Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

George Washington

2007-05-16T18:55:50Z

Stompum:

[[Image:washington-deleware.jpg|450px|right|frame]]
'''George Washington''' '''(February 22, 1732 - December 14, 1799)''' was the unanimously elected 1st President of the [[United States of America]] and the Commander-in-Chief in the [[Revolutionary War]].<ref>http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/gw1.html</ref> He was also a devout [[Christian]], with his adopted daughter once stating that "if you question Washington's faith, you may as well question whether or not he was a patriot."<ref>http://www.christiananswers.net/q-wall/wal-g011.html</ref>

Washington endeared himself to generations of Americans by first refusing to become a military dictator or king and then by voluntarily stepping aside as the leader of a prosperous nation. His precedent was voluntarily followed for 140 years. Towards that end, he sought to emulate the model of the citizen-soldier set by the Roman leader [[Cincinatus]], a comparison that is truly testament to Washington's greatness, and one that drew worldwide attention and acclaim, even in England, the nation he defeated.<ref>For Lord Byron's poem on the subject, hailing Washington as "the first, the last, the best, the Cincinnatus of the West," see http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/2001/byron0101.html.</ref> The archetype of Washington as the citizen-soldier has become part of America's collective idealization of citizenship, and is immortalized in [[New York city| New York city's]] [[Washington Square Arch]], which depicts Washington the soldier on the left, and Washington the statesman on the right.<ref>For photographic images, see http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GV/GV046WashingtonSquareArch.htm</ref>

He was born on February 22, 1732 to Augustine and Mary Washington. <ref> [[Encyclopedia of Presidents, George Washington]], Zachary Kent, Children's Press, 1986. </ref>

[[Image:George washington 3.jpg|left|thumb]]
Washington bravely led the colonists in revolt against the unjust British government, and in its place established a new government. Fighting against the vastly more powerful British army, Washington lost nearly every battle in the American Revolution until winning at Trenton and Princeton, and then lost most battles afterwards until ultimately prevailing at Yorktown with the help of a new contingent of French troops.

Washington frequently invoked Christianity in his work. As General, he commanded that chaplains be included in every regiment: "The General hopes and trusts, that every officer and man, will endeavour so to live, and act, as becomes a Christian Soldier, defending the dearest Rights and Liberties of his country."<ref>http://www.amerisearch.net/index.php?date=2004-02-22&view=View</ref>

Washington declared in his Inaugural Address: "It would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this first official act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of Providential agency." Comments such as this one have led many modern scholars to conclude that Washington was in fact a deist rather than a Christian.<ref>''Id.''</ref>

Washington declared in his Farewell Address: "Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports." <ref>[http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r106:4:./temp/~r1068i99iE:e2427: Reading of Washington's Farewell Address -- (Senate - February 22, 2000)]</ref>

On November 4, 1752, Washington was initiated into Freemasonry at Fredricksburg Lodge, Fredricksburg, Virginia. He was passed and raised at the same lodge, becoming a Master Mason on August 4, 1753. He later served as Worshipful Master of Alexandria Lodge No. 22 in Alexandria, Virginia. Upon his death in 1799, he was given a Masonic funeral at his wife's request.<ref>http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/biography/washington_g/washington_g.html</ref>

==Parson Weems and the cherry tree story==
In 1809, Mason Locke Weems (1756-1825), usually referred to as "Parson Weems," published a book entitled ''History of the Life and Death, Virtues and Exploits of General George Washington.'' This book contained many fanciful stories and half-truths, intended to present Washington as a larger-than-life figure. Perhaps the most famous passage in it is Weems' recounting of a story which he attributed to an unnamed "aged lady, who was a distant relative [of Washington], and, when a girl, spent much of her time in the [Washington] family:"

