Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Orthodox Church

2008-06-22T22:01:05Z

Dchall1: /* Proposed changes */ re to Learn together

==Proposed changes==
Now that the article is unlocked, I'd like to discuss some proposed changes. [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Orthodox_Church&diff=449494&oldid=449473 This diff], reverted by [[user:Learn together]], contains highly emotional language and a one-sided (Serbian) view of the conflict. In my view, my edits do nothing to diminish the crimes committed by Kosovar rebels, but simply point out that Serbs are not the only victims of these wars. I have sources for my edits, so I'm not sure what the problem is. If there is no objection in the next couple of days, I will return my information, with additional sources. [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 23:21, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:You did use the talk page, and that is admirable, but the information is still unacceptable. Your claims do not match your sources, and leave out other information that your sources do provide. This article is about the Orthodox Church. It will remain that way as much as possible without attempting to malign the institution. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:14, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
::I don't see that you have added any sources supporting your revision. Besides, I don't think it's fair to claim that reporting facts is the same as maligning an institution. There is an article on the Inquisition, correct? [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 20:22, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
:::No, I used your source. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 01:15, 18 June 2008 (EDT)
::::You used one source and discarded the rest. And you still haven't answered my question - where is the rule that says we refrain from reporting verified sourced facts that might be inconvenient to the subject of our articles? [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 22:24, 21 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::I would suggest writing about what the Serbian Orthodox Church is - its founding, its history, and what role it has today. Trying to claim they said to attack NATO troops, when they did not, will only lead to getting you blocked for ongoing disturbance. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 04:04, 22 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::They did not attack, or they did not encourage others to attack? There's a big difference between violence and incitement to violence. Neither I nor my sources claimed that they perpetrated any attacks, only that the incitement was there. I am trying to write about its role today, and I don't see how talk page discussion can be considered "ongoing disturbance" [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 18:01, 22 June 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Orthodox Church

2008-06-22T02:24:40Z

Dchall1: /* Proposed changes */ re to Learn together

Talk:Barack Hussein Obama

2008-06-18T00:29:53Z

Dchall1: /* Why Wouldn't he Change his Name? */ reply

Archives:
[[/archive1|1]]
[[/archive2|2]]

==False Citation==

In the first paragraph of the article, it says "Obama falsely claimed that he was a constitutional law professor, when in actuality he merely held the title of "Senior Lecturer." when according to the source cited: "http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama/cv.html" it says he is. When I edited it to say the truth according to the website, it was reverted. Why?

I have edited it again. I understand that this website is supposed to have a conservative twist, but unless conservatism is about spreading lies, then it shouldn't do so.

== No citation ==

"after liberals obtained the release of confidential and personally embarrassing divorce records of his opponent"

Where is the source that supports "liberals" obtained the release of any information? The reality is that both Ryan and his wife authorized the court to release the documents. They did so in response not only to requests by the news media but also by requests from his opponents in the GOP primary.

: No, the sensitive and highly confidential information was ordered to be released by a judge upon the request of a newspaper supporting [[Barack Obama]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:51, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

:: If you are accurate then you should have no problem finding a source to cite in order to back it up. Is this an encyclopedia or not?

== Why lead with the criticisms? ==

This article should certainly include the criticisms and his misrepresentations, but why are they at the top of the article? [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:04, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Sad. No responses at all. The people conservapedia likes will get decent articles, those that it dislikes will lead with critcism. Hm, sounds like bias to me. Oh well. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 10:43, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

: The response is obvious: good entries lead with the most informative material, just as newspaper articles and good encyclopedias do. We don't fall for the Wikipedia trick of [[placement bias]], where it leads with [[liberal fluff]] and buries or omits informative truth.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:54, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

: LOL! [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 07:41, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
::Yesaliberal indeed. Where reason fails, resort to infantile mockery. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 07:48, 16 June 2008 (EDT)
:: Point taken. As I said, the criticisms and his misrepresentations should be included by all means. I'm a firm believer in the "warts and all principle." It's the differences between the layouts of the articles of say Obama and G.W. Bush which introduce the bias that you accuse Wikipedia of. Wouldn't it be unbiased to include criticisms of Bush at the same relative position as Obama, such as the WMDs issue in Iraq? Surely war criticism must rank at least as highly as the "57" issue mentioned in Obama's article, particularly since this is perhaps a case of mis-speaking on Obama's part. Bush is almost legendary for his oratory stumbling. [[User:Yesaliberal|Yesaliberal]] 15:01, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

== Nomination timing ==

Obama hasn't won the nomination until Hillary concedes, or when the delegates vote. The timing is not determined by the press.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:14, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Then how is McCain the nominee when the delegates haven't been voted and Ron Paul hasn't conceded? Technically both candidates are the presumptive nominee. And even the [http://www.democrats.org DNC's website] has him listed on the front page as the nominee. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 21:17, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

: That's a silly appeal to consistency. Ron Paul is nowhere near John McCain in popular vote or delegate tallies. In contrast, Hillary Clinton won the popular vote and is close in delegate count.

: The odds are overwhelming that Obama will win the nomination. But it's error to claim he's already won it when his close rival has not conceded.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:22, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Then it's an error that not only have all the major news organizations made, but the DNC website as well. To mollify your criticisms, I have added the technicality that the nomination becomes official upon Clinton's concession or at the nominating convention. Of course, the DNC website announcing he's the nominee makes the point a little less important, but facts are facts and have been noted accordingly on the entry. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 21:25, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::: Jareddr, [[conservatives]] don't worship the media as liberals do. The major news organizations have all been wrong about many things, and will continue to make errors or intentional mistakes. They don't decide the outcome of elections. You might as well cite what all your classmates or co-workers think if you're going to cite the media as an authority.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:27, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::: How about citing the official party website as the authority? Because the DNC said he's the nominee and yet your response didn't touch on that part. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 21:40, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::: I left it in about the DNC. You're right to cite it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:47, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

:::: Classmates and media as equal in authority - can we get that posted as an official policy somewhere? [[User:Wandering|Wandering]] 21:36, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

::::: Maybe I was too hasty in my remarks ... because that comparison gives the media too much credit! The media is probably more biased, politically and for financial reasons, than classmates are.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:47, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Association with Black supremacists ==

I think Obama's documented association and, indeed support, of Black supremacists, such as Jeremiah Wright and Louis Farrakhan, is deserving of a section in his article.

He refused, on TV, to denounce or reject Louis Farrakhan (a man who publically said "White people are potential humans, they haven't evolved yet".

[[User:Alfred123|Alfred]]

:I saw that debate, and I think he did "reject and denounce" Farrakhan's endorsement, but only after being badgered by Mrs. Bill Clinton. [[User:Darkknight|Darkknight]] 17:08, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

== Switching the two pictures' placement ==

Would'nt it be better to have the composite- type picture at the top of the article, as this article is about him and the current picture presents him with other people? I understand that the intention of this site is to showcase issues from a conservative point of view, but does it have to be done at the expense of being more encyclopedic?--[[User:Irockarolex|Irockarolex]] 11:08, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

:Placing his official photo on top I believe would constitute [[photo bias]] according to previous attempts. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 11:09, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

:Hmmm. It would appear that the current layout is a shinning example of the photo bias you speak of. Perhaps you were being sarcastic, I am not caffeinated enough for my sarcasm detector to kick in. Anyway, just my thoughts. I thought making the change would lend a bit more credibility to the article and make it look like less of an attack page.--[[User:Irockarolex|Irockarolex]] 20:56, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

::Just didn't want to see you get banned for credibility's sake. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 21:04, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

== Obama's personal achievements a result of affirmative action ==

I must say, as a black man, I find it very encouraging that one can depend on affirmative action to rise to the distinctive position of presidential candidate. Here I am, with a modest job in sales and all this time I could have been riding the affirmative action train all the way to Washington! Does every black person know this? Holy jeez, man, we could hold every elected position in America if this news got out. I'll see you suckers in 2012, vote for me. Thanks affirmative action!--[[User:Carterlansford|Carterlansford]] 22:00, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

Yeah, I thought he actually had won his seat in the Senate because more people voted for him. I had no idea that the other person had actually gotten more votes in the election, but because of Affirmative Action, they gave it to Obama anyway. Makes me wonder why they even had an election to begin with. [Dingus]

==huh?==
whats with that punishment pic? His quote is fine I am sure but that is some drawing and isnt encyclopedic what so ever!
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 05:37, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:A quick google search shows that it's on sex education, I've added an appropriate caption and will add context to the article. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 06:25, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

:: [[Liberals]] do not support funding for abstinence education, and we're not going to mislead people here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 08:30, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

::: I definitely don't support funding for abstinence-only education, and I'm happy for you guys to not mislead anyone about that. But the image just makes you look like a bunch of jackasses. It's like having a LOLcat-type image of Obama saying "Evolution: I taught ur kidz it." It may be an accurate statement of the liberal position, but you still look stupid for putting it in an encyclopedia. [[User:Athuroglossos|Athuroglossos]]

That's because it doesn't work as well as sex education. There's no basis for supporting abstinence education other than an ideological one, but even that is shaky since it's associated with more problems. [[User:Murray|Murray]] 21:44, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

::: I advise strongly that you read the transcript of the interview before making blanket assumptions. I will leave out the bit on abstinence education but will readd the rest of the text, otherwise the picture makes absolutely no sense. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 08:51, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Also it was entirely possible to remove the bit about abstinence education (thus removing any implication that liberals support it) without reverting two edits and other information. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 09:00, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

Since some seem to believe it's about abortion, here's the full quote showing that it is about sex education:

{{cquote|So, when it comes to -- when it comes specifically to HIV/AIDS, the most important prevention is education, which should include -- which should include abstinence only -- should include abstinence education and teaching that children -- teaching children, you know, that sex is not something casual. But it should also include -- it should also include other, you know, information about contraception because, look, I've got two daughters -- 9 years old and 6 years old. I'm going to teach them first of all about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at the age of 16.

You know, so, it doesn't make sense to not give them information. You still want to teach them the morals and the values to make good decisions. That will be important, number one. Then we're still going to have to provide better treatment for those who do have -- who do contract HIV/AIDS, because it's no longer a death sentence, if, in fact, you get the proper cocktails. It's expensive. That's why we want to prevent as much as possible.}}

Since we're the trustworthy encyclopedia I see no reason to quote mine and suggest he was referring to abortion. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 21:10, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

== Liberal Complaint ==

''"Senator Obama began his anti-soldier candidacy for President of the United States on February 10, 2007"''

This is clearly a heavily biased statement. After editing out the "anti-soldier" remark, it was replaced within 2 minutes. This site never had a lot of credibility to begin with, but this whole article is just transparently biased. Amazingly so for a site whose main claim against Wikipedia is that they slant to the left.

Apparently insinuating that Barak Obama's candidacy is not based on being "anti-soldier" is "Liberal bias"

''Warning: your introduction of liberal bias is getting tiresome and will lead to blocking of your account.--Aschlafly 11:23, 8 June 2008 (EDT)''

This is simply amazing.

: Obama raised a ton of money for his campaign from anti-soldier, anti-military sources. Obama catered to that support in key ways.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:43, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

Then why not call it "anti-war"? It's quite a leap to say Obama himself or his campaign is anti-soldier. In fact I think you're using the terms anti-war and anti-soldier interchangeably when they should not be. One can be anti-military in convictions but that does not make him anti-soldier. The argument is misleading and it seems purposefully so. With respect, it would speak a great deal to the creditability here if you allow the replacement of 'anti-soldier' with 'anti-war' because I believe there is a valid case for it.

: It's not primarily "anti-war," but rather is mostly "anti-soldier" or "anti-military". Many [[leftists]] hate soldiers. They really do. They even insult and protest against them.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 12:07, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

:: Don't you have to actually show that *Obama himself* hates soldiers and/or is anti-military before putting that in his entry? Are there no standards whatsoever here except not being liberal? [Dingus]

I don't appreciate you changing the title of my question to "liberal complaint". I am a conservative. The problem here is that you have such a great opportunity to present conservative and liberal viewpoints free of the bias normally associated with them. I believe that true conservative ideals do not need to be slanted or have their opposition omitted to be attractive. You are in fact using standard liberal practices of accepting only "convenient" facts and purposefully omitting opposing viewpoints. These practices, which are unfortunately present in abundance, are serving only to perpetuate a negative stereotype of conservatism. What you're doing is hurting our ideals when you have a tremendous opportunity to be helpful.

::: Obama raised money, big money, from anti-military supporters. Moveon.org actually endorsed Obama and raised a ton of money for him, and Moveon.org took out an ad in the NY Times mocking our top general. Enough said?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:56, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:::: So when racists endorse McCain, you'll edit McCain's entry to indicate that he's running a racist campaign?[Dingus]

::::: You speak in non sequiturs. McCain does not welcome any racist donations. Obama welcomed tens of millions of dollars in largely anti-military donations.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:38, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:: If you are trying to paint Obama as "anti-soldier," you might consider removing the following:

:: ''* S.117 : A bill to amend titles 10 and 38, United States Code, to improve benefits and services for members of the Armed Forces, veterans of the Global War on Terrorism, and other veterans, to require reports on the effects of the Global War on Terrorism, and for other purposes.

:: ''* S.713 : A bill to ensure dignity in care for members of the Armed Forces recovering from injuries. [[User:SamSamson|SamSamson]] 17:32, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

It gets even better. Apparently, if you add a '''citation needed'''{{fact}} to some [[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Barack_Obama&diff=469755&oldid=469754 unreferenced opinions]], then the changes are immediately reverted and your userid is temporarily blocked. Does Conservapedia believe that asking for facts and references is a liberal bias? --[[User:SamSamson|SamSamson]] 12:46, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

: Why, yes. Yes they do.--[[User:Irockarolex|Irockarolex]] 15:05, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== Michelle Obama ==

To add to Obama's biographical information, it would be helpful to have a picture of Michelle Obama uploaded. Perhaps this picture could be used: [http://obamaquotes.com/Squidoo-Xmas-Card-Portrait.jpg Obama Family Christmas Card]?

== Curious about removal of "liberal bias" ==

Why have various attempts to post about the University of Chicago's clarification [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/28/832174.aspx] been deleted as "liberal bias"? Are they being worded incorrectly? [[User:Wandering|Wandering]] 11:22, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Aschlafly, can we get an answer to this? How can citing the official University of Chicago response regarding Obama's University of Chicago employment to answer the question of Obama's employment at University of Chicago be considered liberal bias? [[User:Pharaonic|Pharaonic]] 21:33, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
::You're new here, aren't you? 21:37, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
:::Yes, but I was under the impression that Conservapedia is intended to be an encyclopedia that's free from liberal ''bias'', not one that censors facts that happen to be ''inconvenient'' to the conservative viewpoint. Doing so weakens the conservative argument and helps the liberals make their case. [[User:Pharaonic|Pharaonic]] 21:47, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
::::Well, you're wrong. Conservapedia is an encyclopedia that proudly wears its conservative bias on its sleeve. As for the methodology it takes to express that bias, and the ways in which that reflects upon conservatism writ large, well, the wiki belongs to one guy, and what he says goes.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 21:52, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

::::: Pharaonic, it you sincerely don't understand why a "Senior Lecturer" is not a "Professor," then please see the discussion [http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Aehlinger|here]. If you still don't get it, then I urge you never to work in a personnel or employee hiring department.

::::: AliceBG, we don't have "conservative bias" here and your slurs and excessive talk are getting tiresome. Let's see some substantive edits or please "move on," as [[liberals]] are fond of saying.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:02, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::: Mr. Schlafly, can you actually read? The University of Chicago says he's a professor. If your employer says you're a professor, you're a professor. That's pretty much the definition of the way it works. I don't understand what the controversy is. [[User:Athuroglossos|Athuroglossos]]

::::::: Athuroglossos, it appears that you didn't read what the public relations department at Chicago actually said (it did not say [[Obama]] that held the title of professor). Also, it's foolish for you to put so much emphasis on what a public relations said anyway, when the truth is so obvious. Do you believe the press secretary for [[George W. Bush]] with such fervor also?--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:59, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::: That's not the best analogy in that the press secretary works for the President and "serves at the pleasure of the President". U of Chicago Law School public relations dept. doesn't work for Obama. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 23:02, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::::::If I may say without sounding rude Mr. Schlafly, you have many times stated that Conservapedia has a Conservative bias. It is called CONSERVapedia. --[[User:JMarks|JMarks]] 23:50, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:The press release reads, "From 1992 until his election to the U.S. Senate in 2004, Barack Obama '''served as a professor''' in the Law School." Obama said, "I was a constitutional law professor," not "I held the title of professor." Your position is untenable, Mr. Schlafly; you might want to admit that you were wrong, and move on. Besides, the public relations arm of the University of Chicago—the world's leading school of conservative economics, I might add—is not a professional advocate for the Barack Obama campaign the way Dana Perino is a professional advocate for the President. [[User:Hindublog|Hindublog]] 17:18, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== Punishment image ==
'''Note to editors''' 
If you remove the '''Image:Punishment.jpg''' from this article, you will be blocked for one day. --[[User:DeanS|DeanSformerly Crocoite]] 15:29, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Since the image has been removed several times and had to be reinserted, the '''blocks for removing the image''' will be '''increased to 3 days'''. --[[User:DeanS|DeanSformerly Crocoite]] 21:36, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

This image is ridiculous. There's no reason to have an image with that quote. I could go to McCain's page, pull a quote of his out of context, apply a "witty" image, and I'd probably get banned. I'm removing it as a protest, it's worth the one day block. -- Aaronp

:Wouldn't that be considered blocking because of ideology? --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 15:55, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
:"Editors" not "Editor's" [[User:Dnotice|Dnotice]] 17:25, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Obviously this page isn't fair or balanced, but this kind of thing is purely sensationalist. Removed, block me.[[User:Godlover|Godlover]] 17:36, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:That certainly does look like blocking for ideology. Besides, [[:Image:Punishment.jpg]] is clearly a propagandistic image, not an encyclopedic image. If someone at the evil liberal Wikipedia took a quote from a politician and Photoshopped an image like that, then inserted that image into that politician's article, they'd get reverted and possibly blocked for it. At the very least, the evil liberal Wikipedia administrators wouldn't use admin tools to protect one revision of an article with a provocative image. If you're going to be a "trustworthy encyclopedia", then stick to an encyclopedic treatment of the facts, quotes, and opinions. --[[User:Elkman|Elkman]] 17:39, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

I'm confused as to how the image is relevant at all. It's just a picture of a baby, and doesn't provide any new information. The purpose of images is usually to add context, and as an encyclopedia, I would think the goal here is to cut down on clutter. And honestly the "motivational poster" style reminds me of 4chan. [[User:Fantasia|Fantasia]] 18:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Entirely unencyclopedic and unprofessional, more suitable for a set of conservative blog posts than a reference source.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 19:24, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

I'd be surprised if any of you CP sysops have ever even glanced through an encyclopedia. Please stop calling this project an encyclopedia as you are taking that name in vain. [[User:TBarret|TBarret]] 21:22, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

I think that the image is not appropriate for an encyclopedia entry. Use the quote in the article, get rid of the image. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 22:53, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Not only is the image accurate and acceptable, the fact that liberals are obsessed with removing it shows it makes a difference. Somebody removed it again. make sure you keep it up until the end of the year at the least.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 17:10, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

The image is unrelated. The quote is very applicable, but should be used separately from the image. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 17:16, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
:Since it is such a contentious issue the image should stay and the question should be referred to Andy or senior sysops for decision. It is not for anyone to remove. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:18, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
::something being contentious is not reason enough for it to be in the article. In order for an image to be part of an article it has to have some connection to the article itself. The image in question, (a baby held in hands) has no connection to Barack Obama, and therefore deserves no place in the article. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 17:27, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
:::It is contentious between sysops and therefore hasty action ought not to be taken. You can read what Dean has said at the head of this section. Why should sysop CPAdmin1 have more or less authority than sysop DeanS? Where there is such a clash, the answer is not to have an edit war, but to refer the matter upstairs. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 17:30, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

: If the image is unrelated, than consider taking down Obamas no hand over the heart during the national anthem. Obama says he is partiotic just not in a normal way. The guy has a 100% record on death to children in the womb. Abortion is a big issue and Obamas view of a mistake is a baby. He should be called out in any image. Is a baby a mistake? You decide if Obama is right by looking at the picture. The connection is clear. If not allowed to stand, then a picture of mutilated aborted child should take its place.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 22:26, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::The quote can stand without the image. People don't need a picture to know what a baby is. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 15:33, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

: Where is DeanS? There is a picture of a child in womb on John McCains page. What is the difference between images? Remove Obama's quote and keep the Picture with the headline Punishment.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 15:20, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

::I also removed the picture from the McCain article.
I have protected this article because of disruptive edit-warring. Wil the involved parties please seek consensus on this talk page instead of reverting? [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 21:57, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:A great idea - perhaps someone should convene the Student Panel and get them to rule on this.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:24, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
::Why don't you do it? [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 22:27, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:::I assume that is something a sysop/site administrator would do.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:31, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
::::Nope. You can do it if you want. But why not have the involved editors (or even the entire conservapedia community) come to consensus on this talk page? [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 22:35, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::Are you talking about a true consensus - one editor one vote? or one sysop one vote? Or one senior admin one vote? Well, for my two cents' worth - the picture is silly, adds nothing to the article and makes Conservapedia look more like a blog than an encyclopedia. It does the whole project a disservice and robs the implied editorial position (a position which I disagree with but respect), that B.O. is an inferior candidate to J.M. of a lot (as in almost all) credibility. Oh, yeah - the U of C CLEARLY stated that B.O. held a title "equivalent to professor." Why is that such a problem? [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 22:52, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::Thank you for your opinion. Now we are going to wait to see what other editors say. [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 23:03, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::::I would make the image smaller, and with a more detailed caption as to what it is, where it came from, and the source of the Obama quote within. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:08, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::: There's no reason to have the image at all, as it has nothing to do with an encyclopedic entry on Obama. Alice is correct in saying that it makes CP look like a conservative blog. Like I said previously, I could go through and do the same thing to other pages, slapping on "witty" macros, but that wouldn't contribute anything to the encyclopedic goals of CP. The image should stay removed. -- [[User:Aaronp|Aaronp]]
::::::::Do you think this image would be better in an article about the campaign between Obama and McCain, as in a something about means and methods used to get a point across? It may have an actual quote from Obama, but it's still a campaign poster. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:19, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::Is that an article yet? It is fairly early. Does it still need to be written? [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 23:23, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::Karajou - only if the poster came from somewhere with some sort of notability - the RNC, the McCain campaign, a large, nationwide right-to-life group, something of that nature. As far as I understand, this thing was put together on an open access website and published on Some Guy's Blog. I could run off a dozen similar things in an hour and put them on a blog somewhere - that hardly warrants their inclusion in an encyclopedia article.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 23:24, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::::::True, but it doesn't automatically exclude it either. [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 23:26, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::::::As a campaign image, it could go in an article about the current campaign, but I agree with Alice in that the image appears to have been created by a single individual not connected to anything beyond a personal blog. If the image was created by a McCain staffer, than it could be included.
::::::::::The article should be titled "2008 Presidential Campaign", and have subtopics on all the participants and their outcomes. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:28, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::::Page does exist: [http://www.conservapedia.com/2008_Presidential_Campaign]. Maybe make a subtopic on methods used by all sides to put their point across. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:38, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::::::::Or we could not put any propaganda up on the encyclopedia at all until the issue is over with or unless it is highly influential (a la that ad with the atomic bomb and the young girl), as would seem more appropriate for a reference site.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 23:41, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::::::The image has no place in an encyclopedia article. It does not relate to Obama or to the quote. I think it should be deleted. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 23:56, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Your removal of the image defeats the purpose of my locking the page in an dispute resolution attempt. I am now entirely confused as to how to solve this, now the other users will cry foul and I will be forced to unlock commencing the revert war. I personally thought that we were on our way to reaching consensus. *sigh* [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 00:00, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::I think that a consensus can be reached just as easily without the image in the article in the meantime. I think that while debating and coming to a consensus it makes more sense to have the questionable image out of the article. It is certainly not hurting the article, or the credibility of this site while it is not in the article. The debate is over whether it does that while in the article. Therefore, it makes more sense to keep it out of the article, and not in a position to be a problem. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 00:12, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
If it is deleted from the article how can people reach an informed decision on whether it should be in the article or not? It appears to me that you are asserting ownership of this piece, and that is neither justified nor justifiable. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 05:54, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

I would like to lend my voice to this and say I oppose the picture, it offers no value. The quote might but the picture does not
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 06:10, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

I would like to lend my voice to this and say I support the picture, it offers enormous value. The left wins when it is removed. The left that supports abortion and the candidate who condones abortion wins. Silence opposition to abortion, go ahead, smart move that you will answer for one day.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 10:25, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

I oppose the picture's inclusion. The quote is already in the article; the picture is unnecessary and does not belong in an encyclopædia. -[[User:CSGuy|CSGuy]] 10:53, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

:Don't get me wrong. I hate abortion as much as anyone here. That photo just is not related to Obama. If you want to put the photo in the abortion article, go ahead. as for making an informed decision, I'll put the photo here where people can look at it. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 10:54, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
[[Image:Punishment.jpg|325px|thumb|right|]]

== "but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation." ==

Um, this is an encyclopedia. It's not our place to pass judgment on whether it was adequate or not, especially when the explanation given is not quoted. [[User:Wandering|Wandering]] 18:27, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:Hmmm There are a number of conservative politicians that aren't wearing flag pins. Can we put up a picture of those politicians and make note that they didn't explain their removal? Perhaps I can get permission to add a recent picture of John McCain not wearing his pin?--[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 18:31, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Ah yes, the flag pin malarky. Yes, I suppose the man who wants to take the troops home and provide them with a good education and good healthcare benefits and actually reward their service is anti-patriotic and anti-soldier. Are you sure you people aren't hinting at something more devious? That he can't be President because he's unpatriotic? Or that he can't be President because he's black? [[User:TBarret|TBarret]] 21:41, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

: Wow, now Obama supporters are going to imply that a criticism about his lack of lapel pin has something to do with his ethnicity?! Obama supporters are hilarious.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:58, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

::Guess who does wear a flag pin.....[http://tingilinde.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/08/29/craigmugshot.jpg Mr. Bathroom Knocker] himself. Lets automatically vote him for president, as he completes the only requirement to be a president, wearing the sacred flag pin. --[[User:JMarks|JMarks]] 15:38, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

:Right wingers are terrifying. You may think I'm hilarious, but the vast majority of African Americans think the flag pin controversy is simply a front by the right (As well as the constant use of his middle name, Hussein) to make the case that Obama is somehow 'unamerican' and 'unpatriotic'. Well, the American people are really sick of it this time Mr. Schlafly. We're not going to stand for this dinosour 'got ya' politics anymore. Come November, the American people will have spoken and your brand of smear, insult and pettiness will become nothing more than an internet phenonomon, where only the most disjointed will indulge in the politics of character destruction. I hope you enjoyed your twenty years under the sun, but finally, America is going to enter the 21st century. [[User:TBarret|TBarret]] 09:50, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

