Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Christianity

2008-01-07T02:24:21Z

BRFD: Origins

While it is true that the ''Roman'' Catholic Church might only refer to one rite of Catholicism, the schismatic Orthodox are not Catholic. Also, it is not merely the "original" Christian Church, but the only one, but the "original" semantics are tolerable. --[[User:Luke-Jr|Luke-Jr]] 11:36, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

I just deleted the descriptors after Catholic Church, Roman Catholic Church, and Orthodox Church. Why I did this: The descriptor for Catholic Church used the word ''original''. There would be huge arguments over the use of that word. All of the ancient churches, including the Orthodox, the Roman Catholic, and the Non-Chalcedonians lay claim to that word. The Descriptors for the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches made them seem like different branches of the same church, which of course, is not true. They are not in communion with one another and hold very different ideas about soteriology and ecclessiology.--[[User:Mattk|Mattk]] 05:11, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

: I think that Baptists, Mormons, Protestants, Presbyterians, Jehovah Witnesses, Non Denominationals, etc will all argue that there is more than one Christian Church, and that they all don't belong to the Catholic Church and follow the Pope. --[[User:Orion Blastar|Orion Blastar]] 15:25, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

:: However, this is error on part of the Baptists, Mormons, et al who are not Christians. --[[User:Luke-Jr|Luke-Jr]] 15:26, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christian denominations. Whether or not someone "argues that there are more than one Christian Church" is a non-issue. People can argue whatever they want--that does not mean their points are grounded in truth. The study of the doctrine of the Church, Ecclesiology, is based upon what does Scripture say about who believers are, and what the Body of Christ is. All orthodox (meaning non-heretical)denominiations officially believe there is only one Christian church, one Body of Christ, because that is the Scriptural position. This Body is composed of all those who believe Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose again from the dead for them, justifying them before the Father and giving them eternal life.
"Catholic" has two meanings: with a small "c" means universal; "C" refers to the Roman Catholic branch of Christianity, ruled by the Pope and Magesterium. Christians in the Nicene creed claim to believe "one holy, catholic and apostolic church", meaning one universal body of believers, founded upon the Apostles' teachings we have in the New Testament. This is not a confession believing in Rome's positions, but in the Biblical position of there being only one body of Christ.

Quite honestly, they are widely accepted as Christian. Just because they don't fit your theology doesn't change that. --[[User:Adon|Adon]] 03:41, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

Mormons are not widely accepted as Christians. For example, The Orthodox Church (2nd largest Christian church) accepts the baptisms of almost every church (e.g. baptists, Roman Catholics, Pentecostals, Amish, etc.) but requires Mormons to be baptized when they convert to Orthodoxy.

== Beliefs ==

The first paragraph in this section is incorrect, or incomplete. Not all Christian denominations have the "born again" stance. In some branches of Calvinism, for example, everything is predetermined. No need to be "born again". The Catholic church has also a different interpretation. I guess the orthodox too. What the article describes here is just an anabaptist view, by no means the mainstream view. -- [[User:Order|Order]] 13 March 2007, 22:10 (AEST)

--You are inaccurate. Calvinism does believe in the need for regeneration and being born again. Calvinism is inconsistent, however, and is a good example of what happens when we arrive at a wrong understanding of doctrine, and then try to develop a system of belief around that concept. It would be a natural consequence that if everything is predetermined, there would be no need to be born-again, as you say. Calvinism sees that would be contrary to Scripture, and tries to work around this, but is not able to do so and still arrive at correct doctrine. We should be willing to reject those teachings of our leaders which prove to contradict Holy Scripture. It is inspired by God and inerrant; we are sinful humans,and easily err.

If a denomination does not "have the born-again stance", it is not a Christian denomination, at least on that doctrine. All believers are born-again, regenerated by God at the moment of their belief in Jesus. The sole place of revelation about these issues is in Scripture, and the data must be interpreted correctly, or we arrive at false conclusions, which are un-orthodox and heretical.--[[User:PD Popejoy|PD Popejoy]] 14:46, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

: You have a very evangelical view of the Christianity. But is not the only one. In Catholic church you indeed become a new person when you are baptized, but this can happen as an infant. No need to be "born-again" at later age. Also, Scripture is in Catholic Church only one of the sources, the Cathechism is also important. The Scripture can not be freely interpreted, but the Vatican has an important say in how to live the faith. You position is very protestant or evangelical, but it is just part of the picture. -- [[User:Order|Order]] 13 March 2007, 22:10 (AEST)

The previous few versions were build on [[User:PD Popejoy|PD Popejoy]] view on Christianity. These view were by no means inclusive. If bible study leads you to a certin conclusion, then it good for for the individual, but its quite a stretch to claim that others are misled, or mistaken. This entry should include all denominations. -- [[User:Order|Order]] 13 March 2007, 22:10 (AEST)
:Where does a Christian denomination end and a non-Christian sect feigning Christianity (i.e., a cult) begin? Are Mormons Christians on your view? They stretch a LOT of things, but it is just a matter of degree, right? This is a slippery slope I don't think we should risk traipsing on. If Conservapedia is to live up to its name, it can't be "inclusive" of everyone who calls themselves Christian. The Bible clearly states that the only way to God and Heaven is through belief in the sacrifice of Christ. There will always be those who attempt to take passages out of context (Romans 2:14-16 is a popular victim of this) but that shouldn't get in our way of reporting plain truths. [[User:SavedByGrace|SavedByGrace]] 18:44, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:: Mormons are Christian, if you like it or not. Catholics could also claim that you should all adhere to what the pope says and stop interpreting the scripture as you like. But it doesn't belong here either, because it divisive. The current entry clearly states that different denominations have different views. If you want to put forward the views of your particular denomination, create a new entry on it, put your stuff there, and add a link it to the list of denominations on the Christianity page. If you want to criticize Mormons, create an entry on Mormons, describe them neutrlly, and add a section on criticism on Mormon teachings. But let this page be as inclusive as possible. -- [[User:Order|Order]] 15 March 2007, 12:40 (AEST)

== "the only way to God." ==

In Romans 2:14-16 we read "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel" You have Paul saying that those people who have not heard the law will still be allowed into heaven (and to God) if their life is sufficiently good. One need not only go through Jesus. I will also point to a more controversial translation of Acts 16:17. [http://www.blueletterbible.org/versions.html#yng Young's Literal translation] reads "she having followed Paul and us, was crying, saying, `These men are servants of the Most High God, who declare to us a way of salvation;'" The word [http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?book=Act&chapter=16&verse=17&strongs=3598&page= hodos] is literaly translated as 'a way' - '''a''' course of conduct, '''a''' way of thinking, feeling, deciding, '''a''' travelled way, road. To say that the Bible is the only way contradicts what was written by Paul. --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 17:19, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

==Twisting facts==

This article is very one sided with its representation of the statistics given by the Harris poll that is sourced. Having looked through the source it is clear that only the stats that praise Christianity. For example the article states that "99% of all American Christians believe in God". but fails to mention that the source informs us that just 90% of Americans believe in God. All of the stats given are of the percentage of people that believe in God, which is very bias, as it doesnt show the full picture. [[User:Jennisuk|Jennisuk]] 08:05, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

: This article is about Christians and their beliefs. Therefore, only the numbers from the poll on the beliefs of Christians are of interest here. The numbers for non-Christians and average Americans are still interesting, but if you think they are important, add them to the appropriate articles on "Americans" or "Non-Christians". This has nothing to with bias, but just that the article should stick to its subject ''Christianity'', and not wander off in all kinds of directions.

== Are Evangelicals the only Christians? ==

I just noticed that the artcile on Christianity turned into an evangelical sermon. The Nicean creed is the smallest common demoniator, therefore useful to include, but there is more. The artcile has become less enceeclopedic as it used to be, and omits the little fact that, for example, Catholics do not share the evangelical view on salvation and atonement. [[User:Order]] 30 March 10:35 (AEST)

==Revert==
I think a revert is needed. This article has become less informative more a call to christians to a particularly baptist position. I think it needs to be slimmed down and made less opinion based. I'm quite partial to my last edit. --[[User:Adon|Adon]] 03:39, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

I think my changes have made the article's tone more neutral and factual. I still read a distinctly protestant, southern baptist tone, however. It still rambles a bit, but after my changes it still rambles less. There should also be mention of "fringe" denominations like LDS, Jehova's witnesses, and even Unitarian Universalists.--[[User:Adon|Adon]] 16:57, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

== Anglican ==

Is Anglican Communion part of Protestant Christianity? I think they are not Protestant. Am I wrong?

Thanks for the answer.

--[[User:Joaquín Martínez|Joaquín Martínez]] 14:41, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

==History==

Um... Why doesn't the article include ANYTHING on Christian history?--[[User:Elamdri|Elamdri]] 02:42, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

==Etymology==

"Jesus Christ" is not actually Jesus's name. Both "Christ" and "Christianity" come from the Greek word "Christos", meaning "Savior" --Noam Samuel
:See [[Yeshua]] [[Image:User Fox.png]] [[User:Fox|Fox]] ([[User talk:Fox|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Fox|contribs]]) 07:45, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

It may not be his name but it is his title. He is called Jesus Christ for the same reason that George Bush is called President Bush. --[[User:BenjaminS|Ben]] [[User Talk:BenjaminS|Talk]] 08:31, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

==Murder==

Why shouldn't the Christianity page get a part devoted to how it is connected to murder? Perhaps one similar to that that is on the page about atheism would be in order. --[[User:Batista|Batista]] 23:22, 7 November 2007 (EST)

== Origins ==

This article is missing an important fact about christianity. It is the only religion entirely based around denying that someones mum and dad ever had sex.

Democratic Party

2008-01-02T13:00:02Z

BRFD: impeachment to impeach

[[Image:democraticpartyusalogo.png|right|thumb|200px|Official logo of the Democratic Party.]]

The '''Democratic Party''' is one of the two major political [[parties]] in the [[United States of America]]. It is generally seen as being politically between center and [[leftist | left]] of center, while the rival [[Republican Party]] is positioned to the [[rightist | right]] of center (see [[political spectrum theory]]). Members and supporters of the Democratic Party are known as Democrats. The Democratic Party is the recipient of 85% of all [[Corporation|corporate]] lobbying [[money|cash]] according to ''Roll Call'' newspaper's top-20 list of corporate influence donations.<ref>[http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110010753 Comfy With K Street Democrats tell business to pay up or else], Stephen Moore, OpinionJournal.com, October 19, 2007.</ref>

The Democrats currently control the [[110th United States Congress]] together with the majority of State governorships and legislatures.<ref>[http://www.multistate.com/Site.nsf/Elections2006PostMaps?OpenPage Multistate.com] Post-Election 2006 Maps</ref> According to a Pew Research Center poll, 50 percent of Americans identify themselves with the Democratic Party as opposed to 35 percent for the Republican Party.<ref>[http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=312 Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007] Pew Research Center, 22 March 2007</ref> However, Democrats have served out only three of the last ten presidential terms. The Zogby Poll reports Democrats in the US Congress currently have an 11% approval rating.<ref>[http://www.reuters.com/news/globalcoverage/rzi Reuters/Zogby Poll], September 19, 2007.</ref> It is the lowest approval rating since Democrats sought to [[impeach]] popularly elected President [[Richard Nixon]] when the Poll was intitiated in 1974. <ref>[http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=28456 Congress Approval Rating Matches Historical Low], by Jeffrey M. Jones, Gallup News Service, August 21, 2007.</ref> ''Investor's Business Daily'' remarked, "For all the promises of its new Democratic leaders, Congress seems truly interested in doing only one thing: surrendering in [[Iraq]]. No wonder its public approval ratings have sunk below the president's." <ref>[http://ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=264123134498383&kw=For,all,the,promises The Do-One-Thing Congress], ''Investor's Business Daily, May 15, 2007.</ref>

Like the Republicans, the Democrats are currently selecting their candidate for the [[2008 Presidential Election|2008 presidential election]]; the front-runners in the contest are Senator [[Hillary Clinton]] of [[New York]] and Senator [[Barack Obama]] of [[Illinois]]. The most recent president who was a Democrat was [[Bill Clinton]], who served from 1993 to 2001.

In 2007, the Democratic National Committee put forward a scheme to violate the principal of equal and proportionate representation in [[Florida]]'s [[2008_Presidential_Election#Democratic_Strategy|2008 Presidential Primary Election]] for delegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convenetion.<ref>[http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/F/FL_DEMOCRATIC_PRIMARY_FLOL-?SITE=FLPET&SECTION=HOME Fla. Democrats warn of voting rights probe if state sanctioned], By Rasha Madkour, Associated Press, Aug 23, 2007. Retrieved from ''St. Petersberg Times'' August 24, 2007.</ref> The ''St. Petersberg Times'' quotes a letter from Florida Senator [[Bill Nelson]] and others Democratic members of the Florida Congressional delegation sent to DNC Chairman [[Howard Dean]] protesting a move by the Committee to violate individual [[Voting Rights Act|voting rights]],
{{Cquote|It always has been a priority of our party to protect the rights of every eligible American to vote," the letter said. "We would hope the DNC will continue to honor this right.}}

==History==
The Democratic Party was founded in 1792 by [[Thomas Jefferson]] as a congressional caucus to fight for the [[Bill of Rights]] and to oppose the elitist [[Federalist Party]] led by [[Alexander Hamilton]], which fought for the [[Constitution]].

In 1798 , the party was officially named the "Democratic-Republican Party", and in 1800 Jefferson was elected as the first Democratic [[President of the United States]]. Jefferson, a member of the landed gentry and a slave owner, served two terms as president with distinction, and was succeeded by another Democrat, [[James Madison]], in 1808 . During Madison's tenure, the United States fought the [[United Kingdom]] and lost terribly during the [[War of 1812]]. Forces from Canada beat back Madison's militias and even managed to burn the White House down. James Monroe, another Democratic-Republican, was elected president in 1816 and led the nation through a time commonly known as "The Era of Good Feelings". In this period, the party dominated American politics with little opposition. Monroe was followed by John Quincy Adams who won the hotly contested election of 1824, becoming the first son of a former president to be elected president.

[[Andrew Jackson]], defeated Adams in the 1828 election and signed into law the [[Indian Removal Act of 1830]] <ref>[http://edweb.tusd.k12.az.us/UHS/APUSH/1st%20Sem/Articles%20Semester%201/Artiles%20Semester%201/Remini.htm Andrew Jackson and Indian Removal], by Robert Remini.</ref> according to the Democratic National Committee's website is "considered — along with Jefferson — one of the founding fathers of the Democratic Party." <ref>[http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/06/our_history.php Democratic National Committee, ''Our History''], retrieved 25 March 2007.</ref> Annual Jefferson-Jackson Day celebrations nationwide by local chapters of the Democratic Party commemorate the two founders of the Democratic Party. <ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022001949.html String of Successes Enlivens Democratic Party], Michael D. Shear, ''The Washington Post'', 22 February 2007.</ref> The Indian Removal Act, enforced through a series of dishonest dealings with native people such as the Treaty of Dancing Rabitt Creek and the Treaty of New Echota, resulted in the wholesale deportation of Native Americans from the Southeastern states to Indian Territory (present day Oklahoma). <http://digital.library.okstate.edu/kappler/>

The Jacksonian period also saw the expansion of the voting franchise as most states did away with, or decreased property requirements for voting. The beneficiaries of the expansion of the franchise however, were nearly all white males. Annual Jefferson-Jackson Day celebrations nationwide by local chapters of the Democratic Party commemorate the two founders of the Democratic Party. <ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/20/AR2007022001949.html String of Successes Enlivens Democratic Party], Michael D. Shear, ''The Washington Post'', 22 February 2007.</ref>

Democrat [[Franklin Roosevelt]], who served as President from 1933 to 1945, led the United States during the [[Great Depression]] and throughout most of the [[Second World War]]. He remains the only President elected to four terms. Under his successor, [[Harry Truman]] the United States emerged a victor from World War II and articulated the Doctrine of [[Containment]] which committed the U.S. to stop the spread of global [[Communism]]. Truman ordered the Berlin airlift in 1948 and sent U.S. troops to Korea in 1950.

==Policies and criticism==

In June 2005, while Democrats held a mock impeachment inquiry in President's Bush's foreign policy, [[anti-Semitic]] materials were distributed at the Democratic Party National headquarters. The literature claimed that an Israeli company had warning of the [[September 11, 2001 attacks]], and an "insider trading scam" on Wall Street had occurred simultaneously. <ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/16/AR2005061601570.html Democrats Play House To Rally Against the War], Dana Milbank, ''Washington Post'', June 17, 2005.</ref>

The views of individual Democrats sometimes diverge from the party's official stance as expressed in its national platform, however unlike the Republican party, the Democratic National Committee has not allowed dissenting opinions to share the podium on matters such as abortion at National Conventions.

R. Emmetrt Tyrell has been highly critical of the current Democratic leadership, stating, "Can anything embarrass [[Speaker Pelosi]] and the rest of the Democratic leadership? Frankly I doubt it. They are all neatly shut off from the world in their fantasy of moral and intellectual superiority." <ref>[http://www.nysun.com/article/54321 Vietnam All Over Again] By R. Emmett Tyrell Jr., ''The New York Sun'', May 11, 2007.</ref>

===Economic policy===
In the field of economic policy, Democrats favor high progressive taxes, higher government spending and increasing the minimum wage.'

The Democratic Party has historically had ties to [[labor union|organized labor]]. <ref> http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/913wopoz.asp Paying Dues - The Democrats settle up with their union bosses, [[Weekly Standard]], July 25, 2007 </ref>

The [[National Education Association]],<ref>[http://www.nea.org/index.html National Education Association homepage]</ref> the largest union of public school teachers, is a backbone of the party, supplying the largest number of delegates to its national conventions.

