Forest

2007-02-23T05:26:51Z

Bob:

Forests are collections of trees as a whole, or large areas of trees. Forest is to trees as [[macroeconomics]] is to [[microeconomics]].

Forest is the opposite of trees.

Debate:Was it wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?

2007-02-23T05:19:37Z

Bob:

Absolutely not. The attack was necessary to gird the hearts and loins of patriotic but unmotivated Americans to win the war against un-American forces. The 3000 innocents killed were a tragic loss, to be sure, but without them a terrible dictator would still be gassing his own people, and developing weapons to use against us. These are the terrible but necessary choices a Commander-in-chief must make.

[[User:Bob|Bob]]

Did he really?! I havn't heard of this but will research it. If he did know thEn he was wrong.

[[User:BenjaminS|Ben]]

Are you sure that would be wrong if Roosevelt did know? I think effective war strategy makes those kind of decisions. In chess it's called a "[[gambit]]".

--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 10:46, 1 January 2007 (EST)

:I'm guessing that "him" was Franklin D. Roosevelt and "the attack" was Pearl Harbor. The conditions leading up to Pearl Harbor are ''extremely'' controversial and I don't think the idea that Roosevelt knew is accepted as fact.

:However, there is an incident, about which there's no doubt, that raises a similar moral question.

::Oops. I take it back. There is doubt. Oh, well. I read about this in Anthony Cave-Brown's book, ''Bodyguard of Lies,'' but apparently its truth has been questioned. Well, here's the story anyway: [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 12:24, 1 January 2007 (EST)

:During the Second World War, the Allies broke the German coding system known as "[[Enigma]]," a fascinating story involving the early development of computers and [[Alan Turing]]. The Germans did not know the code had been broken. The Allies were therefore continually faced with the moral dilemma of whether or not to act on the information they decrypted. If they were to act on it too often, the Germans would suspect the code had been broken and change the coding system, stopping the flow of information.

:In November of 1940, the Allies learned, through a decrypted message, that the Germans intended to conduct an air raid on Coventry. They decided that it was more important to keep the secret of ''Ultra,'' their decrypting system, and therefore did not warn Coventry or take any protective measures. Germany attacked with three hundred bombers, killing over five hundred people, destroying tens of thousands of homes and a medieval cathedral. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 12:24, 1 January 2007 (EST)

:: Dpbsmith describes the dilemma extremely well. I've been meaning to add an entry on the Enigma, and hope to do so this afternoon.

:: I don't have a definite view about how to solve this dilemma. It's a good topic for debate and discussion. What's your view, Dpbsmith?

:: I do think it's clear that Roosevelt had advance warning of the Pearl Harbor attack, by the way. I think we may have moved one key aircraft carrier or battleship out of the way (moving more ships would have tipped the Japanese). Also, simply radar would have given us an hour's notice, and 2,400 sailors need not have died unless as a gambit for a greater objective.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:28, 1 January 2007 (EST)

::: I thought the incoming Japanese aircraft ''were'' seen on radar, but the radar operator couldn't believe they were really being attacked and misidentified them as an expected flight of incoming B17's? [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 17:42, 1 January 2007 (EST)

:::: Boy, that sounds very odd! But you may be right, and I have not researched this further.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 17:44, 1 January 2007 (EST)

::::: Don't you think it would be good if you research these things BEFORE you present them as fact?

:::::Here is a section from ''A Patriot’s History of the United States'', by Larry Schweikart and Michael Allen that addresses the matter:

'''''Did Roosevelt Have Advance Knowledge About the Pearl Harbor Attack?'''''