==The Introduction==

The introduction should give a passionless rundown of the man's life and times. Please consult a Britannica article for proper format. This 'swiftboating' that begins at the article is highly unacceptable for an academic project. [[User:TBarret|TBarret]] 21:41, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

Does anyone have any interest in discussing how to actually improve this article, or are we happy to allow the outline of an article be overwhelmingly critical? If you are serious about making an encyclopedia, then please, consider professional measures even about people you dislike. [[User:TBarret|TBarret]] 10:02, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
:TB - The site's administration has made it clear that the tone of this article is not up for negotiation: From the professor-not-a-professor question and the choice to ignore what the U of C has to say on the matter, to the baby image to the fact that while the McCain article excuses his voting absences due to the fact that JM is running for President while the Obama article makes no such excuse.... So while some editors may, as you put it, "have [an] interest in discussing how to actually improve this article," Conservapedia, as an institution, would prefer to "allow the outline of [the] article be overwhelmingly critical." You don't like it? Go edit at Wikipedia, or do as Aschafly did, and start your own wiki project.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 10:33, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

::Why the concern, though? I too was annoyed at the coverage, and then came to a realization last night. Who is CP's audience? Homeschoolers? Assuming this is their only political reference point---they're too young to vote anyway. And any adult who uses CP as a primary source of information isn't likely to vote for Barack Obama regardless of whether CP acknowledges he served as a professor or not. Anyone who sees this site and buys the information presented was never, and will never be, a Barack Obama voter. So why waste the energy trying to correct the misinformation on the site for viewers that won't use it anyway? --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 10:37, 11 June 2008 (EDT)

==Structure==

I personally would like to see this page in the same format as McCain. Obviously, Obama has less of a history to compare apples with apples. However, I like McCains page structure. In Obamas structure, you have Positions and Qualifications. Also, Obamas page has Political Views which are essentially positions. McCain page lists -budget -education -healthcare. Obamas hasn't the layout and seems to be more piece meal with a scattering of viewpoints. I would change but I don't feel I have authority for signification structure changes.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 23:26, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

:I would like to see a standardized structure for articles on politicians. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 16:29, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== The Senior Lecturer Reference ==

The reference that CPadmin1 used says that Obama "served as a professor in the law school." Since that information, quoted verbatim, was removed earlier, perhaps another reference should be used, lest that information leak out? --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 17:24, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

== "Presidential scrutiny sought more information on the Indonesia public school and it was determined not to be a Madrassa, teaching Islam." ==

"Presidential scrutiny" is vague - did the President scrutinize the school? I think "media scrutiny" is what you mean.[[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 10:26, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

: Great point. Please change accordingly. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:32, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

== 57 Islamic states... ==

1. "It has been observed" is passive voice and weak. 2. There are 57 states with Muslim majorities, but I don't think all of these are "Islamic states" in the way that say, Saudi Arabia and the UAE are. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 10:32, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

:In addition, make note of the mistake, by all means. But that is the most far-fetched explanation for the number. There are 57 states with Muslim majorities, so he must have been thinking that instead? Come on, let's at least TRY to be realistic, if not encyclopedic. This has gone past the line of conservative into fringe thinking. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 10:34, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

No one has come up with any other explanation. Also, by the way, when there is a Muslim majority, it is common to consider it to be an Islamic state.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:49, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

:The other explanation is that it was a slip of the tongue. Not every slip is Freudian and indicates he's actually a Muslim. That's a pretty far-fetched conspiracy theory. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 10:58, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

Actually, here's the explanation, clear and simple. If you listen to the entire remark, he states that he has one more to go, and Alaska and Hawaii as well. Taking three states from the 50 total, gives you 47 states that he visited. A slip between saying forty-(seven) and fifty-(seven) is more likely especially if he was going to say something about visiting all 50 states (putting fifty in his head). It's more likely he slipped between the forty part and said fifty, as opposed to some outlandish theory of how many Islamic states there are. --[[User:Jareddr|Jareddr]] 11:04, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

::here is the full quote.
::''"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."''
::It is obvious where the number 57 comes from. He accidentally added 10. He excluded Alaska and Hawaii, because his staff "would not justify it" and he had been to all the other states except 1. That leaves 47. I simple mistake, "slip of the tounge" as Jareddr said is the only plausible explanation. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 11:06, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

Here's another explanation - "57 states" is a figure of speech meaning "a whole lot of states". Why 57? Because of the well-known Heinz slogan "57 varieties". A far more likely explanation than some far-fetched attempt to link it to Islam, at least! [[User:Humblpi|Humblpi]] 17:14, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

: Oh right. And Obama learned about Heinz 57 in ... his Islamic grade school!

: Face it, guys. Americans learned that we have 50 states in grade school and no one educated here would ever make a mistake about the number. Obama was educated in an Islamic grade school, which is a very different experience. Perhaps that's not a big deal, but let's be truthful and honest about it rather than pretending he's something he's not.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:40, 12 June 2008 (EDT)

::It was a slip of the tongue, not an actual mistake in knowledge. No one who has lived in the united states any length of time, and served as a US senator would make a mistake about that. If you read the entire quote which I posted above, he clearly goes through the math starting from 50 (all the states) subtracting Alaska and Hawaii, and one other state that he doesn't name. This brings him to 47. He accidentally said 57 (possibly because the number 50 was in his head because that is the number of states) instead of 47. There is no reason for the number of islamic states to have anything to do with it. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 11:31, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

==Drug use==
Why is my statment about drug use being removed? It's an important thing. We all know drugs are dangerous and immoral. People need to be warned that a man who wants to be president used to be a drug addict. What sort of role model would he be? What does this say about his morals? What if he has a relapse while in office? Maybe the drugs have effected his brain. Do we want a president whos brain might be damaged from drug use? [[User:TonyT|TonyT]] 11:37, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

:Please provide a cite. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 15:49, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

::He talks about it in his book. Even Wikipedia mentions it. Here is a cite they use [http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/11/21/obama_gets_blunt_with_nh_students/]. [[User:TonyT|TonyT]] 15:55, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Ok, you can out it in, just put it somewhere further down the page because it is from a long time ago, and has little importance at this point. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 16:01, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
:Do you have any proof he was an addict? Additionally, you put "has allegedly stopped doing them" - why? He is the source for both statements (taking drugs, stopped taking them). [[User:Wandering|Wandering]] 16:05, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
::::It's not that difficult, Wandering. A harmful self-revelation ("I'm a drug user") is likely to be true. In the nature of things, a beneficial self-revelation ("I'm nice and clean now") is less likely to be true. It comes from an understanding of human nature, something in which Liberals are curiously deficient. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 16:14, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::Well, if nothing else, I have to applaud your consistency and the efficiency of your early methods. [[User:Wandering|Wandering]] 16:40, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

:I can't quite see how you're planning to use this against him. After all, the current president was also a cokehead and a pothead-- Oh. Nevermind, I see. [[User:DannyRedful|DannyRedful]] 16:08, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

::Are you trying to say drugs aren't addictive? Or it's OK if he didn't do them every day? As for George W. Bush do you have any proof to back up your slanderous attacks, or are you just going to smear him like all liberals do? Barack Hussein Obama admits he did illegal hard drugs. He has no reason to lie about that. He would have a reason to lie if he were still doing them. I don't know if he still does or not, but I wouldn't be surprised. Drug habits are very hard to break. Has he released the results of a drug test to the public? I don't think so. Do you wonder why he hasn't? [[User:TonyT|TonyT]] 16:15, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

:::Marijuana is not physically addictive, my parodist friend. I'm also not saying it's OK-- Please stop putting words in my mouth. Yes, yes I do: [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6999665/ Bush makes sure you know he didn't deny it.] Furthermore, you called marijuana a hard drug, which is incorrect. [[User:DannyRedful|DannyRedful]] 16:22, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

::::"Marijuana is not physically addictive". Liberals love to pretend their favorite drugs aren't harmful. And did you not see that he did cocaine as well, or are you going to pretend that's not addictive either? He may say he only did it on occasion, but when it comes to drug use you have to take what a person admits they did and multiply it by 10, at least, if you want the truth. And Bush did not say what he did in his youth, so to say he did cocaine is speculation, and just making things up. [[User:TonyT|TonyT]] 16:34, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Good sir, do you have a source to prove that Marijuana is physically addictive? Furthermore, yes, I saw that he did cocaine-- And to say that someone did cocaine ten times doesn't make sense. At that point they'd be addicted. Your logic is flawed terribly. Furthermore, he made a specific effort to not deny he did cocaine. Your remarks that Obama might be doing cocaine in office are, however, pure speculation. Good day. [[User:DannyRedful|DannyRedful]] 16:41, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::Whether or not it is "physically addictive" is not important. It is illegal, immoral, and dangerous. It is also a gateway drug to the hard drugs that are even more dangerous. In Obama's case it led to cocaine. You say someone is addicted to cocaine after doing it 10 times. I don't doubt it. How many times has Obama done it? Did he get addicted? I don't know, and I didn't put that in the article. But it is something everyone should be concerned about. We don't say that he is secret a Muslim even though he might be because we can't prove it, but we do rightly mention that he went to an Islamic school, and the 57 Islamic states statement so people can decide for themselves. We should also prominently mention his drug use, so people know that he used to do drugs regularly, and they can decide for themselves if they think it did him any long term harm or if they think he still does and will continue to do so. It's a risk people need to know. It's much more important than his lies about his uncle. [[User:TonyT|TonyT]] 17:00, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

Tim, I agree with putting it further down the page. Right now the lead looks bad with all these criticisms. I agree that it belongs in the article but I think we should make a seperate section for all of this or include it in the relevant sections already there. We had the same thing on the McCain page. A lead section full of little criticisms of mistakes in speeches until I removed it. What do you think? [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 16:12, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

::I agree. I think the lead should only include major biographical information. Everything else belongs further down. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 16:16, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

:::If CP is going to be credible, then George W. Bush's admitted alcoholism needs to be added to that article, or the drug comments removed from this one. Trustworthy means being consistent and fair. --[[User:DinsdaleP|DinsdaleP]] 16:21, 13 June 2
::::No one ever went to prison for being an alcoholic (a word that people use to describe conservatives who drink but rarely liberals). Obama's looking to get into the white house when he should be in the big house. [[User:TonyT|TonyT]] 16:25, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

:::::Be careful what you say. several of your comments have been thinly veiled claims that Obama is a drug addict. You are very close to being blocked. As for Bush, feel free to put anything in that you can find a reference for. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 16:31, 13 June 2008 (EDT)

== Since you've decided... ==

Since the powers that be have decided to include every single verbal folly (that means word mess-up for all you fancy non-elitist spawns of NON-doctor crazy women who like rape) that Mr. Obama has made, I suggest we include in the page for George W. Bush, that he falsely claimed that OBGYN's all sleep with their patients, childrens are learning, that IRAQ was a good idea, that people in a hundred thousand years will look back and say "Gee, bombing the crap out of a country for no specific reason then sending thousands of troops to die because he liked war was the best idea ever. Lets give him a medal, and every other mess-up that Bush, Sir Quail Hunter, Dan Quayle, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity and every other human being who has ever, ever in their life, made a mess mistake is speaking, then connect it to conspiracy theories. Like, for instance when Bush said "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family"....HE’S A CANNIBAL!!!!!. And, when the over lord of all of Conservapedia once said "See if you can learn out to spell "superior"....He is a Satanist because the Satanists have a code word which replaces how with out in a condescending tone of voice which means "I hate Jesus". I tried to be a good boy. I tried to do something interesting, then I realized, you can't. Not here. Because the evil commie overlords will always keep you in the dark, tell you to shut up, and hypocrite their way to the top. Reagan did it, Bush I did it, Bush II did it.....and Andy did it. It is amazing that we don't go on merit in this world. We go on who gets up one morning and says, you know what....I don't like them. Sure they are peaceful and aren't bothering me, but they don't quite believe what I believe. I like Jesus, they like Mohammed Ali or some other boxer, so I'm gonna blow their heads up. And tell the people its for their own good, that those evil non Jesus fanatics hate us. Well guess what. Everybody hates americans, for good reason. We are a 231 year old country that thinks we own everything, know better than everybody and have the right to blow you up, all in the name of Jesus, Cash, and the third god, National Frickin Pride. Ban me, and remove the vile stench of idiocy and intolerance from me.

The (hopefully) Gone,
JMarks.

==Political Views==

My quote below keeps getting (citation needed) put after it. I am glad to site this except I think yellow belly liberals are messing with me. Since when do we need to citations for 'often refers' or 'frequently refuses'? Common, every week occurances don't need citations.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 20:53, 15 June 2008 (EDT)

quote
Senator Obama often refers to the office that he seeks, without the proper respect of those that came before him. When talking of the President, he frequently refuses to call him President Bush or even Mr. George Bush. Obama disrespectfully calls him just 'George Bush'.

There needs to be a citation, because you can't just say that he does something without proof. Also, when the article says he has 'no executive experience', what does that refer to? Executive as in 'Presidential'? [[WillD]]

OK. I'll make the necessary citations--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 14:19, 16 June 2008 (EDT)

==Christians==

Any reason why he doesn't belong in this category? [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 07:44, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

: Obama has left his church, and there is substantial skepticism about what he really believes as opposed to merely posturing for political gain. Most Christians do not take the political positions that Obama has taken, such as his support for [[abortion]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 07:48, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::Not being affiliated with a Church does not mean a person is not a Christian, a majority of Christians (at least here in Australia) do not attend Church regularly and have no membership with a religious organisation. Same with the second point, just because Christians disagree with someone it does not remove their faith. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 07:50, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::: As often occurs here, detractors like yourself insist on the possibility of an exception rather than accepting a general rule. Obama doesn't simply disagree with "someone", he disagrees with the vast majority of Christians about [[abortion]]. Also, he never changed his Muslim name, while most Christians would upon any real conversion, just as Christians change to Muslim names when the conversion is in the opposite direction (e.g., Cassius Clay -> Muhammad Ali). So numerous indications weight against insisting that Obama must be a Christian. Conservapedia is not fooled by political expedience that can distort the truth.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 08:04, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

===Christians and Abortion===
[http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm Here are some poll results about Americans and abortion]. [http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19771020&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8 Here are some poll results specific to Americans who self-identify as Christians]. [[User:Drochld|Drochld]] 17:59, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

===Why Wouldn't he Change his Name?===
If he were trying to fake his Christianity, he would certainly change his name '''unless the name "Barack Hussein Obama, Jr." had some meaning greater that his political ambition.''' How could we not conclude that the name is a reminder to him of his true loyalties? [[User:Drochld|Drochld]] 20:26, 17 June 2008 (EDT)
:Why would he change his name? Hussein is not by any means a Muslim name, but rather than Arabic name. You're confusing race with religion here... [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 20:29, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

==57 states, again==

Sorry to say, but that line just seems ignorant. At the time Obama left grade school in 1971, the OIC had 30 members. One of its members, Albania, was officially atheist, while Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Brunei, Mozambique and Suriname ''did not even exist'' as independent countries. (Bangladesh became independent in 1971, the year he left Indonesia, but in any case didn't join the OIC until 1974.) So the notion that he "learned in grade school" about "57 Islamic states" is absurd on its face. [[User:Btraven|Btraven]] 12:47, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

: The article doesn't claim Obama learned about "57 Islamic states" in grade school. It does make clear why Obama did not learn about "50 states" in grade school.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 12:53, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::1. He had from, say, 1965 to 1967, from 1971 to 2008, and for that matter from 1967 to 1971 to learn that the US has 50 states. In all likelihood we're talking about a slip of the tongue from someone who's made other gaffes (not unsurprising in a grueling primary fight with a loaded schedule and reporters recording his every word). Moreover, if you take the 50 states and add DC, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, Guam, Puerto Rico and Democrats Abroad - all of which had nominating contests - you get to 56.
::2. Even if his remark has some significance (which it doesn't), a serious biography doesn't mention, in its lead section, a remark barely noticed by anyone. You talk about his background, his education, his accomplishments (such as they are), the campaign - but don't veer into speculation on the basis of what is most likely a verbal slip. I don't like the man myself, but some pretense of objectivity should be kept when discussing him. [[User:Btraven|Btraven]] 14:07, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::: It may be a slip of a tongue, just as a racist or other offensive remark can be. But slips of the tongue can cry out for explanation, as this "57 states" slip does. You can bet if any Republican candidate had a "slip of the tongue" that was racial in nature, then liberals would run him out of the contest.

::: I've never heard any American say, as a slip of the tongue, that there are more than 50 states. So Obama's remarks are significant and do cry out for explanation.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:12, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::::Is it appropriate to list all the gaffes of George W. Bush or John McCain as well? He could've read the number fifty seven in something he read before the speech and just slipped up. Surely you've misspoke before? [[User:DannyRedful|DannyRedful]] 18:05, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::::: Your explanation is implausible. Yes, of course, we all make mistakes. Dan Quayle made one once, and [[liberals]] hounded him out of politics for it. The point is not that Obama made a mistake, but why.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 18:08, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

::::::"He read a piece of information" is a more implausible explanation for misspeaking than "He's a Muslim manchurian candidate who compromised his mission to take over the US and give it to the Muslims"? [[User:DannyRedful|DannyRedful]] 18:12, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Thats true but G.W.Bush once said he never stopped thinking of ways to harm his country. We dont wonder why he slipped there.
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 18:10, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Barack Hussein Obama

2008-06-18T00:28:44Z

Dchall1: Undo revision 476888 by Drochld (Talk) - he's not muslim

'''Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.''' (b. Honolulu, August 4, 1961) is the presumptive 2008 nominee of the [[Democratic Party]] for president.<ref>[http://www.democrats.org Democratic Party website]</ref> Obama has served as a freshman [[Democratic]] [[Senator]] from [[Illinois]] for three and a half years. In 2007, Obama was the most [[liberal]] Senator.<ref>http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/</ref> If elected, Obama would be the first [[Affirmative Action President]].

[[Image:Democrat Obama during the Pledge.jpg|325px|thumb|right|Democratic Presidential candidate Barack Obama on the campaign trail with [[Bill Richardson]] and [[Hillary Clinton]] during the [[National Anthem]].]]

Obama claimed to have visited 57 states while campaigning for president of the United States, which of course has only 50 states. He could never explain where the false number of 57 came from, but it has been observed that there are 57 Islamic states and Obama was educated at an Islamic grade school while he lived in an Islamic country.<ref>http://www.stoptheaclu.com/archives/2008/05/12/obamas-freudian-slip-there-are-57-islamic-states/</ref>

Obama has declared himself to be a [[Christian]], yet never replaced his Muslim name with a Christian one as many do.<ref>For example, when Saul became a Christian, he changed his name to "Paul"; when the famous boxer Cassius Clay converted to [[Islam]], he took the Muslim name of [[Muhammad Ali]].</ref> Obama downplays his [[Islam]]ic background by claiming that his [[Kenya]]n [[Muslim]] father was a "confirmed atheist" before Obama was born, but in fact less than 1% of Kenyans are atheists, agnostics or non-religious.<ref>http://www.adherents.com/Na/Na_14.html</ref>

Asked to explain why working-class [[Democrats]] do not support him [[Pennsylvania]], Obama replied "it's not surprising, then, they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7344532.stm</ref> In response to outrage when his remarks were unexpectedly publicized, Obama replied, I "didn't say it as well as I should have."<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7344532.stm</ref>

Obama was on the faculty of the University of Chicago from 1992 to 2004. He claimed that he was a constitutional law professor, when in actuality he merely held the title of "Senior Lecturer."<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref>
<ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref>

In his 1995 memoir, ''Dreams of my Father'', Obama admitted doing illegal drugs, including cocaine and marijuana, which he referred to as "blow" and "pot" respectively, in his high school years and into his college years, before choosing a different path in life.<ref>http://www.nbc5.com/politics/3444371/detail.html</ref><ref>http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/02/26/obamas_senate_foreign_relations_work/</ref>

Obama wore an American flag lapel pin after [[9/11]], but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation.<ref>http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/when_did_obama_stop_wearing_a.html</ref> Presumably it would have hurt him with anti-military campaign donors.<ref>In 2007, at critical moments in his campaign for the nomination, Obama had difficulties securing the support of anti-war activists. [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/04/politics/main2645861.shtml]</ref> Recently, he has begun wearing one again, for explained reasons, though it is likely a political pander.

In his memoirs, Obama claimed a ''[[Life]]'' magazine article about a man who had become ill after trying to lighten his skin color by chemical means had a major impact on him. In fact, ''Life'' never published any such article.<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/26/AR2007032601583.html</ref><ref>"Then there's the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don't exist, say the magazine's own historians." [http://newsbusters.org/node/11641]</ref>

Obama falsely claimed that he "had an uncle who was one of the — who was part of the first American troops to go into [[Auschwitz]] and liberate the [[concentration camp]]s. And the story in our family was that when he came home, he just went up into the attic and he didn't leave the house for six months."<ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,359061,00.html</ref> In fact, the Soviet army liberated Auschwitz. Embarrassed, the Obama campaign later admitted that Obama was wrong, and claimed he should have said that Obama's great-uncle helped liberate a subcamp of Buchenwald.<ref>http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/27/obamas_uncle_and_the_liberatio.html#more
Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton later claimed that Obama's great-uncle "served in the 89th Infantry Division that Liberated Ohrdruf, a Subcamp of Buchenwald, the First Camp Liberated by Americans, on April 4, 1945." Given that Obama misrepresented what happened, one can also wonder about his story that his relative went into the attic and did not leave his house for six months afterwards.</ref>

Obama said that "[t]here was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, [[Alabama]], because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born." In fact, Obama was born in 1961, and the Selma march took place in 1965.<ref>http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/21/barack-obama-gaffe-machine/</ref>

Obama states that he has consistently opposed the [[Iraq War]] since 2002, a claim and position that former President [[Bill Clinton]] criticized as "the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."<ref>http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1131516320080111</ref>

Obama's campaign "is proud to be actively participating in over 60 local and state wide [[homosexual]] Pride events over the summer."<ref>http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/jcitron/gG5VLs</ref>

==Early life and education==
Barack Hussein Obama was born in [[Honolulu]], [[Hawaii]] to Barack Sr., and Ann Dunham in 1961. In 1967, he moved with his mother and new stepfather to Jakarta, [[Indonesia]]. He attended a [[Catholic]] elementary school for two years, followed by an Indonesian public school for two years. Media scrutiny in the light of Obama's campaign for President revealed that the Indonesia public school was not a madrassa, teaching Islam. However, clearly Obama would have taken days off of school in observance of Islamic holidays. After Indonesia, he returned to the United States with his mother where he attended the Punahou School, the leading private preparatory school in [[Hawaii]], until he graduated in 1979.

Obama continued his education at Occidental College in Los Angeles, [[California]], before graduating with his Bachelor of Arts from [[Columbia University]] in New York, [[New York]]. After working as a community organizer in New York City and Chicago, Illinois, Obama enrolled at [[Harvard]] Law School. He became a member of the [[liberal]] ''Harvard Law Review'' in 1989, which used racial [[quotas]] for membership, and was then elected by popular vote as its first African American president in 1990. He graduated ''magna cum laude'' with his J.D. in 1991 and chose not to pursue a federal clerkship, which is the typical post-graduate position for top law students.

He was "Senior Lecturer in the Law" -- not a professor-level position -- at the [[University of Chicago]] Law School as of 2004,<ref>http://www-news.uchicago.edu/releases/04/041103.obama.shtml</ref> and is no longer active at the school.<ref>http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama</ref>

==Legal career==
Following law school, Obama continued his work as a community organizer in Chicago as Director of Illinois Project Vote. In 1993 he was hired as an associate at the Chicago law firm Miner, Barnhill & Galland, P.C., and began lecturing in Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. He remains on the faculty on leave of absence through today. During this time he wrote his first book, ''Dreams from My Father'', detailing his background, his youth, and his education. ''Dreams'' was published in 1995.

==Senate career==
Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate for the first time in 1996 and served there for the next eight years. Following a failed campaign for the House of Representatives, Obama ran for the open Senate seat from Illinois in 2004. Obama delivered the keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. He won a seat in the [[U.S. Senate]] after [[liberals]] obtained the release of confidential and personally embarrassing divorce records of his opponent, Jack Ryan, forcing him to resign from the race and be replaced by an out-of-state candidate, [[Alan Keyes]].

March 16th, 2005 AP article puts Senator Obama on record to ban oil drilling in the Alaska frontier known as ANWR <ref>http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/0316-13.htm</ref>

His 2007 voting record in the U.S. [[Senate]] places him as its most [[liberal]] member. Among fellow Senate Democrats, he was further left than liberals like [[Ted Kennedy]], [[John Kerry]], [[Dianne Feinstein]], [[Charles Schumer]], [[Russ Feingold]], [[Carl Levin]], [[Joseph Biden]] and [[Harry Reid]].<ref>[http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc]</ref> He has grown steadily more liberal since arriving at the Senate: the same analysis assessed him as 10th most liberal in 2006<ref>[http://www.nationaljournal.com/members/news/2007/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc]</ref> and 16th most liberal in 2005.<ref>[http://www.nationaljournal.com/members/news/2007/voteratings/sen/lib_cons.htm?o1=lib_composite&o2=desc]</ref>

In late 2006, Obama's second book, ''The Audacity of Hope'', was published. Its title was supplied by the Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr., a minister who has stated that "racism is how this country was founded and how this country was run .... We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."<ref>http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/14/obama_condemns_pastors_remarks.html</ref> The book contains more of Senator Obama's personal story including the roles of both family and politics. ''Audacity'' spent 30 weeks on the ''New York Times'' Nonfiction Best Sellers list.<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/27/books/bestseller/0527besthardnonfiction.html?_r=1&oref=slogin New York Times Best Sellers Non Fiction]</ref>

Senator Obama is the chairman of an important subcommittee that has oversight of our efforts in Afghanistan. He has not held one hearing on Afghanistan even though American forces are risking their lives in a theatre of war. Since joining Foreign Relations, Obama has missed three meetings on a "new strategy" in [[Afghanistan]], a country he has never visited.<ref>[http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obama-absent-at-afghanistan-hearings-2008-03-01.html</ref> Barack Obama clinched his party's nomination for President after 16 straight months of campaigning.

In June 2008, Obama voted with the Democratic party to kill the sunset provision of the [[Bush]] tax cuts. By letting these tax cuts expire, those single mothers with two kids will pay an additional $1,800 annually. Married couples with incomes of $50,000 will pay an additional $2,180. annually. Elderly couples will pay an additional $2,000 and a family of four will pay 191% more per year in taxes. Barack Obama often claims to be for taxing the rich their fair share. By voting to eliminate the Bush tax cuts, Obama is taxing most middle class and blue collar families.

