Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Debate:Did God create evil?

2007-12-18T17:49:58Z

Belacqua:

Of course God made everything, but man sinned and that means evil came into the world by one man. Actually [[Satan]] sinned first but you could say that God created the opportunity for him to sin. Why do you think an omnipotent, omiscient God allowed Satan to rebel in the first place?
Better yet, why do you think God didn't just start over after Adam and Eve ruined his plans for a perfect society? [[User:StevenM]] Oct 20 2007 18:10

In terms of Adam and Eve you really have to ask where was god when they were talking to the talking snake. Also the basic logic being that if god made man and man sins then it would be the biproduct of god. [[User:Concretemuncher]]

One of the greatest gifts God gave his intelligent creations (angelic or human) was the capacity of free will ... the ability to make choices and to serve Him out of love and desire. Blaming God for the choices made by intelligent people would be like blaming parents who provide the best environment for their child, including an abundance of love and ensuring that nothing is lacking - including a positive purpose in life, and whose child then becames a criminal. The problem is not with the parent ... it is with the child. James 1:14-15 warns that sin is the result of someone allowing an improper desire to develop. Satan wanted the worship of humans, Eve wanted to be like God (able to independently decide what is good and bad), and Adam valued being with his wife more than obedience to God.

* God himself acknowledges his ability to foreknow the future. (Isaiah 46:10) Apparently He chooses to be selective when he uses the ability as is evidenced in other Bible accounts (e.g.., the test of Abraham's faith re: Isaac (Genesis 18:19; 22:11, 12)) and the fact that He extends the opportunity to ''all'' mankind to be reconciled to Him. (Acts 17:30, 31) It would be grossly unfair of God to invite ''all'' mankind to repent if He already ''knew'' which ones would not succeed.
** By selectively using his foreknowledge, God dignifies each of us with the opportunity to prove ourselves loyal to Him and provide an answer to Satan's challenge (Proverbs 27:11) and has the ability to find joy in His own life. Consider how boring your life would be if you knew every facet (the good, the bad and the mundane) of how others would treat you. What might seem advantageous to begin with would quickly grow dull.
* Why not start over after the rebellion in Eden? Satan called God a liar and challenged God's sovereignty (His ''right'' to rule), implying that mankind would be better off without God's rulership. Wiping out the three rebels at that time would not have answered the questions raised by Satan in a setting viewed by millions of angels.
** So God has allowed both Satan and mankind the opportunity to prove whether or not they can successfully rule independently of His guidance. (Jeremiah 10:23) At the same time he has made arrangements to allow those that want to serve Him an opportunity to learn about him (the Bible), to come into an approved relationship with him (the sacrifice of Christ Jesus) and enjoy the prospect originally offered to Adam & Even (eternal life in paradise on earth).
** Not to be overlooked is the fact that God immediately provided a means by which he would undo the effects of this rebellion. In the Bible's first prophecy (Genesis 3:15) God foretold that he would provide a Seed that would crush Satan (Romans 16:20). 1 John 3:8 tells us that Christ was made manifest to break up the works of the Devil. In short, there is no evil act that has been done or can be done that will not be undone. Isaiah 65:17 foretells that the "former things will not be called to mind" and Revelation 21:1-5 promise an end to tears, death, mourning, outcry and pain.
[[User:Brentleigh]]

HUGE DONKEY PENIS

== No ==
...but he created [[Liberal|Liberals]]. (poor attempt at fun by [[User:Leopeo|Leopeo]] 14:51, 10 December 2007 (EST))

Noah

2007-12-18T17:49:29Z

Belacqua:

According to [[Genesis]], '''Noah''' ([[Hebrew]] '''נוֹחַ'''), the son of [[Lamech]] was commanded by [[God]] to build an ark to save his family and representatives of all the world's land animals while God destroyed the wicked world with a flood<ref>Gen. 6:6</ref>.
The story of Noah is found in the [[Bible]] in chapters 6 to 9 of [[Genesis]] and he is described as one of the 'Heroes of Faith' in [[Book of Hebrews|Hebrews]] chapter 11.<ref>He is also mentioned in the [[chronogenealogy]] of Genesis 5 and mentioned by Isaiah and Peter.</ref>

== Life ==

God saw that man had become wicked in every inclination and thought and the earth was filled with violence, but Noah alone was righteous, because he sucked on so much cock and that's what YHWH likes to see, huge donkey dicks being swallowed. God commanded Noah to build an [[Noah's Ark|ark]] that would have seven (or seven pairs) of every "clean" ([[kosher]]) animal and two of every unclean animal Noah did as he was told and spent many years building the ark, and God flooded the earth with rain from above and waters from within the earth. Noah was 600 years old when the flood started. After the flood waters had subsided, (which lasted almost a year), Noah came out of the Ark. Noah made sacrifices to God and God formed a new covenant with Noah where he promised never again to flood the earth. Noah planted a vineyard and drank of the wine until he fell asleep naked in his tent. [[Ham]], the father of [[Canaan]], saw him and told his two brothers, but left his father as he was. The two brothers, upon hearing Ham's pronouncement, took a garment and walked backwards into their father's tent and covered his nakedness without looking at him. When Noah awoke, he cursed Canaan, his grandson, for he "knew what his younger son had done unto him."<REF>Bible, King James Version, Genesis 9: 24,25</REF>. Noah lived 350 more years before dying.

All people alive today must be descendents of Noah and his family:
{{Bible quote|book=Genesis|chap=7|verses=13,23|version=KJV|In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark. ... And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.}}

== Flood Accounts ==
{{main|Great Flood}}

Many cultures have a tradition of a global flood and the biblical account has many commonalities with these accounts.
[[Young Earth Creationism|Young Earth creationists]] argue that this supports the claim that the flood was a real event.<ref>Morris, John, [http://www.icr.org/article/570/ Why Does Nearly Every Culture Have a Tradition of a Global Flood?] (ICR)</ref>

== Family of Noah ==
''In Genesis, Chs 5 and 10, we are told:''

The sons of '''Noah''' were [[Shem]], [[Ham (son of Noah)|Ham]] and [[Japheth]]

The children of '''Shem''' were [[Elam]], [[Asshur]], [[Arphaxad]], [[Lud]] and [[Aram]]

The sons of '''Ham''' were [[Cush]], [[Mizraim]], [[Phut]] and [[Canaan]]

The sons of '''Japheth''' were [[Gomer (son of Japheth)|Gomer]], [[Magog]], [[Madai]], [[Javan]], [[Tubal]], [[Meshek]] and [[Tiras]]

== See also ==
*[[Noah's Ark]]
*[[Great Flood]]

== Notes ==
<references />

[[Category:Biblical persons]]

Talk:Human reproduction/draft

2007-12-18T17:42:42Z

Belacqua:

The vagina (vaginæ, plural), derived from the Latin word for sheath, is the tubular tract leading from the uterus to the exterior of the body in the female of mammals, or to the cloaca in female birds, monotremes, and some reptiles. Female insects and other invertebrates also have a vagina, which is the terminal part of the oviduct.

"Vagina" is normally used in non-scientific parlence to refer to entirety of the female genitalia. This is inacurate however. It retains great cultural significance as the primary female sexual organ.

----

'''Human reproduction''' is the mechanism by which we perpetuate our species.

In order for human reproduction to occur, a woman must become pregnant through either sexual intercourse of assisted reproductive technology. Most cultures enshrine this activity within a union we call marriage, a lifelong, legally sanctioned, bond between one man and one woman.

Sexual intercourse involves the man inserting his penis into the female's vagina, and thrusting until ejaculation occurs within the female.

[[Image:http://www.pueblo.gsa.gov/cic_text/health/treat-prost/prost.jpg]]

In reproduction through sexual intercourse, the male and female gametes, the sperm and egg, are united. These gametes carry just one half of the genetic material (chromosomes) from each parent, and when they combine the new embryo contains a full set of chromosomes. This process of gamete combination is called fertilization, and takes place inside the woman's body, in the fallopian tubes or uterus. The embryo then attaches itself to the uterine lining, and is nourished by the woman's body while it develops. This development takes roughly nine months.

At the end of this process of protected development, what was once an embryo is now born as a new baby. Human babies are relatively helpless, and depend on the care and love of their parents in order to survive to maturity themselves.

