"'''Real presence'''" is the term used to describe the [[Christian]] belief that [[Jesus Christ]] is in some way present in the [[Eucharist]], the memorial of the [[Last Supper]] (also known as Holy Communion and the Lord's Supper).

There are many different views of the Eucharist, ranging from a total transformation of the Eucharistic elements of bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus ([[transubstantiation]] - the view of the Catholic Church) to that recognizing simultaneously the body and blood of Christ in the bread and wine (sacramental union - the view of the Lutheran Church), to a totally symbolic view found largely in [[Anabaptist]], Plymouth Brethren, [[Restorationist]] and nondenominational Christian circles.

== Specific Eucharistic Doctrines ==
=== Real Presence ===
[[Roman Catholic]]: the Catholic Church believes in [[transubstantiation]], the doctrine that the whole substance of the bread and wine is transformed into the whole substance of Jesus Christ—His body, blood, soul, and divinity. This church believes that the service is more than a memorial, and also that the [[Eucharist]] (and thus the [[Mass (liturgy)|Mass]]) is a re-presentation of Christ's eternal once for all sacrifice in the Upper Room and on the Cross made present as the supreme sacrifice-offering-up of worship and thanksgiving (Greek "''eu-charistia''") in union with him to God the Father. Those perspectives are not, however, part of the doctrine of the Real Presence.

[[Lutheran]]: Luther and Lutherans today believe in the Real Presence of Christ's body and blood in the Eucharist, with their doctrine of this belief being termed a "sacramental union". However, rather than holding that the whole substance of the bread and wine is transformed (i.e. transubstantiation), they consider the body and blood to exist alongside the bread and wine--"In, with, and under the forms of bread and wine."

[[Moravian]]: The Moravian Church teaches that doctrine of the "sacramental presence of Christ in the Eucharist".<ref name="Atwood2010">{{cite book|last=Atwood|first=Craig D.|title=Community of the Cross: Moravian Piety in Colonial Bethlehem|date=1 November 2010|publisher=Penn State Press|language=English|isbn=9780271047508|page=165|quote=In the eighteenth century, the Moravians consistently promoted the Lutheran doctrine of the real presence, which they described as a "sacramental presence."}}</ref> According to this teaching, "Christ gives his body and blood according to his promise to all who partake of the elements. When we eat and drink the bread and the wine of the Supper with expectant faith, we thereby have communion with the body and blood of our Lord and receive the forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation. In this sense, the bread and wine are rightly said to be Christ's body and blood which he gives to his disciples."<ref name="VelikoGros2005">{{cite book|last1=Veliko|first1=Lydia|last2=Gros|first2=Jeffrey|title=Growing Consensus II: Church Dialogues in the United States, 1992–2004|year=2005|publisher=Bishop's Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs, United States Conference of Catholic Bishops|language=English|isbn=978-1574555578|page=90}}</ref>

[[Reformed]]: The Reformed tradition (which includes the Continental Reformed, [[Presbyterian]] churches, Anglican, and Reformed Baptist denominations) generally believe in a "pneumatic" or spiritual presence of Jesus in the Eucharist; there is still a Real Presence of Jesus which the people experience during the celebration of the Lord's Supper.

[[Anglican]]: The Anglican churches officially believe in the Real Presence received only in a non-carnal way and explicitly reject the doctrine of transubstantiation. Those Anglicans of "Anglo-Catholic" churchmanship affirm the corporeal presence of Christ in the Eucharist.<ref name="Lears1981">{{cite book|last=Lears|first=T. J. Jackson|title=Antimodernism and the Transformation of American Culture, 1880-1920|year=1981|publisher=University of Chicago Press|isbn=9780226469706|page=202|quote=Many folk tale enthusiasts remained vicarious participants in a vague supernaturalism; Anglo-Catholics wanted not Wonderland but heaven, and they sought it through their sacraments, especially the Eucharist. Though they stopped short of transubstantiation, Anglo-Catholics insisted that the consecrated bread and wine contained the "Real Objective Presence" of God.}}</ref>

[[Methodist]]: The [[United Methodist Church]], [[Free Methodist Church]] and other Methodist bodies believe in the Real Presence but reject transubstantiation and consubstantiation. The UMC refers to Christ's presence in the Eucharist as a "Holy Mystery," and prefers not to explain the details of Christ's presence.<ref name="Neal2014">{{cite book|last=Neal|first=Gregory S.|title=Sacramental Theology and the Christian Life|date=19 December 2014|publisher=WestBow Press|isbn=9781490860077|page=111|quote=For Anglicans and Methodists the reality of the presence of Jesus as received through the sacramental elements is not in question. Real presence is simply accepted as being true, its mysterious nature being affirmed and even lauded in official statements like ''This Holy Mystery: A United Methodist Understanding of Holy Communion.}}</ref>

Irvingian: The New Apostolic Church affirms the doctrine of [[consubstantiation]], the teaching that "the substance of Christ's body and blood is joined" to the "elements of bread and wine".<ref name="NAC2020">{{cite web |title=The Catechism of the New Apostolic Church: 8.2.12 The real presence of the body and blood of Christ in Holy Communion |url=https://nak.org/en/abouttheNAC/catechism?_ld=1&chapter=8.2.12 |publisher=[[New Apostolic Church]] |language=English |date=18 December 2020|quote=Rather, the substance of Christ's body and blood is joined to them (consubstantiation).}}</ref>

=== Memorialism ===
[[Anabaptist]], [[Restorationist]], Plymouth Brethren and Nondenominational Christianity: The Lord's Supper is simply a symbol and a memorial of the Last Supper by which worshipers remember Christ's body and blood given up on the Cross. It is not a re-presentation of the sacrifice of the Cross—which is believed to have been accomplished once—nor is it a literal sharing in Christ's physical body or blood, soul and divinity "''partakers of the divine nature''" 2 Peter 1:4 KJV.

==Real Presence gradations of understanding within the Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox traditions==

The Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation was formulated by the teachings of St. Thomas Aquinas during the thirteenth century. Aquinas taught that after the prayer of consecration or blessing at the Altar, the bread and wine were no longer bread and wine, though they appear to be so to the senses. His teaching is based on the distinctions that Aristotle made between essence or substance of things, and the appearance of things. Every thing has an essence and an outer manifestation which he called the "accidents". Thus. according to Aquinas, although after the prayer of "invocation", or calling on the Holy Spirit on the elements of bread and wine, these elements still taste, feel, smell, like bread and wine, they are in reality, because of the word of Christ and the Scripture, His body and blood.

The Orthodox and Aramaic Churches, as well as some modern derivatives, hold to the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist but do not subscribe to transubstantiation, or, consider transubstantiation to be only one possibility for explaining His presence. These churches formulate their position in this manner:
It is clear from Scripture and the way the earliest Christians after the New
Testament believed and wrote, that His life is imparted at the Eucharist in a real way. They most often point out that Christ said "This is my body" and "This is my blood". Further, it is pointed out that in John, Chapter six, "eat my flesh" and "drink my blood" is to be understood "eucharistically" as is shown by the non-inclusion of the Last Supper account and the "words of institution"—"This is my body..." and "This is my blood"—in the Gospel of John. By contrast, they appear in the other three Gospels. There was no need to include them as it had already been dealt with in John 6.

The Lutheran teaching on Christ's presence in the Eucharist is known as the sacramental union, in which there exists a union between the body and blood of Christ with bread and the wine.<ref>{{cite web |title=Sacramental Union |url=http://cyclopedia.lcms.org/display.asp?t1=S&word=SACRAMENTALUNION |publisher=Concordia Publishing House |date=2000}}</ref> The physical body and blood of Christ, as well as the bread and the wine, are both simultaneously present in the Sacrament of the Altar.

Some of the Orthodox and Aramaic Churches understand the Real Presence of Christ in assumptionist terms rather than by transubstantiation. The assumptionist understanding is analogous to the way the Son of God took on human flesh in the Incarnation, a doctrine called ''[[impanation]]''.<ref>Impanation is condemned as a [[heresy]] by the Catholic Church. See [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07694a.htm Impanation - Catholic Encyclopedia (newadvent.org)]</ref> When the Son of God became man, He did so, not by obliterating the humanity by His divinity but rather "taking up" or assuming humanity into Himself. Thus He became truly the Son of God and the Son of Man—a true unity of Deity and Humanity. They hold a similar view with regard to the Eucharist. After the consecration of the bread and wine, Jesus' real presence is there, His body and blood with all the attendant life, strength and grace. This has been done without the obliteration of bread and wine, but, as in the words of Ireaneaus, plain bread has become "heavenly bread" by being assumed into the more dominant flesh of the Son of God, and so also with blessed wine.

==See also==
*[[Eucharist]]
*[[Ex opere operato and ex opere operantis]]
*[[Aramaic Church]]
*[[Passover Seder]]
*[[Gospel reading in the Church: the Turgama]]
*[[Berengar of Tours]]
*[[Ulrich Zwingli]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

==External links==
*[https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-real-presence The Real Presence (catholic.com)] ''A history of the doctrine.''
*[https://www.britannica.com/biography/Ratramnus Ratramnus: Benedictine theologian - Britannica].
*[https://www.britannica.com/biography/Berengar-of-Tours Berengar of Tours - Britannica].

[[Category:Christian Theology]]

Real presence

2025-01-29T22:48:58Z

Anupam: addition

Real presence

2025-01-29T22:48:23Z

Anupam: /* Real Presence */

2023-09-04T23:30:29Z

Anupam: /* Page Move */ thanks

<center>''Welcome to Aschlafly's talk page. Please place complaints about other users or other [[trolling]] content at [[Conservapedia:User complaints]]. If Andy is interested in hearing your complaint, he will respond there. Thank you.''</center>

==July 7, 2023==
Interesting, Jill Lepore on the great Mrs. P. Schlafly
[https://www.pbs.org/wnet/firing-line/video/jill-lepore-dfmre7/] (FiringLine, Jul 7, 2023).[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]]) 17:53, July 9, 2023 (EDT)
:Thanks for the link!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:55, July 9, 2023 (EDT)

NP. Quote from Lepore: ''..I think Schlafly’s just fascinating. She really has been ignored by historians for two reasons. One, academic historians, who tend to be liberal, have really been bad at offering a history of the rise of the modern conservative movement, this just tremendously important political insurgency, you know, since the 1950s, of which, you know, Buckley’s Firing Line was an important element. And then conservative historians just haven’t really paid attention to Schlafly because she was a woman.''[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]])
:That's a very interesting quote. Thank you. Perhaps there could be a new entry that devoted to this issue.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 20:28, July 9, 2023 (EDT)
::Tnanks Andy. Your opinion on [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Phyllis_Schlafly&diff=prev&oldid=1961979 this] please?[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]])
:::It's superb! Very well done. Thank you!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 02:23, July 10, 2023 (EDT)

== Request ==

Hi Andy, can you please tell Karajou that I'm deeply sorry for my iniquities against him two years ago during the massive intra-Conservapedia dispute and that I would be interested in talking to him again? Thanks. —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 15:22, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:Don't fall for it Andy. It's just another one of these conspiracies to sow division in Conservapedia and attack active editors. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 16:04, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::RobSmith, you insisted over and over again 2–3 years ago that if Karajou was defrocked, you would be able to fix Conservapedia. Your promise at this point can be clearly seen as a broken one. All you've done is turn the site into a laughingstock. —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 16:33, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::How many [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= blocks and vandal attacks] have we had in the past 8-9 months? There used to be a half dozen daily.
:::I never said Kara should be defrocked; I said he needed to be reined in and counselled on the proper role and duties of an Admin. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 17:00, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::"i nEvEr" Oh really? How many more instances of [[liberal denial]] will you propagate before I pull out a list of receipts proving the liar you are? "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44) —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 18:25, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::Misuing and misquoting scripture is "taking the Lord's name in vain". I never claimed to be descended from Abraham. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 20:43, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Does an individual have to incorrectly claim to have Abraham as their father to qualify as a child of Satan? The basic concept is applied, both overtly and covertly, throughout the Bible. The Apostle Paul told Elymas the Sorcerer: "O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?" (Acts 13:10) —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Wednesday, 21:21, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::Now you're trolling Andy's talk page. This discussion should be moved elsewhere. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 22:05, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::You're one to talk on the issue of trolling! —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Wednesday, 22:14, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::What goes around comes around. Do unto others. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 23:21, July 11, 2023 (EDT)

== The importance of diversification and resiliency. The tale of the followers of a tired and dying ideology whose web traffic is dying ==

Andy, since March of 2023 the website [[Internet Infidels]] lost 50% of its traffic.

Western atheism had too many eggs in the [[Richard Dawkins]] and [[secular left]]ism basket. Dawkins is far less popular (See: [[Richard Dawkins' loss of influence]]). And now that [[Joe Biden]] is very unpopular and Europe is moving to the political right, that further hurt the atheistic cause and this is only going to get worse due to right-wing populism growing. On top of this, the mainstream media has lost a lot of trust and they used to promote atheism more in the past (See: [[Atheism and public relations]]). Also, people with [[professor values]] promoted atheism and many colleges are closing.

I predict that the next economic recession is going to REALLY hurt the atheistic cause due to the superior fundraising/resources of Christendom (See: [[Atheist fundraising vs. religious fundraising]]).

Conservapedia needs to expand its content because its atheism traffic could taper off over time due to less and less people having interest in atheism. Look at how much traffic to [[Internet atheism|atheist websites]] is falling: [[Internet atheism]] and [[Internet atheism web traffic volume]].

Christendom is going to go from victory to victory (See: [[Future of Christianity]]). Deus Vult!!! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:27, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

:You need more editors to do that, and it's not done by chasing away editors. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]
::::I do have one regret about LT. When I wrote about LT "If he wants to be nasty and contentious (see his initial post on this page), then good riddance. Conservative (talk) 15:30, July 13, 2023 (EDT)", that was too harsh. LT is young and is more hot-headed. I know he hates right-wing populism. And to be fair, among other things, right-wing populists are not very good at balancing budgets when countries have a big amount of sovereign debt. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:29, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
:::::In addition, when I titled my essay [[Essay: On behalf of all Christians who are politically right-leaning, I hereby declare victory! Olé! Olé! Olé!|On behalf of all Christians who are politically right-leaning, I hereby declare victory! Olé! Olé! Olé!]], I could have just used merely one "Olé!". Maybe using three olés was too provocative. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:35, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
:::It's not '''what''' you think or believe., it's '''how''' you interact with others that matters. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 10:23, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
Andy can fix the login problem. But editor retention is important so template pollution through uncivilly covering up people's civil content via a template needs to end. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:41, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

: Make up your mind if you want editor retention or not. You're sending mixed signals. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 10:42, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

== Robert Louis Stevenson ==

I am a fan of Robert Louis Stevenson too. When I was a young man I loved the book ''Treasure Island'' and the short story ''The Tell-Tale Heart''.

I usually read nonfiction, but I think the next non-fiction works that I read will be ''Pilgrim's Progress'', ''Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde'' and ''Alice's Adventures in Wonderland''. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 20:40, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:''The Tell-Tale Heart'' was by [[Edgar Allan Poe]]. I encourage reading the free, available online ''[[Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde]]''. It is remarkably [[conservative]] and brilliantly written.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 21:54, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
::Thanks. I just found a free PDF copy of the book at: [https://www.commackschools.org/Downloads/Jekyll%20and%20Hyde%20text.pdf Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Free PDF copy]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:59, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:::There are many [[Christian]] and [[conservative]] phrases in it. I guess that's why it is rarely part of high school reading today!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:43, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
::::The first sentence of [https://www.commackschools.org/Downloads/Jekyll%20and%20Hyde%20text.pdf Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Free PDF copy]: "Mr. Utterson the lawyer was a man of a '''rugged countenance''' that was never lighted by a smile; cold, scanty and embarrassed in discourse; backward in sentiment; lean, long, dusty, dreary and yet somehow lovable."