Obama and the Democratic-led Congress has voted for the upgraded GI Bill despite the opposition from the President, the Secretary of Defense, the Pentagon, the generals in combat zones and the GOP Presidential nominee. It was crafted to increase veteran benefits. Yet, the strain on our military is great.<ref>[http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/mccain_to_obama_dont_demagogue.php] http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/05/mccain_to_obama_dont_demagogue.php , McCain To Obama: Don't Demagogue The GI Bill, May 22, 2008</ref> The bill would cost $2.8 to $4 billion per month. It depletes our volunteer military personel by enticing them to leave service rather than be re-deployed. Taxes of those earning $500,000 to $1 million a year will pay for the upgrade over ten years.

=== Bills co-sponsored ===
Obama's principal legislation was S. 2433, which was an attempt to force the U.S. to increase its foreign aid by hundreds of billions of dollars under the guise of reducing global poverty, which was subsequently blocked by [[conservatives]].<ref>http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200802/POL20080225a.html</ref>

Obama did support and co-sponsor a bill championed by [[Tom Coburn]] and known as the Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006, which was signed into law by President [[George W. Bush]] on Sept. 9, 2006. This law created a website that will list the federal government's grants and contracts.<ref> http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/09/20060926.html</ref>

Between Jan 13, 2007 and March 13, 2008, Sen. Obama has sponsored 120 mostly [[liberal]] resolutions and bills in the Senate.<ref>http://thomas.loc.gov/</ref> His supporters cite the following less liberal examples, but this list is not representative:{{fact}}

*S.117 : A bill to amend titles 10 and 38, United States Code, to improve benefits and services for members of the Armed Forces, veterans of the Global War on Terrorism, and other veterans, to require reports on the effects of the Global War on Terrorism, and for other purposes.

*S.133 : A bill to promote the national security and stability of the economy of the United States by reducing the dependence of the United States on oil through the use of alternative fuels and new technology, and for other purposes.

*S.453 : A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.

*S.713 : A bill to ensure dignity in care for members of the Armed Forces recovering from injuries.

=== Accomplishments while serving on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee ===

In February 2008, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee approved Obama's proposal on a new strategy to reduce poverty throughout the world.

Obama worked with Sen. Lugar writing legislation aimed at improving conventional and nuclear non-proliferation efforts. This legislation was signed by [[George W. Bush|President Bush]] in January 2008.

In June 2007 the Senate passed his resolution condemning violence by the [[Zimbabwe]] government. It also passed legislation co-sponsored by Obama that financed a Special Court for Sierra Leone to prosecute former [[Liberia | Liberian]] President [[Charles Taylor]]. <ref> http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/02/26/obamas_senate_foreign_relations_work/ </ref>

==Presidential campaign==
[[Image:obama.jpg|thumb|right|Senator Barack Obama]]
Senator Obama began his candidacy for President of the United States on February 10, 2007, in Springfield, Illinois. His announcement speech largely avoided specific campaign issues and focused on his general political message of hope for the future. It also attempted to strongly invoke the memory of Abraham Lincoln and his "House Divided" speech.<ref>[http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/10/obama.president/index.html "Obama declares he's running for president"] 11 February 2007, www.CNN.com </ref>

Obama's campaign has been financed largely by [[leftist]] donors opposed to the war and to the [[American]] military in general. Obama has encouraged this by refusing to wear the customary flag on his lapel during appearances (asserting that he would prefer his patriotism to be represented through his actions rather than an arbitrary symbol) and by other less-than-patriotic gestures and symbols, such as declining to put his hand over his heart during a patriotic recitation. In an appearance on May 16 where he addressed President Bush's statements that some politicians would prefer appeasing terrorists through negotiations, Senator Obama once again wore the flag pin as he did following 9-11.

By early April 2007, his campaign generated over $25 million from over 100,000 contributors. $23.5 million of that money will be available for the Democratic Primary.<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/05/us/politics/05obama.html Obama Shows His Strength in a Fund-Raising Feat on Par With Clinton], 4 April 2007, Jeff Zeleny and Patrick Healy,'' The New York Times''</ref> After the first Democratic presidential debate in Columbia, South Carolina, Obama's image as an "articulate" spokesman came into question after his failure to state right away that he would retaliate in case of further terrorist strikes against the United States.<ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/27/AR2007042702162.html?hpid=moreheadlines Clinton Campaign Tries to Keep Heat on Obama Over Debate Response], Dan Balz, ''Washington Post'' April 28, 2007.</ref><ref>Chicago Sun-Times,
[http://www.suntimes.com/news/sweet/362269,CST-NWS-sweet29.article 'I was a little nervous' at debate'], Lynn Sweet,
April 29, 2007,</ref>

Obama claimed to have visited 57 states while campaigning for president of the United States, which of course has only 50 states. From his remarks, he states that he has "one more to go" and stated he couldn't visit Hawaii and Alaska, indicating he meant to say, "forty-seven states".

During a fund raising event in Virginia in May 2007 Obama told donors,
{{Cquote|This week there was a tragedy in Kansas. Ten thousand people died. An entire town destroyed.<ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,271357,00.html Transcript: 'Special Report with Brit Hume,' May 9, 2007], retrieved from ''FOX News'', 06/13/07.</ref>}}

In reality, the tornado which touched down in Kansas cost the lives of nine people in the town of Greensburg, and twelve overall in Kansas.

By August it appeared Obama was running to be left off the ticket completely rather than the much ballyhooed Hillary/Obama ticket the [[mainstream media]] was pushing. After a series of ill-advised foreign policy statements, Obama was openly criticized as a lightweight even by liberals, in much the same vein as [[John Edwards]] and [[Dan Quayle]] had been depicted. First, Obama said he would have face-to-face meetings with two of Florida's most feared enemies, [[Fidel Castro]] and [[Hugo Chavez]]. Florida is a key state to any presidential ambitions. Then Obama claimed that he would be willing to invade the sovereign territory of a U.S. ally without prior consultation. Finally, Obama broke the cardinal rule of declaring he would not use nuclear weapons, removing the element of bluff U.S. Presidents had vitally depended upon throughout the [[Cold War]] era. The incidents all added up to a picture of a candidate ill-prepared and ill-advised, lacking in a basic understanding of the office of the presidency, and failing to surround himself with appointees able to make up for his deficiencies. However, Obama won the Iowa Democratic caucuses, pushing [[Hillary Clinton]] into third place, which gave him a serious chance of becoming the Democratic nominee.

On June 3rd, Barack Obama had received enough pledged delegates and the endorsement of superdelegates to be called the presumptive nominee of the [[Democratic Party]] by the [http://www.democrats.org Democratic National Committee]. The nomination became official when [[Hillary Clinton]] conceded on June 7th.

On June 5th, Obama spoke at Briston, Virginia- Heathcare Town Hall forum regarding Political Action Committees and his campaign. "Well, we’re here today because we know that if we’re going to make real progress, this time must be different. Throughout my career, in Illinois and the United States senate, I’ve worked to reduce the power of the special interests by leading the fight for ethics reform. I’ve sent a strong signal in this campaign by refusing the contributions of registered federal lobbyists and PACs. And today, I’m announcing that going forward, the Democratic National Committee will uphold the same standard and won’t take another dime from Washington lobbyists or special interest PACs. They do not fund my campaign. They will not fund our party. And they will not drown out the voices of the American people when I’m President of the United States."

On June 6th, an [[AP]] article <ref>[http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/D/DEMOCRATS_MONEY?SITE=KING&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT Transcript: 'Democratic Party returns lobbyist, PAC money ,' June 6, 2008]</ref> presents the rules for lobbyist donations to the DNC and for the Presidential nominee. Obama does accept money from lobbyists who do not do business with the federal government and he also accepts money from spouses and family members of lobbyists. And the DNC ban is also not retroactive, which means the DNC will keep lobbyist and PAC contributions it received earlier in the election cycle. Retroactive period being the date Barack Obama started his campaign, February 10, 2007. The DNC possibly the day after the November 2006 Congressional elections until June 5th, 2008. In addition, Barack Obama's ban does not apply to the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee nor to the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee. Unlike [[John McCain]], Barack Obama has not disclosed the lobbyists working in his campaign.

== Positions and Qualifications ==
Obama is [[pro-abortion]]. Obama said "the first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act".<ref>[http://christiannewswire.com/news/560716251.html]</ref> That bill "would invalidate virtually all state and federal limitations on abortion, and would make partial-birth abortion legal again." <ref>[http://www.lifenews.com/nat3961.html], http://www.lifenews.com/nat3961.html, Pro-Life Voters Must Work Overtime to Stop Pro-Abortion Barack Obama, June 4, 2008</ref>
The leading abortion providers and PAC supporters have wholeheartedly endorsed Barack Obama. The National Abortion Rights Action League [[NARAL]] has given Barack a 100% rating for his efforts in Congress 2005, 2006 and 2007 <ref>http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/elections/statements/obama.html</ref>. EMILY's List, a political action committee that funds female candidates who support abortion rights backs Barack Obama<ref> [http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/06/emilys_list_bac.html],EMILY's List backs Obama, June 6,2008</ref> The nation's largest abortion business, Planned Parenthood has begun the process necessary to endorse pro-abortion presidential candidate Barack Obama. <ref>[http://www.lifenews.com/nat3971.html], http://www.lifenews.com/nat3971.html, Planned Parenthood Begins Process to Endorse Pro-Abortion Barack Obama, June 10,2008</ref>The board of directors of the pro-abortion group's political operation met on Friday June 6, 2008 and unanimously voted to recommend an endorsement for Obama. Obama has steadfastly advocated support for partial birth abortion as an Illinois legislator. Baracks wife, Michelle Obama, wrote a fundraising letter<ref>[http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2006/10/post_5.php], http://www.prolifeblogs.com/articles/archives/2006/10/post_5.php, February 17,2004</ref> in support of partial birth abortion and against the proposed ban. Barack voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act to give a child who survived an abortion procedure life support healthcare. Obama wanted the life terminated even if he or she survived outside the mother's womb.<ref>[http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000007034.cfm], http://www.citizenlink.org/content/A000007034.cfm, Obama Blocked Born Alive Infant Protection Act</ref> With Obama no longer in the state Senate, the Born Alive legislation passed in 2005.

In the context of sex, he quipped about his daughters, <ref>http://michellemalkin.com/2008/03/30/sunday-meditation-obama-and-the-punishment-of-unborn-life/</ref>{{QuoteBox|"if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."}} Obama makes it clear if his daughters had an unplanned pregnancy, he would support terminating the life of his grandchild and it is undeniable that Michelle Obama agrees with that decision.

Obama, having been asked about his associations with William Ayers, an unrepentant terrorist, he explained that the views of his associates are not necessarily his own. He then compared his friendship with Ayers whose actions led to the loss of a life to his friendship with pro-life doctor and representative Tom Coburn<ref>[http://www.lifenews.com/nat3894.html]http://www.lifenews.com/nat3894.html, LifeNews.com, April 25,2008</ref>
Obama explained that his friendship with Ayers, shouldn't be construed as implying he endorsed the terrorist-like tactics Ayers used to drive home his political point. Barack Obama brought up the pro-life colleague to make the dubious comparison that he's friends with other people who take "extreme" positions or would use terrorist tactics.
"The fact is, is that I'm also friendly with Tom Coburn, one of the most conservative Republicans in the United States Senate, who during his campaign once said that it might be appropriate to apply the death penalty to those who carried out abortions"

Obama has no military or executive experience and little foreign policy experience.<ref>"Fresh doubts over Barack Obama's foreign policy credentials were expressed on both sides of the Atlantic last night, after it emerged that he had made only one brief official visit to London – and none elsewhere in Western Europe or Latin America. ... Mr. Obama had failed to convene a single policy meeting of the Senate European subcommittee, of which he is chairman."[http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3080794.ece]</ref> Yet he is the favorite of the leftist attack site "MoveOn.org" for the [[Democratic]] nomination for [[President of the United States]] in the [[2008 Presidential Election|2008 election]],<ref>MoveOn.org reportedly favored Obama by 70-30% over Clinton. [http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/moveonorg_obama.html]</ref> campaigning to the left of [[Hillary Clinton]].<ref>For example, Obama promised not to use nuclear weapons against terrorists, a promise Hillary Clinton refused to make. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/02/AR2007080202288.html]</ref>

He has no clear personal achievement that cannot be explained as the likely result of [[affirmative action]]. Some examples border on the absurd: Obama has no background in [[physics]], yet it is claimed that "Obama analyzed and integrated [[Albert Einstein|Einstein]]'s [[theory of relativity]], the [[Heisenberg uncertainty principle]], as well as the concept of curved space as an alternative to [[gravity]], for a Law Review article that Tribe, for whom Obama worked as a research assistant, wrote titled, 'The Curvature of Constitutional Space'." <ref>http://cbs2chicago.com/politics/barack.obama.harvard.2.334825.html</ref> Obama's "research" for Constitutional Law Professor Tribe on this article also raises issues about preferences, as Obama had not yet even completed any law school courses<ref>Obama did not start his second year of law school until September 1989, the earliest he could have taken constitutional law, yet this article must have been written, submitted and accepted prior to that time to be published in the November 1989 issue of the Law Review.</ref> on the [[Constitution]].<ref>The liberal Professor Tribe saw the best law students for several decades, yet insisted that Obama was the "best student I ever had" and the "most exciting research assistant." [http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071114/NEWS01/711140429/1217/NEWS98]</ref>

Throughout his career, Obama repeatedly ducked controversial stands in an apparent attempt to make it easier to be elected to higher office. In example, as a state senator in [[Illinois]], he voted "present" rather than "aye" or "nay" nearly an astounding 130 times.<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html</ref> During that same period, he was planning to run for the [[House of Representatives]], which was unsuccessful, and then for [[U.S. Senate]], which was successful after his opponent Jack Ryan, a millionaire school teacher, was smeared with a court-ordered disclosure of confidential divorce records that both he and his ex-wife wanted to remain sealed. A newspaper that favored Obama took the unusual step of suing to force the confidential divorce information to become public, and a California judge opened the records at a pivotal time in the campaign.<ref>http://www.nbc5.com/politics/2898641/detail.html</ref><ref>http://www.nbc5.com/news/3289561/detail.html</ref><ref>http://www.nbc5.com/politics/3444371/detail.html</ref>

Barack Obama is often praised for his speeches, except when he is not able to read them from a [[teleprompter]]. "Shorn of his Teleprompter, we saw a different Obama. His delivery was halting and unsure. ... The prepared text for his remarks, as released on his website, sounded a lot like a typical Obama speech. ... [But with] no Teleprompter signaling the prepared text, Obama failed to deliver the speech in his characteristically flawless fashion."<ref>http://www.weeklystandard.com/content/public/articles/000/000/014/728ofzey.asp</ref> The [[New York Times]] noted that "Mr. Obama excels at inspirational speeches read from a teleprompter before television cameras, critics have noted, but many of his other speeches on the campaign trail have failed to electrify."<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/fashion/20speechwriter.html?_r=2&ex=1358485200&en=bb179297e5f61acb&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&oref=slogin&oref=slogin</ref> When Obama ridiculed [[Hillary Clinton]] for being like [[Annie Oakley]], it is apparent that he was not writing his own speeches.<ref>"Some Obama adviser probably earned his or her dollars for that cut," the USA Today wrote. [http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/columnist/raasch/2008-04-17-2008-04-17-raasch_N.htm]</ref>

Obama often makes reference to his "two decades of experience" in public service work. During most of that time he claims experience, he was either going to school, working for a law firm, writing a book and community organizing.

== Political views ==
Obama's political views have been subjected to controversy even before he put himself forward as a presidential candidate. Former House majority leader [[Tom DeLay]] has described Obama's record in the Illinois Senate as that of a [[Communism|“Marxist leftist".]]<ref>[http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_121306/content/stop_the_tape.guest.html|Sexy Rock Star Obama Whines About His Ears], RushLimbaugh.com, December 13 2006</ref> In May 2007, Obama (and Sen. Hillary Clinton) voted against funding the Iraq War for the first time.<ref>[http://uspolitics.about.com/od/legislatio1/a/HR2206.htm HR 2206 - Emergency Appropriations], Kathy Gill, Your Guide to U.S. Politics: Current Events. May 26 2007.</ref><ref>[http://more.gov.mtopgroup.com/2007/05/votes-hr-2206-iraq-supplemental.html Votes - H.R. 2206: Iraq Supplemental], May 28, 2007. Retrieved from Deeper Inside the Mountain, June 4, 2007.</ref>

Obama's views on [[gun control]] is focused on an opinion article in the [[Wall Street Journal]]:<ref>David Kopel, "The Democrats and Gun Control," Wall St.J., Page A19, April 17, 2008 [http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB120839466717921537-lMyQjAxMDI4MDE4NzMxOTc0Wj.html]</ref>

:As a state senate candidate in 1996, Mr. Obama endorsed a complete ban on all handguns in a questionnaire. The Obama campaign has claimed he "never saw or approved the questionnaire," and that an aide filled it out incorrectly. But a few weeks ago, Politico.com found an amended version of the questionnaire. It included material added in Mr. Obama's handwriting.

Obama has said, "Doing the Lord's work is a thread that runs through our politics since the very beginning," and "it puts the lie to the notion that [[separation of church and state]] in America means somehow that faith should have no role in public life."<ref>[http://www.siouxcityjournal.com/articles/2007/06/17/news/iowa/8db7c1a17d2b51f9862572fd000fc9f4.txt Obama says religion has place in politics], By Todd Dorman, ''Sioux City Journal'', June 18, 2007.</ref>

Nonetheless, he asserted that elements of [[sex education]] should be taught in kindergarten.<ref>"Barack Obama reaffirmed to [[Planned Parenthood]] this week that he believes elements of sex education should begin in kindergarten." [http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=3395856 (ABC News)] July 20, 2007 </ref>

Obama spoke at the May 1, 2006, illegal immigration march in Chicago.<ref>http://nomoreblather.com/barack-obama-and-the-immigration-marches Immigration marches</ref>

::''We are hungry for change!'' S.C. January 26, 2008.

Barack Obama in his short stint as Senator of Illinois, has made clear his opposition to the [[U.S. Military]] in policy and in rhetoric. Obama has spent much energy to remind America of the war that should have never been waged and that we should not be there at all, in any way. In 2002, as an unknown Chicago representative to the state of Illinois, he declared his opposition to the Iraqi conflict. At the time, America was united in the stance against terrorism and the prospects of a rogue enemy with WMD worried the United States. Since elected to Congress, he voted against the Emergency War Supplemental. Obama did not oppose his party debating the bill long past the timeframe requested. This action directly affects troop deployment in combat zones. Obama has repeatedly called for the return of troops in Iraq. Barack Obama has a no confidence vote for the 'Surge' before the measure was put forth by General Petraus to Congress. Obama would not denounce MoveOn.org's slander NY Times advertising against the General.

Senator Obama often refers to the office that he seeks, without the proper respect of those that came before him. When talking of the President, he frequently refuses to call him President George Bush or even Mr. George Bush. Obama disrespectfully calls him 'George Bush'.
* "I am happy to have a debate with John McCain and George Bush about foreign policy," Obama said <ref>[http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/16/obama.bush.mccain/], CNN Obama blasts Bush McCain, May 16, 2008</ref>
* "For all his talk about independence, the centerpiece of John McCain's economic plan amounts to a full-throated endorsement of George Bush's policies," <ref>[http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/10/obama_takes_the_offensive_vs_mccain/] Boston Globe Obama takes offensive vs. McCain, June 10, 2008</ref>
* "George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists." <ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7403386.stm], BBC Obama attacks Bush over Iran , May 15, 2008</ref>

== Foreign policy experience ==

In [[Russia]] and the former Soviet republics, he met with representatives of the International Republican Institute and National Democratic Institute to discuss democracy in the former Soviet republics. He also met with Russian military officials and visited several nuclear and biological weapons destruction sites in Russia, [[Ukraine]], and [[Azerbaijan]] with Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Richard Lugar (R-IN). On the same tour, he visited London, UK, and met with [[Tony Blair]], sitting UK Prime Minister.<ref>http://obama.senate.gov/press/050823-obama_to_visit/</ref>

Obama visited South Africa, Kenya, Ethiopia, Djibouti, and Chad; he discussed his tour of Robben Island prison, met with U.S. troops, and visited refugee camps of the people fleeing Darfur. He also addressed Africa's growing [[AIDS]] epidemic. <ref>http://obama.senate.gov/podcast/060906-090606_africa_t/</ref>

During a ten-day-long tour of the Middle East, he talked with government leaders in Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, Jordan, and Israel. <ref> http://obama.senate.gov/news/060113-obama_wraps_up/</ref>

==Religious affiliations==

Obama and his wife (reared a Baptist) have been active members since 1988 at the Trinity [[United Church of Christ]]<ref>http://www.tucc.org/about.htm</ref> in Chicago. A church that embraces black liberation theology and its emphasis on empowering oppressed groups against establishment forces. Merging Marxism with Christian Gospel may show the way to a better tomorrow. This denomination was the first in America to ordain gays, women and blacks as ministers.<ref>[http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/31079.html], http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/31079.html, Obama's church pushes controversial doctrines, March 20, 2008</ref> According to his sister, Obama was baptized at this church the same year.<ref>[http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/30/america/30obama.php?page=2 http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/30/america/30obama.php?page=2]</ref> Obama describes his conversion in ''The Audacity of Hope''. The title of this book is taken from one of Pastor Wright's sermons.
In April 2008, Obama disavowed Pastor Wright's views. In May 2008, Obama left his church. His response blames the media and not the rhetoric on display <ref>[http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/31/obama-resigns-church-membership-in-chicago/], Obama Drops Church Membership in Chicago, may 31, 2008</ref>{{QuoteBox|“It’s not fair to the other members of the church who seek to worship in peace..."}} Wright had been reported as recently making inflammatory comments in his sermons such as "God damn America" and describing the September 11th attacks, he said "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."<ref>[ http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788 Obama's Pastor: God Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11]</ref> In addition, Rev. Wright blamed America saying "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic."

In late May 2008, Obama left that church. Obama and his family state that they maintain their faith in Christianity.<ref>[http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/11/12/obama_has_never_been_a_muslim_1.php]</ref> Reasons being not for the rhetoric on display but for the media's assault on the congregation. “It’s not fair to the other members of the church who seek to worship in peace.."<ref>[http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/31/obama-resigns-church-membership-in-chicago/], http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/31/obama-resigns-church-membership-in-chicago/, Obama Drops Church Membership in Chicago, May 31, 2008</ref>

[[Image:Barack Obama Jeremiah Wright.jpg|thumb|Barack Obama and Jeremiah Wright.]]

[[Daniel Pipes]] claims that Obama was raised a [[Muslim]] because he attended classes on the Koran while attending a Muslim school.<ref>[http://www.danielpipes.org/article/5286 Was Barack Obama a Muslim</ref> Obama did attend a school administrated by Muslims but [[CNN]] reports that it was a non-religious public school attended by students of many faiths, not a [[madrassa]].<ref>http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/01/22/obama.madrassa/</ref>

{{QuoteBox|In Indonesia, I'd spent 2 years at a Muslim school, 2 years at a Catholic school. In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies. In the Catholic school, when it came time to pray, I'd pretend to close my eyes, then peek around the room. Nothing happened. No angels descended. Just a parched old nun and 30 brown children, muttering words. Sometimes the nun would catch me, and her stern look would force my lids back shut. But that didn't change how I felt inside."}}<ref>Dreams from My Father, by Barack Obama, p.142 Aug 1, 1996 </ref>

Obama has described his upbringing as occurring in a non-religious environment.

{{QuoteBox|In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist that she would become; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well. Moreover, as a child I rarely came in contact with those who might offer a substantially different view of faith. My father was almost entirely absent from my childhood, having been divorced from my mother when I was 2 years old; in any event, although my father had been raised a Muslim, by the time he met my mother he was a confirmed atheist, thinking religion to be so much superstition.

And yet for all her professed secularism, my mother was in many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I've ever known. She had an unswerving instinct for kindness, charity, and love, and spent much of her life acting on that instinct, sometimes to her detriment. Without the help of religious texts or outside authorities, she worked mightily to instill in me the values that many Americans learn in Sunday school: honesty, empathy, discipline, delayed gratification, and hard work. She raged at poverty and injustice.}}<ref>[http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1546579-4,00.html My Spiritual Journey] Time Magazine, October 2006</ref>

== Books ==

* ''Dreams from My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance.''
* ''The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream.''
* ''Barack Obama in His Own Words.'' (B. Obama and Lisa Rogak)

==Published criticism==
On April 11, 2007, staff writers of ''The Boston Globe'' reported the criticisms of several black commentators regarding Obama's apparent hesitation to join the race to condemn acclaimed radio personality [[Don Imus]],<ref>[http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/11/obamas_silence_on_imus_alarms_some_blacks/ Obama's silence on Imus alarms some blacks], Rick Klein and Joseph Williams, ''The Boston Globe'', April 11, 2007.</ref> who made a racially insensitive remark<ref>[http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNews/idUSN1237895620070412|title=Furor over Imus puts heat on other broadcasters], Daniel Trotta, Reuters, 2007-04-12.</ref> on the air during the April 4 broadcast. Obama did not comment on Imus's remarks until well after prominent civil rights leaders [[Al Sharpton]] and [[Jesse Jackson]] had called Imus to account and after Imus was suspended by MSNBC and CBS Radio. Obama later weighed in on April 10 by saying, "The comments of Don Imus were divisive, hurtful, and offensive to Americans of all backgrounds." 

