Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-16T20:02:14Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

==Pope John Paul II image placement==

Perhaps it's just on my particular web browser, but the image of Pope John Paul II is located right next to the section on the abuse controversy. This appears to try to link him to the scandal in a way that I'm sure is unintended. Could it be relocated?[[User:HectorJ|HectorJ]] 19:08, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

:It could be viewed as a subliminal message, and I remember the BBC reporting on a leaked letter by the adjacent Pope John XXIII describing the process and calling for excommunication of victims who went public. Let's move them both. -[[User:Danq|danq]] 23:46, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

==Evolutionism and creationism==
In the "Evolutionism and creationism" section, I can't quite be certain, but if memory serves correctly offences that warrant excommunication are limited to preaching of abortion, ordaining a female into the priesthood, and engaging in schismatic actions. Perhaps someone should look into this. [[User:Pano|Pano]] 00:34, 28 June 2011 (EDT)

==Child abuse scandal==
There should be a full section on the child abuse scandal, if not a full article. At the moment there is just one sentence on it. And it wasn't just in the 90's and 2000's, it's been happening for decades all over the world, and the church tried to cover it as well. I don't think the current sentence on the child abuse scandal addresses the severity and scale of the issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jHqndf9Kx4 watch this, it will give you an idea of how serious this issue is and why it should not be ignored. [[User:Danielspence]] 14:47, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
:Since this article should be about what the Catholic Church is about, the history of the church would have brief sentences and paragraphs; the child abuse scandal should have a minor sentence here as well. But, main articles on various subjects apply - both good and bad (see Pope [[Formosus]]) - and the child abuse scandal is one of them. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 15:27, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

::The child abuse/homosexuality scandal does not define what the Church is about. It is a rather horrifying situation and a scourge to Christ's bride. Child abuse rates among the general population happen in greater numbers than Church offenders. There have been 2000 years of the Church surviving various other scandalous attacks. I think expansion beyond a couple sentences is wrong. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 01:37, 18 October 2011 (EDT)
:::If you don't want to fully acknowledge it on this article then a new article should be created about the scandal. Conservapedia has various other articles on much more trivial scandals such as the scandal regarding wikipedia contributor "Essjay". I'm not saying that the wikipedia scandal wasn't a notable one, but the Catholic child abuse scandal was a much more fiery controversy. [[Danielspence]] 14:38, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

== Sex scandal, Da Vinci Code reference, See Also section ==

The note on sex scandals seems to be repeatedly changed to imply that this is the case, was true of at least 200 years, or (most recent edit) always was the case about the Catholic Church. I have changed it to: "The aftermath of a series of sexual abuse scandals. In the early 2000s, it was found that bishops were privately settling cases of molestation of minors by priests, occurring primarily between the 1940s and 1980s." -[[User:Danq|danq]] 19:39, 5 November 2011 (EDT)

:There seems to be one obscure saint who founded an obscure and controversial religious order at the "See Also" which I believe is a derogatory Dan Brown/Da Vinci Code reference. It keeps being put back. Why? -[[User:Danq|danq]] 21:48, 6 November 2011 (EST)

::Just updated "See Also" JPII to Benedict XVI. Putting every Saint, Blessed, Servant of God, and Pope under the heading "See Also" is not only irrelevant to "Roman Catholic Church" but is highly impractical, especially obscure figures like the Opus Dei founder I removed before. Sorry if I got mean before, but people kept changing the proven-true events to a stereotype and conspiracy theory, and the Opus Dei reference was obviously a troll-job. -[[User:Danq|danq]] 22:16, 7 November 2011 (EST)

== Evolution ==

The Catholic Church's take on evolution is more complex than what's written here. It does not officially endorse theistic evolution: no Pope has, so far, spoken ''ex cathedra'' on the issue, neither in favor neither contrarily and the Church's catechism does not mention evolution or Creationism. So Catholics are basically left free of deciding for themselves.

Unofficially, the Church wholly accepts the scientific version of the Earth's forming, which it has substantially helped discovering: geology and sismology are not called "Jesuit sciences" for nothing. The Big Bang theory was also formulated by Fr. Lemaitre, a French priest. Also, the Catholic Church explicitly teaches that the Bible is meant to be read allegorically, and furthermore that theology and science are distinct and compatible - science studies the universe, theology what's beyond it.
So I think that we should mention that Young Earth creationism or any non-scientific theory about the formation of the Earth and the universe aren't generally accepted by the Roman Catholic Church.

Life's genesis is a bit more touchy. Popes Pius XII, Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI have all personally endorsed evolution; study of it has been allowed, starting with the encyclical ''Humani Generis'' in 1950. The Catholic Catechism n.302 says: "Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created "in a state of journeying" (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it." This allows for the universe to evolve... and, implicitly, life.

Mostly, Church theologians generally focus on spiritual subjects, accepting that life evolved gradually and how Darwin described it. I quote an article from the ''Osservatore Romano'', the official newspaper of the Pope, which is unfortunately in Italian: [http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/77264 it's the one marked with 1.] The author calls Darwin's theory "happy intuition" and strongly attacks Intelligent Design, after having summarised and endorsed evolution: "The decision of the Pennsylvania judge, therefore, is correct. Intelligent Design does not belong to science and the pretense that it should be taught alongside Darwinism is not justified. Confusion between religious and scientific points of views is only created. It is not even requested in a religious view of the forming of the universe [...]". It also attacks Darwinist scientists who pass from scientific theory to "ideology" and concludes: "... we can say that we're not men for case or necessity; human history has a superior design".
So it's mostly a spiritual issue about the creation of soul and the Original Sin.

With your permission, I would like to complete this article. Thanks. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 15:48, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

:Please do edit the content entry, but the Catholic Church has expressly forbidden Catholics from teaching anything contrary to one Adam and one Eve, which means that the theory of modern evolution is bunkum according to the Church. Indeed, the [[Passion of Christ]] makes no sense without Adam's Original Sin, and Jesus himself confirmed that the [[Great Flood]] occurred.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:46, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::"... contrary to one Adam and One even ..." That idea is not in ''Humani Generis'' and is not the Church's teaching. We are shown what we already knew: we are special creations with miraculous souls created by God. The mention of Adam in ''Humani Generis'' addresses the anathema of polygenism, which is really just a denial of God. It's not Catholic creationism.
:::"... which means that the theory of modern evolution is bunkum according to the Church." You are sticking to something you made up. It is even more wrong this time around. You and I have already had this discussion, but your talk page was deleted and recreated, so it has disappeared. Since Humani Generis and John Paul II's teaching, the Church has been openly hostile to intelligent design creationism. Moreover, there has never been anything like a modern Pope, College of Cardinals, Canon Law, section of the Catechism, or any other modern source embracing young earth creationism. In reality, the Pontifical College openly embraces theistic evolution and visiting academics are invited to counsel the Pope and College on matters of science as the First Vatican Counsel exhorts. Pope Benedict wrote often enough of accepting Christian theistic evolution that we know what his position was for sure. Pope Francis has a degree in some scientific field, so it is extremely unlikely that he will embrace this anti-scientific young earth creationism. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:41, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Mr. Schlafly, would you please look at the history of your talk page and see if you can find our discussion? I would like to see the citations I made back then so I don't have to do the same research again to expand the simplistic statements about the Church's position on science in this article. I would be grateful. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:44, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I agree and I was going to say what Nate brillantly said. I can only add one thing: with "theistic evolution," the Church doesn't mean that God made particular interventions to make hominids evolve into humans. That, it's argued, would be proof of an unskilled God - a priest, a very good one, once said to me: "Think of a clock. It can run late, lose time and so we need the clockmaker to come and fix it from time to time. This is because the clock is unperfect, as it's made by imperfect men; now, think of the universe, and life, as a clock: would God be omnipotent if he needed to come over to push things as he wants them? Wouldn't an omnipotent God have foreseen everything from the very start (save for free will, which is a gift to us), even this fly buzzing around us? Yes: this is a truly almight God." In a sense God "designed" humans, but not directly or abruptly: evolution happened following the biological and physical rules of the universe that He creates.
:::This is a theological theory known as "continuous creation" and has been openly embraced by every Pope since ''Humani Generis'' (likely also by Francis), and it's heavily influenced by Leibniz. You can find a beautiful exposition of it on the web, by Fr. George Coyne, SJ, a Jesuit astronomer: [http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=18503 here].
:::What the Church does not accept is polygeny, the belief that humans come from different strains. And guess what - we indeed all come from Africa and from a single common genetic ancestor (mitocondrial Eve). The Original Sin is a subject of debate: likely there were no snakes, apples and fig leaves involved, as [http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm CCC 390] affirms that Genesis is written in a "figurative language." Even St. Augustin said that "nihil ad intelligendum secretius" than the Original Sin (nothing is more obscure than the nature of it) and, boy, he was smart. It can be about the knowledge (intended as the capability of distinguishing) of good and evil. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 16:57, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

'''RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE''': from the [[Humani Generis]], "For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that ... Adam represents a certain number of first parents." Yet that is precisely what the modern theory of evolution pretends. Also, [[Jesus]] acknowledged and referred to the [[Great Flood]], which evolution denies.

At some point, all intelligent people are faced with a choice: question what [[liberals]] taught us in school and be open to what Christ and logic dictate, or forever be a prisoner to what liberals teach. I urge you to choose the former.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:12, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:You are not reading the encyclical correctly. That is very specifically referring to the corollary problem in polygenism of describing Adam as figuratively representing the whole evolution of mankind - in other words, denying that Adam existed in favor of claiming multiple different kinds of "men". But we know Adam existed because without him there would be no original sin. We are taught that God created the souls of men and redeemed us through Jesus Christ. God, as the omnipotent creator of the universe, also created the means by which man would appear so that he could be blessed with a soul. Please re-read at least the sections around your quote so you can see for yourself that Pope Pius is not saying what you claim he is. I don't care whether "evolution denies" the flood if I even understand what that means. I don't think it happened and I'm not alone among the majority serious students of Catholic theology. You are incorrect if you are claiming that Jesus Christ described the flood as an actual event - He's obviously referring to Noah and his family's salvation figuratively - as new "Adams" to foretell Christ's redemption of all mankind. I urge you to reexamine what you're calling logic here. It's not based on Church teaching or Catholic scholarship. Believe what you want but please don't make the insulting claim that Catholics must believe what you say or they're liberal or illogical - I don't agree with you and I've spent my entire adult life studying with some of the most "conservative" lay and ordered Catholic scholars there are. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 18:11, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
::Nate, the Roman Catholic Church does not have great confidence in evolutionism. If they did, they would put all their chips on the table and speak ex-cathedra on this issue. :) And Protestants such as myself remember the [[Galileo Galilei]] incident. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:23, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::You apparently know zilch about Papal infallibility if you keep repeating this. It's not about "putting chips on the table" because it's not about your kind of vainglorious boasting. It's about narrowly directing the entire body of faithful on matters of critical Church doctrine and there are stepwise considerations to make. Pope Benedict wouldn't even do it. I'd be happy to help you learn something new but somehow I suspect you are still filled with hate and pride. :) [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 18:30, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Nate, Roman Catholics are still free to be young earth creationist and still hold to Roman Catholicism since no Pope has spoken ex-cathedra on evolutionism. Andy Schafly and [[Since33AD]] are both Catholic creationist. Correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, neither has been ex-communicated nor has the Roman Catholic Church threatened ex-communication! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:34, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:Indeed. As far as I gather Sam Brownback is a creationist (although I'm not sure if young earth or old earth) and he hasn't been excommunicated or anything. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 19:21, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
::Nate, "stepwise considerations to make" is just another way of saying that the Roman Catholic Church does not have full confidence in evolutionism and have not spoken ex-cathedra on this matter. You are not fully confident in evolutionism. If you were, you would have challenged the creationist university biology student [[VivaYehshua]] by now. And [[Kenneth Miller]] has yet to respond to GregG's inquiry about the [http://creation.com/15-questions 15 questions] for evolutionists. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:24, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

The [[Humani Generis]] is clear, [[Jesus]] was clear, and the logic is clear. There is no logical objection to one Adam, or to the [[Great Flood]]. But once one denies one Adam or the Great Flood, then numerous logical problems arise in explaining what Jesus said and did. Why choose illogic over logic? Well, one reason is because liberals push anti-Jesus theories, and evolution is one of them, and perhaps some would rather be accepted by liberals than ridiculed by them. I choose logic any day and urge others to do likewise. Logic never fails.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:15, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:You are entitled to believe falsehoods if you wish. The words in Humani Generis are printed right there in black and white. People should read them. It is improper to ascribe illogic, being "liberal" or whatever other insults you come up with to people who have justified principled disagreements with you like I have. This has nothing to do with politics. There is no anti-Jesus theory that could appeal to me. I do not care who ridicules me. I care about what's true and justifiable. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 22:33, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

::Nate, you can believe whatever you like, but the logic is with one Adam committing original sin, one Flood cleansing the world of debauchery, and the Passion to redeem the original sin. If there was more than one Adam, then original sin becomes implausible, and the Passion makes no sense. It is very difficult or impossible to make logical sense of both the modern theory of evolution and the [[Passion of Christ]]. And, as a result, most people who promote the theory of evolution reject the divinity and resurrection of Jesus.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:12, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Nate, put all your theistic evolution chips on the table. Debate the creationist university biology student [[VivaYehshua]]. Unless of course, you think he would badly beat you in a debate on the [http://creation.com/15-questions 15 questions] for evolutionists. We both know that he would win such a debate hands down. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 02:59, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:I've said this over and over, yet you seem to be willfully misrepresenting my position. Let's put this simply. I'm nearly 50 years old. I've been studying theology a long time. I am not an expert by any means but I also don't care about evolution. I care about theology and in particular about the correct representation of Catholic theology and dogma on Conservapedia. Biblical hermeneutics as it relates to Genesis is very interesting. I would like to learn more and showing you to be an ill-informed fool is a great chance to do that. I have no interest in debating an obscure "creationist university biology student" who is a stranger to this discussion. I've repeatedly challenged ''you'' to debate me on the theological basis for ''your'' beliefs because ''you'' are the one who frequently insults me and Greg and shows a very weak grasp of Biblical hermeneutics, but you always tremble like a timorous chicken in your intellectual bunnyhole and demand people debate someone else. Are those the words you use to speak to "obscure internet posers" when you use your ESP to look into their hearts to judge them? That's just silly. There's no sensible excuse for it if you're going to participate in these discussions. Either you put your chips on the table and justify your theological position or you show yourself to be a rank coward with your vain boasting, taunts, and demands that we go talk to someone else about your nonsense. If you want to say I'm not justifying that claim, let's debate it. We are instructed to be defenders of our faith. Do you have the courage and conviction to put some skin in the game? [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 09:48, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

::Nate, I welcome any theological insights you may have. If you deny one Adam, then what was original sin? If you think Jesus was speaking only in figurative terms about the [[Great Flood]], then are other miracles in Jesus's teachings and actions also merely figurative in your view?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:02, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Thanks for the questions. I do not deny one Adam. To do so would be anathema by Church law. No, I do not believe one can say that Jesus' miracles are merely figurative, as you say. I am talking about the interpretation of specific verses, not all Gospel accounts of Christ's miracles which I cannot deny as they are described and as I've experienced personally in having Christ in my own life. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 11:45, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Historical evidence points out to a major regional disaster from which the Flood may have been constructed; surely there was no Ark. Anyway, it's its symbolical meaning that matters. Jesus spoke to be understood from his contemporaries, making parables and allegories that were easy to understand by then-Hebrews. Think about the parable of the ten virgins: it is about a forgotten Eastern tradition which seems unusual to us today, but yet delivers a never-ending message.
::::Miracles are witnessed by the Gospels, descripted in the prose; the Great Flood is in a dialogue by Jesus.
::::What a Catholic cannot deny is the unique fault of Adam for the Original Sin, in other words that it was Adam's sin to condemn the whole human species. Not that Adam popped out ''ex nihilo''... I repeat: the question is spiritual, not biological. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 12:59, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

:::::In response to Nate, the modern theory of evolution does deny one Adam. As a result, most students who are taught and believe the theory of evolution will begin to doubt the purpose of the Passion and the divinity of Christ. Perhaps you're an unusual exception to that rule, but if you accept that there was one Adam, then you reject the modern theory of evolution.

:::::In response to Swordsman, apparently you do reject one Adam, which makes [[original sin]] and the Passion almost impossible to explain in a coherent manner.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:10, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
NateK, you wrote: "Let's put this simply. I'm nearly 50 years old. I've been studying theology a long time." I realize that you said that you are not an expert, but one of the surest signs of someone erring due to pride is them bragging on how long and hard that they have been studying something. This coupled with you saying you are a proud Irish Catholic with a family line stretching back into Catholicism and family in high places in the Roman Catholic Church is a ripe recipe for error. I had a business owner boss who commented on someone bragging about how long they had been in our industry and how good they were. My boss said something to the effect of: "Has he been in the industry 20 years or one year 20 times?" People have been known to repeat the same errors over and over.

Second, we both know that you are violently shoehorning Darwinism into the biblical text and that you are supposedly "seeing" something that the early Church fathers and Jews for thousands of years "missed". It is like your myriads of "missing links" in the fossil record. Nate, "It is important to note that no major Hebrew scholar says that Genesis is poetry. This is because Genesis has all the grammatical marks of being a historical narrative."[http://creation.com/genesis-poetry-father-hermeutics] Your creation compromises are not at all compelling as can be seen [http://creation.com/is-genesis-poetry-figurative-a-theological-argument-polemic-and-thus-not-history HERE] and [http://creation.com/creation-compromises-questions-and-answers HERE]

So why are you and theistic evolutionists committing fundamental Bible exegesis errors. It is due to valuing scientific consensus in the secular world over the Biblical text. And the history of the scientific consensus argument when weighed against the accuracy and insight/foresight of the biblical text has a very checkered past. See: [http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/10/scientific-consensus-and-evolutionary.html Jesus vs. the scientific consensus].

Lastly, creation scientists have a history of consistently winning creation vs. evolution debates dealing with the science and winning those debates hands down. See: [[Creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates]]. Now evolutionists are very reluctant to debate creationists on the science. Your unwillingness to debate [[VivaYehshua]] is not surprising, but it is very telling. There must be some reason why are unwilling to debate the grassroots champion of the grassroots [[Question evolution! campaign]] who is studying biology at the university level. Is it because you are afraid of badly losing? I think it is. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 13:13, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::NateK, one other thing. To my knowledge, it has always been the liberal Roman Catholics that I have locked horns with at CP and never the conservative ones. That is because the scientific consensus and evolutionism is such a "golden calf"/"sacred cow" to liberals and to [[liberal Christianity]]. And one of the ironies is that many liberal Catholics rarely read the Bible nor do the liberal Catholic hierarchy in the Western World stress Bible reading as can be seen by this statistic taken from a Roman Catholic website: "Far more disturbing was the poll result that showed that 44 percent of Catholics “rarely or never” read the Bible, while this is true of only 7 percent of Evangelicals and 13 percent of non-Evangelical Protestants. The level of religious vitality must be very low in a Christian church in which 44 percent of the membership almost never bothers to read the Bible."[http://www.crisismagazine.com/2009/why-catholics-dont-read-the-bible]

::Furthermore, the fruits of evolution loving liberal Christianity are quite sour as can be seen at: [[Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity]]. Bill Donahue of the Catholic League recognizes that many liberal Roman Catholics in the hierarchy of the church in the Western World has yielded bad fruit as can be seen [http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_and_pederasty#Roman_Catholic_Church.2C_Homosexuality_and_pederasty HERE]. Of course, this is not surprising. When you value pseudoscience and the scientific consensus over Scripture, the results are going to be bad. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 13:43, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

:You're really not getting it and I think people can readily tell that by how far away you get from the real points at hand when you launch into these irrelevant screeds. We're talking about theology and Biblical hermeneutics. It's time to step up to the plate, my good man. Instead of talking about other people's exegesis, I've repeatedly challenged ''you'' to debate your own with me. Each time you raise some nonsense that I've told you I don't care about, and continue publicly debasing yourself by showing such cowardice in crowing about an anonymous college kid on a chat site. Assigning him to fight the fights you stirred up with your pride and hatred of those who disagree with you is pathetic. I want to the debate the person who knows very little of what he talks about and vaingloriously accuses me of the worst sin. Let's do this. Then perhaps you'll think twice before you continue personally insulting people just because they disagree with you. That's just awful behavior. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:50, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::Conservative, I think we already made very clear that obsessively proposing to debate a creationist blogger is completely out-of-place in this discussion which is about the Catholic church's theological views over evolution, so that we may improve this article. We're not biologists, we would not be suitable foes for any kind of regular debate (that are made between experts, not amateurs). So please: enough.
::Catholics actually believe that an "Adam" somewhere, sometime existed; that he was the first "man"; that he was the first human to receive a soul by God and that he, and he alone, committed the Original Sin that spread to all mankind after him. This is what we (and I) believe. This is the nucleus of the Genesis, with everything around it being allegory and poetry - from the snake to the fig leaves. Circumstances are not defined by official dogma: we do not know where and when Adam lived, if he was really named "Adam", what the Original Sin was about, what happened next... but again, the question isn't biological or scientifical. It's spiritual. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 13:57, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Swordsman, you said the issue is "spiritual". Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits." If evolution loving [[Liberal Christianity]] is so spiritual, then why do they commit adultery more often and theologically conservative Christians? See: [[Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity]]. If evolution loving liberal Catholics and the evolution loving liberal Roman Catholic hierarchy are so spiritual, then why do so many Catholics fail to read the Bible compared to evangelical Christians?[http://www.crisismagazine.com/2009/why-catholics-dont-read-the-bible] If the Western Roman Catholic hierarchy is so spiritual, then why did Bill Donahue of the Catholic League say the Roman Catholic Church pederasty problem was the result of homosexual priests and cite statistics supporting his point? [http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_and_pederasty#Roman_Catholic_Church.2C_Homosexuality_and_pederasty] Anytime you want to stop pretending that liberal Catholics and liberal Protestants (theologically liberal) are godly, that would be fine with me. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 14:33, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
For God's sake, this is the most appalling and uncoherent ''nonsequitur'' I have ever read. Are you sure to be okay? We are talking about the Catholic Church's view on evolution, not your rubbish. Catholics fail to read the Bible because, banally, there's no Bible-reading culture among common believers. We trust the Church to teach it. There's no "pederasty" problem: it's outright pedophilia (and Jesus said those who made scandal to children should be drowned with a millstone, symbolically), which is a psychiatric criminal disorder; whether it has a source in repressed homosexuality in the clergy could be a subject of discussion but it's not absolutely the point of this topic! --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 14:46, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:Swordsman, I see that your sword is quite dull. Liberals always fails to deliver the goods and that is why you cannot defend the fruits of theological liberalism when stacked up beside the fruits of theological conservatism. You retreat to less objective rhetoric and prefer to sweep the fruits under the rug. Nevertheless, Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits".

