Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-05-07T13:45:11Z

Denzinger: /* External links */

The '''Catholic Church''' is, literally, the ''Universal Church'' of [[Jesus Christ]] (from the Greek ''katholikos'', "universal"). Catholic Church is a Christian church that is headed by the pope, the bishop of Rome, currently [[Pope Benedict XVI]]. She is one of the largest religions in the world, with more than 1 billion adherents (In the United States more than 64 million.) The Catholic Church is the oldest institution in the western world. The Pope is the successor of [[Saint Peter]].

To belong to the church one must accept as factually true the gospel of our lord [[Jesus Christ]]. ''"The chief teachings of the Catholic church are: God’s objective existence; God’s interest in individual human beings, who can enter into relations with God (through prayer); the Trinity; the divinity of Jesus; the immortality of the soul of each human being, each one being accountable at death for his or her actions in life, with the award of heaven or hell; the resurrection of the dead; the historicity of the Gospels; and the divine commission of the church. In addition the Roman Catholic Church stresses that since the members, living and dead, share in each other’s merits, the [[Virgin Mary]] and other saints and the dead in purgatory are never forgotten." '' <ref> [http://www.bartleby.com/65/ro/RomanCat.html The Columbia Encyclopedia]</ref> The presence of Christ is believed to be present in the Eucharist, the bread and wine is Jesus himself. Another essential belief is the veneration of Mary, the mother of Jesus as the Blessed Virgin Mary and veneration of the saints.

The principal sources for the essential beliefs of the Catholic Church are the Sacred Scriptures (the Bible), Sacred Tradition, and Living Magisterium of the Church.

[[Image:Cerro_de_Angeles.jpg|right|thumb|Cerro de los Angeles, Madrid, Spain.]]

== History ==

The original Christian community was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ and led by the Apostles.
St. [[Paul the Apostle]] was together with St. Peter, the most notable of Early Christian missionaries. After an initial period of persecution, Christianity was legalized in the fourth century by Constantine I. In 380, Emperor Theodosius I accepted Catholic Christianity as the official religion of the [[Roman Empire]]. During the [[Middle Ages]] the Church underwent a time of missionary activity and expansion. This Catholic Christian Church underwent in 1054 a great schism that divided the Church into a Western (Latin) branch, which has been called as the Catholic Church and an Eastern branch, which has become known as the [[Orthodox Church]]. The second schism was the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. During the First Vatican Council (1869–1870) and the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965) the Catholic Church undertook the most comprehensive reforms. She stretched relations with other Christian communities and other religions. She also issued directions for a revision of the liturgy.

==Different churches==

The term "The Catholic Church" refers to any one of several Rites, but in the United States is often used synonymously for the largest Rite, the Roman Catholic Church. Other Rites include the Byzantine, Alexandrian, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean Rites. The Eastern rites have significant differences in liturgy, history, discipline and hierarchy from the Roman Catholic Church, but still recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) and are in communion with Rome. These Eastern Rite churches are Catholic and do not belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The Eastern branches do not have a single umbrella organization. They include the Eastern Orthodox Church and a number of Eastern Catholic Churches. Despite important differences in doctrine, the Catholic Church and the Eastern churches recognize each other as part of the Catholic Church. For example, each of them accepts each others' Holy Orders (priesthood) as valid.

The [[Roman Catholic Church]] historically regarded Protestant Christianity as heretical, that is, being against Church doctrine. However, this changed in the 1960's when Pope John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council, where '''the''' '''doors of the Church were opened wide''', and Protestants referred to as '''"our separated brethren".''' This was an exciting period for Catholics and Protestants alike as moves were made to bring the separated churches back together.

[[Image:JpII.jpg|right|thumb|John Paul II]]

The Anglican Church (Episcopalian in the United States) occupies an odd situation, because it encompasses within it factions ("Low Church") that emphasize its Protestant aspects and factions ("High Church") that emphasize its Catholic aspects. Anglo-Catholics regard the Anglican church as part of the Catholic Church, and in the unbroken line of the Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern branches take a position that could be described as saying that the Anglican Church is almost but not quite Catholic. There have long been unification overtures, and Anglican priests who wish to adopt Catholic Holy Orders are often provided with an abbreviated path to that goal.

The [[Nicene Creed]], the great historical statement of Christian belief, contains the line "I [or we] believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church". The [[Apostles' Creed]] contains a similar affirmation. However, Protestants and Catholics place different interpretations on the term "Catholic" (or "catholic"). Protestants believe that it refers to the general, over-arching spiritual unity of all Christians which transcends individual churches and denominations. Catholics, on the other hand, believe that the [[Roman Catholic Church]], as the single true church founded by Christ, is the universal Catholic Church. Some prefer not to refer to their own church as the "Roman" Catholic Church, on the grounds that such formulations implicitly deny this point of doctrine.

== Saint Paul's Writings ==

St. Paul is the second most prolific contributor to the New Testament. Thirteen letters are attributed to him. The letters are written in Greek. The epistles contain the earliest account of Christian doctrine and provide information on the life of the infant Church. They are full of expositions of what Christians should believe and how they should live.

<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">

''St. Paul reminded the Christians how they should live. They should think about the things in heaven (Colossians 3:2), because they belong with Christ (Colossians 3:3-4). They should not do evil deeds (Colossians 3:5-11). Instead, they should love other people (Colossians 3:12-14). And they should serve God (Colossians 3:15-17). If we invite Jesus into our lives, we will become friends of God (Colossians 1:15-23).'' </blockquote>

St. Paul's influence on Christian thinking has been more significant than any other single New Testament author.

== Fathers ==

St. Ambrose, Bishop of Milan from 374 to 397, was one of the most illustrious Fathers and Doctors of the Church, and fitly chosen, together with St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Athanasius, to uphold the venerable Chair of the Prince of the Apostles in the tribune of St. Peter's at Rome. <ref>[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01383c.htm St. Ambrose] Catholic Encyclopedia.</ref>

==Controversy==

There has been much controversy in recent years about Catholic priests in relation to the abuse of children in their care. Cases of pedophilia and ephebophilia have both been discovered in many churches across the world<ref>http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex.htm</ref>. Many instances of abuse occurred with little or no repercussion for priests involved. In some cases, bishops were aware of the abuse but did not effectively deal with it, allowing the abusive priest to continue to remain in contact with minors.