Humans only reproduce sexually, that is, individuals are not able to reproduce alone by budding, parthenogenesis, or self-cloning as some species are capable of. In addition, human gender is fixed, unlike some species, females are not able to become male or vice versa to deal with homogenous populations of one gender.

'''''Comment:''' I think I gave that a pretty good try.'' [[User:Human|Human]] 18:18, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

I think that this article should start with some basic anatomy and physiology, i.e. the anatomy of the male and female reproductive organs and the production of gametes before we move into talking about coitus. I think that it's the objective description of coitus which presents the most problems but there's not reason why we couldn't just have that as a draft rather than all the anatomy and physiology associated with reproduction.

My other suggestion is that we separate our reproduction articles into achieving a zygote and then pregnancy because otherwise this article is going to be huge! (comment left by [[user:Kitsune|Kitsune]] at (14:41, 24 April 2007)

:Hey Kitsune, I was carefully trying to avoid explicit mention of genitalia or sexual acts in order to stay on the family friendly side of the line. By the way, can you sign your comments, either using four tildes like this : <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, or using the button above to the right of the red circle crossed "W". [[User:Human|Human]] 15:46, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

When omitting genitalia or sexual intercourse, interested youngsters will simply search for other sources of information. Do you really prefer the word of the street? --[[User:Schifra|schifra]] 15:29, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
:It is a very good start. I do agree however that the article should be expicit. It is not obscene to reer to these things, including the vagina and penis directly.

There is also the seperate health issue, and that is the main priority. There will be kids worrying about being normal, explicit descriptions are required, including variance. We have a responsibility here, and it must not be something we shy away from. [[user:Stevendavy|stevendavy]]

I question the chance of producing an article about human reproduction without mentioning the mechanism by which it takes place, that is, sexual intercourse. It seems to me like it's quite clear that any possible accurate mention of basic phsyiological events critical to human reproduction such as (and I say this at the risk of being labelled purile) ejaculation will not be mentioned here, so why bother with this topic at all? All this kind of overzealous censorship does is direct people away from this site, perhaps to Wikipedia, The Great Enemy. [[User:Dallas|Dallas]] 07:18, 15 November 2007 (EST)

Talk:Human reproduction/draft

2007-12-18T17:35:05Z

Belacqua: sexual congress? huh? w

The vagina (vaginæ, plural), derived from the Latin word for sheath, is the tubular tract leading from the uterus to the exterior of the body in the female of mammals, or to the cloaca in female birds, monotremes, and some reptiles. Female insects and other invertebrates also have a vagina, which is the terminal part of the oviduct.

"Vagina" is normally used in non-scientific parlence to refer to entirety of the female genitalia. This is inacurate however. It retains great cultural significance as the primary female sexual organ.

----

'''Human reproduction''' is the mechanism by which we perpetuate our species.

In order for human reproduction to occur, a woman must become pregnant through either sexual intercourse of assisted reproductive technology. Most cultures enshrine this activity within a union we call marriage, a lifelong, legally sanctioned, bond between one man and one woman.

Sexual intercourse involves the man inserting his penis into the female's vagina, and thrusting until ejaculation occurs within the female.

In reproduction through sexual intercourse, the male and female gametes, the sperm and egg, are united. These gametes carry just one half of the genetic material (chromosomes) from each parent, and when they combine the new embryo contains a full set of chromosomes. This process of gamete combination is called fertilization, and takes place inside the woman's body, in the fallopian tubes or uterus. The embryo then attaches itself to the uterine lining, and is nourished by the woman's body while it develops. This development takes roughly nine months.

At the end of this process of protected development, what was once an embryo is now born as a new baby. Human babies are relatively helpless, and depend on the care and love of their parents in order to survive to maturity themselves.

Humans only reproduce sexually, that is, individuals are not able to reproduce alone by budding, parthenogenesis, or self-cloning as some species are capable of. In addition, human gender is fixed, unlike some species, females are not able to become male or vice versa to deal with homogenous populations of one gender.

'''''Comment:''' I think I gave that a pretty good try.'' [[User:Human|Human]] 18:18, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

I think that this article should start with some basic anatomy and physiology, i.e. the anatomy of the male and female reproductive organs and the production of gametes before we move into talking about coitus. I think that it's the objective description of coitus which presents the most problems but there's not reason why we couldn't just have that as a draft rather than all the anatomy and physiology associated with reproduction.

My other suggestion is that we separate our reproduction articles into achieving a zygote and then pregnancy because otherwise this article is going to be huge! (comment left by [[user:Kitsune|Kitsune]] at (14:41, 24 April 2007)

:Hey Kitsune, I was carefully trying to avoid explicit mention of genitalia or sexual acts in order to stay on the family friendly side of the line. By the way, can you sign your comments, either using four tildes like this : <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, or using the button above to the right of the red circle crossed "W". [[User:Human|Human]] 15:46, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

When omitting genitalia or sexual intercourse, interested youngsters will simply search for other sources of information. Do you really prefer the word of the street? --[[User:Schifra|schifra]] 15:29, 17 May 2007 (EDT)
:It is a very good start. I do agree however that the article should be expicit. It is not obscene to reer to these things, including the vagina and penis directly.

There is also the seperate health issue, and that is the main priority. There will be kids worrying about being normal, explicit descriptions are required, including variance. We have a responsibility here, and it must not be something we shy away from. [[user:Stevendavy|stevendavy]]

I question the chance of producing an article about human reproduction without mentioning the mechanism by which it takes place, that is, sexual intercourse. It seems to me like it's quite clear that any possible accurate mention of basic phsyiological events critical to human reproduction such as (and I say this at the risk of being labelled purile) ejaculation will not be mentioned here, so why bother with this topic at all? All this kind of overzealous censorship does is direct people away from this site, perhaps to Wikipedia, The Great Enemy. [[User:Dallas|Dallas]] 07:18, 15 November 2007 (EST)

Talk:Bill Clinton

2007-12-17T12:26:42Z

Belacqua: /* "Clinton aggressively advocated homosexuality." */

Citation needed for segment claiming "Bill clinton used arkansas state policemen to solicit women outside marriage"

:I am going to have to rewrite this article for obvious reasons.[[User:Geo.plrd|Geo.]] 00:37, 5 March 2007 (EST)

:Too even-handed?[[User:McTavidge|McTavidge]] 22:37, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:Well, I tend to think that the fact that the article claims that Clinton was impeached isn't greatly even-handed. I'm a conservative like any other person with reasonable political ideals, but I think we're sort of stretching credibility with this one. [[User:Karalius Nyder|Karalius Nyder]] 22:31, 20 March 2007 (EDT)
:Sorry, my apologies - he was impeached! I need to brush up on my American politics. [[User:Karalius Nyder|Karalius Nyder]] 00:45, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

== Article name ==

I see my attempt at balancing this article was hastily deleted...

Yes, because your link entry was no help to the article at all. [[User:Jallen|Jallen]] [[User talk:Jallen|talk]] 11:15, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

Ok, does this make sense to have as William Jefferson Clinton when he was known as Bill Clinton? I don't think that anyone seriously would move [[Julias Caesar]] to [[Gaius Julius Caesar]] or [[Plutarch]] to [[Mestrius Plutarchus]] and I don't see how these are substantially different. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 21:12, 5 March 2007 (EST)

:White House website says: [http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html William J. Clinton]
:Columbia Encyclopedia says: [http://www.bartleby.com/65/cl/ClintonB.html Bill Clinton]
:Encarta says: [http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761564341/Clinton_Bill.html Bill Clinton]
:Britannica says: [http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9003019/Bill-Clinton Bill Clinton]
:American Heritage Dictionary says: [http://www.bartleby.com/61/2/C0410250.html Clinton, William Jefferson]
:Clinton Library is: [http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/ William J. Clinton Presidential Library and Museum]
:Gale's Biography Research Center says:
::Bill Clinton
::(American president, 1946-)
::Also known as: William Jefferson Clinton, William J. Clinton, William Clinton, William Jefferson Blythe
:and includes
::"Bill Clinton," in American Decades 1990-1999. Tandy McConnell, ed. Detroit: Gale Group, Inc., 2001.
::"Bill Clinton," in Current Leaders of Nations. Gale Research, 1998.
::"Bill Clinton," in Encyclopedia of World Biography, 2nd ed. 17 Vols. Gale Research, 1998.
::"Bill Clinton," in Newsmakers. Cumulation issue. Gale Research, 1992. (A profile of the individual's personal life, career, and newsworthy achievements.)
::"William Jefferson Clinton", in Contemporary Authors Online.
::"Bill Clinton," in Worldmark Encyclopedia of the Nations, Volume 6: World Leaders, 10th ed. Gale Group, 2001.