In addition to the Democratic party's reported stance to "tax the rich," some members of the Congressional Democratic Leadership have proposed a 50 cent per gallon tax increase on gasoline which would disproportionately hurt those least able to absorb the cost at a time when worldwide gas prices are at historic highs. <ref>[http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/dingell-to-propose-50-cent-gasoline-tax-increase-2007-07-07.html Dingell to propose 50 cent gasoline tax increase], By Chris Good, ''The Hill'', July 07, 2007.</ref>

===Foreign and military policy===
According to its platform, the Democratic Party has the objective of strengthening America. Democratic national leadership has been accused of being ambivalent about terrorism<ref>[http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=22045 "Democrats, ACLU Outraged Over Traveler Terrorism Screening Program"] C. Johnson, Associated Press</ref> and insufficiently patriotic. <ref>[http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0112/01/smn.19.html CNN Saturday Morning News]Transcript: December 1, 2001 </ref> A poll conducted by ''[[Fox News]]'' released in October 2007 found 1 in 5 Democrats-nearly 10 million voters, think the world will be better off if the [[United States]] were to lose the [[War in Iraq]]<ref>[http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,299374,00.html Nearly 1 in 5 Democrats Say World Will Be Better Off if U.S. Loses War], FOX News Poll, October 04, 2007.</ref> The poll found this sentiment 3 to 4 times higher among Democrats than among moderate, centrist, and Republican voters.

===Education===
An organization affiliated with the [[Democratic Leadership Council]] called the [[Progressive Policy Institute]] which claims a long standing opposition to school vouchers <ref>21st Century Schools Project Bulletin: Special Edition [http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=110&subsecID=900001&contentID=250630 ''Putting Vouchers in Perspective''], PPI E-newsletter 2 July 2002</ref> reported Jonathan Alter of ''Newsweek'' saying,
:"Can wealthy white liberals - many of whom send their kids to private school - really say to poor parents: 'We can have choices, but you must not?'...This is a glaring hypocrisy sitting at the heart of the liberal opposition to targeted vouchers… Right now, Democrats are in a highly compromised position on education." <ref>[http://www.edreform.com/index.cfm?fuseAction=newsLetter&sectionID=29&NLissueID=4&articleID=11&altCol=2 Center For Education Reform, Monthly Letter to Friends No. 75], Back to School 2002.</ref>

===Environment vs Labor===
Two other important coalition groups also find themselves in direct conflict with each other within the Democratic party coalition--[[Environmentalist]]s and Labor Unions. While environmentalists support efforts like clean air and alternative fuels, for example, this creates tension with the workers of American automobile manufactures whose jobs are threatened by environmental policies such as increasing regulations and high costs. Such policies can lead to cutbacks and layoffs. Balancing these issues is difficult because some sacrifices of interests must be made by both sides.

===Healthcare===
The Democrat fondness for heavy government intervention into the marketplace and social engineering means that a significant proportion of their base and of their candidates for the 2008 U.S. Presidential Election ideologically favor introducing a system of [[socialized healthcare]]; regardless of the crippling tax burden this would require to sustain itself and the low standard of care achieved by socialized health programs in other countries compared to the United States. However, many first world nations such as France and Britain do have socialized healthcare systems, and are ranked 1 and 18 by the [[World Health Organization]]<ref>http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html</ref>, respectively, compared to the United States' rank of 37. Therefore, many argue that there may be some advantages to a universal health care system. Democrats generally regard [[universal healthcare]] to be a priority because of the appeal to nearly 50 million voters without any kind of [[health insurance]]. Among the leading proponents for this idea include [[Barack Obama|Sen. Barack Obama]] and [[John Edwards|Sen. John Edwards]]; the latter formerly being the running mate to [[John Kerry|Sen. John Kerry]] in the [[2004 Presidential Election]].

===Homosexual Agenda===
Democrat lawmakers and opinion-formers consistently favor measures such as the establishment of [[same-sex civil union]]s, [[gay marriage]] and [[gay adoption]] of children over defense of the [[traditional family]]. Likewise they are vigorous in attempting to amend "[[hate crime]]" laws, which some experts maintain would make criticism of the [[homosexual lifestyle]] illegal;<ref>[http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54535 Christian belief a 'hate crime' under plan], WorldNetDaily, March 3, 2007. </ref> while at the same time supporting efforts to disseminate favorable opinions regarding [[homosexuality]] through channels such as the mainstream media and even the educational system in the face of opposition from churches and religious authorities, a broad coalition of [[Republican Party|Republican]] and Independent politicians. Democrats reject the idea of a [[Homosexual agenda]] preferring to speak in terms of [[Gay rights|"gay rights"]] when this issue is raised; the Democratic Party is the recipient and beneficiary of funding from homosexual lobbying groups and can be seen by their positions as the United States' largest and most powerful ''de facto'' supporter of the Homosexual Agenda. <ref>[http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.asp?ID=D000000158 Human Rights Campaign], opensecrets.org </ref>

===Other Policies===
Democrats frequently support the minimum wage, workplace protections, the right of women to choose to have an [[abortion]], [[gun control]], gay marriage, and the separation of church and state.

==Religion==
In the United States, there is some correlation between religious and political affiliation, though people of all faiths and denominations can be found among the supporters of each of the main parties.

Both historically and today, [[Roman Catholic Church|Catholic]] voters have had a tendency to identify with the Democratic Party, and a number of Democratic office-holders, such as Speaker of the House [[Nancy Pelosi]], are Catholics. However, several general ideals of the Democratic Party's platform - most notably, the party's overall support for the legality of [[abortion]] - are contrary to the position of the [[Catholic Church]].

With regard to [[Protestant]] Christians, members of [[Evangelical]] churches in particular are associated with the [[Republican Party]]. However, the large majority of Democratic Party members are Protestants. One unusual feature of the Democratic Party, however, is that it draws substantial support both from committed African-American Protestant Christians and from secular and atheist white voters. The strong opposition to [[homosexuality]] found among many Black Protestant Christians (and, indeed, among orthodox Catholics) contrasts strikingly with the support frequently shown by other Democrats for the [[homosexual agenda]]. One reason for this contrast could be the Democrats' strong support for minority rights.

Democrats also generally believe that religion should be separate from public life, and as such are typically supported by the ACLU. For example, in 1999 the Congress took up a bill to protect the display of the [[Ten Commandments]]. In the House of Representatives, over 3/4ths of the Democratic party members voted to remove the display. <ref>http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/06/18/gun.rollcall/ten.commandments.html</ref>. The measure did not pass the Legislature, and as a result when Justice [[Roy Moore]] posted a [[Ten Commandments]] display in his courthouse, the ACLU was able to have the display removed.

==Democratic Presidents==
* [[Andrew Jackson]] (1829-1837)
* [[Martin Van Buren]] (1837-1841)
* [[James K. Polk]] (1845-1849)
* [[Franklin Pierce]] (1853-1857)
* [[James Buchanan]] (1857-1861)
* [[Grover Cleveland]] (1885-1889) (1893-1897)
* [[Woodrow Wilson]] (1913-1921)
* [[Franklin Roosevelt]] (1933-1945)
* [[Harry S Truman]] (1945-1953)
* [[John F. Kennedy]] (1961-1963)
* [[Lyndon B. Johnson]] (1963-1969)
* [[Jimmy Carter]] (1977-1981)
* [[Bill Clinton]] (1993-2001)

==See also==
*[[Phonemarks]]
*[[Previous Breaking News/Democrats|Articles about '''Democrats''' from previous "Breaking News"]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

==External links==
*[http://www.democrats.org/ Democratic Party Official Site]
*[http://www.therealdemocratstory.com/ The Real Democrat Story], Open the File on the Freshmen Democrats.

[[Category:United States Political Organizations]]
[[Category:United States Political Parties]]

User talk:BRFD

2007-12-31T16:21:08Z

BRFD:

{{welcome|sig=[[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 09:15, 31 December 2007 (EST)}}

If you please, explain your need for proxy IPs from England, Colorado, and Texas, and why you have a sock named AngryCommunist. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 11:09, 31 December 2007 (EST)
::I'm using a proxy ip because I don't seem to be able to reach the site from my standard english ip address, the only reason i'm having to change them is that you keep blocking them. Also i don't have a sock named AngryCommunist i assume they must just be using the same proxy as me. ([[User:BRFD|BRFD]] 11:13, 31 December 2007 (EST))
:::And why would we keep blocking you? Were you here before as...? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 11:16, 31 December 2007 (EST)
::::I'm not so conceited that I believe you are specifically trying to block me rather that I was using proxy ips which have been blocked due to their use by vandals/trolls in the past. I haven't previously been on this site. ([[User:BRFD|BRFD]] 11:21, 31 December 2007 (EST))

User:BRFD

2007-12-31T16:15:25Z

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User talk:BRFD

2007-12-31T16:13:19Z

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2007-12-31T16:12:46Z

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User:BRFD

2007-12-31T16:06:27Z

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2007-12-31T16:03:32Z

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Talk:Margaret Thatcher

2007-12-31T03:35:48Z

BRFD: /* Education */

{{protect|TK}}

''Thatcher won elections as Prime Minister from 1979-1990, ''however''', prior to her politcal career she performed in adult movies under the name of "Margaret Snatcher".'''''' Next to Winston Churchill many consider Thatcher to be the most important British political leader of the twentieth century.''

Goodness! Doesn't anyone do any checking?

--[[User:TK|TK]] 19:39, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
:You just did! Thanks. [[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 19:57, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

TK - I am confused as to why you have reverted my expansion of this article - whilst a firm supporter of most of Mrs Thatcher's reforms I do not feel an entry that does not mention the controversy caused in parts of the UK or the manner of her departure can be considered encyclopedic, since so much current British policy and policy in other countries with Thatcherite governments is still inspired by the reactions to the more unpopular policies of her final term of office? [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 07:57, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:Agreed; there was nothing there I'd class as 'editorial.' I've restored your material. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 08:00, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

*Material was reverted back, and edited again. You seem at odds with the Sysop, Aschlafly, and his instructions to me. --[[User:TK|TK]] 20:31, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

=="Alcoholism"==
Just to clarify - I have mentioned her alcoholism whilst in office not out of prurience, but because it has a direct bearing on public perceptions of her in her final term. Her drink problem whilst in office is a matter of public record and I've cited reputable news sources as such. The citation to the left-wing "Class War" party is included not because I support them in any way but to illustrate the unusually high degree of polarisation she caused - no other Conservative leader, including Bush in the US, appears to have generated such hatred, as opposed to dislike and disagreement, from left wingers.[[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 08:26, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

*I received this response from the Sysop, Andrew: "So edit them, please. That's what wiki software is for. If you encounter a locked page, which I doubt for Margaret Thatcher, then the talk page is the appropriate place for your comments. '''Claims of alcoholism appear like gossip to me, by the way, which would be against our rules"'''--Aschlafly 20:14, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

::I have not reverted TK's deletion of my edit on her alleged alcoholism but I disagree that it's gossip. Whether or not it was true, the fact that reputable news sources were ''claiming'' that she was an alcoholic (examples at [http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=273&id=317702002], [http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,11381,901553,00.html]) had a direct bearing on her sudden drop in support in her third term and the Conservative Party's removing her as leader, which in turn had major consequences for conservative politics worldwide. I feel that an article on Thatcher that does not mention her forced removal from office is like an article on Nixon or Clinton that failed to mention impeachment.

::I am confused at TK's allegation that I "cited Wikipedia as a source" in this article - my edit contained three citations, one to the BBC, one to the ''Guardian'' newspaper and one to a left wing site, intended to illustrate the type of left-wing opposition to Thatcher and clearly marked as such. I also would like to point out to TK that I am not a 'disgruntled Scottish liberal' as he implies in his edit summaries - while I grew up in Norfolk, about as far from Scotland as it is possible to be in the UK, I now live and work in the US, and have never been 'a liberal' in the US sense of the word. In the British, libertarian sense of the word, then yes, I am a liberal but so I would guess are 90% of contributors here.[[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 06:51, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

*Tracy, although I might have mistook you for a Scottish liberal, I wasn't confusing your edits with those, in many places, by others...citing Wikipedia. Sorry if my posting of Andrew Schlafly's note about Wikipedia was taken as aimed at you. It certainly was not. I am however researching several sources to vet the alcoholism deal. Scotsman.com isn't actually what one would consider mainstream media, such as the London Times, is it? If you will email me, I can give you my IM and perhaps you could enlighten me more on this....sound fair? Please understand that a drink or five isn't exactly noteworthy where it concerns politicians, anywhere in the world, and I believe Sir Winston and President Roosevelt might have out-drank Lady Thatcher 3 to 1. and encyclopedia's the world over haven't deemed it germain to include in their pieces on them, other than a side-note. I cannot find anything concrete, from a reputable source that claims the main reason she was ousted was drinking. Thanks, my name is Terry, btw.......... --[[User:TK|TK]] 07:13, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Hi Tracy. I've looked at your two quotes above and neither of them uses the word "alcoholism", so - at least from the two sources you quote above - that would appear to be (shall we say) an over interpretation on your part. Additionally I'm not sure that I'd regard either "The Scotsman" or "The Guardian" as particularly neutral sources as far as Mrs thatcher is concerned anyway. Finally, in the light of her many accomplishments such as winning the miner's strike, winning the Falklands war, reducing the power of the trades unions, giving people the right to own their own council houses etc etc, an attempt to give significant space to an unfounded allegation that she was an alcoholic simply looks like an attempt to damage her reputation. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 16:06, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

She certainly isn't an alcoholic by clinical standards, but the memoirs of her colleagues do consistently paint a picture of her as a heavy drinker. In contrast to Winston Churchill it never got to the stage where it caused her to become incapable of performing her public functions, so I don't think it merits inclusion in a short encyclopaedia entry. It might be worth noting in a detailed account of her decline and fall as a symptom of her increasing political isolation.--[[User:Jalapeno|Jalapeno]] 02:54, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

== Wikipedia Citations/Sourcing ==

Since the Conservapedia is billed as an alternative to Wikipedia, which is deemed by the Founders as culturally, religiously and politically biased, why in God's name are editors using information from that source to substantiate their information/edits here?

Many of us start from the premise Wikipedia is a suspect source. Please find alternative source information, otherwise there isn't really a point to this "alternative" is there? I am seeing editing here that uses citations from the same author's work at Wikipedia, or quoting material not properly sourced on Wikipedia. That simply isn't an acceptable practice, and is intellectually dishonest.

--TK 19:29, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

*'''You're right. Wikipedia is NOT an acceptable source or authority. Please edit the offending pages and alert the contributors. The mistakes could have been innocent, of course.--Aschlafly 19:32, 15 March 2007 (EDT)'''

== AustinM ==

Is there some reason that you failed to explain your wholesale removal of material here? When editing, removing, one is expected to leave notes. --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:11, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:I agree - he has also deleted the entire entry for [[John Major]], which I have reverted. [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 12:27, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
::suspected vandalism and spoof articles. I did search for references to alcoholism for thatcher and could not find any which were not from scurrilous left wing journals. As a matter of course I rv all edits by the user. I will ban if such behaviour continues. --[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 13:35, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:::AustinM - I've provided 2 citations from major & reputable UK newspapers (''The Scotsman'' and ''The Guardian'') as examples. As I posted above when originally adding this paragraph it does ''not'' allege that Thatcher was an alcoholic but that mainstream UK news media were ''saying'' she was which had a direct bearing on the Conservative Party's decision to remove her from office. In light of your remarks about my 'vandalism', I see that you have replaced my lengthy entry on [[John Major]] - one of the longest serving Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century - with the single line "He achieved very little". [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 15:01, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:*'''Tracy''', read above and edit in the caption where you are responded to, please? :p The Scotsman is judged NOT to be mainstream media, and the Sysadmin, has ruled it it gossip.---- '''AUSTIN''': Please provide a reason for your removal of the paragraphs, pertient to Thatcher, that you removed, as requested, or I will revert it back. You are a Sysop...please do try to communicate!

I plan to leave this article well alone as I have no intention of starting a Wikipedia style reversion war. Austin, I have replied to you three times, on your talk page, my talk page and [[talk:John Major]]. I also wonder how ''The Scotsman'' - the largest circulation non-tabloid newspaper in the country - can possibly be 'non mainstream'? Terry as per your request above (sorry I have only just noticed), I can be contacted via email, the address on here should be valid, however in light of the fact that every single change I have made to date appears to be being reverted I think it's unlikely I will be staying here! [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 19:20, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:*Tracy, I shall look for the email. Takes some getting used to, this place, and I at least, am interested in learning about this Thatcher information. I too have had the experience you mention, these syops here just will not communicate at all, nor explain what they do. Austin removed several paragraphs I added about Thatcher, not even leaving a note as to why. That is really poor judgement, and I have written to (ASchlafly) Andrew Schlafly about such matters, and I suggest you do. Rob is the only sysop who at least bothered to post. --[[User:TK|TK]] 19:36, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

::My apologies everyone my conncetion has been down so I have not been able to respond. I was removing edits by Tracy as I repeatedly tried to find mainstream confirmation of her edits and couldn't. My understanding of Thatchers removal was that it was due to her losing control of her cabinet and being percieved as being out of touch. Alcoholism did not feature. Although her husband liked a drink it has to be said. Please carry on editing and I will be more careful next time. TK you can find a apology from me on your talk pages. regards --[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 11:21, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*'''Austin, all's well that ends well, I say! Thanks for being so dedicated and chasing her down! Send me an email from here, and I will shoot you my IM handle on AIM, as we both seem to be around the late, early, whatever hours, and maybe keeping in touch, we can work better to foil those trolls. Same for you, Conservative & Cracker'''. --[[User:TK|TK]] 15:56, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Is this a joke? ==

"Also Thatcher supported the United States actions against the Communists lead by President Ronald Reagan. "

Ronald Reagan did not lead the Communists! [[User:Myk|Myk]] 19:45, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::AGAINST [[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 19:46, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

* You guys need to go back, and see all the material Austin removed, with no explanation....**rolls eyes**--[[User:TK|TK]] 20:05, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Yes, now that I've had a look at it, one does wonder why all of that was removed. Without, as you say, any explanation. Bit strange. Can we have an explanation? --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 20:16, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

*Doesn't seem as if we are important enough to be responded to, eh? Most of these people are running about like chickens with their heads cut off, without any proper procedures for communication. --[[User:TK|Terry]] 23:10, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:Finally. '''Not like Wikipedia at all'''. --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 23:14, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

So can the stuff be re-inserted? (I'm a bit new at this) The vast majority of the stuff was very good. If there are individual points we disagree with we can discuss them here. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 04:10, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:* Well, I was waiting to hear from Austin...but seems to be hiding under his desk... ;-) --[[User:TK|TK]] 10:58, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

::It looks open for editing to me. --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 11:00, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
::Remember: Citing truth that isn't "conservative enough" = vandalism. Doubleplus goodthink! --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 11:02, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*ROFL! I'll revert it back after my breakfast, or you can, Cracker. ;-) Maybe that will smoke sysop Austin out. :p --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:06, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Stifled the British coal and newspaper industries? ==
I thought this was Conservapedia nbot socialapedia and to claim that her fight against the unions stifled the coal and newspaper industries is nothing more than socialist propaganda. You only have to look at Rupert murdoch tom also realise it was untrue propaganda as, of course, her fight against the unions is what re-invigorated Britain, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 20:26, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:I don't think that anyone - right or left - would deny that she stifled the coal industry and the newspaper unions - these are probably the two most significant achievements of her time in office, even more than privatization! The only thing left and right would differ on on whether it was justified. [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 13:50, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Well, unions in general were a lot less powerful when she left office, and the Coal and Newspaper ones were weakened more than most. So I'd say that "stifled" was relatively moderate language. Words like "crushed" or, perhaps even better, "emasculated" spring eagerly to ones lips. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 15:04, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:*Squeakbox, what was said is, she fought the unions, not the coal and newspaper industry. We had a few vandals who were re-writing the page to better suit their liking, not the facts. As Time magazine said of her "Champion of free minds and markets, she helped topple the welfare state and make the world safer for capitalism." And I say here! bloody here! --[[User:TK|TK]] 15:52, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Dumezil22 ==

Please do NOT make surreptitious tense changes, that are misleading and inaccurate. Among the changes that bothered me the most:

1: You removed "corrupt" from the line about the coal and newspaper unions, and corrupt, indeed, they were.