[[Image:Virgen.jpg|right|thumb|Virgin Mary and Child]]

== See also ==

*[[Jesus Christ]]
*[[Vatican City]]
*[[Pope John Paul II]]
*[[Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer]]
*[[Dead Sea Scrolls]]

==External links==

*[http://tcrnews2.com/VaticanCouncil2.html The Reasons for the Second Vatican Council]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/vonbalthasarfathers.html The Fathers, the Scholastics, and Ourselves ]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/predestination.html Ruminating on Laughter, Predestination, Mystery ]
*[http://www.cua.edu/ The Catholic University of America] Washington, D. C.
*[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11567b.htm St. Paul] Catholic Encyclopedia.
*[http://tcrnews2.com/Marykerygma05.html Mary is not the Kerygma]

*[http://tcrnews2.com/RFK_daughter.html Kathleen Kennedy Townsend: Failing America's Faithful]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/ChristNietzscheIslam.html A Civilization Without the Influence of Jesus Christ]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/Birds_Trojan.html Birds of a Feather and Trojan Horse Islam]

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Christianity]]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-05-07T13:27:18Z

Denzinger: /* External links */

The '''Catholic Church''' is, literally, the ''Universal Church'' of [[Jesus Christ]] (from the Greek ''katholikos'', "universal"). Catholic Church is a Christian church that is headed by the pope, the bishop of Rome, currently [[Pope Benedict XVI]]. She is one of the largest religions in the world, with more than 1 billion adherents (In the United States more than 64 million.) The Catholic Church is the oldest institution in the western world. The Pope is the successor of [[Saint Peter]].

To belong to the church one must accept as factually true the gospel of our lord [[Jesus Christ]]. ''"The chief teachings of the Catholic church are: God’s objective existence; God’s interest in individual human beings, who can enter into relations with God (through prayer); the Trinity; the divinity of Jesus; the immortality of the soul of each human being, each one being accountable at death for his or her actions in life, with the award of heaven or hell; the resurrection of the dead; the historicity of the Gospels; and the divine commission of the church. In addition the Roman Catholic Church stresses that since the members, living and dead, share in each other’s merits, the [[Virgin Mary]] and other saints and the dead in purgatory are never forgotten." '' <ref> [http://www.bartleby.com/65/ro/RomanCat.html The Columbia Encyclopedia]</ref> The presence of Christ is believed to be present in the Eucharist, the bread and wine is Jesus himself. Another essential belief is the veneration of Mary, the mother of Jesus as the Blessed Virgin Mary and veneration of the saints.

The principal sources for the essential beliefs of the Catholic Church are the Sacred Scriptures (the Bible), Sacred Tradition, and Living Magisterium of the Church.

[[Image:Cerro_de_Angeles.jpg|right|thumb|Cerro de los Angeles, Madrid, Spain.]]

== History ==

The original Christian community was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ and led by the Apostles.
St. [[Paul the Apostle]] was together with St. Peter, the most notable of Early Christian missionaries. After an initial period of persecution, Christianity was legalized in the fourth century by Constantine I. In 380, Emperor Theodosius I accepted Catholic Christianity as the official religion of the [[Roman Empire]]. During the [[Middle Ages]] the Church underwent a time of missionary activity and expansion. This Catholic Christian Church underwent in 1054 a great schism that divided the Church into a Western (Latin) branch, which has been called as the Catholic Church and an Eastern branch, which has become known as the [[Orthodox Church]]. The second schism was the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. During the First Vatican Council (1869–1870) and the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965) the Catholic Church undertook the most comprehensive reforms. She stretched relations with other Christian communities and other religions. She also issued directions for a revision of the liturgy.

==Different churches==

The term "The Catholic Church" refers to any one of several Rites, but in the United States is often used synonymously for the largest Rite, the Roman Catholic Church. Other Rites include the Byzantine, Alexandrian, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean Rites. The Eastern rites have significant differences in liturgy, history, discipline and hierarchy from the Roman Catholic Church, but still recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) and are in communion with Rome. These Eastern Rite churches are Catholic and do not belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The Eastern branches do not have a single umbrella organization. They include the Eastern Orthodox Church and a number of Eastern Catholic Churches. Despite important differences in doctrine, the Catholic Church and the Eastern churches recognize each other as part of the Catholic Church. For example, each of them accepts each others' Holy Orders (priesthood) as valid.

The [[Roman Catholic Church]] historically regarded Protestant Christianity as heretical, that is, being against Church doctrine. However, this changed in the 1960's when Pope John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council, where '''the''' '''doors of the Church were opened wide''', and Protestants referred to as '''"our separated brethren".''' This was an exciting period for Catholics and Protestants alike as moves were made to bring the separated churches back together.

[[Image:JpII.jpg|right|thumb|John Paul II]]

The Anglican Church (Episcopalian in the United States) occupies an odd situation, because it encompasses within it factions ("Low Church") that emphasize its Protestant aspects and factions ("High Church") that emphasize its Catholic aspects. Anglo-Catholics regard the Anglican church as part of the Catholic Church, and in the unbroken line of the Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern branches take a position that could be described as saying that the Anglican Church is almost but not quite Catholic. There have long been unification overtures, and Anglican priests who wish to adopt Catholic Holy Orders are often provided with an abbreviated path to that goal.

The [[Nicene Creed]], the great historical statement of Christian belief, contains the line "I [or we] believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church". The [[Apostles' Creed]] contains a similar affirmation. However, Protestants and Catholics place different interpretations on the term "Catholic" (or "catholic"). Protestants believe that it refers to the general, over-arching spiritual unity of all Christians which transcends individual churches and denominations. Catholics, on the other hand, believe that the [[Roman Catholic Church]], as the single true church founded by Christ, is the universal Catholic Church. Some prefer not to refer to their own church as the "Roman" Catholic Church, on the grounds that such formulations implicitly deny this point of doctrine.

== Saint Paul's Writings ==

St. Paul is the second most prolific contributor to the New Testament. Thirteen letters are attributed to him. The letters are written in Greek. The epistles contain the earliest account of Christian doctrine and provide information on the life of the infant Church. They are full of expositions of what Christians should believe and how they should live.

<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">

''St. Paul reminded the Christians how they should live. They should think about the things in heaven (Colossians 3:2), because they belong with Christ (Colossians 3:3-4). They should not do evil deeds (Colossians 3:5-11). Instead, they should love other people (Colossians 3:12-14). And they should serve God (Colossians 3:15-17). If we invite Jesus into our lives, we will become friends of God (Colossians 1:15-23).'' </blockquote>

St. Paul's influence on Christian thinking has been more significant than any other single New Testament author.

== Fathers ==

St. Ambrose, Bishop of Milan from 374 to 397, was one of the most illustrious Fathers and Doctors of the Church, and fitly chosen, together with St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Athanasius, to uphold the venerable Chair of the Prince of the Apostles in the tribune of St. Peter's at Rome. <ref>[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01383c.htm St. Ambrose] Catholic Encyclopedia.</ref>

==Controversy==

There has been much controversy in recent years about Catholic priests in relation to the abuse of children in their care. Cases of pedophilia and ephebophilia have both been discovered in many churches across the world<ref>http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex.htm</ref>. Many instances of abuse occurred with little or no repercussion for priests involved. In some cases, bishops were aware of the abuse but did not effectively deal with it, allowing the abusive priest to continue to remain in contact with minors.