:"When George," said she, "was about six years old, he was made the wealthy master of a hatchet of which, like most little boys, he was immoderately fond, and was constantly going about chopping everything that came in his way. One day, in the garden, where he often amused himself hacking his mother's pea-sticks, he unluckily tried the edge of his hatchet on the body of a beautiful young English cherry-tree, which he barked so terribly, that I don't believe the tree ever got the better of it. The next morning the old gentleman, finding out what had befallen his tree, which, by the by, was a great favourite, came into the house; and with much warmth asked for the mischievous author, declaring at the same time, that he would not have taken five guineas for his tree. Nobody could tell him anything about it. Presently George and his hatchet made their appearance. "George," said his father," do you know who killed that beautiful little cherry tree yonder in the garden?" This was a tough question; and George staggered under it for a moment; but quickly recovered himself: and looking at his father, with the sweet face of youth brightened with the inexpressible charm of all- conquering truth, he bravely cried out, "I can't tell a lie, Pa; you know I can't tell a lie. I did cut it with my hatchet."—"Run to my arms, you dearest boy," cried his father in transports, "run to my arms; glad am I, George, that you killed my tree; for you have paid me for it a thousand fold. Such an act of heroism in my son is more worth than a thousand trees, though blossomed with silver, and their fruits of purest gold."<ref>British spellings are as they appear in the original text.</ref><ref>Weems, George Mason (1918), ''History of the Life and Death, Virtues and Exploits of General George Washington.'' [http://xroads.virginia.edu/~CAP/gw/chap2.html Chapter 2: Birth and Education], online at University of Virginia]</ref><ref>[http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC22316477&id=6tc56rgYE1YC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=mason+locke+weems&as_brr=1#PPP13,M1 The Life of George Washington] with Curious Anecdotes Equally Honourable to Himself, and Exemplary to his Young Countrymen. 1837, facsimile page images at Google Books</ref>

(Notice that Weems did not represent Washington as calling it "my ''little'' hatchet;" that appears to be a "familiar misquotation.")

In a October 2000 survey of 132 prominent professors of history, law, and political science, President Washington was grouped in the "Great" group, ranked 1st, with a mean score of 4.92 out of 5.00. <ref>Presidential Leadership: Rating the Best and the Worst in the White House (New York, Wall Street Journal Book, 2004)</ref>

==Quotes from George Washington==

*Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.

*If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.

*The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion

*Government is not reason, it is not eloquence. It is force, and like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

*Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principles.

*There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily.

*Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence.
----

'''Sources:''' <references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Washington, George}}
[[Category:Military Commanders]]
[[Category:Presidents of the United States]]

Talk:Jerry Falwell

2007-05-15T20:37:13Z

Stompum:

This page needs improvement to do justice to Rev. Falwell.

I rolled back the liberal gossip about Falwell and Rev. Moon. It's nothing more than a smear effort of the sort we don't allow under our [[rules]]. Falwell is not an adherent of Rev. Moon's church and Falwell is entitled to do business just like everyone else. The smear was unsupported by a credible resource.

Be fair to Christians and everyone else here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:16, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

:Also I'm not sure that rotten.com is a "reliable" source.[[User:Rob Pommer| Cracker]]<sub>[[User_talk:Rob_Pommer|talk]]</sub> 22:18, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

: My addition to this article is based on fact, not opinion. Critics do indeed attack Falwell's connection the Unification Church. This is not an attack or "smear" on Christians in general but a verifiable fact about the controversy surrounding a public figure. Opposing viewpoints supported by citations are welcome, but this is tantamount to censorhip. Rotten has an admitted liberal bias but all their info in this instance is credible and independently verifiable.

--[[User:Hektor|Hektor]] 22:22, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm going to edit this article over the next couple days. Falwell has been a tremendous educator, and his efforts deserve more than this. Stay tuned! --[[User:Thammersmith|Thammersmith]] 21:12, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

:I'm not sure why my changes were reverted. Jerry Falwell has ties to Republican causes and the Moral Majority is a part of the Religious Right, not the Religious right. For instance the Christian Coalition is part of the Religious Right as well. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 01:58, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

(Belated question) How is it a "smear" to link Falwell and Moon? Has [[Rev. Moon]] done something wrong? (Apart from not accepting [[Young Earth creationism]], I mean ;-) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 16:30, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

==Just passed away==
CCN just reported his death today.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 13:39, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Someone commented out his support for apartheid. Not sure why as it's factual and documented. I removed the comment block around it...apologies for the double edit.