::::"Rugged countenance"? That sounds like "toxic masculinity". :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:52, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:::::That is a great example of [[manliness]] in [[literature]]. I've added it to several entries. Thanks!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 14:01, July 23, 2023 (EDT)Conservapedia:Copyrights
https://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Copyrights

==Question==
I have been meaning to ask you this for a long time, But what happen to the 'Create Account' button, my friend is trying to create himself a new account but their is no way to do so because the option is missing, What happened?

:I've been focusing on content. Legitimate new users can email me at aschlafly@aol.com to obtain a new account. A reference or some verification of [[good faith]] is preferred. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 16:32, July 23, 2023 (EDT)

== Kingdom ==

Hebrews 1:8 called. Said "But unto the Son he saith, Thy '''throne''', O God, is for ever and ever: a '''sceptre''' of righteousness is the '''sceptre''' of thy '''kingdom'''."

I've got missed calls from a bunch of Psalms and others as well, but I figured we should probably cut straight to [[Mystery:Did Jesus Write the Epistle to the Hebrews?|the Son as man Himself]]. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 20:16, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:You make a great point, and I'll consider this carefully. Will respond later tonight after studying this in depth. Thank you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 22:39, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:The New Living Translation breaks from the pressure to use "kingdom" and instead translates this verse as:
{{cquote|But to the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. You rule with a scepter of justice. [https://www.biblehub.com/hebrews/1-8.htm See Biblehub]}}
:The [[KJV]] rendition that you quote above strains to use "kingdom" in overly a repetitive way. Rather, the statement would be far stronger if it emphasized that righteousness is the standard in God's [[paradise]], as in "a scepter of righteousness is the standard of thy paradise."--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:30, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::Andy, thrones and sceptres are the things of kings and kingdoms. ConwayII has you in a Bible exegesis full-nelson and I don't see you getting out of it. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:23, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Appreciate the humor and the challenge! But [[ancient Greece]] had no "thrones and sceptres," and neither did ancient [[Greek]]. Like "kingdom", those terms are also figments of the [[monarchy|monarchical]] [[England]]. Thus [[checkmate]]. Ha ha hal. A still better rendition:
{{cquote|Thy presence, O [[God]], is [[infinite]]: a commitment to [[righteousness]] is the standard of thy [[paradise]].}}--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 01:20, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

::::Respectfully, no. Hebrews 1:8 is a deliberate riff on Psalm 45:6: Thy '''throne''', O God, is for ever and ever: the '''sceptre''' of thy '''kingdom''' is a right '''sceptre'''.

::::Cf. Psalm 103:19 (The Lord hath prepared his '''throne''' in the heavens; and his '''kingdom''' ruleth over all.), Psalm 145:1 (I will extol thee, my God, O '''king'''; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever.) and the repeated and reinforcing use of '''majesty''' in verses 5 and 12.

::::The trials and tribulations of various earthly kings and kingdoms is a major thread running right through the OT, and Hebrew's contemporary audience would have had zero difficulty thinking of God in those monarchical terms. You might not like it, but that's not really relevant, is it?

::::As a final note, I urge you to go back to the Greek myths and any reliable history of the actual ancient Greece. You'll find plenty of kings. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 06:17, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::::Like King [[Agamemnon]], for instance. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 11:45, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::::Ancient [[Greek]] did not even have a word for "king", which is mostly an [[Anglophile]] obsession. All the "king" and "kingdom" language in the [[English]] translations of the [[New Testament]] is a dilution by the [[Brit]]s.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 13:15, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Oedipus Rex, usually translated Oedipus the King. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:29, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::::And from Rex we get a whole family of words, like reign, royal, Reich, etc. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:30, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

(Outdent) OK. Let's do this in French, German and Spanish, and then look at the Vulgate Latin and the Septuagint Greek. Psalm 145:1:
*Je t'exalterai, ô mon Dieu, mon '''roi'''! Et je bénirai ton nom à toujours et à perpétuité.
*Ich will dich erheben, mein Gott, du '''König''', und deinen Namen loben immer und ewiglich.
*Te exaltaré mi Dios, oh '''Rey''', y bendeciré tu nombre eternamente y para siempre.
*Exaltabo te, Deus meus '''rex''' ; et benedicam nomini tuo in sæculum, et in sæculum sæculi.
*Ὑψώσω σε, ὁ θεός μου ὁ '''βασιλεύς''' μου, καὶ εὐλογήσω τὸ ὄνομά σου εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος·

Herodotus used the same language 100+ years before the Septuagint was compiled. A very sensible chap called Demaratus asks Xerxes ([https://www.livius.org/sources/content/achaemenid-royal-inscriptions/xph/ a king of kings!]) if he's ''really'' in the mood for some plain speaking and repeatedly addresses him with the honorific '''Βασιλεῦ'''. See end of 101 and beginning of 102: [https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Herodotus/7b*.html English] [https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/H/Roman/Texts/Herodotus/7B*.html#101 Greek]

[[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 14:48, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:This is terrific information, but your French/German/Spanish translations above are of a verse in [[Psalms]], not the [[Epistle to the Hebrews]]. Psalms was not originally written in Greek, and the [[Old Testament]] does refer to kings. The ancient [[Greek]] does not, as it had different types of government. The less biased Wiktionary explains that the primary meaning of βασιλεύς is "chief, master" and its notes describes it as an authority who could, as in a foreign ruler, coincidentally be a king there (but not in Greece). [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B2%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%82]--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:56, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::A king or kingdom denotes an heredity bloodline for the "continuity of government", a Republic has no such doctrine. This is why the Roman Catholic Church adopted celibacy, so that no heredity bloodline would have a claim on the Papacy. In Islam, Shia Islam traces its origins to the family of Mohammad, whereas Sunni Islam traces its origins to the Prophet and his Companions. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 18:32, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

::What's Wiktionary got to do with this? I've just pointed to you to Herodotus (an ancient Greek historian writing c. 430 BC) using Βασιλεῦ in reference to Xerxes, the Persian king (c. 518 – 465 BC) famed for his invasion of Greece. This is a primary linguistic source and obviously relevant re. translating βασιλείας as "kingdom" in Hebrews 1:8.

::The ancient Greeks had these words (and others) for "king" and "kingdom" and your claims to the contrary are simply untrue.

::I'd prefer it if you'd have the grace to concede this narrow point so we can get back to the meat of the discussion. Thanks, [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 19:20, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Conway, your scholarship is excellent and I'm learning from it. Seriously, I mean it. You're right that the verse in Hebrews is a paraphrase, almost a direct quote, in Greek of the verse in Psalms.
:::But languages do sometimes lack words for certain terms. It seems natural that Herodotus used the Greek word for authority to refer to Xerxes. He was indeed an authority, a ruler. That doesn't prove that the Greek term meant "king". And jumping from there to translate the corresponding Greek term as "kingdom" is a bridge too far, it seems to me. I don't intend to be disagreeable about this, and most English translations side with you. I attribute that the immense [[British]], pro-monarchical influence over the English translations. I admit that any version today which departed from that tradition is not going to sell very many copies! But with "kingdom" today connoting [[Mickey Mouse]] and other silliness, overreliance on that term may be causing folks to drive away from the benefits they could obtain from an undiluted translation.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 22:00, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::It's an interesting discussion, but I'm going to thumbnail the issue here:
:::::God initially told Moses when he delivered the law that Israel was not to be like other people, and God was to be both their God and king. But God prophesized through Moses that one day the people would rebel and demand a king. When they entered the land, they had Judges, and not a king. Later in Samuel's day the people rebelled and wanted a king, and God told Samuel to grant them their wish. Samuel anointed Saul, and later David. This succession of kings continued until the Babylonian captivity, when the kingdom was destroyed. But the prophecy of a messiah was that he would restore the kingdom. The genealogies in Matthew and Luke attest to the fact that Jesus was heir to the promises made to David.
:::::The Pharisees told Pilot that Jesus was a fraud and he was challenging Ceasar for the title of King of the Jews (they feared reprisals against the people if the Romans interpreted people calling Jesus 'king' as rebellion against Roman occupation, as well as their own loss of power among the people).
:::::IOWs, the prophecies of a messiah were, and are, interpreted as also meaning 'king'. Now remember, God advised against wanting or having a king, but gave them what they wanted anyway. It wasn't the first time. There are many instances in the bible where God offers people a choice, advises on what God says is the right choice, people reject what God says and he grants them what they wanted anyway. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:14, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::::For example: ''You may eat of the trees of the garden, except for the tree in the midst of the garden...'', etc. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:29, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
[[File:Jesus throne.jpg|thumbnail|center|400px|"At once I was in the spirit, and there in heaven stood a <big>'''throne'''</big>, with one seated on the throne!" (Revelation 4:2 NRSV)
 
 
"They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is <big>'''Lord of lords and King of kings'''</big>, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.” {Revelation 17:14 ESV)]]

At Conservapedia, we have no king but Jesus! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 12:21, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:One more note: When Jesus asked, ''What think ye Christ, whose son is he, David's or God's? And they responded, 'David's'. And Jesus said 'Why then does David in spirit call him Lord?'' - Jesus is making a direct reference to Psalm 45, which then again is cited in Hebrews chapter 1. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:05, August 2, 2023 (EDT)

@Andy: That's certainly gracious (thanks), but it's definitely not conceding the point. Let's try this instead:

#OT authors properly referred to earthly kings and kingdoms when writing in the original Hebrew or Aramaic.
#The authors of Psalms 45, 103 & 145 used precise monarchical imagery re. God, again when writing in the original Hebrew or Aramaic.
#The author of ''Hebrews'' chose to replicate that imagery, most notably and precisely at 1:8.
#Therefore, if the author of Psalm 45 intended to say "kingdom" in verse 6, then the author of ''Hebrews'' intended to say "kingdom" at 1:8 '''whether or not''' you agree βασιλείας adequately captures that concept.
#Given your beliefs re. the author of ''Hebrews'', there can be '''no question''' re. error in His word choice.
#In short, He chose βασιλείας as the most accurate Greek rendition of "kingdom" available to Him.

I think you'd like to say that, if He was writing ''Hebrews'' '''today''', He would likely choose a different word, such as "paradise", and perhaps even abandon the monarchical imagery entirely, for the reasons you've outlined.

That's a very different argument to the one you've made so far, and one that many (most?) people would find very presumptuous.

It does, however, have the distinct advantage of accurately capturing your sincere beliefs without foundering linguistically or logically. Essentially, it's a WWJD? exercise re. the decline of monarchy and the development of the English language. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 15:57, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:Conway, your argument is brilliant and I'm learning from it. Ten years ago I would have been more argumentative in disagreement than today. You are certainly at least mostly right here, and I had never thought of this before. Well done.
:I'm not totally convinced as to "kingdom", however, even assuming you're right about "king". The trick here is switching from Hebrew to Greek to English, and also recognizing that the word choice by the author of the [[Epistle to the Hebrews]], which I'm convinced was [[Jesus]], was constrained by words his audience (not Greek linguists) could understand. "Kingdom", it still seems to me, is a [[British]] invention that certainly conferred immense benefits on the world, but has lost its effectiveness in language.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 19:08, August 2, 2023 (EDT)

::Thanks. That's very kind. It strikes me that "kingdom" is simply a function of "king". We can call it a "realm" or something else entirely, but the concept itself (that which is the king's to rule) doesn't change.

::As for the Hebrew:

::*'''Root word:''' king (''melek'') מֶלֶךְ
::*'''Genesis 39:20:''' of the king (earthly) הַמֶּ֖לֶךְ
::*'''Psalm 45:6:''' of Your kingdom (divine) מַלְכוּתֶֽךָ
::*'''Psalm 103:19:''' and His kingdom (divine) מַלְכוּתֶֽךָ
::*'''Psalm 145:1:''' King (divine title) הַמֶּ֑לֶךְ
::*'''1 Kings 1:32:''' King (earthly title) הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ
::*'''Judges 15:9:''' the kings (earthly) מַלְכֵ֣י
::*'''Daniel 11:9:''' to the kingdom (earthly) בְּמַלְכוּת֙

::I don't pretend to understand the grammar or the diacritics or how to pronounce any of it, but there's enough orthographic similarity to reasonably infer consistent use of the root, as with king / kingdom in English. At a minimum, all the above contain מֶלֶ with varying diacritics.

::[[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 22:24, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::Conway, your analysis is excellent. You're probably right about the use of "king" in the [[Old Testament]]. And to the extent a book in the [[New Testament]] quotes the Old, it is what it is, as you point out.
:::But I think "kingdom" might really be a sufficiently different concept now, at least post-[[Disney]] where its "magical kingdom" really has nothing to do with any "king". I'd like to ponder this further. "Kingdom" is such a basic concept, even recited daily by up to a hundred million people in [[The Lord's Prayer]], that some additional care in analysis of this is appropriate. Thanks again for providing your highly informative perspective and examples.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:32, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::P.S. When I say "post-[[Disney]]" above, I'm not referring to the current political dispute between Disney and [[Ron DeSantis]] (and others). All I mean by that is how "kingdom" has become a fairy tale concept, at least in the [[U.S.]], in part due to Disney, and I don't fault them for that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:53, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
::::"The trick here is switching from Hebrew to Greek to English". To get to English, you have to go through German, first. Gr. Rex -> Ger. König -> Eng. King. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:08, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
::::Now German uses "Reich" for kingdom, which is derived from Gr. Rex. In English, the closest surviving word we have to "Reich" is "rich", denoting something of a commonwealth. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:13, August 5, 2023 (EDT)

== real things in fiction ==

I asked Rob but I figured I'd also ask what your opinion on covering real things in fiction here. I added something to the [[George Washington]] article as an example. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 13:18, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:I like it! Please do more. We're at the intersection of culture, knowledge and politics, and cultural or fictional references to historical figures is a big part of that. Thank you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 13:23, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::What do you mean by "intersection of culture"? This wiki's? [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 13:27, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Right I mean that Conservapedia is at the intersection of culture, knowledge and politics.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:13, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

== Is Bushfan template allowed on my userpage? ==

I added a lot of userboxes to my userpage, and among them was one of "this user supports GWB." Assuming it's a holdover from this wiki's earlier days, as I know that he is loathed by MAGA, I just wanted to ask if you're okay that I decided to add to my user page & that it's not intended to be an insult to Trump supporters.

Userbox refers to how he was my childhood president, there's photo of him with Chick-Fil-A founder, he gave Fred Rogers a presidential award, friends with Michael W. Smith, was openly supportive and empowered Christian music at the time. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 11:52, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:If you want to be identified with the [[Republican establishment]], the [[Uniparty]], the corrupt [[Biden DOJ]], [[Russiagate]] scammers, the [[military industrial complex]], [[globalist]]s, warmongers and supporters of [[Ukrainian Nazi]]s, sure, go ahead. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:40, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
::A shame that others will automatically assume association from a quick glance, but you do have a point there. The crazy thing is that I found a user box for people who support Obama [[Template:User Obama2|here]], so I take it's the risk of one exercising their right to say what or who they support, but to keep in mind of how the average person here will view them or challenge them. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 17:32, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::Splits have emerged in both parties since the Clinton and Bush eras which are not readily apparent to people on either side of the line, in addition to recognition of a [[uniparty]] that is hostile to voters of both parties. The Dems have become the party of war, Wall Street, and the military industrial complex, and the GOP has become the party of workers and the common man. Both party's establishments seek to isolate [[populist]] sentiments among their voters. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:24, August 3, 2023 (EDT)

== Game data allowed? ==

Is word-for-word text from video games (e.g. quotes said by a character) and other sources (like official bios of another character) allowed on this website? those don't have a license attached to them, but I'd assume the closest to them are the respective copyright holders, who add the bios or the quotes themselves [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 09:32, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
:I would assume in most cases it would be okay, provided the language is cleaned up to meet our family friendly guidelines. We may have to see a few examples to see what you have in mind and if any objections arise. Thanks. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 16:59, August 7, 2023 (EDT)

== Length of the early church services ==

Below is the information I promised you about the length of the early church services:

*[https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/what-was-a-church-service-like-in-the-second-century/ What Was a Church Service Like in the Second Century?] (Mass/service lasted 3 hours and congregants stood most of the service) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:07, August 8, 2023 (EDT)

== Here is the info on buycotting that I mentioned to you ==

You can buy products from conservative companies at: [https://publicsq.com/ Public Square]

*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgzWL7PR-9I Largest anti-woke marketplace just opened up public funding via NYSE] - [[Steve Turley]]'s interview with the president of Public Square

*[https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/16/tucker-carlson-twitter-show-strikes-ad-deal.html Tucker Carlson has agreed to a seven-figure ad deal with Public Square (PublicSq.), a conservative-friendly shopping app, for his Twitter show.]

