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	<updated>2026-10-01T06:55:23Z</updated>
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	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Devils_Tower&amp;diff=815485</id>
		<title>Devils Tower</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Devils_Tower&amp;diff=815485"/>
		<updated>2010-08-29T02:48:56Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Removed explanation of name because the reference says nothing of the statement and the site talks only about the geological construction of the rock.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[File:DevilsTower.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Devils Tower]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Devils Tower''' is a monolith and popular tourist attraction in the state of [[Wyoming]], rising 1267 feet above the nearby Belle Fourche River, with its summit 5,112 feet above sea level.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.nps.gov/deto/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; It was declared America's first national monument by [[Theodore Roosevelt]] in 1906.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There are two implausible [[atheist]]ic theories about the origin of Devils Tower:&lt;br /&gt;
*one theory is that it was formed by molten igneous rock forcing its way into the area's sedimentary rock, cooling before reaching the surface, and the sedimentary rock being eroded away.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.nps.gov/archive/deto/geology.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
*the other theory is that Devils Tower is the remains of a volcano, though no other evidence of volcanic activity has been found in the area.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
'''Both theories are baseless and absurd because there is no extrusive igneous activity in the area, and there is no evidence of volcanic activity in the area either'''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Intelligent design explains the rock well: it is a work of art worth seeing.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|1}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Wyoming]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=ObamaCare&amp;diff=815422</id>
		<title>ObamaCare</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=ObamaCare&amp;diff=815422"/>
		<updated>2010-08-29T01:18:23Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Removed section about the elderly as it had no link to a reference page.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[File:ObamaCareSymbol.jpg|right|125px]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Dr Obama.jpg|right|150px]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''ObamaCare''',&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://townhall.com/columnists/KevinMcCullough/2009/08/06/welcome_to_gestapo-care&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; more formally known as &amp;quot;The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act,&amp;quot; was passed by Congress into federal law on March 21, 2010, and signed into law by President [[Barack Obama]] on March 23.  This law began the process to [[Socialism|socialize]] America's health care system. Through legislative mandates, ObamaCare requires private citizens to purchase health insurance, involuntarily fund [[abortion]]s, and pay for sex offenders to use Viagra under the threat of legal sanctions if they do not.  The new law imposes penalties that will increase to 2.5% of one's income if he fails to purchase government-approved health insurance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Congressional Budget Office]] (CBO) estimates the unconstitutional revenue generating device could produce as much as $36 billion over ten years.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://allnurses-central.com/world-news-current/proposed-senate-plan-405168.html Proposed Senate Plan Would Involve IRS in Collecting Fines from Non-participants], ALLNURSES CENTRAL, Jul 03, 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The fines are euphemistically dubbed &amp;quot;shared responsibility payments.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.unitedliberty.org/articles/cbo-reports-entitlements-and-shared-responsibility&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  Employers would be required to deduct the penalties from employees paychecks.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/00421&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Association of American Physicians and Surgeons]] (AAPS) points out that there are no redeeming provisions of Obama's health care plan and offers a number of criticisms of Obama's health care plan.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/00377&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The AAPS maintains that Obama's health care plan will significantly increase the overall cost of health care to United States public plus reduce the quality of care that the system provides.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/00377&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Political analyst and &lt;br /&gt;
commentator [[Dick Morris]] has asserted that Obama's health care plan will lead to the significant use of rationing senior health care which will decrease the life span of senior citizens.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsImVGsFlmA&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The State of [[Massachusetts]] has had a similar program in place for several years, and many have elected to pay the penalties rather than purchase insurance, and many remain uninsured.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.aapsonline.org/newsoftheday/00421&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Obamacare will do more than detrimentally impact healthcare accessibility.  According to the [[Heritage Foundation]], Obama is intentionally sacrificing millions of jobs at a time when unemployment is around 10% with the Medicare surtax without any objective expection of increases in revenues.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2010/03/Obamas-Capital-Gains-Tax-Hike-Unlikely-to-Increase-Revenues&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Basic Requirements ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Beginning in 2014, Americans will be required to buy government-approved, private health insurance or else pay a penalty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Health insurance companies will be required to spend on medical care at least 80% of the premium payments they receive from individual and small-group plans (and at least 85% from large group plans).  The federal government will define what constitutes medical care.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Immediate Impact in 2010 ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creating temporary high-risk pool with subsidized premiums for certain people with pre-existing conditions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Imposing new taxes on some facilities, such as tanning parlors.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Requirements for Insurance Companies ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Prohibit bans on pre-existing health conditions in children, lifetime and annual limits on expenses, and limits coverage exclusions of pre-existing health conditions in adults.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Requires family policies to include children up to age 26.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Does allow states to form compacts in order to allow the interstate sale of insurance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Requires direct access to obstetrical and gynecological care, which might include [[abortion]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creates (by 2014) health insurance exchanges or marketplaces that will be state-based and state-administered, but states can opt out of this if certain conditions are met; insurance can be sold within the exchange only if government-approved, but insurance can be sold outside of the exchange.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Prohibits health plans from discriminating against providers, but plans are not required to contract with any provider.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Requires health plans to develop politically correct language services, community outreach and cultural competency trainings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Employer Requirements ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Requires employers having more than 50 full-time employees must provide health insurance or pay a penalty.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Employees having 25 or less full-time employees and average salaries of $50,000 or less can apply for tax credits to provide health insurance to their employees.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== Medicaid ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ObamaCare expands Medicaid (medical care for the poor) to everyone (under the Medicare age of 65) who has income less than 133% the federal poverty level.  States must pay this enormous new burden, but federal government promises to reimburse costs of newly eligible patients under this program from 2014 to 2016.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
=== New Bureaucracy ===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Establishes a new Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan (CO-OP) program with the goal of creating non-profit, member-run health insurance companies in every state&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Basis for Legal Challenges ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ObamaCare includes an &amp;quot;individual responsibility requirement&amp;quot; compelling persons to buy health insurance or pay a penalty.  The legal justification for this requirement by Congress is the [[Commerce Clause]]: &lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|The individual responsibility requirement provided for in this section ... is commercial and economic in nature, and substantially affects interstate commerce, as a result of the effects described in paragraph (2). ... [Paragraph (2) states,] The requirement regulates activity that is commercial and economic in nature: economic and financial decisions about how and when health care is paid for, and when health insurance is purchased.}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Apparently uncertain that this would withstand legal scrutiny as a valid exercise of Commerce Clause authority, on March 21 (the same day as passage) the Joint Committee on Taxation released a 157-page &amp;quot;technical explanation&amp;quot; of the bill. This &amp;quot;explanation&amp;quot; grounded the justification for the bill in the tax authority of Congress, and nowhere mentioned commerce.  As Professor Randy Barnett explained in an article on April 29, 2010 in the Wall Street Journal:&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|The word &amp;quot;commerce&amp;quot; appeared nowhere. Instead, the personal mandate is dubbed an &amp;quot;Excise Tax on Individuals Without Essential Health Benefits Coverage.&amp;quot; But while the enacted bill does impose excise taxes on &amp;quot;high cost,&amp;quot; employer-sponsored insurance plans and &amp;quot;indoor tanning services,&amp;quot; the statute never describes the regulatory &amp;quot;penalty&amp;quot; it imposes for violating the mandate as an &amp;quot;excise tax.&amp;quot; It is expressly called a &amp;quot;penalty.&amp;quot;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Professor Barnett then explained that in ''Bailey v. Drexel Furniture'' (1922), &amp;quot;the Supreme Court struck down such a penalty saying, 'there comes a time in the extension of the penalizing features of the so-called tax when it loses its character as such and becomes a mere penalty with the characteristics of regulation and punishment.'&amp;quot;  A subsequent Supreme Court decision, ''U.S. v. Kahriger'' (1953), upheld a punitive tax on gambling based on an express statement in the law that Congress was exercising its power to tax.  No such statement exists in ObamaCare.  ''See also Sonzinsky v. U.S.'' (1937) (&amp;quot;Inquiry into the hidden motives which may move Congress to exercise a power constitutionally conferred upon it is beyond the competency of courts.&amp;quot;).  Professor Barnett noted that the penalty is not enforced as a tax in a customary manner, providing further evidence that ObamaCare is based on the Commerce Clause and not on any taxing authority.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It has also been pointed out that because the penalty applies to inactivity, it is beyond the powers authorized by the [[Sixteenth Amendment]] anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History of Mandatory Coverage==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the early proposals (a predecessor to the one enacted) would create a system to require adults (over age 19, U.S. citizens, not incarcerated) to enroll themselves and dependent children in a plan  through the state-wide Health Help Agency (HHA) unless they provide evidence of enrollment or coverage through Medicare, a health insurance plan offered by the Department of Defense, an employee benefit plan through a former employer (i.e. retiree health plans), a qualified collective bargaining agreement, the Department of Veterans Affairs, or the Indian Health Service.  There may by a religious exemption under this proposal.  Each adult would have the responsibility to enroll each child in a plan. Dependent children include individuals up to age 24 claimed by their parents for deductions in the tax code.&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Penalty.jpg|right|thumbnail|200px|If an individual fails to purchase coverage and does not meet the exceptions or the religious exemption, then under Obamacare a financial penalty may be assessed for non-indigent individuals.]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===History of Penalty for Failure to Purchase Coverage===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If an individual fails to purchase coverage and does not meet the exceptions or the religious exemption, then a financial penalty will be assessed for non-indigent individuals. Under an early proposal for mandatory care, the penalty was calculated by multiplying the number of uncovered months times the weighted average of the monthly premium for a plan in the person’s coverage class and coverage area, plus 15 percent. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fines were to be paid to the HHA of the State in which the person resides. That agency also may establish a procedure to waive the penalty if the penalty poses a hardship. Each State would determine appropriate mechanisms to enforce the requirement that individuals be enrolled.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; http://wyden.senate.gov/issues/Healthy%20Americans%20Act/HAA_Section_by_Section.pdf&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The law that was enacted replaced the state-based approach with a direct penalty to be paid to the United States.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Privacy Rights===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Section 163 of the America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 would allow the government real-time access to a person's bank records - including direct access to bank accounts for electronic fund transfers.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.infowars.com/obama-health-bill-allows-government-real-time-access-to-bank-accounts/ Obama Health Bill Allows Government Real-time Access to Bank Accounts], Kurt Nimmo, Infowars, August 3, 2009.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://kfyi.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=118695&amp;amp;article=5824042 Health Care Bill Would Allow Feds To Snoop in Your Checkbook], KFYI News.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.littlegreenfootballs2.com/2009/07/22/inside-the-health-care-bill-aka-hr3200/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.kfyi.com/cc-common/mlib/622/08/622_1249314906.pdf&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Rationed Care==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Doctors have said they anticipate more people waiting in the waiting-rooms, more phone calls, people upset because they want to be seen now. Doctors will be overbooked. As the health care system brings in more and more patients, the system will be overwhelmed. ObamaCare will be a tremendous burden for doctors in the United States. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
ObamaCare will shorten the amount of time Doctors have with each patient, and lengthen the amount of time patients will have to wait. Dr. Sreedhar Potarazu said that the current bill passed into law will create a scenario where the supply cannot meet the demand. Because the necessary health care reform needs are not included in ObamaCare, there are still no protections for physicians in the medical industry, and doctors are going into the profession to work harder to earn less. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There will be an oversight board where the government looks at what should and shouldn't be given to patients, regardless of medical need. There is going to be rationing of care, according to Dr. Sreedhar Potarazu. Doctors have agreed there will be &amp;quot;rationed care&amp;quot; under ObamaCare.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://beta.video.foxbusiness.com/v/4115101/doctors-respond-to-health-care-reform/?playlist_id=87185 Doctors Respond to Health-Care Reform], FoxBusiness.com, March 18, 2010.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Misinformation==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A webpage at whitehouse.gov entitled &amp;quot;Reality Check&amp;quot; claims that the president's program &amp;quot;would be fully paid for over 10 years, and it would not add one penny to the deficit.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The [[CBO]] is mandated to prepare cost estimates and to show how individual legislative proposals would change spending or revenue levels under current law.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.cbo.gov/aboutcbo/budgetprocess.shtml&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  A July 15 2009 letter from the CBO made this assessment, &lt;br /&gt;
{{Cquote|enacting the proposal would result in a net increase in the federal budget deficits of about $1.0 trillion over the 2010-2019 period.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/103xx/doc10310/06-15-HealthChoicesAct.pdf&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=52306&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, CBO analyses of the House and Senate versions of the health care reform bills show that they would reduce the federal budget deficit by $109 billion &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=421&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and $81 billion &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://cboblog.cbo.gov/?p=387&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; respectively.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Obama Administration health care plan and liberal elitism ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:arrogant_obama.jpg|right|125px|thumbnail|[[Barack Obama]] ]]&lt;br /&gt;
''See also:'' [[Barack Obama and liberal elitism]] and [[Barack Obama and uncharitableness]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 2007, when Obama was running for the office of President of the United States, he promised Americans &amp;quot;health care that is as good as the health care that I have as a member of Congress.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.emaxhealth.com/10/18430.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  However, recently when a newspaper reporter pressed Obama on whether he would commit to Americans having the same health care as congressmen, Obama repeatedly refused to commit to his previous promise of Americans having the same coverage as members of Congress.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvzLDb2igKM&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  President Obama merely claimed Americans would have health care coverage that would &amp;quot;largely match up&amp;quot; with what members of Congress have.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvzLDb2igKM&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  President Obama also stated he is constantly followed around by a personal physician.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvzLDb2igKM&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  The Obama administration's [[Liberal Elite|liberal elitism]] is not unusual when it comes to health care.  For example, [[Belinda Stronach]], a former Member of the Canadian Parliament, chose to have a surgical treatment in the United States rather than be treated in Canada for her condition ([[Canada]] has a [[socialized medicine]] system of health care).&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2007/09/14/canadian-official-refuses-canadian-health-care/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
[[File:MedSybolBlog.jpg|left|150px]]&lt;br /&gt;
Congressman [[John Fleming]] has offered a legislative amendment that would require United States congressmen and senators to take the same health care plan they try to force on others (under proposed legislation they are curiously exempt). Congressman Fleming is encouraging people to go to his website and sign his petition.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://fleming.house.gov/index.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== See Also ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Socialized Medicine]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Obamunism]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Barack_Hussein_Obama#Obama.27s_Medical_Administrator|Obama's Medicare/Medicaid Administrator]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Essay:47 million Americans without health insurance lie]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External Links ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvzLDb2igKM The Obama health care press conference: The Public Option]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.cato.org/dailypodcast/podcast-archive.php?podcast_id=653 Collectivism and Obama, McCain], featuring David Boaz, [[CATO Institute]] Daily Podcast, June 10, 2008.&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_071510/content/01125107.guest.html White House Snaps Fingers and Triggers End of Private Insurance], [[Rush Limbaugh]] on how the Obama Administration just issued new rules requiring health insurance companies to provide free coverage.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{Liberalism}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Totalitarianism]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category: Obama Administration]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Politics]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Socialism]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category: Health]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Homeschooling&amp;diff=764491</id>
		<title>Talk:Homeschooling</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Homeschooling&amp;diff=764491"/>
		<updated>2010-03-23T12:52:38Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: /* Irrelevant information */ Removed a double post by myself&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[/archive 1|Archive 1]] (20th March 2008)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Snipping George Bernard Shaw and Mark Twain==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm removing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[George Bernard Shaw]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Mark Twain]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both men had complex opinions that varied during the course of their lives, but calling them &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot; is a stretch. My reasons for excluding Shaw are given above. As for Mark Twain, he did write a sympathetic book about Joan of Arc. However, his writings are replete with sarcastic and dismissive remarks about organized religion. He refused to let &amp;quot;Letters from the Earth&amp;quot; be published until after his death. In Mark Twain's Letters, we read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:From a gentleman in Buffalo Clemens one day received a letter inclosing an incompleted list of the world's &amp;quot;One Hundred Greatest Men,&amp;quot; men who had exerted &amp;quot;the largest visible influence on the life and activities of the race.&amp;quot;  The writer asked that Mark Twain examine the list and suggest names, adding &amp;quot;would you include Jesus, as the founder of Christianity, in the list?&amp;quot; To the list of statesmen Clemens added the name of Thomas Paine; to the list of inventors, Edison and Alexander Graham Bell.  The question he answered in detail.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Twain's answer was that if the compiler of the list added Jesus, he should also add Satan: &amp;quot;From A.D. 350 to A.D. 1850 these gentlemen exercised a vaster influence over a fifth part of the human race than was exercised over that fraction of the race by all other influences combined.  Ninety-nine hundredths of this influence proceeded from Satan, the remaining fraction of it from Jesus.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Twain has been labelled &amp;quot;deist,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;agnostic,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;atheist.&amp;quot; Gary Sloan suggests ([http://www.writerscramp.ca/archives/mark_twain.htm Mark Twain's Covert War with his Maker]) that he believed in a ''malignant'' God, and says &amp;quot;Viewing Satan as a heroic rebel against the real Archfiend, Twain came to identify with the fallen cherub and often used him as a mouthpiece.&amp;quot; Perhaps his views were so complex that he was all of these things and a Christian at the same time, but he was certainly not a Christian as the term is ordinarily meant. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 20:03, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:But if they were homeschooled, shouldn't they be in the &amp;quot;other&amp;quot; section of the list? [[User:Human|Human]] 18:21, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Sure. That section didn't exist when I removed them; it was a single list of Christians. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 20:32, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Doing. [[User:Human|Human]] 21:25, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The part on Mark Twain doesn't even discuss him being homeschooled, only him completing five grades of school. Also the majority of the people on the list were born before state sponsored public schooling. [[User:Rellik|Rellik]] 22:56, 18 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You're in the wrong place if you want to censor information from the page.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:09, 18 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Marx, Himmler, Oscar Wilde... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would love to see a good, non-ideological reason as to why these names were eliminated from the list. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:08, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why is a non-ideological reason necessary? [[User:DanH|DanH]] 20:10, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
: Because if they were only deleted for ideological reasons that is an admission that the article is intentionally misleading.  --[[User:Merriweather|Merriweather]] 20:13, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, this is an encyclopedia article about homeschooling, right? And a section of that article is dedicated to listing prominent persons who were homeschooled in one way or another, right? And a noted political/economic theorist, an important figure in the Nazi regime, and a great Irish writer all fit both parts of the prominent/homeschooled criteria for that list, so there is no reason to take them off the list...unless including them on the list somehow makes homeschooling look bad; in that case the removal is strictly ideological....which brings into question the intellectual honesty and integrity of the article, and thus the project writ large. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:16, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I undid the ideological deletion as it runs counter to Conservapedia's ethos of censorship of facts see [[Conservapedia:How_Conservapedia_Differs_from_Wikipedia]], Item 9 - &amp;quot;Wikipedia editors who are far more liberal than the American public frequently censor factual information. Conservapedia does not censor any facts that comport with the basic rules.&amp;quot; [[User:Brixham|Brixham]] 14:44, 14 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::DanH, so if you won't provide a non-ideological reason can you tell me why you blatantly go against the Conservapedia differences with Wikipedia? I always thought you seemed a reasonable guy.  [[User:Brixham|Brixham]] 15:19, 14 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The removal was no less ideological than the inclusion of the names. I mean, Himmler? [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:24, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Touché :) [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:28, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:If they are to be put in, I would at the very least ask for a citation. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:26, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Where are the citations that [[Karl Marx]] was homeschooled?  I'll look further for them, but haven't found any yet.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:56, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Problems with this page ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think there are some major problems with this article; not in terms of the content being wildly inaccurate but rather being rather narrow in its focus. If you look at the opening line, it defines homeschool as &amp;quot;a movement consisting of 1-2 million students in the United States&amp;quot;. That's problematic because for a start, because homeschooling is not a &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; (at best, it's a subsection of the conservative movement) and it's definitely not isolated to the United States.&lt;br /&gt;
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Furthermore, I think you're striving a little too hard to give homeschooling as much credit as possible. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against homeschooling. But at no stage in the article have you clearly and accurately defined what homeschooling is, because as I noted, the opening definition is extremely flawed. Consequently, when you get to someone like Charles Dickens, I reckon you're drawing a bit of a long bow. To take the Dickens example: as a history teacher, I feel that we should be quite clear that Charles Dickens was never formally homeschooled in the manner that the article implies and the fact that he didn't receive an education for much of his childhood had nothing to do with such things as &amp;quot;a different, often better, education environment with different, often better, opportunities&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;freedom from liberal and/or atheistic bias and culture in schools&amp;quot;. To simplify things as much as possible, he ceased to have a formal education because his father was imprisoned for financial reasons. And I can tell you that his mother was no great believer in Dickens getting an education: she was the one that forced Dickens to work in a factory. In short, there is no evidence whatsoever that Dickens received any active home education. Dickens is just one example of the wider problem with the entire article, in that you suffer from a poor definition which consequently makes many of the names that you list as &amp;quot;arguably homeschooled&amp;quot; look silly. Even under a solid definition of homeschooling, I don't think people such as Dickens qualify. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 05:36, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: PeterS, you may be an expert in history, but your logic does not follow.  The entry does not care ''why'' someone was homeschooled in listing who was homeschooled.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:55, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think PeterS has a valid point, at least in his first line.  As he points out, the article describes homeschooling as &amp;quot;a movement consisting of 1-2 million students in the United States&amp;quot;.  So for starters, how many on the list were homeschooled ''in the United States''?  Clearly, however, homeschooling is not confined to the U.S., so it's the definition rather than the list that should be changed (as far as my argument goes so far).&lt;br /&gt;
:: I don't agree with him that it's not a movement; I think that's probably an apt term.  But that raises the next problem with the list.  Homeschooling ''as a movement'' is a relatively recent phenomenon, over the last forty years, I would guess.  So anybody on that list who was educated at home more than around forty years ago does not fit the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
:: There's more that I could say, along the lines of PeterS' second paragraph, but perhaps I'll leave it there for the moment.&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:14, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Similar to my comment below, this criticism is overly literal.  But to play that game, &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is the movement, while those who were &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; is a broader category that can go beyond the movement.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:17, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: My immediate response to that, without thinking through it, is that that might make sense, but if it does, at the very least that distinction should be made clear in the article.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:19, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Perhaps the opening part of the article could refer to a general, specific definition of homeschooling. That would clear up some of the conceptual difficulties that become more evident later in the article. '''Then''' you could branch out after that and comment on the &amp;quot;homeschooling movement&amp;quot; in the United States. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:46, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: An addendum to my previous post: I still think my dispute with the Dickens example stands. Just because someone does not receive a formal education at a school, it does not mean they were homeschooled. The facts are these: Dickens was educated as long as was financially possible. When his father was jailed, he was sent to work in a factory, like many financially disadvantaged young people at the time. To my knowledge (and the minutiae of the personal histories of English authors are not my strongest point), there is no evidence that his mother actively homeschooled him. Indeed, all the evidence points to his mother being firmly in favour of him working at a boot-blacking factory ''instead of'' getting an education. If you have evidential proof that this was not the case, feel free to cite it. Once again, if you think my argumentation over this is not valid, then you've got to sort out the definitional problem ASAP. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I've reworded the introduction to:&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove the United States as part of the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
* To define homeschooling as being educated &amp;quot;primarily at home&amp;quot;, rather than &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot;, as the latter could include non-traditional schools.  The existing text later in the article expands on &amp;quot;primarily at home&amp;quot;, to explain the parts that are not at home.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 06:54, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I've also changed references to homeschooling in the prominent people list to &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;taught at home&amp;quot; (as some entries already were) for all persons whose education preceded the formation of the homeschooling movement.  By the way, the entry for Leonardo doesn't actually say that he was taught at home.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 07:09, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Nobody uses the phrase &amp;quot;educated at home,&amp;quot; Philip.  Have you ever heard anyone use it?  An encyclopedia should use common and easily understood terminology, first and foremost.  &amp;quot;Homeschooled&amp;quot; is the term that is used.  Also, I'm not aware of a category that is &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot; but not homeschooled.  Homeschooling is not dependent on the ''physical location'', but on the approach.  Again, I object to the overly literal and [[materialistic]] approach.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:50, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Regarding &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot;...&lt;br /&gt;
::* I'm not in the habit of noting down every phrase I hear, so in one sense I couldn't say whether I've ever heard it, but I would think that I ''have'' heard it.&lt;br /&gt;
::* That's apart from this article, which as I said, already used it, the phrase having been included by Dpbsmith ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=16849]), Hsmom ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=151194], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=151212], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=155576], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=165607],[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=167430]), and NonXtianConservative ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=219041]).&lt;br /&gt;
::* Google returns 106,000 hits for &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot;, so it's fairly common.&lt;br /&gt;
::* And even if none of that was the case, isn't Conservapedia proud of inventing [[Conservapedia terms|new terms]]?&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;Homeschooled&amp;quot; is one of a number of terms that are used.  Another is &amp;quot;taught at home&amp;quot;, which was used by none other than one Aschlafly ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=218738])!  I've used both those terms to avoid too much repetition.&lt;br /&gt;
:: And of course there is the ''reason'' I made those changes, that if homeschooling is defined (correctly, I believe) to be a movement that started in the 1960s, then anybody educated/taught/tutored at home prior to then cannot be said to be &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  That's not to say that their situation is necessarily quite different, but it does mean that the term itself should not be used of them.&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot; depends on what is meant by &amp;quot;traditional&amp;quot;.  It could mean schools that allow the students to decide what they learn, for example, or other schools that take a non-traditional approach in any number of ways.  It could include parent-controlled Christian schools, as ''traditionally'' schools have been controlled by governments or religious denominations.  Yes, those examples are all schools, but they're not necessarily ''traditional'' schools.&lt;br /&gt;
:: If &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is not dependent (to a fair extent) on the physical location, then why is it called &amp;quot;''home''schooling&amp;quot;?  And if it's dependent on the approach, why is it not defined in terms of the approach?  In any case, the previous definition was based on physical location, that being &amp;quot;outside ... schools&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:: How is my definition &amp;quot;overly literal&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
:: And how is is &amp;quot;materialistic&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 09:53, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Philip, you say that &amp;quot;Google returns 106,000 hits for 'educated at home,' so it's fairly common.&amp;quot;  But that is only about 5% of the frequency of use of &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;, which generates nearly 2 million hits on Google.  So &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;fairly common&amp;quot; relative to its counterpart.  It is also meaningless to define ''where'' someone is taught rather than focusing on the approach.&lt;br /&gt;
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::: It is overly literal and materialistic to define homeschooling in terms of the physical location (e.g., at home) rather than the approach (e.g., parental control).  Shall we next define [[Christian]]s based on where they pray?  Of course not.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:28, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Googling &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; without the quotes I get 1.6 million hits (which includes variations such as ''homeschooling'' and ''homeschool'').  Googling &amp;quot;homeschooled ''with'' the quotes, I get 1.49 million hits.  So the percentage is actually about 7.  But I wasn't trying to claim that it's the most common use of the term.  I was pointing out that your claim that &amp;quot;Nobody uses the phrase&amp;quot; is incorrect.  If 7% is &amp;quot;nobody&amp;quot;, then I guess nobody gets homeschooled, as the figure there is &amp;quot;only&amp;quot; 2%.  But clearly 2% still amounts to a large figure, and 7% is also quite sufficient to say that the term is commonly used, even if &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; is considerably more common.&lt;br /&gt;
:::: As I said, the previous definition focused on &amp;quot;where&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the physical location&amp;quot;, except for it being a positive &amp;quot;at home&amp;quot; it was a negative &amp;quot;not at school&amp;quot;.  So my change did not change that the definition was location-based.  However, the new definition that you've now provided is a good one, and I'm reasonably happy with that (it could be tweaked a bit.  For example, it links to the American definition of 'public school' rather than the broader 'school').&lt;br /&gt;
:::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 20:06, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Some thoughts - I use the term &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; quite frequently, as it can include quite a number of educational approaches, only some of which I'd call &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.  In some states in the USA, various terms have very specific meaning.  As an example, in Pennsylvania, students can be &amp;quot;privately tutored&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;receiving homebound instruction&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;enrolled in a cyber-charter school&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;enrolled in a home education program&amp;quot;.  All four of these kinds of students are educated at home - that is, they get much of their education in their own home.  Some folks call all four kinds &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  However, in two of these cases the students are public school students (educated at taxpayer expense, with school-provided curriculum).   Many people would not consider this &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;, at least in the traditional sense, especially as the parents have little say in the curriculum content, which has to meet state standards.  Students can be &amp;quot;privately tutored&amp;quot; by their parent or a hired tutor - for various reasons, some would consider only the former to be &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.   &amp;quot;Home education programs&amp;quot; create a broad umbrella which can encompas a variety of approaches.  For example, home educated students can enroll in homeschool co-ops - essentially &amp;quot;schools for homeschoolers&amp;quot;, and may actually do little if any of their learning in their own home.  In some other states, no one is, legally speaking, homeschooling - they are all enrolled in private schools, some of which are so small as to have only students from a single family.  With the rise of publicly-run and publicly-funded internet-based schools, people are being more careful about how they use the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.  We do not want the general public to assume that anyone who is homeschooling is doing so at significant taxpayer expense, as that could result in an unacceptable level of government oversight and control, so we must be careful with our terminology.  It's tricky stuff.  &lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]], I think that the list of arguably homeschooled people stretches the definition of homeschooling beyond my recognition (as a homeschooling mom).  [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] makes a good case that Dickens was not homeschooled (lack of education does not IMHO equal homeschooling, as discussed previously with George Washington Carver).  I also think Joan of Arc was not homeschooled - her mother taught her prayers and household skills, as most mothers have taught their daughters for centuries, but there is no evidence she gave any academic instruction.  But [[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]], it's your sandbox, so your say goes. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 20:56, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Read an interesting article ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I generally don't follow &amp;quot;homeschooling politics&amp;quot; but I recently read an interesting article. Apparently CA has recently placed a de facto ban on homeschooling. Does that sound like something appropriate for this article? (It would be nice to have something not in list form.) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 16:20, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The government of California has said they will not enforce it, but to have it on the books begs a time when the government may not be as friendly and could decide to crack down.  They didn't allow homeschooling per se, but did it's equivalent by saying a special license was necessary to teach.  Since homeschoolers score higher on standardized tests than their public school counterparts, it is especially troubling to see efforts made to curtail it. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:59, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks for the info, Learn Together! I didn't read it from a primary source, I read it from someone who regurgitated it for me. They said that that they would require extensive training/licencing to be a homeschool teacher, which would essentially kill the movement. The article I read didn't say that CA wasn't going to enforce the ruling (because that would make for a significantly less interesting article for a libertarian newsletter!) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 21:35, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can I object to the statement that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled? It is patently ridiculous, even to a supporter of homeschooling. Here's just a few of the many famous mathematicians from the last few centuries who were not homeschooled: Isaac Newton, Leonhard Euler, George Polya, Carl Friedrich Gauss, John Venn, several of the Bernoulli family, Pierre de Fermat and Johannes Kepler. Off the top of my head, August Möbius was homeschooled only to the age of 13, and some mathematicians were born into European aristocracy who would never even think of allowing their children to be taught in a normal education system, which at the time would have been grossly inferior. Less hyperbole, please! [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 21:00, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Fine, let's look at your examples, several of whom would not be described as &amp;quot;great mathematicians&amp;quot;; others in your list who were [[homeschooled]]; and still more who were schooled but achieved despite it.  Spell out the schooling of each of your examples and you'll find that nearly all of them fall in one of the categories I just identified, and hence my reversion.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:54, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: That last category (&amp;quot;were schooled but achieved despite it&amp;quot;) is of people who were ''not'' homeschooled.  Correct?  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:04, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Well, yes, you are literally correct, but figuratively that category reinforces the thesis.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:13, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: How does &amp;quot;people who were educated in a regular shool and did well&amp;quot; (to rephrase it) support the thesis? (The phrase &amp;quot;despite it&amp;quot; presumes what the thesis is trying to demonstrate, so is a circular argument.) [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:19, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Right, so let's have a look at the first criterion. In other words, &amp;quot;several of whom would not be described as great mathematicians&amp;quot;. Actually, I don't think that's my job. I think if you want to make a statement claiming that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled, you need to prove it. '''You''' need to identify exactly who you would classify as a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; and name them all: or have you already done that? What are your criteria for great mathematicians? Then '''you''' need to identify what percentage of those were homeschooled. '''Then''' you can assert that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled. Now: &amp;quot;others in your list who were homeschooled&amp;quot;. Again, it's a meaningless statement because you have never defined exactly what constitutes a homeschooled person - how many years they need to have been homeschooled - and when people have asked on this talk page, you haven't answered. Next: &amp;quot;still more who were schooled but achieved despite it&amp;quot;. Hmmm... so you're making the assumption that because they were high achievers but attended school, they must have achieved '''despite''' their education? And you're using that justify the contention that homeschooling is better than a regular education? Which means that those who achieved highly did so despite their education? Which means that homeschooling is better than a regular education? Where does the circular nature of that argument end? Can I reiterate: I think that homeschooling is great if people are prepared to do it, and I think that you personally have done a lot of good things in terms of homeschooling. But I don't think it helps our conservative cause if we make silly hyperbolic statements all over the place in a futile gesture to stick it up to the liberals/atheists. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:35, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: PeterS, our list of homeschoolers includes many of the greatest mathematicians.  Please read it.  Your list does not disprove the statement that  nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled.  I invited you to spell out the schooling of those in your list (as I have done for those homeschooled), but so far you've declined to do so.  So your objection does not persuade.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Andrew, I have read the list. But &amp;quot;many of the greatest mathematicians&amp;quot; is a different statement from &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Many&amp;quot; is completely different from &amp;quot;nearly every&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Many&amp;quot; is fairly uncontroversial, because it doesn't directly imply proportionality - it could mean a majority, or it could mean a sizeable minority, or it could mean some arbitrary proportion that you specify. &amp;quot;Nearly every&amp;quot; implies a sizeable majority, probably somewhere in the region of 90-95% - I'm being arbitrary here, but &amp;quot;nearly every&amp;quot; would, in the English language, be somewhere close to 100%. Now, until you can tell us what a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; is, and list all those that you classify as great mathematicians, you cannot say that almost 100% of great mathematicians were homeschooled. If a student came to me with an essay saying something like &amp;quot;nearly every person killed in the Reign of Terror was an aristocrat&amp;quot;, I would underline the statement, ask in the page margin for a citation of the number of people killed in the Terror, ask for a citation of the number of aristocrats killed in the Terror, and ask them to justify why that may have been the case (based on a historical interpretation). Your statement does not match any of these rather non-exhaustive criteria, and it'd be interesting if you could address this. On to the second part of your question: citations for my names. It should not be my job to find citations to help to prove or disprove your unproven statement. And I ask that before you try to pick apart my examples and set arbitrary criteria, you address what I've just said in this paragraph and my previous statements. But I'll do this anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Isaac Newton''' - accounts vary, but all acknowledge that he received a formal education in at least one school. According to this source, [http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/rhatch/pages/01-Courses/current-courses/08sr-newton.htm], he was educated at King's School, Grantham. According to this source, [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Newton.html] he was educated at Free Grammar School, Grantham. Despite the inconsistency in the name, we can conclude that whichever school(s) he attended, he did attend school for most of his childhood. This source [http://www.skyscript.co.uk/newton.html] tells us that while he spent years out of school, he was not homeschooled during that time: indeed, it was felt that &amp;quot;he did not need an education&amp;quot;. Without even requiring criteria, I think we can conclude that the development of Calculus is enough to make him a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot;, not to mention these things called the laws of motion...&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Leonhard Euler''' - this source [http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Leonhard%20Euler] tells us that he went to a low quality school, but the fact stands: he attended school during that time, even if he self-taught and received tutoring at the same time. But even if you choose to disagree with my contention, it doesn't change my objections, noted in all my above comments. Anyway, Euler = great mathematician, no contest, even without criteria.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''George Pólya''' - [http://www.sci.uidaho.edu/polya/biography.htm] says it all. Again, criteria are a problem, because you have never specified any, but Pólya is one of the world's foremost modern contributors to mathematical logic and combinatorics through elements such as the Pólya enumeration theorem and his four principles of mathematical proofs/problem solving.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Carl Friedrich Gauss''' - this source [http://www.mathsong.com/cfgauss/Dunnington/1927/] tells us that he was educated from the age of seven. Case closed. That page also details his mathematical achievements very well in areas such as number theory in particular.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''John Venn''' - [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Venn.html]: went straight through Cholmley's and Islington. End of story. As for being a great mathematician... ever used a Venn diagram?&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Bernoulli family''' - it is much more difficult to find evidence for the Bernoulli family - it is a pattern that people would either be taught at home or sent to a local school before moving onto more prestigious pursuits in secondary school or university. Obviously it's difficult to be consistent in researching across a cross-generational family. I'll gladly ignore this one.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Pierre de Fermat''' - he self-taught mathematics [http://www.surveyor.in-berlin.de/himmel/Bios/Fermat-e.htm], but that came once he had already studied jurisprudence at university and become a councillor. This source [http://www.qerhs.k12.nf.ca/projects/physics/fermat.html] tells us that he did indeed receive a primary and secondary education. This source confirms that he was probably schooled at a Franciscan monastery [http://www.qerhs.k12.nf.ca/projects/physics/fermat.html]. And he was great; no matter what criteria you set.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Johannes Kepler''' - this source [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Kepler.html] tells us that although he helped in his grandfather's inn, he attended a local school and then a seminary. Kepler did of course achieve extraordinary things in astronomy, physics and mathematics including things such as positing the Kepler conjecture (which will probably become a theorem).&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{unsigned|PeterS}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:: OK, your list of great mathematicians who were not homeschooled is dwindling fast.  Working backwards, Kepler evidently was educated while helped at his relative's inn, and he isn't considered a great mathematician anyway.  Fermat was self-taught in mathematics.  The Bernouilli family almost certainly handed down their expertise through homeschooling, and you've conceded dropping them.  Venn was not a great mathematician.  &lt;br /&gt;
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:: We're left with only four:  Newton, Euler, Polya, and Gauss.  I'll check them out now.  It may be that a few of them were not homeschooled, which is why the claim is not that every great mathematician was homeschooled, but that nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled.  But I'm curious to investigate the education of these four.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:47, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Newton apparently did not attend school until age 10, making him another homeschooler.  [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Newton.html] --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:51, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The fact that Newton did not attend school until the age of 10 does not make him a homeschooler.  Indeed the source you cited says nothing about what his education was before Free Grammar School, if he had one.  A homeschooling education seems unlikely, as the source says that Newton's grandfather, whom he was living with, practically ignored Newton, and that Newton hated his mother and step-father.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 23:16, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Andrew Schlafly, you claim to be an expert in everything yet you are totally incapable of answering a simple request of another person is only trying to improve your encyclopaedia. I have spent several screenfuls of this discussion page trying to ask you two '''very simple questions''', which shouldn't be too difficult whether the answerer is homeschooled or not. (1) '''What is your definition of a great mathematician?''' and (2) '''What exactly constitutes homeschooling?''' Your page does neither. Under your (highly elusive) criteria, spending a couple of years at home while of primary school age is sufficient to qualify as homeschooling. Under your criteria, receiving private tutoring while simultaneously attending school daily is sufficient to qualify as homeschooling. Under your criteria, a mathematician is great only if you say so, because under your criteria, Johannes Kepler and John Venn cease to become a great mathematician. Schlafly, this encyclopaedia will only live up to its name - Conservapedia - when it becomes an accurate reflection of a conservative viewpoint. At the moment, its Schlaflipedia: if you don't want to answer a reasonable question, you block your ears. That's also why you lock Conservapedia from editing when there aren't sysops around to jump on people who are trying to improve articles. You are driving away conservatives who want to make a difference but can't because Sleep-ly (grab a German dictionary if you don't get the pun) doesn't want his personal authority challenged. I am a conservative on every issue - foreign policy, economic policy, social policy et al - but that won't keep me at Conservapedia. You are harming the good work of real conservatives who deal in facts and proofs. I should note that I don't expect this comment to be here tomorrow; I expect that it will  be &amp;quot;archived&amp;quot; in the rubbish bin, along with my user account. &amp;quot;Godspeed&amp;quot; to anyone who ever tries to object to Schlafly's perverse logic and warped ideas. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 05:41, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: PeterS, your comments are becoming increasingly long-winded, incoherent and insulting.  Get to the point succinctly and politely, and I'll respond to you.  Otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time.  By the way, I don't have a definition for &amp;quot;great mathematician,&amp;quot; nor is one necessary for such a term.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:24, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Then you've just conceded his point.  If you don't define what constitutes a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; then you can not define the set of &amp;quot;great mathematicians&amp;quot; therefore you can not legitimately claim that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled&amp;quot; be cause it is completely unquantifiable.  Like-wise, you refuse to define what constitutes &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  For you, it appears to mean anyone who ever learned anything outside of a traditional public school system education from K-12 and college... but this ignores the fact that such traditional structure has not been commonplace since the dawn of history.  Many of the examples you give are from several hundred years ago when this structure was not in plaace in the manner it is to day, yet you conflate any kind of home learning in that time period with homescholling as it is today... the two are not necessarily equivalent.  You want them to be, in order to push your ideology.  Also, discounting any example given as either &amp;quot;not a great mathematician&amp;quot; or labelling them &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; because they have some minor period of time that they were not traditionally schooled seems a prime example of either conservative deceit or deliberate ignorance.  And, in case you are actually interested in true facts, and a quantifiable definition of great mathematicians... here's at least one list of the 100 greatest per Mathematics Teacher magazine from 1962:  afrodita.rcub.bg.ac.yu/~flora/100.html  You might note that Kepler is among the names listed. [[User:QNA|QNA]] 11:22, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Taking a look at the first 10 names on the list:&lt;br /&gt;
*Newton - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Leibnitz - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Lagrange - self taught&lt;br /&gt;
*Euler - attended schooler and studied under Bernoulli&lt;br /&gt;
*Laplace - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Euclid - unkown, though he did probably attend Plato's Academy&lt;br /&gt;
*Gauss - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Archimedes - his schooling is also unknown&lt;br /&gt;
*Descartes - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Cardano - homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
:So 5 of the top 10 were definitely not homeschooled.  One (Cardano) definitely was,  one's (Lagrange's) status depends on how you define homeschooling, one (Euler) had both simultaneously, and two are unknown.  Do you really want to continue the claim that nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled?  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 13:36, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: You don't say, but perhaps your &amp;quot;list&amp;quot; is from the 1962 ranking by &amp;quot;Mathematics Teacher.&amp;quot;  Nearly all the entries are (oddly) prior to the 19th century, and it's likely that most of the referenced individuals were homeschooled.  I've already checked Newton, as explained above, and he did not enter a school under after age 10.  So I don't find anything credible about your statements.  If you want to provide details about the schooling of those to support a claim they were not homeschooled, then we can look at your detail.  Otherwise, your objection is not persuasive.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:18, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If you really count ''being schooled at home until only about fourth or fifth grade and then speding the rest of his schooling years being taught in formal schools'' as homeschooling (which seems to be a poor definition), then yes, Newton was homeschooled.  However, even in modern times, alegbra isn't even taught that young, so how much math schooling Newton could have received before the age of 10 is questionable.  As for the others: &lt;br /&gt;
::*Leibnitz: &amp;quot;At the age of seven, Leibniz entered the Nicolai School in Leipzig&amp;quot;[http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Leibniz.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Laplace: &amp;quot;Laplace attended a Benedictine priory school in Beaumont-en-Auge, as a day pupil, between the ages of 7 and 16.&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Laplace.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Gauss: &amp;quot;At the age of seven, Carl Friedrich Gauss started elementary school&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Gauss.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Descartes: &amp;quot;Descartes was educated at the Jesuit college of La Flèche in Anjou. He entered the college at the age of eight years&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Descartes.html] &lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we have been providing sources, you have yet to provide a source showing that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled. [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 15:52, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Our entry has numerous examples of great mathematicians who were homeschooled.  Have you even read it yet???&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: For all the bluster by critics, we are down to only four great mathematicians who may not have been homeschooled:  Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss and Descartes.  But even your description of those four are not persuasive, and raise more questions than they answer.  By age 7 or 8, great mathematicians are often quite a bit along already in their skills.  And what did these four mathematicians do after they entered school?  Laplace, for example, was apparently taught mathematics in a special way by his uncle in connection with the school. [http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0025-5572(194902)2%3A33%3A303%3C1%3AL%3E2.0.CO%3B2-%23] --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:24, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::First of all, I highly resent the use of the word bluster.  Second of all, you've forgotten Euler, Polya, Kepler, and Venn, mentioned above.  Third, here are more of from the list of the top 100:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Legendre: Went to college in Paris, before that schooling unstated [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Legendre.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Monge: attended Oragion college before going to Lyons at 16 [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Monge.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*D'Alembert: attended private school, then attended Collège des Quatre Nations [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/D'Alembert.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Fourier: first studied at Pallais's school [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Fourier.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Napier: homeschooled until age of 13 after (interestingly enough) his uncle sent his father a letter: &amp;quot;I pray you, sir, to send your son John to school; over to France or Flanders; for he cannot learn well at home&amp;quot; [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Napier.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Viete: attended school in Fontenay-le-Comte [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Viete.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Maclaurin: his family moved to Dumbarton specifically for the attendence of school [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Maclaurin.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Cavalieri: studied at a Jesuit monestary and the University of Pisa [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Cavalieri.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Wallis: attended school in Ashford and Tenterden [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Wallis.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Tartaglia: attended school from the age of four [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Tartaglia.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Poncet: attended Lycee Imperial [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Victor_Poncelet]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Chasles: attended Lycee Imperial [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Chasles.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Cremona: educated at Ginnasio in Pavia [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Cremona.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Boscovich: attended Ragusinum starting at age 9 [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Boscovich.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Lambert: attended school in Mulhouse [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Lambert.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Barrow: attended Charterhouse and Felstead [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Barrow.html]&lt;br /&gt;
:::::These are just ones whose non-homeschooled education can be confirmed.  This is also only from the top 50 of this one list.  Many of the top 50 not mentioned weren't necessarily homeschooled either.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 18:20, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Looking back, others and I have listed 24 mathematicians not homeschooled (Barrow, Boscovich, Cavalieri, Chasles, Cremona, D'Alembert, Descartes, Euler, Fourier, Gauss, Kepler, Lambert, Laplace, Legrende, Leibnitz, Maclaurin, Monge, Napier, Polya, Poncet, Tartaglia, Venn, Viete, Wallis).  Your article lists 11 who were homeschooled (Cauchy, Chebyshev, Erdos, Fermat, Galois, Hamilton, Jacobi, Mandelbrot, Pascal, Poincare, Riemann) (though I might have missed one or two) [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 20:04, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Were you unable to provide details about your four mathematicians (Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss and Descartes) as discussed above?  It seems you're now resorting to quantity rather than quality.  I've already debunked several claims among your new list of 24, and at least half of them fail to qualify as &amp;quot;great&amp;quot; mathematicians.  Unless you can back up your claim with respect to the four mentioned above, I'm going to move on confident that the great mathematicians were almost all homeschooled.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;By the way, I don't have a definition for &amp;quot;great mathematician,&amp;quot;&amp;quot; are your own words.  So why can't I call them great mathematicians?  I don't have a definition either, but I think all of them are great, and I certainly think a publication entitled &amp;quot;Mathematics Teacher&amp;quot; is more qualified than you to determine who qualifies as great.  Of Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss, and Descartes, only for Laplace did you provide any evidence against formal education being their primary source of education, while I have sources that outright state that they attended a formal school of some kind.  Also, I looked at your source for Laplace and I can't see beyond the first page, which states merely that Laplace's uncle was on the staff of his school and kindled his interest in mathematics, not that his uncle actually taught him in a special form.  My previous citations for their education still stand.  If you have any real proof that their education was still homeschooling of some sort after they entered a formal school, please enlighten me.  Also, if you have debunked some of my claims, would you be so kind as to show some proof for those as well? [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 21:10, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Sorry, ZTak, I'm not going to do your research for you.  You haven't provided a single mathematician with evidence that he was never homeschooled.  I've provided in this entry countless examples of great mathematicians who were.  I'll take a look at your other three examples, but am confident that nearly all of them were homeschooled also.  A mathematician is unlikely to develop to greatness without the head start, independence, encouragement and flexibility that homeschooling uniquely provides.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:18, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Now you're moving the goalposts.  I have to prove they were '''never''' homeschooled?  That's a universal negative.  I can't ever prove that.  That would be like asking me to prove that none of them were ever abducted by aliens who fed knowledge directly into their brain.  I can't prove that such abudctions never happened.  I can prove, which I did, that their main education was at some sort of formal school.  I proved that for Legendre, Monge, D'Alembert, Fourier, Napier, Viete, Maclaurin, Cavalieri, Wallis, Tartaglia, Poncet, Chasles, Cremona, Boscovich, Lambert, and Barrow.  Finally, you still have yet to prove your statement that Laplace was specially educated by his uncle.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 22:03, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I guess I can qualify too, eh?  I wrote a theorem for [[Synthetic Division]]--which had many, many corollaries--and I was &amp;quot;fake schooled&amp;quot; up to 2nd grade mathematics to substitute for missing the preschool deadline.  (&amp;quot;fake school&amp;quot; is what I called homeschooling at that age). -^_^- [[User:Kektklik|Fuzzy&amp;amp;#124;AFK]] 22:10, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Opinions ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This article voices personal opinions more so than fact with a conservative point of view, directly in line with the Conservapedia Commandments. Opinions? I can find examples in the text if you would like. [[User:Adg2011|Adg2011]] 20:55, 1 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sufiah Yusof ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Homeschooled prodigy Sufiah Yusof, who went to Oxford at 13, has been found working as a prostitute ten years later. Will this mentioned in the article? Doubt it. [http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/the-human-cost-of-trying-to-make-geniuses/2008/04/04/1207249453810.html] [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 21:03, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Parents who send a 13-year-old girl off to a [[liberal]] college should have their heads examined.  Your link supports that decision as the cause of this tragedy.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:30, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: The [[University of Oxford]] is a &amp;quot;liberal college&amp;quot;?  I see that it is also &amp;quot;One of the most influential universities in history...&amp;quot;.  At least that's what the Conservapedia article says.  Fancy that!  Pretty good going for a mere liberal college.  --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 22:38, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Yes on both points, and there's no contradiction there.  Hello, Oxford is [[liberal]] today.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:04, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Hello.  On what basis do you say that?  --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 23:07, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Ah, time for [[liberal denial]], I see.  If you can identify a half-dozen [[conservative]] professors at Oxford, then I'd be astonished.  I'm confident you can't.  Meanwhile, observe all the [[atheists]] and [[liberals]] there, and how students like Christopher Hitchens became Trotskyists while at Oxford. [http://www.experiencefestival.com/political_views].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:46, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Schlafly, when you become a qualified psychologist, then perhaps you will be in a position to make your insensitive and blasé judgements about this case. I challenge you to find a single reputable psychologist who will tell you that Sufiah Yusof's present condition is caused not by pushy parenting, &amp;quot;hot house&amp;quot; homeschooling, or excessive media exposure (or a combination of the three) but instead caused by attending an institution which you claim is a hotbed for &amp;quot;liberal deceit&amp;quot;. Or perhaps you'd instead like to play a game of Schlafly word bingo and throw in mentions of [[homosexuality]], [[intelligent design]], [[liberal hypocrisy]], [[liberal hysteria]] and [[liberal myths]] in your next post. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 19:32, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::: Peter, you're clueless about the dangers of sending a 13-year-old girl off to a [[liberal]] college.  If you think it takes a credentialed psychologist to explain that, then you have a lot to learn.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:52, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::: Sorry, I can't think what came over me: for a moment, I thought that facts and evidence were actually valued in this place. The issue here isn't that she was sent to a ''liberal'' college at age 13. It is that she was sent to a college '''at all''' at age 13. It is that she was hot-housed (a form of extremely rigorous homeschooling) and driven mercilessly by a pushy and overambitious father. It is that her father also did everything he could to overwhelm her with media attention. You boast on the Homeschooling page about people who went to university at age 13 or 14 and then became great mathematicians or philosophers or whatever. But the simple fact is that large numbers of homeschooled prodigies do '''not''' reach such pinnacles and instead have their lives ruined by the reckless practices of their parents. You're right. It doesn't take a credentialed psychologist to explain this scenario: Sufiah Yusof herself describes her experience at the hands of '''her parents''' (that's right, '''not''' Oxford's oppressive liberal regime) as a living hell and says that she has &amp;quot;enough of 15 years of physical and emotional abuse&amp;quot;.[http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/child-prodigy-working-as-a-prostitute/2008/04/04/1207249460601.html?page=2] Happy now? (I doubt it.) [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 06:09, 8 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Difficulties ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This article looks pretty strange to me, since it includes people who lived centuries ago, such as Leonardo Da Vinci.  But my understanding of the homeschooling movement indicates that it exists only in contrast to public schooling... and widespread public schooling is a much more recent innovation.  In the United States, for example, public schooling began shortly before the twentieth century.&lt;br /&gt;
Certainly many of these individuals belong on the page, but it seems disingenuous to claim that Benjamin Franklin was &amp;quot;homeschooled,&amp;quot; for example, since at that time such was still mostly the norm.  This makes it quite distinct from the modern era, wherein homeschooling is very unusual (speaking statistically, not as a value judgment).&lt;br /&gt;
By the same token, I wouldn't call him &amp;quot;public schooled,&amp;quot; either, naturally.  But this article blurs the line between modern homeschooling (a distinct &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; in opposition to national institutionalized public schools) and the simple sparcity of formal schooling in the centuries before government public schools.  Given the fact that the owner of this site, Andy Schlafly, is a well-known homeschooling advocate, indeed even teaching homeschooling classes on the site, and his personal view is endorsed by most of the sysops on the site, I think this gives the appearance (if not the fact) of trying to deliberately smudge the dividing line between the two eras.  Such an appearance or fact should be corrected.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another criticism might be made in that the list of &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; individuals is very liberal with that assignation.  I would suggest a clarifying sentence at the fore of the list, mentioning what the requirements for the list are... currently they are simply described as being &amp;quot;educated at home,&amp;quot; which is a very broad statement.  It should be clarified that these are individuals who have spent any portion of their youth or young adulthood being educated at home, since many of them spent years in formal education.&lt;br /&gt;
Please consider each of the above points separately on their own merit.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 22:59, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Your comments, though thoughtful, seem to reject the definition of homeschooling:&lt;br /&gt;
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::Homeschooling is a movement in which students receive education from a parent or guardian, or instructors acting under the direction of a parent or guardian, rather than from certified teachers in a formal school setting like a public school.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Though you implicitly seem to reject this definition, you don't propose an alternative.  Note that this definition applies whenever a formal school setting existed, which goes back at least to [[ancient Greece]], before Christ.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:13, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::As I note, there exists a generally understood distinction in most people's minds between the modern homeschooling &amp;quot;movement,&amp;quot; as it is described on the page, and the previous lack of public schools.  If you request a different definition, then I would suggest something such as &amp;quot;Homeschooling is the modern movement in which students... etc.&amp;quot;, and then the examples of individuals &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; previous to a certain date (1850 or so would seem reasonable, as that was about when public schooling came into being in America to the best of my knowledge) could be moved to a different section.  This new section could have the heading connecting the modern homeschooling movement with the tradition of home schooling which existed prior to the alternative of public schooling.  This would allow all of the names and such to remain on the page, and keep that connection which reflects positively on homeschooling (the clear intent) without being quite so absurd.  Would those changes satisfy you?--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 00:12, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::: I agree with TomMoore, and am very disappointed that Andy has ignored the previous discussion on this page and reverted to terminology that was changed because of these very concerns, and after discussion.  The article also says that &amp;quot;homeschooling began in the 1960s&amp;quot;, and whilst I don't know the exact date, or even the exact decade, I would think that the 1960s would be about right.  So people educated outside schools centuries or even millennia ago cannot properly be called &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::: (Actually, since writing that, I've been done a little research.  &amp;quot;Dr. Raymond S Moore, the inspiration to many homeschoolers of recent generations&amp;quot; started homeschooling in the 1940s.  The book &amp;quot;No More Public School&amp;quot;, published in 1972, is described as a &amp;quot;Pioneering how-to book about homeschooling, from the days when homeschooling had a tenuous legal status and the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; hadn't been coined&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
::: If the article is meant to be about the modern movement, then those older examples don't belong here.  If the page is meant to be about people educated outside the school system, then the title and content should be altered to reflect that, and the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; should be dropped for those older examples.&lt;br /&gt;
::: It is true that schools have existed as far back as ancient Greece (at least), but that doesn't mean that they have always existed since then, nor in all societies.  For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.  In other words, for much of history, being educated at home (or etc.) was the normal way that people got educated, and was not the exception, and was certainly not called &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 03:58, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Is it not the case that homeschooling in the contemporary sense exists in opposition to, or any rate as distinct from, 'compulsory' state education? One can only 'opt out' of a system if that system exists in the first place; and therefore one could say homeschooling o0nly became a valid concept once education of children was made compulsory by the state. Thus in the UK 'homeschooling' would only be a realistic concept after the Education Act of 1871 which decreed that all children should receive elementary education. That is not to say, of course, that children were not educated at home before then; but the notion of 'homeschooling' as a 'political' act or act of resistance against the perceived shortcomings (educational, moral, religious) of the official education system can only date from that point. [[User:Mediaevalist|Mediaevalist]] 07:14, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Homeschooling must be as old as schooling itself.  There's no way around that.  Just as pacifism is as old as war, and adultery is as old as marriage, and theft is as old as private property, and literacy is as old as the Bible.  The modern homeschooling ''movement'' can be traced to the 1960s, just as anti-war ''movements'' can have modern beginnings.  I've changed a phrase in the entry to reflect this.  Thanks. &lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Philip says, &amp;quot;For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.&amp;quot;  I doubt that, as schooling was often done by religions independent of wealth.  I doubt that [[ancient Greece]] had a financial test for admitting students to its fine schools.  But, regardless, I think that is an overly material view of the concept of homeschooling, which refers to a decision made by parents to eschew common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning that they believe is more beneficial to the child.  That type of decision is as old as families and education.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:18, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: &amp;quot;Modern&amp;quot; schooling was begun, I believe, by Christian churches.  &amp;quot;Sunday School&amp;quot; was not religious education for children while the adults listened to the sermon, but &amp;quot;secular&amp;quot; education on the only day that the children were not at work in the mines, fields, or factories.  Eventually, this church-sponsored education was taken over by governments, but prior to the churches doing this, there was little if anything in the way of formal education.  Ancient Greece may have been different; I don't know, but I wasn't trying to suggest that schooling started off only for the rich; I actually meant that this likely came ''later'' than Greece, although even in Greece I ''suspect'' that it was not for everyone.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: But more to the point is what Mediaevalist said above, that homeschooling is an 'opting out' of the official education system, and as such ''can't'' exist until there is an official education system.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: Your change to the homeschooling ''movement'' starting in the 1960s doesn't help:  The first line of the article defines homeschooling ''as the movement''.  Previously the article said (in effect), &amp;quot;Homeschooling is a movement... Homeschooling began in the 1960s&amp;quot;  Now, it says (in effect) &amp;quot;Homeschooling is a movement...that began in the 1960s&amp;quot;.  So pre-1960s examples are still not &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:21, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::: Good point about the flaw in the definition.  Homeschooling should not be defined as a movement, and I've deleted that reference.  There is a &amp;quot;homeschooling movement.&amp;quot; Just as a pacifist does not have to belong to an antiwar movement, a homeschooler need not belong to any movement.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::: Homeschooling does not require &amp;quot;opting out&amp;quot; and to limit the definition to that is to relegate it perpetually to the fringe.  Homeschooling does typically entail rejecting a formalized and popularized schooling system, but as already noted such systems have existed at least since [[ancient Greece]].  Surely the ancient [[Hebrews]] and [[Christians]] also had church-based schooling systems.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:56, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: I don't particularly agree with modern homeschooling and all those older examples being lumped in together, but I have to admit that the article is probably more consistent and less objectionable now.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: I guess that the answer to whether or not the ancient Hebrews and Christians had church-based schooling systems depends on what you mean by &amp;quot;schooling&amp;quot;, but I think the answer is essentially &amp;quot;no&amp;quot;, they didn't.  That is, there might well have been ''some'' things that children learnt in church, but as far as I know, there were no formalised schools run by anyone for the most part, for thousands of years.  Almost all education was done directly by parents, and even this was pretty limited, with the result that most could not even read and write.  Sure, no doubt they learnt various life skills, but even this would not have been in any sort of formalised schooling in the home, let along in schools.  It was probably more in the form akin to apprenticeships, that is, children learnt their parent's trade by helping their parents in their work.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 11:26, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::: I appreciate your first paragraph, but must disagree with your second.  I'm sure the ancient [[Hebrews]] had schooling just as the [[ancient Greeks]] did, and probably many other ancient civilizations did also.  How else could Pharisees and other members of the priestly class be trained?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::: There is a modern (and [[liberal]]) tendency to look down on our ancient ancestors.  All indications, however, are that they were ''smarter'' than people today.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 12:54, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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(Unindented)&lt;br /&gt;
This is a minor improvement, Mr. Schlafly, but I still think the problem exists.  Let me address your replies.&lt;br /&gt;
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''Homeschooling must be as old as schooling itself.  There's no way around that.  Just as pacifism is as old as war, and adultery is as old as marriage, and theft is as old as private property, and literacy is as old as the Bible.  The modern homeschooling ''movement'' can be traced to the 1960s, just as anti-war ''movements'' can have modern beginnings.  I've changed a phrase in the entry to reflect this.  Thanks.''&lt;br /&gt;
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That is not necessarily true.  I would argue that homeschooling as a concept, as it is understood by the vast majority of people, would be construed as the deliberate choice to teach a child at home as specifically opposed to public schooling.  This latter part of the definition is the one missing from this article's approach to the matter, since most people (as indicated here) disagree with the idea that anyone in history taught at home was &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; in the sense in which the idea is understood today.  I think this is the real substantive point, in fact, behind this disagreement.  You should take note, I think, of that fact that both I (as liberal as they come) and PJR (as conservative as they come, and your most intelligent sysop) are neither of us opposed to homeschooling, and yet we feel that this article is misleadingly favorable to the practice, whereas you (a strong advocate) feel it is not.  Perhaps you might want to step back from this one, and a few other outside opinions on the matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Tom, you overrely on your perceptions of what others think (see point 11 in [[liberal style]]).  Homeschooling is not defined in terms of [[public school]].  The view of homeschoolers towards public school is varied, and public schools themselves have changed throughout history and are different in different locations today.  Homeschooling is a parental approach to child-rearing that would exist regardless of the form taken by public schools.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I assume from your aspersion that you are declining to take a step back from this, despite the fact that you are extraordinarily partisan to one side in this discussion?  That is somewhat disappointing.&lt;br /&gt;
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::It seems to me that it is only reasonable to rely on &amp;quot;perceptions of what others think&amp;quot; when it comes to interpreting the meaning of words.  Words mean only what they are agreed-upon to mean; this is why meanings shift over time in a sometimes-dramatic manner (such as &amp;quot;geek&amp;quot;).  &amp;quot;Homeschooling&amp;quot; to you seems to mean &amp;quot;any alternative schooling by non-certified individuals at home.&amp;quot;  That is a very reasonable interpretation, and I am not saying it is ''wrong.'' I am just saying that the vast majority of people specifically identify homeschooling with the more modern &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; (as it was put previously), not with your broader definition, and that should be taken into account.  Or, if you want to change the way people think about it, you should specifically contradict the colloquial definition and state more explicitly the difference between the customary understanding and your usage.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Tom, you're not even quoting me correctly and still don't seem to understand the essence of homeschooling.  Please expand your horizons and get to know some homeschooling families, and read about those who have homeschooled in history.  Then we can chat again.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:54, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I thought I was quoting you adequately, and apologize if there was some error in the above quote (&amp;quot;perceptions of what others think&amp;quot;).  It was copy-and-pasted from your own words, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::If the definition of homeschooling I give above is also inaccurate, that is possible, but it is not a quote, it was an attempt to sum up for use in our dialog.  Please substitute your whole definition above, if that helps.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I am not sure what you mean about &amp;quot;expanding my horizons;&amp;quot; I was good friends with an enormous family that homeschooled all their children and then sent them to the University of Stuebenville.  They were about as devout a set of devotees to homeschooling as can be imagined.  I know them and their views, as well as your own, quite well.  That's why I opened this conversation, to address a gross shortcoming in the article.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::The &amp;quot;homeschooled in history&amp;quot; item is the crux of the issue here, and so I strongly urge you not to dismiss me as you have.  My concerns are stated clearly and substantively several times: I feel that the article blurs the divide between the commonly-held perspective of what &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is, and a historical although perhaps technically accurate analogue, and that this blurring is encyclopedic.  It is easy to brush me aside with personal remarks about how I need to &amp;quot;expand my horizons,&amp;quot; but clearly less easy to address my concerns.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 20:03, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Tom, I'm not going to spend all night discussing this with you, and your account will be blocked if you just talk here.  You misquoted the definition of homeschooling and seem blinded by your contact with an unusual single homeschooling family.  If you continue to think that people today are very different from people hundreds of years ago, and homeschool for very different reasons, you're wrong.  Meet more homeschoolers and read more history; you can do both on this site.  Then let's chat further.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:11, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I have made substantive edits tonight, such as to [[Alice and Wonderland]], [[Beowulf]], and [[Mind/body]], so I am not worried about being blocked for &amp;quot;just talk[ing] here,&amp;quot; since I am not doing so.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I am sorry if it appears as though I misquoted the definition.  As I said scrupulously above, you may substitute the whole of your definition if you would like, since I was simply quoting it as I referred to it, rather than suggesting it as some sort of change.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Please, do not continue to speculate as to my personal knowledge of homeschooling.  That is not the ''only'' homeschooling family I know, I was mentioning them only to let you know that your assertion that I was not familiar with any was entirely wrong.  I am an Eagle Scout, and many of those in my troop were homeschooled.  I assure you, I am fully familiar with the concepts and people involved, and it doesn't change my considered opinion of the article at all.  How would it, after all?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I really am only trying to get a firm conclusion on the matter to which I have referred you: the discrepancy between your definition of homeschooling, which includes all such schooling throughout history, and the common understanding which generally is understood as referring to the modern movement.  Please do not block me by way of avoiding this matter, I am quite serious and think I have presented a very compelling case.  If you personally do not have time (since you say you don't want to spend all night on it), you have numerous other sysops.  Ordinarily, of course, I would just make the edits myself, but it is pretty clear that on topics like this no one is allowed to edit anything that might be disagreed with, without checking with an authority figure first.  Perhaps one of the other active sysops - Conservative, Croicite, Ed Poor, or the like - might also weigh in, since Phillip J Rayment concurred with me earlier along with another user?--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 20:32, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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''Philip says, &amp;quot;For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.&amp;quot;  I doubt that, as schooling was often done by religions independent of wealth.  I doubt that [[ancient Greece]] had a financial test for admitting students to its fine schools.  But, regardless, I think that is an overly material view of the concept of homeschooling, which refers to a decision made by parents to eschew common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning that they believe is more beneficial to the child.  That type of decision is as old as families and education.''&lt;br /&gt;
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But that type of decision is not being described in the article.  If you want to broaden it to include that, I think it would be appropriate to do so.  The key would be specificity, then; the article should be changed to reflect that this is a list of people who have &amp;quot;eschew[ed] common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning&amp;quot;, very different from what most people think when they read the article currently (which presents the matter as synonymous with modern homeschooling).&lt;br /&gt;
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: Modern homeschoolers are no different from ancient ones in rejecting formal schools.  We define the term homeschooling and I doubt many would argue with it.  The people listed satisfy that definition.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The people do satisfy the definition, but I disagree that many would not argue with the blurring between modern homeschooling and historical &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; that is engaged in.  At the very least, your change in the customary usage should be acknowledged.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Consider, for example, the fact that a large proportion of wealthy children were &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; in Europe for centuries, in the sense that they were tutored in their home by professionals.  This was the norm for the wealthy, yet your definition includes such as being &amp;quot;homeschooled,&amp;quot; contradictory to the common perception of the matter.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 15:43, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: No, the definition is clear that homeschooling rejects the approach of &amp;quot;certified&amp;quot; teachers (or its equivalent).  Wealthy children in Europe who were schooled in a formal setting by certified teachers (or its equivalent) should not be included; those taught by their parents, relatives, or non-certified teachers (or its equivalent) should be included.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I agree, the definition is clear, but it is only natural to assume that when one is speaking of &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; that one is speaking of what most people know of with the concept, as explained above.  At the very least, explicate further.  Otherwise at least the appearance of an attempt to deceive exists, even if that is not the case.&lt;br /&gt;
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::And again, I would urge you to step back from this and let other sysops handle it; it's only appropriate.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Pornography ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I'm deleting the reference to homeschooling being remedy for pornogrpahy addiction.  I read a study earlier this month which showed that there was actually a higher chance of a child becoming involved in pornography and other unsavoury internet based activities if home schooled.  Of course the study applied to equally supervised children, which is, of course, rarely the case in homeschooling.  Still rather than promote complacancy and information which is empirically wrong I felt the need to delete the reference.  I can find the name of the study if anyone needs it, but as far as I know there is no digital reference.  {{unsigned|ObamaSharma}}&lt;br /&gt;
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== To the &amp;quot;Disadvantages of Homeschooling&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think one of the major disadvantages that is not mentioned in the article (though it is generally touched on) involves a certain kind of social interaction. The article, as it is right now, implies that the social development that homeschooling can stunt is more or less limited to making friends, having conversations, etc. (on top of peer pressure, bullying, intimidation, etc. as mentioned). I feel it is important to include '''Tolerance''', '''Working together in spite of differences''', and '''Compromise to accomplish like goals'''. I think it goes without saying that we all have had to work very closely with people we've disagreed with on almost everything, and elitism (which I never thought to be a characteristic of homeschooling until I came to Conservapedia) can stall progress. I think mentioning parents enrolling their kids in social organizations can satisfy compromise to accomplish like goals, but I question how much the kids would be exposed to other cultures and races, that would develop tolerance, since these organizations often have many class and moral characteristics in common. I know many of the conservative sysops on this page &amp;quot;Don't believe in tolerance when it compromises truth&amp;quot; but I think we can still agree that different races, classes, and faiths can still produce good people that certainly don't deserve being inferior to the stereotypical american WASP. Please keep in mind that I'm not talking about anything other than the physical world, so please take any arguments of what Jesus said or what will happen to their souls if they don't accept Him elsewhere. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 17:17, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:If public schools were about these things, then I would agree.  Unfortunately what you have is positions being forced upon children in the name of 'tolerance'.  As long as you agree with them then you're fine.  If you don't -- look out.  Homeschooling is about allowing children to avoid having a value system pushed upon them from a &amp;quot;community&amp;quot; that has decided it already knows what is right and will tell you to accept the same -- even against your own family. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:20, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::That's a good point, and I can concede to it. Could not the argument be made that the value system that the family lives by (which could include racist, elitism, exclusivity, among other things) be more aggressively pushed onto the subordinate child? I find that I'm a little uncomfortable with people who were raised with limited exposure to different ideas and cultures, but I am no expert on the subject, as I'm sure is apparent, which is why I'm speaking here instead of trying to edit the page. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 17:17, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Anything can be misused, and certainly homeschooling ''can'' have these problems if it is not done properly, but you seem to be seeing government schools through rose-coloured glasses.  When I was in primary school, there was some racism there (although I didn't understand what it was at the time), but I remember none of that from Sunday School and church.  Many homeschooling families are Christians, and my point is that they can get many of these social interactions via church and church-related activities, and that's likely to be a better environment for them than a government school environment that often has undesirable values.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 23:11, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::Perhaps I'm simply recalling my own experiences, which were better than most since I attended one of the better elementary schools in my county before finishing elementary and middle school in the fundamental system, and my high school was one of the better schools in the county as well. I suppose it all should be taken on a case by case basis, and my problem then is with the elitism (and in some cases blatant discrimination against public schools) exhibited around Conservapedia instead of having any problems with homeschooling. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 11:46, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Capolavoro046, I read as far as your absurd accusation of &amp;quot;elitism&amp;quot; above.  There is nothing about homeschooling or this site that is &amp;quot;elitist&amp;quot; and I suspect that ideology is clouding your opinions here.  Maybe you did have a good experience in [[public school]] at some time in the past, but without more information it is impossible to assess that.  No one is claiming that every student is ruined by public school, but public school does deprive its students of classroom prayer.  As a teacher, I can assure you that such deprivation does have an adverse effect.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:06, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Considering that one of this site's very strong focal points is trying to influence homeschooling, I would say that my &amp;quot;accusations&amp;quot; (though I would describe them as observations) of some people having an elitist view are not absurd at all. For example, the entire list of [[professor values]] demonstrates the elitist view, as its sole purpose is propaganda against teachers. Do not be so quick to apply a label to everyone that falls into a classification. I think they have a word for that... what is it? Oh yes, stereotyping. To address the depravity of prayer, I disagree passionately with you. Every year in school, we as students were offered a &amp;quot;moment of silence&amp;quot; following the pledge of allegiance (which did not ignore &amp;quot;Under [[God]]&amp;quot;) for prayer, among other things. I feel that you have a very closed-minded view of things, and coming from a SysOp from a site that works so fervently against the media, I feel you use media coverage of incidences in public schools as a crutch, and choose not to look at things on a case by case basis because it could possibly hurt your arguments. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 23:06, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh, and as far as a direct example of elitism on this site: The caption under the photo about the fight that went up on YouTube reads, &amp;quot;A fight typical of [[public school]] students.&amp;quot; I wish I knew you, Ashclafay, so I could ask you to look me in the eye and say that isn't an elitist statement. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 15:26, 19 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Capolavoro046, I'll look you in the eye and ask you to be concise.  I didn't read all your comments above.  Surely you can make your point well in a few short sentences.  Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:07, 20 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::You know, having an outspoken proponent of homeschooling such as yourself respond to a reasoned objection with &amp;quot;Too long; didn't read.&amp;quot; would not exactly fill me with confidence about you teaching my hypothetical children. --[[User:Gulik|Gulik]] 17:42, 23 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I've been accused of wordiness many times; but I can also be concise. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 19:53, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: My addition is what happens when the parents are not effective teachers? I have no problem with homeschooling, and believe that both homeschooling and public school have their advantages and disadvantages, but I do believe that while teachers at public school are forced to be held to a standard (not that they always meet it, and not always are the standards enforced, but generally) whereas homeschooling is not always as effective as this article would have you believe. Looking at the pros and cons of every issue is a good thing, and maybe some credibility would be gained by this article by adding some of the potential disadvantages. -- [[User:Aaronp|Aaronp]] 23:19, 29 May 2008 PST&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jordin Sparks ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Jordin Sparks won the American Idol contest one year, which is good and fun for her.  I wish her the best.  But does that media award place her as a &amp;quot;prominent American&amp;quot; in the league of the others on the list?  I don't think so, and think she should remain a footnote on the music issue and not in the main list.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:07, 20 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I added her because we have so few examples of homeschoolers born in the late 20th century, and thus homeschooled during the modern homeschooling movement.  Such people are likely to be less prominent, simply because they are younger.  I have some thoughts on how to manage this, but I must do our schooling here at home before spending time editing this morning.  {{unsigned|Hsmom}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:: If there is a goal of having homeschoolers born in the late 20th century, then the math prodigies would be better picks.  But I don't see what is so special about the late 20th century.  Homeschooling now is not that different from 100 years ago.  Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:27, 23 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==This has been removed==&lt;br /&gt;
Completely =)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Diet==&lt;br /&gt;
Parents whose children attend public schools can't constantly monitor what is served at the schools. Diet is worse in public schools because the &amp;quot;junk&amp;quot; is readily available and rather inexpensive too.&lt;br /&gt;
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A trial experiment is in order. Stock a homeschooler's fridge with a variety of &amp;quot;health&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;junk&amp;quot; foods and leave them to their studying/eating. I think you can view one example... 5 cans of w*****d c***m disappear within a week.&lt;br /&gt;
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Also, &amp;quot;appears&amp;quot; isn't fact. +_+ &amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;always tired&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; [[User:Kektklik|Kektk]] 16:18, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You make good points.  But whatever the reason, the difference is not likely to change.  And parents don't usually put greasy french fries in the fridge.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:44, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: What is preventing the parents from sending the child to school with a healthy lunch instead? The related question is are cuts to school lunch programs having a negative impact on the options for the school for providing healthy food (fast food style is less expensive than getting good produce). Ketchup is not a vegetable. --[[User:Rutm|Rutm]] 20:25, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know if this is a difference between Australia and America or between now and when I went to school, but when I was in primary school (years 0 to 6), the school didn't serve ''any'' food, and we either brought our own or (rarely in my case) bought it from the milk bar over the road.  Admittedly there was a canteen in high school (years 7 to 12), but again, I rarely used it, instead bringing my lunch from home.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can quite accept that the diet of homeschoolers is better than in government schools (although it should have a reference), but how much of this is because the homeschooling parent can &amp;quot;constantly monitor&amp;quot; what their children eat, and how much is because the homeschooling parent cares more than some (not all) parents of government school students, which is likely a factor in why they are homeschooling in the first place?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:05, 31 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Homeschooling. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just out of curiosity, why are so many people listed as being homeschooled, when the explanation then goes on to say that they joined school at age 10 or 9 or whatever. Surely that's just a mix of both, and so a little irrelevant?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I don't think where one learns to read, write and do arithmetic is &amp;quot;a little irrelevant.&amp;quot;  Ask the millions of illiterate people, or the people who help them, if their lack of learning is &amp;quot;irrelevant&amp;quot;.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:14, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Ahh but reading, writing, and arithmetic are just tools. They do not form any abstract thought. So, these peope listed who learned the basics at home before attending institutionalized education systems, if you think they are so wonderful, you can't cite their very limited homeschooling as the reason.[[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 19:03, 2 September 2008 (EDT) (this was deleted before... please don't delete it again, it doesn't read like my usual fiery stuff, lol...)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: I don't agree with your downplaying the significance of reading, writing and arithmetic.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:42, 2 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with Aschlafly. Reading, writing and arithmetic are the backbone of an education. I look forward to homeschooling my own children one day, at least until their teenage years, so I can teach them one other important thing missing in government run schools - values. [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 19:52, 2 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Nowhere did I downplay the signifigance of the &amp;quot;three R's.&amp;quot; The point I was making, is that they form the foundation for advanced knowledge, but do not in and of themselves create the values that some people are attributing to homeschooling. They are neutral things, and have nothing to do with anything liberal or conservative. Mr. Schlafly's point was that these children who went to institutionalized school systems after 9 or 10 still learned their basics at home, and that somehow was responsible for their prominence. But I beg to differ. What you've learned by 9 or 10 years old, I don't feel is the deciding factor. I have no issue with Mr. Schlafly defending homeschooling. He's chosen it as his cause, and whether I personally agree or not the fact remains that at least he is motivated by the desire to educate children. We ca debate his methods all day and night but the decision to brighten a child's mind, in itself is never a bad decision at all. But I digress... I just wanted to show that he may not have chosen the best battleground for defending homeschooling with THIS PARTICULAR facet of homeschooling (go back up to the start of this specific topic in case my ramblings have made you forget, lol...).[[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 08:03, 3 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other Factors Contributing to Homeschool Success ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Without disputing the achievements of homeschooled students, I would like to see a more detailed examination of related factors which likely contribute to this achievement.  For instance: homeschooled students are almost certainly going to benefit from having a full-time, stay-at-home parent, as this is essentially a prerequisite to proper homeschooling.  Surely full-time parenting carries substantial benefits in and of itself; it has been my experience that students who come from a home environment with a stay-at-home parent tend to be more disciplined, more courteous, and typically more academically advanced than those who do not.  Additionally, by the same logic, homeschooled students are quite likely to come from a stable two-parent household; it seems very unlikely that a single parent would be able to both make ends meet and properly homeschool.  The benefits of a two-parent household are, if anything, more pronounced than the benefits of full-time parenting; of the students who have failed my class in the past several years, better than half came from single parent homes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would this article be an appropriate place for such an examination, or should it be placed in a related article?  --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 12:14, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You make good [[conservative]] points, but they are more appropriate for a different entry.  [[Homeschooling]] produces achievement and behavior that cannot be found among [[public school]] kids from wealthy, two-parent homes.  Many of the [[teen mass murderers]] were [[public school]] kids from &amp;quot;ideal&amp;quot;, privileged families, for example.  Virtually all the extraordinary geniuses and super-achievers were [[homeschooled]], but not all were from &amp;quot;ideal&amp;quot; families.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:18, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks for the response.  I'll work on a new article to cover the issue.  --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 20:28, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tutors ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the content on this subject seems to be from the viewpoint of the pupil or parent. Have you any advice for potential tutors? -[[User:CraigW|CraigW]] 09:22, 28 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Atheist Homeschooler. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi. I am a Homeschooler.  Been one since second grade.  &lt;br /&gt;
Starting college next year. I'm also an atheist.  &lt;br /&gt;
I just wanted to let you guys know that not all atheists like the public schools.  &lt;br /&gt;
They teach all about Kwanzaa and Hanukkah, but we never learned what Christmas was about.  (Incidentally, we also never learned that there are lots of people out there who don't believe in a god at all.)  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I can see why many Christians get mad at the PS system.  &lt;br /&gt;
I read the story about the kid who got an &amp;quot;F&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
in art for writing a bible verse on his drawing.  That is unfair.  &lt;br /&gt;
But most atheists I know aren't like that.  &lt;br /&gt;
In fact, my whole Home school group in Lynchburg is made up of atheists or agnostics. &lt;br /&gt;
Most of us don't see anything wrong with classroom prayer, either.  &lt;br /&gt;
As long as the child who's praying makes up his own mind to pray &lt;br /&gt;
(without being forced to by a teacher), and it doesn't disturb the rest of the class, &lt;br /&gt;
who cares if they pray?  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So please, don't think that all atheists are evil, &lt;br /&gt;
oppressive overlords of education.  &lt;br /&gt;
It's just a handful of Liberals in charge of the school board &lt;br /&gt;
who are way too worried that some minority is going to get &lt;br /&gt;
their feelings hurt, and not worried enough about educating young Americans. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:PatV|PatV]] 10:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tim Tebow ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure if he's as notable as the one's listed, but Tim Tebow&amp;amp;mdash;as I learned last night during the BCS Championship&amp;amp;mdash;was homeschooled but allowed to play football for a public school due to Florida law.  [[User:JLauttamus|Jeffrey W. Lauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;Discussion&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;]] 14:46, 9 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==United Nations  Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC)==&lt;br /&gt;
I added, in part, &amp;quot;An example of such possible restriction is seen in the United States, in which a New Hampshire Court ordered a thriving 10 year old Christian homeschooled girl to attend public school, solely in order to expose her to &amp;quot;different points of view at a time in her life when she must begin to critically evaluate multiple systems of belief and behavior.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;ttp://onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=659638&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The [[Fairness doctrine]] as it is designed to work. The girl offended the counselor by witnessing to him/her, and was disturbed by his refusal. If she expressed a different liberal &amp;quot;ideologies&amp;quot; and found resistance, i think it would be the counselor would undergo &amp;quot;sensitivity training.   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consistent with the courts reasoning, all children who are raised in secular environments (and are basically protected from Christian practices such as prayer and Bible reading in school under State-sponsored secularism), should be compelled to go to a Christian school to be exposed to that &amp;quot;POV&amp;quot;. [[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 17:09, 30 August 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Excellent point.  Very well put!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:31, 30 August 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== There is a serious issue here that Conservapedia is failing to acknowledge ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my personal geographic location, the vast majority of homeschoolers are educated by the [[public school]] system, either through a website known as Florida Virtual School, which is operated by the state government under the [[Florida Department of Education]], or through a program known as &amp;quot;homebound&amp;quot; where the local school district sends a tuitor to the homeschooled students' homes and use the same liberal textbooks used in public school facilities. There are homeschooled students that are ''not'' associated with the public school system as well, but changing the setting to students' homes opposed to &amp;quot;brick and mortar institutions&amp;quot; does not combat atheist and liberal indoctrination in itself. I would note this on the article myself, but I figured it would be best to bring it to the talk page first to discuss. Also note that I personally have nothing against homeschooling, but it's simply not a &amp;quot;cure all.&amp;quot; [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 16:34, 20 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You're absolutely right, and please feel free to make appropriate edits to this (or any other) entry.  That said, this is another example of how the exceptions do not prove the rule.  The correlation is still very high being homeschooling and open-mindedness or [[faith]], even with the problem you describe.  Students are better off in a virtual school than a bricks-and-mortar school, and most homeschooled students nationwide reject the virtual school curricula anyway.  So it's a bit like saying that not all non-smokers are healthy.  True, but the non-smokers are better off than the smokers, on average.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:22, 20 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::Absolutely; I never intended to be any kind of an &amp;quot;exception to any rule,&amp;quot; but rather to point out a very important point. In my opinion, liberal bias is a terrible problem in all settings, not just [[public schools]], [[private schools]], or [[homeschooling]]. [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 16:26, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Irrelevant information ==&lt;br /&gt;
There's a couple of bits of information which seem totally irrelevant:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- The most successful mathematician in contests in history, Reid Barton, was homeschooled.[2]'' - One example out of a bunch of mathematicians isn't really evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- The top college football player and the first to win the Heisman Trophy as a sophomore, Tim Tebow, was homeschooled until college.[3]'' - Doesn't have anything to do with homeschooling since the football skills he learned weren't learned by being homeschooled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- A Wimbledon tennis star, Melanie Oudin, chose homeschooling beginning in 7th grade:'' - Also doesn't have anything to do with homeschool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm all for homeschooling, I was homeschooled myself, and several of my friends were, but this still seems irrelavent to the concept of homeschooling, and it shouldn't be included in the first paragraph of the text. Maybe later, as examples of people who were homeschooled but not like it's used right now, like a reason be homeschooled.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Homeschooling&amp;diff=762723</id>
		<title>Talk:Homeschooling</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Homeschooling&amp;diff=762723"/>
		<updated>2010-03-17T12:17:21Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[/archive 1|Archive 1]] (20th March 2008)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Snipping George Bernard Shaw and Mark Twain==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm removing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[George Bernard Shaw]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Mark Twain]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both men had complex opinions that varied during the course of their lives, but calling them &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot; is a stretch. My reasons for excluding Shaw are given above. As for Mark Twain, he did write a sympathetic book about Joan of Arc. However, his writings are replete with sarcastic and dismissive remarks about organized religion. He refused to let &amp;quot;Letters from the Earth&amp;quot; be published until after his death. In Mark Twain's Letters, we read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:From a gentleman in Buffalo Clemens one day received a letter inclosing an incompleted list of the world's &amp;quot;One Hundred Greatest Men,&amp;quot; men who had exerted &amp;quot;the largest visible influence on the life and activities of the race.&amp;quot;  The writer asked that Mark Twain examine the list and suggest names, adding &amp;quot;would you include Jesus, as the founder of Christianity, in the list?&amp;quot; To the list of statesmen Clemens added the name of Thomas Paine; to the list of inventors, Edison and Alexander Graham Bell.  The question he answered in detail.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Twain's answer was that if the compiler of the list added Jesus, he should also add Satan: &amp;quot;From A.D. 350 to A.D. 1850 these gentlemen exercised a vaster influence over a fifth part of the human race than was exercised over that fraction of the race by all other influences combined.  Ninety-nine hundredths of this influence proceeded from Satan, the remaining fraction of it from Jesus.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Twain has been labelled &amp;quot;deist,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;agnostic,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;atheist.&amp;quot; Gary Sloan suggests ([http://www.writerscramp.ca/archives/mark_twain.htm Mark Twain's Covert War with his Maker]) that he believed in a ''malignant'' God, and says &amp;quot;Viewing Satan as a heroic rebel against the real Archfiend, Twain came to identify with the fallen cherub and often used him as a mouthpiece.&amp;quot; Perhaps his views were so complex that he was all of these things and a Christian at the same time, but he was certainly not a Christian as the term is ordinarily meant. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 20:03, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:But if they were homeschooled, shouldn't they be in the &amp;quot;other&amp;quot; section of the list? [[User:Human|Human]] 18:21, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Sure. That section didn't exist when I removed them; it was a single list of Christians. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 20:32, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Doing. [[User:Human|Human]] 21:25, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The part on Mark Twain doesn't even discuss him being homeschooled, only him completing five grades of school. Also the majority of the people on the list were born before state sponsored public schooling. [[User:Rellik|Rellik]] 22:56, 18 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You're in the wrong place if you want to censor information from the page.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:09, 18 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Marx, Himmler, Oscar Wilde... ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I would love to see a good, non-ideological reason as to why these names were eliminated from the list. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:08, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Why is a non-ideological reason necessary? [[User:DanH|DanH]] 20:10, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
: Because if they were only deleted for ideological reasons that is an admission that the article is intentionally misleading.  --[[User:Merriweather|Merriweather]] 20:13, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, this is an encyclopedia article about homeschooling, right? And a section of that article is dedicated to listing prominent persons who were homeschooled in one way or another, right? And a noted political/economic theorist, an important figure in the Nazi regime, and a great Irish writer all fit both parts of the prominent/homeschooled criteria for that list, so there is no reason to take them off the list...unless including them on the list somehow makes homeschooling look bad; in that case the removal is strictly ideological....which brings into question the intellectual honesty and integrity of the article, and thus the project writ large. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:16, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I undid the ideological deletion as it runs counter to Conservapedia's ethos of censorship of facts see [[Conservapedia:How_Conservapedia_Differs_from_Wikipedia]], Item 9 - &amp;quot;Wikipedia editors who are far more liberal than the American public frequently censor factual information. Conservapedia does not censor any facts that comport with the basic rules.&amp;quot; [[User:Brixham|Brixham]] 14:44, 14 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::DanH, so if you won't provide a non-ideological reason can you tell me why you blatantly go against the Conservapedia differences with Wikipedia? I always thought you seemed a reasonable guy.  [[User:Brixham|Brixham]] 15:19, 14 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The removal was no less ideological than the inclusion of the names. I mean, Himmler? [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:24, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Touché :) [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:28, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If they are to be put in, I would at the very least ask for a citation. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:26, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Where are the citations that [[Karl Marx]] was homeschooled?  I'll look further for them, but haven't found any yet.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:56, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Problems with this page ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think there are some major problems with this article; not in terms of the content being wildly inaccurate but rather being rather narrow in its focus. If you look at the opening line, it defines homeschool as &amp;quot;a movement consisting of 1-2 million students in the United States&amp;quot;. That's problematic because for a start, because homeschooling is not a &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; (at best, it's a subsection of the conservative movement) and it's definitely not isolated to the United States.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Furthermore, I think you're striving a little too hard to give homeschooling as much credit as possible. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against homeschooling. But at no stage in the article have you clearly and accurately defined what homeschooling is, because as I noted, the opening definition is extremely flawed. Consequently, when you get to someone like Charles Dickens, I reckon you're drawing a bit of a long bow. To take the Dickens example: as a history teacher, I feel that we should be quite clear that Charles Dickens was never formally homeschooled in the manner that the article implies and the fact that he didn't receive an education for much of his childhood had nothing to do with such things as &amp;quot;a different, often better, education environment with different, often better, opportunities&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;freedom from liberal and/or atheistic bias and culture in schools&amp;quot;. To simplify things as much as possible, he ceased to have a formal education because his father was imprisoned for financial reasons. And I can tell you that his mother was no great believer in Dickens getting an education: she was the one that forced Dickens to work in a factory. In short, there is no evidence whatsoever that Dickens received any active home education. Dickens is just one example of the wider problem with the entire article, in that you suffer from a poor definition which consequently makes many of the names that you list as &amp;quot;arguably homeschooled&amp;quot; look silly. Even under a solid definition of homeschooling, I don't think people such as Dickens qualify. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 05:36, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: PeterS, you may be an expert in history, but your logic does not follow.  The entry does not care ''why'' someone was homeschooled in listing who was homeschooled.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:55, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think PeterS has a valid point, at least in his first line.  As he points out, the article describes homeschooling as &amp;quot;a movement consisting of 1-2 million students in the United States&amp;quot;.  So for starters, how many on the list were homeschooled ''in the United States''?  Clearly, however, homeschooling is not confined to the U.S., so it's the definition rather than the list that should be changed (as far as my argument goes so far).&lt;br /&gt;
:: I don't agree with him that it's not a movement; I think that's probably an apt term.  But that raises the next problem with the list.  Homeschooling ''as a movement'' is a relatively recent phenomenon, over the last forty years, I would guess.  So anybody on that list who was educated at home more than around forty years ago does not fit the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
:: There's more that I could say, along the lines of PeterS' second paragraph, but perhaps I'll leave it there for the moment.&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:14, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Similar to my comment below, this criticism is overly literal.  But to play that game, &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is the movement, while those who were &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; is a broader category that can go beyond the movement.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:17, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: My immediate response to that, without thinking through it, is that that might make sense, but if it does, at the very least that distinction should be made clear in the article.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:19, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Perhaps the opening part of the article could refer to a general, specific definition of homeschooling. That would clear up some of the conceptual difficulties that become more evident later in the article. '''Then''' you could branch out after that and comment on the &amp;quot;homeschooling movement&amp;quot; in the United States. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:46, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: An addendum to my previous post: I still think my dispute with the Dickens example stands. Just because someone does not receive a formal education at a school, it does not mean they were homeschooled. The facts are these: Dickens was educated as long as was financially possible. When his father was jailed, he was sent to work in a factory, like many financially disadvantaged young people at the time. To my knowledge (and the minutiae of the personal histories of English authors are not my strongest point), there is no evidence that his mother actively homeschooled him. Indeed, all the evidence points to his mother being firmly in favour of him working at a boot-blacking factory ''instead of'' getting an education. If you have evidential proof that this was not the case, feel free to cite it. Once again, if you think my argumentation over this is not valid, then you've got to sort out the definitional problem ASAP. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've reworded the introduction to:&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove the United States as part of the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
* To define homeschooling as being educated &amp;quot;primarily at home&amp;quot;, rather than &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot;, as the latter could include non-traditional schools.  The existing text later in the article expands on &amp;quot;primarily at home&amp;quot;, to explain the parts that are not at home.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 06:54, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've also changed references to homeschooling in the prominent people list to &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;taught at home&amp;quot; (as some entries already were) for all persons whose education preceded the formation of the homeschooling movement.  By the way, the entry for Leonardo doesn't actually say that he was taught at home.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 07:09, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Nobody uses the phrase &amp;quot;educated at home,&amp;quot; Philip.  Have you ever heard anyone use it?  An encyclopedia should use common and easily understood terminology, first and foremost.  &amp;quot;Homeschooled&amp;quot; is the term that is used.  Also, I'm not aware of a category that is &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot; but not homeschooled.  Homeschooling is not dependent on the ''physical location'', but on the approach.  Again, I object to the overly literal and [[materialistic]] approach.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:50, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Regarding &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot;...&lt;br /&gt;
::* I'm not in the habit of noting down every phrase I hear, so in one sense I couldn't say whether I've ever heard it, but I would think that I ''have'' heard it.&lt;br /&gt;
::* That's apart from this article, which as I said, already used it, the phrase having been included by Dpbsmith ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=16849]), Hsmom ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=151194], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=151212], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=155576], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=165607],[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=167430]), and NonXtianConservative ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=219041]).&lt;br /&gt;
::* Google returns 106,000 hits for &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot;, so it's fairly common.&lt;br /&gt;
::* And even if none of that was the case, isn't Conservapedia proud of inventing [[Conservapedia terms|new terms]]?&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;Homeschooled&amp;quot; is one of a number of terms that are used.  Another is &amp;quot;taught at home&amp;quot;, which was used by none other than one Aschlafly ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=218738])!  I've used both those terms to avoid too much repetition.&lt;br /&gt;
:: And of course there is the ''reason'' I made those changes, that if homeschooling is defined (correctly, I believe) to be a movement that started in the 1960s, then anybody educated/taught/tutored at home prior to then cannot be said to be &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  That's not to say that their situation is necessarily quite different, but it does mean that the term itself should not be used of them.&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot; depends on what is meant by &amp;quot;traditional&amp;quot;.  It could mean schools that allow the students to decide what they learn, for example, or other schools that take a non-traditional approach in any number of ways.  It could include parent-controlled Christian schools, as ''traditionally'' schools have been controlled by governments or religious denominations.  Yes, those examples are all schools, but they're not necessarily ''traditional'' schools.&lt;br /&gt;
:: If &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is not dependent (to a fair extent) on the physical location, then why is it called &amp;quot;''home''schooling&amp;quot;?  And if it's dependent on the approach, why is it not defined in terms of the approach?  In any case, the previous definition was based on physical location, that being &amp;quot;outside ... schools&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:: How is my definition &amp;quot;overly literal&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
:: And how is is &amp;quot;materialistic&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 09:53, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Philip, you say that &amp;quot;Google returns 106,000 hits for 'educated at home,' so it's fairly common.&amp;quot;  But that is only about 5% of the frequency of use of &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;, which generates nearly 2 million hits on Google.  So &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;fairly common&amp;quot; relative to its counterpart.  It is also meaningless to define ''where'' someone is taught rather than focusing on the approach.&lt;br /&gt;
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::: It is overly literal and materialistic to define homeschooling in terms of the physical location (e.g., at home) rather than the approach (e.g., parental control).  Shall we next define [[Christian]]s based on where they pray?  Of course not.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:28, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Googling &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; without the quotes I get 1.6 million hits (which includes variations such as ''homeschooling'' and ''homeschool'').  Googling &amp;quot;homeschooled ''with'' the quotes, I get 1.49 million hits.  So the percentage is actually about 7.  But I wasn't trying to claim that it's the most common use of the term.  I was pointing out that your claim that &amp;quot;Nobody uses the phrase&amp;quot; is incorrect.  If 7% is &amp;quot;nobody&amp;quot;, then I guess nobody gets homeschooled, as the figure there is &amp;quot;only&amp;quot; 2%.  But clearly 2% still amounts to a large figure, and 7% is also quite sufficient to say that the term is commonly used, even if &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; is considerably more common.&lt;br /&gt;
:::: As I said, the previous definition focused on &amp;quot;where&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the physical location&amp;quot;, except for it being a positive &amp;quot;at home&amp;quot; it was a negative &amp;quot;not at school&amp;quot;.  So my change did not change that the definition was location-based.  However, the new definition that you've now provided is a good one, and I'm reasonably happy with that (it could be tweaked a bit.  For example, it links to the American definition of 'public school' rather than the broader 'school').&lt;br /&gt;
:::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 20:06, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::Some thoughts - I use the term &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; quite frequently, as it can include quite a number of educational approaches, only some of which I'd call &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.  In some states in the USA, various terms have very specific meaning.  As an example, in Pennsylvania, students can be &amp;quot;privately tutored&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;receiving homebound instruction&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;enrolled in a cyber-charter school&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;enrolled in a home education program&amp;quot;.  All four of these kinds of students are educated at home - that is, they get much of their education in their own home.  Some folks call all four kinds &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  However, in two of these cases the students are public school students (educated at taxpayer expense, with school-provided curriculum).   Many people would not consider this &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;, at least in the traditional sense, especially as the parents have little say in the curriculum content, which has to meet state standards.  Students can be &amp;quot;privately tutored&amp;quot; by their parent or a hired tutor - for various reasons, some would consider only the former to be &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.   &amp;quot;Home education programs&amp;quot; create a broad umbrella which can encompas a variety of approaches.  For example, home educated students can enroll in homeschool co-ops - essentially &amp;quot;schools for homeschoolers&amp;quot;, and may actually do little if any of their learning in their own home.  In some other states, no one is, legally speaking, homeschooling - they are all enrolled in private schools, some of which are so small as to have only students from a single family.  With the rise of publicly-run and publicly-funded internet-based schools, people are being more careful about how they use the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.  We do not want the general public to assume that anyone who is homeschooling is doing so at significant taxpayer expense, as that could result in an unacceptable level of government oversight and control, so we must be careful with our terminology.  It's tricky stuff.  &lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]], I think that the list of arguably homeschooled people stretches the definition of homeschooling beyond my recognition (as a homeschooling mom).  [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] makes a good case that Dickens was not homeschooled (lack of education does not IMHO equal homeschooling, as discussed previously with George Washington Carver).  I also think Joan of Arc was not homeschooled - her mother taught her prayers and household skills, as most mothers have taught their daughters for centuries, but there is no evidence she gave any academic instruction.  But [[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]], it's your sandbox, so your say goes. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 20:56, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Read an interesting article ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I generally don't follow &amp;quot;homeschooling politics&amp;quot; but I recently read an interesting article. Apparently CA has recently placed a de facto ban on homeschooling. Does that sound like something appropriate for this article? (It would be nice to have something not in list form.) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 16:20, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The government of California has said they will not enforce it, but to have it on the books begs a time when the government may not be as friendly and could decide to crack down.  They didn't allow homeschooling per se, but did it's equivalent by saying a special license was necessary to teach.  Since homeschoolers score higher on standardized tests than their public school counterparts, it is especially troubling to see efforts made to curtail it. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:59, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks for the info, Learn Together! I didn't read it from a primary source, I read it from someone who regurgitated it for me. They said that that they would require extensive training/licencing to be a homeschool teacher, which would essentially kill the movement. The article I read didn't say that CA wasn't going to enforce the ruling (because that would make for a significantly less interesting article for a libertarian newsletter!) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 21:35, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can I object to the statement that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled? It is patently ridiculous, even to a supporter of homeschooling. Here's just a few of the many famous mathematicians from the last few centuries who were not homeschooled: Isaac Newton, Leonhard Euler, George Polya, Carl Friedrich Gauss, John Venn, several of the Bernoulli family, Pierre de Fermat and Johannes Kepler. Off the top of my head, August Möbius was homeschooled only to the age of 13, and some mathematicians were born into European aristocracy who would never even think of allowing their children to be taught in a normal education system, which at the time would have been grossly inferior. Less hyperbole, please! [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 21:00, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Fine, let's look at your examples, several of whom would not be described as &amp;quot;great mathematicians&amp;quot;; others in your list who were [[homeschooled]]; and still more who were schooled but achieved despite it.  Spell out the schooling of each of your examples and you'll find that nearly all of them fall in one of the categories I just identified, and hence my reversion.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:54, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: That last category (&amp;quot;were schooled but achieved despite it&amp;quot;) is of people who were ''not'' homeschooled.  Correct?  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:04, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Well, yes, you are literally correct, but figuratively that category reinforces the thesis.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:13, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: How does &amp;quot;people who were educated in a regular shool and did well&amp;quot; (to rephrase it) support the thesis? (The phrase &amp;quot;despite it&amp;quot; presumes what the thesis is trying to demonstrate, so is a circular argument.) [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:19, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Right, so let's have a look at the first criterion. In other words, &amp;quot;several of whom would not be described as great mathematicians&amp;quot;. Actually, I don't think that's my job. I think if you want to make a statement claiming that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled, you need to prove it. '''You''' need to identify exactly who you would classify as a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; and name them all: or have you already done that? What are your criteria for great mathematicians? Then '''you''' need to identify what percentage of those were homeschooled. '''Then''' you can assert that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled. Now: &amp;quot;others in your list who were homeschooled&amp;quot;. Again, it's a meaningless statement because you have never defined exactly what constitutes a homeschooled person - how many years they need to have been homeschooled - and when people have asked on this talk page, you haven't answered. Next: &amp;quot;still more who were schooled but achieved despite it&amp;quot;. Hmmm... so you're making the assumption that because they were high achievers but attended school, they must have achieved '''despite''' their education? And you're using that justify the contention that homeschooling is better than a regular education? Which means that those who achieved highly did so despite their education? Which means that homeschooling is better than a regular education? Where does the circular nature of that argument end? Can I reiterate: I think that homeschooling is great if people are prepared to do it, and I think that you personally have done a lot of good things in terms of homeschooling. But I don't think it helps our conservative cause if we make silly hyperbolic statements all over the place in a futile gesture to stick it up to the liberals/atheists. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:35, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: PeterS, our list of homeschoolers includes many of the greatest mathematicians.  Please read it.  Your list does not disprove the statement that  nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled.  I invited you to spell out the schooling of those in your list (as I have done for those homeschooled), but so far you've declined to do so.  So your objection does not persuade.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Andrew, I have read the list. But &amp;quot;many of the greatest mathematicians&amp;quot; is a different statement from &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Many&amp;quot; is completely different from &amp;quot;nearly every&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Many&amp;quot; is fairly uncontroversial, because it doesn't directly imply proportionality - it could mean a majority, or it could mean a sizeable minority, or it could mean some arbitrary proportion that you specify. &amp;quot;Nearly every&amp;quot; implies a sizeable majority, probably somewhere in the region of 90-95% - I'm being arbitrary here, but &amp;quot;nearly every&amp;quot; would, in the English language, be somewhere close to 100%. Now, until you can tell us what a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; is, and list all those that you classify as great mathematicians, you cannot say that almost 100% of great mathematicians were homeschooled. If a student came to me with an essay saying something like &amp;quot;nearly every person killed in the Reign of Terror was an aristocrat&amp;quot;, I would underline the statement, ask in the page margin for a citation of the number of people killed in the Terror, ask for a citation of the number of aristocrats killed in the Terror, and ask them to justify why that may have been the case (based on a historical interpretation). Your statement does not match any of these rather non-exhaustive criteria, and it'd be interesting if you could address this. On to the second part of your question: citations for my names. It should not be my job to find citations to help to prove or disprove your unproven statement. And I ask that before you try to pick apart my examples and set arbitrary criteria, you address what I've just said in this paragraph and my previous statements. But I'll do this anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Isaac Newton''' - accounts vary, but all acknowledge that he received a formal education in at least one school. According to this source, [http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/rhatch/pages/01-Courses/current-courses/08sr-newton.htm], he was educated at King's School, Grantham. According to this source, [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Newton.html] he was educated at Free Grammar School, Grantham. Despite the inconsistency in the name, we can conclude that whichever school(s) he attended, he did attend school for most of his childhood. This source [http://www.skyscript.co.uk/newton.html] tells us that while he spent years out of school, he was not homeschooled during that time: indeed, it was felt that &amp;quot;he did not need an education&amp;quot;. Without even requiring criteria, I think we can conclude that the development of Calculus is enough to make him a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot;, not to mention these things called the laws of motion...&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Leonhard Euler''' - this source [http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Leonhard%20Euler] tells us that he went to a low quality school, but the fact stands: he attended school during that time, even if he self-taught and received tutoring at the same time. But even if you choose to disagree with my contention, it doesn't change my objections, noted in all my above comments. Anyway, Euler = great mathematician, no contest, even without criteria.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''George Pólya''' - [http://www.sci.uidaho.edu/polya/biography.htm] says it all. Again, criteria are a problem, because you have never specified any, but Pólya is one of the world's foremost modern contributors to mathematical logic and combinatorics through elements such as the Pólya enumeration theorem and his four principles of mathematical proofs/problem solving.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Carl Friedrich Gauss''' - this source [http://www.mathsong.com/cfgauss/Dunnington/1927/] tells us that he was educated from the age of seven. Case closed. That page also details his mathematical achievements very well in areas such as number theory in particular.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''John Venn''' - [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Venn.html]: went straight through Cholmley's and Islington. End of story. As for being a great mathematician... ever used a Venn diagram?&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Bernoulli family''' - it is much more difficult to find evidence for the Bernoulli family - it is a pattern that people would either be taught at home or sent to a local school before moving onto more prestigious pursuits in secondary school or university. Obviously it's difficult to be consistent in researching across a cross-generational family. I'll gladly ignore this one.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Pierre de Fermat''' - he self-taught mathematics [http://www.surveyor.in-berlin.de/himmel/Bios/Fermat-e.htm], but that came once he had already studied jurisprudence at university and become a councillor. This source [http://www.qerhs.k12.nf.ca/projects/physics/fermat.html] tells us that he did indeed receive a primary and secondary education. This source confirms that he was probably schooled at a Franciscan monastery [http://www.qerhs.k12.nf.ca/projects/physics/fermat.html]. And he was great; no matter what criteria you set.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Johannes Kepler''' - this source [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Kepler.html] tells us that although he helped in his grandfather's inn, he attended a local school and then a seminary. Kepler did of course achieve extraordinary things in astronomy, physics and mathematics including things such as positing the Kepler conjecture (which will probably become a theorem).&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{unsigned|PeterS}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:: OK, your list of great mathematicians who were not homeschooled is dwindling fast.  Working backwards, Kepler evidently was educated while helped at his relative's inn, and he isn't considered a great mathematician anyway.  Fermat was self-taught in mathematics.  The Bernouilli family almost certainly handed down their expertise through homeschooling, and you've conceded dropping them.  Venn was not a great mathematician.  &lt;br /&gt;
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:: We're left with only four:  Newton, Euler, Polya, and Gauss.  I'll check them out now.  It may be that a few of them were not homeschooled, which is why the claim is not that every great mathematician was homeschooled, but that nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled.  But I'm curious to investigate the education of these four.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:47, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Newton apparently did not attend school until age 10, making him another homeschooler.  [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Newton.html] --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:51, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The fact that Newton did not attend school until the age of 10 does not make him a homeschooler.  Indeed the source you cited says nothing about what his education was before Free Grammar School, if he had one.  A homeschooling education seems unlikely, as the source says that Newton's grandfather, whom he was living with, practically ignored Newton, and that Newton hated his mother and step-father.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 23:16, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Andrew Schlafly, you claim to be an expert in everything yet you are totally incapable of answering a simple request of another person is only trying to improve your encyclopaedia. I have spent several screenfuls of this discussion page trying to ask you two '''very simple questions''', which shouldn't be too difficult whether the answerer is homeschooled or not. (1) '''What is your definition of a great mathematician?''' and (2) '''What exactly constitutes homeschooling?''' Your page does neither. Under your (highly elusive) criteria, spending a couple of years at home while of primary school age is sufficient to qualify as homeschooling. Under your criteria, receiving private tutoring while simultaneously attending school daily is sufficient to qualify as homeschooling. Under your criteria, a mathematician is great only if you say so, because under your criteria, Johannes Kepler and John Venn cease to become a great mathematician. Schlafly, this encyclopaedia will only live up to its name - Conservapedia - when it becomes an accurate reflection of a conservative viewpoint. At the moment, its Schlaflipedia: if you don't want to answer a reasonable question, you block your ears. That's also why you lock Conservapedia from editing when there aren't sysops around to jump on people who are trying to improve articles. You are driving away conservatives who want to make a difference but can't because Sleep-ly (grab a German dictionary if you don't get the pun) doesn't want his personal authority challenged. I am a conservative on every issue - foreign policy, economic policy, social policy et al - but that won't keep me at Conservapedia. You are harming the good work of real conservatives who deal in facts and proofs. I should note that I don't expect this comment to be here tomorrow; I expect that it will  be &amp;quot;archived&amp;quot; in the rubbish bin, along with my user account. &amp;quot;Godspeed&amp;quot; to anyone who ever tries to object to Schlafly's perverse logic and warped ideas. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 05:41, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: PeterS, your comments are becoming increasingly long-winded, incoherent and insulting.  Get to the point succinctly and politely, and I'll respond to you.  Otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time.  By the way, I don't have a definition for &amp;quot;great mathematician,&amp;quot; nor is one necessary for such a term.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:24, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Then you've just conceded his point.  If you don't define what constitutes a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; then you can not define the set of &amp;quot;great mathematicians&amp;quot; therefore you can not legitimately claim that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled&amp;quot; be cause it is completely unquantifiable.  Like-wise, you refuse to define what constitutes &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  For you, it appears to mean anyone who ever learned anything outside of a traditional public school system education from K-12 and college... but this ignores the fact that such traditional structure has not been commonplace since the dawn of history.  Many of the examples you give are from several hundred years ago when this structure was not in plaace in the manner it is to day, yet you conflate any kind of home learning in that time period with homescholling as it is today... the two are not necessarily equivalent.  You want them to be, in order to push your ideology.  Also, discounting any example given as either &amp;quot;not a great mathematician&amp;quot; or labelling them &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; because they have some minor period of time that they were not traditionally schooled seems a prime example of either conservative deceit or deliberate ignorance.  And, in case you are actually interested in true facts, and a quantifiable definition of great mathematicians... here's at least one list of the 100 greatest per Mathematics Teacher magazine from 1962:  afrodita.rcub.bg.ac.yu/~flora/100.html  You might note that Kepler is among the names listed. [[User:QNA|QNA]] 11:22, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Taking a look at the first 10 names on the list:&lt;br /&gt;
*Newton - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Leibnitz - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Lagrange - self taught&lt;br /&gt;
*Euler - attended schooler and studied under Bernoulli&lt;br /&gt;
*Laplace - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Euclid - unkown, though he did probably attend Plato's Academy&lt;br /&gt;
*Gauss - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Archimedes - his schooling is also unknown&lt;br /&gt;
*Descartes - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Cardano - homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
:So 5 of the top 10 were definitely not homeschooled.  One (Cardano) definitely was,  one's (Lagrange's) status depends on how you define homeschooling, one (Euler) had both simultaneously, and two are unknown.  Do you really want to continue the claim that nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled?  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 13:36, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: You don't say, but perhaps your &amp;quot;list&amp;quot; is from the 1962 ranking by &amp;quot;Mathematics Teacher.&amp;quot;  Nearly all the entries are (oddly) prior to the 19th century, and it's likely that most of the referenced individuals were homeschooled.  I've already checked Newton, as explained above, and he did not enter a school under after age 10.  So I don't find anything credible about your statements.  If you want to provide details about the schooling of those to support a claim they were not homeschooled, then we can look at your detail.  Otherwise, your objection is not persuasive.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:18, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If you really count ''being schooled at home until only about fourth or fifth grade and then speding the rest of his schooling years being taught in formal schools'' as homeschooling (which seems to be a poor definition), then yes, Newton was homeschooled.  However, even in modern times, alegbra isn't even taught that young, so how much math schooling Newton could have received before the age of 10 is questionable.  As for the others: &lt;br /&gt;
::*Leibnitz: &amp;quot;At the age of seven, Leibniz entered the Nicolai School in Leipzig&amp;quot;[http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Leibniz.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Laplace: &amp;quot;Laplace attended a Benedictine priory school in Beaumont-en-Auge, as a day pupil, between the ages of 7 and 16.&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Laplace.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Gauss: &amp;quot;At the age of seven, Carl Friedrich Gauss started elementary school&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Gauss.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Descartes: &amp;quot;Descartes was educated at the Jesuit college of La Flèche in Anjou. He entered the college at the age of eight years&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Descartes.html] &lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we have been providing sources, you have yet to provide a source showing that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled. [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 15:52, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Our entry has numerous examples of great mathematicians who were homeschooled.  Have you even read it yet???&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: For all the bluster by critics, we are down to only four great mathematicians who may not have been homeschooled:  Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss and Descartes.  But even your description of those four are not persuasive, and raise more questions than they answer.  By age 7 or 8, great mathematicians are often quite a bit along already in their skills.  And what did these four mathematicians do after they entered school?  Laplace, for example, was apparently taught mathematics in a special way by his uncle in connection with the school. [http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0025-5572(194902)2%3A33%3A303%3C1%3AL%3E2.0.CO%3B2-%23] --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:24, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::First of all, I highly resent the use of the word bluster.  Second of all, you've forgotten Euler, Polya, Kepler, and Venn, mentioned above.  Third, here are more of from the list of the top 100:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Legendre: Went to college in Paris, before that schooling unstated [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Legendre.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Monge: attended Oragion college before going to Lyons at 16 [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Monge.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*D'Alembert: attended private school, then attended Collège des Quatre Nations [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/D'Alembert.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Fourier: first studied at Pallais's school [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Fourier.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Napier: homeschooled until age of 13 after (interestingly enough) his uncle sent his father a letter: &amp;quot;I pray you, sir, to send your son John to school; over to France or Flanders; for he cannot learn well at home&amp;quot; [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Napier.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Viete: attended school in Fontenay-le-Comte [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Viete.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Maclaurin: his family moved to Dumbarton specifically for the attendence of school [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Maclaurin.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Cavalieri: studied at a Jesuit monestary and the University of Pisa [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Cavalieri.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Wallis: attended school in Ashford and Tenterden [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Wallis.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Tartaglia: attended school from the age of four [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Tartaglia.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Poncet: attended Lycee Imperial [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Victor_Poncelet]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Chasles: attended Lycee Imperial [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Chasles.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Cremona: educated at Ginnasio in Pavia [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Cremona.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Boscovich: attended Ragusinum starting at age 9 [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Boscovich.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Lambert: attended school in Mulhouse [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Lambert.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Barrow: attended Charterhouse and Felstead [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Barrow.html]&lt;br /&gt;
:::::These are just ones whose non-homeschooled education can be confirmed.  This is also only from the top 50 of this one list.  Many of the top 50 not mentioned weren't necessarily homeschooled either.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 18:20, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Looking back, others and I have listed 24 mathematicians not homeschooled (Barrow, Boscovich, Cavalieri, Chasles, Cremona, D'Alembert, Descartes, Euler, Fourier, Gauss, Kepler, Lambert, Laplace, Legrende, Leibnitz, Maclaurin, Monge, Napier, Polya, Poncet, Tartaglia, Venn, Viete, Wallis).  Your article lists 11 who were homeschooled (Cauchy, Chebyshev, Erdos, Fermat, Galois, Hamilton, Jacobi, Mandelbrot, Pascal, Poincare, Riemann) (though I might have missed one or two) [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 20:04, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Were you unable to provide details about your four mathematicians (Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss and Descartes) as discussed above?  It seems you're now resorting to quantity rather than quality.  I've already debunked several claims among your new list of 24, and at least half of them fail to qualify as &amp;quot;great&amp;quot; mathematicians.  Unless you can back up your claim with respect to the four mentioned above, I'm going to move on confident that the great mathematicians were almost all homeschooled.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;By the way, I don't have a definition for &amp;quot;great mathematician,&amp;quot;&amp;quot; are your own words.  So why can't I call them great mathematicians?  I don't have a definition either, but I think all of them are great, and I certainly think a publication entitled &amp;quot;Mathematics Teacher&amp;quot; is more qualified than you to determine who qualifies as great.  Of Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss, and Descartes, only for Laplace did you provide any evidence against formal education being their primary source of education, while I have sources that outright state that they attended a formal school of some kind.  Also, I looked at your source for Laplace and I can't see beyond the first page, which states merely that Laplace's uncle was on the staff of his school and kindled his interest in mathematics, not that his uncle actually taught him in a special form.  My previous citations for their education still stand.  If you have any real proof that their education was still homeschooling of some sort after they entered a formal school, please enlighten me.  Also, if you have debunked some of my claims, would you be so kind as to show some proof for those as well? [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 21:10, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Sorry, ZTak, I'm not going to do your research for you.  You haven't provided a single mathematician with evidence that he was never homeschooled.  I've provided in this entry countless examples of great mathematicians who were.  I'll take a look at your other three examples, but am confident that nearly all of them were homeschooled also.  A mathematician is unlikely to develop to greatness without the head start, independence, encouragement and flexibility that homeschooling uniquely provides.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:18, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Now you're moving the goalposts.  I have to prove they were '''never''' homeschooled?  That's a universal negative.  I can't ever prove that.  That would be like asking me to prove that none of them were ever abducted by aliens who fed knowledge directly into their brain.  I can't prove that such abudctions never happened.  I can prove, which I did, that their main education was at some sort of formal school.  I proved that for Legendre, Monge, D'Alembert, Fourier, Napier, Viete, Maclaurin, Cavalieri, Wallis, Tartaglia, Poncet, Chasles, Cremona, Boscovich, Lambert, and Barrow.  Finally, you still have yet to prove your statement that Laplace was specially educated by his uncle.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 22:03, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I guess I can qualify too, eh?  I wrote a theorem for [[Synthetic Division]]--which had many, many corollaries--and I was &amp;quot;fake schooled&amp;quot; up to 2nd grade mathematics to substitute for missing the preschool deadline.  (&amp;quot;fake school&amp;quot; is what I called homeschooling at that age). -^_^- [[User:Kektklik|Fuzzy&amp;amp;#124;AFK]] 22:10, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Opinions ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This article voices personal opinions more so than fact with a conservative point of view, directly in line with the Conservapedia Commandments. Opinions? I can find examples in the text if you would like. [[User:Adg2011|Adg2011]] 20:55, 1 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sufiah Yusof ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Homeschooled prodigy Sufiah Yusof, who went to Oxford at 13, has been found working as a prostitute ten years later. Will this mentioned in the article? Doubt it. [http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/the-human-cost-of-trying-to-make-geniuses/2008/04/04/1207249453810.html] [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 21:03, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Parents who send a 13-year-old girl off to a [[liberal]] college should have their heads examined.  Your link supports that decision as the cause of this tragedy.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:30, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: The [[University of Oxford]] is a &amp;quot;liberal college&amp;quot;?  I see that it is also &amp;quot;One of the most influential universities in history...&amp;quot;.  At least that's what the Conservapedia article says.  Fancy that!  Pretty good going for a mere liberal college.  --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 22:38, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Yes on both points, and there's no contradiction there.  Hello, Oxford is [[liberal]] today.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:04, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Hello.  On what basis do you say that?  --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 23:07, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Ah, time for [[liberal denial]], I see.  If you can identify a half-dozen [[conservative]] professors at Oxford, then I'd be astonished.  I'm confident you can't.  Meanwhile, observe all the [[atheists]] and [[liberals]] there, and how students like Christopher Hitchens became Trotskyists while at Oxford. [http://www.experiencefestival.com/political_views].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:46, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Schlafly, when you become a qualified psychologist, then perhaps you will be in a position to make your insensitive and blasé judgements about this case. I challenge you to find a single reputable psychologist who will tell you that Sufiah Yusof's present condition is caused not by pushy parenting, &amp;quot;hot house&amp;quot; homeschooling, or excessive media exposure (or a combination of the three) but instead caused by attending an institution which you claim is a hotbed for &amp;quot;liberal deceit&amp;quot;. Or perhaps you'd instead like to play a game of Schlafly word bingo and throw in mentions of [[homosexuality]], [[intelligent design]], [[liberal hypocrisy]], [[liberal hysteria]] and [[liberal myths]] in your next post. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 19:32, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::: Peter, you're clueless about the dangers of sending a 13-year-old girl off to a [[liberal]] college.  If you think it takes a credentialed psychologist to explain that, then you have a lot to learn.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:52, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::: Sorry, I can't think what came over me: for a moment, I thought that facts and evidence were actually valued in this place. The issue here isn't that she was sent to a ''liberal'' college at age 13. It is that she was sent to a college '''at all''' at age 13. It is that she was hot-housed (a form of extremely rigorous homeschooling) and driven mercilessly by a pushy and overambitious father. It is that her father also did everything he could to overwhelm her with media attention. You boast on the Homeschooling page about people who went to university at age 13 or 14 and then became great mathematicians or philosophers or whatever. But the simple fact is that large numbers of homeschooled prodigies do '''not''' reach such pinnacles and instead have their lives ruined by the reckless practices of their parents. You're right. It doesn't take a credentialed psychologist to explain this scenario: Sufiah Yusof herself describes her experience at the hands of '''her parents''' (that's right, '''not''' Oxford's oppressive liberal regime) as a living hell and says that she has &amp;quot;enough of 15 years of physical and emotional abuse&amp;quot;.[http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/child-prodigy-working-as-a-prostitute/2008/04/04/1207249460601.html?page=2] Happy now? (I doubt it.) [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 06:09, 8 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Difficulties ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This article looks pretty strange to me, since it includes people who lived centuries ago, such as Leonardo Da Vinci.  But my understanding of the homeschooling movement indicates that it exists only in contrast to public schooling... and widespread public schooling is a much more recent innovation.  In the United States, for example, public schooling began shortly before the twentieth century.&lt;br /&gt;
Certainly many of these individuals belong on the page, but it seems disingenuous to claim that Benjamin Franklin was &amp;quot;homeschooled,&amp;quot; for example, since at that time such was still mostly the norm.  This makes it quite distinct from the modern era, wherein homeschooling is very unusual (speaking statistically, not as a value judgment).&lt;br /&gt;
By the same token, I wouldn't call him &amp;quot;public schooled,&amp;quot; either, naturally.  But this article blurs the line between modern homeschooling (a distinct &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; in opposition to national institutionalized public schools) and the simple sparcity of formal schooling in the centuries before government public schools.  Given the fact that the owner of this site, Andy Schlafly, is a well-known homeschooling advocate, indeed even teaching homeschooling classes on the site, and his personal view is endorsed by most of the sysops on the site, I think this gives the appearance (if not the fact) of trying to deliberately smudge the dividing line between the two eras.  Such an appearance or fact should be corrected.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another criticism might be made in that the list of &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; individuals is very liberal with that assignation.  I would suggest a clarifying sentence at the fore of the list, mentioning what the requirements for the list are... currently they are simply described as being &amp;quot;educated at home,&amp;quot; which is a very broad statement.  It should be clarified that these are individuals who have spent any portion of their youth or young adulthood being educated at home, since many of them spent years in formal education.&lt;br /&gt;
Please consider each of the above points separately on their own merit.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 22:59, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Your comments, though thoughtful, seem to reject the definition of homeschooling:&lt;br /&gt;
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::Homeschooling is a movement in which students receive education from a parent or guardian, or instructors acting under the direction of a parent or guardian, rather than from certified teachers in a formal school setting like a public school.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Though you implicitly seem to reject this definition, you don't propose an alternative.  Note that this definition applies whenever a formal school setting existed, which goes back at least to [[ancient Greece]], before Christ.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:13, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::As I note, there exists a generally understood distinction in most people's minds between the modern homeschooling &amp;quot;movement,&amp;quot; as it is described on the page, and the previous lack of public schools.  If you request a different definition, then I would suggest something such as &amp;quot;Homeschooling is the modern movement in which students... etc.&amp;quot;, and then the examples of individuals &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; previous to a certain date (1850 or so would seem reasonable, as that was about when public schooling came into being in America to the best of my knowledge) could be moved to a different section.  This new section could have the heading connecting the modern homeschooling movement with the tradition of home schooling which existed prior to the alternative of public schooling.  This would allow all of the names and such to remain on the page, and keep that connection which reflects positively on homeschooling (the clear intent) without being quite so absurd.  Would those changes satisfy you?--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 00:12, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::: I agree with TomMoore, and am very disappointed that Andy has ignored the previous discussion on this page and reverted to terminology that was changed because of these very concerns, and after discussion.  The article also says that &amp;quot;homeschooling began in the 1960s&amp;quot;, and whilst I don't know the exact date, or even the exact decade, I would think that the 1960s would be about right.  So people educated outside schools centuries or even millennia ago cannot properly be called &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::: (Actually, since writing that, I've been done a little research.  &amp;quot;Dr. Raymond S Moore, the inspiration to many homeschoolers of recent generations&amp;quot; started homeschooling in the 1940s.  The book &amp;quot;No More Public School&amp;quot;, published in 1972, is described as a &amp;quot;Pioneering how-to book about homeschooling, from the days when homeschooling had a tenuous legal status and the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; hadn't been coined&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
::: If the article is meant to be about the modern movement, then those older examples don't belong here.  If the page is meant to be about people educated outside the school system, then the title and content should be altered to reflect that, and the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; should be dropped for those older examples.&lt;br /&gt;
::: It is true that schools have existed as far back as ancient Greece (at least), but that doesn't mean that they have always existed since then, nor in all societies.  For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.  In other words, for much of history, being educated at home (or etc.) was the normal way that people got educated, and was not the exception, and was certainly not called &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 03:58, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Is it not the case that homeschooling in the contemporary sense exists in opposition to, or any rate as distinct from, 'compulsory' state education? One can only 'opt out' of a system if that system exists in the first place; and therefore one could say homeschooling o0nly became a valid concept once education of children was made compulsory by the state. Thus in the UK 'homeschooling' would only be a realistic concept after the Education Act of 1871 which decreed that all children should receive elementary education. That is not to say, of course, that children were not educated at home before then; but the notion of 'homeschooling' as a 'political' act or act of resistance against the perceived shortcomings (educational, moral, religious) of the official education system can only date from that point. [[User:Mediaevalist|Mediaevalist]] 07:14, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Homeschooling must be as old as schooling itself.  There's no way around that.  Just as pacifism is as old as war, and adultery is as old as marriage, and theft is as old as private property, and literacy is as old as the Bible.  The modern homeschooling ''movement'' can be traced to the 1960s, just as anti-war ''movements'' can have modern beginnings.  I've changed a phrase in the entry to reflect this.  Thanks. &lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Philip says, &amp;quot;For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.&amp;quot;  I doubt that, as schooling was often done by religions independent of wealth.  I doubt that [[ancient Greece]] had a financial test for admitting students to its fine schools.  But, regardless, I think that is an overly material view of the concept of homeschooling, which refers to a decision made by parents to eschew common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning that they believe is more beneficial to the child.  That type of decision is as old as families and education.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:18, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: &amp;quot;Modern&amp;quot; schooling was begun, I believe, by Christian churches.  &amp;quot;Sunday School&amp;quot; was not religious education for children while the adults listened to the sermon, but &amp;quot;secular&amp;quot; education on the only day that the children were not at work in the mines, fields, or factories.  Eventually, this church-sponsored education was taken over by governments, but prior to the churches doing this, there was little if anything in the way of formal education.  Ancient Greece may have been different; I don't know, but I wasn't trying to suggest that schooling started off only for the rich; I actually meant that this likely came ''later'' than Greece, although even in Greece I ''suspect'' that it was not for everyone.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: But more to the point is what Mediaevalist said above, that homeschooling is an 'opting out' of the official education system, and as such ''can't'' exist until there is an official education system.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: Your change to the homeschooling ''movement'' starting in the 1960s doesn't help:  The first line of the article defines homeschooling ''as the movement''.  Previously the article said (in effect), &amp;quot;Homeschooling is a movement... Homeschooling began in the 1960s&amp;quot;  Now, it says (in effect) &amp;quot;Homeschooling is a movement...that began in the 1960s&amp;quot;.  So pre-1960s examples are still not &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:21, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::: Good point about the flaw in the definition.  Homeschooling should not be defined as a movement, and I've deleted that reference.  There is a &amp;quot;homeschooling movement.&amp;quot; Just as a pacifist does not have to belong to an antiwar movement, a homeschooler need not belong to any movement.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::: Homeschooling does not require &amp;quot;opting out&amp;quot; and to limit the definition to that is to relegate it perpetually to the fringe.  Homeschooling does typically entail rejecting a formalized and popularized schooling system, but as already noted such systems have existed at least since [[ancient Greece]].  Surely the ancient [[Hebrews]] and [[Christians]] also had church-based schooling systems.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:56, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: I don't particularly agree with modern homeschooling and all those older examples being lumped in together, but I have to admit that the article is probably more consistent and less objectionable now.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: I guess that the answer to whether or not the ancient Hebrews and Christians had church-based schooling systems depends on what you mean by &amp;quot;schooling&amp;quot;, but I think the answer is essentially &amp;quot;no&amp;quot;, they didn't.  That is, there might well have been ''some'' things that children learnt in church, but as far as I know, there were no formalised schools run by anyone for the most part, for thousands of years.  Almost all education was done directly by parents, and even this was pretty limited, with the result that most could not even read and write.  Sure, no doubt they learnt various life skills, but even this would not have been in any sort of formalised schooling in the home, let along in schools.  It was probably more in the form akin to apprenticeships, that is, children learnt their parent's trade by helping their parents in their work.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 11:26, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::: I appreciate your first paragraph, but must disagree with your second.  I'm sure the ancient [[Hebrews]] had schooling just as the [[ancient Greeks]] did, and probably many other ancient civilizations did also.  How else could Pharisees and other members of the priestly class be trained?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::: There is a modern (and [[liberal]]) tendency to look down on our ancient ancestors.  All indications, however, are that they were ''smarter'' than people today.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 12:54, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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(Unindented)&lt;br /&gt;
This is a minor improvement, Mr. Schlafly, but I still think the problem exists.  Let me address your replies.&lt;br /&gt;
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''Homeschooling must be as old as schooling itself.  There's no way around that.  Just as pacifism is as old as war, and adultery is as old as marriage, and theft is as old as private property, and literacy is as old as the Bible.  The modern homeschooling ''movement'' can be traced to the 1960s, just as anti-war ''movements'' can have modern beginnings.  I've changed a phrase in the entry to reflect this.  Thanks.''&lt;br /&gt;
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That is not necessarily true.  I would argue that homeschooling as a concept, as it is understood by the vast majority of people, would be construed as the deliberate choice to teach a child at home as specifically opposed to public schooling.  This latter part of the definition is the one missing from this article's approach to the matter, since most people (as indicated here) disagree with the idea that anyone in history taught at home was &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; in the sense in which the idea is understood today.  I think this is the real substantive point, in fact, behind this disagreement.  You should take note, I think, of that fact that both I (as liberal as they come) and PJR (as conservative as they come, and your most intelligent sysop) are neither of us opposed to homeschooling, and yet we feel that this article is misleadingly favorable to the practice, whereas you (a strong advocate) feel it is not.  Perhaps you might want to step back from this one, and a few other outside opinions on the matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Tom, you overrely on your perceptions of what others think (see point 11 in [[liberal style]]).  Homeschooling is not defined in terms of [[public school]].  The view of homeschoolers towards public school is varied, and public schools themselves have changed throughout history and are different in different locations today.  Homeschooling is a parental approach to child-rearing that would exist regardless of the form taken by public schools.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I assume from your aspersion that you are declining to take a step back from this, despite the fact that you are extraordinarily partisan to one side in this discussion?  That is somewhat disappointing.&lt;br /&gt;
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::It seems to me that it is only reasonable to rely on &amp;quot;perceptions of what others think&amp;quot; when it comes to interpreting the meaning of words.  Words mean only what they are agreed-upon to mean; this is why meanings shift over time in a sometimes-dramatic manner (such as &amp;quot;geek&amp;quot;).  &amp;quot;Homeschooling&amp;quot; to you seems to mean &amp;quot;any alternative schooling by non-certified individuals at home.&amp;quot;  That is a very reasonable interpretation, and I am not saying it is ''wrong.'' I am just saying that the vast majority of people specifically identify homeschooling with the more modern &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; (as it was put previously), not with your broader definition, and that should be taken into account.  Or, if you want to change the way people think about it, you should specifically contradict the colloquial definition and state more explicitly the difference between the customary understanding and your usage.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Tom, you're not even quoting me correctly and still don't seem to understand the essence of homeschooling.  Please expand your horizons and get to know some homeschooling families, and read about those who have homeschooled in history.  Then we can chat again.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:54, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I thought I was quoting you adequately, and apologize if there was some error in the above quote (&amp;quot;perceptions of what others think&amp;quot;).  It was copy-and-pasted from your own words, though.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::If the definition of homeschooling I give above is also inaccurate, that is possible, but it is not a quote, it was an attempt to sum up for use in our dialog.  Please substitute your whole definition above, if that helps.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I am not sure what you mean about &amp;quot;expanding my horizons;&amp;quot; I was good friends with an enormous family that homeschooled all their children and then sent them to the University of Stuebenville.  They were about as devout a set of devotees to homeschooling as can be imagined.  I know them and their views, as well as your own, quite well.  That's why I opened this conversation, to address a gross shortcoming in the article.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::The &amp;quot;homeschooled in history&amp;quot; item is the crux of the issue here, and so I strongly urge you not to dismiss me as you have.  My concerns are stated clearly and substantively several times: I feel that the article blurs the divide between the commonly-held perspective of what &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is, and a historical although perhaps technically accurate analogue, and that this blurring is encyclopedic.  It is easy to brush me aside with personal remarks about how I need to &amp;quot;expand my horizons,&amp;quot; but clearly less easy to address my concerns.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 20:03, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::: Tom, I'm not going to spend all night discussing this with you, and your account will be blocked if you just talk here.  You misquoted the definition of homeschooling and seem blinded by your contact with an unusual single homeschooling family.  If you continue to think that people today are very different from people hundreds of years ago, and homeschool for very different reasons, you're wrong.  Meet more homeschoolers and read more history; you can do both on this site.  Then let's chat further.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:11, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I have made substantive edits tonight, such as to [[Alice and Wonderland]], [[Beowulf]], and [[Mind/body]], so I am not worried about being blocked for &amp;quot;just talk[ing] here,&amp;quot; since I am not doing so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I am sorry if it appears as though I misquoted the definition.  As I said scrupulously above, you may substitute the whole of your definition if you would like, since I was simply quoting it as I referred to it, rather than suggesting it as some sort of change.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::Please, do not continue to speculate as to my personal knowledge of homeschooling.  That is not the ''only'' homeschooling family I know, I was mentioning them only to let you know that your assertion that I was not familiar with any was entirely wrong.  I am an Eagle Scout, and many of those in my troop were homeschooled.  I assure you, I am fully familiar with the concepts and people involved, and it doesn't change my considered opinion of the article at all.  How would it, after all?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::::I really am only trying to get a firm conclusion on the matter to which I have referred you: the discrepancy between your definition of homeschooling, which includes all such schooling throughout history, and the common understanding which generally is understood as referring to the modern movement.  Please do not block me by way of avoiding this matter, I am quite serious and think I have presented a very compelling case.  If you personally do not have time (since you say you don't want to spend all night on it), you have numerous other sysops.  Ordinarily, of course, I would just make the edits myself, but it is pretty clear that on topics like this no one is allowed to edit anything that might be disagreed with, without checking with an authority figure first.  Perhaps one of the other active sysops - Conservative, Croicite, Ed Poor, or the like - might also weigh in, since Phillip J Rayment concurred with me earlier along with another user?--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 20:32, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
''Philip says, &amp;quot;For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.&amp;quot;  I doubt that, as schooling was often done by religions independent of wealth.  I doubt that [[ancient Greece]] had a financial test for admitting students to its fine schools.  But, regardless, I think that is an overly material view of the concept of homeschooling, which refers to a decision made by parents to eschew common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning that they believe is more beneficial to the child.  That type of decision is as old as families and education.''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But that type of decision is not being described in the article.  If you want to broaden it to include that, I think it would be appropriate to do so.  The key would be specificity, then; the article should be changed to reflect that this is a list of people who have &amp;quot;eschew[ed] common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning&amp;quot;, very different from what most people think when they read the article currently (which presents the matter as synonymous with modern homeschooling).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Modern homeschoolers are no different from ancient ones in rejecting formal schools.  We define the term homeschooling and I doubt many would argue with it.  The people listed satisfy that definition.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::The people do satisfy the definition, but I disagree that many would not argue with the blurring between modern homeschooling and historical &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; that is engaged in.  At the very least, your change in the customary usage should be acknowledged.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consider, for example, the fact that a large proportion of wealthy children were &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; in Europe for centuries, in the sense that they were tutored in their home by professionals.  This was the norm for the wealthy, yet your definition includes such as being &amp;quot;homeschooled,&amp;quot; contradictory to the common perception of the matter.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 15:43, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: No, the definition is clear that homeschooling rejects the approach of &amp;quot;certified&amp;quot; teachers (or its equivalent).  Wealthy children in Europe who were schooled in a formal setting by certified teachers (or its equivalent) should not be included; those taught by their parents, relatives, or non-certified teachers (or its equivalent) should be included.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree, the definition is clear, but it is only natural to assume that when one is speaking of &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; that one is speaking of what most people know of with the concept, as explained above.  At the very least, explicate further.  Otherwise at least the appearance of an attempt to deceive exists, even if that is not the case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::And again, I would urge you to step back from this and let other sysops handle it; it's only appropriate.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Pornography ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm deleting the reference to homeschooling being remedy for pornogrpahy addiction.  I read a study earlier this month which showed that there was actually a higher chance of a child becoming involved in pornography and other unsavoury internet based activities if home schooled.  Of course the study applied to equally supervised children, which is, of course, rarely the case in homeschooling.  Still rather than promote complacancy and information which is empirically wrong I felt the need to delete the reference.  I can find the name of the study if anyone needs it, but as far as I know there is no digital reference.  {{unsigned|ObamaSharma}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== To the &amp;quot;Disadvantages of Homeschooling&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think one of the major disadvantages that is not mentioned in the article (though it is generally touched on) involves a certain kind of social interaction. The article, as it is right now, implies that the social development that homeschooling can stunt is more or less limited to making friends, having conversations, etc. (on top of peer pressure, bullying, intimidation, etc. as mentioned). I feel it is important to include '''Tolerance''', '''Working together in spite of differences''', and '''Compromise to accomplish like goals'''. I think it goes without saying that we all have had to work very closely with people we've disagreed with on almost everything, and elitism (which I never thought to be a characteristic of homeschooling until I came to Conservapedia) can stall progress. I think mentioning parents enrolling their kids in social organizations can satisfy compromise to accomplish like goals, but I question how much the kids would be exposed to other cultures and races, that would develop tolerance, since these organizations often have many class and moral characteristics in common. I know many of the conservative sysops on this page &amp;quot;Don't believe in tolerance when it compromises truth&amp;quot; but I think we can still agree that different races, classes, and faiths can still produce good people that certainly don't deserve being inferior to the stereotypical american WASP. Please keep in mind that I'm not talking about anything other than the physical world, so please take any arguments of what Jesus said or what will happen to their souls if they don't accept Him elsewhere. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 17:17, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If public schools were about these things, then I would agree.  Unfortunately what you have is positions being forced upon children in the name of 'tolerance'.  As long as you agree with them then you're fine.  If you don't -- look out.  Homeschooling is about allowing children to avoid having a value system pushed upon them from a &amp;quot;community&amp;quot; that has decided it already knows what is right and will tell you to accept the same -- even against your own family. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:20, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::That's a good point, and I can concede to it. Could not the argument be made that the value system that the family lives by (which could include racist, elitism, exclusivity, among other things) be more aggressively pushed onto the subordinate child? I find that I'm a little uncomfortable with people who were raised with limited exposure to different ideas and cultures, but I am no expert on the subject, as I'm sure is apparent, which is why I'm speaking here instead of trying to edit the page. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 17:17, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Anything can be misused, and certainly homeschooling ''can'' have these problems if it is not done properly, but you seem to be seeing government schools through rose-coloured glasses.  When I was in primary school, there was some racism there (although I didn't understand what it was at the time), but I remember none of that from Sunday School and church.  Many homeschooling families are Christians, and my point is that they can get many of these social interactions via church and church-related activities, and that's likely to be a better environment for them than a government school environment that often has undesirable values.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 23:11, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Perhaps I'm simply recalling my own experiences, which were better than most since I attended one of the better elementary schools in my county before finishing elementary and middle school in the fundamental system, and my high school was one of the better schools in the county as well. I suppose it all should be taken on a case by case basis, and my problem then is with the elitism (and in some cases blatant discrimination against public schools) exhibited around Conservapedia instead of having any problems with homeschooling. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 11:46, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Capolavoro046, I read as far as your absurd accusation of &amp;quot;elitism&amp;quot; above.  There is nothing about homeschooling or this site that is &amp;quot;elitist&amp;quot; and I suspect that ideology is clouding your opinions here.  Maybe you did have a good experience in [[public school]] at some time in the past, but without more information it is impossible to assess that.  No one is claiming that every student is ruined by public school, but public school does deprive its students of classroom prayer.  As a teacher, I can assure you that such deprivation does have an adverse effect.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:06, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Considering that one of this site's very strong focal points is trying to influence homeschooling, I would say that my &amp;quot;accusations&amp;quot; (though I would describe them as observations) of some people having an elitist view are not absurd at all. For example, the entire list of [[professor values]] demonstrates the elitist view, as its sole purpose is propaganda against teachers. Do not be so quick to apply a label to everyone that falls into a classification. I think they have a word for that... what is it? Oh yes, stereotyping. To address the depravity of prayer, I disagree passionately with you. Every year in school, we as students were offered a &amp;quot;moment of silence&amp;quot; following the pledge of allegiance (which did not ignore &amp;quot;Under [[God]]&amp;quot;) for prayer, among other things. I feel that you have a very closed-minded view of things, and coming from a SysOp from a site that works so fervently against the media, I feel you use media coverage of incidences in public schools as a crutch, and choose not to look at things on a case by case basis because it could possibly hurt your arguments. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 23:06, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh, and as far as a direct example of elitism on this site: The caption under the photo about the fight that went up on YouTube reads, &amp;quot;A fight typical of [[public school]] students.&amp;quot; I wish I knew you, Ashclafay, so I could ask you to look me in the eye and say that isn't an elitist statement. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 15:26, 19 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Capolavoro046, I'll look you in the eye and ask you to be concise.  I didn't read all your comments above.  Surely you can make your point well in a few short sentences.  Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:07, 20 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You know, having an outspoken proponent of homeschooling such as yourself respond to a reasoned objection with &amp;quot;Too long; didn't read.&amp;quot; would not exactly fill me with confidence about you teaching my hypothetical children. --[[User:Gulik|Gulik]] 17:42, 23 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've been accused of wordiness many times; but I can also be concise. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 19:53, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: My addition is what happens when the parents are not effective teachers? I have no problem with homeschooling, and believe that both homeschooling and public school have their advantages and disadvantages, but I do believe that while teachers at public school are forced to be held to a standard (not that they always meet it, and not always are the standards enforced, but generally) whereas homeschooling is not always as effective as this article would have you believe. Looking at the pros and cons of every issue is a good thing, and maybe some credibility would be gained by this article by adding some of the potential disadvantages. -- [[User:Aaronp|Aaronp]] 23:19, 29 May 2008 PST&lt;br /&gt;
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== Jordin Sparks ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jordin Sparks won the American Idol contest one year, which is good and fun for her.  I wish her the best.  But does that media award place her as a &amp;quot;prominent American&amp;quot; in the league of the others on the list?  I don't think so, and think she should remain a footnote on the music issue and not in the main list.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:07, 20 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I added her because we have so few examples of homeschoolers born in the late 20th century, and thus homeschooled during the modern homeschooling movement.  Such people are likely to be less prominent, simply because they are younger.  I have some thoughts on how to manage this, but I must do our schooling here at home before spending time editing this morning.  {{unsigned|Hsmom}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: If there is a goal of having homeschoolers born in the late 20th century, then the math prodigies would be better picks.  But I don't see what is so special about the late 20th century.  Homeschooling now is not that different from 100 years ago.  Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:27, 23 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This has been removed==&lt;br /&gt;
Completely =)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Diet==&lt;br /&gt;
Parents whose children attend public schools can't constantly monitor what is served at the schools. Diet is worse in public schools because the &amp;quot;junk&amp;quot; is readily available and rather inexpensive too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A trial experiment is in order. Stock a homeschooler's fridge with a variety of &amp;quot;health&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;junk&amp;quot; foods and leave them to their studying/eating. I think you can view one example... 5 cans of w*****d c***m disappear within a week.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, &amp;quot;appears&amp;quot; isn't fact. +_+ &amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;always tired&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; [[User:Kektklik|Kektk]] 16:18, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You make good points.  But whatever the reason, the difference is not likely to change.  And parents don't usually put greasy french fries in the fridge.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:44, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: What is preventing the parents from sending the child to school with a healthy lunch instead? The related question is are cuts to school lunch programs having a negative impact on the options for the school for providing healthy food (fast food style is less expensive than getting good produce). Ketchup is not a vegetable. --[[User:Rutm|Rutm]] 20:25, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know if this is a difference between Australia and America or between now and when I went to school, but when I was in primary school (years 0 to 6), the school didn't serve ''any'' food, and we either brought our own or (rarely in my case) bought it from the milk bar over the road.  Admittedly there was a canteen in high school (years 7 to 12), but again, I rarely used it, instead bringing my lunch from home.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can quite accept that the diet of homeschoolers is better than in government schools (although it should have a reference), but how much of this is because the homeschooling parent can &amp;quot;constantly monitor&amp;quot; what their children eat, and how much is because the homeschooling parent cares more than some (not all) parents of government school students, which is likely a factor in why they are homeschooling in the first place?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:05, 31 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Homeschooling. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just out of curiosity, why are so many people listed as being homeschooled, when the explanation then goes on to say that they joined school at age 10 or 9 or whatever. Surely that's just a mix of both, and so a little irrelevant?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I don't think where one learns to read, write and do arithmetic is &amp;quot;a little irrelevant.&amp;quot;  Ask the millions of illiterate people, or the people who help them, if their lack of learning is &amp;quot;irrelevant&amp;quot;.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:14, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Ahh but reading, writing, and arithmetic are just tools. They do not form any abstract thought. So, these peope listed who learned the basics at home before attending institutionalized education systems, if you think they are so wonderful, you can't cite their very limited homeschooling as the reason.[[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 19:03, 2 September 2008 (EDT) (this was deleted before... please don't delete it again, it doesn't read like my usual fiery stuff, lol...)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: I don't agree with your downplaying the significance of reading, writing and arithmetic.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:42, 2 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I agree with Aschlafly. Reading, writing and arithmetic are the backbone of an education. I look forward to homeschooling my own children one day, at least until their teenage years, so I can teach them one other important thing missing in government run schools - values. [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 19:52, 2 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Nowhere did I downplay the signifigance of the &amp;quot;three R's.&amp;quot; The point I was making, is that they form the foundation for advanced knowledge, but do not in and of themselves create the values that some people are attributing to homeschooling. They are neutral things, and have nothing to do with anything liberal or conservative. Mr. Schlafly's point was that these children who went to institutionalized school systems after 9 or 10 still learned their basics at home, and that somehow was responsible for their prominence. But I beg to differ. What you've learned by 9 or 10 years old, I don't feel is the deciding factor. I have no issue with Mr. Schlafly defending homeschooling. He's chosen it as his cause, and whether I personally agree or not the fact remains that at least he is motivated by the desire to educate children. We ca debate his methods all day and night but the decision to brighten a child's mind, in itself is never a bad decision at all. But I digress... I just wanted to show that he may not have chosen the best battleground for defending homeschooling with THIS PARTICULAR facet of homeschooling (go back up to the start of this specific topic in case my ramblings have made you forget, lol...).[[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 08:03, 3 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other Factors Contributing to Homeschool Success ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Without disputing the achievements of homeschooled students, I would like to see a more detailed examination of related factors which likely contribute to this achievement.  For instance: homeschooled students are almost certainly going to benefit from having a full-time, stay-at-home parent, as this is essentially a prerequisite to proper homeschooling.  Surely full-time parenting carries substantial benefits in and of itself; it has been my experience that students who come from a home environment with a stay-at-home parent tend to be more disciplined, more courteous, and typically more academically advanced than those who do not.  Additionally, by the same logic, homeschooled students are quite likely to come from a stable two-parent household; it seems very unlikely that a single parent would be able to both make ends meet and properly homeschool.  The benefits of a two-parent household are, if anything, more pronounced than the benefits of full-time parenting; of the students who have failed my class in the past several years, better than half came from single parent homes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would this article be an appropriate place for such an examination, or should it be placed in a related article?  --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 12:14, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You make good [[conservative]] points, but they are more appropriate for a different entry.  [[Homeschooling]] produces achievement and behavior that cannot be found among [[public school]] kids from wealthy, two-parent homes.  Many of the [[teen mass murderers]] were [[public school]] kids from &amp;quot;ideal&amp;quot;, privileged families, for example.  Virtually all the extraordinary geniuses and super-achievers were [[homeschooled]], but not all were from &amp;quot;ideal&amp;quot; families.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:18, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks for the response.  I'll work on a new article to cover the issue.  --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 20:28, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Tutors ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the content on this subject seems to be from the viewpoint of the pupil or parent. Have you any advice for potential tutors? -[[User:CraigW|CraigW]] 09:22, 28 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Atheist Homeschooler. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi. I am a Homeschooler.  Been one since second grade.  &lt;br /&gt;
Starting college next year. I'm also an atheist.  &lt;br /&gt;
I just wanted to let you guys know that not all atheists like the public schools.  &lt;br /&gt;
They teach all about Kwanzaa and Hanukkah, but we never learned what Christmas was about.  (Incidentally, we also never learned that there are lots of people out there who don't believe in a god at all.)  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I can see why many Christians get mad at the PS system.  &lt;br /&gt;
I read the story about the kid who got an &amp;quot;F&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
in art for writing a bible verse on his drawing.  That is unfair.  &lt;br /&gt;
But most atheists I know aren't like that.  &lt;br /&gt;
In fact, my whole Home school group in Lynchburg is made up of atheists or agnostics. &lt;br /&gt;
Most of us don't see anything wrong with classroom prayer, either.  &lt;br /&gt;
As long as the child who's praying makes up his own mind to pray &lt;br /&gt;
(without being forced to by a teacher), and it doesn't disturb the rest of the class, &lt;br /&gt;
who cares if they pray?  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So please, don't think that all atheists are evil, &lt;br /&gt;
oppressive overlords of education.  &lt;br /&gt;
It's just a handful of Liberals in charge of the school board &lt;br /&gt;
who are way too worried that some minority is going to get &lt;br /&gt;
their feelings hurt, and not worried enough about educating young Americans. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:PatV|PatV]] 10:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tim Tebow ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure if he's as notable as the one's listed, but Tim Tebow&amp;amp;mdash;as I learned last night during the BCS Championship&amp;amp;mdash;was homeschooled but allowed to play football for a public school due to Florida law.  [[User:JLauttamus|Jeffrey W. Lauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;Discussion&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;]] 14:46, 9 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==United Nations  Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC)==&lt;br /&gt;
I added, in part, &amp;quot;An example of such possible restriction is seen in the United States, in which a New Hampshire Court ordered a thriving 10 year old Christian homeschooled girl to attend public school, solely in order to expose her to &amp;quot;different points of view at a time in her life when she must begin to critically evaluate multiple systems of belief and behavior.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;ttp://onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=659638&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The [[Fairness doctrine]] as it is designed to work. The girl offended the counselor by witnessing to him/her, and was disturbed by his refusal. If she expressed a different liberal &amp;quot;ideologies&amp;quot; and found resistance, i think it would be the counselor would undergo &amp;quot;sensitivity training.   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consistent with the courts reasoning, all children who are raised in secular environments (and are basically protected from Christian practices such as prayer and Bible reading in school under State-sponsored secularism), should be compelled to go to a Christian school to be exposed to that &amp;quot;POV&amp;quot;. [[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 17:09, 30 August 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Excellent point.  Very well put!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:31, 30 August 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== There is a serious issue here that Conservapedia is failing to acknowledge ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my personal geographic location, the vast majority of homeschoolers are educated by the [[public school]] system, either through a website known as Florida Virtual School, which is operated by the state government under the [[Florida Department of Education]], or through a program known as &amp;quot;homebound&amp;quot; where the local school district sends a tuitor to the homeschooled students' homes and use the same liberal textbooks used in public school facilities. There are homeschooled students that are ''not'' associated with the public school system as well, but changing the setting to students' homes opposed to &amp;quot;brick and mortar institutions&amp;quot; does not combat atheist and liberal indoctrination in itself. I would note this on the article myself, but I figured it would be best to bring it to the talk page first to discuss. Also note that I personally have nothing against homeschooling, but it's simply not a &amp;quot;cure all.&amp;quot; [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 16:34, 20 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You're absolutely right, and please feel free to make appropriate edits to this (or any other) entry.  That said, this is another example of how the exceptions do not prove the rule.  The correlation is still very high being homeschooling and open-mindedness or [[faith]], even with the problem you describe.  Students are better off in a virtual school than a bricks-and-mortar school, and most homeschooled students nationwide reject the virtual school curricula anyway.  So it's a bit like saying that not all non-smokers are healthy.  True, but the non-smokers are better off than the smokers, on average.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:22, 20 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::Absolutely; I never intended to be any kind of an &amp;quot;exception to any rule,&amp;quot; but rather to point out a very important point. In my opinion, liberal bias is a terrible problem in all settings, not just [[public schools]], [[private schools]], or [[homeschooling]]. [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 16:26, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Irrelevant information ==&lt;br /&gt;
There's a couple of bits of information which seem totally irrelevant:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- The most successful mathematician in contests in history, Reid Barton, was homeschooled.[2]'' - One example out of a bunch of mathematicians isn't really evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- The top college football player and the first to win the Heisman Trophy as a sophomore, Tim Tebow, was homeschooled until college.[3]'' - Doesn't have anything to do with homeschooling since the football skills he learned weren't learned by being homeschooled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- A Wimbledon tennis star, Melanie Oudin, chose homeschooling beginning in 7th grade:'' - Also doesn't have anything to do with homeschool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm all for homeschooling, I was homeschooled myself, and several of my friends were, but this still seems irrelavent to the concept of homeschooling, and it shouldn't be included in the first paragraph of the text. Maybe later, as examples of people who were homeschooled but not like it's used right now, like a reason be homeschooled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Irrelevant information ==&lt;br /&gt;
There's a couple of bits of information which seem totally irrelevant:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- The most successful mathematician in contests in history, Reid Barton, was homeschooled.[2]'' - One example out of a bunch of mathematicians isn't really evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- The top college football player and the first to win the Heisman Trophy as a sophomore, Tim Tebow, was homeschooled until college.[3]'' - Doesn't have anything to do with homeschooling since the football skills he learned weren't learned by being homeschooled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- A Wimbledon tennis star, Melanie Oudin, chose homeschooling beginning in 7th grade:'' - Also doesn't have anything to do with homeschool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm all for homeschooling, I was homeschooled myself, and several of my friends were, but this still seems irrelavent to the concept of homeschooling, and it shouldn't be included in the first paragraph of the text. Maybe later, as examples of people who were homeschooled but not like it's used right now, like a reason be homeschooled.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Homeschooling&amp;diff=762722</id>
		<title>Talk:Homeschooling</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Homeschooling&amp;diff=762722"/>
		<updated>2010-03-17T12:15:03Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[/archive 1|Archive 1]] (20th March 2008)&lt;br /&gt;
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&lt;br /&gt;
==Snipping George Bernard Shaw and Mark Twain==&lt;br /&gt;
I'm removing&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[George Bernard Shaw]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Mark Twain]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Both men had complex opinions that varied during the course of their lives, but calling them &amp;quot;Christian&amp;quot; is a stretch. My reasons for excluding Shaw are given above. As for Mark Twain, he did write a sympathetic book about Joan of Arc. However, his writings are replete with sarcastic and dismissive remarks about organized religion. He refused to let &amp;quot;Letters from the Earth&amp;quot; be published until after his death. In Mark Twain's Letters, we read:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:From a gentleman in Buffalo Clemens one day received a letter inclosing an incompleted list of the world's &amp;quot;One Hundred Greatest Men,&amp;quot; men who had exerted &amp;quot;the largest visible influence on the life and activities of the race.&amp;quot;  The writer asked that Mark Twain examine the list and suggest names, adding &amp;quot;would you include Jesus, as the founder of Christianity, in the list?&amp;quot; To the list of statesmen Clemens added the name of Thomas Paine; to the list of inventors, Edison and Alexander Graham Bell.  The question he answered in detail.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Twain's answer was that if the compiler of the list added Jesus, he should also add Satan: &amp;quot;From A.D. 350 to A.D. 1850 these gentlemen exercised a vaster influence over a fifth part of the human race than was exercised over that fraction of the race by all other influences combined.  Ninety-nine hundredths of this influence proceeded from Satan, the remaining fraction of it from Jesus.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Twain has been labelled &amp;quot;deist,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;agnostic,&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;atheist.&amp;quot; Gary Sloan suggests ([http://www.writerscramp.ca/archives/mark_twain.htm Mark Twain's Covert War with his Maker]) that he believed in a ''malignant'' God, and says &amp;quot;Viewing Satan as a heroic rebel against the real Archfiend, Twain came to identify with the fallen cherub and often used him as a mouthpiece.&amp;quot; Perhaps his views were so complex that he was all of these things and a Christian at the same time, but he was certainly not a Christian as the term is ordinarily meant. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 20:03, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:But if they were homeschooled, shouldn't they be in the &amp;quot;other&amp;quot; section of the list? [[User:Human|Human]] 18:21, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Sure. That section didn't exist when I removed them; it was a single list of Christians. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 20:32, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Doing. [[User:Human|Human]] 21:25, 4 May 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The part on Mark Twain doesn't even discuss him being homeschooled, only him completing five grades of school. Also the majority of the people on the list were born before state sponsored public schooling. [[User:Rellik|Rellik]] 22:56, 18 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: You're in the wrong place if you want to censor information from the page.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:09, 18 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Marx, Himmler, Oscar Wilde... ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I would love to see a good, non-ideological reason as to why these names were eliminated from the list. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:08, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Why is a non-ideological reason necessary? [[User:DanH|DanH]] 20:10, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
: Because if they were only deleted for ideological reasons that is an admission that the article is intentionally misleading.  --[[User:Merriweather|Merriweather]] 20:13, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Well, this is an encyclopedia article about homeschooling, right? And a section of that article is dedicated to listing prominent persons who were homeschooled in one way or another, right? And a noted political/economic theorist, an important figure in the Nazi regime, and a great Irish writer all fit both parts of the prominent/homeschooled criteria for that list, so there is no reason to take them off the list...unless including them on the list somehow makes homeschooling look bad; in that case the removal is strictly ideological....which brings into question the intellectual honesty and integrity of the article, and thus the project writ large. [[User:AliceBG|AliceBG]] 20:16, 13 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::I undid the ideological deletion as it runs counter to Conservapedia's ethos of censorship of facts see [[Conservapedia:How_Conservapedia_Differs_from_Wikipedia]], Item 9 - &amp;quot;Wikipedia editors who are far more liberal than the American public frequently censor factual information. Conservapedia does not censor any facts that comport with the basic rules.&amp;quot; [[User:Brixham|Brixham]] 14:44, 14 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::DanH, so if you won't provide a non-ideological reason can you tell me why you blatantly go against the Conservapedia differences with Wikipedia? I always thought you seemed a reasonable guy.  [[User:Brixham|Brixham]] 15:19, 14 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The removal was no less ideological than the inclusion of the names. I mean, Himmler? [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:24, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Touché :) [[Image:User Fox.png|10px]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]])&amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; 19:28, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:If they are to be put in, I would at the very least ask for a citation. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 19:26, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Where are the citations that [[Karl Marx]] was homeschooled?  I'll look further for them, but haven't found any yet.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:56, 15 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Problems with this page ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think there are some major problems with this article; not in terms of the content being wildly inaccurate but rather being rather narrow in its focus. If you look at the opening line, it defines homeschool as &amp;quot;a movement consisting of 1-2 million students in the United States&amp;quot;. That's problematic because for a start, because homeschooling is not a &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; (at best, it's a subsection of the conservative movement) and it's definitely not isolated to the United States.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Furthermore, I think you're striving a little too hard to give homeschooling as much credit as possible. Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against homeschooling. But at no stage in the article have you clearly and accurately defined what homeschooling is, because as I noted, the opening definition is extremely flawed. Consequently, when you get to someone like Charles Dickens, I reckon you're drawing a bit of a long bow. To take the Dickens example: as a history teacher, I feel that we should be quite clear that Charles Dickens was never formally homeschooled in the manner that the article implies and the fact that he didn't receive an education for much of his childhood had nothing to do with such things as &amp;quot;a different, often better, education environment with different, often better, opportunities&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;freedom from liberal and/or atheistic bias and culture in schools&amp;quot;. To simplify things as much as possible, he ceased to have a formal education because his father was imprisoned for financial reasons. And I can tell you that his mother was no great believer in Dickens getting an education: she was the one that forced Dickens to work in a factory. In short, there is no evidence whatsoever that Dickens received any active home education. Dickens is just one example of the wider problem with the entire article, in that you suffer from a poor definition which consequently makes many of the names that you list as &amp;quot;arguably homeschooled&amp;quot; look silly. Even under a solid definition of homeschooling, I don't think people such as Dickens qualify. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 05:36, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: PeterS, you may be an expert in history, but your logic does not follow.  The entry does not care ''why'' someone was homeschooled in listing who was homeschooled.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:55, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I think PeterS has a valid point, at least in his first line.  As he points out, the article describes homeschooling as &amp;quot;a movement consisting of 1-2 million students in the United States&amp;quot;.  So for starters, how many on the list were homeschooled ''in the United States''?  Clearly, however, homeschooling is not confined to the U.S., so it's the definition rather than the list that should be changed (as far as my argument goes so far).&lt;br /&gt;
:: I don't agree with him that it's not a movement; I think that's probably an apt term.  But that raises the next problem with the list.  Homeschooling ''as a movement'' is a relatively recent phenomenon, over the last forty years, I would guess.  So anybody on that list who was educated at home more than around forty years ago does not fit the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
:: There's more that I could say, along the lines of PeterS' second paragraph, but perhaps I'll leave it there for the moment.&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:14, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Similar to my comment below, this criticism is overly literal.  But to play that game, &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is the movement, while those who were &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; is a broader category that can go beyond the movement.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:17, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: My immediate response to that, without thinking through it, is that that might make sense, but if it does, at the very least that distinction should be made clear in the article.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:19, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Perhaps the opening part of the article could refer to a general, specific definition of homeschooling. That would clear up some of the conceptual difficulties that become more evident later in the article. '''Then''' you could branch out after that and comment on the &amp;quot;homeschooling movement&amp;quot; in the United States. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:46, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: An addendum to my previous post: I still think my dispute with the Dickens example stands. Just because someone does not receive a formal education at a school, it does not mean they were homeschooled. The facts are these: Dickens was educated as long as was financially possible. When his father was jailed, he was sent to work in a factory, like many financially disadvantaged young people at the time. To my knowledge (and the minutiae of the personal histories of English authors are not my strongest point), there is no evidence that his mother actively homeschooled him. Indeed, all the evidence points to his mother being firmly in favour of him working at a boot-blacking factory ''instead of'' getting an education. If you have evidential proof that this was not the case, feel free to cite it. Once again, if you think my argumentation over this is not valid, then you've got to sort out the definitional problem ASAP. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:58, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've reworded the introduction to:&lt;br /&gt;
* Remove the United States as part of the definition.&lt;br /&gt;
* To define homeschooling as being educated &amp;quot;primarily at home&amp;quot;, rather than &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot;, as the latter could include non-traditional schools.  The existing text later in the article expands on &amp;quot;primarily at home&amp;quot;, to explain the parts that are not at home.&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 06:54, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I've also changed references to homeschooling in the prominent people list to &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;taught at home&amp;quot; (as some entries already were) for all persons whose education preceded the formation of the homeschooling movement.  By the way, the entry for Leonardo doesn't actually say that he was taught at home.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 07:09, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Nobody uses the phrase &amp;quot;educated at home,&amp;quot; Philip.  Have you ever heard anyone use it?  An encyclopedia should use common and easily understood terminology, first and foremost.  &amp;quot;Homeschooled&amp;quot; is the term that is used.  Also, I'm not aware of a category that is &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot; but not homeschooled.  Homeschooling is not dependent on the ''physical location'', but on the approach.  Again, I object to the overly literal and [[materialistic]] approach.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:50, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: Regarding &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot;...&lt;br /&gt;
::* I'm not in the habit of noting down every phrase I hear, so in one sense I couldn't say whether I've ever heard it, but I would think that I ''have'' heard it.&lt;br /&gt;
::* That's apart from this article, which as I said, already used it, the phrase having been included by Dpbsmith ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=16849]), Hsmom ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=151194], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=151212], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=155576], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=165607],[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=167430]), and NonXtianConservative ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=219041]).&lt;br /&gt;
::* Google returns 106,000 hits for &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot;, so it's fairly common.&lt;br /&gt;
::* And even if none of that was the case, isn't Conservapedia proud of inventing [[Conservapedia terms|new terms]]?&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;Homeschooled&amp;quot; is one of a number of terms that are used.  Another is &amp;quot;taught at home&amp;quot;, which was used by none other than one Aschlafly ([http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Homeschooling&amp;amp;diff=next&amp;amp;oldid=218738])!  I've used both those terms to avoid too much repetition.&lt;br /&gt;
:: And of course there is the ''reason'' I made those changes, that if homeschooling is defined (correctly, I believe) to be a movement that started in the 1960s, then anybody educated/taught/tutored at home prior to then cannot be said to be &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  That's not to say that their situation is necessarily quite different, but it does mean that the term itself should not be used of them.&lt;br /&gt;
:: &amp;quot;outside the traditional school system&amp;quot; depends on what is meant by &amp;quot;traditional&amp;quot;.  It could mean schools that allow the students to decide what they learn, for example, or other schools that take a non-traditional approach in any number of ways.  It could include parent-controlled Christian schools, as ''traditionally'' schools have been controlled by governments or religious denominations.  Yes, those examples are all schools, but they're not necessarily ''traditional'' schools.&lt;br /&gt;
:: If &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is not dependent (to a fair extent) on the physical location, then why is it called &amp;quot;''home''schooling&amp;quot;?  And if it's dependent on the approach, why is it not defined in terms of the approach?  In any case, the previous definition was based on physical location, that being &amp;quot;outside ... schools&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:: How is my definition &amp;quot;overly literal&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
:: And how is is &amp;quot;materialistic&amp;quot;?&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 09:53, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: Philip, you say that &amp;quot;Google returns 106,000 hits for 'educated at home,' so it's fairly common.&amp;quot;  But that is only about 5% of the frequency of use of &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;, which generates nearly 2 million hits on Google.  So &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; is not &amp;quot;fairly common&amp;quot; relative to its counterpart.  It is also meaningless to define ''where'' someone is taught rather than focusing on the approach.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: It is overly literal and materialistic to define homeschooling in terms of the physical location (e.g., at home) rather than the approach (e.g., parental control).  Shall we next define [[Christian]]s based on where they pray?  Of course not.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:28, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Googling &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; without the quotes I get 1.6 million hits (which includes variations such as ''homeschooling'' and ''homeschool'').  Googling &amp;quot;homeschooled ''with'' the quotes, I get 1.49 million hits.  So the percentage is actually about 7.  But I wasn't trying to claim that it's the most common use of the term.  I was pointing out that your claim that &amp;quot;Nobody uses the phrase&amp;quot; is incorrect.  If 7% is &amp;quot;nobody&amp;quot;, then I guess nobody gets homeschooled, as the figure there is &amp;quot;only&amp;quot; 2%.  But clearly 2% still amounts to a large figure, and 7% is also quite sufficient to say that the term is commonly used, even if &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; is considerably more common.&lt;br /&gt;
:::: As I said, the previous definition focused on &amp;quot;where&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;the physical location&amp;quot;, except for it being a positive &amp;quot;at home&amp;quot; it was a negative &amp;quot;not at school&amp;quot;.  So my change did not change that the definition was location-based.  However, the new definition that you've now provided is a good one, and I'm reasonably happy with that (it could be tweaked a bit.  For example, it links to the American definition of 'public school' rather than the broader 'school').&lt;br /&gt;
:::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 20:06, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Some thoughts - I use the term &amp;quot;educated at home&amp;quot; quite frequently, as it can include quite a number of educational approaches, only some of which I'd call &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.  In some states in the USA, various terms have very specific meaning.  As an example, in Pennsylvania, students can be &amp;quot;privately tutored&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;receiving homebound instruction&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;enrolled in a cyber-charter school&amp;quot;, or &amp;quot;enrolled in a home education program&amp;quot;.  All four of these kinds of students are educated at home - that is, they get much of their education in their own home.  Some folks call all four kinds &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  However, in two of these cases the students are public school students (educated at taxpayer expense, with school-provided curriculum).   Many people would not consider this &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;, at least in the traditional sense, especially as the parents have little say in the curriculum content, which has to meet state standards.  Students can be &amp;quot;privately tutored&amp;quot; by their parent or a hired tutor - for various reasons, some would consider only the former to be &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.   &amp;quot;Home education programs&amp;quot; create a broad umbrella which can encompas a variety of approaches.  For example, home educated students can enroll in homeschool co-ops - essentially &amp;quot;schools for homeschoolers&amp;quot;, and may actually do little if any of their learning in their own home.  In some other states, no one is, legally speaking, homeschooling - they are all enrolled in private schools, some of which are so small as to have only students from a single family.  With the rise of publicly-run and publicly-funded internet-based schools, people are being more careful about how they use the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.  We do not want the general public to assume that anyone who is homeschooling is doing so at significant taxpayer expense, as that could result in an unacceptable level of government oversight and control, so we must be careful with our terminology.  It's tricky stuff.  &lt;br /&gt;
:::::[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]], I think that the list of arguably homeschooled people stretches the definition of homeschooling beyond my recognition (as a homeschooling mom).  [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] makes a good case that Dickens was not homeschooled (lack of education does not IMHO equal homeschooling, as discussed previously with George Washington Carver).  I also think Joan of Arc was not homeschooled - her mother taught her prayers and household skills, as most mothers have taught their daughters for centuries, but there is no evidence she gave any academic instruction.  But [[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]], it's your sandbox, so your say goes. --[[User:Hsmom|Hsmom]] 20:56, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Read an interesting article ==&lt;br /&gt;
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I generally don't follow &amp;quot;homeschooling politics&amp;quot; but I recently read an interesting article. Apparently CA has recently placed a de facto ban on homeschooling. Does that sound like something appropriate for this article? (It would be nice to have something not in list form.) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 16:20, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:The government of California has said they will not enforce it, but to have it on the books begs a time when the government may not be as friendly and could decide to crack down.  They didn't allow homeschooling per se, but did it's equivalent by saying a special license was necessary to teach.  Since homeschoolers score higher on standardized tests than their public school counterparts, it is especially troubling to see efforts made to curtail it. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 20:59, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Thanks for the info, Learn Together! I didn't read it from a primary source, I read it from someone who regurgitated it for me. They said that that they would require extensive training/licencing to be a homeschool teacher, which would essentially kill the movement. The article I read didn't say that CA wasn't going to enforce the ruling (because that would make for a significantly less interesting article for a libertarian newsletter!) [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 21:35, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== &amp;quot;Nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Can I object to the statement that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled? It is patently ridiculous, even to a supporter of homeschooling. Here's just a few of the many famous mathematicians from the last few centuries who were not homeschooled: Isaac Newton, Leonhard Euler, George Polya, Carl Friedrich Gauss, John Venn, several of the Bernoulli family, Pierre de Fermat and Johannes Kepler. Off the top of my head, August Möbius was homeschooled only to the age of 13, and some mathematicians were born into European aristocracy who would never even think of allowing their children to be taught in a normal education system, which at the time would have been grossly inferior. Less hyperbole, please! [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 21:00, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Fine, let's look at your examples, several of whom would not be described as &amp;quot;great mathematicians&amp;quot;; others in your list who were [[homeschooled]]; and still more who were schooled but achieved despite it.  Spell out the schooling of each of your examples and you'll find that nearly all of them fall in one of the categories I just identified, and hence my reversion.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:54, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: That last category (&amp;quot;were schooled but achieved despite it&amp;quot;) is of people who were ''not'' homeschooled.  Correct?  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:04, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Well, yes, you are literally correct, but figuratively that category reinforces the thesis.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:13, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: How does &amp;quot;people who were educated in a regular shool and did well&amp;quot; (to rephrase it) support the thesis? (The phrase &amp;quot;despite it&amp;quot; presumes what the thesis is trying to demonstrate, so is a circular argument.) [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 22:19, 19 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Right, so let's have a look at the first criterion. In other words, &amp;quot;several of whom would not be described as great mathematicians&amp;quot;. Actually, I don't think that's my job. I think if you want to make a statement claiming that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled, you need to prove it. '''You''' need to identify exactly who you would classify as a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; and name them all: or have you already done that? What are your criteria for great mathematicians? Then '''you''' need to identify what percentage of those were homeschooled. '''Then''' you can assert that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled. Now: &amp;quot;others in your list who were homeschooled&amp;quot;. Again, it's a meaningless statement because you have never defined exactly what constitutes a homeschooled person - how many years they need to have been homeschooled - and when people have asked on this talk page, you haven't answered. Next: &amp;quot;still more who were schooled but achieved despite it&amp;quot;. Hmmm... so you're making the assumption that because they were high achievers but attended school, they must have achieved '''despite''' their education? And you're using that justify the contention that homeschooling is better than a regular education? Which means that those who achieved highly did so despite their education? Which means that homeschooling is better than a regular education? Where does the circular nature of that argument end? Can I reiterate: I think that homeschooling is great if people are prepared to do it, and I think that you personally have done a lot of good things in terms of homeschooling. But I don't think it helps our conservative cause if we make silly hyperbolic statements all over the place in a futile gesture to stick it up to the liberals/atheists. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 00:35, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: PeterS, our list of homeschoolers includes many of the greatest mathematicians.  Please read it.  Your list does not disprove the statement that  nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled.  I invited you to spell out the schooling of those in your list (as I have done for those homeschooled), but so far you've declined to do so.  So your objection does not persuade.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:53, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Andrew, I have read the list. But &amp;quot;many of the greatest mathematicians&amp;quot; is a different statement from &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Many&amp;quot; is completely different from &amp;quot;nearly every&amp;quot;. &amp;quot;Many&amp;quot; is fairly uncontroversial, because it doesn't directly imply proportionality - it could mean a majority, or it could mean a sizeable minority, or it could mean some arbitrary proportion that you specify. &amp;quot;Nearly every&amp;quot; implies a sizeable majority, probably somewhere in the region of 90-95% - I'm being arbitrary here, but &amp;quot;nearly every&amp;quot; would, in the English language, be somewhere close to 100%. Now, until you can tell us what a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; is, and list all those that you classify as great mathematicians, you cannot say that almost 100% of great mathematicians were homeschooled. If a student came to me with an essay saying something like &amp;quot;nearly every person killed in the Reign of Terror was an aristocrat&amp;quot;, I would underline the statement, ask in the page margin for a citation of the number of people killed in the Terror, ask for a citation of the number of aristocrats killed in the Terror, and ask them to justify why that may have been the case (based on a historical interpretation). Your statement does not match any of these rather non-exhaustive criteria, and it'd be interesting if you could address this. On to the second part of your question: citations for my names. It should not be my job to find citations to help to prove or disprove your unproven statement. And I ask that before you try to pick apart my examples and set arbitrary criteria, you address what I've just said in this paragraph and my previous statements. But I'll do this anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Isaac Newton''' - accounts vary, but all acknowledge that he received a formal education in at least one school. According to this source, [http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/rhatch/pages/01-Courses/current-courses/08sr-newton.htm], he was educated at King's School, Grantham. According to this source, [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Newton.html] he was educated at Free Grammar School, Grantham. Despite the inconsistency in the name, we can conclude that whichever school(s) he attended, he did attend school for most of his childhood. This source [http://www.skyscript.co.uk/newton.html] tells us that while he spent years out of school, he was not homeschooled during that time: indeed, it was felt that &amp;quot;he did not need an education&amp;quot;. Without even requiring criteria, I think we can conclude that the development of Calculus is enough to make him a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot;, not to mention these things called the laws of motion...&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Leonhard Euler''' - this source [http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Leonhard%20Euler] tells us that he went to a low quality school, but the fact stands: he attended school during that time, even if he self-taught and received tutoring at the same time. But even if you choose to disagree with my contention, it doesn't change my objections, noted in all my above comments. Anyway, Euler = great mathematician, no contest, even without criteria.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''George Pólya''' - [http://www.sci.uidaho.edu/polya/biography.htm] says it all. Again, criteria are a problem, because you have never specified any, but Pólya is one of the world's foremost modern contributors to mathematical logic and combinatorics through elements such as the Pólya enumeration theorem and his four principles of mathematical proofs/problem solving.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Carl Friedrich Gauss''' - this source [http://www.mathsong.com/cfgauss/Dunnington/1927/] tells us that he was educated from the age of seven. Case closed. That page also details his mathematical achievements very well in areas such as number theory in particular.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''John Venn''' - [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Venn.html]: went straight through Cholmley's and Islington. End of story. As for being a great mathematician... ever used a Venn diagram?&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Bernoulli family''' - it is much more difficult to find evidence for the Bernoulli family - it is a pattern that people would either be taught at home or sent to a local school before moving onto more prestigious pursuits in secondary school or university. Obviously it's difficult to be consistent in researching across a cross-generational family. I'll gladly ignore this one.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Pierre de Fermat''' - he self-taught mathematics [http://www.surveyor.in-berlin.de/himmel/Bios/Fermat-e.htm], but that came once he had already studied jurisprudence at university and become a councillor. This source [http://www.qerhs.k12.nf.ca/projects/physics/fermat.html] tells us that he did indeed receive a primary and secondary education. This source confirms that he was probably schooled at a Franciscan monastery [http://www.qerhs.k12.nf.ca/projects/physics/fermat.html]. And he was great; no matter what criteria you set.&lt;br /&gt;
:::* '''Johannes Kepler''' - this source [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Kepler.html] tells us that although he helped in his grandfather's inn, he attended a local school and then a seminary. Kepler did of course achieve extraordinary things in astronomy, physics and mathematics including things such as positing the Kepler conjecture (which will probably become a theorem).&lt;br /&gt;
:::{{unsigned|PeterS}}&lt;br /&gt;
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:: OK, your list of great mathematicians who were not homeschooled is dwindling fast.  Working backwards, Kepler evidently was educated while helped at his relative's inn, and he isn't considered a great mathematician anyway.  Fermat was self-taught in mathematics.  The Bernouilli family almost certainly handed down their expertise through homeschooling, and you've conceded dropping them.  Venn was not a great mathematician.  &lt;br /&gt;
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:: We're left with only four:  Newton, Euler, Polya, and Gauss.  I'll check them out now.  It may be that a few of them were not homeschooled, which is why the claim is not that every great mathematician was homeschooled, but that nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled.  But I'm curious to investigate the education of these four.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:47, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Newton apparently did not attend school until age 10, making him another homeschooler.  [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Newton.html] --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:51, 20 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::The fact that Newton did not attend school until the age of 10 does not make him a homeschooler.  Indeed the source you cited says nothing about what his education was before Free Grammar School, if he had one.  A homeschooling education seems unlikely, as the source says that Newton's grandfather, whom he was living with, practically ignored Newton, and that Newton hated his mother and step-father.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 23:16, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::: Andrew Schlafly, you claim to be an expert in everything yet you are totally incapable of answering a simple request of another person is only trying to improve your encyclopaedia. I have spent several screenfuls of this discussion page trying to ask you two '''very simple questions''', which shouldn't be too difficult whether the answerer is homeschooled or not. (1) '''What is your definition of a great mathematician?''' and (2) '''What exactly constitutes homeschooling?''' Your page does neither. Under your (highly elusive) criteria, spending a couple of years at home while of primary school age is sufficient to qualify as homeschooling. Under your criteria, receiving private tutoring while simultaneously attending school daily is sufficient to qualify as homeschooling. Under your criteria, a mathematician is great only if you say so, because under your criteria, Johannes Kepler and John Venn cease to become a great mathematician. Schlafly, this encyclopaedia will only live up to its name - Conservapedia - when it becomes an accurate reflection of a conservative viewpoint. At the moment, its Schlaflipedia: if you don't want to answer a reasonable question, you block your ears. That's also why you lock Conservapedia from editing when there aren't sysops around to jump on people who are trying to improve articles. You are driving away conservatives who want to make a difference but can't because Sleep-ly (grab a German dictionary if you don't get the pun) doesn't want his personal authority challenged. I am a conservative on every issue - foreign policy, economic policy, social policy et al - but that won't keep me at Conservapedia. You are harming the good work of real conservatives who deal in facts and proofs. I should note that I don't expect this comment to be here tomorrow; I expect that it will  be &amp;quot;archived&amp;quot; in the rubbish bin, along with my user account. &amp;quot;Godspeed&amp;quot; to anyone who ever tries to object to Schlafly's perverse logic and warped ideas. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 05:41, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: PeterS, your comments are becoming increasingly long-winded, incoherent and insulting.  Get to the point succinctly and politely, and I'll respond to you.  Otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time.  By the way, I don't have a definition for &amp;quot;great mathematician,&amp;quot; nor is one necessary for such a term.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:24, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Then you've just conceded his point.  If you don't define what constitutes a &amp;quot;great mathematician&amp;quot; then you can not define the set of &amp;quot;great mathematicians&amp;quot; therefore you can not legitimately claim that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled&amp;quot; be cause it is completely unquantifiable.  Like-wise, you refuse to define what constitutes &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.  For you, it appears to mean anyone who ever learned anything outside of a traditional public school system education from K-12 and college... but this ignores the fact that such traditional structure has not been commonplace since the dawn of history.  Many of the examples you give are from several hundred years ago when this structure was not in plaace in the manner it is to day, yet you conflate any kind of home learning in that time period with homescholling as it is today... the two are not necessarily equivalent.  You want them to be, in order to push your ideology.  Also, discounting any example given as either &amp;quot;not a great mathematician&amp;quot; or labelling them &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; because they have some minor period of time that they were not traditionally schooled seems a prime example of either conservative deceit or deliberate ignorance.  And, in case you are actually interested in true facts, and a quantifiable definition of great mathematicians... here's at least one list of the 100 greatest per Mathematics Teacher magazine from 1962:  afrodita.rcub.bg.ac.yu/~flora/100.html  You might note that Kepler is among the names listed. [[User:QNA|QNA]] 11:22, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Taking a look at the first 10 names on the list:&lt;br /&gt;
*Newton - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Leibnitz - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Lagrange - self taught&lt;br /&gt;
*Euler - attended schooler and studied under Bernoulli&lt;br /&gt;
*Laplace - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Euclid - unkown, though he did probably attend Plato's Academy&lt;br /&gt;
*Gauss - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Archimedes - his schooling is also unknown&lt;br /&gt;
*Descartes - not homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
*Cardano - homeschooled&lt;br /&gt;
:So 5 of the top 10 were definitely not homeschooled.  One (Cardano) definitely was,  one's (Lagrange's) status depends on how you define homeschooling, one (Euler) had both simultaneously, and two are unknown.  Do you really want to continue the claim that nearly every great mathematician was homeschooled?  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 13:36, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: You don't say, but perhaps your &amp;quot;list&amp;quot; is from the 1962 ranking by &amp;quot;Mathematics Teacher.&amp;quot;  Nearly all the entries are (oddly) prior to the 19th century, and it's likely that most of the referenced individuals were homeschooled.  I've already checked Newton, as explained above, and he did not enter a school under after age 10.  So I don't find anything credible about your statements.  If you want to provide details about the schooling of those to support a claim they were not homeschooled, then we can look at your detail.  Otherwise, your objection is not persuasive.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:18, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::If you really count ''being schooled at home until only about fourth or fifth grade and then speding the rest of his schooling years being taught in formal schools'' as homeschooling (which seems to be a poor definition), then yes, Newton was homeschooled.  However, even in modern times, alegbra isn't even taught that young, so how much math schooling Newton could have received before the age of 10 is questionable.  As for the others: &lt;br /&gt;
::*Leibnitz: &amp;quot;At the age of seven, Leibniz entered the Nicolai School in Leipzig&amp;quot;[http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Leibniz.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Laplace: &amp;quot;Laplace attended a Benedictine priory school in Beaumont-en-Auge, as a day pupil, between the ages of 7 and 16.&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Laplace.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Gauss: &amp;quot;At the age of seven, Carl Friedrich Gauss started elementary school&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Gauss.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::*Descartes: &amp;quot;Descartes was educated at the Jesuit college of La Flèche in Anjou. He entered the college at the age of eight years&amp;quot; [http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Descartes.html] &lt;br /&gt;
:::And while we have been providing sources, you have yet to provide a source showing that &amp;quot;nearly every great mathematician&amp;quot; was homeschooled. [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 15:52, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Our entry has numerous examples of great mathematicians who were homeschooled.  Have you even read it yet???&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: For all the bluster by critics, we are down to only four great mathematicians who may not have been homeschooled:  Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss and Descartes.  But even your description of those four are not persuasive, and raise more questions than they answer.  By age 7 or 8, great mathematicians are often quite a bit along already in their skills.  And what did these four mathematicians do after they entered school?  Laplace, for example, was apparently taught mathematics in a special way by his uncle in connection with the school. [http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0025-5572(194902)2%3A33%3A303%3C1%3AL%3E2.0.CO%3B2-%23] --[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:24, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::First of all, I highly resent the use of the word bluster.  Second of all, you've forgotten Euler, Polya, Kepler, and Venn, mentioned above.  Third, here are more of from the list of the top 100:&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Legendre: Went to college in Paris, before that schooling unstated [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Legendre.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Monge: attended Oragion college before going to Lyons at 16 [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Monge.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*D'Alembert: attended private school, then attended Collège des Quatre Nations [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/D'Alembert.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Fourier: first studied at Pallais's school [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Fourier.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Napier: homeschooled until age of 13 after (interestingly enough) his uncle sent his father a letter: &amp;quot;I pray you, sir, to send your son John to school; over to France or Flanders; for he cannot learn well at home&amp;quot; [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Napier.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Viete: attended school in Fontenay-le-Comte [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Viete.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Maclaurin: his family moved to Dumbarton specifically for the attendence of school [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Maclaurin.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Cavalieri: studied at a Jesuit monestary and the University of Pisa [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Cavalieri.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Wallis: attended school in Ashford and Tenterden [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Wallis.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Tartaglia: attended school from the age of four [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Tartaglia.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Poncet: attended Lycee Imperial [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Victor_Poncelet]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Chasles: attended Lycee Imperial [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Chasles.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Cremona: educated at Ginnasio in Pavia [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Cremona.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Boscovich: attended Ragusinum starting at age 9 [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Boscovich.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Lambert: attended school in Mulhouse [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Lambert.html]&lt;br /&gt;
::::*Barrow: attended Charterhouse and Felstead [http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Biographies/Barrow.html]&lt;br /&gt;
:::::These are just ones whose non-homeschooled education can be confirmed.  This is also only from the top 50 of this one list.  Many of the top 50 not mentioned weren't necessarily homeschooled either.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 18:20, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
Looking back, others and I have listed 24 mathematicians not homeschooled (Barrow, Boscovich, Cavalieri, Chasles, Cremona, D'Alembert, Descartes, Euler, Fourier, Gauss, Kepler, Lambert, Laplace, Legrende, Leibnitz, Maclaurin, Monge, Napier, Polya, Poncet, Tartaglia, Venn, Viete, Wallis).  Your article lists 11 who were homeschooled (Cauchy, Chebyshev, Erdos, Fermat, Galois, Hamilton, Jacobi, Mandelbrot, Pascal, Poincare, Riemann) (though I might have missed one or two) [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 20:04, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Were you unable to provide details about your four mathematicians (Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss and Descartes) as discussed above?  It seems you're now resorting to quantity rather than quality.  I've already debunked several claims among your new list of 24, and at least half of them fail to qualify as &amp;quot;great&amp;quot; mathematicians.  Unless you can back up your claim with respect to the four mentioned above, I'm going to move on confident that the great mathematicians were almost all homeschooled.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:50, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::&amp;quot;By the way, I don't have a definition for &amp;quot;great mathematician,&amp;quot;&amp;quot; are your own words.  So why can't I call them great mathematicians?  I don't have a definition either, but I think all of them are great, and I certainly think a publication entitled &amp;quot;Mathematics Teacher&amp;quot; is more qualified than you to determine who qualifies as great.  Of Leibnitz, Laplace, Gauss, and Descartes, only for Laplace did you provide any evidence against formal education being their primary source of education, while I have sources that outright state that they attended a formal school of some kind.  Also, I looked at your source for Laplace and I can't see beyond the first page, which states merely that Laplace's uncle was on the staff of his school and kindled his interest in mathematics, not that his uncle actually taught him in a special form.  My previous citations for their education still stand.  If you have any real proof that their education was still homeschooling of some sort after they entered a formal school, please enlighten me.  Also, if you have debunked some of my claims, would you be so kind as to show some proof for those as well? [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 21:10, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Sorry, ZTak, I'm not going to do your research for you.  You haven't provided a single mathematician with evidence that he was never homeschooled.  I've provided in this entry countless examples of great mathematicians who were.  I'll take a look at your other three examples, but am confident that nearly all of them were homeschooled also.  A mathematician is unlikely to develop to greatness without the head start, independence, encouragement and flexibility that homeschooling uniquely provides.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:18, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Now you're moving the goalposts.  I have to prove they were '''never''' homeschooled?  That's a universal negative.  I can't ever prove that.  That would be like asking me to prove that none of them were ever abducted by aliens who fed knowledge directly into their brain.  I can't prove that such abudctions never happened.  I can prove, which I did, that their main education was at some sort of formal school.  I proved that for Legendre, Monge, D'Alembert, Fourier, Napier, Viete, Maclaurin, Cavalieri, Wallis, Tartaglia, Poncet, Chasles, Cremona, Boscovich, Lambert, and Barrow.  Finally, you still have yet to prove your statement that Laplace was specially educated by his uncle.  [[User:ZTak|ZTak]] 22:03, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I guess I can qualify too, eh?  I wrote a theorem for [[Synthetic Division]]--which had many, many corollaries--and I was &amp;quot;fake schooled&amp;quot; up to 2nd grade mathematics to substitute for missing the preschool deadline.  (&amp;quot;fake school&amp;quot; is what I called homeschooling at that age). -^_^- [[User:Kektklik|Fuzzy&amp;amp;#124;AFK]] 22:10, 21 March 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Opinions ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This article voices personal opinions more so than fact with a conservative point of view, directly in line with the Conservapedia Commandments. Opinions? I can find examples in the text if you would like. [[User:Adg2011|Adg2011]] 20:55, 1 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Sufiah Yusof ==&lt;br /&gt;
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Homeschooled prodigy Sufiah Yusof, who went to Oxford at 13, has been found working as a prostitute ten years later. Will this mentioned in the article? Doubt it. [http://www.theage.com.au/news/in-depth/the-human-cost-of-trying-to-make-geniuses/2008/04/04/1207249453810.html] [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 21:03, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Parents who send a 13-year-old girl off to a [[liberal]] college should have their heads examined.  Your link supports that decision as the cause of this tragedy.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 21:30, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: The [[University of Oxford]] is a &amp;quot;liberal college&amp;quot;?  I see that it is also &amp;quot;One of the most influential universities in history...&amp;quot;.  At least that's what the Conservapedia article says.  Fancy that!  Pretty good going for a mere liberal college.  --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 22:38, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Yes on both points, and there's no contradiction there.  Hello, Oxford is [[liberal]] today.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:04, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::: Hello.  On what basis do you say that?  --[[User:VincentMC|VincentMC]] 23:07, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Ah, time for [[liberal denial]], I see.  If you can identify a half-dozen [[conservative]] professors at Oxford, then I'd be astonished.  I'm confident you can't.  Meanwhile, observe all the [[atheists]] and [[liberals]] there, and how students like Christopher Hitchens became Trotskyists while at Oxford. [http://www.experiencefestival.com/political_views].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:46, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Schlafly, when you become a qualified psychologist, then perhaps you will be in a position to make your insensitive and blasé judgements about this case. I challenge you to find a single reputable psychologist who will tell you that Sufiah Yusof's present condition is caused not by pushy parenting, &amp;quot;hot house&amp;quot; homeschooling, or excessive media exposure (or a combination of the three) but instead caused by attending an institution which you claim is a hotbed for &amp;quot;liberal deceit&amp;quot;. Or perhaps you'd instead like to play a game of Schlafly word bingo and throw in mentions of [[homosexuality]], [[intelligent design]], [[liberal hypocrisy]], [[liberal hysteria]] and [[liberal myths]] in your next post. [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 19:32, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::: Peter, you're clueless about the dangers of sending a 13-year-old girl off to a [[liberal]] college.  If you think it takes a credentialed psychologist to explain that, then you have a lot to learn.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:52, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::::: Sorry, I can't think what came over me: for a moment, I thought that facts and evidence were actually valued in this place. The issue here isn't that she was sent to a ''liberal'' college at age 13. It is that she was sent to a college '''at all''' at age 13. It is that she was hot-housed (a form of extremely rigorous homeschooling) and driven mercilessly by a pushy and overambitious father. It is that her father also did everything he could to overwhelm her with media attention. You boast on the Homeschooling page about people who went to university at age 13 or 14 and then became great mathematicians or philosophers or whatever. But the simple fact is that large numbers of homeschooled prodigies do '''not''' reach such pinnacles and instead have their lives ruined by the reckless practices of their parents. You're right. It doesn't take a credentialed psychologist to explain this scenario: Sufiah Yusof herself describes her experience at the hands of '''her parents''' (that's right, '''not''' Oxford's oppressive liberal regime) as a living hell and says that she has &amp;quot;enough of 15 years of physical and emotional abuse&amp;quot;.[http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/child-prodigy-working-as-a-prostitute/2008/04/04/1207249460601.html?page=2] Happy now? (I doubt it.) [[User:PeterS|PeterS]] 06:09, 8 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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== Difficulties ==&lt;br /&gt;
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This article looks pretty strange to me, since it includes people who lived centuries ago, such as Leonardo Da Vinci.  But my understanding of the homeschooling movement indicates that it exists only in contrast to public schooling... and widespread public schooling is a much more recent innovation.  In the United States, for example, public schooling began shortly before the twentieth century.&lt;br /&gt;
Certainly many of these individuals belong on the page, but it seems disingenuous to claim that Benjamin Franklin was &amp;quot;homeschooled,&amp;quot; for example, since at that time such was still mostly the norm.  This makes it quite distinct from the modern era, wherein homeschooling is very unusual (speaking statistically, not as a value judgment).&lt;br /&gt;
By the same token, I wouldn't call him &amp;quot;public schooled,&amp;quot; either, naturally.  But this article blurs the line between modern homeschooling (a distinct &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; in opposition to national institutionalized public schools) and the simple sparcity of formal schooling in the centuries before government public schools.  Given the fact that the owner of this site, Andy Schlafly, is a well-known homeschooling advocate, indeed even teaching homeschooling classes on the site, and his personal view is endorsed by most of the sysops on the site, I think this gives the appearance (if not the fact) of trying to deliberately smudge the dividing line between the two eras.  Such an appearance or fact should be corrected.&lt;br /&gt;
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Another criticism might be made in that the list of &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; individuals is very liberal with that assignation.  I would suggest a clarifying sentence at the fore of the list, mentioning what the requirements for the list are... currently they are simply described as being &amp;quot;educated at home,&amp;quot; which is a very broad statement.  It should be clarified that these are individuals who have spent any portion of their youth or young adulthood being educated at home, since many of them spent years in formal education.&lt;br /&gt;
Please consider each of the above points separately on their own merit.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 22:59, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: Your comments, though thoughtful, seem to reject the definition of homeschooling:&lt;br /&gt;
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::Homeschooling is a movement in which students receive education from a parent or guardian, or instructors acting under the direction of a parent or guardian, rather than from certified teachers in a formal school setting like a public school.&lt;br /&gt;
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:Though you implicitly seem to reject this definition, you don't propose an alternative.  Note that this definition applies whenever a formal school setting existed, which goes back at least to [[ancient Greece]], before Christ.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:13, 5 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::As I note, there exists a generally understood distinction in most people's minds between the modern homeschooling &amp;quot;movement,&amp;quot; as it is described on the page, and the previous lack of public schools.  If you request a different definition, then I would suggest something such as &amp;quot;Homeschooling is the modern movement in which students... etc.&amp;quot;, and then the examples of individuals &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; previous to a certain date (1850 or so would seem reasonable, as that was about when public schooling came into being in America to the best of my knowledge) could be moved to a different section.  This new section could have the heading connecting the modern homeschooling movement with the tradition of home schooling which existed prior to the alternative of public schooling.  This would allow all of the names and such to remain on the page, and keep that connection which reflects positively on homeschooling (the clear intent) without being quite so absurd.  Would those changes satisfy you?--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 00:12, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::: I agree with TomMoore, and am very disappointed that Andy has ignored the previous discussion on this page and reverted to terminology that was changed because of these very concerns, and after discussion.  The article also says that &amp;quot;homeschooling began in the 1960s&amp;quot;, and whilst I don't know the exact date, or even the exact decade, I would think that the 1960s would be about right.  So people educated outside schools centuries or even millennia ago cannot properly be called &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::: (Actually, since writing that, I've been done a little research.  &amp;quot;Dr. Raymond S Moore, the inspiration to many homeschoolers of recent generations&amp;quot; started homeschooling in the 1940s.  The book &amp;quot;No More Public School&amp;quot;, published in 1972, is described as a &amp;quot;Pioneering how-to book about homeschooling, from the days when homeschooling had a tenuous legal status and the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; hadn't been coined&amp;quot;.)&lt;br /&gt;
::: If the article is meant to be about the modern movement, then those older examples don't belong here.  If the page is meant to be about people educated outside the school system, then the title and content should be altered to reflect that, and the term &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; should be dropped for those older examples.&lt;br /&gt;
::: It is true that schools have existed as far back as ancient Greece (at least), but that doesn't mean that they have always existed since then, nor in all societies.  For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.  In other words, for much of history, being educated at home (or etc.) was the normal way that people got educated, and was not the exception, and was certainly not called &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 03:58, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::::Is it not the case that homeschooling in the contemporary sense exists in opposition to, or any rate as distinct from, 'compulsory' state education? One can only 'opt out' of a system if that system exists in the first place; and therefore one could say homeschooling o0nly became a valid concept once education of children was made compulsory by the state. Thus in the UK 'homeschooling' would only be a realistic concept after the Education Act of 1871 which decreed that all children should receive elementary education. That is not to say, of course, that children were not educated at home before then; but the notion of 'homeschooling' as a 'political' act or act of resistance against the perceived shortcomings (educational, moral, religious) of the official education system can only date from that point. [[User:Mediaevalist|Mediaevalist]] 07:14, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Homeschooling must be as old as schooling itself.  There's no way around that.  Just as pacifism is as old as war, and adultery is as old as marriage, and theft is as old as private property, and literacy is as old as the Bible.  The modern homeschooling ''movement'' can be traced to the 1960s, just as anti-war ''movements'' can have modern beginnings.  I've changed a phrase in the entry to reflect this.  Thanks. &lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Philip says, &amp;quot;For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.&amp;quot;  I doubt that, as schooling was often done by religions independent of wealth.  I doubt that [[ancient Greece]] had a financial test for admitting students to its fine schools.  But, regardless, I think that is an overly material view of the concept of homeschooling, which refers to a decision made by parents to eschew common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning that they believe is more beneficial to the child.  That type of decision is as old as families and education.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 09:18, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: &amp;quot;Modern&amp;quot; schooling was begun, I believe, by Christian churches.  &amp;quot;Sunday School&amp;quot; was not religious education for children while the adults listened to the sermon, but &amp;quot;secular&amp;quot; education on the only day that the children were not at work in the mines, fields, or factories.  Eventually, this church-sponsored education was taken over by governments, but prior to the churches doing this, there was little if anything in the way of formal education.  Ancient Greece may have been different; I don't know, but I wasn't trying to suggest that schooling started off only for the rich; I actually meant that this likely came ''later'' than Greece, although even in Greece I ''suspect'' that it was not for everyone.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: But more to the point is what Mediaevalist said above, that homeschooling is an 'opting out' of the official education system, and as such ''can't'' exist until there is an official education system.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: Your change to the homeschooling ''movement'' starting in the 1960s doesn't help:  The first line of the article defines homeschooling ''as the movement''.  Previously the article said (in effect), &amp;quot;Homeschooling is a movement... Homeschooling began in the 1960s&amp;quot;  Now, it says (in effect) &amp;quot;Homeschooling is a movement...that began in the 1960s&amp;quot;.  So pre-1960s examples are still not &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:21, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::: Good point about the flaw in the definition.  Homeschooling should not be defined as a movement, and I've deleted that reference.  There is a &amp;quot;homeschooling movement.&amp;quot; Just as a pacifist does not have to belong to an antiwar movement, a homeschooler need not belong to any movement.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::: Homeschooling does not require &amp;quot;opting out&amp;quot; and to limit the definition to that is to relegate it perpetually to the fringe.  Homeschooling does typically entail rejecting a formalized and popularized schooling system, but as already noted such systems have existed at least since [[ancient Greece]].  Surely the ancient [[Hebrews]] and [[Christians]] also had church-based schooling systems.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:56, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: I don't particularly agree with modern homeschooling and all those older examples being lumped in together, but I have to admit that the article is probably more consistent and less objectionable now.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: I guess that the answer to whether or not the ancient Hebrews and Christians had church-based schooling systems depends on what you mean by &amp;quot;schooling&amp;quot;, but I think the answer is essentially &amp;quot;no&amp;quot;, they didn't.  That is, there might well have been ''some'' things that children learnt in church, but as far as I know, there were no formalised schools run by anyone for the most part, for thousands of years.  Almost all education was done directly by parents, and even this was pretty limited, with the result that most could not even read and write.  Sure, no doubt they learnt various life skills, but even this would not have been in any sort of formalised schooling in the home, let along in schools.  It was probably more in the form akin to apprenticeships, that is, children learnt their parent's trade by helping their parents in their work.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 11:26, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::: I appreciate your first paragraph, but must disagree with your second.  I'm sure the ancient [[Hebrews]] had schooling just as the [[ancient Greeks]] did, and probably many other ancient civilizations did also.  How else could Pharisees and other members of the priestly class be trained?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::::: There is a modern (and [[liberal]]) tendency to look down on our ancient ancestors.  All indications, however, are that they were ''smarter'' than people today.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 12:54, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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(Unindented)&lt;br /&gt;
This is a minor improvement, Mr. Schlafly, but I still think the problem exists.  Let me address your replies.&lt;br /&gt;
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''Homeschooling must be as old as schooling itself.  There's no way around that.  Just as pacifism is as old as war, and adultery is as old as marriage, and theft is as old as private property, and literacy is as old as the Bible.  The modern homeschooling ''movement'' can be traced to the 1960s, just as anti-war ''movements'' can have modern beginnings.  I've changed a phrase in the entry to reflect this.  Thanks.''&lt;br /&gt;
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That is not necessarily true.  I would argue that homeschooling as a concept, as it is understood by the vast majority of people, would be construed as the deliberate choice to teach a child at home as specifically opposed to public schooling.  This latter part of the definition is the one missing from this article's approach to the matter, since most people (as indicated here) disagree with the idea that anyone in history taught at home was &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; in the sense in which the idea is understood today.  I think this is the real substantive point, in fact, behind this disagreement.  You should take note, I think, of that fact that both I (as liberal as they come) and PJR (as conservative as they come, and your most intelligent sysop) are neither of us opposed to homeschooling, and yet we feel that this article is misleadingly favorable to the practice, whereas you (a strong advocate) feel it is not.  Perhaps you might want to step back from this one, and a few other outside opinions on the matter?&lt;br /&gt;
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: Tom, you overrely on your perceptions of what others think (see point 11 in [[liberal style]]).  Homeschooling is not defined in terms of [[public school]].  The view of homeschoolers towards public school is varied, and public schools themselves have changed throughout history and are different in different locations today.  Homeschooling is a parental approach to child-rearing that would exist regardless of the form taken by public schools.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::I assume from your aspersion that you are declining to take a step back from this, despite the fact that you are extraordinarily partisan to one side in this discussion?  That is somewhat disappointing.&lt;br /&gt;
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::It seems to me that it is only reasonable to rely on &amp;quot;perceptions of what others think&amp;quot; when it comes to interpreting the meaning of words.  Words mean only what they are agreed-upon to mean; this is why meanings shift over time in a sometimes-dramatic manner (such as &amp;quot;geek&amp;quot;).  &amp;quot;Homeschooling&amp;quot; to you seems to mean &amp;quot;any alternative schooling by non-certified individuals at home.&amp;quot;  That is a very reasonable interpretation, and I am not saying it is ''wrong.'' I am just saying that the vast majority of people specifically identify homeschooling with the more modern &amp;quot;movement&amp;quot; (as it was put previously), not with your broader definition, and that should be taken into account.  Or, if you want to change the way people think about it, you should specifically contradict the colloquial definition and state more explicitly the difference between the customary understanding and your usage.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::: Tom, you're not even quoting me correctly and still don't seem to understand the essence of homeschooling.  Please expand your horizons and get to know some homeschooling families, and read about those who have homeschooled in history.  Then we can chat again.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:54, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I thought I was quoting you adequately, and apologize if there was some error in the above quote (&amp;quot;perceptions of what others think&amp;quot;).  It was copy-and-pasted from your own words, though.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::If the definition of homeschooling I give above is also inaccurate, that is possible, but it is not a quote, it was an attempt to sum up for use in our dialog.  Please substitute your whole definition above, if that helps.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::I am not sure what you mean about &amp;quot;expanding my horizons;&amp;quot; I was good friends with an enormous family that homeschooled all their children and then sent them to the University of Stuebenville.  They were about as devout a set of devotees to homeschooling as can be imagined.  I know them and their views, as well as your own, quite well.  That's why I opened this conversation, to address a gross shortcoming in the article.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::The &amp;quot;homeschooled in history&amp;quot; item is the crux of the issue here, and so I strongly urge you not to dismiss me as you have.  My concerns are stated clearly and substantively several times: I feel that the article blurs the divide between the commonly-held perspective of what &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; is, and a historical although perhaps technically accurate analogue, and that this blurring is encyclopedic.  It is easy to brush me aside with personal remarks about how I need to &amp;quot;expand my horizons,&amp;quot; but clearly less easy to address my concerns.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 20:03, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::: Tom, I'm not going to spend all night discussing this with you, and your account will be blocked if you just talk here.  You misquoted the definition of homeschooling and seem blinded by your contact with an unusual single homeschooling family.  If you continue to think that people today are very different from people hundreds of years ago, and homeschool for very different reasons, you're wrong.  Meet more homeschoolers and read more history; you can do both on this site.  Then let's chat further.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:11, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I have made substantive edits tonight, such as to [[Alice and Wonderland]], [[Beowulf]], and [[Mind/body]], so I am not worried about being blocked for &amp;quot;just talk[ing] here,&amp;quot; since I am not doing so.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I am sorry if it appears as though I misquoted the definition.  As I said scrupulously above, you may substitute the whole of your definition if you would like, since I was simply quoting it as I referred to it, rather than suggesting it as some sort of change.&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::Please, do not continue to speculate as to my personal knowledge of homeschooling.  That is not the ''only'' homeschooling family I know, I was mentioning them only to let you know that your assertion that I was not familiar with any was entirely wrong.  I am an Eagle Scout, and many of those in my troop were homeschooled.  I assure you, I am fully familiar with the concepts and people involved, and it doesn't change my considered opinion of the article at all.  How would it, after all?&lt;br /&gt;
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::::::I really am only trying to get a firm conclusion on the matter to which I have referred you: the discrepancy between your definition of homeschooling, which includes all such schooling throughout history, and the common understanding which generally is understood as referring to the modern movement.  Please do not block me by way of avoiding this matter, I am quite serious and think I have presented a very compelling case.  If you personally do not have time (since you say you don't want to spend all night on it), you have numerous other sysops.  Ordinarily, of course, I would just make the edits myself, but it is pretty clear that on topics like this no one is allowed to edit anything that might be disagreed with, without checking with an authority figure first.  Perhaps one of the other active sysops - Conservative, Croicite, Ed Poor, or the like - might also weigh in, since Phillip J Rayment concurred with me earlier along with another user?--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 20:32, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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''Philip says, &amp;quot;For much of history, there were no schools, or what ones there were, were only for the very rich.&amp;quot;  I doubt that, as schooling was often done by religions independent of wealth.  I doubt that [[ancient Greece]] had a financial test for admitting students to its fine schools.  But, regardless, I think that is an overly material view of the concept of homeschooling, which refers to a decision made by parents to eschew common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning that they believe is more beneficial to the child.  That type of decision is as old as families and education.''&lt;br /&gt;
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But that type of decision is not being described in the article.  If you want to broaden it to include that, I think it would be appropriate to do so.  The key would be specificity, then; the article should be changed to reflect that this is a list of people who have &amp;quot;eschew[ed] common or customary education in favor of an alternative form of learning&amp;quot;, very different from what most people think when they read the article currently (which presents the matter as synonymous with modern homeschooling).&lt;br /&gt;
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: Modern homeschoolers are no different from ancient ones in rejecting formal schools.  We define the term homeschooling and I doubt many would argue with it.  The people listed satisfy that definition.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::The people do satisfy the definition, but I disagree that many would not argue with the blurring between modern homeschooling and historical &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; that is engaged in.  At the very least, your change in the customary usage should be acknowledged.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consider, for example, the fact that a large proportion of wealthy children were &amp;quot;homeschooled&amp;quot; in Europe for centuries, in the sense that they were tutored in their home by professionals.  This was the norm for the wealthy, yet your definition includes such as being &amp;quot;homeschooled,&amp;quot; contradictory to the common perception of the matter.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 15:43, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: No, the definition is clear that homeschooling rejects the approach of &amp;quot;certified&amp;quot; teachers (or its equivalent).  Wealthy children in Europe who were schooled in a formal setting by certified teachers (or its equivalent) should not be included; those taught by their parents, relatives, or non-certified teachers (or its equivalent) should be included.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:23, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::I agree, the definition is clear, but it is only natural to assume that when one is speaking of &amp;quot;homeschooling&amp;quot; that one is speaking of what most people know of with the concept, as explained above.  At the very least, explicate further.  Otherwise at least the appearance of an attempt to deceive exists, even if that is not the case.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::And again, I would urge you to step back from this and let other sysops handle it; it's only appropriate.--[[User:TomMoore|TomMoore]] 17:45, 6 April 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Pornography ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm deleting the reference to homeschooling being remedy for pornogrpahy addiction.  I read a study earlier this month which showed that there was actually a higher chance of a child becoming involved in pornography and other unsavoury internet based activities if home schooled.  Of course the study applied to equally supervised children, which is, of course, rarely the case in homeschooling.  Still rather than promote complacancy and information which is empirically wrong I felt the need to delete the reference.  I can find the name of the study if anyone needs it, but as far as I know there is no digital reference.  {{unsigned|ObamaSharma}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== To the &amp;quot;Disadvantages of Homeschooling&amp;quot; ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I think one of the major disadvantages that is not mentioned in the article (though it is generally touched on) involves a certain kind of social interaction. The article, as it is right now, implies that the social development that homeschooling can stunt is more or less limited to making friends, having conversations, etc. (on top of peer pressure, bullying, intimidation, etc. as mentioned). I feel it is important to include '''Tolerance''', '''Working together in spite of differences''', and '''Compromise to accomplish like goals'''. I think it goes without saying that we all have had to work very closely with people we've disagreed with on almost everything, and elitism (which I never thought to be a characteristic of homeschooling until I came to Conservapedia) can stall progress. I think mentioning parents enrolling their kids in social organizations can satisfy compromise to accomplish like goals, but I question how much the kids would be exposed to other cultures and races, that would develop tolerance, since these organizations often have many class and moral characteristics in common. I know many of the conservative sysops on this page &amp;quot;Don't believe in tolerance when it compromises truth&amp;quot; but I think we can still agree that different races, classes, and faiths can still produce good people that certainly don't deserve being inferior to the stereotypical american WASP. Please keep in mind that I'm not talking about anything other than the physical world, so please take any arguments of what Jesus said or what will happen to their souls if they don't accept Him elsewhere. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 17:17, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:If public schools were about these things, then I would agree.  Unfortunately what you have is positions being forced upon children in the name of 'tolerance'.  As long as you agree with them then you're fine.  If you don't -- look out.  Homeschooling is about allowing children to avoid having a value system pushed upon them from a &amp;quot;community&amp;quot; that has decided it already knows what is right and will tell you to accept the same -- even against your own family. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:20, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::That's a good point, and I can concede to it. Could not the argument be made that the value system that the family lives by (which could include racist, elitism, exclusivity, among other things) be more aggressively pushed onto the subordinate child? I find that I'm a little uncomfortable with people who were raised with limited exposure to different ideas and cultures, but I am no expert on the subject, as I'm sure is apparent, which is why I'm speaking here instead of trying to edit the page. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 17:17, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::: Anything can be misused, and certainly homeschooling ''can'' have these problems if it is not done properly, but you seem to be seeing government schools through rose-coloured glasses.  When I was in primary school, there was some racism there (although I didn't understand what it was at the time), but I remember none of that from Sunday School and church.  Many homeschooling families are Christians, and my point is that they can get many of these social interactions via church and church-related activities, and that's likely to be a better environment for them than a government school environment that often has undesirable values.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 23:11, 17 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::Perhaps I'm simply recalling my own experiences, which were better than most since I attended one of the better elementary schools in my county before finishing elementary and middle school in the fundamental system, and my high school was one of the better schools in the county as well. I suppose it all should be taken on a case by case basis, and my problem then is with the elitism (and in some cases blatant discrimination against public schools) exhibited around Conservapedia instead of having any problems with homeschooling. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 11:46, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Capolavoro046, I read as far as your absurd accusation of &amp;quot;elitism&amp;quot; above.  There is nothing about homeschooling or this site that is &amp;quot;elitist&amp;quot; and I suspect that ideology is clouding your opinions here.  Maybe you did have a good experience in [[public school]] at some time in the past, but without more information it is impossible to assess that.  No one is claiming that every student is ruined by public school, but public school does deprive its students of classroom prayer.  As a teacher, I can assure you that such deprivation does have an adverse effect.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:06, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Considering that one of this site's very strong focal points is trying to influence homeschooling, I would say that my &amp;quot;accusations&amp;quot; (though I would describe them as observations) of some people having an elitist view are not absurd at all. For example, the entire list of [[professor values]] demonstrates the elitist view, as its sole purpose is propaganda against teachers. Do not be so quick to apply a label to everyone that falls into a classification. I think they have a word for that... what is it? Oh yes, stereotyping. To address the depravity of prayer, I disagree passionately with you. Every year in school, we as students were offered a &amp;quot;moment of silence&amp;quot; following the pledge of allegiance (which did not ignore &amp;quot;Under [[God]]&amp;quot;) for prayer, among other things. I feel that you have a very closed-minded view of things, and coming from a SysOp from a site that works so fervently against the media, I feel you use media coverage of incidences in public schools as a crutch, and choose not to look at things on a case by case basis because it could possibly hurt your arguments. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 23:06, 18 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Oh, and as far as a direct example of elitism on this site: The caption under the photo about the fight that went up on YouTube reads, &amp;quot;A fight typical of [[public school]] students.&amp;quot; I wish I knew you, Ashclafay, so I could ask you to look me in the eye and say that isn't an elitist statement. --[[User:Capolavoro046|Capolavoro046]] 15:26, 19 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Capolavoro046, I'll look you in the eye and ask you to be concise.  I didn't read all your comments above.  Surely you can make your point well in a few short sentences.  Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:07, 20 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You know, having an outspoken proponent of homeschooling such as yourself respond to a reasoned objection with &amp;quot;Too long; didn't read.&amp;quot; would not exactly fill me with confidence about you teaching my hypothetical children. --[[User:Gulik|Gulik]] 17:42, 23 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::I've been accused of wordiness many times; but I can also be concise. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 19:53, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: My addition is what happens when the parents are not effective teachers? I have no problem with homeschooling, and believe that both homeschooling and public school have their advantages and disadvantages, but I do believe that while teachers at public school are forced to be held to a standard (not that they always meet it, and not always are the standards enforced, but generally) whereas homeschooling is not always as effective as this article would have you believe. Looking at the pros and cons of every issue is a good thing, and maybe some credibility would be gained by this article by adding some of the potential disadvantages. -- [[User:Aaronp|Aaronp]] 23:19, 29 May 2008 PST&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Jordin Sparks ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Jordin Sparks won the American Idol contest one year, which is good and fun for her.  I wish her the best.  But does that media award place her as a &amp;quot;prominent American&amp;quot; in the league of the others on the list?  I don't think so, and think she should remain a footnote on the music issue and not in the main list.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:07, 20 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I added her because we have so few examples of homeschoolers born in the late 20th century, and thus homeschooled during the modern homeschooling movement.  Such people are likely to be less prominent, simply because they are younger.  I have some thoughts on how to manage this, but I must do our schooling here at home before spending time editing this morning.  {{unsigned|Hsmom}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: If there is a goal of having homeschoolers born in the late 20th century, then the math prodigies would be better picks.  But I don't see what is so special about the late 20th century.  Homeschooling now is not that different from 100 years ago.  Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:27, 23 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==This has been removed==&lt;br /&gt;
Completely =)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Diet==&lt;br /&gt;
Parents whose children attend public schools can't constantly monitor what is served at the schools. Diet is worse in public schools because the &amp;quot;junk&amp;quot; is readily available and rather inexpensive too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A trial experiment is in order. Stock a homeschooler's fridge with a variety of &amp;quot;health&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;junk&amp;quot; foods and leave them to their studying/eating. I think you can view one example... 5 cans of w*****d c***m disappear within a week.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, &amp;quot;appears&amp;quot; isn't fact. +_+ &amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;always tired&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt; [[User:Kektklik|Kektk]] 16:18, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You make good points.  But whatever the reason, the difference is not likely to change.  And parents don't usually put greasy french fries in the fridge.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:44, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: What is preventing the parents from sending the child to school with a healthy lunch instead? The related question is are cuts to school lunch programs having a negative impact on the options for the school for providing healthy food (fast food style is less expensive than getting good produce). Ketchup is not a vegetable. --[[User:Rutm|Rutm]] 20:25, 29 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
I don't know if this is a difference between Australia and America or between now and when I went to school, but when I was in primary school (years 0 to 6), the school didn't serve ''any'' food, and we either brought our own or (rarely in my case) bought it from the milk bar over the road.  Admittedly there was a canteen in high school (years 7 to 12), but again, I rarely used it, instead bringing my lunch from home.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I can quite accept that the diet of homeschoolers is better than in government schools (although it should have a reference), but how much of this is because the homeschooling parent can &amp;quot;constantly monitor&amp;quot; what their children eat, and how much is because the homeschooling parent cares more than some (not all) parents of government school students, which is likely a factor in why they are homeschooling in the first place?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:05, 31 May 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Homeschooling. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just out of curiosity, why are so many people listed as being homeschooled, when the explanation then goes on to say that they joined school at age 10 or 9 or whatever. Surely that's just a mix of both, and so a little irrelevant?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: I don't think where one learns to read, write and do arithmetic is &amp;quot;a little irrelevant.&amp;quot;  Ask the millions of illiterate people, or the people who help them, if their lack of learning is &amp;quot;irrelevant&amp;quot;.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:14, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Ahh but reading, writing, and arithmetic are just tools. They do not form any abstract thought. So, these peope listed who learned the basics at home before attending institutionalized education systems, if you think they are so wonderful, you can't cite their very limited homeschooling as the reason.[[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 19:03, 2 September 2008 (EDT) (this was deleted before... please don't delete it again, it doesn't read like my usual fiery stuff, lol...)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::: I don't agree with your downplaying the significance of reading, writing and arithmetic.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 19:42, 2 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I agree with Aschlafly. Reading, writing and arithmetic are the backbone of an education. I look forward to homeschooling my own children one day, at least until their teenage years, so I can teach them one other important thing missing in government run schools - values. [[User:ClarkeD|ClarkeD]] 19:52, 2 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::::Nowhere did I downplay the signifigance of the &amp;quot;three R's.&amp;quot; The point I was making, is that they form the foundation for advanced knowledge, but do not in and of themselves create the values that some people are attributing to homeschooling. They are neutral things, and have nothing to do with anything liberal or conservative. Mr. Schlafly's point was that these children who went to institutionalized school systems after 9 or 10 still learned their basics at home, and that somehow was responsible for their prominence. But I beg to differ. What you've learned by 9 or 10 years old, I don't feel is the deciding factor. I have no issue with Mr. Schlafly defending homeschooling. He's chosen it as his cause, and whether I personally agree or not the fact remains that at least he is motivated by the desire to educate children. We ca debate his methods all day and night but the decision to brighten a child's mind, in itself is never a bad decision at all. But I digress... I just wanted to show that he may not have chosen the best battleground for defending homeschooling with THIS PARTICULAR facet of homeschooling (go back up to the start of this specific topic in case my ramblings have made you forget, lol...).[[User:Jros83|Jros83]] 08:03, 3 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Other Factors Contributing to Homeschool Success ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Without disputing the achievements of homeschooled students, I would like to see a more detailed examination of related factors which likely contribute to this achievement.  For instance: homeschooled students are almost certainly going to benefit from having a full-time, stay-at-home parent, as this is essentially a prerequisite to proper homeschooling.  Surely full-time parenting carries substantial benefits in and of itself; it has been my experience that students who come from a home environment with a stay-at-home parent tend to be more disciplined, more courteous, and typically more academically advanced than those who do not.  Additionally, by the same logic, homeschooled students are quite likely to come from a stable two-parent household; it seems very unlikely that a single parent would be able to both make ends meet and properly homeschool.  The benefits of a two-parent household are, if anything, more pronounced than the benefits of full-time parenting; of the students who have failed my class in the past several years, better than half came from single parent homes.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Would this article be an appropriate place for such an examination, or should it be placed in a related article?  --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 12:14, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: You make good [[conservative]] points, but they are more appropriate for a different entry.  [[Homeschooling]] produces achievement and behavior that cannot be found among [[public school]] kids from wealthy, two-parent homes.  Many of the [[teen mass murderers]] were [[public school]] kids from &amp;quot;ideal&amp;quot;, privileged families, for example.  Virtually all the extraordinary geniuses and super-achievers were [[homeschooled]], but not all were from &amp;quot;ideal&amp;quot; families.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 20:18, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks for the response.  I'll work on a new article to cover the issue.  --[[User:Benp|Benp]] 20:28, 30 June 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tutors ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most of the content on this subject seems to be from the viewpoint of the pupil or parent. Have you any advice for potential tutors? -[[User:CraigW|CraigW]] 09:22, 28 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Atheist Homeschooler. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi. I am a Homeschooler.  Been one since second grade.  &lt;br /&gt;
Starting college next year. I'm also an atheist.  &lt;br /&gt;
I just wanted to let you guys know that not all atheists like the public schools.  &lt;br /&gt;
They teach all about Kwanzaa and Hanukkah, but we never learned what Christmas was about.  (Incidentally, we also never learned that there are lots of people out there who don't believe in a god at all.)  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So I can see why many Christians get mad at the PS system.  &lt;br /&gt;
I read the story about the kid who got an &amp;quot;F&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
in art for writing a bible verse on his drawing.  That is unfair.  &lt;br /&gt;
But most atheists I know aren't like that.  &lt;br /&gt;
In fact, my whole Home school group in Lynchburg is made up of atheists or agnostics. &lt;br /&gt;
Most of us don't see anything wrong with classroom prayer, either.  &lt;br /&gt;
As long as the child who's praying makes up his own mind to pray &lt;br /&gt;
(without being forced to by a teacher), and it doesn't disturb the rest of the class, &lt;br /&gt;
who cares if they pray?  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So please, don't think that all atheists are evil, &lt;br /&gt;
oppressive overlords of education.  &lt;br /&gt;
It's just a handful of Liberals in charge of the school board &lt;br /&gt;
who are way too worried that some minority is going to get &lt;br /&gt;
their feelings hurt, and not worried enough about educating young Americans. &lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:PatV|PatV]] 10:12, 11 November 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tim Tebow ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not sure if he's as notable as the one's listed, but Tim Tebow&amp;amp;mdash;as I learned last night during the BCS Championship&amp;amp;mdash;was homeschooled but allowed to play football for a public school due to Florida law.  [[User:JLauttamus|Jeffrey W. Lauttamus]][[User_talk:JLauttamus|&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;Discussion&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;]] 14:46, 9 January 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==United Nations  Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC)==&lt;br /&gt;
I added, in part, &amp;quot;An example of such possible restriction is seen in the United States, in which a New Hampshire Court ordered a thriving 10 year old Christian homeschooled girl to attend public school, solely in order to expose her to &amp;quot;different points of view at a time in her life when she must begin to critically evaluate multiple systems of belief and behavior.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;ttp://onenewsnow.com/Education/Default.aspx?id=659638&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The [[Fairness doctrine]] as it is designed to work. The girl offended the counselor by witnessing to him/her, and was disturbed by his refusal. If she expressed a different liberal &amp;quot;ideologies&amp;quot; and found resistance, i think it would be the counselor would undergo &amp;quot;sensitivity training.   &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consistent with the courts reasoning, all children who are raised in secular environments (and are basically protected from Christian practices such as prayer and Bible reading in school under State-sponsored secularism), should be compelled to go to a Christian school to be exposed to that &amp;quot;POV&amp;quot;. [[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 17:09, 30 August 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Excellent point.  Very well put!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:31, 30 August 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== There is a serious issue here that Conservapedia is failing to acknowledge ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In my personal geographic location, the vast majority of homeschoolers are educated by the [[public school]] system, either through a website known as Florida Virtual School, which is operated by the state government under the [[Florida Department of Education]], or through a program known as &amp;quot;homebound&amp;quot; where the local school district sends a tuitor to the homeschooled students' homes and use the same liberal textbooks used in public school facilities. There are homeschooled students that are ''not'' associated with the public school system as well, but changing the setting to students' homes opposed to &amp;quot;brick and mortar institutions&amp;quot; does not combat atheist and liberal indoctrination in itself. I would note this on the article myself, but I figured it would be best to bring it to the talk page first to discuss. Also note that I personally have nothing against homeschooling, but it's simply not a &amp;quot;cure all.&amp;quot; [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 16:34, 20 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:You're absolutely right, and please feel free to make appropriate edits to this (or any other) entry.  That said, this is another example of how the exceptions do not prove the rule.  The correlation is still very high being homeschooling and open-mindedness or [[faith]], even with the problem you describe.  Students are better off in a virtual school than a bricks-and-mortar school, and most homeschooled students nationwide reject the virtual school curricula anyway.  So it's a bit like saying that not all non-smokers are healthy.  True, but the non-smokers are better off than the smokers, on average.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:22, 20 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
::Absolutely; I never intended to be any kind of an &amp;quot;exception to any rule,&amp;quot; but rather to point out a very important point. In my opinion, liberal bias is a terrible problem in all settings, not just [[public schools]], [[private schools]], or [[homeschooling]]. [[User:DMorris|DMorris]] 16:26, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Irrelevant information ==&lt;br /&gt;
There's a couple of bits of information which seem totally irrelevant:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- The most successful mathematician in contests in history, Reid Barton, was homeschooled.[2]'' - One example out of a bunch of mathematicians isn't really evidence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- The top college football player and the first to win the Heisman Trophy as a sophomore, Tim Tebow, was homeschooled until college.[3]'' - Doesn't have anything to do with homeschooling since the football skills he learned weren't learned by being homeschooled.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''- A Wimbledon tennis star, Melanie Oudin, chose homeschooling beginning in 7th grade:'' - Also doesn't have anything to do with homeschool.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'm all for homeschooling, I was homeschooled myself, and several of my friends were, but this still seems irrelavent to the concept of homeschooling, and it shouldn't be included in the first paragraph of the text. Maybe later, as examples of people who were homeschooled but not like it's used right now, like a reason be homeschooled.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:JDWpianist&amp;diff=761022</id>
		<title>User talk:JDWpianist</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:JDWpianist&amp;diff=761022"/>
		<updated>2010-03-10T10:30:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: /* Lost page */&lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;{{Welcome}} [[User:GFasten|GFasten]] 17:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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[[File:Usa new year 2010.jpg|240px]]&lt;br /&gt;
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--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 00:17, 31 December 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
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Hi, welcome to CP, I'd reccomend writing something on your userpage in order to give you a blue name! [[User:GFasten|GFasten]] 18:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Thanks for the tip. There's something preliminary there now. I hope to add more later. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 18:29, 16 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Welcome to Conservapedia! --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 09:15, 17 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: What are the images you need? You may use also [[Conservapedia:Image upload requests]]. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 16:09, 17 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks for the tip, and a belated thanks for the welcome! I happen to have a lot of musical examples for basic music theory, which I created on Sibelius notation software while I was a Teaching Assistant. I'll use the image upload request.[[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 17:35, 17 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== And now? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Vienna]], thanks for the suggestion. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 23:40, 8 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:The new gallery looks great! And that's definitely the Stephansdom I know and love -- though the renovation on the tower finished very recently and it's looking even better now. You know, for Maundy Thursday, they pealed the bells at 7 p.m., it's a haunting, ancient sound.&lt;br /&gt;
:I was inspired by your additions to flesh out the article a lot more. Hope you enjoy it. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 17:51, 9 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Thanks again and [[Godspeed]]. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 20:10, 18 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Conservapedia:Featured articles  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any proposal for new articles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 20:01, 22 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Thank you for your reply. We have material for a month; may be you will have then finished some articles to include. [[Godspeed]].    --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 15:04, 24 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[[Clarinet]]==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Who first called it a 'licorice stick'? And what is the role of the clarinet in the [[big bands]] of the [[Big Band Era]]? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 17:24, 25 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think the &amp;quot;licorice stick&amp;quot; epithet came around just as big bands were becoming popular, in the '30s, though it's not clear if it can be traced to any one person. The clarinet was a big deal much earlier in New Orleans Jazz, where it played a mostly [[obbligato]] role (see also the page on [[heterophony]]). This role kind of morphed over into Big Band Jazz, where as a solo instrument it played lots of decoration over the main melody. The great soloists like [[Benny Goodman]] of course had a big part in shaping that. Later into the 40's, Ellington and Count Basie wrote some pieces with whole clarinet ensembles instead of saxophones, which gave it a special moody character.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope that helps. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 17:34, 25 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes. Next question: What do you call the kind of [[broken chord]] which is indicated by a wavy line to the left of the notes? And how do you distinguish that from the typical arpeggio which is written out in, say, eighth notes (or as Bach did with the Well-Tempered Clavier Prelude #1, sixteenth notes)? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:20, 25 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::They're actually both called [[arpeggio]]s technically, but the wavy line is usually just called a roll (or rolled chord). Practically there aren't many situations where the two usages can be confused. I personally call an arpeggio with a distinct rhythm (like the Bach) a broken chord. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 18:28, 25 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Nozze di Figaro Anonymous watercolour. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 19:36, 22 December 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Morality and ethics==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Can you help me distinguish between [[morality]] and [[ethics]]? I mean, not me personally ... let's write some articles together. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:46, 20 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(replying here, as your talk page is locked) I'd  be happy to do what I can, for what a musician's opinion is worth. I've moved our discussion around a little, since it was traversing many topics unrlated to Mulan. The relevant part is on [[Talk:Occult]], and the whole thing, including my reply, is now on [[Talk:Ethics]]. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]]  09:19, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[[Anthropogenic global warming theory]]==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, JDW. I have a question about something you said last month:&lt;br /&gt;
* too much polar ice will melt and raise the ocean levels&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Were you referring just to [[sea ice]], i.e., floating on the ocean - or to all ice at pole(s) including that on land? Recall that when an iceberg melts it has hardly any effect on sea level. One kilogram of ice displaces one liter of fresh water, and just about the same amount of salt water. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:32, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:That comment was a response to a picture that Jpatt uploaded, which showed that this year's temperatures for most of the globe were colder than the average of the previous 8 years. The one surprising exception was the polar ice caps, whose temperatures were clearly warmer this year than the average.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:So yes, the segment you just quoted was my understanding of the typical global warming argument, which seems to say that higher temperatures at the poles means a faster increase in sea levels. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding their position, but what I always hear from climatologists in the press is that polar temperatures are their main worry. Maybe you're right -- and I certainly hope that you are -- that polar ice melting would have little effect on sea level. I'm not qualified to judge the facts, but I do attempt to understand both sides, so as not to be duped by propaganda and misinformation. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 13:02, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You mean like Phil Jones admitting to the [[BBC]] that there hasn't really  been any &amp;quot;[[global warming]]&amp;quot; whatsoever in the past 15 years? [http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/15/global-warming-insignificant-years-admits-uks-climate-scientist/] That kind of being duped?  Or the kind of misinformation like the southern pole rapidly losing ice, but that studies show is rapidly gaining ice in most areas other than the Ross shelf?  --&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;/Admin&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:57, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, TK, go easy on my fellow musician! --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:59, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I will be certain not to confuse other users with the facts, Professor Poor! But I do enjoy music of all kinds!  ;-) --&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;/Admin&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 16:02, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks for the link, TK, but to be fair one should compare that article with Jones' [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511670.stm original BBC interview], and decide for themselves which is more convincing.  But I didn't come here to debate climate change, merely to answer EdPoor's question about what I meant on a talk page last month.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::If you're as interested in music as I am writing musical articles, keep your eyes peeled for a couple of new ones in the coming weeks - I'm studying for oral exams, and plan to upload the results of my recent reading for the edification of CP's target audience. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 07:53, 17 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannheim rocket ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That made my day.  When I saw your reference to the &amp;quot;Mannheim rocket&amp;quot; this afternoon, I wondered what it could possibly be.  I knew that Mozart admired the Mannheim orchestra, and in particular their use of clarinets.  Then you put up the example.  The G minor symphony!!  '''That''' was an example of the Mannheim rocket!  Awesome.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Best wishes on Chopin's birthday.  (Though I have to admit he's not among my favorite composers.  I'm still on a high from January 27th.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:SamHB|SamHB]] 00:00, 2 March 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for the message. It's nice to know that other users are learning from my contributions! You're right, these concepts need musical examples in order to make sense, but once you know what they are, you see them all over the place in Mozart and Beethoven. I'll be adding a couple more examples in the next day or so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I'm more a fan of Viennese classics myself, but as a pianist have a special relationship with Chopin. You ought to give some of his more sophisticated works a listen though, like the F-Minor Fantasy or the Ballades. The Fantasie-Polonaise is also great. I find that people who love Mozart usually come around to have an appreciation for Chopin as well, as they're similar in more ways than it seems at first. At any rate, yesterday was an important milestone, definitely deserving of a more fleshed-out article here than there was before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks again for the encouraging comment, and all the best.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 09:31, 2 March 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lost page ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saw that you had rewritten my edit on the Lost page regarding to its plot. I think your rewrite is much better than what I wrote. It reads very well now. {{unsigned|ConservaPeter}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks, I understood your edit, because the way it was before did sound a little negative. But believe it or not, I meant it originally as a compliment. Your comment made me realize that it wasn't coming off that way, so I re-wrote it to keep the idea that the loss of viewers has something to do with the show's complexity, but that the ones who've stuck with it are very devoted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:At any rate, what do you think of Season 6 so far? [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 07:49, 8 March 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I like it! I've yet to see a bad episode, including all previous seasons. It's gonna be fun to get some answers to questions like who &amp;quot;Adam and Eve&amp;quot; are and what exactly the alternate timeline is all about.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Sweden&amp;diff=760636</id>
		<title>Sweden</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Sweden&amp;diff=760636"/>
		<updated>2010-03-08T14:33:39Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: /* Some Notable Swedes */  Added Peter Stormare&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Country&lt;br /&gt;
|name           =''Konungariket Sverige''  &lt;br /&gt;
|map	        =Sweden rel96.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
|map2           =Sweden location.png&lt;br /&gt;
|flag	        =Flag of Sweden.png&lt;br /&gt;
|arms	        =Arms of Sweden.png&lt;br /&gt;
|capital	=Stockholm&lt;br /&gt;
|capital-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|government	=Constitutional monarchy&lt;br /&gt;
|government-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|language	=Swedish &lt;br /&gt;
|king	        =Carl XVI Gustaf&lt;br /&gt;
|queen	        =&lt;br /&gt;
|monarch-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|president	=&lt;br /&gt;
|president-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|chancellor	=&lt;br /&gt;
|chancellor-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|pm	        =Fredrik Reinfeldt&lt;br /&gt;
|pm-raw	        =&lt;br /&gt;
|area	        =173,732 sq mi&lt;br /&gt;
|pop	        =9,142,8174 (2007)&lt;br /&gt;
|pop-basis	=&lt;br /&gt;
|gdp	        =&lt;br /&gt;
|gdp-year	=$291 billion (2006)&lt;br /&gt;
|gdp-pc	        =$32,200 (2006)&lt;br /&gt;
|currency	=Swedish krona&lt;br /&gt;
|idd		=&lt;br /&gt;
|tld            =&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Sweden''' is a country in [[Scandinavia]]. The capital city is [[Stockholm]], which is also the largest city. Sweden has approximately 9 million inhabitants, with an area of 173,750 square miles (450,000 square kilometers).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden is a constitutional [[monarchy]] and a parliamentary [[democracy]]. The prime minister of Sweden is 41 year old Fredrik Reinfeldt, leader of the Moderates. The Swedish parliament has 349 seats. [[Carl XVI Gustaf]] is the current king. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==People==&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden has one of the world's highest life expectancies. The country counts at least 17,000 Sami among its population. About one-fifth of Sweden's population are immigrants or have at least one foreign-born parent. The largest immigrant groups are from Finland, Iraq, Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iran, Norway, Denmark, and Poland. This reflects Nordic immigration, earlier periods of labor immigration, and later decades of refugee and family immigration. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Swedish is a Germanic language related to Danish and Norwegian but different in pronunciation and orthography. English is by far the leading foreign language, particularly among students and those under age 50. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden has an extensive child-care system that guarantees a place for all young children from 2-6 years old in a public day-care facility. From ages 7-16, children attend compulsory comprehensive school. After completing the ninth grade, 90% attend upper secondary school for either academic or technical education. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Swedes benefit from an extensive social welfare system, which provides for childcare and maternity and paternity leave, a ceiling on health care costs, old-age pensions, and sick leave among other benefits. Parents are entitled to a total of 480 days' paid leave between birth and the child's eighth birthday, with 60 of those days reserved specifically for the father. &lt;br /&gt;
*Population (November 2007): 9,179,731. &lt;br /&gt;
*Annual population growth rate (2007): 0.76%.&lt;br /&gt;
*Ethnic groups: Indigenous Swedes, ethnic Finns, ethnic Sami.&lt;br /&gt;
*Immigrants: Total: 491,996 (20% of total population); Finns, Iraqis, ex-Yugoslavia nationals, Iranians, Norwegians, Danes, Greeks, and Turks.&lt;br /&gt;
*Religions: Lutheran (87%), Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim.&lt;br /&gt;
*Education: Years compulsory--9. Literacy--99%.&lt;br /&gt;
*Health: Infant mortality rate (2006)--2.80/1,000. Life expectancy--men 78.70 years, women 82.94 years.&lt;br /&gt;
*Work force (4.82 million, 2007 est.): Services--70.7%; industry--28.2%; agriculture--1.1%. Unemployment (2007)--5.2%. &lt;br /&gt;
*Public holidays (2008): January 1 (New Year's Day); January 6 (Epiphany); March 21 (Good Friday); March 22 (Easter); March 23 (Easter Sunday); March 24 (Easter Monday); May 1 (May Day and Ascension Day); May 11 (Whit Sunday); June 6 (National Day); June 21 (Midsummer Holiday); November 1 (All Saints' Day); December 25 (Christmas); December 26 (Boxing Day). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The eve of a holiday is as important--or more so--than the holiday itself. Most Swedes have the day off, including those working in the civil service, banks, public transport, hospitals, shops, and the media. Others have at least a half-day. This applies especially to Midsummer's Eve, All Saints' Day Eve, and Christmas Eve. The eve of May Day is called Valborg Eve or St Walpurgis. When a holiday falls on a Thursday many Swedes have the following Friday off in addition. When a holiday falls on a Saturday or Sunday it is not taken on the following Monday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Christianity in Sweden====&lt;br /&gt;
80% of the inhabitants belong to the Evangelical [[Lutheran Church]] of Sweden named The Swedish Church (Svenska kyrkan in Swedish). The number is so high because children born to members of the church automatically become lifelong members. This church is somewhat unique because it has decided to agree to perform a blessing ceremony for [[homosexuality|homosexuals]] engaging in registered partnership (full marriage for same sex couples is a matter of debate in Sweden). This Church is considered a [[liberal]] Church and does not protest against [[abortion]]s, [[divorce]], and other conservative issues. About 5% of the Swedish population belong to &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; Christian churches.&lt;br /&gt;
Regardless of the church membership polls suggest that 46-85% of Swedes to be either agnostics, atheists or non-believers of gods.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s the government decided to reduce education about Christianity in [[public school]]s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 2000, the Evangelical Lutheran Church and the government were separated. Before that, all children were born members of the church, except those whose parents took an active decision against it and both left the church. Even if a child were not christened, he or she became a member for life, having to pay a small tax to the church.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 2005 a Swedish Pentecostal preacher, [[Ake Green|Åke Green]], was charged with, and found guilty of hate speech, when preaching Biblical teachings regarding homosexuality. He was imprisoned for one month, but then acquitted by the High Court and the Supreme Court.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Abortion in Sweden==&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden provides taxpayer-subsidized, no-questions-asked [[abortion]]s during the first 18 weeks of [[pregnancy]]. During the following four weeks, [[women]] are required to get special permission for abortions. Swedish politicians are currently discussing whether foreign women should be allowed to have an late term abortion in Sweden, and it is possible that the parliament will vote in favor of that proposition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Government==&lt;br /&gt;
Popular government in Sweden rests upon ancient tradition. The Swedish parliament (Riksdag) stems from tribal courts (Ting) and the election of kings in the Viking age. It became a permanent institution in the 15th century. Sweden's government is a limited constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system. Executive authority is vested in the cabinet, which consists of a prime minister and 22 ministers who run the government departments. The present Alliance for Sweden government, led by Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt, came to power in September 2006. King Carl XVI Gustaf (Bernadotte) ascended to the throne on September 15, 1973. His authority is formal, symbolic, and representational. The unicameral Riksdag has 349 members, popularly elected every 4 years, and is in session generally from September through mid-June. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden has three levels of government: national, regional, and local. In addition, there is the European level which has acquired increasing importance following Sweden's entry into the EU. At parliamentary elections and municipal and county council elections held every four years, voters elect those who are to decide how Sweden is governed and administered. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden is divided into 18 counties (lan), 18 county councils (landsting), 290 municipalities (kommuner), and 2 semi-independent regions. Each county (lan) is headed by a governor, who is appointed by the central government. The counties coordinate administration with national political goals for the county. The county council (landsting) is a regional government that is popularly elected with particular responsibility for health and medical care. The municipalities are local governments that deal with issues such as education, public transportation and social welfare. Elected municipal councils are headed by executive committees roughly analogous to the boards of commissioners found in some U.S. cities. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Swedish law, drawing on Germanic and Roman law, is neither as codified as in France and other countries influenced by the Napoleonic Code, nor as dependent on judicial practice and precedents as in the United States. Legislative and judicial institutions include, in addition to the Riksdag, the Supreme Court, the Supreme Administrative Court, the Labor Court, the Law Council, District Courts and Courts of Appeal, the Public Prosecutor's Office, the parliamentary ombudsmen and the Chancellor of Justice who oversee the application of laws with particular attention to abuses of authority. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the national level, the Swedish people are represented by the Riksdag (Swedish parliament) which has legislative powers. Proposals for new laws are presented by the government which also implements decisions taken by the Riksdag. The government is assisted in its work by the government offices, comprising a number of ministries, and some 300 central government agencies and public administrations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Principal Government Officials=== &lt;br /&gt;
*Head of State--King Carl XVI Gustaf &lt;br /&gt;
*Prime Minister (Head of Government)--Fredrik Reinfeldt &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Finance--Anders Borg &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for the Environment--Andreas Carlgren &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Justice--Beatrice Ask &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Foreign Affairs--Carl Bildt &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for EU Affairs--Cecilia Malmstrom &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Social Security--Cristina Husmark Pehrsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Agriculture--Eskil Erlandsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for International Development Co-operation--Gunilla Carlsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Health and Social Affairs--Goran Hagglund &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Higher Education and Research--Lars Leijonborg&lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Education--Jan Bjorklund &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Culture--Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Elderly Care and Public Health--Maria Larsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Local Government and Financial Markets--Mats Odell &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Enterprise and Energy--Maud Olofsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Defense--Sten Tolgfors &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Integration and Gender Equality--Nyamko Sabuni &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Trade--Ewa Bjorling &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Employment--Sven Otto Littorin &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Migration and Asylum Policy--Tobias Billstrom &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Infrastructure--Asa Torstensson &lt;br /&gt;
*Ambassador to the United Nations--Anders Liden &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Political Conditions===&lt;br /&gt;
Ordinary general elections to the Swedish parliament are held every fourth year on the third Sunday in September. County council and municipal council elections take place at the same time. The last elections were held in September 2006. There is a barrier rule intended to prevent very small parties from gaining representation in the parliament. A party must thus receive at least 4% of the votes in the entire country or 12% in a single electoral district to qualify for any seats. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Elections to the Riksdag were held on September 17, 2006. The Alliance for Sweden (a coalition of four center-right parties--the Moderate Party, the Liberal Party, the Christian Democrat, and the Center Party) won 178 of the 349 seats, securing Moderate Fredrik Reinfeldt the position of Prime Minister. The 2006 election results for Sweden's major parties were as follows: the Social Democratic Party (34.99%; 130 seats), the Moderate Party (26.23%; 97 seats), the Center Party (7.88%; 29 seats), the Liberal Party (7.54%; 28 seats), the Christian Democrats (6.59%; 24 seats), the Left Party (5.85%; 22 seats), and the Green Party (5.24%; 19 seats). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Social Democratic Party has a base of blue-collar workers and public sector employees. It derives much of its power from strong links with the National Swedish Confederation of Trade Unions (LO), which represents blue-collar workers. The party program combines a commitment to social welfare programs and government direction of the economy. The Social Democratic Party has led the government for 65 of the 76 years since 1932; the 2006 election ended its most recent term of 12 consecutive years in office. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Moderate Party emphasizes personal freedom, free enterprise, and reduction of the public-sector growth rate, while still supporting most of the social benefits introduced since the 1930s. The party also supports a strong defense and Sweden's membership in the European Union (EU). Its voter base is urban business people and professionals, but the party also attracts young voters, main-street shop owners, and, to some extent, blue-collar workers. Moderate Party Leader Reinfeldt followed an election strategy of remodeling his party as &amp;quot;New Moderates,&amp;quot; moving away from the party's right-wing, upper-class roots to appeal to a large middle ground of voters, and successfully winning over many who had until then supported the SDP, as well as others who had previously voted for the smaller, non-socialist parties. Reinfeldt was instrumental in uniting the previously divided four parties of the center-right opposition. The Alliance offered alternative policies focusing on job creation that persuaded the voters. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Center Party maintains close ties to rural Sweden. The main priorities of the party include providing a sound economic climate for business and job creation, climate change and environmental concerns (including nuclear power), and health and welfare issues. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Left Party, formerly the Communist Party, focuses on feminist issues, employment in the public sector, and the environment. It opposes privatization, cuts in public expenditure, Swedish participation in NATO activities, and EU membership. Its voter base consists mainly of young people, public sector employees, feminists, journalists, and former social democrats. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Christian Democrat Party is conservative and value-oriented. Its voter base is primarily among members of conservative churches and rural populations. Christian Democrats seek government support for families and better ethical practices to improve care for the elderly. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Liberal Party's platform is &amp;quot;social responsibility without socialism,&amp;quot; which includes a commitment to a free-market economy combined with comprehensive Swedish social welfare programs. Foreign aid, education and women's equality also are popular issues. The Liberal Party base is mainly centered in educated middle-class voters. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Green Party is a leftist environmentalist party that attracts young people. The Greens support a phasing-out of nuclear energy in Sweden and hope to replace it with alternative, environmentally friendly energy sources. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The next Swedish election for parliament is scheduled to be held in 2010. In 2009 Sweden will vote for its representatives to the European Parliament. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Foreign Relations===&lt;br /&gt;
Swedish foreign policy is based on the premise that national security is best served by staying free of alliances in peacetime in order to remain neutral in the event of war. In 2002, Sweden revised its security doctrine. The new security doctrine still states that &amp;quot;Sweden pursues a policy of non-participation in military alliances,&amp;quot; but permits cooperation in response to threats against peace and security. The Swedish Government devotes particular attention to issues of disarmament, arms control, and nuclear nonproliferation and has contributed importantly to UN and other international peacekeeping efforts, including the NATO-led peacekeeping forces in the Balkans (KFOR). Sweden also contributes to the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan and assumed leadership of the Provincial Reconstruction Team in Mazar e-Sharif in March 2006. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden participates actively in the United Nations and its specialized and related agencies, including the World Bank, World Trade Organization (WTO), Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), the International Labor Organization (ILO), International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (USESCO), World Health Organization (WHO), and others including as a member of the Security Council in 1997-98. In January 1995, Sweden became a full member of the European Union after a referendum in late 1994 indicated that 52.3% of participants wanted to join. Sweden became a member in part due to its increasing isolation outside the economic framework of the Maastricht Treaty. Sweden is a member of NATO's Partnership for Peace (PFP) and participates in numerous international peacekeeping operations under UN auspices. Sweden also cooperates closely with its Nordic neighbors, formally in economic and social matters through the Nordic Council of Ministers and informally in political matters through direct consultation. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Swedish governments do not consider that nonalignment precludes taking outspoken positions in international affairs. Government leaders have favored [[national liberation]] movements that enjoy broad support among developing world countries, with notable attention to Africa. During the Cold War, Sweden was suspicious of the superpowers, which it saw as making decisions affecting small countries without always consulting those countries. With the end of the Cold War, that suspicion has lessened somewhat, although Sweden still chooses to remain nonaligned. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Economy ==&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden is a highly industrialized country. Agriculture, once accounting for nearly all of Sweden's economy, now employs less than 2% of the labor force. Extensive forests, rich iron ore deposits, and hydroelectric power are the natural resources which, through the application of technology and efficient organization, have enabled Sweden to become a leading producing and exporting nation. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Swedish economic picture has brightened significantly since the severe recession in the early 1990s. Growth has been strong in recent years, with an annual average GDP growth rate of 2.5% for the period 2000-2004 and 2.7% in 2005. The inflation rate was low in 2006, with an annual average inflation rate of about 1.5%, but unemployment remains a stubborn problem. The inflation rate rose to 3.5% in December 2007. The unemployment rate held steady in recent years at about 5% and in 2005 reached 7.8%. Unemployment in 2007 reached 5.2%. Since the mid-1990s, Sweden's export sector has grown significantly as the information technology (IT) industry, telecommunications, and services have overtaken traditional industries such as steel, paper, and pulp. The overall current-account surplus has traditionally been much smaller than the merchandise trade balance, as Sweden has generally run a deficit on trade in services, net income flows, and unrequited transfers. However, since 2003 this has not been the case, as the services balance swung into surplus in 2003 and improved further in 2004 and 2005. In addition, the income account also swung from deficit into surplus in 2003, before slipping back to register small deficits in 2004 and 2005. Although the transfers balance remained in deficit, mainly as a result of Sweden's contributions to the EU budget, the overall current-account surplus was larger than the trade surplus in 2003-05. Most categories of services exports produced an improvement over this period, but the biggest contribution came from business services exports, followed by transportation and royalties and license fees. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During 2005 real GDP rose by 2.5%, 3.4% in 2006, and 2.9% (est.) in 2007. The government budget improved dramatically from a record deficit of more than 12% of GDP in 1993 to a surplus of 0.9% of GDP in 2006. The new, strict budget process with spending ceilings set by parliament, and a constitutional change to an independent Central Bank, have greatly improved policy credibility. This can be seen in the long-term interest rate margin versus the Euro, which is negligible. From the perspective of longer-term fiscal sustainability, the long-awaited reform of old-age pensions entered into force in 1999. This entails a far more robust system vis-à-vis adverse demographic and economic trends, which should keep the ratio of total pension disbursements to the aggregate wage bill close to 20% in the decades ahead. Taken together, both fiscal consolidation and pension reform have brought public finances back on a sustainable footing. Gross public debt, which jumped from 43% of GDP in 1990 to 78% in 1994, stabilized around the middle of the 1990s and has been decreasing in recent years. In 2007 public debt was about 35.6% of GDP. These figures show excellent improvement of the Swedish economy since the crisis of the early 1990s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eighty percent of the Swedish labor force is unionized. For most unions there is a counterpart employers' organization for businesses. The unions and employer organizations are independent of both the government and political parties, although the largest federation of unions, the National Swedish Confederation of Trade Unions (LO), always has maintained close links to the largest political party, the Social Democrats. There is no fixed minimum wage by legislation. Instead, wages are set by collective bargaining. &lt;br /&gt;
*GDP (2007, purchasing power parity): $308.9 billion. GDP (2007, official exchange rate): $384.1 billion.&lt;br /&gt;
*Annual growth rate (3rd quarter 2007): 2.5%.&lt;br /&gt;
*Per capita income (2006, purchasing power parity): $33,897. &lt;br /&gt;
*Inflation rate (December 2007): 2.2%. &lt;br /&gt;
*Natural resources: Forests, hydroelectric power, iron ore, copper, lead, zinc, gold, silver, tungsten, uranium, arsenic, feldspar, timber.&lt;br /&gt;
*Agriculture (2006, 2.2% of GDP): Products--dairy products, meat, grains (barley, wheat), sugar beets, potatoes, wood. Arable land--6 million acres.&lt;br /&gt;
*Industry (2006, 38% of GDP): Types--machinery/metal products (iron and steel), electrical equipment, aircraft, paper products, precision equipment (bearings, radio and telephone parts, armaments), wood pulp and paper products, processed foods.&lt;br /&gt;
*Services (2006, 59.8% of GDP): Types--telecommunications, computer equipment, biotech.&lt;br /&gt;
*Trade: Exports (2006)--$148.8 billion. Types--machinery, transport equipment, motor vehicles, wood products, paper, pulp, chemicals, iron and steel products, and manufactured goods. Major trading partners, exports (2007)--Germany 9.9%, U.S. 9.3%, Norway 9.1%, U.K. 7.2%, EU total 59.7%. *Imports (2006)--$127.3 billion. Types--machinery, petroleum and petroleum products, chemicals, motor vehicles, iron and steel, foodstuffs, clothing. Major trading partners, imports (2007)--Germany 18.6%, Denmark 8.9%, Norway 8.5%, U.K. 6.9%, Netherlands 6.1%, Finland 6.0%, France 4.9%. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
see [[History of Sweden]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Some Notable Swedes==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Alfred Nobel]], inventor of dynamite; founded the [[Nobel Prize]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Anders Celsius]], inventor of the world standard [[Celsius scale]].&lt;br /&gt;
* Carl von Linné  (Carolus Linnaeus) inventor of the modern system of classifying all lifeforms.&lt;br /&gt;
* Greta Garbo, actress&lt;br /&gt;
* ABBA - 1970's rock group comprised of Benny Andersson, Björn Ulvaeus, Anni-Frid Lyngstad and Agnetha Fältskog.&lt;br /&gt;
* Dag Hammarskjöld, UN leader&lt;br /&gt;
* Astrid Lindgren&lt;br /&gt;
* Fredrik Ljungberg &lt;br /&gt;
* Henrik Larsson&lt;br /&gt;
* Stellan Skarsgård&lt;br /&gt;
* Saint Bridgid&lt;br /&gt;
* Lars Magnus Ericsson&lt;br /&gt;
* Gustavus Adolphus (king, founder of Gothenburg etc, died 1632 in the Thirty Years War)&lt;br /&gt;
* Björn Borg, tennis player&lt;br /&gt;
* Olof Palme, prime minister&lt;br /&gt;
* Ingemar Bergman, actress &lt;br /&gt;
* Roxette&lt;br /&gt;
* Jussi Bjoeling&lt;br /&gt;
* Laurentius Petri, archbishop and reformer&lt;br /&gt;
* Lewi Pethrus (1884–1974), founder of the Swedish Pentecostal movement&lt;br /&gt;
* Olaus Petri, reformer&lt;br /&gt;
* Nathan Söderblom, archbishop and Nobel Peace Prize laureate&lt;br /&gt;
* Erik Trolle, bishop and statesman&lt;br /&gt;
* Kettil Karlsson Vasa, bishop and statesman&lt;br /&gt;
* Saint Birgitta (1303–1373), patron saint of Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Emanuel Swedenborg (1688–1772), writer, mystic and philosopher&lt;br /&gt;
* Peter Stormare, actor&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Further reading==&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Sweden'' (Eyewitness Travel Guides) by DK Publishing (2005) [http://www.amazon.com/Sweden-Eyewitness-Travel-Guides-Publishing/dp/0756609135/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584198&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Frommer's Sweden'' ed. by Danforth Prince (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Sweden-Complete-Danforth-Prince/dp/0470432144/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584198&amp;amp;sr=1-2 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* '' Lonely Planet Sweden'' ed.  by Carolyn Bain and Graeme Cornwallis (2003) [http://www.amazon.com/Lonely-Planet-Sweden-Carolyn-Bain/dp/1740592271/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584640&amp;amp;sr=1-25  excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''The Rough Guide to Sweden'' ed. by James Proctor and Neil Roland (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Guide-Sweden-Travel-Guides/dp/1843536854/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584198&amp;amp;sr=1-5 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
*---&lt;br /&gt;
* Hancock, M. Donald ''Politics in Europe: An Introduction to the Politics of the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden'' (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Europe-Introduction-Kingdom-Germany/dp/1933116455/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584640&amp;amp;sr=1-27  excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.sweden.se SWEDEN.SE]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.svenskakyrkan.se Svenska Kyrkan]&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.lo.se &lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.moderaterna.se&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=913&amp;amp;a=324428&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.gluefox.com&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.livetsord.se/default.aspx?idStructure=918&lt;br /&gt;
* http://perkornhall.se/LivetsOrd/index-eng.htm&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.skattebetalarna.se&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/History/MacKinder/mackinder.html&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-NWE-Norway/index.html&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.sweden.se/templates/cs/Article____12355.aspx&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2880.htm source for much of this article; not copyright]&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:European Countries]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:EU Members]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Scandinavian Countries]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Sweden]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:European History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Rage_Against_The_Machine&amp;diff=760631</id>
		<title>Rage Against The Machine</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Rage_Against_The_Machine&amp;diff=760631"/>
		<updated>2010-03-08T14:11:46Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Added some new information&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Rage Against The Machine''' is an [[American]] alternative rock band that formed in [[California]] in 1991. They are well known for their [[politics|political]] lyrics, protests, and vocal opposition to [[censorship]]. The group is made up of four members; Tom Morello, Zach de la Rocha, Tim Commerford and Brad Wilk.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For the past two years, the group has sporadically toured the US and some other countries such as Australia and Japan.&lt;br /&gt;
However, there has been no word on an official reunion tour or album being in the works as of yet.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Discography==&lt;br /&gt;
Rage Against The Machine's studio albums are:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Rage Against The Machine (1992)&lt;br /&gt;
*Evil Empire (1996)&lt;br /&gt;
*The Battle of Los Angeles (1999)&lt;br /&gt;
*Renegades (2000)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Bands]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Christian_Rock&amp;diff=760630</id>
		<title>Christian Rock</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Christian_Rock&amp;diff=760630"/>
		<updated>2010-03-08T14:10:07Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Edited 2000s so that it reads better. It was not very well written before.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Christian Rock''' is a genre of [[music]].  It is [[Rock music|Rock]], with Christian Lyrics. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The genre has come under fire from some Fundamentalist Christians who say the music is a compromise with the secular world.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.av1611.org/crock/crock1.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Origins==&lt;br /&gt;
Christian Rock started in the early 1970s during the [[Jesus Movement]].  During the 1970s it was often called &amp;quot;Jesus Music&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Jesus Rock&amp;quot;.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There were two different kinds of Jesus Music.  One was the many songs about Jesus by secular [[top 40]] pop groups that were major hit singles from 1969-1973.  These included songs like &amp;quot;Spirit in the Sky&amp;quot; by [[Norman Greenbaum]], &amp;quot;Put Your Hand in the Hand&amp;quot; by [[Ocean (band)|Ocean]], &amp;quot;Are You Ready&amp;quot; by [[Pacific Gas and Electric (band)|Pacific Gas and Electric]], &amp;quot;Fire and Rain&amp;quot; by [[James Taylor]], &amp;quot;Why Me&amp;quot; by [[Kris Kristofferson]], as well as the musicals [[Jesus Christ Superstar]] and [[Godspell]]. Some of these songs were in no way Christian and were theologically inaccurate, such as &amp;quot;Spirit in the Sky&amp;quot;, in which the doctrine of sin was completely denied and which was written by the Jewish Norman Greenbaum.  Many of these pop artists were not Christians themselves but songs about Jesus became very popular at the time and many joined in.  The list extends to spiritual but not specifically Christian songs like &amp;quot;My Sweet Lord&amp;quot; by [[George Harrison]], and &amp;quot;Bridge Over Troubled Water&amp;quot; by [[Simon and Garfunkel]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other genre given the Jesus Music label was made by a younger generation of Christians who saw no reason why rock and roll could not be used to spread the Gospel.  Some of these like [[Larry Norman]] were people raised in the church and Christians from a young age, who also liked rock and roll and wanted to use rock in service to God; others like the members of the [[All Saved Freak Band]] and the [[Resurrection Band]] were made up of converts who came out of the secular rock and roll world, drugs, the [[occult]], or the [[hippie]] movement.  Larry Norman, the All Saved Freak Band, and the Resurrection Band were three of the most important of the early Jesus Music bands, and all three were closely associated with the Jesus Movement, a movement among young people, many ex-hippies and ex-drug users, turning to Jesus Christ for salvation and ministering through street-level ministries such as coffee houses and outreach ministries in the inner city.  Also important were the groups such as [[Love Song (band)|Love Song]], associated with Pastor Chuck Smith's [[Calvary Chapel]] of Costa Mesa, [[California]].  Smith's church focused on ministering to young people from the [[counterculture]], and he established Maranatha Music, the first record label solely devoted to Christian pop and rock music.  Besides the aforementioned, other important artists started in the 1970s who would see their biggest success in the 1980s and 1990s.  They include: [[Petra (band)|Petra]], [[DeGarmo &amp;amp; Key]], [[Servant (band)|Servant]], [[Randy Stonehill]], [[Mylon LeFevre]], and the Talbot brothers ([[John Michael Talbot|John]] and [[Terry Talbot|Terry]], formerly of the secular rock band [[Mason Proffit]]).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The 1980s==&lt;br /&gt;
The 1980s saw Christian Rock shed its counterculture hippie image at the beginning of the decade and aim for the mainstream.  The &amp;quot;Jesus Music&amp;quot; label fell out of favor and newer styles like [[new wave]] and [[heavy metal]] started finding a foothold in Christian music.  Christian pop and [[adult contemporary]] also became a major music genre during the decade, led by [[Amy Grant]] and [[Michael W. Smith]].  Some bands from the 1970s who had seen some minor success suddenly became among the top tier of Christian Rock artists after 1980, led by Petra.  The label 'Contemporary Christian Music' came into usage during this time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the more controversial new bands was [[Stryper]].  Stryper was far from the first Christian band to play heavy metal, having been preceded by bands like [[Jerusalem (band)|Jerusalem]], [[Agape (band)|Agape]], and the Resurrection Band, but what made Stryper controversial was appearing on stage in 80s [[Glam Metal]] garb complete with flashy yellow and black tight-fitting [[spandex]], posing on their album covers with an arsenal of high-tech rifles, and album titles like ''To Hell With the Devil''.  Even worse to some critics, Stryper went on tour with secular metal bands like [[Motley Crue]].  Another controversial artist was [[Steve Taylor]].  Like Stryper, Taylor was not the pioneer of his genre, in this case, Christian new wave musically similar to [[Devo]] and [[Oingo Boingo]]; but he attracted controversy because his lyrics used heavy sarcasm to make a point.  He repeatedly had to endure misunderstanding in the wake of such songs as &amp;quot;I Want To Be a Clone&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Lifeboat&amp;quot;; and his song &amp;quot;I Blew Up the Clinic Real Good&amp;quot; was even more controversial as Taylor found himself on the [[Oprah Winfrey]] show defending himself and having to explain the song's meaning to angry [[feminist]]s who didn't get the irony.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another trend in the 1980s was similar to that of the early 1970s, many secular rock bands discovering Jesus as subject matter for their songs.  [[U2]] and [[Kansas (band)|Kansas]] were obviously in the forefront of this, not the least because some members of U2 and Kansas really had converted to Christianity.  Other 80s artists notable either for using Christian themes or for one or more members professing a Christian faith include, [[Mr. Mister]], [[Simple Minds]], [[The Call]], [[The Alarm]], [[After the Fire]], [[Kajagoogoo]], [[T-Bone Burnett]], and much later in the decade, [[King's X]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The 1990s ==&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1990, Christian Rock has kept up with changing musical tastes.  [[DC Talk]], who had started as a Christian [[rap]] group in the late 80s, changed to a [[Rock Music]] and [[grunge]] style in the mid 90s and saw some crossover success on the secular rock charts.  Michael W. Smith also became a major crossover artist starting in 1991. Newsboys started in 1985, but became a major artist in the 1990s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The 2000s ==&lt;br /&gt;
In the 2000s, Metal made a comeback in Christian Rock. For example, the band [[Stryper]] made a comeback with a completely changed style to a more [[Heavy Metal]] sound, while bands from the 1990s, such as Demon Hunter and Narnia, became more popular than before. In 2002, [[Kutless]] became popular, with a new Hard Rock sound&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.kutless.com/albumKutless.aspx&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;. Bands/Artists such as [[Third Day]], Chris Tomlin, Tree 63, and [[Casting Crowns]] became popular, bringing a Worship influenced sound into Christian Rock. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Bands==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some more notable Christian rock bands include:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Anberlin]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[As I Lay Dying]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[August Burns Red]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Becoming The Archetype]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Cubed]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[dc Talk]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Demon Hunter]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Disciple (Band)|Disciple]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[DivineFire]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Dogwood]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Extol]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Five Iron Frenzy]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Haste the Day]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Insyderz]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Jars of Clay]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Kutless]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Michael W. Smith]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Narnia (Christian Metal Band)|Narnia]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Newsboys]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Petra (band)|Petra]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Relient K]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Rob Rock]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Steven Curtis Chapman]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Stryper]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Switchfoot]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[The OC Supertones]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== See Also ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Christian Metal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Christian Popular Music]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Baker, Paul.  ''Contemporary Christian Music: Where It Came From, Where It's Going''.  Crossway Books, 1985.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Musical Genres]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Christian_Rock&amp;diff=760628</id>
		<title>Christian Rock</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Christian_Rock&amp;diff=760628"/>
		<updated>2010-03-08T14:07:05Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Removed the part about it being one of the fastest growing music genres since it's been without a citation for a long time and I couldn't find any articles about it&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Christian Rock''' is a genre of [[music]].  It is [[Rock music|Rock]], with Christian Lyrics. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The genre has come under fire from some Fundamentalist Christians who say the music is a compromise with the secular world.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.av1611.org/crock/crock1.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Origins==&lt;br /&gt;
Christian Rock started in the early 1970s during the [[Jesus Movement]].  During the 1970s it was often called &amp;quot;Jesus Music&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Jesus Rock&amp;quot;.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
There were two different kinds of Jesus Music.  One was the many songs about Jesus by secular [[top 40]] pop groups that were major hit singles from 1969-1973.  These included songs like &amp;quot;Spirit in the Sky&amp;quot; by [[Norman Greenbaum]], &amp;quot;Put Your Hand in the Hand&amp;quot; by [[Ocean (band)|Ocean]], &amp;quot;Are You Ready&amp;quot; by [[Pacific Gas and Electric (band)|Pacific Gas and Electric]], &amp;quot;Fire and Rain&amp;quot; by [[James Taylor]], &amp;quot;Why Me&amp;quot; by [[Kris Kristofferson]], as well as the musicals [[Jesus Christ Superstar]] and [[Godspell]]. Some of these songs were in no way Christian and were theologically inaccurate, such as &amp;quot;Spirit in the Sky&amp;quot;, in which the doctrine of sin was completely denied and which was written by the Jewish Norman Greenbaum.  Many of these pop artists were not Christians themselves but songs about Jesus became very popular at the time and many joined in.  The list extends to spiritual but not specifically Christian songs like &amp;quot;My Sweet Lord&amp;quot; by [[George Harrison]], and &amp;quot;Bridge Over Troubled Water&amp;quot; by [[Simon and Garfunkel]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The other genre given the Jesus Music label was made by a younger generation of Christians who saw no reason why rock and roll could not be used to spread the Gospel.  Some of these like [[Larry Norman]] were people raised in the church and Christians from a young age, who also liked rock and roll and wanted to use rock in service to God; others like the members of the [[All Saved Freak Band]] and the [[Resurrection Band]] were made up of converts who came out of the secular rock and roll world, drugs, the [[occult]], or the [[hippie]] movement.  Larry Norman, the All Saved Freak Band, and the Resurrection Band were three of the most important of the early Jesus Music bands, and all three were closely associated with the Jesus Movement, a movement among young people, many ex-hippies and ex-drug users, turning to Jesus Christ for salvation and ministering through street-level ministries such as coffee houses and outreach ministries in the inner city.  Also important were the groups such as [[Love Song (band)|Love Song]], associated with Pastor Chuck Smith's [[Calvary Chapel]] of Costa Mesa, [[California]].  Smith's church focused on ministering to young people from the [[counterculture]], and he established Maranatha Music, the first record label solely devoted to Christian pop and rock music.  Besides the aforementioned, other important artists started in the 1970s who would see their biggest success in the 1980s and 1990s.  They include: [[Petra (band)|Petra]], [[DeGarmo &amp;amp; Key]], [[Servant (band)|Servant]], [[Randy Stonehill]], [[Mylon LeFevre]], and the Talbot brothers ([[John Michael Talbot|John]] and [[Terry Talbot|Terry]], formerly of the secular rock band [[Mason Proffit]]).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The 1980s==&lt;br /&gt;
The 1980s saw Christian Rock shed its counterculture hippie image at the beginning of the decade and aim for the mainstream.  The &amp;quot;Jesus Music&amp;quot; label fell out of favor and newer styles like [[new wave]] and [[heavy metal]] started finding a foothold in Christian music.  Christian pop and [[adult contemporary]] also became a major music genre during the decade, led by [[Amy Grant]] and [[Michael W. Smith]].  Some bands from the 1970s who had seen some minor success suddenly became among the top tier of Christian Rock artists after 1980, led by Petra.  The label 'Contemporary Christian Music' came into usage during this time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the more controversial new bands was [[Stryper]].  Stryper was far from the first Christian band to play heavy metal, having been preceded by bands like [[Jerusalem (band)|Jerusalem]], [[Agape (band)|Agape]], and the Resurrection Band, but what made Stryper controversial was appearing on stage in 80s [[Glam Metal]] garb complete with flashy yellow and black tight-fitting [[spandex]], posing on their album covers with an arsenal of high-tech rifles, and album titles like ''To Hell With the Devil''.  Even worse to some critics, Stryper went on tour with secular metal bands like [[Motley Crue]].  Another controversial artist was [[Steve Taylor]].  Like Stryper, Taylor was not the pioneer of his genre, in this case, Christian new wave musically similar to [[Devo]] and [[Oingo Boingo]]; but he attracted controversy because his lyrics used heavy sarcasm to make a point.  He repeatedly had to endure misunderstanding in the wake of such songs as &amp;quot;I Want To Be a Clone&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;Lifeboat&amp;quot;; and his song &amp;quot;I Blew Up the Clinic Real Good&amp;quot; was even more controversial as Taylor found himself on the [[Oprah Winfrey]] show defending himself and having to explain the song's meaning to angry [[feminist]]s who didn't get the irony.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another trend in the 1980s was similar to that of the early 1970s, many secular rock bands discovering Jesus as subject matter for their songs.  [[U2]] and [[Kansas (band)|Kansas]] were obviously in the forefront of this, not the least because some members of U2 and Kansas really had converted to Christianity.  Other 80s artists notable either for using Christian themes or for one or more members professing a Christian faith include, [[Mr. Mister]], [[Simple Minds]], [[The Call]], [[The Alarm]], [[After the Fire]], [[Kajagoogoo]], [[T-Bone Burnett]], and much later in the decade, [[King's X]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The 1990s ==&lt;br /&gt;
Since 1990, Christian Rock has kept up with changing musical tastes.  [[DC Talk]], who had started as a Christian [[rap]] group in the late 80s, changed to a [[Rock Music]] and [[grunge]] style in the mid 90s and saw some crossover success on the secular rock charts.  Michael W. Smith also became a major crossover artist starting in 1991. Newsboys started in 1985, but became a major artist in the 1990s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The 2000s ==&lt;br /&gt;
In the 2000s, Metal made a comeback in Christian Rock, for [[Stryper]] made a comeback, and completely changed their style, to a [[Heavy Metal]] sound, while bands from the 1990s such as Demon Hunter, and Narnia became more popular than before. In 2002, [[Kutless]] became popular, with a new Hard Rock sound&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.kutless.com/albumKutless.aspx&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;. Bands/Artists such as [[Third Day]], Chris Tomlin, Tree 63, and [[Casting Crowns]] became popular, bringing a Worship influenced sound into Christian Rock. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Bands==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some more notable Christian rock bands include:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Anberlin]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[As I Lay Dying]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[August Burns Red]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Becoming The Archetype]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Cubed]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[dc Talk]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Demon Hunter]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Disciple (Band)|Disciple]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[DivineFire]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Dogwood]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Extol]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Five Iron Frenzy]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Haste the Day]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Insyderz]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Jars of Clay]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Kutless]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Michael W. Smith]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Narnia (Christian Metal Band)|Narnia]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Newsboys]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Petra (band)|Petra]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Relient K]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Rob Rock]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Steven Curtis Chapman]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Stryper]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Switchfoot]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[The OC Supertones]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== See Also ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Christian Metal]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Christian Popular Music]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
* Baker, Paul.  ''Contemporary Christian Music: Where It Came From, Where It's Going''.  Crossway Books, 1985.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Musical Genres]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Donald_Rumsfeld&amp;diff=760627</id>
		<title>Donald Rumsfeld</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Donald_Rumsfeld&amp;diff=760627"/>
		<updated>2010-03-08T13:59:35Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Added information regarding his resignation&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:ASecDefRumsfeld01.jpg|right|thumb|Donald Rumsfeld]]&lt;br /&gt;
'''Donald Henry Rumsfeld''' (b. July 9, 1932) was the [[United States Secretary of Defense|Secretary of Defense]] first under President [[Gerald Ford]] from 1975 to 1977 and second under [[George W. Bush]] from 2001 to 2006. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In his second term as Secretary, Rumsfeld showed an intense, unwavering commitment to military transformation--his vision of a leaner, more lethal Department of Defense. He performed brilliantly for the press and won over public opinion. However inside the Pentagon, he ran roughshod over the most experienced generals and admirals, who resented his resistance to professional advice. After 9-11, he directed the war in Afghanistan, which seemingly vindicated this concept of transformation. While the prospect of war in Iraq in 2003 promised a wider proving ground for it, the unexpected counterinsurgency campaign that followed undermined Rumsfeld's transformation and highlighted his failures in planning and his resistance to changing policies. In late 2006, Bush fired Rumsfeld, replacing him with [[Robert Gates]], who changed strategies and commanders, thus defeating the insurgency and leading the way to victory in Iraq. &lt;br /&gt;
==Career==&lt;br /&gt;
Born in Chicago, Donald Rumsfeld received his bachelor's degree in 1954 from [[Princeton University]], where he captained the wrestling team. After serving three years (1954–57) in the Navy as an aviator, he worked as a congressional aide in Washington, and as an investment banker in Chicago. In 1962 he won election as a Republican to the [[United States House of Representatives]] from the North Shore district of Illinois; he was reelected in 1964, 1966, and 1968.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Nixon and Ford==&lt;br /&gt;
Rumsfeld gave up his safe congressional seat the following year to serve at the Office of Economic Opportunity and at the White House in the administration of President [[Richard Nixon]]. From 1973 to 1974 Rumsfeld was in Brussels, Belgium, as U.S. ambassador to the [[North Atlantic Treaty Organization]] (NATO).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In August 1974, after Nixon resigned, Rumsfeld was summoned back to Washington to head President Ford's transition team. He then served as Ford's chief of staff until nominated and confirmed as Secretary of Defense. While at the Department of Defense he campaigned vigorously for increased defense spending, took an active role in Strategic Arms Limitation Talks (SALT) with the [[Soviet Union]], and made his own test flight in an early version of the B-1 bomber.&lt;br /&gt;
==Business==&lt;br /&gt;
After Ford lost the 1976 presidential election, Rumsfeld returned to the private sector, applying his tough-minded management style as chief executive officer, president, and chairman of the G. D. Searle pharmaceutical firm and in subsequent corporate assignments. He continued to speak out on defense issues and was a voice on several prestigious national commissions. &lt;br /&gt;
==Defense==&lt;br /&gt;
When George W. Bush was elected president in 2000, his transition manager, Vice-President-elect [[Dick Cheney]], who had been Rumsfeld's protégé in both the Nixon and Ford administrations, recruited Rumsfeld to serve a second term as defense secretary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Quickly confirmed by the Senate, Rumsfeld took office in January of 2001. During his first seven months on the job, he sought, amid opposition, to restructure the military to meet the needs of the post-[[Cold War]] era. After [[al-Qaeda]] terrorists attacked the U.S. on [[9/11|September 11]], using hijacked aircraft to strike Defense Department headquarters at the Pentagon and to destroy the World Trade Center, Rumsfeld was an outspoken champion of the Bush Administration's [[War on Terror]]. He oversaw the defeat of the [[Taliban]] regime in [[Afghanistan]], which had aided al-Qaeda, and he presided over the largest military buildup since the early 1980s, disarming some media skeptics with his confidence and candor.&lt;br /&gt;
==Iraq==&lt;br /&gt;
Once the war with the regime of dictator [[Saddam Hussein]] began, the rapid success of U.S.-led forces in ousting Saddam appeared to vindicate Rumsfeld's insistence on sophisticated weaponry, strategic flexibility, and preemptive action. However, after major combat operations ended, and U.S. liberation forces began to face daily attacks from Saddam supporters and other terrorists, critics charged that Rumsfeld had underestimated the problems involved. The criticism intensified in April 2004, with the release of photographs providing evidence of pranks carried out on Iraqi terrorist prisoners by a handful of U.S. military personnel at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison during the fall of 2003. Rumsfeld acknowledged in early 2005 that he had twice offered to resign after the Abu Ghraib revelations, but that President Bush had rejected the offers. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For most of 2005 and 2006, President Bush continued to back Rumsfeld but his strategy in Iraq had failed and he was a drag on the GOP. Finally, on November 8, 2006, the day after an election in which Democrats had captured control of Congress, Bush announced that Rumsfeld would step down; named to replace him was [[Robert Gates]], a conservative who had headed the [[Central Intelligence Agency]] during the presidency of [[George H. W. Bush]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Resignation==&lt;br /&gt;
Rumsfeld resigned on 18 December 2006 after a number of retired generals called for his resignation.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/14/washington/14military.html?_r=1&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When he began his first term as defense secretary, he was the youngest person in U.S. history to hold that position; when he left office at the end of his second term, he was the oldest.&lt;br /&gt;
==Further reading==&lt;br /&gt;
* Graham, Bradley. ''By His Own Rules'' (2009), 803 pp. the best of the journalistic biographies&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{DEFAULTSORT:Rumsfeld, Donald}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:United States Appointed Officials]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservatives]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Reagan Era]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Iraq War]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Fox_News_Channel&amp;diff=760626</id>
		<title>Fox News Channel</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Fox_News_Channel&amp;diff=760626"/>
		<updated>2010-03-08T13:54:40Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Fixed a typo under &amp;quot;Sarah Palin&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:FNC logo.jpg|right]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Fox News Channel''' is a [[United States]] [[cable]] and [[satellite]] [[news]] channel. It is part of the Fox Television Stations Group, a subsidiary of [[Australia|Australian]]-born media mogul [[Rupert Murdoch]]'s [[News Corporation]]. [[Roger Ailes]] was named Chairman of the Fox Television Stations Group on August 15, 2005.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Founding==&lt;br /&gt;
Fox News was started in 1996 by Murdoch and Roger Ailes. The two of them perceived a need for a news organization that offered more balanced reporting, one where the facts from all sides would be presented. Main-stream media &amp;quot;Political Correctness&amp;quot; was banished, with the news [[anchor]]s calling [[terrorist]]s what they were, (terrorists), instead of referring to them as &amp;quot;militants.&amp;quot;  As of February, 2007, polls show that over 20% of Americans say their main source of news is the Fox News Channel.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fox News uses the slogan &amp;quot;Fair &amp;amp; Balanced&amp;quot; and has daily guest pundits from all sides of the [[political spectrum]]. Fox News also is non-hostile to conservative and [[Christian]] values, viewpoints, spokesmen, and ideas. Fox News has gained the reputation for reporting the news in an unbiased manner and then allowing the viewer to decide; &amp;quot;We Report, You Decide&amp;quot; is another of their on-air slogans.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Fox News has dominated the [[ratings]] of other cable news outlets.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-anderson4oct04,0,2195035.story?coll=la-opinion-center]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Launched by media [[tycoon]] Rupert Murdoch and former political consultant Roger Ailes as a refuge for viewers fed up with real or perceived liberal bias everywhere in the so-called &amp;quot;[[mainstream media]]&amp;quot;, Fox is the undisputed ratings champion of cable news.  It's been trouncing [[CNN]], [[MSNBC]] and [[CNBC]] for years, and draws a much larger audience share than all competitors, including the three major broadcast news shows, combined. It is by far the most profitable news network in the world, on track to earn more than $700 Million in 2010. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/business/media/10ailes.html New York Times, January 9, 2010]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Fair and Balanced==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Fair_balanced.jpg‎ |thumb|left|Fair And Balanced Logo]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Liberal]] critics have been known to complain about the &amp;quot;Fair &amp;amp; Balanced&amp;quot; slogan.  Former President [[Bill Clinton]] exploded at ''Fox News Sunday'' anchor [[Chris Wallace]] in September of 2006, accusing him of &amp;quot;a nice little conservative hit job&amp;quot; after being lightly pressed by Wallace about his record on fighting [[Al Qaeda]].   Democratic politicians and advocates have relentlessly attacked the cable network, sometimes accusing it of being a Republican [[propaganda mill]].  Former Vice-President and environmentalist [[Al Gore]] has likened Fox to a right-wing &amp;quot;[[fifth column]].&amp;quot;  Groups, such as [[MoveOn.org]], funded a classic [[schlockumentary]] entitled ''[[Outfoxed]]'', which purports to expose the channel's 'nefarious Republican agenda'.  Some have referred to FOX News as &amp;quot;the propaganda arm of the Republican Party&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Faux News.&amp;quot; In a grandstanding gesture of political theater the group unsuccessfully petitioned the [[Federal Trade Commission]] to stop Fox's from using its slogan as &amp;quot;deceptive advertising&amp;quot;. It was unanimously rejected. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.showbizdata.com/news/36127/FTC-REJECTS-COMPLAINTS-AGAINST-FOX-NEWS  FTC: &amp;quot;It's best to ignore nuts&amp;quot;]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Fox News spokesman Rob Zimmerman told today's (Tuesday) Wall Street Journal: &amp;quot;If they can attack Fox News to this extreme, ''then all news organizations are at risk to be targeted by similar attacks. ... It's best to ignore nuts.&amp;quot;'' &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A recent comprehensive study by [[UCLA]] political scientist Tim Groseclose and University of Missouri-Columbia economics professor Jeffrey Milyo found [[Brit Hume]]'s ''Special Report'' — Fox's most straightforward news show — more centrist than any of the three major networks' evening newscasts, all of which are liberal. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://rcp.missouri.edu/articles/milyo_media.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The program is a model of smart news television. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although it is true that the Fox's opinion shows (as opposed to its news shows) are, as they're supposed to be, frequently bombastic and opinionated; it is equally true that Fox's biggest super-star, [[Bill O'Reilly]] is not a mainstream Republican, but a registered [[Independent]] who sides with conservatives. He regularly charges the oil companies with [[price-gouging]] and attacks big business for quashing the little guy. [[Greta Van Susteren]]'s politics are unclear, as she mostly covers the [[crime]]-of-the-day stories. [[Geraldo Rivera]] is traditionally liberal on most issues, with the exception of being a strong supporter of the military and stiff penalties for [[sex offender]]s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some liberal commentators, such as news analyst [[Marvin Kalb]], and [[Eleanor Clift]], are affiliated with the channel. In general, Fox News is closer to mainstream America than [[CBS]], [[ABC]], [[NBC]] or [[CNN]], its founding mission.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Conservatives have criticism for Fox. Their 'Fair and Balanced' motto allows [[liberal]] [[propaganda]], lies, deceit, and half-truths to gain an audience. In reality, Fox was judged to actually provide a more &amp;quot;fair and balanced&amp;quot; coverage in the 2008 Presidential race than all three MSM networks, who had a decidedly pro-Obama tilt, a study by the ''Center for Media and Public Affairs''. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.cmpa.com/pdf/08summer.pdf Center for Media and Public Affairs: ''How TV News Has Covered McCain, Obama and Hillary'']&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Ratings Dominance ==&lt;br /&gt;
Fox News Channel was the 2nd highest rated cable channel on all of television during the first quarter of 2009 in prime time Total Viewers. CNN was 17th and MSNBC 24th for the first three months of the year. FNC beat CNN and MSNBC combined and gained the most compared to the first quarter of 2008, up 24%.  2009's first quarter was FNC's 3rd highest rated quarter in prime time in the network's history — just behind Q4 '08 and Q3 '05. In prime time, ages 25-54 demo, and in total day in both categories, FNC grew more year-to-year than CNN and MSNBC combined. FNC had nine of the top 10 programs on cable news in Total Viewers. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Bill O'Reilly|The O'Reilly Factor]] has now been #1 on cable news for 100 consecutive months, up 27% in Total Viewers year-over-year. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Glenn Beck]] has increased the 5pmET time period 90% in Total Viewers and 115% in the demo vs. Q1 '08, ''and is the fastest growing program in cable news for March''. Special Report with Bret Baier is up 39% in Total Viewers and 41% in the demo. [[Sean Hannity|&amp;quot;Hannity&amp;quot;]] is up 36% in Total Viewers and up 35% in the demo since going solo for the hour.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Those three new programs beat CNN and MSNBC ''combined'' in total viewers during their respective time slots.&lt;br /&gt;
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On the Record with [[Greta Van Susteren]] is up 55% in total viewers and 75% in the demo. Your World with Neil Cavuto is up 60% in Total Viewers and 102% in the demo. Glenn Beck, is up 212% in the demo and up 128% in total viewers. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/april_ratings_fnc_beats_cnn_and_msnbc_combined_115179.asp Media Bistro: April Ratings: FNC Beats CNN and MSNBC Combined]&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Anti-elitist ==&lt;br /&gt;
Conservatives argue that Fox's real ethos is not Republican or conservative, but anti-[[elitist]] — a major reason it connects with so many Americans and annoys so many coastal elites. &amp;quot;There's a whole country that elitists will never acknowledge,&amp;quot; Ailes once observed. &amp;quot;What people resent deeply out there are those in the 'blue states' thinking they're smarter.&amp;quot;  This anti-elitism shows itself in Fox's pro-U.S. stance in covering the [[Afghanistan]] and [[Iraq war]]s and its broadcasters' use of terms such as &amp;quot;terrorist&amp;quot; instead of the politically correct &amp;quot;militant&amp;quot; to refer to terrorists. Since the [[Vietnam War]] era, mainstream [[journalist]]s have tended to see such blunt language and side-taking as unsophisticated, a betrayal of journalistic [[objectivity]], or perhaps their own ingrained biases against government in general.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Another aspect of Fox's anti-elitism is the treatment of [[evangelical]] and [[fundamentalist Christian]]s with respect, far from the normal liberal media's depiction as as lunatics or extremists. &amp;quot;We regularly have on the [[Rev. Franklin Graham]], [[Dr. James Dobson]] and other religious leaders, just as we put on [[Pat Ireland]] and Eleanor Clift,&amp;quot; Ailes said, continuing,  ''&amp;quot;Most Americans believe in God and have that as their foundation in life. So why shouldn't we have as guests people that they like, respect and want to hear from?&amp;quot; '' Ailes said he didn't get &amp;quot;too worked up&amp;quot; by a [[Pew Foundation]] study that showed that Fox has more Republican viewers than CNN, CNBC or MSNBC and that his reporters and anchors insert their opinions into stories far more than competitors do. Numbers might have something to do with it: Fox is beating the combined audience of the other three. But Ailes dismissed Pew as a &amp;quot;liberal [[lobbyist|lobbying]] organization.&amp;quot; He said, &amp;quot;Most polls today are not taken to provide information to the public but to get press for the organization taking the polls. I took a poll of Pew, and 98% of my organization found that they were biased&amp;quot;, Ailes said with a wink. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/mediamix/2005-04-06-media-mix_x.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In response, Project director Tom Rosenstiel said the study &amp;quot;was not a poll. It was a content analysis designed by a four-university research team and executed at the [[University of Alabama]].&amp;quot; ''One plus for Fox, he said, was that researchers found Fox News stories were more forthcoming about sourcing than their cable rivals.'' &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/mediamix/2005-04-06-media-mix_x.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fox Versus Fringe Views ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;What really frustrates liberals about Fox, though, is simply that, along with [[talk radio]] and the conservative [[blogosphere]], it has helped shatter the left's near-monopoly on news and information. Fox's opinion-driven programming gives conservatives and liberals a chance to get a fair hearing for their ideas. But Democratic politicians and activists who go on Fox also must defend their views, often against tough questioning, something that happens less often on the networks, where most journalists are left-of-center, survey after survey has shown&amp;quot;, said columnist [[Brian Anderson]]. &amp;quot;Even more significant, Fox came on the scene a decade ago as a professional news organization that could define and report news as something different from what the elite consensus says it is. To take one of many examples, the corruption of the [[United Nations]]' [[oil-for-food]] initiative in [[Iraq]], initially downplayed by the mainstream media because of their sympathy for internationalism, was uncovered — deemed newsworthy — on Fox.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All this wouldn't matter if Fox News wasn't so influential. But it is. According to the Pew Research Center, more than 20% of Americans now claim to get news from it, and lots of them (37%) are Democrats or independents. The network's success has also sparked a &amp;quot;Fox effect,&amp;quot; leading some competitors to become more open to right-of-center opinions: MSNBC's &amp;quot;Scarborough Country,&amp;quot; hosted by former Republican congressman [[Joe Scarborough]], is a prime example. Until a few years ago, Democrats never had to deal with all these mediatized conservatives. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-anderson4oct04,0,2195035.story?coll=la-opinion-center&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Ailes said Fox News has no agenda. His charge to his reporters and anchors is simple: &amp;quot;If you make a mistake, get on the air as fast as you can and admit it. ... Do your homework. Make sure you reach out to a point of view you don't agree with to be sure you have some balance in your piece, because journalists, despite the public perception, are not empty-headed fools. They actually come to the job with some ideas and biases.&amp;quot; When asked whether the media have a &amp;quot;conscious bias,&amp;quot; Ailes said: &amp;quot;I don't know whether it's conscious or not. I think people who are biased to the left and right are by and large honest people who bring their life experience to whatever their beliefs are. I don't think there's some conspiracy of bias to the left, ''but I do think that [[New York]] and [[Los Angeles]] have different views than many people that I know from other parts of the country.&amp;quot;'' &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/mediamix/2005-04-06-media-mix_x.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Fox Versus Obama ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Barack Hussein Obama]] has thin skin when it comes to criticism of his policies. The entire [[mainstream media]] has thrown its support to Obama and refuses to questions his policies. Fox News is the lone station that will criticize Obama fairly. Obama said, &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.newsmax.com/insidecover/media_critic_fox_news/2009/06/19/227121.html Media Critic: Fox Only Press Doing Its Job] NewsMax, June 19, 2009&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|  “I’ve got one television station that is entirely devoted to attacking my administration…That’s a pretty big megaphone. You’d be hard pressed if you watched the entire day to find a positive story about me on that front.” }}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Media critic David Zurawik said “Thank goodness at least one TV outlet, Fox, is questioning Team Obama as it pushes for the kind of massive change in American life not seen since the era of Franklin Roosevelt,” and &amp;quot;...ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CNBC and the others allow their news operations to be used by the White House for partisan political reasons.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Roger Ailes ==&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Rogerailes_1.jpg‎ |thumb|right|400px|Roger Ailes, Fox News CEO]]&lt;br /&gt;
[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,205966,00.html This is a transcript] of Ailes speaking to the Television Critics Association, which will be enlightening to readers digging into the Fox take on reporting and its reaction to controversy about its mission.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On November 20, 2008, [[Roger Ailes]], who now holds the titles of Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, FOX News and Chairman of FOX Television Stations, signed a new five year contract with News Corporation, it was announced by Rupert Murdoch, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. The contract will pay him over 23 million dollars in 2009. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/fnc/roger_ailes_signs_new_5year_deal_with_news_corp_101312.asp Ailes Inks 5 Year Deal With NewsCorp]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During Ailes' time with [[News Corporation|News Corp]], [[FNC]] passed [[CNN]] in ratings in all day parts in 2002 to become the number one news network in the country, nearing full distribution with more than 90 million subscribers. In 2007, he launched the [[Fox Business Channel]] which currently reaches more than 40 million homes and served as the biggest launch in cable television history. Throughout Mr. Ailes' tenure, FOX Television Stations has increased its market share each of the last three years with all time record shares in the last two years. In addition, Fox Television Stations has expanded its local news presence by nearly 100 hours a week in a challenging economic climate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|'''At a time when the broadcast networks are struggling with diminishing audiences and profits in news, he has built Fox News into the profit engine of the News Corporation. ''Fox News is believed to make more money than CNN, MSNBC and the evening newscasts of NBC, ABC and CBS combined.'' The division is on track to achieve $700 million in operating profit this year, according to analyst estimates.''' &amp;lt;small&amp;gt;--- The New York Times, 1/9/2010 &amp;lt;/small&amp;gt; &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/business/media/10ailes.html?pagewanted=all Ailes: Fox News Chief at the Pinnacle of Media and Politics ]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; }}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Tony Snow ==&lt;br /&gt;
In April, 2006 the [[White House]] selected [[Tony Snow]], Fox News Anchorman, to be the new White House Press Secretary. &amp;quot;Snow, who in his roles as a [[pundit]] on Fox News and elsewhere has rapped Bush on several occasions, joined the White House only after extracting a promise that he would become an adviser to the president on day-to-day strategy...the former columnist will be the first outsider to become part of Bush's revamped inner circle.&amp;quot;, said the [[Washington Post]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/26/AR2006042600558.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Snow, 50, worked most recently as host for ''Fox News Sunday, with Tony Snow'' and as host of his own radio talk show. He was a director of speech-writing for President [[George H.W. Bush]] and has worked as a [[USA Today]] columnist, Editorial Page Editor of the [[Washington Times]], deputy editorial page editor of the [[Detroit News]] and frequent substitute for radio host [[Rush Limbaugh]]. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/04/20060426.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Bill O'Reilly==&lt;br /&gt;
The [[O'Reilly Factor]] has been the most watched cable news segment for eight years. [[Bill O'Reilly]] has interviewed Barack Obama and other high profile guests on his show.&lt;br /&gt;
:&amp;quot;FOX News destroys NBC and CNN on cable every night. We cover the news. We don't ignore it. And we don't denigrate it.&amp;quot; - Bill O'Reilly&lt;br /&gt;
Bill O'Reilly is a registered independent, but sides with Republicans on most issues, excluding several Christian causes.  Bill O'Reilly wrote the best seller &amp;quot;A Bold Fresh Piece of Humanity.&amp;quot; Like [[Sean Hannity]] and other commentators on Fox, O'Reilly's role is that of an independent contractor, expressing his own opinions, not those of Fox News, as opposed to the networks news anchors, like Sheppard Smith.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Sarah Palin==&lt;br /&gt;
The network confirmed in January of 2010 that the former [[Alaska|Alaskan]] governor [[Sarah Palin]] had signed a multiyear contract to appear on the news station periodically. Potentially in a format similar to LtCol (ret) Oliver L. North's &amp;quot;War stories&amp;quot; documentary series. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/sarah-palin-to-contribute-to-fox-news/?scp=2&amp;amp;sq=Palin&amp;amp;st=cse&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Red Eye==&lt;br /&gt;
It is a hybrid news / comedic satire show hosted by Greg Gutfeld. The show appears on Fox News at 3:00 a.m. on weekdays. Their ratings are remarkable for the time slot. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.mediaite.com/online/red-eye-resurgence-more-demo-viewers-watch-fox-at-3am-than-cnn-at-8pm/ Red Eye Resurgence: More Demo Viewers Watch Fox At 3am Than CNN at 8pm, October 5th, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{cquote|&lt;br /&gt;
The ratings came out for September and Red Eye is up over 30% in total viewers and up 50% in the key demo (25-54) since July. They have more overall viewers than every CNBC show, every MSNBC show that is on before Hardball, most of HLN, and American Morning on CNN.}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External Links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.foxnews.com/ Fox News]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist|2}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Cable TV Networks]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservative Media]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservative news organizations]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:JDWpianist&amp;diff=760618</id>
		<title>User talk:JDWpianist</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:JDWpianist&amp;diff=760618"/>
		<updated>2010-03-08T09:28:46Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Welcome}} [[User:GFasten|GFasten]] 17:49, 16 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Usa new year 2010.jpg|240px]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 00:17, 31 December 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, welcome to CP, I'd reccomend writing something on your userpage in order to give you a blue name! [[User:GFasten|GFasten]] 18:01, 16 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for the tip. There's something preliminary there now. I hope to add more later. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 18:29, 16 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Welcome to Conservapedia! --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 09:15, 17 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: What are the images you need? You may use also [[Conservapedia:Image upload requests]]. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 16:09, 17 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks for the tip, and a belated thanks for the welcome! I happen to have a lot of musical examples for basic music theory, which I created on Sibelius notation software while I was a Teaching Assistant. I'll use the image upload request.[[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 17:35, 17 March 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== And now? ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Vienna]], thanks for the suggestion. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 23:40, 8 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:The new gallery looks great! And that's definitely the Stephansdom I know and love -- though the renovation on the tower finished very recently and it's looking even better now. You know, for Maundy Thursday, they pealed the bells at 7 p.m., it's a haunting, ancient sound.&lt;br /&gt;
:I was inspired by your additions to flesh out the article a lot more. Hope you enjoy it. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 17:51, 9 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Thanks again and [[Godspeed]]. --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 20:10, 18 April 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Conservapedia:Featured articles  ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Any proposal for new articles?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 20:01, 22 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: Thank you for your reply. We have material for a month; may be you will have then finished some articles to include. [[Godspeed]].    --[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 15:04, 24 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[[Clarinet]]==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Who first called it a 'licorice stick'? And what is the role of the clarinet in the [[big bands]] of the [[Big Band Era]]? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 17:24, 25 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think the &amp;quot;licorice stick&amp;quot; epithet came around just as big bands were becoming popular, in the '30s, though it's not clear if it can be traced to any one person. The clarinet was a big deal much earlier in New Orleans Jazz, where it played a mostly [[obbligato]] role (see also the page on [[heterophony]]). This role kind of morphed over into Big Band Jazz, where as a solo instrument it played lots of decoration over the main melody. The great soloists like [[Benny Goodman]] of course had a big part in shaping that. Later into the 40's, Ellington and Count Basie wrote some pieces with whole clarinet ensembles instead of saxophones, which gave it a special moody character.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hope that helps. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 17:34, 25 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes. Next question: What do you call the kind of [[broken chord]] which is indicated by a wavy line to the left of the notes? And how do you distinguish that from the typical arpeggio which is written out in, say, eighth notes (or as Bach did with the Well-Tempered Clavier Prelude #1, sixteenth notes)? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 18:20, 25 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::They're actually both called [[arpeggio]]s technically, but the wavy line is usually just called a roll (or rolled chord). Practically there aren't many situations where the two usages can be confused. I personally call an arpeggio with a distinct rhythm (like the Bach) a broken chord. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 18:28, 25 May 2009 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== The Nozze di Figaro Anonymous watercolour. ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Done.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Greetings.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 19:36, 22 December 2009 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Morality and ethics==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Can you help me distinguish between [[morality]] and [[ethics]]? I mean, not me personally ... let's write some articles together. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:46, 20 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(replying here, as your talk page is locked) I'd  be happy to do what I can, for what a musician's opinion is worth. I've moved our discussion around a little, since it was traversing many topics unrlated to Mulan. The relevant part is on [[Talk:Occult]], and the whole thing, including my reply, is now on [[Talk:Ethics]]. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]]  09:19, 21 January 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==[[Anthropogenic global warming theory]]==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hi, JDW. I have a question about something you said last month:&lt;br /&gt;
* too much polar ice will melt and raise the ocean levels&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Were you referring just to [[sea ice]], i.e., floating on the ocean - or to all ice at pole(s) including that on land? Recall that when an iceberg melts it has hardly any effect on sea level. One kilogram of ice displaces one liter of fresh water, and just about the same amount of salt water. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 12:32, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:That comment was a response to a picture that Jpatt uploaded, which showed that this year's temperatures for most of the globe were colder than the average of the previous 8 years. The one surprising exception was the polar ice caps, whose temperatures were clearly warmer this year than the average.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:So yes, the segment you just quoted was my understanding of the typical global warming argument, which seems to say that higher temperatures at the poles means a faster increase in sea levels. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding their position, but what I always hear from climatologists in the press is that polar temperatures are their main worry. Maybe you're right -- and I certainly hope that you are -- that polar ice melting would have little effect on sea level. I'm not qualified to judge the facts, but I do attempt to understand both sides, so as not to be duped by propaganda and misinformation. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 13:02, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::You mean like Phil Jones admitting to the [[BBC]] that there hasn't really  been any &amp;quot;[[global warming]]&amp;quot; whatsoever in the past 15 years? [http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/15/global-warming-insignificant-years-admits-uks-climate-scientist/] That kind of being duped?  Or the kind of misinformation like the southern pole rapidly losing ice, but that studies show is rapidly gaining ice in most areas other than the Ross shelf?  --&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;/Admin&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:57, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Hey, TK, go easy on my fellow musician! --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] &amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 15:59, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I will be certain not to confuse other users with the facts, Professor Poor! But I do enjoy music of all kinds!  ;-) --&amp;lt;big&amp;gt;[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]&amp;lt;/big&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;/Admin&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 16:02, 16 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Thanks for the link, TK, but to be fair one should compare that article with Jones' [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8511670.stm original BBC interview], and decide for themselves which is more convincing.  But I didn't come here to debate climate change, merely to answer EdPoor's question about what I meant on a talk page last month.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::If you're as interested in music as I am writing musical articles, keep your eyes peeled for a couple of new ones in the coming weeks - I'm studying for oral exams, and plan to upload the results of my recent reading for the edification of CP's target audience. [[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 07:53, 17 February 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Mannheim rocket ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
That made my day.  When I saw your reference to the &amp;quot;Mannheim rocket&amp;quot; this afternoon, I wondered what it could possibly be.  I knew that Mozart admired the Mannheim orchestra, and in particular their use of clarinets.  Then you put up the example.  The G minor symphony!!  '''That''' was an example of the Mannheim rocket!  Awesome.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Best wishes on Chopin's birthday.  (Though I have to admit he's not among my favorite composers.  I'm still on a high from January 27th.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:SamHB|SamHB]] 00:00, 2 March 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks for the message. It's nice to know that other users are learning from my contributions! You're right, these concepts need musical examples in order to make sense, but once you know what they are, you see them all over the place in Mozart and Beethoven. I'll be adding a couple more examples in the next day or so.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yeah, I'm more a fan of Viennese classics myself, but as a pianist have a special relationship with Chopin. You ought to give some of his more sophisticated works a listen though, like the F-Minor Fantasy or the Ballades. The Fantasie-Polonaise is also great. I find that people who love Mozart usually come around to have an appreciation for Chopin as well, as they're similar in more ways than it seems at first. At any rate, yesterday was an important milestone, definitely deserving of a more fleshed-out article here than there was before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Thanks again for the encouraging comment, and all the best.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:JDWpianist|JDWpianist]] 09:31, 2 March 2010 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Lost page ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Saw that you had rewritten my edit on the Lost page regarding to its plot. I think your rewrite is much better than what I wrote. It reads very well now.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Europe&amp;diff=759669</id>
		<title>Europe</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Europe&amp;diff=759669"/>
		<updated>2010-03-05T14:28:06Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{| border=&amp;quot;1&amp;quot; align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot; width=&amp;quot;300&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;margin-left:5px&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|align=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot;|[[Image:Europe pol 2004.jpg|300px]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; align=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;color: white; height: 30px; background: maroon no-repeat scroll top left;&amp;quot;|Europe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Area&lt;br /&gt;
| 4,066,281 square miles&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Coastline&lt;br /&gt;
| 50,000 square miles&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Highest point&lt;br /&gt;
| Mt. Elbrus, 18,481 feet&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Lowest point&lt;br /&gt;
| Shoreline of Caspian Sea, 92 feet below sea level&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Longest river&lt;br /&gt;
| Volga, 2,330 miles &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|Countries&lt;br /&gt;
|Approximately 50&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Europe''' is the western part of the [[continent]]al landmass of Eurasia, consisting of the general area between the [[Ural Mountains]] and the [[Atlantic Ocean]]. With an area of 3,998,000 square miles it ranks as the second-smallest of the continents, but in terms of population (727,000,000 in 2007) it is the third-largest. Europe is made up of approximately 50 countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Long a center of culture, art, philosophy, warfare, invention and government, Europe was the birthplace of [[classical liberalism]]; the [[Renaissance]]; the springboard of the great age of exploration; and the beginnings of the industrial age.  Several major empires inhabited the continent: [[Ancient Greece|Greece]], [[Roman Empire|Rome]], [[Byzantine Empire|Byzantium]], the [[Ottoman Empire|Ottomans]], the Austrian,  the French, the German, and the British] each producing great achievements, as well as fighting huge wars which have shaped the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Politically, most countries in the region are part of the [[European Union]], with Switzerland and Norway being notable exceptions, (EU), and (separately), most are part of the [[NATO]] military alliance.  The EU is slowly becoming a power in its own right, especially in economic affairs.  NATO has been the world's dominant military force, in large part because it is basically controlled by the United States.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In recent years conservative parties have dominated in Europe, as typified by President [[Nicolas Sarkozy]] of France and chancellor [[Angela Merkel]] of Germany.  Europe’s center-right parties have embraced many ideas associated with the left in the United States: generous welfare benefits, nationalized health care, sharp restrictions on carbon emissions, the ceding of some sovereignty to the European Union. But they have won elections by promising more efficiently than the left-wing parties, while working to lower taxes, improve financial regulation, and grapple with ageing populations. They have supported the United States in Afghanistan, participating heavily in the International Security Assistance Force. In general, labour unions are tied to the left in Europe and have the image of inefficiency and selfishness.  &amp;quot;Green&amp;quot; parties, emphasizing environmentalism, have drained off much of the younger leftist.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Steven Erlanger, &amp;quot;In Bad Times for Capitalism, Socialists in Europe Suffer,&amp;quot; [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29socialism.html?ref=world ''New York Times'' Sept. 29, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Europe is generally a highly secularized continent containing many of the most atheistic countries in the world.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Land==&lt;br /&gt;
There is no overall consensus over the eastern boundary of Europe, given that it is not a continent in the same sense as the others, given that it is not a distinct tectonic plate. However, one of the most commonly suggested eastern borders is that of the Ural Mountains, a chain running north-south in present-day Russia.  The Caucasus, another mountain chain between the Black and Caspian Seas, forms the southern land boundary.  Its remaining boundaries are coastlines; the Arctic Ocean, the North and Norwegian Seas, the Atlantic Ocean, and Mediterranean Sea.  The northernmost point on the mainland is Cape Nordkinn, Norway; the southernmost in Spain at Punta de Tarifa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Climate===&lt;br /&gt;
Cool winters and mild summers are typical of the climate in northern Europe, the result of the warm currents brought by the warm North Atlantic Drift as well as prevailing westerly winds.  The climate of southern Europe is Mediterranean, usually hot in summer, with most rainfall taking place in winter.  A colder climate begins in central Poland eastward, typified by drier conditions and, especially in Russia, severely-cold winters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Drainage===&lt;br /&gt;
The major rivers in western Europe originate in the mountain ranges of central Europe.  The Rhine, Rhone, Elbe, Seine and Vistula flow from the Alps and the Balkans northward, emptying into the English Channel, North and Baltic seas; the Po and Rubicon rivers flow into the Mediterranean Sea, while the [[Danube]] flows into the Black Sea.  Long a navigable river, the [[Danube]] is further connected via locks and canals to the Rhine, ensuring a centuries-long free flow of commerce from both sides of Europe into the interior.  In eastern Europe the major rivers flow towards the south, emptying in the Black and Caspian seas; among them are the Dnepr, Donets, and Volga. With the exception of the Mediterranean rivers, all European rivers have an even rate of flow as a result of an even spread of yearly precipitation; the faster-flowing rivers, particularly in the mountain highlands and Scandinavia, also aid in the production of hydroelectric power for home and industry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Flora===&lt;br /&gt;
Forests covered a large part of Europe as late as the 19th century, but human activities have cleared many areas for farming.  Still, a large amount of forested land remains, as well as those acres that have been re-planted or re-grown after human abandonment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A mixed coniferous-deciduous belt dominates a vegetation zone across the central portion of the continent from east to west, characterized by oak, elm and maple mingled with fir and pine.  Spruce and pine dominate inland northern Europe as a result of cool, but mild temperatures.  Tundra is characteristic of the Arctic land regions, consisting of shrubs, wild flowers, lichens and mosses.  To the east is the European Plain, an expanse of prairie grass which gives way to the Ukrainian steppe and its short grasses of a drier climate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Fauna===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Three-happy-bears.jpg|thumb|280px|Russian bears]]&lt;br /&gt;
The lakes and rivers support an abundance of fish, including trout and salmon, while the coastal areas and inland seas support tuna, sardines, sturgeon, cod, haddock, halibut, and many others.  Birds are widespread as well, including eagles, storks, ravens, and seabirds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although there are many mammal species on the continent (deer, lemmings, beaver, etc), they have been hard hit as a result of man's long occupation in Europe.  The once common brown bear (''Ursus arctos'') is now restricted to isolated pockets of the Pyrenees and the far north of Scandinavia. The wisent (''Bison bonasus''), the largest mammal on the continent, has been over-hunted so extensively that only a few managed herds survive in central Poland, while a relative, the larger aurochs (''Bos primigenius'') was killed off by 1627.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Mineral [[resources]]===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Coal is found extensively in Britain, Spain, France, the Ruhr of Germany, Belgium, Poland, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, and the Ukraine.  Oil and natural gas deposits lie throughout Europe, with the two most important regions within Russia and the North Sea.  Nickel, tin, bauxite, copper, lead, gypsum, manganese, lead, and iron ore have been mined extensively and traded.  Marble, such as that from Carrera, Italy, is used in monumental architecture and statuary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Arable land===&lt;br /&gt;
Countries in Europe with the largest percentage of arable land include the United Kingdom, France, Denmark, and the Netherlands, all of which have large areas of plains despite also having a large amount of highlands (in addition, the Netherlands has much land re-claimed from the sea).  In addition, nearly half of western Europe has arable land.  Norway, Sweden, Finland, and northern Russia have limited amounts of arable land by comparison, due to a restricted growing season at high latitudes as well as extreme cold.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==People==&lt;br /&gt;
It is conjectured that the first humans migrated into Europe in several waves, either from Asia Minor across the Bosporus and into the Balkan region, or from Asia by way of the steppes.  River barriers, mountains, and forested lands help to divide early Europeans into distinct groups, and by about 4000 B.C. humans were well-established.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Ethnic groups===&lt;br /&gt;
A large number of diverse ethnic groups live on the continent.  Several of the European nations are composed of one predominant ethnic group, i.e. Greeks in Greece, Spanish in Spain.  Several of these countries have a distinctive minority, such as the Laplanders of northern Norway and Finland.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Languages===&lt;br /&gt;
The vast majority of the languages spoken on the European continent come from the [[Indo-European]] language family. Within this category, the three largest European branches are the [[Romance]] (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian); [[Germanic]] (German, English, Danish, Dutch, Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic); and [[Slavic]] (Russian, Bulgarian, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Slovenian, Macedonian, Serbo-Croatian).  Other languages include Celtic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Welsh, Breton), Baltic (Latvian, Lithuanian), Greek and Albanian, as well as languages within the Finno-Ugric group (Hungarian, Finnish, Estonian).  Turkish is spoken in the European portion of Turkey. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several of the European languages were spread world-wide over the past five hundred years as a result of trade, colonization, or political/military power; as a result, French, English, Spanish, and German are second languages for many people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Religion===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Caravaggio Ecce Homo.JPG|thumb|Cece Homo by [[Caravaggio]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
The dominant religion in Europe is Christianity, with the Roman Catholic Church the largest single denomination, forming a major part of the lives of people in France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, and Poland. The Protestants are several churches which originally broke away from the Catholic Church at the beginning of the 16th century, the first being the Lutheran Church. Members of Protestant denominations form the majority in Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, and the United Kingdom. The third major Christian group is Eastern Orthodoxy, mainly in eastern Europe, of which the Greek and Russian denominations are well known.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Europe is a very secularized and socialized continent.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/02/europe-the-dark-continent/ Europe: The Dark Continent]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
====Muslims====&lt;br /&gt;
About 15 million Muslims now live in Europe, 3% of the population. They are highly diverse in terms of ethnicity and language; about half practice religion. About half are citizens of the countries in which they live. Economic poverty  and limited opportunity is striking for the Muslims of France; where riots have occurred periodically. Islam is the dominant religion in the Balkan countries of Albania and Kosovo as well as the slice of Turkey in Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Culture and Education===&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Liszt-1870.jpg|thumb|[[Franz Liszt]] in 1870.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Europe has long and rich cultural history, which produced many outstanding works in painting, sculpture, architecture, dance, music, and literature; among the great masters are [[Leonardo da Vinci]], [[Michaelangelo]], [[Raphael]], [[Vincent Van Gogh]], Mozart, Brahms, Alexander Dumas, [[Charles Dickens]], and many others.  [[Paris]], Vienna, [[London]], Rome, Madrid, [[Florence]], and other European capitals became havens where art flourished and expanded. Institutions of learning also grew, with several, such as Oxford and Cambridge, becoming well-known world-wide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Demography===&lt;br /&gt;
Migration and differential birth and death rates have resulted in a shifting in population distribution over periods of time.  By 400 A.D. the bulk of the population was along the Mediterranean coastline; today the interior and north-central Europe has the majority of population density.  The average life expectancy for Europeans is 75 years, despite a population decrease attributed to a low birth rate of 10.2 births per 1,000 people (2005). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Economy and Commerce==&lt;br /&gt;
===Industry===&lt;br /&gt;
The Industrial Revolution began in Europe during the late 18th century, and since then Europe has become a leading exporter of manufactured goods. Textiles and clothing, ships, motor vehicles, aircraft, railroads, are among the items produced, and since World War II high-technology and electronic items were added. Manufacturing is particularly concentrated in central Europe, and in European Russia and Ukraine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Agriculture===&lt;br /&gt;
European farmers produce a mixed variety of crops yearly, with wheat producing the largest yield, especially within the Ukraine.  Other crops include barley, oats, rye, corn, potatoes, beets, beans, peas, and sugar beets.  Southern Europe is noted for the production of grapes for the wine industry, olives, pistachio nuts, and citrus fruits; the first two (grapes and olives) have become important to the identity as well as the economy of the countries which produce them.  Animal production includes beef (especially in Spain), pigs, goats, and poultry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Forestry===&lt;br /&gt;
The main sources of wood for construction and other products come from the northern European forests of Scandinavia, Finland, and Russia; southern Europe, with less forested acreage, is known primarily as a producer of cork. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Fishing===&lt;br /&gt;
Fishing is very important to northern European countries; access to the cold waters of the North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans enable a large harvest of cod, char, herring and flatfish yearly.  All coastal countries engage in commercial fishing to some degree, and two, Italy and Greece, have fishing traditions which date to ancient times.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Transportation===&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Tour Eiffel.jpg|thumb|220px|Tour Eiffel from underneath.]]&lt;br /&gt;
The Vikings have traded extensively via the waterways and river systems of northern Europe, while in the south the Danube and Mediterranean was used.  Today, large fleets of ships are maintained by several countries which import and export a great deal of goods, and have transformed many coastal cities into major sea ports.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Highways and roads are well-established and maintained; Germany's famous Autobahns providing the example, and in addition to trade via trucks a large number of Europeans own automobiles.  Railways carrying passengers and freight criss-cross the continent; France's TGV is among the fastest trains in the world, and the &amp;quot;Orient Express&amp;quot;, made famous by an Agatha Christie novel, still makes its fabled run from Paris to [[Istanbul]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All European countries have a national airline (KLM, Lufthansa, British Airways, etc) that maintain routes world-wide. The Airbus Corporation competes with Boeing in the manufacture of large-bodied passenger aircraft.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Trade===&lt;br /&gt;
International and intercontinental trade on a large scale is conducted by nearly all European countries, with the Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, and the United Kingdom among the largest trading nations in the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
====Early humans====&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Europe ref04.jpg|thumb|300 px|Shaded relief map of Europe]]&lt;br /&gt;
It was during the late Paleolithic that humans arrived on the continent, and although of a hunter-gatherer stock they left behind examples of their art, most notably the cave paintings in Spain and France with their highly-decorated murals of extinct animals.  As these hunters settled down by the Neolithic period, they had learned to farm, and by roughly 6000 B.C. farming had spread across most of the continent.  With farming came a more settled life, and towns were created, with the Starčevo and Danubian cultures in the Balkans, and Sesklo and Dimini in Thessaly.  Trade in metals (copper, tin) resulted in the creation of bronze by about 4000 B.C.; amber marked its appearence as a precious stone in trade from the Baltic.  Elaborate burials were becoming common, especially of aristocrats or royalty; during this time as well humans were organized into societies that resulted in the construction of the megaliths, of which [[Stonehenge]] is the best known example. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No clear definition exists for the origin of the Indo-European languages.  Some scholars theorize that it came across the plains north of the Black Sea with a kurgan culture around 2500 B.C.  According to the theory, the first such kurgan invasion was successful in the Balkans, where it spread to central Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====First Civilizations====&lt;br /&gt;
The island of Crete in the Aegean was the first to have a major civilization in Europe.  Named after King Minos of Greek mythology, the Minoan Civilization had its capital at Knossos; the ruins excavated in the early 20th century by British archaeologist Arthur Evans indicate a well-developed society, capable of extensive trade by sea, which effectively controlled the Aegean by 1600 B.C.  By then the first tellings of the Mycenaean Civilization appeared on mainland Greece.  These ancient Greeks may have been Indo-Europeans from the Balkans, and have been in conflict with the Minoans, who simply vanish from the historical record by 1400 B.C. (this may be due to the eruption of Thera, a volcano to the north of Crete, about 1450 B.C., which may have caused a tsunami to strike Crete; physical evidence on Crete indicates a massive, catastrophic explosion).  By 1200 B.C. the Mycenaeans themselves were almost destroyed, by warfare and earthquakes.  In the years following, the Greeks began to fashion new tools and weapons from iron.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== See also ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Europa]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Architecture]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/europe.htm Europe]&lt;br /&gt;
==Further reading==&lt;br /&gt;
===Reference===&lt;br /&gt;
* DeWald, Jonathan, ed. ''Europe 1450 to 1789: Encyclopedia of the Early Modern World'' (6 vol. 2003), 3200pp; 1100 articles by experts.&lt;br /&gt;
* Merriman, John, and Jay Winter, eds. ''Europe 1789 to 1914: Encyclopedia of the Age of Industry and Empire'' (5 vol 2006). &lt;br /&gt;
* Merriman, John, and Jay Winter, eds. ''Europe - Since 1914 - Encyclopedia of the Age of War and Reconstruction'' (5 vol 2005), 3100 pp. 920 articles by experts&lt;br /&gt;
===Guides===&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Europe'' (Eyewitness Travel Guides) by Dan Colwell (2003)[http://www.amazon.com/Europe-Eyewitness-Travel-Guides-Colwell/dp/0789497301/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226617&amp;amp;sr=1-2 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''The Rough Guide to Europe on a Budget'' (2008)[http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Europe-Budget-Travel-Guides/dp/1843539942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226617&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Frommer's Eastern Europe'' by Dr. Ryan James et al. (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Eastern-Europe-Complete/dp/0470399082/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226617&amp;amp;sr=1-10 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
*  ''MTV Europe'' by Lauren Berger et al. (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/MTV-Europe-Guides-Lauren-Berger/dp/0764584995/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226824&amp;amp;sr=1-19 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* '' Central Europe'' by Lisa Dunford et al. (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Central-Europe-Multi-Country-Guide/dp/1741049997/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226824&amp;amp;sr=1-20 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Western Europe'' by Ryan ver Berkmoes (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Western-Europe-Multi-Country-Guide/dp/1741049172/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226824&amp;amp;sr=1-23 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Rick Steves' Best of Europe 2010'' by Rick Steves (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Rick-Steves-Best-Europe-2010/dp/1598802828/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226975&amp;amp;sr=1-32  excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Surveys and textbooks===&lt;br /&gt;
* Beazley, Mitchell. ''From the Dark Ages to the Renaissance: 700 - 1599 AD'' (2003)&lt;br /&gt;
* Bispham, Edward. ''Roman Europe: 1000 BC - AD 400'' (Short Oxford History of Europe) (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Europe-Short-Oxford-History/dp/0199266018/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220635&amp;amp;sr=1-10 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Buchanan, Tom. ''Europe's Troubled Peace: 1945 - 2000'' (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/Europes-Troubled-Peace-Blackwell-History/dp/0631221638/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226547&amp;amp;sr=1-5 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Davies, Norman. ''Europe - A History'' (1998). [http://www.amazon.com/Europe-History-Norman-Davies/dp/0060974680/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254227637&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Eichengreen, Barry. ''The European Economy since 1945: Coordinated Capitalism and Beyond'' (2008) [http://www.amazon.com/European-Economy-since-1945-Coordinated/dp/0691138486/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226547&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search], advanced economics&lt;br /&gt;
* Hollister, C. Warren, and Judith Bennett. ''Medieval Europe: A Short History'' (2005) [http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Europe-History-C-Warren-Hollister/dp/0071244239/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220835&amp;amp;sr=1-23 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Judt, Tony. '' Postwar: A History of Europe Since 1945‎'' (2006) - 933 pages [http://books.google.com/books?id=10oPnprPjcgC&amp;amp;dq=intitle:history+intitle:of+intitle:europe&amp;amp;lr=&amp;amp;as_drrb_is=b&amp;amp;as_minm_is=0&amp;amp;as_miny_is=2002&amp;amp;as_maxm_is=0&amp;amp;as_maxy_is=2009&amp;amp;num=30&amp;amp;as_brr=3 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Kerr, Gordon. ''A Short History of Europe: From Charlemagne to the Treaty of Lisbon'' (2009), 160pp&lt;br /&gt;
* Kishlansky, Mark, et al. ''A Brief History of Western Civilization: The Unfinished Legacy'' (2 vol. 2006) , widely used textbook; numerous editions&lt;br /&gt;
* McEvedy, Colin, and David Woodroffe. ''The New Penguin Atlas of Recent History: Europe Since 1815'' (2003) [http://www.amazon.com/New-Penguin-Atlas-Recent-History/dp/0140515046/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220635&amp;amp;sr=1-7 excertp and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* McKay, John P. et al. ''Western Society: A Brief History:  (2 vol 2009), widely used textbook; numerous editions&lt;br /&gt;
* Mazower, Mark. ''Dark Continent: Europe's Twentieth Century'' (2000) [http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Continent-Europes-Twentieth-Century/dp/067975704X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226466&amp;amp;sr=1-2 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Merriman, John. ''A History of Modern Europe, From the Renaissance to the Present'' (2nd ed. 2004) [http://www.amazon.com/History-Modern-Europe-Second-One/dp/0393979105/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220931&amp;amp;sr=1-27 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Milward, Alan S., and S. B. Saul. ''Development of the Economies of Continental Europe 1850-1914'' (1977)&lt;br /&gt;
* Sherman, Dennis. ''Western Civilization: Sources, Images, and Interpretations, from the Renaissance to the Present'' (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/Western-Civilization-Sources-Interpretations-Renaissance/dp/0073513245/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254221546&amp;amp;sr=1-15 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Spielvogel, Jackson J. ''Western Civilization'' (2008); widely used textbook; numerous editions &lt;br /&gt;
* Wiesner-Hanks, Merry E. ''Early Modern Europe, 1450-1789'' (2006), stress on [[social history]] [http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Europe-1450-1789-Cambridge-History/dp/0521005213/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220635&amp;amp;sr=1-4 excerpt and text search] &lt;br /&gt;
* Wasserstein, Bernard. ''Barbarism and civilization: a history of Europe in our time‎'' (2007) 901 pages [http://books.google.com/books?id=_utII6-EarIC&amp;amp;dq=intitle:history+intitle:of+intitle:europe&amp;amp;lr=&amp;amp;as_drrb_is=b&amp;amp;as_minm_is=0&amp;amp;as_miny_is=1990&amp;amp;as_maxm_is=0&amp;amp;as_maxy_is=2009&amp;amp;num=30&amp;amp;as_brr=3 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Continents]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:European History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Europe&amp;diff=759668</id>
		<title>Europe</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Europe&amp;diff=759668"/>
		<updated>2010-03-05T14:27:10Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Added that Europe is made up of 50 countries&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{| border=&amp;quot;1&amp;quot; align=&amp;quot;right&amp;quot; cellpadding=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; cellspacing=&amp;quot;0&amp;quot; width=&amp;quot;300&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;margin-left:5px&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|align=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot; colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot;|[[Image:Europe pol 2004.jpg|300px]]&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
!colspan=&amp;quot;2&amp;quot; align=&amp;quot;center&amp;quot; style=&amp;quot;color: white; height: 30px; background: maroon no-repeat scroll top left;&amp;quot;|Europe&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Area&lt;br /&gt;
| 4,066,281 square miles&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Coastline&lt;br /&gt;
| 50,000 square miles&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Highest point&lt;br /&gt;
| Mt. Elbrus, 18,481 feet&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Lowest point&lt;br /&gt;
| Shoreline of Caspian Sea, 92 feet below sea level&lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
| Longest river&lt;br /&gt;
| Volga, 2,330 miles &lt;br /&gt;
|-&lt;br /&gt;
|}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Europe''' is the western part of the [[continent]]al landmass of Eurasia, consisting of the general area between the [[Ural Mountains]] and the [[Atlantic Ocean]]. With an area of 3,998,000 square miles it ranks as the second-smallest of the continents, but in terms of population (727,000,000 in 2007) it is the third-largest. Europe is made up of approximately 50 countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Long a center of culture, art, philosophy, warfare, invention and government, Europe was the birthplace of [[classical liberalism]]; the [[Renaissance]]; the springboard of the great age of exploration; and the beginnings of the industrial age.  Several major empires inhabited the continent: [[Ancient Greece|Greece]], [[Roman Empire|Rome]], [[Byzantine Empire|Byzantium]], the [[Ottoman Empire|Ottomans]], the Austrian,  the French, the German, and the British] each producing great achievements, as well as fighting huge wars which have shaped the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Politically, most countries in the region are part of the [[European Union]], with Switzerland and Norway being notable exceptions, (EU), and (separately), most are part of the [[NATO]] military alliance.  The EU is slowly becoming a power in its own right, especially in economic affairs.  NATO has been the world's dominant military force, in large part because it is basically controlled by the United States.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In recent years conservative parties have dominated in Europe, as typified by President [[Nicolas Sarkozy]] of France and chancellor [[Angela Merkel]] of Germany.  Europe’s center-right parties have embraced many ideas associated with the left in the United States: generous welfare benefits, nationalized health care, sharp restrictions on carbon emissions, the ceding of some sovereignty to the European Union. But they have won elections by promising more efficiently than the left-wing parties, while working to lower taxes, improve financial regulation, and grapple with ageing populations. They have supported the United States in Afghanistan, participating heavily in the International Security Assistance Force. In general, labour unions are tied to the left in Europe and have the image of inefficiency and selfishness.  &amp;quot;Green&amp;quot; parties, emphasizing environmentalism, have drained off much of the younger leftist.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Steven Erlanger, &amp;quot;In Bad Times for Capitalism, Socialists in Europe Suffer,&amp;quot; [http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/29/world/europe/29socialism.html?ref=world ''New York Times'' Sept. 29, 2009]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Europe is generally a highly secularized continent containing many of the most atheistic countries in the world.&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Land==&lt;br /&gt;
There is no overall consensus over the eastern boundary of Europe, given that it is not a continent in the same sense as the others, given that it is not a distinct tectonic plate. However, one of the most commonly suggested eastern borders is that of the Ural Mountains, a chain running north-south in present-day Russia.  The Caucasus, another mountain chain between the Black and Caspian Seas, forms the southern land boundary.  Its remaining boundaries are coastlines; the Arctic Ocean, the North and Norwegian Seas, the Atlantic Ocean, and Mediterranean Sea.  The northernmost point on the mainland is Cape Nordkinn, Norway; the southernmost in Spain at Punta de Tarifa.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Climate===&lt;br /&gt;
Cool winters and mild summers are typical of the climate in northern Europe, the result of the warm currents brought by the warm North Atlantic Drift as well as prevailing westerly winds.  The climate of southern Europe is Mediterranean, usually hot in summer, with most rainfall taking place in winter.  A colder climate begins in central Poland eastward, typified by drier conditions and, especially in Russia, severely-cold winters.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Drainage===&lt;br /&gt;
The major rivers in western Europe originate in the mountain ranges of central Europe.  The Rhine, Rhone, Elbe, Seine and Vistula flow from the Alps and the Balkans northward, emptying into the English Channel, North and Baltic seas; the Po and Rubicon rivers flow into the Mediterranean Sea, while the [[Danube]] flows into the Black Sea.  Long a navigable river, the [[Danube]] is further connected via locks and canals to the Rhine, ensuring a centuries-long free flow of commerce from both sides of Europe into the interior.  In eastern Europe the major rivers flow towards the south, emptying in the Black and Caspian seas; among them are the Dnepr, Donets, and Volga. With the exception of the Mediterranean rivers, all European rivers have an even rate of flow as a result of an even spread of yearly precipitation; the faster-flowing rivers, particularly in the mountain highlands and Scandinavia, also aid in the production of hydroelectric power for home and industry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Flora===&lt;br /&gt;
Forests covered a large part of Europe as late as the 19th century, but human activities have cleared many areas for farming.  Still, a large amount of forested land remains, as well as those acres that have been re-planted or re-grown after human abandonment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A mixed coniferous-deciduous belt dominates a vegetation zone across the central portion of the continent from east to west, characterized by oak, elm and maple mingled with fir and pine.  Spruce and pine dominate inland northern Europe as a result of cool, but mild temperatures.  Tundra is characteristic of the Arctic land regions, consisting of shrubs, wild flowers, lichens and mosses.  To the east is the European Plain, an expanse of prairie grass which gives way to the Ukrainian steppe and its short grasses of a drier climate.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Fauna===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Three-happy-bears.jpg|thumb|280px|Russian bears]]&lt;br /&gt;
The lakes and rivers support an abundance of fish, including trout and salmon, while the coastal areas and inland seas support tuna, sardines, sturgeon, cod, haddock, halibut, and many others.  Birds are widespread as well, including eagles, storks, ravens, and seabirds.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although there are many mammal species on the continent (deer, lemmings, beaver, etc), they have been hard hit as a result of man's long occupation in Europe.  The once common brown bear (''Ursus arctos'') is now restricted to isolated pockets of the Pyrenees and the far north of Scandinavia. The wisent (''Bison bonasus''), the largest mammal on the continent, has been over-hunted so extensively that only a few managed herds survive in central Poland, while a relative, the larger aurochs (''Bos primigenius'') was killed off by 1627.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Mineral [[resources]]===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Coal is found extensively in Britain, Spain, France, the Ruhr of Germany, Belgium, Poland, Slovakia, the Czech Republic, and the Ukraine.  Oil and natural gas deposits lie throughout Europe, with the two most important regions within Russia and the North Sea.  Nickel, tin, bauxite, copper, lead, gypsum, manganese, lead, and iron ore have been mined extensively and traded.  Marble, such as that from Carrera, Italy, is used in monumental architecture and statuary.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Arable land===&lt;br /&gt;
Countries in Europe with the largest percentage of arable land include the United Kingdom, France, Denmark, and the Netherlands, all of which have large areas of plains despite also having a large amount of highlands (in addition, the Netherlands has much land re-claimed from the sea).  In addition, nearly half of western Europe has arable land.  Norway, Sweden, Finland, and northern Russia have limited amounts of arable land by comparison, due to a restricted growing season at high latitudes as well as extreme cold.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==People==&lt;br /&gt;
It is conjectured that the first humans migrated into Europe in several waves, either from Asia Minor across the Bosporus and into the Balkan region, or from Asia by way of the steppes.  River barriers, mountains, and forested lands help to divide early Europeans into distinct groups, and by about 4000 B.C. humans were well-established.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Ethnic groups===&lt;br /&gt;
A large number of diverse ethnic groups live on the continent.  Several of the European nations are composed of one predominant ethnic group, i.e. Greeks in Greece, Spanish in Spain.  Several of these countries have a distinctive minority, such as the Laplanders of northern Norway and Finland.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Languages===&lt;br /&gt;
The vast majority of the languages spoken on the European continent come from the [[Indo-European]] language family. Within this category, the three largest European branches are the [[Romance]] (Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian); [[Germanic]] (German, English, Danish, Dutch, Swedish, Norwegian, Icelandic); and [[Slavic]] (Russian, Bulgarian, Polish, Czech, Slovak, Slovenian, Macedonian, Serbo-Croatian).  Other languages include Celtic (Irish, Scottish Gaelic, Welsh, Breton), Baltic (Latvian, Lithuanian), Greek and Albanian, as well as languages within the Finno-Ugric group (Hungarian, Finnish, Estonian).  Turkish is spoken in the European portion of Turkey. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Several of the European languages were spread world-wide over the past five hundred years as a result of trade, colonization, or political/military power; as a result, French, English, Spanish, and German are second languages for many people.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Religion===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Caravaggio Ecce Homo.JPG|thumb|Cece Homo by [[Caravaggio]].]]&lt;br /&gt;
The dominant religion in Europe is Christianity, with the Roman Catholic Church the largest single denomination, forming a major part of the lives of people in France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Ireland, and Poland. The Protestants are several churches which originally broke away from the Catholic Church at the beginning of the 16th century, the first being the Lutheran Church. Members of Protestant denominations form the majority in Germany, the Netherlands, Scandinavia, and the United Kingdom. The third major Christian group is Eastern Orthodoxy, mainly in eastern Europe, of which the Greek and Russian denominations are well known.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Europe is a very secularized and socialized continent.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.intellectualconservative.com/2008/05/02/europe-the-dark-continent/ Europe: The Dark Continent]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
====Muslims====&lt;br /&gt;
About 15 million Muslims now live in Europe, 3% of the population. They are highly diverse in terms of ethnicity and language; about half practice religion. About half are citizens of the countries in which they live. Economic poverty  and limited opportunity is striking for the Muslims of France; where riots have occurred periodically. Islam is the dominant religion in the Balkan countries of Albania and Kosovo as well as the slice of Turkey in Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Culture and Education===&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Liszt-1870.jpg|thumb|[[Franz Liszt]] in 1870.]]&lt;br /&gt;
Europe has long and rich cultural history, which produced many outstanding works in painting, sculpture, architecture, dance, music, and literature; among the great masters are [[Leonardo da Vinci]], [[Michaelangelo]], [[Raphael]], [[Vincent Van Gogh]], Mozart, Brahms, Alexander Dumas, [[Charles Dickens]], and many others.  [[Paris]], Vienna, [[London]], Rome, Madrid, [[Florence]], and other European capitals became havens where art flourished and expanded. Institutions of learning also grew, with several, such as Oxford and Cambridge, becoming well-known world-wide.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Demography===&lt;br /&gt;
Migration and differential birth and death rates have resulted in a shifting in population distribution over periods of time.  By 400 A.D. the bulk of the population was along the Mediterranean coastline; today the interior and north-central Europe has the majority of population density.  The average life expectancy for Europeans is 75 years, despite a population decrease attributed to a low birth rate of 10.2 births per 1,000 people (2005). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Economy and Commerce==&lt;br /&gt;
===Industry===&lt;br /&gt;
The Industrial Revolution began in Europe during the late 18th century, and since then Europe has become a leading exporter of manufactured goods. Textiles and clothing, ships, motor vehicles, aircraft, railroads, are among the items produced, and since World War II high-technology and electronic items were added. Manufacturing is particularly concentrated in central Europe, and in European Russia and Ukraine.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Agriculture===&lt;br /&gt;
European farmers produce a mixed variety of crops yearly, with wheat producing the largest yield, especially within the Ukraine.  Other crops include barley, oats, rye, corn, potatoes, beets, beans, peas, and sugar beets.  Southern Europe is noted for the production of grapes for the wine industry, olives, pistachio nuts, and citrus fruits; the first two (grapes and olives) have become important to the identity as well as the economy of the countries which produce them.  Animal production includes beef (especially in Spain), pigs, goats, and poultry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Forestry===&lt;br /&gt;
The main sources of wood for construction and other products come from the northern European forests of Scandinavia, Finland, and Russia; southern Europe, with less forested acreage, is known primarily as a producer of cork. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Fishing===&lt;br /&gt;
Fishing is very important to northern European countries; access to the cold waters of the North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans enable a large harvest of cod, char, herring and flatfish yearly.  All coastal countries engage in commercial fishing to some degree, and two, Italy and Greece, have fishing traditions which date to ancient times.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Transportation===&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Tour Eiffel.jpg|thumb|220px|Tour Eiffel from underneath.]]&lt;br /&gt;
The Vikings have traded extensively via the waterways and river systems of northern Europe, while in the south the Danube and Mediterranean was used.  Today, large fleets of ships are maintained by several countries which import and export a great deal of goods, and have transformed many coastal cities into major sea ports.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Highways and roads are well-established and maintained; Germany's famous Autobahns providing the example, and in addition to trade via trucks a large number of Europeans own automobiles.  Railways carrying passengers and freight criss-cross the continent; France's TGV is among the fastest trains in the world, and the &amp;quot;Orient Express&amp;quot;, made famous by an Agatha Christie novel, still makes its fabled run from Paris to [[Istanbul]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
All European countries have a national airline (KLM, Lufthansa, British Airways, etc) that maintain routes world-wide. The Airbus Corporation competes with Boeing in the manufacture of large-bodied passenger aircraft.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Trade===&lt;br /&gt;
International and intercontinental trade on a large scale is conducted by nearly all European countries, with the Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy, and the United Kingdom among the largest trading nations in the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
====Early humans====&lt;br /&gt;
[[Image:Europe ref04.jpg|thumb|300 px|Shaded relief map of Europe]]&lt;br /&gt;
It was during the late Paleolithic that humans arrived on the continent, and although of a hunter-gatherer stock they left behind examples of their art, most notably the cave paintings in Spain and France with their highly-decorated murals of extinct animals.  As these hunters settled down by the Neolithic period, they had learned to farm, and by roughly 6000 B.C. farming had spread across most of the continent.  With farming came a more settled life, and towns were created, with the Starčevo and Danubian cultures in the Balkans, and Sesklo and Dimini in Thessaly.  Trade in metals (copper, tin) resulted in the creation of bronze by about 4000 B.C.; amber marked its appearence as a precious stone in trade from the Baltic.  Elaborate burials were becoming common, especially of aristocrats or royalty; during this time as well humans were organized into societies that resulted in the construction of the megaliths, of which [[Stonehenge]] is the best known example. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No clear definition exists for the origin of the Indo-European languages.  Some scholars theorize that it came across the plains north of the Black Sea with a kurgan culture around 2500 B.C.  According to the theory, the first such kurgan invasion was successful in the Balkans, where it spread to central Europe.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====First Civilizations====&lt;br /&gt;
The island of Crete in the Aegean was the first to have a major civilization in Europe.  Named after King Minos of Greek mythology, the Minoan Civilization had its capital at Knossos; the ruins excavated in the early 20th century by British archaeologist Arthur Evans indicate a well-developed society, capable of extensive trade by sea, which effectively controlled the Aegean by 1600 B.C.  By then the first tellings of the Mycenaean Civilization appeared on mainland Greece.  These ancient Greeks may have been Indo-Europeans from the Balkans, and have been in conflict with the Minoans, who simply vanish from the historical record by 1400 B.C. (this may be due to the eruption of Thera, a volcano to the north of Crete, about 1450 B.C., which may have caused a tsunami to strike Crete; physical evidence on Crete indicates a massive, catastrophic explosion).  By 1200 B.C. the Mycenaeans themselves were almost destroyed, by warfare and earthquakes.  In the years following, the Greeks began to fashion new tools and weapons from iron.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== See also ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Europa]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Architecture]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== External links ==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/europe.htm Europe]&lt;br /&gt;
==Further reading==&lt;br /&gt;
===Reference===&lt;br /&gt;
* DeWald, Jonathan, ed. ''Europe 1450 to 1789: Encyclopedia of the Early Modern World'' (6 vol. 2003), 3200pp; 1100 articles by experts.&lt;br /&gt;
* Merriman, John, and Jay Winter, eds. ''Europe 1789 to 1914: Encyclopedia of the Age of Industry and Empire'' (5 vol 2006). &lt;br /&gt;
* Merriman, John, and Jay Winter, eds. ''Europe - Since 1914 - Encyclopedia of the Age of War and Reconstruction'' (5 vol 2005), 3100 pp. 920 articles by experts&lt;br /&gt;
===Guides===&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Europe'' (Eyewitness Travel Guides) by Dan Colwell (2003)[http://www.amazon.com/Europe-Eyewitness-Travel-Guides-Colwell/dp/0789497301/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226617&amp;amp;sr=1-2 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''The Rough Guide to Europe on a Budget'' (2008)[http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Europe-Budget-Travel-Guides/dp/1843539942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226617&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Frommer's Eastern Europe'' by Dr. Ryan James et al. (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Eastern-Europe-Complete/dp/0470399082/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226617&amp;amp;sr=1-10 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
*  ''MTV Europe'' by Lauren Berger et al. (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/MTV-Europe-Guides-Lauren-Berger/dp/0764584995/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226824&amp;amp;sr=1-19 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* '' Central Europe'' by Lisa Dunford et al. (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Central-Europe-Multi-Country-Guide/dp/1741049997/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226824&amp;amp;sr=1-20 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Western Europe'' by Ryan ver Berkmoes (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Western-Europe-Multi-Country-Guide/dp/1741049172/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226824&amp;amp;sr=1-23 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Rick Steves' Best of Europe 2010'' by Rick Steves (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Rick-Steves-Best-Europe-2010/dp/1598802828/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226975&amp;amp;sr=1-32  excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Surveys and textbooks===&lt;br /&gt;
* Beazley, Mitchell. ''From the Dark Ages to the Renaissance: 700 - 1599 AD'' (2003)&lt;br /&gt;
* Bispham, Edward. ''Roman Europe: 1000 BC - AD 400'' (Short Oxford History of Europe) (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Roman-Europe-Short-Oxford-History/dp/0199266018/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220635&amp;amp;sr=1-10 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Buchanan, Tom. ''Europe's Troubled Peace: 1945 - 2000'' (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/Europes-Troubled-Peace-Blackwell-History/dp/0631221638/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226547&amp;amp;sr=1-5 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Davies, Norman. ''Europe - A History'' (1998). [http://www.amazon.com/Europe-History-Norman-Davies/dp/0060974680/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254227637&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Eichengreen, Barry. ''The European Economy since 1945: Coordinated Capitalism and Beyond'' (2008) [http://www.amazon.com/European-Economy-since-1945-Coordinated/dp/0691138486/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226547&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search], advanced economics&lt;br /&gt;
* Hollister, C. Warren, and Judith Bennett. ''Medieval Europe: A Short History'' (2005) [http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Europe-History-C-Warren-Hollister/dp/0071244239/ref=sr_1_23?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220835&amp;amp;sr=1-23 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Judt, Tony. '' Postwar: A History of Europe Since 1945‎'' (2006) - 933 pages [http://books.google.com/books?id=10oPnprPjcgC&amp;amp;dq=intitle:history+intitle:of+intitle:europe&amp;amp;lr=&amp;amp;as_drrb_is=b&amp;amp;as_minm_is=0&amp;amp;as_miny_is=2002&amp;amp;as_maxm_is=0&amp;amp;as_maxy_is=2009&amp;amp;num=30&amp;amp;as_brr=3 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Kerr, Gordon. ''A Short History of Europe: From Charlemagne to the Treaty of Lisbon'' (2009), 160pp&lt;br /&gt;
* Kishlansky, Mark, et al. ''A Brief History of Western Civilization: The Unfinished Legacy'' (2 vol. 2006) , widely used textbook; numerous editions&lt;br /&gt;
* McEvedy, Colin, and David Woodroffe. ''The New Penguin Atlas of Recent History: Europe Since 1815'' (2003) [http://www.amazon.com/New-Penguin-Atlas-Recent-History/dp/0140515046/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220635&amp;amp;sr=1-7 excertp and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* McKay, John P. et al. ''Western Society: A Brief History:  (2 vol 2009), widely used textbook; numerous editions&lt;br /&gt;
* Mazower, Mark. ''Dark Continent: Europe's Twentieth Century'' (2000) [http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Continent-Europes-Twentieth-Century/dp/067975704X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254226466&amp;amp;sr=1-2 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Merriman, John. ''A History of Modern Europe, From the Renaissance to the Present'' (2nd ed. 2004) [http://www.amazon.com/History-Modern-Europe-Second-One/dp/0393979105/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220931&amp;amp;sr=1-27 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Milward, Alan S., and S. B. Saul. ''Development of the Economies of Continental Europe 1850-1914'' (1977)&lt;br /&gt;
* Sherman, Dennis. ''Western Civilization: Sources, Images, and Interpretations, from the Renaissance to the Present'' (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/Western-Civilization-Sources-Interpretations-Renaissance/dp/0073513245/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254221546&amp;amp;sr=1-15 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* Spielvogel, Jackson J. ''Western Civilization'' (2008); widely used textbook; numerous editions &lt;br /&gt;
* Wiesner-Hanks, Merry E. ''Early Modern Europe, 1450-1789'' (2006), stress on [[social history]] [http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Europe-1450-1789-Cambridge-History/dp/0521005213/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1254220635&amp;amp;sr=1-4 excerpt and text search] &lt;br /&gt;
* Wasserstein, Bernard. ''Barbarism and civilization: a history of Europe in our time‎'' (2007) 901 pages [http://books.google.com/books?id=_utII6-EarIC&amp;amp;dq=intitle:history+intitle:of+intitle:europe&amp;amp;lr=&amp;amp;as_drrb_is=b&amp;amp;as_minm_is=0&amp;amp;as_miny_is=1990&amp;amp;as_maxm_is=0&amp;amp;as_maxy_is=2009&amp;amp;num=30&amp;amp;as_brr=3 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Continents]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:European History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Europe&amp;diff=759667</id>
		<title>Talk:Europe</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Europe&amp;diff=759667"/>
		<updated>2010-03-05T14:21:07Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Added new layout to the article, which should make it easy to contribute in sections.  [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 17:33, 9 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Sounds too much like it's a country ==&lt;br /&gt;
This article reads very much like Europe is a country. It should really be re-written. For instance, it talks about the average age of Europeans being so and so much. I've read it differs alot between countries.&lt;br /&gt;
Also, politics differ alot between the countries.&lt;br /&gt;
I feel there are alot of people in the United States who think Europe is one country. Shouldn't we inform them that's it's just a continent?&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Mars&amp;diff=759666</id>
		<title>Talk:Mars</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Mars&amp;diff=759666"/>
		<updated>2010-03-05T14:13:29Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{simulsubmitted|user=TerryH|site user=Temlakos}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Young Mars creation model ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Charles Creager, Jr., author of the article cited at the bottom of the new section headed Young Mars Creation model, is the principal author of that section text and has granted to me, TerryH, his explicit permission to submit his text (that he originally submitted to [[CreationWiki]]) to this article.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;[[User talk:TerryH|Talk]]&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 10:45, 2 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:I'm confused how this new section gives evidence for a young Mars. Maybe I'm not reading it right? [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:54, 4 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I must admit that the citation used for the scientific facts about Mars is a good one.  The Mars Fact Sheet from the National Space Science Data Center is the one I use when giving facts about any planet.  The exactness of the measurements is better than any other site.  Good Job!!!--[[User:KevinSSr|KevinSSr]] 23:04, 4 December 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Water on Mars ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Shouldn't the section about water on Mars be expanded? There's alot of information on the subject. Maybe I should try to expand that section.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Metallica&amp;diff=759663</id>
		<title>Metallica</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Metallica&amp;diff=759663"/>
		<updated>2010-03-05T13:58:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Edited &amp;quot;have become&amp;quot; to &amp;quot;is one of the&amp;quot;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Metallica''' is an American [[thrash metal]]/[[heavy metal]] band known for establishing the thrash metal genre along with Slayer, [[Megadeth]], and Anthrax (known as the &amp;quot;Big Four of Thrash Metal&amp;quot;).  Formed in 1981 in Los Angeles by guitarist and lead vocalist James Hetfield and drummer Lars Ulrich&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.metallica.com/Band/history.asp&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, is one of the most popular in-concert bands while selling about 90 million records worldwide.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artist/2q8c/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
They have released a total of eight studio albums, the most well known being &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Ride the Lightning&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;, &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Master of Puppets&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;, and &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Metallica&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;, and in September 2008, the band released its ninth album &amp;lt;i&amp;gt;Death Magnetic&amp;lt;/i&amp;gt;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?item=14828&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The band has come under criticism following their campaign to sue internet users who shared their music on Napster.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Original lineup==&lt;br /&gt;
Originally, the band consisted of;&lt;br /&gt;
*James Hetfield (Rhythm Guitar and vocals)&lt;br /&gt;
*Lars Ulrich (Drums)&lt;br /&gt;
*Dave Mustaine (Lead Guitar)&lt;br /&gt;
*Ron McGovney (Bass)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Kill 'Em All lineup==&lt;br /&gt;
Before Metallica's first album was recorded, both McGovney and Mustaine were fired, Mustaine due to his struggles with alcohol and drugs, and McGovney due to his inability to get along with other members. Metallica hired Kirk Hammett to replace Mustaine, and Cliff Burton to replace McGovney. This would be known as the &amp;quot;classic&amp;quot; Metallica lineup.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==After Master Of Puppets==&lt;br /&gt;
After Master Of Puppets, widely believed to be Metallica's best album, bassist Cliff Burton died in a tour bus accident in Sweden. He was replaced with Jason Newsted.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==St. Anger==&lt;br /&gt;
Just before the recording of Metallica's 8th studio album, Newsted left the band, saying that he felt like he never quite fit in. Producer Bob Rock took over the duty of playing the bass for St. Anger.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Current lineup==&lt;br /&gt;
*James Hetfield (guitars and vocals)&lt;br /&gt;
*Lars Ulrich (drums)&lt;br /&gt;
*Kirk Hammett (guitars)&lt;br /&gt;
*Robert Trujillo (bass)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Discography==&lt;br /&gt;
*''Kill 'Em All'' (1983)&lt;br /&gt;
*''Ride the Lightning'' (1984)&lt;br /&gt;
*''Master of Puppets'' (1986)&lt;br /&gt;
*''...And Justice for All'' (1988)&lt;br /&gt;
*''Metallica'' (1991)&lt;br /&gt;
*''Load'' (1996)&lt;br /&gt;
*''ReLoad'' (1997)&lt;br /&gt;
*''Garage Inc.'' (1998) - Cover album&lt;br /&gt;
*''S&amp;amp;M'' (1999) - Live album with orchestral backup&lt;br /&gt;
*''St. Anger'' (2003)&lt;br /&gt;
*''Death Magnetic'' (2008)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.metallica.com/ Official Metallica Website]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Bands]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Rock Bands]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Heavy Metal]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Lost_(TV_series)&amp;diff=759662</id>
		<title>Lost (TV series)</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Lost_(TV_series)&amp;diff=759662"/>
		<updated>2010-03-05T13:57:04Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Edited the text about the series losing viewers so that it's more objectively written&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''''Lost''''' is a popular television series made by the [[ABC|American Broadcasting Company]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The series follows the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815, which crashes on an unidentified island in the Pacific Ocean. The group of strangers must learn to cooperate in order to survive the island's challenges, which are vastly more complicated than initially thought. Despite the standard &amp;quot;desert island&amp;quot; scenario, the plot involves much more than mere survival against the elements, with the castaways encountering several mysteries and ever-deepening conspiracies to deal with, as well as bizarre occurences and mysterious phenomena meeting them at every turn.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the first three seasons, each episode typically centered around one character, with events on the island mixed with flashbacks to important parts of that person's life before the crash. Later in the series, however, this formula was altered several times, in ways that were appropriate to the radically-changing nature of the plot.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Lost'' began its first season on September 22, 2004, and is scheduled to end with the last episode of its sixth season on May 18, 2010. The announcement for the show's end date, including the number of remaining episodes and layout of the remaining seasons, was made in May 2007, close to the end of the show's third season. The show's creators had been urging the network to agree to this relatively rare arrangement for some time, and explaining this move, executive producer Damon Lindelof remarked that &amp;quot;We always envisioned 'Lost' as a show with a beginning, middle and end. By officially announcing exactly when that ending will be, the audience will now have the security of knowing that the story will play out as we've intended.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://web.archive.org/web/20070510030616/http://www.abcmedianet.com/assets/pr%5chtml/050707_01.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The show's popularity is such that the sixth season premiere, which aired February 2, 2010, forced the [[Obama]] administration to move up the annual [[State of the Union]] address to avoid scheduling conflicts.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/01/fans-rejoice-lost-defeated-the-state-of-the-union-today.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''Lost'' has a very detailed and long story arc which sometimes makes it hard for viewers to follow the plot. The series has gradually lost viewership, from 15.5 million in the first season to an average of 11 million in its fifth season.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*http://abcmedianet.com/web/dnr/dispDNR.aspx?id=062105_06&lt;br /&gt;
*http://abcmedianet.com/web/dnr/dispDNR.aspx?id=032409_05&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; However, it has received excellent reviews since it began, and still at its lowest point has enjoyed an audience of over eight million viewers.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2009/03/episode-510-hes-our-you-last-night.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Also noteworthy is that much in the way of Christian imagery and themes permeate the show's narrative. For example, one important character's name is &amp;quot;Christian Shepherd,&amp;quot; and several characters exemplify the conflict between [[science]] and [[faith]]. Overall, the theme of [[good and evil|good vs. evil]] is predominant, with other Christian themes such as [[redemption]] and [[judgment]] playing major roles. One of the show's executive producers, Carlton Cuse, has often stated publically that he's a Christian whose faith informs his writing.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*A radio interview with Monsignor Jim Lisante http://www.podcastdirectory.com/podcasts/14182, See Podcast 035 &lt;br /&gt;
*see also blog discussion and transcript at http://tonyrossi.blogspot.com/2008/01/lost-and-found.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External Links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://imdb.com/title/tt0411008/ The Internet Movie Database's ''Lost'' entry]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page &amp;quot;Lostpedia,&amp;quot; a complete wiki devoted to the show]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[category:broadcasting]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Star_Trek_franchise&amp;diff=759636</id>
		<title>Talk:Star Trek franchise</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Star_Trek_franchise&amp;diff=759636"/>
		<updated>2010-03-05T09:03:33Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Remove relationships views?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Do you have episode sources for the Klingons and Ferangi religions?  It seems it may have been mentioned, but wasn't a major part of the focus such as with the first two examples.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
One of the difficulties with the series is that there is nothing approaching the God of monotheism.  The religions are seen as false and stupid, ignorant people worshipping living entities who they don't understand. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 13:48, 2 October 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The people aren't normally seen as ignorant or stupid. They respect freedom of religion. There are many points where the prophets in the Bajoran religion actually intervene. Although the ethiest charecters likely dismiss them as powerful wormhole aliens.  {{unsigned|Double Edge}} circa. 31st October 2007.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Religion ==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
At one point when Captain Picard dies and goes to the &amp;quot;afterlife&amp;quot; he makes a comment &amp;quot;The Universe is not so badly run.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I believe this is a reference to the episode &amp;quot;Tapestry&amp;quot;, where Picard dies and goes to the afterlife only to find Q. His comment is not against religion, but rather an attack on Q.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{unsigned|Mgroop}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It is an attack on Q. But suggesting that the universe is run means that he is not an ethiest.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Double Edge&lt;br /&gt;
: I'm inclined to disagree.  How well it's &amp;quot;run&amp;quot; is probably just a euphemism, not a direct indication that he believes that it is ''run'' as such.  It could also be making point ''on the assumption'' that it's &amp;quot;run&amp;quot;, which would be the case if Q was in charge, i.e. merely refuting Q's claim within Q's assumptions, but without necessarily accepting those assumptions.  In other words, I don't think you can draw that much out of that comment.  Incidentally, I changed to wording of that part to reflect this just ''before'' reading this talk page!  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 01:19, 24 December 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Having not watched TNG in quite some time and never having the fondness for it that I did for the original, I've been reluctant to access that area of my brain, but a couple of thoughts do come to mind.  When was it ever stated that Q ran the universe?  He was an observer of the universe, and he would play with various parts of it, but I never picked up the idea that he was in any way responsible for running it or in charge of it.  Also, there is an episode where the Enterprise is trapped in a section of space with an entity that is going to experiment on them to see what different forms of death are like; it would take about half the crew.  There is a discussion between the captain and 'Ryker' and 'Troi' (actually the alien) about whether or not Piccard believes in God, and he states something to the effect that he does because the universe is just a bit too orderly otherwise.  TNG accepts the existence of God, but it's the concept of a personal God where He has revealed Himself that is harshly denigrated in other episodes. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:42, 8 January 2008 (EST) &lt;br /&gt;
::: I don't recall the Q episode very well, but the article says that Q ''implied'' that he ran the universe.  It would be typical of Q to claim or imply something like that, simply because Q was loose with the truth like that.  The &amp;quot;statement&amp;quot; was probably nothing more than Q grandstanding.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 17:55, 8 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
----&lt;br /&gt;
Learn together changed:&lt;br /&gt;
:Roddenberry rarely had the shows overtly reject religion, seeming instead to simply ignore it.&lt;br /&gt;
to:&lt;br /&gt;
:Roddenberry rarely had the shows overtly reject religion, but would make reference to it as a part of culture.&lt;br /&gt;
followed by some examples of references to religion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Now, I'm not criticising the edit, but I do wonder... Do we know whether this was Roddenberry's doing, or perhaps the initiative of the writer(s)?  What I'm ''suggesting'' (and a suggestion is all that it is) is that one or more writers introduced these religious references, and because they were not overtly promoting Christianity, Roddenberry didn't object to them.  If my suggestion is correct, then perhaps the article should reflect that somehow.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yeah, I suppose I could do some research and see if Roddenberry wrote any of those episodes, or see if they all had the same writer, but I thought that someone else might have some idea on this.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I have no personal knowledge.  To be safe we could remove the mention to Roddenberry specifically and replace it with more generic wording. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 12:42, 8 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
:: I've made the wording more generic.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 17:55, 8 January 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== ChrisSmith's edit ==&lt;br /&gt;
I consider [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Star_Trek&amp;amp;diff=500360&amp;amp;oldid=375262 this edit] to be parody, but will hold off reverting it in case someone thinks that there is something that can be salvaged from it.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 23:00, 17 August 2008 (EDT) (Administrator)&lt;br /&gt;
:Hrm, I didn't intend for it to come across as &amp;quot;parody&amp;quot;, but maybe it was a little enthusiastic. I think removing all of the content was a little far - I was wondering why there's no mention of the clear socialist ideals of the show: working towards the betterment of humanity, with no money etc. If this isn't left-wing I don't know what is. [[User:ChrisSmith|ChrisSmith]] 18:40, 18 August 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
::You think working towards the benefit of humanity is left-wing?  Interesting.  Most of us on this site would consider that to be a conservative idea.  The difficulty with liberals is that if there is a hole in a boat that is causing water to come in, they believe the appropriate action is to keep shoveling out the water - and leave the hole.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::As far as Star Trek goes, the show is humanistic, showing a society that has gone beyond consumption difficulties, racial differences, entitlements, or national infighting.  Democracy has prevailed and merit rules.  Kirk isn't the captain based on a lottery system.  He is the captain based upon years of hard work and ability.  There is nothing in those idea that is liberal. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 09:39, 19 August 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: (Edit conflict with Learn together) What's left-wing about working toward the betterment of humanity?  Rather, that is a ''Christian'' thing to do (e.g. most charities have been started by Christians; Christians donate more than non-believers).  Besides, the article did already mention that aspect:&lt;br /&gt;
{{QuoteBox|As a humanist, Gene Roddenberry infused Star Trek with humanism's dream of a world (or galaxy in this case) where humanity (and many other intelligent beings) were constantly improving the life quality of all beings both through improving technology and improving societal conditions. People worked together for the common good, rather than for money, and without any class or other distinctions. This is a small part of what is expected in the Christian view of heaven, except that humanism believes that mankind can achieve this through its own efforts, rather than with the help of God.}}&lt;br /&gt;
:: The point is, they are ''not'' (exclusively) socialist values.  They are also ''Christian'' values.  The difference (apart from the one mentioned) is that socialists want to impose these values on others; Christians want to do them out of love.&lt;br /&gt;
:: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 09:50, 19 August 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:::Ok, I can accept that :) thanks for being so civil. [[User:ChrisSmith|ChrisSmith]] 14:59, 19 August 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Make this an overview article ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Although this article starts off talking about the original series, much of it is talking about the whole &amp;quot;Star Trek universe&amp;quot;.  I was thinking that we ought to have a separate &amp;quot;Star Trek universe&amp;quot; (or similar) article and make this one ''just'' about the original series, but now think that perhaps this article should be about the whole Star Trek universe and that we should create a separate ''Star Trek (original series)'' or similar article.  Thoughts?  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 10:15, 19 September 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
: By the way, lacking any objection, I did this.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 03:23, 12 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Transpose tables? ==&lt;br /&gt;
I would like to swap the axes of the two tables under the heading ''The series and films''.  That is, have the titles down the left instead of along the top.  Is there any objection to this?  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 03:23, 12 October 2008 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
: There being no objection, I've transposed them.  [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 08:08, 8 November 2008 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Remove relationship views? ==&lt;br /&gt;
Just though that we might remove the section about relationship views since it really is a minor part of the whole Star Trek universe in terms of the different series. Star Trek was always about openness and never really but a huge emphasis on relationships, in whatever form it was.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Chicago_Bulls&amp;diff=759433</id>
		<title>Chicago Bulls</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Chicago_Bulls&amp;diff=759433"/>
		<updated>2010-03-04T12:56:59Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The '''Chicago Bulls''' are a professional [[basketball]] team that belongs to the [[National Basketball Association]]. The team is located in [[Chicago]] and plays in the [[United Center]]. The most famous player for the Bulls was [[Michael Jordan]]. During the 1990's they won six championships. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Championships: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Roster==&lt;br /&gt;
===Guards===&lt;br /&gt;
*1 Derrick Rose&lt;br /&gt;
*12 Kirk Hinrich&lt;br /&gt;
*11 Lindsey Hunter&lt;br /&gt;
*32 Devin Brown&lt;br /&gt;
*0  Acie Law&lt;br /&gt;
*6  Ronald &amp;quot;Flip&amp;quot; Murray&lt;br /&gt;
*2  Jannero Pargo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Forwards===&lt;br /&gt;
*9 [[Luol Deng]]&lt;br /&gt;
*20 Joe Alexander&lt;br /&gt;
*22 Taj Gibson&lt;br /&gt;
*16 James Johnson&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Centers===&lt;br /&gt;
*21 Hakim Warrick&lt;br /&gt;
*31 Jerome James&lt;br /&gt;
*52 Brad Miller&lt;br /&gt;
*13 [[Joakim Noah]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{NBA}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:National Basketball Association]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Illinois]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Ark_of_the_Covenant&amp;diff=758828</id>
		<title>Ark of the Covenant</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Ark_of_the_Covenant&amp;diff=758828"/>
		<updated>2010-03-02T14:04:45Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Made it more clear that he was an amateur archeologist, not a professional one&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;[[Image:RaidersArk.jpg|right|thumb|300px|The Ark of the Covenant, as portrayed in the 1981 film ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'' (Lucasfilm, c. 1981)]]&lt;br /&gt;
The '''Ark of the Covenant''' (Hebrew: ארון הבּרית, 'ărōn ha-berīth) in the [[Old Testament]] of the [[Bible]] is the chest the Hebrews used to contain the tablets of the Law given by God to [[Moses]].  The Ark was the centerpiece of the Temple in Jerusalem, residing in the Holy of Holies, and seen just once a year by the high priest on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Biblical description==&lt;br /&gt;
The Ark is first mentioned in Exodus, chapter 25:&lt;br /&gt;
:''And they shall make an ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof, and a cubit and a half the height thereof.''&lt;br /&gt;
:''And thou shalt overlay it with pure gold, within and without shalt thou overlay it, and shalt make upon it a crown of gold round about.''&lt;br /&gt;
:''And thou shalt cast four rings of gold for it, and put them in the four corners thereof; and two rings shall be in the one side of it, and two rings in the other side of it.'' &lt;br /&gt;
:''And thou shalt make staves of shittim wood, and overlay them with gold.'' &lt;br /&gt;
:''And thou shalt put the staves into the rings by the sides of the ark, that the ark may be borne with them.'' &lt;br /&gt;
:''The staves shall be in the rings of the ark: they shall not be taken from it.'' &lt;br /&gt;
:''And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.''&lt;br /&gt;
:''And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof.''&lt;br /&gt;
:''And thou shalt make two [[cherubim]]s of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat.'' &lt;br /&gt;
:''And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.''&lt;br /&gt;
:''And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.'' &lt;br /&gt;
:''And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.'' &lt;br /&gt;
:''And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. (Exodus 25:10-22)''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Essentially, the Ark was a box approximately 27 inches wide by 27 inches high by 36 inches long (Biblical: 1.5 x 1.5 x 2 cubits; a cubit = 18 inches); the &amp;quot;shittim wood&amp;quot; was determined to have been [[acacia]].  The lid of the box was solid gold and crowned by a pair of gold cherubim facing each other; the outspread wings of the cherubim formed the throne of God, while the Ark itself was His footstool. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The &amp;quot;staves&amp;quot; were gold rings on the corners, which enabled poles to be inserted when the Ark was carried by the Levites, who were the only Hebrew tribe authorized to do so.  When traveling, the Ark was covered by a costly veil of blue cloth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Ark was also known by another name: '''Ark of Testimony'', the result of its containing the most important object in Hebrew life, the tablets of the Law (Exodus 40:18; Deuteronomy 10:5) given to Moses on Mt. Sinai, which were often referred to as the testimony.  The tablets, as well as a pot of manna (Exodus 16:34), and Aaron's rod which had blossomed (Numbers 17:10) formed the contents of the Ark.  Jewish tradition mentions that the first five books of the Torah written by Moses was also placed inside; however, according to 1 Kings 8:9, when the Ark was placed in the new temple by Solomon, it contained only the tablets of the Law.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
When the Ark was carried in the open, it was covered by a veil of badger skins, and a blue cloth, concealed even from the Levite priests who were assigned to carry it.  When the Hebrews were at rest during the wanderings, the Ark was placed within the tabernacle, a tent-like structure erected as a place of worship, the Ark being placed within a segregated area inside called the “Holy of Holies”.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During the journeys of the Israelites the ark was carried by the priests in advance of the main body of the Hebrew host (Numbers 4:5, 4:6; 10:33-36; Psams 68:1; 132:8), its power first being demonstrated when it was borne over the Jordan River, which separated into a pathway for the priests to cross (Joshua 3:15, 3:16; 4:7, 4:10, 4:11, 4:17, 4:18).   It was borne in the procession round Jericho (Joshua 6:4, 6:6, 6:8, 6:11, 6:12) for seven days prior to the successful capture of that city.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Much has been said about the Ark’s power, that it was claimed to have been an early type of storage battery; indeed, warnings not to touch the Ark by anyone but the high priest were in force, and one man (Uzzah) was killed by it after reaching out to steady it.  Taken in battle at one point in its history (1 Samuel 4:3-11), the victorious Philistines were forced to beg their defeated foe to take it back after spending seven calamitous months with it (1 Samuel 5:7, 1 Samuel 5:8).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
After the settlement of Israel in the Promised Land the ark remained in the tabernacle at Gilgal for a season, and then removed to Shiloh until the time of Eli, between 300 and 400 years (Jeremiah 7:12).  It remained then at Kirjath-jearim (1 Samuel 7:1, 1 Samuel 7:2) for twenty years until removed to the house of Obed-edom in Gath-rimmon for three months (2 Samuel 6:1-11) as a result of Uzzah’s transgression; when that period ended David removed it in a grand procession to Jerusalem, where it was kept till a place was prepared for it (2 Samuel 6:12-19).  It was left to Solomon to build the first temple where it was deposited (1 Kings 8:6-9).  When the Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem and plundered the temple, the ark was probably taken away by Nebuchadnezzar and destroyed, as no trace of it is afterwards to be found. &lt;br /&gt;
Jeremiah in the passage Jeremiah 3:16, which certainly was written after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians, states that in the future new Jerusalem nobody will any more concern himself about the Ark of the Covenant, and no one will again build such a one.  In the post-exilic Psalm 132:8 the Lord is petitioned to occupy together with the ark, the symbol of His omnipotent presence, also the sanctuary that has been erected for Him, the poet describing himself and those who sing this psalm as participants in the home-bringing of the ark by David. No further mention is made of the Ark of the Covenant in the Psalter or the prophetical books.  The absence of the Ark from the second temple was considered a reason for its inferiority&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Current status==&lt;br /&gt;
The Ark of the Covenant is the most sought-after religious object in history, involving the divinely-inspired, soul-seekers, the Knights Templars, archeaologists, historians, scholars, skeptics, and outright charlatans.&lt;br /&gt;
===Jeremiah===&lt;br /&gt;
Several traditions exist as to the fate of the Ark after 587 B.C.  The first was written down in the book of 2nd Maccabees, apparently a copy of a letter written by the prophet Jeremiah: &lt;br /&gt;
:''The prophet, being warned by God, commanded that the tabernacle and the ark should accompany him, till he came forth to the mountain where Moses went up and saw the inheritance of God. And when Jeremias came thither he found a hollow cave and he carried in thither the tabernacle and the ark and the altar of incense, and so stopped the door. Then some of them that followed him, came up to mark the place; but they could not find it. And when Jeremias perceived it, he blamed them saying: the place shall be unknown, till God gather together the congregation of the people and receive them to mercy. And then the Lord will shew these things, and the majesty of the Lord shall appear, and there shall be a cloud as it was also shewed to Moses, and he shewed it when Solomon prayed that the place might be sanctified to the great God. (2 Maccabees 2:4-8)''&lt;br /&gt;
 &lt;br /&gt;
According to tradition, Jeremiah was divinely warned of the Babylonian invasion, and taking the Ark he had it sealed up and hidden inside a mountain where no one could find it except during the last days; various accounts cite the location as being either Mt. Nebo in Jordan, or near the Temple Mount in a small grotto within Mt. Moriah.  This in turn has led to several searches by professional and amateur alike, of which the most notable of the latter was Ron Wyatt.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Ron Wyatt====&lt;br /&gt;
The Temple Mount location has been the subject of several searches by Ron Wyatt, a registered nurse by training, and an amateur Biblical archaeologist/historian.  Wyatt claimed to have found the Ark in 1982 [http://www.wyattarchaeology.com/ark.htm] after being divinely inspired; his search resulted in several images of gold which he claimed was the Ark, albeit blurry.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Wyatt had also found, among other things, the tombs of Noah, Abraham, Jesus, and numerous other Biblical figures; the sites of Sodom, Gomorrah, and the true Noah's ark; Moses' original Ten Commandments bound with a golden hinge; the true site of the Red Sea crossing; and many other things related to the Bible, all when he was on his vacations, which he could afford while working part-time [http://www.tccsa.tc/articles/wyatt.html].  His &amp;quot;achievements&amp;quot; led to severe criticism, most notably from Christian circles, his lack of formal training in archaeology notwithstanding.  Needless to say, when comparred with the physical description given in the Bible about the Ark of the Covenant, Wyatt's claimed photos do not match.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Dr. Jim Fleming, founder and former director of the Jerusalem Center for Biblical Studies (located at Tantur) and an editorial advisor to ''Biblical Archaeology Review'' stated that while at a dig at Mount Calvary he observed at close hand Wyatt's methods, claiming in one incident that he had discovered the Ark based on nothing more than the reading of an ordinary metal detector.  Others have noted similar instances; John Woods, a Christian pastor, said “I saw him explaining to a group that a piece of metal embedded in the face of the Garden Tomb was part of the seal Pilate had placed upon the tomb.  In fact it was a piece of shrapnel from the war (the Six-Day War of 1967; from a letter to Gordon Franz from Reverend John Woods, Executive Director, The Gospel Mission of Washington, D.C., February 4, 1994). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Ethiopia===&lt;br /&gt;
[[File:Colmz1.jpg|right|200px|thumb|Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion, Aksum, Ethiopia]]&lt;br /&gt;
According to another tradition, the Ark may have been removed by the Levites to keep it out of the hands of the idolatrous Israelite King Manasseh, who profaned the Temple by sacrificing to a pagan god (2 Kings 21).  The tradition holds that the priests took the Ark with them east towards the [[Nile River]] in [[Egypt]], where they erected an actual temple on the island of Elephantine (evidence confirms the existence of such a structure).  Later the Ark was again moved south to Ethiopia, where it resided on an island in Lake Tana for several centuries before being moved once more to Aksum, where it resides in the small Church of Our Lady Mary of Zion today.  The term ''tabat'' refers to a copy of the Ark, which is an object made for individual churches within Ethiopia; the number of these copies gives some protection to the original, if it indeed does exist within Ethiopia.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
According to a statement made public by the patriarch of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church while visiting [[Rome]], the Ark was to have been revealed to the world on June 26, 2009.  In a meeting with Pope Benedict XVI, Patriarch Abuna Pauolos stated &amp;quot;Soon the world will be able to admire the Ark of the Covenant described in the Bible as the container of the tablets of the law that God delivered to Moses and the center of searches and studies for centuries.&amp;quot;  When the time for the reveal had come and gone, a spokesman for the church said that what the patriach said earlier may have been &amp;quot;a slip [of the] tongue from the patriarch&amp;quot;[http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&amp;amp;pageId=102532].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Menelik I====&lt;br /&gt;
A variant of this story was that the son of a union between the legendary Queen of Sheba and King Solomon had returned to Jerusalem as a young man.  Menelik would stay for a short time, and either be given the Ark by his father or would steal it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Tanis===&lt;br /&gt;
Tanis was an Egyptian city in the Nile delta region, and once the capitol of Pharaoh Shoshenq I, claimed to have been the Biblical [[Shishak]] who raided Jerusalem and carried away much treasure.  Belief in this theory has never been popular due to lack of supporting evidence; however, Tanis was intriguing enough to serve as a fictional location for one of today's most famous films: 1981's ''Raiders of the Lost Ark''.  Indiana Jones, the hero of the film, is an archaeologist sent by the U.S. government to retrieve the Ark from its Tanis location before the Nazis can get to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.tccsa.tc/articles/wyatt.html &amp;quot;Noah's Ark, the Ark of the Covenant, and Ron Wyatt,&amp;quot; article by Linda Gunderson]&lt;br /&gt;
{{nb Tabernacle}}&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Judaism]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Tabernacle]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Censorship&amp;diff=757239</id>
		<title>Censorship</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Censorship&amp;diff=757239"/>
		<updated>2010-02-26T13:51:51Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Changed a few things in the first amendment part so that it reads a bit better&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Censorship''' is the suppression of statements or information for ideological reasons and is a [[liberal]] tactic.  Current examples include:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*the banning of [[prayer]] in the classroom&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See, e.g., [[classroom prayer]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*the removal of conservative ideas from Wikipedia. &amp;lt;!-- we really should have a citation here --&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*the rejection of [[pro-life]] advertisements&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See, e.g., &amp;quot;[[Canadian]] City Backpedals on Decision to Censor [[Pro-life]] Bus-shelter Ads.&amp;quot; [http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08060506.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*the banning of mention of [[intelligent design]] in school.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See, e.g., [[Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Censorship can also take the form of ostracizing students for expressing [[pro-life]] or other [[conservative]] views.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; See, e.g., [[liberals and friendship]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
*protesting and disrupting invited conservative speakers on campuses.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.nysun.com/new-york/at-columbia-students-attack-minuteman-founder/41020/ At Columbia, Students Attack Minuteman Founder] Ny Sun,  October 5, 2006&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*Censorship is sometimes based on a misuse of [[copyright]], as in the unsuccessful attempt to censor the movie [[Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed]] about [[intelligent design]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7432860.stm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*the destruction or theft of [[conservative]] newspapers on college campuses.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19383118&amp;amp;BRD=2737&amp;amp;PAG=461&amp;amp;dept_id=576361&amp;amp;rfi=8&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*Censorship of [[conservative]] [[talk radio]] via the [[Fairness Doctrine]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Internet censorship]] employed by a country, which can include such things as the filtering of anti-government sites in [[China]] or the censoring of [[women's rights]] or anti-[[Islam]] sites in [[Middle East|Middle Eastern]] countries&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Schools banning books from their libraries.  see  [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/misc/mosaic/common/omega/Web/People/spok/most-banned.html/ List of banned books]&lt;br /&gt;
*Censorship in the media is also present as foul language is censored so that viewers are not offended. This might include both fould verbal language and fould gestures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Political censorship involves a government preventing information from reaching its citizens. Perhaps the best-known contemporary example of this is China's censorship of the [[Google]] search engine, known as the &amp;quot;Golden Shield Project&amp;quot;, which prevents Google from displaying search results of some human rights websites,  websites promoting Tibetan independence, references to the 1989 Tianamen Square protests, and others. A famous example in fiction is George Orwell's novel ''[[Nineteen Eighty-Four]]'', in which the main character works as a civil servant in the department responsible for altering or destroying historical information which the government wishes to keep secret. The rationale behind political censorship is that the political party in power can protect itself from revolution if the public is kept uninformed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The term '''censorship''' derives from ''censor'', the title of the Roman official who conducted the census and supervised public morality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The First Amendment and censorship in the U. S.==&lt;br /&gt;
In the United States, the [[First Amendment]] states that &amp;quot;Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.&amp;quot; Broadly speaking, the First Amendment is designed to prevent the government from exercising censorship.  However, the government sometimes censors political and religious speech anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More specifically, the government should not exercise &amp;quot;prior restraint.&amp;quot; That is, a citizen should not need advance permission from the government in order to publish something, unless it threatens [[national security]]. This does not mean that publication may not have consequences: a citizen can be sued for publishing [[libel]], or incarcerated for disclosing military secrets, but the consequences typically occur ''after'' publication, not before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Censorship is sometimes applied to prohibit obscenity that goes against common standards of public [[morality]]; under US law the first amendment does not protect material considered legally obscene. The definition of obscenity has and continues to vary, with the current Supreme Court definition being the [[Miller test]]. In practical terms, this allows harmful material such as pornography to be criminalized without violating the First Amendment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Censorship may also be directed at religious ideas, as in the Saudi Arabian prohibition on preaching Christianity, liberal restrictions on public expressions of religion, or the Roman Catholic Church's now-recinded ''Index Librorum Prohibitorum''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Certain language and images that may have been censored in the past are typically more common fare in the American media today, although, language or gestures that might be construed as foul are still censored on public American television. On the other hand, while nudity, for example, may be acceptable on mainstream international television, that is much less likely to be accepted in American television and even less acceptable in conservative Muslim countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Quotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
*''All censorships exist to prevent anyone from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions. All progress is initiated by challenging current conceptions, and executed by supplanting existing institutions. Consequently the first condition of progress is the removal of censorship.'' '''[[George Bernard Shaw]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The Author's Apology, preface to &amp;quot;Mrs. Warren's Profession&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Fairness Doctrine]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Liberal censorship]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Political Terms]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Religion and Politics]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:First Amendment]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Liberal Traits]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Censorship&amp;diff=757238</id>
		<title>Censorship</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Censorship&amp;diff=757238"/>
		<updated>2010-02-26T13:48:09Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Censorship''' is the suppression of statements or information for ideological reasons and is a [[liberal]] tactic.  Current examples include:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*the banning of [[prayer]] in the classroom&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See, e.g., [[classroom prayer]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*the removal of conservative ideas from Wikipedia. &amp;lt;!-- we really should have a citation here --&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*the rejection of [[pro-life]] advertisements&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See, e.g., &amp;quot;[[Canadian]] City Backpedals on Decision to Censor [[Pro-life]] Bus-shelter Ads.&amp;quot; [http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08060506.html]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*the banning of mention of [[intelligent design]] in school.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See, e.g., [[Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Censorship can also take the form of ostracizing students for expressing [[pro-life]] or other [[conservative]] views.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; See, e.g., [[liberals and friendship]].&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;  &lt;br /&gt;
*protesting and disrupting invited conservative speakers on campuses.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.nysun.com/new-york/at-columbia-students-attack-minuteman-founder/41020/ At Columbia, Students Attack Minuteman Founder] Ny Sun,  October 5, 2006&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*Censorship is sometimes based on a misuse of [[copyright]], as in the unsuccessful attempt to censor the movie [[Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed]] about [[intelligent design]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7432860.stm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*the destruction or theft of [[conservative]] newspapers on college campuses.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19383118&amp;amp;BRD=2737&amp;amp;PAG=461&amp;amp;dept_id=576361&amp;amp;rfi=8&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
*Censorship of [[conservative]] [[talk radio]] via the [[Fairness Doctrine]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Internet censorship]] employed by a country, which can include such things as the filtering of anti-government sites in [[China]] or the censoring of [[women's rights]] or anti-[[Islam]] sites in [[Middle East|Middle Eastern]] countries&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*Schools banning books from their libraries.  see  [http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/misc/mosaic/common/omega/Web/People/spok/most-banned.html/ List of banned books]&lt;br /&gt;
*Censorship in the media is also present as foul language is censored so that viewers are not offended. This might include both fould verbal language and fould gestures.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Political censorship involves a government preventing information from reaching its citizens. Perhaps the best-known contemporary example of this is China's censorship of the [[Google]] search engine, known as the &amp;quot;Golden Shield Project&amp;quot;, which prevents Google from displaying search results of some human rights websites,  websites promoting Tibetan independence, references to the 1989 Tianamen Square protests, and others. A famous example in fiction is George Orwell's novel ''[[Nineteen Eighty-Four]]'', in which the main character works as a civil servant in the department responsible for altering or destroying historical information which the government wishes to keep secret. The rationale behind political censorship is that the political party in power can protect itself from revolution if the public is kept uninformed. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The term '''censorship''' derives from ''censor'', the title of the Roman official who conducted the census and supervised public morality.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==The First Amendment and censorship in the U. S.==&lt;br /&gt;
In the United States, the [[First Amendment]] states that &amp;quot;Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.&amp;quot; Broadly speaking, the First Amendment is designed to prevent the government from exercising censorship.  However, the government sometimes censors political and religious speech anyway.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
More specifically, the government should not exercise &amp;quot;prior restraint.&amp;quot; That is, a citizen should not need advance permission from the government in order to publish something, unless it threatens [[national security]]. This does not mean that publication may not have consequences: a citizen can be sued for publishing [[libel]], or incarcerated for disclosing military secrets, but the consequences typically occur ''after'' publication, not before.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Censorship is sometimes applied to prohibit obscenity that goes against common standards of public [[morality]]; under US law the first amendment does not protect material considered legally obscene. The definition of obscenity has and continues to vary, with the current Supreme Court definition being the [[Miller test]]. In practical terms, this allows harmful material such as pornography to be criminalized without violating the First Amendment.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Censorship may also be directed at religious ideas, as in the Saudi Arabian prohibition on preaching Christianity, liberal restrictions on public expressions of religion, or the Roman Catholic Church's now-recinded ''Index Librorum Prohibitorum''.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Certain language and images that may have been censored in the past are typically common fare in the American media today. On the other hand, while nudity, for example, may be acceptable on mainstream French television, that is much less likely to be accepted in American television and even less acceptable in conservative Muslim countries.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Quotes ==&lt;br /&gt;
*''All censorships exist to prevent anyone from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions. All progress is initiated by challenging current conceptions, and executed by supplanting existing institutions. Consequently the first condition of progress is the removal of censorship.'' '''[[George Bernard Shaw]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;The Author's Apology, preface to &amp;quot;Mrs. Warren's Profession&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Fairness Doctrine]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Liberal censorship]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== References ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Political Terms]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Religion and Politics]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:First Amendment]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Liberal Traits]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Chicago_Bulls&amp;diff=757236</id>
		<title>Chicago Bulls</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Chicago_Bulls&amp;diff=757236"/>
		<updated>2010-02-26T13:33:00Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Updated the roster and fixed some text at the beginning.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The '''Chicago Bulls''' are a professional [[basketball]] team that belongs to the [[National Basketball Association]]. The team is located in [[Chicago]] and plays in the [[United Center]]. The most famous player for the Bulls was [[Michael Jordan]]. During the 90's, they have won six championships. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Championships: 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Roster==&lt;br /&gt;
===Guards===&lt;br /&gt;
*1 Derrick Rose&lt;br /&gt;
*12 Kirk Hinrich&lt;br /&gt;
*11 Lindsey Hunter&lt;br /&gt;
*32 Devin Brown&lt;br /&gt;
*0  Acie Law&lt;br /&gt;
*6  Ronald &amp;quot;Flip&amp;quot; Murray&lt;br /&gt;
*2  Jannero Pargo&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Forwards===&lt;br /&gt;
*9 [[Luol Deng]]&lt;br /&gt;
*20 Joe Alexander&lt;br /&gt;
*22 Taj Gibson&lt;br /&gt;
*16 James Johnson&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Centers===&lt;br /&gt;
*21 Hakim Warrick&lt;br /&gt;
*31 Jerome James&lt;br /&gt;
*52 Brad Miller&lt;br /&gt;
*13 [[Joakim Noah]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
{{NBA}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:National Basketball Association]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Illinois]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Sweden&amp;diff=757235</id>
		<title>Sweden</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Sweden&amp;diff=757235"/>
		<updated>2010-02-26T13:27:49Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;ConservaPeter: Removed Åsa Waldau from notable Swedes as she really isn't very notable.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Country&lt;br /&gt;
|name           =''Konungariket Sverige''  &lt;br /&gt;
|map	        =Sweden rel96.jpg&lt;br /&gt;
|map2           =Sweden location.png&lt;br /&gt;
|flag	        =Flag of Sweden.png&lt;br /&gt;
|arms	        =Arms of Sweden.png&lt;br /&gt;
|capital	=Stockholm&lt;br /&gt;
|capital-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|government	=Constitutional monarchy&lt;br /&gt;
|government-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|language	=Swedish &lt;br /&gt;
|king	        =Carl XVI Gustaf&lt;br /&gt;
|queen	        =&lt;br /&gt;
|monarch-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|president	=&lt;br /&gt;
|president-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|chancellor	=&lt;br /&gt;
|chancellor-raw	=&lt;br /&gt;
|pm	        =Fredrik Reinfeldt&lt;br /&gt;
|pm-raw	        =&lt;br /&gt;
|area	        =173,732 sq mi&lt;br /&gt;
|pop	        =9,142,8174 (2007)&lt;br /&gt;
|pop-basis	=&lt;br /&gt;
|gdp	        =&lt;br /&gt;
|gdp-year	=$291 billion (2006)&lt;br /&gt;
|gdp-pc	        =$32,200 (2006)&lt;br /&gt;
|currency	=Swedish krona&lt;br /&gt;
|idd		=&lt;br /&gt;
|tld            =&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Sweden''' is a country in [[Scandinavia]]. The capital city is [[Stockholm]], which is also the largest city. Sweden has approximately 9 million inhabitants, with an area of 173,750 square miles (450,000 square kilometers).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden is a constitutional [[monarchy]] and a parliamentary [[democracy]]. The prime minister of Sweden is 41 year old Fredrik Reinfeldt, leader of the Moderates. The Swedish parliament has 349 seats. [[Carl XVI Gustaf]] is the current king. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==People==&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden has one of the world's highest life expectancies. The country counts at least 17,000 Sami among its population. About one-fifth of Sweden's population are immigrants or have at least one foreign-born parent. The largest immigrant groups are from Finland, Iraq, Serbia and Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Iran, Norway, Denmark, and Poland. This reflects Nordic immigration, earlier periods of labor immigration, and later decades of refugee and family immigration. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Swedish is a Germanic language related to Danish and Norwegian but different in pronunciation and orthography. English is by far the leading foreign language, particularly among students and those under age 50. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden has an extensive child-care system that guarantees a place for all young children from 2-6 years old in a public day-care facility. From ages 7-16, children attend compulsory comprehensive school. After completing the ninth grade, 90% attend upper secondary school for either academic or technical education. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Swedes benefit from an extensive social welfare system, which provides for childcare and maternity and paternity leave, a ceiling on health care costs, old-age pensions, and sick leave among other benefits. Parents are entitled to a total of 480 days' paid leave between birth and the child's eighth birthday, with 60 of those days reserved specifically for the father. &lt;br /&gt;
*Population (November 2007): 9,179,731. &lt;br /&gt;
*Annual population growth rate (2007): 0.76%.&lt;br /&gt;
*Ethnic groups: Indigenous Swedes, ethnic Finns, ethnic Sami.&lt;br /&gt;
*Immigrants: Total: 491,996 (20% of total population); Finns, Iraqis, ex-Yugoslavia nationals, Iranians, Norwegians, Danes, Greeks, and Turks.&lt;br /&gt;
*Religions: Lutheran (87%), Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim.&lt;br /&gt;
*Education: Years compulsory--9. Literacy--99%.&lt;br /&gt;
*Health: Infant mortality rate (2006)--2.80/1,000. Life expectancy--men 78.70 years, women 82.94 years.&lt;br /&gt;
*Work force (4.82 million, 2007 est.): Services--70.7%; industry--28.2%; agriculture--1.1%. Unemployment (2007)--5.2%. &lt;br /&gt;
*Public holidays (2008): January 1 (New Year's Day); January 6 (Epiphany); March 21 (Good Friday); March 22 (Easter); March 23 (Easter Sunday); March 24 (Easter Monday); May 1 (May Day and Ascension Day); May 11 (Whit Sunday); June 6 (National Day); June 21 (Midsummer Holiday); November 1 (All Saints' Day); December 25 (Christmas); December 26 (Boxing Day). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The eve of a holiday is as important--or more so--than the holiday itself. Most Swedes have the day off, including those working in the civil service, banks, public transport, hospitals, shops, and the media. Others have at least a half-day. This applies especially to Midsummer's Eve, All Saints' Day Eve, and Christmas Eve. The eve of May Day is called Valborg Eve or St Walpurgis. When a holiday falls on a Thursday many Swedes have the following Friday off in addition. When a holiday falls on a Saturday or Sunday it is not taken on the following Monday. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Christianity in Sweden====&lt;br /&gt;
80% of the inhabitants belong to the Evangelical [[Lutheran Church]] of Sweden named The Swedish Church (Svenska kyrkan in Swedish). The number is so high because children born to members of the church automatically become lifelong members. This church is somewhat unique because it has decided to agree to perform a blessing ceremony for [[homosexuality|homosexuals]] engaging in registered partnership (full marriage for same sex couples is a matter of debate in Sweden). This Church is considered a [[liberal]] Church and does not protest against [[abortion]]s, [[divorce]], and other conservative issues. About 5% of the Swedish population belong to &amp;quot;conservative&amp;quot; Christian churches.&lt;br /&gt;
Regardless of the church membership polls suggest that 46-85% of Swedes to be either agnostics, atheists or non-believers of gods.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the 1960s the government decided to reduce education about Christianity in [[public school]]s.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 2000, the Evangelical Lutheran Church and the government were separated. Before that, all children were born members of the church, except those whose parents took an active decision against it and both left the church. Even if a child were not christened, he or she became a member for life, having to pay a small tax to the church.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In 2005 a Swedish Pentecostal preacher, [[Ake Green|Åke Green]], was charged with, and found guilty of hate speech, when preaching Biblical teachings regarding homosexuality. He was imprisoned for one month, but then acquitted by the High Court and the Supreme Court.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Abortion in Sweden==&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden provides taxpayer-subsidized, no-questions-asked [[abortion]]s during the first 18 weeks of [[pregnancy]]. During the following four weeks, [[women]] are required to get special permission for abortions. Swedish politicians are currently discussing whether foreign women should be allowed to have an late term abortion in Sweden, and it is possible that the parliament will vote in favor of that proposition.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Government==&lt;br /&gt;
Popular government in Sweden rests upon ancient tradition. The Swedish parliament (Riksdag) stems from tribal courts (Ting) and the election of kings in the Viking age. It became a permanent institution in the 15th century. Sweden's government is a limited constitutional monarchy with a parliamentary system. Executive authority is vested in the cabinet, which consists of a prime minister and 22 ministers who run the government departments. The present Alliance for Sweden government, led by Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt, came to power in September 2006. King Carl XVI Gustaf (Bernadotte) ascended to the throne on September 15, 1973. His authority is formal, symbolic, and representational. The unicameral Riksdag has 349 members, popularly elected every 4 years, and is in session generally from September through mid-June. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden has three levels of government: national, regional, and local. In addition, there is the European level which has acquired increasing importance following Sweden's entry into the EU. At parliamentary elections and municipal and county council elections held every four years, voters elect those who are to decide how Sweden is governed and administered. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden is divided into 18 counties (lan), 18 county councils (landsting), 290 municipalities (kommuner), and 2 semi-independent regions. Each county (lan) is headed by a governor, who is appointed by the central government. The counties coordinate administration with national political goals for the county. The county council (landsting) is a regional government that is popularly elected with particular responsibility for health and medical care. The municipalities are local governments that deal with issues such as education, public transportation and social welfare. Elected municipal councils are headed by executive committees roughly analogous to the boards of commissioners found in some U.S. cities. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Swedish law, drawing on Germanic and Roman law, is neither as codified as in France and other countries influenced by the Napoleonic Code, nor as dependent on judicial practice and precedents as in the United States. Legislative and judicial institutions include, in addition to the Riksdag, the Supreme Court, the Supreme Administrative Court, the Labor Court, the Law Council, District Courts and Courts of Appeal, the Public Prosecutor's Office, the parliamentary ombudsmen and the Chancellor of Justice who oversee the application of laws with particular attention to abuses of authority. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
At the national level, the Swedish people are represented by the Riksdag (Swedish parliament) which has legislative powers. Proposals for new laws are presented by the government which also implements decisions taken by the Riksdag. The government is assisted in its work by the government offices, comprising a number of ministries, and some 300 central government agencies and public administrations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Principal Government Officials=== &lt;br /&gt;
*Head of State--King Carl XVI Gustaf &lt;br /&gt;
*Prime Minister (Head of Government)--Fredrik Reinfeldt &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Finance--Anders Borg &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for the Environment--Andreas Carlgren &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Justice--Beatrice Ask &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Foreign Affairs--Carl Bildt &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for EU Affairs--Cecilia Malmstrom &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Social Security--Cristina Husmark Pehrsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Agriculture--Eskil Erlandsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for International Development Co-operation--Gunilla Carlsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Health and Social Affairs--Goran Hagglund &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Higher Education and Research--Lars Leijonborg&lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Education--Jan Bjorklund &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Culture--Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Elderly Care and Public Health--Maria Larsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Local Government and Financial Markets--Mats Odell &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Enterprise and Energy--Maud Olofsson &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Defense--Sten Tolgfors &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Integration and Gender Equality--Nyamko Sabuni &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Trade--Ewa Bjorling &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Employment--Sven Otto Littorin &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Migration and Asylum Policy--Tobias Billstrom &lt;br /&gt;
*Minister for Infrastructure--Asa Torstensson &lt;br /&gt;
*Ambassador to the United Nations--Anders Liden &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Political Conditions===&lt;br /&gt;
Ordinary general elections to the Swedish parliament are held every fourth year on the third Sunday in September. County council and municipal council elections take place at the same time. The last elections were held in September 2006. There is a barrier rule intended to prevent very small parties from gaining representation in the parliament. A party must thus receive at least 4% of the votes in the entire country or 12% in a single electoral district to qualify for any seats. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Elections to the Riksdag were held on September 17, 2006. The Alliance for Sweden (a coalition of four center-right parties--the Moderate Party, the Liberal Party, the Christian Democrat, and the Center Party) won 178 of the 349 seats, securing Moderate Fredrik Reinfeldt the position of Prime Minister. The 2006 election results for Sweden's major parties were as follows: the Social Democratic Party (34.99%; 130 seats), the Moderate Party (26.23%; 97 seats), the Center Party (7.88%; 29 seats), the Liberal Party (7.54%; 28 seats), the Christian Democrats (6.59%; 24 seats), the Left Party (5.85%; 22 seats), and the Green Party (5.24%; 19 seats). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Social Democratic Party has a base of blue-collar workers and public sector employees. It derives much of its power from strong links with the National Swedish Confederation of Trade Unions (LO), which represents blue-collar workers. The party program combines a commitment to social welfare programs and government direction of the economy. The Social Democratic Party has led the government for 65 of the 76 years since 1932; the 2006 election ended its most recent term of 12 consecutive years in office. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Moderate Party emphasizes personal freedom, free enterprise, and reduction of the public-sector growth rate, while still supporting most of the social benefits introduced since the 1930s. The party also supports a strong defense and Sweden's membership in the European Union (EU). Its voter base is urban business people and professionals, but the party also attracts young voters, main-street shop owners, and, to some extent, blue-collar workers. Moderate Party Leader Reinfeldt followed an election strategy of remodeling his party as &amp;quot;New Moderates,&amp;quot; moving away from the party's right-wing, upper-class roots to appeal to a large middle ground of voters, and successfully winning over many who had until then supported the SDP, as well as others who had previously voted for the smaller, non-socialist parties. Reinfeldt was instrumental in uniting the previously divided four parties of the center-right opposition. The Alliance offered alternative policies focusing on job creation that persuaded the voters. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Center Party maintains close ties to rural Sweden. The main priorities of the party include providing a sound economic climate for business and job creation, climate change and environmental concerns (including nuclear power), and health and welfare issues. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Left Party, formerly the Communist Party, focuses on feminist issues, employment in the public sector, and the environment. It opposes privatization, cuts in public expenditure, Swedish participation in NATO activities, and EU membership. Its voter base consists mainly of young people, public sector employees, feminists, journalists, and former social democrats. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Christian Democrat Party is conservative and value-oriented. Its voter base is primarily among members of conservative churches and rural populations. Christian Democrats seek government support for families and better ethical practices to improve care for the elderly. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Liberal Party's platform is &amp;quot;social responsibility without socialism,&amp;quot; which includes a commitment to a free-market economy combined with comprehensive Swedish social welfare programs. Foreign aid, education and women's equality also are popular issues. The Liberal Party base is mainly centered in educated middle-class voters. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Green Party is a leftist environmentalist party that attracts young people. The Greens support a phasing-out of nuclear energy in Sweden and hope to replace it with alternative, environmentally friendly energy sources. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The next Swedish election for parliament is scheduled to be held in 2010. In 2009 Sweden will vote for its representatives to the European Parliament. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Foreign Relations===&lt;br /&gt;
Swedish foreign policy is based on the premise that national security is best served by staying free of alliances in peacetime in order to remain neutral in the event of war. In 2002, Sweden revised its security doctrine. The new security doctrine still states that &amp;quot;Sweden pursues a policy of non-participation in military alliances,&amp;quot; but permits cooperation in response to threats against peace and security. The Swedish Government devotes particular attention to issues of disarmament, arms control, and nuclear nonproliferation and has contributed importantly to UN and other international peacekeeping efforts, including the NATO-led peacekeeping forces in the Balkans (KFOR). Sweden also contributes to the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan and assumed leadership of the Provincial Reconstruction Team in Mazar e-Sharif in March 2006. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden participates actively in the United Nations and its specialized and related agencies, including the World Bank, World Trade Organization (WTO), Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO), the International Labor Organization (ILO), International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (USESCO), World Health Organization (WHO), and others including as a member of the Security Council in 1997-98. In January 1995, Sweden became a full member of the European Union after a referendum in late 1994 indicated that 52.3% of participants wanted to join. Sweden became a member in part due to its increasing isolation outside the economic framework of the Maastricht Treaty. Sweden is a member of NATO's Partnership for Peace (PFP) and participates in numerous international peacekeeping operations under UN auspices. Sweden also cooperates closely with its Nordic neighbors, formally in economic and social matters through the Nordic Council of Ministers and informally in political matters through direct consultation. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Swedish governments do not consider that nonalignment precludes taking outspoken positions in international affairs. Government leaders have favored national liberation movements that enjoy broad support among developing world countries, with notable attention to Africa. During the Cold War, Sweden was suspicious of the superpowers, which it saw as making decisions affecting small countries without always consulting those countries. With the end of the Cold War, that suspicion has lessened somewhat, although Sweden still chooses to remain nonaligned. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Economy ==&lt;br /&gt;
Sweden is a highly industrialized country. Agriculture, once accounting for nearly all of Sweden's economy, now employs less than 2% of the labor force. Extensive forests, rich iron ore deposits, and hydroelectric power are the natural resources which, through the application of technology and efficient organization, have enabled Sweden to become a leading producing and exporting nation. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Swedish economic picture has brightened significantly since the severe recession in the early 1990s. Growth has been strong in recent years, with an annual average GDP growth rate of 2.5% for the period 2000-2004 and 2.7% in 2005. The inflation rate was low in 2006, with an annual average inflation rate of about 1.5%, but unemployment remains a stubborn problem. The inflation rate rose to 3.5% in December 2007. The unemployment rate held steady in recent years at about 5% and in 2005 reached 7.8%. Unemployment in 2007 reached 5.2%. Since the mid-1990s, Sweden's export sector has grown significantly as the information technology (IT) industry, telecommunications, and services have overtaken traditional industries such as steel, paper, and pulp. The overall current-account surplus has traditionally been much smaller than the merchandise trade balance, as Sweden has generally run a deficit on trade in services, net income flows, and unrequited transfers. However, since 2003 this has not been the case, as the services balance swung into surplus in 2003 and improved further in 2004 and 2005. In addition, the income account also swung from deficit into surplus in 2003, before slipping back to register small deficits in 2004 and 2005. Although the transfers balance remained in deficit, mainly as a result of Sweden's contributions to the EU budget, the overall current-account surplus was larger than the trade surplus in 2003-05. Most categories of services exports produced an improvement over this period, but the biggest contribution came from business services exports, followed by transportation and royalties and license fees. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
During 2005 real GDP rose by 2.5%, 3.4% in 2006, and 2.9% (est.) in 2007. The government budget improved dramatically from a record deficit of more than 12% of GDP in 1993 to a surplus of 0.9% of GDP in 2006. The new, strict budget process with spending ceilings set by parliament, and a constitutional change to an independent Central Bank, have greatly improved policy credibility. This can be seen in the long-term interest rate margin versus the Euro, which is negligible. From the perspective of longer-term fiscal sustainability, the long-awaited reform of old-age pensions entered into force in 1999. This entails a far more robust system vis-à-vis adverse demographic and economic trends, which should keep the ratio of total pension disbursements to the aggregate wage bill close to 20% in the decades ahead. Taken together, both fiscal consolidation and pension reform have brought public finances back on a sustainable footing. Gross public debt, which jumped from 43% of GDP in 1990 to 78% in 1994, stabilized around the middle of the 1990s and has been decreasing in recent years. In 2007 public debt was about 35.6% of GDP. These figures show excellent improvement of the Swedish economy since the crisis of the early 1990s. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Eighty percent of the Swedish labor force is unionized. For most unions there is a counterpart employers' organization for businesses. The unions and employer organizations are independent of both the government and political parties, although the largest federation of unions, the National Swedish Confederation of Trade Unions (LO), always has maintained close links to the largest political party, the Social Democrats. There is no fixed minimum wage by legislation. Instead, wages are set by collective bargaining. &lt;br /&gt;
*GDP (2007, purchasing power parity): $308.9 billion. GDP (2007, official exchange rate): $384.1 billion.&lt;br /&gt;
*Annual growth rate (3rd quarter 2007): 2.5%.&lt;br /&gt;
*Per capita income (2006, purchasing power parity): $33,897. &lt;br /&gt;
*Inflation rate (December 2007): 2.2%. &lt;br /&gt;
*Natural resources: Forests, hydroelectric power, iron ore, copper, lead, zinc, gold, silver, tungsten, uranium, arsenic, feldspar, timber.&lt;br /&gt;
*Agriculture (2006, 2.2% of GDP): Products--dairy products, meat, grains (barley, wheat), sugar beets, potatoes, wood. Arable land--6 million acres.&lt;br /&gt;
*Industry (2006, 38% of GDP): Types--machinery/metal products (iron and steel), electrical equipment, aircraft, paper products, precision equipment (bearings, radio and telephone parts, armaments), wood pulp and paper products, processed foods.&lt;br /&gt;
*Services (2006, 59.8% of GDP): Types--telecommunications, computer equipment, biotech.&lt;br /&gt;
*Trade: Exports (2006)--$148.8 billion. Types--machinery, transport equipment, motor vehicles, wood products, paper, pulp, chemicals, iron and steel products, and manufactured goods. Major trading partners, exports (2007)--Germany 9.9%, U.S. 9.3%, Norway 9.1%, U.K. 7.2%, EU total 59.7%. *Imports (2006)--$127.3 billion. Types--machinery, petroleum and petroleum products, chemicals, motor vehicles, iron and steel, foodstuffs, clothing. Major trading partners, imports (2007)--Germany 18.6%, Denmark 8.9%, Norway 8.5%, U.K. 6.9%, Netherlands 6.1%, Finland 6.0%, France 4.9%. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History==&lt;br /&gt;
see [[History of Sweden]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Some Notable Swedes==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Alfred Nobel]], inventor of dynamite; founded the [[Nobel Prize]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Anders Celsius]], inventor of the world standard [[Celsius scale]].&lt;br /&gt;
* Carl von Linné  (Carolus Linnaeus) inventor of the modern system of classifying all lifeforms.&lt;br /&gt;
* Greta Garbo, actress&lt;br /&gt;
* ABBA - 1970's rock group comprised of Benny Andersson, Björn Ulvaeus, Anni-Frid Lyngstad and Agnetha Fältskog.&lt;br /&gt;
* Dag Hammarskjöld, UN leader&lt;br /&gt;
* Astrid Lindgren&lt;br /&gt;
* Fredrik Ljungberg &lt;br /&gt;
* Henrik Larsson&lt;br /&gt;
* Stellan Skarsgård&lt;br /&gt;
* Saint Bridgid&lt;br /&gt;
* Lars Magnus Ericsson&lt;br /&gt;
* Gustavus Adolphus (king, founder of Gothenburg etc, died 1632 in the Thirty Years War)&lt;br /&gt;
* Björn Borg, tennis player&lt;br /&gt;
* Olof Palme, prime minister&lt;br /&gt;
* Ingemar Bergman, actress &lt;br /&gt;
* Roxette&lt;br /&gt;
* Jussi Bjoeling&lt;br /&gt;
* Laurentius Petri, archbishop and reformer&lt;br /&gt;
* Lewi Pethrus (1884–1974), founder of the Swedish Pentecostal movement&lt;br /&gt;
* Olaus Petri, reformer&lt;br /&gt;
* Nathan Söderblom, archbishop and Nobel Peace Prize laureate&lt;br /&gt;
* Erik Trolle, bishop and statesman&lt;br /&gt;
* Kettil Karlsson Vasa, bishop and statesman&lt;br /&gt;
* Saint Birgitta (1303–1373), patron saint of Europe&lt;br /&gt;
* Emanuel Swedenborg (1688–1772), writer, mystic and philosopher&lt;br /&gt;
==Further reading==&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Sweden'' (Eyewitness Travel Guides) by DK Publishing (2005) [http://www.amazon.com/Sweden-Eyewitness-Travel-Guides-Publishing/dp/0756609135/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584198&amp;amp;sr=1-1 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Frommer's Sweden'' ed. by Danforth Prince (2009) [http://www.amazon.com/Frommers-Sweden-Complete-Danforth-Prince/dp/0470432144/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584198&amp;amp;sr=1-2 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* '' Lonely Planet Sweden'' ed.  by Carolyn Bain and Graeme Cornwallis (2003) [http://www.amazon.com/Lonely-Planet-Sweden-Carolyn-Bain/dp/1740592271/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584640&amp;amp;sr=1-25  excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
* ''The Rough Guide to Sweden'' ed. by James Proctor and Neil Roland (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/Rough-Guide-Sweden-Travel-Guides/dp/1843536854/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584198&amp;amp;sr=1-5 excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
*---&lt;br /&gt;
* Hancock, M. Donald ''Politics in Europe: An Introduction to the Politics of the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden'' (2006) [http://www.amazon.com/Politics-Europe-Introduction-Kingdom-Germany/dp/1933116455/ref=sr_1_27?ie=UTF8&amp;amp;s=books&amp;amp;qid=1241584640&amp;amp;sr=1-27  excerpt and text search]&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.sweden.se SWEDEN.SE]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.svenskakyrkan.se Svenska Kyrkan]&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.lo.se &lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.moderaterna.se&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=913&amp;amp;a=324428&lt;br /&gt;
*http://www.gluefox.com&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.livetsord.se/default.aspx?idStructure=918&lt;br /&gt;
* http://perkornhall.se/LivetsOrd/index-eng.htm&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.skattebetalarna.se&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/History/MacKinder/mackinder.html&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/UN/UK/UK-NWE-Norway/index.html&lt;br /&gt;
* http://www.sweden.se/templates/cs/Article____12355.aspx&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2880.htm source for much of this article; not copyright]&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references /&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:European Countries]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:EU Members]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Scandinavian Countries]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Sweden]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:European History]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>ConservaPeter</name></author>
	</entry>
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