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Barack Obama birthplace controversy

2011-03-26T15:55:16Z

Moshe: Undo revision 859076 by NatureLover (talk) he was not born in hawai

[[File:UndocumentedWorker.jpg|right|300px]]
[[Barack Obama]] claims to have been born at the ''Kapi'olani Medical Center for Women & Children'' in [[Honolulu]], [[Hawaii]],<ref name="maraniss">{{cite news|url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082301620_pf.html |title=Though Obama Had to Leave to Find Himself, It Is Hawaii That Made His Rise Possible|author=Maraniss, David|publisher=''The Washington Post''|date=2008-08-22|accessdate=2008-10-27}}</ref> to Barack Obama, Sr., a Luo (Kenya and Tanzania)|Luo from Nyang’oma Kogelo, Nyanza Province, [[Kenya]], and Ann Dunham, a US citizen <ref>{{cite web|publisher=[[FactCheck]]|url=http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html|title=Born in the U.S.A.|date=August 21, 2008|accessmonthday=October 24 |accessyear=2008}}</ref> of mainly [[English]], [[Irish]] and smaller amounts of [[Germany|German]] descent.<ref>{{cite news|url=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,269836,00.html |title=FOXNews.com - Report: Obama's Irish Roots Unearthed - Politics | Republican Party | Democratic Party | Political Spectrum |publisher=Foxnews.com |date=May 3, 2007 |accessdate=2008-11-08}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.usnews.com/blogs/john-farrell/2008/10/30/barack-obamas-irish-heritage.html |title=Barack Obama's Irish Heritage - John A. Farrell (usnews.com) |publisher=Usnews.com |date= |accessdate=2008-11-08}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/12/AR2007051201551.html |title=Tiny Irish Village Is Latest Place to Claim Obama as Its Own - washingtonpost.com |publisher=Washingtonpost.com |date= |accessdate=2008-11-08}}</ref> However, requests, including lawsuits, asking he make his official birth certificate public have gone unanswered.

The [[Constitution of the United States|US Constitution]] [[United_States_Constitution:Article_II|Article II]], Section 1 is quoted as requiring the following for any persons to be eligible to be [[President of the United States]]:
{{Cquote|'''''No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.'''''}}
Thus, according the Constitution, for all persons who were born in another country, even if they are US citizens, they are prohibited from legitimately becoming President.

In total, there are at least 6 lawsuits in the effort to compel President-elect Obama to prove his birthplace and US Citizenship. The lawsuits include those by [[Democratic Party|Democrat]] former-Assistant Attorney General of [[Pennsylvania]] [[Philip Berg]][http://www.obamacrimes.com/attachments/058_Berg%20v%20Obama%20Petition%20for%20Writ%20of%20Certiorari.pdf], American Independent Party founder and former-[[Republican Party]] Presidential Primary candidate [[Alan Keyes]][http://www.nbcaugusta.com/news/elections/presheadlines/34587804.html], and independent author [[Andy Martin]].[http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=80928]

Philip Berg explains his lawsuit in this linked video [http://www.americanpatrol.com/MISCNEWS/2006-UP/ELECTIONS/2008/OBAMA/OctSurpriseVideo081012.html?v=gA6_k3NtXZs]

The Obama campaign released a "Certification of Live Birth" from the State of Hawaii claiming this is proof Obama was born in Hawaii.<ref>[http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate Obama Campaign; Fight The Smears Website]</ref> However, the ''Department of Hawaiian Home Lands'', an official government agency of the [[Hawaii|State of Hawaii]] rejects this document as proof of Hawaiian birth. They require instead a "Certificate of Live Birth" (1st word different). The department states:
{{Cquote|'''''In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.'''''<ref>[http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl Forms; Department of Hawaiian Home Lands]</ref>}}

Bloggers note that the "Certification of Live Birth" records Obama's father's race as "AFRICAN" versus "Negro" and that the document contains the word "LASER" in the lower left hand corner identifying the form type. They claim both words are incompatible with a document generated in 1961. They also note the certification number is blacked out.<ref>[http://conservativepolitics.today.com/2008/06/25/proven-barack-obama-presented-forged-certificate-of-live-birth/ Conservative Politics Today Website]</ref>

==See also==
*[[Birthplace of Barack Obama]]
*[[Obama birth certificate controversy]]
*[[Obama birth certificate lawsuits]]
*[[Essay:Born Outside the U.S.A.!]]

== References ==
{{reflist}}

== Outside Links ==

'''Sources favoring the Courts' compelling Obama to prove his birthplace and citizenship:'''

* [http://www.obamacrimes.com Philip Berg's Website]

'''Sources opposed to the Courts' compelling Obama to prove his birthplace and citizenship:'''

* [http://www.stopthesmears.com Anti-Barack Obama Campaign Website]

[[Category:Barack Hussein Obama]]

Oxymoron

2011-03-25T23:49:35Z

Moshe:

'''Oxymoron''' is a figure of speech in which two terms which are polar opposites are used together for [[rhetorical]] effect, or criticized because they are self-contradictory as in "[[pro-life]] [[Democrat]]." In the past, rhetoric and elocution were standard school subjects and students were taught long lists of technical names of figures of speech and their meaning. ''Oxymoron'' was one of these, along with ''[[simile]]'', ''[[metaphor]]'', ''[[metonymy]]'', etc. True oxymoron is relatively rare; one well-known example occurs in [[Tennyson]]'s ''Idylls of the King:''
:And faith unfaithful kept him falsely true.<ref>[http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/T/TennysonAlfred/verse/idyllsking/lancelotelaine.html Lancelot and Elaine], Tennyson, ''Idylls of the King''</ref>
Another occurs in [[Shakespeare]]'s ''[[Romeo and Juliet]]," when Juliet tells Romeo
:Good night, good night! parting is such sweet sorrow.<ref>Shakespeare, ''Romeo and Juliet,'' [http://shakespeare.mit.edu/romeo_juliet/romeo_juliet.2.2.html Act II, Scene 2]</ref>
Arthur Koestler's book title, ''Darkness at Noon,'' is another example.

Among classical [[Greek]] authors, [[Sophocles]] was known for his fondness for the device.

Since the word ''oxymoron'' is derived from the Greek roots ''oxy,'' sharp, and ''moron,'' dull, it literally means "sharp-dull" and is thus itself an example of an oxymoron.

There is also a [[pun]]like form of humor which consists of observing or claiming that certain phrases are oxymorons. While not new, It was popularized by Warren Blumenfeld's 1986 book, ''Jumbo Shrimp & Other Almost Perfect Oxymorons: Contradictory Expressions That Make Absolute Sense.'' In literal fact, what is being pointed out is an amusing contradiction.

Originally it played on the fact that many listeners remembered they been taught what an oxymoron was in school, but could not remember what it was. The context would have been something like this:

Humorist: "Jumbo shrimp?" That's an ''oxymoron.'' 
Mark: [Realizes he should know the word... his ten-grade English teacher drilled him on it... but can't quite, and is forced to ask]: A what? 
Humorist: An oxymoron, a contradiction in terms. 
Mark: (Thinks about it, remember realizes that although "Jumbo shrimp" is a real expression, "shrimp" means small and "Jumbo" means large, and rolls on the ground laughing helplessly). 

The device has now become so common that the word ''oxymoron'' has come to ''mean'' this form of humor, which is entirely unrelated to the original meaning of the word. It is often employed to make a political point. It rarely reveals any actual meaning; "Military intelligence is an oxymoron" does not actually point out anything intrinsic in military structure or thinking; it merely puns on the meaning of the phrase "military intelligence" and is just a tricky way of delivering an insult.

Examples of the modern, joking usage:

* ''Heroic villain'' - Since villains are bad, calling one heroic is an oxymoron.
* ''Friendly vandal'' - A flaw similar to the one above.

Examples of modern, serious usage:

* ''Jumbo shrimp''
* ''Real nightmare''
* ''same difference''
* ''expect the unexpected''
* ''classic rock''

Oxymorons that express a criticism include:

* ''Harvard Divinity School''
* ''Creation Scientist''
* ''gay charity'' (the homosexual ideology is entirely selfish)
* ''pro-life Democrat''
* ''evolutionary science''<ref>The theory of evolution is [[pseudoscience]] [http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwinism/there-is-no-theory-of-evolution/][http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/PoE/pe05scnc.html][http://www.parentcompany.com/science_kit/sk3b.htm]</ref>
* ''liberal Christian''<ref>[[Liberal values]] are in direct contradiction to the teachings of [[Christianity]] ([[Abortion]], [[Homosexuality]] etc).</ref>
*"Military intelligence" - often used by liberals to smear the Armed Forces
*[[conservative]] professor - the process of obtaining a PhD and professorship is so politicized that [[liberals]] simply exclude conservatives

==External Links==
* [http://www.fun-with-words.com/oxym_oxymoronology.html Oxymorons (or Oxymora)]

==Notes==
<references/>

[[Category:Rhetorical Devices]]
[[Category:Figures of Speech]]
[[Category:Words and Phrases]]

Pope

2011-03-25T00:18:15Z

Moshe: Undo revision 858824 by SOIHEARDULEIKMUDKIPZ (talk)

'''The Pope''' (from Greek papas, father) is the head of the [[Roman Catholic Church]]. His Catholic titles include being the Bishop of Rome, where he is the successor of [[Saint Peter|St. Peter]]. The Pope is the chief pastor of the whole Church, the Vicar of Christ upon earth.<ref> Until 1870 he also was the secular ruler of an independent country in central Italy, the Papal States. Since 1929 the Pope rules Vatican City, an independent country inside the city of Rome.</ref> ''Pontifex summus'' is a title of dignity. He appoints all the cardinals and bishops, but otherwise has limited control over them. Catholics consider him infallible in certain proclamations, and cite the Bible:
:''Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock (Cepha) I will build my Church.'' Matthew 16:17-19. ''Be the shepherd of my sheep.'' John 21:16.