:The fruits of economic liberalism and its mountains of debt will lay liberalism in all its forms low and the institutions that support it so I am not worrying about something as weak as liberalism or theological liberalism. Liberal Christianity will continue to shrink in the world while theologically conservative Christianity continues to prosper.[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/05/why-are-years-2012-and-2020-key-years.html]

:The historicity of the Bible and conservative Protestantism has evidence supporting it.[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/09/evidence-for-christianity-websites-and.html] Evolution loving, liberal Catholicism on the other hand is a den of iniquity supported by nothing but hot air and blowhards who run away from their fruits and the evidence supporting biblical Christianity. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 15:13, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

::I came here to discuss about the Catholic Church and evolution, to improve this article; we were having a productive discussion with Andrew and Nate until you came over and spawned your... this is supposed to be family-friendly, right?... your rants about the universal woes of "liberalism" (what Americans call liberalism at least). Which has absolutely ZERO pertinence to what we are discussing here, besides pounding the discussion into ridicule for those who read. Your hatred of Catholicism quite sums up your character; I'm tolerant and I will not get dragged into religion wars - just, I always wondered which one of the 41,000/30,000/10,000 protestant churches is right, since they all say they're "the one" that is right?
::By the way, I'm a ''liberale'' in Italy. Before you explode, go seeing what "liberalism" actually is in Europe.
::I will not answer to any other comment which does not return to the main point of discussion: facts about the Catholic Church and evolution. Over. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 15:25, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Darwinism loving, Italian, theologically liberal Catholicism has a bleak future.[http://voxday.blogspot.com/2008/02/demographic-winter.html] France has a history of Catholicism. No doubt what is happening in France will happen to Italy as well.[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/08/scholars-say-evangelicalism-is-fast.html] Morals degeneration has been linked belief in evolution via a [http://creation.com/morals-decline-linked-to-belief-in-evolution university study] and Italy/France are starting to pay a heavy price on the economic front due to their deep indebtedness and other drags on their economy. On the other hand, "Either way, not a single Protestant or Germanic EU country has so far needed a bailout."[http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100116846/yet-another-catholic-country-needs-a-bailout-from-the-protestant-north/] See also: [http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2011/oct/31/economics-religion-research Protestant work ethic and European countries] [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 15:49, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::::That's a parody. That's all a parody. I'm on candid camera. You can't be serious - or sane. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 15:52, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:::::When you have to rely on armchair internet psychobabbling and cannot address the fruits of your religion, then something is seriously amiss. Nevertheless, Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits." and liberal Catholics are not "spiritual" to use a term that you used above and were unsuccessful in defending. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 15:58, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::::::You destroyed an interessant discussion over the Catholic Church and evolution with your delusions and obsessions. That's all I'm going to say, Ken. I will not communicate with you anymore unless you revert to the topic at hand. Goodbye. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 16:02, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-16T19:52:35Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-16T19:29:29Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-16T19:25:51Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

==Pope John Paul II image placement==

Perhaps it's just on my particular web browser, but the image of Pope John Paul II is located right next to the section on the abuse controversy. This appears to try to link him to the scandal in a way that I'm sure is unintended. Could it be relocated?[[User:HectorJ|HectorJ]] 19:08, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

:It could be viewed as a subliminal message, and I remember the BBC reporting on a leaked letter by the adjacent Pope John XXIII describing the process and calling for excommunication of victims who went public. Let's move them both. -[[User:Danq|danq]] 23:46, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

==Evolutionism and creationism==
In the "Evolutionism and creationism" section, I can't quite be certain, but if memory serves correctly offences that warrant excommunication are limited to preaching of abortion, ordaining a female into the priesthood, and engaging in schismatic actions. Perhaps someone should look into this. [[User:Pano|Pano]] 00:34, 28 June 2011 (EDT)

==Child abuse scandal==
There should be a full section on the child abuse scandal, if not a full article. At the moment there is just one sentence on it. And it wasn't just in the 90's and 2000's, it's been happening for decades all over the world, and the church tried to cover it as well. I don't think the current sentence on the child abuse scandal addresses the severity and scale of the issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jHqndf9Kx4 watch this, it will give you an idea of how serious this issue is and why it should not be ignored. [[User:Danielspence]] 14:47, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
:Since this article should be about what the Catholic Church is about, the history of the church would have brief sentences and paragraphs; the child abuse scandal should have a minor sentence here as well. But, main articles on various subjects apply - both good and bad (see Pope [[Formosus]]) - and the child abuse scandal is one of them. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 15:27, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

::The child abuse/homosexuality scandal does not define what the Church is about. It is a rather horrifying situation and a scourge to Christ's bride. Child abuse rates among the general population happen in greater numbers than Church offenders. There have been 2000 years of the Church surviving various other scandalous attacks. I think expansion beyond a couple sentences is wrong. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 01:37, 18 October 2011 (EDT)
:::If you don't want to fully acknowledge it on this article then a new article should be created about the scandal. Conservapedia has various other articles on much more trivial scandals such as the scandal regarding wikipedia contributor "Essjay". I'm not saying that the wikipedia scandal wasn't a notable one, but the Catholic child abuse scandal was a much more fiery controversy. [[Danielspence]] 14:38, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

== Sex scandal, Da Vinci Code reference, See Also section ==

The note on sex scandals seems to be repeatedly changed to imply that this is the case, was true of at least 200 years, or (most recent edit) always was the case about the Catholic Church. I have changed it to: "The aftermath of a series of sexual abuse scandals. In the early 2000s, it was found that bishops were privately settling cases of molestation of minors by priests, occurring primarily between the 1940s and 1980s." -[[User:Danq|danq]] 19:39, 5 November 2011 (EDT)

:There seems to be one obscure saint who founded an obscure and controversial religious order at the "See Also" which I believe is a derogatory Dan Brown/Da Vinci Code reference. It keeps being put back. Why? -[[User:Danq|danq]] 21:48, 6 November 2011 (EST)

::Just updated "See Also" JPII to Benedict XVI. Putting every Saint, Blessed, Servant of God, and Pope under the heading "See Also" is not only irrelevant to "Roman Catholic Church" but is highly impractical, especially obscure figures like the Opus Dei founder I removed before. Sorry if I got mean before, but people kept changing the proven-true events to a stereotype and conspiracy theory, and the Opus Dei reference was obviously a troll-job. -[[User:Danq|danq]] 22:16, 7 November 2011 (EST)

== Evolution ==

The Catholic Church's take on evolution is more complex than what's written here. It does not officially endorse theistic evolution: no Pope has, so far, spoken ''ex cathedra'' on the issue, neither in favor neither contrarily and the Church's catechism does not mention evolution or Creationism. So Catholics are basically left free of deciding for themselves.

Unofficially, the Church wholly accepts the scientific version of the Earth's forming, which it has substantially helped discovering: geology and sismology are not called "Jesuit sciences" for nothing. The Big Bang theory was also formulated by Fr. Lemaitre, a French priest. Also, the Catholic Church explicitly teaches that the Bible is meant to be read allegorically, and furthermore that theology and science are distinct and compatible - science studies the universe, theology what's beyond it.
So I think that we should mention that Young Earth creationism or any non-scientific theory about the formation of the Earth and the universe aren't generally accepted by the Roman Catholic Church.

Life's genesis is a bit more touchy. Popes Pius XII, Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI have all personally endorsed evolution; study of it has been allowed, starting with the encyclical ''Humani Generis'' in 1950. The Catholic Catechism n.302 says: "Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created "in a state of journeying" (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it." This allows for the universe to evolve... and, implicitly, life.

Mostly, Church theologians generally focus on spiritual subjects, accepting that life evolved gradually and how Darwin described it. I quote an article from the ''Osservatore Romano'', the official newspaper of the Pope, which is unfortunately in Italian: [http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/77264 it's the one marked with 1.] The author calls Darwin's theory "happy intuition" and strongly attacks Intelligent Design, after having summarised and endorsed evolution: "The decision of the Pennsylvania judge, therefore, is correct. Intelligent Design does not belong to science and the pretense that it should be taught alongside Darwinism is not justified. Confusion between religious and scientific points of views is only created. It is not even requested in a religious view of the forming of the universe [...]". It also attacks Darwinist scientists who pass from scientific theory to "ideology" and concludes: "... we can say that we're not men for case or necessity; human history has a superior design".
So it's mostly a spiritual issue about the creation of soul and the Original Sin.

With your permission, I would like to complete this article. Thanks. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 15:48, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

:Please do edit the content entry, but the Catholic Church has expressly forbidden Catholics from teaching anything contrary to one Adam and one Eve, which means that the theory of modern evolution is bunkum according to the Church. Indeed, the [[Passion of Christ]] makes no sense without Adam's Original Sin, and Jesus himself confirmed that the [[Great Flood]] occurred.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:46, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::"... contrary to one Adam and One even ..." That idea is not in ''Humani Generis'' and is not the Church's teaching. We are shown what we already knew: we are special creations with miraculous souls created by God. The mention of Adam in ''Humani Generis'' addresses the anathema of polygenism, which is really just a denial of God. It's not Catholic creationism.
:::"... which means that the theory of modern evolution is bunkum according to the Church." You are sticking to something you made up. It is even more wrong this time around. You and I have already had this discussion, but your talk page was deleted and recreated, so it has disappeared. Since Humani Generis and John Paul II's teaching, the Church has been openly hostile to intelligent design creationism. Moreover, there has never been anything like a modern Pope, College of Cardinals, Canon Law, section of the Catechism, or any other modern source embracing young earth creationism. In reality, the Pontifical College openly embraces theistic evolution and visiting academics are invited to counsel the Pope and College on matters of science as the First Vatican Counsel exhorts. Pope Benedict wrote often enough of accepting Christian theistic evolution that we know what his position was for sure. Pope Francis has a degree in some scientific field, so it is extremely unlikely that he will embrace this anti-scientific young earth creationism. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:41, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Mr. Schlafly, would you please look at the history of your talk page and see if you can find our discussion? I would like to see the citations I made back then so I don't have to do the same research again to expand the simplistic statements about the Church's position on science in this article. I would be grateful. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:44, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I agree and I was going to say what Nate brillantly said. I can only add one thing: with "theistic evolution," the Church doesn't mean that God made particular interventions to make hominids evolve into humans. That, it's argued, would be proof of an unskilled God - a priest, a very good one, once said to me: "Think of a clock. It can run late, lose time and so we need the clockmaker to come and fix it from time to time. This is because the clock is unperfect, as it's made by imperfect men; now, think of the universe, and life, as a clock: would God be omnipotent if he needed to come over to push things as he wants them? Wouldn't an omnipotent God have foreseen everything from the very start (save for free will, which is a gift to us), even this fly buzzing around us? Yes: this is a truly almight God." In a sense God "designed" humans, but not directly or abruptly: evolution happened following the biological and physical rules of the universe that He creates.
:::This is a theological theory known as "continuous creation" and has been openly embraced by every Pope since ''Humani Generis'' (likely also by Francis), and it's heavily influenced by Leibniz. You can find a beautiful exposition of it on the web, by Fr. George Coyne, SJ, a Jesuit astronomer: [http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=18503 here].
:::What the Church does not accept is polygeny, the belief that humans come from different strains. And guess what - we indeed all come from Africa and from a single common genetic ancestor (mitocondrial Eve). The Original Sin is a subject of debate: likely there were no snakes, apples and fig leaves involved, as [http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm CCC 390] affirms that Genesis is written in a "figurative language." Even St. Augustin said that "nihil ad intelligendum secretius" than the Original Sin (nothing is more obscure than the nature of it) and, boy, he was smart. It can be about the knowledge (intended as the capability of distinguishing) of good and evil. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 16:57, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

'''RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE''': from the [[Humani Generis]], "For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that ... Adam represents a certain number of first parents." Yet that is precisely what the modern theory of evolution pretends. Also, [[Jesus]] acknowledged and referred to the [[Great Flood]], which evolution denies.

At some point, all intelligent people are faced with a choice: question what [[liberals]] taught us in school and be open to what Christ and logic dictate, or forever be a prisoner to what liberals teach. I urge you to choose the former.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:12, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:You are not reading the encyclical correctly. That is very specifically referring to the corollary problem in polygenism of describing Adam as figuratively representing the whole evolution of mankind - in other words, denying that Adam existed in favor of claiming multiple different kinds of "men". But we know Adam existed because without him there would be no original sin. We are taught that God created the souls of men and redeemed us through Jesus Christ. God, as the omnipotent creator of the universe, also created the means by which man would appear so that he could be blessed with a soul. Please re-read at least the sections around your quote so you can see for yourself that Pope Pius is not saying what you claim he is. I don't care whether "evolution denies" the flood if I even understand what that means. I don't think it happened and I'm not alone among the majority serious students of Catholic theology. You are incorrect if you are claiming that Jesus Christ described the flood as an actual event - He's obviously referring to Noah and his family's salvation figuratively - as new "Adams" to foretell Christ's redemption of all mankind. I urge you to reexamine what you're calling logic here. It's not based on Church teaching or Catholic scholarship. Believe what you want but please don't make the insulting claim that Catholics must believe what you say or they're liberal or illogical - I don't agree with you and I've spent my entire adult life studying with some of the most "conservative" lay and ordered Catholic scholars there are. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 18:11, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
::Nate, the Roman Catholic Church does not have great confidence in evolutionism. If they did, they would put all their chips on the table and speak ex-cathedra on this issue. :) And Protestants such as myself remember the [[Galileo Galilei]] incident. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:23, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::You apparently know zilch about Papal infallibility if you keep repeating this. It's not about "putting chips on the table" because it's not about your kind of vainglorious boasting. It's about narrowly directing the entire body of faithful on matters of critical Church doctrine and there are stepwise considerations to make. Pope Benedict wouldn't even do it. I'd be happy to help you learn something new but somehow I suspect you are still filled with hate and pride. :) [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 18:30, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Nate, Roman Catholics are still free to be young earth creationist and still hold to Roman Catholicism since no Pope has spoken ex-cathedra on evolutionism. Andy Schafly and [[Since33AD]] are both Catholic creationist. Correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, neither has been ex-communicated nor has the Roman Catholic Church threatened ex-communication! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:34, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:Indeed. As far as I gather Sam Brownback is a creationist (although I'm not sure if young earth or old earth) and he hasn't been excommunicated or anything. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 19:21, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
::Nate, "stepwise considerations to make" is just another way of saying that the Roman Catholic Church does not have full confidence in evolutionism and have not spoken ex-cathedra on this matter. You are not fully confident in evolutionism. If you were, you would have challenged the creationist university biology student [[VivaYehshua]] by now. And [[Kenneth Miller]] has yet to respond to GregG's inquiry about the [http://creation.com/15-questions 15 questions] for evolutionists. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:24, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

The [[Humani Generis]] is clear, [[Jesus]] was clear, and the logic is clear. There is no logical objection to one Adam, or to the [[Great Flood]]. But once one denies one Adam or the Great Flood, then numerous logical problems arise in explaining what Jesus said and did. Why choose illogic over logic? Well, one reason is because liberals push anti-Jesus theories, and evolution is one of them, and perhaps some would rather be accepted by liberals than ridiculed by them. I choose logic any day and urge others to do likewise. Logic never fails.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:15, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:You are entitled to believe falsehoods if you wish. The words in Humani Generis are printed right there in black and white. People should read them. It is improper to ascribe illogic, being "liberal" or whatever other insults you come up with to people who have justified principled disagreements with you like I have. This has nothing to do with politics. There is no anti-Jesus theory that could appeal to me. I do not care who ridicules me. I care about what's true and justifiable. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 22:33, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

::Nate, you can believe whatever you like, but the logic is with one Adam committing original sin, one Flood cleansing the world of debauchery, and the Passion to redeem the original sin. If there was more than one Adam, then original sin becomes implausible, and the Passion makes no sense. It is very difficult or impossible to make logical sense of both the modern theory of evolution and the [[Passion of Christ]]. And, as a result, most people who promote the theory of evolution reject the divinity and resurrection of Jesus.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:12, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Nate, put all your theistic evolution chips on the table. Debate the creationist university biology student [[VivaYehshua]]. Unless of course, you think he would badly beat you in a debate on the [http://creation.com/15-questions 15 questions] for evolutionists. We both know that he would win such a debate hands down. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 02:59, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:I've said this over and over, yet you seem to be willfully misrepresenting my position. Let's put this simply. I'm nearly 50 years old. I've been studying theology a long time. I am not an expert by any means but I also don't care about evolution. I care about theology and in particular about the correct representation of Catholic theology and dogma on Conservapedia. Biblical hermeneutics as it relates to Genesis is very interesting. I would like to learn more and showing you to be an ill-informed fool is a great chance to do that. I have no interest in debating an obscure "creationist university biology student" who is a stranger to this discussion. I've repeatedly challenged ''you'' to debate me on the theological basis for ''your'' beliefs because ''you'' are the one who frequently insults me and Greg and shows a very weak grasp of Biblical hermeneutics, but you always tremble like a timorous chicken in your intellectual bunnyhole and demand people debate someone else. Are those the words you use to speak to "obscure internet posers" when you use your ESP to look into their hearts to judge them? That's just silly. There's no sensible excuse for it if you're going to participate in these discussions. Either you put your chips on the table and justify your theological position or you show yourself to be a rank coward with your vain boasting, taunts, and demands that we go talk to someone else about your nonsense. If you want to say I'm not justifying that claim, let's debate it. We are instructed to be defenders of our faith. Do you have the courage and conviction to put some skin in the game? [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 09:48, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

::Nate, I welcome any theological insights you may have. If you deny one Adam, then what was original sin? If you think Jesus was speaking only in figurative terms about the [[Great Flood]], then are other miracles in Jesus's teachings and actions also merely figurative in your view?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:02, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Thanks for the questions. I do not deny one Adam. To do so would be anathema by Church law. No, I do not believe one can say that Jesus' miracles are merely figurative, as you say. I am talking about the interpretation of specific verses, not all Gospel accounts of Christ's miracles which I cannot deny as they are described and as I've experienced personally in having Christ in my own life. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 11:45, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Historical evidence points out to a major regional disaster from which the Flood may have been constructed; surely there was no Ark. Anyway, it's its symbolical meaning that matters. Jesus spoke to be understood from his contemporaries, making parables and allegories that were easy to understand by then-Hebrews. Think about the parable of the ten virgins: it is about a forgotten Eastern tradition which seems unusual to us today, but yet delivers a never-ending message.
::::Miracles are witnessed by the Gospels, descripted in the prose; the Great Flood is in a dialogue by Jesus.
::::What a Catholic cannot deny is the unique fault of Adam for the Original Sin, in other words that it was Adam's sin to condemn the whole human species. Not that Adam popped out ''ex nihilo''... I repeat: the question is spiritual, not biological. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 12:59, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

:::::In response to Nate, the modern theory of evolution does deny one Adam. As a result, most students who are taught and believe the theory of evolution will begin to doubt the purpose of the Passion and the divinity of Christ. Perhaps you're an unusual exception to that rule, but if you accept that there was one Adam, then you reject the modern theory of evolution.

:::::In response to Swordsman, apparently you do reject one Adam, which makes [[original sin]] and the Passion almost impossible to explain in a coherent manner.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:10, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
NateK, you wrote: "Let's put this simply. I'm nearly 50 years old. I've been studying theology a long time." I realize that you said that you are not an expert, but one of the surest signs of someone erring due to pride is them bragging on how long and hard that they have been studying something. This coupled with you saying you are a proud Irish Catholic with a family line stretching back into Catholicism and family in high places in the Roman Catholic Church is a ripe recipe for error. I had a business owner boss who commented on someone bragging about how long they had been in our industry and how good they were. My boss said something to the effect of: "Has he been in the industry 20 years or one year 20 times?" People have been known to repeat the same errors over and over.

Second, we both know that you are violently shoehorning Darwinism into the biblical text and that you are supposedly "seeing" something that the early Church fathers and Jews for thousands of years "missed". It is like your myriads of "missing links" in the fossil record. Nate, "It is important to note that no major Hebrew scholar says that Genesis is poetry. This is because Genesis has all the grammatical marks of being a historical narrative."[http://creation.com/genesis-poetry-father-hermeutics] Your creation compromises are not at all compelling as can be seen [http://creation.com/is-genesis-poetry-figurative-a-theological-argument-polemic-and-thus-not-history HERE] and [http://creation.com/creation-compromises-questions-and-answers HERE]

So why are you and theistic evolutionists committing fundamental Bible exegesis errors. It is due to valuing scientific consensus in the secular world over the Biblical text. And the history of the scientific consensus argument when weighed against the accuracy and insight/foresight of the biblical text has a very checkered past. See: [http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/10/scientific-consensus-and-evolutionary.html Jesus vs. the scientific consensus].

Lastly, creation scientists have a history of consistently winning creation vs. evolution debates dealing with the science and winning those debates hands down. See: [[Creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates]]. Now evolutionists are very reluctant to debate creationists on the science. Your unwillingness to debate [[VivaYehshua]] is not surprising, but it is very telling. There must be some reason why are unwilling to debate the grassroots champion of the grassroots [[Question evolution! campaign]] who is studying biology at the university level. Is it because you are afraid of badly losing? I think it is. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 13:13, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::NateK, one other thing. To my knowledge, it has always been the liberal Roman Catholics that I have locked horns with at CP and never the conservative ones. That is because the scientific consensus and evolutionism is such a "golden calf"/"sacred cow" to liberals and to [[liberal Christianity]]. And one of the ironies is that many liberal Catholics rarely read the Bible nor do the liberal Catholic hierarchy in the Western World stress Bible reading as can be seen by this statistic taken from a Roman Catholic website: "Far more disturbing was the poll result that showed that 44 percent of Catholics “rarely or never” read the Bible, while this is true of only 7 percent of Evangelicals and 13 percent of non-Evangelical Protestants. The level of religious vitality must be very low in a Christian church in which 44 percent of the membership almost never bothers to read the Bible."[http://www.crisismagazine.com/2009/why-catholics-dont-read-the-bible]

::Furthermore, the fruits of evolution loving liberal Christianity are quite sour as can be seen at: [[Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity]]. Bill Donahue of the Catholic League recognizes that many liberal Roman Catholics in the hierarchy of the church in the Western World has yielded bad fruit as can be seen [http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_and_pederasty#Roman_Catholic_Church.2C_Homosexuality_and_pederasty HERE]. Of course, this is not surprising. When you value pseudoscience and the scientific consensus over Scripture, the results are going to be bad. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 13:43, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

:You're really not getting it and I think people can readily tell that by how far away you get from the real points at hand when you launch into these irrelevant screeds. We're talking about theology and Biblical hermeneutics. It's time to step up to the plate, my good man. Instead of talking about other people's exegesis, I've repeatedly challenged ''you'' to debate your own with me. Each time you raise some nonsense that I've told you I don't care about, and continue publicly debasing yourself by showing such cowardice in crowing about an anonymous college kid on a chat site. Assigning him to fight the fights you stirred up with your pride and hatred of those who disagree with you is pathetic. I want to the debate the person who knows very little of what he talks about and vaingloriously accuses me of the worst sin. Let's do this. Then perhaps you'll think twice before you continue personally insulting people just because they disagree with you. That's just awful behavior. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:50, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::Conservative, I think we already made very clear that obsessively proposing to debate a creationist blogger is completely out-of-place in this discussion which is about the Catholic church's theological views over evolution, so that we may improve this article. We're not biologists, we would not be suitable foes for any kind of regular debate (that are made between experts, not amateurs). So please: enough.
::Catholics actually believe that an "Adam" somewhere, sometime existed; that he was the first "man"; that he was the first human to receive a soul by God and that he, and he alone, committed the Original Sin that spread to all mankind after him. This is what we (and I) believe. This is the nucleus of the Genesis, with everything around it being allegory and poetry - from the snake to the fig leaves. Circumstances are not defined by official dogma: we do not know where and when Adam lived, if he was really named "Adam", what the Original Sin was about, what happened next... but again, the question isn't biological or scientifical. It's spiritual. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 13:57, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Swordsman, you said the issue is "spiritual". Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits." If evolution loving [[Liberal Christianity]] is so spiritual, then why do they commit adultery more often and theologically conservative Christians? See: [[Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity]]. If evolution loving liberal Catholics and the evolution loving liberal Roman Catholic hierarchy are so spiritual, then why do so many Catholics fail to read the Bible compared to evangelical Christians?[http://www.crisismagazine.com/2009/why-catholics-dont-read-the-bible] If the Western Roman Catholic hierarchy is so spiritual, then why did Bill Donahue of the Catholic League say the Roman Catholic Church pederasty problem was the result of homosexual priests and cite statistics supporting his point? [http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_and_pederasty#Roman_Catholic_Church.2C_Homosexuality_and_pederasty] Anytime you want to stop pretending that liberal Catholics and liberal Protestants (theologically liberal) are godly, that would be fine with me. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 14:33, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
For God's sake, this is the most appalling and uncoherent ''nonsequitur'' I have ever read. Are you sure to be okay? We are talking about the Catholic Church's view on evolution, not your rubbish. Catholics fail to read the Bible because, banally, there's no Bible-reading culture among common believers. We trust the Church to teach it. There's no "pederasty" problem: it's outright pedophilia (and Jesus said those who made scandal to children should be drowned with a millstone, symbolically), which is a psychiatric criminal disorder; whether it has a source in repressed homosexuality in the clergy could be a subject of discussion but it's not absolutely the point of this topic! --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 14:46, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:Swordsman, I see that your sword is quite dull. Liberals always fails to deliver the goods and that is why you cannot defend the fruits of theological liberalism when stacked up beside the fruits of theological conservatism. You retreat to less objective rhetoric and prefer to sweep the fruits under the rug. Nevertheless, Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits".

