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		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=World_History_Lecture_Three&amp;diff=714952</id>
		<title>World History Lecture Three</title>
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		<updated>2009-10-29T05:19:16Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;[[World History Lecture One|1]]-[[World History Lecture Two|2]]-[[World History Lecture Three|3]]-[[World History Lecture Four|4]]-[[World History Lecture Five|5]]-[[World History Lecture Six|6]]-[[World History Lecture Seven|7]]-[[World History Lecture Eight|8]]-[[World History Lecture Nine|9]]-[[World History Lecture Ten|10]]-[[World History Lecture Eleven|11]]-[[World History Lecture Twelve|12]]-[[World History Lecture Thirteen|13]]-[[World History Lecture Fourteen|14]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We take a break this week from Western Civilization and instead turn to the great ancient empires in the East:  India and China.  This requires learning about many new religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism.  Then we conclude by returning to the Middle East and discussing the rise of Christianity.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Let's ask ourselves at the outset:  why learn about any religion other than Christianity?  Some Christians might conclude that, having found their faith, there is no reason to study non-Christian religions.  When you find something good, then it is not advantageous to divert your time and energy to something less good.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But there are several valid reasons to study other religions.  Christian missionaries, for example, need to understand the religions of the peoples they are attempting to convert.  World leaders and travelers should understand the different religious views of peoples they encounter, even if they are not trying to convert them.  In business it is important to know the values and beliefs of people with whom you deal.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just as language shapes a culture's success and way of thinking, religion plays a large role in society.  It is easy to see the differences between, for example, Islamic and Christian culture.  Each has its own way of life, dress, social structure, and much more.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is also possible that learning about other religions, and how they differ from Christianity, can strengthen one's appreciation of Christianity.  Christianity has spread more than any other religion, moving from the Middle East to the Roman Empire to the Northern Barbarians in Europe and eventually to all of Africa and both North and South America.  Islam, in contrast, has always been strongest in the Middle East, where it began, and hasn't spread nearly as wide as Christianity or as far across different social classes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One final reason to study different religions and cultures is to see how distant peoples struggled with religious issues without the benefit of Christianity and came to certain conclusions about life, morals, and unseen truth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== India ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Little information survives concerning the history of ancient India.  There was immigration into the region around 3000 B.C., or perhaps in the 2000s B.C., by people who called themselves &amp;quot;nobles&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Aryans&amp;quot;, a term we explained in the prior lecture.  These immigrants spoke an Indo-European language which formed the basis for Sanskrit, which is the standard ancient language of India just as Latin is the standard ancient language of Europe.  Yet while Latin is a dead language today, Sanskrit is still an official language in India.  The scriptures of Hinduism are written in Sanskrit.  The most sacred of these scripts form the [[Vedas]] and [[Upanishads]], which are considered to have the most authority, importance, and antiquity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:India rel01.jpg|400px|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Ancient India ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The roots of ancient India were settlements in the fertile Indus River Valley, in what is now Pakistan and northwest India (see the map on the right).  This was one of the most fertile regions in the world at the time, with plentiful farm products and animals.  The region was surrounded in the north by the Himalaya mountains, protected to the west by the Indu Kush mountains, and insulated from the east by the Great Indian Desert.  Just as Egypt had unique geographic protections against invasion by foreign enemies, so did the Indus River Valley.  Two cities have been discovered there:  Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa (pronounced &amp;quot;huh-ROP-uh&amp;quot;).  Other small towns have also been unearthed.  This ancient civilization existed from about 3000 B.C. to 1300 B.C., and its peak was 2600 to 1900 B.C.  It is known as the Indus Valley Civilization or Harappan Civilization, named after its big city, Harappa.  These early settlements existed long before ''classical'' Indian civilization, which thrived from 300 B.C. to A.D. 500 (similar in time to the Roman Empire).  The early settlements of ancient India, dating back to 3000 B.C., are among the largest ancient civilizations we know of.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Writings have been found from ancient India, but no one has been able to decipher them yet.  The reason these writings are so difficult to decipher is that the symbols are extremely tiny, and all the writings we have contain only a few of these symbols.  This is a good task for young experts in language!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In terms of technology, the inhabitants of these ancient settlements were quite advanced.  The ancient peoples of the Indus River Valley civilization had advanced use of water:  pipes, drains and even indoor bathrooms.  They were precise with mathematics, and used this skill to measure weight and mass accurately.  But unlike most other civilizations in the 2000s B.C., the ruins of Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa do not contain any large palaces or monuments to false gods.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ancient Indian people survived on agriculture and traded with Mesopotamia, but many of the inhabitants were tradesmen, as artistic artifacts from Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa illustrate.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As mentioned above, the fertile land and geographic protection of the Indus River Valley allowed and facilitated success by early civilizations there.  The Sarasvati River, which is named after a Hindu goddess, was the largest in ancient India, flowing west of Delhi and providing water to a fertile region as described in the Rig Veda, which is the most fundamental of the sacred Vedic Hindu texts.  (The river has since completely dried up, but was proven to have existed by satellite photographs of India.)  Food and commerce in the Indus River Valley was based on barley (yava), copper (ayas) and cattle.  By 2600 B.C., the Indus-Sarasvati civilization became the largest civilization in the ancient world, spreading from Pakistan to many areas of India today.  It had trade connections with Mesopotamia, Afghanistan, Central Asia and elsewhere.  Its population is estimated to have been 100,000, which is far more than most cities in New Jersey today.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By 2000 B.C., the world's population was 27 million, 22% of which lived in India.  Interestingly, India still contains a high percentage of the world's population, but not quite as high as back then: today India has 16% or so of the world's population, or about 1 billion people.  Three of the world's ten most populated cities today are in India: Bombay (recently renamed as Mumbai), Calcutta and Delhi.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The collapse of the Indus Civilization came about from a mixture of geographic and human forces. Sometime around 2000 B.C., the course of the Indus River shifted away from various centers of civilization. This was compounded in the years up to 1500 B.C. by the hostile incursions of Indo-European (Aryan) nomads invading through the Bolan and Khyber passes in the Hindu Kush mountain range.  The Aryans spoke Sanskrit, an Indo-European language.  They conquered the Dravidians and forced them southward into what is now India.  Religious (Hindu, the adjective for Hinduism) literature describes these struggles in the &amp;quot;Rig Veda&amp;quot; and two long poems known as the &amp;quot;Mahabharata&amp;quot; and the &amp;quot;Ramayana&amp;quot;.  By 900 B.C. iron smelting was discovered and became useful in making weapons and tools to clear fields and the jungle for agriculture.  The Aryans were very successful in cultivating the land along the banks of the Ganges River Valley, aided by forceful winds known as monsoons that brought rain from the Indian Ocean.  Rice was the most popular crop, and remains the world's leading crop even today.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By 975 B.C., King Hiram of Phoenicia encouraged trade between India and King Solomon of Israel.  In 950 B.C., Jewish people arrived in India in King Solomon's merchant fleet, and later established colonies there.  Around the same time, perhaps due to increased trade, Sanskrit began to decline as the spoken language of India.  Priestly Sanskrit was later refined between 750 and 250 B.C.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some of the people in the Indus River Valley likely migrated southeast to what is India today.  The Vedic (pronounced VAYD-ik) civilization existed from about 1500 to 500 B.C., and is credited with developing the religion and culture of Hinduism (explained further below).  Note that the &amp;quot;classical&amp;quot; civilization of India came later, after this foundation had been laid.  Classical India consisted of two major empires:  the Mauryan Empire (322-185 B.C.) and the Gupta Empire (A.D. 320-467).  Before, during and after these empires there was very little in the way of a central government, and thus, India is best understood by studying its major religion, Hinduism.  This is one of the oldest and longest-surviving religions in the history of the world.  India is also the origin of two other major religions, Buddhism and Jainism.  One of Jesus' Apostles (Thomas) went to India and established a Christian community there that thrives to this day.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Classical Indian Civilization ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The beginning of classical India was when the Achaemenid Persians invaded the Indus Valley region in 572 B.C.  Aryans led by Magadha joined together to repel the Persians, but internal religious conflict prevented unity.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Later Alexander the Great invaded this region in 327 B.C., spreading [[Greeks|Greek]] influence.  The time Alexander's troops spent in India must have been a strange experience for them.  For example, they had never seen elephants.  Imagine their surprise when the Indians fought from atop these massive creatures during a battle on the banks of the river.  In that same battle, Alexander's favorite horse, Buchephalus, was injured and died.  After that, Alexander wanted to continue East, but his troops refused, and he was forced to leave India unconquered.  So only India was able to stop Alexander the Great, or at least survive his conquests.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Afterward, in 322 B.C., Chandragupta Mauryan defeated the Greek general Seleucus, who ruled a large part of Western Asia which Alexander the Great had conquered.  Chandragupta Mauryan became king of Seleucus' land, creating the largest Indian empire in India's history.  He built an elaborate capital city at Pataliputra, which surpassed even the splendor of the great Persian cities, and was the largest city in the world at that time, with over 150,000 inhabitants.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.tiscali.co.uk/reference/encyclopaedia/hutchinson/m0038472.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; It was home to several Buddhist monasteries.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chandragupta Mauryan built a massive army of 500,000 soldiers and his adviser, Kautilya, wrote a book how to maintain political power entitled the &amp;quot;Arthashastra&amp;quot;.  He wrote that punishment was the key to government.  In other words, Chandragupta was a tough dictator.  But his name is revered, as many Indians to this day bear the last name of &amp;quot;Chandra&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Gupta&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chandragupta's grandson, Ashoka, underwent a religious conversion from Hinduism to Buddhism while he held power (268-232 B.C.).  Buddhism emphasizes non-violence and Ashoka's conversion caused him to rule as a benevolent dictator, stressing compassion and even apologizing for his role in killing 150,000 Indians!  He displayed tolerance towards all religions and helped erect shrines to Hinduism and Jainism, another religion of India.  Ashoka elevated the status of women, who were already highly respected under the Hindu culture.  In Buddhism women could become monks.  He also promoted trade with the expanding Roman empire to the West, and with the growing Han dynasty in China to the East.  But after Ashoka died, the empire fell into civil war, and became vulnerable to outside invaders, such as the Bactrian Greeks in the second century B.C. and the Buddhist Kushan in 100 B.C.  A council of Buddhist monks was convened under Kanishka, King of Kushan, to regulate Buddhism, and the result was a new form of Buddhism:  Mahayana Buddhism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other major Indian empire was the Gupta empire, from A.D. 320 to 467.  In A.D. 320 Chandra Gupta I rose to power, who had no connection with the prior ruler Chandragupta Mauryan.  Chandra Gupta I conquered the Ganges Valley, and established a new Hindu dynasty.  Trade with the rest of the world flourished under his regime, and he had a policy of religious tolerance.  Intellectual and economic achievement was high.  One famous poet and playwright was Kalidasa, who wrote epic poems and plays that were much more upbeat and happy than the dreary Greek tragedies.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Indian number system developed, which was later misnamed the &amp;quot;Arabic numerals.&amp;quot;  The entire world used this system of numbering today: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc.  A Buddhist monastery at Nalanda established a university that attracted thousands of students.  A great Indian doctor named Caraka developed a code of medical ethics, and the practice of medicine flourished.  The Indians also developed a form of iron that could withstand rust, and it was used in buildings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Hinduism ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hinduism was, and is, one of the most powerful and resilient religions in the history of the world.  In the 20th century it withstood communism; throughout history it withstood evangelism by other religions; and in the last millennium it withstood Islam.  We shall see whether it continues to survive against Islam in this century.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hinduism is an ancient polytheistic religion, consisting of multiple gods who were ultimately thought to be part of one god: Brahma, the supreme god of life.  The name &amp;quot;Hindu&amp;quot; comes from the word Hindustan, the Persian word for riverland; the birth of Hinduism was the merger of the Upanishadic and Vedic religious traditions in ancient India.  Muslim invaders of the A.D. 11th and 13th centuries began using the term &amp;quot;Hindu&amp;quot; to describe Indians from this region who were not Buddhists and who refused to convert to Islam.  In the A.D. 16th century European merchants and missionaries started using the term also.  But while Hinduism is not limited to one set of clear and specific beliefs, it does represent an overall belief system and today there are nearly one billion adherents to Hinduism in the world, nearly all of whom live in or emigrated from India.  (There are also significant Muslim and Christian populations in India today; Mother Theresa won a Nobel Peace Prize in 1980 for her Christian charity work there.)  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hinduism focuses on &amp;quot;The Eternal Way,&amp;quot; which means that certain spiritual principles are true for eternity, transcending what is man-made.  This is like a science of consciousness.  The advancement of knowledge is emphasized by Hinduism, and today many Indians can be found obtaining PhDs or medical degrees.  Many Indians (note that the term &amp;quot;Indian&amp;quot; in this lecture refers to South Asia) are entering engineering and similar high-tech professions, and American companies are gradually hiring more and more Indians for these jobs because of the high quality of their work and their willingness to work for less wages by American standards.  Politically, Hindus in the United States are more Republican than other immigrant groups.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hinduism encourages meditation using yoga.  Historically, Hindus believed in reincarnation, a belief that spread even to the Greek philosopher Pythagoras in 560 B.C.  Visitors to India are impressed or surprised by seeing cows wandering about, disrupting traffic and commerce.  The expression &amp;quot;sacred cow&amp;quot; comes from the belief in reincarnation, and the view that a cow may be the reincarnation of one of your ancestors or deceased relatives.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The basic belief of Hinduism is in a cycle of life often represented by a dancing woman in a ring of fire, who is the god &amp;quot;Shiva&amp;quot; representing creation and destruction.  Other symbols are the god Brahma representing creation and the god Vishnu representing preservation or continuance of life.  In Hindu statutes a flat palm facing the onlooker represents peace, while a drum symbolizes creation.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1966, the Supreme Court of India defined what Hinduism is for legal purposes:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. 	Belief in the authority of the Vedas (ancient hymns to the gods, written in Sanskrit).  The oldest collection of hymns in the Vedas is the Rig Veda, which was written between 1800 and 1300 B.C.  The greatest Veda hymn is the &amp;quot;Bhagavad Gita,&amp;quot; a section in the Mahabharata concerning life's never-ending spiritual journey towards perfection, to be attained by adhering to a code of conduct.   The Bhagavad Gita is a spiritual guide to life's problems, like the parables of Christianity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2. 	Spirit of tolerance and willingness to understand and respect an opponent's view.  Hinduism adapts to and incorporates other belief systems.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3. 	Belief in world rhythms: long periods of creation, maintenance and dissolution follow each other in endless succession. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4. 	Belief in reincarnation (rebirth) and pre-existence.  Your instructor knows a Hindu who says his misfortune must be due to his having sinned in a prior life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5. 	Belief that there are many ways to salvation.  Many Hindus greatly respect Jesus, for example.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6. 	Belief that the number of gods to be worshiped may be large, although some Hindus reject the worship of gods altogether.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
7. 	Unlike most other religions, Hinduism is not defined by a specific set of philosophical concepts. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Lacking from this modern legal definition is the caste system set forth in the Code of Manu, whereby the accumulation of a person's good deeds (or evil acts) in his prior lives (his &amp;quot;karma&amp;quot;) determine whether he is born into a family at a higher or lower caste level, or even lower as an animal or plant.  Upon full compliance with the Hindu moral code, the person is released from the &amp;quot;wheel of life&amp;quot; and attains unity with Brahma (universal all).  This belief is known as &amp;quot;Moksha&amp;quot;.  Obviously the caste system is politically incorrect today, with many Hindus believing in it privately but reluctant to speak about it publicly.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The highest caste is the &amp;quot;Brahmans&amp;quot; (priests and scholars).  This term has been incorporated in a non-religious sense into English (spelled as &amp;quot;Brahmins&amp;quot;) to mean wealthy, aloof New England families, like the 2004 Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry's family.  The traditional goal of Hindus is to reach Brahma, or spiritual perfection, by observing dharma (DER-muh) (moral or religious duties of your caste).  Below the Brahmans in the Hindu case system are the Kshatriya (rulers), the Vaishya (peasants), and then the serfs (Shudra).  Below the lowest caste level are the &amp;quot;untouchables&amp;quot; or [[Harijans]], who are slaves and outcasts.  As noted above, few talk publicly about the caste system any more because it is so politically incorrect.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In Hindu society, a woman was generally treated like a dependent to be taken care of and supervised by her father, husband or brother.  Government was by a local prince or &amp;quot;raja&amp;quot;, also spelled as &amp;quot;rajah&amp;quot;.  The English word &amp;quot;raj&amp;quot; means reign.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The omission of the traditional caste system from the Indian Supreme Court's modern definition illustrates how Hinduism adapts to changing times (and political correctness).  This remarkable ability to adapt has helped Hinduism survive for thousands of years and become one of the oldest surviving religions.  For example, Hinduism survived the threat posed by the rival religion Buddhism simply by treating the founder of Buddhism like another god and adding him to the religion.  Hinduism has treated Christianity in a similar manner, by accepting Jesus as &amp;quot;a&amp;quot; God.  Today India is 82% Hindu.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
Hinduism holds a special reverence for all living creatures, and violence against life is prohibited.  Abortion was traditionally rare in India, but some report that it has increased greatly in recent decades as the country is industrialized and influenced by Western atheistic beliefs.  The attitude towards women in Hinduism is of special respect in the family structure.  Women obeyed their husbands under Hinduism.  A much-criticized (but rare) practice in India was for a wife, after her husband's death, to throw herself on her husband's funeral pyre to die as a way of honoring him.  This is known as &amp;quot;sati&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;suttee&amp;quot; (suh-TEE).  Hinduism practices cremation of the deceased.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you see a physician in American who is of Indian descent you may find the &amp;quot;Oath of the Hindu Physician&amp;quot; hanging on his wall:  &amp;quot;... Speak the truth; Not eat met; Care for the good of all living beings; ... Be simply clothed and drink no intoxicant; ... Consider time and place; Always seek to grow in knowledge; ... Never take a present from a woman without her husband's consent; ... What happens in the house [of the patient] must not be mentioned outside ....&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hinduism has been the backbone of Indian culture for thousands of years.  This religion enabled Indians to survive countless invasions, such as by Alexander the Great in 327 B.C. when he conquered most of the Indus valley.  Not even Alexander and the Hellenistic influence could change Indian culture much.  Hinduism has also withstood both Islam and communism.  The Hindu faith is extremely resilient to foreign beliefs, and the survival of Hinduism protected the Indian culture and way of life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Jainism ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jainism is a branch of Hinduism that emphasizes the principle of non-violence towards all life.  Jainism requires strict vegetarianism, for example.  Jainism was founded by Mahavira (540-468 B.C.), who taught self-denial and non-violence against any form of life.  Jainism's strict requirements of self-denial caused it to lose popularity, but the religion remained strong and today has over 4 million adherents worldwide (including 7000 in the U.S.).  It influenced Gandhi later in India, and Ralph Waldo Emerson in the United States.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Once your instructor was approached for advice by a physician who is an adherent to Jainism, and your instructor first asked if the physician performed abortions because your instructor was not going to help him if he did.  But that question reflected a misunderstanding of Jainism by your instructor, because it strictly prohibits abortion and the taking of any life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Unlike Hinduism, Jainism rejects the authority of the Vedas, the sacred scriptures of Hinduism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Buddhism ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Siddhartha Gautama was a royal Hindu prince who lived from 563 to 483 B.C.  As a young prince he was disturbed by seeing suffering in old people and also sick people.  On one occasion, he saw a dead body (a corpse) and was deeply upset by it.  As a Hindu, Prince Siddhartha believed in reincarnation but the possibility of repeated suffering in many lives disturbed him further.  According to legend, he meditated for a long time under a tree and emerged from it as the &amp;quot;Enlightened One&amp;quot; who founded the new religion of Buddhism.  Once he became the Buddha, his followers referred to him as &amp;quot;Buddha Shakyamuni&amp;quot; (&amp;quot;Shakya&amp;quot; is the name of his royal family and &amp;quot;Muni&amp;quot; means &amp;quot;Able One.&amp;quot;), or simply &amp;quot;the Buddha&amp;quot; for short.  The term &amp;quot;Buddha&amp;quot; today can also apply to any &amp;quot;Awakened One&amp;quot; in the religion of Buddhism.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although the above paragraph refers to Buddhism as a &amp;quot;religion&amp;quot;, that is disputed by many.  Buddhism has no &amp;quot;God&amp;quot;, and is often described as a &amp;quot;belief system&amp;quot; rather than as a &amp;quot;religion&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Siddhartha declared that happiness is found not by improving one's &amp;quot;karma&amp;quot; under Hinduism, but by embracing Four Noble Truths:  (1) suffering is universal, (2) craving or desire causes it, (3) the cure is to eliminate the craving or desire, and (4) following the Eightfold Path helps eliminate this desire in order to attain &amp;quot;nirvana&amp;quot;.  Nirvana is a release from suffering to attain inner peace and complete contentment.  The Eightfold Path is a multifaceted guide to nirvana that relies on wisdom (right view and intention); ethics (right speech, action &amp;amp; livelihood); and mind (right effort, mindfulness &amp;amp; concentration).  In other words, the Eightfold Path is a system of meditation that can be followed by anyone at any social or caste level, which makes Buddhism more attractive to the lower class than Hinduism, which calls them untouchables.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Legend states that forty-nine (49) days after the Buddha's enlightenment, he began teaching.  He taught the first Wheel of &amp;quot;Dharma&amp;quot; (one's duty or nature) to achieve protection from suffering.  The Buddha also taught the Hinayana, or Lesser Vehicle, of Buddhism. Later, the Buddha taught the second and third Wheels of Dharma.  Together these teachings became the source of the Mahayana, or Great Vehicle, of Buddhism.  The Hinayana teaching describes how to attain freedom from suffering for oneself alone.  The Mahayana teaching describes how to attain full enlightenment (&amp;quot;Buddhahood&amp;quot;) for the sake of others.  The Buddha encouraged everyone to practice Dharma to improve inner peace and happiness, and improve the quality of life.  Inner peace is considered under Buddhism to be the key to outward peace.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is the practice of Buddhism like?  Buddhists seek a moral life that emphasizes meditation.  The goal of the meditation is to end cravings and desires and attain a release from suffering, or &amp;quot;nirvana&amp;quot;.  Buddhism encourages increased wisdom and understanding.  Buddhists tend not to proselytize aggressively, but fully accept converts.  There are Buddhists in most countries today.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Founded in India, Buddhism has grown to become the fourth largest world religion (behind Christianity, Islam and Hinduism, in that order).  A strict version of Buddhism spread in Southeast Asia (e.g., Cambodia and Vietnam).  A more liberal (less strict) version spread into China, Japan and Korea.  Buddhism has a larger following in the U.S. today than Hinduism, but Hinduism is much stronger than Buddhism in India.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are many statues of the Buddha, and they vary from country to county to show the Buddha as an inhabitant of the local country.  The hand position (mudras) in the statute shows whether the Buddha is teaching, giving a blessing, or meditating.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Comparison of Hinduism with Buddhism ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Buddhism is less moral than Hinduism, which is highly moral and based on castes.  Buddhism welcomes all and has an easier time gain converts than Hinduism does.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are many similarities between the two religions.  Buddha himself was a Hindu.  Here is a list of what Hinduism and Buddhism have in common:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1.  Both religions promote meditation or other forms of spiritual practice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2.  Both religions preach non-violence towards all forms of life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3.  Both religions believe in karma in binding people to this world, and believe in a cycle of births and deaths (reincarnation).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4.  Both religions believe in multiple hells and heavens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5.  Both religions emphasize detachment and renunciation of materialism, and treat desire as the major cause of suffering.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But keep in mind the key differences between Buddhism and Hinduism:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1.  Buddhism does not believe in the existence of souls or &amp;quot;first cause&amp;quot; (God).  For this reason many do not consider Buddhism to be a true religion, but merely a belief system.  Hinduism believes that Brahman is the Supreme Creator and that the soul (Atman) does exist.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2.  Buddhism views the world as filled with sorrow, and the highest goal of human life is to end sorrow.  Hinduism has four major goals for everyone to pursue:  religious duty (dharma), wealth (artha), desires (kama) and salvation (moksha).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