[[Image:Virgen.jpg|right|thumb|Virgin Mary and Child]]

== See also ==

*[[Jesus Christ]]
*[[Vatican City]]
*[[Pope John Paul II]]
*[[Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer]]
*[[Dead Sea Scrolls]]

==External links==

*[http://tcrnews2.com/VaticanCouncil2.html The Reasons for the Second Vatican Council]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/vonbalthasarfathers.html The Fathers, the Scholastics, and Ourselves ]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/predestination.html Ruminating on Laughter, Predestination, Mystery ]
*[http://www.cua.edu/ The Catholic University of America] Washington, D. C.
*[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11567b.htm St. Paul] Catholic Encyclopedia.
*[http://tcrnews2.com/Marykerygma05.html Mary is not the Kerygma]

*[http://tcrnews2.com/RFK_daughter.html Kathleen Kennedy Townsend: Failing America's Faithful]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/ChristNietzscheIslam.html A Civilization Without the Influence of Jesus Christ]

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Christianity]]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-05-07T13:25:49Z

Denzinger: /* External links */

The '''Catholic Church''' is, literally, the ''Universal Church'' of [[Jesus Christ]] (from the Greek ''katholikos'', "universal"). Catholic Church is a Christian church that is headed by the pope, the bishop of Rome, currently [[Pope Benedict XVI]]. She is one of the largest religions in the world, with more than 1 billion adherents (In the United States more than 64 million.) The Catholic Church is the oldest institution in the western world. The Pope is the successor of [[Saint Peter]].

To belong to the church one must accept as factually true the gospel of our lord [[Jesus Christ]]. ''"The chief teachings of the Catholic church are: God’s objective existence; God’s interest in individual human beings, who can enter into relations with God (through prayer); the Trinity; the divinity of Jesus; the immortality of the soul of each human being, each one being accountable at death for his or her actions in life, with the award of heaven or hell; the resurrection of the dead; the historicity of the Gospels; and the divine commission of the church. In addition the Roman Catholic Church stresses that since the members, living and dead, share in each other’s merits, the [[Virgin Mary]] and other saints and the dead in purgatory are never forgotten." '' <ref> [http://www.bartleby.com/65/ro/RomanCat.html The Columbia Encyclopedia]</ref> The presence of Christ is believed to be present in the Eucharist, the bread and wine is Jesus himself. Another essential belief is the veneration of Mary, the mother of Jesus as the Blessed Virgin Mary and veneration of the saints.

The principal sources for the essential beliefs of the Catholic Church are the Sacred Scriptures (the Bible), Sacred Tradition, and Living Magisterium of the Church.

[[Image:Cerro_de_Angeles.jpg|right|thumb|Cerro de los Angeles, Madrid, Spain.]]

== History ==

The original Christian community was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ and led by the Apostles.
St. [[Paul the Apostle]] was together with St. Peter, the most notable of Early Christian missionaries. After an initial period of persecution, Christianity was legalized in the fourth century by Constantine I. In 380, Emperor Theodosius I accepted Catholic Christianity as the official religion of the [[Roman Empire]]. During the [[Middle Ages]] the Church underwent a time of missionary activity and expansion. This Catholic Christian Church underwent in 1054 a great schism that divided the Church into a Western (Latin) branch, which has been called as the Catholic Church and an Eastern branch, which has become known as the [[Orthodox Church]]. The second schism was the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. During the First Vatican Council (1869–1870) and the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965) the Catholic Church undertook the most comprehensive reforms. She stretched relations with other Christian communities and other religions. She also issued directions for a revision of the liturgy.

==Different churches==

The term "The Catholic Church" refers to any one of several Rites, but in the United States is often used synonymously for the largest Rite, the Roman Catholic Church. Other Rites include the Byzantine, Alexandrian, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean Rites. The Eastern rites have significant differences in liturgy, history, discipline and hierarchy from the Roman Catholic Church, but still recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) and are in communion with Rome. These Eastern Rite churches are Catholic and do not belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The Eastern branches do not have a single umbrella organization. They include the Eastern Orthodox Church and a number of Eastern Catholic Churches. Despite important differences in doctrine, the Catholic Church and the Eastern churches recognize each other as part of the Catholic Church. For example, each of them accepts each others' Holy Orders (priesthood) as valid.

The [[Roman Catholic Church]] historically regarded Protestant Christianity as heretical, that is, being against Church doctrine. However, this changed in the 1960's when Pope John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council, where '''the''' '''doors of the Church were opened wide''', and Protestants referred to as '''"our separated brethren".''' This was an exciting period for Catholics and Protestants alike as moves were made to bring the separated churches back together.

[[Image:JpII.jpg|right|thumb|John Paul II]]

The Anglican Church (Episcopalian in the United States) occupies an odd situation, because it encompasses within it factions ("Low Church") that emphasize its Protestant aspects and factions ("High Church") that emphasize its Catholic aspects. Anglo-Catholics regard the Anglican church as part of the Catholic Church, and in the unbroken line of the Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern branches take a position that could be described as saying that the Anglican Church is almost but not quite Catholic. There have long been unification overtures, and Anglican priests who wish to adopt Catholic Holy Orders are often provided with an abbreviated path to that goal.

The [[Nicene Creed]], the great historical statement of Christian belief, contains the line "I [or we] believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church". The [[Apostles' Creed]] contains a similar affirmation. However, Protestants and Catholics place different interpretations on the term "Catholic" (or "catholic"). Protestants believe that it refers to the general, over-arching spiritual unity of all Christians which transcends individual churches and denominations. Catholics, on the other hand, believe that the [[Roman Catholic Church]], as the single true church founded by Christ, is the universal Catholic Church. Some prefer not to refer to their own church as the "Roman" Catholic Church, on the grounds that such formulations implicitly deny this point of doctrine.

== Saint Paul's Writings ==

St. Paul is the second most prolific contributor to the New Testament. Thirteen letters are attributed to him. The letters are written in Greek. The epistles contain the earliest account of Christian doctrine and provide information on the life of the infant Church. They are full of expositions of what Christians should believe and how they should live.

<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">

''St. Paul reminded the Christians how they should live. They should think about the things in heaven (Colossians 3:2), because they belong with Christ (Colossians 3:3-4). They should not do evil deeds (Colossians 3:5-11). Instead, they should love other people (Colossians 3:12-14). And they should serve God (Colossians 3:15-17). If we invite Jesus into our lives, we will become friends of God (Colossians 1:15-23).'' </blockquote>

St. Paul's influence on Christian thinking has been more significant than any other single New Testament author.

== Fathers ==

St. Ambrose, Bishop of Milan from 374 to 397, was one of the most illustrious Fathers and Doctors of the Church, and fitly chosen, together with St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Athanasius, to uphold the venerable Chair of the Prince of the Apostles in the tribune of St. Peter's at Rome. <ref>[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01383c.htm St. Ambrose] Catholic Encyclopedia.</ref>

==Controversy==

There has been much controversy in recent years about Catholic priests in relation to the abuse of children in their care. Cases of pedophilia and ephebophilia have both been discovered in many churches across the world<ref>http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex.htm</ref>. Many instances of abuse occurred with little or no repercussion for priests involved. In some cases, bishops were aware of the abuse but did not effectively deal with it, allowing the abusive priest to continue to remain in contact with minors.

