Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Debate:Should RobS lose his Sysop rights?

2011-08-01T01:58:53Z

Ameda: /* Nay */

<center>'''Uhhh, this really isn't a debate. It's a poll. In response to [[User:Conservative]] pressuring the site owner to abandon established site policies and invoke [[mob rule]], please indicate your votes below.'''</center><center>''Note:User participation here will be exempt from the 90/10 rule, however there's no guarantee you may not suffer a reprisal block for participating. I will however do whatever I can to help if that were to happen.''</center>
[[Category:Conservapedia Debates]]

(To make the vote count accurate, I'm adding some votes that have been cast [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk%3AAschlafly&action=historysubmit&diff=895426&oldid=895420 elsewhere]. I invite anyone I've listed to add a comment by their name. --[[User:MarkGall|MarkGall]] 15:11, 31 July 2011 (EDT))

(I have removed those votes. If people want to add their names then they can do so themselves. It is highly presumptuous for you to add someone else's name to this list. They may not wish to take part in this vote at all. --[[User:JarradD|JarradD]] 17:19, 31 July 2011 (EDT))

(Note also: Only actual signed votes by actual registered users carry any weight. Statements that some unidentified person has privately supported one's position by email carry no weight. Note also that sockpuppets are strictly forbidden at Conservapedia, and that "checkuser" is used to discover violations. --[[User:SamHB|SamHB]] 15:18, 31 July 2011 (EDT))

==Yea==

#Yea. User:RobSmith's plans will not be good for this website. [[User:Bclough|Bclough]] 16:10, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Yea. I never had a problem with RobS until he went after [[User:Conservative]]. [[User:Conservative]] is the lifeblood of this site. Without him, CP dies. [[Essay: User:Conservative, what is best in life?|What is best in life?]] Getting rid of RobS. --[[User:FergusE|FergusE]] 16:30, 31 July 2011 (EDT)

==Nay==

#I vote '''nay'''. RobS is trying to bring accountability to the site. There is something admirable in that, and it's a move in the right direction. [[User:KBarnett|—KBarnett ]] 14:56, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#RobS should keep his rights. If anything, Conservative should lose his. [[User:JonS|JonS]] 15:00, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. I can't see a reason why RobS should lose his rights, especially when there are others who seem to actively be harming the site through their actions.--[[User:MRellek|MRellek]] 15:03, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Obvious '''nay''' for obvious reasons. We need to put an end to arbitrary block times and the constant history deletion of pages (such as the ''Community Portal'') at the very least. As long as the sysops have the right to do whatever they please (while subjecting regular users to rules that are much stricter than for example Wikipedia's policies), the community won't grow and will forever be a paradise for parodists. --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 15:04, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#I vote no. I haven't been around in quite some time, but I used to be a fairly active user (with block rights etc) and left in part because of some of the same issues RobS has addressed. I too believe these "reforms" are necessary for the site to move forward, and may return to active participation if something along these lines is enacted. --[[User:MarkGall|MarkGall]] 15:08, 31 July 2011 (EDT) (editing while traveling, please don't ban me for the IP change!) (PS: can some sysop fix the spelling of this page?)
#Obvious '''nay''', for all the reasons that have been discussed, by many people, here and elsewhere. --[[User:SamHB|SamHB]] 15:18, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. I'm not well versed in this discussion nor this site, but even after wading through the community portal, it's not clearly expressed what RobS has done incorrectly that violates the policy of the site. If anything, this seems more a grudge match, something in between a tit-for-tat and a vendetta. Is Conservapedia really at a point at which ideas for the site can't be discussed? [[User:IanR|IanR]] 15:22, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#As strong of a '''nay''' as one could possibly nay [[User:TerryB|TerryB]] 15:22, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay, in the strongest possible terms. If those in power are held to the rules that others must follow then a just society will always emerge. If, however, those in authority are allowed to run rampage unchecked, then [http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=327929 this] is the inevitable result. Chaos, corruption and an organisation that can no longer function.--[[User:IeuanApGriffith|IeuanApGriffith]] 15:34, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. The only thing that will save this wiki as a conservative sight on the internet is Robs's proposals. Lose them and this wiki will go the way TK wanted. Rein in conservative and karajou and this project may JUST be saved. [[User:Davidspencer|Davidspencer]] 15:37, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#RobS is a reasonable fellow and is only trying to improve the wiki. He is the only sysop campaigning in the face of User:conservative's abusive habits of shutting down discussion by
#*locking talk pages (including his own)
#*deleting and using oversight on talk pages to remove criticism of him
#*blocking people that disagree with him
#:As a result of this, User:conservative has become quite upset at being called out and instead of changing his ways is lashing out at RobS- which normally works fine except that RobS is also a sysop and thus can unblock himself and restore commentary. Worst of all RobS is capable of committing the horrific crime of posting on User:conservative's talk page.
#:It is in Conservapedia's best interests to let Rob keep his rights and march by his side as he strives to improve the community and its interactions.--[[User:CamilleT|CamilleT]] 15:59, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. RobS is working to improve the site (while keeping its conservative POV), Conservative to protect his petty fiefdom. [[User:GuidoF|Guy]][[User_talk:GuidoF|message me]] 16:09, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. This has gone too far. [[User:WesleyS|WesleyS]][[User Talk:WesleyS|Hello!]] 16:59, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. If Rob were to lose his rights it would be a victory for the parodists and the bullies. --[[User:JarradD|JarradD]] 17:14, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#There needs to be some sysop accountability. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 17:25, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Definitely not. RobS: Reasonable sysop who is trying to bring some accountability and respect. Conserative: An internet bully, who populates the site with substandard quote mined insults written in crude inelegant language. --[[User:Orsay|Orsay]] 17:54, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. I know I said I wouldn't edit this site again following its exploitation of recent events, but for this purpose I will briefly renege on that. RobSmith is the only sysop who is making a concerted effort to improve this site by implementing a set of coherent policies. His opponents are those who have most frequently abused their rights as sysops. Most notable among these is User: Conservative, whose numerous talk page comments and 'essays' are, if not parody, then a genuine cause for concern, and I would in all seriousness advise his fellow sysops to discretely speak with this user regarding this matter. The other vocal opponent of RobSmith is FergusE, who is very clearly a parodist here only to stir things up. [[User:WilliamB1|WilliamB1]] 18:41, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#I think it is wrong for one sysop to openly campaign against another, especially when it is based on the other only wanting to help the site. As conservatives we should expect accountability and transparency from those who run the site in the same way that we expect it of our government. The wielding of anonymous and unaccountable power is what one expects from Marxists. [[User:KarenWu|KarenWu]] 19:40, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. As far as I can see, Rob hasn't done anything to merit losing his Sysop rights. --[[User:MatthewQ|MatthewQ]] 19:53, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. This site needs more like Rob. [[User:EricAlstrom|EricAlstrom]] 20:12, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. The only people who actually support Conservative's articles and "essays" are trolls, vandals, and sockpuppets. Conservative has truly contributed NOTHING of value or quality to the site, and what little he has contributed does nothing but attract vandals and parodists. Conversely, RobS wants to hold sysops accountable for their actions and fix the ban policies. Of course Conservative wants RobS to lose his sysop rights, otherwise Conservative couldn't continue to undermine this site from within with his awful essays and poorly researched, shoddy articles. Conservative only cares about his own power, even if that means turning this site into a caricature of conservatism and his own personal blog/echo chamber.[[User:FCapra|FCapra]] 21:23, 31 July 2011 (EDT)
#Nay. RobS is one of the few people on here in power who is consistently calling for sysop accountability, something that is vital to a collaborative project like this. While I certainly do not support everything he does on here, not including this current issue, it is night and day compared to the nothingness that Conservative and his "articles" bring to this encyclopedia. This is a case of sour grapes from Conservative since he is the main culprit of sysop abuse currently. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 21:58, 31 July 2011 (EDT)

Counterexamples to an Old Earth

2011-06-27T21:44:48Z

Ameda: Undo revision 883562 by Truediesel (talk)

It takes only one "counterexample" to disprove the theory of an [[Old Earth]].<ref>Most of the "evidence" for an [[Old Earth]] is based on claims that lack testability, as in [[radiometric dating]], and hence would not even satisfy minimum requirements for admissibility in court.</ref> As with any logical proposition, one contradiction disproves the proposed rule. If each of 34 counterexamples has merely a 10% chance of being valid -- an underestimate -- then the probability that the Earth is billions of years old is less than 3.8%. With the total of these counterexamples at 34, '''they demonstrate that the Earth must be young with a likelihood of greater than 96%'''. The same analysis can be applied to the [[Young Earth]] theory, but no valid counterexamples have been found in centuries of atheist attempts.

The motivation for [[atheist]]s to insist on falsely teaching that the Earth is old is to pull students away from [[God]]'s immediate presence, and to turn them away from [[Jesus Christ]]. Also, they are motivated, and biased, by the fact that their [[evolutionism|evolutionist]] theories require a world which is billions of years old.

== Counterexamples ==
The growing list of counterexamples to the theory of an [[Old Earth]] includes:

=== Astronomy ===
# The [[moon|Moon's]] orbit is a very strong counterxample: The moon is receding from the [[Earth]] at a rate<ref>"Measurements show that the Moon is receding from Earth at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year." [http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhelp/ApolloLaser.html Measuring the Moon's Distance] ''Apollo Laser Ranging Experiments Yield Results'' by Fred Espenak, GSFC Planetary Systems Laboratory (LPI Bulletin, No. 72, August, 1994).</ref> that would have placed it too close to the Earth merely four billion years ago, causing instability in its orbit, tidal catastrophes on Earth, and other problems that would have prevented the Earth and the Moon being as they are today. Additionally, the [[moon]]'s orbit is becoming increasingly and unexpectedly eccentric, suggesting a lack of long-term stability.<ref>http://arxiv.org/abs/1102.0212</ref> This disproves the theory of an [[Old Earth]] even further.
# [[Spiral galaxies]] appear to be young, and only implausible proposals of the existence of [[dark matter]] can reconcile the spirals with a belief in an old universe.
# The planetary orbits in the Solar System - including Earth's - are unstable and unsustainable over the long periods claimed by Old Earth believers.<ref>[http://www.newsweek.com/id/201582 Newsweek: "An embarrassing little secret of astronomy ...."]. (Newsweek has inexplicably taken down its article, but it is quoted by Google and other links)</ref><ref>[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v459/n7248/full/nature08096.html Existence of collisional trajectories of Mercury, Mars and Venus with the Earth] by J. Laskar & M. Gastineau, ''Nature'' 459, 817-819 (11 June 2009). Believers in an Old Earth speculate that the instability would not result in problems in a billion years, but other computer simulations could be developed to demonstrate multi-body instability for the solar system far more recent than that.</ref>
# At least one [[spiral galaxy]] spins in the direction opposite to the spin of its tail, suggesting an age too young to have generated the tail and contradicting the theory that the tails of spiral galaxies were formed over a long period of time.<ref>[http://www.unisci.com/stories/20021/0207023.htm "Hubble Shows Galaxy Rotating In The Wrong Direction"]</ref>
# The primary reaction in the [[Sun]] is the fusing of [[hydrogen]] to make [[helium]], but the ratio of these remains is too high for the Sun to have been burning for millions of years.

=== Biology ===
# The intelligence of humans is rapidly declining, whether measured by SAT scores,<ref>SAT scores have been rapidly decreasing in real terms.</ref> music, personal letters,<ref>E.g., Civil War letters.</ref> quality of political debates,<ref>E.g., contrast the Lincoln-Douglas debates with debates today.</ref> the quality of news articles,<ref>''The Federalist'' was written for the newspaper audience in the late 1780s, but is far too intellectual for newspapers today.</ref> and many other measures.
# The age of onset of [[puberty|sexual maturity]] is rapidly changing, suggesting that life is in a short-term rather than long-term equilibrium.<ref>For evidence of a rapidly changing age for sexual maturity in fish, see http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/3/235</ref>
# The high observed rate of [[extinctions of species]]<ref>[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-26/animals-face-extinction-threat-as-conservation-efforts-slow-report-says.html One in five species are at risk of extinction]</ref> and harmful [[genetic mutation]]s suggest a relatively short period for the existence of life rather than a long one.
# The age of onset of graying of hair or balding is rapidly decreasing, with many teenagers now experiencing baldness or premature graying ([[CNN]]'s [[Anderson Cooper]] began graying as a teenager and was fully gray long before age 40);<ref name="Graying">http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-06-18/living/17299704_1_hair-taylor-hicks-american-idol</ref> many celebrities (such as [[American Idol]] winner Taylor Hicks graying in his 20s)<ref name="Graying"/> and athletes (such as Cal Ripken, Jr. graying and balding in his mid-30s)<ref>"There's a man, close-cropped gray hair, looks older than 35": Sports Illustrated's description of Cal Ripken at 35. [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1163438/index.htm#ixzz12ONbgydd] By age 50 he was bald too.</ref> increasingly experience premature graying or balding.
# The age of onset of [[cancer]] is markedly decreasing,<ref>http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/109865519/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0</ref> suggesting rapid changes inconsistent with an alleged long existence to life.
# The oldest direct evidence of life -- written documents, clothing, remnants of civilizations, tree rings, etc. -- is no older than about 3000 B.C.
# The number of natural, pure-bred bred dogs declines over time as dogs naturally crossbreed; a short period of time is suggested by the fact that there are over 100 different natural, pure breeds of dog thriving today.
# Lack of genetic diversity among the ''Homo sapiens'' species. Were evolution and the old earth true, the human population would show a much larger genetic variance.<ref>http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/descent.html#rpafAHIwKHS7</ref>
# Frequent occurrences of massive deaths of birds and fish, which if extrapolated over millions of years would result in little or no such life today.<ref>http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/technology&id=7884786</ref>
# The separation between salt and freshwater fish, coupled with their inability to survive in the opposing environment not only suggests a global flood but also shows that evolution has not allowed them to spread further than ever intended

=== Geology ===
[[Image:516XZRGNCKL AA240 .jpg|right|300px]]
[[William R. Corliss]] is a cataloger of scientific [[Anomaly|anomalies]] (observations and facts that challenge prevailing scientific [[paradigm]]s) and has published many works on the subject.<ref name="sf">[http://www.science-frontiers.com/ Science Frontiers] (Corliss' web-site)</ref>
He also wrote 13 books for the [[National Aeronautics and Space Administration]] (NASA), a dozen educational booklets for the [[Atomic Energy Commission]] (AEC), and a dozen articles for the [[National Science Foundation]] (NSF). <ref>Corliss, 2002</ref> The science magazine ''[[New Scientist]]'' had an article which focused on the career of William Corliss.<ref>Adrian Hope, ''Finding a Home for Stray Fact'', New Scientist, July 14, 1977, p. 83</ref>
''New Scientist'' wrote regarding Corliss's work: "All I can say to Corliss is carry on cataloging". <ref>Quoted on the [http://www.science-frontiers.com/sourcebk.htm Science Frontiers web-site]</ref> [[Arthur C. Clarke]] described Corliss as "[[Charles Fort|Fort]]'s latter-day - and much more scientific - successor."<ref>Clarke, Arthur C. (1990) ''Astounding Days: A Science Fictional Autobiography''. Gollancz. Page 110</ref>

Corliss's work on geological anomalies catalogs scores of anomalies which challenge the [[old-Earth]] [[paradigm]].<ref>[http://www.science-frontiers.com/sourcebk.htm#Geology Geological Catalogs] (Science Frontiers)</ref>

Other examples include:

# The continued existence of fragile natural arches without having collapsed a short time period for erosion and stresses on them.<ref>http://www.naturalarches.org/big9.htm</ref>
# An extrapolation of time between the collapse of weaker arches<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081102290.html</ref> with still-standing stronger arches supports a young earth age.
# The massive [[Great Lakes]] and freshwater lakes near the equator could not exist for millions of years, and several of these lakes are rapidly receding in volume; the third largest saltwater lake, Oroumieh Lake, could completely evaporate within the next five years.<ref>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110525/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_environmental_disaster</ref>
# The existence of inland saltwater lakes at high altitudes, such as [[Mono Lake]] and the [[Great Salt Lake]], suggest a recent global [[flood]].
# The plentiful supply of high concentrations of underground well water, which would be expected based on familiar principles of [[entropy]] to dissipate over a long period of time.
# The relative purity of underground well water, which should be a muddy slurry had millions of years of erosion taken place.
# Earthquakes alter the Earth's rotation several times each century;<ref>http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/2010872/japan_quake_changed_earths_rotation/</ref> extrapolating by orders of magnitude in time would have resulted in the occurrence of much larger earthquakes that would have destabilized the rotation<ref>A similar analysis may be performed for the likelihood of devastating collisions with meteors as time is extrapolated by orders of magnitude.</ref>
# The lack of erosion between rock layers.<ref>http://www.amazon.com/review/R1WTZL8GG4H9K0</ref><ref>http://www.knowthebible.net/id115.html</ref>
# Levels of contamination in water are rising, as water proceeds through the [[water cycle]] it becomes progressively more contaminated. If earth (and life) had existed for billions of years, a limit would have long been reached where water (essential to life) was too contaminated for life to continue.
# [[Paraconformity]] and unconformity such as that seen at the [[Grand Canyon]] disprove the [[uniformitarianism (science)|uniformitarian]] view of earth history.
# All [[carbon dating]] of water supplies, even the most ancient and the deepest underground reservoirs, result in relatively young ages,<ref>http://www.betalabservices.com/PDF/Geyh.pdf</ref> and no water has been found suggesting an Old Earth.
# The ratio of strontium isotopes in seawater, which should change due to long-term erosion, has varied by only 0.35% throughout history. In fact, its value today is exactly the same as in the oldest samples, which are claimed to be from 500 million years ago.
# The interior of the earth is heated by decay of radioactive isotopes, which could not possibly still be persisting in sufficient quantities after 5 billion, or even half a billion, years.
# The relatively recent separation of the still-moving continents from one land mass -- denied for 100 years by [[atheist]]s before they accepted it -- suggest a young earth or at least a relatively recent cataclysmic event.
# Fresh tracks of motion by stationary rocks are still visible in some areas, which have baffled Old Earth scientists for more than 60 years; Old Earth magazines refer to them as "self-moving rocks."<ref>http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2011/02/18/rafting-for-rocks?s_cid=rss:rafting-for-rocks</ref>
# Beaches have long been eroding far too quickly for the Old Earth theory; "between 80 and 90 percent of the sandy beaches along America’s coastlines have been eroding for decades," sometimes by as much as 50 feet per year.<ref>http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-causes-beach-erosion</ref>
# Land is sinking into the oceans at a rate of at least 7 inches per century,<ref>http://www.app.com/article/20110319/NJNEWS/103190327/Global-warming-rising-seas-threaten-New-Jersey-expert-says</ref> which would have rendered most of the United States under water if the Earth were not young.
# The flow of water in the [[Colorado River]] has been declining since the early 20th century, even after usage is considered, and the man-made Lake Mead is at risk of drying up on the next decade.<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/us/13mead.html</ref>

=== Science & Discovery ===
# A stalemate of significant and valid discoveries in the last several decades.<ref>Though there has been some progress in this timeframe, many of the "discoveries" are liberal propaganda, or are scientifically weak.</ref>

== Recommended books ==

*[[William R. Corliss]], Anomalies in Geology: Physical, Chemical, Biological (A Catalog of Geological Anomalies), 1989. ISBN 915554-23-2
*William R. Corliss Neglected Geological Anomalies, 1990. ISBN 915554-24-0
*William R. CorlissInner Earth: A Search for Anomalies (A Catalog of Geological Anomalies), 1991. ISBN 915554-25-9
*William R. Corliss, Carolina Bays, Mima Mounds, Submarine Canyons (A Catalog of Geological Anomalies), 1988. ISBN 915554-22-4

== External links ==
*[http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth Age of the earth -101 evidences for a young earth and universe] by [[Creation Ministries International]]
*[http://creation.com/refuting-evolution-chapter-8-how-old-is-the-earth How old is the earth?] - ''Refuting evolution'' - Chapter 8 by Dr. [[Jonathan Sarfati]] at [[Creation Ministries International]]
*[http://www.preteristcentral.com/Debunking%20Old%20Earth%20Creationism%20&%20a%20Regional%20Flood.html Debunking the Old Earth Theory]

== Footnotes ==

<references/>

== See also ==

*[[Counterexamples to Evolution]]
*[[Counterexamples to the Bible]]
*[[Counterexamples to Relativity]]
*[[Radiometric dating]]
[[Category:geology]]

Counterexamples to an Old Earth

2011-06-27T21:44:31Z

Ameda: Undo revision 883563 by Truediesel (talk)

God is a homo, so is jesus
== Counterexamples ==
The growing list of counterexamples to the theory of an [[Old Earth]] includes:

=== Astronomy ===
# The [[moon|Moon's]] orbit is a very strong counterxample: The moon is receding from the [[Earth]] at a rate<ref>"Measurements show that the Moon is receding from Earth at a rate of about 3.8 centimeters per year." [http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEhelp/ApolloLaser.html Measuring the Moon's Distance] ''Apollo Laser Ranging Experiments Yield Results'' by Fred Espenak, GSFC Planetary Systems Laboratory (LPI Bulletin, No. 72, August, 1994).</ref> that would have placed it too close to the Earth merely four billion years ago, causing instability in its orbit, tidal catastrophes on Earth, and other problems that would have prevented the Earth and the Moon being as they are today. Additionally, the [[moon]]'s orbit is becoming increasingly and unexpectedly eccentric, suggesting a lack of long-term stability.<ref>http://arxiv.org/abs/1102.0212</ref> This disproves the theory of an [[Old Earth]] even further.
# [[Spiral galaxies]] appear to be young, and only implausible proposals of the existence of [[dark matter]] can reconcile the spirals with a belief in an old universe.
# The planetary orbits in the Solar System - including Earth's - are unstable and unsustainable over the long periods claimed by Old Earth believers.<ref>[http://www.newsweek.com/id/201582 Newsweek: "An embarrassing little secret of astronomy ...."]. (Newsweek has inexplicably taken down its article, but it is quoted by Google and other links)</ref><ref>[http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v459/n7248/full/nature08096.html Existence of collisional trajectories of Mercury, Mars and Venus with the Earth] by J. Laskar & M. Gastineau, ''Nature'' 459, 817-819 (11 June 2009). Believers in an Old Earth speculate that the instability would not result in problems in a billion years, but other computer simulations could be developed to demonstrate multi-body instability for the solar system far more recent than that.</ref>
# At least one [[spiral galaxy]] spins in the direction opposite to the spin of its tail, suggesting an age too young to have generated the tail and contradicting the theory that the tails of spiral galaxies were formed over a long period of time.<ref>[http://www.unisci.com/stories/20021/0207023.htm "Hubble Shows Galaxy Rotating In The Wrong Direction"]</ref>
# The primary reaction in the [[Sun]] is the fusing of [[hydrogen]] to make [[helium]], but the ratio of these remains is too high for the Sun to have been burning for millions of years.

=== Biology ===
# The intelligence of humans is rapidly declining, whether measured by SAT scores,<ref>SAT scores have been rapidly decreasing in real terms.</ref> music, personal letters,<ref>E.g., Civil War letters.</ref> quality of political debates,<ref>E.g., contrast the Lincoln-Douglas debates with debates today.</ref> the quality of news articles,<ref>''The Federalist'' was written for the newspaper audience in the late 1780s, but is far too intellectual for newspapers today.</ref> and many other measures.
# The age of onset of [[puberty|sexual maturity]] is rapidly changing, suggesting that life is in a short-term rather than long-term equilibrium.<ref>For evidence of a rapidly changing age for sexual maturity in fish, see http://icesjms.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/46/3/235</ref>
# The high observed rate of [[extinctions of species]]<ref>[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-10-26/animals-face-extinction-threat-as-conservation-efforts-slow-report-says.html One in five species are at risk of extinction]</ref> and harmful [[genetic mutation]]s suggest a relatively short period for the existence of life rather than a long one.
# The age of onset of graying of hair or balding is rapidly decreasing, with many teenagers now experiencing baldness or premature graying ([[CNN]]'s [[Anderson Cooper]] began graying as a teenager and was fully gray long before age 40);<ref name="Graying">http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-06-18/living/17299704_1_hair-taylor-hicks-american-idol</ref> many celebrities (such as [[American Idol]] winner Taylor Hicks graying in his 20s)<ref name="Graying"/> and athletes (such as Cal Ripken, Jr. graying and balding in his mid-30s)<ref>"There's a man, close-cropped gray hair, looks older than 35": Sports Illustrated's description of Cal Ripken at 35. [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1163438/index.htm#ixzz12ONbgydd] By age 50 he was bald too.</ref> increasingly experience premature graying or balding.
# The age of onset of [[cancer]] is markedly decreasing,<ref>http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/109865519/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0</ref> suggesting rapid changes inconsistent with an alleged long existence to life.
# The oldest direct evidence of life -- written documents, clothing, remnants of civilizations, tree rings, etc. -- is no older than about 3000 B.C.
# The number of natural, pure-bred bred dogs declines over time as dogs naturally crossbreed; a short period of time is suggested by the fact that there are over 100 different natural, pure breeds of dog thriving today.
# Lack of genetic diversity among the ''Homo sapiens'' species. Were evolution and the old earth true, the human population would show a much larger genetic variance.<ref>http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/descent.html#rpafAHIwKHS7</ref>
# Frequent occurrences of massive deaths of birds and fish, which if extrapolated over millions of years would result in little or no such life today.<ref>http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/technology&id=7884786</ref>
# The separation between salt and freshwater fish, coupled with their inability to survive in the opposing environment not only suggests a global flood but also shows that evolution has not allowed them to spread further than ever intended

=== Geology ===
[[Image:516XZRGNCKL AA240 .jpg|right|300px]]
[[William R. Corliss]] is a cataloger of scientific [[Anomaly|anomalies]] (observations and facts that challenge prevailing scientific [[paradigm]]s) and has published many works on the subject.<ref name="sf">[http://www.science-frontiers.com/ Science Frontiers] (Corliss' web-site)</ref>
He also wrote 13 books for the [[National Aeronautics and Space Administration]] (NASA), a dozen educational booklets for the [[Atomic Energy Commission]] (AEC), and a dozen articles for the [[National Science Foundation]] (NSF). <ref>Corliss, 2002</ref> The science magazine ''[[New Scientist]]'' had an article which focused on the career of William Corliss.<ref>Adrian Hope, ''Finding a Home for Stray Fact'', New Scientist, July 14, 1977, p. 83</ref>
''New Scientist'' wrote regarding Corliss's work: "All I can say to Corliss is carry on cataloging". <ref>Quoted on the [http://www.science-frontiers.com/sourcebk.htm Science Frontiers web-site]</ref> [[Arthur C. Clarke]] described Corliss as "[[Charles Fort|Fort]]'s latter-day - and much more scientific - successor."<ref>Clarke, Arthur C. (1990) ''Astounding Days: A Science Fictional Autobiography''. Gollancz. Page 110</ref>

Corliss's work on geological anomalies catalogs scores of anomalies which challenge the [[old-Earth]] [[paradigm]].<ref>[http://www.science-frontiers.com/sourcebk.htm#Geology Geological Catalogs] (Science Frontiers)</ref>

Other examples include:

# The continued existence of fragile natural arches without having collapsed a short time period for erosion and stresses on them.<ref>http://www.naturalarches.org/big9.htm</ref>
# An extrapolation of time between the collapse of weaker arches<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/11/AR2008081102290.html</ref> with still-standing stronger arches supports a young earth age.
# The massive [[Great Lakes]] and freshwater lakes near the equator could not exist for millions of years, and several of these lakes are rapidly receding in volume; the third largest saltwater lake, Oroumieh Lake, could completely evaporate within the next five years.<ref>http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110525/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_environmental_disaster</ref>
# The existence of inland saltwater lakes at high altitudes, such as [[Mono Lake]] and the [[Great Salt Lake]], suggest a recent global [[flood]].
# The plentiful supply of high concentrations of underground well water, which would be expected based on familiar principles of [[entropy]] to dissipate over a long period of time.
# The relative purity of underground well water, which should be a muddy slurry had millions of years of erosion taken place.
# Earthquakes alter the Earth's rotation several times each century;<ref>http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/2010872/japan_quake_changed_earths_rotation/</ref> extrapolating by orders of magnitude in time would have resulted in the occurrence of much larger earthquakes that would have destabilized the rotation<ref>A similar analysis may be performed for the likelihood of devastating collisions with meteors as time is extrapolated by orders of magnitude.</ref>
# The lack of erosion between rock layers.<ref>http://www.amazon.com/review/R1WTZL8GG4H9K0</ref><ref>http://www.knowthebible.net/id115.html</ref>
# Levels of contamination in water are rising, as water proceeds through the [[water cycle]] it becomes progressively more contaminated. If earth (and life) had existed for billions of years, a limit would have long been reached where water (essential to life) was too contaminated for life to continue.
# [[Paraconformity]] and unconformity such as that seen at the [[Grand Canyon]] disprove the [[uniformitarianism (science)|uniformitarian]] view of earth history.
# All [[carbon dating]] of water supplies, even the most ancient and the deepest underground reservoirs, result in relatively young ages,<ref>http://www.betalabservices.com/PDF/Geyh.pdf</ref> and no water has been found suggesting an Old Earth.
# The ratio of strontium isotopes in seawater, which should change due to long-term erosion, has varied by only 0.35% throughout history. In fact, its value today is exactly the same as in the oldest samples, which are claimed to be from 500 million years ago.
# The interior of the earth is heated by decay of radioactive isotopes, which could not possibly still be persisting in sufficient quantities after 5 billion, or even half a billion, years.
# The relatively recent separation of the still-moving continents from one land mass -- denied for 100 years by [[atheist]]s before they accepted it -- suggest a young earth or at least a relatively recent cataclysmic event.
# Fresh tracks of motion by stationary rocks are still visible in some areas, which have baffled Old Earth scientists for more than 60 years; Old Earth magazines refer to them as "self-moving rocks."<ref>http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2011/02/18/rafting-for-rocks?s_cid=rss:rafting-for-rocks</ref>
# Beaches have long been eroding far too quickly for the Old Earth theory; "between 80 and 90 percent of the sandy beaches along America’s coastlines have been eroding for decades," sometimes by as much as 50 feet per year.<ref>http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=what-causes-beach-erosion</ref>
# Land is sinking into the oceans at a rate of at least 7 inches per century,<ref>http://www.app.com/article/20110319/NJNEWS/103190327/Global-warming-rising-seas-threaten-New-Jersey-expert-says</ref> which would have rendered most of the United States under water if the Earth were not young.
# The flow of water in the [[Colorado River]] has been declining since the early 20th century, even after usage is considered, and the man-made Lake Mead is at risk of drying up on the next decade.<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/13/us/13mead.html</ref>

=== Science & Discovery ===
# A stalemate of significant and valid discoveries in the last several decades.<ref>Though there has been some progress in this timeframe, many of the "discoveries" are liberal propaganda, or are scientifically weak.</ref>

== Recommended books ==

*[[William R. Corliss]], Anomalies in Geology: Physical, Chemical, Biological (A Catalog of Geological Anomalies), 1989. ISBN 915554-23-2
*William R. Corliss Neglected Geological Anomalies, 1990. ISBN 915554-24-0
*William R. CorlissInner Earth: A Search for Anomalies (A Catalog of Geological Anomalies), 1991. ISBN 915554-25-9
*William R. Corliss, Carolina Bays, Mima Mounds, Submarine Canyons (A Catalog of Geological Anomalies), 1988. ISBN 915554-22-4

== External links ==
*[http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth Age of the earth -101 evidences for a young earth and universe] by [[Creation Ministries International]]
*[http://creation.com/refuting-evolution-chapter-8-how-old-is-the-earth How old is the earth?] - ''Refuting evolution'' - Chapter 8 by Dr. [[Jonathan Sarfati]] at [[Creation Ministries International]]
*[http://www.preteristcentral.com/Debunking%20Old%20Earth%20Creationism%20&%20a%20Regional%20Flood.html Debunking the Old Earth Theory]

== Footnotes ==

<references/>

== See also ==

*[[Counterexamples to Evolution]]
*[[Counterexamples to the Bible]]
*[[Counterexamples to Relativity]]
*[[Radiometric dating]]
[[Category:geology]]

Counterexamples to an Old Earth

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Counterexamples to an Old Earth

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Penîs.

