Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Clement Attlee

2010-01-06T17:06:02Z

Marcdaniels: /* Natioanl defense */

{{Prime Minister
|image=Atlee.JPG
|seq=
|party=Labour Party
|term_start=1945
|term_end=1951
|previous=Winston Churchill
|next=Winston Churchill
|birth_date=January 3, 1883
|birth_place=Putney
|death_date=October 8, 1967
|death_place=
|spouse=
|spouse2=
|religion=[[Anglican]]
}}
'''Clement Attlee''', 1st Earl Attlee (1883 - 1967) was the Prime Minister of the [[United Kingdom]] from 1945 to 1951. He was leader of the [[Labour Party]], and is remembered as the leader of the socialist government that was elected in the aftermath of [[World War II]] and which nationalized British industry, gave independence to India, opposed Communism in the [[Cold War]], and was wracked with economic hardships. During the war, he served as [[Winston Churchill]]'s Deputy Prime Minister. He made Britain a junior partner of the [[United States]] in the [[Cold War]]--and indeed pushed the U.S. away from supporting Stalin's Communism.

His voice was quiet and thoughtful rather than frenzied and bombastic; he loved reasoned debate, even as opponents ridiculed his modesty. His party was weakened in the 1950 elections and defeated in 1951, as Churchill and the Conservatives returned to power.

==Career==
Attlee, the son of a prosperous solicitor (lawyer), was born in Putney, a middle-class London suburb. Educated at Haileybury (an upper class private school) and elite University College, Oxford, he was admitted to the bar in 1905 and practised law briefly. An intellectual, he was converted to socialism by reading the works of [[John Ruskin]] and [[William Morris]]. From 1907 to 1922 he lived in a settlement house in the impoverished East End of London. In 1907 he joined the Fabian Society and in 1908 the Independent Labour Party. In 1913-1923 he taught social science at the [[London School of Economics]]. He served in the First World War as a major in the Tank Corps; he was badly wounded and recovered. His political career began in 1919 with election as mayor of Stepney.

==Parliament==
Attlee was a born parliamentarian, paying close attention to rules and procedures. He held a large number of secondary and major posts before becoming Prime Minister in 1951.

He was elected to Parliament in 1922 as [[Labour Party]] member for Stepney and in 1924 he was made Undersecretary of State for War. In 1927 Attlee was a member of the Indian Statutory Commission under the chairmanship of Sir John Simon, and since he supported self-government for India he dissented from the report of the Joint Select Committee in 1933.
[[File:Attlee1.jpg|thumb|230px|left]]
He joined [[Ramsay MacDonald]]'s Labour cabinet as Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster, 1929-1931 (that is, he was minister without portfolio and did not run a department). His advice on strong action to counter the [[Great Depression]] was ignored. He became Postmaster General in 1931; this provided the only executive experience he had before the war, and shielded him for blame for the worsening economic crisis. It also taught him the folly of having politicians run business operations--a lesson he applied when Labour nationalized major industries after 1945 and turned them over to independent managers. Along with most Labour MP's, he broke with Ramsay MacDonald when the Macdonald joined with the [[Conservative Party|Conservatives]] to form the National Coalition government in 1931.

Attlee was one of the mere 46 Labour MPs to save his seat in the 1931 Conservative landslide; most of the top men had gone, so Attlee was left and he became deputy leader of the Labour party under George Lansbury. In 1935 Lansbury and Stafford Cripps both resigned rather that support League of Nations sanctions against Italy, and Attlee was left standing and became leader of the opposition. The party gained 100 seats in 1935, but was still heavily outnumbered.

Attlee opposed the policy of neutrality in the [[Spanish Civil War]] because he wanted Britain to help the left-wing side and defeat [[Franco]]. He visited the Communist-controlled [[International Brigades]] in Spain in 1937 to show his solidarity, though he generally opposed the Communists at home. He opposed [[appeasement]] of Germany and Italy and supported military rearmament.

As the [[Second World War]] opened in 1939 and turned against Britain in 1940, Conservative [[Winston Churchill]] became prime minister in 1940 and Attlee--who opposed any compromise with Hitler--joined Churchill's wartime coalition cabinet in the #2 role. He continued as Labour leader in Parliament><ref. He was at various times Lord Privy Seal, secretary of state for the dominions, deputy prime minister, and Lord President of the Council.</ref> Attlee played a role in all the major foreign and domestic policies of the war; he handled the nitty gritty while Churchill made speeches. Attlee left military matters to Churchill. When the war ednded in a great victory, the world was astonished to see Attlee defeat Churchill and the Conservatives in the general election of July 1945. In a great landslide labour won 393 seats against only 189 for the Conservatives; Liberals had 12 and minor groups elected 46. That is, with 50% of the popular vote Labour elected 61% of the MPs.

==Prime Minister==
[[File:Labour45b.jpg|thumb|235px|left|Iconic 1945 election poster]]

In the 1945 General Election Attlee led the Labour Party to its greatest and least expected triumph at the polls. The nation seemed ready for utopia, and Labour promised a utopian welfare state that would bring equality and prosperity to all. With [[Ernest Bevin]] the Foreign Minister as #2, and [[Hugh Dalton]] as Chancellor handling the nation's finances. Attlee assembled a powerful cabinet, and as a highly efficient committee chair he achieved unity and results. The perfect referee, he played no favourites and indulged in no back-biting, yet all the while kept Churchill and the Conservatives at bay.

Attlee explained his policies in 1947, noting that the chief challenge which faced Britain was the need for a transition from a war to a peace economy, and for a transition from capitalism to socialism. However the nation had been impoverished by the war and was unable to hold its increasingly expensive and restive British Empire. Attlee's solutions were to make India independent, to pull out of Palestine, to nationalize major industries and begin socialized medicine, and to turn to the sympathetic liberal government of President [[Harry Truman]] to pay for it all.
===Nationalization===
The guiding principle in [[nationalization]] was that industry would be operated just like a private business using "public corporations" and not directly by government departments. The old management remained in place. The old owners received treasury bonds covering the full market value of their holdings. The
role of labour was unchanged; collective bargaining remained the basis of negotiation with management and the right to strike was unaffected. The justification at the time was the need for modernization and efficiency, goals that appealed to the middle class.

Nationalization was voted by Parliament for 20% of the economy, including the Bank of England, coal mining, hospitals, the steel industry, communications, gas and electricity production, aviation, trucking, and railways. The owners were compensated. He began a comprehensive system of social security in 1948 with the National Insurance Act; the Industrial Injuries Act; the National Assistance Act (ending the old Poor Law); and the National Health Service Act, which provided free medical care for all. Public housing was also part of the new [[welfare state]] package.

At the time there was little controversy on most of the measures<ref> Socialized medicine ''was'' controversial at the time, as physicians were appalled at become salaried staffers and losing the status of independent professionals. A compromise was reached that alloed them to have private patients.</ref>; by 1987, however, the British realized that the argument for nationalization in terms of better efficiency had proven fallacious, and had privatized most industries, except for medicine and health.

Against the strong opposition of Labourites who disdained education as a frill, he pushed through a law to raise the school-leaving age to 15.

It was an exciting time to expand government operations and controls in all directions, even as the drabness of daily life continued, there were few luxuries, the middle class took a hit, and for the working class bread had to be rationed for the first time.

===Foreign and defense policy===
====Empire====
Cutting loose India (and Pakistan, Ceylon and Burma) in 1947 meant independence for 450 million colonials, and the end of a heavy drain on the British Treasury. The colonies were always money-losers, and with the upsurge in communal violence there was no honor to be saved by holding on any longer.
====Cold War====
Attlee vigorously opposed the Soviet Union and sought a strong alliance with the United States. He overcame a small pro-Soviet element in his party and a much larger "neutralist" element. To handle the dissidents he kept close personal control of the party machinery at the national, regional and local levels.<ref>Morgan, ''Labour in Power'' (1984), pp 63, 70</ref>
====American aid====
The sudden, unexpected cutoff of [[Lend Lease]] in September, 1945, was a hard blow to the treasury. Washington, however, was friendly and provided a huge low interest loan of $3.75 billion in 1946, followed by [[Marshall Plan]] ("European Recovery Program") grants of $3 billion. The money was essential,<ref>Morgan concludes, "It is inconceivable that the economic and social policies of the Attlee government could have survived without this massive platform." Morgan, ''Labour in Power'' p. 272</ref> and the Marshall plan in addition encouraged the rapid modernization of British industry and business practises.

By November 1948 the Marhsall Plan funding from Washington had helped to close the gap between imports and exports and to balance Britain's dollar account. Attlee could boast that Britain was making a substantial contribution to the restoration of the European economy under the inter-European payments scheme. He was a leading advocate of closer ties to Europe.

====National defense====
In terms of national defense, Attlee realized that the financial crisis limited his options. Britain could no longer subsidize the Greeks in their civil war against Communists, so Attlee convinced the Americans to take over this role, whist Truman did when he announced the [[Truman Plan]] in 1947. However he could and did build a strong military by passing the National Service Act of 1947 which for the first time in British history called for peacetime conscription to man the army. In 1947 Attlee, against strong opposition, decided to build an atomic bomb, giving Britain its own deterrence and a louder voice in world affairs.

===Political ideology===
Unexpectedly, Attlee found most of his trouble on the left. He took a hard line on industrial unrest, especially the numerous unofficial dock strikes defying the Transport and General Workers' Union formerly headed by Foreign Secretary [[Ernest Bevin]]. The strikes were led by Communists loyal to the Soviet Union which vehemently opposed Attlee's Cold War policies.

Although he beat down the far left, and did fulfill all the party's grandiose promises of a [[welfare state]], the unrelenting economic hardships and crises wore down the people, and deflated expectations, as the dream of a golden socialist utopia kept mysteriously receding.

The postwar Labour Party's democratic socialist ideology was expressed in its 1945 election manifesto and its 1949 policy statement, "Labour Believes in Britain." There was consensus both in the Labour party's national executive committee and at party conferences on a definition of socialism emphasizing moral as well as material improvement. Despite the Attlee government's daunting economic problems, he remained committed to rebuilding British society as an ethical commonwealth, using public ownership and controls to abolish extremes of wealth and poverty. Labour ideology and policies contrasted sharply with the contemporary Conservative Party's defense of individualism and inequality and its exploitation of public discontent with bureaucratic interference.<ref> Martin Francis, "Economics and Ethics: The Nature of Labour's Socialism, 1945-1951," ''Twentieth Century British History'' 1995 6(2): 220-243. </ref>

Attlee sought consensus and could never be a dictator. Deeply held political values prevented his socialism from turning into tyranny. The Labour Party was committed to parliamentary sovereignty, consensual "tripartism" (government, employers and unions), free collective bargaining over wages, and use of of public corporations that were not directly controlled by the government or the unions.<ref> J. D. Tomlinson, "The Iron Quadrilateral: Political Obstacles to Economic Reform under the Attlee Government," ''Journal Of British Studies'' 1995 34(1): 90-111. </Ref>

===Losses mount===
Labour was stung when middle class housewives began to organize against its policies. The "tripartite" system of power sharing among government, business and unions left the consumer in the cold, and they increasingly resented it. The British Housewives' League (BHL) was effective in speaking for consumers and thereby helped shift the terms of the debate and set up the Labour party defeat in 1951. BHL women protested continuing rationing during 1946-47. Their uniqueness as a political group was in making domesticity into an ideology to combat what they perceived as Labour totalitarianism and the Conservatives who appeased it.<ref> James Hinton, "Militant Housewives: The British Housewives' League and the Attlee Government," ''History Workshop Journal'' 1994 (38): 128-156. </ref>

Labour lost many seats in the 1950 election, retaining a narrow majority. Two top leaders [[Aneurin Bevan]] and [[Harold Wilson]] resigned in protest from Attlee's government when he introduced small fees in the previously free health system. Labour lost power in 1951 as the Conservatives won and Churchill returned to power. Attlee stayed on as leader until the next defeat in 1955. Churchill made him an Earl and he was active in the [[House of Lords]] until his death.
==Personality==
Attlee was a quiet, shy intellectual who seemed out of place in a world of tyrants, charismatic leaders and bullying union bosses. The ridicule came from left and right Nye Bevan on the left dubbed him 'a desiccated calculating machine.' Others compared him to 'a little mouse', 'a poor little rabbit', or as George Orwell put it, "a recently dead fish, before it has had time to stiffen'. [[King George VI]] joked that the taciturn little man should be called Clam, not Clem, Attlee. The American press said he was `the dullest man in English politics'. Churchill put it best: Attlee was not only a modest man with plenty to be modest about, but 'a sheep in sheep's clothing'.

The story was told of an empty taxi arriving at 10 Downing Street, out of which stepped Mr Attlee. Britons liked him better than his oarty or its policies, but he failed to develop the sort of public relations campaign needed to convince Britons of the need for his nationalisation program. The materials his fgvernment issued were too full of statistics and numbing detail. His timing was clumsy when calling the elections in 1950 and 1951.

Historians have also joined the chorus, concluding Attlee was `underwhelming' rather than overwhelming and that he possessed all the charisma of a gerbil.

Yet Attlee was clearheaded and determined, and outworked everyone else. Although he came to power by default, he maneuvered so that his enemies knocked each other out, with Attlee always left standing. His formidable powers of concentration and analysis stood him in good stead when it came time to formulate the major laws that characterised his government.

==Further reading==
===Biographical===
* Brookshire, Jerry H. ''Clement Attlee.'' (1996). 257 pp.
* Burridge, Trevor. ''Clement Attlee: A Political Biography.'' (1986). 401 pp.
* Harris, Kenneth. ''Attlee.'' (1983). 630 pp.
* Howell, David. ''Attlee'' (British Prime Ministers of the 20th Century) (2006), good brief biography [http://www.amazon.com/Attlee-British-Prime-Ministers-Century/dp/1904950647/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243774544&sr=1-4 excerpt and text search]
* Radice, Giles. ''The Tortoise and the Hares: Attlee, Bevin, Cripps, Dalton, Morrison'' (2008)
* Swift, John. ''Labour in Crisis: Clement Attlee and the Labour Party in Opposition, 1931-1940'' (2001)
===Party and national studies===
* Brooke, Stephen. ''Labour's War: The Labour Party during the Second World War'' (1992)
* Davies, Andrew. ''To Build a New Jerusalem: The British Labour Party from Keir Hardie to Tony Blair'' (1996)
* Fyrth, Jim, ed. ''Labour's High Noon: The Government and the Economy 1945-51'' (1993),
* Hennessy, Peter. ''Never Again: Britain 1945-1951'' (2nd ed 2006), 560pp; detailed social history
* Kynaston, David. ''Austerity Britain, 1945-1951'' (2008), 704pp; highly detailed, well-written social history
* Mercer, Helen. ''Labour Governments and Private Industry: The Experience of 1945-1951'' (1992)
* Moore, R. J. ''Escape from Empire: The Attlee Government and the Indian Problem'' (1983),
* Morgan, Kenneth O. ''Morgan's Labour in Power 1945-51'' (1984)
* Morgan, Kenneth O. ''Britain since 1945: The People's Peace'' (2001)
* Pelling, Henry. ''The Labour Government 1945-51'' (1984),
* Worley, Matthew. ''Labour inside the Gate: A History of the British Labour Party between the Wars'' (2005),

==References==
<References/>

[[Category:United Kingdom Prime Ministers]]
[[Category:British History]]
[[Category:Socialism]]
[[Category:Cold War]]
[[Category:British Empire]]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Attlee, Clement}}

Desert

2009-02-03T23:35:12Z

Marcdaniels: The age seems to be contested - see http://www.arrivalofthefittest.com/seminar1.html

[[Image:desert-7.jpg|right|250px|thumb]]
'''Deserts''' are arid regions of extreme dryness, characteristically receiving less than 5 inches of [[precipitation]] a year. In some deserts, the amount of [[evaporation]] is greater than the amount of rainfall, making them very dry. Semi-arid deserts average 5 to 10 inches of annual precipitation. Desert moisture typically occurs in brief intervals and is unpredictable from year to year. One-third of the earth is arid to semi-arid (being either ''desert'' or ''semidesert'').

Evaporation contributes greatly to a desert's aridity. In some deserts, the amount of water evaporating exceeds the amount of rainfall making that desert very dry. Rising air cools and can hold less moisture, producing clouds and precipitation; falling air warms, absorbing moisture. Areas with few clouds, bodies of water and little vegetation absorb most of the sun's radiation, thus heating the air at the soil surface. More humid areas deflect heat in clouds, water and vegetation, remaining cooler. High wind in open country also contributes to evaporation.

Locations of deserts have changed throughout the years. Modern desert regions are centered in the [[horse latitudes]], typically straddling the [[Tropic of Cancer]] and the [[Tropic of Capricorn]], between 15 and 30 degrees north and south of the [[equator]]. Deserts can also occur at near-polar latitudes, for example the interior of [[Iceland]].

Because they are poised in such harsh extremes of heat and aridity, deserts are among the most fragile [[ecosystem]]s on the planet.

[[Category:Ecology]]

Point mutation

2009-02-03T23:30:23Z

Marcdaniels:

A '''point mutation''' is the most limited type of [[mutation]], whereby a single base [[nucleotide]] is replaced with another nucleotide. Sometimes the expression "point mutation" can also include the addition or subtraction of a single base pair, which is also referred to as an "indel".

The sickle-cell disease is caused by a single point mutation in one allele of the beta [[hemoglobin]] gene, whereby a CCT codon is converted into TCT. The TCT then mistakenly encodes the [[amino acid]] serine instead of proline.

A point mutation cannot add new information to the genome. <ref>AIG article [http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/02/01/feedback-new-information]</ref>

{{reflist}}

[[Category:genetics]]
[[Category:diseases]]

Talk:Essay: KAL 007 Survivors and Gulags of Russia

2009-02-03T23:28:15Z

Marcdaniels: New page: The idea that there were any survivors of KAL 007, or that they were taken to Soviet labor camps, seems a very tall tale. The supporting evidence is very weak. Should this article be inclu...

The idea that there were any survivors of KAL 007, or that they were taken to Soviet labor camps, seems a very tall tale. The supporting evidence is very weak. Should this article be included? [[User:Marcdaniels|marcdaniels]] 18:28, 3 February 2009 (EST)

Ronan Point

2009-02-03T23:26:07Z

Marcdaniels:

'''Ronan Point''' was a 23-storey high-rise block of flats (apartment block), one of a number of blocks built by [[industrialised building]] methods in the [[London]] Borough of [[Newham]] between 1966 and 1968.

Early in the morning of 16 May 1968, only a few weeks after it was first occupied, a tenant, Mrs Ivy Hodge, lit the gas cooker in the kitchen of her 18th-storey flat, triggering an explosion that caused the progressive collapse of the south-east corner of the tower. Because of the early hour of the explosion, and the fact that the collapse mainly affected kitchens, only 5 of the 160 residents were killed (Mrs Hodge survived); but the disaster, and the findings of the subsequent judicial inquiry, were major factors in ending Britain's 'high-rise boom' in public housing provision. The report found serious shortcomings in the design of blocks (to inadequate and outdated building regulations), in construction management and in the quality and supervision of workmanship.<ref>BBC coverage[http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/16/newsid_2514000/2514277.stm]</ref>

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Architecture]]
[[Category:Urban Planning]]

Ronan Point

2009-02-03T23:25:32Z

Marcdaniels:

'''Ronan Point''' was a 23-storey high-rise block of flats (apartment block), one of a number of blocks built by [[industrialised building]] methods in the [[London]] Borough of [[Newham]] between 1966 and 1968.

Early in the morning of 16 May 1968, only a few weeks after it was first occupied, a tenant, Mrs Ivy Hodge, lit the gas cooker in the kitchen of her 18th-storey flat, triggering an explosion that caused the progressive collapse of the south-east corner of the tower. Because of the early hour of the explosion, and the fact that the collapse mainly affected kitchens, only 5 of the 160 residents were killed (Mrs Hodge survived); but the disaster, and the findings of the subsequent judicial inquiry, were major factors in ending Britain's 'high-rise boom' in public housing provision. The report found serious shortcomings in the design of blocks (to inadequate and outdated building regulations), in construction management and in the quality and supervision of workmanship.<ref>BBC coverage[http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/16/newsid_2514000/2514277.stm]</ref>

[[Category:Architecture]]
[[Category:Urban Planning]]

Ronan Point

2009-02-03T23:24:43Z

Marcdaniels:

'''Ronan Point''' was a 23-storey high-rise block of flats (apartment block), one of a number of blocks built by [[industrialised building]] methods in the [[London]] Borough of [[Newham]] between 1966 and 1968.

Early in the morning of 16 May 1968, only a few weeks after it was first occupied, a tenant, Mrs Ivy Hodge, lit the gas cooker in the kitchen of her 18th-storey flat, triggering an explosion that caused the progressive collapse of the south-east corner of the tower. Because of the early hour of the explosion, and the fact that the collapse mainly affected kitchens, only 5 of the 160 residents were killed (Mrs Hodge survived); but the disaster, and the findings of the subsequent judicial inquiry, were major factors in ending Britain's 'high-rise boom' in public housing provision. The report found serious shortcomings in the design of blocks (to inadequate and outdated building regulations), in construction management and in the quality and supervision of workmanship.<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/may/16/newsid_2514000/2514277.stm]</ref>

[[Category:Architecture]]
[[Category:Urban Planning]]

Boris Bykov

2009-02-03T23:21:43Z

Marcdaniels:

{| cellpadding="1" style="float: right; border: 1px solid #8888aa; background: #f7f8ff; padding: 5px; font-size: 85%; margin: 0 15px 0 15px;"
| style="background: #ccf; text-align: center;" | '''This article is part of the''' '''[[Venona project|Venona]]''' '''series.'''
|-
| style="text-align: center;"|[[KGB]]
|-
| style="text-align: center;"|[[Ware group]]
|-
|style="border-bottom: 1px solid #ccc"|
|-
| style="text-align: center;"|[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Template:Ushistory&action=edit Edit this box]
|}

'''Boris Yakovlevich Bukov''', also '''Boris Bykov''' ("'''Sasha'''") Regiment Comissar (15 November 1935) was a member of the Communist Party member since 1919. Bykov was head of the underground apparatus with which [[Whittaker Chambers]] and [[Alger Hiss]] were connected.

Graduated from Commanders' Upgrading Training School of RAZVEDUPR of the [[Red Army Staff]] in 1929, Red Army Military Academy of Chemical Defense, military-industrial department (September 1932 - February 1935), Red Army Stalin Military Academy of Mechanization and Motorization. Bykov was fluent in German. Bukov served as an Officer of Soviet Military Intelligence ([[GRU]]) from 1920-1941. Worked in Germany. In 1928 Bykov became the section chief of the 2nd department of Razvedupr; assistant chief of the 2nd department of Razvedupr of the Red Army Staff.

In 1935 Bykov left abroad and served as ''Illegal'' [e.g. 'undercover'] ''Rezident'' of Razvedupr in the United States from 1936 to 1939.

Lecturer (agent-operation cycle) of the Higher Special School of the Red Army Staff from July 1939 to September 1940. Senior Teacher of the chair of intelligence from September 1940 to June 1941.

After the [[Operation Barbarossa|German invasion of the Soviet Union]] in June 1941, he headed the chair of foreign countries study of the Second Moscow State Pedagogical Institute of Foreign Languages which later became known as the Institute of Military Interpreters.

==Reference==
* Lurie, V.M. and Kochick, V.Y., GRU: Cases and People. "OLMA-PRESS", St. Petersburg - Moscow, 2003, p.356 (in Russian).
* W. G. Krivitsky, ''In Stalin’s Secret Service'', New York: Enigma Books, (2000), 236.
* Tanenhaus, ''Whittaker Chambers: A Biography'', New York: Random House, (1997), 548, n. 16.
* Allen Weinstein, ''Perjury: The Hiss-Chambers Case'', New York: Random House, (Ed. 1997), pgs. 204-208, 211, 215, 217, 227, 277.

{{DEFAULTSORT:Bykov, Boris}}
[[Category:KGB]]

Down syndrome

2009-02-03T22:59:18Z

Marcdaniels:

'''Down syndrome''' (also written as '''Down's syndrome''', technical name '''Trisomy 21'''<ref>http://www.ds-health.com/trisomy.htm</ref>) is a genetic disorder caused by an extra copy of [[chromosome]] 21. The greatest risk factor for having a child with Down syndrome is increased maternal (and, to a lesser extent, paternal) age.

The name comes from [[British]] [[physician]] [[John Langdom Down]], who described the syndrome in his [[1862]] paper, "Observations on an Ethnic Classification of Idiots". Down conjectured that the syndrome was a "degeneracy" of [[caucasians]] to [[mongols]] (the [[mongolian]] race was one of the five racial classifications commonly used at the time), and the term '''mongolism''' was inpired by his paper. Currently, the terms "mongolism" and "mongoloid" are considered offensive. 

The most important medical aspect of Down syndrome is [[mental retardation]]. Individuals with Down syndrome have mild to severe mental retardation. It is impossible to reliably predict what the eventual level of function of a child with Down syndrome will be.

Other characteristics of Down syndrome (not all of which affect every individual who has Down's) are :
* Single [[transverse palmar crease]]
* Epicanthic folds and oblique eye opening
* Smaller limbs
* Weak muscle tone
* Enlarged, protruding [[tongue]]
* [[Congenital heart defect]]
* [[Gastroesophageal reflux disease]]
* [[Otitis]] and hearing deficits
* [[Sleep apnea]]
* [[Thyroid]] hormone problems
* [[Leukemia]]
* Early onset [[Alzheimer's disease]]

There is some evidence that people with Down syndrome are at higher risk than others of developing leukemia, but lower risk of developing other cancers<ref>[http://www.downsyn.com/cancer.php]</ref>.

The greatest risk factor in is increased maternal age, the majority of children with Down syndrome are born to mothers under the age of 35, because the vast majority of children as a whole are born to younger mothers.

[[Category:Genetics]]
[[Category:Syndromes]]

Washington v. Glucksberg

2009-02-03T22:51:09Z

Marcdaniels:

In '''''Washington v. Glucksberg''''', 521 U.S. 702 (1997), the [[U.S. Supreme Court]] held unanimously that the State of [[Washington]]'s prohibition against "causing" or "aiding" a suicide does not violate the [[Fourteenth Amendment]] to the [[United States Constitution]]<ref>[http://www.enfacto.com/case/U.S./521/702/]</ref>.

Chief Justice [[William Rehnquist]] wrote the opinion for the Court, and the [[liberal]] wing of Justices O'Connor, Souter, Ginsburg, Breyer, and Stevens concurred in a separate opinion. The Court reversed the decision of an ''en banc'' sitting of the [[Ninth Circuit]]:

:Throughout the Nation, Americans are engaged in an earnest and profound debate about the morality, legality, and practicality of physician-assisted suicide. Our holding permits this debate to continue, as it should in a democratic society. The decision of the en banc Court of Appeals is reversed, and the case is remanded for further proceedings consistent with this opinion.

[[Category:United States Supreme Court Cases]]

Block grants

2009-02-03T22:49:41Z

Marcdaniels:

'''Block grants''' are [[federal]] funds provided to states without specific limitations as to how the money should be spent. States then have a wide degree of discretion to spend on various areas such as law enforcement as they think best, subject to a limited degree of federal oversight.<ref>[http://www.urban.org/publications/310991.html]</ref>
[[category:United States Government]]

Debate:Restoring the USA image in the world, just a fancy phrase that means zilch?

2009-02-03T22:47:33Z

Marcdaniels:

{{Unofficial}}
{{Debate}}

Restoring USA image in the world, a common liberal talking point. They have determined that America, with it unilateral approach on Iraq has damaged our image. False. The image has been damaged for some time now. First, is was a coalition of the willing, not the USA alone. Second, now that the Europeans have chimed into the Iraq debate as America wrong, liberals see it as the whole world hates America now. Before 9/11, extremists plotted to kill Americans. Why? We are the richest nation on Earth, do you think others hate us for that? Many nations are appalled at our pornagraphic industry that we export to them, can that be a part of it? Our support of Israel? We give women equal rights and a voice, many women in the world can't even leave their house alone or without a veil or go to school. My belief, and I am always correct, that liberals have found a hammer to hit conservatives with because the Europeans dislike our capitalism, and we are against socialism.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 18:20, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Update, Europe heading toward pro-American leaders. Victory in Germany by Merkel replacing anti-American Schroeder. Now victory in France replacing Chirac. Coupled with victory by Harper in Canada, it now seems we have support of major nations that took a direct stand against the USA foreign policy. Restoring the USA image in the world has worked itself out without the Democrats help.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 10:16, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

I'm surprised to hear your suggestion that the US is disliked due to its pornography and equal rights, given that -- at least where I've been -- the US is regarded as an extremely conservative, puritanical and "old-school" nation. I can't comment on Europe, but popular opinion in Australia is pretty anti-American (especially recently). The stereotypes are, accurate or not, that the US is always intruding into other countries and that its citizens are prudes with low life expectancy but high crime, poverty and obesity rates. One particular thing that damages the US' image is its patriotism; when everyone is displaying the flag constantly, mentioning that the US is the richest nation on earth, and ending speeches with "God bless America", the entire nation comes off as conceited.

The US Presidential election gets regular coverage on Australian news, and while I personally don't support him, I can say that if Barack Obama is elected anti-American sentiment will drastically decrease, as he is almost universally liked. [[User:MrGrieves|MrGrieves]] 06:38, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

Obama was elected - has anti-US sentiment really decreased? They were burning pictures of him in Iran within days [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article5510665.ece] [[User:Marcdaniels|marcdaniels]] 17:47, 3 February 2009 (EST)

Scientific notation

2009-02-03T22:45:44Z

Marcdaniels:

'''Scientific notation''' is the mathematical concept of writing out [[number]]s in the form <math>a * 10^b</math> (''a'' times 10 to the power of ''b''). For example, the number 123 in scientific notation would be written as 1.23 * 102. This notation allows one to write large numbers in an efficient form and to easily compare numbers based on exponents. <ref>[http://www.nyu.edu/pages/mathmol/textbook/scinot.html</ref>

[[Category:Mathematics]]
[[Category:Science]]

Ahdeek

2009-02-03T22:37:30Z

Marcdaniels:

'''Ahdeek'''—a single-screw wooden-hulled 38 foot pleasure boat built in 1916 for H. V. Schieren, at Morris Heights, [[New York]], by the Charles L. Seabury and Gas Engine and Power Co.—was inspected in the 3d Naval District on 7 April 1918 for possible use as an "aeronautic patrol" boat. Ordered taken over on 12 June 1918 and assigned the identification number SP-2589, Ahdeek did not again appear in extant records until 23 June 1919 when a dispatch directed the Commandant, 3d Naval District, to ship her and Eslelle (SP-747) to the Culver Naval School, Culver, Ind. The next mention of her came with notice of her name's being struck from the Navy list on 25 October 1933.<ref>Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships [http://www.history.navy.mil/danfs/a4/ahdeek.htm]</ref><ref>Navy Historical Center [http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-civil/civsh-a/ahdeek.htm]</ref>

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Ships]]

Muslim Brotherhood

2009-02-03T09:29:43Z

Marcdaniels:

'''The Muslim Brotherhood''' (officially known as '''Jamiat al-Ikhwan al-Muslim''') is the longest running [[Islam]]ic group in the [[Middle East]], and has advocated [[Jihad]]<ref name="bos">http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/03/25/hear_out_muslim_brotherhood/</ref>. The organization which grew to encompass over 70 countries<ref name="ummah">http://www.ummah.net/ikhwan/</ref> including [[Syria]], [[Sudan]], and other Arab countries, was founded in [[Egypt]] by Hasan al-Banna in 1928 and has been joined by many high-profile Islamic terrorist including the founder of modern day [[jihad]]; [[Sayyid Qutb]], [[Al-Qaeda]] leader; [[Osama Bin Laden]], and Egyptian terrorist mastermind and second in command of Al-Qaeda; [[Ayman Al-Zawahiri]]<ref> The Looming Tower, al-Qaeda and the road to 9/11 (book), by Lawrence Wright</ref>.

Although the Brotherhood was disbanded in 1954 after a botched attempt to assassinate Egyptian President [[Gamal Abdel Nasser|Abdul Nasser]], it remains operating, although less militantly. It has given rise to new more violent militias including [[Hamas]], Gama’a al-Islamiya, and Islamic Jihad<ref name="bos" />.

Despite being illegal under Egyptian law, the Muslim Brotherhood has gained success in Egypt’s parliamentary elections, wining 20 percent of the assembly's seats in 2005<ref name="bos" />.

==Goals==
The Muslim Brotherhoods’ original goal was to found a total Islamic state which was not influenced by western countries and would fellow strictly the teachings of the [[Koran]]. The organization has also been a leader indicting [[terrorism]] and [[propaganda]] against [[Israel]] and [[Jew]]s. The Muslim Brotherhood's theme is:
<blockquote>
Allah is our objective.
"The messenger is our leader.
Quran is our law.
Jihad is our way.
Dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope.<ref name="ummah" />"
</blockquote>

==References==
<references/>
[[Category: Middle East Politics]]
[[Category: Terrorism]]
[[Category:Islam]]

Tony Blair

2009-02-03T09:28:15Z

Marcdaniels:

{{Prime Minister
|image=Tblair.jpg
|seq=73
|term_start=May 2 1997
|term_end=June 24 2007
|previous=John Major
|party=Labour Party
|next=Gordon Brown
|birth_date=May 6 1953
|birth_place=Edinburgh
|death_date=
|death_place=
|spouse=[[Cherie Blair|Cherie Booth]]
|spouse2=
|religion=[[Roman Catholic]]
}}
'''Anthony Charles Lynton Blair''', more commonly known as '''Tony Blair''', (born May 6, 1953) is a former [[Prime Minister]] of the [[United Kingdom]]. The [[Labour Party]]'s longest-serving Prime Minister, he served from May 2, 1997 to June 27, 2007, succeeding the Conservative Party's [[John Major]] and preceding [[Gordon Brown]]. Blair is also the only person to have led the Labour Party to three consecutive general election victories, and the only Labour Prime Minister to serve more than one full consecutive term.

He was elected to the Labour Party leadership in 1994 following the unexpected death of his predecessor, John Smith. As well as being leader of the Labour Party and Prime Minister, Blair also served as the [[Member of Parliament|MP]] for Sedgefield, a constituency in [[County Durham]] in north-east England.

While the Labour Party is a self-described "democratic, [[socialist]] party"<ref>[http://www.labour.org.uk/how_we_work Labour: How we work]</ref>, Blair coined the phrases "[[New Labour]]" and "[[The Third Way]]" to distinguish his own pro-[[business]] policies from the more [[collectivist]] platform of his predecessors. He was criticized by some more left-wing members of the Labour Party for "selling out" to conservative thinking, particularly in his support for the [[United States]] in the [[Iraq War]]. On the other hand, Blair's policies were decidedly [[liberal]] by American standards: they have included increases in taxation, increases in government spending (particularly on public schools and Britain's [[National Health Service|public healthcare system]]), the introduction and subsequent increases of a minimum wage, and promotion of the [[homosexual agenda]].

Following his departure from office, Blair converted to [[Roman Catholicism]]- a conversion he had not previously made for fear of political repercussions

== Personal ==
The son of a barrister and lecturer Leo Blair, Tony Blair was born in [[Edinburgh]], but spent most of his childhood in Durham. At the age of 14 he returned to Edinburgh to finish his education at Fettes College. Blair was known as a cheeky, rebellious, and argumentative schoolboy, and at 17 he was threatened with expulsion for persistently breaking school rules.<ref name="bbc">[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/6506365.stm The Tony Blair Story] BBC News 10 May 2007</ref>. After leaving Fettes with three A levels he studied law at [[Oxford University]], and went on to become a barrister (Lincoln's Inn) himself, before entering politics. Blair married his wife, [[Liverpool]]-born Cherie Booth QC a barrister and daughter of the actor Tony Booth, in 1980, and they have four children.

Blair is a competent guitar player and at university was a member of a rock band called Ugly Rumours. His favourite music includes [[The Beatles]], [[The Rolling Stones]], [[Led Zeppelin]], [[Free (band)|Free]], [[Bruce Springsteen]], [[U2]], [[Coldplay]], [[The Foo Fighters]], and [[Simply Red]].<ref name="bbc" />

While Blair rarely discusses his religious faith in public - and had been advised by his spokesman Alistair Campbell that "We don't do God, Mate" <ref>[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/05/05/dl0501.xml A Question of Faith] Daily Telegraph 5 May 2003</ref> - he is a convinced Christian. His wife Cherie is a Catholic and Blair converted to Catholicism in 2007.<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7157409.stm Tony Blair joins Catholic Church] BBC News 22 December 2007</ref>

==Blair's political career==

A combination of the Labour Party's new-found moderation, Blair's personal popularity and the deep unpopularity of the Conservatives under [[John Major]] resulted in a landslide victory for Blair and his party in the 1997 general [[election]], ending 18 years of [[Conservative]] government. Labour easily won re-election in 2001 and in 2005, although with losses.

In December 2006, Blair became the first active Prime Minister to be interviewed in a police investigation, <ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/6292033.stm Honours police quizzed McConnell] BBC News 23 January 2007</ref> and again in January 2007<ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6320399.stm Blair interviewed again by police] BBC News 1 February 2007</ref>, over allegations he had illegally ''nominated'' donors to the Labour Party for peerages - the so called "Cash for Honours" scandal. The government stressed that he was being interviewed only as a witness however, and the nominations of the money lenders were rejected by the independent appointments' commission.<ref name="bbc" /> However the allegations were a popular story in the media, and dogged his final months in office. Tony Blair was superseded by [[Gordon Brown]] as Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in June 2007.

==Blair's policies==

During Blair's tenure as Prime Minister, the [[Labour party|Labour]] government made the Bank of England independent, allowing them to set the nation's interest rates (which had previously been set by the Chancellor of the Exchequer), and has introduced a national [[minimum wage]], in 1998, which has gradually been increased over time. Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have gained their own legislatures, and limited attempts have been made to devolve power to the regions of England (although outside of [[London]] these have not been successful). Blair's government has also banned fox-hunting, cigarette smoking in public places and public demonstrations within 1 kilometre of Parliament, as well as preparing the way for a national identity card and increased the time that suspects can be held in police custody without charge to 28 days. His government was also notable for legislating an equal age of consent for homosexuals, civil partnership laws, and the abolition of Clause 28 (a measure introduced by the previous Conservative administration which prohibited the promotion of homosexuality in schools).

One of the most controversial aspects of Blair's premiership was been his commitment to and support of the Iraq war, which strongly divided opinion, both in Parliament and among the British people. His strong support of America and President [[George W. Bush]] in particular have set him apart from most European leaders, especially with the parties of the left, including his own Labour Party, which have shown opposition to America's policies. This came at considerable political cost with his own popularity suffering greatly, and the Government lost considerable support in the 2005 general election as a result.

==Blair and the media==

In the 1990s in particular, Blair was seen as a charismatic leader, with formidable media performing skills. His most famous television appearance was his tribute to [[Diana, Princess of Wales]] on the morning after her death in August 1997, in which he described her as "the People's Princess" and "the Queen of Hearts". Blair has, however, acquired a reputation for excessive news management, and even for dishonesty, particularly after the Iraq War.

Blair was criticized by more liberal opponents for his close association with conservative News Corp. owner [[Rupert Murdoch]], and the positive press they believed he received in return.

He is also the only Prime Minister to provide his own voice in an episode of ''[[The Simpsons]]'', in the episode "The Regina Monologues".

== Presidential Medal of Freedom ==
[[Image:Blair MedalOfFreedom2.jpg|right|thumb|300px|President George Bush applauds former Prime Minister Tony Blair at the ceremony honoring Mr. Blair as recipient of the 2009 Presidential Medal of Freedom.]]
On January 13, 2009, Blair received the [[Presidential Medal of Freedom]] in a [[White House]] ceremony from United States President [[George W. Bush]]. The medal is America's highest civil award. It is given in recognition of exemplary achievement, and to convey the utmost esteem of the people and the President of the [[United States of America]]. The citation read:
{{cquote|'''''Tony Blair has been a powerful force for freedom and for building understanding among nations. As Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, he was instrumental in helping millions of people secure their freedom in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kosovo, and Sierra Leone; forging a new era of peace in Northern Ireland; providing humanitarian assistance around the globe, especially in Africa; and strengthening the special relationship between our two nations. Throughout his career, and in his role as Quartet Representative to the Middle East, he has worked to provide people with opportunities to better their lives. The United States honors Tony Blair for his lifelong dedication to building a more just and peaceful world.'''''}}
 

==See Also==

* [[British politics]]
* [[Labour Party]]

==References==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Blair, Tony}}
[[Category:United Kingdom Prime Ministers]]

Talk:Scientology

2009-02-02T21:34:17Z

Marcdaniels: /* Cat problem */

{{Wikiproject Religion}}
== Archives ==

[[Talk:Scientology/Archive1|Archive 1]] [[Talk:Scientology/Archive2|Archive2]]

----

== Typos ==

This article has a couple typos in the first paragraph. "Psychology" should not be capitalized the first time, and the second time it is misspelled and again inappropriately capitalized. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:09, 29 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:33, 29 December 2007 (EST)

== Hackers? ==
C'mon now, must we call them hackers? And if we must, can we possibly say "Hackers on steroids", add a reference to "Secret Websites", and possibly put in a few pictures of an exploding yellow van? [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 16:49, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:Do you have anything serious to add, or just obscure jokes? If you want to improve the wording please be my guest; I'm only as good as my sources. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 16:55, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::It's not a joke. Hacker carries some unnessecarily dark connotations. The quotes above are from a video from Fox News on this very subject. I can find it for you, if you wish. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 17:02, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:::A link's not necessary, but a straightforward response is always appreciated. What's wrong with the word hacker, what's a better word, and why can't you just change it yourself? The article called them a "hacking group" and I had no reason to call them anything else. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:12, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::::Because pretty much any time I try to change something that might be even slightly controversial, I get banned.
::::The word hacker, thanks to the MSM, brings up images of people sabotaging networks/stealing information from the government/what have you. Where I come from, at least.
::::Could simply refer to them as "a group" instead of "a hacking group." [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 18:44, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:::::Well if anyone is confused, they can see [[hacker]], which is wikilinked within the article, and which doesn't bring up images of people sabotaging networks or stealing information. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 19:39, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::::::Alright. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 19:41, 24 January 2008 (EST)
I've removed the reference to hackers. Barikada's complaint was legitimate, and although the link to [[hacker]] should mitigate that if it was necessary to mention it, I couldn't see that there was any real need to mention it. The YouTube video doesn't refer to them as hackers, nor even mention anything to do with computers. Their tactics, just going by the video, seem to lie in other areas. Yes, the other link does refer to hackers, so in that sense the use of the term was justifiable, but it still wasn't necessary. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 04:10, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:I've never understood people's deal with the word hacker, but I also didn't watch many movies in the late 80's ;-) Is there a better word than simply "group", though, because it's more than just a group of ''people'', right? It's people who are highly skilled in a certain area (namely using computers to illegally and skillfully disrupt other people's computers) and I don't know what word covers that. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 10:00, 25 January 2008 (EST)
::No need to specify computers, given that many Anons are handing out flyers in reality. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 15:44, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:::Err... but flyers don't perfom DoS attacks. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 22:01, 25 January 2008 (EST)
::::Indeed. Which is why I attempted to imply that not all of the activities perpetrated by Anonymous are internet-based. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 22:04, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:::::I'll say again, I'm only as good as my sources. I found a source that says they are hackers (and I still don't see why it's inaccurate), and it said nothing about handing out flyers. At any rate, just because they do ''more'' than computer-based attacks doesn't change their core purpose or definition. Nobody's been able to come up with any better word than "group of people". What's so wrong with using descriptive language? [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 22:12, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:::::: "Hackers" is a bit like "Fundamentalists". The origin of the word is good, but it's been appropriated by the media to mean someone bad.
:::::: As far as the legitimacy of its use in this article is concerned, the primary evidence, the video, made no reference to hackers and no reference to computer attacks. The secondary reference, quoting a third source, referred to them as hackers and said that the group had already launched denial of service attacks, but apart from that being their only documented tactic so far, there's no evidence that computer-based tactics are going to be their main mode of attack. In other words, they could be planning on using several approaches, and the denial of service attack just happens to be the first one. Actually, the video seemed to be indicating that a tactic would be infiltration.
:::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 02:48, 26 January 2008 (EST)

== A chance? ==
This might be a chance worth making use of. Christianity and Scientology are certinly in opposition, and Scientology has a known way of destroying families by ordering new converts to sever all contact. They will be in the headlines for a time now, and they have a lot of skeletons in their cupboard which until now have been consigned to websites hardly ever seen. Why waste such a chance to spread the truth around, discredit the church, slow its growth, and score one for the real true religion. Im not entirely sure what that is, but its certinly not Scientology looniness. - Suricou Raven, Jan 24th.
: Is it your opinion that Christianity and Scientology are in opposition? Whose opinion is it? The reason I ask is, opposition is not widely stated by Christian Churches. A few even use Scientology methods (it has been in the news). If it is certain, it certainly isn't obvious. Also, the Scientology website claims it is compatible. Whose opinion is that? [[User:TerryO|TerryO]] 00:59, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
Scientology is incompatible with virtually evrey religion in existence in the $cientology book the history of man L Ron states that man evolved from lower life forms. (gasp!) but how they evolved has absolutely no basis in either science or religion. according to Hubbard humans evolved form clams (the sources of our jaw pain and the now disproved Piltdown man. Also im many of his lectures and books he makes his disdain for Jesus Christianity and just about every other major religion. The final blow to the "you can be a Cristian and a $cientoligist" notion. Is the revelation one you spend 200000$ to get to 0t3 is that the memory of Jesus and all the old religions were implanted into the dead alien souls that now inhabit your body by The evil Galactic Lord Xenu. {{unsigned|Craan}}

== Meow ==

Needs a cat. Can a sysop add one? -[[User:Foxtrot|Foxtrot]] 13:23, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

==Cat problem==
Scientology is a religion, not a science. [[User:JY23|JY23]] 17:17, 22 December 2008 (EST)
: Agreed. The category should be changed to "Religion." Funny, whoever put "Pseudoscience," but completely inappropriate for an encyclopedic resource. -[[User:Ilikecake|Ilikecake]] 22:49, 25 December 2008 (EST)

:It's not a religion - it's an evil cult that destroys lives, and we should say so. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 16:34, 2 February 2009 (EST)

Burma

2009-02-02T18:35:04Z

Marcdaniels: /* History */

{| border="1" align="right" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="300" style="margin-left:5px"
|align="center" colspan="2"|[[Image:Burma rel 96.jpg|300px]]
|-
!colspan="2" align="center" style="color: black; height: 30px; background: white no-repeat scroll top left;"|''Pyi-daung-zu Myan-ma Naing-ngan-daw''
|-
!align ="center" style="color: black; height: 30px; background: white no-repeat scroll top left;"|Flag
!align ="center" style="color: black; height: 30px; background: white no-repeat scroll top left;"|[[Image:Flag of Myanmar.png|50px|]]
|-
!align ="center" style="color: black; height: 30px; background: white no-repeat scroll top left;"|Arms
!align ="center" style="color: black; height: 30px; background: white no-repeat scroll top left;"|[[Image:Myanmar arms.gif|48px|]]
|-
|-
| Capital:
| Pyinmana
|-
| Official Language:
| Burmese
|-
| Population:
| 48,798,000 (2007)
|-
| Land area:
| 261,227 sq. mi.
|-
| Government:
| Military dictatorship
|-
| Chairman of the State Peace and Development Council:
| Than Shwe
|-
| Prime Minister:
| Soe Win
|-
| Acting Prime Minister:
| Thein Sein
|}
'''Burma''' (or ''Myanmar'') is a country in southeast [[Asia]] run by a pro-[[China]] military [[Junta]] widely condemned for [[human rights]] abuses.

The new regime renamed the country '''Myanmar''' and moved the capital from [[Rangoon]] to Pyinmana in remote mountain region. <ref> [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4416960.stm Burma's confusing capital move] </ref> The [[United States]] and [[Great Britain]] have never recognized the Junta's renaming of the country.

==People==
A majority of Burma's people are ethnic Burmans. Shans, Karens, Rohingya, Arakanese, Kachins, Chins, Mons, and many other smaller indigenous ethnic groups form about 30% of the population. Indians and Chinese are the largest non-indigenous groups.

Although Burmese is the most widely spoken language (approx. 32 million speakers), other ethnic groups have retained their own identities and languages. Some of the most prominent are Shan; various Karen, Karenni and Chin languages; Arakanese; Jingpaw; Mon; Palaung; Parauk; Wa; and Yangbye. English is spoken in many areas frequented by tourists. The Indian and Chinese residents speak various languages and dialects of their homelands: Hindi, Urdu, Tamil, Bengali, Mandarin, Fujian, and Cantonese.

An estimated 89% of the population practices Buddhism. Other religions, Christian 4% (Baptist 3%, Roman Catholic 1%), Muslim 4%, and animist 1%, are less prevalent, although Christian and Muslim groups claim the regime significantly underestimates their number of adherents.

According to the UN Development Programme's 2006 Human Development Report, public health expenditure equaled only 0.3% of Burma's GDP. High infant mortality rates and short life expectancies further highlight poor health and living conditions. The HIV/AIDS epidemic poses a serious threat to the Burmese population, as do tuberculosis and malaria. In 2006, the UNDP's Human Development Index, which measures achievements in terms of life expectancy, educational attainment, and adjusted real income, ranked Burma 130 out of 177 countries.

There are numerous documented human rights violations, and internal displacement of ethnic minorities is prevalent. Over a million Burmese, many of them ethnic minorities, have fled for economic and political reasons to Bangladesh, India, China, Malaysia, and Thailand to seek work and asylum. More than 150,000 Burmese live in nine refugee camps in Thailand and roughly 30,000 live in two camps in Bangladesh. Roughly 30,000 Burmese (mostly Chin and Rohingya) have fled to Malaysia.

==Government==
The Union of Burma (or Myanmar as it is called by the ruling junta) consists of 14 states and divisions. Administrative control is exercised from the central government through a system of subordinate executive bodies and regional military commanders.

Power is centered on the ruling junta--the State Peace and Development Council, or SPDC--which maintains strict authoritarian rule over the people of Burma. The Prime Minister is appointed directly by the SPDC. Control is maintained through intimidation, the strict censuring of information, repression of individual rights, and suppression of ethnic minority groups.

The SPDC continues its harsh rule and systematic human rights abuses today, and insists that any future political transition be negotiated on its terms. It proclaimed a seven-step roadmap to democracy beginning with a National Convention process, purportedly to develop a new constitution and pave the way for national elections. However the regime restricts public input and debate and handpicks the delegates, effectively excluding pro-democracy supporters.

Although the SPDC changed the name of the country to "Myanmar," the democratically elected but never convened Parliament of 1990 does not recognize the name change, and the democratic opposition continues to use the name "Burma." Due to consistent support for the democratically elected leaders, the U.S. Government likewise uses "Burma."

===Principal Government Officials===
*Chairman of the State Peace and Development Council--Senior General Than Shwe
*Prime Minister--Gen. Soe Win
*Minister of Foreign Affairs--U Nyan Win
*Chargé d' Affaires, Burmese Embassy in the United States--U Myint Lwin
*Ambassador to the United Nations--U Kyaw Tint Swe

===Foreign Relations===
During the Cold War, Burmese foreign policy was based on principles of neutrality, often tending toward xenophobia. Since 1988, however, Burma has expanded its regional ties. It now is a member of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN), Bay of Bengal Initiative for Multi-sectoral Technical and Economic Cooperation (BIMSTEC), and several other regional organizations and initiatives. Burma's lack of progress on human rights and democracy has frayed some ties, and in July 2005, Burma passed up its scheduled 2006 ASEAN chairmanship.

Although Burmese-Thai relations are generally cooperative, they have been tainted by a long history of border conflicts and sporadic hostilities over narcotics trafficking and insurgents operating along the Burmese-Thai border. Nonetheless, official and unofficial economic ties remain strong. In addition to the sizeable population of Burmese refugees it hosts, the Thai Government issues temporary work permits to another one million Burmese who live outside the refugee camps in Thailand. Despite their often-contentious history, Burma and China have grown much closer in recent years. China quickly is becoming Burma's most important partner, offering debt relief, economic development grants, and soft loans used for the construction of infrastructure and light industry. China also is purportedly Burma's major supplier of arms and munitions. Burma's commercial and military ties with India are also growing steadily as well.

The UN has made several efforts to address international concerns over human rights in Burma. The UN Secretary General's Special Envoy to Burma, Tan Sri Razali Ismail, resigned his position in December 2005 due to the regime's lack of cooperation. UN Commission on Human Rights Special Rapporteur Paulo Sergio Pinheiro has not been allowed to visit the country since 2003. Former UN Undersecretary General for Political Affairs Ibrahim Gambari visited Burma in May and November 2006 and after his trips briefed the UN Security Council on the situation in Burma. Burma was placed on the UN Security Council agenda in September 2006. In January 2007, the United States and the U.K. sponsored a UN Security Council resolution calling on Burma to cooperate with the UN Secretary General's good offices mission, open dialogue with the political opposition, stop its military offensive in Karen State, and to allow humanitarian organizations greater access to needy populations. The resolution received nine votes in favor, three abstentions, and three "no" votes, including from Russia and China. The Russian and Chinese vetoes blocked the resolution.

Burma is involved in the Asian Development Bank's (ADB) Program of Economic Cooperation in the Greater Mekong Sub-region. As such, it participates in regional meetings and workshops supported by the ADB. Burma joined ASEAN in 1997, and has participated in that regional forum, even hosting a number of seminars, conferences, and ministerial meetings. As one of ASEAN's least developed members, Burma also has an extra five years (until 2008) to comply with most of ASEAN Free Trade Agreement's liberalization requirements. Burma also is a member of the World Trade Organization.

Most Western foreign aid diminished in the wake of the regime's suppression of the democracy movement in 1988. The UN Development Programme's 2006 Human Development Report indicates that official development assistance totaled $121.1 million in 2004, roughly $2 per capita (compared with $47 per person in Laos and $35 per person in Cambodia). Burma receives grants of technical assistance (mostly from Asia), limited humanitarian aid and debt relief from Japan and China, and concessional loans from China and India.

Burma became a member of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank in 1952, the International Financial Corporation (IFC) in 1956, the International Development Association (IDA) in 1962, and the ADB in 1973. Since July 1987, the World Bank has not made any loans to Burma. Since 1998 Burma has been in non-accrual status with the Bank. The IMF performs its mandated annual Article IV consultations, but there are no IMF assistance programs. The ADB has not extended loans to Burma since 1986. Bilateral technical assistance ended in 1988. Burma has not serviced its ADB loans since January 1998. Burma's total foreign debt now stands at over $7 billion.

===Relations with the United States===
The political relationship between the United States and Burma worsened after the 1988 military coup and violent suppression of pro-democracy demonstrations, and remains strained today.

The United States has imposed broad sanctions against Burma under several different legislative and policy vehicles. The Burma Freedom and Democracy Act (BFDA), passed by Congress and signed by the President in 2003, includes a ban on all imports from Burma, a ban on the export of financial services to Burma, a freeze on the assets of certain Burmese financial institutions, and extended visa restrictions on Burmese officials. Congress has renewed the BFDA annually, most recently in July 2006.

In addition, since May 1997, the U.S. Government has prohibited new investment by U.S. persons or entities. A number of U.S. companies exited the Burma market even prior to the imposition of sanctions due to a worsening business climate and mounting criticism from human rights groups, consumers, and shareholders. The United States has also imposed countermeasures on Burma due to its inadequate measures to eliminate money laundering.

Due to its particularly severe violations of religious freedom, the United States has designated Burma a Country of Particular Concern (CPC) under the International Religious Freedom Act. Burma is also designated a Tier 3 Country in the Trafficking in Persons Report for its use of forced labor, and is subject to additional sanctions as a result.

The United States downgraded its level of representation in Burma from Ambassador to Chargé d'Affaires after the government's crackdown on the democratic opposition in 1988 and its failure to honor the results of the 1990 parliamentary election.

The United States offered humanitarian aid following Cyclone Nargis, which hit the area of Yangon on May 3, 2008 (see below). The sum total, in excess of US$3 million dollars, also includes U.S. naval assistance. While speaking of the need for aid to Burman, President [[George W. Bush]] also signed legislation awarding the Congressional Gold Medal to Burmese democracy advocate Aung San Suu Kyi, who remains under house arrest <ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354246,00.html</ref>.

===Relations with China===
China has provided Burma with substantial military, economic, and infrastructure development assistance. According to a reported internal Department of Defense (DOD) document, China is building naval bases in Burma that will give China its
only access to the Indian Ocean.<ref>[http://www.kachinpost.com/article2005/jan18.html China Builds up Strategic Sea Lanes], ''[[Washington Times]]'', January 18, 2005. Retrieved from the Kachin Post, October 12, 2007.</ref> These close relations are one explanation the Peoples Republic of China on January 12, 2007, vetoed a U.S.-sponsored U.N. Security Council resolution criticizing Burma’s [[human rights]] record. The veto was only the fifth that China has ever exercised in the [[U.N. Security Council]].

==Economy==
Under British colonial administration, Myanmar was the wealthiest country in Southeast Asia and was believed to be on the fast track to development. Today, it is one of the poorest nations in the world, suffering from the 1962 military takeover and the Burmese Way to Socialism plan. [http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Myanmar]

Burma is a resource-rich country with a strong agricultural base. It also has vast timber, natural gas, and fishery reserves and is a leading source of gems and jade. Tourist potential remains undeveloped because of weak infrastructure and Burma's international image, which has been damaged by the junta's human rights abuses and oppression of the democratic opposition. Due to Burma's poor human rights record, the U.S. has imposed a range of trade sanctions, including bans on the importation of Burmese products into the U.S. and the export of financial services from the U.S. to Burma passed in 2003.

The regime's mismanagement of the economy has created a downward economic spiral. The state remains heavily involved in most parts of the economy, infrastructure has deteriorated, and no rule of law exists. The majority of Burmese citizens subsist on an average annual income of less than $200 per capita. Inflation, caused primarily by public sector deficit spending and the eroding value of the local currency (the kyat), have reduced living standards. The Asian Development Bank estimated in December 2006 that inflation in Burma could reach 30% in 2006-2007, in contrast with official estimates of 10%.

The military's commercial arms play a major role in the economy. The limited moves to a market economy have been accompanied by a significant rise in crony capitalism. A handful of companies loyal to the regime has benefited from policies that promote monopoly and privilege. State-controlled activity predominates in energy, heavy industry, and the rice trade. Agriculture, light industry, trade, and transport dominate the private sector.

Burma remains a primarily agricultural economy with 50% of GDP derived from agriculture, livestock and fisheries, and forestry. Manufacturing/industry constitutes only 15% of recorded economic activity, and state industries continue to play a large role in that sector. Trade and services constitute only 35% of GDP.

Foreign investment has declined precipitously since 1999 due to the increasingly unfriendly business environment and political pressure from Western consumers and shareholders. The government conserves foreign exchange by limiting imports and promoting exports. Published estimates of Burma's foreign trade (particularly on the import side) are greatly understated because of the large volume of off-book, black-market, illicit, and unrecorded border trade.

In the near term, growth will continue to be constrained by government mismanagement and minimal investment. A number of other countries, including member states of the European Union, Canada, and Australia have joined the United States in applying some form of sanctions against the regime.

Government economic statistics are unavailable and unreliable. According to official figures, GDP growth has been over 10% annually since FY 1999-2000. However, the rate is likely much smaller. Burma's limited economic growth results largely from its natural gas exports, which account for over half of Burma's export receipts and foreign direct investment. Natural gas exports will increase significantly once production begins from the offshore Shwe and Shwephyu Fields, estimated to hold 5.7-10 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. In 2005-2006, the oil and gas sector accounted for $69 million in foreign direct investment. Corporations based in China, India, South Korea, Thailand, and Malaysia have interests in the exploration and development of several offshore blocks.

Burma remains the world's second-largest producer of illicit opium--although it amounts to only 11% of the world's total. Annual production of opium is now estimated to be less than 20% of mid-1990 peak levels. Burma is also a primary source of amphetamine-type stimulants in Asia. Although the Burmese Government has expanded its counternarcotics measures in recent years, production and trafficking of narcotics and failure to adequately prosecute those involved remains a major problem in Burma.

===Human trafficking===
Burma is a source country for men, women, and children trafficked to East and Southeast Asia for sexual exploitation, domestic service, and forced commercial labor; a significant number of victims are economic migrants who wind up in forced or bonded labor and forced prostitution; to a lesser extent, Burma is a country of transit and destination for women trafficked from China for sexual exploitation; internal trafficking of persons occurs primarily for labor in industrial zones and agricultural estates; internal trafficking of women and girls for sexual exploitation occurs from villages to urban centers and other areas; the military junta's economic mismanagement, human rights abuses, and policy of using forced labor are driving factors behind Burma(Myanmar)'s large trafficking problem. Burma does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of human trafficking and is not making significant efforts to do so.

===Illicit drugs===
Burma remains world's second largest producer of illicit opium with an estimated production in 2005 of 380 metric tons, up 13% from 2004 and cultivation in 2005 was 40,000 hectares, a 10% increase from 2004; the decline in opium production in the United Wa State Army's areas of greatest control was more than offset by increases in south and east Shan state; lack of government will to take on major narcotrafficking groups and lack of serious commitment against money laundering continues to hinder the overall anti drug effort; major source of methamphetamine and heroin for regional consumption; currently under Financial Action Task Force countermeasures due to continued failure to address its inadequate money-laundering controls (2005).

==History==
Burma was unified by Burman dynasties three times during the past millennium. The first such unification came with the rise of the Bagan (Pagan) Dynasty in 1044 AD, which is considered the "Golden Age" in Burmese history. During this period, Theravada Buddhism first made its appearance in Burma, and the Bagan kings built a massive city with thousands of pagodas and monasteries along the Irrawaddy River. The Bagan Dynasty lasted until 1287 when Mongol invaders destroyed the city. Ethnic Shan rulers, who established a political center at Ava (near Mandalay), filled the ensuing political vacuum for a short time.

In the 15th century, the Taungoo Dynasty succeeded again in unifying under Burman rule a large, multi-ethnic kingdom. This dynasty, which lasted from 1486 until 1752, left little cultural legacy, but expanded the kingdom through conquest of the Shans. Internal power struggles, and the cost of protracted warfare, led to the eventual decline of the Taungoo Dynasty.

The final Burman royal dynasty, the Konbaung, was established in 1752 under the rule of King Alaungpaya. Like the Taungoo Kings, the Konbaung rulers focused on warfare and conquest. Wars were fought with the ethnic Mons and Arakanese, and with the Siamese. The Burmese sacked the Siamese capital of Ayuthaya in 1767. This period also saw four invasions by the Chinese and three devastating wars with the British.

The British began their conquest of Burma in 1824, expanding their holdings after each of the three wars. At the end of the third war in 1885, the British gained complete control of Burma, annexing it to India. Under British control, which lasted until 1948, Burma underwent enormous change. The British established strong administrative institutions and reorganized the economy from subsistence farming to a large-scale export economy. By 1939, Burma had become the world's leading exporter of rice.

Burmese nationalists, led by General Aung San and 29 other "Comrades," joined the Japanese forces in driving out the British at the outbreak of World War II. However, the Burmese Army switched sides in mid-1945 and aided U.S. and British forces in their drive to Rangoon. After the war, the Burmese, with General Aung San at the helm, demanded complete political and economic independence from Britain. The British Government acceded to these demands. A constitution was completed in 1947 and independence granted in January 1948. General Aung San was assassinated with most of his cabinet before the constitution went into effect.

During the constitutional period from 1948 to 1962, Burma suffered widespread conflict and internal struggle. Constitutional disputes and persistent division among political and ethnic groups contributed to the democratic government's weak hold on power. In 1958, Prime Minister U Nu invited the military to rule temporarily to restore political order. The military stepped down after 18 months; however, in 1962 General Ne Win led a military coup, abolishing the constitution and establishing a xenophobic military government with socialist economic policies. These policies had devastating effects on the country's economy and business climate.

In March 1988, student-led disturbances broke out in Rangoon in response to the worsening economic situation and evolved into a call for regime change. Despite repeated violent crackdowns by the military and police, the demonstrations increased in size as many in the general public joined the students. During mass demonstrations on August 8, 1988, military forces killed more than 1,000 demonstrators. At a rally following this massacre Aung San Suu Kyi, the daughter of General Aung San, made her first political speech and assumed the role of opposition leader.

In September 1988, the military deposed Ne Win's Burmese Socialist Program Party (BSPP), suspended the constitution, and established a new ruling junta called the State Law and Order Restoration Council (SLORC). In an effort to "restore order," the SLORC sent the army into the streets to suppress the ongoing public demonstrations. An estimated additional 3,000 were killed, and more than 10,000 students fled into the hills and border areas.

The SLORC ruled by martial law until national parliamentary elections were held in May 1990. The results were an overwhelming victory for Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy (NLD) party, which won 392 of the 485 seats, even though she was under house arrest. However, the SLORC refused to honor the results and call the Parliament into session, and instead imprisoned many political activists.

The ruling junta changed its name to the State Peace and Development Council (SPDC) in 1997, but did not change its policy of autocratic control and repression of the democratic opposition. It continued to subject Aung San Suu Kyi to varying forms of detention and other restrictions on her movement, which it periodically lifted only to reinstate later. In 2000, the SPDC began talks with the political opposition led by Aung San Suu Kyi. These talks were followed by the release of political prisoners and some increase in political freedoms for the NLD. In May 2002, Aung San Suu Kyi was allowed to leave her home, and subsequently traveled widely throughout the country. On May 30, 2003, Aung San Suu Kyi and a convoy of her supporters were attacked by a group of government-affiliated thugs. Many members of the convoy were killed or injured, and others disappeared. Aung San Suu Kyi and other members of her party were detained, and the military government forcibly closed the offices of the NLD. Today, only the NLD headquarters in Rangoon is open, all the party's other offices remain closed, and Aung San Suu Kyi and NLD Vice Chairman U Tin Oo remain under house arrest.

