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Talk:Genesis 1-8 (Translated)

2009-10-16T17:51:32Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Genesis 1:3 */

Perhaps chapters one and two could be combined in some way so that they clearly tell the same story in the same order? Liberals often claim that they show two differently ordered creation stories and it would be a good idea to clarify this.--[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 15:09, 11 October 2009 (EDT)
:That's a major re-write, something we're not doing. While I agree we should make clear that Genesis 2:6-25 expands on what happened in Genesis 1:26-27, re-writing Genesis is a more drastic step than that action requires. [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 15:31, 11 October 2009 (EDT)

== Genesis 1:2 ==

If "the waters under the heaven [were] gathered together unto one place, and ... the dry land appear[ed]" on the third day (Gen. 1:9), can it really be said that there were "oceans" on the first day? [[User:AngusF|AngusF]] 18:10, 14 October 2009 (EDT)

== Genesis 1:3 ==

''God enjoyed the light…''??? Now we're guessing God's emotions like he's enjoying pizza?

Without the Aramaic, Greek, and Latin 'liberal' originals, CP 'translators' are left with guessing what the King James translators read, wrote, and meant.

--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 13:51, 16 October 2009 (EDT)

== 24 hours rather than days? ==

Is this desirable? In my opinion no, as it takes away from the beauty of the book - '24 hours' rather than 'day' seems to be more suited to a textbook, rather than a beautiful book like the Bible. I will remove it, but feel free to put it back in if you disagree. [[User:DerickC|DerickC]] 13:07, 15 October 2009 (EDT)

==baramin==
Would it be better to use the modern conservative word [[Baraminology | baramin]] rather then kind?--[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 15:10, 15 October 2009 (EDT)

Genesis 1-8 (Translated)

2009-10-16T17:44:53Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Chapter 1 */ typos, grammatical errors, punction errors!

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
|In the beginning, God created heaven and earth.
|The first word is God
|-
|2
|And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
|The earth was formless,empty and dark.The Spirit of God was on the oceans.
|
|-
|3
|And God said, let there be light: and there was light.
|God commanded, and there was light.
|
|-
|4
|And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
|God enjoyed the light, because it was good and he separated it from the darkness.
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|-
|5
|And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
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|-
|6
|And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
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|-
|7
|And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
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|8
|And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
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|-
|9
|And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
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|10
|And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
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|-
|11
|And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
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|12
|And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
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|-
|13
|And the evening and the morning were the third day.
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|-
|14
|And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
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|-
|15
|And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
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|-
|16
|And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
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|17
|And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
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|-
|18
|And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
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|-
|19
|And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
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|-
|20
|And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
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|-
|21
|And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
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|-
|22
|And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
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|-
|23
|And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
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|-
|24
|And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
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|-
|25
|And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
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|-
|26
|And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
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|-
|27
|So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
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|-
|28
|And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
|
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|-
|29
|And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
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|-
|30
|And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
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|-
|31
|And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
|
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|-
|2
|And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
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|-
|3
|And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
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|-
|4
|These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
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|-
|5
|And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
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|-
|6
|But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
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|-
|7
|And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
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|8
|And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
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|-
|9
|And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
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|-
|10
|And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
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|11
|The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
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|12
|And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
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|13
|And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
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|14
|And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
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|15
|And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
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|16
|And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
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|17
|But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
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|-
|18
|And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
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|19
|And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
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|20
|And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
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|-
|21
|And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
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|22
|And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
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|-
|23
|And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
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|24
|Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
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|25
|And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
|
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|}
==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
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|-
|2
|And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
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|3
|But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
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|4
|And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
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|5
|For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
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|6
|And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
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|7
|And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
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|8
|And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
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|9
|And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
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|10
|And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
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|11
|And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
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|12
|And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
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|13
|And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
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|14
|And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
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|15
|And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
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|16
|Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
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|17
|And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
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|18
|Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
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|19
|In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
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|20
|And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
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|21
|Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
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|22
|And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
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|23
|Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
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|24
|So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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|}
==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
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|-
|2
|And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
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|3
|And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
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|4
|And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
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|5
|But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
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|6
|And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
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|7
|If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
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|8
|And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
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|9
|And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
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|10
|And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
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|11
|And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
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|12
|When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
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|13
|And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
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|14
|Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
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|15
|And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
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|16
|And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
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|17
|And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
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|18
|And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
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|19
|And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
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|20
|And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.
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|21
|And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
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|22
|And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-cain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.
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|23
|And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
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|24
|If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.
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|25
|And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
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|26
|And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.
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|}
==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
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|2
|Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
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|3
|And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
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|4
|And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
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|5
|And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
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|6
|And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
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|7
|And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
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|8
|And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
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|9
|And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
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|10
|And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
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|11
|And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
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|12
|And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:
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|13
|And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
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|14
|And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
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|15
|And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
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|16
|And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
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|17
|And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
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|18
|And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
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|19
|And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
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|20
|And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
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|21
|And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
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|22
|And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
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|23
|And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
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|24
|And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
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|25
|And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
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|26
|And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
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|27
|And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
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|28
|And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
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|29
|And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
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|30
|And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
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|31
|And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
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|32
|And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
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|}
==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
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|2
|That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
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|3
|And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
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|4
|There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
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|5
|And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
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|6
|And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
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|7
|And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
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|8
|But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
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|9
|These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
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|10
|And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
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|11
|The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
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|12
|And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
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|13
|And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
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|14
|Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
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|15
|And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
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|16
|A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
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|17
|And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
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|18
|But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
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|19
|And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.
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|20
|Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.
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|21
|And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.
|
|
|-
|22
|Thus did Noah; according to all that God commanded him, so did he.
|
|
|}
==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
|
|
|-
|2
|Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
|
|
|-
|3
|Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
|
|
|-
|4
|For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
|
|
|-
|5
|And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
|
|
|-
|6
|And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
|
|
|-
|7
|And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
|
|
|-
|8
|Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
|
|
|-
|9
|There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
|
|
|-
|10
|And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
|
|
|-
|11
|In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
|
|
|-
|13
|In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
|
|
|-
|14
|They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
|
|
|-
|15
|And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
|
|
|-
|16
|And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
|
|
|-
|17
|And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
|
|
|-
|19
|And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
|
|
|-
|20
|Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
|
|
|-
|21
|And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
|
|
|-
|22
|All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
|
|
|-
|23
|And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
|
|
|-
|24
|And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
|
|
|}
==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters asswaged;
|
|
|-
|2
|The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
|
|
|-
|3
|And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
|
|
|-
|4
|And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
|
|
|-
|5
|And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
|
|
|-
|6
|And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
|
|
|-
|7
|And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
|
|
|-
|8
|Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
|
|
|-
|9
|But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
|
|
|-
|10
|And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
|
|
|-
|11
|And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
|
|
|-
|12
|And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
|
|
|-
|13
|And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
|
|
|-
|14
|And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
|
|
|-
|15
|And God spake unto Noah, saying,
|
|
|-
|16
|Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee.
|
|
|-
|17
|Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.
|
|
|-
|18
|And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him:
|
|
|-
|19
|Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark.
|
|
|-
|20
|And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
|
|
|-
|21
|And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
|
|
|-
|22
|While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.
|
|
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Hawaii

2009-09-14T19:49:44Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Trivia */ grammar

[[Image:NOAA_Hawaii_7.gif‎ |right|thumb|350px|Hawaiian Island Chain - from Southeast to Northwest.‎]]
'''Hawaii''' (Hawaiian: Hawai'i) was an independent country that joined the [[United States of America]] voluntarily in 1898 and became a state on August 21st, 1959--it was the fiftieth (and last) state to enter into the union. In 2005 it had a population of 1,275,194 on 6,423 square miles of land. <ref>http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108204.html</ref> It is located in the Pacific Ocean west and south of the mainland of the United States. The main Hawaiian islands are (east to west) Hawai'i (or 'the Big Island'), [[Maui]], Kaho'olawe, [[Molokai|Moloka'i]], [[Lanai|Lana'i]], [[Oahu|O'ahu]], [[Kauai|Kaua'i]] and Ni'ihau. The state capital, [[Honolulu]], and [[Pearl Harbor]] are both on the island of Oahu. The origin of the name ''Hawai'i'' is obscure. It could be derived from the Polynesian ''Owhyii'', 'Place of the Gods', or from ''Hawaiki'' (the former name of Raiatea in the [[Society Islands]]), or may have the meaning 'Homeland'.<ref>Concise Dictionary of World Place-Names (Oxford 2005) p210</ref>

{{clear}}
{{USState
|name=Hawaii
|flag=Hawaii_State_Flag.gif
|motto="Ua mau ke ea o ka aina I ka pono" (The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness)
|nick=The Aloha State
|capital=Honolulu
|language=English
|governor=Linda Lingle
|gparty=Republican
|senator2=Daniel Akaka
|s2party=Democrat
|s2phone=(202) 224-6361
|s2email=http://akaka.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home Contact
|senator1=Daniel Inouye
|s1party=Democrat
|s1phone=(202) 224-3934
|s1email=http://inouye.senate.gov/abtform.html Contact
|population=1,211,537
|date=August 21, 1959 (50th)
}}
==Ancient History==
The original settlers of the Hawaiian island chain were Polynesian explorers who voyaged in ocean-worthy canoes from the southern Pacific (primarily the Marquesas), arriving in the islands circa 300-600 AD. In addition to their Polynesian culture and traditions, these earliest settlers brought with them an array of plants and animals. A second wave of migrations between the Hawaiian and Society Islands took place circa 1000-1300 AD, and this wave brought an infusion of Tahitian religious forms and social structure to the inhabitants of Hawaii. This period ended around 1300 AD, after which the culture of the Hawaiians developed a distinct identity.<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&CategoryID=311</ref>

The population of ancient Hawaii grew sharply between 900 and 1300 AD, then stabilized at a lower rate as the inhabitants lived in balance with the resources of the islands. At the time James Cook arrived in 1778, the population of the islands was estimated to be around 300,000. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

==The 18th Century==

===Unification under a Single King===
In the middle of the 18th century, the Hawaiian islands were governed as a collection of separate kingdoms. As the century came to a close, a dynamic figure named [[Kamehameha]] began a campaign to unify all of the islands under his rule as sole monarch. This was primarily accomplished though brutal conquest, although some of his opponents capitulated peacefully as his army's reputation grew. Kamehameha's conquest of the islands was complete by 1795, and the westerners who arrived from that time and afterward dealt with a single authority for the entire chain. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