*[https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/anti-woke-marketplace-publicsq-begin-trading-nyse Anti-woke marketplace PublicSq. to begin trading on NYSE]: The conservative alternative to Amazon goes public.

This is probably going to be one of the best ways to buycott and it's growing fast. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 15:31, August 13, 2023 (EDT)

== Conservapedia and the origins of global creationism ==

In 2012, the University at Toronto reported: “We have seen in the last two decades a rapid spread of creationism beyond the United States and beyond Christianity to other religions to the present time where it is a global phenomenon,” said Numbers in a talk entitled Creationism Goes Global. “But the big story in the last 20 years is the booming enterprise of creationism in the Islamic world.”[https://www.utoronto.ca/news/creationism-goes-global]

Conservapedia was launched in 2004 and for awhile it ranked #4 at Google for the term "evolution". Also, historically most of the very vocal evolutionists have been atheists/agnostics and Conservapedia's atheism articles have received a lot of page views.

The website ScienceNordic.com noted in 2015: "Creationism has particularly been on the rise in step with the internet, which according to Peter Kjærgaard has made it much easier for people to become activists and hurl out statements in favour of creationism...".[https://sciencenordic.com/creationism-denmark-education/scientists-warn-creationism-is-on-the-rise-in-europe/1414679]

Conservapedia helped the phenomena of [[global creationism]] as far as its initial rapid breakout period in the 1990s and the first decade of the 2000s.

And once the proverbial genie of global creationism was out of the bottle, it has been impossible for evolutionists to get him back in the bottle. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 11:12, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

:''He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips.'' - [[King Solomon]], Proverbs 20:19. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 15:20, August 16, 2023 (EDT)
::Another interpretation based on [https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/talebearer/ Proverbs 11:13] could be read to say: ''He that goeth about as a talebearer is faithless: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips.''
::A review of User:Conservative's postings in this talk shows that when he's not going about as a talebearer, he acting as a flatterer. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 11:11, August 17, 2023 (EDT)

== Improving the pro-life category ==

I spent some time yesterday and this morning cleaning up the [[pro-life]] articles.

I know you are one of the Conservapedia who is active in the pro-life movement so I thought I would tell you one of the things that are remaining to do. I have engaged in pro-life political advocacy in the past and I would do it myself, but I am working on two off-wiki projects right now so I cannot attend to it expeditiously.

'''In terms of suggestions here is a list of 5 priorities:'''

'''1)''' The article [[Beginning of human life]] has footnotes that are completely messed up.

'''2)''' Come up with more pro-life topics to create articles on (People, places, things and concepts) and drum up interest among current editors.

'''3)''' Expand the [[natalism]] article and create/expand articles related to this concept.

'''4)''' Create an [[Anti-natalism]] article and create/expand articles related to this concept.

'''5)''' Expand the article [[Legal cases about abortion]] that I just created. ('''Question:''' Know any Harvard Law School graduates who are Conservapedians?). :)

[[User:NishantXavier]] is the most fervent Catholic at Conservapedia who likes politics. Maybe he would be interested in helping with items #1 and #2.

Conservapedia does face stiff competition from LifeSiteNews.com, but maybe it can compete in the online encyclopedia niche. I know it is possible to compete in the online encyclopedia niche on a topic given that I did this in the atheism category.

Some good news. Search engine traffic to the website of ''Encyclopedia Britannica'' is way down. So strike while the iron is hot. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 08:04, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:Thanks for your terrific suggestions. This an important issue that could benefit from far more here and elsewhere. [[Liberal]]s are getting away with too much distortion on this topic.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 18:16, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

== Page Move ==
Dear User:Aschlafly, I hope you are doing well! I would be grateful if you (or any talk page stalkers with administrative privileges) could kindly move [[Robbie Mannheim]] to [[Ronald Edwin Hunkeler]]. Thank you for your help! With regards, [[User:Anupam|Anupam]][[User talk:Anupam|Talk]] 18:49, September 4, 2023 (EDT)
:Moved as requested!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 18:51, September 4, 2023 (EDT)
::Thanks! I hope you enjoyed the holiday! Kind regards, [[User:Anupam|Anupam]][[User talk:Anupam|Talk]] 19:30, September 4, 2023 (EDT)

User talk:Aschlafly

2023-09-04T22:49:41Z

Anupam:

User talk:Aschlafly

2023-09-04T22:49:24Z

Anupam:

<center>''Welcome to Aschlafly's talk page. Please place complaints about other users or other [[trolling]] content at [[Conservapedia:User complaints]]. If Andy is interested in hearing your complaint, he will respond there. Thank you.''</center>

==July 7, 2023==
Interesting, Jill Lepore on the great Mrs. P. Schlafly
[https://www.pbs.org/wnet/firing-line/video/jill-lepore-dfmre7/] (FiringLine, Jul 7, 2023).[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]]) 17:53, July 9, 2023 (EDT)
:Thanks for the link!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:55, July 9, 2023 (EDT)

NP. Quote from Lepore: ''..I think Schlafly’s just fascinating. She really has been ignored by historians for two reasons. One, academic historians, who tend to be liberal, have really been bad at offering a history of the rise of the modern conservative movement, this just tremendously important political insurgency, you know, since the 1950s, of which, you know, Buckley’s Firing Line was an important element. And then conservative historians just haven’t really paid attention to Schlafly because she was a woman.''[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]])
:That's a very interesting quote. Thank you. Perhaps there could be a new entry that devoted to this issue.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 20:28, July 9, 2023 (EDT)
::Tnanks Andy. Your opinion on [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Phyllis_Schlafly&diff=prev&oldid=1961979 this] please?[[User:Telling|Telling]] ([[User talk:Telling|talk]])
:::It's superb! Very well done. Thank you!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 02:23, July 10, 2023 (EDT)

== Request ==

Hi Andy, can you please tell Karajou that I'm deeply sorry for my iniquities against him two years ago during the massive intra-Conservapedia dispute and that I would be interested in talking to him again? Thanks. —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 15:22, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:Don't fall for it Andy. It's just another one of these conspiracies to sow division in Conservapedia and attack active editors. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 16:04, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::RobSmith, you insisted over and over again 2–3 years ago that if Karajou was defrocked, you would be able to fix Conservapedia. Your promise at this point can be clearly seen as a broken one. All you've done is turn the site into a laughingstock. —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 16:33, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::How many [https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter= blocks and vandal attacks] have we had in the past 8-9 months? There used to be a half dozen daily.
:::I never said Kara should be defrocked; I said he needed to be reined in and counselled on the proper role and duties of an Admin. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 17:00, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::"i nEvEr" Oh really? How many more instances of [[liberal denial]] will you propagate before I pull out a list of receipts proving the liar you are? "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44) —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Tuesday, 18:25, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::Misuing and misquoting scripture is "taking the Lord's name in vain". I never claimed to be descended from Abraham. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 20:43, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Does an individual have to incorrectly claim to have Abraham as their father to qualify as a child of Satan? The basic concept is applied, both overtly and covertly, throughout the Bible. The Apostle Paul told Elymas the Sorcerer: "O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?" (Acts 13:10) —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Wednesday, 21:21, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::Now you're trolling Andy's talk page. This discussion should be moved elsewhere. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 22:05, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::You're one to talk on the issue of trolling! —[[User:LT|<code>'''LT'''</code>]] '''''[[User talk:LT|Rev. 22:13]]''''' Wednesday, 22:14, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::What goes around comes around. Do unto others. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a chance'']] 23:21, July 11, 2023 (EDT)

== The importance of diversification and resiliency. The tale of the followers of a tired and dying ideology whose web traffic is dying ==

Andy, since March of 2023 the website [[Internet Infidels]] lost 50% of its traffic.

Western atheism had too many eggs in the [[Richard Dawkins]] and [[secular left]]ism basket. Dawkins is far less popular (See: [[Richard Dawkins' loss of influence]]). And now that [[Joe Biden]] is very unpopular and Europe is moving to the political right, that further hurt the atheistic cause and this is only going to get worse due to right-wing populism growing. On top of this, the mainstream media has lost a lot of trust and they used to promote atheism more in the past (See: [[Atheism and public relations]]). Also, people with [[professor values]] promoted atheism and many colleges are closing.

I predict that the next economic recession is going to REALLY hurt the atheistic cause due to the superior fundraising/resources of Christendom (See: [[Atheist fundraising vs. religious fundraising]]).

Conservapedia needs to expand its content because its atheism traffic could taper off over time due to less and less people having interest in atheism. Look at how much traffic to [[Internet atheism|atheist websites]] is falling: [[Internet atheism]] and [[Internet atheism web traffic volume]].

Christendom is going to go from victory to victory (See: [[Future of Christianity]]). Deus Vult!!! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:27, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

:You need more editors to do that, and it's not done by chasing away editors. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']]
::::I do have one regret about LT. When I wrote about LT "If he wants to be nasty and contentious (see his initial post on this page), then good riddance. Conservative (talk) 15:30, July 13, 2023 (EDT)", that was too harsh. LT is young and is more hot-headed. I know he hates right-wing populism. And to be fair, among other things, right-wing populists are not very good at balancing budgets when countries have a big amount of sovereign debt. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:29, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
:::::In addition, when I titled my essay [[Essay: On behalf of all Christians who are politically right-leaning, I hereby declare victory! Olé! Olé! Olé!|On behalf of all Christians who are politically right-leaning, I hereby declare victory! Olé! Olé! Olé!]], I could have just used merely one "Olé!". Maybe using three olés was too provocative. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:35, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
:::It's not '''what''' you think or believe., it's '''how''' you interact with others that matters. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 10:23, July 20, 2023 (EDT)
Andy can fix the login problem. But editor retention is important so template pollution through uncivilly covering up people's civil content via a template needs to end. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:41, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

: Make up your mind if you want editor retention or not. You're sending mixed signals. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 10:42, July 20, 2023 (EDT)

== Robert Louis Stevenson ==

I am a fan of Robert Louis Stevenson too. When I was a young man I loved the book ''Treasure Island'' and the short story ''The Tell-Tale Heart''.

I usually read nonfiction, but I think the next non-fiction works that I read will be ''Pilgrim's Progress'', ''Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde'' and ''Alice's Adventures in Wonderland''. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 20:40, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:''The Tell-Tale Heart'' was by [[Edgar Allan Poe]]. I encourage reading the free, available online ''[[Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde]]''. It is remarkably [[conservative]] and brilliantly written.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 21:54, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
::Thanks. I just found a free PDF copy of the book at: [https://www.commackschools.org/Downloads/Jekyll%20and%20Hyde%20text.pdf Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Free PDF copy]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:59, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:::There are many [[Christian]] and [[conservative]] phrases in it. I guess that's why it is rarely part of high school reading today!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:43, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
::::The first sentence of [https://www.commackschools.org/Downloads/Jekyll%20and%20Hyde%20text.pdf Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Free PDF copy]: "Mr. Utterson the lawyer was a man of a '''rugged countenance''' that was never lighted by a smile; cold, scanty and embarrassed in discourse; backward in sentiment; lean, long, dusty, dreary and yet somehow lovable."

::::"Rugged countenance"? That sounds like "toxic masculinity". :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:52, July 22, 2023 (EDT)
:::::That is a great example of [[manliness]] in [[literature]]. I've added it to several entries. Thanks!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 14:01, July 23, 2023 (EDT)Conservapedia:Copyrights
https://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:Copyrights

==Question==
I have been meaning to ask you this for a long time, But what happen to the 'Create Account' button, my friend is trying to create himself a new account but their is no way to do so because the option is missing, What happened?

:I've been focusing on content. Legitimate new users can email me at aschlafly@aol.com to obtain a new account. A reference or some verification of [[good faith]] is preferred. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 16:32, July 23, 2023 (EDT)

== Kingdom ==

Hebrews 1:8 called. Said "But unto the Son he saith, Thy '''throne''', O God, is for ever and ever: a '''sceptre''' of righteousness is the '''sceptre''' of thy '''kingdom'''."

I've got missed calls from a bunch of Psalms and others as well, but I figured we should probably cut straight to [[Mystery:Did Jesus Write the Epistle to the Hebrews?|the Son as man Himself]]. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 20:16, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:You make a great point, and I'll consider this carefully. Will respond later tonight after studying this in depth. Thank you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 22:39, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
:The New Living Translation breaks from the pressure to use "kingdom" and instead translates this verse as:
{{cquote|But to the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, endures forever and ever. You rule with a scepter of justice. [https://www.biblehub.com/hebrews/1-8.htm See Biblehub]}}
:The [[KJV]] rendition that you quote above strains to use "kingdom" in overly a repetitive way. Rather, the statement would be far stronger if it emphasized that righteousness is the standard in God's [[paradise]], as in "a scepter of righteousness is the standard of thy paradise."--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:30, July 31, 2023 (EDT)
::Andy, thrones and sceptres are the things of kings and kingdoms. ConwayII has you in a Bible exegesis full-nelson and I don't see you getting out of it. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:23, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Appreciate the humor and the challenge! But [[ancient Greece]] had no "thrones and sceptres," and neither did ancient [[Greek]]. Like "kingdom", those terms are also figments of the [[monarchy|monarchical]] [[England]]. Thus [[checkmate]]. Ha ha hal. A still better rendition:
{{cquote|Thy presence, O [[God]], is [[infinite]]: a commitment to [[righteousness]] is the standard of thy [[paradise]].}}--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 01:20, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

::::Respectfully, no. Hebrews 1:8 is a deliberate riff on Psalm 45:6: Thy '''throne''', O God, is for ever and ever: the '''sceptre''' of thy '''kingdom''' is a right '''sceptre'''.

::::Cf. Psalm 103:19 (The Lord hath prepared his '''throne''' in the heavens; and his '''kingdom''' ruleth over all.), Psalm 145:1 (I will extol thee, my God, O '''king'''; and I will bless thy name for ever and ever.) and the repeated and reinforcing use of '''majesty''' in verses 5 and 12.

::::The trials and tribulations of various earthly kings and kingdoms is a major thread running right through the OT, and Hebrew's contemporary audience would have had zero difficulty thinking of God in those monarchical terms. You might not like it, but that's not really relevant, is it?

