Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Judaism

2008-05-20T02:30:51Z

QuantumDot: /* G-d */

What a so long digression about Mel Gibson. It's said that his father went to concentration camp during WWII. What do we care ? Jews have been exterminated by the Nazi during this war. It's absolutely out of context and interest. The pig talk is as well without any interest, empty and absolutely false.

I think what you read was vandalism. It's no longer there. --[[User:David R|<<-David R->>]] 16:33, 11 March 2007 (EDT)

This article should be merged with [[Jews]] and [[Jew]].--[[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 17:21, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

== Judaism ==

It seems to me that this article should contain information about Judaism. The long passage about Pontius Pilate and the Sanhedron is still here, and it is many times longer than the brief stub which actually is about Judaism. Also, the line about circumcision is out of context here -- in a longer, more detailed article, it could be worked in along with related issues.

Since [[Abraham]] is claimed by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as a Patriarch, this issue probably should be covered in a separate article aboout him, rather than being the second thing mentioned in an article about Judaism.

I hope we can make this entry as informative and accurate as possible.

[[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 20:10, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Nobody seems to have mentioned that Christ was a jew. It's an important part of both our histories. Toryboy

:: Yes Boethius, I must agree with you – it might well profit us that an article headed "Judaism" "should contain information on Judaism" as you propose. But Toryboy, I can't see how you missed (and I quote) "Though Jesus is said to have been Jewish..." And this is my query, why the qualification "said to be". I mean is the Pope "reputed by some to have a connection with the Catholic Church"? What is going on here? His Mother was Jewish, even if the question of the exact nationality of his Dad is perhaps best left to the Jesuits. Regardless, Jewishness is conferred via the maternal line, so he is 100 per cent kosher in that regard, Does "Jesus was a Jew" sound perhaps a little infra-dig, just a trifle abrupt, mayhap?
mylesP myles325@yahoo.com.au March 31, 2007

:::Interestingly enough, the father’s ethnicity does matter to many Jews. For the purposes of immigration to Israel you are quite right—maternal linage is enough. However, inter-religious marriage is and was deeply frowned upon. Deuteronomy 23:1-8 is one of the relevant text—because the Rabbis believe in “building a wall around the Torah” it is interpreted to forbid marriage to any non-Jew and the child of any such marriage is understood to be illegitimate and therefore not fit to enter into the congregation (and therefore not Jewish). So, one may be the child of a Jewish mother and still not a Jew if the father is not a Jew as well.--[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 10:50, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Not really...Jesus is an important part of Christian theology, but not Judaism. Claiming to be God's son isn't that special in a religion that applies that term to all of humanity. --[[User:M|M]]

But Jesus was a Jew and was a devout Jew practicing all the laws and obeying the commandments. --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 09:20, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

:Yes, but there have been millions of devout Jews; that doesn't make them all historical figures. Jesus wasn't a scholar or a sage like Maimonides; he's of historical importance only to Christianity and Islam, not Judaism.--[[User:M|M]] 08:33, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

I was actually rather offended that "circumcision" was referred to as "mutilation" on this page. The majority of white Americans are circumcised, as are most Jews, and our President, George W. Bush, recently allotted funding to promote circumcision in Africa, in recognition of the fact that circumcised penises are healthier, and (some would argue) more aesthetically pleasing. Please treat circumcision with respect: it is a proper and beneficial surgery. [[User:Isiah24]]

I am interested to hear that your President thinks highly enough of "aesthetically pleasing" black African penises to invest funds to ensure whole generations to come are properly endowed. Who would have thought that a leader of the Republicans would have supported a policy that would certainly have been rejected by the Gay Liberation Front as being a little too radical? mylesP email: myles325@yahoo.com.au

:While I agree with the benefits of circumcision, it is still debated whether it is healthier and more beneficial. Nevertheless, I agree that a better term can be used to describe circumcision. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 17:07, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:How about topping the asparagus, trimming the cigar, uncowling the capuchin monk?... mylesP myles325@yahoo.com.au

:Circumcision, if beneficial, is beneficial in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS among promiscuous people who refuse to use condoms. Abstinence until marriage and monogamy after marriage (assuming your husband/wife does the same) is a much safer way to prevent HIV/AIDS. Baring that, condoms are much more effective than circumcision. So Americans, especially those raised properly, have no “health reason” to be circumcised.
:So, health concerns aside, what would you call having a doctor cut off part of your son’s penis—sure, it’s a religious obligation of the Jews, but the New Testament is quite clear on the subject of circumcision (see Acts 15) circumcision is unnecessary. An unnecessary surgery that removes a very sensitive piece of flesh and that has the potential to castrate a child entirely sounds like mutilation to me.--[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 15:15, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

== Unexpected deletions ==

I wish that Ezra Wax and Mountain Dew would explain why they deleted most of the article about Judaism, of which I was the major author. The current version is now far too sort and now lacks important information which was there in previous versions. I realize some of the additions to this article were in need of work, but this doesn't explain deleting the entire article and replacing it with a dumbed-down version.