The Pope ecclesiastical jury is called the [[Holy See]]. Since 1059 The Pope has always been chosen by the Cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church meeting in secret. When they have not reached a decision they burn the ballots and black smoke emerges; when a pope is chosen the smoke is white.

[[Image:XVI.jpg|right|His Holiness Benedict XVI|thumb]]

== Insignia ==
* '''Tiara'''
The pope is distinguished by the use of the tiara or triple crown. At what date the custom of crowning the pope was introduced is unknown. It was certainly previous to the forged donation of Constantine, which dates from the commencement of the ninth century, for mention is there made of the pope's coronation. The triple crown is of much later origin. (it remains only a symbol)

No pope has worn an actual triple tiara since [[Pope Paul VI]] at the end of the [[Second Vatican Council]] in 1965.

*'''Cross'''
The pope moreover does not, like ordinary bishops, use the bent pastoral staff, but only the erect cross. This custom was introduced before the reign of [[Pope Innocent III]] (1198-1216) (cap. un. X de sacra unctione, I, 15).

* '''Pallium'''

He further uses the [[pallium]] at all ecclesiastical functions, and not under the same restrictions as do the [[archbishop]]s on whom he has conferred it.
<ref> [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm The Pope] Catholic Encyclopedia </ref>

* '''Fisherman's Ring'''
It is a gold ring decorated with a depiction of St. Peter in a boat casting his net.

== Benedict XVI ==
[[Image:BENEDETTO XVI.jpg|right]]
Today the Pope is [[Pope Benedict XVI]]. On May 11, 2007 he [[canonized]] [[Brazil]]'s first native-born [[saint]]. During the ceremonies he said that today's world "needs transparent lives, clear souls, pure minds"; Christians, must resist the temptation to think of their lives as "mere objects of pleasure."

''Gerald Fogarty, a [[Jesuit]] priest and professor at the University of Virginia, said that some Catholics were disappointed with Ratzinger's selection because he symbolized the conservative side of the church's ideological split, especially in the United States''.<ref> [http://www.cfr.org/publication/10595/ Benedict XVI: Conservative]</ref>

== Controversy ==

The Pope is claimed to be infallible in matters of doctrine (see [[Dictatus Papae]]). The concept of [[Papal Infallibility]] (1870) is used to proclaim articles of faith, which are essential to adhere to be considered a Catholic. These articles are therefore considered to be a Dogmatic definition. Such pronouncements are rare, and the concept does not mean that Catholics are to believe everything that the Pope says is correct. The last issue was asserting the [[Assumption of Mary]].

[[The First Vatican Council]], of 1870, anathematized all who dispute the Pope's primacy of honor and of jurisdiction (it is lawful to discuss the precise nature of that primacy, provided that such discussion does not violate the terms of the Council's Dogmatic Constitution). [[The Second Vatican Council]] of 1965 '''modified''' many of the dictates of 1870.

Critics of the papacy claim that past Popes who claimed successorship to St. Peter, such as [[Pope Callixtus III]] and [[Pope Alexander VI]] from the Borgia family, were so corrupt as to be unfit to wield power. An just and loving [[God]], they claim, would not have given those people the powers claimed for them by the Catholic Church. Opponents of these critics reply that even the worst Popes failed to wreck the traditions of the Church.

==History==
The '''history of the papacy''' is a major factor in European history, especially the Middle Ages.

The Pope has been the head of the [[Roman Catholic Church]] for over 1600 years. The Eastern orthodox churches reject his claims to primacy. Even more vigorously the Protestant Reformation reject the Papacy and theology of the Roman Catholic Church. As a secular leaders the Popes controlled Rome and the Papal States in central Italy until 1870, and especially in the 16th century were notable patrons of the arts, turning St. Peter's Church in Rome into an architectural wonder, especially notable for the artwork in its Sistine Chapel.<ref> Famous patrons of the arts include Sixtus IV (1471-1484), [[Julius II]] (1503-1513), and Clement VII (1523-1534)</ref>

Since 1929 the Pope controls only the small Vatican city-state (located inside Rome), but has diplomatic relations with most nations. The Pope's power comes from his appointment of all the bishops in the Catholic Church, and from his ability (since 1870) to proclaim a theological doctrine infallibly. The history of the Popes is interwoven with the history of the Catholic Church and the history of Europe. In terms of personalities and morality, the 262 Popes were saints and sinners who ranged very widely indeed.<ref>They were all men. The story of Joan who disguised herself as a man and became Pope sometime between 850 and 1050 was exposed as a false myth in 1650, but still circulates. Kelly (1998) 331-32. </ref>In recent centuries most have been holy men and in recent decades they have been linguists able to speak to Catholics in many languages. In recent centuries most Popes have been scions of Italian nobility; notable exceptions are Pope John Paul II (1978-2005) the first Polish Pope, and Benedict XVI (2005- ) the first German since 1523.

===Traditions===
Catholic tradition argues that Christ told Peter to found a church, and that he built one in Rome, that all Popes descend from him, and the bishop of Rome has divine authority to rule over the Church. Protestants say the Biblical texts are too short and obscure to bear the weight of an elaborate infrastructure that was erected many centuries after Christ, and that the Papacy interferes with the direct relationship between Christ and the sinner. Indeed, the history of the [[Reformation]] is the history of the rejection of the Papacy, while the history of the [[Counter-Reformation]] is the history of its reform and partial restoration to power using moral authority, diplomacy, and orders such as the [[Jesuits]].

====Biblical texts====
Catholics emphasize that Jesus told [[Simon Peter]]:
:thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.<ref>Gospel of Matthew: Chapter 16, Verse 18; see also 1 Corinthians 3:11, Ephesians 2:20, [[1 Peter]] 2:5–6, and Revelations 21:14.</ref>

Peter (and Paul) did found a church in Rome in 42 A.D. and served as the bishop for 25 years until 67 A.D. when he was martyred. However, as Duffy points out, "wherever we turn, the solid outlines of the Petrine succession at Rome seem to blur and dissolve."<ref> Duffy, p. 2</ref> That is, the primacy of the bishop of Rome in the Western Roman Empire was not established for several centuries, and even then was rejected by eastern bishops who formed the Eastern Orthodox Church under the leadership of the Patriarch of Constantinople.

===Early history to 350===

===Early Middle Ages: 350-1000===

===Late Middle Ages: 1000-1500===
The 14th century was the scene of dramatic humiliations that reduced the secular power and religious prestige of the of the papacy. The French king made his man Pope and moved the papal court to Avignon in France, 1309-1377. During the "Babylonian Captivity" of the papacy, seven French popes were seen as mere tools of France. Avignon was not a holy city, like Rome, and the men there were scarcely concerned with holiness; the papal entourage demanded bribes and fees to deal with terns of thousands of petitions that flooded in. As the paperwork and expenses multiplied and the prestige of the Papacy slipped.<ref> Ullmann (2002) p. 287</ref> The return to Rome in 1378 was followed by an even greater catastrophe. A split between French and Italian factions in the Curia resulted in the "Great Schism" of 1378-1417, during which Rome and Avignon each had their own series of popes, who claimed legitimacy and authority over the church. After enormous confusion the decision was made to appeal to a church council. The Council of Constance healed the schism in 1415.

The Council issued the decree ''Sacrosancta,'' (April 1415) asserting that in matters touching the faith and the unification and reform of the Church, a general council stood above all other authority, including papal. Another decree ''Frequens,'' (October 1417) tried to set controls on the pope and cardinals and proposed that a new council meet within five years and be convened regularly every ten years thereafter. The Church was on the verge of a constritutional revolution that would have shifted power from the pope to the bishops. However the papal forces fought back and by defeating the Council of Basel (1431-1449) regained control.

It took years to rebuild the neglected infrastructure of the city of Rome. The papacy never regained the secular power it had lost, and the loosened religious authority allowed an opening for radical reformers such as [[John Wycliffe]] and the Hussites.

===Reformation and Counter-Reformation: 1500-1700===
Frommel (1986) shows the popes did not provide a coordinated policy for Roman urban development. Rather, they had their own building agendas, driven by an egocentric spontaneity to outdo predecessors and eternalize family glory. Their agendas did reflect papal prominence in the city and created an imperial aura.

===1700-1815===
The Pope confronted [[Gallicanism]] in France, which reduced the Pope's power over the bishops. The Gallican argument was that the pope was supreme in spiritual matters, but that temporal affairs were the province of the government. The main issue was the selection of bishops, who had powerful temporal roles in terms of ownership of lands and churches. "Royal Gallicanism" emphasized the powers of the king. "Ecclesiatical Gallicanism" emphasized the powers of the bishops vis-a-vis the pope.
====French Revolution====
Much worse was the [[French Revolution]] in the 1790s, which disestablished the Church, forced many priests and bishops into exile, and seized vast landholdings.