::::As a final note, I urge you to go back to the Greek myths and any reliable history of the actual ancient Greece. You'll find plenty of kings. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 06:17, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::::Like King [[Agamemnon]], for instance. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 11:45, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

:::::Ancient [[Greek]] did not even have a word for "king", which is mostly an [[Anglophile]] obsession. All the "king" and "kingdom" language in the [[English]] translations of the [[New Testament]] is a dilution by the [[Brit]]s.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 13:15, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::::Oedipus Rex, usually translated Oedipus the King. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:29, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::::And from Rex we get a whole family of words, like reign, royal, Reich, etc. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:30, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

(Outdent) OK. Let's do this in French, German and Spanish, and then look at the Vulgate Latin and the Septuagint Greek. Psalm 145:1:
*Je t'exalterai, ô mon Dieu, mon '''roi'''! Et je bénirai ton nom à toujours et à perpétuité.
*Ich will dich erheben, mein Gott, du '''König''', und deinen Namen loben immer und ewiglich.
*Te exaltaré mi Dios, oh '''Rey''', y bendeciré tu nombre eternamente y para siempre.
*Exaltabo te, Deus meus '''rex''' ; et benedicam nomini tuo in sæculum, et in sæculum sæculi.
*Ὑψώσω σε, ὁ θεός μου ὁ '''βασιλεύς''' μου, καὶ εὐλογήσω τὸ ὄνομά σου εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα καὶ εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος·

Herodotus used the same language 100+ years before the Septuagint was compiled. A very sensible chap called Demaratus asks Xerxes ([https://www.livius.org/sources/content/achaemenid-royal-inscriptions/xph/ a king of kings!]) if he's ''really'' in the mood for some plain speaking and repeatedly addresses him with the honorific '''Βασιλεῦ'''. See end of 101 and beginning of 102: [https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Herodotus/7b*.html English] [https://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/H/Roman/Texts/Herodotus/7B*.html#101 Greek]

[[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 14:48, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:This is terrific information, but your French/German/Spanish translations above are of a verse in [[Psalms]], not the [[Epistle to the Hebrews]]. Psalms was not originally written in Greek, and the [[Old Testament]] does refer to kings. The ancient [[Greek]] does not, as it had different types of government. The less biased Wiktionary explains that the primary meaning of βασιλεύς is "chief, master" and its notes describes it as an authority who could, as in a foreign ruler, coincidentally be a king there (but not in Greece). [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B2%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%BB%CE%B5%CF%8D%CF%82]--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:56, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::A king or kingdom denotes an heredity bloodline for the "continuity of government", a Republic has no such doctrine. This is why the Roman Catholic Church adopted celibacy, so that no heredity bloodline would have a claim on the Papacy. In Islam, Shia Islam traces its origins to the family of Mohammad, whereas Sunni Islam traces its origins to the Prophet and his Companions. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 18:32, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

::What's Wiktionary got to do with this? I've just pointed to you to Herodotus (an ancient Greek historian writing c. 430 BC) using Βασιλεῦ in reference to Xerxes, the Persian king (c. 518 – 465 BC) famed for his invasion of Greece. This is a primary linguistic source and obviously relevant re. translating βασιλείας as "kingdom" in Hebrews 1:8.

::The ancient Greeks had these words (and others) for "king" and "kingdom" and your claims to the contrary are simply untrue.

::I'd prefer it if you'd have the grace to concede this narrow point so we can get back to the meat of the discussion. Thanks, [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 19:20, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Conway, your scholarship is excellent and I'm learning from it. Seriously, I mean it. You're right that the verse in Hebrews is a paraphrase, almost a direct quote, in Greek of the verse in Psalms.
:::But languages do sometimes lack words for certain terms. It seems natural that Herodotus used the Greek word for authority to refer to Xerxes. He was indeed an authority, a ruler. That doesn't prove that the Greek term meant "king". And jumping from there to translate the corresponding Greek term as "kingdom" is a bridge too far, it seems to me. I don't intend to be disagreeable about this, and most English translations side with you. I attribute that the immense [[British]], pro-monarchical influence over the English translations. I admit that any version today which departed from that tradition is not going to sell very many copies! But with "kingdom" today connoting [[Mickey Mouse]] and other silliness, overreliance on that term may be causing folks to drive away from the benefits they could obtain from an undiluted translation.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 22:00, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::::It's an interesting discussion, but I'm going to thumbnail the issue here:
:::::God initially told Moses when he delivered the law that Israel was not to be like other people, and God was to be both their God and king. But God prophesized through Moses that one day the people would rebel and demand a king. When they entered the land, they had Judges, and not a king. Later in Samuel's day the people rebelled and wanted a king, and God told Samuel to grant them their wish. Samuel anointed Saul, and later David. This succession of kings continued until the Babylonian captivity, when the kingdom was destroyed. But the prophecy of a messiah was that he would restore the kingdom. The genealogies in Matthew and Luke attest to the fact that Jesus was heir to the promises made to David.
:::::The Pharisees told Pilot that Jesus was a fraud and he was challenging Ceasar for the title of King of the Jews (they feared reprisals against the people if the Romans interpreted people calling Jesus 'king' as rebellion against Roman occupation, as well as their own loss of power among the people).
:::::IOWs, the prophecies of a messiah were, and are, interpreted as also meaning 'king'. Now remember, God advised against wanting or having a king, but gave them what they wanted anyway. It wasn't the first time. There are many instances in the bible where God offers people a choice, advises on what God says is the right choice, people reject what God says and he grants them what they wanted anyway. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:14, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::::For example: ''You may eat of the trees of the garden, except for the tree in the midst of the garden...'', etc. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:29, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
[[File:Jesus throne.jpg|thumbnail|center|400px|"At once I was in the spirit, and there in heaven stood a <big>'''throne'''</big>, with one seated on the throne!" (Revelation 4:2 NRSV)
 
 
"They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is <big>'''Lord of lords and King of kings'''</big>, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.” {Revelation 17:14 ESV)]]

At Conservapedia, we have no king but Jesus! [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 12:21, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:One more note: When Jesus asked, ''What think ye Christ, whose son is he, David's or God's? And they responded, 'David's'. And Jesus said 'Why then does David in spirit call him Lord?'' - Jesus is making a direct reference to Psalm 45, which then again is cited in Hebrews chapter 1. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:05, August 2, 2023 (EDT)

@Andy: That's certainly gracious (thanks), but it's definitely not conceding the point. Let's try this instead:

#OT authors properly referred to earthly kings and kingdoms when writing in the original Hebrew or Aramaic.
#The authors of Psalms 45, 103 & 145 used precise monarchical imagery re. God, again when writing in the original Hebrew or Aramaic.
#The author of ''Hebrews'' chose to replicate that imagery, most notably and precisely at 1:8.
#Therefore, if the author of Psalm 45 intended to say "kingdom" in verse 6, then the author of ''Hebrews'' intended to say "kingdom" at 1:8 '''whether or not''' you agree βασιλείας adequately captures that concept.
#Given your beliefs re. the author of ''Hebrews'', there can be '''no question''' re. error in His word choice.
#In short, He chose βασιλείας as the most accurate Greek rendition of "kingdom" available to Him.

I think you'd like to say that, if He was writing ''Hebrews'' '''today''', He would likely choose a different word, such as "paradise", and perhaps even abandon the monarchical imagery entirely, for the reasons you've outlined.

That's a very different argument to the one you've made so far, and one that many (most?) people would find very presumptuous.

It does, however, have the distinct advantage of accurately capturing your sincere beliefs without foundering linguistically or logically. Essentially, it's a WWJD? exercise re. the decline of monarchy and the development of the English language. [[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 15:57, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:Conway, your argument is brilliant and I'm learning from it. Ten years ago I would have been more argumentative in disagreement than today. You are certainly at least mostly right here, and I had never thought of this before. Well done.
:I'm not totally convinced as to "kingdom", however, even assuming you're right about "king". The trick here is switching from Hebrew to Greek to English, and also recognizing that the word choice by the author of the [[Epistle to the Hebrews]], which I'm convinced was [[Jesus]], was constrained by words his audience (not Greek linguists) could understand. "Kingdom", it still seems to me, is a [[British]] invention that certainly conferred immense benefits on the world, but has lost its effectiveness in language.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 19:08, August 2, 2023 (EDT)

::Thanks. That's very kind. It strikes me that "kingdom" is simply a function of "king". We can call it a "realm" or something else entirely, but the concept itself (that which is the king's to rule) doesn't change.

::As for the Hebrew:

::*'''Root word:''' king (''melek'') מֶלֶךְ
::*'''Genesis 39:20:''' of the king (earthly) הַמֶּ֖לֶךְ
::*'''Psalm 45:6:''' of Your kingdom (divine) מַלְכוּתֶֽךָ
::*'''Psalm 103:19:''' and His kingdom (divine) מַלְכוּתֶֽךָ
::*'''Psalm 145:1:''' King (divine title) הַמֶּ֑לֶךְ
::*'''1 Kings 1:32:''' King (earthly title) הַמֶּ֣לֶךְ
::*'''Judges 15:9:''' the kings (earthly) מַלְכֵ֣י
::*'''Daniel 11:9:''' to the kingdom (earthly) בְּמַלְכוּת֙

::I don't pretend to understand the grammar or the diacritics or how to pronounce any of it, but there's enough orthographic similarity to reasonably infer consistent use of the root, as with king / kingdom in English. At a minimum, all the above contain מֶלֶ with varying diacritics.

::[[User:ConwayIII|ConwayIII]] ([[User talk:ConwayIII|talk]]) 22:24, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::Conway, your analysis is excellent. You're probably right about the use of "king" in the [[Old Testament]]. And to the extent a book in the [[New Testament]] quotes the Old, it is what it is, as you point out.
:::But I think "kingdom" might really be a sufficiently different concept now, at least post-[[Disney]] where its "magical kingdom" really has nothing to do with any "king". I'd like to ponder this further. "Kingdom" is such a basic concept, even recited daily by up to a hundred million people in [[The Lord's Prayer]], that some additional care in analysis of this is appropriate. Thanks again for providing your highly informative perspective and examples.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:32, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::P.S. When I say "post-[[Disney]]" above, I'm not referring to the current political dispute between Disney and [[Ron DeSantis]] (and others). All I mean by that is how "kingdom" has become a fairy tale concept, at least in the [[U.S.]], in part due to Disney, and I don't fault them for that.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 23:53, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
::::"The trick here is switching from Hebrew to Greek to English". To get to English, you have to go through German, first. Gr. Rex -> Ger. König -> Eng. King. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:08, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
::::Now German uses "Reich" for kingdom, which is derived from Gr. Rex. In English, the closest surviving word we have to "Reich" is "rich", denoting something of a commonwealth. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:13, August 5, 2023 (EDT)

== real things in fiction ==

I asked Rob but I figured I'd also ask what your opinion on covering real things in fiction here. I added something to the [[George Washington]] article as an example. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 13:18, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:I like it! Please do more. We're at the intersection of culture, knowledge and politics, and cultural or fictional references to historical figures is a big part of that. Thank you.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 13:23, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
::What do you mean by "intersection of culture"? This wiki's? [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 13:27, August 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::Right I mean that Conservapedia is at the intersection of culture, knowledge and politics.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 17:13, August 1, 2023 (EDT)

== Is Bushfan template allowed on my userpage? ==

I added a lot of userboxes to my userpage, and among them was one of "this user supports GWB." Assuming it's a holdover from this wiki's earlier days, as I know that he is loathed by MAGA, I just wanted to ask if you're okay that I decided to add to my user page & that it's not intended to be an insult to Trump supporters.

Userbox refers to how he was my childhood president, there's photo of him with Chick-Fil-A founder, he gave Fred Rogers a presidential award, friends with Michael W. Smith, was openly supportive and empowered Christian music at the time. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 11:52, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:If you want to be identified with the [[Republican establishment]], the [[Uniparty]], the corrupt [[Biden DOJ]], [[Russiagate]] scammers, the [[military industrial complex]], [[globalist]]s, warmongers and supporters of [[Ukrainian Nazi]]s, sure, go ahead. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:40, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
::A shame that others will automatically assume association from a quick glance, but you do have a point there. The crazy thing is that I found a user box for people who support Obama [[Template:User Obama2|here]], so I take it's the risk of one exercising their right to say what or who they support, but to keep in mind of how the average person here will view them or challenge them. [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 17:32, August 2, 2023 (EDT)
:::Splits have emerged in both parties since the Clinton and Bush eras which are not readily apparent to people on either side of the line, in addition to recognition of a [[uniparty]] that is hostile to voters of both parties. The Dems have become the party of war, Wall Street, and the military industrial complex, and the GOP has become the party of workers and the common man. Both party's establishments seek to isolate [[populist]] sentiments among their voters. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:24, August 3, 2023 (EDT)

== Game data allowed? ==

Is word-for-word text from video games (e.g. quotes said by a character) and other sources (like official bios of another character) allowed on this website? those don't have a license attached to them, but I'd assume the closest to them are the respective copyright holders, who add the bios or the quotes themselves [[User:Patriotic Gamer|Patriotic Gamer]] ([[User talk:Patriotic Gamer|talk]]) 09:32, August 5, 2023 (EDT)
:I would assume in most cases it would be okay, provided the language is cleaned up to meet our family friendly guidelines. We may have to see a few examples to see what you have in mind and if any objections arise. Thanks. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 16:59, August 7, 2023 (EDT)

== Length of the early church services ==

Below is the information I promised you about the length of the early church services:

*[https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/justin-taylor/what-was-a-church-service-like-in-the-second-century/ What Was a Church Service Like in the Second Century?] (Mass/service lasted 3 hours and congregants stood most of the service) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 19:07, August 8, 2023 (EDT)

== Here is the info on buycotting that I mentioned to you ==

You can buy products from conservative companies at: [https://publicsq.com/ Public Square]

*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgzWL7PR-9I Largest anti-woke marketplace just opened up public funding via NYSE] - [[Steve Turley]]'s interview with the president of Public Square

*[https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/16/tucker-carlson-twitter-show-strikes-ad-deal.html Tucker Carlson has agreed to a seven-figure ad deal with Public Square (PublicSq.), a conservative-friendly shopping app, for his Twitter show.]

*[https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/anti-woke-marketplace-publicsq-begin-trading-nyse Anti-woke marketplace PublicSq. to begin trading on NYSE]: The conservative alternative to Amazon goes public.

This is probably going to be one of the best ways to buycott and it's growing fast. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 15:31, August 13, 2023 (EDT)

== Conservapedia and the origins of global creationism ==

In 2012, the University at Toronto reported: “We have seen in the last two decades a rapid spread of creationism beyond the United States and beyond Christianity to other religions to the present time where it is a global phenomenon,” said Numbers in a talk entitled Creationism Goes Global. “But the big story in the last 20 years is the booming enterprise of creationism in the Islamic world.”[https://www.utoronto.ca/news/creationism-goes-global]

Conservapedia was launched in 2004 and for awhile it ranked #4 at Google for the term "evolution". Also, historically most of the very vocal evolutionists have been atheists/agnostics and Conservapedia's atheism articles have received a lot of page views.

The website ScienceNordic.com noted in 2015: "Creationism has particularly been on the rise in step with the internet, which according to Peter Kjærgaard has made it much easier for people to become activists and hurl out statements in favour of creationism...".[https://sciencenordic.com/creationism-denmark-education/scientists-warn-creationism-is-on-the-rise-in-europe/1414679]

Conservapedia helped the phenomena of [[global creationism]] as far as its initial rapid breakout period in the 1990s and the first decade of the 2000s.

And once the proverbial genie of global creationism was out of the bottle, it has been impossible for evolutionists to get him back in the bottle. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 11:12, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

:''He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips.'' - [[King Solomon]], Proverbs 20:19. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 15:20, August 16, 2023 (EDT)
::Another interpretation based on [https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/talebearer/ Proverbs 11:13] could be read to say: ''He that goeth about as a talebearer is faithless: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips.''
::A review of User:Conservative's postings in this talk shows that when he's not going about as a talebearer, he acting as a flatterer. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 11:11, August 17, 2023 (EDT)

== Improving the pro-life category ==

I spent some time yesterday and this morning cleaning up the [[pro-life]] articles.

I know you are one of the Conservapedia who is active in the pro-life movement so I thought I would tell you one of the things that are remaining to do. I have engaged in pro-life political advocacy in the past and I would do it myself, but I am working on two off-wiki projects right now so I cannot attend to it expeditiously.

'''In terms of suggestions here is a list of 5 priorities:'''

'''1)''' The article [[Beginning of human life]] has footnotes that are completely messed up.

'''2)''' Come up with more pro-life topics to create articles on (People, places, things and concepts) and drum up interest among current editors.

'''3)''' Expand the [[natalism]] article and create/expand articles related to this concept.

'''4)''' Create an [[Anti-natalism]] article and create/expand articles related to this concept.

'''5)''' Expand the article [[Legal cases about abortion]] that I just created. ('''Question:''' Know any Harvard Law School graduates who are Conservapedians?). :)

[[User:NishantXavier]] is the most fervent Catholic at Conservapedia who likes politics. Maybe he would be interested in helping with items #1 and #2.

Conservapedia does face stiff competition from LifeSiteNews.com, but maybe it can compete in the online encyclopedia niche. I know it is possible to compete in the online encyclopedia niche on a topic given that I did this in the atheism category.