2: You changed a paragraph to make it appear Thatcher was defeated for another term as PM. She was not. She withdrew from consideration, because on the first vote her opponet came within only a few votes of defeating her, and after she and her advisors decided she would not win on the 2nd ballot. To state she was defeated is inaccurate and misleading. A party willing to allow her to withdraw, rather than suffer humiliation at being voted out, holds someone in very high regard. --[[User:TK|TK]] 18:24, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*This is an American Conservapedia. Her maiden name was Roberts, and thus it is included before her married name. In America. Where this is hosted, that is what we do. If you are unsure, please stop editing, or ask, here, for advice. It is overboard to even suggest she is arguably the best PM in history, great as I believe her to be, and many her accomplishments. Remember Americans have a different style of writing than in the UK, and the rules here state that is the writing and spelling style. I must say you are snide in saying you are "tidying up" and then making major changes, rather than discuss them before like you have been invited to do. --[[User:TK|TK]] 07:46, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:I'm sorry you regard my edits as inappropriate and "snide". Personally, I'm surprised you find them so unacceptable, and your wholesale revert seems unnecessary to me. I don't want to get into a revert war, however. On your specific points:
:1. The British Conservative critique of the unions is not that they were corrupt, but that they were Neanderthal and socialist (I can only recall one instance of union corruption). I'm not sure what your source is here.
:2. I stated that Lady T was never defeated in a general election, and I did not state that she was defeated in the leadership election. I'm surprised that you apparently seem to object to my statement that she was removed from office by her MPs. I would respectfully suggest that you haven't correctly understood the dynamics of the 1990 leadership election or the circumstances of her withdrawal. "If you are unsure, please ask, here, for advice...." ;-)
:3. I'm happy for people to remove Britishisms from my edits. However, to label a Brit with a distinctively American form of name that she has never used in her life seems incorrect. After all, if Conservapedia was ''South'' American, she wouldn't be described as "Margaret Roberts de Thatcher". --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 14:05, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*1, Corrupt is corrupt, no? The Times says they were corrupt.

*2, She was NEVER removed!! Try to get it! She declined to stand for a second vote, when her advisors and she realized she wouldn't have the votes! THAT MEANS SHE WAS NOT REMOVED, But DECLINED TO STAND FOR A VOTE! It is the difference between being sacked, or allowed to resign!

::Being there at the time, it was absolutely clear that although she chose to not stand for re-election as leader in the second poll (and so was not defeated), she was definitely forced out of office against her will. Her initial reaction after the first poll was to carry on - it took a few days for the reality of her position to sink in. By not standing, candidates more to her liking than arch-enemy Heseltine were able to throw their hats into the ring, allowing senior minister John Major to take over. I would advocate using the phrase "forced from office" rather than "defeated" or "allowed to resign" as a more accurate reflection of what actually happened. [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 08:47, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

*3, It means not a wit where someone is from. Here the rules are, use American spelling and customs. Start your own UK Conservapedia, and enforce your customs there. --[[User:TK|TK]] 10:34, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:TK, if you'd like to make your knowledge of the 1990 leadership election even more extensive and formidable, I recommend ''A Conservative Coup'' by Alan Watkins, which also has other information about Lady T. It's by a liberal journalist, but it's quite interesting. I understand that the original title was ''A Conservative Who Was Allowed to Resign by a Party that Held Her in Very High Regard''.

:Well, I've done the maths, and I think my labour here is finished. I won't add any more colour to this article, and I'll leave TK to the defence of Lady T's honour. I'm going to log off now and enjoy having a fag. --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 14:46, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*Pity you couldn't be bothered to follow the source links. It is 10 Downings own website where it explains about her not standing for the second vote. I think users of this wiki will be more inclined to believe that source, wot? And as the book title you recommend says exactly what I have been saying, I guess there isn't a need to look at it, eh? Since she did what she did, it is technically what it is. It would be intellectually dishonest to say they forced her out, since she didn't allow that to happen. Introducing comments that I deleted, because I thought better of making them, letting them remain, only makes you a very small, petty creature. If you think it embarasses me, you are right. If you received some satisfaction from it, I shall pray for you. --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:03, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:You're right, I shouldn't have quoted your deleted comments. While I thought they were unfair, I've removed them now, and I apologise. As to the rest, I enjoy political history, and the events of November 1990 would be interesting to discuss further. They (and their aftermath and consequences) may at some point deserve their own section of this article, when it grows and develops. Let's leave it for the moment, though.

:Maybe a more constructive line of enquiry would be to ask what amendments to the intro you would support making? I still think it's not in a satisfactory state at the moment. One suggestion would be to split it into separate sub-paragraphs. Also, I'm now going to add a skeleton section on Lady T's pre-1979 career, which isn't covered at present. --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 17:16, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*I've asked a few people about this, specificically your question, so give me a day or two. Thanks for addding the section pre-79 info! Good show! --[[User:TK|TK]] 01:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
----

----

I tried to add some useful additions to the pre-1979 section explaining the background to the Brighton bomb but it was removed due to 'lack of citation'. I'm new here - how do you add citations? [[User:Commandment9]]

*Commandment9, after you add whatever it is you want to, copy and paste the URL to wherever it is you sourced your contribution from, say, you read it in the NY Times, you would copy and paste the URL right after your addition, and put brackets [ like this ] around it, and the software will automatically format the link, and number it. Citations are added to back-up what is posted, as opposed to opinion, which has no place in an encyclopedia, generally. See the "Help" link to the left of this page, to learn about how to edit and do all kinds of things. --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 09:26, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Terry thanks for explaining that. I can't do anything on this page as it's now protected but I'll try to remember about citations in future. To whoever removed my paragraph on the 1981 IRA Hunger Strike, I was only trying to put the later references to the Brighton Bomb into context as the bomb was a response by the IRA to what they saw as Margaret Thatcher letting the hunger strikers die. It was of course simply an early example of her not giving in to blackmail.

*If you copy the citation here, I can paste it back into the document. No problem. Glad to have you here, btw, welcome! --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 18:58, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

== Editing ==

How come I was allowed to make changes and then, after putting in a lot of time and work and trying to save the changes, was told the page was locked? This does not make for happy editors. For anyone who is interested, here is my amended version, which I think is clearer in some areas. I hope that a suysop might use this.

[[Image:503px-Thatcher-loc.jpg|right|thumb|Margaret Thatcher as Leader of the Opposition in 1975.]]

'''Margaret Hilda Roberts Thatcher''', later Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven (born October 13, 1925), became the leader of the Conservative Party in [[The United Kingdom]] in February 1975. She was opposed to socialism and out-of-control union power which had brought down the previous Conservative government in 1974. She ran on these issues which resulted in her being chosen as Prime Minister in May 1979 with the Conservatives sweeping into power.

Lady Thatcher sold many of the nationalized industries back to private investors and made tax cuts. Thatcher stood up against the powerful Labour Party unions, thus encouraging the British coal and newspaper industries by breaking the power of the unions who had a stranglehold over these industries. Due to her strong standards and her leadership style, she became known as the "Iron Lady," a term originally coined as an insult by the communist [[Soviet Union]], but one she adopted with glee. Another famous statement of hers is that "the lady is not for turning" Thatcher was always a strong supporter of the the United States, and was a good friend of President [[Ronald Reagan]], uniting with him in actions against the Communists.

She led Britain to victory against [[Argentina]] in a 1982 war over ownership of the [[Falkland Islands]], and though the United States was allied with both countries, and did initially try to broker a negotiated settlement. When that failed, the U.S. supported Britain and not Argentina with vital intelligence information. There is still debate as to the extent to which the war was contrived, as victory in a conflict would have suited both the Argentine [[Junta]] and the then unpopular Thatcher. The conflict led to a strong friendship with the Chilean military, [[Pinochet]].

Thatcher won three elections between 1979 and decision not to stand for a second party vote in 1990, when it became apparent she wouldn't have the needed votes. Margaret Thatcher was the longest serving Prime Minister in more than 150 years, and alongside Winston Churchill, many consider her to be one of the two most important British political leaders of the twentieth century.

Her regime was controversial however. Social mobility decreased, whilst eduction and the [[National Health Service]] suffered a number of cuts. [[Unemployment]] rose to unprecedented levels, exceeding one in ten, and the method of counting was regularly altered to lower the published figures. Many of her actions in the north of England seemed petulant, infamously the sudden closure of much of the mining industry, whilst refusing to interfere with the consequences.

She fundamentally moved the British economy from an industrialist model, to a financial, speculative economy. This shift also served to undermine trade union power with fewer people in stable long term employment and instead in the service industry.

[[Time Magazine]] wrote of Lady Thatcher: ''"She was the catalyst who set in motion a series of interconnected events that gave a revolutionary twist to the century's last two decades and helped mankind end the millennium on a note of hope and confidence. The triumph of capitalism, the almost universal acceptance of the market as indispensable to prosperity, the collapse of Soviet imperialism, the downsizing of the state on nearly every continent and in almost every country in the world — Margaret Thatcher played a part in all those transformations, and it is not easy to see how any would have occurred without her. Champion of free minds and markets, she helped topple the welfare state and make the world safer for capitalism"'' [http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

==Career prior to 1979==

The predominant influence in Lady Thatcher's early life was her father, [[Alfred Roberts]]. Roberts, the owner of Alf's Mini Mart, was a grocer by occupation who was active in local politics. Years later, Lady Thatcher continued to acknowledge his formative influence on her (for example, in the second volume of her memoirs, ''The Path to Power'').

Lady Thatcher attended Somerville College, [[Oxford University|Oxford]], where she read chemistry and became chairman of the university Conservative association. After graduating, she worked for a time as a research chemist before qualifying as a barrister and practicing as a [[tax]] lawyer, an indication of her interest in financial matters. In this time period, it was uncommon in Britain for a female from an ordinary middle-class background to go to a top-class university and then to pursue a career in the male-dominated and somewhat elitist world of the Bar.

Lady Thatcher married [[Denis Thatcher]], a successful businessman whom she met at a Conservative Party meeting. They had 2 children, twins [[Mark Thatcher|Mark]] and [[Carol Thatcher|Carol]].

Under the troubled Conservative premiership of [[Edward Heath]] (1970-1974), Thatcher served as Secretary of State for Education during which time her most noted achievement was the withdrawal of a daily milk ration to primary age schoolchildren earning her the nickname Milk-Snatcher. After the Conservatives were defeated in the elections of February and October 1974, Thatcher challenged the more liberal Heath for the leadership of the party. When she went into Heath's office to tell him her decision, he did not even bother to look up. "You'll lose," he said. "Good day to you." [http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

Though at the time she was a relatively untested figure (and many in the party were wary of choosing a woman leader), she defeated both Heath and other male rivals in the contest in February 1975. Heath subsequently became a prominent personal and political adversary of Thatcher, drawing accusations of bitterness.

In the 1970s, Lady Thatcher's strongly conservative, pro-capitalist stance resonated with a new mood among the British electorate, many of whom had become dissatisfied with the post-[[World War II]] liberal consensus (the "post-war consensus", sometimes also called "Butskellism"). Thatcher and the Conservatives offered a clear alternative vision for an increasingly aspirational society. The Conservative politician Sir [[Keith Joseph]] was the primary intellectual force behind these theories that later became known as ''Thatcherism''. They were strongly influenced by the pro-market intellectuals [[Friedrich von Hayek]] and [[Milton Friedman]].

==Prime Ministership==

Lady Thatcher's chief goals in power were to reverse Britain's economic decline and to reduce the range of the state as well as standing taller on the international stage. She found a soul-mate in Ronald Reagan, elected in 1980 but whom she had met in 1975. Thatcher started by increasing interest rates to drive down inflation which hit the manufacturing sector and caused unemployment to rise sharply and there was a deep recession in the early 1980s blamed on her Government's economic policy. This led to her famous quote: 'the lady is not for turning', and she refused a policy u-turn and, despite an open letter from 364 economists, taxes were increased in the middle of a recession. Although unemployment did not reach 3 million till 1982, a year earlier British cities burned as thousands took to the streets to demonstrate their frustration. Inflation was going down though, allowing interest rates to fall, but as the economy started to recover Argentina invaded the Falklands, the first (and unprovoked) invasion of sovereign British territory by a foreign government since the Second World War. This invasion was preceded by her withdrawal of military defense from the islands.

Thatcher immediately declared her resolve to recapture the islands in line with the wishes of their inhabitants, and dispatched a naval task force to that end. With help from President [[Augusto Pinochet|Pinochet]] of [[Chile]] and, more covertly, [[Ronald Reagan]], the British forces swiftly recaptured the islands. The resulting wave of patriotic enthusiasm as well as her right to buy policy for council homes, and a uselessly divided opposition, meant she got a landslide victory in the June 1983 general election.

The big theme of Lady Thatcher's second term was reducing the power of the trade unions with a series of measures that a number of unions reacted to with industrial action. In particular the National Union of Mineworkers led by Arthur Scargill. The Tories had prepared for the strike by building up coal reserves and the deploying well paid police units fitted out with new riot gear brought in after the disturbances of 1981 who taunted the strikers by waving fivers at them. The miners responded with bricks and very ugly scenes developed on picket lines that split the country. Scargill's failure to hold a ballot for the strike undermined public support and the striker's chant of 'vote with your feet' calling miners to join the strike was turned on them as more and more returned to work over the year of the strike.

In the middle of the strike, on October 12 1984, the IRA detonated a bomb during the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. Thatcher escaped injury but five people died in the attack and Margaret Tebbit was left paralyzed, the conference went on as normal. Thatcher's political and economic philosophy emphasized free markets and since gaining power she had experimented in selling off nationalized industries starting with the National Freight company, most of the large utilities followed. Thatcher supported Reagan's policies of deterrence against the Soviets and US forces stationed nuclear cruise missiles at British bases, arousing mass protests by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. She supported the US bombing raid on [[Libya]] from bases in Britain in 1986 and, by refusing to side with a European consortium, in backing a the Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation of the USA over a British company Westland. Michael Heseltine resigned in protest at her style of leadership over this. In 1984 she visited [[China]] and signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration with [[Deng Xiaoping]] that agreed the handover of [[Hong Kong]] in 1997. Also that year at the Fontainebleau summit Thatcher argued that the UK paid far more to the EEC than it received in spending and negotiated a budget rebate using the argument that ‘We want our money back’. In 1985, the University of Oxford voted to refuse her an honorary degree in protest against her cuts in funding for education.

In 1987, Lady Thatcher became the first Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to win three consecutive general elections since [[Lord Liverpool]] (1812-1827). In the late 1980's Thatcher began to be concerned by environmental policy and in 1988 she made a major speech accepting the problems of global warming, ozone depletion and acid rain. More memorably, at Bruges, she made a speech in which she outlined her opposition to proposals from the European Communities for a federal structure and increasing centralization of decision-making believing that the role of the EC should be limited to ensuring free trade and effective competition. She was specifically against Economic and Monetary Union, through which a single currency would replace national currencies, and for which the EC was making preparations. In 1989 the economy high interest rates were imposed to stop an unsustainable boom. At the Madrid European summit, Nigel Lawson and Geoffrey Howe forced Thatcher to agree the circumstances in which she would join the Exchange Rate Mechanism, a preparation for monetary union. She took revenge on both by demoting Howe and listening more to her adviser Sir Alan Walters on economic matters. Lawson resigned that October and in November, a so-called ‘stalking horse candidate Sir Anthony Meyer challenged Thatcher for the leadership of the Conservative Party. In 1989 a new system of local government finance to replace the rates was introduced for Scotland in 1989 and for England and Wales in 1990. Called the 'Community Charge' but known as the Poll Tax was applied at the same amount to every individual resident with only limited discounts. Widespread opposition culminated in a huge demonstration in London on March 31 that turned into the largest outbreak of public disorder central London had seen in a century which was followed by millions of people refusing to pay the tax. This along with her government's handling of the economy, her perceived arrogance and a general feeling that she would never retire, made her politically vulnerable. Geoffrey Howe resigned on November 1 and condemned Thatcher's policy on the European Communities then openly invited 'others to consider their own response'. Michael Heseltine's response was a leadership challenge which resulted in a narrow failure, by two votes, for Thatcher to win automatic re-election. After consulting with cabinet colleagues she found a vast majority thought that she could not win on the second ballot. On November 22nd Thatcher announced that she would not be a candidate in the second ballot. She supported John Major as her successor, and retired from Parliament at the 1992 election.