:The fruits of economic liberalism and its mountains of debt will lay liberalism in all its forms low and the institutions that support it so I am not worrying about something as weak as liberalism or theological liberalism. Liberal Christianity will continue to shrink in the world while theologically conservative Christianity continues to prosper.[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/05/why-are-years-2012-and-2020-key-years.html]

:The historicity of the Bible and conservative Protestantism has evidence supporting it.[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/09/evidence-for-christianity-websites-and.html] Evolution loving, liberal Catholicism on the other hand is a den of iniquity supported by nothing but hot air and blowhards who run away from their fruits and the evidence supporting biblical Christianity. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 15:13, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

::I came here to discuss about the Catholic Church and evolution, to improve this article; we were having a productive discussion with Andrew and Nate until you came over and spawned your... this is supposed to be family-friendly, right?... your rants about the universal woes of "liberalism" (what Americans call liberalism at least). Which has absolutely ZERO pertinence to what we are discussing here, besides pounding the discussion into ridicule for those who read. Your hatred of Catholicism quite sums up your character; I'm tolerant and I will not get dragged into religion wars - just, I always wondered which one of the 41,000 protestant churches is right, since they all say they're "the one" that is right?
::By the way, I'm a ''liberale'' in Italy. Before you explode, go seeing what "liberalism" actually is in Europe.
::I will not answer to any other comment which does not return to the main point of discussion: facts about the Catholic Church and evolution. Over. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 15:25, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-16T18:46:13Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

Greece

2013-06-16T18:14:51Z

Swordsman: /* World War II */

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|pm =Antonis Samaras
|pm-raw =
|area =50,944 sq mi
|pop =11,170,957 (2007)
|pop-basis =
|gdp =
|gdp-year =$305.595 billion(2007)
|gdp-pc =$27,360 (2007)
|currency =euro
|idd =
|tld =
}}
'''Greece''' ([[Greek language|Greek]]: Ελλάδα, ''Elláda''; officially: Ελληνική Δημοκρατία, "Hellenic Democracy") is a [[Balkan]] country located in the Southeastern part of [[Europe]]. It is also used as a
collective term for the ancient civilizations of that geographic area. It is now a developed country
<ref>http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1127.html</ref> and
member of the [[EU]] (European Union) and [[NATO]].

Greece was hit hard by the worldwide [[Recession of 2008]], and government finances are chaotic. The government deficit of 12.7% of GDP is the highest in the EU.

==Geography==
[[File:Aegean sea Greece.JPG|thumb|left|Aegean sea.]]
The mainland of Greece consists of two large parts connected by a small land bridge at the Gulf of Corinth (this has since been divided by the man-made Corinthian Canal), as well as nearly all the islands within the [[Aegean Sea]].
*Area: 131,957 sq. km. (51,146 sq. mi.; roughly the size of Alabama).
*Major cities: Capital--Athens. Greater Athens (pop. 3,566,060), municipality of Athens (772,072), Greater Thessaloniki (pop. 1,057,825), *Thessaloniki (824,633), Piraeus (182,671), Greater Piraeus (880,529), Patras (170,452), Iraklion (132,117), Larissa (113,090).
*Terrain: Mountainous interior with coastal plains; 1,400-plus islands.
*Climate: Mediterranean; mild, wet winter and hot, dry summer.

==People==
[[File:Greek dancer in traditional costume.jpg|thumb|left|Greek dancer in traditional costume.]]
Greece was inhabited as early as the Paleolithic period and by 3000 B.C. had become home, in the Cycladic Islands, to a culture whose art remains among the most evocative in world history. In the second millennium B.C, the island of [[Crete]] nurtured the maritime empire of the [[Minoan]]s, whose trade reached from [[Egypt]] to [[Sicily]]. The Minoans were supplanted by the [[Mycenaean]]s of the Greek mainland, who spoke a dialect of ancient Greek. The roots of Greek language and culture date back at least 3,500 years and its history is conventionally split into 3 major periods: Classical (1,500 BC - 4th century AD), Byzantine (4th century AD - 15th century) and Modern (15th century through today).
<ref> Greek: A History of the Language and Its Speakers
by Geoffrey C. Horrocks </ref>
[[File:Alexander the Great Pericles Constantine XI Eleftherios Venizelos.jpg|right|270px|Alexander the Great, Pericles, Constantine XI and Eleftherios Venizelos.]]
*Population (2005 est.): 11,104,000 million. (Immigrants make up approximately 10% of the population.)
*Growth rate (2007 estimated): 0.163%.
*Languages: Greek 99% (official); Turkish, others. Albanian is spoken by approximately 700,000 Albanian immigrants. English is the predominant second language.
*Religions: Greek Orthodox (approximately 98% of citizens), with Muslim (1.3%), Jewish, Catholic, Protestant, and other religious communities.
*Education: Years compulsory--9. Literacy--97.5%. All levels are free.
*Health: Infant mortality rate--5.43/1,000. Life expectancy--male 76.72 years, female 81.91 years.
*Work force: 4.72 million.

====Religion====
[[File:Greek church.jpg|thumb|left|Church in Oia, Santorini.]]
[[Eastern Orthodox]] [[Christianity]] is the dominant religion in Greece and receives state support. During the centuries of [[Ottoman]] domination, the [[Greek Orthodox Church]] helped preserve the Greek language and cultural identity and was an important rallying point in the struggle for independence. There is a centuries-old [[Muslim]] religious minority concentrated in [[Thrace]] and an estimated 300,000 Muslim immigrants living elsewhere in the country. Smaller religious communities in Greece include Old Calendar Orthodox, [[Catholic]]s, [[Protestant]]s, [[Jew]]s, [[Jehovah's Witnesses]], [[Mormon]]s etc. <ref>
Minorities in Greece by Richard Clogg (2002)
</ref>

====Education====
Greek education is free and compulsory for children between the ages of 6 and 15. Overall responsibility for education rests with the Ministry of National Education and Religious Affairs. Private colleges and universities (mostly foreign) do have campuses in Greece, although their degrees are not recognized by the Greek state. Entrance to public universities is determined by state-administered exams.
{{Clear}}

==Government and Political Conditions==
The October 2009 elections were convincingly won by the social-democratic Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK) which had been in opposition. The new prime minister is George Papandreou, a former foreign minister whose father and grandfather also served as prime ministers.

Greece is a [[parliamentary republic]] whose constitution was last amended in April 2001. There are three branches of government. The executive includes the president, who is head of state, and the prime minister, who is head of government. There is a 300-seat unicameral "Vouli" (legislature). The judicial branch includes a Supreme Court. Administrative subdivisions include 13 peripheries (regional districts) and 51 nomi (prefectures). Suffrage is universal at 18.

===Foreign Relations===
[[Image:Greek national costume.jpg|thumb|right|200px|Serviceman in the Greek Army, dressed in the national costume.]]
Greece's foreign policy is aligned with that of its EU partners. Greece gives particular emphasis to its close relations with Cyprus but also has growing political and economic ties with the Balkan countries and the Middle East.

Greece maintains full diplomatic, political, and economic relations with its Southeast European neighbors and regards itself as a leader of the region's Euro-Atlantic integration process. It provides peacekeeping contingents for Bosnia, Kosovo and Afghanistan. Greece has good relations with Russia and has embassies in a number of the central Asian republics, which it sees as potentially important trading partners.

Prominent issues in Greek foreign policy include Greek-Turkish differences in the Aegean, the name dispute with Macedonia and the reunification of Cyprus.

====Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM)====
The Greek dispute with its northern neighbor over its constitutional name, Republic of Macedonia, has been an important issue in Greek politics since 1992 and has inhibited the development of the bilateral relations to their fullest. Greece is weary of irredentist claims to the Greek province of Macedonia by certain FYROM circles. It is adamantly opposed to the use by FYROM of ethnic symbols that have historically been associated with Greek history in the geographic area of Macedonia and, in particular to the use of "Macedonia" by the government in Skopje. <ref> Greece: A Modern Sequel by John S. Koliopoulos and Thanos M. Veremis (2002)
</ref> Mediation efforts by the UN and the United States brokered an interim agreement whereby Greece recognized the country as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM) in September 1995. Since then, relations between the country developed rapidly, especially, in the economic sector where Greek entrepreneurs and direct aid have been crucial to FYROM's transition from a communist to a capitalist economy. Talks on the only outstanding issue remaining, that of the name, continue under UN auspices.

====Albania====
Greece restored diplomatic relations with Albania in 1971, but the Greek Government did not formally lift the state of war, declared during World War II, until 1987. After the fall of the Albanian communist regime in 1991, relations between Athens and Tirana became increasingly strained because of allegations of mistreatment of the Greek ethnic minority by Albanian authorities in southern Albania. A wave of Albanian illegal economic migrants to Greece exacerbated tensions. In the past several years, however, cooperation between Greece and Albania has improved, with efforts focused on regional issues, such as narcotics trafficking and illegal immigration. Greece remains host to 600,000-800,000 Albanian immigrants, many of them illegal. Crime in Greece involving Albanians often attracts headlines.

====Greek-Turkish Relations====
[[File:Meeting between Turkish and Greek ministers in Erzurum.jpg|thumb|left|280px|Turkish and Greek ministers, 2011.]]
Greece and Turkey have unresolved issues regarding the Aegean maritime boundary, the treatment of the Orthodox Church and Greek minority in Istanbul, and the Muslim minority in western Thrace. The largest source of tension in their relationship since 1974 has been the Cyprus conflict. Various UN-led efforts over the years to resolve the issue on a bizonal, bicommunal basis have failed: the latest attempt, the Annan Plan, was overwhelmingly rejected by Greek Cypriots in March 2004. Turkish Cypriots voted in favor of the plan and both Greece and Turkey expressed their approval. The Republic of Cyprus entered the EU on May 1, 2004 as a divided island. The UN is currently assessing whether the political will exists among the interested parties to restart negotiations.

At times over the past three decades, tensions between Greece and Turkey have almost reached the point of armed conflict. In 1996, President Clinton intervened to help avert a possible armed exchange after Greek and Turkish journalists generated a dispute over ownership of a tiny, uninhabited but strategically located islet called Imia (Kardak in Turkish). A significant breakthrough in relations took place when major earthquakes hit Turkey and Greece in 1999. Both countries and peoples responded generously to the other's need, helping turn around official perceptions that rapprochement was too risky politically. Since that time, Greek and Turkish Foreign Ministers have increased the quantity and quality of bilateral exchanges, both official and unofficial. However, the seriousness of the tensions is manifested by the fact that Turkey still maintains a list of issues that constitute casus belli in its relations with Greece.

Greece has endorsed and supported Turkey's bid for candidacy to the European Union since the Helsinki EU Summit in 1999. Despite continuing disagreements with Ankara over Cyprus and the Aegean, Greek opinion leaders across the political spectrum are convinced that Greece's long-term interests are best served by Turkey's successfully fulfilling the requirements for membership and joining the European Union. The EU opened accession talks with Turkey on October 3, 2005. <ref>A Concise History of Greece (Cambridge Concise Histories) by Richard Clogg (2002)</ref>

====The Middle East====
Greece claims a special interest in the Middle East because of its geographic position and its economic and historic ties to the area. Greece cooperated with allied forces during the 1990-91 Persian Gulf War. Since 1994, Greece has signed defense cooperation agreements with Israel and Egypt. In recent years, Greek leaders have hosted several meetings of Israeli and Palestinian politicians to contribute to the peace process. Greece has been traditionally sympathetic to Palestinian problems. However, beginning in the late 1990s, efforts to strike a more balanced relationship with Israel received a boost. Greek-Israeli relations have in the past been complicated by Israel's strategic cooperation with Turkey. Israeli President Moshe Katsav visited Greece in 2006, the first-ever official visit by an Israeli head of state.

==Economy==
[[File:Corfu Greece.jpg|thumb|300px|The port of Corfu in the Ionian Sea.]]
Greece adopted the euro as its new common currency in January 2002. The adoption of the euro provided Greece (formerly a high [[inflation]] risk country under the drachma) with access to competitive loan rates and also to low rates of the Eurobond market. This led to a dramatic increase in consumer spending which gave a significant boost to economic growth. This credit also led to a more relaxed fiscal policy starting in 2002, which, combined with expenditures associated with the preparation of the Athens 2004 Olympics, resulted in higher than intended deficits and debt in 2003 and 2004. The government deficit in 2004 is now estimated by the Greek government to have reached 6.6% of GDP. As a result of lower post-Olympic spending, the government deficit in 2005 is estimated to have been lowered to 4.3% of GDP, with a debt to GDP ratio of 107.9%. The administration pledged to reduce the government debt to 2.6% of GDP in 2006 and to tighten fiscal finances, under an EC excessive deficit surveillance program.
*GDP: $314.4 billion.
*Per capita GDP: $28,280.
*Growth rate: 4.0%.
*Inflation rate: 3.0%.
*Unemployment rate (annual average): 8.3%.
*Natural resources: Bauxite, lignite, magnesite, oil, marble.
*Agriculture (5.4% of GDP): Products--sugar beets, wheat, maize, tomatoes, olives, olive oil, grapes, raisins, wine, oranges, peaches, tobacco, cotton, livestock, dairy products.
*Manufacturing (21.3% of GDP): Types--processed foods, shoes, textiles, metals, chemicals, electrical equipment, cement, glass, transport equipment, petroleum products, construction, electrical power.
*Services (73.3% of GDP): Transportation, tourism, communications, trade, banking, public administration, defense.
*Trade: Exports--$23.5 billion: manufactured goods, food and beverages, petroleum products, cement, chemicals. Major markets--Germany, Italy, France, U.S., U.K. Imports--$75.8 billion: basic manufactures, food and animals, crude oil, chemicals, machinery, transport equipment. Major suppliers--Germany, Italy, France, Japan, Netherlands, U.S.
[[File:Plomari Port Greece 2004.JPG|thumb|left|240px|Plomari Port.]]
The Greek economy is estimated to have grown by 3.6% in 2005 and similar growth rates are projected through 2007. These growth rates resulted in a drop in unemployment (to 7.3% in the second quarter of 2007 from 10.4% in the same period in 2004). Foreign direct investment inflow has also dropped, and efforts to revive it have been only partially successful. At the same time, Greek investment in Southeast Europe has increased, leading to a net FDI outflow in some years.

Services make up the largest and fastest-growing sector of the Greek economy. About 14 million tourists were estimated to have visited Greece in 2005, with net revenues of about 10 billion euros. Remittances from transport (mainly shipping) are growing, and actually exceeded tourism receipts in 2004 and 2005. Receipts from tourism and transport have covered a significant portion of Greece's large trade deficit. Industrial activity has shown a mixed performance, with certain sectors such as the food industry and high-tech/telecommunications showing healthy increases, while textiles have declined. Agriculture employs about 12% of the work force and is still characterized by small farms and low capital investment, despite significant support from the EU in structural funds and subsidies. Traditionally a seafaring nation, the Greek-owned merchant fleet totaled 3,338 ships in March 2005, 8.7% of the world merchant fleet and 16.5% of world tonnage.

====European Union (EU) Membership====
Greece has realigned its economy as part of its transition to full EU membership that began in 1981. Greece last held the rotating EU presidency in the first half of 2003. Greek businesses continue to adjust to competition from EU firms, and the government has liberalized its economic and commercial regulations and practices.

Greece has been a major net beneficiary of the EU budget; in 2004, EU transfers accounted for 3.6% of GDP and are estimated to have been approximately 3.2% of GDP in 2005. From 1994-99, about $20 billion in EU structural funds and Greek national financing were spent on projects to modernize Greece's transportation network in time for the Olympics in 2004. The centerpiece was the construction of the new international airport near Athens, which opened in March 2001 soon after the launch of the new Athens subway system.

EU transfers to Greece continued with approximately $24 billion in structural funds for the period 2000-2006. Bureaucratic obstacles have led to significant delays in Greece's absorbing these funds which means that Greece may forfeit a portion of that. The same level of EU funding, $24 billion, has been allocated for Greece for 2007-2013. EU funds will continue to finance major public works and economic development projects, upgrade competitiveness and human resources, improve living conditions, and address disparities between poorer and more developed regions of the country.

==History==
====Ancient History====

[[File:Beginnings hist greece.jpg|thumb|left|700 - 600 B.C.]]
[[Ancient Greece]] had a lot of influence on many of today's cultural achievements, like democracy and the art of debating. The ancient Greeks were pagans, believing in their own pantheon of numerous gods.
[[Image:Greece Delphi Temple Apollo.jpg|thumb|250px|Delphi, Temple of Apollo.]]
Greece was instrumental in the spread and subsequent growth of [[Christianity]]. The first town of (today's) [[Europe]] Paul set foot in was [[Philipi]] in Northern Greece and the [[Athens]] hill on which he preached is one of the most important
landmarks of the town. It is generally accepted that the Greek-speaking part of the [[Roman Empire]] was the first one to abandon paganism <ref>Renaissance and Reformation: The Intellectual Genesis, by A. Levi Yale University Press (2004) </ref> and certainly, [[Constantine|Constantine the Great]], the first Christian Roman Emperor, moved his capital to [[Constantinople]] in the Greek East. Most of the great Church Fathers were either Greek or primarily active in the Greek-speaking areas of the Empire <ref>The Teachings of the Church Fathers, by John Randolph Willis, Ignatius Press (2002)</ref> (See: [[Greek influence on Western Culture]])

The [[Byzantine Empire]], as it was late called, was a continuation of the (Eastern) Roman Empire, but it was gradually identified with the Greek national conscience and the [[Greek-Orthodox]] Church. <ref>History of the Byzantine State, by G. Ostrogorski, Rutgers University Press (1986)</ref> The Byzantine State was dissolved after the conquest of [[Constantinople]] by the [[Ottoman Turks]] in 1453. The Greeks, along with the other Orthodox subjects of the Ottoman Empire, were represented by the [[Ecumenical Patriarchate]] of [[Constantinople]] and the Greek-Orthodox Patriarch was responsible for the obedience of the Orthodox subjects to the Sultan.

====Modern History====
The Greek War of Independence began in 1821 and concluded in 1830 when England, France, and Russia forced the Ottoman Empire to grant Greece its independence under a European monarch, Prince Otto of Bavaria.
[[Image:Gyzis After the Destruction of Psara.jpg|thumb|300px|''After the Destruction of Psara'' by [[Nikolaos Gyzis]] (1842 - 1901)]]
At independence, Greece had an area of 47,515 square kilometers (18,346 square mi.), and its northern boundary extended from the Gulf of Volos to the Gulf of Arta. Under the influence of the "Megali Idea," the expansion of the Greek state to include all areas of Greek population, Greece acquired the Ionian islands in 1864; Thessaly and part of Epirus in 1881; Macedonia, Crete, Epirus, and the Aegean islands in 1913; Western Thrace in 1918; and the Dodecanese islands in 1947.

Greece was politically divided as to which side to support during World War I, the king, Constantine I, wished to support the Central Powers and Prime Minister Venizelos wished to support Britain and France. The king dismissed Venizelos who set up a rival government in Thessaloniki and invited Allied troops to enter the country; which they did in 1917. The king went into exile and the split between Venizelos supporters and the Royalist parties began the 'Nation Schism' which was to mark the politics of Greece for the first half of the twentieth century. After the war, Greece supplied the overwhealming majority of the troops that took part in the Allied occupation of Turkey, where many Greeks still lived. Venizelos lost the general election in 1921 and the king returned. In late 1921, under Royalist Officers, those supporting Venizelos having been cashiered, the Greek army marched toward Ankara. It failed to reach it and was eventually defeated by Turkish forces led by Ataturk and forced to withdraw. Following the Greek defeat, in September 1922 Turkish troops sacked and burnt the town of Smyrna (now Izmir) resulting in the deaths of up to 30,000 Greek and Armenian refugess while British, French and American warships in the harbour, pleading neutrality, refused to pick up those attempting to flee; having their bands play loud music to drown out the cries from the shore.<ref>Milton, Giles (2008). Paradise Lost: Smyrna 1922: The Destruction of Islam's City of Tolerance (Paperback ed.). London: Sceptre; Hodder & Stoughton Ltd. ISBN 978-0-340-96234-3.</ref>Following the collapse of the Greek attempt to expand into Turkish territory, Venizelos, now back in power, reached a negotiated settlement with Ataturk for a compulsary exchange of populations, the result of which being that more than 1.3 million refugees from Turkey poured into Greece, creating enormous challenges for the Greek economy and society. <ref> The unification of Greece, 1770-1923, by Douglas Dakin.</ref>

Greek politics, particularly between the two world wars, involved a struggle for power between monarchists and Venizelists. Greece was proclaimed a republic in 1924, but George II returned to the throne in 1935 and shortly afterwards cooperated with General Metaxas in a coup which overthrew the democratically elected government and introduced a right wing dictatorship. A plebiscite in 1946 upheld the monarchy, which was finally abolished by referendum on December 8, 1974.

=====World War II=====
Greece sided with the Allies in World War II after [[Mussolini]]'s demands for surrender were met with the famous "Oxi" (pronounced 'Okhi')(''NO!'') statement of Greek Prime Minister [[Ioannis Metaxas]]. Italy invaded in October of 1940, and were repulsed in [[Albania]] by Greek troops. When German troops moved in with Operation Marita the Greek cause was hopeless, despite British military help. The Nazi timetable was slowed down during the Battle of Crete by fierce resistance, delaying the German invasion of the [[Soviet Union]] for over a month. Despite their efforts, the Nazi war machine was able to annex Greece. In 1943, with the Italian surrender to the Western Allies, Germans turned against their former allies: Italian troops on the continent were interned in POW camps in Germany, while the "Aqui" Division in Kefalonia was brutally exterminated (10,000 killed Italian troops). Following a brutal German occupation in which many Greeks died (including about 80% of Greece's Jewish community) German forces withdrew in October 1944, and the government-in-exile returned to Athens.

After the German withdrawal, the principal Greek resistance movement, which was controlled by the communists, the royalist resistance movement having cooperated with the Germans in many cases rather than allow the communist and leftist resistance to gain effective power, refused to disarm. A banned demonstration by resistance forces in Athens in December 1944 ended in battles with Greek Government and British forces.

=====Cold War=====
After liberation, Greece fell into [[Greek Civil War|civil war]] between [[communists]] and royalists. Lasting until 1949, the conflict resulted in a Royalist victory, preserving the Greek state, but at the cost of 40,000 lives. Britain provided some military aid but was too weakened by the war to continue. In 1947, the U.S. used the [[Truman Doctrine]] to send large-scale military and economic aid to Greece. In 1948 the [[Marshall Plan]] focused on the economic recovery and the rebuilding of Greece and all of Western Europe. The U.S. contributed hundreds of millions of dollars to rebuilding Greece in terms of buildings, agriculture, and industry.

In August 1949, the Greek national army forced the remaining insurgents to surrender or flee to Greece's communist neighbors. The insurgency resulted in 100,000 killed, 700,000 displaced persons inside the country, and catastrophic economic disruption. This civil war left Greek society deeply divided between leftists and rightists.

Greece became a member of NATO in 1952. From 1952 to late 1963, Greece was governed by conservative parties--the Greek Rally of Marshal Alexandros Papagos and its successor, the National Radical Union (ERE) of the late Constantine Karamanlis. In 1963, the Center Union Party of George Papandreou was elected and governed until July 1965. It was followed by a succession of unstable coalition governments.<ref>Short History of Modern Greece, 1821-1956 by Edward Seymour Forster and Douglas Dakin (1977) </ref>
[[File:George Papadopoulos.PNG|thumb|right|George Papadopoulos.]]
On April 21, 1967, just before scheduled elections, a group of colonels led by Col. George Papadopoulos seized power in a coup d'etat. The junta, supported initially by the Greek monarch and by America, suppressed civil liberties, established special military courts, and dissolved political parties. Several thousand political opponents were imprisoned or exiled to remote Greek islands. In November 1973, following an uprising of students at the Athens Polytechnic University, Gen. Dimitrios Ioannides replaced Papadopoulos and tried to continue the dictatorship.