::I've moved the article to "Bill Clinton" and created redirects for all the other forms of the name.

:::[[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith]] 21:20, 5 March 2007 (EST)

== Impeached? ==

From everything I've learned, Bill Clinton didn't get impeached. He was on the verge of being impeached and resigned. Article needs to be fixed if thats the case.

:I think you're thinking of [[Richard Nixon]]. Clinton _was_ impeached, but went on with running the country anyway. --[[User:BDobbs|BDobbs]] 23:55, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

*Impeachment is a term not for removal, but for a vote of trial. President Clinton was impeached, and put on trial. He was not convicted. President Clinton was convicted in another matter, of a Felony. He lost his law license because of that perjury conviction. President Nixon was threatened with Impeachment, but never was there a vote, or trial. --~ [[User:TK|TK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 03:50, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

:: Bill Clinton was convicted of a felony? cite, please? He gave up his law license and paid a $25,000 fine to the Arkansas bar in exchange for no criminal charges being filed.<ref>http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/19/clinton.lewinsky/</ref>. It's not exactly scot-free or exoneration, but it's also not a felony conviction. -- [[User:Jtl|Jtl]] 03:59, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

*Yes, one step ahead, it seems. He essentially pleaded "Nolo Contendre", and for doing so, was spared the humilation of being convicted. Sorry for my inexcuseable error in mistating a conviction, when on a technicality, he really wasn't. [http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/stories/01/19/clinton.lewinsky/]

<blockquote>
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a disciplinary action never before taken against a sitting U.S. president, an Arkansas Supreme Court panel has filed suit to strip Bill Clinton of his license to practice law

"The conduct of Mr. Clinton ... was motivated by a desire to protect himself from the embarrassment of his own conduct," the Arkansas State Supreme Court Committee on Professional Conduct declared in its five-page lawsuit, filed on Friday at about 3:45 p.m. (4:45 p.m. EDT) with the Pulaski County Circuit Court clerk in Little Rock.[http://archives.cnn.com/2000/LAW/06/30/clinton.disbarment.02/]</blockquote>
--~ [[User:TK|TK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 04:11, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

As far as I can tell, he didn't plead nolo contendre either, ''because there weren't any charges filed''. Your quote isn't about a plea; it isn't even about charges being filed. It's about a lawsuit being filed. Civil cases aren't criminal. Lawsuits being filed aren't lawsuits being decided. Agreements to avoid charges aren't convictions, or guilty pleas, or even nolo contendre pleas.

In your mind, was Rush Limbaugh convicted of a felony in the oxycontin case? He paid a fine and agreed to drug testing for some number of years in exchange for charges not being filed. --[[User:Jtl|Jtl]] 04:15, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

*What a throughly mean spirited and nasty person you must be. Let it go. I admitted my mistake. What has happened to you in your life to make you this way? I don't condone anyone in the public eye getting treatment others wouldn't get. It is no matter if its Clinton or Limbaugh, and that should be obvious. That you thought I would condone Limbaugh's illegal activities, and not Clinton's speaks to your mind-set. --~ [[User:TK|TK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 04:17, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

:: And that you would assume I thought knew the answer to my honest question speaks to yours. --[[User:Jtl|Jtl]] 04:23, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

== Bin Laden ==

This article goes to great lengths to link the rise of Bin Laden to Clinton, but the old blighter doesn't get a mention in the article on Dubya. Why so? (Need I ask!) [[User:Mralph72|Mralph72]] 08:51, 5 May 2007 (EDT)

On that note, I'd like to ask why the Clinton page mentions minor, inaccurate statements but the page on our current president doesn't even mention a blemish on his presidential career. While Wikipedia articles do contain vandalism, their sysops do an excellent job at controlling it. Why can't we really be fair and unlock all the pages, and simply make our moderators do their job? --[[User:Aurum|Aurum]] 08:42, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
:Saying its 'innaccurate" doesn't make it so; the page is locked precisely to prevent the type of vandalism you are suggesting of inserting innaccurate statements.

:BTW, what did [[Sandy Burglar]] do with all those documents, and why? [[User:RobS|Rob Smith]] 11:19, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

== Impeachment quote ==

it is totally unclear where "they have made promiscuous use of it" is supposed to fit in - maybe someone knows? [[User:PFoster|PFoster]] 17:21, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

== The Senate subsequently voted to acquit Clinton. ==

Having this follow the bit about Flynt makes it look as though there is a cause-and-effect relationship between the offer and the acquittal. That may be the case, and it may be nothing more than an interesting coincidence. If it is the case, a charge of that gravity would need to be backed up with a reference, according to the C-pedia rules. [[User:PFoster|PFoster]] 00:07, 15 July 2007 (EDT).

:Really? You suppose was cause-and-effect between Flynt blackmailing Senators for private conduct & [[Jim Jeffords]] jumping parties in 2001? [[User:RobS|RobS]] 14:46, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

I have no idea, nor do I really care. My point is that the way the article is phrased IMPLIES a relationship without documenting it. You want that kind of implication to be on this website without any sort of evidence, that's fine by me. [[User:PFoster|PFoster]] 14:49, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

:Let's look at the contrast; without it, the implication is the impeachment charges were all bogus and without foundation, and Clinton was somehow victimized. Whereas the historical record shows, Clinton defenders were quit upfront about using blackmail & a "scorched earth" policy to defend Clinton, and even went so far as naming names. Clinton defenders for example publicly claimed they had evidence of homosexual activity by [[Trent Lott]] in his college days, and judging by Lotts reaction to the House Impeachment as reported by House Judiciary Committee Councel [[David Schippers]], [http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200012/ai_n8927884/pg_2] it's up to the reader to decide why the evidence in the Clinton Impeachment case was buried. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 15:13, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

So much for discussion, I guess. Look - if C-pedia wants to make the association between Flynt's seedy offer and the Senate's ruling a part of the article (an association which is about as subtle as a banjo as it's phrased here), so be it. At least edit it it so as to have the House and Senate results follow each other instead of being in separate paragraphs...and to spell "acquit" properly.

[[User:PFoster|PFoster]] 00:07, 15 July 2007 (EDT).

:::These are the facts: (1) Stephanoplous & Carville made public statements that others would be outed if Clinton was impeached; (2) Larry Flynt, an old frined of Carville and of Clinton's college roommate at George Washington University, [[Strobe Talbott]], publicly and in a high profile manner interfered with a Consitutional process by offering reward money for blackmail information, never mind if the information was true or not, and stated exactly why he did so; (3) the Senate voted to acquit. (4) Stephanoplous, Carville, Flynt, Clinton, and every Senator who voted to acquit is just going to have to live with those facts. [[User:RobS|RobS]] 21:13, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

== Cocaine allegation ==

We need a source for the cocaine allegation. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 12:22, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

== "Cruise missiles to manipulate opinion polls" ==

That section title is misleading as it points toward ''suspicions'' but not hard evidence. The body of the section need not be changed but I would like to move that they section be retitled something like: "Cruise missile controversy".

== Clinton and Gay Bomb? ==

What does some unnamed researcher's (denied) request for funding for a ridiculous project have to do with an encyclopedia article about Clinton? Will we also include any silly idea spawned during the Bush era in the GWB article? Or do you honestly think that no researcher ever requested money for another silly project since Bush became President? This and the "See also: Gay Bomb" link will only make CP look foolish, I think.

