Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Gabrielle Giffords

2011-01-08T20:01:01Z

JaneX: Created page with "==Reverted text== Reports say that she is still in surgery. I pray for her and hope to God that we do not have to replace the text that I reverted. ~~~~"

==Reverted text==

Reports say that she is still in surgery. I pray for her and hope to God that we do not have to replace the text that I reverted. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 15:01, 8 January 2011 (EST)

Gabrielle Giffords

2011-01-08T19:59:23Z

JaneX: Undo revision 838703 by Chippeterson (talk)

{{Officeholder
|name=Gabrielle Giffords
|image=G000554.jpg‎
|party=[[Democrat]]
|spouse=Jim Kolbe
|religion=Jewish
|offices=
{{Officeholder/representative
|state=Arizona
|district=8th
|terms=January 3, 2007 - Present
|preceded=Mark E. Kelly
|former=n
|succeeded=
}}

}}

'''Gabrielle Giffords''' (born June 8, 1970 in Tucson, Arizona) currently serves as the [[Democrat]]ic U.S. Representative from [[Arizona]]'s 8th congressional district, having been elected in 2006. She is a member of the Armed Services Committee, Foreign Affairs Committee, and the Science and Technology Committee.

Giffords attended Cornell University and Scripps College in California. She was elected to the State House in 2000, and two years later became the youngest woman ever elected to the Arizona Senate.

==External links==
*[http://giffords.house.gov/ House website]
*[http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Gabby_Giffords.htm On the Issues]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Giffords, Gabrielle}}
[[Category:United States Representatives]]
[[Category:Democratic Party]]

Mega year ago

2011-01-01T21:51:27Z

JaneX: fixed ref list

The Mega year ago, often abbreviated as Ma of Mya <ref>http://geomaps.wr.usgs.gov/socal/geology/geologic_history/images/geologic_time_scale.jpg</ref>, is a useful shorthand notation for long times that is more concise than scientific notation. The time for geological events such as the formation of a mountain is typically on the order of a few Ma.
==Use==
Instead of "trilobites went extinct 251 million years ago" <ref>http://www.trilobites.info/lasttrilos.htm</ref>, one would write "trilobites went extinct 251 Ma". The use of "Ma" avoids word repeats when writing papers.

==References==

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Terms]]

Essay:Greatest Conservative Movies

2011-01-01T21:45:21Z

JaneX: fixed movie title, removed false claim

'''There have been many superb [[conservative]] films''':

#''[[Invasion of the Body Snatchers]]'' (1956), a science fiction condemnation of [[communism]].
#''[[The Exorcist]]'' (1973) (not for children), a portrayal of pure evil against a positive characterization of [[Christianity]]. It broke the record for movie revenue.
# ''[[Dark Matter]]'' (2008), a candid look at [[professor values]] along with problems associated with lack of assimilation; [[liberal]]s first praised the movie, but after realizing its [[conservative]] message then panned it.
#''[[Spider-Man]]'' (2002), which praises moral virtue (hard-working teenager, devout aunt and well-meaning uncle) and pokes fun at [[liberals]] (entertainers and journalist). Hero chooses [[abstinence]]. This was one of the most profitable films ever made.
#''[[Gone With the Wind]]'' (1939), which celebrates a strongly ''feminine'' heroine who is the antithesis of a modern [[feminist]], and held the record for top-grossing movie for decades.
#''[[Ben-Hur (film, 1959)|Ben-Hur]]'' (1959), celebrates honor and duty to family and country, with a pro-Christian ending, long held the record for the most [[Academy Awards]].
#''[[Expelled | Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed]] (2008) - [[Ben Stein]] exposes [[evolution|evolutionists]]' scientific and education system [[deceit]].
#''[[Hillary: The Movie]]'' (2008) - Citizens United film exposing Hillary Clinton. This movie led to the overturning of McCain-Feingold legislation by the [[U.S. Supreme Court]].
#''[[Indoctrinate U]]'' (2007) - The film exposed political correctness, racial and ethnic politics in the academic setting. <ref>[http://video.yahoo.com/watch/3624795/9994231 Indoctrinate U -Part 1/3, Yahoo]</ref>
#''[[Fireproof (film)|Fireproof]]'' (2008) - Highly successful pro-Christian, pro-marriage film created by [[Sherwood Pictures]].
#''[[Beauty and the Beast]]'' (1991) - A powerful and immensely popular antidote to [[feminism]], far better than the [[liberal]] movies churned out by [[Disney]] later
#''[[Titanic]]'' (1997) - Every life had value and the most powerful men gave up their seats on lifeboats to women and children first; the media and a young [[RINO]] are rightly criticized; broke the record in movie revenues
#''The Lives of Others'' (2006) (not for children) - This German-language film is a stinging criticism of the [[communist]] [[East Germany]] from a liberal perspective.
#''[[The Sound of Music]]'' (1965), solid family entertainment, perhaps Hollywood's last great movie before it turned sharply Left.
#''[[The Ten Commandments]]'' (1956)
#''[[Mr. Smith Goes To Washington]]'' (1939)
#''[[Star Wars]]'' series (1977-2005) - simple truths about the triumph of good over evil.
#''The Winning Team'' (1952), starring [[Ronald Reagan]] as a pitcher who overcomes his problems to help his team win. This was one of Reagan's own favorites.
#''[[King of Kings]]'' (1961)
#''[[Iron Eagle]]'' (1986)
#''[[On The Waterfront]]'' (1954) [[Marlon Brando]] plays Terry Malloy, who under the inspiration of a Catholic priest (Father Barry, played by [[Karl Malden]]), becomes a Christ-like figure. Betrayed by his brother and almost killed by the gang, he finds the strength to overcome and redeem his people from the slavery to the mobsters who run the waterfront. In stunning contrast to the liberals who kept silent about the Communist subversion in Hollywood, the film portrays the informer as the hero; liberal Hollywood never forgave director [[Elia Kazan]] for his stunning film. In real life, Kazan, Malden and screenwriter Budd Schulberg all testified before Congress, along with [[Ronald Reagan]]. Together they broke the power of the Reds in Hollywood.
#''[[Sergeant York]]'' (1941)
#''[[Knute Rockne: All-American]]'' (1940)
#''[[Ninotchka]]'' (1939)
#''[[Forbidden Planet]]'' (1956)
#''[[Rudy]]'' (1993)
#''[[The Prince of Egypt]]'' (1998)
#''[[Strategic Air Command (film)|Strategic Air Command]]'' (1955). Actor (and Brigadier [[General]]) [[James Stewart]]'s story of the real [[Strategic Air Command]] and its transition from prop planes to jet planes.
#''[[A Gathering of Eagles]]'' (1963). Illustrates duty, honor, and the burden of command.
#''[[Red Dawn]]'' (1984)
#''[[Harry's War]]'' (1981)
#''[[The Patriot]]'' (2000) (the one starring Mel Gibson, there are several other movies with this name)
#''[[Ladder 49]]'' (2004)
#''[[Rocky]]'' (1976) (perseverance and talent can overcome all odds)
#''[[October Sky]]'' (1999)
#''[[Amazing Grace (film)|Amazing Grace]]''
#''[[Bruce Almighty]]'' (2003)
#''[[World Trade Center]]'' (2006) (highlights the bravery of the firemen and police in [[9/11]])
#''[[Flight 93]]'' (2006)
#''[[A Man For All Seasons]]'' (1966)
#''[[Chariots of Fire]]'' (1981)
#''[[One Foot In Heaven]]'' (1941)
#''[[Quo Vadis?]]''
#''[[The Lost Weekend]]'' (1945) - illustrating the dangers of alcohol.
#''[[The Manchurian Candidate]]'' (1962, 2004 remake) (anti-communist in general, but with a swipe at [[Joseph McCarthy]])
#''[[The Green Berets]]'' (1968) - Vivid defense of our troops' conduct in the Vietnam War.
#''[[My Son John]]'' (1952). A small-town couple's world is turned upside-down by the discovery that their adult son is a Communist.
#''[[True Lies]]'' (1994), starring the future Republican governor of California, [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]. Teaches conservative values like marital loyalty, and political incorrect facts such as the fact that most terrorists are Middle Eastern Arabic speakers who don't value human life.
#''[[The Island]]'' (2005) Pro-life statement against cloning to harvest organs.
#''[[Evelyn]]'' (2002) True story of Irish father's legal struggle to recover his kids from an orphanage.
#''[[Shane]]'' (1953) Western about defending a homesteading family.
#'' [[Lean on Me]]'' (1989) A true story about combating drug use, violence, and contempt for authority while exalting positive values like academic achievement and family values.<ref>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097722/</ref>
#''[[Hero]]'' (1992) Even those with character flaws can do good.
#''[[The Day of the Jackal]]'' (1973) celebrates conservative values like honor and duty.
#''[[The 6th Day]]'' (2000) Pro-Life, Anti-Cloning movie Featuring Republican Governor [[Arnold Schwarzenegger]]
#''Ghostbusters'' (1984). Fitting satire of an environmental regulator.
#[[Facing the Giants]] 2006. Trust in [[God]], let him take over, and good things will happen.
#''Flash of Genius'' (2008) - the intellectual property of a hard-working, solitary inventor is promoted, and his children stuck by his side through enormous difficulties.
#''Oh, God!'' (1977) - Acceptance of God's calling is rewarded, the faithful are vindicated, and naysayers are proven wrong.
#''[[Courageous]]'' (2011) - Upcoming [[Sherwood Pictures]] film focusing on the role of fathers.
#''[[Air Force One (film)|Air Force One]]'' (1997) - Positively portrays a strong U.S. president who takes an uncompromising stance against terrorism. Includes positive material about family, authority, the military and sacrifice.
#''[[The Fellowship of the Ring (film, 2001)|The Lord of the Rings: the Fellowship of the Ring]]'' (2001) - Clear distinction between good and evil with positive themes of friendship, bravery, honor, sacrifice and overcoming temptation.
#''[[The Two Towers (film, 2002)|The Lord of the Rings: the Two Towers]]'' (2002) - Strong portrayals of redemption and good over evil.
#''[[Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World]]'' (2003) - Promotes many positive conservative values including faith in God, patriotism, duty, honor, respect for authority, discipline, bravery, sacrifice, and friendship.
#''[[The Return of the King (2003 film)|The Lord of the Rings: the Return of the King]]'' (2003) - Bravery, heroism, sacrifice and good ultimately triumphing over evil.
#''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe]]'' (2005) - Based upon the Christian allegory written by C.S. Lewis.
#''Coach Carter'' (2005) - Promotes the theme that graduating from high school and having proper moral values are more important than becoming famous athletes.
#''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian]]'' (2008)
#''[[The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader]]'' (2010)
#''[[The Seventh Sign]]'' (1988) - starring Demi Moore, a fictional account of the return of Jesus to usher in the apocalypse and judge mankind. Catholic themed movie has Demi offering her life for the souls of others.
#''[[Maafa21]]'' (2009) - the film explores the inception of [[Planned Parenthood]] as an organization created to destroy the Negro population. It exposes the words of its' racist founder [[Margaret Sanger]] and their impact on black genocide more than a century later. <ref>[http://www.maafa21.com www.maafa21.com]</ref>
#''[[Twelve O'Clock High]]'' (1949) - a thrilling movie about the heroics of fighter pilots during [[World War II]]; used as an educational film for management training seminars
#''[[Escape from Hell]]'' (2001) Drama about a doctor and near-death experience.
#''[[Waiting for Superman]]'' (2010) Documentary on the failed public school system.
#''The Hurt Locker'' (2008) - A look into the life of an American bomb disposal regiment in Iraq risking their life for their county, for the innocent by confronting evil. Rated R for violence.
#''The Tunnel'' (''Der Tunnel'') (2001)- Based on a true story a group of East Berliners escaping harsh Communist rule and hatching a plan to help others escape that same oppressive regime.
#''A Charlie Brown Christmas'' (1965) - The real meaning of Christmas is discussed, Linus quotes Luke 2:8-14.
#''[[The Great Global Warming Swindle]]'' (2007) - Exposing the greatest fraud in the history of science.
#''[[The Dark Knight]]'' Christian allegory with message of not giving in to terrorists.

== Debatable Whether Conservative ==

#''[[The Passion of the Christ]]'' (2004) -- downplays the [[Resurrection]],<ref>The original version of the film had no references at all to the Resurrection.</ref> and strength of Christianity and omits powerful angels; instead exaggerates triumph of evil; film had little lasting effect on public or its producer; portrayed nails as through the hands rather than through the wrists as depicted by the [[Shroud of Turin]] and confirmed by modern science.
#''[[It's a Wonderful Life]]'' (1946) -- falsely teaches that humanism is what makes life worthwhile; marginalizes faith with a cartoonish depiction and demonizes capitalism as sadistic and greedy.
#''[[High Noon]]'' (1952) -- Bill Clinton saw this movie 20 times, and John Wayne said it was the most un-American movie ever;<ref>http://www.brightlightsfilm.com/47/highnoon.php</ref> though susceptible of various interpretations, most of all it seems to scare people into wanting more government.
#''[[P.C.U.]]'' (1994) - college students fight back against a campus where the administration promotes official [[diversity]] awareness weekends and radical [[feminism]], [[vegan]]ism, and [[political correctness]] run amok, but a conservative group on campus is also portrayed just as negatively as the P.C. groups.
#''Pillow Talk'' (1959) - a classic starring Rock Hudson and Doris Day in which conservative values triumph over liberal ones. There are no distortions by feminist ideology. Indeed, in one scene a leading man slaps the leading lady, but then is beaten up by dimwitted bystanders for it!
#''[[Blues Brothers]]'' (1980) - comedy musical. A story of redemption, "A mission from God", raising money to save a Catholic orphanage. R-rated movie for vulgar language, slap stick comedy. Vatican approved. <ref>[http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/06/18/vatican-blesses-blues-brothers/ Vatican Calls The Blues Brothers “Catholic”, FOXNews, June 19, 2010]</ref>
#''The Way We Were'' (1973) - unique in the way that it appears liberal to liberals while unintentionally sending a [[conservative]] message to young women.
#''Grease'' (1978) - some [[conservative]] messages and no [[feminism]] or other [[political correctness]]; mocks [[public school]] and even [[television]].
#''[[Juno (film)]]'' (2007) - A pregnant teen rejects [[abortion]] and decides for an adoptive birth instead. But she does not do it for any moral reason. This movie promotes the idea that a teenage girl can do whatever she wants without listening to any man, including get pregnant and choose what to do with the baby. See [http://www.eagleforum.org/column/2008/mar08/08-03-19.html] for how this is pro-[[feminist]].

== References ==
<references/>

[[Category:Essays about Conservatism]]
[[Category:Hollywood]]

User talk:Tzoran

2010-12-29T19:40:02Z

JaneX:

<div style="position:absolute; z-index:100; right:10px; top:10px;" class="metadata">
{| class="infobox plainlinks" style="width: 100px"
|<div style="padding-top: 2px; text-align: center">
{{archivelink2|[[User talk:Tzoran/Archives|'''Archives''']]}}
</div>
|}
</div>
{{clear}}
Thanks, but I have some experience from editing wikipedia & other sites. Godspeed, Aaron

== Cheers! ==

Good job dealing with the vandals and general riffraff. [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 16:24, 10 August 2010 (EDT)
:Thank you (for your help especially)! There's certainly been enough of it today... Ay. But! I'm doing my best. [[User:Tzoran|Tyler Zoran]] [[User talk:Tzoran|Talk]] 16:26, 10 August 2010 (EDT)

==Reverting a block==
Had to revert your block on user Kupochama, as he did not engage in hostility. If he's got honorable intentions, we'll let him contribute. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 15:38, 11 August 2010 (EDT)
:Sorry about that, Karajou; I saw his edit comment and decided based on that. [[User:Tzoran|Tyler Zoran]] [[User talk:Tzoran|Talk]] 15:39, 11 August 2010 (EDT)

==Email==

I meant to let you know that I'd sent you an email, but days have a funny way of running away with free time. No rush on checking it, of course, but I just wanted to let you know. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 13:51, 29 December 2010 (EST)
:Thank you for letting me know, Jane. I just saw your email, but I'll apologize right now for the several days it will take me to reply. Unfortunately I'm quite busy at the moment (see my user page, I describe my current work/school schedule). Any day that currency markets are open and trading is a busy one for me, and if you're unaware, currency markets are open for trading ''every'' day. I'll do my best to respond to you this weekend, make no mistake. Thank you! [[User:Tzoran|Tyler Zoran]] [[User talk:Tzoran|Talk]] 14:27, 29 December 2010 (EST)

::Take your time reading it and responding, it's not going anywhere. I hope you get a moment of relaxation, not to respond to the email, but for yourself! [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 14:40, 29 December 2010 (EST)

User talk:Tzoran

2010-12-29T18:51:01Z

JaneX:

Talk:Women in combat

2010-12-04T17:15:27Z

JaneX: Citation?

==Citations?==

The first two sentences could really use a citation, since it states that it's been proven. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 12:15, 4 December 2010 (EST)

Broken Arrow

2010-12-02T16:04:39Z

JaneX: copy edit

In '''Broken Arrow''' the protagonist/narrator says, "Funny, it never occurred to me that an Apache woman would cry over her son like any other woman."
This quote brings to mind the lesson [[Mark Twain]] has [[Huckleberry Finn]] learn from Jim about how "even" black slaves have human feelings just as deep a parental love as whites. An idea perhaps taken for granted now, but revolutionary then and there (19th century America).

*... a great western classic that broke new ground when it was released in 1950. Delmer Daves directs this film with an understanding and empathy for the Native American Indians who slowly watched a sea of pioneers and soldiers take over the territories that were once their exclusive domain and livelihood. By 1870 a bloody battle led by the Apache leader Cochise (Jeff Chandler) had been raging in Arizona for over ten years. Jim Jeffords (James Stewart), an ex-army scout, discovers a wounded Apache youth and while the boy attempts to stab him, Jim stays with him until his wounds are healed. When a party of Apaches comes to fetch the youth, they allow Jim to live and he is amazed to discover they are not "animals." The incident makes such an impact on Jim...he learns the Apache customs and language and with a guide to show him the way, he rides into the camp of Cochise. After a while a strong bond is formed...Cochise allows the mail to go through and eventually there is talk of a peace treaty. This was one of the first westerns to show that evil and deception occur on both sides...not all Indians are bad nor are they all good...they are no different from the white men. James Stewart is great but it is Jeff Chandler as Cochise who steals the film. [http://www.netflix.com/WiMovie/Broken_Arrow/70065051?trkid=1481020]

==Plot==

Jeffords sees vultures, follows them to find a wounded Apache boy. He risks being stabbed to give the boy water from his own canteen, then removes the buckshot from the boy's back. He is then captured by Apaches who agree to let him go but recapture him when a party of white prospectors approaches. They kill some prospectors, but capture and torture others as Jeffords watches. Released, Jeffords tells his story in town, which provokes a quarrel which ends without gunplay only because Jeffords is tired of the killing. Jeffords turns down a scouting job, deciding on his own to take advanced lessons in Apache language and culture so he can meet Cochise (the Apache leader) and request safe passage for the U.S. mail. He rides into the Apache stronghold, watched all the way by armed Apaches, and his meeting with Cochise goes well. He returns to town and announces the agreement and even bets $300 that the first 5 mail riders to be sent out will return safely.

==Points to ponder==

This movie asks us to consider what it means to be "civilized" or "savage".

[[category:movies]]

Peter Roskam

2010-12-02T04:56:15Z

JaneX: fixed spelling

'''Peter Roskam''' is a [[Republican]] [[congressman]] representing the Illinois-6th district. He gained national recognition in the 2006 congressional election, when he defeated favorite Democrat [[Tammy Duckworth]] on a local-issues and patriotic campaign. Because of his refusal to not hold in-person town hall meetings, commentators such as [[Glenn Beck]] have questioned whether he is a "progressive Republican."<ref>[http://www.thefoxnation.com/glenn-beck/2010/01/27/beck-shreds-klein-calling-americans-dumb"Beck Shreds Klein for Calling Americans Dumb"].</ref>
{{reflist}}

{{DEFAULTSORT: Roskam, Peter}}

[[Category:United States Elected Officials]]

Sinclair Lewis

2010-11-30T03:45:39Z

JaneX: copy edit

'''Sinclair Lewis''' was an American novelist of the jazz age. His writing style was realist/modernist. He won the Pulitzer Prize (which he refused, claiming that the prizes awarded to authors stifled individuality) for his 1925 novel ''Arrowsmith'', then in 1930 became the first American to win the Nobel Prize for Literature (which he accepted), for his 1922 novel ''[[Babbitt]]''. Lewis also wrote ''Main Street'', a satire of small-town ''petit-bourgeois'' America as dull, narrow-minded and hypocritical; ''[http://www.answers.com/topic/elmer-gantry-criticism Elmer Gantry]'', the story of a corrupt and materialistic [[minister]]; and ''[[It Can't Happen Here]]'', a cautionary tale of the coming of fascism to the United States.

Lewis studied at [[Yale University]], becoming an [[atheist]]<ref>"[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,881224,00.html Religion: Atheist's Oath]," ''Time'', August 20, 1928</ref> and "card-carrying [[socialist]]." He lived for a time at "a sort of [[commune]]" started by [[Upton Sinclair]], the future Socialist Party candidate for governor of California. When [[Jack London]], the socialist candidate for mayor of Oakland, California, went to Yale to speak for socialism, Lewis met him.<ref>Gore Vidal, "[http://www.nybooks.com/articles/2805 The Romance of Sinclair Lewis]," ''The New York Review of Books'', Vol. 39, No. 16 (October 8, 1992)</ref>

By 1909 Lewis was at the [http://www.carmelcalifornia.com/index.cfm/carmel_artist_colony.htm artists' colony] in Carmel, California, along with his classmate William Rose Benét. Benét would be one of 50 "dupes and fellow travelers" featured by ''Life '' magazine attending the 1949 "Cultural and Scientific Conference for World Peace," hosted by the [[Communist-front]] National Council of Arts, Sciences, and Professions, "dominated by intellectuals who [[fellow traveller|fellow-travel]] the [[Communist]] line," attended by delegates from [[USSR|Russia]], Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Yugoslavia, and providing "a sounding board for Communist [[propaganda]]."<ref>"[http://books.google.com/books?id=U04EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q=&f=false Dupes and Fellow Travelers Dress Up Communist Fronts]," ''Life'', vol. 26, No. 14, (April 4, 1949), p. 43</ref>

Lewis was very heavily influenced by [[George Bernard Shaw]].<ref>Martin Bucco, "[http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/annual_of_bernard_shaw_studies/v021/21.1bucco.html Bernard Shaw in Sinclair Lewis], ''SHAW The Annual of Bernard Shaw Studies'', Volume 21, 2001, pp. 133-141</ref>

==Notes==
{{reflist}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Lewis, Sinclair}}
[[Category:Authors]]
[[Category:Nobel laureates in Literature]]

Lord of the Flies

2010-11-27T00:43:38Z

JaneX: The quoted text is humanity, not inhumanity.

'''''The Lord of the Flies''''' is a depressingly realistic novel by [[William Golding]]. "A plane full of British schoolboys crashes on a Deserted Island, and the darkness of humanity spills forth as they turn against each other." <ref>[http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LordOfTheFlies]</ref>

== References ==

{{reflist}}

Maryland

2010-11-26T23:34:07Z

JaneX: typo

{{USState
|name=Maryland
|flag=Maryland_State_Flag.gif
|motto="Fatti maschii parole femine" (strong deeds, gentle words)
|nick=The Free State
|capital=Baltimore
|language=None
|governor=Martin O'Malley
|gparty=Democrat
|senator2=Ben Cardin
|s2party=Democrat
|s2phone=(202) 224-4524
|s2email=http://cardin.senate.gov/contact/ Contact
|senator1=Barbara Mikulski
|s1party=Democrat
|s1phone=(202) 224-4654
|s1email=http://mikulski.senate.gov/Contact/contact.cfm Contact
|population=
|date=April 28, 1788 (7th)
}}
Maryland is bordered to the north by [[Pennsylvania]], to the east by [[Delaware]], to the south by [[Virginia]] and the [[District of Columbia]], and to the west by [[West Virginia]]. It has a total area of 12,192.97 square miles.<ref>http://www.maryland.gov/</ref>

==History==
The '''Colony of Maryland''' was established by [[Lord Baltimore]] as a haven for [[Catholicism|Catholics]], as [[England]] was mostly [[Protestantism|Protestant]]. [[Judaism|Jews]] also enjoyed freedom in Maryland. [[Lord de la War]] (also one of the possible origins of the name [[Delaware]]) was one of Maryland's early leaders.

Maryland won its independence from [[Britain]] in the [[American Revolution|American War for Independence]] in 1783.

In the 1850's America's parties realigned: Whigs disappeared while Republicans and Democrats struggled over sectionalism and anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant nativism. In the South, including Maryland, sectionalism appealed to rural voters and nativism to urban. Nativism was weaker than in the North because the South attracted fewer immigrants. Nevertheless, the nativist American (Know-Nothing) Party captured the Baltimore government in 1854. The party used patronage and, especially, coercion; its armed forces scared off Democratic voters and forced drunks and immigrants to vote multiple times. The party elected a congressman and governor during its short reign. In 1860 the Democrat-controlled legislature took back the city police, the militia, patronage, and the electoral machinery, and prosecuted some Know-Nothings for electoral fraud. By 1861 the Know-Nothings had split over secession.<ref> Frank Towers, ''The Urban South and the Coming of the Civil War'' (2004) covers Baltimore.</ref>

==Politics==
The current governor of Maryland is [[Martin O'Malley]](D) (2007- ). The capital of Maryland is [[Annapolis]], located in [[Anne Arundel County]]. It is subdivided into 23 counties and [[Baltimore]] City, which, as an [[independent city]], is in many respects the 24th county.<ref>http://www.maryland.gov/</ref>

==Counties==
*[[Allegany County]]
*[[Anne Arundel County]]
*[[Baltimore]], the city is independent of any county
*[[Baltimore County]]
*[[Calvert County]]
*[[Caroline County]]
*[[Carroll County]]
*[[Cecil County]]
*[[Charles County]]
*[[Dorchester County]]
*[[Frederick County]]
*[[Garrett County]]
*[[Harford County]]
*[[Howard County]]
*[[Kent County]]
*[[Montgomery County]]
*[[Prince George's County]]
*[[Somerset County]]
*[[St. Mary's County]]
*[[Talbot County]]
*[[Queen Anne's County]]
*[[Washington County]]
*[[Wicomico County]]
*[[Worcester County]]

== See also ==

*[[Baltimore]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{USstates}}
[[Category:States of the United States]]

Spoon

2010-11-26T00:59:57Z

JaneX: copy edit and clarification

[[Image:Spoon.jpg|thumb|right|300px]]
A '''spoon''' is an eating utensil characterized by its smooth concave surface (from the eater's point of view).

==Types==

There are various types of spoons, including soup spoons (a mid-size spoon with with a round bowl), dessert spoons (a mid-size spoon with an oval bowl), serving spoons (a large usually oval spoon used for conveying food from a serving dish to a plate or bowl), teaspoons (small oval spoons), coffee spoons (even smaller oval spoons), egg spoons (often made of horn), grapefruit spons (an oval spoon with a deep bowl and a sharp edge), and jam spoons (which have cutaways like a violin on each side of the bowl).

A [[spork]] is a cross between a spoon and a [[fork]].