Gen. Ioannides' attempt in July 1974 to overthrow Archbishop Makarios, the President of Cyprus, brought Greece to the brink of war with Turkey, which invaded Cyprus and occupied part of the island. Senior Greek military officers then withdrew their support from the junta, which toppled. Leading citizens persuaded Karamanlis to return from exile in France to establish a government of national unity until elections could be held. Karamanlis' newly organized party, New Democracy (ND), won elections held in November 1974, and he became Prime Minister.

Following the 1974 referendum, the Parliament approved a new constitution and elected Constantine Tsatsos as president of the republic. In the parliamentary elections of 1977, New Democracy again won a majority of seats. In May 1980, the late Prime Minister Karamanlis was elected to succeed Tsatsos as president. George Rallis was then chosen party leader and succeeded Karamanlis as Prime Minister.

On January 1, 1981, Greece became the 10th member of the European Community (now the European Union). In parliamentary elections held on October 18, 1981, Greece elected its first socialist government, the Panhellenic Socialist Movement (PASOK), led by Andreas Papandreou. In 1985, Supreme Court Justice Christos Sartzetakis was elected president by the Greek parliament. PASOK under Papandreou was re-elected in 1985.

=====Recent History=====
[[File:The Garden of the People in Corfu.JPG|thumb|left|330px|The Garden of the People in Corfu.]]
Greece had two rounds of parliamentary elections in 1989; both produced weak coalition governments with limited mandates. In the April 1990 election, ND won 150 seats and subsequently gained 2 others. After Prime Minister Mitsotakis fired Foreign Minister Andonis Samaras in 1992, the rift led to the collapse of the ND government and a victory in the September 1993 elections for Andreas Papandreou's PASOK.

On January 17, 1996, following a protracted illness, Prime Minister Papandreou resigned and was replaced by former Minister of Industry [[Constantine Simitis]]. In elections held in September 1996, Constantine Simitis was elected prime minister. In April 2000, Simitis and PASOK won again, gaining 158 seats to ND's 125. Parliamentary elections held March 7, 2004, gave ND a governing majority of 165 seats (against PASOK's 117). [[Konstantinos Karamanlis]], ND leader and the nephew of the former prime minister, became prime minister. [[Karolos Papoulias]] was elected President by Parliament in February 2005. The Karamanlis government was re-elected on September 16, 2007. The most recent election, on October 4, 2009, gave a majority to PASOK (160 seats) and the premiership to George Papandreou.

Greece's exemplary success in hosting a safe and secure [[2004 Summer Olympics]] in Athens has enhanced its international prestige. The 2004 Olympics and Paralympics left an impressive and expensive legacy of new roads, spectacular stadiums, and modern public transportation systems, which the PASOK government began in 1997 and the New Democracy government of Karamanlis completed in 2004.

==See also==
[[File:Greece Delphi Oracle.jpg|thumb|Delphi Oracle.]]
*[[Greco-Persian Wars]]
*[[Greek Philosophy]]
*[[Greek painting]]
*[[Greek influence on Western Culture]]
*[[Parthenon]]

{{Clear}}

== References ==
<references/>

{{Template:Copyright Details (US Government)|source=[http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3395.htm]}}

{{European Union}}

[[Category:European Countries]]
[[Category:NATO members]]
[[Category:Greece]]
[[Category:Christian-Majority Countries]]
[[Category:Balkans]]
[[Category:Ottoman Empire]]

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-16T17:57:03Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

==Pope John Paul II image placement==

Perhaps it's just on my particular web browser, but the image of Pope John Paul II is located right next to the section on the abuse controversy. This appears to try to link him to the scandal in a way that I'm sure is unintended. Could it be relocated?[[User:HectorJ|HectorJ]] 19:08, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

:It could be viewed as a subliminal message, and I remember the BBC reporting on a leaked letter by the adjacent Pope John XXIII describing the process and calling for excommunication of victims who went public. Let's move them both. -[[User:Danq|danq]] 23:46, 28 March 2010 (EDT)

==Evolutionism and creationism==
In the "Evolutionism and creationism" section, I can't quite be certain, but if memory serves correctly offences that warrant excommunication are limited to preaching of abortion, ordaining a female into the priesthood, and engaging in schismatic actions. Perhaps someone should look into this. [[User:Pano|Pano]] 00:34, 28 June 2011 (EDT)

==Child abuse scandal==
There should be a full section on the child abuse scandal, if not a full article. At the moment there is just one sentence on it. And it wasn't just in the 90's and 2000's, it's been happening for decades all over the world, and the church tried to cover it as well. I don't think the current sentence on the child abuse scandal addresses the severity and scale of the issue. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jHqndf9Kx4 watch this, it will give you an idea of how serious this issue is and why it should not be ignored. [[User:Danielspence]] 14:47, 17 October 2011 (EDT)
:Since this article should be about what the Catholic Church is about, the history of the church would have brief sentences and paragraphs; the child abuse scandal should have a minor sentence here as well. But, main articles on various subjects apply - both good and bad (see Pope [[Formosus]]) - and the child abuse scandal is one of them. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 15:27, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

::The child abuse/homosexuality scandal does not define what the Church is about. It is a rather horrifying situation and a scourge to Christ's bride. Child abuse rates among the general population happen in greater numbers than Church offenders. There have been 2000 years of the Church surviving various other scandalous attacks. I think expansion beyond a couple sentences is wrong. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 01:37, 18 October 2011 (EDT)
:::If you don't want to fully acknowledge it on this article then a new article should be created about the scandal. Conservapedia has various other articles on much more trivial scandals such as the scandal regarding wikipedia contributor "Essjay". I'm not saying that the wikipedia scandal wasn't a notable one, but the Catholic child abuse scandal was a much more fiery controversy. [[Danielspence]] 14:38, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

== Sex scandal, Da Vinci Code reference, See Also section ==

The note on sex scandals seems to be repeatedly changed to imply that this is the case, was true of at least 200 years, or (most recent edit) always was the case about the Catholic Church. I have changed it to: "The aftermath of a series of sexual abuse scandals. In the early 2000s, it was found that bishops were privately settling cases of molestation of minors by priests, occurring primarily between the 1940s and 1980s." -[[User:Danq|danq]] 19:39, 5 November 2011 (EDT)

:There seems to be one obscure saint who founded an obscure and controversial religious order at the "See Also" which I believe is a derogatory Dan Brown/Da Vinci Code reference. It keeps being put back. Why? -[[User:Danq|danq]] 21:48, 6 November 2011 (EST)

::Just updated "See Also" JPII to Benedict XVI. Putting every Saint, Blessed, Servant of God, and Pope under the heading "See Also" is not only irrelevant to "Roman Catholic Church" but is highly impractical, especially obscure figures like the Opus Dei founder I removed before. Sorry if I got mean before, but people kept changing the proven-true events to a stereotype and conspiracy theory, and the Opus Dei reference was obviously a troll-job. -[[User:Danq|danq]] 22:16, 7 November 2011 (EST)

== Evolution ==

The Catholic Church's take on evolution is more complex than what's written here. It does not officially endorse theistic evolution: no Pope has, so far, spoken ''ex cathedra'' on the issue, neither in favor neither contrarily and the Church's catechism does not mention evolution or Creationism. So Catholics are basically left free of deciding for themselves.

Unofficially, the Church wholly accepts the scientific version of the Earth's forming, which it has substantially helped discovering: geology and sismology are not called "Jesuit sciences" for nothing. The Big Bang theory was also formulated by Fr. Lemaitre, a French priest. Also, the Catholic Church explicitly teaches that the Bible is meant to be read allegorically, and furthermore that theology and science are distinct and compatible - science studies the universe, theology what's beyond it.
So I think that we should mention that Young Earth creationism or any non-scientific theory about the formation of the Earth and the universe aren't generally accepted by the Roman Catholic Church.

Life's genesis is a bit more touchy. Popes Pius XII, Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI have all personally endorsed evolution; study of it has been allowed, starting with the encyclical ''Humani Generis'' in 1950. The Catholic Catechism n.302 says: "Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created "in a state of journeying" (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it." This allows for the universe to evolve... and, implicitly, life.

Mostly, Church theologians generally focus on spiritual subjects, accepting that life evolved gradually and how Darwin described it. I quote an article from the ''Osservatore Romano'', the official newspaper of the Pope, which is unfortunately in Italian: [http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/77264 it's the one marked with 1.] The author calls Darwin's theory "happy intuition" and strongly attacks Intelligent Design, after having summarised and endorsed evolution: "The decision of the Pennsylvania judge, therefore, is correct. Intelligent Design does not belong to science and the pretense that it should be taught alongside Darwinism is not justified. Confusion between religious and scientific points of views is only created. It is not even requested in a religious view of the forming of the universe [...]". It also attacks Darwinist scientists who pass from scientific theory to "ideology" and concludes: "... we can say that we're not men for case or necessity; human history has a superior design".
So it's mostly a spiritual issue about the creation of soul and the Original Sin.

With your permission, I would like to complete this article. Thanks. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 15:48, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

:Please do edit the content entry, but the Catholic Church has expressly forbidden Catholics from teaching anything contrary to one Adam and one Eve, which means that the theory of modern evolution is bunkum according to the Church. Indeed, the [[Passion of Christ]] makes no sense without Adam's Original Sin, and Jesus himself confirmed that the [[Great Flood]] occurred.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:46, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::"... contrary to one Adam and One even ..." That idea is not in ''Humani Generis'' and is not the Church's teaching. We are shown what we already knew: we are special creations with miraculous souls created by God. The mention of Adam in ''Humani Generis'' addresses the anathema of polygenism, which is really just a denial of God. It's not Catholic creationism.
:::"... which means that the theory of modern evolution is bunkum according to the Church." You are sticking to something you made up. It is even more wrong this time around. You and I have already had this discussion, but your talk page was deleted and recreated, so it has disappeared. Since Humani Generis and John Paul II's teaching, the Church has been openly hostile to intelligent design creationism. Moreover, there has never been anything like a modern Pope, College of Cardinals, Canon Law, section of the Catechism, or any other modern source embracing young earth creationism. In reality, the Pontifical College openly embraces theistic evolution and visiting academics are invited to counsel the Pope and College on matters of science as the First Vatican Counsel exhorts. Pope Benedict wrote often enough of accepting Christian theistic evolution that we know what his position was for sure. Pope Francis has a degree in some scientific field, so it is extremely unlikely that he will embrace this anti-scientific young earth creationism. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:41, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Mr. Schlafly, would you please look at the history of your talk page and see if you can find our discussion? I would like to see the citations I made back then so I don't have to do the same research again to expand the simplistic statements about the Church's position on science in this article. I would be grateful. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:44, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::I agree and I was going to say what Nate brillantly said. I can only add one thing: with "theistic evolution," the Church doesn't mean that God made particular interventions to make hominids evolve into humans. That, it's argued, would be proof of an unskilled God - a priest, a very good one, once said to me: "Think of a clock. It can run late, lose time and so we need the clockmaker to come and fix it from time to time. This is because the clock is unperfect, as it's made by imperfect men; now, think of the universe, and life, as a clock: would God be omnipotent if he needed to come over to push things as he wants them? Wouldn't an omnipotent God have foreseen everything from the very start (save for free will, which is a gift to us), even this fly buzzing around us? Yes: this is a truly almight God." In a sense God "designed" humans, but not directly or abruptly: evolution happened following the biological and physical rules of the universe that He creates.
:::This is a theological theory known as "continuous creation" and has been openly embraced by every Pope since ''Humani Generis'' (likely also by Francis), and it's heavily influenced by Leibniz. You can find a beautiful exposition of it on the web, by Fr. George Coyne, SJ, a Jesuit astronomer: [http://www.catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=18503 here].
:::What the Church does not accept is polygeny, the belief that humans come from different strains. And guess what - we indeed all come from Africa and from a single common genetic ancestor (mitocondrial Eve). The Original Sin is a subject of debate: likely there were no snakes, apples and fig leaves involved, as [http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p7.htm CCC 390] affirms that Genesis is written in a "figurative language." Even St. Augustin said that "nihil ad intelligendum secretius" than the Original Sin (nothing is more obscure than the nature of it) and, boy, he was smart. It can be about the knowledge (intended as the capability of distinguishing) of good and evil. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 16:57, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

'''RESPONSE TO THE ABOVE''': from the [[Humani Generis]], "For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that ... Adam represents a certain number of first parents." Yet that is precisely what the modern theory of evolution pretends. Also, [[Jesus]] acknowledged and referred to the [[Great Flood]], which evolution denies.

At some point, all intelligent people are faced with a choice: question what [[liberals]] taught us in school and be open to what Christ and logic dictate, or forever be a prisoner to what liberals teach. I urge you to choose the former.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:12, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:You are not reading the encyclical correctly. That is very specifically referring to the corollary problem in polygenism of describing Adam as figuratively representing the whole evolution of mankind - in other words, denying that Adam existed in favor of claiming multiple different kinds of "men". But we know Adam existed because without him there would be no original sin. We are taught that God created the souls of men and redeemed us through Jesus Christ. God, as the omnipotent creator of the universe, also created the means by which man would appear so that he could be blessed with a soul. Please re-read at least the sections around your quote so you can see for yourself that Pope Pius is not saying what you claim he is. I don't care whether "evolution denies" the flood if I even understand what that means. I don't think it happened and I'm not alone among the majority serious students of Catholic theology. You are incorrect if you are claiming that Jesus Christ described the flood as an actual event - He's obviously referring to Noah and his family's salvation figuratively - as new "Adams" to foretell Christ's redemption of all mankind. I urge you to reexamine what you're calling logic here. It's not based on Church teaching or Catholic scholarship. Believe what you want but please don't make the insulting claim that Catholics must believe what you say or they're liberal or illogical - I don't agree with you and I've spent my entire adult life studying with some of the most "conservative" lay and ordered Catholic scholars there are. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 18:11, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
::Nate, the Roman Catholic Church does not have great confidence in evolutionism. If they did, they would put all their chips on the table and speak ex-cathedra on this issue. :) And Protestants such as myself remember the [[Galileo Galilei]] incident. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:23, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:::You apparently know zilch about Papal infallibility if you keep repeating this. It's not about "putting chips on the table" because it's not about your kind of vainglorious boasting. It's about narrowly directing the entire body of faithful on matters of critical Church doctrine and there are stepwise considerations to make. Pope Benedict wouldn't even do it. I'd be happy to help you learn something new but somehow I suspect you are still filled with hate and pride. :) [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 18:30, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Nate, Roman Catholics are still free to be young earth creationist and still hold to Roman Catholicism since no Pope has spoken ex-cathedra on evolutionism. Andy Schafly and [[Since33AD]] are both Catholic creationist. Correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, neither has been ex-communicated nor has the Roman Catholic Church threatened ex-communication! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:34, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:Indeed. As far as I gather Sam Brownback is a creationist (although I'm not sure if young earth or old earth) and he hasn't been excommunicated or anything. - [[User:Markman|Markman]] 19:21, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
::Nate, "stepwise considerations to make" is just another way of saying that the Roman Catholic Church does not have full confidence in evolutionism and have not spoken ex-cathedra on this matter. You are not fully confident in evolutionism. If you were, you would have challenged the creationist university biology student [[VivaYehshua]] by now. And [[Kenneth Miller]] has yet to respond to GregG's inquiry about the [http://creation.com/15-questions 15 questions] for evolutionists. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:24, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

The [[Humani Generis]] is clear, [[Jesus]] was clear, and the logic is clear. There is no logical objection to one Adam, or to the [[Great Flood]]. But once one denies one Adam or the Great Flood, then numerous logical problems arise in explaining what Jesus said and did. Why choose illogic over logic? Well, one reason is because liberals push anti-Jesus theories, and evolution is one of them, and perhaps some would rather be accepted by liberals than ridiculed by them. I choose logic any day and urge others to do likewise. Logic never fails.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:15, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
:You are entitled to believe falsehoods if you wish. The words in Humani Generis are printed right there in black and white. People should read them. It is improper to ascribe illogic, being "liberal" or whatever other insults you come up with to people who have justified principled disagreements with you like I have. This has nothing to do with politics. There is no anti-Jesus theory that could appeal to me. I do not care who ridicules me. I care about what's true and justifiable. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 22:33, 15 June 2013 (EDT)

::Nate, you can believe whatever you like, but the logic is with one Adam committing original sin, one Flood cleansing the world of debauchery, and the Passion to redeem the original sin. If there was more than one Adam, then original sin becomes implausible, and the Passion makes no sense. It is very difficult or impossible to make logical sense of both the modern theory of evolution and the [[Passion of Christ]]. And, as a result, most people who promote the theory of evolution reject the divinity and resurrection of Jesus.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:12, 15 June 2013 (EDT)
Nate, put all your theistic evolution chips on the table. Debate the creationist university biology student [[VivaYehshua]]. Unless of course, you think he would badly beat you in a debate on the [http://creation.com/15-questions 15 questions] for evolutionists. We both know that he would win such a debate hands down. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 02:59, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:I've said this over and over, yet you seem to be willfully misrepresenting my position. Let's put this simply. I'm nearly 50 years old. I've been studying theology a long time. I am not an expert by any means but I also don't care about evolution. I care about theology and in particular about the correct representation of Catholic theology and dogma on Conservapedia. Biblical hermeneutics as it relates to Genesis is very interesting. I would like to learn more and showing you to be an ill-informed fool is a great chance to do that. I have no interest in debating an obscure "creationist university biology student" who is a stranger to this discussion. I've repeatedly challenged ''you'' to debate me on the theological basis for ''your'' beliefs because ''you'' are the one who frequently insults me and Greg and shows a very weak grasp of Biblical hermeneutics, but you always tremble like a timorous chicken in your intellectual bunnyhole and demand people debate someone else. Are those the words you use to speak to "obscure internet posers" when you use your ESP to look into their hearts to judge them? That's just silly. There's no sensible excuse for it if you're going to participate in these discussions. Either you put your chips on the table and justify your theological position or you show yourself to be a rank coward with your vain boasting, taunts, and demands that we go talk to someone else about your nonsense. If you want to say I'm not justifying that claim, let's debate it. We are instructed to be defenders of our faith. Do you have the courage and conviction to put some skin in the game? [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 09:48, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

::Nate, I welcome any theological insights you may have. If you deny one Adam, then what was original sin? If you think Jesus was speaking only in figurative terms about the [[Great Flood]], then are other miracles in Jesus's teachings and actions also merely figurative in your view?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:02, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
:::Thanks for the questions. I do not deny one Adam. To do so would be anathema by Church law. No, I do not believe one can say that Jesus' miracles are merely figurative, as you say. I am talking about the interpretation of specific verses, not all Gospel accounts of Christ's miracles which I cannot deny as they are described and as I've experienced personally in having Christ in my own life. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 11:45, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::::Historical evidence points out to a major regional disaster from which the Flood may have been constructed; surely there was no Ark. Anyway, it's its symbolical meaning that matters. Jesus spoke to be understood from his contemporaries, making parables and allegories that were easy to understand by then-Hebrews. Think about the parable of the ten virgins: it is about a forgotten Eastern tradition which seems unusual to us today, but yet delivers a never-ending message.
::::Miracles are witnessed by the Gospels, descripted in the prose; the Great Flood is in a dialogue by Jesus.
::::What a Catholic cannot deny is the unique fault of Adam for the Original Sin, in other words that it was Adam's sin to condemn the whole human species. Not that Adam popped out ''ex nihilo''... I repeat: the question is spiritual, not biological. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 12:59, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

:::::In response to Nate, the modern theory of evolution does deny one Adam. As a result, most students who are taught and believe the theory of evolution will begin to doubt the purpose of the Passion and the divinity of Christ. Perhaps you're an unusual exception to that rule, but if you accept that there was one Adam, then you reject the modern theory of evolution.

:::::In response to Swordsman, apparently you do reject one Adam, which makes [[original sin]] and the Passion almost impossible to explain in a coherent manner.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:10, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
NateK, you wrote: "Let's put this simply. I'm nearly 50 years old. I've been studying theology a long time." I realize that you said that you are not an expert, but one of the surest signs of someone erring due to pride is them bragging on how long and hard that they have been studying something. This coupled with you saying you are a proud Irish Catholic with a family line stretching back into Catholicism and family in high places in the Roman Catholic Church is a ripe recipe for error. I had a business owner boss who commented on someone bragging about how long they had been in our industry and how good they were. My boss said something to the effect of: "Has he been in the industry 20 years or one year 20 times?" People have been known to repeat the same errors over and over.

Second, we both know that you are violently shoehorning Darwinism into the biblical text and that you are supposedly "seeing" something that the early Church fathers and Jews for thousands of years "missed". It is like your myriads of "missing links". Nate, "It is important to note that no major Hebrew scholar says that Genesis is poetry. This is because Genesis has all the grammatical marks of being a historical narrative."[http://creation.com/genesis-poetry-father-hermeutics] Your creation compromises are not at all compelling as can be seen [http://creation.com/is-genesis-poetry-figurative-a-theological-argument-polemic-and-thus-not-history HERE] and [http://creation.com/creation-compromises-questions-and-answers HERE]

So why are you and theistic evolutionists committing fundamental Bible exegesis errors. It is due to valuing scientific consensus in the secular world over the Biblical text. And the history of the scientific consensus argument when weighed against the accuracy and insight/foresight of the biblical text has a very checkered past. See: [http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/10/scientific-consensus-and-evolutionary.html Jesus vs. the scientific consensus].

Lastly, creation scientists have a history of consistently winning creation vs. evolution debates dealing with the science and winning those debates hands down. See: [[Creation scientists tend to win the creation vs. evolution debates]]. Now evolutionists are very reluctant to debate creationists on the science. Your unwillingness to debate [[VivaYehshua]] is not surprising, but it is very telling. There must be some reason why are unwilling to debate the grassroots champion of the grassroots [[Question evolution! campaign]] who is studying biology at the university level. Is it because you are afraid of badly losing? I think it is. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 13:13, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::NateK, one other thing. To my knowledge, it has always been the liberal Roman Catholics that I have locked horns with at CP and never the conservative ones. That is because the scientific consensus and evolutionism is such a "golden calf"/"sacred cow" to liberals and to [[liberal Christianity]]. And one of the ironies is that many liberal Catholics rarely read the Bible nor do the liberal Catholic hierarchy in the Western World stress Bible reading as can be seen by this statistic taken from a Roman Catholic website: "Far more disturbing was the poll result that showed that 44 percent of Catholics “rarely or never” read the Bible, while this is true of only 7 percent of Evangelicals and 13 percent of non-Evangelical Protestants. The level of religious vitality must be very low in a Christian church in which 44 percent of the membership almost never bothers to read the Bible."[http://www.crisismagazine.com/2009/why-catholics-dont-read-the-bible]

::Furthermore, the fruits of evolution loving liberal Christianity are quite sour as can be seen at: [[Liberal Christianity and marital infidelity]]. Bill Donahue of the Catholic League recognizes that many liberal Roman Catholics in the hierarchy of the church in the Western World has yielded bad fruit as can be seen [http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_and_pederasty#Roman_Catholic_Church.2C_Homosexuality_and_pederasty HERE]. Of course, this is not surprising. When you value pseudoscience and the scientific consensus over Scripture, the results are going to be bad. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 13:43, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

:You're really not getting it and I think people can readily tell that by how far away you get from the real points at hand when you launch into these irrelevant screeds. We're talking about theology and Biblical hermeneutics. It's time to step up to the plate, my good man. Instead of talking about other people's exegesis, I've repeatedly challenged ''you'' to debate your own with me. Each time you raise some nonsense that I've told you I don't care about, and continue publicly debasing yourself by showing such cowardice in crowing about an anonymous college kid on a chat site. Assigning him to fight the fights you stirred up with your pride and hatred of those who disagree with you is pathetic. I want to the debate the person who knows very little of what he talks about and vaingloriously accuses me of the worst sin. Let's do this. Then perhaps you'll think twice before you continue personally insulting people just because they disagree with you. That's just awful behavior. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:50, 16 June 2013 (EDT)
::Conservative, I think we already made very clear that obsessively proposing to debate a creationist blogger is completely out-of-place in this discussion which is about the Catholic church's theological views over evolution, so that we may improve this article. We're not biologists, we would not be suitable foes for any kind of regular debate (that are made between experts, not amateurs). So please: enough.
::Catholics actually believe that an "Adam" somewhere, sometime existed; that he was the first "man"; that he was the first human to receive a soul by God and that he, and he alone, committed the Original Sin that spread to all mankind after him. This is what we (and I) believe. This is the nucleus of the Genesis, with everything around it being allegory and poetry - from the snake to the fig leaves. Circumstances are not defined by official dogma: we do not know where and when Adam lived, if he was really named "Adam", what the Original Sin was about, what happened next... but again, the question isn't biological or scientifical. It's spiritual. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 13:57, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-16T16:59:59Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-15T20:57:52Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-10T19:48:47Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */

Talk:Roman Catholic Church

2013-06-10T19:48:17Z

Swordsman: /* Evolution */ new section

Talk:Francis Arinze

2013-03-13T23:18:30Z

Swordsman:

Only in the last couple of weeks has yet another official inquiry been instigated into sexual abuse within the Catholic Church (and others) in Australia. To me, adultery and homosexuality are not to be compared to the sexual abuse of children. Perhaps the new Papa will undo some of the damage done during the "reigns" of the last two (three? ten? .....) Popes.