Counterexamples to an Old Earth

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Penîs. Huge huge penis

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Counterexamples to an Old Earth

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Barack Hussein Obama

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Ameda: Undo revision 883541 by AwzomSauce (talk) can someone block TrueDiesel and AwzonSauce, theyre obvious vandals.

{{Officeholder
|name=Barack Hussein Obama
|image=President Barack Obama.jpg
|party=[[Democrat]]
|spouse=[[Michelle LaVaughn Robinson Obama]]
|religion=Officially Christian, See article for details
|offices=
{{Officeholder/president
|country=the United States
|number=44th
|terms=January 20, 2009-Present
|vp=[[Joe Biden]]
|preceded=[[George W. Bush]]
|former=n
|succeeded=
}}
{{Officeholder/senator
|state=Illinois
|terms=January 3, 2005 – November 16, 2008
|preceded=Peter Fitzgerald
|former=y
|succeeded=[[Roland Burris]]
}}
}}

'''Barack Hussein Obama II''' (born August 4, 1961) is the 44th President of the [[United States]] and the controversial recipient of the 2009 [[Nobel Prize|Nobel Peace Prize]]. Overcoming a short political career, Obama defeated [[Republican]] nominee [[John McCain]] for the presidency in 2008, campaigning on promises of "hope" and "change". In effect, that change has been an embrace of [[socialism]] and [[liberal]] policies. Barack Obama has been widely criticized by the American [[business]] community and others for his anti-business policies that are killing American jobs during a period of high unemployment.<ref>
*[http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2010/07/16/obamas-anti-business-policies-are-our-economic-katrina Obama's Anti-business Policies are our Economic Katrina]
*[http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/619dvjlm.asp An Anti-Business President]
*[http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/08/small-businesses-are-not-hiring-why.html Small Businesses are not hiring. Why should they?]
*[http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/02/dear_mr_president_why_we_are_n.html Dear Mr. President: Why we are not hiring]
</ref>

[[Poverty]]<ref>http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/data/incpovhlth/2009/pov09fig04.pdf</ref> has increased markedly in his time in office.<ref>http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2010-09-16-poverty-rate-income-numbers_N.htm</ref>By and large, his economic policies to combat the recession have, to date, ranged from ineffective to counterproductive.<ref>"The vast majority (73%) of respondents reported the fiscal stimulus enacted in February 2009 has had no impact on employment to date. While 68% also believe a jobs bill, such as the one recently enacted into law, will have no impact on payrolls, 30% do believe it will boost payrolls moderately". ''Industry Survey'', National Association for Business Economics, April 2010, [http://www.nabe.com/press/ind1004.pdf p. 2 pdf].</ref> Also on the domestic front, Obama passed a major [[health care]] bill in 2009 with no [[bipartisan]] support and 34 Democrats dissenting. In foreign policy Obama has escalated the [[Afghanistan War]] and, against his own Defense Secretary's advice, [[Libyan uprising 2011|attacked Libya]] - a possible violation of the [[War Powers Act]]. On May 1st 2011 he announced that the United States had killed [[September 11th]] mastermind and terrorist [[Osama bin Laden]] in [[Pakistan]] with negligible impact on his overall approval ratings.

[[John Maynard Keynes]] was an incompetent [[liberal]] [[British]] economist, [[John Maynard Keynes and pederasty|pedophile]] and one of the most persuasive frauds of the 20th century.
<ref>
*[http://www.keynesatharvard.org/book/KeynesatHarvard-ch09.html KEYNES AT HARVARD Economic Deception as a Political Credo BY ZYGMUND DOBBS]
*[http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2008/01/keyness-jew-boy-quickie/220620/ The Atlantic - Keynes' pederasty]
*[http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/fabian-john-maynard-keynes-the-stealthy-enemy-of-human-freedom/ John Maynard Keynes the stealthy enemy of human freedom]
*[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-02-22/deathbed-of-keynesian-economics-will-be-in-u-k-matthew-lynn.html Deathbed of Keynesian Economics will be in the UK]
*[http://www.iwf.org/inkwell/show/23102.html Will the G8 Repudiate the Philosophy of Living Beyond Our Means?]
</ref> It is ironic that [[liberal]]s such as [[Barack Obama]] advocate [[Keynesian Economics|Keynesian economic concepts]] since they are violating one of Keynes' key principles. [[John Maynard Keynes]] advocated having governments run [[budget surplus|budget surpluses]] during good economic times.<ref>EK Brown-Collie and Bruce E. Collier, What Keynes really said about deficit spending, Journal of Post Keynesian Economics, Vol. 17, No. 3, Spring, 1995</ref>
In addition, Keynes advocated that governments should increase government spending during difficult times and even engage in [[deficit spending]].<ref>
*[http://www.keynesatharvard.org/book/KeynesatHarvard-ch09.html KEYNES AT HARVARD Economic Deception as a Political Credo BY ZYGMUND DOBBS]
*[http://www.theatlantic.com/daily-dish/archive/2008/01/keyness-jew-boy-quickie/220620/ The Atlantic - Keynes' pederasty]
*[http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/fabian-john-maynard-keynes-the-stealthy-enemy-of-human-freedom/ John Maynard Keynes the stealthy enemy of human freedom]
*[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-02-22/deathbed-of-keynesian-economics-will-be-in-u-k-matthew-lynn.html Deathbed of Keynesian Economics will be in the UK]
*[http://www.iwf.org/inkwell/show/23102.html Will the G8 Repudiate the Philosophy of Living Beyond Our Means?]
</ref> Keynes was also against large structural deficits as he believed they are a drag on the economy.<ref>http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/04/news/economy/meltzer_keynes.fortune/</ref> Liberals such as Barack Obama [[American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009|advocate massive U.S. government spending]] during a period when the federal government already has a [[Obama administration fiscal policy|massive amount of existing debt]]. Furthermore, Obama's colossal government spending was inefficient and [[American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009|did not pull the American economy out of its economic problems]], but merely [[Obama administration fiscal policy|buried the U.S. economy under more debt.]]

In 2010, Keynes' native land of [[Britain]] (which is deeply in debt) repudiated the Keynesian economic folly of government deficit spending through the implementation of a government austerity budget during a period of economic difficulty.<ref>[http://www.iwf.org/inkwell/show/23102.html Will the G8 Repudiate the Philosophy of Living Beyond Our Means?]</ref><ref>[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-02-22/deathbed-of-keynesian-economics-will-be-in-u-k-matthew-lynn.html Deathbed of Keynesian Economics will be in the UK]</ref> Although government certainly is necessary, the more efficient private sector is better at creating economically productive jobs and other economic activity such as [[investment|investing.]]

==Early life==
:''Main article : [[Early life and career of Barack Hussein Obama]]''
:''See also : [[Barack Obama's Muslim Heritage]]''
Obama was born in Hawaii to Stanley Ann Dunham and [[Barack Obama Sr.]] - who had married just six months prior - on August 4, 1961 in [[Honolulu, Hawaii]]. The couple divorced in 1964. Barack Obama Sr. was not a [[Natural born citizen|citizen of the United States]]. Dunham remarried Lolo Soetoro, an [[Indonesia]]n student. When Obama was six, Soetoro returned to Indonesia, and Dunham and Obama followed.<ref name="db mother">{{cite web|url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-05-03/a-singular-woman-by-janny-scott-review-by-stacy-schiff/#|work=The Daily Beast|format=HTML|language=English|title=Dreams of His Mother|author=Stacy Schiff}}</ref> He spent four years in Indonesia before returning to Hawaii to be raised by his grandparents, Madelyn and WW2 veteran Stanley Armour Dunham. He would later attend Occidental College, [[Columbia University]] and then [[Harvard University]] for law school, where he would become the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. It is disputed whether Obama was actually born in the United States, many people believing him to have been born in Kenya.

==Illinois State Senate career==
[[File:O-2002-antiwar-rally-davidson.jpg|right|thumb|250px| Obama speaking at the October 2002 rally in Chicago organized by [[Carl Davidson]].<ref>Davidson is a longtime [[Mao]]ist and champion of the ''Thought of Mao Tse Tung.'' Davidson's anti-Trotskyite polemic, [http://www.wengewang.org/read.php?tid=10925 ''Left in Form, Right in Essence''] defends Maoist doctrine. Retrieved from 对当代托洛茨基主义的批判：英文论集百花齐放 - 中国文革研究网, March 15, 2010.</ref> ''"[H]e is a brutal man who butchers his own people,"'' nevertheless Obama opposed ''"dumb wars".'']]

In 1995 Obama openly sought and obtained the endorsement of the [[Marxist]] [[New Party]] in his quest to be elected to the Illinois State Senate.<ref>[http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7434 NEW PARTY (NP)], discoverthenetwork.org.</ref><ref>Rick Moran. [http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2008/06/obamas_alliance_with_marxists.html Obama's Alliance with Marxists], ''American Thinker'', June 03, 2008.</ref> He became the [[Democrat]] nominee and ran unopposed to win the election. Obama entered the Illinois Senate promising change to a corrupt system. He mixed often radical votes with more pragmatic agreements. Possibly one of his most radical votes was against requiring medical care for aborted children who survive [[abortion|the procedure]] - in fact the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council ascribed him a 100% rating for his consistently pro-choice votes.<ref name="cbs illinois">{{cite web|url=http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/01/17/politics/main2369157.shtml|title=Obama Record May Be Gold Mine For Critics|work=CBS|format=HTML|language=English|last=Clark|first=Amy S.|date=Jan. 17, 2007}}</ref> He was criticized for using the statehouse as a stepping stone for a more illustrious career: Steven J. Rauschenberger, a [[Republican]], said prior to Obama's election as president: “He is a very bright but very ambitious person who has always had his eyes on the prize, and it wasn’t Springfield. If he deserves to be president, it is not because he was a great legislator.”<ref name="nyt illinois">{{cite web|work=The New York Times|title=In Illinois, Obama Proved Pragmatic and Shrewd|last=Scott|first=Janny|format=HTML|language=English|date=July 30, 2007|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/30/us/politics/30obama.html}}</ref>

The statehouse was majority Republican, so the Senator was sometimes forced to compromise. He formed allegiances across party lines to pass [[campaign finance]] reform that banned most gifts by lobbyists, prohibited spending campaign money for legislators’ personal use and required electronic filing of campaign disclosure reports.<ref name="nyt illinois"/> Obama also helped pass a so-called “driving-while-black bill”, which required the police to collect data on the race of drivers they stopped as a way to monitor [[racial profiling]].<ref name="nyt illinois"/>

Obama established himself as a chief spokesperson in opposition to the [[War on Terror]] during an October 2002 rally at Federal Plaza in Chicago<ref>The rally was organized by Chicagoans Against War in Iraq (CAWI) later renamed Chicagoans Against War and Injustice. [http://www.noiraqwar-chicago.org/?page_id=2 About CAWI] by Carl Davidson, Nov 02 2006. Retrieved from Chicagoans Against War and Injustice, March 15, 2010.</ref> [[community organizing|organized]] by veteran [[Mao]]ist and webmaster of [[Progressives for Obama]],<ref>[http://www.linkedin.com/in/carldavidson Carl Davidson,] LinkedIn.com, retrieved March 13, 2010.</ref> [[Carl Davidson]].

===Radical foundation and connection to William Ayers===
{{main article|Radical roots of Barack Hussein Obama}}
In 1995 a cadre of like minded individuals gathered in the home of [[Weather Underground]] (WUO) [[terrorist]]s [[Bernardine Dohrn]] and [[William Ayers|William "Bill" Ayers]]. Dohrn,<ref>Georgie Anne Geyer and Keyes Beach "Cuba: School for U.S. Radicals", ''Chicago Daily News/Chicago Sun-Times'' five part series October 1970, excerpted in [http://foia.fbi.gov/filelink.html?file=/weather/weath1c.pdf FBI file Weather Underground Organization (Weatherman),] Part 1c pp. 5-7 pdf (113-115 in original). [http://therealbarackobama.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/clandestine-agents-of-the-cuban-government-ayers-dohrn-myers/]</ref> along with Carl Davidson, are veterans of [[guerrilla warfare]] training in [[Cuba]] prior 1968 Democratic National Convention riots. Ayers and Dohrn have taken credit for, and never denied, bombing the [[U.S. Capitol]], the [[Pentagon]] and the [[State Department]].

Ayers and Dohrn used their celebrity status among [[leftist]]s to launch Obama's career. Ayers, Dohrn and [[Jeff Jones]]<ref>[http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=106653 ''Obama's 'green jobs czar' worked with terror founder] Van Jones served on board of activist group where ex-Weatherman serves as top director'', By Aaron Klein, [[WorldNetDaily]], August 13, 2009.</ref> are authors of ''[[Bill_Ayers#Prairie_Fire_Organizing_Committee_and_Maoist_thought|Prairie Fire: The Politics of Revolutionary Anti-imperialism]],'' the title taken from ''The Sayings of Mao Zedong.''<ref>[http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/]</ref> The book declares "we are [[communist]] men and women."<ref>Harvey Klehr, ''Far Left of Center: The American Radical Left Today'' (Transaction Books, New Brunswick, 1988), 109.</ref> Ayers later publicly admitted to ghostwriting Obama's book, ''Dreams From My Father.''<ref>http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/03/ayers_affirms_he_wrote_dreams.html</ref>

==U.S. Senate career==
:''See also: [[Early_life_and_career_of_Barack_Hussein_Obama#U.S._Senate_.282004-2008.29|Barack Obama:U.S. Senate (2004-2008)]]''
[[Image:obama.jpg|thumb|left|Senator Barack Obama]]

Following a failed campaign for the U. S. House of Representatives, Obama ran for the open Senate seat from Illinois in 2004 against Republican candidate Jack Ryan. He won the seat after Chicago media outlets The Chicago Tribune newspaper and Chicago ABC affiliate WLS-TV; together with candidate Jack Ryan's Republican Primary opponents, sought and obtained the release of the confidential and personally embarrassing records in his California divorce from actress Jeri Ryan, forcing him to end his campaign. Ryan was replaced by the out-of-state candidate [[Alan Keyes]]. Obama won over Keyes 70% to 27% in the general election. Obama spent very little time in the Senate - "frustrated by his lack of influence and what he called the 'glacial pace' ... [he began] running for president even as he was still getting lost in the Capitol’s corridors."<ref name="nyt senate">{{cite web|work=The New York Times|publisher=The New York Times, Inc.|format=HTML|language=English|title=Obama in Senate: Star Power, Minor Role|author=Kate Zernike and Jeff Zelleny|date=March 9, 2008|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/us/politics/09obama.html}}</ref>

Obama frequently used the [[filibuster]] to obstruct the operations of government,<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020303801_pf.html</ref> voted against the [[minimum wage]]<ref>[http://uspolitics.about.com/od/legislatio1/a/HR2206.htm HR 2206 - Emergency Appropriations], Kathy Gill, Your Guide to U.S. Politics: Current Events. May 26 2007.</ref><ref>[http://more.gov.mtopgroup.com/2007/05/votes-hr-2206-iraq-supplemental.html Votes - H.R. 2206: Iraq Supplemental], May 28, 2007. Retrieved from Deeper Inside the Mountain, June 4, 2007.</ref> and debt ceiling increases,<ref>http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/04/obama-once-opposed-debt-ceiling-hike/237129/</ref> and recieved more than $126,000 in campaign contributions from [[Fannie Mae]]. The ''[[National Journal]]'' ranked him the most liberal senator in 2007.<ref name="ranked">{{cite web|url=http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502163_162-3775451-502163.html|title=National Journal: Obama Most Liberal Senator In 2007|author=Brian Montopoli|date=January 31, 2008|work=CBS}}</ref>

==Presidential Election==
{{main article|Barack Hussein Obama 2008 Presidential campaign}}
Democrats began calling for an Obama candidacy after liberals lauded his 2004 [[Democratic National Convention]] speech.
===Campaign to be the Democratic nominee===
The race for the Democratic ticket originally seemed [[Hillary Clinton]]'s to lose, but was ultimately a close race between Clinton and Obama. Clinton would take a slim advantage in the popular vote, while Obama would carry significantly more states and territories. Obama's advantage with super-delegates over Clinton was about 2-to-1.<ref>{{Cite web|title=Superdelegate endorsements for Friday 6/6|work=Democratic Convention Watch|url=http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/06/superdelegate-endorsements-for-friday.html}}</ref> Obama was able to attract the support of [[liberals]] by pointing out that he had come out against the [[Iraq War]] "from the beginning" whereas Clinton had voted in favor of the war in 2002.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-01-31-democrats-debate_N.htm|title=Obama, Clinton stress differences on Iraq, issues|author=David Jackson|work=USA Today|format=HTML|language=English}}</ref>
===Campaign for the Presidency===
Obama campaigned against Senator [[John McCain]] in the general election. To the chagrin of Clinton supporters, he selected Senator [[Joe Biden]] to be his running mate, whereas McCain selected [[Governor]] of [[Alaska]] [[Sarah Palin]]. The Obama and Biden ticket would win the election, and Obama would become the nation's first [[African American]] president.