: Jerry Falwell was frequently misquoted and misinterpreted by anti-Christian enemies. Don't expect any unsourced, biased and misleading information, motivated by anti-Christian animus, to be allowed here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:20, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

==South Africa and apartheid==

Time magazine, Monday, Sep. 02, 1985:
*Falwell opposes apartheid, but professed faith that Botha will dismantle the system eventually, if only everyone is patient. [http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,959695,00.html]

I stand corrected. I'll update changes to reflect this. Stompum
*Page is locked. Mods please remove the line about Falwell's support for Apartheid.

Talk:Jerry Falwell

2007-05-15T20:35:53Z

Stompum: /* South Africa and apartheid */

Talk:Jerry Falwell

2007-05-15T20:11:35Z

Stompum: /* Just passed away */

Jerry Falwell

2007-05-15T20:10:27Z

Stompum:

Jerry Falwell (August 11, 1933 – May 15, 2007) was a politically active [[United States|American]] evangelical, and one of the biggest influences on the conservative movement in the late 20th century. Falwell was born on August 11, 1933 along with his twin brother, Gene. Jerry and Gene were the youngest children in a family of 5. Young Jerry Falwell was recognized for his incredible intellect at a young age, skipping the second grade at Mountain View Elementary School. He held firm on this intelligence, even finding a way to obtain his driver's license at the age of 13 - 3 years before he was legally eligible.

During his teen years, Falwell excelled in athletic endeavors. During high school Falwell played [[football]], [[basketball]] and [[baseball]]. While he does not continue with these sports to this day, he still values athletics for their numerous benefits: teamwork, coordination, fitness and overall health.

Dr. Falwell became a committed Christian on January 20, 1952 while enrolled at [[Lynchburg College]]. He bought his first [[Bible]] the day after his [[baptism]], and still carries it with him wherever he goes. After graduating Lynchburg College, Falwell enrolled in [[Baptist Bible College]] in [[Missouri]], later joining the vaulted rank of [[clergy]]. [http://www.falwell.com/meet_dr_falwell.php] In 1956, he founded Thomas Road Baptist Church in an abandoned bottling plant, [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/jerry_falwell;_ylt=Av1Rxhr4jqj67i6szuF7386s0NUE] and today the church has 22,000 members.

In 1971, Falwell founded [[Liberty University]] in Lynchburg, [[Virginia]]. The University provides an opportunity for students to gain the benefits of a rich and diverse academic environment while simultaneously offering the opportunity to become closer to [[God]].

In June of 1979, Dr. Falwell organized the [[Moral Majority]]. This organization is composed of over 100,000 [[priests]], [[pastors]] and [[rabbis]], and over 7 million conservative, religious Americans. The Moral Majority, also known as the [[Religious Right]], organized a series of voting drives and political demonstrations to advance their conservative point of view and enhance the moral and religious attitudes of the nation. The Moral Majority is perhaps best known for their work in selecting [[California]] [[Governor]] [[Ronald Reagan]] to run for [[president]] for 1980, and registering millions of voters to act on his behalf. [http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6921]

In the 1980s Jerry Falwell was an outspoken supporter of the Apartheid regime in South Africa. In 1985 he went to South Africa and encouraged Christians to buy gold Krugerrands in support of the white minority government. He drew the a great deal of criticism when he called Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu a phony. He subsequently apologized for that remark and claimed that he had misspoken.

Reverend Falwell was married to Mrs. Macel Falwell. The two tied the proverbial knot on April 12, 1958. The couple has three children: Jerry Jr., Jonathan and Jeannie. Jerry is currently an [[attorney]] and Vice-Chancellor at Liberty University. Jonathan is an attorney and pastor in Lynchburg, Virginia. Jeannie is a [[surgeon]] in Virginia.