:This issue is a favorite of the media, but the Church is no worse on this issue than public institutions (such as Penn State) are. And what does this have to do with Cardinal Arinze, anyway???--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:35, 11 February 2013 (EST)

::Yes, Andy. It is a favourite with the media... because the Church leaders still seem to be denying there is/was a problem. It's '''Kids''' Andy. You know? Children. The ones we are supposed to protect. "Come unto me" etc., I would have felt far happier if you had said he was going to crack down on child abuse. That's all. Perhaps not liking child abuse is a liberal thing. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 21:56, 11 February 2013 (EST)

:::It's an obvious [[double standard]] for the [[liberal media]] to repeatedly criticize the Church while rarely criticizing government institutions, which have far bigger problems.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:19, 11 February 2013 (EST)

::::Which government institution has had several of its members molest children with little to no repercussions? -- [[User:JLauttamus|JLauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|Talk]] 22:51, 11 February 2013 (EST)

::::: I would guess this happened in quite a few government institutions in almost every dictatorial, communist, socialist and facist state that has ever existed. Unfortunately this sort of thing is happening right now in [[North Korea]], which among other reasons is why the world really needs to force a regime change in North Korea. [[User:Dvergne|Dvergne]] 23:03, 11 February 2013 (EST)

::::::The key phrase being, "<nowiki>[you]</nowiki> would guess..." -- [[User:JLauttamus|JLauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|Talk]] 23:07, 11 February 2013 (EST)

:::::::It's obvious - less morality means greater problems. [[Penn State]] had worse problems than the Church. But this discussion does not even have anything to do with Arinze.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:11, 11 February 2013 (EST)

The main culprit at Penn State is also serving something like 52 consecutive life sentences, and the school was slapped with numerous sanctions. Paterno likely would have been imprisoned if not for his death. I don't know how exactly you could quantify problems with child molestation...I honestly think it's a false equivalency, Andy. I will say that the media have certainly hammered the Catholic Church, and that the constant negative publicity has taken away from many of the good things that they have done. -- [[User:JLauttamus|JLauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|Talk]] 23:21, 11 February 2013 (EST)

::Yes D. and North Korea doesn't pretend to "suffer the little children" etc., Neither does Penn State. This is the so-called Christian church we are talking about here; not some so called 'liberal' institution. Name your hates in order of hate.... 1.Adultery. 2. Homosexuality between consenting adults. 3. Child abuse. Which one did Andy not mention? Mine is 3. But I am a liberal. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 23:24, 11 February 2013 (EST)

:::Unfortunately enough, it's almost impossible for Arinze to be elected pope. Actually, he cannot even be a candidate as he's older than 80 and cardinals above that age do not partecipate to the ''conclave'' in the Sistine chapel. While technically every baptized Catholic man can become pope, the possibilities for this are totally nil. If I recall correctly, it hasn't been since the late Middle Ages that cardinals have chosen someone outside of the ''conclave'' as pope. There are also other reasons, one being that he's still too old and they want a young - well, young for the Church's meter - pope, below 65.
:::Italian ''vaticanisti'' (journalists who specialize in Vatican affairs) do not even consider him as far possibly ''papabile''. Just take your time to read some Italian newspapers and you'll see that the workable candidates are others. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 16:52, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
::::Q.E.D. --[[User:Swordsman|Swordsman]] 19:18, 13 March 2013 (EDT)

Italy

2013-03-11T21:17:59Z

Swordsman: /* Foreign Relations */

{{Country
|name =''Repubblica Italiana''
|map =Italy rel 2004.jpg
|map2 =Italy location.png
|flag =Italyflag.gif
|arms =Italy-Emblem.png
|capital =Rome
|capital-raw =
|government =Parliamentary Republic
|government-raw =
|language =Italian
|king =
|queen =
|monarch-raw =
|president =Giorgio Napolitano
|president-raw =
|chancellor =
|chancellor-raw =
|pm =Mario Monti
|pm-raw =
|area =116,340 sq mi
|pop =61,016,000
|pop-basis =2011
|gdp =
|gdp-year =$1.76 trillion (2009)
|gdp-pc =$30,300 (2009)
|currency =euro
|idd =
|tld =
}}
'''Italy''' is a country in [[Europe]], and was the center of the [[Roman Empire]] until its collapse. Italian cities led the [[Renaissance]], with world-class artists such as [[Leonardo da Vinci]], [[Donatello]], [[Michelangelo]], [[Titian]], [[Tintoretto]], [[Caravaggio]], and [[Giotto]]. Major cities today include [[Rome]], [[Milan]], [[Naples]] (Napoli), [[Turin]] (Torino), [[Palermo]], [[Genoa]] (Genova), [[Bologna]], [[Florence]] (Firenze) and [[Venice]] (Venezia).<ref> The [[Vatican City]], the governmental center of the [[Roman Catholic Church]], lies entirely within the boundaries of the capital city, Rome. The equally tiny sovereign state of [[San Marino]] is also entirely within Italy.</ref>

==Geography==
Italy, slightly larger than [[Arizona]], is a long peninsula shaped like a boot, surrounded on the west by the Tyrrhenian Sea and on the east by the Adriatic. It is bounded by [[France]], [[Switzerland]], [[Austria]], and [[Slovenia]] to the north. The [[Apennine Mountains]] form the peninsula's backbone; the Alps form its northern boundary. The largest of its many northern lakes is Garda (143 sq mi; 370 sq km); the Po, its principal river, flows from the [[Alps]] on Italy's western border and crosses the Lombard plain to the Adriatic Sea. Several islands form part of Italy; the largest are [[Sicily]] (9,926 sq mi; 25,708 sq km) and [[Sardinia]] (9,301 sq mi; 24,090 sq km).
*Area: 301,225 sq. km. (116,303 sq. mi.); about the size of Georgia and Florida combined.
*Cities: Capital--Rome (pop. 2.8 million, 3.7 million metro). Other cities--Milan (1.3 million, 3.9 metro), Naples (975,000, 3 million metro), Turin (900,000, 2.1 million metro).
*Terrain: Mostly rugged and mountainous.
*Climate: Generally mild Mediterranean; cold northern winters.

==People==
[[File:Rowers in Venice.jpg|thumb|left|Rowers in Venice.]]
Italy is largely homogeneous linguistically and religiously but is diverse culturally, economically, and politically. Italy has the fifth-highest population density in Europe--about 200 persons per square kilometer (490 per sq. mi.). Minority groups are small, the largest being the German-speaking people of Bolzano Province and the Slovenes around Trieste. There are also small communities of Albanian, Greek, Ladino, and French origin. Immigration has increased in recent years, however, while the Italian population is declining overall due to low birth rates. Although Roman Catholicism is the majority religion--85% of native-born citizens are nominally Catholic--all religious faiths are provided equal freedom before the law by the constitution.
*Population (November 2009 est.): Above 60.3 million.
*Annual growth rate (2007 est.): 0.01%.
*Ethnic groups: Primarily Italian, but there are small groups of German-, French-, Slovene-, and Albanian-Italians.
*Religion: Roman Catholic (majority).
*Language: Italian (official).
*Education: Years compulsory--10. Literacy--98%.
*Health: Infant mortality rate--5.72/1,000 live births. Life expectancy--77.01 years for men; 83.07 years for women.
*Work force (24.63 million, 2006 est.): Services--63%; industry and commerce--32%; agriculture--5%. Unemployment rate is 7

===Religion===
[[File:Milan Cathedral.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Cathedral of Milan (Duomo).]]
About 87% of native-born citizens are nominally Catholic, but only 20% regularly participate in worship services.<ref> See [http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2008/108453.htm U.S. State Department "International Religious Freedom Report 2008"]</ref> Other significant Christian communities include Orthodox, Jehovah's Witnesses, Assembly of God, the Confederation of Methodist and Waldensian Churches, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), and other small Protestant groups. Non-Catholic Christian groups, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Baha'is, and Buddhists constitute less than 5% of the population and, with the exception of Jews, are mainly foreign-born.

Immigration, both legal and illegal, continues to add large numbers of non-Christian residents, mainly Muslims, from North Africa, South Asia, Albania, and the Middle East. The Ministry of Interior reports that there are 258 places of Islamic worship (mainly "garage" mosques) and 628 Islamic associations concentrated in Lombardy, Veneto, Lazio, Emilia Romagna, and Tuscany. The Jewish community is estimated at 30,000 and maintains synagogues in 21 cities. The most recent data indicate that approximately 14% of the population identifies itself as either atheist or agnostic. (Numbers do not add up to 100% because of overlapping categories.)

===Italy's Cultural Contributions===
[[File:Caravaggio.JPG|thumb|[[Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio]]]]
Europe's Renaissance period began in Italy during the 14th and 15th centuries. Literary achievements, such as the poetry of [[Dante Alighieri|Dante]], [[Francesco Petrarch|Petrarch]], [[Torquato Tasso|Tasso]], and [[Ludovico Ariosto|Ariosto]] and the prose of [[Giovanni Boccaccio|Boccaccio]], [[Niccolò Machiavelli|Machiavelli]] and [[Alessandro Manzoni|Manzoni]], exerted a tremendous and lasting influence on the subsequent development of Western civilization, as did the painting, sculpture, and architecture contributed by giants such as [[Leonardo da Vinci]], [[Raphael]], [[Sandro Botticelli]], [[Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio|Caravaggio]], and [[Michelangelo|Michelangelo Buonarroti]].

The musical influence of Italian composers Monteverdi, Palestrina, and Vivaldi proved epochal; in the 19th century, Italian romantic opera flourished under composers Gioacchino Rossini, Giuseppe Verdi, and Giacomo Puccini. Contemporary Italian artists, writers, filmmakers, architects, composers, and designers contribute significantly to Western culture.

==History==
[[Image:Tiber.jpg|thumb|300px|The River Tiber.]]
The migrations of Indo-European peoples into Italy probably began about 2000 B.C. and continued down to 1000 B.C. From about the 9th century B.C. until it was overthrown by the [[Romans]] in the 3rd century B.C., the Etruscan civilization dominated the area. By 264 B.C. all Italy south of Cisalpine Gaul was under the leadership of Rome. For the next seven centuries, until the barbarian invasions destroyed the western Roman Empire in the 4th and 5th centuries A.D., the history of Italy is largely the history of Rome.

From 800 on, the Holy Roman Emperors, Roman Catholic popes, Normans, and Saracens all vied for control over various segments of the Italian peninsula. Numerous city-states, such as [[Venice]] and [[Genoa]], whose political and commercial rivalries were intense, and many small principalities flourished in the late [[Middle Ages]]. Although Italy remained politically fragmented for centuries, it became the cultural center of the Western world from the 13th to the 16th century.

In 1713, after the War of the Spanish Succession, [[Milan]], [[Naples]], and [[Sardinia]] were handed over to the Hapsburgs of Austria, which lost some of its Italian territories in 1735. After 1800, Italy was unified by Napoléon, who crowned himself king of Italy in 1805; but with the Congress of Vienna in 1815, Austria once again became the dominant power in a disunited Italy. Austrian armies crushed Italian uprisings in 1820–1821 and 1831.

=== Italian unification ===
In the 1830s, [[Giuseppe Mazzini]], a brilliant liberal nationalist, organized the Risorgimento (Resurrection), which laid the foundation for Italian unity. Disappointed Italian patriots looked to the House of Savoy for leadership. Count Camille di Cavour (1810–1861), prime minister of Sardinia in 1852 and the architect of a united Italy, joined England and France in the Crimean War (1853–1856), and in 1859 helped France in a war against Austria, thereby obtaining Lombardy. By plebiscite in 1860, Modena, Parma, Tuscany, and the Romagna voted to join Sardinia. In 1860, [[Giuseppe Garibaldi]] conquered Sicily and Naples and turned them over to Sardinia. Victor Emmanuel II, king of Sardinia, was proclaimed king of Italy in 1861. The annexation of Venetia in 1866 and of papal Rome in 1870 marked the complete unification of peninsular Italy into one nation under a constitutional monarchy.

=== Fascism and World Wars ===
Italy declared its neutrality upon the outbreak of [[World War I]] on the grounds that Germany had embarked upon an offensive war. In 1915, Italy entered the war on the side of the Allies but obtained less territory than it expected in the postwar settlement. [[Benito Mussolini]], “Il Duce”. a former Socialist, organized discontented Italians in 1919 into the [[Fascism|Fascist Party]] to “rescue Italy from [[Bolshevik|Bolshevism]].” He led his Black Shirts in a march on Rome and, on Oct. 28, 1922, became prime minister. He transformed Italy into a dictatorship, embarking on an expansionist foreign policy with the invasion and annexation of Ethiopia in 1935 and allying himself with Adolf Hitler in the Rome-Berlin Axis in 1936. When the Allies invaded Italy in 1943, Mussolini's dictatorship collapsed; he was executed by partisans on April 28, 1945, at Dongo on Lake Como. Following the armistice with the Allies (Sept. 3, 1943), Italy joined the war against Germany as a cobelligerent.

=== Italian Republic ===
A June 1946 plebiscite rejected monarchy and a republic was proclaimed. The peace treaty of Sept. 15, 1947, required Italian renunciation of all claims in Ethiopia and Greece and the cession of the Dodecanese islands to Greece and of five small Alpine areas to France. The Trieste area west of the new Yugoslav territory was made a free territory (until 1954, when the city and a 90-square-mile zone were transferred to Italy and the rest to Yugoslavia).

Italy became an integral member of [[NATO]] and the European Economic Community (later the [[EU]]) as it successfully rebuilt its postwar economy.

Until recently, there had been frequent government turnovers since 1945. The dominance of the Christian Democratic (DC) party during much of the postwar period lent continuity and comparative stability to Italy's political situation. A prolonged outbreak of terrorist activities by the left-wing Red Brigades threatened domestic stability in the 1970s, but by the early 1980s the terrorist groups had been suppressed. “Revolving door” governments, political instability, scandal, and corruption characterized Italian politics in the 1980s and 1990s.

=== Silvio Berlusconi and the "Second Republic" ===
From [[1992]] to 1997, Italy faced significant challenges as voters--disenchanted with past political paralysis, massive government debt, extensive corruption, and organized crime's considerable influence--demanded political, economic, and ethical reforms. Scandal investigations touched thousands of politicians, administrators, and businessmen. In [[1993]] referendums, voters approved substantial changes, including moving from a proportional to a largely majoritarian electoral system and the abolishment of some ministries.

Major political parties, beset by scandal and loss of voter confidence, underwent far-reaching changes. The end of [[Soviet Union|Soviet]] [[Communism]] caused a crisis on the Left, with a complex reshuffling of voters. Party changes were sweeping. The Christian Democratic Party dissolved; the Italian People's Party and the Christian Democratic Center emerged. Other major parties, such as the [[Socialist]]s, saw support plummet. For this reason this period is called "Second Republic".

New political forces and new alignments of power emerged in March [[1994]] national elections. A new populist and free-market oriented movement, Forza Italia, gained wide support among moderate voters. The National Alliance broke from the neofascist Italian Social Movement. The election saw a major turnover in the new parliament, with 452 out of 630 deputies and 213 out of 315 senators elected for the first time. The 1994 elections also swept media magnate [[Silvio Berlusconi]], and his Freedom Pole coalition, into office as Prime Minister. A trend toward two large coalitions--one on the center-left and the other on the center-right--emerged from the April 1995 regional elections.

Berlusconi, however, was forced to step down in January [[1995]] when one member of his coalition withdrew support. The Berlusconi government was succeeded by a technical government headed by Prime Minister Lamberto Dini, which fell in early [[1996]]. For the 1996 national elections, the center-left parties created the Olive Tree coalition while the center right united again under the Freedom Pole. The new elections in 1996 brought a center-left coalition to government for the first time after World War II.

A series of center-left coalitions dominated Italy's political landscape between 1996 and 2001. In April 1996, national elections led to the victory of a center-left coalition (the Olive Tree) under the leadership of Romano Prodi. Prodi's government became the second-longest to stay in power before he narrowly lost a vote of confidence (by three votes) in October 1998. A new government was formed by Democratic Party of the Left leader and former-communist Massimo D'Alema.

Italy adopted the [[euro]] as its currency in January [[1999]]. Treasury Secretary Carlo Ciampi, who is credited with the economic reforms that permitted Italy to enter the European Monetary Union, was elected president in May 1999. Italy joined its [[NATO]] partners in the [[Kosovo]] crisis. Aviano Air Base in northern Italy was a crucial base for launching air strikes into Kosovo and [[Yugoslavia]].

In April [[2000]], following a poor showing by his coalition in regional elections, D'Alema resigned. The succeeding center-left government, including most of the same parties, was headed by Giuliano Amato, who previously served as Prime Minister in 1992-93.

National elections, held on May 13, [[2001]], returned Berlusconi to power at the head of the five-party center-right Freedom House coalition, comprising the prime minister's own party, Forza Italia, the National Alliance, the Northern League, the Christian Democratic Center, and the United Christian Democrats. Berlusconi pledged to reduce unemployment, cut taxes, revamp the educational system, and reform the bureaucracy. His critics were alarmed by the apparent conflict of interest of a prime minister who also owned 90% of Italy's media. He was accused of Mafia connections and was under indictment for tax fraud and bribery. Found guilty in three out of four of his trials, he was acquitted in all of them on appeal. Several other cases are pending.

In Nov. [[2002]], Giulio Andreotti, who served as Italy's prime minister numerous times between 1972 and 1992, was sentenced to 24 years for ordering the [[Mafia]] to murder a journalist in 1979. At 84, however, he was deemed too old for prison.

At the end of [[2003]], Italian food giant [[Parmalat]] was accused of a massive accounting fraud scheme—$5 billion the company claimed was in fact nonexistent.

In April [[2005]], regional elections had disastrous results for Berlusconi's center-right coalition. The dismal state of the economy was blamed for the poor showing. Prime Minister Berlusconi resigned and formed a new government. The 60th government since the liberation of Italy was formed on April 23, 2005, with a new program emphasizing economic concerns. The previous Berlusconi government was the longest serving in Italy’s post-war history. In the same year parliament passed a new electoral law based on full proportional assignment of seats.

In national elections held April 9-10, [[2006]], the center-left Union coalition led by Romano Prodi, a successor to the Olive Tree, won 49.8% of the vote and Berlusconi's House of Liberties coalition won 49.7%—a mere 25,000 vote difference. The Union coalition includes the Democratic Party of the Left, the Daisy Party, UDEUR (Union of Democrats for Europe), Rose in the Fist (made up by Italian Social Democrats and Italian Radical Party), Communist Renewal, the Italian Communist Party, and the Greens. Berlusconi refused to concede and called for a recount. He eventually relented, and Prodi was given the go-ahead by the newly installed president Giorgio Napolitano to form a government. Prodi served as prime minister once before (1996–98) and also as president of the European Union. Prodi's government proved fragile almost immediately. Indeed, he submitted his resignation just nine months into his term after a key foreign-policy vote about the deployment of troops to Afghanistan and an expansion of a U. S. military base failed in the Senate. Days later, the Senate, facing the prospect of Silvio Berlusconi returning to power, narrowly passed a vote of confidence in Prodi's government. Prodi remained in office, surely to face similar obstacles in the near future.

In April 2006, Italy caught and arrested Bernardo Provenzano, the alleged boss of the Sicilian Mafia, who had eluded authorities for 42 years.

In October [[2007]], the Democrats of the Left and the Daisy parties officially merged to form the '''Democratic Party'''.

[[File:Logo-pdl-berlusconi.jpg|left|200px]]
The Prodi government collapsed on January 24, [[2008]], when it lost a vote of confidence in the Senate and the Prime Minster submitted his resignation to the President. The Prodi government fell when small coalition partner UDEUR withdrew support. In February, the President dissolved parliament and Silvio Berlusconi returned to power after defeating former Rome Mayor Walter Veltroni by a comfortable margin in elections on April 13-14, 2008. Berlusconi's winning coalition was composed of the '''People of Liberty''' (a union of Forza Italia and Gianfranco Fini's National Alliance), the Northern League, and the Movement for Autonomy. The election greatly simplified parliament, dramatically reducing the numbers of parties, and for the first time since World War II, leaving communist parties out of parliament. People of Liberty (37.4%) won the largest share of the vote and took power in coalition with a strengthened Northern League (8.3%) and the tiny Movement for Autonomy (1.1%). The Democratic Party scored 33.2% and ran in alliance with Italy of Values (4.4%), while the Union of the Center (5.6%) ran alone.

Berlusconi was sworn in as Prime Minister on May 8. Veltroni resigned as leader of the opposition in February [[2009]], and his deputy, Dario Franceschini, was elected new Democratic Party leader. In March 2009, Forza Italia and National Alliance changed the People of Liberty identification from an alliance to a party. The new mass center-right party is Italy's largest party and one of the largest in Europe. Party leaders define the party as post-ideological, charismatic, and pragmatic. It is led by Berlusconi.

In [[2010]], Gianfranco Fini's conservative party Future and Freedom emerged from a split from Berlusconi's People of Liberty party.

==Government==
Italy has been a democratic republic since June 2, 1946, when the monarchy was abolished by popular referendum. The constitution was promulgated on January 1, 1948.

The Italian state is centralized. The prefect of each of the provinces is appointed by and answerable to the central government. In addition to the provinces, the constitution provides for 20 regions with limited governing powers. Five regions--Sardinia, Sicily, Trentino-Alto Adige, Valle d'Aosta, and Friuli-Venezia Giulia--function with special autonomy statutes. The other 15 regions were established in 1970 and vote for regional "councils." The establishment of regional governments throughout Italy has brought some decentralization to the national governmental machinery, and recent governments have devolved further powers to the regions. Many regional governments, particularly in the north of Italy, are seeking additional powers.

The 1948 constitution established a perfectly bicameral parliament (Chamber of Deputies and Senate), a separate judiciary, and an executive branch composed of a Council of Ministers (cabinet), headed by the president of the council (prime minister). The president of the republic is elected for seven years by the parliament sitting jointly with a small number of regional delegates. The president nominates the prime minister, who chooses the other ministers. The Council of Ministers--in practice composed mostly of members of parliament--must retain the confidence of both houses.

The houses of parliament are popularly and directly elected by a proportional representation system. Under 2005 legislation, the Chamber of Deputies has 630 members (12 of which are elected by Italians abroad). In addition to 315 elected members (six of which are elected by Italians abroad), the Senate includes former presidents and several other persons appointed for life according to special constitutional provisions. Both houses are elected for a maximum of five years, but either may be dissolved before the expiration of its normal term. Legislative bills may originate in either house and must be passed by a majority in both.

The Italian judicial system is based on Roman law modified by the Napoleonic code and subsequent statutes. There is only partial judicial review of legislation in the American sense. A constitutional court, which passes on the constitutionality of laws, is a post-World War II innovation. Its powers, volume, and frequency of decisions are not as extensive as those of the U.S. Supreme Court.

===Principal Government Officials===
*President--Giorgio Napolitano
*Prime Minister--Mario Monti
*Foreign Minister--Giulio Terzi di Sant'Agata
*Minister of Defense--Admiral Giampaolo di Paola
*Minister of Finance--Vittorio Umberto Grilli
*Minister of Justice--Paola Severino
*Minister of the Interior--Anna Maria Cancellieri

===Foreign Relations===
Italy was a founding member of the European Community--now the [[European Union]] (EU). Italy was admitted to the [[United Nations]] in 1955 and is a member and strong supporter of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization ([[NATO]]), the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade/World Trade Organization (GATT/WTO), the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), and the Council of Europe. It chaired the CSCE (the forerunner of the OSCE) in 1994, the EU from July to December 1990, January to June 1996, and July to December 2003, and the G-8 in 2001 and in 2009. Italy served a two-year term on the UN Security Council in 2007-2008.