After leaving the House of Commons, Thatcher was created '''Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven''' and entered the House of Lords, an entirely normal and expected honor for a British ex-Prime Minister. More controversially, Denis Thatcher was given a Baronetcy, which ensured that their son, Mark, would inherit the title of "Sir Mark".

Leaving power reportedly depressed Lady Thatcher, and aside from writing her memoirs, her role as 'backseat driver' in the Major administration was not well received. She publicly endorsed [[William Hague]] against [[Kenneth Clarke]] for the Conservative leadership in 1997. She made many speaking engagements around the world, including very vocal support of former dictator General [[Augusto Pinochet]] that the new Labour administration extradited to Spain on charges of torturing political opponents. In March 2002 she suffered a mild stroke, and she was told by her doctors to make no more public speeches on health grounds, nevertheless she insisted on attending the funeral of her old friend and political soul-mate, Ronald Reagan, in 2004 against her Doctor's orders. Baroness Thatcher is still seen at Tory party gatherings and has endorsed party leaders such as William Hague and Iain Duncan Smith.

[http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html][http://www.fandmpublications.co.uk/pages/margaretbiography1.htm][http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp]

==Quick Facts==
Born: 13 October 1925 in Grantham, Lincolnshire

First entered Parliament: 8 October 1959

Became leader of the [[Conservative]] Party in February 1975

Elected as Prime Minister in May 1979

Age she became PM: 53 years, 204 days

Maiden Speech: 5 February 1960 during the second reading of her Private Member's Bill

Total time as PM: 11 years, 209 days

Nickname: "The Iron Lady"

Education: Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School and Somerville College, Oxford

Before Thatcher became an MP, she worked as a research chemist for British Xylonite and then Lyons & Company, where she helped develop methods for preserving ice cream.

Family: Margaret Thatcher is the younger of two daughters. She often gave her father as an example of an outstanding citizen. She married [[Sir Denis Thatcher]], and has one son and one daughter.

Interests: Music, art, opera and reading.

[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp][http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

==Husband==
Denis Thatcher, ''as the first male PM spouse in history'', was always likely to be the center of media attention - and he didn't disappoint.

When she met him, Baroness Thatcher remarked that "it was clear to me at once that Denis was an exceptional man - he had a certain style and dash." Described as a man of integrity, humor and common sense, he had a strong business background and fought with the Royal Artillery during the war.

It was said that Denis was in 'the Thatcher party not the Tory party'. He once famously remarked, recalling the words of Mark Twain, that: "it's better to keep my mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt."

When he died in 2003 his wife paid tribute to the man she loved by saying: "Being PM is a lonely job. In a sense, it ought to be - you cannot lead from a crowd. But with Denis there I was never alone. What a man. What a husband. What a friend."

[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp][http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

== "Thatcherisms" ==

*"The lady is not for turning"

*"There is no such thing as society"

*"I like Mr Gorbachev, we can do business together."

*"I have made it quite clear that a unified Ireland was one solution that is out. A second solution was a confederation of two states. That is out. A third solution was joint authority. That is out-that is a derogation of sovereignty."

*"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."

*"If you lead a country like Britain, a strong country, a country which has taken a lead in world affairs in good times and in bad, a country that is always reliable, then you have to have a touch of iron about you."

*"I do not know anyone who has got to the top without hard work. That is the recipe. It will not always get you to the top, but should get you pretty near."

*"What Britain needs is an iron lady."

*"Unless we change our ways and our direction, our greatness as a nation will soon be a footnote in the history books, a distant memory of an offshore island, lost in the mists of time like Camelot, remembered kindly for its noble past."

*"I just owe almost everything to my father [and] it's passionately interesting for me that the things that I learned in a small town, in a very modest home, are just the things that I believe have won the election."

*"Democratic nations must try to find ways to starve the terrorist and the hijacker of the oxygen of publicity on which they depend." [http://www.quoteworld.org/authors/margaret-thatcher/1/]

*"It will be years before a woman either leads the Conservative Party or becomes Prime Minister. I don't see it happening in my time" (in 1970)[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp]

==External Links==
* [http://www.margaretthatcher.org/ Margaret Thatcher Foundation]

SIGNED - an unhappy [[User:DrCameron|DrCameron]] 04:46, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

==Name==

Could somebody please correct Mrs Thatcher's name at the beginning of this article (as it can't be edited)? Her correct name is "Margaret Hilda Thatcher", not "Margaret Hilda Roberts Thatcher". British women don't normally use their maiden names before their married surnames. -- [[User:Emmeline|Emmeline]]

:I have made this point before. The official justification for the form of name is that it corresponds with American practice. As I have argued, however, this logic would imply that (for example) Mao Zedong should become "Zedong Mao", and that a South American Conservapedia should turn Margaret Thatcher into "Margaret Roberts de Thatcher", which seems very strange to me. Dumezil22 20:14, 11 May 2007 (BST)

==Alf's Mini Mart==

The reference to Alf's Mini Mart is an obscure joke based on a British soap opera. Dumezil22 20:10, 11 May 2007 (BST)

Thanks a lot for pointing this out. We've had some problems with people inserting British television jokes as facts and rely on people like you to point this out. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 15:18, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

==Terminology==

I note the comments that US conventions are to be used, but hope this is taken in the right spirit: Where an honour is bestowed on a person in the UK, it is usual to refer to their actions using the title that was appropriate at the time as opposed to their title later on in life. So references to actions during Thatcher's prime ministership should really call her "Mrs" as opposed to "Lady". [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 08:53, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

== Education ==

"Social mobility decreased, whilst '''eduction''' and the National Health Service...".
The writer appears to have spelt education incorrectly.
([[User:BRFD|BRFD]] 21:28, 30 December 2007 (EST))
::And you cannot be bothered to simply correct it because...? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 21:42, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:::Because it says at the top of this very page that editing of the article is locked ([[User:BRFD|BRFD]] 22:14, 30 December 2007 (EST))
::::Unlocked. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 22:26, 30 December 2007 (EST)

:::::Thank you. ([[User:BRFD|BRFD]] 22:35, 30 December 2007 (EST))

Margaret Thatcher

2007-12-31T03:33:38Z

BRFD: eduction to education

{{Prime Minister
|image=Margaret_Thatcher.jpg
|seq=71
|term_start=May 4 1979
|term_end=November 28 1990
|party=Conservative Party
|previous=James Callaghan
|next=John Major
|birth_date=October 13 1925
|birth_place=Grantham
|spouse=[[Denis Thatcher|Sir Denis Thatcher, Bt]]
|religion=[[Methodist]]
}}

'''Margaret Hilda Roberts Thatcher''', later Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven (born October 13, 1925), became the leader of the Conservative Party in [[The United Kingdom]] in February 1975. She was opposed to socialism and out-of-control union power which had brought down the previous Conservative government in 1974. She ran on these issues which resulted in her being chosen as Prime Minister in May 1979 with the Conservatives sweeping into power.

Lady Thatcher sold many of the nationalized industries back to private investors and made tax cuts. Thatcher stood up against the powerful Labour Party unions, thus encouraging the British coal and newspaper industries by breaking the power of the unions who had a stranglehold over these industries. Due to her strong standards and her leadership style, she became known as the "Iron Lady," a term originally coined as an insult by the communist [[Soviet Union]], but one she adopted with glee. Another famous statement of hers is that "the lady is not for turning" Thatcher was always a strong supporter of the the United States, and was a good friend of President [[Ronald Reagan]], uniting with him in actions against the Communists.

She led Britain to victory against [[Argentina]] in a 1982 war over ownership of the [[Falkland Islands]], and though the United States was allied with both countries, and did initially try to broker a negotiated settlement. When that failed, the U.S. supported Britain and not Argentina with vital intelligence information. There is still debate as to the extent to which the war was contrived, as victory in a conflict would have suited both the Argentine [[Junta]] and the then unpopular Thatcher. The conflict led to a strong friendship with the Chilean military, [[Pinochet]].

Thatcher won three elections between 1979 and decision not to stand for a second party vote in 1990, when it became apparent she wouldn't have the needed votes. Margaret Thatcher was the longest serving Prime Minister in more than 150 years, and alongside Winston Churchill, many consider her to be one of the two most important British political leaders of the twentieth century.

Her regime was controversial however. Social mobility decreased, whilst education and the [[National Health Service]] suffered a number of cuts. [[Unemployment]] rose to unprecedented levels, exceeding one in ten, and the method of counting was regularly altered to lower the published figures. Many of her actions in the north of England seemed petulant, infamously the sudden closure of much of the mining industry, whilst refusing to interfere with the consequences.

She fundamentally moved the British economy from an industrialist model, to a financial, speculative economy. This shift also served to undermine trade union power with fewer people in stable long term employment and instead in the service industry.

[[Time Magazine]] wrote of Lady Thatcher: ''"She was the catalyst who set in motion a series of interconnected events that gave a revolutionary twist to the century's last two decades and helped mankind end the millennium on a note of hope and confidence. The triumph of capitalism, the almost universal acceptance of the market as indispensable to prosperity, the collapse of Soviet imperialism, the downsizing of the state on nearly every continent and in almost every country in the world — Margaret Thatcher played a part in all those transformations, and it is not easy to see how any would have occurred without her. [[Champion]] of free minds and markets, she helped topple the welfare state and make the world safer for capitalism"'' [http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

==Career prior to 1979==

The predominant influence in Lady Thatcher's early life was her father, [[Alfred Roberts]]. Roberts was a grocer by occupation who was active in local politics. Years later, Lady Thatcher continued to acknowledge his formative influence on her (for example, in the second volume of her memoirs, ''The Path to Power'').

Lady Thatcher attended Somerville College, [[Oxford University|Oxford]], where she read chemistry and became chairman of the university Conservative association. After graduating, she worked for a time as a research chemist before qualifying as a barrister and practicing as a [[tax]] lawyer, an indication of her interest in financial matters. In this time period, it was uncommon in Britain for a female from an ordinary middle-class background to go to a top-class university and then to pursue a career in the male-dominated and somewhat elitist world of the Bar.

Lady Thatcher married [[Denis Thatcher]], a successful businessman whom she met at a Conservative Party meeting. They had 2 children, twins [[Mark Thatcher|Mark]] and [[Carol Thatcher|Carol]].

Under the troubled Conservative premiership of [[Edward Heath]] (1970-1974), Thatcher served as Secretary of State for Education during which time her most noted achievement was the withdrawal of a daily milk ration to primary age schoolchildren earning her the nickname Milk-Snatcher. After the Conservatives were defeated in the elections of February and October 1974, Thatcher challenged the more liberal Heath for the leadership of the party. When she went into Heath's office to tell him her decision, he did not even bother to look up. "You'll lose," he said. "Good day to you." [http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

Though at the time she was a relatively untested figure (and many in the party were wary of choosing a woman leader), she defeated both Heath and other male rivals in the contest in February 1975. Heath subsequently became a prominent personal and political adversary of Thatcher, drawing accusations of bitterness.

In the 1970s, Lady Thatcher's strongly conservative, pro-capitalist stance resonated with a new mood among the British electorate, many of whom had become dissatisfied with the post-[[World War II]] liberal consensus (the "post-war consensus", sometimes also called "Butskellism"). Thatcher and the Conservatives offered a clear alternative vision for an increasingly aspirational society. The Conservative politician Sir [[Keith Joseph]] was the primary intellectual force behind these theories that later became known as ''Thatcherism''. They were strongly influenced by the pro-market intellectuals [[Friedrich von Hayek]] and [[Milton Friedman]].
[[Image:503px-Thatcher-loc.jpg|right|thumb|Margaret Thatcher as Leader of the Opposition in 1975.]]
==Prime Ministership==

Lady Thatcher's chief goals in power were to reverse Britain's economic decline and to reduce the range of the state as well as standing taller on the international stage. She found a soul-mate in Ronald Reagan, elected in 1980 but whom she had met in 1975. Thatcher started by increasing interest rates to drive down inflation which hit the manufacturing sector and caused unemployment to rise sharply and there was a deep recession in the early 1980s blamed on her Government's economic policy. This led to her famous quote: 'the lady is not for turning', and she refused a policy u-turn and, despite an open letter from 364 economists, taxes were increased in the middle of a recession. Although unemployment did not reach 3 million till 1982, a year earlier British cities burned as thousands took to the streets to demonstrate their frustration. Inflation was going down though, allowing interest rates to fall, but as the economy started to recover Argentina invaded the Falklands, the first (and unprovoked) invasion of sovereign British territory by a foreign government since the Second World War. This invasion was preceded by her withdrawal of military defense from the islands.

Thatcher immediately declared her resolve to recapture the islands in line with the wishes of their inhabitants, and dispatched a naval task force to that end. With help from President [[Augusto Pinochet|Pinochet]] of [[Chile]] and, more covertly, [[Ronald Reagan]], the British forces swiftly recaptured the islands. The resulting wave of patriotic enthusiasm as well as her right to buy policy for council homes, and a uselessly divided opposition, meant she got a landslide victory in the June 1983 general election.

The big theme of Lady Thatcher's second term was reducing the power of the trade unions with a series of measures that a number of unions reacted to with industrial action. In particular the National Union of Mineworkers led by Arthur Scargill. The Tories had prepared for the strike by building up coal reserves and the deploying well paid police units fitted out with new riot gear brought in after the disturbances of 1981 who taunted the strikers by waving fivers at them. The miners responded with bricks and very ugly scenes developed on picket lines that split the country. Scargill's failure to hold a ballot for the strike undermined public support and the striker's chant of 'vote with your feet' calling miners to join the strike was turned on them as more and more returned to work over the year of the strike.

In the middle of the strike, on October 12 1984, the IRA detonated a bomb during the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. Thatcher escaped injury but five people died in the attack and Margaret Tebbit was left paralyzed, the conference went on as normal. Thatcher's political and economic philosophy emphasized free markets and since gaining power she had experimented in selling off nationalized industries starting with the National Freight company, most of the large utilities followed. Thatcher supported Reagan's policies of deterrence against the Soviets and US forces stationed nuclear cruise missiles at British bases, arousing mass protests by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. She supported the US bombing raid on [[Libya]] from bases in Britain in 1986 and, by refusing to side with a European consortium, in backing a the Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation of the USA over a British company Westland. Michael Heseltine resigned in protest at her style of leadership over this. In 1984 she visited [[China]] and signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration with [[Deng Xiaoping]] that agreed the handover of [[Hong Kong]] in 1997. Also that year at the Fontainebleau summit Thatcher argued that the UK paid far more to the EEC than it received in spending and negotiated a budget rebate using the argument that ‘We want our money back’. In 1985, the University of Oxford voted to refuse her an honorary degree in protest against her cuts in funding for education.

In 1987, Lady Thatcher became the first Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to win three consecutive general elections since [[Lord Liverpool]] (1812-1827). In the late 1980's Thatcher began to be concerned by environmental policy and in 1988 she made a major speech accepting the problems of global warming, ozone depletion and acid rain. More memorably, at Bruges, she made a speech in which she outlined her opposition to proposals from the European Communities for a federal structure and increasing centralization of decision-making believing that the role of the EC should be limited to ensuring free trade and effective competition. She was specifically against Economic and Monetary Union, through which a single currency would replace national currencies, and for which the EC was making preparations. In 1989 the economy high interest rates were imposed to stop an unsustainable boom. At the Madrid European summit, Nigel Lawson and Geoffrey Howe forced Thatcher to agree the circumstances in which she would join the Exchange Rate Mechanism, a preparation for monetary union. She took revenge on both by demoting Howe and listening more to her adviser Sir Alan Walters on economic matters. Lawson resigned that October and in November, a so-called ‘stalking horse candidate Sir Anthony Meyer challenged Thatcher for the leadership of the Conservative Party. In 1989 a new system of local government finance to replace the rates was introduced for Scotland in 1989 and for England and Wales in 1990. Called the 'Community Charge' but known as the Poll Tax was applied at the same amount to every individual resident with only limited discounts. Widespread opposition culminated in a huge demonstration in London on March 31 that turned into the largest outbreak of public disorder central London had seen in a century which was followed by millions of people refusing to pay the tax. This along with her government's handling of the economy, her perceived arrogance and a general feeling that she would never retire, made her politically vulnerable. Geoffrey Howe resigned on November 1 and condemned Thatcher's policy on the European Communities then openly invited 'others to consider their own response'. Michael Heseltine's response was a leadership challenge which resulted in a narrow failure, by two votes, for Thatcher to win automatic re-election. After consulting with cabinet colleagues she found a vast majority thought that she could not win on the second ballot. On November 22nd Thatcher announced that she would not be a candidate in the second ballot. She supported John Major as her successor, and retired from Parliament at the 1992 election.

After leaving the House of Commons, Thatcher was created '''Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven''' and entered the House of Lords, an entirely normal and expected honor for a British ex-Prime Minister. More controversially, Denis Thatcher was given a Baronetcy, which ensured that their son, Mark, would inherit the title of "Sir Mark".

Leaving power reportedly depressed Lady Thatcher, and aside from writing her memoirs, her role as 'backseat driver' in the Major administration was not well received. She publicly endorsed [[William Hague]] against [[Kenneth Clarke]] for the Conservative leadership in 1997. She made many speaking engagements around the world, including very vocal support of former dictator General [[Augusto Pinochet]] that the new Labour administration extradited to Spain on charges of torturing political opponents. In March 2002 she suffered a mild stroke, and she was told by her doctors to make no more public speeches on health grounds, nevertheless she insisted on attending the funeral of her old friend and political soul-mate, Ronald Reagan, in 2004 against her Doctor's orders. Baroness Thatcher is still seen at Tory party gatherings and has endorsed party leaders such as William Hague and Iain Duncan Smith.