===Discovery by the West===
European discovery of the Hawaiian Islands was by Captain [[James Cook]] in 1778. As the location of the islands appeared on navigation charts they were visited by ships of various nations, including the British, Americans, French and Russians, since the location was ideal for providing safe anchorage and the replenishment of provisions in the mid-Pacific. The islands were also strategically located in the migration path of humpback whales, which were among the most sought-after by a thriving whaling industry in the early 1800's. Unfortunately, contact with westerners brought with it western diseases that decimated the indigenous population, which plummeted from approximately 300,000 in 1778 to 56,900 in 1872.<ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

==The 19th Century==

===The End of ''Kapu''===
With the death of Kamehameha and ascension of his son Liholiho to the throne, significant changes began to take place. The most profound was the decision by Liholiho to disregard the sanctity of the ''kapu'' system of rules and customs that had been the backbone of Hawaiian society. In gradual steps, he allowed changes to customs like allowing men and women to eat together at feasts for the first time, and as objections to these changes were dropped or put down they continued until temples to the ancient gods were dismantled and idols burned. The abandonment of ''kapu'' left a void in the social structure of Hawaii just as the first Christian missionaries began to arrive. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

===The Missionary Influence===
Early visitors from Europe introduced Christianity to the native Hawaiians, but these were not part of any organized missionary campaign. A Hawaiian from Kona, Henry Opukaha'ia, is acknowleged to be the first native Christian convert, and in 1808 he traveled to New England. He spent the next 10 years in Connecticut seeking to inspire and organize missionaries to accompany him back to the islands, but he died in New England in 1818. His work inspired others, though, and in 1819 the first missionaries (Presbyterians, Congregationalists and Dutch Reformists) were sent by American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions to the islands. "You are to aim at nothing short of covering those islands with fruitful fields and pleasant dwellings, and schools and churches; of raising up the people to an elevated state of Christian civilization" was the parting instruction from Dr. Samuel Worchester, secretary of the commissioners.<ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

The missionaries were not initially trusted by Liholiho, who instead placed them under probation. A missionary headquarters was established in Honolulu, and one of the first priorities was to develop a consistent written form for the Hawaiian language, which was only spoken up to that time. They also set up the first island printing press, and as other companies of missionaries arrived, they influenced changes in Hawaiian society as well as developments in education, organization of government and entrepreneurism. 0<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&PageID=277&returntoname=Short%20Stories&returntopageid=460</ref>

Unfortunately, not all of these changes were for the long-term benefit of the native Hawaiian culture. One particular example was the disapproval and suppression of the ''hula'' by the missionaries. The ''hula'' is a deep and complex form of recording legends, history and insights about man and nature into patterns of movements that to the uneducated look like elaborate dances. The Hawaiians had no written version of their language prior to the arrival of the missionaries, and the rich collection of hulas passed from generation to generation was their primary form of recorded culture. The Protestant missionaries arriving in 1820 believed that the ''hula'' dangerously promoted old heathen beliefs and celebrated physical enjoyment. With this misunderstanding, they strongly pressured the Hawaiians who had converted to Christianity, including members of the monarchy, to eradicate ''hula''. Their efforts drove the practice underground, and while much of Hawaii's ancient history and heritage was lost as a result, public appreciation and study of the true ''hula'' (as opposed to dances for tourists) was reawakened in the 1970's, studied, and documented for posterity.<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&CategoryID=253</ref>

===Westernization===

The Hawaiian Kingdom flourished throughout the 19th century with several monarchs. It became increasingly westernized. The United States became the major trading partner and protected the Kingdom of Hawaii from takeover by Japan. The vast sugar plantations attracted workers from across the world, especially from Japan, as the native Hawaiians refused to work for pay.

===Revolution of 1893===

The modernization of Hawaiian society was incompatible with absolutre monarchy. The Hawaiian Revolution of 1893 when Hawaiian citizens (many of western descent) overthrew Queen Liliuokalani in response to her attempt to unilaterally impose a new constitution and seize power as an absolute ruler. The revolution was successful with the loss of no life. No Hawaiians tried to fight for their queen. The new Hawaiian government was set up as the Republic of Hawaii and it was recognized by every nation which had recognized the Hawaiian Kingdom.

During the Hawaiian Revolution, a few American troops landed to protect American life and property. They did not engage in fighting and did not occupy any government buildings. However, this action has lead many historical revisionists to falsely claim that the United States invaded Hawaii and deposed the Queen. American President [[Grover Cleveland]] was opposed to the Hawaiian Revolution and he sent [[James Henderson Blount]] to Hawaii to discredit it. Blount was a racist southerner who did not want any more colored people and he wrote a report that reflected his bigotry. He failed to swear in witnesses, refused to speak to many involved in the revolution, and then issued a report blaming the whole matter on an elaborate American plot to invade Hawaii. His Blount Report is cited as evidence of an illegal takeover of Hawaii by Hawaiian separatists to this day.

An investigation of the Hawaiian Revolution was conducted by [[Congress]] in 1894. It was bipartisan, swore in witnesses, and interviewed many that James Blount refused to talk with. Congress issued the Morgan Report which refuted the Blount Report and cleared the United States of any wrong doing during the Hawaiian Revolution.

The Hawaiian Republic agreed to join the United States as a territory in 1898. Congress annexed Hawaii via a Joint Resolution of Congress.

==The 20th Century==
Hawaii was attacked by Japan on December 7, 1941 at [[Pearl Harbor]]. This resulted in the death of over 2000 defenders and brought the United States into [[World War Two]].

The islands became a huge naval base and the staging point for the Pacific War. The islands were under martial law during the ar and controlled by the military.

Hawaiian citizens voted overwhelmingly (93%) for statehood. It was accordingly added as the 50th American state in 1959. The [[United Nations]] recognized this as legal under international law by removing Hawaii from the list of non self-governing territories.

==Politics==
Since statehood, Hawaii has been dominated by the [[Democratic Party]]. [[John Kerry]] carried the state electoral vote in 2004 and the entire Congressional delegation is made up of Democrats. The [[Republican Party]] has made some recent progress with the current governor being a Republican.

There is a tiny separatist movement on the islands which wishes to have Hawaii secede from the USA and form an independent Hawaiian nation. Proponents of this course argue that Hawaii was illegally annexed and should be "restored" to nationhood. The overwhelmingly majority of Hawaiians do not support this view and the separatists remain a small and powerless protest group. None of their leaders is of pure Hawaiian ancestry.

Hawaii offers a limited number of benefits to same sex couples, but has stopped short of offering [[domestic partnerships]].

===Elected officials===
====Federal====
Hawaii
*Sen. [[Daniel Akaka]] [D]
*Sen. [[Daniel Inouye]] [D]
*Rep. [[Neil Abercrombie]] [D, HI-1]
*Rep. [[Mazie Hirono]] [D, HI-2]

==Religion==
Church Membership (as of 1999)<ref>http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/economic/databook/db2000/ The State of Hawaii Data Book 2000</ref>

*[[Roman Catholic]]: 17.7%
*[[Buddhist]]: 8.3%
*[[Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]] (Mormon): 4.6%
*[[United Church of Christ]]: 1.6%
*[[Southern Baptist]]: 1.4%
*[[Assemblies of God]]: 0.9%
*[[Judaism]]: 0.8%
*[[Episcopal]]: 0.8%
*[[United Methodist]]: 0.6%
*[[Lutheran]]: 0.5%

==Tourism==
Hawaii is the United States' only state in the tropics (i.e., south of the [[Tropic of Cancer]]) and a popular tourist attraction known for its beaches, surf, volcanoes, and [[Polynesia]]n history.

==Trivia==

* Hawaii is the only U.S. state that grows [[coffee]] and [[pineapple]]s.

* Measured from the base to its peak, Hawaii's Mauna Kea is the tallest mountain in the world at 33,474 feet, (compared to [[Mount Everest]] which is 29,028 feet above sea level)<ref>[http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/BeataUnke.shtml]</ref>.

*President-elect [[Barack Obama]] was allegedly born in Hawaii.

==See also==
* [[Aloha]]
* [[Kauai]]
* [[Lanai]]
* [[Maui]]
* [[Molokai]]
* [[Oahu]]
* [[Kona Hawaii Temple]]
* [[Laie Hawaii Temple]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

==Sources==

*[http://www.mythichawaii.com An excellent look at how the tiki gods worshiping Hawaiians behaved before conversion to Christianity. Including their savage warriors weapons ''Mythic Hawaii'']
*[http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/15000.html Hawaii Quick Facts from the US Census Bureau]
*[http://www.historyofnations.net/oceania/hawaii.html History of Hawaii]
*[http://www.hawaiihistory.org/ Hawaiihistory.org - Contains an excellent history of Hawaii in timeline format]
*[http://morganreport.org/ Morgan Report]


{{USstates}}
[[Category:States of the United States]]
[[Category:Islands]]
[[Category:Hawaii]]
[[Category:Progressive Era]]

Hawaii

2009-09-14T19:47:43Z

UnicornTapestry: /* =Revolution of 1893 */ sub-heading correction

[[Image:NOAA_Hawaii_7.gif‎ |right|thumb|350px|Hawaiian Island Chain - from Southeast to Northwest.‎]]
'''Hawaii''' (Hawaiian: Hawai'i) was an independent country that joined the [[United States of America]] voluntarily in 1898 and became a state on August 21st, 1959--it was the fiftieth (and last) state to enter into the union. In 2005 it had a population of 1,275,194 on 6,423 square miles of land. <ref>http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108204.html</ref> It is located in the Pacific Ocean west and south of the mainland of the United States. The main Hawaiian islands are (east to west) Hawai'i (or 'the Big Island'), [[Maui]], Kaho'olawe, [[Molokai|Moloka'i]], [[Lanai|Lana'i]], [[Oahu|O'ahu]], [[Kauai|Kaua'i]] and Ni'ihau. The state capital, [[Honolulu]], and [[Pearl Harbor]] are both on the island of Oahu. The origin of the name ''Hawai'i'' is obscure. It could be derived from the Polynesian ''Owhyii'', 'Place of the Gods', or from ''Hawaiki'' (the former name of Raiatea in the [[Society Islands]]), or may have the meaning 'Homeland'.<ref>Concise Dictionary of World Place-Names (Oxford 2005) p210</ref>