Italy firmly supports the United Nations and its international security activities. Italy leads the UN mission in Lebanon (UNIFIL) and has actively participated in and deployed troops in support of UN peacekeeping missions in Somalia, Mozambique, and Timor-Leste. It provides critical support for NATO and EU operations in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Georgia, and Chad.

Italy, under NATO's ISAF, maintains a Provincial Reconstruction Team in the western [[Afghanistan]] province of Herat, commands RC-West, and maintains a Carabinieri police training center. Italy supports reconstruction and development assistance to the Iraqi people through humanitarian workers and other officials, particularly in Dhi Qar Province, and is a leading contributor to the NATO Training Mission-Iraq, with approximately 100 military personnel and Carabinieri police trainers. Currently almost 9,000 Italian troops are deployed, including 2,100 in Kosovo, 2,350 in Lebanon as part of UNIFIL, and over 2,600 in Afghanistan. It will send another 1000 troops for the surge in [[Afghanistan War|Afghanistan]] in 2010.

=== Armed forces ===
The Italian Constitution explicitly repudiates war as a mean to solve international conflicts<ref>http://www.governo.it/Governo/Costituzione/principi.html</ref> but still affirms that the defence of the fatherland is a citizen's "sacred duty" and that, when required by the law, military service is mandatory. <ref>http://www.governo.it/Governo/Costituzione/1_titolo4.html</ref> Therefore, the Italian Republic maintains four armed forces:
* The Italian Army, ''Esercito Italiano'', is the ground branch and numbers above 108,000 troops. Its most famous equipment include the C-1 ''Ariete'' main battle tank, the ''Centauro'' wheeled armored car, the AR-70/90 assault rifle and the Beretta M9 pistol, which is also used by the United States armed forces. Among the corps which make up the Army, it's worthy to remember: the ''Alpini'' (mountain troops), the ''Bersaglieri'' (light infantry) and the ''Lagunari'' (marines).
* The Italian Navy, ''Marina Militare'', is the sea branch and counts 31,000 sailors and 70 warships, among them: the ''Cavour'' and ''Garibaldi'' aircraft carriers, the ''Horizon'' destroyers and the ''Amerigo Vespucci'' school sailship for naval cadets. The Com.Sub.In. (Underwater Incursion Command) are the Italian Navy SEALs, extremely well trained and with a long history of daring victories.
* The Italian Air Force, ''Aeronautica Militare'', is the air branch and musters 42,960 airmen and officers and 665 planes and helicopters. Its acrobatic patrol is highly famed and is known as the ''Tricolor Arrows'.
* The Carabinieri Corps, ''Arma dei Carabinieri'' is the national gendarmery force, 120,000-strong. Formerly part of the Army, the Carabinieri act both as a civilian police force and a military one. They mantain some combat-ready light infantry units, the "Hunters" regiments.

The Italian armed forces relied upon conscription for almost a hundred and fifty years, but mandatory service was abolished in 2005, moving them to a professionist, volunteer model.

==Economy==
[[File:Banca Commerciale Italiana Milan.JPG|thumb|300px|Palace of the "Banca Commerciale Italiana", Milan.]]
The Italian economy has changed dramatically since the end of World War II. From an agricultural-based economy, it has developed into an industrial state ranked as the world's sixth-largest market economy. Italy belongs to the Group of Eight (G-8) industrialized nations; it is a member of the European Union and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

Italy has few natural resources. With much land unsuited for farming, Italy is a net food importer. There are no substantial deposits of iron, coal, or oil. Proven natural gas reserves, mainly in the Po Valley and offshore Adriatic, constitute the country's most important mineral resource. Most raw materials needed for manufacturing and more than 80% of the country's energy sources are imported. Italy's economic strength is in the processing and the manufacturing of goods, primarily in small and medium-sized family-owned firms. Its major industries are precision machinery, motor vehicles, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, electric goods, and fashion and clothing.

Italy's economic growth averaged only 0.66% for the five years ending in 2005; 2006 GDP growth reached 1.9%, largely due to export growth to the Euro zone area.

Italy continues to grapple with budget deficits and high public debt--2.6% and 105.9% of GDP for 2008, respectively. Italy joined the European Monetary Union in 1998 by signing the Stability and Growth Pact, and as a condition of this Euro zone membership, Italy must keep its budget deficit beneath a 3% ceiling. The Italian Government has found it difficult to bring the budget deficit down to a level that would allow a rapid decrease of that debt. The worsening of the economic situation is expected to jeopardize this effort. The deficit is expected to grow well above the 3% ceiling in 2009 and 2010.

Italy's economic growth averaged only 0.8% in the period 2001-2008; 2008 GDP decreased 1.0%, largely due to the global economic crisis and its impact on exports and domestic demand. GDP is expected to contract further, with a huge decrease in 2009 (ranging from 2% to 3%) as the Euro zone and world economies slow.

Italy's closest trade ties are with the other countries of the European Union, with whom it conducts about 60.1% of its total trade (2007 data). Its largest EU trade partners are Germany (12.9%), France (11.4%), and the United Kingdom (5.8%). Italy continues to grapple with the effects of globalization, where China has undersold the Italian lower-end industrial product sector.

The Italian economy is also affected by a large underground economy--worth some 27% of its GDP. This production is not subject, of course, to taxation and thus remains a source of lost revenue to the local and central government.

*GDP (purchasing power parity, 2007 est.): $1.8 trillion.
*GDP per capita (purchasing power parity, 2007 est.): $31,000.
*GDP growth: 1.7% (2007); 1.9% (2006); 0.1% (2005); 0.9% (2003 est.); 0.4% (2002); 1.8% (2001).
*Natural resources: Fish and natural gas.
*Agriculture: Products--wheat, rice, grapes, olives, citrus fruits, potatoes, sugar beets, soybeans beef, dairy products.
*Industry: Types--tourism, machinery, iron and steel, chemicals, food processing, textiles, motor vehicles, clothing, footwear, ceramics.
*Trade: Exports (2007 est.)--$474.8 billion f.o.b.: mechanical products, textiles and apparel, transportation equipment, metal products, chemical products, food and agricultural products. Partners (2006)--Germany 13.2%, France 12.3%, U.S. 7.5%, Spain 7.5%, U.K. 6.6%. Imports (2007 est.)--$483.6 billion f.o.b.: machinery and transport equipment, foodstuffs, ferrous and nonferrous metals, wool, cotton, energy products. Partners (2006)--Germany 17.3%, France 10.0%, Netherlands 5.7%, China 5.2%, Belgium 4.5%, Spain 4.3%.

====U.S.-Italy Economic Relations====
The United States and Italy cooperate closely on major economic issues, including within the G-8. With a large population and a high per capita income, Italy was the United States' twelfth-largest trading partner in 2008, with total bilateral trade of $51.6 billion comprised of exports to Italy totaling $15.5 billion and imports worth $36.1 billion. The U.S.'s $20.7 billion deficit with Italy in 2008 was slightly below the $20.9 billion deficit registered in 2007. Machinery and aircraft are becoming important U.S. exports. U.S. foreign direct investment in Italy at the end of 2007 exceeded $28.4 billion.

====Labor====
Unemployment is a regional issue in Italy--low in the north, high in the south. The overall national rate is at its lowest level since 1992. Chronic problems of inadequate infrastructure, corruption, and organized crime act as disincentives to investment and job creation in the south. A significant underground economy absorbs substantial numbers of people, but they work for low wages and without standard social benefits and protections. Women and youth have significantly higher rates of unemployment than do men.

Unions claim to represent 40% of the work force. Most Italian unions are grouped in four major confederations: the General Italian Confederation of Labor (CGIL), the Italian Confederation of Workers' Unions (CISL), the Italian Union of Labor (UIL), and the General Union of Labor (UGL), which together claim 35% of the work force. These confederations formerly were associated with important political parties or currents, but they have evolved into fully autonomous, professional bodies. The CGIL, CISL, and UIL are affiliated with the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions (ICFTU) and customarily coordinate their positions before confronting management or lobbying the government. The confederations have had an important consultative role on national social and economic issues.

====Agriculture====
Italy's agriculture is typical of the division between the agricultures of the northern and southern countries of the European Union. The northern part of Italy produces primarily grains, sugarbeets, soybeans, meat, and dairy products, while the south specializes in fruits, vegetables, olive oil, wine, and durum wheat. Even though much of its mountainous terrain is unsuitable for farming, Italy has a large work force (1.4 million) employed in farming. Most farms are small, with the average size being only seven hectares.

== See also ==
*[[Benito Mussolini]]
*[[Giuseppe Garibaldi]]
*[[Galileo Galilei]]
*[[Marco Polo]]
*[[The Renaissance]]
*[[Painting Schools]]

== External links ==
*[http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107658.html]

==References==
<references/>

{{Copyright Details (US Government)}}

{{European Union}}

[[Category:European History]]
[[Category:European Countries]]
[[Category:NATO members]]
[[Category:Christian-Majority Countries]]

Italy

2013-03-11T20:59:31Z

Swordsman: /* Principal Government Officials */

{{Country
|name =''Repubblica Italiana''
|map =Italy rel 2004.jpg
|map2 =Italy location.png
|flag =Italyflag.gif
|arms =Italy-Emblem.png
|capital =Rome
|capital-raw =
|government =Parliamentary Republic
|government-raw =
|language =Italian
|king =
|queen =
|monarch-raw =
|president =Giorgio Napolitano
|president-raw =
|chancellor =
|chancellor-raw =
|pm =Mario Monti
|pm-raw =
|area =116,340 sq mi
|pop =61,016,000
|pop-basis =2011
|gdp =
|gdp-year =$1.76 trillion (2009)
|gdp-pc =$30,300 (2009)
|currency =euro
|idd =
|tld =
}}
'''Italy''' is a country in [[Europe]], and was the center of the [[Roman Empire]] until its collapse. Italian cities led the [[Renaissance]], with world-class artists such as [[Leonardo da Vinci]], [[Donatello]], [[Michelangelo]], [[Titian]], [[Tintoretto]], [[Caravaggio]], and [[Giotto]]. Major cities today include [[Rome]], [[Milan]], [[Naples]] (Napoli), [[Turin]] (Torino), [[Palermo]], [[Genoa]] (Genova), [[Bologna]], [[Florence]] (Firenze) and [[Venice]] (Venezia).<ref> The [[Vatican City]], the governmental center of the [[Roman Catholic Church]], lies entirely within the boundaries of the capital city, Rome. The equally tiny sovereign state of [[San Marino]] is also entirely within Italy.</ref>

==Geography==
Italy, slightly larger than [[Arizona]], is a long peninsula shaped like a boot, surrounded on the west by the Tyrrhenian Sea and on the east by the Adriatic. It is bounded by [[France]], [[Switzerland]], [[Austria]], and [[Slovenia]] to the north. The [[Apennine Mountains]] form the peninsula's backbone; the Alps form its northern boundary. The largest of its many northern lakes is Garda (143 sq mi; 370 sq km); the Po, its principal river, flows from the [[Alps]] on Italy's western border and crosses the Lombard plain to the Adriatic Sea. Several islands form part of Italy; the largest are [[Sicily]] (9,926 sq mi; 25,708 sq km) and [[Sardinia]] (9,301 sq mi; 24,090 sq km).
*Area: 301,225 sq. km. (116,303 sq. mi.); about the size of Georgia and Florida combined.
*Cities: Capital--Rome (pop. 2.8 million, 3.7 million metro). Other cities--Milan (1.3 million, 3.9 metro), Naples (975,000, 3 million metro), Turin (900,000, 2.1 million metro).
*Terrain: Mostly rugged and mountainous.
*Climate: Generally mild Mediterranean; cold northern winters.

==People==
[[File:Rowers in Venice.jpg|thumb|left|Rowers in Venice.]]
Italy is largely homogeneous linguistically and religiously but is diverse culturally, economically, and politically. Italy has the fifth-highest population density in Europe--about 200 persons per square kilometer (490 per sq. mi.). Minority groups are small, the largest being the German-speaking people of Bolzano Province and the Slovenes around Trieste. There are also small communities of Albanian, Greek, Ladino, and French origin. Immigration has increased in recent years, however, while the Italian population is declining overall due to low birth rates. Although Roman Catholicism is the majority religion--85% of native-born citizens are nominally Catholic--all religious faiths are provided equal freedom before the law by the constitution.
*Population (November 2009 est.): Above 60.3 million.
*Annual growth rate (2007 est.): 0.01%.
*Ethnic groups: Primarily Italian, but there are small groups of German-, French-, Slovene-, and Albanian-Italians.
*Religion: Roman Catholic (majority).
*Language: Italian (official).
*Education: Years compulsory--10. Literacy--98%.
*Health: Infant mortality rate--5.72/1,000 live births. Life expectancy--77.01 years for men; 83.07 years for women.
*Work force (24.63 million, 2006 est.): Services--63%; industry and commerce--32%; agriculture--5%. Unemployment rate is 7

===Religion===
[[File:Milan Cathedral.jpg|thumb|left|300px|Cathedral of Milan (Duomo).]]
About 87% of native-born citizens are nominally Catholic, but only 20% regularly participate in worship services.<ref> See [http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2008/108453.htm U.S. State Department "International Religious Freedom Report 2008"]</ref> Other significant Christian communities include Orthodox, Jehovah's Witnesses, Assembly of God, the Confederation of Methodist and Waldensian Churches, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons), and other small Protestant groups. Non-Catholic Christian groups, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Baha'is, and Buddhists constitute less than 5% of the population and, with the exception of Jews, are mainly foreign-born.

Immigration, both legal and illegal, continues to add large numbers of non-Christian residents, mainly Muslims, from North Africa, South Asia, Albania, and the Middle East. The Ministry of Interior reports that there are 258 places of Islamic worship (mainly "garage" mosques) and 628 Islamic associations concentrated in Lombardy, Veneto, Lazio, Emilia Romagna, and Tuscany. The Jewish community is estimated at 30,000 and maintains synagogues in 21 cities. The most recent data indicate that approximately 14% of the population identifies itself as either atheist or agnostic. (Numbers do not add up to 100% because of overlapping categories.)

===Italy's Cultural Contributions===
[[File:Caravaggio.JPG|thumb|[[Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio]]]]
Europe's Renaissance period began in Italy during the 14th and 15th centuries. Literary achievements, such as the poetry of [[Dante Alighieri|Dante]], [[Francesco Petrarch|Petrarch]], [[Torquato Tasso|Tasso]], and [[Ludovico Ariosto|Ariosto]] and the prose of [[Giovanni Boccaccio|Boccaccio]], [[Niccolò Machiavelli|Machiavelli]] and [[Alessandro Manzoni|Manzoni]], exerted a tremendous and lasting influence on the subsequent development of Western civilization, as did the painting, sculpture, and architecture contributed by giants such as [[Leonardo da Vinci]], [[Raphael]], [[Sandro Botticelli]], [[Michelangelo Merisi da Caravaggio|Caravaggio]], and [[Michelangelo|Michelangelo Buonarroti]].

The musical influence of Italian composers Monteverdi, Palestrina, and Vivaldi proved epochal; in the 19th century, Italian romantic opera flourished under composers Gioacchino Rossini, Giuseppe Verdi, and Giacomo Puccini. Contemporary Italian artists, writers, filmmakers, architects, composers, and designers contribute significantly to Western culture.

==History==
[[Image:Tiber.jpg|thumb|300px|The River Tiber.]]
The migrations of Indo-European peoples into Italy probably began about 2000 B.C. and continued down to 1000 B.C. From about the 9th century B.C. until it was overthrown by the [[Romans]] in the 3rd century B.C., the Etruscan civilization dominated the area. By 264 B.C. all Italy south of Cisalpine Gaul was under the leadership of Rome. For the next seven centuries, until the barbarian invasions destroyed the western Roman Empire in the 4th and 5th centuries A.D., the history of Italy is largely the history of Rome.

From 800 on, the Holy Roman Emperors, Roman Catholic popes, Normans, and Saracens all vied for control over various segments of the Italian peninsula. Numerous city-states, such as [[Venice]] and [[Genoa]], whose political and commercial rivalries were intense, and many small principalities flourished in the late [[Middle Ages]]. Although Italy remained politically fragmented for centuries, it became the cultural center of the Western world from the 13th to the 16th century.

In 1713, after the War of the Spanish Succession, [[Milan]], [[Naples]], and [[Sardinia]] were handed over to the Hapsburgs of Austria, which lost some of its Italian territories in 1735. After 1800, Italy was unified by Napoléon, who crowned himself king of Italy in 1805; but with the Congress of Vienna in 1815, Austria once again became the dominant power in a disunited Italy. Austrian armies crushed Italian uprisings in 1820–1821 and 1831.

=== Italian unification ===
In the 1830s, [[Giuseppe Mazzini]], a brilliant liberal nationalist, organized the Risorgimento (Resurrection), which laid the foundation for Italian unity. Disappointed Italian patriots looked to the House of Savoy for leadership. Count Camille di Cavour (1810–1861), prime minister of Sardinia in 1852 and the architect of a united Italy, joined England and France in the Crimean War (1853–1856), and in 1859 helped France in a war against Austria, thereby obtaining Lombardy. By plebiscite in 1860, Modena, Parma, Tuscany, and the Romagna voted to join Sardinia. In 1860, [[Giuseppe Garibaldi]] conquered Sicily and Naples and turned them over to Sardinia. Victor Emmanuel II, king of Sardinia, was proclaimed king of Italy in 1861. The annexation of Venetia in 1866 and of papal Rome in 1870 marked the complete unification of peninsular Italy into one nation under a constitutional monarchy.

=== Fascism and World Wars ===
Italy declared its neutrality upon the outbreak of [[World War I]] on the grounds that Germany had embarked upon an offensive war. In 1915, Italy entered the war on the side of the Allies but obtained less territory than it expected in the postwar settlement. [[Benito Mussolini]], “Il Duce”. a former Socialist, organized discontented Italians in 1919 into the [[Fascism|Fascist Party]] to “rescue Italy from [[Bolshevik|Bolshevism]].” He led his Black Shirts in a march on Rome and, on Oct. 28, 1922, became prime minister. He transformed Italy into a dictatorship, embarking on an expansionist foreign policy with the invasion and annexation of Ethiopia in 1935 and allying himself with Adolf Hitler in the Rome-Berlin Axis in 1936. When the Allies invaded Italy in 1943, Mussolini's dictatorship collapsed; he was executed by partisans on April 28, 1945, at Dongo on Lake Como. Following the armistice with the Allies (Sept. 3, 1943), Italy joined the war against Germany as a cobelligerent.

=== Italian Republic ===
A June 1946 plebiscite rejected monarchy and a republic was proclaimed. The peace treaty of Sept. 15, 1947, required Italian renunciation of all claims in Ethiopia and Greece and the cession of the Dodecanese islands to Greece and of five small Alpine areas to France. The Trieste area west of the new Yugoslav territory was made a free territory (until 1954, when the city and a 90-square-mile zone were transferred to Italy and the rest to Yugoslavia).

Italy became an integral member of [[NATO]] and the European Economic Community (later the [[EU]]) as it successfully rebuilt its postwar economy.

Until recently, there had been frequent government turnovers since 1945. The dominance of the Christian Democratic (DC) party during much of the postwar period lent continuity and comparative stability to Italy's political situation. A prolonged outbreak of terrorist activities by the left-wing Red Brigades threatened domestic stability in the 1970s, but by the early 1980s the terrorist groups had been suppressed. “Revolving door” governments, political instability, scandal, and corruption characterized Italian politics in the 1980s and 1990s.

=== Silvio Berlusconi and the "Second Republic" ===
From [[1992]] to 1997, Italy faced significant challenges as voters--disenchanted with past political paralysis, massive government debt, extensive corruption, and organized crime's considerable influence--demanded political, economic, and ethical reforms. Scandal investigations touched thousands of politicians, administrators, and businessmen. In [[1993]] referendums, voters approved substantial changes, including moving from a proportional to a largely majoritarian electoral system and the abolishment of some ministries.

Major political parties, beset by scandal and loss of voter confidence, underwent far-reaching changes. The end of [[Soviet Union|Soviet]] [[Communism]] caused a crisis on the Left, with a complex reshuffling of voters. Party changes were sweeping. The Christian Democratic Party dissolved; the Italian People's Party and the Christian Democratic Center emerged. Other major parties, such as the [[Socialist]]s, saw support plummet. For this reason this period is called "Second Republic".

New political forces and new alignments of power emerged in March [[1994]] national elections. A new populist and free-market oriented movement, Forza Italia, gained wide support among moderate voters. The National Alliance broke from the neofascist Italian Social Movement. The election saw a major turnover in the new parliament, with 452 out of 630 deputies and 213 out of 315 senators elected for the first time. The 1994 elections also swept media magnate [[Silvio Berlusconi]], and his Freedom Pole coalition, into office as Prime Minister. A trend toward two large coalitions--one on the center-left and the other on the center-right--emerged from the April 1995 regional elections.

Berlusconi, however, was forced to step down in January [[1995]] when one member of his coalition withdrew support. The Berlusconi government was succeeded by a technical government headed by Prime Minister Lamberto Dini, which fell in early [[1996]]. For the 1996 national elections, the center-left parties created the Olive Tree coalition while the center right united again under the Freedom Pole. The new elections in 1996 brought a center-left coalition to government for the first time after World War II.

A series of center-left coalitions dominated Italy's political landscape between 1996 and 2001. In April 1996, national elections led to the victory of a center-left coalition (the Olive Tree) under the leadership of Romano Prodi. Prodi's government became the second-longest to stay in power before he narrowly lost a vote of confidence (by three votes) in October 1998. A new government was formed by Democratic Party of the Left leader and former-communist Massimo D'Alema.

Italy adopted the [[euro]] as its currency in January [[1999]]. Treasury Secretary Carlo Ciampi, who is credited with the economic reforms that permitted Italy to enter the European Monetary Union, was elected president in May 1999. Italy joined its [[NATO]] partners in the [[Kosovo]] crisis. Aviano Air Base in northern Italy was a crucial base for launching air strikes into Kosovo and [[Yugoslavia]].

In April [[2000]], following a poor showing by his coalition in regional elections, D'Alema resigned. The succeeding center-left government, including most of the same parties, was headed by Giuliano Amato, who previously served as Prime Minister in 1992-93.

National elections, held on May 13, [[2001]], returned Berlusconi to power at the head of the five-party center-right Freedom House coalition, comprising the prime minister's own party, Forza Italia, the National Alliance, the Northern League, the Christian Democratic Center, and the United Christian Democrats. Berlusconi pledged to reduce unemployment, cut taxes, revamp the educational system, and reform the bureaucracy. His critics were alarmed by the apparent conflict of interest of a prime minister who also owned 90% of Italy's media. He was accused of Mafia connections and was under indictment for tax fraud and bribery. Found guilty in three out of four of his trials, he was acquitted in all of them on appeal. Several other cases are pending.

In Nov. [[2002]], Giulio Andreotti, who served as Italy's prime minister numerous times between 1972 and 1992, was sentenced to 24 years for ordering the [[Mafia]] to murder a journalist in 1979. At 84, however, he was deemed too old for prison.

At the end of [[2003]], Italian food giant [[Parmalat]] was accused of a massive accounting fraud scheme—$5 billion the company claimed was in fact nonexistent.

In April [[2005]], regional elections had disastrous results for Berlusconi's center-right coalition. The dismal state of the economy was blamed for the poor showing. Prime Minister Berlusconi resigned and formed a new government. The 60th government since the liberation of Italy was formed on April 23, 2005, with a new program emphasizing economic concerns. The previous Berlusconi government was the longest serving in Italy’s post-war history. In the same year parliament passed a new electoral law based on full proportional assignment of seats.