Some good news. Search engine traffic to the website of ''Encyclopedia Britannica'' is way down. So strike while the iron is hot. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 08:04, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:Thanks for your terrific suggestions. This an important issue that could benefit from far more here and elsewhere. [[Liberal]]s are getting away with too much distortion on this topic.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 18:16, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

Dear User:Aschlafly, I hope you are doing well! I would be grateful if you (or any talk page stalkers with administrative privileges) could kindly move [[Robbie Mannheim]] to [[Ronald Edwin Hunkeler]]. Thank you for your help! With regards, [[User:Anupam|Anupam]][[User talk:Anupam|Talk]] 18:49, September 4, 2023 (EDT)

Conservapedia:Community Portal

2023-09-04T22:44:34Z

Anupam: fixed spelling error

<center>''(this page redirects from [[CP:COMPORT]])''</center>
<center>''This is the place to discuss issues of interest to the Conservapedia community.''</center>

:''This page contains some material moved from [[Talk:Main Page]] unrelated the [[Main Page|Conservapedia:Main Page]]. This page is for general discussions on any topic of no particular nature. Please abide by CP's civility guidelines, and do not place the name of other Users (even your own) in subheadings. God bless and Happy posting!''

:''If you have a complaint about another editor's actions, attitude, civility, or ideological leanings, place your complaint at [[Conservapedia:User complaints]] for full vetting from the community '''before''' the complaint makes its way up the administrative chain. Thank you.''

[[Community Portal/Archives]]

__NEWSECTIONLINK__

== The Hindu Newspaper: Rahul Gandhi continues on an upward swing ==

Rahul Gandhi's prospects of becoming India's next (2024) PM have never looked better.

"In the last one month, former Congress president Rahul Gandhi’s YouTube channel has posted six videos, including a 12-minute grim video capturing his two-day visit to strife-ridden Manipur in July. Two of these videos have crossed three millions views. Mr. Gandhi, who has often called out the mainstream news channels biased, has been relying more on social media for a direct connect with people.

Mr. Gandhi joined YouTube on August 10, 2017, and eight days later came the first video of his interaction with Doon School students. The six-minute video gathered only 24,000 views. The channel has had modest viewership recording negligible growth for the first five years till September 2022 when Mr. Gandhi led the party’s 4,000-km march from Kanyakumari to Kashmir branded as Bharat Jodo Yatra."

From: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/rahul-gandhis-youtube-channel-on-an-upward-swing/article67165121.ece [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 13:44, August 13, 2023 (EDT)

:I saw part of his speech before Modi's no confidence motion, a little bit of Modi's afterward. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 22:59, August 13, 2023 (EDT)

== Weiss Special Counsel Appointment Did Not Violate DOJ Regulations ==
Garland appointed Weiss as a Special Counsel using 28 U.S.C. §§ 509, 510, and 515 as the basis for the appointment. [https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/unpacking-the-hunter-biden-special-counsel-announcement] Barr used the same regulations appointing U.S. Attorney John Durham as Special Counsel to investigate whether anyone violated federal law in connection with the investigations directed at 2016 presidential campaign activities. [https://www.justice.gov/d9/fieldable-panel-panes/basic-panes/attachments/2021/02/26/durham.order_.pdf] Should the item on the Main Page complaining about Weiss be deleted or edited? --[[User:LSimons|LSimons]] ([[User talk:LSimons|talk]]) 00:13, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
:[[Bill Barr]] was incompetent and disloyal, and panders to the [[liberal media]]. I would consider anything he did to have any precedential value.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] ([[User talk:Aschlafly|talk]]) 00:31, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
:: How, exactly, was Barr disloyal? Remember, Trump is a stable genius and only hired the best people. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r2qQUfh_ls] I’ve noticed all CP admins are Trump sycophants, as a result, everyone running this encyclopedia is required to believe Barr was a competent Attorney General. No excuses.--[[User:LSimons|LSimons]] ([[User talk:LSimons|talk]]) 10:00, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::This is a regulation issued by the attorney general, so the AG can interpret it. As a practical matter, I don't think that we'll see Garland held in contempt. But what happened to, "No one is above the law"? The special counsel regulation says: "The Special Counsel shall be selected from outside the United States Government." [[User:PeterKa|PeterKa]] ([[User talk:PeterKa|talk]]) 06:38, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::Mr. Ka: Why are you quoting the relevant US Code concerning the appointment of Special Counsels? I included these references in my first post concerning the appointment of Weiss. PLEASE read 28 U.S.C. §§ 509, 510, and 515. I’m begging you. CP admins seem to be very inconsistent when it comes to the appointment of Special Counsels. John Durham was a DOJ employee when he was appointed a Special Counsel yet the CP article on him does not contain any griping about how the Trump administration flouted the law. Will this oversight be remedied?--[[User:LSimons|LSimons]] ([[User talk:LSimons|talk]]) 10:00, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::::I am quoting from CFR 600, the [https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-28/chapter-VI/part-600 special counsel regulation]. And no, you didn't include this reference in the OP. I don't think there is any question that Garland has violated it. There is no practical way to require an A-G to follow a DOJ regulation. He makes the regulations, so what would be the point of making him go through meaningless hoops? The hypocrisy is that if you make the same argument with respect to Trump, the rejoinder is, "No one is above law." [[User:PeterKa|PeterKa]] ([[User talk:PeterKa|talk]]) 00:29, August 15, 2023 (EDT)
::::There's an obvious [[bias]] here, which was not so obvious in the Durham probe at the outset. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:14, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::::Thirty-one Senate Republicans demanded Special Counsel status for Weiss. [https://www.scott.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Hunter%20Biden%20Special%20Counsel%20Letter%20FINAL.pdf] Now that their demands have been met, Tennessee Sen. Marsha Blackburn is actually complaining about what she demanded. She's using words like 'collaborator'.[https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/marsha-blackburn-hunter-biden-david-weiss/2023/08/14/id/1130657/] Real classy. --[[User:LSimons|LSimons]] ([[User talk:LSimons|talk]]) 14:38, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::::That was eleven months ago (during the last Congress, in fact); could Hunter then still be prosecuted on the tax charges? or was that before the statute of limitations ran out? If that's the case, Weiss and Garland indeed are collaborators. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 14:46, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::Ah... Not the case, the IRS has ten years to chase someone for not filing a tax return. [https://www.irs.gov/filing/time-irs-can-collect-tax] Are you going to admit you're wrong about the collaboration claim? Who am I kidding? Of course you won't! As for the Main Page item? I live in the real world, it'll stay there for all eternity. --[[User:LSimons|LSimons]] ([[User talk:LSimons|talk]]) 18:35, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::Failure to file, yes; tax fraud and tax evasion, no. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 18:46, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::: Since there is not a statute of limitations for tax fraud, what are you trying to say? It's like you simply do not care about accuracy in reporting. Is this what the 'Best of the Public' has become? --[[User:LSimons|LSimons]] ([[User talk:LSimons|talk]]) 19:36, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::Prof. Jonathan Turley: [https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1690040737595895809] ''"I was not nearly as delighted as I would’ve been two years ago when many of us were calling for this appointment. They waited for the appointment of a special counsel after the statute of limitations has run on critical crimes, like the tax violations in 2014/2015."'' [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 19:46, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::The tax violations can get extremely complicated, since the money was split up several ways, which leads to [[conspiracy]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 19:52, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::IOWs, the [[IRS]] can say, "We have proof of unreported income paid into your bank account of $10 million". Hunter's only defense is "Yes, but I only received $5 million of that." [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 19:55, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
:::::::::::So what you're trying to tell me is the Trump administration dropped the ball when it came to Hunter Biden's alleged violations of tax law during 2014/2015. Got it. Your hypotheticals need a little work, actual evidence would be nice. Can't convict a person with hunches. --[[User:LSimons|LSimons]] ([[User talk:LSimons|talk]]) 21:36, August 14, 2023 (EDT)
::::::::::::The problem is much bigger than Hunter Biden. The problem is [[DOJ]] corruption. The problem is bigger than DOJ corruption - the DOJ lied to the [[FISA court]], and neither the [[Judicial Branch]] nor [[Legislative Branch]] did anything. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:00, August 15, 2023 (EDT)

== Governor DeSantis interview with CNBC’s Brian Sullivan ==

Brilliant as usual. Comments in the link:
https://youtu.be/HCgYIS5f8-M

"1.We need a monetarist leader in DC! 👏🏻
2. You have earned my Vote, President DeSantis! ❤
3. DeSantis 2024!🇺🇸❤️
4. Meanwhile DeSantis acts like an actual candidate." [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 19:55, August 15, 2023 (EDT)

:You should read Sundance's latest, just give yourself some [https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/08/15/understanding-why-georgia-republican-governor-brian-kemp-supports-corrupt-fulton-county-da-fani-willis/ balance and perspective] on how the American political system works. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 20:50, August 15, 2023 (EDT)
::Update: [https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/08/18/aint-that-a-peach-ron-desantis-holds-private-meeting-with-brian-kemp-in-georgia/ Ain’t That a Peach, Ron DeSantis Holds Private Meeting with Brian Kemp in Georgia]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 22:52, August 18, 2023 (EDT)

:Now, some of this may be confusing if you are not a regular follower; the basic idea is - DeSantis backers don't care if DeSantis wins or loses the 2024 general election; the purpose of his candidacy is to prevent Trump from being the nominee. It's a GOP internecine struggle. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 21:02, August 15, 2023 (EDT)

I don't think that's true even for other supporters of Governor De Santis becoming President De Santis, but it certainly isn't true for me. I support future President Ron De Santis because (1) he's the Strongest Pro-Life and Anti-Woke Candidate in the Race and (2) There's arguably a Christian moral obligation to support the Strongest Pro-Life and Anti-Woke Candidate, especially if there's a good chance we can win the Culture War for good in 4 or 8 years of a De Santis Presidency. Conservatives should rally and unite around a De Santis Presidency soon! [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 23:33, August 15, 2023 (EDT)
:When I say "DeSantis" backers", I mean it in the same context Sundance's article uses it, his financial backers. They don't care about you, the voter. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:31, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

De Santis Economic Plan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1yzEFYF4r0

Comment: "Americans have forgotten what a real president sounds like. For far too long the public has come to believe that we need an entertainer to amuse us rather than to stand up for what's right and see all goals to completion. Ron DeSantis/2024" [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 01:38, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

== Infographics Show Video: "How War in Ukraine Proves US Military Would DOMINATE Russian Military" ==

"The war in Ukraine has proven one major thing to be true; the Russian military is weaker than everyone believed. Check out today's new epic video that breaks down why the Russian military is having a difficult time with Ukraine and would be entirely dominated by the US military in a head-to-head conflict."

https://youtu.be/XDxm9i1XaKA [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 20:31, August 18, 2023 (EDT)

:[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dI7M4Om2ITw Kid, lay off the drugs]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 22:27, August 18, 2023 (EDT)

:See also [https://youtu.be/U_3AWj4tals US MILITARY CAPABILITY - CIA analyst LARRY JOHNSON] (57 sec). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 22:46, August 18, 2023 (EDT)

==How the DC propaganda media works==
This headline from ''Roll Call'', [https://rollcall.com/2023/08/15/once-a-conservative-lawmaker-mark-meadows-now-indicted/ Once a conservative lawmaker, Mark Meadows now indicted], is not addressed to the general public. It specifically is addressed to conservative lawmakers to think twice about supporting Trump. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 14:50, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

==Jordan Schachtel==
[https://rumble.com/v369125-the-uniparty-vs-the-people-americas-new-political-landscape.html The Uniparty vs The People: America's New Political Landscape]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 16:21, August 11, 2023 (EDT)

== Will he or won't he? Trump "tempted" to attend the First GOP Presidential Debate ==

He should. "Former President Donald Trump has not decided whether or not he will attend the first Republican presidential debate. NBC News Correspondent Garrett Haake reports the latest from Trump’s campaign."

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/trump-is-tempted-to-attend-the-first-gop-presidential-debate-190806085695 [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 23:31, August 15, 2023 (EDT)

:Oh, so now we're depending on [[NBC News]] for reporting on Trump. Have they fired [[Ken Delanian]] or any of the other [[CIA]] [[troll]]s on the payroll yet? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 00:47, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

Nope, not depending on them, and don't know the answer to your question. The issue here for Conservatives is whether Trump will show up or not. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 01:00, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

:The issue for [[conservative]]s is how much of anything they can believe coming from NBC News. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:20, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

:NBC News does not provide information or news - they sell a product - in the same way [[Anheuser-Busch]] sells Bud Lite, Mattel Toys the [https://www.bitchute.com/video/FMBCWF5uqGJl/ Transgender Barbie], or [[Disney]] sells [[pedophilia]]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:22, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

Do you think Trump will show up for the Debate or not? [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 01:39, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

:If his poll numbers rise after the latest indictments, probably not; it they remain flat or suffer, then yah he'll show up. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:13, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

Fair Enough. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 07:52, August 16, 2023 (EDT)

===Trump confirms his intellectually lazy plan to skip the Debate===

Well, there you go: "Former President Donald Trump on Friday announced he would skip Wednesday’s first Republican presidential debate in favor of a one-on-one interview with a friendly right-wing commentator – the second time in as many days that he backed out of an event that spelled trouble for his multiple and overlapping criminal defense strategies."

https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2023-08-18/trump-backtracks-on-debate-blockbuster-press-conference [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 14:54, August 20, 2023 (EDT)

If Trump was confident he could handle and even parry attacks on his record, he would have showed up and answered questions. De Santis will. Trump and De Santis are the only serious contenders in this thing, and with Trump awoling, De Santis has an opening. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 14:56, August 20, 2023 (EDT)

:The RNC has allowed a proxy, [[Byron Donalds]], to sit in, last I heard.

:And the ratings review of Tucker's simultaneous interview with Trump measured against FOX ratings wil tell the tale (not just of Trump, but the future of cable TV "news" vs. [[social media]]. This will affect advertising rates for years to come). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 15:30, August 20, 2023 (EDT)

"What’s Next: A big debate … without Donald Trump.
Mr. DeSantis faces the biggest test of his campaign on Wednesday: the first Republican presidential primary debate of the 2024 race, in Milwaukee.

Mr. Trump appears to be skipping the debate, handing Mr. DeSantis an opportunity to take the spotlight. From: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/20/us/politics/desantis-stump-speech.html

Governor De Santis has a Great Opportunity to control the narrative and focus on his record, his policies and the issues in the Debate. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 02:22, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:''NYT'': "handing Mr. DeSantis an opportunity to take the spotlight". Lol.

:C'mon, I had hoped to use this page to conduct a seminar on how to spot [[propaganda]], not spread more of it. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:33, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:Now why would NYT say that since Ramaswamy has been burying DeSantis? Doesn't the NYT read its own news? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:35, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

The article continues: "But the former president’s absence also means Mr. DeSantis, as the stand-in front-runner, will most likely come under withering fire from rival candidates. How he handles those attacks could define his image in the eyes of many voters tuning into the primary race for the first time." so it's hardly favorable or friendly to De Santis. It's just reporting on the State of the Race as it sees it. It was Trump's Choice not to show up. That creates both Opportunities and Threats for Governor De Santis, who'll be Centre Stage. at the Debate now since he's the leading contender among Actual Debaters. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 02:46, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:"the stand-in front-runner" at 5%, but Ramaswamy with 13% can kiss off cause he's Indian. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 08:44, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:"DeSantis faces the biggest test of his campaign on Wednesday"; DeSantis is looking more and more like [[Kamala]]. She had all big money endorsements and personnel of the [[DNC]] establishment, including [[Marc Elias]], [[Christopher Steele]]'s paymaster, as General Counsel. She dropped out in December before the January primaries started. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:05, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

For someone who claims near-personal-infallibility in being able to filter through the MSM propaganda, Rob, you could do a better job at it! The Liberal Media is now pushing the Narrative that Ron De Santis cannot win. That's obvious. Very obvious. Meanwhile, here are facts.

"The NBC News/Des Moines Register/Mediacom poll released early Monday found that 42 percent of likely Republican caucus attendees in Iowa listed Trump as their first choice, giving the former president a 23-point lead over DeSantis, who was picked by 19 percent ...