{{clear}}
{{USState
|name=Hawaii
|flag=Hawaii_State_Flag.gif
|motto="Ua mau ke ea o ka aina I ka pono" (The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness)
|nick=The Aloha State
|capital=Honolulu
|language=English
|governor=Linda Lingle
|gparty=Republican
|senator2=Daniel Akaka
|s2party=Democrat
|s2phone=(202) 224-6361
|s2email=http://akaka.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home Contact
|senator1=Daniel Inouye
|s1party=Democrat
|s1phone=(202) 224-3934
|s1email=http://inouye.senate.gov/abtform.html Contact
|population=1,211,537
|date=August 21, 1959 (50th)
}}
==Ancient History==
The original settlers of the Hawaiian island chain were Polynesian explorers who voyaged in ocean-worthy canoes from the southern Pacific (primarily the Marquesas), arriving in the islands circa 300-600 AD. In addition to their Polynesian culture and traditions, these earliest settlers brought with them an array of plants and animals. A second wave of migrations between the Hawaiian and Society Islands took place circa 1000-1300 AD, and this wave brought an infusion of Tahitian religious forms and social structure to the inhabitants of Hawaii. This period ended around 1300 AD, after which the culture of the Hawaiians developed a distinct identity.<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&CategoryID=311</ref>

The population of ancient Hawaii grew sharply between 900 and 1300 AD, then stabilized at a lower rate as the inhabitants lived in balance with the resources of the islands. At the time James Cook arrived in 1778, the population of the islands was estimated to be around 300,000. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

==The 18th Century==

===Unification under a Single King===
In the middle of the 18th century, the Hawaiian islands were governed as a collection of separate kingdoms. As the century came to a close, a dynamic figure named [[Kamehameha]] began a campaign to unify all of the islands under his rule as sole monarch. This was primarily accomplished though brutal conquest, although some of his opponents capitulated peacefully as his army's reputation grew. Kamehameha's conquest of the islands was complete by 1795, and the westerners who arrived from that time and afterward dealt with a single authority for the entire chain. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

===Discovery by the West===
European discovery of the Hawaiian Islands was by Captain [[James Cook]] in 1778. As the location of the islands appeared on navigation charts they were visited by ships of various nations, including the British, Americans, French and Russians, since the location was ideal for providing safe anchorage and the replenishment of provisions in the mid-Pacific. The islands were also strategically located in the migration path of humpback whales, which were among the most sought-after by a thriving whaling industry in the early 1800's. Unfortunately, contact with westerners brought with it western diseases that decimated the indigenous population, which plummeted from approximately 300,000 in 1778 to 56,900 in 1872.<ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

==The 19th Century==

===The End of ''Kapu''===
With the death of Kamehameha and ascension of his son Liholiho to the throne, significant changes began to take place. The most profound was the decision by Liholiho to disregard the sanctity of the ''kapu'' system of rules and customs that had been the backbone of Hawaiian society. In gradual steps, he allowed changes to customs like allowing men and women to eat together at feasts for the first time, and as objections to these changes were dropped or put down they continued until temples to the ancient gods were dismantled and idols burned. The abandonment of ''kapu'' left a void in the social structure of Hawaii just as the first Christian missionaries began to arrive. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

===The Missionary Influence===
Early visitors from Europe introduced Christianity to the native Hawaiians, but these were not part of any organized missionary campaign. A Hawaiian from Kona, Henry Opukaha'ia, is acknowleged to be the first native Christian convert, and in 1808 he traveled to New England. He spent the next 10 years in Connecticut seeking to inspire and organize missionaries to accompany him back to the islands, but he died in New England in 1818. His work inspired others, though, and in 1819 the first missionaries (Presbyterians, Congregationalists and Dutch Reformists) were sent by American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions to the islands. "You are to aim at nothing short of covering those islands with fruitful fields and pleasant dwellings, and schools and churches; of raising up the people to an elevated state of Christian civilization" was the parting instruction from Dr. Samuel Worchester, secretary of the commissioners.<ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

The missionaries were not initially trusted by Liholiho, who instead placed them under probation. A missionary headquarters was established in Honolulu, and one of the first priorities was to develop a consistent written form for the Hawaiian language, which was only spoken up to that time. They also set up the first island printing press, and as other companies of missionaries arrived, they influenced changes in Hawaiian society as well as developments in education, organization of government and entrepreneurism. 0<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&PageID=277&returntoname=Short%20Stories&returntopageid=460</ref>

Unfortunately, not all of these changes were for the long-term benefit of the native Hawaiian culture. One particular example was the disapproval and suppression of the ''hula'' by the missionaries. The ''hula'' is a deep and complex form of recording legends, history and insights about man and nature into patterns of movements that to the uneducated look like elaborate dances. The Hawaiians had no written version of their language prior to the arrival of the missionaries, and the rich collection of hulas passed from generation to generation was their primary form of recorded culture. The Protestant missionaries arriving in 1820 believed that the ''hula'' dangerously promoted old heathen beliefs and celebrated physical enjoyment. With this misunderstanding, they strongly pressured the Hawaiians who had converted to Christianity, including members of the monarchy, to eradicate ''hula''. Their efforts drove the practice underground, and while much of Hawaii's ancient history and heritage was lost as a result, public appreciation and study of the true ''hula'' (as opposed to dances for tourists) was reawakened in the 1970's, studied, and documented for posterity.<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&CategoryID=253</ref>

===Westernization===

The Hawaiian Kingdom flourished throughout the 19th century with several monarchs. It became increasingly westernized. The United States became the major trading partner and protected the Kingdom of Hawaii from takeover by Japan. The vast sugar plantations attracted workers from across the world, especially from Japan, as the native Hawaiians refused to work for pay.

===Revolution of 1893===

The modernization of Hawaiian society was incompatible with absolutre monarchy. The Hawaiian Revolution of 1893 when Hawaiian citizens (many of western descent) overthrew Queen Liliuokalani in response to her attempt to unilaterally impose a new constitution and seize power as an absolute ruler. The revolution was successful with the loss of no life. No Hawaiians tried to fight for their queen. The new Hawaiian government was set up as the Republic of Hawaii and it was recognized by every nation which had recognized the Hawaiian Kingdom.

During the Hawaiian Revolution, a few American troops landed to protect American life and property. They did not engage in fighting and did not occupy any government buildings. However, this action has lead many historical revisionists to falsely claim that the United States invaded Hawaii and deposed the Queen. American President [[Grover Cleveland]] was opposed to the Hawaiian Revolution and he sent [[James Henderson Blount]] to Hawaii to discredit it. Blount was a racist southerner who did not want any more colored people and he wrote a report that reflected his bigotry. He failed to swear in witnesses, refused to speak to many involved in the revolution, and then issued a report blaming the whole matter on an elaborate American plot to invade Hawaii. His Blount Report is cited as evidence of an illegal takeover of Hawaii by Hawaiian separatists to this day.

An investigation of the Hawaiian Revolution was conducted by [[Congress]] in 1894. It was bipartisan, swore in witnesses, and interviewed many that James Blount refused to talk with. Congress issued the Morgan Report which refuted the Blount Report and cleared the United States of any wrong doing during the Hawaiian Revolution.

The Hawaiian Republic agreed to join the United States as a territory in 1898. Congress annexed Hawaii via a Joint Resolution of Congress.

==The 20th Century==
Hawaii was attacked by Japan on December 7, 1941 at [[Pearl Harbor]]. This resulted in the death of over 2000 defenders and brought the United States into [[World War Two]].

The islands became a huge naval base and the staging point for the Pacific War. The islands were under martial law during the ar and controlled by the military.

Hawaiian citizens voted overwhelmingly (93%) for statehood. It was accordingly added as the 50th American state in 1959. The [[United Nations]] recognized this as legal under international law by removing Hawaii from the list of non self-governing territories.

==Politics==
Since statehood, Hawaii has been dominated by the [[Democratic Party]]. [[John Kerry]] carried the state electoral vote in 2004 and the entire Congressional delegation is made up of Democrats. The [[Republican Party]] has made some recent progress with the current governor being a Republican.

There is a tiny separatist movement on the islands which wishes to have Hawaii secede from the USA and form an independent Hawaiian nation. Proponents of this course argue that Hawaii was illegally annexed and should be "restored" to nationhood. The overwhelmingly majority of Hawaiians do not support this view and the separatists remain a small and powerless protest group. None of their leaders is of pure Hawaiian ancestry.

Hawaii offers a limited number of benefits to same sex couples, but has stopped short of offering [[domestic partnerships]].

===Elected officials===
====Federal====
Hawaii
*Sen. [[Daniel Akaka]] [D]
*Sen. [[Daniel Inouye]] [D]
*Rep. [[Neil Abercrombie]] [D, HI-1]
*Rep. [[Mazie Hirono]] [D, HI-2]

==Religion==
Church Membership (as of 1999)<ref>http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/economic/databook/db2000/ The State of Hawaii Data Book 2000</ref>

*[[Roman Catholic]]: 17.7%
*[[Buddhist]]: 8.3%
*[[Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]] (Mormon): 4.6%
*[[United Church of Christ]]: 1.6%
*[[Southern Baptist]]: 1.4%
*[[Assemblies of God]]: 0.9%
*[[Judaism]]: 0.8%
*[[Episcopal]]: 0.8%
*[[United Methodist]]: 0.6%
*[[Lutheran]]: 0.5%

==Tourism==
Hawaii is the United States' only state in the tropics (i.e., south of the [[Tropic of Cancer]]) and a popular tourist attraction known for its beaches, surf, volcanoes, and [[Polynesia]]n history.

==Trivia==
*Hawaii is the only U.S. state which grows [[coffee]] or [[pineapple]]s.

*If measured from the base to its peak Hawaii's Mauna Kea is the tallest mountain in the world at 33,474 feet, (compared to [[Mount Everest]] which is 29,028 feet above sea level)<ref>[http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/BeataUnke.shtml]</ref>.

*President-elect [[Barack Obama]] was allegedly born in Hawaii.