Falwell is best known for his beliefs in the benefit of public debate. At [[Liberty University]], he hosts an annual undergraduate [[debate]] [[tournament]] that attracts schools all across the country. At the tournament, he provides the students with a [[banquet]] and allows the debaters to participate in a "question and answer" session with him. Falwell's [[rhetorical]] prowess shines at such events, as he systematically grounds his [[left]]-of-center critics. Falwell also regularly appears on news broadcasts, preaching the word of [[God]] and his [[conservative]] point of view. He refuses to back down from a position that may be considered unpopular.

Falwell is well known outside of Evangelical circles for his claim, made on "The 700 Club" on September 13th of 2001 that it was not just [[al Qaeda]] that was to blame for the terrorist attacks of [[9/11]]. He said, ""I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" Falwell immediately apologized for the statement. <ref>CNN article on the statement[http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/]</ref>

Reverend Falwell passed away on May 15, 2007.

==Reference==
<references/>

[[Category:Religious people|Falwell, Jerry]]

Jerry Falwell

2007-05-15T20:09:41Z

Stompum:

Jerry Falwell (August 11, 1933 – May 15, 2007) was a politically active [[United States|American]] evangelical, and one of the biggest influences on the conservative movement in the late 20th century. Falwell was born on August 11, 1933 along with his twin brother, Gene. Jerry and Gene were the youngest children in a family of 5. Young Jerry Falwell was recognized for his incredible intellect at a young age, skipping the second grade at Mountain View Elementary School. He held firm on this intelligence, even finding a way to obtain his driver's license at the age of 13 - 3 years before he was legally eligible.

During his teen years, Falwell excelled in athletic endeavors. During high school Falwell played [[football]], [[basketball]] and [[baseball]]. While he does not continue with these sports to this day, he still values athletics for their numerous benefits: teamwork, coordination, fitness and overall health.

Dr. Falwell became a committed Christian on January 20, 1952 while enrolled at [[Lynchburg College]]. He bought his first [[Bible]] the day after his [[baptism]], and still carries it with him wherever he goes. After graduating Lynchburg College, Falwell enrolled in [[Baptist Bible College]] in [[Missouri]], later joining the vaulted rank of [[clergy]]. [http://www.falwell.com/meet_dr_falwell.php] In 1956, he founded Thomas Road Baptist Church in an abandoned bottling plant, [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/jerry_falwell;_ylt=Av1Rxhr4jqj67i6szuF7386s0NUE] and today the church has 22,000 members.

In the 1980s Jerry Falwell was an outspoken supporter of the Apartheid regime in South Africa. In 1985 he went to South Africa and encouraged Christians to buy gold Krugerrands in support of the white minority government. He drew the a great deal of criticism when he called Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu a phony. He subsequently apologized for that remark and claimed that he had misspoken.

In 1971, Falwell founded [[Liberty University]] in Lynchburg, [[Virginia]]. The University provides an opportunity for students to gain the benefits of a rich and diverse academic environment while simultaneously offering the opportunity to become closer to [[God]].

In June of 1979, Dr. Falwell organized the [[Moral Majority]]. This organization is composed of over 100,000 [[priests]], [[pastors]] and [[rabbis]], and over 7 million conservative, religious Americans. The Moral Majority, also known as the [[Religious Right]], organized a series of voting drives and political demonstrations to advance their conservative point of view and enhance the moral and religious attitudes of the nation. The Moral Majority is perhaps best known for their work in selecting [[California]] [[Governor]] [[Ronald Reagan]] to run for [[president]] for 1980, and registering millions of voters to act on his behalf. [http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6921]



Reverend Falwell was married to Mrs. Macel Falwell. The two tied the proverbial knot on April 12, 1958. The couple has three children: Jerry Jr., Jonathan and Jeannie. Jerry is currently an [[attorney]] and Vice-Chancellor at Liberty University. Jonathan is an attorney and pastor in Lynchburg, Virginia. Jeannie is a [[surgeon]] in Virginia.

Falwell is best known for his beliefs in the benefit of public debate. At [[Liberty University]], he hosts an annual undergraduate [[debate]] [[tournament]] that attracts schools all across the country. At the tournament, he provides the students with a [[banquet]] and allows the debaters to participate in a "question and answer" session with him. Falwell's [[rhetorical]] prowess shines at such events, as he systematically grounds his [[left]]-of-center critics. Falwell also regularly appears on news broadcasts, preaching the word of [[God]] and his [[conservative]] point of view. He refuses to back down from a position that may be considered unpopular.