[http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html][http://www.fandmpublications.co.uk/pages/margaretbiography1.htm][http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp]

==Quick Facts==
Born: 13 October 1925 in Grantham, Lincolnshire

First entered Parliament: 8 October 1959

Became leader of the [[Conservative]] Party in February 1975

Elected as Prime Minister in May 1979

Age she became PM: 53 years, 204 days

Maiden Speech: 5 February 1960 during the second reading of her Private Member's Bill

Total time as PM: 11 years, 209 days

Nickname: "The Iron Lady"

Education: Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School and Somerville College, Oxford

Before Thatcher became an MP, she worked as a research chemist for British Xylonite and then Lyons & Company, where she helped develop methods for preserving ice cream.

Family: Margaret Thatcher is the younger of two daughters. She often gave her father as an example of an outstanding citizen. She married [[Sir Denis Thatcher]], and has one son and one daughter.

Interests: Music, art, opera and reading.

[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp][http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

==Husband==
Denis Thatcher, ''as the first male PM spouse in history'', was always likely to be the center of media attention - and he didn't disappoint.

When she met him, Baroness Thatcher remarked that "it was clear to me at once that Denis was an exceptional man - he had a certain style and dash." Described as a man of integrity, humor and common sense, he had a strong business background and fought with the Royal Artillery during the war.

It was said that Denis was in 'the Thatcher party not the Tory party'. He once famously remarked, recalling the words of Mark Twain, that: "it's better to keep my mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt."

When he died in 2003 his wife paid tribute to the man she loved by saying: "Being PM is a lonely job. In a sense, it ought to be - you cannot lead from a crowd. But with Denis there I was never alone. What a man. What a husband. What a friend."

[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp][http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

== "Thatcherisms" ==

*"I like Mr Gorbachev, we can do business together."

*"The lady is not for turning"

*"I have made it quite clear that a unified Ireland was one solution that is out. A second solution was a confederation of two states. That is out. A third solution was joint authority. That is out-that is a derogation of sovereignty."

*"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."

*"If you lead a country like Britain, a strong country, a country which has taken a lead in world affairs in good times and in bad, a country that is always reliable, then you have to have a touch of iron about you."

*"I do not know anyone who has got to the top without hard work. That is the recipe. It will not always get you to the top, but should get you pretty near."

*"There is no such thing as society."

*"What Britain needs is an iron lady."

*"Unless we change our ways and our direction, our greatness as a nation will soon be a footnote in the history books, a distant memory of an offshore island, lost in the mists of time like Camelot, remembered kindly for its noble past."

*"I just owe almost everything to my father [and] it's passionately interesting for me that the things that I learned in a small town, in a very modest home, are just the things that I believe have won the election."

*"Democratic nations must try to find ways to starve the terrorist and the hijacker of the oxygen of publicity on which they depend." [http://www.quoteworld.org/authors/margaret-thatcher/1/]

*"It will be years before a woman either leads the Conservative Party or becomes Prime Minister. I don't see it happening in my time" (in 1970)[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp]

== See also ==

*[[Conservative Links]]

==External Links==
* [http://www.margaretthatcher.org/ Margaret Thatcher Foundation]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Thatcher, Margaret}}

[[Category:United Kingdom Prime Ministers]]

Talk:Margaret Thatcher

2007-12-31T03:15:10Z

BRFD: /* Education */

Talk:Margaret Thatcher

2007-12-31T03:14:18Z

BRFD: /* Education */

{{protect|TK}}

''Thatcher won elections as Prime Minister from 1979-1990, ''however''', prior to her politcal career she performed in adult movies under the name of "Margaret Snatcher".'''''' Next to Winston Churchill many consider Thatcher to be the most important British political leader of the twentieth century.''

Goodness! Doesn't anyone do any checking?

--[[User:TK|TK]] 19:39, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
:You just did! Thanks. [[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 19:57, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

TK - I am confused as to why you have reverted my expansion of this article - whilst a firm supporter of most of Mrs Thatcher's reforms I do not feel an entry that does not mention the controversy caused in parts of the UK or the manner of her departure can be considered encyclopedic, since so much current British policy and policy in other countries with Thatcherite governments is still inspired by the reactions to the more unpopular policies of her final term of office? [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 07:57, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:Agreed; there was nothing there I'd class as 'editorial.' I've restored your material. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 08:00, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

*Material was reverted back, and edited again. You seem at odds with the Sysop, Aschlafly, and his instructions to me. --[[User:TK|TK]] 20:31, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

=="Alcoholism"==
Just to clarify - I have mentioned her alcoholism whilst in office not out of prurience, but because it has a direct bearing on public perceptions of her in her final term. Her drink problem whilst in office is a matter of public record and I've cited reputable news sources as such. The citation to the left-wing "Class War" party is included not because I support them in any way but to illustrate the unusually high degree of polarisation she caused - no other Conservative leader, including Bush in the US, appears to have generated such hatred, as opposed to dislike and disagreement, from left wingers.[[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 08:26, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

*I received this response from the Sysop, Andrew: "So edit them, please. That's what wiki software is for. If you encounter a locked page, which I doubt for Margaret Thatcher, then the talk page is the appropriate place for your comments. '''Claims of alcoholism appear like gossip to me, by the way, which would be against our rules"'''--Aschlafly 20:14, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

::I have not reverted TK's deletion of my edit on her alleged alcoholism but I disagree that it's gossip. Whether or not it was true, the fact that reputable news sources were ''claiming'' that she was an alcoholic (examples at [http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=273&id=317702002], [http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,11381,901553,00.html]) had a direct bearing on her sudden drop in support in her third term and the Conservative Party's removing her as leader, which in turn had major consequences for conservative politics worldwide. I feel that an article on Thatcher that does not mention her forced removal from office is like an article on Nixon or Clinton that failed to mention impeachment.

::I am confused at TK's allegation that I "cited Wikipedia as a source" in this article - my edit contained three citations, one to the BBC, one to the ''Guardian'' newspaper and one to a left wing site, intended to illustrate the type of left-wing opposition to Thatcher and clearly marked as such. I also would like to point out to TK that I am not a 'disgruntled Scottish liberal' as he implies in his edit summaries - while I grew up in Norfolk, about as far from Scotland as it is possible to be in the UK, I now live and work in the US, and have never been 'a liberal' in the US sense of the word. In the British, libertarian sense of the word, then yes, I am a liberal but so I would guess are 90% of contributors here.[[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 06:51, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

*Tracy, although I might have mistook you for a Scottish liberal, I wasn't confusing your edits with those, in many places, by others...citing Wikipedia. Sorry if my posting of Andrew Schlafly's note about Wikipedia was taken as aimed at you. It certainly was not. I am however researching several sources to vet the alcoholism deal. Scotsman.com isn't actually what one would consider mainstream media, such as the London Times, is it? If you will email me, I can give you my IM and perhaps you could enlighten me more on this....sound fair? Please understand that a drink or five isn't exactly noteworthy where it concerns politicians, anywhere in the world, and I believe Sir Winston and President Roosevelt might have out-drank Lady Thatcher 3 to 1. and encyclopedia's the world over haven't deemed it germain to include in their pieces on them, other than a side-note. I cannot find anything concrete, from a reputable source that claims the main reason she was ousted was drinking. Thanks, my name is Terry, btw.......... --[[User:TK|TK]] 07:13, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Hi Tracy. I've looked at your two quotes above and neither of them uses the word "alcoholism", so - at least from the two sources you quote above - that would appear to be (shall we say) an over interpretation on your part. Additionally I'm not sure that I'd regard either "The Scotsman" or "The Guardian" as particularly neutral sources as far as Mrs thatcher is concerned anyway. Finally, in the light of her many accomplishments such as winning the miner's strike, winning the Falklands war, reducing the power of the trades unions, giving people the right to own their own council houses etc etc, an attempt to give significant space to an unfounded allegation that she was an alcoholic simply looks like an attempt to damage her reputation. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 16:06, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

She certainly isn't an alcoholic by clinical standards, but the memoirs of her colleagues do consistently paint a picture of her as a heavy drinker. In contrast to Winston Churchill it never got to the stage where it caused her to become incapable of performing her public functions, so I don't think it merits inclusion in a short encyclopaedia entry. It might be worth noting in a detailed account of her decline and fall as a symptom of her increasing political isolation.--[[User:Jalapeno|Jalapeno]] 02:54, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

== Wikipedia Citations/Sourcing ==

Since the Conservapedia is billed as an alternative to Wikipedia, which is deemed by the Founders as culturally, religiously and politically biased, why in God's name are editors using information from that source to substantiate their information/edits here?

Many of us start from the premise Wikipedia is a suspect source. Please find alternative source information, otherwise there isn't really a point to this "alternative" is there? I am seeing editing here that uses citations from the same author's work at Wikipedia, or quoting material not properly sourced on Wikipedia. That simply isn't an acceptable practice, and is intellectually dishonest.

--TK 19:29, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

*'''You're right. Wikipedia is NOT an acceptable source or authority. Please edit the offending pages and alert the contributors. The mistakes could have been innocent, of course.--Aschlafly 19:32, 15 March 2007 (EDT)'''

== AustinM ==

Is there some reason that you failed to explain your wholesale removal of material here? When editing, removing, one is expected to leave notes. --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:11, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:I agree - he has also deleted the entire entry for [[John Major]], which I have reverted. [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 12:27, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
::suspected vandalism and spoof articles. I did search for references to alcoholism for thatcher and could not find any which were not from scurrilous left wing journals. As a matter of course I rv all edits by the user. I will ban if such behaviour continues. --[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 13:35, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:::AustinM - I've provided 2 citations from major & reputable UK newspapers (''The Scotsman'' and ''The Guardian'') as examples. As I posted above when originally adding this paragraph it does ''not'' allege that Thatcher was an alcoholic but that mainstream UK news media were ''saying'' she was which had a direct bearing on the Conservative Party's decision to remove her from office. In light of your remarks about my 'vandalism', I see that you have replaced my lengthy entry on [[John Major]] - one of the longest serving Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century - with the single line "He achieved very little". [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 15:01, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:*'''Tracy''', read above and edit in the caption where you are responded to, please? :p The Scotsman is judged NOT to be mainstream media, and the Sysadmin, has ruled it it gossip.---- '''AUSTIN''': Please provide a reason for your removal of the paragraphs, pertient to Thatcher, that you removed, as requested, or I will revert it back. You are a Sysop...please do try to communicate!

I plan to leave this article well alone as I have no intention of starting a Wikipedia style reversion war. Austin, I have replied to you three times, on your talk page, my talk page and [[talk:John Major]]. I also wonder how ''The Scotsman'' - the largest circulation non-tabloid newspaper in the country - can possibly be 'non mainstream'? Terry as per your request above (sorry I have only just noticed), I can be contacted via email, the address on here should be valid, however in light of the fact that every single change I have made to date appears to be being reverted I think it's unlikely I will be staying here! [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 19:20, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:*Tracy, I shall look for the email. Takes some getting used to, this place, and I at least, am interested in learning about this Thatcher information. I too have had the experience you mention, these syops here just will not communicate at all, nor explain what they do. Austin removed several paragraphs I added about Thatcher, not even leaving a note as to why. That is really poor judgement, and I have written to (ASchlafly) Andrew Schlafly about such matters, and I suggest you do. Rob is the only sysop who at least bothered to post. --[[User:TK|TK]] 19:36, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

::My apologies everyone my conncetion has been down so I have not been able to respond. I was removing edits by Tracy as I repeatedly tried to find mainstream confirmation of her edits and couldn't. My understanding of Thatchers removal was that it was due to her losing control of her cabinet and being percieved as being out of touch. Alcoholism did not feature. Although her husband liked a drink it has to be said. Please carry on editing and I will be more careful next time. TK you can find a apology from me on your talk pages. regards --[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 11:21, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*'''Austin, all's well that ends well, I say! Thanks for being so dedicated and chasing her down! Send me an email from here, and I will shoot you my IM handle on AIM, as we both seem to be around the late, early, whatever hours, and maybe keeping in touch, we can work better to foil those trolls. Same for you, Conservative & Cracker'''. --[[User:TK|TK]] 15:56, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Is this a joke? ==

"Also Thatcher supported the United States actions against the Communists lead by President Ronald Reagan. "

Ronald Reagan did not lead the Communists! [[User:Myk|Myk]] 19:45, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::AGAINST [[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 19:46, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

* You guys need to go back, and see all the material Austin removed, with no explanation....**rolls eyes**--[[User:TK|TK]] 20:05, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Yes, now that I've had a look at it, one does wonder why all of that was removed. Without, as you say, any explanation. Bit strange. Can we have an explanation? --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 20:16, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

*Doesn't seem as if we are important enough to be responded to, eh? Most of these people are running about like chickens with their heads cut off, without any proper procedures for communication. --[[User:TK|Terry]] 23:10, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:Finally. '''Not like Wikipedia at all'''. --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 23:14, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

So can the stuff be re-inserted? (I'm a bit new at this) The vast majority of the stuff was very good. If there are individual points we disagree with we can discuss them here. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 04:10, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:* Well, I was waiting to hear from Austin...but seems to be hiding under his desk... ;-) --[[User:TK|TK]] 10:58, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

::It looks open for editing to me. --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 11:00, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
::Remember: Citing truth that isn't "conservative enough" = vandalism. Doubleplus goodthink! --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 11:02, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*ROFL! I'll revert it back after my breakfast, or you can, Cracker. ;-) Maybe that will smoke sysop Austin out. :p --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:06, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Stifled the British coal and newspaper industries? ==
I thought this was Conservapedia nbot socialapedia and to claim that her fight against the unions stifled the coal and newspaper industries is nothing more than socialist propaganda. You only have to look at Rupert murdoch tom also realise it was untrue propaganda as, of course, her fight against the unions is what re-invigorated Britain, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 20:26, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:I don't think that anyone - right or left - would deny that she stifled the coal industry and the newspaper unions - these are probably the two most significant achievements of her time in office, even more than privatization! The only thing left and right would differ on on whether it was justified. [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 13:50, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Well, unions in general were a lot less powerful when she left office, and the Coal and Newspaper ones were weakened more than most. So I'd say that "stifled" was relatively moderate language. Words like "crushed" or, perhaps even better, "emasculated" spring eagerly to ones lips. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 15:04, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:*Squeakbox, what was said is, she fought the unions, not the coal and newspaper industry. We had a few vandals who were re-writing the page to better suit their liking, not the facts. As Time magazine said of her "Champion of free minds and markets, she helped topple the welfare state and make the world safer for capitalism." And I say here! bloody here! --[[User:TK|TK]] 15:52, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Dumezil22 ==

Please do NOT make surreptitious tense changes, that are misleading and inaccurate. Among the changes that bothered me the most:

1: You removed "corrupt" from the line about the coal and newspaper unions, and corrupt, indeed, they were.

2: You changed a paragraph to make it appear Thatcher was defeated for another term as PM. She was not. She withdrew from consideration, because on the first vote her opponet came within only a few votes of defeating her, and after she and her advisors decided she would not win on the 2nd ballot. To state she was defeated is inaccurate and misleading. A party willing to allow her to withdraw, rather than suffer humiliation at being voted out, holds someone in very high regard. --[[User:TK|TK]] 18:24, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*This is an American Conservapedia. Her maiden name was Roberts, and thus it is included before her married name. In America. Where this is hosted, that is what we do. If you are unsure, please stop editing, or ask, here, for advice. It is overboard to even suggest she is arguably the best PM in history, great as I believe her to be, and many her accomplishments. Remember Americans have a different style of writing than in the UK, and the rules here state that is the writing and spelling style. I must say you are snide in saying you are "tidying up" and then making major changes, rather than discuss them before like you have been invited to do. --[[User:TK|TK]] 07:46, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:I'm sorry you regard my edits as inappropriate and "snide". Personally, I'm surprised you find them so unacceptable, and your wholesale revert seems unnecessary to me. I don't want to get into a revert war, however. On your specific points:
:1. The British Conservative critique of the unions is not that they were corrupt, but that they were Neanderthal and socialist (I can only recall one instance of union corruption). I'm not sure what your source is here.
:2. I stated that Lady T was never defeated in a general election, and I did not state that she was defeated in the leadership election. I'm surprised that you apparently seem to object to my statement that she was removed from office by her MPs. I would respectfully suggest that you haven't correctly understood the dynamics of the 1990 leadership election or the circumstances of her withdrawal. "If you are unsure, please ask, here, for advice...." ;-)
:3. I'm happy for people to remove Britishisms from my edits. However, to label a Brit with a distinctively American form of name that she has never used in her life seems incorrect. After all, if Conservapedia was ''South'' American, she wouldn't be described as "Margaret Roberts de Thatcher". --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 14:05, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*1, Corrupt is corrupt, no? The Times says they were corrupt.

*2, She was NEVER removed!! Try to get it! She declined to stand for a second vote, when her advisors and she realized she wouldn't have the votes! THAT MEANS SHE WAS NOT REMOVED, But DECLINED TO STAND FOR A VOTE! It is the difference between being sacked, or allowed to resign!

::Being there at the time, it was absolutely clear that although she chose to not stand for re-election as leader in the second poll (and so was not defeated), she was definitely forced out of office against her will. Her initial reaction after the first poll was to carry on - it took a few days for the reality of her position to sink in. By not standing, candidates more to her liking than arch-enemy Heseltine were able to throw their hats into the ring, allowing senior minister John Major to take over. I would advocate using the phrase "forced from office" rather than "defeated" or "allowed to resign" as a more accurate reflection of what actually happened. [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 08:47, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

*3, It means not a wit where someone is from. Here the rules are, use American spelling and customs. Start your own UK Conservapedia, and enforce your customs there. --[[User:TK|TK]] 10:34, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:TK, if you'd like to make your knowledge of the 1990 leadership election even more extensive and formidable, I recommend ''A Conservative Coup'' by Alan Watkins, which also has other information about Lady T. It's by a liberal journalist, but it's quite interesting. I understand that the original title was ''A Conservative Who Was Allowed to Resign by a Party that Held Her in Very High Regard''.