[[Image:Virgen.jpg|right|thumb|Virgin Mary and Child]]

== See also ==

*[[Jesus Christ]]
*[[Vatican City]]
*[[Pope John Paul II]]
*[[Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer]]
*[[Dead Sea Scrolls]]

==External links==

*[http://tcrnews2.com/VaticanCouncil2.html The Reasons for the Second Vatican Council]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/vonbalthasarfathers.html The Fathers, the Scholastics, and Ourselves ]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/predestination.html Ruminating on Laughter, Predestination, Mystery ]
*[http://www.cua.edu/ The Catholic University of America] Washington, D. C.
*[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11567b.htm St. Paul] Catholic Encyclopedia.
*[http://tcrnews2.com/Marykerygma05.html Mary is not the Kerygma]

*[http://tcrnews2.com/RFK_daughter.html Kathleen Kennedy Townsend: Failing America's Faithful]

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Christianity]]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-05-07T13:25:05Z

Denzinger: /* References */

The '''Catholic Church''' is, literally, the ''Universal Church'' of [[Jesus Christ]] (from the Greek ''katholikos'', "universal"). Catholic Church is a Christian church that is headed by the pope, the bishop of Rome, currently [[Pope Benedict XVI]]. She is one of the largest religions in the world, with more than 1 billion adherents (In the United States more than 64 million.) The Catholic Church is the oldest institution in the western world. The Pope is the successor of [[Saint Peter]].

To belong to the church one must accept as factually true the gospel of our lord [[Jesus Christ]]. ''"The chief teachings of the Catholic church are: God’s objective existence; God’s interest in individual human beings, who can enter into relations with God (through prayer); the Trinity; the divinity of Jesus; the immortality of the soul of each human being, each one being accountable at death for his or her actions in life, with the award of heaven or hell; the resurrection of the dead; the historicity of the Gospels; and the divine commission of the church. In addition the Roman Catholic Church stresses that since the members, living and dead, share in each other’s merits, the [[Virgin Mary]] and other saints and the dead in purgatory are never forgotten." '' <ref> [http://www.bartleby.com/65/ro/RomanCat.html The Columbia Encyclopedia]</ref> The presence of Christ is believed to be present in the Eucharist, the bread and wine is Jesus himself. Another essential belief is the veneration of Mary, the mother of Jesus as the Blessed Virgin Mary and veneration of the saints.

The principal sources for the essential beliefs of the Catholic Church are the Sacred Scriptures (the Bible), Sacred Tradition, and Living Magisterium of the Church.

[[Image:Cerro_de_Angeles.jpg|right|thumb|Cerro de los Angeles, Madrid, Spain.]]

== History ==

The original Christian community was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ and led by the Apostles.
St. [[Paul the Apostle]] was together with St. Peter, the most notable of Early Christian missionaries. After an initial period of persecution, Christianity was legalized in the fourth century by Constantine I. In 380, Emperor Theodosius I accepted Catholic Christianity as the official religion of the [[Roman Empire]]. During the [[Middle Ages]] the Church underwent a time of missionary activity and expansion. This Catholic Christian Church underwent in 1054 a great schism that divided the Church into a Western (Latin) branch, which has been called as the Catholic Church and an Eastern branch, which has become known as the [[Orthodox Church]]. The second schism was the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. During the First Vatican Council (1869–1870) and the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965) the Catholic Church undertook the most comprehensive reforms. She stretched relations with other Christian communities and other religions. She also issued directions for a revision of the liturgy.

==Different churches==

The term "The Catholic Church" refers to any one of several Rites, but in the United States is often used synonymously for the largest Rite, the Roman Catholic Church. Other Rites include the Byzantine, Alexandrian, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean Rites. The Eastern rites have significant differences in liturgy, history, discipline and hierarchy from the Roman Catholic Church, but still recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) and are in communion with Rome. These Eastern Rite churches are Catholic and do not belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The Eastern branches do not have a single umbrella organization. They include the Eastern Orthodox Church and a number of Eastern Catholic Churches. Despite important differences in doctrine, the Catholic Church and the Eastern churches recognize each other as part of the Catholic Church. For example, each of them accepts each others' Holy Orders (priesthood) as valid.

The [[Roman Catholic Church]] historically regarded Protestant Christianity as heretical, that is, being against Church doctrine. However, this changed in the 1960's when Pope John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council, where '''the''' '''doors of the Church were opened wide''', and Protestants referred to as '''"our separated brethren".''' This was an exciting period for Catholics and Protestants alike as moves were made to bring the separated churches back together.

[[Image:JpII.jpg|right|thumb|John Paul II]]

The Anglican Church (Episcopalian in the United States) occupies an odd situation, because it encompasses within it factions ("Low Church") that emphasize its Protestant aspects and factions ("High Church") that emphasize its Catholic aspects. Anglo-Catholics regard the Anglican church as part of the Catholic Church, and in the unbroken line of the Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern branches take a position that could be described as saying that the Anglican Church is almost but not quite Catholic. There have long been unification overtures, and Anglican priests who wish to adopt Catholic Holy Orders are often provided with an abbreviated path to that goal.

The [[Nicene Creed]], the great historical statement of Christian belief, contains the line "I [or we] believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church". The [[Apostles' Creed]] contains a similar affirmation. However, Protestants and Catholics place different interpretations on the term "Catholic" (or "catholic"). Protestants believe that it refers to the general, over-arching spiritual unity of all Christians which transcends individual churches and denominations. Catholics, on the other hand, believe that the [[Roman Catholic Church]], as the single true church founded by Christ, is the universal Catholic Church. Some prefer not to refer to their own church as the "Roman" Catholic Church, on the grounds that such formulations implicitly deny this point of doctrine.

== Saint Paul's Writings ==

St. Paul is the second most prolific contributor to the New Testament. Thirteen letters are attributed to him. The letters are written in Greek. The epistles contain the earliest account of Christian doctrine and provide information on the life of the infant Church. They are full of expositions of what Christians should believe and how they should live.

<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">

''St. Paul reminded the Christians how they should live. They should think about the things in heaven (Colossians 3:2), because they belong with Christ (Colossians 3:3-4). They should not do evil deeds (Colossians 3:5-11). Instead, they should love other people (Colossians 3:12-14). And they should serve God (Colossians 3:15-17). If we invite Jesus into our lives, we will become friends of God (Colossians 1:15-23).'' </blockquote>

St. Paul's influence on Christian thinking has been more significant than any other single New Testament author.

== Fathers ==

St. Ambrose, Bishop of Milan from 374 to 397, was one of the most illustrious Fathers and Doctors of the Church, and fitly chosen, together with St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Athanasius, to uphold the venerable Chair of the Prince of the Apostles in the tribune of St. Peter's at Rome. <ref>[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01383c.htm St. Ambrose] Catholic Encyclopedia.</ref>

==Controversy==

There has been much controversy in recent years about Catholic priests in relation to the abuse of children in their care. Cases of pedophilia and ephebophilia have both been discovered in many churches across the world<ref>http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex.htm</ref>. Many instances of abuse occurred with little or no repercussion for priests involved. In some cases, bishops were aware of the abuse but did not effectively deal with it, allowing the abusive priest to continue to remain in contact with minors.

[[Image:Virgen.jpg|right|thumb|Virgin Mary and Child]]

== See also ==

*[[Jesus Christ]]
*[[Vatican City]]
*[[Pope John Paul II]]
*[[Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer]]
*[[Dead Sea Scrolls]]

==External links==

*[http://tcrnews2.com/VaticanCouncil2.html The Reasons for the Second Vatican Council]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/vonbalthasarfathers.html The Fathers, the Scholastics, and Ourselves ]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/predestination.html Ruminating on Laughter, Predestination, Mystery ]
*[http://www.cua.edu/ The Catholic University of America] Washington, D. C.
*[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11567b.htm St. Paul] Catholic Encyclopedia.

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Christianity]]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-05-07T13:24:33Z

Denzinger: /* References */

The '''Catholic Church''' is, literally, the ''Universal Church'' of [[Jesus Christ]] (from the Greek ''katholikos'', "universal"). Catholic Church is a Christian church that is headed by the pope, the bishop of Rome, currently [[Pope Benedict XVI]]. She is one of the largest religions in the world, with more than 1 billion adherents (In the United States more than 64 million.) The Catholic Church is the oldest institution in the western world. The Pope is the successor of [[Saint Peter]].

To belong to the church one must accept as factually true the gospel of our lord [[Jesus Christ]]. ''"The chief teachings of the Catholic church are: God’s objective existence; God’s interest in individual human beings, who can enter into relations with God (through prayer); the Trinity; the divinity of Jesus; the immortality of the soul of each human being, each one being accountable at death for his or her actions in life, with the award of heaven or hell; the resurrection of the dead; the historicity of the Gospels; and the divine commission of the church. In addition the Roman Catholic Church stresses that since the members, living and dead, share in each other’s merits, the [[Virgin Mary]] and other saints and the dead in purgatory are never forgotten." '' <ref> [http://www.bartleby.com/65/ro/RomanCat.html The Columbia Encyclopedia]</ref> The presence of Christ is believed to be present in the Eucharist, the bread and wine is Jesus himself. Another essential belief is the veneration of Mary, the mother of Jesus as the Blessed Virgin Mary and veneration of the saints.

The principal sources for the essential beliefs of the Catholic Church are the Sacred Scriptures (the Bible), Sacred Tradition, and Living Magisterium of the Church.

[[Image:Cerro_de_Angeles.jpg|right|thumb|Cerro de los Angeles, Madrid, Spain.]]

== History ==

The original Christian community was founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ and led by the Apostles.
St. [[Paul the Apostle]] was together with St. Peter, the most notable of Early Christian missionaries. After an initial period of persecution, Christianity was legalized in the fourth century by Constantine I. In 380, Emperor Theodosius I accepted Catholic Christianity as the official religion of the [[Roman Empire]]. During the [[Middle Ages]] the Church underwent a time of missionary activity and expansion. This Catholic Christian Church underwent in 1054 a great schism that divided the Church into a Western (Latin) branch, which has been called as the Catholic Church and an Eastern branch, which has become known as the [[Orthodox Church]]. The second schism was the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. During the First Vatican Council (1869–1870) and the Second Vatican Council (1962–1965) the Catholic Church undertook the most comprehensive reforms. She stretched relations with other Christian communities and other religions. She also issued directions for a revision of the liturgy.

==Different churches==

The term "The Catholic Church" refers to any one of several Rites, but in the United States is often used synonymously for the largest Rite, the Roman Catholic Church. Other Rites include the Byzantine, Alexandrian, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean Rites. The Eastern rites have significant differences in liturgy, history, discipline and hierarchy from the Roman Catholic Church, but still recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome (the Pope) and are in communion with Rome. These Eastern Rite churches are Catholic and do not belong to the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The Eastern branches do not have a single umbrella organization. They include the Eastern Orthodox Church and a number of Eastern Catholic Churches. Despite important differences in doctrine, the Catholic Church and the Eastern churches recognize each other as part of the Catholic Church. For example, each of them accepts each others' Holy Orders (priesthood) as valid.

The [[Roman Catholic Church]] historically regarded Protestant Christianity as heretical, that is, being against Church doctrine. However, this changed in the 1960's when Pope John XXIII called the Second Vatican Council, where '''the''' '''doors of the Church were opened wide''', and Protestants referred to as '''"our separated brethren".''' This was an exciting period for Catholics and Protestants alike as moves were made to bring the separated churches back together.

[[Image:JpII.jpg|right|thumb|John Paul II]]

The Anglican Church (Episcopalian in the United States) occupies an odd situation, because it encompasses within it factions ("Low Church") that emphasize its Protestant aspects and factions ("High Church") that emphasize its Catholic aspects. Anglo-Catholics regard the Anglican church as part of the Catholic Church, and in the unbroken line of the Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern branches take a position that could be described as saying that the Anglican Church is almost but not quite Catholic. There have long been unification overtures, and Anglican priests who wish to adopt Catholic Holy Orders are often provided with an abbreviated path to that goal.

The [[Nicene Creed]], the great historical statement of Christian belief, contains the line "I [or we] believe in one holy, catholic and apostolic church". The [[Apostles' Creed]] contains a similar affirmation. However, Protestants and Catholics place different interpretations on the term "Catholic" (or "catholic"). Protestants believe that it refers to the general, over-arching spiritual unity of all Christians which transcends individual churches and denominations. Catholics, on the other hand, believe that the [[Roman Catholic Church]], as the single true church founded by Christ, is the universal Catholic Church. Some prefer not to refer to their own church as the "Roman" Catholic Church, on the grounds that such formulations implicitly deny this point of doctrine.

== Saint Paul's Writings ==

St. Paul is the second most prolific contributor to the New Testament. Thirteen letters are attributed to him. The letters are written in Greek. The epistles contain the earliest account of Christian doctrine and provide information on the life of the infant Church. They are full of expositions of what Christians should believe and how they should live.

<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">

''St. Paul reminded the Christians how they should live. They should think about the things in heaven (Colossians 3:2), because they belong with Christ (Colossians 3:3-4). They should not do evil deeds (Colossians 3:5-11). Instead, they should love other people (Colossians 3:12-14). And they should serve God (Colossians 3:15-17). If we invite Jesus into our lives, we will become friends of God (Colossians 1:15-23).'' </blockquote>

St. Paul's influence on Christian thinking has been more significant than any other single New Testament author.

== Fathers ==

St. Ambrose, Bishop of Milan from 374 to 397, was one of the most illustrious Fathers and Doctors of the Church, and fitly chosen, together with St. Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Athanasius, to uphold the venerable Chair of the Prince of the Apostles in the tribune of St. Peter's at Rome. <ref>[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01383c.htm St. Ambrose] Catholic Encyclopedia.</ref>

==Controversy==

There has been much controversy in recent years about Catholic priests in relation to the abuse of children in their care. Cases of pedophilia and ephebophilia have both been discovered in many churches across the world<ref>http://www.religioustolerance.org/clergy_sex.htm</ref>. Many instances of abuse occurred with little or no repercussion for priests involved. In some cases, bishops were aware of the abuse but did not effectively deal with it, allowing the abusive priest to continue to remain in contact with minors.

[[Image:Virgen.jpg|right|thumb|Virgin Mary and Child]]

== See also ==

*[[Jesus Christ]]
*[[Vatican City]]
*[[Pope John Paul II]]
*[[Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer]]
*[[Dead Sea Scrolls]]

==External links==

*[http://tcrnews2.com/VaticanCouncil2.html The Reasons for the Second Vatican Council]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/vonbalthasarfathers.html The Fathers, the Scholastics, and Ourselves ]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/predestination.html Ruminating on Laughter, Predestination, Mystery ]
*[http://www.cua.edu/ The Catholic University of America] Washington, D. C.
*[http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11567b.htm St. Paul] Catholic Encyclopedia.

==References==

<references/>

[[Category:Christianity]]

[http://tcrnews2.com/Marykerygma05.html Mary is not the Kerygma]

[http://tcrnews2.com/RFK_daughter.html Kathleen Kennedy Townsend: Failing America's Faithful]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-03-23T13:29:43Z

Denzinger:

Catholic means "universal" and the phrase '''Catholic Church''' refers to the single universal Christian church founded by Peter.

The term "The Catholic church" refers to any one of several Rites, but in the United States is often used synonymously for the largest Rite, the [[Roman Catholic Church]]. Other Rites include the Byzantine, Alexandrian, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite, and Chaldean Rites. The Eastern rites have significant differences in liturgy, history, discipline and hierarchy from the Roman Catholic Church, but still recognize the primacy of the Bishop of Rome (the [[Pope]]) and are in communion with Rome.

These Eastern Rite churches are Catholic and do not belong to the [[Eastern Orthodox Church]] that split from the Catholic Church during the Great Schism of 1054.

"Catholic" can be opposed to "Protestant." Protestants regard themselves as Christians, but Catholics do not regard Protestants as authentically within the church established by Peter, and do not regard Protestant ministers as being validly ordained. Protestants would of course challenge this, but nevertheless agree that there is a wide separation between Protestant denominations and the churches that refer to themselves as "Catholic."

The Anglican Church (Episcopalian in the United States) occupies an odd situation, because it encompasses within it factions ("Low Church") that emphasize its Protestant aspects and factions ("High Church") that emphasize its Catholic aspects. Anglo-Catholics regard the Anglican church as part of the Catholic Church, and in the unbroken line of the Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern branches take a position that could be described as saying that the Anglican Church is almost but not quite Catholic. There have long been unification overtures, and Anglican priests who wish to adopt Catholic Holy Orders are often provided with an abbreviated path to that goal.

_______________________

*[http://tcrnews2.com/VaticanCouncil2.html The Reasons for the Second Vatican Council]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/vonbalthasarfathers.html The Fathers, the Scholastics, and Ourselves ]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/predestination.html Ruminating on Laughter, Predestination, Mystery ]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-03-23T13:27:29Z

Denzinger:

Friedrich Nietzsche

2007-03-20T22:27:30Z

Denzinger:

'''Friedrich Nietzsche''' (1844-1900) was a [[Germany|German]] [[atheism|atheist]] philosopher whose work set a foundation the [[existentialism|existentialist]] movement of the 1900's.<ref>[http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche/ Stanford's Biography on Nietzsche]</ref> Nietzsche was critical of religion in general, though especially Christianity, which he described as the "religion of pity."<ref>[http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Friedrich_Nietzsche/ Nietzsche Quotations]</ref> Nietzsche is famous for his statement that “God is dead.” Nietzsche instead urged a new kind of ethical development that would go beyond "Good" and "Evil" as such, leading to a new category of being, the "overman." Nietzsche suffered a mental collapse in 1889, and spent the last ten years of his life unable to care for himself. During this time, his sister Elizabeth Förster-Nietzsche took over his affairs, and worked to falsify and re-edit his writings in order to support her virulent Anti-Semitism (a view which Nietzsche consistently abhorred, and often mocked, during his lifetime). It was her distorted version of culled and mis-quoted statements which later provided an intllectual fig-leaf for the Nazi regime.

Nietzsche's father Carl Ludwig Nietzsche, was a [[Lutheran]] pastor.

In his first Papal Encyclical, "Deus Caritas Est" (God is Charity/Love) [[Pope Benedict XVI]] quotes from Nietzche's ''Beyond Good and Evil'', taking very seriously Nietzsche's claim that the Church has poisoned ''eros'' (love) with dogma, and responding to it.

==References==
*[http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche/ Entry on Nietzsche from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy]
*[http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nietzsche-moral-political/ Entry on Nietzsche's Moral and Political Philosophy from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy]
*[http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=816224 "The Case for Nietzschean Moral Psychology"]
* [http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html#_ftnref1 ''Deus Caritas Est'', from the Vatican website]
*[http://tcrnews2.com/ChristNietzscheIslam.html Nietzsche: Towards Total Eclipse]

Friedrich Nietzsche

2007-03-20T22:26:10Z

Denzinger:

Predestination

2007-03-20T22:16:24Z

Denzinger:

[[Predestination]], also known as divine election, is a theological doctrine that holds that God chooses who He will give saving faith to. Contrary to popular belief, predestination was not first proposed by [[John Calvin]], but can be traced back to St. Augustine (354-430) and other Church Fathers. Proponents say that the doctrine can be traced back to the writings of the Apostles Peter and Paul, as well as passages in the Gospels, such as John 17.

Central to predestination is the belief that God is sovereign over everything that He creates, including the final end of all men. There are two formulations of predestination, predestination proper and "double" predestination. In the former view, God elects who He will give faith to (and subsequently be saved), and leaves the rest to receive justice for their rebellion against God. Double predestination also affirms that God elects who will come to saving faith, but also holds that God also elects those who will be judged for their sins and thereby condemned to Hell. In the first position, God actively chooses who he will save and is passive towards the reprobate, in the second position, God actively chooses who will be counted among the righteous and who will be among the reprobate.

Related to the issue of predestination is the role of the human will in salvation. Some critics of predestination believe that it is incomensurable with the belief that man has libertarian free will. Proponents of predestination typically agree that the views do not work together, and propose an alternate description of free will. The human will, because of Original Sin, is corrupted and fallen. Often Ephesians 2:1, which states that men are "dead in their trespasses," is cited in justification of this. The result is that the will is incapable of choosing to love God over things below. This does not remove the ability of human beings to choose between two options, but it does remove one option, the choice to love God or not, from the kinds of choices that humans can make. The will can only choose to love God if it receives the grace of God. According to the doctrine of predestination, God chooses those to whom He will give the grace to believe in, and love, him. Thus, when a person chooses to place his faith in Christ, he has recieved the grace of God and is numbered among God's elect. This understanding of predestination excludes the possibility that someone could put their faith in Christ and not be saved. The fact that one does believe that Christ died for his sins is sufficient evidence for his election.

Predestination is also called ''unconditional election,'' the U in the ''TULIP'' mnemonic for five of the doctrines affirmed at the Synod of Dort (1619), which have now come to be called the "Five Points of Calvinism."

People who believe in predestination will sometimes cite Ephesians 2:8-9 in support of their beliefs:
<blockquote>For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (KJV)</blockquote> Several verses in Romans 8 are also used to support this view.

_______________________

*[http://tcrnews2.com/predestination.html Ruminating on Laughter and Predestination]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-03-20T22:13:55Z

Denzinger:

Catholic means "universal" and the phrase '''Catholic Church''' refers to the single universal Christian church founded by Peter.

In the United States, the phrase "Catholic church" is often a shortened name for the [[Roman Catholic church]], overwhelmingly the largest of the denominations calling themselves "Catholic." The Roman Catholic Church is, however, only the Western branch of the Catholic Church, which separated from the Eastern branches in the [[Great Schism]]. The Eastern branches do not have a single umbrella organization. They include the Eastern Orthodox Church and a number of Eastern Catholic Churches.

Despite important differences in doctrine, the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern churches recognize each other as part of the Catholic Church. For example, each of them accepts each others' Holy Orders (priesthood) as valid.

"Catholic" can be opposed to "Protestant." Protestants regard themselves as Christians, but Catholics do not regard Protestants as authentically within the church established by Peter, and do not regard Protestant ministers as being validly ordained. Protestants would of course challenge this, but nevertheless agree that there is a wide separation between Protestant denominations and the churches that refer to themselves as "Catholic."

The Anglican Church (Episcopalian in the United States) occupies an odd situation, because it encompasses within it factions ("Low Church") that emphasize its Protestant aspects and factions ("High Church") that emphasize its Catholic aspects. Anglo-Catholics regard the Anglican church as part of the Catholic Church, and in the unbroken line of the Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern branches take a position that could be described as saying that the Anglican Church is almost but not quite Catholic. There have long been unification overtures, and Anglican priests who wish to adopt Catholic Holy Orders are often provided with an abbreviated path to that goal.

_______________________

*[http://tcrnews2.com/VaticanCouncil2.html The Reasons for the Second Vatican Council]

Debate:Did Joan of Arc truly hear voices?

2007-03-20T22:10:19Z

Denzinger:

Yes, I believe so as given:

*She didn't have any holes in her personality so schizophrenia isn't very likely.
*She was very practical (which was something missing from the nobility and The Church at this time period) and never had any flaws in her accounts they all fit perfectly into another, so I don't believe she was lying.
*She didn't have one hallucination after another once, sometimes three times, a day which would be very unlikely. That would still not explain how these voices simply stopped after she denied to have them.

The only logical conclusion is that she did hear voices from The Archangel Michael delivering God's message.

--[[User:Working for Him|Working for Him]] 21:14, 17 February 2007 (EST)

I'm not very educated on the subject of Joan of Arc; did she claim that the voices came from Michael? If not, I see no reason to assume they did. They might have come from a demon or something (just another point of view...). At any rate, it seems that she really did hear voices one way or another. --[[User:BenjaminS|BenjaminS]] 01:11, 18 February 2007 (EST)

: Very, very interesting posting. But why would the Archangel take sides in the war concerning Joan of Arc? And why would divine voices drive her to lose and be viciously murdered? Did Jesus ever hear voices in this manner?

: I don't have a clear opinion about this but do have these questions. (Be sure to mark this page as "Watched" so you can be alerted when it changes.)--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:48, 17 February 2007 (EST)

:I don't understand the reasoning here as to why schizophrenia "isn't very likely." [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 22:06, 17 February 2007 (EST)

::I think only severely ill schizophrenics hear voices, and Joan of Arc seemed far too productive to be suffering from a debilitating disease. I'm not an expert on this issue, but find it fascinating.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:32, 17 February 2007 (EST)

:::John Nash was "really crazy." Specifically, he experienced auditory, visual, and command hallucinations. He won a Nobel Prize in economics. (Unfortunately the excellent movie, ''A Beautiful Mind,'' while screenwritten by a man with great knowledge of schizophrenia and a desire to tell the "inner truth" of Nash's life, wrote what was basically a work of fiction about a John-Nash-like character... and I read the equally excellent biography of the same name before the movie and the movie has already blotted out most of the specific details I read in the book...) [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 13:39, 18 February 2007 (EST)

::: It isn't clear to me what we mean by "truly hear" - I presume that means hear voices which were the result of external entities- not that the auditory sections of brains of schizophrenics do in fact light up under fMRI when they are hearing voices. Expanding on Dpb's comment- another relevant example would be Srinivasa Ramanujan an Indian mathematician who claimed that many of his results came from dreams in which he was visited by various hindu deities. I would point out that if one compares Joan of Arc to Ramanujan, there is far more evidence supporting Ramanujan's claims than Joan of Arc's; Ramanujan's results were generally correct (I'm not going to go into specifics because the details are quite complicated, but as far as I am aware, everytime Ramanujan specifcally credited a result to some form of divine revelation, it turned out to be correct). So we have one person making essentially testable claims and the other one not doing so. Now, I don't think anyone here wants to conclude that Ramanujan was getting actual revelations, a fortiori, neither was Joan of Arc. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 14:38, 18 February 2007 (EST)

I don't think we have any way to tell. There are 3 options,
# She was crazy. This is hard to figure out at this point.
# She was Lying. Impossible to tell
# She did hear voices. Also Impossible to tell.
--[[User:TimSvendsen|TimSvendsen]] 23:42, 17 February 2007 (EST)

Option #1 seems implausible to me. Really crazy people don't do great things like winning battles. Option #2 is a clever suggestion. I don't know how to rule it out, although I don't see why someone would lie. Non-believers claim the Apostles lied about the Resurrection. But why would someone lie to be put to death, as Joan of Arc and the Apostles were?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:55, 17 February 2007 (EST)

Option #1 is implausible simply because a crazy person would probably not have been capable of what she accomplished-- craziness is usually not an asset!

Option #2 is implausible for the reason stated by Aschlafly above-- she wouldn't have lied to get herself killed.

OPtion #3 seems to be the most logical.

:: This is just a variant of the classic trilemma about Jesus (Lord, Liar or Lunatic). Now, it isn't as fallacious as in the Jesus case (there are probably 3 or 4 problems in the Jesus case that don't apply here(very OT, so I'm not going to go into that)) and it isn't as much attempting to take advantage of cultueral reverance as the classic trilemma. However, it is still just as weak- both Dpb and I have given examples of essentially crazy people who were able to do that sort of thing and as I pointed out, if anything, the evidence supporting Ramanujan is far stronger than that for Joan of Arc. Now, I don't think anyone here is going to run off and become Hindu... (incidentally, #2 isn't as implausible as it seems, people often get caught up in their lies, and may very well believe in a cause enough to lie for it and then die for it). [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 23:47, 18 February 2007 (EST)

:::O goodness... I'm trying to remember... wasn't there was a terrible case, one of the famous Victorian "fasting girls" that claimed not to require any nourishment... they lived off the air, or something. Many of them were exposed as cheating in some way. But there was, I think, one of them that agreed to be put under conditions where cheating was difficult (no visits from family members or something like that) and starved to death rather than admit to a lie.

:::Click click: yes, [http://www.hutch.demon.co.uk/fasting_girl.htm]. Search on "Sarah Jacob" in that article. Or google on [http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=sarah+jacob+welsh+fasting+girl&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 Sarah Jacob Welsh fasting girl]. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 05:54, 19 February 2007 (EST)

There is a great book about [[Joan of Arc]] by [[Mark Twain]]. I beleive she did actually hear voices. If she was lying, would she go to the point of death because she was lying? Then that would be saying she was lying AND she was crazy. There were many investigations made by the [[Vatican]] and the Pope of the time (I cant remeber his name) and found that what she spoke was true, therefore canonizing her and proclaimed a Saint and patron of [[France]]. Now you should read more on this if you are intrested. [http://http://www.amazon.com/Joan-Arc-Mark-Twain/dp/0898702682/sr=1-2/qid=1171823431/ref=pd_bbs_2/104-2143299-8371952?ie=UTF8&s=books Joan of Arc by Mark Twain] --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 13:33, 18 February 2007 (EST)

*When the Church canonized her, did they make any judgement on the reality of her voices? I.e. does the Catholic Church take a position on this point? Not a rhetorical question, I haven't studied it and have no idea. (Most of what I "know" about Joan of Arc is from Shaw's play, not exactly a reliable source...) [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 15:23, 18 February 2007 (EST)

:: I don't know the answer to Dpbsmith's question, but it seems to me that canonization would implicitly require a determination that the person was not lying, and not crazy. That said, I thought the Catholic Church should have considered canonizing [[Terri Schiavo]], but I found resistance by some to the suggestion of canonizing someone in her state. I don't see any reason not to.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:04, 18 February 2007 (EST)

::: Um, what? Schiavo wouldn't meet the basic standards for canonization. Among other problems, there is the serious theological issue that she didn't ''do'' anything but was essentially passive in the entire matter. (And incidentally, it is hard to argue that under current Catholic theology continuing to feed her was at all required or even good). Finally, canonization requires the reporting of miracles related to the individual in question. No miracles related to Schiavo have occurred. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 19:02, 18 February 2007 (EST)

The [[Catholic Church]] believes that she did hear voices. I have read many books and she is one of my favorite saints. Most know her because she fought the British in the [[Hundred Years War]] and her burning at the stake for heresy and witchcraft; condemn to death by [[Pierre Cauchon]] Bishop of Beauvais. He was a very bad bishop as most know and was actually forgiven by Joan and her mother. But i do believe that she did hear voices. --[[User:Will N.|Will N.]] 18:16, 18 February 2007 (EST)

==George Bernard Shaw's take==
For what it's worth:

:Joan's voices and visions have played many tricks with her reputation. They have been held to prove that she was mad, that she was a liar and impostor, that she was a sorceress (she was burned for this), and finally that she was a saint. They do not prove any of these things; but the variety of the conclusions reached shew how little our matter-of-fact historians know about other people's minds, or even about their own. ... the seers of visions and the hearers of revelations are not always criminals. The inspirations and intuitions and unconsciously reasoned conclusions of genius sometimes assume similar illusions. Socrates, Luther, Swedenborg, Blake saw visions and heard voices just as Saint Francis and Saint Joan did. If Newton's imagination had been of the same vividly dramatic kind he might have seen the ghost of Pythagoras walk into the orchard and explain why the apples were falling. Such an illusion would have invalidated neither the theory of gravitation nor Newton's general sanity. What is more, the visionary method of making the discovery would not be a whit more miraculous than the normal method. The test of sanity is not the normality of the method but the reasonableness of the discovery. If Newton had been informed by Pythagoras that the moon was made of green cheese, then Newton would have been locked up. Gravitation, being a reasoned hypothesis which fitted remarkably well into the Copernican version of the observed physical facts of the universe, established Newton's reputation for extraordinary intelligence, and would have done so no matter how fantastically he had arrived at it.

:In the same way Joan must be judged a sane woman in spite of her voices because they never gave her any advice that might not have come to her from her mother wit exactly as gravitation came to Newton....

[[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 19:17, 18 February 2007 (EST)

*[[http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200811h.html Saint Joan], Project Gutenberg of Australia text.
*[http://tcrnews2.com/JoanofArc.html St. Joan of Arc, Private Revelations and War]

Roman Catholic Church

2007-03-20T22:08:06Z

Denzinger:

Catholic means "universal" and the phrase '''Catholic Church''' refers to the single universal Christian church founded by Peter.

In the United States, the phrase "Catholic church" is often a shortened name for the [[Roman Catholic church]], overwhelmingly the largest of the denominations calling themselves "Catholic." The Roman Catholic Church is, however, only the Western branch of the Catholic Church, which separated from the Eastern branches in the [[Great Schism]]. The Eastern branches do not have a single umbrella organization. They include the Eastern Orthodox Church and a number of Eastern Catholic Churches.

Despite important differences in doctrine, the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern churches recognize each other as part of the Catholic Church. For example, each of them accepts each others' Holy Orders (priesthood) as valid.

"Catholic" can be opposed to "Protestant." Protestants regard themselves as Christians, but Catholics do not regard Protestants as authentically within the church established by Peter, and do not regard Protestant ministers as being validly ordained. Protestants would of course challenge this, but nevertheless agree that there is a wide separation between Protestant denominations and the churches that refer to themselves as "Catholic."

The Anglican Church (Episcopalian in the United States) occupies an odd situation, because it encompasses within it factions ("Low Church") that emphasize its Protestant aspects and factions ("High Church") that emphasize its Catholic aspects. Anglo-Catholics regard the Anglican church as part of the Catholic Church, and in the unbroken line of the Apostolic Succession. The Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern branches take a position that could be described as saying that the Anglican Church is almost but not quite Catholic. There have long been unification overtures, and Anglican priests who wish to adopt Catholic Holy Orders are often provided with an abbreviated path to that goal.

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