[[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 18:56, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Hey, thanks M (whoever you are), the current version is a great step forward, I think. [[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 11:08, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

:You're welcome! I just hate seeing inaccurate info. --[[User:M|M]] 08:33, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

==Preposterous examples of stupidity==

That the Jews are descendants of Satan, and that the Israelites are the ancestors of the Celts and Germans. Has this been deliberately left in the article, or is it an oversight? The thing I can never really understand is anti-Semitic Christians - Jesus was a Jew and Jews wrote the entire New Testament (let alone the old). [[User:Dorpfeld|Dorpfeld]] 12:34, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
:Should there be something telling how the Jews will be converted to Christianity in the end, according to Revelations. [[User:LilGeorgiaPeach81|Mellie]] 15:49, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

That is a disgustingly selfish and misguided view. So what if someone doesn't agree with what we think? We should learn to accept other people for who they are.

== some more added ==

I added some more to the page, hopefully more of a introduction. I'll keep working on it to get a good blurb of judaism.

== Jews for Jesus? ==

I really fail to see why there is a link to "Jews for Jesus" in this entry; someone who claims to be a Jew for Jesus simply is not Jewish.
There is a term for anyone who views Jesus as the messiah and believes in the Holy Trinity - that term is Christian.--[[User:M|M]] 04:46, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

To be fair, so-called Messianic Jews really do consider themselves Jewish, and many started off Jewish, and retain the cultural trapping of Judaism. In other words, they are much like the first Christians, simply a sect of Jews. While not recognized by most mainstream Jews as being "jewish", they self-identify as jewish. For my part, I think they should call themselves something different, like "judeo-christians" or something, but that's neither here nor there.[[User:Palmd001|PalMD]] 16:49, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Messianic Jews are not Jews for the purpose of any official Jewish function. I can cite a ton of stuff on this; just let me ask my girlfriend, but in the meantime I'm deleting the language or rephrasing it. Oh, also, JFJ were formed by an evangelical Christian minister for the express purpose of converting Jews while convincing them they weren't being converted. True story.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 16:57, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

=="Nation'==
*''Jews became an independent nation when Moses (Moshe) led them out of Egypt''
Why is the word "independent" used here? And what are we to make of the Genesis 12:2, God speaking to Abraham, "I will make of thee a great nation"? Didn't Israel become a nation with the birth of Isaac, more specifically a "great nation" with the birth of Jacob (Israel)'s 12 sons, the Patriarchs? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:56, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

:I would think probably because a nation enslaved cannot be referred to as a free nation? In the Seder service, it's said that the Hebrews became "a nation, great, mighty and numerous" amidst the Egyptians.--[[User:M|M]] 17:26, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

==Suggestions==
The article should be divided into sections. It'd be good to add photos. [[User:Ylmw21|Ylmw21]] 23:25, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

==Menorah==
Why was the menorah replaced witht the Star of David? Thank you. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:27, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

== G-d ==

Could someone change the 'G-d' in the last paragraph to 'God'? It is silly to use God's name five times in the page, then wrap it up with a 'G-d'. [[User:BrianJackson|BrianJackson]] 00:23, 21 July 2007 (EDT)

:Then G-d should be written as such throughout the article. It is a Jewish Article. [[User:AniChai|AniChai]] 22:18, 12 January 2008 (EST)

::But it's a Christian wiki and country.

==Ethnicities===
I wish to expand of these but it is locked.
[[User:AniChai|AniChai]] 22:18, 12 January 2008 (EST)

== Criticism Section ==

What do people think? The main goal would be to acknowledge that Jews are not saved without appearing anti-semitic. We could also mention the general permissiveness of Judaism, the higher rates of secularization, disputing that Jesus was the messiah, circumcision, Purim, etc. This would not be a section to allege stupid conspiracy theories ("Jews control such and such") or to criticize Israel.