In October 2004, hard-line members of the senior leadership consolidated their power by ousting Prime Minister Khin Nyunt and removing him and his allies from control of the government and military intelligence apparatus. In late November 2004, the junta announced it would release approximately 9,000 prisoners it claimed had been improperly jailed by Khin Nyunt's National Intelligence Bureau. Approximately 86 of those released had been imprisoned for their political beliefs. Those released since November 2004 include Min Ko Naing and Ko Ko Gyi, both key figures in the 1988 demonstrations. On July 6, 2005, authorities released 323 additional political prisoners and on January 3, 2007, the authorities released over 2,800 prisoners, of whom over 40 were political prisoners. Despite these releases, the regime's policy of imprisoning its critics has not changed. Over 1,100 political activists are held in prisons around the country.

The military regime has a contentious relationship with Burma's ethnic groups, many of which have fought for greater autonomy or secession for their regions since the country's independence. In 1948, only Rangoon itself was under the control of national government authorities. Subsequent military campaigns brought more and more of the nation under central government control. Since 1989, the regime has signed a series of cease-fire agreements with insurgent groups, leaving only a handful still in active opposition.

In November 2005, the ruling regime unexpectedly relocated the capital city from Rangoon to Nay Pyi Taw, further isolating the government from the public. Nay Pyi Taw is a sparsely populated district located approximately midway between Rangoon and Mandalay. Most government workers and ministries moved to Nay Pyi Taw over the following six months, but construction and development of the new administrative capital remains incomplete. Foreign diplomatic missions are still located in Rangoon.

Despite multiparty legislative elections in 1990 that resulted in the main opposition party - the National League for Democracy (NLD) - winning a landslide victory, the ruling junta refused to hand over power. NLD leader and [[Nobel Peace Prize]] recipient [[Aung San Suu Kyi]], who was under house arrest from 1989 to 1995 and 2000 to 2002, was imprisoned in May 2003 and subsequently transferred to house arrest, where she remains virtually incommunicado. In February 2006, the junta extended her detention for another year. Her supporters, as well as all those who promote democracy and improved human rights, are routinely harassed or jailed.

In September 2007, monks and other protesters paraded through the streets for over 9 days before the government ordered them to disperse.

It is severely censured by groups from [[ASEAN]] <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3085819.stm </ref> and [[Amnesty International]] <ref>http://web.amnesty.org/report2005/mmr-summary-eng</ref> for its [[human rights]] abuses, ranging from forced labour, to a campaign of oppression and what some claim amounts to [[genocide]]<ref>http://www.ibiblio.org/obl/docs3/Horton-2005.pdf</ref>. There are widespread reports of Christians being persecuted by the regime. <ref>http://www.persecution.org/suffering/countryinfodetail.php?countrycode=12</ref><ref>http://www.eagleworldnews.com/2007/10/01/us-report-highlights-christian-persecution-in-burma/</ref>

====Cyclone Nargis====
Cyclone Nargis struck ashore near Yangon on May 3, 2008, destroying much of the area with winds in excess of 125 miles per hour. The worst disaster in Burmese history, the storm claimed an estimated 22,000 deaths, with some 41,000 reported missing. Postponed as a result of the storm was a vote on a referendum to Burma's constitution, which, despite tense opposition from the pro-democracy movement, was geared to the benefit of the military junta.<ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,354246,00.html</ref>

== Political Unrest/Democracy Movement ==
{{Burma uprising}}

==References==
<references/>

{| style="width: 100%; background:transparent; border: 2px solid #000099;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="1"
!colspan=2 style="width: 100%; text-align: center; background-color: #000088; color: white; "|'''Copyright Details'''
|-
!style="background-color: #000088; color:white;"|License:
|style=" background-color: none;"| Some content for this article is in the [[Public Domain]] in the United States because it is a work of the United States Federal Government under the terms of Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 105 of the U.S. Code
|-
!style=" background-color: #000088; color:white;"|Source:
|style="background-color: none;border-top: 2px solid black"| File available from the {{{1|[[United States Federal Government]] [http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35910.htm]}}}.
|}

[[Category:Asian Countries]]
[[Category:Buddhism]]

Fashion industry values

2009-02-02T18:29:13Z

Marcdaniels: I would say anorexia is the most likely consequence, but are there any stats?

'''Fashion industry values''' represent the [[moral]] degradation that occurs among a class of people who idolize physical beauty and [[materialism|material goods]] and uphold them above all else, especially moral integrity and [[intelligence]]. The [[fashion]] [[industry]] operates as a cult of the body. Many young people have been brainwashed into this mentality, with devastating results. [[Anorexia]], [[homosexuality]], serious [[drug abuse]], extreme [[promiscuity]], unfettered cosmetic surgery, and severe [[depression]] are rampant and take their toll upon the young people involved. Unfortunately, there are abundantly many cases where fashion industry values have led to the sad and untimely deaths of misguided young people.

==The vicious cycle of the fashion industry==
* Rich [[consumer]]s want to spend money on the newest and "sexiest" fashions to show off their wealth and popularity.
* Fashion designers design exotic and scandalous clothing that shows off the female body, which treats the woman as another luxury good.
* Fashion agents treat models as merchandise, placing heavy demands on the models to meet the specifications of the designer.
* The models never feel good enough unless they are the thinnest, youngest, prettiest, etc.
* Many models suffer irreparable damage from feelings of inadequacy, leading to depression and sometimes suicide.
* Thinner, younger models take the place of the unstable, unreliable older models (who themselves are no older than 25).
* Rich consumers buy the latest fashion, become convinced that the newer fashion standard is even thinner than before, and pump more money into the system in the process.

==Type of clothing==
The "clothing" promoted by the heads of the fashion industry frequently goes far beyond standards of decency in most communities. Often more is revealed than concealed by the clothing, which features plunging necklines, high slits, and sheer fabrics. The designs often intentionally blur [[gender role]]s, with women wearing tuxedos and men wearing feather boas or other feminine accessories.<ref>[http://media.www.westerncarolinian.com/media/storage/paper265/news/2007/10/08/Features/Switching.Sides.Gender.Lines.Are.Becoming.Vague.In.Fashion-3018870.shtml Gender Lines are Becoming Vague in Fashion]</ref>

==Examples of Fashion industry values==

* 20-year-old [[supermodel]] Ruslana Korshunova leapt to her death from a New York City penthouse in an apparent suicide on June 28, 2008. <ref>http://www.nypost.com/seven/06282008/news/regionalnews/model_suicide_117616.htm</ref>

* Ana Carolina Reston, a 21-year-old [[anorexic]] [[Brazilian]] model who weighed only 88 pounds died in November 2006.<ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,230183,00.html</ref>

* Hila Elmalich, an [[Israel]]i model suffering from anorexia, died in November 2006 when weighing only 60 pounds. She was so weak and atrophied that she could not stand.<ref name=Israeli>[http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3883944&page=1 ABC news] Did Model Die From Pressure to Be Thin?</ref> The response from the industry is stunning:

<blockquote>In New York, the Council of Fashion Designers of America issued voluntary guidelines to raise awareness -- urging designers to promote the message that beauty is health -- but setting no minimum [[BMI]] requirement. Officials in other key fashion capitals, London and Paris, did not act on the issue. Designers say that clothes just look better on thin models and that the curves of more shapely models distract from the clothing they are showing off. They say rules and punishments would only stifle creativity.<ref name=Israeli/></blockquote>

* In August, 2006, 22-year-old [[Uruguay]]an model Luisel Ramos died during Fashion Week in [[Montevideo]] after reportedly surviving on [[lettuce]] and diet drinks.<ref name=Israeli/>

* [[Supermodel]] [[Kate Moss]] became the postergirl for the "[[heroin]] chic" look in fashion during the early 90s, which involved a waifish frame and heavy mascara and eyeliner to suggest rings under the eyes from prolonged drug abuse. Public outcry was widespread, and even President [[Bill Clinton]] publicly criticized the positive depiction of drug use as dangerous for impressionable young girls.<ref>[http://www.monstersandcritics.com/people/archive/peoplearchive.php/Kate_Moss/biog Kate Moss biography]</ref> It was later revealed that Moss had a long history abusing [[cocaine]], with photographs documenting her abuse.<ref>[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-381902/Kate-Moss-escape-cocaine-charges.html] Cocaine abuse photographed</ref><ref>[http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-20367317-details/Kate+'caught+snorting+coke'/article.do;jsessionid=K8WNGNNXpRdWlkvGtM9qMblZqnNlFPQjr8BSQT1pnFY25SPnGQPC!890633107!-1407319224!7001!-1] Caught again.</ref> Yet, in true form for fashion industry values, her popularity and assets doubled upon revelation of the drug abuse photos.<ref>[http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23400399-details/Moss+doubles+her+money+after+'Cocaine+Kate'+scandal/article.do] Assets double</ref> Also, now that she is older, she has openly accused the fashion industry for pushing her to be too thin.<ref>[http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/lifestyle/kate-moss-blames-fashion-industry-for-making-her-too-thin_10089619.html Kate Moss blames fashion industry for making her too thin] - Thaindian.com</ref>

* Fashion designer [[Calvin Klein]] has been criticized for several years for several scandalous underwear advertisements, in print, video and billboard form. IN 1984, he rented a large billboard in [[Times Square]], [[New York]] on which he placed a 100 foot tall photo of a male model wearing only underwear.<ref>http://www.vintagefashionguild.org/component/option,com_alphacontent/section,6/cat,59/task,view/id,372/Itemid,100/</ref> In 1995, he drew the ire of many groups, including the [[American Family Association]], when a video and print advertisement campaign featured pubescent models in settings that intentionally evoked [[pornography]]. "Consumer and child welfare advocates <nowiki>[slammed the ad campaign]</nowiki>, finding the ads disturbing and exploitative."<ref name=mediaaware>[http://www.media-awareness.ca/ Media-Awareness Canada] has a full article on Calvin Klein, but it is not linked explicitly since the offensive photos are included as evidence.</ref> In 1999, a series of photos of children in his underwear drew a large backlash from consumers and groups, who felt these photos were blatant [[child pornography]]. The ad was quickly pulled.<ref name=mediaaware/><ref>[http://solissf.stores.yahoo.net/kpoco.html Morality in Media report]</ref> Even though he has been married twice, his [[sexuality]] is debated, with many reports of wild excesses at night clubs in the 70s and 80s. He has continued offending with his fashion, so long as it sells clothes.<ref>[http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/Calvin-Klein-Inc-Company-History.html Calvin Klein, Inc. financial history]</ref>

* Supermodel [[Naomi Campbell]] has a storied history of violence, including verbal and physical attacks against: a housekeeper in 2006<ref>http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/nyc/naomicampbellassault33106.html</ref>, an employee in 2005<ref>http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/14/entertainment/main1804363.shtml</ref>, British Airways employees (she is now forbidden from flying on the airline)<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7336346.stm</ref> followed by two airport police officers.<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7425563.stm</ref> She grew up without a father.

* Homosexual fashion designer Gianni Versace was killed by a former lover, Andrew Cunanan. Cunanan had already killed four men, including three former lovers. He met Versace while hiding in plain sight in Miami and regularly attending gay night clubs.<ref>[http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9707/17/cunanan/ CNN] "Who is Andrew Cunanan? Suspected killer led flamboyant lifestyle."</ref>

* [[Homosexual]] designer Hedi Slimane obsessively features only very young boys in his fashion shows. "Hedi Slimane embraced a different look, bringing his ultra-young, ultra-thin models out of their all-black nightclub clothes and into daylight.""...it was good to see Slimane moving on...Yet.. menswear for this classic French house has a focus on very young boys."<ref>http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/01/28/rwed_ed3__0.php</ref>

* Many other prominent fashion designers are [[homosexuals]], including Christian Dior, Yves St. Laurent, Jean-Paul Gaultier (whose lover died of [[AIDS]]), Karl Lagerfeld, Tom Ford, etc.

(add more)

==See Also==
*[[Hollywood Values]]

==References==

{{reflist}}

{{liberalism}}
[[Category:Entertainment]]
[[Category:Liberal Traits]]
[[Category:Homosexuality]]

Illustrated London News

2009-02-02T18:27:57Z

Marcdaniels: doesn't exist anymore

The '''''Illustrated London News''''' is a [[Britain|British]] news magazine founded in 1842. From 1842 to 1971 it was a weekly publication. Nineteenth-century editions of the magazine are a valuable historical resource both for their wide-ranging reportage and also for their numerous high-quality engravings.

==External links==
*http://www.iln.co.uk/iln/about/

[[Category:Magazines]]

Talk:Joseph Mercola

2009-02-02T18:24:32Z

Marcdaniels: New page: What is going on with this page? The guy looks like a typical new-agey crank, pushing unnecessary and expensive food supplements and gadgets. I am concerned the article is so uncritical. ~...

What is going on with this page? The guy looks like a typical new-agey crank, pushing unnecessary and expensive food supplements and gadgets. I am concerned the article is so uncritical. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 13:24, 2 February 2009 (EST)

Essay:Greatest Mysteries of World History

2009-02-02T18:12:55Z

Marcdaniels:

Here are some mysteries or unresolved issues about World History:

#What is the history of marriage?
#How did the Egyptians build the pyramids?
#Did (pre-Abraham) Hebrews in Egypt participate in building the pyramids?
#How did people construct the ziggurats?
#In what language did Jesus preach?
#Why did Islam grow so rapidly?
#Who was right, the Catholics or the Protestants?
#Is modern Israel a fulfillment of biblical prophecy?
#Is democracy compatible with Islam?
#Did people have a higher intelligence (IQ) in ancient times than today?
#Why was there the fall and decline of the Roman Empire?

== See also ==
* [[Essay:Liberal Denials about History]]

[[Category:Essays]]

William Shakespeare

2009-02-02T17:13:44Z

Marcdaniels: this is not a movie I would want any child of mine to watch

[[Image:Foliou.jpg|right|thumb|[[portraits|Portrait]] of William Shakespeare on the cover of the First Folio (1623), the first collected edition of his plays]]
'''William Shakespeare''' (1564-1616) is generally regarded as the greatest playwright in the English language. Many of his plays are required reading in school curricula throughout the English-speaking world and beyond; those taught in schools often include ''[[Romeo and Juliet]]'', ''[[Macbeth]]'', ''[[A Midsummer-Night's Dream]]'' and ''[[Hamlet]]''.

Shakespeare wrote 17 comedies, 10 tragedies, 10 historical plays, 154 love [[sonnet]]s, and several other works of non-dramatic poetry. All his plays are freely available on the internet.<ref>
http://www-tech.mit.edu/Shakespeare/</ref>

Shakespeare spent his early years in Stratford-upon-Avon, [[Warwickshire]] and is also known as "the Bard of Avon." Because of sharing the name "Stratford," the towns of Stratford, Ontario, in Canada and Stratford, Connecticut, have become the homes of Shakespeare festivals where his plays are performed on a regular basis.

Shakespeare did not become famous until late in his life and consequently historians and biographers know very little about his earlier life. There are few pictures of him and the accuracy of the pictures is disputed.

The idea of an ill-educated (to his contemporaries) person coming among them and making a success was upsetting to the University-educated playwrights of the time. It is believed that the poet, Philip Green, was referring to Shakespeare when he wrote
{{cquote|There is an upstart crow beautified with our feathers
that, with his '''tiger's heart wrapped in a player's hide'','
supposes he is as well able to bombast out a blank verse
as the best of you; being an absolute Johannes Factotum,
in his conceit the only ''shake-scene'' in a country.}}
The 'tiger's heart wrapped in a player's hide' is a reference to one of Shakespeare's plays, ''[[The Third Part of King Henry VI]]'',<ref> [[Great Books, Shakespeare: I]], Edited by Mortimer J. Adler, 1952. </ref> while 'shake-scene' is a pun or play on words on Shakespeare's name.

His plays seem to show so much education and erudition that there are even theories that they must have been written by someone else, famous candidates being the Earl of Oxford and Sir Francis Bacon. Most scholars do not believe these theories, but there are enough questions that new theories of Shakespearean authorship continue arise over the years.

A long-standing theatrical [[superstition]] holds that it is bad luck to refer to ''Macbeth'' directly by its name while inside a theatre, and accordingly, actors traditionally refer to it obliquely as "the Scottish play." It is considered acceptable to voice the play's name only while rehearsing or performing the production itself.

Because Shakespeare's plays are so familiar, there are innumerable references to them in British literature. Sometimes his stories are recast into a different form. The musical ''West Side Story'' is a retelling of ''Romeo and Juliet,'' and the classic science-fiction movie ''Forbidden Planet'' is a transformed version of ''The Tempest.''

The reverence in which Shakespeare is held, and the language of his plays (which come from the same era as the King James translation of the Bible) should not obscure the fact that his plays were (and still are) fabulously successful.

He is also famous for his 154 [[sonnet]]s, short poems written in a very strict [[rhyme scheme]]. The sonnets fall into series or sequences. Most of them are usually read as expressions of romantic or platonic love; some appear to be written to a married woman known in the sonnets as the "Dark Lady," some to a young man known as the "Fair Lord."

In common with the majority of the population at the time, Shakespeare wrote in his will, "I commend my soul into the hands of God, my Creator, hoping and assuredly believing, through the only merits of Jesus Christ, my Saviour, to be made partaker of life everlasting."<ref>http://www.amerisearch.net/index.php?date=2004-04-23&view=View</ref>

His tomb in Holy Trinity Church, Stratford-on-Avon, England, reads as follows:<ref>''Id.''</ref>
{{cquote|Good Friend For Jesus Sake Forbeare, To Digg The Dust Enclosed Heare. Blese Be Ye Man Spares Thes Stones, And Curst Be He Moves My Bones.}}

== List of Plays by Shakespeare[http://absoluteshakespeare.com/trivia/bibliography/bibliography.htm] ==

=== Comedies ===
*[[Two Gentlemen of Verona]] (1589)
*[[A Comedy of Errors]] (1589)
*[[The Taming of the Shrew]] (1593)
*[[Love's Labour's Lost]] (1594)
*[[A Midsummer-Night's Dream]] (1595)
*[[The Merchant of Venice]] (1596)
*[[The Merry Wives of Windsor]] (1597)
*[[Much Ado About Nothing]] (1598)
*[[As You Like It]] (1599)
*[[Twelfth Night]] (1601)
*[[All's Well That Ends Well]] (1602)
*[[Measure for Measure]] (1603)
*[[Pericles, Prince of Tyre]] (1607)
*[[Cymbeline]] (1609)
*[[A Winter's Tale]] (1609)
*[[The Tempest]] (1610)
*[[The Two Noble Kinsmen]] (1611)

=== Histories ===
*[[The Life and Death of King John]] (1590)
*[[The First Part of King Henry VI]] (1590)
*[[The Second Part of King Henry VI]] (1592)
*[[The Third Part of King Henry VI]] (1593)
*[[The Tragedy of King Richard III]] (1593)
*[[The Tragedy of King Richard II]] (1595)
*[[The First Part of King Henry IV]] (1596)
*[[The Second Part of King Henry IV]] (1597)
*[[The Famous Life of King Henry V]] (1599)
*[[The Famous Life of King Henry VIII]] (1613)

=== Tragedies ===
*[[Titus Andronicus]] (1591)
*[[Romeo and Juliet]] (1594)
*[[Julius Caesar (Play)]] (1599)
*[[Troilus and Cressida]] (1600)
*[[Hamlet]] (1600)
*[[Othello]] (1603)
*[[Timon of Athens]] (1604)
*[[King Lear]] (1605)
*[[Macbeth]] (1606)
*[[Coriolanus]] (1608)
*[[Antony and Cleopatra]] (1608)

== Trivia ==
* "Shakespeare" was spelled many ways before English spelling was standardized. Some of the more unexpected forms are "Shaxper," "Shaxberd," and "Shaksper."<ref>http://shakespeareauthorship.com/name1.html</ref>

== See also ==

*[[Leo Tolstoy]]
*[[Miguel De Cervantes Saavedra]]

== External links ==

*[http://books.mirror.org/gb.shakespeare.html An Index to Online Great Books]

==References==
<references/>

-----

{{DEFAULTSORT:Shakespeare, William}}

[[Category:Playwrights|Shakespeare, William]]
[[category:poets|Shakespeare, William]]
[[Category:Authors]]
[[Category:England]]

Adam Smith

2009-02-02T17:00:55Z

Marcdaniels: likely liberal hoax - the SNP are socialist and no fans of Smith

[[Image:Sigentha.jpg|right|thumb|200px]]
'''Adam Smith''' (June 16, 1723 to July 17, 1790) was a [[Scottish]] political [[economist]] and moral [[philosopher]]. He is considered the fundamental economist upon whose work modern [[capitalism]] is based, as he advocated individual economic growth, [[free enterprise]] and [[free will]].

==Philosophy==

His most famous concept was that markets guide economic activity and act like an "[[invisible hand]]" - allocating resources through prices, which rise when there is a shortage of a commodity and fall when it is plentiful.

*Each individual strives to become wealthy "intending only his own gain" but to this end he must exchange what he owns or produces with others who sufficiently value what he has to offer; in this way, by division of labour and a free market, public interest is advanced. <ref>http://plus.maths.org/issue14/features/smith/</ref>

One of the key figures of the intellectual movement known as the Scottish Enlightenment, he is known primarily as the author of two treatises:
* ''The Theory of Moral Sentiments'' (1759)
* ''An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations'' (1776)

His ''[[The Wealth of Nations]]'' was one of the earliest attempts to study the historical development of industry and commerce in [[Europe]], as well as a sustained attack on the doctrines of mercantilism. That work helped to create the modern academic discipline of economics and provided one of the best-known intellectual rationales for [[free trade]], capitalism, and [[libertarianism]]. It continues to greatly influence the writings of economists.

==Biography==
Smith was born in [[Kirkcaldy]], [[Scotland]] in 1723 and was raised by his widowed mother. Smith entered the [[University of Glasgow]] at the age of fourteen and then attended [[Balliol College]] at [[Oxford]] for six years until he graduated at the age of twenty-three. Adam returned to Scotland, and delivered a series of lectures which were very well-received. Smith was appointed first chair of logic in 1751 at the University of Glasgow and later then chair of moral philosophy in 1752. In 1764, Adam Smith left the academy to tutor the young Duke of Buccleuch. They lived and traveled in [[France]] and [[Switzerland]] for two years. The duke had given his teacher a comfortable life pension, so Adam Smith retired to Kirkcaldy and began writing his book, ''An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations''. In 1778 Smith was appointed to a post as commissioner of customs in Scotland and went to live with his mother in [[Edinburgh]]. He died there on July 17, 1790, after a painful illness and was buried in the Canongate Kirkyard, Royal Mile, Edinburgh. Smith is hailed as the one who discovered the [[invisible hand]], and explained the theoretical bases of free enterprise.

==Legacy==
With effect from March 13, 2007, Smith's [[portraits|portrait]] appears on the reverse of the English £20 note. He is the first true Scotsman to feature on currency issued by the [[Bank of England]], though others with Scottish noble titles have been so featured. His portrait also features on £50 notes issued by the Clydesdale Bank. Many members of the British Conservative Party revere his [[economics|economic]] philosophy and insights, and the [[Adam Smith Institute]] is a prominent UK pro-free market think tank.

== Links ==
*[[Economics Lecture One]]
*[[Libertarian]] thinking

==References==

<References/>

==External links==
* [http://plus.maths.org/issue14/features/smith/ Adam Smith and the invisible hand] - Helen Joyce
* [http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/bios/Smith.html Biography] at the ''Concise Encyclopedia of Economics''
* [http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Rae/raeLS.html ''Life of Adam Smith''] by John Rae, at the Library of Economics and Liberty
* [http://www.mises.org/web/2691 ''The Celebrated Adam Smith''] by Murray N. Rothbard; full text of Chapter 16 of ''An Austrian Perspective on the History of Economic Thought'', Vol. I and II, Edward Elgar, 1995; Ludwig von Mises Institute 2006
* [http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/smith.htm Smith's works]
*[http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWN.html ''An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations''] at MetaLibri Digital Library
*[http://www.econlib.org/library/Smith/smWNtoc.html ''An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations''], by Adam Smith. Fifth edition (1789), presented here, republished from: Edwin Cannan's annotated edition, 1904, Methuen & Co., Ltd. First edition: 1776.

{{DEFAULTSORT:Smith, Adam}}

[[Category:Authors]]
[[Category:Economists]]
[[Category:Philosophers]]
[[Category:Scottish People]]
[[Category:Capitalists]]
[[Category:Academics]]
[[Category:Libertarians]]
[[Category:Libertarianism]]

Talk:Barack Hussein Obama

2008-10-26T15:38:11Z

Marcdaniels: /* Berg Obama lawsuit */

Archives:
[[/archive1|1]]
[[/archive2|2]]
[[/archive3|3]]

== Not convenient for learning ==

This is a very interesting high school project. However, I was wondering what measures the authors take to prevent stupidity from creeping into these articles? Let's not even talk about the factual correctness -- I am interested in the ability of this "encyclopedia" to present cogent paragraphs of text. Let's look at the first few sentences:

''"In 2007, Obama was rated the most liberal Senator by the National Journal, who had rated Senator John Kerry the most liberal senator during his presidential run as well."''

The construction of this sentence implies that it is Kerry's rating that provides credence to the National Journal. Is the National Journal a questionable source otherwise?

''If elected, Obama would likely become the first Muslim President, and could use the Koran to be sworn into office.''

"would likely become" -- this phrase looks like something a recent learner of American English might write. Some examples of recent learners are Arab and Mexican immigrants. I do not see any objective explanations of the likelihood or its impact.

"could use the Koran" -- you are implying that he has the option to use the Koran to be sworn in. I don't see how this is interesting information : there are no rules of conduct during the oath. This sentence is as valuable as "could use a caribou head as a tertiary witness of the oath" -- it is not relevant and does not impact any of the other sentences in the article. I would like some detailed explanations as to why the Koran, specifically is undesirable and why it will bring forth a momentous event in American history.

''"Indeed, when unable to read from prepared text he often fails at articulating his positions and is caught tripping over his own feet."''

Misplaced metaphor : why is "tripping over his own feet" relevant? The intent of an encyclopedia is to be informative. For a young conservative, the first two paragraphs are highly confusing and hard to read. You have to make this stuff accessible to the kids. Where are the links that specify what "tripping over his own feet" means, and why it is not desirable? An encyclopedia should be complete and sound in its logic and information. Perhaps there should be a link to an article about Tripping.

Also, when talking about a person, one needs present information in an orderly manner. For example, the Obama article should start with lines about his questionable birth, which according to an editorial in a reputed conservative website, would have not taken occurred since Obama mandates the killing of unborn babies from less than ideal circumstances, like his own. Then, it should proceed with details about his childhood in Islamic countries, and then move on to his current stature and his perception amongst the true American people.

If the intent of this website is to inform little children about the true America, then it needs to be complete and comprehensive. The quality of this article will leave kids with more confusion in their minds than they started with. This confusion will lead to a lack in curiosity and will hinder the relevance of this website. Hence, for the sake of Conservapedia project, please improve the way these paragraphs are written.

: Trueism, I think there's some credence to your argument, and the article is due for revision (or at least reorganization). I think a strong and clear organization of the article would lead to greater readability and increase interest. Put up a structure for reorganization and then maybe we can work together on focusing the article into a more cohesive piece and work out some of the grammatical issues. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 17:40, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

: I didn't find anything insightful in the above unsigned comment. Organization of this entry, like all others, is to prioritize the information presented in terms of importance.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:17, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

== Reprehensible ==

Citations 7, 8 and 9 in the first bit of text on the Obama article are NOT true sources. When following down to the footnote, I couldn't get to a site and was exposed, instead, to what appeared to be little more than anecdotal evidence based upon the observation of, I can only assume, the person who wrote this. Any teacher, lawyer, judge, etc. would throw that out in two seconds for lack of credibility. An epic failure, indeed, for Conservatives everywhere on the part of whoever wrote that intro. I have edited it out. [[User:Acwellman|Acwellman]] 17:04, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:: I reinserted the footnotes as well as the paragraph that you removed relating to them. I think that your intentions were to cite only sources that can be proven to be "factually" true rather than things that can be inferred by the users of this website, and it doesn't always work like that. Citations 7 and 9 are inferences, not facts, but are seen as viable. If you have issue with this, I suggest you take it up with Andy.

To be honest, I think the issue you have is with the conservative point of view expressed on the page and site. If this is the case, perhaps this isn't the place for you. I'm not trying to be rude or scare you off, but I do want to explain that if you come to "Conservapedia" and don't expect to see something conservative, then you're kidding yourself.--[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 17:17, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

:Personally, I don't have a problem with a conservative viewpoint, in fact I welcome it; it's the pushing of the conservative political agenda that doesn't belong in a "Trustworthy Encyclopedia". But, if CP wants to keep marginalizing itself, I figure that's CP's business. I'll keep contributing either way.
:As for the subject at hand, the references are inadequate. An opinion piece and two unsupported statements. If Obama really said that regarding debates with Hillary, there should be a link or other reference showing it. As for the Saddleback Forum, surely there's a Youtube video or something. Why not link to it and let people decide for themselves whether Obama fumbled or not?--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 17:29, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== Meaning of Hussein ==

This has been brought up before, but I just wanted to do some research so we could clear it up: 1st point: According to the Oxford Dictionary of First Names, 2nd Edition (published 2006 by the Oxford University Press; authors Patrick Hanks, Kate Hardcastle, and Flavia Hodges; ISBN 0-19-861060-2) Hussein means this: " '''Husayn''' ♂ Diminutive of ''hasan'' 'good, beautiful, exquisite.' Al-Husayn (''c''.626-680) was the grandson of the Prophet, whose supporters emerged after his death as the Shiite party." Hussein is a variant of Husayn, yet it is unlisted in this dictionary. However, I think that it is apparent that this is simply a modified/altered form of the phonetic equivalent, much like Katherine/Catherine/Kathryn. Hussein/Husayn WAS the grandson of the Prophet, but to say that the name means such is akin to claiming that Mary means "Mother of Jesus." It may be a colloquial usage or have that connotative meaning, but until there is proof of that, then the entry seems to be incorrect. 2nd point: The source currently referenced (http://www.sudairy.com) displays this for the definition of Hussein: 
"'''Husain, Husayn, Hussein''' - Beautiful, doer of good deads[sic]; a descendent[sic] of the Prophet" which implies that the Oxford source is 1) more accurate as it is verifiable and edited by a trustworthy source and capable speller, and 2) "descendent[sic] of the Prophet" is in reference to the original namesake, though it is not clearly marked. If we are to trust sudairy.com as being completely accurate, however, then anyone named Hayyan, Hannad, or Nizar have the denotative travesty of meaning "Old Arabic Name." I think the entry should be changed to reflect this. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 16:52, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: I don't understand. You list one of the meanings as "a descendent[sic] of the Prophet." Are you trying to imply that this is not Mohammed?--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 16:18, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:: I listed the incorrect meaning as "descendent[sic] of the Prophet." This is from the website Suidairy.com, which is not an accurate source of information (my justification is the last paragraph of the first post). The definition I feel is most accurate is the Oxford one, listed above, which lists the definition as "good, beautiful, exquisite." Al-Husayn (a man, not a name) was the descendant of the prophet. For comparison, anyone named Jesus would not be assumed to be the son of God. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 16:25, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

== No longer presumptive ==

He's the real-deal nominee at this point. [[User:Athuroglossos|Athuroglossos]] 13:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:He's presumptive in the sense that Obama is far too inexperienced to be President. [[User:Redstatepride|Redstatepride]] 18:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Education In Jakarta, Indonesia ==

All students in Indonesia, regardless of religion get off for Islamic holy days including Nabi Isa which we know as Christmas. It's disengenuous to make a claim that because he went to a public school and got an Islamic holy day off that there's some nefarious connection. Muslims that attend Catholic school have to attend Mass whether they like it or not.--[[User:EmpressG1973|EmpressG1973]] 17:01, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

I think the point is that Barack Hussein Obama was observing an islamic holy day when he is claiming to be Christian. It just does'nt add up to alot of people and should make Christians think twice about him. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Actually it was his '''school''' that was observing the holiday. When a child attends a school, they can't just choose which days they want to take off. Your argument is ridiculous.-- [[User:rkstiner|rkstiner]]

How is my point incorrect? You can nit-pick it all you want but Obama attended a muslim school and observed muslim holidays. Thats all there is to it. Take your liberal name-calling elsewhere. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Name calling?....where?[[User:Rkstiner|Rkstiner]]

:So a Jew who attends a public school in this country doesn't go to school on Christmas, so he is therefore observing a Christian holiday? Making him, I suppose, a Christian? Doesn't make sense. [[User:MichaelR|MichaelR]] 16:08, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

::You shouldn't have to defend it at all. Barack Hussein Obama is very likely a muslim there is strong evidence to suggest it. Since when is being a muslim such a bad thing? It's not, unless your running for President and try to lie about it. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Patriot, your argument is one of the weakest that I have ever witnessed in my life; it is biased, and it doesn't stick to facts, rather it reflects your own personal views. You strike me as one of those people who believes that if a lie is told enough it will become true. If we go by your hypothesis, Rkstiner and others are right: a Jew who doesn't attend school on Christmas is transitively a Christian...Why don't you give Ann Coulter a call? I'm sure she'd go on a date with you.

== Reversion Explained ==

We don't post a politician's self-serving claptrap. Obama catered to anti-patriotic donors to win the nomination. There's no real dispute about that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:Remember, Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy, and children read this website. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::What's your point? That children don't need to know he flip flopped on wearing a flag pin? [[User:TJason|TJason]] 15:39, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::The point is that children especially should be told the truth. Include the flip-flopping by all means, but also include his explanation for why he did flip-flop. This has more validity then stating "but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation." Adequate to whom? By what criteria is the inadequacy judged? If he had explained it by saying "it's none of your business", or did not offer an explanation, then certainly that would qualify as "without adequate explanation." Remember: Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:56, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::I agree that citing his explanation and then explaining why conservatives find it inadequate would be an improvement. I would make said improvement, but I am currently hard "at work". [[User:TJason|TJason]] 16:09, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

I don't get any of the above. What does wearing a flag-pin have to do with one's loyalty to his or her country? The flag-pin evolved as an icon of the Iraq War and a lot of people, Republicans and Dems alike, do not support the war. I don't wear a flag pin, but that doesn't mean that I don't love my country. [[User:Acwellman|Acwellman]] 10:59, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

:Flag-pin evolved after 9/11 as a sign of patriotism. BO's reasons for not wearing and his change of position, plus his other anti-patriotic (see national anthem phot) are relevent.--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 11:37, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

== Affirmative Action President ==

I reverted the removal of "affirmative action president" for now. Corey, can you explain why this is racist? If affirmative action isn't racist, why is describing someone as an "affirmative action president" racist? Is your problem with the description that it is racist? Or that it is untrue? I think these are two separate issues. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 10:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:This speaks to what I think is an enormous problem with affirmative action (no, I'm not a complete supporter), claiming that a minority only got a job because they are a minority. I think that claiming that Barack Obama's political success comes only from his being black is racist demagoguery, or at least rhetoric designed to incite racial tensions. I have no doubt that there are some people who support Obama only because of the color of his skin, just the same as there are those who oppose him only for the same reason. Also, I will not say that there isn't a desire by many people to see somebody other than white male in the White House. But this is not the ''only'' reason most of Obama's supporters have for supporting him, as the term "affirmative action president" suggests. He has political experience and he is a deft politician, which figures greatly in a political campaign. I would implore anybody who considers Obama to have no accomplishments to compare his life to that of our sitting president before 2000. Some time in office, a string of business failures, and questionable service in the Texas Air National Guard. Fortunately for G.W. Bush, his father is Bush 41. Bush supporters discuss his successes as his own doing. Claiming that Obama's are not his own because he is black sounds rather racist to me. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::George W. Bush was governor of Texas; some people consider that to be a political accomplishment. I think you will have to go pretty far back to find a candidate for President whose entire political career was two years as a Senator. In 1988 Dan Quayle was blasted for his lack of experience for a Vice Presidential candidate, and he had already served many more years in the Congress than Barack Obama has. Like it or not Obama was fasttracked and bypassed the usual protocols because of the color of his skin. Whether or not this is appropriate is left to each individual to decide. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 11:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::A governorship is certainly a political accomplishment, one which George W. Bush would probably have been unable to attain were it not for his father's name. There is hardly any information on the George W. Bush entry on this site pertaining to his life before his presidency, the details of which would likely lead many people to conclude that were George H.W. Bush not so well-connected his son would not be president. In contrast, the opening paragraph of Obama's entry uses his race to attack him politically. I find this hard to rationalize. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::There is not usually an understood litmus test for governor. Some people are longterm politicians, others are not. For instance Arnold held only minor political appointments before he became governor of California. But the Presidency has generally required proving yourself in some capacity. Bush was a well respected governor who received high marks. Carter, Clinton, and Reagan had all been governors. Someone running for President who has not successfully governed a state and has only been in Congress for 2 years is very out of the ordinary. Again, note what Quayle was put through and he was only a Vice Presidential candidate. That being said, I am not necessarily supporting the article in the form it has taken. I have not read it in quite some time, but if it is a leadoff then that would seem to be inappropriate. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:47, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::Obama's experience is fair game, and I agree that he has not had as much time in political office as the average candidate. I think that using race as an issue detracts from this fair and logical line of debate. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::I don't think that the term "affirmative action president" suggests that affirmative action is the '''only''' reason Obama is where he is. I think the term is supposed to denote that his being black is a '''major''' force behind his success. Also, I think the term brings to light that, historically, this is a first. No previous nominee has been the beneficiary of affirmative action in the way Obama has. At any rate, ''I'' won't revert the edit if you remove it again, since you've made your case and I am not willing to fight to keep it in. I suspect others might, though. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:37, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Where has he explicitly benefited from affirmative action programs? This is a "heads, I win, tails, you lose" situation. If he doesn't get into Harvard Law or win an election, it's because of lack of merit. If he succeeds, it's because the standards were lowered due to his race. This is an extremely dubious political argument. Attack him on his policies, voting record, character, or fitness to lead: fire as they bear! That's our process, and it's a good process. But these race arguments are petty, desperate, and drag our political discourse down to a despicable level. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::I am pretty sure that Harvard Law Review has an affirmative action policy, but I will have to check. Regardless, I think the term also covers "implicit" affirmative action that has benefited Obama (e.g. a white candidate with his experience would not be taken seriously). [[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:10, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::"Implicit" affirmative action seems to be in the realm of vagueness and speculation. I refer you to Conservapedia Commandment 1: "Everything you post must be true and verifiable." [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::::Like I said, I'm not really willing to fight over this. We are at least in agreement that this is a distraction from the real issue: his actual positions. I reverted the edit because I thought what was said in the edit comment should have been spelled out in the talk page. It has been. Therefore, if you want to remove the reference again, I won't revert it again.[[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::::I have no intention of perpetuating a pointless revert war, either, and I agree that discussion of the real issues suffer because of such statements. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Alleged" birth revert ==

Even the National Review doesn't dispute the [http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk= authenticity of Obama's birth certificate.] Why is Obama's birth information being censored by this website? [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:30, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::There is no censorship here. Removing any mention that there is doubt about the authenticity of his birth certificate is censorship, imho. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:34, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::However, the way rumor is so prominently injected into the article within the first five words is clear weasel-wording. A separate section regarding the issue would be more appropriate than saying that he was "allegedly" born somewhere, and I wouldn't oppose such a section. Seeing as how you usually hear the word "allegedly" on the news while watching a video of a perp walk, it is unnecessarily loaded language. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:42, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::And accusing senior CP members of "weasel-wording" isn't loaded? You should watch your step. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 12:46, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::We Should add "allegedly" to everything just to be fair.

:: We know many [[liberal]]s love [[deceit]], and the birth certificate posted by [[Obama]]'s campaign has obvious defects. Even its number is blotted out for unexplained reasons. There are still unanswered questions about his place and date of birth, and what is on his real certificate, which his campaign has not released. We provide the information about this and let the reader decide.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:12, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Then maybe the thing to do would be to dedicate a separate section to present the issue. It would be much clearer and provide more information than the status quo. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 14:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I have reverted another removal of the word "alleged" since there are still unanswered questions about his birth certificate. Is the consensus that this should be made into a new section? [[User:TJason|TJason]] 17:18, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::I would agree with a section. This entire article could do with a better layout and more sectioning. Our John McCain article is better in this regard - perhaps we could use this as a blueprint? [[User:DefenderofTrue|DefenderofTrue]] 17:38, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) We seem to be in agreement. I'll make a section tomorrow, under the "Published Criticism" section. I would like to add that I love it when people of different viewpoints can meet in the middle. Good night. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 23:44, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:I like the changes you have made. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:37, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

::(edit conflict) Thank you. As discussed, I added a section regarding the birth certificate controversy and removed "alleged" from the intro paragraph. I tried to make it as evenly written as I could. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:40, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

::Also, what is up with the tag at the beginning of the article? I don't know what this is used for, but it doesn't appear to be doing anything except make "span" the first word in the article. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:44, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

:::1. You're right- I scanned the diff and thought he removed the Daily Kos ref. 2. I don't know. I never noticed it before. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:46, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

According to Berg, Obama’s paternal grandmother has said she was present at his birth in Kenya, after which his mother promptly returned with her baby to the United States. [http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_smears_fact_check/2008/10/20/142379.html] --'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 09:29, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:That source doesn't say what you claim it says. The source ''does'' say, however, that "No reporter has been allowed to see the original certificate of live birth or its certificate number, which is blacked out on copies of it on the Obama site." This is false, and has been false for months: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 16:43, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

== We have a problem ==

Okay... to start things off I am deathly afraid of this man getting elected and think he would ruin our wonderful nation. I do think that the media is helping him and realize that he is basically "the chosen one." My conservative principles help me make all of those opinions. Heres the thing. This place exists because someone thought that wikipedia was biased and unfair... but honestly... some of this stuff borders on propaganda! For Pete's sake our job as conservatives is too tell the truth and expose things about him. This page is going too far. I'm embarrassed to know that my fellow conservatives wrote this! This page can still be dedicated to exposing the truth about "the chosen one." But we'll be SO much more effective if we do it properly and fairly. If you want to contact me its easier to do so at my wikipedia talk page of the same name. Thank you and lets try to do better please. [[User:Saksjn|Saksjn]] 15:32, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

: A true conservative would be appalled at Wikipedia and not contribute to their cause-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 20:39, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

== Hussein Obama's Birth Certificate Number ==

I copied this from the [[Talk:Main_Page#Obama_Born_In_U.S.A.|Main Page Talk section]] to here because you all might find it of interest. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:32, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

----
:[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Look at this photo], is this Barack Obama's birth certificate? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 23:44, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::It's interesting that they finally give the, so-called authentic, birth certificate number in this supposedly unfaked photo. It is '''151 1961 - 010641'''. The reason I bring this up, and I think the REAL reason this was masked, is because numerological analysis shows something very disturbing. If you add up the three sets of digits thus:<blockquote>151 + 1961 + 010641 = 12753</blockquote>and then add the individual digits of the result thus:<blockquote>1 + 2 + 7 + 5 + 3 = 18</blockquote>the final result, 18, is the product of three sixes (3 x 6 = 18). Three sixes, or [[666]], sort of speaks for itself. I just thought this was interesting. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:22, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

::::This has almost as much relevance as making a connection between McCain and Cain. Yes, John McCain is obviously a descendent of a murderer, and hence, must be a murderer himself.

::One point missed. Obama is from Chicago. Chicago's zip code is 60606. Add those sixes you get the number of the Devil himself.--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 21:40, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Are you asserting that the 2,836,658 inhabitants of Chicago are Devils, Muslims or Antichrists due to their zip code.
----

I think it's rather obvious that AdmiralNelson doesn't take this site seriously. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 20:51, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Does anyone? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 21:05, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:: I'm giving it a chance. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 21:14, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:::So am I. I new here and was hoping to find stuff that would challenge my beliefs, so far not much luck. [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 21:21, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Can I quote myself? '''I just thought this was interesting.''' For "seriousness" [[Special:Contributions/AdmiralNelson|I stand by my record]]. Feel free to check it out. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:29, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

You have too much free time, AdmiralNelson [[User:Acwellman|Acwellman]] 11:15, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

==Lawsuit==
The guy filing the lawsuit doesn't dispute the fact that he he was born in Honolulu. He is disputing that Obama is a US citizen after he lived in Indonesia. So why does it say allegedly born still? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 19:08, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

: I think he does dispute it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

: ASchlafly is correct - Philip J. Berg is alleging that Barrack Obama forged his birth-certificate because he was not a Natural Born US citizen. [http://obamacrimes.com/ Berg vs Obama] --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 14:50, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dilution ==

Don't dilute the entry by referring to the silly text messaging stunt in the first paragraph.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

:Can I put it down in the Presidential Campaign section instead then? --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 10:49, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Requested change ==
Original text:
{{Cquote|On June 3rd, Barack Obama had received enough pledged delegates and the endorsement of superdelegates to be called the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party by the Democratic National Committee. The nomination became official when Hillary Clinton conceded on June 7th.}}
Requested new text:
{{Cquote|Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee on June 3rd after receiving a majority of pledged delegates and superdelegates. His only remaining primary opponent, [[Hillary Clinton]], conceded the race on June 7th. On August 23, Joe Biden was announced as Obama's vice-presidential nominee. Obama became the official Democratic nominee on August 27 at the Democratic National Convention, when Hillary Clinton's motion to end the roll call vote of the states and select Obama by acclamation was passed.}}
This more accurately describes what happened and updates the section with last week's events. --[[User:Ampersand|Ampersand]] 17:02, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
===Another===
[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=506483&oldid=505653 This link] should be commented out until [[Essay: The Special Interests Candidate| this abysmal essay]] is fixed. [[User talk:MargeryCampbell|Marge]] 17:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

==Pearl Harbor issue==

The entire section regarding his comments about Pearl Harbor has got to go. There is no reason to imply that someone leaving an 's' off the word 'bomb' (''bomb'''s''''' did fall on Pearl Harbor, that much is true, right?) means they ignore or disdain American history. I'm guessing the McCain article makes no immediate mention of his confusion over the borders of Iran, or his lack of knowledge about the situation in Iraq, illustrated by the fact that he mixed up the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. Do either of those things make sense? NO! I'm sure John McCain knows what he's talking about, and I'm sure he's not confused about the issues at hand. Obviously, which course of action he chooses to follow is eternally and rightly up for debate, and if we want to highlight that debate about Obama, then that's fine. But it's ridiculous - nay, ridicule-worthy - to say that Obama leaving out an 's' means he thinks Pearl Harbor was nuked. That's so stupid it turns neurons into Pop Rocks. [[User:OtherSide|OtherSide]] 19:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

No, it should stay, the man's an idiot, clearly. Also - I added the "any educated person would know" bit, which Jareddr just removed. But I'd point out that many of the younger generation ''don't'' know that it wasn't one bomb. I've even spoken to young folk who confuse Pearl Harbor with Hiroshima, and think that the nuclear bomb was dropped on Pearl Harbor! It's remarkable how uneducated some of today's public-school educated youth are. Also, people from foreign countries may not know the context of Obama's gaffe. Perhaps that point might be allowed back in - Jareddr, if you want to re-word it yourself maybe? I think it's kind of important, the stupidity of his point might be missed otherwise. [[User:RobCross|RobCross]] 14:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:Then state something to the effect of, "In actuality, multiple bombs were dropped on Pearl Harbor during the Japanese mission." You didn't say anything about being foreign-educated, only "any educated person..." If you want to place it in context using my above phrasing, go ahead. But the entire section has already been set up to switch verbal miscues for "idiocy" so no need to pile on, as they say.

:Besides, you don't see anything on McCain's pages about him "not knowing" the difference between Sunni and Shiite, referencing Czechoslovakia (a now defunct country), or calling Putin the President of Germany.--[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 14:58, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:OK, I'l do that then Jareddr, thanks for the suggestion. As to the McCain entry, I don't think we need to highlight those issues, they're a distraction. [[User:RobCross|RobCross]] 15:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::True, we don't want to confuse the readers about the candidate storylines. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:11, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::The entry should be removed, since McCain failed to state how many homes he owns is no where to be seen on the McCain article. [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 15:43, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::::Don't be ridiculous, Samuel. Many everyday Americans have trouble remembering how many homes they own. Sometimes they own a home, but it's in someone else's name, or it's just a vacation lodge, or it's a few homes on one piece of property. Ask people on the street how many homes they own, and I guarantee very few will answer! --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::::: McCain isn't running to be a real estate agent for the country.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:52, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::True, but he spoke about real estate business, and it's undeniably a large factor in the economy, which is a current problem. Compare that to Obama and 60 years ago? Oh Please. Thanks for the sarcasm Jared. :P [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 16:39, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::: Obama isn't running to be a history teacher for the country either, though. One could argue that if you're going to enforce a populist message, and cast yourself as an "everyman" and your opponent as "elite", you should be able to answer how many homes you have on command. We're not looking for net value, just a (presumably) single-digit number. I'm not aware of any "everyman" that forgets that number, but I'm sure some "elite" may forget. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 16:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::: Obama can try that next, Samuel: "Who cares about what happened at Pearl Harbor? That was 60 years ago!!!" Good luck to him and his supporters with that absurd approach.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:12, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::What's more absurd is putting words in my mouth (as well as Obama's, apparently?), as if I were trying to say that I didn't care about Pearl Harbor. I said no such thing. I was comparing something that happened over 60 years ago to present time in relevance to gaffe, nothing more and nothing less, in comparison to Obama's article and McCain's. [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 19:29, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::::: Obama's gaffe was about an essential element of American history that defines our country; McCain's was not. We do expect presidents to know important aspects of American history. We really do. We don't care if they can tell you how wealthy they are, or how many houses they own.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:35, 5 September 2008 (EDT)--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:35, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::::::And yet McCain's belief in an Iraq/Pakistan border - and his belief that a country named "Czechoslovakia" still exists - shows how out of touch he may be with the issues that matter NOW.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 19:42, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:I won't compare the semantics of how you measure the impact and importance of a slip-up, but it ''is'' rather telling that the Obama article prominently features such a slip-up while the McCain article apparently doesn't. This doesn't compute. Both of them have had weird moments ("President Putin of Germany", anybody?), and in fact, everybody has slip-ups. Bushisms, anybody? So why do we have to pick on Obama's mistakes alone?
:An encyclopedia needs consistent standards. Entries about similar topics should be comparable. They should be similar in style. They should follow the same intuitive standards.
:Overall, the McCain article looks like a very good example of how such an entry should look like (kudos to those who made it that way), and the Obama article is a prime example of something that would look great on some obvious right-wing propaganda site, but ''not'' in an encyclopedia. The part before the TOC should be condensed and moved to another part of the article. The intro section (the part before the TOC) is supposed to be an ''intro''. It should briefly sum up who he is and what he does, period. Then come biography sections, then his political stuff, then the Presidential campaign. And THERE you should feature the notable events or slip-ups. I'm most definitely no Obama supporter, but when comparing the McCain and Obama articles, you don't have to do a deep analysis to figure out that this site is way more political activism than encyclopedia, and I think that should change. --[[User:DirkB|DirkB]] 20:22, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

Remember when George H. W. Bush got the date wrong for Pearl Harbor by months? And he's a WWII veteran! 'Bomb' was a slip of the tongue, nothing more. [[User:CraigC|CraigC]] 21:14, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

== Citation Needed ==

The first sentence in the second paragraph about Barack Obama reads this:
Obama almost always reads from prepared text on a teleprompter and rarely allows tough questions.

It then gives the citation down at the bottom, which reads this:
After one debate against Hillary Clinton in Philadelphia, the Obama campaign announced that the questions were too difficult and that Obama would not agree to future debates with her.

I don't think that's a real citation. Does a link not need to be provided? Just like anybody can type anything on the main page, anybody can type anything as the citation too. I would suggest either finding legitimate proof to this claim, or just take it down.

== Tone of the article on Obama ==

The whole tone of this article on Barack Obama is appalling. It is poorly written, inaccurate, misleading, insulting and thoroughly vile. I would be ashamed to publish such contemptible stuff.

: That's your first -- and only -- contribution here. Hope you can do better than that!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:17, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

It's been some time since I last visited. Your article gives me immense pleasure to read. Imagine if Obama were headed for defeat, rather than McCain. Imagine if the Wikipedia article on McCain began,"Of dubious U.S. citizenship, 'John' McCain was allegedly born in Panama. It is not impossible and cannot be totally ruled out that the "John" refers to a propensity to patronize prostitutes, which are plentiful in that country." Would you not show the article to your colleagues in great delight? We on the left salute you. You are almost as effective in our behalf as a fundraiser. ;-) [[User:Archer070]]

== Tone of the article on Obama ==

I see someone is watching the Obama talk page like a hawk. I stand by my previous remarks and hope to be adding many more in the near future.

: Good for you. And my hope is that you'll have better contributions to this site than what you've done so far.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:25, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I have to say that to a foreigner, this article reads like one-sided drivel. Some of it is so blatantly ridiculous that it gives a negative impression of the people writing it, not Obama. Surely you should be attacking him over his policies rather than a non-existent issue over where he was born or some completely pathetic nonsense about him taking holidays at the same time as other kids in his school. (Amazing but true: Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist children in Britain take holidays at Christmas and Easter; they don't volunteer for extra classes on those days.) This article reads as though you've given up all hope of defeating him on political grounds and are just falling back on rather silly personal remarks. Surely you can do better than that! (Kindly read that as constructive criticism.) [[User:Googly|Googly]] 19:45, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

I am a Canadian Conservative. I was surprised to see that McCain, Palin and Biden all have their official photographs on their pages, but Barack Obama has a press photo that portrays him in a negative light. Surely we can do better than that? Does this not just reinforce the feeling among undecided Americans and the rest of the world that the right has a major grudge against Obama? Perhaps because he is an African-American, etc? I am not attributing a reason why this site chose an unflattering photo of the only non-white candidate among the Big 4 in this election. It is just how it seems to an outsider. Come on, guys, he will most likely be the President in 2 weeks, let's not make that a little more likely. In case you missed it, these things just do two things:

1) for a McCain supporter, a few chuckles and comment: "right on!" comment, and
2) for an undecided voter: "woah...that's WAAAY out of line...what, so they are basically racist or what?"

3) A Democrat would not even be on this site, so their PoV is not relevant

Admin...be fair and change the picture.

== I'm noticing a very disturbing pattern... ==

# (cur) (last) 15:45, 8 September 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (59,707 bytes) (Reverted edits by Lodovico (Talk); changed back to last version by Ampersand) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 15:42, 8 September 2008 Lodovico (Talk | contribs) m (59,972 bytes) (Corrected information of misinterpretation) (undo)

Alright, so notice that Lodovico makes an edit, and adds sufficient reasoning for his edit in the apt column. Notice then that Andrew changes it, and doesn't even look to the talk page to provide ANY reasoning.

# (cur) (last) 23:55, 6 September 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (58,039 bytes) (Reverted edits by Chippeterson (Talk); changed back to last version by AliceBG) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 23:52, 6 September 2008 Chippeterson (Talk | contribs) (58,095 bytes) (→Senate career) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 14:19, 6 September 2008 Chippeterson (Talk | contribs) (58,052 bytes) (I don't like Obama anymore then ayone else on Conservapedia, but come on. The two pictures should be reversed) (undo)

Here again we have a very reasonable edit, that it reverted without adequate explanation.

# (cur) (last) 14:36, 25 August 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (57,388 bytes) (Reverted edits by Impm (Talk); changed back to last version by Aschlafly) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 14:35, 25 August 2008 Impm (Talk | contribs) (57,106 bytes) (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html He was born in Hawaii unequivocally.) (undo)

Impm makes what appears to be a reasonable edit, and Andrew changes it again.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Barack_Obama#Citation_Needed <--- Here is another example; everyone is discussing the pertinent issue, including Andrew, but then drops out of the picture and: (cur) (last) 10:09, 27 August 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) (57,862 bytes) (restored material deleted by liberal censorship) (undo)

I'm just wondering, but why is it we have to discuss changes we want to make whenever an edit conflict arises, but Andrew doesn't? This makes it essentially impossible to edit any article that Andrew has become party to because you can never know which of your edits will be acceptable or not.

Then there is this: http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Barack_Obama#Affirmative_Action_President

Despite the lack as a citation for the statement that caused that particular talk-page topic to manifest, and the lack-of-response from Andrew, any time this statement is changed Andrew swoops in and reverts it.

Am I alone in seeing this? Do I see a ghost ruffling the leafs or is it simply just the wind?[[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 19:51, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
:I've noticed it too, but I didn't think asking him about it would change anything. Especially on the "affirmative action president" thing. --[[User:Ampersand|Ampersand]] 23:15, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

::This is inane. It's been more at least a day now and we haven't even gotten a one sentence response yet; just more reverted edits without adequate explanation. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 18:28, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

::Welcome to conservapedia. Often if you attempt to question the work of ASchlafly, he will simply ignore you. --[[User:AndrasK|AndrasK]] 18:33, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

::Jirby, be concise in your comments. This site isn't a liberal blog where people talk, talk, talk without saying anything. Reversions do not have a place for summarizing the reason in the wiki software. Also, people who only criticize conservatives without criticizing the liberal vandals lack credibility.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:43, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:::So the best you can do... is complain that my words are too big and my sentences are too long? And here I was trying my best not to mischaracterize you. Shame on me! It is also clearly evident that revisions do not have a comment box, but how does that keep you from posting your reasons for consistently reverting factual edits here? It doesn't. My concern also isn't with liberal/conservative/anarchist vandals because they're freaking obvious and will be dealt with without my input (unless in the case of the uppity negro comment from before) they have fallen under the radar of authority and it behooves me to say something. Now stop trying to shift this in a way as if it is MY fault for trying to make you accountable as per your own rules. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 18:49, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:::: Jirby, your above rant illustrates my point. I'm moving on and request that you be substantive and concise in the future.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:53, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

==Large repetitions!==
The "Published Criticism" section repeats, aside from a couple of sentances, almost word for word the introduction. This needs changing as it looks silly to have repetitions so I am going to leave this comment to see if there is any response and wait 48 hours and then go to work on fixing it. [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 21:17, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

: Fine, but don't remove information from the introduction. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:18, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

::I'll only remove the double-ups from the lower section. Thanks for the quick response! [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 21:20, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

== Marxist/redistrubution of wealth line ==

Was just trying to [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=512956&oldid=512942 fix my spelling error], not trying to revert Andy. --[[User:GunsandaBible|GunsandaBible]].

=="My Muslim Faith" quote==
I've seen the video of this quote and it is taken totally out of context. What Obama is saying is that JOhn McCain has not accused him of being a secret muslim. Does anyone really believe that this is Obama mistakenly revealing that he is a muslim? Anyone who has seen the video can't seriously believe that this is the case. This quote should be removed before people start taking it seriously. [[User:Billgates3|Billgates3]]

:Can someone explain why you think it would be such a big deal if Barack Obama were actually Muslim? (Leaving aside for the moment the lack of any evidence that he ever has been a Muslim.) I thought you guys in the USA believed in separation of religion and the state, so why does it matter what religion, if any, the President happens to follow? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 20:13, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

:: As a Democrat who will be voting for Obama, I think (and I really hope that this is the general consensus) that the main issue would be that he's lied. I'd like to think that somebody saying up front that they were a Muslim wouldn't be a reason to vote against them if they're wholly qualified otherwise, but IF it turns out that somebody can prove that he really is a Muslim (I highly doubt anything like that can turn up, since everything out there now is just gossip), then he'll be caught in a BIG lie that would kill his credibility with everything. [[User:Mk|Mk]] 15:12, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

== Muslim & Catholic holidays ==

Why on earth are CP people bothered about the fact that Obama had holidays for Muslim festivals when he went to school in a Muslim country? Muslim (and Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish and Zoroastrian) children take days off school for Christian holidays in the UK without society collapsing. Honestly, some of the stuff on this page is just weird. Why on earth don't you guys concentrate on his policies (or lack of any) instead of getting so worked up about personal matters which are complete non-issues? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 19:27, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

:It is a matter of honesty which Obama will not address. America has never elected somebody with such a secret history as Barack hides from. Criticize CP all you want, I don't expect you to last here that long. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 21:12, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

::Err... why not, exactly? What's the problem with suggesting that politically-active people in the USA should concentrate on politics, not on minor details (or utterly trivial ones, in this case) of a candidate's personal life? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 12:54, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== Unreliable sourcing and references ==

The section on Obama's "secrecy" cites only a blog which gives no sources. Unless there are complaints or offers to better source it, I will remove this section or shorten it.

The section on Obama's middle name is also poorly sourced. It is claimed that "most" people change their names when they undergo a religious conversion. The cite refers to two people who converted to Christianity and then changed their names. "For example" can never be used to prove "most". Unless someone offers a statistic backing up the "most" claim, I will change it to "some". Additionally, the citation given for the meaning of "Hussein" is to a names list on about.com. There is no way this can be considered authoritative, and in any case the alternate meaning ("handsome") should also be reported lest we be accused of fearmongering.

Finally, I fail to see how "there are few atheists in Kenya" could possibly be seen as an argument against Obama's father being nonreligious. There are also few admirals in the US; does this mean McCain's father wasn't an admiral? [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:22, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

::Seeing no objection on the talk page or attempts to correct the faulty information during the last 24 hours or so, I've gone ahead and made the edits. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:39, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::Sorry, wholesale deletion of content, some which has been discussed on the talk page, is inappropriate at your rank of contributions.-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 15:48, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Surprise, surprise. Everything Egen deleted was either unsourced or irrelevant.--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 19:29, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:::This "content" is worthless and factually inaccurate in a way that's absolutely obvious to anyone reading it. The page is already too long and having such nonsense on the page is a severe detriment to our credibility. No one even attempted to respond to my reasoning and I gave ample time to allow disagreements. If ANYONE can provide reliable evidence that "most" people change their name when they convert, that Obama's father was not an atheist, and that Hussein means "descendent of the prophet Muhammad" (a baby names site is not reliable evidence) then please do so. (The last statement is, in fact, false. In Arabic, you would never simply refer to any descendant of Muhammad as "Hussein". "Hussein" does not mean "descendant of Muhammad" any more than James means "brother of Jesus.") [[User:Egen|Egen]] 19:26, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

==Senate career==
HelpJazz, the stat is no good. It is an attempt at obfusication, it's not 1 billion, it is only 18%, gee. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 23:54, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
:Uh, it say right in the article "$936 million". The 18% figure only adds to the figure, it takes away nothing. Obama has a lifetime score of 18%, which is far below failing and far below the Republican average. Plus, if you really thought that the 18% figure was obsfucation (which, I'll reiterate, doesn't make any sense) then why did you take away the scale, which gives meaning to the number? If I said that Barack Obama scored a 397 on a liberalness test, you would want to know what that score means, no? And you would want to know how he compares to other liberals, right? You wouldn't say "he scored 397 on a liberalness test -- that's just under 400!" because that doesn't add anything to the article. Your "500k/day" stat ''does'' add to the article. Even though there's nothing to compare it to, it's still a nice number that hits home how big almost a billion is. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:44, 22 September 2008 (EDT) PS: Sorry to keep you waiting, editing cut off early last night, and wasn't on this morning before I went to work.

==Muslim==

I know this has been talked about a lot here, but i would like for someone to prove to me byond a reasonable doubt that Obama is a muslim. Otherwise, i don't think we should have him in the 'muslims' category. so, can someone provide irrefutable proof that Barack Obama is a practicing muslim?
:Reasonable doubt is enough, or no article would have categories. [[User:Devout|Devout]] 15:16, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
::based on that logic i could say McCain is ineligible to be US President due to his birth in the Panama Canal Zone due to the US returning it. [[User:Xapdal5|Xapdal5]] 23:08, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

My parents and pastor always taught me not to lie, so when I heard there was a website that dealt more fairly with intelligent design and creationism than most, I wanted to check it out. I was quite upset to find a site filled with such dishonesty, double-standards, and vitriol. I don't recall that part of my bible that says 'don't lie unless it's about someone of the rival political party.' [[User:Booster|Booster]] 17:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Booster, you are not looking at this issue properly. It is not a matter of party. Obama is a Muslim. The United States is, by tradition, a Christin nation. As Devout notes, there is enough reasonable doubt that no true Christian can vote for him.--[[User:Saxplayer|Saxplayer]] 17:56, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

::::But he's NOT a Muslim. Misspeaking once or twice doesn't make you a Muslim. Not wearing a flag-pin doesn't make you a Muslim. A funny name doesn't make you a Muslim. My middle name is Caesar and I don't worship Zeus. If the man was a Muslim, there would be real evidence, unless we contend that he hides under the blanket at night and reads the Koran by flashlight. I'm not going to vote for the man because I fundamentally disagree with many of his policies, not because of untruths posted about his religion. [[User:Booster|Booster]] 22:29, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

::::You say he's a Muslim? Heck, I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that's all the proof I need!--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 18:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

I am proud muslim but not from united states. Obama is very good but not muslim. That is ok. Also, I read article and it say that Obama not change his name. Around me, muslims convert to jesus but do not change their names. I will change article if that is ok. [[User:SyedO|SyedO]] 18:06, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

The issue is that the United States is a Christian Nation. We are one nation under God, not mohammad or allah. That probably offends liberals, but it's the truth. [[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]
::...Allah is Arabic for God, it's actually used by anyone who speaks Arabic no matter if they are Muslim, Christian, or Jew. That and it's the same god, the god of Abraham. Also, Mohammad is an important non-divine figurehead in Islam, but I don't think "One nation under Mohammad" would be used than "One nation under Moses". I'm sure liberals as well as anyone else with the basic knowledge of religion or law ''is'' offended by your lack of understanding. --[[User:Rainedaye|Rainedaye]] 17:03, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

:Not that it matters, because Obama is not a Muslim unless anyone can provide any actual evidence to suggest that he is. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 16:32, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

The US is not a Christian nation. It clearly states in the constitution that church and state are separate. while there might be christian influences it does not mean we are a christian nation. [[User:Xapdal5|Xapdal5]] 23:14, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I have yet to see conclusive evidense that he is a muslim. i am removing him from that category.