==See also==
* [[Aloha]]
* [[Kauai]]
* [[Lanai]]
* [[Maui]]
* [[Molokai]]
* [[Oahu]]
* [[Kona Hawaii Temple]]
* [[Laie Hawaii Temple]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

==Sources==

*[http://www.mythichawaii.com An excellent look at how the tiki gods worshiping Hawaiians behaved before conversion to Christianity. Including their savage warriors weapons ''Mythic Hawaii'']
*[http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/15000.html Hawaii Quick Facts from the US Census Bureau]
*[http://www.historyofnations.net/oceania/hawaii.html History of Hawaii]
*[http://www.hawaiihistory.org/ Hawaiihistory.org - Contains an excellent history of Hawaii in timeline format]
*[http://morganreport.org/ Morgan Report]


{{USstates}}
[[Category:States of the United States]]
[[Category:Islands]]
[[Category:Hawaii]]
[[Category:Progressive Era]]

Hawaii

2009-09-14T19:46:39Z

UnicornTapestry:

[[Image:NOAA_Hawaii_7.gif‎ |right|thumb|350px|Hawaiian Island Chain - from Southeast to Northwest.‎]]
'''Hawaii''' (Hawaiian: Hawai'i) was an independent country that joined the [[United States of America]] voluntarily in 1898 and became a state on August 21st, 1959--it was the fiftieth (and last) state to enter into the union. In 2005 it had a population of 1,275,194 on 6,423 square miles of land. <ref>http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108204.html</ref> It is located in the Pacific Ocean west and south of the mainland of the United States. The main Hawaiian islands are (east to west) Hawai'i (or 'the Big Island'), [[Maui]], Kaho'olawe, [[Molokai|Moloka'i]], [[Lanai|Lana'i]], [[Oahu|O'ahu]], [[Kauai|Kaua'i]] and Ni'ihau. The state capital, [[Honolulu]], and [[Pearl Harbor]] are both on the island of Oahu. The origin of the name ''Hawai'i'' is obscure. It could be derived from the Polynesian ''Owhyii'', 'Place of the Gods', or from ''Hawaiki'' (the former name of Raiatea in the [[Society Islands]]), or may have the meaning 'Homeland'.<ref>Concise Dictionary of World Place-Names (Oxford 2005) p210</ref>

{{clear}}
{{USState
|name=Hawaii
|flag=Hawaii_State_Flag.gif
|motto="Ua mau ke ea o ka aina I ka pono" (The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness)
|nick=The Aloha State
|capital=Honolulu
|language=English
|governor=Linda Lingle
|gparty=Republican
|senator2=Daniel Akaka
|s2party=Democrat
|s2phone=(202) 224-6361
|s2email=http://akaka.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Contact.Home Contact
|senator1=Daniel Inouye
|s1party=Democrat
|s1phone=(202) 224-3934
|s1email=http://inouye.senate.gov/abtform.html Contact
|population=1,211,537
|date=August 21, 1959 (50th)
}}
==Ancient History==
The original settlers of the Hawaiian island chain were Polynesian explorers who voyaged in ocean-worthy canoes from the southern Pacific (primarily the Marquesas), arriving in the islands circa 300-600 AD. In addition to their Polynesian culture and traditions, these earliest settlers brought with them an array of plants and animals. A second wave of migrations between the Hawaiian and Society Islands took place circa 1000-1300 AD, and this wave brought an infusion of Tahitian religious forms and social structure to the inhabitants of Hawaii. This period ended around 1300 AD, after which the culture of the Hawaiians developed a distinct identity.<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&CategoryID=311</ref>

The population of ancient Hawaii grew sharply between 900 and 1300 AD, then stabilized at a lower rate as the inhabitants lived in balance with the resources of the islands. At the time James Cook arrived in 1778, the population of the islands was estimated to be around 300,000. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

==The 18th Century==

===Unification under a Single King===
In the middle of the 18th century, the Hawaiian islands were governed as a collection of separate kingdoms. As the century came to a close, a dynamic figure named [[Kamehameha]] began a campaign to unify all of the islands under his rule as sole monarch. This was primarily accomplished though brutal conquest, although some of his opponents capitulated peacefully as his army's reputation grew. Kamehameha's conquest of the islands was complete by 1795, and the westerners who arrived from that time and afterward dealt with a single authority for the entire chain. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

===Discovery by the West===
European discovery of the Hawaiian Islands was by Captain [[James Cook]] in 1778. As the location of the islands appeared on navigation charts they were visited by ships of various nations, including the British, Americans, French and Russians, since the location was ideal for providing safe anchorage and the replenishment of provisions in the mid-Pacific. The islands were also strategically located in the migration path of humpback whales, which were among the most sought-after by a thriving whaling industry in the early 1800's. Unfortunately, contact with westerners brought with it western diseases that decimated the indigenous population, which plummeted from approximately 300,000 in 1778 to 56,900 in 1872.<ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

==The 19th Century==

===The End of ''Kapu''===
With the death of Kamehameha and ascension of his son Liholiho to the throne, significant changes began to take place. The most profound was the decision by Liholiho to disregard the sanctity of the ''kapu'' system of rules and customs that had been the backbone of Hawaiian society. In gradual steps, he allowed changes to customs like allowing men and women to eat together at feasts for the first time, and as objections to these changes were dropped or put down they continued until temples to the ancient gods were dismantled and idols burned. The abandonment of ''kapu'' left a void in the social structure of Hawaii just as the first Christian missionaries began to arrive. <ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

===The Missionary Influence===
Early visitors from Europe introduced Christianity to the native Hawaiians, but these were not part of any organized missionary campaign. A Hawaiian from Kona, Henry Opukaha'ia, is acknowleged to be the first native Christian convert, and in 1808 he traveled to New England. He spent the next 10 years in Connecticut seeking to inspire and organize missionaries to accompany him back to the islands, but he died in New England in 1818. His work inspired others, though, and in 1819 the first missionaries (Presbyterians, Congregationalists and Dutch Reformists) were sent by American Board of Commissioners for Foreign Missions to the islands. "You are to aim at nothing short of covering those islands with fruitful fields and pleasant dwellings, and schools and churches; of raising up the people to an elevated state of Christian civilization" was the parting instruction from Dr. Samuel Worchester, secretary of the commissioners.<ref>http://archives.starbulletin.com/1999/06/16/millennium/index.html</ref>

The missionaries were not initially trusted by Liholiho, who instead placed them under probation. A missionary headquarters was established in Honolulu, and one of the first priorities was to develop a consistent written form for the Hawaiian language, which was only spoken up to that time. They also set up the first island printing press, and as other companies of missionaries arrived, they influenced changes in Hawaiian society as well as developments in education, organization of government and entrepreneurism. 0<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&PageID=277&returntoname=Short%20Stories&returntopageid=460</ref>

Unfortunately, not all of these changes were for the long-term benefit of the native Hawaiian culture. One particular example was the disapproval and suppression of the ''hula'' by the missionaries. The ''hula'' is a deep and complex form of recording legends, history and insights about man and nature into patterns of movements that to the uneducated look like elaborate dances. The Hawaiians had no written version of their language prior to the arrival of the missionaries, and the rich collection of hulas passed from generation to generation was their primary form of recorded culture. The Protestant missionaries arriving in 1820 believed that the ''hula'' dangerously promoted old heathen beliefs and celebrated physical enjoyment. With this misunderstanding, they strongly pressured the Hawaiians who had converted to Christianity, including members of the monarchy, to eradicate ''hula''. Their efforts drove the practice underground, and while much of Hawaii's ancient history and heritage was lost as a result, public appreciation and study of the true ''hula'' (as opposed to dances for tourists) was reawakened in the 1970's, studied, and documented for posterity.<ref>http://www.hawaiihistory.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=ig.page&CategoryID=253</ref>

===Westernization===

The Hawaiian Kingdom flourished throughout the 19th century with several monarchs. It became increasingly westernized. The United States became the major trading partner and protected the Kingdom of Hawaii from takeover by Japan. The vast sugar plantations attracted workers from across the world, especially from Japan, as the native Hawaiians refused to work for pay.

===Revolution of 1893==
The modernization of Hawaiian society was incompatible with absolutre monarchy. The Hawaiian Revolution of 1893 when Hawaiian citizens (many of western descent) overthrew Queen Liliuokalani in response to her attempt to unilaterally impose a new constitution and seize power as an absolute ruler. The revolution was successful with the loss of no life. No Hawaiians tried to fight for their queen. The new Hawaiian government was set up as the Republic of Hawaii and it was recognized by every nation which had recognized the Hawaiian Kingdom.

During the Hawaiian Revolution, a few American troops landed to protect American life and property. They did not engage in fighting and did not occupy any government buildings. However, this action has lead many historical revisionists to falsely claim that the United States invaded Hawaii and deposed the Queen. American President [[Grover Cleveland]] was opposed to the Hawaiian Revolution and he sent [[James Henderson Blount]] to Hawaii to discredit it. Blount was a racist southerner who did not want any more colored people and he wrote a report that reflected his bigotry. He failed to swear in witnesses, refused to speak to many involved in the revolution, and then issued a report blaming the whole matter on an elaborate American plot to invade Hawaii. His Blount Report is cited as evidence of an illegal takeover of Hawaii by Hawaiian separatists to this day.

An investigation of the Hawaiian Revolution was conducted by [[Congress]] in 1894. It was bipartisan, swore in witnesses, and interviewed many that James Blount refused to talk with. Congress issued the Morgan Report which refuted the Blount Report and cleared the United States of any wrong doing during the Hawaiian Revolution.

The Hawaiian Republic agreed to join the United States as a territory in 1898. Congress annexed Hawaii via a Joint Resolution of Congress.

==The 20th Century==
Hawaii was attacked by Japan on December 7, 1941 at [[Pearl Harbor]]. This resulted in the death of over 2000 defenders and brought the United States into [[World War Two]].

The islands became a huge naval base and the staging point for the Pacific War. The islands were under martial law during the ar and controlled by the military.

Hawaiian citizens voted overwhelmingly (93%) for statehood. It was accordingly added as the 50th American state in 1959. The [[United Nations]] recognized this as legal under international law by removing Hawaii from the list of non self-governing territories.

