Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

User talk:DanH

2007-05-11T08:29:31Z

CliveN: Hangarian dinosaurs

'''Archive:''' http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:MountainDew
==Much Better==
Nice suit, fits real good. Do you like mine?[[User:Rob Pommer| Rob Pommer]][[User_talk:Rob_Pommer|talk]]

==Thatcher==

Would you have objections to the Thatcher edits? The article was clearly one sided, which is not in the spirit of this encyclopedia.

==?==

Cut what out exactly?

:I didn't add any of the names...I simply tidied up the page, like the table. [[User:Wattylfc|Wattylfc]] 15:37, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

==Big edits==
Thanks for the tip. Why the name change, MountainDew? [[User:GodlessLiberal|GodlessLiberal]] 17:54, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
::I see... I don't think your old discussion page redirects to your new one. Might want to put a redirect in there too so people don't get confused. [[User:GodlessLiberal|GodlessLiberal]] 17:56, 16 April 2007 (EDT)

==Thanks!==

Thanks for blocking Iamwhoiam. I hate having to sit here and revert all that nonsense when I can be contributing to articles! --[[User:Thammersmith|Thammersmith]] 15:19, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

[http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3ACrocoite&diff=132272&oldid=132268 Thanks for the revert!] [[User:Crocoite|Crocoite]] [[User_talk:Crocoite|Talk]] 18:19, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

== Main Page ==
i did not write the comment on encyclopediac standards. I deleted the f word in the comment and you banned the user.[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]] 01:16, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

--------------
I took a screen shot of those ban messages lol. I shall post them under the heading "Look what conservapeida bans you for". Indeed. I shall never run our of IPs dude so why ban me?
-----
will you not ban me if i just stay on talk pages?

Oh well ban me if you want i need to get a good night sleep school tomorow.

Have a nice night (or day depending on your geologial position)

== Lazarus ==

The new article [[Lazarus (Parable)]] is ready. But I am not able to make the disambig to ([[Lazarus]]).

Could you please do it?

--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 16:21, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

:Thank you!

::--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 16:54, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

== Good luck ==

with that paper. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 23:58, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

==vandals==

Here's my question - some people are creating articles that have offensive titles, but benign content. In these situations, I can delete the content, but the offensive title still exists on a site. I know the Sysops can delete these entirely, but is there anything I can do to erase that material? All I know to do is alert Sysops of the problem, but if nobody is available to delete it immediately, the articles can sit on the site and look bad for the site. Any ideas? --[[User:Thammersmith|Thammersmith]] 13:27, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

== Please vote for me ==

Please vote for me here: http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Request_for_Bureaucratship [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:10, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

== Eagle... ==

I was too slack to make Eagle (it doesn't help if one is not a US citizen)... but does that make me a Scout for Life? [[User:Human|Human]] 02:39, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

==Question==
Question for you on the [[Conservapedia_talk:Request_for_Bureaucratship]] page. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 14:35, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

:Nevermind ... saw your reason. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 14:37, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

==Grandpa!==
Nananana Batman!

* 14:43, 24 April 2007 DanH (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Cherry-picking" (too much speculation)

Thanks, MountainDew. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 14:45, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

Quick catch there of "Andrew Nissian"! Thanks!--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 01:54, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

==Hey Dan==
I just wanted to ask why the Ted Stevens got reverted out of the "internet" article. The series of tubes statement is getting passed around a lot and I think people need to know where it came from.1

==New Age==
What was wrong with my edits to [[New Age]] that they had to be reverted? I didn't use the {stub} template on that one. [[User:DrSandstone|DrSandstone]] 13:38, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

== Budapest ==
I understood.--[[User:Kádár Tamás|Kádár Tamás]] 19:12, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

== Beaver ? ==

''"Jeremiah, after seeing your edits to Biscuit and Beaver, I don't know why I haven't blocked you yet."''

I really don't know what you're talking about here; my [[Beaver]] article is '''entirely factual'''.

Lots of animals are classified as fish by the Catholic Church for Lenten dietary purposes; I thought that was an interesting beaver-related fact. I will get you a citation for it... Here [http://anvil.unl.edu/agnes/RecreatingLent.htm]

Had I wished to create a properly satirical article about ''Beavers'' it would surely have been rather different, just run the implications of the word through your mind...

(My biscuit article was entirely factual too, that sort of thing really does go on - again I can get you a reference if you like.) If you considered the material to be irrelevent or inappropriate, you were free to remove it. Defining it as vandalism (and blocking me for it) was a most unfair and disproportionate reaction in my opinion.