: Perhaps we should have a category called "Suspected Muslims" or "Crypto-Muslims"? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:25, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

Seriously, this should be removed. If he says he is a Christian then he is a Christian. You can't go and examine the details of the lives of every person to see if they are a "true" Christian or not, isn't there something in the bible about not judging people? None of those points give any real plausible reason to think he is a Muslim. Just because conversions are rare does not mean they are impossible. Congratulations, Obama may just be a part of that 1%. His name does not reflect his faith, every man named "Jesus" is not a Christian. Respecting a man who was Muslim does not make you a Muslim. I'm inspired Ghandi and that doesn't make me a Hindu. Reading a Muslim book does not make you a Muslim. I'm read parts of the bible, the quar'an, the torah, the dhammapada, the Rig Veda, as well as works of fiction written by the views of all of these religions. It would be silly to say that I am an adherent to all or any of them just because I have read them. Pronouncing the name of a country correctly is also not an indication of religion, or is General Petraeus a Muslim too? Of course I also wonder why this is such a prominent thing to begin with. He's a presidential candidate and the top of his page here is devoted to speculation about his religious faith. Isn't his policy much more important? I for one don't see the problem in having a Muslim president. --[[User:Rainedaye|Rainedaye]] 17:03, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

== What does "alleged" mean ==

"Does it mean he may have been born somewhere else," or that "his live birth is contested?" "Is it supposed to mean he may have been hatched?" Then he'd be evolved, right libs? Some people on here are so dumb it frightening. [[User:LarryHapp|LarryHapp]] 15:42, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Allegations of Homosexuality & Drug Use ==

I'm surprised that this article did not mention the compelling allegations of homosexuality and drug-abuse. One witness (a former homosexual called Larry Sinclair) confessed in great detail an event in which he consumed cocaine and performed oral-sex on Obama (this was a few years before he became a senator).

This issue has been the subject of at least two court-cases - both were dismissed on technicalities, conveniently allowing Mr. Obama to avoid tackling the substantive issue.

Despite being repeatedly asked to deny or even comment about these allegations Team-Obama has remained utterly silent. Surely (as Mr. Sinclair stated) - if somebody made an allegation which was incorrect you'd deny it or at least tell your side of the story. Obama's silence on this issue (as so many others) is worthy of suspicion. With the permission of my fellow Conservapedia users I'd like to add a summaary of these alegations to the article. --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:12, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

:He's already admitted to cocaine use in one of his books (''Dreams from my Father'', I think.)--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 22:15, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
::Any nutball can allege anything. Some things are below notice. [[User:CraigC|CraigC]] 08:34, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::That is true, however Larry Sinclair has been vetted by a great many conservative journalists. His story has yet to be disproven, and furthermore he has come under a great deal of attack by Joe Biden's people. Given that Sinclair's story is merely corroborating something that Obama has already admitted, why exclude it from what ought to be an authoritative article? Obama supporters have called Sinclar a nut (and much worse), but none of them have disproven his allegations? Ask yourself - why is it that Obama has not attempted to disprove that he had a homosexual liason and took crack-cocaine with Mr. Sinclair that night? His silence on the topic does not make any sense. --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 08:40, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

::: No, not everyone bothers to deny every allegation. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 09:58, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I agree, not everybody bothers to deny everything, for example if I accused you of being an "alien from outer-space" or something entirely preposterous then you might be right to disregard my comments. On the other hand Sinclair has only accused Obama of things which he has partly confessed to. Regarding drug-taking, Obama confessed that he had tried drugs as a young man but had given up. Sinclair contends that he witnessed Obama using drugs relatively recently.

:: Your point would be entirely relevant to this case if the Obama people were simply ignoring Sinclair, however as anybody who has watched this story unfold can see Obama's people have done anything but ignore Sinclair. In fact, he was the victim of a very organized campaign to discredit him. Biden's people arranged for him to be arrested during one of his press conferences (you can see it on Youtube if you do not believe me).

:: This article has presented a great deal of evidence that Mr. Obama can be sneaky and deceptive. We know that America harbors a great deal of drug-users and homosexuals. Why do you believe that somebody who faked a legal document (like a Birth Certificate) might be incapable of other acts of immorality? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:21, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== A compromise for place of birth issues? ==

Rather than simply state that he was allegedly born in a state of the USA, how about we outline the various conflicting theories regarding his place of birth, the primary evidence of each of those theories and the principle backers of each of those theories. That way we can be fair and balanced with regards to this issue? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:30, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== "Pokiston"????? ==

What's this nonsense on the News section of the Main Page about a '''Muslim''' pronounciation of Pakistan as 'Pokiston'? For one thing, there's no such thing as a Muslim pronounciation of anything - a Muslim from Glasgow sounds Scottish, a Muslim from Madras sounds South Indian. For another, the Pakistani pronounciation of Pakistan is 'Paakistaan' - long aa's (aaah). Please delete this item from the News - it just makes CP look silly. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 20:51, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: I don't think what you said is true. Arabic is the language of the Koran, having a Muslim pronunciations, and "Pakistan" is a word created by Muslims, having a Muslim pronunciation. There is Muslim pronunciation used by Obama and a very different English pronunciation used by most Americans.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::: The pronounciation of the word as used in India and Pakistan - by Hindus, Muslims, Christians and everyone else - is Paakistaan. That would also be an transliteration of the word into English. It's now also much the most common pronounciation in the UK; before about 1970 in the UK, both "a"s were pronounced as the short, semi-closed "a" as in cat, hat, fat, etc, but it's changed to become closer to the Indian/Pakistani pronounciation. I daresay the "cat/hat/fat" vowel sound might still be used "by most Americans" (to quote you) but that isn't the usage in India, Pakistan or the UK. I have no idea how Obama says Pakistan but there's no more a Muslim pronounciation of the word than there is a Hindu or Christian one. In any case, Pakistan is an Urdu word, not an Arabic one. It makes no more sense to say that 'Pakistan' is an Arabic word than to say that 'automobile' is a Greek word. And finally, why does this matter to you? [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 20:32, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Andy- just because Arabic is the language of the Koran, that doesn't mean that there is such a thing as "Muslim pronounciations." In this last statement, you've conflated religion ("Muslim pronounciation"), linguistic groups ("Arabic") and nationalities ("Pakistan" and "English pronounciation used by most Americans.") They are all different, and all complex. A French-speaking Algerian isn't going to pronounce "Pakistan" the same way as an Arabic-speaking Sudanese or an Indonesian. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:03, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, right, an American doesn't pronounce Pakistan the way that Muslims educated in Indonesia do, which underscores the point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:14, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::: But isn't Obama an American? --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 16:15, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::He ''claims'' to be. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 16:20, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::I know LOTS of Americans who use the pronounciation in question. And Brits, too. Look at it this way: if the link between the language of the Koran and the billion or so Muslims scattered across the globe means that there is such a thing as "Muslim pronounciation," does that mean that the world's Christians--Swedes, Phillipinos, Americans, Candians, Irish, Brazilians, French, Germans, all share "Christian pronounciations" that can be traced back to Hebrew, Aramaic and ancient Greek? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:18, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::::::Quite correct, AliceBG. A Christian from South India doesn't sounds like a Christian from Scotland and a Muslim from Scotland doesn't sound like a Muslim from South India. Putting stuff like this "Pokiston" issue on CP's front page gives the impression that Aschafly and his colleagues have no serious issues with which to attack Obama and are forced to resort to personal trivia of the silliest kind. I really don't understand why Aschafly & friends don't focus on the politics. This is very peculiar to people outside the USA. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 14:34, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Liberals protest here too much to the observation that Obama uses the Muslim pronunciation of Pakistan rather than the virtually universal American pronunciation. But nothing in the liberal protests explains the clear difference in a satisfactory manner.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:40, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Actually, many of the protests have pointed out clearly that your assertion is based on a mistaken conflation between religion and linguistic groups, have pointed to the fact that Muslims from different language groups pronounce words differently, and have pointed out that the notion of "Christian pronounciation" would obviously be an impossible phenomenon to talk about. i'd repeat myself, but I'd rather go back to improving your encyclopedia for you. Asalaam Aleikum.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:47, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Aschafly, why is pointing out an instance where CP is talking nonsense 'liberal'? [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 16:14, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

This is just ridiculous. What is a "Muslim pronunciation?" Muslims everywhere pronounce words and names differently. If anything, an "Arabic pronunciation" might exist, but that is debatable. And don't give me the crap about that because Arabic is the language of the Koran, everyone who uses an Arabic pronunciation is Muslim. Arab Christians around the world speak Arabic. Plus, Arabic was being spoken way before Islam cam around. The name of the country should be pronounced the way it actually sounds, as dictated by the natives. Iraq is not "eye-rack," it is pronounced Irok. The fact that Obama pronounces Pakistan properly just shows that he is attentive to the culture and language of the country, (a key ally that we are in danger of losing, by the way), not that he is a Muslim. Even if there were some kind of valid point in the "Pokiston" argument, which there is most definitely not, it would be minuscule considering the broader scale of things. This whole section has just got to go.

: You protest too much. There is a common American pronunciation of "Pakistan", but Obama uses the different pronunciation he either learned while attending a Muslim grade school, or heard from his closest advisers over the past 20 years. It's informative to point that out, whether you think he's "correct" or not. Pronunciations can be illustrative of one's culture and beliefs. It suggests the pronunciation used by one's teachers and advisers.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:37, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Notice that you didn't address any of the actual points I made. I say "Pokistan." I avoid saying "eye-rack." Am I a Muslim? And what is an "American" pronunciation? As far as I know, there is no "American" way of saying anything. Do you mean an English pronunciation? I am simply baffled by some of the things people say on this site.

:::I agree with what's been said above : "Pokistan" is not an exclusively "Muslim" pronunciation (if there's such a thing...). The article would be much stronger without this unnecessary point : don't we have enough evidence of Obama's faith?

== Section headings ==

This is a long article with a large variety of sub-topics. I've inserted a half-dozen section headings that improve readability and organization. While it might be a good idea to think about re-organizing the sections and moving particular facts into different sections, I really think the piece needs to be broken up like this--plus it makes it more effective, acting as a catalogue of important questions and criticisms.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:51, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

: The greatest insights are going on the first screen page, period.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:58, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Fine--why undo the section headings, then? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:59, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::I think I see the problem - when a section heading is inserted higher up, the contents block, which is rather large, takes up most of the first screen. However, if you hit the "hide" button on the contents block, it takes up very little space and the insights are on the first screen page. It seems to be a "sticky" hide also, as it continues to be hidden when I re-load the page. I hope this helps. Like [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]], I'm just attempting to improve readability by inserting section headings. I do not want to remove any insights, or hide any. I believe section headings actually make it easier for the reader to glance over the many areas of concern (in the contents block), and go quickly to their area of interest, whilst still remaining aware of the other topics presented. They will also help editors to put their information in the correct section, thus minimizing problems with redundant information and making the whole article easier to read. (Right now, some of it kind of jumps around.) I am also open to other solutions to the problems that a long article presents. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 23:14, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Oh, i see the problem too. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:15, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
== HSMOM ==

A lot of the stuff under the "Islam" section heading has nothing to do with Islam, but Schlafly won't let anyone put it in a reasonable order. Good luck with that. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:07, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:Told you. He won't listen.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:09, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::There should be a way to solve this. You can force the TOC to not show up and then manually add it some where else. I can't remember how to do it off the top of my head, but I'll see if I can poke around and remember how. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 12:43, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Ok, as dirty as I feel for putting "his muslim faith" higher up than his birth, hopefully this should solve the problem. Now the Muslim insights are on the first page, and they are sectioned off for better flow. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 12:54, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

I fail to see how Obama's pronunciation of "Pakistan" has anything to do with his religion. And I don't care that he didn't change his middle name. Maybe he does have muslim beliefs, but these things would have nothing to do with it. There has to be fewer illogical statements here to be respectable; I thought the point of this page was to get away from the bias of wikipedia. Don't make conservatives look bad. Logic, facts, and history are on the conservative's side - use them.

==Professor?==

In attempting to organize the article yesterday, I came across two different sections on Obama's job at the University of Chicago. They seem to contradict each other. Here they are:
* Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago; in fact, he held the position of "Senior Lecturer."<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> <ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> For most of his time there he was regarded by the university as a professor.<ref>Obama was on the faculty at the University of Chicago from 1992 to 2004.[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>
*He was "Senior Lecturer in the Law", which is not a professor-level position, at the [[University of Chicago]] Law School as of 2004<ref>http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml</ref> and is no longer active at the school.<ref>http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama</ref>
<references/>
To sort this out, I looked at the references provided. Here's what they said:
* ''"I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution," Obama told an audience at a campaign fundraiser. ... Responding to Obama's comments, Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, said, "Senator Obama needs to understand that at this level words matter and he will be scrutinized." Ronayne pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. The University of Chicago lists him as a senior lecturer on leave.''<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref> So in this reference, an AP story in the San Francisco Chronicle, we have evidence that Obama has indeed called himself a law professor, and a quote from an RNC spokesman saying he was not.
* This reference <ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> is to a chat board. It mostly lists several references, including the article above and the University of Chicago's ''Statement Regarding Barack Obama''.
* The next two references are repeats of the first two.
* The next is the University of Chicago's ''Statement Regarding Barack Obama''.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> It states: ''The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer." From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.'' It seems that he was an adjunct from '92 to '96, but after that, as a Senior Lecturer, he was considered a professor.
* The next reference is a news article on UChicago's site from '04. It uses the title of Senior Lecturer to describe Obama, which confirms that he was indeed at that time a Senior Lecturer. <ref>[http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml]</ref>
<references/>
All of the references seem to agree that Obama was a Senior Lecturer, and that he was not full-time. The RNC spokesman said that Obama was "only a Senior Lecturer and not a full professor". UofC said "Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track". I think we should sum all this up by including something along the lines of the following:
*Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago.<ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref> He held the position of Lecturer, an adjunct position, from 1992 to 1996.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> He held the position of Senior Lecturer from 1996 until his election to the senate in 2004.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, has pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. <ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref>The University states that Senior Lecturers are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure track.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>
<references/>
--[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 15:36, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

== Great-uncle ==

Please could someone explain why it matters that Obama's great-uncle liberated Buchenwald rather than Auschwitz? [Stuff not about B.O. deleted] Really, fellow CP people, sometimes you have to stop nit-picking and get a life. Surely there are political issues you can attack the man on? Why are you fussing about precisely which Nazi concentration camp his great-uncle helped to liberate. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 18:25, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

::It not that he was wrong about his uncle, its that he used it as a politics tool. Like how he says about 57 states. He doesnt think or research about what he says. Do we want a president that makes that many slips? [[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

::: Well, I'd say he isn't the first American politician (or British one, come to that) not to be 100% careful about what he says on every single occasion. How about your ''current'' President?! [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 18:33, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

:::: The problem is one of honesty, not harmless slips. The gaffes reveal a real Obama that is being denied by himself and his supporters. Obama's gaffes are analogous to a racist gaffe, which of course no liberal would ignore if uttered by an opponent.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:36, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

::::: My head is spinning... Thanks, anyway, for not putting that particularly unpleasant slur back on your page about B.O. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 16:17, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

Ironic that a Republican would talk about Presidents and candidates making slips: THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS...AND HUMANS ARE FALLIBLE. This is a Christian Conservative website, right? It would seem that exposing one's fallibilities and imperfections is tantamount to honoring God; the only being that can be perfect. At any rate, we all derive our understanding of how people and politicians should be in public from TV and various other forms of media...that is the root of our problem. If you've ever seen the show Boston Legal, you know exactly what I'm talking about. James Spader delivers perfect, articulate closings that highlight his opponent's downfalls whilst bolstering his own correctness. I bet even Andy Schlafly, with all due respect, stuttered over a closing here and there just the same as Barack Obama says 58 when he meant the 48 contiguous states. I seem to recall we got more gaffes than we could handle over the course of the last eight years due to the inarticulate nature of one "W". Of course, various CP administrators will sweep it under the rug and say these gaffes were taken out of context by the evil liberals who hate God and report to Lord Zargax on Planet Fallujah 9 without even considering the possibility that perhaps they take things out of context, as well.

Furthermore, Andy, I must contest your notion that all Bush "gaffes" were harmless slips. While said statement accomplishes what you're going for--a good/harmless versus evil/harmful dichotomy set up between Bush and Obama--it is anachronistic. As governor of Texas, Bush clearly stated that he was against imposing America's ideologies and political structure upon other countries, yet as a President, he incited a war that was defined in the most grey manner possible (War on Terror) in which we sought an enemy that existed in a place nobody could prove he was hiding out. Once that didn't pan out and the Bush administration realized their gaffe, the very same war underwent a little cosmetic surgery in the form of name change and became "Operation: Iraqi Freedom" or some such drivel.

This brings me to how this website stands on the premise of truth. The problem with truth is that it is not a collective entity--the truth means many things for different people. Abortion is viewed as wrong by some and right by others just the same as a 70 degree day is considered hot by a Vermonter and cold by a Floridian. You can't impose the same truth on everybody because one man's truth is another man's lie. [[User:Acwellman|Acwellman]] 12:21, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

==Birth certificate edit==
The word "alleged" will stay for now, and here's why: the reference used for the certificate links to a pic of what is claimed to be Obama's, which is not the original. What is there is what could be called a "certified official copy" from the Department of Vital Statistics in Hawaii, which means that someone went to the filed originals and started typing on the copy sheet what he/she saw. Since there is a little war brewing over whether or not Obama was actualy born there, I think it's reasonable to ask for A) a copy of what a Hawaiian birth certificate looked like in 1960; and B) a Xerox copy of Obama's birth certificate as it appears in the files, and NOT as the certified copy that we are seeing now. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:04, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to revert my stance on it. Certain federal laws state that if a person is born to an American citizen in another country, that baby is an American citizen as well (there is such a document as a State Department birth certificate). Unless it is proven that the Hawaiian birth certificate is a fake, I think this website should just say that he was born there and leave it at that. It's just not much of an issue when there are more serious ones to concentrate on (Bill Ayers, ACORN, his Marxism, etc). [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 14:11, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

== sex ed for kindergartners? ==

Why do I keep hearing about Obama wanting sex ed for kindergartners? It is appalling to think that the next president of the united states might actually teach sex education to 5 year old's.

Answer: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

== Disgusted Conservative ==

I've voted Republican in every election since 1960, but I'm absolutely disgusted by this page.

What happened to the dignity of our party under Goldwater and Reagan? This "encyclopedia" page is just one long rant.

Are there any real conservatives out there willing to present objective, factual criticism of Obama? God knows there are enough valid arguments to make. Why are we channeling Michael Savage rather than William Buckley? Currently this page makes me cry for my party.

:Sounds like disgusted conservative is voting for BO. I happen to think it is an accurate account of a man that is dishonest. Where will you get the real picture about about if not here? Are you disgusted by Wikipedias article? How about the coverage on MSNBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, PBS, LATimes, WaPo, NYT, Google, The Guardian. Why not be mad and except that the majority of America is being fooled? Why not be mad at someone as disgusting as BO, actually has a real chance to take the Presidency and doesn't deserve it IN THE LEAST? Reagan is rolling over in his grave and so all the Founders.--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 09:54, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Voting Republican again this year. I know you're mad about what's going on, but it shows throughout the page. An encyclopedia can't be written from an angry point of view. Let me be specific:

1) "Obama and Elitism" plus "Obama and Islam" are not valid main introductory sections. Start with his early life.

2) His birth certificate gets its own section but his healthcare and tax plans don't? Focus on what's really important.

3) The "Insights" section is just a list of criticisms and belongs under a "Criticism" section. Categorize corectly.

4) Off-topic side-swipes: "He became a member of the Harvard Law Review, which uses racial quotas, in 1989". Why is "which uses racial quotas" in there? If it was a reason that he was chosen, say that. If it wasn't leave it out.

5) Unsubstantiated claims: "Obama's campaign has been financed largely by leftist donors opposed to the war and to the American military in general." Citation definitely needed.

You have several good sections in here: "Senate career", "Foreign policy experience", "Published criticism", "Religious affiliations". These are high-quality and reflect well on Conservapedia. The others do not.

See the reply from hsmom below as the kind of constructive, factual accuracy this page needs.

::This sounds like you're standard liberal bellyaching. The fact is that no real conservative Christian can vote for this man.

:::??!?! Trying to hold this article to some kind of standard is bellyaching? Would you like to address any of my points?

::::Your points is liberal talking points. The fact is that Barack Hussein Obama wants to talk with Iran without predeterminations, flip flops, and is close friends to an unrepentive TERRORIST. What more can you know?
:::::Trying to shift the focus on an ''encyclopedia page'' about a presidential candidate from hypothetical statements (his possible Islamic faith) and trivial matters (his birth certificate), to his actual stance on the issues is liberal bellyaching? If anything, we should be casting aside these trivial circumstances as beneath us and take the time to dissect each of his stances on the actual issues. That's what a real, dignified Conservative would do. Relying on ridiculous tactics such as these is asinine and cowardly. --[[User:FrankincenseMonster|FrankincenseMonster]] 16:21, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Disgusted Conservative, sadly you are only wasting your time.

==Nation of Islam==
''Obama's pastor of twenty-years, Rev. Wright, was originally a member with the Nation of Islam (likely always has been, see [[taqiyya]])'' Let's be careful not to confuse the Nation of Islam with the traditional Muslim faith - they are two quite different things. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 10:10, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

: What differences do you find so compelling?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:15, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

::I don't know that I'd use the word "compelling"; I don't know a whole lot about either faith. I do know that they're quite different. The Nation of Islam was started in Detroit in the 1930's as something of a black empowerment/separatist movement - it's a very race-based group, from what I understand, and (in what I would consider a cult-like way) based largely on the teachings of two or three men, who are considered more-or-less prophets. It's been portrayed in the media as very racist and anti-Semitic, though I don't know enough about it to know how accurate that is. It's a uniquely American faith. Traditional Islam is quite a different thing - it's been around for thousands of years. Malcolm X, for example, became a member of NOI in prison, then, due to disillusionment brought on by NOI leader/prophet Elijah Mohamed's adultery, converted to traditional Islam. I have assumed that when you say that you believe that Barak Obama is a Muslim, you are referring to traditional Islam, right? --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 09:37, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::: Perhaps you think Nation of Islam is a denomination of Islam that has slightly different motivations from other denominations, but it's still Islam. Are you saying that NOI adherents do not pray and submit to Allah? I'm sure they do.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:52, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::::''Perhaps you think Nation of Islam is a denomination of Islam that has slightly different motivations from other denominations, but it's still Islam.'' No, I wouldn't put it that way. I wouldn't consider NOI to be Islam. As I understand it, I think they are two fundamentally different faiths, though NOI has some trappings borrowed from traditional Islam, as well as some borrowed from Christianity. NOI believes, among other things, "that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of the Muslims."[http://www.noi.org/muslim_program.htm] As I understand it, when NOI members pray to Allah, they mean (at least in part) W. Fard Muhammad (the founder of NOI). Wheras of course traditional Muslims don't include anything about W. Fard Muhammad in their beliefs, nor do they recognize NOI as a Muslim denomination. (Christians don't believe W. Fard Muhammad is the Messiah either, obviously.) NOI is a uniquely American black separatist movement. I believe it's quite a different faith from traditional Islam. Maybe I was wrong about assuming you think Barak Obama is a traditional Muslim? Do you think Barak Obama is a member of the NOI? That would lead to quite different concerns; as I understand it, the NOI wants, among other things, quite substantial reparations for slavery. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 10:40, 20 October 2008 (EDT)
:::::The Nation of Islam's relationship to Christianity is similar to the relationship of Christianity to Judaism. They use the same texts (to some extent), and have practices that are shared with and developed out of the other - but such distortions take place that one is clearly no longer the other. It's not even about "not being mainstream", it's about that place and time when one religion truly ceases to be it's parent religion. You would be fully inaccurate to call a christian merely a "Jesus loving Jew". Christianity became its own religion in the year 30 (give or take) when our Lord died and rose for us. For the Nation of Islam, with the Prophet Elijah claiming to be the reincarnation of Mohammad, they cease to be merely "Muslim" and become their own religion.--[[User:JeanJacques|JeanJacques]] 11:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

==57 Islamic states==

I attempted to make this article better by noting, as several other Conservapedia writers have, that "57 states" could be a reference to Heinz ketchup or simple a misstatement (Obama had visited 47 states), as well as the fact that there were not 57 Islamic states when Obama attended an Indonesian school. It was reverted. Why? Is this an encyclopedia, or a liberal hate blog? [[User:Egen|Egen]] 10:42, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

: Your edit was baseless, and probably politically motivated. The entry is factual and will remain that way. Obama has likely remained a Muslim long after attending grade school. Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:52, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: On the subject, I think someone should add the following line to your page: "The odds against Aschlafly's claim to be named 'Andrew Schlafly' being truthful are less than 1 billion to one, as fewer than 6 people in the world are named Andrew Schlafly." Don't put malarkey like this on a serious encyclopedia page and defend it as being "factual". I remind you of Conservapedia Commandments 1, 2, and 5. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 11:04, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: In any case, I fail to see how it is "baseless" to note, as other Conservapedia writers have, that "57 states" cannot possibly be a reference to "57 Islamic states" and probably has a more benign origin. It does not to any good to assert that anyone who disagrees with you probably does so because they are "politically motivated" (read: liberal) when many conservatives have expressed disdain for this point. I doubt that the majority of Conservapedia editors would disagree with my edit. This encyclopedia is not a personal blog for you or for anyone else. Therefore, I am reinserting the edit. If anyone can provide proof that Obama was referring to the "57 Islamic states" which did not exist when he was growing up '''and''' provide proof that that is what he was referring to, I'll retract this. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 12:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

::: Egen - I entirely agree with you. A lot of people here think this is a redstate comments thread rather than, as it says in the top left corner, "the trustworthy encyclopedia". Snopes on this one: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp

==Biased==
Isn't this site supposed to be unbaised?-[[User:Red4tribe|Red4tribe]] 16:46, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Welcome to Conservapedia[[User:Pluto|Pluto]] 18:19, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== "born, allegedly, in Honolulu" ==

there's no doubt he was ''born''. that should read "allegedly born in Honolulu"

God bless. [[User:JohnBarma|JohnBarma]] 13:30, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

:As the previous poster said, "(born, allegedly, in Honolulu,<ref>MSM Ignores Democrat Lawsuit Against Obama[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/08/22/msm-ignores-democrat-lawsuit-against-obama]</ref><ref>[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Large, high-resolution picture of his birth certificate]</ref> August 4, 1961)", implies that he may not have been born, which I think is not what is intended. "Allegedly born in Honolulu" has the same problem. Putting aside whether or not the "allegedly" is silly (and frankly I think the factcheck.org folks debunked this one), if you want to convey the idea that he was born, but may have been born somewhere other than Hawaii, then it should read "(born, allegedly in Honolulu,<ref>MSM Ignores Democrat Lawsuit Against Obama[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/08/22/msm-ignores-democrat-lawsuit-against-obama]</ref><ref>[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Large, high-resolution picture of his birth certificate]</ref> August 4, 1961)". Comma placement matters. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 20:58, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Correct. Factcheck did take this one apart: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

"Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A."

Snope also: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
::''Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday'' What foolishness! As if the ability to run for President is the sole benefit to be derived from US citizenship! That his grandparents planted the announcement is entirely credible. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 14:30, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:What we need to see to settle this controversy is the actual birth certificate; not a copy of it, and not someone's written opinion. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 13:47, 17 October 2008 (EDT)

== Favorite black leader ==

I've just finished reading Dreams from My Father. I don't recommend it. But one thing I missed was a reference to Malcolm X being Obama's "favorite black leader". He speaks highly of Malcolm X's autobiography, but doesn't like the "religious baggage" that the guy "discarded in later life". Is the reference here correct? [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 17:10, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

: Search Google on {"Malcolm X" Obama favorite} and you'll find numerous credible confirmations of the statement about Malcolm X being Obama's favorite black leader. The entry need not be limited to the silly Dreams book.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:03, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

::Not really seeing it. Various claims Obama loves Malcolm X's autobiography (which, subject to the point above, seems correct), but the claims that he is Obama's "favorite black leader" all cite no reference, or cite Dreams - I think incorrectly. Is there a source for Obama having said or written this? If not, it should go. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 18:12, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I agree that it should be sourced, preferably with a quote from his book or one of his speeches, otherwise it could be mistaken for an untrue rumor. If he qualified the statement with something about X's religion, as Marcdaniels noted above, that should be included in the quote. I looked for a credible source, but couldn't find one. I have added a fact tag, which can be removed when a suitable citation is found. (Let's not forget that Malcolm X was involved with the Nation of Islam, which is quite a different thing than traditional Islam. He rejected the Nation of Islam later in life.)--[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 21:13, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: Examples supporting the statement are easy to find. I just added one. I don't think anyone seriously doubts the truth of the statement. Feel free to find and add other citations supporting it. The discomfort expressed above seems to be with the fact itself.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:54, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

::::: Your source goes back to the book, which I'd thought we'd both agreed wasn't on point. It's entirely plausible that Obama might regard Malcolm X as his favorite black leader, and that would discomfort me in the slightest, but I'm having real difficulty finding any evidence that he has said or written this. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 07:40, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::: No, you've misread me now. I did not agree that book wasn't on point. I did say there is further evidence beyond the book, which is easy to find on the internet.

:::::: The quote from the book is convincing enough. If you won't accept it, then I doubt you would accept anything now.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 08:20, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::: I am now a little confused, and I'm not sure why you are getting personal. You suggested there were additional sources for the claim on the internet, other than those referring to the book, but I cannot find one. I may be missing something obvious - would be helpful if you could provide a link. The book shows Malcolm X's autobiography to have been Obama's favourite autobiography, and it would be accurate to say that, but anything further seems supposition rather than fact. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 11:35, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

== "if elected, Obama will become the first black, and possibly Muslim, President of the United States." ==

What's the problem with this sentence in place of the one currently there? For starters, it isn't proven that he's Muslim, but it ''is'' proven that he's black, so certainly it should be mentioned over the hypothetical. --[[User:FrankincenseMonster|FrankincenseMonster]] 21:25, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

: The racial composition of all the past presidents is not completely known, so I doubt it's appropriate to insist that Obama would be the '''first''' black President. Also, the racial composition of a man is not as important as his beliefs. It is known that none of the prior presidents were Muslim.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:54, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
::Well said, Aschlafly. It is the content of a person's character that should determine how we "judge" them. Although, who are we to judge? I suspect, however, looking at the photos, that Senator Obama would at least be the first President (if elected) with a clear [[African American]] heritage. Whether a few others may have had a lineage leading back to Africa in their family tree is another, albeit interesting, question. [[User:Human|Human]] 23:16, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

::That's an interesting argument. If we know so little about the former presidents that we cannot say whether any of them met society's contemporaneous definition of Black - the one-drop rule, for example - then how can we say than none of them were Muslim? If they could keep their African ancestry secret, why not their true religion? Is there evidence of political opponents accusing a candidate of being of mixed-blood ancestry?--[[User:Brossa|Brossa]] 23:21, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

::: When people vote, they are called to judge. So the liberal canard of "judge not" is a useless argument here. What will voters judge on? More important than race is the views and beliefs of the candidates.

::: As to whether past presidents were Muslims, simply look at what they did and said ... including before they became politically ambitious.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:33, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
::::Of course we "judge", or at least "decide" when we vote. However, when did "judge not... [lest ye be judged]" become a "liberal canard"? I thought it was a warning in the Bible not to overstep our bounds? Voting, of course, does not overstep them - we pencil in a space, or pull a lever. That is not "judgment", it is an expression of personal opinion or preference or ideas. Moving beyond that simple step, however, leads us into judgment territory, potentially. When we should be humble and add commentary on ourselves as well as those we judge is an issue of personal ethics - or morality. A good time to sit down with good words and contemplate. [[User:Human|Human]] 01:22, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Main Picture ==

I would like someone to please explain to me how this is unbais? At least with the article you can try to make something up saying how its unbais but the main picture is trying to show very obviouisly that Obama is unpatriotic... If you look at McCains page or Palins the picture of professionally done. Please someone give me a reasonable answer [[User talk:Horriblesite]]

: Funny you should comment. Is it Conservapedia making Obama unpatriotic or is it Obama who IS unpatriotic? I will say the latter.--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 21:56, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
::Also, "unbais" and "professionally done" are Liberal canards. --[[User:FrankincenseMonster|FrankincenseMonster]] 21:56, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

== Taqiyya & takeyya ==

Are these the same thing? [[User:LiamG|LiamG]] 15:34, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
:Yes. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 15:52, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

== wife opinions ==

The thing that bothers me about Obama is the comments attributed to his wife. 1. That it was the first time she was proud of america and 2.That black children had no future in america. Both she and her husband are examples of how well a black child can do so its hard to understand why she has that view. [[User:Markr|Markr]] 16:38, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

::See similar comments from John McCain: http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2008/06/mccain-it-can-be-%E2%80%9Ctough%E2%80%9D-to-be-proud-of-usa/ “I’ll admit to you … that it’s tough in some respects,” McCain said when asked by a questioner at a town hall meeting how to be proud of the country. “We have not always done things right and we mismanaged the war in Iraq very badly for nearly four years.”

== Obvious fake photo (hand on heart) ==

I suspect this very obvious fake photo (look at how small the two women are compared to the chairs behind them, check out the flag's edges itself and what exactly is holding it up) was placed here by people hoping to discredit Conservapedia. I understand a popular activity among liberals and vandals is to insert things seeming to support Conservative and Christian values, but that are either extreme or fake, and so undermine the encyclopedia as a whole.--[[User:TruthOfChrist|TruthOfChrist]] 11:11, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
:It isn't fake. Many other photos of this occasion exist. Video, too. The goofy-looking perspective is an artifact of the angle and lens used. --[[User:XavierJ|XavierJ]] 12:29, 17 October 2008 (EDT)
Answer: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp {{unsigned|Littleriverr}}

==birth certificate lawsuit number 2==
In a second lawsuit challenging Barack Obama's "natural born" citizenship, a Washington resident is demanding officials review original or certified birth documents for the Democratic Party presidential candidate.

Steven Marquis of Fall City, Wash., filed suit Oct. 9 in Washington State Superior Court, calling for Secretary of State Sam Reed to determine whether Obama is a citizen before Election Day. Marquis released a statement saying the state has the authority to "prevent the wholesale disenfranchisement of voters" who might have otherwise had the opportunity to choose a qualified candidate should records show Obama is not a natural-born U.S. citizen. [http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78111]

==Errors and dubious claims==

- The first sentence says Obama was born in Hawaii. At first I was under the impression that someone decided to act in a competent manner and remove the baseless innuendo about his place of birth. Alas I was mistaken because later in the article the word 'alleged' is still used. I thought all reasonable people would presume that a document from the State of Hawaii would suffice to prove one's citizenship instead of using the rants of the lunatic fringe.

: A lawsuit has been filed by someone seeking the real birth certificate. Complain to him, and explain why it still apparently has not been produced.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::The state of Hawaii is not just going to let anybody get a copy of Obama's birth certificate, let alone his original. I can't even get my hands on my own original birth certificate and I'll bet neither can you. A certified copy of Obama's birth certificate has been provided for anyone to look at. If this copy is good enough for our government officials that are not part of the lunatic fringe, then why isn't it good enough for Conservapedia? I'd like to think Conservapedia is not aligning itself with the likes of the people filing these nonsense lawsuits.--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

- Obama only attended religious schools until he reached the age of ten (Islamic and Catholic). The rest of his education from Punahou School, Occidental College, Columbia University, and Harvard was nonsectarian. Clearly the vast majority of his education was non-religious. [[http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/]]

: Obama's formative years were spend being indoctrinated in Islam. Less than 1% convert to Christianity after that experience. Enough said.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::I was never under the impression that a person's formative years stopped at the age of ten. According to you, Obama shouldn't be a liberal because he attended conservative religious schools during his alleged formative years, 6 - 10. How is it that he is now a liberal after living another 35+ years and attending an ivy-league college? You are also ignoring his years in a Catholic school during his time in Indonesia. Why? If he spent two of his formative years at a Catholic school, shouldn't he be a Catholic?--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

- Malcom X was not THE leader of the Nation of Islam, he was A leader. There is a distinct difference. [[http://www.finalcall.com/national/savioursday2k/hem_nation.htm]]

: Nitpicking here. I'll change "the" to "a" for you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::Don't do it for me, do it for the reputation of Conservapedia.--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

- Obama was baptized in 1988, the same year he started attending Harvard. If there is a reference stating he was baptized prior to his political ambitions, please post it. [[http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/30/america/30obama.php?page=2]]

: 1988 makes no sense, as no one ever saw any Christian behavior or church attendance by Obama at law school from 1988 to 1991. Post his baptismal certificate. You can't and neither can Obama.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::Why doesn't 1988 make any sense? Was there a problem with my reference? Are you able to provide reputable evidence that Obama's baptism didn't occur in 1988? Just because a person doesn't attend church on a regular basis or hardly at all is not a reason to deny someone's baptism. Elsewhere in this article is criticism directed at Obama's CHRISTIAN pastor of 20 years. Either Obama is a Christian that attended a Christian church for 20 years or he is not. If he is a Muslim, then why all the fuss about his Christian pastor of 20 years?--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

- Just because someone reads a book allegedly 'from a Muslim point-of-view' does not mean they are actually a Muslim. I have read parts of the book and I am not a Muslim.

: It adds to the evidence. If Obama were reading the Bible, then that would detract from the evidence.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::Obama does read his Bible and has encouraged others to do so as well. Would like a reference?--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

- Roosevelt communicated with America's enemies. After the outbreak of WW II, Roosevelt was negotiating with the Japanese. Things didn't go well and the Japanese were embargoed, thus losing most of their import capability including over 90% of their oil supplies. [[http://www.fff.org/freedom/1291c.asp]]

: Your point is lacking here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::In reference to Obama saying we should talk to our enemies, the following claim was made, "Roosevelt spoke with none of the Axis or Japanese leaders and the only communication that was sent to them was unconditional surrender." Roosevelt and members of his administration talked to our enemies, the reference provided by the article was written by a columnist with a distinct lack of historical credibility.--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

- If Obama' likely benefited from special scholarships not available to most students', then which scholarships were they? Could a reference at least be provided?

: You tell us. Obama won't disclose who paid for his education. He claimed he worked his way through school, but that was disproved.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::Why should I tell you? The claim was made in the article without a shred of evidence to back it up. I do happen to know that the Obama's used college loans to pay for much of their schooling and they only just recently paid them off with the proceeds from his books. Since someone writing for Conservapedia is making the incredible claim that Obama was somehow able to acquire loans not available to most others, shouldn't a reference be provided so the claim will withstand scrutiny? --[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

- Any chance a reference could be provided for the claim concerning the flag pin? The way it reads now makes the entry look like partisan whining.

: Be clearer. No one denies Obama avoided wearing a flag pin as he catered to the anti-war crowd.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::The claim, ' Recently, he has begun wearing one again for reasons that are likely political pandering' was made without a reference. Any chance this opinion could be verified so the article doesn't sound like a smear?--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

The general tone of the article makes it look like a partisan smear campaign, not the encyclopedic scholarly work Conservapedia alleges to produce.--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 17:08, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

: I think your conclusion applies more to your own comments.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:21, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::Thanks for your response.--[[User:NormaN|NormaN]] 18:58, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

==Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam==
''Obama has written that the autobiography of Malcolm X, a Nation of Islam leader, inspired him in his youth.'' I think this statement needs to be tweaked a bit. While it's true that Malcolm X was a leader in the Nation of Islam (a radical black separatist group, not to be confused with the traditional Islam faith), by the time he wrote his autobiography (as told to Alex Haley, of Roots fame), he had rejected the Nation of Islam and converted to traditional Islam. If Obama was inspired by the book to take up Malcolm's religion (which is a stretch, IMHO, as lots of people have read this book and not become Muslims), he would most likely have chosen traditional Islam like Malcolm did. I think it's important to make that distinction clear. (Unless this item is intended to suggest that Obama is a member of the Nation of Islam? If so, it should be in a different section, as it's quite a different claim.) FWIW, Malcolm X was assassinated in 1965, four years after Obama's birth. Also, the title of the book is ''The Autobiography of Malcolm X''. So I suggest this item be changed to something like:

* Obama has written that reading ''The Autobiography of Malcolm X'' inspired him in his youth. Malcolm X converted to traditional Islam after leaving the radical Nation of Islam (a black separatist group).
:Sounds considered and precise. Most black muslims are NOT NOI, they are in fact sunni Muslim.--[[User:JeanJacques|JeanJacques]] 20:11, 20 October 2008

== Obamas Grandmother==
Breaking news, Americans still forbidden to speak with Obamas grandmother. Now, we may never. Democrat Barack Obama is canceling nearly all his campaign events Thursday and Friday to fly to Hawaii to visit his suddenly ill 86-year-old grandmother.
Campaign spokesman Robert Gibbs told reporters Monday that Obama's grandmother, Madelyn Payne Dunham, who helped raise him, was released from the hospital late last week. But he says her health has deteriorated to the point where her situation is very serious.
Gibbs said Obama would return to the campaign trail on Saturday, though he was unsure where.
Obama events originally planned for Madison, Wis., and Des Moines, Iowa, on Thursday will be replaced with one in Indianapolis before he makes the long flight to Hawaii. --'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 21:16, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

== Suggesting corrections to 'atom bomb' sentance ==

Hello again,

I think it should not say "atom bombs" because this is slang expression. It should be "atomic bombs" except since 1960s it usually is said "nuclear bombs" and even then there are other weapons from bombs (missles are not bombs, then there are torpedoes and so on) so it should say "nuclear weapons."

Also my memory is fuzzy here but didn't Clinton have ties to other washed up sixties communist terrorists? Like former Black Panther Party people who were re-made into "moderate" democrat politicians.

Finally and this is just style, I do not like the '''Bold text''', it makes look rather alarming, not that we are not alarmed about this, but I think it is best to say the raw facts directly and people will know to be alarmed, instead of trying to shock people with text formatting into coming to their sense. I heard Conservapedia wants to get away from "that other encyclopedia"'s use of sensationism and tabloid style, so, maybe take off the bold. [[User:ELeger|ELeger]] 21:28, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

other than this a very good job in the article, maybe it is too late to change direction your country is going, but at least people will know who had the facts before things all went wrong! [[User:ELeger|ELeger]] 21:30, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

: I appreciate your comments but don't find them compelling. "Atom bombs" is a familiar term; whether Clinton did likewise concerning terrorists is irrelevant; and bolding is obviously helpful for emphasis. Thanks anyway and Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:44, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

::While I plan to stick to the 90-10 ratio here, and this is the first comment I've made, I did want to note that I agree with Eleger about "Atomic Bombs" or "Nuclear Weapons" simply on the basis of the being more accurate terms. My person phrase of choice would be Nuclear arsenal though. Maybe nitpicking, but I think fair. -EternalCritic

:I came to post that too; I also have a problem with "first" part of "If elected, Obama would become the first person having ties to a known terrorist to gain control over America's atom bombs". The most recent Democrat President was bad too. OTOH, something like "second person..." might distract from the point that Obama is a threat.[[User:MikeMike|MikeMike]]

== How low can you go? ==

Is this meant as an "How To" article on character assassination? Though I do find some of the 'links' in the Obama and Islam hilarious, I'd thought that the conservative parts of the US had a shred of dignity left. It appears not to be the case. But keep feeding the lies to your fellow yes-men, the rest of us are quite amused.

:::We are not going low at all, You Who Did Not Leave Your Name. This entry is nothing about the truth about Barack Obama. Unfortunately, liberals like you will not find out until it is too late.--[[User:Saxplayer|Saxplayer]] 21:20, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

::: ''"the rest of us are quite amused."'' I am sure the leftwingers are quite amused of the nonstop Obama media lovefest. I am sure they are also amused at the whole disenfranchisement of voting in a Democracy thanks to ACORN. I am on a conservative website and I can't find a good Obama bio, shucks billybob, I need the Obama I can believe in, let's look at MSNBC... La La La, liberal fantasy land.--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 21:48, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: In response to the first (unsigned) comment above, liberals enjoy deceit. But not everyone is fooled by it, and liberals get very irritable when they see that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:57, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

==Berg Obama lawsuit==
Philip J. Berg announced 10/21 that Obama and the DNC “ADMITTED”, by way of failure to timely respond to Requests for Admissions, all of the numerous specific requests in the Federal lawsuit. Obama is “NOT QUALIFIED” to be President and therefore Obama must immediately withdraw his candidacy for President. [http://obamacrimes.com/]--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 10:26, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
:The "admission" is nothing more than an acknowledgment that there was no response to his suit, so Berg is claiming that this qualifies as an admission that all his allegations are true. Berg's now positioning this as "Obama admits he's not a citizen", but that is legal spin, not reality, and I'd be hesitant to claim it as anything other than the latest round in a lawsuit. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 10:52, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
::There's a legal principle that the silent are understood to consent. Obama's failure to deny Berg's request for admission means that he admits those items under the law. This definitely should be included, and should be reason enough to disqualify him from the election. [[User:QWest|QWest]] 16:03, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

::::The judge in the Berg-Obama case has tossed out the suit [http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvhtmoNEnyP1Bu6Ol4zJsN94mlewD941NCJG0]--[[User:Saxplayer|Saxplayer]] 16:30, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::Just because an activist judge tossed out the suit doesn't mean that the admissions don't count. I'm sure Berg will appeal. [[User:QWest|QWest]] 16:54, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::Is the judge activist? Is there reason to believe he's an Obama partisan? [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 11:38, 26 October 2008 (EDT)

==Birthplace and Grammar Revisited==
''Barack Hussein Obama, II (allegedly born in Honolulu,[1][2] August 4, 1961)'' Putting aside all issues about whether the "where Obama was born" issue is worth mentioning, given that it ''is'' going to be mentioned, let's get it right. The issue (as a previous poster mentioned somewhere above), is not ''whether'' he was born - we all agree on that. The issue is whether he was born ''in Honolulu''. Thus the phrase should read: ''Barack Hussein Obama, II (born, allegedly in Honolulu,[1][2] August 4, 1961)'' --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 21:06, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

==Request addition==
I would like to add this external page and somehow link to this photo Democrat_Obama_during_the_Pledge.jpg [http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Obama_doesnt_put_hand_over_heart_1022.html No hand over heart from Obama during national anthem video]| Original footage ABC, now available through RawStory Media. [[Fair use]] --'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 14:07, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

: Will unlock for you now. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:13, 25 October 2008 (EDT)

Colin Powell

2008-10-19T13:49:18Z

Marcdaniels: update

[[Image:Colin_Powell.jpg|right|200px]]
'''General Colin Luther Powell''', United States Army (Ret.) (born April 5, 1937) was the 65th [[United States]] [[Secretary of State]] (2001-05) under President [[George W. Bush]] and a member of the [[Republican]] Party. He became the highest ranking African American government official in the history of the United States. As a General in the United States Army, Powell also served as National Security Advisor (1987–1989) and as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (1989–1993).

==Military career==
While at City College Powell joined the Reserve Officers' Training Corps and later described it as one of the happiest experiences of his life: finding something he loved and could do well, he had "found himself." After graduating from City College in June 1958, he was granted a commission as an Army Second Lieutenant. Powell was a professional soldier for 35 years, during which time he held a variety of command and staff positions and later served as a General. During his military career Powell received the Purple Heart, Bronze Star and the Soldiers Medal.

==Presidential appointments==
At the age of 49, Powell became President [[Ronald Reagan]]'s National Security Advisor, serving from 1987 to 1989. He retained his Army commission (he was a Lieutenant General at the time of his nomination) while serving as National Security Advisor. After his tenure, Powell was promoted to 4-star General under President [[George H.W. Bush]].

From 1989 to 1993, General Powell served as chairman of the [[Joint Chiefs of Staff]], the highest [[military]] position in the Department of Defense. During this time, he oversaw 28 crises, including the invasion of [[Panama]] in 1989 to remove General [[Manuel Noriega]] from power in and Operation Desert Storm in the 1991 [[Persian Gulf War]]. During these events, Powell earned his nickname, "the reluctant warrior". After the end of Persian Gulf War, Colin Powell outlined his vision for efficient and decisive military action. His plan is now referred to as the [[Powell Doctrine]]. the Doctrine expresses that military action should be used only as a last resort and only if there is a clear risk to national security by the intended target; the force, when used, should be overwhelming and disproportionate to the force used by the enemy; there must be strong support for the campaign by the general public; and there must be a clear exit strategy from the conflict in which the military is engaged.

[[Image:20010912-4-1.jpg|left|thumb|300px|Secretary of State Colin Powell, [[Vice President]] [[Dick Cheney]] and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Hugh Shelton, President George W. Bush talks with the press about the previous day's terrorist attacks during a cabinet meeting Sept. 12, 2001. White House photo by Tina Hager. ]] Later as Secretary of State in the Bush [[administration]], Powell was tremendously popular among the American people. After the [[September 11, 2001 attacks]], Powell's job became of critical importance in managing America's relationships with foreign countries in order to secure a stable coalition in the [[War on Terrorism]]. He spoke out in favor of the 2003 Invasion of [[Iraq]], saying that there was "no doubt in my mind" that Saddam was working to obtain key components to produce nuclear weapons.

==Political views==
Colin Powell is a [[liberal]] or moderate Republican who is [[pro-choice]] regarding [[abortion]], supports affirmative action and "reasonable" gun control. Although Powell is against [[gay]] marriage, he supports and helped crafted the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy in the United States military. He has also been critical of the current policy in Iraq. In 2005, Powell telephoned two Senator's, [[Lincoln Chafee]] of [[Rhode Island]] and [[Chuck Hagel]] of [[Nebraska]] (also liberal Republicans) asking them to oppose the nomination of John R. Bolton as ambassador to the [[United Nations]]. In September 2005, Powell criticized the government's response to [[Hurricane Katrina]]. Powell was mentioned as a potential running mate for [[John McCain]]<ref>http://www.aarpmagazine.org/people/colin_powell.html</ref>, but said he was no longer interested in elective office. On 19 October 2008, he endorsed Barack Obama for President, saying that Obama was a "transformational figure coming into the world stage" [http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/19/colin-powell-endorses-obama/] and expressing disappointment in what he called the "negative tone" of McCain's campaign, as well as in McCain's choice of [[Sarah Palin]] as the Republican vice presidential nominee [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/19/colin-powell-endorses-barack-obama-for-presiden-1/].

==External links==
[http://www.whitehouse.gov/government/powell-bio.html, WhiteHouse.gov biography]

== References ==

<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Powell, Colin}}

[[Category:Republican Party]]

Barack Hussein Obama

2008-10-12T09:37:11Z

Marcdaniels: as per talk page - original claim unsupported by available sources

''"Obama" redirects here. For other uses see [[Obama (disambiguation)]].''

'''Barack Hussein Obama, II''' (born in Honolulu,<ref>MSM Ignores Democrat Lawsuit Against Obama[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/08/22/msm-ignores-democrat-lawsuit-against-obama]</ref><ref>[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Large, high-resolution picture of his birth certificate]</ref> August 4, 1961) is the 2008 nominee of the [[Democratic Party]] for [[President of the United States of America|president]].<ref>[http://www.democrats.org Democratic Party website]</ref> Obama has served as a freshman [[Democratic]] [[Senator]] from [[Illinois]] since 2004. On August 23 he chose [[Senator Joseph Biden]] as his running mate. In 2007, Obama was rated the most [[liberal]] Senator by the National Journal, who had rated [[Senator John Kerry]] the most liberal senator during his presidential run as well.<ref>http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/</ref> If elected, Obama may become the first [[Muslim]] [[President]] of the [[United States]].
[[Image:Democrat Obama during the Pledge.jpg|325px|thumb|right|Obama, on the campaign trail, stands with folded hands while [[Bill Richardson]] and [[Hillary Clinton]] honor the flag by placing their hands over their heart during the [[National Anthem]].]]

Obama almost always reads from prepared text on a [[teleprompter]] and rarely allows tough questions.<ref>After one debate against [[Hillary Clinton]] in Philadelphia, the Obama campaign announced that the questions were too difficult and that Obama would not agree to future debates with her.</ref><ref name="teleprompter">http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/014/728ofzey.asp</ref> Indeed, when unable to read from prepared text he often fails at articulating his positions and is caught tripping over his own feet.<ref>This was first displayed in the Saddleback Forum, and has occurred subsequently also.</ref>

Obama has not disclosed who really wrote his so-called autobiography, "Dreams From My Father," but a comparison of his speaking with that book indicates the unlikelihood that he wrote it. In fact, a computer analysis strongly suggests that Obama's friend, the terrorist Bill Ayers, was the author of key parts of the book.<ref>A computer comparison of Obama's so-called autobiography with that of his friend's, the terrorist Bill Ayers, supports the theory that Ayers actually wrote parts of Obama's book. "In assessing the signature of sample passages from Dreams," the experienced analyst found "a very strong match to all of the Ayers samples" that he processed. [http://www.cashill.com/natl_general/who_wrote_dreams_from.htm]</ref>

==Obama and Islam==

Obama is likely to be Muslim because:

*Obama's background and education are [[Muslim]], and fewer than 1% of Muslims convert to Christianity.<ref>http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina31103.htm. During the third and fourth grades, Obama learned about Islam for two hours each week in religion class, according to the LATimes. [http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nation/bal-te.obama16mar16,0,1634059,print.story?coll=bal_news_nation_promo Campaign downplays his connection during boyhood in Indonesia, Baltimore Sun, March 16, 2007]</ref>
*Obama's middle name remains [[Muslim]], which most Christians would not retain.<ref>See, e.g., [http://islam.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=islam&cdn=religion&tm=4&f=10&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.sudairy.com/arabic/masc.html] After Obama became politically ambitious, he declared himself to be a [[Christian]], yet he never replaced his [[Muslim]] name "Hussein" with a Christian one as most do when they undergo a religious conversion. For example, when Saul became a Christian, he changed his name to "Paul"; when the famous boxer Cassius Clay converted to [[Islam]], he took the Muslim name of [[Muhammad Ali]]. "It is common for those converting to a new religion to change their name on conversion"[http://www.ukdp.co.uk/pages/religiousconversion.php] or adopt a Christian name at [[baptism]].[http://www.answers.com/topic/christian-name]</ref>
*Obama recently referred to his "Muslim faith".<ref>Obama declared, "John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith.[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw]</ref>
*Obama uses the Muslim Pakistani pronunciation for "Pakistan" rather than the common American one.<ref>Obama repeatedly pronounced "Pakistan" as "Pokiston" in the first presidential debate.</ref>
*Obama has written that the autobiography of Malcolm X, the Nation of Islam leader, inspired him in his youth<ref>For example, Obama writes in his own autobiography, "Only Malcolm X's autobiography seemed to offer something different. His repeated acts of self-creation spoke to me. The blunt poetry of his words, his unadorned insistence on respect, promised a new and uncompromising order, martial in its discipline, forged through sheer force of will. ... [E]ven as I imagine myself following Malcolm's call, one line in the book stayed with me. He spoke of a wish he'd once had, the wish that the white blood that ran through him, there by an act of violence, might somehow be expunged."[http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/does_obama_know_america.html]</ref>
*Obama's claims of conversion to Christianity arose after he became politically ambitious, lacking a date of conversion or baptism.<ref>In his book, Obama oddly claims to have been baptized without giving his age or date, and later gave a date that postdates his political ambition (1992).</ref>
*Obama was thoroughly exposed to Christianity as an adult in Chicago prior to attending law school, yet no one at law school saw him display any interest in converting. Obama unabashedly explained how he became “churched” in a 2007 speech: “It’s around that time [while working as an organizer for the Developing Communities Project (DCP) of the Calumet Community Religious Conference (CCRC) in Chicago] that some pastors I was working with came around and asked if I was a member of a church. 'If you’re organizing churches,' they said, 'it might be helpful if you went to a church once in a while.' And I thought, 'I guess that makes sense.'” <ref>[http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=15363 Obama, ACORN, and the churches] SperoNews, October 7, 2008</ref>

Obama downplays his [[Islamic]] background by claiming that his [[Kenya|Kenyan]] [[Muslim]] father was a "confirmed [[atheist]]" before Obama was born, but in fact less than 1% of Kenyans are atheists, agnostics or non-religious.<ref>http://www.adherents.com/Na/Na_14.html</ref> There is apparently no evidence of any Christian activities or local church participation by Obama while he was in Massachusetts from 1988 to 1991. Finally, Obama abruptly left his church in Chicago in 2008 when it became politically controversial, without first finding another church to join.

Obama claimed to have visited 57 states while campaigning for president of the United States, which of course has only 50 states.<ref> [http://www.mediaresearch.org/BozellColumns/newscolumn/2008/col20080528.asp Barack Potatoe Obama?]</ref> He could never explain where the false number of 57 came from, but it has been observed that there are 57 [[Islamic]] states and Obama was educated at an [[Islamic]] grade school while he lived in an [[Islamic]] country.<ref>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/05/12/obamas-freudian-slip-there-are-57-islamic-states/</ref>

__TOC__ 

==Obama and Elitism==

Asked to explain why working-class [[Democrats]] do not support him while campaigning for the [[Pennsylvania]] primary, Obama replied "it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7344532.stm</ref> In response to outrage when his remarks were unexpectedly publicized, Obama replied, I "didn't say it as well as I should have."<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7344532.stm</ref>

To counter the view by many that Obama is an elitist, he began running campaign ads claiming that he "worked his way through college and Harvard Law." This claim was an exaggeration as Obama only held summer jobs while in college and law school<ref>http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_work_claim.html</ref>, and he would have likely benefited from special scholarships not available to most students.

==Insights==

Obama displayed ignorance about American history when he said, "Throughout our history, America's confronted constantly evolving danger, from the oppression of an empire, to the lawlessness of the frontier, '''from the bomb that fell on Pearl Harbor''', to the threat of nuclear annihilation."<ref>http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/07/obama_ignorance_watch_1.asp</ref>

Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago; in fact, he held the position of "Senior Lecturer."<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> <ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> For most of his time there he was regarded by the university as a professor.<ref>Obama was on the faculty at the University of Chicago from 1992 to 2004.[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>

In his 1995 memoir, ''Dreams of my Father'', Obama admitted using illegal drugs, including cocaine and marijuana, which he referred to as "blow" and "pot" respectively, in his high school years and into his college years, before claiming to choose a different path in life.<ref>http://www.nbc5.com/politics/3444371/detail.html</ref><ref>http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/02/26/obamas_senate_foreign_relations_work/</ref>

Obama wore an American flag lapel pin after [[9/11]], but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation.<ref>http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/when_did_obama_stop_wearing_a.html</ref> Presumably it would have hurt him with anti-military campaign donors.<ref>In 2007, at critical moments in his campaign for the nomination, Obama had difficulties securing the support of anti-war activists. [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/04/politics/main2645861.shtml]</ref> Recently, he has begun wearing one again for reasons that are likely political pandering.

In his memoirs, Obama claimed a ''[[Life]]'' magazine article about a man who had become ill after trying to lighten his skin color by chemical means had a major impact on him. In fact, ''Life'' never published any such article.<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/26/AR2007032601583.html</ref><ref>"Then there's the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don't exist, say the magazine's own historians." [http://newsbusters.org/node/11641]</ref>

Obama said that "[t]here was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, [[Alabama]], because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born." In fact, Obama was born in 1961 and the Selma march took place in 1965.<ref>http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/21/barack-obama-gaffe-machine/</ref>

Obama states that he has consistently opposed the [[Iraq War]] since 2002, a claim and position that former President [[Bill Clinton]] criticized as "the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."<ref>http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1131516320080111</ref> In his famous 2002 speech<ref>http://www.barackobama.com/2002/10/02/remarks_of_illinois_state_sen.php</ref> at an anti-war rally, Obama said that he was against "dumb wars" and expressed some reservations about the Iraq War because he disagrees with the ideological agendas of the Bush administration, but he did not explicitly oppose the war. In his 2004 Democrat Convention speech, Obama said that he did not know how he would have voted on the Iraq War.

Obama's campaign "is proud to be actively participating in over 60 local and state wide [[homosexual]] Pride events over the summer."<ref>http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/jcitron/gG5VLs</ref>

===Statements===
Obama has been noted by several independent sources as misquoting historical events and statements by famous persons. A notable example came after Obama's win in the [[North Carolina]] democratic primary. Obama was quoted as saying, "I trust the American people to understand that it is not weakness, but wisdom to talk not just to our friends, but to our enemies as Roosevelt did, and Kennedy did, and Truman did." (Franklin Delano) Roosevelt spoke with none of the [[Axis]] or [[Japanese]] leaders and the the only communication that was sent to them was unconditional surrender. (President) [[Harry Truman]] took over for FDR and continued his unconditional surrender philosophy as well as ending [[World War II]] with an atomic bomb.<ref>http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/obama_needs_to_study_history_b.html</ref>

==Early life and education==
Barack Hussein Obama II was allegedly born in [[Honolulu]], [[Hawaii]] to Barack Sr. and Ann Dunham in 1961. In 1967, he moved with his mother and new stepfather to Jakarta, [[Indonesia]]. He attended a [[Catholic]] elementary school for two years, followed by an Indonesian public school for two years. Media scrutiny in the light of Obama's campaign for President revealed that the Indonesia public school was not a madrassa, teaching Islam. His days off of school in observance of Islamic holidays were spent praying in a Mosque with his stepfather. <ref>[http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/pipes_obama_muslim/2008/10/09/138898.html Obama 'Lying' About Muslim Past, Expert Says] NewsMax, October 9, 2008</ref> After Indonesia, he returned to the United States with his mother where he attended the Punahou School, the leading private preparatory school in [[Hawaii]], until he graduated in 1979.

For college, Obama initially attended Occidental College in Los Angeles, [[California]], before transferring to [[Columbia University]] in New York, [[New York]] and graduating without honors with a Bachelor of Arts degree, majoring in political science. Obama refuses to describe his academic performance at Columbia despite commenting about New York during this period and despite disclosures of the academic record for all other major-party presidential candidates since at least 2000.<ref>http://www.nysun.com/new-york/obamas-years-at-columbia-are-a-mystery/85015/</ref>

After working as a community organizer in New York City and Chicago, Illinois, Obama enrolled at [[Harvard]] Law School. He became a member of the ''Harvard Law Review'', which uses racial quotas, in 1989. He was then elected by popular vote as its first African American president in 1990, a story that was immediately promoted in the [[New York Times]].<ref>http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE2DC1631F935A35751C0A966958260&scp=3&sq=Obama%201990&st=cse</ref> He graduated ''magna cum laude'' with his J.D. in 1991, but did not serve in a clerkship. Federal clerkships are the typical post-graduate position for top law students.

Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago.<ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref> He held the position of Lecturer, an adjunct position, from 1992 to 1996.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> He held the position of Senior Lecturer from 1996 until his election to the senate in 2004.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, has pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. <ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref>The University states that Senior Lecturers are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure track.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>

==Legal career==
Following law school, Obama continued his work as a community organizer in Chicago as the director of Illinois Project Vote. In 1993 he was hired as an associate at the Chicago law firm Miner, Barnhill & Galland, P.C., and began lecturing in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. He remains on the faculty on leave of absence through today. During this time he wrote his first book, ''Dreams from My Father'', detailing his background, his youth, and his education. ''Dreams'' was published in 1995.

==Senate career==
Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate for the first time in 1996 and served there for the next eight years. Following a failed campaign for the House of Representatives, Obama ran for the open Senate seat from Illinois in 2004. Obama delivered the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He won a seat in the [[U.S. Senate]] after [[liberals]] obtained the release of confidential and personally embarrassing divorce records of his opponent, Jack Ryan, forcing him to resign from the race and be replaced by the out-of-state candidate [[Alan Keyes]].

A March 16th, 2005 AP article puts Senator Obama on record to ban oil drilling in the Alaska frontier known as ANWR <ref>http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0316-13.htm</ref>

His 2007 voting record in the U.S. [[Senate]] makes him as its most [[liberal]] member. Among fellow Senate Democrats, he was further left than liberals like [[Ted Kennedy]], [[John Kerry]], [[Dianne Feinstein]], [[Charles Schumer]], [[Russ Feingold]], [[Carl Levin]], [[Joseph Biden]] and [[Harry Reid]].<ref>[http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc]</ref> He has grown steadily more liberal since arriving at the Senate: the same analysis assessed him as 10th most liberal in 2006<ref>[http://www.nationaljournal.com/members/news/2007/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc]</ref> and 16th most liberal in 2005.<ref>[http://www.nationaljournal.com/members/news/2007/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc]</ref>

In late 2006, Obama's second book, ''The Audacity of Hope'', was published. Its title was supplied by the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., a minister who has stated that "racism is how this country was founded and how this country was run .... We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."<ref>http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/14/obama_condemns_pastors_remarks.html</ref> The book contains more of Senator Obama's personal story including the roles of both family and politics. ''Audacity'' spent 30 weeks on the ''New York Times'' Nonfiction Best Sellers list.<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/books/bestseller/0527besthardnonfiction.html?_r=1&oref=slogin New York Times Best Sellers Non Fiction]</ref>

Senator Obama is the chairman of an important subcommittee that has oversight of our efforts in Afghanistan. He has not held a single hearing on Afghanistan even though American forces are risking their lives in a theatre of war. Since joining Foreign Relations, Obama has missed three meetings on a "new strategy" in [[Afghanistan]], a country he only visited in 2008.<ref>[http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-absent-at-afghanistan-hearings-2008-03-01.html</ref> Barack Obama clinched his party's nomination for President after 16 straight months of campaigning.

In June 2008, Obama voted with the Democratic party to kill the sunset provision of the [[Bush]] tax cuts. By letting these tax cuts expire, single mothers with two kids will pay an additional $1,800 annually. Married couples with incomes of $50,000 will pay an additional $2,180 annually. Elderly couples will pay an additional $2,000 annually and a family of four will pay 191% more per year in taxes. Barack Obama often claims to be for taxing the rich their fair share. By voting to eliminate the Bush tax cuts, Obama is taxing most middle class and blue collar families.

Obama and the Democratic-led Congress has voted for the upgraded GI Bill despite the opposition from the President, the Secretary of Defense, the Pentagon, the generals in combat zones and the GOP Presidential nominee. It was crafted to increase veteran benefits. Yet, the strain on our military is great.<ref>[http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/mccain_to_obama_dont_demagogue.php] http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/mccain_to_obama_dont_demagogue.php , McCain To Obama: Don't Demagogue The GI Bill, May 22, 2008</ref> The bill would cost $2.8 to $4 billion per month. Some argue that this bill depletes the US's volunteer military personnel by enticing them to leave service rather than be re-deployed.

As senator, Obama has requested nearly $936 million in earmarks which averages to $500,000. per day over four years, <ref>[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122108935141721343.html?mod=googlenews_wsj Obama Can't Win Against Palin] Wall Street Journal, September 11, 2008</ref> for which the Council for Citizens Against Government Waste has given him a rating of 10% in 2007 (18% lifetime).<ref>[http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/DocServer/2007_Senate_Ratings_Final.pdf?docID=3242 2007 Senate Scorecard]</ref> A score of 100% represents voting against all pork, and 0% represents voting ''for'' all pork. Democrats averaged 5% in 2007, whereas Republicans averaged 60%. <ref>[http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/News2?abbr=CCAGW_&page=NewsArticle&id=11590 CCAGW Releases ''2007 Congressional Ratings'']</ref>

According to a Fox News report on October 5th, Obama has taken more than $126,000. in campaign contribution from [[Fannie Mae]] in a little over three years. This ranks him second, only Chris Dodd has received more campaign contribution dollars from Fannie Mae.

=== Bills co-sponsored ===
Obama's principal legislation was S. 2433, which was an attempt to force the U.S. to increase its foreign aid by hundreds of billions of dollars under the guise of reducing global poverty, which was subsequently blocked by [[conservatives]].<ref>http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200802/POL20080225a.html</ref>

Obama did support and co-sponsor a bill championed by [[Tom Coburn]] and known as the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006, which was signed into law by President [[George W. Bush]] on Sept. 9, 2006. This law created a website that will list the federal government's grants and contracts.<ref> http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060926.html</ref>

Between Jan 13, 2007 and March 13, 2008, Sen. Obama has sponsored 120 mostly [[liberal]] resolutions and bills in the Senate.<ref>http://thomas.loc.gov/</ref> His supporters cite the following less liberal examples, but this list is not representative:{{fact}}

*S.117 : A bill to amend titles 10 and 38, United States Code, to improve benefits and services for members of the Armed Forces, veterans of the Global War on Terrorism, and other veterans, to require reports on the effects of the Global War on Terrorism, and for other purposes.

*S.133 : A bill to promote the national security and stability of the economy of the United States by reducing the dependence of the United States on oil through the use of alternative fuels and new technology, and for other purposes.

*S.453 : A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.

*S.713 : A bill to ensure dignity in care for members of the Armed Forces recovering from injuries.

=== Accomplishments while serving on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee ===

In February 2008, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved Obama's proposal on a new strategy to reduce poverty throughout the world.

Obama worked with Sen. Lugar writing legislation aimed at improving conventional and nuclear non-proliferation efforts. This legislation was signed by [[George W. Bush|President Bush]] in January 2008.

In June 2007 the Senate passed his resolution condemning violence by the [[Zimbabwe]] government. It also passed legislation co-sponsored by Obama that financed a Special Court for Sierra Leone to prosecute former [[Liberia | Liberian]] President [[Charles Taylor]]. <ref> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/02/26/obamas_senate_foreign_relations_work/ </ref>

Barack Obama continued to collect money for a 2010 Senate re-election campaign as late as June 2008, and has filed reports recently indicating that money is still pouring into this fund. This is especially notable because it is an efficient way of sidetracking donations from his Presidential race. The website<obamasenate2010.gov> is now defunct.

==Presidential campaign==
[[Image:obama.jpg|thumb|right|Senator Barack Obama]]
Senator Obama began his candidacy for President of the United States on February 10, 2007, in Springfield, Illinois. His announcement speech largely avoided specific campaign issues and focused on his general political message of hope for the future. It also attempted to strongly invoke the memory of Abraham Lincoln and his "House Divided" speech.<ref>[http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/10/obama.president/index.html "Obama declares he's running for president"] 11 February 2007, www.CNN.com </ref>

Obama's campaign has been financed largely by [[leftist]] donors opposed to the war and to the [[American]] military in general. Obama has encouraged this by refusing to wear the customary flag on his lapel during appearances (asserting that he would prefer his patriotism to be represented through his actions rather than an arbitrary symbol) and by other less-than-patriotic gestures and symbols, such as declining to put his hand over his heart during a patriotic recitation. In an appearance on May 16 where he addressed President Bush's statements that some politicians would prefer appeasing terrorists through negotiations, Senator Obama once again wore the flag pin as he did following 9-11.

By early April 2007, his campaign generated over $25 million from over 100,000 contributors. $23.5 million of that money will be available for the Democratic Primary.<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/05/us/politics/05obama.html Obama Shows His Strength in a Fund-Raising Feat on Par With Clinton], 4 April 2007, Jeff Zeleny and Patrick Healy,'' The New York Times''</ref> After the first Democratic presidential debate in Columbia, South Carolina, Obama's image as an "articulate" spokesman came into question after his failure to state right away that he would retaliate in case of further terrorist strikes against the United States.<ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/27/AR2007042702162.html?hpid=moreheadlines Clinton Campaign Tries to Keep Heat on Obama Over Debate Response], Dan Balz, ''Washington Post'' April 28, 2007.</ref><ref>Chicago Sun-Times,
[http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/362269,CST-NWS-sweet29.article 'I was a little nervous' at debate'], Lynn Sweet,
April 29, 2007,</ref>

Obama claimed to have visited 57 states while campaigning for president of the United States, which of course has only 50 states. From his remarks, he states that he has "one more to go" and stated he couldn't visit Hawaii and Alaska, indicating he meant to say, "forty-seven states".

During a fund raising event in Virginia in May 2007 Obama told donors,
{{Cquote|This week there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died. An entire town destroyed.<ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271357,00.html Transcript: 'Special Report with Brit Hume,' May 9, 2007], retrieved from ''FOX News'', 06/13/07.</ref>}}

In reality, the tornado which touched down in Kansas cost the lives of nine people in the town of Greensburg, and twelve overall in Kansas.

By August it appeared Obama was running to be left off the ticket completely rather than the much ballyhooed Hillary/Obama ticket the [[mainstream media]] was pushing. After a series of ill-advised foreign policy statements, Obama was openly criticized as a lightweight even by liberals, in much the same vein as [[John Edwards]] and [[Dan Quayle]] had been depicted. First, Obama said he would have face-to-face meetings with two of Florida's most feared enemies, [[Fidel Castro]] and [[Hugo Chavez]]. Florida is a key state to any presidential ambitions. Then Obama claimed that he would be willing to invade the sovereign territory of a U.S. ally without prior consultation. Finally, Obama broke the cardinal rule of declaring he would not use nuclear weapons, removing the element of bluff U.S. Presidents had vitally depended upon throughout the [[Cold War]] era. The incidents all added up to a picture of a candidate ill-prepared and ill-advised, lacking in a basic understanding of the office of the presidency, and failing to surround himself with appointees able to make up for his deficiencies. However, Obama won the Iowa Democratic caucuses, pushing [[Hillary Clinton]] into third place, and went on to become the unofficial Democratic nominee.

At a campaign event in Elkhart, Indiana, a seven-year-old girl asked Barack Obama why he wants to be President. He replies,
'''"America is …, uh, is no longer, uh … what it could be, what it once was. And I say to myself, I don’t want that future for my children."''' <ref>[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/tom-blumer/2008/08/09/mostly-mia-obamas-downer-america-delivered-7-year-old Media Mostly MIA on Obama's 'America No Longer What It Once Was' Downer Delivered to 7 Year-Old] Newsbusters.org, August 9, 2008</ref>

Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee on June 3rd after receiving a majority of pledged delegates and superdelegates. His only remaining primary opponent, [[Hillary Clinton]], conceded the race on June 7th. On August 23, Joe Biden was announced as Obama's vice-presidential nominee. Obama became the official Democratic nominee on August 27 at the Democratic National Convention, when Hillary Clinton's motion to end the roll call vote of the states and select Obama by acclamation was passed.

On June 5th, Obama spoke at Briston, Virginia- Healthcare Town Hall forum regarding Political Action Committees and his campaign. "Well, we’re here today because we know that if we’re going to make real progress, this time must be different. Throughout my career, in Illinois and the United States senate, I’ve worked to reduce the power of the special interests by leading the fight for ethics reform. I’ve sent a strong signal in this campaign by refusing the contributions of registered federal lobbyists and PACs. And today, I’m announcing that going forward, the Democratic National Committee will uphold the same standard and won’t take another dime from Washington lobbyists or special interest PACs. They do not fund my campaign. They will not fund our party. And they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I’m President of the United States."

On June 6th, an [[AP]] article <ref>[http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEMOCRATS_MONEY?SITE=KING&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Transcript: 'Democratic Party returns lobbyist, PAC money ,' June 6, 2008]</ref> presented the rules for lobbyist donations to the DNC and for the Presidential nominee. Obama does accept money from lobbyists who do not do business with the federal government and he also accepts money from spouses and family members of lobbyists. And the DNC ban is also not retroactive, which means the DNC will keep lobbyist and PAC contributions it received earlier in the election cycle. Retroactive period being the date Barack Obama started his campaign, February 10, 2007. The DNC possibly the day after the November 2006 Congressional elections until June 5th, 2008. In addition, Barack Obama's ban does not apply to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee nor to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. Unlike [[John McCain]], Barack Obama has not disclosed the lobbyists working in his campaign.

Senator Obama visited U.S. troops in Iraq in 2006<ref>[http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=3794382 Obama visits troops in Iraq]</ref> and in Afghanistan and Kuwait in 2008<ref>[http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=3794382 Obama visits troops and officials in Afghanistan and Kuwait]</ref>

Obama's tax plan calls for increasing taxes on the wealthiest 1% of Americans, while cutting taxes for the middle class. According to the non-partisan [[Tax Policy Center]], most Americans would pay less taxes than under Senator McCain's plan.<ref>[http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/url.cfm?ID=411749 An Updated Analysis of the 2008 Presidential Candidates' Tax Plans: Updated September 12, 2008]</ref> According to another non-partisan group, Americans for Tax Reform, tax-payers would clearly be burdened by an Obama presidency.<ref>[http://www.atr.org/content/html/2008/june/0616-obama_mccaintaxes.html McCain vs. Obama on Taxes] Americans For Tax Reform, June 2008</ref>

===Campaign financing===
Obama is the first presidential candidate to reject public financing. He broke his promise to accept it in the hope that his powerful fund-raising machine would generate far more money than the $84.1 million McCain is getting in public funding. Indeed, on August 14th, the Obama campaign announced it had received donations from 2 million individuals, setting new records. Obama raised $272 million for the primaries and expects to raise $300 million for the general election. However the Republican National Committee has been raising much more than the Democratic National Committee and each candidate had about $100 million in cash on September 1. Each expects to spend about $300 million by November. However, Obama is obliged to devote much of his time to fund raising among supporters rather than campaigning among undecided voters.<ref> see [http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/09/09/was-obama-right-to-opt-out-of-public-financing.aspx Andrew Romano, "Was Obama Right to Opt Out of Public Financing?," ''Newsweek'' (Sept. 9, 2008) online]</ref>
===Secrecy===

The Democratic party feels it necessary to keep all questions about Obama at a safe distance. It is an unprecedented move to keep secrets about a Presidential candidate. The following questions remain sealed from the public. <ref>[http://obamawtf.blogspot.com/2008/08/who-sent-obama-why-has-he-refused-to.html Who sent Obama? Why has he refused to release these basic documents?] ObamaWTF.blogspot.com</ref>

# Certified Copy of original Birth certificate(see certificate controversy below)
# Columbia College records
# Columbia Thesis paper
# Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups
# [[Harvard]] College records
# Illinois State Senate records
# [[Illinois]] State Senate schedule
# [[Law]] practice client list and billing records/summary
# Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mothers
# Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)
# Occidental College records
# Parent's [[Marriage]] Certificate
# Record of baptism
# Selective Service Registration
# Trips schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
# Scholarly articles
# Access to his Grandmother
# List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists

Obama keeps donations secret by exploiting a loophole that allows campaigns to refuse to divulge donations under $200.00. This is useful to the candidate because many of his contributions are from dubious foreign or illegal sources. It is described as the "largest pool of unidentified money that has ever flooded into the U.S. election system, before or after the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reforms of 2002." <ref>http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/Obama_fundraising_illegal/2008/09/29/135718.html</ref>

== Positions and Qualifications ==
Obama is [[pro-abortion]]. Obama said "the first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act".<ref>[http://christiannewswire.com/news/560716251.html]</ref> That bill "would invalidate virtually all state and federal limitations on abortion, and would make partial-birth abortion legal again." <ref>[http://www.lifenews.com/nat3961.html], http://www.lifenews.com/nat3961.html, Pro-Life Voters Must Work Overtime to Stop Pro-Abortion Barack Obama, June 4, 2008</ref>
The leading abortion providers and PAC supporters have wholeheartedly endorsed Barack Obama. The National Abortion Rights Action League [[NARAL]] has given Barack a 100% rating for his efforts in Congress 2005, 2006 and 2007 <ref>http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/statements/obama.html</ref>. EMILY's List, a political action committee that funds female candidates who support abortion rights backs Barack Obama<ref> [http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/emilys_list_bac.html],EMILY's List backs Obama, June 6,2008</ref> The nation's largest abortion business, Planned Parenthood has begun the process necessary to endorse pro-abortion presidential candidate Barack Obama. <ref>[http://www.lifenews.com/nat3971.html], http://www.lifenews.com/nat3971.html, Planned Parenthood Begins Process to Endorse Pro-Abortion Barack Obama, June 10,2008</ref>The board of directors of the pro-abortion group's political operation met on Friday June 6, 2008 and unanimously voted to recommend an endorsement for Obama. Obama has steadfastly advocated support for partial birth abortion as an Illinois legislator. Barack's wife, Michelle Obama, wrote a fundraising letter<ref>[http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2006/10/post_5.php], http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2006/10/post_5.php, February 17,2004</ref> in support of partial birth abortion and against the proposed ban. Barack voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act to give a child who survived an abortion procedure life support healthcare. Obama wanted the life terminated even if he or she survived outside the mother's womb.<ref>[http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000007034.cfm], http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000007034.cfm, Obama Blocked Born Alive Infant Protection Act</ref> With Obama no longer in the state Senate, the Born Alive legislation passed in 2005.

In the context of sex, he quipped about his daughters, <ref>http://michellemalkin.com/2008/03/30/sunday-meditation-obama-and-the-punishment-of-unborn-life/</ref>{{QuoteBox|"If they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."}} Obama makes it clear if his daughters had an unplanned pregnancy, he would support terminating the life of his grandchild and it is undeniable that Michelle Obama agrees with that decision.
[[Image:Features ayers1.jpg|175px|thumb|right|[[Weather Underground]] co-founder Bill Ayers<ref>http://foia.fbi.gov/weather/weath1a.pdf</ref> stomps on the American flag in this 2001 pose for Chicago Magazine.]]

Obama, having been asked about his associations with [[William Ayers]], an unrepentant [[terrorist]],<ref>[http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/August-2001/No-Regrets/]</ref> he explained that the views of his associates are not necessarily his own. Ayers and his wife, [[Bernardine Dohrn]], hosted a fundraiser for Obama in their home in 1995 at the start of Obama's political career. Obama compares his friendship with Ayers whose actions led to the loss of a life to his friendship with pro-life doctor and representative Tom Coburn<ref>[http://www.lifenews.com/nat3894.html]http://www.lifenews.com/nat3894.html, LifeNews.com, April 25,2008</ref>
Obama explained that his friendship with Ayers, shouldn't be construed as implying he endorsed the terrorist-like tactics Ayers used to drive home his political point. Barack Obama brought up the pro-life colleague to make the dubious comparison that he's friends with other people who take "extreme" positions or would use terrorist tactics.
"The fact is, is that I'm also friendly with Tom Coburn, one of the most conservative Republicans in the United States Senate, who during his campaign once said that it might be appropriate to apply the death penalty to those who carried out abortions"

Obama has no military or executive experience and little foreign policy experience.<ref>"Fresh doubts over Barack Obama's foreign policy credentials were expressed on both sides of the Atlantic last night, after it emerged that he had made only one brief official visit to London – and none elsewhere in Western Europe or Latin America. ... Mr. Obama had failed to convene a single policy meeting of the Senate European subcommittee, of which he is chairman."[http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3080794.ece]</ref> Yet he is the favorite of the leftist attack site "MoveOn.org" for the [[Democratic]] nomination for [[President of the United States]] in the [[2008 Presidential Election|2008 election]],<ref>MoveOn.org reportedly favored Obama by 70-30% over Clinton. [http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/moveonorg_obama.html]</ref> campaigning to the left of [[Hillary Clinton]].<ref>For example, Obama promised not to use nuclear weapons against terrorists, a promise Hillary Clinton refused to make. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/02/AR2007080202288.html]</ref>

He has no clear personal achievement that cannot be explained as the likely result of [[affirmative action]]. Some examples border on the absurd: Obama has no background in [[physics]], yet it is claimed that "Obama analyzed and integrated [[Albert Einstein|Einstein]]'s [[theory of relativity]], the [[Heisenberg uncertainty principle]], as well as the concept of curved space as an alternative to [[gravity]], for a Law Review article that Tribe, for whom Obama worked as a research assistant, wrote titled, 'The Curvature of Constitutional Space'." <ref>http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/barack.obama.harvard.2.334825.html</ref> Obama's "research" for Constitutional Law Professor Tribe on this article also raises issues about preferences, as Obama had not yet even completed any law school courses<ref>Obama did not start his second year of law school until September 1989, the earliest he could have taken constitutional law, yet this article must have been written, submitted and accepted prior to that time to be published in the November 1989 issue of the Law Review.</ref> on the [[Constitution]].<ref>The liberal Professor Tribe saw the best law students for several decades, yet insisted that Obama was the "best student I ever had" and the "most exciting research assistant." [http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071114/NEWS01/711140429/1217/NEWS98]</ref>

Throughout his career, Obama repeatedly ducked controversial stands in a transparent attempt to make it easier to be elected to higher office. In example, as a state senator in [[Illinois]], he voted "present" rather than "aye" or "nay" nearly an astounding 130 times.<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html</ref> During that same period, he was planning to run for the [[House of Representatives]], which was unsuccessful, and then for [[U.S. Senate]], which was successful after his opponent Jack Ryan, a millionaire school teacher, was smeared with a court-ordered disclosure of confidential divorce records that both he and his ex-wife wanted to remain sealed. A newspaper that favored Obama took the unusual step of suing to force the confidential divorce information to become public, and a California judge opened the records at a pivotal time in the campaign.<ref>http://www.nbc5.com/politics/2898641/detail.html</ref><ref>http://www.nbc5.com/news/3289561/detail.html</ref><ref>http://www.nbc5.com/politics/3444371/detail.html</ref>

Barack Obama is often praised for his speeches, except when he is not able to read them from a [[teleprompter]]. "Shorn of his Teleprompter, we saw a different Obama. His delivery was halting and unsure. ... The prepared text for his remarks, as released on his website, sounded a lot like a typical Obama speech. ... [But with] no Teleprompter signaling the prepared text, Obama failed to deliver the speech in his characteristically flawless fashion."<ref name="teleprompter" /> The [[New York Times]] noted that "Mr. Obama excels at inspirational speeches read from a teleprompter before television cameras, critics have noted, but many of his other speeches on the campaign trail have failed to electrify."<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/fashion/20speechwriter.html?_r=2&ex=1358485200&en=bb179297e5f61acb&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin</ref> When Obama ridiculed [[Hillary Clinton]] for being like [[Annie Oakley]], it is apparent that he was not writing his own speeches.<ref>"Some Obama adviser probably earned his or her dollars for that cut," the USA Today wrote. [http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/raasch/2008-04-17-2008-04-17-raasch_N.htm]</ref>

Obama often makes reference to his "two decades of experience" in public service work. During most of that time he claims experience, he was either going to school, working for a law firm, writing a book, or organizing community events.

== Political views ==
Obama's political views have been subjected to controversy even before he put himself forward as a presidential candidate. Former House majority leader [[Tom DeLay]] has described Obama's record in the Illinois Senate as that of a [[Communism|“Marxist leftist".]]<ref>[http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_121306/content/stop_the_tape.guest.html|Sexy Rock Star Obama Whines About His Ears], RushLimbaugh.com, December 13 2006</ref> In May 2007, Obama (and Sen. Hillary Clinton) voted against funding the Iraq War for the first time.<ref>[http://uspolitics.about.com/od/legislatio1/a/HR2206.htm HR 2206 - Emergency Appropriations], Kathy Gill, Your Guide to U.S. Politics: Current Events. May 26 2007.</ref><ref>[http://more.gov.mtopgroup.com/2007/05/votes-hr-2206-iraq-supplemental.html Votes - H.R. 2206: Iraq Supplemental], May 28, 2007. Retrieved from Deeper Inside the Mountain, June 4, 2007.</ref>

Obama's views on [[gun control]] is focused on an opinion article in the [[Wall Street Journal]]:<ref>David Kopel, "The Democrats and Gun Control," Wall St.J., Page A19, April 17, 2008 [http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB120839466717921537-lMyQjAxMDI4MDE4NzMxOTc0Wj.html]</ref>

:As a state senate candidate in 1996, Mr. Obama endorsed a complete ban on all handguns in a questionnaire. The Obama campaign has claimed he "never saw or approved the questionnaire," and that an aide filled it out incorrectly. But a few weeks ago, Politico.com found an amended version of the questionnaire. It included material added in Mr. Obama's handwriting.

After [[D.C. v. Heller]], Obama claimed to support Second Amendment rights.

Obama has said, "Doing the Lord's work is a thread that runs through our politics since the very beginning," and "it puts the lie to the notion that [[separation of church and state]] in America means somehow that faith should have no role in public life."<ref>[http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2007/06/17/news/iowa/8db7c1a17d2b51f9862572fd000fc9f4.txt Obama says religion has place in politics], By Todd Dorman, ''Sioux City Journal'', June 18, 2007.</ref>

He believes children should be taught sex education in kindergarten, although in what he refers to as "an age-appropriate manner".<ref>"Barack Obama reaffirmed to [[Planned Parenthood]] this week that he believes elements of sex education should begin in kindergarten." [http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3395856 (ABC News)] July 20, 2007 </ref>

Obama spoke at the May 1, 2006, illegal immigration march in Chicago.<ref>http://nomoreblather.com/barack-obama-and-the-immigration-marches Immigration marches</ref>

::''We are hungry for change!'' S.C. January 26, 2008.

Barack Obama, in his short stint as Senator of Illinois, has made clear his opposition to the [[U.S. Military]] in policy and in rhetoric. Obama has spent much energy to argue that the Iraq War should have never been waged and that we should not be there at all, in any way. In 2002, as an unknown Chicago representative to the state of Illinois, he declared his opposition to "dumb wars". At the time, America was united in the stance against terrorism and the prospects of a rogue enemy with WMD worried the United States. Obama, has said that he does not know whether he would have voted for or against the Iraq War. Since elected to Congress, he voted against the Emergency War Supplemental. Obama did not oppose his party debating the bill long past the timeframe requested. This action directly affects troop deployment in combat zones. Obama has repeatedly called for the return of troops in Iraq. Barack Obama has a no confidence vote for the 'Surge' before the measure was put forth by General Petraeus to Congress. Obama would not denounce MoveOn.org's slander NY Times advertising against the General.

Senator Obama often refers to the office that he seeks, without the proper respect of those that came before him. When talking of the President, he frequently refuses to call him [[George W. Bush|President George Bush]] or even Mr. George Bush. Obama has also disrespectfully called him 'George Bush'. Oddly, when Bill Clinton spoke with Obama on September 11th, 2008 predicting he would win handily, Obama responded, "There you go, you can take it from the president of the United States."<ref>http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/11/campaign.wrap/index.html</ref> It appears Obama will use the term for a former President, but will not do the same for the actual President. Examples of Obama's treatment of our current President:
* "I am happy to have a debate with John McCain and George Bush about foreign policy," Obama said <ref>[http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/16/obama.bush.mccain/], CNN Obama blasts Bush McCain, May 16, 2008</ref>
* "For all his talk about independence, the centerpiece of John McCain's economic plan amounts to a full-throated endorsement of George Bush's policies," <ref>[http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/10/obama_takes_the_offensive_vs_mccain/] Boston Globe Obama takes offensive vs. McCain, June 10, 2008</ref>
* "George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists." <ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7403386.stm], BBC Obama attacks Bush over Iran , May 15, 2008</ref>
* Obama called the U.S. economy a disaster thanks to "John McCain's president, George W. Bush" <ref>[http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/obama_mccain/2008/08/18/122924.html No More Hugs: Obama Tears Into McCain] AP, August 18, 2008</ref> Side note, George W. Bush is also Barack Obama's President.

== Foreign policy experience ==
In his presidential campaign, Obama bragged<ref>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mayhill-fowler/obama-says-no-to-foreign_b_95357.html</ref> that "foreign policy is the area where I am probably most confident" and then cited "having lived in Indonesia for four years, having family that is impoverished in small villages in Africa". He lived in Indonesia from age 6 to 10, and he later discovered that his father had some other kids in Africa.

While campaigning, he has visited several foreign countries. In [[Russia]] and the former Soviet republics, he met with representatives of the International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute to discuss democracy in the former Soviet republics. He also met with Russian military officials and visited several nuclear and biological weapons destruction sites in Russia, [[Ukraine]], and [[Azerbaijan]] with Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Richard Lugar (R-IN). On the same tour, he visited London, UK, and met with [[Tony Blair]], sitting UK Prime Minister.<ref>http://obama.senate.gov/press/050823-obama_to_visit/</ref>

Obama visited South Africa, Kenya, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Chad; he discussed his tour of Robben Island prison, met with U.S. troops, and visited refugee camps of the people fleeing Darfur. He also addressed Africa's growing [[AIDS]] epidemic. <ref>http://obama.senate.gov/podcast/060906-090606_africa_t/</ref>

During a ten-day-long tour of the Middle East, he talked with government leaders in Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, Jordan, and Israel. <ref> http://obama.senate.gov/news/060113-obama_wraps_up/</ref>

==Religious affiliations==

Obama and his wife (reared a Baptist) have been active members since 1988 at the Trinity [[United Church of Christ]]<ref>http://www.tucc.org/about.htm</ref> in Chicago. The church embraces black liberation theology and its emphasis on empowering oppressed groups against establishment forces. This denomination was the first in America to ordain gays, women and blacks as ministers.<ref>[http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/31079.html], http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/31079.html, Obama's church pushes controversial doctrines, March 20, 2008</ref> According to his sister, Obama was baptized at this church the same year.<ref>[http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/30/america/30obama.php?page=2 http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/30/america/30obama.php?page=2]</ref> Obama describes his conversion in ''The Audacity of Hope''. The title of this book is taken from one of Pastor Wright's sermons.
In April 2008, Obama disavowed Pastor Wright's views. In May 2008, Obama left his church. His response blames the media and not the rhetoric on display <ref>[http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/31/obama-resigns-church-membership-in-chicago/], Obama Drops Church Membership in Chicago, may 31, 2008</ref>{{QuoteBox|“It’s not fair to the other members of the church who seek to worship in peace..."}} Wright had been making inflammatory comments and posting his sermons online for sale. These include the statements "G-d damn America" and describing the September 11th attacks, he said "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."<ref>[ http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788 Obama's Pastor: G-d Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11]</ref> In addition, Rev. Wright blamed America saying "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic."

[[Image:Barack Obama Jeremiah Wright.jpg|thumb|Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright.]]

[[Daniel Pipes]] claims that Obama was raised a [[Muslim]] because he attended classes on the Koran while attending a Muslim school.<ref>[http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5286 Was Barack Obama a Muslim</ref> Obama did attend a school administrated by Muslims but [[CNN]] reports that it was a non-religious public school attended by students of many faiths, not a [[madrassa]].<ref>http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/</ref>

{{QuoteBox|In Indonesia, I'd spent 2 years at a Muslim school, 2 years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I'd pretend to close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended. Just a parched old nun and 30 brown children, muttering words. Sometimes the nun would catch me, and her stern look would force my lids back shut. But that didn't change how I felt inside."}}<ref>Dreams from My Father, by Barack Obama, p.142 Aug 1, 1996 </ref>

Obama has described his upbringing as occurring in a non-religious environment.

{{QuoteBox|In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist that she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well. Moreover, as a child I rarely came in contact with those who might offer a substantially different view of faith. My father was almost entirely absent from my childhood, having been divorced from my mother when I was 2 years old; in any event, although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist, thinking religion to be so much superstition.

And yet for all her professed secularism, my mother was in many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I've ever known. She had an unswerving instinct for kindness, charity, and love, and spent much of her life acting on that instinct, sometimes to her detriment. Without the help of religious texts or outside authorities, she worked mightily to instill in me the values that many Americans learn in Sunday school: honesty, empathy, discipline, delayed gratification, and hard work. She raged at poverty and injustice.}}<ref>[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546579-4,00.html My Spiritual Journey] Time Magazine, October 2006</ref>

== Books ==

* ''Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance.'' (B. Obama)
* ''The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream.'' (B. Obama)
* ''Barack Obama in His Own Words.'' (B. Obama and Lisa Rogak)
* ''Change We Can Believe In. Barack Obama's Plan to Renew America's Promise.'' (B. Obama)
* ''The Case Against Barack Obama. The Unlikely Rise and Unexamined Agenda of the Media's Favorite Candidate. '' (David Freddso)
* ''The Obama Nation. Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality.'' (Jerome R. Corsi)
* ''Obama Unmasked. Did Slick Hollywood Handlers Create the Perfect Candidate?'' (Floyd Brown and Lee Trexler)
* ''Obama: The Man Behind The Mask.'' (Andy Martin)
* ''The Audacity of Deceit. Barack Obama's War on American Values.'' (Brad O'Leary)

==Published criticism==
On April 11, 2007, staff writers of ''The Boston Globe'' reported the criticisms of several black commentators regarding Obama's apparent hesitation to join the race to condemn acclaimed radio personality [[Don Imus]],<ref>[http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/11/obamas_silence_on_imus_alarms_some_blacks/ Obama's silence on Imus alarms some blacks], Rick Klein and Joseph Williams, ''The Boston Globe'', April 11, 2007.</ref> who made a racially insensitive remark<ref>[http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNews/idUSN1237895620070412|title=Furor over Imus puts heat on other broadcasters], Daniel Trotta, Reuters, 2007-04-12.</ref> on the air during the April 4 broadcast. Obama did not comment on Imus's remarks until well after prominent civil rights leaders [[Al Sharpton]] and [[Jesse Jackson]] had called Imus to account and after Imus was suspended by MSNBC and CBS Radio. Obama later weighed in on April 10 by saying, "The comments of Don Imus were divisive, hurtful, and offensive to Americans of all backgrounds." 

The ''Globe'' reported that Obama's perceived delay in addressing Don Imus's remarks was described by Melissa Harris Lacewell, a professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University, as "miss[ing] an opportunity to prove himself to blacks and white liberals who would have wanted Obama take the lead in denouncing Imus."<ref>[http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/11/obamas_silence_on_imus_alarms_some_blacks/ Obama's silence on Imus alarms some blacks], Rick Klein and Joseph Williams, ''The Boston Globe'', April 11, 2007.</ref><ref>[http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/04/obama_race_and_the_election.html Obama, Race, and The Election,] ''Real Clear Politics.com''</ref>

In June 2007 the ''Chicago Sun-Times'' reported Obama had actually received nearly three times more campaign cash from indicted slum landlord Tony Rezko<ref>[http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/353829,CST-NWS-rez23.article Barack Obama and his slumlord patron], Tim Novak, Chicago Sun-Times, April 23, 2007.</ref> and his associates than Obama has publicly acknowledged.<ref>[http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/432197,CST-NWS-obama18.article Rezko cash triple what Obama says], Chris Fusco and Tim Novak, ''Chicago Sun-Times'', June 18, 2007.</ref>

Executive vice president Wayne LaPierre of the [[NRA]] accuses Barack Obama of "mouthing pro-Second amendment words and pandering to gun owners" on the campaign trail.<ref>[http://www.gopusa.com/news/2008/may/0514_nra_mccain.shtml], http://www.gopusa.com/news/2008/may/0514_nra_mccain.shtml, NRA chief stresses common ground with McCain, Associated Press, May 14, 2008</ref>

[[McCain]] Aide Says Obama Has Sept. 10 Mind-Set "an extremely dangerous and extremely naive approach toward terrorism" <ref>[http://www.newsmax.com/politics/mccain_obama/2008/06/17/105265.html], AP McCain Aide Says Obama Has Sept. 10 Mind-Set, June 17, 2008</ref>

===Birth Certificate Controversy===
There has been some controversy over the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate and his Constitutional eligibility to hold the office of President.<ref>[http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTgxZmIwNTg0OWVhMWJkODNmZjI4ZjY4Mjg2OWRmNzI= http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTgxZmIwNTg0OWVhMWJkODNmZjI4ZjY4Mjg2OWRmNzI=]</ref> After initially refusing to produce a birth certificate in response to such rumors, the Obama campaign eventually endorsed a document posted on the Daily Kos as
authentic.<ref>[http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/12/11012/6168/320/534616 Obama's Birth Certificate]</ref> The response is split regarding the birth certificate. Some commentators, such as those at the National Review, are satisfied with the document.<ref>[http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk= http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk=]</ref> However, an analyst at the Israel Insider website, has concluded based on a photographic analysis of the document that the birth certificate has been altered and is likely not Obama's true birth certificate.<ref>[http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/12939.htm]</ref>

On August 21st, 2008, Factcheck.org published an article regarding the controversy.<ref>[http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html Born in the U.S.A.]</ref> The site stated, "FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship." In addition, the site posted high-resolution photographs of the birth certificate, which clearly showed the raised seal, stamp of Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka, and certificate number. The birth date corresponds to a birth announcement published in the ''Honolulu Advertiser '' on Sunday, August 13, 1961. <ref>http://texasdarlin.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/obama-was-born-in-hawaii-wrong-can-of-worms/</ref>

A Philadelphia attorney, Phillip Berg, has filed a lawsuit against the DNC and Barack Obama. Berg maintains that Sen. Obama is not a natural born U.S. citizen or that, if he ever was, he lost his citizenship when he was adopted in Indonesia. Berg also cites what he calls "dual loyalties" due to his citizenship and ties with Kenya and Indonesia. Even if Sen. Obama can prove his U.S. citizenship, Berg stated, citing the senator's use of a birth certificate from the state of Hawaii verified as a forgery by three independent document forensic experts, the issue of "multi-citizenship with responsibilities owed to and allegiance to other countries" remains on the table. <ref>[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/08/22/msm-ignores-democrat-lawsuit-against-obama MSM Ignores Democrat Lawsuit Against Obama] Newsbusters.org, August 22, 2008</ref>

Obama website Fight The Smears has confirmed that Obama was once a Kenyan citizen until 1982. Attorney Philips Berg's lawsuit is being challenged by the Obama Campaign. Instead of producing the original birth certificate in court and put the matter to rest, they seek to have the lawsuit dismissed. <ref>[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/09/29/fight-smears-website-admits-obama-was-kenyan-citizen-wheres-msm 'Fight the Smears' Website Admits Obama was Kenyan Citizen: Where's the MSM?] NewsBusters.org, September 29, 2008</ref>

==See also==
*[[Previous Breaking News/Barack Obama|Articles about '''Barack Obama''' from previous "Breaking News"]]
*[[Essay: The Special Interests Candidate]]
*[[The_Honorable_James_David_Manning]]
*[[Black_Liberation_Theology]]
*[[Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_Now_%28ACORN%29]]

==Further reading==
*[[Peter Hitchens|Hitchens, Peter]] [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=511901&in_page_id=1811 ''The Black Kennedy: But does anyone know the real Barack Obama?''] [[Daily Mail]]. Accessed 4 February 2008.

==Sources==

*[http://obama.senate.gov/about/ Official Senate Website]
*[http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/pfd2005/N00009638_2005.pdf Barack Obama Personal Financial Disclosures Summary: 2005], retrieved from opensecrets.org 17 June 2007.
*[http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=O000167 Biographical Directory of the United States Congress]
*[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama/cv.html University of Chicago Law School] Faculty Listing
*[http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=12782369 Barack Obama Biography] from Biography.com
*[http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per New York Times Topics, Barack Obama]
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=zUdjhKbImwE Documentary on Barack Hussein Obama]
*[http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490 Voting Record of Barack Hussein Obama]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Obama, Barrack}}

{{2008 presidential candidates}}

[[Category:United States Senators]]
[[Category:Democratic Party]]
[[Category:Liberals]]
[[Category:Muslims]]

Ariel Sharon

2008-10-11T17:31:43Z

Marcdaniels: removing apparent moral relativism; other minor edits

[[Image:Ariel-sharon.jpg|right|thumb|200px]]
'''Ariel Sharon''' (1928- ) was [[prime minister]] of [[Israel]] from March 2001 until January 2006, when he suffered a debilitating [[stroke]] and was succeeded by [[Ehud Olmert]]. Sharon has been in a [[coma]] since that time. As the leader of the [[Likud]] party, Sharon swept into power after the breakout of the [[Second Intifada]] in 2000. Sharon's firm response to the subsequent wave of [[Palestinian]] terrorism left [[Yassir Arafat]] increasingly isolated until he was confined to a single compound in [[Ramallah]]. When Arafat fell ill in October 2004 he left for [[France]] and died the following month. The Second Intifada died with him.

Sharon then announced he would unilaterally evacuate all the settlements in the [[Gaza Strip]], which he carried out in August 2005. It was an action that split his own Likud party and led to Sharon leading elements of the Likud to form the new centrist [[Kadima]] party with members of the Labour and other parties. Still hugely popular, Sharon was in the early planning stages for a similar finalization of the status of the [[West Bank]] settlements when he suffered the stroke that left him in a coma. He was often said to be the one figure who could form a consensus in the fractured Israeli polity. <ref>http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/weyrich/060106</ref>

==References==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Sharon, Ariel}}

[[category:Prime Ministers of Israel]]

Ray

2008-10-11T17:21:51Z

Marcdaniels: not correct - it is trite math that some infinities are greater than others

A '''ray''' is a portion of a [[line]] which starts at a given [[point]] and continues endlessly in one direction. Intuitively, it can be thought of as "half" a line because it extends [[infinite]]ly in only one direction rather than two, opposite directions as lines do.

[[Category:Geometry]]

Endoplasm

2008-10-11T17:10:11Z

Marcdaniels:

{{stub}}
'''Endoplasm''' is the dense fluid [[cytoplasm]] found in the interior of many [[cell|cells]].<ref>Wile, Dr. Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Biology''. Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc. 1998</ref>

==See also==
*[[Endoplasmic reticulum]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Cellular Biology]]

Electrolysis

2008-10-11T17:09:00Z

Marcdaniels:

'''Electrolysis''' is the process of using [[electricity]] to break a [[molecule]] down into its constituent [[element]]s.<ref>Wile, Jay L. ''Exploring Creation With Physical Science''. Apologia Educational Ministries, Inc. 1999, 2000.</ref> An example is the electrolysis of [[water]] into [[oxygen]] and [[hydrogen]] by an electric current flowing through the water.

Electrolysis is used as a term to describe a method of [[epilation]](hair removal) using electrical current, but the process (confusingly) does not involve electrolysis.

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Chemistry]]

Open circuit

2008-10-11T17:05:19Z

Marcdaniels: a closed circuit is quite different; "divisible" circuit is not a term generally used. Using standard text reference

{{stub}}An '''open circuit''' is a [[circuit]] that does not have a complete connection between the two sides of the battery. As a result, [[electric current]] does not flow. An open circuit is contrasted with a 'closed' circuit, in which current does flow through the connection. <ref>Bird, John, ''Electrical and Electronic Principles and Technology (3rd edition)''. Newnes, 2007</ref>

==References==
<references/>

Michael Moore

2008-10-11T16:56:33Z

Marcdaniels: /* Sicko */

[[Image:Michael-Moore.jpg|right|thumb|200px]]
'''Michael Moore''' (born April 23, 1954) is a [[liberal|left wing]], admitted [[socialist]] filmmaker and [[conspiracy theorist]]. Moore is critical of the US government, as can be seen in his reply to the question "You do not seem to like the U.S., do you?":
{{cquote|I like America to some extent. … Americans are simple and clear. They are charming people. You will understand how good an individual American is. What I am not satisfied with America is that the nation cannot control the government and economy. Only a handful of people have the power to control the country.<ref>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32174</ref>}}

==Manufacturing consent==
He is a hero in [[liberal]] Hollywood and to booksellers who tend to agree with his politics. Moore's films and commentaries are often based on themes of alleged "capitalist" greed. Though a multi-millionaire, Moore frequently appears on television and in photos dressed like blue-collar workers with whom he attempts to identify.

Moore produced a movie portraying President [[George W. Bush]] as part of a massive conspiracy, named ''Fahrenheit 9/11''.

Moore was the producer and host of the television series "The Awful Truth," which was typified by a type of sketch-comedy activism that was often directed against large corporations and government agencies.

Moore's movie "Bowling for Columbine", which used the Columbine school massacre as a starting point, won the Acadamy Award for Best Documentary. Some of his other work includes the anti-corporate film ''Roger and Me'' and the books ''Dude, Where's my Country'', ''Downsize This! Random Threats from an Unarmed American'' and ''Stupid White Men''.

Moore also directed the anti-war music video for "Boom!" by [[System of a Down]], which was released to coincide with the beginning of the [[Iraq war]].

His production company which produces feature documentary-style films is Michael Moore Films.<ref>http://www.michaelmoore.com/</ref>

Michael Moore was the subject of the 2004 documentaries ''Michael Moore Hates America''<ref>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0411646/</ref>, ''Fahrenhype 9/11''<ref>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427228/</ref> and the 2007 documentary ''Manufacturing Dissent''.<ref>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0961117/</ref> He was also the subject of books including ''Michael Moore Is a Big Fat Stupid White Man'' by David T. Hardy and Jason Clarke<ref>http://www.amazon.com/Michael-Moore-Big-Stupid-White/dp/0060779608/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-2466588-5816760?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174624100&sr=1-1</ref> and ''Forgive Us Our Spins: Michael Moore and the Future of the Left'' by Jesse Larner.<ref>http://www.amazon.com/Forgive-Us-Our-Spins-Michael/dp/047179306X/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-2466588-5816760?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174623950&sr=8-1</ref>
[[Image:Moore html.jpg|right|thumb|Michael Moore, ranting|175px]]

== Sicko ==
In his comedy documentary, ''[[Sicko]]'', Michael Moore argued for the revamping of the American health care system, and supported that of [[Canada]], [[United Kingdom|Britain]], [[Cuba]], and [[France]]. Sicko was released in late June 2007. In this documentary, Moore argues for a nationalized health care system, citing the supposed positive effects from the health care systems of the aforementioned countries, and the supposed negative effects stemming from the health care system of the United States. <ref>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/</ref><ref>http://www.michaelmoore.com/sicko/about/synopsis/</ref> Sicko received much criticism for dishonestly ignoring the problems with, in particular, the British national health service <ref>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/minette_marrin/article2753620.ece</ref>

==Criticisms of Sicko==

Kurt Loder of [[MTV|MTV news]] alleged:

<blockquote>"Michael Moore may see himself as working in the tradition of such crusading muckrakers of the last century as Lincoln Steffens, Ida Tarbell and Upton Sinclair — writers whose dedication to exposing corruption and social injustices played a part in sparking much-needed reforms. In his new movie, "Sicko," Moore focuses on the U.S. health-care industry — a juicy target — and he casts a shocking light on some of the people it's failed. 

Unfortunately, Moore is also a con man of a very brazen sort, and never more so than in this film. His cherry-picked facts, manipulative interviews (with lingering close-ups of distraught people breaking down in tears) and blithe assertions (how does he know 18,000* people will die this year because they have no health insurance?) are so stacked that you can feel his whole argument sliding sideways as the picture unspools. The American health-care system is in urgent need of reform, no question. Some 47 million people are uninsured (although many are only temporarily so, being either in-between jobs or young enough not to feel a pressing need to buy health insurance). There are a number of proposals as to what might be done to correct this situation. Moore has no use for any of them, save one. 

As a proud socialist, the director appears to feel that there are few problems in life that can't be solved by government regulation (that would be the same government that's already given us the U.S. Postal Service and the Department of Motor Vehicles). In the case of health care, though, Americans have never been keen on socialized medicine. <ref>http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/articles/1563758/story.jhtml</ref>
</blockquote>

==Earnings==
Michael Moore's films have grossed worldwide in excess of $200,000,000.00. A breakdown for just the [[United States of America]] is below.

{| style="background:white" border="1" class="wikitable"
| colspan="2" style="text-align:center"|Michael Moore's Gross US box office film earnings<ref>[http://www.the-numbers.com/people/directors/MIMOO.php The Numbers]</ref><ref>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/business</ref>
|-
! Film
! U.S. Gross $
|-
| Roger & Me
|style="text-align:right"| $6,706,368
|-
| Canadian Bacon
|style="text-align:right"| $178,104
|-
| The Big One
|style="text-align:right"| $720,074
|-
| Bowling for Columbine
|style="text-align:right"| $21,576,018
|-
| Fahrenheit 9/11
|style="text-align:right"| $119,114,517
|-
| Sicko
|style="text-align:right"| $24,540,079
|-
| '''TOTAL'''
|style="text-align:right"| '''$172,835,160'''
|}

==Treasury investigation==
According to ''Reuters'' in June 2007, Moore is reported to have hidden assets in Canada in reaction to an official investigation. Moore was operating offshore in Cuba allegedly as a "journalistic endeavor." The United States Treasury Department does not confirm or deny the existence of investigations. <ref>[http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSN1119539820070613 Moore fears film seizure after Cuba trip], Michelle Nichols, ''Reuters'', June 12, 2007. </ref>

==Criticism==
'''[[Christopher Hitchens]]''' said of Fahrenheit 9/11, and Moore's work:
{{Cquote|To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would be to promote those terms to the level of respectability. To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental…Fahrenheit 9/11 is a sinister exercise in moral frivolity, crudely disguised as an exercise in seriousness. It is also a spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of 'dissenting' bravery." <ref>[http://slate.com/id/2102723/ The lies of Michael Moore]. By Christopher Hitchens, //Slate'', June 21, 2004.</ref><ref>[http://www.newmediajournal.us/guest/p_ibbetson/06092007.htm Michael Moore: A Criminal Profile], Paul A. Ibbetson, ''New Media Journal, June 9, 2007,</ref>}}

In 2004, Moore warned that if [[George W. Bush|Bush]] was re-elected as President: "...he's going to bring back the draft. He will be forced to. Because, thanks to his crazy war, recruitment is going to be at an all-time low. And many of the troops stuck over there are NOT going to re-enlist. The only way Bush is going to be able to staff the military is to draft you and your friends. Parents, make no mistake about it - Bush's second term will see your sons taken from you and sent to fight wars for the oily rich."<ref>Moore, Michael [http://www.clark04.com/moore/ ''I'll Be Voting For Wesley Clark/Good-Bye Mr. Bush''] 14 January 2004; Clark for President site. Accessed 17 March 2008</ref> Over four years later, the draft had not been reintroduced.

Moore says that corporations are "terrorists" and has said "I don't own a single share of stock" but IRS records showed he owned at least several hundreds of thousand dollars in stocks in Pentagon contractors like Boeing, pharmaceutical companies like Eli Lilly, and even Halliburton, the company most vilified by Moore in ''Fahrenheit 9/11''.

Moore uses a private jet on his book tours and stays at the Ritz Carlton hotel when in [[London]], but conducts press interviews in a cheap hotel nearby to give reporters the impression he is staying there instead. Moore calls himself "an Average Joe from Flint, MI" and says, "Once you’re working class, you’re always working class". The reality is that hypocrite Moore lives a luxury-class lifestyle out of reach of most Flint residents.

Moore says that Americans who live in white neighborhoods are racist, but lives in a town (Central Lake, Michigan) which according to the 2000 Census, had a black population of zero.

==Wikipedia controversy==
[[Image:Moorecagan.JPG|right|thumb|200px|Moore with [[Leslie Cagan]] [[United For Peace and Justice]]]]
Michael Moore's official website [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Attack_sites/Proposed_decision#Michael_Moore] put an image and name of a [[Wikipedia]] editor on its main page with links to edit both Wikipedia's article on ''[[Sicko]]'' and the Wikipedia editor's user page. Wikipedia policy explicitly states,
:"A website that engages in the practice of publishing private information concerning the identities of Wikipedia participants will be regarded as an attack site whose pages should not be linked to from Wikipedia pages '''under any circumstances'''."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/MONGO#Outing_sites_as_attack_sites]
Wikipedia Dispute Resolution policy stated aim is to "primarily investigate interpersonal disputes" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_policy#Scope] and not content disputes. Policy further states,
:"Links to attack sites may be removed by any user...Deliberately linking to an attack site may be grounds for blocking." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/MONGO#Links_to_attack_site]
Wikipedia Conflict of interest policy states, "Adding material that appears to promote the interests or visibility of an article's author, his family members, employer, associates, or his business or personal interests, places the author in a conflict of interest." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:COI#What_is_a_conflict_of_interest.3F] and "Campaigning. Activities regarded by insiders as simply "getting the word out" may appear promotional or propagandistic to the outside world... may have a conflict of interest."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:COI#Examples]

Protection of Wikipedia editors from activities targeting editors for harassment also states,"Any user, including an administrator using administrative powers, may remove or otherwise defeat attempts at harassment of a user. This includes harassment directed at the user themselves."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/MONGO#Combatting_harassment], and finally, "It is unacceptable to harass another user."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/MONGO#Harrassment]

Unequivocally, Michael Moore's official website, michaelmoore.com, engaged in egregious violations of multiple Wikipedia policies warranting blocking of users from Michael Moore's website, and editors linking to it. Further, official Wikipedia policy states all links to Michael Moore’s website from Wikipedia must be removed.

In discussion of the case, harassment and intimidation of a Wikipedia editor was excused, whose expertise on the subject of healthcare was characterized as "an attorney, who is a Fellow at the [[American Enterprise Institute]], a [[conservative]] think tank." [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-October/083230.html] The interpersonal nature of the attack was ignored by Wikipedia's rule making body, in favor of,
:"a bunch of considerations. One is that ''Sicko'', finally, brings to public attention information which has not been generally presented by American media. This is right up our alley... we and whoever runs Moore's website look ridiculous. ..."

Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View (NPOV), laid down by founder [[Jimbo Wales]] allegedly is "absolute and non-negotiable."[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view#_note-0] Wikipedia Arbitration Chairman stated,
:"Obviously we need to make an exception for prominent people whose viewpoint we support."

When asked what he learned from the Michael Moore experience, the Chairman said,
:"If a powerful [[leftwing]] celebrity attacks a [[rightwing]] Wikipedia editor on his website, his supporters on Wikipedia should be able, as a practical matter, to prevent removal of links to his site."

==See also==
*[[Schlockumentary]]
*[[Previous Breaking News/Michael Moore|Articles about '''Michael Moore''' from previous "Breaking News"]]

==References==
<references/>

==External links==
*[http://www.racewire.org/archives/2007/07/moore_attacks_cnn_network_spew.html Moore attacks CNN network, spews anti-South Asian sentiments], ''RaceWire.org'', July 10, 2007.
*[http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-October/082987.html WikiEN-l Harassment sites], Sun Oct 14 19:27:21 UTC 2007.

{{DEFAULTSORT:Moore, Michael}}
[[Category:Conspiracy theorists]]
[[Category:Anti-war Movements]]
[[category:propagandists]]
[[Category:Liberal Activists]]

Talk:Barack Hussein Obama

2008-10-11T15:35:50Z

Marcdaniels:

Archives:
[[/archive1|1]]
[[/archive2|2]]
[[/archive3|3]]

== Meaning of Hussein ==

This has been brought up before, but I just wanted to do some research so we could clear it up: 1st point: According to the Oxford Dictionary of First Names, 2nd Edition (published 2006 by the Oxford University Press; authors Patrick Hanks, Kate Hardcastle, and Flavia Hodges; ISBN 0-19-861060-2) Hussein means this: " '''Husayn''' ♂ Diminutive of ''hasan'' 'good, beautiful, exquisite.' Al-Husayn (''c''.626-680) was the grandson of the Prophet, whose supporters emerged after his death as the Shiite party." Hussein is a variant of Husayn, yet it is unlisted in this dictionary. However, I think that it is apparent that this is simply a modified/altered form of the phonetic equivalent, much like Katherine/Catherine/Kathryn. Hussein/Husayn WAS the grandson of the Prophet, but to say that the name means such is akin to claiming that Mary means "Mother of Jesus." It may be a colloquial usage or have that connotative meaning, but until there is proof of that, then the entry seems to be incorrect. 2nd point: The source currently referenced (http://www.sudairy.com) displays this for the definition of Hussein: 
"'''Husain, Husayn, Hussein''' - Beautiful, doer of good deads[sic]; a descendent[sic] of the Prophet" which implies that the Oxford source is 1) more accurate as it is verifiable and edited by a trustworthy source and capable speller, and 2) "descendent[sic] of the Prophet" is in reference to the original namesake, though it is not clearly marked. If we are to trust sudairy.com as being completely accurate, however, then anyone named Hayyan, Hannad, or Nizar have the denotative travesty of meaning "Old Arabic Name." I think the entry should be changed to reflect this. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 16:52, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: I don't understand. You list one of the meanings as "a descendent[sic] of the Prophet." Are you trying to imply that this is not Mohammed?--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 16:18, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:: I listed the incorrect meaning as "descendent[sic] of the Prophet." This is from the website Suidairy.com, which is not an accurate source of information (my justification is the last paragraph of the first post). The definition I feel is most accurate is the Oxford one, listed above, which lists the definition as "good, beautiful, exquisite." Al-Husayn (a man, not a name) was the descendant of the prophet. For comparison, anyone named Jesus would not be assumed to be the son of God. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 16:25, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

== No longer presumptive ==

He's the real-deal nominee at this point. [[User:Athuroglossos|Athuroglossos]] 13:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:He's presumptive in the sense that Obama is far too inexperienced to be President. [[User:Redstatepride|Redstatepride]] 18:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Education In Jakarta, Indonesia ==

All students in Indonesia, regardless of religion get off for Islamic holy days including Nabi Isa which we know as Christmas. It's disengenuous to make a claim that because he went to a public school and got an Islamic holy day off that there's some nefarious connection. Muslims that attend Catholic school have to attend Mass whether they like it or not.--[[User:EmpressG1973|EmpressG1973]] 17:01, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

I think the point is that Barack Hussein Obama was observing an islamic holy day when he is claiming to be Christian. It just does'nt add up to alot of people and should make Christians think twice about him. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Actually it was his '''school''' that was observing the holiday. When a child attends a school, they can't just choose which days they want to take off. Your argument is ridiculous.-- [[User:rkstiner|rkstiner]]

How is my point incorrect? You can nit-pick it all you want but Obama attended a muslim school and observed muslim holidays. Thats all there is to it. Take your liberal name-calling elsewhere. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Name calling?....where?[[User:Rkstiner|Rkstiner]]

:So a Jew who attends a public school in this country doesn't go to school on Christmas, so he is therefore observing a Christian holiday? Making him, I suppose, a Christian? Doesn't make sense. [[User:MichaelR|MichaelR]] 16:08, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

::You shouldn't have to defend it at all. Barack Hussein Obama is very likely a muslim there is strong evidence to suggest it. Since when is being a muslim such a bad thing? It's not, unless your running for President and try to lie about it. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

== Reversion Explained ==

We don't post a politician's self-serving claptrap. Obama catered to anti-patriotic donors to win the nomination. There's no real dispute about that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:Remember, Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy, and children read this website. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::What's your point? That children don't need to know he flip flopped on wearing a flag pin? [[User:TJason|TJason]] 15:39, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::The point is that children especially should be told the truth. Include the flip-flopping by all means, but also include his explanation for why he did flip-flop. This has more validity then stating "but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation." Adequate to whom? By what criteria is the inadequacy judged? If he had explained it by saying "it's none of your business", or did not offer an explanation, then certainly that would qualify as "without adequate explanation." Remember: Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:56, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::I agree that citing his explanation and then explaining why conservatives find it inadequate would be an improvement. I would make said improvement, but I am currently hard "at work". [[User:TJason|TJason]] 16:09, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

== Affirmative Action President ==

I reverted the removal of "affirmative action president" for now. Corey, can you explain why this is racist? If affirmative action isn't racist, why is describing someone as an "affirmative action president" racist? Is your problem with the description that it is racist? Or that it is untrue? I think these are two separate issues. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 10:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:This speaks to what I think is an enormous problem with affirmative action (no, I'm not a complete supporter), claiming that a minority only got a job because they are a minority. I think that claiming that Barack Obama's political success comes only from his being black is racist demagoguery, or at least rhetoric designed to incite racial tensions. I have no doubt that there are some people who support Obama only because of the color of his skin, just the same as there are those who oppose him only for the same reason. Also, I will not say that there isn't a desire by many people to see somebody other than white male in the White House. But this is not the ''only'' reason most of Obama's supporters have for supporting him, as the term "affirmative action president" suggests. He has political experience and he is a deft politician, which figures greatly in a political campaign. I would implore anybody who considers Obama to have no accomplishments to compare his life to that of our sitting president before 2000. Some time in office, a string of business failures, and questionable service in the Texas Air National Guard. Fortunately for G.W. Bush, his father is Bush 41. Bush supporters discuss his successes as his own doing. Claiming that Obama's are not his own because he is black sounds rather racist to me. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::George W. Bush was governor of Texas; some people consider that to be a political accomplishment. I think you will have to go pretty far back to find a candidate for President whose entire political career was two years as a Senator. In 1988 Dan Quayle was blasted for his lack of experience for a Vice Presidential candidate, and he had already served many more years in the Congress than Barack Obama has. Like it or not Obama was fasttracked and bypassed the usual protocols because of the color of his skin. Whether or not this is appropriate is left to each individual to decide. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 11:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::A governorship is certainly a political accomplishment, one which George W. Bush would probably have been unable to attain were it not for his father's name. There is hardly any information on the George W. Bush entry on this site pertaining to his life before his presidency, the details of which would likely lead many people to conclude that were George H.W. Bush not so well-connected his son would not be president. In contrast, the opening paragraph of Obama's entry uses his race to attack him politically. I find this hard to rationalize. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::There is not usually an understood litmus test for governor. Some people are longterm politicians, others are not. For instance Arnold held only minor political appointments before he became governor of California. But the Presidency has generally required proving yourself in some capacity. Bush was a well respected governor who received high marks. Carter, Clinton, and Reagan had all been governors. Someone running for President who has not successfully governed a state and has only been in Congress for 2 years is very out of the ordinary. Again, note what Quayle was put through and he was only a Vice Presidential candidate. That being said, I am not necessarily supporting the article in the form it has taken. I have not read it in quite some time, but if it is a leadoff then that would seem to be inappropriate. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:47, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::Obama's experience is fair game, and I agree that he has not had as much time in political office as the average candidate. I think that using race as an issue detracts from this fair and logical line of debate. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::I don't think that the term "affirmative action president" suggests that affirmative action is the '''only''' reason Obama is where he is. I think the term is supposed to denote that his being black is a '''major''' force behind his success. Also, I think the term brings to light that, historically, this is a first. No previous nominee has been the beneficiary of affirmative action in the way Obama has. At any rate, ''I'' won't revert the edit if you remove it again, since you've made your case and I am not willing to fight to keep it in. I suspect others might, though. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:37, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Where has he explicitly benefited from affirmative action programs? This is a "heads, I win, tails, you lose" situation. If he doesn't get into Harvard Law or win an election, it's because of lack of merit. If he succeeds, it's because the standards were lowered due to his race. This is an extremely dubious political argument. Attack him on his policies, voting record, character, or fitness to lead: fire as they bear! That's our process, and it's a good process. But these race arguments are petty, desperate, and drag our political discourse down to a despicable level. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::I am pretty sure that Harvard Law Review has an affirmative action policy, but I will have to check. Regardless, I think the term also covers "implicit" affirmative action that has benefited Obama (e.g. a white candidate with his experience would not be taken seriously). [[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:10, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::"Implicit" affirmative action seems to be in the realm of vagueness and speculation. I refer you to Conservapedia Commandment 1: "Everything you post must be true and verifiable." [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::::Like I said, I'm not really willing to fight over this. We are at least in agreement that this is a distraction from the real issue: his actual positions. I reverted the edit because I thought what was said in the edit comment should have been spelled out in the talk page. It has been. Therefore, if you want to remove the reference again, I won't revert it again.[[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::::I have no intention of perpetuating a pointless revert war, either, and I agree that discussion of the real issues suffer because of such statements. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Alleged" birth revert ==

Even the National Review doesn't dispute the [http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk= authenticity of Obama's birth certificate.] Why is Obama's birth information being censored by this website? [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:30, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::There is no censorship here. Removing any mention that there is doubt about the authenticity of his birth certificate is censorship, imho. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:34, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::However, the way rumor is so prominently injected into the article within the first five words is clear weasel-wording. A separate section regarding the issue would be more appropriate than saying that he was "allegedly" born somewhere, and I wouldn't oppose such a section. Seeing as how you usually hear the word "allegedly" on the news while watching a video of a perp walk, it is unnecessarily loaded language. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:42, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::And accusing senior CP members of "weasel-wording" isn't loaded? You should watch your step. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 12:46, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::We Should add "allegedly" to everything just to be fair.

:: We know many [[liberal]]s love [[deceit]], and the birth certificate posted by [[Obama]]'s campaign has obvious defects. Even its number is blotted out for unexplained reasons. There are still unanswered questions about his place and date of birth, and what is on his real certificate, which his campaign has not released. We provide the information about this and let the reader decide.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:12, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Then maybe the thing to do would be to dedicate a separate section to present the issue. It would be much clearer and provide more information than the status quo. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 14:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I have reverted another removal of the word "alleged" since there are still unanswered questions about his birth certificate. Is the consensus that this should be made into a new section? [[User:TJason|TJason]] 17:18, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::I would agree with a section. This entire article could do with a better layout and more sectioning. Our John McCain article is better in this regard - perhaps we could use this as a blueprint? [[User:DefenderofTrue|DefenderofTrue]] 17:38, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) We seem to be in agreement. I'll make a section tomorrow, under the "Published Criticism" section. I would like to add that I love it when people of different viewpoints can meet in the middle. Good night. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 23:44, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:I like the changes you have made. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:37, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

::(edit conflict) Thank you. As discussed, I added a section regarding the birth certificate controversy and removed "alleged" from the intro paragraph. I tried to make it as evenly written as I could. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:40, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

::Also, what is up with the tag at the beginning of the article? I don't know what this is used for, but it doesn't appear to be doing anything except make "span" the first word in the article. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:44, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

:::1. You're right- I scanned the diff and thought he removed the Daily Kos ref. 2. I don't know. I never noticed it before. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:46, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== We have a problem ==

Okay... to start things off I am deathly afraid of this man getting elected and think he would ruin our wonderful nation. I do think that the media is helping him and realize that he is basically "the chosen one." My conservative principles help me make all of those opinions. Heres the thing. This place exists because someone thought that wikipedia was biased and unfair... but honestly... some of this stuff borders on propaganda! For Pete's sake our job as conservatives is too tell the truth and expose things about him. This page is going too far. I'm embarrassed to know that my fellow conservatives wrote this! This page can still be dedicated to exposing the truth about "the chosen one." But we'll be SO much more effective if we do it properly and fairly. If you want to contact me its easier to do so at my wikipedia talk page of the same name. Thank you and lets try to do better please. [[User:Saksjn|Saksjn]] 15:32, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

: A true conservative would be appalled at Wikipedia and not contribute to their cause-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 20:39, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

== Hussein Obama's Birth Certificate Number ==

I copied this from the [[Talk:Main_Page#Obama_Born_In_U.S.A.|Main Page Talk section]] to here because you all might find it of interest. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:32, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

----
:[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Look at this photo], is this Barack Obama's birth certificate? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 23:44, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::It's interesting that they finally give the, so-called authentic, birth certificate number in this supposedly unfaked photo. It is '''151 1961 - 010641'''. The reason I bring this up, and I think the REAL reason this was masked, is because numerological analysis shows something very disturbing. If you add up the three sets of digits thus:<blockquote>151 + 1961 + 010641 = 12753</blockquote>and then add the individual digits of the result thus:<blockquote>1 + 2 + 7 + 5 + 3 = 18</blockquote>the final result, 18, is the product of three sixes (3 x 6 = 18). Three sixes, or [[666]], sort of speaks for itself. I just thought this was interesting. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:22, 23 August 2008 (EDT)
----

I think it's rather obvious that AdmiralNelson doesn't take this site seriously. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 20:51, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Does anyone? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 21:05, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:: I'm giving it a chance. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 21:14, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:::So am I. I new here and was hoping to find stuff that would challenge my beliefs, so far not much luck. [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 21:21, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Can I quote myself? '''I just thought this was interesting.''' For "seriousness" [[Special:Contributions/AdmiralNelson|I stand by my record]]. Feel free to check it out. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:29, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

==Lawsuit==
The guy filing the lawsuit doesn't dispute the fact that he he was born in Honolulu. He is disputing that Obama is a US citizen after he lived in Indonesia. So why does it say allegedly born still? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 19:08, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

: I think he does dispute it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

: ASchlafly is correct - Philip J. Berg is alleging that Barrack Obama forged his birth-certificate because he was not a Natural Born US citizen. [http://obamacrimes.com/ Berg vs Obama] --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 14:50, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dilution ==

Don't dilute the entry by referring to the silly text messaging stunt in the first paragraph.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

:Can I put it down in the Presidential Campaign section instead then? --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 10:49, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Requested change ==
Original text:
{{Cquote|On June 3rd, Barack Obama had received enough pledged delegates and the endorsement of superdelegates to be called the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party by the Democratic National Committee. The nomination became official when Hillary Clinton conceded on June 7th.}}
Requested new text:
{{Cquote|Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee on June 3rd after receiving a majority of pledged delegates and superdelegates. His only remaining primary opponent, [[Hillary Clinton]], conceded the race on June 7th. On August 23, Joe Biden was announced as Obama's vice-presidential nominee. Obama became the official Democratic nominee on August 27 at the Democratic National Convention, when Hillary Clinton's motion to end the roll call vote of the states and select Obama by acclamation was passed.}}
This more accurately describes what happened and updates the section with last week's events. --[[User:Ampersand|Ampersand]] 17:02, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
===Another===
[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=506483&oldid=505653 This link] should be commented out until [[Essay: The Special Interests Candidate| this abysmal essay]] is fixed. [[User talk:MargeryCampbell|Marge]] 17:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

==Pearl Harbor issue==

The entire section regarding his comments about Pearl Harbor has got to go. There is no reason to imply that someone leaving an 's' off the word 'bomb' (''bomb'''s''''' did fall on Pearl Harbor, that much is true, right?) means they ignore or disdain American history. I'm guessing the McCain article makes no immediate mention of his confusion over the borders of Iran, or his lack of knowledge about the situation in Iraq, illustrated by the fact that he mixed up the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. Do either of those things make sense? NO! I'm sure John McCain knows what he's talking about, and I'm sure he's not confused about the issues at hand. Obviously, which course of action he chooses to follow is eternally and rightly up for debate, and if we want to highlight that debate about Obama, then that's fine. But it's ridiculous - nay, ridicule-worthy - to say that Obama leaving out an 's' means he thinks Pearl Harbor was nuked. That's so stupid it turns neurons into Pop Rocks. [[User:OtherSide|OtherSide]] 19:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

No, it should stay, the man's an idiot, clearly. Also - I added the "any educated person would know" bit, which Jareddr just removed. But I'd point out that many of the younger generation ''don't'' know that it wasn't one bomb. I've even spoken to young folk who confuse Pearl Harbor with Hiroshima, and think that the nuclear bomb was dropped on Pearl Harbor! It's remarkable how uneducated some of today's public-school educated youth are. Also, people from foreign countries may not know the context of Obama's gaffe. Perhaps that point might be allowed back in - Jareddr, if you want to re-word it yourself maybe? I think it's kind of important, the stupidity of his point might be missed otherwise. [[User:RobCross|RobCross]] 14:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:Then state something to the effect of, "In actuality, multiple bombs were dropped on Pearl Harbor during the Japanese mission." You didn't say anything about being foreign-educated, only "any educated person..." If you want to place it in context using my above phrasing, go ahead. But the entire section has already been set up to switch verbal miscues for "idiocy" so no need to pile on, as they say.

:Besides, you don't see anything on McCain's pages about him "not knowing" the difference between Sunni and Shiite, referencing Czechoslovakia (a now defunct country), or calling Putin the President of Germany.--[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 14:58, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:OK, I'l do that then Jareddr, thanks for the suggestion. As to the McCain entry, I don't think we need to highlight those issues, they're a distraction. [[User:RobCross|RobCross]] 15:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::True, we don't want to confuse the readers about the candidate storylines. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:11, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::The entry should be removed, since McCain failed to state how many homes he owns is no where to be seen on the McCain article. [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 15:43, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::::Don't be ridiculous, Samuel. Many everyday Americans have trouble remembering how many homes they own. Sometimes they own a home, but it's in someone else's name, or it's just a vacation lodge, or it's a few homes on one piece of property. Ask people on the street how many homes they own, and I guarantee very few will answer! --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::::: McCain isn't running to be a real estate agent for the country.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:52, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::True, but he spoke about real estate business, and it's undeniably a large factor in the economy, which is a current problem. Compare that to Obama and 60 years ago? Oh Please. Thanks for the sarcasm Jared. :P [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 16:39, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::: Obama isn't running to be a history teacher for the country either, though. One could argue that if you're going to enforce a populist message, and cast yourself as an "everyman" and your opponent as "elite", you should be able to answer how many homes you have on command. We're not looking for net value, just a (presumably) single-digit number. I'm not aware of any "everyman" that forgets that number, but I'm sure some "elite" may forget. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 16:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::: Obama can try that next, Samuel: "Who cares about what happened at Pearl Harbor? That was 60 years ago!!!" Good luck to him and his supporters with that absurd approach.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:12, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::What's more absurd is putting words in my mouth (as well as Obama's, apparently?), as if I were trying to say that I didn't care about Pearl Harbor. I said no such thing. I was comparing something that happened over 60 years ago to present time in relevance to gaffe, nothing more and nothing less, in comparison to Obama's article and McCain's. [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 19:29, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::::: Obama's gaffe was about an essential element of American history that defines our country; McCain's was not. We do expect presidents to know important aspects of American history. We really do. We don't care if they can tell you how wealthy they are, or how many houses they own.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:35, 5 September 2008 (EDT)--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:35, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::::::And yet McCain's belief in an Iraq/Pakistan border - and his belief that a country named "Czechoslovakia" still exists - shows how out of touch he may be with the issues that matter NOW.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 19:42, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:I won't compare the semantics of how you measure the impact and importance of a slip-up, but it ''is'' rather telling that the Obama article prominently features such a slip-up while the McCain article apparently doesn't. This doesn't compute. Both of them have had weird moments ("President Putin of Germany", anybody?), and in fact, everybody has slip-ups. Bushisms, anybody? So why do we have to pick on Obama's mistakes alone?
:An encyclopedia needs consistent standards. Entries about similar topics should be comparable. They should be similar in style. They should follow the same intuitive standards.
:Overall, the McCain article looks like a very good example of how such an entry should look like (kudos to those who made it that way), and the Obama article is a prime example of something that would look great on some obvious right-wing propaganda site, but ''not'' in an encyclopedia. The part before the TOC should be condensed and moved to another part of the article. The intro section (the part before the TOC) is supposed to be an ''intro''. It should briefly sum up who he is and what he does, period. Then come biography sections, then his political stuff, then the Presidential campaign. And THERE you should feature the notable events or slip-ups. I'm most definitely no Obama supporter, but when comparing the McCain and Obama articles, you don't have to do a deep analysis to figure out that this site is way more political activism than encyclopedia, and I think that should change. --[[User:DirkB|DirkB]] 20:22, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

Remember when George H. W. Bush got the date wrong for Pearl Harbor by months? And he's a WWII veteran! 'Bomb' was a slip of the tongue, nothing more. [[User:CraigC|CraigC]] 21:14, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

== Citation Needed ==

The first sentence in the second paragraph about Barack Obama reads this:
Obama almost always reads from prepared text on a teleprompter and rarely allows tough questions.

It then gives the citation down at the bottom, which reads this:
After one debate against Hillary Clinton in Philadelphia, the Obama campaign announced that the questions were too difficult and that Obama would not agree to future debates with her.

I don't think that's a real citation. Does a link not need to be provided? Just like anybody can type anything on the main page, anybody can type anything as the citation too. I would suggest either finding legitimate proof to this claim, or just take it down.

== Tone of the article on Obama ==

The whole tone of this article on Barack Obama is appalling. It is poorly written, inaccurate, misleading, insulting and thoroughly vile. I would be ashamed to publish such contemptible stuff.

: That's your first -- and only -- contribution here. Hope you can do better than that!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:17, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

== Tone of the article on Obama ==

I see someone is watching the Obama talk page like a hawk. I stand by my previous remarks and hope to be adding many more in the near future.

: Good for you. And my hope is that you'll have better contributions to this site than what you've done so far.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:25, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I have to say that to a foreigner, this article reads like one-sided drivel. Some of it is so blatantly ridiculous that it gives a negative impression of the people writing it, not Obama. Surely you should be attacking him over his policies rather than a non-existent issue over where he was born or some completely pathetic nonsense about him taking holidays at the same time as other kids in his school. (Amazing but true: Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist children in Britain take holidays at Christmas and Easter; they don't volunteer for extra classes on those days.) This article reads as though you've given up all hope of defeating him on political grounds and are just falling back on rather silly personal remarks. Surely you can do better than that! (Kindly read that as constructive criticism.) [[User:Googly|Googly]] 19:45, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

== I'm noticing a very disturbing pattern... ==

# (cur) (last) 15:45, 8 September 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (59,707 bytes) (Reverted edits by Lodovico (Talk); changed back to last version by Ampersand) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 15:42, 8 September 2008 Lodovico (Talk | contribs) m (59,972 bytes) (Corrected information of misinterpretation) (undo)

Alright, so notice that Lodovico makes an edit, and adds sufficient reasoning for his edit in the apt column. Notice then that Andrew changes it, and doesn't even look to the talk page to provide ANY reasoning.

# (cur) (last) 23:55, 6 September 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (58,039 bytes) (Reverted edits by Chippeterson (Talk); changed back to last version by AliceBG) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 23:52, 6 September 2008 Chippeterson (Talk | contribs) (58,095 bytes) (→Senate career) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 14:19, 6 September 2008 Chippeterson (Talk | contribs) (58,052 bytes) (I don't like Obama anymore then ayone else on Conservapedia, but come on. The two pictures should be reversed) (undo)

Here again we have a very reasonable edit, that it reverted without adequate explanation.

# (cur) (last) 14:36, 25 August 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (57,388 bytes) (Reverted edits by Impm (Talk); changed back to last version by Aschlafly) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 14:35, 25 August 2008 Impm (Talk | contribs) (57,106 bytes) (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html He was born in Hawaii unequivocally.) (undo)

Impm makes what appears to be a reasonable edit, and Andrew changes it again.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Barack_Obama#Citation_Needed <--- Here is another example; everyone is discussing the pertinent issue, including Andrew, but then drops out of the picture and: (cur) (last) 10:09, 27 August 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) (57,862 bytes) (restored material deleted by liberal censorship) (undo)

I'm just wondering, but why is it we have to discuss changes we want to make whenever an edit conflict arises, but Andrew doesn't? This makes it essentially impossible to edit any article that Andrew has become party to because you can never know which of your edits will be acceptable or not.

Then there is this: http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Barack_Obama#Affirmative_Action_President

Despite the lack as a citation for the statement that caused that particular talk-page topic to manifest, and the lack-of-response from Andrew, any time this statement is changed Andrew swoops in and reverts it.

Am I alone in seeing this? Do I see a ghost ruffling the leafs or is it simply just the wind?[[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 19:51, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
:I've noticed it too, but I didn't think asking him about it would change anything. Especially on the "affirmative action president" thing. --[[User:Ampersand|Ampersand]] 23:15, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

::This is inane. It's been more at least a day now and we haven't even gotten a one sentence response yet; just more reverted edits without adequate explanation. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 18:28, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

::Welcome to conservapedia. Often if you attempt to question the work of ASchlafly, he will simply ignore you. --[[User:AndrasK|AndrasK]] 18:33, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

::Jirby, be concise in your comments. This site isn't a liberal blog where people talk, talk, talk without saying anything. Reversions do not have a place for summarizing the reason in the wiki software. Also, people who only criticize conservatives without criticizing the liberal vandals lack credibility.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:43, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:::So the best you can do... is complain that my words are too big and my sentences are too long? And here I was trying my best not to mischaracterize you. Shame on me! It is also clearly evident that revisions do not have a comment box, but how does that keep you from posting your reasons for consistently reverting factual edits here? It doesn't. My concern also isn't with liberal/conservative/anarchist vandals because they're freaking obvious and will be dealt with without my input (unless in the case of the uppity negro comment from before) they have fallen under the radar of authority and it behooves me to say something. Now stop trying to shift this in a way as if it is MY fault for trying to make you accountable as per your own rules. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 18:49, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:::: Jirby, your above rant illustrates my point. I'm moving on and request that you be substantive and concise in the future.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:53, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

==Large repetitions!==
The "Published Criticism" section repeats, aside from a couple of sentances, almost word for word the introduction. This needs changing as it looks silly to have repetitions so I am going to leave this comment to see if there is any response and wait 48 hours and then go to work on fixing it. [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 21:17, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

: Fine, but don't remove information from the introduction. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:18, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

::I'll only remove the double-ups from the lower section. Thanks for the quick response! [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 21:20, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

== Marxist/redistrubution of wealth line ==

Was just trying to [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=512956&oldid=512942 fix my spelling error], not trying to revert Andy. --[[User:GunsandaBible|GunsandaBible]].

=="My Muslim Faith" quote==
I've seen the video of this quote and it is taken totally out of context. What Obama is saying is that JOhn McCain has not accused him of being a secret muslim. Does anyone really believe that this is Obama mistakenly revealing that he is a muslim? Anyone who has seen the video can't seriously believe that this is the case. This quote should be removed before people start taking it seriously. [[User:Billgates3|Billgates3]]

:Can someone explain why you think it would be such a big deal if Barack Obama were actually Muslim? (Leaving aside for the moment the lack of any evidence that he ever has been a Muslim.) I thought you guys in the USA believed in separation of religion and the state, so why does it matter what religion, if any, the President happens to follow? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 20:13, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

:: As a Democrat who will be voting for Obama, I think (and I really hope that this is the general consensus) that the main issue would be that he's lied. I'd like to think that somebody saying up front that they were a Muslim wouldn't be a reason to vote against them if they're wholly qualified otherwise, but IF it turns out that somebody can prove that he really is a Muslim (I highly doubt anything like that can turn up, since everything out there now is just gossip), then he'll be caught in a BIG lie that would kill his credibility with everything. [[User:Mk|Mk]] 15:12, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

== Muslim & Catholic holidays ==

Why on earth are CP people bothered about the fact that Obama had holidays for Muslim festivals when he went to school in a Muslim country? Muslim (and Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish and Zoroastrian) children take days off school for Christian holidays in the UK without society collapsing. Honestly, some of the stuff on this page is just weird. Why on earth don't you guys concentrate on his policies (or lack of any) instead of getting so worked up about personal matters which are complete non-issues? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 19:27, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

:It is a matter of honesty which Obama will not address. America has never elected somebody with such a secret history as Barack hides from. Criticize CP all you want, I don't expect you to last here that long. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 21:12, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

::Err... why not, exactly? What's the problem with suggesting that politically-active people in the USA should concentrate on politics, not on minor details (or utterly trivial ones, in this case) of a candidate's personal life? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 12:54, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== Unreliable sourcing and references ==

The section on Obama's "secrecy" cites only a blog which gives no sources. Unless there are complaints or offers to better source it, I will remove this section or shorten it.

The section on Obama's middle name is also poorly sourced. It is claimed that "most" people change their names when they undergo a religious conversion. The cite refers to two people who converted to Christianity and then changed their names. "For example" can never be used to prove "most". Unless someone offers a statistic backing up the "most" claim, I will change it to "some". Additionally, the citation given for the meaning of "Hussein" is to a names list on about.com. There is no way this can be considered authoritative, and in any case the alternate meaning ("handsome") should also be reported lest we be accused of fearmongering.

Finally, I fail to see how "there are few atheists in Kenya" could possibly be seen as an argument against Obama's father being nonreligious. There are also few admirals in the US; does this mean McCain's father wasn't an admiral? [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:22, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

::Seeing no objection on the talk page or attempts to correct the faulty information during the last 24 hours or so, I've gone ahead and made the edits. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:39, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::Sorry, wholesale deletion of content, some which has been discussed on the talk page, is inappropriate at your rank of contributions.-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 15:48, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Surprise, surprise. Everything Egen deleted was either unsourced or irrelevant.--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 19:29, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:::This "content" is worthless and factually inaccurate in a way that's absolutely obvious to anyone reading it. The page is already too long and having such nonsense on the page is a severe detriment to our credibility. No one even attempted to respond to my reasoning and I gave ample time to allow disagreements. If ANYONE can provide reliable evidence that "most" people change their name when they convert, that Obama's father was not an atheist, and that Hussein means "descendent of the prophet Muhammad" (a baby names site is not reliable evidence) then please do so. (The last statement is, in fact, false. In Arabic, you would never simply refer to any descendant of Muhammad as "Hussein". "Hussein" does not mean "descendant of Muhammad" any more than James means "brother of Jesus.") [[User:Egen|Egen]] 19:26, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

==Senate career==
HelpJazz, the stat is no good. It is an attempt at obfusication, it's not 1 billion, it is only 18%, gee. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 23:54, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
:Uh, it say right in the article "$936 million". The 18% figure only adds to the figure, it takes away nothing. Obama has a lifetime score of 18%, which is far below failing and far below the Republican average. Plus, if you really thought that the 18% figure was obsfucation (which, I'll reiterate, doesn't make any sense) then why did you take away the scale, which gives meaning to the number? If I said that Barack Obama scored a 397 on a liberalness test, you would want to know what that score means, no? And you would want to know how he compares to other liberals, right? You wouldn't say "he scored 397 on a liberalness test -- that's just under 400!" because that doesn't add anything to the article. Your "500k/day" stat ''does'' add to the article. Even though there's nothing to compare it to, it's still a nice number that hits home how big almost a billion is. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:44, 22 September 2008 (EDT) PS: Sorry to keep you waiting, editing cut off early last night, and wasn't on this morning before I went to work.

==Muslim==

I know this has been talked about a lot here, but i would like for someone to prove to me byond a reasonable doubt that Obama is a muslim. Otherwise, i don't think we should have him in the 'muslims' category. so, can someone provide irrefutable proof that Barack Obama is a practicing muslim?
:Reasonable doubt is enough, or no article would have categories. [[User:Devout|Devout]] 15:16, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
::based on that logic i could say McCain is ineligible to be US President due to his birth in the Panama Canal Zone due to the US returning it. [[User:Xapdal5|Xapdal5]] 23:08, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

My parents and pastor always taught me not to lie, so when I heard there was a website that dealt more fairly with intelligent design and creationism than most, I wanted to check it out. I was quite upset to find a site filled with such dishonesty, double-standards, and vitriol. I don't recall that part of my bible that says 'don't lie unless it's about someone of the rival political party.' [[User:Booster|Booster]] 17:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Booster, you are not looking at this issue properly. It is not a matter of party. Obama is a Muslim. The United States is, by tradition, a Christin nation. As Devout notes, there is enough reasonable doubt that no true Christian can vote for him.--[[User:Saxplayer|Saxplayer]] 17:56, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

::::But he's NOT a Muslim. Misspeaking once or twice doesn't make you a Muslim. Not wearing a flag-pin doesn't make you a Muslim. A funny name doesn't make you a Muslim. My middle name is Caesar and I don't worship Zeus. If the man was a Muslim, there would be real evidence, unless we contend that he hides under the blanket at night and reads the Koran by flashlight. I'm not going to vote for the man because I fundamentally disagree with many of his policies, not because of untruths posted about his religion. [[User:Booster|Booster]] 22:29, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

::::You say he's a Muslim? Heck, I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that's all the proof I need!--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 18:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

I am proud muslim but not from united states. Obama is very good but not muslim. That is ok. Also, I read article and it say that Obama not change his name. Around me, muslims convert to jesus but do not change their names. I will change article if that is ok. [[User:SyedO|SyedO]] 18:06, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

The issue is that the United States is a Christian Nation. We are one nation under God, not mohammad or allah. That probably offends liberals, but it's the truth. [[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

:Not that it matters, because Obama is not a Muslim unless anyone can provide any actual evidence to suggest that he is. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 16:32, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

The US is not a Christian nation. It clearly states in the constitution that church and state are separate. while there might be christian influences it does not mean we are a christian nation. [[User:Xapdal5|Xapdal5]] 23:14, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I have yet to see conclusive evidense that he is a muslim. i am removing him from that category.

: Perhaps we should have a category called "Suspected Muslims" or "Crypto-Muslims"? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:25, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== What does "alleged" mean ==

"Does it mean he may have been born somewhere else," or that "his live birth is contested?" "Is it supposed to mean he may have been hatched?" Then he'd be evolved, right libs? Some people on here are so dumb it frightening. [[User:LarryHapp|LarryHapp]] 15:42, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Allegations of Homosexuality & Drug Use ==

I'm surprised that this article did not mention the compelling allegations of homosexuality and drug-abuse. One witness (a former homosexual called Larry Sinclair) confessed in great detail an event in which he consumed cocaine and performed oral-sex on Obama (this was a few years before he became a senator).

This issue has been the subject of at least two court-cases - both were dismissed on technicalities, conveniently allowing Mr. Obama to avoid tackling the substantive issue.

Despite being repeatedly asked to deny or even comment about these allegations Team-Obama has remained utterly silent. Surely (as Mr. Sinclair stated) - if somebody made an allegation which was incorrect you'd deny it or at least tell your side of the story. Obama's silence on this issue (as so many others) is worthy of suspicion. With the permission of my fellow Conservapedia users I'd like to add a summaary of these alegations to the article. --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:12, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

:He's already admitted to cocaine use in one of his books (''Dreams from my Father'', I think.)--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 22:15, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
::Any nutball can allege anything. Some things are below notice. [[User:CraigC|CraigC]] 08:34, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::That is true, however Larry Sinclair has been vetted by a great many conservative journalists. His story has yet to be disproven, and furthermore he has come under a great deal of attack by Joe Biden's people. Given that Sinclair's story is merely corroborating something that Obama has already admitted, why exclude it from what ought to be an authoritative article? Obama supporters have called Sinclar a nut (and much worse), but none of them have disproven his allegations? Ask yourself - why is it that Obama has not attempted to disprove that he had a homosexual liason and took crack-cocaine with Mr. Sinclair that night? His silence on the topic does not make any sense. --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 08:40, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

::: No, not everyone bothers to deny every allegation. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 09:58, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I agree, not everybody bothers to deny everything, for example if I accused you of being an "alien from outer-space" or something entirely preposterous then you might be right to disregard my comments. On the other hand Sinclair has only accused Obama of things which he has partly confessed to. Regarding drug-taking, Obama confessed that he had tried drugs as a young man but had given up. Sinclair contends that he witnessed Obama using drugs relatively recently.

:: Your point would be entirely relevant to this case if the Obama people were simply ignoring Sinclair, however as anybody who has watched this story unfold can see Obama's people have done anything but ignore Sinclair. In fact, he was the victim of a very organized campaign to discredit him. Biden's people arranged for him to be arrested during one of his press conferences (you can see it on Youtube if you do not believe me).

:: This article has presented a great deal of evidence that Mr. Obama can be sneaky and deceptive. We know that America harbors a great deal of drug-users and homosexuals. Why do you believe that somebody who faked a legal document (like a Birth Certificate) might be incapable of other acts of immorality? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:21, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== A compromise for place of birth issues? ==

Rather than simply state that he was allegedly born in a state of the USA, how about we outline the various conflicting theories regarding his place of birth, the primary evidence of each of those theories and the principle backers of each of those theories. That way we can be fair and balanced with regards to this issue? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:30, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== "Pokiston"????? ==

What's this nonsense on the News section of the Main Page about a '''Muslim''' pronounciation of Pakistan as 'Pokiston'? For one thing, there's no such thing as a Muslim pronounciation of anything - a Muslim from Glasgow sounds Scottish, a Muslim from Madras sounds South Indian. For another, the Pakistani pronounciation of Pakistan is 'Paakistaan' - long aa's (aaah). Please delete this item from the News - it just makes CP look silly. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 20:51, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: I don't think what you said is true. Arabic is the language of the Koran, having a Muslim pronunciations, and "Pakistan" is a word created by Muslims, having a Muslim pronunciation. There is Muslim pronunciation used by Obama and a very different English pronunciation used by most Americans.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::: The pronounciation of the word as used in India and Pakistan - by Hindus, Muslims, Christians and everyone else - is Paakistaan. That would also be an transliteration of the word into English. It's now also much the most common pronounciation in the UK; before about 1970 in the UK, both "a"s were pronounced as the short, semi-closed "a" as in cat, hat, fat, etc, but it's changed to become closer to the Indian/Pakistani pronounciation. I daresay the "cat/hat/fat" vowel sound might still be used "by most Americans" (to quote you) but that isn't the usage in India, Pakistan or the UK. I have no idea how Obama says Pakistan but there's no more a Muslim pronounciation of the word than there is a Hindu or Christian one. In any case, Pakistan is an Urdu word, not an Arabic one. It makes no more sense to say that 'Pakistan' is an Arabic word than to say that 'automobile' is a Greek word. And finally, why does this matter to you? [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 20:32, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Andy- just because Arabic is the language of the Koran, that doesn't mean that there is such a thing as "Muslim pronounciations." In this last statement, you've conflated religion ("Muslim pronounciation"), linguistic groups ("Arabic") and nationalities ("Pakistan" and "English pronounciation used by most Americans.") They are all different, and all complex. A French-speaking Algerian isn't going to pronounce "Pakistan" the same way as an Arabic-speaking Sudanese or an Indonesian. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:03, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, right, an American doesn't pronounce Pakistan the way that Muslims educated in Indonesia do, which underscores the point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:14, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::: But isn't Obama an American? --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 16:15, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::He ''claims'' to be. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 16:20, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::I know LOTS of Americans who use the pronounciation in question. And Brits, too. Look at it this way: if the link between the language of the Koran and the billion or so Muslims scattered across the globe means that there is such a thing as "Muslim pronounciation," does that mean that the world's Christians--Swedes, Phillipinos, Americans, Candians, Irish, Brazilians, French, Germans, all share "Christian pronounciations" that can be traced back to Hebrew, Aramaic and ancient Greek? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:18, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::::::Quite correct, AliceBG. A Christian from South India doesn't sounds like a Christian from Scotland and a Muslim from Scotland doesn't sound like a Muslim from South India. Putting stuff like this "Pokiston" issue on CP's front page gives the impression that Aschafly and his colleagues have no serious issues with which to attack Obama and are forced to resort to personal trivia of the silliest kind. I really don't understand why Aschafly & friends don't focus on the politics. This is very peculiar to people outside the USA. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 14:34, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Liberals protest here too much to the observation that Obama uses the Muslim pronunciation of Pakistan rather than the virtually universal American pronunciation. But nothing in the liberal protests explains the clear difference in a satisfactory manner.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:40, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Actually, many of the protests have pointed out clearly that your assertion is based on a mistaken conflation between religion and linguistic groups, have pointed to the fact that Muslims from different language groups pronounce words differently, and have pointed out that the notion of "Christian pronounciation" would obviously be an impossible phenomenon to talk about. i'd repeat myself, but I'd rather go back to improving your encyclopedia for you. Asalaam Aleikum.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:47, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Aschafly, why is pointing out an instance where CP is talking nonsense 'liberal'? [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 16:14, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

This is just ridiculous. What is a "Muslim pronunciation?" Muslims everywhere pronounce words and names differently. If anything, an "Arabic pronunciation" might exist, but that is debatable. And don't give me the crap about that because Arabic is the language of the Koran, everyone who uses an Arabic pronunciation is Muslim. Arab Christians around the world speak Arabic. Plus, Arabic was being spoken way before Islam cam around. The name of the country should be pronounced the way it actually sounds, as dictated by the natives. Iraq is not "eye-rack," it is pronounced Irok. The fact that Obama pronounces Pakistan properly just shows that he is attentive to the culture and language of the country, (a key ally that we are in danger of losing, by the way), not that he is a Muslim. Even if there were some kind of valid point in the "Pokiston" argument, which there is most definitely not, it would be minuscule considering the broader scale of things. This whole section has just got to go.

: You protest too much. There is a common American pronunciation of "Pakistan", but Obama uses the different pronunciation he either learned while attending a Muslim grade school, or heard from his closest advisers over the past 20 years. It's informative to point that out, whether you think he's "correct" or not. Pronunciations can be illustrative of one's culture and beliefs. It suggests the pronunciation used by one's teachers and advisers.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:37, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Notice that you didn't address any of the actual points I made. I say "Pokistan." I avoid saying "eye-rack." Am I a Muslim? And what is an "American" pronunciation? As far as I know, there is no "American" way of saying anything. Do you mean an English pronunciation? I am simply baffled by some of the things people say on this site.

== Section headings ==

This is a long article with a large variety of sub-topics. I've inserted a half-dozen section headings that improve readability and organization. While it might be a good idea to think about re-organizing the sections and moving particular facts into different sections, I really think the piece needs to be broken up like this--plus it makes it more effective, acting as a catalogue of important questions and criticisms.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:51, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

: The greatest insights are going on the first screen page, period.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:58, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Fine--why undo the section headings, then? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:59, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::I think I see the problem - when a section heading is inserted higher up, the contents block, which is rather large, takes up most of the first screen. However, if you hit the "hide" button on the contents block, it takes up very little space and the insights are on the first screen page. It seems to be a "sticky" hide also, as it continues to be hidden when I re-load the page. I hope this helps. Like [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]], I'm just attempting to improve readability by inserting section headings. I do not want to remove any insights, or hide any. I believe section headings actually make it easier for the reader to glance over the many areas of concern (in the contents block), and go quickly to their area of interest, whilst still remaining aware of the other topics presented. They will also help editors to put their information in the correct section, thus minimizing problems with redundant information and making the whole article easier to read. (Right now, some of it kind of jumps around.) I am also open to other solutions to the problems that a long article presents. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 23:14, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Oh, i see the problem too. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:15, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
== HSMOM ==

A lot of the stuff under the "Islam" section heading has nothing to do with Islam, but Schlafly won't let anyone put it in a reasonable order. Good luck with that. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:07, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:Told you. He won't listen.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:09, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::There should be a way to solve this. You can force the TOC to not show up and then manually add it some where else. I can't remember how to do it off the top of my head, but I'll see if I can poke around and remember how. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 12:43, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Ok, as dirty as I feel for putting "his muslim faith" higher up than his birth, hopefully this should solve the problem. Now the Muslim insights are on the first page, and they are sectioned off for better flow. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 12:54, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

I fail to see how Obama's pronunciation of "Pakistan" has anything to do with his religion. And I don't care that he didn't change his middle name. Maybe he does have muslim beliefs, but these things would have nothing to do with it. There has to be fewer illogical statements here to be respectable; I thought the point of this page was to get away from the bias of wikipedia. Don't make conservatives look bad. Logic, facts, and history are on the conservative's side - use them.

==Professor?==

In attempting to organize the article yesterday, I came across two different sections on Obama's job at the University of Chicago. They seem to contradict each other. Here they are:
* Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago; in fact, he held the position of "Senior Lecturer."<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> <ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> For most of his time there he was regarded by the university as a professor.<ref>Obama was on the faculty at the University of Chicago from 1992 to 2004.[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>
*He was "Senior Lecturer in the Law", which is not a professor-level position, at the [[University of Chicago]] Law School as of 2004<ref>http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml</ref> and is no longer active at the school.<ref>http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama</ref>
<references/>
To sort this out, I looked at the references provided. Here's what they said:
* ''"I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution," Obama told an audience at a campaign fundraiser. ... Responding to Obama's comments, Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, said, "Senator Obama needs to understand that at this level words matter and he will be scrutinized." Ronayne pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. The University of Chicago lists him as a senior lecturer on leave.''<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref> So in this reference, an AP story in the San Francisco Chronicle, we have evidence that Obama has indeed called himself a law professor, and a quote from an RNC spokesman saying he was not.
* This reference <ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> is to a chat board. It mostly lists several references, including the article above and the University of Chicago's ''Statement Regarding Barack Obama''.
* The next two references are repeats of the first two.
* The next is the University of Chicago's ''Statement Regarding Barack Obama''.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> It states: ''The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer." From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.'' It seems that he was an adjunct from '92 to '96, but after that, as a Senior Lecturer, he was considered a professor.
* The next reference is a news article on UChicago's site from '04. It uses the title of Senior Lecturer to describe Obama, which confirms that he was indeed at that time a Senior Lecturer. <ref>[http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml]</ref>
<references/>
All of the references seem to agree that Obama was a Senior Lecturer, and that he was not full-time. The RNC spokesman said that Obama was "only a Senior Lecturer and not a full professor". UofC said "Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track". I think we should sum all this up by including something along the lines of the following:
*Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago.<ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref> He held the position of Lecturer, an adjunct position, from 1992 to 1996.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> He held the position of Senior Lecturer from 1996 until his election to the senate in 2004.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, has pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. <ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref>The University states that Senior Lecturers are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure track.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>
<references/>
--[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 15:36, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

== Great-uncle ==

Please could someone explain why it matters that Obama's great-uncle liberated Buchenwald rather than Auschwitz? [Stuff not about B.O. deleted] Really, fellow CP people, sometimes you have to stop nit-picking and get a life. Surely there are political issues you can attack the man on? Why are you fussing about precisely which Nazi concentration camp his great-uncle helped to liberate. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 18:25, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

::It not that he was wrong about his uncle, its that he used it as a politics tool. Like how he says about 57 states. He doesnt think or research about what he says. Do we want a president that makes that many slips? [[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

::: Well, I'd say he isn't the first American politician (or British one, come to that) not to be 100% careful about what he says on every single occasion. How about your ''current'' President?! [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 18:33, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

:::: The problem is one of honesty, not harmless slips. The gaffes reveal a real Obama that is being denied by himself and his supporters. Obama's gaffes are analogous to a racist gaffe, which of course no liberal would ignore if uttered by an opponent.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:36, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

::::: My head is spinning... Thanks, anyway, for not putting that particularly unpleasant slur back on your page about B.O. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 16:17, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

==Birth certificate edit==
The word "alleged" will stay for now, and here's why: the reference used for the certificate links to a pic of what is claimed to be Obama's, which is not the original. What is there is what could be called a "certified official copy" from the Department of Vital Statistics in Hawaii, which means that someone went to the filed originals and started typing on the copy sheet what he/she saw. Since there is a little war brewing over whether or not Obama was actualy born there, I think it's reasonable to ask for A) a copy of what a Hawaiian birth certificate looked like in 1960; and B) a Xerox copy of Obama's birth certificate as it appears in the files, and NOT as the certified copy that we are seeing now. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:04, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to revert my stance on it. Certain federal laws state that if a person is born to an American citizen in another country, that baby is an American citizen as well (there is such a document as a State Department birth certificate). Unless it is proven that the Hawaiian birth certificate is a fake, I think this website should just say that he was born there and leave it at that. It's just not much of an issue when there are more serious ones to concentrate on (Bill Ayers, ACORN, his Marxism, etc). [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 14:11, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

== sex ed for kindergartners? ==

Why do I keep hearing about Obama wanting sex ed for kindergartners? It is appalling to think that the next president of the united states might actually teach sex education to 5 year old's.

Answer: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

== Disgusted Conservative ==

I've voted Republican in every election since 1960, but I'm absolutely disgusted by this page.

What happened to the dignity of our party under Goldwater and Reagan? This "encyclopedia" page is just one long rant.

Are there any real conservatives out there willing to present objective, factual criticism of Obama? God knows there are enough valid arguments to make. Why are we channeling Michael Savage rather than William Buckley? Currently this page makes me cry for my party.

:Sounds like disgusted conservative is voting for BO. I happen to think it is an accurate account of a man that is dishonest. Where will you get the real picture about about if not here? Are you disgusted by Wikipedias article? How about the coverage on MSNBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, PBS, LATimes, WaPo, NYT, Google, The Guardian. Why not be mad and except that the majority of America is being fooled? Why not be mad at someone as disgusting as BO, actually has a real chance to take the Presidency and doesn't deserve it IN THE LEAST? Reagan is rolling over in his grave and so all the Founders.--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 09:54, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Voting Republican again this year. I know you're mad about what's going on, but it shows throughout the page. An encyclopedia can't be written from an angry point of view. Let me be specific:

1) "Obama and Elitism" plus "Obama and Islam" are not valid main introductory sections. Start with his early life.

2) His birth certificate gets its own section but his healthcare and tax plans don't? Focus on what's really important.

3) The "Insights" section is just a list of criticisms and belongs under a "Criticism" section. Categorize corectly.

4) Off-topic side-swipes: "He became a member of the Harvard Law Review, which uses racial quotas, in 1989". Why is "which uses racial quotas" in there? If it was a reason that he was chosen, say that. If it wasn't leave it out.

5) Unsubstantiated claims: "Obama's campaign has been financed largely by leftist donors opposed to the war and to the American military in general." Citation definitely needed.

You have several good sections in here: "Senate career", "Foreign policy experience", "Published criticism", "Religious affiliations". These are high-quality and reflect well on Conservapedia. The others do not.

See the reply from hsmom below as the kind of constructive, factual accuracy this page needs.

::This sounds like you're standard liberal bellyaching. The fact is that no real conservative Christian can vote for this man.

:::??!?! Trying to hold this article to some kind of standard is bellyaching? Would you like to address any of my points?

::::Your points is liberal talking points. The fact is that Barack Hussein Obama wants to talk with Iran without predeterminations, flip flops, and is close friends to an unrepentive TERRORIST. What more can you know?
:::::Trying to shift the focus on an ''encyclopedia page'' about a presidential candidate from hypothetical statements (his possible Islamic faith) and trivial matters (his birth certificate), to his actual stance on the issues is liberal bellyaching? If anything, we should be casting aside these trivial circumstances as beneath us and take the time to dissect each of his stances on the actual issues. That's what a real, dignified Conservative would do. Relying on ridiculous tactics such as these is asinine and cowardly. --[[User:FrankincenseMonster|FrankincenseMonster]] 16:21, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

==Nation of Islam==
''Obama's pastor of twenty-years, Rev. Wright, was originally a member with the Nation of Islam (likely always has been, see [[taqiyya]])'' Let's be careful not to confuse the Nation of Islam with the traditional Muslim faith - they are two quite different things. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 10:10, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

==57 Islamic states==

I attempted to make this article better by noting, as several other Conservapedia writers have, that "57 states" could be a reference to Heinz ketchup or simple a misstatement (Obama had visited 47 states), as well as the fact that there were not 57 Islamic states when Obama attended an Indonesian school. It was reverted. Why? Is this an encyclopedia, or a liberal hate blog? [[User:Egen|Egen]] 10:42, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

: Your edit was baseless, and probably politically motivated. The entry is factual and will remain that way. Obama has likely remained a Muslim long after attending grade school. Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:52, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: On the subject, I think someone should add the following line to your page: "The odds against Aschlafly's claim to be named 'Andrew Schlafly' being truthful are less than 1 billion to one, as fewer than 6 people in the world are named Andrew Schlafly." Don't put malarkey like this on a serious encyclopedia page and defend it as being "factual". I remind you of Conservapedia Commandments 1, 2, and 5. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 11:04, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: In any case, I fail to see how it is "baseless" to note, as other Conservapedia writers have, that "57 states" cannot possibly be a reference to "57 Islamic states" and probably has a more benign origin. It does not to any good to assert that anyone who disagrees with you probably does so because they are "politically motivated" (read: liberal) when many conservatives have expressed disdain for this point. I doubt that the majority of Conservapedia editors would disagree with my edit. This encyclopedia is not a personal blog for you or for anyone else. Therefore, I am reinserting the edit. If anyone can provide proof that Obama was referring to the "57 Islamic states" which did not exist when he was growing up '''and''' provide proof that that is what he was referring to, I'll retract this. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 12:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

::: Egen - I entirely agree with you. A lot of people here think this is a redstate comments thread rather than, as it says in the top left corner, "the trustworthy encyclopedia". Snopes on this one: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp

==Biased==
Isn't this site supposed to be unbaised?-[[User:Red4tribe|Red4tribe]] 16:46, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Welcome to Conservapedia[[User:Pluto|Pluto]] 18:19, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== "born, allegedly, in Honolulu" ==

there's no doubt he was ''born''. that should read "allegedly born in Honolulu"

God bless. [[User:JohnBarma|JohnBarma]] 13:30, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

:As the previous poster said, "(born, allegedly, in Honolulu,<ref>MSM Ignores Democrat Lawsuit Against Obama[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/08/22/msm-ignores-democrat-lawsuit-against-obama]</ref><ref>[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Large, high-resolution picture of his birth certificate]</ref> August 4, 1961)", implies that he may not have been born, which I think is not what is intended. "Allegedly born in Honolulu" has the same problem. Putting aside whether or not the "allegedly" is silly (and frankly I think the factcheck.org folks debunked this one), if you want to convey the idea that he was born, but may have been born somewhere other than Hawaii, then it should read "(born, allegedly in Honolulu,<ref>MSM Ignores Democrat Lawsuit Against Obama[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gladnick/2008/08/22/msm-ignores-democrat-lawsuit-against-obama]</ref><ref>[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Large, high-resolution picture of his birth certificate]</ref> August 4, 1961)". Comma placement matters. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 20:58, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

== Favorite black leader ==

I've just finished reading Dreams from My Father. I don't recommend it. But one thing I missed was a reference to Malcolm X being Obama's "favorite black leader". He speaks highly of Malcolm X's autobiography, but doesn't like the "religious baggage" that the guy "discarded in later life". Is the reference here correct? [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 17:10, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

: Search Google on {"Malcolm X" Obama favorite} and you'll find numerous credible confirmations of the statement about Malcolm X being Obama's favorite black leader. The entry need not be limited to the silly Dreams book.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:03, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

::Not really seeing it. Various claims Obama loves Malcolm X's autobiography (which, subject to the point above, seems correct), but the claims that he is Obama's "favorite black leader" all cite no reference, or cite Dreams - I think incorrectly. Is there a source for Obama having said or written this? If not, it should go. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 18:12, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I agree that it should be sourced, preferably with a quote from his book or one of his speeches, otherwise it could be mistaken for an untrue rumor. If he qualified the statement with something about X's religion, as Marcdaniels noted above, that should be included in the quote. I looked for a credible source, but couldn't find one. I have added a fact tag, which can be removed when a suitable citation is found. (Let's not forget that Malcolm X was involved with the Nation of Islam, which is quite a different thing than traditional Islam. He rejected the Nation of Islam later in life.)--[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 21:13, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

:::: Examples supporting the statement are easy to find. I just added one. I don't think anyone seriously doubts the truth of the statement. Feel free to find and add other citations supporting it. The discomfort expressed above seems to be with the fact itself.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:54, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

::::: Your source goes back to the book, which I'd thought we'd both agreed wasn't on point. It's entirely plausible that Obama might regard Malcolm X as his favorite black leader, and that would discomfort me in the slightest, but I'm having real difficulty finding any evidence that he has said or written this. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 07:40, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::: No, you've misread me now. I did not agree that book wasn't on point. I did say there is further evidence beyond the book, which is easy to find on the internet.

:::::: The quote from the book is convincing enough. If you won't accept it, then I doubt you would accept anything now.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 08:20, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

:::::: I am now a little confused, and I'm not sure why you are getting personal. You suggested there were additional sources for the claim on the internet, other than those referring to the book, but I cannot find one. I may be missing something obvious - would be helpful if you could provide a link. The book shows Malcolm X's autobiography to have been Obama's favourite autobiography, and it would be accurate to say that, but anything further seems supposition rather than fact. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 11:35, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

Conservative

2008-10-11T12:12:14Z

Marcdaniels: more balance added - will return with some references

A '''conservative''' is one who adheres to principles of limited government, personal responsibility and moral values. A conservative would likely agree with the statement in [[George Washington]]'s [[Farewell Address]] that "religion and morality are indispensable supports" to political prosperity.<ref>[http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/49.htm United States Department of State] George Washington, farewell address, 1796</ref> Conservatism arose in the 19th century as a response to [[liberalism]], particularly as manifested in the [[French Revolution]].<ref>In addition, Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary has the following definition of conservative: "tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL"[http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/conservative] Therefore, a conservative Christian would be one that tends to adhere to the doctrines of the early Christianity and [[Judeo-Christian]] values.</ref>

== Conservatives in the United States ==

In the United States, conservatives are generally characterized by adherence to limited government, public morality and free enterprise. Specifically, conservatives tend to adhere to the following principles:

* Checking change on tradition
* A strong national defense
* Return of prayer in school
* The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, as long as such possession does not threaten national security
* Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
* Stronger law enforcement and anti-crime laws, including the death penalty
* Parents, rather than school teachers, educating children about sex
* Choice in education
* Private medical care and retirement plans
* Weakening or cancellation of failed social support programs
* Prohibition of abortion
* Opposition to same-sex marriage licenses and homosexuals
* Support of laws against pornography
* Generally opposed to the United Nations
* Support enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
* Support tightening of border security
* Respect for our military... past and present
* Low taxes, especially in upper income brackets
* Opening foreign markets to U.S. products
* Less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments

About every 20-60 years a conservative has been elected president of the United States. Examples include:

*[[George Washington]]
*[[James Monroe]]
*[[Grover Cleveland]]
*[[William Howard Taft]]
*[[Warren G. Harding]]
*[[Ronald Reagan]]

In America, most conservatives tend to align with the [[Republican Party]], but not exclusively so.

== Conservative News Organizations ==
Some of the more notable news organizations which tend to be more conservative are [[Fox News]], [[WorldNetDaily]], [[NewsMax]], and [[Cybercast News Service]].

== Conservative Magazines and Blogs ==
Two well known conservative magazines in the United States are The Weekly Standard and the [[National Review]].

Some of the more notable [[Conservative political blogs|conservative political blogs]] are Power Line, Captain's Quarters, the blog of [[Michelle Malkin]], Newsbusters, the Heritage Policy Weblog, Humanevents, Townhall, and the Conservative Caucus blog.

== Neoconservatives ==

American commentators who ally themselves with the conservative movement but reject its religious or moral underpinnings are generally known as [[neoconservatives]].<ref>Jonah Goldberg, [http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZWMxNWNiNDJkY2JmNTExY2E1MzdkYWU3MWU1MTBiOGU= "What Is a 'Conservative'?"], [[National Review|National Review Online]], 11 May 2005</ref>

In the United States, conservatives are generally characterized by the following beliefs:

# A deep suspicion of the power of the state.
# A preference for liberty over equality.
# Patriotism.
# A belief in established institutions and hierarchies.
# Skepticism about the idea of progress.

However, neoconservatives generally support government power and are indifferent to liberty and equality.

==Conservatives in the United Kingdom==

In the United Kingdom the present parliamentary opposition party is called the [[Conservative Party]]. Its current leader is [[David Cameron]].<ref>[http://www.conservatives.com Conservative party UK]</ref>

Up until the mid-19th century, the forerunners of the Conservatives were known as [[Tory|Tories]], and the name has persisted as a common nickname both for the political party and those believed to be in agreement with it. Since the mid-to-late 1970s, UK conservatives have been defined by an advocacy of [[laissez-faire]] economics, privatization and lower taxation. In recent years the Conservative Party has moved away from the social conservatism which once characterised it, and the current party policy includes, for example, support for abortion on demand and gay civil partnership and the Kyoto Treaty and to oppose capital punishment (although it should be noted that such policies have little support amongst the party's grassroots membership) <ref>John Charmley, ''A History of Conservative Politics Since 1830 (Second Edition)'', 2008 </ref>

Levels of prayer and worship are much lower in the [[U.K.]] than in the [[U.S.]]{{fact}}, and religious issues thereby play less of a role in [[England]]. Religious issues remain a significant factor in [[Northern Ireland]] and in 2008 religious issues were significant during a special election in [[Scotland]].

In common with conservatives in many other countries, UK Conservatives tend towards a patriotic rather than [[internationalist]] outlook, and are traditionally skeptical of the [[European Union]].

In the United Kingdom the broadcast media is exclusively [[liberal]] in tone. The print media is significantly tilted to the Left - foe example, The Times (often seen as the paper of the establishment) is in a similar position on the political spectrum to the New York Times; the Independent and the Guardian, on the other hand, are significantly further to the Left than any mainstream American publication. The main Conservative newspapers are the [[Daily Telegraph]] and the more populist [[Daily Mail]] {{fact}}. [[The Spectator]] is a weekly journal of opinion which expresses broadly conservative views; until 2006 it was edited by [[Boris Johnson]], a Conservative politician who was elected Mayor of [[London]] in 2008.

== See also ==
*[[Previous Breaking News/Conservatives|Articles about '''Conservatives''' from previous "Breaking News"]]
*[[More News/Conservatives|Articles about '''Conservatives''' from "More News"]]
*[[Conservative Links]]

== References ==
{{reflist|2}}

==External Links==
*[http://www.aim.org/wls/category/conservatives/ What Liberals Say - Category: Conservatives], [[Accuracy In Media]]

[[Category:Conservative|Conservative]]
[[Category:Politics]]

Conservative

2008-10-11T11:56:14Z

Marcdaniels: /* Conservatives in the United Kingdom */

A '''conservative''' is one who adheres to principles of limited government, personal responsibility and moral values. A conservative would likely agree with the statement in [[George Washington]]'s [[Farewell Address]] that "religion and morality are indispensable supports" to political prosperity.<ref>[http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/49.htm United States Department of State] George Washington, farewell address, 1796</ref> Conservatism arose in the 19th century as a response to [[liberalism]], particularly as manifested in the [[French Revolution]].<ref>In addition, Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary has the following definition of conservative: "tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL"[http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/conservative] Therefore, a conservative Christian would be one that tends to adhere to the doctrines of the early Christianity and [[Judeo-Christian]] values.</ref>

== Conservatives in the United States ==

In the United States, conservatives are generally characterized by adherence to limited government, public morality and free enterprise. Specifically, conservatives tend to adhere to the following principles:

* Checking change on tradition
* A strong national defense
* Return of prayer in school
* The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, as long as such possession does not threaten national security
* Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
* Stronger law enforcement and anti-crime laws, including the death penalty
* Parents, rather than school teachers, educating children about sex
* Choice in education
* Private medical care and retirement plans
* Weakening or cancellation of failed social support programs
* Prohibition of abortion
* Opposition to same-sex marriage licenses and homosexuals
* Support of laws against pornography
* Generally opposed to the United Nations
* Support enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
* Support tightening of border security
* Respect for our military... past and present
* Low taxes, especially in upper income brackets
* Opening foreign markets to U.S. products
* Less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments

About every 20-60 years a conservative has been elected president of the United States. Examples include:

*[[George Washington]]
*[[James Monroe]]
*[[Grover Cleveland]]
*[[William Howard Taft]]
*[[Warren G. Harding]]
*[[Ronald Reagan]]

In America, most conservatives tend to align with the [[Republican Party]], but not exclusively so.

== Conservative News Organizations ==
Some of the more notable news organizations which tend to be more conservative are [[Fox News]], [[WorldNetDaily]], [[NewsMax]], and [[Cybercast News Service]].

== Conservative Magazines and Blogs ==
Two well known conservative magazines in the United States are The Weekly Standard and the [[National Review]].

Some of the more notable [[Conservative political blogs|conservative political blogs]] are Power Line, Captain's Quarters, the blog of [[Michelle Malkin]], Newsbusters, the Heritage Policy Weblog, Humanevents, Townhall, and the Conservative Caucus blog.

== Neoconservatives ==

American commentators who ally themselves with the conservative movement but reject its religious or moral underpinnings are generally known as [[neoconservatives]].<ref>Jonah Goldberg, [http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZWMxNWNiNDJkY2JmNTExY2E1MzdkYWU3MWU1MTBiOGU= "What Is a 'Conservative'?"], [[National Review|National Review Online]], 11 May 2005</ref>

In the United States, conservatives are generally characterized by the following beliefs:

# A deep suspicion of the power of the state.
# A preference for liberty over equality.
# Patriotism.
# A belief in established institutions and hierarchies.
# Skepticism about the idea of progress.

However, neoconservatives generally support government power and are indifferent to liberty and equality.

==Conservatives in the United Kingdom==

In the United Kingdom the present parliamentary opposition party is called the [[Conservative Party]]. Its current leader is [[David Cameron]].<ref>[http://www.conservatives.com Conservative party UK]</ref>

Up until the mid-19th century, the forerunners of the Conservatives were known as [[Tory|Tories]], and the name has persisted as a common nickname both for the political party and those believed to be in agreement with it. Since the mid-to-late 1970s, UK conservatives have been defined by an advocacy of [[laissez-faire]] economics, privatization and lower taxation. In recent years the Conservative Party has moved away from the social conservatism which once characterised it, and the current party policy includes, for example, support for abortion on demand and gay civil partnership and the Kyoto Treaty and to oppose capital punishment (although it should be noted that such policies have little support amongst the party's grassroots membership) <ref>John Charmley, ''A History of Conservative Politics Since 1830 (Second Edition)'', 2008 </ref>

Levels of prayer and worship are much lower in the [[U.K.]] than in the [[U.S.]]{{fact}}, and religious issues thereby play less of a role in [[England]]. Religious issues remain a significant factor in [[Northern Ireland]] and in 2008 religious issues were significant during a special election in [[Scotland]].

In common with conservatives in many other countries, UK Conservatives tend towards a patriotic rather than [[internationalist]] outlook, and are traditionally skeptical of the [[European Union]].

In the United Kingdom the broadcast media is almost exclusively [[liberal]] in tone. The main Conservative newspapers are the [[Daily Telegraph]] and the more populist [[Daily Mail]]. [[The Spectator]] is a weekly journal of opinion which expresses broadly conservative views; until 2006 it was edited by [[Boris Johnson]], a Conservative politician who was elected Mayor of [[London]] in 2008.

== See also ==
*[[Previous Breaking News/Conservatives|Articles about '''Conservatives''' from previous "Breaking News"]]
*[[More News/Conservatives|Articles about '''Conservatives''' from "More News"]]
*[[Conservative Links]]

== References ==
{{reflist|2}}

==External Links==
*[http://www.aim.org/wls/category/conservatives/ What Liberals Say - Category: Conservatives], [[Accuracy In Media]]

[[Category:Conservative|Conservative]]
[[Category:Politics]]

Conservative

2008-10-11T11:44:12Z

Marcdaniels: /* Conservative Magazines and Blogs */

A '''conservative''' is one who adheres to principles of limited government, personal responsibility and moral values. A conservative would likely agree with the statement in [[George Washington]]'s [[Farewell Address]] that "religion and morality are indispensable supports" to political prosperity.<ref>[http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/49.htm United States Department of State] George Washington, farewell address, 1796</ref> Conservatism arose in the 19th century as a response to [[liberalism]], particularly as manifested in the [[French Revolution]].<ref>In addition, Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary has the following definition of conservative: "tending or disposed to maintain existing views, conditions, or institutions : TRADITIONAL"[http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/conservative] Therefore, a conservative Christian would be one that tends to adhere to the doctrines of the early Christianity and [[Judeo-Christian]] values.</ref>

== Conservatives in the United States ==

In the United States, conservatives are generally characterized by adherence to limited government, public morality and free enterprise. Specifically, conservatives tend to adhere to the following principles:

* Checking change on tradition
* A strong national defense
* Return of prayer in school
* The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, as long as such possession does not threaten national security
* Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
* Stronger law enforcement and anti-crime laws, including the death penalty
* Parents, rather than school teachers, educating children about sex
* Choice in education
* Private medical care and retirement plans
* Weakening or cancellation of failed social support programs
* Prohibition of abortion
* Opposition to same-sex marriage licenses and homosexuals
* Support of laws against pornography
* Generally opposed to the United Nations
* Support enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
* Support tightening of border security
* Respect for our military... past and present
* Low taxes, especially in upper income brackets
* Opening foreign markets to U.S. products
* Less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments

About every 20-60 years a conservative has been elected president of the United States. Examples include:

*[[George Washington]]
*[[James Monroe]]
*[[Grover Cleveland]]
*[[William Howard Taft]]
*[[Warren G. Harding]]
*[[Ronald Reagan]]

In America, most conservatives tend to align with the [[Republican Party]], but not exclusively so.

== Conservative News Organizations ==
Some of the more notable news organizations which tend to be more conservative are [[Fox News]], [[WorldNetDaily]], [[NewsMax]], and [[Cybercast News Service]].

== Conservative Magazines and Blogs ==
Two well known conservative magazines in the United States are The Weekly Standard and the [[National Review]].

Some of the more notable [[Conservative political blogs|conservative political blogs]] are Power Line, Captain's Quarters, the blog of [[Michelle Malkin]], Newsbusters, the Heritage Policy Weblog, Humanevents, Townhall, and the Conservative Caucus blog.

== Neoconservatives ==

American commentators who ally themselves with the conservative movement but reject its religious or moral underpinnings are generally known as [[neoconservatives]].<ref>Jonah Goldberg, [http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZWMxNWNiNDJkY2JmNTExY2E1MzdkYWU3MWU1MTBiOGU= "What Is a 'Conservative'?"], [[National Review|National Review Online]], 11 May 2005</ref>

In the United States, conservatives are generally characterized by the following beliefs:

# A deep suspicion of the power of the state.
# A preference for liberty over equality.
# Patriotism.
# A belief in established institutions and hierarchies.
# Skepticism about the idea of progress.

However, neoconservatives generally support government power and are indifferent to liberty and equality.

==Conservatives in the United Kingdom==

In the United Kingdom the present parliamentary opposition party is called the [[Conservative Party]] and, as its name suggests, it holds traditional conservative views. Its current leader is [[David Cameron]].<ref>[http://www.conservatives.com Conservative party UK]</ref>

Up until the mid-19th century, the forerunners of the Conservatives were known as [[Tory|Tories]], and the name has persisted as a common nickname both for the political party and those believed to be in agreement with it. Since the late 1970s, UK conservatives have been defined by an advocacy of [[laissez-faire]] economics, privatization and lower taxation.

Levels of prayer and worship are much lower in the [[U.K.]] than in the [[U.S.]]{{fact}}, and religious issues thereby play less of a role in [[England]]. Religious issues remain a significant factor in [[Northern Ireland]] and in 2008 religious issues were significant during a special election in [[Scotland]].

In common with conservatives in many other countries, UK Conservatives tend towards a Nationalist outlook, and are traditionally skeptical of the [[European Union]].

In the United Kingdom the broadcast media is almost exclusively [[liberal]] in tone. The main Conservative newspapers are the [[Daily Telegraph]] and the more populist [[Daily Mail]]. [[The Spectator]] is a weekly journal of opinion which expresses broadly conservative views; until 2006 it was edited by [[Boris Johnson]], a Conservative politician who was elected Mayor of [[London]] in 2008.

== See also ==
*[[Previous Breaking News/Conservatives|Articles about '''Conservatives''' from previous "Breaking News"]]
*[[More News/Conservatives|Articles about '''Conservatives''' from "More News"]]
*[[Conservative Links]]

== References ==
{{reflist|2}}

==External Links==
*[http://www.aim.org/wls/category/conservatives/ What Liberals Say - Category: Conservatives], [[Accuracy In Media]]

[[Category:Conservative|Conservative]]
[[Category:Politics]]

Talk:Barack Hussein Obama

2008-10-11T11:40:46Z

Marcdaniels: /* Favorite black leader */

Talk:Barack Hussein Obama

2008-10-10T22:12:07Z

Marcdaniels: /* Favorite black leader */

Archives:
[[/archive1|1]]
[[/archive2|2]]
[[/archive3|3]]

== Meaning of Hussein ==

This has been brought up before, but I just wanted to do some research so we could clear it up: 1st point: According to the Oxford Dictionary of First Names, 2nd Edition (published 2006 by the Oxford University Press; authors Patrick Hanks, Kate Hardcastle, and Flavia Hodges; ISBN 0-19-861060-2) Hussein means this: " '''Husayn''' ♂ Diminutive of ''hasan'' 'good, beautiful, exquisite.' Al-Husayn (''c''.626-680) was the grandson of the Prophet, whose supporters emerged after his death as the Shiite party." Hussein is a variant of Husayn, yet it is unlisted in this dictionary. However, I think that it is apparent that this is simply a modified/altered form of the phonetic equivalent, much like Katherine/Catherine/Kathryn. Hussein/Husayn WAS the grandson of the Prophet, but to say that the name means such is akin to claiming that Mary means "Mother of Jesus." It may be a colloquial usage or have that connotative meaning, but until there is proof of that, then the entry seems to be incorrect. 2nd point: The source currently referenced (http://www.sudairy.com) displays this for the definition of Hussein: 
"'''Husain, Husayn, Hussein''' - Beautiful, doer of good deads[sic]; a descendent[sic] of the Prophet" which implies that the Oxford source is 1) more accurate as it is verifiable and edited by a trustworthy source and capable speller, and 2) "descendent[sic] of the Prophet" is in reference to the original namesake, though it is not clearly marked. If we are to trust sudairy.com as being completely accurate, however, then anyone named Hayyan, Hannad, or Nizar have the denotative travesty of meaning "Old Arabic Name." I think the entry should be changed to reflect this. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 16:52, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: I don't understand. You list one of the meanings as "a descendent[sic] of the Prophet." Are you trying to imply that this is not Mohammed?--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 16:18, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:: I listed the incorrect meaning as "descendent[sic] of the Prophet." This is from the website Suidairy.com, which is not an accurate source of information (my justification is the last paragraph of the first post). The definition I feel is most accurate is the Oxford one, listed above, which lists the definition as "good, beautiful, exquisite." Al-Husayn (a man, not a name) was the descendant of the prophet. For comparison, anyone named Jesus would not be assumed to be the son of God. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 16:25, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

== No longer presumptive ==

He's the real-deal nominee at this point. [[User:Athuroglossos|Athuroglossos]] 13:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:He's presumptive in the sense that Obama is far too inexperienced to be President. [[User:Redstatepride|Redstatepride]] 18:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Education In Jakarta, Indonesia ==

All students in Indonesia, regardless of religion get off for Islamic holy days including Nabi Isa which we know as Christmas. It's disengenuous to make a claim that because he went to a public school and got an Islamic holy day off that there's some nefarious connection. Muslims that attend Catholic school have to attend Mass whether they like it or not.--[[User:EmpressG1973|EmpressG1973]] 17:01, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

I think the point is that Barack Hussein Obama was observing an islamic holy day when he is claiming to be Christian. It just does'nt add up to alot of people and should make Christians think twice about him. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Actually it was his '''school''' that was observing the holiday. When a child attends a school, they can't just choose which days they want to take off. Your argument is ridiculous.-- [[User:rkstiner|rkstiner]]

How is my point incorrect? You can nit-pick it all you want but Obama attended a muslim school and observed muslim holidays. Thats all there is to it. Take your liberal name-calling elsewhere. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Name calling?....where?[[User:Rkstiner|Rkstiner]]

:So a Jew who attends a public school in this country doesn't go to school on Christmas, so he is therefore observing a Christian holiday? Making him, I suppose, a Christian? Doesn't make sense. [[User:MichaelR|MichaelR]] 16:08, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

::You shouldn't have to defend it at all. Barack Hussein Obama is very likely a muslim there is strong evidence to suggest it. Since when is being a muslim such a bad thing? It's not, unless your running for President and try to lie about it. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

== Reversion Explained ==

We don't post a politician's self-serving claptrap. Obama catered to anti-patriotic donors to win the nomination. There's no real dispute about that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:Remember, Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy, and children read this website. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::What's your point? That children don't need to know he flip flopped on wearing a flag pin? [[User:TJason|TJason]] 15:39, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::The point is that children especially should be told the truth. Include the flip-flopping by all means, but also include his explanation for why he did flip-flop. This has more validity then stating "but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation." Adequate to whom? By what criteria is the inadequacy judged? If he had explained it by saying "it's none of your business", or did not offer an explanation, then certainly that would qualify as "without adequate explanation." Remember: Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:56, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::I agree that citing his explanation and then explaining why conservatives find it inadequate would be an improvement. I would make said improvement, but I am currently hard "at work". [[User:TJason|TJason]] 16:09, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

== Affirmative Action President ==

I reverted the removal of "affirmative action president" for now. Corey, can you explain why this is racist? If affirmative action isn't racist, why is describing someone as an "affirmative action president" racist? Is your problem with the description that it is racist? Or that it is untrue? I think these are two separate issues. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 10:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:This speaks to what I think is an enormous problem with affirmative action (no, I'm not a complete supporter), claiming that a minority only got a job because they are a minority. I think that claiming that Barack Obama's political success comes only from his being black is racist demagoguery, or at least rhetoric designed to incite racial tensions. I have no doubt that there are some people who support Obama only because of the color of his skin, just the same as there are those who oppose him only for the same reason. Also, I will not say that there isn't a desire by many people to see somebody other than white male in the White House. But this is not the ''only'' reason most of Obama's supporters have for supporting him, as the term "affirmative action president" suggests. He has political experience and he is a deft politician, which figures greatly in a political campaign. I would implore anybody who considers Obama to have no accomplishments to compare his life to that of our sitting president before 2000. Some time in office, a string of business failures, and questionable service in the Texas Air National Guard. Fortunately for G.W. Bush, his father is Bush 41. Bush supporters discuss his successes as his own doing. Claiming that Obama's are not his own because he is black sounds rather racist to me. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::George W. Bush was governor of Texas; some people consider that to be a political accomplishment. I think you will have to go pretty far back to find a candidate for President whose entire political career was two years as a Senator. In 1988 Dan Quayle was blasted for his lack of experience for a Vice Presidential candidate, and he had already served many more years in the Congress than Barack Obama has. Like it or not Obama was fasttracked and bypassed the usual protocols because of the color of his skin. Whether or not this is appropriate is left to each individual to decide. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 11:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::A governorship is certainly a political accomplishment, one which George W. Bush would probably have been unable to attain were it not for his father's name. There is hardly any information on the George W. Bush entry on this site pertaining to his life before his presidency, the details of which would likely lead many people to conclude that were George H.W. Bush not so well-connected his son would not be president. In contrast, the opening paragraph of Obama's entry uses his race to attack him politically. I find this hard to rationalize. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::There is not usually an understood litmus test for governor. Some people are longterm politicians, others are not. For instance Arnold held only minor political appointments before he became governor of California. But the Presidency has generally required proving yourself in some capacity. Bush was a well respected governor who received high marks. Carter, Clinton, and Reagan had all been governors. Someone running for President who has not successfully governed a state and has only been in Congress for 2 years is very out of the ordinary. Again, note what Quayle was put through and he was only a Vice Presidential candidate. That being said, I am not necessarily supporting the article in the form it has taken. I have not read it in quite some time, but if it is a leadoff then that would seem to be inappropriate. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:47, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::Obama's experience is fair game, and I agree that he has not had as much time in political office as the average candidate. I think that using race as an issue detracts from this fair and logical line of debate. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::I don't think that the term "affirmative action president" suggests that affirmative action is the '''only''' reason Obama is where he is. I think the term is supposed to denote that his being black is a '''major''' force behind his success. Also, I think the term brings to light that, historically, this is a first. No previous nominee has been the beneficiary of affirmative action in the way Obama has. At any rate, ''I'' won't revert the edit if you remove it again, since you've made your case and I am not willing to fight to keep it in. I suspect others might, though. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:37, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Where has he explicitly benefited from affirmative action programs? This is a "heads, I win, tails, you lose" situation. If he doesn't get into Harvard Law or win an election, it's because of lack of merit. If he succeeds, it's because the standards were lowered due to his race. This is an extremely dubious political argument. Attack him on his policies, voting record, character, or fitness to lead: fire as they bear! That's our process, and it's a good process. But these race arguments are petty, desperate, and drag our political discourse down to a despicable level. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::I am pretty sure that Harvard Law Review has an affirmative action policy, but I will have to check. Regardless, I think the term also covers "implicit" affirmative action that has benefited Obama (e.g. a white candidate with his experience would not be taken seriously). [[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:10, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::"Implicit" affirmative action seems to be in the realm of vagueness and speculation. I refer you to Conservapedia Commandment 1: "Everything you post must be true and verifiable." [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::::Like I said, I'm not really willing to fight over this. We are at least in agreement that this is a distraction from the real issue: his actual positions. I reverted the edit because I thought what was said in the edit comment should have been spelled out in the talk page. It has been. Therefore, if you want to remove the reference again, I won't revert it again.[[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::::I have no intention of perpetuating a pointless revert war, either, and I agree that discussion of the real issues suffer because of such statements. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Alleged" birth revert ==

Even the National Review doesn't dispute the [http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk= authenticity of Obama's birth certificate.] Why is Obama's birth information being censored by this website? [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:30, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::There is no censorship here. Removing any mention that there is doubt about the authenticity of his birth certificate is censorship, imho. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:34, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::However, the way rumor is so prominently injected into the article within the first five words is clear weasel-wording. A separate section regarding the issue would be more appropriate than saying that he was "allegedly" born somewhere, and I wouldn't oppose such a section. Seeing as how you usually hear the word "allegedly" on the news while watching a video of a perp walk, it is unnecessarily loaded language. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:42, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::And accusing senior CP members of "weasel-wording" isn't loaded? You should watch your step. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 12:46, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::We Should add "allegedly" to everything just to be fair.

:: We know many [[liberal]]s love [[deceit]], and the birth certificate posted by [[Obama]]'s campaign has obvious defects. Even its number is blotted out for unexplained reasons. There are still unanswered questions about his place and date of birth, and what is on his real certificate, which his campaign has not released. We provide the information about this and let the reader decide.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:12, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Then maybe the thing to do would be to dedicate a separate section to present the issue. It would be much clearer and provide more information than the status quo. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 14:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I have reverted another removal of the word "alleged" since there are still unanswered questions about his birth certificate. Is the consensus that this should be made into a new section? [[User:TJason|TJason]] 17:18, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::I would agree with a section. This entire article could do with a better layout and more sectioning. Our John McCain article is better in this regard - perhaps we could use this as a blueprint? [[User:DefenderofTrue|DefenderofTrue]] 17:38, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) We seem to be in agreement. I'll make a section tomorrow, under the "Published Criticism" section. I would like to add that I love it when people of different viewpoints can meet in the middle. Good night. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 23:44, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:I like the changes you have made. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:37, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

::(edit conflict) Thank you. As discussed, I added a section regarding the birth certificate controversy and removed "alleged" from the intro paragraph. I tried to make it as evenly written as I could. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:40, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

::Also, what is up with the tag at the beginning of the article? I don't know what this is used for, but it doesn't appear to be doing anything except make "span" the first word in the article. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:44, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

:::1. You're right- I scanned the diff and thought he removed the Daily Kos ref. 2. I don't know. I never noticed it before. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:46, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== We have a problem ==

Okay... to start things off I am deathly afraid of this man getting elected and think he would ruin our wonderful nation. I do think that the media is helping him and realize that he is basically "the chosen one." My conservative principles help me make all of those opinions. Heres the thing. This place exists because someone thought that wikipedia was biased and unfair... but honestly... some of this stuff borders on propaganda! For Pete's sake our job as conservatives is too tell the truth and expose things about him. This page is going too far. I'm embarrassed to know that my fellow conservatives wrote this! This page can still be dedicated to exposing the truth about "the chosen one." But we'll be SO much more effective if we do it properly and fairly. If you want to contact me its easier to do so at my wikipedia talk page of the same name. Thank you and lets try to do better please. [[User:Saksjn|Saksjn]] 15:32, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

: A true conservative would be appalled at Wikipedia and not contribute to their cause-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 20:39, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

== Hussein Obama's Birth Certificate Number ==

I copied this from the [[Talk:Main_Page#Obama_Born_In_U.S.A.|Main Page Talk section]] to here because you all might find it of interest. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:32, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

----
:[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Look at this photo], is this Barack Obama's birth certificate? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 23:44, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::It's interesting that they finally give the, so-called authentic, birth certificate number in this supposedly unfaked photo. It is '''151 1961 - 010641'''. The reason I bring this up, and I think the REAL reason this was masked, is because numerological analysis shows something very disturbing. If you add up the three sets of digits thus:<blockquote>151 + 1961 + 010641 = 12753</blockquote>and then add the individual digits of the result thus:<blockquote>1 + 2 + 7 + 5 + 3 = 18</blockquote>the final result, 18, is the product of three sixes (3 x 6 = 18). Three sixes, or [[666]], sort of speaks for itself. I just thought this was interesting. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:22, 23 August 2008 (EDT)
----

I think it's rather obvious that AdmiralNelson doesn't take this site seriously. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 20:51, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Does anyone? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 21:05, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:: I'm giving it a chance. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 21:14, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:::So am I. I new here and was hoping to find stuff that would challenge my beliefs, so far not much luck. [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 21:21, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Can I quote myself? '''I just thought this was interesting.''' For "seriousness" [[Special:Contributions/AdmiralNelson|I stand by my record]]. Feel free to check it out. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:29, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

==Lawsuit==
The guy filing the lawsuit doesn't dispute the fact that he he was born in Honolulu. He is disputing that Obama is a US citizen after he lived in Indonesia. So why does it say allegedly born still? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 19:08, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

: I think he does dispute it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

: ASchlafly is correct - Philip J. Berg is alleging that Barrack Obama forged his birth-certificate because he was not a Natural Born US citizen. [http://obamacrimes.com/ Berg vs Obama] --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 14:50, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dilution ==

Don't dilute the entry by referring to the silly text messaging stunt in the first paragraph.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

:Can I put it down in the Presidential Campaign section instead then? --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 10:49, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Requested change ==
Original text:
{{Cquote|On June 3rd, Barack Obama had received enough pledged delegates and the endorsement of superdelegates to be called the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party by the Democratic National Committee. The nomination became official when Hillary Clinton conceded on June 7th.}}
Requested new text:
{{Cquote|Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee on June 3rd after receiving a majority of pledged delegates and superdelegates. His only remaining primary opponent, [[Hillary Clinton]], conceded the race on June 7th. On August 23, Joe Biden was announced as Obama's vice-presidential nominee. Obama became the official Democratic nominee on August 27 at the Democratic National Convention, when Hillary Clinton's motion to end the roll call vote of the states and select Obama by acclamation was passed.}}
This more accurately describes what happened and updates the section with last week's events. --[[User:Ampersand|Ampersand]] 17:02, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
===Another===
[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=506483&oldid=505653 This link] should be commented out until [[Essay: The Special Interests Candidate| this abysmal essay]] is fixed. [[User talk:MargeryCampbell|Marge]] 17:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

==Pearl Harbor issue==

The entire section regarding his comments about Pearl Harbor has got to go. There is no reason to imply that someone leaving an 's' off the word 'bomb' (''bomb'''s''''' did fall on Pearl Harbor, that much is true, right?) means they ignore or disdain American history. I'm guessing the McCain article makes no immediate mention of his confusion over the borders of Iran, or his lack of knowledge about the situation in Iraq, illustrated by the fact that he mixed up the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. Do either of those things make sense? NO! I'm sure John McCain knows what he's talking about, and I'm sure he's not confused about the issues at hand. Obviously, which course of action he chooses to follow is eternally and rightly up for debate, and if we want to highlight that debate about Obama, then that's fine. But it's ridiculous - nay, ridicule-worthy - to say that Obama leaving out an 's' means he thinks Pearl Harbor was nuked. That's so stupid it turns neurons into Pop Rocks. [[User:OtherSide|OtherSide]] 19:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

No, it should stay, the man's an idiot, clearly. Also - I added the "any educated person would know" bit, which Jareddr just removed. But I'd point out that many of the younger generation ''don't'' know that it wasn't one bomb. I've even spoken to young folk who confuse Pearl Harbor with Hiroshima, and think that the nuclear bomb was dropped on Pearl Harbor! It's remarkable how uneducated some of today's public-school educated youth are. Also, people from foreign countries may not know the context of Obama's gaffe. Perhaps that point might be allowed back in - Jareddr, if you want to re-word it yourself maybe? I think it's kind of important, the stupidity of his point might be missed otherwise. [[User:RobCross|RobCross]] 14:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:Then state something to the effect of, "In actuality, multiple bombs were dropped on Pearl Harbor during the Japanese mission." You didn't say anything about being foreign-educated, only "any educated person..." If you want to place it in context using my above phrasing, go ahead. But the entire section has already been set up to switch verbal miscues for "idiocy" so no need to pile on, as they say.

:Besides, you don't see anything on McCain's pages about him "not knowing" the difference between Sunni and Shiite, referencing Czechoslovakia (a now defunct country), or calling Putin the President of Germany.--[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 14:58, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:OK, I'l do that then Jareddr, thanks for the suggestion. As to the McCain entry, I don't think we need to highlight those issues, they're a distraction. [[User:RobCross|RobCross]] 15:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::True, we don't want to confuse the readers about the candidate storylines. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:11, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::The entry should be removed, since McCain failed to state how many homes he owns is no where to be seen on the McCain article. [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 15:43, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::::Don't be ridiculous, Samuel. Many everyday Americans have trouble remembering how many homes they own. Sometimes they own a home, but it's in someone else's name, or it's just a vacation lodge, or it's a few homes on one piece of property. Ask people on the street how many homes they own, and I guarantee very few will answer! --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::::: McCain isn't running to be a real estate agent for the country.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:52, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::True, but he spoke about real estate business, and it's undeniably a large factor in the economy, which is a current problem. Compare that to Obama and 60 years ago? Oh Please. Thanks for the sarcasm Jared. :P [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 16:39, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::: Obama isn't running to be a history teacher for the country either, though. One could argue that if you're going to enforce a populist message, and cast yourself as an "everyman" and your opponent as "elite", you should be able to answer how many homes you have on command. We're not looking for net value, just a (presumably) single-digit number. I'm not aware of any "everyman" that forgets that number, but I'm sure some "elite" may forget. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 16:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::: Obama can try that next, Samuel: "Who cares about what happened at Pearl Harbor? That was 60 years ago!!!" Good luck to him and his supporters with that absurd approach.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:12, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::What's more absurd is putting words in my mouth (as well as Obama's, apparently?), as if I were trying to say that I didn't care about Pearl Harbor. I said no such thing. I was comparing something that happened over 60 years ago to present time in relevance to gaffe, nothing more and nothing less, in comparison to Obama's article and McCain's. [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 19:29, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::::: Obama's gaffe was about an essential element of American history that defines our country; McCain's was not. We do expect presidents to know important aspects of American history. We really do. We don't care if they can tell you how wealthy they are, or how many houses they own.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:35, 5 September 2008 (EDT)--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:35, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::::::And yet McCain's belief in an Iraq/Pakistan border - and his belief that a country named "Czechoslovakia" still exists - shows how out of touch he may be with the issues that matter NOW.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 19:42, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:I won't compare the semantics of how you measure the impact and importance of a slip-up, but it ''is'' rather telling that the Obama article prominently features such a slip-up while the McCain article apparently doesn't. This doesn't compute. Both of them have had weird moments ("President Putin of Germany", anybody?), and in fact, everybody has slip-ups. Bushisms, anybody? So why do we have to pick on Obama's mistakes alone?
:An encyclopedia needs consistent standards. Entries about similar topics should be comparable. They should be similar in style. They should follow the same intuitive standards.
:Overall, the McCain article looks like a very good example of how such an entry should look like (kudos to those who made it that way), and the Obama article is a prime example of something that would look great on some obvious right-wing propaganda site, but ''not'' in an encyclopedia. The part before the TOC should be condensed and moved to another part of the article. The intro section (the part before the TOC) is supposed to be an ''intro''. It should briefly sum up who he is and what he does, period. Then come biography sections, then his political stuff, then the Presidential campaign. And THERE you should feature the notable events or slip-ups. I'm most definitely no Obama supporter, but when comparing the McCain and Obama articles, you don't have to do a deep analysis to figure out that this site is way more political activism than encyclopedia, and I think that should change. --[[User:DirkB|DirkB]] 20:22, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

Remember when George H. W. Bush got the date wrong for Pearl Harbor by months? And he's a WWII veteran! 'Bomb' was a slip of the tongue, nothing more. [[User:CraigC|CraigC]] 21:14, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

== Citation Needed ==

The first sentence in the second paragraph about Barack Obama reads this:
Obama almost always reads from prepared text on a teleprompter and rarely allows tough questions.

It then gives the citation down at the bottom, which reads this:
After one debate against Hillary Clinton in Philadelphia, the Obama campaign announced that the questions were too difficult and that Obama would not agree to future debates with her.

I don't think that's a real citation. Does a link not need to be provided? Just like anybody can type anything on the main page, anybody can type anything as the citation too. I would suggest either finding legitimate proof to this claim, or just take it down.

== Tone of the article on Obama ==

The whole tone of this article on Barack Obama is appalling. It is poorly written, inaccurate, misleading, insulting and thoroughly vile. I would be ashamed to publish such contemptible stuff.

: That's your first -- and only -- contribution here. Hope you can do better than that!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:17, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

== Tone of the article on Obama ==

I see someone is watching the Obama talk page like a hawk. I stand by my previous remarks and hope to be adding many more in the near future.

: Good for you. And my hope is that you'll have better contributions to this site than what you've done so far.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:25, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I have to say that to a foreigner, this article reads like one-sided drivel. Some of it is so blatantly ridiculous that it gives a negative impression of the people writing it, not Obama. Surely you should be attacking him over his policies rather than a non-existent issue over where he was born or some completely pathetic nonsense about him taking holidays at the same time as other kids in his school. (Amazing but true: Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist children in Britain take holidays at Christmas and Easter; they don't volunteer for extra classes on those days.) This article reads as though you've given up all hope of defeating him on political grounds and are just falling back on rather silly personal remarks. Surely you can do better than that! (Kindly read that as constructive criticism.) [[User:Googly|Googly]] 19:45, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

== I'm noticing a very disturbing pattern... ==

# (cur) (last) 15:45, 8 September 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (59,707 bytes) (Reverted edits by Lodovico (Talk); changed back to last version by Ampersand) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 15:42, 8 September 2008 Lodovico (Talk | contribs) m (59,972 bytes) (Corrected information of misinterpretation) (undo)

Alright, so notice that Lodovico makes an edit, and adds sufficient reasoning for his edit in the apt column. Notice then that Andrew changes it, and doesn't even look to the talk page to provide ANY reasoning.

# (cur) (last) 23:55, 6 September 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (58,039 bytes) (Reverted edits by Chippeterson (Talk); changed back to last version by AliceBG) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 23:52, 6 September 2008 Chippeterson (Talk | contribs) (58,095 bytes) (→Senate career) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 14:19, 6 September 2008 Chippeterson (Talk | contribs) (58,052 bytes) (I don't like Obama anymore then ayone else on Conservapedia, but come on. The two pictures should be reversed) (undo)

Here again we have a very reasonable edit, that it reverted without adequate explanation.

# (cur) (last) 14:36, 25 August 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (57,388 bytes) (Reverted edits by Impm (Talk); changed back to last version by Aschlafly) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 14:35, 25 August 2008 Impm (Talk | contribs) (57,106 bytes) (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html He was born in Hawaii unequivocally.) (undo)

Impm makes what appears to be a reasonable edit, and Andrew changes it again.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Barack_Obama#Citation_Needed <--- Here is another example; everyone is discussing the pertinent issue, including Andrew, but then drops out of the picture and: (cur) (last) 10:09, 27 August 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) (57,862 bytes) (restored material deleted by liberal censorship) (undo)

I'm just wondering, but why is it we have to discuss changes we want to make whenever an edit conflict arises, but Andrew doesn't? This makes it essentially impossible to edit any article that Andrew has become party to because you can never know which of your edits will be acceptable or not.

Then there is this: http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Barack_Obama#Affirmative_Action_President

Despite the lack as a citation for the statement that caused that particular talk-page topic to manifest, and the lack-of-response from Andrew, any time this statement is changed Andrew swoops in and reverts it.

Am I alone in seeing this? Do I see a ghost ruffling the leafs or is it simply just the wind?[[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 19:51, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
:I've noticed it too, but I didn't think asking him about it would change anything. Especially on the "affirmative action president" thing. --[[User:Ampersand|Ampersand]] 23:15, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

::This is inane. It's been more at least a day now and we haven't even gotten a one sentence response yet; just more reverted edits without adequate explanation. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 18:28, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

::Welcome to conservapedia. Often if you attempt to question the work of ASchlafly, he will simply ignore you. --[[User:AndrasK|AndrasK]] 18:33, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

::Jirby, be concise in your comments. This site isn't a liberal blog where people talk, talk, talk without saying anything. Reversions do not have a place for summarizing the reason in the wiki software. Also, people who only criticize conservatives without criticizing the liberal vandals lack credibility.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:43, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:::So the best you can do... is complain that my words are too big and my sentences are too long? And here I was trying my best not to mischaracterize you. Shame on me! It is also clearly evident that revisions do not have a comment box, but how does that keep you from posting your reasons for consistently reverting factual edits here? It doesn't. My concern also isn't with liberal/conservative/anarchist vandals because they're freaking obvious and will be dealt with without my input (unless in the case of the uppity negro comment from before) they have fallen under the radar of authority and it behooves me to say something. Now stop trying to shift this in a way as if it is MY fault for trying to make you accountable as per your own rules. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 18:49, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:::: Jirby, your above rant illustrates my point. I'm moving on and request that you be substantive and concise in the future.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:53, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

==Large repetitions!==
The "Published Criticism" section repeats, aside from a couple of sentances, almost word for word the introduction. This needs changing as it looks silly to have repetitions so I am going to leave this comment to see if there is any response and wait 48 hours and then go to work on fixing it. [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 21:17, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

: Fine, but don't remove information from the introduction. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:18, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

::I'll only remove the double-ups from the lower section. Thanks for the quick response! [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 21:20, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

== Marxist/redistrubution of wealth line ==

Was just trying to [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=512956&oldid=512942 fix my spelling error], not trying to revert Andy. --[[User:GunsandaBible|GunsandaBible]].

=="My Muslim Faith" quote==
I've seen the video of this quote and it is taken totally out of context. What Obama is saying is that JOhn McCain has not accused him of being a secret muslim. Does anyone really believe that this is Obama mistakenly revealing that he is a muslim? Anyone who has seen the video can't seriously believe that this is the case. This quote should be removed before people start taking it seriously. [[User:Billgates3|Billgates3]]

:Can someone explain why you think it would be such a big deal if Barack Obama were actually Muslim? (Leaving aside for the moment the lack of any evidence that he ever has been a Muslim.) I thought you guys in the USA believed in separation of religion and the state, so why does it matter what religion, if any, the President happens to follow? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 20:13, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

:: As a Democrat who will be voting for Obama, I think (and I really hope that this is the general consensus) that the main issue would be that he's lied. I'd like to think that somebody saying up front that they were a Muslim wouldn't be a reason to vote against them if they're wholly qualified otherwise, but IF it turns out that somebody can prove that he really is a Muslim (I highly doubt anything like that can turn up, since everything out there now is just gossip), then he'll be caught in a BIG lie that would kill his credibility with everything. [[User:Mk|Mk]] 15:12, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

== Muslim & Catholic holidays ==

Why on earth are CP people bothered about the fact that Obama had holidays for Muslim festivals when he went to school in a Muslim country? Muslim (and Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish and Zoroastrian) children take days off school for Christian holidays in the UK without society collapsing. Honestly, some of the stuff on this page is just weird. Why on earth don't you guys concentrate on his policies (or lack of any) instead of getting so worked up about personal matters which are complete non-issues? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 19:27, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

:It is a matter of honesty which Obama will not address. America has never elected somebody with such a secret history as Barack hides from. Criticize CP all you want, I don't expect you to last here that long. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 21:12, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

::Err... why not, exactly? What's the problem with suggesting that politically-active people in the USA should concentrate on politics, not on minor details (or utterly trivial ones, in this case) of a candidate's personal life? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 12:54, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== Unreliable sourcing and references ==

The section on Obama's "secrecy" cites only a blog which gives no sources. Unless there are complaints or offers to better source it, I will remove this section or shorten it.

The section on Obama's middle name is also poorly sourced. It is claimed that "most" people change their names when they undergo a religious conversion. The cite refers to two people who converted to Christianity and then changed their names. "For example" can never be used to prove "most". Unless someone offers a statistic backing up the "most" claim, I will change it to "some". Additionally, the citation given for the meaning of "Hussein" is to a names list on about.com. There is no way this can be considered authoritative, and in any case the alternate meaning ("handsome") should also be reported lest we be accused of fearmongering.

Finally, I fail to see how "there are few atheists in Kenya" could possibly be seen as an argument against Obama's father being nonreligious. There are also few admirals in the US; does this mean McCain's father wasn't an admiral? [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:22, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

::Seeing no objection on the talk page or attempts to correct the faulty information during the last 24 hours or so, I've gone ahead and made the edits. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:39, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::Sorry, wholesale deletion of content, some which has been discussed on the talk page, is inappropriate at your rank of contributions.-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 15:48, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Surprise, surprise. Everything Egen deleted was either unsourced or irrelevant.--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 19:29, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:::This "content" is worthless and factually inaccurate in a way that's absolutely obvious to anyone reading it. The page is already too long and having such nonsense on the page is a severe detriment to our credibility. No one even attempted to respond to my reasoning and I gave ample time to allow disagreements. If ANYONE can provide reliable evidence that "most" people change their name when they convert, that Obama's father was not an atheist, and that Hussein means "descendent of the prophet Muhammad" (a baby names site is not reliable evidence) then please do so. (The last statement is, in fact, false. In Arabic, you would never simply refer to any descendant of Muhammad as "Hussein". "Hussein" does not mean "descendant of Muhammad" any more than James means "brother of Jesus.") [[User:Egen|Egen]] 19:26, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

==Senate career==
HelpJazz, the stat is no good. It is an attempt at obfusication, it's not 1 billion, it is only 18%, gee. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 23:54, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
:Uh, it say right in the article "$936 million". The 18% figure only adds to the figure, it takes away nothing. Obama has a lifetime score of 18%, which is far below failing and far below the Republican average. Plus, if you really thought that the 18% figure was obsfucation (which, I'll reiterate, doesn't make any sense) then why did you take away the scale, which gives meaning to the number? If I said that Barack Obama scored a 397 on a liberalness test, you would want to know what that score means, no? And you would want to know how he compares to other liberals, right? You wouldn't say "he scored 397 on a liberalness test -- that's just under 400!" because that doesn't add anything to the article. Your "500k/day" stat ''does'' add to the article. Even though there's nothing to compare it to, it's still a nice number that hits home how big almost a billion is. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:44, 22 September 2008 (EDT) PS: Sorry to keep you waiting, editing cut off early last night, and wasn't on this morning before I went to work.

==Muslim==

I know this has been talked about a lot here, but i would like for someone to prove to me byond a reasonable doubt that Obama is a muslim. Otherwise, i don't think we should have him in the 'muslims' category. so, can someone provide irrefutable proof that Barack Obama is a practicing muslim?
:Reasonable doubt is enough, or no article would have categories. [[User:Devout|Devout]] 15:16, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
::based on that logic i could say McCain is ineligible to be US President due to his birth in the Panama Canal Zone due to the US returning it. [[User:Xapdal5|Xapdal5]] 23:08, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

My parents and pastor always taught me not to lie, so when I heard there was a website that dealt more fairly with intelligent design and creationism than most, I wanted to check it out. I was quite upset to find a site filled with such dishonesty, double-standards, and vitriol. I don't recall that part of my bible that says 'don't lie unless it's about someone of the rival political party.' [[User:Booster|Booster]] 17:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Booster, you are not looking at this issue properly. It is not a matter of party. Obama is a Muslim. The United States is, by tradition, a Christin nation. As Devout notes, there is enough reasonable doubt that no true Christian can vote for him.--[[User:Saxplayer|Saxplayer]] 17:56, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

::::But he's NOT a Muslim. Misspeaking once or twice doesn't make you a Muslim. Not wearing a flag-pin doesn't make you a Muslim. A funny name doesn't make you a Muslim. My middle name is Caesar and I don't worship Zeus. If the man was a Muslim, there would be real evidence, unless we contend that he hides under the blanket at night and reads the Koran by flashlight. I'm not going to vote for the man because I fundamentally disagree with many of his policies, not because of untruths posted about his religion. [[User:Booster|Booster]] 22:29, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

::::You say he's a Muslim? Heck, I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that's all the proof I need!--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 18:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

I am proud muslim but not from united states. Obama is very good but not muslim. That is ok. Also, I read article and it say that Obama not change his name. Around me, muslims convert to jesus but do not change their names. I will change article if that is ok. [[User:SyedO|SyedO]] 18:06, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

The issue is that the United States is a Christian Nation. We are one nation under God, not mohammad or allah. That probably offends liberals, but it's the truth. [[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

:Not that it matters, because Obama is not a Muslim unless anyone can provide any actual evidence to suggest that he is. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 16:32, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

The US is not a Christian nation. It clearly states in the constitution that church and state are separate. while there might be christian influences it does not mean we are a christian nation. [[User:Xapdal5|Xapdal5]] 23:14, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I have yet to see conclusive evidense that he is a muslim. i am removing him from that category.

: Perhaps we should have a category called "Suspected Muslims" or "Crypto-Muslims"? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:25, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== What does "alleged" mean ==

"Does it mean he may have been born somewhere else," or that "his live birth is contested?" "Is it supposed to mean he may have been hatched?" Then he'd be evolved, right libs? Some people on here are so dumb it frightening. [[User:LarryHapp|LarryHapp]] 15:42, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Allegations of Homosexuality & Drug Use ==

I'm surprised that this article did not mention the compelling allegations of homosexuality and drug-abuse. One witness (a former homosexual called Larry Sinclair) confessed in great detail an event in which he consumed cocaine and performed oral-sex on Obama (this was a few years before he became a senator).

This issue has been the subject of at least two court-cases - both were dismissed on technicalities, conveniently allowing Mr. Obama to avoid tackling the substantive issue.

Despite being repeatedly asked to deny or even comment about these allegations Team-Obama has remained utterly silent. Surely (as Mr. Sinclair stated) - if somebody made an allegation which was incorrect you'd deny it or at least tell your side of the story. Obama's silence on this issue (as so many others) is worthy of suspicion. With the permission of my fellow Conservapedia users I'd like to add a summaary of these alegations to the article. --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:12, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

:He's already admitted to cocaine use in one of his books (''Dreams from my Father'', I think.)--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 22:15, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
::Any nutball can allege anything. Some things are below notice. [[User:CraigC|CraigC]] 08:34, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::That is true, however Larry Sinclair has been vetted by a great many conservative journalists. His story has yet to be disproven, and furthermore he has come under a great deal of attack by Joe Biden's people. Given that Sinclair's story is merely corroborating something that Obama has already admitted, why exclude it from what ought to be an authoritative article? Obama supporters have called Sinclar a nut (and much worse), but none of them have disproven his allegations? Ask yourself - why is it that Obama has not attempted to disprove that he had a homosexual liason and took crack-cocaine with Mr. Sinclair that night? His silence on the topic does not make any sense. --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 08:40, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

::: No, not everyone bothers to deny every allegation. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 09:58, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I agree, not everybody bothers to deny everything, for example if I accused you of being an "alien from outer-space" or something entirely preposterous then you might be right to disregard my comments. On the other hand Sinclair has only accused Obama of things which he has partly confessed to. Regarding drug-taking, Obama confessed that he had tried drugs as a young man but had given up. Sinclair contends that he witnessed Obama using drugs relatively recently.

:: Your point would be entirely relevant to this case if the Obama people were simply ignoring Sinclair, however as anybody who has watched this story unfold can see Obama's people have done anything but ignore Sinclair. In fact, he was the victim of a very organized campaign to discredit him. Biden's people arranged for him to be arrested during one of his press conferences (you can see it on Youtube if you do not believe me).

:: This article has presented a great deal of evidence that Mr. Obama can be sneaky and deceptive. We know that America harbors a great deal of drug-users and homosexuals. Why do you believe that somebody who faked a legal document (like a Birth Certificate) might be incapable of other acts of immorality? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:21, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== A compromise for place of birth issues? ==

Rather than simply state that he was allegedly born in a state of the USA, how about we outline the various conflicting theories regarding his place of birth, the primary evidence of each of those theories and the principle backers of each of those theories. That way we can be fair and balanced with regards to this issue? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:30, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== "Pokiston"????? ==

What's this nonsense on the News section of the Main Page about a '''Muslim''' pronounciation of Pakistan as 'Pokiston'? For one thing, there's no such thing as a Muslim pronounciation of anything - a Muslim from Glasgow sounds Scottish, a Muslim from Madras sounds South Indian. For another, the Pakistani pronounciation of Pakistan is 'Paakistaan' - long aa's (aaah). Please delete this item from the News - it just makes CP look silly. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 20:51, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: I don't think what you said is true. Arabic is the language of the Koran, having a Muslim pronunciations, and "Pakistan" is a word created by Muslims, having a Muslim pronunciation. There is Muslim pronunciation used by Obama and a very different English pronunciation used by most Americans.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::: The pronounciation of the word as used in India and Pakistan - by Hindus, Muslims, Christians and everyone else - is Paakistaan. That would also be an transliteration of the word into English. It's now also much the most common pronounciation in the UK; before about 1970 in the UK, both "a"s were pronounced as the short, semi-closed "a" as in cat, hat, fat, etc, but it's changed to become closer to the Indian/Pakistani pronounciation. I daresay the "cat/hat/fat" vowel sound might still be used "by most Americans" (to quote you) but that isn't the usage in India, Pakistan or the UK. I have no idea how Obama says Pakistan but there's no more a Muslim pronounciation of the word than there is a Hindu or Christian one. In any case, Pakistan is an Urdu word, not an Arabic one. It makes no more sense to say that 'Pakistan' is an Arabic word than to say that 'automobile' is a Greek word. And finally, why does this matter to you? [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 20:32, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Andy- just because Arabic is the language of the Koran, that doesn't mean that there is such a thing as "Muslim pronounciations." In this last statement, you've conflated religion ("Muslim pronounciation"), linguistic groups ("Arabic") and nationalities ("Pakistan" and "English pronounciation used by most Americans.") They are all different, and all complex. A French-speaking Algerian isn't going to pronounce "Pakistan" the same way as an Arabic-speaking Sudanese or an Indonesian. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:03, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, right, an American doesn't pronounce Pakistan the way that Muslims educated in Indonesia do, which underscores the point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:14, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::: But isn't Obama an American? --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 16:15, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::He ''claims'' to be. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 16:20, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::I know LOTS of Americans who use the pronounciation in question. And Brits, too. Look at it this way: if the link between the language of the Koran and the billion or so Muslims scattered across the globe means that there is such a thing as "Muslim pronounciation," does that mean that the world's Christians--Swedes, Phillipinos, Americans, Candians, Irish, Brazilians, French, Germans, all share "Christian pronounciations" that can be traced back to Hebrew, Aramaic and ancient Greek? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:18, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::::::Quite correct, AliceBG. A Christian from South India doesn't sounds like a Christian from Scotland and a Muslim from Scotland doesn't sound like a Muslim from South India. Putting stuff like this "Pokiston" issue on CP's front page gives the impression that Aschafly and his colleagues have no serious issues with which to attack Obama and are forced to resort to personal trivia of the silliest kind. I really don't understand why Aschafly & friends don't focus on the politics. This is very peculiar to people outside the USA. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 14:34, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Liberals protest here too much to the observation that Obama uses the Muslim pronunciation of Pakistan rather than the virtually universal American pronunciation. But nothing in the liberal protests explains the clear difference in a satisfactory manner.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:40, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Actually, many of the protests have pointed out clearly that your assertion is based on a mistaken conflation between religion and linguistic groups, have pointed to the fact that Muslims from different language groups pronounce words differently, and have pointed out that the notion of "Christian pronounciation" would obviously be an impossible phenomenon to talk about. i'd repeat myself, but I'd rather go back to improving your encyclopedia for you. Asalaam Aleikum.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:47, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Aschafly, why is pointing out an instance where CP is talking nonsense 'liberal'? [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 16:14, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

This is just ridiculous. What is a "Muslim pronunciation?" Muslims everywhere pronounce words and names differently. If anything, an "Arabic pronunciation" might exist, but that is debatable. And don't give me the crap about that because Arabic is the language of the Koran, everyone who uses an Arabic pronunciation is Muslim. Arab Christians around the world speak Arabic. Plus, Arabic was being spoken way before Islam cam around. The name of the country should be pronounced the way it actually sounds, as dictated by the natives. Iraq is not "eye-rack," it is pronounced Irok. The fact that Obama pronounces Pakistan properly just shows that he is attentive to the culture and language of the country, (a key ally that we are in danger of losing, by the way), not that he is a Muslim. Even if there were some kind of valid point in the "Pokiston" argument, which there is most definitely not, it would be minuscule considering the broader scale of things. This whole section has just got to go.

: You protest too much. There is a common American pronunciation of "Pakistan", but Obama uses the different pronunciation he either learned while attending a Muslim grade school, or heard from his closest advisers over the past 20 years. It's informative to point that out, whether you think he's "correct" or not. Pronunciations can be illustrative of one's culture and beliefs. It suggests the pronunciation used by one's teachers and advisers.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:37, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Notice that you didn't address any of the actual points I made. I say "Pokistan." I avoid saying "eye-rack." Am I a Muslim? And what is an "American" pronunciation? As far as I know, there is no "American" way of saying anything. Do you mean an English pronunciation? I am simply baffled by some of the things people say on this site.

== Section headings ==

This is a long article with a large variety of sub-topics. I've inserted a half-dozen section headings that improve readability and organization. While it might be a good idea to think about re-organizing the sections and moving particular facts into different sections, I really think the piece needs to be broken up like this--plus it makes it more effective, acting as a catalogue of important questions and criticisms.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:51, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

: The greatest insights are going on the first screen page, period.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:58, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Fine--why undo the section headings, then? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:59, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::I think I see the problem - when a section heading is inserted higher up, the contents block, which is rather large, takes up most of the first screen. However, if you hit the "hide" button on the contents block, it takes up very little space and the insights are on the first screen page. It seems to be a "sticky" hide also, as it continues to be hidden when I re-load the page. I hope this helps. Like [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]], I'm just attempting to improve readability by inserting section headings. I do not want to remove any insights, or hide any. I believe section headings actually make it easier for the reader to glance over the many areas of concern (in the contents block), and go quickly to their area of interest, whilst still remaining aware of the other topics presented. They will also help editors to put their information in the correct section, thus minimizing problems with redundant information and making the whole article easier to read. (Right now, some of it kind of jumps around.) I am also open to other solutions to the problems that a long article presents. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 23:14, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Oh, i see the problem too. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:15, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
== HSMOM ==

A lot of the stuff under the "Islam" section heading has nothing to do with Islam, but Schlafly won't let anyone put it in a reasonable order. Good luck with that. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:07, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:Told you. He won't listen.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:09, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::There should be a way to solve this. You can force the TOC to not show up and then manually add it some where else. I can't remember how to do it off the top of my head, but I'll see if I can poke around and remember how. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 12:43, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Ok, as dirty as I feel for putting "his muslim faith" higher up than his birth, hopefully this should solve the problem. Now the Muslim insights are on the first page, and they are sectioned off for better flow. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 12:54, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

I fail to see how Obama's pronunciation of "Pakistan" has anything to do with his religion. And I don't care that he didn't change his middle name. Maybe he does have muslim beliefs, but these things would have nothing to do with it. There has to be fewer illogical statements here to be respectable; I thought the point of this page was to get away from the bias of wikipedia. Don't make conservatives look bad. Logic, facts, and history are on the conservative's side - use them.

==Professor?==

In attempting to organize the article yesterday, I came across two different sections on Obama's job at the University of Chicago. They seem to contradict each other. Here they are:
* Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago; in fact, he held the position of "Senior Lecturer."<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> <ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> For most of his time there he was regarded by the university as a professor.<ref>Obama was on the faculty at the University of Chicago from 1992 to 2004.[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>
*He was "Senior Lecturer in the Law", which is not a professor-level position, at the [[University of Chicago]] Law School as of 2004<ref>http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml</ref> and is no longer active at the school.<ref>http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama</ref>
<references/>
To sort this out, I looked at the references provided. Here's what they said:
* ''"I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution," Obama told an audience at a campaign fundraiser. ... Responding to Obama's comments, Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, said, "Senator Obama needs to understand that at this level words matter and he will be scrutinized." Ronayne pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. The University of Chicago lists him as a senior lecturer on leave.''<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref> So in this reference, an AP story in the San Francisco Chronicle, we have evidence that Obama has indeed called himself a law professor, and a quote from an RNC spokesman saying he was not.
* This reference <ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> is to a chat board. It mostly lists several references, including the article above and the University of Chicago's ''Statement Regarding Barack Obama''.
* The next two references are repeats of the first two.
* The next is the University of Chicago's ''Statement Regarding Barack Obama''.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> It states: ''The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer." From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.'' It seems that he was an adjunct from '92 to '96, but after that, as a Senior Lecturer, he was considered a professor.
* The next reference is a news article on UChicago's site from '04. It uses the title of Senior Lecturer to describe Obama, which confirms that he was indeed at that time a Senior Lecturer. <ref>[http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml]</ref>
<references/>
All of the references seem to agree that Obama was a Senior Lecturer, and that he was not full-time. The RNC spokesman said that Obama was "only a Senior Lecturer and not a full professor". UofC said "Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track". I think we should sum all this up by including something along the lines of the following:
*Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago.<ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref> He held the position of Lecturer, an adjunct position, from 1992 to 1996.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> He held the position of Senior Lecturer from 1996 until his election to the senate in 2004.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, has pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. <ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref>The University states that Senior Lecturers are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure track.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>
<references/>
--[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 15:36, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

== Great-uncle ==

Please could someone explain why it matters that Obama's great-uncle liberated Buchenwald rather than Auschwitz? [Stuff not about B.O. deleted] Really, fellow CP people, sometimes you have to stop nit-picking and get a life. Surely there are political issues you can attack the man on? Why are you fussing about precisely which Nazi concentration camp his great-uncle helped to liberate. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 18:25, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

::It not that he was wrong about his uncle, its that he used it as a politics tool. Like how he says about 57 states. He doesnt think or research about what he says. Do we want a president that makes that many slips? [[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

::: Well, I'd say he isn't the first American politician (or British one, come to that) not to be 100% careful about what he says on every single occasion. How about your ''current'' President?! [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 18:33, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

:::: The problem is one of honesty, not harmless slips. The gaffes reveal a real Obama that is being denied by himself and his supporters. Obama's gaffes are analogous to a racist gaffe, which of course no liberal would ignore if uttered by an opponent.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:36, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

::::: My head is spinning... Thanks, anyway, for not putting that particularly unpleasant slur back on your page about B.O. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 16:17, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

==Birth certificate edit==
The word "alleged" will stay for now, and here's why: the reference used for the certificate links to a pic of what is claimed to be Obama's, which is not the original. What is there is what could be called a "certified official copy" from the Department of Vital Statistics in Hawaii, which means that someone went to the filed originals and started typing on the copy sheet what he/she saw. Since there is a little war brewing over whether or not Obama was actualy born there, I think it's reasonable to ask for A) a copy of what a Hawaiian birth certificate looked like in 1960; and B) a Xerox copy of Obama's birth certificate as it appears in the files, and NOT as the certified copy that we are seeing now. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:04, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to revert my stance on it. Certain federal laws state that if a person is born to an American citizen in another country, that baby is an American citizen as well (there is such a document as a State Department birth certificate). Unless it is proven that the Hawaiian birth certificate is a fake, I think this website should just say that he was born there and leave it at that. It's just not much of an issue when there are more serious ones to concentrate on (Bill Ayers, ACORN, his Marxism, etc). [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 14:11, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

== sex ed for kindergartners? ==

Why do I keep hearing about Obama wanting sex ed for kindergartners? It is appalling to think that the next president of the united states might actually teach sex education to 5 year old's.

Answer: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

== Disgusted Conservative ==

I've voted Republican in every election since 1960, but I'm absolutely disgusted by this page.

What happened to the dignity of our party under Goldwater and Reagan? This "encyclopedia" page is just one long rant.

Are there any real conservatives out there willing to present objective, factual criticism of Obama? God knows there are enough valid arguments to make. Why are we channeling Michael Savage rather than William Buckley? Currently this page makes me cry for my party.

:Sounds like disgusted conservative is voting for BO. I happen to think it is an accurate account of a man that is dishonest. Where will you get the real picture about about if not here? Are you disgusted by Wikipedias article? How about the coverage on MSNBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, PBS, LATimes, WaPo, NYT, Google, The Guardian. Why not be mad and except that the majority of America is being fooled? Why not be mad at someone as disgusting as BO, actually has a real chance to take the Presidency and doesn't deserve it IN THE LEAST? Reagan is rolling over in his grave and so all the Founders.--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 09:54, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Voting Republican again this year. I know you're mad about what's going on, but it shows throughout the page. An encyclopedia can't be written from an angry point of view. Let me be specific:

1) "Obama and Elitism" plus "Obama and Islam" are not valid main introductory sections. Start with his early life.

2) His birth certificate gets its own section but his healthcare and tax plans don't? Focus on what's really important.

3) The "Insights" section is just a list of criticisms and belongs under a "Criticism" section. Categorize corectly.

4) Off-topic side-swipes: "He became a member of the Harvard Law Review, which uses racial quotas, in 1989". Why is "which uses racial quotas" in there? If it was a reason that he was chosen, say that. If it wasn't leave it out.

5) Unsubstantiated claims: "Obama's campaign has been financed largely by leftist donors opposed to the war and to the American military in general." Citation definitely needed.

You have several good sections in here: "Senate career", "Foreign policy experience", "Published criticism", "Religious affiliations". These are high-quality and reflect well on Conservapedia. The others do not.

See the reply from hsmom below as the kind of constructive, factual accuracy this page needs.

::This sounds like you're standard liberal bellyaching. The fact is that no real conservative Christian can vote for this man.

:::??!?! Trying to hold this article to some kind of standard is bellyaching? Would you like to address any of my points?

::::Your points is liberal talking points. The fact is that Barack Hussein Obama wants to talk with Iran without predeterminations, flip flops, and is close friends to an unrepentive TERRORIST. What more can you know?
:::::Trying to shift the focus on an ''encyclopedia page'' about a presidential candidate from hypothetical statements (his possible Islamic faith) and trivial matters (his birth certificate), to his actual stance on the issues is liberal bellyaching? If anything, we should be casting aside these trivial circumstances as beneath us and take the time to dissect each of his stances on the actual issues. That's what a real, dignified Conservative would do. Relying on ridiculous tactics such as these is asinine and cowardly. --[[User:FrankincenseMonster|FrankincenseMonster]] 16:21, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

==Nation of Islam==
''Obama's pastor of twenty-years, Rev. Wright, was originally a member with the Nation of Islam (likely always has been, see [[taqiyya]])'' Let's be careful not to confuse the Nation of Islam with the traditional Muslim faith - they are two quite different things. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 10:10, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

==57 Islamic states==

I attempted to make this article better by noting, as several other Conservapedia writers have, that "57 states" could be a reference to Heinz ketchup or simple a misstatement (Obama had visited 47 states), as well as the fact that there were not 57 Islamic states when Obama attended an Indonesian school. It was reverted. Why? Is this an encyclopedia, or a liberal hate blog? [[User:Egen|Egen]] 10:42, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

: Your edit was baseless, and probably politically motivated. The entry is factual and will remain that way. Obama has likely remained a Muslim long after attending grade school. Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:52, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: On the subject, I think someone should add the following line to your page: "The odds against Aschlafly's claim to be named 'Andrew Schlafly' being truthful are less than 1 billion to one, as fewer than 6 people in the world are named Andrew Schlafly." Don't put malarkey like this on a serious encyclopedia page and defend it as being "factual". I remind you of Conservapedia Commandments 1, 2, and 5. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 11:04, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: In any case, I fail to see how it is "baseless" to note, as other Conservapedia writers have, that "57 states" cannot possibly be a reference to "57 Islamic states" and probably has a more benign origin. It does not to any good to assert that anyone who disagrees with you probably does so because they are "politically motivated" (read: liberal) when many conservatives have expressed disdain for this point. I doubt that the majority of Conservapedia editors would disagree with my edit. This encyclopedia is not a personal blog for you or for anyone else. Therefore, I am reinserting the edit. If anyone can provide proof that Obama was referring to the "57 Islamic states" which did not exist when he was growing up '''and''' provide proof that that is what he was referring to, I'll retract this. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 12:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

::: Egen - I entirely agree with you. A lot of people here think this is a redstate comments thread rather than, as it says in the top left corner, "the trustworthy encyclopedia". Snopes on this one: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp

==Biased==
Isn't this site supposed to be unbaised?-[[User:Red4tribe|Red4tribe]] 16:46, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Welcome to Conservapedia[[User:Pluto|Pluto]] 18:19, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== "born, allegedly, in Honolulu" ==

there's no doubt he was ''born''. that should read "allegedly born in Honolulu"

God bless. [[User:JohnBarma|JohnBarma]] 13:30, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

== Favorite black leader ==

I've just finished reading Dreams from My Father. I don't recommend it. But one thing I missed was a reference to Malcolm X being Obama's "favorite black leader". He speaks highly of Malcolm X's autobiography, but doesn't like the "religious baggage" that the guy "discarded in later life". Is the reference here correct? [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 17:10, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

: Search Google on {"Malcolm X" Obama favorite} and you'll find numerous credible confirmations of the statement about Malcolm X being Obama's favorite black leader. The entry need not be limited to the silly Dreams book.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:03, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

::Not really seeing it. Various claims Obama loves Malcolm X's autobiography (which, subject to the point above, seems correct), but the claims that he is Obama's "favorite black leader" all cite no reference, or cite Dreams - I think incorrectly. Is there a source for Obama having said or written this? If not, it should go. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 18:12, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Barack Hussein Obama

2008-10-10T21:11:01Z

Marcdaniels:

Archives:
[[/archive1|1]]
[[/archive2|2]]
[[/archive3|3]]

== Meaning of Hussein ==

This has been brought up before, but I just wanted to do some research so we could clear it up: 1st point: According to the Oxford Dictionary of First Names, 2nd Edition (published 2006 by the Oxford University Press; authors Patrick Hanks, Kate Hardcastle, and Flavia Hodges; ISBN 0-19-861060-2) Hussein means this: " '''Husayn''' ♂ Diminutive of ''hasan'' 'good, beautiful, exquisite.' Al-Husayn (''c''.626-680) was the grandson of the Prophet, whose supporters emerged after his death as the Shiite party." Hussein is a variant of Husayn, yet it is unlisted in this dictionary. However, I think that it is apparent that this is simply a modified/altered form of the phonetic equivalent, much like Katherine/Catherine/Kathryn. Hussein/Husayn WAS the grandson of the Prophet, but to say that the name means such is akin to claiming that Mary means "Mother of Jesus." It may be a colloquial usage or have that connotative meaning, but until there is proof of that, then the entry seems to be incorrect. 2nd point: The source currently referenced (http://www.sudairy.com) displays this for the definition of Hussein: 
"'''Husain, Husayn, Hussein''' - Beautiful, doer of good deads[sic]; a descendent[sic] of the Prophet" which implies that the Oxford source is 1) more accurate as it is verifiable and edited by a trustworthy source and capable speller, and 2) "descendent[sic] of the Prophet" is in reference to the original namesake, though it is not clearly marked. If we are to trust sudairy.com as being completely accurate, however, then anyone named Hayyan, Hannad, or Nizar have the denotative travesty of meaning "Old Arabic Name." I think the entry should be changed to reflect this. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 16:52, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

: I don't understand. You list one of the meanings as "a descendent[sic] of the Prophet." Are you trying to imply that this is not Mohammed?--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 16:18, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

:: I listed the incorrect meaning as "descendent[sic] of the Prophet." This is from the website Suidairy.com, which is not an accurate source of information (my justification is the last paragraph of the first post). The definition I feel is most accurate is the Oxford one, listed above, which lists the definition as "good, beautiful, exquisite." Al-Husayn (a man, not a name) was the descendant of the prophet. For comparison, anyone named Jesus would not be assumed to be the son of God. --[[User:Limbo|Limbo]] 16:25, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

== No longer presumptive ==

He's the real-deal nominee at this point. [[User:Athuroglossos|Athuroglossos]] 13:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
:He's presumptive in the sense that Obama is far too inexperienced to be President. [[User:Redstatepride|Redstatepride]] 18:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

== Education In Jakarta, Indonesia ==

All students in Indonesia, regardless of religion get off for Islamic holy days including Nabi Isa which we know as Christmas. It's disengenuous to make a claim that because he went to a public school and got an Islamic holy day off that there's some nefarious connection. Muslims that attend Catholic school have to attend Mass whether they like it or not.--[[User:EmpressG1973|EmpressG1973]] 17:01, 28 August 2008 (EDT)

I think the point is that Barack Hussein Obama was observing an islamic holy day when he is claiming to be Christian. It just does'nt add up to alot of people and should make Christians think twice about him. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Actually it was his '''school''' that was observing the holiday. When a child attends a school, they can't just choose which days they want to take off. Your argument is ridiculous.-- [[User:rkstiner|rkstiner]]

How is my point incorrect? You can nit-pick it all you want but Obama attended a muslim school and observed muslim holidays. Thats all there is to it. Take your liberal name-calling elsewhere. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

Name calling?....where?[[User:Rkstiner|Rkstiner]]

:So a Jew who attends a public school in this country doesn't go to school on Christmas, so he is therefore observing a Christian holiday? Making him, I suppose, a Christian? Doesn't make sense. [[User:MichaelR|MichaelR]] 16:08, 3 September 2008 (EDT)

::You shouldn't have to defend it at all. Barack Hussein Obama is very likely a muslim there is strong evidence to suggest it. Since when is being a muslim such a bad thing? It's not, unless your running for President and try to lie about it. --[[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

== Reversion Explained ==

We don't post a politician's self-serving claptrap. Obama catered to anti-patriotic donors to win the nomination. There's no real dispute about that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:Remember, Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy, and children read this website. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::What's your point? That children don't need to know he flip flopped on wearing a flag pin? [[User:TJason|TJason]] 15:39, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::The point is that children especially should be told the truth. Include the flip-flopping by all means, but also include his explanation for why he did flip-flop. This has more validity then stating "but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation." Adequate to whom? By what criteria is the inadequacy judged? If he had explained it by saying "it's none of your business", or did not offer an explanation, then certainly that would qualify as "without adequate explanation." Remember: Conservapedia is billed as trustworthy. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:56, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::I agree that citing his explanation and then explaining why conservatives find it inadequate would be an improvement. I would make said improvement, but I am currently hard "at work". [[User:TJason|TJason]] 16:09, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

== Affirmative Action President ==

I reverted the removal of "affirmative action president" for now. Corey, can you explain why this is racist? If affirmative action isn't racist, why is describing someone as an "affirmative action president" racist? Is your problem with the description that it is racist? Or that it is untrue? I think these are two separate issues. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 10:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:This speaks to what I think is an enormous problem with affirmative action (no, I'm not a complete supporter), claiming that a minority only got a job because they are a minority. I think that claiming that Barack Obama's political success comes only from his being black is racist demagoguery, or at least rhetoric designed to incite racial tensions. I have no doubt that there are some people who support Obama only because of the color of his skin, just the same as there are those who oppose him only for the same reason. Also, I will not say that there isn't a desire by many people to see somebody other than white male in the White House. But this is not the ''only'' reason most of Obama's supporters have for supporting him, as the term "affirmative action president" suggests. He has political experience and he is a deft politician, which figures greatly in a political campaign. I would implore anybody who considers Obama to have no accomplishments to compare his life to that of our sitting president before 2000. Some time in office, a string of business failures, and questionable service in the Texas Air National Guard. Fortunately for G.W. Bush, his father is Bush 41. Bush supporters discuss his successes as his own doing. Claiming that Obama's are not his own because he is black sounds rather racist to me. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::George W. Bush was governor of Texas; some people consider that to be a political accomplishment. I think you will have to go pretty far back to find a candidate for President whose entire political career was two years as a Senator. In 1988 Dan Quayle was blasted for his lack of experience for a Vice Presidential candidate, and he had already served many more years in the Congress than Barack Obama has. Like it or not Obama was fasttracked and bypassed the usual protocols because of the color of his skin. Whether or not this is appropriate is left to each individual to decide. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 11:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::A governorship is certainly a political accomplishment, one which George W. Bush would probably have been unable to attain were it not for his father's name. There is hardly any information on the George W. Bush entry on this site pertaining to his life before his presidency, the details of which would likely lead many people to conclude that were George H.W. Bush not so well-connected his son would not be president. In contrast, the opening paragraph of Obama's entry uses his race to attack him politically. I find this hard to rationalize. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::There is not usually an understood litmus test for governor. Some people are longterm politicians, others are not. For instance Arnold held only minor political appointments before he became governor of California. But the Presidency has generally required proving yourself in some capacity. Bush was a well respected governor who received high marks. Carter, Clinton, and Reagan had all been governors. Someone running for President who has not successfully governed a state and has only been in Congress for 2 years is very out of the ordinary. Again, note what Quayle was put through and he was only a Vice Presidential candidate. That being said, I am not necessarily supporting the article in the form it has taken. I have not read it in quite some time, but if it is a leadoff then that would seem to be inappropriate. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:47, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::Obama's experience is fair game, and I agree that he has not had as much time in political office as the average candidate. I think that using race as an issue detracts from this fair and logical line of debate. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:53, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::I don't think that the term "affirmative action president" suggests that affirmative action is the '''only''' reason Obama is where he is. I think the term is supposed to denote that his being black is a '''major''' force behind his success. Also, I think the term brings to light that, historically, this is a first. No previous nominee has been the beneficiary of affirmative action in the way Obama has. At any rate, ''I'' won't revert the edit if you remove it again, since you've made your case and I am not willing to fight to keep it in. I suspect others might, though. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:37, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Where has he explicitly benefited from affirmative action programs? This is a "heads, I win, tails, you lose" situation. If he doesn't get into Harvard Law or win an election, it's because of lack of merit. If he succeeds, it's because the standards were lowered due to his race. This is an extremely dubious political argument. Attack him on his policies, voting record, character, or fitness to lead: fire as they bear! That's our process, and it's a good process. But these race arguments are petty, desperate, and drag our political discourse down to a despicable level. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:04, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::I am pretty sure that Harvard Law Review has an affirmative action policy, but I will have to check. Regardless, I think the term also covers "implicit" affirmative action that has benefited Obama (e.g. a white candidate with his experience would not be taken seriously). [[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:10, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::"Implicit" affirmative action seems to be in the realm of vagueness and speculation. I refer you to Conservapedia Commandment 1: "Everything you post must be true and verifiable." [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:25, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::::Like I said, I'm not really willing to fight over this. We are at least in agreement that this is a distraction from the real issue: his actual positions. I reverted the edit because I thought what was said in the edit comment should have been spelled out in the talk page. It has been. Therefore, if you want to remove the reference again, I won't revert it again.[[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:29, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::::::I have no intention of perpetuating a pointless revert war, either, and I agree that discussion of the real issues suffer because of such statements. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:32, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

== "Alleged" birth revert ==

Even the National Review doesn't dispute the [http://campaignspot.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWVjN2I1MjlhM2ZjZjRjYzBkODAxZjZkZGQyYWNkMDk= authenticity of Obama's birth certificate.] Why is Obama's birth information being censored by this website? [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:30, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::There is no censorship here. Removing any mention that there is doubt about the authenticity of his birth certificate is censorship, imho. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 12:34, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::However, the way rumor is so prominently injected into the article within the first five words is clear weasel-wording. A separate section regarding the issue would be more appropriate than saying that he was "allegedly" born somewhere, and I wouldn't oppose such a section. Seeing as how you usually hear the word "allegedly" on the news while watching a video of a perp walk, it is unnecessarily loaded language. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 12:42, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
::::And accusing senior CP members of "weasel-wording" isn't loaded? You should watch your step. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 12:46, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::We Should add "allegedly" to everything just to be fair.

:: We know many [[liberal]]s love [[deceit]], and the birth certificate posted by [[Obama]]'s campaign has obvious defects. Even its number is blotted out for unexplained reasons. There are still unanswered questions about his place and date of birth, and what is on his real certificate, which his campaign has not released. We provide the information about this and let the reader decide.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:12, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:::Then maybe the thing to do would be to dedicate a separate section to present the issue. It would be much clearer and provide more information than the status quo. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 14:16, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

::::I have reverted another removal of the word "alleged" since there are still unanswered questions about his birth certificate. Is the consensus that this should be made into a new section? [[User:TJason|TJason]] 17:18, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:::::I would agree with a section. This entire article could do with a better layout and more sectioning. Our John McCain article is better in this regard - perhaps we could use this as a blueprint? [[User:DefenderofTrue|DefenderofTrue]] 17:38, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

(unindent) We seem to be in agreement. I'll make a section tomorrow, under the "Published Criticism" section. I would like to add that I love it when people of different viewpoints can meet in the middle. Good night. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 23:44, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
:I like the changes you have made. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:37, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

::(edit conflict) Thank you. As discussed, I added a section regarding the birth certificate controversy and removed "alleged" from the intro paragraph. I tried to make it as evenly written as I could. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:40, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

::Also, what is up with the tag at the beginning of the article? I don't know what this is used for, but it doesn't appear to be doing anything except make "span" the first word in the article. [[User:TJason|TJason]] 11:44, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

:::1. You're right- I scanned the diff and thought he removed the Daily Kos ref. 2. I don't know. I never noticed it before. [[User:Corry|Corry]] 11:46, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

== We have a problem ==

Okay... to start things off I am deathly afraid of this man getting elected and think he would ruin our wonderful nation. I do think that the media is helping him and realize that he is basically "the chosen one." My conservative principles help me make all of those opinions. Heres the thing. This place exists because someone thought that wikipedia was biased and unfair... but honestly... some of this stuff borders on propaganda! For Pete's sake our job as conservatives is too tell the truth and expose things about him. This page is going too far. I'm embarrassed to know that my fellow conservatives wrote this! This page can still be dedicated to exposing the truth about "the chosen one." But we'll be SO much more effective if we do it properly and fairly. If you want to contact me its easier to do so at my wikipedia talk page of the same name. Thank you and lets try to do better please. [[User:Saksjn|Saksjn]] 15:32, 21 August 2008 (EDT)

: A true conservative would be appalled at Wikipedia and not contribute to their cause-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 20:39, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

== Hussein Obama's Birth Certificate Number ==

I copied this from the [[Talk:Main_Page#Obama_Born_In_U.S.A.|Main Page Talk section]] to here because you all might find it of interest. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:32, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

----
:[http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_5.jpg Look at this photo], is this Barack Obama's birth certificate? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 23:44, 22 August 2008 (EDT)

::It's interesting that they finally give the, so-called authentic, birth certificate number in this supposedly unfaked photo. It is '''151 1961 - 010641'''. The reason I bring this up, and I think the REAL reason this was masked, is because numerological analysis shows something very disturbing. If you add up the three sets of digits thus:<blockquote>151 + 1961 + 010641 = 12753</blockquote>and then add the individual digits of the result thus:<blockquote>1 + 2 + 7 + 5 + 3 = 18</blockquote>the final result, 18, is the product of three sixes (3 x 6 = 18). Three sixes, or [[666]], sort of speaks for itself. I just thought this was interesting. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:22, 23 August 2008 (EDT)
----

I think it's rather obvious that AdmiralNelson doesn't take this site seriously. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 20:51, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Does anyone? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 21:05, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:: I'm giving it a chance. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 21:14, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:::So am I. I new here and was hoping to find stuff that would challenge my beliefs, so far not much luck. [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 21:21, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

:Can I quote myself? '''I just thought this was interesting.''' For "seriousness" [[Special:Contributions/AdmiralNelson|I stand by my record]]. Feel free to check it out. --[[User:AdmiralNelson|AdmiralNelson]] 11:29, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

==Lawsuit==
The guy filing the lawsuit doesn't dispute the fact that he he was born in Honolulu. He is disputing that Obama is a US citizen after he lived in Indonesia. So why does it say allegedly born still? [[User:Visitor|Visitor]] 19:08, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

: I think he does dispute it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

: ASchlafly is correct - Philip J. Berg is alleging that Barrack Obama forged his birth-certificate because he was not a Natural Born US citizen. [http://obamacrimes.com/ Berg vs Obama] --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 14:50, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

== Dilution ==

Don't dilute the entry by referring to the silly text messaging stunt in the first paragraph.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

:Can I put it down in the Presidential Campaign section instead then? --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 10:49, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

== Requested change ==
Original text:
{{Cquote|On June 3rd, Barack Obama had received enough pledged delegates and the endorsement of superdelegates to be called the presumptive nominee of the Democratic Party by the Democratic National Committee. The nomination became official when Hillary Clinton conceded on June 7th.}}
Requested new text:
{{Cquote|Obama became the presumptive Democratic nominee on June 3rd after receiving a majority of pledged delegates and superdelegates. His only remaining primary opponent, [[Hillary Clinton]], conceded the race on June 7th. On August 23, Joe Biden was announced as Obama's vice-presidential nominee. Obama became the official Democratic nominee on August 27 at the Democratic National Convention, when Hillary Clinton's motion to end the roll call vote of the states and select Obama by acclamation was passed.}}
This more accurately describes what happened and updates the section with last week's events. --[[User:Ampersand|Ampersand]] 17:02, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
===Another===
[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=506483&oldid=505653 This link] should be commented out until [[Essay: The Special Interests Candidate| this abysmal essay]] is fixed. [[User talk:MargeryCampbell|Marge]] 17:11, 29 August 2008 (EDT)

==Pearl Harbor issue==

The entire section regarding his comments about Pearl Harbor has got to go. There is no reason to imply that someone leaving an 's' off the word 'bomb' (''bomb'''s''''' did fall on Pearl Harbor, that much is true, right?) means they ignore or disdain American history. I'm guessing the McCain article makes no immediate mention of his confusion over the borders of Iran, or his lack of knowledge about the situation in Iraq, illustrated by the fact that he mixed up the Sunnis and the Shi'ites. Do either of those things make sense? NO! I'm sure John McCain knows what he's talking about, and I'm sure he's not confused about the issues at hand. Obviously, which course of action he chooses to follow is eternally and rightly up for debate, and if we want to highlight that debate about Obama, then that's fine. But it's ridiculous - nay, ridicule-worthy - to say that Obama leaving out an 's' means he thinks Pearl Harbor was nuked. That's so stupid it turns neurons into Pop Rocks. [[User:OtherSide|OtherSide]] 19:51, 31 August 2008 (EDT)

No, it should stay, the man's an idiot, clearly. Also - I added the "any educated person would know" bit, which Jareddr just removed. But I'd point out that many of the younger generation ''don't'' know that it wasn't one bomb. I've even spoken to young folk who confuse Pearl Harbor with Hiroshima, and think that the nuclear bomb was dropped on Pearl Harbor! It's remarkable how uneducated some of today's public-school educated youth are. Also, people from foreign countries may not know the context of Obama's gaffe. Perhaps that point might be allowed back in - Jareddr, if you want to re-word it yourself maybe? I think it's kind of important, the stupidity of his point might be missed otherwise. [[User:RobCross|RobCross]] 14:55, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:Then state something to the effect of, "In actuality, multiple bombs were dropped on Pearl Harbor during the Japanese mission." You didn't say anything about being foreign-educated, only "any educated person..." If you want to place it in context using my above phrasing, go ahead. But the entire section has already been set up to switch verbal miscues for "idiocy" so no need to pile on, as they say.

:Besides, you don't see anything on McCain's pages about him "not knowing" the difference between Sunni and Shiite, referencing Czechoslovakia (a now defunct country), or calling Putin the President of Germany.--[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 14:58, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:OK, I'l do that then Jareddr, thanks for the suggestion. As to the McCain entry, I don't think we need to highlight those issues, they're a distraction. [[User:RobCross|RobCross]] 15:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::True, we don't want to confuse the readers about the candidate storylines. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:11, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::The entry should be removed, since McCain failed to state how many homes he owns is no where to be seen on the McCain article. [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 15:43, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::::Don't be ridiculous, Samuel. Many everyday Americans have trouble remembering how many homes they own. Sometimes they own a home, but it's in someone else's name, or it's just a vacation lodge, or it's a few homes on one piece of property. Ask people on the street how many homes they own, and I guarantee very few will answer! --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:46, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

::::: McCain isn't running to be a real estate agent for the country.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:52, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::True, but he spoke about real estate business, and it's undeniably a large factor in the economy, which is a current problem. Compare that to Obama and 60 years ago? Oh Please. Thanks for the sarcasm Jared. :P [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 16:39, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::: Obama isn't running to be a history teacher for the country either, though. One could argue that if you're going to enforce a populist message, and cast yourself as an "everyman" and your opponent as "elite", you should be able to answer how many homes you have on command. We're not looking for net value, just a (presumably) single-digit number. I'm not aware of any "everyman" that forgets that number, but I'm sure some "elite" may forget. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 16:07, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::: Obama can try that next, Samuel: "Who cares about what happened at Pearl Harbor? That was 60 years ago!!!" Good luck to him and his supporters with that absurd approach.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:12, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::What's more absurd is putting words in my mouth (as well as Obama's, apparently?), as if I were trying to say that I didn't care about Pearl Harbor. I said no such thing. I was comparing something that happened over 60 years ago to present time in relevance to gaffe, nothing more and nothing less, in comparison to Obama's article and McCain's. [[User:SamuelHTD|SamuelHTD]] 19:29, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:::::::: Obama's gaffe was about an essential element of American history that defines our country; McCain's was not. We do expect presidents to know important aspects of American history. We really do. We don't care if they can tell you how wealthy they are, or how many houses they own.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:35, 5 September 2008 (EDT)--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:35, 5 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::::::And yet McCain's belief in an Iraq/Pakistan border - and his belief that a country named "Czechoslovakia" still exists - shows how out of touch he may be with the issues that matter NOW.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 19:42, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

:I won't compare the semantics of how you measure the impact and importance of a slip-up, but it ''is'' rather telling that the Obama article prominently features such a slip-up while the McCain article apparently doesn't. This doesn't compute. Both of them have had weird moments ("President Putin of Germany", anybody?), and in fact, everybody has slip-ups. Bushisms, anybody? So why do we have to pick on Obama's mistakes alone?
:An encyclopedia needs consistent standards. Entries about similar topics should be comparable. They should be similar in style. They should follow the same intuitive standards.
:Overall, the McCain article looks like a very good example of how such an entry should look like (kudos to those who made it that way), and the Obama article is a prime example of something that would look great on some obvious right-wing propaganda site, but ''not'' in an encyclopedia. The part before the TOC should be condensed and moved to another part of the article. The intro section (the part before the TOC) is supposed to be an ''intro''. It should briefly sum up who he is and what he does, period. Then come biography sections, then his political stuff, then the Presidential campaign. And THERE you should feature the notable events or slip-ups. I'm most definitely no Obama supporter, but when comparing the McCain and Obama articles, you don't have to do a deep analysis to figure out that this site is way more political activism than encyclopedia, and I think that should change. --[[User:DirkB|DirkB]] 20:22, 5 September 2008 (EDT)

Remember when George H. W. Bush got the date wrong for Pearl Harbor by months? And he's a WWII veteran! 'Bomb' was a slip of the tongue, nothing more. [[User:CraigC|CraigC]] 21:14, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

== Citation Needed ==

The first sentence in the second paragraph about Barack Obama reads this:
Obama almost always reads from prepared text on a teleprompter and rarely allows tough questions.

