the two apart, and in fact, even trying to destroy the church and ensure secularism alone ruled the day. THAT'S what true separation of church and state entailed, per even Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson, both of whom, BTW, were huge admirers of Voltaire and his advocating for that, and that was PRECISELY what the Jacobins created with their de-christianization programs. And just as an FYI, [https://shamelesspopery.com/the-dark-side-of-martin-luther/ Martin Luther, the guy who formed protestantism as a whole, was a pretty corrupt guy]. [[User:Pokeria1\|Pokeria1]] ([[User talk:Pokeria1\|talk]]) 07:09, February 18, 2022 (EST)

	:::OK, I'm beginning to understand why, one the one hand, some Americans call Democrats fascists, while, on the other, communists see ''all'' Americans as fascists. Also that Americans tend to use terms right and left, as well as socialism, quite differently from most other nations.--[[User:Jackin the box\|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box\|talk]]) 17:22, February 14, 2022 (EST)		:::OK, I'm beginning to understand why, one the one hand, some Americans call Democrats fascists, while, on the other, communists see ''all'' Americans as fascists. Also that Americans tend to use terms right and left, as well as socialism, quite differently from most other nations.--[[User:Jackin the box\|Jackin the box]] ([[User talk:Jackin the box\|talk]]) 17:22, February 14, 2022 (EST)