==Other Uses==

A [[spoonerism]] is created when a speaker switches the consonants between two words. For example: "shake a tower" as a substitution for "take a shower." The [[Shel Silverstein]] book [[Runny Babbit]] is another famous example. [[Brad Pitt]] was recently criticized for calling his daughter Shiloh, on the grounds that it could result in an unfortunate spoonerism.

[[Category:Cutlery]]

Authoritarianism

2010-11-24T23:16:17Z

JaneX: fixed ref list

'''Authoritarianism''' is an [[ideology]] which affirms that individual rights and liberties do not matter and that the decisions of how society should be run should be left to a single [[dictator]] or a small group of elites. Authoritarianism comes in three main forms, although there could be others.

Some of the characteristics of authoritarianism include:

*A centralized government which attempts to gather all power to itself.
*Intolerance for dissent from official government positions.
*Large bureaucracies which become self-perpetuating, existing for their own sake rather than that of the people.
*Closed-door political decisions reached in secret.
*High levels of corruption.

==Authoritarianism and Liberalism==

While liberals frequently accuse conservatives of being authoritarian, the truth is that modern liberalism is far closer to authoritarianism. Whereas conservatism strives to minimize government authority and intrusiveness, in order to allow the [[best of the public]] to excel, liberalism encourages dependency on an ever-larger (and less efficient) centralized government. This, in turn, creates opportunities for corruption and [[cronyism]] to thrive. <ref>http://www.judicialwatch.org/news/2009/dec/judicial-watch-announces-list-washington-s-ten-most-wanted-corrupt-politicians-2009</ref> It also creates an environment in which those who differ from approved government positions in areas like [[climate science]] are censured and persecuted, and in which evidence for such dissenting positions is suppressed.

==References==

{{reflist}}

[[category:Political Ideologies]]

Cleveland Browns

2010-11-22T23:01:44Z

JaneX: copy edit

[[Image:ClevelandBrowns1.jpg‎ |thumb|340px|]]
The '''Cleveland Browns''' are a [[National Football League]] [[franchise]]. They are part of the [[American Football Conference]] and play in the North division. The team was formed on 1946 by owner [[Arthur McBride]], who held a newspaper contest to pick out the name for the team. The winning name for the team, the "Browns", was based on the name of popular Cleveland [[Coach (sport)|coach]] [[Paul Brown]].

After the 1995 season, owner [[Art Modell]] decided to move the team to [[Baltimore]] for financial reasons, even though the team had an extremely loyal following in Cleveland. Cleveland was later awarded an expansion team that began playing in 1999. In a unique move, the new team was allowed to retain the team name, logos, and history of the Browns, while the original team that relocated started fresh as the [[Baltimore Ravens]]. More than any other team, Browns fans hate the Steelers.

2010 stars and likely Pro Bowl candidates: 40 -Peyton Hillis (RB), 73 -Joe Thomas (OL), 16 -Joshua Cribbs (WR), 12 -Colt McCoy (QB)

==See also==
*[[Pittsburgh Steelers]]
*[[Cincinnati Bengals]]
*[[Baltimore Ravens]]
*[[American Football Conference]]
*[[National Football Conference]]

== Related Websites ==

*[http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/ Official Team Website]

==Source Material ==

*[http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nfl/clev/browns.html Browns History]

{{NFL Teams}}

[[category:National Football League]]
[[Category:Ohio]]

DCI Group

2010-11-22T22:43:09Z

JaneX: fixed typo

A strategic public relations (Lobbyists) group for the [[George W Bush|Bush]] administration. They are most famous for their popular [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZSqXUSwHRI YouTube video] mocking [[Al Gore|Al Gore's]] views on the issue of [[Global Warming]]. This single video led a massive corporate grassroots movement against the [[liberal]] Al Gore.

== References ==

[http://www.opensecrets.org/lobbyists/firm_reports.asp?txtname=DCI+Group&year=2005 opensecrets.org]

[http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2273111&page=1 ABC News]

[http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06215/710851-115.stm Pittsburgh Post-Gazette]

[[Category:Political Organizations]]

Hines Ward

2010-11-22T22:35:38Z

JaneX:

'''Hines Ward''' is a [[National Football League]] wide receiver for the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]]. After playing football collegiately at the [[University of Georgia]], he was drafted in the second round of the [[1998 NFL Draft]] by the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]]. He is the Steelers all time leader in receptions and has caught as of the beginning of the 2008 season, 65 touchdowns. He was named the MVP of [[Super Bowl XL]] when he caught five passes for 123 yards and a touchdown.<ref>[http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06037/650881.stm Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Jerry Micco, February 06, 2006, "Ward savors NFL championship and MVP award, Makes two key catches against the Seahawks"]</ref>

In September, 2010, Ward was appointed to the President's Advisory Commission on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders<ref>http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/09/16/president-obama-announces-more-key-administration-posts</ref>.

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External Links==
*[http://www.nfl.com/players/hinesward/profile?id=WAR179227 NFL Stats]
*[http://media3.steelers.com/team/player/49201/ Steelers Bio]

[[Category:NFL Players]]
{{DEFAULTSORT:Ward, Hines}}

Hines Ward

2010-11-22T22:35:19Z

JaneX:

'''Hines Ward''' is a [[National Football League]] wide receiver for the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]]. After playing football collegiately at the [[University of Georgia]], he was drafted in the second round of the [[1998 NFL Draft]] by the [[Pittsburgh Steelers]]. He is the Steelers all time leader in receptions and has caught as of the beginning of the 2008 season, 65 touchdowns. He was named the MVP of [[Super Bowl XL]] when he caught five passes for 123 yards and a touchdown.<ref>[http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06037/650881.stm Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Jerry Micco, February 06, 2006, "Ward savors NFL championship and MVP award, Makes two key catches against the Seahawks"]</ref>

In September, 2010 Ward was appointed to the President's Advisory Commission on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders<ref>http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2010/09/16/president-obama-announces-more-key-administration-posts</ref>.

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External Links==
*[http://www.nfl.com/players/hinesward/profile?id=WAR179227 NFL Stats]
*[http://media3.steelers.com/team/player/49201/ Steelers Bio]

[[Category:NFL Players]]
{{DEFAULTSORT:Ward, Hines}}

Template:PittsburghSteelers

2010-11-22T22:28:45Z

JaneX: updated roster

{| align="center" class="toccolours" style="background:white;border:2px solid rgb(193,193,193); text-align: left;font-size:95%;" cellpadding="10px"
|-
!colspan="7" style="font-size:100%; background-color: rgb(0,0,0); text-align:center; border: 2px solid rgb(255,255,255)" | Pittsburgh Steelers Roster

|-
| valign="top" | '''Quarterbacks'''
* 7 [[Ben Roethlisberger]]
* 4 [[Byron Leftwich]]
* 2 [[Dennis Dixon]]
* 16 [[Charlie Batch]]

'''Running Backs'''
* 27 ''[[Jonathan Dwyer]]''
* 34 [[Rashard Mendenhall]]
* 21 [[Mewelde Moore]]
* 33 [[Isaac Redman]]

'''Wide Receivers'''
* 81 [[Arnaz Battle]]
* 84 ''[[Antonio Brown]]'' KR
* 82 [[Antwaan Randle El]] PR
* 88 ''[[Emmanuel Sanders]]''
* 17 [[Mike Wallace]]
* 86 [[Hines Ward]]

| valign="top" |'''Tight Ends'''
* 85 [[David Johnson]] FB
* 83 [[Heath Miller]]
* 89 [[Matt Spaeth]]

'''Offensive Tackles'''
* 71 [[Flozell Adams]]
* 66 [[Tony Hills]]
* 72 [[Jonathan Scott]]
* 78 [[Max Starks]]

'''Guards'''
* 79 [[Trai Essex]]
* 73 [[Ramon Foster]]
* 68 [[Chris Kemoeatu]]

'''Centers'''
* 64 [[Doug Legursky]]
* 53 ''[[Maurkice Pouncey]]''

| valign="top" | '''Linebackers'''
* 51 [[James Farrior]] ILB
* 50 [[Larry Foote]] ILB
* 57 [[Keyaron Fox]] ILB
* 90 ''[[Thaddeus Gibson]]'' OLB
* 92 [[James Harrison]] OLB
* 55 ''[[Stevenson Sylvester]]'' ILB
* 94 [[Lawrence Timmons]] ILB
* 56 [[LaMarr Woodley]] OLB
* 97 ''[[Jason Worilds]]'' OLB

'''Cornerbacks'''
* 28 ''[[Crezdon Butler]]''
* 22 [[William Gay]]
* 23 [[Keenan Lewis]]
* 20 [[Bryant McFadden]]
* 37 [[Anthony Madison]]
* 24 [[Ike Taylor]]

'''Safeties'''
* 29 [[Ryan Mundy]]
* 43 [[Troy Polamalu]]
* 25 [[Ryan Clark]]
* 26 [[Will Allen]]

| valign="top" |'''Special Teams'''
*  6 [[Shaun Suisham]] K
*  17 [[Mitch Berger]] P
*  9 [[Daniel Sepulveda]] P

'''Defensive Ends'''
* 93 [[Nick Eason]]
* 96 [[Ziggy Hood]]
* 99 [[Brett Keisel]]
* 91 [[Aaron Smith]]

'''Defensive Tackles'''
* 98 [[Casey Hampton]]
* 76 [[Chris Hoke]]

''Rookies in italics''
|-
| colspan="2" |'''Coaches'''
*[[Mike Tomlin]] Head Coach
*[[John Mitchell]] Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Line
*[[Bruce Arians]] Offensive Coordinator
*[[Dick LeBeau]] Defensive Coordinator
|colspan="2"|
|}<noinclude>

<includeonly>[[Category:National Football League]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:Navigation box|{{PAGENAME}}]]
{{TemplateDoc|pages=Pittsburgh Steelers|purpose=Roster section|cat=National Football League}}
{{Parms|
}}

Block grants

2010-11-03T02:22:13Z

JaneX: fixed ref list

'''Block grants''' are [[federal]] funds provided to states without specific limitations as to how the money should be spent. States then have a wide degree of discretion to spend on various areas such as law enforcement as they think best, subject to a limited degree of federal oversight.<ref>[http://www.urban.org/publications/310991.html]</ref>

==References==
{{reflist}}
[[category:United States Government]]

Bone

2010-11-03T01:55:35Z

JaneX: fixed ref list

'''Bone''' is living, growing [[tissue]] made mostly of collagen. [[Collagen]] is a protein<ref>[http://folding.stanford.edu/download.html Protein & Folding]</ref> that provides a soft "framework", and [[calcium]] is a mineral that adds strength and hardens the framework. The combination of collagen and calcium makes bone the strongest material in the body. More than 99 percent of the body’s calcium is contained in the bones and [[teeth]]. Most of the remaining 1 percent is found in the [[blood]].

==Bone Remodeling==
Throughout life, bone is constantly renewed through a three-part process called remodeling. This process consists of reabsorption, collection, and formation. During reabsorption, old bone tissue is broken down and removed by special cells called osteoclasts. During collection, red blood cells bring proteins to the osteoblasts. During bone formation, new bone tissue is laid down to replace the old. Osteoclast and osteoblast function is regulated by several hormones including calcitonin, parathyroid hormone, [[vitamin D]], [[estrogen]] (in women) and [[testosterone]] (in men), among others.

==[[Osteoporosis]]==
[[Women]] are more likely than men to develop osteoporosis. This is because women generally have smaller, thinner bones, and because they can lose bone tissue rapidly in the first 4 to 8 years after [[menopause]] due to the sharp decline in production of the hormone estrogen. Produced by the [[ovary|ovaries]], estrogen has been shown to have a protective effect on bone. Women usually go through menopause between ages 45 and 55. After menopause, bone loss in women greatly exceeds that in men. However, by age 65, women and men tend to lose bone tissue at the same rate. While men do not undergo the equivalent of menopause, production of the male hormone testosterone may decrease, and this can lead to increased bone loss and a greater risk of developing osteoporosis.

==References==

{{reflist}}

[[Category:Anatomy]]

Ethelbald

2010-11-03T01:49:48Z

JaneX:

Ethelbald (also Æthelbald) king of Wessex (858-860),virtual ruler from 856; eldest son of [[Ethelwulf]]. On the death of his father he ruled [[Wessex]] whilst his brother [[Ethelbert]] ruled [[Kent]], [[Surrey]], [[Essex]] and [[Sussex]]. He married his father’s widow. Not much is known about his short reign, or his death. He was succeeded by his younger brother, [[Ethelbert]].

[[Category: English Monarchs]]

{{Nb english monarchs}}

Talk:Stephen Hawking

2010-11-02T00:18:10Z

JaneX:

==Divorce==

How would divorce influence his "promotion of his pseudoscience fantasies"? There's no causality, and unless the claim can be cited beyond simply stating that, "It's unknown," it doesn't belong on an educational website. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 16:51, 8 October 2010 (EDT)
:Good point... added references and removed the "it is unknown" bit. [[User:AndrewWi|AndrewWi]] 19:56, 1 November 2010 (EDT)
::I still don't think it's relevant because atheists and those who promote pseudoscience aren't the only ones who get divorced. How can we explain why John McCain has been divorced once, Newt Gingrich twice and Rush Limbaugh three times? The bottom line is, divorce is an ill that plagues society, and not one group is devoid of it. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 20:15, 1 November 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Stephen Hawking

2010-11-02T00:15:35Z

JaneX:

==Divorce==

How would divorce influence his "promotion of his pseudoscience fantasies"? There's no causality, and unless the claim can be cited beyond simply stating that, "It's unknown," it doesn't belong on an educational website. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 16:51, 8 October 2010 (EDT)
:Good point... added references and removed the "it is unknown" bit. [[User:AndrewWi|AndrewWi]] 19:56, 1 November 2010 (EDT)
::I still don't think it's relevant because atheists and those who promote pseudoscience aren't the only ones who get divorced. How can we explain why John McCain has been divorced once, Newt Gingrich twice and Rush Limbaugh three times? The bottom line is, divorce is an ill that plagues society, but no one devoid of divorce. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 20:15, 1 November 2010 (EDT)

Restore Sanity rally

2010-10-28T17:38:28Z

JaneX: copy edit

[[File:StewartColbert.jpg|150px]]

'''Rally to Restore Sanity''' is another attempt by liberals to counter the influence of [[Glenn Beck]] and the [[Tea Party Movement]]. The rally, scheduled for October 30th in Washington D.C., is organized by liberal comedians [[Jon Stewart]] and [[Stephen Colbert]]. The rally name is similar to Glenn Beck's highly successful [[Restoring Honor]] event. While Beck's rally was a serious gathering of citizens that are concerned about our country, the Stewart rally is to mock [[American]]s who support [[conservatism]], to joke, laugh and have good times just days before the [[Democrat]]s power and influence gets crushed at the polls on [[2010 Midterm Elections | November 2nd]]. Many of the left's supporters of the socialist [[One Nation]] rally plan to attend. The difference maybe that the people likely in attendance will be young students that make up the television audience of the comedians and not so much a union presence. Domestic terrorist [[Bill Ayers]] endorses the rally. <ref>[http://www.aim.org/aim-column/terrorist-ayers-endorses-stewartcolbert-rallies/ Terrorist Ayers Endorses Stewart/Colbert Rallies, Accuracy in media, October 26, 2010]</ref>[[Barack Hussein Obama]] has endorsed the rally.

==Sanity?==
Expect more of the same leftwing socialist advocates to put their support behind the rally. One of those groups attending is Students For Sensible Drug Policy. <ref>[http://ssdp.org/events/rally-to-restore-drug-policy-sanity SSDP.org]</ref> The group pushes the legalization of [[marijuana]]. Liberalism and sanity are opposites as there is nothing sane about promoting the use of drugs. Another discredited liberal group attending is [[PETA]]. <ref>[http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2010/10/stewart_colbert_isnt_there_a_b.html Stewart, Colbert: Isn't there a better way to restore sanity?, WaPo, October 26, 2010]</ref> The [[Huffington Post]] returns with transportation for 14,000. Government workers plan to march at the rally. In defense of their coworkers, government workers and their friends and family are encouraged to join up and march together for the "Government Doesn't Suck March." <ref>[http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2010/10/government_doesnt_suck_march_p.html 'Government Doesn't Suck' march planned, WaPo, October 25, 2010]</ref>

Per the Rally To Restore Sanity website,

{{cquote|Think of our event as Woodstock, but with the nudity and drugs replaced by respectful disagreement; the Million Man March, only a lot smaller, and a bit less of a sausage fest; or the Gathering of the Juggalos, but instead of throwing our feces at Tila Tequila, we’ll be actively *not* throwing our feces at Tila Tequila.}}

==See Also==
* [[One Nation]]

==References==
<references/>

==External Links==
* [http://www.rallytorestoresanity.com/ Official website]

[[Category:Comedians]] [[Category:Liberalism]]
{{liberalism}}

Foundation for a Better Life

2010-10-24T03:57:49Z

JaneX: fixed ref list

'''Foundation for a Better Life''' is a privately-funded [[non-profit]] 501(c)(3) organization<ref>http://www.values.com/about_us/faq.asp</ref> dedicated to promoting [[values]] such as hard work, honesty, ingenuity, and optimism, among many others.<ref>http://www.values.com/be-inspired/values</ref>

Its principal ad campaign is called "Pass it on," consisting of posters with images and inspirational [[quotes]] or messages from or about famous people, such as [[Henry Ford]], [[Thomas Edison]], and [[Albert Einstein]]. It is not affiliated with any [[religion]] or [[denomination]], stating that its values should "transcend any particular religion or [[nationality]]."

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Nonprofits]]

Talk:Hollywood values

2010-10-22T20:37:54Z

JaneX: /* Trainspotting */

==Possible Inclusions==

A few suggestions for the list, off the top of my head: Marilyn Monroe would be a prime (and notorious) example. Chris Farley, who's stated goal was to live and die like Belushi. Janis Joplin. Anna Nicole Smith. Freddie Prinze. Rock Hudson. And depending on how comprehensive you want the list to be, there's an almost endless parade of people who were more famous as part of a group than as individuals, such as Keith Moon or Dennis Wilson.--[[User:RossC|RossC]] 08:16, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:I did a search for Hollywood liberals and came up with [http://www.nationalenquirer.com/ this] website. On the front page I see that the cops are invertviewing Mary Kate Olsen about the suspicious circumstances in Ledger's death, David Copperfield has had two childred out of wedlock, Britney Spears is finally making it to her custody hearing to see if she can stay off drugs long enough to take care of her own kids, and Kiefer Sutherland is being let out of jail after a DUI charge. Hollywood values at their best! (Or should I say worst?) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 10:13, 25 January 2008 (EST)

If an MTV reference is frowned upon, I can hardly see a credible argument for references to The National Enquirer? It's not exactly known for its adherence to fact-based logic, is it? [[User:Misterlinx|Misterlinx]] 12:29, 25 January 2008 (EST)

:Why not? I bet they had articles on every one of the people we have in the article right now. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 11:21, 26 January 2008 (EST)

::There's a reason that tabloids are also known as "Gossip rags." [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 22:36, 26 January 2008 (EST)

The people putting these lists together do not seem to realize that in making a case linking "Hollywood values"--not coherently defined in the article, by the way--to early death or criminality it is not enough simply to cite examples; it needs to be demonstrated that these alleged consequences are ''more likely'' to occur to those who adopt these values than to the general population. [[User:Dadsnagem2|Dadsnagem2]] 11:19, 7 February 2008 (EST)

==Heath Ledger==

How did Hollywood values contribute to his death? [[User:TheGuy|TheGuy]] 04:49, 1 February 2008 (EST)

:It is clear upon reviewing [[User_talk:Fox#Heath_Ledger|this]] and [[Talk:Main_Page#Milking_deaths_for_political_gain|this]] that nobody has justified how Hollywood values contributed to Ledger's death. We all acknowledge that during his life he probably did take drugs and was a selfish individual, however there is no evidence that his overdose on legal prescription drugs was a suicide attempt or reasonably affected by his drug habit. Given that the example is used in the context of death ("Hollywood values are deadly. Some examples include:") then I think it would be prudent to remove Ledger's entry until sufficient evidence connecting Hollywood to his death has been found, otherwise we are just sponsoring gossip. [[User:TheGuy|TheGuy]] 07:22, 2 February 2008 (EST)

Of what significance is it that he was found naked in his bed? [[User:Dadsnagem2|Dadsnagem2]] 11:20, 7 February 2008 (EST)

==So?==

So? What does this article intend to prove? What is its thesis? Is this article intended to somehow connect the unfortunate deaths of some people who got too involved in drugs or alcohol as an indicator that hollywood films are a bad influence?
Is this article supposed to somehow connect these so-called "Hollywood Values" with liberal politics?
Last time I checked, Rush Limbaugh had had an embarrassing addiction to opiate painkillers, George W. Bush had admitted to a cocaine problem, and Mel Gibson had such a drinking problem that he was accusing "the Jews" of all the evils that had ever plagued him. These three men, for example, are CONSERVATIVES. Mel Gibson even functions as part of the industry centered in HOLLYWOOD. Why is good ol' Mel not mentioned in this article?
Is the anti-liberal bias in this article too overwhelming to include even one conservative who's had problems?
Or, as I suspect, is Conservapedia wearing the type of blinders that see any conservative's troubles with drugs or alcohol as a momentary temptation by the liberal side?

If you simply blame everything on your opponents, all the time, then you never have to think it through or acknowledge reality. Seems to be the basic M.O. here.

I, for one, fail to see how Heath Ledger's accidental death from combining the wrong medications (all of which seem to have been prescribed for him) as indicative of a "Hollywood Value" system. Well, I'm sure the response will go like this: "He was NAKED! Surely, nakedness is indicative of SOME evil-doing. After all, LIBERALS SLEEP NAKED! No God-fearing person should sleep sans pajamas!"

I'm disgusted.

[[User:Artiefisk|Artiefisk]] 14:34, 12 February 2008 (EST)

== What about Britney Spears? ==

Britney is a very famous person, and hasn't she been to rehab?
Shouldn't she be mentioned in connection with "Hollywood Values"?
Just a suggestion. [[User:MikeSchwartz|MikeSchwartz]] 20:07, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Not entirely accurate ==

This article doesn't really give an accurate definition of the phrase, 'Hollywood Values'. I don't really blame you, as it is very difficult, if not impossible, to accurately define it. I also made this point on the 'Liberal Denial' Talk Page, so I'll just copy the relevant part of what I said here:

This phrase means different things to different people. Simply Googling the phrase gives many different meanings. To some, 'Hollywood values' means exactly what Conservapedia says it means. To others, it is summarised as, 'Save a tree, kill a baby. Ban cigarettes, legalize pot. Screw the Iraqi’s, save Darfur. McCarthy is bad, Castro is good. Bush is Hitler, Che is a hero. Save the planet, live in a mansion.' To still others, it means being very egotistical, not very well grounded in reality, and not having a lot of common sense. To yet others, it's all about doing anything at all, as long as you're paid enough. And, by far, that is not a complete list of the various different things this phrase actually means to various different people. [[User:Urushnor|Urushnor]] 14:48, 13 February 2008 (EST)

It should also be noted that the meaning of 'Hollywood Values', according to some, is directly contradicted by what others mean by 'Hollywood Values'. [[User:Urushnor|Urushnor]] 14:50, 13 February 2008 (EST)

== Wikilinks ==

Why are all these actors, singers, etc. wikilinked? Do we plan to have articles on them all? I removed most of them at some point, but I see they were added back. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:26, 16 February 2008 (EST)

: I think it's valid for two reasons: it draws attention to the fact that CP doesn't yet have articles on them, and may make someone write one. Also, when an article is eventually written, the links are already there, so nobody has to go back and add them retroactively. If they're already there, you may as well leave them. [[User:EMorris|EMorris]] 15:25, 15 February 2010 (EST)
== Crime ==
For the crime section, please stick to actual crimes. Maybe there could be another section for offensive comments. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 14:48, 16 February 2008 (EST)
:TBH Roger, I think the linked [[Mel Gibson]] article covers it sufficiently, so - in Gibson's case at least - there's probably no need to mention it in the article at all. But perhaps you're right that there should be a section for those celebs who have demonstrated consistent/repeated immoral behaviour/outbursts but have stopped short of actually breaking the law. [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 14:59, 16 February 2008 (EST)

==Hollywood==

Why are musicians and athletes included in an article about [[Hollywood]]? [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 14:34, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I share Maestro's confusion. Can a sysop address this issue, please? I don't think I should just edit the article.--[[User:JArneal|JArneal]] 12:29, 2 November 2008 (EST)
:It doesn't do to be too literal. Hollywood obviousdly doesn't apply just to the motion picture studios in Hollywood, CA. The term is used in its broader sense of applying to the entertainment 'industry'. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 12:35, 2 November 2008 (EST)
::I suppose...but I wouldn't call that obvious.--[[User:JArneal|JArneal]] 18:06, 2 November 2008 (EST)

== What do we do? ==

Even if Hollywood values are in fact a problem, what can we possibly do about it? Make extramarital and premarital sex illegal? Or just force everyone to convert to Christianity? [[User:Blinkadyblink|Blinkadyblink]] 23:18, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== Bix Biederbecke ==

Not really a "Hollywood" star - Jazz musicians at the time were more liable to spend their lives in NY (as he did), Chicago, or New Orleans. Lots of jazz musicians, of course, had serious addiction problems, but it's not really intellectually honest to lump in struggling musicians - many of America's greatest jazz artists never made much money - in with wealthy movie stars. Remove? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 21:56, 5 March 2008 (EST)
:I just removed him from the list. [[User:Sideways|Sideways]] 20:05, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Who compiled this silly list? ==

Bix Biederbecke is hardly the only problem here. What about Brian Epstein? What did he have to do with Hollywood? What about Sid Viscious? Hollywood? I hardly think so. Richard Jeni suffered from clinical depression. Do you think that might have had something to do with his suicide? Clara Blandick was in pain and facing blindness. What has her suicide got to do with Hollywodd values? Sharon Tate was murdered by the Manson family. Why is she in the article? The circumstances of Virginia Rappe's death remain unknown and controversial. What has Heath Ledger's accidental overdose got to do with Hollywood or any other values? What has John Bonham got to do with Hollywood? The inquest into the death of Kenneth Williams returned an open verdict as it was not posibble to determine whether his overdose was accidental. In any case he was suffering from declining health and depression at the time.