Seriously, guys, the link between Clinton and the Gay Bomb is nothing more than "Clinton happened to be in power while somebody way lower in the chain had a dumb idea that got rejected by the Defense Department. Chances are he never even saw this request." --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 19:07, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

*"See Also"'s may or may not have anything at all to do with the article subject, Jenkins. Think of them as further reading material, in the same general category. Like the Reagan article, see Conservative Links, which may or may not include links to personalities and/or organizations Reagan might well have detested. --[[User:TK|şŷŝôρ-₮K]][[User_Talk:TK|/Ṣρёаќǃ]] 19:30, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

::While I silently disagree with the driving logic, I'm willing to accept it and thus the existence of the "See also: Gay Bomb" part. However, the explicit paragraph in the article itself does look extremely out of place, with or without the "See also" section. --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 19:40, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

:::Right. Just as Reagan just happened to be in power when the AIDS epidemic hit; only in that case, I do not think funding was denied. Nonetheless, we never stop hearing the end of it (See [[Liberal hate speech]], ''Gay Reagan is Dead''). [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 20:21, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

::::Erm... let's see... the term "AIDS" appears 0 times in [[Ronald Reagan]]. Any of the words "Acquired", "Immune", "Deficiency" (or "Immunodeficiency"), or "Syndrome" appear 0 times in the article. "HIV" or "virus" appear 0 times. "Epidemic" appears 0 times. "Disease" appears only in the Alzheimer context. ("Gay" appears 0 times, too.) I also read over the article, and couldn't find any reference to it.
::::At the same time, our [[AIDS]] article makes no mention of Reagan, instead saying that it "was first recognized in the early 1980s". Compare this with [[Gay Bomb]], where you inserted the "proposed during the Clinton era" bit even though all linked sources/references simply say "in 1994".
::::I'm not sure what point you wanted to make, but it looks a lot like mine: "It's just something that happened while the guy was President, but he was not directly involved. So what is this doing in his article?" In fact, this proposal most likely never made it all the way up to Clinton since it was rejected early on. So if anything, the Gay Bomb is even less connected to Clinton than AIDS is connected to Reagan. --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 11:26, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

::::::Yes, that's all very interesting. One wonders why, if AIDS is not exclusively a homosexual disease, why to this day are gay activists and gay activists organizations the only ones who criticize Reagan for not mentioning the term "AIDS"? And again, Reagan funded AIDS research, whereas Clinton promoted homosexual causes, and in doing so could have prevented the 9/11 attacks by dropping a [[Gay Bomb|gay bomb]] on Afghan terrorists camps. But he appears to have failed. [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 12:49, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

:::::::You're dragging this discussion further and further away from the actual point, Rob. Please point out to me where Bill Clinton had any direct influence on the Gay Bomb (...and please tell me that your "Gay Bomb could have prevented 9/11" thing is just a sick joke of yours).
:::::::Here is what the FOX News source says (emphasis mine):
{{cquote|Air Force spokeswoman Lt. Col. Cathy Reardon said the idea was proposed '''by an Air Force researcher''' at a lab at Brooks Air Force Base in Texas, but it was '''rejected by the Defense Department'''. Officials noted that the Air Force constantly is considering funding proposals.}}
:::::::Funny, no mention of the President being involved in any way!
:::::::The Gay Bomb has absolutely no connection to Bill Clinton (aside from your '''opinion''' about what he could have or should have done about it). It is completely off-topic in an article about Bill Clinton, and by now I almost assume it serves as some sort of smear-by-association by trying to link Clinton to an absolutely ridiculous proposal made by some researcher. Please prove me wrong and remove it. --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 13:05, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
::::::::Similiar to [[Venona]] project; [[Truman]] had no knowledge of it, yet it is integral to his Administration, the history of his times, and everything that resulted from his decision making thereafter, with or without his knowledge of Venona. [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 13:26, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
:::::::::In other words: Any decision made at any level in any department in the administration automatically is directly connected to the President in person and thus should be mentioned in his concise encyclopedia article?
:::::::::I must also note your inability to stay focused on the here and now. I start discussing one issue connected to one person, and you immediately swerve to Reagan and Truman, citing things that had significantly more impact than one of undoubtedly countless silly proposals made while Clinton happened to be in charge.
:::::::::Are you seriously basing your Clinton/Bomb connection on your unsourced and unprovable opinion that it could have prevented 9/11 and that thus, the refusal by the Defense Department becomes his failure as President?
:::::::::And am I right in assuming that you'll continue to refuse addressing the points at hand and instead drag me across US History until I give up and leave you alone? If you answer only one question, please answer that last one. Then I could write this off as a lost cause and move on. --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 13:39, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

<--

*''In other words: Any decision made at any level in any department in the administration automatically is directly connected to the President in person''
:*Comment: Just like the Watergate breakin, (a) it wasn't even done by a government agency, and (b) Nixon had no prior knowledge. However I don't think we will ever undo the damage done to Nixon's reputation, then or now, by alleged scholarly, reputable, and journalistic sources who seem to ignore this fact. [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 13:43, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
:::[selfquote] ''And am I right in assuming that you'll continue to refuse addressing the points at hand and instead drag me across US History until I give up and leave you alone?'' [/selfquote]
:::I'll take that as a "Yes", then... --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 13:48, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
::::*Am I right in assuming Bill Clinton was an imcometent idiot without a clue as to what was going on in his administration? particulalry as it pertains to national security? I though he was the smartest person to ever walk the planet? I thought having him as First Lady is our only hope of survival of the human species? Why, what you are saying tends to make me think we're being decieved..... [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 14:33, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

::::::Well, at least you're focusing on the right person. That's a good start! Now, if you could focus a bit on why you included the Gay Bomb in the Clinton article, we'd make actual progress!
::::::Replying to your post in order:
::::::*I don't know if he is/was an idiot or not. That's not the issue here, though.
::::::*National Security ''might'' be a remote issue if there was proof that he had any influence here, but the articles only say that "the Defense Department" rejected it and that the interviewed officials called it a dumb idea, so it's reasonable to assume that it also would've been rejected without Clinton being President, I'd say. So unless you show that Clinton hired the guy who ended up rejecting it (which would be an indirect link and still not enough to merit being mentioned in the Clinton article in my eyes), it's not the issue here. It might become an issue if you managed to prove that the Gay Bomb (1) would have worked as advertised, (2) would have been ready by 2001, (3) would have been deployed to take out terror camps (Why didn't they just use a normal bomb, anyway?), and (4) would have successfully prevented 9/11. And if you ''somehow'' managed to do all that, here is my question: "Why didn't Bush pick up this project, which so obviously could prevent another 9/11 and magically solve tons of terror problems?" (Oh, wait, don't answer. I assume he did, and it's just Top Secret, and you'll have the last laugh once Bush gayifies dozens of terror camps, right?)
::::::*I don't know if Clinton is the smartest man on the planet - but if I had to guess, I'd say that he's not. Again: Not the issue.
::::::*This issue is also not about Hillary Clinton. At all.
::::::I might have felt some sort of sting if I was a Clinton fanboy. Apparently you think that anybody who disagrees with you about your Clinton edit must be a blind fanatic. How cute. Sorry, but I don't really care much about Clinton (and that goes for Bill and Hillary). I just care about your increasingly silly attempt to justify a completely off-topic edit that apparently aimed at simple smear-by-association (or, if you go through with your theory, smear-by-blaming-Clinton-for-9/11).
::::::Here, let me try this ''yet'' again: '''Where is the link that justifies the Gay Bomb being included in the Bill Clinton article? None of the sources mention him, and the request was simply turned down by somebody in the Defense Department.''' --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 15:10, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
:::::::As I understand, [[Hillary Clinton]] was the [[Dick Cheney]] of the Clinton [[White House]]. While [[Bill Clinton]] & [[George W. Bush]] were just the idiot front men used to pose for pictures with Girl Scouts in the Rose Garden, Hillary, like Dick Cheney (and even GWH Bush in the [[Reagan]] White House) was the ''real'' power and brains behind the throne making policy and running the show.

:::::::So indeed Hillary Clinton has some questions to answer..... 15:29, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

::::::::...I give up. This "discussion" made me lose 20 IQ points, I think. Have fun, Rob.
::::::::To the brave souls who managed to read all the way to here: I tried. I really did. --[[User:Jenkins|Jenkins]] 15:42, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

Jenkins, why did you bother? This is conservapedia we're talking about here. If the Half-Hour News Hour would've stuck to mining this page for material, perhaps it would still be on the air! [[User:Jsmog|Jsmog]] 13:10, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

You are still my hero, Jenkins.