:Well, I've done the maths, and I think my labour here is finished. I won't add any more colour to this article, and I'll leave TK to the defence of Lady T's honour. I'm going to log off now and enjoy having a fag. --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 14:46, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*Pity you couldn't be bothered to follow the source links. It is 10 Downings own website where it explains about her not standing for the second vote. I think users of this wiki will be more inclined to believe that source, wot? And as the book title you recommend says exactly what I have been saying, I guess there isn't a need to look at it, eh? Since she did what she did, it is technically what it is. It would be intellectually dishonest to say they forced her out, since she didn't allow that to happen. Introducing comments that I deleted, because I thought better of making them, letting them remain, only makes you a very small, petty creature. If you think it embarasses me, you are right. If you received some satisfaction from it, I shall pray for you. --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:03, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:You're right, I shouldn't have quoted your deleted comments. While I thought they were unfair, I've removed them now, and I apologise. As to the rest, I enjoy political history, and the events of November 1990 would be interesting to discuss further. They (and their aftermath and consequences) may at some point deserve their own section of this article, when it grows and develops. Let's leave it for the moment, though.

:Maybe a more constructive line of enquiry would be to ask what amendments to the intro you would support making? I still think it's not in a satisfactory state at the moment. One suggestion would be to split it into separate sub-paragraphs. Also, I'm now going to add a skeleton section on Lady T's pre-1979 career, which isn't covered at present. --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 17:16, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*I've asked a few people about this, specificically your question, so give me a day or two. Thanks for addding the section pre-79 info! Good show! --[[User:TK|TK]] 01:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
----

----

I tried to add some useful additions to the pre-1979 section explaining the background to the Brighton bomb but it was removed due to 'lack of citation'. I'm new here - how do you add citations? [[User:Commandment9]]

*Commandment9, after you add whatever it is you want to, copy and paste the URL to wherever it is you sourced your contribution from, say, you read it in the NY Times, you would copy and paste the URL right after your addition, and put brackets [ like this ] around it, and the software will automatically format the link, and number it. Citations are added to back-up what is posted, as opposed to opinion, which has no place in an encyclopedia, generally. See the "Help" link to the left of this page, to learn about how to edit and do all kinds of things. --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 09:26, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Terry thanks for explaining that. I can't do anything on this page as it's now protected but I'll try to remember about citations in future. To whoever removed my paragraph on the 1981 IRA Hunger Strike, I was only trying to put the later references to the Brighton Bomb into context as the bomb was a response by the IRA to what they saw as Margaret Thatcher letting the hunger strikers die. It was of course simply an early example of her not giving in to blackmail.

*If you copy the citation here, I can paste it back into the document. No problem. Glad to have you here, btw, welcome! --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 18:58, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

== Editing ==

How come I was allowed to make changes and then, after putting in a lot of time and work and trying to save the changes, was told the page was locked? This does not make for happy editors. For anyone who is interested, here is my amended version, which I think is clearer in some areas. I hope that a suysop might use this.

[[Image:503px-Thatcher-loc.jpg|right|thumb|Margaret Thatcher as Leader of the Opposition in 1975.]]

'''Margaret Hilda Roberts Thatcher''', later Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven (born October 13, 1925), became the leader of the Conservative Party in [[The United Kingdom]] in February 1975. She was opposed to socialism and out-of-control union power which had brought down the previous Conservative government in 1974. She ran on these issues which resulted in her being chosen as Prime Minister in May 1979 with the Conservatives sweeping into power.

Lady Thatcher sold many of the nationalized industries back to private investors and made tax cuts. Thatcher stood up against the powerful Labour Party unions, thus encouraging the British coal and newspaper industries by breaking the power of the unions who had a stranglehold over these industries. Due to her strong standards and her leadership style, she became known as the "Iron Lady," a term originally coined as an insult by the communist [[Soviet Union]], but one she adopted with glee. Another famous statement of hers is that "the lady is not for turning" Thatcher was always a strong supporter of the the United States, and was a good friend of President [[Ronald Reagan]], uniting with him in actions against the Communists.

She led Britain to victory against [[Argentina]] in a 1982 war over ownership of the [[Falkland Islands]], and though the United States was allied with both countries, and did initially try to broker a negotiated settlement. When that failed, the U.S. supported Britain and not Argentina with vital intelligence information. There is still debate as to the extent to which the war was contrived, as victory in a conflict would have suited both the Argentine [[Junta]] and the then unpopular Thatcher. The conflict led to a strong friendship with the Chilean military, [[Pinochet]].

Thatcher won three elections between 1979 and decision not to stand for a second party vote in 1990, when it became apparent she wouldn't have the needed votes. Margaret Thatcher was the longest serving Prime Minister in more than 150 years, and alongside Winston Churchill, many consider her to be one of the two most important British political leaders of the twentieth century.

Her regime was controversial however. Social mobility decreased, whilst eduction and the [[National Health Service]] suffered a number of cuts. [[Unemployment]] rose to unprecedented levels, exceeding one in ten, and the method of counting was regularly altered to lower the published figures. Many of her actions in the north of England seemed petulant, infamously the sudden closure of much of the mining industry, whilst refusing to interfere with the consequences.

She fundamentally moved the British economy from an industrialist model, to a financial, speculative economy. This shift also served to undermine trade union power with fewer people in stable long term employment and instead in the service industry.

[[Time Magazine]] wrote of Lady Thatcher: ''"She was the catalyst who set in motion a series of interconnected events that gave a revolutionary twist to the century's last two decades and helped mankind end the millennium on a note of hope and confidence. The triumph of capitalism, the almost universal acceptance of the market as indispensable to prosperity, the collapse of Soviet imperialism, the downsizing of the state on nearly every continent and in almost every country in the world — Margaret Thatcher played a part in all those transformations, and it is not easy to see how any would have occurred without her. Champion of free minds and markets, she helped topple the welfare state and make the world safer for capitalism"'' [http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

==Career prior to 1979==

The predominant influence in Lady Thatcher's early life was her father, [[Alfred Roberts]]. Roberts, the owner of Alf's Mini Mart, was a grocer by occupation who was active in local politics. Years later, Lady Thatcher continued to acknowledge his formative influence on her (for example, in the second volume of her memoirs, ''The Path to Power'').

Lady Thatcher attended Somerville College, [[Oxford University|Oxford]], where she read chemistry and became chairman of the university Conservative association. After graduating, she worked for a time as a research chemist before qualifying as a barrister and practicing as a [[tax]] lawyer, an indication of her interest in financial matters. In this time period, it was uncommon in Britain for a female from an ordinary middle-class background to go to a top-class university and then to pursue a career in the male-dominated and somewhat elitist world of the Bar.

Lady Thatcher married [[Denis Thatcher]], a successful businessman whom she met at a Conservative Party meeting. They had 2 children, twins [[Mark Thatcher|Mark]] and [[Carol Thatcher|Carol]].

Under the troubled Conservative premiership of [[Edward Heath]] (1970-1974), Thatcher served as Secretary of State for Education during which time her most noted achievement was the withdrawal of a daily milk ration to primary age schoolchildren earning her the nickname Milk-Snatcher. After the Conservatives were defeated in the elections of February and October 1974, Thatcher challenged the more liberal Heath for the leadership of the party. When she went into Heath's office to tell him her decision, he did not even bother to look up. "You'll lose," he said. "Good day to you." [http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

Though at the time she was a relatively untested figure (and many in the party were wary of choosing a woman leader), she defeated both Heath and other male rivals in the contest in February 1975. Heath subsequently became a prominent personal and political adversary of Thatcher, drawing accusations of bitterness.

In the 1970s, Lady Thatcher's strongly conservative, pro-capitalist stance resonated with a new mood among the British electorate, many of whom had become dissatisfied with the post-[[World War II]] liberal consensus (the "post-war consensus", sometimes also called "Butskellism"). Thatcher and the Conservatives offered a clear alternative vision for an increasingly aspirational society. The Conservative politician Sir [[Keith Joseph]] was the primary intellectual force behind these theories that later became known as ''Thatcherism''. They were strongly influenced by the pro-market intellectuals [[Friedrich von Hayek]] and [[Milton Friedman]].

==Prime Ministership==

Lady Thatcher's chief goals in power were to reverse Britain's economic decline and to reduce the range of the state as well as standing taller on the international stage. She found a soul-mate in Ronald Reagan, elected in 1980 but whom she had met in 1975. Thatcher started by increasing interest rates to drive down inflation which hit the manufacturing sector and caused unemployment to rise sharply and there was a deep recession in the early 1980s blamed on her Government's economic policy. This led to her famous quote: 'the lady is not for turning', and she refused a policy u-turn and, despite an open letter from 364 economists, taxes were increased in the middle of a recession. Although unemployment did not reach 3 million till 1982, a year earlier British cities burned as thousands took to the streets to demonstrate their frustration. Inflation was going down though, allowing interest rates to fall, but as the economy started to recover Argentina invaded the Falklands, the first (and unprovoked) invasion of sovereign British territory by a foreign government since the Second World War. This invasion was preceded by her withdrawal of military defense from the islands.

Thatcher immediately declared her resolve to recapture the islands in line with the wishes of their inhabitants, and dispatched a naval task force to that end. With help from President [[Augusto Pinochet|Pinochet]] of [[Chile]] and, more covertly, [[Ronald Reagan]], the British forces swiftly recaptured the islands. The resulting wave of patriotic enthusiasm as well as her right to buy policy for council homes, and a uselessly divided opposition, meant she got a landslide victory in the June 1983 general election.

The big theme of Lady Thatcher's second term was reducing the power of the trade unions with a series of measures that a number of unions reacted to with industrial action. In particular the National Union of Mineworkers led by Arthur Scargill. The Tories had prepared for the strike by building up coal reserves and the deploying well paid police units fitted out with new riot gear brought in after the disturbances of 1981 who taunted the strikers by waving fivers at them. The miners responded with bricks and very ugly scenes developed on picket lines that split the country. Scargill's failure to hold a ballot for the strike undermined public support and the striker's chant of 'vote with your feet' calling miners to join the strike was turned on them as more and more returned to work over the year of the strike.

In the middle of the strike, on October 12 1984, the IRA detonated a bomb during the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. Thatcher escaped injury but five people died in the attack and Margaret Tebbit was left paralyzed, the conference went on as normal. Thatcher's political and economic philosophy emphasized free markets and since gaining power she had experimented in selling off nationalized industries starting with the National Freight company, most of the large utilities followed. Thatcher supported Reagan's policies of deterrence against the Soviets and US forces stationed nuclear cruise missiles at British bases, arousing mass protests by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. She supported the US bombing raid on [[Libya]] from bases in Britain in 1986 and, by refusing to side with a European consortium, in backing a the Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation of the USA over a British company Westland. Michael Heseltine resigned in protest at her style of leadership over this. In 1984 she visited [[China]] and signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration with [[Deng Xiaoping]] that agreed the handover of [[Hong Kong]] in 1997. Also that year at the Fontainebleau summit Thatcher argued that the UK paid far more to the EEC than it received in spending and negotiated a budget rebate using the argument that ‘We want our money back’. In 1985, the University of Oxford voted to refuse her an honorary degree in protest against her cuts in funding for education.

In 1987, Lady Thatcher became the first Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to win three consecutive general elections since [[Lord Liverpool]] (1812-1827). In the late 1980's Thatcher began to be concerned by environmental policy and in 1988 she made a major speech accepting the problems of global warming, ozone depletion and acid rain. More memorably, at Bruges, she made a speech in which she outlined her opposition to proposals from the European Communities for a federal structure and increasing centralization of decision-making believing that the role of the EC should be limited to ensuring free trade and effective competition. She was specifically against Economic and Monetary Union, through which a single currency would replace national currencies, and for which the EC was making preparations. In 1989 the economy high interest rates were imposed to stop an unsustainable boom. At the Madrid European summit, Nigel Lawson and Geoffrey Howe forced Thatcher to agree the circumstances in which she would join the Exchange Rate Mechanism, a preparation for monetary union. She took revenge on both by demoting Howe and listening more to her adviser Sir Alan Walters on economic matters. Lawson resigned that October and in November, a so-called ‘stalking horse candidate Sir Anthony Meyer challenged Thatcher for the leadership of the Conservative Party. In 1989 a new system of local government finance to replace the rates was introduced for Scotland in 1989 and for England and Wales in 1990. Called the 'Community Charge' but known as the Poll Tax was applied at the same amount to every individual resident with only limited discounts. Widespread opposition culminated in a huge demonstration in London on March 31 that turned into the largest outbreak of public disorder central London had seen in a century which was followed by millions of people refusing to pay the tax. This along with her government's handling of the economy, her perceived arrogance and a general feeling that she would never retire, made her politically vulnerable. Geoffrey Howe resigned on November 1 and condemned Thatcher's policy on the European Communities then openly invited 'others to consider their own response'. Michael Heseltine's response was a leadership challenge which resulted in a narrow failure, by two votes, for Thatcher to win automatic re-election. After consulting with cabinet colleagues she found a vast majority thought that she could not win on the second ballot. On November 22nd Thatcher announced that she would not be a candidate in the second ballot. She supported John Major as her successor, and retired from Parliament at the 1992 election.

After leaving the House of Commons, Thatcher was created '''Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven''' and entered the House of Lords, an entirely normal and expected honor for a British ex-Prime Minister. More controversially, Denis Thatcher was given a Baronetcy, which ensured that their son, Mark, would inherit the title of "Sir Mark".

Leaving power reportedly depressed Lady Thatcher, and aside from writing her memoirs, her role as 'backseat driver' in the Major administration was not well received. She publicly endorsed [[William Hague]] against [[Kenneth Clarke]] for the Conservative leadership in 1997. She made many speaking engagements around the world, including very vocal support of former dictator General [[Augusto Pinochet]] that the new Labour administration extradited to Spain on charges of torturing political opponents. In March 2002 she suffered a mild stroke, and she was told by her doctors to make no more public speeches on health grounds, nevertheless she insisted on attending the funeral of her old friend and political soul-mate, Ronald Reagan, in 2004 against her Doctor's orders. Baroness Thatcher is still seen at Tory party gatherings and has endorsed party leaders such as William Hague and Iain Duncan Smith.

[http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html][http://www.fandmpublications.co.uk/pages/margaretbiography1.htm][http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp]

==Quick Facts==
Born: 13 October 1925 in Grantham, Lincolnshire

First entered Parliament: 8 October 1959

Became leader of the [[Conservative]] Party in February 1975

Elected as Prime Minister in May 1979

Age she became PM: 53 years, 204 days

Maiden Speech: 5 February 1960 during the second reading of her Private Member's Bill

Total time as PM: 11 years, 209 days

Nickname: "The Iron Lady"

Education: Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School and Somerville College, Oxford

Before Thatcher became an MP, she worked as a research chemist for British Xylonite and then Lyons & Company, where she helped develop methods for preserving ice cream.

Family: Margaret Thatcher is the younger of two daughters. She often gave her father as an example of an outstanding citizen. She married [[Sir Denis Thatcher]], and has one son and one daughter.

Interests: Music, art, opera and reading.

[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp][http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

==Husband==
Denis Thatcher, ''as the first male PM spouse in history'', was always likely to be the center of media attention - and he didn't disappoint.

When she met him, Baroness Thatcher remarked that "it was clear to me at once that Denis was an exceptional man - he had a certain style and dash." Described as a man of integrity, humor and common sense, he had a strong business background and fought with the Royal Artillery during the war.

It was said that Denis was in 'the Thatcher party not the Tory party'. He once famously remarked, recalling the words of Mark Twain, that: "it's better to keep my mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt."

When he died in 2003 his wife paid tribute to the man she loved by saying: "Being PM is a lonely job. In a sense, it ought to be - you cannot lead from a crowd. But with Denis there I was never alone. What a man. What a husband. What a friend."

[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp][http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

== "Thatcherisms" ==

*"The lady is not for turning"

*"There is no such thing as society"

*"I like Mr Gorbachev, we can do business together."

*"I have made it quite clear that a unified Ireland was one solution that is out. A second solution was a confederation of two states. That is out. A third solution was joint authority. That is out-that is a derogation of sovereignty."

*"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."

*"If you lead a country like Britain, a strong country, a country which has taken a lead in world affairs in good times and in bad, a country that is always reliable, then you have to have a touch of iron about you."

*"I do not know anyone who has got to the top without hard work. That is the recipe. It will not always get you to the top, but should get you pretty near."

*"What Britain needs is an iron lady."

*"Unless we change our ways and our direction, our greatness as a nation will soon be a footnote in the history books, a distant memory of an offshore island, lost in the mists of time like Camelot, remembered kindly for its noble past."

*"I just owe almost everything to my father [and] it's passionately interesting for me that the things that I learned in a small town, in a very modest home, are just the things that I believe have won the election."