This is extremely sloppy work. --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 22:33, 5 March 2008 (EST)

''Forrest Gump'' was not "a clumsy attempt to imply that conservatives have learning disabilities." I'm taking it out. {{unsigned|Grapes}}
:On what grounds? o.O [[User:NathanG|Nate]] [[User_talk:NathanG|my opinion matters?]] 19:56, 8 October 2008 (EDT)
::On the grounds that it isn't a clumsy attempt to imply that conservatives are conservative because of a mental disability. [[User:Grapes|Grapes]]

== Tate ==

Tate was murdered. How is that her fault? Maybe that part should just mention the Manson Family--a depraved group, indeed. [[User:Cisnon|Cisnon]] 22:38, 5 March 2008 (EST)

reply to the above criticisms (prior to Tate): [[liberals]] become so literal when it becomes a basis for censoring things they don't like. [[Hollywood values]] are not literally confined to Hollywood, California, and, by the way, things like depression and overdosing on prescription drugs are a symptom of [[Hollywood values]] and occur in that group in far higher percentages than the general public. Please, no [[liberal denial]] on this site.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:40, 5 March 2008 (EST)

As to Tate, I welcome more information before censoring it from the entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:40, 5 March 2008 (EST)
:Again, I think [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/censor censor] has a different meaning than [http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/delete delete.] Now, I'm no big city lawyer. Wait, yes I am.-[[User:PhoenixWright|PhoenixWright]] 22:44, 5 March 2008 (EST)

:: Riiight... So, any time any entertainer somewhere in the (English speaking?) world suffers depression or overdoses on drugs, whether legal or prescription, whether accidentally or on purpose, that goes to show that "Hollywood values" (whatever they are) are evil. Did I say sloppy work? I withdraw that. I meant stupid, religiously driven nonsense. --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 23:04, 5 March 2008 (EST)

:::Listing a pregnant murder victim as somehow indicative of "Hollywood values" is a disgrace. Sharon Tate did nothing to encourage Charles Manson to murder her; no aspect of her behavior or beliefs can excuse that, or played any role in it. Perhaps we should list her fetus as another sinner who deserved to be murdered? -- [[User:Factcheck|Factcheck]] 23:08, 5 March 2008 (EST)

==You're bloody kidding me==
Death is a value? Sexually-transmitted disease is a value? I have no clue what you're trying to say here-- That Hollywood is responsible for death and STDs? Or that actors somehow worship these two things? [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 10:08, 6 March 2008 (EST)

: You are clueless. Drug use and promiscuity are [[Hollywood values]], and they cause death.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:11, 6 March 2008 (EST)

::The paranoia in that comment aside, that still doesn't make death a value... Or disease, for that matter. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 10:18, 6 March 2008 (EST)

:::You're misreading (or misunderstanding) the entry, Bari. It doesn't say that disease and death ''are'' Hollywood values, it says that Hollywood values breed a culture that ''leads to'' disease and death.--[[User:RossC|RossC]] 14:03, 6 March 2008 (EST)

::::My apologies, it appears that you are correct... or at least you were, before the last grammar fix. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 14:53, 6 March 2008 (EST)

== Hypocrisy ==

Why was the new section Hypocrisy deleted? It was a fair point as explained eloquently at [[Liberal Hypocrisy]] I would have asked the reverting Sysop but the talk page is locked. [[User:JoeSoap|JoeSoap]] 10:35, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
:The context of Clooney portraying a US military officer was not explained. Please cease trying to attract my attention, and go back to your own website where I'm sure you will be much happier. [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 10:39, 17 March 2008 (EDT)
::Context has now been added. I don't have a website. But thank you for your concern about my happiness. [[User:JoeSoap|JoeSoap]] 10:51, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

This article is full of finger-pointing. I realize that Hollywood stars live lives full of questionable behavior, and I agree that they do not set good role models for all of the young fans that watch their movies and follow their lives, but we should look at our own lives, and not be so quick to point fingers like this. Shouldn't we be promoting forgiveness, as the Lord intends us?

: This isn't "finger-pointing", and of course forgiveness remains available to anyone who requests it. But we're not going to stand by quietly as certain values destroy people. Would you also object if we identified how smoking has killed many people who smoke?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:46, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

Well, perhaps finger-pointing was the wrong word. I'm just saying, we shouldn't piously observe Hollywood stars and forget our own behavior. I would not object to identifying the wrongs of smoking, but what I find a little silly is the big list of stars and their own individual crimes. I think a more general article would be better, and we should avoid a "more words is better" approach, like Wikipedia does.

: There is nothing "pious" about this. Values and lifestyles can cause harm just as surely as smoking can. Do we criticize anti-smoking statements as "pious"? Of course not. Highlighting the harm caused by [[Hollywood Values]] is not pious either. In fact, it can be scientifically studied.

: The individual examples, just like individual examples of prominent smokers who died young, are powerful and just as compelling as more-difficult-to-find statistics.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:22, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

To quote Aschlafly (look at the talk page for the Mathematics page) "Conservapedia does not take the childish approach of "more words is better." We strive to be concise as a good encyclopedia should. Godspeed." Perhaps this principle should be applied to this page. I think everyone understands that Hollywood values are corrupted. I don't see the need for a long list of people who have done wrong things.

== removal ==

How can you justify Tate being a victim of hollywood values? Please point to it? I dont want to get into an edit but you cant just add with the tag "because I say so"
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 21:05, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

: It's self-evident from the explanation given. Tate was not a perpetrator of the crime, but became a victim of the culture in which she joined.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:30, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

No it is not self evident. What culture did she join? married a film director? Associated with hippies? If that so then she was a victim of hippies values. Her 'culture' lead her to be murdered? many people get murdered and she was targeted because she was famous. That has nothing to do with so called holloywood values.
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 21:57, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

Right removing the Tate stuff again. At the time of the murder Sharon Tate has not been using drugs or alcohol, she was pregnant and the Mason family was actually interested in killing a man who refused to sign his band up. Tate was unlucky but it is clearly at odds with other deaths listed with hers as she was murdered!
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 23:55, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

: Wow: Tate's murder was just the product of chance, like getting hit by a car! No, AdenJ, Tate's murder was the result of [[Hollywood values]]. Maybe the initial intended victim was someone else, but that reinforces how [[Hollywood values]] work that they killed her instead. The entry is staying in.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:06, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

I give up, its totally ridiculous. Sharon Tate was murdered, It was nothing, repeat, NOTHING to do with values. Unless its the values of Manson.
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 21:23, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

: AdenJ, Tate's murder had ''everything'' to do with values. And, duh, that does include the [[Hollywood values]] of Manson and his followers.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:26, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

So its 'duh' now is it? How did Mason have hollywood values? He was in no movies and was a poor musician. How was he affected by hollywood values? Because he was obessed with The Beatles? Who wasnt at that time. He was a drug crazed hippie with a severe mental problem.
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 21:31, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

I thought the parents of Jamie Lynn Spears statement was accurate but it was removed in its entirety, just curious as to the decision.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 11:35, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
:Apologies - I may have inadvertantly removed this while dealing with vandalism. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 11:38, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

==Ridiculous==

This article just cherry-picks famous people (or...not, in the case of "1920s cornettists" and similar cases), and stretches a granule, albeit a malleable one, miles and miles away from the true root causes of their deaths to make some point that these people's deaths are connected to some Spectre of Glittery Death looming up over Mulholland. How many famous people are there? There must be...untold millions of YouTube phenoms, game show contestants, sandwich shop spokesman, and to highlight a few flare-ups is entirely counter to any kind of legitimacy an encyclopedic volume should have. When I look at that list, I see Sid Vicious, who, as far as I know, lived in the UK for 98% of his life. I see Elvis Presley (maybe there should be a "Memphis values" page). And Sharon Tate...Sharon Tate? Wasn't Manson actually trying to kill somebody else, someone who wasn't there (supposedly a record honcho or someother such person who denied him a chance to be on a Beach Boys record). If that's how we're gonna be about it, and say innocent pregnant sober bystanders are perpetrators of Hollywood values, then let's say those whores that Jack the Ripper killed were victims of "West End values". [[User:LinusWilson|LinusWilson]] 18:23, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

: Linus has given us the fundamental [[liberal denial]]: denying that [[liberal]] values have consequences.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:04, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

Aschlafly has given us the fundamental conservative denial.
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 21:24, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

::'''I don't see anywhere in my graph where I denied that liberal values have consequences'''. I think that this whole liberal/conservative jive is basically a distraction, an abstract that exists only theoretically, and even then, as a theory lend creedence by consensus. If these people's death is going to be attributed to a set of industries in a geographic location, then it's already got the integrity of arguing about air temperature. Who cares? I'm not some objectivist/nihilist (probably mutually exclusive philosophies, but often combined nonetheless by people who don't understand them), so I'm not going to deforest the issue by going on some bleat about how we're all just "computers made out of meat" or whatnot, but I think this issue is...not an issue. I'm not arguing at it from any perspective other than one which states all perspectives are already invalid if it comes from a person who cares about things like this. So to say that anybody's neurons are any better than anyone else's simply because of the choices which all the electric 1's and 0's in our brains combine to create, is stupid. Even the whole idea of "liberal denial", which is supposed to be some kind of searing label which supercedes all the fray of bickering and mudslinging, has been trampled on by reductive childishness that's rampant here. Liberal denial. That's all your arguement is here. You'll say, I'm using liberal denial because what I'm saying is a denial coming from a liberal viewpoint. You define my point of view, incorrectly, sure, but you're still just defining it. Not '''re'''fining it, not clarifying or showing how it's wrong and maybe trying to excise the benign liberal tumors you probably surmise exist within my brain stem, you're just defining it. I should have taken a hint from the logo and realized that "applying logos" and "slapping labels" is basically the fundamental economy of Conservapedia. All apologies.
[[User:LinusWilson|LinusWilson]] 21:22, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
==Miley Cyrus==
see http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gYLnT2kyPIgNUurQ71aNM3EJKpRAD90ARTGO0
"They include shots of the teen wrapped in what appears to be a satin bedsheet, looking over her shoulder with her back exposed."

she was not topless-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|12px]] [[User:Deborah]] [[Special:Contributions/Deborah|(contributions)]] [[User_talk:Deborah|(talk)]] 21:34, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:That's your opinion and you are not an accepted reference for material. I provided not one, not two but THREE references that described the photo as "topless." [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 21:42, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::She was topless unless you are prepared to call a sheet a "top".

::Do we want to put our cards on the table people? Clearly the reason that some here do not want this addition to the Hollywood values page is that Ms Cyrus appeared on the Main Page here not long ago as an exemplar of Christian virtue when she spoke of her ambition to abstain from sex until marriage (if memory serves).

::Well, now she's been photographed topless. I'll bet if it were Hillary Clinton you would all be loudly insisting that the description "topless" was absolutely accurate. --[[User:ElizabethR|ElizabethR]] 21:44, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:::Er, no. What *is* clear is that her parents and Disney decided to let her be posed in as risque a fashion as possible - thus largely '''negating''' her value as a role model. My only objection is to the word ''topless'' which implies visible headlights rather than shrouded ones. Perhaps you'd like to right about teen [[role model]]s. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 21:48, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

::::As I said, three references described the photo as "topless." However, I've now clarified the extend of the toplessness in the article. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 21:50, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

topless requires that the breasts be exposed since they were not she was not topless -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|12px]] [[User:Deborah]] [[Special:Contributions/Deborah|(contributions)]] [[User_talk:Deborah|(talk)]] 21:49, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:*sigh* Jinx, you can say that some sources said the girl was topless. That would come under the heading of "exaggeration", I'd say. Unless the editor in chief overturns my decision, I intend to have us all avoid that word. Let's not embarrass the girl any more than she already has been. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 21:52, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
::That's pretty rich having regard to a number of the other accustaions and comments in the article. --[[User:ElizabethR|ElizabethR]] 21:55, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:No, it actually doesn't require that the breasts be exposed. Neither does "nude" require that genitals be exposed. Demi Moore was nude when she posed for Vanity Fair's cover when pregnant even though neither her breasts or genitals were exposed. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 18:08, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

I'm an easily lead, ignorant Christian. Tell me what change you'd like to see in the article - or make it yourself. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 21:56, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

Let's dial down the fuss a bit, folks. I was the one who originally posted the Cyrus line, and I didn't intend to start a war. I used the term "topless" because, a) that's the way I've heard it reported today, and b) it's accurate, strictly speaking. However, while I recognize that in common vernacular, "topless" implies a more explicit condition than exists in this case, I expected someone to come up with a better term rather than a complete (and unwarranted) reversion. So, maybe we can keep the item, but change the descriptive word? "Suggestive"? "Racy"? "Controversial"? "Provocative"? "Naughty"? Suggestions welcome...--[[User:RossC|RossC]] 21:58, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:I'm letting Deborah decide this one. (If you must apply an adjective, try "risqué".) Anyway, the emphasis should be on the parents, as she is a minor and not responsible for photo shoot decisions.

:We can write an article on how parents of teen stars, such as Britney Spears, Hillary Duff & Lindsay Lohan, have managed their daughters' careers. But do we have a decent article on [[Modesty]] yet? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 22:05, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
::All good suggestions. And don't forget Brooke Shields and her mother--They were a notorious pair a quarter-century ago (not that I'm old enough to remember such things [cough]).--[[User:RossC|RossC]] 22:28, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:::As a former Disney employee, I must say the company needs to pay more attention to its [[role model]]s for tweens. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 22:32, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
::::Call me cynical but I think it's just like any mega multi-national corporation, all that matters is the bottom line. And let's face it, sex (and abstinence) sells. You know back in the studio days women had to behave very nicely otherwise they'd be fired from their contract, then the supreme court broke them up and there went the Golden (or was it Silver?) age of Hollywood.
::::And anyway, shouldn't their '''parents''' be more concerned then a board of directors? '''---[[user:DLerner]]---''' 22:38, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== Lenny Bruce/Sharon Tate/Blaming the victim ==

While Lenny did die because of a heroin OD, he was a standup comic (Comedian Values?), not an actor he only appeared on TV six times on variety/talk shows, definitely not Hollywood. I'd like to believe the government's horrible persecution of him led to his downward spiral.

As far as the Tate case. Andy, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't familiar with the story, here is a [http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/manson/mansonaccount.html link to it,] '''if you still think that she did herself in because of Hollywood values, then ''by all means'' put it back in.

As for me, it makes me sick to my stomach to somehow imply that she was anyway responsible for her own death, that's worse then saying "well if she didn't want to get raped, she shouldn't have worn that low-cut dress".'''

And just to make sure you don't go off subject and say that I'm a typical liberal, I'll admit that I '''agree''' with the premise of the article.
'''---[[user:DLerner]]---''' 22:02, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:Goodness, no, we would never insult you like that. ;-) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 22:06, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

A little disgusted by the bit on Sharon Tate, I must say. Hollywood values may be partially to blame for her death, but it wasn't her HV or her husband's HV, it was the Family's HV. It reads like a cheap shot at a woman who was brutally murdered, or one at her bereaved husband (or both).--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 18:58, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

==Bruce Lee==

ATang, please stop removing this item. Edit wars are frowned on at CP, so I suggest that if you want it deleted you seek the advice of a sysop. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 14:29, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

:Bruce Lee died of cerebral edema. Traces of a painkiller and cannabis were found postmortem. However, the cause of death was not cannabis; ergo, the link between Hollywood values and his death was not established.

:Otherwise you should list every cannabis user who died, regardless of cause of death. For example - if a lone hunter was attacked by a black bear and died as a result, and they found traces of THC in his body, would you say that's the cause of death? That he died of drug use? Or that he died because of Hollywood values? (Now... if he got high and provoked the bear, that's an entirely different story...)

:[[User:ATang|ATang]] 14:33, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

:PS. Heh, I just saw what you typed. Merging the topics. (And I'm trying to avoid an edit war by pointing to the talk page)

::He was a cannabis user, and the health risks of cannabis are well known; even today (literally) the leftist British government has reclassified cannabis as a class B drug (from being class C, the lowest class of illegal substance, A being the highest). It is scarcely surprising that cannabis use - an HV practice in itself - may well have contributed to Lee's early death. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 16:32, 8 May 2008 (EDT)

:::Yeah, it 'may' have - but by the same argument, UV exposure or asbestos inhalation may have contributed to his death too. My point is - when the cause of death is not conclusive, you cannot point to one single factor. Cannabis is not known to cause swelling of the brain; until there is an established link between the cerebral edema and cannabis use, I don't see how HV caused his death. Like I stated before, you cannot list every death of persons who have Hollywood Values. [[User:ATang|ATang]] 09:37, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

==Rob Knox==
He died protecting his little brother from two armed assailants. If those are Hollywood Values, sign me up.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 17:38, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

I have to agree with Tom Moore on this one... There has been some mistake, just a misunderstanding.

[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2026826/Harry-Potter-actor's-father-Colin-Knox-visits-murder-scene.html "The father of a teenage actor who appears in the next Harry Potter film today visited the scene where the 18-year-old was stabbed to death trying to protect his younger brother from a knifeman."] [[User:Feebasfactor|Feebasfactor]] 18:30, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

: Folks, we need more than a few minutes to discuss something before deleting it like that. Some good new information is provided above, but some of it missed the point. No one is trying to blame the victim here. [[Hollywood values]] include carousing amid drunken people, and can often include underage drinking. Trouble breaks out and victims get killed. This doesn't happen as often to people who are, for example, sleeping by midnight. More comments welcome.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:04, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
::Hey, like I said, if Hollywood values include defending your little brother from being one of the many stabbed by a stranger with two knives, sign me up as a proponent.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 19:22, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

::: Well, that's not saying much, because I would expect you to have been a proponent before. By the way, before you jump to conclusions, do you know who brought Rob Knox's under-aged 16-year-old brother to that drunken, late-night mayhem? Or is that question considered inappropriate when the controlling standards are [[Hollywood values]]?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:28, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
::::I have no notion who brought him there. I am not sure it matters, since the problem there would be a young man bringing his under-age brother out on the town drinking, something that is relatively minor and which doesn't seem worthy of condemnation. But since you bring it up, do you know? If not, why did you put this up in the article before you found out?
::::Eh, who cares... it's your site.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 19:36, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
::::I looked, and can't find that information. I'll check the CNN report of the story.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 19:37, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
::::Nope, doesn't seem to have been reported. Although incidentally, while you're reading this, you might want to add to the News section that Bob Barr was nominated as the Libertarian candidate for this year. [http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/25/barr.election/index.html Story is here], and conservatives are probably interested.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 19:40, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

::::: The account the fight which killed Rob Knox is described differently from your accounts above here: [http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1204418.ece]--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:09, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
::::::I was going by the link above, wherein a stranger with two kitchen knives approached them and began stabbing people. This is a much more detailed account, but no less tragic. His friend thought a stranger had stolen his phone and accused the guy of it, and later the guy comes back with some friends, one of whom starts stabbing people.
::::::At the very least, this change to the article is in very bad taste so soon. But again, you own this place, so I guess you get to make that final call. I obviously disagree with the whole premise of the article, so I don't expect you to take my views much to account on the matter.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 20:14, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

::At best, it's a weak example that doesn't serve the broad thrust of your argument particularly well. As charity decreases, it looks variously: inappropriate -> ridiculous -> mean-spirited. If you insist on keeping it, I'd suggest making a new section and leading in with the kind of qualifications you made above. --[[User:Leda|Leda]] 20:22, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

:: I'm seeking the truth just as others should be here, and there is obviously more to the Rob Knox tragedy than the simple story that you insisted upon above. According to the more detailed account, the fight was expected. Note also that the victim's under-aged brother is an Olympic-level expert in karate, and that the fight was in or around a bar after midnight. This is still a terrible tragedy, to be sure, but values undeniably played a role in it, as in deaths from drunken driving. We'll say prayers for the victims '''and''' speak out against the causes. Liberals do neither.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:26, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

A young man who has played a minor role in a movie is stabbed to death in London, and within hours of his death you add him to this page as an example of "Hollywood values". That is '''vile'''. I do not know the details of the case, but nor do you, and nor does anyone. Someone has just been arrested, and the facts are simply not known. Jumping to conclusions like this, and acting with unseemly haste to use the Knox family's tragedy as fuel for your anti-Hollywood/anti-liberal campaign is disgusting. Please delete this appalling addition to the article. It does not do the Conservapedia image any good at all. [[User:Humblpi|Humblpi]] 08:29, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
:There's probably a name for those who make capital out of the suffering of others. Oh yes - SCUM! [[User:WarrenG|WarrenG]] 08:31, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

I would like to reopen the dabate to remove Knox's name from this list, whilst I have issue with the page as a whole and other entries, I feel that this in particular is a totally unwarranted addition. If for no other reason than it detracts from the article's thrust as there is no evidence that Knox ever exibited any 'Hollywood values'. All you seem to be basing this assertion on is the facts that a) he was an actor and b) he was at a pub when he was murdered. He was not under-age drinking (as he was 18, and there is no evidence both cited or that I can uncover that he was drinking alcohol at all). Although not outside the realms of possibility, there is no evidence either to suggest he was encouraging others to under-age drink (added to the fact that his brother, despite being 17 at the time, could legally drink alcohol at that age provided an 18+ year old bought the drink).

For goodness sake this kid was tragically murdered, and I for one have no doubt that he now resides peacrfully in Heaven. [[User:j00ni|j00ni]] 19:05, 30 Jun 2008 (GMT)

==Chaplin==
I saw the addition for Chaplin under divorce and I wonder if it's not worth mentioning some of the large age gaps between married Hollywood types? Chaplin met his last wife (Oona?) when she was dating one of his sons. --[[User:JessicaT|JessicaT]][[User talk:JessicaT|''Ohayo gozaimasu!'']] 10:35, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

: Wow, that's shocking. Yes, please add that with a citation. (I should have added a citation for mine also.) Thanks and Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:45, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

::Thank you, will do so. I have it mentioned in a book at home, so I'll put it up later tonight, with a few other examples I know are in there. --[[User:JessicaT|JessicaT]][[User talk:JessicaT|''Ohayo gozaimasu!'']] 10:51, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

== Hypocrisy - all specious ==

Would someone please tell me what is ''hypocritical'' an actor "act[ing] in movies contrary to their public opinions"? Isn't that simply what actors do - '''act'''? This section of the article seems to be based on a very naive confusion of an actor's role-playing with his or her real-life views and actions. In its present form, I don't think it adds anything of value. [[User:Humblpi|Humblpi]] 06:05, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

: To a degree, you're right, but when an actor profits enormously by exploiting a sentiment which he simultaneously harshly criticizes (in appeasement of [[liberals]]), it begs the question: dude, if you think it's so wrong, then why do you profit so much from it?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 08:34, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::Not convinced. You seem to be saying that no actor should accept an offer to play roles like Shylock, Iago, or Hannibal Lecter. That would make for some pretty thin plot-lines... [[User:Humblpi|Humblpi]] 10:34, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::: No, you overstate it. A better example would be if a [[conservative]] starred in a movie featuring sex and nudity. The howls of protest by [[liberals]] would be deafening!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:55, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

::::But, [[Hollywood values]] embrassed by all [[Liberals]] would mean they were desensortised to this.

::::Actually could you explain this why would "liberals" be out raged, you have spent all this time saying they like that in their movies. People only seem to care about movies featuring sex and nudity when some former child star appears in them and news reporting go along the line "she (it is always she they care about) is sheading her innocent image". This might comes as a shock to you but most of the world doesn't think of actors as liberal/conservative and judge their movies on that basis. [[User:DanielB|DanielB]] 19:30, 3 June 2008 (EDT)

== At a certain point, it would probably pay to be selective ==

At some point I would advise to only use examples that best show the point trying to be made. For instance there are certainly many Hollywood divorces, but we have chosen to only point to a few that give the greatest examples of particular excess. Other areas of the article may wish to do the same. Drew Barrymore's stint in rehab as a young girl would be a good one. Ryan O'Neal thinking that Lee Majors telling him to look out for his wife while he was away on a trip meant to have sex with her would be another. Woody Allen's picture taking, the death of Dorothy Stratten, Morrison's burnout death and his girlfriend being beaten to death by a baseball bat by her next boyfriend, all would be notable examples. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 14:20, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Crime: Innocent until proven guilty ==

I think that there may be a certain level of contradiction here. Although we ''can'' use arrests as a way to suggest hedonistic activity of Hollywood stars, we're mentioning an accusation without proof they were convicted of the actual crime.

Perhaps we can delete and find other conviction examples. If not we can provide a reminder that we recognize that they are innocent until proven guilty. BTW: I'm not suggesting it's wrong in essence, but it could potentially confuse readers who are trying to understand things.
--[[User:Borneo|Borneo]] 05:34, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

== Is it just me, or is this a bit one-sided? ==

I think that this entire article, from the first line, is very condescending and even slanderous. This isn't an article about "Hollywood Values" (which I am convinced is a made up word), it's simply a list of drug deaths and crimes committed by people who happen to be / have been in Hollywood.

While the sources for the statistics are cited, perhaps it would be more appropriate to include interviews and quotes from Hollywood stars on their values. One could also delve into the history of Hollywood, and how it has molded the culture and values that are present there now.

If this is really an article on Hollywood Values, someone needs to gather up primary sources relevant to this topic. Otherwise, this article should be renamed "List of Bad Things about Hollywood People."

==Charity work==
I notice that a section on charity work has been removed. If entertainers are in fact sincerely raising money to help the needy isn't that part of their values and should be included in "Hollywood values"? [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 10:41, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
:No, because Hollywood Values are not the across-the-board-values of all who have worked in Hollywood. Do not be fooled into over-literalism, a crutch of [[Liberals]] who are unable to make logical pointsin debate. [[Ronald Reagan]] and [[Charlton Heston]] worked in Hollywood, and did a huge amount for good causes, but were a world away from 'Hollywood Values'. Try reading the article properly! Best wishes, [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 10:47, 24 June 2008 (EDT)
So, let me get this straight...

Only some liberals follow liberal style and every other article beginning with the word "Liberal"

Only some people in Hollywood follow Hollywood values.

So really, nothing substantiative is in these articles, and it's little more than a shoddy smearjob against the rich (Hollywood) and the Left.

Trustworthy indeed. [[User:EBrown|EBrown]] 10:49, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

So are you saying that "Hollywood values" refers only to the ''negative'' values of people who work in Hollywood, and that any positive values that might be held by people in Hollywood are ''not'' considered part of Hollywood values? Isn't that a bit biased? How would we feel if people started talking about "Republican values" but meant only the negative aspects? [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 11:20, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

:Daphnea and EBrown, you are hopeless cases. HV refers to the pernicious effects of the cult of celebrity, which leads sufferers to feel that they are above all legal, moral or societal rules. It is, perhaps, significant that you are quibbling with the title and definitions through the medium of an absurd literalism. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 11:29, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

:I assumed that "Hollywood values" would be about the values espoused by Hollywood; while that is largely negative in contrast with conservative values I feel it is only honest to mention the positive aspects when they occur; unless the article ''by definition'' is only about the negative aspects, which is the question I asked. I'm assuming from your reply that it ''is'' only about the negative values. Now I can edit it accordingly. When did asking for clarification become an "absurd literalism"? [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 13:32, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

I agree with Daphnea; it does appear that you are saying that Hollywood Values really are the "across the board" values held by many celebrities. And when you say "lack of morals and values in Hollywood culture", doesn't that suggest that Hollywood entertainers hold few of these, which of course isn't true. They may well not hold all values that you and I hold dear, but they hold many.

