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User talk:Andreacc

2013-02-09T19:42:22Z

Andreacc:

== Cafeteria Catholic ==

Please take a moment to familiarize yourself with our [[Conservapedia:Commandments|Commandments]], in particular the First Commandment: "Everything you post must be true and verifiable." Please keep these Commandments in mind, and refrain from adding false information to pages, as you did in [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Cafeteria_Catholic&curid=70448&diff=1033697&oldid=983235 these] [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Cafeteria_Catholic&curid=70448&diff=1033699&oldid=1033697 edits]. Thanks, [[User:GregG|GregG]] 13:29, 9 February 2013 (EST)

On the "Cafeteria Catholic" page.

Here are references for the claims.

'''I wrote:''' "contrary to popular belief, it is mandatory for a catholic to be in favor of the death penalty, as expressed in the cathecism and catholic teology. "

'''References:'''

''"The power of life and death is permitted to certain civil magistrates because theirs is the responsibility under law to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. Far from being guilty of breaking this commandment [Thy shall not kill], such an execution of justice is precisely an act of obedience to it. For the purpose of the law is to protect and foster human life. This purpose is fulfilled when the legitimate authority of the State is exercised by taking the guilty lives of those who have taken innocent lives."'' '''Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent, 1566, Part III, 5, n. 4'''

''"It is lawful to kill when fighting in a just war; when carrying out by order of the Supreme Authority a sentence of death in punishment of a crime; and, finally, in cases of necessary and lawful defense of one’s own life against an unjust aggressor."'' '''CATECHISM OF ST. PIUS X, On the Commandments of God and of the Church, The Fifth Commandment'''

''"The same divine law which forbids the killing of a human being allows certain exceptions, as when God authorizes killing by a general law or when He gives an explicit commission to an individual for a limited time. Since the agent of authority is but a sword in the hand, and is not responsible for the killing, it is in no way contrary to the commandment, “Thou shalt not kill” to wage war at God's bidding, or for the representatives of the State's authority to put criminals to death, according to law or the rule of rational justice."'' '''St. Augustine, The City of God'''

''"Wherefore if forgers of money and other evil-doers are forthwith condemned to death by the secular authority, much more reason is there for heretics, as soon as they are convicted of heresy, to be not only excommunicated but even put to death."'' '''Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, part II, Q 11, art. 3'''

''"The life of certain pestiferous men is an impediment to the common good which is the concord of human society. Therefore, certain men must be removed by death from the society of men.... Therefore, the ruler of a state executes pestiferous men justly and sinlessly in order that the peace of the state may not be disrupted...."'' '''Thomas Aquinas, Summa Contra Gentiles, Book III, ch. 146'''

''"If a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and advantageous that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good, since 'a little leaven corrupteth the whole lump' (I Cor. 5:6)"'' '''Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theolologiae, part II, q. 64, art. 2.'''

'''I wrote:''' "The Church itself, including many of its Saints, condemned a lot of criminals to death along the centuries."

'''References:'''
According to Wikipedia, ''"Italian historian Andrea Del Col estimates that out of 51,000 — 75,000 cases judged by Inquisition in Italy after 1542 around 1,250 resulted in a death sentence."'', '''Andrea Del Col: L'Inquisizione in Italia. Milano: Oscar Mondadori, 2010, pp. 779-780'''

Some Saints that were Inquisitors:
Pius V;
Peter of Verona;
Pedro de Arbués

'''I wrote:''' The biggest peril to Cafeteria Catholics is to incur in automatic excommunication, or "latae sententiae" excommunication, which results in eternal damnation in hell. Among other reasons, abortion, heresy and apostasy are some that results in this kind of excommunication from the Church.

Reasons for latae sententiae excommunication can be found on '''Code of Canon Law, BOOK VI'''

'''I wrote:''' According to encyclical "Divini Redemptoris" and edict "DECRETUM CONTRA COMMUNISMUM" by Pope Pius XII, it is declared that catholics that "openly declare the materialistic and anti-Christian doctrine of the communists, and especially (...) defend or propagate them" are to be considered apostates and incur in automatic excommunication, no longer being part of the Church. Pope John XXIII, in 1959, confirmed this position of the Church and further declared that "catholics are not allowed to (in elections) give their votes to parties or candidates that, even not proclaiming themselves communists, support this ideology".

'''References:'''

''"Q. 1 Utrum licitum sit, partibus communistarum nomen dare vel eisdem favorem praestare.
[Is it lawful to provide for the communist parties?]
R. Negative: Communismum enim est materialisticus et antichristianus; communistarum autem duces, etsi verbis quandoque profitentur se religionem non oppugnare, se tamen, sive doctrina sive actione, Deo veraeque religioni et Ecclesia Christi sere infensos esse ostendunt.