==Politics==
Since statehood, Hawaii has been dominated by the [[Democratic Party]]. [[John Kerry]] carried the state electoral vote in 2004 and the entire Congressional delegation is made up of Democrats. The [[Republican Party]] has made some recent progress with the current governor being a Republican.

There is a tiny separatist movement on the islands which wishes to have Hawaii secede from the USA and form an independent Hawaiian nation. Proponents of this course argue that Hawaii was illegally annexed and should be "restored" to nationhood. The overwhelmingly majority of Hawaiians do not support this view and the separatists remain a small and powerless protest group. None of their leaders is of pure Hawaiian ancestry.

Hawaii offers a limited number of benefits to same sex couples, but has stopped short of offering [[domestic partnerships]].

===Elected officials===
====Federal====
Hawaii
*Sen. [[Daniel Akaka]] [D]
*Sen. [[Daniel Inouye]] [D]
*Rep. [[Neil Abercrombie]] [D, HI-1]
*Rep. [[Mazie Hirono]] [D, HI-2]

==Religion==
Church Membership (as of 1999)<ref>http://www.hawaii.gov/dbedt/info/economic/databook/db2000/ The State of Hawaii Data Book 2000</ref>

*[[Roman Catholic]]: 17.7%
*[[Buddhist]]: 8.3%
*[[Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]] (Mormon): 4.6%
*[[United Church of Christ]]: 1.6%
*[[Southern Baptist]]: 1.4%
*[[Assemblies of God]]: 0.9%
*[[Judaism]]: 0.8%
*[[Episcopal]]: 0.8%
*[[United Methodist]]: 0.6%
*[[Lutheran]]: 0.5%

==Tourism==
Hawaii is the United States' only state in the tropics (i.e., south of the [[Tropic of Cancer]]) and a popular tourist attraction known for its beaches, surf, volcanoes, and [[Polynesia]]n history.

==Trivia==
*Hawaii is the only U.S. state which grows [[coffee]] or [[pineapple]]s.

*If measured from the base to its peak Hawaii's Mauna Kea is the tallest mountain in the world at 33,474 feet, (compared to [[Mount Everest]] which is 29,028 feet above sea level)<ref>[http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/BeataUnke.shtml]</ref>.

*President-elect [[Barack Obama]] was allegedly born in Hawaii.

==See also==
* [[Aloha]]
* [[Kauai]]
* [[Lanai]]
* [[Maui]]
* [[Molokai]]
* [[Oahu]]
* [[Kona Hawaii Temple]]
* [[Laie Hawaii Temple]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

==Sources==

*[http://www.mythichawaii.com An excellent look at how the tiki gods worshiping Hawaiians behaved before conversion to Christianity. Including their savage warriors weapons ''Mythic Hawaii'']
*[http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/15000.html Hawaii Quick Facts from the US Census Bureau]
*[http://www.historyofnations.net/oceania/hawaii.html History of Hawaii]
*[http://www.hawaiihistory.org/ Hawaiihistory.org - Contains an excellent history of Hawaii in timeline format]
*[http://morganreport.org/ Morgan Report]


{{USstates}}
[[Category:States of the United States]]
[[Category:Islands]]
[[Category:Hawaii]]
[[Category:Progressive Era]]

User talk:UnicornTapestry

2008-08-31T05:38:40Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Notice of name needed */

== Notice of name needed ==

Your user name is silly. We need a real first name and last initial for your edits. Don't create a new account, but provide your real first name and last initial for switching your account.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:20, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

You haven't responded, despite my temporary block and notice here. You seem to have an ax to grind against the Scientologists, and inserted dated allegations. Don't edit here for such a non-educational purpose. Thanks and Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:20, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:You are correct about Scientologists, although I wouldn't have couched it that way. The damage done is a personal issue with me, and I considered the updates historical rather than dated. I'd appreciate if you clarified about non-educational purpose. I'm been researching their Operation Snow WHite, but if you'd rather not have it, I don't need to pursue it.

:I don't like airing things in public. Feel free to contact me via eMail.

:kind regards, --[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 01:38, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

User talk:MHayes

2008-08-30T21:03:37Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Linguistics */ new section

Welcome, and thanks for your edits. We need to close night editing a bit early tonight, but we hope to see you back early tomorrow morning. Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:28, 20 August 2008 (EDT)

Re Stravinsky talk.....Thanks for the kind words, Michelle. I do know that many of these two or three liners were written by homeschoolers. (Though not all...I have amended a number by he, himself.) It is more their longevity that turns me into a Grumpy Old Man. And I get even grumpier when intermediate edits has been by senior sysops who should know better. I seem to have been born with an inbuilt historical error alarm, and a passionate and abiding love for classical music. Cheers, Alan (And || to you, too. That's my online hug sign.)

Oh,and re '''400 AD '''......you'll find 100 and 200AD and BC etc. etc. as well. I think we're supposed to enter events within the various centuries. Give me ten minutes and check that site again. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 18:06, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

== Linguistics ==

Michelle, if you don't mind contacting me via eMail, I have a language question.

Thank you. --[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 17:03, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Sarah Palin

2008-08-30T19:41:01Z

UnicornTapestry: created missing heading

== Sexist ==

Don't consider me sexist but... she at least looks a woman. Not like that Hillary who'd grow moustaches if she could. --[[User:AdamE|AdamE]] 11:24, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

:Maybe not sexist but decidedly un-gallant and not a little silly. Hilary Clinton looks every inch a woman. If she looks less attractive than Sarah Palin that might just have something to do with the age difference: on the same basis I'd be much more worried if Obama was after my wife than if McCain were! C'mon, if attractivness was relevant you'd be lining up to vote Obama in. --[[User:Toffeeman|Toffeeman]] 11:30, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

::Un-gallant and cynical. --[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 15:41, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

== Her other son, Trig. ==

Should such a private and personal happening as that of her second son be brought to the general public? On one hand, it is only her and her family's matter, but on the other hand it shows that her acts are as honorable as her words. At least I was dubious on her at first, but reading more and more on her I am convinced that she is the Vice President America and the world need. I'm sure even liberals aknowledge her courage and that she did the right thing with Trig. But I leave it to those more knowledgeable to include such familiar matters or not in the article. [[User:SilvioB|SilvioB]] 15:17, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
: For what it's worth I think it should be mentioned, not because it's an invasion of her family's privacy, but because it says something important and positive about her character. She had stated publicly that she and her husband knew of the condition during the pregnancy, and chose not to abort it because of their values. That's a defining statement about her living the values she talks about, and one of the reasons I respect her as a person. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 15:34, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Please feel free to include that information. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 15:47, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:Done --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 16:22, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

::Much of that information is in public release and has been reported in interviews in People and Vogue. I added a couple of comments she made, plus information about her son in the military.

::--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 21:50, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:::The one of the rare times I will make a display of my personal opinions on here. I find this woman to be hypocritical and in fact somewhat repulsive as a mother. I am all for women's rights, adn all for women having a career, but she has a SIX MONTH OLD SON, and is about to go on a campaign trail. The only possible way she can manage a campaign trail is if someone else raises her son. And a special needs son as well. I am heart sick that this woman would put her career before her child. Men are expected to do this, but women are the core of our children's lives. We are central to who they become. Especially for the first 5 years of their life. Work before you have a kid, expand your career after your child is back in school. But the 5 most important years of a child's development are before he or she starts socializing, and this woman is willing to be an American vice president which will keep her on the road over 200 days a year, if you go by averages of other VPs, and often in countries where it's not only "discouraged" to take a child, but out right dangerous. Vietnam and Korea - if you are there to represent the US. Venezuela. Cuba. Georgia. China. not places to be taking a child. I am disheartened, as I said. This is not a good role model for how to be a women in teh US finding a career - when the career comes before your own family. AGain, rarely will you see me make a statement like this, cause I'm not normally into challenges. but this woman makes me so sad for her child, and as a mother, as a woman who believes that a Christian woman (and any woman, frankly) should put her infants first... it is just sad. Would it have killed her to wait 5 years before being in such demanding political positions?--[[User:MHayes|MHayes]] Michelle13:58, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

::::Wow, that's heartfelt and does give one pause. I have to confess I didn't put the numbers (dates) together. Thanks for making me think a little more about this.
::::--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 15:37, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

== Oh, boy... ==

Cue the whitewashing. I'm gonna guess the polar bear section will be deleted or completely rewritten within 24 hours. As it stands, it certainly seems like a good example of "[[liberal bias]]". [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:26, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:I suggest to close this article from editing for a few days or at least hours. It's clear that it will become a favorite target for vandals. I'm sure if changes have to be made, Administrators will be able to make them well. I'm not suggesting a long term block, mind you, just to let things calm down. [[User:SilvioB|SilvioB]] 15:29, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
::I think Silvio has nmade a good point. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 15:30, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

:::The polar bear status is unclear. International numbers have been increasing, but largely due to numbers now being reported in Siberia and other former states of the Soviet Union. I don't know if different species are involved or that the aggregate is germane. It will be interesting to find out.