Also a few other criticisms:
¬Patriotism is listed as a value disrespected in Hollywood; however, the tone of this article suggest that these values are deemed desirable. Whilst you may argue that patriotism is a virtue (I will note that I don't agree), there are certainly Christian arguments against patriotism, and I think it is a bit shaky to use it as an example of something "good".
¬Is Narnia really conservative? I'm an evangelical, charismatic Christian from the UK, and I am convinced that Christianity is neither conservative nor liberal, but rather a mixture of both, slightly veering to liberalism. Yes, liberalism is associated with atheism (in the States, anyway); however, this says nothing about the essence of Christianity and the essences of liberalism and conservatism.
[[User:Trinity123|Trinity123]]

==Productions==
I put back a deleted edit after revising it on the advice of [[User:Bugler]]. [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 17:09, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

Please don't revert edits that '''you told me to do'''! To be a little more conversational, I was following an edit which was approved by another editor pointing out that not everybody in Hollywood goes along with "Hollywood values". Likewise it is sensible to point out that not all Hollywood productions go along with "Hollywood values". If we don't do this then in the first case someone reading this (especially a child) might go away with the impression that ''everyone'' involved in Hollywood is evil, and thus grow up hating Ronald Reagan and Charlton Heston. I the second case they might avoid seeing The Chronicle of Narnia because it's a "Hollywood" production. [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 17:18, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
:I didn't tell you to do it here, Daphnea. I said that the correct place for such a statement was on a page bout Hollywood, or about the entertainment industry. HV is not the same as Hollywood. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:20, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
:So what do you think of what I said above? Do you want people to start thinking Ronald Reagan went along with Hollywood Values? [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 17:22, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
::Add it to [[Hollywood]] [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:28, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
::I asked you a question. Are you intending to answer it? [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 17:31, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
::I will certainly not answer if addressed in so aggressive a fashion. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:32, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
::OK, let's be polite. Are you going to answer my question, please? [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 17:33, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
Yes. Naturally RR is not an example of HV, nor is James Stuart, or Charlton Heston, or Audie Murphy. Perhaps a line at the start to differentiate the industry as a whole from HV might be appropriate. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:35, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
: ... and in fact already exists. ''Not all people who currently work or have worked in Hollywood espouse Hollywood values. [[Ronald Reagan]], [[Charlton Heston]], [[Walt Disney]] and many others practiced conservative values while working in Hollywood''. That would seem to cover matters. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:37, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

::Good, good, now we're getting somewhere. You've just found out that there already is a line at the top pointing this out. I knew that already because I helped put it there. All I'm doing is saying the same thing about productions: just as not all people in Hollywood go along with "Hollywood values", not all productions do either. That's all I'm saying. If you like I can move the statement about the production up to the top of the article too. [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 17:40, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
::See, that wasn't so hard. Now all I'm going to do is add some production examples, because productions aren't always about who is in them; Chronicles of Narnia doesn't have an outstanding "non-Hollywood values" person at the helm, yet it reflects conservative values. Again, we don't want to give the idea that people should judge a production entirely on the basis of what stars are associated with it. [[User:Daphnea|Daphnea]] 17:45, 26 June 2008 (EDT)
:::The phrase 'their productions' refers (in my interpretation) to the 'many others' as well as to Ronny, Jimmy, Chuck and Walt, so I would argue that the sentences could be merged, but otherwise that is OK and in an appropriate part of the page. Thank you. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:49, 26 June 2008 (EDT)

==Divorce==
A story on Yahoo news backs up this articles assertions about Hollywood divorces. It is called "Want a successful marriage? Don't marry a celebrity!"[http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=8576056&ch=4226715&src=news]--[[User:Hurst|Hurst]] 13:25, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

== "Paedophile" movie producer Roman Polanski ==

The article describes Roman Polanski as a paedophile, referring to his charges of violating a teenage girl. Yet the article [[Roman Catholicism]] reads, and I quote, "''in truth 90% of the cases involved priests making overtures towards teenage boys, and not pedophilia.''" So do we claim that Polanski isn't a paedophile, or that the priests are? It's inconsistent. I've removed the paedophile claim from this article before, but it got re-inserted. [[User:MrGrieves|MrGrieves]] 23:02, 1 July 2008 (EDT)
:From a technical standpoint you are correct, although he certainly did seek out a very young girl when he could have chosen a woman of any age. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:54, 2 July 2008 (EDT)
::Creepy, but by CP's definition, not paedophilia. I see the inconsistency is still there.--[[User:Frey|Frey]] 19:43, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

==Bruce lee==

I had removed his name from the list because the people there were included because of the assertion that "Hollywood Values" had something to do with their deaths. Lee's cerebral edema was completely unrelated to his lifestyle, and the presence of cannabis in his bloodstream had nothing to do with his death. If you want to add his name to a list of people who use cannabis that's fine, but he should ''not'' be on this "cause of death" list. I'd suggest that anyone who thinks Bruce Lee represents the stereotype of "Hollywood Values" on this page should read ''Striking Thoughts: Bruce Lee's Wisdom for Daily Living'' first, and then reconsider. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 11:19, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

: There's a whole industry of people who have a financial interest in denying that illegal drugs played a role in an unexpected death of a healthy, young person like Bruce Lee. They're right that the link may not be proved. They're wrong to try to censor the possibility. We provide the information and let the reader decide.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:37, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

::I'm not taking issue with the other names on the list, but in this specific case like this I have to disagree. The coroner confirmed the cause of death, and unless there is verifiable medical evidence to prove that his death was cannabis-related, implying that this was the case is misleading. Conservapedia is supposed to be a trustworthy encyclopedia, and articles like this need to be based on facts like medical autopsies, and not innuendo. There are enough valid entries on the list to not have to add those based on unfounded speculation as well. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 12:20, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

==Sexually Transmitted Diseases==

We note that one characteristic of hollywood values are rampant sexually transmitted diseases. we need a section on this to support the claim. For example: Rock Hudson and AIDS, Paris Hilton and herpes (herpes medication was found in storage that she defaulted payment on) --[[User:Ank|Ank]] 14:41, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

''Freddie Mercury also contracted AIDS through his homosexual lifestyle and flamboyant onstage presence.''
One cannot contract AIDS through a flamboyant onstage presence. I'll leave it to someone else to straighten this one out.--[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 19:44, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

== Proposed new section: "Shunning actors who disagree with Hollywood's values" ==

The recent hubbub over John Voight's comments about Obama is just the latest in a long line of Hollywood attacks on anyone who dares use their freedom of speech to disagree with Hollywood's far-left ''status quo''. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 00:12, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

:This would appear to be a valid subsection. The treatment of Charlton Heston comes to mind. As President of an organization that has the support of most Americans (although it obviously has its detractors) you would think by the way he was attacked that he was head of the KKK. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:51, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

==How to write an article==

Never imply that a sweeping condemnation of liberal evils is "wrong" or "exaggerated". The intro to this article, until I corrected it just now, had implied that Reagan, Disney, et al., were counterexamples which disproved the thesis.

I rewrote it to show that these men were trying to push back the tide.

(If you disagree with a critique of liberal values or actions, discuss it on the talk page - do not distort the truth. And in the rare case where a conservative writer appears to make an error, contact him for a clarification FIRST. Keep in mind the purpose of the project whenever you edit an article or comment on it. Debates and declarations of personal values are confined to debate pages and user pages.)

== Renaming suggestion ==

The title is somewhat inaccurate and potentially misleading since it seems to be applied to all sorts of celebrities (not just people in the movie industry) all around the globe (most recent case being the current main page headline accusing two English singers and an English model of ''Hollywood'' Values). So maybe [[Celebrity values]] would be a more fitting location for this term. --[[User:DirkB|DirkB]] 08:21, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

:You've got the cart before the horse, Dirk; if celebrities outside the movie industry have Hollywood values, that shows how pervasive they are.

:Please write about the influence Hollywood has had on the world at large. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 09:18, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

::If they don't apply to all the people within Hollywood but do apply to a truckload of people with absolutely no connection to Hollywood, then I think we might as well call them '''American Values''' because "decadence, narcissism, rampant drug use, extramarital sex, sexually-transmitted disease, lawlessness and death" can be found pretty much in every corner of the country. And the fact that non-Americans are influenced by it only shows how pervasive they are. See, that's the "reasoning" I see here.
::I really don't want to be difficult, but I think this is a case of a poorly named "[[discovery]]" (which, btw, doesn't link to what you'd expect - could you move it?).
::I think these symptoms had been around before Hollywood existed (actually, I'd be quite willing to bet that they were around before America had been discovered), and some of the cases shown here have zero connection to Hollywood or even the movie industry (which is what "Hollywood" is usually a synonym of). They are, however, all ''celebrities'', and I can readily agree that ''celebrities'' are somehow more prone to strange and questionable behavior.
::And while I'm by God no fan of liberals, I'd guess that the explanation here is not that they're being influenced by some sort of "liberal evil", but rather that they don't have the [[willpower]] to cope with the fame and media attention. I'm not happy with how Wikipedia is slightly tilted in favor of liberals (especially during the election times), but this sort of demonization of liberals and glorification of conservatives is at least equally troubling.
::About that "writing assignment" (as you called it on my talk page), I think I'll decline. When I'm not working on Dean's Wanted List (for the News Project), I'm trying to fix existing articles. --[[User:DirkB|DirkB]] 14:12, 30 August 2008 (EDT)

==don't know where to put this==
This should probably go on this page, but I'm not sure what subsection to put it under, because it includes booze, drugs, divorce, child endangerment, rehab, ''and'' mental illness: http://www.ktla.com/landing_news/?Heather-Locklear-Arrested-on-Possible-DU=1&blockID=71448&feedID=171
--[[User:AngelaK|AngelaK]] 22:38, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

==OJ Simpson==

The part about OJ being "widely believed to have murdered his wife and her friend" should be deleted. We shouldn't try to appease little crybabies who long ago stuffed their ears with cotton to avoid hearing the truth. Just come out and say "he brutally murdered his wife and Ron Goldman" because '''he did'''. Nuff said. He's written a book outlining the "hypothetical" situation, there's overwhelming evidence, and he was found guilty in civil court. It's not fair to act like public opinion is the only thing that matters here, especially when his acquittal was only the result of exploiting anti-police bias and what basically passes judicial affirmative action. [[User:Mcliff|Mcliff]] 09:34, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
:It's not our place to accuse people. Only God and OJ himself know whether OJ did it, and neither of them edit this wiki. An encyclopedia states the facts, and the facts are that he was acquitted, even though popular opinion holds that he was guilty. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 20:19, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:: And it's not just popular opinion that says OJ Simpson murdered his wife and her friend. Scientific tests proved it with overwhelming odds.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:44, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

:::I hadn't heard that. I guess I din't really pay close enough attention to OJ news. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 20:52, 8 October 2008 (EDT)

== Actors, Actresses... What about the older shows ==

When I heard that TVLAND was going to air reruns of M*A*S*H*, I was heartbroken. I cannot find a single reference to how shows like M*A*S*H* encouraged bad behavior. In a moment, I will find a good website or book--[[User:CindyP|CindyP]] 17:01, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

==Independence Day==

Precisely what conservative or 'non-Hollywod' values are being conveyed in ''Independence Day''? It's OK to punch aliens if they want to raise your taxes? Sneaking diseases on board alien spaceships will prevent them from making us abort our children? Conspiracy theories about government cover-ups are actually all true? It really is a tremendously stupid film, and it makes no sense whatsoever as an example of a film without Hollywood Values. You might as well pick Pineapple Express, for all the sense it makes. [[User:BenHur|BenHur]] 15:55, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

== Another example? ==

I'm not sure if [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,478607,00.html?sPage=fnc/us/crime this] example is suitable for this article or not but i thought i'd suggest it. I'm not sure because i think the person in question worked mainly in New York. [[User:JamesDW|JamesDW]] 22:15, 11 January 2009 (EST)

== Michael Jackson ==

This is yet another conspicuous example and I have readded the entry for it. I do not understand why the entry was blanked when someone else had added it earlier (or was it because the claim about the drugs was not entirely accurate and came about due to media hysteria?). [[User:BillyD|BillyD]] 08:57, 30 June 2009 (EDT)

: This is an encyclopedia. Don't insert rants, or [[gossip]], or claims that lack proper substantiation. Clear enough?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:14, 30 June 2009 (EDT)

== James Dean ==

Could someone explain to me how James Dean's tragic death in an automobile accident was the result of 'Hollywood values'? [[User:EnglishBob|EnglishBob]] 17:07, 5 July 2009 (CDT)

:Dean was a reckless driver who had been ticketed for speeding two hours earlier, and was going at a high speed to cause the fatal accident. He ran into a car turning in front of him, injuring not only himself but others also.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:25, 5 July 2009 (EDT)

I understand that his driving record was far from acceptable and that he played a clear role in his demise, but I don't see this as directly attributable to Hollywood values. I belong to a staunchly conservative family, but I freely admit that relatives of mine have been reckless in their driving. Some have been lucky enough to escape deserved punishment, others have been ticketed. It saddens me to suggest that such behavior is rife in our society regardless of political affiliation. Thoughts? [[User:EnglishBob|EnglishBob]] 18:12, 5 July 2009 (CDT)

== "For years, fans of Hollywood get to watch the celebrities" ==

JPatt, there's some serious verb-tense disagreement going on in your reversion of me. What tense do you want the sentence in? 01:06, 24 January 2010 (EST)
:I didn't revert you and feel free to rearrange the grammar properly. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 01:08, 24 January 2010 (EST)

::Also feel free to sign your posts! It's the box above when you compose, next to the circle with the slash through it. ;-) --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 02:37, 24 January 2010 (EST)

== Brittany Murphy ==

I've just removed Brittany Murphy's name from the list. A coroner's report found pneumonia was the cause of her death and while prescription drugs were found in her system, they were prescribed for specific illnesses she had at the time of her death.[http://www.cbc.ca/arts/film/story/2010/02/04/brittany-murphy.html] [[User:EMorris|EMorris]] 15:23, 15 February 2010 (EST)

== Reversion needed? ==

I'm inclined to revert Lorddragyn's edits, which repeatedly downplay the culpability here by the Hollywood "stars". For example, James Dean was a notoriously irresponsible driver who died by running into someone else, and could have killed him too. It doesn't matter that the investigation could not conclude that speeding was the cause of the fatal wreck. Often such investigations are inconclusive.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:52, 6 April 2010 (EDT)

==[[User:Lorddragyn]]==
I dislike the username in addition to his edits. Hollywood values done to Wikipedia style of editing does not impress me. You can minimize that it was just an overdose, not a suicide, list all the fancy drug names, but it's still a suicide. He knew what he was doing was illegal and harmful. To reflect more on Wikipedia style you need look no further than The December 25th Bomber [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Northwest_Airlines_Flight_253&oldid=334150190] as an example. What is more important, knowing the plane model and color or that it was an Islamic Terrorist trained to kill Americans?--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 14:55, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
:I have to second/third this. His entire objective is watering down hollywood behavior. And note that this is his behavior immediately upon receiving a second chance. [[User:DouglasA|DouglasA]] 14:58, 7 April 2010 (EDT)

::My objective is not to water down Hollywood behavior. My objective is to clarify that some of the people on the list died accidentally, while fully knowing the consequences of their actions, some died because they were trying to. Knowing that someone died because they ingested multiple different types of pills, or had a history of reckless driving before dying in a car accident, proves Hollywood values more than just saying suicide. And providing more details surrounding the deaths of these people shows the inherent corruption in Hollywood as a whole, not just the people on this page, which is what I thought we were trying to show with this article in the first place. If I'm wrong let me know, but I think my argument makes sense.[[User:Lorddragyn|Lorddragyn]] 18:52, 7 April 2010 (EDT)

:::Cleared up some dead links in the references. Working on a substantial rewrite on the article, adding subcategories and trying to cover more of the entertainment industry as a whole. There is definitely room for improvement in this article, hence why I am devoting to much attention to the subject.[[User:Lorddragyn|Lorddragyn]] 23:04, 8 April 2010 (EDT)

:::: ''"some of the people on the list died accidentally, while fully knowing the consequences of their actions"''- That statement is not proper. It's not an accident if fully knowing. You can argue that the person thought they could cheat the devil, didn't want to die, but did. That is like saying they wanted to live but drugs ruined it for them. Drugs were the consequences of their decisions, suicide was the consequences of their actions. I'm for making the page better but I agree with Douglas, you have watered-down the meaning of suicide. Just make sure you add to- while making better, and a little less rewording.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 12:48, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

:::::I admit my choice of words there was a bit faulty, but what I'm really trying to say is that we aren't trying to demonize the individuals on this page, we are trying to show that Hollywood itself is the causation of these problems. Drawing a distinction between those who meant to kill themselves by ingesting too much of a prescription, or illegal drug, and someone who accidentally dies from the same shows the inherent risk in the action and that both carry a heavy cost. The intent of suicide may not have been there, but the end result is the same in both cases. And if we can have details that have nothing to do with a persons death , like that Bruce Lee had trace amounts of weed in his system when he died of hypersensitivity to aspirin, then details surrounding the death of these people belong in the article too. Unless you believe that putting these details in would somehow discredit the argument we are trying to prove.[[User:Lorddragyn|Lorddragyn]] 14:44, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

"Hollywood" isn't an entity of and by itself. It is comprised of individuals, and like all communities the bigger players, have more influence and dictate the social mores that the others follow. It isn't arguable that the Hollywood community is anything other than liberal...and that liberal bias influences how they wish to spin drug abuse and infanticide by abortion as well. I have to agree with Jpatt and Douglas that if one chooses to do illegal drugs, or abuse legal ones, they know, unless they are literally mentally incapacitated, there is always a possibility of death. Hollywood can spin it anyway they choose (and does), but even subconsciously, they like that risk...its part of the "high". --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 16:54, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

: Yes Hollywood is comprised of individuals, as you point out. But so is the rest of the country. Could it not be argued that Hollywood is a cross-section of the United States, and that problems in the whole country look larger in Hollywood because of the smaller amount of people and the media coverage concerning said people? People travel from all across the globe to make it big in Hollywood, can it not be said that the problems of the people in Hollywood started where they were raised, or is it that Hollywood itself is the corrupting influence? And to say that it isn't arguable that Hollywood isn't anything other that liberal is silly when the article you are defending states "Ronald Reagan, James Stewart, Charlton Heston, Walt Disney and many others practiced conservative values while working in Hollywood".[[User:Lorddragyn|Lorddragyn]] 19:41, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

::There are exceptions to any general rule I have found. However the "artsy" culture has always been Bohemian in nature, and they protect their own. Yes, it is magnified out of all measure simply because of the value liberal culture places on celebrity. --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 20:56, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

'''Reply to Lorddragyn''': I looked at many of your edits before reverting them and found a common thread: you would downplay culpability by the Hollywood "star" for something that was due to his culturally bankrupt values. For example, James Dean was a notoriously reckless driver. His fatal accident consisted of ramming head-on into a car that was turning left in front of him. James Dean even received a speeding ticket a few hours earlier, and his Porsche sported the offensive name on the back, "Little Bastard." Yet you tried to downplay his fault by saying that officials could not prove he was speeding when he collided with the other car (thereby endangering that driver's life also).--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:21, 10 April 2010 (EDT)

:What I was implying when I wrote that was that just because James Dean wasn't speeding when he died, it doesn't mean that his reckless behavior behind the wheel wasn't dangerous. When he died the other car veered into his lane, but he was lucky that his years of reckless driving hadn't gotten him killed sooner. His death among many others are what I would consider "toying with fate" because, like others on this list, he was doing something he knew to be dangerous (and most likely lethal) with complete disregard of the consequences. Maybe what I wrote could be rewritten to make that thought more clear.[[User:Lorddragyn|Lorddragyn]] 20:00, 11 April 2010 (EDT)

::I just improved the item about James Dean. Feel free to improve further. And while investigators may determine the speed at impact, I don't see how we'd know his speed leading up the impact. The circumstances of the head-on accident strongly suggest speeding, as was Dean's habit.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:02, 11 April 2010 (EDT)

==Religion==
Should there be a 'religion' section? I have done a quick check, and among the 5 most successful actors, only two are Christians (one is a Buddhist, one a Scientolgist, and Harrison Ford refers to himself as "Democrat" when asked about his religion! ). Some factual figures could show a direct link between lack of belief in Christ and depraved moral values. Regards, --[[User:TSpencer|TSpencer]] 11:19, 16 April 2010 (EDT)
:Go to it! --<big>[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]</big>/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 11:46, 16 April 2010 (EDT)
:: Very good. I am away all week-end, when I come back I will try with a bigger sample and see what comes out. Regards, --[[User:TSpencer|TSpencer]] 12:22, 16 April 2010 (EDT)

==Trainspotting==

The graphic nature of this film (and the novel that inspired it) are not for comedic value, so it doesn't belong in the humor section. Trainspotting is about addiction, and though it's graphic and not at all pretty, it doesn't belong lumped with things like Family Guy or the American Pie movies. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 16:09, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

: Hi Jane

:Thanks for catching my typo (Faily Guy - must be a Freudian slip). However, I'm going to disagree with you on this one. I've read the book and seen the movie and I know that the overall point of both is to convey the burden of addiction, but it's undeniable that parts of both are played up for comedic value. Like when Spud's feces ends up on on the kitchen wall, Renton takes (and loses, and finds) the suppositories (in the worst toilet in Scotland), Tommy loses the sex tape or Spud's speed-freak job interview. Would you seriously argue that those are not meant to be funny? [[User:EMorris|EMorris]] 16:20, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

::I must admit, I got a nice chuckle out of Faily Guy. I'll have to start calling it that from now on. I really don't like that show. I do see what you're saying, maybe I just didn't want it to be included with things like Family Guy or American Pie because of the issue of intent. The overall intent of Trainspotting is not humor or a lighthearted romp through filth, whereas things like American Pie and Family Guy (and the other examples on the list) seem to only serve the purpose of grossing people out, or just generally annoying people, with no other purpose. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 16:37, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Helen Thomas

2010-10-22T20:12:22Z

JaneX:

Surely we can find a better photo of the lady referred to in the article? Have ''some'' respect for our fellow human beings? [[User:Human|Human]] 22:52, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

:Did she smile for the photo? I don't see anything wrong with it. I am sure the photo isn't a surprise to anyone.-- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 23:06, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

==Helen Thomas and Juan Williams==

How is Helen Thomas any different from Juan Williams? Both are covered under the same first amendment right to free speech, or aren't they? [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 17:42, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

:One resigned, one was fired, one showed hate, the other showed fear. Thomas and Williams are both liberals who are free to say what they want (1st Am) but Williams was given the short end of the stick on his 1st Amendment rights. Thomas buckled under pressure. --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 18:06, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

::But Williams was in direct violation of the NPR employee handbook, so his dismissal is not censorship. He was not prevented from saying what he said, but he was disciplined for going against the rules and procedures of his employer, which any employee in any employment situation should expect.[[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 18:28, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

:::That violation was? The rules were don't speak about fear of Muslims on planes after what happened 9/11? --[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 18:48, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

::::It's not that simple. Here is the NPR ethics code, specifically number 10 under outside speaking engagements: http://www.npr.org/about/aboutnpr/ethics/ethics_code.html#outside. Williams can feel anyway he wants, but what if someone said the same thing and replaced Muslim with "black", "Jewish", "white," how would people feel then? [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 19:13, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

:::::We can agree to disagree. I don't think the blacks jewish or whites is a good argument. The whole premise is fear of flying because the Muslim religion advocates martyrdom. Their garb may as well be a military uniform in the eyes of fellow passengers.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 19:36, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

::::::Why is that not a good argument? It's not that long ago that people would cross the street rather than walk on the same sidewalk as a black man because blacks were viewed as lesser individuals and prone to violence. Are all black people prone to violence? Absolutely not, just as not all Muslims are. And Islam is not the only religion that "advocates" martyrdom.[[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 20:04, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

::::::: I don't know JaneX, if blacks were hunted down by whites and one said he feared whites- I don't see it as offensive. I understand there are a billion Muslims who are peaceful but the ones that aren't don't wear a military uniform to identify themselves. I don't see no.10 in the NPR rulebook as applying. I believe after watching and reading the feedback of Juan that this had to do with liberal politics, George Soros cash infusion to NPR, their disdain for FOX News and what Juan said. It's likely an excuse to fire him. I am unaware of other religions advocating martyrdom.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 20:39, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

::::::::I don't think that's a productive counterargument. Collective fear of group X, whomever it may be, will get us nowhere. We were not attacked by Muslims, we were attacked by Muslim extremists. There's a distinct difference between the two. Extremists exist within every political, religious or ethic identity, and rarely do they have distinguishing features. I wasn't trying to start an argument, I just feel that this is a double standard. I enjoy Conservapedia because it elevates the conversation and such a double standard would belong at a place like Wikipedia, not here. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 21:22, 21 October 2010 (EDT)

::::::::: Jane, you seem to spend a lot of time arguing, and not much time contributing. And if you're confused about the difference between Muslim and Christian values, may I suggest enrolling in the Bible course? Actually, perhaps we should have a "Koran course" so that people can learn what's really behind the "religion of peace"... I'll see what research I can do for that. --[[User:TeacherEd|TeacherEd]] 00:33, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::Well, I'm going to disagree with you there, Ed, especially since I stated that I wasn't trying to start an argument, but rather have a discussion, and I very much appreciate Jpatt for engaging in such a discussion with me even though we didn't meet eye to eye. And to be honest, this discussion, from my standpoint, is over and I'm not sure why you felt the need to jump in. I don't understand why you think I'm so "confused" about the difference between Muslim and Christian values. Is it because you actually believe that you have some idea of what I know in the first place? My heart belongs to my Christian faith, but I was also raised in a household of tolerance for those of different beliefs and I studied my own faith as well as others in my primary, secondary and collegiate education. I am very well aware of the 90/10 rule (which I assume is something you're accusing me of violating), but I also know that I've made contributions (however small) and do my best to contribute when my unorthodox work schedule permits. My only point was that extremists can exist anywhere, not just within Islam.[[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 11:07, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::::Some of my groupies are complaining I am ignorant of martyrdom so I'll explain it for the misinformed atheists. I am unaware of other religions advocating martyrdom. I can agree that Christians advocate that position. But let us not play stupid ok? Being killed for your beliefs (martyr) is different than killing yourself and others for the Islamic cause. Buddhist setting themselves on fire for a religion is considered martyrdom but is it not suicide? Kamikaze attacks on U.S. forces for the Emperor was considered noble martyrdom but again, an unjust suicide. Islamic martyrdom is just twisted logic of allowing suicide for the sake of homicide. Chew on that libs.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 14:43, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

===Shirley Sherrod and Juan Williams===
How is Shirley Sherrod any different than Juan Williams? Both were fired for out of context comments about "a prejudice we need to get passed." Only difference is Sherrod was offerred to be rehired with a job promotion. [http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec10/politics_07-21.html] [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 15:53, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

::I think Juan William's new home at Fox News will be much better suited for him, and the $2M contract is pretty nice too. I'm happy for him.[[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 16:12, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

===Jesse Jackson and Juan Williams===
How is Jesse Jackson any different than Juan Williams? Jackson said, "I hate to admit it, but I have reached a stage in my life that if I am walking down a dark street late at night and I see that the person behind me is white, I subconsciously feel relieved." Jackson ''didn't say'' it was "a prejudice we need to get passed." [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 15:53, 22 October 2010 (EDT)
[http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/politics/july-dec10/politics_07-21.html]

Talk:Hollywood values

2010-10-22T20:09:08Z

JaneX:

Hollywood values

2010-10-22T19:40:42Z

JaneX: typo edit, removal explain on talk page

[[File:Hollywood-sign wikimedia.jpg|right|200px]]
'''Hollywood values''' are characterized by decadence, [[narcissism]], rampant [[drug|drug use]], [[adultery|extramarital sex]] leading to the spread of sexually-transmitted [[disease]], [[abortion]], lawlessness, promotion of the [[homosexual agenda]] and death. A 2006 poll by MSNBC said that 60% of [[Americans]] agree that "Hollywood's values are not in line with the rest of America and that the quality of movies has diminished in recent years."<ref>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11714540/</ref>

The lack of [[morals]] and [[values]] in [[Hollywood]] culture has been destroying the fabric of American culture, particularly the family.