====Jeremiah Wright====
One major dilemma that arose for Obama during his campaign was his connection to his preacher Jeremiah Wright. Obama and his wife (raised a Baptist) were members of the Trinity [[United Church of Christ]]<ref>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1776246/posts</ref> in Chicago, a chruch that embraced [[black liberation theology]] and its emphasis on empowering so-called "oppressed groups" against "establishment forces". This denomination was the first in America to ordain gays as ministers.<ref>http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/31079.html, Obama's church pushes controversial doctrines, March 20, 2008</ref> Church pastor Jeremiah Wright had been making inflammatory comments and posting his sermons online for sale. These include the statement "G-d damn America," and in describing the September 11th attacks, "We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost."<ref>[http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4443788 Obama's Pastor: G-d Damn America, U.S. to Blame for 9/11]</ref> In addition, Rev. Wright blamed America saying "We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being [[anti-Semitic]]."

In April 2008, after 20 years in the church, candidate Obama made public statements poised to set him at odds with the man who conducted his wedding and baptized his children. With the negative publicity persisting, a month later Obama ended the friendship, left Wright's church, and blamed the media.<ref>[http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/31/obama-resigns-church-membership-in-chicago/], Obama Drops Church Membership in Chicago, May 31, 2008</ref> Obama claimed “It’s not fair to the other members of the church who seek to worship in peace...", and distanced himself from Wright's sermons as "a bunch of rants that aren't grounded in the truth."<ref>USA TODAY, ''Obama breaks with former pastor, Candidate cites rants on U.S. role in terror, AIDS'', by Kathy Kiely and David Jackson [http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20080430/1a_offlede30_dom.art.htm]</ref><ref>''Obama Says He Is Outraged By Wright's "Rants"''[http://www.usnews.com/usnews/politics/bulletin/bulletin_080430.htm]</ref>

==Presidential career==
{{main article|Obama administration}}
[[File:Obama and George H. W. Bush.jpg|thumb|right|300px|President Barack Obama meets with former President George H. W. Bush in the Oval Office, Feb. 15, 2011. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza).]]
Under Obama's stewardship the United States has suffered the largest [[Federal budget deficit|deficit]]s<ref>http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/107xx/doc10708/11-06-mbr.htm</ref><ref>http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/118xx/doc11873/NovemberMBR.pdf</ref> in history and a credit downgrade from the rating agency Standard & Poor.<ref>http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/04/18/the-sp-outlook-and-obama/</ref> When his [[economic stimulus]] program was adopted unemployment rose and stagnated in the 10% range, <ref>http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704476104575439172480870774.html?mod=googlenews_wsj</ref> leaving tens of millions without [[hope]] of finding a job.<ref>[http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?data_tool=latest_numbers&series_id=LNS11300000&years_option=specific_years&include_graphs=true&to_month=1&from_month=2 United States Department of Labor], Bureau of Labor Statistics. Data extracted on: July 19, 2010 (4:31:11 PM).</ref>

Patrick H. Caddell and Douglas E. Schoen, writing in the [[Wall Street Journal]], noted, "Rather than being a unifier, Mr. Obama has divided America on the basis of race, class and partisanship." The commentators also note Obama's approach to governance has encouraged radical leftists to pursue a similar strategy on his behalf. Mary Frances Berry, former head of the U.S. Civil Rights Commission, acknowledged that the [[Obama administration]] has taken to polarizing America around the issue of race as a means of diverting attention from other issues, saying, "Having one's opponent [[race card|rebut charges of racism]] is far better than discussing [[Unemployment|joblessness]]."<ref>http://www.politico.com/arena/perm/Mary_Frances_Berry_91E3D9D5-C40D-440C-9D48-1C50CBC60C87.html</ref> Caddell and Schoen, who worked for President Carter and Clinton, respectively, further stated, "Mr. Obama has also cynically [[class warfare|divided the country on class lines]]. He has taken to playing the populist card time and time again. He bashes Wall Street and insurance companies whenever convenient to advance his programs, yet he has been eager to accept campaign contributions and negotiate with these very same banks and [[corporation]]s behind closed doors in order to advance his political agenda... President Obama's divisive approach to governance has weakened us as a people and paralyzed our political culture."<ref>http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748703700904575391553798363586.html</ref>

===Domestic policy===
====Popular bills====
Obama's first act of office was to sign the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act - effectively nullifying the [[Supreme Court]] case ''Ledbetter v. Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co.'', which ruled that Ledbetter had to have filed a pay [[discrimination]] suit within 180 days of the first time Ledbetter was payed less than her male peers;<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/us/politics/30ledbetter-web.html|work=The New York Times|format=HTML|language=English|title=Obama Signs Equal-Pay Legislation|author=Sheryl Gay Stolberg|date=January 29, 2009}}</ref> the law made corporations subject to suit within 180 days of each time the employee was unfairly paid.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://writ.news.findlaw.com/grossman/20090213.html?=features|work=FindLaw|author=Joanna L. Grossman|date=Feb. 13, 2009|format=HTML|language=English|title=The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009}}</ref>

On January 2, 2011, Obama signed the James Zadroga [[9/11]] Healthcare and Compensation Act.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2011/jan/02/obama-signs-zadroga-act-law/|publisher=New York Public Radio|title=Obama Signs Zadroga Act into Law|author=Fred Mogul|date=January 02, 2011|work=wNYC|format=HTML|language=English}}</ref> The act, which afforded 9/11 first responders who were sickened by the dust from the collapse of the [[World Trade Center]] health care and compensation, passed [[Congress]] after its sponsored agreed to scale down the pricing from 7.4 to 4.2 billion dollars.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.wnyc.org/articles/wnyc-news/2010/dec/22/zadroga-911-bill-passes-senate/|publisher=New York Public Radio|work=wNYC|format=HTML|language=English|title=Congress Approves 9/11 Health Bill|date=December 22, 2010}}</ref>

====Economic plan====
[[File:Keynes.jpg|thumbnail|right|190px|[[Barack Obama]] advocates the use of [[Keynesian economics|Keynesian economic concepts]] despite the fact that the [[John Maynard Keynes and pederasty|pedophile]] [[John Maynard Keynes]] was incompetent and a fraud.<ref>
*[http://centurean2.wordpress.com/2011/03/20/fabian-john-maynard-keynes-the-stealthy-enemy-of-human-freedom/ John Maynard Keynes the stealthy enemy of human freedom]
*[http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-02-22/deathbed-of-keynesian-economics-will-be-in-u-k-matthew-lynn.html Deathbed of Keynesian Economics will be in the UK]
*[http://www.iwf.org/inkwell/show/23102.html Will the G8 Repudiate the Philosophy of Living Beyond Our Means?]
*[http://www.keynesatharvard.org/book/KeynesatHarvard-ch09.html KEYNES AT HARVARD Economic Deception as a Political Credo BY ZYGMUND DOBBS]
</ref> ]]
{{see also|Obamunism|American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009}}
Critics of the Obama administration have coined the word "[[Obamunism]]" to describe Barack Obama's [[socialism|socialistic]] and "[[fascism]] light" [[economic planning]] policies ([[Benito Mussolini]] defined fascism as the wedding of state and corporate powers. Accordingly, trend forecaster [[Gerald Celente]] labels [[Obama administration corporate bailouts|Obama's corporate bailouts]] as being "fascism light" in nature).<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.thebigmoney.com/articles/daily-intel/2009/07/20/obamunism-inc|work=The Big Money|publisher=WashingtonPost.Newsweek Interactive Co. LLC|format=HTML|language=English|title=Obamunism, Inc.|author=David Sessions|date=July 20, 2009}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.smallbusinessadvocate.com/small-business-interviews/gerald-celente-6944|author=Jim Blasingame|title=Is the government creating a bailout bubble?}}</ref> Obamunism can also refer to Obama's [[Obama administration fiscal policy|ruinous fiscal policies]] and [[Obama administration monetary policy|reckless monetary policies]].<ref name="gerard">{{cite web|url=http://seekingalpha.com/article/120883-monetary-policynot-obama-s-stimulusis-what-needs-watching|title=Monetary Policy-Not Obama's Stimulus-Is What Needs Watching|author=Gerard Jackson|date=February 16, 2009|work=Seeking Alpha}}</ref><ref name="bam">{{cite web|work=New York Post|date=May 17, 2009|url=http://www.nypost.com/seven/05172009/postopinion/editorials/bams_wise_words_169731.htm|title=BAM'S WISE WORDS}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|url=http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/|title=Bush Deficit vs. Obama Deficit in Pictures|work=The Foundry|publisher=The Heritage Foundation|author=Conn Carroll|date=March 24th, 2009}}</ref>

[[Wall Street]] firms and banks that were bailed out were among Obama's biggest campaign supporters.<ref>http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638</ref> Therefore, the Obama administration bailouts of corrupt, unproductive, and reckless Wall Street firms was hardly surprising, although it certainly was not helpful in making the United States economy more productive and prosperous. A 2005 study found that government corporate bailouts are often done for mere political considerations and the economic resources allocated exhibit significantly worse economic performance than resources allocated using purely business considerations.<ref>http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=676905</ref> Proponents of [[free market]] capitalism said Bernanke should not have bailed out failing firms and instead should have allowed free market capitalism to quickly recover as it did in the depression of 1920 without government intervention (free market capitalists assert that government intervention drags out economic recessions and depressions).<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcUmnsprQI</ref>

Top trend forecaster [[Gerald Celente]] predicts that the corrupt economic policies of the Obama administration will lead to a second [[Great Depression|great depression]] (Celente predicted the 1987 US stock market crash, the dot.com crash, the US 2008/2009 recession, and the collapse of the USSR in the early 1990s) and may lead to a "second [[American Revolution]]" (Celente predicted the [[Tea Party Movement|tax protests]] that are now occurring in America).<ref name="celente1">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MMX3SKzrfU&feature=channel_page</ref><ref name="celente2">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy9bfw1ebgw&feature=response_watch</ref> Celente also asserts that the costly and inefficient temporary short term methods that the Obama administration is using to alleviate economic problems in the short term (which is causing massive increases in [[Obama administration deficit spending]]) is only making matters worse and will not prevent the worse economic depression in United States history from occurring.<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_C8K7rWkGGw</ref><ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LBffdIW0XA&feature=response_watch</ref>

The Obama administration has been sharply criticized for [[Obama administration deficit spending|its massive deficit spending]] and [[Obama administration monetary policy|its reckless monetary policy]] via vast increases in the [[money supply]].<ref name="gerard"/><ref name="bam"/><ref>http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/</ref> Celente predicts that if a "second American Revolution" occurs in a peaceful and productive manner, it may include a [[Third Party System|third party movement]] of governance that will advocate a more [[free market]] [[capitalism]] approach to the American economy and a more strict interpretation of the [[United States Constitution|United States constitution]] as far as the authors' [[original intent]].<ref name="celente1"/><ref name="celente2"/>

During what the [[White House]] billed as [[Recovery Summer]], one half million workers per week continued losing their jobs. His signature legislative achievement, [[ObamaCare]], the federal courts have found to be [[unconstitutional]]<ref>http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-13/u-s-health-care-law-requirement-thrown-out-by-judge.html</ref> and is credited as a major cause of uncertainty, high [[unemployment]],<ref>http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=33220</ref> lagging job creation,<ref>http://blog.heritage.org/2010/08/05/it%E2%80%99s-official-medicare%E2%80%99s-finances-shadowed-by-uncertainty/</ref> and risk of a credit default crisis.<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/28/AR2010032802353.html</ref><ref>http://www.thestreet.com/story/10703361/cramer-obamacare-will-topple-the-market.html</ref>

His 2012 Budget plan has been roundly criticized in the mainsream and liberal press as not a serious effort to deal with the nation's economic crisis.<ref>[http://republican.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=blogs.view&blog_id=1551d6f5-2ac9-4b8d-97ab-74def354024e Newspapers Call Out White House: ‘What Would That Path Be, Mr. President?’]</ref>

=====Healthcare=====
{{main article|Obamacare}}
On March 23, 2010, Obama signed the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA). The act had originated in the House of Representatives and passed September 17, 2009. The act was amended and passed the Senate prior to [[Democrat]] [[Ted Kennedy]]'s passing along party lines - just a filibuster-proof majority at 60-39. In a de facto rejection of the bill, [[Massachusetts]] voters elected a [[Republican]] candidate, [[Scott Brown]], who promised to vote against the bill,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/senate/scott-brown-wins-massachusetts-senate-race.html|work=The Washington Post|author=Chris Cillizza|date=January 19, 2010|title=Scott Brown wins Massachusetts Senate special election race|language=English|format=HTML}}</ref> but another Senate vote would not occur. After Obama made a promise to issue an [[executive order]] that would ultimately prohibit the use of taxpayer subsidies to pay for [[abortion]] services,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://articles.latimes.com/2010/mar/22/nation/la-na-healthcare-passage22-2010mar22/3|work=The Los Angeles Times|format=HTML|language=English|title=House passes historic healthcare overhaul|date=March 22, 2010|author=Noam N. Levey and Janet Hook}}</ref> the [[House of Representatives]] would pass the bill as it left the Senate 219-212, with 34 Democrats and all other parties dissenting.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://articles.cnn.com/2010-03-21/politics/health.care.main_1_health-care-entire-house-democratic-caucus-pre-existing-conditions?_s=PM:POLITICS|date=March 21, 2010|author=Alan Silverleib|work=CNN|format=HTML|language=English|title=House passes health care bill on 219-212 vote}}</ref>

Amongst other things, the act mandates that the population purchase health care coverage or face punitive tax measures, and on this basis has been constitutionally challenged in the federal courts, with mixed results (three courts have upheld the act, two have declared it unconstitutional); thus, the Act is likely destined for [[Supreme Court]] reviewal.