3.  Hinduism believes in four stages in life (ashramas), while Buddhism rejects this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
4.  Hinduism is a religion of the individual and thus has no monks.  Buddhism has many monks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
5.  Hinduism does not have any prophets, while Buddhism reveres Buddha as its founder.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
6.  Buddhism rejects the sacred scriptures of Hinduism, the Vedas.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Hindu response to the competition presented by Buddhism was to treat the Buddha as another god of Hinduism (the incarnation of Mahavishnu, one of the gods of the Hindu trinity).  This was typical of how Hinduism adapted to other religions to thwart the competitive threats.  This enabled Hinduism to remain far more popular than Buddhism within India, but not outside India.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== India's Contributions ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What can we thank ancient India for?  Our Arabic numerals, which are derived from Hindu numbers.  Also, near the end of classical India (around A.D. 500) the game of chess was invented in India.  Note that the game of chess does not involve any chance; Hinduism is against gambling.  The original game of chess lacked the powerful &amp;quot;queen&amp;quot;, and Muslim versions of the game lack the queen to this day.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Vedic mathematics, which is an ancient math system found in the Hindu scriptures, is taught to this day.  It emphasizes solving complex math problems orally.  India first discovered the concept of &amp;quot;zero&amp;quot; around the sixth century, which was a huge breakthrough.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Indian religion adds a transcendental quality that has found popularity worldwide in the form of meditation, and some American liberals left Christianity for it.  Ralph Waldo Emerson, a 19th century Massachusetts writer, was an example:  &amp;quot;I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavat-Gita.   It was the first of books; it was as if an empire spake to us, nothing small or unworthy, but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an old intelligence which in another age and climate had pondered and thus disposed of the same questions that exercise us.&amp;quot;  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Today, the popularity of the English language in India, its low cost of living, and its intelligent workforce make it an attractive place for large American companies to relocate or &amp;quot;offshore&amp;quot; their jobs.  Often when Americans call &amp;quot;customer service&amp;quot; for large companies, they are actually reaching low-cost operators in India, sometimes using Americanized first names.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
India is more than a country.  It is a subcontinent.  It is vast in size: two-fifths the area of all of Europe.  150 different languages are spoken there today.  Even though India has traditionally been a poor country, for decades it has produced more food than it can consume.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Major Belief Systems Today ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Here is a ranking by the number of followers of the major belief systems in the world today:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{| class=&amp;quot;wikitable&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|'''Religion'''&lt;br /&gt;
|'''Followers'''&lt;br /&gt;
|'''Comment'''&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Christianity&lt;br /&gt;
|2.1 billion&lt;br /&gt;
|Includes Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox, etc&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Islam&lt;br /&gt;
|1.5 billion&lt;br /&gt;
|Includes Sunni, Shite, etc&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Non-religious&lt;br /&gt;
|1.1 billion&lt;br /&gt;
|Does not follow any particular religion&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Hinduism&lt;br /&gt;
|900 million&lt;br /&gt;
|mostly based in the Indian sub-continent&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Chinese religions&lt;br /&gt;
|394 million&lt;br /&gt;
|includes Confucianism and Taoism&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Buddhism&lt;br /&gt;
|376 million&lt;br /&gt;
|mostly in non-Indian parts of Asia&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Judaism&lt;br /&gt;
|14 million&lt;br /&gt;
|mostly in Israel, Europe, and the Americas&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Jainism&lt;br /&gt;
|4.2 million&lt;br /&gt;
|originated in India, non-violence towards all life&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Shinto&lt;br /&gt;
|4 million&lt;br /&gt;
|native religion of Japan&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Zoroastrianism&lt;br /&gt;
|2.6 million&lt;br /&gt;
|ancient origins in the Middle East&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Scientology&lt;br /&gt;
|500,000&lt;br /&gt;
|members include actors Tom Cruise and John Travolta&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== China ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:China rel01.jpg|450px|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
Each has a population of about 1 billion persons today, and one third of the entire world now lives in China or India.  Most people in the world are Asian, which includes Japan, North and South Korea, Vietnam, Indonesia, Pakistan, and many other countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
China is very ethnically diverse, comprised of over 56 recognized ethnic groups with over 160 million people. Christianity has struggled to convert China, and only about one out of nine Chinese are Christian. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The highest mountains in the world, the Himalayas, separate it from India.  The Himalaya Mountain Range is famous for giants like Mount Everest and K2.  Vast amounts of semi-desert land known as the Gobi desert separate China from the Middle East and the area which was Mesopotamia in ancient times.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the south of China, the Yangtze river flows for 3000 miles, navigable from the sea for half of its course.  In the north is the Yellow river (now called the Huang He), which runs westward from the Yellow Sea and then northward a bit before turning south (look on the map above).  The Yellow river obtained its original name from the murky tan color of its waters.  The Yellow River is known for its tendency to flood surrounding lands, often with disastrous results.  The silt and sand carried in the muddy water builds up on the bottom of the river until it blocks the water's flow and causes the river to divert its course, flooding into another area.  Floods like these make the course of the Yellow River change often.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Ancient China ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The earliest archaeological evidence in China is of the Shang dynasty, 1766-1122 B.C.  By folklore it began when the virtuous and wise man named T'ang overthrew the decadent emperor Chieh of the Hsia dynasty.  The Shang dynasty was ultimately overthrown and replaced by the Chou dynasty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Shang dynasty built cities in northern China, along the eastern banks of the Yellow river.  It did not control all of the land that belongs to China today.  Sometimes called the Yellow River Civilization, the Shang dynasty benefited from bronze that Mesopotamia had introduced to China around 2000 B.C.  Note that Bronze had previously been invented in Mesopotamia around 3000 B.C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Shang dynasty had writing in the form of oracle bones: questions and answers inscribed on actual bone.  The bones were quite common and were created during the pagan oracles involved in ancient Chinese religion.  For archaeologists, these bones were the first concrete evidence that the Shang dynasty really had existed.  Before that, it was widely regarded as nothing more than a myth.  But if oracle bones were so common, why didn't archaeologists find them sooner?  Oracle bones were widely sold as &amp;quot;dragon bones&amp;quot; and believed to have magical healing properties, and the bones were generally ground up and used as medicine.  No one realized what the bones were until a high ranking official who was sick noticed that the bone which was to be ground for his medicine was covered in strange glyphs!  His discovery proved the existence of the Shang dynasty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Shang empire consisted of city-states, with much war between the various cities but particularly against the non-urbanized, agricultural populations in the rural areas.  The capital cities shifted as often as power changed hands.  The Shang dynasty perfected the wheel and used chariots in warfare.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
China used a pictographic form of writing that it continues to utilize to this day, albeit in a more developed form.  Often the word looked like its meaning, though today the characters are much more complex.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Zhou or Chou dynasty replaced the Shang dynasty in 1027 B.C., and benefited from the Iron Age.  The Iron Age is the period of human history characterized by the smelting of iron and its use in industry in western Asia and Egypt.  The Zhou dynasty lasted longer than any other dynasty in Chinese history, ruling until 221 B.C. This dynasty ruled over the eastern part of China during the last few hundred years of its reign.  The multiplication table, which is essential to modern mathematics, was developed during this dynasty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Early Chinese religion consisted of worshiping a supreme god called &amp;quot;Shang Ti,&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Lord on High.&amp;quot;  Shang Ti was believed to be a god ruling over the lesser gods of the sun, moon, wind, rain and other aspects of nature.  The ancient Chinese people worshiped these gods with human sacrifices.  When a king died, for example, hundreds of slaves and prisoners would be sacrificed in his honor.  There were also sacrifices on a smaller scale when a temple or palace was constructed.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Sun Tzu ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first military treatise was written by Sun Tzu in the 6th century B.C., often called in English the &amp;quot;Art of Warfare.&amp;quot;  It became a classic of military strategy used by generals and even modern businessmen, and is available freely on the internet.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://suntzusaid.com/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This classic contained timeless insights including:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://suntzusaid.com/book/4&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*&amp;quot;To see victory only when it is within the ken of the common herd is not the acme of excellence.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;Art of Warfare&amp;quot; reflects insights shared by the ancient Chinese culture.  The last item above about seeing victory, for example, reflects an observation of another ancient Chinese sage named Ts'ao Kung, who remarked that the goal is to recognize a fruitful plant ''before'' it germinates. In order words, success depends on being able to anticipate the future.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Confucius ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The great figure in ancient China was Confucius, who lived from 551 to 478 B.C. and taught social ethics to the people.  This was around the same time as the early Greek philosophers.  The name Confucius is simply a Latin translation of his real name, Kung Fu-tze, by Western historians.  Confucius's disciples wrote down his teachings in a book called the Analects, which focused on man's duties to obey a universal natural law.  Moderation in conduct, or &amp;quot;li&amp;quot;, was emphasized, and filial piety (respecting the older members of one's family) was the goal of the practices outlined in the Analects.  Age itself is greatly honored in Chinese culture, unlike Christianity:  the older a person was, the wiser he must be.  Confucius taught rulers to be just, and said those being ruled should be loyal to their rulers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Confucius wrote little himself, but his disciples recorded his teachings in the Analects.  This book became a &amp;quot;classic&amp;quot; (widely read and respected text) and has had enormous influence over Chinese history.  Confucius emphasized rational analysis with a touch of flexibility.  He disavowed any original insight or knowledge, and opposed anything egotistical.  He once said, &amp;quot;I for my part am not one of those who have innate knowledge.  I am simply one who loves the past and who is diligent in investigating it.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After Confucius died there was an era of the Warring States, from 481-221 B.C.  During that time several teachers emerged with their own interpretations of Confucian thought.  The two leading ones were Mencius (371-289 B.C.) and Hsun-tzu (298-230 B.C.).  Mencius felt that mankind was essentially good and that philosophers like himself should run the country.  Hsun Tzu, in contrast, felt that man was intrinsically evil and that a wise and powerful ruler was necessary to maintain order.  Hsun Tzu's ideas became powerful, and laid the intellectual groundwork for the brutal Chinese dictatorships that followed the Warring States: the Chi'in or Qin state (221-206 B.C.).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ch'in was the first unified Chinese empire, and its king was Shih huang-ti.  It lasted until the Han dynasty rose to power in 206 B.C.  The Han dynasty then lasted 400 years until A.D. 220, and its name is still used to describe the ethnicity of 93% of Chinese today.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We will discuss these important dynasties below.  But first, let's examine the prevalent religious beliefs of ancient China.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Taoism ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Taoism (also known as Daoism) eventually caught on in China and Southeast Asia (e.g., Vietnam) more than other religions, probably due to its compatibility with the philosophical foundations laid by Confucius.  Taoism is significantly more philosophical than the world's largest religions of Christianity, Islam and Hinduism.  The symbol for Taoism (see right) is the Taijitu or &amp;quot;Yin and Yang,&amp;quot; in which a curved half of a circle divides a shaded from a clear region to represent a constant interaction in nature between two forces having opposite qualities. [[Image:Yin yang.jpg|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Yin (darker side) is passive or negative or feminine; the Yang (lighter side) is active or positive or masculine.  While western philosophy often views this dualism as a struggle, in China the goal is to harmonize these complementary forces.  Taoism and Confucianism strive to obtain harmony, though in Taoism the focus is on nature while in Confucianism the focus is on people.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
The basic differences between Confucianism, Taoism and a third philosophy in China called &amp;quot;Legalism&amp;quot; were the following.  Confucianism emphasized education, tradition, reference for elders and ancestors, and a strong government.  Taoism emphasized harmony with nature, and preferred the least amount of government.  Legalism, the forerunner to modern communist China, held that a strong government was essential to control the people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Buddhism, which was popular in India, emphasizes personal salvation more than the Taoism of China.  It makes little difference today in China, where the communist dictators impose atheism as the official belief system.  But in ancient China, before communism, these religions competed with each other for followers.  Taoism advanced at the expense of Confucianism, which lost followers until northern rulers reestablished the Mandate of Heaven.  The Mandate of Heaven was a theory that heaven blessed good rulers but overthrew bad ones, and was first used by the Zhou Dynasty to justify overthrowing the Shang Dynasty.  These northern rulers obtained control in A.D. 589 under the Sui and Tang Dynasties.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Imperial China ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first imperial or national Chinese dynasty was the Qin or Ch'in dynasty (221-206 B.C.), which was founded by the ruler of the Zhou vassal state Qin, Prince Zheng.  The Qin dynasty was superb in battle, using chariots and iron weaponry, and that enabled Prince Zheng to conquer all the Chinese states and unify the country.  The Qin dynasty built many internal improvements, such as roads, canals and irrigation, using iron and bronze tools.  It was the Qin dynasty that began to construct the Great Wall, which stretches today for 1,400 miles.  China has always feared and been threatened by foreign invaders, and the wall was a way to defend itself by augmenting the natural protections of geography.  It is from &amp;quot;Qin&amp;quot; that the name &amp;quot;China&amp;quot; is derived.  But the Qin dynasty's highly legalistic approach to governing eventually led to rebellion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Han empire or dynasty (206 B.C. to A.D 220, with only a brief interruption from A.D. 6-23) built on the foundation of the Qin dynasty - literally.  The walls and roads were extended and improved during this period.  Liu Bang was the first Han ruler, and he imposed a centralized government that was stable for many years.  Empress Lu was a woman who seized power from 195 until 180 B.C. and then installed her sons as emperors while they were still infants.  Han Wudi (141-87 B.C.) was the longest serving Han ruler.  He was known for appointing efficient provincial administrators.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Han dynasty expanded the territory of China into Vietnam and Korea, and administered justice to the country from a centralized and organized civil service.  This was the most significant of all Chinese dynasties, and is compared by historians to the Pax Romana period in the Roman empire (which we will discuss in the next lecture).  The Han dynasty valued education highly, and even created a scholar class of people known as &amp;quot;shi&amp;quot;.  Historians criticize the Han dynasty, however, for treating women in an inferior manner.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Han dynasty developed the famous Silk Road: 5,000 miles of interconnected roads linking China to the Mediterranean region, which enabled trade in silk and fine goods to greatly increase.  Buddhism spread widely along the Silk Road, promoted both by traders and Buddhist monks, and reached China in A.D. 100.  Another new religion designed to appeal to merchants, Manichaeism (named after its founder Mani (A.D. 216-272)), also spread to Turkish nomads by teaching self-denial and acceptance of both Buddha and Jesus as prophets.  Notice how Buddhism would predictably become more popular outside India than Hinduism did;  Buddhism was not based on one's class or family heritage, while Hinduism was.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Trade flourished on the Silk Road, which China used to transport silk, spices gems, wine, cosmetics and even grain to the Mediterranean.  By land the traders carrying the goods to all groups in the Middle East; by sea the Malay sailors mastered the tricky monsoon wind patterns.  The Silk Road was influential from 150 B.C. to A.D. 900.  Perhaps one might compare its enormous influence to the internet today!  Today, an important railway runs along a common route which was part of the silk road.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
The state philosophy of the Han dynasty was Confucianism.  Technology advanced during this time, as did the arts.  Paper, porcelain, the compass, the rudder, the seismograph and possibly acupuncture were all invented under the Han dynasty.  Detailed historical records were maintained.  Most Chinese people were farmers, but China's discovery of iron enabled it to develop some highly profitable manufacturing trade.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Han dynasty declined, in a manner similar to the decline and fall of the Roman empire, though a bit earlier.  Historians cite the same reasons for the decline of both empires:  too vast an empire to administer and keep together, invasions by barbarians, hardship caused by the spread of disease and poor harvests, and overall economic failure.  In both cases, leaders of the armies gained power as the empires declined, but the generals could not save the empires.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But historians credit both the Han dynasty and the Roman empire for their lasting contributions to the world:  roads and, for a while, peace and prosperity.  The Han dynasty left us with paper, a greater emphasis on education, and the marvelous Silk Road.  The Roman empire left us with a system of laws, a powerful language (Latin), and the spread of Christianity.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But just as the West fell into disorganization once Rome fell, so did China when the Han dynasty collapsed.  China was ruled by regional governments known as the Three Kingdoms (A.D. 220-280).  Many legends arose during this period, as described in a Chinese literature classic entitled, &amp;quot;The Romance of the Three Kingdoms.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It was not until A.D. 589 that the Sui Dynasty arose to reestablish centralized government.  Subsequently the longer Tang and Song Dynasties ruled China also.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== China's Contributions ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What inventions and innovations do we owe to ancient China?  A great deal: paper, the magnetic compass, the umbrella, the fan, spaghetti, the fixed rudder, acupuncture, bamboo cultivation, harvesting silk, and perhaps the first planetarium.  Later, in A.D. 850, China invented gunpowder, which also popularized fireworks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
English philosopher Francis Bacon said this about three Chinese inventions:  &amp;quot;Printing, gunpowder and the compass: These three have changed the whole face and state of things throughout the world; the first in literature, the second in warfare, the third in navigation; whence have followed innumerable changes, in so much that no empire, no sect, no star seems to have exerted greater power and influence in human affairs than these mechanical discoveries.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.bjreview.com.cn/forum/txt/2008-08/26/content_146756_2.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Sometimes historians refer to the &amp;quot;Four Great Inventions&amp;quot;:  paper-making, printing, compass and gunpowder, and claim that China deserves credit for all four.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Debate:  What were the greatest inventions of the ancient world?'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Rise of Christianity ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The most significant person in history was Jesus of Nazareth, also recognized as Jesus Christ.  Do you know the etymology (word origin) of the name &amp;quot;Jesus&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the Greek the name for Jesus is spelled Ἰησοῦν or (pronounced as &amp;quot;ee-ay-sooce&amp;quot;), as in this passage naming Jesus in the Gospel of Matthew:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Mat&amp;amp;c=1&amp;amp;v=21&amp;amp;t=KJV#vrsn/21&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:τέξεται δὲ υἱὸν, καὶ καλέσεις τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ '''Ἰησοῦν''' αὐτὸς γὰρ σώσει τὸν λαὸν αὑτοῦ ἀπὸ τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν αὐτῶν&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
which the NIV version of the Bible translates as:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Matt 1:21.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name '''Jesus''',* because he will save his people from their sins.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The footnote for &amp;quot;Jesus&amp;quot; (*) in the above NIV translation explains, &amp;quot;Jesus is the Greek form of Joshua, which means the Lord saves.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ancient Greek, Hebrew and Latin all lacked the modern English letter &amp;quot;J&amp;quot;.  The Hebrew initially spelled Jesus as &amp;quot;Yeshua&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;y'hoshua&amp;quot;, using two different spellings because of the tradition against pronouncing &amp;quot;the sacred part of Yahweh's name, so they changed the 'Yah', to 'Yeh'.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.plim.org/JesusOrigin.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The ancient world had several founders of great religions, but only one performed miracles:  Jesus of Nazareth.  His resurrection is the single greatest event in the history of the world.  Do we know when it occurred?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
We can estimate the date of His crucifixion because we know it was during the reign of Pontius Pilate, who served from A.D. 26 to 36, thereby encompassing the entire period of ministry of John the Baptist and Jesus himself.  A Roman historian named Philo described Pilate as inflexible, obstinate and merciless, and Pilate was hated by the Jewish people under his rule.  The Gospels describe the savage retaliation by Pilate against Galileans as follows:  &amp;quot;Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Luke 13:1 (NAS).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The Romans later removed Pilate from power for being too cruel!&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A detailed analysis of the Gospel and historical sources places the date of the Crucifixion at Friday, April 3, A.D. 33, although some historians think it occurred in A.D. 29.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.themoorings.org/apologetics/69weeks/weeks4.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
From these dates come the traditional view that Jesus was 33 years old when He rose from the dead.  However, the Gospels do not specify His age and it is not entirely clear precisely when Jesus was born.  We do know from the Gospels that He was less than 50.  Many historians place his birth between 6 and 4 B.C.  The description of Jesus' birth in the Gospel of Luke refers to King Herod, whose brutal reign was from 37 to 4 B.C.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Modern controversy:'''  Jesus's hometown of Nazareth is now mostly Muslim, and a modern controversy exists about plans to build a mosque adjacent to the place where the angel Gabriel greeted the Virgin Mary.  Muslims honor Mary in the Koran.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An error occurred in the dating of our calendar from Christ's birth by a monk in the sixth century A.D., when the Roman monk Dionysis the Little changed the calendar to recognize the birth of Christ.  He calculated that Jesus was born the year that King Herod died, and modern historians agree.  However, the monk thought that Herod died 753 years after the founding of Rome, instead of the correct 749 years after the founding of Rome.  (King Herod is the ruler who ordered all babies in Bethlehem younger than 2 to be killed in his unsuccessful attempt to murder Jesus, whose family fled to Egypt to escape this.)  Thus the monk estimated that Jesus was born four years later than He probably was.  What was intended to be A.D. 1 was actually 4 B.C.  Note that there is no year &amp;quot;0&amp;quot;, as the concept of &amp;quot;0&amp;quot; was unknown to the Greeks and not even discovered until the seventh century by mathematicians in India.  The year that followed 1 B.C. is A.D. 1.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The teachings of Jesus were recorded in the Gospels (the word is from Middle English &amp;quot;god&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;spel&amp;quot; for &amp;quot;news&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;Good News&amp;quot;) by three of His Apostles (Matthew, John and also Mark, a scribe for Peter) and by a physician (Luke). The oldest known versions of the Gospels are in Greek, the common ''lingua franca'' (common or commercial language among diverse peoples) of the Roman Orient.  No original Gospels have been found in Aramaic; the only discovered Aramaic Gospels are translations from Greek versions.  The general consensus is that the Gospel according to Matthew was written particularly for Jews; the Gospel according to Mark was written particularly for Romans; the Gospel according to Luke was written particularly for Greeks; and the Gospel according to John was written for everyone.  Matthew and John were part of Jesus's original Apostles, and Mark is thought to have been a scribe for the Apostle Peter.  Jesus had emphasized that scribes were part of those He sent forth to proselytize the world.  &amp;quot;I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes ....&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Matt 23:34 (NAS).&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Luke was a Greek physician (see Col 4:14) who accompanied Paul and also wrote the Acts of the Apostles describing the arrival of the Holy Spirit.  Unlike the firsthand Gospels of Matthew and John, the Gospel of Luke records eyewitness accounts of others, much as a doctor asks a patient for his medical history and then writes it down in the medical file.  Due to Luke's professionalism, his Gospel is comprehensive about Jesus's life and resurrection, and conveys the great sense of joy that Christians felt.  In the Battle of the Bulge in World War II (the surprise Nazi counterattack in Dec. 1944), which was one of the worst military defeats in American history, a minister's son who had memorized Luke's description of the Nativity recited it for his fellow soldiers on Christmas Eve while together in the trenches.  Many of the American soldiers died in battle soon afterward.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The greatest writing in the history of the world is the Gospel of John, the teenager whom Jesus loved like a son.  John revised and perfected this Gospel for many decades before releasing it to others.  As was typical for many of the greatest authors, such as Copernicus, John's work was probably not released to the public until he passed away.  Isaac Newton also delayed publication of his great mathematical discoveries for decades.  As long as something can be improved further, there is no reason to publish it prematurely and confuse the public with multiple versions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