Republican Sen. Tim Scott (S.C.) came in third place with 9 percent support in the new survey, followed by former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley and former Vice President Mike Pence, who each received 6 percent. Former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie received 5 percent support, conservative entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy received 4 percent, North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum received 2 percent and former Rep. Will Hurd received 1 percent. No other candidate received more than 1 percent support."

So first point (1) Trump is the Clear Front-Runner at 42 % and De Santis is the Clear 2nd Front-Runner after Trump around 20%. Ramaswamy whom you mentioned meanwhile is at 4%, behind Sen. Tim Scott, Nikki Haley and Christie though above the rest like Doug Burgum and Will Hurd.

Next, (2) De Santis is still being actively considered by exactly 22% of other GOP Voters, which means he could break even with Trump.

From: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4162034-trump-holds-23-point-lead-over-desantis-among-iowa-republican-caucusgoers-survey/

"Twenty percent of likely GOP caucus goers listed DeSantis as their second choice, with an additional 22 percent saying they were still actively considering the Florida governor." This would happen gradually as the field winnows and other candidates drop out. De Santis is not going anywhere. There's a very good chance he'll continue to be 20%+ while multiple candidates remain then move to 30-40% after that. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 09:06, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:"NBC News poll". Lol.

:Iowa, where all the money is being spent. Nationally Trump is at 60% and DeSantis 3rd at 5%. And the debate ''is not'' in Iowa. IOWs, the debate is about national issues, not Iowa farm issues. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:11, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:You yourself just said Trump is the clear frontrunner with 42% in Iowa; no, I would disagree. Trump is the "clear frontrunner" nationally with 60%, but in Iowa, if Trump were to step in doggie doo-doo and lose 1%, and all 22% "thinking" about DeSantis switched, DeSantis would win. In theory Trump is "catchable" in Iowa, but nationally he's the clear choice. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:20, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

Lol. There is no National Primary. The First Primary is the Iowa Primary and there Evangelical Christians are Dominant. Pro-Life, Anti-Woke Governor Ron De Santis is clearly the Conservative Christian Candidate of Choice.

Next, it's even better than I thought. Note the wording carefully: "Twenty percent of likely GOP caucus goers listed DeSantis as their second choice, with an additional 22 percent saying they were still actively considering the Florida governor."

So, (1) 19% support De Santis as first choice (2) 20% listed De Santis as second choice (3) AN ADDITIONAL 22 % say they are still actively considering the Florida governor. Can we put it all together and tally it? That means De Santis could win 19+20+22= a whopping 61%!!!

That's Amazing! And that's the Reality of Conservative Governor Ron De Santis' Amazing Popularity with the Base the Press is hiding. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 09:30, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:No, you can't. You can't make their 2nd choice their first choice. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:33, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:IOWs, the 22% are the undecideds. The 20% are committed. To make a leap in logic like you propose you need an entirely new alleged "scientific" poll. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:35, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:Here's a simple mathematical and scientific formula you can use as a rule of thumb: NBC + NYT = BS. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:39, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

=== Debate Reviews: De Santis, Haley, Pence did well. Christie lost an exchange to Ramaswamy and Ramaswamy lost one to Haley ===

So, I watched the debate and been reading some reviews. Lots of people mentioned (1) Haley's exchange with Ramaswamy on Foreign Policy, and most acknowledge she won that. Likewise, (2) Ramaswamy won his on Trump vs Christie. (3) Pence criticized R on multiple issues (3) De Santis held his own and stood above the fray and talked about his Conservative Record and his Winsome Policies and Successful Re-Election.

Good Debate: I would say De Santis, Haley and Pence did the best. Ramaswamy, Christie and Scott next. The other two barely showed up.

The NYT below quotes 2 Conservative Debate Reviewers:

"Rich Lowry, the editor of National Review, said during the debate that he expected Mr. DeSantis to “deal with constant incoming” attacks. By the end, Mr. Lowry said that Mr. DeSantis had “helped himself” by sticking to his message — and took “no incoming fire.”

Other observers noted Mr. DeSantis’s ability to stay in comfortable territory, trumpeting his conservative track record in Florida as proof that he could steer the Republican Party to success.

Mary Katharine Ham, a journalist and conservative commentator, called Mr. DeSantis’s strategy “effective.”

“Gimme a topic. Yeah, I did that thing. Let me tell you what I did. It happened in Florida. Results,” she said, summarizing his approach."

From: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/24/us/politics/who-won-debate-republican.html [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 04:01, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

Here's an excerpt: "You have no Foreign Policy Experience and it shows!" The ChatGPT line was another Zinger! https://youtu.be/5ht3qDRIgHw [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 04:06, August 24, 2023 (EDT)
:[https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trumps-debate-counter-programming-draws-millions-views-x-2023-08-24/ Donald Trump's counter-programming to the GOP debate draws over 74 million of views on X (formerly known as Twitter).]

:"An impressive 50 million+ viewers (Expected) turned their attention to Fox News to watch the debate, breaking previous records and making it the highest-rated Republican presidential primary debate to date."[https://coopwb.in/info/how-many-people-watched-gop-debate/]

:Trump knows how to draw a crowd. He was in the television industry and is a fairly good marketer/salesman. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:20, August 24, 2023 (EDT)
::Thanks. We needed that 50 million link for MPR. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:38, August 24, 2023 (EDT)
50 MN+. Amazing Number. I predict De Santis will have around 100 MN people voting for him by the time all this is over. In the Debate, some things were clear: (1) Among Trump contenders, only De Santis, Haley and Pence are Top Tier Contenders (2) Christie and Ramaswamy Tier II or III. The others non entities who barely showed up. When it comes to 4 last candidates, it'll be Trump and those 3. When to 2, most likely Trump and De Santis.

And after that- De Santis still has High Favorables and many consider him their Second Choice, as that Poll I mentioned showed- its Anyone's Game. I think De Santis will do very well in head to head against Trump, not to mention against Biden. He was killing (metaphorically) Biden on multiple issues.[[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 11:12, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:All I can say is, I watched it for two minutes and [https://www.poynter.org/commentary/2023/fox-news-republican-debate-recap/ liked Martha McCallum's outfit]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:47, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

"The Best Argument against Democracy is a 5 minute Conversation with the Average Voter" ~ Winston Churchill.

===Fox: Majority of Viewers say Gov De Santis won the Debate===

Yup, told you so. Here it is: "poll taken after the first GOP presidential primary debate on Wednesday showed that a plurality of Republican voters felt that Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis won the night.

According to a Washington Post poll, conducted alongside FiveThirtyEight and Ipsos, 29% of Republican voters polled said that DeSantis performed the best out of the eight candidates on the stage in Milwaukee.

The poll was conducted from Aug. 23-24 and polled 775 potential Republican primary voters who watched the debate."

Future President De Santis was Truly Presidential through and through, I gotta say. A Winsome smile, Good Arguments against Biden and the Radical Left, criticizing Fauci and the Fed, and fighting for the Common Good. Good to see many beginning to see he's a League above the rest. Trump should show up next time. Trump should try to do the same. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 22:57, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:Final score: [[Trump]] [https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2023/08/24/president-trump-notes-almost-a-quarter-billion-views-for-his-tucker-carlson-interview-while-preparing-for-arrest-at-730pm-et-in-atlanta/ 248 million], [https://youtu.be/ZYixfnV_D0Y] [[Fox News]] [https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/first-2024-gop-presidential-primary-debate-averaged-13-million-viewers 13 million]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 22:58, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:That's got to be close to a world record, [https://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1694513603251241143 248 million views in 24 hours.] (Wow, it was 248.6 a minute ago when I retrieved it from the front page, and it 248.7 now a minute late. That even beats Rich Men North of Richmond.). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:03, August 24, 2023 (EDT)
:248.8 now a minute or two later. It's getting nearly 100,000 hits per minute right now (don't expect MSM or Tech magazines to report this). [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:05, August 24, 2023 (EDT)
::I can hear all the conspiracy theories already: "Trump and Kremlin have quite a bot operation"; "Amazing, Musk and the [[NSA]] can handle the server load." [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:09, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

And 50% of those who watched could be critics/skeptics of Trump, disagreeing with what he said. A large majority of voters don't want a Trump Biden rematch in 2024.

Meanwhile, Presidential De Santis's Debate Night Highlights: https://youtu.be/CexqdE6yhZc?si=odLj127mNDcmUJDG [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 23:21, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

=== Roll Call: Majority don't want Trump Biden Rematch in 2024 ===

See this from Roll Call: "With a Joe Biden vs. Donald Trump rematch being the current conventional wisdom, the 2024 election — mired in personality — is quickly becoming the election that voters don’t want. In fact, a solid majority of voters have an unfavorable view of each of the leading candidates, as people wonder whether either man can manage the increasing turmoil coming from all sides.

What is clear in most polls is the sorry fact that voters don’t want either candidate to run. An Economist/YouGov poll conducted June 10-13 found 59 percent of voters don’t want Biden to seek reelection, with only 26 percent favoring a run for a second term.

In the same poll, Trump got similar results — with 56 percent against him running again compared to 33 percent in favor. Independents were against either candidate running again, with 64 percent against Biden and 59 percent against Trump." [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 23:24, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:The Dump Biden movement gains momentum. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:26, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

Yup. But Trump is only 5 points behind at 59. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 23:29, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:At this point, the only way for the Dems to get away from the charge of election tampering and interfering with American [[democracy]] is to dump Biden and hope the allegations don't stick to Newsom or whoever and the party as a whole. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:31, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:Consider the source, ''Roll Call'' magazine. Its readership is aimed at members of Congress and their staff, not the general public (as in the warning they sent out last week to conservative members not to endorse Trump cause you'll get indicted); this is message to Biden supporters in Congress to dump Biden, cause a majority in the public don't want him to run again. ''Roll Call'' could care less about Trump, cause Trump doesn't live and work in DC now. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:35, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

That doesn't change the fact that some 60% don't want Trump to run, like 65% for Biden.

And Bro Rob, mere "allegations" are not going to do anything. They're very happy to win and get into the White House while Conservatives are reduced to making "allegations". What we need is a Solid, Proven Conservative who will (1) prevent them from Cheating (2) Win by such a clear number - e.g. 100 MN votes or so - that even Cheating will not swing it for the Dems. And Conservative Champion Gov. Ron De Santis is that Man who can do that and stop the Deep State from Election and Governing Interference. Biden, Newsom, whoever it is, Conservatives need to do both (1) and (2) above to win and Presidential De Santis will. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 23:40, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:(ec) As a daily "news" publication, ''Roll Call'' is about as swampy and deep state as you can get - cause that's who it's aimed at and that's who its readers are - the DC swamp (there are numerous other publications, think tank & government reports, newsletter blogs etc. But this is supposed to be an up to the minute "news" publication). It outlines all the "talking points" before even the MSM gets them. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:46, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:"It doesn't change the fact...". What makes you think it's a "fact"?

:In assessing the veracity of any supposed "news" organization, look first at its intended audience. This is not meant for mass consumption. It is outlining a strategy and talking points. Hopefully then, the MSM will pick it up: "Polls say the public doesn't want either of them to run." [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:46, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

:So yes, it is advocating for a DeSantis-Newsom contest, which Fox News is already working on (old news). The problem for the Swamp is getting from here to there with the MSM and public onboard. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:50, August 24, 2023 (EDT)
::''"That doesn't change '''the fact that''' some 60% don't want Trump..."''
:::It is a fact that ''Roll Call'' reported 60% don't want Trump to run; it is not a fact that 60% don't want Trump to run. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 14:28, August 26, 2023 (EDT)

So if allegedly it's wrong, then how do you know what was reported about Biden is allegedly correct? Maybe Majorities actually want him too, lol. Anyway, all these have been confirmed by Multiple Polls: "Though Donald Trump enjoys an improved standing among Republicans, the result of the general elections might be shocking for him, warns an AP-NORC poll." https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/64-of-americans-will-not-vote-for-trump-in-2024-poll-results-101692242596565.html

If Trump is the Nominee, he will lose again to Biden, shamelessly blame cheating and excuse himself for complete failure, and indulge in more self-pity, defeatism, will destroy the Principles of the Conservative Movement, further divide America, and achieve nothing.

Here's Trump claim Cruz "cheated" when Cruz won Iowa: https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-cruz-stole-iowa-tweet-deleted-218674

For better or worse, no one trusts the Boy who cried Wolf beyond a certain point, and that's all where Donald Duck Trump is right now.

If that's the Dystopian Future you want, go for it. But with Presidential Governor De Santis, that will be avoid and Conservatives win.[[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 00:29, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:I don't know how you come up with any of that. It's a cooked poll that comes up the message that a supposed majority don't want either to run, rather than "Trump indictments kill chances", which is the news they'd like to run. And they can't say "Majority don't want Biden to run." It's a cooked poll that says, "Majority want DeSantis-Newsom ticket". Look at the timing of release. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:25, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

And the AP Poll: "64% of Americans will not vote for Trump in 2024: Poll Results"? [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 01:31, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:That's not news. It's programmed talking points for the swamp.

:(ec) It's a script. None of this is spontaneous or random. They all follow a script.

:Look at [https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fsome-of-the-documents-leaked-by-teixeira-were-completely-v0-0c6sthfoj4ib1.png%3Fwidth%3D1080%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D4514b0f77382f37cba6d09af0999309613bc23b6&rdt=36950 this script here], for erxample; Zelensky gets the message from his intel agencies, "Hey buddy, you are out." So he has to keep his ear close to the ground to figure what day is the expiration date in 2024, come up with a cover story, buy the plane tickets and figure out his escape route, etc etc etc.

:So look at 2024 primary schedule. They all know where they are going to be on such-and-such a date. Press releases and polling results are scheduled in advance. You seem to think this is random "news" that falls from heaven, like the rain. It isn't. It's programmed. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:37, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:Election eve, 2016. The polls said Hillary was going to win with 64%. You need to lay your ideological blinders off and learn from your experience. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:41, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:'''Update:''' Here's your latest deep state headline: [https://rollcall.com/2023/08/24/trump-leverages-georgia-arrest-to-amplify-white-house-campaign/ Trump leverages Georgia arrest to amplify White House campaign]. IOWs, they need to plot their strategy for their next more. Look, Roll Call has two categories, "Politics" and "Policy". It's in "Policy".
:"Policy", IOWs, it's the standing rules how everybody is suppose to handle a given situation going forward. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:47, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:Look at this one: [https://rollcall.com/2023/08/15/newest-trump-indictment-leaves-lawmakers-repeating-themselves/ Newest Trump indictment leaves lawmakers repeating themselves]. It's a message to lawmakers, 'you're getting boring'. You don't see that kind of headline in MSM - all you see on MSM is lawmakers repeating themselves, whereas the enthusiasm is on Trump's side as he leverages the indictment. They are thrashing about for new ideas and a new PR strategy. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:56, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

=== Reminder from 2016: Donald Duck Trump claimed Ted Cruz "stole" the Iowa Caucuses after losing to Cruz there ===

"Trump accuses Cruz of ‘fraud,’ calls for new Iowa election

By NICK GASS

02/03/2016 08:55 AM EST

Updated: 02/03/2016 05:13 PM EST

Donald Trump’s moment of humility didn’t last long. The billionaire businessman, still licking his wounds after a decisive loss in Iowa on Monday, is now crying foul, accusing Ted Cruz of stealing the election and calling for a do-over.

After congratulating Cruz during his concession speech on Monday night, Trump took to Twitter on Wednesday morning to make the case for why his loss was a crock.

“Ted Cruz didn’t win Iowa, he illegally stole it. That is why all of the polls were so wrong any [sic] why he got more votes than anticipated. Bad!” Trump tweeted Wednesday morning. The tweet disappeared within minutes of posting and was replaced by with another that no longer included the word “illegally.”

He followed up with an ultimatum: “Based on the fraud committed by Senator Ted Cruz during the Iowa Caucus, either a new election should take place or Cruz results nullified,” he tweeted. Trump said later Wednesday that he’ll likely sue. “I probably will; what he did is unthinkable,” he said during an interview with Boston Herald Radio."

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/trump-cruz-stole-iowa-tweet-deleted-218674 [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 00:32, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:These programmed stories will be published daily between now and November 2024.