====Gulf oil spill====
{{main article|Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster}}
President Obama authorized offshore oil drilling in the [[Gulf of Mexico]]<ref>[http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0430/Gulf-of-Mexico-oil-spill-imperils-Obama-s-offshore-drilling-plan Gulf of Mexico oil spill imperils Obama's offshore drilling plan,] By Mark Clayton, ''Christian Science Monitor'', April 30, 2010.</ref> stating, "oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills"<ref>White House Press Release, [http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-a-discussion-jobs-and-economy-charlotte-north-carolina Remarks by the President in a Discussion on Jobs and the Economy in Charlotte, North Carolina,] Office of the Press Secretary, April 02, 2010. Retrieved from whitehouse.gov 3 May 2010.</ref> and was widely criticized for his mishandling of the "[[Gulf oil spill disaster|worst environmental disaster]] in US history."<ref>[http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m4d29-Worst-environmental-disaster-in-US-history-Oil-slick-in-Gulf-of-Mexico-is-set-on-fire Worst environmental disaster in US history,] Maryann Tobin, ''Examiner'', April 29, 2010.</ref><ref>[http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/the-oil-spill-is-obamas-fault/?src=twt&twt=NytimesKrugman Conscience of a Liberal: The Oil Spill Is Obama’s Fault,] Paul Krugman, ''New York Times'', April 30, 2010.</ref>

====Don't Ask Don't Tell====
{{main article|Don't Ask Don't Tell}}
Candidate Obama promised to repeal a policy that originated in the Clinton era that prohibited inquiries into military personnel's [[sexual orientation]] while also barring "out" [[homosexuals]] from serving in the military. [[Liberals]] expressed anger when time passed and no effort to repeal the law was seen;<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/nov/21/obama-to-delay-repeal-of-dont-ask-dont-tell/|work=The Washington Times|format=HTML|title=Obama to delay ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ repeal|language=English|author=Rowan Scarborough|date=November 21, 2008}}</ref> in fact, Obama's [[justice department]] filed a brief arguing against the [[Supreme Court]] granting a [[writ of certiorari]] to a gay soldier challenging the law (the writ was not granted). In response, the soldier, James Pietrangelo II, a former Army infantryman and lawyer, said, “[Obama's] a coward, a bigot and a pathological liar. This is a guy who spent more time picking out his dog, Bo, and playing with him on the White House lawn than he has working for equality for gay people."<ref>{{cite web|work=Time Magazine|publisher=Time Inc.|format=HTML|url=http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1903545,00.html?imw=Y|title=Dismay Over Obama's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Turnabout|author=Mark Thompson|date=Jun. 09, 2009}}</ref>

On December 15th, 2010, a bill was introduced in the [[House of Representatives]] to repeal the law - it passed a day later by a vote of 250-175;<ref>{{cite web|url=http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll638.xml|title=FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 638|format=HTML|work=Office of the Clerk of the U.S. House of Representatives}}</ref> it passed the Senate three days later 65-31.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=2&vote=00281|work=The U.S. Senate|title=U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 111th Congress - 2nd Session|format=HTML|language=English}}</ref> Obama signed the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010 on December 22nd.<ref name="g dadt">{{cite web|url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/22/obama-repeals-dont-ask-dont-tell|work=The Guardian|format=HTML|language=English|title='Don't ask, don't tell' repealed as Obama signs landmark law|date=22 December 2010}}</ref>

The [[Pentagon]] itself could not immediately implement the repeal and questioned whether it would hurt combat readiness.<ref name="g dadt"/> Senator [[John McCain]], the senior Republican on the Armed Services Committee, opposed the bill, saying "It may be premature to make such a change at this time and in this manner, without further consideration of this report and further study of the issue by Congress – for of all the people we serve, one of our highest responsibilities is to the men and women of our armed services, especially those risking their lives in combat.”<ref>{{cite web|url=http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/02/mccain-on-dont-ask-dont-tell-dont-rush/|title=McCain on ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’: Don’t Rush|date=December 2nd, 2010|format=HTML|author=David M. Herszenhorn|language=English|work=The New York Times}}</ref>

===Foreign policy===
[[File:Western Wall Obama.jpg|thumb|At [[Western Wall]], Jerusalem, 2008.]]
As Senator, Obama was highly critical of President Bush and promised change. As President, Obama has tripled down in Afghanistan, widened the war into Pakistan, multiplied drone attacks, bombed Yemen and Somalia, and started an undeclared NATO war in Libya. On presidential war powers, surveillance questions, Guantanamo, detention policy and habeas corpus, Obama has similarly stayed the course, or expanded Bush's precedents. In a speech on May 19, 2011 Obama fully embraced the [[Bush Doctrine]] of preventative war.<ref>http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-news-in-obamas-speech/2011/05/19/AF4dFN7G_story.html</ref>

====Commander-in-chief====
By Obama's second year as Commander-in-Chief, 559 American troops died in Iraq and Afghanistan - significantly more than the 469 who died during Presisdent [[George W. Bush]]'s final year in office. And growing numbers of civilian contractors also have fallen. In the first half of 2010, 250 contractors reportedly died in Iraq and Afghanistan - more than the 235 military personnel who fell during the same period.<ref>http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/05/24/114662/what-price-war.html#ixzz1Nz07pg5O</ref>

=====Afghanistan=====
{{main article|Afghanistan War}}
Obama escalated troop strength<ref name="pbs">{{cite web|url=http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/obamaswar/themes/strategy.html#ixzz1LhWNImZp|title=Obama's New Strategy (March '09)|author=George Packer, Seth Jones, David Kilcullen, Rory Stewart, Andrew Exum, Col. Andrew Bacevich (Ret.)|work=PBS|language=English|format=HTML}}</ref> and defense costs in Afghanistan from $43.5 billion in George Bush's last year to $113.7 billion for 2011.<ref>Congressional Research Service, quoted in Gregory Anthony, ''What price war?''</ref> Adviser to General [[Stanley McChrystal]] David Kilcullen wrote, "One of the big strategic shifts is the use of language now which talks about Pakistan and Afghanistan as the same theater. Now we talked about Af-Pak long before the Obama administration came about, but the public use of that term, and the description of it as the Afghanistan-Pakistan campaign, sends a new message to people about how the administration is going to think about Afghanistan and Pakistan."<ref name="pbs"/> This became evident when, under the orders of Obama, a military SEALs team killed September 11th mastermind [[Osama bin Laden]] in Abottabad, Pakistan.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.newsweek.com/2011/05/05/commander-in-chief.html|title=Commander in Chief|author=Daniel Romano and Daniel Klaidman|date=May 05, 2011|work=Newsweek|publisher=The Newsweek/Daily Beast Company LLC|language=English|format=HTML}}</ref>

=====Libya=====
{{main article|Libyan uprising 2011}}
In February 2011, the political unrest that had spread through the Arab world showed up as protests in Libya. Colonel Muammar el-Qaddafi - dictator of Libya for 41 years - responded to the activism with a wave of violence.<ref name="nyt libya">{{cite web|url=http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/libya/index.html|work=The New York Times|publisher=The New York Times Inc.|format=HTML|language=English|title=Libya — Protests and Revolt (2011)}}</ref> The [[United Nations Security Council]] voted unanimously to impose [[sanctions]], and later authorized all members to take action to protect civilians. Obama, acting without approval from Congress and at the beckoning of the [[United Nations]], directed American forces to take out Libya's air defense system.<ref name="nyt libya"/> Obama later said, "[I]f we waited one more day Benghazi, a city nearly the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world."<ref>{{cite web|author=Barack Obama|url=http://www.npr.org/2011/03/28/134935452/obamas-speech-on-libya-a-responsibility-to-act|title=Obama's Speech On Libya: 'A Responsibility To Act'|date=March 28, 2011|publisher=National Public Radio ([[NPR]])|language=English|format=HTML}}</ref> [[Alan J. Kuperman]] - writing an editorial for the ''[[Boston Globe]]'' - suggested this statement was false, writing, "[I]ntervention did not prevent genocide, because no such bloodbath was in the offing. To the contrary, by emboldening rebellion, US interference has prolonged Libya’s civil war and the resultant suffering of innocents."<ref name="kuperman">{{cite web|author=Alan J. Kuperman|work=The Boston Globe|url=http://articles.boston.com/2011-04-14/bostonglobe/29418371_1_rebel-stronghold-civilians-rebel-positions|title=False pretense for war in Libya?|date=April 14, 2011}}</ref> Kuperman, a professor of public affairs at the University of Texas who authored a book called ''The Limits of Humanitarian Intervention'', further stated that the rebels had tricked the world into thinking a bloodbath was at hand and that Obama had lied to the American people in order to act on this theory.<ref name="kuperman"/>
<blockquote>
Khadafy [never] threaten civilian massacre in Benghazi, as Obama alleged. The “no mercy’’ warning, of March 17, targeted rebels only, as reported by The New York Times, which noted that Libya’s leader promised amnesty for those “who throw their weapons away.’’ Khadafy even offered the rebels an escape route and open border to Egypt, to avoid a fight “to the bitter end.’’ <ref> [http://politicalcartel.org/2011/04/17/libya-and-the-obama-doctrine/ Libya and the “Obama Doctrine”.] </ref>
</blockquote>

=====Iraq=====
{{main article|Operation Iraqi Freedom}}
Obama campaigned on a promise to end the War in Iraq, however 50,000 U.S. troops remain in the country.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://articles.cnn.com/2010-08-31/politics/obama.oval.office.address_1_iraq-requests-united-states-and-iraq-troop-surge?_s=PM:POLITICS|work=CNN|title=Obama: 'Time to turn the page' as Iraq combat mission ends|date=August 31, 2010|language=English|format=HTML}}</ref>

=====Guantanamo Bay=====
{{main article|Guantanamo Bay}}
One of Obama's campaign promises was that he would close the American detention center at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba - detainees would be flown to other countries while the ones awaiting trial would enter the American court system. Two days after taking office he signed an order directing the military to do so.<ref name="salon">{{cite web|url=http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/04/25/obama_guantanamo_rhetoric|work=Salon|title=The Obama/Gitmo timeline|author=Natasha Lennard|format=HTML|language=English}}</ref> But, in November 2009 Obama admitted that his self imposed deadline of January 2010 would be missed, and in March 2011 the president went back on his campaign promise, signing an executive order to create a formal system of indefinite detention for the prisoners.<ref name="salon"/>

==See also==

*[[Political positions of Barack Obama]]
*[[Barack Obama and uncharitableness]]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

{{USPresidents}}
{{2008 presidential candidates}}
[[Category: Barack Hussein Obama]]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Obama, Barack Hussein}}

Barack Hussein Obama

2011-06-27T21:29:33Z

Ameda: Undo revision 883536 by Truediesel (talk)

Conservapedia:Debate Topics

2011-06-27T20:48:36Z

Ameda: /* Scientific debates */

'''Debate topic suggestions, organized so that it's not necessary to delete them.'''

(Note: If some topic is miscategorized, it can be cut and pasted without affecting the relevant links.)

==Philosophical Debates==
# [[Debate:Can Conservapedia become the next Wikipedia, is this good or bad]]
# [[Debate:If there is no objective truth, then is the claim "there is no objective truth" also not an objective truth?]]
# [[Conservapedia:Does History Matter?|Does History Matter?]]
# [[Debate:Is a first cause of a process necessary, always possible, or sometimes impossible?]]
# [[Debate:Can Objectivism develop beyond Ayn Rand's original formulation?]]
# [[Debate:Can any man live without some code of morality?]]
# [[Debate:Does the universe include everything, or does something outside the universe exist?]]
# [[Debate:Why is there something rather than nothing?]]
# [[Conservapedia:Stem Cells| Embryonic Stem Cells: Why or why not?]]
# [[Debate:Why Reason?]]
# [[Debate:Should pharmacists be forced to fill legal prescriptions they personally object to on moral grounds?]]
# [[Debate:What is the real love?]]
# [[Debate:who created God?]]
# [[Debate: Why have conservatives let themselves get a bad name?]]
# [[Debate: Is it possible for God to be timeless?]]
# [[Debate: Is it possible for man to live a moral life without religion?]]
# [[Debate: How do conservatives view the Open Source movement and software?]]
# [[Debate: At what point does "Human" life begin?]]
# [[Debate: Are fear of death and sorrow compatible with faith?]]

==Religious debates==
# [[Debate:Does God punish sinners for eternity?]]
# [[Debate: Should certain books be banned from libraries?]]
# [[Debate:Should the first story of creation be read allegorically or literally?]]
# [[Debate:Is Scientology a false religion?]]
# [[Debate:Why do Moses, Ezra, Jesus, and Paul all disagree on divorce?]]
# [[Debate:Did Jesus ever claim to be God?]]
# [[Debate:Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.]]
# [[Debate:Was Jesus born in the right time and place?]]
# [[Debate:What does Christianity say about homosexuality?]]
# [[Debate:If God does not exist, can anything be morally wrong?]]
# [[Debate:Did God create evil?]]
# [[Debate:Which Christian denomination is the most true to the central teachings of Christianity?]]
# [[Debate:If Jesus were alive to day, where on the political spectrum would he fall?]]
# [[Debate:Should Religion Play a Large Role in Modern Societies?]]
# [[Debate:Does the Bible (Old and the New Testament) have the infallible words of God?]]
# [[Debate:AntiSemitism]]
# [[Debate:Does Intelligent Design deny the Existence of God?]]
# [[Debate:Could God create a rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?]]
# [[Debate:What is the relationship between religion and the human tendency to kill each other?]]
# [[Debate:Natural Disaster versus Act of God]]
# [[Debate:What is the Sabbath day?]]
# [[Debate:Is it possible to be a conservative and not a religious person or even an atheist?]]
# [[Debate:Why do we still perform Baptisms?]]
# [[Debate:Does the Resurrection negate Gods Sacrifice of his only son?]]
# [[Debate:If most Muslims learned their religion from their parents, just like us Christians, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?]]
# [[Debate:If_most_Christians_learned_their_religion_from_their_parents%2C_just_like_us_Muslims%2C_they_will_probably_be_hard_to_convert._So_what_can_we_do_to_save_their_souls%3F|Debate:If most Christians learned their religion from their parents, just like us Muslims, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?]]
# [[Debate:Does mainstream Islam endorse violence?]]
# [[Debate:Is religion morally wrong?]]
# [[Debate:Does the Bible display poor ethics and morals?]]
# [[Debate:Why the Bible|Debate:What makes the Bible a reliable source of knowledge besides tradition?]]
# [[Debate:Why should we be afraid of God?]]
# [[Debate:Do conservative Christians have an unquestioning faith which is comparable to that of the Party in the book 1984?]]
# [[Debate:Antisemitism]]
# [[Debate:Are Christianity and the Bible superior to other religions and scriptures?]]
# [[Debate:Is "Coercive Interrogation" consistent with Christian Values?]]
# [[Debate:Should all access to Conservapedia be banned on Sundays?]]
# [[Debate:Mary Magdalene - First Witness to the Resurrection - Significance?]]
# [[Debate:Was Christ a fundamentalist?]]
# [[Debate:Atheism vs. Deism]]
# [[Debate:Atheism vs. Pastafarianism]]
# [[Debate:Are Young Earth Creationists detracting others from the Faith?]]
# [[Debate:Is there 1 God or are there many gods?]]
# [[Debate: Can you be a true Christian and believe in evolution?]]
# [[Debate:Should gay marriage be allowed?]]
# [[Debate:Is atheism a religion?]]
# [[Debate: If not naturalism, how do we decide which supernatural explanation is correct?]]
# [[Debate: Are Catholics Christians?]]
# [[Debate: Do Atheist believe they have a soul?]]
# [[Debate:Were Judas' actions necessary and foreordained?]]
# [[Debate: Is it possible to voluntarily convert one's religion?]]
# [[Debate: Can Christianity exist without Apostles and Prophets?]]
# [[Debate: What do you think about the violence in the Bible?]]
# [[Debate: Could Christian denominations exist without the Catholic Church?]]
# [[Debate: Which version of the Bible should be used as the authoritative reference on Conservapedia?]]
# [[Debate: Should Christians celebrate Christmas?]]
#[[Debate:Either God is indecisive or the world's major religions have ALL got it wrong]]
#[[Debate:Creationist]]
#[[Debate:Did Joan of Arc truly hear voices?]]
#[[Debate:Do ALL suicides go to hell?]]
#[[Debate:Epicurus' Trilemma]]
#[[Debate: Why does God care if we worship Him or not? Is it His ego?]]
#[[Debate: Can God explain all of the conspiracy theories and all other phenonmena?]]
#[[Debate: Should Christians be more forthright in stating that Allah is not the same being as the Judeo-Christian God?]]