You've blocked me unjustly once, and now you're persecuting me about the content of a completely authentic article. Please stop doing this. --[[User:Jeremiah4-22|Jeremiah4-22]] 20:27, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

==Just wondering==

What could I do to gain your trust? [[User:Flippin|Flippin]] 15:31, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
Well, I can't say I agree with your assessment of the "edit war" at Fargo. The source was eventually added, btw, so I think I was right. [[User:Flippin|Flippin]] 09:34, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

== NAMBLA ==

I certainly don't advocate for NAMBLA or the inclusion of the link, but for the sake of knowledge, NAMBLA has never explicitly supported man-boy love; they promote the legalization of such activity. Sick perverts... --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 17:37, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

== Mammon ==

I need an expert. I found this article, and it was a hostile rant, but not without some truth. I changed it to create a structure, but I don't know enough about the topic to feel comfortable adding a lot of content. Could you or someone else with knowledge help out?--[[User:JoyousOne|JoyousOne]] 20:36, 26 April 2007 (EDT)
==[[User:JeffersonDarcy]]==
I endorse the block on JeffersonDarcy; I was going to do it myslelf and with a 12 hour block using [http://www.conservapedia.com/User:CPAdmin1/Proposed_Block_Policy#Edit_Warring Edit Warring] as a Guideline. He can't say he wasn't warned, [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Conservapedia:Abuse&diff=prev&oldid=131570] and I want to make a record I support it. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:06, 27 April 2007 (EDT)
:I screwed up, as a guideline this reads [http://www.conservapedia.com/User:CPAdmin1/Proposed_Block_Policy#Between_A_Sysop_and_a_non_Sysop 3 hours to one week] after the warning. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:10, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

== Vandal ==
No problem. Thanks for blocking him. [[User:Murray|Murray]] 15:45, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

:Any idea on how to tag this guy, Dan? I blocked some of his IP's I found via Traceroute, but he's still coming back. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 17:48, 27 April 2007 (EDT)
::This guy really needs to get a life. My annoyance with him is negated by my laughs over his pathetic hobby. --[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']][[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]] 14:15, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
No joke. Doesn't he have anything better to do on a Sunday? [[User:DanH|DanH]] 14:15, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

== Polap Srewdna ==

he didn't edit, why the block?

== You can talk to me directly==

Mate, I an't hiding anything feel free to ask me anything, anytime. [[User:Tmtoulouse|Tmtoulouse]] 18:16, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Take another look at my contributions the past few days since the reversal of my block. Take a look at what icewedge has contributed to the site in the last few days. Then ask whether a post by icewedge with a vague cryptic remark on my wikipedia talk page tips the scales relative to my contributions to put me under investigation. If you are curious about why I post that message on various talk pages, feel free to ask me directly. [[User:Tmtoulouse|Tmtoulouse]] 18:21, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

No harm, no foul. I am only pressing this point because I am a member of this community, there is WAY to much of this SYSOPS vs. Editors war floating around. Lets work towards breaking down that wall. We are both humanbeings, whatever usergroup we are in shouldn't force use to talk past or around each other.

As to why I post that message, take a look at the users I post it too. They are not vandals, they are not people that are bad. They are people that have a political, scientific, and cultural view much like my own. They also share a common interest in wiki editing and have decided to try conservapedia out. Much like myself. This is a group of people with a lot in common. We like to talk to each other about a range of things. Its off-topic to CP and doesn't belong here. So when I see someone that I think would be interested in our group I invite them to contact me and we talk about it. Nothing nefarious there. [[User:Tmtoulouse|Tmtoulouse]] 18:26, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

:Toulouse would've told me if there was a conspiracy. I feel left out of there is one that he's hiding from me.-'''AmesG'''[http://www.conservapedia.com/User_talk:AmesG yo!] 20:04, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

I was too quick to judge and I apologize again for it. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 20:05, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

== Page Delete Request ==

Could you please delete a page for me. I'm an idiot and was working while watching tv. I accidentally mistyped the page I wanted as "Deviance Behaviour" instead of "Deviant Behaviour". I can't figure out how to undo it, so it must mean I can't. Thanks --[[User:TrueGrit|TrueGrit]] 00:01, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

==Bohdan==
I see you're still having trouble with Icewedge. His post on Bohdan's userpage looks like they're working together. Do you think a block of Bohdan is necessary? [[User:Reaganomist|Reaganomist]] 14:18, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

i have no involvment with him[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]]

== Simpsons are really liberal ==

Homer punched out George Bush and called president Bush Commander Kookoobananas. Not to mention that he supported Republican parodys Mr. Burns as governor and sideshow Bob. Somebody should show how liberal they really are!!!

::I think the Simpsons speaks for itself. If one can't pick up on the undertones by themselves, then they are an idiot.--[[User:Elamdri|Elamdri]] 17:08, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
:::Leftists strike again. Are you going to accuse me of being "inbred" and living in a "trailer" for your next act?--[[User:ILikeCookies|ILikeCookies]] 17:12, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
::::I wasn't making fun of you. I just think that going around telling people the Simpsons carries a liberal message is a redundant act. Most people who watch the Simpsons already know that it carries said message, and if they don't they're either burying their heads in the sand, or they really are just ignorant.--[[User:Elamdri|Elamdri]] 17:14, 28 April 2007 (EDT)
::The Simpsons are satire, especially early seasons. They make fun of everybody. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 17:22, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