The ''Globe'' reported that Obama's perceived delay in addressing Don Imus's remarks was described by Melissa Harris Lacewell, a professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University, as "miss[ing] an opportunity to prove himself to blacks and white liberals who would have wanted Obama take the lead in denouncing Imus."<ref>[http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/04/11/obamas_silence_on_imus_alarms_some_blacks/ Obama's silence on Imus alarms some blacks], Rick Klein and Joseph Williams, ''The Boston Globe'', April 11, 2007.</ref><ref>[http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2007/04/obama_race_and_the_election.html Obama, Race, and The Election,] ''Real Clear Politics.com''</ref>

In June 2007 the ''Chicago Sun-Times'' reported Obama had actually received nearly three times more campaign cash from indicted slum landlord Tony Rezko<ref>[http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/353829,CST-NWS-rez23.article Barack Obama and his slumlord patron], Tim Novak, Chicago Sun-Times, April 23, 2007.</ref> and his associates than Obama has publicly acknowledged.<ref>[http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/432197,CST-NWS-obama18.article Rezko cash triple what Obama says], Chris Fusco and Tim Novak, ''Chicago Sun-Times'', June 18, 2007.</ref>

Obama falsely claimed that he was a constitutional law professor, when in actuality he merely held the position of "Senior Lecturer."<ref>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/30/politics/p132303D74.DTL&type=politics</ref><ref>http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4238307</ref><ref>Obama was on the faculty at the University of Chicago from 1992 to 2004.[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/media/index.html]</ref>

Obama wore an American flag lapel pin after [[9/11]], but later stopped wearing it without adequate explanation.<ref>http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/when_did_obama_stop_wearing_a.html</ref> Presumably it would have hurt him with anti-military campaign donors.<ref>In 2007, at critical moments in his campaign for the nomination, Obama had difficulties securing the support of anti-war activists. [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/04/politics/main2645861.shtml]</ref>

In his memoirs, Obama claimed a ''[[Life]]'' magazine article about a man who had become ill after trying to lighten his skin color by chemical means had a major impact on him. In fact, ''Life'' never published any such article.<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/26/AR2007032601583.html</ref><ref>"Then there's the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don't exist, say the magazine's own historians." [http://newsbusters.org/node/11641]</ref>

Obama falsely claimed that he "had an uncle who was one of the — who was part of the first American troops to go into [[Auschwitz]] and liberate the [[concentration camp]]s. And the story in our family was that when he came home, he just went up into the attic and he didn't leave the house for six months."<ref>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,359061,00.html</ref> In fact, the Soviet army liberated Auschwitz. Embarrassed, the Obama campaign later admitted that Obama was wrong, and claimed he should have said that Obama's great-uncle helped liberate a subcamp of Buchenwald.<ref>http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/27/obamas_uncle_and_the_liberatio.html#more
Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton later claimed that Obama's great-uncle "served in the 89th Infantry Division that Liberated Ohrdruf, a Subcamp of Buchenwald, the First Camp Liberated by Americans, on April 4, 1945." Given that Obama misrepresented what happened, one can also wonder about his story that his relative went into the attic and did not leave his house for six months afterwards.</ref>

Obama said that "[t]here was something stirring across the country because of what happened in Selma, [[Alabama]], because some folks are willing to march across a bridge. So they got together and Barack Obama Jr. was born." In fact, Obama was born in 1961, and the Selma march took place in 1965.<ref>http://michellemalkin.com/2008/05/21/barack-obama-gaffe-machine/</ref>

Obama states that he has consistently opposed the [[Iraq War]] since 2002, a claim and position that former President [[Bill Clinton]] criticized as "the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."<ref>http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN1131516320080111</ref>

Executive vice president Wayne LaPierre of the [[NRA]] accuses Barack Obama of "mouthing pro-Second amendment words and pandering to gun owners" on the campaign trail.<ref>[http://www.gopusa.com/news/2008/may/0514_nra_mccain.shtml], http://www.gopusa.com/news/2008/may/0514_nra_mccain.shtml, NRA chief stresses common ground with McCain, Associated Press, May 14, 2008</ref>

[[McCain]] Aide Says Obama Has Sept. 10 Mind-Set "an extremely dangerous and extremely naive approach toward terrorism" <ref>[http://www.newsmax.com/politics/mccain_obama/2008/06/17/105265.html], AP McCain Aide Says Obama Has Sept. 10 Mind-Set, June 17, 2008</ref>

==See also==
*[[Previous Breaking News/Barack Obama|Articles about '''Barack Obama''' from previous "Breaking News"]]

==Further reading==
*[[Peter Hitchens|Hitchens, Peter]] [http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=511901&in_page_id=1811 ''The Black Kennedy: But does anyone know the real Barack Obama?''] [[Daily Mail]]. Accessed 4 February 2008.

==Sources==

*[http://obama.senate.gov/about/ Official Senate Website]
*[http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/pfd2005/N00009638_2005.pdf Barack Obama Personal Financial Disclosures Summary: 2005], retrieved from opensecrets.org 17 June 2007.
*[http://bioguide.congress.gov/scripts/biodisplay.pl?index=O000167 Biographical Directory of the United States Congress]
*[http://www.law.uchicago.edu/faculty/obama/cv.html University of Chicago Law School] Faculty Listing
*[http://www.biography.com/search/article.do?id=12782369 Barack Obama Biography] from Biography.com
*[http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/o/barack_obama/index.html?inline=nyt-per New York Times Topics, Barack Obama]
*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=zUdjhKbImwE Documentary on Barack Hussein Obama]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Obama, Barrack}}

{{2008 presidential candidates}}

[[Category:United States Senators]]
[[Category:Democratic Party]]

Talk:Orthodox Church

2008-06-18T00:23:47Z

Dchall1: /* Proposed changes */ additional thoughts

Talk:Orthodox Church

2008-06-18T00:22:54Z

Dchall1: /* Proposed changes */ re

PRT

2008-06-18T00:16:15Z

Dchall1: creating redirect to popular acronym

#REDIRECT [[Provincial Reconstruction Teams]]

Provincial Reconstruction Teams

2008-06-18T00:15:33Z

Dchall1: copyedit

[[Image:PRTsphoto.jpg‎|thumb|280px|]]
'''Provincial Reconstruction Teams''' (PRTs) are the structured stabilization teams currently being used in [[Iraq]] and [[Afghanistan]] by [[United States]] and [[NATO]] troops.

== History ==

In 2002 the United States developed the concept of PRTs (Provincial Reconstruction Teams) for use in NATO's mission in Afghanistan, the [[International Security Afghanistan Force]]. The US goal was to extend the capabilities of ISAF through PRTs, without having to deploy additional troops.<ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref>

PRT successes in Afghanistan, combined with Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad's move from Afghanistan to Iraq, led the United States to use the new stabilization structure in Iraq. Currently the United States is expanding its mission to increase its number of PRTs involved in the reconstruction of Iraq. The United States Assistant Secretary of Defense for Stability Operations, [[Michael J. Mcnerney]], stated that "Provincial Reconstruction Teams have the potential to become a model for future stabilization and reconstruction operations." <ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref> Current peace operations in [[Haiti]], [[Liberia]], and a possible future mission in [[Darfur]] may follow this reformed structure.<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

== Structure ==

Secretary of State [[Condoleezza Rice]] stated in a press conference in 2007 that, “The logic behind PRTs is simple. Success in Iraq relies on more than military efforts; it requires robust political and economic progress."<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref>
Afghanistan PRTs consist of approximately three representatives from civilian agencies of the United States, coordinating their activities with 60 to 100 soldiers. Each of the thirteen groups covers the reconstruction and security efforts of a single province. Afghan PRTs tend to concentrate their activities on rebuilding and reconstruction projects, due to the dilapidated state of the country's infrastructure.

In Iraq, PRTs are either paired or embedded. A paired PRT consists of a slightly larger complement of civilian agency representatives, who interface largely with province-level Iraqi government representatives. An embedded PRT is considerably smaller, and is co-located on a Brigade Combat Team's Forward Operating Base. Embedded PRTs work with sub-provincial and local levels of government. Both embedded and paired PRTs have focused their work on increasing the governance capacity of Iraq's leaders, rather than taking part in individual reconstruction projects.

President Bush praised this part of PRT's when he stated in June 2007 that, “These teams bring together military and civilian experts to help local Iraqi communities pursue reconciliation, strengthen the moderates, and speed the transition to Iraqi self-reliance.” This is seen as one of the great achievements of the PRT structure. A report by the United States Institute of Peace’s Afghanistan Experience Project found that, "Provincial Reconstruction Teams fare well in reasonably permissive environments, where even a small, lightly-armed military force can make a meaningful contribution to regional security."<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref> The use of PRTs in Afghanistan has shown that they are very cost effective structure.<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

==Afghanistan==

The use of PRTs in [[Afghanistan]] was the building block and testing ground of the operation. Currently there are over 30 PRTs operating in Afghanistan.<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref> Although criticized for having a vague mandate and limited resources, PRTs have been generally seen as a success with [[NATO]]'s mission in Afghanistan. <ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref>

===PRTs operating in Afghanistan===

*Asadabad (USA)
*Bamian (New Zealand)
*Chagcharan (Lithuania)
*Faizabad (Germany)
*Farah (USA)
*Gardez (USA)
*Ghazni (USA)
*Heart (Italy)
*Jalalabad (USA)
*Kandahar (USA)
*Khowst (USA)
*Kondoz (USA)
*Lashkar Gah (USA)
*Maimana (UK)
*Mazar-e-Sharif (USA)
*Mehtlaram (USA)
*Parwan (USA)
*Pul-i-Khumri (Netherlands)
*Qalat (USA)
*Qal-i-Naw (Spain)
*Sharan (USA)
*Tirin Khowt(USA) <ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

==Iraq==

The United States stabilization mission in [[Iraq]] is using the PRT structure. This structure is being increased as part of the United States increase of troops in Iraq.<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref> President Bush stated that, “[The United States] will double the number of provincial reconstruction teams."<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref>

== References ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Military]]
[[Category:NATO]]

Provincial Reconstruction Teams

2008-06-18T00:15:09Z

Dchall1: /* Afghanistan */ copyedit

[[Image:PRTsphoto.jpg‎|thumb|280px|]]
'''Provincial Reconstruction Teams''' (PRT's) are the structured stabilization teams currently being used in [[Iraq]] and [[Afghanistan]] by [[United States]] and [[NATO]] troops.

== History ==

In 2002 the United States developed the concept of PRTs (Provincial Reconstruction Teams) for use in NATO's mission in Afghanistan, the [[International Security Afghanistan Force]]. The US goal was to extend the capabilities of ISAF through PRTs, without having to deploy additional troops.<ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref>

PRT successes in Afghanistan, combined with Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad's move from Afghanistan to Iraq, led the United States to use the new stabilization structure in Iraq. Currently the United States is expanding its mission to increase its number of PRTs involved in the reconstruction of Iraq. The United States Assistant Secretary of Defense for Stability Operations, [[Michael J. Mcnerney]], stated that "Provincial Reconstruction Teams have the potential to become a model for future stabilization and reconstruction operations." <ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref> Current peace operations in [[Haiti]], [[Liberia]], and a possible future mission in [[Darfur]] may follow this reformed structure.<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

== Structure ==

Secretary of State [[Condoleezza Rice]] stated in a press conference in 2007 that, “The logic behind PRTs is simple. Success in Iraq relies on more than military efforts; it requires robust political and economic progress."<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref>
Afghanistan PRTs consist of approximately three representatives from civilian agencies of the United States, coordinating their activities with 60 to 100 soldiers. Each of the thirteen groups covers the reconstruction and security efforts of a single province. Afghan PRTs tend to concentrate their activities on rebuilding and reconstruction projects, due to the dilapidated state of the country's infrastructure.

In Iraq, PRTs are either paired or embedded. A paired PRT consists of a slightly larger complement of civilian agency representatives, who interface largely with province-level Iraqi government representatives. An embedded PRT is considerably smaller, and is co-located on a Brigade Combat Team's Forward Operating Base. Embedded PRTs work with sub-provincial and local levels of government. Both embedded and paired PRTs have focused their work on increasing the governance capacity of Iraq's leaders, rather than taking part in individual reconstruction projects.

President Bush praised this part of PRT's when he stated in June 2007 that, “These teams bring together military and civilian experts to help local Iraqi communities pursue reconciliation, strengthen the moderates, and speed the transition to Iraqi self-reliance.” This is seen as one of the great achievements of the PRT structure. A report by the United States Institute of Peace’s Afghanistan Experience Project found that, "Provincial Reconstruction Teams fare well in reasonably permissive environments, where even a small, lightly-armed military force can make a meaningful contribution to regional security."<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref> The use of PRTs in Afghanistan has shown that they are very cost effective structure.<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

==Afghanistan==

The use of PRTs in [[Afghanistan]] was the building block and testing ground of the operation. Currently there are over 30 PRTs operating in Afghanistan.<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref> Although criticized for having a vague mandate and limited resources, PRTs have been generally seen as a success with [[NATO]]'s mission in Afghanistan. <ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref>

===PRTs operating in Afghanistan===

*Asadabad (USA)
*Bamian (New Zealand)
*Chagcharan (Lithuania)
*Faizabad (Germany)
*Farah (USA)
*Gardez (USA)
*Ghazni (USA)
*Heart (Italy)
*Jalalabad (USA)
*Kandahar (USA)
*Khowst (USA)
*Kondoz (USA)
*Lashkar Gah (USA)
*Maimana (UK)
*Mazar-e-Sharif (USA)
*Mehtlaram (USA)
*Parwan (USA)
*Pul-i-Khumri (Netherlands)
*Qalat (USA)
*Qal-i-Naw (Spain)
*Sharan (USA)
*Tirin Khowt(USA) <ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

==Iraq==

The United States stabilization mission in [[Iraq]] is using the PRT structure. This structure is being increased as part of the United States increase of troops in Iraq.<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref> President Bush stated that, “[The United States] will double the number of provincial reconstruction teams."<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref>

== References ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Military]]
[[Category:NATO]]

Provincial Reconstruction Teams

2008-06-18T00:14:30Z

Dchall1: /* History */ corrected language

[[Image:PRTsphoto.jpg‎|thumb|280px|]]
'''Provincial Reconstruction Teams''' (PRT's) are the structured stabilization teams currently being used in [[Iraq]] and [[Afghanistan]] by [[United States]] and [[NATO]] troops.

== History ==

In 2002 the United States developed the concept of PRTs (Provincial Reconstruction Teams) for use in NATO's mission in Afghanistan, the [[International Security Afghanistan Force]]. The US goal was to extend the capabilities of ISAF through PRTs, without having to deploy additional troops.<ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref>

PRT successes in Afghanistan, combined with Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad's move from Afghanistan to Iraq, led the United States to use the new stabilization structure in Iraq. Currently the United States is expanding its mission to increase its number of PRTs involved in the reconstruction of Iraq. The United States Assistant Secretary of Defense for Stability Operations, [[Michael J. Mcnerney]], stated that "Provincial Reconstruction Teams have the potential to become a model for future stabilization and reconstruction operations." <ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref> Current peace operations in [[Haiti]], [[Liberia]], and a possible future mission in [[Darfur]] may follow this reformed structure.<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

== Structure ==

Secretary of State [[Condoleezza Rice]] stated in a press conference in 2007 that, “The logic behind PRTs is simple. Success in Iraq relies on more than military efforts; it requires robust political and economic progress."<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref>
Afghanistan PRTs consist of approximately three representatives from civilian agencies of the United States, coordinating their activities with 60 to 100 soldiers. Each of the thirteen groups covers the reconstruction and security efforts of a single province. Afghan PRTs tend to concentrate their activities on rebuilding and reconstruction projects, due to the dilapidated state of the country's infrastructure.

In Iraq, PRTs are either paired or embedded. A paired PRT consists of a slightly larger complement of civilian agency representatives, who interface largely with province-level Iraqi government representatives. An embedded PRT is considerably smaller, and is co-located on a Brigade Combat Team's Forward Operating Base. Embedded PRTs work with sub-provincial and local levels of government. Both embedded and paired PRTs have focused their work on increasing the governance capacity of Iraq's leaders, rather than taking part in individual reconstruction projects.

President Bush praised this part of PRT's when he stated in June 2007 that, “These teams bring together military and civilian experts to help local Iraqi communities pursue reconciliation, strengthen the moderates, and speed the transition to Iraqi self-reliance.” This is seen as one of the great achievements of the PRT structure. A report by the United States Institute of Peace’s Afghanistan Experience Project found that, "Provincial Reconstruction Teams fare well in reasonably permissive environments, where even a small, lightly-armed military force can make a meaningful contribution to regional security."<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref> The use of PRTs in Afghanistan has shown that they are very cost effective structure.<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

==Afghanistan==

The use of PRT's in [[Afghanistan]] was the building block and testing ground of the operation. Currently there are over 30 PRT's operating in Afghanistan.<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref> Although criticized for having a vague mandate,and too limited resources, PRT's have been generally seen as a success with [[NATO]]'s mission in Afghanistan. <ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref>

===PRTs operating in Afghanistan===

*Asadabad (USA)
*Bamian (New Zealand)
*Chagcharan (Lithuania)
*Faizabad (Germany)
*Farah (USA)
*Gardez (USA)
*Ghazni (USA)
*Heart (Italy)
*Jalalabad (USA)
*Kandahar (USA)
*Khowst (USA)
*Kondoz (USA)
*Lashkar Gah (USA)
*Maimana (UK)
*Mazar-e-Sharif (USA)
*Mehtlaram (USA)
*Parwan (USA)
*Pul-i-Khumri (Netherlands)
*Qalat (USA)
*Qal-i-Naw (Spain)
*Sharan (USA)
*Tirin Khowt(USA) <ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

==Iraq==

The United States stabilization mission in [[Iraq]] is using the PRT structure. This structure is being increased as part of the United States increase of troops in Iraq.<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref> President Bush stated that, “[The United States] will double the number of provincial reconstruction teams."<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref>

== References ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Military]]
[[Category:NATO]]

Provincial Reconstruction Teams

2008-06-18T00:10:52Z

Dchall1: /* Structure */ corrections to structure

[[Image:PRTsphoto.jpg‎|thumb|280px|]]
'''Provincial Reconstruction Teams''' (PRT's) are the structured stabilization teams currently being used in [[Iraq]] and [[Afghanistan]] by [[United States]] and [[NATO]] troops.

== History ==

In 2002 the United States developed the concept of PRT's (Provincial Reconstruction Teams) for use in NATO's mission in Afghanistan, The [[International Security Afghanistan force]]. The United States goal was to restructure ISAF into PRT's without having to add additional troops. The restructuring worked, and although the structure has had trouble, improvements and progress are being made.<ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref>

PRT's successes in Afghanistan led the United States to use the new stabilization structure in Iraq. Currently the United States is expanding its mission to increase its amount of PRT's in the rebuilding of Iraq. The United States Assistant Secretary of Defense for Stability Operations, [[Michael J. Mcnerney]], stated that,"Provincial Reconstruction Teams have the potential to become a model for future stabilization and reconstruction operations." <ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref> Current peace operations in [[Haiti]], [[Liberia]], and a possible future mission in [[Darfur]] may follow this reformed structure.<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

== Structure ==

Secretary of State [[Condoleezza Rice]] stated in a press conference in 2007 that, “The logic behind PRTs is simple. Success in Iraq relies on more than military efforts; it requires robust political and economic progress."<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref>
Afghanistan PRTs consist of approximately three representatives from civilian agencies of the United States, coordinating their activities with 60 to 100 soldiers. Each of the thirteen groups covers the reconstruction and security efforts of a single province. Afghan PRTs tend to concentrate their activities on rebuilding and reconstruction projects, due to the dilapidated state of the country's infrastructure.

In Iraq, PRTs are either paired or embedded. A paired PRT consists of a slightly larger complement of civilian agency representatives, who interface largely with province-level Iraqi government representatives. An embedded PRT is considerably smaller, and is co-located on a Brigade Combat Team's Forward Operating Base. Embedded PRTs work with sub-provincial and local levels of government. Both embedded and paired PRTs have focused their work on increasing the governance capacity of Iraq's leaders, rather than taking part in individual reconstruction projects.

President Bush praised this part of PRT's when he stated in June 2007 that, “These teams bring together military and civilian experts to help local Iraqi communities pursue reconciliation, strengthen the moderates, and speed the transition to Iraqi self-reliance.” This is seen as one of the great achievements of the PRT structure. A report by the United States Institute of Peace’s Afghanistan Experience Project found that, "Provincial Reconstruction Teams fare well in reasonably permissive environments, where even a small, lightly-armed military force can make a meaningful contribution to regional security."<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref> The use of PRTs in Afghanistan has shown that they are very cost effective structure.<ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

==Afghanistan==

The use of PRT's in [[Afghanistan]] was the building block and testing ground of the operation. Currently there are over 30 PRT's operating in Afghanistan.<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref> Although criticized for having a vague mandate,and too limited resources, PRT's have been generally seen as a success with [[NATO]]'s mission in Afghanistan. <ref>http://www.carlisle.army.mil/usawc/Parameters/05winter/mcnerney.htm</ref>

===PRTs operating in Afghanistan===

*Asadabad (USA)
*Bamian (New Zealand)
*Chagcharan (Lithuania)
*Faizabad (Germany)
*Farah (USA)
*Gardez (USA)
*Ghazni (USA)
*Heart (Italy)
*Jalalabad (USA)
*Kandahar (USA)
*Khowst (USA)
*Kondoz (USA)
*Lashkar Gah (USA)
*Maimana (UK)
*Mazar-e-Sharif (USA)
*Mehtlaram (USA)
*Parwan (USA)
*Pul-i-Khumri (Netherlands)
*Qalat (USA)
*Qal-i-Naw (Spain)
*Sharan (USA)
*Tirin Khowt(USA) <ref>http://www.usip.org/pubs/specialreports/sr152.html</ref>

==Iraq==

The United States stabilization mission in [[Iraq]] is using the PRT structure. This structure is being increased as part of the United States increase of troops in Iraq.<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref> President Bush stated that, “[The United States] will double the number of provincial reconstruction teams."<ref>http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=2656</ref>

== References ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Military]]
[[Category:NATO]]

Orthodox Church

2008-06-17T23:49:03Z

Dchall1: /* Church of Serbia */ restoring edits per lack of opposition to talk page proposal

The '''Orthodox Churches''' are the second largest body of [[Christians]], with an estimated membership between 250 million and 350 million people. The Orthodox Churches understand themselves to constitute the original Catholic Christian Church founded by [[Jesus Christ]]. The Orthodox faith is notable for its use of [[icon|icons]], candles, incense, relics of [[saint]]s, and beautiful vestments during her rich liturgical services. It is often confused with the Byzantine-rite Catholics who are in communion with the Pope of Rome. The Orthodox are not in communion with the [[Roman Catholics]], whom they view as holding several false doctrines. While in the West the Orthodox Churches may be thought of as the Church in Russia, Greece, and other Eastern European countries, they are present on all inhabited continents and in most countries of the world.

== Beliefs of Orthodox Christians ==

While the Orthodox Church draws its beliefs from a very wide variety of sources, including the [[Gospels]], the other books of the [[Old Testament|Old]] and [[New Testament]]s, the written histories, the writings and sayings of saints, the Seven Ecumenical Councils, angelic communication and other direct spiritual experiences, icons, the Holy Mysteries (sacraments) and many other things besides, the core of what they believe is contained in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed and Tradition, (the deposit of faith).

The Creed:

<blockquote>''I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible. And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten, begotten of the Father before all ages. Light of Light; true God of true God; begotten, not made; of one essence with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, and became man. And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate, and suffered, and was buried. And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; whose Kingdom shall have no end. And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets. In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. [[Amen]].''</blockquote>

This creed is professed by all Orthodox Christians prior to baptism, and at every celebration of the Divine Liturgy (the main service of the Orthodox Church).

The [[Bible]]
The Orthodox regard the Bible as the main source of and rule against which the life, actions, words, and thoughts of the Church and her members are judged. Its role in the life of the church can not be overstated. It is read from at every service, in fact, most of the services of the Orthodox Church consist, at least in part, of chanting large portions of the Bible.

The Gospels are accorded a special place in the worship of the orthodox Church. They are afforded great honor. For example, they are bound in Gold often beset with gems, separately from the rest of the Bible. They are carried in processions, they are kissed , they are bowed to, and they are censed. All stand when the Gospel is read during a service. When the Gospel is not being venerated or being read from it is kept on the Altar.

All Orthodox Christians are expected to read from the Gospels and the [[Epistles]] every day, except during [[Lent]] when Old Testament readings are assigned.

== The Autocephalous Churches==

===Church of Constantinople===

This church which had always had a strong missionary zeal has suffered greatly under the heel of [[Islam]]. Also, the catastrophic effect of the Roman Catholic invasion of Constantinople during the 4th Crusade can not be overstated. That event saw most of the relics carted away or destroyed, and a Roman Catholic pretender put in the place of the Orthodox [[patriarch]]. Nevertheless, in the last hundred years this Church has recaptured its missionary heritage, establishing churches in Singapore, Malaysia, [[Australia]], India, Korea, New Zealand, North America, Mexico, and South America. The Church of [[Constantinople]] also provides arch-pastoral services for some Orthodox in the U.S. who are not part of the Orthodox Church in America. This Church was established by [[St. Andrew]] but was a very small and almost insignificant Church until [[St. Constantine]] moved the capitol of the [[Roman Empire]] to this city and the [[Council of Nicea]] gave the Church there second place after [[Rome]].

===Church of Alexandria===

Having been devastated first by schism, and then by Islam, and also by European colonial powers, this church languished as a diaspora church for Greek speakers for a thousand years. It is only now making remarkable strides to regain its lost footing, having expanded west into territory lost to the Roman schism, south into territory lost to the Coptic schism, and even beyond that all the way to South Africa, establishing new dioceses in Madagascar, Kenya, Congo, South Africa and many other countries and regions of [[Africa]]. [[Alexandria]] is one of the three ancient Petrine Sees, having been established by [[St. Mark]] on the instructions of [[St. Peter]].

===Church of Antioch===

Like the Church of Alexandria, this Church also was much hindered by schism and Islam. First they lost all of the Persian, all of the Indian, and most of the Assyrian dioceses to [[Nestorian]] heretics. Then Islam invaded. Nevertheless, this church never lost its missionary zeal. Even while persecuted they continued to send out missionaries, reestablishing the Church in all of the countries it lost. The Church of Antioch also provides arch-pastoral services for some Orthodox in the U.S. who are not part of the Orthodox Church in America. Antioch is one of the three ancient Petrine Sees.

===Church of Jerusalem===

The early history of this church is related in the [[Book of Acts]] in the New Testament. It too has been plagued by Islam and crusaders. Though its missionary activity is circumscribed by its being surrounded by other Patriarchates, it does engage in missionary activity to the Jews in [[Israel]] and the Muslims in [[Palestine]]. The liturgy is served in [[Hebrew]] and in [[Arabic]]. This is also the only one of the Orthodox churches still serving the Liturgy of [[St. James]], the oldest and longest liturgy of the Orthodox Church. (Only a small part of the liturgy was actually written by St. James.)

===Church of Russia===

Though there were already Orthodox Christians in some of the Black Sea ports, and though [[Viking]] traders had become Christians in Constantinople and had built some churches along their Volga river trade-route, and though the Polish had begun some missionary activity along the western frontier of the Kievan state, the year conventionally recognized as the establishment of the Church of Russia is 988 when [[St. Prince Vladimir]] decreed Orthodox Christianity as the state religion. This church, like many of the Orthodox Churches suffered from Islamic invasion, but also [[Mongol]] conquest and most recently, severe persecution under the [[Communists]]. This last persecution produced more than 50 million holy [[martyrs]].