In national elections held April 9-10, [[2006]], the center-left Union coalition led by Romano Prodi, a successor to the Olive Tree, won 49.8% of the vote and Berlusconi's House of Liberties coalition won 49.7%—a mere 25,000 vote difference. The Union coalition includes the Democratic Party of the Left, the Daisy Party, UDEUR (Union of Democrats for Europe), Rose in the Fist (made up by Italian Social Democrats and Italian Radical Party), Communist Renewal, the Italian Communist Party, and the Greens. Berlusconi refused to concede and called for a recount. He eventually relented, and Prodi was given the go-ahead by the newly installed president Giorgio Napolitano to form a government. Prodi served as prime minister once before (1996–98) and also as president of the European Union. Prodi's government proved fragile almost immediately. Indeed, he submitted his resignation just nine months into his term after a key foreign-policy vote about the deployment of troops to Afghanistan and an expansion of a U. S. military base failed in the Senate. Days later, the Senate, facing the prospect of Silvio Berlusconi returning to power, narrowly passed a vote of confidence in Prodi's government. Prodi remained in office, surely to face similar obstacles in the near future.

In April 2006, Italy caught and arrested Bernardo Provenzano, the alleged boss of the Sicilian Mafia, who had eluded authorities for 42 years.

In October [[2007]], the Democrats of the Left and the Daisy parties officially merged to form the '''Democratic Party'''.

[[File:Logo-pdl-berlusconi.jpg|left|200px]]
The Prodi government collapsed on January 24, [[2008]], when it lost a vote of confidence in the Senate and the Prime Minster submitted his resignation to the President. The Prodi government fell when small coalition partner UDEUR withdrew support. In February, the President dissolved parliament and Silvio Berlusconi returned to power after defeating former Rome Mayor Walter Veltroni by a comfortable margin in elections on April 13-14, 2008. Berlusconi's winning coalition was composed of the '''People of Liberty''' (a union of Forza Italia and Gianfranco Fini's National Alliance), the Northern League, and the Movement for Autonomy. The election greatly simplified parliament, dramatically reducing the numbers of parties, and for the first time since World War II, leaving communist parties out of parliament. People of Liberty (37.4%) won the largest share of the vote and took power in coalition with a strengthened Northern League (8.3%) and the tiny Movement for Autonomy (1.1%). The Democratic Party scored 33.2% and ran in alliance with Italy of Values (4.4%), while the Union of the Center (5.6%) ran alone.

Berlusconi was sworn in as Prime Minister on May 8. Veltroni resigned as leader of the opposition in February [[2009]], and his deputy, Dario Franceschini, was elected new Democratic Party leader. In March 2009, Forza Italia and National Alliance changed the People of Liberty identification from an alliance to a party. The new mass center-right party is Italy's largest party and one of the largest in Europe. Party leaders define the party as post-ideological, charismatic, and pragmatic. It is led by Berlusconi.

In [[2010]], Gianfranco Fini's conservative party Future and Freedom emerged from a split from Berlusconi's People of Liberty party.

==Government==
Italy has been a democratic republic since June 2, 1946, when the monarchy was abolished by popular referendum. The constitution was promulgated on January 1, 1948.

The Italian state is centralized. The prefect of each of the provinces is appointed by and answerable to the central government. In addition to the provinces, the constitution provides for 20 regions with limited governing powers. Five regions--Sardinia, Sicily, Trentino-Alto Adige, Valle d'Aosta, and Friuli-Venezia Giulia--function with special autonomy statutes. The other 15 regions were established in 1970 and vote for regional "councils." The establishment of regional governments throughout Italy has brought some decentralization to the national governmental machinery, and recent governments have devolved further powers to the regions. Many regional governments, particularly in the north of Italy, are seeking additional powers.

The 1948 constitution established a perfectly bicameral parliament (Chamber of Deputies and Senate), a separate judiciary, and an executive branch composed of a Council of Ministers (cabinet), headed by the president of the council (prime minister). The president of the republic is elected for seven years by the parliament sitting jointly with a small number of regional delegates. The president nominates the prime minister, who chooses the other ministers. The Council of Ministers--in practice composed mostly of members of parliament--must retain the confidence of both houses.

The houses of parliament are popularly and directly elected by a proportional representation system. Under 2005 legislation, the Chamber of Deputies has 630 members (12 of which are elected by Italians abroad). In addition to 315 elected members (six of which are elected by Italians abroad), the Senate includes former presidents and several other persons appointed for life according to special constitutional provisions. Both houses are elected for a maximum of five years, but either may be dissolved before the expiration of its normal term. Legislative bills may originate in either house and must be passed by a majority in both.

The Italian judicial system is based on Roman law modified by the Napoleonic code and subsequent statutes. There is only partial judicial review of legislation in the American sense. A constitutional court, which passes on the constitutionality of laws, is a post-World War II innovation. Its powers, volume, and frequency of decisions are not as extensive as those of the U.S. Supreme Court.

===Principal Government Officials===
*President--Giorgio Napolitano
*Prime Minister--Mario Monti
*Foreign Minister--Giulio Terzi di Sant'Agata
*Minister of Defense--Admiral Giampaolo di Paola
*Minister of Finance--Vittorio Umberto Grilli
*Minister of Justice--Paola Severino
*Minister of the Interior--Anna Maria Cancellieri

===Foreign Relations===
Italy was a founding member of the European Community--now the [[European Union]] (EU). Italy was admitted to the [[United Nations]] in 1955 and is a member and strong supporter of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization ([[NATO]]), the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD), the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade/World Trade Organization (GATT/WTO), the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), and the Council of Europe. It chaired the CSCE (the forerunner of the OSCE) in 1994, the EU from July to December 1990, January to June 1996, and July to December 2003, and the G-8 in 2001 and in 2009. Italy served a two-year term on the UN Security Council in 2007-2008.

Italy firmly supports the United Nations and its international security activities. Italy leads the UN mission in Lebanon (UNIFIL) and has actively participated in and deployed troops in support of UN peacekeeping missions in Somalia, Mozambique, and Timor-Leste. It provides critical support for NATO and EU operations in Afghanistan, Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Georgia, and Chad.

Italy, under NATO's ISAF, maintains a Provincial Reconstruction Team in the western [[Afghanistan]] province of Herat, commands RC-West, and maintains a Carabinieri police training center. Italy supports reconstruction and development assistance to the Iraqi people through humanitarian workers and other officials, particularly in Dhi Qar Province, and is a leading contributor to the NATO Training Mission-Iraq, with approximately 100 military personnel and Carabinieri police trainers. Currently almost 9,000 Italian troops are deployed, including 2,100 in Kosovo, 2,350 in Lebanon as part of UNIFIL, and over 2,600 in Afghanistan. It will send another 1000 troops for the surge in [[Afghanistan War|Afghanistan]] in 2010.

==Economy==
[[File:Banca Commerciale Italiana Milan.JPG|thumb|300px|Palace of the "Banca Commerciale Italiana", Milan.]]
The Italian economy has changed dramatically since the end of World War II. From an agricultural-based economy, it has developed into an industrial state ranked as the world's sixth-largest market economy. Italy belongs to the Group of Eight (G-8) industrialized nations; it is a member of the European Union and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).

Italy has few natural resources. With much land unsuited for farming, Italy is a net food importer. There are no substantial deposits of iron, coal, or oil. Proven natural gas reserves, mainly in the Po Valley and offshore Adriatic, constitute the country's most important mineral resource. Most raw materials needed for manufacturing and more than 80% of the country's energy sources are imported. Italy's economic strength is in the processing and the manufacturing of goods, primarily in small and medium-sized family-owned firms. Its major industries are precision machinery, motor vehicles, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, electric goods, and fashion and clothing.

Italy's economic growth averaged only 0.66% for the five years ending in 2005; 2006 GDP growth reached 1.9%, largely due to export growth to the Euro zone area.

Italy continues to grapple with budget deficits and high public debt--2.6% and 105.9% of GDP for 2008, respectively. Italy joined the European Monetary Union in 1998 by signing the Stability and Growth Pact, and as a condition of this Euro zone membership, Italy must keep its budget deficit beneath a 3% ceiling. The Italian Government has found it difficult to bring the budget deficit down to a level that would allow a rapid decrease of that debt. The worsening of the economic situation is expected to jeopardize this effort. The deficit is expected to grow well above the 3% ceiling in 2009 and 2010.

Italy's economic growth averaged only 0.8% in the period 2001-2008; 2008 GDP decreased 1.0%, largely due to the global economic crisis and its impact on exports and domestic demand. GDP is expected to contract further, with a huge decrease in 2009 (ranging from 2% to 3%) as the Euro zone and world economies slow.

Italy's closest trade ties are with the other countries of the European Union, with whom it conducts about 60.1% of its total trade (2007 data). Its largest EU trade partners are Germany (12.9%), France (11.4%), and the United Kingdom (5.8%). Italy continues to grapple with the effects of globalization, where China has undersold the Italian lower-end industrial product sector.

The Italian economy is also affected by a large underground economy--worth some 27% of its GDP. This production is not subject, of course, to taxation and thus remains a source of lost revenue to the local and central government.

*GDP (purchasing power parity, 2007 est.): $1.8 trillion.
*GDP per capita (purchasing power parity, 2007 est.): $31,000.
*GDP growth: 1.7% (2007); 1.9% (2006); 0.1% (2005); 0.9% (2003 est.); 0.4% (2002); 1.8% (2001).
*Natural resources: Fish and natural gas.
*Agriculture: Products--wheat, rice, grapes, olives, citrus fruits, potatoes, sugar beets, soybeans beef, dairy products.
*Industry: Types--tourism, machinery, iron and steel, chemicals, food processing, textiles, motor vehicles, clothing, footwear, ceramics.
*Trade: Exports (2007 est.)--$474.8 billion f.o.b.: mechanical products, textiles and apparel, transportation equipment, metal products, chemical products, food and agricultural products. Partners (2006)--Germany 13.2%, France 12.3%, U.S. 7.5%, Spain 7.5%, U.K. 6.6%. Imports (2007 est.)--$483.6 billion f.o.b.: machinery and transport equipment, foodstuffs, ferrous and nonferrous metals, wool, cotton, energy products. Partners (2006)--Germany 17.3%, France 10.0%, Netherlands 5.7%, China 5.2%, Belgium 4.5%, Spain 4.3%.

====U.S.-Italy Economic Relations====
The United States and Italy cooperate closely on major economic issues, including within the G-8. With a large population and a high per capita income, Italy was the United States' twelfth-largest trading partner in 2008, with total bilateral trade of $51.6 billion comprised of exports to Italy totaling $15.5 billion and imports worth $36.1 billion. The U.S.'s $20.7 billion deficit with Italy in 2008 was slightly below the $20.9 billion deficit registered in 2007. Machinery and aircraft are becoming important U.S. exports. U.S. foreign direct investment in Italy at the end of 2007 exceeded $28.4 billion.

====Labor====
Unemployment is a regional issue in Italy--low in the north, high in the south. The overall national rate is at its lowest level since 1992. Chronic problems of inadequate infrastructure, corruption, and organized crime act as disincentives to investment and job creation in the south. A significant underground economy absorbs substantial numbers of people, but they work for low wages and without standard social benefits and protections. Women and youth have significantly higher rates of unemployment than do men.

Unions claim to represent 40% of the work force. Most Italian unions are grouped in four major confederations: the General Italian Confederation of Labor (CGIL), the Italian Confederation of Workers' Unions (CISL), the Italian Union of Labor (UIL), and the General Union of Labor (UGL), which together claim 35% of the work force. These confederations formerly were associated with important political parties or currents, but they have evolved into fully autonomous, professional bodies. The CGIL, CISL, and UIL are affiliated with the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions (ICFTU) and customarily coordinate their positions before confronting management or lobbying the government. The confederations have had an important consultative role on national social and economic issues.

====Agriculture====
Italy's agriculture is typical of the division between the agricultures of the northern and southern countries of the European Union. The northern part of Italy produces primarily grains, sugarbeets, soybeans, meat, and dairy products, while the south specializes in fruits, vegetables, olive oil, wine, and durum wheat. Even though much of its mountainous terrain is unsuitable for farming, Italy has a large work force (1.4 million) employed in farming. Most farms are small, with the average size being only seven hectares.

== See also ==
*[[Benito Mussolini]]
*[[Giuseppe Garibaldi]]
*[[Galileo Galilei]]
*[[Marco Polo]]
*[[The Renaissance]]
*[[Painting Schools]]

== External links ==
*[http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107658.html]

==References==
<references/>

{{Copyright Details (US Government)}}

{{European Union}}

[[Category:European History]]
[[Category:European Countries]]
[[Category:NATO members]]
[[Category:Christian-Majority Countries]]

Talk:Francis Arinze

2013-03-11T20:52:01Z

Swordsman:

Benito Mussolini

2012-07-02T21:54:19Z

Swordsman: the forlì-cesena province was only created in 1992

{{Dictator bio
| image =[[Image:Mussolini.gif|200px]]
| name =Benito Mussolini
| birth =July 29, 1883 Predappio, Forlì, Italy
| parents =Alessandro Mussolini Rosa Maltoni
| religion =Roman Catholic (rejected) Atheist
| education =No higher education beyond public schooling
| spouse =Ida Irene Dalser (d. 1937) Rachele Guidi Clara Petacci (mistress)
| children =Benito Albino Mussolini (from Ida) Rachele Mussolini Edda Mussolini Anna Maria Mussolini Vittorio Mussolini Bruno Mussolini Romano Mussolini
| death =April 28, 1945 Giulino di Mezzegra, Italy
| deathmanner =Executed by firing squad
| burial =Predappio, Emilia-Romagna Region, Italy
| country =[[Italy]]
| military =Italian Army (1917)
| rank =Corporal
| polbeliefs =[[Socialism]] [[Fascism]]
| party =Italian Socialist Party (1901-1914) National Fascist Party (1921-1943) Republican Fascist Party (1943-1945)
| dictatordate =1922
| war =Invasions of [[Libya]], [[Ethiopia]] Allied with [[Third Reich|Germany]] in [[World War II]]
| deathnumber =Unknown; believed in the thousands
}}
'''Benito Andrea Amilcare Mussolini''' (1883-1945) was the [[Fascist]] dictator of [[Italy]].
A life-long [[socialist]] [[intellectual]]<ref>''[[Liberal Fascism]]'', [[Jonah Goldberg]], Page 31</ref> and self-proclaimed "socialist heretic", he was nominated prime minister by Vittorio Emanuele III di Savoia, King of Italy, in the time of [[World War II]]. He was head of one of the strong forms of government seen in Europe in this time. He created the political structure Fasci Italiani di Combatimento, which is what later would be known as [[Fascism]], a term which was later used to describe the merging of government and corporation. He was responsible for several war crimes in [[Ethiopia]] and [[Yugoslavia]].

==Early Life==
Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini was born July 29, 1883.
He was executed on April 28, 1945.<ref>[http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm Execution of Mussolini]</ref>
Mussolini was born in the central Italian town of Predappio, in the then-province of Forlì (from 1992 called province of Forlì-Cesena). His father, Alessandro, was a blacksmith and his mother, Rosa Maltoni, was a school teacher. Alessandro Mussolini was an enthusiast socialist of the anarchic wing and an atheist. He bestowed the first name "Benito" upon his son after Mexican president [[Benito Juarez]] and the middle name "Andrea" after the founder of the short-lived Italian "Revolutionary Socialist Party of Romagna", Andrea Conti. Benito's mother, however, was a religious Catholic woman and had the child baptized.

Benito Mussolini had a troubled education: he was expelled from a Salesian-run religious middle school in Faenza when he stabbed an older classmate with a knife. After that, he enrolled in a public and secular Teachers' School for Boys in Forlimpopoli (even there, he was poorly behaved and involved in fistfights). He graduated in 1901 with an elementary teacher's license, but was jobless. In order to avoid mandatory military service, he fled to [[Switzerland]] where he lived by his wits. He never attended any kind of university, as his school didn't grant the necessary diploma to do so.

Mussolini had been introduced to socialism by his father, and got closer and closer to the Socialist Party in his teen years, until he eventually subscribed in 1900. He started writing on the socialist newspaper ''L'Avvenire del lavoratore'' very soon, in 1904.

==Fascism and Socialism==

Mussolini created [[Fascism]] "from the same intellectual material [[Lenin]] and [[Trotsky]] had built their movements with."<ref name=lf31 />

"His fluency in socialist theory was, if not legendary, certainly impressive to everyone who knew him."<ref>''[[Liberal Fascism]]'', [[Jonah Goldberg]], Page 34</ref>
Olindo Vernocchi declared Mussolini "not only the representative of the Romagna Socialist bu the ''Duce'' of all revolutionary socialists in Italy."<ref>''[[Liberal Fascism]]'', [[Jonah Goldberg]], Page 35</ref>

==Benito Mussolini and Atheism==
In his work entitled Mussolini Denis Mack Smith wrote the following:
{{cquote|From his father he [Mussolini] had learnt to be a thoroughgoing anti-clerical. He proclaimed himself to be an [[Atheism|atheist]] and several times tried to shock an audience by calling on God to strike him dead. He forcibly denounced those socialists who thought religion a matter for individual conscience or had their children baptised. [In Mussolini's opinion] Science had proved that God did not exist and the Jesus of history was an ignorant Jew whose family thought him mad, and who was a pigmy compared to the Buddha. Religion, he said, was a disease of the psyche, an epidemic to be cured by psychiatrists, and Christianity in particular was vitiated by preaching the senseless virtues of resignation and cowardice, whereas the new socialist morality should celebrate violence and rebellion."<ref>"Mussolini", by Denis Mack Smith, Vintage Books, 1983, page 8.</ref>}}

Though privately hostile to the [[Roman Catholic Church]], Mussolini oversaw the [[Lateran Treaties]] in 1929, which recognized the independence of the Vatican and even contained a provision that outlawed any display of disrespect for the [[Pope]]. In addition, all schools including Catholic schools had to honor Mussolini and his picture was prominently displayed in each classroom. <ref>[Per User:Jpatt's grandmother who went to school in Italy until age 7]</ref>

By February 1918, he was calling for the emergence of a leader "ruthless and energetic enough to make a clean sweep." In May, he hinted in a speech in Bologna that he might be that leader.

==Rise to Power==
In 1923 after rising through the ranks Mussolini became the elected member for Tuscany in the Italian Parliament. In 1927 he took over from Mario Felloni as the leader of Cullo Cappelli who were the opposition. Leading up to the 1928 election Mussolini began to begin his campaign. During this time Italy was in an economic slump and the Italian public were not satisfied with the president of the time, Francisco Delosini and his Treasurer Guido Michenelli's management of the federal budget. Mussolini preyed on this dissatisfaction and promised to eliminate all debt within the government. In 1922, Mussolini was invited by King Vittorio Emanuele III to form a new Italian government. A law passed on Christmas Eve 1925 changed Mussolini's title from "president of the Council of Ministers" (prime minister) to "head of the government." He was no longer responsible to Parliament, and could only be removed by the king.

* "... most American liberals either admired Mussolini and his project or simply didn't care much about it one way or the other."<ref>''[[Liberal Fascism]]'', [[Jonah Goldberg]], Page 30</ref>

==Alliance with Hitler==
In 1931 Mussolini first came into contact with [[Adolf Hitler]] at a meeting of European leaders, and an alliance was formed. For the rest of the 1930's Mussolini began to recklessly spend Italy's money on obsolete arms which he planned to issue to the army if Hitler ever attempted to take over Europe. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia with this army and using poison gas defeated the imperial troops. The world was horrified at his use of weapons of mass destruction (i.e. poison gas).

==World War II==
In September 1939 when [[England]] and [[France]] declared war on [[Germany]] after Hitler invaded [[Poland]], Mussolini announced that Italy would join Germany in the war effort against the allied forces. He waited however, until after France had surrendered before invading southern France and officially entering the war. During World War 2, he increased his military, limited free speech and pushed his political views on all of his countrymen even more so.

===Mussolini Deposed===
When the [[Allies]] invaded the Italian island of [[Sicily]] in 1943, King [[Vittorio Emmanuel III]] panicked at the thought of an Allied invasion of the Italian mainland. He immediately stripped Mussolini of his power and ordered Mussolini to be arrested.

===Reinstatement===
He was rescued through covert operations by German special forces (most notably [[Otto Skorzeny]]) without a single casualty occurring during the rescue operation. Mussolini was then installed as the head of the German puppet state, Repubblica Sociale Italiana (RSI) based at Salo in northern Italy - hence its alternative name of the Salo Republic.

===Capture and Death===
Mussolini was later recaptured at the end of the war by partisans. He and his mistress Claretta Petacci were shot and hanged upside down.

== War crimes ==
Mussolini is responsible for several war crimes during the Italian occupation of Abyssinia (today Ethiopia) and Yugoslavia.

During the second [[Italo-Abyssinian war]], Italian troops commited atrocites such as the use of mustard gas, the bombing of Red Cross hospitals and ambulances, the execution of captured prisoners without trial, the [[Graziani massacre]], the killings at Däbrä Libanos monastery, and the shooting of "witch-doctors" accused of prophesying the end of fascist rule.<ref>Richard Pankhurst, ''Addis Ababa University'', Italian Fascist war crimes in Ethiopia ([http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/northeast_african_studies/v006/6.1pankhurst.html])</ref>

During the Italian occupation of [[Yugoslavia]] in WWII, Italian troops used draconian measures to intimidate the native [[Slav]]ic population into silence, such as summary executions, hostage-taking, reprisals, internments and the burning of houses and villages.<ref>An independent report on Italo-Slovenian relationships in the 1941-1945 period ([http://www.kozina.com/premik/poreng4.htm])</ref>

Many historians consider both of the forementioned an attempt of [[genocide]].

==Family Members==
His legacy is continued by his neo-fascist granddaughter Alessandra Mussolini, who is a current member of the European Parliament. His daughter-in-law, Anna Maria Scicolone, was the sister of actress [[Sophia Loren]].

==Quotes==
* "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State) <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=wHihWKJE3asC&pg=PA52&dq=everything+in+the+State,+nothing+outside+the+State,+nothing+against+the+State&ei=oW8TSt6pLYPuzQTw9Oy3BA#PPA52,M1
Liberal fascism: the secret history of the American left, from Mussolini to ...‎ - Page 52]</ref>

==See Also==
* [[Margherita Grassini]]

== References ==
<references/>

== External links ==

*[http://www.nndb.com/people/468/000045333/ Benito Mussolini] NNDB.

{{DEFAULTSORT:Mussolini, Benito}}

[[Category:World War II]]
[[Category:Socialists]]
[[Category:Fascists]]
[[Category:Dictators]]
[[Category:Italian History]]

Benito Mussolini

2012-07-02T21:33:05Z

Swordsman: never read so much bs on Mussolini...

{{Dictator bio
| image =[[Image:Mussolini.gif|200px]]
| name =Benito Mussolini
| birth =July 29, 1883 Predappio, Forlì, Italy
| parents =Alessandro Mussolini Rosa Maltoni
| religion =Roman Catholic (rejected) Atheist
| education =No higher education beyond public schooling
| spouse =Ida Irene Dalser (d. 1937) Rachele Guidi Clara Petacci (mistress)
| children =Benito Albino Mussolini (from Ida) Rachele Mussolini Edda Mussolini Anna Maria Mussolini Vittorio Mussolini Bruno Mussolini Romano Mussolini
| death =April 28, 1945 Giulino di Mezzegra, Italy
| deathmanner =Executed by firing squad
| burial =Predappio, Emilia-Romagna Region, Italy
| country =[[Italy]]
| military =Italian Army (1917)
| rank =Corporal
| polbeliefs =[[Socialism]] [[Fascism]]
| party =Italian Socialist Party (1901-1914) National Fascist Party (1921-1943) Republican Fascist Party (1943-1945)
| dictatordate =1922
| war =Invasions of [[Libya]], [[Ethiopia]] Allied with [[Third Reich|Germany]] in [[World War II]]
| deathnumber =Unknown; believed in the thousands
}}
'''Benito Andrea Amilcare Mussolini''' (1883-1945) was the [[Fascist]] dictator of [[Italy]].
A life-long [[socialist]] [[intellectual]]<ref>''[[Liberal Fascism]]'', [[Jonah Goldberg]], Page 31</ref> and self-proclaimed "socialist heretic", he was nominated prime minister by Vittorio Emanuele III di Savoia, King of Italy, in the time of [[World War II]]. He was head of one of the strong forms of government seen in Europe in this time. He created the political structure Fasci Italiani di Combatimento, which is what later would be known as [[Fascism]], a term which was later used to describe the merging of government and corporation. He was responsible for several war crimes in [[Ethiopia]] and [[Yugoslavia]].