==Historical debates==
# [[Debate:Was Benjamin Franklin a deist?]]
# [[Debate:Was the European colonization of the Americas good for the native people?]]
# [[Debate:Was President George H. W. Bush wrong to leave Saddam in power in 1991?]]
# [[Debate:Which was worse? the Civil War and it's effects or slavery?]]
# [[Debate:Why are most actors turned politicians Republicans?]]
# [[Debate: Did the Founding Fathers intend to apply their personal faith to the nation "As an institution"?]]

==Political debates==
# [[Debate:Does Abstinence Only Education help or hurt us?]]
# [[Debate:Is homosexuality responsible for totalitarianism?]]
# [[Debate: Did the Founders have a religious motive?]]
# [[Debate: To what extent should we have obscenity laws]]
# [[Debate:Why do we still have an embargo on Cuba?]]
# [[Debate:Has Britain Declined?]]
# [[Debate:Is illegal immigration control the answer to illegal immigration?]]
# [[Debate:Has Britain become the 51st State of the US?]]
# [[Debate:You think these Phd's are nuts?]]
# [[Debate:Does the European Union pose a threat to the United States?]]
# [[Debate:Which is true; progressive Liberal or regressive liberal]]
# [[Debate:Define torture]]
# [[Debate:Should the United States have entered World War I?]]
# [[Debate:Should the United States have entered World War II?]]
# [[Debate:Should the United States have eliminated communism in North Korea|Debate:Should the United States have eliminated communism in North Korea as General Douglas MacArthur wanted?]]
# [[Debate:Was the United States right to drop atomic bombs so quickly on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?]]
# [[Debate:Was it wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?|Debate:If President Roosevelt had known about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, would it have been wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?]]
# [[Debate:Is gun-control the answer to crimes involving guns?]]
# [[Debate:Was world war inevitable?]]
# [[Debate:Does "free trade" increase wealth rather than simply redistribute it?]]
# [[Debate:Is it even possible to install democracy in a Muslim country?]]
# [[Debate:Is democracy even possible in Iraq?]]
# [[Debate:Should we have given the Panama Canal back to Panama?]]
# [[Debate:Should the United States leave the United Nations?]]
# [[Debate:Crusades... Good or Bad?]]
# [[Debate:Was American soldier Michael New right to refuse to fight wearing part of a United Nations uniform?]] See [[Michael New]]
# [[Debate:Which is a more powerful ideology, Islam or communism?]]
# [[Debate:Should the United States intervene in small countries to defeat communism there?]]
# [[Debate:Should public displays of the 10 Commandments be allowed under the constitution?]]
# [[Debate:Which has the best philosophy of education: the public school system, private schools, or the home school movement?]]
# [[Debate:Should We Support Democrats For Life.org?]]
# [[Debate:Women in the Military?]]
# [[Debate:Should students learn a foreign language?]]
# [[Debate:Why does the right side of the political spectrum tend to be more religous?|Debate:Why does the right side of the political spectrum tend to be more religious?]]
# [[Debate:Should there be a consistent standard on human rights applied to left and right?]]
# [[Debate:Should American companies be allowed to send their own troops into a war which America is participating in?]]
# [[Debate:Giuliani's lack of social conservative viewpoints should not stop you from voting for him.]]
# [[Debate:Is President Bush good for America?]]
# [[Debate:Is the Iraq War a success?]]
# [[Debate:Does single sex schooling promotes homesexuality?|Debate:Does Single sex schooling promote homosexuality?]]
# [[Debate:Does the media really have a liberal bias?]]
# [[Debate:What kind of leader will Democrats make if they run from debates on Fox?]]
# [[Debate:Are the Democrats capable of fighting terrorism?]]
# [[Debate:Can a rogue nation be thought of as a sovereign nation?]]
# [[Debate:Has Russia reinstalled stealth communism?]]
# [[Debate:Do we all know what Democrat Presidential candidates stand for yet?]]
# [[Debate:Define Civil War]]
# [[Debate:Should gun sales to terror suspects be allowed?]]
# [[Debate:Is Darwinism liberal or is it conservative?]]
# [[Debate:Why did God place most of the world's oil in politically unstable places?]]
# [[Debate:Restoring the USA image in the world, just a fancy phrase that means zilch?]]
# [[Debate:Placing the blame on how America got polarized]]
# [[Debate:Is most government criticism really patriotic?]]
# [[Debate:Is environmentalism mostly about preserving natural resources?]]
# [[Debate:Third Party Debate]]
# [[Debate:Preferred Democrat for the White House?]]
# [[Debate:Does Republican equal conservative? Does Democrat equal liberal?]]
# [[Debate:Obama's preacher.]]
# [[Debate:Should the United States begin Colonizing Space?]]
# [[Debate:Should the federal government have the power to define marriage?]]
# [[Debate:The Declaration of Independence or Interdependence?]]
# [[Debate:Should the U.S.A. abide by a withdrawal timetable if the Iraqi Parliament votes for one?]]
# [[Debate:Should U.S. troops be subject to Iraqi law if that allows our continued presence there?]]
# [[Debate:Should government restrictions on smoking be tightened or rolled back?]]
# [[Debate:Is Sarah Palin an asset or a liability to John McCain's candidacy?]]
# [[Debate:Is a candidate's military record relevant anymore?]]
# [[Debate:Should politicians be allowed to misspeak?]]
# [[Debate: What is sufficient proof that Obama is a Muslim?]]
# [[Debate:Is Obama a Muslim?]]
# [[Debate:Was McCain's threat to pull out of the debates a political stunt?]]
# [[Debate:If Obama Was Conservative]]
# [[Debate:What level of Gun Control is appropriate?]]
# [[Debate:Is the Bush administration's Conscience Rule a step forward or backward for U.S. Healthcare?]]
# [[Debate: Why do political views appear to be correlated with others?]]
#[[Debate:What should be America's policy toward Islam]]?
#[[Debate:Is the American Occupation of the Hawaiian Islands justified?]]
#[[Debate:Was the American involvement in the Vietnam War justified?]]
#[[Debate:Was the North right to prevent Southern secession in the US Civil War?]]
#[[Debate:Is the 2009 Stimulus Plan the right approach, and if not what would be?]]
# [[Debate:Is Obama being unfairly criticized, or is too much being expected of our new president?]]
# [[Is it possible to be conservative and know there is no possibility of there ever being a "God" and/or higher being?]]
# [[Debate:Is Obama an Atheist?]]
# [[Would anybody consider President Barry Soetoro a Muslim?]]
# [[Debate:Illegal Immigrants: Is it too late for US?]]
# [[Debate: Was Osama really killed in Abbottabad?]]

==Economic debates==
# [[Debate: Can there be price controls without shortages?]]
# [[Debate: Counterfeiting: A Moral Hazard]]
#[[Debate:Should Americans be required to buy health insurance?]]
# [[Is our freedom to consume what we want whenever we want worth the cost (i.e. environmental, social, economic, etc.)?]]

==Scientific debates==
# [[Debate:Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that bigotry is a necessary self-defense mechanism?]]
# [[Debate:Is Darwinian natural selection compatible with Marxism?]]
# [[Debate:Is the theory of macroevolution true?]]
# [[Debate:Is Giving Birth the Bible Way Better?]]
# [[Debate:Should Creationism/Intelligent design be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution in public schools?]]
# [[Debate:Is global warming evident, and if so, is this the fault of man, and how must man stop it?]]
# [[Debate:If the universe is young and it takes light millions of years to reach us from far off stars, how can we see them?]]
# [[Debate:God, Earth and Global Warming]]
# [[Debate:Is the evidence in favor of evolution convincing?|Is the evidence in favor of evolution convincing?]]
# [[Debate:If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?|Debate:If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?]]
# [[Debate:Is Relativity in direct conflict with the Genesis account?]]
# [[Debate:Who feels that scientific related articles should only reference published research papers instead of websites when dealing with research instead of application?]]
# [[Debate:If it could be unambiguously demonstrated that man is NOT the most evolved animal, then would this support or refute ther idea of Creation by God?|Debate:If it could be unambiguously demonstrated that man is NOT the most evolved animal]]
# [[Debate:Why are God's works always questioned?]]
# [[Debate:Are there any elements of choice, when it comes to carrying out homosexual acts?|Debate:Are there any elements of choice]]
# [[Debate:Listing the Earth's most pressing needs in urgent order of fixing]]
# [[Debate:Is homosexuality a mental illness?]]
# [[Debate:Can the science of evolution be separated from the philosophy of it?]]
# [[Debate:_15_questions_for_evolutionists.]]

==Debates about Conservapedia==
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia representing a conservative POV or a Young Earth Creationist POV?]]
# [[Debate:The liberal quotient of Conservapedia; what is it? Does it matter?]]
# [[Debate:Does bias impair Wikipedia's reliability?]]
# [[Debate:Should the term list entries be included in Conservapedia's entry count?]]
# [[Debate:How should Conservapedia work to avoid having a conservative bias?]]
# [[Debate:Can Conservapedia Succeed?]]
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia fair and balanced?]]
# [[Debate:How can we protect Conservapedia by distinguishing real conservative encyclopedia articles from satires written by liberals?]]
# [[Debate:What exactly is Conservapedia?]]
# [[Debate:Was the media attention needed?]]
# [[Debate:Which is true; progressive Liberal or regressive liberal]]
# [[Debate:Where do you personally look for facts and information on topics "When did Brahms live" or "Why did Monet paint grainstacks?"]]
# [[Debate:Is it okay for Conservapedia to have biased articles?]]
# [[Debate:Who deletes entire discussion items from here? And why?]]
# [[Debate:Is the use of copyrighted photographs without permission stealing?]]
# [[Debate:Is it tasteless for Conservapedia to critique the Virginia Tech poem on the Main Page?]]
# [[Debate:Has anyone ever been been banned for pointing out that many of the other entries on this site are in need of citation and evidence to back up statements?]]
# [[Debate:Does an encyclopedia define complex subjects, or insert more bias into them?]]
# [[Debate:Do sysops block editing on pages when it seems their opponents are making strong points?]]
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia a 'Trustworthy Encyclopedia'?]]
# [[Debate:Does altering the record of debate in a wiki 'Encyclopedia' render the entire thing a farce?]]
# [[Debate:Democrats next move, link more stories of heartache like those from Kansas to Gulf Coast.]]
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia blinkered?|Is Conservapedia blinkered?]]
# [[Debate:Does Conservapedia censor opponents the way Expelled says ID advocates are censored?]]
# [[Debate:Is the Conservapedia Logo in violation of US Flag Code?]]
# [[Debate:The 90/10 rule exists soley to squash debate, and should be eliminated]]
# [[Debate:What will Conservapedia be like if Barack Obama wins the election?]]
# [[Debate:Which is more important, economic or social conservatism?]]
# [[Debate:Should the Conservapedia logo be changed?]]
# [[Debate:Can/May/Should online wiki encyclopedias copy from each other?]]
# [[Debate:Is it time to propagate Conservapedia in other languages/countries?]]
# [[Debate:Should the loser of debates be blocked?]]
# [[Debate:Is the Conservapedia description of liberals heavy-handed?]]

==Funny, maybe?==

# [[Debate:Are cats just useless Dogs]]
# [[Debate:Was the shooting at Virginia Tech somehow President Bush's fault?]]
# [[Debate:Are video games getting better or worse as graphics, sound, and gameplay complexity improve?]]
# [[Debate:Favorite old time radio show]]

==Other==
# [[Debate:Are alcohol, marijuana, and nicotine gateway drugs?]]
# [[Debate:Is Rap music torture?]]
# [[Debate:Should marijuana be legalized?]]
# [[Debate:What are the lessons that we should take away from the Milgram Experiment]]
# [[Debate:Does the Theory of Evolution promote atheism?]]
# [[Debate:Mall Shootings]]
# [[Debate:Creationist]]
# [[Debate:Is the Theory of Evolution a conspiricy?]]
# [[Debate:How should we view the fact leading scientists do not believe in god?]]
# [[Debate:Does modern music negatively influence children]]
# [[Debate:Propaganda in childrens' television]]
# [[Debate:What Is Music?]]
# [[Debate:Why are there so few homosexual athletes]]
# [[Debate:Relationship between Socialism and athletic performance]]

{{Conservapedia}}

[[Category:Conservapedia]]

Gabrielle Giffords

2011-01-08T21:01:34Z

Ameda:

{{Officeholder
|name=Gabrielle Giffords
|image=G000554.jpg‎
|party=[[Democrat]]
|spouse=Jim Kolbe
|religion=Jewish
|offices=
{{Officeholder/representative
|state=Arizona
|district=8th
|terms=January 3, 2007 - Present
|preceded=Mark E. Kelly
|former=n
|succeeded=
}}

}}

'''Gabrielle Giffords''' (born June 8, 1970 in Tucson, Arizona) served as the [[Democrat]]ic U.S. Representative from [[Arizona]]'s 8th congressional district, having been first elected in 2006. On January 8, 2011, she was shot along with 12 others by a gunman while holding a public event outside of a grocery store in Tucson.[http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/gabrielle-giffords-Congresswoman-Shot/2011/01/08/id/382236] Initial reports reported her as dead but these were premature and mistaken.[http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/08/arizona-congresswoman-reportedly-shot-public-event/] She was a member of the Armed Services Committee, Foreign Affairs Committee, and the Science and Technology Committee.

Giffords attended Cornell University and Scripps College in California. She was elected to the State House in 2000, and two years later became the youngest woman ever elected to the Arizona Senate.

==External links==
*[http://giffords.house.gov/ House website]
*[http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Gabby_Giffords.htm On the Issues]

==References==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Giffords, Gabrielle}}
[[Category:Former United States Representatives]]
[[Category:Democratic Party]]

Gabrielle Giffords

2011-01-08T20:54:36Z

Ameda: Page will be updated as more info is released and confirmed.

{{Officeholder
|name=Gabrielle Giffords
|image=G000554.jpg‎
|party=[[Democrat]]
|spouse=Jim Kolbe
|religion=Jewish
|offices=
{{Officeholder/representative
|state=Arizona
|district=8th
|terms=January 3, 2007 - January 8, 2011
|preceded=Mark E. Kelly
|former=n
|succeeded=
}}

}}

'''Gabrielle Giffords''' (born June 8, 1970 in Tucson, Arizona) served as the [[Democrat]]ic U.S. Representative from [[Arizona]]'s 8th congressional district, having been first elected in 2006. On January 8, 2011, she was shot along with 12 others by a gunman while holding a public event outside of a grocery store in Tucson.[http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/gabrielle-giffords-Congresswoman-Shot/2011/01/08/id/382236] Initial reports reported her as dead but these were premature and mistaken.[http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/08/arizona-congresswoman-reportedly-shot-public-event/] Also, reports are confirming that an aide to the congresswoman and a federal judge, John Roll were killed in the attack. She was a member of the Armed Services Committee, Foreign Affairs Committee, and the Science and Technology Committee.

Giffords attended Cornell University and Scripps College in California. She was elected to the State House in 2000, and two years later became the youngest woman ever elected to the Arizona Senate.

==External links==
*[http://giffords.house.gov/ House website]
*[http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Gabby_Giffords.htm On the Issues]

==References==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Giffords, Gabrielle}}
[[Category:Former United States Representatives]]
[[Category:Democratic Party]]

Gabrielle Giffords

2011-01-08T20:41:45Z

Ameda: Lets wait for the whole story, its way too early and chaotic for this type of info to be included.

{{Officeholder
|name=Gabrielle Giffords
|image=G000554.jpg‎
|party=[[Democrat]]
|spouse=Jim Kolbe
|religion=Jewish
|offices=
{{Officeholder/representative
|state=Arizona
|district=8th
|terms=January 3, 2007 - January 8, 2011
|preceded=Mark E. Kelly
|former=n
|succeeded=
}}

}}

'''Gabrielle Giffords''' (born June 8, 1970 in Tucson, Arizona) served as the [[Democrat]]ic U.S. Representative from [[Arizona]]'s 8th congressional district, having been first elected in 2006. On January 8, 2011, she was shot along with 12 others by a gunman while holding a public event outside of a grocery store in Tucson. She was a member of the Armed Services Committee, Foreign Affairs Committee, and the Science and Technology Committee.