“Even as the last smoke billowed from the sinking ships in Hawaii, many people were asking how the United States could have been so unprepared. Historian Charles Tansill suggested that the debacle could only have could only have occurred with Franklin Roosevelt’s foreknowledge. Clearly, if a president in possession of advance warning had allowed hundreds of sailors and soldiers to die in a surprise attack, it would have constituted high treason. Why would any chief executive permit such a strike?
In his famous book, ''Back Door to War'' (1952), Tansill accused Roosevelt of allowing a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor to provide the United States with the motivation and justification to enter the war against Hitler in Europe. …but little new evidence was provided over the years until the 1980s, when John Tolland published Infamy, wherein he claimed to have located a navy witness who, while on duty in San Francisco, received transmissions locating Japanese carriers and forwarded the information to Washington. Adding to Toland’s revelations, a “Notes and Documents” piece in the American Historical Review disclosed that the FBI had acquired information from an Axis double agent named Duskow Popov (“Tricycle”), who had information on a microdot about the attack. Although Tolland and others maintained that Popov’s documents included a detailed plan of the Japanese air attack, it did no such thing. Tricycle’s data dealt almost exclusively with buildings and installations, but had nothing on ships, aircraft scouting patterns, or any of the rather important items that one would expect from a “detailed plan.” In 1981, Asian historian Gordon Prange published ''At Dawn While We Slept''; following his death, his students Donald Goldstein and Katherine Dillon completed his work with new Pearl Harbor claims in ''Pearl Harbor: The Verdict of History''. The authors found Toland’s mystery sailor, Robert Ogg, who empathetically rejected Toland’s assertion that he had said that he had intercepted massive Japanese radio traffic. Meanwhile, Documents acquired from Japanese archives raised a more serious problem for the conspiracy theorists because they proved that the Japanese fleet had been under strict radio silence during the voyage to Pearl Harbor.
The controversy refused to go away. In1999, Robert B. Stinnet’s ''Day of Deceit'' revived the argument that Roosevelt had prior knowledge of the attack with important new code-breaking information. But the crucial pieces of “evidence” that Stinnet employed often proved the opposite of what he claimed. He used precise intelligence terms—code breaking, interception, translation, analysis—interchangeably, which produced massive errors: An intercepted document is not necessarily broken, and if intercepted and broken, it may not be translated, and if intercepted and broken, and translated, it may not be analyzed for days, weeks, or even years. Some intercepts from November 1941 were indeed broken, but were not translated or analyzed until…1945!
The entire argument of the revisionists hinges on the notion that FDR couldn’t get into the war with Germany without pretext. But Roosevelt had already had ample cause if he’d wanted to, to ask for a declaration of war against Germany. Nazi U-boats had sunk American ships, killed American sailors, and in all ways shown themselves hostile. Against a nation that declared war on Mexico over a handful of Cavalry troopers or that had declared war on Spain for the questionable destruction of a single ship, Germany had long since crossed the line needed for a declaration of war. …Pearl Harbor was a Tragedy, but not a conspiracy. <ref>A Patriot’s History of the United States Pages 594-595</ref>

--[[User:ChrisS|Chris]] 11:18, 31 January 2007 (EST)

Mr. Schlafly, DPBSmith is right about the Japanese bombers appearing on the American radar screen. (''Air Raid- Pearl Harbor!'') American leaders, even those in the military, did not believe that an initial Japanese attack would come on Pearl Harbor. They believed such an attack would come on the Philippines, Wake Island, or Midway Island. As a matter of fact, the US carriers ''Lexington'' and ''Enterprise'' were ferrying F4F Wildcat fighter planes to further fortify Midway and Wake. Even the Secretary of War did not believe the news when it reached him. He exclaimed, "This can't be true! This must mean the Philippines!" --[[User:DuncanB|DuncanB]] 14:39, 9 January 2007 (EST)

===References===

<references/>

Stealth bomber

2007-02-23T05:14:16Z

Bob:

A stealth bomber is an aircraft utilizing advanced technology that makes it invisible, or stealth, on radar and other electronic detection systems. The Lockheed F-117A Nighthawk was the world's first operational aircraft based entirely on stealth technology. It was designed in the late 1970s by the highly creative "Skunk Works" engineering team at Lockheed, and first manufactured in 1981. It is flown exclusively by [[United States Air Force]].

Its "F-" label, usually reserved for fighters, may be for political purposes. The F-117A is not a fighter aircraft but is a "ground-attack" aircraft designed for precision bombing. However, the "F-" label is more politically popular and also may attract better pilots.

The F-117A has been surpassed by a more effective design, the [[F-22 Raptor]], and the Air Force plans to retire F-117 from October 2006 to 2008. No new pilots will be trained on that aircraft afterwards.

[[Image:Stealth-bomber.jpg]]

The bomber depicted here is a B-2 spirit, and largly unrelated to the above text.

User talk:Bob

2007-02-23T00:50:22Z

Bob:

Bob, you made an unsupported claim in your change to someone else's entry. This is a warning. A second time will result in blocking.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 22:46, 21 February 2007 (EST)

The claim I made replaced another unsupported claim, and had the advantage of being factually accurate. However, I will cite reference next time.

George W. Bush

2007-02-22T03:46:45Z

Bob:

Is the president of the United States of America. Was elected in 2000, and then re-elected in 2004.

Some of his successes are:
Defeating Saddam Hussein.
Prevented any further terrorist attacks on US soil (since September 2001).
Cut taxes.

Some of his failures are: began an intractable war based on false intelligence. Undermined the authority of the US constitution. Supported torture. Slashed benefits for war veterans and their families.

Macroevolution

2007-02-22T03:38:20Z

Bob:

The theory that [[natural selection]] can, given enough time, transform an [[organism]] into a completely different kind of organism. This process requires that the genetic material of an organism must be added to. The process is well documented in the fossil record, with hundreds of clear transitional fossils found.

Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Forest

Debate:Was it wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?

Stealth bomber

User talk:Bob

George W. Bush

Macroevolution