:The reason the Dems came with no-name candidates like Carter in 1976, Clinton in 1992, Obama in 2008 is cause they were a blank slate. An unknown quantity. They had no baggage. When you run a known quantity like Hillary, Trump, Gore, etc. they carry baggage. This does not make the case for Desantis as long as Trump is willing to fight.

:Now, you can argue the case that a DeSantis-Trump primary contest is like the 2008 Hillary-Obama contest where the dark horse beat the known incumbent. That may appeal to Democrats who are naive and like to gamble, but conservatives value experience. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:45, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

Agreed. Conservatives should Value Good Experience, like that of running Record Budget Surpluses, not Bad Experience, like that of Raising National Debt by 8 Trillion Dollars. When De Santis becomes President, especially for Two Terms, he will solve America's Debt Problem.[[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 01:56, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

And yes, your 2008 analogy of Obama beating Clinton is a Good One, except De Santis has Credible Accomplishments Barry Obama never had.[[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 01:57, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:To speak with any authority on the $8 trillion debt, you're going to need a bit better understanding of [[economics]]. Anyone who cashed a $3,000 covid stimulus check is responsible for the debt increase. To try to pin it on Trump, if you're getting these talking points from the DeSantis camp, only makes you look like an opportunist. We are, after all, conservative Republicans, not idiot Democrats who fall for any line of BS. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 02:06, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

Well, I'm an Investment Banker, so fairly Good at Economics. Next, it's an objective fact he raised it by 8 TN Dollars, while De Santis ran record Budget Surpluses: "TALLAHASSEE, Fla. – Today, Governor Ron DeSantis announced the surplus for Fiscal Year 2021-22 is $21.8 billion – the highest in state history and more than 21 percent above the state budget for the fiscal year. Collections in May were $742 million above estimates, and preliminary data for June collections are approximately $950 million above estimates.

“Despite the headwinds created by the Biden administration’s policies, Florida is in a strong fiscal position because we preserved freedom and kept our economy open,” said Governor Ron DeSantis. “Our responsible policies have allowed us to make record investments to support our communities, promote education, protect the environment, and provide record tax relief for Floridians, all while building record reserves to protect the state against the reckless fiscal policies from Washington.” https://www.flgov.com/2022/07/07/governor-ron-desantis-announces-record-surplus-for-fiscal-year-2021-22/ Finally, the Buck stops with Trump. He was the President and should have done better. He also should have fired Fauci and reduced dependence on the CDC. He did some ok things. But De Santis is better than him. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 03:24, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:Persistent budget surpluses aren't much more healthy than deficits. The government has to do something with that money, it has to buy assets and invest in something. It leads to a situation where the government eventually owns everything, like communism. Should be able to understand that. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:35, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

=== Boom! Gov Ron De Santis now LEADS Trump in Vote Consideration ===

Wow! Gov. Ron De Santis now actually LEADS Trump in Vote Consideration, i.e. Share of Republican Primary Voters considering voting for each Candidate now after the Debate versus before it happened.

From: https://twitter.com/GiancarloSopo/status/1694802983085568003

"Ron DeSantis won the debate. Among Republican primary voters who watched the debate:
#1. DeSantis was rated #1
#2 DeSantis now leads Trump by 6 pts in vote consideration
#3 DeSantis has the highest favorables among all candidates

(Image in the Link). Those who can Post Images can post it here if they wish. Otherwise, you can click on the Twitter Link to read it. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 06:25, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:I can find polls that say Ramaswamy won the debate. It means nothing. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:36, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:And virtually no one says they won't vote for Trump cause he refused to debate. No matter how you measure it, it's tainted. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:38, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:You can't ignore the 800 lb. gorilla not in the room. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:39, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

Please read carefully. De Santis was 63 before the Debate adn is 87.5% after it. Trump was 81.4% before it and is 66.2% after it. Can you please post the Graph Image as a Picture here so we can analyze it more? Imo, it was a mistake for Trump not to show up, but to each his own. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 08:13, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:It's tainted no matter how you cut it. The 40%+ frontrunner was not included. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 08:30, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

=== New Fox News Iowa Poll Post Debate - De Santis now in Statistical Dead Heat with Trump in one-on-one contest ===

Wow! Amazing Bump for Pro-Life Hero and Conservative Christian Crusading Champion Gov. Ron De Santis from the Debate:

"The Public Opinion Strategies poll also found DeSantis closing the gap against Trump in a head-to-head matchup, with '''DeSantis having 40% support to Trump's 43% post-debate.

'''Pre-debate, DeSantis largely trailed with 34% compared to Trump's 51%."
'''
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/iowa-poll-shows-desantis-closing-gap-trump-after-first-republican-debate [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 03:37, August 27, 2023 (EDT)

Trump was better than Clinton, sure, but that's a low bar. Clinton/Obama/Biden are like -100%. De Santis is like +100% when it comes to a Conservative Record and a Christian Life. De Santis-Trump-Clinton is like 100-0-neg 100. Yes, Trump>Clinton, but De Santis>Trump. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 04:05, August 27, 2023 (EDT)

=== De Santis already completes - with 4.5 months left - an Amazing 50 of Iowa's 99 Counties after Pledging/Promising to visit them all ===

Here's yet another Proof Governor Ron De Santis keeps his Promises. When Ron De Santis promised to visit all of Iowa's 99 counties - and keep in mind he's still continuing his role as Florida's Amazingly Successful Governor, with an economy ranked no. 1, and with people shouting "2 more years" when he won re-election because they wanted him to run for President as well, as he's doing - many were skeptical. They thought he couldn't follow through. But he has. In the below video, De Santis mentions he's half way there with 4.5 months left. 50 of 99 counties.

"This is our 50th County in Iowa ... so we're halfway home, and we're having fun doing it". https://youtu.be/IgQnf0DRAHo [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 06:16, August 27, 2023 (EDT)

:Oh, so he's taking a page out of the [[Grassley]] playbook. Can you say, "machine politics"? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:09, August 27, 2023 (EDT)

== Reminder: In Dec 2022, Governor Ron De Santis was CRUSHING Trump by 23 Points ==

"In a new poll regarding potential Republican nominees for president in 2024, the Florida governor, Ron DeSantis, led Donald Trump by 23 points." https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/14/first-thing-ron-desantis-takes-huge-lead-over-trump-in-republican-poll

The only reason De Santis' measurable support declined a bit is because (1) De Santis was too focused on the Actual Hard Work of Governing rather than enjoying himself doing nothing or just campaigning - you know, like Trump raising the Debt by 8 TN Dollars, while De Santis ran Record Budget Surpluses - that Governing. (2) And because, the Press started their fake narrative that De Santis could not win. And also (3) because Trump attacked De Santis, but De Santis mistakenly didn't Punch Back (later he did) initially. I'd have advised him to.

Just wait and watch. Let the Debates pass and let's see how the candidates do. By Dec 2023, De Santis could well be leading again. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 09:38, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:Yep. It shows the [[corruption]], influence, and [[brainwashing]] big money can bring into the alleged "democratic" process. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:41, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

Nope, that was his Excellent Record delivering Budget Surpluses, fighting the Woke Left, being Pro-Life, Anti-Fauci, Pro-Freedom etc that did that. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 10:04, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

:And it's all been downhill since. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 11:15, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

=== CNBC: Trump holds big lead in new Iowa poll, but DeSantis and Scott see paths to victory ===

"KEY POINTS

Former President Donald Trump holds a double-digit lead over Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis in a major new poll of likely Republican caucusgoers in Iowa.But the Des Moines Register/NBC News/Mediacom poll also found that a majority of respondents were still undecided as to who they will support, leaving a door open for Trump’s rivals.The poll was released days before the first Republican primary debate and the same week Trump is required to surrender to authorities in Georgia, where he faces more than dozen felony counts ...

But Trump’s advantage is still not ironclad, according to the joint survey conducted by the Des Moines Register, NBC News and Mediacom. Fully 52% of respondents said they had not yet decided who they would support, while 40% said they were certain."

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/08/21/trump-leads-desantis-in-iowa-poll-ahead-of-first-republican-debate.html [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 15:41, August 21, 2023 (EDT)

=== De Santis' Record on Conservative Judges in Florida ===

"He added, "And in Florida, I inherited a very liberal state supreme court, maybe the most liberal in the country, very activist. But I was able to replace three of the four liberals my first month in office with conservative justices. I've since been able to make a number of appointments since then. So we now have the most conservative state supreme court in the country. And so I think we have a really good track record on doing that.:https://www.businessinsider.in/politics/world/news/desantis-says-he-has-respect-for-trumps-3-supreme-court-appointees-but-theyre-no-thomas-or-alito-well-do-better-than-that/articleshow/100947146.cms [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 19:02, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

=== Fox: DeSantis campaign boasts endorsements, latest poll numbers as signs of momentum in Iowa ===

De Santis is doing extremely well in Iowa, despite the Fake News Media trying to create a Fake Narrative to the contrary. The below proves it.

"Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has received a historic 40 endorsements from Iowa state legislators, his campaign says

Republican presidential candidate Ron DeSantis' campaign is boasting of endorsements and the latest poll numbers as signaling growing ground support in Iowa.

DeSantis’ team said he’s received a historic 40 endorsements from state legislators and has a total of 120 county-level chairs supporting him – at least one in each of the state’s 99 counties. That’s the most of any candidate in the race, DeSantis campaign spokeswoman Carly Atchison told Fox News Digital.

The Florida governor — just months away from Iowa caucus day — also has more than 10,000 Iowans committed to caucus for him, representing one-fifth of the total Iowans who caucused for former presidential candidate Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, when Cruz won the Iowa caucuses in 2016 ...

Despite having more than $20 million spent against him, DeSantis is still viewed as favorable by two-thirds of likely caucus-goers, the highest favorability of any candidate in the field, according to a new Des Moines Register/NBC News/Mediacom Iowa Poll of 406 likely Republican caucus-goers conducted Aug. 13-17 ...

The Des Moines Register poll shows 66% of respondents viewed DeSantis favorably, compared to 29% who saw him as unfavorable. This was ahead of the current frontrunner, former President Donald Trump, who was viewed as favorable by 65% of respondents.

DeSantis is also the first choice, second choice or being actively considered by 61% of likely caucus-goers, just slightly behind the 63% of respondents who said the same for Trump. No other candidate has broken out of single digits."

From: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/desantis-campaign-boasts-endorsements-latest-poll-numbers-sign-momentum-iowa [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 01:44, August 22, 2023 (EDT)

:Nishant, gotta hand it to you, you beat out ''Roll Call'' magazine by two weeks with this one: [https://rollcall.com/2023/08/23/desantis-touts-iowa-kingmaker-whose-picks-werent-nominated/ DeSantis touts Iowa ‘kingmaker’ whose picks weren’t nominated]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:08, August 24, 2023 (EDT)

==No one is talking about China, India, Democrats, the 2024 election or election betting markets, or the oil industry in this thread==

:::The market for Russian oil sales to China/India is probably the decisive factor as Russia uses this to fund the war.

:::Noone can reliably forecast the Chinese economy in the short to midterm given the opaqueness of the Chinese system.

:::Given the Biden administration's malpractice in terms of foreign policy, the sad part of this whole debacle is that it's a toss-up of whether the Democrats are thrown out of the White House in the next election with the betting markets saying the Democrats have a 54% chance of winning in 2024.[https://electionbettingodds.com/PresidentialParty2024.html].

:::This might be the key to the war and it has to do with the American oil industry: “It’s perhaps less about the administration in power and more about the entrepreneurial nature of the oil industry,” said Matt Smith, Kpler’s lead oil analyst of the Americas.[https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/09/business/oil-production-biden-trump/index.html] Maybe the war will depend on some entrepreneurial breakthrough in the oil industry which will lower the price of oil in the world. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 22:29, August 22, 2023 (EDT)
::::Russia has to fund this war for it to continue. Oil/gas prices are an important component as far as the future of this war since a substantial part of the Russian economy is in the oil/gas industry.

::::So regardless of whether someone brought this up, it's very relevant. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:42, August 22, 2023 (EDT)
Unfortunately for Russia, world crude oil prices are substantially down from the May 2022 peak as can be seen [https://www.google.com/search?q=oil+prices&oq=oil+prices+&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i67i131i433i650j0i131i433i512j0i67i650j0i131i433i512j0i512j0i131i433i512j69i60.2807j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 HERE]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 23:48, August 22, 2023 (EDT)

:We've heard this same noise out of you at least 365 times over the past year. Can't you ever come up with something new and interesting? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 23:55, August 22, 2023 (EDT)
::"Iraqi Oil Minister’s Ankara visit raises hopes for resuming halted exports, potentially easing OPEC+ supply crunch.

::Chinese economic woes exert downward pressure on oil prices, despite Beijing’s recent moderate rate cut.

::J.P.Morgan analysts underline China’s slipping demand for mobility fuels, another damper on oil prices."[https://www.fxempire.com/forecasts/article/oil-prices-forecast-opec-production-cuts-tested-by-iraqs-resumption-1369608]

::And its going to be hard for Russia to diversify its civilian economy from an overreliance on oil/gas during the war because it is spending more on guns which will decrease its ability to spend on butter. See: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model Guns vs. Butter model]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:03, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

:::bla bla bla. So far you've posted about 1,500 bytes to disrupt an ongoing discussion. Have some courtesy toward other users, please. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 00:06, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

:::Hint: In a [[geopolitical]] discussion, the object is to zero-in and focus on specifics, not to spread it out with irrelevant subjects like China, India, or US elections in an effort to make yourself sound (or convince yourself) that you are informed or intelligent. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 00:35, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

:::And we know where your whole conversation is going: "If only a Republican is elected in the next election, there will be peace", along with other assorted [[jingoism]]. Meanwhile, between now and November 2024, another 180,000 Ukrainian soldiers could be killed, but who gives a crap, huh? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 00:38, August 23, 2023 (EDT)
::::It's the entrepreneurial activity in the West in the energy industry that is going to hurt the ability of the Russians to fund this war. I cite: [https://archive.md/ADbZV#selection-101.5-101.64 The Five-Year Engineering Feat Germany Pulled Off in Months as far as its natural gas facilities].

::::Step by step Russia's ability to fund this war will be diminished via Western entrepreneurial activity in the energy industry. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 00:44, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

:::::You post the same tired old junk all the time. Don't forget your [[Narcissism|narcissitic]] boast of having defeated internet atheism single handedly. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:05, August 23, 2023 (EDT)
I recall ALWAYS saying that I merely assisted Christendom. I challenge you to find a quote that shows otherwise. He who asserts must prove! The ball is in your court. I doubt you will get it over the net. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 01:28, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

:Huh? Aren't you the guy who single handedly defeated [[internet atheism]]? We've heard it a thousand times. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:35, August 23, 2023 (EDT)
::If you are telling the truth, then it should be easy for you to find a quote. All I hear is crickets! Feel to engage in [[last wordism]] though. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 01:38, August 23, 2023 (EDT)
:(ec) But you didn't rest on your laurels. No. Next you took on Ratioanalwikians [[carbohydrate]] intake and French Fry eating. Now you've set your sights on Russia. Vladimir Putin is quaking in his boots. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:40, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

::What is [[Narcissism]] anyway? Is it keeping your user talk page clean and holy and too [[pride|proud]] to bend down and talk to others? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:32, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

:::''I recall ALWAYS saying that I merely assisted Christendom.''