There have been, however, a handful of prominent people whose work in Hollywood opposed these values. [[Ronald Reagan]], [[James Stewart]], [[Charlton Heston]], [[Pat Boone]], [[Paul Schofield]], [[Walt Disney]] and many others practiced conservative values while working in Hollywood and the productions of these and many others also reflect these values, irrespective of the star names associated with them: [[The Chronicles of Narnia]] and ''Independence Day'' (a movie about [[Independence Day]]) being recent examples.

Hollywood values include a flagrant disrespect and disregard for:

* [[marriage]] and [[abstinence]]
* [[patriotism]]
* [[religion]] and [[spirituality]] (Hollywood's profits depend on the [[advertising]] and sale of [[materialism|material goods]] and other superficial "solutions" to problems.)
* [[accountability]]
* the U.S. military<ref>[http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/hollywood_gets_it_right_p4d84a9jyymsfLw0THb7EM Hollywood gets it right, New York Post, March 09, 2010]</ref>
* family responsibilities, like childrearing<ref>[[Britney Spears]] "doesn't want [her] kids back." [http://www.nypost.com/seven/02132008/news/nationalnews/brit_doesnt_want_her_kids__1st_ex_97425.htm]</ref>
* laws that apply to everyone else
* Commonly accepted behavioral boundaries and values of human decency

In addition, Hollywood portrays these values as rebellious and [[counterculture|countercultural]]. They portray religious and spiritual institutions as greedy, self-serving, sexually perverted, prejudiced, ignorant, and unscientific. When comparing the satisfaction brought about by faith, spirituality, family, and friendship, which may happen to include donations to a church or other organization, it is clear that the profits of Hollywood and the industries which rely upon Hollywood for profit are the true establishment - thus making traditional values truly rebellious and countercultural, and Hollywood values a lie.

==Deaths ==
Hollywood values are deadly. Tourists in Hollywood can visit over 30 sites of typically self-inflicted Hollywood celebrity deaths.<ref>http://www.hollywoodusa.co.uk/celebrity-death-sites.htm</ref> A sampling of deaths caused by Hollywood values include:<ref>http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=4174733&page=1</ref><ref>http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/entertainment/news/article/20021--list-of-celebrities-taken-by-drug-use-tragic-and-growing</ref>
*[[John Barrymore]], 60, cirrhosis of the liver from heavy drinking
*[[John Belushi]], 33, was a repeated drug abuser who ultimately died of a lethal injection of cocaine and heroin
*[[Clara Blandick]], 81, suicide
*[[John Bonham]], 32, after too much drinking, asphyxiated on vomit
*[[Elisa Bridges]], 28, 'Playboy' magazine model, drug overdose combining heroin, methamphetamine and other drugs
*[[David Carradine]], 72, died from suffocation most likely suicide, had history of suicidal thoughts, alcohol and narcotics abuse <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,525177,00.html Thai Police: Carradine Death May Be Accidental Suffocation] Fox News, June 05, 2009 </ref>
*[[Stephen Clark]], 30, Def Leppard guitarist, drug and alcohol overdose<ref>http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1108020/bio</ref>
*[[Lana Clarkson]], 40, actress and model murdered by [[Phil Spector]]
*[[Kurt Cobain]], 27, lead singer from the band Nirvana, a heroin addict who committed suicide with a shotgun blast to the head.
*[[Ray Combs]], 40, host of the TV game show Family Feud committed suicide by hanging himself in a psychiatric ward.
*[[John Costelloe]], 47, actor from HBO's The Sopranos known as "Johnny Cakes", shot himself in the head. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,472864,00.html 'Sopranos' Actor Shocks Fans, Loved Ones With Holiday Suicide] NYPost, December 25, 2008</ref>
*[[Bob Crane]],49, the actor's success led to a bizarre life of sex addiction. He was bludgeoned to death.
*[[Karl Dane]], 47, suicide by gunshot
*[[James Dean]], 24, a notoriously reckless and frequently ticketed driver crashed fatally head-on into a car turning left in front of his Porsche (see also crime, below)
*[[Eazy-E]], 31. [[AIDS]] contracted through drug use.
*[[Brian Epstein]], 32, overdosed on sleeping pills and alcohol
*[[Chris Farley]], 33, overdose of morphine and cocaine
*[[Judy Garland]], 47, overdosed on sleeping pills
*[[Lucy Gordon]], 28, British actress from the movie Spiderman 3, hung herself <ref>[http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/Movies/wireStory?id=7642829 Actress Lucy Gordon Found Dead at Age 28 in Paris, ABC News, May 21, 2009]</ref>
*[[Lee Grivas]], 26, the on-again, off-again boyfriend of actress Christina Applegate, 36, was found dead of an apparent drug overdose<ref>http://www.bloggernews.net/116552a</ref>
*Corey Haim, 38, teen idol who starred in many movies and then a reality show, died of a drug overdose.<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8560246.stm</ref>
*[[Phil Hartman]], 49, murdered in his million-dollar house by his third wife Brynn Hartman
*[[Margaux Hemingway]], 42, suicide
*[[Jimi Hendrix]], 27, an enthusiastic abuser of illegal drugs, choked on his own vomit after overdose of sleeping pills.
*[[Rock Hudson]], 59, AIDS
*[[Michael Hutchence]], 37, asphyxiated during an auto-erotic act while alone in a Sydney hotel. His wife, Paula Yates (see below), also fell victim to Hollywood Values.
*[[Richard Jeni]], 49, suicide<ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258231,00.html</ref>
*[[Russell Tyrone Jones]] (a.k,a. "Old Dirty Bastard"), 35, musician, died of drug overdose two days before his 36th birthday
*[[Janis Joplin]], 27, heroin overdose
*[[Andrew Koenig]], 41, child actor in the TV series Growing Pains committed suicide. <ref>[http://omg.yahoo.com/news/andrew-koenigs-body-found-in-vancouver-park/36485?nc Andrew Koenig's Body Found in Vancouver Park, Yahoo News, February 25, 2010]</ref>
*[[Heath Ledger]], 28, found dead in his [[Manhattan]] apartment. "Prescription sleeping pills and anti-anxiety pills were found in bottles in Ledger's bedroom and bathroom, and police have speculated the death was caused by an accidental drug overdose." "Ledger died of an accidental overdose of painkillers, sleeping pills, anti-anxiety medication and other prescription drugs, the New York City medical examiner said Wednesday." <ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,328828,00.html</ref>
*[[Bruce Lee]] (Li Xiaolong), actor, 33, collapsed and died; trace amounts of cannabis found in bloodstream at postmortem; the official cause of death was acute cerebral edema (swelling of the brain) from hypersensitivity to aspirin.
*[[Stuart Lubbock]], 31, found dead in the swimming pool of popular TV entertainer [[Michael Barrymore]], having suffered severe anal trauma, after a drug-fueled party at the star's home
*[[Queen (band)|Freddie Mercury]], 45, born Farrokh Bulsara, lead singer of the band Queen, died from AIDS-related bronchial pneumonia.
*[[Sal Mineo]], 37, murdered under circumstances that suggested "a homosexual motive".
*[[Marilyn Monroe]], 36, overdosed on sleeping pills.
*[[Keith Moon]], drummer of [[The Who]], 32, overdose of Clomethiazole prescribed to treat his [[alcoholism]].
*[[Jim Morrison]], 27, died of an apparent heroin overdose.
*[[Brittany Murphy]], 32, motion picture film actress died of cardiac arrest from combining prescription drugs <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/02/27/brittany-murphy-taken-vicodin-days/ Brittany Murphy May Have Taken 109 Vicodin in 11 Days, Fox News, February 27, 2010]</ref> Official death from pneumonia and drug intoxication.
*[[Chris Penn]], 40, brother of [[Sean Penn]], "died accidentally from an enlarged heart and the effects of a mix of multiple medications".
*[[River Phoenix]], 23, died from an overdose of cocaine and heroin.
*[[Dana Plato]], 34, ''Diff'rent Strokes'' star, suicide by drugs overdose after posing for lesbian pornography.
*[[Elvis Presley]], 42, large drug intake causes a cardiac arrhythmia and rumored to have suffocated on the carpet when he collapsed from a drug overdose.
*[[Virginia Rappe]], 30, died of a ruptured bladder incurred at a party hosted by [[Roscoe Arbuckle]].
*[[Robert Reed]], 59, actor known as Mike Brady was a homosexual with AIDS, died from cancer in 1992. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/2009/08/14/brady-bunch?slide=25 Robert Reed in 1990, Fox News]</ref>
*[[Brad Renfro]], 25, became addicted to heroin and was found dead after a night of drinking
*[[George Reeves]], 45, played Superman from the series Adventures of Superman, suicide by gunshot
*[[Anna Nicole Smith]], 39, accidental overdose on prescription drugs
*[[Dorothy Stratten]], 20, murdered by spouse after engaging in extramarital affair
*[[David Strickland]], 29, cast member of NBC's Suddenly Susan hung himself in a Las Vegas hotel.
*[[Sharon Tate]], 26, an actress with a [[hippie]] lifestyle who was murdered by followers of [[Charles Manson]], a [[Beatles]]-obsessed musician wannabee; Manson's followers murdered Tate, who was pregnant and only two weeks from birth, her unborn child, her prior lover, who was staying with her while her husband, movie producer [[Roman Polanski]] (see 'Crime', below), was away, and another unmarried couple staying in the house. (It is believed that Manson had actually intended his followers to kill the home's previous residents, [[Terry Melcher]] (son of [[Doris Day]]) and [[Candice Bergen]].) <ref>The Polanski Problem [http://moviegeeksclub.blogspot.com/2008/04/polanski-problem.html]</ref> <ref>Sharon Tate Official Site: Sharon's Biography [http://www.sharontate.net/bio4.html]</ref>
*[[Lou Tellegen]], 52, suicide
*[[Sid Vicious]], 21. [[Heroin]] overdose while awaiting trial for his girlfriend's murder.
*[[Kenneth Williams]], 62, overdose.
*[[Natalie Wood]], 43, drowned while intoxicated.
*[[Paula Yates]], 41, heroin overdose.
*[[Layne Staley]], 34, found dead in apartment two weeks after a drug overdose.<ref>http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/staley1.html</ref> Layne promoted the use of hard drugs in the 1992 [[Alice in Chains]] song "Junkhead"<ref>http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Junkhead-lyrics-Alice-In-Chains/3A665DABDFC00AD54825688F0010CD45</ref>
*[[Paul Gray]], 38, bassist of heavy metal band Slipknot, died of an overdose of morphine and fentanyl. <ref>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100622/ap_on_en_mu/us_slipknot_bassist_autopsy</ref>
*Shannon Michelle Wilsey, a.k.a Savanna, a pornographic film star, committed suicide after a drunken car accident.

==Sexually Transmitted Diseases==
The loose sexual morals characteristic of the lifestyle defined by Hollywood Values often lead to sexually transmitted diseases. Examples include,

* [[Rock Hudson]] died of AIDS-related complications after contracting the disease through homosexual intercourse.
* Michael Jeter, who was homosexual, also died due to AIDS-related complications.
* Freddie Mercury of the rock group [[Queen (band)|Queen]], notorious for his flamboyant onstage presence, also contracted AIDS through his wildly promiscuous homosexual lifestyle, and subsequently perished of the self-inflicted condition.

== Crime ==
'''Hollywood values often include being arrested or convicted for a variety of crimes. Here are some examples:'''

* [[Paris Hilton]] was arrested in Las Vegas, 8/27/2010, for possession of a controlled substance, [[Cocaine]]. The hotel heiress was a passenger in a vehicle that was stopped by police. The driver was arrested for DUI '''pertaining to drugs, not alcohol'''. Through further interaction between Hilton and authorities, it was discovered she was in possession of a controlled substance. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/08/28/paris-hilton-arrested-drug-possession/ Paris Hilton arrested in Las Vegas.]</ref>
* Actress Lori Petty, who was featured in "Free Willy" and "A League of their Own" and ran into a 14-year-old skateboarder and was arrested for felony drunk driving charges.<ref>http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015343906</ref>
* Craig Phillip Robinson, the actor famous for playing Darryl Philbin on NBC's "The Office," "was arrested on June 29, 2008, on suspicion of possessing MDMA, also known as ecstasy, and methamphetamine."<ref>http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/TV/08/15/office.actor.arrested.ap/index.html</ref>
* [[Winona Ryder]] was convicted of convicted of vandalism and grand theft for stealing designer merchandise worth $5,560.40.<ref>http://www.courttv.com/trials/ryder/</ref>
* [[O.J. Simpson]] is widely believed to have murdered his wife and her friend, and was found liable in a civil (but not criminal) trial. He has since been convicted of unrelated felonies.
* [[Paris Hilton]] was convicted of driving while intoxicated, and then violated the terms of her probation, leading to a 45-day prison sentence.<ref>[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18472845/ Paris Hilton sentenced to 45 days in jail], MSNBC, May 4, 2007</ref>
*[[Hugh Grant]] was arrested in 1995 when found in a car with a prostitute.<ref>[http://www.mugshots.org/hollywood/hugh-grant.html]</ref>
*[[Stacy Keach]], movie actor, was sentenced to 9 months imprisonment in the [[United Kingdom]] in 1984 after being arrested at [[London]] [[Heathrow Airport]] in possession of a large quantity of [[cocaine]].
*[[Kiefer Sutherland]] was given a 48-day sentence for DUI in 2007, an offense committed while still on probation following a 2004 conviction for DUI.<ref>Sutherland is released from jail [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7200633.stm BBC]</ref>
*[[George Michael]] was convicted of "committing a lewd act in public", having been arrested in a public restroom by a plain clothes police officer. Arrested in September 2008 in a [[London]] public lavatory, he was found in possession of crack cocaine and cannabis - but merely received a caution. <ref>http://uk.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUKLL28201720080921</ref>
*[[Snoop Dogg]], a popular [[rap|rapper]], was arrested in 2006 for [[marijuana]] possession. He is a libertarian<ref>http://www.ucllibertarians.com/celebrities.html</ref> who advocates marijuana use.<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/dailydish/detail?blogid=7&entry_id=21457</ref>
*[[Roman Polanski]], Polish-born film producer, is unable to return to Hollywood as he skipped bail and fled to [[France]] after being convicted in 1978 on charges of unlawful sexual intercourse with a thirteen-year old girl.
* Rapper DMX (Earl Simmons) was caught on camera drag racing at a speed over 110 miles on a freeway, and then a SWAT team was used to arrest him three days later on drug and animal cruelty charges. "The Maricopa County sheriff's office says the 37-year-old, whose real name is Earl Simmons, at first tried to barricade himself in his bedroom. He came out as a SWAT team entered during the early-morning raid Friday."<ref>http://news.aol.com/entertainment/music/music-news-story/ar/_a/dmx-arrested-on-animal-cruelty-charges/20080509163709990001</ref>
*[[Martha Stewart]] was charged with illegal [[insider trading]] in 2003.<ref>[http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2003-69.htm SEC press release (SEC Charges Martha Stewart, Broker Peter Bacanovic with Illegal Insider Trading)]</ref>
*[[Tatum O'Neal]] arrested in 2008 for [[cocaine]] possession. <ref>
[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,361361,00.html Tatum O'Neal Released After Drug Arrest], [[Associated Press]], ''[[Fox News Channel|Fox News]]'', June 02, 2008.</ref>
*[[James Dean]] displayed an unhealthy interest in a twelve-year-old boy. His former director Elia Kazan later commented: "I've known many actors who have been twisted up in their sex lives, but never anybody as sick and unhealthy as Dean was."
*Redmond O'Neal, son of Farrah Fawcett and Ryan O'Neal, plead guilty to possessing heroine and methamphetamine as well as driving under the influence of drugs.<ref>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080627/ap_on_en_ot/people_redmond_o_neal;_ylt=AiQCBwpJpxqBOFWVyqEycXsDW7oF Redmond O'Neal pleads guilty to drug charges</ref>
*[[Actor]] Nick Nolte was arrested for drunk driving in 2002<ref>http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/nolte1.html</ref>
*[[Sean Bean]] was arrested and spent the night in a cell after allegedly beating his wife.<ref>http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hR3pX0eEytJcMo7m5LRLHOYpasSA</ref>
*[[Shelley Malil]], 43, worked as an actor in [[movies]] and television. He is charged with causing great bodily injury and using a deadly weapon on Kendra Beebe, a 35-year-old [[mother]] of two. He appeared on the back patio of Kendra's house and stabbed her 20 times. Now held on a $10 million dollar bond. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Aug13/0,4670,ActorArrested,00.html 40-Year-Old Virgin' actor pleads not guilty] AP, August 13, 2008</ref>
*Former Power Rangers actor [[Skylar Deleon]], will have three separate trials for four murders. The first trial is set for the murder of Tom and Jackie Hawks, who were allegedly bound to the anchor of their yacht and tossed overboard. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,433765,00.html 'Power Rangers' Actor Set to Stand Trial in Yacht Killings] AP, October 7, 2008</ref> he was sentenced to death for committing murder.<ref>http://www.dcourier.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=66850</ref>
*Musician George O'Dowd, better known by his stage name, [[Boy George]], has been convicted (and will likely go to prison) for handcuffing a male escort to a bed against his will and then beating him with a chain.<ref>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1092168/Guilty-Boy-George-warned-judge-faces-jail-falsely-imprisoning-male-escort.html</ref> Earlier he had been convicted of cocaine possession.
*Dana Plato was arrested for armed robbery and prescription forgery.
*Todd Bridges assaulted a motorist and was repeatedly arrested for drug-related offenses.
*Gary Coleman was arrested for assaulting a woman by punching her in the face.
*Musician/Producer [[Phil Spector]] was found guilty of second-degree murder for the shooting death of actress Lana Clarkson. He was convicted of second-degree murder. <ref>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30194936/</ref>
*Kiefer Sutherland, Fox television's "24" star was charged with misdemeanor assault for allegedly head-butting a fashion designer at a nightclub. <ref>[http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=47880 ‘24’ Star Kiefer Sutherland Charged for Allegedly Head-Butting a Fashion Designer] Associated Press, May 8, 2009</ref>
*Actor Elmore "Rip" Torn was arrested for breaking into a bank and carrying a firearm while intoxicated. In 2009, he was given probation in a drunk-driving case. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/01/30/actor-rip-torn-arrested-allegedly-breaking-connecticut-bank/?test=latestnews Actor Rip Torn Arrested for Allegedly Breaking Into Connecticut Bank, Fox News, January 30, 2010]</ref>
*Former teen actor Leif Garrett was arrested for possession of a controlled substance. He has a number of former arrests including [[heroin]] possession. <ref>[http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2010/02/03/crimesider/entry6170622.shtml Leif Garrett Arrested: Former Teen Idol Busted for Controlled Substance, CBS News, February 3, 2010]</ref>
*[[Sean Penn]] was charged with criminal battery and vandalism for attacking the paparazzi in October 2009. <ref>[http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/19/sean-penn-crime-battery-vandalism-prosecution-jail-paparazzi/ Sean Penn Charged With Crimes, TMZ, February 19, 2010]</ref>
*Comedian [[Andy Dick]] was arrested for groping an employee and a patron of a nightclub in West Virginia. <ref>[http://www.herald-dispatch.com/breaking/x818845820/Andy-Dick-arrested-by-HPD Andy Dick charged with felony, shows still on, Herald Dispatch, January 23, 2010]</ref>
*Actor Nicholas Brendon had been arrested March '10 in a drunken scuffle with police. He is charged with resisting arrest, two counts of battery against a police officer and felony vandalism. Brendon has a history of alcoholism. <ref>[http://www.popeater.com/2010/04/07/nicholas-brendon-arrested-charged/ 'Buffy the Vampire Slayer' Star Charged With Police Battery, Vandalism, PopEater.com, April 7, 2010]</ref>
*Hollywood television producer Bruce Beresford-Redman of CBS's "Survivor" series is arrested as the lead suspect in the murder of his wife. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/04/08/mexican-official-hollywood-tv-producer-suspect-wifes-death/?test=latestnews 'Survivor' Producer 'Suspected' in Wife's Death in Mexico, FOX News, April 8, 2010]</ref>
*Actor Chris Klein, star of the American Pie films, which glorify sex and alcohol abuse, was arrested for drunk driving in June 2010<ref>http://www.tmz.com/2010/06/16/american-pie-chris-klein-busted-for-dui-arrest/</ref>

== Falsehoods ==

[[Hollywood values]] perpetuate [[liberal]]-driven [[Essay:Liberal Falsehoods|falsehoods]]:

*[[The Iron Lady]]
: Meryl Streep plays [[Margaret Thatcher]] in this gross mistake of a film. Liberals distort her triumphs and her low career points. Streep portrays Thatcher as a dementia-sufferer looking back at her life with sadness. The director defended the film as "a fictional film but it will be fair and accurate.” Thatcher's children Mark and Carol are appalled and say “They think it sounds like some Left-wing fantasy." <ref>[http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/7895160/Margaret-Thatchers-family-are-appalled-at-Meryl-Streep-film.html Margaret Thatcher's family are 'appalled' at Meryl Streep film, Telegraphe.co.uk, July 17, 2010]</ref>

*[[The Tillman Story]]
:A liberals view of the circumstances surrounding the death of football star and Army Ranger [[Pat Tillman]]. The film portrays each and every fact as sinister. Plus, each and every fact is evidence of a conspiracy. Typical Hollywood [[George W. Bush]] bashing flick. The bias was clear, make Tillman a liberal atheist anti-war hero that was cannon-fodder for the government. Tillman's actions speak louder than any twisted accusations presented in this documentary. <ref>[http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/kschlichter/2010/07/13/the-tillman-story-dont-let-the-facts-get-in-the-way-of-your-agenda/ FILM REVIEW: Absurd Conspiracy Theories Abound in Agenda-Driven ‘Tillman Story’, BigHollywood.com]</ref>

*[[Matthew Shepard Fallacy]]
:Adherents to Hollywood values "green-lighted a troika of [[Matthew Shepard]] movies after he was senselessly killed because it affirmed their gut feeling that a gay young man living in backward America is destined for death at the hands of hateful ultraconservatives. A street in West Hollywood still stands in his name despite ABC News reporting the story false: He was killed by crazed meth addicts for drugs and money -- not because he was gay. Isn't that tragic enough? Yet Shepard is still the icon of gay victims' rights, and the mistaken story of his 'fate' soon thereafter befell Jake Gyllenhaal's character in 'Brokeback Mountain.' The Oscar statuette stands as the exclamation point."<ref>http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-dustup26sep26,0,1800794,full.story</ref>

*[[Inherit the Wind]]
:Hollywood perpetuated complete lies about the [[Scopes Trial]] in order to smear Christianity, including:

:*portraying [[William Jennings Bryan]] as being ignorant, harsh and punitive, based on a false portrayal of his actions and testimony

:*falsely claiming that at the end Bryan, in a senseless fit of madness, died in the courtroom amid caring and reasonable Darwinists

:*falsely portraying the Darwinists in a positive light and the Christians as deceitful

:In real life, Bryan and the Christians won the trial and were charitable to the end, while the Darwinist Darrow was deceitful in reneging on his deal to take the witness stand after Bryan did.

*[[U 571]]
:The 2000 film [[U 571]] had a plot which was based on the first capture of a German Enigma machine in [[World War 2]]. However, in the film the capture is made by Americans. In fact the first Enigma machine was captured by the British in 1941 prior to the Americans entering the war.

*[[Recount]]
:The 2008 [[HBO]] movie on the 2000 Presidential elections and its aftermath in Florida. A look into how the [[Republicans]] stole the election and the role of its party members that made it happen. Republicans are portrayed as ghoulish and cited as manufacturing demonstrations. Both the real Warren Christopher and James Baker contend the film’s portrayal of the former is hopelessly untrue. <ref>[http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/hbos-recount-hanging-chads-and-black-humor/ HBO’s Recount: Hanging Chads, Black Humor] The Washington Times, May 4, 2008</ref>

*[[Winter Soldiers]]
:The 1972 film about U.S. troops from Vietnam put on record as baby killers, human rights violators, and general disservice to America. This myth was propagated by a few anti-war activist liberal actors that never did see combat in [[Vietnam]] and some were never in the country. The initial result was to hold hearings in Congress over the matter. All allegations were proven fabrications, falsehoods, and lies.

*[[An Inconvenient Truth]]
:The 2006 false documentary about man-made [[global warming]] created & hyped by [[Al Gore]]. A [[British]] court found the film contained at least [http://www.conservapedia.com/Global_warming#Al_Gore.27s_.22Inconvenient_Truth.22_Movie_Claims 11 material falsehoods]. The Science and Public Policy Institute has found 35 falsehoods associated with the film. <ref>[http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monckton/goreerrors.html 35 Inconvenient Truths, Science and Public Policy Institute]</ref>

*[[Fahrenheit 911]]
:A [[Michael Moore]] film that was a false portrayal of why America fought a war against [[Saddam Hussein]]'s Iraq. The main theme was to attack [[George W. Bush]] during wartime.

*[[Sicko]]
:Another [[Michael Moore]] film which spread many falsehoods about American healthcare while unduly glorifying the so-called benefits of socialized healthcare. Memorably referred to Cuban healthcare as being better than American healthcare.

==Disrespect for marriage==

Many celebrities and other exponents of Hollywood Values have no respect for the sanctity of marriage - their own or anyone else's. This is manifested in a high rate of marriage breakdown, and by the home-wrecking activities of the promiscuous, whose moral outlooks have been distorted by Liberal and atheistic teachings.

*[[Elizabeth Taylor]] has been married eight (8) times, including a nearly 6-year marriage to [[John Warner|Senator John Warner]] (R-VA).<ref>http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000072/bio</ref>
*[[Valerie Bertinelli]] said her divorce from [[Eddie Van Halen]] was caused by infidelity and drug use - by her too. She said she was "destroying my body," trying to keep up with a rock-star lifestyle. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332551,00.html Valerie Bertinelli About Divorce From Eddie Van Halen: 'I Wasn't An Angel Either'], [[Fox News Channel]], ''[[Associated Press]]'', February 26, 2008</ref>
*[[Zsa Zsa Gabor]] has been married nine (9) times. One of her marriages - to Felipe de Alba - was annulled after one day.
*[[Mickey Rooney]] has been married eight (8) times, but has been with his last wife for 30 years after embracing religion and abandoning his previous lifestyle.
*[[Charlie Chaplin]] married four (4) times, including his marriage at the age of 54 to an 18-year-old bride.
*[[Johnny Carson]] married four (4) times, and frequently made light of his having divorced three times, as if this were something funny.
*[[Meredith Baxter]] married and divorced four (4) times; she finally admitted in 2009 that she was a [[homosexual]].
*In 2009, the married [[David Letterman]] admitted to having had adulterous sexual relationships with multiple members of his staff; he had previously fathered a child out of wedlock.
*[[Jayne Mansfield]] was married three times and had numerous extramarital affairs. She appeared in the centerfold of the pornographic magazine Playboy, and died in an automobile accident.
*[[Britney Spears]]' 2004 marriage to Jason Alexander lasted 55 hours.
*Musicians [[Cher]] and [[Gregg Allman]] were married for eight days in 1975.
*[[Drew Barrymore]] has two of the shortest celebrity marriages on record, one of 30 days and a five-month marriage to notorious lowbrow comedian Tom Green. Barrymore is a poster child for Hollywood values, as a former child star who became an alcoholic and drug addict who also posed for pornographic magazines.