== Vandal attacks ==

[[User:Conservative|Conservative]] must resign as a sysop before there is any chance of the vandal attacks ending. [[User:Davros|Davros]] 15:34, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
:I think we have evidence icewedge is a sock of an active contributor; let me pull up the suspect list [[Conservapedia:Request for Bureaucratship#Oppose 5]]. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:43, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
::Let me get this straight: Expressing one's opinion in a democratic manner is grounds for suspicion? --[[User:AKjeldsen|AKjeldsen]] 19:40, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
:::I tell ya, what makes ''me'' suspicious is when a brand new user "knows their way around" CP, and almost instantly has a handful of UXBs set up. They should all be clumsy newbies, like I was! [[User:Human|Human]] 20:08, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
::::C'mon - you're still a newbie, Human. I mean, you haven't even been threatened with the 90/10 rule yet, have you? --[[User:AKjeldsen|AKjeldsen]] 20:12, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
:::::Hahaha, well, actually, that's probably the one rule they could ''never'' bust me on. Have you checked my alleged contribs lately? The only thing I've been accused of is relying on myth-filled, distorted YEC science texts. Oh, and I was mean to someone who used very poor grammar once, but Ed (I think) deleted it and I fixed it and sorried for it. What ''does'' make me a n00b, I guess, is not knowing what all this fuss over evolution is about? [[User:Human|Human]] 20:22, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
::::::I don't think anyone knows what it's about. [[User:GodlessLiberal|GodlessLiberal]] 20:25, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

== Here is something I put on the main page regarding getting more web traffic to Conservapedia ==

[[Getting Web Traffic to Conservapedia - Article Creation/Improvement Drive]] [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 21:29, 29 April 2007 (EDT)conservative

==Page deletions==

Thanks for the recent deletions of unwanted British articles, they seem to be spreading a vast web of lies over us, ill try and keep my eye out for them. [[User:Jennisuk|Jennisuk]] 13:34, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

what on earth is "unwanted" and who decides? I note that [[faggot]] has been deleted; http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/faggotswithoniongrav_3899.shtml is the first google hit for "faggots" (through google.co.uk). These things are easily verifiable without even consulting wikipedia. --[[User:Olly|Olly]] 15:02, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Likewise the article on Chip Shops, the Ham Shank and Tommy Toley, all much loved British cultural treasures. Is it true that 90% of Americans have no passport and are not interested in anything outside the US of A? [[User:Tommy Toley|Tommy Toley]] 15:06, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

:Yes, just like 78.9% of all statistics are made up on the spot.--[[User:Elamdri|Elamdri]] 15:13, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Surely 77.4% is the approved Conservative figure. That 78.9% number looks very LIBERAL to me. GUARDS!!!!!! [[User:Tommy Toley|Tommy Toley]] 15:15, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

earlier you twice deleated the page [[faggot]]. can you delete it again, or is it now allowed?[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]]

== Faggot ==

Whay on earth are you protecting Faggot? This is the kind of filth I protest at and you are protecting it? What kind of sysop are you? [[User:DrSnoddy|DrSnoddy]] 18:30, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

It would appear that you have deleted and protected an article on Northern English cuisine. I fail to see how this could be controversial. Is this a case of Anglophobia or racsism? An Encyclopedia should cover all knowledge (that's what the word means). Perhaps you could expand your reasons for this. [[User:MontyZuma|MontyZuma]] 18:43, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Further (non-Conservopedia) research has led me to conclude that what we in the UK consider the main meanings of the word faggot are unfortunately almost completely unknown in the United States of America, where the word has merely the most unsavoury connotations (as I learned earlier this evening from the now deleted article). It is unfortunate but a fact that some words have been denuded of their wholesome content and effecively rendered unfit for polite usage. Faggot appears to be one such word, though I will continue to munch on and indeed cook with faggots as long as I breathe British air.

Such staple words of the English language should not be tainted in such a way. It was bad enough finding out that "gay" means something other than happy and that the tadger is no longer purely descriptive of the pocket billiards cue. Queen Elizabeth herself should issue a proclamation and prevent the noble langue d'Anglaise from further bowdlerising. [[User:William H Bhuna|William H Bhuna]] 18:42, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

William, I agree in principle, yet amcoming to recognize increasingly that Conservapedia is very much an American undertaking. I expect 'bowdlerise' also means something frightful in Colonial parlance.[[User:DDWatkinsIII|DDWatkinsIII]] 18:46, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Quite possibly, they are that far from the Queen's presence that surely all those hamburgers and MTV have tainted their minds. And DanH, I consider it rude for you to block me as I was merely correcting an unfortunate spelling of the town of Thirsk - home of a fine church and a finer brewery dating back over 300 years. When you have some history dating back farther than that, feel free to excersise your "right" to block me. Until then, make sure you salute the Queen before every meal and pray to the TRUE flag, the Union Jack. we exiled you rabble once and you raped the langue D'Anglais, you no longer support your true queen and you heathens never even invented cricket. Call that civilised? [[User:William H Bhuna II|William H Bhuna II]] 18:57, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Did I miss something? What unsavoury connotation could be construed from a faggot when it is a savoury dish - i.e. not sweet. Perhaps some ignorance has interfered with the Queen's or indeed King's English as faggots go back many hundreds of years. Any way please enlighten me on how it is unacceptable.[[User:MontyZuma|MontyZuma]] 18:51, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Strange as it may seem, Mr. Zuma (and it is a pleasure to communicate with you), the word faggot, though in the English language it calls to mind nothing more unwholesome than a meaty mouthful of beef, dripping with copious quantities of gravy, or a short firm stick of the burning kind, in the American demotic appears to refer to the unspeakable sect of Bulgars and their Carthigensian praxii. I hope my meaning is clear. [[User:DDWatkinsIII|DDWatkinsIII]] 19:01, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