== Capnolagnia ==

There really should be a mention of his [[capnolagnia]]!! [[User:Booth|Booth]] 13:05, 7 December 2007 (EST)

== State police ==

"He used Arkansas state policemen to arrange for him to meet women outside of marriage."

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to state that this allegedly happened? Nothing was ever proven. The allegations were just hearsay. I am not a Clinton fan, but leaving a statement like this in would be comparable to a statement found on Wikipedia.

=="Clinton aggressively advocated homosexuality."==
This does not belong at the top of the page. Maybe in the context of a sentence, but definitely not as a part of the introduction to the article. It has no lead in or lead out and has no overall introductory relevance to this article, as evidenced by the fact that it stands alone on a line. [[User:Lolsardcloth|Lolsardcloth]] 21:08, 14 December 2007 (EST)

:The rest of the John W. Chalfant quote was as follows: ''Once God was shown the door, America went into chaos. Scholastic Aptitude Test scores plummeted. Violent crime rocketed upward. The abortion mills did an unprecedented business as they devised ever-more-sadistic ways to kill children before and even during birth. Bill Clinton, elected president of the United States in 1992, aggressively advocated homosexuality, which God calls "abomination." The Abandonment Clergy and their millions of undiscerning followers stood mute while America's sudden loss of greatness became obvious even to the world.''

:For now, I'll leave it up to other editors (who acually have the abilities to make changes) to decide how authoritative such a source is, and how well the unattributed quote merits inclusion in the article. [[User:Feebasfactor|Feebasfactor]] 21:21, 14 December 2007 (EST)

Oh this is just too funny.
Oh no! Watch out! If there's something you should know about Bill Clinton, former president of the most powerful nation on the planet, is that... he wasn't homophobic!!!!!!!!!!!! Gasp! He didn't hate gays!!!!

Talk:Bill Clinton

2007-12-17T12:26:06Z

Belacqua: /* "Clinton aggressively advocated homosexuality." */

Karl Marx

2007-12-17T12:21:00Z

Belacqua:

[[Image:KarlMarx.jpg|right|frame|Karl Marx]]
'''Karl Marx''' (1818-1883) was born in Prussia, educated in [[Germany]], and a writer in [[London]]. Marx was an economist who sought to set [[socialism]] and [[communism]] on, what he saw as, a scientific basis.

Marx saw "primitive" socialist thought as fundamentally a moral movement with no base in a practical science. Marx's solution was to ground an analysis of society on his principle of dialectical materialism.

[[Dialectic]] was a principle created by German philosopher [[Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel]] which, although ferociously complex in his works, is based on the fairly straightforward conception of action and reaction. A situation arises that is less than perfect ("thesis") which provokes a reaction ("[[antithesis]]"), eventually a settlement is reached ("synthesis") which, is still far from perfect and provokes its own antithesis. Hegel saw the driving force of changes being the "Geist", variously translated as "spirit" or "mind".

Marx took the dialectic and replaced Geist with [[materialism]], at root the [[metabolism]] of man. To put it bluntly: you've got to eat!. The difference between the ideal spirit and reality translates into Marx's view that man had become [[alienation|alienated]] from his true nature. Man had been created different from animals: he is creative, this is essential to his nature. However, in modern days, man is just automatically producing: he works to earn his wage, but has no tie to the product of his labor at all. This is the alienation from his true nature. Marx proposed a solution: outlaw wages.

The necessity for material sustenance gives rise to an imperfect distribution of [[means of production]], which changes as the internal contradictions of [[thesis and antithesis]] work themselves out. A key feature of Marx's theory was his contention that [[competition]] for resources splits society into mutually antagonistic classes ("The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of [[class struggle]]s.") whilst the operation of the dialectic serves to continually reduce the numbers of classes until, in the [[Industrial Age]], society was almost wholly split between "[[bourgeoisie]]" and "[[proletariat]]".

[[Capitalism]], according to Marx, is one system in a long series of [[economic systems]] in the world. Is it also the system that happily brings an end to Feudalism, and brings history one step away from a Communist world; for Capitalism creates precisely the conditions to bring about this self-same socialist society. He held that a so-called "[[capitalist society]]" had strong internal inherent tensions. In the development of capitalism, [[capital]], which Marx confuses with money or [[currency]], would be increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few people. <ref>See his "Law of the Centralization of Capital".</ref> The difference in income between the poorest and richest would always increase. Through economic crises, the poor laborers could be inflamed to believe that the system would always be disadvantageous to them.

''Das Kapital'' (''Capital'') seeks to explain that the "bourgeoisie" make [[profit]]s by [[exploitation]] of the "proletariat." The exploitation arises where the value of the goods produced by workers is much more than the wages paid, and this "[[surplus value]]" is allegedly stolen from workers by the people who make it possible for them to earn a living. Marx sought to agitate class envy by alleging that the competition amongst the bourgeoisie forced them to exploit their workers as much as possible. If an individual bourgeois refused to continue the "exploitation" he would soon be forced into [[bankruptcy]] or be taken over by someone who would. The result is persistent low wages among the proletariat who, eventually, would rebel and replace the existing capitalist system with a [[socialist]]/communist system.

However, in his other works, Marx could not foretell if this fantasy would make an end to the capitalist system: he knew there are too many factors in history to make a prediction possible. He did not have a clear idea about what the next supposed stage after capitalism would be. The increasing concentration, he thought, would facilitate a [[communist]] system. In that system, however, man also would have to eliminate his "alienation." One possibility, which Marx imagined, was complete mechanization of production, so that any man could do any job<ref>Marx, K. Foundations of the Critique of Political Economy, [[Berlin]]</ref>.
In the ''Communist Manifesto'', Marx went into greater detail about how this [[revolution]] would unfold. As well as proposing an economic system, Marx also advocated [[education]] for all including women and the lower classes who at the time were without any education.

==Critique of Marxists==
[[Mikhail Bakunin]] observed how rather than discussion of issues, the tried and tested method of [[leftism]] and [[Marxism]] was spread through the art of [[character assassination]], <ref>Guy A. Aldred, ''Bakunin'', Strickland Press, [[Glasgow]], (1940). </ref> close associates of Marx were adept in the art of
{{Cquote|cowardly, odious and perfidious insinuations. They seldom make open accusation, but they insinuate, saying they "have heard - it is said - it may not be true, but', and then they hurl the most abominable calumnies in your face.}}

===Views on Religion===
Marx' view on [[religion]] is mostly based on [[Ludwig Feuerbach's]] ideas<ref>Feuerbach, L. ''The Essence of Christianity'', New York, 1957</ref>. Marx is considered very controversial in religious circles for his statement, "Religion...is the opium of the masses." This was written in his 1843 work "A Contribution to the [http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right]" and expresses Marx's belief that religion offers a false palliative to assuage the suffering of "the oppressed", which in his view essentially blames [[faith]] in [[God]] as the manifestation of the circumstances of our world that necessitates a redistribution of the ownership of the instruments and means of labor and production.

Karl Marx is often labeled an [[anti-Semite]] or a "self-hating [[Jew]]" for statements such as, "Money is the [[jealous god]] of [[Israel]], in face of which no other god may exist", "The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the [[god of the world]]. The [[bill of exchange]] is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange", and "What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly [[God]]? Money."

== See also ==

*[[Baldomero Ortoneda]]

==References==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Marx, Karl}}
[[Category:Political people]]
[[Category:Communists]]
[[Category:Sociologists]]

Karl Marx

2007-12-17T12:20:26Z

Belacqua: wrong again wow wrong left and right everywhere wrong wrong. I don't have time to correct all of the mistakes here. I'll just correct the less time consuming ones. The whole misreading of Hegel is WOW

[[Image:KarlMarx.jpg|right|frame|Karl Marx]]
'''Karl Marx''' (1818-1883) was born in Prussia, educated in [[Germany]], and a writer in [[London]]. Marx was an economist who sought to set [[socialism]] and [[communism]] on, what he saw as, a scientific basis.

Marx saw "primitive" socialist thought as fundamentally a moral movement with no base in a practical science. Marx's solution was to ground an analysis of society on his principle of dialectical materialism.