::Two "I"s in one sentence. Rather narcissistic, isn't it? I'm sure [[God]] is grateful to you for your assistance to Christianity, as well. I wasn't aware God needed help until you stepped up to volunteer. If God doesn't recognize and reward you for your narcissism, let me thank you, instead. Where would God and the world be without your assistance to Christianity? [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 07:59, August 23, 2023 (EDT)

==GOP/Fox News debate aftermath==
=== National Review reviews Nikki Haley's Debate Performance: a word on Trump too and why chances are that he'll lose to Biden===

Nikki Haley continues to look Good as a Prospective VP Candidate. In this: https://twitter.com/GiancarloSopo/status/1694802983085568003

While De Santis is now top by that Metric of Overall Vote Consideration, Nikki Haley had the largest debate movement (from 30.2% to 46.7%)

"We have to look at the fact that three-quarters of Americans don’t want a rematch between Trump and Biden,” she averred. “And we have to face the fact that Trump is the most disliked politician in America. We can’t win a general election that way.” Maybe Trump is not “the most disliked politician in America,” but if his favorability ratings are any indication, he comes close — certainly more than any other candidate on that debate stage. And when she hit the spin room in the debate’s wake, Haley bravely reminded Republicans that Donald Trump will be too consumed with his upcoming civil and criminal trials to run an effective national campaign. Trump is “going to spend more time in a courtroom next year than he is campaigning,” she said. “We have to be realistic about that.” Haley is absolutely right. GOP voters may be inclined to shoot the messenger, but the circumstances she describes are inevitable now. If Trump is the party’s nominee, they will only frustrate the already difficult task of unseating an incumbent president." https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/08/nikki-haley-treats-you-like-an-adult/ [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 12:37, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:[https://www.leefang.com/p/nikki-haleys-sudden-wealth-rooted Nikki Haley's Sudden Wealth Rooted in Weapons Industry, Pro-War Advocacy Network]. The former U.N. ambassador went from virtually no savings in 2017 to a small fortune in part from defense contracting and war advocacy ties. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:44, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:Now, the only way this can be refuted is to say she lied on disclosure forms. I don't see why another minute should be spent on her. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:47, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:Who cares what her positions or ideology are? She willing it sell it out for money and career advancement. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 12:48, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

===More signs of Momentum Post-Debate: "DeSantis reports raising more than $1 million as Republicans hope for post-debate boosts"===

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) — '''Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis says he got a $1 million cash bump after Wednesday night’s presidential debate.
'''
That amount came in over the first 24 hours after DeSantis and seven other contenders met onstage in Milwaukee, according to his campaign.

In a statement to The Associated Press, campaign manager James Uthmeier said that '''DeSantis “showed Wednesday night that he is a proven leader who will deliver results as president, and we are thrilled with the flood of support we have received since his debate victory.”'''

https://apnews.com/article/republican-debate-2024-campaign-fundraising-8c8e1cc6cf4d0085ba34143c2e09c952 [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 03:51, August 27, 2023 (EDT)

:This reminds me of the Ukraine military occupying territory the Russians vacated as signs of an "offensive", or Biden claiming "jobs growth" for jobs previously lost during the pandemic. Regaining ground you previously lost isn't really "momentum", a "victory", or "growth". [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 13:21, August 27, 2023 (EDT)

=== Hallelujah! Christian Conservative Champion Ron De Santis Gains 8 Points in National Polls post Winning Debate Performance ===

"Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is on the rebound in the race for the White House after his strong showing in this week’s GOP debate, climbing 8 points among Republicans in a new national poll.

The InsiderAdvantage survey of likely Republican primary and caucus voters found the Florida governor at 18% in the GOP presidential contest — a sharp gain from the 10% he notched in the days ahead of Wednesday’s first debate.

Another debate winner was Nikki Haley, the poll showed, who more than doubled her support – from 5% to 11% – on her forceful performance, while biotech millionaire Vivek Ramaswamy held steady at 7%.

“DeSantis performed well in the debate and I think at times looked like the most presidential candidate on the stage,” political consultant Ryan Girdusky said. “The biggest issues Republican voters are thinking about this cycle are crime, immigration, and the economy and on all three issues, DeSantis was far better than the rest of the field.”

https://nypost.com/2023/08/26/ron-desantis-on-the-rebound-as-trump-touts-lead-over-biden/ [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 03:36, August 29, 2023 (EDT)

== Massive 260,000 Russian Losses in 1.5 Years of Putin's War ==

I'd not been following this page for some time, but showed up on my feed today. This page is a Government Account, and it has been consistently and periodically updated from the beginning of the War. It is certainly a Credible Source, though Kremlin-backers won't like it. Of course, if it showed 26,000 instead of 260,000, they might like it, but facts are facts, and facts show Russia is losing many men.

"“People protect what they love.”
Jacques Yves Cousteau

Total combat losses of the enemy from February 24, 2022 to August 25, 2023:" [Image in the Link]

https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1694958363384127781 [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 08:09, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:It's bs. Russia KIA is about 40,000, Ukrainian 180,000+. I'm giving a 4.5 :1 kill ratio, but it's easily 5:1, and realistically more like 7:1.

:Just count the ratio of artillery shells fired, and translate that into deaths for verification. There are other ways, too.

:Since the start of the war, Kyiv has lied (beginning with the ghost of Kyiv). Those casualty figures all come from Kyiv, and repeated unquestioningly by Western MSM. In contrast, Moscow knows it's at a disadvantage in the propaganda war, so it has built and guarded its credibility closely. Moscow reports the casualty figures it gives out on Ukrainian KIA it picks up from front line radio intercepts, and there is no reason to doubt them.
:The Russians are very experienced at war, much more than the West. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 08:18, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
::[https://youtu.be/dOiMePbAJnU Douglas Macgregor - Russia has 750,000 Troops Surrounding The Stronghold.]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 22:49, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
:Again, it's all programmed. Kyiv is losing public support from the West, and the soldiers and public are demoralized. So they have to release these figures in response to the latest CNN poll on American popular support for funding.
:All along, on virtually everything, Kyiv and the West have used projection - ascribing to Russia their own actions and results. There is solid evidence of 260,000 Ukrainians dead and wounded, maybe even twice as much; some now are saying Ukraine has in excess of 200,000 dead. Whatever the kill rate, multiply by 3 or 4 the casualties, most of which are permanent and will never return to combat. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 08:27, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

Russia claimed that before too, but then they did a Major Mobilization. They wouldn't have to do that if they hadn't lost many Soldiers. There's hardly any appetite in Russia for a Further Mobilization. It remains that Putin will, in 1 or 2 years, have to leave Ukraine. It's happened before and no Reason it can't happen again. This doesn't have to break out to WWIII. America left Iraq and both America and Russia left Afghanistan. When Nations realize they can't win, they go home, start over and focus on resolving domestic problems. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 08:28, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

"It seems the Kremlin has largely given up on gathering troops for its war in Ukraine through mobilization. Likely because Russia's leadership remains fearful of a domestic political backlash. Instead, they have been upping efforts in recent months to encourage men to sign up voluntarily and serve as contract soldiers.

That said, Putin is keeping the mobilization option open just in case — his first mobilization decree remains legally in force."

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/06/anything-but-more-mobilization-russias-stealthy-push-to-find-more-soldiers-a80732 [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 08:32, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:Oh yes, the Russian casualty rate has increased in the past 3 or 4 months, true. They lost maybe 24,000 KIA in the first 14 months, and probably 10,000 to 12,000 since May of this year. The Russians have gone from under 100 dead and wounded daily to over 100 this summer; Kyiv right now is losing an average of 700 daily, up from 500 it has been losing since June of 2022 continuously. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 08:39, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:Again ''Moscow Times'' is a CIA front. Please stop posting it. Thanks. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 08:40, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:"It seems the Kremlin has largely given up on gathering troops", ahh, don't think so. They only 700,000 troops standing at the ready just outside the warzone now, and are mobilizing another 1.5 million. Sometime I may go into Russian mobilization processes (think of cellular mitosis).

:Ukraine really only has about a 40,000 man effective fighting force left; it has no reserves. The rest are conscripts of untrained, ill equipped teenage boys and men over 50 who do not want to fight, and the Russians get no joy out of killing as the sadists in NATO and Kyiv keep sending them forward. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 08:46, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

== Huge Decline in the Value of the Russian Ruble: now worth about 1 cent ==

"This is THE INDICATOR FROM PLANET MONEY. I'm Paddy Hirsch.

WAILIN WONG, HOST:

And I'm Wailin Wong. A Russian ruble today is worth about 1 cent. That's the lowest value it's had against the dollar since March of 2022.

HIRSCH: And this is a big deal for the Russian people, right? It means the cost of goods is rising and contributing to overall inflation. It's also a big deal for the Russian government and the central bank because it makes observers think they aren't really capable of controlling their currency. But it's a really big deal for Russia's president, Vladimir Putin."

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/1195733556 [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 10:00, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

When are you going to go home, Vladimir Putin? For the Love of God, stop killing Ukrainians in their Home Country and go back to your own Home, i.e. Russia. Your own people will surely thank you for it later on if you do. If not, Ukrainians will keep fighting for their Country, and Good People everywhere who know it's a Christian and Moral Obligation to assist the defenseless in ways that we can will keep justly condemning it and spreading awareness of your wrongs. Putin has no winning strategy here: economically, the War can only end one way. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 10:03, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
:Oh wow. Now [[NPR]] is going to educate us. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 10:38, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:The global economy is in a transitionary phase that will affect global politics for the next 30 years. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 10:41, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
::The global economy is always changing and transitioning. No breaking news there. Make some actual arguments using evidence and logical arguments. Offering vague generalities and responding to your debate opponents with statements like "meaningless" and "blah blah blah" is totally embarrassing. If you're losing a debate badly, show some dignity and concede or remain silent. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 10:53, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

As for the Economy - this isn't an issue pertaining to the "Global Economy". It's a harmful effect of Putin's Kremlin's War for Russia's

I have a different Vision: It's July 2026. De Santis has won big, America stops promoting the Woke Agenda, and instead promotes Jesus Christ and His Cause of Pro-Life, first in America itself, then around the world beginning with Europe and becomes Righteous again.

Next, as for Russia, which I love, because of its people's love for Jesus and Mary despite some errors, either Putin goes and Navalny or some other Good Leader leads them to friendly relations with America and Europe, or Putin at least withdraws troops, and US-Russia relations improve. Patriarch Kirill has blamed the West for spreading Pro-LGBT Liberal Values, one reason I support a President De Santis who won't. I agree America should not promote Atheistic, Sodomy, Woke, LGBT "Values", and Christian Values instead. I also have pointed out before Pro-Life Americans and Pro-Life Clergy in the Russian Church have worked together before, showing that that is possible. But for that to happen, Russia should go back to its own Vast Territory (it is an Amazingly Large Country), reflect on the War, realize this is what Radical Islamists and other Enemies of Europe and Christendom want, and stop it. Then, Pro-Life Conservatives Universally unite. [[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 10:55, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
:[https://finance.yahoo.com/news/powell-pushes-dollar-longest-weekly-202840455.html Powell Pushes Dollar to Longest Weekly Win Streak in 15 Months]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 18:03, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

Given Russia's small economy, not even 1/10th as Large as America's, it is Anything but Meaningless. It shows the War is not sustainable.[[User:NishantXavier|NishantXavier]][[User talk:NishantXavier|For Christ the King]] 08:33, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

===Personal attack on another editor===
{{Hide collapse
|reason=Personal attack and trolling
|content=::RobSmith's rejoinder: "Meaningless"

::What a sad and pathetic rejoinder. Denialism and [[cognitive dissonance]] is strong in RobSmith. And he is not telling the truth. Russian budget's oil and gas revenues fell by 47% to 3.38 trillion roubles ($37.4 billion) in the first half of the year from the same period in 2022 '''is definitely not meaningless.'''

::And not only oil and gas revenues down, but the ruble has also seen a big decline. So if people pay for Russian gas and oil in rubles, Russia makes less money. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 08:46, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:I just don't have time to go into the exchange rates and the expansion of [[BRICS]] in response to bs Reuters headline. And you, Mr. Geopolitical, expert should be well enough informed with enough brains to figure that out for yourself. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 08:49, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

::Russian funds a LOT of its war effort through the sales of Russian oil and gas. So if its oil and gas revenues have decreased by half in 2023 that is significant. Deny this fact and lose all credibility.

::And on top of this, China buys a significant portion of Russia's oil/gas and China is experiencing more and more economic difficulties. See: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fJSS4_lTqA China is in a heap of economic trouble, says Michelle Caruso-Cabrera] and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cdhz-VRRB_8 Why China Is on the Brink of Its Biggest Crisis in Decades] and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kquW7xzJGGY The Four Big Structural Forces Holding Back China's Economy]. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:00, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
:::[https://cointelegraph.com/news/gold-backed-brics-currency-very-hard-to-deliver-lyn-alden Gold-backed BRICS currency will be ‘very hard’ to deliver: Lyn Alden].

:::“Backing a fractional-reserve banking system with gold only works temporarily, because the currency units multiply more quickly than the gold does".[https://cointelegraph.com/news/gold-backed-brics-currency-very-hard-to-deliver-lyn-alden] [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:04, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
::::The BRICS future expansion is less appealing to Brazil and India because they do not want the BRICS club to be more China-centric due to pro-China members increasing. In addition, Brazil and India do they want BRICS to become a very overt rival to the West, with which they have better relations than do with China or Russia.

::::More importantly, two of the key cornerstone members of BRICS, namely Russia and China, are likely headed for economic decline in coming years and we are seeing signs of the economic decline of these two nations happening right now.

::::I guess you can argue that BRICS Lilliputians will someday overcome the Western Gulliver if BRICS expands, but even if this is true, it will take a long time and it will not happen overnight - especially with the BRICS two key members of China and Russia likely experiencing big financial problems in the future.

::::And the USA is a lot more dynamic than Europe so even if the West declines, this doesn't mean that the USA will decline as the USA could strengthen its economic and diplomatic ties outside of Europe. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:25, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:::::bla bla bla. Take two minutes to prove you have any understanding about anything other than spamming talk pages with nonsense and maybe I'll read it. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:36, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:[https://rumble.com/v38htg9-inhuman-experiments-carried-out-by-ukrainian-doctors-in-a-maternity-hospita.html Add this to one of your propaganda Essays, and tell me why YouTube censors it]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:48, August 25, 2023 (EDT)

:[https://rumble.com/v39m2zp-one-year-on-since-the-murder-of-daria-dugina.html or this one. Mike Jones is speaking directly to you]. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 09:50, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
::Saying "meaningless" to NishantXavier and "blah blah blah" to me are not evidential and reasonable arguments. You have been utterly defeated and have crawled into your "[https://www.flickr.com/photos/shell_belle/1123262803/ intellectual bunny hole]". [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 09:54, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
:::bla bla bla. Meaningless. Ole Ole Ole. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 19:22, August 25, 2023 (EDT)}}
::::NishantXavier, do you think the ruble will go lower? If so, how long do you think the ruble will go? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]])
[[File:Ruble 8-26-2023.jpg|thumbnail|center|1000px|Chart of the currency exchange between the Russian ruble to dollars from December 5, 2003 to August 26, 2023]]
{{Clear}}
[https://www.marketwatch.com/story/russian-ruble-slides-to-16-month-low-against-u-s-dollar-as-capital-flight-shrinking-trade-surplus-bite-90c2cfbc?mod=search_headline Russian ruble slides to 16-month low against U.S. dollar as capital flight, shrinking trade surplus bite], Marketwatch, August 14, 2023

There's no telling on how low the Russian ruble may go as the war in Ukraine drags on. [[John Joseph Mearsheimer]] thinks the war could drag on for a very a long time. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] ([[User talk:Conservative|talk]]) 01:12, August 26, 2023 (EDT)

[[File:How long will the war in Ukraine last..PNG]]
[[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 01:21, August 26, 2023 (EDT)

== A pervert's map of America ==

[[File:How trannies see America.png|thumb|right|thumb|right|Florida has been getting pretty rough on trannies lately, according to this map.]]Have you ever wondered what perverts think of America? Me neither! As far as I am concerned, they can take it to Russia if they don't like it. But they want to tell us all about it anyway. Here is a map from "[https://jacobin.com/2023/08/transphobia-us-state-legislation-migration Anti-Trans Bills Are Sweeping the US]" in ''Jacobin.'' The takeaway is that perverts don't like Florida Governor Ron DeSantis for some reason. In fact, his state is in whole other category. [[User:PeterKa|PeterKa]] ([[User talk:PeterKa|talk]]) 21:12, August 25, 2023 (EDT)
:This map belongs in his bio, with a blurb to add context. He may use it to boost his campaign. [[User:RobSmith|RobS]][[User talk:RobSmith|''Give Peace a Chance!'']] 21:49, August 25, 2023 (EDT)