I take your point, I had forgotten about the Bashi-bazouks. I can understand some discomfort regarding the negative connotations of faggot adopted in the erstwhile colonies but surely the page could have been protected intactum before any untoward vandalism occurred. In this way inquiring minds would have been directed down a wholesome path of truth rather than S & G deviance. I am well reminded of Matthew 7:3-5
<pre>And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye,
but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the
mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.</pre>
Deviance is in the eye of the beholder. Let the innocent come forth and speak the truth without fear. [[User:MontyZuma|MontyZuma]] 18:59, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== Question==
can you delete [[User:Sisterhix]] and the talk page? You blocked this user yesterday(blocked "Sisterhix (contribs)" with an expiry time of infinite (racism)) and the comments on the page are offensive to Jews(specifically the use of "kike").[[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]]

== From Conservapedian ==

Thanks for the welcome.--[[User:Conservapedian|Conservapedian]] 01:34, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== Image Protection ==

Why are you protecting all the images? [[User:ColinR|ColinR]][[User_talk:ColinR|talk]] 02:23, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

*Andy ordered that we do, Colin. Because users are going in and substituting what is there for porn. I believe we chatted about that last night, no? If we didn't, please forgive me for not mentioning it, I should have. --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 02:52, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

== IP Trace and Madison ==

Alternatively, he could have gone to any one of the open computer labs. Each department likely has a lab or two, along with each dormitory, each library, and each wireless hot spot. Each one of these has a distinct set of IP addresses. Ultimately, to block it will probably be necessary to block access to all three class B networks that are owned by the UW Madison. With possible 65,534 addresses per network, there is quite a bit of room for distinct IP addresses. --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 15:20, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

There were only two distinct IP addresses for these users, whereas the other vandal we've had from the same university only had one IP address, which makes me think that they were different people. My theory is that the other one just operated out of his dorm room or something. It's possible, though. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 15:22, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

== images ==

Hi Dan, could you please fix the image in [[New Mexico]] for me? I can't seem to get the hang of situating images in the pages here yet, I'm still learning "wiki" formatting. I added some info to the page, but now I can't get the photo that was already there to look right - could you please help? It's much appreciated, thanks! --[[User:Taj|Taj]] 15:58, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

== [[Vladimir Putin]] ==

In response to your question in an edit summary ("does anybody know how to fix it so that this source doesn't show up twice in the references list?"), [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Vladimir_Putin&diff=145357&oldid=143767 this] is how you do it.

== Thanks ==

Your rewording of Hinderburg clarified it very well. Thank you.[[User:MoshiachNow|MoshiachNow]] 17:12, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

== commandments broken ==

Sources should be revealed. True and veriable. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 17:39, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

==good work==
reverting/blocking. tried to help a little [[User:Flippin|Flippin]] 13:35, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

== [[Leo Tolstoy]] ==

Both are great writers.

--[[User:Joaquín Martínez]], [[User talk:Joaquín Martínez|talk]] 18:03, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

==Reverts==

If you have difficulties with some of my edits Dan, I would appreciate some kind of feedback as to why that is the case. I am always willing to learn, but silence isn't a good teacher. Thank you [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 04:40, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

*We usually ask such questions on the discussion page for the article involved, Learn Together. Since Dan has to be up in 5 hours for classes, let me help you some. The material about the Clinton's rarely seeing each other smacks of gossip, and I would have deleted that. The part about his not running for a third term is likewise redundant, and not relevant, as he never once considered it, in fact since the Constitutional Amendment was passed some sixty-five years ago, no President has considered it, because the Constitution forbids it. Those are just off the top of my head. Please don't take editing personally, as that is the nature of wiki's in general. If you need more questions asked, just let me know! --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 04:56, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

::Thank you. I could see getting to sleep could be important. ;-) My main concern is in understanding what to expect. Based upon what I have observed, I'm assuming it is customary to have a sysop check all entries as they occur and determine if he believes the edits are appropriate? If that's the case, then that's fine, it's your house and your rules. I'm here as a guest, albeit, one who is hopefully answering your call to expand and improve articles. It was a string of reverts without comment that I felt needed clarification. Any extra understanding you could give me if I am in the ballpark would be appreciated. [[User:Learn together|Learn together]] 11:39, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

== Monetzuma deletion ==

DanH, I have had a few discussions with Mr. Schlafly over user MontyZuma whom he thinks you blocked. All I am asking is if you apologized did you unblock him? Mr. S says it is up to you. [[User:Ian St John|Ian St John]] 18:28, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