[[Dialectic]] was a principle created by German philosopher [[Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel]] which, although ferociously complex in his works, is based on the fairly straightforward conception of action and reaction. A situation arises that is less than perfect ("thesis") which provokes a reaction ("[[antithesis]]"), eventually a settlement is reached ("synthesis") which, is still far from perfect and provokes its own antithesis. Hegel saw the driving force of changes being the "Geist", variously translated as "spirit" or "mind".

Marx took the dialectic and replaced Geist with [[materialism]], at root the [[metabolism]] of man. To put it bluntly: you've got to eat!. The difference between the ideal spirit and reality translates into Marx's view that man had become [[alienation|alienated]] from his true nature. Man had been created different from animals: he is creative, this is essential to his nature. However, in modern days, man is just automatically producing: he works to earn his wage, but has no tie to the product of his labor at all. This is the alienation from his true nature. Marx proposed a solution: outlaw wages.

The necessity for material sustenance gives rise to an imperfect distribution of [[means of production]], which changes as the internal contradictions of [[thesis and antithesis]] work themselves out. A key feature of Marx's theory was his contention that [[competition]] for resources splits society into mutually antagonistic classes ("The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of [[class struggle]]s.") whilst the operation of the dialectic serves to continually reduce the numbers of classes until, in the [[Industrial Age]], society was almost wholly split between "[[bourgeoisie]]" and "[[proletariat]]".

[[Capitalism]], according to Marx, is one system in a long series of [[economic systems]] in the world. Is it also the system that ends happily Feudalism, and brings history one step away from a Communist world; for Capitalism creates precisely the conditions to bring about this self-same socialist society. He held that a so-called "[[capitalist society]]" had strong internal inherent tensions. In the development of capitalism, [[capital]], which Marx confuses with money or [[currency]], would be increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few people. <ref>See his "Law of the Centralization of Capital".</ref> The difference in income between the poorest and richest would always increase. Through economic crises, the poor laborers could be inflamed to believe that the system would always be disadvantageous to them.

''Das Kapital'' (''Capital'') seeks to explain that the "bourgeoisie" make [[profit]]s by [[exploitation]] of the "proletariat." The exploitation arises where the value of the goods produced by workers is much more than the wages paid, and this "[[surplus value]]" is allegedly stolen from workers by the people who make it possible for them to earn a living. Marx sought to agitate class envy by alleging that the competition amongst the bourgeoisie forced them to exploit their workers as much as possible. If an individual bourgeois refused to continue the "exploitation" he would soon be forced into [[bankruptcy]] or be taken over by someone who would. The result is persistent low wages among the proletariat who, eventually, would rebel and replace the existing capitalist system with a [[socialist]]/communist system.

However, in his other works, Marx could not foretell if this fantasy would make an end to the capitalist system: he knew there are too many factors in history to make a prediction possible. He did not have a clear idea about what the next supposed stage after capitalism would be. The increasing concentration, he thought, would facilitate a [[communist]] system. In that system, however, man also would have to eliminate his "alienation." One possibility, which Marx imagined, was complete mechanization of production, so that any man could do any job<ref>Marx, K. Foundations of the Critique of Political Economy, [[Berlin]]</ref>.
In the ''Communist Manifesto'', Marx went into greater detail about how this [[revolution]] would unfold. As well as proposing an economic system, Marx also advocated [[education]] for all including women and the lower classes who at the time were without any education.

==Critique of Marxists==
[[Mikhail Bakunin]] observed how rather than discussion of issues, the tried and tested method of [[leftism]] and [[Marxism]] was spread through the art of [[character assassination]], <ref>Guy A. Aldred, ''Bakunin'', Strickland Press, [[Glasgow]], (1940). </ref> close associates of Marx were adept in the art of
{{Cquote|cowardly, odious and perfidious insinuations. They seldom make open accusation, but they insinuate, saying they "have heard - it is said - it may not be true, but', and then they hurl the most abominable calumnies in your face.}}

===Views on Religion===
Marx' view on [[religion]] is mostly based on [[Ludwig Feuerbach's]] ideas<ref>Feuerbach, L. ''The Essence of Christianity'', New York, 1957</ref>. Marx is considered very controversial in religious circles for his statement, "Religion...is the opium of the masses." This was written in his 1843 work "A Contribution to the [http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right]" and expresses Marx's belief that religion offers a false palliative to assuage the suffering of "the oppressed", which in his view essentially blames [[faith]] in [[God]] as the manifestation of the circumstances of our world that necessitates a redistribution of the ownership of the instruments and means of labor and production.

Karl Marx is often labeled an [[anti-Semite]] or a "self-hating [[Jew]]" for statements such as, "Money is the [[jealous god]] of [[Israel]], in face of which no other god may exist", "The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the [[god of the world]]. The [[bill of exchange]] is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange", and "What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly [[God]]? Money."

== See also ==

*[[Baldomero Ortoneda]]

==References==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Marx, Karl}}
[[Category:Political people]]
[[Category:Communists]]
[[Category:Sociologists]]

Karl Marx

2007-12-17T12:15:37Z

Belacqua: /* Views on Religion */

[[Image:KarlMarx.jpg|right|frame|Karl Marx]]
'''Karl Marx''' (1818-1883) was born in Prussia, educated in [[Germany]], and a writer in [[London]]. Marx was an economist who sought to set [[socialism]] and [[communism]] on, what he saw as, a scientific basis.

Marx saw "primitive" socialist thought as fundamentally a moral movement with no base in a practical science. Marx's solution was to ground an analysis of society on his principle of dialectical materialism.

[[Dialectic]] was a principle created by German philosopher [[Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel]] which, although ferociously complex in his works, is based on the fairly straightforward conception of action and reaction. A situation arises that is less than perfect ("thesis") which provokes a reaction ("[[antithesis]]"), eventually a settlement is reached ("synthesis") which, is still far from perfect and provokes its own antithesis. Hegel saw the driving force of changes being the "Geist", variously translated as "spirit" or "mind".

Marx took the dialectic and replaced Geist with [[materialism]], at root the [[metabolism]] of man. To put it bluntly: you've got to eat!. The difference between the ideal spirit and reality translates into Marx's view that man had become [[alienation|alienated]] from his true nature. Man had been created different from animals: he is creative, this is essential to his nature. However, in modern days, man is just automatically producing: he works to earn his wage, but has no tie to the product of his labor at all. This is the alienation from his true nature. Marx proposed a solution: outlaw wages.

The necessity for material sustenance gives rise to an imperfect [[means of production]], which changes as the internal contradictions of [[thesis and antithesis]] work themselves out. A key feature of Marx's theory was his contention that [[competition]] for resources splits society into mutually antagonistic classes ("The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of [[class struggle]]s.") whilst the operation of the dialectic serves to continually reduce the numbers of classes until, in the [[Industrial Age]], society was almost wholly split between "[[bourgeoisie]]" and "[[proletariat]]".

[[Capitalism]], according to Marx, is just one system in a long series of [[economic systems]] in the world. He held that a so-called "[[capitalist society]]" had strong internal inherent tensions. In the development of capitalism, [[capital]], which Marx confuses with money or [[currency]], would be increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few people. <ref>See his "Law of the Centralization of Capital".</ref> The difference in income between the poorest and richest would always increase. Through economic crises, the poor laborers could be inflamed to believe that the system would always be disadvantageous to them.

''Das Kapital'' (''Capital'') seeks to explain that the "bourgeoisie" make [[profit]]s by [[exploitation]] of the "proletariat." The exploitation arises where the value of the goods produced by workers is much more than the wages paid, and this "[[surplus value]]" is allegedly stolen from workers by the people who make it possible for them to earn a living. Marx sought to agitate class envy by alleging that the competition amongst the bourgeoisie forced them to exploit their workers as much as possible. If an individual bourgeois refused to continue the "exploitation" he would soon be forced into [[bankruptcy]] or be taken over by someone who would. The result is persistent low wages among the proletariat who, eventually, would rebel and replace the existing capitalist system with a [[socialist]]/communist system.