Falwell is well known outside of Evangelical circles for his claim, made on "The 700 Club" on September 13th of 2001 that it was not just [[al Qaeda]] that was to blame for the terrorist attacks of [[9/11]]. He said, ""I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" Falwell immediately apologized for the statement. <ref>CNN article on the statement[http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/]</ref>

Reverend Falwell passed away on May 15, 2007.

==Reference==
<references/>

[[Category:Religious people|Falwell, Jerry]]

Jerry Falwell

2007-05-15T18:41:47Z

Stompum:

'''Jerry Falwell''' was a politically active [[United States|American]] evangelical, and one of the biggest influences on the conservative movement in the late 20th century. Falwell was born on August 11, 1933 along with his twin brother, Gene. Jerry and Gene were the youngest children in a family of 5. Young Jerry Falwell was recognized for his incredible intellect at a young age, skipping the second grade at Mountain View Elementary School. He held firm on this intelligence, even finding a way to obtain his driver's license at the age of 13 - 3 years before he was legally eligible.

During his teen years, Falwell excelled in athletic endeavors. During high school Falwell played [[football]], [[basketball]] and [[baseball]]. While he does not continue with these sports to this day, he still values athletics for their numerous benefits: teamwork, coordination, fitness and overall health.

Dr. Falwell became a committed Christian on January 20, 1952 while enrolled at [[Lynchburg College]]. He bought his first [[Bible]] the day after his [[baptism]], and still carries it with him wherever he goes. After graduating Lynchburg College, Falwell enrolled in [[Baptist Bible College]] in [[Missouri]], later joining the vaulted rank of [[clergy]]. [http://www.falwell.com/meet_dr_falwell.php] In 1956, he founded Thomas Road Baptist Church in an abandoned bottling plant, [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/jerry_falwell;_ylt=Av1Rxhr4jqj67i6szuF7386s0NUE] and today the church has 22,000 members.

In 1971, Falwell founded [[Liberty University]] in Lynchburg, [[Virginia]]. The University provides an opportunity for students to gain the benefits of a rich and diverse academic environment while simultaneously offering the opportunity to become closer to [[God]].

In June of 1979, Dr. Falwell organized the [[Moral Majority]]. This organization is composed of over 100,000 [[priests]], [[pastors]] and [[rabbis]], and over 7 million conservative, religious Americans. The Moral Majority, also known as the [[Religious Right]], organized a series of voting drives and political demonstrations to advance their conservative point of view and enhance the moral and religious attitudes of the nation. The Moral Majority is perhaps best known for their work in selecting [[California]] [[Governor]] [[Ronald Reagan]] to run for [[president]] for 1980, and registering millions of voters to act on his behalf. [http://www.liberty.edu/index.cfm?PID=6921]

In the 1980s Jerry Falwell was an outspoken supporter of the Apartheid regime in South Africa. In 1985 he went to South Africa and encouraged Christians to buy gold Krugerrands in support of the white minority government. He drew the a great deal of criticism when he called Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu a phony. He subsequently apologized for that remark and claimed that he had misspoken.

Reverend Falwell is married to Mrs. Macel Falwell. The two tied the proverbial knot on April 12, 1958. The couple has three children: Jerry Jr., Jonathan and Jeannie. Jerry is currently an [[attorney]] and Vice-Chancellor at Liberty University. Jonathan is an attorney and pastor in Lynchburg, Virginia. Jeannie is a [[surgeon]] in Virginia.

Falwell is best known for his beliefs in the benefit of public debate. At [[Liberty University]], he hosts an annual undergraduate [[debate]] [[tournament]] that attracts schools all across the country. At the tournament, he provides the students with a [[banquet]] and allows the debaters to participate in a "question and answer" session with him. Falwell's [[rhetorical]] prowess shines at such events, as he systematically grounds his [[left]]-of-center critics. Falwell also regularly appears on news broadcasts, preaching the word of [[God]] and his [[conservative]] point of view. He refuses to back down from a position that may be considered unpopular.