Talk:Judaism

2008-05-20T02:29:22Z

QuantumDot: Criticism Section

What a so long digression about Mel Gibson. It's said that his father went to concentration camp during WWII. What do we care ? Jews have been exterminated by the Nazi during this war. It's absolutely out of context and interest. The pig talk is as well without any interest, empty and absolutely false.

I think what you read was vandalism. It's no longer there. --[[User:David R|<<-David R->>]] 16:33, 11 March 2007 (EDT)

This article should be merged with [[Jews]] and [[Jew]].--[[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 17:21, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

== Judaism ==

It seems to me that this article should contain information about Judaism. The long passage about Pontius Pilate and the Sanhedron is still here, and it is many times longer than the brief stub which actually is about Judaism. Also, the line about circumcision is out of context here -- in a longer, more detailed article, it could be worked in along with related issues.

Since [[Abraham]] is claimed by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as a Patriarch, this issue probably should be covered in a separate article aboout him, rather than being the second thing mentioned in an article about Judaism.

I hope we can make this entry as informative and accurate as possible.

[[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 20:10, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Nobody seems to have mentioned that Christ was a jew. It's an important part of both our histories. Toryboy

:: Yes Boethius, I must agree with you – it might well profit us that an article headed "Judaism" "should contain information on Judaism" as you propose. But Toryboy, I can't see how you missed (and I quote) "Though Jesus is said to have been Jewish..." And this is my query, why the qualification "said to be". I mean is the Pope "reputed by some to have a connection with the Catholic Church"? What is going on here? His Mother was Jewish, even if the question of the exact nationality of his Dad is perhaps best left to the Jesuits. Regardless, Jewishness is conferred via the maternal line, so he is 100 per cent kosher in that regard, Does "Jesus was a Jew" sound perhaps a little infra-dig, just a trifle abrupt, mayhap?
mylesP myles325@yahoo.com.au March 31, 2007

:::Interestingly enough, the father’s ethnicity does matter to many Jews. For the purposes of immigration to Israel you are quite right—maternal linage is enough. However, inter-religious marriage is and was deeply frowned upon. Deuteronomy 23:1-8 is one of the relevant text—because the Rabbis believe in “building a wall around the Torah” it is interpreted to forbid marriage to any non-Jew and the child of any such marriage is understood to be illegitimate and therefore not fit to enter into the congregation (and therefore not Jewish). So, one may be the child of a Jewish mother and still not a Jew if the father is not a Jew as well.--[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 10:50, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Not really...Jesus is an important part of Christian theology, but not Judaism. Claiming to be God's son isn't that special in a religion that applies that term to all of humanity. --[[User:M|M]]

But Jesus was a Jew and was a devout Jew practicing all the laws and obeying the commandments. --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 09:20, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

:Yes, but there have been millions of devout Jews; that doesn't make them all historical figures. Jesus wasn't a scholar or a sage like Maimonides; he's of historical importance only to Christianity and Islam, not Judaism.--[[User:M|M]] 08:33, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

I was actually rather offended that "circumcision" was referred to as "mutilation" on this page. The majority of white Americans are circumcised, as are most Jews, and our President, George W. Bush, recently allotted funding to promote circumcision in Africa, in recognition of the fact that circumcised penises are healthier, and (some would argue) more aesthetically pleasing. Please treat circumcision with respect: it is a proper and beneficial surgery. [[User:Isiah24]]

I am interested to hear that your President thinks highly enough of "aesthetically pleasing" black African penises to invest funds to ensure whole generations to come are properly endowed. Who would have thought that a leader of the Republicans would have supported a policy that would certainly have been rejected by the Gay Liberation Front as being a little too radical? mylesP email: myles325@yahoo.com.au

:While I agree with the benefits of circumcision, it is still debated whether it is healthier and more beneficial. Nevertheless, I agree that a better term can be used to describe circumcision. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 17:07, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:How about topping the asparagus, trimming the cigar, uncowling the capuchin monk?... mylesP myles325@yahoo.com.au

:Circumcision, if beneficial, is beneficial in preventing the spread of HIV/AIDS among promiscuous people who refuse to use condoms. Abstinence until marriage and monogamy after marriage (assuming your husband/wife does the same) is a much safer way to prevent HIV/AIDS. Baring that, condoms are much more effective than circumcision. So Americans, especially those raised properly, have no “health reason” to be circumcised.
:So, health concerns aside, what would you call having a doctor cut off part of your son’s penis—sure, it’s a religious obligation of the Jews, but the New Testament is quite clear on the subject of circumcision (see Acts 15) circumcision is unnecessary. An unnecessary surgery that removes a very sensitive piece of flesh and that has the potential to castrate a child entirely sounds like mutilation to me.--[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 15:15, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

== Unexpected deletions ==

I wish that Ezra Wax and Mountain Dew would explain why they deleted most of the article about Judaism, of which I was the major author. The current version is now far too sort and now lacks important information which was there in previous versions. I realize some of the additions to this article were in need of work, but this doesn't explain deleting the entire article and replacing it with a dumbed-down version.