American soldiers in World Wars I and II would carry copies of the Gospel of John with them as they journeyed to faraway battles.  This single book has done more to shape human thought and behavior than any other work.  America's First Amendment right of free speech is based on ministers preaching of the &amp;quot;Word&amp;quot; of God as described at the beginning of the Gospel of John.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Archaeological discoveries in Jerusalem confirm, to the dismay of skeptics, many references in the Gospels about Jesus's work.  The Pool of Bethesda has been discovered (John 5:1f).  The Pavement has been found (John 19:13).  The setting of Jacob's well has been discovered (John 4).  Because Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in A.D. 70, it would have been impossible for a writer after A.D. 70 to make up any of these details. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paul of Taurus (now southern Turkey) was Jewish and converted to Christianity within a year or two of the Crucifixion while on the road to Damascus (now located in Syria), and afterward spread the Good News far and wide within the Roman empire.  He was both a prolific writer and scholar, and a prodigious missionary who traveled on three great missions throughout the Roman empire before being executed by a beheading in Rome in A.D. 62 (as a Roman citizen, Paul could not be scourged or crucified).  Several of Paul's letters are included in the New Testament, and often quoted to this day.  (For example, in Paul's letter to the Romans, he condemns homosexuality.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Romans 1:27.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;)  Peter, who was not a Roman citizen, likewise spread the faith before being crucified in Rome, by his choice upside down out of the utmost respect to Jesus's own Crucifixion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many misconceptions about early Christians persist.  Americans are often taught that all the disciples were ignorant fishermen who could not read or write.  This is plainly false, as several communicated by letter while held in jail by Roman authorities.  Many of the insights and truths revealed in the Gospels by the Apostles could only have been understood and taught by people of tremendous intelligence and faith.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Christianity was taken by the early Christians as far and wide as possible.  The religious celebrations consisted of a communal meal, called &amp;quot;communion&amp;quot; today but given the Greek name for &amp;quot;love feat&amp;quot; then:  &amp;quot;agape&amp;quot;.  This reenacted the Last Supper of Christ as described in the Gospels.  The concept of Christian love has had a profound, positive impact on the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mark founded a church in Egypt under the reign of the Roman emperor Nero, first converting Alexandrian Jews such as Theophilus and also converting many native Egyptians who were neither Greek nor Jewish.  It was for Theophilus and the Egyptian community that Luke wrote his Gospel and Acts of the Apostles, addressing Theophilus in the beginning of each.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;''See'' Luke 1:3 and Acts 1:1.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The local language in Egypt was Coptic, and translations of the Gospels into that language have been discovered which date from the first half of the second century.  Coptic Christianity remains in Egypt now, although Islam has become the most popular religion there.  Some cite the acceptance of Arabic as a liturgical language by the Pope of Alexandria as aiding the rise to dominance of Islam there.  Coptic Christians celebrate Christmas each year on January 7th.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Apostle Thomas, known as the &amp;quot;Doubting Thomas&amp;quot; traveled as far as India and established a Christian community that continues to thrive now, although the country is still majority Hindu.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Christianity differs from other major religions in its peaceful evangelism, spreading its truths through freedom of speech.  Christianity is unlike non-evangelical religions, such as Judaism and Hinduism, and Christianity also differs from Islam in the manner in which force is used.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:World History lectures]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:World History Lecture 03}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:World_History_Lecture_Three&amp;diff=714951</id>
		<title>Talk:World History Lecture Three</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:World_History_Lecture_Three&amp;diff=714951"/>
		<updated>2009-10-29T05:19:11Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The instructor's understanding of Buddhism is inaccurate; they do not believe in reincarnation, hell, heaven and are not less moral than any other religion. Being the 4th largest religion, it is a religion. Religion is defined as a system of belief. Some have gods. Some religions, like Buddhism, does not have gods.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Bombay doesn't exist any more - it's Mumbai. --[[User:Clearlytim|Clearlytim]] 02:34, 15 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:that's great, this isn't a article. [[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 02:35, 15 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''This requires learning about many new religions, including Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Confucianism isn't a religion. [[User:DukeAra|DukeAra]] 06:26, 29 February 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've deleted the very last paragraph as it was mostly incorrect. 1. Christianity may indeed be spread by freedom of speech nowadays but that was very much not the case for almost the entire history of the religion, from 330 to about 1750 AD. 2. Evangelism of Sikhism and Buddhism was almost entirely peaceful, much more so than Christianity. 3. Conversion by force is not accepted by Islamic law. [[User:HSpalding|HSpalding]] 20:05, 14 November 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've deleted the figure of 1 in 9 Chinese being Christian. This figure is very much too high. I don't know how large (or small) the Christian community is in China, so I haven't replaced it with a more accurate figure. Maybe 1 in 100? [[User:HSpalding|HSpalding]] 20:12, 14 November 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Language issues ==&lt;br /&gt;
I'd fix these on the page, but Ed Poor asked that I point them out here instead.&lt;br /&gt;
So:&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Ἰησοῦν'' doesn't say Iesous. Look at the case :)&lt;br /&gt;
* I'm not aware of systems that pronounce Jesus' name in Greek as I-ee-soos (assuming this means the first syllable rhymes with &amp;quot;my&amp;quot; and the second with &amp;quot;he&amp;quot;). Having the first syllable rhyme with &amp;quot;he&amp;quot; and the second with somewhere between &amp;quot;hay&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;hare&amp;quot; is more common. There may be a system, perhaps an American one that my classes didn't cover, that uses this pronounciation, in which case, fine, but maybe put a reference in there?&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;Gospel&amp;quot; is not a Greek word.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:DeniseM|DeniseM]] 17:54, 10 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Confucius==&lt;br /&gt;
That's a very good concise account, but I wonder if it worth mentioning that Confucius was an atheist (or at the very most, a confirmed agnostic)? The huge criticism of Confucianism is that its static nature and inability to cope with changing circumstances led to the stagnation and collapse of the Chinese empire in he late 19th/early 20th century; the Godlessness of Confucian doctrine is surely the explanatiuon for this fatal absence of dynamism. [[User:RegalBruin|RegalBruin]] 11:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Atheism is a modern concept, and I don't think it applies in ancient times.  But thanks for the suggestion.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:28, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::I thought Socrates was accused of atheism at his trial. Did it have a different meaning for the ancient Greeks? [[User:ReneeStJ|ReneeStJ]] 15:56, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::He was accused of impiety, which is a lack of reverence for God. Belief in God was basically assumed in those times. Maybe they did have a higher IQ back then ;-) [[User:MattL|MattL]] 16:00, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::::I see; there is quite a difference there. So Meletus just meant &amp;quot;impious&amp;quot; by άθεος, not actual disbelief in Gods? [[User:ReneeStJ|ReneeStJ]] 16:02, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Reversion explained ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The edit was reverted because it was not an improvement, and it had deleted a key date (thereby introducing a misleading time reference).--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:28, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So what you are saying is that:&lt;br /&gt;
* The Chinese &amp;quot;invented&amp;quot; bamboo. (''They made widespread use of it, like every other culture in east and south-east Asia, but did they '''invent''' this naturally growing plant?'')&lt;br /&gt;
* The Chinese ''did not'' invent or develop the fixed rudder. (My reading suggests it was used from the 4th century B.C. in China and started being used in the west in the late middle ages.) (Ref: &amp;quot;''Dictionary of Ship Types''&amp;quot;: A. Dudszus &amp;amp; E. Henriot. Trans. Keith Thomas. Conway maritime Press 1986)&lt;br /&gt;
* The Chinese invented gunpowder '''after''' their invention of fireworks. (''By all means put in this date, but tell us what their first fireworks were made of before the invention  of gunpowder.'')&lt;br /&gt;
:(I am genuinely trying to help here.) [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 16:43, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Oh, and another thing: I would have discussed this earlier this morning before the edit, but the page was locked. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 16:55, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Andy, we need to stress that fireworks are a Chinese invention. As is, the article is not clear as to whether fireworks were extant with the advent of gunpowder, or if it was a new invention. How about:&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Later, in A.D. 850, China invented gunpowder, which also popularized fireworks, another Chinese invention.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt; [[User:MattL|MattL]] 17:08, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Are we still denying the fixed rudder as a Chinese innovation? And can there be a word further than &amp;quot;invent&amp;quot;. Neither the cultivation of bamboo and its development as a source of artifacts; nor the development of silk, can be classed as an &amp;quot;invention&amp;quot; under the generally held meaning of the word. An example is Watt's development of a working practical steam engine is not normally considered an &amp;quot;invention&amp;quot;.[[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 17:31, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::::You have the right word at the start, &amp;quot;innovation.&amp;quot;  Adapting or developing things in new ways is usually called innovating, as opposed to creating something entirely new, inventing. [[User:ReneeStJ|ReneeStJ]] 19:30, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Indus Civilization==&lt;br /&gt;
*(1) My ''Penguin Dictionary of Archaeology'' describes the Aryans as &amp;quot;''the people of the Rig Veda who invaded Iran and India from the northwest in the later 2nd millenium B.C. By one theory they were responsible for the downfall of the Indus Civilisation. Their language was an early form of Sanskrit, the most easterly of the Indo-European tongues.''&amp;quot; Who are these &amp;quot;''Aryans''&amp;quot; you mention that arrived in 3000 - over 1000 years before the first recorded evidence of Indo-Europeans into history.&lt;br /&gt;
*(2) The edit of mine this morning (which corrected, not &amp;quot;censored&amp;quot; the article) was a paraphrase of the &amp;quot;''Times Atlas of Archaeology''&amp;quot; page on the Cities of the Indus. It has the Aryan Invasion much earlier than Penguin, but is based on more up-to-date scholarship. It makes no mention at all of an earlier Aryan invasion. Neither does any reference work I have ever read. The page on &amp;quot;Early Farming in South Asia&amp;quot; covers the period in that area up to the development of townships - no mention of any Aryan incursion. Indeed it talks about &amp;quot;indigenous&amp;quot; development.&lt;br /&gt;
*(3)In the other half dozen or so references I have dug up since returning home and finding your reversion, I can not find any reference at all to Aryans/Indo Europeans entering what would become the &amp;quot;Known world&amp;quot; before about 2000 B.C. (although there is obviously a &amp;quot;homeland&amp;quot; before they went their separate ways.&lt;br /&gt;
:I request that you consider reinstating at least the intent of my edit, or at least give some reference for your statement about these &amp;quot;3000B.C. Aryans&amp;quot;. I really am trying to help here...as mentioned re the China article, I would have tried to discuss this before I edited but the page was locked. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 20:34, 11 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::Nothing has happened. It now remains to be seen whether there is a homework question that mentions the Ayrans entering the Indus area (''twice'', according to Andy - once about 3000 BC, which not only goes against all historical references but also Andy's own writings elsewhere - then again in the 2nd millenium BC, which is the correct one) and what the students write concerning this matter.&lt;br /&gt;
:::One would think that normal standards of courtesy would dictate that I at least receive a reply to my concerns about such a drastic deviation from the accepted historical record. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 19:49, 18 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Earliest Chinese archeological findings ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm not sure what source indicates that the earliest signs of civilization in China were circa 1766-1122 B.C., but that doesn't seem right.  According to this link from the Metropolitan Museum in NYC, early Chinese cultures were making objects like flutes circa 7000–5700 B.C.: [http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/jiah/hd_jiah.htm] Here's a secondary reference as well: [http://www.shakuhachi.com/K-9KChineseFlutes-Nature.html]  --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 13:48, 16 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Older date claims boost the number of visitors to museums, the sales of newspapers, and government funding.  But there's no independent verification of the date claims, and they are implausible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Claims about intelligence in outer space have sold billions of dollars in books, newspapers, movies, etc., also.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 14:07, 16 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Andy is correct in that the first archaeological signs of ''civilisation'' (ie written records, inscriptions etc) are dated to the 1700s B. C. There are artifacts from before then, just as there are artifacts from Egypt and Iran that predate the so-called civilisations in those areas. Chinese civilisation is dated from about 1700, but legend and logic have it that it didn't suddenly appear fully formed and accoutred like Pallas Athena from someone's forehead. For instances there is traditionally, and in records written a few hundred years later, a period of five named &amp;quot;Sages&amp;quot; before the first (Shang) dynasty. There are settlement finds dated well before 1700 but they are not indicative of Chinese culture as we would think of it. It is generally accepted that the Chinese Civilisation began about 1700. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 14:52, 16 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I can see the point about there being a difference between finding artifacts like musical instruments versus evidence of an active civilization.  However, it's not the age of an item that make it significant - it's the importance of that item towards improving our understanding of the world and its history that counts.  I would also  doubt that the Metropolitan Museum would publish findings unless there was some corroboration, and don't see why the date claims are implausible. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 18:47, 16 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree. There is archaeological evidence of villages and (in China's case) millet and wet-rice cultivation going back millenia before the advent of writing, just as there is in the Middle East, Egypt and the Indus valley. I am just saying that Chinese culture ''as we know it'' dates to about 1700 B.C. [[User:AlanE|AlanE]] 20:31, 16 February 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Chinese culture does not date to 1700BCE. Hell, even the idea of &amp;quot;China&amp;quot; wasn't present yet. The idea of a &amp;quot;China&amp;quot; started around 5th century BCE with the Mandate of Heaven and approx. 3rd century BCE with the conquering of the kingdoms in northern/central China by the Qin kingdom. And Chinese culture &amp;quot;as we know it&amp;quot; doesn't mean anything, since a good chunk of Chinese culture you see today are from the Manchus of the 16th century Qing Dynasty.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 01:19, 29 October 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'd like to state that this page has many many glaring inaccuarcies and utterly incorrect facts. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'd like to ask why there is a reference to Christianity in every other sentence....whatever. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Anyways, here are just a small portion of the things that require changing:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Changed the following:&lt;br /&gt;
followers censor school prayer and promote evolution ---&amp;gt; Anti religious is not the same as censoring prayer/promoting evolution. Hell, there's no such thing as &amp;quot;anti-religious&amp;quot; - there are people who don't have religions. And evolution has nothing to do with any particular religion either. Most people who believe in evolution do have a religion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
threat of death if conversion to another religion ---&amp;gt;  Not necessarily true. only true in extreme cases. Changed it to: |Includes Sunni, Shite, etc&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Afterward, in 322 B.C., Chandragupta Mauryan defeated the Greek general Seleucus, who ruled a large part of East Asia which Alexander the Great had conquered.&amp;quot; ---&amp;gt; Alexander didn't conquer any part of East Asia. He conquered Western Asia and some of central Asia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The Indian number system developed, which was later misnamed the &amp;quot;Arabic numerals.&amp;quot; ---&amp;gt; It was called Arabic numerals because Arabs brought it to Europe, and Europeans thought they had invented it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Changed the bit about Christianity as well. ---&amp;gt; Changed to: |Includes Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox, etc&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Changed &amp;quot;mostly in Israel and the United States&amp;quot;. There are about a 300,000 in Canada and 600,000+ in Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Changed &amp;quot;the official religion of Japan, key in World War II&amp;quot; - there is no official religion in Japan. They follow a mish-mash of religions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Deleted &amp;quot;There is no Hinduism in China.&amp;quot; --&amp;gt; Uh...no duh?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;China has always been isolated by geographic protections.&amp;quot; --&amp;gt; What are geographic &amp;quot;protections&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Changed &amp;quot;There is very little ethnic diversity in China&amp;quot; ---&amp;gt; This is utterly wrong, mainly because there are FIFTY SIX (56) ethnic groups totaling 160,000,000+ (more than half the US population). (ie. 30,000,000+ Muslim ethnic groups)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Changed &amp;quot;And even that small number is due to courageous efforts in the face of much persecution of religion by the communist government that rules China.&amp;quot; ---&amp;gt; Wrong. Christianity has been in China since the 11th century, and it being a minority has little to do with the communist government that took over 50 years ago. Nowadays, Christianity is treated in the same way as any other religion in communist China.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Conservapedia:Debate_Topics&amp;diff=407040</id>
		<title>Conservapedia:Debate Topics</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Conservapedia:Debate_Topics&amp;diff=407040"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:32:03Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Debate topic suggestions, organized so that it's not necessary to delete them.'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Note: If some topic is miscategorized, it can be cut and pasted without affecting the relevant links.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
==Philosophical debates==&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[ Can conservapedia become the next wikipedia, is this good or bad]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:If there is no objective truth, then is the claim &amp;quot;there is no objective truth&amp;quot; also not an objective truth?|If there is no objective truth, then is the claim &amp;quot;there is no objective truth&amp;quot; also not an objective truth?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does History Matter?|Does History Matter?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is a first cause of a process necessary, always possible, or sometimes impossible?|Is a first cause of a process necessary, always possible, or sometimes impossible?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Can Objectivism develop beyond Ayn Rand's original formulation?|Can Objectivism develop beyond Ayn Rand's original formulation?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Can any man live without some code of morality?|Can any man live without some code of morality?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the universe include everything, or does something outside the universe exist?|Does the known physical universe exhaust all that can exist, or does something exist beyond known physical boundaries?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why is there something rather than nothing?|Why is there something rather than nothing?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Stem Cells| Embryonic Stem Cells: Why or why not?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Why Reason?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Why does the conservative media often an ugly undertone?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Religious debates==&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Should the first story of creation be read allegorically or literally?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Is Scientology a false religion]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Why do Moses, Ezra, Jesus, and Paul all disagree on divorce? Moses allowed divorce, Jesus disallowed it and also allowed it, Paul allowed it, and Ezra actually commanded it to appease God (Ezra 10)??? im confused!! whats a christian to do??]]&lt;br /&gt;
#[[Did Jesus ever claim to be God?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Was Jesus born in the right time and place?| Was Jesus born in the right time and place?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia : What does Christianity say about homosexuality?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If God does not exist, can anything be morally wrong?|If God does not exist, can anything be morally wrong?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it wrong to have a Christmas tree?|Is it wrong to have a Christmas tree?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Did God create evil?|Did God create evil?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Which Christian denomination is the most true to the central teachings of Christianity?|Which Christian denomination is the most true to the central teachings of Christianity?]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:If Jesus were alive to day, where on the political spectrum would he fall?|If Jesus were alive to day, where on the political spectrum would he fall?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should Religion Play a Large Role in Modern Societies?|Is religion relevant in todays society? / Should Religion Play a Large Role in Modern Societies?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the Bible (Old and the New Testament) have the infallible words of God?|Bible (New and Old Testament) Words of God]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: AntiSemitism|AntiSemitism]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Does Intelligent Design deny the Existence of God?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Could God create a rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?|Could God create a rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If there were no religion, would we find another reason to kill each other?|If there were no religion, would we find another reason to kill each other?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Natural Disaster versus Act of God|Natural Disaster versus Act of God]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:What is the Sabbath day?|What is the Sabbath day?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it possible to be a conservative and not a religious person or even an atheist?|Is it possible to be a conservative and not a religious person or even an atheist?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Why do we still perform Baptisms?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does_the_Resurrection_negate_Gods_Sacrifice_of_his_only_son%3F|Does the Resurrection negate Gods Sacrifice of his only son?|Does the Resurrection negate God's Sacrifice of his only son?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If_most_Muslims_learned_their_religion_from_their_parents%2C_just_like_us_Christians%2C_they_will_probably_be_hard_to_convert._So_what_can_we_do_to_save_their_souls%3F|If most Muslims learned their religion from their parents, just like us Christians, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If_most_Christians_learned_their_religion_from_their_parents%2C_just_like_us_Muslims%2C_they_will_probably_be_hard_to_convert._So_what_can_we_do_to_save_their_souls%3F|If most Christians learned their religion from their parents, just like us Muslims, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does_mainstream_Islam_endorse_violence%3F|Does mainstream Islam endorse violence?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is religion morally wrong?|Is religion morally wrong?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the Bible display poor ethics and morals?|Does the Bible display poor ethics and morals?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why the Bible|What makes the Bible a reliable source of knowledge besides tradition?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why should we be afraid of God?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Do conservative Christians have an unquestioning faith which is comparable to that of the Party in the book 1984?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Antisemitism]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Are Christianity and the Bible superior to other religions and scriptures?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Is &amp;quot;Coercive Interrogation&amp;quot; consistent with Christian Values?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Should all access to Conservapedia be banned on Sundays?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Either God is indecisive or the world's major religions have ALL got it wrong]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Mary Magdalene - First Witness to the Resurrection - Significance?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Was Christ a fundamentalist?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Atheism vs. Deism]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Atheism vs. Pastafarianism]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Why is homosexuality so bad?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Are Young Earth Creationists detracting others from the Faith?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[If Noah only brought two of every animal on the ark, wouldn't subsequent generations of animals have become increasingly inbred?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Is there 1 God or are there many gods?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate: Can you be a true Christian and believe in evolution?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Historical debates==&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Was Benjamin Franklin a deist?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Did racism play a role in the decision to drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?|Did racism play a role in the decision to drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Was the European colonization of the Americas good for the native people?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Political debates==&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Has Britain Declined?| Quoting Conservapedia's front page; &amp;quot;The British government just affirmed its ban on mentioning Intelligent Design to students.[3] No one there seems to notice how Britain's decline coincided with its promotion of evolution frauds like the Piltdown Man.&amp;quot; - Has Britain REALLY declined?]