:::kind regards, --[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 21:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Affirmative Action Vice-President ==
What is the Affirmative Action Vice-President part about? That is ridiculous. She would be the first woman VP but that has nothing to do with affirmative action. [[User:Fsamuels|Fsamuels]] 16:48, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:It's criticising (in an oblique way) the accusations that Obama would be the first "Affirmitive Action President". I suspect that whoever called Palin that is hoping that you will find it ridiculous and decide that the Obama accusation is similarly ridiculous. --[[User:Toffeeman|Toffeeman]] 16:59, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

==Second Picture==
I think we should take it down. It's just like the first one and is totally unnecessary. If there is a second picture then it should be her with [[John McCain]]. I'm going to take it down. Maybe an administrator could replace it with this. [[User:Chippeterson|Chippeterson]] 29 August 2008 http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2008-08/palin.jpg

: Sorry, link says '''access denied'''. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 09:41, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

O.K., how about this one. http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/08/29/PH2008082902687.jpg [[User:Chippeterson|Chippeterson]] 30 August 2008

:That's better! --[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 11:15, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:That's a good one.--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 14:47, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

It seems to be popular. Anyway an administrator could come in and upload it? [[User:Chippeterson|Chippeterson]] 30 August 2008

Talk:Sarah Palin

2008-08-30T19:37:18Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Her other son, Trig. */

Don't consider me sexist but... she at least looks a woman. Not like that Hillary who'd grow moustaches if she could. --[[User:AdamE|AdamE]] 11:24, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Maybe not sexist but decidedly un-gallant and not a little silly. Hilary Clinton looks every inch a woman. If she looks less attractive than Sarah Palin that might just have something to do with the age difference: on the same basis I'd be much more worried if Obama was after my wife than if McCain were! C'mon, if attractivness was relevant you'd be lining up to vote Obama in. --[[User:Toffeeman|Toffeeman]] 11:30, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Her other son, Trig. ==

Should such a private and personal happening as that of her second son be brought to the general public? On one hand, it is only her and her family's matter, but on the other hand it shows that her acts are as honorable as her words. At least I was dubious on her at first, but reading more and more on her I am convinced that she is the Vice President America and the world need. I'm sure even liberals aknowledge her courage and that she did the right thing with Trig. But I leave it to those more knowledgeable to include such familiar matters or not in the article. [[User:SilvioB|SilvioB]] 15:17, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
: For what it's worth I think it should be mentioned, not because it's an invasion of her family's privacy, but because it says something important and positive about her character. She had stated publicly that she and her husband knew of the condition during the pregnancy, and chose not to abort it because of their values. That's a defining statement about her living the values she talks about, and one of the reasons I respect her as a person. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 15:34, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

Please feel free to include that information. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 15:47, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:Done --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 16:22, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

::Much of that information is in public release and has been reported in interviews in People and Vogue. I added a couple of comments she made, plus information about her son in the military.

::--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 21:50, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:::The one of the rare times I will make a display of my personal opinions on here. I find this woman to be hypocritical and in fact somewhat repulsive as a mother. I am all for women's rights, adn all for women having a career, but she has a SIX MONTH OLD SON, and is about to go on a campaign trail. The only possible way she can manage a campaign trail is if someone else raises her son. And a special needs son as well. I am heart sick that this woman would put her career before her child. Men are expected to do this, but women are the core of our children's lives. We are central to who they become. Especially for the first 5 years of their life. Work before you have a kid, expand your career after your child is back in school. But the 5 most important years of a child's development are before he or she starts socializing, and this woman is willing to be an American vice president which will keep her on the road over 200 days a year, if you go by averages of other VPs, and often in countries where it's not only "discouraged" to take a child, but out right dangerous. Vietnam and Korea - if you are there to represent the US. Venezuela. Cuba. Georgia. China. not places to be taking a child. I am disheartened, as I said. This is not a good role model for how to be a women in teh US finding a career - when the career comes before your own family. AGain, rarely will you see me make a statement like this, cause I'm not normally into challenges. but this woman makes me so sad for her child, and as a mother, as a woman who believes that a Christian woman (and any woman, frankly) should put her infants first... it is just sad. Would it have killed her to wait 5 years before being in such demanding political positions?--[[User:MHayes|MHayes]] Michelle13:58, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

::::Wow, that's heartfelt and does give one pause. I have to confess I didn't put the numbers (dates) together. Thanks for making me think a little more about this.
::::--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 15:37, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

== Oh, boy... ==

Cue the whitewashing. I'm gonna guess the polar bear section will be deleted or completely rewritten within 24 hours. As it stands, it certainly seems like a good example of "[[liberal bias]]". [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:26, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:I suggest to close this article from editing for a few days or at least hours. It's clear that it will become a favorite target for vandals. I'm sure if changes have to be made, Administrators will be able to make them well. I'm not suggesting a long term block, mind you, just to let things calm down. [[User:SilvioB|SilvioB]] 15:29, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
::I think Silvio has nmade a good point. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 15:30, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

:::The polar bear status is unclear. International numbers have been increasing, but largely due to numbers now being reported in Siberia and other former states of the Soviet Union. I don't know if different species are involved or that the aggregate is germane. It will be interesting to find out.

:::kind regards, --[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 21:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Affirmative Action Vice-President ==
What is the Affirmative Action Vice-President part about? That is ridiculous. She would be the first woman VP but that has nothing to do with affirmative action. [[User:Fsamuels|Fsamuels]] 16:48, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:It's criticising (in an oblique way) the accusations that Obama would be the first "Affirmitive Action President". I suspect that whoever called Palin that is hoping that you will find it ridiculous and decide that the Obama accusation is similarly ridiculous. --[[User:Toffeeman|Toffeeman]] 16:59, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

==Second Picture==
I think we should take it down. It's just like the first one and is totally unnecessary. If there is a second picture then it should be her with [[John McCain]]. I'm going to take it down. Maybe an administrator could replace it with this. [[User:Chippeterson|Chippeterson]] 29 August 2008 http://hotair.cachefly.net/images/2008-08/palin.jpg

: Sorry, link says '''access denied'''. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 09:41, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

O.K., how about this one. http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/08/29/PH2008082902687.jpg [[User:Chippeterson|Chippeterson]] 30 August 2008

:That's better! --[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 11:15, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:That's a good one.--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 14:47, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

It seems to be popular. Anyway an administrator could come in and upload it? [[User:Chippeterson|Chippeterson]] 30 August 2008

Talk:Sarah Palin

2008-08-30T15:15:09Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Second Picture */

Sarah Palin

2008-08-30T15:13:01Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Personal Background */ reshuffled Trig info and quotes (no new content or deletions)

[[Image:Sarah Palin.jpg|right|thumb|Sarah Palin]] '''Sarah Louise Palin''' (born February 11, 1964) is the [[conservative]] first-term Republican [[governor]] of [[Alaska]]. She is the youngest person to hold this honor as well as the first woman to do so in the state's history. Palin is Senator [[John McCain]]'s Vice Presidential running mate in the [[2008 Presidential Election]].

Palin's parents arrived in Alaska in 1964 to teach school in Skagway.

She earned her Journalism degree from the University of [[Idaho]] and worked in media and the utility industry before beginning her public service 14 years ago.

==Personal Background==

Palin arrived in Alaska with her family in 1964, when her parents came to teach school in Skagway. She received a bachelor of science degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho in 1987. Palin, who graduated from Wasilla High School in 1982, has lived in Skagway, Eagle River and Wasilla. She reports she entered beauty pageants to earn college money.

She is married to [[Todd Palin]], part Yupik [[Eskimo]], who is a lifelong Alaskan, a production operator on the North Slope and a four-time champion of the Iron Dog, the world's longest snowmobile race. Also, she is a Union member and a moose hunter holding [[NRA]] membership.<ref>[http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/29/mccain-to-name-running-mate-on-friday/ McCain Names Alaska Gov. Palin as Running Mate] Fox News, August 29, 2008</ref> They have five children together: Track, Bristol, Willow, Piper, and Trig.

Palin has been highly regarded among conservatives for acting on her [[pro-life]] beliefs in the case of her youngest son, Trig, who was diagnosed with [[Down syndrome]] in the fourth month of her pregnancy. After researching the condition, she and her husband agreed to continue to pregnancy:
: "[My husband Todd said,] we shouldn't be asking 'Why us?' We should be saying 'Well, why not us?' We've both been very vocal about being pro life. We understand that every innocent life has wonderful potential. I'm looking at him right now, and I see perfection. Yeah, he has an extra chromosome. I keep thinking, in our world, what is normal and what is perfect?" [http://www.celebrity-babies.com/2008/05/gov-sarah-palin.html]

Trig was born on April 18, 2008, four months before his mother was announced as the vice-presidential candidate. Palin wrote:
:"This new person in your life can help everyone put things in perspective and bind us together, and get everyone focused on what really matters ... Those who love him will think less about self and focus less on what the world tells [us] is 'normal' or 'perfect.'"<ref name="people">[[People Magazine]]</ref>

:"It's a sign of the times to be able to do this," she said. "I can think of so many male candidates who watched a families grow while they were in office. There is no reason to believe a woman can't do it with a growing family. My baby will not be at all or in any sense neglected."<ref>Alaska governor balances newborn's needs, official duties [http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-05-10-4082128881_x.htm]</ref>

Palin's older son Track, serves in the U.S. Army, and may be deployed to [[Iraq War|Iraq]] this autumn. Palin says, "I'm proud of him but I worry."<ref name="people">[[People Magazine]]</ref>

==Political Career==
Palin was elected to two terms on the Wasilla City Council, and then two terms as the Mayor / Manager of Alaska's fastest growing community (Population: 5400 in 2000)<ref>[http://wasilla.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm Wasilla Population and Demographics]</ref>. Ms. Palin's leadership qualities were recognized when she was elected as President of the Alaska Conference of Mayors despite being a woman. In 2002, she ran for Lieutenant Governor, but came in second in a four-way race. Later that year, when [[Frank Murkowski]] resigned his [[Senate]] seat to become [[governor]], she interviewed for the opening. Instead, Murkowski appointed his daughter to the seat. From there, she went on to run for governor and won, becoming the first female governor of Alaska and its youngest.

In 2003, then-Governor Mukowski appointed Palin to serve as Panel Ethics Commisioner of Alaska's Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, which regulates Alaska's [[non-renewable energy|non-renewable]] resources: [[oil]] and [[gasoline|gas]]. She resigned in 2004 as a protest over the "lack of ethics" of fellow panelists who had ignored her complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.

She ran for Governor in 2006 on a clean government platform, and defeated incumbent Governor Frank Murkowski in the Republican primary, and went on to defeat former Governor Tony Knowles in the general election.

She has also served on the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission. She was named one of Alaska's "Top 40 Under 40", Alaska's Public Works "Person of the Year", and was recently inducted into the Sigma Beta Delta Honor Society at Alaska Pacific University.

Married to the three-time champion of the world's longest [[snowmobile]] race ([[the Iron Dog]]), her husband is also a lifelong Alaskan and is a production operator on the [[North Slope]].