*I wonder if someone creating another account, to skirt a block, and proclaiming their innocence is akin to someone on trial claiming, as they always do in most cases, they too are innocent? Hindsight is indeed a wonderful thing, but one most of us are not blessed with, eh? You know who blocks each and every user, because the list is available for all to see. What it is that drives people to be unrelenting in making an example of someone who is only doing their best, simply because they are perceived as having "authority"? --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 20:10, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

::Not sure what your'e getting at TK but thanks for pointing me towards the who-blocked-who list, I didn't know about it before. I can see that it was Aschlafly who implemented the block not DanH. A bit odd that he denied it. Anyway I have been diverted too much by this as I was only looking for a quote I had seen and got intrigued.[[User:Ian St John|Ian St John]] 01:37, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

*You should be chatting with Auld Nick, he often doesn't understand either. I believe DanH gave him a short block, and Andy later extended it. Always read down a bit more after you find the name you are looking for. ;-) --[[User:TK|Sysop-TK]] [[User_talk:TK|/MyTalk]] 01:48, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

== Thanks for your positive comments ==

Regarding [[Conservapedia:Sysop_contest/Nominations/HeartOfGold]], I Just wanted to thank you for your positive comments. [[User:HeartOfGold|HeartOfGold]] 03:08, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

== Blocked yet again ==

Why was I blocked for, and I quote, "Radiohead"? Yes, I am a Radiohead fan but I hardly see how this is grounds for blocking me. [[User:InAnInterstellarBurstIAmBackToSaveTheUniverse|InAnInterstellarBurstIAmBackToSaveTheUniverse]] 18:16, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

You seem to be picking violent lyrics. i.e. we hope you choke. All of these lines suggest ill will against the site. Plus, the site owner expressed concern about them. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 18:17, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

== Blocking of Ian St John ==

Dan, Thanks for your apology. I know it was an honest mistake. Don't feel too bad about it. [[User:Ian St John|Ian St John]] 18:45, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

== Hangarian dinosaurs ==

Whay did you delete the bit I wrote about stegosaurus in hungary? my Grandma and grandpa are both from there and they are the ones that told me and some of their freinds say it is true. - CliveN

Dinosaur

2007-05-11T08:18:56Z

CliveN: /* Dinosaurs-like creatures in history and modern sightings */

[[Image:Fdt566e4.jpg|right|thumb|400px|Triceratops skeleton at the American Museum of Natural History.]]
'''Dinosaurs''' were large, reptilian creatures which are now believed to be extinct. The word '''dinosaur''' was coined in 1841 by Richard Owen<ref>[http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v14/i3/dinosaurs.asp Dinosaurs and dragons: stamping on the legends], ''Answers in Genesis''</ref>, from the [[Greek]] word δεινόςσαύρα, meaning "terrible lizard."

==Highlights of the history of dinosaur paleontology==

In the United States during the 1900s, the public imagination was caught by the discoveries of [[Henry Fairfield Osborn]] (1857-1935) and the great competitive dinosaur hunters, [[Edward Drinker Cope]] (1847-1897) and [[Othniel Charles Marsh]] (1831-1899). Exploring in Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico, they found numerous fossil dinosaurs. Their museums worked out the techniques for mounting and displaying them.

Osborn was a proponent of ''orthogenesis,'' as were many paleontologists up through the middle of the twentieth century. These paleontologists interpreted the fossil record as showing sustained, continuing, unidirectional trends in evolution, which they felt required some kind of driving principle in addition to natural selection. As the author of an encyclopedia article on variation and selection put it in 1911,
:Selection cannot create the materials on which it is supposed to operate... Both sides concur in the position assumed by Darwin, that the word "chance" in such a phrase as "chance variation" does not mean that the occurrences are independent of natural causation and so far undetermined, but covers in the first place our ignorance of the exact causation.... No doubt a large amount of variation is truly indefinite, so that many meaningless or useless variations arise... But there are several directions in which the field of variation appears to be not only limited but defined in a certain direction.... When beetles, or medusae, or cats vary, the range of possible variation is limited and determined by the beetle, medusa or cat constitution, and any possible further differentiation or specialization must be in a sense at least orthogenetic - that is to say, a continuation of the line along which the ancestors of the individual in question have been forced. Darwin himself showed that different species in a genus, or varieties in a species, tended to show parallel variations.<ref>Mitchell, Peter Chalmers (1911), ''Variation and Selection,'' ''Encyclopædia Britannica, 11th edition,'' volume 27 (TON-VES), p. 906</ref>

[[Roy Chapman Andrews]] (1884–1960), said to be the prototype for the fictional Indiana Jones, is famous for his discovery of fossil dinosaur eggs in Outer Mongolia.

In the 1970, Robert Bakker catalyzed a new era of dinosaur paleontology with evidence that dinosaurs were fully warm-blooded ([[endotherms]]) and fast-moving.<ref>Benton, Michael J. (2000), ''Vertebrate Paleontology'' [http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0632056142&id=PQuKO7xqjNQC&pg=PA217&lpg=PA217&dq=%22robert+bakker%22&sig=imoHNyurTTCpztNV0Pp2EU7Fj6c p. 217]</ref>

==Dinosaur Species==
Dinosaurs were immensely varied, and included both herbivores and carnivores. Although many have been found in the fossil record, paleontologists expect that they have barely scratched the surface of the vast genus that the dinosaurs encompassed.<ref>[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/09/060905-dinosaurs_2.html Vast Majority of Dinosaurs Still to Be Found, Scientists Say], ''National Geographic''</ref>

== Different Perspectives ==

Ever since the discovery of dinosaur fossils, there has been debate about whether and how dinosaurs fit into the history of life on Earth.