Q. 2 Utrum licitum sit edere, propagare vel legere libros, periodica, diaria vel folia, qual doctrine vel actioni communistarum patrocinantur, vel in eis scribere.
[Is it lawful to publish, disseminate or read books, newspapers or leaves that defend the action or the doctrine of the communists, or write them?]
R. Negative: Prohibentur enim ipso iure

Q. 3 Utrum Christifideles, qui actus, de quibus in n.1 et 2, scienter et libere posuerint, ad sacramenta admitti possint.
[If Christians consciously and freely realize the shares in accordance with paragraphs 1 and 2 may be admitted to the sacraments?]
R. Negative, secundum ordinaria principia de sacramentis denegandis iis, Qui non sunt dispositi

Q. 4 Utrum Christifideles, Qui communistarum doctrinam materialisticam et anti Christianam profitentur, et in primis, Qui eam defendunt vel propagant, ipso facto, tamquan apostatae a fide catholica, incurrant in excommunicationem speciali modo Sedi Apostolicae reservatam.
[If Christ's faithful, who openly declare the materialistic and anti-Christian doctrine of the communists, and especially defend or propagate them, fall "ipso facto" in excommunication ("speciali mode") reserved to the Apostolic See?]
R. Affirmative"''

'''DECRETUM CONTRA COMMUNISMUM, HOLY OFFICE DECREE, june 28, 1949, AAS 41 (1949) 334'''

''"Qu.: Utrum catholicis civibus in eligendis populi oratoribus liceat suffragium dare iis partibus vel candidatis, qui, etsi principia catholicae doctrinae opposita non profiteantur, immo etiam christianum nomen sibi assumant, re tamem communistis sociantur et sua agendi ratione iisdem favent.
[Is it lawful for Catholic citizens, in the election of the representatives of the people, giving the vote to those parties or candidates who, although not profess principles contrary to Catholic doctrine, and even attach the Christian name, in fact nevertheless are associated with Communists and favor with their way of acting?]

Resp. (confirmata a Summo Pontifice, 2. Apr.): Negative, ad normam Decreti S. Officii 1. Iul. 1949, n. 1."''

'''Response of the Holy Office, March 25, 1959 , AAS 51 (1959) 271s'''

'''I wrote:''' Therefore, it's prohibited for a catholic to vote on the Democratic Party, or on Obama.

'''Reference:''' Logic, as The Democrat Party supports communism.

Cafeteria Catholic

2013-02-09T18:03:41Z

Andreacc:

A '''Cafeteria Catholic,''' '''Catholic in name only,''' or '''C&E Catholic (Christmas & Easter only Catholic)''' is someone who self-identifies as a member of the [[Roman Catholic church]] and yet picks and chooses which of the Church's doctrines to believe. In particular, those terms are often used to refer to a self-identified Catholic who rejects the Vatican's instructions, Canon law and Papal Encyclicals directing Catholics to abhor [[abortion]] as murder.

Catholic [[Democrats]] may be associated with Cafeteria Catholics because their party ideology believes in [[abortion]] as a right and also in gay [[marriage]]. This is in direct opposition to what Catholics are taught. Those who oppose capital punishment are also considered Cafeteria Catholics as, contrary to popular belief, it is mandatory for a catholic to be in favor of the death penalty, as expressed in the cathecism and catholic teology. The Church itself, including many of its Saints, condemned a lot of criminals to death along the centuries.

The biggest peril to Cafeteria Catholics is to incur in automatic excommunication, or "latae sententiae" excommunication, which results in eternal damnation in hell. Among other reasons, abortion, heresy and apostasy are some that results in this kind of excommunication from the Church. According to encyclical "Divini Redemptoris" and edict "DECRETUM CONTRA COMMUNISMUM" by Pope Pius XII, it is declared that catholics that "openly declare the materialistic and anti-Christian doctrine of the communists, and especially (...) defend or propagate them" are to be considered apostates and incur in automatic excommunication, no longer being part of the Church. Pope John XXIII, in 1959, confirmed this position of the Church and further declared that "catholics are not allowed to (in elections) give their votes to parties or candidates that, even not proclaiming themselves communists, support this ideology". Therefore, it's prohibited for a catholic to vote on the Democratic Party, or on Obama.