Palin has served on numerous boards and commissions throughout the State, and stays active as a marathon runner, sports team mom, hockey manager and school volunteer. A lifetime member of the [[NRA]], she enjoys hunting, fishing, and Alaska history. <ref>http://gov.state.ak.us/bio.php Alaska Governor Sarah Palin</ref>

In 2007, Palin's 18-year old son, Track, enlisted in the [[Army]]. <ref>http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6920410,00.html</ref>

<blockquote>
''I am pro-life and I believe that marriage should only be between and man and a woman. I am opposed to any expansion of gambling in Alaska.'' <ref> Source: Campaign website, www.palinforgovernor.com, "Issues" Nov 7, 2006 </ref>
</blockquote>

==Polar bears==

Fox News reported that:
* The state of Alaska will sue to challenge the recent listing of [[polar bears]] as a threatened species, Gov. Sarah Palin announced Wednesday [May 21, 2008].
* She and other Alaska elected officials fear a listing will cripple oil and gas development in prime polar bear habitat off the state's northern and northwestern coasts.
* Palin argued that there is not enough evidence to support a listing. Polar bears are well-managed and their population has dramatically increased over 30 years as a result of conservation, she said.
* Climate models that predict continued loss of sea ice, the main habitat of polar bears, during summers are unreliable, said Palin. <ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,357065,00.html?sPage=fnc/scitech/naturalscience</ref>

==State Legislature Investigation==
In August of 2008, the [[Alaska]] state legislature began an investigation of Palin and her staff for potential abuse of power in regards to a firing of Commissioner of Public Safety Walter Monegan. Monegan was dismissed from his position in July of 2008. He alleged that Palin fired him because he refused to fire Alaska State Trooper Mike Wooten, who had been involved in a divorce and child custody battle with Palin's sister. Palin denies the charges.

==Vice Presidential Candidate==
On August 29, 2008, Palin was announced to be the Vice Presidential nominee for Republican Senator John McCain <ref>http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/sarah_palin_vp/2008/08/29/126138.html</ref>. The selection was a surprise, as those in the media were expecting [[Minnesota]] Governor [[Tim Pawlenty]] or former [[Massachusetts]]'s Governor [[Mitt Romney]]. Palin adds youth and executive experience to the ticket. She is the second female Vice Presidential candidate of a major party in U.S. history and the first one on a Republican ticket. The first was [[Geraldine Ferraro]], who the Democratic Party put on the ticket under [[Walter Mondale]] in 1984.

==References==
<references/>

==External Links==
[[Image:Sarah Palin 2.jpg|right]]
*[http://www.gov.state.ak.us/ State of Alaska - Governor Sarah Palin Official Website]
*[http://www.nga.org/portal/site/nga/menuitem.29fab9fb4add37305ddcbeeb501010a0/?vgnextoid=864bb9006da3f010VgnVCM1000001a01010aRCRD National Governor's Association - Alaska Governor Sarah Palin]
*[http://votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=27200 Project Vote Smart - Governor Sarah H. Palin]
*[http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm Sarah Palin On the issues]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Palin, Sarah}}

[[Category:Alaska Governors]]
[[Category:Republican Governors]]

Talk:Sarah Palin

2008-08-30T01:56:21Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Oh, boy... */ polar bears

Talk:Sarah Palin

2008-08-30T01:50:37Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Her other son, Trig. */ Track

Sarah Palin

2008-08-30T01:44:20Z

UnicornTapestry: /* Personal Background */ husband, sons, fashion, beauty pageants, quotes

[[Image:Sarah Palin.jpg|right|thumb|Sarah Palin]] '''Sarah Louise Palin''' (born February 11, 1964) is the [[conservative]] first-term Republican [[governor]] of [[Alaska]]. She is the youngest person to hold this honor as well as the first woman to do so in the state's history. Palin is Senator [[John McCain]]'s Vice Presidential running mate in the [[2008 Presidential Election]].

Palin's parents arrived in Alaska in 1964 to teach school in Skagway.

She earned her Journalism degree from the University of [[Idaho]] and worked in media and the utility industry before beginning her public service 14 years ago.

==Personal Background==

Palin arrived in Alaska with her family in 1964, when her parents came to teach school in Skagway. She received a bachelor of science degree in communications-journalism from the University of Idaho in 1987. Palin, who graduated from Wasilla High School in 1982, has lived in Skagway, Eagle River and Wasilla. She reports she entered beauty pageants to earn college money. She now says they were sexist, "They made us line up in bathing suits and turn our backs so the male judges could look at our butts. I couldn't believe it."<ref>[[Vogue Magazine]]</ref> She's still interested in fashion and wears black [[Franco Sarto]] boots and [[Kazuo Kawasaki]] designer glasses.

She is married to [[Todd Palin]], part [[Yupik]] Eskimo, who is a lifelong Alaskan, a production operator on the North Slope and a four-time champion of the Iron Dog, the world's longest snowmobile race. They have five children: Track, Bristol, Willow, Piper, and Trig.

Palin has been highly regarded among conservatives for acting on her [[pro-life]] beliefs in the case of her youngest son, Trig, who was diagnosed with [[Down Syndrome]] in the fourth month of her pregnancy. After researching the condition, she and her husband agreed to continue to pregnancy:
: "[My husband Todd said,] we shouldn't be asking 'Why us?' We should be saying 'Well, why not us?' We've both been very vocal about being pro life. We understand that every innocent life has wonderful potential. I'm looking at him right now, and I see perfection. Yeah, he has an extra chromosome. I keep thinking, in our world, what is normal and what is perfect?" [http://www.celebrity-babies.com/2008/05/gov-sarah-palin.html]

She further wrote:
:"This new person in your life can help everyone put things in perspective and bind us together, and get everyone focused on what really matters ... Those who love him will think less about self and focus less on what the world tells [us] is 'normal' or 'perfect.'"<ref name="people">[[People Magazine]]</ref>

Palin's son Track, serves in the U.S. Army, and may be deployed to Iraq this autumn. Palin says, "I'm proud of him but I worry."<ref name="people">[[People Magazine]]</ref>

==Political Career==
Palin was elected to two terms on the Wasilla City Council, and then two terms as the Mayor / Manager of Alaska's fastest growing community (Population: 5400 in 2000)<ref>[http://wasilla.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm Wasilla Population and Demographics]</ref>. Ms. Palin's leadership qualities were recognized when she was elected as President of the Alaska Conference of Mayors despite being a woman. In 2002, she ran for Lieutenant Governor, but came in second in a four-way race. Later that year, when [[Frank Murkowski]] resigned his [[Senate]] seat to become [[governor]], she interviewed for the opening. Instead, Murkowski appointed his daughter to the seat. From there, she went on to run for governor and won, becoming the first female governor of Alaska and its youngest.

In 2003, then-Governor Mukowski appointed Palin to serve as Panel Ethics Commisioner of Alaska's Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, which regulates Alaska's [[non-renewable energy|non-renewable]] resources: [[oil]] and [[gasoline|gas]]. She resigned in 2004 as a protest over the "lack of ethics" of fellow panelists who had ignored her complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.

She ran for Governor in 2006 on a clean government platform, and defeated incumbent Governor Frank Murkowski in the Republican primary, and went on to defeat former Governor Tony Knowles in the general election.

She has also served on the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission. She was named one of Alaska's "Top 40 Under 40", Alaska's Public Works "Person of the Year", and was recently inducted into the Sigma Beta Delta Honor Society at Alaska Pacific University.

Married to the three-time champion of the world's longest [[snowmobile]] race ([[the Iron Dog]]), her husband is also a lifelong Alaskan and is a production operator on the [[North Slope]].

Palin has served on numerous boards and commissions throughout the State, and stays active as a marathon runner, sports team mom, hockey manager and school volunteer. A lifetime member of the [[NRA]], she enjoys hunting, fishing, and Alaska history. <ref>http://gov.state.ak.us/bio.php Alaska Governor Sarah Palin</ref> On the issue of [[abortion]], she describes herself as "pro-life."<ref>http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Sarah_Palin_Abortion.htm</ref>

In 2007, Palin's 18-year old son, Track, enlisted in the [[Army]]. <ref>http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6920410,00.html</ref>

==Polar bears==

Fox News reported that:
* The state of Alaska will sue to challenge the recent listing of [[polar bears]] as a threatened species, Gov. Sarah Palin announced Wednesday [May 21, 2008].
* She and other Alaska elected officials fear a listing will cripple oil and gas development in prime polar bear habitat off the state's northern and northwestern coasts.
* Palin argued that there is not enough evidence to support a listing. Polar bears are well-managed and their population has dramatically increased over 30 years as a result of conservation, she said.
* Climate models that predict continued loss of sea ice, the main habitat of polar bears, during summers are unreliable, said Palin. <ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,357065,00.html?sPage=fnc/scitech/naturalscience</ref>

==State Legislature Investigation==
In August of 2008, the [[Alaska]] state legislature began an investigation of Palin and her staff for potential abuse of power in regards to a firing of Commissioner of Public Safety Walter Monegan. Monegan was dismissed from his position in July of 2008. He alleged that Palin fired him because he refused to fire Alaska State Trooper Mike Wooten, who had been involved in a divorce and child custody battle with Palin's sister. Palin denies the charges.

==Vice Presidential Candidate==
On August 29, 2008, Palin was announced to be the Vice Presidential nominee for Republican Senator John McCain <ref>http://www.newsmax.com/headlines/sarah_palin_vp/2008/08/29/126138.html</ref>. The selection was a surprise, as those in the media were expecting [[Minnesota]] Governor [[Tim Pawlenty]] or former [[Massachusetts]]'s Governor [[Mitt Romney]]. Palin adds youth and executive experience to the ticket. She is the second female Vice Presidential candidate of a major party in U.S. history and the first one on a Republican ticket. The first was [[Geraldine Ferraro]], who the Democratic Party put on the ticket under [[Walter Mondale]] in 1984.

==References==
<references/>

==External Links==
*[http://www.gov.state.ak.us/ State of Alaska - Governor Sarah Palin Official Website]
*[http://www.nga.org/portal/site/nga/menuitem.29fab9fb4add37305ddcbeeb501010a0/?vgnextoid=864bb9006da3f010VgnVCM1000001a01010aRCRD National Governor's Association - Alaska Governor Sarah Palin]
*[http://votesmart.org/bio.php?can_id=27200 Project Vote Smart - Governor Sarah H. Palin]
*[http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm Sarah Palin On the issues]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Palin, Sarah}}

[[Category:Alaska Governors]]
[[Category:Republican Governors]]

Talk:Premise Media

2008-07-31T23:44:59Z

UnicornTapestry: /* "Imagine flap" */

A blogger wrote:

*:“I think the point is that the truth seems to be a problem for Harvard — that is, the truth in the hands of the wrong people.”