===Church of Georgia===

This is the only of the Local Orthodox Churches to have been established by a woman, St. Nina. In the 4th century she traveled around Georgia preaching and baptizing. Priests followed after her organizing parishes and administering the other Holy Mysteries. In the 18th century the Russian Emperor folded this Church into the Russian Church, but since the dissolution of the Soviet Empire the Georgian Church has reclaimed its autocephalous status.

===Church of Serbia===

This church was devastated by [[communism]], and later confused by the nationalist movement of [[Slobodan Milosevic]]. Though the bishops did not fall for his “Orthodoxy is Nationalism” heresy many of the poorly-prepared Orthodox laity did. The results were devastating. The spiritual heartland of this Church is considered to be [[Kosovo]], where Prince Lazar and the peoples of eastern Europe attempted to defend their homeland against the invading Ottoman Empire in 1389. He lost, and animosity accrued over the ages as the Serbs continued to keep their Orthodox heritage, but the Albanians adopted the religion of their conquerors. In more recent times, Muslim Albanians waged a guerilla war against the Orthodox Serbs that led to the destruction of many centuries-old monasteries, churches, and mosques.<ref>[http://www.haverford.edu/relg/sells/kosovo/herscherriedlmayer.htm Architectural Heritage in Kosovo: A Post-War Report], Andrew Herscher and Andras Riedlmayer, 2000</ref>

The Orthodox Church is very concerned Kosovo being separated from Serbia and has urged violence against Kosovar Albanians and NATO and EU peacekeepers to prevent this from occurring.<ref>[http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSHAM738779 Serb church urges state of war over Kosovo], Reuters, Feb 17, 2008.</ref> There is past video evidence of collusion between priests of the Orthodox Church and paramilitaries directly involved in the [[Srebrenica massacre]].<ref>[http://www.domovina.net/tribunal/ictytv/050601_milosevic_eng.ram Video of Orthodox priest blessing members of the Scorpions]</ref>

===Church of Romania===

Though this Church is second in size to the Church of [[Russia]], it is probably 1st in zeal and active membership. The contributions of the Romanian Church can not be overstated. Martyrs, ascetics, monastics, theologians, hymnographers, missionaries, and spiritual warriors abound in this Church.

===Church of Bulgaria===

Established by the brothers St. Cyril and St. Methodius in the 9th century this ancient Patriarchate was suppressed and was made a part of the Church of Constantinople by the Ottoman Turks in the 15th Century. Missionaries from Bulgaria were key in the evangelization of the lands of Serbia, [[Romania]], and Montenegro. Only in the 1870s did the Church of Bulgaria regain its autocephalous status.

===Church of Cyprus===

Established by St. [[Lazarus (brother of Mary)|Lazarus]] (the one Jesus raised from the dead) this has been a church of martyrs, in the Second Century a hundred thousand Christians were murdered here by Jewish mobs, and in the 1840's the entire Episcopacy and all leading laymen were rounded up and murdered by the Turks. It has been autocephalous since the Council of Ephesus made it so A.D. 431. Nevertheless, it is an important pilgrimage site since the relics of St. Lazarus and St. Barnabus are there. Two stories about St. Lazarus still circulate on the island. One that he laughed aloud at a man who stole a clay pot saying “clay stealing clay” and that he always served something sweet at every meal.

===Church of Greece===

Though part of the Church of Constantinople for most of its history, this Church emerged from the 19th and 20th century struggle for Greek independence from the Turks. Probably, the most famous bishop of Athens is [[St. Dionysius]] who was converted by St. Paul.

===Church of Albania===

This Church is the only Church in Europe that has to deal with a Muslim-majority population. Oddly, the Primate of this church, Archbishop Anastasios is one of the most loved people in Albania. Even Muslims come to him for blessings on their marriages and for prayers when they are sick.

===Church of Poland===

This Church has existed since the 9th Century when it was established by [[Saint Cyril]] and [[Saint Methodius]] but was part of the Church of Constantinople for most of its history. In the 15th century most of the Orthodox in Poland fell away into Roman heresy and formed one of the Eastern-Rite Catholic Churches in communion with the Pope of [[Rome]]. In 1924 this much diminished Church was granted autocephaly. After WWII part of western Byelorussia was added to Poland. With the territory came many Orthodox Christians. Most Orthodox in Poland are descendants of these former Byelorussians.

===Church of the Czech and Slovak Lands===

The brothers St. Cyril and St. Methodius established this Church in the Czech region of Moravia in the 9th century. But when the brothers died Pope Stephen V of Rome ordered that their mission be destroyed, and forced all of the people who converted under the Sainted brothers to leave Moravia and settle in what is now Slovakia. There, due to the influence of the nearby Orthodox Poles and the Kievan State the Orthodox were able to survive, barely. In 1921 many people began leaving the Roman Catholic Church and converting to Orthodoxy under a Serbian Bishop. One of them was a Roman Catholic priest who took the name Gorazd upon his conversion. A few years after his conversion he was consecrated Bishop of Moravia. Under his apostolic ministry the Church of Bohemia and Moravia, as well as Slovakia experienced tremendous growth. He was martyred by the Nazis in 1942. The Church suffered greatly under the [[Nazis]] and the Communists and is only now regaining its footing. It was officially recognized as Autocephalous by the other Autocephalous churches in 1998.

===Orthodox Church in America===
See history of the Orthodox Church in America below :

== History of the Orthodox Church in North America ==

===The Russians===

In 1794 several monks from Russia’s northeastern monasteries began working with the native population of Kodiak and Unalaska Islands. Among those monks was St. Herman.

St. Herman was born in the town of Serpukhov in the [[Moscow]] Diocese around 1756. At the age of 16, he entered the monastic life at the Trinity-St. Sergius Hermitage near St. Petersburg. While here he developed a severe throat infection from which he nearly died. After fervent prayer before an icon of the Theotokos, he fell into a deep sleep. During this sleep, He dreamed that he was healed by the Virgin and upon waking, he had completely recovered. A few years later he moved to the Valaam Monastery on Lake Ladoga. At this time the Golikov-Shelikov Company - licensed to exploit the resources of Alaska - requested monks to work in a new Alaskan mission. Father Herman was among the eight monks selected. They arrived on Kodiak Island on September 24, 1794, and immediately set out on the task of educating and converting the natives. Eventually only Fr. Herman survived from this original mission.

The members of the mission felt that it was their duty to protect the Alaskans from harm and exploitation. They defended them against the often cruel treatment of the Russian-American Company which controlled the colony under the leadership of the cruel Alexander Baranov. As a result of their protests, and because they tried to place the natives under imperial protection by administering an oath of allegiance to the Czar to them, Baranov threatened the monks with physical violence and even placed them under house arrest.

Sometime between 1808 and 1818, Fr. Herman went to Spruce Island. He spent the rest of his life on the island, where he cared for orphans, established and ran a school, and continued his missionary work. He lived the ascetic life which has been standard since the time of the Desert Fathers. He built a small chapel and guest house. Food for himself and the orphans was produced from his own experimental garden. He wore the simplest clothing and his cell was practically empty. His life was devoted to prayer and to following the services he could do as a layman who had not been ordained.

His love grew to the point that he could see into the hearts of his spiritual children and help them. The natives regarded him as their intercessor before God. When there was a tidal wave (tsunami) on the Island, Fr. Herman took an Icon of the Theotokos, placed it on the beach and assured the people that the water would not rise beyond the place where the Icon was, and it did not. When there was a great fire on the island, he dug a trench and stayed the flames. Prior to his death he foretold that there would be no priest to bury him and that he would be forgotten for 30 years. He died on December 12, 1837, and was forgotten until 1867 when Bishop Peter of Alaska heard about him and had his life investigated. This investigation was followed by publications of his life in 1894, 1900, and 1952. In 1952 an Akathist Hymn was composed, and on March 11, 1969, the Great Council of Bishops solemnly proclaimed the Act of the Universal Church Canonization of the Staretz Herman to Sainthood in the Orthodox Church in America: "Taking into consideration the long and undisputed witness of the grace of God, appearing through the servant of God, the Staretz Herman of Alaska." The Canonization was performed on August 7 - 9, 1970.

In 1822 the Holy Synod of Russia decided it was time to send a priest to perfect the work of the monks. A priest named Ionn volunteered to be that priest. In 1823 the 26 year old Fr. Ionn and his family set off for Unalaska Island. He built a church with his own hands, learned the language of the local people, the Aleuts, composed an alphabet for their previously un-written language, and translated the Gospel of Matthew into Aleutian. He also translated a catechism and some liturgical books for the Aleuts, and wrote the first book ever written in the Aleutian language, a brief course in dogmatics entitled, “A Guideline to the Kingdom of God". Considered one of the best catechetical courses and educational aids for children and youth, this course has been reprinted in several languages many times since.

Fr. Ionn established a school with an enrollment of 600 children, built a hospital, and fought hard against the practice of polygamy that treated women as property. After ten years on the island, Father Ioann had baptized all of the people in the archipelago. He made a trip in 1829 to Nushegak on the American continent and preached the Word of God to people who lived on the Bering Sea coast and baptized those who came to believe.

In 1839 Fr. Ionn returned to Russia to convince the Holy Synod of the need for establishing a permanent mission in North America. While he was on this trip back home he received the news of the death of his wife. After a pilgrimage to St. Sergius Monastery of the Holy Trinity and to the shrines in Kiev, Archpriest Ioann, on the advice of Metropolitan Philaret of Moscow, took monastic vows on November 29. He took the name of Innocent, after Bishop Innocent of Irkutsk, and was elevated to the rank of archimandrite on the following day. In 1840 the Holy Synod in Moscow created a new diocese in North America and consecrated the Archimandrite Innocent as its new Bishop. In 1855 St. Innocent was elevated to Metropolitan of Moscow. While serving in that capacity he established the Orthodox Missionary Society to help fund mission work. He was concerned for arranging the work of theological schools in his diocese, opened a school for icon-painting and other arts for poor children and orphans, transformed Philaret's college into a school for daughters of the clergy who did not receive any pensions or allowances, founded the large Ostrovsky alms-house, and wrote educational aids for the clergy of the staff list, as well as their widows and orphans.

At the same time, the great enlightener continued his concern for the Russian Orthodox Church in North America. It was on his initiative that the Holy Governing Synod chose San Francisco as the bishop's See. Metropolitan Innocent also emphasized the need for the clergy to know English and for the Church to train priests from among local Americans as a necessary condition for strengthening Orthodoxy in the American continent.

Feeling his death approaching, Metropolitan Innocent of Moscow and Kolomna asked on the Great Tuesday, 27 March 1879, that the Sacrament of Holy Unction be administered to him. On the Great Thursday, 29 March, he Communed. On Great and Holy Saturday, March 31, the Metropolitan, Equal to the Apostles, fell asleep in the Lord.

The Orthodox Church’s next great burst of growth in America occurred during the ministry of St. Tikhon of Moscow, the Enlightener of North America.

St. Tikhon was a missionary bishop to North America. During his short ministry in North America he became a U.S. Citizen, and the Church grew from 15 parishes to 70 parishes. He was called back to Moscow in 1907. He was elected Metropolitan on August 15 1917. On November 5 of the same year he was selected, by drawing lots, to be the Patriarch of Moscow and all the Rus’. The Communists accused him of sabotage and imprisoned him from April 1922 through June 1923. He fell ill and was hospitalized in 1924, and fell asleep in the Lord on March 25, 1925, just two days after serving his last Divine Liturgy.

One of St. Tikhon’s most important decisions during his time in North America had to do with how to minister to Orthodox Christians from the Middle East who were arriving on the East Coast. He realized that these newest members of his flock needed someone who could speak their language and who was familiar with their distinct customs so he asked the Patriarch of Antioch to send him an Arabic-speaking priest.

The priest who arrived was Fr. Raphael Hawaweeny. In 1904 he was consecrated a Bishop by St. Tikhon and St. Innocent and from then until his death in 1915 he was known as Bishop Raphael of Brooklyn. During the course of his ministry he established 29 parishes and assisted in the establishing of a monastery in [[Pennsylvania]]. He was recognized, even while living, as a saint but was not officially glorified by the Church until March of 2000.

===The Russian Revolution===

With the rise of Communism in Russia and the corresponding infiltration of the KGB into the Orthodox Church in Russia, many Orthodox Christians in North America began clamoring for bishops they could trust. Additionally, the Russian Church split into two factions: The Metropolia (today known as the Orthodox Church in America or OCA) and the Patriarchal parishes. Essentially, the Patriarchate of Moscow sued the church in America for control of properties and actually won some of the cases. The parishes in those cases went under the direct jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Moscow. A third group of Russian bishops arrived in the United States following the Russian Revolution. They called themselves the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. For a while they merged with the Metropolia but they did not think of themselves as Americans or as missionaries to America. They were intent on keeping Russian culture alive among the exiles and returning to Russia someday. They eventually split off from the Metropolia.

Amidst this confusion, there was a desire for bishops from the “old country”; that is, Serbs wanted a Serb bishop, Albanians wanted an Albanian bishop, etc. And the Archbishops and Patriarchs from the “old countries” were happy to send them. Thus, right after the Russian Revolution, what had been an administratively unified Church in the U.S. became administratively fragmented.

== The Present Situation in America ==

After decades of a very cold relationship, in 1970 the Metropolia was granted autocephaly (think of it as administrative independence) by the Patriarch of Moscow and became known as the Orthodox Church in America (OCA). When that happened, numbers of the Romanian, Bulgarian, and Albanian Churches in the USA and Canada merged with the OCA.

The Orthodox Church continues to grow in North America. Most of its bishops were born in America, many having converted (either from paganism or other Christian churches) as adults. The Orthodox church has experienced a couple of waves of mass conversions, such as when several thousand Byzantine-rite Catholics converted in the early 20th Century.

The Orthodox in America have established one undergraduate college, Holy Cross in Boston as well as several seminaries including (Anchorage, [[New York]], [[Boston]], and Pennsylvania), one practical ministerial institute (Penn.), and a graduate school for lay theologians (Berkeley). Some of their parishes have Saturday schools where Greek, Russian, and other languages as well as theology and culture are taught to children. A few parishes have established High Schools and elementary schools.

Several monasteries have been established for men and women, and two (one in New York and one in Miami) have converted from other churches and have become Orthodox monasteries.

==References==

<References/>

[[category: Christian Denominations]]

User talk:Learn together

2008-06-05T03:28:18Z

Dchall1: /* your edits to Orthodox Church */ re

{{Welcome|sig=[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]]}}

[[User talk:Learn together/1|Archive]]

==Contest==
How about joining us on team one (to be named) in the contest?--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 19:49, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

:It would be an honor to be on a team where you are captain. Count me in. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:58, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Great! We're going to need you--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 10:48, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

::The contest begins today( Sep. 28) at noon, please check out our [[Conservapedia:Team Airborne|team page]]. Thanks, --[[User:Tash|Tash]] 08:51, 28 September 2007 (EDT)
== Rocker1973 ==

Can you block this user? He is doing some sort of vandalism that messes up pages badly. Look at http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Larry_Craig&diff=299153&oldid=289755 . http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=National_Rifle_Association&diff=299171&oldid=299152 shows how it works. [[User:SkipJohnson|SkipJohnson]] 16:50, 24 September 2007 (EDT)
:Thank you for noticing this and for your prompt revisions. He has been removed. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:58, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

*Beat me by 30 seconds! But I did block the IP range of all his proxies. --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 16:59, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

::I just help sweep the streets my friend; you're the one who comes through and paves it. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 17:01, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

*Better get a warranty if I do any paving! :p --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 17:28, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

==Contest Points==
Great job raking up points yesterday!! <s>I'm trying to get a accurate tally of yesterdays points for Team Airborne and I'm wondering when you were planning on recording a tally of your points for yesterday. If you want me to help record them for you, i would be happy to help (I'm recording Ed Poor's points right now since he dislikes the recording precess).</s> Keep up the good work!--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 17:01, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

:I've created a page ([[User:Learn together/Contest2]]) to record your points, and have recorded yesterdays on it. Please feel free to update and change as needed.Thanks!--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 17:43, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

== Urgent Matter... ==

Please contact me if you are around.... --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|Ṣρёаќǃ]] 04:32, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

== Sanford Ransdell Article ==

I wrote the Sanford Ransdell article. I was told that I could bring material that I wrote over to Conservapedia. If that's not the case then I apologize. [[User:Dwain|Dwain]] 09:39, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

:LearnTogether, yes Dwain is the originator of numerous WP articles, and we'd be happy to have his original, uncensored versions here. [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 12:06, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

::::No problem gentlemen. I help to guard the site based on the information on hand. If there's more than I am aware of and you have the situation covered then that's fine. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:32, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

== [[Alchohol]] ==

It is a very nice article, but it's spelled incorrectly. It's ok, it has to happen to everyone sometime, right? ;-) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:27, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

:Thanks for catching it. I followed the link from the Abby Hoffman article and created it, but didn't catch that it was spelled wrong. I've corrected it in the Hoffman article as well. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:44, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

==Counting Contest Points==
If you could total your [http://www.conservapedia.com/User:Learn_together/Contest2 contest points] for today that would be great (doesn't have to be exact to the .9999)- I have my SAT's on Saturday so I'm kind of running short on time and want to get some editing in tonight. Great job racking up points!! Thanks--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 20:03, 2 October 2007 (EDT) ([http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia_talk:Team_Airborne#Point_System here's] a link to the points guide)

:Sure Tash, and thanks for doing this for me as the contest has gone alone. Good luck on your SAT's. I'll need to leave shortly myself, so I won't be able to tabulate it until tomorrow. Hopefully that won't hurt anything. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:09, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

==Points==
What's with all the red links in your edits for day seven? They don't show having been deleted. :{ --[[User:BethanyS|Beth]][[User talk:BethanyS|Talk2'''ME''']] 14:23, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

:I'm still editing the page Bethany. Hopefully they'll be fixed up soon. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 14:25, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

The contest is over since 12:00 noon. You shouldn't be counting the ones after that. BTW great contest. Really exciting.--[[User:BethanyS|Beth]][[User talk:BethanyS|Talk2'''ME''']] 14:28, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

:Yes, it was lots of fun. Hope you guys all enjoyed it. ;-) But don't worry Bethany, I'm not counting new ones, I'm just organizing the ones I did. ;-) I dump my day's work, then I move them line by line to where they should be. Sometimes its quicker for me to just retype them, so case errors can pop it. All the red should be gone now for day 7. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 14:39, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

I also notice that [[Justice Joseph Story]] is after 12:00.--[[User:BethanyS|Beth]][[User talk:BethanyS|Talk2'''ME''']] 14:35, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

:My last edit was after 12:00, but I had earlier ones the same day. I'm only counting the early ones. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 14:39, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

::Great job man! You pushed us over the victory line...--[[User:Tash|Tash]] 14:58, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

:::Hey, you got your first victory! ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:51, 5 October 2007 (EDT)

==Bush National Guard==

So was Dan Quayle. The difference is, Quayle actually reported for duty and caught hell, while Bush missed most of his training and didn't catch nearly the flak. [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 16:20, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

:Part of the Dan Quayle article shows the double standard used against him that was not applied to others, especially those who came directly afterwards. Quayle was filleted for serving in the guard instead of fighting in Vietnam -- then along comes Bill Clinton. After 8 years of Clinton who didn't fight in Vietnam or serve in the National Guard, the bar was set pretty low. Bush at least spending some time in the guard was a step up. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 19:31, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

*Maestro, you are merely repeating, nazi like, the '''BIG LIE'''. Bush, according to all documentation not presented by Dan Rather, missed nothing much, and was fully flight qualified. It is open to speculation only as to how "officially" sanctioned his doing his flight quals elsewhere was, but I can tell you from personal experience, it was quite normal to do so. And that fact has also been reported nationally, but ignored amongst the hype. Please try to remember the original allegations were not that he wasn't fully trained or qualified, but that his connections allowed him to take that training in other places. Later it was minipulated, spun into his actually not receiving the necessary training. That has been completely, and factually disproved. That is why Rather was <s>fired</s> allowed early retirement. --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]] 20:24, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

== My friend ==

Where are you? --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 15:15, 5 November 2007 (EST)

:I am here my friend; I have just been very busy. Hope you are doing well and God's blessing to you. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:04, 8 November 2007 (EST)

==Contest==
Hello Learn Together - given that in the last contest you were one of the top two contributors - you have been made a captain in the [[Contest3|newest contest]]. The tentative starting date is Friday the 9th, and it runs for 7 days. Pick as many people as you want for your team - however, only the top 7 contributors will actually count (and it's best if you keep your team number to bellow 10 to ensure equality). If you are unable or unwilling to be the captain - please get back to me as soon as possible so we can inform the next candidate. Thanks so much - and good luck!--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 22:40, 7 November 2007 (EST)

:Thank you Iduan, I am flattered you have chosen me as captain for the next team contest. Unfortunately, I am very busy at this time and I feel I would not be able to do the position justice for Conservapedia or those who would join my team. In fact it was only dumb luck that I happened to sign on today and look. Really, Tash put in the most effort in the last contest even with his SAT test coming up at that time, including helping to tabulate our scores. May I recommend, especially after his strong showing in the last contest as captain to bring our team to a razor thin victory margin, that you see if Tash would be willing to take up the gauntlet.

:Again, thank you [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:10, 8 November 2007 (EST)
:: Nice to have you IN. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 16:55, 9 November 2007 (EST)

:::I can't let TK down. ;-) I'll do the best I can for you guys. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:58, 9 November 2007 (EST)

::::Ready? --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 14:26, 11 November 2007 (EST)

:::::Where is the list of your points? --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 10:15, 13 November 2007 (EST)

::::::I haven't tabulated it yet my friend. Don't worry, they won't be going anywhere. ;-)

Congratulations, great work. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 20:58, 18 November 2007 (EST)

==Contest2==
Hey Learn together! I'm so glad you could participate in the contest - even if you couldn't be a captain (and I'm even more glad that you're on my team!) So one of the first questions for our team is what our team name should be. If you have any ideas just get word out to TK, thanks (and remember: we're using a Machiavellian policy towards this contest: We must win - no matter what. lol, good luck!)--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]]00:02, 10 November 2007 (EST)

Team Name: <big>'''Supply Siders'''</big> --[[User:TK|şyŝoρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]] 16:55, 11 November 2007 (EST)
:Team page: [[Conservapedia:Team Supply Siders]] --[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 17:02, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Nice assist==

[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=A_Beautiful_Mind&curid=51139&diff=332837&oldid=332785&rcid=359995] --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 16:17, 12 November 2007 (EST)

:Thanks Ed, I just couldn't resist ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:17, 12 November 2007 (EST)

==Dewey==

Why is Dewey blocked? [[User:Lukecorlando|Luke]]

:He's highlighting all "goat" entries. That's a tonuge-in-cheek move that a site whose goal is to vandalize CP takes pride in. The last edit to Vitamin C had goat highlighted in about 10 different places. Think of it as a calling card to say "gotcha". Look through his edit history before being blocked and you'll see what I'm talking about. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 19:28, 12 November 2007 (EST)

== [[Panzerschreck]] ==

Check out the first two paragraphs of this article: direct WP copy/paste. I was going to recommend it for deletion, but since you edited it (and since the rest seems OK) I didn't want to screw you out of a couple contest points. Now instead you have an opportunity to gain some points :) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:53, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Thank you. The information appears to be a factual straight forward description, at least in the first paragraph. It all seems to be pertinent. Even if it matches WP, I don't view it the same as copying large quantities. I changed the second paragraph, where more individual style could be seen. BTW, if you really find an article that's unsalvageable, don't hesitate to have it deleted. The contest is to make CP better, so losing a couple of points to delete something that doesn't belong is no skin off my back. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 14:24, 13 November 2007 (EST)

::Actually I was on the fence about deleting, but I didn't want to step on any toes. Competition's fierce! :) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 21:44, 13 November 2007 (EST)

== Thanks for cleaning up my edits ==

I think I've got it now, I appreciate the help.-[[User:MexMax|MexMax]] 18:14, 13 November 2007 (EST)

:Yes, you've really got down the categories, the default sort, and the name form with the edits you're doing. Good job! Some of us will bold the name as well. With the entries that you have, I'm doing some form cleanup too. That's strictly up to the individual. Here is an example [[Philip_Pendleton_Barbour]]. Please note what I do is not a requirement or even expected. I just personally think it looks better that way. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 19:14, 13 November 2007 (EST)

== Jellyfish ==

Thanks for the recategorizations. However, I think that jellyfish should probably be recategorized, because the second sentence of the article says that they aren't actually fish. I'm not sure what the best category is, because I haven't looked at how the animal articles are really organized, but I thought I'd see if you had any suggestions. Thanks! [[User:DanH|DanH]] 03:14, 14 November 2007 (EST)

:Unfortunately, not really. Perhaps a category for "Sea Creatures" might be appropriate. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:17, 14 November 2007 (EST)

*Invertebrates?

:I was hoping for something that would get all the water creatures in one place to make it easy for our viewers. I'm sure we'll think up something. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 11:34, 14 November 2007 (EST)

==Points==
Could you possibly record your points since November 12, 12:00 in the afternoon? If you could that would be great! --[[User:BethanyS|~BCS]][[User talk:BethanyS|Talk2'''ME''']] 11:24, 14 November 2007 (EST)

???--[[User:BethanyS|~BCS]][[User talk:BethanyS|Talk2'''ME''']] 11:31, 14 November 2007 (EST)

:I'll see what I can do. It takes me a bit longer than you guys since in the past I've displayed each individual article under the scoring categories. I'm really not looking forward to that. ;-0 [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 11:37, 14 November 2007 (EST)

::OK! Sorry if I was annoying...I just want to know what I'm up against! ;P --[[User:BethanyS|~BCS]][[User talk:BethanyS|Talk2'''ME''']] 11:40, 14 November 2007 (EST)

==KGB==
Very good question, and not without several problems. We actually ran into this in WP also, and they have not satisfactorily resolved it, either.

For our purposes here, the basic division is between Case Officer and an agent. Speaking broadly, the Case Officer is the intelligence professional who is usually a citizen of the same nation that the Intelligence organization is subordinate to. An "Agent," in most cases would be a witting contact of the Case Officer. A "Source" can be unwitting, that is to say, intelligence information can be gleened from an unwitting, unsuspecting source, and then passed through an agent to the case officer. Also, a Source can be witting, too. That is to say, perhaps it is just a one-time passing of information, or perhaps under extraordinary ciricmstances a relationship can be formed between a Case Officer or Agent with a witting Source, whose information can be deemed bona fide & trustworthy, but the Source is just unwilling or incapable of forming an Agent-Principal relationship because of risk of exposure, etc.