Other examples of the pick-and-choose approach include Catholics who deny there is a [[Hell]], deny the miracle of transubstantiation and the place of the eucharist as the most important of the seven sacraments,<ref>Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:14-20; John 6:53–58; Code of Canon Law of 1983 1396</ref>, deny that [[Mary]] was Immaculate,<ref>Encyclical Munificentissimus Deus, etc.</ref>, deny fundamental church teachings regarding the origin of life, or deny other core teachings of the Church (apostasy).<ref>Encyclical Sapaentiae Christianae: "to refuse to believe in any one of [dogmas of the Church] is equivalent to rejecting all of them."</ref> By Canon law, a Catholic believing contrary to certain truths taught by the Universal, Ordinary and Solemn Magisteria may be guilty of [[heresy]] or worse, apostasy, and should not take [[Holy Communion]]. These truths are not defined in a single teaching and may be difficult to discern, which is a false conundrum cafeteria Catholics rely on to deny faith rather than learn and explore. Some Cafeteria Catholics ignore this and take Communion anyway, which is a Mortal [[Sin]]. The Church believes that such a person is separated from the [[Holy Spirit]], even without direct [[excommunication]] from Church authorities. Alternatively, some cafeteria Catholics are very sensitive to the difficulty their compromised faith presents and in picking and choosing which sacraments and Canons to honor may abstain from defiling the eucharist by feasting in a state of sin.

An extreme form of a cafeteria Catholic is a '''cultural Catholic'''. A cultural Catholic is someone who has a strong emotional attachment to Catholic social and cultural identity, but who does not understand Catholicism and does not seriously follow its ethical teaching. The majority of Catholics in the world are believed to be cultural Catholics.<ref>[http://withchrist.org/catholic.htm#Cultural Who Is a Roman Catholic? Cultural Catholics]</ref> Divorce and abortion rates among Catholics are identical to the secular society as a whole, showcasing the effects of the Cultural Catholic.

==Examples==
*[[Joe Biden]]
*[[Geraldine Ferraro]]
*[[Michael Castle]]
*[[Chris Christie]]
*[[Stephen Colbert]]
*[[Rudy Giuliani]]
*[[Sean Hannity]]
*[[Joe Kennedy]]
*[[Ted Kennedy]]
*[[John Kerry]]
*[[Michael Moore]]
*[[George Pataki]]
*[[Nancy Pelosi]]
*[[Charles Rangel]]
*Dan Rooney
*[[Andrew Cuomo]]
*[[Martin Scorsese]]
*[[Chris Matthews]]

==References==
<references/>

==See also==
*[[Cafeteria Christianity]]
*[[Catholics for Obama]]
*[[Republican in name only]]

[[category:idioms]]
[[category:Catholic Church]]

Cafeteria Catholic

2013-02-09T17:41:47Z

Andreacc:

A '''Cafeteria Catholic,''' '''Catholic in name only,''' or '''C&E Catholic (Christmas & Easter only Catholic)''' is someone who self-identifies as a member of the [[Roman Catholic church]] and yet picks and chooses which of the Church's doctrines to believe. In particular, those terms are often used to refer to a self-identified Catholic who rejects the Vatican's instructions, Canon law and Papal Encyclicals directing Catholics to abhor [[abortion]] as murder.

Catholic [[Democrats]] may be associated with Cafeteria Catholics because their party ideology believes in [[abortion]] as a right and also in gay [[marriage]]. This is in direct opposition to what Catholics are taught. Those who oppose capital punishment are also considered Cafeteria Catholics, as contrary to popular belief, it is mandatory for a catholic to be in favor of the death penalty, as expressed in the cathecism and catholic teology.

Other examples of the pick-and-choose approach include Catholics who deny there is a [[Hell]], deny the miracle of transubstantiation and the place of the eucharist as the most important of the seven sacraments,<ref>Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:14-20; John 6:53–58; Code of Canon Law of 1983 1396</ref>, deny that [[Mary]] was Immaculate,<ref>Encyclical Munificentissimus Deus, etc.</ref>, deny fundamental church teachings regarding the origin of life, or deny other core teachings of the Church (apostasy).<ref>Encyclical Sapaentiae Christianae: "to refuse to believe in any one of [dogmas of the Church] is equivalent to rejecting all of them."</ref> By Canon law, a Catholic believing contrary to certain truths taught by the Universal, Ordinary and Solemn Magisteria may be guilty of [[heresy]] or worse, apostasy, and should not take [[Holy Communion]]. These truths are not defined in a single teaching and may be difficult to discern, which is a false conundrum cafeteria Catholics rely on to deny faith rather than learn and explore. Some Cafeteria Catholics ignore this and take Communion anyway, which is a Mortal [[Sin]]. The Church believes that such a person is separated from the [[Holy Spirit]], even without direct [[excommunication]] from Church authorities. Alternatively, some cafeteria Catholics are very sensitive to the difficulty their compromised faith presents and in picking and choosing which sacraments and Canons to honor may abstain from defiling the eucharist by feasting in a state of sin.

An extreme form of a cafeteria Catholic is a '''cultural Catholic'''. A cultural Catholic is someone who has a strong emotional attachment to Catholic social and cultural identity, but who does not understand Catholicism and does not seriously follow its ethical teaching. The majority of Catholics in the world are believed to be cultural Catholics.<ref>[http://withchrist.org/catholic.htm#Cultural Who Is a Roman Catholic? Cultural Catholics]</ref> Divorce and abortion rates among Catholics are identical to the secular society as a whole, showcasing the effects of the Cultural Catholic.