== Offensive Behavior/Moral depravity ==

* [[Charlie Sheen]] to Wife Brooke Mueller: "I'll Kill You." <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/08/09/charlie-sheen-wife-brook-mueller-ill-kill-you/?test=latestnews Charlie Sheen to Wife Brooke Mueller: "I'll Kill You"]</ref>
* Trashing hotel rooms is a favorite form of offensive behavior by Hollywood types. Many examples are readily available on the [[internet]].<ref>See, e.g., [http://www.budgettravel.com/bt-dyn/content/article/2007/12/21/AR2007122101034.html]</ref>
*[[Mel Gibson]], who had started drinking again, was arrested after being stopped for driving at 84 mph in a 45 mph zone on a notoriously dangerous road in Malibu, California.<ref>''Mel Gibson apologizes after DUI arrest'' [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14080210/ Associated Press]</ref> A breathalyzer test confirmed he was drunk and next to him was an open bottle of Tequila; after being arrested he hurled Anti-Semitic abuse at a Jewish police officer.<ref>[http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2292336,00.html Mel Gibson rants against Jews in drink-drive arrest], Times Online, July 30, 2006</ref>
*The parents of [[Miley Cyrus]], just 15 years old, allowed [[Annie Liebowitz]] to pose the starlet without a shirt or bra (nominally [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/topless "topless"]) and with just a sheet covering her front for Vanity Fair magazine.<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/28/business/media/28hannah.html?_r=1&oref=slogin</ref><ref>http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20195785,00.html</ref><ref>http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,23608789-5001026,00.html</ref> "I took part in a photo shoot that was supposed to be 'artistic' and now, seeing the photographs and reading the story, I feel so embarrassed," Cyrus said Sunday in a statement through her publicist. "I never intended for any of this to happen and I apologize to my fans who I care so deeply about." <ref>http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gYLnT2kyPIgNUurQ71aNM3EJKpRAD90ARTGO0</ref>
:"... a situation was created to deliberately manipulate a 15-year-old in order to sell magazines," a network statement said. <ref>http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gYLnT2kyPIgNUurQ71aNM3EJKpRAD90ARTGO0</ref>
*Many Hollywood stars who have purposely sought fame have then turned upon photographers and fans. [[Sean Penn]] is well known to lash out at photographers.
*The parents of 16-year old Jamie Lynn Spears allowing her unwed pregnancy to be publicly portrayed as a normal act even though she is a role model for millions of underage teenagers. Mayor of Gloucester, Carolyn Kirk recently blamed the glamorizing of teen pregnancy by Jamie Lynn Spears for the 17 high school teenagers that got pregnant at the same time. <ref>[http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2008/06/gloucester_mayo.html Gloucester mayor rebuts report of teen pregnancy pact], June 23, 2008</ref>
*Despite an upcoming ballot initiative to remove gay marriage from California law, [[Ellen DeGeneres]] proudly displays her [[gay]] sexuality for all to see. On August 16, 2008, DeGeneres "married" Portia de Rossi in a small ceremony in Beverly Hills. Fox News called it "the biggest celebrity union since California legalized same-sex marriage." <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,405085,00.html Reports: Ellen DeGeneres and Portia de Rossi Wed] AP, August 17, 2008</ref> Now, her fans and millions of young girls can read about her gay marriage in magazines such as People and Us Magazine, hear about it on celebrity news television shows.
*Rapper [[Kanye West]] and bodyguard attacked the paparazzi at [[LAX]] airport and allegedly smashed a camera on the floor valued at $10,000. The pair were arrested for felony vandalism. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,420869,00.html Kanye West Arrested in Altercation With Paparazzi] Ap, September 11, 2008</ref>
*[[Heather Locklear]] was arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence of a controlled substance. The officer noticed Locklear's car parked on a state highway and blocking a lane in Montecito, Ca. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,429388,00.html Heather Locklear Arrested on Suspicion of DUI] AP, September 29, 2008</ref>
*[[Charlie Sheen]] was arrested on Christmas Day for domestic abuse of his current wife Brooke. He was booked for second-degree assault, menacing, and criminal mischief. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2009/12/25/actor-charlie-sheen-arrested-domestic-violence-charges/?test=faces Actor Charlie Sheen Released From Jail After Domestic Abuse Arrest, Fox News, December 25, 2009]</ref> Sheen has a history that includes assaults against girlfriends and his former wife.
*Celebrity of the moment [[Kourtney Kardashian]] gave a risque lingerie shoot while pregnant with her boyfriend's child. After birth, Mom and baby adorned magazine covers, highlighting the modern acceptance of single motherhood. The cover reads ''"Baby Mason will bring our family together,"'' obscuring the traditional meaning of family. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/2009/10/16/kardashian-sisters?slide=2 The Kardashian Family, Fox News]</ref>
*Actor [[Jude Law]] had a sexual relationship with model Samantha Burke that produced a daughter. It is reported that Law finally went to visit his daughter for the first time, 5 months after she was born. <ref>[http://www.celebrity-gossip.net/celebrities/hollywood/jude-law-makes-first-visit-to-love-child-216056/ Jude Law Makes First Visit To Love Child, CelebrityGossip.net, March 1, 2010]</ref>
*Actor [[Tom Hanks]] called Mormons 'un-American' for their support of Proposition 8 in California. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2009/01/23/tom-hanks-apologizes-calling-mormon-supporters-proposition-american/ Tom Hanks Apologizes for Calling Mormon Supporters of Proposition 8 'Un-American', Fox News, January 23, 2009]</ref>
*[[Woody Allen]] seduced and took pornographic photographs of the youthful daughter of his then girlfriend [[Mia Farrow]].
*[[John Cusack]] calls for satanic death cult to descend on Fox News, Dick Armey, Newt Gingrich and GOP welfare freaks. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/08/31/actor-john-cusack-calls-satanic-death-fox-news-gop-leaders/?test=faces John Cusack Calls for 'Satanic Death' of Fox News, GOP Leaders, FOXNews, August 31, 2010]</ref>
*[[Brad Pitt]], appearing in a Spike Lee film announces his desire to see BP executives get the death penalty. <ref>[http://www.politico.com/click/stories/1008/pitt_death_penalty_for_bp.html Brad Pitt: Death Penalty For BP, Politico, August 23, 2010]</ref>

== Hollywood "humor" ==
Another manifestation of Hollywood's offensiveness and moral depravity is found in many of its "comedy" movies. More so than any other entertainment industry, many Hollywood productions rely on lowbrow, juvenile humor. Unlike more intelligent comedies of the early to mid-20th century (such as ''The Great Dictator'' or ''Arsenic and Old Lace''), many contemporary Hollywood comedies eschew intelligence, social commentary, wit or satire in favor of lower-hanging fruit, such as "toilet humor," nudity/sex, gratuitous violence and shock value. Examples of such films include:

*''American Pie'' - a long-running film franchise primarily dealing with teenage sex and alcohol, relies on jokes about sex and bodily functions
*''Jackass'' - essentially a montage of ridiculous stunts and pranks with no coherent story
*''South Park'' - uses constant iterations of urine, feces, farting and shock humor, such as jokes about abortion, rape and the Holocaust
*''There's Something About Mary'' - contains gratuitous sex and jokes about bodily functions
*''Family Guy'' - notorious for its shock tactics, this show routinely employs willful tastelessness for comedic shock value. Examples include one regular character who is a pedophile, as well as constant Hitler jokes

== Rehab ==
Hollywood values often result in [[Celebrity|celebrities]] going into rehab. Here are some examples:

*[[Kirsten Dunst]] checked into the [[Cirque Lodge]] treatment facility in [[Utah]] after a week of hard partying at the [[Sundance Film Festival]], according to a source at the lodge, although the lodge's director of operations denies this. <ref name = "foxkirsten">
[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329545,00.html Reports Say Kirsten Dunst in Rehab; Rep for Facility Denies It], ''[[Fox News]]'', February 08, 2008</ref>

The following all checked into the above facility seeking treatment for various psychological problems:

*[[Lindsay Lohan]]<ref name = "foxkirsten"/>
*[[Eva Mendes]]<ref name = "foxkirsten"/>
*[[Mary-Kate Olsen]]<ref name = "foxkirsten"/>
*[[Robert Downey Jr.]]
*[[Courtney Love]]

*[[Heather Locklear]]<ref>"A spokeswoman for the 47-year-old star said: 'Heather has been dealing with anxiety and depression.'" She "checked into a clinic in [[Arizona]] that treats depression."[http://www.pnas.org/content/101/11/3721.full]</ref>

*[[David Duchovny]], having boosted Hollywood Values through his role in a decadent television series, now finds himself trapped by the depravity that he promoted, and has had to enter rehab for his addiction to unchastity<ref>http://www.reuters.com/article/entertainmentNews/idUSN2835847820080829</ref>.

== Hypocrisy ==

Hollywood personalities often propose legislation such as outlawing private gun ownership, or speak out against things such as anti-gun laws, but have at the same time acted in movies contrary to their public opinions:

* [[George Clooney]] on hearing that fellow actor and gun-rights advocate, [[Charlton Heston]], suffers from Alzheimer's disease, said: ''"I don't care. Charlton Heston is the head of the [[National Rifle Association]]. He deserves whatever anyone says about him."''<ref>http://www.funnyreign.com/quotes-georgeclooney.shtml</ref> Clooney starred in the film ''The Peacemaker'', in which he played an American military man defending the country from a nuclear attack; scenes in the film showed him using a gun to defend himself and others.

* [[Mark Wahlberg]] upon meeting Charlton Heston on the set of the remake of ''Planet of the Apes'', Wahlberg rudely told Heston, "It was very disturbing meeting you." Later, Wahlberg would have this to say at the MTV Movie Awards: ''"I believe Charlton Heston is America's best villain because he loves guns so much. Maybe he should get the award for being president of the National Rifle Association."''<ref>http://www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?ID=2360</ref> Wahlberg's character in ''Planet of the Apes'' uses a gun to defend himself and other humans from the apes who would rule over them.

* [[Helen Mirren]] played Queen Elizabeth II in a movie 'The Queen', but [http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,414361,00.html admits she used to use cocaine and was date-raped] as a result of her poor life choices as a younger woman.

==Using appearances to promote their [[liberal]] political views==
*Rapper Kanye West infamously went way off script during a live benefit concert for victims of Hurricane Katrina, criticizing the media's treatment of images of black and white people and saying President [[George W. Bush]] "doesn't care about black people."<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090300165.html</ref>
*During the live broadcast of the 2007 Emmy Awards, actress Sally Field went on a sputtering anti-war rant, eventually concluding by saying, "If the mothers ruled the world, there would be no g**d*** war in the first place." She received thunderous applause from the Hollywood audience for her vulgar remark.<ref>http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=3610891</ref>
*[[Michael Moore]] surprised no one by criticizing President Bush during his 2003 Oscar acceptance speech for "Bowling for Columbine," saying, "We live in the time where we have fictitious election results that elect a fictitious president. We live in a time where we have a man who's sending us to war for fictitious reasons, whether it's the fiction of duct tape or the fiction of orange alerts. We are against this war, Mr. Bush. Shame on you, Mr. Bush. Shame on you."<ref>http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/features/20030323-2028-oscars-moore.html</ref>
*Actress Jessica Lange verbally attacked President Bush and the Iraq War during a 2008 commencement speech at Sarah Lawrence College in Yonkers, New York, stating, "We are living in an America that, in the last seven and a half years, has waged an unnecessary war, established prison camps, condoned torture, employed corporate armies, eliminated the right of habeas corpus, practiced extraordinary rendition, and believe me, this is only a partial list."<ref>http://cbs5.com/politics/Jessica.Lange.President.2.732264.html</ref>
*Actress Megan Fox was recently quoted by MSN in a piece entitled "The Wit and Wisdom of Megan Fox" discussing her new movie Transformers 2. She said "why not just take out all of the white trash, hillbilly, anti-gay, super Bible-beating people in Middle America?” <ref>[http://www.onenewsnow.com/Blog/Default.aspx?id=559876 Megan Fox would barter using ‘Bible-beating white trash’]OneNewsNow.com</ref>

==Vanity and [[Idol]] Worship==
[[Hollywood]] places a value on appearance and it is driven into the minds of those who they seek profits and adulation from. There is such the need to be rich and famous that anything goes. It may be glamorizing to reveal skin <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/2009/07/15/lovely-talented-khloe-kardashian?test=faces The youngest of the Kardashian gals decided flashing photographers was the best way to get some attention, FOX News, April 1, 2010]</ref> or shamelessly being sex symbols to audiences. Pat-your-back awards ceremonies whereby we breathlessly await the ''Stars'' to arrive. Naturally, scandals make big headlines and these people are no stranger to controversy, for [[money]]. These fake [[Gods]] have captured the hearts of millions upon millions who follow their every move. Negative stereotypes poison the minds of their followers. Women feel less worthy due to the overwhelming influence touching every part of society. [[Pennsylvania State University|Penn State's]] Media Research found the following regarding Women's magazines, "Past research indicates that exposure to thin models results in lower [[self-esteem]] and decreased weight satisfaction, and to increased depression, guilt, shame, [[stress]], insecurity and body dissatisfaction." <ref>[http://www.psu.edu/dept/medialab/research/selfworth.html Construction of Beauty as a Measure of Self-Worth] Penn State Media Research</ref>

[[File:Celebrity.jpg|right|250px]]

==Award Shows==
Fans of Hollywood are served copious amounts of vanity and glamour as celebrities are greeted on the red-carpet attending award events. Paparazzi snap pictures and the stars are rated for their appearance in various tabloids and entertainment television. Once the celebrities have arrived at the awards, television cameras capture for the masses acceptance speeches of their beloved stars. Once limited to couple of banquets such as the [[Emmy Award|Emmys]] or [[Golden Globe]]s, now some two-dozen award shows are vying for exposure. These new award shows offer glimpses into ego and moral depravity of Hollywood. It's not uncommon for the stars to act cool by cussing to the audience during acceptance speeches. These awards shows have become tawdry events that are marketed mostly to teens.

*Madonna engages in a lustful-lesbian kiss onstage to [[Britney Spears]] at the 2003 MTV Music Video Awards. <ref>[http://top40.about.com/od/britneyspears/ig/Britney-Spears-Photo-Biography/Britney-Spears-Kissing-Madonna.htm Britney Spears and Madonna Kiss, About.com, 2003]</ref>
*A notoriously self-serving [[Kayne West]] jumped onstage at the [[MTV Video Awards]] to interrupt an acceptance speech by Taylor Swift. <ref>[http://www.examiner.com/x-15972-Raleigh-Pop-Culture-Examiner~y2009m9d14-MTV-Video-Music-Awards-inspire-annual-controversy MTV Video Music Awards inspire annual controversy, Examiner.com, September 14, 2009]</ref>
*[[Mariah Carey]] attended the Palm Springs International Film Festival. Her acceptance speech was made while completely drunk. <ref>[http://neonlimelight.com/2010/01/06/video-mariah-carey-accepts-film-festival-award-drunk/ Video: Mariah Carey Accepts Film Festival Award Drunk, Neonlimelight.com, January 6, 2010]</ref>
*[[Miley Cyrus]] performed at the [[Teen Choice Awards]] in August 2009. The 16-year old was dancing around on a stripper pole. <ref>[http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1619183/20090820/cyrus__miley.jhtml Billy Ray Cyrus Defends Miley's Teen Choice Pole Dance, MTV.com, August 20, 2009]</ref>
*Actor [[Jack Black]] opened the 2009 MTV Video Awards by leading everyone in a prayer to [[satan]]. <ref>[http://christianpress.com/content/entertainment/11-lifestyle/360-jack-black-leads-a-prayer-to-the-devil-at-the-2009-mtv-awards satan Jack Black Leads A Prayer To The Devil At The 2009 MTV Awards, Christian Press, September 14, 2009 ]</ref>
*Adam Lambert’s [[American Music Awards]] performance received over 1500 complaints for flipping off the audience, kissing a male keyboard player, and fondling several of his backup dancers. <ref>[http://www.ecanadanow.com/entertainment/2009/11/28/did-you-find-adam-lamberts-american-music-awards-performance-offensive/comment-page-1/ Did You Find Adam Lambert’s American Music Awards Performance Offensive?, eCanadanow.com, November 28, 2009]</ref>

==Preying on Underage Stars==
Debbie Gibson reflects on her life as a sixteen-year-old teenage Pop star and her exposure to the very sinister side of show business. “It is very disheartening that there are so many older men that prey on young performers.” What is even more disturbing than dirty male fans would be older male record executives trying to take her to adult parties and corrupt her with alcohol. Even the way the paparazzi stalk the younger artists is very different from following around adults. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,533542,00.html?test=faces Debbie Gibson Speaks Out About Pedophile Fans Wanting to 'Corrupt Little Girls' Fox News, July 17, 2009]</ref>

==Productions==
The diseased moral values of the Liberal-dominated entertainment industry are manifested all too clearly in many of the products of that industry - motion pictures and television programs that offer no edification or instruction to the viewer, but plumb a cesspit of license and depravity. Some recent examples include the television series ''Desperate Housewives'' and the TV series/movie ''[[Sex and the City]]''.

==Religion==
A short study of the ten most successful actors <ref>http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-successful-actors-at-the-box-office.php 10 most successful actors] </ref> shows that only 50% are Christian (compared to 76% for the general population), with 30% expressing no religious beliefs at all (15% in the general public). These actors have had successful careers and it is very likely that religious affiliation in regular actors is much lower, exposing or predisposing them to the influence of Hollywood values.

[[Scientology]] is practiced by many Hollywood personalities. Tom Cruise and John Travolta are major spokesmen for this religion.

==Books==
* ''Hollywood Against America''
* ''Hollywood Babylon'' (1965) by Kenneth Anger (US edition)
* ''Hollywood Babylon II'' (1984) by Kenneth Anger

==See also==
*[[Supermodel]]s
*[[Gallery of American Heroes]]
*[[World Famous Pictures]]

{{Liberalism}}
== References ==
{{Reflist|3}}

==External Links==
*[http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ic_Q3agTpruvzoCJ5UxWaAqGJW3A Bush attacks 'Hollywood values'], ''AFP'', Oct 1, 2007
*[http://www.thesmokinggun.com/mugshots/index.html Mug-shots of arrested Hollywood stars]
*[http://www.parentstv.org/ptc/news/articles/2010/mtvmovieawards.asp Parent's Television Council: MTV’s Movie Awards Will Honor Profanity]
*[http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/vernon/100802 From Hollywood: to Hitler with love (Stalin, too)]

[[category:entertainment]]
[[Category:Liberal Traits]]
[[Category:Social Problems]]

Talk:Helen Thomas

2010-10-22T15:07:02Z

JaneX:

Talk:Helen Thomas

2010-10-22T01:22:36Z

JaneX:

Talk:Helen Thomas

2010-10-22T00:04:07Z

JaneX:

Talk:Helen Thomas

2010-10-21T23:13:34Z

JaneX:

Talk:Helen Thomas

2010-10-21T22:28:06Z

JaneX:

Talk:Helen Thomas

2010-10-21T21:42:04Z

JaneX:

The Simpsons

2010-10-18T23:02:54Z

JaneX: update

'''''The Simpsons''''' is a satirical animated comedy series created by ''Life in Hell'' cartoonist [[Matt Groening]]. ''The Simpsons'' started on the ''[[The Tracey Ullman Show]]'' in 1987. In December 1989 the show debuted on the [[Fox Network]]. The show was also made into a feature-length movie, which was released on 27 July 2007.

''The Simpsons'' is the longest-running sitcom in the [[United States]], as well as the longest-running animated television series, and is viewed all over the world. It has won 23 Emmy Awards, and is now in its 22nd season, as of 2010.

==Family==
The show revolves around the fictional Simpsons family.

===Homer Jay Simpson===
The overweight, balding father of the family. Homer "works" as a safety inspector in the local nuclear power plant - where he usually sleeps, which gets him into trouble with his boss, Mr. Burns. However, many episodes have shown him performing a wide range of other jobs. Homer enjoys a diet mostly centered around donuts and "Duff" beer. Homer is by choice quite lazy but does get pushed into occasionally performing heroic acts for his family.

===Marge Simpson===
Marjorie "Marge" Bouvier Simpson is the mother of the family. Instantly recognizable thanks to her unfeasibly large blue beehive hairdo, Marge provides the foundation for the family. Her relationship with Homer is portrayed as a loving one but frequently exasperating due mostly to Homer's buffoonery. Marge is in many respects the prototypical suburban American mother, as she stays at home and takes care of the family while Homer works. On a few occasions Marge has gotten a job which was met with horrible results.

===Bartholomew "Bart" Simpson===
Their son Bart, the eldest child, is a troublemaker and self-proclaimed underachiever. Bart has a mixed relationship with his father. While sometimes harboring a very close relationship with his father, Bart's opinion of Homer is all over the radar, ranging from very affectionate love to deep frustration.

===Lisa Simpson===
The older daughter. Lisa is mostly concerned with being a good student, protecting the environment (although she is involved with other [[liberal]] causes at different points in the show's history such as [[vegetarianism]] or [[recycling]]), and playing the [[saxophone]]. Her high intelligence relative to the rest of her family often makes her feel isolated.

===Maggie Simpson===
A baby who hardly ever talks, instead sucking her [[pacifier]] twice. On a couple of occasions she has proven to have exceptionally high intelligence (for example, when her pacifier was took away during a trip to a [[foster home]], she staged an elaborate plot to get it back).

==Themes==
While The Simpsons has many [[liberal]] themes the basis and morals of the show often portray family centered values in a warped sort of way and many episodes have a strong [[church]] focus. The show also has many episodes which focus on politics. The writers of the show come from both liberal and conservative backgrounds, and this is reflected through the portrayal of American politics on the show. The Springfield [[Republican Party]] is headed by the villainous Mr. Burns and meets in an old castle. Twice they have put forwards candidates for elections: Burns himself ran for governor of the anonymous state Springfield is in, though he eventually lost; while in a later episode Sideshow Bob, though twice convicted for attempted murder, becomes Mayor of Springfield. He is removed from office when it is discovered that he personally and secretly committed large scale voting fraud. Meanwhile, the Springfield Democratic party is led by Mayor "Diamond" Joe Quimby, who is portrayed as a promiscuous, unfaithful and corrupt politician, once admitting openly that he murdered his opponents. Quimby and his family are clearly modeled on the Kennedy family.

The show's portrayal of religion and [[Christianity]] in particular is often given in the form of Ned Flanders, the Simpsons' next door neighbor. A devout Christian, Ned is sometimes overbearing in his faith, but he is consistently shown to be compassionate and decent. In the series' first few seasons Ned was generally loathed by Homer for the perceived (and often real) superiority of Ned's quality of life. Later episodes have shown the two to be quite close at times, with more than a few featuring mutual adventures. Ned's reception amongst Christians has generally been positive <ref> http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/february5/1.28.html </ref>.

==Controversy==
Though The Simpsons is considerably less atheistic than other Fox shows such as Family Guy, recently, it has become more controversial. Ironically, Marge Simpson has been a highly controversial character.

Marge Simpson has appeared on the cover of Playboy.

In the 2009 Halloween Special, "Treehouse of Horror XX," the writers of the show took a jab at the Eucharist. In one story in this episode, the people of Springfield were zombified and Bart's DNA was a cure. When the Simpsons escaped Springfield, other survivors wanted to eat him, but Marge screams:

::“What kind of civilized people eat the body and blood of their savior?”

Catholic League President Bill Donahue criticized the writers for this line. <ref>http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/news/faith/2009/10/catholic_league_simpsons_donoh.html</ref>

==Reference==
{{reflist}}

==External Links==

* [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096697/ IMDB Website]
* [http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_15996/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=q38A4cHB Vatican gives its approval of the Simpsons]

[[category:Television Shows|Simpsons, The]]

Shimon Peres

2010-10-17T17:36:45Z

JaneX: typo

'''Shimon Peres''' (1923 - ) was the [[Prime Minister]] of [[Israel]] and is the current [[President]] of Israel, a role that is more ceremonial than its United States equivalent. He has had a long history in Israeli politics, and shared the [[Nobel Peace Prize]] for his role in the [[Oslo Accords]] in 1994. Unfortunately, that early promise for peace never materialized. A man known as a peacemaker, his opportunities may be few now that he is into his 80's.

{{DEFAULTSORT: Peres, Shimon}}

[[Category: Nobel laureates in Peace]]
[[Category: Prime Ministers of Israel]]

Conan O'Brien

2010-10-10T22:30:07Z

JaneX: Update

'''Conan O'Brien''' is the former host of the Tonight Show. He is an American [[Catholic]] of Irish descent. Before replacing [[Jay Leno]] as host, he hosted Late Night with Conan O'Brien, replacing liberal comedian [[David Letterman]]. O'Brien was also a former writer of "The Simpsons and "Saturday Night Live.

Recently, Jay Leno has been given back his post on the Tonight Show.

O'Brien will be returning to television with his new show, Conan, premiering on November 8th on TBS<ref>http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2010/09/01/conan-obriens-new-odd/</ref>.

==References==
{{reflist}}
{{DEFAULTSORT:O'Brien, Conan}}
[[Category:Media personalities]]
[[Category:Talk Show Hosts]]

Laurence Maroney

2010-10-09T23:21:25Z

JaneX:

'''Laurence Maroney''' is a [[National Football League]] running back for the [[New England Patriots]]. He was born on February 5, 1985 in [[Saint Louis]], [[Missouri]]. He is 5'11" and weighs 220 pounds. He wears the number 39 jersey with the Patriots.

== High School Football Career ==
From 1999 to 2002, Maroney attended Normandy High School, in [[Saint Louis]], [[Missouri]]. In his four years playing football he was an all conference selection each year and a all state selection two years. In his senior (2002) season he rushed for 1,948 yards on 210 attempts (9.3 avg) and had 25 touchdowns. Also in his senior year he had 15 sacks while playing on defense.... His overall career statistics in his high school football career were 4,808 yards 608 rushing attempts for 56 touchdowns.

== College Football Career ==
Maroney played [[college]] football with the [[Minnesota Golden Gophers]] for three season (years 2003 through 2005). He was know as a big and fast running back with breakaway speed. In his freshman season he backed up starting running back [[Marion Barber]] and ended up being a essential part of a one-two Minnesota rushing attack with Barber running for 1196 yards and 17 touchdowns and Maroney rushing for 1121 yards and 10 touchdowns. His total of yards in his freshman year was the best total of any freshman running back in the nation. Laurence moved in his sophomore year from backup running back to co started with [[Marion Barber]]. He began the 2004 season with six straight games of 100 yards plus rushing yards including one vs the number four defense in college football, Iowa, at the time. Laurence ended 2004 leading the Golden Gophers with 217 rushing attempts for 1348 yards (6.2 avg) and 12 touchdowns and was named co MVP of the team with [[Marion Barber]]. After Barber graduated and was drafted in the [[2005 NFL Draft]] by the [[Dallas Cowboys]], the running back duties fell solely in the hands of Maroney. Although he struggled with injures throughout the 2005 junior season he managed to establish himself as one of the nations top running backs. In 2005 he had 1464 yards on 281 rushing attempts (5.3 avg) and 10 touchdowns. He also had the best game of his career when he rushed for 258 yards in a game against Wisconsin.... Deciding to enter the [[2006 NFL Draft]] rather then stay at the [[University of Minnesota]] for a senior season Maroney ended his career with the Gophers as one of the schools greatest running backs. In total he had 3,933 yards and 32 touchdowns on 660 attempts, and is second in the schools history for all-propose yards with 4,797.