Christians are often depicted as believing that God planted the fossils to test their faith, and it's true that some Christians believe that dinosaurs never existed.
Few creationists believe this.
Most people accept that dinosaurs existed.
Young-Earth creationists, however, reject the [[uniformitarian]] time-scale, and therefore believe that humans and dinosaurs co-existed.
Creationists also reject the now-popular idea that dinosaurs evolved into birds.

===Creationary Perspective===

[[Creationism|Young Earth Creationists]] believe, based primarily on Biblical [[sources]], that dinosaurs were created on day 6 of the [[Creation Week|creation week]]<ref>''Genesis'' 1:25</ref> approximately 6,000 years ago, along with other land animals, and therefore co-existed with humans.
As such, they reject the [[Theory of Evolution]] and the beliefs of evolutionary scientists about the age of the earth.

They believe that dinosaurs lived in harmony with other animals, (probably including in the [[Garden of Eden]]) eating only plants<ref>''Genesis'' 1:29-30</ref>; that pairs of each dinosaur [[kind]] were taken onto [[Noah's Ark]] during the [[Great Flood]] and were preserved from drowning<ref>[http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3967/ Were dinosaurs on Noah’s Ark?], ''Creation Ministries International''</ref>; that many of the fossilized dinosaur bones originated during the mass killing of the Flood<ref>Carl Wieland, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/219/ Dinosaur bones—just how old are they really?], ''Creation'', vol. 21 No. 1 p. 54</ref>; and that possibly some descendants of those dinosaurs taken aboard the Ark are still around today.<ref Name="Today">Robert Doolan, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/833/ Are dinosaurs alive today?], ''Creation'', vol. 15 No. 4 p. 12.</ref>

They use [[archaeological]], [[fossil]], and documentary evidence to argue that dinosaurs co-existed with mankind until at least relatively recent times.

Because the term only came into use in the 19th century, the [[Bible]] does not use the word "dinosaur." However, they are alleged to be mentioned in numerous places throughout the biblical account. For example, the '''behemoth''' in [[Job]] and the '''leviathan''' in [[Isaiah]] are sometimes said to be references to dinosaurs,<ref>Allan K. Steel, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/1799 Could Behemoth have been a dinosaur?], ''Journal of Creation'' vol. 15 No. 2 p. 42.</ref> <ref>[http://www.answersincreation.org/job4041a.htm], ''Answers in Creation''</ref>, although others have claimed that Behemoth and Leviathan are references to a hippopotamus or elephant and a crocodile respectively. Young-Earth creationists point out that the descriptions don't fit these creatures, including that hippopotamuses and elephants don't have a "tail like a cedar". However, Behemoth could also not be a dinosaur because Behemoth is described as having "force in the navel of his belly." Since dinosaurs are oviparous, a dinosaur couldn't possibly have a navel.

==== Extinction ====

Creationists reject the "Great Impact Theory", pointing out multiple problems with this theory. <ref>Jonathan Sarfati, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/2426 Did a meteor wipe out the dinosaurs?].</ref>

Creationists assert that evolutionists are frequently coming out with a "New Theory of Dinosaur Extinction" and that their theories are laden with false assumptions. <ref>Michael Matthews, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/1115dinosaur.asp Dinosaur demise theory, version #451], ''Answers in Genesis''</ref> It is worth noting, however, that more and more of these theories are being harmonized with one another.<ref>[http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=21082 More Than a Meteor Likely Killed Dinosaurs 65 Million Years Ago], ''SpaceRef.com''</ref>

====Dinosaurs-like creatures in history and modern sightings====

Creationists cite a number of reasons to believe that dinosaurs have existed until relatively recent times, and perhaps still survive.

* There have been a number of claimed sightings of dinosaur-like creatures.
** A thousand people reported seeing a dinosaur-like monster in two sightings around Sayram Lake in Xinjiang according to the Chinese publication, China Today.<ref name="Today" />
** Among those who believe in the existence of the [[Loch Ness Monster]], one popular theory is that it is a living [[plesiosaur]].<ref>"New Quest Is Haunted By 'Nessie'", ''The New York Times,'' July 14, 1992, p. C4: "Believers say it resembles a plesiosaur and was trapped in Loch Ness during the Ice Age 12,000 years ago. The plesiosaurs were marine reptiles who are thought to have lived 65 million to 200 million years ago."</ref>
** Locals in the Congo have reported a creature they name ''Mokele-member''<ref name="Today" /><ref>[http://www.mokelembembe.com/ Mokele-mbembe The Living Dinosaur!]</ref>, and from its description it appears to be a small plant-eating dinosaur. The reports have been taken seriously enough that a biologist from [[Chicago University]] has made several expeditions to find the creature. Another biologist has reported seeing the creature.<ref name="Today" />