*No kidding…that animation is all over the internet and on youtube of all places. Harvard didn’t seem the least bit concerned until an ID proponent showed it.

*Truth is, that when people really contemplate the inner life of a cell, you cannot miss the design….*that’s what worries them*. [http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal/expelled-plagiarizing-harvard/]

{{unsigned|Ed Poor}}

==Could be a calculated act==

After soaking this all in for a day, I think it is obvious that this is part of Expelled’s “baiting” of the Darwinist establishment. Just look at how quickly P-Zed took the bait for the private screening and the conference call. Same with Dawkins. Now XVIVO has taken the bait.

This is all one big marketing strategy by Expelled, and it has worked spectacularly. [http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal/expelled-plagiarizing-harvard/]

{{unsigned|Ed Poor}}

==Response to the film as an illustration of the film's point==

Those trying to stop this film accused its producers of fraudulence in obtaining interviews, hypocrisy, plagiarism, and copyright infringement. They have attacked the issuers of license for music used, “informed” Harvard about the video, threatened legal action, advocated sneaking in, advocated bootlegging the film, written to try to dissuade theatres from showing it, etc. I kept having visions of roadblocks set up to inspect the tire-pressure and tail lights of the trucks transporting the film to theatres. [http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal/expelled-plagiarizing-harvard/] {{unsigned|Ed Poor}}

== Copyright violations to make a point are still copyright violations ==

It may be part of a "stellar marketing strategy!" by Premise Media, but it's still copyright infringement. Especially "Imagine," which I know was without Ono's permission. Sometimes the truth is ugly, Ed, but lo! it will set you free.-[[User:Chimera1|Chimera1]] 14:56, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:The legal issue involved is how many seconds can be used in a documentary; I don't think the law is clear on that.

:The moral issue is academic freedom. The motivation of these "infringement" reports is not so much to ensure that copyright owners get all the money they deserve, but to suppress the message of the film - which, ironically, is that Darwinsts suppress all criticism of their ideas. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:59, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

::: I think the moral issue here is that the producers of ''Expelled'' are ina venture aimed at making a profit, so if they are earning revenues from the film they owe royalties on any copyrighted material used, or the permission of the copyright holders to use the material royalty-free. The producers of the movie may feel they are entitled to use this material because it's for a cause they believe in, but they're still charging admission. As I recall, "Thou shalt not steal" is a moral principle, too. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 00:39, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

::I'm not aware that "academic freedom" is a defense to copyright infringement! Further, that legal issue is in fact settled. Although it depends upon the nature of the use of the "seconds," a copyright violation can cease to be ''de minimis'' from a use of as few as 60 seconds of video/audio. Would you like to submit a reading plan for Title 17 of the US Code? I can suggest you start with ss 106-07.-[[User:Chimera1|Chimera1]] 15:02, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

::#I didn't say the two issues were related.
::#When you come back from your block, perhaps you will expand upon the legal in's and out's of copyright law. Some laws are clear cut, but there are judicial interpretations, legal precedents, etc. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 15:09, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Ed, I'm happy to expand upon copyright law, but you can't expect me to educate you for the claims that you assert. The proper response to me calling you out on copyright law is for you to learn where or if you went wrong, not for you to block me and then command me address our differences in a substantive article, when the issue could be resolved here, between us, with a minimum of transaction costs, if you simply educated yourself before you spoke.-[[User:Chimera1|Chimera1]] 20:56, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes, I can. This web site is an educational resource. We do little else but write articles to save readers the trouble of sifting through all the stuff on the web. If you can explain copyright to me in a few words so I don't have to read 5 books, that would be a big help.

I'm not really claiming anything, and this is not a debate. This page is discussing how to improve the Premise Media article. The discussion above is about the controversy over their use of licensed music (from the rock group that changed their mind), unlicensed music (Yoko Ono's lawyers haven't '''yet''' said that they'll sue) and some more vague legal posturing over the "look and feel" of some animation they did.

If you know anything about this, stick around and correct any mistakes you see. Meanwhile, I suggest you take a humble attitude, as we have a policy around here that volunteers '''must''' let others order them around. See "teamwork" [http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Guidelines#Teamwork here]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 21:23, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
:Fair, but until I explain to you what copyright law looks like in a few words, don't make outrageously partisan claims without support and block people for calling you out on it! Teamwork ;-)-[[User:Chimera1|Chimera1]] 21:29, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

LOL, okay! --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 21:32, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== "Imagine flap" ==

The "Imagine flap" section is a response to something that it not explained. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 07:34, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

I've added some background around the other editor's orginal post. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 15:59, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

::Has the Imagine issue been resolved?

::--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 09:48, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Yes. Yoko had her butt handed to her in court. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 10:02, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Thanks for the answer. We ought to provide a reference link for that if there's not one already. I had a lot of issues with Expelled, but ''Imagine'' seemed fair game since Lennon himself had opened the door.

::::--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 19:44, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Premise Media

2008-07-31T23:44:18Z

UnicornTapestry: /* "Imagine flap" */

A blogger wrote:

*:“I think the point is that the truth seems to be a problem for Harvard — that is, the truth in the hands of the wrong people.”

*No kidding…that animation is all over the internet and on youtube of all places. Harvard didn’t seem the least bit concerned until an ID proponent showed it.

*Truth is, that when people really contemplate the inner life of a cell, you cannot miss the design….*that’s what worries them*. [http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal/expelled-plagiarizing-harvard/]

{{unsigned|Ed Poor}}

==Could be a calculated act==

After soaking this all in for a day, I think it is obvious that this is part of Expelled’s “baiting” of the Darwinist establishment. Just look at how quickly P-Zed took the bait for the private screening and the conference call. Same with Dawkins. Now XVIVO has taken the bait.

This is all one big marketing strategy by Expelled, and it has worked spectacularly. [http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal/expelled-plagiarizing-harvard/]

{{unsigned|Ed Poor}}

==Response to the film as an illustration of the film's point==

Those trying to stop this film accused its producers of fraudulence in obtaining interviews, hypocrisy, plagiarism, and copyright infringement. They have attacked the issuers of license for music used, “informed” Harvard about the video, threatened legal action, advocated sneaking in, advocated bootlegging the film, written to try to dissuade theatres from showing it, etc. I kept having visions of roadblocks set up to inspect the tire-pressure and tail lights of the trucks transporting the film to theatres. [http://www.uncommondescent.com/legal/expelled-plagiarizing-harvard/] {{unsigned|Ed Poor}}

== Copyright violations to make a point are still copyright violations ==

It may be part of a "stellar marketing strategy!" by Premise Media, but it's still copyright infringement. Especially "Imagine," which I know was without Ono's permission. Sometimes the truth is ugly, Ed, but lo! it will set you free.-[[User:Chimera1|Chimera1]] 14:56, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

:The legal issue involved is how many seconds can be used in a documentary; I don't think the law is clear on that.

:The moral issue is academic freedom. The motivation of these "infringement" reports is not so much to ensure that copyright owners get all the money they deserve, but to suppress the message of the film - which, ironically, is that Darwinsts suppress all criticism of their ideas. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:59, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

::: I think the moral issue here is that the producers of ''Expelled'' are ina venture aimed at making a profit, so if they are earning revenues from the film they owe royalties on any copyrighted material used, or the permission of the copyright holders to use the material royalty-free. The producers of the movie may feel they are entitled to use this material because it's for a cause they believe in, but they're still charging admission. As I recall, "Thou shalt not steal" is a moral principle, too. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 00:39, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

::I'm not aware that "academic freedom" is a defense to copyright infringement! Further, that legal issue is in fact settled. Although it depends upon the nature of the use of the "seconds," a copyright violation can cease to be ''de minimis'' from a use of as few as 60 seconds of video/audio. Would you like to submit a reading plan for Title 17 of the US Code? I can suggest you start with ss 106-07.-[[User:Chimera1|Chimera1]] 15:02, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

::#I didn't say the two issues were related.
::#When you come back from your block, perhaps you will expand upon the legal in's and out's of copyright law. Some laws are clear cut, but there are judicial interpretations, legal precedents, etc. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 15:09, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Ed, I'm happy to expand upon copyright law, but you can't expect me to educate you for the claims that you assert. The proper response to me calling you out on copyright law is for you to learn where or if you went wrong, not for you to block me and then command me address our differences in a substantive article, when the issue could be resolved here, between us, with a minimum of transaction costs, if you simply educated yourself before you spoke.-[[User:Chimera1|Chimera1]] 20:56, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Yes, I can. This web site is an educational resource. We do little else but write articles to save readers the trouble of sifting through all the stuff on the web. If you can explain copyright to me in a few words so I don't have to read 5 books, that would be a big help.

I'm not really claiming anything, and this is not a debate. This page is discussing how to improve the Premise Media article. The discussion above is about the controversy over their use of licensed music (from the rock group that changed their mind), unlicensed music (Yoko Ono's lawyers haven't '''yet''' said that they'll sue) and some more vague legal posturing over the "look and feel" of some animation they did.

If you know anything about this, stick around and correct any mistakes you see. Meanwhile, I suggest you take a humble attitude, as we have a policy around here that volunteers '''must''' let others order them around. See "teamwork" [http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Guidelines#Teamwork here]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 21:23, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
:Fair, but until I explain to you what copyright law looks like in a few words, don't make outrageously partisan claims without support and block people for calling you out on it! Teamwork ;-)-[[User:Chimera1|Chimera1]] 21:29, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

LOL, okay! --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 21:32, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

== "Imagine flap" ==

The "Imagine flap" section is a response to something that it not explained. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 07:34, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

I've added some background around the other editor's orginal post. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 15:59, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

::Has the Imagine issue been resolved?

::--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 09:48, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

:::Yes. Yoko had her butt handed to her in court. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 10:02, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

::::Thanks for the answer. We ought to provide a reference link for that if there's not on already. I had a lot of issues with Expelled, but ''Imagine'' seemed fair game since Lennon himself had opened the door.

::::--[[User:UnicornTapestry|UnicornTapestry]] 19:44, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Premise Media

2008-07-31T13:48:52Z

UnicornTapestry: /* "Imagine flap" */