[[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 18:56, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Hey, thanks M (whoever you are), the current version is a great step forward, I think. [[User:Boethius|Boethius]] 11:08, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

:You're welcome! I just hate seeing inaccurate info. --[[User:M|M]] 08:33, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

==Preposterous examples of stupidity==

That the Jews are descendants of Satan, and that the Israelites are the ancestors of the Celts and Germans. Has this been deliberately left in the article, or is it an oversight? The thing I can never really understand is anti-Semitic Christians - Jesus was a Jew and Jews wrote the entire New Testament (let alone the old). [[User:Dorpfeld|Dorpfeld]] 12:34, 21 March 2007 (EDT)
:Should there be something telling how the Jews will be converted to Christianity in the end, according to Revelations. [[User:LilGeorgiaPeach81|Mellie]] 15:49, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

That is a disgustingly selfish and misguided view. So what if someone doesn't agree with what we think? We should learn to accept other people for who they are.

== some more added ==

I added some more to the page, hopefully more of a introduction. I'll keep working on it to get a good blurb of judaism.

== Jews for Jesus? ==

I really fail to see why there is a link to "Jews for Jesus" in this entry; someone who claims to be a Jew for Jesus simply is not Jewish.
There is a term for anyone who views Jesus as the messiah and believes in the Holy Trinity - that term is Christian.--[[User:M|M]] 04:46, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

To be fair, so-called Messianic Jews really do consider themselves Jewish, and many started off Jewish, and retain the cultural trapping of Judaism. In other words, they are much like the first Christians, simply a sect of Jews. While not recognized by most mainstream Jews as being "jewish", they self-identify as jewish. For my part, I think they should call themselves something different, like "judeo-christians" or something, but that's neither here nor there.[[User:Palmd001|PalMD]] 16:49, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

Messianic Jews are not Jews for the purpose of any official Jewish function. I can cite a ton of stuff on this; just let me ask my girlfriend, but in the meantime I'm deleting the language or rephrasing it. Oh, also, JFJ were formed by an evangelical Christian minister for the express purpose of converting Jews while convincing them they weren't being converted. True story.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 16:57, 27 March 2007 (EDT)

=="Nation'==
*''Jews became an independent nation when Moses (Moshe) led them out of Egypt''
Why is the word "independent" used here? And what are we to make of the Genesis 12:2, God speaking to Abraham, "I will make of thee a great nation"? Didn't Israel become a nation with the birth of Isaac, more specifically a "great nation" with the birth of Jacob (Israel)'s 12 sons, the Patriarchs? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:56, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

:I would think probably because a nation enslaved cannot be referred to as a free nation? In the Seder service, it's said that the Hebrews became "a nation, great, mighty and numerous" amidst the Egyptians.--[[User:M|M]] 17:26, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

==Suggestions==
The article should be divided into sections. It'd be good to add photos. [[User:Ylmw21|Ylmw21]] 23:25, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

==Menorah==
Why was the menorah replaced witht the Star of David? Thank you. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:27, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

== G-d ==

Could someone change the 'G-d' in the last paragraph to 'God'? It is silly to use God's name five times in the page, then wrap it up with a 'G-d'. [[User:BrianJackson|BrianJackson]] 00:23, 21 July 2007 (EDT)
Then G-d should be written as such throughout the article. It is a Jewish Article. [[User:AniChai|AniChai]] 22:18, 12 January 2008 (EST)

==Ethnicities===
I wish to expand of these but it is locked.
[[User:AniChai|AniChai]] 22:18, 12 January 2008 (EST)

== Criticism Section ==

What do people think? The main goal would be to acknowledge that Jews are not saved without appearing anti-semitic. We could also mention the general permissiveness of Judaism, the higher rates of secularization, disputing that Jesus was the messiah, circumcision, Purim, etc. This would not be a section to allege stupid conspiracy theories ("Jews control such and such") or to criticize Israel.

Liberal denial

2008-05-20T02:22:03Z

QuantumDot: Missing content on socialized medicine

'''Liberal denial''' is the tendency of [[liberals]] to go into "denial mode" and conceal, deny or censor the truth for ideological reasons. A list of the top ten ''common'' instances of [[liberal denial]] are the following:

# [[liberals]] deny they are [[liberal]], and that most of the media are [[liberal]]
# [[Hollywood values]], [[professor values]] and general [[liberal]] values have consequences for those who believe in them, and also for innocent victims
# the intellectual justification for [[Hitler]]'s attempt to build a master Aryan race was the [[theory of evolution]]
# [[liberals]] have censored [[prayer]] in [[public school]]<ref>A [[public school]] student who once "tape recorded a teacher making religious remarks to his students" to complain about it then later objected to a textbook explaining how prayer is censored from [[public school]] schools by court decisions. [http://abcnews.go.com/US/WireStory?id=4614012]</ref>
# a woman significantly reduces her risk of breast cancer by having children rather than [[abortions]]
# most promiscuous people carry sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), and those STDs cause infertility
# the strident promoters of [[evolution]] generally have weaker credentials than advocates of [[intelligent design]]<ref>See, e.g., [[Richard Sternberg]]</ref>
# college faculties at nearly every school are completely dominated by [[liberals]], and have virtually no [[conservatives]]
# [[homosexuality]] shortens lifespan for a variety of reasons
# more than 80% of child molesters are pornography addicts
# reducing the number of guns, which are primarily defensive weapons, results in an increase in crime
# people like [[young mass murderers]] who take [[atheistic]] beliefs to their logical conclusions are not "crazy" or "insane", but are true believers

(need to reduce the above list to ten!)

More generally, liberals also deny:

# [[feminists]] censor discussion about differences between men and women, and boys and girls
# [[Socialized_medicine|state run health care]] has lead to Islamic terrorism in Britain, and would do so in the US. <ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMu6wCqdeyQ ''FOX News analyzes the new terror in state healthcare.''</ref>
# obesity is a bigger problem than hunger
# that a school having virtually no [[conservative]] teachers and many [[atheists]] and [[liberals]] is a [[liberal]] school
# that [[liberals]] attempt to intimidate and ostracize [[conservatives]], particularly in school environments and some occupations.<ref>See [[liberals and friendship]].</ref>
# that [[liberals]] support taxpayer-funded [[abortion]]
# that girls and women in sports have debilitating ACL knee injuries at 3-4 times the rate of men,<ref>''Compare'' [http://www.universityhealthmatters.com/article.php?artid=50] (with an explanation of why there is a big difference) ''with'' [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/18/health/18knee.html?ex=1204088400&en=3a5abfaa6104ac63&ei=5070&emc=eta1 New York Times] (downplaying the difference and pretending that no one knows why). The New York Times denies overwhelming evidence, including the following:
:"Female athletes, particularly basketball players, are far more likely than their male counterparts to suffer ACL [Anterior Cruciate Ligament] injuries." Stephen Hargis, "Girls have more torn ACLs," Chattanooga Times Free Press (Tennessee), D1 (Feb. 4, 2005). According to the American Academy of Orthopaedic Surgeons, the risk of women tearing their ACL is 1 in 100. This number drops significantly to only 1 in 500 for men. See Nikki Usher, "Knee injury takes toll on girls playing soccer five times more likely than males to suffer a torn ACL," Philadelphia Inquirer, A01 (Nov. 29, 2004). "Compared with guys, female athletes run an eight-times-greater risk of tearing the ACL, a fibrous band that connects the shinbone (tibia) to the thighbone (femur). Basketball, soccer and other sports that require cutting moves or jump shots can put athletes at risk." Kathleen Fackelmann, "Girls face higher knee injury risk," USA Today, 15B (Aug. 24, 2004). Timothy Hewett, PhD, the lead researcher on a definitive study at the Sports Medicine Biodynamics Center at the University of Cincinnati, says this is "close to a billion-dollar problem in girls and women in the USA. ... Even after girls have recovered from the acute injury, the changes in the joint may set the stage for osteoarthritis of the knee ...." ''Id.'' That obvious suspicion was quickly confirmed: a study subsequently published in Arthritis & Rheumatism demonstrated that "more than half of ... 103 soccer players, who were ages 14 to 28 at the time of the ACL injury, suffered osteoarthritis of the knee at the time of the study -- about 12 years later." Kathleen Fackelmann, "Girls' knee injuries have later consequences," USA Today, 9D (Oct. 7, 2004). "Many of the women, who were about 31 by that time, also said they had pain or some other disability that made it hard to conduct daily activities." ''Id.''</ref> and are vulnerable to other injuries<ref>"Amber Scull ruptured her spleen after she was tackled during a practice drill at Nature Coast Tech in Brooksville 2 1/2 months ago. Had she [not] arrived at the hospital 30 minutes later, doctors told her mother, she might have died." [http://www.sptimes.com/2004/01/06/news_pf/Sports/Girls_face_dangers_on.shtml]</ref>
# that [[young mass murderers]] fit the profile of [[public school]]-trained [[atheism]]
# that the numerous premature deaths of [[Hollywood]] stars are the result of [[Hollywood values]]<ref>Liberal [[Wikipedia]] lists numerous [[actor]]s who died of drug overdoses, but will not acknowledge the role played by [[Hollywood values]], for which Wikipedia does not even have an entry. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drug-related_deaths]</ref>
# that [[homeschoolers]] often do better than those who attend [[public school]]
# that [[culture]] affects [[politics]], and people's views and lifestyles
# that successful [[democracy]], both historically and logically, is the result of [[Protestantism|Protestant]] [[Christianity]]<ref>[http://www.apologetics.com/default.jsp?bodycontent=/articles/cultural_apologetics/snyder-democracy1.html Calvinism and the Success of Liberal Democracy, by John Snyder]</ref>
# that [[Lawrence Summers]] was fired as President of [[Harvard]] for making a [[political correctness|politically incorrect]] suggestion about women and [[math]] aptitude
# that [[Ronald Reagan]]'s public exhortation, "[[Mikhail Gorbachev|Mr. Gorbachev]], tear down this wall," helped cause the nearly 30-year-old [[Berlin Wall]] later be torn down
# that [[gun control]] increases [[crime]]
# that reducing [[taxes]] stimulates the [[economy]]
# that choosing [[abortion]] over childbirth increases the risk of [[breast cancer]]
# that the [[mainstream media]] is [[bias]]ed
# that privately-run [[transport]] is more efficient than government-run transport
# that [[Universal Health Care|public health care]] is inferior medical care
# that [[Labor union|union]]s interfere with [[employment]] opportunities
# that [[liberal]] leaders engage in shocking wrongdoing, [[Liberal hypocrisy|hypocrisy]], and abuse of power<ref>See, e.g., leading [[liberal]] [[Eliot Spitzer]] and how fellow [[liberals]] downplayed or were silent about his misconduct.</ref>
# that ideas do matter, and can cause great harm, including liberal falsehoods
# that [[Islam]]ic extremism is a threat to the [[Western civilization]]<ref>Leftist [[Sam Harris]] admitted and complained about this liberal denial [http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061009/REPOSITORY/610090301/1028/OPINION02 here].</ref>
# that banning [[same-sex marriage]] is analogous to banning [[polygamy]]
# that aggressive interrogation is often the only way to obtain answers from [[terrorists]]
# how the [[liberal]] ideology is pushed on unsuspecting others, particularly youngsters

Often [[liberal]]s refuse to admit that they are [[liberal]]s, in the hope of appearing more reasonable. [[Hillary Clinton]] refused to admit in a presidential debate in 2007 that she is a [[liberal]]. Similarly, [[Michael Dukakis]] refused for a while to admit that he was a [[liberal]] during the 1988 presidential campaign. Only out of desperation did Dukakis admit that he was a [[liberal]], and even then he admitted only that was a liberal like President [[Harry Truman]], who served 40 years earlier.

== References ==

<references/>

{{liberalism}}
[[category:politics]]
[[category:liberals]]

Westboro Baptist Church

2008-03-15T02:58:53Z

QuantumDot:

'''Westboro Baptist Church''' is a church led by controversial [[Democrat]] gubernatorial and Senate candidate [[Fred Phelps]]. The church's members are almost entirely family members and are most infamous for their protests and pickets at soldier funerals who died in the line of duty where the church members then take the opportunity to denounce what they consider to be America's acceptance of [[homosexuality]]. The name of their [[website]], which contains a vulgar word, reflects this. Their antics are denounced across almost all spectrums of political and religious thought.

For more information, see [[Fred Phelps]].

[[Category:Hate groups]]
[[Category:Cults]]