Giffords attended Cornell University and Scripps College in California. She was elected to the State House in 2000, and two years later became the youngest woman ever elected to the Arizona Senate.

==External links==
*[http://giffords.house.gov/ House website]
*[http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Gabby_Giffords.htm On the Issues]

==References==
<references/>

{{DEFAULTSORT:Giffords, Gabrielle}}
[[Category:Former United States Representatives]]
[[Category:Democratic Party]]

Counterexamples to Evolution

2010-05-16T02:56:41Z

Ameda: Undo revision 778696 by Bagabo (Talk) The Talk page is the place for this, not the article itself.

[[File:Darwin_monkey_cartoon.jpg|thumb|180px|Caricature of [[Charles Darwin]]. To date, no fossils of ''H. darwinicus orangutanishicus'' have been found.]]
A scientific theory proven by the logical principal of deduction cannot permit any counterexamples. In order to be true, the [[theory of evolution|theory of evolution by natural selection acting upon random mutation]] must be able to explain the origins of '''''all''''' living things in terms of a purely naturalistic view. '''If any of the counterexamples listed below is correct, then the theory of evolution fails'''. Moreover, if there is merely a 5% chance that each of these examples is correct, then the odds that these are ''all'' incorrect and that evolution is true is infinitesimally small (~8.53% with 48 examples).
==Counterexamples==
===Based on statistics===
# Lack of genetic diversity among the ''Homo sapiens'' species. Were evolution and the old earth true, the human population would show a much larger genetic variance.<ref>http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/descent.html#rpafAHIwKHS7</ref>
# Parsimonious repetition of design elements throughout creation, e.g. the eye's appearance in remarkably different species. For such complex structures to [[convergent evolution|arise repeatedly via evolution]] is [[statistical_impossibility | impossible]], as evolution is an inherently random and historically contingent process.<ref>http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i1/homology.asp</ref>
# ''Pleiotropy'', the fact that a change of a single gene can have several different effects, renders the "improvement" of animals by random mutation impossible, as any mutation with a potentially beneficial effect will be coupled with one or more other potentially lethal effects.<ref>http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/aid/v4/n1/beneficial-mutations-in-bacteria</ref>
# The development of feathers, which could not have conceivably "grown" from the scales of dinosaurs<ref>http://icb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/40/4/687.pdf</ref><ref>[http://palaeoblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/early-evolution-of-feathers.html]</ref>
# For evolution to be true, every male dog, cat, horse, elephant, giraffe, fish and bird had to have coincidentally evolved with a female alongside it (over billions of years) with fully evolved compatible reproductive parts and a desire to mate, otherwise the species couldn't keep going. <ref>http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=90743</ref>

===Lack of mechanism===
# Animals flee to high ground ''before'' a deadly tsunami hits their shoreline, defying any plausible [[materialistic]] explanation.<ref>http://www.deseretnews.com/article/600105348/Utah-scientific-Did-animals-sense--and-flee--the-tsunamis-in-S-Asia.html</ref>
# Mutations cause a loss of information, rendering it mathematically impossible for mutations to advance the complexity of life. Similarly, entropy (disorder) increases over time, making it impossible for order to increase on its own.
# "Social insects" such as bees, ants, and termites, which have extremely ornate caste systems. Where an insect fits is determined by its diet when young. Evolution requires that both the genetics for the various castes, the genetics for caste determination, and the genetics for ''behavior'' allowing caste determination all appeared simultaneously. Akin to the concept of [[irreducible complexity]], but on a higher (social) order, this is impossible given random chance.
# [[Ant]]s and other social [[insect]]s, for at least two reasons: First, their complex social structure is evidence of [[intelligent design]]; second, since the overwhelming majority of individuals are workers and do not reproduce, they cannot perpetuate their genetic material, as evolution requires.
# evolution cannot explain artistic beauty, such as the brilliant autumn foliage and staggering array of beautiful marine fish, both of which originated before any human to view them; this lacks any plausible evolutionary explanation
# Evolution cannot explain how beauty is in the eye of the beholder, if evolution said that beauty were useful then we would all expect to see the same things as beautiful.
# the fact that [[cicada]]s appear like clockwork every 13 years for some species, and every 17 years for others<ref>http://inside.msj.edu/academics/faculty/kritskg/cicada/faq.html</ref>
# the extraordinary migration patterns of butterflies and birds, which lack any plausible materialistic explanation<ref>[[migration]]</ref>
# Evolution does not account for the immense amount of [[information]] in the genome, as well as the origin of the information-processing systems in the cell. Information always has a sender, who must be God in this case.
# the manner in which chickens return to their chicken coops at the same time, and enter the chicken coops in the same order, each day
# Symbiosis - There are many examples where creatures rely on each other to survive which could not arise through evolution. Grass cannot survive without a certain fungus that helps it fix nitrogen from the atmosphere and the fungus can't survive without the grass. They must have appeared on earth at the same time.<ref>[http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070410084136.htm]</ref>
# Consciousness - No animal displays self-awareness (such as clothing), morality, tool-making, or self-sacrifice to the same extent that man does. It is unclear how a random mutation could have arisen which accounts for humanity's significantly higher cognitive ability.
# Humans exhibit behaviors such as performing [[science]], creating [[art]] and [[music]], [[dance|dancing]], and a number of other intellectual and artistic behaviors which could not have been produced by random mutations. There is no known evolutionary reason why these should be favored.
# Trematode parasites, like many other kinds, lack a plausible evolutionary phylogeny, though they can easily be explained by a teleological design.<ref>http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/36/36_4/trematodes.html</ref>
# In addition, evolution cannot explain the many complex sex-determining systems. For example, in most mammals, females have two X chromosomes whereas males have an X and Y chromosome, but in birds, many insects, and other organisms, the situation is reversed. In flies, sex is determined the ratio of non-sex chromosomes to X chromosomes (so that males have only one X whereas females have two). It is impossible for evolution to create these new sex-determining systems ''ex nihilo''.
# Several species of fish in the Arctic ocean have chemicals in their blood that essentially act as anti-freeze. Evolution requires gradual change, leaving no plausible explanation as to how the fish survived before developing this trait.

===Maladaptation===
# [[Jellyfish]] in [[Hawaii]] swarm to the beaches roughly 9 to 10 days after each full [[moon]], for no apparent evolutionary reason<ref>http://www.aloha.com/~lifeguards/jelyfish.html</ref>
# Variation in chromosome count (ploidy) is impossible in evolution. One member of a species with 2 sets of chromosomes cannot mate with a member with 4. Thus, for the chromosome count of a species to change (and thus account for the variety of counts in nature) a vast portion of a species would have to evolve a new chromosome set simultaneously.
# The [[human]] [[prostate]] surrounds the [[urethra]] and in doing so provides many benefits. Evolutionists consider the structure to be poor design, which should mean that natural selection would have eliminated that design.<ref>Sarfati, Jonathan, [http://creationontheweb.com/content/view/5757 The Prostate Gland–is it ‘badly designed’?], 1st August 2008 (Creation Ministries International)</ref>
# Inability to account for widely observed altruism among animals, as it ''reduces'' an animal's ability to survive. “The existence of altruism between different species — which is not uncommon — remains an obstinate enigma.”<ref>''In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood'' [http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/ReferencesandNotes12.html]</ref> Not surprisingly, atheist evolutionists have done their utmost to ''deny'' animal altruism (See especially [[Richard Dawkins]]' ''[[The Selfish Gene]]'', which denies altruism without providing any evidence to back up his enormous claim)
# Too many deleterious mutations. Each generation of humans has far more negative mutations than the posited natural selection can remove. Evolution is thus impossible as species would become nonviable long before they could diverge.<ref>http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/descent.html#rpafAHIwKHS7</ref>

===Wrong prediction===
# "the loss and addition of large DNA sequence blocks are present in humans and gorillas, but not in chimps" even though "the gorilla is lower on the primate tree than the chimp and supposedly more distant to humans. How could these large blocks of DNA--from an evolutionary perspective--appear first in gorillas, disappear in chimps, and then reappear in humans?"<ref>http://www.icr.org/article/4624/</ref>
# Lack of any vestigial organs in the human body. While evolutionists used to claim dozens or even hundreds of human traits and organs were vestigial, useless items disused through evolution, we now know what functions they all have, including the appendix (the classic example). <ref>Ken Ham and Carl Wieland, ''Your Appendix: It's There for a Reason.'' (1997)</ref>
# Lack of any demonstrable vestigial parts of the human [[genome]]. While evolutionists often claim that regions of the genome are "junk DNA" and would not have been placed there by a designer, none have actually shown this to be true, and much so-called "junk DNA" has been shown to be useful.<ref>http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/junkdna.html</ref>
# While evolutionists argue that there are examples of "[[argument from poor design|bad design]]" in the bodies of many organisms, such as "flaws" in the human spine and sinus system, evolutionists fail to realize that, by their own theory, natural selection should have removed these things! The simpler explanation, that these represent degeneration from an original, created perfect form, is the superior one.
# We have the perfect number of [[teeth]] to fit in our [[mouth]]s. While creationism perfectly accounts for that result, evolutionism predicts a contrary result: As our [[face]]s evolved from chimpanzee-like faces to human faces, the shortening of the muzzle would have caused the teeth to become overcrowded in the mouth.
# Human fertility is rapidly declining, disproving evolutionary improvement in humans and also suggesting a brief timeline for human existence.

===Missing fossils===
# the remarkable whale, which is a mammal, has no plausible evolutionary ancestor
# No transitional forms appear for horses, instead different horse like animals appear in the fossil record distinct<ref>Ray comfort, forward to the 150th anniversary edition of On the Origin of Species</ref>
# the enormous gaps and lack of intermediate species in the [[fossils|fossil]] record.
# No clear transition from unicellular to multicellular organisms.
# Mammalian fur and body hair. There is no known evolutionary pathway for the development of fur, and no fossil evidence of hair evolving from scales, even though it survives very well.<ref>http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/40/40_4/Bergman.htm</ref>
# A lack of any evolution from prehistoric forms has been demonstrated for many species.

===Paradoxical fossils===
# The fact that new discoveries, such as ''[[Raptorex]],'' routinely call into question key dogmas of evolutionism and require the "immutable" laws of evolution to be reassessed. By contrast, creationism has prevailed in the face of scientific discoveries for six thousand years.

=== Irreducible Complexity===
# the [[immune system]] is irreducibly complex, as without one which is thoroughly developed, an organism would not be able to resist any infection<ref>Behe, Michael J. 1996. ''Darwin's Black Box'', New York: The Free Press, pp. 117-139.</ref><ref>[http://biology.creighton.edu/courses/BIO432/Evolution%2005.htm]</ref>
# the extraordinarily long neck of the [[giraffe]]. It serves no function (the theory that giraffes use the long neck to eat from tree trunks was never true). The presence of valves in the neck (which are necessary because of its great length) raises a question of how one could have arisen without the other being there first (see the irreducible complexity argument).<ref>[http://www1.pacific.edu/~e-buhals/GIRAFFE2.htm]</ref>
# The development of wings, as intermediary wing stubs would have no use, and be a competitive disadvantage.
# The [[flagellum]] a multi-part cellular motor which fails to function if a single part is removed is the classic example of [[irreducible complexity]] and cannot arise according to the theory of evolution.<ref>[http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html]</ref>
# Many [[bat]]s which live in caves employ a type of sonar in order to navigate and find prey. Evolutionists propose that the bat evolved from a squirrel-like animal, but a squirrel would have no use for a sonar system. The bats can't fly without sonar, and an animal that can't fly doesn't need it. Therefore, bats must have been created with fully functioning sonar and flight.
# The organ and brain development required for retinal imagery require a base level of complexity, making a primitive form useless and impossible under evolution.<ref>http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/43/43_1/retinal_imagery.htm</ref>

===Uncategorized===
# [[Pterosaurs]]; a scientist recently stated that they could not have flown, but why then did they evolve wings?<ref>http://www.physorg.com/news142086647.html</ref>
# No other animal exhibits [[religion]]. A far better explanation than random mutations is that humans were given the capacity to be religious by a loving God who wants a relationship with His creations.
# Evolution requires that random mutations can cause one [[kind]] to change into another, but this has never been observed.
# The existence of two symmetrical kidneys, which are unnecessary in most people, lacks a plausible evolutionary explanation based on functionality alone. Because evolution falsehoods mislead most people into thinking they need their second kidney, "the average waiting time for the organs from a deceased donor in the United States is five years" and "3,916 patients waiting for a kidney in 2006 died before one became available."<ref>[http://www.scienceline.org/2009/03/04/levitan-health-living-kidney-donor-transplant/] This article observes, "As a recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine found, living kidney donors live as long or longer and enjoy better quality of life than the general population."</ref>

== Logical Conclusion ==
As scientific theories require that their laws be immutable, the existence of merely one counterexample disproves the truth of the rule. Thus, if evolution fails to account for any one of these items (or countless others), it must be discarded.

{{evolution}}

== See also ==

*[[Counterexamples to an Old Earth]]
*[[Counterexamples to Relativity]]

== References ==
{{reflist|2}}

[[category:Evolution]]

Green tea

2010-05-16T02:10:30Z

Ameda: Fixed grammar.

Traditionally popular in China and Japan, green tea is less processed than [[black tea]] or [[oolong tea]]. Green tea is steamed, fried, or baked shortly after harvest to arrest the process of oxidization. This is what gives it a vegetal or grassy flavor. Green tea is becoming increasingly popular in [[North America]].

Counterexamples to Evolution

2010-05-16T01:56:22Z

Ameda: Undo revision 778650 by Bagabo (Talk) Please do not edit according to ideology.

Tiger

2010-05-16T01:54:46Z

Ameda: Undo revision 778649 by BrendanCook (Talk) Tiger moth airplane is named after the insect. Please do research before adding something.

{{Taxonomy
|name=Tiger
|image=Tiger.jpg
|caption=
|superkingdom=
|kingdom= Animalia
|subkingdom=
|superphylum=
|phylum=Chordata
|subphylum=
|infraphylum=
|microphylum=
|superdivision=
|division=
|subdivision=
|superclass=
|class=Mammalia
|subclass=
|infraclass=
|superorder=
|order=Carnivora
|suborder=
|infraorder=
|superfamily=
|family=Felidae
|subfamily=
|supertribe=
|tribe=
|subtribe=
|genera=
|genus=Panthera
|subgenus=
|species=P. tigris
|binomialname=
|sub=
|alt=
}}
The '''Tiger''' is a large, striped [[feline]], a member of the Panthera [[Genus]], and largest of the Big Cats found in the wild. Formerly found across much of [[Asia]], much of its habitat is restricted in its range. Several species of tiger are endangered including the Siberian and South China tigers. The Javan, Balinese and Caspian varieties of tiger are now [[extinction|extinct]]. The biggest habitat is [[Malaysia]], where plenty of wild tigers still roam.

== Habits ==

Tigers are solitary [[predator]]s, capable of easily killing prey as large as a [[buffalo]] or a [[yak]], or as small as a [[rabbit]] or [[lemur]]. They can sometimes kill domestic livestock, including [[cattle]]. These predatory acts are a common justification for the hunting of tigers to near extinction.

Tigers are almost unique among the great cats in that they are fond of swimming. Though not as arboreal as the [[leopard]], they can climb trees. They can jump almost their entire body length and some can run as fast as 40 miles per hour.

== Man-eating tigers ==

There have been numerous historical cases of man-eating tigers; sometimes claiming hundreds of victims. However, the animals involved were often found to have been injured, frequently by [[porcupine]]s or [[gun]]shot wounds, and healthy tigers do not generally eat people.

== Famous tigers in literature and popular culture ==

*Tigger - in [[A.A. Milne]]'s [[Winnie the Pooh]].

*Sher Khan - in [[Kipling]]'s ''The Jungle Book''.

*Hobbes - in the comic [[Calvin and Hobbes]].