====Napoleon====
Religion had been a major issue during the [[French Revolution]], and Napoleon resolved most of the outstanding problems. Thereby he moved the clergy and large numbers of devout Catholics from hostility to the government to support for him. The Catholic system was reestablished by the [[Concordat of 1801]] (signed with Pope [[Pius VII]]), so that church life returned to normal; the church lands were not restored, but the Jesuits were allowed back in and the bitter fights between the government and Church ended. Protestants and atheists were tolerated.<ref> Donald Sutherland. ''The French Revolution and Empire: The Quest for a Civic Order'' (2003) ch 11</ref>

===1815 to 1914===
====Pius VII====
Pius VII (1800-23) was stripped of powers by [[Napoleon]] but made a striking comeback after Napoleon's fall in 1815. Pius VII was a deeply religious Benedictine, and a theologian; he lived simply and avoided nepotism. His unusually able Secretary of State Cardinal Consalvi won the restoration to the Pope of most of the territories in Italy which Napoleon had seized. He reinvigorated numerous monastic orders and helped create new societies for men and women, especially those engaged in teaching and missionary work.
Most important was the restoration of the Jesuits in 1814; they had been suppressed in most countries. They grew larger and even more influential in the 19th century.

====Conservatism====
After 1800 the Papacy became the center of conservatism in Europe in reaction against the liberalism of the French Revolution and its admirers. The Papacy recognized that throughout Europe millions of peasants and poor folk were devoted to the saints and traditions of the Church; the Popes responded energetically by promoting new Marian devotions (such as the rosary). Rome had fallen into disrepair and Pius VII began the restoration of the city's artistic glories, an enterprise that continues into the 21st century. <ref> Kelly (1999); Duffy (2006); Latourette (1958) vol 1. </ref> Much like other heads of state, popes can have political leanings, which tend to be conservative, especially on issues of abortion. However, on some issues popes have been known to hold more liberal opinions; for example, Pope John Paul II was against the coalition action to free Iraq from tyranny.

====Ultramontane vs Gallican====
The "ultramontane" tendency in the Church centralized more power and authority in the Papacy. It was opposed by the "Gallican" tendency, especially in France, to give national churches more control over their affairs. The ultramontine forces generally won out, especially with the declaration of papal infallability at the First Vatican Council in 1870. The ultramontane forces cited the old doctrines of [[Robert Bellarmine]] (1542-1621) and [[Francisco de Suárez]] (1548-1617) to bolster the papal claim to absolute power in spiritual matters.

Gallicanism in France was damaged by the rise of ultramontanism in the 1850s and the devotional revolution that shifted piety to devotions sponsored by Rome. Gallicanism was officially suppressed by the First Vatican Council in 1870, which established the paramount authority of the pope as a matter of dogma. However informal manifestations of Gallicanism continue in some countries, especially China. In Canada, the Irish clergy fought for ultramontanism against the French clergy, who were Gallican. The [[Catholicism in Ireland|Irish]] won out with the support of the Vatican.

After Vatican II, 1962-65, the multiple and often confused controversy over papal authority and infallibility ended quietly.

====Facing Modernity====
Despite dire predictions, the Church adapted to modernity in its own way and increased its role in people's lives in the 19th century. The Church escaped irrelevance by using the same means as did emerging nation-states; establishing more administrative and doctrinal centralization in Rome; establishing a homogeneous culture, aided especially by universal use of Latin; promoting new rites and folk devotions, especially those focused on Mary and other favored saints; promoting pilgrimages to holy sites; encouraging clergy to endorse and lead regional nationalist movements that focused on historic languages and cultures; creating many new teaching orders and establishing Catholic schools and colleges; supporting intellectuals and publishing houses; enhancing papal power; and cultivating an image of both theologiocal canonical and moral superiority. Of special importance was the missionary activity, based especially in Germany, that was in competition with Protestant missions in China, India, Africa and other non-Christain lands. The Jesuits proved highly adept at promoting the Papal cause. The Pope thereby became less symbolic and more powerful. There was internal dissent among some Catholic intellectuals, such as historian [[Lord Acton]] in Britain and theologian Ignaz von Döllinger in Germany, who opposed the declaration of the dogma of papal infallibility.

====Facing Liberalism====
Burns (1990) takes a sociological perspective on the Papacy's long battle with liberalism. He shows how the papacy, in reaction to the rise of the liberal states of the 19th and 20th centuries, gradually reformulated Catholic ideology within the limited autonomy they possessed and carefully subordinated social and political issues to more purely religious and moral issues as they constructed an ideological opposition to liberalism.

In Germany in the 1840s the ultramontane movement used mass meetings and pilgrimages to combat the growth of liberalism and modernism. However the abnti-clerical liberal press attacked these mass meetings, and in response a large number of Catholic newspapers emerged in Germany starting in the 1840s. To ensure their own survival, these newspapers championed the liberal idea of press freedom. In addition, local clubs were established to mobilize the Catholic working class. These clubs tried to end discrimination against ordinary Catholics by working to establish freedom of religion and freedom of thought and by entering the electoral process. With the unification of Germany in 1870, the new nation faced the problems of consolidation, one of which was secularization. The laws dealing with secularization opened a poltical battle between Bismark and the Protestants and liberals on one side, and the Catholics on the other, called the "Kulturkampf." The Catholics organized their own political parties and protected their interests by voting as a bloc into the 1930s, when the Nazis closed down all other parties.
====Syllabus of Errors====
The [[Syllabus of Errors]] of Pope [[Pius IX]] in 1864 rejected the liberal doctrines of the modern world.<ref> see text at [http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9syll.htm]</ref> It denounced pantheism, naturalism, nationalism, indifferentism, socialism, communism, freemasonry, and other modern views. The Pope claimed for the Catholic Church total control over science and culture. The liberals viewed this as a declaration of war by the Church on modern civilization. Its repercussions within France, the U.S., Britain and other countries were resounding, nearly destroying the liberal Catholic movement and furnishing a powerful weapon to the anticlerical faction, or (in the U.S.) to anti-Catholic Protestants. Opponents stressed the Papacy had become intolerant and medieval and largely political in nature.<ref> Latourette (1958) vol 1 ch. 6</ref>

====Freemasons====
In many countries the Church faced off against the Freemasons, a secret society that was politically active in numerous countries. The Papacy coordinated a counterattack. For example in Brazil, the religious question in the 1870s centered on the Masonic controversy and the struggle between regalist and ultramontane forces. One method of counterattack was to found Catholic universities. Thus Mgr. Ignace Bourget, second bishop of Montreal, Canada, founded Laval University, as a Catholic reaction to a liberal and secularist outburst in Quebec. Bourget said the university would be the principal instrument for "wresting the elite from the clutches of liberalism."

====Women====
Camp (1990) traces the treatment of women. In the late 19th century the papacy began to revise its public teachings about the proper role of women in the Church and society. From Pope Leo XIII (1878-1903) to Pope John Paul II (1978-2005), papal social pronouncements reveal an evolution in attitudes toward a woman's proper "place" from the view that women are passive subordinates to men in all spheres of life to the current teaching that lay and clerical women are equal but complementary partners with men in religious, political, economic, and social endeavors. However, the papacy has remained firm in the conviction that ordination to the priesthood is for men only.

===Since 1914===
Student and youth groups were formed in major countries, with Papal blessing. For example the French Federation of Catholic Students (FFEC) was formed in 1922 to keep college graduates within the orbit of the Church, shield them from hostile ideological and political influences, and deepen their spiritual experience. It was a conservative movement, ultramontane in outlook; and boasted 16,000 members in 1939. During the Vichy years 1940-42 it was politically active at first in support of Vichy before being won over by nationalist ideology at the instigation of spiritual leaders and joining the underground resistance movement.

John XXIII (1958-63) enjoyed uniformly favorable, if sometimes puzzled, treatment from the English-language media. Initially, the focus was on his wit and warm personality. His unexpected calling of Vatican Council II and his major encyclicals - ''Mater et Magistra'' and ''Pacem in Terris'' - transformed his image into that of a bold innovator. In the end, it was his concern for world peace at the height of the Cold War and his effort to reach beyond Catholics to address all people of good will that won Pope John XXIII universal praise and affection.

====Holocaust issues====
Coppa (2005) reassesses the attitudes and policies toward Nazi racism of Pope Pius XI (1922-1939). Although Pius XI accepted and practiced religious anti-Judaism, he consistently opposed racial anti-Semitism on theological grounds throughout his papacy. As a result, he resisted the course of accommodation and conciliation favored by others within the Catholic Church, including Eugenio Pacelli (1876-1958), who served as papal secretary of state from 1930 prior to succeeding Pius XI as Pope Pius XII in 1939. Between 1933 and 1939 Pius XI waged a campaign against Nazi and Fascist racism and anti-Semitism that included public speeches and published condemnations denouncing the division of humanity on the basis of race as well as the commission of a "secret" encyclical on the incompatibility of racism and Catholicism that remained unpublished until 1995. His confrontational stance therefore sharply contrasted with the silence of Pope Pius XII during the Holocaust.