Falwell is well known outside of Evangelical circles for his claim, made on "The 700 Club" on September 13th of 2001 that it was not just [[al Qaeda]] that was to blame for the terrorist attacks of [[9/11]]. He said, ""I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'" Falwell immediately apologized for the statement. <ref>CNN article on the statement[http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/14/Falwell.apology/]</ref>

Reverend Falwell passed away on May 15, 2007.

==Reference==
<references/>

[[Category:Religious people|Falwell, Jerry]]

Debate:Why is a perpetual motion machine impossible?

2007-04-27T03:14:51Z

Stompum: /* Machines that simply "move" forever, or a very long time */

==Machines that simply "move" forever, or a very long time==

*The phrase "perpetual motion" is old-fashioned language. It does not mean simply something that stays in motion forever. This might be theoretically possible—it at least does not violate conservation of energy. But the phrase "perpetual motion" uses "motion" in an older sense to mean motor or engine, and it means something that can deliver energy—to run an automobile, for example—without requiring any external source of energy, such as gasoline. It means something for nothing.

:'''COUNTER:''' By "perpetual motion machine" I mean simply what the term says: remain in motion perpetually. I'm not proposing running "something for nothing," which is obviously impossible. I'm proposing running something indefinitely, like the clock you describe. Why is that impossible?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:48, 31 December 2006 (EST)

::I don't think it '''is''' impossible. I don't understand enough about the entropy and the second law of thermodynamics to be absolutely sure. And the Clock of the Long Now isn't expected to run forwever, just for ten thousand years.

:::By the definition of 'perpetually moving' it is indeed possible: the simple hydrogen atom becomes a working prototype. But the term is generally used to describe a machine that violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics: in any closed system useful energy will dissipate. Indeed any engine more efficient than a Carnot Engine is by definition a perpetual motion machine [http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/carnot.html (Carnot Cycle)]. [[User:Airor|Airor]] 22 Feb 2007 2:22PM PST

::The "perpetual motion machines" or ''perpetuum mobiles''—the gadgets that the patent office refuses to review—all were intended to generate energy from nothing. They got to be a problem because inventors were constantly claiming to have found it and lining up investors. Often there was deliberate fraud, but sometimes there was just innocent ignorance involved. Usually there was either a hidden source of energy (e.g. in frauds, like the Keeley Motor) or the inventor believe he was producing energy when he was just releasing stored energy.

*For an interesting example of an attempt to build a machine that will stay in motion for a long time, see [http://www.longnow.org/projects/clock/ The Clock of the Long Now]. This is a serious effort to encourage long-term thinking by solving the engineering ''and social'' problems involved in building a clock will actually run for ten thousand years.

:* a long time is not forever.

*It is not impossible becuase The Lord could make a perpetual motion device if he so wished it. --[[User:Cranky Joe|Cranky Joe]] 00:32, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:*Hum... Could he also create a rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?--[[User:Sm355|Sm355]] 17:07, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

:*I do think that the second law of thermodynamics states "The total entropy of any isolated thermodynamic system tends to increase over time, approaching a maximum value.", which essentially means that every closed system will eventually lose the potential for energy until it will reach the closest it can reach above absolute zero without actually reaching it (reaching absolute zero violates the third law). I personally have no idea as to whether this means perpetual motion is impossible - although it does essentially mean a practical application for perpertual motion is, as the energy released would be so insignificant that it could not be put to any forseeable use -- [[User: ShikamaBlue|Shikamablue]]

* It is possible to establish a flow of current in a superconducting ring forever, but that's all you get, and if you draw some of the current off to do useful work, there's just less in the ring. [[User:Teresita|Teresita]] 22:05, 7 April 2007 (EDT)
:* I'm not sure that a superconducting ring qualifies as a machine. A machine must do work and I can't think of any work that such a ring would do.

* If you draw off any energy from a pmm, and use it to power something, you would be increasing the amount of energy in the universe - thus creating something from nothing -> breaks 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. [[User:Wikinterpreter|Wikinterpreter]]