* There are drawings of creatures resembling dinosaurs.
** An expedition which included Charles W. Gilmore, Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology with the United States National Museum, examined an ancient pictograph which he claimed portrays dinosaurs and man coexisting.<ref>[http://www.creationism.org/swift/DohenyExpedition/Doheny01Main.htm Doheny Scientific Expedition, Hava Supai Canyon, Arizona], ''Creationism.org''</ref><ref>[http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/read/the_hava_supai_dinosaur_carving The Hava Supai Dinosaur Carving], ''ChristianCourier.com''</ref>.
** The Nile Mosaic of Palestrina, a second century piece of art, is said to appear to be a piece of artwork that shows a dinosaur and man coexisting. <ref>[http://www.s8int.com/dinolit2.html Dinosaurs in Literature, Art & History-- Page 2], ''s8int.com''</ref>
** Engravings in the floor of [[Carlisle Cathedral]] appear to be of dinosaurs. They are on the tomb of bishop Richard Bell, who died in 1496.<ref>See picture on page 241 of Batten, Don, et. al., 2007, ''The Creation Answers Book''.</ref>

* Creatures matching dinosaurs and similar creatures have been described by various people groups.
** The description of the "[[Thunder bird]]" of [[American Indian]]s matches the descriptions of [[pterosaur]]s.<ref name="Today" />

* Descriptions of [[dragon]]s are widespread and match descriptions of dinosaurs, suggesting that dragons were real creatures and were actually dinosaurs.<ref>Talk.Origins argues ([http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CH/CH712.html Claim CH712], ''TalkOrigins.org'') that the inclusion of dinosaurs within many cultures is based on the existence of fossils. Ancient people, unaware that the ancient fossils uncovered by erosion were of extinct animals, attributed the bones to living, magical creatures. This would explain the importance of dragons in Chinese culture - there are a large number of dinosaur (as well as non-dinosaur) fossils to be found in China. CreationWiki's response ([http://creationwiki.org/Dragons_were_dinosaurs Dragons were dinosaurs] (rebuttal of Talk.Origins' claim CH712)) is that the fossils reminded people of the legends, not that the fossils inspired the legends.</ref>
** The World Book Encyclopedia states that: "The [[dragon]]s of legend are strangely like actual creatures that have lived in the past. They are much like the great reptiles [dinosaurs] which inhabited the earth long before man is supposed to have appeared on earth." <ref>Quoted in [http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/FAQ25.html What about the Dinosaurs?], ''CreationScience.com''</ref>. Dragons exist in the folklore of many European and Asian cultures.<ref name="WB2000">''Dragon'' entry in World Book Millennium 2000 CD ROM</ref> World Book Encyclopedia says, "In Europe, dragons are traditionally portrayed as ferocious beasts that represent the evils fought by human beings. But in Asia, especially in China and Japan, the animals are generally considered friendly creatures that ensure good luck and wealth."<ref Name="WB2000" />
** Dragons appear in the flag of [[Wales]], in traditional [[China|Chinese]] [[New Years' Day]] celebrations, and in the Chinese [[calendar]]. Every other creature on the calendar is a real creature.

* That dinosaurs are not known from the fossil record above the [[Jurassic]] strata is not reason to believe that they have not survived until more recent times.
** Living specimens of orders of animals that were believed to have been extinct for millions of years have been found before, such as the Diatomyidae Squirrel <ref>[[Diatomyidae]] Squirrel [http://news.softpedia.com/news/They-Thought-It-Went-Extinct-11-Million-Years-Ago-19557.shtml]</ref>, the [[Wollemi Pine]] <ref>Wollemi Pine Biotechnology Australia [http://www.biotechnologyonline.gov.au/enviro/wollemi.cfm]</ref> and the [[Coelacanth]] <ref>Sulawesi Coelacanth. University Of California, Berkeley[http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/vertebrates/coelacanth/coelacanths.html]</ref> <ref>More on the Coelacanth marinebio.org[http://marinebio.org/species.asp?id=54]</ref>.

* The recent dinosaur tissue find is a strong rebuttal of the claim that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. <ref>Carl Wieland, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3042 Still soft and stretchy], ''Creation Ministries International''</ref>

*Reports of dinosaur like stegosaurus were common on parts of [[Hungary]], but they aren't seen any mre since the [[Second World War]].



==== Dinosaurs and birds ====

Creationists contend that the idea that birds are descendants of dinosaurs is not demonstrated by the evidence <ref>[http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/3833/106/ Bird evolution?], ''Creation Ministries International''</ref> <ref>Andy McIntosh, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/540/ 100 years of airplanes—but these weren’t the first flying machines!], ''Creation'' vol. 26 No. 1 p. 44</ref>, and that the dinosaur-bird connection is even disputed by some evolutionists.