== External links ==

*[http://www.cwnews.com/index.cfm Catholic World News] Conservative updates and commentary.
*[http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/viewmessaggi.aspx?f=65482&idd=431&p=97 Papa Ratzinger Forum]
*[http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/benedict_xvi/index.html?inline=nyt-per Times Topics] Benedict XVI in ''The New York Times''

==Bibliography==
===Surveys===
* ''Catholic Encyclopedia,'' "The Pope" (1913) [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm online edition] many articles on related topics
* Coppa, Frank J., ed. ''Encyclopedia of the Vatican and Papacy.'' Greenwood, 1998. 473 pp.
* Duffy, Eamon. ''Saints and Sinners: A History of the Popes,'' (3rd ed 2006), 496pp; Yale University Press; heavily illustrated history by leading Catholic scholar
* LaDue, William J. ''The Chair of Saint Peter: A History of the Papacy.'' Orbis Books, 1999. 374 pp.
* Levillain, Philippe, ed. ''The Papacy: An Encyclopedia.'' Routledge, 2001. 1780 pp.
* ''New Catholic 'Encyclopedia'' (1967), numerous articles
* Steimer, Bruno and Parker, Michael G., ed. ''Dictionary of Popes and the Papacy.'' Crossroad, 2001. 278 pp.

===Specialized studies===
* Baumgartner, Frederic J. ''Behind Locked Doors: A History of the Papal Elections.'' Palgrave Macmillan, 2003. 272 pp.
* Brown, Peter. ''The Rise of Western Christendom: Triumph and Diversity 200-1000 AD'' (2002), 640pp
* Ralph J. Capio; "The Papacy: A Case Study in Organizational Longevity," ''Journal of European Studies,'' Vol. 26, 1996. [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=5002278435 online edition]
* Carlen, Claudia. ed. ''Papal Pronouncements, a Guide, 1740-1978: Vol. 1: Benedict XIV to Paul VI.'' and ''Papal Pronouncements, a Guide, 1740-1978: Vol. 2: Paul VI to John Paul I.'' Pierian, 1990.
* Chadwick, Owen. ''The Popes and European Revolution.'' Oxford U. Press, 1981. 646 pp.
* Daniel-Rops, Henri. ''The Church in the Eighteenth Century'' (1964)
* Daniel-Rops, Henri. ''The Church in an Age of Revolution'' (1965).
* Frommel, Christoph L. "Papal Policy: The Planning Of Rome During The Renaissance." ''Journal Of Interdisciplinary History,'' 1986 17(1): 39-65. Issn: 0022-1953 Fulltext: in Jstor
* Hales, E. E. Y. ''Revolution and Papacy, 1769-1846,'' (1960)
* Logan, F. Donald. ''A History of the Church in the Middle Ages.'' 2002. [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=102805754# online edition]
* Mullett, Michael A. ''The Catholic Reformation,'' (1999), [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=102890994 online edition]
* Pastor, Ludwig von. ''History of the Popes From the Close of the Middle Ages'', (1894-1930), 16 vol, older Catholic history [http://books.google.com/books?spell=1&lr=&q=pastor+history+popes&as_brr=1 online from books.google.com]
* Ullmann, Walter. ''A Short History of the Papacy in the Middle Ages,'' (2002), 393pp, [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=107602176 online edition]
* Wright, A. D. ''The Early Modern Papacy: From the Council of Trent to the French Revolution 1564-1789.'' Longman, 2000. 335 pp.

===Specific Popes===
* ''Catholic Encyclopedia,'' "The Pope" (1913) [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm online edition] many articles on all the Popes and related topics
* Collins, Jeffrey. ''Papacy and Politics in Eighteenth-Century Rome: Pius VI and the Arts.'' Cambridge U. Press, 2004. 355 pp.
* Coppa, Frank J., ed. ''Great Popes through History: An Encyclopedia.'' Greenwood, 2002. 600 pp.
* Gouwens, Kenneth and Reiss, Sheryl E., ed. ''The Pontificate of Clement VII: History, Politics, Culture.'' Ashgate, 2005. 437 pp.
* Kelly, J.N.D. ''The Oxford Dictionary of Popes'' (1988). 349pp; scholarly short biographies; [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=54850171 online edition]

===Since 1815===
* Burns, Gene. "The Politics of Ideology: The Papal Struggle with Liberalism." ''American Journal of Sociology,'' 1990 95(5): 1123-1152. Issn: 0002-9602 fulltext: in Jstor and Ebsco
* Camp, Richard L. "From Passive Subordination To Complementary Partnership: The Papal Conception of a Woman's Place in Church and Society since 1878." ''Catholic Historical Review,'' 1990 76(3): 506-525. Issn: 0008-8080 Fulltext: in Ebsco
* Chadwick, Owen. ''A History of the Popes, 1830-1914.'' (1998), 616pp; a standard recent history. [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=12355195 online edition],
* Coppa, Frank J. ''The Modern Papacy since 1789.'' Longman, 1998. 296 pp.
* Coppa, Frank J. "Between Anti-Judaism and Anti-Semitism, Pius XI's Response to the Nazi Persecution of the Jews: Precursor to Pius XII's "Silence"?" ''Journal of Church and State'' 2005 47(1): 63-89. Issn: 0021-969x Fulltext: in Ebsco
* Gillis, Chester, ed. ''The Political Papacy: John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Their Influence.'' Paradigm, 2006. 208 pp.
* Holland, Joe. ''Modern Catholic Social Teaching: The Popes Confront the Industrial Age 1740-1958.'' Paulist Press, 2003. 404 pp.
* Latourette, Kenneth Scott. ''Christianity in a Revolutionary Age: A History of Christianity in the Nineteenth and Twentieth Centuries'' 5 Vol'' (1958), a detailed history of Chritianity 1800-1950 by a fair-minded Protestant scholar. [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=101463833 vol 1 online edition]
* Packard, Jerrold M. ''Peter's Kingdom: Inside the Papal City.'' Scribner's, 1985. 352 pp.
* Pollard, John F. ''Money and the Rise of the Modern Papacy: Financing the Vatican, 1850-1950.'' Cambridge U. Press, 2005. 265 pp.
* Rittner, Carol and Roth, John K., ed. ''Pope Pius XII and the Holocaust.'' Leicester U. Press, 2002. 291 pp.