*"Democratic nations must try to find ways to starve the terrorist and the hijacker of the oxygen of publicity on which they depend." [http://www.quoteworld.org/authors/margaret-thatcher/1/]

*"It will be years before a woman either leads the Conservative Party or becomes Prime Minister. I don't see it happening in my time" (in 1970)[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp]

==External Links==
* [http://www.margaretthatcher.org/ Margaret Thatcher Foundation]

SIGNED - an unhappy [[User:DrCameron|DrCameron]] 04:46, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

==Name==

Could somebody please correct Mrs Thatcher's name at the beginning of this article (as it can't be edited)? Her correct name is "Margaret Hilda Thatcher", not "Margaret Hilda Roberts Thatcher". British women don't normally use their maiden names before their married surnames. -- [[User:Emmeline|Emmeline]]

:I have made this point before. The official justification for the form of name is that it corresponds with American practice. As I have argued, however, this logic would imply that (for example) Mao Zedong should become "Zedong Mao", and that a South American Conservapedia should turn Margaret Thatcher into "Margaret Roberts de Thatcher", which seems very strange to me. Dumezil22 20:14, 11 May 2007 (BST)

==Alf's Mini Mart==

The reference to Alf's Mini Mart is an obscure joke based on a British soap opera. Dumezil22 20:10, 11 May 2007 (BST)

Thanks a lot for pointing this out. We've had some problems with people inserting British television jokes as facts and rely on people like you to point this out. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 15:18, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

==Terminology==

I note the comments that US conventions are to be used, but hope this is taken in the right spirit: Where an honour is bestowed on a person in the UK, it is usual to refer to their actions using the title that was appropriate at the time as opposed to their title later on in life. So references to actions during Thatcher's prime ministership should really call her "Mrs" as opposed to "Lady". [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 08:53, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

== Education ==

"Social mobility decreased, whilst '''eduction''' and the National Health Service...".
The writer appears to have spelt education incorrectly.
([[User:BRFD|BRFD]] 21:28, 30 December 2007 (EST))
::And you cannot be bothered to simply correct it because...? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 21:42, 30 December 2007 (EST)
:::Because it says at the top of this very page that editing of the article is locked ([[User:BRFD|BRFD]] 22:14, 30 December 2007 (EST))

Talk:Margaret Thatcher

2007-12-31T02:28:59Z

BRFD: /* Education */

Talk:Margaret Thatcher

2007-12-31T02:28:25Z

BRFD: Education

{{protect|TK}}

''Thatcher won elections as Prime Minister from 1979-1990, ''however''', prior to her politcal career she performed in adult movies under the name of "Margaret Snatcher".'''''' Next to Winston Churchill many consider Thatcher to be the most important British political leader of the twentieth century.''

Goodness! Doesn't anyone do any checking?

--[[User:TK|TK]] 19:39, 13 March 2007 (EDT)
:You just did! Thanks. [[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 19:57, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

TK - I am confused as to why you have reverted my expansion of this article - whilst a firm supporter of most of Mrs Thatcher's reforms I do not feel an entry that does not mention the controversy caused in parts of the UK or the manner of her departure can be considered encyclopedic, since so much current British policy and policy in other countries with Thatcherite governments is still inspired by the reactions to the more unpopular policies of her final term of office? [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 07:57, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

:Agreed; there was nothing there I'd class as 'editorial.' I've restored your material. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 08:00, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

*Material was reverted back, and edited again. You seem at odds with the Sysop, Aschlafly, and his instructions to me. --[[User:TK|TK]] 20:31, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

=="Alcoholism"==
Just to clarify - I have mentioned her alcoholism whilst in office not out of prurience, but because it has a direct bearing on public perceptions of her in her final term. Her drink problem whilst in office is a matter of public record and I've cited reputable news sources as such. The citation to the left-wing "Class War" party is included not because I support them in any way but to illustrate the unusually high degree of polarisation she caused - no other Conservative leader, including Bush in the US, appears to have generated such hatred, as opposed to dislike and disagreement, from left wingers.[[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 08:26, 14 March 2007 (EDT)

*I received this response from the Sysop, Andrew: "So edit them, please. That's what wiki software is for. If you encounter a locked page, which I doubt for Margaret Thatcher, then the talk page is the appropriate place for your comments. '''Claims of alcoholism appear like gossip to me, by the way, which would be against our rules"'''--Aschlafly 20:14, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

::I have not reverted TK's deletion of my edit on her alleged alcoholism but I disagree that it's gossip. Whether or not it was true, the fact that reputable news sources were ''claiming'' that she was an alcoholic (examples at [http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=273&id=317702002], [http://www.guardian.co.uk/medicine/story/0,11381,901553,00.html]) had a direct bearing on her sudden drop in support in her third term and the Conservative Party's removing her as leader, which in turn had major consequences for conservative politics worldwide. I feel that an article on Thatcher that does not mention her forced removal from office is like an article on Nixon or Clinton that failed to mention impeachment.

::I am confused at TK's allegation that I "cited Wikipedia as a source" in this article - my edit contained three citations, one to the BBC, one to the ''Guardian'' newspaper and one to a left wing site, intended to illustrate the type of left-wing opposition to Thatcher and clearly marked as such. I also would like to point out to TK that I am not a 'disgruntled Scottish liberal' as he implies in his edit summaries - while I grew up in Norfolk, about as far from Scotland as it is possible to be in the UK, I now live and work in the US, and have never been 'a liberal' in the US sense of the word. In the British, libertarian sense of the word, then yes, I am a liberal but so I would guess are 90% of contributors here.[[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 06:51, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

*Tracy, although I might have mistook you for a Scottish liberal, I wasn't confusing your edits with those, in many places, by others...citing Wikipedia. Sorry if my posting of Andrew Schlafly's note about Wikipedia was taken as aimed at you. It certainly was not. I am however researching several sources to vet the alcoholism deal. Scotsman.com isn't actually what one would consider mainstream media, such as the London Times, is it? If you will email me, I can give you my IM and perhaps you could enlighten me more on this....sound fair? Please understand that a drink or five isn't exactly noteworthy where it concerns politicians, anywhere in the world, and I believe Sir Winston and President Roosevelt might have out-drank Lady Thatcher 3 to 1. and encyclopedia's the world over haven't deemed it germain to include in their pieces on them, other than a side-note. I cannot find anything concrete, from a reputable source that claims the main reason she was ousted was drinking. Thanks, my name is Terry, btw.......... --[[User:TK|TK]] 07:13, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Hi Tracy. I've looked at your two quotes above and neither of them uses the word "alcoholism", so - at least from the two sources you quote above - that would appear to be (shall we say) an over interpretation on your part. Additionally I'm not sure that I'd regard either "The Scotsman" or "The Guardian" as particularly neutral sources as far as Mrs thatcher is concerned anyway. Finally, in the light of her many accomplishments such as winning the miner's strike, winning the Falklands war, reducing the power of the trades unions, giving people the right to own their own council houses etc etc, an attempt to give significant space to an unfounded allegation that she was an alcoholic simply looks like an attempt to damage her reputation. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 16:06, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

She certainly isn't an alcoholic by clinical standards, but the memoirs of her colleagues do consistently paint a picture of her as a heavy drinker. In contrast to Winston Churchill it never got to the stage where it caused her to become incapable of performing her public functions, so I don't think it merits inclusion in a short encyclopaedia entry. It might be worth noting in a detailed account of her decline and fall as a symptom of her increasing political isolation.--[[User:Jalapeno|Jalapeno]] 02:54, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

== Wikipedia Citations/Sourcing ==

Since the Conservapedia is billed as an alternative to Wikipedia, which is deemed by the Founders as culturally, religiously and politically biased, why in God's name are editors using information from that source to substantiate their information/edits here?

Many of us start from the premise Wikipedia is a suspect source. Please find alternative source information, otherwise there isn't really a point to this "alternative" is there? I am seeing editing here that uses citations from the same author's work at Wikipedia, or quoting material not properly sourced on Wikipedia. That simply isn't an acceptable practice, and is intellectually dishonest.

--TK 19:29, 15 March 2007 (EDT)

*'''You're right. Wikipedia is NOT an acceptable source or authority. Please edit the offending pages and alert the contributors. The mistakes could have been innocent, of course.--Aschlafly 19:32, 15 March 2007 (EDT)'''

== AustinM ==

Is there some reason that you failed to explain your wholesale removal of material here? When editing, removing, one is expected to leave notes. --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:11, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:I agree - he has also deleted the entire entry for [[John Major]], which I have reverted. [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 12:27, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
::suspected vandalism and spoof articles. I did search for references to alcoholism for thatcher and could not find any which were not from scurrilous left wing journals. As a matter of course I rv all edits by the user. I will ban if such behaviour continues. --[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 13:35, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:::AustinM - I've provided 2 citations from major & reputable UK newspapers (''The Scotsman'' and ''The Guardian'') as examples. As I posted above when originally adding this paragraph it does ''not'' allege that Thatcher was an alcoholic but that mainstream UK news media were ''saying'' she was which had a direct bearing on the Conservative Party's decision to remove her from office. In light of your remarks about my 'vandalism', I see that you have replaced my lengthy entry on [[John Major]] - one of the longest serving Conservative Prime Ministers of the 20th century - with the single line "He achieved very little". [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 15:01, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:*'''Tracy''', read above and edit in the caption where you are responded to, please? :p The Scotsman is judged NOT to be mainstream media, and the Sysadmin, has ruled it it gossip.---- '''AUSTIN''': Please provide a reason for your removal of the paragraphs, pertient to Thatcher, that you removed, as requested, or I will revert it back. You are a Sysop...please do try to communicate!

I plan to leave this article well alone as I have no intention of starting a Wikipedia style reversion war. Austin, I have replied to you three times, on your talk page, my talk page and [[talk:John Major]]. I also wonder how ''The Scotsman'' - the largest circulation non-tabloid newspaper in the country - can possibly be 'non mainstream'? Terry as per your request above (sorry I have only just noticed), I can be contacted via email, the address on here should be valid, however in light of the fact that every single change I have made to date appears to be being reverted I think it's unlikely I will be staying here! [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 19:20, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:*Tracy, I shall look for the email. Takes some getting used to, this place, and I at least, am interested in learning about this Thatcher information. I too have had the experience you mention, these syops here just will not communicate at all, nor explain what they do. Austin removed several paragraphs I added about Thatcher, not even leaving a note as to why. That is really poor judgement, and I have written to (ASchlafly) Andrew Schlafly about such matters, and I suggest you do. Rob is the only sysop who at least bothered to post. --[[User:TK|TK]] 19:36, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

::My apologies everyone my conncetion has been down so I have not been able to respond. I was removing edits by Tracy as I repeatedly tried to find mainstream confirmation of her edits and couldn't. My understanding of Thatchers removal was that it was due to her losing control of her cabinet and being percieved as being out of touch. Alcoholism did not feature. Although her husband liked a drink it has to be said. Please carry on editing and I will be more careful next time. TK you can find a apology from me on your talk pages. regards --[[User:AustinM|AustinM]] 11:21, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*'''Austin, all's well that ends well, I say! Thanks for being so dedicated and chasing her down! Send me an email from here, and I will shoot you my IM handle on AIM, as we both seem to be around the late, early, whatever hours, and maybe keeping in touch, we can work better to foil those trolls. Same for you, Conservative & Cracker'''. --[[User:TK|TK]] 15:56, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Is this a joke? ==

"Also Thatcher supported the United States actions against the Communists lead by President Ronald Reagan. "

Ronald Reagan did not lead the Communists! [[User:Myk|Myk]] 19:45, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:::::AGAINST [[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 19:46, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

* You guys need to go back, and see all the material Austin removed, with no explanation....**rolls eyes**--[[User:TK|TK]] 20:05, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Yes, now that I've had a look at it, one does wonder why all of that was removed. Without, as you say, any explanation. Bit strange. Can we have an explanation? --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 20:16, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

*Doesn't seem as if we are important enough to be responded to, eh? Most of these people are running about like chickens with their heads cut off, without any proper procedures for communication. --[[User:TK|Terry]] 23:10, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:Finally. '''Not like Wikipedia at all'''. --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 23:14, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

So can the stuff be re-inserted? (I'm a bit new at this) The vast majority of the stuff was very good. If there are individual points we disagree with we can discuss them here. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 04:10, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:* Well, I was waiting to hear from Austin...but seems to be hiding under his desk... ;-) --[[User:TK|TK]] 10:58, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

::It looks open for editing to me. --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 11:00, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
::Remember: Citing truth that isn't "conservative enough" = vandalism. Doubleplus goodthink! --[[User:Cracker|Cracker]][[User_Talk:Cracker|talk]] 11:02, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*ROFL! I'll revert it back after my breakfast, or you can, Cracker. ;-) Maybe that will smoke sysop Austin out. :p --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:06, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Stifled the British coal and newspaper industries? ==
I thought this was Conservapedia nbot socialapedia and to claim that her fight against the unions stifled the coal and newspaper industries is nothing more than socialist propaganda. You only have to look at Rupert murdoch tom also realise it was untrue propaganda as, of course, her fight against the unions is what re-invigorated Britain, [[User:SqueakBox|SqueakBox]] 20:26, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

:I don't think that anyone - right or left - would deny that she stifled the coal industry and the newspaper unions - these are probably the two most significant achievements of her time in office, even more than privatization! The only thing left and right would differ on on whether it was justified. [[User:Tracy C Copeland|Tracy C Copeland]] 13:50, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Well, unions in general were a lot less powerful when she left office, and the Coal and Newspaper ones were weakened more than most. So I'd say that "stifled" was relatively moderate language. Words like "crushed" or, perhaps even better, "emasculated" spring eagerly to ones lips. --[[User:British_cons|British_cons]] [[User_talk:British_cons|(talk)]] 15:04, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

:*Squeakbox, what was said is, she fought the unions, not the coal and newspaper industry. We had a few vandals who were re-writing the page to better suit their liking, not the facts. As Time magazine said of her "Champion of free minds and markets, she helped topple the welfare state and make the world safer for capitalism." And I say here! bloody here! --[[User:TK|TK]] 15:52, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

== Dumezil22 ==

Please do NOT make surreptitious tense changes, that are misleading and inaccurate. Among the changes that bothered me the most:

1: You removed "corrupt" from the line about the coal and newspaper unions, and corrupt, indeed, they were.

2: You changed a paragraph to make it appear Thatcher was defeated for another term as PM. She was not. She withdrew from consideration, because on the first vote her opponet came within only a few votes of defeating her, and after she and her advisors decided she would not win on the 2nd ballot. To state she was defeated is inaccurate and misleading. A party willing to allow her to withdraw, rather than suffer humiliation at being voted out, holds someone in very high regard. --[[User:TK|TK]] 18:24, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

*This is an American Conservapedia. Her maiden name was Roberts, and thus it is included before her married name. In America. Where this is hosted, that is what we do. If you are unsure, please stop editing, or ask, here, for advice. It is overboard to even suggest she is arguably the best PM in history, great as I believe her to be, and many her accomplishments. Remember Americans have a different style of writing than in the UK, and the rules here state that is the writing and spelling style. I must say you are snide in saying you are "tidying up" and then making major changes, rather than discuss them before like you have been invited to do. --[[User:TK|TK]] 07:46, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:I'm sorry you regard my edits as inappropriate and "snide". Personally, I'm surprised you find them so unacceptable, and your wholesale revert seems unnecessary to me. I don't want to get into a revert war, however. On your specific points:
:1. The British Conservative critique of the unions is not that they were corrupt, but that they were Neanderthal and socialist (I can only recall one instance of union corruption). I'm not sure what your source is here.
:2. I stated that Lady T was never defeated in a general election, and I did not state that she was defeated in the leadership election. I'm surprised that you apparently seem to object to my statement that she was removed from office by her MPs. I would respectfully suggest that you haven't correctly understood the dynamics of the 1990 leadership election or the circumstances of her withdrawal. "If you are unsure, please ask, here, for advice...." ;-)
:3. I'm happy for people to remove Britishisms from my edits. However, to label a Brit with a distinctively American form of name that she has never used in her life seems incorrect. After all, if Conservapedia was ''South'' American, she wouldn't be described as "Margaret Roberts de Thatcher". --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 14:05, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*1, Corrupt is corrupt, no? The Times says they were corrupt.

*2, She was NEVER removed!! Try to get it! She declined to stand for a second vote, when her advisors and she realized she wouldn't have the votes! THAT MEANS SHE WAS NOT REMOVED, But DECLINED TO STAND FOR A VOTE! It is the difference between being sacked, or allowed to resign!

::Being there at the time, it was absolutely clear that although she chose to not stand for re-election as leader in the second poll (and so was not defeated), she was definitely forced out of office against her will. Her initial reaction after the first poll was to carry on - it took a few days for the reality of her position to sink in. By not standing, candidates more to her liking than arch-enemy Heseltine were able to throw their hats into the ring, allowing senior minister John Major to take over. I would advocate using the phrase "forced from office" rather than "defeated" or "allowed to resign" as a more accurate reflection of what actually happened. [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 08:47, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

*3, It means not a wit where someone is from. Here the rules are, use American spelling and customs. Start your own UK Conservapedia, and enforce your customs there. --[[User:TK|TK]] 10:34, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:TK, if you'd like to make your knowledge of the 1990 leadership election even more extensive and formidable, I recommend ''A Conservative Coup'' by Alan Watkins, which also has other information about Lady T. It's by a liberal journalist, but it's quite interesting. I understand that the original title was ''A Conservative Who Was Allowed to Resign by a Party that Held Her in Very High Regard''.

:Well, I've done the maths, and I think my labour here is finished. I won't add any more colour to this article, and I'll leave TK to the defence of Lady T's honour. I'm going to log off now and enjoy having a fag. --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 14:46, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*Pity you couldn't be bothered to follow the source links. It is 10 Downings own website where it explains about her not standing for the second vote. I think users of this wiki will be more inclined to believe that source, wot? And as the book title you recommend says exactly what I have been saying, I guess there isn't a need to look at it, eh? Since she did what she did, it is technically what it is. It would be intellectually dishonest to say they forced her out, since she didn't allow that to happen. Introducing comments that I deleted, because I thought better of making them, letting them remain, only makes you a very small, petty creature. If you think it embarasses me, you are right. If you received some satisfaction from it, I shall pray for you. --[[User:TK|TK]] 11:03, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

:You're right, I shouldn't have quoted your deleted comments. While I thought they were unfair, I've removed them now, and I apologise. As to the rest, I enjoy political history, and the events of November 1990 would be interesting to discuss further. They (and their aftermath and consequences) may at some point deserve their own section of this article, when it grows and develops. Let's leave it for the moment, though.