In his article, "Fifteen ways to refute materialistic bigotry", Dr. [[Jonathan Sarfati]] wrote regarding dinosaurs being descendants of birds:
<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">
The same logic applies to the dinosaur-[[Bird|bird]] debate. It is perfectly in order for creationists to cite [[Alan Feduccia|Feduccia]]’s devastating criticism against the idea that birds evolved ‘ground up’ from running dinosaurs (the cursorial theory). But the dino-to-bird advocates counter with equally powerful arguments against Feduccia’s ‘trees-down’ (arboreal) theory. The evidence indicates that the critics are ''both'' right — birds did not evolve either from running dinos or from tree-living mini-crocodiles. In fact, birds did not evolve from non-birds at all!
<ref>Jonathan Sarfati, [http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/2610 15 ways to refute materialistic bigotry], ''Creation Ministries International''</ref>
</blockquote>

Creationists also cite the evolutionist [[Ernst Mayr]] who in 1942 stated the following:

“It must be admitted, however, that it is a considerable strain on one’s credulity to assume that finely balanced systems such as certain sense organs (the eye of vertebrates, or the bird’s feather) could be improved by random mutations." <ref>[http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/ReferencesandNotes10.html In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood], ''Center for Scientific Creation''</ref>

The March 2003 issue of ''Scientific American'' is also cited by creationists:

<blockquote style="background: #F9F9F9; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA; padding: .3em;">
"Of all the body coverings nature has designed, feathers are the most various and the most mysterious...The origin of feathers is a specific instance of the much more general question of the origin of evolutionary novelties--structures that have no clear antecedents in ancestral animals and no clear related structures (homologues) in contemporary relatives. Although evolutionary theory provides a robust explanation for the appearance of minor variations in the size and shape of creatures and their component parts, it does not yet give as much guidance for understanding the emergence of entirely new structures, including digits, limbs, eyes and feathers...." <ref>Michael Matthews, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2003/0313sciam.asp Scientific American admits creationists hit a sore spot], ''Answers in Genesis''</ref> <ref>[http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000CD7F6-B16F-1E41-89E0809EC588EEDF Which Came First, the Feather or the Bird?], ''Scientific American''</ref>
</blockquote>

Creationists also assert that the comparative anatomy analysis done by evolutionists comparing bird bones and dinosaur bones is flawed. <ref>Dr. David N. Menton, [http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2005/0328discovery.asp "Ostrich-osaurus" Discovery?], ''Answers in Genesis''</ref>

----

===Evolutionary Perspective===

The view of [[Theory of evolution|evolutionists]] and others who accept the uniformitarian timescale is that dinosaurs existed on earth from 230 million years ago to 65 million years ago.
In this view, the entire population of dinosaurs were wiped out by a mass extinction event (usually thought to be an asteroid) about 65 million years ago.
Of course this precludes humans and dinosaurs co-existing.

====Extinction====

According to most scientists, close to 65 million years ago, at the end of the [[Cretaceous]] period, and the beginning of what is called the [[Tertiary]] period, an event occurred which has come to be known as the [[K-T Event]]. This event would have obliterated most life on Earth, plunging the world into something that would now be likened to global nuclear winter, through which few extant species could survive. Although these scientists dispute the nature of the K-T Event (selecting among any number of catastrophes that could have caused the significant global cooling that resulted), most find that the claimed K-T Event was caused by the collision of a massive asteroid with the Earth, the dust and debris from which would have shrouded the sky for thousands of years, cooling Earth considerably.<ref>Kevin O Pope, "Meteorite impact and the mass extinction of species at the Cretaceous/Tertiary boundary," Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, available at [http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/95/19/11028]</ref> According to this view, the dinosaurs did not survive this cataclysm.<ref>[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0823_020823_asteroid.html Prehistoric Asteroid "Killed Everything"], ''National Geographic''</ref> The dust from this impact is supposedly still visible as a line of metal of extraterrestrial origin and is often visible in sediment worldwide, occurring as a result of the vaporization and then fall of dust from the meteorite's impact, and its compression within the subsequent geological record.<ref>''Ibid''</ref> The crater is also visible.<ref>[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/03/0307_030307_impactcrater.html "Dinosaur-Killer" Asteroid Crater Imaged for First Time], ''National Geographic''</ref>

====An Explosion of new species ====

The mass extinction of the dinosaurs removed a major food competitor, and predator, of smaller animals. As a result of a new "vacancy" in the food chain, following the [[K-T Event]], vast speciation occurred, as the evolutionary pressure of a new cold age propelled animal species to adapt or die out. According to this view, [[mammals]] were some of the main beneficiaries of this explosion: their fur allowed them to adapt to the cold, and their small size allowed them to conserve energy relative to the huge dinosaurs of the previous age.<ref>Bennet, Shostak, Jakotsky, "Life in the Universe," viewable at [http://www.amazon.com/Life-Universe-Jeffrey-Bennett/dp/0805385770]</ref>

====Dinosaurs and Birds====

As a number of feathered fossils (claimed to be dinosaurs) have been discovered, and evolutionary scientists claim the similarity in the bone structure between birds and dinosaurs show that modern birds are a descendants of dinosaurs. This is often cited as an example of [[macroevolution]].<ref>[http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/10/1006_041006_feathery_dino.html New Dinosaur Discovered: T. Rex Cousin Had Feathers], ''National Geographic''</ref>

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:Dinosaurs]]