== References ==

<references/>

==List of Popes==

Following the name of each Pope is the year of their accession.
[[File:Papa Benedetto XVI PD WC.jpg|thumb|330px|Pope Benedict XVI]]
#[[Saint Peter]] (30?)
#[[Pope Linus]] (67)
#[[Pope Anacletus]] (76)
#[[Pope Clement I]] (88)
#[[Pope Evaristus]] (97)
#[[Pope Alexander I]] (105)
#[[Pope Sixtus I]] (115)
#[[Pope Telesphorus]] (125)
#[[Pope Hyginus]] (136)
#[[Pope Pius I]] (140)
#[[Pope Anicetus]] (155)
#[[Pope Soter]] (166)
#[[Pope Eleuterus]] (175)
#[[Pope Victor I]] (189)
#[[Pope Zephyrinus]] (199)
#[[Pope Callixtus I]] (217)
#[[Pope Urban I]] (222)
#[[Pope Pontian]] (230)
#[[Pope Anterus]] (235)
#[[Pope Fabian]] (236)
#[[Pope Cornelius]] (251)
#[[Pope Lucius I]] (253)
#[[Pope Stephen I]] (254)
#[[Pope Sixtus II]] (257)
#Pope Dionysius (259)
#Pope Felix I (269)
#Pope Eutychian (275)
#Pope Caius (283)
#Pope Marcellinus(296)
#Pope Marcellus I (308)
#Pope Eusebius (309)
#Pope Miltiades (311)
#Pope Sylvester I (314)
#Pope Mark (336)
#Pope Julius I (337)
#Pope Liberius (352)
#Pope Damasus I (366)
#Pope Siricius (384)
#Pope Anastasius I (399)
#Pope Innocent I (401)
#Pope Zosimus (417)
#Pope Boniface I (418)
#Pope Celestine I (422)
#Pope Sixtus III (432)
#[[Pope Leo I]] (440)
#Pope Hilarius (461)
#Pope Simplicius (468)
#Pope Felix III (483)
#Pope Gelasius I (492)
#Pope Anastasius II (496)
#Pope Symmachus (498)
#Pope Hormisdas (514)
#Pope John I, Martyr (523)
#Pope Felix IV (526)
#Pope Boniface II (530)
#Pope John II (533)
#Pope Agapetus I (535)
#Pope Silverius, Marytr (536)
#Pope Vigilius (537)
#Pope Pelagius I (556)
#Pope John III (561)
#Pope Benedict I (575)
#Pope Pelagius II (579)
#[[Gregory the Great|Pope Gregory I]] (590)
#Pope Sabinian (604)
#Pope Boniface III (607)
#Pope Boniface IV (608)
#Pope Adeodatus I (615)
#Pope Boniface V (619)
#Pope Honorius I (625)
#Pope Severinus (640)
#Pope John IV (640)
#Pope Theodore I (642)
#Pope Martin I, Marytr (649)
#Pope Eugene I (654)
#Pope Vitalian (657)
#Pope Adeodatus II (672)
#Pope Donus (676)
#Pope Agatho (678)
#Pope Leo II (682)
#Pope Benedict II (684)
#Pope John V (685)
#Pope Conon (686)
#Pope Sergius I (687)
#Pope John VI (701)
#Pope John VII (705)
#Pope Sisinnius (706)
#Pope Constantine (708)
#Pope Gregory II (715)
#Pope Gregory III (731)
#Pope Zachary (741)
#Pope Stephen II (752)
#Pope Paul I (757)
#Pope Stephen III (768)
#Pope Adrian I (772)
#Pope Leo III (795)
#Pope Stephen IV (816)
#Pope Paschal I (817)
#Pope Eugene II (824)
#Pope Valentine (827)
#Pope Gregory IV (827)
#Pope Sergius II (844)
#Pope Leo IV (847)
#Pope Benedict III (855)
#Pope Nicholas I (858)
#Pope Adrian II (867)
#Pope John VIII (872)
#Pope Marinus I (882)
#Pope Adrian III (884)
#Pope Stephen V (885)
#Pope [[Formosus]] (891)
#Pope Boniface VI (896)
#Pope Stephen VI (896)
#Pope Romanus (897)
#Pope Theodore II (897)
#Pope John IX (898)
#Pope Benedict IV (900)
#Pope Leo V (903)
#Pope Sergius III (904)
#Pope Anastasius III (911)
#Pope Landus (914)
#Pope John X (914)
#Pope Leo VI (928)
#[[Pope Stephen VII]] (928)
#Pope John XI (931)
#Pope Leo VII (936)
#Pope Stephen VIII (939)
#Pope Marinus II (942)
#Pope Agapetus II (946)
#Pope John XII (955)
#Pope Leo VIII (963)
#Pope Benedict V (964)
#Pope John XIII (965)
#Pope Benedict VI (973)
#Pope Benedict VII (974)
#Pope John XIV (983)
#Pope John XV (985)
#Pope Gregory V (996)
#Pope Sylvester II (999)
#Pope John XVII (1003)
#Pope John XVIII (1004)
#Pope Sergius IV (1009)
#Pope Benedict VIII (1012)
#Pope John XIX (1024)
#Pope Benedict IX (1032)
#Pope Sylvester III (1045)
#Pope Benedict IX (1045)
#Pope Gregory VI (1045)
#Pope Clement II (1046)
#Pope Benedict IX (1047)
#Pope Damasus II (1048)
#Pope Leo IX (1049)
#Pope Victor II (1055)
#Pope Stephen IX (1057)
#Pope Nicholas II (1059)
#Pope Alexander II (1061)
#[[Pope Gregory VII]] (1073)
#Pope Victor III (1086)
#[[Pope Urban II]] (1088)
#Pope Paschal II (1099)
#Pope Gelasius II (1118)
#Pope Callixtus II (1119)
#Pope Honorius II (1124)
#Pope Innocent II (1130)
#Pope Celestine II (1143)
#Pope Lucius II (1144)
#Pope Eugene III (1145)
#Pope Anastasius IV (1153)
#[[Pope Adrian IV]] (1154)
#Pope Alexander III (1159)
#Pope Lucius III (1181)
#Pope Urban III (1185)
#Pope Gregory VIII (1187)
#Pope Clement III (1187)
#Pope Celestine III (1191)
#Pope Innocent III (1198)
#Pope Honorius III (1216)
#Pope Gregory IX (1227)
#Pope Celestine IV (1241)
#Pope Innocent IV (1243)
#Pope Alexander IV (1254)
#Pope Urban IV (1261)
#Pope Clement IV (1265)
#Pope Gregory X (1271)
#Pope Innocent V (1276)
#Pope Adrian V (1276)
#Pope John XXI (1276)
#Pope Nicholas III (1277)
#Pope Martin IV (1281)
#Pope Honorius IV (1285)
#Pope Nicholas IV (1288)
#Pope Celestine V (1294)
#Pope Boniface VIII (1294)
#Pope Benedict XI (1303)
#Pope Clement V (1305)
#Pope John XXII (1316)
#Pope Benedict XII (1334)
#Pope Clement VI (1342)
#Pope Innocent VI (1352)
#Pope Urban V (1362)
#Pope Gregory XI (1370)
#Pope Urban VI (1378)
#Pope Boniface IX (1389)
#Pope Innocent VII (1404)
#Pope Gregory XII (1406)
#Pope Martin V (1417)
#Pope Eugene IV (1431)
#Pope Nicholas V (1447)
#Pope Callixtus III (1455)
#Pope Pius II (1458)
#Pope Paul II (1464)
#Pope Sixtus IV (1471)
#Pope Innocent VIII (1484)
#[[Pope Alexander VI]] (1492)
#Pope Pius III (1503)
#Pope [[Julius II]] (1503)
#Pope Leo X (1513)
#Pope Adrian VI (1522)
#Pope Clement VII (1523)
#Pope Paul III (1534)
#Pope Julius III (1550)
#Pope Marcellus II (1555)
#Pope Paul IV (1555)
#Pope Pius IV (1559)
#Pope Pius V (1566)
#[[Pope Gregory XIII]] (1572)
#Pope Sixtus V (1572)
#Pope Urban VII (1585)
#Pope Gregory XIV (1590)
#Pope Innocent IX (1591)
#Pope Clement VIII (1592)
#Pope Leo XI (1602)
#Pope Paul V (1605)
#Pope Gregory XV (1621)
#Pope Urban VIII (1623)
#Pope Innocent X (1644)
#Pope Alexander VII (1655)
#Pope Clement IX (1667)
#Pope Clement X (1670)
#Pope Innocent XI (1676)
#Pope Alexander VIII (1689)
#Pope Innocent XII (1691)
#Pope Clement XI (1700)
#Pope Innocent XIII (1721)
#Pope Benedict XIII (1724)
#Pope Clement XII (1730)
#Pope Benedict XIV (1740)
#Pope Clement XIII (1758)
#Pope Clement XIV (1769)
#Pope Pius VI (1775)
#Pope Pius VII (1800)
#Pope Leo XII (1823)
#Pope Pius VIII (1829)
#Pope Gregory XVI (1831)
#[[Pope Pius IX]] (1846)
#Pope Leo XIII (1878)
#[[Pope Pius X]] (1903)
#[[Pope Benedict XV]] (1914)
#[[Pius XI]] (1922)
#[[Pope Pius XII]] (1939)
#[[Pope John XXIII]] (1958)
#[[Pope Paul VI]] (1963)
#[[Pope John Paul I]] (1978)
#[[Pope John Paul II]] (1978)
#[[Pope Benedict XVI]] (2007)

[[Category:Catholic Church]]
[[Category:Popes|Popes]]
[[Category:Renaissance]]

Debate:Can any man live without some code of morality?

2011-03-24T19:33:06Z

Moshe:

{{debate}}
== Define Terms ==
Live: To retain the chemical, mental, and spiritual processes necessary to remain responsive to people and God.
Should be changed to "responsive to surroundings" - [[User:trig|trig]].

Code of Morality: Some set of absolute rules by which a man may live, based on worldview.(Feel free to edit definitions)

[[User:Mawest217|Mawest217]] 13:39, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

== No ==
'''No'''. What is [[morality]], after all, but a code of ''values''? A man without morality has no values. But surely every man values ''something.'' Even if all that a man values is himself, and what will make him happy, he still has values. With values comes morality.

Thus a man might ''claim'' to be [[Amoralism|amoral]], but in fact he does live by a code of morality that he himself has invented.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]] 16:17, 8 March 2007 (EST)

There's a Haiku in that:
Man might claim to be
amoral, but in fact he
does live by a code.
[[User:Marym|Marym]] 18:56, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

:Agreed, although I would further add that an 'amoral' man is still kind of a xxxx. [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 21:46, 11 November 2007 (EST)
::[[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]], watch your language on this family-friendly site.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]][[User talk:TerryH|Talk]] 21:57, 11 November 2007 (EST)
::: Sorry, just trying to inject some levity into the debate. :D [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 00:00, 12 November 2007 (EST)

My take on this is that morality has both an innate and an encultured aspect. The existence of a moral sense is "hardwired" like the ability to learn language. But although we are all born with the potential to develop as moral agents, the course that this development takes is partially determined by the experiences we have as we learn and grow. Theoretically, an individual might grow up without moral training of any kind. However, I would argue that all human societies possess a volume of more or less explicit moral teachings. Thus, even a society which habitually indulges in practises that we might find entirely immoral, does so in accordance with its own moral code. This is not to say that all moral codes are equal. The other (and more difficult) aspect of morality is the question of moral development: the morals of societies change over time, and, in particular, it is an undeniable fact that individuals and groups arise in all historical societies claiming to be in possession of a higher morality than the one that curently prevails. We thus always find ourselves in a marketplace of competing moralities, and it is not easy, as any conservative will acknowledge, to lay claim to moral infalibility: There are always alternative points of view. In Western societies, the existence of an alleged "moral vacuum" is largely the result of the absence of a centrally prescribed code of morals in certain spheres of life (above all sexuality and religion) where one did exist - at least nominally - until recently. Nonetheless, a broad consensus does continue to exist over many moral issues. [[User:HabamusPapem|HabamusPapem]] 17:50, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

No, of course not. You don't have to be religious to be moral or have a moral code. There are people who think morally it's ok to kill certain groups of people for whatever stupid reason they have, that's their moral. Although it's in opposition to all religions and philosophies. Morals are what one makes them, no one doesn't have them, sometimes people just don't share the same morals. --[[User:Ronnyreg|Ronnyreg]] 06:08, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

I know that [the determination of] the way of a man is not in himself; it is not in man [even in a strong man or in a man at his best] to direct his [own] steps. (Jeremiah 10:23, ''Amplified'') [[User:BibleBrown|BibleBrown]] 19:39, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

===postmodern morality===
In the Postmodern world that we live in, our morality is defined by whatever feels right and works for that individual person. There is no central absolute standard in order to judge. However, that is a defeating system, because what if my morality does not match up with someone elses? What if I decide to go rob a store, and that was genuinely what I thought was right to do. Of course that's an extreme example, because not many people in their right mind genuinely think it is the right thing to do. Even criminals know it's wrong, they just don't care. But where does this sense of morality come from? Our postmodern culture says that all viewpoints should be tolerated and no One should find dominance. However, those that hold to that position are philosophically contradicting themselves because they are enforcing postmodernism (their viewpoint) on everyone else. --[[User:Ymmotrojam|Ymmotrojam]] 12:53, 13 April 2007 (EDT)

The way the topic is phrased is an adjunct to one of the pillars of theistic-conservatism; the idea that morality is bequeathed from some (or many) institutions who "teach" mankind how to behave amongst ourselves. Though obviously ludicrous, as evidenced by the fact that (pre-religious) civilization would have never survived to it's current state without a rudimentary collective conscience banding communities together with an innate sense of right and wrong, it is not difficult to see how this becomes a standard principle of the right. -JBall

===semantic===
This debate depends on whether there is a universal 'right' way to behave in all situations, independent of any opinions on what it might be. I would argue that athiests, such as myself have ethics rather than morals, since their values of right and wrong stem from a regard for others as opposed to a rigid dogma. Consider last week in Iraq, a Kurdish girl was stoned to death by a mob, possibly including her own family, because she was judged to have broken her religions moral laws about sex. Evey member of that mob was behaving morally according to their religion and values, but few without a religion would say they behaved ethically. The Old Testament demands death by stoning for a girl in simmilar circumstances (disobeyed her parents, went with a guy of another creed against their wishes), but few modern Christians would actually advocate following the written word of the Bible, they'd make an interpretation of the dogma - the absolute moral - as they (arbitrarily) see fit. Morality is always subjective, but those without religion do not pretend to base their judgements of behavior on bronze age writings, but rather on a philosophy or social contract. [[User:Marym|Marym]] 19:31, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

===everybody else does it===
I agree with no. Even if the code of morality isn't religious based, there is still an idea of what is right or wrong and people conform to the idea of society as their basic moral code. Just as animals raise their young to do certain things like hide from a predator or attack their prey, society teaches people to behave in certain ways such as not killing others or not stealing or lying because there are negative results. It's the negative result that keeps a person "honest".
Regardless of whether a particular person follows the morality of a religon or not, he/she will follow the morality of the people in his/her own group. If he/she is a member of a church, then of course, the church's morality determines the persons. If the person is a member of a gang, then the morality of the gang will determine his/her morality.
It could be argued there is no universal right or wrong, only actions perceived as right or wrong and those make up the morality of the group.
Some cultures see abuse of wives to be moral, others see it as an atrocity. Some cultures see murder as acceptable if its against an opposing force, others see it as wrong no matter what. Some feel it is moral to raise animals for food, others feel animals shouldn't be used as food at all. Morality is in the 'eye of the beholder' in that way. Whatever the group of people that a person is a member of sees as moral will be the moral standards of that person. History has determined most of our morals as a society and the Bible has determined our morals as Christians. The two don't always overlap. --- John

===Animals don't have a moral code===
Humans are animals. All non-human animals live without a moral code. They have instinctive respect for the dead, and other such things that may be considered moral, but they have no moral code. These animals have survived just fine through the years. Since humans are just animals like any other, I see no reason why humans could not live without a moral code. -loveothersasyourself

I disagree: non-humans have a true sense of right and wrong, based on rules that are partly instinctive and partly learned. The only thing they do not have is written codes. Anyone who has trained a dog can tell you. A dog will, on occasion, show remorse for transgressions that nobody has discovered yet. A puppy will accept the fact that it has to learn rules of conduct from the elders and continue to uphold them when it becomes an elder. -[[User:trig|trig]]

===Define Live===
How do you define live? If live is defined as the action of retaining the chemical processes required for life, then yes, you can live without a code of morality. If we define live as to enjoy life here on earth, than no, you cannot have true happiness without a code of morality. If we define live as to have eternal life, than no, you cannot live without having some code of morality. [[User:Mawest217|Mawest217]] 13:31, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

<big>'''Define it first'''</big>

Some people keeping saying that they can be a moral/good person without God or religion. First, I want someone to define moral, or what is a "good person". This term "good person" sounds so good that no one ever bother to define it. I afraid no one can define it unless you have some standard about it. For moral, who is to say lying or killing is wrong unless there is a set of rules say it is wrong? Who is the rule giver? I mean, unless you fall in the culture of moral relativism, that there is no absolute, and so there is no way to tell between right and wrong. By the way, bible says God already put His laws into our heart so we can know right and wrong. But often time because of our sin covered our heart, we because foolish about it.[[User:Kmcheng|Kmcheng]] 11:55, 25 December 2008 (EST)

== Yes ==
Morality is a set of laws that determines the difference between right and wrong. Morality generally comes from religion, whether it be Islam, Christianity, Judism, etc. Morality often changes through time; what is deemed moral now may be vastly different than what is considered moral in the future. Many argue that it is indeed possible to live without morals, as morals are not usually found among other species. This, however, can easily be disputed and the idea is flawed.

Double Edge
{{Unsigned|Double Edge}}

::I have no religion. I also have a small blue card in a draw, labeled 'National Blood Service' and printed with my donor number. I am both an atheist, and a moral person, as evidenced by my willingness to walk half an hour across town and then return a little bit lighter and less fit for the benefit of others. I myself am proof that morality does not require religion. But in case one isn't enough, I am sure there will be several tens of millions of atheists who would be willing to testify to their own morality.

To save time, the standard counter for this like of argument is to substitute a narrower definition of morality, one which is sufficiently narrow and full of arbitary restrictions derived from religion that only a follower of that religion could meet it. You may, for example, argue that it doesn't matter if someone is a charitable blood-donor, campaigner for the poor, kind, loving, polite and a perfect example of all things good - if they arn't Christian, they cant be moral. Its circular, and its pathetic logic, but it works when fed through a confirmation bias. - Suricou
:::You have in fact shown that, though you believe in no [[God]], you still have values. Not everyone will accept those values as complete, but again, you have values. Your values are even more sophisticated than those of the purely self-centered man.
:::I did not ask whether man can live without [[God]]. He can, though I wouldn't advise it. Rather, I asked whether a man can live without ''values''. I maintain that ''every'' man has ''some'' standard of value, and therefore every man lives by ''some'' moral code.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]][[User talk:TerryH|Talk]] 20:15, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

'''Reply''' Perhaps an athiest can live with values. But is it not possible for a man to do what has the highest utility for him. His values are not consistant this. His only purpose is survival of the fittest. Therefore he has no standard for morality. Therefore he lives without a code of morality.

Double Edge

:If you define morality merely as "a code of laws dictated by [[God]]," then I suppose you're right. But an [[Objectivism|Objectivist]] wouldn't agree with you. Objectivism says that a code of morality is ''any'' code of values that a man accepts ''by choice.''

:So I suppose everything depends entirely on what morality is.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]] 13:45, 11 March 2007 (EDT)

It reflects poorly on the editors of Conservapedia to be phrasing questions using "MAN" instead of "PERSON" considering we are in the year 2007. Women are not meekly pouring their husbands scotch while their men engage in intellectual discussions on your site. I assure you, you have many women readers whom you would be advised to address should you wish to be considered a reliable and unbiased resource. {{Unsigned|Valerie}}

:::"Man" in this context means "human", not "male". It's your duty to educate yourself, not to complain because others won't conform to your ignorant understanding of the word.