== NFL Career ==
In 2006 the [[New England Patriots]] drafted Maroney in the 1st round of the [[2006 NFL Draft]] with the 21st overall pick. In his rookie season with the Patriots Maroney played in 14 games. In week three of the regular season vs the [[Cincinnati Bengals]] he had his best game when he rumbled for 125 yards and two touchdowns - including one 25 yard touchdown run that was named by the [[NFL Network]] as one of the top ten runs of the 2006 season. He also playing a huge role on the Patriots as a kickoff returner, Maroney returned 28 kicks for 783 yards (28 yard avg). In week 13 in a game vs the [[Detroit Lions]] Maroney was hurt on a kickoff return in the first quarter of the game. He didn't return to play in the game and also ended up missing the next two weeks while recovering from the injury. Returning from the injury induced inactive list in weeks 16 and 17 he ran for key touchdowns in both games. He ended the 2006 NFL season with 745 yards on 175 attempts (4.3 avg) and 6 touchdowns. He also had an surprisingly effective year in the receiving game as well with 22 receptions for 1941 yards and a touchdown.

Maroney is currently signed with the Patriots to a five year deal that extends till the 2011 season. He underwent shoulder surgery in early 2007<ref>http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/03/27/hell_be_up_and_running/</ref> but is reportedly going to be ready to assume the New England starting running back job for the 2007 season.

== References ==
<references/>

== External Links ==

* [http://www.nfl.com/players/laurencemaroney/careerstats?id=MAR273311 NFL Stats]
* [http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=146107 College Stats]
* [http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=3642 Rotoworld - Maroney News]
* [http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=63&p=8&c=1&nid=2540062 Scout.com - Maroney News]
* [http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=playerbio&bio=32009 Patriots Bio]
* [http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=38349 NFL Players Bio]
* [http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=10306&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfldraft%2fdraft%2ftracker%2fplayer%3fid%3d10306 ESPN Draft Profile]
* [http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/maroney_laurence NFL.com Draft Profile]
* [http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootballleague/p/laurencemaroney.htm About Football Draft Profile]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Maroney, Laurence}}

[[Category:New England Patriot Players]]

Talk:Stephen Hawking

2010-10-08T20:51:41Z

JaneX: Created page with '==Divorce== How would divorce influence his "promotion of his pseudoscience fantasies"? There's no causality, and unless the claim can be cited beyond simply stating that, "It'…'

Stephen Hawking

2010-10-08T20:45:55Z

JaneX: Removed illogical claim.

[[Image:Bvfgdtre.jpg|right|thumb|Stephen Hawking]]
'''Stephen Hawking''' is a [[United Kingdom|British]] [[physicist]] and [[author]]. He was born on January 8, 1942.

Despite suffering from Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis for most of his adult life he has written books popularizing [[science]]. His most famous books are ''[[A Brief History of Time]]'', ''[[Black Holes and Baby Universes]]'' , ''[[The Universe in a Nutshell]]'' and ''The Grand Design,'' in which he argues against the idea of the need for a Creator. <ref>http://www.theblaze.com/stories/hawking-says-god-not-needed-for-creation/</ref>

Hawking is credited with the development of the [[Big Bang]] Theory of the [[creation]] of the [[universe]]. He theorized that information can escape from a [[black hole]] in the form of [[Hawking Radiation]] wherein virtual dual particles will came close to the [[Event Horizon]] of a [[black hole]]. One half of the virtual dual particle will escape the pull of gravity, taking with it the information of the second virtual particle. It is thought that this eventually will cause the evaporation of the [[black hole]]<ref>http://library.thinkquest.org/C007571/english/advance/english.htm</ref>. He is also credited with advancing the understandings of [[black holes]]. Since 1979 he has been the [[Lucasian Professor of Mathematics]] at [[Cambridge University]], a post once held by [[Isaac Newton]] and [[Paul Dirac]].<ref>[http://www.hawking.org.uk Stephen W. Hawking's webpages]</ref>

Stephen Hawking combines his research with family life and acts to popularize science. He has appeared on [[The Simpsons]] and [[Star Trek|Star Trek: The Next Generation]] [[TV]] shows and contributed vocals through his speech synthesizer to the [[Pink Floyd]] album [[The Division Bell]] on the track [[Keep Talking]].

Hawking has been divorced twice.<ref>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1531891/Hawking-and-second-wife-agree-to-divorce.html</ref>.

Unfortunately, Hawking has yet to accept Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior, and has indeed made the foolish comment that there is no place for a creator, claiming that all of God's Creation is self-contained and not affected by anything outside itself.<ref>http://www.qsmithwmu.com/stephen_hawking's_cosmology_and_theism_(1994).htm</ref>
==References==
<references/>

==External links==

*Creation Ministries International, [http://creation.com/stephen-hawking-god ''Hawking atheopathy: Famous physicist goes beyond the evidence'']
[[Category:Physicists|Hawking, Stephen]]

Michael Vick

2010-10-07T21:00:08Z

JaneX: Update

[[Image:Michael Vick.jpg|thumb|150px|Michael Vick]]
'''Michael Vick''' (born 1980) is a [[National Football League]] quarterback for the [[Philadelphia Eagles]]. He is widely regarded as one of the most athletic quarterbacks in the league, which makes up for his being relatively short for a professional player at his position at 6'0". Vick, whose jersey number is #7, was the first pick in the [[2001 NFL Draft]] after starring at [[Virginia Tech]].

In July 2007, Vick was indicted by a federal grand jury for his active involvement and financing of a dog fighting ring on his property<ref>[http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065 ''Falcons' Vick indicted by grand jury in dogfighting probe'' ESPN News]</ref>. Public opinion was outraged and he was immediately suspended from the team. The Atlanta team owner indicated he would never wear a Falcon uniform again. Vick pled guilty in August<ref>http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2992890</ref>, and was sentenced to 23 months in federal prison.<ref>http://www.northcountrygazette.org/2007/12/10/vick-sentenced-to-23-months-out-date-summer-2009/</ref> He was released in May 2009 to serve the remainder of his time in home confinement and work a construction job<ref name="release">[http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4183786 Vick leaves federal penitentiary for Va.]</ref>.

In September 2010, Vick was named the starting quarterback for the Philadelphia Eagles<ref>http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5601286</ref>.

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Vick, Michael}}
[[Category:NFL Players]]
[[Category:Criminals]]

"Hallelujah"

2010-10-07T20:38:07Z

JaneX:

"Hallelujah" is a song written and originally performed by the Canadian singer song writer Leonard Cohen. It has been covered by several other singers (e.g., Sheryl Crowe, [[Bob Dylan]]) and appeared on the sound tracks of popular movies like the cartoon Shrek (performed by John Cale in the movie and by Rufus Wainwright on the soundtrack album). The winner of the 2008 ''X factor'' (British version of ''American Idol'') Alexandra Burke performed "Hallelujah" in her finale.

The song's first set of lyrics is
{{cquote|Now I've heard there was a secret chord

That David played, and it pleased the Lord

But you don't really care for music, do you?

It goes like this

The fourth, the fifth

The minor fall, the major lift

The baffled king composing Hallelujah

[[Hallelujah]]

Hallelujah

Hallelujah

Hallelujah}}

==External links==
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf36v0epfmI as performed by Leonard Cohen]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAaw6VWpk4A&feature=related as performed by Alexandra Burke]
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Lz5gMU1Y8&feature=related as performed in the movie-length cartoon Shrek]

[[Category:Songs]]

SNAP benefits

2010-10-07T18:44:19Z

JaneX: Remove uncited claim.

'''Food stamps''' are part of a Federal government program, run by the [[Department of Agriculture]] (USDA). Food stamps are intended to help low-income individuals and families supplement their [[nutrition]]al budgets.

Further information: [http://www.fns.usda.gov/fsp/ USDA website]

[[Category:United States Political Terms]]

Talk:SNAP benefits

2010-10-05T19:10:45Z

JaneX: Clarification?

==Numerous types of goods?==

Food stamps can only be used to purchase food. Though SNAP benefits are not as restrictive as WIC benefits, the funds may only be used to purchase food that you actually prepare yourself, so not even hot (prepared) foods can be purchased. A level of personal responsibility comes along with the SNAP program, as one can still purchase junk foods, but I'm not sure what the article means by "numerous types of goods." [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 15:10, 5 October 2010 (EDT)

Talk:Biblical scientific foreknowledge

2010-10-04T15:05:20Z

JaneX:

{{Wikiproject Religion}}

I wanted to fix the formatting here, but it has already been locked. So I guess maybe you could do it, Conservative? I was going to change the final sentence from being a single huge link, to only having one word linked, or possibly made a reference.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 20:21, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
:::Thanks but I prefer it be the way it is as the [[CreationWiki]] article is the best article on the internet on the subject in my estimation. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:24, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
:::: Is that the reason for the redundant link? [[User:Wandering|Wandering]] 20:34, 25 May 2008 (EDT)

==Counter-argument==
RE: The bible prohibits homosexuality because of diseases. One, if God did not want homosexuality, then it seems more probable that the diseases would be the result of His dislike, rather than vice versa. More likely reasons for why God would prohibit homosexuality would be either, one, that He designed men and women to copulate together, therefore to copulate in an unintended way is abhorrent, or two, two men who are homosexual and are not married are two less people who could have contributed to increasing the overall size of the population of the Ancient Hebrews, at a time where their survival was a daily worry, and a large population would have helped many of their problems (that was a run-on sentence, and I do apologize). Either way, it seems unlikely that the ban on homosexuality is because of the diseases associated with it. [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 16:58, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

There is much more that needs to be discussed:

The paragraph about blood-letting
is completely off-topic. The article is about providing scientific knowledge, that was already in the bible long before scientists found them. This whole paragraph has nothing to do with it. It just says, that Pilate was surprised about the quick death of Jesus but he himself had no explanation for it. So the fact that the loss of blood hastens death was not known by the author or at least he deemed it too insignificant to mention it.

Maximum human height:
Goliaths height is still absurd considering he was supposed to be some kind of warrior. The reason Robert Wadlow grew that big, was because of a pituitary adenoma. And he required leg splints for walking, because of his weakened bones. Someone like this would be utterly unqualified to be the lead fighter of an army.
:''Robert Wadlow is cited because of his height and the symptoms related to his height, not because of his weakened legs. Goliath is written in the Bible as having one of those symptoms, but as to his legs he was not Wadlow, nor was he the exact same as any other man who had that condition. Part of his armor was a pair of bronze grieves strapped to his legs; if necessary, they would have doubled as braces...provided he had weakened legs.''
::Alright, now I get it.

Feasibility of Abiogenesis:
No, abiogenesis is not the process of forming life from nothing. It's the theory of forming life from simple organic molecules.
Also the sentence "God creates life from nothing" is far from "depicting clearly". It just gives rise to many more questions like "How did God create that life?"
:''You're changing the very meaning of the word here, when it was used for generations to describe life spontaneously arising from non-life[http://www.trueorigin.org/abio.asp]. As to your assumption about God, the Bible is very clear on the act of Creation: He spoke it into existence. If I was to say to the hat "make a rabbit come out" and the rabbit did just that, then I would have spoke it into existence; but since I am not God, I cannot create something from nothing.''
::Ok, but "non-life" is still far from being just "nothing" as mentioned in the article. It seemed to me like you are mixing the Big Bang theory with abiogenesis, which are completely different things. So "He spoke it into existence." And that doesn't give rise to question of what it is, that lets God do that, or what is behind the ability of "speaking something into existence"? For you this is just supernatural and therefore not comprehensible by our natural means and that's it? I'm sorry, if that sounds like something from a douche. I apologize if it happens to be that questions like those are considered inappropriate.

Earth free floating in space:
Yes, it's clearly in the bible that "god hangs the earth on nothing". However, it is not entirely clear, whether the author of that text really meant with "nothing" the vacuum. I think that in ancient times people referred even to air as being "nothing". After all it was Otto von Guericke in 1654 who proofed with his Experiment, the "Magdeburger hemispheres", the existence of our atmosphere.
:''And the writers of the Bible should have been experimenting instead of writing?''
::I didn't suggest that, I just meant that we cannot know if he, the writer, meant with "nothing" really nothing (vacuum) or just air. Vacuum is a very abstract thing. It's not occurring naturally and its existence is therefor not obvious. I just mentioned the "Magdeburger hemispheres" experiment to make it clear that in the past there were times, when "nothing" and "air" were synonymous. And if the author thought that God hung the earth into air (instead of really nothing/vacuum), then this paragraph about the earth floating in space is also off-topic, has got nothing to do with scientific foreknowledge and should be removed. I mean, surely this site is not being edited by amateurs isn't it?

Meteorites:
This is completely out of context. Nowhere is there mentioned that those "great mountains burning with fire" are basically nothing more than the shooting stars that one can see at night, only bigger. Furthermore it's not fire that lights meteorites but black body radiation from frictional heat with the atmosphere.
:''And to an earth-bound mortal without the benefit of schooling, meteorites would look exactly like those "great mountains burning with fire."''
::Ok, I give you that. But if you see it that way, then this is unscientific. It also hasn't got anything to do with scientific foreknowledge then. It's just a statement, that someone observed a meteorite and therefor is off-topic in this article.

Stellar proper movement:
I don't understand this. Not a single sane religious person would have had the guts to tell from this, that the stars that make up Orion's belt are moving apart from each other before the proper observations were made. The phrase "Among those challenges, two are remarkable:" sounds like there are thousands of challenges mentioned but in only two cases Job was lucky and guessed right. How can we hope from this to gain knowledge just from reading the bible?
:''Try reading the Bible as an historical record concerning the salvation of man from sin through Jesus Christ instead.''
::But then, what is that scientific knowledge from the bible good for? You guys are using this to show, that the people's minds of those who wrote the bible were many centuries ahead of their time, right? But the thing is, you are always interpreting the bible that way, after science has caught up. Job named some challenges that really no man can do, I get this point. But I think it's only coincidence, that these actions are happening in the way Job guessed them. I don't think that Job himself knew, that Orion's belt is really almost literally "unfolding". And therefore this is again off-topic and has nothing to do with scientific foreknowledge. And if in some miraculous way Job really did know that Orion's belt is unfolding, then shouldn't all those other challenges, not only those two in particular, also be true? You see, I have no doubts about Job's genius but I believe, that if he did not just randomly guess those challenges, that he would not be deceitfully mixing true facts in between utter nonsense.
::''tldr:'' There are several ways now on how to proceed: 1.) Acknowledging that this paragraph has got nothing to do with scientific foreknowledge, because Job only guessed them and had no evidence for them. 2.) Leaving the paragraph as it is, but believing in Jobs sincerity and also declaring all those other challenges as scientific foreknowledge. 3.) Acknowledging that Job tried to deceive us, because he mixed in true facts with nonsense.

Existence of the Jet Stream:
The Jet Stream goes from west to east by the way.

Existence of dinosaurs:
How can we know that from the bible? The only things the bible tells us about the behemoth are (Job 40:15-24):
- that "He eats grass like an ox."
- "He moves his tail like a cedar" whatever that is supposed to mean
- "His bones are like beams of bronze, His ribs like bars of iron."
Why could that NOT be an elephant or an hippopotamus. This description is way to vague.
:''And the description is too vague to be an elephant or a hippo. Moses wrote the first five books of the Bible as well as Job; he was educated in the highest court of Egypt; he has seen both elephants and hippos, and his description of the behemoth just doesn't match either animal. Neither has a tail that looks like a cedar, and the branches of cedar trees are pretty big.''
::Okay, if you mean that Job would have had a word for elephant or hippopotamus at hand instead of "behemoth" that we would recognize as such, then I can agree with you.

Lions' killing methods:
Citation needed. The german wikipedia says that lions bite the necks of small animals and clamp the trachea of bigger animals with their jaws.
:''The German Wikipedia is subject to editing by amateurs.''
::Okay, but the content of this paragraph is still in need of a citation, because we don't really want anyone to think that conservapedia is subject to editing by amateurs, don't we. I just can't believe this particular paragraph without an objective source.

Engineering examples:
Whoever put this in, has he read those biblical verses that foretell those engineering examples? I just read Revelation 9:1-11 in hope to read something about submarines. You should also do that and think about it. Nevertheless, if something like this is suggested, you should directly provide said biblical verses.
:''The writer of Revelation was speaking in the terms he knew; he saw a vision of warfare in the future, for example, and he wrote "chariots"; he didn't know the words "tank" or "jeep" or "submarine" or "MiG 25".''
::It is claimed that these verses are a foretelling of submarines. I just don't buy it by reading the mentioned biblical verses. Why would the author use a comparison with locusts and not something bigger, without wings, something that would be a better resemblance to a submarine. Why did he call them even locusts and not "some strange things like locusts". If I would assume that this passage really is a foretelling of submarines, then I would come to the conclusion that the author is trying do deceive me by calling his visions really locusts. And even if I'm completely wrong about this (which could be entirely true), because I'm not smart enough to see the submarines in that passage, you should still provide the verses directly inside this article, that suggest the foretelling of those engineering examples.

Again, it a case of someone clutching at straws, trying to make contradictions where none exist. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 12:57, 19 August 2010 (EDT)
:I do not try to make contradictions. I'm generally trying to point out that some of the things mentioned here are off-topic or are lacking citations.

== Examples? ==

Where are the examples of the Christian Bible detailing scientific knowledge? Is the prohibition of homosexuality the lone example? {{unsigned|Zeitgeisted}}

Yeah, you're forgetting how many times it was wrong, like how it said that the earth was flat, that the sun went around the earth, and that the moon was unreachable, and that you could make a tower to physically reach heaven, just to name a few.
--[[User:JackSmith|JackSmith]] 16:00, 24 June 2008 (EDT)

It is not simply the bible that is full of inspired scientific foresight. Divinely inspired authors such as Jules Verne or scientists such as Konstantin Tsiolkovsky saw technological glimpses centuries ahead of their time. Given the abundance of science fiction and scientific papers, one cannot help but see God's hand in the revelation of technological advances. God's ability to reveal technological glimpses of the future is only distantly rivaled by Satan's ability to pervert God's teachings with concepts like homosexuality, atheism, and evolution, which are clearly not divinely inspired concepts.
Other great scientists, like Albert Einstein, were clearly divinely inspired, seeing details of the universe that defied intuition of other scientists of his day, and could not have been known without the direct intervention of god. The mathematical techniques that Einstein built upon were developed by God for centuries under the guise of Lorentz, Gauss, Riemann, and others. The fact that the Bible did not specifically foresee the development of the computer revolution, the standard model of particle physics, the automobile, airplanes, or high oil prices is simply a function of its limited text, with verbosity suppressed in order to provide a more accessible text for mankind.

This page is a joke right. It includes one lone example that itself is somewhat dodgy. Homosexual people on average have a greater number of STI's than the heterosexual population, but surely this is more because during the 80's it was assumed that homosexual men didn't need to use condoms, thus increasing the spread of disease.
We also make the point at this time that statistical information of this nature isn't actually scientific knowledge. If the bible said "God created light, such that it would always travel at the same speed" that would be impressive. This is not.

==Atheism==

What does that have to do with bible scientific foreknowledge? I assume it's a mistake and I'll be removing it shortly. [[User:Wandering|Wandering]] 00:04, 3 August 2008 (EDT)
:I was ''going'' to remove it, since it's quite inappropriate, but I failed to notice that the article has been locked, for no apparent reason except that it falls under Conservative's atheism pet project. [[User:Wandering|Wandering]] 23:00, 6 August 2008 (EDT)

==A Thought==

I won't offer you a deep philosohpical argument on why I feel that this article does more harm to the Christian cause than it does good, I will merely state what affect it had for me, browsing this website. When I found this page I was exploring the entries on atheism, with interest on why there was such a concentration on communism, as if to imply by analogy that the tens of millions of innocent deaths from Communist regimes have a bad influence on atheist, and I found this page. The problem is merely it smacks of desparation, or clutching at straws.

:Surely you mean "desperation", not "desparation". ;-) [[User:PhyllisS|PhyllisS]] 21:44, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

== Not until it's done ==

I like where this article is going, but for the moment is is terribly unfinished and perhaps shouldn't be present quite yet? I'm currently working on a degree in Christian Theology so I'd be glad to help, and can offer a few examples, but we would really need a trained eye to comb through the Bible for this sort of thing. May I suggest going through the Old Law and deducting the practical reasons those laws existed? An example, just off the top of my head, would be the prohibition of eating pork due to the dangers in eating improperly cooked pork. Another example is that the curse given to Adam in Genesis, "remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return", coupled with how Man was formed, could be taken as an early description of the carbon cycle.

Secondly, it may be prudent to keep a keen focus on the theological and historical context of each reference where appropriate. I noticed someone mention earlier "building a tower to Heaven", obviously missing that this was said of those building the tower, not God. This misunderstanding of the Tower of Babel story is a great example of what I mean here: we need people that realize that the tower was destroyed as its purpose was as a landmark for man to stay all together, violating God's command for man to "spread to all the corners of the earth." It had nothing to do with their possibly reaching Heaven. When looking for examples, we need to be wary of making mistakes such as that. Sorry for all the paraphrasing :-P

Forgive me if I didn't sign or post this properly, as I'm new to all this. [[User:Rev|Rev]] 16:47, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

== Creation Ministries International and scientific foreknowledge ==

I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the claim that CMI supports the idea of scientific foreknowledge, given that they include it on their list of "doubtful" arguments. While they don't dismiss it out of hand, they certainly don't seem to embrace the concept, either:

'':There is amazing modern scientific insight in the Bible.’ We should interpret the Bible as the author originally intended, and as the intended readership would have understood it. Therefore we should be cautious in reading modern science into passages where the readers would not have seen it. This applies especially to poetic books like Job and Psalms. For example, Job’s readers would not have understood Job 38:31 to be teaching anything about gravitational potential energy of Orion and Pleiades. Rather, the original readers would have seen it as a poetic illustration of God’s might, i.e. that God, unlike Job, could create the Pleiades in a tightly-knit cluster which is what it looks like; while God created Orion as a well spread out constellation, again something well beyond Job’s ability. Similarly, Job 38:14 is not advanced scientific insight into the Earth’s rotation, because the earth is not being compared to the turning seal but to the clay turning from one shape into another under the seal.
''

(Creation Ministries International, "What Arguments are Doubtful, Hence Inadvisable to Use?")

--[[User:Benp|Benp]] 12:55, 27 November 2009 (EST)
::::Creation Ministries International believes in the judicious use of biblical scientific foreknowledge claims and here is an example: http://creation.com/modern-medicine I agree with them that you have to be judicious and use sound exegesis. For the most part, except for a statement they made concerning the Mosaic law, the [http://creationwiki.org/Bible_scientific_foreknowledge CreationWiki article on Bible scientific foreknowledge] is very good and very comprehensive. With a few alterations, I would have liked to copy the CreationWiki article over to Conservapedia, but the fairly restrictive GNU license prevented that. Sometimes people get overzealous in making Bible scientific foreknowledge claims and that is the reason why I have not edited the article in a long time as I decided a while back that sooner or later I was going to butt heads with another editor or editors and I decided that I wanted to spend my time addressing other priorities instead. [[User:Conservative|conservative]] 14:25, 19 August 2010 (EDT)

== Beginning of the universe ==

While the Big Bang theory may be more in line with Genesis than a steady-state theory, most Biblican literalists would argue the Big Bang theory is false. Since it's false, Genesis saying something ''kind of'' like it isn't really scientific foreknowledge, and I feel this part should be removed. Thoughts, anybody? [[User:JacobB|JacobB]] 14:59, 8 February 2010 (EST)

== Eyesight ==

I just read the part about eye sight and was trying to find out more information about this and am rather curious. Is there any source for this or anyone know about what what medical techniques it is referring to in the article or even the doctor that confirmed this? Thank you in advance [[User:Johnfranklin|Johnfranklin]] 19:42, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

:Your question is a good one. This NPR story describes superficially one woman's experience in having her sight restored. [http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=112933586] It doesn't go into as much detail as the biblical account so more citations would be welcome. I'll continue to look as well.

:: Please let us know I would love to read it and we could also put it as the reference to the article. Thanks Andy! [[User:Johnfranklin|Johnfranklin]] 22:39, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

::: This account from Friday's newspaper in the [[U.K.]] is analogous but doesn't specifically mention the experience of seeing people walking as the eyesight is restored. It does, however, capture the overall sensation. (cite moved to content page)

:::: I looked in the history of the article and show that you added this on 24 November 2009. Do you remember where this information came from? Was it from a medical journal or newspaper or something different? [[User:Johnfranklin|Johnfranklin]] 23:08, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

::::: I heard it from a medical source -- an eye surgeon I believe -- which may not have been published. The foregoing newspaper accounts come close but if the editors become aware of the similarity with the biblical account, then I doubt they would publish it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:25, 10 June 2010 (EDT)

:::::: Sounds like an interesting story wish I was able to read it. Maybe I will come across it in the future. Also in cases where there is no written source how should these types of things be referenced on conservapedia? [[User:Johnfranklin|Johnfranklin]] 11:41, 11 June 2010 (EDT)

::::::: Unlike Wikipedia, Conservapedia recognizes liberal bias in newspapers. Accordingly, not all newspapers citations are valid (due to bias), and some citations are difficult to find because liberals are censoring the information in publications they control. In the latter case, we keep looking when there is reason to think a statement is true, rather than censoring the truth to the detriment of visitors. Conservapedia is a leader, not a follower.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:56, 11 June 2010 (EDT)

(unident) I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but it sounds as though you are saying Add content to articles that is believed to be valid and then find sources that match rather than finding useful information and then putting it into the article. If you can't then just leave it unsourced. In that case I should add information about volcanoes since some believe that information in the bible (Sodom and Gomorrah) predates scientific knowledge. I however don't have sources for this. [[User:Johnfranklin|Johnfranklin]] 13:55, 11 June 2010 (EDT)

Until we have a citation for the medical knowledge that verifies the phenomenon of "trees walking", this "eyesight" portion has no factual basis and should be removed. [[User:PhyllisS|PhyllisS]] 21:43, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

== Engineering ==

Hmm... How does Joel 2:3-4 predict automobiles? Also, there is no Isaiah 31:56... although I definitely see how Ecc 10:20 could be a reference to radio! [[User:JacobB|JacobB]][[User talk:JacobB|Shout out!]] 23:46, 11 June 2010 (EDT)

: It was a suggestion taken from a credible site. I admit my skepticism about these alleged predictions of engineering developments also, but have an open mind about them. Obviously if there is no Isaiah 31:56, then that is a real problem! Please feel free to revise as you think appropriate.