However, in his other works, Marx could not foretell if this fantasy would make an end to the capitalist system: he knew there are too many factors in history to make a prediction possible. He did not have a clear idea about what the next supposed stage after capitalism would be. The increasing concentration, he thought, would facilitate a [[communist]] system. In that system, however, man also would have to eliminate his "alienation." One possibility, which Marx imagined, was complete mechanization of production, so that any man could do any job<ref>Marx, K. Foundations of the Critique of Political Economy, [[Berlin]]</ref>.
In the ''Communist Manifesto'', Marx went into greater detail about how this [[revolution]] would unfold. As well as proposing an economic system, Marx also advocated [[education]] for all including women and the lower classes who at the time were without any education.

==Critique of Marxists==
[[Mikhail Bakunin]] observed how rather than discussion of issues, the tried and tested method of [[leftism]] and [[Marxism]] was spread through the art of [[character assassination]], <ref>Guy A. Aldred, ''Bakunin'', Strickland Press, [[Glasgow]], (1940). </ref> close associates of Marx were adept in the art of
{{Cquote|cowardly, odious and perfidious insinuations. They seldom make open accusation, but they insinuate, saying they "have heard - it is said - it may not be true, but', and then they hurl the most abominable calumnies in your face.}}

===Views on Religion===
Marx' view on [[religion]] is mostly based on [[Ludwig Feuerbach's]] ideas<ref>Feuerbach, L. ''The Essence of Christianity'', New York, 1957</ref>. Marx is considered very controversial in religious circles for his statement, "Religion...is the opium of the masses." This was written in his 1843 work "A Contribution to the [http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1843/critique-hpr/intro.htm Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right]" and expresses Marx's belief that religion offers a false palliative to assuage the suffering of "the oppressed", which in his view essentially blames [[faith]] in [[God]] as the manifestation of the circumstances of our world that necessitates a redistribution of the ownership of the instruments and means of labor and production.

Karl Marx is often labeled an [[anti-Semite]] or a "self-hating [[Jew]]" for statements such as, "Money is the [[jealous god]] of [[Israel]], in face of which no other god may exist", "The god of the Jews has become secularized and has become the [[god of the world]]. The [[bill of exchange]] is the real god of the Jew. His god is only an illusory bill of exchange", and "What is the worldly religion of the Jew? Huckstering. What is his worldly [[God]]? Money."

== See also ==

*[[Baldomero Ortoneda]]

==References==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Marx, Karl}}
[[Category:Political people]]
[[Category:Communists]]
[[Category:Sociologists]]

William Blake

2007-12-17T12:06:33Z

Belacqua:

'''William Blake''' (1757-1827) was a British poet, painter, visionary mystic, and engraver, who illustrated and printed his own books. The best-known are the lyrical ''Songs of Innocence'' (1789) and ''Songs of Experience'' (1794) and his comments on established [[religion]], ''The Marriage of Heaven and Hell'' and ''The Everlasting Gospel''. His best-known work are the opening lines to his poem ''Milton," which were set to music by Parry, ironically titled "Jerusalem," and is one of the most popular English hymns.

He also wrote and illustrated several long epic poems of his own invented mythology. These are some of the most strikingly original works in English literature and art. His work was so different from that of most poets of his time that it was mainly ignored during his lifetime.

Blake belonged to no particular poetic movement, but is now often felt to be one of the earliest and greatest figures of the Romantic movement which flourished in the first half of the nineteenth century. He proclaimed the supremacy of the imagination over the rationalism and materialism of the 18th-century. He joined for a time the Swedenborgian Church of the New Jerusalem in London and considered Newtonian science to be a limitation on the human imagination. Misunderstanding shadowed his career as a writer and artist and it was left to later generations to recognize his importance.

Blake was sometimes called mad because of his unusual views on religion and morality, and because he claimed that his work was inspired by visions. He lived in near-poverty most of his life, and when he died he was buried in a common grave.

==Links==
*[http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/romanticism/Henry-Fuseli-William-Blake.html William Blake Biography & Art Archive]
*[http://www.blakearchive.org The William Blake Archive]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Blake, William}}
[[Category:Poets]]
[[Category:Artists]]

William Blake

2007-12-17T12:05:35Z

Belacqua:

'''William Blake''' (1757-1827) was a British poet, painter, visionary mystic, and engraver, who illustrated and printed his own books. The best-known are the lyrical ''Songs of Innocence'' (1789) and ''Songs of Experience'' (1794) and his comments on established [[religion]], ''The Marriage of Heaven and Hell'' and ''The Everlasting Gospel''. His best-known work are the opening lines to his poem ''Milton," which were set to music by Parry, ironically titled "Jerusalem," and is one of the most popular English hymns.

He also wrote and illustrated several long epic poems of his own invented mythology. These are some of the most strikingly original works in English literature and art. His work was so different from that of most poets of his time that it was mainly ignored during his lifetime.

Blake belonged to no particular poetic movement, but is now often felt to be one of the earliest and greatest figures of the Romantic movement which flourished in the first half of the nineteenth century. He proclaimed the supremacy of the imagination over the rationalism and materialism of the 18th-century. He joined for a time the Swedenborgian Church of the New Jerusalem in London and considered Newtonian science to be a limitation on the human imagination. Misunderstanding shadowed his career as a writer and artist and it was left to later generations to recognize his importance.

Blake was sometimes called mad because of his unusual views on religion and morality, and because he claimed that his work was inspired by visions. He lived in near-poverty most of his life, and when he died he was buried in a common grave.

==Links==
*[http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/romanticism/Henry-Fuseli-William-Blake.html William Blake Biography & Art Archive]
*[http://www.blakearchive.org]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Blake, William}}
[[Category:Poets]]
[[Category:Artists]]

William Blake

2007-12-17T12:03:57Z

Belacqua: completely incorrect

'''William Blake''' (1757-1827) was a British poet, painter, visionary mystic, and engraver, who illustrated and printed his own books. The best-known are the lyrical ''Songs of Innocence'' (1789) and ''Songs of Experience'' (1794) and his comments on established [[religion]], ''The Marriage of Heaven and Hell'' and ''The Everlasting Gospel''. His best-known work are the opening lines to his poem ''Milton," which were set to music by Parry, ironically titled "Jerusalem," and is one of the most popular English hymns.

He also wrote and illustrated several long epic poems of his own invented mythology. These are some of the most strikingly original works in English literature and art. His work was so different from that of most poets of his time that it was mainly ignored during his lifetime.

Blake belonged to no particular poetic movement, but is now often felt to be one of the earliest and greatest figures of the Romantic movement which flourished in the first half of the nineteenth century. He proclaimed the supremacy of the imagination over the rationalism and materialism of the 18th-century. He joined for a time the Swedenborgian Church of the New Jerusalem in London and considered Newtonian science to be a limitation on the human imagination. Misunderstanding shadowed his career as a writer and artist and it was left to later generations to recognize his importance.

Blake was sometimes called mad because of his unusual views on religion and morality, and because he claimed that his work was inspired by visions. He lived in near-poverty most of his life, and when he died he was buried in a common grave.

==Links==
*[http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/romanticism/Henry-Fuseli-William-Blake.html William Blake Biography & Art Archive]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Blake, William}}
[[Category:Poets]]
[[Category:Artists]]

William Blake

2007-12-17T12:02:24Z

Belacqua: incorrect

'''William Blake''' (1757-1827) was a British poet, painter, visionary mystic, and engraver, who illustrated and printed his own books. The best-known are the lyrical ''Songs of Innocence'' (1789) and ''Songs of Experience'' (1794) and his comments on established [[religion]], ''The Marriage of Heaven and Hell'' and ''The Everlasting Gospel''. His best-known work is probably the opening line short lyric ''Jerusalem'', from the preface to his poem ''Milton''. This was set to music by Parry, and is one of the most popular English hymns.

He also wrote and illustrated several long epic poems of his own invented mythology. These are some of the most strikingly original works in English literature and art. His work was so different from that of most poets of his time that it was mainly ignored during his lifetime.

Blake belonged to no particular poetic movement, but is now often felt to be one of the earliest and greatest figures of the Romantic movement which flourished in the first half of the nineteenth century. He proclaimed the supremacy of the imagination over the rationalism and materialism of the 18th-century. He joined for a time the Swedenborgian Church of the New Jerusalem in London and considered Newtonian science to be a limitation on the human imagination. Misunderstanding shadowed his career as a writer and artist and it was left to later generations to recognize his importance.