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is illegal immigration control the answer to illegal immigration?|Is illegal immigration control the answer to illegal immigration?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Has Britain become the 51st State of the US?|Has Britain become the 51st State of the US?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:You think these Phd's are nuts?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the European Union pose a threat to the United States?| Does the European Union pose a threat to United States Security?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Which is true; progressive Liberal or regressive liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Define torture]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should the United States have entered World War I?|Should the United States have entered World War I?]] &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should the United States have entered World War II?|Should the United States have entered World War II?]]  &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should the United States have eliminated communism in North Korea|Should the United States have eliminated communism in North Korea as General Douglas MacArthur wanted?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Was the United States right to drop atomic bombs so quickly on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?|Was the United States right to drop atomic bombs so quickly on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Was it wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?|If President Roosevelt had known about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, would it have been wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is gun-control the answer to crimes involving guns?|Is gun-control the answer to crimes involving guns?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Was world war inevitable?|Was world war inevitable?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Does &amp;quot;free trade&amp;quot; increase wealth rather than simply redistribute it?|Does &amp;quot;free trade&amp;quot; increase wealth or simply redistribute it?]]  &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is it even possible to install democracy in a Muslim country?|Is it even possible to install democracy in a Muslim country?]] &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is democracy even possible in Iraq?|Is democracy even possible in Iraq?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should we have given the Panama Canal back to Panama?|Should we have given the Panama Canal back to Panama?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should the United States leave the United Nations?|Should the United States leave the United Nations?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Crusades... Good or Bad?|Crusades... Good or Bad?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Was American soldier Michael New right to refuse to fight wearing part of a United Nations uniform?|Was American soldier Michael New right to refuse to fight wearing part of a United Nations uniform?]]  See [[Michael New]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Which is a more powerful ideology, Islam or communism?|Which is a more powerful ideology, Islam or Communism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should the United States intervene in small countries to defeat communism there?|Should the United States intervene in small countries to defeat communism there?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should public displays of the 10 Commandments be allowed under the constitution?|Should public displays of the 10 Commandments be allowed under the constitution?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Which has the best philosophy of education: the public school system, private schools, or the home school movement?|Which has the best philosophy of education: the public school system, private schools, or the home school movement?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should people genetically engineer a cure for homosexuality?|Should people genetically engineer a cure for homosexuality?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should Bush pardon Scooter Libby?|Should Bush pardon Scooter Libby?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should We Support Democrats For Life.org?|Should We Support Democrats For Life.org?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[conservapedia:Women in the Military?|Women in the Military?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Should students learn a foreign language?|Should students learn a foreign language?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why does the right side of the political spectrum tend to be more religous?|Why does the right side of the political spectrum tend to be more religious?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should there be a consistent standard on human rights applied to left and right?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should American companies be allowed to send their own troops into a war which America is participating in?|Should American companies be allowed to send their own troops into a war which America is participating in?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Giuliani's lack of social conservative viewpoints should not stop you from voting for him.|Giuliani's lack of social conservative viewpoints should not stop you from voting for him.]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is_President_Bush_good_for_America?|Is President Bush good for America?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is_the_Iraq_War_a_success%3F|Is the Iraq War a success?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does_single_sex_schooling_promotes_homesexuality%3F|Does Single sex schooling promotes homosexuality?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is_the_murder_of_3%2C000_people_just_a_few_or_is_it_a_lot%3F_Does_it_make_a_difference_if_the_murdered_people_are_Americans%3F|Is the murder of 3,000 people just a few or is it a lot? Does it make a difference if the murdered people are Americans?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the media really have a liberal bias?|Does the media really have a liberal bias?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Who was the last Democrat to quit due to ethics and what year was it? Is it fair for Republicans to due the same?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[What kind of leader will Democrats make if they run from debates on Fox?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Are the Democrats capable of fighting terrorism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Porn or guns?|Does porn actually cause (not merely correlate to) violence?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Can a rogue nation be thought of as a sovereign nation?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[ Has Russia reinstalled stealth communism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Do we all know what Democrat Presidential candidates stand for yet?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Define Civil War]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should gun sales to terror suspects be allowed?|Should gun sales to terror suspects be allowed?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Who would you support for President in 2008?|Who would you support for President in 2008?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is Darwinism liberal or is it conservative?|Is Darwinism liberal or is it conservative?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Why did God place most of the world's oil in politically unstable places?|Why did God place most of the world's oil in politically unstable places?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Restoring the USA image in the world, just a fancy phrase that means zilch?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Placing the blame on how America got polarized]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is most government criticism really patriotic?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is environmentalism mostly about preserving natural resources?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is the conservative stance on illegal immigration going to loose the Hispanic vote for the GOP in the 08' election?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Should President Bush Condemn Armenian Genocide? ]] ''New as of October 10, 2007''&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Third Party Debate]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Who kills more innocent people: religious believers or atheists?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Was congress right to override president Bush's veto on the water projects bill?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Is opening the borders the solution to the social security crisis?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Preferred Democrat for the White House?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Does Republican equal conservative?  Does Democrat equal liberal?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[What is wrong with communism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Scientific debates==&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why haven't intelligent designists published a single scientific article?|If intelligent design is just as valid as evolution, where are all their scientific findings and publishings?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that bigotry is a necessary self-defense mechanism?|Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that bigotry is a necessary self-defense mechanism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that homosexuality is bad for the survival of a species?|Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that homosexuality is bad for the survival of a species?]]  &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is Darwinian natural selection compatible with Marxism?|Is Darwinian natural selection compatible with Marxism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is the theory of macroevolution true?|Is the theory of macroevolution true?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Is Giving Birth the Bible Way Better?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should Creationism/Intelligent design be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution in public schools?|Should Creationism/Intelligent design be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution in public schools?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is global warming evident, and if so, is this the fault of man, and how must man stop it?|Is global warming evident, and if so, is this the fault of man, and how must man stop it?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If the universe is young and it takes light millions of years to reach us from far off stars, how can we see them?|If the universe is young and it takes light millions of years to reach us from far off stars, how can we see them?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:God, Earth and Global Warming|God, Earth and Global Warming]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why is the evidence in favor of evolution so darn convincing?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?|If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is Relativity in direct conflict with the Genesis account?|Is Relativity in direct conflict with the Genesis account?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Who feels that scientific related articles should only reference published research papers instead of websites when dealing with research instead of application?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: If it could be unambiguously demonstrated that man is NOT the most evolved animal, then would this support or refute ther idea of Creation by God?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Why are God's works always questioned?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#[[Conservapedia:Are there any elements of choice, when it comes to carrying out homosexual acts?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Listing the Earth's most pressing needs in urgent order of fixing]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is homosexuality a mental illness?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Debates about Conservapedia==&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is Conservapedia representing a conservative POV or a Young Earth Creationist POV?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is Conservapedia anti-British?|Is Conservapedia anti-British?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[The liberal quotient of Conservapedia; what is it? Does it matter?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does bias impair Wikipedia's reliability?|Does bias impair Wikipedia's reliability?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should the term list entries be included in Conservapedia's entry count?|Should the term list entries be included in Conservapedia's entry count?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:How should Conservapedia work to avoid having a conservative bias?|How should Conservapedia work to avoid having a conservative bias?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Can Conservapedia Succeed?|Can Conservapedia Succeed?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is Conservapedia fair and balanced?|Is Conservapedia fair and balanced?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:How can we protect Conservapedia by distinguishing real conservative encyclopedia articles from satires written by liberals?|How can we protect Conservapedia by distinguishing real conservative encyclopedia articles from satires written by liberals?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:What exactly is Conservapedia?|What exactly is Conservapedia?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Was the media attention needed?|Was the media attention needed?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia Debate Topics full of far left liberal netroots]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Which is true; progressive Liberal or regressive liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Where do you personally look for facts and information on topics &amp;quot;When did Brahms live&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Why did Monet paint grainstacks?&amp;quot;]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it okay for Conservapedia to have biased articles?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:On whether certain articles on human anatomy should be pre-emptively blanked and protected]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Who deletes entire discussion items from here?  And why?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Why do users, who contribute substantially, choose to leave this community?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Why do the creators of conservapeida see wikipedia as un-American?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Is the use of copyrighted photographs without permission stealing?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Are there too many debates on Conservapedia? | Are there too many debates on Conservapedia?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it tasteless for Conservapedia to critique the Virginia Tech poem on the Main Page?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Has anyone ever been been banned for pointing out that many of the other entries on this site are in need of citation and evidence to back up statements?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does an encyclopedia define complex subjects, or insert more bias into them?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Do sysops block editing on pages when it seems their opponents are making strong points?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Is Conservapedia a 'Trustworthy Encyclopedia'?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Does altering the record of debate in a wiki 'Encyclopedia' render the entire thing a farce?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Democrats next move, link more stories of heartache like those from Kansas to Gulf Coast.]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Do quotes used to support a theory just make an article look stupid?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Funny, maybe?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Are cats just useless Dogs|Are cats just useless dogs?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is the Platypus evidence that God has a sense of humour?|Is the Platypus evidence that God has a sense of humour?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Was the shooting at Virginia Tech somehow President Bush's fault?|Was the shooting at Virginia Tech somehow President Bush's fault? (kind of like he caused hurricane Katrina)]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Are video games getting better or worse as graphics, sound, and gameplay complexity improve?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Favorite old time radio show]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Other==&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Are alcohol, marijuana, and nicotine gateway drugs?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is Rap music torture?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should weed be legalized?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:What are the lessons that we should take away from the Milgram Experiment]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the Theory of Evolution promote atheism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Discussion:Colorado Mall Shootings]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Discussion:Creationist]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Is the Theory of Evolution a conspiricy?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:How should we view the fact leading scientists do not believe in god?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservapedia]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Darwinian_natural_selection_compatible_with_Marxism%3F&amp;diff=407039</id>
		<title>Debate:Is Darwinian natural selection compatible with Marxism?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Darwinian_natural_selection_compatible_with_Marxism%3F&amp;diff=407039"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:31:02Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: /* No it's not exactly compatible */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The question has not meaning as natural selection does not occur in human civilization where virtually every individual live to child bearing age and Marxism does function in nature only in human civilization.[[User:Rebiu|Rebiu]] 10:19, 31 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would suggest that natural selection does occur. Even if it were possible to ensure that each person had two children, the act of ensuring it happened is a form of selection. Some people have more kids than others, it might not be an active process but that is not in the nature of natural selection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would suggest that whoever thought up this topic explain exactly what is meant here.  The two are almost completely unrelated to one another(Other than the idea of change).  So, really, what is being got at here?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No it's not compatible, quite the opposite==&lt;br /&gt;
Marxism in the form of socialism/communism, and stresses social equality. Those who are at the top of society has to contribute their share of the wealth in order to balance out those at the bottom of society. Planned economies, etc are ways to &amp;quot;equalize&amp;quot; everyone. Economic socialism was also something on the lines of what Jesus taught.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Darwin's natural selection is actually more like capitalism. You work to accomplish individualistic goals in self interest. When everyone pursues self interest, the result is society actually benefits as a whole.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 14:30, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservapedia Debates]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Media:Example.ogg]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Darwinian_natural_selection_compatible_with_Marxism%3F&amp;diff=407038</id>
		<title>Debate:Is Darwinian natural selection compatible with Marxism?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Darwinian_natural_selection_compatible_with_Marxism%3F&amp;diff=407038"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:30:47Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The question has not meaning as natural selection does not occur in human civilization where virtually every individual live to child bearing age and Marxism does function in nature only in human civilization.[[User:Rebiu|Rebiu]] 10:19, 31 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would suggest that natural selection does occur. Even if it were possible to ensure that each person had two children, the act of ensuring it happened is a form of selection. Some people have more kids than others, it might not be an active process but that is not in the nature of natural selection.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would suggest that whoever thought up this topic explain exactly what is meant here.  The two are almost completely unrelated to one another(Other than the idea of change).  So, really, what is being got at here?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No it's not exactly compatible==&lt;br /&gt;
Marxism in the form of socialism/communism, and stresses social equality. Those who are at the top of society has to contribute their share of the wealth in order to balance out those at the bottom of society. Planned economies, etc are ways to &amp;quot;equalize&amp;quot; everyone. Economic socialism was also something on the lines of what Jesus taught.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Darwin's natural selection is actually more like capitalism. You work to accomplish individualistic goals in self interest. When everyone pursues self interest, the result is society actually benefits as a whole.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 14:30, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservapedia Debates]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Has_Britain_Declined%3F&amp;diff=407037</id>
		<title>Debate:Has Britain Declined?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Has_Britain_Declined%3F&amp;diff=407037"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:27:32Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;==No==&lt;br /&gt;
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The British Empire and it's political influence have declined since the beginning of the 20th century, this is true, and is not a bad thing for the British people or the rest of the world. &lt;br /&gt;
Since the largely peaceful dissolution of the empire, after the end of WWII the lives of ordinary working class British people have improved greatly. My grandmother was born in to abject poverty in the Nottingham inner city in the 1920's, they had little food and no furniture. This is what imperialism and a rigid class system without social benefits did for the British. Thanks to [[Clement Atlee]]'s [[welfare state]] however, no-one lives like this in Britain any more. We have one of the best standards of living in the world, and Britain, along with the rest of western europe, is without doubt one of the best places to live. &lt;br /&gt;
Sorry, but I fail to see where the 'decline' is. --[[User:Eyupdutch|Eyupdutch]] 10:37, 26 June 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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That is all entirely true. Britain has not declined in any political or social aspect. I suspect what the person who wrote that news piece means is that Britain has declined morally, with their acceptance of evolution and all. That is opinion, and somehow not very befitting an website which fancies itself as an encyclopedia. [[User:Argonaut|Argonaut]] 18:35, 30 June 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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With the exception of the idiotic observation about the 'acceptance of evolution' above, I agree. The acceptance of evolution is a sign of intelligence, not of moral anything.  The notion that Britain has 'declined' suggests a monstrous presupposition, that Britain was once great.  Britain became great in 1948 with the introduction of the National Health Service, the Nationalisation of the Railways the Coal Mines and the major industries all of which took the working people of Great Britain forward into a world immensely richer and freer than that of their forefathers.  This work by the Attlee govn was a major, practical step towards socialism, and should be being celebrated and analysed in a positive way, not knocked in sly, leading questions by stupid, right-wing pretend-encyclopedias such as this.&lt;br /&gt;
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chris larner&lt;br /&gt;
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Britain hasn't declined. It has simply been overshadowed by the United States, currently the world's most powerful state. And I'm sure, in time, the USA will in turn be overshadowed by another upstart superpower. The good ol' People's Republic, for instance. All hail Chairman Mao!  &lt;br /&gt;
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==Yes==&lt;br /&gt;
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You'll notice that there are no entries in the &amp;quot;yes&amp;quot; section&lt;br /&gt;
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==FUNNY FUNNY TRUTH==&lt;br /&gt;
The funny truth about the piltdown man was it was the result of nationalism. It was fabricated as a response to a REAL discovery in Germany of the skeletons of the Neanderthal man. It's funny I don't see those IDERs/creationists mentioning that part of history.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 14:27, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_evidence_in_favor_of_evolution_convincing%3F&amp;diff=407035</id>
		<title>Debate:Is the evidence in favor of evolution convincing?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_evidence_in_favor_of_evolution_convincing%3F&amp;diff=407035"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:24:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: /* Many Authoritative Sounding Assertions Does Not Make For A Conclusive Debate */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;{{debate}}&lt;br /&gt;
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Because it has almost been completely proven. i say almost because science is not used to prove a theory, but disprove others, and it has disproved all other theories in contradiction to evolution.-Marowit&lt;br /&gt;
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I try and try to hold on to the truth I was taught by my family and the church, but the more I read and learn, the more strongly I become convinced - as if involuntarily - that Darwin, Dawkins and the rest of them are right. Is this Satan tempting me? What should I do to rid myself of the growing conviction that creationism is nonsense spun up by bigots to justify their social status?&lt;br /&gt;
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creationism is used to promote the idea that &amp;quot; god' created everything, that is why there is a 6,000 year timeline generally cited. By as the proof of creationism is debunked, new ideas to try and cover the flaws in the creationism are floated, enter intelligent design. I'm sure that will be proved false too.&lt;br /&gt;
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Science works best when theories are attacked - since it brings change, improves old theories or replaces them.  &amp;quot;Falsifiability&amp;quot; remains the hallmark.  Nothing is immune and so is subject to change because of new information and potentially new interpretation.  The more vigorously evolution is attacked, the better it's position gets as the years go by - the attacks are so transparently terrible that it only serves to advance the very cause of science and the scientific process.  It is not possible to continue to build a case against evolution using arguments that cannot be sustained except in those minds that will refuse to accept anything that contradicts what they fervently believe.  The debate continues.  That it is not necessary to attack evolution as a way to justify the presence of God is amply demonstrated by Francis Collins in his latest book &amp;quot;Language of God&amp;quot; or Kenneth R. Miller's &amp;quot;Finding Darwin's God&amp;quot; (and his articles).  Perhaps many who were never aware of what evolution really is, may now make themselves aware - in trying to understand why there is so much venom against it.  I mean, if something is being attacked so vigorously, it will pique more interest.  So, bring it on.&lt;br /&gt;
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The theory of evolution is just that, a theory.  It has not been proved and it never will be.  There is no need to investigate this topic using &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; when it is clearly answered in Genesis.  Furthermore, science is a manifestation of the devil fabricated to undermine God and his beautiful gift to all mankind.  My advice to you my Christian brother is: Love your god and your country in that order and never doubt the decisions of either.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Evolution is a theory. I have a book at home and it says that evolution is true. You have a book that says god created the world. The differnce is that my book wasn;t written in a time where people were very uneducated and needed explanations for things when they had no means of backing them up. genisis is the same book that says we all came from two people: Adam and Eve. It then says that they had 3 sons, one of which wa bad and left to go live with other people. How is this possible when theyr are only 5 people on Earth? You may say that this is just an exageration of what really happend, but who are you to say what parts of Genisis are true and which parts just fill in the gaps? You are right though when you say the theory of Evoulotion is full of holes, and that their are many things on Earth and the universe that are no understood. But in time they will be understood by science. We are learning new things everday about our world, in fact, for the longest time we didnt even know what gravity and now we do. Are you saying that we should give this up ad exceot that god created us and that science is bad? You sound an awfull like those who put Capernicus to death after he said that the sun did not revolve around the Earth. by the way, it may not have even had been Capernicus that said that i'm wrong, but it doesn't matter. You religous freaks are to single minded to realize that Bible may not be true. You can believe this if you want, that is your own right, but stop forceing it upon other people. &lt;br /&gt;