: Of course, when [[Leonardo da Vinci]] sketched something flying, every atheist claims he had foreknowledge of the airplane!!!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:52, 11 June 2010 (EDT)
::Haha - ironic considering that though he disagreed with the Church of his day on many topics, he was nevertheless a practicing Catholic!
::A little bit of digging reveals Isaiah 40:31, which reads ''"But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."'' I wonder if that's the passage they meant? I'll change it to that, since 31:56 doesn't exist, although I confess your skepticism that these are actual references to airplanes. [[User:JacobB|JacobB]][[User talk:JacobB|Shout out!]] 00:09, 12 June 2010 (EDT)

::: I do believe that this was meant to be Isaiah 31:5 and the 6 was a mistake("Like birds hovering overhead, the LORD Almighty will shield Jerusalem; he will shield it and deliver it, he will 'pass over' it and will rescue it.") however I think the point the referenced article was trying to make was that one should not try to reinterpret biblical passages to make it fit what you want instead look at the context of what it it is trying to say and not just the verse. In this case Isaiah 31:5 is more about God keeping Jerusalem safe from Egypt and not about Airplanes flying over head. Unless of course God is keeping it safe with F-14. [[User:Johnfranklin|Johnfranklin]] 11:43, 13 June 2010 (EDT)

:::: I have an open mind about this, but admit that it struck me as too much of a reach.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:45, 13 June 2010 (EDT)

::::: Well, in the Six-Day War the Israeli Air Force did keep Jerusalem and Israel defended and safe from Eyptian planes by destroying most of them while they were still on the ground. Maybe the verses were telling contemporary Israelites and the future Israelis they were safe, but only the latter would understand that the birds represented air planes. It's possible. As Mr. Schlafly says, we should keep an open mind. --[[User:ReligiousRight|ReligiousRight]] 01:21, 14 June 2010 (EDT)

== Reversion explained ==

The opinion was reverted because it did not apply to the specific examples.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:56, 27 June 2010 (EDT)

== Incorrect value of Pi ==

''Pi when expressed as one digit is equal to 3'' - I think this sentence should be suppressed, because the text gives Pi with '''two''' decimal places, as the ratio of 30 cubits to 10 cubits. [[User:Sunda62|Sunda62]] 16:43, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

: No, "30 cubits to 10 cubits" is only one significant digit apiece.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:29, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

:: Aren't we overlooking 1 Kings 7:26? "And it was a hand breadth thick,.." The thickness must be taken into consideration. Using the equation 30C ÷ 3.1415962 + 2H = 10C. C=cubits, H=hand breadth. We are able to solve the equation using my cubit (18.5 inches), and we get:

::555 inches (30 x 18.5) circumference

::176.662 inches (555 ÷ 3.14159) diameter

::The difference between 185 inches(10x18.5) and 176.662 inches is 8.338 inches. This is two of my hand breadths!(8.338÷2=4.169) Remember, you must take into account two hand breadths, one for the opposite sides of the circular object.

::You can measure your own cubit from elbow to longest finger tip, and the difference will be two of your hand breadths!!

::This example of Pi should be in the foreknowledge section. Pi is in the Bible 1000 B.C. before the Greeks rediscovered Pi!--[[User:Bryantjwb|Bryantjwb]] 22:47, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

::: Interesting. Any comments by others on the validity of the above suggestion?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:51, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

:::: It can also be solved by using the description in scripture, 1 Kings 7:26 "...and its brim was made like the brim of a cup, as a lily blossom;"NASB In other words, the brim flared outward like a flowering lily. So, the diameter was measured from 'brim to brim' which flared out further than the body of the bath. [[http://creation.com/images/creation_mag/vol17/p24_moltensea.jpg]] Click to see illustration.--[[User:Bryantjwb|Bryantjwb]] 21:27, 19 August 2010 (EDT)

::::http://creation.com/does-the-bible-say-pi-equals-3

::::The calculation is the same as using the handbreadth equation above, the difference being the amount of flare beyond the body of the bath round about.--[[User:Bryantjwb|Bryantjwb]] 21:27, 19 August 2010 (EDT)

:::::There's a specific thing we all overlooked: people's bodily measurements for cubits and handbreadths are of different sizes. My personal handbreadth is 8.25 inches; my personal cubit is 18 inches exactly. Someone who is about 6.3 feet tall will have slightly-larger measurements. Moses was educated in Egypt, and he was familiar with the Royal Egyptian cubit of about 22 inches. So, I'm a bit curious here. Take my measurements and make some new calculations based on what was said above; take Andy's and do the same; take your's, Bryant, and do the same, and let's see what we get. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 22:53, 19 August 2010 (EDT)

::::::The size difference is not an issue, because they used a standard. The Hebrew standard cubit was about 18 inches and the handbreadth was about 4 inches. I used my cubit (18.5) in the equation above. Karajou, your handbreadth would be 4.125 with 8.25 being two handbreadths. Using the standard Hebrew cubit and handbreadth, plug in the numbers, 18 x 10 cubits = 180 - 8 = 172 inches

::::::Circumference = diameter x pi
::::::..............= 172 in x 3.14
::::::..............= 540 inches
::::::..............= 30 cubits (540 ÷ 18)--[[User:Bryantjwb|Bryantjwb]] 00:43, 20 August 2010 (EDT)

This section has a false title. The Bible does not "give a value of pi" but rather relates the circumference of a particular structure to its diameter:

* He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits [a] from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits [b] to measure around it.

Ten cubits doesn't mean 220 inches, plus or minus one inch. It's obviously a [[round number]]. Atheists are grasping at straws if they think the rim to rim distance was being givin to within less than 5 percent.

The tip off should be that both numbers were a multiple of ten. Now, if we saw a number like 35 cubits for the diameter, '''then''' we might expect a more precise value for the circumference, i.e., 110 cubits.

By drawing such foolish conclusions, atheists and liberals just show how inconsistent their own reasoning is, rather than "pointing out" any supposed error in the Bible.

I'd like to take it back to the Nobel Peace Prize they gave Al Gore and them all for ignoring the fact that [[correlation is not causation]] and deciding that atmospheric temperature is driven by carbon dioxide levels. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 17:10, 1 October 2010 (EDT)

== Biblical Hindsight is 20/20 ==

Biblical Hindsight is 20/20
The "eyesight" portion should be removed, not only as there is yet no ''citation for the medical knowledge that verifies the phenomenon of "trees walking"'' as [[User:PhyllisS]] states above, but because there is the dubious statement that ''This perception was first confirmed nearly 2000 years later as physicians developed medical techniques for restoring eyesight'', thereby inferring that the 20th century saw the first restored eyesights. In fact, couching the cataract - an operation which can restore eyesight - is very ancient, sanctioned as early as in the [[Code of Hammurabi]], was practiced by Celsus (25BC-50AD) during the lifetime of Jesus Christ and later [http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.02.0137:book=25:chapter=92&highlight=couching mentioned] by [[Pliny the Elder]] (23-79 AD), a contemporary of Mark (see [http://www.rila.co.uk/issues/free/001/2001/v4n2/p61_65/p61_65.html A short history of cataract surgery]). So, there were eyewitnesses for the phenomena go along with regaining your sight in the time of Mark.
[[User:FrankC|FrankC aka ComedyFan]] 13:06, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:Interesting, and I'd like to learn more, especially whether "couching the cataract" restored sight to the blind.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:00, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

:P.S. The cite explaining the history above does not describe the sensation of restoring sight from complete blindness.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:06, 7 July 2010 (EDT)

== Unclean hands and food ==

I may have misunderstood what you are trying to say perhaps, but to the best of my knowledge, washing one's hands before cooking and/or eating is one of the basic rules of hygiene, extremely important in the prevention of disease. My father is a doctor, and if he didn't perform this very simple step very seriously, after visiting patients with all sorts of ailments, his health would undoubtedly be threatened. And the importance of this simple procedure, to the best of my scientific knowledge, is very important not only for doctors, but for everyone.
Likewise, eating "unclean" food can and WILL make you ill - poorly conserved and poorly cooked food can have high amounts of patogens that can cause all sorts of trouble, from bacteria to viruses to tapeworms.

Matthew 15:11, "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man" does not, in my opinion, refer to the health of the human body, but rather to the health of the soul. No matter what you eat or how you eat it, your soul will not suffer because of it, is what, in my opinion, Jesus is saying. But the body can, and will, suffer, depending on what enters your mouth, and that is undeniable.

To say - as I think the article is stating - that unclean hands or unclean food do not cause disease is to turn your back on the very thing that extended the life expectancy of mankind so much in the past 1000 years, namely, proper hygiene. It also has the potential to cause harm to anyone who actually believes it, and thinks that eating "unclean" food or not following proper hygiene rules cannot really harm his health.

If you know of any relevant scientific source that says that eating "unclean food" or eating with "unclean hands" is not unadvisable, please post it for all to see.

Thank you, --[[User:MarcoT2|MarcoT2]] 08:59, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

: Thank you for your comment, but it illustrates how the medical misunderstanding of digestion persists even 2000 years after Jesus stated the real truth. It is not in Matthew 15:11 where Jesus explained why it is not necessary always to wash one's hands before eating, but somewhere in Mark (I think).

: Good hygiene is helpful and has extended lifespan, but usually not by protecting the digestive system. The digestive system is powerful enough to destroy nearly everything that is harmful. The reason people are told today to wash their hands is typically not to protect what they eat, but to avoid spreading to their eyes and nose and others, particularly to those with weak immune systems.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:27, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:: Dear Andrew,
:: Thanks for answering so quickly! Unfortunately, I cannot say I agree with you. Proper handwashing, especially before preparing or consuming meals, does prevent diseases - not only related to contact of patogens with eyes and nose, but also with contacts of patogens with the oral cavity, where they eventually end up in the stomach. According to the World Health Organization, ''Handwashing with soap is among the most effective and inexpensive ways to prevent diarrheal diseases and pneumonia, which together are responsible for the majority of child deaths.''<ref>http://www.who.int/gpsc/events/2008/Global_Handwashing_Day_Planners_Guide.pdf</ref> Diarrheal diseases, needless to say, involve the DIGESTIVE system. Stomach flu is also another disease of the digestive system which can be prevented in many cases by proper handwashing. Not washing one's hands before preparing or consuming a meal also provides helminths (aka worms) with an easy way in to your intestine. Again, another potential problem to the digestive trait whose risk can be easily cut by handwashing. So the digestive system does not appeas to "destroy nearly everything that is harmful" as you seem to claim. Of course, our immunitary system does a good job, but it is not an invincible shield. And, of course people with weak immune systems (children, old people, people with immunitary diseases) will have even more risks, but not washing one's hands is a potential health hazard for healthy people, as well.
::For more information please refer to this WHO document about the importance of handwashing. http://www.who.int/gpsc/events/2008/Global_Handwashing_Day_Planners_Guide.pdf
::If you have any scientific source which supports your point of view, by all means provide a link or a reference, I'm always happy to examine other points of view too.
::Thank you,
::--[[User:MarcoT2|MarcoT2]] 11:05, 11 July 2010 (EDT)
::<references />

:::Catching disease by having unclean hands at a meal is a grossly exaggerated risk, like other phobias. Worse, educated people who should know better are the ones who exaggerate this risk the most. I'm not saying the risk is zero; other exaggerated fears have some theoretical basis also. But Jesus was right in debunking this fear and the theory behind it. Science is still trying to catch up to where Jesus was 2000 years ago on this.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:57, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

::::(link dump reverted) Marco, I reverted your dump of links. I looked at the first two and found them to be barely related to the point at issue here. This site is a place for reasoned argument. Please address my statement above or make another reasoned argument, supported by your best link or two. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:49, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::Washing one's hands reduces the risk that you'll put germs into your eyes.

:::::*As you touch people, surfaces and objects throughout the day, you accumulate germs on your hands. In turn, you can infect yourself with these germs by touching your eyes, nose or mouth. [http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hand-washing/HQ00407]

:::::You don't have to worry about germs getting into your food unless you've been touching human waste. But if you serve hundreds of people, the law requires you to wash your hands after using the bathroom. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:57, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::: In response to the indented comment above, it says nothing about touching food with unclean hands and eating it, which is the point of this discussion. Ed's point about the law requiring hand-washing by food preparers after handling human waste is well-taken, but the law does not required this of the people who eat the food.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:07, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::: Dear Andy, I don't understand why you "found my links to be barely related to the point at issue here". Let's see if we can agree on the following points:

:::::::1. The point at issue here is the importance of handwashing as a precautionary hygienic measure.
:::::::2. What is at issue is also whether such measure is especially important before consuming food.
:::::::3. The links I have provided, and which I can provide again should you so desire, were scientific studies examining the incidence of several diseases, most of them involving the digestive trait, in subjects that routinely wash their hands, and subjects that don't.
:::::::4. Such studies concluded that the incidence of said diseases was considerably lower in those who wash their hands.

:::::::In light of this, I don't see why you claimed that the links I provided were only "barely related". I also don't see why you reverted my edit and deleted it, instead of simply replying to my post saying that the links were only marginally related. Had you done so, people could have accessed them and decided for themselves whether it was true that they were unrelated or not. As it is, they only have your word that they were.

:::::::I can spend my time and energies to provide you with a reasoned, sourced refutation of your point, but before I do so, I need your assurance that it will not be censored. (I will of course not be abusive or offensive in any way: I will only expose my point of view, and back it up with sources.)

:::::::If you assure me that my post will not be reverted and deleted, I will write it. Otherwise, I will refrain from commenting further on this debate.

:::::::Sincerely yours, --[[User:MarcoT2|MarcoT2]] 16:34, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::Marco, I pointed out that Jesus was right in debunking an irrational phobia about eating with unclean hands. You responded with a link dump that lacked any sense of proportionality (risk), or applicability to the typical situation that Jesus was addressing. It's as though I said that the typical fear of flying is irrational, whereby you respond with a link dump of news stories about random plane crashes!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:41, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

:::::::::Ok, we can agree on that, one will not automatically die every time he has lunch without washing his hands. The risk is not high, and scaremongering is unnecessary. Yet, in my opinion, handwashing before eating should be considered an important hygienic practice, and, in some contexts, even vital. The importance is especially evident in underdeveloped countries, where even the adoption of a simple practice like this can save many lives. What I think we can agree on is, "not washing hands before eating is not deadly nor incredibly dangerous, but it is nonetheless very advisable."
:::::::::This said, we can consider this debate concluded and move on to more constructive matters (personally, I like to spend my time on Conservapedia spellchecking articles :) )
:::::::::Regards, --[[User:MarcoT2|MarcoT2]] 17:09, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

::::::::::Marco, I appreciate your gracious reply, but I do feel compelled to emphasize that it was Jesus who was right 2000 years ago, not me. Moreover, I'm not trying to persuade you, but rather to observe that to this day even the smartest among us exaggerate the risk of eating with unwashed hands contrary to what Jesus simply stated. This risk is not zero, as you point out, but (like the risk of plane crashes) it is small enough to rebuke the fear-mongering.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:34, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

<- Andy, you are right when you are thinking about bacterial infections. But what about [http://newyorkhealth.gov/diseases/communicable/pinworm/fact_sheet.htm pinworms], [http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/parasites_and_foodborne_illness/index.asp#7 tapeworms], or [http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dpd/parasites/giardiasis/factsht_giardia.htm Giardia]? Especially under the more interesting hygienic conditions of the Near East, it is consoling to know that the man who breaks your bread has scrubbed his hands clean from all the worm's eggs which are designed to be taken in orally. [[User:FrankC|FrankC aka ComedyFan]] 11:54, 13 July 2010 (EDT)

:Your links are not applicable to the typical situation, as addressed by Jesus. This illustrates why Conservapedia favors reasoned argument, with a superb cite, rather than lack of argument with many cites.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:01, 13 July 2010 (EDT)

::''Your links are not applicable to the typical situation, as addressed by Jesus. ''
::What the typical situation, as addressed by Jesus? We read in Mark 7:1-5 (NIV)
:::''1The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and 2saw some of his disciples eating food with hands that were "unclean," that is, unwashed. 3(The Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they give their hands a ceremonial washing, holding to the tradition of the elders. 4When they come from the marketplace they do not eat unless they wash. And they observe many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pitchers and kettles.)''
::Or taken from the [[Conservapedia Bible Project]] Mark 7:3-4
:::''3The reason for this was that the Pharisees, along with all the other Jews, had a tradition never to eat unless they had washed their hands.4When they came from the public square, they did not eat unless they had washed first. They retained many other traditions, such as the washing of cups, pots, kettles, and tables.''
::This seems to be an excellent advice if you want for instance to minimize the chance of an infection with [[Intestinal Roundworm]]s (the most common human worm infection with the highest prevalence in tropical and subtropical regions, and areas with inadequate sanitation [http://www.dpd.cdc.gov/dpdx/html/ascariasis.htm]) in the ''typical situation'' in Galilee for centuries to come!
::Please keep in mind that what we think to be the ''typical situation'', i.e., Western standards of food preparation and disposition of fecal matters, is in fact an historical and geographical exception!
::[[User:FrankC|FrankC aka ComedyFan]] 12:07, 14 July 2010 (EDT)

== Other religions ==

Hello! I know that this is a preeminently Christian site, and I am a Christian myself, but I wanted to point out that other religions also claim that their sacred texts possess remarkable scientific foreknowledge. The Muslim have found passages in the Quran that, they claim, prove that the text was inspired by God, as they denote (in their opinion) a scientific knowledge ahead of the time. Also, the Hindu claim that ALL knowledge is contained in the Vedic texts. I believe it would be interesting to make a comparative study of that too, not of course in this article (which is devoted to the Bible) but in other articles. Does anyone else think that it would be interesting? --[[User:MarcoT2|MarcoT2]] 13:24, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

: I don't mind if you want to start different entries, as you suggest.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:34, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

== Mathematics suggestion ==

Here is the text of a suggestion I made that was reverted, which I submit for further discussion: --[[User:LanceS|LanceS]] 11:22, 25 September 2010 (EDT)

=== Axiomatization of Arithmetic ===
The full set of axioms for integer arithmetic may be found in the Bible, as demonstrated by J.C. Keister in [http://www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/027a-MathandtheBible.pdf this article]. For example, [[Luke 9-16 (Translated)|Luke 12:52]] is a striking statement of the commutative law for addition: "For from this point forward there will be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three." This understanding presaged both later attempts at the axiomatization of arithmetic by Peano and the development of [[abstract algebra]] in the 19th and 20th centuries.

:Your suggestion is interesting and the article by Keister appears to be legitimate. Perhaps the weakness is a lack of weightier examples. I welcome comments by others about this.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:35, 25 September 2010 (EDT)

::I appreciate the need for examples, but Keister gives extensive references for this claim in his article. I anxiously await the input of other editors.
::Could you clarify how Jesus walking on water is related to wave-particle duality, and how the scripture demonstrates foreknowledge of this? I think that showing foreknowledge of a phenomenon should be distinguished from merely documenting an instance of it. The Bible describes the Sun, but that fact alone does not mean that it shows foreknowledge of the specific mechanisms of nuclear fusion. --[[User:LanceS|LanceS]] 11:31, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

::: Go ahead and reinsert your material about axioms for integer arithmetic.

::: Will respond to your other question a bit later. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:20, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

::: As to your comment that "I think that showing foreknowledge of a phenomenon should be distinguished from merely documenting an instance of it," that's not the approach taken by the Nobel Prize committee. It recognizes the discovery of phenomena (such as cosmic background radiation) regardless of whether the scientists understand its theoretical basis. Obviously many people refuse to read the Bible and thus miss out on the benefit of its foreknowledge. Had scientists carefully studied the walking on water with an open mind, then it may not have taken 1900 years before they recognized the existence of wave-particle duality. Ditto for many other phenomena.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:30, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

== Wave particle Duality ==

I have to disagree that the Bible passage that is included describes wave-particle duality, and therefore that this is scientific foreknowledge. The sentence "Particles are subject to gravity; waves are not." is not completely true, as sources of high gravity can affect waves. This, though is not my real concern.

My main concern is that, for Jesus to act like a wave, he would have to have been moving very fast. Using the De Broglie Theory of Matter, <math></math>λ=h/p
where λ is the wavelenght, h is Planck constant (ie, 6.63*10-34) and p is momentum (p=mv). Using that equation and some assumptions, Mass of about 70kg, 2ms-1 walking speed (average walking speed is about 1 - 1.5 ms-1), this would give a wavelenght that is undetectable to human beings (~4.735*10-36), especially without modern equipment.

However, it would be possible for it to happen if the water had properties like that of custard. But as I said at the start, I do not think this is a piece of scienctific foreknowledge. If I am completely honest, it seems more like an attempt to make sciencetific theories appear to have been shown in the bible.

On a completely differnet point, the stars being unnumerable, I feel that any person at that time, that looked up to the sky at night could be able to make the assumption that the stars are unnumerable. Just because science hasn't confirmed something, doesn't mean it is not true. Science probably was unable to confirm something because the technology was not present at teh time. [[User:Griffirg|Griffirg]] 14:24, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

: Griffirg, your spelling is atrocious. As to your basic point, waves can take on many different forms.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:20, 27 September 2010 (EDT)
:: As for the stars, reasonable people at that time thought that there were just some 2,000 stars. The 6,000 stars was an extrapolation, including unseen stars in the Southern Hemisphere. I came across this 2,000-stars number some time ago, probably in [[Hyginus]]'s Astronomica. In Hyginus, the Milky Way is ''not'' formed by stars - see the last chapter. [[User:Sunda62|Sunda62]] 14:08, 29 September 2010 (EDT)

== Lifespan ==

The deletion of material was reverted. The deletion was of more insights than the comment could justify. Please discuss here if anyone wants to defend the deletion.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:50, 4 October 2010 (EDT)

:Jeanne Calment lived to be 122, but obviously she was a woman, so I'm not sure if that point even matters. Also, Shigechiyo Izumi's age was disputed, and research after his death claims that he actually died at the ripe old age of 105, which is still impressive. [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 11:05, 4 October 2010 (EDT)

Creedence Clearwater Revival

2010-10-03T02:45:44Z

JaneX: Fogerty died in 1990.

Natives of California John Fogerty, born May 28, 1945,
his brother Tom, born November 9, 1941, Stuart Alden Cook,
born April 25, 1945, and Doug “Cosmo” Clifford, born
April 24, 1945, formed '''Creedence Clearwater Revival''' in 1968.

After several unsuccessful releases in the [[San Francisco Bay Area]],
they hit the top ten nationally for the first time in 1968 with
Susie Q”. In 1969 “Proud Mary”, “Bad Moon Rising”, “Green River” and
“Down on the Corner” all landed in the top ten.

The same was true in 1970 with “Travelin Band”, “Up Around the Bend”
and “Lookin’ Out My Back Door”. 1971 brought more success with
“Sweet Hitch-Hiker" and " Have You Ever Seen The Rain”,
both top ten singles.

Their albums ''Creedence Clearwater Revival'', ''Bayou Country'',
''Green River'', ''Willy and the Poor Boys'' and ''Cosmo’s Factory''
each reached the top ten also.

In 1993 Creedence Clearwater Revival was inducted into the
[[Rock and Roll Hall of Fame]] and in 2005 John Fogerty was
inducted into the [[Songwriters Hall of Fame]].

In 1990 Tom Fogerty died, he was 48 years of age.

[[Category:Rock Bands]]

Do the Right Thing (1989)

2010-10-01T03:16:57Z

JaneX:

'''Do the Right Thing''' (1989) is a movie starring, written and directed by [[Spike Lee]] which explores themes of interracial friendship and hatred. It takes place on the hottest day of the year in the Bedford-Stuyvesant section of [[Brooklyn]], on a black and Puerto Rican street where the corner store is Korean-owned, and the local pizzeria is owned by an Italian-American whose son is friends with pizza delivery man Mookie (played by Spike Lee).

[[Roger Ebert]] wrote:
*... it comes closer to reflecting the current state of race relations in America than any other movie of our time. [http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19890630/REVIEWS/906300301/1023]
*I walked out of the screening at the Cannes Film Festival with tears in my eyes. Spike Lee had done an almost impossible thing. He'd made a movie about race in America that empathized with all the participants. He didn't draw lines or take sides but simply looked with sadness at one racial flashpoint that stood for many others. [http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20010527/REVIEWS08/105270301/1023]

==External Links==
*[http://course1.winona.edu/pjohnson/h140/thing.htm scholarly review] - but easily readable
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7UZ9g8wvFI an incident] - "bike bump"
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsFjlLXP9GU&feature=related another incident] - "buying batteries"

[[Category:Movies]]

Template:PittsburghSteelers

2010-10-01T02:54:34Z

JaneX: Updated roster

{| align="center" class="toccolours" style="background:white;border:2px solid rgb(193,193,193); text-align: left;font-size:95%;" cellpadding="10px"
|-
!colspan="7" style="font-size:100%; background-color: rgb(0,0,0); text-align:center; border: 2px solid rgb(255,255,255)" | Pittsburgh Steelers Roster

|-
| valign="top" | '''Quarterbacks'''
* 7 [[Ben Roethlisberger]]
* 4 [[Byron Leftwich]]
* 2 [[Dennis Dixon]]
* 16 [[Charlie Batch]]

'''Running Backs'''
* 27 ''[[Jonathan Dwyer]]''
* 34 [[Rashard Mendenhall]]
* 21 [[Mewelde Moore]]
* 33 [[Isaac Redman]]

'''Wide Receivers'''
* 81 [[Arnaz Battle]]
* 84 ''[[Antonio Brown]]'' KR
* 82 [[Antwaan Randle El]] PR
* 88 ''[[Emmanuel Sanders]]''
* 17 [[Mike Wallace]]
* 86 [[Hines Ward]]

| valign="top" |'''Tight Ends'''
* 85 [[David Johnson]] FB
* 83 [[Heath Miller]]
* 89 [[Matt Spaeth]]

'''Offensive Tackles'''
* 71 [[Flozell Adams]]
* 66 [[Tony Hills]]
* 72 [[Jonathan Scott]]
* 78 [[Max Starks]]

'''Guards'''
* 79 [[Trai Essex]]
* 73 [[Ramon Foster]]
* 68 [[Chris Kemoeatu]]

'''Centers'''
* 64 [[Doug Legursky]]
* 53 ''[[Maurkice Pouncey]]''

| valign="top" | '''Linebackers'''
* 51 [[James Farrior]] ILB
* 50 [[Larry Foote]] ILB
* 57 [[Keyaron Fox]] ILB
* 90 ''[[Thaddeus Gibson]]'' OLB
* 92 [[James Harrison]] OLB
* 55 ''[[Stevenson Sylvester]]'' ILB
* 94 [[Lawrence Timmons]] ILB
* 56 [[LaMarr Woodley]] OLB
* 97 ''[[Jason Worilds]]'' OLB

'''Cornerbacks'''
* 28 ''[[Crezdon Butler]]''
* 22 [[William Gay]]
* 23 [[Keenan Lewis]]
* 20 [[Bryant McFadden]]
* 37 [[Anthony Madison]]
* 24 [[Ike Taylor]]

'''Safeties'''
* 29 [[Ryan Mundy]]
* 43 [[Troy Polamalu]]
* 25 [[Ryan Clark]]
* 26 [[Will Allen]]

| valign="top" |'''Special Teams'''
*  3 [[Jeff Reed]] K
*  17 [[Mitch Berger]] P
*  9 [[Daniel Sepulveda]] P

'''Defensive Ends'''
* 93 [[Nick Eason]]
* 96 [[Ziggy Hood]]
* 99 [[Brett Keisel]]
* 91 [[Aaron Smith]]

'''Defensive Tackles'''
* 98 [[Casey Hampton]]
* 76 [[Chris Hoke]]

''Rookies in italics''
|-
| colspan="2" |'''Coaches'''
*[[Mike Tomlin]] Head Coach
*[[John Mitchell]] Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Line
*[[Bruce Arians]] Offensive Coordinator
*[[Dick LeBeau]] Defensive Coordinator
|colspan="2"|
|}<noinclude>

<includeonly>[[Category:National Football League]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Category:Navigation box|{{PAGENAME}}]]
{{TemplateDoc|pages=Pittsburgh Steelers|purpose=Roster section|cat=National Football League}}
{{Parms|
}}