It then gives the citation down at the bottom, which reads this:
After one debate against Hillary Clinton in Philadelphia, the Obama campaign announced that the questions were too difficult and that Obama would not agree to future debates with her.

I don't think that's a real citation. Does a link not need to be provided? Just like anybody can type anything on the main page, anybody can type anything as the citation too. I would suggest either finding legitimate proof to this claim, or just take it down.

== Tone of the article on Obama ==

The whole tone of this article on Barack Obama is appalling. It is poorly written, inaccurate, misleading, insulting and thoroughly vile. I would be ashamed to publish such contemptible stuff.

: That's your first -- and only -- contribution here. Hope you can do better than that!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:17, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

== Tone of the article on Obama ==

I see someone is watching the Obama talk page like a hawk. I stand by my previous remarks and hope to be adding many more in the near future.

: Good for you. And my hope is that you'll have better contributions to this site than what you've done so far.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:25, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I have to say that to a foreigner, this article reads like one-sided drivel. Some of it is so blatantly ridiculous that it gives a negative impression of the people writing it, not Obama. Surely you should be attacking him over his policies rather than a non-existent issue over where he was born or some completely pathetic nonsense about him taking holidays at the same time as other kids in his school. (Amazing but true: Sikh, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish and Buddhist children in Britain take holidays at Christmas and Easter; they don't volunteer for extra classes on those days.) This article reads as though you've given up all hope of defeating him on political grounds and are just falling back on rather silly personal remarks. Surely you can do better than that! (Kindly read that as constructive criticism.) [[User:Googly|Googly]] 19:45, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

== I'm noticing a very disturbing pattern... ==

# (cur) (last) 15:45, 8 September 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (59,707 bytes) (Reverted edits by Lodovico (Talk); changed back to last version by Ampersand) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 15:42, 8 September 2008 Lodovico (Talk | contribs) m (59,972 bytes) (Corrected information of misinterpretation) (undo)

Alright, so notice that Lodovico makes an edit, and adds sufficient reasoning for his edit in the apt column. Notice then that Andrew changes it, and doesn't even look to the talk page to provide ANY reasoning.

# (cur) (last) 23:55, 6 September 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (58,039 bytes) (Reverted edits by Chippeterson (Talk); changed back to last version by AliceBG) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 23:52, 6 September 2008 Chippeterson (Talk | contribs) (58,095 bytes) (→Senate career) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 14:19, 6 September 2008 Chippeterson (Talk | contribs) (58,052 bytes) (I don't like Obama anymore then ayone else on Conservapedia, but come on. The two pictures should be reversed) (undo)

Here again we have a very reasonable edit, that it reverted without adequate explanation.

# (cur) (last) 14:36, 25 August 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) m (57,388 bytes) (Reverted edits by Impm (Talk); changed back to last version by Aschlafly) (undo)
# (cur) (last) 14:35, 25 August 2008 Impm (Talk | contribs) (57,106 bytes) (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html He was born in Hawaii unequivocally.) (undo)

Impm makes what appears to be a reasonable edit, and Andrew changes it again.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Barack_Obama#Citation_Needed <--- Here is another example; everyone is discussing the pertinent issue, including Andrew, but then drops out of the picture and: (cur) (last) 10:09, 27 August 2008 Aschlafly (Talk | contribs) (57,862 bytes) (restored material deleted by liberal censorship) (undo)

I'm just wondering, but why is it we have to discuss changes we want to make whenever an edit conflict arises, but Andrew doesn't? This makes it essentially impossible to edit any article that Andrew has become party to because you can never know which of your edits will be acceptable or not.

Then there is this: http://www.conservapedia.com/Talk:Barack_Obama#Affirmative_Action_President

Despite the lack as a citation for the statement that caused that particular talk-page topic to manifest, and the lack-of-response from Andrew, any time this statement is changed Andrew swoops in and reverts it.

Am I alone in seeing this? Do I see a ghost ruffling the leafs or is it simply just the wind?[[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 19:51, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
:I've noticed it too, but I didn't think asking him about it would change anything. Especially on the "affirmative action president" thing. --[[User:Ampersand|Ampersand]] 23:15, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

::This is inane. It's been more at least a day now and we haven't even gotten a one sentence response yet; just more reverted edits without adequate explanation. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 18:28, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

::Welcome to conservapedia. Often if you attempt to question the work of ASchlafly, he will simply ignore you. --[[User:AndrasK|AndrasK]] 18:33, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

::Jirby, be concise in your comments. This site isn't a liberal blog where people talk, talk, talk without saying anything. Reversions do not have a place for summarizing the reason in the wiki software. Also, people who only criticize conservatives without criticizing the liberal vandals lack credibility.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:43, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:::So the best you can do... is complain that my words are too big and my sentences are too long? And here I was trying my best not to mischaracterize you. Shame on me! It is also clearly evident that revisions do not have a comment box, but how does that keep you from posting your reasons for consistently reverting factual edits here? It doesn't. My concern also isn't with liberal/conservative/anarchist vandals because they're freaking obvious and will be dealt with without my input (unless in the case of the uppity negro comment from before) they have fallen under the radar of authority and it behooves me to say something. Now stop trying to shift this in a way as if it is MY fault for trying to make you accountable as per your own rules. [[User:Jirby|Jirby]] 18:49, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:::: Jirby, your above rant illustrates my point. I'm moving on and request that you be substantive and concise in the future.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:53, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

==Large repetitions!==
The "Published Criticism" section repeats, aside from a couple of sentances, almost word for word the introduction. This needs changing as it looks silly to have repetitions so I am going to leave this comment to see if there is any response and wait 48 hours and then go to work on fixing it. [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 21:17, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

: Fine, but don't remove information from the introduction. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:18, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

::I'll only remove the double-ups from the lower section. Thanks for the quick response! [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 21:20, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

== Marxist/redistrubution of wealth line ==

Was just trying to [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=512956&oldid=512942 fix my spelling error], not trying to revert Andy. --[[User:GunsandaBible|GunsandaBible]].

=="My Muslim Faith" quote==
I've seen the video of this quote and it is taken totally out of context. What Obama is saying is that JOhn McCain has not accused him of being a secret muslim. Does anyone really believe that this is Obama mistakenly revealing that he is a muslim? Anyone who has seen the video can't seriously believe that this is the case. This quote should be removed before people start taking it seriously. [[User:Billgates3|Billgates3]]

:Can someone explain why you think it would be such a big deal if Barack Obama were actually Muslim? (Leaving aside for the moment the lack of any evidence that he ever has been a Muslim.) I thought you guys in the USA believed in separation of religion and the state, so why does it matter what religion, if any, the President happens to follow? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 20:13, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

:: As a Democrat who will be voting for Obama, I think (and I really hope that this is the general consensus) that the main issue would be that he's lied. I'd like to think that somebody saying up front that they were a Muslim wouldn't be a reason to vote against them if they're wholly qualified otherwise, but IF it turns out that somebody can prove that he really is a Muslim (I highly doubt anything like that can turn up, since everything out there now is just gossip), then he'll be caught in a BIG lie that would kill his credibility with everything. [[User:Mk|Mk]] 15:12, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

== Muslim & Catholic holidays ==

Why on earth are CP people bothered about the fact that Obama had holidays for Muslim festivals when he went to school in a Muslim country? Muslim (and Sikh, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish and Zoroastrian) children take days off school for Christian holidays in the UK without society collapsing. Honestly, some of the stuff on this page is just weird. Why on earth don't you guys concentrate on his policies (or lack of any) instead of getting so worked up about personal matters which are complete non-issues? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 19:27, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

:It is a matter of honesty which Obama will not address. America has never elected somebody with such a secret history as Barack hides from. Criticize CP all you want, I don't expect you to last here that long. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 21:12, 14 September 2008 (EDT)

::Err... why not, exactly? What's the problem with suggesting that politically-active people in the USA should concentrate on politics, not on minor details (or utterly trivial ones, in this case) of a candidate's personal life? [[User:KennyMac|KennyMac]] 12:54, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

== Unreliable sourcing and references ==

The section on Obama's "secrecy" cites only a blog which gives no sources. Unless there are complaints or offers to better source it, I will remove this section or shorten it.

The section on Obama's middle name is also poorly sourced. It is claimed that "most" people change their names when they undergo a religious conversion. The cite refers to two people who converted to Christianity and then changed their names. "For example" can never be used to prove "most". Unless someone offers a statistic backing up the "most" claim, I will change it to "some". Additionally, the citation given for the meaning of "Hussein" is to a names list on about.com. There is no way this can be considered authoritative, and in any case the alternate meaning ("handsome") should also be reported lest we be accused of fearmongering.

Finally, I fail to see how "there are few atheists in Kenya" could possibly be seen as an argument against Obama's father being nonreligious. There are also few admirals in the US; does this mean McCain's father wasn't an admiral? [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:22, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

::Seeing no objection on the talk page or attempts to correct the faulty information during the last 24 hours or so, I've gone ahead and made the edits. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 15:39, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

::Sorry, wholesale deletion of content, some which has been discussed on the talk page, is inappropriate at your rank of contributions.-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 15:48, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Surprise, surprise. Everything Egen deleted was either unsourced or irrelevant.--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 19:29, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

:::This "content" is worthless and factually inaccurate in a way that's absolutely obvious to anyone reading it. The page is already too long and having such nonsense on the page is a severe detriment to our credibility. No one even attempted to respond to my reasoning and I gave ample time to allow disagreements. If ANYONE can provide reliable evidence that "most" people change their name when they convert, that Obama's father was not an atheist, and that Hussein means "descendent of the prophet Muhammad" (a baby names site is not reliable evidence) then please do so. (The last statement is, in fact, false. In Arabic, you would never simply refer to any descendant of Muhammad as "Hussein". "Hussein" does not mean "descendant of Muhammad" any more than James means "brother of Jesus.") [[User:Egen|Egen]] 19:26, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

==Senate career==
HelpJazz, the stat is no good. It is an attempt at obfusication, it's not 1 billion, it is only 18%, gee. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 23:54, 21 September 2008 (EDT)
:Uh, it say right in the article "$936 million". The 18% figure only adds to the figure, it takes away nothing. Obama has a lifetime score of 18%, which is far below failing and far below the Republican average. Plus, if you really thought that the 18% figure was obsfucation (which, I'll reiterate, doesn't make any sense) then why did you take away the scale, which gives meaning to the number? If I said that Barack Obama scored a 397 on a liberalness test, you would want to know what that score means, no? And you would want to know how he compares to other liberals, right? You wouldn't say "he scored 397 on a liberalness test -- that's just under 400!" because that doesn't add anything to the article. Your "500k/day" stat ''does'' add to the article. Even though there's nothing to compare it to, it's still a nice number that hits home how big almost a billion is. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:44, 22 September 2008 (EDT) PS: Sorry to keep you waiting, editing cut off early last night, and wasn't on this morning before I went to work.

==Muslim==

I know this has been talked about a lot here, but i would like for someone to prove to me byond a reasonable doubt that Obama is a muslim. Otherwise, i don't think we should have him in the 'muslims' category. so, can someone provide irrefutable proof that Barack Obama is a practicing muslim?
:Reasonable doubt is enough, or no article would have categories. [[User:Devout|Devout]] 15:16, 23 September 2008 (EDT)
::based on that logic i could say McCain is ineligible to be US President due to his birth in the Panama Canal Zone due to the US returning it. [[User:Xapdal5|Xapdal5]] 23:08, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

My parents and pastor always taught me not to lie, so when I heard there was a website that dealt more fairly with intelligent design and creationism than most, I wanted to check it out. I was quite upset to find a site filled with such dishonesty, double-standards, and vitriol. I don't recall that part of my bible that says 'don't lie unless it's about someone of the rival political party.' [[User:Booster|Booster]] 17:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Booster, you are not looking at this issue properly. It is not a matter of party. Obama is a Muslim. The United States is, by tradition, a Christin nation. As Devout notes, there is enough reasonable doubt that no true Christian can vote for him.--[[User:Saxplayer|Saxplayer]] 17:56, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

::::But he's NOT a Muslim. Misspeaking once or twice doesn't make you a Muslim. Not wearing a flag-pin doesn't make you a Muslim. A funny name doesn't make you a Muslim. My middle name is Caesar and I don't worship Zeus. If the man was a Muslim, there would be real evidence, unless we contend that he hides under the blanket at night and reads the Koran by flashlight. I'm not going to vote for the man because I fundamentally disagree with many of his policies, not because of untruths posted about his religion. [[User:Booster|Booster]] 22:29, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

::::You say he's a Muslim? Heck, I don't know about the rest of you guys, but that's all the proof I need!--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 18:02, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

I am proud muslim but not from united states. Obama is very good but not muslim. That is ok. Also, I read article and it say that Obama not change his name. Around me, muslims convert to jesus but do not change their names. I will change article if that is ok. [[User:SyedO|SyedO]] 18:06, 23 September 2008 (EDT)

The issue is that the United States is a Christian Nation. We are one nation under God, not mohammad or allah. That probably offends liberals, but it's the truth. [[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

:Not that it matters, because Obama is not a Muslim unless anyone can provide any actual evidence to suggest that he is. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 16:32, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

The US is not a Christian nation. It clearly states in the constitution that church and state are separate. while there might be christian influences it does not mean we are a christian nation. [[User:Xapdal5|Xapdal5]] 23:14, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

I have yet to see conclusive evidense that he is a muslim. i am removing him from that category.

: Perhaps we should have a category called "Suspected Muslims" or "Crypto-Muslims"? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:25, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== What does "alleged" mean ==

"Does it mean he may have been born somewhere else," or that "his live birth is contested?" "Is it supposed to mean he may have been hatched?" Then he'd be evolved, right libs? Some people on here are so dumb it frightening. [[User:LarryHapp|LarryHapp]] 15:42, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

== Allegations of Homosexuality & Drug Use ==

I'm surprised that this article did not mention the compelling allegations of homosexuality and drug-abuse. One witness (a former homosexual called Larry Sinclair) confessed in great detail an event in which he consumed cocaine and performed oral-sex on Obama (this was a few years before he became a senator).

This issue has been the subject of at least two court-cases - both were dismissed on technicalities, conveniently allowing Mr. Obama to avoid tackling the substantive issue.

Despite being repeatedly asked to deny or even comment about these allegations Team-Obama has remained utterly silent. Surely (as Mr. Sinclair stated) - if somebody made an allegation which was incorrect you'd deny it or at least tell your side of the story. Obama's silence on this issue (as so many others) is worthy of suspicion. With the permission of my fellow Conservapedia users I'd like to add a summaary of these alegations to the article. --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:12, 26 September 2008 (EDT)

:He's already admitted to cocaine use in one of his books (''Dreams from my Father'', I think.)--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 22:15, 26 September 2008 (EDT)
::Any nutball can allege anything. Some things are below notice. [[User:CraigC|CraigC]] 08:34, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::That is true, however Larry Sinclair has been vetted by a great many conservative journalists. His story has yet to be disproven, and furthermore he has come under a great deal of attack by Joe Biden's people. Given that Sinclair's story is merely corroborating something that Obama has already admitted, why exclude it from what ought to be an authoritative article? Obama supporters have called Sinclar a nut (and much worse), but none of them have disproven his allegations? Ask yourself - why is it that Obama has not attempted to disprove that he had a homosexual liason and took crack-cocaine with Mr. Sinclair that night? His silence on the topic does not make any sense. --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 08:40, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

::: No, not everyone bothers to deny every allegation. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 09:58, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:: I agree, not everybody bothers to deny everything, for example if I accused you of being an "alien from outer-space" or something entirely preposterous then you might be right to disregard my comments. On the other hand Sinclair has only accused Obama of things which he has partly confessed to. Regarding drug-taking, Obama confessed that he had tried drugs as a young man but had given up. Sinclair contends that he witnessed Obama using drugs relatively recently.

:: Your point would be entirely relevant to this case if the Obama people were simply ignoring Sinclair, however as anybody who has watched this story unfold can see Obama's people have done anything but ignore Sinclair. In fact, he was the victim of a very organized campaign to discredit him. Biden's people arranged for him to be arrested during one of his press conferences (you can see it on Youtube if you do not believe me).

:: This article has presented a great deal of evidence that Mr. Obama can be sneaky and deceptive. We know that America harbors a great deal of drug-users and homosexuals. Why do you believe that somebody who faked a legal document (like a Birth Certificate) might be incapable of other acts of immorality? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:21, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== A compromise for place of birth issues? ==

Rather than simply state that he was allegedly born in a state of the USA, how about we outline the various conflicting theories regarding his place of birth, the primary evidence of each of those theories and the principle backers of each of those theories. That way we can be fair and balanced with regards to this issue? --[[User:Jimmygoddard|Jimmygoddard]] 20:30, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

== "Pokiston"????? ==

What's this nonsense on the News section of the Main Page about a '''Muslim''' pronounciation of Pakistan as 'Pokiston'? For one thing, there's no such thing as a Muslim pronounciation of anything - a Muslim from Glasgow sounds Scottish, a Muslim from Madras sounds South Indian. For another, the Pakistani pronounciation of Pakistan is 'Paakistaan' - long aa's (aaah). Please delete this item from the News - it just makes CP look silly. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 20:51, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

: I don't think what you said is true. Arabic is the language of the Koran, having a Muslim pronunciations, and "Pakistan" is a word created by Muslims, having a Muslim pronunciation. There is Muslim pronunciation used by Obama and a very different English pronunciation used by most Americans.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:57, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::: The pronounciation of the word as used in India and Pakistan - by Hindus, Muslims, Christians and everyone else - is Paakistaan. That would also be an transliteration of the word into English. It's now also much the most common pronounciation in the UK; before about 1970 in the UK, both "a"s were pronounced as the short, semi-closed "a" as in cat, hat, fat, etc, but it's changed to become closer to the Indian/Pakistani pronounciation. I daresay the "cat/hat/fat" vowel sound might still be used "by most Americans" (to quote you) but that isn't the usage in India, Pakistan or the UK. I have no idea how Obama says Pakistan but there's no more a Muslim pronounciation of the word than there is a Hindu or Christian one. In any case, Pakistan is an Urdu word, not an Arabic one. It makes no more sense to say that 'Pakistan' is an Arabic word than to say that 'automobile' is a Greek word. And finally, why does this matter to you? [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 20:32, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Andy- just because Arabic is the language of the Koran, that doesn't mean that there is such a thing as "Muslim pronounciations." In this last statement, you've conflated religion ("Muslim pronounciation"), linguistic groups ("Arabic") and nationalities ("Pakistan" and "English pronounciation used by most Americans.") They are all different, and all complex. A French-speaking Algerian isn't going to pronounce "Pakistan" the same way as an Arabic-speaking Sudanese or an Indonesian. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:03, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

:::Well, right, an American doesn't pronounce Pakistan the way that Muslims educated in Indonesia do, which underscores the point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:14, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::: But isn't Obama an American? --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 16:15, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::::He ''claims'' to be. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 16:20, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::I know LOTS of Americans who use the pronounciation in question. And Brits, too. Look at it this way: if the link between the language of the Koran and the billion or so Muslims scattered across the globe means that there is such a thing as "Muslim pronounciation," does that mean that the world's Christians--Swedes, Phillipinos, Americans, Candians, Irish, Brazilians, French, Germans, all share "Christian pronounciations" that can be traced back to Hebrew, Aramaic and ancient Greek? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:18, 27 September 2008 (EDT)
::::::Quite correct, AliceBG. A Christian from South India doesn't sounds like a Christian from Scotland and a Muslim from Scotland doesn't sound like a Muslim from South India. Putting stuff like this "Pokiston" issue on CP's front page gives the impression that Aschafly and his colleagues have no serious issues with which to attack Obama and are forced to resort to personal trivia of the silliest kind. I really don't understand why Aschafly & friends don't focus on the politics. This is very peculiar to people outside the USA. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 14:34, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

Liberals protest here too much to the observation that Obama uses the Muslim pronunciation of Pakistan rather than the virtually universal American pronunciation. But nothing in the liberal protests explains the clear difference in a satisfactory manner.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:40, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Actually, many of the protests have pointed out clearly that your assertion is based on a mistaken conflation between religion and linguistic groups, have pointed to the fact that Muslims from different language groups pronounce words differently, and have pointed out that the notion of "Christian pronounciation" would obviously be an impossible phenomenon to talk about. i'd repeat myself, but I'd rather go back to improving your encyclopedia for you. Asalaam Aleikum.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:47, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Aschafly, why is pointing out an instance where CP is talking nonsense 'liberal'? [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 16:14, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

This is just ridiculous. What is a "Muslim pronunciation?" Muslims everywhere pronounce words and names differently. If anything, an "Arabic pronunciation" might exist, but that is debatable. And don't give me the crap about that because Arabic is the language of the Koran, everyone who uses an Arabic pronunciation is Muslim. Arab Christians around the world speak Arabic. Plus, Arabic was being spoken way before Islam cam around. The name of the country should be pronounced the way it actually sounds, as dictated by the natives. Iraq is not "eye-rack," it is pronounced Irok. The fact that Obama pronounces Pakistan properly just shows that he is attentive to the culture and language of the country, (a key ally that we are in danger of losing, by the way), not that he is a Muslim. Even if there were some kind of valid point in the "Pokiston" argument, which there is most definitely not, it would be minuscule considering the broader scale of things. This whole section has just got to go.

: You protest too much. There is a common American pronunciation of "Pakistan", but Obama uses the different pronunciation he either learned while attending a Muslim grade school, or heard from his closest advisers over the past 20 years. It's informative to point that out, whether you think he's "correct" or not. Pronunciations can be illustrative of one's culture and beliefs. It suggests the pronunciation used by one's teachers and advisers.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:37, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

:: Notice that you didn't address any of the actual points I made. I say "Pokistan." I avoid saying "eye-rack." Am I a Muslim? And what is an "American" pronunciation? As far as I know, there is no "American" way of saying anything. Do you mean an English pronunciation? I am simply baffled by some of the things people say on this site.

== Section headings ==

This is a long article with a large variety of sub-topics. I've inserted a half-dozen section headings that improve readability and organization. While it might be a good idea to think about re-organizing the sections and moving particular facts into different sections, I really think the piece needs to be broken up like this--plus it makes it more effective, acting as a catalogue of important questions and criticisms.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:51, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

: The greatest insights are going on the first screen page, period.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:58, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Fine--why undo the section headings, then? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:59, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::I think I see the problem - when a section heading is inserted higher up, the contents block, which is rather large, takes up most of the first screen. However, if you hit the "hide" button on the contents block, it takes up very little space and the insights are on the first screen page. It seems to be a "sticky" hide also, as it continues to be hidden when I re-load the page. I hope this helps. Like [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]], I'm just attempting to improve readability by inserting section headings. I do not want to remove any insights, or hide any. I believe section headings actually make it easier for the reader to glance over the many areas of concern (in the contents block), and go quickly to their area of interest, whilst still remaining aware of the other topics presented. They will also help editors to put their information in the correct section, thus minimizing problems with redundant information and making the whole article easier to read. (Right now, some of it kind of jumps around.) I am also open to other solutions to the problems that a long article presents. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 23:14, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::Oh, i see the problem too. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:15, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
== HSMOM ==

A lot of the stuff under the "Islam" section heading has nothing to do with Islam, but Schlafly won't let anyone put it in a reasonable order. Good luck with that. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:07, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
:Told you. He won't listen.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:09, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
::There should be a way to solve this. You can force the TOC to not show up and then manually add it some where else. I can't remember how to do it off the top of my head, but I'll see if I can poke around and remember how. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 12:43, 29 September 2008 (EDT)
:::Ok, as dirty as I feel for putting "his muslim faith" higher up than his birth, hopefully this should solve the problem. Now the Muslim insights are on the first page, and they are sectioned off for better flow. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 12:54, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

I fail to see how Obama's pronunciation of "Pakistan" has anything to do with his religion. And I don't care that he didn't change his middle name. Maybe he does have muslim beliefs, but these things would have nothing to do with it. There has to be fewer illogical statements here to be respectable; I thought the point of this page was to get away from the bias of wikipedia. Don't make conservatives look bad. Logic, facts, and history are on the conservative's side - use them.

==Professor?==

In attempting to organize the article yesterday, I came across two different sections on Obama's job at the University of Chicago. They seem to contradict each other. Here they are:
* Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago; in fact, he held the position of "Senior Lecturer."<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> <ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> For most of his time there he was regarded by the university as a professor.<ref>Obama was on the faculty at the University of Chicago from 1992 to 2004.[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>
*He was "Senior Lecturer in the Law", which is not a professor-level position, at the [[University of Chicago]] Law School as of 2004<ref>http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml</ref> and is no longer active at the school.<ref>http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama</ref>
<references/>
To sort this out, I looked at the references provided. Here's what they said:
* ''"I was a constitutional law professor, which means unlike the current president I actually respect the Constitution," Obama told an audience at a campaign fundraiser. ... Responding to Obama's comments, Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, said, "Senator Obama needs to understand that at this level words matter and he will be scrutinized." Ronayne pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. The University of Chicago lists him as a senior lecturer on leave.''<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref> So in this reference, an AP story in the San Francisco Chronicle, we have evidence that Obama has indeed called himself a law professor, and a quote from an RNC spokesman saying he was not.
* This reference <ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref> is to a chat board. It mostly lists several references, including the article above and the University of Chicago's ''Statement Regarding Barack Obama''.
* The next two references are repeats of the first two.
* The next is the University of Chicago's ''Statement Regarding Barack Obama''.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> It states: ''The Law School has received many media requests about Barack Obama, especially about his status as "Senior Lecturer." From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama served as a professor in the Law School. He was a Lecturer from 1992 to 1996. He was a Senior Lecturer from 1996 to 2004, during which time he taught three courses per year. Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track. The title of Senior Lecturer is distinct from the title of Lecturer, which signifies adjunct status. Like Obama, each of the Law School's Senior Lecturers has high-demand careers in politics or public service, which prevent full-time teaching. Several times during his 12 years as a professor in the Law School, Obama was invited to join the faculty in a full-time tenure-track position, but he declined.'' It seems that he was an adjunct from '92 to '96, but after that, as a Senior Lecturer, he was considered a professor.
* The next reference is a news article on UChicago's site from '04. It uses the title of Senior Lecturer to describe Obama, which confirms that he was indeed at that time a Senior Lecturer. <ref>[http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml]</ref>
<references/>
All of the references seem to agree that Obama was a Senior Lecturer, and that he was not full-time. The RNC spokesman said that Obama was "only a Senior Lecturer and not a full professor". UofC said "Senior Lecturers are considered to be members of the Law School faculty and are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure-track". I think we should sum all this up by including something along the lines of the following:
*Obama has described himself as a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago.<ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref> He held the position of Lecturer, an adjunct position, from 1992 to 1996.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> He held the position of Senior Lecturer from 1996 until his election to the senate in 2004.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref> Dan Ronayne, a spokesman for the Republican National Committee, has pointed that Obama was only a senior lecturer and not a full professor. <ref>[http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics]</ref>The University states that Senior Lecturers are regarded as professors, although not full-time or tenure track.<ref>[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>
<references/>
--[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 15:36, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

== Great-uncle ==

Please could someone explain why it matters that Obama's great-uncle liberated Buchenwald rather than Auschwitz? [Stuff not about B.O. deleted] Really, fellow CP people, sometimes you have to stop nit-picking and get a life. Surely there are political issues you can attack the man on? Why are you fussing about precisely which Nazi concentration camp his great-uncle helped to liberate. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 18:25, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

::It not that he was wrong about his uncle, its that he used it as a politics tool. Like how he says about 57 states. He doesnt think or research about what he says. Do we want a president that makes that many slips? [[User:Patriot1505|Patriot1505]]

::: Well, I'd say he isn't the first American politician (or British one, come to that) not to be 100% careful about what he says on every single occasion. How about your ''current'' President?! [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 18:33, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

:::: The problem is one of honesty, not harmless slips. The gaffes reveal a real Obama that is being denied by himself and his supporters. Obama's gaffes are analogous to a racist gaffe, which of course no liberal would ignore if uttered by an opponent.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:36, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

::::: My head is spinning... Thanks, anyway, for not putting that particularly unpleasant slur back on your page about B.O. [[User:WaZi|WaZi]] 16:17, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

==Birth certificate edit==
The word "alleged" will stay for now, and here's why: the reference used for the certificate links to a pic of what is claimed to be Obama's, which is not the original. What is there is what could be called a "certified official copy" from the Department of Vital Statistics in Hawaii, which means that someone went to the filed originals and started typing on the copy sheet what he/she saw. Since there is a little war brewing over whether or not Obama was actualy born there, I think it's reasonable to ask for A) a copy of what a Hawaiian birth certificate looked like in 1960; and B) a Xerox copy of Obama's birth certificate as it appears in the files, and NOT as the certified copy that we are seeing now. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:04, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
:I'm going to revert my stance on it. Certain federal laws state that if a person is born to an American citizen in another country, that baby is an American citizen as well (there is such a document as a State Department birth certificate). Unless it is proven that the Hawaiian birth certificate is a fake, I think this website should just say that he was born there and leave it at that. It's just not much of an issue when there are more serious ones to concentrate on (Bill Ayers, ACORN, his Marxism, etc). [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 14:11, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

== sex ed for kindergartners? ==

Why do I keep hearing about Obama wanting sex ed for kindergartners? It is appalling to think that the next president of the united states might actually teach sex education to 5 year old's.

Answer: http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/off_base_on_sex_ed.html

== Disgusted Conservative ==

I've voted Republican in every election since 1960, but I'm absolutely disgusted by this page.

What happened to the dignity of our party under Goldwater and Reagan? This "encyclopedia" page is just one long rant.

Are there any real conservatives out there willing to present objective, factual criticism of Obama? God knows there are enough valid arguments to make. Why are we channeling Michael Savage rather than William Buckley? Currently this page makes me cry for my party.

:Sounds like disgusted conservative is voting for BO. I happen to think it is an accurate account of a man that is dishonest. Where will you get the real picture about about if not here? Are you disgusted by Wikipedias article? How about the coverage on MSNBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, PBS, LATimes, WaPo, NYT, Google, The Guardian. Why not be mad and except that the majority of America is being fooled? Why not be mad at someone as disgusting as BO, actually has a real chance to take the Presidency and doesn't deserve it IN THE LEAST? Reagan is rolling over in his grave and so all the Founders.--'''Jpatt'''[[User:Jpatt| ]] 09:54, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

Voting Republican again this year. I know you're mad about what's going on, but it shows throughout the page. An encyclopedia can't be written from an angry point of view. Let me be specific:

1) "Obama and Elitism" plus "Obama and Islam" are not valid main introductory sections. Start with his early life.

2) His birth certificate gets its own section but his healthcare and tax plans don't? Focus on what's really important.

3) The "Insights" section is just a list of criticisms and belongs under a "Criticism" section. Categorize corectly.

4) Off-topic side-swipes: "He became a member of the Harvard Law Review, which uses racial quotas, in 1989". Why is "which uses racial quotas" in there? If it was a reason that he was chosen, say that. If it wasn't leave it out.

5) Unsubstantiated claims: "Obama's campaign has been financed largely by leftist donors opposed to the war and to the American military in general." Citation definitely needed.

You have several good sections in here: "Senate career", "Foreign policy experience", "Published criticism", "Religious affiliations". These are high-quality and reflect well on Conservapedia. The others do not.

See the reply from hsmom below as the kind of constructive, factual accuracy this page needs.

::This sounds like you're standard liberal bellyaching. The fact is that no real conservative Christian can vote for this man.

:::??!?! Trying to hold this article to some kind of standard is bellyaching? Would you like to address any of my points?

::::Your points is liberal talking points. The fact is that Barack Hussein Obama wants to talk with Iran without predeterminations, flip flops, and is close friends to an unrepentive TERRORIST. What more can you know?
:::::Trying to shift the focus on an ''encyclopedia page'' about a presidential candidate from hypothetical statements (his possible Islamic faith) and trivial matters (his birth certificate), to his actual stance on the issues is liberal bellyaching? If anything, we should be casting aside these trivial circumstances as beneath us and take the time to dissect each of his stances on the actual issues. That's what a real, dignified Conservative would do. Relying on ridiculous tactics such as these is asinine and cowardly. --[[User:FrankincenseMonster|FrankincenseMonster]] 16:21, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

==Nation of Islam==
''Obama's pastor of twenty-years, Rev. Wright, was originally a member with the Nation of Islam (likely always has been, see [[taqiyya]])'' Let's be careful not to confuse the Nation of Islam with the traditional Muslim faith - they are two quite different things. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 10:10, 7 October 2008 (EDT)

==57 Islamic states==

I attempted to make this article better by noting, as several other Conservapedia writers have, that "57 states" could be a reference to Heinz ketchup or simple a misstatement (Obama had visited 47 states), as well as the fact that there were not 57 Islamic states when Obama attended an Indonesian school. It was reverted. Why? Is this an encyclopedia, or a liberal hate blog? [[User:Egen|Egen]] 10:42, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

: Your edit was baseless, and probably politically motivated. The entry is factual and will remain that way. Obama has likely remained a Muslim long after attending grade school. Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:52, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: On the subject, I think someone should add the following line to your page: "The odds against Aschlafly's claim to be named 'Andrew Schlafly' being truthful are less than 1 billion to one, as fewer than 6 people in the world are named Andrew Schlafly." Don't put malarkey like this on a serious encyclopedia page and defend it as being "factual". I remind you of Conservapedia Commandments 1, 2, and 5. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 11:04, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: In any case, I fail to see how it is "baseless" to note, as other Conservapedia writers have, that "57 states" cannot possibly be a reference to "57 Islamic states" and probably has a more benign origin. It does not to any good to assert that anyone who disagrees with you probably does so because they are "politically motivated" (read: liberal) when many conservatives have expressed disdain for this point. I doubt that the majority of Conservapedia editors would disagree with my edit. This encyclopedia is not a personal blog for you or for anyone else. Therefore, I am reinserting the edit. If anyone can provide proof that Obama was referring to the "57 Islamic states" which did not exist when he was growing up '''and''' provide proof that that is what he was referring to, I'll retract this. [[User:Egen|Egen]] 12:16, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

::: Egen - I entirely agree with you. A lot of people here think this is a redstate comments thread rather than, as it says in the top left corner, "the trustworthy encyclopedia". Snopes on this one: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/57states.asp

==Biased==
Isn't this site supposed to be unbaised?-[[User:Red4tribe|Red4tribe]] 16:46, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
:Welcome to Conservapedia[[User:Pluto|Pluto]] 18:19, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== "born, allegedly, in Honolulu" ==

there's no doubt he was ''born''. that should read "allegedly born in Honolulu"

God bless. [[User:JohnBarma|JohnBarma]] 13:30, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

== Favorite black leader ==

I've just finished reading Dreams from My Father. I don't recommend it. But one thing I missed was a reference to Malcolm X being Obama's "favorite black leader". He speaks highly of Malcolm X's autobiography, but doesn't like the "religious baggage" that the guy "discarded in later life". Is the reference here correct? [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 17:10, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Vaccine

2008-10-10T12:27:45Z

Marcdaniels: curious suggestion there is a value judgment in the term

[[Image:Vaccine.jpg|right|thumb|350px|[[Avian flu]] vaccine development]]
A '''vaccine''' is an injection of a specialized [[protein]] designed to create an immunity to a particular disease (see [[antigen]]). The primary mechanism that a body uses to identify infections is a protein molecule called an [[antibody]]. The ingredients of vaccines used today are available from the [[CDC]].<ref>http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf</ref>

Traditionally a few highly tested vaccines were mandatory for children to protect against deadly or severe diseases, such as [[smallpox]] and [[polio]]. In the 1990s, vaccine manufacturers began introducing and persuading states to require numerous additional vaccines for non-deadly and even sexually transmitted diseases. About one-third of the states have philosophical exemptions entitling parents to decline the vaccines; 48 out of 50 states have religious exemptions; all states have medical exemptions, but they are hardest to obtain.<ref>http://www.nvic.org/state-site/state-exemptions.htm</ref><ref>http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/cc-exem.htm</ref>

Since the adoption of mass vaccination programmes, many diseases have been curbed. [[Smallpox]], a deadly disease responsible for the deaths of millions, has been mostly eliminated through vaccination. Responsible for an estimated 300 to 500 million deaths worldwide in the 20th century, effective vaccination programs of the 19th and 20th century were effective at curbing the disease, and in 1979 the World Health Organization declared smallpox to be eradicated.

[[Polio]], for example, killed over 3,000 people in the United States in 1952 [http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsus/VSUS_1952_2.pdf], and inflicted such noted persons as President [[Franklin Delano Roosevelt]], actor [[Alan Alda]], and musician [[Itzak Perlman]]. When doctors began using a vaccine to fight polio, it practically eradicated the disease in the developed world.

Other diseases that have been curbed since the invention of vaccines include [[measles]], [[mumps]], [[rubella]], and [[typhoid]].

If the body has a particular antibody for a particular disease it can identify the infection early on and the [[immune system]] can destroy it. Vaccines work by exposing the body to a form of the disease in such a way that it will not cause illness but allow antibodies to develop. This confers a level of immunity to the organism vaccinated.<ref>http://www.howstuffworks.com/immune-system7.htm How stuff works: Antibodies</ref>

There are four major types of vaccines and they are differentiated by what antigen is used. Live attenuated vaccines are created from the actual disease in question, however before injection the [[pathogen]] is [[attenuated]] (weakened) by growing successive generations of lines in poor nutrient conditions. It is possible for these vaccines to still cause an infection. Inactivated vaccines are created from pathogens that have been killed, usually with the use of a preservative [[formaldehyde]]. Toxoid vaccines are created by using toxins produced by the pathogen, before injection these toxins are exposed to heat and chemicals that eliminate their effect, [[antibodies]] will still be produced to these deactivated toxins. Finally, component vaccines use pieces of the pathogen in the injection. These pieces often of identifying protein segments that allow antibodies to be produced.<ref>http://www.drspock.com/article/0,1510,4866,00.html The Main Types of Vaccine </ref>

==Adverse Events==
Only live attenuated vaccines can still cause infection. All vaccines vaccines can cause illness, but this is commonly a hypersensitivity reaction (similar to an allergic response), not due to the disease itself. Very rarely a serious disease known as [[eczema vaccinatum]] can emerge. Vaccines that use pieces of pathogens often use a [[carrier virus]] in the injection. Those with very weak immune systems that are exposed to such a vaccine can become infected with the carrier virus and develop [[eczema]]. A recent case of this was reported in the United States after a military man was vaccinated with small pox and his two year old son became ill. <ref> http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/183349/soldier_infects_toddler_son_with_lifethreatening.html AP article on eczema vaccinatum </ref>

A number of vaccination reactions are deemed serious enough to contraindicate further vaccinations of the same type. These include extensive swelling and redness at the injection site, prolonged fever, [[bronchospasm]] and laryngeal [[edema]](narrowing of the airways causing difficulty in breathing), and collapse/seizures with or without unconsciousness and/or encephalitis.<ref>[http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=2067071044 General Practice Notebook - vaccine reactions]</ref>

==Influenza Vaccine==

The flu vaccine is an example of modern vaccination. Due to the change in [[allele]] frequency over time in the population of the influenza virus, new influenza vaccines are created each year. According to the [http://www.cdc.gov/ CDC] <ref>"Inactivated Influenza Vaccine, What you need to know," a publication of the Center for Disease Control, 2006. Available online at: http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/VIS/vis-flu.pdf</ref>,
<blockquote>
Influenza viruses are always changing. Therefore, influenza vaccines are updated every year, and an annual vaccination is recommended.
</blockquote>
Since production of the vaccine must begin many months before the influenza season starts models of the population genetics of the virus must be produced. <ref>http://www.nature.com/nrd/journal/v5/n3/full/nrd1988.html Influenza vaccines </ref> The success of vaccinations programs is dependent on the accuracy of these predictions.<ref>http://www.nature.com/news/2003/030324/full/030324-5.html Flu changes modeled </ref> The [[National Institute of Health]] recently assigned $26 million dollars to establish a research center to better develop molecular models of influenza. <ref> http://www.spiritindia.com/health-care-news-articles-8024.html $26 million NIH contract to establish new flu/bird flu Center of Excellence </ref>

==Herd immunity and mandatory vaccination==
A concept in vaccine planning is "[[herd immunity]]". When a certain percentage of a population is vaccinated, those within the population who are not vaccinated are protected from the disease. If 90 percent of a population is immune, then the chances that a carrier of the disease will come into contact with a non-immune member of the population (or "herd") is low. <ref>http://www.mathepi.com/maindir/herd.html The mathematics of herd immunity</ref>. Herd immunity is the goal of most vaccination programs as it is the point where a disease can start to be eliminated altogether from a population.

For example, in 1962 Japan instituted mandatory vaccination against influenza in school children. This continued until 1987 when the program was changed to optional; it was abandoned in 1994. Approximately 85 percent of children were estimated to have been vaccinated.<ref>{{hnb|Glezen|2004}}</ref> Several studies examined the mortality rates due to influenza during this period of time and revealed that the death rates due to influenza in all population groups was drastically decreased, including older adult populations. Since there was no increased rate of vaccination in these populations, the decreased mortality was caused by herd immunity effects of vaccinating so many children. <ref>http://www.newsrx.com/newsletters/Vaccine-Weekly/2001-04-11/200104113335VW.html Mandatory Vaccination of Japanese Schoolchildren Demonstrates "Herd Immunity" </ref> Many researchers have written that this and other evidence argues strongly for mandatory vaccination programs world wide as a means of controlling many diseases and preventing a [[pandemic]].<ref> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1360502 Herd Immunity</ref>

==Mandatory vaccination==
The USA has mandatory vaccination according to an official CDC schedule. Enforcement is left to the states. Most states have medical and religious exemptions. Some states make it very easy to opt out of vaccines, while other states strictly enforce compliance for school attendance. The difference in vaccination rates between these states is actually very slight, and not nearly enough to affect herd immunity.

== Adverse Reactions ==
{{See also|Vaccine Injury Compensation Program|Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System}}
Vaccines are not completely harmless, and many have a significant morbidity and mortality associated with them. Postvaccinial encephalitis is a known hazard of [[smallpox]] vaccine, for example. A recently-introduced vaccine against [[human papilloma virus]], the [[causative agent]] of [[cancer]] of the [[uterus|uterine]] [[cervix]], has now been linked to a number of sudden deaths reported within days of its administration.<ref name=GardasilMM>Cockcroft, Lucy, "[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/29/njab129.xml Cervical cancer drug Gardasil linked to deaths]," ''[[London]] Daily Telegraph'', October 29, 2007. Retrieved November 10, 2007.</ref>

Bulging or swollen [[fontanelle]]s have been linked with many vaccines commonly given to infants, such as the [[diptheria]]-[[tetanus]] (DPT) vaccine. Many families, out of concern for their child's health, have sought legal justice for the potential health damage.<ref>http://legaljustice4john.com/fontanellebulging.htm</ref>

== See also ==
*[[HPV vaccine]]
*[http://www.909shot.com/ National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC)], a non-profit anti-vaccination organization
*[[Vaccine Injury Compensation Program]]
*[[Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System]]

==References==
<references/>
== Sources ==
*{{Harvard reference
| Surname = Balbier
| Given = Thomas E., Jr.
| Year = 1999
| Date = 1999-09-28
| Title = Statement on National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program by Thomas E. Balbier, Jr.
| Publisher = United States Government
| URL = http://www.hhs.gov/asl/testify/t990928b.html
}} retrieved on 2008-01-21
*{{Harvard reference
| Surname = Glezen
| Given = W. Paul
| Year = 2004
| Title = Control of Influenza
| volume = 31(1)
| pages = 39-41
| Publisher = Texas Heart Institute Journal
| URL = http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=387431
}} retrieved on 2008-01-21
*{{Harvard reference
| Surname = Pear
| Given = Robert
| Year = 2008
| Date = 2008-01-21
| Title = Threats and Responses: Leagal Risks; For Victims of Vaccine, Winning Case Will Be Hard
| Publisher = [[The New York Times]]
| URL = http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E2DC1E3AF937A25751C1A9649C8B63
}} retrieved on 2008-01-21
*{{Harvard reference
| Surname = United States Department of Justice
| Given = USDOJ
| Year = 2000
| Date = 2000-11-27
| Title = About the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program
| Publisher = United States Government
| URL = http://www.usdoj.gov/civil/torts/const/vicp/about.htm
}} retrieved on 2008-01-21
*{{Harvard reference
| Surname = United States Department of Health and Human Services
| Given = HRSA
| Year = 2008
| Title = Filing a Claim with the VICP
| Publisher = United States Government
| URL = http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/filing_claim.htm
}} retrieved on 2008-01-21
*{{Harvard reference
| Surname = United States Department of Health and Human Services
| Given = HRSA
| Year = 2007
| Date = 2007-04-20
| Title = National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program (VICP) About VICP
| Publisher = United States Government
| URL = http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/
}} retrieved on 2008-01-21



[[Category:Biology]]
[[Category:Medicine]]

User talk:Marcdaniels

2008-10-10T12:25:53Z

Marcdaniels:

Don't insert into entries your claims about what you think most people think. Your edits are non-encyclopedic, to say the least. Thanks and Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:27, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

Just to be clear, are you disagreeing with the substance of the claim, or asking for a citation? Seems odd for a Christian encyclopedia to present Mormon beliefs as fact. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 08:25, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

Autism

2008-10-08T16:00:40Z

Marcdaniels: removing bias

'''Autism''' is a neurological disorder, characterized by inability to interact socially; linguistic disability; intense, narrow interests; and repetitive behaviors. These are called stims or stimming. They include walking on tiptoes, flapping of hands, staring at objects for a prolonged period of time, oral fixation, spinning in circles, and other repetitive activities. Other signs include lack of eye contact, playing alone, lack of words, or in the case of Asperger's syndrome possessing a large vocabulary and intense knowledge of specialized areas but a lack of social skills or inappropriate behavior. It is usually detected by the time a child is four years old but in some cases, autism goes unnoticed into adulthood. There are many intelligent and talented autistic individuals.<ref>Temple Grandin, "Thinking in Pictures, Expanded Edition: My Life with Autism" amazon link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0307275655/ref=wl_it_dp/103-3432247-4184629?ie=UTF8&coliid=I1CWNFSEUCIXQL&colid=49VN3HJC5OQK</ref>

Diagnoses of autism has increased from 1:10,000 in 1988 to 1:166 people today. Some estimates are as high as 1 in 150 people <ref>http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/faq_prevalence.htm</ref>, and it has been rising. Among boys, 1 in 94 has the disorder. In New Jersey, which has the highest rate in the nation, 1 in every 60 boys has autism and 1 in every 94 children is affected.

It is claimed by some that a [[mercury]] preservative used in [[vaccines]], thimerosal, is the cause of injury in many recipients, including a cause of increase in autism rates.<ref>[http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:952MmAWeCOsJ:www.jpands.org/vol8no1/geier.pdf+jpands&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a Thimerosal in Childhood Vaccines,
Neurodevelopment Disorders, and Heart Disease in the United States]</ref> Thimerosal is a inorganic form of mercury that was widely used as a preservative, but since FDA and CDC action in 1999 and 2000 thimerosal usage in vaccines has been either removed or lessened to around 0.01% in [[vaccines]] that still use it, including influenza and DT vaccines. There has been no subsequent decline in US autism rates (indeed the opposite).

Autism is a spectrum disorder which means there is a range in how it affects different people. There is the fragile x syndrome, Asperger's syndrome, pdd nos, mild autism, moderate autism, severe autism, and some [[idiot savants]]. Autistic children will not all act like the character portrayed in the movie ''[[Rain Man]]''. Nor are all autistic children uncaring or unable to show emotion, in fact many are very caring.

Autism was first identified in 1943 by Dr. [[Leo Kanner]]. Dr. Hans Asperger also did some research into autism at about the same time and discovered Asperger's syndrome. As early as the 90's many psychotherapies were used to treat it. One very effective treatment, though not a cure, is Applied Behavioral Analysis (ABA therapy).

==Theories of causes of autism==
As noted above, there is a strong interest in whether a possible link exists between the increasing numbers of people being diagnosed with autism, and the use of thimerosal (which contains mercury) as a preservative in vaccines.

Simon Baron-Cohen, director of the Autism Research Centre at the [[University of Cambridge]] (U.K.) notes the strong evidence that males and females are hardwired for different behavior (in contrast to the [[politically correct]] notion that these different behaviors are just "[[gender role]]s"), with boys tending to be stronger at mechanics, categorizing and systemizing information, mathematics, etc. and girls stronger at emotionalizing and empathizing. He has proposed that autism is merely an extreme version of the male brain type, in which the (female) urge to empathize is nearly absent and the brain is almost entirely hardwired for the (male) tasks of systemizing.<ref>Baron-Cohen, Simon. ''The Essential Difference'', Basic Books 2003.</ref>

Leo Kanner in a 1949 paper identified "parental coldness" and a "lack of maternal warmth" in the parents of autistic children, leading to the term ''refrigerator mother''. The theory here is autism is caused by incomplete [[socialization]] during early childhood because of emotionally cold parents. The book ''Toxic Psychiatry'' by Peter Briggin notes that the frigid mother theory of autism was abandoned in recent years due to pressure groups (whose sense of [[political correctness]] was offended because the theory supposedly "blames" parents for the condition), not for any valid scientific reasons.<ref>Briggin, Peter R. ''Toxic Psychiatry'', New York: St. Martin's Press, 1991.</ref>

Lenny Schafer, editor of the ''Schafer Autism Report'', rejects outright the current characterization of mild social retardation (such as "Asperger's syndrome") as forms of autism. He notes that autism is a disability, and if a person is not disabled from participation in society by their condition, in such areas as being able to hold a job or communicate, including communication over the Internet, they are not autistic and should not be diagnosed as such. He accordingly rejects that there can be such a thing as autistic self-advocacy, as anyone who is truly autistic would not have that ability.<ref>http://www.sarnet.org/</ref>

All four of the above theories are denied by (and often disparaged by) [[liberal]]s, who have been promoting autism and the milder variant "Asperger's syndrome" as one of their latest variants on [[identity politics]], even going so far as to claim autism should not be cured because autistics were "born that way" and it is "who they are". As with various theories of the causes of [[homosexuality]] that do not fit with the politically correct notions of "born that way" and "who they are", [[liberal]]s attack and disparage any theories of autism -- frigid mothers, thimerosal, inherently different male and female brain types -- that do not fit with their standards of political correctness. Just as they insist that homosexuality is not an illness and does not need a cure, they are now insisting that autism does not need a cure either (and they are insisting the same thing with numerous other diseases, including [[deafness]]<ref>http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/458tonjc.asp Allen, Charlotte. "Identity Politics Gone Wild", ''[[Weekly Standard]]'' volume 12 issue 28</ref>). ''Wired'' magazine has gone so far as to promote autism as a "geek syndrome", or essentially as a form of identity-politics-for-computer-nerds.<ref>http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aspergers_pr.html</ref>. At the fringe those favoring this interpretation of autism have coined new terminology, including "neurodiversity" (trying to make autism part of the currently fashionable "[[diversity]]" buzzword), and "neurotypical" (their cheeky, disparaging term for those without autism.)

==External Links==

#http://www.autismspeaks.org/
#http://www.autismdigest.com/
#http://www.nationalautismassociation.org/
#http://www.autism-society.org/site/PageServer
#http://www.autismlink.com/

==References==
<references/>

[[category:psychology]]
[[category: medicine]]

Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome

2008-10-08T15:54:17Z

Marcdaniels: consistency

'''Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome''' (usually referred to as '''AIDS''') is a collection of diseases and symptoms caused by long-term infection with the[[HIV| Human Immunodeficiency Virus]].

== Definition ==

According to the CDC's 1993 guidelines, <ref>http://www.cdc.gov</ref><ref>http://www.merckmedicus.com/ppdocs/us/hcp/content/merck/hiv/hivaids/aidsdefi.htmAIDS is defined </ref>as follows:
HIV infection ''plus'' any of the following:
*[[CD4]] count less than 200 or
*CD4 percentage less than 14% of total lymphocytes or
*Any of the following illnesses: pulmonary TB, recurrent pneumonia, invasive cervical cancer.
*Expanded definition including 23 clinical conditions published elsewhere<ref>http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/00018871.htm</ref>

The World Health Organization uses a different staging method for HIV disease. <ref>http://www.aids-ed.org/aetc/aetc?page=cm-105_disease</ref>

== History ==

The illness was first recognized in the early 1980s<ref>New England Journal of Medicine, Volume 344:1764-1772 June 7, 2001 Number 23</ref> as homosexual men presented to their doctors with a rare lung disease called ''Pneumocystis carinii'' pneumonia (PCP)<ref>Pneumocystis pneumonia -- Los Angeles. MMWR Morb Mortal Wkly Rep 1981;30:250-252)</ref>. Early on, the "[[gay disease]]" took on a variety of names, including "gay cancer" and "Gay-related immune deficiency" (GRID). The [[Centers for Disease Control]] noticed an increase in requests for drugs needed to treat this illness and launched an epidemiological investigation.

Although the first cases of the disease probably go back to the 1950s, the epidemic was not recognized until the early 1980s [http://www.avert.org/his81_86.htm]. The early epidemic occurred in two main branches; in the US and other developed countries, and in sub-Saharan Africa. In the US, the early epidemic was primarily spread by homosexual sex, intravenous drug use, and blood transfusions (Prior to the introduction of testing). In Africa, transmission was almost exclusively by heterosexual sex. Currently, most new infections worldwide are spread by promiscuous heterosexual sex and prostitution.

== Natural History ==

After infection with [[HIV]], the virus quickly replicates in lymphatic tissue and travels through the blood to infect most areas of the body. The largest consequence of this is the "hijacking" of certain immune cells, especially so-called T-Helper, or CD-4, cells. Early in the infection, the immune system holds the infection at bay, often causing "Acute Retroviral Syndrome", a flu-like illness. Patients often have swollen lymph nodes. After approximately 8-10 years of infection, the immune system begins to lose its battle. This is primarily seen in the loss of numbers of CD4 cells, however the changes are somewhat more complex. When the CD4 cell level drops low enough, AIDS becomes apparent.
The first symptoms of the illness are generally night sweats, weight loss, and oral thrush.

== Opportunistic Infections (OIs) ==

The hallmark of AIDS is the appearance of ''opportunistic infections'', meaning infections with organisms that do not usually cause human disease, unless given the right "opportunity". This opportunity is the reduction in cell-mediated immunity, first seen in patients with certain cancers or on anti-rejection drugs for organ transplantation.
These infections include:

*Pneumocystis jiroveci, previously [[Pneumocystis carinii]]
*[[Candida albicans]] (the cause of thrush and vaginal yeast infections)
*Staphylococcus aureus (primarily causes skin infections)
*[[Toxoplasma gondii]]
*[[Cytomegalovirus]]
*Streptococcus pneumoniae (the primary cause of pneumonia in AIDS patients)
*[[Mycobacterium tuberculosis]] (TB)
*Mycobacterium avium complex (atypical mycobacterium)
*Cryptococcus neoformans (a cause of meningitis)
*Epstein Barr virus (leads to a type of lymphoma)
*Human herpesvirus-8 (causes Kaposi's sarcoma)

== Dissent ==
Among the world's medical professionals and biologists, there is almost complete agreement that HIV causes AIDS. In this, Koch's postulates have been clearly fulfilled, and basic science research has shown the same. Specific drugs have been developed that treat HIV infection and AIDS, helping show the causal relationship. That being said, there is a vocal minority of people, scientists and non-scientists alike, who do not believe that HIV causes AIDS. Foremost among these is Dr. Peter Duesberg. Details about these "re-thinkers" and their arguments can be found at several websites, but not in any reliable peer-reviewed journals:

http://www.reviewingaids.org/awiki/index.php/Main_Page

==God's curse==

Various figures including prominant televangalist [[Jerry Falwell]] have asserted that AIDS is 'God's curse on homosexuals', however this fails to take into account that the syndrome can and does affect many other groups, including innocent children (who have contracted the HIV virus while in the womb or through contaminated blood transfusions).

==Notes==
<references/>

==External Links==
*[http://newsbusters.org/blogs/robert-knight/2007/12/01/some-questions-media-wont-ask-today-about-aids Some Questions the Media Won't Ask Today About AIDS], Robert Knight, [[NewsBusters]], December 1, 2007

[[Category:Diseases]]
[[Category:Medicine]]
[[Category:Syndromes]]

Joseph Smith

2008-10-08T15:39:11Z

Marcdaniels: this article credulously accepts fringe claims that few Christians support

[[Image:Joseph Smith.gif|thumb|right|150px|Joseph Smith, Jr.]]
'''Joseph Smith, Jr.''' (1805 - 1844) was the founder and 1st [[President]] of the [[Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]]. Joseph Smith was the first [[prophet]], [[seer]] and [[revelator]] of the church. Joseph was born on December 23, 1805 in [[Sharon]], [[Vermont]].
==Visions==
[[Image:First Vision.jpg|thumb|125px|Joseph Smith's First Vision]]
After reading {{Bible ref|book=James|chap=1|verses=5|version=KJV}}, Joseph decided to ask God which church he should join. In the Spring of 1820, Joseph said he saw [[God]] and [[Jesus]] in a vision.<ref>[http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,959-1,00.html The First Vision] Mormon.org</ref> Joseph claimed to have been visited by an [[angel]] named [[Moroni]] from 1823 to 1827. According to Smith's account, Moroni showed Joseph where to find buried gold plates, and the plates contained the full gospel of Jesus Christ in "reformed Egyptian" (a language which few, if any non-Mormon, believes ever existed). Smith claimed to have translated these gold plates by the inspiration of God, and he published them in 1830 as the [[Book_of_Mormon|Book of Mormon]].<ref>[http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1293-1,00.html Translation of the Book of Mormon] Mormon.org</ref> It was later claimed that, on May 15, 1829, the resurrected [[John the Baptist]] appeared to Joseph and [[Oliver Cowdery]] and gave them the authority to [[baptism|baptize]].<ref>[http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1291-1,00.html Authority to baptize] Mormon.org</ref> In 1829 the [[apostle]]s [[Peter]], [[James the Apostle|James]], and [[John]] gave them the authority to restore Christ's Church.<ref>[http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,1292-1,00.html Authority of Apostles] Mormon.org</ref>

Joseph Smith also worked on a revision of the [[King James Bible]], known as the [[Inspired Version]] of the Bible. It was not published until after his death.

==Death==
Joseph and his brother [[Hyrum]] were killed by an angry mob in [[Carthage]], [[Illinois]] on June 27, 1844.<ref>[http://www.josephsmith.net/portal/site/JosephSmith/menuitem.da0e1d4eb6d2d87f9c0a33b5f1e543a0/?vgnextoid=ad10001cfb340010VgnVCM1000001f5e340aRCRD&locale=0 Martyr for God] JosephSmith.net</ref>

==References==
<references/>

==External Links==
*[http://www.josephsmith.net/portal/site/JosephSmith JosephSmith.net] - The official web site on Joseph Smith by the LDS Church.
*[http://www.mormon.org/learn/0,8672,957-1,00.html "Who was Joseph Smith?"] - At Mormon.org

{{DEFAULTSORT:Smith, Joseph}}
[[Category:Religious People]]
[[Category:LDS Church]]

Jonestown Massacre

2008-10-08T15:35:16Z

Marcdaniels: /* November 18 */

The '''Jonestown Massacre''' took place on November 18, 1978, in a settlement in northern [[Guyana]], where 914 members of the People's Temple cult committed mass suicide under the leadership of Reverend Jim Jones, including five people murdered at a nearby airstrip.

==History==
===Jim Jones===
James Warren Jones was born on May 13, 1931 in Lynn, Indiana, the only child of James Thurmond and Lynetta Jones. He was an average child in elementary school, but in high school he was among the top of his class due to a high IQ. He got along well with others, but he was charismatic and had learned how to manipulate and control them to his advantage. Biographies of favorite world leaders were read, among them [[Machiavelli]], [[Mohandas K. Gandhi | Gandhi]], [[Marx]], [[Stalin]], and [[Hitler]].

At the same time as high school and [[World War II]] had ended, Jones was in the streets preaching. Changing towns from Lynn to nearby Richmond, his message was one of racial equality, and he focused his efforts in the north side of town in a black residential area. He was married in June, 1949, and ordained a minister by 1953; his effective preaching style would come out in Columbus, Indiana later that year. Wanting his own congregation, he raised money by selling monkeys door-to-door, and rented a building in Indianapolis in a racially-mixed neighborhood where "Community Unity" was opened in 1954.

===People's Temple===
Jones' first congregation numbered twenty, but it was growing. His "faith healing" abilities, charisma, and inter-racial makeup caused large crowds to gather at Community Unity to hear him speak (officially, the rolls listed 700 members at the time); Jones' reputation grew as well, and soon the name was changed to "The People's Temple," reflecting not only its congregation but the social services it provided as well, among them a unique free restaurant which opened from the basement in 1960, giving meals to the homeless. In 1964, Jones was a fully-ordained minister under the Disciples of Christ.

Allegations of harassment and beatings began as early as 1960 as well, and Jones found himself the target of several minor investigations. Moving the group to Ukiah, California (one of several sites Jones discovered to be "survivable" in the event of a nuclear attack) in 1965, he stayed for a couple years; new converts could not be acquired there, so he had them moved to Redwood Valley a few miles to the north in 1969, then to San Francisco in 1970, where the liberal climate at the time attracted plenty of followers. Jones' congregation grew to a maximum of 3,000 members, but Jones would state he had thousands more.

In 1962 Jones and his wife Marceline (they were married in 1949) checked on the possibilities of moving the congregation out of the United States to British Guyana or Brazil in South America. Both stayed in Brazil for two years serving orphanages, as well as looking into gaining some land to establish a colony. Bad publicity had grown; the media was critical of Jones and his church, and defectors who left reported threats, beatings, and intimidation over the followers. Long before, Jones had left the concept of Christianity as found in the Bible; replacing it was a form of socialism which rejected Christ, using as his philosophy a pair of trademarks he used: "the end justifies the means" and a
"revivalistic embellishment of radical social critiques" (Hall, p.27). His religious cry for redemption was a mix of truth and lies about race, class, and the coming nuclear war.

====San Francisco politics====
Jones almost immediately was involved with [[San Francisco]] politics, being instrumental in the election of liberal [[George Moscone]] to the office of mayor in 1975; Jones in turn was given the lucrative post of housing commissioner. He met with then-candidate for vice president [[Walter Mondale]], and would speak with other leading Democrats at their San Francisco headquarters after the election in 1976, among them First Lady [[Rosalynn Carter]] and California governor [[Jerry Brown]]. [[Harvey Milk]], a leading gay politician in San Francisco would say to Jones: "Rev Jim, It may take me many a day to come back down from the high that I reach today. I found something dear today. I found a sense of being that makes up for all the hours and energy placed in a fight. I found what you wanted me to find. I shall be back. For I can never leave." [http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Articles/sawyer.htm] In support of Jones when the allegations of abuse surfaced, both Mayor Moscone and Milk would write letters to [[President Carter]] and agencies concerned; Moscone would publicly deny the allegations ever took place and prevented a local investigation from happening.

==Threats and intimidation==
A Congressional fact-finding committee was set up to investigate Jones after the massacre on November 18, 1978, and what was found was disturbing. The conclusion was that he was "first and foremost a master of [[mind control]]," which he used on his followers to serve his needs and whims; this was practiced in Indiana, the committee discovered, and perfected in California. Among the tactics he practiced with engineered precision are the following recognized strategies of [[brainwashing]]:
*Isolation from all vestiges of former life, including and especially all sources of information, and substituting himself as the single source of all knowledge, wisdom, and information;
*An exacting daily regimen requiring absolute obedience and humility extracted by [[deception]], intimidation, threats, and harassment;
*Physical pressure, ranging from deprivation of food and sleep to the possibility and reality of severe beatings. As a complement to the physical pressures, he exerted mental pressures on his followers which he subsequently relieved in an effort to demonstrate and establish his omnipotent "powers." For example, he inculcated fictional fears which he would eventually counterpoint and dispel and thereby establish himself as a "savior." One of his favorite tactics was to generate and then exploit a sense of [[guilt]] for clinging to life's luxuries, for wanting special privileges, and for seeking recognition and reward;
*So-called "[[struggle meetings]]" or [[catharsis]] sessions in which recalcitrant members were interrogated, required to confess their "wrongdoing," and then punished with alternate harshness and leniency. [[Interrogation]] could be gentle and polite, but more often it involved harassment, humiliation, revilement, and degradation. Vital to this strategy were two of Jones' favorite techniques. The first involved an exhaustive and detailed record for each member kept on file cards and generated by his vast intelligence network. A member would suddenly be confronted by Jones with knowledge of some action he was unaware had been observed. Jones would stage his "mystic" awareness of that action and then direct the outcome to his desired end. The second technique was to establish in each of his followers a mistrust of everyone else. Consequently, no one dared voice a negative view-even to the closest family member or friend-for fear of being turned in. Often as not, trusted aides were directed to test individuals by expressing some comment critical of Jones or the lifestyle in [[Jonestown]] to see if the person would report the incident. The end result was that no one person could trust another. As a result everyone feared expressing even the slightest negative comment. The system was so effective that children turned in their own parents, brothers informed on sisters, and husbands and wives reported on spouses.
*Requiring People's Temple members to contribute as much as 25 percent of their income and sign over to the People's Temple their properties and other assets;
*At times dictating marriage between unwilling partners and at other times not allowing cohabitation between married couples;
*Undermining and breaking a child's ties with parents. In progressive degrees the child was led to mistrust the parents and become more and more secretive in his actions and evasive to his parent's questions;
*As a symbol of their trust in him, followers were required to sign statements admitting [[homosexuality]], theft, and other self-incriminating acts; often as not People's Temple members would also sign blank pages which could be filled in later. Depending on Jones' need or objective, such documents were frequently used in attempts to defame defectors;
*Rumor spreading in an attempt to ruin reputations or generally implant [[disinformation]], thereby making true facts difficult if not impossible to establish;
*Infiltration of groups opposed to People's Temple and surveillance of suspected People's Temple enemies;
*Intense [[public relations]] efforts ranging from [[letter-writing campaigns]] to attempted control of [[news media]] in an effort to influence public opinion with a favorable image of People's Temple; like-wise, an aggressive program of seeking out political leaders and other influential members of a community in order to cull their favor and establish identification with them. [http://www.rickross.com/reference/jonestown/jonestown1.html]

==Guyana==
In 1974, Jones succeeded in getting land from [[Guyana]], independent from Britain since 1966, and began clearing it for his followers arrival in 1977. From there he could pitch his version of a socialist [[utopia]]; while in a [[socialist]] country he could be safe from the prying eyes of American investigators and be in absolute control of his followers. By the beginning of 1978, 1,000 of his flock were settled in Jonestown, clearing the land, planting crops, dancing in the pavilion, and listening to Jones on the loudspeaker at night reading [[Marxist philosophy]]. If anyone wanted to leave, they were verbally brow-beaten by Jones in front of the congregation, scolded for failing to obtain "permission" from the man everyone called "father". If that wasn't enough, their passports were confiscated on arrival and locked away.

Former People's Temple member Deborah Layton stated that "conditions had become so bad that half of Jonestown was ill with severe diarrhea and high fevers..." and yet they "were required to work in the fields from 7 AM to 6 PM six days per week and on Sunday from 7 AM to 2 PM" and the "food was woefully inadequate." Layton further stated Jones' paranoia, seeing "himself as the center of a [[conspiracy]]. The identity of the conspirators changed from day to day along with his erratic world vision. He induced the fear in others that, through their contact with him, they had become targets of the conspiracy. He convinced [[black]] Temple members that if they did not follow him to Guyana, they would be put into [[concentration camps]] and killed. [[White]] members were instilled with the belief that their names appeared on a secret list of [[enemies of the state]] that was kept by the [[C.I.A.]] and that they would be tracked down, [[torture]]d, imprisoned, and subsequently killed if they did not flee to Guyana." Jones was "...the [[reincarnation]] of...[[Lenin]], Jesus Christ [and]...had divine powers." Jonestown, she added, "was swarming with armed guards [and] no one was permitted to leave unless on a special assignment." [http://www.rickross.com/reference/jonestown/jonestown12.html]

Layton elaborated on the [[suicide]] ritual:
:''"At least once a week, Rev. Jones would declare a "white night", or state of emergency. The entire population of Jonestown would be awakened by blaring sirens. Designated persons, approximately fifty in number, would arm themselves with rifles, move from cabin to cabin, and make certain that all members were responding. A mass meeting would ensue. Frequently during these crises, we would be told that the jungle was swarming with mercenaries and that death could be expected at any minute."''
:''"During one "white night", we were informed that our situation had become hopeless and that the only course of action open to us was a [[mass suicide]] for the glory of socialism. We were told that we would be tortured by mercenaries if we were taken alive. Everyone, including the children, was told to line up. As we passed through the line, we were given a small glass of red liquid to drink. We were told that the liquid contained poison and that we would die within 45 minutes. We all did as we were told. When the time came when we should have dropped dead, Rev. Jones explained that the poison was not real and that we had just been through a loyalty test. He warned us that the time was not far off when it would become necessary for us to die by our own hands."'' [http://www.rickross.com/reference/jonestown/jonestown12.html]

===Ryan's visit===
Hearing of the many allegations regarding abuse, as well as hearing Layton's testimony and the mysterious death of a young man in 1976, U.S. Congressman [[Leo J. Ryan]] (D-California) led a [[fact-finding]] mission to Jonestown on November 15, 1978; included in his group was his staff member (and future Congresswoman) [[Jackie Speier]]; Richard Dwyer (deputy chief of mission at the U.S. embassy in [[Georgetown]]); Anthony Katsaris, Jim Cobb, Sherwin Harris, and Carolyn Houston Boyd (representing Concerned Relatives, a group fighting Jones); reporters Tim Reiterman (''San Francisco Examiner''), Greg Robinson (''San Francisco Examiner'') Ron Javers (''San Francisco Chronicle''), [[Charles Krause]] (''Washington Post''), Don Harris, Steve Sung, Bob Brown, and producer Bob Flick (all from NBC). At first denied entrance to the camp, they were brought in on November 17, and treated with warm hospitality; song and dance was their entertainment, the reception of which caused Congressman Ryan to state to them that it seamed as if Jonestown "was the best thing that ever happened to them," resulting in thunderous applause.

==November 18==
Following breakfast, Ryan, Speier, and Dwyer continued their round of interviews with People's Temple members in the process of which they were approached by an individual who indicated to them secretly that she and her family wished to leave Jonestown; further notes were passed to the journalists as well. Don Harris took advantage of one of them and passed it to Jones as part of his interview with him; Jones became visibly agitated as a result, and as interviews went on around him between potential defectors, followers and the visitors, he was seen on camera whispering something to an aide.

By 3:00 in the afternoon, Ryan's entourage, as well as fifteen defectors, boarded a truck to take them to the Port Kaituma airstrip; among the defectors was a man named Larry Layton, who caused suspicion among the others that he was a Jones plant. Ryan himself had intended to stay an additional night, but an unsuccessful knife attack by a follower named Don Sly caused Dwyer to compell Ryan to leave.

The Congressional delegation, journalists, and defectors were all on the airstrip by 4:45 pm; the planes needed to fly them (a twin-engine Otter and a Cessna) out didn't arrive until after 5:00. Just after the Cessna arrived and was loaded, Layton opened fire with a hidden gun on the passengers at about the same time as the occupants of a People's Temple tractor and trailer pulled up near the aircraft and fired shotguns. Ryan, Robinson, and Harris were killed outright; Brown was hit, his camera still rolling, before another shot ended his life; a defector was also killed, and several others wounded. The Cessna was able to take off, while survivors on the ground hid in the jungle; the bodies would remain clustered aound the Otter until Guyanese authorities arrived hours later.

===The white night===
Jones by then had ordered his followers to be at the pavillion, exhorting them into the final "white night"; a vat of poison sat just outside, with adults told to gather paper cups and drink, and to pour the brew down their children's mouths. Armed guards were stationed about the perimeters to prevent escapes; despite this several did and survived. Those that refused to drink were set upon by guards with cyanide-filled syringes and killed. Caught on audio tape, Jones pushed his flock to drink his potion, exhorting them in his paranoid fantasy that the authorities would torture them all when they arrived:
:''"Well it's all over, all over. What a legacy, what a legacy. What's the Red Brigade doing, and one's that ever made any sense anyway? They invaded our privacy. They came into our home. They followed us 6,000 miles away. Red Brigade showed them justice. The Congressman's dead."''
:''"Please get us some medication. Simple. It's simple, there's no convulsions with it. It's just simple. Just, please, get it. Before it's too late. The G.D.F. will be here, I tell you, get movin', get movin', get movin'."''
:''"Don't be afraid to die. You'll see people land out here. They'll torture some of our children here. They'll torture our people. They'll torture our seniors. We cannot have this."''
:''"Are you going to separate yourself from whoever shot the Congressman? I don't know who shot him."'' [http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/Tapes/DeathTape/rose.html]

==Afterwards==
The body of Jim Jones was found inside the pavilion, near the steel vat, a single gunshot wound to his head. Guyanese military would do a preliminary body count of 440, and over the next few days broadcast over loudspeakers to those they thought were hiding in the jungle. But as they began removing bodies they saw additional ones underneath, bodies on top of bodies, and it was realized that nearly all the members of the commune were dead. The count stopped at 914.

Investigators and coroners had determined the following ingredients were in the vat placed near the pavillion:
*Grape-flavored Kool-Aid
*Thorazine, a sedative
*Demerol, a pain killer
*Phaerengen, an anti-histimine that promotes absorbtion of substances into the blood system
*Thalium, a tranquilizer
*Haliopareol, an antipsychotic sedative used to calm violent people
*Largatil, another sedative
*Potassium cyanide and potassium chloride, two poisons ("Suicide Brew Contained Mix of Drugs, Poison," ''The Washington Post'' Nov 23, 1978)

All the bodies were returned to the United States; most were claimed by relatives, while more than four hundred unidentified persons were buried in a mass grave in Oakland, California. Jones himself was cremated and his ashes scattered at sea.

==References==
*Nugent, John Peter. ''White Night'', Old Tappan, New Jersey; Macmillan Publishing Company, Inc. 1980.
*Reiterman, Tim. ''Raven'', New York, E.P. Dutton, Inc., 1982.
*Hall, John R. ''Gone from the Promised Land'', New Brunswick (USA) and Oxford (UK), Transaction Books, 1987.
*[http://www.rickross.com/reference/jonestown/jonestown49.html Transcript and audio of the "white night", November 18, 1978 (WARNING: disturbing content)]
*[http://www.rickross.com/groups/jonestown.html Rick A. Ross Institute's first-hand information on Jonestown]
*[http://www.rickross.com/reference/jonestown/jonestown12.html "Affidavit of Deborah Layton Blakey" June 15, 1978]
*[http://www.rickross.com/reference/jonestown/jonestown1.html House of Representitives Report on Jonestown--Findings]

====Video links====
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cyw0RpiJWoE NBC breaking news report broadcast at midnight, EST, November 19, 1978 (pt. 1)]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGKcCqr88rM&feature=related NBC breaking news report, November 19, 1978, (pt 2)]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSRKWb4LO3w&feature=related Jonestown Massacre News Reel, brief made 25 years later]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPcmfLxnm6c&feature=related Visit to Jonestown, 25 years later (pt 1)]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohurOmA-6BY&feature=related Visit to Jonestown, 25 years later (pt 2)]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fbCwTdp974&feature=related Visit to Jonestown, 25 years later (pt 3)]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8u4_vRzMo3A&feature=related Visit to Jonestown, 25 years later (pt 4)]

==Newspaper references==
====''The Washington Post''====
*"Calif. Rep. Ryan Is Reported Slain In South America; Congressman Reported Killed In S. America," By Peter Masley. ''The Washington Post'' Nov 19, 1978.
*"Mass Deaths Follow Attack on U.S. Group; 300-400 Bodies Found at Cult's Guyana Camp," By Charles A. Krause. ''The Washington Post'' Nov 20, 1978. p. A1 (2 pages) Abstract Page map Article image - PDF (326 K) Mark this document
*"Cult Head Leads 408 to Deaths in Suicide-Murders; Extolling 'Beauty of Dying,' Jones Led 408 in Killings," By Leonard Downie Jr. ''The Washington Post'' Nov 21, 1978.
*"Survivor: 'They Started With the Babies'; Jonestown: Bodies Bunched at the Altar," ''The Washington Post'' Nov 21, 1978.
*"Temple Cult, Guyana: An Odd Couple; Cult Was on Good Terms With Guyanese Leaders," By Karen DeYoung. ''The Washington Post'' Nov 21, 1978.
*"Before the Horror; Jones: 'I'm Defeated. I Might As Well Die'" By Charles A. Krause. ''The Washington Post'' Nov 22, 1978.
*"Many Missing in Jungle; Confusion Mounts Over Bodies at Guyana Cult Site," By Leonard Downie Jr. ''The Washington Post'' Nov 22, 1978. '
*"Suicide Brew Contained Mix of Drugs, Poison," ''The Washington Post'' Nov 23, 1978.
*"The Final Months: A Camp of Horrors; Jonestown: Experiment to Nightmare," ''The Washington Post'' Nov 23, 1978.
*"Death Toll in Jonestown Climbs to 775" ''The Washington Post'' Nov 25, 1978

====''Time Magazine''====
*[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,912249,00.html ''Nightmare in Jonestown'', December 4, 1978]

[[category:cults]]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

2008-10-08T15:33:33Z

Marcdaniels: /* Book of Mormon */

[[Image:Birmingham temple.jpg|right|Birmingham temple]]
The '''Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,'''<ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=ca07ae4af9c7e010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD Style Guide - The Name of the Church] LDS.org</ref> informally known as the '''Mormon Church''', was organized on 6 April 1830 in [[Fayette]], [[New York]], by [[Joseph Smith]]. As the Church grew, new converts gathered in [[Ohio]] and [[Missouri]]. While the Latter-day Saints in [[Kirtland]], Ohio, experienced persecution, those gathered in Missouri were repeatedly driven from town to town by angry mobs. Having been forced from Missouri in 1839, Church members gathered in Illinois and built a thriving city called [[Nauvoo]] in a swampy bend of the Mississippi River. However, within seven years they were again forced from their homes. Led by [[Brigham Young]], these pioneers fled 1,300 miles (2,092 kilometers) westward to the Salt Lake Valley, to escape persecution, and founded [[Salt Lake City]], [[Utah]], where the Latter-Day Saint Church continues to be headquartered today. The church has now expanded to more than 12.5 million members.<ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=86e6635a56d8f010VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=3e0511154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD LDS Newsroom - Early Church History]</ref><ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=d10511154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD Worldwide Church Statistics] LDS.org</ref>

Church members follow a law of health known as the [[Word of Wisdom]] that promotes healthy eating as well as avoiding tobacco, alcohol, coffee, tea, and illegal drugs.<ref>[http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/89 The Word of Wisdom] Scriptures.lds.org</ref>
The U.S religious landscape survey published in February 2008 shows that [[Mormon]]s have the largest families closely followed by Muslims. <ref> [http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/25/america/25usreligion.php U.S religious landscape survey]</ref>

==Beliefs==
Latter-day Saints (Mormons) believe in [[Christ]], and they strive to follow his example. They testify of Christ and their Church bears his name. From the organization of the LDS Church in 1830, the Church's doctrine focused on Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith, Jr. wrote in 1842 to ''Chicago Democrat'' editor John Wentworth a statement of Church beliefs. The first of these 13 doctrinal declarations, later called the Articles of [[Faith]], stated the following:<blockquote>“We believe in [[God]] the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the [[Holy Ghost]]."<ref>[http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=4ebe76e6ffe0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1 The Marvelous Foundation of Our Faith] from the October 2002 General Conference</ref></blockquote>

"The Articles of Faith are thirteen statements written by the Prophet Joseph Smith describing some of the basic teachings and ordinances of the Church". <ref>[http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1]</ref> <ref>[http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Curriculum/home%20and%20family.htm/gospel%20principles.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0 ''Gospel Principles'', The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Utah. 1997</ref> 

The LDS website states: <blockquote>"We believe in the Jesus of the [[New Testament]], and we believe what the New Testament teaches about Him. We do believe things about Jesus that other Christians do not believe, but that is because we know, through revelation, things about Jesus that others do not know."<ref>[http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/answer/0,9777,1601-1-56-16,00.html Is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a Christian church?] As answered on the LDS Church's website</ref></blockquote>

Members of the church believe that [[God the Father]] and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct glorified beings, that God, the Father of all spirits (even including Lucifer) and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith in a vision in the spring of 1820 in response to Joseph's prayer requesting to know which of the many local [[Christian]] denominations he should join himself with, and that They told him that he should join with none of them. The reason behind this direction was as follows, according to LDS beliefs: the organization or "church" put in place by Jesus Christ during His ministry both before and after His resurrection was meant to remain as long as there were faithful followers, although there was clear understanding that a "falling away" (see 2 Thessalonians 2:3) or apostasy would take place, destroying for a time this organization (though not destroying faith in Jesus Christ, which did persist). This church organization provided a structure whereby two key components were maintained: the Priesthood, and continuing and direct revelation from the ascended Jesus Christ to His chosen Apostles.

According to LDS beliefs, the Priesthood is the authority given by Jesus Christ to His [[Apostles]] and others, both to direct the Church, as well as to perform the associated and necessary ordinances, such as baptism by water immersion, and giving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Without this authority, it would be impossible to perform them in an authorized manner (see [[Book of Acts|Acts]] 8:18-23). This authority, in actuality a covenant of service, only placed on men and not at all a legitimate source of self-aggrandizement, could only be passed from one authorized holder to another worthy man through the laying on of hands. Thus, while although initially the full quorum of 12 Apostles was maintained (see Acts 1:15-26), the Apostles were killed one by one and the Lord, in His mercy, ceased to give these murderers further opportunity of condemning themselves as more Apostles were not chosen. Thus, without the Priesthood and without the continuing revelation that the Lord provided to His Apostles to lead and guide the church, it fell way, as had been prophesied.

Therefore, LDS doctrine teaches of the necessity of a complete restoration rather than simply a reformation, and for this reason, Joseph Smith was called by God to be the first prophet, in the same sense as [[Moses]], [[Isaiah]], or [[Peter]], since the times of the New Testament. Mormons believe that since Joseph Smith, the leaders of the Church, from Brigham Young to [[Gordon B. Hinckley]] today, were and are prophets, with the complete Priesthood authority (restored through the laying on of hands by first [[John the Baptist]] and then by Apostles Peter, [[James]] and [[John]]). Mormons revere these men just as the Biblical prophets are revered and in particular, honor Joseph Smith for being the man through whom God and Jesus Christ chose to restore Their church to the earth.

===JesusChrist.lds.org===
[[Image:FaithinChrist.jpg|thumb|right|A screen shot of the new JesusChrist.lds.org Web site.]]
The Church has a multimedia website about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ at [http://jesuschrist.lds.org/?cid=wpats1 JesusChrist.lds.org].

Elder [[Russell Nelson|Russell M. Nelson]] speaks about the new website ''JesusChrist.lds.org''. [http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/media/mediaplayer.swf?media=http://broadcast.lds.org/newsroom/video/flv/2-29-08_Nelson.flv&type=FLV video]

===Scriptures===

The four standard works of the Church are:
*The King James Version of the [[Bible]] - both the Old and New Testaments
*[[The Book of Mormon|The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ]] - Translation of the spiritual record of two ancient civilizations in the New World, one from the time of the [[Tower of Babel]] to about 600 B.C., and the other from 600 B.C. to 421 A.D. (It should be noted that there is almost nobody outside the Mormon Church who accepts that these civilisations existed)
*[[Doctrine and Covenants]] - Modern-day revelation as received by the Prophet Joseph Smith and other modern-day prophets
*[[Pearl of Great Price]] - Selection of translations, revelations and narrations from the Prophet Joseph Smith

====Book of Mormon====

President [[Gordon B. Hinckley]] said the following about the [[Book of Mormon]] in an October, 2002 [[General Conference]] address entitled "The Marvelous Foundation of Our Faith": <blockquote>"This remarkable book stands as a testimonial to the living reality of the Son of God. The Bible declares that 'in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established' (Matt. 18:16). The Bible, the testament of the Old World, is one witness. The Book of Mormon, the testament of the New World, is another witness.</blockquote><blockquote>I cannot understand why the Christian world does not accept this book. I would think they would be looking for anything and everything that would establish without question the reality and the divinity of the Savior of the world."<ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e74c4d4297602110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD Mormons Reflect Christianity in Lifestyle] as stated in the April, 2007 newsroom article at lds.org</ref></blockquote>

However there are few, if any, non-Mormons who accept the claim in the Book of Mormon that there were two advanced pre-Columbian civilisations in the New World.

===Restoration of the Priesthood===
Members of the [[Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]] believe that on May 15, 1829 A.D., the resurrected [[John the Baptist]] appeared to [[Joseph Smith|Joseph Smith, Jr.]] and [[Oliver Cowdery]] and conferred upon them the [[Aaronic priesthood]], which includes the authority to baptize.<ref>[http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/13 Doctrine and Covenants 13]</ref> Later, the resurrected Peter, James, and John appeared to them and conferred the [[Melchizedek priesthood]].
''''Italic text''''Italic text''''

==Special Witnesses of Christ==
These prophets and apostles have given their testimonies as special witnesses of Jesus Christ.

*President [[Gordon Hinckley|Gordon B. Hinckley (1910-2008)]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-gordon-b-hinckley-1910-2008-garden-tomb Special Witnesses of Christ], President Gordon B. Hinckley at the Garden Tomb, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref> <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-gordon-b-hinckley-1910-2008-sacred-grove Special Witnesses of Christ], President Gordon B. Hinckley at the Sacred Grove, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*President [[Thomas Monson|Thomas S. Monson]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-thomas-s-monson Special Witnesses of Christ], President Thomas S. Monson, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*President [[Henry Eyring|Henry B. Eyring]]
*President [[Dieter Uchtdorf|Dieter F. Uchtdorf]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-dieter-f-uchtdorf Special Witnesses of Christ], President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*President [[Boyd Packer|Boyd K. Packer]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-boyd-k-packer Special Witnesses of Christ], President Boyd K. Packer, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[L. Tom Perry]]
*Elder [[Russell Nelson|Russell M. Nelson]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/elder-russell-m-nelson Special Witnesses of Christ], Elder Russell M. Nelson, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[Dallin Oaks|Dallin H. Oaks]]
*Elder [[M. Russell Ballard]]
*Elder [[Joseph Wirthlin|Joseph B. Wirthlin]]
*Elder [[Richard Scott|Richard G. Scott]]
*Elder [[Robert Hales|Robert D. Hales]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/elder-robert-d-hales Special Witnesses of Christ], Elder Robert D. Hales, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[Jeffrey Holland|Jeffrey R. Holland]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/elder-jeffrey-r-holland Special Witnesses of Christ], Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[David Bednar|David A. Bednar]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/elder-elder-david-a-bednar Special Witnesses of Christ], Elder David A. Bednar, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[Quentin Cook|Quentin L. Cook]]
*Elder [[D. Todd Christofferson]]

==Wards==
[[Image:DCTemple.jpg|right|Washington DC Temple]]
Wards are geographically-defined congregations of the church. The Bishop is the spiritual leader of the ward and he serves with two counselors, all three chosen from among the body of the Ward. Bishops are usually called to serve for a period of five years and do so on a volunteer and unpaid basis, without formal ecclesiastical training, and while maintaining their secular professions.

The entire ward meets every week on Sunday to worship the Lord Jesus Christ and to receive counsel. The meetings are divided into three different hours:
*First hour - '''Sacrament meeting'''. Our main purpose in attending sacrament meeting is to renew our covenants through partaking of the sacrament and to worship our Heavenly Father through hymn singing and prayer. Sacrament meeting provides an opportunity for members to strengthen their faith, find inner peace and spiritual healing, receive inspiration, and be instructed in the gospel. A member of the bishopric begins the meeting welcoming all members and visitors. There is an opening hymn followed by an opening prayer (invocation). This is followed by conducting ward business where members are released and sustained from callings. Then the sacrament of bread and water is prepared, blessed by the priesthood, and passed to the congregation. The sacrament is a renewal of the covenants each member made at baptism to remember the Lord Jesus Christ and to keep his commandments. On the first Sunday of the month, the meeting conductor starts off the bearing of testimonies by offering his own personal testimony. A testimony is a personal witness that the gospel of Jesus Christ is true. As inspired by the Spirit, other members give their testimonies. On the other three Sundays, there are talks from members. The sacrament meeting concludes with a closing hymn and prayer.
*Second hour - '''Sunday School''', '''Primary''' and '''Nursery'''. Its purposes are to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ and strengthen individuals and families by encouraging them to study the scriptures, obey the commandments, receive the essential ordinances, and keep the associated covenants. All the adults and youth meet in Sunday School classes. Children younger than twelve and three or older attend Primary. Children who are at least 18 months old but who are not yet 3 years old on 1 January may attend nursery at the discretion of their parents.
:'''Adult Sunday School''' - The adults meet in several different classes. New members to the Church usually attend a Gospel Essentials class where they learn the basic teachings of the Church. Most of the other adults attend a Gospel Doctrine class where they are instructed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ from the scriptures. The main subjects rotate every four years: Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, and the last year is Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price and Church history. The bible used by Church members is the King James Version.
:'''Youth Sunday School''' - The youth meet in several different classes according to their ages. There are usually separate classes for twelve and thirteen year olds, fourteen and fifteen year olds and sixteen and seventeen year olds. When they turn eighteen, the member starts attending the adult classes.
:'''Primary''' - The purpose of Primary is to teach children the gospel of Jesus Christ and help them learn to live it.
:'''Nursery''' - The purpose of the nursery class is to provide a loving, safe, organized place where young children can increase their understanding of and love for Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, have positive experiences in a Church setting, and grow in feelings of self-worth.
*Third hour - '''Priesthood''', '''Relief Society''', '''Young Men''', '''Young Women''', '''Primary''' and '''Nursery'''. The men meet in Priesthood, the adult women meet in Relief Society,the male youth meet in Young Men, the female youth meet in Young Women and the children continue to meet in Primary or Nursery.
:'''Priesthood''' - The purpose of the priesthood meetings are to increase priesthood holders’ knowledge of the gospel; strengthen their dedication to becoming better husbands, fathers, sons, and neighbors; and help them become active participants in fulfilling the mission of the Church.
:'''Relief Society ''' - The purpose of Relief Society is to provide relief for the poor and needy and to bring people to Christ.
:'''Young Men''' - The purpose of the Young men group is to prepare the young men of the Aaronic Priesthood to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, to receive the ordinances of the temple, and to serve a full-time mission.
:'''Young Women''' - The purpose of the Young Women organization is to help each young woman, ages 12 to 18, "come unto Christ".

==General Conference==
The church holds a semi-annual General Conference (in April and October, five two-hour sessions over two days) during which members listen to spoken messages from the Prophet and President of the church, his two counselors, members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and other Church leaders. These messages are received by members of the church as modern-day revelation, just as the words of Peter were received by the followers of Jesus Christ in his day. Many members travel to Salt Lake City for the two-day conference, but the proceedings are broadcast via satellite throughout the world (as well as streamed on the internet) so that the entire church can participate.

The semi-annual conference was held in the Salt Lake Tabernacle for 132 years, but in 2000, the church completed construction of the Conference Center and has held the conference there since April 2000. The Conference Center's primary feature is an auditorium that seats 21,000.

==Controversy==

====Position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints====
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints consider themselves Christians. They worship Jesus Christ as their Creator (see John 1:3), their Savior and Redeemer, and ultimately their eternal Judge. They believe that the events described in the New Testament in reality occurred, including Jesus Christ's virgin birth, his sinless life and miraculous ministry, and his suffering, death, and literal resurrection, through which forgiveness of sin, salvation (understood in LDS doctrine to indicate resurrection and immortality, a free gift to all; see 1 Corinthians 15:22), and ultimately exaltation (returning to and eternally dwelling in the presence of God and Jesus Christ and becoming "joint-heirs with Christ"; see Romans 8:17), are made possible.

The eleventh of the above-mentioned thirteen articles of faith contains the following statement:
<blockquote>“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." (see Articles of Faith 1:11)</blockquote>

====African Americans and the Priesthood====
Mormons used to believe that black skin was the result of a divine curse.
Therefore, African Americans were banned from the priesthood until, in June 1978, President Spencer W. Kimball is said to have received a revelation extending priesthood ordination to all worthy males of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Official Declaration 2).
<ref name="Black">Emmanuel Abu Kissi, [http://byustudies.byu.edu/Reviews/Pages/reviewdetail.aspx?reviewID=117 Book review of Black and Mormon] BYU Studies Review, October 2006.</ref><ref> [http://www.pbs.org/mormons/themes/prohibition.html The Prohibition Against Blacks in the Priesthood], Public Broadcasting Service.</ref> <ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=36f2ce9566a43110VgnVCM100000176f620a____ LDS.org - Topic Definition - Priesthood Ordination before 1978]</ref>

The Book of Mormon attests that God invites “all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; . . . and all are alike unto God” (2 Nephi 26:33). In our present day the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles have stated that all human beings are created in the image of God and that each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of Deity. <ref>“The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” 23 Sept. 1995, published in Ensign, Nov. 1995</ref>

<blockquote>In the twentieth century, various Church leaders continued to offer possible reasons why a race of people was prohibited from holding the priesthood. One explanation, carried over from the previous century, stated that blacks were descendants of Cain, the first murderer, and therefore were denied the priesthood because of lineage. Another theory held that blacks were less valiant in the premortal existence and therefore had certain spiritual restrictions placed upon them during mortality. Priesthood denial was perceived to be one of these spiritual restrictions. But by mid-century, President David O. McKay stated, "There is not now, and there never has been, a doctrine in this Church that the negroes are under a divine curse. . . .It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice will some day be changed".<ref name="Black" /></blockquote>

===Views on Same-Gender Attraction===
In October 2007, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, wrote an article in the Ensign magazine entitled "Helping Those Who Struggle with Same-Gender Attraction". <ref>[http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=e5cbba12dc825110VgnVCM100000176f620a____ Helping Those Who Struggle with Same-Gender Attraction]</ref> In 2007, the Church published a pamphlet "God Loveth His Children", for those suffering from same-gender attraction. <ref>http://www.lds.org/topics/pdf/GodLovethHisChildren_04824_000.pdf God Loveth His Children</ref>

On June 7, 2006, ABC’s Nightline ran a story on members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who struggle with same-gender attraction. The Church published a response to the inaccuracies in the Nightline story. <ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=d4ec39628b88f010VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f5f411154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD Church Responds to Nightline Story on Mormons and Homosexuality]</ref>

The Church has a section on same-gender attraction on the Newsroom website. <ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=27f71f1dd189f010VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=726511154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD&vgnextfmt=tab1 Same-Gender Attraction]</ref>

===Polygamy===
Early ill will towards Mormons was sparked in part by its early practice of [[polygamy]], which was sanctioned from 1840 until 1890. Even though it was officially discontinued in 1890, Mormonism and polygamy continue to be associated in the minds of the uninformed.

A 1998 statement by current LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley states:
:This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. . . . If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church.<ref>[http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/answer/0,9777,1601-1-114-1,00.html What is the Church’s position on polygamy?] LDS website</ref>

However, in addition to "the" Church (the 12.5-million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), there continue to be small splinter groups, which also consider themselves to be Mormons and do practice polygamy. The most notable is the "Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (often called "Fundamentalist Mormons.") This group numbers about ten thousand. It broke from the Mormon church in 1890 over the issue of polygamy. It made headlines in 2006 and 2007, when leader Warren Jeffs was arrested by the FBI and indicted by a grand jury on charges of arranging illegal "marriages" between male followers and underage girls.

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==See Also==
*[[List of LDS temples]]

==External Links==

*[http://www.lds.org Official Church Website]
*[http://www.mormon.org Official Church Website for Investigators]
*[http://scriptures.lds.org Official Online Version of the LDS Scriptures]
*[http://www.familysearch.org/ Official Church Genealogy Website, "the largest collection of free family history, family tree and genealogy records in the world."]
*[http://www.ldschurchtemples.com "News, schedules, photographs, and interesting facts of the temples of the LDS Church"]
*[http://www.fairlds.org Mormon Apologetics]
*[http://www.maxwellinstitute.com BYU Theologians]
*[http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/ About Mormons]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints Wikipedia article] on the LDS Church
*[http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3282.html Are Mormons Conservative?]
*[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317272,00.html 21 Questions Answered About Mormon Faith]
*[http://www.moroni10.com/protestants.html Why Protestants Agree With Mormons (They Just Don’t Realize It)], Kelly Bingham, December 7, 2007
*[http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/what-you-will-find-when-you-step-inside-a-mormon-chapel What You Will Find When You Step Inside a Mormon Chapel], LDS Newsroom, 19 August 2008

====Links to Groups Not in Favor of the Mormon Church====

*[http://jesusnotjoseph.com JesusNotJoseph]
*[http://www.mrm.org Mormonism Research Ministry]
*[http://www.evangelicalbible.com/jw.htm#LDS The Mormon Church & the Nature of God]

[[Category:Christian Denominations]]
[[Category:LDS Church]]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints

2008-10-08T15:19:25Z

Marcdaniels: context

[[Image:Birmingham temple.jpg|right|Birmingham temple]]
The '''Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,'''<ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=ca07ae4af9c7e010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD Style Guide - The Name of the Church] LDS.org</ref> informally known as the '''Mormon Church''', was organized on 6 April 1830 in [[Fayette]], [[New York]], by [[Joseph Smith]]. As the Church grew, new converts gathered in [[Ohio]] and [[Missouri]]. While the Latter-day Saints in [[Kirtland]], Ohio, experienced persecution, those gathered in Missouri were repeatedly driven from town to town by angry mobs. Having been forced from Missouri in 1839, Church members gathered in Illinois and built a thriving city called [[Nauvoo]] in a swampy bend of the Mississippi River. However, within seven years they were again forced from their homes. Led by [[Brigham Young]], these pioneers fled 1,300 miles (2,092 kilometers) westward to the Salt Lake Valley, to escape persecution, and founded [[Salt Lake City]], [[Utah]], where the Latter-Day Saint Church continues to be headquartered today. The church has now expanded to more than 12.5 million members.<ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=86e6635a56d8f010VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=3e0511154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD LDS Newsroom - Early Church History]</ref><ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=d10511154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD Worldwide Church Statistics] LDS.org</ref>

Church members follow a law of health known as the [[Word of Wisdom]] that promotes healthy eating as well as avoiding tobacco, alcohol, coffee, tea, and illegal drugs.<ref>[http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/89 The Word of Wisdom] Scriptures.lds.org</ref>
The U.S religious landscape survey published in February 2008 shows that [[Mormon]]s have the largest families closely followed by Muslims. <ref> [http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/25/america/25usreligion.php U.S religious landscape survey]</ref>

==Beliefs==
Latter-day Saints (Mormons) believe in [[Christ]], and they strive to follow his example. They testify of Christ and their Church bears his name. From the organization of the LDS Church in 1830, the Church's doctrine focused on Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith, Jr. wrote in 1842 to ''Chicago Democrat'' editor John Wentworth a statement of Church beliefs. The first of these 13 doctrinal declarations, later called the Articles of [[Faith]], stated the following:<blockquote>“We believe in [[God]] the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the [[Holy Ghost]]."<ref>[http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=4ebe76e6ffe0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1 The Marvelous Foundation of Our Faith] from the October 2002 General Conference</ref></blockquote>

"The Articles of Faith are thirteen statements written by the Prophet Joseph Smith describing some of the basic teachings and ordinances of the Church". <ref>[http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1]</ref> <ref>[http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Curriculum/home%20and%20family.htm/gospel%20principles.htm?fn=document-frameset.htm$f=templates$3.0 ''Gospel Principles'', The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Utah. 1997</ref> 

The LDS website states: <blockquote>"We believe in the Jesus of the [[New Testament]], and we believe what the New Testament teaches about Him. We do believe things about Jesus that other Christians do not believe, but that is because we know, through revelation, things about Jesus that others do not know."<ref>[http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/answer/0,9777,1601-1-56-16,00.html Is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints a Christian church?] As answered on the LDS Church's website</ref></blockquote>

Members of the church believe that [[God the Father]] and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct glorified beings, that God, the Father of all spirits (even including Lucifer) and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith in a vision in the spring of 1820 in response to Joseph's prayer requesting to know which of the many local [[Christian]] denominations he should join himself with, and that They told him that he should join with none of them. The reason behind this direction was as follows, according to LDS beliefs: the organization or "church" put in place by Jesus Christ during His ministry both before and after His resurrection was meant to remain as long as there were faithful followers, although there was clear understanding that a "falling away" (see 2 Thessalonians 2:3) or apostasy would take place, destroying for a time this organization (though not destroying faith in Jesus Christ, which did persist). This church organization provided a structure whereby two key components were maintained: the Priesthood, and continuing and direct revelation from the ascended Jesus Christ to His chosen Apostles.

According to LDS beliefs, the Priesthood is the authority given by Jesus Christ to His [[Apostles]] and others, both to direct the Church, as well as to perform the associated and necessary ordinances, such as baptism by water immersion, and giving the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Without this authority, it would be impossible to perform them in an authorized manner (see [[Book of Acts|Acts]] 8:18-23). This authority, in actuality a covenant of service, only placed on men and not at all a legitimate source of self-aggrandizement, could only be passed from one authorized holder to another worthy man through the laying on of hands. Thus, while although initially the full quorum of 12 Apostles was maintained (see Acts 1:15-26), the Apostles were killed one by one and the Lord, in His mercy, ceased to give these murderers further opportunity of condemning themselves as more Apostles were not chosen. Thus, without the Priesthood and without the continuing revelation that the Lord provided to His Apostles to lead and guide the church, it fell way, as had been prophesied.

Therefore, LDS doctrine teaches of the necessity of a complete restoration rather than simply a reformation, and for this reason, Joseph Smith was called by God to be the first prophet, in the same sense as [[Moses]], [[Isaiah]], or [[Peter]], since the times of the New Testament. Mormons believe that since Joseph Smith, the leaders of the Church, from Brigham Young to [[Gordon B. Hinckley]] today, were and are prophets, with the complete Priesthood authority (restored through the laying on of hands by first [[John the Baptist]] and then by Apostles Peter, [[James]] and [[John]]). Mormons revere these men just as the Biblical prophets are revered and in particular, honor Joseph Smith for being the man through whom God and Jesus Christ chose to restore Their church to the earth.

===JesusChrist.lds.org===
[[Image:FaithinChrist.jpg|thumb|right|A screen shot of the new JesusChrist.lds.org Web site.]]
The Church has a multimedia website about the life and teachings of Jesus Christ at [http://jesuschrist.lds.org/?cid=wpats1 JesusChrist.lds.org].

Elder [[Russell Nelson|Russell M. Nelson]] speaks about the new website ''JesusChrist.lds.org''. [http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/media/mediaplayer.swf?media=http://broadcast.lds.org/newsroom/video/flv/2-29-08_Nelson.flv&type=FLV video]

===Scriptures===

The four standard works of the Church are:
*The King James Version of the [[Bible]] - both the Old and New Testaments
*[[The Book of Mormon|The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ]] - Translation of the spiritual record of two ancient civilizations in the New World, one from the time of the [[Tower of Babel]] to about 600 B.C., and the other from 600 B.C. to 421 A.D. (It should be noted that there is almost nobody outside the Mormon Church who accepts that these civilisations existed)
*[[Doctrine and Covenants]] - Modern-day revelation as received by the Prophet Joseph Smith and other modern-day prophets
*[[Pearl of Great Price]] - Selection of translations, revelations and narrations from the Prophet Joseph Smith

====Book of Mormon====

President [[Gordon B. Hinckley]] said the following about the [[Book of Mormon]] in an October, 2002 [[General Conference]] address entitled "The Marvelous Foundation of Our Faith": <blockquote>"This remarkable book stands as a testimonial to the living reality of the Son of God. The Bible declares that 'in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established' (Matt. 18:16). The Bible, the testament of the Old World, is one witness. The Book of Mormon, the testament of the New World, is another witness.</blockquote><blockquote>I cannot understand why the Christian world does not accept this book. I would think they would be looking for anything and everything that would establish without question the reality and the divinity of the Savior of the world."<ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=e74c4d4297602110VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD Mormons Reflect Christianity in Lifestyle] as stated in the April, 2007 newsroom article at lds.org</ref></blockquote>

===Restoration of the Priesthood===
Members of the [[Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]] believe that on May 15, 1829 A.D., the resurrected [[John the Baptist]] appeared to [[Joseph Smith|Joseph Smith, Jr.]] and [[Oliver Cowdery]] and conferred upon them the [[Aaronic priesthood]], which includes the authority to baptize.<ref>[http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/13 Doctrine and Covenants 13]</ref> Later, the resurrected Peter, James, and John appeared to them and conferred the [[Melchizedek priesthood]].
''''Italic text''''Italic text''''

==Special Witnesses of Christ==
These prophets and apostles have given their testimonies as special witnesses of Jesus Christ.

*President [[Gordon Hinckley|Gordon B. Hinckley (1910-2008)]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-gordon-b-hinckley-1910-2008-garden-tomb Special Witnesses of Christ], President Gordon B. Hinckley at the Garden Tomb, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref> <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-gordon-b-hinckley-1910-2008-sacred-grove Special Witnesses of Christ], President Gordon B. Hinckley at the Sacred Grove, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*President [[Thomas Monson|Thomas S. Monson]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-thomas-s-monson Special Witnesses of Christ], President Thomas S. Monson, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*President [[Henry Eyring|Henry B. Eyring]]
*President [[Dieter Uchtdorf|Dieter F. Uchtdorf]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-dieter-f-uchtdorf Special Witnesses of Christ], President Dieter F. Uchtdorf, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*President [[Boyd Packer|Boyd K. Packer]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/president-boyd-k-packer Special Witnesses of Christ], President Boyd K. Packer, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[L. Tom Perry]]
*Elder [[Russell Nelson|Russell M. Nelson]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/elder-russell-m-nelson Special Witnesses of Christ], Elder Russell M. Nelson, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[Dallin Oaks|Dallin H. Oaks]]
*Elder [[M. Russell Ballard]]
*Elder [[Joseph Wirthlin|Joseph B. Wirthlin]]
*Elder [[Richard Scott|Richard G. Scott]]
*Elder [[Robert Hales|Robert D. Hales]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/elder-robert-d-hales Special Witnesses of Christ], Elder Robert D. Hales, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[Jeffrey Holland|Jeffrey R. Holland]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/elder-jeffrey-r-holland Special Witnesses of Christ], Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[David Bednar|David A. Bednar]] <ref>[http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/special-witnesses/video/elder-elder-david-a-bednar Special Witnesses of Christ], Elder David A. Bednar, video at ''JesusChrist.lds.org''.</ref>
*Elder [[Quentin Cook|Quentin L. Cook]]
*Elder [[D. Todd Christofferson]]

==Wards==
[[Image:DCTemple.jpg|right|Washington DC Temple]]
Wards are geographically-defined congregations of the church. The Bishop is the spiritual leader of the ward and he serves with two counselors, all three chosen from among the body of the Ward. Bishops are usually called to serve for a period of five years and do so on a volunteer and unpaid basis, without formal ecclesiastical training, and while maintaining their secular professions.

The entire ward meets every week on Sunday to worship the Lord Jesus Christ and to receive counsel. The meetings are divided into three different hours:
*First hour - '''Sacrament meeting'''. Our main purpose in attending sacrament meeting is to renew our covenants through partaking of the sacrament and to worship our Heavenly Father through hymn singing and prayer. Sacrament meeting provides an opportunity for members to strengthen their faith, find inner peace and spiritual healing, receive inspiration, and be instructed in the gospel. A member of the bishopric begins the meeting welcoming all members and visitors. There is an opening hymn followed by an opening prayer (invocation). This is followed by conducting ward business where members are released and sustained from callings. Then the sacrament of bread and water is prepared, blessed by the priesthood, and passed to the congregation. The sacrament is a renewal of the covenants each member made at baptism to remember the Lord Jesus Christ and to keep his commandments. On the first Sunday of the month, the meeting conductor starts off the bearing of testimonies by offering his own personal testimony. A testimony is a personal witness that the gospel of Jesus Christ is true. As inspired by the Spirit, other members give their testimonies. On the other three Sundays, there are talks from members. The sacrament meeting concludes with a closing hymn and prayer.
*Second hour - '''Sunday School''', '''Primary''' and '''Nursery'''. Its purposes are to teach the gospel of Jesus Christ and strengthen individuals and families by encouraging them to study the scriptures, obey the commandments, receive the essential ordinances, and keep the associated covenants. All the adults and youth meet in Sunday School classes. Children younger than twelve and three or older attend Primary. Children who are at least 18 months old but who are not yet 3 years old on 1 January may attend nursery at the discretion of their parents.
:'''Adult Sunday School''' - The adults meet in several different classes. New members to the Church usually attend a Gospel Essentials class where they learn the basic teachings of the Church. Most of the other adults attend a Gospel Doctrine class where they are instructed in the Gospel of Jesus Christ from the scriptures. The main subjects rotate every four years: Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, and the last year is Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price and Church history. The bible used by Church members is the King James Version.
:'''Youth Sunday School''' - The youth meet in several different classes according to their ages. There are usually separate classes for twelve and thirteen year olds, fourteen and fifteen year olds and sixteen and seventeen year olds. When they turn eighteen, the member starts attending the adult classes.
:'''Primary''' - The purpose of Primary is to teach children the gospel of Jesus Christ and help them learn to live it.
:'''Nursery''' - The purpose of the nursery class is to provide a loving, safe, organized place where young children can increase their understanding of and love for Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, have positive experiences in a Church setting, and grow in feelings of self-worth.
*Third hour - '''Priesthood''', '''Relief Society''', '''Young Men''', '''Young Women''', '''Primary''' and '''Nursery'''. The men meet in Priesthood, the adult women meet in Relief Society,the male youth meet in Young Men, the female youth meet in Young Women and the children continue to meet in Primary or Nursery.
:'''Priesthood''' - The purpose of the priesthood meetings are to increase priesthood holders’ knowledge of the gospel; strengthen their dedication to becoming better husbands, fathers, sons, and neighbors; and help them become active participants in fulfilling the mission of the Church.
:'''Relief Society ''' - The purpose of Relief Society is to provide relief for the poor and needy and to bring people to Christ.
:'''Young Men''' - The purpose of the Young men group is to prepare the young men of the Aaronic Priesthood to receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, to receive the ordinances of the temple, and to serve a full-time mission.
:'''Young Women''' - The purpose of the Young Women organization is to help each young woman, ages 12 to 18, "come unto Christ".

==General Conference==
The church holds a semi-annual General Conference (in April and October, five two-hour sessions over two days) during which members listen to spoken messages from the Prophet and President of the church, his two counselors, members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and other Church leaders. These messages are received by members of the church as modern-day revelation, just as the words of Peter were received by the followers of Jesus Christ in his day. Many members travel to Salt Lake City for the two-day conference, but the proceedings are broadcast via satellite throughout the world (as well as streamed on the internet) so that the entire church can participate.

The semi-annual conference was held in the Salt Lake Tabernacle for 132 years, but in 2000, the church completed construction of the Conference Center and has held the conference there since April 2000. The Conference Center's primary feature is an auditorium that seats 21,000.

==Controversy==

====Position of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints====
Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints consider themselves Christians. They worship Jesus Christ as their Creator (see John 1:3), their Savior and Redeemer, and ultimately their eternal Judge. They believe that the events described in the New Testament in reality occurred, including Jesus Christ's virgin birth, his sinless life and miraculous ministry, and his suffering, death, and literal resurrection, through which forgiveness of sin, salvation (understood in LDS doctrine to indicate resurrection and immortality, a free gift to all; see 1 Corinthians 15:22), and ultimately exaltation (returning to and eternally dwelling in the presence of God and Jesus Christ and becoming "joint-heirs with Christ"; see Romans 8:17), are made possible.

The eleventh of the above-mentioned thirteen articles of faith contains the following statement:
<blockquote>“We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may." (see Articles of Faith 1:11)</blockquote>

====African Americans and the Priesthood====
Mormons used to believe that black skin was the result of a divine curse.
Therefore, African Americans were banned from the priesthood until, in June 1978, President Spencer W. Kimball is said to have received a revelation extending priesthood ordination to all worthy males of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Official Declaration 2).
<ref name="Black">Emmanuel Abu Kissi, [http://byustudies.byu.edu/Reviews/Pages/reviewdetail.aspx?reviewID=117 Book review of Black and Mormon] BYU Studies Review, October 2006.</ref><ref> [http://www.pbs.org/mormons/themes/prohibition.html The Prohibition Against Blacks in the Priesthood], Public Broadcasting Service.</ref> <ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=36f2ce9566a43110VgnVCM100000176f620a____ LDS.org - Topic Definition - Priesthood Ordination before 1978]</ref>

The Book of Mormon attests that God invites “all to come unto him and partake of his goodness; and he denieth none that come unto him, black and white, bond and free, male and female; . . . and all are alike unto God” (2 Nephi 26:33). In our present day the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles have stated that all human beings are created in the image of God and that each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of Deity. <ref>“The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” 23 Sept. 1995, published in Ensign, Nov. 1995</ref>

<blockquote>In the twentieth century, various Church leaders continued to offer possible reasons why a race of people was prohibited from holding the priesthood. One explanation, carried over from the previous century, stated that blacks were descendants of Cain, the first murderer, and therefore were denied the priesthood because of lineage. Another theory held that blacks were less valiant in the premortal existence and therefore had certain spiritual restrictions placed upon them during mortality. Priesthood denial was perceived to be one of these spiritual restrictions. But by mid-century, President David O. McKay stated, "There is not now, and there never has been, a doctrine in this Church that the negroes are under a divine curse. . . .It is a practice, not a doctrine, and the practice will some day be changed".<ref name="Black" /></blockquote>

===Views on Same-Gender Attraction===
In October 2007, Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, wrote an article in the Ensign magazine entitled "Helping Those Who Struggle with Same-Gender Attraction". <ref>[http://www.lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.b12f9d18fae655bb69095bd3e44916a0/?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=e5cbba12dc825110VgnVCM100000176f620a____ Helping Those Who Struggle with Same-Gender Attraction]</ref> In 2007, the Church published a pamphlet "God Loveth His Children", for those suffering from same-gender attraction. <ref>http://www.lds.org/topics/pdf/GodLovethHisChildren_04824_000.pdf God Loveth His Children</ref>

On June 7, 2006, ABC’s Nightline ran a story on members and former members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who struggle with same-gender attraction. The Church published a response to the inaccuracies in the Nightline story. <ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=d4ec39628b88f010VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=f5f411154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD Church Responds to Nightline Story on Mormons and Homosexuality]</ref>

The Church has a section on same-gender attraction on the Newsroom website. <ref>[http://www.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=27f71f1dd189f010VgnVCM100000176f620aRCRD&vgnextchannel=726511154963d010VgnVCM1000004e94610aRCRD&vgnextfmt=tab1 Same-Gender Attraction]</ref>

===Polygamy===
Early ill will towards Mormons was sparked in part by its early practice of [[polygamy]], which was sanctioned from 1840 until 1890. Even though it was officially discontinued in 1890, Mormonism and polygamy continue to be associated in the minds of the uninformed.

A 1998 statement by current LDS President Gordon B. Hinckley states:
:This Church has nothing whatever to do with those practicing polygamy. They are not members of this Church. . . . If any of our members are found to be practicing plural marriage, they are excommunicated, the most serious penalty the Church can impose. Not only are those so involved in direct violation of the civil law, they are in violation of the law of this Church.<ref>[http://www.mormon.org/question/faq/category/answer/0,9777,1601-1-114-1,00.html What is the Church’s position on polygamy?] LDS website</ref>

However, in addition to "the" Church (the 12.5-million-member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), there continue to be small splinter groups, which also consider themselves to be Mormons and do practice polygamy. The most notable is the "Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (often called "Fundamentalist Mormons.") This group numbers about ten thousand. It broke from the Mormon church in 1890 over the issue of polygamy. It made headlines in 2006 and 2007, when leader Warren Jeffs was arrested by the FBI and indicted by a grand jury on charges of arranging illegal "marriages" between male followers and underage girls.

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==See Also==
*[[List of LDS temples]]

==External Links==

*[http://www.lds.org Official Church Website]
*[http://www.mormon.org Official Church Website for Investigators]
*[http://scriptures.lds.org Official Online Version of the LDS Scriptures]
*[http://www.familysearch.org/ Official Church Genealogy Website, "the largest collection of free family history, family tree and genealogy records in the world."]
*[http://www.ldschurchtemples.com "News, schedules, photographs, and interesting facts of the temples of the LDS Church"]
*[http://www.fairlds.org Mormon Apologetics]
*[http://www.maxwellinstitute.com BYU Theologians]
*[http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/ About Mormons]
*[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints Wikipedia article] on the LDS Church
*[http://www.intellectualconservative.com/article3282.html Are Mormons Conservative?]
*[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317272,00.html 21 Questions Answered About Mormon Faith]
*[http://www.moroni10.com/protestants.html Why Protestants Agree With Mormons (They Just Don’t Realize It)], Kelly Bingham, December 7, 2007
*[http://www.newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/what-you-will-find-when-you-step-inside-a-mormon-chapel What You Will Find When You Step Inside a Mormon Chapel], LDS Newsroom, 19 August 2008

====Links to Groups Not in Favor of the Mormon Church====

*[http://jesusnotjoseph.com JesusNotJoseph]
*[http://www.mrm.org Mormonism Research Ministry]
*[http://www.evangelicalbible.com/jw.htm#LDS The Mormon Church & the Nature of God]

[[Category:Christian Denominations]]
[[Category:LDS Church]]

John Kerry

2008-10-08T15:16:35Z

Marcdaniels: snopes.com is liberal-leaning and not a reliable source

[[Image:John-kerry.jpg‎|right|thumb]]
'''John Forbes Kerry''' (b. December 11, 1943) has been the junior United States Senator from [[Massachusetts]] since 1984; he is considered one of the more [[liberal]] senators<ref>http://nationaljournal.c om/voteratings/sen/lib.htm</ref><ref>http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/cons.htm</ref>. In 2004, he ran an unsuccessful bid for the [[United States of America|United States]] [[President of the United States of America|presidency]] as the [[Democratic Party]]'s nominee, losing to [[Republican Party|Republican]] incumbent president [[George W. Bush]]. Kerry is currently the Chairman of the United States Senate Committee on Small Business and Entrepreneurship.

==Controversy over 2004 Election Financing==

In 2007 the [[Federal Election Commission]] finally issued a draft report <ref>[http://www.fec.gov/agenda/2007/mtgdoc07-37.pdf Agenda Document No. 07-37], Federal Election Commission, Washignton, D.C., May 21, 2007.</ref> stating Kerry spent spent $1.4 million more than federal rules allowed during his 2004 Presidential bid. In order to receive the public funds, Kerry, a Democratic senator from Massachusetts, and his running mate, former North Carolina Sen. [[John Edwards]], agreed to spend $74.6 million or less on their general election campaign against President Bush. Kerry’s campaign may have to repay the overspending to the U.S. Treasury, since his unsuccessful general election campaign was funded by tax dollars. The draft audit also found the campaign’s media vendor improperly invested and earned interest on public funds. And auditors allege the campaign misreported its media buys and its outstanding debt. <ref>[http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0507/4244.html FEC draft: Kerry broke spending limits], Kenneth P. Vogel, May 30, 2007.</ref>

==Military Career ==

Kerry enlisted in the U.S. Naval Reserve in February, 1966, and began active service that August as Ensign aboard the USS Gridley, a Guided Missile Frigate deployed in the Gulf of Tonkin. During his tour of duty, Kerry requested his second tour be in Vietnam, listing his preferred position as commanding a Fast Patrol Craft (PCF) or "Swift Boat." His request was granted, and on November 17, 1968 he reported to Cam Ranh Bay for a month of training. During his service, he received the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, and a total of three Purple Hearts during combat operations inside Vietnam, and after his third injury was permitted to request reassignment as per Navy instruction 1300.39, Leaving Vietnam on April 2, 1969. Upon returning stateside, he served as personal aide to Rear Admiral Walter Schlech until March 1970 when his active duty obligation had ended. Kerry continued serving in the Naval Reserves until February 1972.

==Opposition to the Vietnam War==

Kerry belonged to Vietnam Veterans Against the War ([[VVAW]]), where he supported the anti-war movement.
[[Image:437px-The New Soldier.jpg|right|thumb|Kerry's book, ''The New Soldier'' with [[VVAW]] activists flying the American flag upside down.]]
Controversially referring to US servicemen in Vietnam as having been sent "''to die for the biggest mistake in history''," Kerry alleged that the military had "''created a monster''" in the form of violence-prone American soldiers, and recounted that soldiers had personally recollected stories of having "''personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads''," of Vietnamese citizens and rampaging across Vietnam "''[razing] villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan''". <ref>[http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html John Kerry's Testimony before the Senate Foerein Relations Committee, April 22, 1971], Editorial Notes by Dr. Ernest Bolt, University of Richmond. </ref> That these acts were "''not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command''." <ref>Ibid.</ref>

On NBC's ''Meet The Press'' in 1971, Kerry was asked whether he had personally committed atrocities in Vietnam. He responded:

:"''There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 caliber machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.''"<ref>[http://hnn.us/articles/3552.html Vietnam 30 Years later: What John Kerry Said on Meet the Press], George Mason University, History News Network</ref>

During his 2004 campaign for President, several groups were formed, most notably the [[Swift Boat Veterans for Truth]]<ref>[http://www.swiftvets.com/index.php Swift Vets and POWs for Truth]</ref>, to counter the charges of "[[war crimes]]" Kerry repeatedly made against Vietnam veterans (see below) and to call Kerry's military record into question, accusing him of inflicting his own wounds,<ref>[http://www.learnedhand.com/kerryunfitepilogue.htm John Kerry - Unfit For Command]</ref> going to unusual lengths to obtain his Purple Hearts,<ref>[http://www.archive-news.net/Articles/FD040830.html ''Forging a Paper Hero: The Mystery of Kerry’s Medals] </ref> and attacking unarmed civilians. Swift Boat Veterans for Truth had been publicly criticized, firstly because no member of the group actually served on the boats that Kerry commanded or witnessed the events described,{{fact}} and secondly for internal consistency and contradiction.

An internal memorandum for Attorney General [[John Mitchell]] from a Nixon staffer released by the National Archives in July 2007 revealed the Nixon White House had considered recruiting John Kerry. The memorandum states in part,
{{Cquote|He was asked the direct question of how he voted in 1968. He said "if he had voted (which he did not), he would have voted for Nixon." <ref>[http://www.nixonlibrary.gov/virtuallibrary/documents/donated/042671_chotiner.pdf Memo from Chotiner to Mitchell], April 26, 1971.</ref> }}

==Vietnam Record==

Marine Corps Maj. Michael E. McBride wrote in Townhall.com, Mr. Kerry "has always had the power to clear up any of the Swiftboater challenges; all he had to do is allow the Navy to distribute unaltered copies of his service record, medical records, and DD214. It is essential that these records come from DOD, so that they cannot be tampered with by Kerry or his supporters. The DOD copies are the true copies of record and the only viable evidence for these matters." Maj. McBride, citing Mr. Kerry's long reluctance to do, so goes on to write, "it is unlikely that any credible evidence exists to refute the base charges of the Swiftboaters."

He concludes, "If any of my ex-squadron mates dumped on me like the Swift boat vets are dumping on Kerry, my records would have been available the next day ... ." <ref>http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080104/COMMENTARY/847826179&template=nextpage</ref>

==Iraq War==

Kerry voted to give President George W. Bush the authority to go to war with Iraq in 2002, although in his 2004 Presidential bid he campaigned as being opposed to the war, and now says, regarding his vote to give the President that authority, "There's nothing - nothing - in my life in public service I regret more, nothing even close. We should all be willing to say: I was wrong, I should not have voted for the Iraq War Resolution." <ref>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-kerry/mistakes-and-responsibili_b_31482.html</ref> Kerry's initial vote on the matter and subsequent revision on the topic caused many to label him a "flip-flopper" during his 2004 presidential bid.

==Controversy over comments on Iraq and education==
On October 30, 2006, eight days before the 2006 elections, Kerry was a headline speaker at a campaign rally being held for unsuccessful Democratic [[California]] gubernatorial candidate [[Phil Angelides]] at Pasadena City College in Pasadena, California. Speaking to an audience composed mainly of college students, Kerry said, "You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq." After being criticized from President Bush and other leaders, Kerry stated "Let me make it crystal clear, as crystal clear as I know how. I apologize to no one for my criticism of the president and of his broken policy." After two days, Kerry wrote an apology on his [[blog]], stating that he was sorry if anyone misinterprete his comments.

==Books by John Kerry==

* John Kerry, [http://www.freekerrybook.org/documents/THENEWSOLDIERPHOTOS_000.PDF ''The New Soldier''], edited by David Thorne, Macmillan Pub Co (October 1971). ISBN-10: 002073610X

==See Also==
[[Previous Breaking News/John Kerry|Articles about '''John Kerry''' from previous "Breaking News"]]

==References==
<references/>
{{DEFAULTSORT:Kerry, John}}
[[Category:United States Senators]]
[[Category:Political People]]
[[Category:Democratic Party]]
[[Category: 110th United States Congress]]

David Cameron

2008-10-08T14:40:52Z

Marcdaniels: questionable - many Tories openly support Obama. Indeed, in American terms, Cameron is to the left of Obama

[[Image:674uyyhju.jpg|right|thumb]]
'''David Cameron''', born 9 October 1966, is the current leader of the British [[Conservative Party]]. According to the opinion polls, he is likely to be the next British [[Prime Minister]] after the next general election, which will probably be held in either 2009 or 2010.

==Personal==

Cameron spent his early years near Wantage in [[Oxfordshire]], [[England]], though his family's roots lie in [[Inverness]], [[Scotland]], and "Cameron" is well known in Britain as a Scottish name.

Cameron was educated at [[Eton College]], which is generally regarded as Britain's most prestigious private school, and at [[Brasenose College]], [[Oxford University|Oxford]].

Cameron is self-descibed as "upper middle class". His leadership and indeed his own party are supported by businesses, as opposed to the leftist Labour Party, led by the Scotsman [[Gordon Brown]]; who are backed overwhelmingly by the [[trade union]]s. Many intervening leaders have been middle-class ([[Edward Heath]], [[Margaret Thatcher]]) or even working-class ([[John Major]]) - although all also attended [[private school|private]] educational institutions, and most also [[Oxbridge]] colleges.

His refusal to discuss his past, citing the right to a private life before politics<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4340328.stm</ref> has led to criticism from a small portion media sources and opposition MPs.

==Political career==

Cameron's pre-parliamentary career included spells as a staffer for controversial Conservative politician [[Norman Lamont]] and as a PR executive.

Cameron was elected to Parliament as MP for Witney in Oxfordshire at the 2001 general election.

Cameron was elected leader of the [[Conservative Party]] in December 2005, succeeding [[Michael Howard]].

In late June 2007, at the end of then-Prime Minister [[Tony Blair]]'s final Prime Minister's Questions session in the [[House of Commons]], David Cameron led his opposition party in giving the outgoing leader a standing ovation.<ref>[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1555758/Tony-Blair-steps-down-to-a-standing-ovation.html Tony Blair steps down to standing ovation] - Daily Telegraph, June 27, 2007</ref>

==Policies==

Cameron has attempted to move the Conservative party towards what is perceived by some to be the centre ground of British politics. While the party under his leadership has expressed support for some traditional elements of Conservative policy, such as the importance of the [[family]], Cameron has also expressed a passionate concern about [[global warming]]. He has suggested a move towards [[privitisation]] within the strongly-socialist [[National Health Service]], in an attempt to combat the economic failures resulting from the flawed socialist ideas upon which the organisation is based. Designed and originated by the leftist [[Labour Party]], the organisation is notorious for its burocracy and the failure of its left-wing values in an economic sense. He garnered criticism from some sections of the press when when suggesting society try to breach the social divide caused by the [[Liberal media]]'s portrayal of all youths as criminals.

Some traditional Conservatives, particularly those on the [[Thatcherism|Thatcherite]] wing of the party, have criticized Cameron for moving the party too far to the left. They point to surveys showing that many voters feel they no longer know what the Conservative Party stands for.<ref>http://www.yougov.com/archives/pdf/TEL060101018_1.pdf</ref> However, he has stated that he is "certainly a big [[Margaret Thatcher|Thatcher]] fan, but I don't know whether that makes me a Thatcherite."<ref name="new identity">[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4446864.stm "Cameron: Tories need new identity"], ''BBC News Online'', [[17 November]] [[2005]], accessed [[6 November]] [[2006]]</ref> He has also described himself as a "liberal Conservative" (though "liberal" in British English does not have the same meaning as in the United States, and instead has the meaning of "centrist" or "moderate").<ref name="Rawnsley">Andrew Rawnsley, [http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus/story/0,,1669957,00.html "'I'm not a deeply ideological person. I'm a practical one'"], ''Guardian Unlimited'', [[18 December]] [[2005]], accessed [[6 November]] [[2006]]</ref> Some have gone so far as to claim that true conservatism is today represented in Britain not by the Conservative Party but by the [[UK Independence Party]]. On the other hand, the approval ratings of Cameron and his party continue to compare very favourably with those of the Labour Party and its leadership, which is undoubtedly unpopular.

Cameron has said: "My aim is to promote social justice, making sure that everyone has access to good schools, good healthcare and decent housing, take a lead in ending global poverty and do all we can to meet the great environmental threats of our age."<ref>http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=david.cameron.about.page</ref> Some conservative politicians and commentators, notably [[Norman Tebbit]], have criticised him for prioritising issues of the environment and social justice over more traditionally Conservative policy areas, such as tax, immigration and foreign relations. Tebbit said: "Is he the party's [[Chairman Mao]] or [[Pol Pot]], intent on purging even the memory and name of [[Margaret Thatcher|Thatcherism]] before building a new modern compassionate green globally aware party somewhere on the left side of the middle?"<ref name="g1">[http://politics.guardian.co.uk/conservatives/story/0,,1698576,00.html Tories must retake centre ground says Cameron], ''Guardian Unlimited'', 31 January 2006</ref> However, Cameron has responded extensively to such criticisms by pointing out that the economic and social problems faced by modern-day Britain are radically different from those faced in the past; he has argued that the Conservative Party needs to re-take the [[centrist|centre ground]] of politics from the [[Labour Party]].<ref name="bbc1">[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4661024.stm Cameron denies 'betraying' Tories], BBC News, 30 January 2006</ref> He argued: "The change is not a betrayal. It is a recognition that the challenges faced by Britain are not the challenges of the 1970s. Social justice and economic efficiency are the common ground of British politics. We have to find the means of succeeding where the government has failed."<ref name="g2"/>

On August 16, 2008, Cameron followed President [[George Bush]] in criticising [[Russia]]'s invasion of [[Georgia]] during a visit to the war-torn region.<ref>[http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jl825geip9c65_-FTHTC_3wzMy0Q Cameron in Georgia slams 'invading' Russia]</ref>
==References==

<References/>

==See also==

* [[British politics]]
* [[Conservative Party]]

{{DEFAULTSORT: Cameron, David}}

[[category:British Politics]]