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: It's true, evolution is a theory.  There are some other theories that you may have heard about.  Theory of electromagnetic radiation and Maxwell's equation, theories that describe how electrons move and behave and ofcourse Einstein's Special and General Theory of Relativity.  The internet and browsers and tcp/ip and dhcp and cable modems and phones and dsl are all completely unrelated to science and engineering advancements.  Even these words are only a figment of your imagination.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think you may want to see [[Theistic Evolution]], the belief that Evolution took place, but God intervened to give humans souls, etc. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000CC&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;00FFAA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:27, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes the theory of evolution is just that, a theory, so is gravity. You are right the theory will never be proven, theories are never proven, just tested until they are rendered false.  What I do not understand is your statement about science being a manifestation of the devil, are people in the US that uneducated?  Science is about finding logical reasons to what is observed.  If someone were to tell you that the sun is blue, and you looked up to see the color then checked what you knew to be shades of yellow, just to make sure you were not confused about color, you would be using science.  Perhaps you should think on this, also please post your name, Bart2461, it is rude to not do so.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 14:44, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Actually, as this is a sort of Essay, it is not customary to sign your name. In fact, discussion should be taking place on the discussion page, rather than on the actual page. [[User:GofG | GofG]] [[Special:Contributions/GofG|&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;]] [[User talk:GofG | Talk]] 16:35, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: If God is benevolent, then He is not trying to trick you with what you see in the world around you.  What you read in the Old Testament and Genesis is written by people with the same basic mindset as those who wrote about Egyptian gods and their creation stories, or Greek gods and their creation stories, or Hindu gods and their creation stories.  They were trying to describe the world as best they can.  Is it necessary that any of these be ''literally'' true?  Or is it more of a way that each ancient culture justifies their connection to their gods?  Think about what is necessary for salvation - is it a literal reading of Genesis? or belief in Jesus?  --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 17:42, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: The urge to believe in somethings are so strong that no matter how many contradictions may exist, there is reluctance to accept that.  Peter McWilliams in his book &amp;quot;It's No ones Business if you do&amp;quot; argues persuasively as to how, when examined the context of the time when it was written (like so many books in the history of man) the Bible does contain time immemorial words of wisdom and help.  It is scary for many to imagine that such words of wisdom are in fact found in many different parts of the world in different ways and published in many ways.  The refusal to see anything other than what one believes is what has led to the many horrors of man's inhumanity to man. -- [[User:kchittur|kchittur]] 21:50 (CDT) 22 March 2007&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Evolution is so darn convincing because it is happening today.  Life evolves to fit changing conditions of weather as science has shown us by carefully monitoring the life cycle of certain insects in northern Canada who are breeding a few weeks differently because of global warming.  BUT, the question is not, &amp;quot;Does evolution happen&amp;quot; because it does.  Instead, the question is: &amp;quot;Did man evolve from a batch of chemicals&amp;quot;.  The first point is not completely understood because we view a tiny slice of time.  Our lack of complete understanding does not let us predict with certainty whether  man evolved from a batch of hot chemicals within Earth's history. [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 11:52, 23 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
'''Because it is a Fact'''&lt;br /&gt;
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Evolution is the most verified, validated, proven, observed and observable scientific theories.  Only those with an obvious agenda and willful ignorance in the face of clear concise proof still attempt to deny it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Science and scientists understand what &amp;quot;theory&amp;quot; means.  Even though scientists can write ad-nauseam about evidence pointing out to why evolution is supported by evidence, there will always be someone, somewhere pointing out some obscure item/fact that does not seem to agree with existing theories - and instead of asking for a revision of parts of the theory, want to throw the entire thing over ... Oh, yes, the alternatives offered cannot be challenged since the proof of the alternatives (whatever that may be) is axiomatic and consequently do not need anything resembling proof in the way science/scientists understand.  Fear pervades a segment of the population that holds on to concepts/ideas that they will simply not let go no matter what the evidence is.  And so it goes.  Evolution versus Intelligent Design [http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf Read a Judgement by a Conservative Judge in the Dover Case from Pennsylvania]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The little evidence that actually exists in support of evolution is really not all that convincing, (at least to me) and often raises more questions than it does answers. The overwhelming complexity of life and natural systems means that it is entirely unlikely that things developed this way by chance. (This viewpoint, of course, does exclude such concepts as Deistic and Theistic Evolution). In addition, there are literally thousands of &amp;quot;missing links&amp;quot;. Science has not been able to conclusively bridge the numerous gaps between species that appear in the fossil record, often concluding, &amp;quot;well, it just happened that way&amp;quot; without any evidence to support such an assertion.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The available evidence really doesn't support a 6,000 year timeline, to be fair, hence I cannot accept most young earth viewpoints of Creation, but one can still accept a literal creation and be in line with what science has actually discovered. One must realize, however, that the evolution-creation debate lies outside of the scope of science. Neither is repeatable, and neither can truly be tested via the scientific method. --[[User:Blu Aardvark|Blu Aardvark]] 09:28, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::With respect, your perspective that evolution = chance is false. The following link is a good introduction to explaining why this is so [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html]. It's a bit complicated in places, however. [[User:Nematocyte|Nematocyte]] 09:50, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Aardvark, one point to make, Creation is not a testable situation but evolution is.  Just observation over time of species can support evolution.  Viral and bacterial genetic adaptations supports evolution as well as breeding of dogs and corn.  If you could not mate two different breeds of dogs and get a new breed over time then evolution would be rendered false.  Two different pieces of evidence supporting both micro and macro evolution.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 11:06, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's not convincing at all. There's no evidence at all. I spent 3 hours yesterday talking via [[Internet Relay Chat]] with two of the smartest people at Wikipedia, and they were unable to show any evidence of a new species coming into being via natural forces; any evidence supporting the [[Theory of evolution through natural selection]]; or even the appearance of a new species of [[microbe]]. Among other things, &amp;quot;Andre&amp;quot; kept confusing [[strain]] with [[species]]. I'd love to show a transcript but we had all agreed not to log the chat session. Darn. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:59, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:As for the origin of a new species, no it would not be clear since speciation usually involves relatively small changes, be they physiological, morphological, behavioral, or, as often the case, simply genetic.  The only way for us to determine if a new species had evolved would be through a series of comparisons of the organism to the parent species.  This can be a problem due to horizontal gene transfer which can make it even more difficult to define a new species. All definitions of species assume that an organism gets all its genes from one or two parents which are very like that organism, but horizontal gene transfer makes that assumption false.  So in regards to finding a new species, it will not be evident.  All that can be shown to provide evidence for evolution in organisms in a controlled environment would be the small mutations that cause physiological change in the offspring such as antibiotic resistance in bacteria.  Would this be considered a new species of bacteria, no it would be a new strain.  However what would define a new species of bacteria?  A change of shape, say from rod to sphere?  This might be possible if the bacteria were subjected to gradual environmental stresses.  Perhaps I should try this in the lab (could make a very interesting observation).--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 17:19, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The thing is, evolution is shoved down out throats as a fact. The truth of the matter is, theres evidence to support multipul theories of existance. The problem is that evolution is the one that is being taught simply because its the most &amp;quot;scientific&amp;quot;. i don't think man will ever know the absolute truth. Never. But what can you do? [[User: DfairlyXED13|DfairlyXED13]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No one is forcing anything down your throat.  You are free to believe that the earth and everything was created 4000 years ago (or 6000 or whatever your Bible tells you).  I am glad you know the absolute truth.  You may be perturbed to learn that much of modern medicine depends on a knowledge of evolution and the role it plays today - particularly with respect to those nasties we call bacteria that can kill.  But then, I am sure you have alternate explanations that work for you, good. I am sure it may also perturb you that millions and billions of others seem to be ignorant of what you believe or do not want to believe whatever you believe.  So, what can you do?  Believe what you believe, spread your word loudly so everyone can hear.  Preach the words you know to everyone and defend yourself against attacks as coming from ignorant people who do not know the absolute truth.  I would also recommend you simply stop taking science and math classes, they will distress you.[[User:Seekcommon]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd have to say that the very reason the Evolution - Creation debate is such a hotbed of activity is because those that interpret scripture literally are threatened by it. If the theory of evolution were as blatantly false as its opponents dictate, then it would be little threat to Creationist thinking, and therefore not worth the time and energy debating. However, because popular opinion overwhelmingly supports the theory of evolution, it comes as a threat to its opponents, one that they spend enormous amounts of energy trying to refute, often with belittling attacks that point out flaws or missing details (ironically only strengthening the scientific method in practice). And I don't really care about anybody who says that the majority does NOT support evolution. That is just false. It doesn't matter if all of America denied evolution; the majority would still rest squarely on the shoulders of Evolution. That's right, there is, in fact, a world outside of the United States' public opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
Also, it's interesting to note that there are very few (if any) people opposed to the theory of evolution without religios overtones. It seems like the problem arises only when a perceived contradiction with Scripture is observed. In fact, all opponents of the theory of evolution have had a religious agenda replacing it. If the scientific evidence against Evolution were truly as vast as Creationists explain, then the Evolution theory would be eclipsed by another scientific theory. But, since that hasn't happened yet, it looks like most of the available evidence points towards evolution.&lt;br /&gt;
p.s. if anyone can direct me to published works from non-religious alternatives to Evolution, please let me know!&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Probably because it makes more sense than the notion of creation.&lt;br /&gt;
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==Because your religion demands it==&lt;br /&gt;
The Humanist religion demands that you adopt the faith of evolution. I see everyone of that faith has chimed in together on that issue. That's good for you then. For the rest of us non-believers are yet to see any, and I mean any convincing evidence. Still only a theory, and always will be. Except for those of you with greater faith then me of course. Non-theistic religions need alot of that too.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 19:09, 31 July 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Roopilots6, why so cold? :-)&lt;br /&gt;
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It seems as if your response to everything regarding evolution and related is &amp;quot;Bah, humanists!&amp;quot; However, there's never any warranted argument there, or perhaps I am missing it. All you say is &amp;quot;I'm not convinced!&amp;quot; Could that be because ''your'' religion demands that you believe in Creationism? Sounds like a personal problem. ;-) Seriously, though, the point of Evolution is that it seeks proof. This is at odds with your claim that evolution is part of the &amp;quot;Humanist Religion&amp;quot; [[User:Bluecarrot16|Bluecarrot16]] 20:17, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Humanism is a type of religion, even if it does not have churches. In order to be a humanist, or a secular progressive, one has to accept all there beliefs. You obviously do. --[[User:Todd16|Todd]] 20:20, 28 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Maybe if people would attempt to read any of the Humanist Manifestos floating around they could possibly understand the direct correlation between Humanism and evolutionary theory. Perhaps it is because they are too cold to care and just say bah, Judeo-Christians! Easier just to accuse others of having a personal problem with an idea then to use any critical thinking on the subject. Here's a clue to it: Humanism rejects the spiritual realm as denoted by their manifesto and so does the 150+ year old theory of evolution.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 13:47, 16 September 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::FOOTNOTES- Humanist Manifestos I,II,2000,Amsterdam Declaration. All are available for reading through any search engine.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 13:52, 16 September 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Many Authoritative Sounding Assertions Does Not Make For A Conclusive Debate== &lt;br /&gt;
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These debates are silly as there are very few footnotes backing up assertions.  I suggest creating some noteworthy articles. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:40, 31 July 2007 (EDT) &lt;br /&gt;
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They are only silly if you adamantly oppose one view point in favor of the other.  It will not matter how many foot notes one provides, you will not look them up for your mind is made up in the matter. &lt;br /&gt;
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Let's face it, there are many &amp;quot;authoritative&amp;quot; voices coming from the scientific community that makes evolution convincing.  On the flip side, there are many &amp;quot;charasmatic&amp;quot; voices coming from the creation/intelligent design camp which counter those voices.  The evidence ends up being interpreted according to one's world view.&lt;br /&gt;
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{{unsigned|Jbw224}} (November 2007)&lt;br /&gt;
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Evolution is far from being proven.  What is this convincing evidence?  Some peppered moths changing colour.  That sounds like reproduction according to its own kind to me.  And fossils of extinct animals / dinosaurs?  These 'scientists' will consider any mass extinction theory, except the one written about in the Bible.  The evolution fantasy is clearly a theory, which is unbelievable, flawed and unprovable. Adam&lt;br /&gt;
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Evolution is a fantasy? I'm sorry, but at least it is something we can observe in some way or another with our own eyes, unlike your god. Chris&lt;br /&gt;
: Oh?  How many creatures or plants have you seen evolve into quite different creatures or plants?  Answer please.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 20:13, 19 February 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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: (paraphrasing Jbs224): Let's face it, there are many &amp;quot;authoritative&amp;quot; voices coming from the scientific community that makes creation convincing.  On the flip side, there are many &amp;quot;charasmatic&amp;quot; voices coming from the evolution camp which counter those voices.  The evidence ends up being interpreted according to one's world view.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 09:25, 30 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's funny about your so called authoritative voices in the scientific community that you mention are nearly all of them religious fundamentalists themselves...or at least funded by the Disc Institute, a religious think tank. If you want to &amp;quot;teach the controversy&amp;quot; then you can also teach holocaust denying, because there are plenty of &amp;quot;academics&amp;quot; who don't believe in the holocaust either.&lt;br /&gt;
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Evolution, like the existence of the holocaust, is strongly supported by evidence. Those who believe otherwise hasn't published a single article and submitted it for peer revision in the realm of academics.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 14:24, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Conservapedia_representing_a_conservative_POV_or_a_Young_Earth_Creationist_POV%3F&amp;diff=407028</id>
		<title>Debate:Is Conservapedia representing a conservative POV or a Young Earth Creationist POV?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Conservapedia_representing_a_conservative_POV_or_a_Young_Earth_Creationist_POV%3F&amp;diff=407028"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:13:39Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;==Conservative==&lt;br /&gt;
Am I to understand that not all conservatives are Young Earth Creationists? --[[User:Cranky Joe|Cranky Joe]] 00:18, 21 February 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I should leave it alone, but it never hurts to put information out there.&lt;br /&gt;
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::Anybody can jump onto a domain registrar's site and secure any domain they like. I wish there was some authority ehich could be appealed to through which &amp;quot;Conservapedia&amp;quot; could be forced to change their name, but that's not how it works. This site rigidly presents a narrow set of theological views which are often at odds with consevativism. &lt;br /&gt;
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::I don't presume the authority to determine what sort of title would be appropriate for this wiki, but it is a shame that the choice domain name for a wiki which would actually present the constellation of political, historical and philosophical views which comprise conservative thought is rendered unavailible by this site. &lt;br /&gt;
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::It's clear that the domain name, by which a tiny group of militantly solipsistic biblical literalists presume to misappropriate the mantle of conservativism for themselves and their narrow worldview, has been seized by conservativism's critis as an opportunity to indulge in ramming their pitchforks into strawmen with a howling vulgarity and volume. &lt;br /&gt;
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::I've never seen Conservapedia cited by a single conservative blog, yet the stats show that Conservapedia is at least very popular with the left. A Google search of &amp;quot;conservapedia&amp;quot; returns 160,000 hits, 4,100 alone featuring the term &amp;quot;wingnut,&amp;quot; and every one which is not a hit to Conservapedia itself is a hit to a leftwing site eager to accept and amplify Conservapedia's claim to represent conservativism.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Conservapedia went online at the beginning of 2007. by March it was ranked way down at 1.8 millionth in Alexa. Then the left discovered it. By the end of the month, Conservapedia rose 1.2 million places to 600 thousandth. Conservapedia has been enormously successful as a target for derision and trolling. There are no fewer than two wikis and three blogs dedicated to &amp;quot;monitoring&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;countering&amp;quot; Conservapedia, which now stands at 46 thousandth after a spike caused, as far as I can tell, by a circulating leftosphere gag about the popularity of Conservapedia's entries on homosexuality. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::There is of course no aknowlegement in any of the leftosphere blogs that these rankings reflect their own activity on Conservapedia. Such is how Conservapedia came from being unintentional self-parody to constructed strawman. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I could go further in discussing what this all says of the left - their contempt for pluralistic discourse and corresponding eagerness to construct their opponents in their absence as black fools in a manechean fantacy construct - but that's getting far from the particular issue at hand. &amp;quot;Conservapedia&amp;quot; is the issue; The name. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I created this account and logged in the first, last and only previous occasion with good faith intention to participate in what might at least be a resource analogous to DKosfopedia. Instead I found much which raised questions for me. I raised those questions on the main talk page and got my answer in stark terms: this is an exclusively christian project, and if I didn't like it, I could start my own.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::That being the case, if this site isn't about conservativism at all, change your name, please.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
16:47, 23 February 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Young Earth Creationist==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would have to say YEC.  Most of the science articles have a YEC POV at the bottom.  If Conservapedia was representing the conservative POV then you would not see YEC POVS for everything without seeing some other conservative POV.&lt;br /&gt;
(comment from [[User:Tims]] --[[User:Aulis Eskola|Aulis Eskola]] 18:35, 10 May 2007 (EDT))&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: This just all goes back to the problem of using terms like conservative and liberal as blanket terms.  Obviously not all conservatives are YEC, but the adminstration of this site appears to believe the word conservative encompasses certain beliefs and there is no grey areas.  And I imagine in doing so they will alienate a good chunk of the population who consider themselves conservative.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:But the fact of the matter is, it's their site, they can call it what they want and run it how they want.  People can get on here and post all they want about how it's not fair and balanced, how it is irresponsible, etc, but it isn't going to make a lick of difference for how this site is managed no matter how valid the complaints are.  The only real way to effect any kind of change on a site like this is if you are conservative, but bothered by the rampant YEC articles, or whatever, is to just state how this doesn't match your personal ideologies and and walk away.  I believe the atmosphere is too unstable to actually convert someone, and the end result will be like-minded people running a wiki for like-minded folks, and there is nothing wrong with that.  --[[User:Colest|Colest]] 16:03, 9 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;Day&amp;quot;. Could the 7 &amp;quot;days &amp;quot; in which God created the earth (Genesis, English translation, ? from Hebrew, from?)&lt;br /&gt;
have as accurately been translated as &amp;quot;epoch&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;period of time&amp;quot;? Is the only valid translation &amp;quot;one revolution of the earth&amp;quot;? If God's &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; could be a billion years, 365 billion revolutions of the earth (and I do not see why not), all conflict with science on this point disappears. LA Times recent selection to put-down conservatives becomes moot. &lt;br /&gt;
[User: Howard Long, conservative scientist, June 22 2007 9AM PDT&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::To answer your question, the answer is &amp;quot;no&amp;quot;, because the Hebrew word used for &amp;quot;day&amp;quot; here means a literal, 24-hour day. [[User:DebateKid|DebateKid]] 17:17, 30 June 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::What about the passage in the the Bible about (paraphrasing, because I don't know the exact verse) &amp;quot;a thousand years is as a day int the mind of God, and a day a thousand years&amp;quot;?--[[User:Freiberg|Freiberg]] 14:45, 10 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::What about it? I think we all use metaphors sometimes. But that doesn't mean everything we say is a metaphor. The question is one of context - does the context indicate that the passage is meant to be a metaphor? Besides - it wasn't God himself saying that - it was Peter talking about God, and the passage in question was about the end of the world, not about creation (2 Peter 3:8). [[User:CobraA1|CobraA1]] 14:51, 4 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Young Earth Creationism isn't the conservative viewpoint. It's the religious fundamentalist viewpoint. YEC contradicts every branch of science ranging from geology to astrophysics.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 14:13, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Can_conservapedia_become_the_next_Wikipedia,_is_this_good_or_bad&amp;diff=407025</id>
		<title>Debate:Can conservapedia become the next Wikipedia, is this good or bad</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Can_conservapedia_become_the_next_Wikipedia,_is_this_good_or_bad&amp;diff=407025"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:12:01Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Conservapedia in it self is a good idea, but it does have its own flaws, short articals( the page on G W bush on conservapedia is at least 1/8 the size of the wikipedia version) practiclly no articals on Popular culture(artists, video games, tv shows ect.) the articals are short and could never be used for informative purposes. My question is how can cp ever even compare to wikipedia. what do you think needs to be changened to help Cp thrive?- Serg1&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: One of the biggest concerns of Conservapedia is to counteract a perceived bias of Wikipedia. What this does not address, however, is that Conservapedia is inherently biased in the opposite direction. If it the concern is that it is believed that Wikipedia is biased, then the best counteraction can be to present true objective articles, not ones simply biased in the opposite direction. If Conservapedia can accomplish this, then it can succeed in it can find truth. Otherwise, it is just doing the same things it hates Wikipedia for. -Casi&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Size alone is not the determining factor for Conservapedia.  Articles that put together a coherent and factual base of information are more strongly sought.  As is apparent, we don't wish to become [[Wikipedia]]; we feel there are many shortcomings in the way that system is run that prevent it from living up to its potential.  We don't want to compete with what they are, but would prefer to be what they should have been.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:CP has continued to both grow and fill out articles.  Pop culture is not our primary concern, but that area has been growing as well.  While we certainly have areas where continued improvement is sought, many of the predictions of doom sounded in debate pages back around February and March are rather laughable when read today. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 01:53, 27 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I do understand that CP is a good idea(the conservative versiion of wikipedia) but really it hasnt met my standards of any wiki(the information on it is too short) I wish that CP can shadow other wikis and (as learn together stated) become what wikipedia should have been And stay that way. Another question is manifested through this conclusion though; How?-Serg1 07:27, 28 december 2007&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::How do you eat an elephant? -- one bite at a time.  While there are a number of short articles, especially in helping to fill out categories and wikilinks, many of the articles that were short 9 months ago have been substantially expanded.  Any editors making positive contributions, yourself included, can have a hand in turning this site into the resource that was envisioned upon its creation.  Some areas, such as a fluid linking and category structure, have already seen great improvement and are becoming top rate.  With each day we continue to improve. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:42, 28 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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Conservapedia is far too liberal to be any good. --[[User:Cranky Joe|Cranky Joe]] 06:43, 3 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:Oh dear. I can't agree; Joe, I dare say you almost remind me of the obnoxious type of person that goes around claiming the [[New York Times]] has a conservative bias. In any case, I agree with Casi. The point here should not be to right a conservative article or go on a rant Because We Can. It should be to write an unbiased truth about something. And if we go off simply writing rants, then we will not be considered reliable. Unfortunately, I do think that 65% of the population will be uninterested in ''any'' site that openly identifies with an ideology, so that alone will disqualify CP from contention with WP. [[User:TheEvilSpartan|TheEvilSpartan]] 23:03, 3 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It should never seek to become Wikipedia, and it never will. Wikipedia tries to be neutral as much as possible. Conservapedia is conservative by definition. Therefore, it will not be used by anyone who isn't a conservative American citizen. People from anywhere else in the world with any other political orientations will not use it. [[User:CappyR|CappyR]] 22:41, 6 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Conservapedia can certainly become as BIG as Wikipedia if not BIGGER. But CP should possibly consider renaming itself to something less biased than Conservapedia. Even though Wikipedia is extremely liberal, the name itself doesn't imply it. CP on the other hand announces it in it's name as a conservative only source. Perhaps CP should rename itself BiasFreepedia.com. That's my TWO cents. --[[User:Watchman|Watchman]] 23:21, 8 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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I agree, the name(CP0 doesnt seem non biased&lt;br /&gt;
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I definitely agree with Casi, and coming from sort of the same direction is that Wikipedia is trying to be a real encycopledia with true information, not true information that is edited to make it suit someones views on how that information should be represented. It is twisting the truth, and that alone makes it unreliable as a mainstream encyclopedia. With that said I am sure many people come here to get the type of 'information' that they seek. I actually think it is rather sad that an encyclopedia used to be something you could rely on, and now it is just another forum for people with a certain way of thinking who are trying their best to make sure others end up with the same belief system as them. Information has nothing to do with opinions...--[[User:Truce|truce]] 20:38, 23 February 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
to Watchman, I doubt Wikipedia intended to be 'liberal'...it is just the way it has come about. This site intends to be conservative, so I don't think the name should be changed. If the name was changed to something less suspicious it would be deceiving people, unless that is of course what you want...just because you view the information here as being accurate because it accurately expresses your opinions on a subject doesn't make it the truth. --[[User:Truce|truce]] 20:38, 23 February 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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I do not believe Conservapedia could ever become as big as Wikipedia and if it ever did I think it would be a great shame. A site condemning the 'liberal bias' and condoning conservative and Christian bias, discussing homosexuality, liberal views and atheism in a blatant negative manner only shows how small minded some people are. The fact that the site only allows for American English to be used only supports my theory that it has been organised and created by a group of fascists; whatever happened to freedom of speech? As a British atheist I can't say that I am a fan of this site and I dare say that the majority of British people, regardless of religion, will not be fans because of the site condemning the use of British English; this is why Conservapedia will never be as big as Wikipedia; they are cutting themselves off from potential users. Though I am sure they wouldn't want people who use the British spelling of the English language using their site...funny that us British are being told that our spelling of a language created by us is wrong, specially when the majority of English speaking country spells things our way; not the American. Also funny that Conservapedia exclusively promotes and supports creationism which would suggest that 'God' is omnipotent yet is against homosexuality...if one believes 'God' is omnipotent then one is saying that he/she/it created all life including those homosexuals but if homosexuality is right then surely one is criticising the work of 'God' and saying he/she/it made a mistake; I find that most interesting.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dear Brit--- Homosexuality is not the work of GOD, Homosexuality is a choice made by human beings. GOD has given us freedom of will to follow HIS teachings and will or not. You are assuming, without any scientific foundation, that homosexuality is genetic or biological, which the article on this site does not support nor does the scientific community. Reading the complete article first, so you can make an honest and intelligent argument, would be wise, so as not to look the fool. &lt;br /&gt;
Concerning the English language, their are many dialects, which result in multiple pronunciations and spellings of words. Your assertion that the rest of the English speaking world follows the British example is rubbish and purposefully deceitful.(a practice commonly used by liberals, due to their lack of core values, lose morals and low intelligence. And in your case, the lack of guts and fortitude to at least sign your online name.) The roots of the English language were indeed &amp;quot;invented&amp;quot; by the Anglo Saxons, with heavy influences from old Norse, German, and French. And as with many languages it has evolved over time, many words used in the U.K. are of American origin and vice versa. Further more, I am forced to use your spelling when I frequent British sites as well, but I'm not whining. Where is Winston Churchill when you need him?  Majorpain a.k.a. Mike.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If the criteria for becoming as big as Wikipedia is as the angry atheist Brit has listed, then it's well worth NOT becoming like Wikipedia. Perhaps, it's the Brits that are polluting our online Wiki-resources with such liberal trash. Go George Washington! Cheers! --[[User:Watchman|Watchman]] 22:37, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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For a start, articles should be licensed under GFDL or CC. Why should anyone be motivated to edit an encyclopedia ''for free'' when their work ends up being owned by that encyclopedia? If I edit conservapedia, can anyone guarantee that my work will not someday fall into someone's hands who will claim exclusive rights over it, without giving me compensation? No. The reason I edit wikipedia is not because I trust the people who run it, but because GFDL guarantees that this will never happen. The wikimedia foundation only owns the servers, not the information on them. If they became corrupt one day and decided to use wikipedia to their personal advantage, somebody would soon create a fork that isn't corrupt. The GFDL allows this. With conservapedia on the other hand there is no guarantee. [[User:Cambrasa|Cambrasa]] 12:22, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The problem currently is that various articles are far too biased, and there are too many religious fundamentalists registered on this site. Case in point, historical articles such as &amp;quot;paper&amp;quot; barely has a single paragraph, whereas religious articles such as intelligent design/creationism/etc has many pages.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 14:12, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Does_History_Matter%3F&amp;diff=407024</id>
		<title>Debate:Does History Matter?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Does_History_Matter%3F&amp;diff=407024"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:10:55Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Henry Ford]] said, &amp;quot;I don't know much about history, and I wouldn't give a nickel for all the history in the world. History is more or less bunk. It is tradition. We want to live in the present, and the only history that is worth a tinker's [darn] is the history we make today.&amp;quot; [[George Santayana]] said &amp;quot;Progress, far from consisting in change, depends on retentiveness. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.&amp;quot; Who was closer to being right?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Henry Ford: &amp;quot;history is bunk&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
If ''&amp;quot;...the only history that is worth a tinker's [darn] is the history we make today&amp;quot;'', than who's to say the history we make today will be cared about by our children? ;-). If we don't care about history now, than none of our descendants will care about us. Of course even if we do care about history, there's still a huge chance they still won't care about their past. --[[User:Ymmotrojam|Ymmotrojam]] 18:22, 12 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I say let the govrnment take the history books and make their own history, then preach it to us [[User:Albobsman|Albobsman]] 13:03, 10 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==George Santayana: &amp;quot;condemned to repeat&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
The perfect example of this is the nation of Israel. Fortunately though, we've got a good God. Even when Israel was disobeying God and repenting again... over and over again, God was still faithful to His promises. And if we repent and put our trust in Him alone, we can avoid repeating those bad things in history. --[[User:Ymmotrojam|Ymmotrojam]] 18:35, 12 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Napoleon Bonaparte: &amp;quot;a lie agreed upon&amp;quot;==&lt;br /&gt;
While this is the classic Wikipedia model, I hope Conservapedia can avoid being condemned to repeat this bunk.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 16:36, 14 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;Vulgas vult decepi&amp;quot; -Phaedrus 15BC-50AD. Translated as &amp;quot;The people wish to be deceived.&amp;quot;--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 10:40, 3 June 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Other Perspectives==&lt;br /&gt;
If history doesn't matter, why don't we just make it so this wiki no longer stores the history of the pages that are created and edited ;-). --[[User:Ymmotrojam|Ymmotrojam]] 18:30, 12 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Who is this guy above?...what a joker :) my point is this: &lt;br /&gt;
History is a thing of the past hahahahahaha...seriously though, history is important and I think that if history is discarded then we not only remove the career option of archeologists etc, but also, people who have done great and brave things will be discarded also and things like the Holocaust should certainly not be forgotten as we must recognise this as a very terrible time. &lt;br /&gt;
What about things like the 'Tower of Freedom' and its purpose of marking the dreadful day of the terror attack on the Twin Towers...are we really going to discard that...are we going to discard the Somme, D-Day, Napoleon, Stalin, The Beatles, yes The Beatles were a rock group but they have had a massive impact on the world...think about it, Liverpool firmly on the map, Strawberry Fields...Penny Lane...yes, an impact they have made.&lt;br /&gt;
Also, to prevent disasters from happening such as the Mnt St Helens eruption, many lives could have been saved if only someone had looked at historical records of this volcanoe's previous eruptions and how they have occured and what happpened during the eruption.&lt;br /&gt;
History is important in court cases and such if something has just been uncovered even though it may have happened decades ago.&lt;br /&gt;
Are we able to discard history should be the question and the only answer to that is simple...NO!!!&lt;br /&gt;
[User: bealecr] 16:09, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Nobody cares about history==&lt;br /&gt;
Hell, look at Afghanistan. You can go back to the 1700s or 1980s to see that nobody can win there. Or, re Iraq, you can go back to the 1970s and Vietnam and see that you can't &amp;quot;liberate&amp;quot; a country that (with substantial justification in both cases) sees you simply as a self-interested neo-colonial oppressor. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Or you can just go to the local library, fire up the microfiche machine and look at the past 50 years of gun crime in the US. At least Australian Prime Minister John Howard outlawed assault rifles after Martin Bryant massacred all those people in Port Arthur in 1996.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What's the next blast from the past we can look forward to from the US? Witch burnings, perhaps, or simply some good, old-fashioned lynchings (though they'd be Mexican illegal immigrants this time, no doubt). Perhaps California, Oregon and New York should secede. --[[User:AppalledBystander|AppalledBystander]] 06:29, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:What does it mean to &amp;quot;win&amp;quot; in Afghanistan?  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 11:48, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I think he means essentially &amp;quot;conquer&amp;quot;.  Obviously, if no outside country can &amp;quot;win&amp;quot;, the Afghanis must be &amp;quot;winning&amp;quot; the wars of invasion/colonization/conquest etc. [[User:Human|Human]] 13:27, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::If that's the meaning, then the basic premise is flawed.  The US and NATO are not trying ot &amp;quot;conquer&amp;quot; Afghanistan.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:15, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Afghan history shows that any try from outside to conquer the country by military finally failed completely. Some success can definitely be reported regarding humanitarian support and building up basic infra structure, which surely needs protection through police forces and sometimes even military forces. Surely no perfect story and still much left to be done. The economy, i.e. farming is still mainly based on opium poppy. But even when slow, some progress has definitely been achieved. The number of children going to school sky rocketed, the number of girls in particular. So, history can teach you a lesson, but it cannot replace your own thinking. --[[User:Schifra|schifra]] 07:40, 24 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Everything matters ==&lt;br /&gt;
How will you know where your going unless you know where you've been. Archaeological history, the history of the sun, moon, earth, ...etc. How else could people plan for the future unless they knew the history of the past.  Which is why any historian worth their salt will get their information from multiple sources, archaeological artifacts and/or sites, and anthropological studies. History most definitely doesn't mean anything to those who try to rewrite it for selfish reasons. Such as political or assorted ideological purposes and used as propaganda to further their own agendas. Of which you will no doubt denote many examples of on this debate subject.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 20:10, 25 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==  Yes == &lt;br /&gt;
We can learn from it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Only from America could this question arise.&lt;br /&gt;
   - of course context matters&lt;br /&gt;
   - and of course we can learn from those who have gone before us&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mate...I totally agree!! In America, history is important too. Example: If someone had bothered to look at the history of Mnt. St. Helens' eruption, they would've realised that it will blow sideways. If they had but checked this, then many more lives would've been saved.&lt;br /&gt;
I can't believe that apparently nobody cares about their history, about the sacrifices people made so that we could be alive today. Just less than 100 years ago and again in 1939, thousands of brave men risked it all, laid down their lives so that we may speak English that we would retain our cultures, our pride, even so that we may live today and I'm sure they didn't do all this so that some idiot could say that they didn't care about history. Whoever that was is an ignorant pig and no I don't think that this view about the person is without evidence. I truly can not believe that someone thinks it appropriate to not recognise the importance of history, as history has shaped us, shaped whole cultures, whole countries, shaped the entire world.&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
==History *does* matter.==&lt;br /&gt;
There are things in history that should NEVER EVER be forgotten. If &amp;quot;history does not matter&amp;quot;, this technically would encompass things such as the second world war, or the reasons that lead to it; also forgotten would be the sacrifices millions of people made during that war, and all the inhumane atrocities carried out by people of those times: Nazi Germany´s horrifying human experiments, the Japanese-carried out atrocities in China, Soviet Russia and all the &amp;quot;good&amp;quot; their communist ideals did to the world, or the Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, &amp;quot;history&amp;quot; would technically encompass even the events of the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Still some of you dare say &amp;quot;History does not matter?&amp;quot; [[User:FreakyM|FreakyM]] 07:22, 24 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Coming in contact with other cultures one will notice a lot of differences. Which way is right is often a moot discussion, in particular when neglecting the historical background of these differences.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Yes!==&lt;br /&gt;
As Winston Churchill said, &amp;quot;If we do not study history we are doomed to repeat it&amp;quot;. Also from a Christian's perspective, we can learn about God's grace, sovereignty, etc. from history, and it helps us understand other cultures and religions. [[User:Mschel|Mschel]] 11:25, 30 August 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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NEVAR FORGET. Seriously though, history is crucial to morality and civilisation - but only so long as it is accurate. So many conflicts in the world today could be resolved if only people had access to unfiltered accounts of their people's histories, as both victims and aggressors. When it becomes warped and distorted to suit an ideology, revisionist history can be every bit as poisonous as organised religion. [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 22:01, 11 November 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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Yes history matters. Knowledge of one's own nation is very important. It is very important to realize though that history took place in a different place, and often times the tale from history that is widely disseminated is only a superficial recounting that leaves out many things that the historian does not agree with. For instance many people know that during Washington's farewell address he warned the nation to stay away from entangling foreign relations. In fact political parties have been created around this principal. But what is less well known is that he also warned about the dangers of political parties. So history is important, but so is actually researching the information yourself and not taking another person's word for it. [[User:Rellik|Rellik]] 20:02, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Geography==&lt;br /&gt;
If history matters its only because geography made it so. History and Geography/Geology invariably linked. Look at any historical event or any current event. &lt;br /&gt;
:The city of Venice, founded in a swampy marsh because Milanese (descendent's of Romans) were being attacked by barbarians. Found the marsh easily defensible.&lt;br /&gt;
:Discover of America, Columbus searching for a quick way to Asia&lt;br /&gt;
:Liberation of Kuwait 1991, Iraq invaded Kuwait seizing (then)25% of the worlds oil reserves.&lt;br /&gt;
:California, population quickly surged because of the Gold Rush, spawning statehood, more general westward expansion and a Trans-Atlantic railroad.&lt;br /&gt;
:The state of Utah, Mormons chased out of Missouri, settled at an 'oasis in the desert', would have likely been chased out of California.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
People who don't know history don't know geography either, both are '''important''' even though their effects are so large they are not entirely self evident with regard to the daily lives of individuals.--[[User:Mitrebox|Mitrebox]] 19:11, 26 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Abysmal==&lt;br /&gt;
There are almost no historical articles on conservpedia. Sections regarding historical events or topics barely have a single paragraph. Users should focus on that more. The problem I see here is various religious fanatics focusing on defacing science and blaming everything on commies and liberals.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 14:10, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Paper&amp;diff=407022</id>
		<title>Talk:Paper</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Paper&amp;diff=407022"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:03:13Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: New page: ==Papyrus vs paper== Added basic info regarding the nature of papyrus which is reeds pounded together and not true paper. Also the origins of modern paper... ~~~~&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Papyrus vs paper==&lt;br /&gt;
Added basic info regarding the nature of papyrus which is reeds pounded together and not true paper.&lt;br /&gt;
Also the origins of modern paper...&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 14:03, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Gunpowder&amp;diff=407020</id>
		<title>Gunpowder</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Gunpowder&amp;diff=407020"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:02:21Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Gunpowder''' is one of man's most significant [[invention]]s. It is a chemical mixture which burns extremely rapidly, and was used as a propellant in early [[small arms]] and [[cannon]]s. Experiments to improve the effectiveness and safety were some of the first true [[chemistry]] in the modern sense of the word. Formerly most (al)chemical experiments were obsessed with pursuing [[mysticism|mystical]] and [[occult]] goals such as eternal life.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Gunpowder is still used today in weapons, [[fireworks]], and [[special effects]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Weapons]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Paper&amp;diff=407019</id>
		<title>Paper</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Paper&amp;diff=407019"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T18:02:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Paper''' is a material used for writing, printing, wrapping, and other uses.  It is a thin material made of fibers, usually [[cellulose]] from [[wood]] pulp or from other plant fibers such as [[rice]].  The word paper comes from [[papyrus]], which was an early form of writing material used in ancient [[Egypt]]. Papyrus however, is not paper - it is reed strips pounded together. True paper, or paper made from the cellulose and wood pulp of plant materials, was invented in the [[Han Dynasty]] around the 2nd century BCE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category: Writing]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{expand}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Gunpowder&amp;diff=407016</id>
		<title>Talk:Gunpowder</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Gunpowder&amp;diff=407016"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:59:58Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: New page: Gunpowder not used in weapons? Deleted that portion because it's totally wrong.  The &amp;quot;black stuff&amp;quot; that ignites bullets, cannon shells, artillery rounds, etc is gunpowder. It's a more refi...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Gunpowder not used in weapons? Deleted that portion because it's totally wrong. &lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;black stuff&amp;quot; that ignites bullets, cannon shells, artillery rounds, etc is gunpowder.&lt;br /&gt;
It's a more refined form, but still gunpowder.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:59, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Hoplites&amp;diff=407013</id>
		<title>Talk:Hoplites</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Hoplites&amp;diff=407013"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:58:29Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Edits==&lt;br /&gt;
Timeline is off. Hoplites existed well into the 2nd century CE I believe.&lt;br /&gt;
Whereas their armor was quite varied. Only the rich upper class could afford bronze.&lt;br /&gt;
Most hoplites were millitas that were conscripted by the state in times of need - the armor&lt;br /&gt;
hoplites was nothing more than the clothes on their back. As city states grew richer,&lt;br /&gt;
they could afford better equipment - thus most &amp;quot;middle class&amp;quot; hoplites in later times would've been &lt;br /&gt;
equipped with linothorax (harded linen armor) or leather.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:50, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also added info about warfare &amp;amp; armor, and Roman maniples&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Hoplite warfare often consisted of &amp;quot;pushing matches&amp;quot; when one hoplite formation would try to push back the opposing hoplite formation. During these realtively short pushing matches, causalities were usually light, and since the leaders/generals would often be in the front rank, the outcome of the battle would be strategically decisive. Heavy infantry hoplites were especially against the Persian army which contained no heavy infantry to speak of. Even the &amp;quot;heavy infantry&amp;quot; 10,000 immortals wore a light metal scale tunic, and wielded wicker shields not suited to hand to hand combat&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The phalanx as a formation was adopted by the Romans. After suffering disastrous defeats by the hands of other Italian city states, the Romans adopted the maniple formation from their enemies - which was far more flexible than the phalanx.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:58, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Hoplites&amp;diff=407011</id>
		<title>Hoplites</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Hoplites&amp;diff=407011"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:58:19Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:Hoplites.jpg|thumb|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Hoplites''' (Greek:ὁπλίτης) were [[Greek]] heavy Infantry during the period around 6th to 2nd century BCE. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The hoplite armor was quite varied. Most hoplites were millitas that were conscripted by the state in times of need - the armor hoplites was nothing more than the clothes on their back. As city states grew richer, they could afford better equipment - thus most &amp;quot;middle class&amp;quot; hoplites in later times would've been equipped with linothorax (harded linen armor) or leather. Only the rich upper class could afford quality armor such as bronze. These hoplites wore full-face helmets probably made of [[bronze]] and wielded a heavy shield of wood covered in bronze. Their preferred weapon was a [[spear]], and a short sword as a backup weapon. In battle they often used the phalanx formation, which was essentially a wall of overlapping shields and spears and they moved as a cohesive unit. The name derives from ''Hoplon'', the formal name of their [[shield]]s. The shield was commonly known as an [[Aspis]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Traditionally hoplites were not professional [[soldier]]s, but often men of ordinary professions. They would purchase their own armor, which could lie unused for years, and the quality of the armor would reflect the material wealth of the bearer. They would be summoned to fight in the event of their city going to war. Hoplite warfare often consisted of &amp;quot;pushing matches&amp;quot; when one hoplite formation would try to push back the opposing hoplite formation. During these realtively short pushing matches, causalities were usually light, and since the leaders/generals would often be in the front rank, the outcome of the battle would be strategically decisive. Heavy infantry hoplites were especially against the Persian army which contained no heavy infantry to speak of. Even the &amp;quot;heavy infantry&amp;quot; 10,000 immortals wore a light metal scale tunic, and wielded wicker shields not suited to hand to hand combat. In the case of the Battle of Marathon, due to their thick bronze armor the Athenians often crushed the Persian troops to death.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Possibly the most renowned hoplites were those of the city of [[Sparta]] on the [[Peloponnese]], who famously wore scarlet red capes. Trained from birth these warriors were professionals, rather than the levied troops of their fellow Grecian cities. They were famous for their courage and their skill, but could often commit acts we would today consider atrocities. Their most famous hour was arguably the [[Battle of Thermopylae]]. &lt;br /&gt;
The terrain of Thermopylae suited the phalanx formation perfectly, as the narrow confines of the pass meant that the [[Persia]]n's superior numbers could not be brought to bear, not could the vulnerable flanks of the phalanx be exploited by the Persian cavalry.&lt;br /&gt;
The phalanx was further developed by the Macedonians and their successors into the sarrissa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The phalanx as a formation was adopted by the Romans. After suffering disastrous defeats by the hands of other Italian city states, the Romans adopted the maniple formation from their enemies - which was far more flexible than the phalanx.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Links==&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.hoplites.co.uk/html/hoplites.html]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Military History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Hoplites&amp;diff=407006</id>
		<title>Talk:Hoplites</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Hoplites&amp;diff=407006"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:50:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: New page: ==Edits== Timeline is off. Hoplites existed well into the 2nd century CE I believe. Whereas their armor was quite varied. Only the rich upper class could afford bronze. Most hoplites were ...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Edits==&lt;br /&gt;
Timeline is off. Hoplites existed well into the 2nd century CE I believe.&lt;br /&gt;
Whereas their armor was quite varied. Only the rich upper class could afford bronze.&lt;br /&gt;
Most hoplites were millitas that were conscripted by the state in times of need - the armor&lt;br /&gt;
hoplites was nothing more than the clothes on their back. As city states grew richer,&lt;br /&gt;
they could afford better equipment - thus most &amp;quot;middle class&amp;quot; hoplites in later times would've been &lt;br /&gt;
equipped with linothorax (harded linen armor) or leather.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:50, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Zheng_He&amp;diff=406999</id>
		<title>Zheng He</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Zheng_He&amp;diff=406999"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:45:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Zheng He''' (1405–1433) was a eunuch [[Muslim]] admiral for the [[Ming dynasty]] of [[China]] under emperor [[Yongle]]. He took a total of seven trips from China to [[India]], the [[Middle East]], South East Asia, and [[Africa]] with his large fleet of ships, manned by up to 30,000 sailors and marines. &lt;br /&gt;
The voyages were diplomatic missions, and was able to bring back exotic plants and animals from distant lands. (ie giraffes) The flagships of the fleet were &amp;quot;treasure ships,&amp;quot; huge vessels that reached up to 400 feet in length.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Sources==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Earth and Its Peoples A Global History, Bulliet et al, 2005. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Zheng He}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:China]]&lt;br /&gt;
{{Nb_explorers}}&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Zheng_He&amp;diff=406997</id>
		<title>Talk:Zheng He</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Zheng_He&amp;diff=406997"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:42:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I believe the idea of the fleet reaching the Americas is highly disputed.  I am not an expert on Chinese history, but I am pretty sure that the fleet was more likely to have reached Africa than America.  [[User:Jnl001|Jnl001]] 16:02, 22 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The vast majority of historians don't believe Zheng He went to the Americas. Only Gavin Menzes and his 1421 idea believes this, and is rejected by both Eastern and Western historians.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:42, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Thomas_Edison&amp;diff=406993</id>
		<title>Talk:Thomas Edison</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Thomas_Edison&amp;diff=406993"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:39:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;I question that rollback by MountainDew, whom I rarely question.  He's right that Edison professed at times to be agnostic, probably more so later in life.  But consistent, dedicated, lifelong agnostics are rare.  It wouldn't surprise me if Edison did credit God for his inventions earlier in life.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:04, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Possibly true, but is this &amp;quot;encyclopedia&amp;quot; a place for suppositions?  Sadly, it seem it is.&lt;br /&gt;
-Gasmonkey&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Certainly not.  But the rollback was not based on lack of citation, but on alleged falsity of the claim.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:11, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I didn't realize that Edison was not a lifelong agnostic and drop my objection. Maybe a cite would be even better. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 23:12, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Added Religious Viewpoints==&lt;br /&gt;
Added info regarding the Deistic religious beliefs of Thomas Edison.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:39, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Thomas_Edison&amp;diff=406991</id>
		<title>Thomas Edison</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Thomas_Edison&amp;diff=406991"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:38:29Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:875997.jpg|right|thumb|Thomas Alva Edison]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Thomas Edison''' (February 11, 1847 – October 18, 1931) is considered one of the greatest inventors in [[history]]. Some of his best known inventions are the light bulb, the mimeograph and phonograph. He patented over 1,000 inventions in his lifetime. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Childhood==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Alva Edison was born on Feb 11, 1847 in Milan, [[Ohio]]. His parents, Samuel Ogden Edison, Jr. and Nancy Matthews Elliott, had seven children, Thomas was the youngest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1854, his family moved to Port Huron, [[Michigan]], where the family remained while Thomas was growing up. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edison's mother, Nancy, was born in [[New York]] and raised in [[New England]]. Her family were Presbyterians, her father was a minister in their church. They stressed the importance of education to young Nancy, who went on to earn a teaching degree.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Education==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the age of 7 years, Edison was sent to the local public school, a one-room schoolhouse with 38 other students. Edison had some congenital hearing loss which became worse after a bout of scarlet fever, which hindered his being able to hear the teacher in the noisy classroom. The teacher became irritated by Edison's constant curiosity and questions, and annoyed by his not following directions due to his inability to hear them, and insisted he was incapable of learning. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edison's mother did not accept the teacher's evaluation of her son, and after he had spent 3 months in the school, chose to remove him from public school and educate him at home. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
She taught him to read from the [[Bible]], and his father encouraged him to read classical works. Edison was an avid reader and regularly frequented his local library. He took an interest in poetry, especially the works of [[Shakespeare]] and excelled in world history and English. Around the age of 12 he became exceedingly interested in [[Science]] and [[Chemistry]], especially the works of [[Isaac Newton]]. When he began to ask complex questions about [[Physics]] and Science concepts his parents decided to hire a tutor for him.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Young Adulthood==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edison was also an entrepreneur, and as a child made spending money by selling newspapers, candy, and fresh produce. As a teenager, in 1860, he decided to publish his own newspaper, ''&amp;quot;The Weekly Herald&amp;quot;'' which made a profit it's first edition and each one thereafter, and focused on political news and the United States Presidential debates between [[Abraham Lincoln]] and Senator [[Stephen A. Douglas]]. Edison agreed with Lincoln's stance on emancipation, and volunteered to work for his campaign office, distributing campaign literature on his behalf. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas was used to taking the initiative to learn on his own, and had a very inquisitive nature, a strong desire to learn, an excellent memory, and the ability to understand complex concepts. He considered his hearing loss to work in his favor, as he was not distracted by outside noises and able to concentrate on his own thoughts. His hearing loss increased over time, and in later years he lost all hearing in his left ear and about 80% of the hearing in his right ear. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At 15 years of age, Edison learned [[Morse Code|Morse code]] and was hired as a telegraph operator. There were jobs available for workers of all ages, including youngsters, as many adult men were now engaged in fighting in the [[Civil War]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He worked in several telegraph offices, then decided to accept a job offer from the [[Western Union]] Company in Boston. He chose to move far from home as he felt Boston had a strong scientific community. He was known as a hard worker and routinely worked 12 hour days, 6 days a week. In the evenings after work, he developed his own inventions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Adulthood==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He obtained his first patent on his first &amp;quot;real&amp;quot; invention, an automatic vote-recording machine. However, as with many inventors first attempts, it was not well received and turned out to be unmarketable. This was not because it did not work; it worked well, it was because the market was not receptive to the invention.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
While in [[Boston]], Edison attended several lectures at Boston Tech, which would later be renamed the [[Massachusetts Institute of Technology]], also known as [[MIT]]. In 1869, after a year and a half in Boston, Edison decided to relocate to New York.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Due to his exceptional mechanical ability and knowledge he was able to find work as a repairman of automated devices for a financial firm. After work, he continued to thinker and experiment with mechanical devices. He had some success and was able to sell some of his inventions. The most important and profitable was a stock ticker he named the &amp;quot;Universal Stock Printer&amp;quot;, which he sold for $40,000. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With the profits he established a laboratory in Newark, [[New Jersey]], where he continued to develop his inventions. In his experiments, he always took a &amp;quot;hands-on&amp;quot; approach, and took nothing for granted, insisting on performing tests himself to compare his outcomes with previously recorded results.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He met and married Mary Stilwell, &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;They were married on Christmas Day, 1871, when Mary was sixteen. [http://www.sparknotes.com/biography/edison/terms/char_6.html (Spark Notes)] &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
and they had three children, Marion Estelle, Thomas Alva Jr, and William. (Later after Mary's death in 1884, he remarried. He wed his 2nd wife Mina Miller in 1886, they had 3 children, Madelene, Charles and Theodore, and remained together until his death).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
His first daughter was nicknamed &amp;quot;Dot&amp;quot;, and his first son &amp;quot;Dash&amp;quot; (see [[Morse Code]]). &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/edtime.html Edison: Timeline for Inventing Entertainment], Library of Congress &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Religious Viewpoints==&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Edison was heavily influenced by Thomas Paine's Age of Reason, and can be considered an adherent of Deism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Remarks made by Edison in advocacy of Deism;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Nature is what we know. We do not know the gods of religions. And nature is not kind, or merciful, or loving. If God made me -- the fabled God of the three qualities of which I spoke: mercy, kindness, love -- He also made the fish I catch and eat. And where do His mercy, kindness, and love for that fish come in? No; nature made us -- nature did it all -- not the gods of the religions&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Inventions==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1876 Edison left his Newark lab and established a laboratory in Menlo Park, New Jersey, where he earned the nickname ''&amp;quot;The Wizard of Menlo Park&amp;quot;''. The following year, in 1877, he invented the first [[phonograph]]. The tin foil phonograph was the first machine that could record and reproduce sound. This invention brought him worldwide recognition and acclaim and he was invited to meet U.S. President [[Rutherford B. Hayes]] in the [[White House]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
2 years later, in 1879, he developed the first working incandescent electric light bulb. The original idea for the light bulb had already been proposed, and different versions attempted, but no one had yet been able to develop an electric lighting system that was practical and economical enough for common use. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By 1882 Edison had established the first commercial power station, and began providing light and power to customers. In 1887, he established an electrical research and development center in West Orange, New Jersey, where he continued to work on electrical inventions and to developing technology that led to the first (silent) motion pictures. He concurrently worked on developing, then improving the phonograph, and recording equipment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 1890 Thomas Edison established the Edison General Electric Company, and in 1892 Edison's company and the Thomson-Houston Company combined to form the [[General Electric]] Company, which is a large and profitable company today, commonly known as GE.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Edison gained worldwide acclaim for his inventions. He continued working even with advancing age and in frail health, amassing a total of 1093 patents, more than any other inventor at that time. His last patent was obtained at age 83. He died at age 84, Oct 18th, 1931 in New Jersey. His inventions live on in everyday use by millions of people worldwide. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://edison.rutgers.edu/patents.htm Edison's Patents]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/edbiohm.html&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
http://edison.rutgers.edu/biogrphy.htm&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.projectshum.org/Edison/&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/gela/students/history_bio_edison.htm&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.famous-inventors.com/thomas-edison-biography.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.americaslibrary.gov/cgi-bin/page.cgi/aa/edison&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.nps.gov/archive/edis/edisonia.htm&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Inventors|Edison, Thomas Alva]] [[Category:Homeschooled persons]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Deism&amp;diff=406990</id>
		<title>Talk:Deism</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Deism&amp;diff=406990"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:36:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: /* Thoughts */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;What '''''did''''' Jefferson say about his religious beliefs? The fact that he did not call himself a does not mean that he was not one; his beliefs (about Jesus at any rate) seem to be deist. Maybe he described himself as something else? If so it would be worth mentioning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:BenjaminS|BenjaminS]] 22:52, 30 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that we should define Deism according the same way as the founder of deism did.  not the way that modern dictionaries do. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 10:14, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*I think we should mention both and note the differences... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 11:03, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Yeah, We should probably mention both, but for purposes of determining who was or wasn't a deist, we need to have a fixed standard, and I think that the founder's version should be used. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 11:21, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Controversy over Ben Franklin==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The dispute over whether Franklin was a lifelong Deist would enjoy life ever so much more if it could reside as a section of the [[Benjamin Franklin]] article. So I propose moving most of this dispute there. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:14, 27 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Thoughts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Paine was not a Founding Father of America by a long shot, having spent almost his entire life in England.  There is no one founder of deism, as the concepts and ideas have been around for much longer than the 1600's.  The only thing the &amp;quot;founder&amp;quot; adds is confusion by having concepts that really don't make much sense together.  There is God, but He's stepped aside and does not take any personal role in events, but yet there's also a heaven and a moral standard used for who goes there on a personal one on one basis.  Is He a personal God or is He aloof?  It appears to be both simultaneously.  One can see why deism died out relatively quickly under those conditions. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:55, 19 June 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Thomas Paine is a Founding Father==&lt;br /&gt;
Actually Thomas Paine is considered by many historians to be one of the &amp;quot;Fathers of the American Revolution.&amp;quot; He may have spent most of his life in Britain, but that's beside the point considering the American colonies were British territories before the revolution, and Americans were considered &amp;quot;British.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Paine arrived in the colonies just before the revolution, and was one of the few to advocate complete separation and total independence from British rule. Thomas Paine wrote the &amp;quot;Age of Reason,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;Common Sense&amp;quot; - the later being an extremely popular pro-independence pamphlet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
As for your later statements, who claims there is a moral standard? Consumption of pork, shellfish, and beef is considered immoral in many societies and religions. God being non-personal doesn't mean God is aloof. It just means everything that happens is already according to his 'grand design' so he has no need to directly intervene. As for Deism dying out, it hasn't died out, and what's your point? &lt;br /&gt;
If you want a philosophical debate, then I can assure you that religions followed today is far worse in terms of logic.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:36, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Deleted the 70 Miracles article==&lt;br /&gt;
Deleted this section;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;==70 Years of Miracles Account==&lt;br /&gt;
There is a book by Richard H. Harvey, entitled &amp;quot;70 Years of Miracles.&amp;quot; In it Harvey relates his experience in a Chemistry class at Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania in the 1920's.&lt;br /&gt;
According to Harvey, his professor Dr. Lee was a deist who for many years had spent time with each freshman class lecturing against prayer. After a couple of sessions discussing the power of natural laws and the lack of evidence that any god interferes with those laws, Lee would announce that he would drop a flask to the floor and challenged anyone to pray that the flask would remain whole.&lt;br /&gt;
Harvey then related that one year, a student finally found the courage to stand up and volunteer to pray. Lee dropped the flask and it rolled off his shoe to the floor without damage. The class cheered and Lee no longer delivered his annual lectures against prayer. [http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm fair use]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*1. It resembles this myth/story too much; http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm&lt;br /&gt;
*2. That really doesn't have anything to do with Deism. That story is really just about probability - just because you drop a glass flask doesn't mean it'll break. Also, the &amp;quot;was deist for many years&amp;quot; statement is suspect - the reason why Deists don't believe in Divine Intervention is because a God who created a perfect world would no need to &amp;quot;meddle&amp;quot; in the world. Having to bypass the laws of nature in order to alter the universe as a response to prayer demonstrates imperfection and weakness - meaning God never created the world perfectly in the first place, thus requiring him to constantly change it. &lt;br /&gt;
*Thus, I delete the entire section because it is irrelevant to Deism since it contradicts the core concepts of Deist philosophy.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 22:42, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Added that section since I can't delete the 70 years story.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:24, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Deism&amp;diff=406984</id>
		<title>Talk:Deism</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Deism&amp;diff=406984"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:24:07Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;What '''''did''''' Jefferson say about his religious beliefs? The fact that he did not call himself a does not mean that he was not one; his beliefs (about Jesus at any rate) seem to be deist. Maybe he described himself as something else? If so it would be worth mentioning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:BenjaminS|BenjaminS]] 22:52, 30 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that we should define Deism according the same way as the founder of deism did.  not the way that modern dictionaries do. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 10:14, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*I think we should mention both and note the differences... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 11:03, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Yeah, We should probably mention both, but for purposes of determining who was or wasn't a deist, we need to have a fixed standard, and I think that the founder's version should be used. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 11:21, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Controversy over Ben Franklin==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The dispute over whether Franklin was a lifelong Deist would enjoy life ever so much more if it could reside as a section of the [[Benjamin Franklin]] article. So I propose moving most of this dispute there. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:14, 27 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Thoughts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Paine was not a Founding Father of America by a long shot, having spent almost his entire life in England.  There is no one founder of deism, as the concepts and ideas have been around for much longer than the 1600's.  The only thing the &amp;quot;founder&amp;quot; adds is confusion by having concepts that really don't make much sense together.  There is God, but He's stepped aside and does not take any personal role in events, but yet there's also a heaven and a moral standard used for who goes there on a personal one on one basis.  Is He a personal God or is He aloof?  It appears to be both simultaneously.  One can see why deism died out relatively quickly under those conditions. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:55, 19 June 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Deleted the 70 Miracles article==&lt;br /&gt;
Deleted this section;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;==70 Years of Miracles Account==&lt;br /&gt;
There is a book by Richard H. Harvey, entitled &amp;quot;70 Years of Miracles.&amp;quot; In it Harvey relates his experience in a Chemistry class at Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania in the 1920's.&lt;br /&gt;
According to Harvey, his professor Dr. Lee was a deist who for many years had spent time with each freshman class lecturing against prayer. After a couple of sessions discussing the power of natural laws and the lack of evidence that any god interferes with those laws, Lee would announce that he would drop a flask to the floor and challenged anyone to pray that the flask would remain whole.&lt;br /&gt;
Harvey then related that one year, a student finally found the courage to stand up and volunteer to pray. Lee dropped the flask and it rolled off his shoe to the floor without damage. The class cheered and Lee no longer delivered his annual lectures against prayer. [http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm fair use]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*1. It resembles this myth/story too much; http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm&lt;br /&gt;
*2. That really doesn't have anything to do with Deism. That story is really just about probability - just because you drop a glass flask doesn't mean it'll break. Also, the &amp;quot;was deist for many years&amp;quot; statement is suspect - the reason why Deists don't believe in Divine Intervention is because a God who created a perfect world would no need to &amp;quot;meddle&amp;quot; in the world. Having to bypass the laws of nature in order to alter the universe as a response to prayer demonstrates imperfection and weakness - meaning God never created the world perfectly in the first place, thus requiring him to constantly change it. &lt;br /&gt;
*Thus, I delete the entire section because it is irrelevant to Deism since it contradicts the core concepts of Deist philosophy.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 22:42, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Added that section since I can't delete the 70 years story.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 13:24, 16 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Deism&amp;diff=406983</id>
		<title>Deism</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Deism&amp;diff=406983"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:21:46Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: /* 70 Years of Miracles Account */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The founder of the offshoot of '''Deism''' that found a place in [[England]] during the [[Reformation]] and reached the colonies was [[Lord Herbert of Cherbury]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.theologicalstudies.org/what_is_deism.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He came up with 5 essentials of Deism which are &amp;quot;(1) a belief in the existence of the Deity, (2) the obligation to reverence such a power, (3) the identification of worship with practical morality, (4) the obligation to repent of sin and to abandon it, and, (5) divine recompense in this world and the next&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.iep.utm.edu/d/deismeng.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;.  This was a rather odd variant mixing in many Christian virtues without Jesus, and rather foreign to traditional Deism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dictionaries' definitions of '''deism''' include:&lt;br /&gt;
:The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;American Heritage Dictionary, 4th edition&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster online: [http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/deism deism]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first definition refers to a conception of God sometimes called the ''[[deus otiosus]]''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Catholic Church]] would denounce Deism as a [[Heresy]] in the 1500s, for it's rejection of the divinity of Jesus Christ, the importance of the church, and eschewing the idea of Divine Intervention. While Lord Herbert would found the movement, by the 1800s his arguments were largely demolished by the philosopher Locke and his deconstruction of the concept of an 'Innate Truth'(Upon which much of Herbert's views on Deism were founded).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Matthew Tindal is generally credited with the modern incarnation of Deism and that practiced by the Founding Fathers who were Deists. &amp;quot;God designed all Mankind should at all times know, what he wills them to know, believe, profess, and practice; and has given them no other Means for this, but the Use of Reason.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Deism would enjoy a brief rise in the Western world through the 1800s, but by the early 20th century, it was on the decline. The Unitarian movement would absorb most of it's teachings and eventually produce the Unitarian Universalists. Deism today is a mixed bag without dogma or teachings beyond the idea that one should employ Reason to understand the universe. As a result, Deists who believe in Divine Intervention, Intelligent Design, and many other ideas that would have been alien to the earlier Deists are now around.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Deism and the Founding Fathers==&lt;br /&gt;
While almost all of the Founding Fathers were devout Christians, some it is believed were deists, at least according to some definitions of the term.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A famous deist in early American history was the Englishman [[Thomas Paine]], who espoused deism and popularized the term in his book [[The Age of Reason]]. It is believed this had an influence on deism in the colonies. [[Benjamin Franklin]] wrote in his autobiography about an earlier period in his life,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Franklin later repudiated many of his earlier views and he believed in a God that &amp;quot;ought to be worshiped,&amp;quot; and at the [[Constitutional Convention]] less than three years from his death [[Benjamin Franklin]] advocated public prayer. He praised [[Christianity]], but his letter to Ezra Stiles a month before his death was noncommittal as to the divinity of Jesus: &amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&amp;quot;As to [[Jesus]] of [[Nazareth]], my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and His Religion as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see.. I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubt as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I need not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect Soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble. I see no harm in its being believed, if that belief has good consequences, as probably it has, of making his Doctrines more respected and better observed.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another [[Founding Father]] described as a deist was [[Thomas Jefferson]]. Jefferson personally struggled with the divinity of Christ and produced an edited version of the Gospels, later known as the [[Jefferson Bible]], which contained only the moral and ethical teachings of Jesus and omitted third-person accounts of his life, particularly the accounts of the miracles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ten years from his death Jefferson stated that &amp;quot;[The Jefferson Bible] show that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel, and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its Author never said nor saw.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Jefferson, Letter to Charles Thomson, January 9, 1815&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The closer Jefferson approached his death, the more Christian he appeared.  He read the Bible daily as the end grew near.  His grandson described Jefferson as follows:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Thomas Jefferson Randolph, undated letter to biographer Henry S. Randall, reprinted in Masfield et al., ''The Real Thomas Jefferson'', p. 321.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:He was regular in his attendance [at] church, taking his prayer book with him.  He drew the plan of the Episcopal church in Charlottesville, was one of the largest contributors to its erection, and contributed regularly to the support of its minister.  I paid, after his death, his subscription of $200 to the erection of the Presbyterian church in the same village.  A gentleman of some distinction calling on him and expressing his disbelief in the truths of the Bible, his reply was, 'Then, sir, you have studied it to little purpose.'&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Modern Deism==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Modernly, as noted above, Deism has both declined and fractured, with some of its original ideas being adopted as part of &amp;quot;[[new age]]&amp;quot; movements. Variations of Deism that have developed or been proposed include [[Pandeism]] (enunciated in the 1850s, and merging Deism with [[Pantheism]], the idea that God is equal to the Universe); [[Polydeism]] (merging Deism with [[polytheism]], proposing that multiple Gods created then abandoned the Universe); and [[Panendeism]] (merging Deism with the 1830s idea of [[Panentheism]], that the Universe was part of God, but was also transcended by God). None of these offshoots has garnered a significant following relative to organized religions.&lt;br /&gt;
==70 Years of Miracles Account==&lt;br /&gt;
There is a book by Richard H. Harvey, entitled &amp;quot;70 Years of Miracles.&amp;quot; In it Harvey relates his experience in a Chemistry class at Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania in the 1920's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to Harvey, his professor Dr. Lee was a deist who for many years had spent time with each freshman class lecturing against prayer. After a couple of sessions discussing the power of natural laws and the lack of evidence that any god interferes with those laws, Lee would announce that he would drop a flask to the floor and challenged anyone to pray that the flask would remain whole.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Harvey then related that one year, a student finally found the courage to stand up and volunteer to pray. Lee dropped the flask and it rolled off his shoe to the floor without damage. The class cheered and Lee no longer delivered his annual lectures against prayer. [http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm fair use]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, this story has more to do with probability than actual Deism. Dropping a glass flask doesn't necessarily mean it'll break everytime. The chance of the flask not breaking is small, but not impossible - whereas the student's prayer was mere coincidence and good timing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The reason why Deists don't believe in Divine Intervention is because a God who created a perfect world would no need to &amp;quot;meddle&amp;quot; in the world. Having to bypass the laws of nature in order to alter the universe as a response to prayer demonstrates imperfection and weakness - meaning God never created the world perfectly in the first place, thus requiring him to constantly change it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Sources:'''&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See Also==&lt;br /&gt;
:[http://thedcl.org/christia/s/stephwill/agodeieg/agodeieg.html An Account of the Growth of Deism in England] by William Stephens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Types of Theism]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Deism&amp;diff=406982</id>
		<title>Deism</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Deism&amp;diff=406982"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T17:21:25Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The founder of the offshoot of '''Deism''' that found a place in [[England]] during the [[Reformation]] and reached the colonies was [[Lord Herbert of Cherbury]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.theologicalstudies.org/what_is_deism.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He came up with 5 essentials of Deism which are &amp;quot;(1) a belief in the existence of the Deity, (2) the obligation to reverence such a power, (3) the identification of worship with practical morality, (4) the obligation to repent of sin and to abandon it, and, (5) divine recompense in this world and the next&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.iep.utm.edu/d/deismeng.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;.  This was a rather odd variant mixing in many Christian virtues without Jesus, and rather foreign to traditional Deism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dictionaries' definitions of '''deism''' include:&lt;br /&gt;
:The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;American Heritage Dictionary, 4th edition&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster online: [http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/deism deism]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first definition refers to a conception of God sometimes called the ''[[deus otiosus]]''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Catholic Church]] would denounce Deism as a [[Heresy]] in the 1500s, for it's rejection of the divinity of Jesus Christ, the importance of the church, and eschewing the idea of Divine Intervention. While Lord Herbert would found the movement, by the 1800s his arguments were largely demolished by the philosopher Locke and his deconstruction of the concept of an 'Innate Truth'(Upon which much of Herbert's views on Deism were founded).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Matthew Tindal is generally credited with the modern incarnation of Deism and that practiced by the Founding Fathers who were Deists. &amp;quot;God designed all Mankind should at all times know, what he wills them to know, believe, profess, and practice; and has given them no other Means for this, but the Use of Reason.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Deism would enjoy a brief rise in the Western world through the 1800s, but by the early 20th century, it was on the decline. The Unitarian movement would absorb most of it's teachings and eventually produce the Unitarian Universalists. Deism today is a mixed bag without dogma or teachings beyond the idea that one should employ Reason to understand the universe. As a result, Deists who believe in Divine Intervention, Intelligent Design, and many other ideas that would have been alien to the earlier Deists are now around.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Deism and the Founding Fathers==&lt;br /&gt;
While almost all of the Founding Fathers were devout Christians, some it is believed were deists, at least according to some definitions of the term.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A famous deist in early American history was the Englishman [[Thomas Paine]], who espoused deism and popularized the term in his book [[The Age of Reason]]. It is believed this had an influence on deism in the colonies. [[Benjamin Franklin]] wrote in his autobiography about an earlier period in his life,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Franklin later repudiated many of his earlier views and he believed in a God that &amp;quot;ought to be worshiped,&amp;quot; and at the [[Constitutional Convention]] less than three years from his death [[Benjamin Franklin]] advocated public prayer. He praised [[Christianity]], but his letter to Ezra Stiles a month before his death was noncommittal as to the divinity of Jesus: &amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&amp;quot;As to [[Jesus]] of [[Nazareth]], my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and His Religion as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see.. I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubt as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I need not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect Soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble. I see no harm in its being believed, if that belief has good consequences, as probably it has, of making his Doctrines more respected and better observed.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another [[Founding Father]] described as a deist was [[Thomas Jefferson]]. Jefferson personally struggled with the divinity of Christ and produced an edited version of the Gospels, later known as the [[Jefferson Bible]], which contained only the moral and ethical teachings of Jesus and omitted third-person accounts of his life, particularly the accounts of the miracles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ten years from his death Jefferson stated that &amp;quot;[The Jefferson Bible] show that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel, and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its Author never said nor saw.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Jefferson, Letter to Charles Thomson, January 9, 1815&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The closer Jefferson approached his death, the more Christian he appeared.  He read the Bible daily as the end grew near.  His grandson described Jefferson as follows:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Thomas Jefferson Randolph, undated letter to biographer Henry S. Randall, reprinted in Masfield et al., ''The Real Thomas Jefferson'', p. 321.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:He was regular in his attendance [at] church, taking his prayer book with him.  He drew the plan of the Episcopal church in Charlottesville, was one of the largest contributors to its erection, and contributed regularly to the support of its minister.  I paid, after his death, his subscription of $200 to the erection of the Presbyterian church in the same village.  A gentleman of some distinction calling on him and expressing his disbelief in the truths of the Bible, his reply was, 'Then, sir, you have studied it to little purpose.'&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Modern Deism==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Modernly, as noted above, Deism has both declined and fractured, with some of its original ideas being adopted as part of &amp;quot;[[new age]]&amp;quot; movements. Variations of Deism that have developed or been proposed include [[Pandeism]] (enunciated in the 1850s, and merging Deism with [[Pantheism]], the idea that God is equal to the Universe); [[Polydeism]] (merging Deism with [[polytheism]], proposing that multiple Gods created then abandoned the Universe); and [[Panendeism]] (merging Deism with the 1830s idea of [[Panentheism]], that the Universe was part of God, but was also transcended by God). None of these offshoots has garnered a significant following relative to organized religions.&lt;br /&gt;
==70 Years of Miracles Account==&lt;br /&gt;
There is a book by Richard H. Harvey, entitled &amp;quot;70 Years of Miracles.&amp;quot; In it Harvey relates his experience in a Chemistry class at Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania in the 1920's.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to Harvey, his professor Dr. Lee was a deist who for many years had spent time with each freshman class lecturing against prayer. After a couple of sessions discussing the power of natural laws and the lack of evidence that any god interferes with those laws, Lee would announce that he would drop a flask to the floor and challenged anyone to pray that the flask would remain whole.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Harvey then related that one year, a student finally found the courage to stand up and volunteer to pray. Lee dropped the flask and it rolled off his shoe to the floor without damage. The class cheered and Lee no longer delivered his annual lectures against prayer. [http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm fair use]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# However, this story has more to do with probability than actual Deism. Dropping a glass flask doesn't necessarily mean it'll break everytime. The chance of the flask not breaking is small, but not impossible - whereas the student's prayer was mere coincidence and good timing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The reason why Deists don't believe in Divine Intervention is because a God who created a perfect world would no need to &amp;quot;meddle&amp;quot; in the world. Having to bypass the laws of nature in order to alter the universe as a response to prayer demonstrates imperfection and weakness - meaning God never created the world perfectly in the first place, thus requiring him to constantly change it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Sources:'''&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See Also==&lt;br /&gt;
:[http://thedcl.org/christia/s/stephwill/agodeieg/agodeieg.html An Account of the Growth of Deism in England] by William Stephens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Types of Theism]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Deism&amp;diff=406597</id>
		<title>Talk:Deism</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Deism&amp;diff=406597"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T02:43:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: /* Deleted the 70 Miracles article */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;What '''''did''''' Jefferson say about his religious beliefs? The fact that he did not call himself a does not mean that he was not one; his beliefs (about Jesus at any rate) seem to be deist. Maybe he described himself as something else? If so it would be worth mentioning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:BenjaminS|BenjaminS]] 22:52, 30 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that we should define Deism according the same way as the founder of deism did.  not the way that modern dictionaries do. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 10:14, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*I think we should mention both and note the differences... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 11:03, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Yeah, We should probably mention both, but for purposes of determining who was or wasn't a deist, we need to have a fixed standard, and I think that the founder's version should be used. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 11:21, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Controversy over Ben Franklin==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The dispute over whether Franklin was a lifelong Deist would enjoy life ever so much more if it could reside as a section of the [[Benjamin Franklin]] article. So I propose moving most of this dispute there. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:14, 27 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Thoughts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Paine was not a Founding Father of America by a long shot, having spent almost his entire life in England.  There is no one founder of deism, as the concepts and ideas have been around for much longer than the 1600's.  The only thing the &amp;quot;founder&amp;quot; adds is confusion by having concepts that really don't make much sense together.  There is God, but He's stepped aside and does not take any personal role in events, but yet there's also a heaven and a moral standard used for who goes there on a personal one on one basis.  Is He a personal God or is He aloof?  It appears to be both simultaneously.  One can see why deism died out relatively quickly under those conditions. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:55, 19 June 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Deleted the 70 Miracles article==&lt;br /&gt;
Deleted this section;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;==70 Years of Miracles Account==&lt;br /&gt;
There is a book by Richard H. Harvey, entitled &amp;quot;70 Years of Miracles.&amp;quot; In it Harvey relates his experience in a Chemistry class at Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania in the 1920's.&lt;br /&gt;
According to Harvey, his professor Dr. Lee was a deist who for many years had spent time with each freshman class lecturing against prayer. After a couple of sessions discussing the power of natural laws and the lack of evidence that any god interferes with those laws, Lee would announce that he would drop a flask to the floor and challenged anyone to pray that the flask would remain whole.&lt;br /&gt;
Harvey then related that one year, a student finally found the courage to stand up and volunteer to pray. Lee dropped the flask and it rolled off his shoe to the floor without damage. The class cheered and Lee no longer delivered his annual lectures against prayer. [http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm fair use]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*1. It resembles this myth/story too much; http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm&lt;br /&gt;
*2. That really doesn't have anything to do with Deism. That story is really just about probability - just because you drop a glass flask doesn't mean it'll break. Also, the &amp;quot;was deist for many years&amp;quot; statement is suspect - the reason why Deists don't believe in Divine Intervention is because a God who created a perfect world would no need to &amp;quot;meddle&amp;quot; in the world. Having to bypass the laws of nature in order to alter the universe as a response to prayer demonstrates imperfection and weakness - meaning God never created the world perfectly in the first place, thus requiring him to constantly change it. &lt;br /&gt;
*Thus, I delete the entire section because it is irrelevant to Deism since it contradicts the core concepts of Deist philosophy.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 22:42, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Deism&amp;diff=406596</id>
		<title>Talk:Deism</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Deism&amp;diff=406596"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T02:42:52Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;What '''''did''''' Jefferson say about his religious beliefs? The fact that he did not call himself a does not mean that he was not one; his beliefs (about Jesus at any rate) seem to be deist. Maybe he described himself as something else? If so it would be worth mentioning.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:BenjaminS|BenjaminS]] 22:52, 30 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think that we should define Deism according the same way as the founder of deism did.  not the way that modern dictionaries do. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 10:14, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*I think we should mention both and note the differences... [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 11:03, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Yeah, We should probably mention both, but for purposes of determining who was or wasn't a deist, we need to have a fixed standard, and I think that the founder's version should be used. --[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 11:21, 31 January 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Controversy over Ben Franklin==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The dispute over whether Franklin was a lifelong Deist would enjoy life ever so much more if it could reside as a section of the [[Benjamin Franklin]] article. So I propose moving most of this dispute there. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:14, 27 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Thoughts ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas Paine was not a Founding Father of America by a long shot, having spent almost his entire life in England.  There is no one founder of deism, as the concepts and ideas have been around for much longer than the 1600's.  The only thing the &amp;quot;founder&amp;quot; adds is confusion by having concepts that really don't make much sense together.  There is God, but He's stepped aside and does not take any personal role in events, but yet there's also a heaven and a moral standard used for who goes there on a personal one on one basis.  Is He a personal God or is He aloof?  It appears to be both simultaneously.  One can see why deism died out relatively quickly under those conditions. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:55, 19 June 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Deleted the 70 Miracles article==&lt;br /&gt;
Deleted this section;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;==70 Years of Miracles Account==&lt;br /&gt;
There is a book by Richard H. Harvey, entitled &amp;quot;70 Years of Miracles.&amp;quot; In it Harvey relates his experience in a Chemistry class at Allegheny College in Meadville, Pennsylvania in the 1920's.&lt;br /&gt;
According to Harvey, his professor Dr. Lee was a deist who for many years had spent time with each freshman class lecturing against prayer. After a couple of sessions discussing the power of natural laws and the lack of evidence that any god interferes with those laws, Lee would announce that he would drop a flask to the floor and challenged anyone to pray that the flask would remain whole.&lt;br /&gt;
Harvey then related that one year, a student finally found the courage to stand up and volunteer to pray. Lee dropped the flask and it rolled off his shoe to the floor without damage. The class cheered and Lee no longer delivered his annual lectures against prayer. [http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm fair use]&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
1. It resembles this myth/story too much; http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/ath/blathm_urb_chalk.htm&lt;br /&gt;
2. That really doesn't have anything to do with Deism. That story is really just about probability - just because you drop a glass flask doesn't mean it'll break. Also, the &amp;quot;was deist for many years&amp;quot; statement is suspect - the reason why Deists don't believe in Divine Intervention is because a God who created a perfect world would no need to &amp;quot;meddle&amp;quot; in the world. Having to bypass the laws of nature in order to alter the universe as a response to prayer demonstrates imperfection and weakness - meaning God never created the world perfectly in the first place, thus requiring him to constantly change it. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thus, I delete the entire section because it is irrelevant to Deism since it contradicts the core concepts of Deist philosophy.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Intranetusa|Intranetusa]] 22:42, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Deism&amp;diff=406591</id>
		<title>Deism</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Deism&amp;diff=406591"/>
		<updated>2008-03-16T02:39:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;Intranetusa: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The founder of the offshoot of '''Deism''' that found a place in [[England]] during the [[Reformation]] and reached the colonies was [[Lord Herbert of Cherbury]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.theologicalstudies.org/what_is_deism.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; He came up with 5 essentials of Deism which are &amp;quot;(1) a belief in the existence of the Deity, (2) the obligation to reverence such a power, (3) the identification of worship with practical morality, (4) the obligation to repent of sin and to abandon it, and, (5) divine recompense in this world and the next&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.iep.utm.edu/d/deismeng.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;.  This was a rather odd variant mixing in many Christian virtues without Jesus, and rather foreign to traditional Deism.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dictionaries' definitions of '''deism''' include:&lt;br /&gt;
:The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;American Heritage Dictionary, 4th edition&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
and&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Merriam-Webster online: [http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/deism deism]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The first definition refers to a conception of God sometimes called the ''[[deus otiosus]]''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Catholic Church]] would denounce Deism as a [[Heresy]] in the 1500s, for it's rejection of the divinity of Jesus Christ, the importance of the church, and eschewing the idea of Divine Intervention. While Lord Herbert would found the movement, by the 1800s his arguments were largely demolished by the philosopher Locke and his deconstruction of the concept of an 'Innate Truth'(Upon which much of Herbert's views on Deism were founded).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Matthew Tindal is generally credited with the modern incarnation of Deism and that practiced by the Founding Fathers who were Deists. &amp;quot;God designed all Mankind should at all times know, what he wills them to know, believe, profess, and practice; and has given them no other Means for this, but the Use of Reason.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Deism would enjoy a brief rise in the Western world through the 1800s, but by the early 20th century, it was on the decline. The Unitarian movement would absorb most of it's teachings and eventually produce the Unitarian Universalists. Deism today is a mixed bag without dogma or teachings beyond the idea that one should employ Reason to understand the universe. As a result, Deists who believe in Divine Intervention, Intelligent Design, and many other ideas that would have been alien to the earlier Deists are now around.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Deism and the Founding Fathers==&lt;br /&gt;
While almost all of the Founding Fathers were devout Christians, some it is believed were deists, at least according to some definitions of the term.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A famous deist in early American history was the Englishman [[Thomas Paine]], who espoused deism and popularized the term in his book [[The Age of Reason]]. It is believed this had an influence on deism in the colonies. [[Benjamin Franklin]] wrote in his autobiography about an earlier period in his life,&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;Some books against Deism fell into my hands; they were said to be the substance of sermons preached at Boyle's Lectures. It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist.&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Franklin later repudiated many of his earlier views and he believed in a God that &amp;quot;ought to be worshiped,&amp;quot; and at the [[Constitutional Convention]] less than three years from his death [[Benjamin Franklin]] advocated public prayer. He praised [[Christianity]], but his letter to Ezra Stiles a month before his death was noncommittal as to the divinity of Jesus: &amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&amp;quot;As to [[Jesus]] of [[Nazareth]], my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and His Religion as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see.. I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubt as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I need not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect Soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble. I see no harm in its being believed, if that belief has good consequences, as probably it has, of making his Doctrines more respected and better observed.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another [[Founding Father]] described as a deist was [[Thomas Jefferson]]. Jefferson personally struggled with the divinity of Christ and produced an edited version of the Gospels, later known as the [[Jefferson Bible]], which contained only the moral and ethical teachings of Jesus and omitted third-person accounts of his life, particularly the accounts of the miracles.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ten years from his death Jefferson stated that &amp;quot;[The Jefferson Bible] show that I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus, very different from the Platonists, who call me infidel, and themselves Christians and preachers of the gospel, while they draw all their characteristic dogmas from what its Author never said nor saw.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Jefferson, Letter to Charles Thomson, January 9, 1815&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The closer Jefferson approached his death, the more Christian he appeared.  He read the Bible daily as the end grew near.  His grandson described Jefferson as follows:&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Thomas Jefferson Randolph, undated letter to biographer Henry S. Randall, reprinted in Masfield et al., ''The Real Thomas Jefferson'', p. 321.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:He was regular in his attendance [at] church, taking his prayer book with him.  He drew the plan of the Episcopal church in Charlottesville, was one of the largest contributors to its erection, and contributed regularly to the support of its minister.  I paid, after his death, his subscription of $200 to the erection of the Presbyterian church in the same village.  A gentleman of some distinction calling on him and expressing his disbelief in the truths of the Bible, his reply was, 'Then, sir, you have studied it to little purpose.'&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Modern Deism==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Modernly, as noted above, Deism has both declined and fractured, with some of its original ideas being adopted as part of &amp;quot;[[new age]]&amp;quot; movements. Variations of Deism that have developed or been proposed include [[Pandeism]] (enunciated in the 1850s, and merging Deism with [[Pantheism]], the idea that God is equal to the Universe); [[Polydeism]] (merging Deism with [[polytheism]], proposing that multiple Gods created then abandoned the Universe); and [[Panendeism]] (merging Deism with the 1830s idea of [[Panentheism]], that the Universe was part of God, but was also transcended by God). None of these offshoots has garnered a significant following relative to organized religions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Sources:'''&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See Also==&lt;br /&gt;
:[http://thedcl.org/christia/s/stephwill/agodeieg/agodeieg.html An Account of the Growth of Deism in England] by William Stephens.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Types of Theism]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>Intranetusa</name></author>
	</entry>
</feed>