==Examples==
*[[Joe Biden]]
*[[Geraldine Ferraro]]
*[[Michael Castle]]
*[[Chris Christie]]
*[[Stephen Colbert]]
*[[Rudy Giuliani]]
*[[Sean Hannity]]
*[[Joe Kennedy]]
*[[Ted Kennedy]]
*[[John Kerry]]
*[[Michael Moore]]
*[[George Pataki]]
*[[Nancy Pelosi]]
*[[Charles Rangel]]
*Dan Rooney
*[[Andrew Cuomo]]
*[[Martin Scorsese]]
*[[Chris Matthews]]

==References==
<references/>

==See also==
*[[Cafeteria Christianity]]
*[[Catholics for Obama]]
*[[Republican in name only]]

[[category:idioms]]
[[category:Catholic Church]]

Talk:Pro-life

2012-04-13T16:20:53Z

Andreacc: /* The catholic church is not against death penalty */ new section

__TOC__
==
Could someone please explain ''why'' the reason for the term "pro-life" is "liberal bias"? Especially when said reason (life begins at conception) is surely in accordiace with Conservapedia thinking?
[[User:G7mzh|G7mzh]] 11:39, 14 August 2007 (EDT)

The claim that the Democratic party wishes to have no legal restrictions placed on abortion is just plain wrong. [[User:Alloco1|Alloco1]] 18:17, 30 September 2007 (EDT)

No mention of abortion clinic bombings/car-into-smashings? [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 23:23, 26 January 2008 (EST)

"Pro-Abortion"? Come on now, please. That's just offensive. Most Liberals are as "pro-abortion" as most Conservatives are "pro-crusading". Can the statement regarding that please be revised? Thinking that Liberals enjoy killing babies is disgustingly ignorant. [[User:VonShroom|VonShroom]] 16:49, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:Then what are these people doing? Are they removing mere lumps of flesh? We say they are killing babies, which is exactly the case, and the "pro-abortion" crowd is working tooth and nail to defend that very thing. THAT is the offensive part. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 17:17, 3 March 2008 (EST)
::I'm sorry, but I prefer to consider myself and my peers as "pro-choice", because it sums up my beliefs. I do not ''enjoy killing babies'', I simply agree with a woman's right to chose. Chosing to have an abortion or not could be the most difficult decision a human being could possibly make, and under most circumstances, I do not agree with it. But I think that the foster care system is broken, and that the child would not be given a proper, fair, or quality chance at life. I don't think that people sitting in a large room in Washington have a right to tell a woman what to do regarding the most important part of her life.
::Most (''and I mean nearly all'') people who are not "pro-life" are "pro-choice". They do not like abortions, but believe that it is not their place to make the decision. I just do not think that the statement about "pro-abortion" vs. "pro-choice" is appropriate.
:::The point is, when that certain someone who is pro-choice excercises that choice, a dead baby is the result each and every time. The baby has no choice, no right to choose, no right to live at all. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 23:17, 3 March 2008 (EST)
::::Of course, liberals dispute that the life of the fetus begins at conception. This seems to be an intransigent point on both sides, as for one side it's religious, and for the other, it's scientific. I respect both positions (I myself am pro-choice) and I can't say that characterizing one's opposition pejoratively is a civil debate tactic.-[[User:PhoenixWright|PhoenixWright]] 23:24, 3 March 2008 (EST)
:::::Ok, so we disagree, I understand. I would just like to know if it would be ok to reword the section regarding the "pro-abortion" statement. I find it offensive and not an appropriate way to prove your point.[[User:VonShroom|VonShroom]] 13:57, 5 March 2008 (EST)
== Remove statement? ==

Can the following statement be removed?
:"Due to rulings by the [[U.S. Supreme Court]], the [[United States]] allows abortions at virtually any time in pregnancy. Many state [[government]]s even pay for abortions using taxpayer dollars."
It would be relevant to the [[abortion]] article, but I don't see the relation to "pro-life". [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 20:51, 14 February 2008 (EST)

== Edit war ==

Can we have some explanations about the edit war? I agree with the last edit, which was reverted (see above). As for what the SC cases actually said, why don't we find a reference either way instead of just reverting each other. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:48, 18 February 2008 (EST)

== The catholic church is not against death penalty ==

Cathecism:

"Preserving the common good of society requires that the offender be deprived of the possibilities of harming someone. In this respect, the traditional teaching of the Church has recognized as a fundamental right and duty of legitimate public authority to inflict punishment proportionate to the gravity of the crimes, not excluding, in cases of extreme gravity, THE DEATH PENALTY"