:Maybe a more constructive line of enquiry would be to ask what amendments to the intro you would support making? I still think it's not in a satisfactory state at the moment. One suggestion would be to split it into separate sub-paragraphs. Also, I'm now going to add a skeleton section on Lady T's pre-1979 career, which isn't covered at present. --[[User:Dumezil22|Dumezil22]] 17:16, 18 March 2007 (GMT)

*I've asked a few people about this, specificically your question, so give me a day or two. Thanks for addding the section pre-79 info! Good show! --[[User:TK|TK]] 01:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
----

----

I tried to add some useful additions to the pre-1979 section explaining the background to the Brighton bomb but it was removed due to 'lack of citation'. I'm new here - how do you add citations? [[User:Commandment9]]

*Commandment9, after you add whatever it is you want to, copy and paste the URL to wherever it is you sourced your contribution from, say, you read it in the NY Times, you would copy and paste the URL right after your addition, and put brackets [ like this ] around it, and the software will automatically format the link, and number it. Citations are added to back-up what is posted, as opposed to opinion, which has no place in an encyclopedia, generally. See the "Help" link to the left of this page, to learn about how to edit and do all kinds of things. --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 09:26, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

Terry thanks for explaining that. I can't do anything on this page as it's now protected but I'll try to remember about citations in future. To whoever removed my paragraph on the 1981 IRA Hunger Strike, I was only trying to put the later references to the Brighton Bomb into context as the bomb was a response by the IRA to what they saw as Margaret Thatcher letting the hunger strikers die. It was of course simply an early example of her not giving in to blackmail.

*If you copy the citation here, I can paste it back into the document. No problem. Glad to have you here, btw, welcome! --~ [[User:TK|TerryK]] [[User_talk:TK|MyTalk]] 18:58, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

== Editing ==

How come I was allowed to make changes and then, after putting in a lot of time and work and trying to save the changes, was told the page was locked? This does not make for happy editors. For anyone who is interested, here is my amended version, which I think is clearer in some areas. I hope that a suysop might use this.

[[Image:503px-Thatcher-loc.jpg|right|thumb|Margaret Thatcher as Leader of the Opposition in 1975.]]

'''Margaret Hilda Roberts Thatcher''', later Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven (born October 13, 1925), became the leader of the Conservative Party in [[The United Kingdom]] in February 1975. She was opposed to socialism and out-of-control union power which had brought down the previous Conservative government in 1974. She ran on these issues which resulted in her being chosen as Prime Minister in May 1979 with the Conservatives sweeping into power.

Lady Thatcher sold many of the nationalized industries back to private investors and made tax cuts. Thatcher stood up against the powerful Labour Party unions, thus encouraging the British coal and newspaper industries by breaking the power of the unions who had a stranglehold over these industries. Due to her strong standards and her leadership style, she became known as the "Iron Lady," a term originally coined as an insult by the communist [[Soviet Union]], but one she adopted with glee. Another famous statement of hers is that "the lady is not for turning" Thatcher was always a strong supporter of the the United States, and was a good friend of President [[Ronald Reagan]], uniting with him in actions against the Communists.

She led Britain to victory against [[Argentina]] in a 1982 war over ownership of the [[Falkland Islands]], and though the United States was allied with both countries, and did initially try to broker a negotiated settlement. When that failed, the U.S. supported Britain and not Argentina with vital intelligence information. There is still debate as to the extent to which the war was contrived, as victory in a conflict would have suited both the Argentine [[Junta]] and the then unpopular Thatcher. The conflict led to a strong friendship with the Chilean military, [[Pinochet]].

Thatcher won three elections between 1979 and decision not to stand for a second party vote in 1990, when it became apparent she wouldn't have the needed votes. Margaret Thatcher was the longest serving Prime Minister in more than 150 years, and alongside Winston Churchill, many consider her to be one of the two most important British political leaders of the twentieth century.

Her regime was controversial however. Social mobility decreased, whilst eduction and the [[National Health Service]] suffered a number of cuts. [[Unemployment]] rose to unprecedented levels, exceeding one in ten, and the method of counting was regularly altered to lower the published figures. Many of her actions in the north of England seemed petulant, infamously the sudden closure of much of the mining industry, whilst refusing to interfere with the consequences.

She fundamentally moved the British economy from an industrialist model, to a financial, speculative economy. This shift also served to undermine trade union power with fewer people in stable long term employment and instead in the service industry.

[[Time Magazine]] wrote of Lady Thatcher: ''"She was the catalyst who set in motion a series of interconnected events that gave a revolutionary twist to the century's last two decades and helped mankind end the millennium on a note of hope and confidence. The triumph of capitalism, the almost universal acceptance of the market as indispensable to prosperity, the collapse of Soviet imperialism, the downsizing of the state on nearly every continent and in almost every country in the world — Margaret Thatcher played a part in all those transformations, and it is not easy to see how any would have occurred without her. Champion of free minds and markets, she helped topple the welfare state and make the world safer for capitalism"'' [http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

==Career prior to 1979==

The predominant influence in Lady Thatcher's early life was her father, [[Alfred Roberts]]. Roberts, the owner of Alf's Mini Mart, was a grocer by occupation who was active in local politics. Years later, Lady Thatcher continued to acknowledge his formative influence on her (for example, in the second volume of her memoirs, ''The Path to Power'').

Lady Thatcher attended Somerville College, [[Oxford University|Oxford]], where she read chemistry and became chairman of the university Conservative association. After graduating, she worked for a time as a research chemist before qualifying as a barrister and practicing as a [[tax]] lawyer, an indication of her interest in financial matters. In this time period, it was uncommon in Britain for a female from an ordinary middle-class background to go to a top-class university and then to pursue a career in the male-dominated and somewhat elitist world of the Bar.

Lady Thatcher married [[Denis Thatcher]], a successful businessman whom she met at a Conservative Party meeting. They had 2 children, twins [[Mark Thatcher|Mark]] and [[Carol Thatcher|Carol]].

Under the troubled Conservative premiership of [[Edward Heath]] (1970-1974), Thatcher served as Secretary of State for Education during which time her most noted achievement was the withdrawal of a daily milk ration to primary age schoolchildren earning her the nickname Milk-Snatcher. After the Conservatives were defeated in the elections of February and October 1974, Thatcher challenged the more liberal Heath for the leadership of the party. When she went into Heath's office to tell him her decision, he did not even bother to look up. "You'll lose," he said. "Good day to you." [http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

Though at the time she was a relatively untested figure (and many in the party were wary of choosing a woman leader), she defeated both Heath and other male rivals in the contest in February 1975. Heath subsequently became a prominent personal and political adversary of Thatcher, drawing accusations of bitterness.

In the 1970s, Lady Thatcher's strongly conservative, pro-capitalist stance resonated with a new mood among the British electorate, many of whom had become dissatisfied with the post-[[World War II]] liberal consensus (the "post-war consensus", sometimes also called "Butskellism"). Thatcher and the Conservatives offered a clear alternative vision for an increasingly aspirational society. The Conservative politician Sir [[Keith Joseph]] was the primary intellectual force behind these theories that later became known as ''Thatcherism''. They were strongly influenced by the pro-market intellectuals [[Friedrich von Hayek]] and [[Milton Friedman]].

==Prime Ministership==

Lady Thatcher's chief goals in power were to reverse Britain's economic decline and to reduce the range of the state as well as standing taller on the international stage. She found a soul-mate in Ronald Reagan, elected in 1980 but whom she had met in 1975. Thatcher started by increasing interest rates to drive down inflation which hit the manufacturing sector and caused unemployment to rise sharply and there was a deep recession in the early 1980s blamed on her Government's economic policy. This led to her famous quote: 'the lady is not for turning', and she refused a policy u-turn and, despite an open letter from 364 economists, taxes were increased in the middle of a recession. Although unemployment did not reach 3 million till 1982, a year earlier British cities burned as thousands took to the streets to demonstrate their frustration. Inflation was going down though, allowing interest rates to fall, but as the economy started to recover Argentina invaded the Falklands, the first (and unprovoked) invasion of sovereign British territory by a foreign government since the Second World War. This invasion was preceded by her withdrawal of military defense from the islands.

Thatcher immediately declared her resolve to recapture the islands in line with the wishes of their inhabitants, and dispatched a naval task force to that end. With help from President [[Augusto Pinochet|Pinochet]] of [[Chile]] and, more covertly, [[Ronald Reagan]], the British forces swiftly recaptured the islands. The resulting wave of patriotic enthusiasm as well as her right to buy policy for council homes, and a uselessly divided opposition, meant she got a landslide victory in the June 1983 general election.

The big theme of Lady Thatcher's second term was reducing the power of the trade unions with a series of measures that a number of unions reacted to with industrial action. In particular the National Union of Mineworkers led by Arthur Scargill. The Tories had prepared for the strike by building up coal reserves and the deploying well paid police units fitted out with new riot gear brought in after the disturbances of 1981 who taunted the strikers by waving fivers at them. The miners responded with bricks and very ugly scenes developed on picket lines that split the country. Scargill's failure to hold a ballot for the strike undermined public support and the striker's chant of 'vote with your feet' calling miners to join the strike was turned on them as more and more returned to work over the year of the strike.

In the middle of the strike, on October 12 1984, the IRA detonated a bomb during the Conservative Party conference in Brighton. Thatcher escaped injury but five people died in the attack and Margaret Tebbit was left paralyzed, the conference went on as normal. Thatcher's political and economic philosophy emphasized free markets and since gaining power she had experimented in selling off nationalized industries starting with the National Freight company, most of the large utilities followed. Thatcher supported Reagan's policies of deterrence against the Soviets and US forces stationed nuclear cruise missiles at British bases, arousing mass protests by the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. She supported the US bombing raid on [[Libya]] from bases in Britain in 1986 and, by refusing to side with a European consortium, in backing a the Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation of the USA over a British company Westland. Michael Heseltine resigned in protest at her style of leadership over this. In 1984 she visited [[China]] and signed the Sino-British Joint Declaration with [[Deng Xiaoping]] that agreed the handover of [[Hong Kong]] in 1997. Also that year at the Fontainebleau summit Thatcher argued that the UK paid far more to the EEC than it received in spending and negotiated a budget rebate using the argument that ‘We want our money back’. In 1985, the University of Oxford voted to refuse her an honorary degree in protest against her cuts in funding for education.

In 1987, Lady Thatcher became the first Prime Minister of the United Kingdom to win three consecutive general elections since [[Lord Liverpool]] (1812-1827). In the late 1980's Thatcher began to be concerned by environmental policy and in 1988 she made a major speech accepting the problems of global warming, ozone depletion and acid rain. More memorably, at Bruges, she made a speech in which she outlined her opposition to proposals from the European Communities for a federal structure and increasing centralization of decision-making believing that the role of the EC should be limited to ensuring free trade and effective competition. She was specifically against Economic and Monetary Union, through which a single currency would replace national currencies, and for which the EC was making preparations. In 1989 the economy high interest rates were imposed to stop an unsustainable boom. At the Madrid European summit, Nigel Lawson and Geoffrey Howe forced Thatcher to agree the circumstances in which she would join the Exchange Rate Mechanism, a preparation for monetary union. She took revenge on both by demoting Howe and listening more to her adviser Sir Alan Walters on economic matters. Lawson resigned that October and in November, a so-called ‘stalking horse candidate Sir Anthony Meyer challenged Thatcher for the leadership of the Conservative Party. In 1989 a new system of local government finance to replace the rates was introduced for Scotland in 1989 and for England and Wales in 1990. Called the 'Community Charge' but known as the Poll Tax was applied at the same amount to every individual resident with only limited discounts. Widespread opposition culminated in a huge demonstration in London on March 31 that turned into the largest outbreak of public disorder central London had seen in a century which was followed by millions of people refusing to pay the tax. This along with her government's handling of the economy, her perceived arrogance and a general feeling that she would never retire, made her politically vulnerable. Geoffrey Howe resigned on November 1 and condemned Thatcher's policy on the European Communities then openly invited 'others to consider their own response'. Michael Heseltine's response was a leadership challenge which resulted in a narrow failure, by two votes, for Thatcher to win automatic re-election. After consulting with cabinet colleagues she found a vast majority thought that she could not win on the second ballot. On November 22nd Thatcher announced that she would not be a candidate in the second ballot. She supported John Major as her successor, and retired from Parliament at the 1992 election.

After leaving the House of Commons, Thatcher was created '''Baroness Thatcher of Kesteven''' and entered the House of Lords, an entirely normal and expected honor for a British ex-Prime Minister. More controversially, Denis Thatcher was given a Baronetcy, which ensured that their son, Mark, would inherit the title of "Sir Mark".

Leaving power reportedly depressed Lady Thatcher, and aside from writing her memoirs, her role as 'backseat driver' in the Major administration was not well received. She publicly endorsed [[William Hague]] against [[Kenneth Clarke]] for the Conservative leadership in 1997. She made many speaking engagements around the world, including very vocal support of former dictator General [[Augusto Pinochet]] that the new Labour administration extradited to Spain on charges of torturing political opponents. In March 2002 she suffered a mild stroke, and she was told by her doctors to make no more public speeches on health grounds, nevertheless she insisted on attending the funeral of her old friend and political soul-mate, Ronald Reagan, in 2004 against her Doctor's orders. Baroness Thatcher is still seen at Tory party gatherings and has endorsed party leaders such as William Hague and Iain Duncan Smith.

[http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html][http://www.fandmpublications.co.uk/pages/margaretbiography1.htm][http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp]

==Quick Facts==
Born: 13 October 1925 in Grantham, Lincolnshire

First entered Parliament: 8 October 1959

Became leader of the [[Conservative]] Party in February 1975

Elected as Prime Minister in May 1979

Age she became PM: 53 years, 204 days

Maiden Speech: 5 February 1960 during the second reading of her Private Member's Bill

Total time as PM: 11 years, 209 days

Nickname: "The Iron Lady"

Education: Kesteven and Grantham Girls' School and Somerville College, Oxford

Before Thatcher became an MP, she worked as a research chemist for British Xylonite and then Lyons & Company, where she helped develop methods for preserving ice cream.

Family: Margaret Thatcher is the younger of two daughters. She often gave her father as an example of an outstanding citizen. She married [[Sir Denis Thatcher]], and has one son and one daughter.

Interests: Music, art, opera and reading.

[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp][http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

==Husband==
Denis Thatcher, ''as the first male PM spouse in history'', was always likely to be the center of media attention - and he didn't disappoint.

When she met him, Baroness Thatcher remarked that "it was clear to me at once that Denis was an exceptional man - he had a certain style and dash." Described as a man of integrity, humor and common sense, he had a strong business background and fought with the Royal Artillery during the war.

It was said that Denis was in 'the Thatcher party not the Tory party'. He once famously remarked, recalling the words of Mark Twain, that: "it's better to keep my mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt."

When he died in 2003 his wife paid tribute to the man she loved by saying: "Being PM is a lonely job. In a sense, it ought to be - you cannot lead from a crowd. But with Denis there I was never alone. What a man. What a husband. What a friend."

[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp][http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/thatcher.html]

== "Thatcherisms" ==

*"The lady is not for turning"

*"There is no such thing as society"

*"I like Mr Gorbachev, we can do business together."

*"I have made it quite clear that a unified Ireland was one solution that is out. A second solution was a confederation of two states. That is out. A third solution was joint authority. That is out-that is a derogation of sovereignty."

*"I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left."

*"If you lead a country like Britain, a strong country, a country which has taken a lead in world affairs in good times and in bad, a country that is always reliable, then you have to have a touch of iron about you."

*"I do not know anyone who has got to the top without hard work. That is the recipe. It will not always get you to the top, but should get you pretty near."

*"What Britain needs is an iron lady."

*"Unless we change our ways and our direction, our greatness as a nation will soon be a footnote in the history books, a distant memory of an offshore island, lost in the mists of time like Camelot, remembered kindly for its noble past."

*"I just owe almost everything to my father [and] it's passionately interesting for me that the things that I learned in a small town, in a very modest home, are just the things that I believe have won the election."

*"Democratic nations must try to find ways to starve the terrorist and the hijacker of the oxygen of publicity on which they depend." [http://www.quoteworld.org/authors/margaret-thatcher/1/]

*"It will be years before a woman either leads the Conservative Party or becomes Prime Minister. I don't see it happening in my time" (in 1970)[http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/Page126.asp]

==External Links==
* [http://www.margaretthatcher.org/ Margaret Thatcher Foundation]

SIGNED - an unhappy [[User:DrCameron|DrCameron]] 04:46, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

==Name==

Could somebody please correct Mrs Thatcher's name at the beginning of this article (as it can't be edited)? Her correct name is "Margaret Hilda Thatcher", not "Margaret Hilda Roberts Thatcher". British women don't normally use their maiden names before their married surnames. -- [[User:Emmeline|Emmeline]]

:I have made this point before. The official justification for the form of name is that it corresponds with American practice. As I have argued, however, this logic would imply that (for example) Mao Zedong should become "Zedong Mao", and that a South American Conservapedia should turn Margaret Thatcher into "Margaret Roberts de Thatcher", which seems very strange to me. Dumezil22 20:14, 11 May 2007 (BST)

==Alf's Mini Mart==

The reference to Alf's Mini Mart is an obscure joke based on a British soap opera. Dumezil22 20:10, 11 May 2007 (BST)

Thanks a lot for pointing this out. We've had some problems with people inserting British television jokes as facts and rely on people like you to point this out. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 15:18, 11 May 2007 (EDT)

==Terminology==

I note the comments that US conventions are to be used, but hope this is taken in the right spirit: Where an honour is bestowed on a person in the UK, it is usual to refer to their actions using the title that was appropriate at the time as opposed to their title later on in life. So references to actions during Thatcher's prime ministership should really call her "Mrs" as opposed to "Lady". [[User:Ferret|Ferret]] 08:53, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

== Education ==

"Social mobility decreased, whilst '''eduction''' and the National Health Service".
The writer appears to have spelt education incorrectly.
([[User:BRFD|BRFD]] 21:28, 30 December 2007 (EST))