I hope that doesn't clear it up, huh? [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 21:46, 14 November 2007 (EST)

:Actually it does Rob, thank you. It let's me know that there is a differentiation and I should stay away. ;-) I wasn't sure if they were the same thing and you had just started using a different category later. I'm glad you're the one trying to classify them and not me. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 21:50, 14 November 2007 (EST)

::For the most part, here in CP, the bios in KGB are Soviet citizens who were KGB Case Officers, & the "agents and sources" are mostly US citizens, with a few Brits, Germans, and maybe one or two Japanese right now. [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 22:11, 14 November 2007 (EST)

*So my answer, on your talk page, Rob, was incorrect? Or can the individuals in KGB, top category be moved off to individuals? Or do we need a new category created? --[[User:TK|şyŝoρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]] 22:14, 14 November 2007 (EST)

== block and delete needed ==

Just look at the recent changes. [[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]] 16:09, 16 November 2007 (EST)
:That should earn you a few points! [[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]] 16:10, 16 November 2007 (EST)
::Thanks to your heads up approach Bohdan, we stopped him ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:12, 16 November 2007 (EST)

== removal of copy righted material ==

I have removed a few additions you made as they were cut and pasted of material under copyright.
hope you don't mind.--[[User:JBuscombe|JBuscombe]] 14:21, 18 November 2007 (EST)

:Your removal is unwarranted. The source is cited and not directly copied. I am flattered though that I am being sought out by you guys. Why should TK and Andy get all of the fun? ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 15:53, 18 November 2007 (EST)

== Re-directs..... ==

Please ask before re-directing articles! We prefer to move them, Bill, rather than create double-redirects that need others to fix them later. Thanks. --[[User:TK|şyŝoρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]] 20:51, 20 November 2007 (EST)

==His Dark Materials==
Hi, I'm a new Conservapedia editor, and I noticed that you recently edited [[His Dark Materials]]. As you can see on my user page, [[User:JK899|JK899]], working on this article is my primary goal on this site. I am extending an offer to you to help me achieve the goals regarding the books on my user page. If you are interested, tell me on my discussion page. [[User:JK899|JK899]] 19:03, 4 December 2007 (EST)

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you on what will be the site's reaction to the books , and I know the article will probably receive heavy vandalism after I work on it. I want to state the facts of the book that are impossible to refute, like the plot and the definite constrasts with the stated beliefs of the major religions. I personally don't see the books as being anti-Christian (mostly against using blind faith instead of knowledge), but I won't say that anywhere and will definitely include links to arguments of people who say it is anti-Christian.

Concerning editing other articles, I'll make minor edits of course, but no real major changes until after I get Dark Materials finished. This is on account of me having just read the books and the facts being fresh in my mind.

I'll post the plot section today, and hopefully you'll see it and inform me of what changes I should make. Thanks for being so civil. Usually the only theists I encounter online are raving, opionionated jerks. Guess I've been looking in the wrong places. [[User:JK899|JK899]] 16:45, 5 December 2007 (EST)

Hi Learntogether, I understand you recently undid my edits to [[The Golden Compass]]. I'm not really sure why though, since my changes simply improved the flow of the passage and added additional information (such as the comparisons to Paradise Lost and its alternate title in NZ and the UK). Please feel free to discuss it with me further on the talk page. :D [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 19:16, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

Learntogether, I'm acting in good faith here and yet you're persisting in reverting my edits without comment. Please consider Philip's objective assessment and, in the words of Will Wheaton, "don't be a d***". :D [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 17:40, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

:Sometimes there are instances where compromise as you wish it is not possible. We are both aware of Pullman's position and we come at it from opposite perspectives in life -- fair enough. But knowing why he wrote the books he did and what he was trying to get across, this site will not allow any watering down or political correctness to cover that up. Other information such as the different name in other continents is fine, but don't try to rewrite the story. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 17:52, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
:: To be honest, I'm not sure you are fully aware of Pullman's position :D While he did say he was "undermining Christianity", he's added that there's more to it than that. If you've ever read his "Republic of Heaven" speech, he talks about how he is anti-religion because of the hierarchies and power politics it creates.
<blockquote>"We're used to the kingdom of heaven; but you can tell from the general thrust of the book that I'm of the devil's party, like Milton. And I think it's time we thought about a republic of heaven instead of the kingdom of heaven. The king is dead. That's to say I believe that the king is dead. I'm an atheist. But we need heaven nonetheless, we need all the things that heaven meant, we need joy, we need a sense of meaning and purpose in our lives, we need a connection with the universe, we need all the things that the kingdom of heaven used to promise us but failed to deliver. And, furthermore, we need it in this world where we do exist-- not elsewhere, because there ain't no elsewhere."</blockquote>
I felt that maybe the nuances of Pullman's position (which is one shared by other atheists, myself included) might be of interest to other Conservapedia readers. [[User:Underscoreb|Underscoreb]] 17:59, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

== Team ==

Hi there

I am just planing to make a team to update, at the Main Page, the "Article of the month". Could be you, Crocoite and me. I am sure Andy will approve it. Agree? --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 09:39, 8 December 2007 (EST)

:It would be an honor to be teamed up with two such fine contributors my friend. Thank you for your confidence. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:45, 10 December 2007 (EST)

:: The reply from Mr. Schlafly was this:

''Sounds like a fantastic idea, Joaquin! I'm all for it.''

First thing we have to do is to make a list of featured articles, then select the best ones. We can start now.

--[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 13:15, 13 December 2007 (EST)

Please use:

[[Featured articles]]

--[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 15:11, 13 December 2007 (EST)

Happy new year! --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 18:31, 1 January 2008 (EST)

:Any proposal to start? --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 07:40, 14 December 2007 (EST)

:: Good one! Thank you. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 09:53, 17 December 2007 (EST)

== Coin collecting==

(slaps own forehad) Darn! I shoulda thoughta [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Category:Coins&rcid=378923 that category] --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 17:55, 10 December 2007 (EST)

== Response appreciated ==

This is DarkMessiah, it seems i have been banned (for an idealogical reason :P). If you would like to continue our discussion, as i would, you can email or instant message me on changeblade@hotmail.co.uk Please contact an administrator and have them delete this account. [[User:PleaseDeleteTempUser|PleaseDeleteTempUser]] 17:09, 16 December 2007 (EST)

==Genocide==

I think we've come to a relatively good consensus that the Srebrenica massacre should indeed be considered genocide. Do you think we can unblock the article and make the appropriate edits. [[User:SSchultz|SSchultz]] 21:56, 16 December 2007 (EST)

== Thanks... ==

...for your kind words, but it's not a matter of not feeling appreciated. My cycles of quitting/coming back closely mirror Andy's cycles of posting his douche-baggery about liberalism, public schools, murder, etc... and then going relatively quiet. There's no serious dissent by upper management, so the site as a whole must be seen to support his beliefs. I've finally had to draw the line and say "I will not be associated with this." And now, I must return CP to my firewall's blacklist. :p Thanks again, [[User:Aziraphale|Aziraphale]] 16:32, 18 December 2007 (EST)

== Thanks for the heads up ==

I wasn't aware that we didn't do articles for specific dates. It won't happen again. It is a pleasure to contribute to this site.

:No harm done. We look forward to seeing your further contributions. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:16, 20 December 2007 (EST)

== Thanks... ==

...for fixing my talk page. People seem to have something against me lately. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 21:44, 19 December 2007 (EST)

:It is the highest form of flattery when you are attacked my friend. It is a sign that you are recognized as a valued editor to Conservapedia. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:15, 20 December 2007 (EST)

==Puellanivis==

I agree that initially his aggression towards new editors was unhelpful, but after having it pointed out he was genuinely contrite; more likely a misunderstanding than actual malice. Though his comment about Andy ''was'' out of line, I don't think he really meant any disrespect towards him; rather, he was trying to make a point about the 90/10 rule. In any case, despite some poor editing and minor infractions, I don't believe he was a troll intent on doing any damage, and a block of infinite time is rather long, no? I think a few days (maybe a week?) and a stern warning will be enough; besides, his edits will be more closely watched afterwards so there's little possibility for trolling. And besides, it'd be ironic for Conservapedia to accidently drive away new editors for doing the same!

Anyway, you have the power here - I just thought I'd throw in my two cents, perhaps save a new editor from his initial mistakes. [[User:Feebasfactor|Feebasfactor]] 23:52, 19 December 2007 (EST)

:Don't worry; I don't keep permanent blocks if there is contrition. It will change with time and private email correspondence. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:13, 20 December 2007 (EST)

== Battle of Aegospotami/Delium? ==

Seeing as how [[Battle of Aegospotami]] was started by you, could you maybe check if you really meant to say "The Battle of Delium in 405 B.C." in the opening sentence? I'm no expert in Greece place names or wars, so I don't know if this is intentional or not. If it is, could you maybe make a small addition to the article, explaining why it's known as different things? Thanks :) --[[User:JakeC|JakeC]] 20:18, 22 December 2007 (EST)

:That was a mistake. Thank you for noticing. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:24, 22 December 2007 (EST)

::Hey, no problem and thanks for clarifying/fixing. Was just cruising around with the Random Page feature and stumbled over it :) --[[User:JakeC|JakeC]] 20:26, 22 December 2007 (EST)

:::You're already helping. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:27, 22 December 2007 (EST)

== Philosophy categories ==

Yes, I just saw the naming convention guidelines. I will amend the Philosophy category names accordingly. [[User:JFPerry|JFPerry]] 11:39, 23 December 2007 (EST)

== Thanks ==

Hey, thanks for reworking [[Christian Domestic Discipline]]! It's a tricky subject, and I'm glad for the additional input you provided. It's much better now. :) --[[User:JakeC|JakeC]] 07:33, 27 December 2007 (EST)
==Contest==
Learn together - if you are interested, as you achieved the second highest number of points in the last contest, you may choose to be a captain for team 2 in the upcoming [[Conservapedia:Contest4|contest]]. Please respond as quickly as possible as to whether you are interested, as the draft will occur Saturday, and if you are not interested we obviously need time to find a replacement. Thanks so much and congratulations!--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 00:10, 10 January 2008 (EST)

:Thank you for the considering me for team captain for the next contest, but it seems to me that as the top scorer for the Timberwolves that the honor of team captain should fall to Andy first. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:22, 11 January 2008 (EST)

== New articles? ==

(I apologize for not replying sooner to your comment on my talk page - I had been blocked for a full month for one silly edit after a series of good ones.)

*''You have been creating multiple new articles that already exist, including the last five articles you entered into Conservapedia.''

Erm, those had been ''redirects''. They were on the Wanted Articles list, and I knew they existed. So I made a redirect to them. Unless you meant something different, I'm not sure I see the problem... --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 13:47, 12 January 2008 (EST)
==Contest==
Hey, so the draft will not actually finish until Sunday, but the contest will still start tonight at 12a.m., so all that means is some of you will be getting points without knowing what team you're on. Remember to keep track of your points well, at a page like [[User:Learn together/Contest4]].--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 21:08, 12 January 2008 (EST)
:Silly o'clock and I'm making silly errors to match. So I'm going to stretch my legs, sup some coffee and look at the stars for a while :) Will try to add a few more points before I log though. [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 20:42, 19 January 2008 (EST)

==Double Redirect==

You made a redirect to redirect. Please review [http://www.conservapedia.com/Special:DoubleRedirects this list] before claiming points for this. (Can I claim a point for fixing this? ;-) --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 18:21, 16 January 2008 (EST)

:I think you get a point Ed. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 18:29, 16 January 2008 (EST)
==Your Article==
Hey, I just wanted to let you know I made a fairly big contribution to [[Drunk]] - and given that you started the article so recently, I felt like I should tell you in case there was anything you didn't like about what I did. Great job on creating it, and as far as my contrib goes feel free to revert or delete whatever you feel appropriate--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 20:51, 16 January 2008 (EST)
:Are you kidding? You should get a gold star. That's great! Keep up the good work! ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 21:00, 16 January 2008 (EST)

== Thank you ==

For addressing [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:Barikada this]. Didn't see that you had done so before I posted a message about it. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 13:39, 18 January 2008 (EST)

:You get the credit. It was your bringing up the issue with specific examples that led me to agree a temporary block was warranted. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:50, 18 January 2008 (EST)

::Oh. I see what happened there. The date/time stamp is different on A's talk page for some reason. I thought my post came after you had blocked Barikada already. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 16:11, 18 January 2008 (EST)

== MSM Redirect ==

I corrected the Mainstream Media redirect, but the MSM page is locked so it still contains a Double Redirect, I believe. Can this be fixed? Gracias! --[[User:Jdellaro|Jdellaro]] 13:46, 18 January 2008 (EST)

:MSM doesn't appear to be locked. If you do find double redirects that you can't fix, I would advise going to [[User talk:Philip J. Rayment]] and put a note on his talk page. He's actively involved in this area. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:54, 18 January 2008 (EST)

==Email==
You have some :) [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 18:20, 18 January 2008 (EST)
==Points==
Hey Learn Together - I hate to bring up a question of points - but I saw just now in an edit summary, and then your contest page, that you were giving yourself four points for "extensive" minor edits - but no such rule is dictated in the current contest (my guess is that you might be using a point system from a previous contest), I'm not going to make an official challenge because I assumed this is a minor mistake--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 20:01, 19 January 2008 (EST)
:Uh, learn together? I just noticed you were still doing it - again, if you look at the rules there's nothing that says minor edits can be worth 4 points--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 21:25, 19 January 2008 (EST)

::I use the same standard I have been using for edits that are really not "minor". In the contests sometimes we are tempted to cut corners, and I attempt to keep myself from doing that by giving points for extensive alterations that aren't specifically extra sentences, but are certainly as meaningful for the state of the article as a whole. As you can see, I am an open book when it comes to tabulating my edits and the point values associated, and I would hope that anyone looking at my contributions would see that my scoring versus the alterations done are appropriate and not taking advantage in any way. If at the end it there is a wish to question the scoring used, then we can discuss it further at that time. Thanks [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 22:13, 19 January 2008 (EST)

::BTW, good job with your own work and editing. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 22:16, 19 January 2008 (EST)
:::Ok, I understand your reasoning, although at the same time this is a new rule set, and after the failure of last time we shouldn't really leave anything open to interpretation. Until we invent a "regular edit" (which, btw, I completely agree with you that we should!), I think we should just play it safe and use 2 points for every minor edit, as even beyond the fact that this is a new rule set, everyone else isn't aware that you can do a four point thing - and if you're the only one doing it that kind of gives you an unfair advantage.--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 22:32, 19 January 2008 (EST)
::::There's always a certain amount of individual discretion for scoring. The question becomes is someone trying to game the system or are their edits genuine? I believe the quality of the edits that I scored as 4 points speak for themselves, and, after a quick sampling at least, I don't see anything similar in the minor edit section of the other participants. I do notice many entries by others scored as quality edits that don't match the definition stated for the contest, but that's a judgement call of the individual too. I chose, in most cases, to simply put them as 4 points under the minor edit category. There will always be some differences in interpretation - for instance you give yourself points for bolding alone and many of us will not count that as a minor edit unless other edits accompany it, but as long as we are all trying to be honest and fair it shouldn't matter. I believe difficulties should only be brought up if there is a pattern of scoring that obviously does not match the value of the edits themselves, and I do not believe that pertains to me. Thanks. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 14:31, 20 January 2008 (EST)

== ID book ==

[[Intelligent Design (book)]] is the proper name, not [[Intelligent Design (Book)]], as the Manual of Style now says that titles should not be in title case. So the redirect should go the other way. Understand? [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 01:34, 20 January 2008 (EST)

:It sound good, thanks [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:07, 20 January 2008 (EST)

== Contest 4 ==

Congratulations! --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 12:10, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:Great Job LT!--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 12:15, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:::On behalf of Eagle Team, well done| A splendid effort. [[User:BrianCo|BrianCo]] 12:24, 20 January 2008 (EST)

Congratulations from [[Conservapedia:Team Freedom|Freedom]]. Very well done, again!!!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:25, 20 January 2008 (EST)
:Well done, impressive! Thanks for all your graft, B. [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 04:27, 21 January 2008 (EST)

Thank you both. You were both great contributors to the contest! ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:36, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:::What is your secret to win every contest?

:::--[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 08:59, 22 January 2008 (EST)

::::Well, having you on my team for most of them helps ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 17:36, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Ban for username needed ==

[[Special:Contributions/PastafarianBeliver|PastafarianBeliver]]. "Pastafarianism" is a flippant non-belief which has the sole purpose of mocking people who back Intelligent Design. (And judging from his comments so far, it doesn't look like he's here to provide anything worthwhile. Just complaints.) [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 13:24, 21 January 2008 (EST)

:Thank you for pointing it out, but I have a tendency to be cautious in banning him at this point. Nevertheless, his edits will be watched. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:34, 21 January 2008 (EST)

::BethanyS banned him already. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 13:38, 21 January 2008 (EST)

== Barikada ==

It's starting to look like [[User:Barikada]] didn't learn anything from his recent block - e.g. [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Left_Behind:_Eternal_Forces&curid=53111&diff=379019&oldid=379013 this edit]. [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 13:44, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:My last block was for misinterpreting clear instructions, I believe... [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 13:46, 23 January 2008 (EST)
::Barkikada, the key is not to see how close you can get to the ledge without falling over. We all have a general understanding of what it means to edit to improve content. Please keep your edits in that direction and the question of blocking you won't come up again. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:49, 23 January 2008 (EST)
:::Not to sound arrogant, but... I'm ''pretty'' sure most of them are. Normally I'd insert a rant about me falsely believing I'm being persecuted, but you're right. I should focus my edits on less controversial subjects. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 13:51, 23 January 2008 (EST)

== Vote ==

Click on the link to vote in my poll. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim (CPAdmin1)]][[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Election08|Vote for President]] 23:05, 23 January 2008 (EST)
==Contest 5==
Hey Learn Together, as you were a participant in the last contest I'm just giving you the heads up that the [[Conservapedia:Contest5|draft of the point system for contest 5]] has been written, and we're using the talk page as a forum for any notes/complaints that any users may have.

Learn together - I also want to give you the heads up that, assuming your schedule is free (the date for the contest isn't set yet) and assuming you're willing, you'll be the team 1 captain for this contest. Thanks,--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 20:21, 2 February 2008 (EST)
:Hey Learn together are you still around? If you aren't, and depending on how things go with the contest, we might have to go ask another user to be the captain, but of course if you come back after we've done this you can certainly still join the contest, and I'll wait as long as possible for a response.--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 16:47, 13 February 2008 (EST)

::I recommend emailing me directly if there is a time when I'm not on the site much. I can be available. I've written Andy on his talk page. Thanks. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 14:22, 15 February 2008 (EST)

== Hi ==

Nice to see you in action again. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 14:23, 15 February 2008 (EST)

:And it is always good to hear from you my friend ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 14:24, 15 February 2008 (EST)

== Trial Contest ==

Hey {{BASEPAGENAME}}, we've decided to do a quick Contest 5 starting at what will probably be midnight tonight - so sign up as soon as possible! [[Conservapedia:Contest5#Those Interested In Participating Please Put Your Name Here]].--[[User:Iduan|I]][[User_talk:Iduan|Duan]] 21:04, 16 February 2008 (EST)

== [[Gospel of Thomas]] ==

Please review [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Gospel_of_Thomas&diff=391209&oldid=376583 this] edit. I don't know enough to tell if it is vandalism. --[[User:CPAdmin1|Tim]] (CPAdmin1)[[User talk:CPAdmin1|talk]] [[User:CPAdmin1/Polls|Vote in my NEW polls]] 20:45, 19 February 2008 (EST)

:It's not vandalism, but it's not entirely true either. It's got a nice "spin" on it. I'll look at it later and make alterations. Thanks for pointing it out. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:23, 20 February 2008 (EST)

== Heads of government ==

Head of state and head of government are two different things. The CIA ''World Factbook'' defines chief (head) of state as "the titular leader of the country who represents the state at official and ceremonial functions but may not be involved with the day-to-day activities of the government", while head of government is defined as "the top administrative leader who is designated to manage the day-to-day activities of the government". [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/docs/notesanddefs.html] In the US these two positions are occupied by the same person, the president. However, in most parliamentary systems the functions of head of state and head of government are separate (e.g., in the UK the monarch is head of state, while the prime minister is head of government).

Thank you for the pointer on subcategories, however.

{{unsigned|Dadsnagem2}}

== Greetings ==

From no where in the middle of a journey, --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 20:07, 1 March 2008 (EST)

==Easton's Bible Dictionary==
Should I not use Easton's Bible Dictionary to create Bible articles?--[[User:Kuli|Kuli]] 16:03, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

:It's not necessary if there are Bible verses that say the same thing. It can be useful for backing up viewpoints on theological views, but for biographies where the information is contained in the Bible, then it is best to just use the Bible as your reference. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 16:06, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

What does the information in the block say, I think that was a block on accident--[[User:Kuli|Kuli]] 16:11, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

The block said I was replacing articles with 404 error server not found yet look at the edits of User:Weqq, I did no such thing--[[User:Kuli|Kuli]] 16:16, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

== Luke ==

Thank you so much for you help! --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 20:16, 25 March 2008 (EDT)

:I am always pleased to help where I can my friend. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 02:52, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

== Thanks ==

Thank you Learn Together for your unsolicited support. It really means a lot. Keep up the good work. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:09, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

== Deer ==

Why did you revert my edit to [[deer]]? I thought that the deaths caused by deer was interesting and I gave a source to back it up. What was the problem? [[User:Blinkadyblink|Blinkadyblink]][[User talk:Blinkadyblink|RAGE]] 23:29, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

:It was an opinion piece you used as a reference. And adding deer to the category "Dangerous Animals" was overkill, especially since the category previously had zero entries. If you wish to include the general gist of the article alerting to deaths on the road due to traffic fatalities then do so, although the specific figures and numbers should have a reputable source before being included. Oh, and of course, this discussion should take place on the deer talk page, not my home page. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 04:31, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
::Overkill HA! No pun intended, I'm sure. (Sorry to interject humor into this serious discussion but I couldn't let a golden pun like that pass). [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 09:55, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

:::Would this source be better [http://www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5330a1.htm]? It's a government site, and according to it, 200 Americans (at least, I assume that they're Americans) die in accidents involving animals (predominantly deer.) Another animal listed under [http://www.conservapedia.com/Category:Dangerous_animals] (dangerous animals category), the great white shark, kills a mere 50-70 people ''world-wide'' [http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/education/questions/Attack.html#year], even when combined with all other sharks. Could I redo the entry with the new source and statistics?
:::P.S. Sorry I put this on the wrong page, I wasn't sure where to put it so I guessed. I assume you don't want me to move it now. [[User:Blinkadyblink|Blinkadyblink]][[User talk:Blinkadyblink|RAGE]] 23:20, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
:This is a serious site, and, come on. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 23:28, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

==Sons of Jacob==

Before you change all the categories, are you planning to '''list''' Jacob's 14 sons in the [[Jacob]] article at any point in time? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 19:00, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:It would be a good idea, except Jacob had 12 sons. ;-) We had a number of imbedded catgories made that would make it difficult for users to simply see who are Biblical Persons. They had to go through the geneaology all the way from Temar, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,... You get the picture. I'm putting them back in Biblical Persons where they were. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 19:05, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:I expanded the article on Jacob (which was rather lacking). I see there's already a link to the Twelve Sons of Jacob in the Jacob article so I didn't specifically put the names of the sons in the Jacob article. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 19:21, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

Learn Togther,
Good to make your acquaintance! I have tried to interest others to do something on Larry McDonald but so far noo takers. A lot of people are now going to our website being refered from the article in wikipedia on Larry but I would like one in Conservapedia. It seems more pressing as this is the 25th year since the shootdown. Can you do the article?[[User:BertSchlossberg|BertSchlossberg]] 01:13, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Satan ==

Satan has been unprotected. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 13:30, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== Congratulations! ==

Congratulations, you've been promoted to Sysop! Well deserved indeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:58, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:Congratulations and welcome aboard! [[User:DanH|DanH]] 16:01, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

::Congrats, man! --[[Special:Contributions/AutoFire|trans]][[User:AutoFire|Resident Transfan]][[User Talk:Autofire|form!]] 16:54, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Congratulations! --[[User:Crocoite|Crocoite]] 17:50, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

Congrats, brother. [[User:Jinkas|Jinkas]] 17:58, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

:Good job LT! You deserve this promotion, and I'm glad you got it. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 18:35, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

WOW! Thank you very much Andy and all of my friends. I guess when I least expect it is when it happens. ;-) I will try to live up to the honor that you have given me and try to fill the shoes of those who have come before me who I will hopefully be able to emulate. ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 00:20, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

: Excellent promotion, congratulations! --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 09:26, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

::Congratulations! Quite honestly, I didn't think there was any other candidate. [[User:BrianCo|BrianCo]] 09:51, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Congrats!! :P [[User:BethanyS|~BCS]][[User talk:BethanyS|Talk2'''ME''']] 10:40, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Please ban Breebree, (vandalism to mobile phones) [[User:Dalek|Dalek]] 15:43, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

HenryS banned him [[User:Dalek|Dalek]] 15:58, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Whoo-hoo! Sorry I missed it. [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 01:08, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== TomMoore ==

*14:43, 13 April 2008 Ed Poor (Talk | contribs) blocked "TomMoore (contribs)" with an expiry time of infinite (personal remarks)

Don't wait for him to reply. I'm not quite sure what the "personal remark" was, but from what I gather, I'm in no position to ask, so...

On the topic: You're applying an interesting standard there, am I to suppose that it's also to be applied to articles? --[[User:MilesM|MilesM]] 06:35, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

== Virgin Mary gallery ==

Any contribution? [[Virgin Mary gallery]]

--[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 11:30, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

== Why was Todd Haynes deleted from Brown University alumni?==

I added Todd Haynes, the director of Far From Heaven and I'm Not There, to the list of Brown alumni and you deleted it. Why? Haynes has been nominated for an Oscar and -- in Far from Heaven -- directed one of the most highly praised films of the past decade. How on earth can he be described as "not notable"? George Harrison's SON is included, for Pete's sake. I will reinstate Todd with citations as there is no possible reason for him to be excluded. KeithJoseph 21:30, 20 April 2008 (GMT)

== query ==

Fellow admin, please review this block. The user's name is "oh stupid TK" backwards. The users first contribution was entering a dispute with User:TK. [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AUniversity_of_California%2C_Los_Angeles&diff=425607&oldid=425435]. What do you think? Sock puppet? Unblock? Thanks, [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 19:01, 20 April 2008 (EDT)

:It was a good call my friend. We block infinite for names like that. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:53, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
::I know. I never planned on unblocking. I was surprised the user wasn't banned right away. I only asked because I receiced an email from "Diputsho" asking to be unblocked. Thanks for helping though. [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 16:03, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

== City/town/county names as article titles ==

In case you don't check the [[Conservapedia_talk:Manual_of_Style#City.2Ftown.2Fcounty_names_as_article_titles.3F|manual of style talk page]] very often, I just wanted to draw your attention to a suggestion I had. [[User:Jinkas|Jinkas]] 21:04, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

==[[September 11, 2001 attacks]]==

You may want to review your reversion, it seems that FiscalConservative's edit was made in good faith and improved the article. He appears to have used the motivations stated by bin Laden (the mastermind of the attacks), whereas the motivation section in the present article seems to be a parody: "Luckily, the president declared a counter war called the "War on Terrorism" before any holy war started" [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 02:01, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

:I don't want to speak toward the removed portions, as I could see how they could be controversial, but what is there right now definitely looks like parody to me. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 02:05, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

::Am I right in guessing the controversial sections relate to the Sikhs being mistaken for Muslims? If so then this would appear to be acceptable content, as from my understanding there were a number of attacks against innocent Muslims following the attacks, and this should be added if there is to be complete coverage of the aftermath. [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 02:08, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

:By putting his edits at the top right under the primary paragraph, he detracts from discussing what actually occurred. He also included a link to an article that states that a Sikh killed several days later 'may' have been the victim of hate crime -- and this is inserted before the section discussing the casualties that occurred from the 9/11. And you call that an improvement? The incredible thing with America is that we are so strong in our desire for freedom for all that even a heinous crime like 9/11 gets barely a ripple in any type of reprisal attacks against those believed to be of similar ethnicities. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 02:09, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

::No one said that in "our desire for freedom for all" we believe reprisal attacks are more important than the actual casualties, I said that they need to be covered in order to provide a complete recount of the aftermath. How about moving the section and expanding it rather than removing it? [[User:StatsMsn|StatsMsn]] 02:12, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

==Vietnam War Reversion==

Erm, I don't exactly understand what your apprehensions to my edits with the Vietnam article were, especially given the information in question is improperly placed to begin with. Vietnam's economy showcases significant market elements, and to insinuate that Vietnam is a communist country (without any other reference or acknowledgement of it's free-market development post-war) detracts considerably from the article as is given the disregard among the general public to differentiate between a communist government and it’s economic policies, which in Vietnam’s case are clearly not concurrent. [[User:Willink|Willink]] 3:30, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
==I say Psychiatry, You say Psychology, Let's call the whole thing off==
Psychology as the main category for mental health problems etc is incorrect. In fact, "mental health" should be the main category, with psychology and psychiatry as sub-categories (perhaps even with psychotherapy as an additional sub-category). Schizophrenia is a psychiatric diagnosis, not a psychological model; therefore it is appropriately placed within the Psychiatry category. Psychologists are *not* always involved with patients who are diagnosed with schizophrenia, whereas psychiatrists *are*. The other types of psychological endeavour (industrial, educational, etc) should be in the Psychology category (and, correctly, are). The Psychiatric Disorders category should be a sub-category of Psychiatry itself. [[User:HumbleServant|HumbleServant]] 06:55, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

:You can go ahead and rework them IF you can change all of them appropriately. We don't want to have a category with some entries in one place and some entries in another. Please be aware though that when there is a subcategory, such as Psychiatric Disorders under Psychiatry, that articles in the subcategory are not also placed in the main category. The general idea behind subcategories is to decrease the number of articles in the main category. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:16, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
::Thank you, Learn together. I shall work out an appropriate schema for this before changing anything further. May God bless you and be with you. [[User:HumbleServant|HumbleServant]] 17:20, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== Sprawl ==

See Orange talk. Ta.
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 01:51, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Can you upload The Scream by Edvard Munch? ==

I got the link![http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/munch/munch.scream.jpg] Can you upload for the [[The Scream]] page? {{unsigned|TagoPagdaluhong}}
:Nevermind, I found it--[[User:TagoPagdaluhong|TagoPagdaluhong]] 20:22, 6 May 2008 (EDT)

== your edits to [[Orthodox Church]] ==

Hi, I noticed your edits to this article. You may not be aware, but one of your edits removed some sources, as well as the reference list at the end. Cheers! [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 15:03, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
:Can I ask why the article is locked? I don't see that edit warring is going on, nor do I see any efforts by you to discuss your changes. [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 12:14, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
::Posted a note [[Talk:Orthodox_Church|here]], and I'd appreciated your comment. Cheers! [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 23:28, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

== Golden Compass article block ==

Is there any way I can edit the article? Or should I post my proposed changes here for you to make? [[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 13:34, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

:Put them in the article talk section please for reviews. Thanks [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 15:21, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

==Engrish==
Thanks for filling me in. I'm sorry I put up that article on Engrish. I didn't know it was a slur, despite it being offensive However, now I know better to not write articles like that again!
[[User:RKLuffy88|RKLuffy88]]

== Featured articles ==

Please see [[Conservapedia talk:Featured articles]]. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 08:46, 20 May 2008 (EDT)

==Thurgood Marshall==

This is not meant to sound combative, but why did you go through and change every mention of African American or African to Black? '''[[user:JDavidson|JDavidson]]'''[[User_talk:JDavidson|'''Leave a message ::BEEP::''']] 12:50, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:The term African American did not exist during the time of discussion. Black would have been recognized then and is still considered to be acceptable today. I did leave the last African American as it discussed Clarence Thomas and by then the term had entered society. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:56, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

::I understand your reasoning, but that seems a little strange... are we going to only mention people based on the term society used for them? In that case, we could end up with some rather strong racial slurs posted in articles. Even though we would detect and revert, it seems like opening the door to extra work on our part. '''[[user:JDavidson|JDavidson]]'''[[User_talk:JDavidson|'''Leave a message ::BEEP::''']] 15:05, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

:::That's not what he's saying. What is your point? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 15:09, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

== Nice block ==

Nice block of "Mmmm" last night!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 08:50, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks Andy ;-) [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 09:19, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

==NASA Pictures==
The NASA article needs more pictures, can you upload some? Thanks--[[User:Jimmy|Jimmy]] 15:31, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

==Crusades==
You appear to have removed my section about the pogroms against the Jews during the First Crusade in your reorg of [[Crusades]]. Was that a mistake or did you intend to do so? I was going to just assume the former, since it was well-sourced, but I thought it might do to check anyway.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 02:06, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
:It was intentional as it was misplaced. The First Crusade was a success. The reference was to the totality of the Crusades and why they failed. If your source leaves out the pain of Francis of Assisi when he visited the Crusader army based on what he saw or the need of the Pope to excommunicate the Crusaders during a later Crusade, and believes it was only due to not keeping Church holidays, then it won't stay. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 02:16, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
::...you could have added those things, if you wanted, without removing other accurate information, don't you think? Or moved it if you thought it was misplaced? Isn't that the usual thing done with sourced actual information? Are you denying the pogrom that occurred in the Rhine valley, which is what I was asking about?--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 02:24, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
:::It depends what you think is accurate. The information was entered based upon the 'failure' of the First Crusade and the reasons for it - while in reality that was the one Crusade that succeeded far beyond what would be expected. It's not my place to try to salvage information under those conditions. If you wish to see what information should be put back into the article in some form, one of the things you should ask yourself is does it belong and why? The previous avenue has been closed. I would hope your desire is to enrich the article with whatever information you find that is naturally a part of the subject and that however that unfolds, it unfolds. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 03:28, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
::::I read that several times, but I guess I am just not smart enough. What I get is that you didn't think it was your job, essentially. That's weird, since generally on wikis people try to retain the good contributions of other people.
::::My desire is, naturally, to add information about the Crusades. In this case, I was adding information about the hideous atrocities enacted against Jews during the First Crusade. I don't know if you consider that "naturally a part of the subject," but I hope so.
::::Help me out: can I put that back in, or not?--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 15:12, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
:::::It is not my place to try to find somewhere for it to fit. The placement and reason for that placement originally given, was incorrect. If you feel it is has natural placement in another part of the article and matches the article scope and flow then put in those elements that you feel meet that criteria and I will examine it. But please realize the following historical information will be included:
:::::1) The mobs that attacked the Jews had nothing to do with the Crusading armies that eventually fought in the Holy Lands
:::::2) The Church authorities consistently tried to order them to desist, to no avail
:::::3) The Christian townspeople tried to hide the Jews from the approaching mobs
:::::4) When the mobs reached a fortified Christian nation, they were denied access as they were viewed as a bunch of unsavory criminals
:::::5) They then attacked the borders of the Christian nation
:::::6) At the moment it appeared victory was in their grasp as they were breaking through, they oddly got confused and fled, dispersing for good
:::::7) Their sudden defeat and fleeing was viewed as divine justice upon them from God
:::::[[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 15:40, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
::::::Uh... okay, cool. You put whatever you want in there, that's fine with me. It's a wiki. I was just going to add the blurb about the pogrom in the Rhine valley, and since I think somewhere in there was assent, I will do so again.--[[user:TomMoore|Tom Moore]][[User talk:TomMoore|fiat justitia ruat coelum]] 15:44, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

Talk:Orthodox Church

2008-06-05T03:21:13Z

Dchall1: Serbian church edits

User talk:DanH

2008-05-17T18:54:04Z

Dchall1: /* al Qaeda */

'''Archives:'''

[[User talk:MountainDew]]

[[User talk:DanHarchive1]]

[[User talk:DanHarchive2]]

[[User talk:DanHarchive3]]

[[User talk:DanHarchive4]]

== IRC ==

Does Conservapedia have an official or unofficial IRC channel? - Hak

:I'm not sure. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 20:54, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

== Leptospirosis ==

Just saw that an article named Leptospirosis was deleted. wonder why? can I re-create it?

thanks--[[User:JBuscombe|JBuscombe]] 15:49, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

== Martin ==

Why? There is nothing wrong with those links. On the contrary, It can give us more traffic. Do you have a proof that Google would not like it? --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 22:05, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

:I talked with Andy about it awhile back. Also, I've discussed search engines with User:Conservative. Google does not like it when links are placed at random without a clear correlation. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 22:06, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

:: Ok. Let them be until Andy say the last word. They are not without correlation. They are actors all of them. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 22:10, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

:::He is already in the Actors category, which links to all other actors anyway. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 22:11, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

:::: For us it is better to have more traffic and that is a better way than in the Category place. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 22:13, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

==Animals A etc.==
Can you move [[Animals A]] to [[Animal Terms A]]
[[Animals C]] to [[Animal Terms C]]
[[Animals G]] to [[Animal Terms G]]
[[Animals P]] to [[Animal Terms P]]
[[Animals V]] to [[Animal Terms V]]
[[Animals W]] to [[Animal Terms W]]
[[Animals Y]] to [[Animal Terms Y]]
[[Animals Z]] to [[Animal Terms Z]]
? --[[User:Qweki2|Qweki2]] 22:22, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

==Possible Bans?==
What is the highest possible block time? (besides infinite). Also, can you make a ban of [[User:Liberal9188]] and [[User:HHSFake]].. so I'm not tempted to use either of those accounts again.
:I have one final request.. could you ban me for 3 years, 1 month, and 4 days? Or 5 years if you don't want to type all that in. The reason can be: "request by user". Thanks. -^_^- [[User:Kektklik|Fuzzy]] 09:44, 20 March 2008 (EDT)
::I once copped a fourteen year stretch. I think the sysop must have been bored. [[User:HarryWharton|HarryWharton]] 10:43, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

For banning, can you do something like "3 days, 1 day, 4 days, etc." o_0 [[User:Kektklik|Fuzzy|AFD]] 21:37, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== So, what's the policy ==

The reason JM unfairly banned me was because I was removing the nonsensical see-also links on various pages. My reason for doing so was because it isn't encyclopedic. I began doing it ''en masse'' when I saw what you wrote to JM that it wasn't our policy. His response: It'll boost our google rankings. (VERY encyclopedic).

So, what's the policy now? I don't want another ban. [[User:DLerner|ד.לערנער]] 22:43, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

:Tread lightly when working with Sysops showing them the respect they are due. If you are going to be making changes to their work, then talk with them first and make sure there is a common understanding. This should be followed for all people, but of course Sysops can also ban you for it. Unless there is a specific written policy saying all 'See Also' sections should be removed, then it is unwise to attempt to remove them ''en masse'' on your own. Talk page discussions between sysops, especially before a specific resolution has been reached, do not count. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 15:59, 20 March 2008 (EDT)

==Thanks==
Thank you. [[User:Feuerstein|Feuerstein]] 00:14, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
==Why not copy from Wikipedia? ==

I wrote those articles on Wikipedia , Asteroid.--[[User:Asteroid|Asteroid]] 01:15, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
CLtFn--[[User:Asteroid|Asteroid]] 01:19, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

== Blessings to you on Easter - ==

Dear Dan H, You have been doing wonderful work here. :) Wishing you every blessing and joy this Easter - [[User:Taj|Taj]] 00:57, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Happy Easter and...... ==

Happy Easter! I am sending you a private email in about 2 minutes. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 21:10, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Thanks ==

While I appreciate the action, now might be a time to save oneself. Thankyou, though. --[[User:Wikinterpreter|'''wikinterpreter''']] [http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:Wikinterpreter Modspeed!]

:: Thank you! --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 17:37, 5 April 2008 (EDT)

== Great example ==

Great example of [[opportunity costs]], Dan!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:52, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

:Thanks! Opportunity cost is maybe the most useful thing I've learned about in college so far. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:55, 24 March 2008 (EDT)

== Request ==

Dear Dan, I am currently trying to get night edit rights so that I can better contribute to Conservapedia. As a sysop who has had experience working with me, I would like to ask for your support. If you feel that I deserve edit rights, please say so [[User_talk:Aschlafly#Request_.2F_question|here]]. If you do not think I deserve them, I fully understand and I thank you anyway. Sincerely, [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 01:19, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

==Name-calling==

Could there be any more damning evidence of the bankruptcy of liberal thought then the incessant campaign of name-calling by liberals against conservatives? If they had a rebuttal to conservative thought, they could simply present it in the [[Marketplace of ideas]]. Calling people liars isn't going to help their cause much. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 13:14, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

== Deborah ==

Yes, She seems to have expertice in several areas. [[User:BertSchlossberg]] also and she deleted several sentences from his work failing the discussion both had about that subject.
:I'll have to look at that. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 22:50, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

:: See [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Midrash&oldid=418826] First strike she did. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 22:52, 1 April 2008 (EDT)
:::Thanks for the link. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 22:57, 1 April 2008 (EDT)

== Liberal Tools ==

Mr. Schlafly created it, I have not heard of him doing any strange vandalism. ;) [[User:Geo.plrd|Geoff Plourde]][[User_talk:Geo.plrd|Complain!]] 03:15, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

:Haha... oops. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 03:26, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Christianity templates ==

Dan, you just protected a bunch of almost identical templates (user, Protestant, Baptist etc.) which could be better written as a single template with a parameter. I was about to rewrite them when I saw that you had locked them. I won't do it now as it's late in my time zone, but would appreciate access to modify them at some point. [[User:BrianCo|BrianCo]] 18:59, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
:Unprotected. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:09, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

== Satan ==

Do you think you could unprotect Satan? (On this site) I think we could handle any vandals. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:31, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

== ChrisGomez ==
Really good block there Dan, hearty congratulations. Never mind he's been working his fingers to the bone making improvements to CP, he's a sock so he's got to go.... Clever guy. [[User:Peason|Peason]] 14:38, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
:How would you know? You don't have access to checkuser. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 14:52, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
::So what's the scoop? I'm interested as well. He added a lot of thick, meaty content with nary a peep. Are these the people you don't want here? [[User:Donaldson|Donaldson]]
:::It's a user making a whole lot of socks, some of which engaged in poor conduct besides Gomez, and it's all been done by one individual. If this user wants to come back, then it's only going to be one name, one account, no proxies. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 16:20, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
::::I see. Are the posts which are considered "poor conduct" by the other user(s) being made at the same time as ChrisGomez? What I'm saying is all it takes is a spiteful lib co-worker, using the same proxy from work, to walk behind is desk and see that he's editing CP. Any liberal would be sneaky enough to create his own username and password and start trolling.
::::When I was banned from Wikipedia (long, wondeful story), it stopped about 1200 people from changing anything.[[User:Donaldson|Donaldson]] 16:50, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

==Cracking the filter==

http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Francis_%46ukuyama&action=edit&section=1

== Hooray Kansas ==

Congrats, but you do of course know that had Bucknell made it to the tournament this year, and had we played each other, we SO would have knocked you out this year. Again. So you should be thanking us. ;-) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 15:24, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

==Expelled edit==

Why dod you revert the expelled change?
The sentance 'making one wonder...' is really unencyclopedic
[[User:AdenJ|AdenJ]] 01:09, 13 April 2008 (EDT)
:It's probably not best to change the wording of the site's creator immediately after putting it there. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 02:19, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

== A user's page is his castle, huh? ==

You know, just because I may have committed ''lese majeste'' against Blessed St. Ronald is no reason to go messing up the format of my userpage. Which nobody is supposed to mess with, anyway. And I '''do''' think Reagan was showing signs of Alzheimer's back in 1980. --[[User:Gulik5|Gulik5]]

:That doesn't give you the right to be mean spirited or violate the Conservapedia Commandments. And don't be condescending enough to say that I think that Reagan is a saint. I have major problems with his deficit spending policies. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 16:02, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

== Page move request ==
can you delete [[States of the Unites States of America]] and [[States]] all they do is redirect to a category -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|12px]] [[User:Deborah]] [[Special:Contributions/Deborah|(contributions)]] [[User_talk:Deborah|(talk)]] 13:34, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
:[[States of the United States of America]] is linked to from [http://www.conservapedia.com/Special:Whatlinkshere/States_of_the_United_States_of_America eight other pages]. Deleting it will break those links. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 20:36, 24 April 2008 (EDT)

== Opinion requested ==

Could you please weigh in on the discussion [[Conservapedia talk:Manual of Style#City/town/county names as article titles?|here]]? We're looking for more opinions and hope to arrive at some sort of style definition. Thanks. [[User:Jinkas|Jinkas]] 19:39, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== Hi! from all of us at AtheistHQ ==
Hi Dan! You missed a few of us, ya big lug! And, on a different subject, you got something against quirky Twin Peaks references? [[User:TrueScouse|TrueScouse]] 23:35, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
:I must have missed it - can't say I've ever watched Twin Peaks. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 00:02, 28 April 2008 (EDT)
::Oh, you ''should'', it's great. For future reference, when someone addresses a tape recorder by name, that's ''probably'' a TP-related joke. Plus, "hit the road jack"? ''That's'' a pretty odd joke as well, wouldn't ya say? [[User:BlueMouse|BlueMouse]] 06:14, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

== Looks like a troll ==

[[User:Alexjohnc3]]

[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Westboro_Baptist_Church&diff=prev&oldid=410893 Recent comment]:

<blockquote>
Maybe they're so conservative that they're liberal. Like they go around the whole political spectrum? Or maybe, just maybe, this "encyclopedia" is just a load of BS written "[[Creationists|conservatives]]" who are upset that their beliefs all too often don't match up with reality so they need their own little sand box where they can censor any dissenters and tell themselves they're trustworthy and honest all they want without the threat of having their (crazy) beliefs mocked or criticized by anyone.
</blockquote>
[[User:Jinxmchue|Jinxmchue]] 21:38, 28 April 2008 (EDT)

== A major online conservative christian newspaper..... ==

A major online conservative christian newspaper is very interested in regards to Conservapedia's [[atheism]] article and the reporter said she would very likely do a story on it. She said her readers are VERY interested in the subject of atheism and the story that we are promoting our article and that some major Christian internet ministries have started to feature our article is a good story. I am making the conservapedia [[atheism]] article the article of the month which I think fits in nicely with the Expelled controversy. I have sent Andy an email on this matter and I am awaiting an answer. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 14:46, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
==Ajdak and Aydak==
Delete
*[[Ajdak]]
*[[Aydak]]

I can't find any information proving these are actually considered deities by any people -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|12px]] [[User:Deborah]] [[Special:Contributions/Deborah|(contributions)]] [[User_talk:Deborah|(talk)]] 19:46, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

:Thank you. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:47, 2 May 2008 (EDT)

==Wife==
Why the reversion? I have, as requested by Philip, provided Biblical references on which the statement is founded. [[User:Bugler|Bugler]] 14:27, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

== Great! ==

Thank God, you came in at the right time!--[[User:MReilly|MReilly]] 15:38, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

: Do you really think that God cares about websites? --[[User:DeanSa|DeanSa]] 15:43, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

== IndianaJ ==

Dan, I had a look at his edits and not all of it needs reverting - I would skip the talk pages for example so long as it's not objectionable. [[User:BrianCo|BrianCo]] 16:05, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

== I'm not a sock ==

I am not a sock. Yes, I am the same person who was TNS 1 and 2, but only because I lost the passwords to those accounts. They are no longer in use. [[User:TheNobleSith4|TheNobleSith4]] 00:48, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

== sysop-protected page ==

Hi, [[Lemon Test]] page has been protected: ''*10 February 2008 DanH Protected "Lemon test" [edit=sysop:move=sysop]'' - this page shows up in the list of "uncategorized pages" - requesting unprotect long enough to add a category, thanks! :) [[User:Taj|Taj]] 21:04, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
:Certainly. I forgot that was still protected. Hopefully three months is long enough. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 21:05, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

:: Thank you! :) I added categories, if desired, please feel free to protect again, I'm done there now! -- [[User:Taj|Taj]] 21:15, 10 May 2008 (EDT)

==Ravings from the other side==

Good luck with your finals! [[User:NewHouse|NewHouse]] 22:18, 11 May 2008 (EDT)

== Vandal ==

My talk page was vandalized, can i report this to you? --[[User:Reallife|Reallife]] 01:30, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

Cheers, ill know that for the future, god bless. --[[User:Reallife|Reallife]] 01:39, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Ans ==
Right, right. I'm so used to pressing "delete" instead of "backspace"... sorry about that. +_+ [[User:Kektklik|Kektk]] 23:22, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

:Ans is French for "years", so it's still a word. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 23:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

== Question ==

Did you delete my Conservapedia bias page?
If you did, you're just proving my point. {{unsigned|Kaiisin}}
:No, that does not prove your point in any way. Sorry. [[User:HenryS|HenryS]] 23:35, 14 May 2008 (EDT)
::Yes I did, and do you really expect an "equal airing" on a site called Conservapedia? [[User:DanH|DanH]] 03:11, 15 May 2008 (EDT)
:::I expected "the facts" but I guess I'll go elsewhere for that. {{unsigned|Kaiisin}}

== quick note ==

DanH, in about a minute I am sending you an email I sent Andy and some other conservapedia Sysops. Your input would be much appreciated. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 14:50, 15 May 2008 (EDT)
:::By the way, I have the vote of Joaquin Martinez and Ed Poor. TerryH read my proposal and has not stated anything for or against my proposal but my guess is that he will be for my proposal based on my previous interaction with TerryH. Do I have your vote for my proposal? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 15:09, 15 May 2008 (EDT)
:At this point in time, I abstain. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 15:12, 15 May 2008 (EDT)

== [[al Qaeda]] ==

Hi, I'd like to make some changes to the article as described [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk%3AAl_Qaeda&diff=440525&oldid=286437 here], but the article is locked. Any chance of getting it unlocked? [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 14:45, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
:I unlocked it. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 14:48, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
::Thanks, changes made. [[User:Dchall1|Dchall1]] 14:54, 17 May 2008 (EDT)

Al Qaeda

2008-05-17T18:53:16Z

Dchall1: reformated links

== Al-Qaeda ==

[[Image:al_qaeda.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Osama bin Laden with Al-Qaeda members]]
'''Al-Qaeda''' ([[Arabic]]: القاعد‎, Translation: ''the base'') is an international Islamist [[terrorism|terrorist]] organization founded in the late 1980s to fight the [[Red Army]] of the [[Soviet Union]] in [[Afghanistan]], during the 1980-89 [[Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan]]. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, Osama bin Bin Ladin and his comrades had their own sources of support and training, and they received little or no assistance from the United States,<ref>9/11 Commission Report[http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec2.pdf ''The Foundation of the New Terrorism''], pg. 56.</ref> which only provided funding to indigenous Afghan ''mujaheddin'', which al-Qaeda was not. It is currently led by [[Osama Bin Laden]] and is predominantly composed of fanatical [[Sunni]] [[Islam|Muslim]]s. [[Ayman al-Zawahiri]], former leader of the [[Egypt]]ian terrorist group called the [[Islamic Brotherhood]], is second in command of the Al Qaeda. Zawahiri has increasingly become the spokesperson for the terrorist network.

Al Qaeda is responsible for the September 11, 2001 attack on the [[World Trade Center]] and [[The Pentagon|Pentagon]], the bombings of American embassies in [[Kenya]] and [[Tanzania]] in 1998, the October 2000 bombing of the [[USS Cole]], and numerous smaller attacks. The group's wing in Iraq is believed to be responsible for many of the attacks and bombings there. The 9/11 Commission Report cites Bin laden meeting with Iraqi intelligence officials in Khatroum as early as 1995. Bin Laden declined reported Iraqi offers of a safe haven, instead settling in Afghanistan. Friendly contacts between Iraqis and Bin Laden continued, though there is no evidence of an operational relationship between the two sides.

"However difficult the fight in Iraq has become, we must win it," Mr. Bush said during a commencement speech at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy in New London, Conn. "Al Qaeda is public enemy No. 1 for Iraq's young democracy. Al Qaeda is public enemy No. 1 for America as well." <ref>http://www.washtimes.com/national/20070523-115137-6054r.htm</ref>

== See also ==

*[[Ramzan Kadyrov]]

==External Links==
*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/world/2001/war_on_terror/default.stm BBC Profile of Al-Qaeda]
*[http://www.washtimes.com/national/20070523-115137-6054r.htm Bush shares al Qaeda plans] - Jon Ward, ''Washington Times'' - May 24, 2007
*[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331512,00.html Al Qaeda in Northern Africa Has Become Pipeline for New Iraq Recruits], [[Reena Ninan]], ''[[Fox News Channel]]'', February 20, 2008
*[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,328832,00.html Al Qaeda Trains Young Boys as Terrorists, Tapes Show],
*[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330810,00.html Purported Al Qaeda Video Shows Prisoners Burned Alive]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Terrorists]]

Al Qaeda

2008-05-17T18:51:21Z

Dchall1: edits per talk page

== Al-Qaeda ==

[[Image:al_qaeda.jpg|right|thumb|250px|Osama bin Laden with Al-Qaeda members]]
'''Al-Qaeda''' ([[Arabic]]: القاعد‎, Translation: ''the base'') is an international Islamist [[terrorism|terrorist]] organization founded in the late 1980s to fight the [[Red Army]] of the [[Soviet Union]] in [[Afghanistan]], during the 1980-89 [[Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan]]. According to the 9/11 Commission Report, Osama bin Bin Ladin and his comrades had their own sources of support and training, and they received little or no assistance from the United States,<ref>9/11 Commission Report[http://www.gpoaccess.gov/911/pdf/sec2.pdf ''The Foundation of the New Terrorism''], pg. 56.</ref> which only provided funding to indigenous Afghan ''mujaheddin'', which al-Qaeda was not. It is currently led by [[Osama Bin Laden]] and is predominantly composed of fanatical [[Sunni]] [[Islam|Muslim]]s. [[Ayman al-Zawahiri]], former leader of the [[Egypt]]ian terrorist group called the [[Islamic Brotherhood]], is second in command of the Al Qaeda. Zawahiri has increasingly become the spokesperson for the terrorist network.

Al Qaeda is responsible for the September 11, 2001 attack on the [[World Trade Center]] and [[The Pentagon|Pentagon]], the bombings of American embassies in [[Kenya]] and [[Tanzania]] in 1998, the October 2000 bombing of the [[USS Cole]], and numerous smaller attacks. The group's wing in Iraq is believed to be responsible for many of the attacks and bombings there. The 9/11 Commission Report cites Bin laden meeting with Iraqi intelligence officials in Khatroum as early as 1995. Bin Laden declined reported Iraqi offers of a safe haven, instead settling in Afghanistan. Friendly contacts between Iraqis and Bin Laden continued, though there is no evidence of an operational relationship between the two sides.

"However difficult the fight in Iraq has become, we must win it," Mr. Bush said during a commencement speech at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy in New London, Conn. "Al Qaeda is public enemy No. 1 for Iraq's young democracy. Al Qaeda is public enemy No. 1 for America as well." <ref>http://www.washtimes.com/national/20070523-115137-6054r.htm</ref>

Al Qaeda Trains Young Boys as Terrorists. <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,328832,00.html Al Qaeda Trains Young Boys as Terrorists, Tapes Show], [[Jennifer Griffin]], ''[[Fox News Channel]]'', February 06, 2008</ref>

Purported Al Qaeda Video Shows Prisoners Burned Alive <ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,330810,00.html], ''[[Fox News Channel]]'', February 15, 2008</ref>

== See also ==

*[[Ramzan Kadyrov]]

==External Links==
*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/world/2001/war_on_terror/default.stm BBC Profile of Al-Qaeda]
*[http://www.washtimes.com/national/20070523-115137-6054r.htm Bush shares al Qaeda plans] - Jon Ward, ''Washington Times'' - May 24, 2007
*[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331512,00.html Al Qaeda in Northern Africa Has Become Pipeline for New Iraq Recruits], [[Reena Ninan]], ''[[Fox News Channel]]'', February 20, 2008

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Terrorists]]

User talk:DanH

2008-05-17T18:45:52Z

Dchall1: al Qaeda

2008-04-29T22:49:02Z

Dchall1: added preposition

[[Image:Jhfnm.jpg|right|thumb|Suicide bombing of a bus in Israel.|200px]]
'''Suicide bombing''' is a terrorist tactic. Prior to the bombing of the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut in October 1983, the majority of suicide bombers were not [[Muslim]] and the majority of such attacks did not take place in the [[Middle East]]. Between 1980 and 2000 the [[Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam]] (aka LTTE, aka Tamil Tigers) carried out more suicide attacks, 168, than all other groups combined.
<ref>Jane's Intelligence Review, ""Suicide terrorism: a global threat"[http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/usscole/jir001020_1_n.shtml]</ref>.

From 1980 to 2003 however there were 315 suicide attacks, of which only 76 were carried out by the Tamil Tigers. <ref>http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0725/p01s02-wome.html</ref> In Iraq there have been 188 suicide bombings since August 2003, according to the Brookings Institute Iraq Index (although some research puts the tally as high as 400.) The deadliest attack by LTTE, in 1996, killed 90 people, far short of the 2,992 killed by al-Qaeda on September 11, 2001.

Suicide bombing is used by Muslims in [[Iraq]] against [[American]]s, and in [[Israel]] against [[Jew]]s. Occasionally, it is reported in [[Saudi Arabia]] as well.

The technique has been, however, most widely practiced by secular [[Hindus]] in [[India]] and [[Sri Lanka]].
<ref>Tamil Tigers' tactics [http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/30/schuster.column/index.html]</ref>

[[Fox News]] suggested that the practice should be called "homicide bombing," "suicide murdering," or "homicide murdering" to reflect the [[evil]] nature of the tactic. (Reference needed)

==Reference==

<references/>
[[category:politics]]

Strategic Defense Initiative

2008-04-29T16:04:51Z

Dchall1: added references

[[Image:Sdilogo.png|200px|right|thumb]]
The '''Strategic Defense Initiative''' (SDI), which is also commonly called '''Star Wars''' (at first by detractors), was a proposal by U.S. President [[Ronald Reagan]] in 1983 to build a ground based and space based system to protect the U.S. from nuclear ballistic missiles. The system was never fully set up, but the research from this paved the way for the anti-ballistic missile systems of today, including the [[Patriot missile]] that provided the defense against [[Iraq]] missiles launched against [[American]] forces and [[Israel]] during the [[Gulf War]]. It is believed by some experts that the Soviet's response necessitated by SDI helped drive their financial and political downfall.

==Goals of SDI==
The basic goal of SDI was to intercept and destroy incoming [[nuclear ballistic missiles]] to prevent detonation over the U.S. In some scenarios, not all warheads would be intercepted, but enough would be to render [[Mutually Assured Destruction|mutually assured destruction]] moot. In the scenario of "partial protection", the U.S. would be immune from complete destruction, which would deter the USSR from launching a first strike. See [[Game Theory]] and [[Mutually Assured Destruction]].

==Components of SDI==
There are a limited number of ways to prevent a ballistic missile from detonating over one's territory. A brief primer on nuclear attack will help explain the problems to be solved.
===The Problems===
Missiles with nuclear payloads are launched in two primary ways: as ground based intercontinental ballistic missiles, and as shorter range missiles, such as submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBMs) and submarine-launched cruise missiles (SLCMs).

*'''ICBMs''' are launched from the ground, travel into space, and return with the assistance of gravity. Most contain "multiple independently targeted reentry vehicles" or MIRVs. This means that a single ICBM can cause many nuclear warheads to detonate over multiple targets. Problems involved include detecting the launch, and deciding on what level to intercept the target. If the target is disabled before deployment of MIRVs, this obviously solves many problems. Once MIRVs are deployed, many more targets must be eliminated. Destroying an ICBM before it enters space is essentially impossible. [[Interception]] in space requires a pre-placed infrastructure. Interception after MIRV deployment involves ground-based systems.
*SLBMs and SLCMs present serious difficulties. SLBMs have a shorter time available to intercept, as they can be launched nearer to target. SLCMs are basically a first-strike weapon, travel short distances quickly and close to the ground.

===The Solutions===
====Ground-based systems====
[[Image:SDI.jpg|thumb|right|100px|Extended Range Interceptor (ERINT)]]
Ground-based systems must be able to detect a rapidly-approaching ballistic object, and destroy or divert that object well enough to avoid catastrophic damage to the target.

====Space-based systems====
Space-based systems generally aim to destroy a ballistic missile at the height of its trajectory.
At this point, the missile is fragile and vulnerable. The difficulty lies in detecting the object, deploying the countermeasure, and successful interception. Several solutions have been proposed, including "Brilliant Pebbles", which would be non-ballistic kinetic missiles deployed to intercept the missile, and at low energy, deflect or destroy the ICBM.<ref>[http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/upload/87946_1.pdf "Brilliant Pebbles": The Revolutionary Idea for Strategic Defense], ''[[Heritage Foundation]]'', 1990</ref>

==Criticisms==
Critiques of the original program focused on two central claims: that it was technologically impossible, and that even if it were possible, it would destabilize the conditions of MAD. Another such criticism is that, during the [[September 11]] attack, the SDI would not have offered protection against this form of warfare and that rouge nations to not have the capability to launch a sophisticated nuclear attack against the [[United States]].
[[Liberals]] almost unanimously criticized the program, such as the [[Union of Concerned Scientists]].

==References==
{{reflist}}
[[Category:Military]]

2008-04-23T21:35:10Z

Dchall1: /* Causes and Conflicts */ reorganized

The '''Cold War''' between the [[United States]] and its [[NATO]] allies, and the [[USSR]] and its [[Comintern]] allies gradually built up in the absence of a formal [[Peace Treaty]] at the end of the [[Second World War]].

Although there was no direct fighting between the superpowers, each country was involved in a number of [[proxy conflict]]s, most notably in [[Vietnam]], [[Korea]] and [[Afghanistan]]; see also [[Cuban Missile Crisis]].

The Cold War was marked by a nuclear [[arms race]] between the two super-powers, and the unchecked proliferation of [[nuclear weapons]] was a cause for concern in many quarters. The Cold War also was marked by high levels of [[espionage]].

The root of the Cold War lies in [[Soviet]] [[expansionism]] and [[subversion]] of so-called "[[bourgeois regime]]s".

The tension during the war fluctuated, with the super powers going through periods of heightened conflict and also periods of improved relations. It ended on [[December]] 26, 1991 with the fall of the [[Soviet Union]].

{{scoop dissident}}

==Causes==

==Conflicts==

===Early Fronts===

November 18, 1945, General Secretary of the [[Communist Party USA]] [[William Z. Foster]] told delegates to the National Convention that "on the international scale the key task is to stop American intervention in China." On December 4, 1945, the Communists staged a "Get Out of China Rally," while communist dominated [[labor union]]s put on work stoppages with the same slogan. Conditions inviting the North Korean attack were created by the [[United Nations]] which issued a resolution for withdrawal of both Soviet and American troops. Troops began withdrawing September 15, 1948, leaving only about 7500 Americans lightly armed. This left in South Korea 16,000 Koreans and 7500 Americans, both groups lightly armed, against 150,000 fully armed North Korean Communists. General Roberts, head of the U. S. Military Mission said the South Koreans were not permitted to arm adequately.

August 31, 1946, Harold J. Noble wrote an article in the ''Saturday Evening Post'' entitled, "Our Most Dangerous Boundary." The author pointed out that the Soviet Union had garrisoned [[North Korea]] with a larger force than the Americans possessed in [[Japan]] and [[Manchuria]]. The Communists were disposed to invade at a moment's notice. Where the U.S. had a squad near the border commanded by a corporal, the Soviet Union had a battalion, commanded by an officer, equipped with motor transport, ninety per cent of which came from America. The Soviet Union had established a police state in North Korea and suppressed every political organization except the Communist Party.

In 1947, General Albert Wedemeyer made his report on China and Korea. The Korean part was suppressed. Wedemeyer said:
:"American and Soviet forces . . . are approximately equal, less than 50,000 troops each, [but] the Soviet-equipped and trained North Korean People's (Communist) Army of approximately 125,000 is vastly superior to the United States-organized constabulary of 16,000 Koreans equipped with Japanese small arms. The North Korean People's Army constitutes a potential military threat to [[South Korea]], since there is strong possibility that the Soviets will withdraw their occupation forces and thus induce our own withdrawal."<ref>Hearings before the Senate Committee on Armed Services and Committee on Foreign Relations, June 6, 1951.</ref>

Wedemeyer warned that this would take place as soon as "they can be sure that the North Korean [[puppet government]] and its armed forces . . . are strong enough . . . to be relied upon to carry out Soviet objectives without the actual presence of Soviet troops." General Lyman L. Lemnitzer said that before June 1950, when the attack occurred, no aid had been sent but a few hundred dollars worth of bailing wire.<ref>Hearings before the Senate Committee on Armed Services and Committee on Foreign Relations, June 6, 1951.</ref>

[[Owen Lattimore]] in the [[leftist]] ''New York Compass'' said that the U.S. should give Korea a "parting grant" of $150,000,000 and "let [[South Korea]] fall but not to let it look as though we pushed it."<ref> New York Compass, Jan. 17, 1949.</ref>

[[Chiang Kai-shek]] was caught between two wars—a war on China by Japan and a war on China by the Soviet Union. American leaders refused to see this and insisted on acting in the illusion that China was fighting the Japanese only and that Soviet Union was an ally. Then came the startling realization that the United States, too, like China, were engaged in two wars in Asia, one against a common enemy, Japan; the other against a common enemy, the Soviet Union. The United States, with its ally China, fought the Japanese. But all the time the Soviet Union, with its satellite Comintern army in China, was fighting both China and the United States. The [[iron curtain]] that, with the [[Yalta agreement]], was rung down over American allies in Europe—[[Poland]] and [[Czechoslovakia]] and other little countries—now fell on China.

===Major Cold War Fronts===
====In the Americas====
* [[Cuban Revolution]] / [[Cuban Missile Crisis]]
* [[Nicaraguan Revolution]], [[Contras]]
* [[Salvadorian Civil War]]
* [[Chilen Military Coup]]
* [[Argentina Military Dictatorship]]

====In Asia====
* [[Korean War]]
* [[Vietnam War]]
* [[Afghan War]]

==== In Africa====
* [[Angolan Civil War]]

===The Shootdown of Korean Airlines Flight 007===

Considered by many as the second or third most critical single incident of the Cold War, after the [[Cuban Missile Crisis]] of 1962 and [[Able Archer 83]], the shooting down of [[Korean Airlines Flight 007]] on Sept. 1, 1983 would signal a change in the relations between the U.S. and the Soviet Union prompted by the subsequent deployment of Pershing and cruise missiles in West Germany just 6 minutes from launch to Moscow. This precipitated the era of confrontation of 1983 and 1984 between the two nations. The world would once again witness what it saw as the blatent barbarity of what President Reagan had termed the "Evil Empire". Though the world had accepted that KAL 007 had exploded and crashed with no survivors of the 269 passengers and crew, there has most recently surfaced evidence to the contrary [http://www.rescue007.org/].

==American Victory==

The Western democracies, under the leadership of the United States under President [[Ronald Reagan]] won the Cold War. An important element of this victory over the "[[Evil Empire]]" was Reagan's decision to commit to increased military spending, such as the "[[Strategic Defense Initiative|Star Wars]]" program, as well as his sharp [[anti-Communist]] rhetoric and skillful diplomacy.

==References==
{{reflist}}

== See Also==
*[[Joseph McCarthy]]
*[[Iron Curtain]]
*[[Berlin Wall]]
*[[Korean Airlines Flight 007]]
*[[Soviet Officers of KAL 007 Shootdown]]

[[category:wars]]
[[category:Cold War]]
[[Category:Communism]]

Cold War

2008-04-23T21:33:17Z

Dchall1: reorganized headers

The '''Cold War''' between the [[United States]] and its [[NATO]] allies, and the [[USSR]] and its [[Comintern]] allies gradually built up in the absence of a formal [[Peace Treaty]] at the end of the [[Second World War]].

Although there was no direct fighting between the superpowers, each country was involved in a number of [[proxy conflict]]s, most notably in [[Vietnam]], [[Korea]] and [[Afghanistan]]; see also [[Cuban Missile Crisis]].

The Cold War was marked by a nuclear [[arms race]] between the two super-powers, and the unchecked proliferation of [[nuclear weapons]] was a cause for concern in many quarters. The Cold War also was marked by high levels of [[espionage]].

The root of the Cold War lies in [[Soviet]] [[expansionism]] and [[subversion]] of so-called "[[bourgeois regime]]s".

The tension during the war fluctuated, with the super powers going through periods of heightened conflict and also periods of improved relations. It ended on [[December]] 26, 1991 with the fall of the [[Soviet Union]].

{{scoop dissident}}

==Causes and Conflicts==

===Early Fronts===

November 18, 1945, General Secretary of the [[Communist Party USA]] [[William Z. Foster]] told delegates to the National Convention that "on the international scale the key task is to stop American intervention in China." On December 4, 1945, the Communists staged a "Get Out of China Rally," while communist dominated [[labor union]]s put on work stoppages with the same slogan. Conditions inviting the North Korean attack were created by the [[United Nations]] which issued a resolution for withdrawal of both Soviet and American troops. Troops began withdrawing September 15, 1948, leaving only about 7500 Americans lightly armed. This left in South Korea 16,000 Koreans and 7500 Americans, both groups lightly armed, against 150,000 fully armed North Korean Communists. General Roberts, head of the U. S. Military Mission said the South Koreans were not permitted to arm adequately.

August 31, 1946, Harold J. Noble wrote an article in the ''Saturday Evening Post'' entitled, "Our Most Dangerous Boundary." The author pointed out that the Soviet Union had garrisoned [[North Korea]] with a larger force than the Americans possessed in [[Japan]] and [[Manchuria]]. The Communists were disposed to invade at a moment's notice. Where the U.S. had a squad near the border commanded by a corporal, the Soviet Union had a battalion, commanded by an officer, equipped with motor transport, ninety per cent of which came from America. The Soviet Union had established a police state in North Korea and suppressed every political organization except the Communist Party.

In 1947, General Albert Wedemeyer made his report on China and Korea. The Korean part was suppressed. Wedemeyer said:
:"American and Soviet forces . . . are approximately equal, less than 50,000 troops each, [but] the Soviet-equipped and trained North Korean People's (Communist) Army of approximately 125,000 is vastly superior to the United States-organized constabulary of 16,000 Koreans equipped with Japanese small arms. The North Korean People's Army constitutes a potential military threat to [[South Korea]], since there is strong possibility that the Soviets will withdraw their occupation forces and thus induce our own withdrawal."<ref>Hearings before the Senate Committee on Armed Services and Committee on Foreign Relations, June 6, 1951.</ref>

Wedemeyer warned that this would take place as soon as "they can be sure that the North Korean [[puppet government]] and its armed forces . . . are strong enough . . . to be relied upon to carry out Soviet objectives without the actual presence of Soviet troops." General Lyman L. Lemnitzer said that before June 1950, when the attack occurred, no aid had been sent but a few hundred dollars worth of bailing wire.<ref>Hearings before the Senate Committee on Armed Services and Committee on Foreign Relations, June 6, 1951.</ref>

[[Owen Lattimore]] in the [[leftist]] ''New York Compass'' said that the U.S. should give Korea a "parting grant" of $150,000,000 and "let [[South Korea]] fall but not to let it look as though we pushed it."<ref> New York Compass, Jan. 17, 1949.</ref>

[[Chiang Kai-shek]] was caught between two wars—a war on China by Japan and a war on China by the Soviet Union. American leaders refused to see this and insisted on acting in the illusion that China was fighting the Japanese only and that Soviet Union was an ally. Then came the startling realization that the United States, too, like China, were engaged in two wars in Asia, one against a common enemy, Japan; the other against a common enemy, the Soviet Union. The United States, with its ally China, fought the Japanese. But all the time the Soviet Union, with its satellite Comintern army in China, was fighting both China and the United States. The [[iron curtain]] that, with the [[Yalta agreement]], was rung down over American allies in Europe—[[Poland]] and [[Czechoslovakia]] and other little countries—now fell on China.

===Major Cold War Fronts===
====In the Americas====
* [[Cuban Revolution]] / [[Cuban Missile Crisis]]
* [[Nicaraguan Revolution]], [[Contras]]
* [[Salvadorian Civil War]]
* [[Chilen Military Coup]]
* [[Argentina Military Dictatorship]]

====In Asia====
* [[Korean War]]
* [[Vietnam War]]
* [[Afghan War]]

==== In Africa====
* [[Angolan Civil War]]

===The Shootdown of Korean Airlines Flight 007===

Considered by many as the second or third most critical single incident of the Cold War, after the [[Cuban Missile Crisis]] of 1962 and [[Able Archer 83]], the shooting down of [[Korean Airlines Flight 007]] on Sept. 1, 1983 would signal a change in the relations between the U.S. and the Soviet Union prompted by the subsequent deployment of Pershing and cruise missiles in West Germany just 6 minutes from launch to Moscow. This precipitated the era of confrontation of 1983 and 1984 between the two nations. The world would once again witness what it saw as the blatent barbarity of what President Reagan had termed the "Evil Empire". Though the world had accepted that KAL 007 had exploded and crashed with no survivors of the 269 passengers and crew, there has most recently surfaced evidence to the contrary [http://www.rescue007.org/].

==American Victory==

The Western democracies, under the leadership of the United States under President [[Ronald Reagan]] won the Cold War. An important element of this victory over the "[[Evil Empire]]" was Reagan's decision to commit to increased military spending, such as the "[[Strategic Defense Initiative|Star Wars]]" program, as well as his sharp [[anti-Communist]] rhetoric and skillful diplomacy.

==References==
{{reflist}}

== See Also==
*[[Joseph McCarthy]]
*[[Iron Curtain]]
*[[Berlin Wall]]
*[[Korean Airlines Flight 007]]
*[[Soviet Officers of KAL 007 Shootdown]]

[[category:wars]]
[[category:Cold War]]
[[Category:Communism]]

Cold War

2008-04-23T21:20:23Z

Dchall1: /* Early Fronts */ rm unsourced commentary

The '''Cold War''' between the [[United States]] and its [[NATO]] allies, and the [[USSR]] and its [[Comintern]] allies gradually built up in the absence of a formal [[Peace Treaty]] at the end of the [[Second World War]].

Although there was no direct fighting between the superpowers, each country was involved in a number of [[proxy conflict]]s, most notably in [[Vietnam]], [[Korea]] and [[Afghanistan]]; see also [[Cuban Missile Crisis]].

The Cold War was marked by a nuclear [[arms race]] between the two super-powers, and the unchecked proliferation of [[nuclear weapons]] was a cause for concern in many quarters. The Cold War also was marked by high levels of [[espionage]].

The root of the Cold War lies in [[Soviet]] [[expansionism]] and [[subversion]] of so-called "[[bourgeois regime]]s".

The tension during the war fluctuated, with the super powers going through periods of heightened conflict and also periods of improved relations. It ended on [[December]] 26, 1991 with the fall of the [[Soviet Union]].

{{scoop dissident}}

==Early Fronts==

November 18, 1945, General Secretary of the [[Communist Party USA]] [[William Z. Foster]] told delegates to the National Convention that "on the international scale the key task is to stop American intervention in China." On December 4, 1945, the Communists staged a "Get Out of China Rally," while communist dominated [[labor union]]s put on work stoppages with the same slogan. Conditions inviting the North Korean attack were created by the [[United Nations]] which issued a resolution for withdrawal of both Soviet and American troops. Troops began withdrawing September 15, 1948, leaving only about 7500 Americans lightly armed. This left in South Korea 16,000 Koreans and 7500 Americans, both groups lightly armed, against 150,000 fully armed North Korean Communists. General Roberts, head of the U. S. Military Mission said the South Koreans were not permitted to arm adequately.

August 31, 1946, Harold J. Noble wrote an article in the ''Saturday Evening Post'' entitled, "Our Most Dangerous Boundary." The author pointed out that the Soviet Union had garrisoned [[North Korea]] with a larger force than the Americans possessed in [[Japan]] and [[Manchuria]]. The Communists were disposed to invade at a moment's notice. Where the U.S. had a squad near the border commanded by a corporal, the Soviet Union had a battalion, commanded by an officer, equipped with motor transport, ninety per cent of which came from America. The Soviet Union had established a police state in North Korea and suppressed every political organization except the Communist Party.

In 1947, General Albert Wedemeyer made his report on China and Korea. The Korean part was suppressed. Wedemeyer said:
:"American and Soviet forces . . . are approximately equal, less than 50,000 troops each, [but] the Soviet-equipped and trained North Korean People's (Communist) Army of approximately 125,000 is vastly superior to the United States-organized constabulary of 16,000 Koreans equipped with Japanese small arms. The North Korean People's Army constitutes a potential military threat to [[South Korea]], since there is strong possibility that the Soviets will withdraw their occupation forces and thus induce our own withdrawal."<ref>Hearings before the Senate Committee on Armed Services and Committee on Foreign Relations, June 6, 1951.</ref>

Wedemeyer warned that this would take place as soon as "they can be sure that the North Korean [[puppet government]] and its armed forces . . . are strong enough . . . to be relied upon to carry out Soviet objectives without the actual presence of Soviet troops." General Lyman L. Lemnitzer said that before June 1950, when the attack occurred, no aid had been sent but a few hundred dollars worth of bailing wire.<ref>Hearings before the Senate Committee on Armed Services and Committee on Foreign Relations, June 6, 1951.</ref>

[[Owen Lattimore]] in the [[leftist]] ''New York Compass'' said that the U.S. should give Korea a "parting grant" of $150,000,000 and "let [[South Korea]] fall but not to let it look as though we pushed it."<ref> New York Compass, Jan. 17, 1949.</ref>

[[Chiang Kai-shek]] was caught between two wars—a war on China by Japan and a war on China by the Soviet Union. American leaders refused to see this and insisted on acting in the illusion that China was fighting the Japanese only and that Soviet Union was an ally. Then came the startling realization that the United States, too, like China, were engaged in two wars in Asia, one against a common enemy, Japan; the other against a common enemy, the Soviet Union. The United States, with its ally China, fought the Japanese. But all the time the Soviet Union, with its satellite Comintern army in China, was fighting both China and the United States. The [[iron curtain]] that, with the [[Yalta agreement]], was rung down over American allies in Europe—[[Poland]] and [[Czechoslovakia]] and other little countries—now fell on China.

==Major Cold War Fronts==
===In the Americas===
* [[Cuban Revolution]] / [[Cuban Missile Crisis]]
* [[Nicaraguan Revolution]], [[Contras]]
* [[Salvadorian Civil War]]
* [[Chilen Military Coup]]
* [[Argentina Military Dictatorship]]

===In Asia===
* [[Korean War]]
* [[Vietnam War]]
* [[Afghan War]]

=== In Africa===
* [[Angolan Civil War]]

==The Shootdown of Korean Airlines Flight 007==

Considered by many as the second or third most critical single incident of the Cold War, after the [[Cuban Missile Crisis]] of 1962 and [[Able Archer 83]], the shooting down of [[Korean Airlines Flight 007]] on Sept. 1, 1983 would signal a change in the relations between the U.S. and the Soviet Union prompted by the subsequent deployment of Pershing and cruise missiles in West Germany just 6 minutes from launch to Moscow. This precipitated the era of confrontation of 1983 and 1984 between the two nations. The world would once again witness what it saw as the blatent barbarity of what President Reagan had termed the "Evil Empire". Though the world had accepted that KAL 007 had exploded and crashed with no survivors of the 269 passengers and crew, there has most recently surfaced evidence to the contrary [http://www.rescue007.org/].

==American Victory==

The Western democracies, under the leadership of the United States under President [[Ronald Reagan]] won the Cold War. An important element of this victory over the "[[Evil Empire]]" was Reagan's decision to commit to increased military spending, such as the "[[Strategic Defense Initiative|Star Wars]]" program, as well as his sharp [[anti-Communist]] rhetoric and skillful diplomacy.

==References==
{{reflist}}

== See Also==
*[[Joseph McCarthy]]
*[[Iron Curtain]]
*[[Berlin Wall]]
*[[Korean Airlines Flight 007]]
*[[Soviet Officers of KAL 007 Shootdown]]

[[category:wars]]
[[category:Cold War]]
[[Category:Communism]]