==Early Life==
Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini was born July 29, 1883.
He was executed on April 28, 1945.<ref>[http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm Execution of Mussolini]</ref>
Mussolini was born in the central Italian town of Predappio, province of Forlì. His father, Alessandro, was a blacksmith and his mother, Rosa Maltoni, was a school teacher. Alessandro Mussolini was an enthusiast socialist of the anarchic wing and an atheist. He bestowed the first name "Benito" upon his son after Mexican president [[Benito Juarez]] and the middle name "Andrea" after the founder of the short-lived Italian "Revolutionary Socialist Party of Romagna", Andrea Conti. Benito's mother, however, was a religious Catholic woman and had the child baptized.

Benito Mussolini had a troubled education: he was expelled from a Salesian-run religious middle school in Faenza when he stabbed an older classmate with a knife. After that, he enrolled in a public and secular Teachers' School for Boys in Forlimpopoli (even there, he was poorly behaved and involved in fistfights). He graduated in 1901 with an elementary teacher's license, but was jobless. In order to avoid mandatory military service, he fled to [[Switzerland]] where he lived by his wits. He never attended any kind of university, as his school didn't grant the necessary diploma to do so.

Mussolini had been introduced to socialism by his father, and got closer and closer to the Socialist Party in his teen years, until he eventually subscribed in 1900. He started writing on the socialist newspaper ''L'Avvenire del lavoratore'' very soon, in 1904.

==Fascism and Socialism==

Mussolini created [[Fascism]] "from the same intellectual material [[Lenin]] and [[Trotsky]] had built their movements with."<ref name=lf31 />

"His fluency in socialist theory was, if not legendary, certainly impressive to everyone who knew him."<ref>''[[Liberal Fascism]]'', [[Jonah Goldberg]], Page 34</ref>
Olindo Vernocchi declared Mussolini "not only the representative of the Romagna Socialist bu the ''Duce'' of all revolutionary socialists in Italy."<ref>''[[Liberal Fascism]]'', [[Jonah Goldberg]], Page 35</ref>

==Benito Mussolini and Atheism==
In his work entitled Mussolini Denis Mack Smith wrote the following:
{{cquote|From his father he [Mussolini] had learnt to be a thoroughgoing anti-clerical. He proclaimed himself to be an [[Atheism|atheist]] and several times tried to shock an audience by calling on God to strike him dead. He forcibly denounced those socialists who thought religion a matter for individual conscience or had their children baptised. [In Mussolini's opinion] Science had proved that God did not exist and the Jesus of history was an ignorant Jew whose family thought him mad, and who was a pigmy compared to the Buddha. Religion, he said, was a disease of the psyche, an epidemic to be cured by psychiatrists, and Christianity in particular was vitiated by preaching the senseless virtues of resignation and cowardice, whereas the new socialist morality should celebrate violence and rebellion."<ref>"Mussolini", by Denis Mack Smith, Vintage Books, 1983, page 8.</ref>}}

Though privately hostile to the [[Roman Catholic Church]], Mussolini oversaw the [[Lateran Treaties]] in 1929, which recognized the independence of the Vatican and even contained a provision that outlawed any display of disrespect for the [[Pope]]. In addition, all schools including Catholic schools had to honor Mussolini and his picture was prominently displayed in each classroom. <ref>[Per User:Jpatt's grandmother who went to school in Italy until age 7]</ref>

By February 1918, he was calling for the emergence of a leader "ruthless and energetic enough to make a clean sweep." In May, he hinted in a speech in Bologna that he might be that leader.

==Rise to Power==
In 1923 after rising through the ranks Mussolini became the elected member for Tuscany in the Italian Parliament. In 1927 he took over from Mario Felloni as the leader of Cullo Cappelli who were the opposition. Leading up to the 1928 election Mussolini began to begin his campaign. During this time Italy was in an economic slump and the Italian public were not satisfied with the president of the time, Francisco Delosini and his Treasurer Guido Michenelli's management of the federal budget. Mussolini preyed on this dissatisfaction and promised to eliminate all debt within the government. In 1922, Mussolini was invited by King Vittorio Emanuele III to form a new Italian government. A law passed on Christmas Eve 1925 changed Mussolini's title from "president of the Council of Ministers" (prime minister) to "head of the government." He was no longer responsible to Parliament, and could only be removed by the king.

* "... most American liberals either admired Mussolini and his project or simply didn't care much about it one way or the other."<ref>''[[Liberal Fascism]]'', [[Jonah Goldberg]], Page 30</ref>

==Alliance with Hitler==
In 1931 Mussolini first came into contact with [[Adolf Hitler]] at a meeting of European leaders, and an alliance was formed. For the rest of the 1930's Mussolini began to recklessly spend Italy's money on obsolete arms which he planned to issue to the army if Hitler ever attempted to take over Europe. In 1935, he invaded Ethiopia with this army and using poison gas defeated the imperial troops. The world was horrified at his use of weapons of mass destruction (i.e. poison gas).

==World War II==
In September 1939 when [[England]] and [[France]] declared war on [[Germany]] after Hitler invaded [[Poland]], Mussolini announced that Italy would join Germany in the war effort against the allied forces. He waited however, until after France had surrendered before invading southern France and officially entering the war. During World War 2, he increased his military, limited free speech and pushed his political views on all of his countrymen even more so.

===Mussolini Deposed===
When the [[Allies]] invaded the Italian island of [[Sicily]] in 1943, King [[Vittorio Emmanuel III]] panicked at the thought of an Allied invasion of the Italian mainland. He immediately stripped Mussolini of his power and ordered Mussolini to be arrested.

===Reinstatement===
He was rescued through covert operations by German special forces (most notably [[Otto Skorzeny]]) without a single casualty occurring during the rescue operation. Mussolini was then installed as the head of the German puppet state, Repubblica Sociale Italiana (RSI) based at Salo in northern Italy - hence its alternative name of the Salo Republic.

===Capture and Death===
Mussolini was later recaptured at the end of the war by partisans. He and his mistress were shot and hanged upside down.

== War crimes ==
Mussolini is responsible for several war crimes during the Italian occupation of Abyssinia (today Ethiopia) and Yugoslavia.

During the second [[Italo-Abyssinian war]], Italian troops commited atrocites such as the use of mustard gas, the bombing of Red Cross hospitals and ambulances, the execution of captured prisoners without trial, the [[Graziani massacre]], the killings at Däbrä Libanos monastery, and the shooting of "witch-doctors" accused of prophesying the end of fascist rule.<ref>Richard Pankhurst, ''Addis Ababa University'', Italian Fascist war crimes in Ethiopia ([http://muse.jhu.edu/demo/northeast_african_studies/v006/6.1pankhurst.html])</ref>

During the Italian occupation of [[Yugoslavia]] in WWII, Italian troops used draconian measures to intimidate the native [[Slav]]ic population into silence, such as summary executions, hostage-taking, reprisals, internments and the burning of houses and villages.<ref>An independent report on Italo-Slovenian relationships in the 1941-1945 period ([http://www.kozina.com/premik/poreng4.htm])</ref>

Many historians consider both of the forementioned an attempt of [[genocide]].

==Family Members==
His legacy is continued by his neo-fascist granddaughter Alessandra Mussolini, who is a current member of the European Parliament. His daughter-in-law, Anna Maria Scicolone, was the sister of actress [[Sophia Loren]].

==Quotes==
* "Tutto nello Stato, niente al di fuori dello Stato, nulla contro lo Stato" (Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State) <ref>[http://books.google.com/books?id=wHihWKJE3asC&pg=PA52&dq=everything+in+the+State,+nothing+outside+the+State,+nothing+against+the+State&ei=oW8TSt6pLYPuzQTw9Oy3BA#PPA52,M1
Liberal fascism: the secret history of the American left, from Mussolini to ...‎ - Page 52]</ref>

==See Also==
* [[Margherita Grassini]]

== References ==
<references/>

== External links ==

*[http://www.nndb.com/people/468/000045333/ Benito Mussolini] NNDB.

{{DEFAULTSORT:Mussolini, Benito}}

[[Category:World War II]]
[[Category:Socialists]]
[[Category:Fascists]]
[[Category:Dictators]]
[[Category:Italian History]]

Video game industry

2012-01-15T15:13:23Z

Swordsman: /* Anders Breivik and Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 */

The '''video game industry''' is a major entertainment industry that has over $20 billion in annual sales.<ref>http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_100114.html</ref> Video game sales surpassed [[Hollywood]] revenue in the year 2007.<ref name="Video">http://seekingalpha.com/article/89124-the-video-game-industry-an-18-billion-entertainment-juggernaut</ref>

==Video Games and the Spreading of Liberal Values==
The video game industry has a long history of unintentionally spreading liberal values and extremist ideals to children.

====Examples====
*Overusing profanity (Many games rated "T" for "teen")
*Meticulous designs of blood and gore (Virtually every game rated for 17+ players)
*Allowing players to be terrorists and perform terrorism (''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2'')
*Allowing players to have fornication with prostitutes (All ''Grand Theft Auto'' video games)
*Welcoming to more violence, such as providing bonus points for extra murders (''Grand Theft Auto IV'')
*Over reliance on violence than story (''Gears of War'')
*Overtones of [[Hollywood Values]] (''Grand Theft Auto: The Ballad of Gay Tony'')
*Allowing players to gamble in [[Las Vegas]] themed casinos and borrow money from [[mafia]] bosses (Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas after completing a flight school).
*Godless protagonists, religious antagonists. (''Sins of a Solar Empire'')
*Encourages radical terrorism (''Red Faction: Guerrilla'')
*Promotes idolatry (''Black and White'')

====Anders Breivik and ''Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2''====
[[Anders Breivik]], the Norwegian gunman and bomber who killed 77 people in a terrible massacre in Oslo on July 22, 2011, was apparently very fond of the 2009 FPS (First Person Shooter) ''Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2'' (MW2). He considered it to be his "training" for the bloody act he was going to commit. In his "manifesto," he wrote that the videogame: "... is probably the best military simulator out there and it’s one of the hottest. I see MW2 more as part of my training-simulation than anything else."<ref>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8663329/Norway-Anders-Behring-Breivik-used-online-war-games-as-training.html</ref>

In fact, the Utoya island massacre bears a striking resemblance to the fourth level of MW2, named ''No Russian''. In the level, the player takes control of a machine gun-armed gunman who has to shoot against helpless crowds in a Moscow airport, during an acknowledged terrorist act. Said level is extremely graphic and full of blood, panicking victims, screams and gore; many people in the airport raise their hands to try and surrender, but the player has to gun them down anyway; there is no reaction or foe to fight with during the massacre, save for harmless security guards that are easily dispatched, and all the player has to do is to keep firing with his machine gun against running crowds.
The game offers twice the opportunity to skip the level if the player thinks he or she will find it disturbing, but this obviously has no deterrence against ill-intentioned players. It would be like putting a "Don't take this if you are an alcoholist" on a liquor bottle when alcoholists are all around.
It may be speculated that Breivik was inspired by the videogame for his shooting massacre.

{{Liberalism}}

== References ==

<references/>

[[Category:video Games]]

Video game industry

2012-01-15T15:12:41Z

Swordsman: Added section about Call of Duty and the Norway massacre... I, albeit by chance, played the game at a friend's

The '''video game industry''' is a major entertainment industry that has over $20 billion in annual sales.<ref>http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_100114.html</ref> Video game sales surpassed [[Hollywood]] revenue in the year 2007.<ref name="Video">http://seekingalpha.com/article/89124-the-video-game-industry-an-18-billion-entertainment-juggernaut</ref>

==Video Games and the Spreading of Liberal Values==
The video game industry has a long history of unintentionally spreading liberal values and extremist ideals to children.

====Examples====
*Overusing profanity (Many games rated "T" for "teen")
*Meticulous designs of blood and gore (Virtually every game rated for 17+ players)
*Allowing players to be terrorists and perform terrorism (''Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2'')
*Allowing players to have fornication with prostitutes (All ''Grand Theft Auto'' video games)
*Welcoming to more violence, such as providing bonus points for extra murders (''Grand Theft Auto IV'')
*Over reliance on violence than story (''Gears of War'')
*Overtones of [[Hollywood Values]] (''Grand Theft Auto: The Ballad of Gay Tony'')
*Allowing players to gamble in [[Las Vegas]] themed casinos and borrow money from [[mafia]] bosses (Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas after completing a flight school).
*Godless protagonists, religious antagonists. (''Sins of a Solar Empire'')
*Encourages radical terrorism (''Red Faction: Guerrilla'')
*Promotes idolatry (''Black and White'')

====Anders Breivik and ''Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2''====
[[Anders Breivik]], the Norwegian gunman and bomber who killed 77 people in a terrible massacre in Oslo on July 22, 2011, was apparently very fond of the 2009 FPS (First Person Shooter) ''Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2'' (MW2). He considered it to be his "training" for the bloody act he was going to commit. In his "manifesto", he wrote that the videogame: "... is probably the best military simulator out there and it’s one of the hottest. I see MW2 more as part of my training-simulation than anything else."<ref>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/norway/8663329/Norway-Anders-Behring-Breivik-used-online-war-games-as-training.html</ref>

In fact, the Utoya island massacre bears a striking resemblance to the fourth level of MW2, named ''No Russian''. In the level, the player takes control of a machine gun-armed gunman who has to shoot against helpless crowds in a Moscow airport, during an acknowledged terrorist act. Said level is extremely graphic and full of blood, panicking victims, screams and gore; many people in the airport raise their hands to try and surrender, but the player has to gun them down anyway; there is no reaction or foe to fight with during the massacre, save for harmless security guards that are easily dispatched, and all the player has to do is to keep firing with his machine gun against running crowds.
The game offers twice the opportunity to skip the level if the player thinks he or she will find it disturbing, but this obviously has no deterrence against ill-intentioned players. It would be like putting a "Don't take this if you are an alcoholist" on a liquor bottle when alcoholists are all around.
It may be speculated that Breivik was inspired by the videogame for his shooting massacre.

{{Liberalism}}

== References ==

<references/>

[[Category:video Games]]

User:Swordsman

2012-01-14T23:54:02Z

Swordsman: Created page with "Hello, my name is Dominick and I am a (traveling) businessman for an international food chain. I live somewhere in Italy, but I was born in old good Syracuse, NY where I live..."

Hello, my name is Dominick and I am a (traveling) businessman for an international food chain.
I live somewhere in [[Italy]], but I was born in old good Syracuse, NY where I lived most of my life.

I am 32 years old.
I have Italian-American origins.

Nice to meet you.

Women in combat

2012-01-14T23:41:54Z

Swordsman:

'''Women in combat''' are not only less effective than men, but they reduce the effectiveness of the men they serve with. This has been proven in Poland and in Israel.

When campaigning against the [[ERA]], [[Phyllis Schlafly]] pointed out that the nation was threatened by, "groups more interested in social experimentation and appeasing pressure groups than in building a fighting force." <ref name="findarticles">[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EXI/is_2_18/ai_73063458/pg_6/?tag=content;col1 Phyllis Schlafly's Battle Against the ERA and Women in the Military]</ref>

== Arguments against women in combat ==

*It is known that, by nature, women are weaker than men in regard to physical strenght and endurance. To hide this, military entry phyiscal requirements for women are greatly diminished in every country that allows women to serve. This of course means that, if a female soldier fights a male soldier in close quarters, she will inevitably succumb, just as a female martial arts practitioner tried to fight a male, equally trained, counterpart. While there are separate sport tournaments for women, this cannot be, obviously, replicated in war.
*An official scientific study of the British Ministry of Defence, published in May 2002, stated that only the top 1% of the female soldiers match the strenght, endurance and military quality of the average male soldier. Furthermore, the study also noticed how mixed-sex units experienced a lesser level of espirt de corps and [[unit cohesion]].<ref>http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A9925990-82C2-420F-AB04-7003768CEC02/0/womenaf_fullreport.pdf</ref>
*Also, the Royal Armed Forces found out that women enrolled in co-ed basic training course suffered far more injuries - expecially pelvis fractures<ref>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18419031</ref> - than men. An Army doctor was quoted as saying: "It is common sense that women are not as strong as men, and if you put them up against men they will suffer" and that "but if they are recruited to join the infantry and you put them into a combat situation they are obviously going to let the side down because they are not strong enough."<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/245450.stm</ref> Women were eight times as likely as men to be discharged from basic training due to overuse injuries. <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1738487.stm</ref>
*Women also anatomically have specifical hygienic needs that may not be met in war situations, thus leading to illnesses and distress on their part. These illnesses include, but are not limited to, urinary tract infections and gynecological disorders.<ref>http://www.4militarywomen.org/WIM09Presentations/Steele.pdf</ref> US Army regulations explicitly advise female soldiers to wash more often and with more water than men.<ref>http://hooah4health.com/deployment/docs/Female_Soldier_Readiness_Guide.pdf</ref>
*Female soldiers may deliberately get pregnant in order to avoid hazardous duty. If a man tried to render himself medically unsuitable for combat, he would be subjected to punishment. Aside from being morally questionable, this frequently used-trick can severely harm a unit's capability to operate by removing hardly replaceable skilled military personnel. For this reason, US Major General Anthony Cucolo, commander of the Northern [[Iraq]] zone, enacted in 2009 a policy prohibiting women from getting pregnanty, allegedly with the threat of "court martial" and "jail time."<ref>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237333/Serving-U-S-troops-face-prison-fall-pregnant-active.html</ref> However, he was soon forced to back down when four [[Democrat]] Senators and the [[Feminism|Natonal Organization of Women]] fiercely attacked him on [[politically correct|political correctness]] grounds. The general reduced the penalty to a mere and symbolical "admonishment".<ref>http://abcnews.go.com/WN/general-backs-off-threat-court-martial-pregnant-soldiers/story?id=9399604#.TxBXDaVDCf4</ref>
*Men's instinct of protection towards women is ill-suited to war: Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's famous book "On Killing" stated that the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) banned women from combat for a tactical reason: when women got killed, wounded or anyway under danger, male soldiers would completely lose control over themselves in an uncontrollable, protective, instinctual aggression, severely degrading the unit's combat effectiveness. In the same book, Lt. Col. Grossman also noticed that Islamic fighters rarely if ever surrender to female soldiers. The same happens in today's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where civilians and fighters alike aren't intimidated by women.
*Israeli military historian Martin Van Creveld published a paper named "The Great Illusion: Women in Combat" where he explains, among many other arguments against women in combat, how hardly any "true" war around the world has been fought by women and that even legendary accounts of [[Soviet]] female soldiers are greatly inflated.<ref>http://people.reed.edu/~ahm/Courses/Reed-POL-359-2011-S3_WTW/Syllabus/EReadings/14.2/14.2.Creveld2000The-Great.pdf</ref>
*An "elephant in the room" of the US Military is the - alleged - rape rate of female soldiers: more than 30% of them - nearly one third, one out of three - experience some form of sexual harassment.<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8005198.stm</ref> This further gets out of control overseas, where a woman is far more likely to be raped by fellow soldiers than to be killed by enemy fire.

==See Also==
*[[Women_in_the_military#Effectiveness_of_Women_in_US_Military_Combat_Roles|Women in the Military]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Military]][[Category:Feminism]]

Women in combat

2012-01-14T23:38:55Z

Swordsman: Added section about arguments against women in combat

'''Women in combat''' are not only less effective than men, but they reduce the effectiveness of the men they serve with. This has been proven in Poland and in Israel.

When campaigning against the [[ERA]], [[Phyllis Schlafly]] pointed out that the nation was threatened by, "groups more interested in social experimentation and appeasing pressure groups than in building a fighting force." <ref name="findarticles">[http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EXI/is_2_18/ai_73063458/pg_6/?tag=content;col1 Phyllis Schlafly's Battle Against the ERA and Women in the Military]</ref>

== Arguments against women in combat ==

*It is known that, by nature, women are weaker than men in regard to physical strenght and endurance. To hide this, military entry phyiscal requirements for women are greatly diminished in every country that allows women to serve. This of course means that, if a female soldier fights a male soldier in close quarters, she will inevitably succumb, just as a female martial arts practitioner tried to fight a male, equally trained, counterparts. While there are separate sport tournaments for women, this cannot be, obviously, replicated in war.
*An official scientific study of the British Ministry of Defence, published in May 2002, stated that only the top 1% of the female soldiers match the strenght, endurance and military quality of the average male soldier. Furthermore, the study also noticed how mixed-sex units experienced a lesser level of espirt de corps and [[unit cohesion]].<ref>http://www.mod.uk/NR/rdonlyres/A9925990-82C2-420F-AB04-7003768CEC02/0/womenaf_fullreport.pdf</ref>
*Also, the Royal Armed Forces found out that women enrolled in co-ed basic training course suffered far more injuries - expecially pelvis fractures<ref>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18419031</ref> - than men. An Army doctor was quoted as saying: "It is common sense that women are not as strong as men, and if you put them up against men they will suffer" and that "but if they are recruited to join the infantry and you put them into a combat situation they are obviously going to let the side down because they are not strong enough."<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/245450.stm</ref> Women were eight times as likely as men to be discharged from basic training due to overuse injuries. <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1738487.stm</ref>
*Women also anatomically have specifical hygienic needs that may not be met in war situations, thus leading to illnesses and distress on their part. These illnesses include, but are not limited to, urinary tract infections and gynecological disorders.<ref>http://www.4militarywomen.org/WIM09Presentations/Steele.pdf</ref> US Army regulations explicitly advise female soldiers to wash more often and with more water than men.<ref>http://hooah4health.com/deployment/docs/Female_Soldier_Readiness_Guide.pdf</ref>
*Female soldiers may deliberately get pregnant in order to avoid hazardous duty. If a man tried to render himself medically unsuitable for combat, he would be subjected to punishment. Aside from being morally questionable, this frequently used-trick can severely harm a unit's capability to operate by removing hardly replaceable skilled military personnel. For this reason, US Major General Anthony Cucolo, commander of the Northern [[Iraq]] zone, enacted in 2009 a policy prohibiting women from getting pregnanty, allegedly with the threat of "court martial" and "jail time."<ref>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1237333/Serving-U-S-troops-face-prison-fall-pregnant-active.html</ref> However, he was soon forced to back down when four [[Democrat]] Senators and the [[Feminism|Natonal Organization of Women]] fiercely attacked him on [[politically correct|political correctness]] grounds. The general reduced the penalty to a mere and symbolical "admonishment".<ref>http://abcnews.go.com/WN/general-backs-off-threat-court-martial-pregnant-soldiers/story?id=9399604#.TxBXDaVDCf4</ref>
*Men's instinct of protection towards women is ill-suited to war: Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's famous book "On Killing" stated that the Israeli Defence Force (IDF) banned women from combat for a tactical reason: when women got killed, wounded or anyway under danger, male soldiers would completely lose control over themselves in an uncontrollable, protective, instinctual aggression, severely degrading the unit's combat effectiveness. In the same book, Lt. Col. Grossman also noticed that Islamic fighters rarely if ever surrender to female soldiers. The same happens in today's wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, where civilians and fighters alike aren't intimidated by women.
*Israeli military historian Martin Van Creveld published a paper named "The Great Illusion: Women in Combat" where he explains, among many other arguments against women in combat, how hardly any "true" war around the world has been fought by women and that even legendary accounts of [[Soviet]] female soldiers are greatly inflated.<ref>http://people.reed.edu/~ahm/Courses/Reed-POL-359-2011-S3_WTW/Syllabus/EReadings/14.2/14.2.Creveld2000The-Great.pdf</ref>
*An "elephant in the room" of the US Military is the - alleged - rape rate of female soldiers: more than 30% of them - nearly one third, one out of three - experience some form of sexual harassment.<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8005198.stm</ref> This further gets out of control overseas, where a woman is far more likely to be raped by fellow soldiers than to be killed by enemy fire.

==See Also==
*[[Women_in_the_military#Effectiveness_of_Women_in_US_Military_Combat_Roles|Women in the Military]]

==References==
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[[Category:Military]][[Category:Feminism]]