:This is a separate issue, but I use ''man'' to mean "any human being." I don't hold with surrendering the common-gender contexts of certain words, for no better reason than that they are "masculine" forms. For the record, I don't believe that a woman (that is, a female) can live without morality--that is, totally without values--any more than can a man (that is, a male).--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]] 08:37, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

Absolutely, think of all the serial killers and mass murderers that go on almost forever that seem to have no morals or real code of living. As long as there is evil in the world there will be a need for morals.--[[User:Goose89|Goose]] 13:53, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:But what if the serial killer's or the mass murderer's personal moral code includes killing dozens of people. Is there an absolute moral code that we all must follow? And, if so, who decides what goes on that code? --[[User:David R|<<-David R->>]] 14:01, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

Who is to say what is moral and immoral? These two concepts technically do not exist. Interesting.
{{Unsigned|Gesiwuj}}

Yes. Just ask the president. [[User:Rellik|Rellik]] 02:10, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

== A Brief Aside ==

Heh heh. But that's not true; George Bush (both of them) did the best job they could, given the circumstances. What would you have done, given 9/11? Personally, I would've at least invaded Afghanistan, and I understand the concern about Iraq, though I wouldn't have nessarily made the same decisions. I don't condone (Ex) President Bush's actions, but I believe that he certainly did the best he could. --ConservatismisOK

== Yes (Cont.) ==

:``But what if the serial killer's or the mass murderer's personal moral code includes killing dozens of people.`` Historically, it often does, Dominican monks torturing and killing people during the Spanish Inquisition sincerely belived it was a moral *duty* of theirs, just as with Conquistadores slaughtering the peoples of South America. People seldom believe they are not (morally?) justified in their actions, no matter what those actions are. [[User:Marym|Marym]] 20:04, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

:::If your lack of understanding of this word doesn't meant that the concept doesn't exist, silly. [[User:Everwill|Everwill]] 09:32, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Double Edge, i am an atheist. I do not live in moral anarchy. I have very strong moral values. I do not kill, i think it is wrong to steal or to commit adultery and i think that tolerance is the greatest virtue. To suggest that simply because i belive that the scientific evidence points to the non-existence of a god, does not immediately mean that therefore i have no morals whatsoever, and you suggesting that it does causes me to feel slighted and misunderstood. Please think more carefully about what you are saying about another person before you say something so generalising again. Bolly Ottihw 18:16, 20 April 2007

Morlity can be seen as something like money. Money, really, does not exist. You cannot hold 'money' - you can hold an object of known value, but that is not money. You can hold currency - but what is it but paper and ink, or a piece of metal? Is money held in a bank, where it is nothing but bits in a computer? Money doesn't exist, and yet its still possible to buy things with it. Because, so long as people believe in it, it '''does''' exist - its existance comes only from that belief. Were everyone to suddenly stop accepting money tomorrow, money would simply disappear and all that currency return to being worthless paper. And morality, in the same way, does have a real existance - so long as enough people believe that it does, and are willing to act on that belief. - [[User:Suricou|Suricou]]

I am an atheist. If there are no gods then there can be no absolute right and wrong. Without gods where could absolute values come from? If there are no absolute rights and wrongs there can be no morality because morality (in my view) cannot be a relative concept. What use is morality if mine can be fundamentally different to yours and neither is superior? That is not what I understand morality to mean. In the end, if one is an atheist, the best you can do is to put it down to a matter of taste. Isn't that all that's left? It is not to my taste to torture babies for fun (and I hope it's not to your taste either). I can think that my taste is better than yours but I can't prove it. Religious people regard that as a totally unsatisfactory state of affairs and they may be right. But that is not an argument for the existence of gods. Maybe the universe is just unsatisfactory in some ways. --[[User:Horace|Horace]] 19:47, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

:Horace, why does non-existence of God imply non-existence of absolute values? --[[User:Andy|Andy]] 12:32, 17 November 2007 (EST)

===Semantics===
The debate question "Can any man live without some code of morality?" is more of a discussion topic that a debate question. That being said, I will play the game and treat this as actual debate:

I believe that any resolution to this debate would depend very heavily on the semantics. A "code" of morality denotes text, or minimally, language so specific that is could be dictated and recorded as text. So, if one admitted that the moral rules do not need to be codified, one would have to conclude "yes". Also, if one admitted that any man "lived" before written language, one would have to either conclude "yes" or hold that men are no longer as able as their predecessors.

The next word in the question that is critical to the debate is "without". The semantical question is 'What would be considered "with" a code?'. My best take on this is that 'with' implies that the written text be available to the man as a reference. Even if the man cannot read, it could still be "with" him if there were others that he could task to read it for him. But this may be too loose an interpretation. Wouldn't "with" also imply that the man considered the code to be of some positive value and be willing to conform at least some of his behavior to it?

Although the word "live" is also critical to the debate, I do not see it as being as pivotal as it may first appear. As "live" is defined, there is this "spiritual processes" requirement which itself begs for definition. Otherwise, one can conclude "no" simply by asserting that the required "spiritual processes" is something that evaporates without codified morality. I suspect that most people who would tend towards a "no" response, would also view all "spiritual processes" as being quite hardy - even to the point of being immortal.

--[[User:ScottB|ScottB]] 13:09, 3 December 2009 (EST)

== Yes and No ==

The question is whether it is possible to live without a moral ''code''. Absolutely. On the other hand there is the question of whether it is possible to live without ''morality''. I would say no. There are serial killers and people who do many evil things, but not living morally is different from living without morality. People cannot necessarily explain their morality; people may claim they have no morality; they may even believe it: that does not mean they are right. --[[User:Andy|Andy]] 12:30, 17 November 2007 (EST)

People have a moral code inscribed into their brains. A frightful existence would be had if people had no moral code at all. Survive, yes. Animals survive without one. We would survive without one. Couldn't get anything more civilized than a pack or small tribe. I am with Andy on this one. Everyone has a moral code - they say 'should', 'right', 'wrong', 'good', 'evil' -- all of these words are based on a universal moral code. You cannot say these words if you do not believe in a universal code. It would be illogical to do so. Because any code YOU might personally believe is reduced to an opinion along the lines of "my favorite color is blue" - which means zero to anyone else. Can I say that it is wrong for your favorite color to be blue? No. Can I say it is wrong for you to beat a child into the ground? Yes - not only can I say it I can hit you in the head with a brick if you do not cease from doing so. That is a universal code in action - we all know its wrong so we move to prevent it. -- Ted Griffith, 2011

== NO ==
I would say that proof that they can't is all those homosexual suicides we heard about a few months back. No morals, no life!--[[User:Moshe|Moshe]] 15:33, 24 March 2011 (EDT)

Conservative Judaism

2011-03-21T15:34:16Z

Moshe:

'''Conservative Judaism''' (also known as '''Masorti Judaism''' outside of America) is a denomination of [[Judaism]] that arose out of intellectual currents in [[Germany]] in the mid-19th century and took institutional form in the [[United States]] in the early 1900s.
[[category:Judaism]]
Conservative Judaism has its roots in the school of thought known as Positive-Historical Judaism, developed in 1850s [[Germany]] as a reaction to the more liberal religious positions taken by [[Reform Judaism]]. The term ''conservative'' was meant to signify that Jews should attempt to ''conserve'' Jewish tradition, rather than reform or abandon it, and the movement's adherents are politically [conservative]].
The Committee on Jewish Law and Standards is the central authority on halakha within Conservative Judaism. It is one of the most active and widely known committees in the Conservative movement's Rabbinical Assembly.
Sadly, today the Comitte is corrupted by [[liberal]] Rabbi Elliot N. Dorff. He and his followers have allowed sodomites to be ordained as Rabbis.
===Israel===
The first Masorti communities in the [[State of Israel]] were founded in 1979 by North American olim. The movement now has some 50 congregations in Israel, with a membership of approximately 50,000,[http://web.archive.org/web/20070522000543/http://www.masorti.org/about/about.html] and its progams reach some 125,000 each year. In addition to its kehillot and chavurot maintains a [[kibbutz]] (Kibbutz Hanaton), a [[moshav]] (Moshav Shorashim), Native Israelis and olim from non-English speaking countries now make up about 60% of the Israeli Masorti population, the remaining 40% are North American olim.[http://web.archive.org/web/20070519072540/http://www.masorti.org/about/faqs.html] The movement is supported by the Masorti Foundation for Conservative Judaism in Israel, an American organization which provides funding to Masorti programs.

* [http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/rl/jcu-index.html]
* [http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/02-03.html An intro to Conservative Judaism]
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20080408210854/http://uscj.org/Revised_Congregation5973.html Standards for Congregational Practice]
* [http://www.jtsa.edu/Conservative_Judaism/CJ_Folder/The_Sacred_Cluster.xml The Core Principles of Conservative Judaism]
*[http://www.masorti.org.il/en/page.php?pageId=109 Conservative Jews in Israel]
* [http://www.uscj.org/Formulating_Jewish_L5454.html Formulating Jewish Law For Our Time]
* [http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=Dstt4jyJGqwC&dq=%22guide+to+jewish+religious+practice%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=HIBak_JI44&sig=H8-RrIBkBLn-CRv85mqhg98Oe14 A Guide to Jewish Religious Practice – Official work on Jewish law]

Conservative Judaism

2011-03-21T15:33:09Z

Moshe:

'''Conservative Judaism''' (also known as '''Masorti Judaism''' outside of America) is a denomination of [[Judaism]] that arose out of intellectual currents in [[Germany]] in the mid-19th century and took institutional form in the [[United States]] in the early 1900s.
[[category:Judaism]]
Conservative Judaism has its roots in the school of thought known as Positive-Historical Judaism, developed in 1850s [[Germany]] as a reaction to the more liberal religious positions taken by [[Reform Judaism]]. The term ''conservative'' was meant to signify that Jews should attempt to ''conserve'' Jewish tradition, rather than reform or abandon it, and the movement's adherents are politically [conservative]].
The Committee on Jewish Law and Standards is the central authority on halakha within Conservative Judaism. It is one of the most active and widely known committees in the Conservative movement's Rabbinical Assembly.
Sadly, today the Comitte is corrupted by [[liberal]] Rabbi Elliot N. Dorff.
===Israel===
The first Masorti communities in the [[State of Israel]] were founded in 1979 by North American olim. The movement now has some 50 congregations in Israel, with a membership of approximately 50,000,[http://web.archive.org/web/20070522000543/http://www.masorti.org/about/about.html] and its progams reach some 125,000 each year. In addition to its kehillot and chavurot maintains a [[kibbutz]] (Kibbutz Hanaton), a [[moshav]] (Moshav Shorashim), Native Israelis and olim from non-English speaking countries now make up about 60% of the Israeli Masorti population, the remaining 40% are North American olim.[http://web.archive.org/web/20070519072540/http://www.masorti.org/about/faqs.html] The movement is supported by the Masorti Foundation for Conservative Judaism in Israel, an American organization which provides funding to Masorti programs.

* [http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/rl/jcu-index.html]
* [http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/02-03.html An intro to Conservative Judaism]
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20080408210854/http://uscj.org/Revised_Congregation5973.html Standards for Congregational Practice]
* [http://www.jtsa.edu/Conservative_Judaism/CJ_Folder/The_Sacred_Cluster.xml The Core Principles of Conservative Judaism]
*[http://www.masorti.org.il/en/page.php?pageId=109 Conservative Jews in Israel]
* [http://www.uscj.org/Formulating_Jewish_L5454.html Formulating Jewish Law For Our Time]
* [http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=Dstt4jyJGqwC&dq=%22guide+to+jewish+religious+practice%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=HIBak_JI44&sig=H8-RrIBkBLn-CRv85mqhg98Oe14 A Guide to Jewish Religious Practice – Official work on Jewish law]

Conservative Judaism

2011-03-21T15:31:21Z

Moshe:

'''Conservative Judaism''' (also known as '''Masorti Judaism''' outside of America) is a denomination of [[Judaism]] that arose out of intellectual currents in [[Germany]] in the mid-19th century and took institutional form in the [[United States]] in the early 1900s.
[[category:Judaism]]
Conservative Judaism has its roots in the school of thought known as Positive-Historical Judaism, developed in 1850s [[Germany]] as a reaction to the more liberal religious positions taken by [[Reform Judaism]]. The term ''conservative'' was meant to signify that Jews should attempt to ''conserve'' Jewish tradition, rather than reform or abandon it, and the movement's adherents are politically [conservative]].
The Committee on Jewish Law and Standards is the central authority on halakha within Conservative Judaism. It is one of the most active and widely known committees in the Conservative movement's Rabbinical Assembly.
===Israel===
The first Masorti communities in the [[State of Israel]] were founded in 1979 by North American olim. The movement now has some 50 congregations in Israel, with a membership of approximately 50,000,[http://web.archive.org/web/20070522000543/http://www.masorti.org/about/about.html] and its progams reach some 125,000 each year. In addition to its kehillot and chavurot maintains a [[kibbutz]] (Kibbutz Hanaton), a [[moshav]] (Moshav Shorashim), Native Israelis and olim from non-English speaking countries now make up about 60% of the Israeli Masorti population, the remaining 40% are North American olim.[http://web.archive.org/web/20070519072540/http://www.masorti.org/about/faqs.html] The movement is supported by the Masorti Foundation for Conservative Judaism in Israel, an American organization which provides funding to Masorti programs.

* [http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/rl/jcu-index.html]
* [http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/02-03.html An intro to Conservative Judaism]
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20080408210854/http://uscj.org/Revised_Congregation5973.html Standards for Congregational Practice]
* [http://www.jtsa.edu/Conservative_Judaism/CJ_Folder/The_Sacred_Cluster.xml The Core Principles of Conservative Judaism]
*[http://www.masorti.org.il/en/page.php?pageId=109 Conservative Jews in Israel]
* [http://www.uscj.org/Formulating_Jewish_L5454.html Formulating Jewish Law For Our Time]
* [http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=Dstt4jyJGqwC&dq=%22guide+to+jewish+religious+practice%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=HIBak_JI44&sig=H8-RrIBkBLn-CRv85mqhg98Oe14 A Guide to Jewish Religious Practice – Official work on Jewish law]

Fosbury Flop

2011-03-21T01:35:46Z

Moshe: I odn't believe that's a word

The '''Fosbury flop''' is a technique popular among athletes who compete in the high jump. The inventor, Dick Fosbury, used the technique to win an [[Olympic]] gold medal in 1968. It is an example of a [[Best conservative innovations|conservative innovation]] that [[liberals]] have tried to claim as their own after initially rejecting it because it defied their rigid, regulated way of thinking.

[[Category: Sports]]

Talk:Cherringtonshire

2011-03-20T01:45:48Z

Moshe: /* Remarkable thing about Cherringtonshire. */

== Remarkable thing about Cherringtonshire. ==

A Google search for the word yields zero hits. Obviously this article puts CP at the cutting edge of new knowledge about UK municipalities. [[User:Martyp|Martyp]] 19:27, 19 March 2011 (EDT)
:yes, but not even this site shows up on such a search--[[User:Moshe|Moshe]] 21:45, 19 March 2011 (EDT)

Conservative Judaism

2011-03-18T17:07:40Z

Moshe:

'''Conservative Judaism''' (also known as '''Masorti Judaism''' outside of America) is a denomination of [[Judaism]] that arose out of intellectual currents in [[Germany]] in the mid-19th century and took institutional form in the [[United States]] in the early 1900s.
[[category:Judaism]]
Conservative Judaism has its roots in the school of thought known as Positive-Historical Judaism, developed in 1850s [[Germany]] as a reaction to the more liberal religious positions taken by [[Reform Judaism]]. The term ''conservative'' was meant to signify that Jews should attempt to ''conserve'' Jewish tradition, rather than reform or abandon it, and the movement's adherents are politically [conservative]].
===Israel===
The first Masorti communities in the [[State of Israel]] were founded in 1979 by North American olim. The movement now has some 50 congregations in Israel, with a membership of approximately 50,000,[http://web.archive.org/web/20070522000543/http://www.masorti.org/about/about.html] and its progams reach some 125,000 each year. In addition to its kehillot and chavurot maintains a [[kibbutz]] (Kibbutz Hanaton), a [[moshav]] (Moshav Shorashim), Native Israelis and olim from non-English speaking countries now make up about 60% of the Israeli Masorti population, the remaining 40% are North American olim.[http://web.archive.org/web/20070519072540/http://www.masorti.org/about/faqs.html] The movement is supported by the Masorti Foundation for Conservative Judaism in Israel, an American organization which provides funding to Masorti programs.

* [http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/rl/jcu-index.html]
* [http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/02-03.html An intro to Conservative Judaism]
* [http://web.archive.org/web/20080408210854/http://uscj.org/Revised_Congregation5973.html Standards for Congregational Practice]
* [http://www.jtsa.edu/Conservative_Judaism/CJ_Folder/The_Sacred_Cluster.xml The Core Principles of Conservative Judaism]
*[http://www.masorti.org.il/en/page.php?pageId=109 Conservative Jews in Israel]
* [http://www.uscj.org/Formulating_Jewish_L5454.html Formulating Jewish Law For Our Time]
* [http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=Dstt4jyJGqwC&dq=%22guide+to+jewish+religious+practice%22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=HIBak_JI44&sig=H8-RrIBkBLn-CRv85mqhg98Oe14 A Guide to Jewish Religious Practice – Official work on Jewish law]

Talk:Essay:Israel vs genocide

2011-03-17T16:51:44Z

Moshe:

This looks a lot like an essay page. Would someone mind changing it to say that? [[User:JY23|JY23]] 17:54, 30 December 2008 (EST)

== My viewpoints ==

being a bit of an Israeli myself I hope I don't come off as biased but I just wanted to nitpick some things:

* Israel had some part in the cause of the Qassam rocket fire, now I know this is a pretty weak argument but the overall rejection of Gaza given it's opportunities for breading Terrorism is kinda negligent on Israel's part.

* The lack of Israel to send money to rebuild Gaza after it's raid is also pretty silly because that only helps to breed more hate and terrorism

I don't know the essay just seemed to portray Israel in some sort of eternal struggle and being completely innocent which isn't really the case :/

--[[User:ConservaCollege|ConservaCollege]] 16:33, 27 February 2009 (EST)
I do not believe you to be Israeli--[[User:Moshe|Moshe]] 12:51, 17 March 2011 (EDT)
== Dianne... ==

Do me a favor and format your references/citations properly, will you? What you do is enter the link as you have, enclose that link in single brackets, then highlight the link, including those brackets, and click the ref button on the edit screen. After the end of the link, and before the final bracket, you can insert 1 space and type the description, like this: http://www.xxxxxxx Time Magazine, August 12, 2009 Just check the other articles around for good examples! Thanks. --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 12:25, 3 June 2010 (EDT)

== very good work ==
I appreciate this essay--[[User:Moshe|Moshe]] 12:51, 17 March 2011 (EDT)

Conservative Judaism

2011-03-14T03:44:19Z

Moshe: just a start. more to come tomorrow!