Blake was sometimes called mad because of his unusual views on religion and morality, and because he claimed that his work was inspired by visions. He lived in near-poverty most of his life, and when he died he was buried in a common grave.

==Links==
*[http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/romanticism/Henry-Fuseli-William-Blake.html William Blake Biography & Art Archive]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Blake, William}}
[[Category:Poets]]
[[Category:Artists]]

Percy Bysshe Shelley

2007-12-17T12:01:38Z

Belacqua:

'''Percy Bysshe Shelley''' was born August 4, 1792 in [[Sussex]], [[England]]. He drowned in a storm while traveling from Livorno to Lerici in his schooner on July 8, 1822. Shelley was one of six great early nineteenth century British poets later dubbed the High Romantics (the others being [[William Blake|Blake]], [[William Wordsworth|Wordsworth]], [[Samuel Taylor Coleridge|Coleridge]], [[George Gordon, Lord Byron|Byron]] and [[John Keats|Keats]].)

Shelley was anti-religious and a skeptic his whole life and promoted a poetic program where--like [[William Blake|Blake]]--the individual imagination is the sole authority on matters of truth. His play ''Prometheus Unbound'' explores his interest in a renewed imagination/creative life in the story of Prometheus. In critic Harold Bloom's reading, the plays characters Prometheus, Asia, Jupiter and Demogorgon bear resemblances to the psychic constructs of other writers including Blake, [[William Butler Yeats|Yeats]] and [[Sigmund Freud|Freud]]. <ref>(Harold Bloom, The Visionary Company: A Reading of English Romantic Poetry, Cornell University, New York 1971, p. 90-91)</ref>

Shelley's major poems include: ''Alastor'', ''Hymn to Intellectual Beauty'', ''Mont Blanc'', ''Ode to the West Wind'', ''Prometheus Unbound'', ''The Witch of Atlas'', ''Epipsychidion'', ''Adonais'', and the ''Triumph of Life''.

He also wrote an "Essay on Christianity" which attempts to read Jesus as an ethic philosopher whose great teachings have been corrupted by the institutional religion called Christianity.
== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Poets|Shelley, Percy Bysshe]]

Percy Bysshe Shelley

2007-12-17T12:01:18Z

Belacqua:

'''Percy Bysshe Shelley''' was born August 4, 1792 in [[Sussex]], [[England]]. He drowned in a storm while traveling from Livorno to Lerici in his schooner on July 8, 1822. Shelley was one of six great early nineteenth century British poets later dubbed the High Romantics (the others being [[William Blake|Blake]], [[William Wordsworth|Wordsworth]], [[Samuel Taylor Coleridge|Coleridge]], [[George Gordon, Lord Byron|Byron]] and [[John Keats|Keats]].)

Shelley was anti-religious and a skeptic his whole life and promoted a poetic program where--like [[William|Blake]]--the individual imagination is the sole authority on matters of truth. His play ''Prometheus Unbound'' explores his interest in a renewed imagination/creative life in the story of Prometheus. In critic Harold Bloom's reading, the plays characters Prometheus, Asia, Jupiter and Demogorgon bear resemblances to the psychic constructs of other writers including Blake, [[William Butler Yeats|Yeats]] and [[Sigmund Freud|Freud]]. <ref>(Harold Bloom, The Visionary Company: A Reading of English Romantic Poetry, Cornell University, New York 1971, p. 90-91)</ref>

Shelley's major poems include: ''Alastor'', ''Hymn to Intellectual Beauty'', ''Mont Blanc'', ''Ode to the West Wind'', ''Prometheus Unbound'', ''The Witch of Atlas'', ''Epipsychidion'', ''Adonais'', and the ''Triumph of Life''.

He also wrote an "Essay on Christianity" which attempts to read Jesus as an ethic philosopher whose great teachings have been corrupted by the institutional religion called Christianity.
== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Poets|Shelley, Percy Bysshe]]

Percy Bysshe Shelley

2007-12-17T12:00:25Z

Belacqua: Shelley was not an atheist, if anything he was closer to today's "agnostic." And I have no idea what a "religion of the imagination means".

'''Percy Bysshe Shelley''' was born August 4, 1792 in [[Sussex]], [[England]]. He drowned in a storm while traveling from Livorno to Lerici in his schooner on July 8, 1822. Shelley was one of six great early nineteenth century British poets later dubbed the High Romantics (the others being [[William Blake|Blake]], [[William Wordsworth|Wordsworth]], [[Samuel Taylor Coleridge|Coleridge]], [[George Gordon, Lord Byron|Byron]] and [[John Keats|Keats]].)

Shelley was anti-religious and a skeptic his whole life and promoted a poetic program where--like [[William[Blake]]--the individual imagination is the sole authority on matters of truth. His play ''Prometheus Unbound'' explores his interest in a renewed imagination/creative life in the story of Prometheus. In critic Harold Bloom's reading, the plays characters Prometheus, Asia, Jupiter and Demogorgon bear resemblances to the psychic constructs of other writers including Blake, [[William Butler Yeats|Yeats]] and [[Sigmund Freud|Freud]]. <ref>(Harold Bloom, The Visionary Company: A Reading of English Romantic Poetry, Cornell University, New York 1971, p. 90-91)</ref>

Shelley's major poems include: ''Alastor'', ''Hymn to Intellectual Beauty'', ''Mont Blanc'', ''Ode to the West Wind'', ''Prometheus Unbound'', ''The Witch of Atlas'', ''Epipsychidion'', ''Adonais'', and the ''Triumph of Life''.

He also wrote an "Essay on Christianity" which attempts to read Jesus as an ethic philosopher whose great teachings have been corrupted by the institutional religion called Christianity.
== References ==
<references />

[[Category:Poets|Shelley, Percy Bysshe]]

George Gordon, Lord Byron

2007-12-17T11:50:09Z

Belacqua:

[[Image:Lord Byron.png|left|140px]]
'''George Gordon, Lord Byron''' lived from January 22, 1788 ([[London]], England, UK) to April 19, 1824 (Missolonghi, [[Greece]]). He was an [[English]] Romantic poet and satirist.

One of his most important works was [http://website.lineone.net/~ssiggeman/poem1.html Don Juan], a book-length narrative poem. (In Byron's poem, "Juan" is pronounced in its Anglicized form; the opening stanza rhymes "Juan" with "new one" and "true one.").

'''Canto 1'''

''I want a hero, an uncommon want,

''When every year and month sends forth a new one,

''Till after cloying the gazettes with cant,

''The age discovers he is not the true one.

''Of such as these I should not care to vaunt;

''I'll therefore take our ancient friend Don Juan.

''We all have seen him in the pantomime,

''Sent to the devil somewhat ere his time.''

One of his most familiar poems, ''She Walks in Beauty,'' opens:

  She walks in beauty, like the night 
      Of cloudless climes and starry skies; 
  And all that's best of dark and bright 
      Meet in her aspect and her eyes. 

In his personal life Byron was notorious for his numerous romantic affairs, both with women and men; his lover, Lady Caroline Lamb, described him as "mad, bad, and dangerous to know."

''Byron went into self-imposed exile in Italy (''he assisted the Italian freedom fighters working for democracy'')... Depressed by both his daughter's death and the drowning of [[Percy Bysshe Shelley]], Byron took up a new cause - that of Greek independence from the [[Ottoman Empire]]. Summoning support, he arrived in [[Greece]] with weapons and supplies, but before he could join the fight, went down with a deadly fever ''(malaria)''.'' <ref>[http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0126406/bio Lord Byron] IMDb. </ref>

He was buried in the Parish Church of St. [[Mary Magdalene]] in the town of [[Hucknall]], near [[Nottingham]], in the [[United Kingdom]].

== External links ==

*[http://website.lineone.net/~ssiggeman/biography.html Lord Byron, 1788-1824] Biography.

== References ==

<references/>

[[Category:Authors|Byron, George Gordon, Lord]]
[[Category:Poets]]
[[Category:Bisexuals]]

George Gordon, Lord Byron

2007-12-17T11:49:57Z

Belacqua: