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		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Essay:Best_New_Conservative_Words&amp;diff=800128</id>
		<title>Essay:Best New Conservative Words</title>
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		<updated>2010-08-02T12:27:01Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Tax-spend.jpg|thumb|480px|The &amp;quot;tax-and-spend&amp;quot; slogan stuck to Harry Hopkins like a well-fitted suit.]]Each year the English language develops about a thousand new words.  The [[King James Version]] of the [[Bible]] contains only about 8,000 different words,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8013859.stm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and many good words have developed since then.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Conservative]] terms are being generated at a faster rate, and with much higher quality, than [[liberal]] terms are.  This implies an inevitable conservative triumph over liberalism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Powerful, insightful new conservative terms have grown at a [[geometric progression|geometric rate]], roughly doubling every century.  For every insightful new conservative term originating in the 1600s, there are two new terms originating in the 1700s, four new terms in the 1800s, and eight new terms in the 1900s, for a pattern of &amp;quot;1-2-4-8&amp;quot;.  Implications of a geometric increase for new conservative terms include a more conservative future and a correlation between conservatism and truth.  The year 1612 is our starting point: the King James Version of the Bible had just been published in 1611, and [[William Shakespeare]] had written virtually all of his plays.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Century&lt;br /&gt;
!# New Conservative Terms&lt;br /&gt;
!Most Prolific Periods&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1600s&lt;br /&gt;
|20&lt;br /&gt;
|period following publication of [[KJV]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1700s&lt;br /&gt;
|40&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Great Awakening|Great Awaken.]], [[American Revolution|Am. Revol.]], [[Constitutional Convention|Const. Conv.]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1800s&lt;br /&gt;
|81&lt;br /&gt;
|1820s - political transition and conflict&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|155&lt;br /&gt;
|1940s - [[World War II|WWII]] and postwar transition&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2000s&lt;br /&gt;
|14 (preliminary)&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Conservative words and terms==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!New Term&lt;br /&gt;
!Origin date&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[accountability]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1794&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[action-at-a-distance]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1693&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Newton]]'s acceptance of this concept -- which became fundamental to [[electrostatics]] and [[quantum mechanics]] and has a basis in Christianity&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''See, e.g.'', [[Jesus]]'s cure of the centurion's slave.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; -- was central to the development of his theory of gravity.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/newton-philosophy/#ActDis&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Einstein criticized this concept as &amp;quot;spooky&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|activism&lt;br /&gt;
|1915&lt;br /&gt;
|this differentiates conservatives from inactive people; this term might have originated in connection with [[Prohibition]] and efforts to pass the [[Eighteenth Amendment]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|aerobics&lt;br /&gt;
|1967&lt;br /&gt;
|invented by the Christian Dr. Kenneth H. Cooper&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.christianadvice.net/famous_christians.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; to describe his self-help, revolutionary program to improve health, he entitled his ground-breaking book in 1968 ''Aerobics''.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|alarmism&lt;br /&gt;
|1867&lt;br /&gt;
|needless warnings, as in the politically motivated claims of [[global warming]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|alcoholism&lt;br /&gt;
|1860&lt;br /&gt;
|excessive or addictive drinking of alcohol&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|algorithm&lt;br /&gt;
|1894&lt;br /&gt;
|an efficient and consistent step-by-step methodology for achieving a goal, the opposite of [[liberal style]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|altruism&lt;br /&gt;
|1853&lt;br /&gt;
|selfless assistance of others; this also occurs in the animal kingdom, and is a [[counterexample to evolution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ambulance chaser&lt;br /&gt;
|1896&lt;br /&gt;
|a lawyer who searches for victims to persuade them to sue for his profit&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[American dream]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1911&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;1911 is the date given by the &amp;quot;OED&amp;quot;, which refers to the Oxford English Dictionary. The Merriam-Webster dictionary gives a date of 1931.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the idea that one’s work should be rewarding.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|American Way&lt;br /&gt;
|1930s&lt;br /&gt;
|later conservative entrepreneurs used this to coin a new name for what became a highly successful and uniquely American business model: &amp;quot;Amway&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[anti-Christian]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|thirty-three million sites turn up in a Google search, yet the Merriam-Webster dictionary doesn't recognize this important term&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|anticompetitive&lt;br /&gt;
|1952&lt;br /&gt;
|interfering with open competition and the enormous benefits that flow from it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|antilife&lt;br /&gt;
|1929&lt;br /&gt;
|critical term describing a tendency to oppose life and lifesaving care&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|apple pie&lt;br /&gt;
|1780&lt;br /&gt;
|honesty, simplicity, wholesomeness. Relating to, or characterized by traditionally American values. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apple%20pie Merriam-webster- Apple pie]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|assimilate&lt;br /&gt;
|1880s&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;estimate only; this originated sometime in the late 1880s.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the desired absorption of immigrant groups into the culture and mores of the resident population&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|attention span&lt;br /&gt;
|1934&lt;br /&gt;
|correlated with intelligence, the attention span is how long someone can concentrate on something.  It is rapidly shortening; the Lincoln-Douglas debates 150 years ago lasted for hours, but none do today.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.help4teachers.com/ras.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The average length of sentences in speech is another indication of attention span, and it has been shortening significantly.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|baby boom&lt;br /&gt;
|1941&lt;br /&gt;
|an increase in birthrate, which is a good thing; note that the baby boom actually started before World War II, contrary to what textbooks teach. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[bailout]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1951&lt;br /&gt;
|wasting taxpayer money to rescue, temporarily, a failing company&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bedrock&lt;br /&gt;
|1840-1850&lt;br /&gt;
|an American term for unbroken solid rock underneath fragments or soil, which adopted the figurative meaning of strong values:  &amp;quot;bedrock principles&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bedrock&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|beltway mentality&lt;br /&gt;
|1986&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by [[Paul Weyrich]] though possibly first used by then-Governor [[John Sununu]] (&amp;quot;captives of yourselves&amp;quot;), it refers to a governing style that sees only as far as the highway that surrounds its capital, especially the one around D.C.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|biased&lt;br /&gt;
|1649&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Big Brother&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|government constantly watching its citizens; [[George Orwell]] first coined this term in his classic, ''[[1984]]''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Blame America Crowd&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Or &amp;quot;Blame-America-First Crowd&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|1984&lt;br /&gt;
|Michael Barone quoted [[Jeane Kirkpatrick]] as saying that the &amp;quot;San Francisco Democrats&amp;quot; (site of the Democratic National Convention in 1984) &amp;quot;always blame America first.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.creators.com/opinion/michael-barone/the-blame-america-first-crowd.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|blank check&lt;br /&gt;
|1884&lt;br /&gt;
|irresponsibly giving someone unlimited spending authority or power, as in &amp;quot;a Con Con would be a blank check to destroy the nation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Blue Dog Democrat]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1995&lt;br /&gt;
|a person who adheres to conservative principles within the Democratic party, once called a Boll Weevil; as of 2009 there are 45-50 Blue Dog Democrats in the [[House of Representatives]], which is enough to form a majority with [[Republicans]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|boondoggle&lt;br /&gt;
|1935&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;popularized during the [[New Deal]] as a contemptuous word for make-work projects for the unemployed.&amp;quot; &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=boondoggle&amp;amp;searchmode=none&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The term gained popularity in [[Canada]] following a corruption scandal tied to the [[Liberal]] government in 2000.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bootstrap&lt;br /&gt;
|1913&lt;br /&gt;
|unaided effort, personal merit, hard work&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bork&lt;br /&gt;
|1988&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by William Safire to refer to how Democrats savage a conservative nominee, such as their defeat of Supreme Court nominee [[Robert H. Bork]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|born-again&lt;br /&gt;
|1961&lt;br /&gt;
|it takes an open mind and heart&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|brainstorm&lt;br /&gt;
|1894&lt;br /&gt;
|a burst of productive thought&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|brainwashing&lt;br /&gt;
|1950&lt;br /&gt;
|derived from the Chinese term &amp;quot;xǐnǎo&amp;quot; soon after the [[communist]] takeover of China, &amp;quot;brainwashing&amp;quot; means forced abandonment of [[faith]] in favor of regimented [[atheism]]. In a more general sense, it refers to the manipulation and control of the human mind through torture and propaganda techniques.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|brinkmanship&lt;br /&gt;
|1956&lt;br /&gt;
|the art of displaying a willingness to use military force in order to obtain a just resolution to a conflict between nations&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[bureaucracy]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1818&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|busywork&lt;br /&gt;
|1910&lt;br /&gt;
|meaningless activity under the pretense of accomplishing something&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|can-do&lt;br /&gt;
|1903 &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; according to the Oxford English Dictionary. [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/can-do Miram-webster] gives the date of 1945 &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|Phrase coined in a short story by [[Rudyard Kipling]] that has come to refer to an attitude that espouses individual ability and responsibility and not reliance on [[entitlements]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[capitalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1850-1855&lt;br /&gt;
|creating jobs and wealth based on a private invention, ownership and investments rather than state-controlled resources&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[carpetbagger]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1868&lt;br /&gt;
|a politician who moves to a new area to be elected to a government position, as in [[Hillary Clinton]] moving to [[New York]] to become a U.S. Senator&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|catharsis&lt;br /&gt;
|1775&lt;br /&gt;
|facilitating forgiveness and spiritual renewal by expression, as in writing or teaching or confession&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|caucus&lt;br /&gt;
|1763&lt;br /&gt;
|citizens or representatives gathering to meet and reach political decisions as a group while harnessing aspects of the [[best of the public]]; a favorite term of President John Adams, who wrote the Massachusetts Constitution and played a role in developing the [[Declaration of Independence]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|chaperone&lt;br /&gt;
|1720&lt;br /&gt;
|care and well-being of youths overseen by adults&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|citizen's arrest&lt;br /&gt;
|1941&lt;br /&gt;
|private enforcement of the law without the need of a taxpayer-funded police officer&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|claptrap&lt;br /&gt;
|1799&lt;br /&gt;
|pretentious, verbose, and often liberal nonsense; example usage: &amp;quot;the professor wasted the rest of the class on his liberal claptrap&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|closed shop&lt;br /&gt;
|1904&lt;br /&gt;
|a business that requires membership in a union as a condition of working there; 22 conservative states prohibit this&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Coase theorem|Coasean]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|an efficient result or bargain based on market forces without the distortions caused by [[transaction costs]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Columbian&lt;br /&gt;
|1757&lt;br /&gt;
|relating to Christopher Columbus ''or the United States''	&lt;br /&gt;
|-	&lt;br /&gt;
|Cold War&lt;br /&gt;
|1947&lt;br /&gt;
|recognition that communist nations were at war with American freedom even in the absence of actual military conflict&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[comparative advantage]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1815&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www-personal.umich.edu/~alandear/glossary/orig.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|developed by the classical economist [[David Ricardo]], this reflects the insight that each country should &amp;quot;do what it does best&amp;quot; in deciding which goods to produce&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|competitive&lt;br /&gt;
|1829&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|conciseness&lt;br /&gt;
|1650-60s&lt;br /&gt;
|quality of being concise&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|conciseness&lt;br /&gt;
|1650-60s&lt;br /&gt;
|quality of being concise&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Con Con&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by [[Phyllis Schlafly]] to highlight the deception and risks inherent in proposed national constitutional conventions&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|conservation of charge&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|overall charge does not change in an isolated system; it is neither created nor destroyed; the concept was first suggested by [[Benjamin Franklin]] but the date of origin for this term is surprisingly recent&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[conservative]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1831&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[conservative field]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1870s?&lt;br /&gt;
|a type of physical force over a region such that items moving throughout the region can store energy ''without loss'', as in the planetary system and electrical products&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The mathematical definition of a conservative field -- which arises in [[multivariable calculus]] -- is that a scalar potential exists for the function and, alternatively, it is [[irrotational]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|constant&lt;br /&gt;
|1832&lt;br /&gt;
|(noun) something unchanging in value&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|constitutionality&lt;br /&gt;
|1787&lt;br /&gt;
|its date of origin is the year of the [[Constitutional Convention]] that proposed the [[U.S. Constitution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|copacetic&lt;br /&gt;
|1890s&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster officially lists its date of origin as 1919 and its source as unknown, but that is well after when Robinson says he developed it.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|Bill “Bojangles” Robinson, tap dancer extraordinaire, claimed the invention of this word; it was first popularized by African Americans&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|copyright&lt;br /&gt;
|1735&lt;br /&gt;
|extending private property to protect expressive works&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|correlate&lt;br /&gt;
|1742&lt;br /&gt;
|(verb) to show that one thing relates to another, such as [[atheism]] or [[homosexuality]] and selfishness or lack of charity; [[liberal]]s falsely rely on anecdotes to deny the general relationship&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[countability (Mathematics)|countability]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1874&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Georg Cantor]], loathed by the leading contemporary [[mathematicians]], developed this in proving that the real numbers are ''uncountable''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|counterexample&lt;br /&gt;
|1957&lt;br /&gt;
|an example that is contrary to the proposition. A common point in logical, reasoned debate.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crackpot&lt;br /&gt;
|1884&lt;br /&gt;
|crazy talk, lunacy, a person on the fringe of reality&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[creation science]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&lt;br /&gt;
|a term coined by the anti-[[evolution|evolutionist]] [[Henry Morris]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/28/AR2006022801716.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cross-examination&lt;br /&gt;
|1824&lt;br /&gt;
|the most effective tool against [[liberal]] [[deceit]], better than even the requirement of an oath&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crystal clear&lt;br /&gt;
|1815&lt;br /&gt;
|liberals are the opposite&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[culture war]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1991&lt;br /&gt;
|widespread use after the book ''Culture Wars: The Struggle to Define America'' by James Davison Hunter&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cyberbullying&lt;br /&gt;
|2000s&lt;br /&gt;
|a type of obnoxious and hurtful liberal behavior on the internet&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deadweight loss]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1930s&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Confirmation of the first use is desired.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the loss in overall wealth and efficiency imposed by monopolies and taxation, due to the loss in extra value that someone would have received beyond what he would have paid for a good at a free market price&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|death tax&lt;br /&gt;
|1989&lt;br /&gt;
|interestingly, the term was coined by Canadians opposed to the high estate tax on their assets held in the United States; Frank Luntz is credited with later popularizing this term in the United States.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''See'' Dr. Frank Luntz, ''Words That Work: It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear''&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|decentralization&lt;br /&gt;
|1846&lt;br /&gt;
|the dispersion of power, as in a shift from national to local control&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|decrypt&lt;br /&gt;
|1935&lt;br /&gt;
|military code-breaking, which played an instrumental role in World War II in deciphering enemy codes that many felt were unbreakable; illustrates the &amp;quot;can do&amp;quot; approach of conservatism in a patriotic way&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[defeatism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1918&lt;br /&gt;
|a negative attitude that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|deflation&lt;br /&gt;
|1891&lt;br /&gt;
|an increase in the value of savings&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|defund&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|refers especially to termination of government funding of a wasteful or hurtful program&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|deliberative assembly&lt;br /&gt;
|1774&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''Introduction to Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised'' (19th Ed. 2000), xxv.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|used by Edmund Burke in describing the British parliament during a speech to voters in Bristol; he meant a body of persons meeting to discuss and decide common action under parliamentary law&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|demagogue&lt;br /&gt;
|1648&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deregulation]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1963&lt;br /&gt;
|Reagan won in 1980 by campaigning on this.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|design by committee&lt;br /&gt;
|before 1958&lt;br /&gt;
|pejorative term directed against collective production by a group &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|despotism&lt;br /&gt;
|1727&lt;br /&gt;
|a ruler with unlimited powers&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deterrence]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1861&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|devalue&lt;br /&gt;
|1918&lt;br /&gt;
|describing an unwelcome attitude or act, as in &amp;quot;devaluing human life&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|devotee&lt;br /&gt;
|1645&lt;br /&gt;
|ardent follower, supporter, or loyalty to. 56 years separates devotee and devoted&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|disinformation&lt;br /&gt;
|1950s&lt;br /&gt;
|false information spread (and sometimes manufactured) by groups with a strong political agenda&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|division of labor&lt;br /&gt;
|1776&lt;br /&gt;
|increasing productivity through specialization of labor, as in a husband working in manufacturing while his wife cares for children&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|domino effect&lt;br /&gt;
|1966&lt;br /&gt;
|how the fall of one nation to communism can result in its harmful spread to neighboring nations&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|double standard&lt;br /&gt;
|1894&lt;br /&gt;
|applying harsher criticism against one group, such as churchgoers or conservatives, than against another group, such as atheists or liberals; recognition of a double standard by the [[Prodigal Son]] led him to repent and convert&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|doublethink&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|a term first coined by [[George Orwell]] in his dystopian novel ''[[1984]]''; it means simultaneously holding contradictory beliefs, which is a characteristic of [[status worship]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|doubting Thomas&lt;br /&gt;
|1883&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who believes only what he can see and touch, and doubts all else&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dumb down&lt;br /&gt;
|1933&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Eagle Scout&lt;br /&gt;
|1913&lt;br /&gt;
|the highest rank in the [[Boy Scouts]], the term also means &amp;quot;a straight-arrow and self-reliant man.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (1994).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|editorialize&lt;br /&gt;
|1856&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;to introduce opinion into the reporting of facts&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster (1994).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[efficiency]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1633&lt;br /&gt;
|ultimately from the Latin ''efficientem'', meaning ''&amp;quot;working out, or accomplishing&amp;quot;''&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=efficient Online Etymological Dictionary]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|egotism&lt;br /&gt;
|1714&lt;br /&gt;
|the root of atheism, as explained by Paul in Romans 1:21-22; the root of depression and anxiety also&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[elementary proof]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1865&lt;br /&gt;
|a mathematical proof based on the minimum assumptions associated with real analysis; term probably does not predate [[complex analysis]] and its first use may have been the English mathematician James Joseph Sylvester's paper, &amp;quot;On an elementary proof and generalisation of Sir Isaac Newton's hitherto undenionstrated rule for the discovery of imaginary roots.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.archive.org/stream/circular129johnuoft/circular129johnuoft_djvu.txt&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[elitism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1950&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[entitlement]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1944&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|entrepreneur&lt;br /&gt;
|1852&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[ethnic voting]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|widely recognized and even advocated by some,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/5/2/3/4/p152345_index.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; yet the dictionary doesn't yet recognize it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Eurosceptic&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who opposes joining the super-socialist [[European Union]]; some prefer the term &amp;quot;Eurorealist&amp;quot; to express this opposition, and sometimes &amp;quot;Eurosceptic&amp;quot; is used to criticize opponents of the EU&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|exceptional&lt;br /&gt;
|1787&lt;br /&gt;
|same year of origin as the [[U.S. Constitution]]!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|exculpatory&lt;br /&gt;
|1781&lt;br /&gt;
|often used in the phrase &amp;quot;exculpatory evidence,&amp;quot; it took nearly 50 years to develop this term after origination of the legal term suggesting guilt: &amp;quot;incriminate&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|faith healing&lt;br /&gt;
|1885&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[falsifiability]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1934&lt;br /&gt;
|first emphasized by Karl Popper in 1934, this helps define science:  if a proposition is false, then it can be shown to be false.  If not, then the proposition is not scientific.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[family values]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1916&lt;br /&gt;
|widespread use after a speech by Vice President [[Dan Quayle]], 1992 &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|father figure&lt;br /&gt;
|1934&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who fulfills the essential role of a father&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[federalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1789&lt;br /&gt;
|the unique system of dual sovereigns, state and federal (national), established by the [[U.S. Constitution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|feedback&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|an all-important element of accountability and improvement, and a key consideration in good engineering design&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[fellow traveller]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1925&lt;br /&gt;
|may have existed earlier, but popularized in 1924 by Leon Trotsky. Describes a sympathizer of a cause but who does not formally belong to the cause, such as a [[communist]] sympathizer who is not part of the communist party. The term was invented by the communists in its original, non-negative sense, but the conservatives were the first to use it as a pejorative term. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Flip flop (politics)|flip-flop]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1976&lt;br /&gt;
|''verb'', meaning to change political position, typically due to [[liberal]] pressure.  First used by the Republican S.I. Hayakawa campaign to describe California Democratic incumbent U.S. Senator John Tunney, whom Hayakawa defeated in an upset.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|force-feed&lt;br /&gt;
|1901&lt;br /&gt;
|what liberals do to students in [[public schools]] today in training them to be [[atheist]]ic socialists&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|forward-looking&lt;br /&gt;
|1800&lt;br /&gt;
|planning for the future rather than dwelling on the past&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Founding Fathers&lt;br /&gt;
|1914&lt;br /&gt;
|the several dozen [[Christian]] men &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html Religious Affiliation of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America, Adherents.com]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; who helped draft the formative documents of the United States&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[free enterprise]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1820&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|free market&lt;br /&gt;
|1907&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|free world&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|areas of the world free of communism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|galvanize&lt;br /&gt;
|1802&lt;br /&gt;
|as in, &amp;quot;the liberal proposals ''galvanized'' the grassroots in opposition&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gang up&lt;br /&gt;
|1925&lt;br /&gt;
|group pressure&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gateway drug&lt;br /&gt;
|1982&lt;br /&gt;
|abuse of alcohol/marijuana eventually leads to harder drugs cocaine/heroin&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gerrymandering&lt;br /&gt;
|1812&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by a newspaper editor to criticize the manipulation of the lines of a new district into a salamander shape&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.allbusiness.com/information/publishing-industries/251259-1.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; that favored election of a liberal politician&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gimmick&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&lt;br /&gt;
|originally meant a deceptive mechanical device for controlling a [[gambling]] machine, and then its meaning expanded to include all trickery to attract attention&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|globalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1997&lt;br /&gt;
|MW states it was first used in 1943&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/globalism&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and the OED gives a date of 1965 for the exact term 'globalism'&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50095613/50095613se2?single=1&amp;amp;query_type=word&amp;amp;queryword=globalism&amp;amp;first=1&amp;amp;max_to_show=10&amp;amp;hilite=50095613se2&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; the term &amp;quot;globalization&amp;quot; was first used in the mid-1980s in a different, complimentary sense.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|godsend&lt;br /&gt;
|1820&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|go-getter&lt;br /&gt;
|1921&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gold standard&lt;br /&gt;
|1831&lt;br /&gt;
|the highest standard; in currency, when money could be exchanged for a fixed amount of gold&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Good Samaritan&lt;br /&gt;
|1640&lt;br /&gt;
|how genuine charity is the best approach&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|goon&lt;br /&gt;
|1926&lt;br /&gt;
|a dim-witted thug, espec. one who intimidates on behalf of a union&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[grade inflation]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1975&lt;br /&gt;
|the tendency by Liberal educationalists and public schools to increase marks, irrespective of merit or actual achievement.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[grassroots]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1901&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Great Awakening&lt;br /&gt;
|1730-1740&lt;br /&gt;
|Christian spiritualism recurs periodically.  See [[Essay:The Coming Fifth Great Awakening in America]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Gresham's law&lt;br /&gt;
|1858&lt;br /&gt;
|the tendency in a free market for bad money (which loses its value) to drive out (be used more often in transactions) than good money (which retains its value), because people want to horde the good money while getting rid of the bad money; a similar effect can be seen when profanity drives out intelligent discussion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|groupthink&lt;br /&gt;
|1952&lt;br /&gt;
|a style of thought consisting of conformity to a manufactured consensus and self-deception; coined by William H. Whyte in 1952.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hallmark&lt;br /&gt;
|1721&lt;br /&gt;
|purity, authentic, official seal, distinguishing feature&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hardworking&lt;br /&gt;
|1774&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|harmless error&lt;br /&gt;
|1861&lt;br /&gt;
|an insignificant violation of a duty or procedural rule; first used in ''Western Ins. Co. v. The Goody Friends'', 29 F. Cas. 764 (S.D. Ohio 1861) (referring to a duty)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hatchet job&lt;br /&gt;
|1944&lt;br /&gt;
|still looking for the context of its first use; today it means an article, typically by a liberal, that misleadingly smears someone, typically a conservative&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hawthorne effect&lt;br /&gt;
|1962&lt;br /&gt;
|the increase in achievement resulting merely from being observed; this was demonstrated by experiment at the Hawthorne Works of Western Electric in Cicero, Illinois&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|heckler's veto&lt;br /&gt;
|1965&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by University of Chicago Law Professor Harvey Kalven, Jr., a strong supporter of free speech in politics, this term has been used in [[Supreme Court]] decisions by Justices [[Sam Alito]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''See'' ''Pleasant Grove City v. Summum'', 129 S. Ct. 1125 (2009); ''see also'' ''Child Evangelism Fellowship of N.J., Inc. v. Stafford Twp. Sch. Dist.'', 386 F.3d 514 (3rd Cir. 2004).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Antonin Scalia]], and [[Clarence Thomas]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''Good News Club v. Milford Cent. Sch.'', 533 U.S. 98 (2001)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hobson's choice&lt;br /&gt;
|1649&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;this term has the entertaining history of originating with an English liveryman who required customers to &amp;quot;choose&amp;quot; the horse closest to the door.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|an ostensible choice that disguises a lack of freedom, because each alternative is completely unacceptable.  This term is invoked to criticize an illusory freedom of choice.  This term has been used in 48 cases by Supreme Court Justices, more often by conservatives than by liberals.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|honor system&lt;br /&gt;
|1903&lt;br /&gt;
|an approach to discipline that emphasizes and encourages trust, honesty and personal responsibility rather than constant supervision&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[homeschool]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1980&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;the OED assigns a date of origin of 1850 to &amp;quot;homeschool&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[homosexual agenda]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1989&lt;br /&gt;
|used to promote the agenda in the book ''After the Ball'', but then used to criticize the movement by Justice [[Antonin Scalia]] in his dissent in''Lawrence v. Texas'' (2003)''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|human rights&lt;br /&gt;
|1766&lt;br /&gt;
|rights of all peoples, such as to &amp;quot;life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness&amp;quot; as set forth in the [[Declaration of Independence]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hypothesis&lt;br /&gt;
|1656&lt;br /&gt;
|a suggestion, typically scientific in nature, which must be tested and proven before asserted as truth&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hysteria&lt;br /&gt;
|1801&lt;br /&gt;
|From the Latin ''hystericus'', from Greek ''hystera '' meaning ''&amp;quot;womb&amp;quot;''&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hysteria Meriam Webster Dictionary]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; (an old notion that hysteria was caused by the [[womb]]).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|identity politics&lt;br /&gt;
|1988&lt;br /&gt;
|exploiting politics for racial, ethnic, gender equality.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|illiteracy&lt;br /&gt;
|1660&lt;br /&gt;
|liberals seek to produce illiterate voters who lack independence, and many graduates of the [[public schools]] are illiterate today&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incidental inequality&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|inequalities that result as side effects of an objectively just system &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incoherent&lt;br /&gt;
|1626&lt;br /&gt;
|the term often applies to liberal [[double standard]]s&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incompleteness&lt;br /&gt;
|1931&lt;br /&gt;
|a system of logic or mathematics that includes propositions that are impossible to prove or disprove; term coined as a result of [[Kurt Godel]]'s work in 1931&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incrementalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1966&lt;br /&gt;
|imposing bad political or social change slowly&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|independence&lt;br /&gt;
|1640&lt;br /&gt;
|free will&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|individualism&lt;br /&gt;
|1827&lt;br /&gt;
|values, rights and duties arise from the individual&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|inflationary&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|policies causing inflation of the monetary supply&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|informed consent&lt;br /&gt;
|1967&lt;br /&gt;
|consent to surgery is meaningful only if informed, a requirement that should apply to abortion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|initiative&lt;br /&gt;
|1793&lt;br /&gt;
|self-starting first step toward improvement&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|insightful&lt;br /&gt;
|1907&lt;br /&gt;
|what conservatism is about: gaining insights into the truth, and bettering individuals and society with them&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|intangible&lt;br /&gt;
|1914&lt;br /&gt;
|something valuable that cannot be seen or touched, such as goodwill&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|intellectual property&lt;br /&gt;
|1845&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;we [should] protect intellectual property, the labors of the mind, productions and interests as much a man's own, and as much the fruit of his honest industry, as the wheat he cultivates, or the flocks he rears.&amp;quot;  ''Davoll v. Brown'', 7 F. Cas. 197 (Cir. Ct. Mass. 1845) (Woodbury, federal judge).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|interventionism&lt;br /&gt;
|1923&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;governmental interference in economic affairs at home or in political affairs of another country&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster (1994).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|invisible hand&lt;br /&gt;
|1776&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by Adam Smith in the ''Wealth of Nations'' and widely used today.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[invisible hand of marriage]]&lt;br /&gt;
|2008&lt;br /&gt;
|discovered on Conservapedia, it is the unseen force of productivity that results from marriage (only between a man and woman).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Iron curtain&lt;br /&gt;
|1945&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by Winston Churchill in a speech in Missouri just after World War II, to describe the communist's figurative wall against freedom&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[irreducible complexity]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1996&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by [[Michael Behe]] as a structure or system that could not possibly have evolved, because removing any part makes it nonfunctional, thereby showing that [[God]] must have created it whole into biology; if the [[Nobel Prize]] were not dominated by [[atheism]], Behe could win one for this insight.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ivory tower&lt;br /&gt;
|1910&lt;br /&gt;
|a description of the pampered culture of liberal [[professor values|professors]], and how far out of touch with the truth it is&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|John Hancock&lt;br /&gt;
|1903&lt;br /&gt;
|a personal signature, especially in a bold style that stands up for principles as John Hancock did with his signing the Declaration of Independence&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[judicial activism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1947&lt;br /&gt;
|first coined in an article in ''Fortune'' magazine by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/278089&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and repeatedly used in U.S. Supreme Court opinions since 1967,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''United States v. Wade'', &lt;br /&gt;
388 U.S. 218 (1967).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; yet as of 2009 [[Merriam-Webster]] dictionary still fails to recognize this widely used term.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|judicial prejudice&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|the bias of a judge in favor of a political correct identity group intended to rig outcome equality in favor of that group based on subjective bias rather than objective justice.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|judicial restraint&lt;br /&gt;
|1942&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;Assuming that this court has power to act, it does not necessarily follow that it should act. ... In a number of situations, and in a number of cases, it has been held that courts should voluntarily refrain from using or asserting power. Where the use or assertion of power might be destructive of a well defined purpose of law or of a declared public policy such voluntarily imposed '''judicial restraint''' may be commendable.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Osage Tribe of Indians v. Ickes, 45 F. Supp. 179, 184-85 (D.D.C. 1942) (emphasis added).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|judicial supremacist&lt;br /&gt;
|2004&lt;br /&gt;
|one who advocates that the courts should be supreme over the other branches of government for certain legal issues; first coined in a book by [[Phyllis Schlafly]]; first used by the judiciary by the Michigan Supreme Court in ''Paige v. City of Sterling Heights'', 476 Mich. 495 (2006).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;A similar yet different concept, &amp;quot;judicial supremacy,&amp;quot; was coined by [[conservative]] Supreme Court Justice [[Robert H. Jackson]] as the title of his book,'' The Struggle for Judicial Supremacy: A Study of a Crisis in American Political Power'' (New York: Knopf, 1941).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[judicial taking]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1982&lt;br /&gt;
|the deprivation of private property due to a court decision; this concept was introduced by conservative Justice [[Potter Stewart]] in 1967, and the term was used for the first time independently by the Michigan and Hawaii Supreme Courts in the same month (!) in December 1982, and then used often in law review articles and Circuit Court decisions in the 2000s, and then four Justices of the [[U.S. Supreme Court]] endorsed the principle in a decision in 2010, with two others accepting the possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[junk science]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1962&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://rated.com/dir/Society/Issues/Environment/Opposing_Views/Junk_Science&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the corruption of the scientific method to advance other, often political, goals (such as [[Global Warming]])&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jury nullification&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|the power of a jury to overrule the law and acquit an ostensibly guilty defendant; the power was established in the colonies in 1735 in the trial of [[John Peter Zenger]], but this term was first used in state court by Pfeuffer v. Haas, 55 S.W.2d 111 (Tex. Civ. App. 1932) and in federal court by ''Skidmore v. Baltimore &amp;amp; O. R. Co.'', 167 F.2d 54 (2nd Cir. 1948)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kiss of death&lt;br /&gt;
|1943&lt;br /&gt;
|from Judas's betrayal of Jesus with a kiss, Mark 14:44-4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kowtow&lt;br /&gt;
|1826&lt;br /&gt;
|obsequious, unthinking obedience to someone or something, used especially in the context of dictatorships and liberal belief systems&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Kremlinology&lt;br /&gt;
|1958&lt;br /&gt;
|the study of the otherwise indecipherable behavior of the government of the [[communist]] [[Soviet Union]]. Refers to the Kremlin, the traditional seat of Russian government (Soviet or not). &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|labor camp&lt;br /&gt;
|1900&lt;br /&gt;
|forced work prison&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|laissez-faire&lt;br /&gt;
|1825&lt;br /&gt;
|opposing governmental interference in economic affairs beyond what is minimally necessary&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|lame duck&lt;br /&gt;
|1761&lt;br /&gt;
|one falling being in achievement, especially a public official whose power is limited because his term in office is set to expire without possibility of reelection.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|lamestream media&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by Bernie Goldberg to describe the clueless [[Mainstream media]] that repeat superficial, discredited liberal claptrap&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|landslide&lt;br /&gt;
|1838&lt;br /&gt;
|In the political sense, an overwhelming election victory. A clear, democratic expression of popular will.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|leadership&lt;br /&gt;
|1821&lt;br /&gt;
|an ability and willingness to lead, often by example&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|leftism&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|principles and doctrine of leftists&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|leverage&lt;br /&gt;
|1830&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|life vest&lt;br /&gt;
|1939&lt;br /&gt;
|a pro-life invention&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|local&lt;br /&gt;
|1824&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This date refers to its first usage as a ''noun'', which is an estimate of its adoption as a concept.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|common usage: &amp;quot;all politics is local&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|locomotive&lt;br /&gt;
|1829&lt;br /&gt;
|a great engine of economic growth during the [[Industrial Revolution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|lone wolf&lt;br /&gt;
|1909&lt;br /&gt;
|a person who prefers to work, act, or live alone. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lone%20wolf Lone wolf, Merriam-Webster]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; synonymous with self-sufficiency&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|loose cannon&lt;br /&gt;
|1973&lt;br /&gt;
|an undisciplined person or program that dangerously lacks forethought; used in mid-November 1976 to describe $11 billion in unspent appropriations by the Ford Administration:  &amp;quot;'That money,' says Arnold Packer, a senior Senate Budget Committee economist who is helping Carter draw up his shadow budget, 'is like a loose cannon rolling around the deck' because a sudden reappearance of the funds could be inflationary.&amp;quot; (''BusinessWeek'')&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|lunatic fringe&lt;br /&gt;
|1913&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by U.S. President [[Theodore Roosevelt]] to describe members of eccentric, radical or extremist groups&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lunatic&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|machismo&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|a word never used favorably by feminists!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|man-hater&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This was during the epic struggle -- and defeat -- of the so-called [[Equal Rights Amendment]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|William Safire wrote in the ''New York Times'' in 1983, &amp;quot;Misandry, from the Greek misandros for 'hating men,' is in the 1961 Merriam-Webster New International Dictionary, and the Oxford Dictionary Supplement traces it to 1946.  The word is pronounced as 'Ms. Andry,' but I wonder why we need the Greek word for it. What's wrong with good, old-fashioned man-hater?&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Sunday, Oct. 30, 1983, Section 6, Page 12, Column 3.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|make-work&lt;br /&gt;
|1923&lt;br /&gt;
|inefficient or useless activity that has the false appearance of being productive; a favorite endeavor of liberals&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|manifest destiny&lt;br /&gt;
|1845&lt;br /&gt;
|Providential design over future events, which originated in the context of expanding the United States to the Pacific Ocean&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|materialism&lt;br /&gt;
|1748&lt;br /&gt;
|the view of life that physical matter is all that exists; as an &amp;quot;ism&amp;quot;, the term criticizes such view&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|melting pot&lt;br /&gt;
|1912&lt;br /&gt;
|requires &amp;quot;social and cultural assimilation&amp;quot; for successful immigration&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster dictionary (1994)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[meritocracy]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1958&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[microeconomics]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1947&lt;br /&gt;
|the study of the economics of the individual person or business&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mindset&lt;br /&gt;
|1926&lt;br /&gt;
|close-minded point-of-view, typically in adherence to a liberal falsehood and often to the exclusion of Christ&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|missile defense&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by President Ronald Reagan as part of [[SDI]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|missionary&lt;br /&gt;
|1625&lt;br /&gt;
|someone sent on a mission, typically a religious mission&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|mobocracy&lt;br /&gt;
|1754&lt;br /&gt;
|rule by a mob, as at Wikipedia&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|monogamy&lt;br /&gt;
|1612&lt;br /&gt;
|this has the same date of origin as &amp;quot;productive&amp;quot;, and that may not be a coincidence!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|motivation&lt;br /&gt;
|1873&lt;br /&gt;
|can you believe the word did not exist before 1873?!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|muckety–muck&lt;br /&gt;
|1912&lt;br /&gt;
|a pejorative term for an arrogant person who holds a title or position considered to be important by others&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Murphy's Law&lt;br /&gt;
|1958&lt;br /&gt;
|if something can go wrong, then it will go wrong: this was a conservative insight by an engineer Edward Murphy&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|muscle car&lt;br /&gt;
|1967&lt;br /&gt;
|placing a powerful engine in a classic two-door car for highly efficient performance; also celebrate masculine style against erosion by feminism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|myopic&lt;br /&gt;
|1752&lt;br /&gt;
|originally a term in optometry, 1990's used to describe liberals' lack of foresight&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanny state&lt;br /&gt;
|1978&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;Under the New Economic Policy, [the new French Prime Minister Raymond] Barre has made it clear that industrial lame ducks can no longer count on the generosity of Nanny i.e. the state - for bailing out.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Leo Ryan, &amp;quot;Economy Shored up: France's new surge of liberalism,&amp;quot; The Globe and Mail (Canada) (Aug. 1, 1978)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Note how two powerful new conservative terms led to a third here!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|negativism&lt;br /&gt;
|1824&lt;br /&gt;
|mental attitude that tends that is skeptical about almost everything, except one's own views&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|newspeak&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|political or media expressions using circumlocution and euphemisms to disguise or distract from the truth; first coined by [[George Orwell]] in ''[[1984]]''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|non-justiciable&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Used by the state attorneys for West Virginia (including Philip Steptoe, founder of Steptoe &amp;amp; Johnson) in ''Pennsylvania v. West Virginia'', 262 U.S. 553 (1923):  &amp;quot;It is not the 'subject of judicial cognizance,' Hans v. Louisiana, 134 U.S. 1, 15; Louisiana v. Texas, 176 U.S 1, 15; Missouri v. Illinois, 180 U.S. 208, 233, or 'susceptible of judicial solution.' Louisiana v. Texas, 176 U.S. 1, 18, 22; Missouri v. Illinois, 180 U.S. 208, 233, 234.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|a difficult issue that the courts should not attempt to resolve, often because it is too political in nature&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|non-locality&lt;br /&gt;
|1920s&lt;br /&gt;
|[[action at a distance]] at the atomic level; even though proven, it is still opposed by those who believe in [[relativity]] and still not recognized by Merriam-Webster&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Old Glory&lt;br /&gt;
|1862&lt;br /&gt;
|the ''United States of America'' flag, Stars &amp;amp; Stripes&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|one-size-fits-all&lt;br /&gt;
|1996&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Was there an earlier conservative use?  Frank Zappa's album cover in the 1970s does not count!&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|Lee Wishing, director of communications for conservative [[Grove City College]], in criticism of how the government administers student loans: &amp;quot;Unfortunately, with government programs, it's one size fits all.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1996/dec96/er-dec96.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The 2008 Republican platform states, &amp;quot;We reject a one-size-fits-all approach and support parental options, including home schooling, and local innovations such as schools or classes for boys only or for girls only and alternative and innovative school schedules.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://platform.gop.com/2008Platform.pdf&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|open-minded&lt;br /&gt;
|1828&lt;br /&gt;
|see [[Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[opportunity cost]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1911&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|optimism&lt;br /&gt;
|1759&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|originalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1985&lt;br /&gt;
|taken from original intent, The belief that the United States Constitution should be interpreted in the way the authors originally intended it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Orwellian&lt;br /&gt;
|1960s&lt;br /&gt;
|terminology or style that advances the power of big government but is hurtful or nonsensical&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=604&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ostensibly&lt;br /&gt;
|1765&lt;br /&gt;
|having an outward appearance that may not reflect the underlying truth; good potential use is Luke 3:23 in describing Jesus as the son of Joseph&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|parenting&lt;br /&gt;
|1958&lt;br /&gt;
|children raising&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Parkinson's Law&lt;br /&gt;
|1955&lt;br /&gt;
|how bureaucracies expand regardless of the productivity, and how inefficient work expands to fill the time available for its completion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[patent troll]]&lt;br /&gt;
|2001&lt;br /&gt;
|a company that obtains or buys up patents for the sole purpose of asserting infringement claims, and without any intention of actually manufacturing the invention; the term was first coined by Peter Detkin, in-house counsel to Intel&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|patriotism&lt;br /&gt;
|1726&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Pavlovian&lt;br /&gt;
|1926&lt;br /&gt;
|a conditioned, automatic and unthinking response to a signal; it has been used twice by [[conservative]] Supreme Court Justices. &amp;quot;It is well established that this Court does not, or at least should not, respond in Pavlovian fashion to confessions of error by the [[Solicitor General]].&amp;quot;  ''De Marco v. United States'', 415 U.S. 449, 451 (1974) ([[Rehnquist]], J., dissenting); &amp;quot;'[[Incorporation doctrine|Incorporation]]' has become so Pavlovian that my Brother BLACK barely mentions the [[Fourteenth Amendment]] in the course of an 11-page opinion dealing with the procedural rule the State of [[Florida]] has adopted for cases tried in Florida courts under Florida's criminal laws.&amp;quot; '' Williams v. Fla.'', 399 U.S. 78, 144 (1970) ([[Potter Stewart|Stewart]], J., dissenting and concurring).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|perpetual war&lt;br /&gt;
|1947&lt;br /&gt;
|Coined by historian Charles A. Beard,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Charles A. Beard is best known for interpreting the Constitution as being primarily motivated by economic interests.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; it has been used most recently by [[Ann Coulter]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[personhood]] &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/personhood Personhood] Dictionary.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|1955&lt;br /&gt;
|Inherent rights guaranteed to all human beings from the beginning of their biological development, including the pre-born, partially born. Also, the state or fact of being a person.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Philadelphia&lt;br /&gt;
|1682&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by [[William Penn]] and meaning &amp;quot;city of brotherly love,&amp;quot; the concept captures the &amp;quot;[[best of the public]]&amp;quot; approach&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[phonics]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1684&lt;br /&gt;
|conservatives have long championed phonics to promote literacy, Bible-reading, and informed voters; liberals take the opposite position&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|phony&lt;br /&gt;
|1900&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This surprisingly recent origin appears to be derived from a British confidence game.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|needed to address [[liberal deceit]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|political machine&lt;br /&gt;
|1905&lt;br /&gt;
|a pejorative term for local and typically Democratic power structures that prevent outsiders from winning elections; first used by George Washington Plunkitt to criticize the Tammany Hall machine for which he served&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|[[politically correct]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1983&lt;br /&gt;
|This term originated among radicals at the [[University of Wisconsin-Madison]] to enforce radical orthodoxy, but immediately flipped in usage to become a term of mockery of radicals.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;For an early different usage of the word, see 1793 J. WILSON in U.S. Rep. (U.S. Supreme Court) 2 (1798) 462 Sentiments and expressions of this inaccurate kind prevail in our..language... ‘The United States’, instead of the ‘People of the United States’, is the toast given. This is not politically correct.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The term may have come from Chairman Mao in 1936.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|politicize&lt;br /&gt;
|1846&lt;br /&gt;
|seeking political gain at the expense of truth or quality&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The Merriam-Webster definition (1994 ed.) is incomplete and unclear: &amp;quot;to give a political tone or character to&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|potential&lt;br /&gt;
|1817&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Usage here refers to &amp;quot;promise&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;possibility&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|privatize&lt;br /&gt;
|1940&lt;br /&gt;
|to return a business or enterprise from state to private control; to de-nationalize.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|proactive&lt;br /&gt;
|1933&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|productive&lt;br /&gt;
|1612&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|productivity&lt;br /&gt;
|1810&lt;br /&gt;
|the gap of about 200 years between the creation of &amp;quot;productive&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;productivity&amp;quot; is astounding&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[pro-life]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1960&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|property right&lt;br /&gt;
|1853&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|provocateur&lt;br /&gt;
|1919&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who spends more time causing unproductive conflicts rather than advancing knowledge, accomplishing legitimate goals, or helping anyone&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|quantify&lt;br /&gt;
|1840&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|race card&lt;br /&gt;
|1995&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This is the date of its widespread familiarity.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;Playing the race card&amp;quot; consists of relying on racial emotions or charges of racism in order to overcome the truth and logic in politics, legal proceedings, or otherwise; this term became familiar in the criticism of the defense and acquittal of O.J. Simpson for the murder of his ex-wife and her friend.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rapture&lt;br /&gt;
|1629&lt;br /&gt;
|spiritual ecstasy[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=rapture]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[recidivism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1886&lt;br /&gt;
|the tendency for people lacking in [[faith]] and determination to revert to prior patterns of harmful behavior, such as repeat criminal offenders&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|recuse&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|self-removal by a decision-maker (especially a judge) because of possible bias with respect to the pending issue&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|red tape&lt;br /&gt;
|1736&lt;br /&gt;
|excessive bureaucracy and procedural complexity which frustrate meaningful activity and progress&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[relativism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1865&lt;br /&gt;
|the view that ethical truths are not absolute, but depend on the person or group that holds them&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[responsibility]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1737&lt;br /&gt;
|1787 HAMILTON Federalist No. 63 II. 193 Responsibility in order to be reasonable must be limited to objects within the power of the responsible party.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|reverse discrimination&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|the use of quotas or affirmative action to use race or gender to discriminate against a better qualified person&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|revisionism&lt;br /&gt;
|1903&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The first use of this term, now obscure, refers to a Marxist movement that preferred evolutionary rather than revolutionary change.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|distortions of history to promote liberal bias&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|riot act&lt;br /&gt;
|1715&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Its colloquial use, as in &amp;quot;read them the riot act,&amp;quot; began in 1819.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the Riot Act was a law passed in England in 1715 to authorize officials to disperse riots&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|scapegoating&lt;br /&gt;
|1943&lt;br /&gt;
|a term criticizing how people, particularly liberals, deflect accountability and blame from themselves to others; inspired by Leviticus 16:8.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|salutary neglect&lt;br /&gt;
|1775&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by the [[conservative]] [[Edmund Burke]] in his 1775 speech to the British [[House of Commons]] entitled &amp;quot;On Moving His Resolutions for Conciliation with the Colonies&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.archive.org/stream/burkesspeechonco00burkuoft/burkesspeechonco00burkuoft_djvu.txt&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|school choice&lt;br /&gt;
|1980&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by Milton Friedman in his book, ''Free to Choose'' &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[scientific fascism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|a coordinated effort by a group of scientists to enforce a certain point of view upon others.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Segway&lt;br /&gt;
|2001&lt;br /&gt;
|Dean Kamen's trademark spelling of &amp;quot;segue&amp;quot; for use of Yankee Ingenuity to improve efficiency, to refer to a form of battery-powered transportation.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[self-defense]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1651&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|self-destruct&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|often the tragic result of liberal falsehoods&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Discipline|self-discipline]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1838&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|self-reliant&lt;br /&gt;
|1848&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|separation of powers&lt;br /&gt;
|1748&lt;br /&gt;
|the fundamental insight underlying the [[U.S. Constitution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|skullduggery&lt;br /&gt;
|1867&lt;br /&gt;
|underhanded or unscrupulous behavior&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|slippery slope&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|term has been widely used for decades to expose the fallacy of &amp;quot;it doesn't hurt to try&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smoke and mirrors&lt;br /&gt;
|1979&lt;br /&gt;
|something intended to disguise or draw attention away from an often embarrassing or unpleasant issue. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/smoke%20and%20mirrors Smoke and Mirrors, Merriam-Webster]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Widely used during the 1990s to describe [[Bill Clinton]]'s political strategy.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smoking gun&lt;br /&gt;
|1974&lt;br /&gt;
|a law-and-order term, &amp;quot;smoking gun&amp;quot; was first used as figurative term in a reported judicial decision in ''Rodgers v. United States Steel Corp.'', 1975 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 12775 (W.D. Pa. Apr. 20, 1975), and many literal uses of the term in court decisions before that!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[socialist]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1827&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who advocates government control over the economy, and particularly state control of the means of production&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|social justice rhetoric&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|Language and rhetorical ploys equating equality of outcome with justice.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|spend-and-tax&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/02/morning-bell-the-obama-tax-and-spend-economy-is-here/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|a variation on &amp;quot;tax-and-spend&amp;quot; (see below), &amp;quot;spend-and-tax&amp;quot; consists of spending the money first and then trying to justify raising taxes based on the deficit created by the spending&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stalking horse&lt;br /&gt;
|1788&lt;br /&gt;
|a candidate or issue that serves to increase the chances that ''another'' will win, as in &amp;quot;antifederalists attempted to win elections by using 'the stalking horse of amendments.'&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''Centinel'', 1788 (quoted in ''The Federalist party in Massachusetts to the year 1800'', By Anson Ely Morse).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[statism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1919&lt;br /&gt;
|advocates for centralized government and government ownership&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|straightforward&lt;br /&gt;
|1806&lt;br /&gt;
|something liberals are not&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|straw man&lt;br /&gt;
|1896&lt;br /&gt;
|an imaginary argument or example set up for the purpose of easily knocking down, while distracting from valid arguments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Stupaked&lt;br /&gt;
|2010&lt;br /&gt;
|hurt by someone who reassured everyone he would do the right thing, but then switched at the last minute to do the opposite (refers especially to [[abortion betrayal]]s)&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Columnist Kathleen Parker is credited with first coining this term.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|supply-side&lt;br /&gt;
|1976&lt;br /&gt;
|the economic theory that reducing taxes expands economic activity by encouraging greater earnings and investments; proven successful during the Reagan Administration in the 1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|takeover&lt;br /&gt;
|1917&lt;br /&gt;
|as in the takeover of government by the communist revolution in that year&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tax-and-spend&lt;br /&gt;
|1937 &lt;br /&gt;
|not yet recognized by Merriam-Webster, it is included in dictionary.com and it means the liberal policy of raising taxes and increasing government spending&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|taxpayer&lt;br /&gt;
|1816&lt;br /&gt;
|the word highlights who is really paying for things&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[term limits]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1861&lt;br /&gt;
|can you believe this is not in the dictionary yet? Merriam-Webster omits it, but dictionary.com has it&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/term+limit&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|terrorism&lt;br /&gt;
|1795&lt;br /&gt;
|this was during the French Revolution&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[textualism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1952&lt;br /&gt;
|first used by Justice [[Robert Jackson]] in his influential concurrence in ''[[Youngstown Sheet and Tube Co. v. Sawyer]]'', 343 U.S. 579 (1952), it now describes the legal philosophy of Justice [[Antonin Scalia]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|top-notch&lt;br /&gt;
|1900&lt;br /&gt;
|the highest quality, which requires respect for merit to recognize&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[totalitarianism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1926&lt;br /&gt;
|term which identifies the similarities of fascist and communist regimes and ideologies and urges resistance&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tour de force&lt;br /&gt;
|1802&lt;br /&gt;
|a feat of skill&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|trademark&lt;br /&gt;
|1838&lt;br /&gt;
|extends the concept of private property to the marks used by business&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|traditionalist&lt;br /&gt;
|1856&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;adherence to the doctrines or practices of a tradition...the beliefs of those opposed to modernism, liberalism, or radicalism&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/traditionalist&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[transaction cost]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1961&lt;br /&gt;
|Economist [[Ronald Coase]] won a [[Nobel Prize]] for this.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[transistor]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|named by John R. Pierce and developed at the [[conservative]] [[Bell Labs]], this invention epitomized Yankee ingenuity; Pierce was a critic of claims of [[artificial intelligence]] and was the future developer of [[Telstar]], a precursor to the [[Strategic Defense Initiative]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tree huggers&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&lt;br /&gt;
|still not recognized by the dictionary, this term criticizes extreme environmentalists, but they proudly use the term also to describe what they literally do&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|trivia&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|insignificant detail, which can sometimes obscure what is important and distract people from the Bible; liberal [[Wikipedia]] is filled with trivial junk&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Trojan horse&lt;br /&gt;
|1837&lt;br /&gt;
|describes a type of liberal [[deceit]]:  subversion from within&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|trust but verify&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by President Ronald Reagan as the approach to use towards communist [[deceit]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ugly duckling&lt;br /&gt;
|1883&lt;br /&gt;
|an unpromising appearance but often with great unseen potential&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ultra vires&lt;br /&gt;
|1793&lt;br /&gt;
|beyond the authority, especially of a government or corporate official&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|unborn child&lt;br /&gt;
|1791&lt;br /&gt;
|the rights of the unborn child have been recognized in English law since the 1600s, but the specific term &amp;quot;unborn child&amp;quot; itself may have been first used by an attorney arguing before the New Jersey Supreme Court in ''Den v. Sparks'', 1 N.J.L. 67 (Sup. Ct. 1791)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|underdog&lt;br /&gt;
|1887&lt;br /&gt;
|[[David]] v. [[Goliath]], [[Cinderella]], [[best of the public]], etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|underemployed&lt;br /&gt;
|1908&lt;br /&gt;
|having less than full-time or suitable employment&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|vandalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1798&lt;br /&gt;
|malicious destruction of someone else's property&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|veracity&lt;br /&gt;
|1623&lt;br /&gt;
|devotion to truthfulness&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|vet&lt;br /&gt;
|1904&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.slate.com/id/2199254/?from=rss&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|a verb meaning to screen for flaws&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[victimization]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1840&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|volunteer&lt;br /&gt;
|1618&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who freely offers to help&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|wannabe&lt;br /&gt;
|1981&lt;br /&gt;
|a word that criticizes liberal [[status worship]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|War on Terror&lt;br /&gt;
|2001&lt;br /&gt;
|no listing at Merriam-Webster February 2, 2009 Obama ends use of the conservative lexicon. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=17455 Obama administration drops 'war on terror' phrase] Pew Forum, February 2, 2009&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|waterloo&lt;br /&gt;
|1816&lt;br /&gt;
|a final defeat or setback, coined merely one year after the [[English]] defeated [[Napoleon]] at the [[Battle of Waterloo]]; there has never been a &amp;quot;waterloo&amp;quot; for [[Christianity]] or [[conservatism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|wildcatter&lt;br /&gt;
|1883&lt;br /&gt;
|a pro-energy term that describes someone who drills for oil in fields not known to have oil&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|word poverty&lt;br /&gt;
|2001&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/summer2001/lang_gap_moats.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by President [[George W. Bush]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|work (physical sense)&lt;br /&gt;
|1826&lt;br /&gt;
|a physical measure&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;force times distance&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of effort used to increase energy&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|work ethic&lt;br /&gt;
|1951&lt;br /&gt;
|a habit of working as a moral good&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|worldview&lt;br /&gt;
|1858&lt;br /&gt;
|a comprehensive way of looking at life and the world; sometimes used to criticize a liberal's irrational belief system&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|yellow journalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1898&lt;br /&gt;
|the practice, started by newspaper publishers Joseph Pulitzer and his rival William Randolph Hearst, of sensationalizing and biasing newspaper headlines and articles in order to influence public opinion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__ &amp;lt;!--Do not remove this. We want to keep insights on the first screen of viewing--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Conservative Words Not Yet Recognized by the Dictionary ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A thousand new words are developed in English each year.  Here is a growing list of conservative concepts, each of which is not yet defined by a single word or two.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Not Yet Recognized Terms&lt;br /&gt;
!Suggestions&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|pre-9/11 thinking&lt;br /&gt;
|9/10 mindset&lt;br /&gt;
|terror is jurisdiction of the courts&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|anti-family&lt;br /&gt;
|tradition opposer, familiopathic&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|causing harm by spreading falsehoods&lt;br /&gt;
|deceit&lt;br /&gt;
|e.g., denying or concealing disease and infertility caused by promiscuity&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cradle to grave &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/spanish/from%20cradle%20to%20grave cradle to grave- no entry found] Merriam-Websters&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|sanctity of life, conception to natural death&lt;br /&gt;
|pro-life stance, also can mean socialist entitlement programs&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cut and run&lt;br /&gt;
|surrender advocates&lt;br /&gt;
|when the going gets tough, run away from the problem&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deliberate ignorance]]&lt;br /&gt;
|mind-locked, self-centered pride obscuring the truth&lt;br /&gt;
|the term exists; the dictionary does not yet include it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|denial that [[Hell]] exists&lt;br /&gt;
|Hell-denier? Antinfernal? (Should be &amp;quot;antihadessic&amp;quot; so as not to mix Hellenate and Latinate roots)&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[abstinence denial|denier of the effectiveness of abstinence]]&lt;br /&gt;
|abstinence-denier?&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|drive-by media&lt;br /&gt;
|partisan slander&lt;br /&gt;
|liberal mainstream media assault on the GOP or conservative principles, deceitful attacks for opposing viewpoints&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[earmark]]&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|spending on specific projects at the request of a particular congressman, and without meaningful examination by others voting on it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|easily amused by [[deceit]]&lt;br /&gt;
|dolophile&lt;br /&gt;
|from Greek/Latin root ''dolo-'' meaning guile, deceit, deception [http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/664]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|family-friendly&lt;br /&gt;
|wholesome&lt;br /&gt;
|describes TV programming, websites, social events that are not offensive&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hatred of one's country, refusal to recognize the good elements of it, or unreasonably critical of it&lt;br /&gt;
|misopatria, misopatrist&lt;br /&gt;
|From Greek ''misein'', to hate, and Latin ''patria'', nation or homeland&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|heavenly body&lt;br /&gt;
|celestial body&lt;br /&gt;
|natural objects visible in the sky&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hellbound&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|recognized by over 1.3 million sites in a Google search and no substitute term is available, yet dictionaries refuse to recognize it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hoax and Chains&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Keynesian economics]]&lt;br /&gt;
|a phonetic play on the rhetoric slogan of Hope and Change. Hope replaced by unemployment and Change represents obsessive tax burdens. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hoax plant&lt;br /&gt;
|fake townhall, kkk teaparty&lt;br /&gt;
|a term to describe a deceitful method of placing an operative that appears to be part of a group in order to push an agenda or to make a competing agenda look ridiculous. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Hollywood values]]&lt;br /&gt;
|West Coast Hedonism &lt;br /&gt;
|Over 800,000 results on Google, not yet recognized by Merriam-Webster&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Illegal Alien|illegal alien]]&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|widely used in court decisions and political discourse for years, Merriam-Webster still does not recognize it is as a term.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|infotainment&lt;br /&gt;
|tabloid news, dramacast&lt;br /&gt;
|mainstream media presents drama fluff stories as news, e.g. 20/20 - Datelin&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[limited government]]&lt;br /&gt;
|we the people democracy&lt;br /&gt;
|first testament to this was the [[U.S. Constitution]], defining [[Reagan]]s presidency, can't be found in Merriam-Websters. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/limited%20government Limited government - Not found] Merriam-Webster's&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[limousine liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
|hypocrite&lt;br /&gt;
|rich promoting causes which they themselves don't adhere to&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|merit pay&lt;br /&gt;
|performance bonus&lt;br /&gt;
|Doing your job better with perks as a reward. The typical liberal union teacher avoids merit pay at all costs, self before students. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[militant gays]]&lt;br /&gt;
|intimidating homosexual&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|modern idolatry&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;media idolatry&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;money idolatry&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;celebrity idolatry&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|idolatry conjures images of golden calves, and a modern version is needed&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|moral fabric&lt;br /&gt;
|domestic tranquility&lt;br /&gt;
|ethics and virtues united for the common good of all&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|morally bankrupt&lt;br /&gt;
|[[atheism]], self-void  &lt;br /&gt;
|ethically and spiritually challenged souls&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|opposite of [[global warming]]&lt;br /&gt;
|regional warming&lt;br /&gt;
|the North pole shrinks as the South pole increases&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|opposite of [[materialism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|spiritualism and idealism have been its philosophical opposites, historically&lt;br /&gt;
|[[dualism]] has been suggested, but it is not the ''opposite'' of [[materialism]]; &amp;quot;spiritualism&amp;quot; is not a common term and is the &amp;quot;opposite&amp;quot; of materialism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[peer pressure]]&lt;br /&gt;
|used in titles to professional journal articles as early as 1994&lt;br /&gt;
|can you believe that isn't recognized by Merriam-Webster?&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|proven wrong, a refusal to admit it&lt;br /&gt;
|mulism; heel-digger?&lt;br /&gt;
|cf. mulish. This refusal is what promoted the [[Parable of the Good Samaritan]]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|religious right&lt;br /&gt;
|Christian conservatives&lt;br /&gt;
|religion in America almost exclusively a conservative institution, no religious left term in existence.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|reward failure&lt;br /&gt;
|TARP &lt;br /&gt;
|too big to fail, bailout bankrupt, mismanagement subsidized &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rewrite history &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/rewrite%20history  rewrite history not found, Merriam-Websters]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deceit]], mislead &lt;br /&gt;
|Commonly used term describing liberal deceit to hide, defraud others about factual history.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rogue states&lt;br /&gt;
|rogue nations&lt;br /&gt;
|nations defying international law, only rogue is listed in Merriman-Websters&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|runaway jury&lt;br /&gt;
|The term has existed for decades, but Merriam-Webster has not recognized it yet.&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Rule of Law&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[schlockumentary]]&lt;br /&gt;
|propaganda film&lt;br /&gt;
|documentary films based on falsehoods and half-truths&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|[[Second generation atheist|second-generation atheist]]&lt;br /&gt;
|cradle atheist&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|selective outrage&lt;br /&gt;
|partisan hypocrisy, bipolar&lt;br /&gt;
|to be against something to further a cause and reject, stay silent, ignore or discount something similar. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smear merchant&lt;br /&gt;
|serial slander&lt;br /&gt;
|to constantly hurl degrading or false accusations against others&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|strict constructionism&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|an important term for over 200 years to describe adherence to the text of the Constitution, Merriam-Webster still does not recognize it.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Conservative| Traditional Values]]&lt;br /&gt;
| principles of Conservatism&lt;br /&gt;
|much the same as family values but incorporating all aspects society; family, religion, self-sufficiency, the truth, hard work. Only listed in Merriam-Websters to describe what Nilihism is against. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|true emergency&lt;br /&gt;
|life support&lt;br /&gt;
|meaning a high probability of serious injury or death to an individual or property. Emergency has been watered down, e.g. to be locked out of one's car.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Unaffected by, or impervious to, the media&lt;br /&gt;
|mediaproof&lt;br /&gt;
|cf. bulletproof. ''Once John became aware of the extent of [[liberal deceit]], he set about mediaproofing his mind''.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New Liberal Terms ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New liberal words often have deceptive, or nonsensical, meanings.  Here are some new words created by liberals to combat [[conservatism]]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!New Term&lt;br /&gt;
!Origin date&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[agnosticism|agnostic]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1860&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who claims to not know whether [[God]] exists but still lives like an [[atheist]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[atheism|atheist]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1571&lt;br /&gt;
|useful and often deceptive alternative name for an anti-Christian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Big Bang theory|big bang]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|term invented by the leading [[British]] physicist Sir [[Fred Hoyle]] to ''mock'' this suggestion of how the universe was formed, but later accepted as a serious term rather than mockery;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Compare this migration with that of &amp;quot;politically correct,&amp;quot; which started out as a serious term but then adopted a sense of mockery&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; it's liberal because it trivializes the beauty and the [[faith]] of the moment&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bilingual education&lt;br /&gt;
|1972&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism describing a costly and hurtful program that hinders the learning of English by foreign-born children in American [[public school]]s, which hurts their future opportunities&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[carbon footprint]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1999&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/carbon%20footprint&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|this term indicates an individual human's effect on the environment by production of carbon dioxide &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|chairperson&lt;br /&gt;
|1971&lt;br /&gt;
|even Alice Sturgis, the leading parliamentarian of the 20th century, rejected this cumbersome form of political correctness.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|check-off&lt;br /&gt;
|1911&lt;br /&gt;
|automatic deduction of union dues by the employer from the employee's paycheck, so he has no choice&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[class warfare]]&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|first entered the political lexicon primarily as an attack by liberals against conservatives. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030115.html The art of &amp;quot;class warfare&amp;quot;], Ben Fritz, Spinsanity.org, January 15, 2003&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[communism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1840&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|compassionate-care clinics&lt;br /&gt;
|2008&lt;br /&gt;
|a term describe pot-shops that dispense medical marijuana &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/11/magazines/fortune/medical_marijuana_legalizing.fortune/?postversion=2009091116 How marijuana became legal, CNN, September 11, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|compassion fatigue&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|liberals, driven by materialistic self-interest, are likely to suffer from this.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[condescension]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1647&lt;br /&gt;
|treating another person as though they are inferior&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[creationism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1880&lt;br /&gt;
|like most &amp;quot;isms&amp;quot;, creationism is a derogatory term coined preferred most by opponents of it.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Dark Ages]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1730&lt;br /&gt;
|a term coined in the so-called [[enlightenment]] to disparage the period between the fall of the [[Roman Empire]] and c.1000, when the Christian faith, and its learning and culture, spread across Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Dead white males|dead white males]]&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|a disparaging term used of significant figures from previous generations by those who wish to undermine [[Cultural Literacy|cultural literacy]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|deconstruction&lt;br /&gt;
|1973&lt;br /&gt;
|a style of interpretation of texts that looks beyond the plain meaning of the text in order to infer or accuse the writers of social bias&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|diva&lt;br /&gt;
|1883&lt;br /&gt;
|modern use to describe female Hollywood/media personalities&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Détente|detente]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism referring to pacifist policy re. the Soviet Union&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|displaced foreign traveler &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/07/bureaucrats-now.html Bureaucrats Now Call Illegal Aliens &amp;quot;Displaced Foreign Travelers&amp;quot;, Moonbattery.com, July 21, 2010]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|2010&lt;br /&gt;
|another politically correct term for [[illegal alien]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|distributive justice&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|a term used to redefine socialist abridgment of rights as &amp;quot;just&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[enlightenment]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1669&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Environmentalist|environmentalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&lt;br /&gt;
|a mixture of [[pseudoscience]] and neo-[[paganism]] used to justify the imposition of [[socialist]]ic controls.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[exclusionary rule]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1964&lt;br /&gt;
|an invented rule that requires censoring and withholding from the jury certain incriminating evidence about a criminal defendant, simply based on how the evidence was obtained.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[family planning]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1939&lt;br /&gt;
|planning intended to determine the number and spacing of one's children through birth control &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/family%20planning Family Planning, Merriam-Webster]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|freethinker&lt;br /&gt;
|1692&lt;br /&gt;
|the euphemism &amp;quot;free&amp;quot; hides the hostility towards faith, which is not free&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|[[fundamentalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; From a series of pamphlets called &amp;quot;The Fundamentals&amp;quot; which outlined the movement.  Perjorative usage started when the liberal [[Harry Emerson Fosdick]] began using the term in a straw man attack against [[Conservative Christianity]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[feminism]]   &lt;br /&gt;
|1895   &lt;br /&gt;
|notionally, &amp;quot;the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes&amp;quot;; in reality, the attempt to destroy traditional family, societal and religious values by erasing or undermining natural gender differences.  &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[gay rights]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|the movement for civil rights for homosexuals&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|glass ceiling&lt;br /&gt;
|1984&lt;br /&gt;
|the notion that an invisible barrier prevents women and ethnic minorities from reaching high office; an excuse for [[feminist]]s and others to demand [[affirmative action]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[global warming]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|the baseless [[environmentalist]] mantra that the earth's temperature is rising, and that human intervention is the cause.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[goth]]&lt;br /&gt;
|?&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;a style of rock music, noted especially for somber or ethereal tones and lugubrious lyrics&amp;quot;, or someone who performs or listens to this style of music.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com, ''goth'' [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/goth]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Goths often &amp;quot;dress in black with heavy jewelry&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com, ''goth rock'' [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/goth%20rock]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The term is taken from the name of &amp;quot;a Germanic people who invaded the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com, ''goth'' [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/goth]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gun control&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism for restricting the right to keep and bear arms &lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|[[homophobia]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|used by Liberals to describe a failure to subscribe 100% to the [[homosexual agenda]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[humanism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1808 &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://newhumanist.org.uk/1740&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[imperialism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1851&lt;br /&gt;
|a clever term later used by liberals to interfere with Christian missionaries and stopping anti-Christian tyranny&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[isolationism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&lt;br /&gt;
|a pejorative term that is critical of American politicians putting America first in priorities&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Keynesianism&lt;br /&gt;
|1946&lt;br /&gt;
|advocacy of 'tax and spend' policies as elaborated by the economist [[John Maynard Keynes]]; a [[euphemism]] for back-door [[Socialism]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Living Constitution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|2000&lt;br /&gt;
|a continually evolving Constitution (first used by presidential candidate Al Gore, title of a 1936 book by Howard McBain)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|main squeeze&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|one's romantic partner, typically in an unmarried relationship&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|McCarthyism&lt;br /&gt;
|1950&lt;br /&gt;
|originally, investigations by Sen. Joe McCarthy of Communists working in sensitive USA government jobs. Later, it more broadly refers to holding radical leftists accountable for their beliefs and loyalties.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[metrosexual]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1994&lt;br /&gt;
|fashion and glamour man&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|moderate&lt;br /&gt;
|late 1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|the original term dates from the French Revolution, but its meaning today is a euphemism for someone who favors abortion and/or supports censorship of Christianity in some ways.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[moving the goalposts]]&lt;br /&gt;
|late 1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|a sports analogy designed to avoid answering a logical follow-up question; this is a favorite term of evolutionists to avoid addressing obvious deficiencies in their theory&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nationalize&lt;br /&gt;
|1800&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism for the government taking over ownership and control of a large company or entire industry, as in socialism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|natural selection&lt;br /&gt;
|1857&lt;br /&gt;
|a misleading and euphemistic term for the theory that genetic advantages and conflict dictate survival&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Nihilism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1817&lt;br /&gt;
|a rejection of the values system, independently anarchist from society norms.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[population control]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|the issue of population dates back to Confucius. Liberals promoted the term after the book The Population Bomb by Paul R. Ehrlich&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[pro-choice]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1975&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism for insisting on taxpayer-funded [[abortion]]; people who claim to be pro-choice typically oppose ''informed'' choice, which makes the &amp;quot;choice&amp;quot; meaningless&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[progressivism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1892&lt;br /&gt;
|the progressive movement was not entirely liberal; it was started by a Republican and shared some goals with conservatives, and still does&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[psychoanalysis]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1906&lt;br /&gt;
|contributed to de-spiritualization of human beings&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|public option&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|obfuscate rewording of government control &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[quote mining]]&lt;br /&gt;
|non-existent&lt;br /&gt;
|a term used by [[evolutionists]] to describe taking quotes out of context in order to damage the position of the quoted party.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|reproductive health&lt;br /&gt;
|1994 &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;defined by the United Nations (UN) in 1994 at the Cairo International Conference&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|abortion supporters jargon for rights/justice for pregnant women, no rights/justice for the child.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Sexual Discrimination|sexism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|That which is practiced by those who do not give total support to [[feminism]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|shovel-ready &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://skylineviews.typepad.com/skyline_views/2009/04/is-it-time-to-add-shovelready-to-the-dictionary.html Is it time to add shovel-ready to the dictionary? Skyline Views, April 24, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|2008&lt;br /&gt;
|jobs and people ready to work if funded&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|situation ethics&lt;br /&gt;
|1955&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism for denying fixed ethical standards&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stimulus packages&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|used by government(s) to be perceived as taking unprecedented measures to stimulate aggregate economic demand; during a crisis on economic growth and private jobs, liberal government entities are known to deceptively take advantage of its subject in the form of &amp;quot;stimulus packages,&amp;quot; as an opportunity to pursue policies that further social and environmental agendas.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/12/62/42555546.pdf For a stronger, cleaner, ''fairer'' world economy], ''Organisation For Economic Co-Operation and Development'' (OECD), 2010.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|strict liability&lt;br /&gt;
|1869&lt;br /&gt;
|court-imposed liability even when there is no evidence of any fault by the defendant&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sustainability&lt;br /&gt;
|1727&lt;br /&gt;
|[[environmentalism|environmentalist]] buzzword&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Swift-Boating&lt;br /&gt;
|2004&lt;br /&gt;
|allegations of unfair campaign tactics.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|transforming society&lt;br /&gt;
|2008&lt;br /&gt;
|Obama, Rahm and Axelrod use this term. It dates to [[Saul Alinsky]] and Chicago politics. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://marklevinshow.com/sectional.asp?id=32930# Mark Levin Show, July 7, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|transnationalist&lt;br /&gt;
|2006&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by Yale Law School Dean Harold Koh in a 2006 law review article:  &amp;quot;The transnationalists view domestic courts as having a critical role to play in domesticating international law into U.S. law ....&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Penn State Law Review (2006).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|undocumented immigrant&lt;br /&gt;
|2000&lt;br /&gt;
|a [[politically correct]] replacement for illegal alien.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|unfair&lt;br /&gt;
|1700&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|union shop&lt;br /&gt;
|1904&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Unitarian]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1687&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|will to power&lt;br /&gt;
|1907&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Nietzsche]]'s concept of the drive of a superman to perfect himself by exercising creative power; it didn't catch on&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|woman's rights&lt;br /&gt;
|1833&lt;br /&gt;
|women equal to men; the defining movement to justify aborting babies in the 20th century&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rate of Generation of Liberal Terms ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rate of generation of liberal terms is increasing, but not with the enduring value of the conservative terms and not with their geometric rate of increase.  A remarkably high percentage of new liberal terms originated in the 1960s, suggesting that new liberal terms arise in a sporadic manner heavily influenced by culture:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Century&lt;br /&gt;
!# New Liberal Terms&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1600s&lt;br /&gt;
|4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1700s&lt;br /&gt;
|2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1800s&lt;br /&gt;
|11&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|31 (9 in the 1960s)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2000s&lt;br /&gt;
|6&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Terms Difficult to Classify ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These new terms are difficult to classify:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Term&lt;br /&gt;
!Origin date&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[affirmative action|affirmative action]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1961&lt;br /&gt;
|first used in [http://www.thecre.com/fedlaw/legal6/eo10925.htm JFK's Executive Order 10925] in 1961 and subsequently promoted by [[LBJ]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[American exceptionalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1980&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;An estimate; it originated no later than 1983.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by sociologist Daniel Bell, its meaning today is unclear; it is used to urge exporting American-style elections to the rest of the world as urged especially by [[neoconservatives]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Americanism&lt;br /&gt;
|1781&lt;br /&gt;
|Originally, a phrase unique to American English, later, loyalty to America and its principles&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bipartisan&lt;br /&gt;
|1909&lt;br /&gt;
|emphasized by liberals when they are in the minority in power, but ignored by liberals when they are the majority in power&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|colonist&lt;br /&gt;
|1701&lt;br /&gt;
|settlers of a new country&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|compartmentalize&lt;br /&gt;
|1925&lt;br /&gt;
|compartmentalizing the Bible away from knowledge and education leads to ignorance and despair&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|eclectic&lt;br /&gt;
|1683&lt;br /&gt;
|taking the best from among different styles or ideas; compare [[best of the public]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|evangelism&lt;br /&gt;
|1620-30&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;isms&amp;quot; are usually pejorative, though this acquired a positive meaning over time, and perhaps from the outset&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|genetics&lt;br /&gt;
|1905&lt;br /&gt;
|perhaps this should be on the conservative list?&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|inane&lt;br /&gt;
|1662&lt;br /&gt;
|refers to comments, often made by liberals, that are utterly devoid of substance&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|junk legislation&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|used initially by liberals to complain about the lack of meaningful legislation&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|missionary&lt;br /&gt;
|1635-1645&lt;br /&gt;
|conservative?&lt;br /&gt;
|-  &lt;br /&gt;
|multitasking&lt;br /&gt;
|1966&lt;br /&gt;
|performing multiple tasks all at once&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|polar coordinates&lt;br /&gt;
|1694&lt;br /&gt;
|Newton may have used it earlier&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|republican&lt;br /&gt;
|1685&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|scrooge&lt;br /&gt;
|1843&lt;br /&gt;
|the main character in Charles Dickens' ''A Christmas Carol''; the story is based on materialism and is often used as a substitute for the Biblical account, but charity is a conservative value&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smoke and mirrors&lt;br /&gt;
|1982&lt;br /&gt;
|describes the use of deceit, particularly in politics; probably a conservative term, but will await more etymology about it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|soapbox&lt;br /&gt;
|1907&lt;br /&gt;
|now used pejoratively, but probably not initially when it was a way for the public to participate&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|states' rights&lt;br /&gt;
|1790&lt;br /&gt;
|liberals often invoke this too; Democrats were its biggest champions in the 1800s (in connection with slavery), and even today on issues like legalizing drugs and same-sex marriage&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|technocrat&lt;br /&gt;
|1932&lt;br /&gt;
|technical expert&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|telecommute&lt;br /&gt;
|1974&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The first use of this term was in the British magazine ''The Economist''.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|a combination of a Greek root (&amp;quot;tele&amp;quot;, which means &amp;quot;far off&amp;quot;) and a Latin root (&amp;quot;commutare&amp;quot;, which means &amp;quot;to exchange&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tomfoolery&lt;br /&gt;
|1812&lt;br /&gt;
|playful or foolish behavior&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|traditionalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1856&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;beliefs of those opposed to [[modernism]], [[liberalism]], or [[radicalism]]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[twilight zone]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|the realm of imagination that seems impossible but is difficult to disprove, and which challenges ordinary views of reality; also the terminator between night and day on a planetary body&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Downgraded Conservative Terms ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These conservative terms are less significant:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Term&lt;br /&gt;
!Origin date&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|byzantine&lt;br /&gt;
|1794&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The usage here -- in sense of complex governmental rules -- probably developed later.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|eleemosynary&lt;br /&gt;
|1616&lt;br /&gt;
|relating to charity&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[entropy]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1868&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[filibuster]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1851&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incandescent&lt;br /&gt;
|1794&lt;br /&gt;
|bright and radiant, conquering darkness, precursor to the invention of the incandescent lamp (light bulb)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|luddite&lt;br /&gt;
|1811&lt;br /&gt;
|one who opposes and even destroys technological advances&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|media&lt;br /&gt;
|1923&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[milquetoast]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1933&lt;br /&gt;
|timid and unassertive; easily persuaded or exploited&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|normalcy&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|related to the election of [[Warren G. Harding]] by the largest margin yet in history&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ne'er-do-well&lt;br /&gt;
|1736&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;an idle worthless person&amp;quot; - Merriam-Webster&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|reticent&lt;br /&gt;
|1834&lt;br /&gt;
|restrained in expression, presentation, or appearance&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|self-indulgence&lt;br /&gt;
|1753&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smart aleck&lt;br /&gt;
|1856&lt;br /&gt;
|an obnoxiously conceited and self-assertive person with pretensions to being superior to others. Etymology: Aleck, nickname for Alexander &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smart%20alec Smart Aleck Merriam-Websters]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sources ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ Merriam-Webster dictionary]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://dictionary.reference.com/ Dictionary.com]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== See also ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Essay:Conservapedia's Law]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Essay:Surprising Dates of Origin for Terms]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Linguistic Analysis of Candidates]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Conservative Bible Project]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Conservatism}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{Conservapedia}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Essays]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservative Bible]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured articles]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Essay:Best_New_Conservative_Words&amp;diff=800127</id>
		<title>Essay:Best New Conservative Words</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Essay:Best_New_Conservative_Words&amp;diff=800127"/>
		<updated>2010-08-02T12:25:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Conservative words and terms */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Tax-spend.jpg|thumb|480px|The &amp;quot;tax-and-spend&amp;quot; slogan stuck to Harry Hopkins like a well-fitted suit.]]Each year the English language develops about a thousand new words.  The [[King James Version]] of the [[Bible]] contains only about 8,000 different words,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8013859.stm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and many good words have developed since then.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Conservative]] terms are being generated at a faster rate, and with much higher quality, than [[liberal]] terms are.  This implies an inevitable conservative triumph over liberalism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Powerful, insightful new conservative terms have grown at a [[geometric progression|geometric rate]], roughly doubling every century.  For every insightful new conservative term originating in the 1600s, there are two new terms originating in the 1700s, four new terms in the 1800s, and eight new terms in the 1900s, for a pattern of &amp;quot;1-2-4-8&amp;quot;.  Implications of a geometric increase for new conservative terms include a more conservative future and a correlation between conservatism and truth.  The year 1612 is our starting point: the King James Version of the Bible had just been published in 1611, and [[William Shakespeare]] had written virtually all of his plays.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Century&lt;br /&gt;
!# New Conservative Terms&lt;br /&gt;
!Most Prolific Periods&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1600s&lt;br /&gt;
|20&lt;br /&gt;
|period following publication of [[KJV]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1700s&lt;br /&gt;
|40&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Great Awakening|Great Awaken.]], [[American Revolution|Am. Revol.]], [[Constitutional Convention|Const. Conv.]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1800s&lt;br /&gt;
|81&lt;br /&gt;
|1820s - political transition and conflict&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|155&lt;br /&gt;
|1940s - [[World War II|WWII]] and postwar transition&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2000s&lt;br /&gt;
|14 (preliminary)&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Conservative words and terms==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{clear}}&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!New Term&lt;br /&gt;
!Origin date&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[accountability]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1794&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[action-at-a-distance]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1693&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Newton]]'s acceptance of this concept -- which became fundamental to [[electrostatics]] and [[quantum mechanics]] and has a basis in Christianity&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''See, e.g.'', [[Jesus]]'s cure of the centurion's slave.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; -- was central to the development of his theory of gravity.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/newton-philosophy/#ActDis&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Einstein criticized this concept as &amp;quot;spooky&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|activism&lt;br /&gt;
|1915&lt;br /&gt;
|this differentiates conservatives from inactive people; this term might have originated in connection with [[Prohibition]] and efforts to pass the [[Eighteenth Amendment]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|aerobics&lt;br /&gt;
|1967&lt;br /&gt;
|invented by the Christian Dr. Kenneth H. Cooper&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.christianadvice.net/famous_christians.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; to describe his self-help, revolutionary program to improve health, he entitled his ground-breaking book in 1968 ''Aerobics''.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|alarmism&lt;br /&gt;
|1867&lt;br /&gt;
|needless warnings, as in the politically motivated claims of [[global warming]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|alcoholism&lt;br /&gt;
|1860&lt;br /&gt;
|excessive or addictive drinking of alcohol&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|algorithm&lt;br /&gt;
|1894&lt;br /&gt;
|an efficient and consistent step-by-step methodology for achieving a goal, the opposite of [[liberal style]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|altruism&lt;br /&gt;
|1853&lt;br /&gt;
|selfless assistance of others; this also occurs in the animal kingdom, and is a [[counterexample to evolution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ambulance chaser&lt;br /&gt;
|1896&lt;br /&gt;
|a lawyer who searches for victims to persuade them to sue for his profit&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[American dream]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1911&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;1911 is the date given by the &amp;quot;OED&amp;quot;, which refers to the Oxford English Dictionary. The Merriam-Webster dictionary gives a date of 1931.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the idea that one’s work should be rewarding.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|American Way&lt;br /&gt;
|1930s&lt;br /&gt;
|later conservative entrepreneurs used this to coin a new name for what became a highly successful and uniquely American business model: &amp;quot;Amway&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[anti-Christian]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|thirty-three million sites turn up in a Google search, yet the Merriam-Webster dictionary doesn't recognize this important term&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|anticompetitive&lt;br /&gt;
|1952&lt;br /&gt;
|interfering with open competition and the enormous benefits that flow from it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|antilife&lt;br /&gt;
|1929&lt;br /&gt;
|critical term describing a tendency to oppose life and lifesaving care&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|apple pie&lt;br /&gt;
|1780&lt;br /&gt;
|honesty, simplicity, wholesomeness. Relating to, or characterized by traditionally American values. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apple%20pie Merriam-webster- Apple pie]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|assimilate&lt;br /&gt;
|1880s&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;estimate only; this originated sometime in the late 1880s.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the desired absorption of immigrant groups into the culture and mores of the resident population&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|attention span&lt;br /&gt;
|1934&lt;br /&gt;
|correlated with intelligence, the attention span is how long someone can concentrate on something.  It is rapidly shortening; the Lincoln-Douglas debates 150 years ago lasted for hours, but none do today.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.help4teachers.com/ras.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The average length of sentences in speech is another indication of attention span, and it has been shortening significantly.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|baby boom&lt;br /&gt;
|1941&lt;br /&gt;
|an increase in birthrate, which is a good thing; note that the baby boom actually started before World War II, contrary to what textbooks teach. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[bailout]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1951&lt;br /&gt;
|wasting taxpayer money to rescue, temporarily, a failing company&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bedrock&lt;br /&gt;
|1840-1850&lt;br /&gt;
|an American term for unbroken solid rock underneath fragments or soil, which adopted the figurative meaning of strong values:  &amp;quot;bedrock principles&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bedrock&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|beltway mentality&lt;br /&gt;
|1986&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by [[Paul Weyrich]] though possibly first used by then-Governor [[John Sununu]] (&amp;quot;captives of yourselves&amp;quot;), it refers to a governing style that sees only as far as the highway that surrounds its capital, especially the one around D.C.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|biased&lt;br /&gt;
|1649&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Big Brother&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|government constantly watching its citizens; [[George Orwell]] first coined this term in his classic, ''[[1984]]''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Blame America Crowd&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Or &amp;quot;Blame-America-First Crowd&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|1984&lt;br /&gt;
|Michael Barone quoted [[Jeane Kirkpatrick]] as saying that the &amp;quot;San Francisco Democrats&amp;quot; (site of the Democratic National Convention in 1984) &amp;quot;always blame America first.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.creators.com/opinion/michael-barone/the-blame-america-first-crowd.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|blank check&lt;br /&gt;
|1884&lt;br /&gt;
|irresponsibly giving someone unlimited spending authority or power, as in &amp;quot;a Con Con would be a blank check to destroy the nation&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Blue Dog Democrat]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1995&lt;br /&gt;
|a person who adheres to conservative principles within the Democratic party, once called a Boll Weevil; as of 2009 there are 45-50 Blue Dog Democrats in the [[House of Representatives]], which is enough to form a majority with [[Republicans]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|boondoggle&lt;br /&gt;
|1935&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;popularized during the [[New Deal]] as a contemptuous word for make-work projects for the unemployed.&amp;quot; &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=boondoggle&amp;amp;searchmode=none&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The term gained popularity in [[Canada]] following a corruption scandal tied to the [[Liberal]] government in 2000.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bootstrap&lt;br /&gt;
|1913&lt;br /&gt;
|unaided effort, personal merit, hard work&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bork&lt;br /&gt;
|1988&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by William Safire to refer to how Democrats savage a conservative nominee, such as their defeat of Supreme Court nominee [[Robert H. Bork]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|born-again&lt;br /&gt;
|1961&lt;br /&gt;
|it takes an open mind and heart&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|brainstorm&lt;br /&gt;
|1894&lt;br /&gt;
|a burst of productive thought&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|brainwashing&lt;br /&gt;
|1950&lt;br /&gt;
|derived from the Chinese term &amp;quot;xǐnǎo&amp;quot; soon after the [[communist]] takeover of China, &amp;quot;brainwashing&amp;quot; means forced abandonment of [[faith]] in favor of regimented [[atheism]]. In a more general sense, it refers to the manipulation and control of the human mind through torture and propaganda techniques.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|brinkmanship&lt;br /&gt;
|1956&lt;br /&gt;
|the art of displaying a willingness to use military force in order to obtain a just resolution to a conflict between nations&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[bureaucracy]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1818&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|busywork&lt;br /&gt;
|1910&lt;br /&gt;
|meaningless activity under the pretense of accomplishing something&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|can-do&lt;br /&gt;
|1903 &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; according to the Oxford English Dictionary. [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/can-do Miram-webster] gives the date of 1945 &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|Phrase coined in a short story by [[Rudyard Kipling]] that has come to refer to an attitude that espouses individual ability and responsibility and not reliance on [[entitlements]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[capitalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1850-1855&lt;br /&gt;
|creating jobs and wealth based on a private invention, ownership and investments rather than state-controlled resources&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[carpetbagger]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1868&lt;br /&gt;
|a politician who moves to a new area to be elected to a government position, as in [[Hillary Clinton]] moving to [[New York]] to become a U.S. Senator&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|catharsis&lt;br /&gt;
|1775&lt;br /&gt;
|facilitating forgiveness and spiritual renewal by expression, as in writing or teaching or confession&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|caucus&lt;br /&gt;
|1763&lt;br /&gt;
|citizens or representatives gathering to meet and reach political decisions as a group while harnessing aspects of the [[best of the public]]; a favorite term of President John Adams, who wrote the Massachusetts Constitution and played a role in developing the [[Declaration of Independence]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|chaperone&lt;br /&gt;
|1720&lt;br /&gt;
|care and well-being of youths overseen by adults&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|citizen's arrest&lt;br /&gt;
|1941&lt;br /&gt;
|private enforcement of the law without the need of a taxpayer-funded police officer&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|claptrap&lt;br /&gt;
|1799&lt;br /&gt;
|pretentious, verbose, and often liberal nonsense; example usage: &amp;quot;the professor wasted the rest of the class on his liberal claptrap&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|closed shop&lt;br /&gt;
|1904&lt;br /&gt;
|a business that requires membership in a union as a condition of working there; 22 conservative states prohibit this&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Coase theorem|Coasean]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|an efficient result or bargain based on market forces without the distortions caused by [[transaction costs]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Columbian&lt;br /&gt;
|1757&lt;br /&gt;
|relating to Christopher Columbus ''or the United States''	&lt;br /&gt;
|-	&lt;br /&gt;
|Cold War&lt;br /&gt;
|1947&lt;br /&gt;
|recognition that communist nations were at war with American freedom even in the absence of actual military conflict&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[comparative advantage]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1815&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www-personal.umich.edu/~alandear/glossary/orig.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|developed by the classical economist [[David Ricardo]], this reflects the insight that each country should &amp;quot;do what it does best&amp;quot; in deciding which goods to produce&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|competitive&lt;br /&gt;
|1829&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|conciseness&lt;br /&gt;
|1650-60s&lt;br /&gt;
|quality of being concise&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Con Con&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by [[Phyllis Schlafly]] to highlight the deception and risks inherent in proposed national constitutional conventions&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|conservation of charge&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|overall charge does not change in an isolated system; it is neither created nor destroyed; the concept was first suggested by [[Benjamin Franklin]] but the date of origin for this term is surprisingly recent&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[conservative]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1831&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[conservative field]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1870s?&lt;br /&gt;
|a type of physical force over a region such that items moving throughout the region can store energy ''without loss'', as in the planetary system and electrical products&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The mathematical definition of a conservative field -- which arises in [[multivariable calculus]] -- is that a scalar potential exists for the function and, alternatively, it is [[irrotational]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|constant&lt;br /&gt;
|1832&lt;br /&gt;
|(noun) something unchanging in value&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|constitutionality&lt;br /&gt;
|1787&lt;br /&gt;
|its date of origin is the year of the [[Constitutional Convention]] that proposed the [[U.S. Constitution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|copacetic&lt;br /&gt;
|1890s&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster officially lists its date of origin as 1919 and its source as unknown, but that is well after when Robinson says he developed it.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|Bill “Bojangles” Robinson, tap dancer extraordinaire, claimed the invention of this word; it was first popularized by African Americans&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|copyright&lt;br /&gt;
|1735&lt;br /&gt;
|extending private property to protect expressive works&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|correlate&lt;br /&gt;
|1742&lt;br /&gt;
|(verb) to show that one thing relates to another, such as [[atheism]] or [[homosexuality]] and selfishness or lack of charity; [[liberal]]s falsely rely on anecdotes to deny the general relationship&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[countability (Mathematics)|countability]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1874&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Georg Cantor]], loathed by the leading contemporary [[mathematicians]], developed this in proving that the real numbers are ''uncountable''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|counterexample&lt;br /&gt;
|1957&lt;br /&gt;
|an example that is contrary to the proposition. A common point in logical, reasoned debate.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crackpot&lt;br /&gt;
|1884&lt;br /&gt;
|crazy talk, lunacy, a person on the fringe of reality&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[creation science]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&lt;br /&gt;
|a term coined by the anti-[[evolution|evolutionist]] [[Henry Morris]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/28/AR2006022801716.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cross-examination&lt;br /&gt;
|1824&lt;br /&gt;
|the most effective tool against [[liberal]] [[deceit]], better than even the requirement of an oath&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|crystal clear&lt;br /&gt;
|1815&lt;br /&gt;
|liberals are the opposite&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[culture war]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1991&lt;br /&gt;
|widespread use after the book ''Culture Wars: The Struggle to Define America'' by James Davison Hunter&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cyberbullying&lt;br /&gt;
|2000s&lt;br /&gt;
|a type of obnoxious and hurtful liberal behavior on the internet&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deadweight loss]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1930s&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Confirmation of the first use is desired.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the loss in overall wealth and efficiency imposed by monopolies and taxation, due to the loss in extra value that someone would have received beyond what he would have paid for a good at a free market price&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|death tax&lt;br /&gt;
|1989&lt;br /&gt;
|interestingly, the term was coined by Canadians opposed to the high estate tax on their assets held in the United States; Frank Luntz is credited with later popularizing this term in the United States.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''See'' Dr. Frank Luntz, ''Words That Work: It's Not What You Say, It's What People Hear''&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|decentralization&lt;br /&gt;
|1846&lt;br /&gt;
|the dispersion of power, as in a shift from national to local control&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|decrypt&lt;br /&gt;
|1935&lt;br /&gt;
|military code-breaking, which played an instrumental role in World War II in deciphering enemy codes that many felt were unbreakable; illustrates the &amp;quot;can do&amp;quot; approach of conservatism in a patriotic way&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[defeatism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1918&lt;br /&gt;
|a negative attitude that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|deflation&lt;br /&gt;
|1891&lt;br /&gt;
|an increase in the value of savings&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|defund&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|refers especially to termination of government funding of a wasteful or hurtful program&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|deliberative assembly&lt;br /&gt;
|1774&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''Introduction to Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised'' (19th Ed. 2000), xxv.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|used by Edmund Burke in describing the British parliament during a speech to voters in Bristol; he meant a body of persons meeting to discuss and decide common action under parliamentary law&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|demagogue&lt;br /&gt;
|1648&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deregulation]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1963&lt;br /&gt;
|Reagan won in 1980 by campaigning on this.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|design by committee&lt;br /&gt;
|before 1958&lt;br /&gt;
|pejorative term directed against collective production by a group &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|despotism&lt;br /&gt;
|1727&lt;br /&gt;
|a ruler with unlimited powers&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deterrence]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1861&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|devalue&lt;br /&gt;
|1918&lt;br /&gt;
|describing an unwelcome attitude or act, as in &amp;quot;devaluing human life&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|devotee&lt;br /&gt;
|1645&lt;br /&gt;
|ardent follower, supporter, or loyalty to. 56 years separates devotee and devoted&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|disinformation&lt;br /&gt;
|1950s&lt;br /&gt;
|false information spread (and sometimes manufactured) by groups with a strong political agenda&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|division of labor&lt;br /&gt;
|1776&lt;br /&gt;
|increasing productivity through specialization of labor, as in a husband working in manufacturing while his wife cares for children&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|domino effect&lt;br /&gt;
|1966&lt;br /&gt;
|how the fall of one nation to communism can result in its harmful spread to neighboring nations&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|double standard&lt;br /&gt;
|1894&lt;br /&gt;
|applying harsher criticism against one group, such as churchgoers or conservatives, than against another group, such as atheists or liberals; recognition of a double standard by the [[Prodigal Son]] led him to repent and convert&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|doublethink&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|a term first coined by [[George Orwell]] in his dystopian novel ''[[1984]]''; it means simultaneously holding contradictory beliefs, which is a characteristic of [[status worship]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|doubting Thomas&lt;br /&gt;
|1883&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who believes only what he can see and touch, and doubts all else&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|dumb down&lt;br /&gt;
|1933&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Eagle Scout&lt;br /&gt;
|1913&lt;br /&gt;
|the highest rank in the [[Boy Scouts]], the term also means &amp;quot;a straight-arrow and self-reliant man.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (1994).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|editorialize&lt;br /&gt;
|1856&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;to introduce opinion into the reporting of facts&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster (1994).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[efficiency]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1633&lt;br /&gt;
|ultimately from the Latin ''efficientem'', meaning ''&amp;quot;working out, or accomplishing&amp;quot;''&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=efficient Online Etymological Dictionary]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|egotism&lt;br /&gt;
|1714&lt;br /&gt;
|the root of atheism, as explained by Paul in Romans 1:21-22; the root of depression and anxiety also&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[elementary proof]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1865&lt;br /&gt;
|a mathematical proof based on the minimum assumptions associated with real analysis; term probably does not predate [[complex analysis]] and its first use may have been the English mathematician James Joseph Sylvester's paper, &amp;quot;On an elementary proof and generalisation of Sir Isaac Newton's hitherto undenionstrated rule for the discovery of imaginary roots.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.archive.org/stream/circular129johnuoft/circular129johnuoft_djvu.txt&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[elitism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1950&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[entitlement]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1944&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|entrepreneur&lt;br /&gt;
|1852&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[ethnic voting]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|widely recognized and even advocated by some,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/1/5/2/3/4/p152345_index.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; yet the dictionary doesn't yet recognize it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Eurosceptic&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who opposes joining the super-socialist [[European Union]]; some prefer the term &amp;quot;Eurorealist&amp;quot; to express this opposition, and sometimes &amp;quot;Eurosceptic&amp;quot; is used to criticize opponents of the EU&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|exceptional&lt;br /&gt;
|1787&lt;br /&gt;
|same year of origin as the [[U.S. Constitution]]!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|exculpatory&lt;br /&gt;
|1781&lt;br /&gt;
|often used in the phrase &amp;quot;exculpatory evidence,&amp;quot; it took nearly 50 years to develop this term after origination of the legal term suggesting guilt: &amp;quot;incriminate&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|faith healing&lt;br /&gt;
|1885&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[falsifiability]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1934&lt;br /&gt;
|first emphasized by Karl Popper in 1934, this helps define science:  if a proposition is false, then it can be shown to be false.  If not, then the proposition is not scientific.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[family values]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1916&lt;br /&gt;
|widespread use after a speech by Vice President [[Dan Quayle]], 1992 &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|father figure&lt;br /&gt;
|1934&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who fulfills the essential role of a father&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[federalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1789&lt;br /&gt;
|the unique system of dual sovereigns, state and federal (national), established by the [[U.S. Constitution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|feedback&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|an all-important element of accountability and improvement, and a key consideration in good engineering design&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[fellow traveller]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1925&lt;br /&gt;
|may have existed earlier, but popularized in 1924 by Leon Trotsky. Describes a sympathizer of a cause but who does not formally belong to the cause, such as a [[communist]] sympathizer who is not part of the communist party. The term was invented by the communists in its original, non-negative sense, but the conservatives were the first to use it as a pejorative term. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Flip flop (politics)|flip-flop]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1976&lt;br /&gt;
|''verb'', meaning to change political position, typically due to [[liberal]] pressure.  First used by the Republican S.I. Hayakawa campaign to describe California Democratic incumbent U.S. Senator John Tunney, whom Hayakawa defeated in an upset.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|force-feed&lt;br /&gt;
|1901&lt;br /&gt;
|what liberals do to students in [[public schools]] today in training them to be [[atheist]]ic socialists&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|forward-looking&lt;br /&gt;
|1800&lt;br /&gt;
|planning for the future rather than dwelling on the past&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Founding Fathers&lt;br /&gt;
|1914&lt;br /&gt;
|the several dozen [[Christian]] men &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html Religious Affiliation of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America, Adherents.com]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; who helped draft the formative documents of the United States&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[free enterprise]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1820&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|free market&lt;br /&gt;
|1907&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|free world&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|areas of the world free of communism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|galvanize&lt;br /&gt;
|1802&lt;br /&gt;
|as in, &amp;quot;the liberal proposals ''galvanized'' the grassroots in opposition&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gang up&lt;br /&gt;
|1925&lt;br /&gt;
|group pressure&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gateway drug&lt;br /&gt;
|1982&lt;br /&gt;
|abuse of alcohol/marijuana eventually leads to harder drugs cocaine/heroin&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gerrymandering&lt;br /&gt;
|1812&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by a newspaper editor to criticize the manipulation of the lines of a new district into a salamander shape&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.allbusiness.com/information/publishing-industries/251259-1.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; that favored election of a liberal politician&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gimmick&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&lt;br /&gt;
|originally meant a deceptive mechanical device for controlling a [[gambling]] machine, and then its meaning expanded to include all trickery to attract attention&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|globalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1997&lt;br /&gt;
|MW states it was first used in 1943&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/globalism&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and the OED gives a date of 1965 for the exact term 'globalism'&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/entry/50095613/50095613se2?single=1&amp;amp;query_type=word&amp;amp;queryword=globalism&amp;amp;first=1&amp;amp;max_to_show=10&amp;amp;hilite=50095613se2&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; the term &amp;quot;globalization&amp;quot; was first used in the mid-1980s in a different, complimentary sense.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|godsend&lt;br /&gt;
|1820&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|go-getter&lt;br /&gt;
|1921&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gold standard&lt;br /&gt;
|1831&lt;br /&gt;
|the highest standard; in currency, when money could be exchanged for a fixed amount of gold&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Good Samaritan&lt;br /&gt;
|1640&lt;br /&gt;
|how genuine charity is the best approach&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|goon&lt;br /&gt;
|1926&lt;br /&gt;
|a dim-witted thug, espec. one who intimidates on behalf of a union&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[grade inflation]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1975&lt;br /&gt;
|the tendency by Liberal educationalists and public schools to increase marks, irrespective of merit or actual achievement.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[grassroots]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1901&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Great Awakening&lt;br /&gt;
|1730-1740&lt;br /&gt;
|Christian spiritualism recurs periodically.  See [[Essay:The Coming Fifth Great Awakening in America]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Gresham's law&lt;br /&gt;
|1858&lt;br /&gt;
|the tendency in a free market for bad money (which loses its value) to drive out (be used more often in transactions) than good money (which retains its value), because people want to horde the good money while getting rid of the bad money; a similar effect can be seen when profanity drives out intelligent discussion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|groupthink&lt;br /&gt;
|1952&lt;br /&gt;
|a style of thought consisting of conformity to a manufactured consensus and self-deception; coined by William H. Whyte in 1952.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hallmark&lt;br /&gt;
|1721&lt;br /&gt;
|purity, authentic, official seal, distinguishing feature&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hardworking&lt;br /&gt;
|1774&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|harmless error&lt;br /&gt;
|1861&lt;br /&gt;
|an insignificant violation of a duty or procedural rule; first used in ''Western Ins. Co. v. The Goody Friends'', 29 F. Cas. 764 (S.D. Ohio 1861) (referring to a duty)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hatchet job&lt;br /&gt;
|1944&lt;br /&gt;
|still looking for the context of its first use; today it means an article, typically by a liberal, that misleadingly smears someone, typically a conservative&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hawthorne effect&lt;br /&gt;
|1962&lt;br /&gt;
|the increase in achievement resulting merely from being observed; this was demonstrated by experiment at the Hawthorne Works of Western Electric in Cicero, Illinois&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|heckler's veto&lt;br /&gt;
|1965&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by University of Chicago Law Professor Harvey Kalven, Jr., a strong supporter of free speech in politics, this term has been used in [[Supreme Court]] decisions by Justices [[Sam Alito]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''See'' ''Pleasant Grove City v. Summum'', 129 S. Ct. 1125 (2009); ''see also'' ''Child Evangelism Fellowship of N.J., Inc. v. Stafford Twp. Sch. Dist.'', 386 F.3d 514 (3rd Cir. 2004).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Antonin Scalia]], and [[Clarence Thomas]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''Good News Club v. Milford Cent. Sch.'', 533 U.S. 98 (2001)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hobson's choice&lt;br /&gt;
|1649&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;this term has the entertaining history of originating with an English liveryman who required customers to &amp;quot;choose&amp;quot; the horse closest to the door.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|an ostensible choice that disguises a lack of freedom, because each alternative is completely unacceptable.  This term is invoked to criticize an illusory freedom of choice.  This term has been used in 48 cases by Supreme Court Justices, more often by conservatives than by liberals.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|honor system&lt;br /&gt;
|1903&lt;br /&gt;
|an approach to discipline that emphasizes and encourages trust, honesty and personal responsibility rather than constant supervision&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[homeschool]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1980&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;the OED assigns a date of origin of 1850 to &amp;quot;homeschool&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[homosexual agenda]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1989&lt;br /&gt;
|used to promote the agenda in the book ''After the Ball'', but then used to criticize the movement by Justice [[Antonin Scalia]] in his dissent in''Lawrence v. Texas'' (2003)''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|human rights&lt;br /&gt;
|1766&lt;br /&gt;
|rights of all peoples, such as to &amp;quot;life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness&amp;quot; as set forth in the [[Declaration of Independence]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hypothesis&lt;br /&gt;
|1656&lt;br /&gt;
|a suggestion, typically scientific in nature, which must be tested and proven before asserted as truth&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hysteria&lt;br /&gt;
|1801&lt;br /&gt;
|From the Latin ''hystericus'', from Greek ''hystera '' meaning ''&amp;quot;womb&amp;quot;''&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hysteria Meriam Webster Dictionary]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; (an old notion that hysteria was caused by the [[womb]]).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|identity politics&lt;br /&gt;
|1988&lt;br /&gt;
|exploiting politics for racial, ethnic, gender equality.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|illiteracy&lt;br /&gt;
|1660&lt;br /&gt;
|liberals seek to produce illiterate voters who lack independence, and many graduates of the [[public schools]] are illiterate today&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incidental inequality&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|inequalities that result as side effects of an objectively just system &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incoherent&lt;br /&gt;
|1626&lt;br /&gt;
|the term often applies to liberal [[double standard]]s&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incompleteness&lt;br /&gt;
|1931&lt;br /&gt;
|a system of logic or mathematics that includes propositions that are impossible to prove or disprove; term coined as a result of [[Kurt Godel]]'s work in 1931&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incrementalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1966&lt;br /&gt;
|imposing bad political or social change slowly&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|independence&lt;br /&gt;
|1640&lt;br /&gt;
|free will&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|individualism&lt;br /&gt;
|1827&lt;br /&gt;
|values, rights and duties arise from the individual&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|inflationary&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|policies causing inflation of the monetary supply&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|informed consent&lt;br /&gt;
|1967&lt;br /&gt;
|consent to surgery is meaningful only if informed, a requirement that should apply to abortion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|initiative&lt;br /&gt;
|1793&lt;br /&gt;
|self-starting first step toward improvement&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|insightful&lt;br /&gt;
|1907&lt;br /&gt;
|what conservatism is about: gaining insights into the truth, and bettering individuals and society with them&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|intangible&lt;br /&gt;
|1914&lt;br /&gt;
|something valuable that cannot be seen or touched, such as goodwill&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|intellectual property&lt;br /&gt;
|1845&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;we [should] protect intellectual property, the labors of the mind, productions and interests as much a man's own, and as much the fruit of his honest industry, as the wheat he cultivates, or the flocks he rears.&amp;quot;  ''Davoll v. Brown'', 7 F. Cas. 197 (Cir. Ct. Mass. 1845) (Woodbury, federal judge).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|interventionism&lt;br /&gt;
|1923&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;governmental interference in economic affairs at home or in political affairs of another country&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster (1994).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|invisible hand&lt;br /&gt;
|1776&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by Adam Smith in the ''Wealth of Nations'' and widely used today.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[invisible hand of marriage]]&lt;br /&gt;
|2008&lt;br /&gt;
|discovered on Conservapedia, it is the unseen force of productivity that results from marriage (only between a man and woman).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Iron curtain&lt;br /&gt;
|1945&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by Winston Churchill in a speech in Missouri just after World War II, to describe the communist's figurative wall against freedom&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[irreducible complexity]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1996&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by [[Michael Behe]] as a structure or system that could not possibly have evolved, because removing any part makes it nonfunctional, thereby showing that [[God]] must have created it whole into biology; if the [[Nobel Prize]] were not dominated by [[atheism]], Behe could win one for this insight.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ivory tower&lt;br /&gt;
|1910&lt;br /&gt;
|a description of the pampered culture of liberal [[professor values|professors]], and how far out of touch with the truth it is&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|John Hancock&lt;br /&gt;
|1903&lt;br /&gt;
|a personal signature, especially in a bold style that stands up for principles as John Hancock did with his signing the Declaration of Independence&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[judicial activism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1947&lt;br /&gt;
|first coined in an article in ''Fortune'' magazine by Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/278089&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and repeatedly used in U.S. Supreme Court opinions since 1967,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''United States v. Wade'', &lt;br /&gt;
388 U.S. 218 (1967).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; yet as of 2009 [[Merriam-Webster]] dictionary still fails to recognize this widely used term.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|judicial prejudice&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|the bias of a judge in favor of a political correct identity group intended to rig outcome equality in favor of that group based on subjective bias rather than objective justice.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|judicial restraint&lt;br /&gt;
|1942&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;Assuming that this court has power to act, it does not necessarily follow that it should act. ... In a number of situations, and in a number of cases, it has been held that courts should voluntarily refrain from using or asserting power. Where the use or assertion of power might be destructive of a well defined purpose of law or of a declared public policy such voluntarily imposed '''judicial restraint''' may be commendable.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Osage Tribe of Indians v. Ickes, 45 F. Supp. 179, 184-85 (D.D.C. 1942) (emphasis added).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|judicial supremacist&lt;br /&gt;
|2004&lt;br /&gt;
|one who advocates that the courts should be supreme over the other branches of government for certain legal issues; first coined in a book by [[Phyllis Schlafly]]; first used by the judiciary by the Michigan Supreme Court in ''Paige v. City of Sterling Heights'', 476 Mich. 495 (2006).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;A similar yet different concept, &amp;quot;judicial supremacy,&amp;quot; was coined by [[conservative]] Supreme Court Justice [[Robert H. Jackson]] as the title of his book,'' The Struggle for Judicial Supremacy: A Study of a Crisis in American Political Power'' (New York: Knopf, 1941).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[judicial taking]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1982&lt;br /&gt;
|the deprivation of private property due to a court decision; this concept was introduced by conservative Justice [[Potter Stewart]] in 1967, and the term was used for the first time independently by the Michigan and Hawaii Supreme Courts in the same month (!) in December 1982, and then used often in law review articles and Circuit Court decisions in the 2000s, and then four Justices of the [[U.S. Supreme Court]] endorsed the principle in a decision in 2010, with two others accepting the possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[junk science]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1962&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://rated.com/dir/Society/Issues/Environment/Opposing_Views/Junk_Science&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the corruption of the scientific method to advance other, often political, goals (such as [[Global Warming]])&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|jury nullification&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|the power of a jury to overrule the law and acquit an ostensibly guilty defendant; the power was established in the colonies in 1735 in the trial of [[John Peter Zenger]], but this term was first used in state court by Pfeuffer v. Haas, 55 S.W.2d 111 (Tex. Civ. App. 1932) and in federal court by ''Skidmore v. Baltimore &amp;amp; O. R. Co.'', 167 F.2d 54 (2nd Cir. 1948)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kiss of death&lt;br /&gt;
|1943&lt;br /&gt;
|from Judas's betrayal of Jesus with a kiss, Mark 14:44-4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|kowtow&lt;br /&gt;
|1826&lt;br /&gt;
|obsequious, unthinking obedience to someone or something, used especially in the context of dictatorships and liberal belief systems&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Kremlinology&lt;br /&gt;
|1958&lt;br /&gt;
|the study of the otherwise indecipherable behavior of the government of the [[communist]] [[Soviet Union]]. Refers to the Kremlin, the traditional seat of Russian government (Soviet or not). &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|labor camp&lt;br /&gt;
|1900&lt;br /&gt;
|forced work prison&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|laissez-faire&lt;br /&gt;
|1825&lt;br /&gt;
|opposing governmental interference in economic affairs beyond what is minimally necessary&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|lame duck&lt;br /&gt;
|1761&lt;br /&gt;
|one falling being in achievement, especially a public official whose power is limited because his term in office is set to expire without possibility of reelection.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|lamestream media&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by Bernie Goldberg to describe the clueless [[Mainstream media]] that repeat superficial, discredited liberal claptrap&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|landslide&lt;br /&gt;
|1838&lt;br /&gt;
|In the political sense, an overwhelming election victory. A clear, democratic expression of popular will.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|leadership&lt;br /&gt;
|1821&lt;br /&gt;
|an ability and willingness to lead, often by example&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|leftism&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|principles and doctrine of leftists&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|leverage&lt;br /&gt;
|1830&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|life vest&lt;br /&gt;
|1939&lt;br /&gt;
|a pro-life invention&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|local&lt;br /&gt;
|1824&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This date refers to its first usage as a ''noun'', which is an estimate of its adoption as a concept.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|common usage: &amp;quot;all politics is local&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|locomotive&lt;br /&gt;
|1829&lt;br /&gt;
|a great engine of economic growth during the [[Industrial Revolution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|lone wolf&lt;br /&gt;
|1909&lt;br /&gt;
|a person who prefers to work, act, or live alone. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lone%20wolf Lone wolf, Merriam-Webster]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; synonymous with self-sufficiency&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|loose cannon&lt;br /&gt;
|1973&lt;br /&gt;
|an undisciplined person or program that dangerously lacks forethought; used in mid-November 1976 to describe $11 billion in unspent appropriations by the Ford Administration:  &amp;quot;'That money,' says Arnold Packer, a senior Senate Budget Committee economist who is helping Carter draw up his shadow budget, 'is like a loose cannon rolling around the deck' because a sudden reappearance of the funds could be inflationary.&amp;quot; (''BusinessWeek'')&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|lunatic fringe&lt;br /&gt;
|1913&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by U.S. President [[Theodore Roosevelt]] to describe members of eccentric, radical or extremist groups&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=lunatic&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|machismo&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|a word never used favorably by feminists!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|man-hater&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This was during the epic struggle -- and defeat -- of the so-called [[Equal Rights Amendment]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|William Safire wrote in the ''New York Times'' in 1983, &amp;quot;Misandry, from the Greek misandros for 'hating men,' is in the 1961 Merriam-Webster New International Dictionary, and the Oxford Dictionary Supplement traces it to 1946.  The word is pronounced as 'Ms. Andry,' but I wonder why we need the Greek word for it. What's wrong with good, old-fashioned man-hater?&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Sunday, Oct. 30, 1983, Section 6, Page 12, Column 3.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|make-work&lt;br /&gt;
|1923&lt;br /&gt;
|inefficient or useless activity that has the false appearance of being productive; a favorite endeavor of liberals&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|manifest destiny&lt;br /&gt;
|1845&lt;br /&gt;
|Providential design over future events, which originated in the context of expanding the United States to the Pacific Ocean&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|materialism&lt;br /&gt;
|1748&lt;br /&gt;
|the view of life that physical matter is all that exists; as an &amp;quot;ism&amp;quot;, the term criticizes such view&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|melting pot&lt;br /&gt;
|1912&lt;br /&gt;
|requires &amp;quot;social and cultural assimilation&amp;quot; for successful immigration&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster dictionary (1994)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[meritocracy]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1958&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[microeconomics]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1947&lt;br /&gt;
|the study of the economics of the individual person or business&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|mindset&lt;br /&gt;
|1926&lt;br /&gt;
|close-minded point-of-view, typically in adherence to a liberal falsehood and often to the exclusion of Christ&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|missile defense&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by President Ronald Reagan as part of [[SDI]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|missionary&lt;br /&gt;
|1625&lt;br /&gt;
|someone sent on a mission, typically a religious mission&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|mobocracy&lt;br /&gt;
|1754&lt;br /&gt;
|rule by a mob, as at Wikipedia&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|monogamy&lt;br /&gt;
|1612&lt;br /&gt;
|this has the same date of origin as &amp;quot;productive&amp;quot;, and that may not be a coincidence!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|motivation&lt;br /&gt;
|1873&lt;br /&gt;
|can you believe the word did not exist before 1873?!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|muckety–muck&lt;br /&gt;
|1912&lt;br /&gt;
|a pejorative term for an arrogant person who holds a title or position considered to be important by others&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Murphy's Law&lt;br /&gt;
|1958&lt;br /&gt;
|if something can go wrong, then it will go wrong: this was a conservative insight by an engineer Edward Murphy&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|muscle car&lt;br /&gt;
|1967&lt;br /&gt;
|placing a powerful engine in a classic two-door car for highly efficient performance; also celebrate masculine style against erosion by feminism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|myopic&lt;br /&gt;
|1752&lt;br /&gt;
|originally a term in optometry, 1990's used to describe liberals' lack of foresight&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nanny state&lt;br /&gt;
|1978&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;Under the New Economic Policy, [the new French Prime Minister Raymond] Barre has made it clear that industrial lame ducks can no longer count on the generosity of Nanny i.e. the state - for bailing out.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Leo Ryan, &amp;quot;Economy Shored up: France's new surge of liberalism,&amp;quot; The Globe and Mail (Canada) (Aug. 1, 1978)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Note how two powerful new conservative terms led to a third here!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|negativism&lt;br /&gt;
|1824&lt;br /&gt;
|mental attitude that tends that is skeptical about almost everything, except one's own views&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|newspeak&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|political or media expressions using circumlocution and euphemisms to disguise or distract from the truth; first coined by [[George Orwell]] in ''[[1984]]''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|non-justiciable&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Used by the state attorneys for West Virginia (including Philip Steptoe, founder of Steptoe &amp;amp; Johnson) in ''Pennsylvania v. West Virginia'', 262 U.S. 553 (1923):  &amp;quot;It is not the 'subject of judicial cognizance,' Hans v. Louisiana, 134 U.S. 1, 15; Louisiana v. Texas, 176 U.S 1, 15; Missouri v. Illinois, 180 U.S. 208, 233, or 'susceptible of judicial solution.' Louisiana v. Texas, 176 U.S. 1, 18, 22; Missouri v. Illinois, 180 U.S. 208, 233, 234.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|a difficult issue that the courts should not attempt to resolve, often because it is too political in nature&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|non-locality&lt;br /&gt;
|1920s&lt;br /&gt;
|[[action at a distance]] at the atomic level; even though proven, it is still opposed by those who believe in [[relativity]] and still not recognized by Merriam-Webster&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Old Glory&lt;br /&gt;
|1862&lt;br /&gt;
|the ''United States of America'' flag, Stars &amp;amp; Stripes&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|one-size-fits-all&lt;br /&gt;
|1996&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Was there an earlier conservative use?  Frank Zappa's album cover in the 1970s does not count!&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|Lee Wishing, director of communications for conservative [[Grove City College]], in criticism of how the government administers student loans: &amp;quot;Unfortunately, with government programs, it's one size fits all.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.eagleforum.org/educate/1996/dec96/er-dec96.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The 2008 Republican platform states, &amp;quot;We reject a one-size-fits-all approach and support parental options, including home schooling, and local innovations such as schools or classes for boys only or for girls only and alternative and innovative school schedules.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://platform.gop.com/2008Platform.pdf&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|open-minded&lt;br /&gt;
|1828&lt;br /&gt;
|see [[Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[opportunity cost]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1911&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|optimism&lt;br /&gt;
|1759&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|originalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1985&lt;br /&gt;
|taken from original intent, The belief that the United States Constitution should be interpreted in the way the authors originally intended it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Orwellian&lt;br /&gt;
|1960s&lt;br /&gt;
|terminology or style that advances the power of big government but is hurtful or nonsensical&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=604&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ostensibly&lt;br /&gt;
|1765&lt;br /&gt;
|having an outward appearance that may not reflect the underlying truth; good potential use is Luke 3:23 in describing Jesus as the son of Joseph&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|parenting&lt;br /&gt;
|1958&lt;br /&gt;
|children raising&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Parkinson's Law&lt;br /&gt;
|1955&lt;br /&gt;
|how bureaucracies expand regardless of the productivity, and how inefficient work expands to fill the time available for its completion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[patent troll]]&lt;br /&gt;
|2001&lt;br /&gt;
|a company that obtains or buys up patents for the sole purpose of asserting infringement claims, and without any intention of actually manufacturing the invention; the term was first coined by Peter Detkin, in-house counsel to Intel&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|patriotism&lt;br /&gt;
|1726&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Pavlovian&lt;br /&gt;
|1926&lt;br /&gt;
|a conditioned, automatic and unthinking response to a signal; it has been used twice by [[conservative]] Supreme Court Justices. &amp;quot;It is well established that this Court does not, or at least should not, respond in Pavlovian fashion to confessions of error by the [[Solicitor General]].&amp;quot;  ''De Marco v. United States'', 415 U.S. 449, 451 (1974) ([[Rehnquist]], J., dissenting); &amp;quot;'[[Incorporation doctrine|Incorporation]]' has become so Pavlovian that my Brother BLACK barely mentions the [[Fourteenth Amendment]] in the course of an 11-page opinion dealing with the procedural rule the State of [[Florida]] has adopted for cases tried in Florida courts under Florida's criminal laws.&amp;quot; '' Williams v. Fla.'', 399 U.S. 78, 144 (1970) ([[Potter Stewart|Stewart]], J., dissenting and concurring).&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|perpetual war&lt;br /&gt;
|1947&lt;br /&gt;
|Coined by historian Charles A. Beard,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Charles A. Beard is best known for interpreting the Constitution as being primarily motivated by economic interests.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; it has been used most recently by [[Ann Coulter]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[personhood]] &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/personhood Personhood] Dictionary.com&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|1955&lt;br /&gt;
|Inherent rights guaranteed to all human beings from the beginning of their biological development, including the pre-born, partially born. Also, the state or fact of being a person.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Philadelphia&lt;br /&gt;
|1682&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by [[William Penn]] and meaning &amp;quot;city of brotherly love,&amp;quot; the concept captures the &amp;quot;[[best of the public]]&amp;quot; approach&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[phonics]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1684&lt;br /&gt;
|conservatives have long championed phonics to promote literacy, Bible-reading, and informed voters; liberals take the opposite position&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|phony&lt;br /&gt;
|1900&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This surprisingly recent origin appears to be derived from a British confidence game.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|needed to address [[liberal deceit]] &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|political machine&lt;br /&gt;
|1905&lt;br /&gt;
|a pejorative term for local and typically Democratic power structures that prevent outsiders from winning elections; first used by George Washington Plunkitt to criticize the Tammany Hall machine for which he served&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|[[politically correct]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1983&lt;br /&gt;
|This term originated among radicals at the [[University of Wisconsin-Madison]] to enforce radical orthodoxy, but immediately flipped in usage to become a term of mockery of radicals.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;For an early different usage of the word, see 1793 J. WILSON in U.S. Rep. (U.S. Supreme Court) 2 (1798) 462 Sentiments and expressions of this inaccurate kind prevail in our..language... ‘The United States’, instead of the ‘People of the United States’, is the toast given. This is not politically correct.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The term may have come from Chairman Mao in 1936.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|politicize&lt;br /&gt;
|1846&lt;br /&gt;
|seeking political gain at the expense of truth or quality&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The Merriam-Webster definition (1994 ed.) is incomplete and unclear: &amp;quot;to give a political tone or character to&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|potential&lt;br /&gt;
|1817&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Usage here refers to &amp;quot;promise&amp;quot;, not &amp;quot;possibility&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|privatize&lt;br /&gt;
|1940&lt;br /&gt;
|to return a business or enterprise from state to private control; to de-nationalize.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|proactive&lt;br /&gt;
|1933&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|productive&lt;br /&gt;
|1612&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|productivity&lt;br /&gt;
|1810&lt;br /&gt;
|the gap of about 200 years between the creation of &amp;quot;productive&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;productivity&amp;quot; is astounding&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[pro-life]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1960&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|property right&lt;br /&gt;
|1853&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|provocateur&lt;br /&gt;
|1919&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who spends more time causing unproductive conflicts rather than advancing knowledge, accomplishing legitimate goals, or helping anyone&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|quantify&lt;br /&gt;
|1840&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|race card&lt;br /&gt;
|1995&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;This is the date of its widespread familiarity.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;Playing the race card&amp;quot; consists of relying on racial emotions or charges of racism in order to overcome the truth and logic in politics, legal proceedings, or otherwise; this term became familiar in the criticism of the defense and acquittal of O.J. Simpson for the murder of his ex-wife and her friend.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rapture&lt;br /&gt;
|1629&lt;br /&gt;
|spiritual ecstasy[http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=rapture]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[recidivism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1886&lt;br /&gt;
|the tendency for people lacking in [[faith]] and determination to revert to prior patterns of harmful behavior, such as repeat criminal offenders&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|recuse&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|self-removal by a decision-maker (especially a judge) because of possible bias with respect to the pending issue&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|red tape&lt;br /&gt;
|1736&lt;br /&gt;
|excessive bureaucracy and procedural complexity which frustrate meaningful activity and progress&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[relativism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1865&lt;br /&gt;
|the view that ethical truths are not absolute, but depend on the person or group that holds them&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[responsibility]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1737&lt;br /&gt;
|1787 HAMILTON Federalist No. 63 II. 193 Responsibility in order to be reasonable must be limited to objects within the power of the responsible party.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|reverse discrimination&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|the use of quotas or affirmative action to use race or gender to discriminate against a better qualified person&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|revisionism&lt;br /&gt;
|1903&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The first use of this term, now obscure, refers to a Marxist movement that preferred evolutionary rather than revolutionary change.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|distortions of history to promote liberal bias&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|riot act&lt;br /&gt;
|1715&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Its colloquial use, as in &amp;quot;read them the riot act,&amp;quot; began in 1819.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|the Riot Act was a law passed in England in 1715 to authorize officials to disperse riots&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|scapegoating&lt;br /&gt;
|1943&lt;br /&gt;
|a term criticizing how people, particularly liberals, deflect accountability and blame from themselves to others; inspired by Leviticus 16:8.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|salutary neglect&lt;br /&gt;
|1775&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by the [[conservative]] [[Edmund Burke]] in his 1775 speech to the British [[House of Commons]] entitled &amp;quot;On Moving His Resolutions for Conciliation with the Colonies&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.archive.org/stream/burkesspeechonco00burkuoft/burkesspeechonco00burkuoft_djvu.txt&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|school choice&lt;br /&gt;
|1980&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by Milton Friedman in his book, ''Free to Choose'' &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[scientific fascism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|a coordinated effort by a group of scientists to enforce a certain point of view upon others.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Segway&lt;br /&gt;
|2001&lt;br /&gt;
|Dean Kamen's trademark spelling of &amp;quot;segue&amp;quot; for use of Yankee Ingenuity to improve efficiency, to refer to a form of battery-powered transportation.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[self-defense]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1651&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|self-destruct&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|often the tragic result of liberal falsehoods&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Discipline|self-discipline]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1838&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|self-reliant&lt;br /&gt;
|1848&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|separation of powers&lt;br /&gt;
|1748&lt;br /&gt;
|the fundamental insight underlying the [[U.S. Constitution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|skullduggery&lt;br /&gt;
|1867&lt;br /&gt;
|underhanded or unscrupulous behavior&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|slippery slope&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|term has been widely used for decades to expose the fallacy of &amp;quot;it doesn't hurt to try&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smoke and mirrors&lt;br /&gt;
|1979&lt;br /&gt;
|something intended to disguise or draw attention away from an often embarrassing or unpleasant issue. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/smoke%20and%20mirrors Smoke and Mirrors, Merriam-Webster]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Widely used during the 1990s to describe [[Bill Clinton]]'s political strategy.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smoking gun&lt;br /&gt;
|1974&lt;br /&gt;
|a law-and-order term, &amp;quot;smoking gun&amp;quot; was first used as figurative term in a reported judicial decision in ''Rodgers v. United States Steel Corp.'', 1975 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 12775 (W.D. Pa. Apr. 20, 1975), and many literal uses of the term in court decisions before that!&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[socialist]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1827&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who advocates government control over the economy, and particularly state control of the means of production&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|social justice rhetoric&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|Language and rhetorical ploys equating equality of outcome with justice.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|spend-and-tax&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/02/morning-bell-the-obama-tax-and-spend-economy-is-here/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|a variation on &amp;quot;tax-and-spend&amp;quot; (see below), &amp;quot;spend-and-tax&amp;quot; consists of spending the money first and then trying to justify raising taxes based on the deficit created by the spending&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stalking horse&lt;br /&gt;
|1788&lt;br /&gt;
|a candidate or issue that serves to increase the chances that ''another'' will win, as in &amp;quot;antifederalists attempted to win elections by using 'the stalking horse of amendments.'&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''Centinel'', 1788 (quoted in ''The Federalist party in Massachusetts to the year 1800'', By Anson Ely Morse).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[statism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1919&lt;br /&gt;
|advocates for centralized government and government ownership&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|straightforward&lt;br /&gt;
|1806&lt;br /&gt;
|something liberals are not&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|straw man&lt;br /&gt;
|1896&lt;br /&gt;
|an imaginary argument or example set up for the purpose of easily knocking down, while distracting from valid arguments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Stupaked&lt;br /&gt;
|2010&lt;br /&gt;
|hurt by someone who reassured everyone he would do the right thing, but then switched at the last minute to do the opposite (refers especially to [[abortion betrayal]]s)&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Columnist Kathleen Parker is credited with first coining this term.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|supply-side&lt;br /&gt;
|1976&lt;br /&gt;
|the economic theory that reducing taxes expands economic activity by encouraging greater earnings and investments; proven successful during the Reagan Administration in the 1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|takeover&lt;br /&gt;
|1917&lt;br /&gt;
|as in the takeover of government by the communist revolution in that year&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tax-and-spend&lt;br /&gt;
|1937 &lt;br /&gt;
|not yet recognized by Merriam-Webster, it is included in dictionary.com and it means the liberal policy of raising taxes and increasing government spending&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|taxpayer&lt;br /&gt;
|1816&lt;br /&gt;
|the word highlights who is really paying for things&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[term limits]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1861&lt;br /&gt;
|can you believe this is not in the dictionary yet? Merriam-Webster omits it, but dictionary.com has it&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/term+limit&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|terrorism&lt;br /&gt;
|1795&lt;br /&gt;
|this was during the French Revolution&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[textualism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1952&lt;br /&gt;
|first used by Justice [[Robert Jackson]] in his influential concurrence in ''[[Youngstown Sheet and Tube Co. v. Sawyer]]'', 343 U.S. 579 (1952), it now describes the legal philosophy of Justice [[Antonin Scalia]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|top-notch&lt;br /&gt;
|1900&lt;br /&gt;
|the highest quality, which requires respect for merit to recognize&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[totalitarianism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1926&lt;br /&gt;
|term which identifies the similarities of fascist and communist regimes and ideologies and urges resistance&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tour de force&lt;br /&gt;
|1802&lt;br /&gt;
|a feat of skill&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|trademark&lt;br /&gt;
|1838&lt;br /&gt;
|extends the concept of private property to the marks used by business&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|traditionalist&lt;br /&gt;
|1856&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;adherence to the doctrines or practices of a tradition...the beliefs of those opposed to modernism, liberalism, or radicalism&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/traditionalist&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[transaction cost]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1961&lt;br /&gt;
|Economist [[Ronald Coase]] won a [[Nobel Prize]] for this.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[transistor]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|named by John R. Pierce and developed at the [[conservative]] [[Bell Labs]], this invention epitomized Yankee ingenuity; Pierce was a critic of claims of [[artificial intelligence]] and was the future developer of [[Telstar]], a precursor to the [[Strategic Defense Initiative]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tree huggers&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&lt;br /&gt;
|still not recognized by the dictionary, this term criticizes extreme environmentalists, but they proudly use the term also to describe what they literally do&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|trivia&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|insignificant detail, which can sometimes obscure what is important and distract people from the Bible; liberal [[Wikipedia]] is filled with trivial junk&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Trojan horse&lt;br /&gt;
|1837&lt;br /&gt;
|describes a type of liberal [[deceit]]:  subversion from within&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|trust but verify&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by President Ronald Reagan as the approach to use towards communist [[deceit]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ugly duckling&lt;br /&gt;
|1883&lt;br /&gt;
|an unpromising appearance but often with great unseen potential&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ultra vires&lt;br /&gt;
|1793&lt;br /&gt;
|beyond the authority, especially of a government or corporate official&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|unborn child&lt;br /&gt;
|1791&lt;br /&gt;
|the rights of the unborn child have been recognized in English law since the 1600s, but the specific term &amp;quot;unborn child&amp;quot; itself may have been first used by an attorney arguing before the New Jersey Supreme Court in ''Den v. Sparks'', 1 N.J.L. 67 (Sup. Ct. 1791)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|underdog&lt;br /&gt;
|1887&lt;br /&gt;
|[[David]] v. [[Goliath]], [[Cinderella]], [[best of the public]], etc.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|underemployed&lt;br /&gt;
|1908&lt;br /&gt;
|having less than full-time or suitable employment&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|vandalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1798&lt;br /&gt;
|malicious destruction of someone else's property&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|veracity&lt;br /&gt;
|1623&lt;br /&gt;
|devotion to truthfulness&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|vet&lt;br /&gt;
|1904&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.slate.com/id/2199254/?from=rss&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|a verb meaning to screen for flaws&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[victimization]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1840&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|volunteer&lt;br /&gt;
|1618&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who freely offers to help&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|wannabe&lt;br /&gt;
|1981&lt;br /&gt;
|a word that criticizes liberal [[status worship]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|War on Terror&lt;br /&gt;
|2001&lt;br /&gt;
|no listing at Merriam-Webster February 2, 2009 Obama ends use of the conservative lexicon. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://pewforum.org/news/display.php?NewsID=17455 Obama administration drops 'war on terror' phrase] Pew Forum, February 2, 2009&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|waterloo&lt;br /&gt;
|1816&lt;br /&gt;
|a final defeat or setback, coined merely one year after the [[English]] defeated [[Napoleon]] at the [[Battle of Waterloo]]; there has never been a &amp;quot;waterloo&amp;quot; for [[Christianity]] or [[conservatism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|wildcatter&lt;br /&gt;
|1883&lt;br /&gt;
|a pro-energy term that describes someone who drills for oil in fields not known to have oil&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|word poverty&lt;br /&gt;
|2001&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.aft.org/pubs-reports/american_educator/summer2001/lang_gap_moats.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by President [[George W. Bush]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|work (physical sense)&lt;br /&gt;
|1826&lt;br /&gt;
|a physical measure&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;force times distance&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of effort used to increase energy&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|work ethic&lt;br /&gt;
|1951&lt;br /&gt;
|a habit of working as a moral good&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|worldview&lt;br /&gt;
|1858&lt;br /&gt;
|a comprehensive way of looking at life and the world; sometimes used to criticize a liberal's irrational belief system&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|yellow journalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1898&lt;br /&gt;
|the practice, started by newspaper publishers Joseph Pulitzer and his rival William Randolph Hearst, of sensationalizing and biasing newspaper headlines and articles in order to influence public opinion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
__TOC__ &amp;lt;!--Do not remove this. We want to keep insights on the first screen of viewing--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Conservative Words Not Yet Recognized by the Dictionary ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A thousand new words are developed in English each year.  Here is a growing list of conservative concepts, each of which is not yet defined by a single word or two.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Not Yet Recognized Terms&lt;br /&gt;
!Suggestions&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|pre-9/11 thinking&lt;br /&gt;
|9/10 mindset&lt;br /&gt;
|terror is jurisdiction of the courts&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|anti-family&lt;br /&gt;
|tradition opposer, familiopathic&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|causing harm by spreading falsehoods&lt;br /&gt;
|deceit&lt;br /&gt;
|e.g., denying or concealing disease and infertility caused by promiscuity&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cradle to grave &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/spanish/from%20cradle%20to%20grave cradle to grave- no entry found] Merriam-Websters&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|sanctity of life, conception to natural death&lt;br /&gt;
|pro-life stance, also can mean socialist entitlement programs&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|cut and run&lt;br /&gt;
|surrender advocates&lt;br /&gt;
|when the going gets tough, run away from the problem&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deliberate ignorance]]&lt;br /&gt;
|mind-locked, self-centered pride obscuring the truth&lt;br /&gt;
|the term exists; the dictionary does not yet include it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|denial that [[Hell]] exists&lt;br /&gt;
|Hell-denier? Antinfernal? (Should be &amp;quot;antihadessic&amp;quot; so as not to mix Hellenate and Latinate roots)&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[abstinence denial|denier of the effectiveness of abstinence]]&lt;br /&gt;
|abstinence-denier?&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|drive-by media&lt;br /&gt;
|partisan slander&lt;br /&gt;
|liberal mainstream media assault on the GOP or conservative principles, deceitful attacks for opposing viewpoints&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[earmark]]&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|spending on specific projects at the request of a particular congressman, and without meaningful examination by others voting on it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|easily amused by [[deceit]]&lt;br /&gt;
|dolophile&lt;br /&gt;
|from Greek/Latin root ''dolo-'' meaning guile, deceit, deception [http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/664]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|family-friendly&lt;br /&gt;
|wholesome&lt;br /&gt;
|describes TV programming, websites, social events that are not offensive&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hatred of one's country, refusal to recognize the good elements of it, or unreasonably critical of it&lt;br /&gt;
|misopatria, misopatrist&lt;br /&gt;
|From Greek ''misein'', to hate, and Latin ''patria'', nation or homeland&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|heavenly body&lt;br /&gt;
|celestial body&lt;br /&gt;
|natural objects visible in the sky&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hellbound&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|recognized by over 1.3 million sites in a Google search and no substitute term is available, yet dictionaries refuse to recognize it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hoax and Chains&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Keynesian economics]]&lt;br /&gt;
|a phonetic play on the rhetoric slogan of Hope and Change. Hope replaced by unemployment and Change represents obsessive tax burdens. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|hoax plant&lt;br /&gt;
|fake townhall, kkk teaparty&lt;br /&gt;
|a term to describe a deceitful method of placing an operative that appears to be part of a group in order to push an agenda or to make a competing agenda look ridiculous. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Hollywood values]]&lt;br /&gt;
|West Coast Hedonism &lt;br /&gt;
|Over 800,000 results on Google, not yet recognized by Merriam-Webster&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Illegal Alien|illegal alien]]&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|widely used in court decisions and political discourse for years, Merriam-Webster still does not recognize it is as a term.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|infotainment&lt;br /&gt;
|tabloid news, dramacast&lt;br /&gt;
|mainstream media presents drama fluff stories as news, e.g. 20/20 - Datelin&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[limited government]]&lt;br /&gt;
|we the people democracy&lt;br /&gt;
|first testament to this was the [[U.S. Constitution]], defining [[Reagan]]s presidency, can't be found in Merriam-Websters. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/limited%20government Limited government - Not found] Merriam-Webster's&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[limousine liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
|hypocrite&lt;br /&gt;
|rich promoting causes which they themselves don't adhere to&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|merit pay&lt;br /&gt;
|performance bonus&lt;br /&gt;
|Doing your job better with perks as a reward. The typical liberal union teacher avoids merit pay at all costs, self before students. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[militant gays]]&lt;br /&gt;
|intimidating homosexual&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|modern idolatry&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;media idolatry&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;money idolatry&amp;quot;; &amp;quot;celebrity idolatry&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|idolatry conjures images of golden calves, and a modern version is needed&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|moral fabric&lt;br /&gt;
|domestic tranquility&lt;br /&gt;
|ethics and virtues united for the common good of all&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|morally bankrupt&lt;br /&gt;
|[[atheism]], self-void  &lt;br /&gt;
|ethically and spiritually challenged souls&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|opposite of [[global warming]]&lt;br /&gt;
|regional warming&lt;br /&gt;
|the North pole shrinks as the South pole increases&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|opposite of [[materialism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|spiritualism and idealism have been its philosophical opposites, historically&lt;br /&gt;
|[[dualism]] has been suggested, but it is not the ''opposite'' of [[materialism]]; &amp;quot;spiritualism&amp;quot; is not a common term and is the &amp;quot;opposite&amp;quot; of materialism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[peer pressure]]&lt;br /&gt;
|used in titles to professional journal articles as early as 1994&lt;br /&gt;
|can you believe that isn't recognized by Merriam-Webster?&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|proven wrong, a refusal to admit it&lt;br /&gt;
|mulism; heel-digger?&lt;br /&gt;
|cf. mulish. This refusal is what promoted the [[Parable of the Good Samaritan]]. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|religious right&lt;br /&gt;
|Christian conservatives&lt;br /&gt;
|religion in America almost exclusively a conservative institution, no religious left term in existence.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|reward failure&lt;br /&gt;
|TARP &lt;br /&gt;
|too big to fail, bailout bankrupt, mismanagement subsidized &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rewrite history &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/medical/rewrite%20history  rewrite history not found, Merriam-Websters]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|[[deceit]], mislead &lt;br /&gt;
|Commonly used term describing liberal deceit to hide, defraud others about factual history.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|rogue states&lt;br /&gt;
|rogue nations&lt;br /&gt;
|nations defying international law, only rogue is listed in Merriman-Websters&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|runaway jury&lt;br /&gt;
|The term has existed for decades, but Merriam-Webster has not recognized it yet.&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Rule of Law&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[schlockumentary]]&lt;br /&gt;
|propaganda film&lt;br /&gt;
|documentary films based on falsehoods and half-truths&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|[[Second generation atheist|second-generation atheist]]&lt;br /&gt;
|cradle atheist&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|selective outrage&lt;br /&gt;
|partisan hypocrisy, bipolar&lt;br /&gt;
|to be against something to further a cause and reject, stay silent, ignore or discount something similar. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smear merchant&lt;br /&gt;
|serial slander&lt;br /&gt;
|to constantly hurl degrading or false accusations against others&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|strict constructionism&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|an important term for over 200 years to describe adherence to the text of the Constitution, Merriam-Webster still does not recognize it.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Conservative| Traditional Values]]&lt;br /&gt;
| principles of Conservatism&lt;br /&gt;
|much the same as family values but incorporating all aspects society; family, religion, self-sufficiency, the truth, hard work. Only listed in Merriam-Websters to describe what Nilihism is against. &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|true emergency&lt;br /&gt;
|life support&lt;br /&gt;
|meaning a high probability of serious injury or death to an individual or property. Emergency has been watered down, e.g. to be locked out of one's car.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Unaffected by, or impervious to, the media&lt;br /&gt;
|mediaproof&lt;br /&gt;
|cf. bulletproof. ''Once John became aware of the extent of [[liberal deceit]], he set about mediaproofing his mind''.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== New Liberal Terms ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
New liberal words often have deceptive, or nonsensical, meanings.  Here are some new words created by liberals to combat [[conservatism]]:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!New Term&lt;br /&gt;
!Origin date&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[agnosticism|agnostic]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1860&lt;br /&gt;
|someone who claims to not know whether [[God]] exists but still lives like an [[atheist]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[atheism|atheist]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1571&lt;br /&gt;
|useful and often deceptive alternative name for an anti-Christian&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Big Bang theory|big bang]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1948&lt;br /&gt;
|term invented by the leading [[British]] physicist Sir [[Fred Hoyle]] to ''mock'' this suggestion of how the universe was formed, but later accepted as a serious term rather than mockery;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Compare this migration with that of &amp;quot;politically correct,&amp;quot; which started out as a serious term but then adopted a sense of mockery&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; it's liberal because it trivializes the beauty and the [[faith]] of the moment&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bilingual education&lt;br /&gt;
|1972&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism describing a costly and hurtful program that hinders the learning of English by foreign-born children in American [[public school]]s, which hurts their future opportunities&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[carbon footprint]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1999&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/carbon%20footprint&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|this term indicates an individual human's effect on the environment by production of carbon dioxide &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|chairperson&lt;br /&gt;
|1971&lt;br /&gt;
|even Alice Sturgis, the leading parliamentarian of the 20th century, rejected this cumbersome form of political correctness.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|check-off&lt;br /&gt;
|1911&lt;br /&gt;
|automatic deduction of union dues by the employer from the employee's paycheck, so he has no choice&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[class warfare]]&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|first entered the political lexicon primarily as an attack by liberals against conservatives. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.spinsanity.org/columns/20030115.html The art of &amp;quot;class warfare&amp;quot;], Ben Fritz, Spinsanity.org, January 15, 2003&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[communism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1840&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|compassionate-care clinics&lt;br /&gt;
|2008&lt;br /&gt;
|a term describe pot-shops that dispense medical marijuana &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/11/magazines/fortune/medical_marijuana_legalizing.fortune/?postversion=2009091116 How marijuana became legal, CNN, September 11, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|compassion fatigue&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|liberals, driven by materialistic self-interest, are likely to suffer from this.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[condescension]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1647&lt;br /&gt;
|treating another person as though they are inferior&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[creationism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1880&lt;br /&gt;
|like most &amp;quot;isms&amp;quot;, creationism is a derogatory term coined preferred most by opponents of it.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Dark Ages]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1730&lt;br /&gt;
|a term coined in the so-called [[enlightenment]] to disparage the period between the fall of the [[Roman Empire]] and c.1000, when the Christian faith, and its learning and culture, spread across Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Dead white males|dead white males]]&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|a disparaging term used of significant figures from previous generations by those who wish to undermine [[Cultural Literacy|cultural literacy]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|deconstruction&lt;br /&gt;
|1973&lt;br /&gt;
|a style of interpretation of texts that looks beyond the plain meaning of the text in order to infer or accuse the writers of social bias&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|diva&lt;br /&gt;
|1883&lt;br /&gt;
|modern use to describe female Hollywood/media personalities&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Détente|detente]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1970s&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism referring to pacifist policy re. the Soviet Union&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|displaced foreign traveler &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2010/07/bureaucrats-now.html Bureaucrats Now Call Illegal Aliens &amp;quot;Displaced Foreign Travelers&amp;quot;, Moonbattery.com, July 21, 2010]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|2010&lt;br /&gt;
|another politically correct term for [[illegal alien]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|distributive justice&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|a term used to redefine socialist abridgment of rights as &amp;quot;just&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[enlightenment]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1669&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Environmentalist|environmentalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&lt;br /&gt;
|a mixture of [[pseudoscience]] and neo-[[paganism]] used to justify the imposition of [[socialist]]ic controls.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[exclusionary rule]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1964&lt;br /&gt;
|an invented rule that requires censoring and withholding from the jury certain incriminating evidence about a criminal defendant, simply based on how the evidence was obtained.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[family planning]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1939&lt;br /&gt;
|planning intended to determine the number and spacing of one's children through birth control &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://mw1.m-w.com/dictionary/family%20planning Family Planning, Merriam-Webster]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|freethinker&lt;br /&gt;
|1692&lt;br /&gt;
|the euphemism &amp;quot;free&amp;quot; hides the hostility towards faith, which is not free&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|[[fundamentalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fundamentalism&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; From a series of pamphlets called &amp;quot;The Fundamentals&amp;quot; which outlined the movement.  Perjorative usage started when the liberal [[Harry Emerson Fosdick]] began using the term in a straw man attack against [[Conservative Christianity]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[feminism]]   &lt;br /&gt;
|1895   &lt;br /&gt;
|notionally, &amp;quot;the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes&amp;quot;; in reality, the attempt to destroy traditional family, societal and religious values by erasing or undermining natural gender differences.  &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[gay rights]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|the movement for civil rights for homosexuals&lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|glass ceiling&lt;br /&gt;
|1984&lt;br /&gt;
|the notion that an invisible barrier prevents women and ethnic minorities from reaching high office; an excuse for [[feminist]]s and others to demand [[affirmative action]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[global warming]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|the baseless [[environmentalist]] mantra that the earth's temperature is rising, and that human intervention is the cause.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[goth]]&lt;br /&gt;
|?&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;a style of rock music, noted especially for somber or ethereal tones and lugubrious lyrics&amp;quot;, or someone who performs or listens to this style of music.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com, ''goth'' [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/goth]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Goths often &amp;quot;dress in black with heavy jewelry&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com, ''goth rock'' [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/goth%20rock]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The term is taken from the name of &amp;quot;a Germanic people who invaded the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com, ''goth'' [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/goth]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|gun control&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism for restricting the right to keep and bear arms &lt;br /&gt;
|- &lt;br /&gt;
|[[homophobia]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1969&lt;br /&gt;
|used by Liberals to describe a failure to subscribe 100% to the [[homosexual agenda]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[humanism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1808 &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://newhumanist.org.uk/1740&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[imperialism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1851&lt;br /&gt;
|a clever term later used by liberals to interfere with Christian missionaries and stopping anti-Christian tyranny&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[isolationism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1922&lt;br /&gt;
|a pejorative term that is critical of American politicians putting America first in priorities&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Keynesianism&lt;br /&gt;
|1946&lt;br /&gt;
|advocacy of 'tax and spend' policies as elaborated by the economist [[John Maynard Keynes]]; a [[euphemism]] for back-door [[Socialism]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Living Constitution]]&lt;br /&gt;
|2000&lt;br /&gt;
|a continually evolving Constitution (first used by presidential candidate Al Gore, title of a 1936 book by Howard McBain)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|main squeeze&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|one's romantic partner, typically in an unmarried relationship&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|McCarthyism&lt;br /&gt;
|1950&lt;br /&gt;
|originally, investigations by Sen. Joe McCarthy of Communists working in sensitive USA government jobs. Later, it more broadly refers to holding radical leftists accountable for their beliefs and loyalties.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[metrosexual]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1994&lt;br /&gt;
|fashion and glamour man&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|moderate&lt;br /&gt;
|late 1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|the original term dates from the French Revolution, but its meaning today is a euphemism for someone who favors abortion and/or supports censorship of Christianity in some ways.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[moving the goalposts]]&lt;br /&gt;
|late 1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|a sports analogy designed to avoid answering a logical follow-up question; this is a favorite term of evolutionists to avoid addressing obvious deficiencies in their theory&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|nationalize&lt;br /&gt;
|1800&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism for the government taking over ownership and control of a large company or entire industry, as in socialism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|natural selection&lt;br /&gt;
|1857&lt;br /&gt;
|a misleading and euphemistic term for the theory that genetic advantages and conflict dictate survival&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Nihilism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1817&lt;br /&gt;
|a rejection of the values system, independently anarchist from society norms.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[population control]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|the issue of population dates back to Confucius. Liberals promoted the term after the book The Population Bomb by Paul R. Ehrlich&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[pro-choice]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1975&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism for insisting on taxpayer-funded [[abortion]]; people who claim to be pro-choice typically oppose ''informed'' choice, which makes the &amp;quot;choice&amp;quot; meaningless&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[progressivism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1892&lt;br /&gt;
|the progressive movement was not entirely liberal; it was started by a Republican and shared some goals with conservatives, and still does&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[psychoanalysis]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1906&lt;br /&gt;
|contributed to de-spiritualization of human beings&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|public option&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|obfuscate rewording of government control &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[quote mining]]&lt;br /&gt;
|non-existent&lt;br /&gt;
|a term used by [[evolutionists]] to describe taking quotes out of context in order to damage the position of the quoted party.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|reproductive health&lt;br /&gt;
|1994 &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;defined by the United Nations (UN) in 1994 at the Cairo International Conference&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|abortion supporters jargon for rights/justice for pregnant women, no rights/justice for the child.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Sexual Discrimination|sexism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1968&lt;br /&gt;
|That which is practiced by those who do not give total support to [[feminism]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|shovel-ready &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://skylineviews.typepad.com/skyline_views/2009/04/is-it-time-to-add-shovelready-to-the-dictionary.html Is it time to add shovel-ready to the dictionary? Skyline Views, April 24, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|2008&lt;br /&gt;
|jobs and people ready to work if funded&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|situation ethics&lt;br /&gt;
|1955&lt;br /&gt;
|a euphemism for denying fixed ethical standards&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|stimulus packages&lt;br /&gt;
|2009&lt;br /&gt;
|used by government(s) to be perceived as taking unprecedented measures to stimulate aggregate economic demand; during a crisis on economic growth and private jobs, liberal government entities are known to deceptively take advantage of its subject in the form of &amp;quot;stimulus packages,&amp;quot; as an opportunity to pursue policies that further social and environmental agendas.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/12/62/42555546.pdf For a stronger, cleaner, ''fairer'' world economy], ''Organisation For Economic Co-Operation and Development'' (OECD), 2010.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|strict liability&lt;br /&gt;
|1869&lt;br /&gt;
|court-imposed liability even when there is no evidence of any fault by the defendant&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|sustainability&lt;br /&gt;
|1727&lt;br /&gt;
|[[environmentalism|environmentalist]] buzzword&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Swift-Boating&lt;br /&gt;
|2004&lt;br /&gt;
|allegations of unfair campaign tactics.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|transforming society&lt;br /&gt;
|2008&lt;br /&gt;
|Obama, Rahm and Axelrod use this term. It dates to [[Saul Alinsky]] and Chicago politics. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://marklevinshow.com/sectional.asp?id=32930# Mark Levin Show, July 7, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|transnationalist&lt;br /&gt;
|2006&lt;br /&gt;
|popularized by Yale Law School Dean Harold Koh in a 2006 law review article:  &amp;quot;The transnationalists view domestic courts as having a critical role to play in domesticating international law into U.S. law ....&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Penn State Law Review (2006).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|undocumented immigrant&lt;br /&gt;
|2000&lt;br /&gt;
|a [[politically correct]] replacement for illegal alien.&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|unfair&lt;br /&gt;
|1700&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|union shop&lt;br /&gt;
|1904&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Unitarian]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1687&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|will to power&lt;br /&gt;
|1907&lt;br /&gt;
|[[Nietzsche]]'s concept of the drive of a superman to perfect himself by exercising creative power; it didn't catch on&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|woman's rights&lt;br /&gt;
|1833&lt;br /&gt;
|women equal to men; the defining movement to justify aborting babies in the 20th century&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Rate of Generation of Liberal Terms ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The rate of generation of liberal terms is increasing, but not with the enduring value of the conservative terms and not with their geometric rate of increase.  A remarkably high percentage of new liberal terms originated in the 1960s, suggesting that new liberal terms arise in a sporadic manner heavily influenced by culture:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Century&lt;br /&gt;
!# New Liberal Terms&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1600s&lt;br /&gt;
|4&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1700s&lt;br /&gt;
|2&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1800s&lt;br /&gt;
|11&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|1900s&lt;br /&gt;
|31 (9 in the 1960s)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|2000s&lt;br /&gt;
|6&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Terms Difficult to Classify ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These new terms are difficult to classify:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Term&lt;br /&gt;
!Origin date&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[affirmative action|affirmative action]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1961&lt;br /&gt;
|first used in [http://www.thecre.com/fedlaw/legal6/eo10925.htm JFK's Executive Order 10925] in 1961 and subsequently promoted by [[LBJ]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[American exceptionalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1980&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;An estimate; it originated no later than 1983.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|coined by sociologist Daniel Bell, its meaning today is unclear; it is used to urge exporting American-style elections to the rest of the world as urged especially by [[neoconservatives]].&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Americanism&lt;br /&gt;
|1781&lt;br /&gt;
|Originally, a phrase unique to American English, later, loyalty to America and its principles&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|bipartisan&lt;br /&gt;
|1909&lt;br /&gt;
|emphasized by liberals when they are in the minority in power, but ignored by liberals when they are the majority in power&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|colonist&lt;br /&gt;
|1701&lt;br /&gt;
|settlers of a new country&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|compartmentalize&lt;br /&gt;
|1925&lt;br /&gt;
|compartmentalizing the Bible away from knowledge and education leads to ignorance and despair&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|eclectic&lt;br /&gt;
|1683&lt;br /&gt;
|taking the best from among different styles or ideas; compare [[best of the public]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|evangelism&lt;br /&gt;
|1620-30&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;isms&amp;quot; are usually pejorative, though this acquired a positive meaning over time, and perhaps from the outset&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|genetics&lt;br /&gt;
|1905&lt;br /&gt;
|perhaps this should be on the conservative list?&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|inane&lt;br /&gt;
|1662&lt;br /&gt;
|refers to comments, often made by liberals, that are utterly devoid of substance&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|junk legislation&lt;br /&gt;
|1980s&lt;br /&gt;
|used initially by liberals to complain about the lack of meaningful legislation&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|missionary&lt;br /&gt;
|1635-1645&lt;br /&gt;
|conservative?&lt;br /&gt;
|-  &lt;br /&gt;
|multitasking&lt;br /&gt;
|1966&lt;br /&gt;
|performing multiple tasks all at once&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|polar coordinates&lt;br /&gt;
|1694&lt;br /&gt;
|Newton may have used it earlier&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|republican&lt;br /&gt;
|1685&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|scrooge&lt;br /&gt;
|1843&lt;br /&gt;
|the main character in Charles Dickens' ''A Christmas Carol''; the story is based on materialism and is often used as a substitute for the Biblical account, but charity is a conservative value&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smoke and mirrors&lt;br /&gt;
|1982&lt;br /&gt;
|describes the use of deceit, particularly in politics; probably a conservative term, but will await more etymology about it&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|soapbox&lt;br /&gt;
|1907&lt;br /&gt;
|now used pejoratively, but probably not initially when it was a way for the public to participate&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|states' rights&lt;br /&gt;
|1790&lt;br /&gt;
|liberals often invoke this too; Democrats were its biggest champions in the 1800s (in connection with slavery), and even today on issues like legalizing drugs and same-sex marriage&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|technocrat&lt;br /&gt;
|1932&lt;br /&gt;
|technical expert&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|telecommute&lt;br /&gt;
|1974&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The first use of this term was in the British magazine ''The Economist''.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|a combination of a Greek root (&amp;quot;tele&amp;quot;, which means &amp;quot;far off&amp;quot;) and a Latin root (&amp;quot;commutare&amp;quot;, which means &amp;quot;to exchange&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|tomfoolery&lt;br /&gt;
|1812&lt;br /&gt;
|playful or foolish behavior&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|traditionalism&lt;br /&gt;
|1856&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;beliefs of those opposed to [[modernism]], [[liberalism]], or [[radicalism]]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[twilight zone]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1949&lt;br /&gt;
|the realm of imagination that seems impossible but is difficult to disprove, and which challenges ordinary views of reality; also the terminator between night and day on a planetary body&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Downgraded Conservative Terms ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
These conservative terms are less significant:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable sortable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!Term&lt;br /&gt;
!Origin date&lt;br /&gt;
!Comments&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|byzantine&lt;br /&gt;
|1794&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The usage here -- in sense of complex governmental rules -- probably developed later.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|eleemosynary&lt;br /&gt;
|1616&lt;br /&gt;
|relating to charity&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[entropy]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1868&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[filibuster]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1851&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|incandescent&lt;br /&gt;
|1794&lt;br /&gt;
|bright and radiant, conquering darkness, precursor to the invention of the incandescent lamp (light bulb)&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|luddite&lt;br /&gt;
|1811&lt;br /&gt;
|one who opposes and even destroys technological advances&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|media&lt;br /&gt;
|1923&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|[[milquetoast]]&lt;br /&gt;
|1933&lt;br /&gt;
|timid and unassertive; easily persuaded or exploited&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|normalcy&lt;br /&gt;
|1920&lt;br /&gt;
|related to the election of [[Warren G. Harding]] by the largest margin yet in history&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|ne'er-do-well&lt;br /&gt;
|1736&lt;br /&gt;
|&amp;quot;an idle worthless person&amp;quot; - Merriam-Webster&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|reticent&lt;br /&gt;
|1834&lt;br /&gt;
|restrained in expression, presentation, or appearance&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|self-indulgence&lt;br /&gt;
|1753&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|smart aleck&lt;br /&gt;
|1856&lt;br /&gt;
|an obnoxiously conceited and self-assertive person with pretensions to being superior to others. Etymology: Aleck, nickname for Alexander &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smart%20alec Smart Aleck Merriam-Websters]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sources ==&lt;br /&gt;
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*[http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ Merriam-Webster dictionary]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://dictionary.reference.com/ Dictionary.com]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== See also ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Essay:Conservapedia's Law]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Essay:Surprising Dates of Origin for Terms]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Linguistic Analysis of Candidates]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Conservative Bible Project]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Conservatism}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{Conservapedia}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Essays]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservative Bible]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Featured articles]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Adolf_Hitler&amp;diff=799569</id>
		<title>Talk:Adolf Hitler</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Adolf_Hitler&amp;diff=799569"/>
		<updated>2010-07-31T01:11:43Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Proof He's An Atheist */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive1]] &lt;br /&gt;
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==Improvement Proposals==&lt;br /&gt;
*'''''Due to vandalism, please post ''MAJOR'' improvement proposals here, in this section. '''''&lt;br /&gt;
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I know you are keen to point out other things, but could the summary maybe mention that he was also ultimately responsible as the commander of the German army for a large number of war crimes, including the execution of POWs, the leveling of civilian cities and the extermination squads killing whole civilian villages. Could we mention that his main philosophy was that enemies of the German people do not possess any rights, which even applied to citizens of Germany. And he did not only use &amp;quot;threat, intimidation, and outright violence&amp;quot; but he had brilliant polemic propaganda. He was, in the beginning elected in a democratic election. He was grossly misunderstanding and abusing scientific theories (Evolution theory may be the most known one which he perverted, but there are other branches of science as well, like medicine).&lt;br /&gt;
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I suggest a summary like this: After gaining power trough polemics and tactics in politics, he systematically undermined the constitution and the civil rights. With his power growing he used increasingly violence and threats. His philosophy was governed by the hate toward enemies of the German people, which he defined by race, religious or political attitude. He was an antisemitist, and explicitely hated Jews. He was responsible for the killings of millions in concentration camps and for war crimes like the use of chemical weapons, execution of POWs, use of extermination squads in conquered regions, and sieges against civilian cities. He defined the term &amp;quot;racial hygiene&amp;quot; in a perversion of science under which marriages between German and non Germans or German Jews had been restricted and which he used to justify killings of disabled and other people (the largest group being the Jews).&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Stitch75|Stitch75]] 00:31, 15 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Path to power ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I see that the Hayek quote got back. So, the paragraph now explains in detail, but briefly, what van Papen did, what Hitler did, what Hindenburg did, all referring to actual events. &lt;br /&gt;
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Then the article quotes Hayek out of context, and unrelated to the rest, to the effect that its is all just the socialists fault. I guess this means Conservapedia thinks that good ordinary Germans are and cannot not be blamed for what happened in the Third Reich. Is this true? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 8:40 (AEST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:It will be integrated.  Hayek is the historical narrator here. Here's more regarding Roosevelt:&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Whatever you do don't integrate it there. It is ruining the article. All paragraphs of the article except for the introduction contain historical facts and no significant interpretion. The paragraphs, The Beginning Of His Political Life, Beer Hall Putsch, Path to Power, Consolidation of Power, Holocaust, 1944 Assassination Attempt, Marriage, and Death all are fairly factual, and the Hayek quote is the only part of it offering a interpretation. If you want to discuss Hayek's contribution to the  discussion on the causes of the Third Reich, do it somewhere else, but not in the factual account. Make an article, introduce a section at the end, whatever. And then, citing Hayek as only scholar with an opinion on this issue is also insufficient. Numerous history wars were fought about this one. [[User:Order]] 31 July, 11:30&lt;br /&gt;
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::&amp;quot;The system he (FDR) blundered us into is more like the managed and bureaucratized, state supported system of Germany before World War I than our own traditional order. Before his regime we lived in a system which depended for its expansion upon private investment in private enterprise. Today we live in a system which depends for its expansion and vitality upon the government. This is a pre­war European importation ­ imported at the moment when it had fallen into complete disintegration in Europe. ...Americans trapped in the economic disasters and the political quarrels of every nation on earth and a system of permanent militarism closely resembling that we beheld with horror in Europe for decades, bureaucrats swarming over every field of life and the President calling for more power, more price­fixing, more regulations and more billions. Does this look like the traditional American scene? Or does it not look rather like the system built by Bismarck in Germany in the last century and imitated by all the lesser Bismarcks in Europe? ...No, Roosevelt did not restore our economic system. He did not construct a new one. He substituted an old one which lives upon permanent crises and an armament economy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:Actually, we already had this discussion, how the ''real'' anti-Semites &amp;amp; racists came from the former territorries of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  [[Franz Leopold Neumann]] of the Frankfurt School of [[critical thinking]] and Chief Nurmberg Prosecution Researcher said it clearly, and most would agree (exept brainwashed Americans who believed wartime Hollywood propaganda and still do), and that is, Germany was the last place in Europe that anyone ever expect the Holocaust to take place.  And that is because nowhere in Europe had Jews been accepted and made as much social progress as in Germany.  The real fact is, it is Germany's lack of development as a Democracy that would respect everybody's rights including minorities, and the lack of citizen participation and involvement, and not racism, is how a foreigner like Hitler could get in power, import his racist ideas from Austro-Hungary which were not commonly held in Imperial or Wiemar Germany, and carry out the program he did. &lt;br /&gt;
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:And as Hayek points out, it is the Socialist who snuffed out any feelings for, or movement toward, a liberal democracy ''prior to WWI''.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:05, 30 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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First, what has FDR to with this discussion? Other than Germany wasn't the only country with a planned economy during WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
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Second, the Emperor and his political allies weren't to fond about liberal democracy either. &lt;br /&gt;
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Third, we had the discussion that they were all Austrians, and is was already debunked, because many of the main centers of Nazi support were in the Lutheran North of Germany. &lt;br /&gt;
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Fourth, don't hide all the time behind Hayek. His work is definitely interesting, especially because he was neither conservative nor socialist, but states in his work &amp;quot;Why I am not a conservative&amp;quot;, that he is an (old-school) liberal, which exists in a different political dimension. Anyway, whatever Hayek might have said, the question is what you think about the matter. Hayek isn't a Conservapedia editor, you are, and you took his sentence out of context, and put it there. So, what is you opinion on this matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, do you say that the Third Reich was Austrian Catholic Socialist venture, and the Germans had no part in it?&lt;br /&gt;
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And as an aside, I'd like to ask you if you are by any chance of North German Lutheran National Conservative descent? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 11:26&lt;br /&gt;
:So the fact Hayek stated he was not a conservative still does not place fascism at the polar end as an opposite of Communism and Socialism. We are writing historical narrative. We are using primary source, eyewitness accounts of educated and objective observers, not wartime propagandists. A lie that was told in 1933 or 1943, whether it was told by [[Josef Goebbels]], the US [[Office of War Information]], the Hollywood [[Screen Writers Guild]] or [[Franklin Roosevelt]] is as much a lie today as it was in 1933 or 1943. I'm sorry, I make no appologies for this. Facts are facts. We need to explain to the youth of the planet (a) what happened, and (b) ''why'' it happened. Sourcing, and the ''credibility'' of sourcing is paramount. Simply because a myth has been handed down by popular culture or proven liars means nothing. In fact, we have every obligation to correct the record. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:41, 30 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* What has FDR to do with this matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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* I am not sure to which lie you refer? Can you be precise? Do you mean to say that it is a lie that a broad section of German society was bearing responsibility for the Third Reich, and not just a group of Austrian catholic crypto-socialists? Can you answer this please?&lt;br /&gt;
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* I never said that because Nazism wasn't socialist, it must have been conservative. To the contrary. And I didn't say that Socialism was the anti-thesis of Nazism. And therefore good. I repeatedly said that it was neither socialist, nor conservative, and that communism and Nazism were both totalitarian. I said it repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. So don't make stuff up. But just because they were both totalitarian doesn't mean that they are the same.&lt;br /&gt;
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* The article was factual, until you added the Hayek quote giving an interpretation by Hayek. What you report isn't an eyewitness account, but the interpretation of a contemporary.  I agree that should tell the youth first what happened. And that is exactly why the Hayek quote is at it a wrong place, because it not describing a factual event, it is interpretation.  Feel free to add a section on the &amp;quot;history wars&amp;quot; that discussed the causes of the Third Reich. However, I see no need to single out Hayek as only scholar who had something to contribute to the discussion. Other scholars were contemporaries too, and have made equally credible contributions. &lt;br /&gt;
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* And finally, I am still curious if are by any chance of North German Lutheran National Conservative descent? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 13:36&lt;br /&gt;
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#FDR &amp;amp; Hitler articles are part of the WWII series.&lt;br /&gt;
#We're actually not that far off on the [[political spectrum theory]] aspects of National Socialism; the tradional telling is Communism &amp;amp; Fascism are polar opposites.  This isn't what happened.  Two extreme factions of an anti-God ideology got in a big dispute, and 55 million people--many not sympathetic to either side--got killed in the process.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:45, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* What has FDR to do with which parts of the German society bears responsibility?&lt;br /&gt;
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* Nazism wasn't anti-god. Sure, Hitler wasn't what you would a good Christian, and he was anti-clerical when it interfered with his business, but he was a theist, and Nazism as ideology was in favor of &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;. Unlike its socialist roots, this principle has never been been amended. Before you get all excited, I do know that the Nazi view of Christianity is fundamentally different from what the main Churches of today teach. I don't not say that all Christians are Nazis, but just that Nazism wasn't anti-God. &lt;br /&gt;
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* I never said that they are polar opposites, and the article didn't say it either. But just because they are not polar opposites, doesn't means that they are the same. [[User:Order]] 31 July, 15:00&lt;br /&gt;
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::One of the very important aspects of National Socialism is, Nazi's were enlightend Socialists who got thier enlgihtened, athiestic doctrines from Socialsim.  This enlightened, athiestic doctrine, i.e. to overthrow the existing order, or to promote &amp;quot;change&amp;quot; in social organization and institutions that challenged the power of the church, and exisitng Christian morality, such as the commandment to love thine enemies, the Nazi's got from their Socialist roots.&lt;br /&gt;
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::Socialism preached hate and envy, and destruction of alleged &amp;quot;oppressors;&amp;quot; Christianity, or the &amp;quot;old social order&amp;quot; preached tolerence and acceptance of all, Greek and Jew alike. This is where Jewish doctine and Christian doctrine separate--Jews adhered to the old Mosaic command to love thine friend and hate thine enemy.  Christian doctrine, or the &amp;quot;established order&amp;quot; taught &amp;quot;love thine enemies&amp;quot;, even those who oppose themselves.  When God was rejected wholesale in the [[French Revolution]], and Marx &amp;amp; Darwin substituted man having dominion over the earth (as in both Hebrew &amp;amp; Christian scriptures), with the doctrine of ''Natural Selection of '''Favored Races''''', [[class hate]] and [[class war]], and the doctrine that man is an animal, these doctines were applied to those (&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;whom it was percieved&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;) promoted the doctrines. IOW, since man is an animal, if you can kill a dog, you can kill a man. And there is no consequences, final judgement, or higher power to answer to.  '''''It is the enlightened doctrine of Natural Selection of Favored Races being applied in its most logical, and rational, form.'''''  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:47, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* First, it  Nazi apologetic to say that Nazism is the most logical and rational. What essential say is that everybody who doesn't share your views '''must''' kill other people based on race. This is a call for genocide, as I see it. And excuses them. Because you say that there is only one logical conclusion, the Nazis had no choice. Which is not true, because they had a choice. You did put into quotes, so I don't know who said it, but since you post it without comment, I have to assume that it also your opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
:*I didn't say this at all.  I said Nazism is the natural consequence and outgrowth of enlighten Socialism.  That is, more specifically, Naxism is the natural consequence of ''both'' the [[Enlightenment]] and [[Karl Marx]], (and [[Darwinism]], an enlightened subfield of 19th century thought).  Let me put it quite specifically, it is a straight line of deductive reasoning from the Enlightenment which caused the overthrow of the ''Ancien Regime'' to the Holocaust.  There are no divergent paths.  It is the natural process and outgrowth of logical thought along that path.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::What you say is that Nazism was unavoidable, it was the logical consequence of the 19th century. This lets all the people of the hook who helped the Nazis to power in the 1930; this lets all the people of the hook who imprisoned, tortured, and killed people during the Third Reich, and it lets all the people off who invaded other countries an bombed and burned their population in WWII. Because it was inevitable in your reasoning. This a very extreme position withing the already disputed Sonderweg theory, and generally rejected, even by other adherents of the Sonderweg theory. It is generally accepted that some important people had the choice to act differently, but they didn't, and if they had acted different, history would be different as well. [[User:Order]] 2 August, 12:26&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Not at all. What I am saying is worshipping at the altar of science, logic, and reason, in lieu of God, is what the progressive development of 19th century ''thought'' was all about.  And yes, destruction is unavoidable when secularism rejected the Jewish God, that is to say, Jehovah - as a Jewish conspiracy, which is what led [[Marie Antoinette]] to the gallows.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Can you point us to an [[atheism|atheist]] who reject all gods, because they think that it is all a jewish conspiracy? Russel? Dawkins? Or Sam Harris? I guess there is none. They reject gods, because they think that they are inconsistent with what they assume to know about the world. Just because you don't like them, and maybe disagree with their reasoning, doesn't mean that you have to vilify them and make up reasons for their atheism, that are not true. The &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;, advocated by the Nazis, didn't think that it was all a conspiracy, but they thought, that Christ original message, was corrupted by Jews and jewish thought. [[User:Order]] 3 august, 10:00&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I think most of the Nazi's writers certainly make that case, and some point to earlier, 19th century writers to support their arguments.  All of them, Hitler &amp;amp; Hess in ''Mien Kampf'', Goebbels, several others all make this central agrument.  In particular, read the outline of Hitler's unpublished second book, editied by Joachim Fest, tentative title was ''The Monumental History of Mankind''.  It's unmistakeable, &amp;quot;Judah&amp;quot; is responsible for all the planet's problems since time immemorial according to Hitler.  Folks like Voltaire, Marx, and Darwin just paved the path for Hitler &amp;amp; Hess (actually Rudolf Hess did write most of ''Mein Kampf''), Alfred Rosenberg, Houston Stuart Chamberlain, ''et al''.  Betrand Russell and Vladimir Lenin are simply first cousins of this line of &amp;quot;intellectual thought.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:20, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::And I didn't deny that the Nazis and their &amp;quot;Positive Christianity&amp;quot; did blame Jews, to the contrary I '''did'' actually say it. Problem is &amp;quot;Positive Christianity&amp;quot; is theist, not atheist. [[User:Order]] 3 August, 11:35&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You're going to have to prompt my memory with this one, I really have been away from most of these primary sources since the late 1970s.  A link might help, too.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::And just because secular athiesm has unavoidable consequence does not mean at all that that those consequences are justified.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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::::I didn't mean to say that you justified the consequence, I meant to say that it was inevitable, such that in the end no p[erson is personally responsible for the committed crimes.[[User:Order]] 3 august, 10:00&lt;br /&gt;
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* Second. Did you call Nazism enlightened? Just because they respected private property, and sold human beings as raw material to the companies to keep their production running?  &lt;br /&gt;
:*Yes. Nazi's were enlightened atheists who viewed Christianity, as it had been viewed since the time of Voltaire, as a Jewish conspiracy which the Jews themselves did not beleive in.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::(1) What has Voltaire to do with the matter? (2) As is said on this page already, Hitlers view was apparently that the true theistic faith that later became Christianity was corrupted by Jews, but he didn't reject the notion of a god.  He wanted a religion that was cleansed from the jewish influences.  But even if he wasn't an atheist, he still was a bad person. Bin Laden isn't an atheist either. Why are you hung up about proving that he is an atheist, if he said himself that he wasn't. [[User:Order]] 2 August 00:08 (AEST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::See above.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::This really is a digression, some atheists who do not worship Jehovah worship self or Satan as their god.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Third. Even if you keep repeating it, it is wrong to call a movement that had the inscription &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; on their belt when went out to war atheist, or even anti-God. And how do you explain the following sentence from their party program &amp;quot;Die Partei als solche vertritt den Standpunkt eines positiven Christentums, ohne sich konfessionell an ein bestimmtes Bekenntnis zu binden.&amp;quot; Doesn't strike me as anti-God. And I repeat it again, in case you didn't get it, this I do not say that their view of Christianity is in any way compatible with your view on Christianity. &lt;br /&gt;
:*The old &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; argument.  Actually, that was the inscription on the Imperial German belts '''''in the Erste Welt Krieg'''''; the Nazi's substituted the swastika, and later brought back the old imperial inscription.  Further, if you look, it is quotation from the Hebrew scriptures: &amp;quot;Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for '''God is with us'''.&amp;quot; [http://biblebrowser.com/isaiah/8-10.htm] And there is a famous photograph of none other than Ernest Hemingway with a First World War (i.e. no swastika) &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot;  belt buckle in the 1930s.  Do an internet search if you want to see it. Finally, if you're reaching for this argument, it means you're running out of gas.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::* It seem like you can buy those belt buckles of the internet. I don't want to post neo-nazi sites on this page, but google for ''' &amp;quot;gott mit uns&amp;quot; hakenkreuz''', and you will find where you can buy them. &lt;br /&gt;
:::*For the second time &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; is (a) from the Hebrew scriptures, and (b) from Imperial Germany.  Using this logic, we should abandoned the Hebrew scriptures because the Nazi's ripped them off.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:56, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I am not sure how long will take until it get through to you, but I still didn't say that Christianity is Nazism. And I also did not say that Christianity is using Nazi symbols. I said that Nazis used references to God. And that many Nazis, and among them quite likely Hitler himself, were theists. This means that they weren't atheists. You might know that &amp;quot;theist&amp;quot; is not the same as being a &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot;. And you might also know that not being a &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot; following your particular interpretation of the scripture doesn't mean that you are an &amp;quot;atheist&amp;quot;. The Nazis advocated &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;, something which should be different from your version of Christianity, but which is still decidedly theist. This is something different from saying that Christians are Nazis. What is so difficult to understand about that? you are barking up the wrong tree. For days. And I am telling you for days. [[User:Order]] 1 August, 23:58&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Ok, this argument is difficult for obvious reason.  Hitler certainly did not accept the existence or soveriegnty of the Jewish God, Jehovah.  Neither did Hitler accept the old Nordic gods like Wotan, despite some rumors (Ludendorf perhaps did).  Hitler may have believed in some sort of Providence, as Menachim Begin referred to, also.  Who is this &amp;quot;Providence&amp;quot;?  IMHO, it is was most likely Satan, however if Hitler were here, and if you asked him, he'd probably most certainly deny it and laugh, as most Hollywood movie producers would laugh also at the same question.  &lt;br /&gt;
:::::So, we're at the crossroads in examining where a person may actually be admitting to some divine supernatural being greater then themselves that they are in subservience to.  Most spiritually decieved people never even get this far, laboring under the notion that they themselves are god, i.e. that their life purpose is to serve themself.  Now, if a deluded soul arrives at the point where they recognize a supernatural power apart from themself, more powerful than themself, and to whom they owe some sort of debt even, and at the same time pointedly denying this supernatural power is Jehovah, for all intents and purposes we can conclude they are avowed Satanists.  So the only remaining question is, when Hitler survived the July 20, 1944 assassination attempt, and Goebbels convinced Hitler Providence intervened, did he really believe it, or was he just going along with another propaganda scheme?  &lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Whatever you conclude from all this, you're not going to find a very widely accepted doctrine, even among Nazi party members. The vast majority of Nazi party members, and even sympathetic non-party members, were simply garden variety athiestic socialists, who would laugh at the idea they worshipped and/or served Satan.  Yes, there were occultists, like Himmler and many top Nazi's, but the vast majortiy of the public just looked on this behavior not very different from the seances [[Hillary Clinton]] used to hold on the [[White House]] roof.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:40, 6 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::*And what about point 24 in the progam of the NSDAP? About &amp;quot;positive christianity&amp;quot; [[User:Order]] &lt;br /&gt;
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* Thanks for proving my point. I said: '''I do know that the Nazi view of Christianity is fundamentally different from what the main Churches of today teach''', but you still could help giving me the spiel that Nazism and Christianity is different. Read my postings for a change, instead of making stuff. It seems that you can only argue against stuff I didn't say. [[User:Order]] 1 August, 11:23&lt;br /&gt;
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:*Wikipedia, believe it or not, has a good article on Hanns Kerrl. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Kerrl]  This could be expanded upon, and I hope to do so here in CP.  For now, here's a quote from Hitler in ''Tischgesprache'', 14th December 1941 Midday, &lt;br /&gt;
::*&amp;quot;Kerrl, with the noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....Pure Christianity...is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics.&amp;quot; [p. 145-146]  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:38, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Nice quote. Of course there is a dispute about the &amp;quot;Tischgespraeche itself. whether they took place in the form Kerrl reported. But lets no go down this road. Lets take it at face value. It say that he doesn't like the Christian message of forgivenes and compassion. And guess what, that is what I told now already countable time myself. So why do you keep on hammering this point?&lt;br /&gt;
* Actually, a very nice quote. Because he actually says that he reject Bolshevism wholeheartedly. That the he sees a Bolshevistic aspect in Christianity, and that it is exactly this aspect that is incompatible with Nazism. This quote proves that the Fuehrer himself believed that bolshevism and Nazism were incompatible. You made my point, Rob. Thanks.  [[User:Order]] 1 August 14:00&lt;br /&gt;
:*Yes. Nazism simply replaced the word &amp;quot;bourgeois&amp;quot; in [[Marxist]] rhetoric, with &amp;quot;Jewish&amp;quot;, but all the other rhetoric remained the same (incidentally, the [[DNC]] does this very same thing, instead of &amp;quot;rich Jew&amp;quot;, they simply use &amp;quot;The Rich.&amp;quot;)  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 23:30, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
You didn't answer one my questions, and I am still curious: Are you by any chance of Conservative Lutheran North German descent? [[User:Order|Order]] 23:35, 20 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:I am of mixed race: 50% German 50% Slavic.  I was raised Catholic, but today am moreless a Dispensationalist Christian.  Some roots come from Stetin (Szczecin) which was mixed German/Polish &amp;amp; defintiely devout Catholic when they arrived in America; others come from Slovakia.  And there were &amp;quot;mixed marriages&amp;quot; in the US, i.e. my mothers father was Lutheran.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:08, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
===contemporaneous corroboration===&lt;br /&gt;
Ok, returning to Hayek, whom we use a 1945 quote, let's look at a 1940 quote from a Socialist publication during the [[Phoney War]] which says virtually the same thing Hayek said after Hitler blew his brains out:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;'''From 1905 to 1940'''&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
:'''The downfall of bourgeois democracy in Europe did not begin with Hitler. Hitler is a result not a cause'''. The crisis of Europe first showed itself in the Russian revolution of 1905. That it was a world crisis and not a European crisis was proved by the course of the war in 1914. That war neither ended nor made the world safe for democracy. '''The characteristic feature of the period 1918-39 was the destruction of democracy''' in country after country, with or '''without the violent defeat of the socialist movement''', and the steady preparation for the second imperialist war. '''Without socialism, the war of 1939''', Hitler victory or no Hitler victory, '''must inevitably mean the complete destruction of democracy''' all over Europe, the development of the totalitarian state in America, and still further battles for the re-division of the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:'''The question that faces us, therefore, as Marxian socialists, is to estimate soberly, at this critical moment, what are the possibilities for the socialist revolution''', the only force that can check the descent into the abyss and reverse the process of disintegration. The possibility of an early Hitler victory, the tremendous power displayed by the German military machine, the inevitable demoralization of the anti-Hitler forces in Germany by his uninterrupted march of success – these things undoubtedly have altered the former perspective of a long drawn-out war ending in immediate revolution. Let us, however, before we speculate on the future, examine the past.&lt;br /&gt;
*Source:[http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/marxists/history/etol/newspape/ni/vol06/no04/editorial.htm#s1 ''Blitzkrieg and Revolution''], An Editorial, From New International, Vol.6 No.4, May 1940, pp.83-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And here is the Hayek quote:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;By the time Hitler came to power, liberalism was dead in Germany. And it was socialism that had killed it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Analysis of comparison;''' while Hayek uses the term &amp;quot;liberalism&amp;quot;, the ''New International'' editorial uses &amp;quot;democracy.&amp;quot;  In both, they are talking about the same thing, and they both make reference to the fact that Socialism survived the destruction of liberal democracy.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I guess the highlighting is by you and not by the ''New International''. Where in the text by the socialist publication do they say that they destroyed liberalism or democracy? To the contrary, the article even suggests that without socialism democracy will be destroyed, and the writer even argues that socialists are the only movement capable of saving democracy. Take for example: ''Without socialism, the war of 1939 must inevitably mean the complete destruction of democracy''. No Socialism, no democracy. According the the ''New International''. The fragment that you quoted tell that democracy got destroyed, and then even claims that the Marxist Socialist are the only force that can reverse the process of disintegration. This quote shows clearly that even the Socialist disagree with your interpretation of the Hayek quote. I am not sure why you like to quote material that proves my point. [[User:Order]] 2 august 10:00 (AET)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::The question simply is over blame.  Hayek says socialism destroyed liberalism; the Socialist publication says &amp;quot;The characteristic feature of the period 1918-39 was the destruction of democracy in country after country, with or without the violent defeat of the socialist movement.&amp;quot;  Of course they are not going to take the same position as Hayek, i.e. that they caused it.  But they are observing the same phenomenea, that liberal democracy faded, and socialism survived.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 20:11, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:So all you wanted to say it that democracies in 1920/30s democracies in Europe failed. I don't need Hayek or the New International to tell that. In Italy, Germany, Spain, Russia, and even in Poland and Austria, democracy wasn't going too well. If this is what you want to say both quotes aren't that great to make that point. Given that the other paragraphs in the article are referring to actual events, and not to interpretations from 30 years later, or from a contemporary opinion pieces, you should refer to events in the other countries to make your point.  [[User:Order]] 2 august 18:00&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::A reading of both documents is illuminating (and other materials could support it, too).  We extracted just one sentence from Hayek, but the whole paragraph sheds even more light, and other quotes, too. Hayek says something to the effect of &amp;quot;fascism is the result when people realize Communism does not work&amp;quot; (to put it another way, Socialism, which evolves into Communism, does not bring democracy, it brings fascism).  ''The New International'' quote above says the same thing, &amp;quot;Hitler is a result not a cause.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 12:58, 2 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is agreed that, if not the idea of fascism, then at least the rise of fascism in Europe was a reaction to communism, especially to the rise of Bolshevism in the Soviet Union. But even for that their are better quotes to find that support this. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what we have now are eight sections on Hitlers life. Look at them one by one:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*  ''The Beginning Of His Political Life'': 2 paragraphs, both on fact and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Beer Hall Putsch'': 2 paragraphs on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Path to Power'' 2 paragaphs on fact and events. And '''one''' sentence of interpretation, the Hayek quote. &lt;br /&gt;
* ''Consolidation of Power'': 4 paragraphs on fact and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Holocaust'': 2 paragraphs on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''1944 Assassination Attempt'': 1 paragraph on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Marriage'' : 1 paragraph on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Death'' :: 1 paragraph on facts and events. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Altogether 15 paragraphs on facts and events, and one single unrelated sentence that says only indirectly what you actually want to say, namely that fascism was a reaction to Bolshevism. This is not the way to go. The right thing to do would be to remove the Hayek quote from where it is, and if you insist on discussing the causes, a separate section on what scholars said about the causes. And Hayek isn't the only scholar you should mention. Taylor, Turner, Dawidowicz and even Goldhagen come to mind, and there are numerous others. But an isolated blurb, whose meaning isn't obvious after first reading, isn't the way to go.  [[User:Order]] 6 august 10:20&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, to say fascism is a &amp;quot;reaction&amp;quot; can be somewhat misleading.  What we know is, that communism and fascism ''do not'' represent polar opposites; fasism is the end result of a ''process'' who's original aim is that socialist utopia called 'communism'.  The process goes something like this: a liberal society embraces socialism; socialism smothers liberalism (the socialist ideal of the collective being greater than the individual stamps out progress on the road to the Rights of Man); socialism's ultimate goal is communism, but when the people realize communism is only a dream, fascism is the end result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Where does 'reaction' implies polar opposites? Where? Every person in his right mind knows that both were totalitarian. [[User:Order]] &lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem with this one is the usual misinformation taught at the junior high school level in  definition of &amp;quot;reactionary;&amp;quot; while on one level, fascim indeed was a &amp;quot;reaction&amp;quot; to communism, it was actually part of a progressive process, not a reactionary polar opposite.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:There are no polar opposites, liberalism devolves into socialism, socialism evolves into communism, and communism ultimately evolves into fascism.  I have another eyewitness source who uses the phrase &amp;quot;Red fascism.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:20, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You are applying the cold-war and 1980's US definition of &amp;quot;Liberal&amp;quot;, because actual Liberals of that time, and Hayek is a prime example, would  strongly disagree with you. They would probably hit you with a stick. Liberals like Hayek were firmly the opposed to both socialism and fascism, because both were totalitarian. Also it is provably wrong to say that people first embraced socialism, before they became fascists. Many embraced fascism right away, from being national conservative, or monarchist, or whatever other -ism you had in that time. Often out of fear of Bolshevism. [[User:Order]]  6 august 11:30&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I agree the contemporary, popular use of the term &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; is a misnomer, particularly in the United States.  The correct term is &amp;quot;socialist,&amp;quot; even with its US shading to mean &amp;quot;treasonous,&amp;quot; which is becoming more apparant as time goes by.  It is unfortunate, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman, and Boris Yeltsin, all [[classical liberal]]s, did somewhat rehabitilate the term in the 1980s &amp;amp; early 90s, but the old perjoritives all came back to stick (most probably through Rush Limbaugh and the lifting of the [[Fairness Doctrine]], which is very well explained in CP's entry).  FWIW, it looks like we're stuck with the pejoritive, contemporary American meaning of the term liberal.  Of course, the [[MSM]] and the [[DNC]] have been of little help in clarifing its real meaning.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==von Papen==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I see that the Hayek quote is still in there. I also saw that you portrayed the period of imperial Germany as one in which it was a socialist paradise. And also there you quote Hayek. Hayek would hit you with a stick for this, because he knew perfectly well that this is plain ridiculous. Imperial Germany was Bismarck, Kulturkampf, Nationalismus, Demokratiedefizit, Sozialistenerlaesse, Sozialversicherung, Flottenausbau, Wilhelm Zwo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And when it comes to the beginnings of the Third Reich you might want check which party van Papen belonged to, which parties did vote, under pressure but they did, in favour of his empowerment laws, which party the rest of Hitlers first cabinet belong too, which parties were part of the Harzburg front, the political background of Hugenberg, Schacht, and others who actually helped Hitler to power. You can impossibly claim that it was all just a socialist endeavor. But it seems that fact don't count here, while I had hope that we could keep spin out of the a subject as important as Hitler. Peace be upon you. [[User:Order|Order]] 20:08, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Interesting premise; one of the charges against von Papen at Nuremberg was he was part of the Nazi conspiracy, but as you just pointed out, he was never a member of the Nazi Party.  Why can't these things ever be discussed dispassionately?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:32, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Exactly, my point. He wasn't a member of the Nazi party, he was a prominent member of the Zentrum party, a Catholic Party, and he still helped Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:06, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So, dare I ask the question, is it unfair to refer to him as a &amp;quot;Nazi War Criminal&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 23:26, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
It might be unfair, not sure what the Nuremberg Trial decided.  Did I call him &amp;quot;Nazi War Criminal&amp;quot;? To the contrary, the point is that he probably isn't, but that he was a fairly normal German centrist politician, who still helped Hitler into power.  [[User:Order|Order]] 23:38, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Truth is, he really had a disdain for Hitler, and Hitler didn't care much for von Papen either.  And their mutual distrust and resentment had little to do with politics.  It was a class difference.  Von Papen regarded Hitler as an ill-mannered low-life, and Hitler thought von Papen an artistocratic snob.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:21, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:There is famous newsreel footage with no audio of [[Treaty of Munich]] that reveals the difference between the two.  Von Papen and Hitler are leading the guests which include Ciano &amp;amp; Chamberlain into a room.  Hitler plops himself down in a chair, while von Papen observes the diplomatic nicities of remaining standing until all the guests are in the room and seated.  Hitler clearly is embarassed the moment he sits down and sees von Papen remaining standing, and its all caught on film.  He knows he looks crude, rude, selfish, and inexperienced in just simple manners, let alone protocol, or &amp;quot;high class&amp;quot; manners. And it's almost as if he feels deliberately tricked by von Papen into making himself look bad. Very revealing, if uyou ever get a chance to see it. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:30, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
So, van Papen didn't even like this guy, and still helped him to get to power, and worked for him until Munich. So, we found already one person who wasn't an ideologue but was still working for the third Reich.  [[User:Order|Order]] 00:36, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::So the Foreign Minster of the Third Riech wasn't even a Nazi, was not one of the 22 Nazi War Criminals at Nuremberg (although history remembers him that way), was found innocent at Nuremberg of being part of the Nazi conspiracy to (a) sieze power (b) make aggresive war (c) etc., although you persist in making that charge. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:03, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Did the Nuremberg trail say that it was a conspiracy? I doubt so. And indeed, van Papen helped Hitler to power, I guess there is little discussion about it. One might argue about his motivation, but seems to not much of a mystery either. [[User:Order|Order]] 04:21, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes it did.  The [[Treaty of Munich]] was a &amp;quot;conspiracy against Peace&amp;quot;, as well as all the other events (re-occupation of Rhineland, Invasion of Poland, etc.)  Then there was &amp;quot;conspiracy to wage aggressive war&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
:One should read the Nuremberg Indictment in its entirety [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count.htm].  It really is not that long.  And it sets out all the major issues to be dealt with prior and afterwards. (One writer has explained why the charge of &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot;, Britian needed it to CYA for thier policy of appeasement, i.e. Britian couldn't live up to treaty obligations because it was a victim of a conspiracy--and von Papen's aquittal addresses that argument).&lt;br /&gt;
:You will see, for example, the Katyn massacre.  Peculiar, isn't it, that while the Western Powers knew this Soviet charge was false, and that indeed one of the Administators of Justice in this case himself was guilty of the charge, allowed it to become part of the historical record (this record, which then was resurrected in the mid 1990's as the model of Administering International Justice for War Crimes); also, after reading the horrors that the Soviet's present, we almost get comic relief at France's idea of Crimes Against Humanity, like plunder of property [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count3.htm#sec8e]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Wine..................................................................7,647,000 hectolitres.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Champagne...................................................87,000,000 bottles&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Beer...................................................................3,821,520 hectolitres&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Various kinds of alcohol.................................1,830,000 hectolitres &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The myth of France as a &amp;quot;Great Power&amp;quot; (or for that matter, a &amp;quot;victim&amp;quot; when France provided more manpower, and more [[GDP]] to the Nazi cause than it did to defend, or liberate, itself, is something that at some point needs to clarified in the English language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Another point, the various charges of &amp;quot;mass deportation of populations&amp;quot;, while Germans were being deported east of the Oder-Niese, the Keelhaul Agreement, the Crimean Taters, the Volga Germans etc. etc. etc. were occuring, has never been addressed (outside of Solzhenitsyn's ''Gulag Archipeligo''), or &amp;quot;systematic malnutrition&amp;quot;, which Lenin &amp;amp; Stalin perfected long before Hitler adopted [[Bolshevik]] methods.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:42, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Treaty of Munich]] happened after the seizure of power. And saying the this treaty was &amp;quot;a conspiracy against peace&amp;quot;, is also something slightly different than claiming that &amp;quot;Nazism is a conspiracy&amp;quot;. And the rest are tangents. The question was still about who helped Hitler to power, not what happened afterwards or elsewhere. And von Papen was still one of the people who brought Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:04, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Unfortunately, all we have is the historical record.  And the Nuremberg trial rendered its verdict.  You are arguing the case that everyone deficient in psychic powers in 1933 is complicit in genocide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not unlike the recent book on IBM; because Nazi's purchased IBM equipment, all the shareholders, employees, and Board of Directors past and present who &amp;quot;did business with the Nazi's&amp;quot; are complicit in genocide.  By this line of argument, if Nazi's purchased Crest Toothpaste and Charmin Toilet Paper, Crest Toothpaste and Charmin Toiler Paper likewise &amp;quot;did business with the Nazi's.&amp;quot;  Don't forget Hitler's shoeshine boy, he must have been involved, too.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:25, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Did I somewhere say that van Papen is responsible for genocide? I agreed that the Nuremberg trial is probably the instance that had to decide on this. So but what you say that that van Papen is as responsible for Hitlers rise to power as Hitler shoe shine boy. Did the shoe shine boy go to Hindenburg and convince him to make Hitler chancellor? I doubt it. What I see that you go on all kinds tangents, just because you are unable to accept the historical fact that there were centrist and conservative politicians who helped Hitler to power. [[User:Order|Order]] 18:44, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's the probelm: Hitler was legally came to power under the then Wiemar Constitution.  He overwhelmingly won a popular election as well.  The Wiemar Constitution wasn't even indigenous, it was imposed as a &amp;quot;liberal reform.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Now, if you are to allege that Hitler, a common scum, came to power outside of some secret Masonic Illuminati cabal that really controls things, and therefore Hitler and the Nazis claim on power was illigimate, we have a problem there.  As it is, Hitler was never invited by the French government to visit Paris anytime from the day he came to power. Why is this? Because he was illigitmate? Because he was outside of a clique of insiders who determine who should hold power?  Do you see where this line of rhetoric is going to lead you?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:31, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You try to get the discussion on all kinds of tangents, like whether the constitution was indigenous, Masonic Illuminati, French inviting Hitler for supper, IBM, Crest tooth paste. Rob, you are alleging all kinds of things that I never said, and that frankly do not even matter. Fact is Hitler came to power under the Weimar constitution. Did I say otherwise? I don't think so. Fact is also that he didn't win a majority of seats, so he needed the help of others. And van Papen was one of then who helped. And Hugenberg another. BTW: While van Papen wasn't found guilty in the Nuremberg trial to be one of the main criminals, he was sentenced to 8 years in prison during denazification for his role as collaborator and enabler. Why is it so hard for you to admit the fact that there were conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. No, you rather talk about Illuminati to not to have admit this simple fact. [[User:Order|Order]] 21:56, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So, welfare queens &amp;amp; labor unions help Bill Clinton get into power, despite the fact he sold them down the river with NAFTA &amp;amp; Welfare Reform.  Do you think they might have voted any different if they knew they'd be &amp;quot;stabbed in the back&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:00, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
For discussing Bill Clinton, go to the entry [[Bill Clinton]]. We are discussing Hitler's path to power. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:02, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:OK. What's wrong with this text: &lt;br /&gt;
:*''After a series of minority cabinets former Chancellor van Papen convinced President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler to become Chancellor in a coalition government with the national conservative party. Van Papen expected the nation would recognize Hitler to be a fraud within a few months in government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seems to say what you want it to say.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No surprise. I wrote it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Problem is still the Hayek quote that you took out of context. It suggests that the path to power was purely a socialist endeavor. However, and I cite you citing me:&lt;br /&gt;
*''After a series of minority cabinets former Chancellor van Papen convinced President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler to become Chancellor in a coalition government with the national conservative party. Van Papen expected the nation would recognize Hitler to be a fraud within a few months in government.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, it wasn't just the socialists who brought Weimar down. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:11, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:What Hayek is saying is liberalism, in the classic sense, was weakened to non-existent to oppose Nazism.  And your use of conservative here likewise is problematic; the titled nobility of Germany, or for that matter all of Europe, is &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; in the European sense.  As we've had this discussion elsewhere, the US Constitution expressly prohibits the government from conferring titles.  So the express meaning of the term here, &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; to refer to von Papen and others is wholely out of context in attempt to draw a parallel to contemporary American conservativism.  &lt;br /&gt;
:Shame on you, Order, I have more respect for you and your skills than this feeble reasoning your pushing.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:19, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Classic liberalism was indeed weakened, and the permanent attacks from both sides of the spectrum didn't help. But where did the liberals go? Some went left, other went right. My use of &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; is fairly consistent with the use by the people in question themselves. The DNVP, the German National People Party, was for example the legitimate successor of the pre-WWI Konservative Partei, the Conservative Party. This is the party that helped Hitler to a majority of seats in parliament. Same holds for von Papen, he was from the conservative wing of the Zentrum party. I said it a few times in this thread already that contemporary US interpretations of 'left' and 'right' don't apply to the 1930s in Germany, so I am not sure what you are complaining about.  And there is no shame in pushing the fact that there were also conservative politicians in Germany who made didn't mind that Weimar failed, who didn't shed a tear when Hitler came to power. One of the lesson of the Third Reich is that if you fail to fix an imperfect democracy for short term political gain, you might end up with something worse in the long run. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:32, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This is an interesting discussion. Truth is, its been many years since I've reviewed any of these source materials in detail.  Likewise I did read von Papen's memoirs many many years ago, and am familiar with his case.  Seems much of this discussion only grabs tidbits from this or that source, usually out of context, so let's make some effort to set the materials before us (incidentally, von Papen was sentenced to 8 years, yet served less than two; and this is not the place to go into why he was tried a second time after being aquited the first time).&lt;br /&gt;
::There's is nothing special about it. The Nuremberg Trials where aimed at the top of the regime, while the Denazification was aimed to determine the involvement of all people who held office, 2.5 million people in the western Germany alone. He probably was sentenced as 'offender'. The majority were judged to be 'followers', or even acquitted. Von Papen obviously wasn't. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:34, 27 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:::He was tried twice because of the outrage over the verdict.  Double jeopardy goes against Anglo-American jurisprudence.  Even the Soviet Judges could not find conspiracy on his part.  And when the poltical situation changed in 1949, so did the second verdict against von Papen.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:38, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The Soviets didn't agree with the judgment of the Nuremberg trial and wrote dissenting Opinion[http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-dissenting-von-papen.html]. The second trial was in a civil court, and I guess it happens also in the US that someone is found not guilty of criminal charges, but gets convicted in civil court nevertheless. But I couldn't find much about the second trial, so I trust you that the second trial was a result of public outrage. I guess that proves that while he might have not been guilty in criminal court, he messed up politically. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:11, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:OK, let's look at the original indictment, and then the Judgement.  Von Papen is indeed charged with all the same things you are charging him with here: &amp;quot;Von Papen Used His Personal Influence To Promote The Accession Of The Nazis To Power. &amp;quot; ''et seqq'' [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-02/nca-02-16-18-index.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Let's look at the Judgement: &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933, in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January;&amp;quot; Wikipedia reports &amp;quot;The central role that Papen played in Hitler's appointment as Chancellor in January 1933 was reflected by Papen's indictment at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trial, though he was acquitted on formal reasons, the tribunal deciding that his &amp;quot;political immoralities&amp;quot; were not under its jurisdiction.&amp;quot;  This of course, is totally false, as the Nuremberg Judgement clearly, clearly states: &amp;quot;The evidence leaves no doubt that von Papen's primary purpose as Minister to Austria was to undermine the Schuschnigg regime and strengthen the Austrian Nazis for the purpose of bringing about Anschluss. To carry through this plan he engaged in both intrigue and bullying. But the Charter does not make criminal such offenses against political morality, however bad these may be. &amp;quot; [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-defendants-von-papen.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Conlcusion: (a) von Papen's &amp;quot;political immortality&amp;quot; (singular), as rendered by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, related to the Anschluss, '''''and not the Nazi's regimes rise to power in Germany.'''''  Further, the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal fails to make any mention whatsoever about any sort of complicity in conspiracy or for that matter anything about his role in helping Hitler gained power. All the Tribunal found, as cited above, is &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; with the final verdict, &amp;quot;The Tribunal finds that von Papen is not guilty under this Indictment, and directs that he shall be discharged.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:So lets get the facts in order before we even discuss making generalizations.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:03, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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So, we still agree that he wasn't one of about 20 people that were found guilty as war criminals in the Nuremberg Trial. Thanks for posting the judgment. The second paragraph of the judgment refers exactly to what we are discussing here.  &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933, in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January, 1933 &amp;quot;. That he was found not guilty for his role in the Anschluss is another matter. That happened a few years later. Thanks again for posting the official judgment which essentially confirms what I said. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:17, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So what was he guilty of as &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; since contrary to ''both'' you ''and'' Wikipedia's claim, the Tribunal found this '''''did not''''' even  constitute an offense against &amp;quot;political morality&amp;quot;, let alone a crime, or conspiracy?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:38, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I still didn't say that he was part of the conspiracy to start an agressive war. And why should we care what Wikipedia says. The tribunal had to determine which people were responsible for the ''aggressive war''. It judged that it could not be established beyond reasonable doubt that von Papen was involved in planning an aggressive war. That is why they acquitted the charges. However, the tribunal found him politically responsible, but that under the charter of the tribunal, they couldn't convict him for &amp;quot;such offenses against political morality, however bad these may be&amp;quot;. Anyway, this all refers to the Anschluss, and we where talking about his involvement in Hitler's path to power. And here the judgment states clearly that von Papen helped Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:59, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Big deal. There was no crime in it.  In fact, Hitler came to power legally.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Now, when the Tirbunal sat down in November 1945, they brought up all this conspiracy stuff about a &amp;quot;siezure of power&amp;quot;; as the trial progressed, it became fairly obvious there may have been &amp;quot;backstairs&amp;quot; dealings, but that how the sytem works, even under the US Constitution.  By the time the verdict was reached, the Judges were faced with the sad fact that Hitler abided by the rules to &amp;quot;sieze power.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:Now many peolple have never been happy with these facts, and wish to condemn Hitler &amp;amp; everybody connected with from his mothers womb for all that followed.  The German people today speak of the &amp;quot;Nazi seizure of power&amp;quot;, obviously to take comfort themeselves in denial because the truth is he came to power Consitutional, by democratic means, and the people voted for him.  But its easier for contemporay Germans to play the role of victim along with everybody else.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then your argument, that somehow everybody involved in his ascention was illigitimate; this really itself sounds like Nazi rhetoric. Cause the root of this arguement is that Hitler was unnapporved by the Jewish-Masonic conspiracy that controls and decides who is legitimate.  And this is the very argument you are putting forward.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:23, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Where do I say that the Nazis seizure of power overcame the German people? Where did I say that it was an illegitimate action? And most important where did I use Nazi rhetoric? Don't make stuff up stuff that I didn't say. Or show me where.&lt;br /&gt;
* As a German myself I can tell you that just a few Germans comfort themselves with the myth that it was an illegal power grab. The failure of Weimar is taught and discussed in great detail, including the decline of liberal democracy, the failure of democrats to work together, the anti-democratic forces on both sides of the spectrum, and also the role (and call it naivety) of von Papen and the likes when it came to Hitler. Don't make up stuff about how the end of Weimar is discussed in Germany.&lt;br /&gt;
* It was about political and moral responsibility all the time. You went on all kind of tangents, like the war tribunal, and whether von Papen was a war criminal. The question wasn't if von Papen was a War Criminal, but if he and other conservative politicians have a share in the political and also moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power.&lt;br /&gt;
* You bring up the in the Illuminati stuff without reason. If your best bet is to bring up weird conspiracies that I didn't mention, your arguments must be poor. And then on top of it you claim that I use Nazi rhetoric. &lt;br /&gt;
* Hitler came to power through legitimate means because he got help from others. And these other were conservative politicians like von Papen and Hugenberg. No need to tell you that Von Papen was Vice-chancellor, and Hugenberg Minister in Hitler first administration. &lt;br /&gt;
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You are unable to admit that the rise of Hitler was not just a socialist venture, but that there were also conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. Maybe you can answer the following question. Who bears a greater political and moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power: Carl von Ossietsky, a  very controversial socialist in the Weimar Republic, who was sentenced for treason in the 1930? Or von Papen who convinced Hindenburg to give Hitler a try? And who helped Hitler to consolidate his power, and who was Vice-Chancellor, when his government put von Ossietsky in a labor camp? The guy who got the Nobel peace price in 1935, or the guy who was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment after the war? The guy who died in 1938 from tuberculosis he got while he was forced to drain swamps, or the guy who died in 1969 of old age in his mansion? The socialist pacifist with a questionable ideology, or the conservative politician with a questionable role during the Third Reich? Not an easy question, but spare us long tangents please, just who bears more responsibility, von Ossietsky or von Papen for Hitler's rise to power? [[User:Order|Order]] 08:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:*''where did I use Nazi rhetoric? ''&lt;br /&gt;
::*In the Nazi view, the [[Treaty of Versailles]] was a Jewish conspiracy that destroyed the monarchy, dismembered Germany, and established a Constitutional Republic.  This &amp;quot;Jewish Conspiracy&amp;quot;, in the Nazi's view, dictated ''who'' the administrative powers in Germany would be, and what German domestic armament policy, and foreign policy would be.  The Nazi's viewed themselves as &amp;quot;seizing power&amp;quot; from this Jewish-Illuminati International bankers conspiracy when Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933.  However, the Nazi's were not strong enough to win the Chancellorship and Parliamentary elections, so it was done in a coalition with other parties, some democratic.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::In the Nazi view, there was a second &amp;quot;seizure of power&amp;quot; after the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; from the International &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot; that &amp;quot;dictated&amp;quot; who would govern Germany; power was seized away from the Nazi's coalition partners when parliamentary rule was ended.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::When the Nuremberg Tribunal met, Prosecutors brought forward some of the Nazi's own rhetoric, how they had &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; in violation of both International conventions under Versailles, and the Weimar Constitution.  Charges of &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot; were leveled, that all involved had violated International conventions under Versailles, and the Weimar Constitution in the Nazi's assent to power in 1933.  The Judges, including Soviet Judges, soon realized, that to render this verdict would be to rubber stamp the validity of Nazi propaganda.  That to adjudicate the Nazi regime as illegitimate from day one would be to validate the Nazi claim that foreigners and International agreements such as Versailles were indeed the controlling instruments that stripped Germany of its sovereignty.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Where do I say any that the Nazi seizes the power from an international conspiracy? Where? Where did I bring up the Illuminati? You say that I use Nazi rhetoric, while I didn't say any of those things. Show me otherwise. This is a challenge.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::To the contrary, I was always pointing to his coalition partners. Do not make up stuff that I never said. Otherwise, show me.[[User:Order|Order]] 19:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You might as well blame a constitutional democracy for Hilter's rise, because that is exactly what happened.  The system was designed for coalition governments in the absence of an absolute majortiy.  Bottomline again, the coalition parnters were not Nazi's; if they were Nazi's they would have quit thier minortiy parties and joined the Nazi party.  But that did not happen.  Instead, once Hitler became Chancellor, he ignored and violated thier rights, too.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::So, did I say otherwise? After the Hitler came to power, some politicians from conservative did actually join the NSDAP. Anyway, bottomline is indeed that his coalition partners weren't Nazi's, but conservative politicians like von Papen. As I said from the beginning of this thread. {{unsigned|Order}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:*''why should we care what Wikipedia says.''&lt;br /&gt;
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::*A few years ago I commented in Wikipedia on the large volume of material being brought over from the German Wiki that persistently referred to the &amp;quot;Nazi seizure of power.&amp;quot;  The Nazi's in fact did not seize power in January 1933, they came to power under provisions of the legitimate Weimar Constitution.  The Nazi's ''did'' seize power from their democratic coalition partners when they ended parliamentary rule.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Contemporary Germans have maintained the that they, too, were victims; that the Nazis came to power illegitimately, when in fact they were supported at the ballot box by many Germans.  They were victimized later, when parliamentary rule ended, and the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; from their coalition partners ''after'' January 1933.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The bottomline, while maintaining the fiction that the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; in January 1933 is comforting to absolve complicity among democratic forces that were coalition partners, it really is nothing more than the Nazi POV.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 15:26, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Did I say any of this? Didn't I say the opposite. I was permanently pointing to Hitlers coalition partners. Don't make stuff up or show me otherwise. Or is this supposed to be proof that Germans at large think that the Hitler came to power illegally, by pointing to an experience you had on Wikipedia a few years ago. If you trust Wikipedia that much, go to the German version of Wikipedia, and what they say about Machtergreifung. I will be edited mostly by German editors, and I doubt that it says that it was an illegal act to get power from back an international conspiracy. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Your point is along the lines that, &amp;quot;Why did von Papen, et al, form a coalition government ''with'' the Nazis, ''against'' the Comintern apparat?&amp;quot;  This question is easy to answer.  While the murderous nature of the Comintern organizations against ''thier'' imaginary enemies was known in 1933, no one knew the Nazis would adopt and apply Bolshevik methods against the Nazis imaginary enemies to the extent that they did after 1933.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 20:32, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Where did I say that von Papen should have sided with the Comintern. Where? It is generally agreed that at the beginning of 1933 there was no need to form a coalition government with the Nazis. The Nazi had just lost their first state elections, and the economy was picking up. Von Papen had to convince Hindenburg. Sure, von Papen probably didn't have the foresight that it would almost cost his life in the Night of Long Knives, nor that it would lead to a total war. But he rather than trying to fix the democracy, he was actively pushing to get somebody into power, who was fairly open about his aims to abolish democracy. Fascism was known, and von Papen knew it too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::So von Papen used democratic means to destroy democracy?  I think you may be mischaracterizing von Papen's political views.  Von Papen was an anti-Communist.  Not all anit-Communists are fascists, however in this instance a coalition between some democratic elements was made with fascists to prevent Soviet-backed Comintern subversion.  You repeatedly speak of &amp;quot;bares responsibiltiy;&amp;quot; the Weimar Constitution itself bares responsibility, it did precisely what it was designed to do.  Hitler was speaking of rebuilding the German military; industrialists &amp;amp; the miltiary liked this idea.  That does not make them racists or advocates of genocide.  That makes them partners in a coalition government with Nazis, nothing more and nothing less.  When the Nazis began diabusing ''thier'' rights, some joined the nationalist movement, some did not.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::In sum, once again, the Tribunal rendered its verdict, not just regarding von Papen, but '''also''' regarding the whole question as to conspiracy &amp;amp; morality around the Nazis and Hitler's rise to power.  What it really does look like is, other than von Papen being Catholic, what crime or moral offense is he guilty of?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::I didn't blame him for being catholic (see below). And the tribunal said in its verdict that Von Papen bears responsibility for the events in that got Hitler into power. The tribunal acquitted Von Papen for other charges. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:42, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::This brings me back to the question:  Who bears more responsibility for the getting Hitler into power: von Papen or Ossietsky? [[User:Order|Order]] 21:44, 27 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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:The question that I posed remains unanswered. Who, in your opinion Rob, has bears more responsibility for Hitler's rise to power. Von Ossietsky or Von Papen. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:20, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Since you keep referring to things I never said, a brief list of thing we did agree on, and a list of things I actually did say.&lt;br /&gt;
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First, we agree that von Papen was&lt;br /&gt;
* a catholic&lt;br /&gt;
* conservative&lt;br /&gt;
* anti-communist&lt;br /&gt;
* member of the Zentrum Party&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't blame him for any of this. If I'd be living in the 1930s it would probably apply to me, since all of my 4 grandparents were catholic, conservative, anti-communist voters of the Zentrum party. There is no blame in that.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, von Papen has responisbility for his deeds. In particular.&lt;br /&gt;
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* Von Papen revoked as Chancellor in June 1932 the ban on SA and SS. &lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was actively pursuing the end of the Schleicher administration in January 1933.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen then gathered support to get Hindenburg to appoint Hitler chancellor in a coalition government.&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was vice-chancellor in Hitler's government.&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was leading the political alliance of national conservative parties in the March 1933 election, which provided Hitler the remaining seats to get a majority in parliament.&lt;br /&gt;
He shares political responsibility for this. We are not talking a criminal charges, but about political responsibility. For the rise and consolidation of Hitlers power, up to the Empowerment laws, or if you like even up to the Night of the Long Knives, when Hitler got von Papen to resign as vice-chancellor. That he wasn't found guilty of war crimes is another issue altogether. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:25, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Where is there a crime in any of this? How are free citizens exercising their rights in a constitutional democracy a moral offense? And given the alternative, for example revoking the ban on SA and SS to counter the Moscow directed murderers is something you fail to consider, let alone discuss.&lt;br /&gt;
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:There is plenty of information available to condemn the Nazi's with.  Using half truths, innuendo, and falsehoods based upon the Nazi's own falsehoods only impugns the integrity of the historical reporter, and makes all his reporting biased and suspect.  Such is the case with Wikipedia right now, and it may not be their own invention, they may actually be just parroting the lies and falsehoods they've inherited.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The point of propagating and expounding these half truths and falsehoods you actually may have articulated in this discussion; it is not to give accurate historical reporting, nor to gather experience and warning signs for future generations.  It is to twist the facts of history, such as we've seen in the Wikipedia articles, to impugn contemporary imagined political opponents, in this case &amp;quot;conservatives.&amp;quot; How is this being done? (a) refusing to admit the godless socialist nazis rose in a marxist revolution against the powers that be, in thier view, the &amp;quot;Jewish International&amp;quot; financiers who destroyed the Hapsburg, Hohenzollern, and Romanov monarchies which had kept the peace for 100 years; (b) blaming the enemies of Communism, the Church and other anti-Communists, for anti-Semitic fascist ideals and intent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The bottomline here is, using the Nazi's own view of themselves, that they were illegitimate outsiders to the Jewish international cabal that wrote the Treaty of Versailles, illegally and by immoral means rose up and seized power from the legitimate powers that be, i.e. the &amp;quot;Jewish financiers&amp;quot; behind the Treaty of Versailles, to put a spin on history with the real intent to attack modern political opponents with, is unnecessary, and potentially very dangerous.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 10:32, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The discussion isn't about Nazi ideology, and I in particular didn't push any Nazi views that involve a Jewish conspiracy (or show me other wise), and this is irrelevant for the discussion for Von Papen, because he wasn't a Nazi in the first place. But your first paragraph is to the point, so i'll respond to that.	 &lt;br /&gt;
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* ''Where is there a crime in any of this?''. I said repeatedly that we are not talking about criminal charges.	 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''How are free citizens exercising their rights in a constitutional democracy a moral offense?'' Everybody bears responsibility for his deeds, even for the legal ones. This also applies also in politics, and there are countless example of immoral but legal behavior in politics.	 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''And given the alternative, for example revoking the ban on SA and SS to counter the Moscow directed murderers is something you fail to consider, let alone discuss.'' Von Papen was the Chancellor of Germany, and he had access to police and army. I hope that we agree that the SA and SS weren't out to enforce the law, but a fascist mob instead. Von Papen didn't use or need the SA and SS to prevent or solve violent crimes by the communist mob. He legalized it to get political backing from the NSDAP for his minority cabinet. 	 &lt;br /&gt;
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All these acts were legal, sure, but Von Papen did it for political reasons, and carries hence political responsibility for these acts. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:01, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Path to Power (Continued) ==&lt;br /&gt;
You are unable to admit that the rise of Hitler was not just a socialist venture, but that there were also conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. Maybe you can answer the following question. Who bears a greater political and moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power: Carl von Ossietsky, a  very controversial socialist in the Weimar Republic, who was sentenced for treason in the 1930? Or von Papen who convinced Hindenburg to give Hitler a try? And who helped Hitler to consolidate his power, and who was Vice-Chancellor, when his government put von Ossietsky in a labor camp? The guy who got the Nobel peace price in 1935, or the guy who was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment after the war? The guy who died in 1938 from tuberculosis he got while he was forced to drain swamps, or the guy who died in 1969 of old age in his mansion? The socialist pacifist with a questionable ideology, or the conservative politician with a questionable role during the Third Reich? Not an easy question, but spare us long tangents please, just who bears more responsibility, von Ossietsky or von Papen for Hitler's rise to power? [[User:Order|Order]] 08:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Tribunal examined all the questions and rendered its verdict.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 14:46, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::The tribunal said that von Papen shares moral and political responsibility for getting Hitler into power. Cool. So I take it as  admission that it was not just socialism was responsible for the end of the Weimar Republic, but that conservative politicians like von Papen also bear some responsibility. The only reasonable thing to do right now would be to remove the Hayek quote, because as it is quoted it suggest otherwise. You can either do it yourself, or unlock the article and I am happy to remove it myself. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You are still reading this in the verdict that are not there.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:51, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Lets get a third person to read the verdict and see if the second paragraph says &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933 in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January, 1933.&amp;quot; and then to look at the end which says &amp;quot;Under the Charter von Papen can be held guilty only if he was a party to the planning of aggressive war&amp;quot; and he was found not guilty of that charge. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:07, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;--&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's the paragraph condensed:&lt;br /&gt;
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:&amp;quot;The evidence leaves no doubt that von Papen's primary purpose as Minister to Austria '''was to undermine the Schuschnigg regime''' and strengthen the Austrian Nazis for the purpose of bringing about Anschluss....he '''engaged in''' both '''intrigue''' and bullying. But the Charter does not make criminal such '''offenses against political morality''', however bad these may be. Under the Charter von Papen can be held guilty only if he was a party to the planning of aggressive war.....&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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::So, we agree that the tribunal did find him not guilty for his role in the Anschluss, since '''offenses against political morality''' do not fall under the charter. That is kind of exactly what I said. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:39, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now, at the moment I am reading the case of [[Helen Scott]], one of several [[Comintern]] opperatives who &amp;quot;engaged in political immorality&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;intrigue&amp;quot; (haven't found any &amp;quot;bullying&amp;quot; yet).  Who was Helen Scott?  Helen Scott was one of several Comintern opperatives who, as an American citizen, was an agent of the Soviet Union ''and '''was appointed to the staff of American prosecutors at the [[Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal]].'''''&lt;br /&gt;
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Care to collaborate on [[Helen Grace Scott Keenan]]?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 10:37, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'll think about it. But I try to stay focussed, and not get into to much at once. Thanks. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:39, 29 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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:You will see on the [[Talk:Munich conference]], for example, we just reviewed other material from the War Crimes Tribunal regarding Nazi infiltration and subversion of the Czech and Slovak regime; here for example, [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-02/], we have evidence of a &amp;quot;Campaign within Czechoslovakia since 1934&amp;quot;; Helen Scott was a member of an organization that was found to be controlled by a foreign government actively seeking the violent removal of the United States Government long before WWII broke out, she was a member of that same organization when she took employment with the United States Government, which was illegal.  And she was the agent of a foreign power when she worked on the staff of the American Prosecutors at Nurermberg.&lt;br /&gt;
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:So, today we have information available that was not avialable for nearly 50 years.  My point is, much of what we know about all of these events needs to be re-analyized. But first we must assemble the facts before we can do a review.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:56, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
:::The Tribunal did not say that.  It said von Papen was &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;The Tribunal finds that von Papen is not guilty.&amp;quot;  Where in any of this is there a quesion of moral responsibiblity?&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::He was found not guilty in the conspiracy to start an aggressive war and the not guilty of a conspiracy to undermine the Austrian government. Did I say otherwise? Can you for once show me where I say either of these. But the judgment also says that he was morally responsible for the Anschluss and the beginnings of the regime, but that couldn't try him for that because it didn't fall under the charter of the tribunal. Please read the judgment carefully. Just because he was acquitted from charges for starting the war, doesn't mean that they acquitted him from blame for his part in Hitler's first administration. To the contrary, the judgment '''explicitly''' states that he shares responsibility for that. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The Nazi's, true to their Socialists roots, viewed themselves in the true Socialist sense of rising up against the powers that be, i.e. in thier view rising up against the Jewish Internaitional bankers conspiracy that killed three monarchies (Hapsburg, Hohenzollern, and Romonov), dismembered Germany, and saddled theme with a war debt.  Marx said the common scum peons, i.e. people like the low life Nazi's would seize power in a Revolution.  In thier view they did just this, they seized power for the Jewish International bankers.  Now to allege then in 1933, at the time of Nuremberg in 1945, or today, that the Nazi &amp;quot;seizure of power&amp;quot; was illigitimate in any sense, is to agree with the Nazi's, because that is exactly how they viewed themselves. They viewed themselves as a rogue regime against &amp;quot;the International Jewish conspiracy.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:19, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::So, what? Where did I say that the seizure of power was illegitimate? Where? Tell me? You are barking up the wrong tree. We are discussing von Papen, and the events that brought about end of the Weimar Republic. It seems that you are unable to stick to the topic, and the topic is who helped Hitler into power. Marx, the conspiracy charges, the Illuminati, the Anschluss, Jewish International bankers, all probably very interesting, but besides the point. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==new img==&lt;br /&gt;
Actually that man in the new img may not be Hitler.  Hitler, as Stalin &amp;amp; Saddam Hussein likewise, were all known to use doubles for some public appearances, the man in that photo may actually be one of Hitler's doubles.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 14:54, 6 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== The evolution of the Hitler article ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It used to be a fairly factual article. Now it turns into something like an opinion piece, pointing to everybody CP disagrees with as causes for Hitler. This isn't encyclopedic anymore, and the really bad thing about it is, that one of the main message of the Third Reich gets lost, namely that fairly decent people from all backgrounds can under the influence of a bad ideology, commit heinous crimes. Peace be upon you. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:54, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The entire evolution bit is a discussion of the ideology of &amp;quot;eugenics&amp;quot; an &amp;quot;race hygiene&amp;quot;. It is not really at its right spot. All other paragraph refer to actual events. The discussion of evolution should go into a discussion section, or a separate article, probably under the header &amp;quot;Eugenics&amp;quot;. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:10, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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**Know whats funny this is the first conservative i have seen on this wiki that has not been glorified. [[User:Cal05000|Cal05000]] 18:08, 5 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler's wax effigy ==&lt;br /&gt;
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It might interest the primary editors of this article to note that the wax effigy of Adolf Hitler, in a glass case built into a wall, guards the entrance to the Chamber of Horrors at Madame Tussaud's Wax Works in [[London]], [[England]]. Or at least it did in 1988 when I toured London with my family.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:TerryH|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:15, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Again, probably not releveant to the article, but there was an amusing story run in the press some time ago suggesting that the dummies hair was actually growing! Quite probably nonsense, but I thought it might interest posters! [[User:Josephx|Josephx]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Improved the article==&lt;br /&gt;
Before anyone gets in a dither, I improved the article.  There was just nothing in it pertaining to even the smallest biography of this individual that could be considered useful before.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:17, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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What I did not touch upon, and it could be included in future edits, were these:&lt;br /&gt;
*Accusastions of, or toleration for, homosexuality in his early years prior to the Night of the Long Knives.  It was known that Hitler used people to further his own ends.&lt;br /&gt;
*Geli Raubal, and implications she may have had a forced affair with Hitler that led to her suicide.&lt;br /&gt;
*Detailed info regarding his childhood&lt;br /&gt;
And it could use some good quotes.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:33, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== First Sentence ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Since this is locked, I'd just like to point out that it's not actually a sentence. ;)[[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:18, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's more or less a title...and I didn't know it was locked!  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:26, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, the actual first sentence is missing a verb.  Actually the whole first paragraph could use some clean up. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:29, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could do it...just keep in mind that it's an introductory paragraph.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:34, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thanks, I did. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:34, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Need to point out something: Hitler was directly responsible for the outbreak of World War II in Europe, and that has to be emphasized.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:35, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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True, but the introductory paragraph suggests that WWII was a response to the Holocaust. It remains uncertain to this day what was and wasn't known about the attrocities being perpetrated against the Jews et al, but it was the need to counter German Imperialism that led to countries becoming involved in the war, not, as much as we would like to believe, a moral stance against the shoah. [[User:Josephx|Josephx]] 12:31, 26 September 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler and against various christian groups ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hitler and against various christian groups at: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v24/i3/nazi.asp&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 05:57, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== we need to give the various evidences and deal with them in a scholarly manner ==&lt;br /&gt;
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We need to give the cite evidences put forth for Hitler not being a Christian and Hitler being a Christian and give reasoanble scholars commentary on them.  For example, the scholarly debate regarding Hitler's Table Talk, Hitler and the occult, Hitler and paganism, Mein Kempf references to God and Jesus Christ.  I don't believe there is a strong case for Hitler being a Christian and since many atheists trot this out I think there should be a scholarly and reasonable material on this matter at Conservapedia.[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 06:04, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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*Is there some scholarly reason for turning this article about Hitler into one primarily about his religious beliefs, running on forever?  Do you not know how to be concise? Might I suggest a new article for you: &amp;quot;Religious Beliefs of Dictators Down Through the Ages&amp;quot;.  I believe you continue to think this is a Bible wiki. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#1E90FF&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;DC143C&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:22, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Hitler time and again cites Darwin &amp;amp; the TOE as the reason why he's not a Christian.  And Hitler summed up Christianity in one word, &amp;quot;stupid.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 12:36, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Yes.  That does not answer my question.  This is not a Bible Wiki, so what you mentioned would be worthy one paragraph.  Without &amp;quot;C&amp;quot; quotes.  --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#1E90FF&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;DC143C&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:02, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Didn't the Nazis burn Darwin's books? Why would Hitler endorse the views of a man whose books he destroyed? '''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#FFCC00&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Scorp&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#773300&amp;quot;&amp;gt;ion&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;'''&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Scorpion|Vote for Pedro]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:15, 19 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I think that it would be fair to say that Hitler believed in a stripped-down, brutal version of Darwinism that was far from being close to Darwin's own beliefs. It is not unsurprising that Hitler should take something and twist it to fit his own abhorrent standards. [[User:Darkmind1970|Darkmind1970]] 10:38, 4 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler was a Vegetarian ==&lt;br /&gt;
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My question is why some people fail to mention Hitler was a Vegetarian and an Anti-Hunting nut.&lt;br /&gt;
:Cause it's not really relevant to anything?[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 15:24, 7 June 2008 (EDT) also, learn what words get capilalized in English. And sign your posts.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 15:24, 7 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler, Creationism, Eugenics, and Evolution ==&lt;br /&gt;
(re posted from earlier)&lt;br /&gt;
The page seems to imply that when Hitler spoke of &amp;quot;favored races&amp;quot; he was somehow invoking evolutionary thought. Evolution theory does not place worth or lack thereof on certain genetic traits, as Hitler did. Are we trying to suggest that racism did not exist before Darwin published his writings? Let us not forget the many places in Mein Kampf where Hitler visualizes his eugenics plan as the fulfillment of '''God''''s Divine Will. And what of the following gems:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. - '''Adolf Hitler''', ''Mein Kampf'', vol. ii, ch. x&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;From where do we get the right to believe, that from the very beginning Man was not what he is today? Looking at Nature tells us, that in the realm of plants and animals changes and developments happen. But nowhere inside a kind shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today. - '''Adolf Hitler''', Hitler's Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
It is not only erroneous to call Hitler an evolutionist, it is, quite frankly, insulting--to suggest a causal connection between scientific theory and genocide. As a secular conservative, I am beginning to wonder: Is Conservapedia really about promoting conservative values (financial responsibility, economic security, etc.) or about trouncing on people's beliefs? Shouldn't conservatives of all beliefs be working together instead of dividing each other in this ridiculous way?&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Stirlatez|Stirlatez]] 22:37, 29 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:If anyone is being divisive, it is you. Instead of trawling around for quotations to rip out of context, try making more substantive contributions to this site. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 13:15, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The Nazi's also banned &amp;quot;6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).&amp;quot; http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/burnedbooks/documents.htm --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 13:09, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Note the qualifier. Social Darwinism does not come into that. And learn how to use apostrophes. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 13:15, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: That is absolutely correct, I did use an apostrophe wrong; I rewrote the sentence and the apostrophe became obsolete. I think that social Dawinism comes in to that to the entire extent that Hitiler's philosophy is based on Darwinian evolution, in that it doesn't at all. Bottom line The Nazi's didn't believe and or like the works of Darwin. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 16:18, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Evolution works with environmental selection and a [b]diversity of gens[/b], something that hitler definitely did not emphasize, this article undermines the credibility of the whole encyclopedia: {{unsigned|DeSouza}}&lt;br /&gt;
::You're not credible, Hitler apologist. You must discount the whole Nazi ideology to believe Hitler and Darwin were not connected in any way.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 16:01, 19 June 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The last paragraph about Richard Dawkins words “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question&amp;quot; is taken totally out of context and turned upside down. Here is the full context that should be given:&lt;br /&gt;
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When asked a question: “As we speak of this shifting zeitgeist, how are we to determine who’s right? If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?”, his response was: “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question. But whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath.”&lt;br /&gt;
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Racism and anti-semitism existed long before Darwin's books. One only has to look at slavery in the 1700s, the First Crusade, and the Jewish expulsions from England and Spain. [[User:OneTruth]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Naziism and Homosexuality ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Wasn't Rohm (the leader of the SA) a Homosexual?----[[User:PhilipV|PhilipV]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PhilipV|'' I Support our Troops!'']]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:23, 25 December 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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I doubt it. If he was, he kept it a secret, because homosexuals were one of the groups targeted in the holocaust. - [[OneTruth]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Shouldn't Hitler be listed under liberal==&lt;br /&gt;
Logically it only makes sense. hitler was a Nazi, or national socialist. socialism is a liberal ideology. therefor it is resonible to assume that hitler was a liberal. not to mention the fact that he had numerous traits in common with liberals--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 19:52, 25 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Proof He's An Atheist ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What proof is there that he is an atheist? In Mein Kampf, he actually seems to be a believer. [http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/tp/AdolfHitlerFaithGod.htm] [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 13:04, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you are against classroom prayer and homeschooling as well, just like Hitler. No real Christian would ever kill millions of people, only an athiest would do that. Hitler was a socialist which is an atheistic philosophy--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 13:18, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Maybe you should read the article on [[Evolutionary racism]] - Hitler's only religion was [[Darwinism]], and he took his [[Darwinist]] beliefs to their natural [[holocaust|conclusion]]. [[User:BobCharlton|BobCharlton]] 13:35, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::SayidR, you are jumping to quite extraordinary conclusions. I'm not saying that he's a Christian, I'm saying that he said himself he believed in God. He could believe in evolution and believe in God. Many bishops do. --[[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 13:38, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Not so, no Christian would do such a thing because Christianity is based off of truth and love while Naziism is based off of deception and hate--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 13:56, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I didn't say he was a Christian. I'm just saying that he himself believed in God, as shown in Mein Kampf. You can dodge questions like a liberal, or be a true open source conservative and see the facts. [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 14:13, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Maybe YOU should remember the 90/10m rule against talk talk talk and keep your pointless arguments to your self--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 20:17, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Okay. [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 21:11, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
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		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Adolf_Hitler&amp;diff=799417</id>
		<title>Talk:Adolf Hitler</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Adolf_Hitler&amp;diff=799417"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T18:13:30Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Proof He's An Atheist */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive1]] &lt;br /&gt;
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==Improvement Proposals==&lt;br /&gt;
*'''''Due to vandalism, please post ''MAJOR'' improvement proposals here, in this section. '''''&lt;br /&gt;
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I know you are keen to point out other things, but could the summary maybe mention that he was also ultimately responsible as the commander of the German army for a large number of war crimes, including the execution of POWs, the leveling of civilian cities and the extermination squads killing whole civilian villages. Could we mention that his main philosophy was that enemies of the German people do not possess any rights, which even applied to citizens of Germany. And he did not only use &amp;quot;threat, intimidation, and outright violence&amp;quot; but he had brilliant polemic propaganda. He was, in the beginning elected in a democratic election. He was grossly misunderstanding and abusing scientific theories (Evolution theory may be the most known one which he perverted, but there are other branches of science as well, like medicine).&lt;br /&gt;
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I suggest a summary like this: After gaining power trough polemics and tactics in politics, he systematically undermined the constitution and the civil rights. With his power growing he used increasingly violence and threats. His philosophy was governed by the hate toward enemies of the German people, which he defined by race, religious or political attitude. He was an antisemitist, and explicitely hated Jews. He was responsible for the killings of millions in concentration camps and for war crimes like the use of chemical weapons, execution of POWs, use of extermination squads in conquered regions, and sieges against civilian cities. He defined the term &amp;quot;racial hygiene&amp;quot; in a perversion of science under which marriages between German and non Germans or German Jews had been restricted and which he used to justify killings of disabled and other people (the largest group being the Jews).&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Stitch75|Stitch75]] 00:31, 15 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Path to power ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I see that the Hayek quote got back. So, the paragraph now explains in detail, but briefly, what van Papen did, what Hitler did, what Hindenburg did, all referring to actual events. &lt;br /&gt;
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Then the article quotes Hayek out of context, and unrelated to the rest, to the effect that its is all just the socialists fault. I guess this means Conservapedia thinks that good ordinary Germans are and cannot not be blamed for what happened in the Third Reich. Is this true? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 8:40 (AEST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:It will be integrated.  Hayek is the historical narrator here. Here's more regarding Roosevelt:&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Whatever you do don't integrate it there. It is ruining the article. All paragraphs of the article except for the introduction contain historical facts and no significant interpretion. The paragraphs, The Beginning Of His Political Life, Beer Hall Putsch, Path to Power, Consolidation of Power, Holocaust, 1944 Assassination Attempt, Marriage, and Death all are fairly factual, and the Hayek quote is the only part of it offering a interpretation. If you want to discuss Hayek's contribution to the  discussion on the causes of the Third Reich, do it somewhere else, but not in the factual account. Make an article, introduce a section at the end, whatever. And then, citing Hayek as only scholar with an opinion on this issue is also insufficient. Numerous history wars were fought about this one. [[User:Order]] 31 July, 11:30&lt;br /&gt;
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::&amp;quot;The system he (FDR) blundered us into is more like the managed and bureaucratized, state supported system of Germany before World War I than our own traditional order. Before his regime we lived in a system which depended for its expansion upon private investment in private enterprise. Today we live in a system which depends for its expansion and vitality upon the government. This is a pre­war European importation ­ imported at the moment when it had fallen into complete disintegration in Europe. ...Americans trapped in the economic disasters and the political quarrels of every nation on earth and a system of permanent militarism closely resembling that we beheld with horror in Europe for decades, bureaucrats swarming over every field of life and the President calling for more power, more price­fixing, more regulations and more billions. Does this look like the traditional American scene? Or does it not look rather like the system built by Bismarck in Germany in the last century and imitated by all the lesser Bismarcks in Europe? ...No, Roosevelt did not restore our economic system. He did not construct a new one. He substituted an old one which lives upon permanent crises and an armament economy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:Actually, we already had this discussion, how the ''real'' anti-Semites &amp;amp; racists came from the former territorries of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  [[Franz Leopold Neumann]] of the Frankfurt School of [[critical thinking]] and Chief Nurmberg Prosecution Researcher said it clearly, and most would agree (exept brainwashed Americans who believed wartime Hollywood propaganda and still do), and that is, Germany was the last place in Europe that anyone ever expect the Holocaust to take place.  And that is because nowhere in Europe had Jews been accepted and made as much social progress as in Germany.  The real fact is, it is Germany's lack of development as a Democracy that would respect everybody's rights including minorities, and the lack of citizen participation and involvement, and not racism, is how a foreigner like Hitler could get in power, import his racist ideas from Austro-Hungary which were not commonly held in Imperial or Wiemar Germany, and carry out the program he did. &lt;br /&gt;
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:And as Hayek points out, it is the Socialist who snuffed out any feelings for, or movement toward, a liberal democracy ''prior to WWI''.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:05, 30 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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First, what has FDR to with this discussion? Other than Germany wasn't the only country with a planned economy during WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
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Second, the Emperor and his political allies weren't to fond about liberal democracy either. &lt;br /&gt;
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Third, we had the discussion that they were all Austrians, and is was already debunked, because many of the main centers of Nazi support were in the Lutheran North of Germany. &lt;br /&gt;
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Fourth, don't hide all the time behind Hayek. His work is definitely interesting, especially because he was neither conservative nor socialist, but states in his work &amp;quot;Why I am not a conservative&amp;quot;, that he is an (old-school) liberal, which exists in a different political dimension. Anyway, whatever Hayek might have said, the question is what you think about the matter. Hayek isn't a Conservapedia editor, you are, and you took his sentence out of context, and put it there. So, what is you opinion on this matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, do you say that the Third Reich was Austrian Catholic Socialist venture, and the Germans had no part in it?&lt;br /&gt;
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And as an aside, I'd like to ask you if you are by any chance of North German Lutheran National Conservative descent? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 11:26&lt;br /&gt;
:So the fact Hayek stated he was not a conservative still does not place fascism at the polar end as an opposite of Communism and Socialism. We are writing historical narrative. We are using primary source, eyewitness accounts of educated and objective observers, not wartime propagandists. A lie that was told in 1933 or 1943, whether it was told by [[Josef Goebbels]], the US [[Office of War Information]], the Hollywood [[Screen Writers Guild]] or [[Franklin Roosevelt]] is as much a lie today as it was in 1933 or 1943. I'm sorry, I make no appologies for this. Facts are facts. We need to explain to the youth of the planet (a) what happened, and (b) ''why'' it happened. Sourcing, and the ''credibility'' of sourcing is paramount. Simply because a myth has been handed down by popular culture or proven liars means nothing. In fact, we have every obligation to correct the record. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:41, 30 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* What has FDR to do with this matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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* I am not sure to which lie you refer? Can you be precise? Do you mean to say that it is a lie that a broad section of German society was bearing responsibility for the Third Reich, and not just a group of Austrian catholic crypto-socialists? Can you answer this please?&lt;br /&gt;
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* I never said that because Nazism wasn't socialist, it must have been conservative. To the contrary. And I didn't say that Socialism was the anti-thesis of Nazism. And therefore good. I repeatedly said that it was neither socialist, nor conservative, and that communism and Nazism were both totalitarian. I said it repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. So don't make stuff up. But just because they were both totalitarian doesn't mean that they are the same.&lt;br /&gt;
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* The article was factual, until you added the Hayek quote giving an interpretation by Hayek. What you report isn't an eyewitness account, but the interpretation of a contemporary.  I agree that should tell the youth first what happened. And that is exactly why the Hayek quote is at it a wrong place, because it not describing a factual event, it is interpretation.  Feel free to add a section on the &amp;quot;history wars&amp;quot; that discussed the causes of the Third Reich. However, I see no need to single out Hayek as only scholar who had something to contribute to the discussion. Other scholars were contemporaries too, and have made equally credible contributions. &lt;br /&gt;
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* And finally, I am still curious if are by any chance of North German Lutheran National Conservative descent? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 13:36&lt;br /&gt;
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#FDR &amp;amp; Hitler articles are part of the WWII series.&lt;br /&gt;
#We're actually not that far off on the [[political spectrum theory]] aspects of National Socialism; the tradional telling is Communism &amp;amp; Fascism are polar opposites.  This isn't what happened.  Two extreme factions of an anti-God ideology got in a big dispute, and 55 million people--many not sympathetic to either side--got killed in the process.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:45, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* What has FDR to do with which parts of the German society bears responsibility?&lt;br /&gt;
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* Nazism wasn't anti-god. Sure, Hitler wasn't what you would a good Christian, and he was anti-clerical when it interfered with his business, but he was a theist, and Nazism as ideology was in favor of &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;. Unlike its socialist roots, this principle has never been been amended. Before you get all excited, I do know that the Nazi view of Christianity is fundamentally different from what the main Churches of today teach. I don't not say that all Christians are Nazis, but just that Nazism wasn't anti-God. &lt;br /&gt;
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* I never said that they are polar opposites, and the article didn't say it either. But just because they are not polar opposites, doesn't means that they are the same. [[User:Order]] 31 July, 15:00&lt;br /&gt;
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::One of the very important aspects of National Socialism is, Nazi's were enlightend Socialists who got thier enlgihtened, athiestic doctrines from Socialsim.  This enlightened, athiestic doctrine, i.e. to overthrow the existing order, or to promote &amp;quot;change&amp;quot; in social organization and institutions that challenged the power of the church, and exisitng Christian morality, such as the commandment to love thine enemies, the Nazi's got from their Socialist roots.&lt;br /&gt;
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::Socialism preached hate and envy, and destruction of alleged &amp;quot;oppressors;&amp;quot; Christianity, or the &amp;quot;old social order&amp;quot; preached tolerence and acceptance of all, Greek and Jew alike. This is where Jewish doctine and Christian doctrine separate--Jews adhered to the old Mosaic command to love thine friend and hate thine enemy.  Christian doctrine, or the &amp;quot;established order&amp;quot; taught &amp;quot;love thine enemies&amp;quot;, even those who oppose themselves.  When God was rejected wholesale in the [[French Revolution]], and Marx &amp;amp; Darwin substituted man having dominion over the earth (as in both Hebrew &amp;amp; Christian scriptures), with the doctrine of ''Natural Selection of '''Favored Races''''', [[class hate]] and [[class war]], and the doctrine that man is an animal, these doctines were applied to those (&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;whom it was percieved&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;) promoted the doctrines. IOW, since man is an animal, if you can kill a dog, you can kill a man. And there is no consequences, final judgement, or higher power to answer to.  '''''It is the enlightened doctrine of Natural Selection of Favored Races being applied in its most logical, and rational, form.'''''  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:47, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* First, it  Nazi apologetic to say that Nazism is the most logical and rational. What essential say is that everybody who doesn't share your views '''must''' kill other people based on race. This is a call for genocide, as I see it. And excuses them. Because you say that there is only one logical conclusion, the Nazis had no choice. Which is not true, because they had a choice. You did put into quotes, so I don't know who said it, but since you post it without comment, I have to assume that it also your opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
:*I didn't say this at all.  I said Nazism is the natural consequence and outgrowth of enlighten Socialism.  That is, more specifically, Naxism is the natural consequence of ''both'' the [[Enlightenment]] and [[Karl Marx]], (and [[Darwinism]], an enlightened subfield of 19th century thought).  Let me put it quite specifically, it is a straight line of deductive reasoning from the Enlightenment which caused the overthrow of the ''Ancien Regime'' to the Holocaust.  There are no divergent paths.  It is the natural process and outgrowth of logical thought along that path.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::What you say is that Nazism was unavoidable, it was the logical consequence of the 19th century. This lets all the people of the hook who helped the Nazis to power in the 1930; this lets all the people of the hook who imprisoned, tortured, and killed people during the Third Reich, and it lets all the people off who invaded other countries an bombed and burned their population in WWII. Because it was inevitable in your reasoning. This a very extreme position withing the already disputed Sonderweg theory, and generally rejected, even by other adherents of the Sonderweg theory. It is generally accepted that some important people had the choice to act differently, but they didn't, and if they had acted different, history would be different as well. [[User:Order]] 2 August, 12:26&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Not at all. What I am saying is worshipping at the altar of science, logic, and reason, in lieu of God, is what the progressive development of 19th century ''thought'' was all about.  And yes, destruction is unavoidable when secularism rejected the Jewish God, that is to say, Jehovah - as a Jewish conspiracy, which is what led [[Marie Antoinette]] to the gallows.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Can you point us to an [[atheism|atheist]] who reject all gods, because they think that it is all a jewish conspiracy? Russel? Dawkins? Or Sam Harris? I guess there is none. They reject gods, because they think that they are inconsistent with what they assume to know about the world. Just because you don't like them, and maybe disagree with their reasoning, doesn't mean that you have to vilify them and make up reasons for their atheism, that are not true. The &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;, advocated by the Nazis, didn't think that it was all a conspiracy, but they thought, that Christ original message, was corrupted by Jews and jewish thought. [[User:Order]] 3 august, 10:00&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I think most of the Nazi's writers certainly make that case, and some point to earlier, 19th century writers to support their arguments.  All of them, Hitler &amp;amp; Hess in ''Mien Kampf'', Goebbels, several others all make this central agrument.  In particular, read the outline of Hitler's unpublished second book, editied by Joachim Fest, tentative title was ''The Monumental History of Mankind''.  It's unmistakeable, &amp;quot;Judah&amp;quot; is responsible for all the planet's problems since time immemorial according to Hitler.  Folks like Voltaire, Marx, and Darwin just paved the path for Hitler &amp;amp; Hess (actually Rudolf Hess did write most of ''Mein Kampf''), Alfred Rosenberg, Houston Stuart Chamberlain, ''et al''.  Betrand Russell and Vladimir Lenin are simply first cousins of this line of &amp;quot;intellectual thought.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:20, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::And I didn't deny that the Nazis and their &amp;quot;Positive Christianity&amp;quot; did blame Jews, to the contrary I '''did'' actually say it. Problem is &amp;quot;Positive Christianity&amp;quot; is theist, not atheist. [[User:Order]] 3 August, 11:35&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You're going to have to prompt my memory with this one, I really have been away from most of these primary sources since the late 1970s.  A link might help, too.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::And just because secular athiesm has unavoidable consequence does not mean at all that that those consequences are justified.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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::::I didn't mean to say that you justified the consequence, I meant to say that it was inevitable, such that in the end no p[erson is personally responsible for the committed crimes.[[User:Order]] 3 august, 10:00&lt;br /&gt;
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* Second. Did you call Nazism enlightened? Just because they respected private property, and sold human beings as raw material to the companies to keep their production running?  &lt;br /&gt;
:*Yes. Nazi's were enlightened atheists who viewed Christianity, as it had been viewed since the time of Voltaire, as a Jewish conspiracy which the Jews themselves did not beleive in.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::(1) What has Voltaire to do with the matter? (2) As is said on this page already, Hitlers view was apparently that the true theistic faith that later became Christianity was corrupted by Jews, but he didn't reject the notion of a god.  He wanted a religion that was cleansed from the jewish influences.  But even if he wasn't an atheist, he still was a bad person. Bin Laden isn't an atheist either. Why are you hung up about proving that he is an atheist, if he said himself that he wasn't. [[User:Order]] 2 August 00:08 (AEST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::See above.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::This really is a digression, some atheists who do not worship Jehovah worship self or Satan as their god.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Third. Even if you keep repeating it, it is wrong to call a movement that had the inscription &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; on their belt when went out to war atheist, or even anti-God. And how do you explain the following sentence from their party program &amp;quot;Die Partei als solche vertritt den Standpunkt eines positiven Christentums, ohne sich konfessionell an ein bestimmtes Bekenntnis zu binden.&amp;quot; Doesn't strike me as anti-God. And I repeat it again, in case you didn't get it, this I do not say that their view of Christianity is in any way compatible with your view on Christianity. &lt;br /&gt;
:*The old &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; argument.  Actually, that was the inscription on the Imperial German belts '''''in the Erste Welt Krieg'''''; the Nazi's substituted the swastika, and later brought back the old imperial inscription.  Further, if you look, it is quotation from the Hebrew scriptures: &amp;quot;Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for '''God is with us'''.&amp;quot; [http://biblebrowser.com/isaiah/8-10.htm] And there is a famous photograph of none other than Ernest Hemingway with a First World War (i.e. no swastika) &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot;  belt buckle in the 1930s.  Do an internet search if you want to see it. Finally, if you're reaching for this argument, it means you're running out of gas.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::* It seem like you can buy those belt buckles of the internet. I don't want to post neo-nazi sites on this page, but google for ''' &amp;quot;gott mit uns&amp;quot; hakenkreuz''', and you will find where you can buy them. &lt;br /&gt;
:::*For the second time &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; is (a) from the Hebrew scriptures, and (b) from Imperial Germany.  Using this logic, we should abandoned the Hebrew scriptures because the Nazi's ripped them off.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:56, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I am not sure how long will take until it get through to you, but I still didn't say that Christianity is Nazism. And I also did not say that Christianity is using Nazi symbols. I said that Nazis used references to God. And that many Nazis, and among them quite likely Hitler himself, were theists. This means that they weren't atheists. You might know that &amp;quot;theist&amp;quot; is not the same as being a &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot;. And you might also know that not being a &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot; following your particular interpretation of the scripture doesn't mean that you are an &amp;quot;atheist&amp;quot;. The Nazis advocated &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;, something which should be different from your version of Christianity, but which is still decidedly theist. This is something different from saying that Christians are Nazis. What is so difficult to understand about that? you are barking up the wrong tree. For days. And I am telling you for days. [[User:Order]] 1 August, 23:58&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Ok, this argument is difficult for obvious reason.  Hitler certainly did not accept the existence or soveriegnty of the Jewish God, Jehovah.  Neither did Hitler accept the old Nordic gods like Wotan, despite some rumors (Ludendorf perhaps did).  Hitler may have believed in some sort of Providence, as Menachim Begin referred to, also.  Who is this &amp;quot;Providence&amp;quot;?  IMHO, it is was most likely Satan, however if Hitler were here, and if you asked him, he'd probably most certainly deny it and laugh, as most Hollywood movie producers would laugh also at the same question.  &lt;br /&gt;
:::::So, we're at the crossroads in examining where a person may actually be admitting to some divine supernatural being greater then themselves that they are in subservience to.  Most spiritually decieved people never even get this far, laboring under the notion that they themselves are god, i.e. that their life purpose is to serve themself.  Now, if a deluded soul arrives at the point where they recognize a supernatural power apart from themself, more powerful than themself, and to whom they owe some sort of debt even, and at the same time pointedly denying this supernatural power is Jehovah, for all intents and purposes we can conclude they are avowed Satanists.  So the only remaining question is, when Hitler survived the July 20, 1944 assassination attempt, and Goebbels convinced Hitler Providence intervened, did he really believe it, or was he just going along with another propaganda scheme?  &lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Whatever you conclude from all this, you're not going to find a very widely accepted doctrine, even among Nazi party members. The vast majority of Nazi party members, and even sympathetic non-party members, were simply garden variety athiestic socialists, who would laugh at the idea they worshipped and/or served Satan.  Yes, there were occultists, like Himmler and many top Nazi's, but the vast majortiy of the public just looked on this behavior not very different from the seances [[Hillary Clinton]] used to hold on the [[White House]] roof.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:40, 6 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::*And what about point 24 in the progam of the NSDAP? About &amp;quot;positive christianity&amp;quot; [[User:Order]] &lt;br /&gt;
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* Thanks for proving my point. I said: '''I do know that the Nazi view of Christianity is fundamentally different from what the main Churches of today teach''', but you still could help giving me the spiel that Nazism and Christianity is different. Read my postings for a change, instead of making stuff. It seems that you can only argue against stuff I didn't say. [[User:Order]] 1 August, 11:23&lt;br /&gt;
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:*Wikipedia, believe it or not, has a good article on Hanns Kerrl. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Kerrl]  This could be expanded upon, and I hope to do so here in CP.  For now, here's a quote from Hitler in ''Tischgesprache'', 14th December 1941 Midday, &lt;br /&gt;
::*&amp;quot;Kerrl, with the noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....Pure Christianity...is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics.&amp;quot; [p. 145-146]  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:38, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Nice quote. Of course there is a dispute about the &amp;quot;Tischgespraeche itself. whether they took place in the form Kerrl reported. But lets no go down this road. Lets take it at face value. It say that he doesn't like the Christian message of forgivenes and compassion. And guess what, that is what I told now already countable time myself. So why do you keep on hammering this point?&lt;br /&gt;
* Actually, a very nice quote. Because he actually says that he reject Bolshevism wholeheartedly. That the he sees a Bolshevistic aspect in Christianity, and that it is exactly this aspect that is incompatible with Nazism. This quote proves that the Fuehrer himself believed that bolshevism and Nazism were incompatible. You made my point, Rob. Thanks.  [[User:Order]] 1 August 14:00&lt;br /&gt;
:*Yes. Nazism simply replaced the word &amp;quot;bourgeois&amp;quot; in [[Marxist]] rhetoric, with &amp;quot;Jewish&amp;quot;, but all the other rhetoric remained the same (incidentally, the [[DNC]] does this very same thing, instead of &amp;quot;rich Jew&amp;quot;, they simply use &amp;quot;The Rich.&amp;quot;)  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 23:30, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
You didn't answer one my questions, and I am still curious: Are you by any chance of Conservative Lutheran North German descent? [[User:Order|Order]] 23:35, 20 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:I am of mixed race: 50% German 50% Slavic.  I was raised Catholic, but today am moreless a Dispensationalist Christian.  Some roots come from Stetin (Szczecin) which was mixed German/Polish &amp;amp; defintiely devout Catholic when they arrived in America; others come from Slovakia.  And there were &amp;quot;mixed marriages&amp;quot; in the US, i.e. my mothers father was Lutheran.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:08, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
===contemporaneous corroboration===&lt;br /&gt;
Ok, returning to Hayek, whom we use a 1945 quote, let's look at a 1940 quote from a Socialist publication during the [[Phoney War]] which says virtually the same thing Hayek said after Hitler blew his brains out:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;'''From 1905 to 1940'''&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
:'''The downfall of bourgeois democracy in Europe did not begin with Hitler. Hitler is a result not a cause'''. The crisis of Europe first showed itself in the Russian revolution of 1905. That it was a world crisis and not a European crisis was proved by the course of the war in 1914. That war neither ended nor made the world safe for democracy. '''The characteristic feature of the period 1918-39 was the destruction of democracy''' in country after country, with or '''without the violent defeat of the socialist movement''', and the steady preparation for the second imperialist war. '''Without socialism, the war of 1939''', Hitler victory or no Hitler victory, '''must inevitably mean the complete destruction of democracy''' all over Europe, the development of the totalitarian state in America, and still further battles for the re-division of the world.&lt;br /&gt;
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:'''The question that faces us, therefore, as Marxian socialists, is to estimate soberly, at this critical moment, what are the possibilities for the socialist revolution''', the only force that can check the descent into the abyss and reverse the process of disintegration. The possibility of an early Hitler victory, the tremendous power displayed by the German military machine, the inevitable demoralization of the anti-Hitler forces in Germany by his uninterrupted march of success – these things undoubtedly have altered the former perspective of a long drawn-out war ending in immediate revolution. Let us, however, before we speculate on the future, examine the past.&lt;br /&gt;
*Source:[http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/marxists/history/etol/newspape/ni/vol06/no04/editorial.htm#s1 ''Blitzkrieg and Revolution''], An Editorial, From New International, Vol.6 No.4, May 1940, pp.83-87.&lt;br /&gt;
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And here is the Hayek quote:&lt;br /&gt;
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:&amp;quot;By the time Hitler came to power, liberalism was dead in Germany. And it was socialism that had killed it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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'''Analysis of comparison;''' while Hayek uses the term &amp;quot;liberalism&amp;quot;, the ''New International'' editorial uses &amp;quot;democracy.&amp;quot;  In both, they are talking about the same thing, and they both make reference to the fact that Socialism survived the destruction of liberal democracy.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I guess the highlighting is by you and not by the ''New International''. Where in the text by the socialist publication do they say that they destroyed liberalism or democracy? To the contrary, the article even suggests that without socialism democracy will be destroyed, and the writer even argues that socialists are the only movement capable of saving democracy. Take for example: ''Without socialism, the war of 1939 must inevitably mean the complete destruction of democracy''. No Socialism, no democracy. According the the ''New International''. The fragment that you quoted tell that democracy got destroyed, and then even claims that the Marxist Socialist are the only force that can reverse the process of disintegration. This quote shows clearly that even the Socialist disagree with your interpretation of the Hayek quote. I am not sure why you like to quote material that proves my point. [[User:Order]] 2 august 10:00 (AET)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The question simply is over blame.  Hayek says socialism destroyed liberalism; the Socialist publication says &amp;quot;The characteristic feature of the period 1918-39 was the destruction of democracy in country after country, with or without the violent defeat of the socialist movement.&amp;quot;  Of course they are not going to take the same position as Hayek, i.e. that they caused it.  But they are observing the same phenomenea, that liberal democracy faded, and socialism survived.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 20:11, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:So all you wanted to say it that democracies in 1920/30s democracies in Europe failed. I don't need Hayek or the New International to tell that. In Italy, Germany, Spain, Russia, and even in Poland and Austria, democracy wasn't going too well. If this is what you want to say both quotes aren't that great to make that point. Given that the other paragraphs in the article are referring to actual events, and not to interpretations from 30 years later, or from a contemporary opinion pieces, you should refer to events in the other countries to make your point.  [[User:Order]] 2 august 18:00&lt;br /&gt;
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::A reading of both documents is illuminating (and other materials could support it, too).  We extracted just one sentence from Hayek, but the whole paragraph sheds even more light, and other quotes, too. Hayek says something to the effect of &amp;quot;fascism is the result when people realize Communism does not work&amp;quot; (to put it another way, Socialism, which evolves into Communism, does not bring democracy, it brings fascism).  ''The New International'' quote above says the same thing, &amp;quot;Hitler is a result not a cause.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 12:58, 2 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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It is agreed that, if not the idea of fascism, then at least the rise of fascism in Europe was a reaction to communism, especially to the rise of Bolshevism in the Soviet Union. But even for that their are better quotes to find that support this. &lt;br /&gt;
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Anyway, what we have now are eight sections on Hitlers life. Look at them one by one:&lt;br /&gt;
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*  ''The Beginning Of His Political Life'': 2 paragraphs, both on fact and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Beer Hall Putsch'': 2 paragraphs on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Path to Power'' 2 paragaphs on fact and events. And '''one''' sentence of interpretation, the Hayek quote. &lt;br /&gt;
* ''Consolidation of Power'': 4 paragraphs on fact and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Holocaust'': 2 paragraphs on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''1944 Assassination Attempt'': 1 paragraph on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Marriage'' : 1 paragraph on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Death'' :: 1 paragraph on facts and events. &lt;br /&gt;
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Altogether 15 paragraphs on facts and events, and one single unrelated sentence that says only indirectly what you actually want to say, namely that fascism was a reaction to Bolshevism. This is not the way to go. The right thing to do would be to remove the Hayek quote from where it is, and if you insist on discussing the causes, a separate section on what scholars said about the causes. And Hayek isn't the only scholar you should mention. Taylor, Turner, Dawidowicz and even Goldhagen come to mind, and there are numerous others. But an isolated blurb, whose meaning isn't obvious after first reading, isn't the way to go.  [[User:Order]] 6 august 10:20&lt;br /&gt;
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:Actually, to say fascism is a &amp;quot;reaction&amp;quot; can be somewhat misleading.  What we know is, that communism and fascism ''do not'' represent polar opposites; fasism is the end result of a ''process'' who's original aim is that socialist utopia called 'communism'.  The process goes something like this: a liberal society embraces socialism; socialism smothers liberalism (the socialist ideal of the collective being greater than the individual stamps out progress on the road to the Rights of Man); socialism's ultimate goal is communism, but when the people realize communism is only a dream, fascism is the end result.&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Where does 'reaction' implies polar opposites? Where? Every person in his right mind knows that both were totalitarian. [[User:Order]] &lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem with this one is the usual misinformation taught at the junior high school level in  definition of &amp;quot;reactionary;&amp;quot; while on one level, fascim indeed was a &amp;quot;reaction&amp;quot; to communism, it was actually part of a progressive process, not a reactionary polar opposite.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:There are no polar opposites, liberalism devolves into socialism, socialism evolves into communism, and communism ultimately evolves into fascism.  I have another eyewitness source who uses the phrase &amp;quot;Red fascism.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:20, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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You are applying the cold-war and 1980's US definition of &amp;quot;Liberal&amp;quot;, because actual Liberals of that time, and Hayek is a prime example, would  strongly disagree with you. They would probably hit you with a stick. Liberals like Hayek were firmly the opposed to both socialism and fascism, because both were totalitarian. Also it is provably wrong to say that people first embraced socialism, before they became fascists. Many embraced fascism right away, from being national conservative, or monarchist, or whatever other -ism you had in that time. Often out of fear of Bolshevism. [[User:Order]]  6 august 11:30&lt;br /&gt;
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:I agree the contemporary, popular use of the term &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; is a misnomer, particularly in the United States.  The correct term is &amp;quot;socialist,&amp;quot; even with its US shading to mean &amp;quot;treasonous,&amp;quot; which is becoming more apparant as time goes by.  It is unfortunate, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman, and Boris Yeltsin, all [[classical liberal]]s, did somewhat rehabitilate the term in the 1980s &amp;amp; early 90s, but the old perjoritives all came back to stick (most probably through Rush Limbaugh and the lifting of the [[Fairness Doctrine]], which is very well explained in CP's entry).  FWIW, it looks like we're stuck with the pejoritive, contemporary American meaning of the term liberal.  Of course, the [[MSM]] and the [[DNC]] have been of little help in clarifing its real meaning.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==von Papen==&lt;br /&gt;
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I see that the Hayek quote is still in there. I also saw that you portrayed the period of imperial Germany as one in which it was a socialist paradise. And also there you quote Hayek. Hayek would hit you with a stick for this, because he knew perfectly well that this is plain ridiculous. Imperial Germany was Bismarck, Kulturkampf, Nationalismus, Demokratiedefizit, Sozialistenerlaesse, Sozialversicherung, Flottenausbau, Wilhelm Zwo.&lt;br /&gt;
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And when it comes to the beginnings of the Third Reich you might want check which party van Papen belonged to, which parties did vote, under pressure but they did, in favour of his empowerment laws, which party the rest of Hitlers first cabinet belong too, which parties were part of the Harzburg front, the political background of Hugenberg, Schacht, and others who actually helped Hitler to power. You can impossibly claim that it was all just a socialist endeavor. But it seems that fact don't count here, while I had hope that we could keep spin out of the a subject as important as Hitler. Peace be upon you. [[User:Order|Order]] 20:08, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Interesting premise; one of the charges against von Papen at Nuremberg was he was part of the Nazi conspiracy, but as you just pointed out, he was never a member of the Nazi Party.  Why can't these things ever be discussed dispassionately?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:32, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Exactly, my point. He wasn't a member of the Nazi party, he was a prominent member of the Zentrum party, a Catholic Party, and he still helped Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:06, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So, dare I ask the question, is it unfair to refer to him as a &amp;quot;Nazi War Criminal&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 23:26, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
It might be unfair, not sure what the Nuremberg Trial decided.  Did I call him &amp;quot;Nazi War Criminal&amp;quot;? To the contrary, the point is that he probably isn't, but that he was a fairly normal German centrist politician, who still helped Hitler into power.  [[User:Order|Order]] 23:38, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Truth is, he really had a disdain for Hitler, and Hitler didn't care much for von Papen either.  And their mutual distrust and resentment had little to do with politics.  It was a class difference.  Von Papen regarded Hitler as an ill-mannered low-life, and Hitler thought von Papen an artistocratic snob.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:21, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:There is famous newsreel footage with no audio of [[Treaty of Munich]] that reveals the difference between the two.  Von Papen and Hitler are leading the guests which include Ciano &amp;amp; Chamberlain into a room.  Hitler plops himself down in a chair, while von Papen observes the diplomatic nicities of remaining standing until all the guests are in the room and seated.  Hitler clearly is embarassed the moment he sits down and sees von Papen remaining standing, and its all caught on film.  He knows he looks crude, rude, selfish, and inexperienced in just simple manners, let alone protocol, or &amp;quot;high class&amp;quot; manners. And it's almost as if he feels deliberately tricked by von Papen into making himself look bad. Very revealing, if uyou ever get a chance to see it. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:30, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
So, van Papen didn't even like this guy, and still helped him to get to power, and worked for him until Munich. So, we found already one person who wasn't an ideologue but was still working for the third Reich.  [[User:Order|Order]] 00:36, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::So the Foreign Minster of the Third Riech wasn't even a Nazi, was not one of the 22 Nazi War Criminals at Nuremberg (although history remembers him that way), was found innocent at Nuremberg of being part of the Nazi conspiracy to (a) sieze power (b) make aggresive war (c) etc., although you persist in making that charge. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:03, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Did the Nuremberg trail say that it was a conspiracy? I doubt so. And indeed, van Papen helped Hitler to power, I guess there is little discussion about it. One might argue about his motivation, but seems to not much of a mystery either. [[User:Order|Order]] 04:21, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes it did.  The [[Treaty of Munich]] was a &amp;quot;conspiracy against Peace&amp;quot;, as well as all the other events (re-occupation of Rhineland, Invasion of Poland, etc.)  Then there was &amp;quot;conspiracy to wage aggressive war&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
:One should read the Nuremberg Indictment in its entirety [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count.htm].  It really is not that long.  And it sets out all the major issues to be dealt with prior and afterwards. (One writer has explained why the charge of &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot;, Britian needed it to CYA for thier policy of appeasement, i.e. Britian couldn't live up to treaty obligations because it was a victim of a conspiracy--and von Papen's aquittal addresses that argument).&lt;br /&gt;
:You will see, for example, the Katyn massacre.  Peculiar, isn't it, that while the Western Powers knew this Soviet charge was false, and that indeed one of the Administators of Justice in this case himself was guilty of the charge, allowed it to become part of the historical record (this record, which then was resurrected in the mid 1990's as the model of Administering International Justice for War Crimes); also, after reading the horrors that the Soviet's present, we almost get comic relief at France's idea of Crimes Against Humanity, like plunder of property [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count3.htm#sec8e]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Wine..................................................................7,647,000 hectolitres.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Champagne...................................................87,000,000 bottles&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Beer...................................................................3,821,520 hectolitres&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Various kinds of alcohol.................................1,830,000 hectolitres &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The myth of France as a &amp;quot;Great Power&amp;quot; (or for that matter, a &amp;quot;victim&amp;quot; when France provided more manpower, and more [[GDP]] to the Nazi cause than it did to defend, or liberate, itself, is something that at some point needs to clarified in the English language.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Another point, the various charges of &amp;quot;mass deportation of populations&amp;quot;, while Germans were being deported east of the Oder-Niese, the Keelhaul Agreement, the Crimean Taters, the Volga Germans etc. etc. etc. were occuring, has never been addressed (outside of Solzhenitsyn's ''Gulag Archipeligo''), or &amp;quot;systematic malnutrition&amp;quot;, which Lenin &amp;amp; Stalin perfected long before Hitler adopted [[Bolshevik]] methods.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:42, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The [[Treaty of Munich]] happened after the seizure of power. And saying the this treaty was &amp;quot;a conspiracy against peace&amp;quot;, is also something slightly different than claiming that &amp;quot;Nazism is a conspiracy&amp;quot;. And the rest are tangents. The question was still about who helped Hitler to power, not what happened afterwards or elsewhere. And von Papen was still one of the people who brought Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:04, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Unfortunately, all we have is the historical record.  And the Nuremberg trial rendered its verdict.  You are arguing the case that everyone deficient in psychic powers in 1933 is complicit in genocide.&lt;br /&gt;
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:It's not unlike the recent book on IBM; because Nazi's purchased IBM equipment, all the shareholders, employees, and Board of Directors past and present who &amp;quot;did business with the Nazi's&amp;quot; are complicit in genocide.  By this line of argument, if Nazi's purchased Crest Toothpaste and Charmin Toilet Paper, Crest Toothpaste and Charmin Toiler Paper likewise &amp;quot;did business with the Nazi's.&amp;quot;  Don't forget Hitler's shoeshine boy, he must have been involved, too.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:25, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Did I somewhere say that van Papen is responsible for genocide? I agreed that the Nuremberg trial is probably the instance that had to decide on this. So but what you say that that van Papen is as responsible for Hitlers rise to power as Hitler shoe shine boy. Did the shoe shine boy go to Hindenburg and convince him to make Hitler chancellor? I doubt it. What I see that you go on all kinds tangents, just because you are unable to accept the historical fact that there were centrist and conservative politicians who helped Hitler to power. [[User:Order|Order]] 18:44, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Here's the probelm: Hitler was legally came to power under the then Wiemar Constitution.  He overwhelmingly won a popular election as well.  The Wiemar Constitution wasn't even indigenous, it was imposed as a &amp;quot;liberal reform.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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:Now, if you are to allege that Hitler, a common scum, came to power outside of some secret Masonic Illuminati cabal that really controls things, and therefore Hitler and the Nazis claim on power was illigimate, we have a problem there.  As it is, Hitler was never invited by the French government to visit Paris anytime from the day he came to power. Why is this? Because he was illigitmate? Because he was outside of a clique of insiders who determine who should hold power?  Do you see where this line of rhetoric is going to lead you?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:31, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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You try to get the discussion on all kinds of tangents, like whether the constitution was indigenous, Masonic Illuminati, French inviting Hitler for supper, IBM, Crest tooth paste. Rob, you are alleging all kinds of things that I never said, and that frankly do not even matter. Fact is Hitler came to power under the Weimar constitution. Did I say otherwise? I don't think so. Fact is also that he didn't win a majority of seats, so he needed the help of others. And van Papen was one of then who helped. And Hugenberg another. BTW: While van Papen wasn't found guilty in the Nuremberg trial to be one of the main criminals, he was sentenced to 8 years in prison during denazification for his role as collaborator and enabler. Why is it so hard for you to admit the fact that there were conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. No, you rather talk about Illuminati to not to have admit this simple fact. [[User:Order|Order]] 21:56, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So, welfare queens &amp;amp; labor unions help Bill Clinton get into power, despite the fact he sold them down the river with NAFTA &amp;amp; Welfare Reform.  Do you think they might have voted any different if they knew they'd be &amp;quot;stabbed in the back&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:00, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
For discussing Bill Clinton, go to the entry [[Bill Clinton]]. We are discussing Hitler's path to power. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:02, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:OK. What's wrong with this text: &lt;br /&gt;
:*''After a series of minority cabinets former Chancellor van Papen convinced President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler to become Chancellor in a coalition government with the national conservative party. Van Papen expected the nation would recognize Hitler to be a fraud within a few months in government.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Seems to say what you want it to say.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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No surprise. I wrote it. &lt;br /&gt;
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Problem is still the Hayek quote that you took out of context. It suggests that the path to power was purely a socialist endeavor. However, and I cite you citing me:&lt;br /&gt;
*''After a series of minority cabinets former Chancellor van Papen convinced President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler to become Chancellor in a coalition government with the national conservative party. Van Papen expected the nation would recognize Hitler to be a fraud within a few months in government.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, it wasn't just the socialists who brought Weimar down. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:11, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:What Hayek is saying is liberalism, in the classic sense, was weakened to non-existent to oppose Nazism.  And your use of conservative here likewise is problematic; the titled nobility of Germany, or for that matter all of Europe, is &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; in the European sense.  As we've had this discussion elsewhere, the US Constitution expressly prohibits the government from conferring titles.  So the express meaning of the term here, &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; to refer to von Papen and others is wholely out of context in attempt to draw a parallel to contemporary American conservativism.  &lt;br /&gt;
:Shame on you, Order, I have more respect for you and your skills than this feeble reasoning your pushing.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:19, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Classic liberalism was indeed weakened, and the permanent attacks from both sides of the spectrum didn't help. But where did the liberals go? Some went left, other went right. My use of &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; is fairly consistent with the use by the people in question themselves. The DNVP, the German National People Party, was for example the legitimate successor of the pre-WWI Konservative Partei, the Conservative Party. This is the party that helped Hitler to a majority of seats in parliament. Same holds for von Papen, he was from the conservative wing of the Zentrum party. I said it a few times in this thread already that contemporary US interpretations of 'left' and 'right' don't apply to the 1930s in Germany, so I am not sure what you are complaining about.  And there is no shame in pushing the fact that there were also conservative politicians in Germany who made didn't mind that Weimar failed, who didn't shed a tear when Hitler came to power. One of the lesson of the Third Reich is that if you fail to fix an imperfect democracy for short term political gain, you might end up with something worse in the long run. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:32, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:This is an interesting discussion. Truth is, its been many years since I've reviewed any of these source materials in detail.  Likewise I did read von Papen's memoirs many many years ago, and am familiar with his case.  Seems much of this discussion only grabs tidbits from this or that source, usually out of context, so let's make some effort to set the materials before us (incidentally, von Papen was sentenced to 8 years, yet served less than two; and this is not the place to go into why he was tried a second time after being aquited the first time).&lt;br /&gt;
::There's is nothing special about it. The Nuremberg Trials where aimed at the top of the regime, while the Denazification was aimed to determine the involvement of all people who held office, 2.5 million people in the western Germany alone. He probably was sentenced as 'offender'. The majority were judged to be 'followers', or even acquitted. Von Papen obviously wasn't. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:34, 27 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:::He was tried twice because of the outrage over the verdict.  Double jeopardy goes against Anglo-American jurisprudence.  Even the Soviet Judges could not find conspiracy on his part.  And when the poltical situation changed in 1949, so did the second verdict against von Papen.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:38, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The Soviets didn't agree with the judgment of the Nuremberg trial and wrote dissenting Opinion[http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-dissenting-von-papen.html]. The second trial was in a civil court, and I guess it happens also in the US that someone is found not guilty of criminal charges, but gets convicted in civil court nevertheless. But I couldn't find much about the second trial, so I trust you that the second trial was a result of public outrage. I guess that proves that while he might have not been guilty in criminal court, he messed up politically. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:11, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:OK, let's look at the original indictment, and then the Judgement.  Von Papen is indeed charged with all the same things you are charging him with here: &amp;quot;Von Papen Used His Personal Influence To Promote The Accession Of The Nazis To Power. &amp;quot; ''et seqq'' [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-02/nca-02-16-18-index.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Let's look at the Judgement: &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933, in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January;&amp;quot; Wikipedia reports &amp;quot;The central role that Papen played in Hitler's appointment as Chancellor in January 1933 was reflected by Papen's indictment at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trial, though he was acquitted on formal reasons, the tribunal deciding that his &amp;quot;political immoralities&amp;quot; were not under its jurisdiction.&amp;quot;  This of course, is totally false, as the Nuremberg Judgement clearly, clearly states: &amp;quot;The evidence leaves no doubt that von Papen's primary purpose as Minister to Austria was to undermine the Schuschnigg regime and strengthen the Austrian Nazis for the purpose of bringing about Anschluss. To carry through this plan he engaged in both intrigue and bullying. But the Charter does not make criminal such offenses against political morality, however bad these may be. &amp;quot; [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-defendants-von-papen.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Conlcusion: (a) von Papen's &amp;quot;political immortality&amp;quot; (singular), as rendered by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, related to the Anschluss, '''''and not the Nazi's regimes rise to power in Germany.'''''  Further, the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal fails to make any mention whatsoever about any sort of complicity in conspiracy or for that matter anything about his role in helping Hitler gained power. All the Tribunal found, as cited above, is &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; with the final verdict, &amp;quot;The Tribunal finds that von Papen is not guilty under this Indictment, and directs that he shall be discharged.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:So lets get the facts in order before we even discuss making generalizations.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:03, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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So, we still agree that he wasn't one of about 20 people that were found guilty as war criminals in the Nuremberg Trial. Thanks for posting the judgment. The second paragraph of the judgment refers exactly to what we are discussing here.  &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933, in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January, 1933 &amp;quot;. That he was found not guilty for his role in the Anschluss is another matter. That happened a few years later. Thanks again for posting the official judgment which essentially confirms what I said. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:17, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So what was he guilty of as &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; since contrary to ''both'' you ''and'' Wikipedia's claim, the Tribunal found this '''''did not''''' even  constitute an offense against &amp;quot;political morality&amp;quot;, let alone a crime, or conspiracy?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:38, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I still didn't say that he was part of the conspiracy to start an agressive war. And why should we care what Wikipedia says. The tribunal had to determine which people were responsible for the ''aggressive war''. It judged that it could not be established beyond reasonable doubt that von Papen was involved in planning an aggressive war. That is why they acquitted the charges. However, the tribunal found him politically responsible, but that under the charter of the tribunal, they couldn't convict him for &amp;quot;such offenses against political morality, however bad these may be&amp;quot;. Anyway, this all refers to the Anschluss, and we where talking about his involvement in Hitler's path to power. And here the judgment states clearly that von Papen helped Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:59, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Big deal. There was no crime in it.  In fact, Hitler came to power legally.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Now, when the Tirbunal sat down in November 1945, they brought up all this conspiracy stuff about a &amp;quot;siezure of power&amp;quot;; as the trial progressed, it became fairly obvious there may have been &amp;quot;backstairs&amp;quot; dealings, but that how the sytem works, even under the US Constitution.  By the time the verdict was reached, the Judges were faced with the sad fact that Hitler abided by the rules to &amp;quot;sieze power.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:Now many peolple have never been happy with these facts, and wish to condemn Hitler &amp;amp; everybody connected with from his mothers womb for all that followed.  The German people today speak of the &amp;quot;Nazi seizure of power&amp;quot;, obviously to take comfort themeselves in denial because the truth is he came to power Consitutional, by democratic means, and the people voted for him.  But its easier for contemporay Germans to play the role of victim along with everybody else.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then your argument, that somehow everybody involved in his ascention was illigitimate; this really itself sounds like Nazi rhetoric. Cause the root of this arguement is that Hitler was unnapporved by the Jewish-Masonic conspiracy that controls and decides who is legitimate.  And this is the very argument you are putting forward.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:23, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Where do I say that the Nazis seizure of power overcame the German people? Where did I say that it was an illegitimate action? And most important where did I use Nazi rhetoric? Don't make stuff up stuff that I didn't say. Or show me where.&lt;br /&gt;
* As a German myself I can tell you that just a few Germans comfort themselves with the myth that it was an illegal power grab. The failure of Weimar is taught and discussed in great detail, including the decline of liberal democracy, the failure of democrats to work together, the anti-democratic forces on both sides of the spectrum, and also the role (and call it naivety) of von Papen and the likes when it came to Hitler. Don't make up stuff about how the end of Weimar is discussed in Germany.&lt;br /&gt;
* It was about political and moral responsibility all the time. You went on all kind of tangents, like the war tribunal, and whether von Papen was a war criminal. The question wasn't if von Papen was a War Criminal, but if he and other conservative politicians have a share in the political and also moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power.&lt;br /&gt;
* You bring up the in the Illuminati stuff without reason. If your best bet is to bring up weird conspiracies that I didn't mention, your arguments must be poor. And then on top of it you claim that I use Nazi rhetoric. &lt;br /&gt;
* Hitler came to power through legitimate means because he got help from others. And these other were conservative politicians like von Papen and Hugenberg. No need to tell you that Von Papen was Vice-chancellor, and Hugenberg Minister in Hitler first administration. &lt;br /&gt;
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You are unable to admit that the rise of Hitler was not just a socialist venture, but that there were also conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. Maybe you can answer the following question. Who bears a greater political and moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power: Carl von Ossietsky, a  very controversial socialist in the Weimar Republic, who was sentenced for treason in the 1930? Or von Papen who convinced Hindenburg to give Hitler a try? And who helped Hitler to consolidate his power, and who was Vice-Chancellor, when his government put von Ossietsky in a labor camp? The guy who got the Nobel peace price in 1935, or the guy who was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment after the war? The guy who died in 1938 from tuberculosis he got while he was forced to drain swamps, or the guy who died in 1969 of old age in his mansion? The socialist pacifist with a questionable ideology, or the conservative politician with a questionable role during the Third Reich? Not an easy question, but spare us long tangents please, just who bears more responsibility, von Ossietsky or von Papen for Hitler's rise to power? [[User:Order|Order]] 08:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:*''where did I use Nazi rhetoric? ''&lt;br /&gt;
::*In the Nazi view, the [[Treaty of Versailles]] was a Jewish conspiracy that destroyed the monarchy, dismembered Germany, and established a Constitutional Republic.  This &amp;quot;Jewish Conspiracy&amp;quot;, in the Nazi's view, dictated ''who'' the administrative powers in Germany would be, and what German domestic armament policy, and foreign policy would be.  The Nazi's viewed themselves as &amp;quot;seizing power&amp;quot; from this Jewish-Illuminati International bankers conspiracy when Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933.  However, the Nazi's were not strong enough to win the Chancellorship and Parliamentary elections, so it was done in a coalition with other parties, some democratic.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::In the Nazi view, there was a second &amp;quot;seizure of power&amp;quot; after the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; from the International &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot; that &amp;quot;dictated&amp;quot; who would govern Germany; power was seized away from the Nazi's coalition partners when parliamentary rule was ended.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::When the Nuremberg Tribunal met, Prosecutors brought forward some of the Nazi's own rhetoric, how they had &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; in violation of both International conventions under Versailles, and the Weimar Constitution.  Charges of &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot; were leveled, that all involved had violated International conventions under Versailles, and the Weimar Constitution in the Nazi's assent to power in 1933.  The Judges, including Soviet Judges, soon realized, that to render this verdict would be to rubber stamp the validity of Nazi propaganda.  That to adjudicate the Nazi regime as illegitimate from day one would be to validate the Nazi claim that foreigners and International agreements such as Versailles were indeed the controlling instruments that stripped Germany of its sovereignty.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Where do I say any that the Nazi seizes the power from an international conspiracy? Where? Where did I bring up the Illuminati? You say that I use Nazi rhetoric, while I didn't say any of those things. Show me otherwise. This is a challenge.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::To the contrary, I was always pointing to his coalition partners. Do not make up stuff that I never said. Otherwise, show me.[[User:Order|Order]] 19:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You might as well blame a constitutional democracy for Hilter's rise, because that is exactly what happened.  The system was designed for coalition governments in the absence of an absolute majortiy.  Bottomline again, the coalition parnters were not Nazi's; if they were Nazi's they would have quit thier minortiy parties and joined the Nazi party.  But that did not happen.  Instead, once Hitler became Chancellor, he ignored and violated thier rights, too.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::So, did I say otherwise? After the Hitler came to power, some politicians from conservative did actually join the NSDAP. Anyway, bottomline is indeed that his coalition partners weren't Nazi's, but conservative politicians like von Papen. As I said from the beginning of this thread. {{unsigned|Order}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:*''why should we care what Wikipedia says.''&lt;br /&gt;
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::*A few years ago I commented in Wikipedia on the large volume of material being brought over from the German Wiki that persistently referred to the &amp;quot;Nazi seizure of power.&amp;quot;  The Nazi's in fact did not seize power in January 1933, they came to power under provisions of the legitimate Weimar Constitution.  The Nazi's ''did'' seize power from their democratic coalition partners when they ended parliamentary rule.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Contemporary Germans have maintained the that they, too, were victims; that the Nazis came to power illegitimately, when in fact they were supported at the ballot box by many Germans.  They were victimized later, when parliamentary rule ended, and the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; from their coalition partners ''after'' January 1933.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The bottomline, while maintaining the fiction that the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; in January 1933 is comforting to absolve complicity among democratic forces that were coalition partners, it really is nothing more than the Nazi POV.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 15:26, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Did I say any of this? Didn't I say the opposite. I was permanently pointing to Hitlers coalition partners. Don't make stuff up or show me otherwise. Or is this supposed to be proof that Germans at large think that the Hitler came to power illegally, by pointing to an experience you had on Wikipedia a few years ago. If you trust Wikipedia that much, go to the German version of Wikipedia, and what they say about Machtergreifung. I will be edited mostly by German editors, and I doubt that it says that it was an illegal act to get power from back an international conspiracy. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Your point is along the lines that, &amp;quot;Why did von Papen, et al, form a coalition government ''with'' the Nazis, ''against'' the Comintern apparat?&amp;quot;  This question is easy to answer.  While the murderous nature of the Comintern organizations against ''thier'' imaginary enemies was known in 1933, no one knew the Nazis would adopt and apply Bolshevik methods against the Nazis imaginary enemies to the extent that they did after 1933.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 20:32, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Where did I say that von Papen should have sided with the Comintern. Where? It is generally agreed that at the beginning of 1933 there was no need to form a coalition government with the Nazis. The Nazi had just lost their first state elections, and the economy was picking up. Von Papen had to convince Hindenburg. Sure, von Papen probably didn't have the foresight that it would almost cost his life in the Night of Long Knives, nor that it would lead to a total war. But he rather than trying to fix the democracy, he was actively pushing to get somebody into power, who was fairly open about his aims to abolish democracy. Fascism was known, and von Papen knew it too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::So von Papen used democratic means to destroy democracy?  I think you may be mischaracterizing von Papen's political views.  Von Papen was an anti-Communist.  Not all anit-Communists are fascists, however in this instance a coalition between some democratic elements was made with fascists to prevent Soviet-backed Comintern subversion.  You repeatedly speak of &amp;quot;bares responsibiltiy;&amp;quot; the Weimar Constitution itself bares responsibility, it did precisely what it was designed to do.  Hitler was speaking of rebuilding the German military; industrialists &amp;amp; the miltiary liked this idea.  That does not make them racists or advocates of genocide.  That makes them partners in a coalition government with Nazis, nothing more and nothing less.  When the Nazis began diabusing ''thier'' rights, some joined the nationalist movement, some did not.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::In sum, once again, the Tribunal rendered its verdict, not just regarding von Papen, but '''also''' regarding the whole question as to conspiracy &amp;amp; morality around the Nazis and Hitler's rise to power.  What it really does look like is, other than von Papen being Catholic, what crime or moral offense is he guilty of?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::I didn't blame him for being catholic (see below). And the tribunal said in its verdict that Von Papen bears responsibility for the events in that got Hitler into power. The tribunal acquitted Von Papen for other charges. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:42, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::This brings me back to the question:  Who bears more responsibility for the getting Hitler into power: von Papen or Ossietsky? [[User:Order|Order]] 21:44, 27 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The question that I posed remains unanswered. Who, in your opinion Rob, has bears more responsibility for Hitler's rise to power. Von Ossietsky or Von Papen. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:20, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Since you keep referring to things I never said, a brief list of thing we did agree on, and a list of things I actually did say.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
First, we agree that von Papen was&lt;br /&gt;
* a catholic&lt;br /&gt;
* conservative&lt;br /&gt;
* anti-communist&lt;br /&gt;
* member of the Zentrum Party&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I don't blame him for any of this. If I'd be living in the 1930s it would probably apply to me, since all of my 4 grandparents were catholic, conservative, anti-communist voters of the Zentrum party. There is no blame in that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, von Papen has responisbility for his deeds. In particular.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen revoked as Chancellor in June 1932 the ban on SA and SS. &lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was actively pursuing the end of the Schleicher administration in January 1933.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen then gathered support to get Hindenburg to appoint Hitler chancellor in a coalition government.&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was vice-chancellor in Hitler's government.&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was leading the political alliance of national conservative parties in the March 1933 election, which provided Hitler the remaining seats to get a majority in parliament.&lt;br /&gt;
He shares political responsibility for this. We are not talking a criminal charges, but about political responsibility. For the rise and consolidation of Hitlers power, up to the Empowerment laws, or if you like even up to the Night of the Long Knives, when Hitler got von Papen to resign as vice-chancellor. That he wasn't found guilty of war crimes is another issue altogether. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:25, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Where is there a crime in any of this? How are free citizens exercising their rights in a constitutional democracy a moral offense? And given the alternative, for example revoking the ban on SA and SS to counter the Moscow directed murderers is something you fail to consider, let alone discuss.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:There is plenty of information available to condemn the Nazi's with.  Using half truths, innuendo, and falsehoods based upon the Nazi's own falsehoods only impugns the integrity of the historical reporter, and makes all his reporting biased and suspect.  Such is the case with Wikipedia right now, and it may not be their own invention, they may actually be just parroting the lies and falsehoods they've inherited.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The point of propagating and expounding these half truths and falsehoods you actually may have articulated in this discussion; it is not to give accurate historical reporting, nor to gather experience and warning signs for future generations.  It is to twist the facts of history, such as we've seen in the Wikipedia articles, to impugn contemporary imagined political opponents, in this case &amp;quot;conservatives.&amp;quot; How is this being done? (a) refusing to admit the godless socialist nazis rose in a marxist revolution against the powers that be, in thier view, the &amp;quot;Jewish International&amp;quot; financiers who destroyed the Hapsburg, Hohenzollern, and Romanov monarchies which had kept the peace for 100 years; (b) blaming the enemies of Communism, the Church and other anti-Communists, for anti-Semitic fascist ideals and intent.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The bottomline here is, using the Nazi's own view of themselves, that they were illegitimate outsiders to the Jewish international cabal that wrote the Treaty of Versailles, illegally and by immoral means rose up and seized power from the legitimate powers that be, i.e. the &amp;quot;Jewish financiers&amp;quot; behind the Treaty of Versailles, to put a spin on history with the real intent to attack modern political opponents with, is unnecessary, and potentially very dangerous.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 10:32, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The discussion isn't about Nazi ideology, and I in particular didn't push any Nazi views that involve a Jewish conspiracy (or show me other wise), and this is irrelevant for the discussion for Von Papen, because he wasn't a Nazi in the first place. But your first paragraph is to the point, so i'll respond to that.	 &lt;br /&gt;
		 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''Where is there a crime in any of this?''. I said repeatedly that we are not talking about criminal charges.	 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''How are free citizens exercising their rights in a constitutional democracy a moral offense?'' Everybody bears responsibility for his deeds, even for the legal ones. This also applies also in politics, and there are countless example of immoral but legal behavior in politics.	 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''And given the alternative, for example revoking the ban on SA and SS to counter the Moscow directed murderers is something you fail to consider, let alone discuss.'' Von Papen was the Chancellor of Germany, and he had access to police and army. I hope that we agree that the SA and SS weren't out to enforce the law, but a fascist mob instead. Von Papen didn't use or need the SA and SS to prevent or solve violent crimes by the communist mob. He legalized it to get political backing from the NSDAP for his minority cabinet. 	 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All these acts were legal, sure, but Von Papen did it for political reasons, and carries hence political responsibility for these acts. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:01, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Path to Power (Continued) ==&lt;br /&gt;
You are unable to admit that the rise of Hitler was not just a socialist venture, but that there were also conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. Maybe you can answer the following question. Who bears a greater political and moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power: Carl von Ossietsky, a  very controversial socialist in the Weimar Republic, who was sentenced for treason in the 1930? Or von Papen who convinced Hindenburg to give Hitler a try? And who helped Hitler to consolidate his power, and who was Vice-Chancellor, when his government put von Ossietsky in a labor camp? The guy who got the Nobel peace price in 1935, or the guy who was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment after the war? The guy who died in 1938 from tuberculosis he got while he was forced to drain swamps, or the guy who died in 1969 of old age in his mansion? The socialist pacifist with a questionable ideology, or the conservative politician with a questionable role during the Third Reich? Not an easy question, but spare us long tangents please, just who bears more responsibility, von Ossietsky or von Papen for Hitler's rise to power? [[User:Order|Order]] 08:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Tribunal examined all the questions and rendered its verdict.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 14:46, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::The tribunal said that von Papen shares moral and political responsibility for getting Hitler into power. Cool. So I take it as  admission that it was not just socialism was responsible for the end of the Weimar Republic, but that conservative politicians like von Papen also bear some responsibility. The only reasonable thing to do right now would be to remove the Hayek quote, because as it is quoted it suggest otherwise. You can either do it yourself, or unlock the article and I am happy to remove it myself. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You are still reading this in the verdict that are not there.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:51, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Lets get a third person to read the verdict and see if the second paragraph says &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933 in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January, 1933.&amp;quot; and then to look at the end which says &amp;quot;Under the Charter von Papen can be held guilty only if he was a party to the planning of aggressive war&amp;quot; and he was found not guilty of that charge. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:07, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;--&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here's the paragraph condensed:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;The evidence leaves no doubt that von Papen's primary purpose as Minister to Austria '''was to undermine the Schuschnigg regime''' and strengthen the Austrian Nazis for the purpose of bringing about Anschluss....he '''engaged in''' both '''intrigue''' and bullying. But the Charter does not make criminal such '''offenses against political morality''', however bad these may be. Under the Charter von Papen can be held guilty only if he was a party to the planning of aggressive war.....&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::So, we agree that the tribunal did find him not guilty for his role in the Anschluss, since '''offenses against political morality''' do not fall under the charter. That is kind of exactly what I said. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:39, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, at the moment I am reading the case of [[Helen Scott]], one of several [[Comintern]] opperatives who &amp;quot;engaged in political immorality&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;intrigue&amp;quot; (haven't found any &amp;quot;bullying&amp;quot; yet).  Who was Helen Scott?  Helen Scott was one of several Comintern opperatives who, as an American citizen, was an agent of the Soviet Union ''and '''was appointed to the staff of American prosecutors at the [[Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal]].'''''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Care to collaborate on [[Helen Grace Scott Keenan]]?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 10:37, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'll think about it. But I try to stay focussed, and not get into to much at once. Thanks. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:39, 29 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You will see on the [[Talk:Munich conference]], for example, we just reviewed other material from the War Crimes Tribunal regarding Nazi infiltration and subversion of the Czech and Slovak regime; here for example, [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-02/], we have evidence of a &amp;quot;Campaign within Czechoslovakia since 1934&amp;quot;; Helen Scott was a member of an organization that was found to be controlled by a foreign government actively seeking the violent removal of the United States Government long before WWII broke out, she was a member of that same organization when she took employment with the United States Government, which was illegal.  And she was the agent of a foreign power when she worked on the staff of the American Prosecutors at Nurermberg.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:So, today we have information available that was not avialable for nearly 50 years.  My point is, much of what we know about all of these events needs to be re-analyized. But first we must assemble the facts before we can do a review.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:56, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
:::The Tribunal did not say that.  It said von Papen was &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;The Tribunal finds that von Papen is not guilty.&amp;quot;  Where in any of this is there a quesion of moral responsibiblity?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::He was found not guilty in the conspiracy to start an aggressive war and the not guilty of a conspiracy to undermine the Austrian government. Did I say otherwise? Can you for once show me where I say either of these. But the judgment also says that he was morally responsible for the Anschluss and the beginnings of the regime, but that couldn't try him for that because it didn't fall under the charter of the tribunal. Please read the judgment carefully. Just because he was acquitted from charges for starting the war, doesn't mean that they acquitted him from blame for his part in Hitler's first administration. To the contrary, the judgment '''explicitly''' states that he shares responsibility for that. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The Nazi's, true to their Socialists roots, viewed themselves in the true Socialist sense of rising up against the powers that be, i.e. in thier view rising up against the Jewish Internaitional bankers conspiracy that killed three monarchies (Hapsburg, Hohenzollern, and Romonov), dismembered Germany, and saddled theme with a war debt.  Marx said the common scum peons, i.e. people like the low life Nazi's would seize power in a Revolution.  In thier view they did just this, they seized power for the Jewish International bankers.  Now to allege then in 1933, at the time of Nuremberg in 1945, or today, that the Nazi &amp;quot;seizure of power&amp;quot; was illigitimate in any sense, is to agree with the Nazi's, because that is exactly how they viewed themselves. They viewed themselves as a rogue regime against &amp;quot;the International Jewish conspiracy.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:19, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::So, what? Where did I say that the seizure of power was illegitimate? Where? Tell me? You are barking up the wrong tree. We are discussing von Papen, and the events that brought about end of the Weimar Republic. It seems that you are unable to stick to the topic, and the topic is who helped Hitler into power. Marx, the conspiracy charges, the Illuminati, the Anschluss, Jewish International bankers, all probably very interesting, but besides the point. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==new img==&lt;br /&gt;
Actually that man in the new img may not be Hitler.  Hitler, as Stalin &amp;amp; Saddam Hussein likewise, were all known to use doubles for some public appearances, the man in that photo may actually be one of Hitler's doubles.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 14:54, 6 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== The evolution of the Hitler article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It used to be a fairly factual article. Now it turns into something like an opinion piece, pointing to everybody CP disagrees with as causes for Hitler. This isn't encyclopedic anymore, and the really bad thing about it is, that one of the main message of the Third Reich gets lost, namely that fairly decent people from all backgrounds can under the influence of a bad ideology, commit heinous crimes. Peace be upon you. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:54, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
:The entire evolution bit is a discussion of the ideology of &amp;quot;eugenics&amp;quot; an &amp;quot;race hygiene&amp;quot;. It is not really at its right spot. All other paragraph refer to actual events. The discussion of evolution should go into a discussion section, or a separate article, probably under the header &amp;quot;Eugenics&amp;quot;. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:10, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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**Know whats funny this is the first conservative i have seen on this wiki that has not been glorified. [[User:Cal05000|Cal05000]] 18:08, 5 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler's wax effigy ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It might interest the primary editors of this article to note that the wax effigy of Adolf Hitler, in a glass case built into a wall, guards the entrance to the Chamber of Horrors at Madame Tussaud's Wax Works in [[London]], [[England]]. Or at least it did in 1988 when I toured London with my family.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:TerryH|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:15, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, probably not releveant to the article, but there was an amusing story run in the press some time ago suggesting that the dummies hair was actually growing! Quite probably nonsense, but I thought it might interest posters! [[User:Josephx|Josephx]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Improved the article==&lt;br /&gt;
Before anyone gets in a dither, I improved the article.  There was just nothing in it pertaining to even the smallest biography of this individual that could be considered useful before.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:17, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What I did not touch upon, and it could be included in future edits, were these:&lt;br /&gt;
*Accusastions of, or toleration for, homosexuality in his early years prior to the Night of the Long Knives.  It was known that Hitler used people to further his own ends.&lt;br /&gt;
*Geli Raubal, and implications she may have had a forced affair with Hitler that led to her suicide.&lt;br /&gt;
*Detailed info regarding his childhood&lt;br /&gt;
And it could use some good quotes.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:33, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== First Sentence ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Since this is locked, I'd just like to point out that it's not actually a sentence. ;)[[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:18, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's more or less a title...and I didn't know it was locked!  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:26, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, the actual first sentence is missing a verb.  Actually the whole first paragraph could use some clean up. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:29, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could do it...just keep in mind that it's an introductory paragraph.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:34, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thanks, I did. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:34, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Need to point out something: Hitler was directly responsible for the outbreak of World War II in Europe, and that has to be emphasized.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:35, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
True, but the introductory paragraph suggests that WWII was a response to the Holocaust. It remains uncertain to this day what was and wasn't known about the attrocities being perpetrated against the Jews et al, but it was the need to counter German Imperialism that led to countries becoming involved in the war, not, as much as we would like to believe, a moral stance against the shoah. [[User:Josephx|Josephx]] 12:31, 26 September 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler and against various christian groups ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Hitler and against various christian groups at: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v24/i3/nazi.asp&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 05:57, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== we need to give the various evidences and deal with them in a scholarly manner ==&lt;br /&gt;
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We need to give the cite evidences put forth for Hitler not being a Christian and Hitler being a Christian and give reasoanble scholars commentary on them.  For example, the scholarly debate regarding Hitler's Table Talk, Hitler and the occult, Hitler and paganism, Mein Kempf references to God and Jesus Christ.  I don't believe there is a strong case for Hitler being a Christian and since many atheists trot this out I think there should be a scholarly and reasonable material on this matter at Conservapedia.[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 06:04, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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*Is there some scholarly reason for turning this article about Hitler into one primarily about his religious beliefs, running on forever?  Do you not know how to be concise? Might I suggest a new article for you: &amp;quot;Religious Beliefs of Dictators Down Through the Ages&amp;quot;.  I believe you continue to think this is a Bible wiki. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#1E90FF&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;DC143C&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:22, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hitler time and again cites Darwin &amp;amp; the TOE as the reason why he's not a Christian.  And Hitler summed up Christianity in one word, &amp;quot;stupid.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 12:36, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Yes.  That does not answer my question.  This is not a Bible Wiki, so what you mentioned would be worthy one paragraph.  Without &amp;quot;C&amp;quot; quotes.  --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#1E90FF&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;DC143C&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:02, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Didn't the Nazis burn Darwin's books? Why would Hitler endorse the views of a man whose books he destroyed? '''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#FFCC00&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Scorp&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#773300&amp;quot;&amp;gt;ion&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;'''&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Scorpion|Vote for Pedro]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:15, 19 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I think that it would be fair to say that Hitler believed in a stripped-down, brutal version of Darwinism that was far from being close to Darwin's own beliefs. It is not unsurprising that Hitler should take something and twist it to fit his own abhorrent standards. [[User:Darkmind1970|Darkmind1970]] 10:38, 4 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler was a Vegetarian ==&lt;br /&gt;
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My question is why some people fail to mention Hitler was a Vegetarian and an Anti-Hunting nut.&lt;br /&gt;
:Cause it's not really relevant to anything?[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 15:24, 7 June 2008 (EDT) also, learn what words get capilalized in English. And sign your posts.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 15:24, 7 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler, Creationism, Eugenics, and Evolution ==&lt;br /&gt;
(re posted from earlier)&lt;br /&gt;
The page seems to imply that when Hitler spoke of &amp;quot;favored races&amp;quot; he was somehow invoking evolutionary thought. Evolution theory does not place worth or lack thereof on certain genetic traits, as Hitler did. Are we trying to suggest that racism did not exist before Darwin published his writings? Let us not forget the many places in Mein Kampf where Hitler visualizes his eugenics plan as the fulfillment of '''God''''s Divine Will. And what of the following gems:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. - '''Adolf Hitler''', ''Mein Kampf'', vol. ii, ch. x&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;From where do we get the right to believe, that from the very beginning Man was not what he is today? Looking at Nature tells us, that in the realm of plants and animals changes and developments happen. But nowhere inside a kind shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today. - '''Adolf Hitler''', Hitler's Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
It is not only erroneous to call Hitler an evolutionist, it is, quite frankly, insulting--to suggest a causal connection between scientific theory and genocide. As a secular conservative, I am beginning to wonder: Is Conservapedia really about promoting conservative values (financial responsibility, economic security, etc.) or about trouncing on people's beliefs? Shouldn't conservatives of all beliefs be working together instead of dividing each other in this ridiculous way?&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Stirlatez|Stirlatez]] 22:37, 29 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:If anyone is being divisive, it is you. Instead of trawling around for quotations to rip out of context, try making more substantive contributions to this site. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 13:15, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The Nazi's also banned &amp;quot;6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).&amp;quot; http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/burnedbooks/documents.htm --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 13:09, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Note the qualifier. Social Darwinism does not come into that. And learn how to use apostrophes. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 13:15, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: That is absolutely correct, I did use an apostrophe wrong; I rewrote the sentence and the apostrophe became obsolete. I think that social Dawinism comes in to that to the entire extent that Hitiler's philosophy is based on Darwinian evolution, in that it doesn't at all. Bottom line The Nazi's didn't believe and or like the works of Darwin. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 16:18, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Evolution works with environmental selection and a [b]diversity of gens[/b], something that hitler definitely did not emphasize, this article undermines the credibility of the whole encyclopedia: {{unsigned|DeSouza}}&lt;br /&gt;
::You're not credible, Hitler apologist. You must discount the whole Nazi ideology to believe Hitler and Darwin were not connected in any way.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 16:01, 19 June 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The last paragraph about Richard Dawkins words “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question&amp;quot; is taken totally out of context and turned upside down. Here is the full context that should be given:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When asked a question: “As we speak of this shifting zeitgeist, how are we to determine who’s right? If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?”, his response was: “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question. But whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath.”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Racism and anti-semitism existed long before Darwin's books. One only has to look at slavery in the 1700s, the First Crusade, and the Jewish expulsions from England and Spain. [[User:OneTruth]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Naziism and Homosexuality ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Wasn't Rohm (the leader of the SA) a Homosexual?----[[User:PhilipV|PhilipV]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PhilipV|'' I Support our Troops!'']]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:23, 25 December 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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I doubt it. If he was, he kept it a secret, because homosexuals were one of the groups targeted in the holocaust. - [[OneTruth]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Shouldn't Hitler be listed under liberal==&lt;br /&gt;
Logically it only makes sense. hitler was a Nazi, or national socialist. socialism is a liberal ideology. therefor it is resonible to assume that hitler was a liberal. not to mention the fact that he had numerous traits in common with liberals--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 19:52, 25 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Proof He's An Atheist ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What proof is there that he is an atheist? In Mein Kampf, he actually seems to be a believer. [http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/tp/AdolfHitlerFaithGod.htm] [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 13:04, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm sure you are against classroom prayer and homeschooling as well, just like Hitler. No real Christian would ever kill millions of people, only an athiest would do that. Hitler was a socialist which is an atheistic philosophy--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 13:18, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Maybe you should read the article on [[Evolutionary racism]] - Hitler's only religion was [[Darwinism]], and he took his [[Darwinist]] beliefs to their natural [[holocaust|conclusion]]. [[User:BobCharlton|BobCharlton]] 13:35, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::SayidR, you are jumping to quite extraordinary conclusions. I'm not saying that he's a Christian, I'm saying that he said himself he believed in God. He could believe in evolution and believe in God. Many bishops do. --[[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 13:38, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Not so, no Christian would do such a thing because Christianity is based off of truth and love while Naziism is based off of deception and hate--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 13:56, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I didn't say he was a Christian. I'm just saying that he himself believed in God, as shown in Mein Kampf. You can dodge questions like a liberal, or be a true open source conservative and see the facts. [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 14:13, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
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		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Adolf_Hitler&amp;diff=799406</id>
		<title>Talk:Adolf Hitler</title>
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		<updated>2010-07-30T17:38:32Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Proof He's An Atheist */&lt;/p&gt;
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==Improvement Proposals==&lt;br /&gt;
*'''''Due to vandalism, please post ''MAJOR'' improvement proposals here, in this section. '''''&lt;br /&gt;
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I know you are keen to point out other things, but could the summary maybe mention that he was also ultimately responsible as the commander of the German army for a large number of war crimes, including the execution of POWs, the leveling of civilian cities and the extermination squads killing whole civilian villages. Could we mention that his main philosophy was that enemies of the German people do not possess any rights, which even applied to citizens of Germany. And he did not only use &amp;quot;threat, intimidation, and outright violence&amp;quot; but he had brilliant polemic propaganda. He was, in the beginning elected in a democratic election. He was grossly misunderstanding and abusing scientific theories (Evolution theory may be the most known one which he perverted, but there are other branches of science as well, like medicine).&lt;br /&gt;
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I suggest a summary like this: After gaining power trough polemics and tactics in politics, he systematically undermined the constitution and the civil rights. With his power growing he used increasingly violence and threats. His philosophy was governed by the hate toward enemies of the German people, which he defined by race, religious or political attitude. He was an antisemitist, and explicitely hated Jews. He was responsible for the killings of millions in concentration camps and for war crimes like the use of chemical weapons, execution of POWs, use of extermination squads in conquered regions, and sieges against civilian cities. He defined the term &amp;quot;racial hygiene&amp;quot; in a perversion of science under which marriages between German and non Germans or German Jews had been restricted and which he used to justify killings of disabled and other people (the largest group being the Jews).&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Stitch75|Stitch75]] 00:31, 15 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Path to power ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I see that the Hayek quote got back. So, the paragraph now explains in detail, but briefly, what van Papen did, what Hitler did, what Hindenburg did, all referring to actual events. &lt;br /&gt;
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Then the article quotes Hayek out of context, and unrelated to the rest, to the effect that its is all just the socialists fault. I guess this means Conservapedia thinks that good ordinary Germans are and cannot not be blamed for what happened in the Third Reich. Is this true? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 8:40 (AEST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:It will be integrated.  Hayek is the historical narrator here. Here's more regarding Roosevelt:&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Whatever you do don't integrate it there. It is ruining the article. All paragraphs of the article except for the introduction contain historical facts and no significant interpretion. The paragraphs, The Beginning Of His Political Life, Beer Hall Putsch, Path to Power, Consolidation of Power, Holocaust, 1944 Assassination Attempt, Marriage, and Death all are fairly factual, and the Hayek quote is the only part of it offering a interpretation. If you want to discuss Hayek's contribution to the  discussion on the causes of the Third Reich, do it somewhere else, but not in the factual account. Make an article, introduce a section at the end, whatever. And then, citing Hayek as only scholar with an opinion on this issue is also insufficient. Numerous history wars were fought about this one. [[User:Order]] 31 July, 11:30&lt;br /&gt;
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::&amp;quot;The system he (FDR) blundered us into is more like the managed and bureaucratized, state supported system of Germany before World War I than our own traditional order. Before his regime we lived in a system which depended for its expansion upon private investment in private enterprise. Today we live in a system which depends for its expansion and vitality upon the government. This is a pre­war European importation ­ imported at the moment when it had fallen into complete disintegration in Europe. ...Americans trapped in the economic disasters and the political quarrels of every nation on earth and a system of permanent militarism closely resembling that we beheld with horror in Europe for decades, bureaucrats swarming over every field of life and the President calling for more power, more price­fixing, more regulations and more billions. Does this look like the traditional American scene? Or does it not look rather like the system built by Bismarck in Germany in the last century and imitated by all the lesser Bismarcks in Europe? ...No, Roosevelt did not restore our economic system. He did not construct a new one. He substituted an old one which lives upon permanent crises and an armament economy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:Actually, we already had this discussion, how the ''real'' anti-Semites &amp;amp; racists came from the former territorries of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  [[Franz Leopold Neumann]] of the Frankfurt School of [[critical thinking]] and Chief Nurmberg Prosecution Researcher said it clearly, and most would agree (exept brainwashed Americans who believed wartime Hollywood propaganda and still do), and that is, Germany was the last place in Europe that anyone ever expect the Holocaust to take place.  And that is because nowhere in Europe had Jews been accepted and made as much social progress as in Germany.  The real fact is, it is Germany's lack of development as a Democracy that would respect everybody's rights including minorities, and the lack of citizen participation and involvement, and not racism, is how a foreigner like Hitler could get in power, import his racist ideas from Austro-Hungary which were not commonly held in Imperial or Wiemar Germany, and carry out the program he did. &lt;br /&gt;
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:And as Hayek points out, it is the Socialist who snuffed out any feelings for, or movement toward, a liberal democracy ''prior to WWI''.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:05, 30 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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First, what has FDR to with this discussion? Other than Germany wasn't the only country with a planned economy during WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
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Second, the Emperor and his political allies weren't to fond about liberal democracy either. &lt;br /&gt;
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Third, we had the discussion that they were all Austrians, and is was already debunked, because many of the main centers of Nazi support were in the Lutheran North of Germany. &lt;br /&gt;
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Fourth, don't hide all the time behind Hayek. His work is definitely interesting, especially because he was neither conservative nor socialist, but states in his work &amp;quot;Why I am not a conservative&amp;quot;, that he is an (old-school) liberal, which exists in a different political dimension. Anyway, whatever Hayek might have said, the question is what you think about the matter. Hayek isn't a Conservapedia editor, you are, and you took his sentence out of context, and put it there. So, what is you opinion on this matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, do you say that the Third Reich was Austrian Catholic Socialist venture, and the Germans had no part in it?&lt;br /&gt;
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And as an aside, I'd like to ask you if you are by any chance of North German Lutheran National Conservative descent? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 11:26&lt;br /&gt;
:So the fact Hayek stated he was not a conservative still does not place fascism at the polar end as an opposite of Communism and Socialism. We are writing historical narrative. We are using primary source, eyewitness accounts of educated and objective observers, not wartime propagandists. A lie that was told in 1933 or 1943, whether it was told by [[Josef Goebbels]], the US [[Office of War Information]], the Hollywood [[Screen Writers Guild]] or [[Franklin Roosevelt]] is as much a lie today as it was in 1933 or 1943. I'm sorry, I make no appologies for this. Facts are facts. We need to explain to the youth of the planet (a) what happened, and (b) ''why'' it happened. Sourcing, and the ''credibility'' of sourcing is paramount. Simply because a myth has been handed down by popular culture or proven liars means nothing. In fact, we have every obligation to correct the record. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:41, 30 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* What has FDR to do with this matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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* I am not sure to which lie you refer? Can you be precise? Do you mean to say that it is a lie that a broad section of German society was bearing responsibility for the Third Reich, and not just a group of Austrian catholic crypto-socialists? Can you answer this please?&lt;br /&gt;
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* I never said that because Nazism wasn't socialist, it must have been conservative. To the contrary. And I didn't say that Socialism was the anti-thesis of Nazism. And therefore good. I repeatedly said that it was neither socialist, nor conservative, and that communism and Nazism were both totalitarian. I said it repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. So don't make stuff up. But just because they were both totalitarian doesn't mean that they are the same.&lt;br /&gt;
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* The article was factual, until you added the Hayek quote giving an interpretation by Hayek. What you report isn't an eyewitness account, but the interpretation of a contemporary.  I agree that should tell the youth first what happened. And that is exactly why the Hayek quote is at it a wrong place, because it not describing a factual event, it is interpretation.  Feel free to add a section on the &amp;quot;history wars&amp;quot; that discussed the causes of the Third Reich. However, I see no need to single out Hayek as only scholar who had something to contribute to the discussion. Other scholars were contemporaries too, and have made equally credible contributions. &lt;br /&gt;
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* And finally, I am still curious if are by any chance of North German Lutheran National Conservative descent? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 13:36&lt;br /&gt;
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#FDR &amp;amp; Hitler articles are part of the WWII series.&lt;br /&gt;
#We're actually not that far off on the [[political spectrum theory]] aspects of National Socialism; the tradional telling is Communism &amp;amp; Fascism are polar opposites.  This isn't what happened.  Two extreme factions of an anti-God ideology got in a big dispute, and 55 million people--many not sympathetic to either side--got killed in the process.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:45, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* What has FDR to do with which parts of the German society bears responsibility?&lt;br /&gt;
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* Nazism wasn't anti-god. Sure, Hitler wasn't what you would a good Christian, and he was anti-clerical when it interfered with his business, but he was a theist, and Nazism as ideology was in favor of &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;. Unlike its socialist roots, this principle has never been been amended. Before you get all excited, I do know that the Nazi view of Christianity is fundamentally different from what the main Churches of today teach. I don't not say that all Christians are Nazis, but just that Nazism wasn't anti-God. &lt;br /&gt;
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* I never said that they are polar opposites, and the article didn't say it either. But just because they are not polar opposites, doesn't means that they are the same. [[User:Order]] 31 July, 15:00&lt;br /&gt;
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::One of the very important aspects of National Socialism is, Nazi's were enlightend Socialists who got thier enlgihtened, athiestic doctrines from Socialsim.  This enlightened, athiestic doctrine, i.e. to overthrow the existing order, or to promote &amp;quot;change&amp;quot; in social organization and institutions that challenged the power of the church, and exisitng Christian morality, such as the commandment to love thine enemies, the Nazi's got from their Socialist roots.&lt;br /&gt;
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::Socialism preached hate and envy, and destruction of alleged &amp;quot;oppressors;&amp;quot; Christianity, or the &amp;quot;old social order&amp;quot; preached tolerence and acceptance of all, Greek and Jew alike. This is where Jewish doctine and Christian doctrine separate--Jews adhered to the old Mosaic command to love thine friend and hate thine enemy.  Christian doctrine, or the &amp;quot;established order&amp;quot; taught &amp;quot;love thine enemies&amp;quot;, even those who oppose themselves.  When God was rejected wholesale in the [[French Revolution]], and Marx &amp;amp; Darwin substituted man having dominion over the earth (as in both Hebrew &amp;amp; Christian scriptures), with the doctrine of ''Natural Selection of '''Favored Races''''', [[class hate]] and [[class war]], and the doctrine that man is an animal, these doctines were applied to those (&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;whom it was percieved&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;) promoted the doctrines. IOW, since man is an animal, if you can kill a dog, you can kill a man. And there is no consequences, final judgement, or higher power to answer to.  '''''It is the enlightened doctrine of Natural Selection of Favored Races being applied in its most logical, and rational, form.'''''  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:47, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* First, it  Nazi apologetic to say that Nazism is the most logical and rational. What essential say is that everybody who doesn't share your views '''must''' kill other people based on race. This is a call for genocide, as I see it. And excuses them. Because you say that there is only one logical conclusion, the Nazis had no choice. Which is not true, because they had a choice. You did put into quotes, so I don't know who said it, but since you post it without comment, I have to assume that it also your opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
:*I didn't say this at all.  I said Nazism is the natural consequence and outgrowth of enlighten Socialism.  That is, more specifically, Naxism is the natural consequence of ''both'' the [[Enlightenment]] and [[Karl Marx]], (and [[Darwinism]], an enlightened subfield of 19th century thought).  Let me put it quite specifically, it is a straight line of deductive reasoning from the Enlightenment which caused the overthrow of the ''Ancien Regime'' to the Holocaust.  There are no divergent paths.  It is the natural process and outgrowth of logical thought along that path.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::What you say is that Nazism was unavoidable, it was the logical consequence of the 19th century. This lets all the people of the hook who helped the Nazis to power in the 1930; this lets all the people of the hook who imprisoned, tortured, and killed people during the Third Reich, and it lets all the people off who invaded other countries an bombed and burned their population in WWII. Because it was inevitable in your reasoning. This a very extreme position withing the already disputed Sonderweg theory, and generally rejected, even by other adherents of the Sonderweg theory. It is generally accepted that some important people had the choice to act differently, but they didn't, and if they had acted different, history would be different as well. [[User:Order]] 2 August, 12:26&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Not at all. What I am saying is worshipping at the altar of science, logic, and reason, in lieu of God, is what the progressive development of 19th century ''thought'' was all about.  And yes, destruction is unavoidable when secularism rejected the Jewish God, that is to say, Jehovah - as a Jewish conspiracy, which is what led [[Marie Antoinette]] to the gallows.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Can you point us to an [[atheism|atheist]] who reject all gods, because they think that it is all a jewish conspiracy? Russel? Dawkins? Or Sam Harris? I guess there is none. They reject gods, because they think that they are inconsistent with what they assume to know about the world. Just because you don't like them, and maybe disagree with their reasoning, doesn't mean that you have to vilify them and make up reasons for their atheism, that are not true. The &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;, advocated by the Nazis, didn't think that it was all a conspiracy, but they thought, that Christ original message, was corrupted by Jews and jewish thought. [[User:Order]] 3 august, 10:00&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I think most of the Nazi's writers certainly make that case, and some point to earlier, 19th century writers to support their arguments.  All of them, Hitler &amp;amp; Hess in ''Mien Kampf'', Goebbels, several others all make this central agrument.  In particular, read the outline of Hitler's unpublished second book, editied by Joachim Fest, tentative title was ''The Monumental History of Mankind''.  It's unmistakeable, &amp;quot;Judah&amp;quot; is responsible for all the planet's problems since time immemorial according to Hitler.  Folks like Voltaire, Marx, and Darwin just paved the path for Hitler &amp;amp; Hess (actually Rudolf Hess did write most of ''Mein Kampf''), Alfred Rosenberg, Houston Stuart Chamberlain, ''et al''.  Betrand Russell and Vladimir Lenin are simply first cousins of this line of &amp;quot;intellectual thought.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:20, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::And I didn't deny that the Nazis and their &amp;quot;Positive Christianity&amp;quot; did blame Jews, to the contrary I '''did'' actually say it. Problem is &amp;quot;Positive Christianity&amp;quot; is theist, not atheist. [[User:Order]] 3 August, 11:35&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You're going to have to prompt my memory with this one, I really have been away from most of these primary sources since the late 1970s.  A link might help, too.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::And just because secular athiesm has unavoidable consequence does not mean at all that that those consequences are justified.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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::::I didn't mean to say that you justified the consequence, I meant to say that it was inevitable, such that in the end no p[erson is personally responsible for the committed crimes.[[User:Order]] 3 august, 10:00&lt;br /&gt;
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* Second. Did you call Nazism enlightened? Just because they respected private property, and sold human beings as raw material to the companies to keep their production running?  &lt;br /&gt;
:*Yes. Nazi's were enlightened atheists who viewed Christianity, as it had been viewed since the time of Voltaire, as a Jewish conspiracy which the Jews themselves did not beleive in.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::(1) What has Voltaire to do with the matter? (2) As is said on this page already, Hitlers view was apparently that the true theistic faith that later became Christianity was corrupted by Jews, but he didn't reject the notion of a god.  He wanted a religion that was cleansed from the jewish influences.  But even if he wasn't an atheist, he still was a bad person. Bin Laden isn't an atheist either. Why are you hung up about proving that he is an atheist, if he said himself that he wasn't. [[User:Order]] 2 August 00:08 (AEST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::See above.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::This really is a digression, some atheists who do not worship Jehovah worship self or Satan as their god.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Third. Even if you keep repeating it, it is wrong to call a movement that had the inscription &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; on their belt when went out to war atheist, or even anti-God. And how do you explain the following sentence from their party program &amp;quot;Die Partei als solche vertritt den Standpunkt eines positiven Christentums, ohne sich konfessionell an ein bestimmtes Bekenntnis zu binden.&amp;quot; Doesn't strike me as anti-God. And I repeat it again, in case you didn't get it, this I do not say that their view of Christianity is in any way compatible with your view on Christianity. &lt;br /&gt;
:*The old &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; argument.  Actually, that was the inscription on the Imperial German belts '''''in the Erste Welt Krieg'''''; the Nazi's substituted the swastika, and later brought back the old imperial inscription.  Further, if you look, it is quotation from the Hebrew scriptures: &amp;quot;Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for '''God is with us'''.&amp;quot; [http://biblebrowser.com/isaiah/8-10.htm] And there is a famous photograph of none other than Ernest Hemingway with a First World War (i.e. no swastika) &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot;  belt buckle in the 1930s.  Do an internet search if you want to see it. Finally, if you're reaching for this argument, it means you're running out of gas.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::* It seem like you can buy those belt buckles of the internet. I don't want to post neo-nazi sites on this page, but google for ''' &amp;quot;gott mit uns&amp;quot; hakenkreuz''', and you will find where you can buy them. &lt;br /&gt;
:::*For the second time &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; is (a) from the Hebrew scriptures, and (b) from Imperial Germany.  Using this logic, we should abandoned the Hebrew scriptures because the Nazi's ripped them off.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:56, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I am not sure how long will take until it get through to you, but I still didn't say that Christianity is Nazism. And I also did not say that Christianity is using Nazi symbols. I said that Nazis used references to God. And that many Nazis, and among them quite likely Hitler himself, were theists. This means that they weren't atheists. You might know that &amp;quot;theist&amp;quot; is not the same as being a &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot;. And you might also know that not being a &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot; following your particular interpretation of the scripture doesn't mean that you are an &amp;quot;atheist&amp;quot;. The Nazis advocated &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;, something which should be different from your version of Christianity, but which is still decidedly theist. This is something different from saying that Christians are Nazis. What is so difficult to understand about that? you are barking up the wrong tree. For days. And I am telling you for days. [[User:Order]] 1 August, 23:58&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Ok, this argument is difficult for obvious reason.  Hitler certainly did not accept the existence or soveriegnty of the Jewish God, Jehovah.  Neither did Hitler accept the old Nordic gods like Wotan, despite some rumors (Ludendorf perhaps did).  Hitler may have believed in some sort of Providence, as Menachim Begin referred to, also.  Who is this &amp;quot;Providence&amp;quot;?  IMHO, it is was most likely Satan, however if Hitler were here, and if you asked him, he'd probably most certainly deny it and laugh, as most Hollywood movie producers would laugh also at the same question.  &lt;br /&gt;
:::::So, we're at the crossroads in examining where a person may actually be admitting to some divine supernatural being greater then themselves that they are in subservience to.  Most spiritually decieved people never even get this far, laboring under the notion that they themselves are god, i.e. that their life purpose is to serve themself.  Now, if a deluded soul arrives at the point where they recognize a supernatural power apart from themself, more powerful than themself, and to whom they owe some sort of debt even, and at the same time pointedly denying this supernatural power is Jehovah, for all intents and purposes we can conclude they are avowed Satanists.  So the only remaining question is, when Hitler survived the July 20, 1944 assassination attempt, and Goebbels convinced Hitler Providence intervened, did he really believe it, or was he just going along with another propaganda scheme?  &lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Whatever you conclude from all this, you're not going to find a very widely accepted doctrine, even among Nazi party members. The vast majority of Nazi party members, and even sympathetic non-party members, were simply garden variety athiestic socialists, who would laugh at the idea they worshipped and/or served Satan.  Yes, there were occultists, like Himmler and many top Nazi's, but the vast majortiy of the public just looked on this behavior not very different from the seances [[Hillary Clinton]] used to hold on the [[White House]] roof.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:40, 6 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::*And what about point 24 in the progam of the NSDAP? About &amp;quot;positive christianity&amp;quot; [[User:Order]] &lt;br /&gt;
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* Thanks for proving my point. I said: '''I do know that the Nazi view of Christianity is fundamentally different from what the main Churches of today teach''', but you still could help giving me the spiel that Nazism and Christianity is different. Read my postings for a change, instead of making stuff. It seems that you can only argue against stuff I didn't say. [[User:Order]] 1 August, 11:23&lt;br /&gt;
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:*Wikipedia, believe it or not, has a good article on Hanns Kerrl. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Kerrl]  This could be expanded upon, and I hope to do so here in CP.  For now, here's a quote from Hitler in ''Tischgesprache'', 14th December 1941 Midday, &lt;br /&gt;
::*&amp;quot;Kerrl, with the noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....Pure Christianity...is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics.&amp;quot; [p. 145-146]  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:38, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Nice quote. Of course there is a dispute about the &amp;quot;Tischgespraeche itself. whether they took place in the form Kerrl reported. But lets no go down this road. Lets take it at face value. It say that he doesn't like the Christian message of forgivenes and compassion. And guess what, that is what I told now already countable time myself. So why do you keep on hammering this point?&lt;br /&gt;
* Actually, a very nice quote. Because he actually says that he reject Bolshevism wholeheartedly. That the he sees a Bolshevistic aspect in Christianity, and that it is exactly this aspect that is incompatible with Nazism. This quote proves that the Fuehrer himself believed that bolshevism and Nazism were incompatible. You made my point, Rob. Thanks.  [[User:Order]] 1 August 14:00&lt;br /&gt;
:*Yes. Nazism simply replaced the word &amp;quot;bourgeois&amp;quot; in [[Marxist]] rhetoric, with &amp;quot;Jewish&amp;quot;, but all the other rhetoric remained the same (incidentally, the [[DNC]] does this very same thing, instead of &amp;quot;rich Jew&amp;quot;, they simply use &amp;quot;The Rich.&amp;quot;)  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 23:30, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
You didn't answer one my questions, and I am still curious: Are you by any chance of Conservative Lutheran North German descent? [[User:Order|Order]] 23:35, 20 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:I am of mixed race: 50% German 50% Slavic.  I was raised Catholic, but today am moreless a Dispensationalist Christian.  Some roots come from Stetin (Szczecin) which was mixed German/Polish &amp;amp; defintiely devout Catholic when they arrived in America; others come from Slovakia.  And there were &amp;quot;mixed marriages&amp;quot; in the US, i.e. my mothers father was Lutheran.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:08, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
===contemporaneous corroboration===&lt;br /&gt;
Ok, returning to Hayek, whom we use a 1945 quote, let's look at a 1940 quote from a Socialist publication during the [[Phoney War]] which says virtually the same thing Hayek said after Hitler blew his brains out:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;'''From 1905 to 1940'''&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
:'''The downfall of bourgeois democracy in Europe did not begin with Hitler. Hitler is a result not a cause'''. The crisis of Europe first showed itself in the Russian revolution of 1905. That it was a world crisis and not a European crisis was proved by the course of the war in 1914. That war neither ended nor made the world safe for democracy. '''The characteristic feature of the period 1918-39 was the destruction of democracy''' in country after country, with or '''without the violent defeat of the socialist movement''', and the steady preparation for the second imperialist war. '''Without socialism, the war of 1939''', Hitler victory or no Hitler victory, '''must inevitably mean the complete destruction of democracy''' all over Europe, the development of the totalitarian state in America, and still further battles for the re-division of the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:'''The question that faces us, therefore, as Marxian socialists, is to estimate soberly, at this critical moment, what are the possibilities for the socialist revolution''', the only force that can check the descent into the abyss and reverse the process of disintegration. The possibility of an early Hitler victory, the tremendous power displayed by the German military machine, the inevitable demoralization of the anti-Hitler forces in Germany by his uninterrupted march of success – these things undoubtedly have altered the former perspective of a long drawn-out war ending in immediate revolution. Let us, however, before we speculate on the future, examine the past.&lt;br /&gt;
*Source:[http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/marxists/history/etol/newspape/ni/vol06/no04/editorial.htm#s1 ''Blitzkrieg and Revolution''], An Editorial, From New International, Vol.6 No.4, May 1940, pp.83-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And here is the Hayek quote:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;By the time Hitler came to power, liberalism was dead in Germany. And it was socialism that had killed it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Analysis of comparison;''' while Hayek uses the term &amp;quot;liberalism&amp;quot;, the ''New International'' editorial uses &amp;quot;democracy.&amp;quot;  In both, they are talking about the same thing, and they both make reference to the fact that Socialism survived the destruction of liberal democracy.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I guess the highlighting is by you and not by the ''New International''. Where in the text by the socialist publication do they say that they destroyed liberalism or democracy? To the contrary, the article even suggests that without socialism democracy will be destroyed, and the writer even argues that socialists are the only movement capable of saving democracy. Take for example: ''Without socialism, the war of 1939 must inevitably mean the complete destruction of democracy''. No Socialism, no democracy. According the the ''New International''. The fragment that you quoted tell that democracy got destroyed, and then even claims that the Marxist Socialist are the only force that can reverse the process of disintegration. This quote shows clearly that even the Socialist disagree with your interpretation of the Hayek quote. I am not sure why you like to quote material that proves my point. [[User:Order]] 2 august 10:00 (AET)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::The question simply is over blame.  Hayek says socialism destroyed liberalism; the Socialist publication says &amp;quot;The characteristic feature of the period 1918-39 was the destruction of democracy in country after country, with or without the violent defeat of the socialist movement.&amp;quot;  Of course they are not going to take the same position as Hayek, i.e. that they caused it.  But they are observing the same phenomenea, that liberal democracy faded, and socialism survived.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 20:11, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:So all you wanted to say it that democracies in 1920/30s democracies in Europe failed. I don't need Hayek or the New International to tell that. In Italy, Germany, Spain, Russia, and even in Poland and Austria, democracy wasn't going too well. If this is what you want to say both quotes aren't that great to make that point. Given that the other paragraphs in the article are referring to actual events, and not to interpretations from 30 years later, or from a contemporary opinion pieces, you should refer to events in the other countries to make your point.  [[User:Order]] 2 august 18:00&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::A reading of both documents is illuminating (and other materials could support it, too).  We extracted just one sentence from Hayek, but the whole paragraph sheds even more light, and other quotes, too. Hayek says something to the effect of &amp;quot;fascism is the result when people realize Communism does not work&amp;quot; (to put it another way, Socialism, which evolves into Communism, does not bring democracy, it brings fascism).  ''The New International'' quote above says the same thing, &amp;quot;Hitler is a result not a cause.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 12:58, 2 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is agreed that, if not the idea of fascism, then at least the rise of fascism in Europe was a reaction to communism, especially to the rise of Bolshevism in the Soviet Union. But even for that their are better quotes to find that support this. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what we have now are eight sections on Hitlers life. Look at them one by one:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*  ''The Beginning Of His Political Life'': 2 paragraphs, both on fact and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Beer Hall Putsch'': 2 paragraphs on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Path to Power'' 2 paragaphs on fact and events. And '''one''' sentence of interpretation, the Hayek quote. &lt;br /&gt;
* ''Consolidation of Power'': 4 paragraphs on fact and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Holocaust'': 2 paragraphs on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''1944 Assassination Attempt'': 1 paragraph on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Marriage'' : 1 paragraph on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Death'' :: 1 paragraph on facts and events. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Altogether 15 paragraphs on facts and events, and one single unrelated sentence that says only indirectly what you actually want to say, namely that fascism was a reaction to Bolshevism. This is not the way to go. The right thing to do would be to remove the Hayek quote from where it is, and if you insist on discussing the causes, a separate section on what scholars said about the causes. And Hayek isn't the only scholar you should mention. Taylor, Turner, Dawidowicz and even Goldhagen come to mind, and there are numerous others. But an isolated blurb, whose meaning isn't obvious after first reading, isn't the way to go.  [[User:Order]] 6 august 10:20&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, to say fascism is a &amp;quot;reaction&amp;quot; can be somewhat misleading.  What we know is, that communism and fascism ''do not'' represent polar opposites; fasism is the end result of a ''process'' who's original aim is that socialist utopia called 'communism'.  The process goes something like this: a liberal society embraces socialism; socialism smothers liberalism (the socialist ideal of the collective being greater than the individual stamps out progress on the road to the Rights of Man); socialism's ultimate goal is communism, but when the people realize communism is only a dream, fascism is the end result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Where does 'reaction' implies polar opposites? Where? Every person in his right mind knows that both were totalitarian. [[User:Order]] &lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem with this one is the usual misinformation taught at the junior high school level in  definition of &amp;quot;reactionary;&amp;quot; while on one level, fascim indeed was a &amp;quot;reaction&amp;quot; to communism, it was actually part of a progressive process, not a reactionary polar opposite.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:There are no polar opposites, liberalism devolves into socialism, socialism evolves into communism, and communism ultimately evolves into fascism.  I have another eyewitness source who uses the phrase &amp;quot;Red fascism.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:20, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You are applying the cold-war and 1980's US definition of &amp;quot;Liberal&amp;quot;, because actual Liberals of that time, and Hayek is a prime example, would  strongly disagree with you. They would probably hit you with a stick. Liberals like Hayek were firmly the opposed to both socialism and fascism, because both were totalitarian. Also it is provably wrong to say that people first embraced socialism, before they became fascists. Many embraced fascism right away, from being national conservative, or monarchist, or whatever other -ism you had in that time. Often out of fear of Bolshevism. [[User:Order]]  6 august 11:30&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I agree the contemporary, popular use of the term &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; is a misnomer, particularly in the United States.  The correct term is &amp;quot;socialist,&amp;quot; even with its US shading to mean &amp;quot;treasonous,&amp;quot; which is becoming more apparant as time goes by.  It is unfortunate, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman, and Boris Yeltsin, all [[classical liberal]]s, did somewhat rehabitilate the term in the 1980s &amp;amp; early 90s, but the old perjoritives all came back to stick (most probably through Rush Limbaugh and the lifting of the [[Fairness Doctrine]], which is very well explained in CP's entry).  FWIW, it looks like we're stuck with the pejoritive, contemporary American meaning of the term liberal.  Of course, the [[MSM]] and the [[DNC]] have been of little help in clarifing its real meaning.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==von Papen==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I see that the Hayek quote is still in there. I also saw that you portrayed the period of imperial Germany as one in which it was a socialist paradise. And also there you quote Hayek. Hayek would hit you with a stick for this, because he knew perfectly well that this is plain ridiculous. Imperial Germany was Bismarck, Kulturkampf, Nationalismus, Demokratiedefizit, Sozialistenerlaesse, Sozialversicherung, Flottenausbau, Wilhelm Zwo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And when it comes to the beginnings of the Third Reich you might want check which party van Papen belonged to, which parties did vote, under pressure but they did, in favour of his empowerment laws, which party the rest of Hitlers first cabinet belong too, which parties were part of the Harzburg front, the political background of Hugenberg, Schacht, and others who actually helped Hitler to power. You can impossibly claim that it was all just a socialist endeavor. But it seems that fact don't count here, while I had hope that we could keep spin out of the a subject as important as Hitler. Peace be upon you. [[User:Order|Order]] 20:08, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Interesting premise; one of the charges against von Papen at Nuremberg was he was part of the Nazi conspiracy, but as you just pointed out, he was never a member of the Nazi Party.  Why can't these things ever be discussed dispassionately?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:32, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Exactly, my point. He wasn't a member of the Nazi party, he was a prominent member of the Zentrum party, a Catholic Party, and he still helped Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:06, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So, dare I ask the question, is it unfair to refer to him as a &amp;quot;Nazi War Criminal&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 23:26, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
It might be unfair, not sure what the Nuremberg Trial decided.  Did I call him &amp;quot;Nazi War Criminal&amp;quot;? To the contrary, the point is that he probably isn't, but that he was a fairly normal German centrist politician, who still helped Hitler into power.  [[User:Order|Order]] 23:38, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Truth is, he really had a disdain for Hitler, and Hitler didn't care much for von Papen either.  And their mutual distrust and resentment had little to do with politics.  It was a class difference.  Von Papen regarded Hitler as an ill-mannered low-life, and Hitler thought von Papen an artistocratic snob.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:21, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:There is famous newsreel footage with no audio of [[Treaty of Munich]] that reveals the difference between the two.  Von Papen and Hitler are leading the guests which include Ciano &amp;amp; Chamberlain into a room.  Hitler plops himself down in a chair, while von Papen observes the diplomatic nicities of remaining standing until all the guests are in the room and seated.  Hitler clearly is embarassed the moment he sits down and sees von Papen remaining standing, and its all caught on film.  He knows he looks crude, rude, selfish, and inexperienced in just simple manners, let alone protocol, or &amp;quot;high class&amp;quot; manners. And it's almost as if he feels deliberately tricked by von Papen into making himself look bad. Very revealing, if uyou ever get a chance to see it. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:30, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
So, van Papen didn't even like this guy, and still helped him to get to power, and worked for him until Munich. So, we found already one person who wasn't an ideologue but was still working for the third Reich.  [[User:Order|Order]] 00:36, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::So the Foreign Minster of the Third Riech wasn't even a Nazi, was not one of the 22 Nazi War Criminals at Nuremberg (although history remembers him that way), was found innocent at Nuremberg of being part of the Nazi conspiracy to (a) sieze power (b) make aggresive war (c) etc., although you persist in making that charge. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:03, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Did the Nuremberg trail say that it was a conspiracy? I doubt so. And indeed, van Papen helped Hitler to power, I guess there is little discussion about it. One might argue about his motivation, but seems to not much of a mystery either. [[User:Order|Order]] 04:21, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes it did.  The [[Treaty of Munich]] was a &amp;quot;conspiracy against Peace&amp;quot;, as well as all the other events (re-occupation of Rhineland, Invasion of Poland, etc.)  Then there was &amp;quot;conspiracy to wage aggressive war&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
:One should read the Nuremberg Indictment in its entirety [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count.htm].  It really is not that long.  And it sets out all the major issues to be dealt with prior and afterwards. (One writer has explained why the charge of &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot;, Britian needed it to CYA for thier policy of appeasement, i.e. Britian couldn't live up to treaty obligations because it was a victim of a conspiracy--and von Papen's aquittal addresses that argument).&lt;br /&gt;
:You will see, for example, the Katyn massacre.  Peculiar, isn't it, that while the Western Powers knew this Soviet charge was false, and that indeed one of the Administators of Justice in this case himself was guilty of the charge, allowed it to become part of the historical record (this record, which then was resurrected in the mid 1990's as the model of Administering International Justice for War Crimes); also, after reading the horrors that the Soviet's present, we almost get comic relief at France's idea of Crimes Against Humanity, like plunder of property [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count3.htm#sec8e]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Wine..................................................................7,647,000 hectolitres.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Champagne...................................................87,000,000 bottles&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Beer...................................................................3,821,520 hectolitres&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Various kinds of alcohol.................................1,830,000 hectolitres &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The myth of France as a &amp;quot;Great Power&amp;quot; (or for that matter, a &amp;quot;victim&amp;quot; when France provided more manpower, and more [[GDP]] to the Nazi cause than it did to defend, or liberate, itself, is something that at some point needs to clarified in the English language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Another point, the various charges of &amp;quot;mass deportation of populations&amp;quot;, while Germans were being deported east of the Oder-Niese, the Keelhaul Agreement, the Crimean Taters, the Volga Germans etc. etc. etc. were occuring, has never been addressed (outside of Solzhenitsyn's ''Gulag Archipeligo''), or &amp;quot;systematic malnutrition&amp;quot;, which Lenin &amp;amp; Stalin perfected long before Hitler adopted [[Bolshevik]] methods.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:42, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Treaty of Munich]] happened after the seizure of power. And saying the this treaty was &amp;quot;a conspiracy against peace&amp;quot;, is also something slightly different than claiming that &amp;quot;Nazism is a conspiracy&amp;quot;. And the rest are tangents. The question was still about who helped Hitler to power, not what happened afterwards or elsewhere. And von Papen was still one of the people who brought Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:04, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Unfortunately, all we have is the historical record.  And the Nuremberg trial rendered its verdict.  You are arguing the case that everyone deficient in psychic powers in 1933 is complicit in genocide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not unlike the recent book on IBM; because Nazi's purchased IBM equipment, all the shareholders, employees, and Board of Directors past and present who &amp;quot;did business with the Nazi's&amp;quot; are complicit in genocide.  By this line of argument, if Nazi's purchased Crest Toothpaste and Charmin Toilet Paper, Crest Toothpaste and Charmin Toiler Paper likewise &amp;quot;did business with the Nazi's.&amp;quot;  Don't forget Hitler's shoeshine boy, he must have been involved, too.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:25, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Did I somewhere say that van Papen is responsible for genocide? I agreed that the Nuremberg trial is probably the instance that had to decide on this. So but what you say that that van Papen is as responsible for Hitlers rise to power as Hitler shoe shine boy. Did the shoe shine boy go to Hindenburg and convince him to make Hitler chancellor? I doubt it. What I see that you go on all kinds tangents, just because you are unable to accept the historical fact that there were centrist and conservative politicians who helped Hitler to power. [[User:Order|Order]] 18:44, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's the probelm: Hitler was legally came to power under the then Wiemar Constitution.  He overwhelmingly won a popular election as well.  The Wiemar Constitution wasn't even indigenous, it was imposed as a &amp;quot;liberal reform.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Now, if you are to allege that Hitler, a common scum, came to power outside of some secret Masonic Illuminati cabal that really controls things, and therefore Hitler and the Nazis claim on power was illigimate, we have a problem there.  As it is, Hitler was never invited by the French government to visit Paris anytime from the day he came to power. Why is this? Because he was illigitmate? Because he was outside of a clique of insiders who determine who should hold power?  Do you see where this line of rhetoric is going to lead you?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:31, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You try to get the discussion on all kinds of tangents, like whether the constitution was indigenous, Masonic Illuminati, French inviting Hitler for supper, IBM, Crest tooth paste. Rob, you are alleging all kinds of things that I never said, and that frankly do not even matter. Fact is Hitler came to power under the Weimar constitution. Did I say otherwise? I don't think so. Fact is also that he didn't win a majority of seats, so he needed the help of others. And van Papen was one of then who helped. And Hugenberg another. BTW: While van Papen wasn't found guilty in the Nuremberg trial to be one of the main criminals, he was sentenced to 8 years in prison during denazification for his role as collaborator and enabler. Why is it so hard for you to admit the fact that there were conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. No, you rather talk about Illuminati to not to have admit this simple fact. [[User:Order|Order]] 21:56, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So, welfare queens &amp;amp; labor unions help Bill Clinton get into power, despite the fact he sold them down the river with NAFTA &amp;amp; Welfare Reform.  Do you think they might have voted any different if they knew they'd be &amp;quot;stabbed in the back&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:00, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
For discussing Bill Clinton, go to the entry [[Bill Clinton]]. We are discussing Hitler's path to power. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:02, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:OK. What's wrong with this text: &lt;br /&gt;
:*''After a series of minority cabinets former Chancellor van Papen convinced President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler to become Chancellor in a coalition government with the national conservative party. Van Papen expected the nation would recognize Hitler to be a fraud within a few months in government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seems to say what you want it to say.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No surprise. I wrote it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Problem is still the Hayek quote that you took out of context. It suggests that the path to power was purely a socialist endeavor. However, and I cite you citing me:&lt;br /&gt;
*''After a series of minority cabinets former Chancellor van Papen convinced President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler to become Chancellor in a coalition government with the national conservative party. Van Papen expected the nation would recognize Hitler to be a fraud within a few months in government.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, it wasn't just the socialists who brought Weimar down. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:11, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:What Hayek is saying is liberalism, in the classic sense, was weakened to non-existent to oppose Nazism.  And your use of conservative here likewise is problematic; the titled nobility of Germany, or for that matter all of Europe, is &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; in the European sense.  As we've had this discussion elsewhere, the US Constitution expressly prohibits the government from conferring titles.  So the express meaning of the term here, &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; to refer to von Papen and others is wholely out of context in attempt to draw a parallel to contemporary American conservativism.  &lt;br /&gt;
:Shame on you, Order, I have more respect for you and your skills than this feeble reasoning your pushing.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:19, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Classic liberalism was indeed weakened, and the permanent attacks from both sides of the spectrum didn't help. But where did the liberals go? Some went left, other went right. My use of &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; is fairly consistent with the use by the people in question themselves. The DNVP, the German National People Party, was for example the legitimate successor of the pre-WWI Konservative Partei, the Conservative Party. This is the party that helped Hitler to a majority of seats in parliament. Same holds for von Papen, he was from the conservative wing of the Zentrum party. I said it a few times in this thread already that contemporary US interpretations of 'left' and 'right' don't apply to the 1930s in Germany, so I am not sure what you are complaining about.  And there is no shame in pushing the fact that there were also conservative politicians in Germany who made didn't mind that Weimar failed, who didn't shed a tear when Hitler came to power. One of the lesson of the Third Reich is that if you fail to fix an imperfect democracy for short term political gain, you might end up with something worse in the long run. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:32, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This is an interesting discussion. Truth is, its been many years since I've reviewed any of these source materials in detail.  Likewise I did read von Papen's memoirs many many years ago, and am familiar with his case.  Seems much of this discussion only grabs tidbits from this or that source, usually out of context, so let's make some effort to set the materials before us (incidentally, von Papen was sentenced to 8 years, yet served less than two; and this is not the place to go into why he was tried a second time after being aquited the first time).&lt;br /&gt;
::There's is nothing special about it. The Nuremberg Trials where aimed at the top of the regime, while the Denazification was aimed to determine the involvement of all people who held office, 2.5 million people in the western Germany alone. He probably was sentenced as 'offender'. The majority were judged to be 'followers', or even acquitted. Von Papen obviously wasn't. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:34, 27 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:::He was tried twice because of the outrage over the verdict.  Double jeopardy goes against Anglo-American jurisprudence.  Even the Soviet Judges could not find conspiracy on his part.  And when the poltical situation changed in 1949, so did the second verdict against von Papen.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:38, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The Soviets didn't agree with the judgment of the Nuremberg trial and wrote dissenting Opinion[http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-dissenting-von-papen.html]. The second trial was in a civil court, and I guess it happens also in the US that someone is found not guilty of criminal charges, but gets convicted in civil court nevertheless. But I couldn't find much about the second trial, so I trust you that the second trial was a result of public outrage. I guess that proves that while he might have not been guilty in criminal court, he messed up politically. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:11, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:OK, let's look at the original indictment, and then the Judgement.  Von Papen is indeed charged with all the same things you are charging him with here: &amp;quot;Von Papen Used His Personal Influence To Promote The Accession Of The Nazis To Power. &amp;quot; ''et seqq'' [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-02/nca-02-16-18-index.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Let's look at the Judgement: &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933, in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January;&amp;quot; Wikipedia reports &amp;quot;The central role that Papen played in Hitler's appointment as Chancellor in January 1933 was reflected by Papen's indictment at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trial, though he was acquitted on formal reasons, the tribunal deciding that his &amp;quot;political immoralities&amp;quot; were not under its jurisdiction.&amp;quot;  This of course, is totally false, as the Nuremberg Judgement clearly, clearly states: &amp;quot;The evidence leaves no doubt that von Papen's primary purpose as Minister to Austria was to undermine the Schuschnigg regime and strengthen the Austrian Nazis for the purpose of bringing about Anschluss. To carry through this plan he engaged in both intrigue and bullying. But the Charter does not make criminal such offenses against political morality, however bad these may be. &amp;quot; [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-defendants-von-papen.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Conlcusion: (a) von Papen's &amp;quot;political immortality&amp;quot; (singular), as rendered by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, related to the Anschluss, '''''and not the Nazi's regimes rise to power in Germany.'''''  Further, the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal fails to make any mention whatsoever about any sort of complicity in conspiracy or for that matter anything about his role in helping Hitler gained power. All the Tribunal found, as cited above, is &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; with the final verdict, &amp;quot;The Tribunal finds that von Papen is not guilty under this Indictment, and directs that he shall be discharged.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:So lets get the facts in order before we even discuss making generalizations.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:03, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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So, we still agree that he wasn't one of about 20 people that were found guilty as war criminals in the Nuremberg Trial. Thanks for posting the judgment. The second paragraph of the judgment refers exactly to what we are discussing here.  &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933, in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January, 1933 &amp;quot;. That he was found not guilty for his role in the Anschluss is another matter. That happened a few years later. Thanks again for posting the official judgment which essentially confirms what I said. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:17, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So what was he guilty of as &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; since contrary to ''both'' you ''and'' Wikipedia's claim, the Tribunal found this '''''did not''''' even  constitute an offense against &amp;quot;political morality&amp;quot;, let alone a crime, or conspiracy?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:38, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I still didn't say that he was part of the conspiracy to start an agressive war. And why should we care what Wikipedia says. The tribunal had to determine which people were responsible for the ''aggressive war''. It judged that it could not be established beyond reasonable doubt that von Papen was involved in planning an aggressive war. That is why they acquitted the charges. However, the tribunal found him politically responsible, but that under the charter of the tribunal, they couldn't convict him for &amp;quot;such offenses against political morality, however bad these may be&amp;quot;. Anyway, this all refers to the Anschluss, and we where talking about his involvement in Hitler's path to power. And here the judgment states clearly that von Papen helped Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:59, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Big deal. There was no crime in it.  In fact, Hitler came to power legally.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Now, when the Tirbunal sat down in November 1945, they brought up all this conspiracy stuff about a &amp;quot;siezure of power&amp;quot;; as the trial progressed, it became fairly obvious there may have been &amp;quot;backstairs&amp;quot; dealings, but that how the sytem works, even under the US Constitution.  By the time the verdict was reached, the Judges were faced with the sad fact that Hitler abided by the rules to &amp;quot;sieze power.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:Now many peolple have never been happy with these facts, and wish to condemn Hitler &amp;amp; everybody connected with from his mothers womb for all that followed.  The German people today speak of the &amp;quot;Nazi seizure of power&amp;quot;, obviously to take comfort themeselves in denial because the truth is he came to power Consitutional, by democratic means, and the people voted for him.  But its easier for contemporay Germans to play the role of victim along with everybody else.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then your argument, that somehow everybody involved in his ascention was illigitimate; this really itself sounds like Nazi rhetoric. Cause the root of this arguement is that Hitler was unnapporved by the Jewish-Masonic conspiracy that controls and decides who is legitimate.  And this is the very argument you are putting forward.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:23, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Where do I say that the Nazis seizure of power overcame the German people? Where did I say that it was an illegitimate action? And most important where did I use Nazi rhetoric? Don't make stuff up stuff that I didn't say. Or show me where.&lt;br /&gt;
* As a German myself I can tell you that just a few Germans comfort themselves with the myth that it was an illegal power grab. The failure of Weimar is taught and discussed in great detail, including the decline of liberal democracy, the failure of democrats to work together, the anti-democratic forces on both sides of the spectrum, and also the role (and call it naivety) of von Papen and the likes when it came to Hitler. Don't make up stuff about how the end of Weimar is discussed in Germany.&lt;br /&gt;
* It was about political and moral responsibility all the time. You went on all kind of tangents, like the war tribunal, and whether von Papen was a war criminal. The question wasn't if von Papen was a War Criminal, but if he and other conservative politicians have a share in the political and also moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power.&lt;br /&gt;
* You bring up the in the Illuminati stuff without reason. If your best bet is to bring up weird conspiracies that I didn't mention, your arguments must be poor. And then on top of it you claim that I use Nazi rhetoric. &lt;br /&gt;
* Hitler came to power through legitimate means because he got help from others. And these other were conservative politicians like von Papen and Hugenberg. No need to tell you that Von Papen was Vice-chancellor, and Hugenberg Minister in Hitler first administration. &lt;br /&gt;
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You are unable to admit that the rise of Hitler was not just a socialist venture, but that there were also conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. Maybe you can answer the following question. Who bears a greater political and moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power: Carl von Ossietsky, a  very controversial socialist in the Weimar Republic, who was sentenced for treason in the 1930? Or von Papen who convinced Hindenburg to give Hitler a try? And who helped Hitler to consolidate his power, and who was Vice-Chancellor, when his government put von Ossietsky in a labor camp? The guy who got the Nobel peace price in 1935, or the guy who was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment after the war? The guy who died in 1938 from tuberculosis he got while he was forced to drain swamps, or the guy who died in 1969 of old age in his mansion? The socialist pacifist with a questionable ideology, or the conservative politician with a questionable role during the Third Reich? Not an easy question, but spare us long tangents please, just who bears more responsibility, von Ossietsky or von Papen for Hitler's rise to power? [[User:Order|Order]] 08:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:*''where did I use Nazi rhetoric? ''&lt;br /&gt;
::*In the Nazi view, the [[Treaty of Versailles]] was a Jewish conspiracy that destroyed the monarchy, dismembered Germany, and established a Constitutional Republic.  This &amp;quot;Jewish Conspiracy&amp;quot;, in the Nazi's view, dictated ''who'' the administrative powers in Germany would be, and what German domestic armament policy, and foreign policy would be.  The Nazi's viewed themselves as &amp;quot;seizing power&amp;quot; from this Jewish-Illuminati International bankers conspiracy when Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933.  However, the Nazi's were not strong enough to win the Chancellorship and Parliamentary elections, so it was done in a coalition with other parties, some democratic.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::In the Nazi view, there was a second &amp;quot;seizure of power&amp;quot; after the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; from the International &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot; that &amp;quot;dictated&amp;quot; who would govern Germany; power was seized away from the Nazi's coalition partners when parliamentary rule was ended.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::When the Nuremberg Tribunal met, Prosecutors brought forward some of the Nazi's own rhetoric, how they had &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; in violation of both International conventions under Versailles, and the Weimar Constitution.  Charges of &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot; were leveled, that all involved had violated International conventions under Versailles, and the Weimar Constitution in the Nazi's assent to power in 1933.  The Judges, including Soviet Judges, soon realized, that to render this verdict would be to rubber stamp the validity of Nazi propaganda.  That to adjudicate the Nazi regime as illegitimate from day one would be to validate the Nazi claim that foreigners and International agreements such as Versailles were indeed the controlling instruments that stripped Germany of its sovereignty.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Where do I say any that the Nazi seizes the power from an international conspiracy? Where? Where did I bring up the Illuminati? You say that I use Nazi rhetoric, while I didn't say any of those things. Show me otherwise. This is a challenge.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::To the contrary, I was always pointing to his coalition partners. Do not make up stuff that I never said. Otherwise, show me.[[User:Order|Order]] 19:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You might as well blame a constitutional democracy for Hilter's rise, because that is exactly what happened.  The system was designed for coalition governments in the absence of an absolute majortiy.  Bottomline again, the coalition parnters were not Nazi's; if they were Nazi's they would have quit thier minortiy parties and joined the Nazi party.  But that did not happen.  Instead, once Hitler became Chancellor, he ignored and violated thier rights, too.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::So, did I say otherwise? After the Hitler came to power, some politicians from conservative did actually join the NSDAP. Anyway, bottomline is indeed that his coalition partners weren't Nazi's, but conservative politicians like von Papen. As I said from the beginning of this thread. {{unsigned|Order}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:*''why should we care what Wikipedia says.''&lt;br /&gt;
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::*A few years ago I commented in Wikipedia on the large volume of material being brought over from the German Wiki that persistently referred to the &amp;quot;Nazi seizure of power.&amp;quot;  The Nazi's in fact did not seize power in January 1933, they came to power under provisions of the legitimate Weimar Constitution.  The Nazi's ''did'' seize power from their democratic coalition partners when they ended parliamentary rule.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Contemporary Germans have maintained the that they, too, were victims; that the Nazis came to power illegitimately, when in fact they were supported at the ballot box by many Germans.  They were victimized later, when parliamentary rule ended, and the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; from their coalition partners ''after'' January 1933.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The bottomline, while maintaining the fiction that the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; in January 1933 is comforting to absolve complicity among democratic forces that were coalition partners, it really is nothing more than the Nazi POV.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 15:26, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Did I say any of this? Didn't I say the opposite. I was permanently pointing to Hitlers coalition partners. Don't make stuff up or show me otherwise. Or is this supposed to be proof that Germans at large think that the Hitler came to power illegally, by pointing to an experience you had on Wikipedia a few years ago. If you trust Wikipedia that much, go to the German version of Wikipedia, and what they say about Machtergreifung. I will be edited mostly by German editors, and I doubt that it says that it was an illegal act to get power from back an international conspiracy. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Your point is along the lines that, &amp;quot;Why did von Papen, et al, form a coalition government ''with'' the Nazis, ''against'' the Comintern apparat?&amp;quot;  This question is easy to answer.  While the murderous nature of the Comintern organizations against ''thier'' imaginary enemies was known in 1933, no one knew the Nazis would adopt and apply Bolshevik methods against the Nazis imaginary enemies to the extent that they did after 1933.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 20:32, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Where did I say that von Papen should have sided with the Comintern. Where? It is generally agreed that at the beginning of 1933 there was no need to form a coalition government with the Nazis. The Nazi had just lost their first state elections, and the economy was picking up. Von Papen had to convince Hindenburg. Sure, von Papen probably didn't have the foresight that it would almost cost his life in the Night of Long Knives, nor that it would lead to a total war. But he rather than trying to fix the democracy, he was actively pushing to get somebody into power, who was fairly open about his aims to abolish democracy. Fascism was known, and von Papen knew it too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::So von Papen used democratic means to destroy democracy?  I think you may be mischaracterizing von Papen's political views.  Von Papen was an anti-Communist.  Not all anit-Communists are fascists, however in this instance a coalition between some democratic elements was made with fascists to prevent Soviet-backed Comintern subversion.  You repeatedly speak of &amp;quot;bares responsibiltiy;&amp;quot; the Weimar Constitution itself bares responsibility, it did precisely what it was designed to do.  Hitler was speaking of rebuilding the German military; industrialists &amp;amp; the miltiary liked this idea.  That does not make them racists or advocates of genocide.  That makes them partners in a coalition government with Nazis, nothing more and nothing less.  When the Nazis began diabusing ''thier'' rights, some joined the nationalist movement, some did not.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::In sum, once again, the Tribunal rendered its verdict, not just regarding von Papen, but '''also''' regarding the whole question as to conspiracy &amp;amp; morality around the Nazis and Hitler's rise to power.  What it really does look like is, other than von Papen being Catholic, what crime or moral offense is he guilty of?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::I didn't blame him for being catholic (see below). And the tribunal said in its verdict that Von Papen bears responsibility for the events in that got Hitler into power. The tribunal acquitted Von Papen for other charges. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:42, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::This brings me back to the question:  Who bears more responsibility for the getting Hitler into power: von Papen or Ossietsky? [[User:Order|Order]] 21:44, 27 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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:The question that I posed remains unanswered. Who, in your opinion Rob, has bears more responsibility for Hitler's rise to power. Von Ossietsky or Von Papen. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:20, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Since you keep referring to things I never said, a brief list of thing we did agree on, and a list of things I actually did say.&lt;br /&gt;
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First, we agree that von Papen was&lt;br /&gt;
* a catholic&lt;br /&gt;
* conservative&lt;br /&gt;
* anti-communist&lt;br /&gt;
* member of the Zentrum Party&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't blame him for any of this. If I'd be living in the 1930s it would probably apply to me, since all of my 4 grandparents were catholic, conservative, anti-communist voters of the Zentrum party. There is no blame in that.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, von Papen has responisbility for his deeds. In particular.&lt;br /&gt;
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* Von Papen revoked as Chancellor in June 1932 the ban on SA and SS. &lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was actively pursuing the end of the Schleicher administration in January 1933.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen then gathered support to get Hindenburg to appoint Hitler chancellor in a coalition government.&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was vice-chancellor in Hitler's government.&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was leading the political alliance of national conservative parties in the March 1933 election, which provided Hitler the remaining seats to get a majority in parliament.&lt;br /&gt;
He shares political responsibility for this. We are not talking a criminal charges, but about political responsibility. For the rise and consolidation of Hitlers power, up to the Empowerment laws, or if you like even up to the Night of the Long Knives, when Hitler got von Papen to resign as vice-chancellor. That he wasn't found guilty of war crimes is another issue altogether. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:25, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Where is there a crime in any of this? How are free citizens exercising their rights in a constitutional democracy a moral offense? And given the alternative, for example revoking the ban on SA and SS to counter the Moscow directed murderers is something you fail to consider, let alone discuss.&lt;br /&gt;
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:There is plenty of information available to condemn the Nazi's with.  Using half truths, innuendo, and falsehoods based upon the Nazi's own falsehoods only impugns the integrity of the historical reporter, and makes all his reporting biased and suspect.  Such is the case with Wikipedia right now, and it may not be their own invention, they may actually be just parroting the lies and falsehoods they've inherited.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The point of propagating and expounding these half truths and falsehoods you actually may have articulated in this discussion; it is not to give accurate historical reporting, nor to gather experience and warning signs for future generations.  It is to twist the facts of history, such as we've seen in the Wikipedia articles, to impugn contemporary imagined political opponents, in this case &amp;quot;conservatives.&amp;quot; How is this being done? (a) refusing to admit the godless socialist nazis rose in a marxist revolution against the powers that be, in thier view, the &amp;quot;Jewish International&amp;quot; financiers who destroyed the Hapsburg, Hohenzollern, and Romanov monarchies which had kept the peace for 100 years; (b) blaming the enemies of Communism, the Church and other anti-Communists, for anti-Semitic fascist ideals and intent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The bottomline here is, using the Nazi's own view of themselves, that they were illegitimate outsiders to the Jewish international cabal that wrote the Treaty of Versailles, illegally and by immoral means rose up and seized power from the legitimate powers that be, i.e. the &amp;quot;Jewish financiers&amp;quot; behind the Treaty of Versailles, to put a spin on history with the real intent to attack modern political opponents with, is unnecessary, and potentially very dangerous.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 10:32, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The discussion isn't about Nazi ideology, and I in particular didn't push any Nazi views that involve a Jewish conspiracy (or show me other wise), and this is irrelevant for the discussion for Von Papen, because he wasn't a Nazi in the first place. But your first paragraph is to the point, so i'll respond to that.	 &lt;br /&gt;
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* ''Where is there a crime in any of this?''. I said repeatedly that we are not talking about criminal charges.	 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''How are free citizens exercising their rights in a constitutional democracy a moral offense?'' Everybody bears responsibility for his deeds, even for the legal ones. This also applies also in politics, and there are countless example of immoral but legal behavior in politics.	 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''And given the alternative, for example revoking the ban on SA and SS to counter the Moscow directed murderers is something you fail to consider, let alone discuss.'' Von Papen was the Chancellor of Germany, and he had access to police and army. I hope that we agree that the SA and SS weren't out to enforce the law, but a fascist mob instead. Von Papen didn't use or need the SA and SS to prevent or solve violent crimes by the communist mob. He legalized it to get political backing from the NSDAP for his minority cabinet. 	 &lt;br /&gt;
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All these acts were legal, sure, but Von Papen did it for political reasons, and carries hence political responsibility for these acts. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:01, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Path to Power (Continued) ==&lt;br /&gt;
You are unable to admit that the rise of Hitler was not just a socialist venture, but that there were also conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. Maybe you can answer the following question. Who bears a greater political and moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power: Carl von Ossietsky, a  very controversial socialist in the Weimar Republic, who was sentenced for treason in the 1930? Or von Papen who convinced Hindenburg to give Hitler a try? And who helped Hitler to consolidate his power, and who was Vice-Chancellor, when his government put von Ossietsky in a labor camp? The guy who got the Nobel peace price in 1935, or the guy who was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment after the war? The guy who died in 1938 from tuberculosis he got while he was forced to drain swamps, or the guy who died in 1969 of old age in his mansion? The socialist pacifist with a questionable ideology, or the conservative politician with a questionable role during the Third Reich? Not an easy question, but spare us long tangents please, just who bears more responsibility, von Ossietsky or von Papen for Hitler's rise to power? [[User:Order|Order]] 08:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Tribunal examined all the questions and rendered its verdict.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 14:46, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::The tribunal said that von Papen shares moral and political responsibility for getting Hitler into power. Cool. So I take it as  admission that it was not just socialism was responsible for the end of the Weimar Republic, but that conservative politicians like von Papen also bear some responsibility. The only reasonable thing to do right now would be to remove the Hayek quote, because as it is quoted it suggest otherwise. You can either do it yourself, or unlock the article and I am happy to remove it myself. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You are still reading this in the verdict that are not there.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:51, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Lets get a third person to read the verdict and see if the second paragraph says &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933 in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January, 1933.&amp;quot; and then to look at the end which says &amp;quot;Under the Charter von Papen can be held guilty only if he was a party to the planning of aggressive war&amp;quot; and he was found not guilty of that charge. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:07, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;--&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's the paragraph condensed:&lt;br /&gt;
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:&amp;quot;The evidence leaves no doubt that von Papen's primary purpose as Minister to Austria '''was to undermine the Schuschnigg regime''' and strengthen the Austrian Nazis for the purpose of bringing about Anschluss....he '''engaged in''' both '''intrigue''' and bullying. But the Charter does not make criminal such '''offenses against political morality''', however bad these may be. Under the Charter von Papen can be held guilty only if he was a party to the planning of aggressive war.....&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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::So, we agree that the tribunal did find him not guilty for his role in the Anschluss, since '''offenses against political morality''' do not fall under the charter. That is kind of exactly what I said. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:39, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now, at the moment I am reading the case of [[Helen Scott]], one of several [[Comintern]] opperatives who &amp;quot;engaged in political immorality&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;intrigue&amp;quot; (haven't found any &amp;quot;bullying&amp;quot; yet).  Who was Helen Scott?  Helen Scott was one of several Comintern opperatives who, as an American citizen, was an agent of the Soviet Union ''and '''was appointed to the staff of American prosecutors at the [[Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal]].'''''&lt;br /&gt;
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Care to collaborate on [[Helen Grace Scott Keenan]]?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 10:37, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'll think about it. But I try to stay focussed, and not get into to much at once. Thanks. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:39, 29 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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:You will see on the [[Talk:Munich conference]], for example, we just reviewed other material from the War Crimes Tribunal regarding Nazi infiltration and subversion of the Czech and Slovak regime; here for example, [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-02/], we have evidence of a &amp;quot;Campaign within Czechoslovakia since 1934&amp;quot;; Helen Scott was a member of an organization that was found to be controlled by a foreign government actively seeking the violent removal of the United States Government long before WWII broke out, she was a member of that same organization when she took employment with the United States Government, which was illegal.  And she was the agent of a foreign power when she worked on the staff of the American Prosecutors at Nurermberg.&lt;br /&gt;
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:So, today we have information available that was not avialable for nearly 50 years.  My point is, much of what we know about all of these events needs to be re-analyized. But first we must assemble the facts before we can do a review.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:56, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
:::The Tribunal did not say that.  It said von Papen was &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;The Tribunal finds that von Papen is not guilty.&amp;quot;  Where in any of this is there a quesion of moral responsibiblity?&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::He was found not guilty in the conspiracy to start an aggressive war and the not guilty of a conspiracy to undermine the Austrian government. Did I say otherwise? Can you for once show me where I say either of these. But the judgment also says that he was morally responsible for the Anschluss and the beginnings of the regime, but that couldn't try him for that because it didn't fall under the charter of the tribunal. Please read the judgment carefully. Just because he was acquitted from charges for starting the war, doesn't mean that they acquitted him from blame for his part in Hitler's first administration. To the contrary, the judgment '''explicitly''' states that he shares responsibility for that. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The Nazi's, true to their Socialists roots, viewed themselves in the true Socialist sense of rising up against the powers that be, i.e. in thier view rising up against the Jewish Internaitional bankers conspiracy that killed three monarchies (Hapsburg, Hohenzollern, and Romonov), dismembered Germany, and saddled theme with a war debt.  Marx said the common scum peons, i.e. people like the low life Nazi's would seize power in a Revolution.  In thier view they did just this, they seized power for the Jewish International bankers.  Now to allege then in 1933, at the time of Nuremberg in 1945, or today, that the Nazi &amp;quot;seizure of power&amp;quot; was illigitimate in any sense, is to agree with the Nazi's, because that is exactly how they viewed themselves. They viewed themselves as a rogue regime against &amp;quot;the International Jewish conspiracy.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:19, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::So, what? Where did I say that the seizure of power was illegitimate? Where? Tell me? You are barking up the wrong tree. We are discussing von Papen, and the events that brought about end of the Weimar Republic. It seems that you are unable to stick to the topic, and the topic is who helped Hitler into power. Marx, the conspiracy charges, the Illuminati, the Anschluss, Jewish International bankers, all probably very interesting, but besides the point. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==new img==&lt;br /&gt;
Actually that man in the new img may not be Hitler.  Hitler, as Stalin &amp;amp; Saddam Hussein likewise, were all known to use doubles for some public appearances, the man in that photo may actually be one of Hitler's doubles.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 14:54, 6 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The evolution of the Hitler article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It used to be a fairly factual article. Now it turns into something like an opinion piece, pointing to everybody CP disagrees with as causes for Hitler. This isn't encyclopedic anymore, and the really bad thing about it is, that one of the main message of the Third Reich gets lost, namely that fairly decent people from all backgrounds can under the influence of a bad ideology, commit heinous crimes. Peace be upon you. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:54, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The entire evolution bit is a discussion of the ideology of &amp;quot;eugenics&amp;quot; an &amp;quot;race hygiene&amp;quot;. It is not really at its right spot. All other paragraph refer to actual events. The discussion of evolution should go into a discussion section, or a separate article, probably under the header &amp;quot;Eugenics&amp;quot;. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:10, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
**Know whats funny this is the first conservative i have seen on this wiki that has not been glorified. [[User:Cal05000|Cal05000]] 18:08, 5 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hitler's wax effigy ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It might interest the primary editors of this article to note that the wax effigy of Adolf Hitler, in a glass case built into a wall, guards the entrance to the Chamber of Horrors at Madame Tussaud's Wax Works in [[London]], [[England]]. Or at least it did in 1988 when I toured London with my family.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:TerryH|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:15, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, probably not releveant to the article, but there was an amusing story run in the press some time ago suggesting that the dummies hair was actually growing! Quite probably nonsense, but I thought it might interest posters! [[User:Josephx|Josephx]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Improved the article==&lt;br /&gt;
Before anyone gets in a dither, I improved the article.  There was just nothing in it pertaining to even the smallest biography of this individual that could be considered useful before.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:17, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What I did not touch upon, and it could be included in future edits, were these:&lt;br /&gt;
*Accusastions of, or toleration for, homosexuality in his early years prior to the Night of the Long Knives.  It was known that Hitler used people to further his own ends.&lt;br /&gt;
*Geli Raubal, and implications she may have had a forced affair with Hitler that led to her suicide.&lt;br /&gt;
*Detailed info regarding his childhood&lt;br /&gt;
And it could use some good quotes.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:33, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== First Sentence ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since this is locked, I'd just like to point out that it's not actually a sentence. ;)[[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:18, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's more or less a title...and I didn't know it was locked!  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:26, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, the actual first sentence is missing a verb.  Actually the whole first paragraph could use some clean up. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:29, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could do it...just keep in mind that it's an introductory paragraph.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:34, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thanks, I did. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:34, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Need to point out something: Hitler was directly responsible for the outbreak of World War II in Europe, and that has to be emphasized.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:35, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
True, but the introductory paragraph suggests that WWII was a response to the Holocaust. It remains uncertain to this day what was and wasn't known about the attrocities being perpetrated against the Jews et al, but it was the need to counter German Imperialism that led to countries becoming involved in the war, not, as much as we would like to believe, a moral stance against the shoah. [[User:Josephx|Josephx]] 12:31, 26 September 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hitler and against various christian groups ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hitler and against various christian groups at: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v24/i3/nazi.asp&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 05:57, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== we need to give the various evidences and deal with them in a scholarly manner ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need to give the cite evidences put forth for Hitler not being a Christian and Hitler being a Christian and give reasoanble scholars commentary on them.  For example, the scholarly debate regarding Hitler's Table Talk, Hitler and the occult, Hitler and paganism, Mein Kempf references to God and Jesus Christ.  I don't believe there is a strong case for Hitler being a Christian and since many atheists trot this out I think there should be a scholarly and reasonable material on this matter at Conservapedia.[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 06:04, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Is there some scholarly reason for turning this article about Hitler into one primarily about his religious beliefs, running on forever?  Do you not know how to be concise? Might I suggest a new article for you: &amp;quot;Religious Beliefs of Dictators Down Through the Ages&amp;quot;.  I believe you continue to think this is a Bible wiki. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#1E90FF&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;DC143C&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:22, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hitler time and again cites Darwin &amp;amp; the TOE as the reason why he's not a Christian.  And Hitler summed up Christianity in one word, &amp;quot;stupid.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 12:36, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes.  That does not answer my question.  This is not a Bible Wiki, so what you mentioned would be worthy one paragraph.  Without &amp;quot;C&amp;quot; quotes.  --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#1E90FF&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;DC143C&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:02, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Didn't the Nazis burn Darwin's books? Why would Hitler endorse the views of a man whose books he destroyed? '''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#FFCC00&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Scorp&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#773300&amp;quot;&amp;gt;ion&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;'''&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Scorpion|Vote for Pedro]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:15, 19 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I think that it would be fair to say that Hitler believed in a stripped-down, brutal version of Darwinism that was far from being close to Darwin's own beliefs. It is not unsurprising that Hitler should take something and twist it to fit his own abhorrent standards. [[User:Darkmind1970|Darkmind1970]] 10:38, 4 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hitler was a Vegetarian ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My question is why some people fail to mention Hitler was a Vegetarian and an Anti-Hunting nut.&lt;br /&gt;
:Cause it's not really relevant to anything?[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 15:24, 7 June 2008 (EDT) also, learn what words get capilalized in English. And sign your posts.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 15:24, 7 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hitler, Creationism, Eugenics, and Evolution ==&lt;br /&gt;
(re posted from earlier)&lt;br /&gt;
The page seems to imply that when Hitler spoke of &amp;quot;favored races&amp;quot; he was somehow invoking evolutionary thought. Evolution theory does not place worth or lack thereof on certain genetic traits, as Hitler did. Are we trying to suggest that racism did not exist before Darwin published his writings? Let us not forget the many places in Mein Kampf where Hitler visualizes his eugenics plan as the fulfillment of '''God''''s Divine Will. And what of the following gems:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. - '''Adolf Hitler''', ''Mein Kampf'', vol. ii, ch. x&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;From where do we get the right to believe, that from the very beginning Man was not what he is today? Looking at Nature tells us, that in the realm of plants and animals changes and developments happen. But nowhere inside a kind shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today. - '''Adolf Hitler''', Hitler's Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
It is not only erroneous to call Hitler an evolutionist, it is, quite frankly, insulting--to suggest a causal connection between scientific theory and genocide. As a secular conservative, I am beginning to wonder: Is Conservapedia really about promoting conservative values (financial responsibility, economic security, etc.) or about trouncing on people's beliefs? Shouldn't conservatives of all beliefs be working together instead of dividing each other in this ridiculous way?&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Stirlatez|Stirlatez]] 22:37, 29 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:If anyone is being divisive, it is you. Instead of trawling around for quotations to rip out of context, try making more substantive contributions to this site. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 13:15, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Nazi's also banned &amp;quot;6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).&amp;quot; http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/burnedbooks/documents.htm --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 13:09, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Note the qualifier. Social Darwinism does not come into that. And learn how to use apostrophes. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 13:15, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: That is absolutely correct, I did use an apostrophe wrong; I rewrote the sentence and the apostrophe became obsolete. I think that social Dawinism comes in to that to the entire extent that Hitiler's philosophy is based on Darwinian evolution, in that it doesn't at all. Bottom line The Nazi's didn't believe and or like the works of Darwin. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 16:18, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Evolution works with environmental selection and a [b]diversity of gens[/b], something that hitler definitely did not emphasize, this article undermines the credibility of the whole encyclopedia: {{unsigned|DeSouza}}&lt;br /&gt;
::You're not credible, Hitler apologist. You must discount the whole Nazi ideology to believe Hitler and Darwin were not connected in any way.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 16:01, 19 June 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The last paragraph about Richard Dawkins words “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question&amp;quot; is taken totally out of context and turned upside down. Here is the full context that should be given:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When asked a question: “As we speak of this shifting zeitgeist, how are we to determine who’s right? If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?”, his response was: “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question. But whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath.”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Racism and anti-semitism existed long before Darwin's books. One only has to look at slavery in the 1700s, the First Crusade, and the Jewish expulsions from England and Spain. [[User:OneTruth]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Naziism and Homosexuality ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wasn't Rohm (the leader of the SA) a Homosexual?----[[User:PhilipV|PhilipV]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PhilipV|'' I Support our Troops!'']]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:23, 25 December 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I doubt it. If he was, he kept it a secret, because homosexuals were one of the groups targeted in the holocaust. - [[OneTruth]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Shouldn't Hitler be listed under liberal==&lt;br /&gt;
Logically it only makes sense. hitler was a Nazi, or national socialist. socialism is a liberal ideology. therefor it is resonible to assume that hitler was a liberal. not to mention the fact that he had numerous traits in common with liberals--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 19:52, 25 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Proof He's An Atheist ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What proof is there that he is an atheist? In Mein Kampf, he actually seems to be a believer. [http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/tp/AdolfHitlerFaithGod.htm] [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 13:04, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm sure you are against classroom prayer and homeschooling as well, just like Hitler. No real Christian would ever kill millions of people, only an athiest would do that. Hitler was a socialist which is an atheistic philosophy--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 13:18, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Maybe you should read the article on [[Evolutionary racism]] - Hitler's only religion was [[Darwinism]], and he took his [[Darwinist]] beliefs to their natural [[holocaust|conclusion]]. [[User:BobCharlton|BobCharlton]] 13:35, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::SayidR, you are jumping to quite extraordinary conclusions. I'm not saying that he's a Christian, I'm saying that he said himself he believed in God. He could believe in evolution and believe in God. Many bishops do. --[[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 13:38, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Democratic_Party&amp;diff=799403</id>
		<title>Democratic Party</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Democratic_Party&amp;diff=799403"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T17:32:53Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;{{AmericanPoliticalParty&lt;br /&gt;
 | party_name=Democratic Party&lt;br /&gt;
 | party_articletitle = Democratic Party (United States)&lt;br /&gt;
 | party_logo = [[Image:democraticpartyusalogo.png|200px]]&lt;br /&gt;
 | website = [http://www.democrats.org www.democrats.org]&lt;br /&gt;
 | headquarters = 430 South Capitol Street SE&amp;lt;br&amp;gt; [[Washington, D.C.]]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;20003 &lt;br /&gt;
 | chairman = [[Tim Kaine]]   &lt;br /&gt;
 | houseleader = [[Nancy Pelosi]] &lt;br /&gt;
 | senateleader = [[Harry Reid]] &lt;br /&gt;
 | foundation = 1832&lt;br /&gt;
 | ideology = range from liberal to moderate&lt;br /&gt;
 | fiscalpolicy = [[Socialist]]/[[Liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
 | socialpolicy = center-liberal&lt;br /&gt;
 | colors = Blue (unofficial)&lt;br /&gt;
 | footnotes =&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Democratic Party''' is one of the two major political [[parties]] in the [[United States of America]]. It is the center-left party. President [[Barack Obama]] and its other leaders are generally [[liberal]], but there are powerful moderate and conservative factions, especially the [[Blue Dogs]] in Congress. The party contrasts with rival [[Republican Party]], which is generally more [[conservative]] and pro-business.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Members of the Democratic Party are known as Democrats. In the 19th century the party was sometimes called &amp;quot;The Democracy.&amp;quot; Today Republicans sometimes call it the &amp;quot;[[Democrat Party]]&amp;quot; as a term of ridicule. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the doldrums after 2000, the party roared back with major gains in 2006, which it expanded in 2008 to sweep control of the national government, and leave the GOP in a state of confusion and decline. The GOP bounced back in 2009, with near-unanimous opposition to contentions Democratic policies, especially as stimulus spending and health care reform. Polls show Obama's popularity began to sink in the summer of 2009.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Democrats currently control the White House and have decisive majorities in the [[111th United States Congress]], together with the majority of state governorships and legislatures and control most large cities as well, while suburbs and rural areas are more likely to be in republican hands.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.multistate.com/Site.nsf/Elections2006PostMaps?OpenPage Multistate.com] Post-Election 2006 Maps&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Polls show 50% of voters identify themselves with the Democratic Party as opposed to 35% for the Republican Party.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=312 Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007] Pew Research Center, 22 March 2007&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The Democratic-majority Congress currently has a 55% negative approval rating, with only 31% expressing approval.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Policies and criticism==&lt;br /&gt;
The views of individual Democrats sometimes diverge from the party's official stance as expressed in its national platform, however unlike the Republican party, the Democratic National Committee has not allowed dissenting opinions to share the podium on matters such as abortion at National Conventions. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_03/005787.php] , http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2005_03/005787.php, March 6, 2005&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Economic policy===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Unemployment.jpg|thumb|241px|right|''Source: Bureau of Labor Statisitcs'' [http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2009/07/anti-stimulus-in-pictures-any-questions.html]]]&lt;br /&gt;
In the field of economic policy, Democrats tend to favor high progressive taxes, more regulation, and higher government spending. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Democratic Party has historically had ties to [[labor union|organized labor]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/913wopoz.asp Paying Dues - The Democrats settle up with their union bosses, [[Weekly Standard]], July 25, 2007 &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[National Education Association]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.nea.org/index.html National Education Association homepage]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; the largest union of public school teachers, is a backbone of the party, supplying the largest number of delegates to its national conventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Democrats typically state that they want to help low-income Americans, however they usually seek to accomplish this by increasing the tax burden on the wealthiest Americans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since passage of the Economic Recovery Act of 2009, [[unemployment]] has increased from below 7% to slightly under 10%.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Foreign and military policy===&lt;br /&gt;
According to its platform, the Democratic Party has the objective of strengthening America.  Democratic national leadership has been accused of being ambivalent about terrorism&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=22045 &amp;quot;Democrats, ACLU Outraged Over Traveler Terrorism Screening Program&amp;quot;] C. Johnson, Associated Press&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and insufficiently patriotic.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0112/01/smn.19.html CNN Saturday Morning News]Transcript: December 1, 2001 &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  A poll conducted by [[Fox News]] released in October 2007 found that 1 in 5 Democrats &amp;amp;ndash; nearly 10 million voters &amp;amp;ndash; think the world will be better off if the [[United States]] were to lose the [[War in Iraq]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299374,00.html Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.S. Loses War], FOX News Poll, October 04, 2007.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The poll found this sentiment 3 to 4 times higher among Democrats than among moderate, centrist, and Republican voters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Education===   &lt;br /&gt;
An organization affiliated with the [[Democratic Leadership Council]] called the [[Progressive Policy Institute]] claims a long-standing opposition to school vouchers.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;21st Century Schools Project Bulletin: Special Edition [http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=110&amp;amp;subsecID=900001&amp;amp;contentID=250630 ''Putting Vouchers in Perspective''], PPI E-newsletter 2 July 2002&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Jonathan Alter of ''Newsweek'' warned that opposition to vouchers might alienate some traditional Democratic voting blocs:   &lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Can wealthy white liberals - many of whom send their kids to private school - really say to poor parents: 'We can have choices, but you must not?'...This is a glaring hypocrisy sitting at the heart of the liberal opposition to targeted vouchers… Right now, Democrats are in a highly compromised position on education.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.edreform.com/index.cfm?fuseAction=newsLetter&amp;amp;sectionID=29&amp;amp;NLissueID=4&amp;amp;articleID=11&amp;amp;altCol=2 Center For Education Reform, Monthly Letter to Friends No. 75], Back to School 2002.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Environment vs Labor===&lt;br /&gt;
Two other important coalition groups also find themselves in direct conflict with each other within the Democratic party coalition--[[Environmentalist]]s and Labor Unions.  While environmentalists support efforts like clean air and alternative fuels, for example, this creates tension with the workers of American automobile manufactures whose jobs are threatened by environmental policies such as increasing regulations and high costs. Such policies can lead to cutbacks and layoffs. Balancing these issues is difficult because some sacrifices of interests must be made by both sides.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Healthcare===&lt;br /&gt;
Democratic leaders have endorsed various [[Democratic Health Care Plans]]; the question in 2009 is whether a new trillion dollar plan can pass in a time of economic crisis. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Therefore, many argue that there may be some advantages to a universal health care system. Democrats generally regard [[universal health care]] to be a priority because of the appeal to poorer voters without any kind of [[health insurance]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Gay Rights===&lt;br /&gt;
White Democratic leaders --but not blacks or Latinos--consistently favor measures such as the establishment of [[same-sex civil union]]s.  They mostly reject [[gay marriage]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Other Policies===&lt;br /&gt;
Democrats frequently support the minimum wage, workplace protections, the right of women to choose to have an [[abortion]], [[gun control]], gay marriage, and the separation of church and state.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Religion==&lt;br /&gt;
In the United States, there is some correlation between religious and political affiliation, though people of all faiths and denominations can be found among the supporters of each of the main parties.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Historically [[Roman Catholic Church|Catholic]] voters have had a tendency to identify with the Democratic Party; in recent decades there has been little difference. However Catholic politicians are mostly Democrats, including Speaker of the House [[Nancy Pelosi]] and Massachusetts Senator [[Ted Kennedy]]. However, several general ideals of the Democratic Party's platform - most notably, the party's overall support for the legality of [[abortion]] - are contrary to the position of the [[Catholic Church]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With regard to Protestants, members of [[Evangelical]] churches in recent years have voted about 70-80% Republican.  However, the large majority of Democratic Party members are Protestants.  One unusual feature of the Democratic Party, however, is that it draws substantial support both from committed African-American Protestants (most of whom are Baptists) and from secular and atheist voters. The strong opposition to [[homosexuality]] found among many Black Protestants contrasts strikingly with the support frequently shown by other Democrats for the [[homosexual agenda]]. One reason for this contrast could be the Democrats' strong support for minority rights.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Democrats also generally believe that religion should be separate from public life, and as such are typically supported by the ACLU.  For example, in 1999 the Congress took up a bill to protect the display of the [[Ten Commandments]].  In the House of Representatives, over 3/4ths of the Democratic party members voted to remove the display.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/06/18/gun.rollcall/ten.commandments.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;.  The measure did not pass the Legislature, and as a result when Justice [[Roy Moore]] posted a [[Ten Commandments]] display in his courthouse, the ACLU was able to have the display removed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Dem-leaders.jpg|thumb|300px|Clockwise from far left: presidents Carter, Kennedy, Clinton, Wilson, Johnson, Truman, Jackson, Roosevelt]]&lt;br /&gt;
===First Party System===&lt;br /&gt;
Democrats claim the [[Thomas Jefferson]] founded their party in 1793 at the start of the [[First Party System]]. The [[Democratic-Republican Party]] was a political party established during the 1790's under the leadership of Thomas Jefferson and [[James Madison]]. It was generally called the Republican Party, but it had no relation to today's Republican Party, founded in 1854. By about 1816, the Federalist Party had broken up as a national organization. With its decline, the Democratic-Republican Party split into several groups. [[Andrew Jackson]] emerged as the candidate of one of these groups and was elected President in 1828.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Origins===&lt;br /&gt;
Most historians regard Jackson's 1832 campaign organization as the beginning of today's Democratic Party. The Democratic Party itself traces its origin to Jefferson's Democratic-Republican Party.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[World Book]]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; A few Democratic-Republicans, such as [[John Quincy Adams]] and [[Henry Clay]], created the [[National Republican Party]]. Adams supporters called themselves National Republicans, antecedents of the Whig and later the Republican parties.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;William DeGregorio, ''The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents'', Gramercy 1997&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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The modern Democratic party was formed during 1828-34, under the national leadership of Jackson and Van Buren, with organizations in all the states comprised of local political leaders. This became the era of [[Jacksonian Democracy]].  The Jacksonians resembled the [[Jeffersonian Democracy|Jeffersonians]] especially in terms of anti-elite rhetoric of opposition to &amp;quot;aristocracy&amp;quot; (that is, wealthy old families), distrust of banks (and paper money), and faith in &amp;quot;the people.&amp;quot; By his extensive use of federal [[Spoils system|patronage]], President Jackson removed old office-holders to make way for party loyalists.  With the emergence of the Whig Party, the nation now had a new party system, the [[Second Party System]], which lasted until 1854.&lt;br /&gt;
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The party held its first national convention in 1832 to choose a new running mate for Jackson; it nominated Martin Van Buren for vice president and endorsed the reelection of Jackson. Jackson easily defeated Clay in 1832.  In the political realignment of 1828-32, some of Jackson's supporters from the election of 1828, especially businessmen and bankers, switched to the opposition Whig Party as Jackson crusaded against the [[Second Bank of the United States]].  The name &amp;quot;Democratic Party&amp;quot; became common by the mid-1830s.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jacksonian Democracy: 1832-1854 ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[image:donk1837.jpg|thumb|300px|1837 cartoon shows Democratic Party as donkey ]]&lt;br /&gt;
The new party dominated the [[Second Party System]] (as political scientists call it; historians call it &amp;quot;Jacksonian Democracy&amp;quot;,  1832-54.  After 1832, the Democratic Party drew support from a cross section of the country; every group was represented. However the vast majority of rich merchants, bankers and plantation owners were Whigs, as were most evangelical Protestants.  The party was strongest among traditionalistic farmers, frontiersmen, unskilled workers, Irish Catholics, and local or state political leaders. It was weakest in [[New England]], where industrialization turned most factory workers and white collar workers into Whigs, but was dominant in all other regions.  The key issues it promoted were opposition to elites and aristocrats, popular democracy (in terms of voting rights and access to government patronage jobs) and opposition to the [[Bank of the United States]] (Jackson vetoed its charter renewal in 1832).  The policies were known as [[Jacksonian Democracy]]. [[Image:Jackson1832.jpg|thumb|300px|left]] &lt;br /&gt;
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Banking and tariffs were the central domestic policy issues from 1828 to 1852.  The Democrats favored the [[Mexican-American War]]; Whigs opposed it. Democrats attracted Catholic Irish and German immigrants and denounced anti-immigrant nativism. Both the Democrats and Whigs were divided on the issue of slavery.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the 1830s the [[Loco-Focos]] in New York City were radically democratic, anti-monopoly, and proponents of [[laissez-faire]].  Their chief spokesman was writer [[William Leggett]]. At this time labor unions were few; some were loosely affiliated with the party.&lt;br /&gt;
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The economy went sour in the late 1830s with Van Buren getting the blame; he lost reelection as president in 1840 to the Whig [[William Henry Harrison]]. The Democrats gained the White House back in 1844 with [[James K. Polk]]. He had a successful term, then retired. The Democratic National Committee was created in 1848 at the convention that nominated General [[Lewis Cass]], who lost to General [[Zachary Taylor]] of the Whigs. In state after state the Democrats gained small but permanent advantages over the Whigs, until by 1852 the Whig Party was fatally weakened by divisions regarding the issue of slavery and they soon vanished. &lt;br /&gt;
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The Democratic party dominated the North from the 1840s to 1854. Northern Democrats opposed banks, criticized corporate practices, and preached the ideals of a free society. They called for rapid territorial expansion of the United States, saying that in territorial expansion lay a means for thwarting the pretensions of the [[Slave Power]]. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Franklin Pierce]] of New Hampshire was elected president in 1852, followed by [[James Buchanan]] of Pennsylvania in 1856. They proved poor presidents who lost control of the slavery issue, and the party, as the nation broke apart and fought the [[American Civil War]].&lt;br /&gt;
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==Third Party System: Civil War, Gilded Age: 1854-1896==&lt;br /&gt;
During the [[Third Party System]] (1854-1896) the Democrats became the minority in the face of the newly formed Republican Party, which controlled nearly all northern states by 1860, bringing a solid majority in the Electoral College.  A powerful Republican issue was the allegation that northern Democrats, including &amp;quot;Doughfaces&amp;quot; like Pierce and Buchanan, and advocates of popular sovereignty like [[Stephen A. Douglas]] and [[Lewis Cass]], were accomplices to the [[Slave Power]]. The Republicans meant by Slave Power the conspiracy of slaveholders to seize control of the federal government and block the progress of liberty.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:DEM1860.JPG|200px|thumb|left|To vote for Douglas in Virginia, a man had to deposit the ticket in the official ballot box.]]&lt;br /&gt;
In 1860 the Democrats were unable to stop the election of Republican [[Abraham Lincoln]], even as they feared his election would lead to civil war.  The party split in two.  The northern wing nominated Douglas, and the southern wing nominated Vice President [[John C. Breckinridge]]. Douglas campaigned across the country and came in second in the popular vote, but carried only Missouri. Breckinridge carried 11 slave states. &lt;br /&gt;
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The Republican Party was beginning a 50-year era of dominance (1858-1910). During the war, Northern Democrats divided into two factions, [[War Democrats]], who supported the military policies of President Lincoln, and [[Copperheads]], who strongly opposed them. Historian Kenneth Stampp has captured the Copperhead spirit in his depiction of Democratic Congressman [[Daniel W. Voorhees]] of Indiana: &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;There was an earthy quality in Voorhees, &amp;quot;the tall sycamore of the Wabash.&amp;quot; On the stump his hot temper, passionate partisanship, and stirring eloquence made an irresistible appeal to the western Democracy. His bitter cries against protective tariffs and national banks, his intense race prejudice, his suspicion of the eastern Yankee, his devotion to personal liberty, his defense of the Constitution and state rights faithfully reflected the views of his constituents. Like other Jacksonian agrarians he resented the political and economic revolution then in progress. Voorhees idealized a way of life which he thought was being destroyed by the current rulers of his country. His bold protests against these dangerous trends made him the idol of the Democracy of the Wabash Valley.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Stampp, 211.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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The Democrats lost consecutive presidential elections from 1860 through 1880 (but 1876 was in dispute); 1884 was their next victory. The Democrats were weakened by their record of opposition to the Civil War but nevertheless benefited from white Southerners' resentment of Reconstruction and consequent hostility to the Republican Party. The [[Redeemers]] gave the Democrats control of every Southern state; the disenfranchisement of black voters in most of the South took place 1890-1900. From 1880 to 1960 the &amp;quot;[[Solid South]]&amp;quot; voted Democratic in all presidential elections (except 1928). After 1900 the key election in southern states was the Democratic primary; victory in the that primary was &amp;quot;tantamount to election&amp;quot; because the GOP was so weak.  &lt;br /&gt;
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Though Republicans continued to control the White House until 1912 (except 1884 and 1892), the Democrats remained competitive in the states, especially in the mid-Atlantic and lower Midwest, and controlled the House of Representatives for most of that period. In the election of 1884, [[Grover Cleveland]], the conservative Democratic Governor of New York, won the presidency, a feat he repeated in 1892, having lost in the election of 1888.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:1893cleveland-typewriter.jpg|thumb|350px|Typewriters were new in 1893 and this Gillam cartoon from ''Puck'' shows that Cleveland can't get the Democratic &amp;quot;machine&amp;quot; to work as the keys (key politicians) won't respond to his efforts.]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Cleveland was the leader of the [[Bourbon Democrats]], the conservative wing of the party.  They represented business interests, supported banking and railroad goals, promoted capitalism, opposed imperialism and U.S. verseas expansion, opposed the annexation of [[Hawaii]], fought for the [[gold standard]], and opposed [[Bimetallism]].  They strongly supported reform movements such as [[Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act|Civil Service Reform]] and opposed corruption of city bosses, leading the fight against the [[Tweed Ring]].  The leading Bourbons included [[Samuel J. Tilden]], [[David Bennett Hill]] and [[William C. Whitney]] of New York, [[Arthur Pue Gorman]] of Maryland, [[Thomas F. Bayard]] of Delaware, [[William L. Wilson]] of West Virginia, [[John Griffin Carlisle]] of Kentucky, [[William F. Vilas]] of Wisconsin, [[J. Sterling Morton]] of Nebraska, [[John M. Palmer]] of Illinois, [[Horace Boies]] of Iowa, [[L.Q.C. Lamar]] of Mississippi, and railroad builder [[James J. Hill]] of Minnesota. A prominent intellectual was [[Woodrow Wilson]]. The Bourbons were in power when the [[Panic of 1893]] hit; it was a deep depression and they took the blame.  A fierce struggle inside the party ensued, with catastrophic losses for both the Bourbon and agrarian factions in 1894, leading to the showdown in 1896.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Dead-dem1880.jpg|thumb|550px|In 1880 when General Hancock (right) became the presidential nominee of the Democrats, Republican cartoonists showed the Democratic party history as a horror chamber featuring atrocities in the Civil War era; the donkey&amp;quot; shows the party as a coalition of the rear end of the South joned to the rear end of the North]]&lt;br /&gt;
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===Ethnocultural voting: pietistic Republicans versus liturgical Democrats===&lt;br /&gt;
Religious lines were sharply drawn.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Kleppner (1979).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Methodists, Congregationalists, Presbyterians, Scandinavian Lutherans and other pietists and evangelicals in the North were tightly linked to the Republican Party. In sharp contrast, liturgical groups, especially the Catholics, Episcopalians, and German Lutherans, looked to the Democratic Party for protection from pietistic moralism, especially prohibition.  Both parties cut across the class structure, with the Democrats more bottom-heavy.&lt;br /&gt;
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Cultural issues, especially prohibition and foreign language schools became important because of the sharp religious divisions in the electorate. In the North, about 50% of the voters were pietistic or evangelical Protestants who believed the government should be used to reduce social sins, such as drinking. Liturgical churches (Roman Catholics, German Lutherans, Episcopalians) comprised over a quarter of the vote and wanted the government to stay out of the morality business. Prohibition debates and referenda heated up politics in most states over a period of decade, as national prohibition was finally passed in 1918 (and repealed in 1933), serving as a major issue in the North between the wet Democracy and the dry GOP.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;In the South the Democrats were mostly on the dry side. Kleppner (1979).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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==The Bryan Movement==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Mark Hanna 1896 election.jpg|thumb|290px|right|Democratic attack ad in 1896 against GOP National Chairman [[Mark Hanna]]; cartoon by Davenport depicts Hanna as a slave driver; from Hearst's ''New York Journal'']] &lt;br /&gt;
[[Grover Cleveland]] led the conservative, pro-business [[Bourbon Democrat]]s but as the [[Panic of 1893|depression of 1893]] deepened his enemies multiplied. The Panic of 1893 started in February 1893, a full month before Cleveland became president. Convinced that the [[Sherman Silver Purchase Act]], passed under the administration of [[Benjamin Harrison]], was largely responsible for the alarming drain on federal gold, President Cleveland called Congress into special session to urge its repeal. Congress consented, but only after bitter debate that divided the Democratic party into two hostile camps-the eastern &amp;quot;goldbugs&amp;quot; and the silver wing of the West and South that was to propel young [[William Jennings Bryan]] to the fore in 1896.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;William DeGregorio, ''The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents'', Gramercy 1997&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; At the 1896 convention the silverite-agrarian faction repudiated the president, and nominated the crusading orator [[William Jennings Bryan]] on a platform of inflation through &amp;quot;free&amp;quot; silver. The idea was that minting huge numbers of silver dollars would flood the economy with cash and end the depression.  Eastern Democrats, unable to accept the party's free-silver platform and unwilling to support McKinley for his tariff views, nominated their own candidate, John M. Palmer of Illinois and called themselves the National, or Gold, Democrats.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;William DeGregorio, ''The Complete Book of U.S. Presidents'', Gramercy 1997&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The [[Gold Democrats]] attracted politicians and intellectuals (including [[Woodrow Wilson]] and [[Frederick Jackson Turner]]) who refused to vote Republican. &lt;br /&gt;
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Bryan, an overnight sensation because of his phenomenal &amp;quot;Cross of Gold&amp;quot; speech, crusaded against the gold standard.  Crisscrossing the Midwest and East by special train, he gave over 500 speeches to audiences in the millions.  In St. Louis he gave 36 speeches to workingmen's audiences all over the city, all in one day.  Most Democratic newspapers were hostile (except [[William Randolph Hearst]]'s ''New York Journal'') but Bryan seized control of the media by making the news every day, as he hurled thunderbolts against Eastern monied interests. The rural folk in South and Midwest were ecstatic, showing an enthusiasm never before seen.  Ethnic Democrats, especially Germans, however, were alarmed and frightened by Bryan. The middle classes, businessmen, newspaper editors, factory workers, railroad workers, and prosperous farmers generally rejected Bryan's crusade. Bryan was overwhelmed by [[William McKinley]] in the most exciting race in national history.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; Refuting Bryan's charges, historians have discovered there was little coercion of workers.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; McKinley promised a return to prosperity based on the gold standard, support for industry, railroads and banks, and pluralism that would enable every group to move ahead. Bryan did however, win the hearts and minds of a majority of Democrats. The election of 1896 was a political realignment. The victory of the Republican Party marked the start of the &amp;quot;Progressive Era,&amp;quot; from 1896 to 1932, in which the GOP usually was dominant.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Fourth Party System: Bryan, Wilson, Progressivism: 1896-1932 ==&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Fourth Party System]] began with the 1896 election, a realignment during which the GOP controlled the presidency for 28 of 36 years. The GOP dominated most of the Northeast and Midwest, and half the West.  Bryan, with a base in the South and Plains states, was strong enough to get the nomination in 1900 (losing to McKinley) and 1908 (losing to Taft).  [[Theodore Roosevelt]] dominated the first decade of the century—and to the annoyance of Democrats &amp;quot;stole&amp;quot; the trust issue by crusading against trusts. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Steal~trust.JPG|thumb|250px|[[Theodore Roosevelt]] steals the anti-trust issue from the Democrats, 1904]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Anti-Bryan conservatives controlled the convention in 1904, but they faced a [[Theodore Roosevelt]] landslide.  Bryan dropped his free silver and anti-imperialism rhetoric and supported mainstream progressive issues, such as the income tax, anti-trust, and direct election of Senators. He backed [[Woodrow Wilson]] in 1912, was rewarded with the State Department, then resigned in protest against Wilson's non-pacifistic policies in 1916. Northern Democrats were progressive on most issues, but generally opposed prohibition, were lukewarm regarding woman's suffrage, and were reluctant to undercut the &amp;quot;boss system&amp;quot; in the big cities. &lt;br /&gt;
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Taking advantage of a deep split in the GOP, the Democrats took control of the House in 1910, and elected the intellectual reformer [[Woodrow Wilson]] in 1912 and 1916.  Wilson successfully led Congress to a series of Progressive laws, including a reduced tariff, stronger antitrust laws, the [[Federal Reserve System]], hours-and-pay benefits for railroad workers, and outlawing of child labor (which was reversed by the Supreme Court). Furthermore, constitutional amendments for prohibition and woman suffrage were passed in his second term.  In effect, Wilson laid to rest the issues of tariffs, money and antitrust that had dominated politics for 40 years.  Wilson led the U.S. to victory in the World War, and turned his attention to foreign affairs. He wrote parts of the [[Versailles Treaty]], especially the new [[League of Nations]]. But in 1919 Wilson's political skills faltered, and suddenly everything turned sour.  The Senate rejected Versailles and the League, a nationwide wave of strikes and violence caused unrest, and Wilson's health collapsed.  The GOP came roaring back in a landslide in 1920, as [[Warren G. Harding]] defeated a Democratic ticket memorable for having [[Franklin D. Roosevelt]] as the vice presidential nominee. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:D-Edge-Congress.JPG|thumb|300px|Before 1932 Republicans usually controlled Congress; after 1932 the Democrats usually were in control]]&lt;br /&gt;
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At the 1924 Democratic National Convention, the big fight was over a resolution denouncing by name the [[Ku Klux Klan]]; it was pushed by New York governor [[Al Smith]] and Alabama Senator [[Oscar W. Underwood]] in order to embarrass the front-runner, [[William McAdoo]] of California. After furious debate, the resolution failed by just a single vote. The KKK faded away soon after, but the deep split in the party over cultural issues, especially Prohibition, facilitated Republican landslides in 1920, 1924 and 1928.  However [[Al Smith]] did build a strong Catholic base in the big cities in 1928, and [[Franklin D. Roosevelt]]'s election as Governor of New York that year brought a new leader to center stage.&lt;br /&gt;
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== Fifth Party System: The New Deal ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:509px-FDR in 1933.jpg|thumb|left|180px|President [[Franklin Delano Roosevelt]] (1933-1945)]]&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Wall Street Crash 1929|stock market crash of 1929]] and the ensuing [[Great Depression]] set the stage for a more progressive government and [[Franklin D. Roosevelt]] won a [[landslide victory]] in the [[U.S. presidential election, 1932|election of 1932]], campaigning on a platform of &amp;quot;Relief, Recovery, and Reform.&amp;quot; This came to be termed &amp;quot;[[New Deal|The New Deal]]&amp;quot; after a phrase in his acceptance speech. The Democrats also swept to large majorities in both houses of Congress, and among state Governors. Roosevelt altered the nature of the Party, away from laissez-faire capitalism, and towards an ideology of economic regulation and insurance against hardship.  Conservative Democrats were outraged; led by [[Al Smith]] they formed the [[American Liberty League]] in 1934 and counterattacked. They failed and either retired from politics or joined the GOP.  A few of them, such as [[Dean Acheson]] found their way back to the Democratic Party.&lt;br /&gt;
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After making gains in Congress in 1934 Roosevelt moved left and embarked on an ambitious legislative program called &amp;quot;The Second New Deal.&amp;quot;  It was characterized by building up labor unions, nationalizing welfare by the [[WPA]] (which 2 million employed unemployed men), setting up [[Social Security]] and raising taxes on business profits.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; In general the New Deal, 1933-40, did not raise taxes, except for the Social Security tax that went into effect in 1937.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Roosevelt's [[New Deal]] programs focused on job creation through public works projects as well as Social Security. In the name of &amp;quot;reform&amp;quot; it imposed strong regulations on the banking and financial system, transportation, communications, stock markets and labor-management relations.  &lt;br /&gt;
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Roosevelt successfully built up the &amp;quot;[[New Deal Coalition]]&amp;quot;, a powerful coalition of voters and interest groups that supported liberalism. Key components included big city machines and labor unions. Key voter groups included traditional Democrats, white Southerners, Catholics, Jews, and liberals, as well as many blacks. This united voter base allowed Democrats to be elected to Congress and the presidency for much of the next 30 years.&lt;br /&gt;
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After a sweeping landslide reelection in 1936--losing only Maine and Vermont--Roosevelt stunned the nation, and his party, by calling for legislation to enlarge the Supreme Court by five new members. A firestorm of opposition erupted, led by his own vice president [[John Nance Garner]]. Roosevelt was defeated by an alliance of Republicans and conservative Democrats, who formed a [[Conservative coalition]] that managed to block nearly all liberal legislation. (Only a minimum wage law got through.) Angry with the conservative wing of his own party, Roosevelt tried to destroy it. In 1938, he actively campaigned against five incumbent conservative Democratic senators; all five senators won re-election. &lt;br /&gt;
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Under FDR, the Democratic Party became identified closely with modern liberalism, which included the promotion of social welfare, unions and regulation of the economy. Civil rights were not on the party agenda at this time.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Truman to Kennedy: 1945-1963==&lt;br /&gt;
Harry Truman took over unexpectedly in 1945, and the rifts inside the party that Roosevelt had papered over began to emerge. Former Vice President [[Henry A. Wallace]] denounced Truman as a war-monger for his anti-Soviet programs, the [[Truman Doctrine]], [[Marshall Plan]], and [[NATO]].   By cooperating with internationalist Republicans, Truman succeeded in defeating isolationists on the right and pro-Soviets on the left to establish a [[Cold War]] program that lasted until the fall of Communism in 1991. Wallace supporters and fellow travelers of the far left were pushed out of the party and the CIO in 1946-48 by young anti-Communists like [[Hubert Humphrey]], [[Walter Reuther]], and [[Arthur Schlesinger, Jr.]]. [[Hollywood]] emerged in the 1940s as an importance new base in the party, led by movie-star politicians such as [[Ronald Reagan]], who at this point in time strongly supported Roosevelt and Truman.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; Reagan became a conservative around 1960, saying the Democratic party had left him.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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On the right the Republicans blasted Truman’s domestic policies. &amp;quot;Had Enough?&amp;quot; was the winning slogan as Republicans recaptured Congress in 1946.  Many party leaders were ready to dump Truman, but they lacked an alternative. Truman counterattacked, pushing [[J. Strom Thurmond]] and his [[Dixiecrats]] out, and taking advantage of the splits inside the GOP.  He was reelected in a stunning surprise.  However all of Truman’s Fair Deal proposals, such as universal health care were defeated by the [[Conservative Coalition]] in Congress.  His seizure of the steel industry was reversed by the Supreme Court.  &lt;br /&gt;
In foreign policy, Europe was safe but troubles mounted in Asia.  China fell to the Communists in 1949. Truman entered the [[Korean War]] without formal Congressional approval—the last time a president would ever do so. When the war turned to a stalemate in 1951 he fired General [[Douglas MacArthur]], a hero to conservatives. Republicans blasted Truman's failure to stop Communist gains in Asia. A series of petty scandals among friends and buddies of Truman further tarnished his image, allowing [[Dwight Eisenhower]] and the Republicans in 1952 to crusade against &amp;quot;Korea, Communism and Corruption.&amp;quot; Truman dropped out of the presidential race early in 1952, leaving no obvious successor. The convention nominated [[Adlai Stevenson]] in 1952 and 1956, only to see him overwhelmed by two Eisenhower landslides.  &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:1952-32.jpg|thumb|480px|right|Stevenson and labor unions warn against a return of the Republican policies of Herbert Hoover in 1952 campaign poster]]&lt;br /&gt;
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In Congress the powerful duo of House Speaker [[Sam Rayburn]] and Senate Majority leader [[Lyndon B. Johnson]] held the party together, often by compromising with Eisenhower. In 1958 the party made dramatic gains in the midterms and seemed to have a permanent lock on Congress. Indeed, Democrats had majorities in the House every election from 1930 to 1992 (except 1946 and 1952). Most southern Congressmen were conservative Democrats, however, and they usually worked with conservative Republicans. The result was a [[Conservative Coalition]] that blocked practically all liberal domestic legislation from 1937 to the 1970s, except for a brief spell 1964-65, when Johnson neutralized its power.&lt;br /&gt;
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The nomination of [[John F. Kennedy]] in 1960 energized the Catholic population, which jammed motorcades and turned out in heavy numbers (over 80% voted for Kennedy), while also causing a backlash among white Protestants (over 70% of whom voted for Republican candidate [[Richard Nixon]].  Reaching beyond the traditional Irish, German, Italian and Polish Catholic ethnics, Viva Kennedy set out to mobilize the previously passive Latino vote, and it perhaps provided the margin of victory for Kennedy in Texas and New Mexico.  Kennedy's victory reinvigorated the party. His youth, vigor and intelligence caught the popular imagination. In foreign policy he was strongly anti-Communist, and promptly launched an invasion of casto's Cuba; it failed badly. A few new programs like the Peace Corps harnessed idealism.  In terms of legislation, Kennedy was stalemated by the [[Conservative Coalition]], and anyway his proposals were all cautious and incremental.  In three years he was unable to pass any significant new legislation. &lt;br /&gt;
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Kennedy's election did mark the coming of age of the Catholic component of the New Deal Coalition.  After 1964 middle class Catholics started voting Republicans in the same proportion as their Protestant neighbors.  Except for the Chicago of [[Richard J. Daley]], the last of the Democratic machines faded away.  His involvement in Vietnam proved momentous, for his successor Lyndon Johnson decided to stay, and double the investment, and double the bet again and again until over 500,000 American soldiers were fighting in that small country.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Civil Rights, Riots, War and collapse of the New Deal Coalition==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:LBJ-64.jpg|280px|left|thumb|President Lyndon Johnson ran for reelection in the shadow of Kennedy]]&lt;br /&gt;
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The New Deal Coalition began to fracture as union and religious leaders demanded support for [[civil rights]], upsetting the party's traditional base of conservative Southern Democrats. After Harry Truman's platform showed support for civil rights and anti-segregation policies during the 1948 Democratic National Convention, many Southern Democratic delegates decided to split from the Party and formed the &amp;quot;[[Dixiecrats]],&amp;quot; led by [[South Carolina]] governor [[Strom Thurmond]] (who, as a Senator, would later join the Republican Party). Over the next few years, many conservative Democrats in the &amp;quot;[[Solid South]]&amp;quot; drifted away from the party. By 1940 most northern Blacks had shifted to the Democratic Party due to its New Deal relief programs and support for civil rights.&lt;br /&gt;
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The party's dramatic reversal on civil rights issues culminated when Democratic President [[Lyndon B. Johnson]] signed into law the [[Civil Rights Act of 1964]]. The new laws ended segregation and also ended the main argument Democrats had used to block Republican gains in the South (that is, only the Democrats could protect segregation). The South became competitive in presidential politics in the 1970s and 1980s, giving strong support to Republican Ronald Reagan and rejecting the liberal northern candidates. The Democrats responded by nominating Southerners (Carter in 1976 and 1980, Clinton in 1992 and 1996, Gore in 2000). Few southern states were won by Democratic presidential candidates from the North (Humphrey in 1968, McGovern in 1972, Mondale in 1984, Dukakis in 1988, Kerry in 2004).  At the state and local level the Republicans made slow, steady gains, especially among upscale middle class whites and migrants from the North. By the 1990s the GOP was competitive at the state and local level throughout the South. The Democrats made gains in the west, converting California to a Democratic stronghold and gaining in fast-growing Arizona and Nevada. The Northeast became more and more a Democratic enclave, especially after 2006 when numerous Republican moderates were defeated for reelection.  the Midwest remained a battleground.  The Democrats made strong gains in Illinois, but slipped a little in Minnesota.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Demfight1968.jpg|thumb|290px|By 1968 Democrats were bitterly fighting over Vietnam and the failures of the Great Society]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==1968 to 1999==&lt;br /&gt;
The Democratic party split five ways in 1968 and became the minority party in presidential elections for decades; after 1964 they won a majority of the presidential vote only in 2008.&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Jimmy Carter.jpg|thumb|right|180px|Jimmy Carter was elected in 1976 and defeated in 1980.]]&lt;br /&gt;
In 1972, the Democrats nominated Sen. [[George McGovern]] (SD) as the presidential candidate on a platform which advocated, among other things, U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam and a guaranteed minimum income for all Americans. McGovern's forces at the national convention ousted Mayor [[Richard J. Daley]] and the entire Chicago delegation, replacing them with insurgents led by [[Jesse Jackson]]. After it became know that McGovern's running mate, [[Thomas Eagleton]], had received electric shock therapy, McGovern said he supported Eagleton &amp;quot;1000%&amp;quot; but he was soon forced to drop him and find a new running mate.  With his campaign stalled for several weeks McGovern finally selected [[Sargent Shriver]], a Kennedy-in-law who was close to Mayor Daley.  On July 14, 1972, McGovern appointed his campaign manager, Jean Westwood as the first woman chair of the Democratic National Committee.  McGovern was defeated in a landslide by incumbent [[Richard Nixon]], winning only Massachusetts and Washington, D.C.  The [[Watergate affair]] of 1973-74 made corruption a central issue, especially after [[Gerald Ford]] pardoned Nixon in September 1974. The Democrats made major gains in the 1974 off-year elections.&lt;br /&gt;
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In 1976, mistrust of the administration, complicated by a combination of economic recession and inflation, sometimes called ''[[stagflation]]'', led to Ford's narrow defeat in 1976 by [[Jimmy Carter]], a former governor of Georgia. &lt;br /&gt;
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Carter represented the total outsider, who promised honesty in government. He had served as a naval officer, a farmer, a state senator, and a one-term governor. His only experience with federal politics was when he chaired the Democratic National Committee's congressional and gubernatorial elections in 1974. Some of Carter's major accomplishments consisted of the creation of a national energy policy and the consolidation of governmental agencies, resulting in two new cabinet departments, the [[United States Department of Energy]] and the [[United States Department of Education]]. Carter also successfully deregulated the trucking, airline, rail, finance, communications, and oil industries, bolstered the [[social security]] system, and appointed record numbers of women and minorities to significant government and judicial posts. He also enacted strong legislation on environmental protection, through the expansion of the [[National Park Service]] in [[Alaska]], creating 103 million new acres of land. In foreign affairs, Carter's accomplishments consisted of the [[Camp David Accords]], the [[Panama Canal Treaties]], the creation of full diplomatic relations with the [[People's Republic of China]], and the negotiation of the [[SALT II]] Treaty. In addition, he championed human rights throughout the world and used human rights as the center of his administration's foreign policy.&lt;br /&gt;
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Even with all of these successes, Carter failed to implement a national health plan or to reform the tax system, as he had promised in his campaign. Inflation was also on the rise. Abroad, the Iranians held 52 Americans hostage for 444 days, and Carter's diplomatic and military rescue attempts failed. The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan later that year weakened the perception Americans had of Carter. Even though he had already been defeated for re-election, Carter fortunately was able to negotiate the release of every American hostage. They were lifted out of Iran minutes after Reagan was inaugurated and Carter served as Reagan's emissary to greet them when they arrived in Germany. In 1980, Carter defeated liberal champion [[Edward Kennedy]] to gain renomination, but lost to conservative [[Ronald Reagan]] by a landslide. The Democrats lost 12 Senate seats, and for the first time since 1954, the Republicans controlled the Senate.  The House, however, remained in Democratic hands.&lt;br /&gt;
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===1980s: Battling Reaganism===&lt;br /&gt;
Instrumental in the election of Republican [[Ronald Reagan]] in 1980, were Democrats who supported many conservative policies. Among legislators, one of the most prominent of these consevative Democrats was Georgia congressman and second chairman of the [[John Birch Society]], [[Larry McDonald]], who was a passenger on [[Korean Airlines Flight 007]] shot down by the Soviets near [[Moneron Island]] on Sept. 1, 1983. The &amp;quot;Reagan Democrats&amp;quot;  were Democrats before the Reagan years, and afterward, but they voted for [[Ronald Reagan]] in 1980 and 1984 (and for [[George H. W. Bush]] in 1988), producing their landslide victories. They were mostly white ethnics in the Northeast who were attracted to Reagan's social conservatism on issues such as abortion, and to his strong foreign policy. They did not continue to vote Republican in 1992 or 1996, so the term fell into disuse except as a reference to the 1980s. The term is not used to describe southern whites who became permanent Republicans in presidential elections.   Stanley Greenberg, a Democratic pollster analyzed white ethnic voters, largely unionized  auto workers, in suburban Macomb County, Michigan, just north of Detroit. The county voted 63 percent for Kennedy in 1960 and 66 percent for Reagan in 1984.  He concluded that Reagan Democrats no longer saw Democrats as champions of their  middle class aspirations, but instead saw it as being a party working primarily for the benefit of others, especially African Americans and the very poor.  Bill Clinton targeted the Reagan Democrats with considerable success in 1992 and 1996. &lt;br /&gt;
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[[Image:Liberal1984.jpg|thumb|350px]] The failure to hold the Reagan Democrats and the white South led to the final collapse of the [[New Deal coalition]]. Reagan carried 49 states against former Vice President and Minnesota Senator [[Walter Mondale]], a New Deal stalwart, in 1984.  Massachusetts Governor [[Michael Dukakis]], running not as a New Dealer but as an efficiency expert in public administration, lost by a landslide in 1988 to Vice President [[George H. W. Bush]].&lt;br /&gt;
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In response to these landslide defeats, the [[Democratic Leadership Council]] was created. It worked to move the Party rightwards to the ideological center in order to recover some of the fundraising that had been lost to the Republicans due to corporate donors supporting Reagan. With the Party retaining left-of-center supporters as well as supporters holding moderate or conservative views on some issues, the Democrats became generally a &amp;quot;big tent&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;catch all party&amp;quot; with widespread appeal to most opponents of the Republicans.&lt;br /&gt;
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===The South Becomes Republican===&lt;br /&gt;
In the century after the end of [[Reconstruction]] in 1877, the white South identified with Democratic Party. The Democrats' lock on power was so strong, the region was called the [[Solid South]]. The Republicans only controlled parts of the Appalachian mountains, but they sometimes did compete for statewide office in the border states. Before 1964, the southern Democrats saw their party as the defender of the southern way of life, which included a respect for states' rights and an appreciation for traditional southern values. They repeatedly warned against the aggressive designs of Northern liberals and Republicans, as well as civil rights activists whom they denounced as &amp;quot;outside agitators.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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However, between 1964 and 2004, the Democratic Party's lock on the South was broken. The long-term cause had to do with the South becoming more like the rest of the nation. It could not long stand apart in terms of racial segregation.  Modernization had brought factories, national businesses, and larger, more cosmopolitan cities to the South, as well as millions of migrants from the North and more opportunities for higher education. Meanwhile, the cotton and tobacco economy of the traditional rural South faded away, as former farmers commuted to factory jobs. &lt;br /&gt;
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Integration and the civil rights movement caused enormous controversy in the white South, with many attacking it as a violation of states' rights.  When segregation was outlawed by court order and by the Civil Rights acts of 1964 and 1965, a die-hard element resisted integration, led by Democratic governors  [[Orval Faubus]] of Arkansas, [[Lester Maddox]] of Georgia, and, especially [[George Wallace]] of Alabama. These populist governors appealed to a less-educated, blue-collar electorate that on economic grounds favored the Democratic Party, but opposed desegregation. After 1965 most Southerners accepted integration (with the exception of public schools). Believing themselves betrayed by the Democratic Party, traditional white southerners joined the new middle-class and the Northern transplants in moving toward the Republican Party. Meanwhile, newly enfranchised Black voters began supporting Democratic candidates at the 80-90-percent levels, producing Democratic leaders such as [[Julian Bond]] and [[John Lewis]] of Georgia, and [[Barbara Jordan]] of Texas. Just as Martin Luther King had promised, integration had brought about a new day in Southern politics, freeing both blacks and whites from old hatreds and fears. &lt;br /&gt;
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Using issues of cultural conservatism, especially opposition to abortion and homosexuality and support for school prayer, Republicans attracted strong majorities among evangelical Christians. They were nationwide, but strongest in the South; before to the 1980s they were largely apolitical.  Exit polls in 2004  showed that Bush led Kerry by 70-30% among Southern whites, who comprised 71% of the voters.  Kerry had a 90-9 lead among the 18% of Southern voters who were black. One third of the Southern voters said they were white evangelicals; they voted for Bush by 80-20.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; See the exit polls at [http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.3.html |date=[[2004-11-02]]|accessdate=2006-11-18]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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===1990s===&lt;br /&gt;
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In the 1990s the Democratic Party revived itself, in part by moving to the right on economic and social policy. President [[Bill Clinton]], who defeated the incumbent [[George H. W. Bush]] in 1992, implemented a balanced federal budget and [[welfare reform]] (cutting benefits and requiring many recipients to take jobs), traditionally conservative causes. Labor unions, which had been steadily losing membership since the 1960s, found they had also lost political clout inside the Democratic Party: Clinton enacted the [[NAFTA]] free trade agreement with Canada and Mexico over the strong objection of these labor unions, much to the disappointment of those on the left of the party. The [[Republican Party (United States)|Republican Party]] took control of both the House of Representatives and the United States Senate after the 1994 election. Clinton was impeached in 1998 and subsequently acquitted in 1999.&lt;br /&gt;
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When the [[DLC]] attempted to move the Democratic agenda in favor of more centrist positions, prominent Democrats from both the centrist and conservative factions assumed leadership of the party and its direction. Some liberals and progressives felt alienated by the Democratic Party, which they felt had become unconcerned with the interests of the common people and left-wing issues in general. Some Democrats challenged the validity of such critiques, citing the Democratic role in pushing for progressive reforms.&lt;br /&gt;
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==21st century==&lt;br /&gt;
===Election of 2000===&lt;br /&gt;
During the presidential election of 2000, the Democrats chose Vice President [[Al Gore]] to be the party's candidate for the presidency. Gore and [[George W. Bush]], the Republican candidate and son of former President George H.W. Bush, disagreed on a number of issues, including abortion, gun control, environmentalism, gay rights, tax cuts, foreign policy, public education, global warming, judicial appointments, and affirmative action. Nevertheless, Gore's affiliation with Clinton and the DLC caused critics—Green Party presidential candidate [[Ralph Nader]] in particular—to assert that Bush and Gore were too similar, especially on free trade, reductions in social welfare, and the death penalty. &amp;quot;We want to punish the Democrats, we want to hurt them, wound them,&amp;quot; Nader's closest advisor said.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Harry G. Levinem &amp;quot;Ralph Nader, Suicide Bomber.&amp;quot; ''The Village Voice'' May 3, 2004 at [http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0418,levine,53179,1.html] &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gore won a popular plurality of over 500,000 votes over Bush, but lost in the electoral vote by four votes. In a close election anything can be decisive, but many angry Democrats blamed Nader's third-party spoiler role for Gore's defeat. Controversy plagued the election, and Gore largely dropped from politics for years; by 2005 however he was making speeches critical of Bush's foreign and environmental policies.&lt;br /&gt;
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Despite Gore's close defeat, the Democrats gained five seats in the Senate (including the election of [[Hillary Clinton]] in New York), to turn a 55-45 Republican edge into a 50-50 split (with a Republican Vice President breaking a tie). However, when Republican Senator [[Jim Jeffords]] of Vermont decided in 2001 to become an independent and vote with the Democratic Caucus, the majority status shifted along with the seat, including control of the floor (by the Majority Leader) and control of all committee chairmanships. However, the Republicans regained their Senate majority with gains in 2002 and 2004, leaving the Democrats with only 44 seats, the fewest since the 1920s.&lt;br /&gt;
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===2001-2003===&lt;br /&gt;
In the aftermath of the [[9-11 Attacks]], the nation's focus was changed to issues of national security. All but one Democrat&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; Representative [[Barbara Lee]] of Texas&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; joined the Republicans to authorize President Bush to invade invasion of Afghanistan and overthrow the Taliban. House leader [[Richard Gephardt]] and Senate leader [[Thomas Daschle]] pushed Democrats to vote for the [[USA PATRIOT Act]] and the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The Democrats were split over entering Iraq in 2003 and increasingly expressed concerns about both the justification and progress of the [[War on Terrorism]], as well as the domestic effects, including supposed threats to civil rights and civil liberties from the PATRIOT Act. Senator [[Russ Feingold]] was the only Senator to vote against the act; it received more resistance when it came up for renewal, but was renewed in 2006.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the wake of the financial fraud scandal of the [[Enron Corporation]] and other corporations, Congressional Democrats pushed for a legal overhaul of business accounting with the intention of preventing further accounting fraud. This led to the bipartisan [[Sarbanes-Oxley Act]] in 2002. Economic issues did not work well in 2002, as the Democrats lost a few seats in the U.S. House of Representatives. They lost three seats in the Senate. While Democrats gained governorships in New Mexico (where [[Bill Richardson]] was elected), Arizona ([[Janet Napolitano]]) and Wyoming ([[Dave Freudenthal]]), other Democrats lost governorships in South Carolina ([[Jim Hodges]]), Alabama ([[Don Siegelman]]) and, for the first time in more than a century, Georgia ([[Roy Barnes]]). The election led to another round of soul searching about the party's narrowing base. The party's miseries mounted in 2003, when a voter recall unseated their unpopular governor of California, [[Gray Davis]], and replaced him which a charismatic liberal Republican [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. By the end of 2003 the four largest states had Republican governors: California, Texas, New York and Florida.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Election of 2004===&lt;br /&gt;
The 2004 campaign began in late 2002, when Gore said he would not run again. [[Howard Dean]], former Governor of Vermont, an opponent of the war and a critic of the Democratic establishment, was the front-runner leading into the Democratic primaries. Dean had immense grassroots support, especially from the left wing of the party. Massachusetts Senator [[John Kerry]], a more centrist figure with heavy support from the [[Democratic Leadership Council]], was nominated because he was seen as more &amp;quot;electable&amp;quot; than Dean. Democrats moved to populist anti-business positions that denounced free trade and the [[NAFTA]] agreement. The party rhetoric attacked the Bush administration rather than propose alternative programs. &lt;br /&gt;
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In the end, Kerry lost both the popular vote (by 3 million out of over 120 million votes cast) and the [[Electoral College]]. Republicans also gained four seats in the Senate and three seats in the House of Representatives, and for the first time since 1952, the Democratic leader of the Senate lost re-election. In the end, there were 3,660 Democratic state legislators across the nation to the Republicans' 3,557. Democrats gained governorships in Louisiana, New Hampshire and Montana. However, they lost the governorship of Missouri and a legislative majority in Georgia, which had long been a Democratic stronghold.&lt;br /&gt;
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There were many reasons for the defeat. After the election most analysts concluded that Kerry was a poor campaigner.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Evan Thomas and Staff of Newsweek,''Election 2004: How Bush Won and What You Can Expect in the Future''(2005)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  A group of Vietnam veterans opposed to Kerry called the &amp;quot;Swift Boat Veterans for Truth&amp;quot; undercut Kerry's use of his military past as a campaign strategy.  Kerry was unable to reconcile his initial support of the [[Iraq War]] with his opposition to the war in 2004, or manage the deep split in the Democratic Party between those who favored and opposed the war. Republicans ran thousands of television commercials to argue that Kerry had flip-flopped on Iraq.  When Kerry's home state of Massachusetts legalized same-sex marriage, the issue split liberal and conservative Democrats and independents (Kerry publicly stated throughout his campaign that he opposed same sex marriage, but favored civil unions).  Republicans exploited the same-sex marriage issue by promoting ballot initiatives in 11 states that brought conservatives to the polls in large numbers; all 11 initiatives passed. Some Democrats argued that flaws in vote-counting systems may also have played a role in Kerry's defeat in Ohio. Other factors include a healthy job market, a rising stock market, strong home sales, and low unemployment.&lt;br /&gt;
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After the 2004 election, prominent Democrats began to rethink the party's direction, and a variety of strategies for moving forward were voiced. Some Democrats proposed moving towards the right; others demanded that the party move more to the left and become a stronger opposition party. . Rethinking the party's position on gun control became a matter of discussion, brought up by [[Howard Dean]], [[Bill Richardson]], [[Brian Schweitzer]] and other Democrats who had won governorships in states where Second Amendment rights were important to many voters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===2005 - 2007===&lt;br /&gt;
These debates were reflected in the 2005 campaign for Chairman of the [[Democratic National Committee]], which [[Howard Dean]] won. He sought to move the Democratic strategy away from the establishment, and bolster support for the party's state organizations, even in Red states.&lt;br /&gt;
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When the 109th Congress convened in 2005, [[Harry Reid]], the new Senate Minority Leader, tried to convince the Democratic Senators to vote more as a bloc on important issues; he forced the Republicans to abandon their push for privatization of Social Security. In 2005, the Democrats retained their governorships in Virginia and New Jersey, electing [[Tim Kaine]] and [[Jon Corzine]], respectively. However, the party lost the mayoral race in New York City, a Democratic stronghold, for the fourth straight time.&lt;br /&gt;
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In 2006, with scandals involving Republican lobbyist [[Jack Abramoff]], as well as GOP House leader [[Tom DeLay]], Ohio GOP governor [[Bob Taft]] and others, the Democrats used the slogan &amp;quot;Culture of corruption.&amp;quot; Negative public opinion on the war in Iraq, along with widespread dissatisfaction among conservatives over government spending, dragged President Bush's job approval ratings down to the lowest levels of his presidency.  To win control the Democrats had to add 15 seats in the House (they added 30), and 6 in the Senate (they added 6). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Democratic Party's electoral success has been attributed to running relatively conservative Democrats in close seats, such as the Senate races in Virginia, Pennsylvania and Montana. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; Dewan Shaila and Anne E. Kornblut, &amp;quot;In Key House Races, Democrats Run to the Right,&amp;quot; ''New York Times,'' 2006-10-30; but compare Rick Perlstein, &amp;quot;Who deserves credit for the Democratic comeback?&amp;quot; ''The New Republic'' 2006-11-08]] at [https://ssl.tnr.com/p/docsub.mhtml?i=w061106&amp;amp;s=perlstein110806] &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;   Exit polling suggested that corruption was a key issue for many voters.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;CNN, &amp;quot;Corruption named as key issue by voters in exit polls,&amp;quot; 2006-11-08 at [http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/07/election.exitpolls/] &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 2006 Democrats gained a majority of governorships and made gains in many state legislatures. No Democratic incumbent was defeated in any major race. &lt;br /&gt;
===2007-2010===&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Obama_approval_index_december_22_2009.jpg‎|thumb|250px]]&lt;br /&gt;
House Democrats chose Rep. [[Nancy Pelosi]] of California for Speaker, the first woman ever, but rejected her choice for Majority Leader. Senate Democrats promoted Harry Reid to Majority Leader.  Neither have been very effective.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The presidential campaign of 2008 featured a remarkable duel between Obama--the first major black candidate, and [[Hillary Clinton]], the first major woman contender. Obama won with his charismatic oratory and his highly efficient fund-raising and strong organization in the caucus states, while Clinton went downscale to pick up big majorities among poor whites and Hispanics. The contest between Obama and GOP nominee [[John McCain]] was very close until September, when the collapse of the financial system soured the voters on the GOP. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Obama Administration]] got off to a fast start in 2009, especially in vigorous efforts to combat the [[Recession of 2008]] with heavy new stimulus spending, massive loans to banks, increased regulation, and deep intervention in the automobile industry.  All those policies were begun by Bush, and had failed to reverse the decline of the economy in late 2008.  Whether they will now succeed remains an open question, with the GOP now voting solidly against them and some conservatives like [[Rush Limbaugh]] hoping that the Democrats will fail badly and that the people will again turn to the Republican party.  The Democratic Party is feeling the sting from the opposition and many Democrats are beginning to question their own leadership.  Liberals are disenchanted with Obama's hawkish position on the [[Afghanistan War]]. The health care reform that consumed most of 2009 remains unsettled, as public opinion has turned against it. Environmentalists now seem resigned to the failure of a [[cap and trade]] program to reduce CO2 emissions.  Most of all the recession drags on.  The stimulus bill was passed quickly in Feb. 2009 over almost unanimous GOP opposition, but despite promises of &amp;quot;shovel ready&amp;quot; projects, most of the money has not been spent a year later and the economy remains in the doldrums.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The elections in Nov. 2009 in New Jersey and Virginia went badly for the Democrats, as the GOP gained both governorships and many local races, not to mention the Democrats' fifth straight loss for the mayoralty of New York City.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
see [[2010 Midterm Elections]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Symbols==&lt;br /&gt;
The most common symbol for the party is the donkey, although the party itself never officially adopted this symbol.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/06/history_of_the.php History of the Democratic Donkey]. &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Some historians suggest the jackass was born 1828 when Jackson was sometimes called a jackass by his opponents as a play on his name. A political cartoon depicting Jackson riding and directing a donkey (representing the Democratic Party) was published in 1837. A political cartoon by [[Thomas Nast]] in an 1870  revived the donkey as a symbol for the Democratic Party. Cartoonists ever since have followed Nast and used the donkey to represent the Democrats, and the elephant to represent the Republicans.&lt;br /&gt;
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In the early 20th century, the traditional symbol of the Democratic Party in many states was the rooster, as opposed to the Republican eagle. &lt;br /&gt;
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There is no official color, but since election night 2000 blue has become the identification color of the Democratic Party for maps, while the red has become the color of the Republicans.  Increasingly blue is used by Democrats for promotions (e.g BuyBlue, BlueFund) and by the party itself, which in 2006 unveiled the &amp;quot;Red to Blue Program&amp;quot; to support Democratic candidates running against Republican incumbents in the 2006 midterm election.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Jefferson-Jackson Day]] annual fundraising celebrations are held by local chapters of the Democratic Party. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The song &amp;quot;[[Happy Days Are Here Again]]&amp;quot; is the unofficial song of the Democratic Party. It was used prominently when Roosevelt was nominated for president at the 1932 Democratic National Convention and remains a sentimental favorite for Democrats today. During the [[Bill Clinton|Clinton]] era, the [[Fleetwood Mac]] song &amp;quot;Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow&amp;quot; became a popular song at Democratic events, reflecting the growing prominence of Baby Boomers in the party.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Democratic Presidents==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Andrew Jackson]] (1829-1837)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Martin Van Buren]] (1837-1841)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[James K. Polk]] (1845-1849)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Franklin Pierce]] (1853-1857)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[James Buchanan]] (1857-1861)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Grover Cleveland]] (1885-1889) (1893-1897)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Woodrow Wilson]] (1913-1921)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Franklin Roosevelt]] (1933-1945)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Harry S Truman]] (1945-1953)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[John F. Kennedy]] (1961-1963)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Lyndon B. Johnson]] (1963-1969)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Jimmy Carter]] (1977-1981)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Bill Clinton]] (1993-2001)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Barack Obama]] (2009 - Present)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Previous Breaking News/Democrats|Articles about '''Democrats''' from previous &amp;quot;Breaking News&amp;quot;]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Gestapo care]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Bibliography==&lt;br /&gt;
===Current===&lt;br /&gt;
*Barone, Michael, and Grant Ujifusa, ''The Almanac of American Politics 2008: The Senators, the Representatives and the Governors: Their Records and Election Results, Their States and Districts'' (2007) covers all the live politicians with amazing detail. New edition every two years since 1975.&lt;br /&gt;
*  Brownstein, Ronald. ''The Second Civil War: How Extreme Partisanship Has Paralyzed Washington and Polarized America''(2007)  &lt;br /&gt;
* Crane, Michael. ''The Political Junkie Handbook: The Definitive Reference Books on Politics'' (2004) covers all the major issues explaining the parties' positions&lt;br /&gt;
*Sabato, Larry J. ''Divided States of America: The Slash and Burn Politics of the 2004 Presidential Election'' (2005).&lt;br /&gt;
*Sabato, Larry J. ed. ''The Sixth Year Itch: The Rise and Fall of the George W. Bush Presidency'' (1907), in-depth essays by scholars on key states in 2006&lt;br /&gt;
* Sabato, Larry J., and Howard R. Ernst  eds. ''Political Parties and Elections'' (2007), 540pp; an encyclopedia with 450 entries by scholars; focus is 1945 to present&lt;br /&gt;
* Sabato, Larry J. and Bruce Larson. ''The Party's Just Begun: Shaping Political Parties for America's Future'' (2001) textbook.&lt;br /&gt;
* Shafer, Byron E. and Anthony J. Badger, eds. ''Contesting Democracy: Substance and Structure in American Political History, 1775-2000'' (2001), long essays by specialists on each time period&lt;br /&gt;
* Shafer, Byron and Richard Johnston. ''The End of Southern Exceptionalism'' (2006), uses statistical election data &amp;amp; polls to argue  GOP growth was primarily a response to economic change&lt;br /&gt;
===Historical===&lt;br /&gt;
* ''American National Biography'' (20 volumes, 1999) covers all politicians no longer alive; online and paper copies at many academic libraries. &lt;br /&gt;
* Jensen, Richard. ''Grass Roots Politics: Parties, Issues, and Voters, 1854-1983'' (1983) [http://www.questia.com/library/book/grass-roots-politics-parties-issues-and-voters-1854-1983-by-christopher-c-gibbs-richard-j-jensen-steven-l-piott.jsp online edition]; survey by conservative scholar, with primary sources&lt;br /&gt;
* Kennedy, David M. ''Freedom from Fear: The American People in Depression and War, 1929-1945'' (2001), synthesis by leading scholar; Pulitzer prize [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&amp;amp;d=52284041 online edition]&lt;br /&gt;
* Kleppner, Paul et al. ''The Evolution of American Electoral Systems'' (1983), essays by scholars (some of them conservatives), 1790s to 1980s.&lt;br /&gt;
* Kleppner, Paul. ''The Third Electoral System 1853-1892: Parties, Voters, and Political Cultures'' (1979), analysis of voting behavior, with emphasis on region, ethnicity, religion and class. [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&amp;amp;d=24451028  online edition]&lt;br /&gt;
* Ling, Peter J. ''The Democratic Party: A Photographic History'' (2003).&lt;br /&gt;
* Patterson, James T. ''Grand Expectations: The United States, 1945-1974'' (1997) synthesis by leading scholar. [http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Expectations-United-1945-1974-History/dp/0195117972/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1211911625&amp;amp;sr=1-2 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Patterson, James T. ''Restless Giant: The United States from Watergate to Bush vs. Gore'' (2005) synthesis by leading scholar. [http://www.amazon.com/Restless-Giant-United-Watergate-History/dp/0195305221/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1211911625&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Ritchie, Donald A. ''Electing FDR: The New Deal Campaign of 1932'' (2007) [http://www.amazon.com/Electing-FDR-Campaign-Presidential-Elections/dp/0700615504/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1195784762&amp;amp;sr=8-2 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Rutland, Robert Allen. ''The Democrats: From Jefferson to Clinton'' (1995). &lt;br /&gt;
* Shafer, Byron E. and Anthony J. Badger, eds. ''Contesting Democracy: Substance and Structure in American Political History, 1775-2000'' (2001), most recent collection of new essays by specialists on each time period:  &lt;br /&gt;
**includes: &amp;quot;State Development in the Early Republic: 1775–1840&amp;quot; by Ronald P. Formisano; &amp;quot;The Nationalization and Racialization of American Politics: 1790–1840&amp;quot; by David Waldstreicher; &amp;quot;'To One or Another of These Parties Every Man Belongs;&amp;quot;: 1820–1865 by Joel H. Silbey; &amp;quot;Change and Continuity in the Party Period: 1835–1885&amp;quot; by Michael F. Holt; &amp;quot;The Transformation of American Politics: 1865–1910&amp;quot; by Peter H. Argersinger; &amp;quot;Democracy, Republicanism, and Efficiency: 1885–1930&amp;quot; by Richard Jensen; &amp;quot;The Limits of Federal Power and Social Policy: 1910–1955&amp;quot; by Anthony J. Badger; &amp;quot;The Rise of Rights and Rights Consciousness: 1930–1980&amp;quot; by James T. Patterson, Brown University; and &amp;quot;Economic Growth, Issue Evolution, and Divided Government: 1955–2000&amp;quot; by Byron E. Shafer&lt;br /&gt;
* Schlisinger, Galbraith. ''Of the People: The 200 Year History of the Democratic Party'' (1992)  &lt;br /&gt;
* Sundquist, James L. ''Dynamics of the Party System: Alignment and Realignment of Political Parties in the United States'',  (1983) [http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&amp;amp;d=29223022   online edition&lt;br /&gt;
* Wilentz, Sean. ''The Rise of American Democracy: Jefferson to Lincoln'' (2005), detailed synthesis by a leading liberal scholar. [http://www.amazon.com/Rise-American-Democracy-Jefferson-Lincoln/dp/0393058204/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1195784940&amp;amp;sr=8-1 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Witcover, Jules. ''Party of the People: A History of the Democrats'' (2003)&lt;br /&gt;
* Schlesinger, Arthur Meier, Jr. ed. ''History of American Presidential Elections, 1789-2000'' (various multivolume editions, latest is 2001). For each election includes a short history by a leading scholar and a selection of primary documents.&lt;br /&gt;
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==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
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==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.democrats.org/ Democratic Party Official Site]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.demconvention.com/assets/downloads/2008-Democratic-Platform-final.pdf 2008 Democratic Platform (pdf download)]&lt;br /&gt;
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[[Category:United States Political Organizations]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:United States Political Parties]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Democratic Party]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Progressive Era]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Gilded Age]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:New Deal]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Reagan Era]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:1960s]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Obama Presidency]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Liberals]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[category:Jacksonian Democracy]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Adolf_Hitler&amp;diff=799390</id>
		<title>Talk:Adolf Hitler</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Adolf_Hitler&amp;diff=799390"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T17:04:26Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Proof He's An Atheist */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[Talk:Adolf Hitler/Archive1]] &lt;br /&gt;
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==Improvement Proposals==&lt;br /&gt;
*'''''Due to vandalism, please post ''MAJOR'' improvement proposals here, in this section. '''''&lt;br /&gt;
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I know you are keen to point out other things, but could the summary maybe mention that he was also ultimately responsible as the commander of the German army for a large number of war crimes, including the execution of POWs, the leveling of civilian cities and the extermination squads killing whole civilian villages. Could we mention that his main philosophy was that enemies of the German people do not possess any rights, which even applied to citizens of Germany. And he did not only use &amp;quot;threat, intimidation, and outright violence&amp;quot; but he had brilliant polemic propaganda. He was, in the beginning elected in a democratic election. He was grossly misunderstanding and abusing scientific theories (Evolution theory may be the most known one which he perverted, but there are other branches of science as well, like medicine).&lt;br /&gt;
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I suggest a summary like this: After gaining power trough polemics and tactics in politics, he systematically undermined the constitution and the civil rights. With his power growing he used increasingly violence and threats. His philosophy was governed by the hate toward enemies of the German people, which he defined by race, religious or political attitude. He was an antisemitist, and explicitely hated Jews. He was responsible for the killings of millions in concentration camps and for war crimes like the use of chemical weapons, execution of POWs, use of extermination squads in conquered regions, and sieges against civilian cities. He defined the term &amp;quot;racial hygiene&amp;quot; in a perversion of science under which marriages between German and non Germans or German Jews had been restricted and which he used to justify killings of disabled and other people (the largest group being the Jews).&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Stitch75|Stitch75]] 00:31, 15 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Path to power ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I see that the Hayek quote got back. So, the paragraph now explains in detail, but briefly, what van Papen did, what Hitler did, what Hindenburg did, all referring to actual events. &lt;br /&gt;
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Then the article quotes Hayek out of context, and unrelated to the rest, to the effect that its is all just the socialists fault. I guess this means Conservapedia thinks that good ordinary Germans are and cannot not be blamed for what happened in the Third Reich. Is this true? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 8:40 (AEST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:It will be integrated.  Hayek is the historical narrator here. Here's more regarding Roosevelt:&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Whatever you do don't integrate it there. It is ruining the article. All paragraphs of the article except for the introduction contain historical facts and no significant interpretion. The paragraphs, The Beginning Of His Political Life, Beer Hall Putsch, Path to Power, Consolidation of Power, Holocaust, 1944 Assassination Attempt, Marriage, and Death all are fairly factual, and the Hayek quote is the only part of it offering a interpretation. If you want to discuss Hayek's contribution to the  discussion on the causes of the Third Reich, do it somewhere else, but not in the factual account. Make an article, introduce a section at the end, whatever. And then, citing Hayek as only scholar with an opinion on this issue is also insufficient. Numerous history wars were fought about this one. [[User:Order]] 31 July, 11:30&lt;br /&gt;
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::&amp;quot;The system he (FDR) blundered us into is more like the managed and bureaucratized, state supported system of Germany before World War I than our own traditional order. Before his regime we lived in a system which depended for its expansion upon private investment in private enterprise. Today we live in a system which depends for its expansion and vitality upon the government. This is a pre­war European importation ­ imported at the moment when it had fallen into complete disintegration in Europe. ...Americans trapped in the economic disasters and the political quarrels of every nation on earth and a system of permanent militarism closely resembling that we beheld with horror in Europe for decades, bureaucrats swarming over every field of life and the President calling for more power, more price­fixing, more regulations and more billions. Does this look like the traditional American scene? Or does it not look rather like the system built by Bismarck in Germany in the last century and imitated by all the lesser Bismarcks in Europe? ...No, Roosevelt did not restore our economic system. He did not construct a new one. He substituted an old one which lives upon permanent crises and an armament economy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:Actually, we already had this discussion, how the ''real'' anti-Semites &amp;amp; racists came from the former territorries of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.  [[Franz Leopold Neumann]] of the Frankfurt School of [[critical thinking]] and Chief Nurmberg Prosecution Researcher said it clearly, and most would agree (exept brainwashed Americans who believed wartime Hollywood propaganda and still do), and that is, Germany was the last place in Europe that anyone ever expect the Holocaust to take place.  And that is because nowhere in Europe had Jews been accepted and made as much social progress as in Germany.  The real fact is, it is Germany's lack of development as a Democracy that would respect everybody's rights including minorities, and the lack of citizen participation and involvement, and not racism, is how a foreigner like Hitler could get in power, import his racist ideas from Austro-Hungary which were not commonly held in Imperial or Wiemar Germany, and carry out the program he did. &lt;br /&gt;
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:And as Hayek points out, it is the Socialist who snuffed out any feelings for, or movement toward, a liberal democracy ''prior to WWI''.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:05, 30 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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First, what has FDR to with this discussion? Other than Germany wasn't the only country with a planned economy during WWII.&lt;br /&gt;
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Second, the Emperor and his political allies weren't to fond about liberal democracy either. &lt;br /&gt;
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Third, we had the discussion that they were all Austrians, and is was already debunked, because many of the main centers of Nazi support were in the Lutheran North of Germany. &lt;br /&gt;
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Fourth, don't hide all the time behind Hayek. His work is definitely interesting, especially because he was neither conservative nor socialist, but states in his work &amp;quot;Why I am not a conservative&amp;quot;, that he is an (old-school) liberal, which exists in a different political dimension. Anyway, whatever Hayek might have said, the question is what you think about the matter. Hayek isn't a Conservapedia editor, you are, and you took his sentence out of context, and put it there. So, what is you opinion on this matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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Finally, do you say that the Third Reich was Austrian Catholic Socialist venture, and the Germans had no part in it?&lt;br /&gt;
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And as an aside, I'd like to ask you if you are by any chance of North German Lutheran National Conservative descent? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 11:26&lt;br /&gt;
:So the fact Hayek stated he was not a conservative still does not place fascism at the polar end as an opposite of Communism and Socialism. We are writing historical narrative. We are using primary source, eyewitness accounts of educated and objective observers, not wartime propagandists. A lie that was told in 1933 or 1943, whether it was told by [[Josef Goebbels]], the US [[Office of War Information]], the Hollywood [[Screen Writers Guild]] or [[Franklin Roosevelt]] is as much a lie today as it was in 1933 or 1943. I'm sorry, I make no appologies for this. Facts are facts. We need to explain to the youth of the planet (a) what happened, and (b) ''why'' it happened. Sourcing, and the ''credibility'' of sourcing is paramount. Simply because a myth has been handed down by popular culture or proven liars means nothing. In fact, we have every obligation to correct the record. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:41, 30 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* What has FDR to do with this matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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* I am not sure to which lie you refer? Can you be precise? Do you mean to say that it is a lie that a broad section of German society was bearing responsibility for the Third Reich, and not just a group of Austrian catholic crypto-socialists? Can you answer this please?&lt;br /&gt;
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* I never said that because Nazism wasn't socialist, it must have been conservative. To the contrary. And I didn't say that Socialism was the anti-thesis of Nazism. And therefore good. I repeatedly said that it was neither socialist, nor conservative, and that communism and Nazism were both totalitarian. I said it repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. So don't make stuff up. But just because they were both totalitarian doesn't mean that they are the same.&lt;br /&gt;
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* The article was factual, until you added the Hayek quote giving an interpretation by Hayek. What you report isn't an eyewitness account, but the interpretation of a contemporary.  I agree that should tell the youth first what happened. And that is exactly why the Hayek quote is at it a wrong place, because it not describing a factual event, it is interpretation.  Feel free to add a section on the &amp;quot;history wars&amp;quot; that discussed the causes of the Third Reich. However, I see no need to single out Hayek as only scholar who had something to contribute to the discussion. Other scholars were contemporaries too, and have made equally credible contributions. &lt;br /&gt;
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* And finally, I am still curious if are by any chance of North German Lutheran National Conservative descent? [[User:Order]] 31 July, 13:36&lt;br /&gt;
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#FDR &amp;amp; Hitler articles are part of the WWII series.&lt;br /&gt;
#We're actually not that far off on the [[political spectrum theory]] aspects of National Socialism; the tradional telling is Communism &amp;amp; Fascism are polar opposites.  This isn't what happened.  Two extreme factions of an anti-God ideology got in a big dispute, and 55 million people--many not sympathetic to either side--got killed in the process.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:45, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* What has FDR to do with which parts of the German society bears responsibility?&lt;br /&gt;
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* Nazism wasn't anti-god. Sure, Hitler wasn't what you would a good Christian, and he was anti-clerical when it interfered with his business, but he was a theist, and Nazism as ideology was in favor of &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;. Unlike its socialist roots, this principle has never been been amended. Before you get all excited, I do know that the Nazi view of Christianity is fundamentally different from what the main Churches of today teach. I don't not say that all Christians are Nazis, but just that Nazism wasn't anti-God. &lt;br /&gt;
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* I never said that they are polar opposites, and the article didn't say it either. But just because they are not polar opposites, doesn't means that they are the same. [[User:Order]] 31 July, 15:00&lt;br /&gt;
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::One of the very important aspects of National Socialism is, Nazi's were enlightend Socialists who got thier enlgihtened, athiestic doctrines from Socialsim.  This enlightened, athiestic doctrine, i.e. to overthrow the existing order, or to promote &amp;quot;change&amp;quot; in social organization and institutions that challenged the power of the church, and exisitng Christian morality, such as the commandment to love thine enemies, the Nazi's got from their Socialist roots.&lt;br /&gt;
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::Socialism preached hate and envy, and destruction of alleged &amp;quot;oppressors;&amp;quot; Christianity, or the &amp;quot;old social order&amp;quot; preached tolerence and acceptance of all, Greek and Jew alike. This is where Jewish doctine and Christian doctrine separate--Jews adhered to the old Mosaic command to love thine friend and hate thine enemy.  Christian doctrine, or the &amp;quot;established order&amp;quot; taught &amp;quot;love thine enemies&amp;quot;, even those who oppose themselves.  When God was rejected wholesale in the [[French Revolution]], and Marx &amp;amp; Darwin substituted man having dominion over the earth (as in both Hebrew &amp;amp; Christian scriptures), with the doctrine of ''Natural Selection of '''Favored Races''''', [[class hate]] and [[class war]], and the doctrine that man is an animal, these doctines were applied to those (&amp;lt;u&amp;gt;whom it was percieved&amp;lt;/u&amp;gt;) promoted the doctrines. IOW, since man is an animal, if you can kill a dog, you can kill a man. And there is no consequences, final judgement, or higher power to answer to.  '''''It is the enlightened doctrine of Natural Selection of Favored Races being applied in its most logical, and rational, form.'''''  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:47, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* First, it  Nazi apologetic to say that Nazism is the most logical and rational. What essential say is that everybody who doesn't share your views '''must''' kill other people based on race. This is a call for genocide, as I see it. And excuses them. Because you say that there is only one logical conclusion, the Nazis had no choice. Which is not true, because they had a choice. You did put into quotes, so I don't know who said it, but since you post it without comment, I have to assume that it also your opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
:*I didn't say this at all.  I said Nazism is the natural consequence and outgrowth of enlighten Socialism.  That is, more specifically, Naxism is the natural consequence of ''both'' the [[Enlightenment]] and [[Karl Marx]], (and [[Darwinism]], an enlightened subfield of 19th century thought).  Let me put it quite specifically, it is a straight line of deductive reasoning from the Enlightenment which caused the overthrow of the ''Ancien Regime'' to the Holocaust.  There are no divergent paths.  It is the natural process and outgrowth of logical thought along that path.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::What you say is that Nazism was unavoidable, it was the logical consequence of the 19th century. This lets all the people of the hook who helped the Nazis to power in the 1930; this lets all the people of the hook who imprisoned, tortured, and killed people during the Third Reich, and it lets all the people off who invaded other countries an bombed and burned their population in WWII. Because it was inevitable in your reasoning. This a very extreme position withing the already disputed Sonderweg theory, and generally rejected, even by other adherents of the Sonderweg theory. It is generally accepted that some important people had the choice to act differently, but they didn't, and if they had acted different, history would be different as well. [[User:Order]] 2 August, 12:26&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Not at all. What I am saying is worshipping at the altar of science, logic, and reason, in lieu of God, is what the progressive development of 19th century ''thought'' was all about.  And yes, destruction is unavoidable when secularism rejected the Jewish God, that is to say, Jehovah - as a Jewish conspiracy, which is what led [[Marie Antoinette]] to the gallows.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Can you point us to an [[atheism|atheist]] who reject all gods, because they think that it is all a jewish conspiracy? Russel? Dawkins? Or Sam Harris? I guess there is none. They reject gods, because they think that they are inconsistent with what they assume to know about the world. Just because you don't like them, and maybe disagree with their reasoning, doesn't mean that you have to vilify them and make up reasons for their atheism, that are not true. The &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;, advocated by the Nazis, didn't think that it was all a conspiracy, but they thought, that Christ original message, was corrupted by Jews and jewish thought. [[User:Order]] 3 august, 10:00&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::I think most of the Nazi's writers certainly make that case, and some point to earlier, 19th century writers to support their arguments.  All of them, Hitler &amp;amp; Hess in ''Mien Kampf'', Goebbels, several others all make this central agrument.  In particular, read the outline of Hitler's unpublished second book, editied by Joachim Fest, tentative title was ''The Monumental History of Mankind''.  It's unmistakeable, &amp;quot;Judah&amp;quot; is responsible for all the planet's problems since time immemorial according to Hitler.  Folks like Voltaire, Marx, and Darwin just paved the path for Hitler &amp;amp; Hess (actually Rudolf Hess did write most of ''Mein Kampf''), Alfred Rosenberg, Houston Stuart Chamberlain, ''et al''.  Betrand Russell and Vladimir Lenin are simply first cousins of this line of &amp;quot;intellectual thought.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:20, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::And I didn't deny that the Nazis and their &amp;quot;Positive Christianity&amp;quot; did blame Jews, to the contrary I '''did'' actually say it. Problem is &amp;quot;Positive Christianity&amp;quot; is theist, not atheist. [[User:Order]] 3 August, 11:35&lt;br /&gt;
::::::::You're going to have to prompt my memory with this one, I really have been away from most of these primary sources since the late 1970s.  A link might help, too.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::And just because secular athiesm has unavoidable consequence does not mean at all that that those consequences are justified.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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::::I didn't mean to say that you justified the consequence, I meant to say that it was inevitable, such that in the end no p[erson is personally responsible for the committed crimes.[[User:Order]] 3 august, 10:00&lt;br /&gt;
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* Second. Did you call Nazism enlightened? Just because they respected private property, and sold human beings as raw material to the companies to keep their production running?  &lt;br /&gt;
:*Yes. Nazi's were enlightened atheists who viewed Christianity, as it had been viewed since the time of Voltaire, as a Jewish conspiracy which the Jews themselves did not beleive in.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::(1) What has Voltaire to do with the matter? (2) As is said on this page already, Hitlers view was apparently that the true theistic faith that later became Christianity was corrupted by Jews, but he didn't reject the notion of a god.  He wanted a religion that was cleansed from the jewish influences.  But even if he wasn't an atheist, he still was a bad person. Bin Laden isn't an atheist either. Why are you hung up about proving that he is an atheist, if he said himself that he wasn't. [[User:Order]] 2 August 00:08 (AEST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::See above.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::This really is a digression, some atheists who do not worship Jehovah worship self or Satan as their god.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Third. Even if you keep repeating it, it is wrong to call a movement that had the inscription &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; on their belt when went out to war atheist, or even anti-God. And how do you explain the following sentence from their party program &amp;quot;Die Partei als solche vertritt den Standpunkt eines positiven Christentums, ohne sich konfessionell an ein bestimmtes Bekenntnis zu binden.&amp;quot; Doesn't strike me as anti-God. And I repeat it again, in case you didn't get it, this I do not say that their view of Christianity is in any way compatible with your view on Christianity. &lt;br /&gt;
:*The old &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; argument.  Actually, that was the inscription on the Imperial German belts '''''in the Erste Welt Krieg'''''; the Nazi's substituted the swastika, and later brought back the old imperial inscription.  Further, if you look, it is quotation from the Hebrew scriptures: &amp;quot;Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for '''God is with us'''.&amp;quot; [http://biblebrowser.com/isaiah/8-10.htm] And there is a famous photograph of none other than Ernest Hemingway with a First World War (i.e. no swastika) &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot;  belt buckle in the 1930s.  Do an internet search if you want to see it. Finally, if you're reaching for this argument, it means you're running out of gas.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:37, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::* It seem like you can buy those belt buckles of the internet. I don't want to post neo-nazi sites on this page, but google for ''' &amp;quot;gott mit uns&amp;quot; hakenkreuz''', and you will find where you can buy them. &lt;br /&gt;
:::*For the second time &amp;quot;Gott mit uns&amp;quot; is (a) from the Hebrew scriptures, and (b) from Imperial Germany.  Using this logic, we should abandoned the Hebrew scriptures because the Nazi's ripped them off.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 00:56, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I am not sure how long will take until it get through to you, but I still didn't say that Christianity is Nazism. And I also did not say that Christianity is using Nazi symbols. I said that Nazis used references to God. And that many Nazis, and among them quite likely Hitler himself, were theists. This means that they weren't atheists. You might know that &amp;quot;theist&amp;quot; is not the same as being a &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot;. And you might also know that not being a &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot; following your particular interpretation of the scripture doesn't mean that you are an &amp;quot;atheist&amp;quot;. The Nazis advocated &amp;quot;positive Christianity&amp;quot;, something which should be different from your version of Christianity, but which is still decidedly theist. This is something different from saying that Christians are Nazis. What is so difficult to understand about that? you are barking up the wrong tree. For days. And I am telling you for days. [[User:Order]] 1 August, 23:58&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Ok, this argument is difficult for obvious reason.  Hitler certainly did not accept the existence or soveriegnty of the Jewish God, Jehovah.  Neither did Hitler accept the old Nordic gods like Wotan, despite some rumors (Ludendorf perhaps did).  Hitler may have believed in some sort of Providence, as Menachim Begin referred to, also.  Who is this &amp;quot;Providence&amp;quot;?  IMHO, it is was most likely Satan, however if Hitler were here, and if you asked him, he'd probably most certainly deny it and laugh, as most Hollywood movie producers would laugh also at the same question.  &lt;br /&gt;
:::::So, we're at the crossroads in examining where a person may actually be admitting to some divine supernatural being greater then themselves that they are in subservience to.  Most spiritually decieved people never even get this far, laboring under the notion that they themselves are god, i.e. that their life purpose is to serve themself.  Now, if a deluded soul arrives at the point where they recognize a supernatural power apart from themself, more powerful than themself, and to whom they owe some sort of debt even, and at the same time pointedly denying this supernatural power is Jehovah, for all intents and purposes we can conclude they are avowed Satanists.  So the only remaining question is, when Hitler survived the July 20, 1944 assassination attempt, and Goebbels convinced Hitler Providence intervened, did he really believe it, or was he just going along with another propaganda scheme?  &lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Whatever you conclude from all this, you're not going to find a very widely accepted doctrine, even among Nazi party members. The vast majority of Nazi party members, and even sympathetic non-party members, were simply garden variety athiestic socialists, who would laugh at the idea they worshipped and/or served Satan.  Yes, there were occultists, like Himmler and many top Nazi's, but the vast majortiy of the public just looked on this behavior not very different from the seances [[Hillary Clinton]] used to hold on the [[White House]] roof.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:40, 6 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::*And what about point 24 in the progam of the NSDAP? About &amp;quot;positive christianity&amp;quot; [[User:Order]] &lt;br /&gt;
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* Thanks for proving my point. I said: '''I do know that the Nazi view of Christianity is fundamentally different from what the main Churches of today teach''', but you still could help giving me the spiel that Nazism and Christianity is different. Read my postings for a change, instead of making stuff. It seems that you can only argue against stuff I didn't say. [[User:Order]] 1 August, 11:23&lt;br /&gt;
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:*Wikipedia, believe it or not, has a good article on Hanns Kerrl. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Kerrl]  This could be expanded upon, and I hope to do so here in CP.  For now, here's a quote from Hitler in ''Tischgesprache'', 14th December 1941 Midday, &lt;br /&gt;
::*&amp;quot;Kerrl, with the noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....Pure Christianity...is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics.&amp;quot; [p. 145-146]  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 23:38, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Nice quote. Of course there is a dispute about the &amp;quot;Tischgespraeche itself. whether they took place in the form Kerrl reported. But lets no go down this road. Lets take it at face value. It say that he doesn't like the Christian message of forgivenes and compassion. And guess what, that is what I told now already countable time myself. So why do you keep on hammering this point?&lt;br /&gt;
* Actually, a very nice quote. Because he actually says that he reject Bolshevism wholeheartedly. That the he sees a Bolshevistic aspect in Christianity, and that it is exactly this aspect that is incompatible with Nazism. This quote proves that the Fuehrer himself believed that bolshevism and Nazism were incompatible. You made my point, Rob. Thanks.  [[User:Order]] 1 August 14:00&lt;br /&gt;
:*Yes. Nazism simply replaced the word &amp;quot;bourgeois&amp;quot; in [[Marxist]] rhetoric, with &amp;quot;Jewish&amp;quot;, but all the other rhetoric remained the same (incidentally, the [[DNC]] does this very same thing, instead of &amp;quot;rich Jew&amp;quot;, they simply use &amp;quot;The Rich.&amp;quot;)  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 23:30, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
You didn't answer one my questions, and I am still curious: Are you by any chance of Conservative Lutheran North German descent? [[User:Order|Order]] 23:35, 20 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:I am of mixed race: 50% German 50% Slavic.  I was raised Catholic, but today am moreless a Dispensationalist Christian.  Some roots come from Stetin (Szczecin) which was mixed German/Polish &amp;amp; defintiely devout Catholic when they arrived in America; others come from Slovakia.  And there were &amp;quot;mixed marriages&amp;quot; in the US, i.e. my mothers father was Lutheran.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:08, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
===contemporaneous corroboration===&lt;br /&gt;
Ok, returning to Hayek, whom we use a 1945 quote, let's look at a 1940 quote from a Socialist publication during the [[Phoney War]] which says virtually the same thing Hayek said after Hitler blew his brains out:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;'''From 1905 to 1940'''&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
:'''The downfall of bourgeois democracy in Europe did not begin with Hitler. Hitler is a result not a cause'''. The crisis of Europe first showed itself in the Russian revolution of 1905. That it was a world crisis and not a European crisis was proved by the course of the war in 1914. That war neither ended nor made the world safe for democracy. '''The characteristic feature of the period 1918-39 was the destruction of democracy''' in country after country, with or '''without the violent defeat of the socialist movement''', and the steady preparation for the second imperialist war. '''Without socialism, the war of 1939''', Hitler victory or no Hitler victory, '''must inevitably mean the complete destruction of democracy''' all over Europe, the development of the totalitarian state in America, and still further battles for the re-division of the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:'''The question that faces us, therefore, as Marxian socialists, is to estimate soberly, at this critical moment, what are the possibilities for the socialist revolution''', the only force that can check the descent into the abyss and reverse the process of disintegration. The possibility of an early Hitler victory, the tremendous power displayed by the German military machine, the inevitable demoralization of the anti-Hitler forces in Germany by his uninterrupted march of success – these things undoubtedly have altered the former perspective of a long drawn-out war ending in immediate revolution. Let us, however, before we speculate on the future, examine the past.&lt;br /&gt;
*Source:[http://www2.cddc.vt.edu/marxists/history/etol/newspape/ni/vol06/no04/editorial.htm#s1 ''Blitzkrieg and Revolution''], An Editorial, From New International, Vol.6 No.4, May 1940, pp.83-87.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And here is the Hayek quote:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;By the time Hitler came to power, liberalism was dead in Germany. And it was socialism that had killed it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Analysis of comparison;''' while Hayek uses the term &amp;quot;liberalism&amp;quot;, the ''New International'' editorial uses &amp;quot;democracy.&amp;quot;  In both, they are talking about the same thing, and they both make reference to the fact that Socialism survived the destruction of liberal democracy.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 18:50, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I guess the highlighting is by you and not by the ''New International''. Where in the text by the socialist publication do they say that they destroyed liberalism or democracy? To the contrary, the article even suggests that without socialism democracy will be destroyed, and the writer even argues that socialists are the only movement capable of saving democracy. Take for example: ''Without socialism, the war of 1939 must inevitably mean the complete destruction of democracy''. No Socialism, no democracy. According the the ''New International''. The fragment that you quoted tell that democracy got destroyed, and then even claims that the Marxist Socialist are the only force that can reverse the process of disintegration. This quote shows clearly that even the Socialist disagree with your interpretation of the Hayek quote. I am not sure why you like to quote material that proves my point. [[User:Order]] 2 august 10:00 (AET)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::The question simply is over blame.  Hayek says socialism destroyed liberalism; the Socialist publication says &amp;quot;The characteristic feature of the period 1918-39 was the destruction of democracy in country after country, with or without the violent defeat of the socialist movement.&amp;quot;  Of course they are not going to take the same position as Hayek, i.e. that they caused it.  But they are observing the same phenomenea, that liberal democracy faded, and socialism survived.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 20:11, 1 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:So all you wanted to say it that democracies in 1920/30s democracies in Europe failed. I don't need Hayek or the New International to tell that. In Italy, Germany, Spain, Russia, and even in Poland and Austria, democracy wasn't going too well. If this is what you want to say both quotes aren't that great to make that point. Given that the other paragraphs in the article are referring to actual events, and not to interpretations from 30 years later, or from a contemporary opinion pieces, you should refer to events in the other countries to make your point.  [[User:Order]] 2 august 18:00&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::A reading of both documents is illuminating (and other materials could support it, too).  We extracted just one sentence from Hayek, but the whole paragraph sheds even more light, and other quotes, too. Hayek says something to the effect of &amp;quot;fascism is the result when people realize Communism does not work&amp;quot; (to put it another way, Socialism, which evolves into Communism, does not bring democracy, it brings fascism).  ''The New International'' quote above says the same thing, &amp;quot;Hitler is a result not a cause.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 12:58, 2 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is agreed that, if not the idea of fascism, then at least the rise of fascism in Europe was a reaction to communism, especially to the rise of Bolshevism in the Soviet Union. But even for that their are better quotes to find that support this. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyway, what we have now are eight sections on Hitlers life. Look at them one by one:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*  ''The Beginning Of His Political Life'': 2 paragraphs, both on fact and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Beer Hall Putsch'': 2 paragraphs on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Path to Power'' 2 paragaphs on fact and events. And '''one''' sentence of interpretation, the Hayek quote. &lt;br /&gt;
* ''Consolidation of Power'': 4 paragraphs on fact and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Holocaust'': 2 paragraphs on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''1944 Assassination Attempt'': 1 paragraph on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Marriage'' : 1 paragraph on facts and events.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Death'' :: 1 paragraph on facts and events. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Altogether 15 paragraphs on facts and events, and one single unrelated sentence that says only indirectly what you actually want to say, namely that fascism was a reaction to Bolshevism. This is not the way to go. The right thing to do would be to remove the Hayek quote from where it is, and if you insist on discussing the causes, a separate section on what scholars said about the causes. And Hayek isn't the only scholar you should mention. Taylor, Turner, Dawidowicz and even Goldhagen come to mind, and there are numerous others. But an isolated blurb, whose meaning isn't obvious after first reading, isn't the way to go.  [[User:Order]] 6 august 10:20&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Actually, to say fascism is a &amp;quot;reaction&amp;quot; can be somewhat misleading.  What we know is, that communism and fascism ''do not'' represent polar opposites; fasism is the end result of a ''process'' who's original aim is that socialist utopia called 'communism'.  The process goes something like this: a liberal society embraces socialism; socialism smothers liberalism (the socialist ideal of the collective being greater than the individual stamps out progress on the road to the Rights of Man); socialism's ultimate goal is communism, but when the people realize communism is only a dream, fascism is the end result.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Where does 'reaction' implies polar opposites? Where? Every person in his right mind knows that both were totalitarian. [[User:Order]] &lt;br /&gt;
:::The problem with this one is the usual misinformation taught at the junior high school level in  definition of &amp;quot;reactionary;&amp;quot; while on one level, fascim indeed was a &amp;quot;reaction&amp;quot; to communism, it was actually part of a progressive process, not a reactionary polar opposite.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:There are no polar opposites, liberalism devolves into socialism, socialism evolves into communism, and communism ultimately evolves into fascism.  I have another eyewitness source who uses the phrase &amp;quot;Red fascism.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:20, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You are applying the cold-war and 1980's US definition of &amp;quot;Liberal&amp;quot;, because actual Liberals of that time, and Hayek is a prime example, would  strongly disagree with you. They would probably hit you with a stick. Liberals like Hayek were firmly the opposed to both socialism and fascism, because both were totalitarian. Also it is provably wrong to say that people first embraced socialism, before they became fascists. Many embraced fascism right away, from being national conservative, or monarchist, or whatever other -ism you had in that time. Often out of fear of Bolshevism. [[User:Order]]  6 august 11:30&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I agree the contemporary, popular use of the term &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; is a misnomer, particularly in the United States.  The correct term is &amp;quot;socialist,&amp;quot; even with its US shading to mean &amp;quot;treasonous,&amp;quot; which is becoming more apparant as time goes by.  It is unfortunate, Ronald Reagan, Milton Friedman, and Boris Yeltsin, all [[classical liberal]]s, did somewhat rehabitilate the term in the 1980s &amp;amp; early 90s, but the old perjoritives all came back to stick (most probably through Rush Limbaugh and the lifting of the [[Fairness Doctrine]], which is very well explained in CP's entry).  FWIW, it looks like we're stuck with the pejoritive, contemporary American meaning of the term liberal.  Of course, the [[MSM]] and the [[DNC]] have been of little help in clarifing its real meaning.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 5 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==von Papen==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I see that the Hayek quote is still in there. I also saw that you portrayed the period of imperial Germany as one in which it was a socialist paradise. And also there you quote Hayek. Hayek would hit you with a stick for this, because he knew perfectly well that this is plain ridiculous. Imperial Germany was Bismarck, Kulturkampf, Nationalismus, Demokratiedefizit, Sozialistenerlaesse, Sozialversicherung, Flottenausbau, Wilhelm Zwo.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And when it comes to the beginnings of the Third Reich you might want check which party van Papen belonged to, which parties did vote, under pressure but they did, in favour of his empowerment laws, which party the rest of Hitlers first cabinet belong too, which parties were part of the Harzburg front, the political background of Hugenberg, Schacht, and others who actually helped Hitler to power. You can impossibly claim that it was all just a socialist endeavor. But it seems that fact don't count here, while I had hope that we could keep spin out of the a subject as important as Hitler. Peace be upon you. [[User:Order|Order]] 20:08, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Interesting premise; one of the charges against von Papen at Nuremberg was he was part of the Nazi conspiracy, but as you just pointed out, he was never a member of the Nazi Party.  Why can't these things ever be discussed dispassionately?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:32, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Exactly, my point. He wasn't a member of the Nazi party, he was a prominent member of the Zentrum party, a Catholic Party, and he still helped Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:06, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So, dare I ask the question, is it unfair to refer to him as a &amp;quot;Nazi War Criminal&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 23:26, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
It might be unfair, not sure what the Nuremberg Trial decided.  Did I call him &amp;quot;Nazi War Criminal&amp;quot;? To the contrary, the point is that he probably isn't, but that he was a fairly normal German centrist politician, who still helped Hitler into power.  [[User:Order|Order]] 23:38, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Truth is, he really had a disdain for Hitler, and Hitler didn't care much for von Papen either.  And their mutual distrust and resentment had little to do with politics.  It was a class difference.  Von Papen regarded Hitler as an ill-mannered low-life, and Hitler thought von Papen an artistocratic snob.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:21, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:There is famous newsreel footage with no audio of [[Treaty of Munich]] that reveals the difference between the two.  Von Papen and Hitler are leading the guests which include Ciano &amp;amp; Chamberlain into a room.  Hitler plops himself down in a chair, while von Papen observes the diplomatic nicities of remaining standing until all the guests are in the room and seated.  Hitler clearly is embarassed the moment he sits down and sees von Papen remaining standing, and its all caught on film.  He knows he looks crude, rude, selfish, and inexperienced in just simple manners, let alone protocol, or &amp;quot;high class&amp;quot; manners. And it's almost as if he feels deliberately tricked by von Papen into making himself look bad. Very revealing, if uyou ever get a chance to see it. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:30, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
So, van Papen didn't even like this guy, and still helped him to get to power, and worked for him until Munich. So, we found already one person who wasn't an ideologue but was still working for the third Reich.  [[User:Order|Order]] 00:36, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::So the Foreign Minster of the Third Riech wasn't even a Nazi, was not one of the 22 Nazi War Criminals at Nuremberg (although history remembers him that way), was found innocent at Nuremberg of being part of the Nazi conspiracy to (a) sieze power (b) make aggresive war (c) etc., although you persist in making that charge. [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:03, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Did the Nuremberg trail say that it was a conspiracy? I doubt so. And indeed, van Papen helped Hitler to power, I guess there is little discussion about it. One might argue about his motivation, but seems to not much of a mystery either. [[User:Order|Order]] 04:21, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes it did.  The [[Treaty of Munich]] was a &amp;quot;conspiracy against Peace&amp;quot;, as well as all the other events (re-occupation of Rhineland, Invasion of Poland, etc.)  Then there was &amp;quot;conspiracy to wage aggressive war&amp;quot;, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
:One should read the Nuremberg Indictment in its entirety [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count.htm].  It really is not that long.  And it sets out all the major issues to be dealt with prior and afterwards. (One writer has explained why the charge of &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot;, Britian needed it to CYA for thier policy of appeasement, i.e. Britian couldn't live up to treaty obligations because it was a victim of a conspiracy--and von Papen's aquittal addresses that argument).&lt;br /&gt;
:You will see, for example, the Katyn massacre.  Peculiar, isn't it, that while the Western Powers knew this Soviet charge was false, and that indeed one of the Administators of Justice in this case himself was guilty of the charge, allowed it to become part of the historical record (this record, which then was resurrected in the mid 1990's as the model of Administering International Justice for War Crimes); also, after reading the horrors that the Soviet's present, we almost get comic relief at France's idea of Crimes Against Humanity, like plunder of property [http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count3.htm#sec8e]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Wine..................................................................7,647,000 hectolitres.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Champagne...................................................87,000,000 bottles&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Beer...................................................................3,821,520 hectolitres&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Various kinds of alcohol.................................1,830,000 hectolitres &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The myth of France as a &amp;quot;Great Power&amp;quot; (or for that matter, a &amp;quot;victim&amp;quot; when France provided more manpower, and more [[GDP]] to the Nazi cause than it did to defend, or liberate, itself, is something that at some point needs to clarified in the English language.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Another point, the various charges of &amp;quot;mass deportation of populations&amp;quot;, while Germans were being deported east of the Oder-Niese, the Keelhaul Agreement, the Crimean Taters, the Volga Germans etc. etc. etc. were occuring, has never been addressed (outside of Solzhenitsyn's ''Gulag Archipeligo''), or &amp;quot;systematic malnutrition&amp;quot;, which Lenin &amp;amp; Stalin perfected long before Hitler adopted [[Bolshevik]] methods.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:42, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Treaty of Munich]] happened after the seizure of power. And saying the this treaty was &amp;quot;a conspiracy against peace&amp;quot;, is also something slightly different than claiming that &amp;quot;Nazism is a conspiracy&amp;quot;. And the rest are tangents. The question was still about who helped Hitler to power, not what happened afterwards or elsewhere. And von Papen was still one of the people who brought Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:04, 21 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Unfortunately, all we have is the historical record.  And the Nuremberg trial rendered its verdict.  You are arguing the case that everyone deficient in psychic powers in 1933 is complicit in genocide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:It's not unlike the recent book on IBM; because Nazi's purchased IBM equipment, all the shareholders, employees, and Board of Directors past and present who &amp;quot;did business with the Nazi's&amp;quot; are complicit in genocide.  By this line of argument, if Nazi's purchased Crest Toothpaste and Charmin Toilet Paper, Crest Toothpaste and Charmin Toiler Paper likewise &amp;quot;did business with the Nazi's.&amp;quot;  Don't forget Hitler's shoeshine boy, he must have been involved, too.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 16:25, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Did I somewhere say that van Papen is responsible for genocide? I agreed that the Nuremberg trial is probably the instance that had to decide on this. So but what you say that that van Papen is as responsible for Hitlers rise to power as Hitler shoe shine boy. Did the shoe shine boy go to Hindenburg and convince him to make Hitler chancellor? I doubt it. What I see that you go on all kinds tangents, just because you are unable to accept the historical fact that there were centrist and conservative politicians who helped Hitler to power. [[User:Order|Order]] 18:44, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Here's the probelm: Hitler was legally came to power under the then Wiemar Constitution.  He overwhelmingly won a popular election as well.  The Wiemar Constitution wasn't even indigenous, it was imposed as a &amp;quot;liberal reform.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Now, if you are to allege that Hitler, a common scum, came to power outside of some secret Masonic Illuminati cabal that really controls things, and therefore Hitler and the Nazis claim on power was illigimate, we have a problem there.  As it is, Hitler was never invited by the French government to visit Paris anytime from the day he came to power. Why is this? Because he was illigitmate? Because he was outside of a clique of insiders who determine who should hold power?  Do you see where this line of rhetoric is going to lead you?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 21:31, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You try to get the discussion on all kinds of tangents, like whether the constitution was indigenous, Masonic Illuminati, French inviting Hitler for supper, IBM, Crest tooth paste. Rob, you are alleging all kinds of things that I never said, and that frankly do not even matter. Fact is Hitler came to power under the Weimar constitution. Did I say otherwise? I don't think so. Fact is also that he didn't win a majority of seats, so he needed the help of others. And van Papen was one of then who helped. And Hugenberg another. BTW: While van Papen wasn't found guilty in the Nuremberg trial to be one of the main criminals, he was sentenced to 8 years in prison during denazification for his role as collaborator and enabler. Why is it so hard for you to admit the fact that there were conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. No, you rather talk about Illuminati to not to have admit this simple fact. [[User:Order|Order]] 21:56, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So, welfare queens &amp;amp; labor unions help Bill Clinton get into power, despite the fact he sold them down the river with NAFTA &amp;amp; Welfare Reform.  Do you think they might have voted any different if they knew they'd be &amp;quot;stabbed in the back&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:00, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
For discussing Bill Clinton, go to the entry [[Bill Clinton]]. We are discussing Hitler's path to power. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:02, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:OK. What's wrong with this text: &lt;br /&gt;
:*''After a series of minority cabinets former Chancellor van Papen convinced President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler to become Chancellor in a coalition government with the national conservative party. Van Papen expected the nation would recognize Hitler to be a fraud within a few months in government.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Seems to say what you want it to say.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:05, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No surprise. I wrote it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Problem is still the Hayek quote that you took out of context. It suggests that the path to power was purely a socialist endeavor. However, and I cite you citing me:&lt;br /&gt;
*''After a series of minority cabinets former Chancellor van Papen convinced President Hindenburg to appoint Hitler to become Chancellor in a coalition government with the national conservative party. Van Papen expected the nation would recognize Hitler to be a fraud within a few months in government.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See, it wasn't just the socialists who brought Weimar down. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:11, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:What Hayek is saying is liberalism, in the classic sense, was weakened to non-existent to oppose Nazism.  And your use of conservative here likewise is problematic; the titled nobility of Germany, or for that matter all of Europe, is &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; in the European sense.  As we've had this discussion elsewhere, the US Constitution expressly prohibits the government from conferring titles.  So the express meaning of the term here, &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; to refer to von Papen and others is wholely out of context in attempt to draw a parallel to contemporary American conservativism.  &lt;br /&gt;
:Shame on you, Order, I have more respect for you and your skills than this feeble reasoning your pushing.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:19, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Classic liberalism was indeed weakened, and the permanent attacks from both sides of the spectrum didn't help. But where did the liberals go? Some went left, other went right. My use of &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; is fairly consistent with the use by the people in question themselves. The DNVP, the German National People Party, was for example the legitimate successor of the pre-WWI Konservative Partei, the Conservative Party. This is the party that helped Hitler to a majority of seats in parliament. Same holds for von Papen, he was from the conservative wing of the Zentrum party. I said it a few times in this thread already that contemporary US interpretations of 'left' and 'right' don't apply to the 1930s in Germany, so I am not sure what you are complaining about.  And there is no shame in pushing the fact that there were also conservative politicians in Germany who made didn't mind that Weimar failed, who didn't shed a tear when Hitler came to power. One of the lesson of the Third Reich is that if you fail to fix an imperfect democracy for short term political gain, you might end up with something worse in the long run. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:32, 26 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This is an interesting discussion. Truth is, its been many years since I've reviewed any of these source materials in detail.  Likewise I did read von Papen's memoirs many many years ago, and am familiar with his case.  Seems much of this discussion only grabs tidbits from this or that source, usually out of context, so let's make some effort to set the materials before us (incidentally, von Papen was sentenced to 8 years, yet served less than two; and this is not the place to go into why he was tried a second time after being aquited the first time).&lt;br /&gt;
::There's is nothing special about it. The Nuremberg Trials where aimed at the top of the regime, while the Denazification was aimed to determine the involvement of all people who held office, 2.5 million people in the western Germany alone. He probably was sentenced as 'offender'. The majority were judged to be 'followers', or even acquitted. Von Papen obviously wasn't. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:34, 27 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
:::He was tried twice because of the outrage over the verdict.  Double jeopardy goes against Anglo-American jurisprudence.  Even the Soviet Judges could not find conspiracy on his part.  And when the poltical situation changed in 1949, so did the second verdict against von Papen.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:38, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::The Soviets didn't agree with the judgment of the Nuremberg trial and wrote dissenting Opinion[http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-dissenting-von-papen.html]. The second trial was in a civil court, and I guess it happens also in the US that someone is found not guilty of criminal charges, but gets convicted in civil court nevertheless. But I couldn't find much about the second trial, so I trust you that the second trial was a result of public outrage. I guess that proves that while he might have not been guilty in criminal court, he messed up politically. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:11, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:OK, let's look at the original indictment, and then the Judgement.  Von Papen is indeed charged with all the same things you are charging him with here: &amp;quot;Von Papen Used His Personal Influence To Promote The Accession Of The Nazis To Power. &amp;quot; ''et seqq'' [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/nca/nca-02/nca-02-16-18-index.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Let's look at the Judgement: &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933, in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January;&amp;quot; Wikipedia reports &amp;quot;The central role that Papen played in Hitler's appointment as Chancellor in January 1933 was reflected by Papen's indictment at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trial, though he was acquitted on formal reasons, the tribunal deciding that his &amp;quot;political immoralities&amp;quot; were not under its jurisdiction.&amp;quot;  This of course, is totally false, as the Nuremberg Judgement clearly, clearly states: &amp;quot;The evidence leaves no doubt that von Papen's primary purpose as Minister to Austria was to undermine the Schuschnigg regime and strengthen the Austrian Nazis for the purpose of bringing about Anschluss. To carry through this plan he engaged in both intrigue and bullying. But the Charter does not make criminal such offenses against political morality, however bad these may be. &amp;quot; [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/judgment/j-defendants-von-papen.html]&lt;br /&gt;
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:Conlcusion: (a) von Papen's &amp;quot;political immortality&amp;quot; (singular), as rendered by the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal, related to the Anschluss, '''''and not the Nazi's regimes rise to power in Germany.'''''  Further, the Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal fails to make any mention whatsoever about any sort of complicity in conspiracy or for that matter anything about his role in helping Hitler gained power. All the Tribunal found, as cited above, is &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; with the final verdict, &amp;quot;The Tribunal finds that von Papen is not guilty under this Indictment, and directs that he shall be discharged.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:So lets get the facts in order before we even discuss making generalizations.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:03, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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So, we still agree that he wasn't one of about 20 people that were found guilty as war criminals in the Nuremberg Trial. Thanks for posting the judgment. The second paragraph of the judgment refers exactly to what we are discussing here.  &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933, in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January, 1933 &amp;quot;. That he was found not guilty for his role in the Anschluss is another matter. That happened a few years later. Thanks again for posting the official judgment which essentially confirms what I said. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:17, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:So what was he guilty of as &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; since contrary to ''both'' you ''and'' Wikipedia's claim, the Tribunal found this '''''did not''''' even  constitute an offense against &amp;quot;political morality&amp;quot;, let alone a crime, or conspiracy?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:38, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I still didn't say that he was part of the conspiracy to start an agressive war. And why should we care what Wikipedia says. The tribunal had to determine which people were responsible for the ''aggressive war''. It judged that it could not be established beyond reasonable doubt that von Papen was involved in planning an aggressive war. That is why they acquitted the charges. However, the tribunal found him politically responsible, but that under the charter of the tribunal, they couldn't convict him for &amp;quot;such offenses against political morality, however bad these may be&amp;quot;. Anyway, this all refers to the Anschluss, and we where talking about his involvement in Hitler's path to power. And here the judgment states clearly that von Papen helped Hitler into power. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:59, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Big deal. There was no crime in it.  In fact, Hitler came to power legally.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Now, when the Tirbunal sat down in November 1945, they brought up all this conspiracy stuff about a &amp;quot;siezure of power&amp;quot;; as the trial progressed, it became fairly obvious there may have been &amp;quot;backstairs&amp;quot; dealings, but that how the sytem works, even under the US Constitution.  By the time the verdict was reached, the Judges were faced with the sad fact that Hitler abided by the rules to &amp;quot;sieze power.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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:Now many peolple have never been happy with these facts, and wish to condemn Hitler &amp;amp; everybody connected with from his mothers womb for all that followed.  The German people today speak of the &amp;quot;Nazi seizure of power&amp;quot;, obviously to take comfort themeselves in denial because the truth is he came to power Consitutional, by democratic means, and the people voted for him.  But its easier for contemporay Germans to play the role of victim along with everybody else.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Then your argument, that somehow everybody involved in his ascention was illigitimate; this really itself sounds like Nazi rhetoric. Cause the root of this arguement is that Hitler was unnapporved by the Jewish-Masonic conspiracy that controls and decides who is legitimate.  And this is the very argument you are putting forward.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:23, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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* Where do I say that the Nazis seizure of power overcame the German people? Where did I say that it was an illegitimate action? And most important where did I use Nazi rhetoric? Don't make stuff up stuff that I didn't say. Or show me where.&lt;br /&gt;
* As a German myself I can tell you that just a few Germans comfort themselves with the myth that it was an illegal power grab. The failure of Weimar is taught and discussed in great detail, including the decline of liberal democracy, the failure of democrats to work together, the anti-democratic forces on both sides of the spectrum, and also the role (and call it naivety) of von Papen and the likes when it came to Hitler. Don't make up stuff about how the end of Weimar is discussed in Germany.&lt;br /&gt;
* It was about political and moral responsibility all the time. You went on all kind of tangents, like the war tribunal, and whether von Papen was a war criminal. The question wasn't if von Papen was a War Criminal, but if he and other conservative politicians have a share in the political and also moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power.&lt;br /&gt;
* You bring up the in the Illuminati stuff without reason. If your best bet is to bring up weird conspiracies that I didn't mention, your arguments must be poor. And then on top of it you claim that I use Nazi rhetoric. &lt;br /&gt;
* Hitler came to power through legitimate means because he got help from others. And these other were conservative politicians like von Papen and Hugenberg. No need to tell you that Von Papen was Vice-chancellor, and Hugenberg Minister in Hitler first administration. &lt;br /&gt;
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You are unable to admit that the rise of Hitler was not just a socialist venture, but that there were also conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. Maybe you can answer the following question. Who bears a greater political and moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power: Carl von Ossietsky, a  very controversial socialist in the Weimar Republic, who was sentenced for treason in the 1930? Or von Papen who convinced Hindenburg to give Hitler a try? And who helped Hitler to consolidate his power, and who was Vice-Chancellor, when his government put von Ossietsky in a labor camp? The guy who got the Nobel peace price in 1935, or the guy who was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment after the war? The guy who died in 1938 from tuberculosis he got while he was forced to drain swamps, or the guy who died in 1969 of old age in his mansion? The socialist pacifist with a questionable ideology, or the conservative politician with a questionable role during the Third Reich? Not an easy question, but spare us long tangents please, just who bears more responsibility, von Ossietsky or von Papen for Hitler's rise to power? [[User:Order|Order]] 08:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:*''where did I use Nazi rhetoric? ''&lt;br /&gt;
::*In the Nazi view, the [[Treaty of Versailles]] was a Jewish conspiracy that destroyed the monarchy, dismembered Germany, and established a Constitutional Republic.  This &amp;quot;Jewish Conspiracy&amp;quot;, in the Nazi's view, dictated ''who'' the administrative powers in Germany would be, and what German domestic armament policy, and foreign policy would be.  The Nazi's viewed themselves as &amp;quot;seizing power&amp;quot; from this Jewish-Illuminati International bankers conspiracy when Hitler was appointed Chancellor in 1933.  However, the Nazi's were not strong enough to win the Chancellorship and Parliamentary elections, so it was done in a coalition with other parties, some democratic.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::In the Nazi view, there was a second &amp;quot;seizure of power&amp;quot; after the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; from the International &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot; that &amp;quot;dictated&amp;quot; who would govern Germany; power was seized away from the Nazi's coalition partners when parliamentary rule was ended.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::When the Nuremberg Tribunal met, Prosecutors brought forward some of the Nazi's own rhetoric, how they had &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; in violation of both International conventions under Versailles, and the Weimar Constitution.  Charges of &amp;quot;conspiracy&amp;quot; were leveled, that all involved had violated International conventions under Versailles, and the Weimar Constitution in the Nazi's assent to power in 1933.  The Judges, including Soviet Judges, soon realized, that to render this verdict would be to rubber stamp the validity of Nazi propaganda.  That to adjudicate the Nazi regime as illegitimate from day one would be to validate the Nazi claim that foreigners and International agreements such as Versailles were indeed the controlling instruments that stripped Germany of its sovereignty.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Where do I say any that the Nazi seizes the power from an international conspiracy? Where? Where did I bring up the Illuminati? You say that I use Nazi rhetoric, while I didn't say any of those things. Show me otherwise. This is a challenge.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::To the contrary, I was always pointing to his coalition partners. Do not make up stuff that I never said. Otherwise, show me.[[User:Order|Order]] 19:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::You might as well blame a constitutional democracy for Hilter's rise, because that is exactly what happened.  The system was designed for coalition governments in the absence of an absolute majortiy.  Bottomline again, the coalition parnters were not Nazi's; if they were Nazi's they would have quit thier minortiy parties and joined the Nazi party.  But that did not happen.  Instead, once Hitler became Chancellor, he ignored and violated thier rights, too.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::So, did I say otherwise? After the Hitler came to power, some politicians from conservative did actually join the NSDAP. Anyway, bottomline is indeed that his coalition partners weren't Nazi's, but conservative politicians like von Papen. As I said from the beginning of this thread. {{unsigned|Order}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:*''why should we care what Wikipedia says.''&lt;br /&gt;
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::*A few years ago I commented in Wikipedia on the large volume of material being brought over from the German Wiki that persistently referred to the &amp;quot;Nazi seizure of power.&amp;quot;  The Nazi's in fact did not seize power in January 1933, they came to power under provisions of the legitimate Weimar Constitution.  The Nazi's ''did'' seize power from their democratic coalition partners when they ended parliamentary rule.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Contemporary Germans have maintained the that they, too, were victims; that the Nazis came to power illegitimately, when in fact they were supported at the ballot box by many Germans.  They were victimized later, when parliamentary rule ended, and the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; from their coalition partners ''after'' January 1933.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The bottomline, while maintaining the fiction that the Nazi's &amp;quot;seized power&amp;quot; in January 1933 is comforting to absolve complicity among democratic forces that were coalition partners, it really is nothing more than the Nazi POV.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 15:26, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Did I say any of this? Didn't I say the opposite. I was permanently pointing to Hitlers coalition partners. Don't make stuff up or show me otherwise. Or is this supposed to be proof that Germans at large think that the Hitler came to power illegally, by pointing to an experience you had on Wikipedia a few years ago. If you trust Wikipedia that much, go to the German version of Wikipedia, and what they say about Machtergreifung. I will be edited mostly by German editors, and I doubt that it says that it was an illegal act to get power from back an international conspiracy. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Your point is along the lines that, &amp;quot;Why did von Papen, et al, form a coalition government ''with'' the Nazis, ''against'' the Comintern apparat?&amp;quot;  This question is easy to answer.  While the murderous nature of the Comintern organizations against ''thier'' imaginary enemies was known in 1933, no one knew the Nazis would adopt and apply Bolshevik methods against the Nazis imaginary enemies to the extent that they did after 1933.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 20:32, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Where did I say that von Papen should have sided with the Comintern. Where? It is generally agreed that at the beginning of 1933 there was no need to form a coalition government with the Nazis. The Nazi had just lost their first state elections, and the economy was picking up. Von Papen had to convince Hindenburg. Sure, von Papen probably didn't have the foresight that it would almost cost his life in the Night of Long Knives, nor that it would lead to a total war. But he rather than trying to fix the democracy, he was actively pushing to get somebody into power, who was fairly open about his aims to abolish democracy. Fascism was known, and von Papen knew it too.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::So von Papen used democratic means to destroy democracy?  I think you may be mischaracterizing von Papen's political views.  Von Papen was an anti-Communist.  Not all anit-Communists are fascists, however in this instance a coalition between some democratic elements was made with fascists to prevent Soviet-backed Comintern subversion.  You repeatedly speak of &amp;quot;bares responsibiltiy;&amp;quot; the Weimar Constitution itself bares responsibility, it did precisely what it was designed to do.  Hitler was speaking of rebuilding the German military; industrialists &amp;amp; the miltiary liked this idea.  That does not make them racists or advocates of genocide.  That makes them partners in a coalition government with Nazis, nothing more and nothing less.  When the Nazis began diabusing ''thier'' rights, some joined the nationalist movement, some did not.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::::In sum, once again, the Tribunal rendered its verdict, not just regarding von Papen, but '''also''' regarding the whole question as to conspiracy &amp;amp; morality around the Nazis and Hitler's rise to power.  What it really does look like is, other than von Papen being Catholic, what crime or moral offense is he guilty of?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::I didn't blame him for being catholic (see below). And the tribunal said in its verdict that Von Papen bears responsibility for the events in that got Hitler into power. The tribunal acquitted Von Papen for other charges. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:42, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::::This brings me back to the question:  Who bears more responsibility for the getting Hitler into power: von Papen or Ossietsky? [[User:Order|Order]] 21:44, 27 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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:The question that I posed remains unanswered. Who, in your opinion Rob, has bears more responsibility for Hitler's rise to power. Von Ossietsky or Von Papen. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:20, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Since you keep referring to things I never said, a brief list of thing we did agree on, and a list of things I actually did say.&lt;br /&gt;
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First, we agree that von Papen was&lt;br /&gt;
* a catholic&lt;br /&gt;
* conservative&lt;br /&gt;
* anti-communist&lt;br /&gt;
* member of the Zentrum Party&lt;br /&gt;
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I don't blame him for any of this. If I'd be living in the 1930s it would probably apply to me, since all of my 4 grandparents were catholic, conservative, anti-communist voters of the Zentrum party. There is no blame in that.&lt;br /&gt;
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However, von Papen has responisbility for his deeds. In particular.&lt;br /&gt;
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* Von Papen revoked as Chancellor in June 1932 the ban on SA and SS. &lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was actively pursuing the end of the Schleicher administration in January 1933.  &lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen then gathered support to get Hindenburg to appoint Hitler chancellor in a coalition government.&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was vice-chancellor in Hitler's government.&lt;br /&gt;
* Von Papen was leading the political alliance of national conservative parties in the March 1933 election, which provided Hitler the remaining seats to get a majority in parliament.&lt;br /&gt;
He shares political responsibility for this. We are not talking a criminal charges, but about political responsibility. For the rise and consolidation of Hitlers power, up to the Empowerment laws, or if you like even up to the Night of the Long Knives, when Hitler got von Papen to resign as vice-chancellor. That he wasn't found guilty of war crimes is another issue altogether. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:25, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Where is there a crime in any of this? How are free citizens exercising their rights in a constitutional democracy a moral offense? And given the alternative, for example revoking the ban on SA and SS to counter the Moscow directed murderers is something you fail to consider, let alone discuss.&lt;br /&gt;
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:There is plenty of information available to condemn the Nazi's with.  Using half truths, innuendo, and falsehoods based upon the Nazi's own falsehoods only impugns the integrity of the historical reporter, and makes all his reporting biased and suspect.  Such is the case with Wikipedia right now, and it may not be their own invention, they may actually be just parroting the lies and falsehoods they've inherited.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The point of propagating and expounding these half truths and falsehoods you actually may have articulated in this discussion; it is not to give accurate historical reporting, nor to gather experience and warning signs for future generations.  It is to twist the facts of history, such as we've seen in the Wikipedia articles, to impugn contemporary imagined political opponents, in this case &amp;quot;conservatives.&amp;quot; How is this being done? (a) refusing to admit the godless socialist nazis rose in a marxist revolution against the powers that be, in thier view, the &amp;quot;Jewish International&amp;quot; financiers who destroyed the Hapsburg, Hohenzollern, and Romanov monarchies which had kept the peace for 100 years; (b) blaming the enemies of Communism, the Church and other anti-Communists, for anti-Semitic fascist ideals and intent.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The bottomline here is, using the Nazi's own view of themselves, that they were illegitimate outsiders to the Jewish international cabal that wrote the Treaty of Versailles, illegally and by immoral means rose up and seized power from the legitimate powers that be, i.e. the &amp;quot;Jewish financiers&amp;quot; behind the Treaty of Versailles, to put a spin on history with the real intent to attack modern political opponents with, is unnecessary, and potentially very dangerous.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 10:32, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The discussion isn't about Nazi ideology, and I in particular didn't push any Nazi views that involve a Jewish conspiracy (or show me other wise), and this is irrelevant for the discussion for Von Papen, because he wasn't a Nazi in the first place. But your first paragraph is to the point, so i'll respond to that.	 &lt;br /&gt;
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* ''Where is there a crime in any of this?''. I said repeatedly that we are not talking about criminal charges.	 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''How are free citizens exercising their rights in a constitutional democracy a moral offense?'' Everybody bears responsibility for his deeds, even for the legal ones. This also applies also in politics, and there are countless example of immoral but legal behavior in politics.	 &lt;br /&gt;
* ''And given the alternative, for example revoking the ban on SA and SS to counter the Moscow directed murderers is something you fail to consider, let alone discuss.'' Von Papen was the Chancellor of Germany, and he had access to police and army. I hope that we agree that the SA and SS weren't out to enforce the law, but a fascist mob instead. Von Papen didn't use or need the SA and SS to prevent or solve violent crimes by the communist mob. He legalized it to get political backing from the NSDAP for his minority cabinet. 	 &lt;br /&gt;
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All these acts were legal, sure, but Von Papen did it for political reasons, and carries hence political responsibility for these acts. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:01, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Path to Power (Continued) ==&lt;br /&gt;
You are unable to admit that the rise of Hitler was not just a socialist venture, but that there were also conservative politicians who helped Hitler into power. Maybe you can answer the following question. Who bears a greater political and moral responsibility for Hitler's rise to power: Carl von Ossietsky, a  very controversial socialist in the Weimar Republic, who was sentenced for treason in the 1930? Or von Papen who convinced Hindenburg to give Hitler a try? And who helped Hitler to consolidate his power, and who was Vice-Chancellor, when his government put von Ossietsky in a labor camp? The guy who got the Nobel peace price in 1935, or the guy who was sentenced to 8 years imprisonment after the war? The guy who died in 1938 from tuberculosis he got while he was forced to drain swamps, or the guy who died in 1969 of old age in his mansion? The socialist pacifist with a questionable ideology, or the conservative politician with a questionable role during the Third Reich? Not an easy question, but spare us long tangents please, just who bears more responsibility, von Ossietsky or von Papen for Hitler's rise to power? [[User:Order|Order]] 08:29, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:The Tribunal examined all the questions and rendered its verdict.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 14:46, 27 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::The tribunal said that von Papen shares moral and political responsibility for getting Hitler into power. Cool. So I take it as  admission that it was not just socialism was responsible for the end of the Weimar Republic, but that conservative politicians like von Papen also bear some responsibility. The only reasonable thing to do right now would be to remove the Hayek quote, because as it is quoted it suggest otherwise. You can either do it yourself, or unlock the article and I am happy to remove it myself. [[User:Order|Order]] 00:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You are still reading this in the verdict that are not there.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 22:51, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Lets get a third person to read the verdict and see if the second paragraph says &amp;quot;Von Papen was active in 1932 and 1933 in helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor on 30th January, 1933.&amp;quot; and then to look at the end which says &amp;quot;Under the Charter von Papen can be held guilty only if he was a party to the planning of aggressive war&amp;quot; and he was found not guilty of that charge. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:07, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;lt;--&lt;br /&gt;
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Here's the paragraph condensed:&lt;br /&gt;
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:&amp;quot;The evidence leaves no doubt that von Papen's primary purpose as Minister to Austria '''was to undermine the Schuschnigg regime''' and strengthen the Austrian Nazis for the purpose of bringing about Anschluss....he '''engaged in''' both '''intrigue''' and bullying. But the Charter does not make criminal such '''offenses against political morality''', however bad these may be. Under the Charter von Papen can be held guilty only if he was a party to the planning of aggressive war.....&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
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::So, we agree that the tribunal did find him not guilty for his role in the Anschluss, since '''offenses against political morality''' do not fall under the charter. That is kind of exactly what I said. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:39, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Now, at the moment I am reading the case of [[Helen Scott]], one of several [[Comintern]] opperatives who &amp;quot;engaged in political immorality&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;intrigue&amp;quot; (haven't found any &amp;quot;bullying&amp;quot; yet).  Who was Helen Scott?  Helen Scott was one of several Comintern opperatives who, as an American citizen, was an agent of the Soviet Union ''and '''was appointed to the staff of American prosecutors at the [[Nuremberg War Crimes Tribunal]].'''''&lt;br /&gt;
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Care to collaborate on [[Helen Grace Scott Keenan]]?  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 10:37, 29 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'll think about it. But I try to stay focussed, and not get into to much at once. Thanks. [[User:Order|Order]] 23:39, 29 August 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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:You will see on the [[Talk:Munich conference]], for example, we just reviewed other material from the War Crimes Tribunal regarding Nazi infiltration and subversion of the Czech and Slovak regime; here for example, [http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/imt/tgmwc/tgmwc-02/], we have evidence of a &amp;quot;Campaign within Czechoslovakia since 1934&amp;quot;; Helen Scott was a member of an organization that was found to be controlled by a foreign government actively seeking the violent removal of the United States Government long before WWII broke out, she was a member of that same organization when she took employment with the United States Government, which was illegal.  And she was the agent of a foreign power when she worked on the staff of the American Prosecutors at Nurermberg.&lt;br /&gt;
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:So, today we have information available that was not avialable for nearly 50 years.  My point is, much of what we know about all of these events needs to be re-analyized. But first we must assemble the facts before we can do a review.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 00:56, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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----&lt;br /&gt;
:::The Tribunal did not say that.  It said von Papen was &amp;quot;active in ...helping Hitler to form the Coalition Cabinet and aided in his appointment as Chancellor,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;The Tribunal finds that von Papen is not guilty.&amp;quot;  Where in any of this is there a quesion of moral responsibiblity?&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::He was found not guilty in the conspiracy to start an aggressive war and the not guilty of a conspiracy to undermine the Austrian government. Did I say otherwise? Can you for once show me where I say either of these. But the judgment also says that he was morally responsible for the Anschluss and the beginnings of the regime, but that couldn't try him for that because it didn't fall under the charter of the tribunal. Please read the judgment carefully. Just because he was acquitted from charges for starting the war, doesn't mean that they acquitted him from blame for his part in Hitler's first administration. To the contrary, the judgment '''explicitly''' states that he shares responsibility for that. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::The Nazi's, true to their Socialists roots, viewed themselves in the true Socialist sense of rising up against the powers that be, i.e. in thier view rising up against the Jewish Internaitional bankers conspiracy that killed three monarchies (Hapsburg, Hohenzollern, and Romonov), dismembered Germany, and saddled theme with a war debt.  Marx said the common scum peons, i.e. people like the low life Nazi's would seize power in a Revolution.  In thier view they did just this, they seized power for the Jewish International bankers.  Now to allege then in 1933, at the time of Nuremberg in 1945, or today, that the Nazi &amp;quot;seizure of power&amp;quot; was illigitimate in any sense, is to agree with the Nazi's, because that is exactly how they viewed themselves. They viewed themselves as a rogue regime against &amp;quot;the International Jewish conspiracy.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 01:19, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::So, what? Where did I say that the seizure of power was illegitimate? Where? Tell me? You are barking up the wrong tree. We are discussing von Papen, and the events that brought about end of the Weimar Republic. It seems that you are unable to stick to the topic, and the topic is who helped Hitler into power. Marx, the conspiracy charges, the Illuminati, the Anschluss, Jewish International bankers, all probably very interesting, but besides the point. [[User:Order|Order]] 03:05, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==new img==&lt;br /&gt;
Actually that man in the new img may not be Hitler.  Hitler, as Stalin &amp;amp; Saddam Hussein likewise, were all known to use doubles for some public appearances, the man in that photo may actually be one of Hitler's doubles.  [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 14:54, 6 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== The evolution of the Hitler article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It used to be a fairly factual article. Now it turns into something like an opinion piece, pointing to everybody CP disagrees with as causes for Hitler. This isn't encyclopedic anymore, and the really bad thing about it is, that one of the main message of the Third Reich gets lost, namely that fairly decent people from all backgrounds can under the influence of a bad ideology, commit heinous crimes. Peace be upon you. [[User:Order|Order]] 19:54, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The entire evolution bit is a discussion of the ideology of &amp;quot;eugenics&amp;quot; an &amp;quot;race hygiene&amp;quot;. It is not really at its right spot. All other paragraph refer to actual events. The discussion of evolution should go into a discussion section, or a separate article, probably under the header &amp;quot;Eugenics&amp;quot;. [[User:Order|Order]] 22:10, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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**Know whats funny this is the first conservative i have seen on this wiki that has not been glorified. [[User:Cal05000|Cal05000]] 18:08, 5 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler's wax effigy ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It might interest the primary editors of this article to note that the wax effigy of Adolf Hitler, in a glass case built into a wall, guards the entrance to the Chamber of Horrors at Madame Tussaud's Wax Works in [[London]], [[England]]. Or at least it did in 1988 when I toured London with my family.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:TerryH|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 21:15, 20 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Again, probably not releveant to the article, but there was an amusing story run in the press some time ago suggesting that the dummies hair was actually growing! Quite probably nonsense, but I thought it might interest posters! [[User:Josephx|Josephx]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Improved the article==&lt;br /&gt;
Before anyone gets in a dither, I improved the article.  There was just nothing in it pertaining to even the smallest biography of this individual that could be considered useful before.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:17, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What I did not touch upon, and it could be included in future edits, were these:&lt;br /&gt;
*Accusastions of, or toleration for, homosexuality in his early years prior to the Night of the Long Knives.  It was known that Hitler used people to further his own ends.&lt;br /&gt;
*Geli Raubal, and implications she may have had a forced affair with Hitler that led to her suicide.&lt;br /&gt;
*Detailed info regarding his childhood&lt;br /&gt;
And it could use some good quotes.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:33, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== First Sentence ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Since this is locked, I'd just like to point out that it's not actually a sentence. ;)[[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:18, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:It's more or less a title...and I didn't know it was locked!  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:26, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::No, the actual first sentence is missing a verb.  Actually the whole first paragraph could use some clean up. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:29, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You could do it...just keep in mind that it's an introductory paragraph.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:34, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Thanks, I did. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:34, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Need to point out something: Hitler was directly responsible for the outbreak of World War II in Europe, and that has to be emphasized.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 18:35, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
True, but the introductory paragraph suggests that WWII was a response to the Holocaust. It remains uncertain to this day what was and wasn't known about the attrocities being perpetrated against the Jews et al, but it was the need to counter German Imperialism that led to countries becoming involved in the war, not, as much as we would like to believe, a moral stance against the shoah. [[User:Josephx|Josephx]] 12:31, 26 September 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler and against various christian groups ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hitler and against various christian groups at: http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v24/i3/nazi.asp&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 05:57, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== we need to give the various evidences and deal with them in a scholarly manner ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need to give the cite evidences put forth for Hitler not being a Christian and Hitler being a Christian and give reasoanble scholars commentary on them.  For example, the scholarly debate regarding Hitler's Table Talk, Hitler and the occult, Hitler and paganism, Mein Kempf references to God and Jesus Christ.  I don't believe there is a strong case for Hitler being a Christian and since many atheists trot this out I think there should be a scholarly and reasonable material on this matter at Conservapedia.[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 06:04, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Is there some scholarly reason for turning this article about Hitler into one primarily about his religious beliefs, running on forever?  Do you not know how to be concise? Might I suggest a new article for you: &amp;quot;Religious Beliefs of Dictators Down Through the Ages&amp;quot;.  I believe you continue to think this is a Bible wiki. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#1E90FF&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;DC143C&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:22, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Hitler time and again cites Darwin &amp;amp; the TOE as the reason why he's not a Christian.  And Hitler summed up Christianity in one word, &amp;quot;stupid.&amp;quot;  [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 12:36, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Yes.  That does not answer my question.  This is not a Bible Wiki, so what you mentioned would be worthy one paragraph.  Without &amp;quot;C&amp;quot; quotes.  --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#1E90FF&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;DC143C&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:02, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Didn't the Nazis burn Darwin's books? Why would Hitler endorse the views of a man whose books he destroyed? '''&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#FFCC00&amp;quot;&amp;gt;Scorp&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#773300&amp;quot;&amp;gt;ion&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;'''&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Scorpion|Vote for Pedro]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:15, 19 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I think that it would be fair to say that Hitler believed in a stripped-down, brutal version of Darwinism that was far from being close to Darwin's own beliefs. It is not unsurprising that Hitler should take something and twist it to fit his own abhorrent standards. [[User:Darkmind1970|Darkmind1970]] 10:38, 4 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Hitler was a Vegetarian ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
My question is why some people fail to mention Hitler was a Vegetarian and an Anti-Hunting nut.&lt;br /&gt;
:Cause it's not really relevant to anything?[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 15:24, 7 June 2008 (EDT) also, learn what words get capilalized in English. And sign your posts.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 15:24, 7 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Hitler, Creationism, Eugenics, and Evolution ==&lt;br /&gt;
(re posted from earlier)&lt;br /&gt;
The page seems to imply that when Hitler spoke of &amp;quot;favored races&amp;quot; he was somehow invoking evolutionary thought. Evolution theory does not place worth or lack thereof on certain genetic traits, as Hitler did. Are we trying to suggest that racism did not exist before Darwin published his writings? Let us not forget the many places in Mein Kampf where Hitler visualizes his eugenics plan as the fulfillment of '''God''''s Divine Will. And what of the following gems:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties. - '''Adolf Hitler''', ''Mein Kampf'', vol. ii, ch. x&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;From where do we get the right to believe, that from the very beginning Man was not what he is today? Looking at Nature tells us, that in the realm of plants and animals changes and developments happen. But nowhere inside a kind shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today. - '''Adolf Hitler''', Hitler's Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
It is not only erroneous to call Hitler an evolutionist, it is, quite frankly, insulting--to suggest a causal connection between scientific theory and genocide. As a secular conservative, I am beginning to wonder: Is Conservapedia really about promoting conservative values (financial responsibility, economic security, etc.) or about trouncing on people's beliefs? Shouldn't conservatives of all beliefs be working together instead of dividing each other in this ridiculous way?&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Stirlatez|Stirlatez]] 22:37, 29 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:If anyone is being divisive, it is you. Instead of trawling around for quotations to rip out of context, try making more substantive contributions to this site. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 13:15, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The Nazi's also banned &amp;quot;6. Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel).&amp;quot; http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhibits/burnedbooks/documents.htm --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 13:09, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Note the qualifier. Social Darwinism does not come into that. And learn how to use apostrophes. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 13:15, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: That is absolutely correct, I did use an apostrophe wrong; I rewrote the sentence and the apostrophe became obsolete. I think that social Dawinism comes in to that to the entire extent that Hitiler's philosophy is based on Darwinian evolution, in that it doesn't at all. Bottom line The Nazi's didn't believe and or like the works of Darwin. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 16:18, 10 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Evolution works with environmental selection and a [b]diversity of gens[/b], something that hitler definitely did not emphasize, this article undermines the credibility of the whole encyclopedia: {{unsigned|DeSouza}}&lt;br /&gt;
::You're not credible, Hitler apologist. You must discount the whole Nazi ideology to believe Hitler and Darwin were not connected in any way.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 16:01, 19 June 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The last paragraph about Richard Dawkins words “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question&amp;quot; is taken totally out of context and turned upside down. Here is the full context that should be given:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When asked a question: “As we speak of this shifting zeitgeist, how are we to determine who’s right? If we do not acknowledge some sort of external [standard], what is to prevent us from saying that the Muslim [extremists] aren’t right?”, his response was: “What’s to prevent us from saying Hitler wasn’t right? I mean, that is a genuinely difficult question. But whatever [defines morality], it’s not the Bible. If it was, we’d be stoning people for breaking the Sabbath.”&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Racism and anti-semitism existed long before Darwin's books. One only has to look at slavery in the 1700s, the First Crusade, and the Jewish expulsions from England and Spain. [[User:OneTruth]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== Naziism and Homosexuality ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Wasn't Rohm (the leader of the SA) a Homosexual?----[[User:PhilipV|PhilipV]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:PhilipV|'' I Support our Troops!'']]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 07:23, 25 December 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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I doubt it. If he was, he kept it a secret, because homosexuals were one of the groups targeted in the holocaust. - [[OneTruth]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==Shouldn't Hitler be listed under liberal==&lt;br /&gt;
Logically it only makes sense. hitler was a Nazi, or national socialist. socialism is a liberal ideology. therefor it is resonible to assume that hitler was a liberal. not to mention the fact that he had numerous traits in common with liberals--[[User:SayidR|SayidR]] 19:52, 25 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Proof He's An Atheist ==&lt;br /&gt;
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What proof is there that he is an atheist? In Mein Kampf, he actually seems to be a believer. [http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhitlernazigermany/tp/AdolfHitlerFaithGod.htm] [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 13:04, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Counterexamples_to_Evolution&amp;diff=799382</id>
		<title>Talk:Counterexamples to Evolution</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Counterexamples_to_Evolution&amp;diff=799382"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T16:49:00Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Missing Fossil #1 */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[Talk:Counterexamples_to_Evolution/archive1|Archive 1]]&lt;br /&gt;
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== My plans for this article ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I plan on organizing this article into groups, so there would be a group for the statistical counterexamples, and a group for the counterexamples that rely on functions that do not come from the evolutionary mechanisms, or maladaptive characteristics. I am open to suggestions. I also archived the page as it was when I came here. I would also like someone to rewrite the end of the intro paragraph, it doesn't make much sense how it was and only makes a little more how I wrote it. Thanks' --[[User:SamF|SamF]] 22:27, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:First of all, God bless you for archiving and clearing up this page!  It makes the discussion better.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I'm all for better organization of the entry, but without any dilution.  So please have at it!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:35, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
I've categorized, and reworded one poorly worded point. I'll look for resources over the weekend and on Monday morning I should be able to life most of the citation needed tags. Some of these seem like they would be impossible to prove to me. Having looked at consciousness as a subject I feel pretty confident in saying that it is a mystery no matter what, and that it should probably be left off of this list, as a for instance. --[[User:SamF|SamF]] 18:06, 22 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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{{quotebox|Consciousness - No animal displays self-awareness (such as clothing), morality, tool-making, or self-sacrifice to the same extent that man does. It is unclear how a random mutation could have arisen which accounts for humanity's significantly higher cognitive ability.&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[Citation Needed]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
:What do you mean by &amp;quot;it is a mystery no matter what&amp;quot;?  It seems to me that what the article's saying is precisely that it ''is'' a mystery - so no natural process could have created it; since atheistic evolution allows only natural processes, but consciousness exists, atheistic evolution can't be all there is. --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 18:20, 22 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::It is just as unclear how a supernatural power might generate consciousness. It is a whole big can of worms and thousands of people in philosophy and neuroscience are working on it. The Evolutionary psychology people have a pretty neat little story about how something that manifests itself exactly like consciousness is beneficial and might come about, I think that if we ever do crack the consciousness puzzle then they will swoop in and claim to have an answer. I think that the bit in that counterexample about consciousness can be axed just fine and the rest left standing. Consciousness is its own big philosophical question, and I have serious doubts as to how accurately an argument about it can be contained in one paragraph, let alone one line. --[[User:SamF|SamF]] 18:28, 22 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Um, a miracle?  That's the whole point about miracles:  we don't understand how God did them.  Of course it's &amp;quot;unclear.&amp;quot;  If you want to say that naturalistic scientists are trying to figure out how evolution might bring consciousness about, that's fine with me, as long as it's clear they haven't found it yet. --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 18:46, 22 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== No other animal exhibits religion ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Are we really sure that humans are the only organisms with religious beliefs? Is there a scientifc reason why [[wolf|wolves]] howl to the moon (or perhaps it's actually to God, who created them)? Organization, communication skills, family traditions, common sense, etc are religious traits; religion brings order and meaning to society (which probably explains why idiocy and corruption is invading human society). Sounds like something a liberal would argue: ''If God exists, why are humans the only ones that believe in him'', and my rebuttal is always ''How do we 'know' that animals don't believe in God? Have you asked one?'' [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 16:01, 17 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Your point reflects open-mindedness and a willingness to rely on logic rather than consensus.  But note that in sharp contrast with humans, animals do not engage in any activities suggestive of prayer.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:00, 17 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't know much about animal psychology, but I ''really'' like the poetic notion of wolves howling at the moon being prayer.  That's just...  beautiful.  [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 23:05, 17 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well, animals do not speak English, so of course we're not going to witness animal prayer. Also, dogs howl over their owners bodies when they witness the passing of their owners, but rather than argue like a [[liberal style|whiny liberal]], I'm going to walk away from this one. [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 08:04, 18 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Some of these are rather incomplete ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For instance 1.6.1 {{cquote|The fact that new discoveries, such as Raptorex, routinely call into question key dogmas of evolutionism and require the &amp;quot;immutable&amp;quot; laws of evolution to be reassessed. By contrast, creationism has prevailed in the face of scientific discoveries for six thousand years.}}&lt;br /&gt;
Not only is the second half a parodist's dig on creationism &amp;quot;creationism has prevailed ''in the '''face''' of'' scientific discoveries&amp;quot; the first half doesn't really explain why raptorex is supposed to be parodoxiacal. It's an interesting species, but there is nothing apparent (especially not in the sentence) that counters evolution, the adaptations of ''T. rex'' and Raptorex are related to balance, specifically how you get the biggest head on the smallest, fastest, body. If no one steps forward to expand this in the next two weeks I'm going to trim it from the list. I think two weeks is a fair timeline. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 00:26, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I cut some more out, I would suggest cutting the statistical argument out, it's hard to do with out making up random numbers. Pulling wheat from chaff is going to take some work, but I suspect you will be pleased in the end. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 01:03, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Do not remove without discussion.  Do not censor material from the article. [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 01:55, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I did not censor anything, I did some editing.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.2.6 is parody, Jim put it in there to mock Andy after their discussion ended in Andy saying that beauty was intrinsic, I clarified Andy's counterexample per his feelings on the subject &lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.3.2 is about ploidy, the last time it was removed there was an edit comment about durum wheat, did anyone ever bother to look it up? Durum wheat is descended from Emmer wheat, Duram wheat is tetraploid and Emmer wheat is diploid. That is conclusive proof that it is not impossible. Hence it is probably parody.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.3.4 actually misreports the selfish gene&lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.2.7 we know how cicadas manage to wait , we know that those cicadas that come out a year early or a year late die with out mating typically. we can move mating windows in lab animal populations. So we have a means a motive and an opportunity, more parody.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.5.6 You cannot demonstrate a lack of fossils until you dig up all the fossil bearing strata on earth, which is a very big task (digging out the trilobites alone would leave the globe covered in a foot thick layer of fossils) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm just trying to clean up this article a bit, it seems to be a place were parody and counterexample alike are piled in together and they are never checked. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 14:19, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You were warned not to touch this article, Brendan, then you did again. [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 14:29, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==  Lack of mechanism ==&lt;br /&gt;
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The first point in this section is:&lt;br /&gt;
*Animals flee to high ground before a deadly tsunami hits their shoreline, defying any plausible materialistic explanation.&lt;br /&gt;
(There follows a reference which does not state that there is no materialistic explanation - in fact, it suggests one.)  But I'm more interested in the consequences of there being no materialistic explanation.   Did God personally guide the animals to escape? Were the warned by angels? If God or the angels warned the animals - why didn't they warn the human beings?--[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 15:10, 12 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Problems I see with this page ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 Example one is not true, we have many different races and genetic diversity can be ANY difference in genes (Your genes are not the EXACT SAME as your mother/father's, that is genetic diversity)&lt;br /&gt;
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2 Example number three is pointless. Not all genes affect multiple traits, and thus evolution can happen to some without affecting a lot of traits. Furthermore, a mutation can happen to a gene that controls multiple traits and benefit one trait, but that doesn't mean that it will negatively affect the other traits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under Lack of Mechanism:&lt;br /&gt;
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1 Example two is basically a bunch of buzz words lined up in a row.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 Example five Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. All other animals might think that fall foliage looks terrible, and humans may simply have a mass delusion about it. All in all it feels like a pointless cop-out.&lt;br /&gt;
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3 Example twelve is a flat out lie. SOME animals do have self awareness. Here is just one example I found after mere seconds of looking. http://earthtrust.org/delbook.html&lt;br /&gt;
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4 Example sixteen can be explained by slowly getting more and more of this chemical into their blood stream. A better explanation is that a minuscule bit of anti-freeze won't kill you, you grow a little resistance to it, pass it on, get more anti-freeze and more resistance, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under Maladaption:&lt;br /&gt;
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1 Example three could be the process of evolution unfinished. You could be looking at something that is not quite complete, but will be someday.&lt;br /&gt;
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Under Wrong prediction&lt;br /&gt;
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1 Example one is simple if you know about evolution: There was creature that came after the gorilla, but before the chimp, a small group of these creatures lost these dna blocks, and another group did not. One group evolved into chimps, one into humans.&lt;br /&gt;
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2 Example three: Much of it has been shown to be useful, but much of it still has no recognized purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
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3 Example five: Take one second out of your day and google &amp;quot;Wisdom teeth&amp;quot;. We no longer need them, thus most people don't have them (a replacement example could be &amp;quot;Why do some people still have wisdom teeth?&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
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Under Missing Fossils: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 example one is a lie: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/whaleevolution.gif&lt;br /&gt;
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2 Example four is obvious because single celled organisms are so small that it is VERY difficult to find a fossil of one out in the wild.&lt;br /&gt;
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Under Irreducible Complexity: (Note that I won't spend much time here as I know I have a HORRIBLE bias against Irreducible Complexity and I feel that I will just try to argue away all points)&lt;br /&gt;
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1 Example three: Wings can help something jump farther (Even a small bit helps). Also just because there is no perceived benefit does not mean that something is a disadvantage. &lt;br /&gt;
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And those are the only MAJOR problems I have with it. I see no problem in arguing against evolution (all things should be argued against in my opinion), but we need to stick to the facts, unlike our liberal counterparts...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Explain the seed of a maple tree then.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 22:54, 6 May 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While I don't see the relation to my edit and a maple seed... I assume you are talking about how can something so small become so big? Simple: A maple seed contains DNA. A good analogy for what DNA does is this: There is this thing called RNA, and it is like a construction worker. Now RNA &amp;quot;reads&amp;quot; DNA, which are like a buildings blueprints. Then it goes and lays down &amp;quot;Amino Acids&amp;quot; which are like concrete, beams etc. to a construction worker. Where does the body (seed in this case) get these amino acids, you may ask. Simple: It gets them from the nutrients it absorbs while in the soil. These Amino Acids go and make different structures, one example being an &amp;quot;enzyme&amp;quot; which breaks down big molecules into small molecules that the body can use. So just like these blueprints &amp;quot;become&amp;quot; turn into a tree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, obviously it is a whole lot more complicated. But I don't want to spend the hours it would take to explain enough of 9th grade and AP Biology that would fill in all the gaps. But really it isn't that hard to understand, is it? A seed absorbs a whole bunch of water, sunlight, minerals, etc. and then converts them into building blocks that it can use and energy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the whale's evolutionary ancestor is the indohyus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You have to do better than that.  A common evolutionist trick of pushing work on others for them to try to prove evolution wrong doesn't work here.  The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:21, 15 May 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Additional support ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr. Schlafly,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I looked out the window last night, I was struck by the simple, inherent beauty of the moonlight reflecting off the clouds, and in a sudden moment of clarity it occurred to me that this provides further support to your observation that evolution cannot account for objective beauty. Allow me to explain: in science, it is important for some sort of control to be employed when evaluating a claim, be it an independent group or simply a counterbalancing null hypothesis. Applying that reasoning to the current context, if something such as the beauty of autumn leaves had evolved, making it a purely materialistic biological phenomenon (what a revolting concept!), then the null hypothesis would be that such beauty would not be found in non-biological systems. The latter is disproved by the objective &lt;br /&gt;
beauty of moonlight reflecting upon clouds, which is composed entirely of non-biological objects and is therefore unexplainable by evolution. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, if the beauty of autumn leaves had not evolved, one would ''expect'' to find similar examples in a non-biological context- as indeed we do. What do you think of this insight? Is it significant enough to merit inclusion? If so, I would be happy to put it in (in a more succinct form, of course!). Thank you. [[User:AJFrederickson|AJFrederickson]] 08:17, 26 June 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Missing Fossil #1 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry to display liberal talkativeness, but I did some research on the statement that whales have no plausible evolutionary ancestor and found [http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/photogalleries/whale-pictures/ this article]. If this is true, then I propose we should remove Missing Fossil Counterexample #1. However, I do not know if Natural Geographic is slanted toward the left. Could I have some of your insight on this? -[[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 12:38, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I realize this doesn't concern me too much, but I've had [http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/03/are_liberals_atheists_more_evo.html this article] on hand for a while. It might shed some light on NG's poly views. [[User:Tzoran|Tyler Zoran]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tzoran|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:43, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::I also have the same thing from another source [http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v450/n7173/full/nature06343.html here]. I think most mainstream scientific journals lean toward the left though. [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 12:49, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Anti-life&amp;diff=799380</id>
		<title>Anti-life</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Anti-life&amp;diff=799380"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T16:40:13Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Anti-life''', a term that developed in the late 1920s, refers to the ideology that opposes the promotion and nurturing of life in one or more ways.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Examples include:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*anxiety, regret, depression and other emotions that distract from the positive side of life&lt;br /&gt;
*opposition to the availability of innovative health care, such as adult stem cell procedures&lt;br /&gt;
*obsession with population control, a characteristic of some of the super wealthy&lt;br /&gt;
*a preference for money or other material things over human life&lt;br /&gt;
*opposition to energy production even where it would extend lifespan in underdeveloped nations&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The pro-[[abortion]] movement is a subset of a broader anti-life ideology.  Few, of course, ''admit'' to being anti-life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Anti-life''' ideologies include:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*the [[homosexual agenda]], which promotes lifestyles that shorten lifespan and discourage procreation&lt;br /&gt;
*the [[feminist]] belief system, which is anti-childbearing and anti-childrearing&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Liberal Traits]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Counterexamples_to_Evolution&amp;diff=799379</id>
		<title>Talk:Counterexamples to Evolution</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Counterexamples_to_Evolution&amp;diff=799379"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T16:38:14Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Missing Fossil #1 */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Talk:Counterexamples_to_Evolution/archive1|Archive 1]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== My plans for this article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I plan on organizing this article into groups, so there would be a group for the statistical counterexamples, and a group for the counterexamples that rely on functions that do not come from the evolutionary mechanisms, or maladaptive characteristics. I am open to suggestions. I also archived the page as it was when I came here. I would also like someone to rewrite the end of the intro paragraph, it doesn't make much sense how it was and only makes a little more how I wrote it. Thanks' --[[User:SamF|SamF]] 22:27, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:First of all, God bless you for archiving and clearing up this page!  It makes the discussion better.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm all for better organization of the entry, but without any dilution.  So please have at it!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:35, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
I've categorized, and reworded one poorly worded point. I'll look for resources over the weekend and on Monday morning I should be able to life most of the citation needed tags. Some of these seem like they would be impossible to prove to me. Having looked at consciousness as a subject I feel pretty confident in saying that it is a mystery no matter what, and that it should probably be left off of this list, as a for instance. --[[User:SamF|SamF]] 18:06, 22 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{quotebox|Consciousness - No animal displays self-awareness (such as clothing), morality, tool-making, or self-sacrifice to the same extent that man does. It is unclear how a random mutation could have arisen which accounts for humanity's significantly higher cognitive ability.&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[Citation Needed]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
:What do you mean by &amp;quot;it is a mystery no matter what&amp;quot;?  It seems to me that what the article's saying is precisely that it ''is'' a mystery - so no natural process could have created it; since atheistic evolution allows only natural processes, but consciousness exists, atheistic evolution can't be all there is. --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 18:20, 22 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::It is just as unclear how a supernatural power might generate consciousness. It is a whole big can of worms and thousands of people in philosophy and neuroscience are working on it. The Evolutionary psychology people have a pretty neat little story about how something that manifests itself exactly like consciousness is beneficial and might come about, I think that if we ever do crack the consciousness puzzle then they will swoop in and claim to have an answer. I think that the bit in that counterexample about consciousness can be axed just fine and the rest left standing. Consciousness is its own big philosophical question, and I have serious doubts as to how accurately an argument about it can be contained in one paragraph, let alone one line. --[[User:SamF|SamF]] 18:28, 22 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Um, a miracle?  That's the whole point about miracles:  we don't understand how God did them.  Of course it's &amp;quot;unclear.&amp;quot;  If you want to say that naturalistic scientists are trying to figure out how evolution might bring consciousness about, that's fine with me, as long as it's clear they haven't found it yet. --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 18:46, 22 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== No other animal exhibits religion ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are we really sure that humans are the only organisms with religious beliefs? Is there a scientifc reason why [[wolf|wolves]] howl to the moon (or perhaps it's actually to God, who created them)? Organization, communication skills, family traditions, common sense, etc are religious traits; religion brings order and meaning to society (which probably explains why idiocy and corruption is invading human society). Sounds like something a liberal would argue: ''If God exists, why are humans the only ones that believe in him'', and my rebuttal is always ''How do we 'know' that animals don't believe in God? Have you asked one?'' [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 16:01, 17 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Your point reflects open-mindedness and a willingness to rely on logic rather than consensus.  But note that in sharp contrast with humans, animals do not engage in any activities suggestive of prayer.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:00, 17 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::I don't know much about animal psychology, but I ''really'' like the poetic notion of wolves howling at the moon being prayer.  That's just...  beautiful.  [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 23:05, 17 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Well, animals do not speak English, so of course we're not going to witness animal prayer. Also, dogs howl over their owners bodies when they witness the passing of their owners, but rather than argue like a [[liberal style|whiny liberal]], I'm going to walk away from this one. [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 08:04, 18 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Some of these are rather incomplete ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For instance 1.6.1 {{cquote|The fact that new discoveries, such as Raptorex, routinely call into question key dogmas of evolutionism and require the &amp;quot;immutable&amp;quot; laws of evolution to be reassessed. By contrast, creationism has prevailed in the face of scientific discoveries for six thousand years.}}&lt;br /&gt;
Not only is the second half a parodist's dig on creationism &amp;quot;creationism has prevailed ''in the '''face''' of'' scientific discoveries&amp;quot; the first half doesn't really explain why raptorex is supposed to be parodoxiacal. It's an interesting species, but there is nothing apparent (especially not in the sentence) that counters evolution, the adaptations of ''T. rex'' and Raptorex are related to balance, specifically how you get the biggest head on the smallest, fastest, body. If no one steps forward to expand this in the next two weeks I'm going to trim it from the list. I think two weeks is a fair timeline. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 00:26, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I cut some more out, I would suggest cutting the statistical argument out, it's hard to do with out making up random numbers. Pulling wheat from chaff is going to take some work, but I suspect you will be pleased in the end. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 01:03, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Do not remove without discussion.  Do not censor material from the article. [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 01:55, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::I did not censor anything, I did some editing.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.2.6 is parody, Jim put it in there to mock Andy after their discussion ended in Andy saying that beauty was intrinsic, I clarified Andy's counterexample per his feelings on the subject &lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.3.2 is about ploidy, the last time it was removed there was an edit comment about durum wheat, did anyone ever bother to look it up? Durum wheat is descended from Emmer wheat, Duram wheat is tetraploid and Emmer wheat is diploid. That is conclusive proof that it is not impossible. Hence it is probably parody.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.3.4 actually misreports the selfish gene&lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.2.7 we know how cicadas manage to wait , we know that those cicadas that come out a year early or a year late die with out mating typically. we can move mating windows in lab animal populations. So we have a means a motive and an opportunity, more parody.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* 1.5.6 You cannot demonstrate a lack of fossils until you dig up all the fossil bearing strata on earth, which is a very big task (digging out the trilobites alone would leave the globe covered in a foot thick layer of fossils) Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.&lt;br /&gt;
:::I'm just trying to clean up this article a bit, it seems to be a place were parody and counterexample alike are piled in together and they are never checked. --[[User:Brendanw|Brendanw]] 14:19, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You were warned not to touch this article, Brendan, then you did again. [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 14:29, 11 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==  Lack of mechanism ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first point in this section is:&lt;br /&gt;
*Animals flee to high ground before a deadly tsunami hits their shoreline, defying any plausible materialistic explanation.&lt;br /&gt;
(There follows a reference which does not state that there is no materialistic explanation - in fact, it suggests one.)  But I'm more interested in the consequences of there being no materialistic explanation.   Did God personally guide the animals to escape? Were the warned by angels? If God or the angels warned the animals - why didn't they warn the human beings?--[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 15:10, 12 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Problems I see with this page ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 Example one is not true, we have many different races and genetic diversity can be ANY difference in genes (Your genes are not the EXACT SAME as your mother/father's, that is genetic diversity)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 Example number three is pointless. Not all genes affect multiple traits, and thus evolution can happen to some without affecting a lot of traits. Furthermore, a mutation can happen to a gene that controls multiple traits and benefit one trait, but that doesn't mean that it will negatively affect the other traits.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under Lack of Mechanism:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 Example two is basically a bunch of buzz words lined up in a row.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 Example five Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. All other animals might think that fall foliage looks terrible, and humans may simply have a mass delusion about it. All in all it feels like a pointless cop-out.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3 Example twelve is a flat out lie. SOME animals do have self awareness. Here is just one example I found after mere seconds of looking. http://earthtrust.org/delbook.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4 Example sixteen can be explained by slowly getting more and more of this chemical into their blood stream. A better explanation is that a minuscule bit of anti-freeze won't kill you, you grow a little resistance to it, pass it on, get more anti-freeze and more resistance, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under Maladaption:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 Example three could be the process of evolution unfinished. You could be looking at something that is not quite complete, but will be someday.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under Wrong prediction&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 Example one is simple if you know about evolution: There was creature that came after the gorilla, but before the chimp, a small group of these creatures lost these dna blocks, and another group did not. One group evolved into chimps, one into humans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 Example three: Much of it has been shown to be useful, but much of it still has no recognized purpose.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3 Example five: Take one second out of your day and google &amp;quot;Wisdom teeth&amp;quot;. We no longer need them, thus most people don't have them (a replacement example could be &amp;quot;Why do some people still have wisdom teeth?&amp;quot;)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under Missing Fossils: &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 example one is a lie: http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/whaleevolution.gif&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 Example four is obvious because single celled organisms are so small that it is VERY difficult to find a fossil of one out in the wild.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Under Irreducible Complexity: (Note that I won't spend much time here as I know I have a HORRIBLE bias against Irreducible Complexity and I feel that I will just try to argue away all points)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1 Example three: Wings can help something jump farther (Even a small bit helps). Also just because there is no perceived benefit does not mean that something is a disadvantage. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
And those are the only MAJOR problems I have with it. I see no problem in arguing against evolution (all things should be argued against in my opinion), but we need to stick to the facts, unlike our liberal counterparts...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Explain the seed of a maple tree then.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 22:54, 6 May 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While I don't see the relation to my edit and a maple seed... I assume you are talking about how can something so small become so big? Simple: A maple seed contains DNA. A good analogy for what DNA does is this: There is this thing called RNA, and it is like a construction worker. Now RNA &amp;quot;reads&amp;quot; DNA, which are like a buildings blueprints. Then it goes and lays down &amp;quot;Amino Acids&amp;quot; which are like concrete, beams etc. to a construction worker. Where does the body (seed in this case) get these amino acids, you may ask. Simple: It gets them from the nutrients it absorbs while in the soil. These Amino Acids go and make different structures, one example being an &amp;quot;enzyme&amp;quot; which breaks down big molecules into small molecules that the body can use. So just like these blueprints &amp;quot;become&amp;quot; turn into a tree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, obviously it is a whole lot more complicated. But I don't want to spend the hours it would take to explain enough of 9th grade and AP Biology that would fill in all the gaps. But really it isn't that hard to understand, is it? A seed absorbs a whole bunch of water, sunlight, minerals, etc. and then converts them into building blocks that it can use and energy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, the whale's evolutionary ancestor is the indohyus&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You have to do better than that.  A common evolutionist trick of pushing work on others for them to try to prove evolution wrong doesn't work here.  The burden of proof is on the person making the claim.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:21, 15 May 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Additional support ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mr. Schlafly,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As I looked out the window last night, I was struck by the simple, inherent beauty of the moonlight reflecting off the clouds, and in a sudden moment of clarity it occurred to me that this provides further support to your observation that evolution cannot account for objective beauty. Allow me to explain: in science, it is important for some sort of control to be employed when evaluating a claim, be it an independent group or simply a counterbalancing null hypothesis. Applying that reasoning to the current context, if something such as the beauty of autumn leaves had evolved, making it a purely materialistic biological phenomenon (what a revolting concept!), then the null hypothesis would be that such beauty would not be found in non-biological systems. The latter is disproved by the objective &lt;br /&gt;
beauty of moonlight reflecting upon clouds, which is composed entirely of non-biological objects and is therefore unexplainable by evolution. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, if the beauty of autumn leaves had not evolved, one would ''expect'' to find similar examples in a non-biological context- as indeed we do. What do you think of this insight? Is it significant enough to merit inclusion? If so, I would be happy to put it in (in a more succinct form, of course!). Thank you. [[User:AJFrederickson|AJFrederickson]] 08:17, 26 June 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Missing Fossil #1 ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry to display liberal talkativeness, but I did some research on the statement that whales have no plausible evolutionary ancestor and found [http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/photogalleries/whale-pictures/ this article]. If this is true, then I propose we should remove Missing Fossil Counterexample #1. However, I do not know if Natural Geographic is slanted toward the left. Could I have some of your insight on this? -[[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 12:38, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Tzoran&amp;diff=799374</id>
		<title>User talk:Tzoran</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Tzoran&amp;diff=799374"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T16:24:18Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Your welcome */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Copy Edits==&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Exaggeration_of_global_warming&amp;amp;curid=98220&amp;amp;diff=734588&amp;amp;oldid=734560&amp;amp;rcid=806642 improving the wording] of my new article. Please carry on! --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:22, 18 December 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=GNU/Linux&amp;amp;curid=8501&amp;amp;diff=734603&amp;amp;oldid=687492&amp;amp;rcid=806659 Really good copy-edits] on [[GNU/Linux]]. The article is more readable, thanks to you. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:44, 18 December 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Blackwater==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Are you okay with what I did to [[Xe Services LLC]]? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:43, 18 December 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Diego Rivera ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sorry, display is also an art. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 11:05, 15 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Italics are needed in those words because it is a &amp;quot;copy&amp;quot; from another site.   --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 11:11, 15 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Serious site ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In response to your question, Tzoran, we have fun here, but we're a serious site that tries to help people.  We teach and learn here.  Anything else is a distraction that means less learning and less assistance to others.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:04, 18 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:But what I really want to know is whether a C-coding YEC can be friends with a Java-coding OEC? ;-) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 17:34, 21 March 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::I actually code in [[Python]], [[Java]], [[C plus plus|C++]], and [[Fortran]] as well, but I haven't had the time to create userboxes for &amp;quot;This user is a &amp;lt;language&amp;gt; coder&amp;quot; yet, so I'm stuck with C (which I mostly only use for coding additional Python modules. If I need machine-level functionality for toolchains and the like, I prefer the power of C++). I do prefer [[Python]] to [[Java]] but I'll try to resist any Parthian shots of &amp;quot;Python is better!&amp;quot; [[User:Tzoran|Tyler Zoran]] 17:44, 21 March 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Arnold Schwarznegger ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Good catch on that. It really did read as if it were the first '''ever''' election in U.S. history! -- [[User:JLauttamus|Jeff W. Lauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;Discussion&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;]] 14:53, 6 April 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Congratulations ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Congratulations on your promotion!  You can now block others, and you also have expanded editing privileges.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:48, 28 June 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Flags and such==&lt;br /&gt;
Here's the &amp;quot;been to&amp;quot; display I have:&lt;br /&gt;
==Been to:==&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-bgcolor=#cccccc&lt;br /&gt;
|- valign=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|  [[Image:Flag of Germany.JPG|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of Brazil.png|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of Argentina.png|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of Greece.png|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of Canada.svg|50px]] ||[[Image:Flag of France.png|50px]] || [[Image:Flag of Panama.png|50px]] ||[[Image:Flag of Israel.png|50px]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| [[Image:Flag of Peru.svg|50px]] || [[Image:Flag of Colombia.png|50px]] ||[[Image:Flag of Mexico.png|50px]] || [[Image:Flag of Egypt.png|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of Chile.png|50px]] || [[Image:Flag of Ecuador.png|50px]] ||[[Image:Flag of Morocco.png|50px]] || [[Image:Flag of Japan.png|50px]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  [[Image:Flag of Spain.png|50px]] ||[[Image:Flag of Portugal.png|50px]] ||[[Image:Flag of Tunisia.png|50px]] ||[[Image:Italyflag.gif|50px]]||  [[Image:Flag of the Philippines.png|50px]] ||[[Image:Flag of Djibouti.jpg|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of Bahrain.jpg|50px]] ||[[Image:Flag of Venezuela.jpg|50px]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|  [[Image:Flag of the Bahamas.jpg|50px]] ||[[Image:Turkeyflag.gif|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of Gibraltar.png|50px]]||[[Image:Old Flag of Hong Kong.png|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of the British Indian Ocean Territory.png|50px]]||[[Image:Flag of the UAE.png|50px]]||&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
Trim as needed for your own display.  As to switching military services, make sure that no matter what service you choose, finish your ROTC education.  But I'm biased towards the Navy, so you better pick that!  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 13:39, 28 June 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Blocking tip ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Great blocks.  Note that, in order to permit account recreation under a different name from the same IP, '''both''' options in the block function must be unchecked.  In your two blocks this morning, your settings were probably appropriate anyway in light of the inappropriate names used.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:28, 29 June 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Why are you blocking so many accounts?  I've temporarily taken away your blocking privileges until this is discussed.  An unused account does not merit blockage.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:49, 30 June 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Nice block! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Nice block!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:06, 30 June 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Latest Block ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
T, don't worry about wrong blocks, especially if you corrected yourself. Just to let you know that blocking yourself is against our Commandments. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 12:31, 1 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Windows registry==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ready for merge. Thanks for your hard work. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:33, 1 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Re: &amp;quot;Canada Newspapers&amp;quot; category ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Whoops. Looks like I've made a glaringly obvious mistake. Didn't notice it at first - I'm quite tired at the moment, and isn't really thinking straight. You're right, that needs to be fixed. Thanks. [[User:JonB|JonB]] 12:33, 2 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Great block again! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Great block again!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:43, 3 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Superb edit ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Superb edit to [[continents]]!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:06, 6 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Thank you! [[User:Tzoran|Tyler Zoran]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tzoran|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 11:12, 6 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Blocking ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Tyler, the block of RonLar seems overzealous to me, unless I'm missing something.  We allow criticism on talk pages and I plan to respond to him.  We welcome liberals as long as they do not violate basic common-sense rules as outlined in [[Conservapedia Commandments]].  Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:17, 25 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==I'm a bird brain==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thanks for [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Cormorant&amp;amp;curid=21805&amp;amp;diff=799074&amp;amp;oldid=799072&amp;amp;rcid=880195 pointing out this] ... I had thought a cormorant was a kind of [[raisin]]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:01, 29 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'd never heard of it, but I thought I'd copy edit it as long as I was hitting random page a bunch of times. [[User:Tzoran|Tyler Zoran]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tzoran|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:17, 29 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Better keep away from that [[Special:Random|Random page]] button (unless you want the quality of our articles to go up. ;-) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:54, 29 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::You worried me there for a second! I watch the recent changes page in another tab, to check for vandalism, so all I saw at first was &amp;quot;Stop !!!&amp;quot; in the edit summary. As far as improvements go, one of these days I'll get a script going that'll fix reference errors, typos, etc. That'll be nice. Haha key words here being &amp;quot;one of these days&amp;quot; when I have the time. [[User:Tzoran|Tyler Zoran]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Tzoran|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:04, 29 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Your welcome ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
You are very welcome. Godspeed. [[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 12:24, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=S.E._Cupp&amp;diff=799358</id>
		<title>S.E. Cupp</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=S.E._Cupp&amp;diff=799358"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T15:58:21Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: Created page with ''''S.E. Cupp''' is the author of the book ''Losing Our Religion: The Liberal Media's Attack on Christianity'' which explains the mainstream media's blatant and obvious bias towar…'&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''S.E. Cupp''' is the author of the book ''Losing Our Religion: The Liberal Media's Attack on Christianity'' which explains the mainstream media's blatant and obvious bias towards [[Christianity]]. She is also one of the contributors to Politico.&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Authors]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Essay:Quantifying_Openmindedness&amp;diff=799352</id>
		<title>Talk:Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Essay:Quantifying_Openmindedness&amp;diff=799352"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T15:52:57Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: Undid liberal vandalism&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;::''If you wish to discuss whether Newtonian gravity could have a different exponent than 2, see [[Debate:What is the exponent of r in Newtonian gravity?|the debate page]].''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Not a suitable criterion ==&lt;br /&gt;
I don't think that &amp;quot;a genuine willingness to accept something as possibly being true&amp;quot; is a suitable criterion.  It doesn't take into account the difference between the following two scenarios:&lt;br /&gt;
* A person who has never considered the evidence.  For example, I would be close-minded to say that [[Noah]] could not have fitted all the animals on the ark if I didn't know how big the ark was and how many animals would have qualified.&lt;br /&gt;
* A person who has considered the available evidence and has formed a considered opinion.  For example, I would be not be close-minded to say that evolution is impossible if I had studied [[information]] theory and knew how it negated the possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
A better definition might be &amp;quot;a genuine willingness to consider the evidence before rejecting an idea&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 04:17, 7 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Excellent!  I've made the change.  God bless you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 12:31, 7 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks!  I'm glad you appreciated it.&lt;br /&gt;
:However, I believe that it now renders your examples tests invalid.  You can't test for a willingness to consider the evidence by asking someone if they accept the possibility of something.  If they've already considered the possibility and have concluded that it is impossible, they have been open minded on it, but would still &amp;quot;fail&amp;quot; the test.&lt;br /&gt;
:[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:45, 8 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: We can ask subjects a mixture of new ideas and ones they've already heard.  It can be two questions:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1.  Have you seriously considered the evidence for this idea?&lt;br /&gt;
2.  If no, then would you?&lt;br /&gt;
3.  If yes, then describe what evidence you looked at.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:02, 8 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Would saying that something is absolutely the case be just as bad as impossible that something is the case?  Are people who believe without equivocation that (say...) trickle down economics works just as close minded those who believe that without equivocation that it does not?  I would assert that there are people who are just as close minded about the possibility the examples that you gave as there are people who are close minded about the impossibility of the examples.  --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 23:08, 8 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: But look at the definition of openmindedness, &amp;quot;a genuine willingness to consider the evidence before rejecting an idea.&amp;quot;  That's the difference.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:47, 8 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: You've got the Shroud of Turin as an example. What is your stance on that? What evidence have you considered? If presented with evidence to the contrary, are you willing to change your mind?  The last two questions are potentially critical ones. This is not something that someone can eaisly say &amp;quot;your OMQ is such and such based on this test.&amp;quot; What about situations where there is not 'evidence' to be considered?  There are a multitude of social issues out there that people feel quite strongly upon with very little open mindedness on either side.  One extreme difficulty with this test is that the questions can very easily be weighted to one political view or another to make it look like the other side are a bunch of close minded fools. --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 23:59, 8 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: No, I think the three questions are simple and straightforward.  We can elaborate a bit as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Have you seriously considered the evidence for this idea?'''&lt;br /&gt;
:1a.  If no, then is that because you have never heard of it?&lt;br /&gt;
::1aa.  If if you have never heard of it, then will you seriously consider the evidence?&lt;br /&gt;
::1ab.  If you have heard of it, but have never seriously considered the evidence, then on this question you lose a point for lack of openmindedness.&lt;br /&gt;
:2b.  If yes, then how much time have you spent reviewing the evidence?  What evidence did you look at?&lt;br /&gt;
::2ba.  If less than 1 hour, then you lose a point for lack of openmindedness.&lt;br /&gt;
::2bb.  If more than 1 hour, then you gain a point for openmindedness.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(the time period may vary depending on the complexity of the topic).--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 00:15, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Now that's getting much closer to a suitable test.  I'm glad you put that last point in; before I read it, my reaction was, &amp;quot;but one hour may not always be appropriate&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:Another thought that needs developing:  There are lots of things that I won't spend the time considering, simply because I don't have the time.  But in those cases, I try not to criticise the idea because I haven't properly considered it.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 05:52, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Good point.  I'll incorporate all these concepts now.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:12, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: I have a question about your 1ab point.  If for example, someone says no, they haven't seriously considered the evidence for the Shroud of Turin, but have heard of it, how does that make them less open minded?  What if to that person the topic is just not found to be very interesting, and they prefer to spend time researching topics that are more interesting to them? --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 10:23, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: OK, in that case the follow-up question should be whether the person forms an opinion for himself about this topic without looking at the evidence.  If the answer is yes, then that is quintessential closemindedness.  I'll update the content page based on your excellent point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:26, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Something else I think you have to consider with this kind of test is that it is easy to misrepresent yourself on it.  I believe &amp;quot;openmindedness&amp;quot; to be a trait which most people would deem to be a good trait.  Therefore going into this exam, people will want the outcome to give them a more favorable score so it is heavily reliant on the test takers being 100% accurate in their responses.  Whereas with an IQ test, you are asked questions with definitive answers where you either know the answer, or you don't. --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 10:33, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Good point, but asking about specific amounts of time spent considering the evidence would seem to minimize the problem you describe.  If further precautions are warranted, then follow-up questions about when, where, what, how could be asked concerning reviewing evidence.  In fact, I'll add that now.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:52, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Colest, you've done a better job then I could've explaining why I'm dubious (but not shut-off to the idea) about this test. If it is subjective enough that a person can misrepresent himself, are we really quantifying anything with this score? That political compass thing that some CPers advertise their scores from is neat and all, but I'd never try to use the number in any meaningful way.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::If this is just a conversation starter then cool, but from the other endeavors Andy is involved in that sounds a little trivial to me. [[User:Aziraphale|Aziraphale]] 20:32, 2 July 2007 (EDT) ''&amp;lt;- pursuing the trivial...''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==  Example Questions and Topics ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I see a couple of problems with the topics section of this essay.  The first concern is a minor one.  You have, as an example, “For example, did our subject think that President Ronald Reagan's exhortation, &amp;quot;Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this [Berlin] wall!&amp;quot; was an impossibility?” But, properly, speaking, it is not a statement that can be examined as a possibility (or impossibility) , since imperatives are neither true nor false.  A better way to word this question would be, “When President Regan told Mr. Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin Wall, did you think that it was impossible for the Berlin Wall to be torn down?”  Of course, this is not an especially good measure in the present, since, most people will report that  they thought it was possible (even if they did not at the time, as people tend to misremember their past, to bring their past in line with there present reality).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The second problem I see is that the questions, as they now stand will clearly skew the results toward Conservatives being more open-minded—questions asking whether conservatives are open to liberal ideas should be included to make sure that the data is not inadvertently slanted.  For example, “Did our subject think, or still think, that his/her understanding of the Bible may be wrong?” “Did our subject think, or still think, that evolution is possible?” “Did our subject think, or still think, that human behavior could warm the global climate?” and “Did our subject think, or still think, that homosexuality could be a natural behavior?”--[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 11:26, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You rewording of the Reagan is longer, but fine.  I'll change it per your comment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I think we should add liberal-oriented questions.  But your examples do not focus on a belief in impossibility, which is the essential element here.  Perhaps you'd like to refine some liberal questions that ask about impossibility, for me to add?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:00, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I’ll take a second stab at it:&lt;br /&gt;
::“Does our subject think that it is impossible that evolution could have occurred?”&lt;br /&gt;
::“Does our subject think that it is impossible that he/she could be mistaken about the truth of the Bible?” (I rather like this one as it cuts both ways, a believer is (implicitly) being asked if he/she thinks that atheism or some other religion could possibly be true, while a non-believer is asked if he/she thinks Christianity could be true.)&lt;br /&gt;
::“Does our subject think that it is impossible that homosexuality is a natural behavior?”&lt;br /&gt;
::“Does our subject think that it is impossible that the global climate is currently warming as a result of human behavior?”&lt;br /&gt;
::How do those look to you? --[[User:Reginod|Reginod]] 23:04, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Those questions look fine to me.  Some further refinements to limit them to facts might be helpful.  But basically they look OK, and I'll add them.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 00:09, 10 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Couldn't this method of quantifying openmindedness be manipulated to receive any set of desired results? For example, if I was to ask &amp;quot;does our subject think that it is impossible for God to exist&amp;quot;, then I could automatically chalk up one closed-mindedness point from anybody who is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc. There are bound to be many questions like this, no? --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000CC&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;00FFAA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 17:43, 13 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:For all queries for 'do you believe it is imposssible that x' there should be a matching 'do you believe that it is possible that not x'.  X then merely has to cover all ideological issue.  You could even have some a priori ones as control questions.  {{unsigned|Lookamoose}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Curious About... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, there's a conversation on the Main Page that directs to this essay; it's an interesting read. However, the poster is asked &amp;quot;By the way, what's your score on Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness?&amp;quot; I thought I'd be better able to follow the conversation if I found out my own score. Am I missing a link or something? I don't see any way that I can derive a score.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I have to admit, at the risk of sounding close-minded, I'm dubious about coming up with a useful measurement. That said, here I am, checking out the source. I'll even give it more than an hour. [[User:Aziraphale|Aziraphale]] 10:41, 2 July 2007 (EDT) ''&amp;lt;-An open mind and a closed parentheses''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I suspect your real objection is to trying at all.  Six questions are posted.  What's your score on those six?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:49, 2 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: *blink* Andy, you and I have actually agreed on things on the front page. I know we're not of one mind on a lot of things (and I really do worry about isolating rather than engaging, but I know you'd disagree on that characterization), and I know you're too busy to remember who's who all the time (and I'm a pretty minor poster, I know), but an aggressive stance seems unwarranted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Anyway, here are my answers:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: 1) No, but to be fair I wasn't particularly engaged in national and world affairs back then so I shouldn't get too much credit for that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Evidence issue - maybe I'm favoring myself, but I choose not to deduct a point for failing to look at the evidence when it wasn't a conscious decision; I barely noticed the event taking place.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: 2) I never thought it was impossible. I have no advanced scientific knowledge so it would be ludicrous for me to assume that a technology is or is not possible. It actually sounds simple to me, but I've been told that it's harder than it looks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Evidence issue - if I'm reading the essay correctly, I lose a point for having heard of the issue but not investigating the evidence, even though I agree it's possible. Is that correct?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: 3) Sure it can be authentic. There's a lot stranger things in the world than that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Evidence issue - Same as #2. I accept the possibility but haven't looked into it. Do I lose a point?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: 4) I don't think the speed of light changing over time is impossible. I also don't know the arguments for or against it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Evidence issue - same as #3.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: 5) I don't think it's impossible, but of course as I mentioned before I'm dubious. If you're interested in the conversation I'll tell you why, but you haven't asked and I won't assume.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Evidence issue - well, I'm working on it right now, so this would be incomplete.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: 6) Depends on how far you want to split hairs here. If you mean the evolution vs. creation debate, I absolutely accept the possibility that we were Created. If you mean ANY evolution whatsoever... well, I guess I live by &amp;quot;never say never&amp;quot; but we're talking about a very low level of accepting the possibility.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Evidence issue - Not to split hairs again, but on the one hand I've clocked in many hours going to church, reading books, and browsing sites like this one. On the other hand, I'm not particularly interested in the evolution debate, so I haven't tried to digest all of the arguments. So... point? No point? Again, I accept the premise, so it seems kind of moot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: So, my raw score for accepting the ideas presented is either 5 or 6, depending on how you score #6. Depending on how you adjust for the follow-up questions, my score ranges from 1 to 7 (and possibly 8 depending on how long this goes on).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[User:Aziraphale|Aziraphale]] 11:36, 2 July 2007 (EDT) ''&amp;lt;- my mind is open, but there's a bouncer''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Definition ==&lt;br /&gt;
I see Andy &amp;quot;removed claims that no scientists or significant groups support&amp;quot;. Perhaps &amp;quot;openmindness&amp;quot; should be redefined as a genuine willingness to consider the evidence ''for an idea that scientists and significant groups support'' before rejecting the idea. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 21:12, 2 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Insert &amp;quot;some&amp;quot; before scientists and &amp;quot;or&amp;quot; rather than &amp;quot;and&amp;quot;, which would be consistent with the quote above, and I wouldn't object to that modified definition:  a genuine willingness to consider the evidence ''for an idea that some scientists or significant groups support''--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:22, 2 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Define it any way you want. But as it is, your questions don't really match your definition. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 03:01, 3 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==new question==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We need a question in this essay that asks the user if they believe it is possible that God doesn't exist.  This question drives to the heart of open-mindedness.  Please do not remove it without legitimate discussion.  --[[User:AntnyGonzo|AntnyGonzo]] 19:34, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:No, Gonzo...YOU will ask the author of the essay first if you can alter it.  As far as I'm concerned, you have no authorization to alter an essay of any kind.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 19:36, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:And why do we need such a question?&lt;br /&gt;
:FYI, the question you pose runs entirely counter to the thrust of the essay. An essay is not an ordinary article. It is an original work. As such, it is for the author of that original work to decide whether to include anything or not.&lt;br /&gt;
:Publish your question here, by all means--and be prepared to take criticism as to the appropriateness of the question.&lt;br /&gt;
:But '''you''' do not unilaterally change the essayist's work. If you are serious about whether being open-minded means deciding that God need not exist, write your own essay. But don't go ruining someone else's.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:TerryH|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 19:38, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::The user has been indef blocked, anyway. [[User:AManInBlack|AManInBlack]] 19:39, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::So he has. But I'll let my comment stand anyway, as a warning to anyone who might feel the slightest temptation to repeat his bad example.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:TerryH|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 19:41, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Gonzo's demand was we talk about his &amp;quot;alteration&amp;quot; on the talk page only, rather than him bring it up on the talk page, ar ask the author if he could change it first.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 19:43, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::The essay started with the request ''comments or improvements welcome'' [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Essay:Quantifying_Openmindedness&amp;amp;diff=250174&amp;amp;oldid=146961]. [[User:JohnMalin|JohnMalin]] 19:50, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::Yes it did, but since it's an essay, those comments or improvements needed to be posted and disgussed on the talk page.  Gonzo was more willing to shoot first and aks questions later.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 19:55, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ok, well I'm interested in the discussion that was so poorly started. I don't really care if the question is about the existence of God, since that's probably a lightning rod of argument, but with the possible exception of the last question about the precision of Newtonian gravity, and I don't understand it so I say &amp;quot;possible&amp;quot;, all of those questions clearly drive at &amp;quot;ok, lib, you really think you're open-minded?&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe that the Essay would benefit from example questions like &amp;quot;Is it possible that President Bush knowingly presented misleading evidence to the nation, rather than by mistake?&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Do you think that it is impossible that, through mistranslation or any other reason, the age of the Earth is misunderstood by Young Earth Creationists?&amp;quot; [[User:Aziraphale|Aziraphale]] 20:07, 25 July 2007 (EDT) ''&amp;lt;-ponderously...''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I'm open to adding liberal questions.  I deleted an earlier attempt to do this because the questions referred to crackpot theories for which there is neither scientific nor public support, like claiming that humans were populated by UFOs from outer space.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I don't have any problem with the questions posed by Aziraphale above as part of a test of open-mindedness.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:42, 25 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Unclear questions==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Interesting idea, I answered the questions. However there are two questions that are not completely clear:&lt;br /&gt;
8, &amp;quot;Do you think that there ''must'' be a material explanation for remarkable homing and migration behavior of birds and butterflies?&amp;quot; ''Material'' is unclear. Of course there is some physical ability that they have that allows them to home, so do you mean &amp;quot;naturalistic&amp;quot; instead, as in shaped without God?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11, &amp;quot;Do you think that it is possible that evolution did not occur?&amp;quot; I take it you mean universal common descent, so perhaps it should read &amp;quot;...that the theory of evolution is false?&amp;quot; Evolution is a vague term and it encompasses speciation and descent with modification, which are accepted by virtually everyone. [[User:AddisonDM|AddisonDM]] 13:23, 29 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Your point about question 8 is interesting, but I don't see how use of the term &amp;quot;naturalistic&amp;quot; improves it.  Everyone understands what &amp;quot;material explanation&amp;quot; means, but &amp;quot;naturalistic&amp;quot; is far from clear.  The question is whether the homing must be guided by something material, such as magnetism, or can it be guided by non-material phenomena, such as intelligent design that might allow for abstract programming features or divine guidance or another mechanism that transcends materialism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: As to question 11, I think the term &amp;quot;evolution&amp;quot; is widely understood to have the meaning that Darwin used for it.  I realize that some have attempted to change its meaning to salvage the concept, such as redefining evolution to be any change, but I'm reluctant to use jargon like &amp;quot;universal common descent&amp;quot; rather than commonly understood terminology.  Perhaps a footnote could explain further, which you're welcome to add!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:31, 29 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Unjustified Edit?==&lt;br /&gt;
Regarding Question Two (&amp;quot;#  Have you ever admitted that something you accepted for over a decade is, in fact, completely false? &amp;quot;), I reversed the question to &amp;quot;Have you ever realized that something you accepted for over a decade was, in fact, completely false?&amp;quot; and it was reverted as an unjustified edit. I did this because a yes means closed-minded, while accepting and admitting that you have changed your mind on one of your long-term beliefs is more openminded. It´s the same question, but phrased differently so it doesn´t corrupt the taker´s score. [[User:MaryC|MaryC]] 17:43, 12 June 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You're right about the need to reverse the question to avoid corrupting the score.  Thank you.  I've made that change.  But the reason for the reversion is that you conditioned the question on a realization.  It is the closed mind that refuses to attain that realization, so that condition had to be reverted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for your insightful edit and comment.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:23, 12 June 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Just my answers, for fun! ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
   1. No, of course not.&lt;br /&gt;
   2. A decade ago, I was 13...  so, no&lt;br /&gt;
   3. Who would?  I'VE never been to jail, unlike basically every celebrity I can name.&lt;br /&gt;
   4. What's that town in Montana with MANDATORY gun ownership, and ZERO crime?&lt;br /&gt;
   5. I was 11 months old.&lt;br /&gt;
   6. I thought SDI was demonstrated to work - haven't we shot down satellites?  Haven't the Chinese, as well?&lt;br /&gt;
   7. I think it is unlikely, not impossible.  I've researched it a bit.&lt;br /&gt;
   8. I think there must be an explanation, material or not.&lt;br /&gt;
   9. No, but I think if it was there would be evidence, possibly evidence we have yet to find.&lt;br /&gt;
  10. You can obviously measure it - take a man like [[Lee Strobel]], compare to [[Richard Dawkins]]...  there ya go!&lt;br /&gt;
  11. It is possible, yes. &lt;br /&gt;
  12. Actually, yes, I do think this is impossible.  Very simply, because the power of 2 wasn't arrived at by experimentation or observation, but by pure hard logic.  Additionally, in Newtonian gravity, it is 2 - that is part of what defines Newtonian gravity.  If it wasn't 2, then we wouldn't be talking about Newtonian gravity anymore.&lt;br /&gt;
  13. A lot of what I was taught was definitely false.&lt;br /&gt;
  14. There may be elements of Catholicism which are false, but on the whole, I'm pretty committed to it.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I just did this for fun, don't go jumping down my throat for anything! [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 19:40, 1 October 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You're open-minded.  Congratulations!  (I altered two of the questions since you responded.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Test Answers==&lt;br /&gt;
1.  No.  And I don't resist admitting the idea that a liberal, libertarian or etc., education is far more effective than a conservative education.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2.  No.  I have done this more than once throughout my life with religious and political philosophies. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3.  No.  Just as any value system has the possibility of harming different people, whether it's Hollywood values, so-called family values, religious values, secular values, etc.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4.  No.  The crime rate is affected by many variables, and using a simplistic statistic like gun ownership to predict causation for overall crime rates is nonsense.  For example, private gun ownership or a lack thereof will not affect tax cheats.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5.  No.  People and societies have overcome barriers like the Berlin Wall many times before. &lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
6.  No.  SDI was never impossible, yet much of the technology was not practical at the time.  Even today some of the technology is still in the concept or development stage.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
7.  No.  But there is very little evidence that shows the shroud was not painted by an artist.  That is why many people accept the Shroud on faith.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
8.  No.  But there is plenty of natural evidence that birds use landmarks and natural direction finding to navigate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
9.  No.  The speed of light in a vacuum may have been different in the past, for example, just after the Big Bang.  But there is no convincing evidence that I know of that demonstrates the speed of light has changed over the past millennia.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
10.  No.  But using a biased simplistic test is not the way to go about it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
11.  No.  There may be another explanation for life on Earth besides evolution, but the convincing evidence is not there according to 99% of the world's biologists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
12.  No.  There is a difference between 2 and 2.00000001, but why make things more difficult than what they already are?  In other words, my 20 mile trip to work would be 25 thousands of an inch longer or shorter if we used such maddening precision.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
13.  No.  No one person or organization is correct all the time.  I have known for years some of what I was taught in class was false and I suspect the teachers knew it was because they were required to teach the material.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to Conservapedia standards, I am a very open-minded person.&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:MichaelJB|MichaelJB]] 12:47, 2 October 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You may well be open-minded.  [[Ronald Reagan]] and other former liberals must have been open-minded or they never would have become conservatives.  The famous atheist [[Anthony Flew]] must have been open-minded or else he never would have found [[faith]] late in life.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:16, 2 October 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Another question==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;If it were proved to your satisfaction that some idea you've been using to bolster a political argument was false, would you keep using that idea in your argument?&amp;quot; --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 09:12, 27 December 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==More questions==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I added a couple of questions. Previously it was only able to discern liberal closed minded people. However being open minded means also being open minded to liberal ideas because only this way you can debunk them. Therefor it's important to have liberal questions in order to make this a better test.[[User:Marnick|Marnick]] 13:35, 25 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==A thought==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I tried this test, because I think is an interesting idea. Six &amp;quot;yes,&amp;quot; twelve &amp;quot;no.&amp;quot; But some of these questions were confusing to me. I know your website is for mostly Americans who understand these things, but would it not be better to have more general questions? The questions about specific political issues may be hard for people who do not follow American politics. Thank you.--[[User:Wuhao1911|Wuhao1911]] 00:47, 27 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for your suggestion, but could you be a bit more specific?  I glanced at the questions and they do seem to be general in nature.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Also, I wonder about the last one, which you added.  It's rare to find someone who thinks a democracy is ''impossible'' for a people.  Democracy may be incompatible with other forms of government, such as a theocracy.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 08:38, 27 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Most of them are general but I had troubled with 6, 7 and 8. I had to look up the Shroud of Turin, and I am not so familiar with Mr. Reagan's specific policies. As for my question, it was a thought based on what I have heard from some people. Some people think that a certain culture can be incompatable with liberty. Of course, I do not believe this. If liberty is natural state of people, then all people can enjoy it. I will accept your judgment on my question, though.--[[User:Wuhao1911|Wuhao1911]] 11:03, 27 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::The Shroud of Turin (question 8) has nothing to do with America.  The Berlin Wall (question 6) was, of course, in Berlin and not America.  SDI/Star Wars (question 7) is well-known in Europe also, because some of the defenses would be put there, but I agree it may be unfamiliar to those on other continents.  I don't think these questions change the overall score significantly for those who might be unfamiliar with them.  But thanks for your suggestions.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:51, 27 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the questions seem to ask &amp;quot;do you think it's possible,&amp;quot; not &amp;quot;do you think it's true,&amp;quot; which is very important.  I don't buy that the Shroud of Turin is any more than a fraud (along with the rest of the relics Rome likes to peddle), but I wouldn't say it's ''impossible.'' The only one I'm inclined to say &amp;quot;yes&amp;quot; for is SDI - it's probably impossible to get it functional with today's technology, but give it a few years and we'll see, and I have to go with N/A for the Berlin Wall question, not having existed at the time. [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 13:22, 27 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You're right in explaining how this is a test of open-mindedness, not a test of knowledge or opinions.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:31, 27 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::Very well, this makes sense to me. Good luck on this project.--[[User:Wuhao1911|Wuhao1911]] 14:45, 27 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Link to article==&lt;br /&gt;
This essay is very interesting! I am curious about the score one can achieve: is 'maximum' open-mindedness really a good thing? I have seen many talented people led astray by liberal philosophy during their studies, some going as far as to forsake their religion. In a liberal environment, open-mindedness would then be less useful than faith.  &lt;br /&gt;
On the question on the laws of motion, I have recently come across an article which may interest conservapedian editors:&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-03/spinning-disc-could-test-modified-newtonian-physics-and-kill-dark-matter-explanation&lt;br /&gt;
Regards, --[[User:TSpencer|TSpencer]] 11:31, 7 March 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Excellent link!  I've even put your story on the [[Main Page]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You're point about &amp;quot;open-mindedness&amp;quot; potentially leading people astray is a valid one but only to the extent they are ''selectively'' open-minded and mostly closed-minded.  On balance I think it is the closed-mindedness that is a problem, and Paul himself described this 2000 years in [[Romans (Translated)]], as I just learned this weekend as part of my translation efforts.  Feel free to join that effort!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:51, 7 March 2010 (EST)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Liberal&amp;diff=799336</id>
		<title>Liberal</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Liberal&amp;diff=799336"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T14:19:35Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Liberal Organizations */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Liberal Brain.jpg|thumb|450px|top|&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;A satirical conception of the liberal brain.&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A '''liberal''' (also '''leftist''') is someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons.  There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;As one liberal website candidly observes, &amp;quot;Obama is a shallow narcissist, not a believer in any cause higher than himself. Every American president has had a healthy ego, but none has ever been as purely motivated by vanity as the childishly self-loving [[Barack Obama]].&amp;quot;[http://www.opednews.com/articles/Barack-Obama-s-ego-driven-by-Christopher-Calder-091210-804.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Liberalism began as a movement for individual liberties, but today is increasingly [[statist]] and, as in Europe, [[socialist]]ic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A liberal generally supports many of the following political positions and practices:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Taxpayer-funded and/or legalized [[abortion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Censorship]] of teacher-lead [[prayer]] in classrooms and school sponsored events&lt;br /&gt;
* Support for [[gun control]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Support of obscenity and pornography as a [[First Amendment]] right&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The [[Warren Court]], led by [[liberal]] Justices [[William O. Douglas]], [[Hugo Black]], [[Abe Fortas]], [[William Brennan]] and Chief Justice [[Earl Warren]] issued 36 decisions granting [[First Amendment]] rights to obscenity and pornography. These decisions remain fully supported by liberals today.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Income redistribution]], usually through progressive taxation&lt;br /&gt;
* Government-rationed medical care, such as [[Universal Health Care]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Taxpayer-funded and government-controlled [[public education]]&lt;br /&gt;
* The denial of inherent [[gender differences]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Insisting that men and women be placed in the same jobs in the [[military]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Legalized [[same-sex marriage]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Implementation of [[affirmative action]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Political correctness]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Support of [[labor union]]s&lt;br /&gt;
* Teaching acceptance of promiscuity through sexual &amp;quot;education&amp;quot; rather than teaching [[abstinence]] from sex.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286671,00.html Democrats Aim To Kill Abstinence-Only Program Funding], [[Fox News]], Monday, June 25, 2007&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* A &amp;quot;[[living Constitution]]&amp;quot; that is reinterpreted as liberals prefer, rather than how it was intended&lt;br /&gt;
* Government programs to [[rehabilitate criminals]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Abolition of the death penalty&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Environmentalism]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[Greenpeace]], for example.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Disarmament treaties]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Globalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to the [[Bible]].&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to an interventionalist American foreign policy &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Stefaan Walgrave and Joris Verhulst, [http://nicomedia.math.upatras.gr/conf/CAWM2003/Papers/Verhulst.pdf The February 15 Worldwide Protests against a War in Iraq: An Empirical Test of Transnational Opportunities. Outline of a Research Programme](PDF).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to full private property rights&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;For example, the liberal wing of the [[U.S. Supreme Court]] issued the 5-4 [[Kelo v. City of New London]] decision authorizing the taking of private property by government in order to give the property to another private entity rather than convert it to a public use.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Reinstating the [[Fairness Doctrine]]&lt;br /&gt;
* In 2005, it was reported by CBS News that [[Theory of evolution and liberalism|liberals were the most likely supporters of the theory of evolution]]. The theory of [[evolution]] is a key component of [[atheistic]] ideologies in the [[Western World]]. &lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to domestic wire-tapping as authorized in the [[Patriot Act]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Calling anyone they agree with a &amp;quot;professor&amp;quot; regardless of whether he earned that distinction based on a real peer review of his work (see, e.g., [[Richard Dawkins]] and [[Barack Obama]]).&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition of [[Operation Iraqi Freedom]], a major part of the [[War on Terrorism]].&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;The long romance of Western leftists with some of the bloodiest regimes and political movements in history is a story not told often enough ....&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.city-journal.org/2009/bc0605bt.html Dupes by Bruce S. Thornton], City Journal - 5 June 2009&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberals and Uncharitableness==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:228130875 35181424e3.jpg|thumb|right|175px|[[United States|American]] liberals give less to charity than American conservatives.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  In addition,  [[per capita]] [[atheism|atheists]] and [[agnosticism|agnostics]] in the United States [[Atheism and Uncharitableness|give significantly less to charity than theists even when church giving is not counted for theists]].[http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/102-atheists-and-agnostics-take-aim-at-christians][http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3647/is_200310/ai_n9340592/][http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=2682730&amp;amp;page=2] ]]&lt;br /&gt;
''For more information please see'': [[Liberals and uncharitableness]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In March of 2008, [[George Will]] wrote at [[RealClearPolitics]] concerning the [[United States]]:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Sixteen months ago, Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at [[Syracuse University]], published &amp;quot;Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism.&amp;quot; The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than [[conservative]]s....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If many conservatives are liberals who have been mugged by reality, Brooks, a registered independent, is, as a reviewer of his book said, a social scientist who has been mugged by data. They include these findings:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Atheism|Atheists]] and [[agnosticism|agnostics]] often reject [[Bible|biblical]] [[morality]] (and therefore [[conservative Christianity]] ) and hold to [[moral relativism]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&amp;amp;BarnaUpdateID=152&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Therefore, it is not surprising that [[per capita]] atheists and agnostics in [[United States|America]] [[Atheism and Uncharitableness|give significantly less to charity than theists even when church giving is not counted for theists]].[http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/102-atheists-and-agnostics-take-aim-at-christians][http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3647/is_200310/ai_n9340592/][http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=2682730&amp;amp;page=2]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Liberal politicians and uncharitableness ==&lt;br /&gt;
The political magazine the [[American Spectator]] featured an article which focused on [[liberal politicians and uncharitableness]] and the article exposed the hypocrisy of the liberal politicians it featured.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c5_1238044128&amp;amp;c=1&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, [[Barack Obama]] has been criticized concerning [[Barack Obama and uncharitableness|his charitable giving]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberals and Superstition==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:2384975035_230a0eac30.jpg‎‎|thumb|right|150px|The [[Wall Street Journal]] reported: &amp;quot;A comprehensive new study released by Baylor University yesterday, shows that [[Conservative Christianity|traditional Christian religion]] greatly decreases belief in everything from the efficacy of palm readers to the usefulness of [[astrology]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
In September of 2008, the [[Wall Street Journal]] reported:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|The reality is that the [[New Atheism|New Atheist]] campaign, by discouraging [[religion]], won't create a new group of intelligent, skeptical, enlightened beings. Far from it: It might actually encourage new levels of mass superstition. And that's not a conclusion to take on faith -- it's what the empirical data tell us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;What Americans Really Believe,&amp;quot; a comprehensive new study released by Baylor University yesterday, shows that [[Conservative Christianity|traditional Christian religion]] greatly decreases belief in everything from the efficacy of palm readers to the usefulness of [[astrology]]. It also shows that the irreligious and the members of more liberal Protestant denominations, far from being resistant to superstition, tend to be much more likely to believe in the paranormal and in pseudoscience than evangelical Christians....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not a new finding. In his 1983 book &amp;quot;The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener,&amp;quot; skeptic and science writer Martin Gardner cited the decline of traditional religious belief among the better educated as one of the causes for an increase in [[pseudoscience]], cults and superstition. He referenced a 1980 study published in the magazine Skeptical Inquirer that showed irreligious college students to be by far the most likely to embrace paranormal beliefs, while born-again Christian college students were the least likely.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Liberalism in North America today ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Democrats]] and many media outlets in the [[U.S.]] are often [[liberal]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.mrc.org/biasbasics/biasbasics1.asp|title=Media Bias basics|publisher=Media Research Center}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*Some argue that liberals typically support economic policy similar to that of [[fascism]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web|url=http://fora.tv/2008/01/30/Liberal_Traits_of_Fascism|title=Video discussion about how modern liberalism is actually fascist by author Jonah Goldberg.}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Liberals claimed a monopoly on [[compassion]], [[decency]], and [[social justice]] (as defined by themselves), posing as the sole defenders of [[civic virtue]] against a horde of backwoodsmen, racists, and religious fanatics. [http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/the_disgrace_of_liberalism.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
''There's another goal, from my point of view, which is to try to lay the groundwork for a radical political force which would conceive of itself as distinctly to the left of moderate, reformist American liberals. And that has two aspects. One is to try to change that liberalism, to transform it by analysis, critique, and activism; the second is to build a radical movement which would be an autonomous force in its own right, which would be distinct from the traditional American liberal consensus. This radical part of the program involves not simply supporting the liberal students against conservative students and conservative professors, but trying to act on them, to push them to the left. It also involves trying to find and support, even trying to help create, networks of radical students in law school and of radical professors around the country — students and teachers who see themselves as wanting to go a lot further than most people want to go.'' &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&amp;amp;p=liberal+teachers&amp;amp;fr=yfp-t-501&amp;amp;fp_ip=MX&amp;amp;u=duncankennedy.net/documents/Liberal%2520Values%2520in%2520Legal%2520Education.pdf&amp;amp;w=liberal+liberals+teachers+teacher&amp;amp;d=BNZFhPReRjC1&amp;amp;icp=1&amp;amp;.intl=us Liberal Values in Legal Education] Duncan Kennedy (professor at Harvard Law School)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Liberal Rankings of Congress Members===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The National Journal compiles the votes of each congress member each year and uses the information to create rankings&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/index.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of how liberal each member of the United States [[Congress]] is. In addition to showing the voting records of each member and given an overall all ranking of liberalness, the National Journal also ranks congress members by liberalness in the areas of social, economic, and foreign policy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberalism in Europe today==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Europe, on the other hand, parties that call themselves ''liberal'' are moderate in outlook, ranging from centre-left to centre-right, promote typically economic and business freedom. The Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.alde.eu&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; is a party of the European Parliament that represents most ''liberal'' parties from European countries. Similar policies are promoted by many ''liberal'' parties throughout the world,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.liberal-international.org/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; such as the Liberal Party of Australia.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.liberal.org.au/]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Trade unions and socialist parties often criticize politicians for promoting lower taxes on business, or more flexible hiring and firing laws, by calling them &amp;quot;liberals&amp;quot; or [[neoliberal|neoliberals]]. Thus, just as in the US, &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; may occasionally be used as a term of abuse. But when someone is called &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; in Europe, it has an entirely different meaning than in the US. In fact, the US meaning of liberal is more similar to the politics of European [[socialist]] or [[social democracy|social democratic]] parties.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.pes.org]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Historical Liberalism ==&lt;br /&gt;
In history, the word &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; has meant different things at different times, and was associated with individual liberty in prior centuries. In the postwar period, liberals supported government intervention in the economy and welfare state policies, as well as peaceful coexistence with the communist block, which are not liberal policies in the sense of classical liberalism. After the end of the cold war, with the demise of socialism and communism, many liberals embraced some ideas from economic neo-liberalism, and coined it the &amp;quot;Third Way&amp;quot;. In the area of national security and foreign policy liberals in the [[U.S.]] failed to define a consistent stance, even after the events of 9/11 and the beginning of the war in Iraq.  Liberals generally support affirmative action, gay marriage, and abortion.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Political liberals tend, for whatever reason, to be ardent supporters of both gay rights and pro-choice programs.&amp;quot; Greenberg and Bailey [http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Bailey/Greenberg-Bailey/Homosexual%20Eugenics.pdf]  &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Original meaning: Classical Liberalism==&lt;br /&gt;
Liberalism is a political philosophy with freedom as its core value. The term was originally applied to supporters of individual liberties and equal rights, but, in America, the term has come to represent a movement of social change that often conflicts with [[conservative]] values such as moral values and tradition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See [[Classical Liberal|Classical Liberalism]]. Compare [[Libertarianism]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Alternative meanings of 'liberal'==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One definition of liberal is anything that is not conservative.  For example, the American Heritage Dictionary includes this definition of &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot;:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberal&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
* Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberal Organizations == &lt;br /&gt;
*[[AARP|AARP - American Association of Retired People]] &lt;br /&gt;
*[[ACLU|ACLU - American Civil Liberties Union]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ACORN|ACORN - Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[AFL-CIO|AFL-CIO - American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Amnesty International|AI - Amnesty International]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Democratic National Committee]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Greenpeace]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[NARAL|NARAL - National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[NAACP|NAACP - National Association for the Advancement of Colored People]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Committee for an Effective Congress]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Education Association]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Organization of Women]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Planned Parenthood|Planned Parenthood Federation of America]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Progressives for Obama]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Rainbow/PUSH Coalition]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[MoveOn.org]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[A.N.S.W.E.R.]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[U.S. Peace Council]]&lt;br /&gt;
Source: [http://www.politixgroup.com/lo.htm The Politix Group]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See Also==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Conservapedia:Articles about liberals|Articles about liberals]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Classical liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Drinking Liberally]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Godless liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Last wordism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal celebrity obsession|Liberal celebrity obsession]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal Behavior on Conservapedia|Liberal Behavior on Conservapedia]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Christianity]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Democrats]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Elite]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay: Liberal Falsehoods|Liberal Falsehoods]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Fascism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal friendship]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Gloss]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal grading]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal hypocrisy]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal hysteria|Liberal hysteria]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal Intellectualism|Liberal Intellectualism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberalism and art]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal labels]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right|Liberal Lies About the American Right]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal logic]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness|Liberal Mind]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Party]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal supremacist]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Massachusetts liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Progressives]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Further Information==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Best_New_Conservative_Words#New_Liberal_Terms|New Liberal Terms]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Conservative Links]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{liberalism}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Political Ideologies]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Politics]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category: Liberals]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Liberal&amp;diff=799335</id>
		<title>Liberal</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Liberal&amp;diff=799335"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T14:18:34Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Liberal Organizations */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Liberal Brain.jpg|thumb|450px|top|&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;A satirical conception of the liberal brain.&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A '''liberal''' (also '''leftist''') is someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons.  There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;As one liberal website candidly observes, &amp;quot;Obama is a shallow narcissist, not a believer in any cause higher than himself. Every American president has had a healthy ego, but none has ever been as purely motivated by vanity as the childishly self-loving [[Barack Obama]].&amp;quot;[http://www.opednews.com/articles/Barack-Obama-s-ego-driven-by-Christopher-Calder-091210-804.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Liberalism began as a movement for individual liberties, but today is increasingly [[statist]] and, as in Europe, [[socialist]]ic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A liberal generally supports many of the following political positions and practices:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Taxpayer-funded and/or legalized [[abortion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Censorship]] of teacher-lead [[prayer]] in classrooms and school sponsored events&lt;br /&gt;
* Support for [[gun control]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Support of obscenity and pornography as a [[First Amendment]] right&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The [[Warren Court]], led by [[liberal]] Justices [[William O. Douglas]], [[Hugo Black]], [[Abe Fortas]], [[William Brennan]] and Chief Justice [[Earl Warren]] issued 36 decisions granting [[First Amendment]] rights to obscenity and pornography. These decisions remain fully supported by liberals today.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Income redistribution]], usually through progressive taxation&lt;br /&gt;
* Government-rationed medical care, such as [[Universal Health Care]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Taxpayer-funded and government-controlled [[public education]]&lt;br /&gt;
* The denial of inherent [[gender differences]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Insisting that men and women be placed in the same jobs in the [[military]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Legalized [[same-sex marriage]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Implementation of [[affirmative action]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Political correctness]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Support of [[labor union]]s&lt;br /&gt;
* Teaching acceptance of promiscuity through sexual &amp;quot;education&amp;quot; rather than teaching [[abstinence]] from sex.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286671,00.html Democrats Aim To Kill Abstinence-Only Program Funding], [[Fox News]], Monday, June 25, 2007&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* A &amp;quot;[[living Constitution]]&amp;quot; that is reinterpreted as liberals prefer, rather than how it was intended&lt;br /&gt;
* Government programs to [[rehabilitate criminals]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Abolition of the death penalty&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Environmentalism]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[Greenpeace]], for example.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Disarmament treaties]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Globalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to the [[Bible]].&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to an interventionalist American foreign policy &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Stefaan Walgrave and Joris Verhulst, [http://nicomedia.math.upatras.gr/conf/CAWM2003/Papers/Verhulst.pdf The February 15 Worldwide Protests against a War in Iraq: An Empirical Test of Transnational Opportunities. Outline of a Research Programme](PDF).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to full private property rights&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;For example, the liberal wing of the [[U.S. Supreme Court]] issued the 5-4 [[Kelo v. City of New London]] decision authorizing the taking of private property by government in order to give the property to another private entity rather than convert it to a public use.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Reinstating the [[Fairness Doctrine]]&lt;br /&gt;
* In 2005, it was reported by CBS News that [[Theory of evolution and liberalism|liberals were the most likely supporters of the theory of evolution]]. The theory of [[evolution]] is a key component of [[atheistic]] ideologies in the [[Western World]]. &lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to domestic wire-tapping as authorized in the [[Patriot Act]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Calling anyone they agree with a &amp;quot;professor&amp;quot; regardless of whether he earned that distinction based on a real peer review of his work (see, e.g., [[Richard Dawkins]] and [[Barack Obama]]).&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition of [[Operation Iraqi Freedom]], a major part of the [[War on Terrorism]].&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;The long romance of Western leftists with some of the bloodiest regimes and political movements in history is a story not told often enough ....&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.city-journal.org/2009/bc0605bt.html Dupes by Bruce S. Thornton], City Journal - 5 June 2009&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberals and Uncharitableness==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:228130875 35181424e3.jpg|thumb|right|175px|[[United States|American]] liberals give less to charity than American conservatives.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  In addition,  [[per capita]] [[atheism|atheists]] and [[agnosticism|agnostics]] in the United States [[Atheism and Uncharitableness|give significantly less to charity than theists even when church giving is not counted for theists]].[http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/102-atheists-and-agnostics-take-aim-at-christians][http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3647/is_200310/ai_n9340592/][http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=2682730&amp;amp;page=2] ]]&lt;br /&gt;
''For more information please see'': [[Liberals and uncharitableness]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In March of 2008, [[George Will]] wrote at [[RealClearPolitics]] concerning the [[United States]]:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Sixteen months ago, Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at [[Syracuse University]], published &amp;quot;Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism.&amp;quot; The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than [[conservative]]s....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If many conservatives are liberals who have been mugged by reality, Brooks, a registered independent, is, as a reviewer of his book said, a social scientist who has been mugged by data. They include these findings:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Atheism|Atheists]] and [[agnosticism|agnostics]] often reject [[Bible|biblical]] [[morality]] (and therefore [[conservative Christianity]] ) and hold to [[moral relativism]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&amp;amp;BarnaUpdateID=152&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Therefore, it is not surprising that [[per capita]] atheists and agnostics in [[United States|America]] [[Atheism and Uncharitableness|give significantly less to charity than theists even when church giving is not counted for theists]].[http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/102-atheists-and-agnostics-take-aim-at-christians][http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3647/is_200310/ai_n9340592/][http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=2682730&amp;amp;page=2]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Liberal politicians and uncharitableness ==&lt;br /&gt;
The political magazine the [[American Spectator]] featured an article which focused on [[liberal politicians and uncharitableness]] and the article exposed the hypocrisy of the liberal politicians it featured.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c5_1238044128&amp;amp;c=1&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, [[Barack Obama]] has been criticized concerning [[Barack Obama and uncharitableness|his charitable giving]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberals and Superstition==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:2384975035_230a0eac30.jpg‎‎|thumb|right|150px|The [[Wall Street Journal]] reported: &amp;quot;A comprehensive new study released by Baylor University yesterday, shows that [[Conservative Christianity|traditional Christian religion]] greatly decreases belief in everything from the efficacy of palm readers to the usefulness of [[astrology]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
In September of 2008, the [[Wall Street Journal]] reported:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|The reality is that the [[New Atheism|New Atheist]] campaign, by discouraging [[religion]], won't create a new group of intelligent, skeptical, enlightened beings. Far from it: It might actually encourage new levels of mass superstition. And that's not a conclusion to take on faith -- it's what the empirical data tell us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;What Americans Really Believe,&amp;quot; a comprehensive new study released by Baylor University yesterday, shows that [[Conservative Christianity|traditional Christian religion]] greatly decreases belief in everything from the efficacy of palm readers to the usefulness of [[astrology]]. It also shows that the irreligious and the members of more liberal Protestant denominations, far from being resistant to superstition, tend to be much more likely to believe in the paranormal and in pseudoscience than evangelical Christians....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not a new finding. In his 1983 book &amp;quot;The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener,&amp;quot; skeptic and science writer Martin Gardner cited the decline of traditional religious belief among the better educated as one of the causes for an increase in [[pseudoscience]], cults and superstition. He referenced a 1980 study published in the magazine Skeptical Inquirer that showed irreligious college students to be by far the most likely to embrace paranormal beliefs, while born-again Christian college students were the least likely.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Liberalism in North America today ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Democrats]] and many media outlets in the [[U.S.]] are often [[liberal]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.mrc.org/biasbasics/biasbasics1.asp|title=Media Bias basics|publisher=Media Research Center}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*Some argue that liberals typically support economic policy similar to that of [[fascism]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web|url=http://fora.tv/2008/01/30/Liberal_Traits_of_Fascism|title=Video discussion about how modern liberalism is actually fascist by author Jonah Goldberg.}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Liberals claimed a monopoly on [[compassion]], [[decency]], and [[social justice]] (as defined by themselves), posing as the sole defenders of [[civic virtue]] against a horde of backwoodsmen, racists, and religious fanatics. [http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/the_disgrace_of_liberalism.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
''There's another goal, from my point of view, which is to try to lay the groundwork for a radical political force which would conceive of itself as distinctly to the left of moderate, reformist American liberals. And that has two aspects. One is to try to change that liberalism, to transform it by analysis, critique, and activism; the second is to build a radical movement which would be an autonomous force in its own right, which would be distinct from the traditional American liberal consensus. This radical part of the program involves not simply supporting the liberal students against conservative students and conservative professors, but trying to act on them, to push them to the left. It also involves trying to find and support, even trying to help create, networks of radical students in law school and of radical professors around the country — students and teachers who see themselves as wanting to go a lot further than most people want to go.'' &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&amp;amp;p=liberal+teachers&amp;amp;fr=yfp-t-501&amp;amp;fp_ip=MX&amp;amp;u=duncankennedy.net/documents/Liberal%2520Values%2520in%2520Legal%2520Education.pdf&amp;amp;w=liberal+liberals+teachers+teacher&amp;amp;d=BNZFhPReRjC1&amp;amp;icp=1&amp;amp;.intl=us Liberal Values in Legal Education] Duncan Kennedy (professor at Harvard Law School)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Liberal Rankings of Congress Members===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The National Journal compiles the votes of each congress member each year and uses the information to create rankings&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/index.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of how liberal each member of the United States [[Congress]] is. In addition to showing the voting records of each member and given an overall all ranking of liberalness, the National Journal also ranks congress members by liberalness in the areas of social, economic, and foreign policy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberalism in Europe today==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Europe, on the other hand, parties that call themselves ''liberal'' are moderate in outlook, ranging from centre-left to centre-right, promote typically economic and business freedom. The Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.alde.eu&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; is a party of the European Parliament that represents most ''liberal'' parties from European countries. Similar policies are promoted by many ''liberal'' parties throughout the world,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.liberal-international.org/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; such as the Liberal Party of Australia.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.liberal.org.au/]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Trade unions and socialist parties often criticize politicians for promoting lower taxes on business, or more flexible hiring and firing laws, by calling them &amp;quot;liberals&amp;quot; or [[neoliberal|neoliberals]]. Thus, just as in the US, &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; may occasionally be used as a term of abuse. But when someone is called &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; in Europe, it has an entirely different meaning than in the US. In fact, the US meaning of liberal is more similar to the politics of European [[socialist]] or [[social democracy|social democratic]] parties.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.pes.org]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Historical Liberalism ==&lt;br /&gt;
In history, the word &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; has meant different things at different times, and was associated with individual liberty in prior centuries. In the postwar period, liberals supported government intervention in the economy and welfare state policies, as well as peaceful coexistence with the communist block, which are not liberal policies in the sense of classical liberalism. After the end of the cold war, with the demise of socialism and communism, many liberals embraced some ideas from economic neo-liberalism, and coined it the &amp;quot;Third Way&amp;quot;. In the area of national security and foreign policy liberals in the [[U.S.]] failed to define a consistent stance, even after the events of 9/11 and the beginning of the war in Iraq.  Liberals generally support affirmative action, gay marriage, and abortion.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Political liberals tend, for whatever reason, to be ardent supporters of both gay rights and pro-choice programs.&amp;quot; Greenberg and Bailey [http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Bailey/Greenberg-Bailey/Homosexual%20Eugenics.pdf]  &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Original meaning: Classical Liberalism==&lt;br /&gt;
Liberalism is a political philosophy with freedom as its core value. The term was originally applied to supporters of individual liberties and equal rights, but, in America, the term has come to represent a movement of social change that often conflicts with [[conservative]] values such as moral values and tradition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See [[Classical Liberal|Classical Liberalism]]. Compare [[Libertarianism]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Alternative meanings of 'liberal'==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One definition of liberal is anything that is not conservative.  For example, the American Heritage Dictionary includes this definition of &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot;:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberal&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
* Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberal Organizations == &lt;br /&gt;
*[[AARP|AARP - American Association of Retired People]] &lt;br /&gt;
*[[ACLU|ACLU - American Civil Liberties Union]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ACORN - Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now|ACORN]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[AFL-CIO|AFL-CIO - American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Amnesty International|AI - Amnesty International]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Democratic National Committee]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Greenpeace]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[NARAL|NARAL - National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[NAACP|NAACP - National Association for the Advancement of Colored People]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Committee for an Effective Congress]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Education Association]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Organization of Women]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Planned Parenthood|Planned Parenthood Federation of America]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Progressives for Obama]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Rainbow/PUSH Coalition]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[MoveOn.org]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[A.N.S.W.E.R.]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[U.S. Peace Council]]&lt;br /&gt;
Source: [http://www.politixgroup.com/lo.htm The Politix Group]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See Also==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Conservapedia:Articles about liberals|Articles about liberals]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Classical liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Drinking Liberally]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Godless liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Last wordism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal celebrity obsession|Liberal celebrity obsession]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal Behavior on Conservapedia|Liberal Behavior on Conservapedia]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Christianity]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Democrats]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Elite]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay: Liberal Falsehoods|Liberal Falsehoods]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Fascism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal friendship]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Gloss]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal grading]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal hypocrisy]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal hysteria|Liberal hysteria]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal Intellectualism|Liberal Intellectualism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberalism and art]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal labels]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right|Liberal Lies About the American Right]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal logic]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness|Liberal Mind]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Party]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal supremacist]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Massachusetts liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Progressives]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Further Information==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Best_New_Conservative_Words#New_Liberal_Terms|New Liberal Terms]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Conservative Links]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{liberalism}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Political Ideologies]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Politics]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category: Liberals]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Liberal&amp;diff=799334</id>
		<title>Liberal</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Liberal&amp;diff=799334"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T14:18:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Liberal Organizations */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Liberal Brain.jpg|thumb|450px|top|&amp;lt;center&amp;gt;A satirical conception of the liberal brain.&amp;lt;/center&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A '''liberal''' (also '''leftist''') is someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons.  There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;As one liberal website candidly observes, &amp;quot;Obama is a shallow narcissist, not a believer in any cause higher than himself. Every American president has had a healthy ego, but none has ever been as purely motivated by vanity as the childishly self-loving [[Barack Obama]].&amp;quot;[http://www.opednews.com/articles/Barack-Obama-s-ego-driven-by-Christopher-Calder-091210-804.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Liberalism began as a movement for individual liberties, but today is increasingly [[statist]] and, as in Europe, [[socialist]]ic.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A liberal generally supports many of the following political positions and practices:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Taxpayer-funded and/or legalized [[abortion]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Censorship]] of teacher-lead [[prayer]] in classrooms and school sponsored events&lt;br /&gt;
* Support for [[gun control]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Support of obscenity and pornography as a [[First Amendment]] right&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;The [[Warren Court]], led by [[liberal]] Justices [[William O. Douglas]], [[Hugo Black]], [[Abe Fortas]], [[William Brennan]] and Chief Justice [[Earl Warren]] issued 36 decisions granting [[First Amendment]] rights to obscenity and pornography. These decisions remain fully supported by liberals today.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Income redistribution]], usually through progressive taxation&lt;br /&gt;
* Government-rationed medical care, such as [[Universal Health Care]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Taxpayer-funded and government-controlled [[public education]]&lt;br /&gt;
* The denial of inherent [[gender differences]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Insisting that men and women be placed in the same jobs in the [[military]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Legalized [[same-sex marriage]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Implementation of [[affirmative action]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Political correctness]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Support of [[labor union]]s&lt;br /&gt;
* Teaching acceptance of promiscuity through sexual &amp;quot;education&amp;quot; rather than teaching [[abstinence]] from sex.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286671,00.html Democrats Aim To Kill Abstinence-Only Program Funding], [[Fox News]], Monday, June 25, 2007&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* A &amp;quot;[[living Constitution]]&amp;quot; that is reinterpreted as liberals prefer, rather than how it was intended&lt;br /&gt;
* Government programs to [[rehabilitate criminals]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Abolition of the death penalty&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Environmentalism]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[[Greenpeace]], for example.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Disarmament treaties]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Globalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to the [[Bible]].&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to an interventionalist American foreign policy &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Stefaan Walgrave and Joris Verhulst, [http://nicomedia.math.upatras.gr/conf/CAWM2003/Papers/Verhulst.pdf The February 15 Worldwide Protests against a War in Iraq: An Empirical Test of Transnational Opportunities. Outline of a Research Programme](PDF).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to full private property rights&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;For example, the liberal wing of the [[U.S. Supreme Court]] issued the 5-4 [[Kelo v. City of New London]] decision authorizing the taking of private property by government in order to give the property to another private entity rather than convert it to a public use.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
* Reinstating the [[Fairness Doctrine]]&lt;br /&gt;
* In 2005, it was reported by CBS News that [[Theory of evolution and liberalism|liberals were the most likely supporters of the theory of evolution]]. The theory of [[evolution]] is a key component of [[atheistic]] ideologies in the [[Western World]]. &lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition to domestic wire-tapping as authorized in the [[Patriot Act]]&lt;br /&gt;
* Calling anyone they agree with a &amp;quot;professor&amp;quot; regardless of whether he earned that distinction based on a real peer review of his work (see, e.g., [[Richard Dawkins]] and [[Barack Obama]]).&lt;br /&gt;
* Opposition of [[Operation Iraqi Freedom]], a major part of the [[War on Terrorism]].&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;The long romance of Western leftists with some of the bloodiest regimes and political movements in history is a story not told often enough ....&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.city-journal.org/2009/bc0605bt.html Dupes by Bruce S. Thornton], City Journal - 5 June 2009&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberals and Uncharitableness==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:228130875 35181424e3.jpg|thumb|right|175px|[[United States|American]] liberals give less to charity than American conservatives.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  In addition,  [[per capita]] [[atheism|atheists]] and [[agnosticism|agnostics]] in the United States [[Atheism and Uncharitableness|give significantly less to charity than theists even when church giving is not counted for theists]].[http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/102-atheists-and-agnostics-take-aim-at-christians][http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3647/is_200310/ai_n9340592/][http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=2682730&amp;amp;page=2] ]]&lt;br /&gt;
''For more information please see'': [[Liberals and uncharitableness]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In March of 2008, [[George Will]] wrote at [[RealClearPolitics]] concerning the [[United States]]:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|Sixteen months ago, Arthur C. Brooks, a professor at [[Syracuse University]], published &amp;quot;Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism.&amp;quot; The surprise is that liberals are markedly less charitable than [[conservative]]s....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If many conservatives are liberals who have been mugged by reality, Brooks, a registered independent, is, as a reviewer of his book said, a social scientist who has been mugged by data. They include these findings:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
-- Conservatives also donate more time and give more blood.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Atheism|Atheists]] and [[agnosticism|agnostics]] often reject [[Bible|biblical]] [[morality]] (and therefore [[conservative Christianity]] ) and hold to [[moral relativism]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.barna.org/FlexPage.aspx?Page=BarnaUpdate&amp;amp;BarnaUpdateID=152&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Therefore, it is not surprising that [[per capita]] atheists and agnostics in [[United States|America]] [[Atheism and Uncharitableness|give significantly less to charity than theists even when church giving is not counted for theists]].[http://www.barna.org/barna-update/article/12-faithspirituality/102-atheists-and-agnostics-take-aim-at-christians][http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3647/is_200310/ai_n9340592/][http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=2682730&amp;amp;page=2]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Liberal politicians and uncharitableness ==&lt;br /&gt;
The political magazine the [[American Spectator]] featured an article which focused on [[liberal politicians and uncharitableness]] and the article exposed the hypocrisy of the liberal politicians it featured.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1c5_1238044128&amp;amp;c=1&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In addition, [[Barack Obama]] has been criticized concerning [[Barack Obama and uncharitableness|his charitable giving]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberals and Superstition==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:2384975035_230a0eac30.jpg‎‎|thumb|right|150px|The [[Wall Street Journal]] reported: &amp;quot;A comprehensive new study released by Baylor University yesterday, shows that [[Conservative Christianity|traditional Christian religion]] greatly decreases belief in everything from the efficacy of palm readers to the usefulness of [[astrology]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;]]&lt;br /&gt;
In September of 2008, the [[Wall Street Journal]] reported:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|The reality is that the [[New Atheism|New Atheist]] campaign, by discouraging [[religion]], won't create a new group of intelligent, skeptical, enlightened beings. Far from it: It might actually encourage new levels of mass superstition. And that's not a conclusion to take on faith -- it's what the empirical data tell us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;What Americans Really Believe,&amp;quot; a comprehensive new study released by Baylor University yesterday, shows that [[Conservative Christianity|traditional Christian religion]] greatly decreases belief in everything from the efficacy of palm readers to the usefulness of [[astrology]]. It also shows that the irreligious and the members of more liberal Protestant denominations, far from being resistant to superstition, tend to be much more likely to believe in the paranormal and in pseudoscience than evangelical Christians....&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This is not a new finding. In his 1983 book &amp;quot;The Whys of a Philosophical Scrivener,&amp;quot; skeptic and science writer Martin Gardner cited the decline of traditional religious belief among the better educated as one of the causes for an increase in [[pseudoscience]], cults and superstition. He referenced a 1980 study published in the magazine Skeptical Inquirer that showed irreligious college students to be by far the most likely to embrace paranormal beliefs, while born-again Christian college students were the least likely.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122178219865054585.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Liberalism in North America today ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Democrats]] and many media outlets in the [[U.S.]] are often [[liberal]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web|url=http://www.mrc.org/biasbasics/biasbasics1.asp|title=Media Bias basics|publisher=Media Research Center}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*Some argue that liberals typically support economic policy similar to that of [[fascism]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web|url=http://fora.tv/2008/01/30/Liberal_Traits_of_Fascism|title=Video discussion about how modern liberalism is actually fascist by author Jonah Goldberg.}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Liberals claimed a monopoly on [[compassion]], [[decency]], and [[social justice]] (as defined by themselves), posing as the sole defenders of [[civic virtue]] against a horde of backwoodsmen, racists, and religious fanatics. [http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/03/the_disgrace_of_liberalism.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
''There's another goal, from my point of view, which is to try to lay the groundwork for a radical political force which would conceive of itself as distinctly to the left of moderate, reformist American liberals. And that has two aspects. One is to try to change that liberalism, to transform it by analysis, critique, and activism; the second is to build a radical movement which would be an autonomous force in its own right, which would be distinct from the traditional American liberal consensus. This radical part of the program involves not simply supporting the liberal students against conservative students and conservative professors, but trying to act on them, to push them to the left. It also involves trying to find and support, even trying to help create, networks of radical students in law school and of radical professors around the country — students and teachers who see themselves as wanting to go a lot further than most people want to go.'' &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://66.218.69.11/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&amp;amp;p=liberal+teachers&amp;amp;fr=yfp-t-501&amp;amp;fp_ip=MX&amp;amp;u=duncankennedy.net/documents/Liberal%2520Values%2520in%2520Legal%2520Education.pdf&amp;amp;w=liberal+liberals+teachers+teacher&amp;amp;d=BNZFhPReRjC1&amp;amp;icp=1&amp;amp;.intl=us Liberal Values in Legal Education] Duncan Kennedy (professor at Harvard Law School)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Liberal Rankings of Congress Members===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The National Journal compiles the votes of each congress member each year and uses the information to create rankings&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/index.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; of how liberal each member of the United States [[Congress]] is. In addition to showing the voting records of each member and given an overall all ranking of liberalness, the National Journal also ranks congress members by liberalness in the areas of social, economic, and foreign policy.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberalism in Europe today==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Europe, on the other hand, parties that call themselves ''liberal'' are moderate in outlook, ranging from centre-left to centre-right, promote typically economic and business freedom. The Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.alde.eu&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; is a party of the European Parliament that represents most ''liberal'' parties from European countries. Similar policies are promoted by many ''liberal'' parties throughout the world,&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.liberal-international.org/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; such as the Liberal Party of Australia.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.liberal.org.au/]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Trade unions and socialist parties often criticize politicians for promoting lower taxes on business, or more flexible hiring and firing laws, by calling them &amp;quot;liberals&amp;quot; or [[neoliberal|neoliberals]]. Thus, just as in the US, &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; may occasionally be used as a term of abuse. But when someone is called &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; in Europe, it has an entirely different meaning than in the US. In fact, the US meaning of liberal is more similar to the politics of European [[socialist]] or [[social democracy|social democratic]] parties.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.pes.org]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Historical Liberalism ==&lt;br /&gt;
In history, the word &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; has meant different things at different times, and was associated with individual liberty in prior centuries. In the postwar period, liberals supported government intervention in the economy and welfare state policies, as well as peaceful coexistence with the communist block, which are not liberal policies in the sense of classical liberalism. After the end of the cold war, with the demise of socialism and communism, many liberals embraced some ideas from economic neo-liberalism, and coined it the &amp;quot;Third Way&amp;quot;. In the area of national security and foreign policy liberals in the [[U.S.]] failed to define a consistent stance, even after the events of 9/11 and the beginning of the war in Iraq.  Liberals generally support affirmative action, gay marriage, and abortion.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Political liberals tend, for whatever reason, to be ardent supporters of both gay rights and pro-choice programs.&amp;quot; Greenberg and Bailey [http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Bailey/Greenberg-Bailey/Homosexual%20Eugenics.pdf]  &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Original meaning: Classical Liberalism==&lt;br /&gt;
Liberalism is a political philosophy with freedom as its core value. The term was originally applied to supporters of individual liberties and equal rights, but, in America, the term has come to represent a movement of social change that often conflicts with [[conservative]] values such as moral values and tradition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
See [[Classical Liberal|Classical Liberalism]]. Compare [[Libertarianism]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Alternative meanings of 'liberal'==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One definition of liberal is anything that is not conservative.  For example, the American Heritage Dictionary includes this definition of &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot;:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liberal&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
* Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas ...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Liberal Organizations == &lt;br /&gt;
*[[AARP|AARP - American Association of Retired People]] &lt;br /&gt;
*[[ACLU|ACLU - American Civil Liberties Union]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[ACORN - Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now|Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[AFL-CIO|AFL-CIO - American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Amnesty International|AI - Amnesty International]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Democratic National Committee]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Greenpeace]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[NARAL|NARAL - National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[NAACP|NAACP - National Association for the Advancement of Colored People]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Committee for an Effective Congress]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Education Association]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[National Organization of Women]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Planned Parenthood|Planned Parenthood Federation of America]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Progressives for Obama]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Rainbow/PUSH Coalition]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[MoveOn.org]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[A.N.S.W.E.R.]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[U.S. Peace Council]]&lt;br /&gt;
Source: [http://www.politixgroup.com/lo.htm The Politix Group]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See Also==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Conservapedia:Articles about liberals|Articles about liberals]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Classical liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Drinking Liberally]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Godless liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Last wordism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal celebrity obsession|Liberal celebrity obsession]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal Behavior on Conservapedia|Liberal Behavior on Conservapedia]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Christianity]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Democrats]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Elite]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay: Liberal Falsehoods|Liberal Falsehoods]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Fascism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal friendship]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Gloss]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal grading]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal hypocrisy]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal hysteria|Liberal hysteria]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:Liberal Intellectualism|Liberal Intellectualism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberalism and art]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal labels]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Slander: Liberal Lies About the American Right|Liberal Lies About the American Right]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal logic]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[The Liberal Mind: The Psychological Causes of Political Madness|Liberal Mind]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal Party]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Liberal supremacist]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Massachusetts liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Progressives]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Further Information==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Best_New_Conservative_Words#New_Liberal_Terms|New Liberal Terms]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Conservative Links]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{liberalism}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Political Ideologies]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Politics]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category: Liberals]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Conservapedia_talk:Index&amp;diff=799332</id>
		<title>Conservapedia talk:Index</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Conservapedia_talk:Index&amp;diff=799332"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T14:14:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: /* Writing Course */ new section&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{protected|Aschlafly}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that we should change this page so that instead of having:&lt;br /&gt;
Ancient History terms&lt;br /&gt;
Middle Ages Terms&lt;br /&gt;
... &lt;br /&gt;
We should Have:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ancient History&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Middle Ages &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Renessaince&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
and in each one have a page on the time period, and a link to the term list for that time period&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Look at the renassaince link to see what i mean.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* yes i do agree with you idea, i suggest that you send out an email with that idea to everyone cus i dont think anyone will see it here... pub&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* I would, but i don't have everyone's e-mail addresses.  could you send me a list?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Add Geology==&lt;br /&gt;
Please add Geology to the Science list [[User:Crocoite|Crocoite]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_talk:Crocoite|Talk]] &amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 01:53, 27 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Writing Course ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When might the writing course be available to take? --[[User:Jwilhem|Jwilhem]] 10:14, 30 July 2010 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Bill_Maher&amp;diff=799331</id>
		<title>Bill Maher</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Bill_Maher&amp;diff=799331"/>
		<updated>2010-07-30T14:12:18Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Jwilhem: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Bill Maher''' is arguably a  [[Socialism|socialist]], certainly an [[atheist]] and [[liberal]] comedian, actor, writer, producer, and [[Democratic Party]] activist. He is most notable as the host of ''[[Real Time|Real Time with Bill Maher]]'', which airs on the HBO television network. Maher formerly hosted [[Politically Incorrect]] on Comedy Central.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Television shows &amp;amp; Other Media ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ABC decided not to renew Maher's contract for ''Politically Incorrect'' in 2002 after he agreed with a point posed by conservative commentator and guest [[Dinesh D'Souza]] that the terrorists in the September 11, 2001 attacks should not be called cowards. Maher expanded on his point, saying &amp;quot;We have been the cowards lobbing cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly.&amp;quot; &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=14941]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the aftermath of the attacks, the remark made him too controversial for some of the show's most prominent advertisers. Companies including FedEx and Sears Roebuck pulled their advertisements from the show, causing it to become unprofitable. The show was subsequently canceled on June 16, 2002.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maher's comment accusing America of cowardice followed another controversial comment he made on ''Politically Incorrect'' where he compared mentally handicapped children to dogs:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|But I've often said that if I had &amp;amp;mdash; I have two dogs &amp;amp;mdash; if I had two retarded children, I'd be a hero. And yet the dogs, which are pretty much the same thing. What? They're sweet. They're loving. They're kind, but they don't mentally advance at all ... Dogs are like retarded children.}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ABC was still dealing with the fallout from this statement when it decided not to renew Maher's contract.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 2003, Maher became the host of ''Real Time with Bill Maher'' on the HBO cable television network, a debate show somewhat similar to ''Politically Incorrect'', but with a narrower selection of guests.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Political claims and statements ==&lt;br /&gt;
Despite bizarre claims of being a [[Libertarianism|libertarian]], his views are more line with totalitarian-[[communism]]. In fact, most of his views are in direct opposition to libertarian ideology, such as his support of government regulation of corporations, foreign aid, public schooling, a ban on homeschooling, campaign finance restrictions, restricting carbon emissions and creating other radical &amp;quot;environmental protection&amp;quot; laws, affirmative action, minimum wage laws, absolute gun control, support for the [[United Nations]], income redistribution through higher taxation, and socialized medicine. He supported [[Ralph Nader]] in the 2000 U.S. presidential election, but not in 2004. He has even praised Janet Reno and the ATF for its action in the massacre in Waco, Texas. He supports personal choice on moral issues, including abortion, the use of drugs, gambling, and prostitution. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Maher was formerly involved in a relationship with model Nancy Johnson a.k.a. &amp;quot;Coco Johnsen&amp;quot;. However, Ms. Johnson ended it and in November of 2004 sued Maher for palimony amid allegations of verbal and physical abuse.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1111041coco1.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Maher said that he never promised to marry her and that the claims of abuse were a money making scam.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/12-1-2004-62384.asp]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Somewhat anachronistically, he voted for [[Bob Dole]] in the 1996 Presidential election, calling him an &amp;quot;old-fashioned&amp;quot; Republican. He is also a personal friend of [[Ann Coulter]], despite (or perhaps because of) their widely divergent views. She was a frequent guest on ''Politically Incorrect.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Victory: Begins at Home==&lt;br /&gt;
Not surprisingly, the [[New York Times]] raved about his 2003 overtly anti-Catholic, one-man broadway show &amp;quot;Victory: Begins at Home&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/295903/Bill-Maher-Victory-Begins-at-Home/overview NYTIMES review]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; http://www.catholicleague.org/annualreport.php?year=2003&amp;amp;id=80&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Religulous==&lt;br /&gt;
In 2008, Maher starred in a spoof [[documentary]] movie called ''[[Religulous]]''. It was directed by [[Larry Charles]] (who also directed ''[[Borat]]'').  The film derives its name from a combination of the words &amp;quot;religion&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;ridiculous&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0708/14/lkl.01.html CNN LARRY KING LIVE, Interview With Bill Maher, aired August 14, 2007 - 21:00ET]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;.  Originally destined for an [[Easter]] 2008 release, the film had a limited theater-release in [[October]] 2008 after being first shown at the [[Toronto]] International Film Festival in early [[September]] 2008&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815241/releaseinfo IMDb: Release dates for ''Religulous'']&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The film criticizes [[religion]], particularly Christianity and to a lesser extent Judaism and Islam.  To Maher, radical Islam and its hate-filled terrorism has no difference from regular religious worship, as he blends pictures of the attack on the World Trade center with a benediction by the Pope and Jews praying at the Wailing Wall at the very end of the movie.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the film, Maher explains his stance on religion as he interviews the faithful from mainstream religions as well as from many lesser known [[cult]]s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some individuals featured in the film&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.tiff07.ca/filmsandschedules/filmdetails.aspx?ID=707111610451386 RELIGULOUS: A Conversation with Bill Maher and Larry Charles]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; include:&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Judaism|Hasidic]] scholars&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Jesus]] impersonators&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Messianic_Judaism|Messianic Jews]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Islam|Muslims]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints#Polygamy|Polygamists]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Satanism|Satanists]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Young Earth Creationism|Creationists]]&lt;br /&gt;
*Recreational users of [[cannabis]]&lt;br /&gt;
*A US senator who believes in the &amp;quot;[[Rapture]]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Raelism|Rael]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Box office performance===&lt;br /&gt;
The film made $3.5 million in its opening weekend&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&amp;amp;id=religulous.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; in a limited release, surpassing expectations.  It never did break out though after that and appears to be heading for a total gross of about $13 million.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Controversy===&lt;br /&gt;
The already controversial film gained increased notoriety on the morning of 30th September 2008 when Bill Maher made an appearance on the View to promote ''Religulous''. Maher frivolously suggested during the interview that anyone who hears the &amp;quot;voice&amp;quot; of God should check themselves in to a psychiatric hospital.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/30/sherri-shepherd-bill-mahe_n_130581.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://dir.salon.com/ent/tv/feature/2001/08/01/maher/index.html Is Bill Maher a libertarian? by Dann Halem]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18224 Bill Maher Owes Another Apology] - A war veteran responds to Maher's anti-military comments&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.aim.org/aim_column/A3735_0_3_0_C/ Is Bill Maher the Jane Fonda of the Iraq War?] - Another response to Maher's anti-military comments&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.aim.org/wls/author/bill-maher/ What Liberals Say - Bill Maher], [[Accuracy In Media]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0815241/ ''Religulous''] at IMDB.com&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Maher, Bill}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Liberal Activists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Socialists]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Comedians]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Actors]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Authors]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Agnostics]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Liberalism}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Jwilhem</name></author>
	</entry>
</feed>