*Tony the Tiger - a corporate icon associated with [[breakfast cereal]].

*The Esso Tiger - in [[Canada]] the official symbol for [[Imperial Oil]].

*The [[Detroit Tigers]] of Major League Baseball.

*The year of the tiger is one of the twelve years of [[Chinese]] [[astrology]].

*The longest running version of Mac OS X, version 10.4, was known as 'Tiger'.

*The [[Cincinnati Bengals]] of the [[National Football League]].

*Tassie Tigers cricket team.

*[[Tiger Woods]], the greatest golfer of his generation.

*Canada's 'Giant Tiger' [[discount store]].

*Tiger Jackson, a character from the [[video game]] Tekken 3.

*Tiger-Tiger [[ice cream]], a delicious blend of licorice and orange ice cream.

*Tiger Beer, the most successful brand of [[beer]] in South Asia.

* And the most literary of all - [[William Blake]]'s:

:''Tyger! Tyger! burning bright''
:''In the forests of the night,''
:''What immortal hand or eye''
:''Can frame thy fearful symmetry?''

{{Nb_zl_felines}}
[[Category:Animals]]
[[Category:Dangerous Animals]]
[[Category:Asia]]

Gulf of Mexico oil spill

2010-05-16T01:27:18Z

Ameda: Undo revision 778642 by RaymondP (Talk) I think the previous editor was a bit zealous with the delete button.

[[File:043010ap oil slick 800.JPG|right|300px|thumb|Oil slick near the Mississippi River delta on 29 April 2010 (NASA)]]
On 31 March 2010 [[President Barack Obama]] announced the resumption of domestic offshore oil drilling at Andrews Air Force Base outside [[Washington, D.C.]]<ref>[http://www.youtube.com/user/AssociatedPress#p/u/6/mA7RAfHN-wo Obama Lifts Ban on Offshore Drilling,] ''[[Associated Press]],'' 31 March 2010. Retrieved from [[Youtube]] 9 May 2010.</ref> The President's actions have been labeled, "a decision to endanger our coastal [[ecosystem]]s with the risk of catastrophic oil spills."<ref>[http://members.greenpeace.org/blog/greenpeaceusa_blog/2010/04/30/president_obama_committed_to_endangering President Obama must reinstate moratorium on offshore drilling,] [[Greenpeace]] USA blogs, 30 Apr 2010.</ref> Defending the decision, the President remarked "oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced."<ref>White House Press Release, [http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-a-discussion-jobs-and-economy-charlotte-north-carolina Remarks by the President in a Discussion on Jobs and the Economy in Charlotte, North Carolina,] Office of the Press Secretary, April 02, 2010. Retrieved from whitehouse.gov 3 May 2010.</ref><ref>Video: [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/04/29/flashback_obama_says_oil_rigs_today_dont_generally_cause_spills.html Obama Says "Oil Rigs Today Don't Generally Cause Spills"], 2 April 2010. Retrieved from RealClearPolitics.com 12 May 2010.</ref>

According to the ''New York Times'' Obama "said several times during his [[Barack Hussein Obama 2008 Presidential campaign|presidential campaign]] that he supported expanded offshore drilling. He noted in his [[State of the Union]] address<ref>[http://www.c-span.org/Executive/State-of-the-Union.aspx Barack Obama State of the Union Address 2010]. Retrieved from [[C-SPAN]].org 15 May 2010.</ref> in January [2010] that weaning the country from imported oil would require “tough decisions about opening new offshore areas for oil and gas development.”<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/science/earth/31energy.html Obama to Open Offshore Areas to Oil Drilling for First Time,] John M. Broder, ''[[New York Times]]'', March 30, 2010.</ref><ref>[http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/03/obama_clears_way_for_oil_drill.html Obama clears way for oil drilling off U.S. coasts], Associated Press, March 31, 2010, Retrieved from nola.com 8 May 2010.</ref>

==The Obama plan ==
[[File:OCS Eastern Gulf of Mexico Strategy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Map of expanded areas of offshore oil drilling authorized by President Obama on 31 March 2010.<ref>http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2010/04/01/obama-offshore-oil-drilling-details.htm</ref> ''Source: United States Department of Interior.'']]
Obama called for expanded development and production throughout the [[Gulf of Mexico]]. The [[Department of Interior]]'s Minerals Management Service (MMS) estimates that the Gulf of Mexico contains 36-41.5 billion barrels of oil and 161-207 trillion cubic feet of natural gas resources. According a DOI press release, Obama's plan would "expand oil and gas development and exploration" while "protecting fisheries, [[tourism]], and places off U.S. coasts that are not appropriate for development."<ref>[http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/2010_03_31_release.cfm Department of Interior Press Release,] 31 March 2010.</ref>

== Deepwater Horizons ==
On [[Earth Day]] 2010, a British Petroleum-leased oil drilling rig sank to the bottom of the [[Gulf of Mexico]] two days after it exploded, creating what has been described as the "worst environmental disaster in [[American History Lectures|US history]]."<ref>[http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m4d29-Worst-environmental-disaster-in-US-history-Oil-slick-in-Gulf-of-Mexico-is-set-on-fire Worst environmental disaster in US history,] Maryann Tobin, ''Examiner'', April 29, 2010.</ref> [[Secretary of the Interior]] [[Ken Salazar]] told [[CNN]] "It potentially is catastrophic," and "I think we have to prepare for the worst."<ref>[http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/gulf-oil-spill:-impossible-to-measure-impact-of-%22unprecedented-environmental-disaster%22-477603.html?tickers=BP,HAL,CAM,RIG,XLE,OIL,USO Gulf Oil Spill: Impossible to Measure Impact of "Unprecedented Environmental Disaster",] Aaron Task, May 03, 2010. Retrieved from Yahoo Finance 12 May 2010.</ref><ref>http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/02/salazar-oil-spill-massive-and-a-potential-catastrophe/</ref>

Congressional investigators think they have identified the rigs blowout preventer as the cause of the explosion. <ref>[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703339304575240323493707434.html Congress Homes In on Rig's Blowout Preventer,] Ben Casselman and Jennifer Levitz, ''Wall Street Journal Online,'' 13 May 2010.</ref> The blowout preventer was leaking hydraulic fluid, had a dead battery,<ref>Ibid.</ref> and was inspected by the Obama Minerals Management Service (MMS) only two weeks before to the explosion<ref>White House Press Office, [http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/press-briefing-bp-oil-spill-gulf-coast Press Briefing on the BP Oil Spill in the Gulf Coast,] 29 April 2010. Retrieved from whitehouse.gov 12 May 2010.</ref> which killed 11 people. Blowout preventers are meant to shut off the well, and the last line of defense is a set of shear rams which cut the pipe and seal off the well.<ref>Congress Homes In on Rig's Blowout Preventer, Ben Casselman and Jennifer Levitz, ''WSJ Online,'' 13 May 2010.</ref> The MMS, the [[Obama administration]] agency that regulates offshore drilling along with the Coast Guard, is supposed to require proof that shear rams are powerful enough to shut the well. Michael Saucier, MMS's regional supervisor testified before Congress that the MMS didn't check to see if BP was compliant with the [[federal]] regulatory requirements.<ref>Ibid.</ref>

Nobel Laureate in Economics, Dr. [[Paul Krugman]],<ref>[http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economics/laureates/2008/ Economics 2008.] Retrieved from Nobel.org 10 May 2010.</ref> who has been highly critical of Obama [[Obama administration corporate bailouts|economic policy]]<ref>[http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2009/20090331151429.aspx Krugman Garners Newsweek Cover for Left-Wing Criticism of [[Obamunism|Obamanomics,]] ] Julia A. Seymour, ''Business & Media Institute'', 3/31/09.</ref> wrote a column entitled "The oil spill is Obama's fault" in his regular ''New York Times'' opinion column, ''Conscience of a Liberal.'' <ref>[http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/the-oil-spill-is-obamas-fault/?src=twt&twt=NytimesKrugman The Oil Spill Is Obama’s Fault,] Paul Krugman, ''New York Times '' Op-Ed, April 30, 2010,</ref>

===Slow response ===

On 23 April 2010 [[Department of Homeland Security]] officials with the [[U.S. Coast Guard]] reported the was no leak from the sunken oil rig.<ref>[http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-04-23-deepwater-horizon_N.htm Coast Guard: No oil leaking from sunken rig,] Rick Jervis, ''[[USA TODAY]]'', 23 April 2010.</ref> Administration officially estimated leakage from the sunken well at 1000 barrels per day after studying information from remotely operated vehicles.<ref>[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/oil-rig-deepwater-horizon_0_n_550849.html Oil Rig, Deepwater Horizon, Leaking Into Gulf Of Mexico,] Cain Burdeau, 4 April 2010. Retrieved from the ''[[Huffington Post]],'' 15 May 2010.</ref> Later administration estimates were raised to 5000 barrels per day,<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/us/29spill.html Size of Spill in Gulf of Mexico Is Larger Than Thought,] Campbell Robertson and Leslie Kaufman, ''New York Times,'' 28 April 2010. Retrieved 15 May 2010.</ref> while [[National Public Radio]] has reported the [[Obama administration]]'s estimates may be understated by a factor of ten.<ref>[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126809525 Gulf Spill May Far Exceed Official Estimates,] Richard Harris, ''National Public Radio,'' 14 May 2010.</ref>

Federal officials did not begin burning the leaking oil off the surface of the water until one full week after the rig collapsed.<ref>http://blog.al.com/live/2010/04/burning_should_have_started_a.html</ref> Louisiana Governor [[Bobby Jindal]] criticized [[President Obama]] for his slow response<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzEntQPr9OA</ref> ''The New York Times'' castigated the [[White House]] for delays and not moving quick enough, calling the evidence "damning" and declaring the Gulf oil spill a "huge disaster whose consequences might have been minimized with swifter action" from the [[Obama administration]].<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/opinion/01sat1.html</ref>

== British Petroleum ==
[[File:Bp-obama-logo.jpg|right|200px|thumb| A symbol that the president is responsible, Obama takes ownership of this crisis. His actions alone will be judged and cannot pass blame onto others as he has previously.]]
During the first 100 days of the [[Obama administration]], the Minerals Management Service (MMS) of the [[Department of the Interior]] granted a “categorical exclusion” from a detailed environmental impact statement required under [[law]]<ref>[http://ceq.hss.doe.gov/nepa/regs/nepa/nepaeqia.htm The National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, as amended.]</ref> to British Petroleum's Deepwater Horizon drilling operation, according to the ''[[Washington Post]].''<ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/04/AR2010050404118.html U.S. exempted BP's Gulf of Mexico drilling from environmental impact study,] Juliet Eilperin, ''Washington Post,'' 5 May 2010.</ref> BP's exploration plan received in the Administration's MMS field office on 23 March 2009 states "no mitigation measures other than those required by regulation and BP policy will be employed to avoid, diminish or eliminate potential impacts on environmental resources." It declared any spill would have only "sub-lethal" effects on fish and marine [[mammal]]s but it was "unlikely that an accidental oil spill would occur from the proposed activities."<ref>http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/initial_exploration_plan050410.pdf</ref>

As Senator, and while running for president, [[Barack Obama]] received a total of $77,051 from British Petroleum<ref>http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/BP?view=detail&siteid=nwhwk</ref> and has taken more money from BP's [[Political Action Committee]] and individuals connected with BP over the past 20 years than any other candidate, according to [[FEC]] disclosure records.<ref>[http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0505/obama-biggest-recipient-bp-political-action-money-20-years Obama is biggest recipient of BP’s political action cash in the last 20 years,] John Byrne, 5 May 2010. Retrieved from rawstory.com 9 May 2010.</ref> Likewise, the independent watchdog Center for Responsive Politics noted, "the “top recipient of BP-related donations during the 2008 cycle was President Barack Obama himself.”<ref>Jake Tapper, Political Punch, [[ABC News]], 5 May 2010. [http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/05/white-house-idea-that-bp-given-special-exemption-because-of-campaign-cash-to-obama-silly-and-ridiculous.html?cid=6a00d8341c4df253ef0134807669a3970c]</ref><ref>http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/04/on-thursday-oil-giant-bp.html</ref>

==Environmental disaster ==

=== Attempted cleanup ===
''Wired Science'' reports the [[Obama administration]] disaster-relief agencies and BP are using a toxic chemical to disperse oil in the Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster. Use of dispersants are said to be a public relations strategy.<ref>[http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/gulf-dispersants/ Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative,] Brandon Keim, 5 May 2010. Retrieved from ''Wired Science'' 15 May 2010.</ref> U.S.[[Department of Homeland Security]] Secretary [[Janet Napolitano]] reported the dispersants were dropped form [[C-130]] cargo aircraft.<ref>[http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-05-02/news/os-oil-disaster-chemical-cleanup-20100502_1_dispersant-spill-crude Oil-spill disaster: Chemicals used in cleanup add to toxic mix,] Kevin Spear, ''Orlando Sentinel,'' 2 May 2010.</ref> Jackie Savitz of the ocean-conservation group Oceana stated the use of dispersants is only slightly less horrendous than the Gulf oil spill itself. "You're basically pouring chemicals into the ocean, which is never a good thing."<ref>Ibid.</ref> According to a 2009 [[Environmental Protection Agency]] report dispersants have not been used in the United State "because of possible long-term environmental effects, difficulties with timely and effective application, disagreement among [[scientist]]s and research data about their environmental effects, effectiveness, and [[toxic]]ity concerns" and the effects "are still unknown."<ref>Ibid.</ref> Dennis Takahashi-Kelso, executive vice president of the [[environmental]] group Ocean Conservancy, said dispersants risk damaging [[ecosystem]]s and hurting wildlife.<ref>Ibid.</ref>

The dispersant 2-BE is known to cause heath dangers to clean up workers and wildlife alike.<ref>[http://www.bellona.org/articles/articles_2010/chem_dispersants_work_at_cost Chemical dispersants seem to be keeping oil from Gulf shore, but results may range from simply cosmetic to very toxic.] Retrieved from Belona.org 15 May 2010.</ref> 2-BE has been documented to cause the breakdown of [[red blood cell]]s, leading to blood in urine and feces, and can damage the kidneys, liver, spleen and [[bone marrow]] of humans – effects not included on the information sheet for workers.<ref>Ibid.</ref> The dispersant Corexit 9500 is associated with headaches, vomiting and reproductive problems as sides effects to clean-up workers.<ref>Ibid.</ref> Lawrence Duffy of the University of Alaska claims dispersants "are more a public relations measure than a preventive one. It has an effect on our psychology because we don't see the oil slick,"<ref>Ibid.</ref> though oil particles continue to do damage.<ref>Oil-spill disaster: Chemicals used in cleanup add to toxic mix, Kevin Spear, ''Orlando Sentinel,'' 2 May 2010.</ref>

Most scientists agree that Corexit 9500 will have a much larger biological effect when it reaches coastal areas teeming with wildlife.<ref>Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative,] Brandon Keim, ''Wired Science,'' 5 May 2010.</ref> Many species are being threatened at a crucial time in their life cycle.<ref>[http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2818588720100428 FACTBOX-Possible environmental impact of Gulf oil spill,] ''[[Reuters]]'', 28 April 2010.</ref>

=== Silverfish ===

In testing done by the U.S. [[Environmental Protection Agency]] the was extremely lethal to silverfish, a benchmark [[organism]] in [[toxic]]ity testing.<ref>Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative, Brandon Keim, 5 May 2010. Retrieved from ''Wired Science'' 15 May 2010.</ref>

=== Gulf menhaden ===

Gulf menhaden are a [[specie]]s harvested mostly for fish meal and fish oil. Menhaden could be badly affected
by the spill.

=== Coral, oyster and shrimp ===

Corals, oyster and shrimp likewise are critically affected. Richard Charter, a foremost expert on marine biology and oil spills who is a senior policy advisor for Marine Programmes for Defenders of Wildlife and is chairman of the Gulf of the Farallones National Marine Sanctuary Advisory Council has said, “There is a [[chemical]] [[toxic]]ity to the dispersant compound that in many ways is worse than oil,” which "in so doing you may be more seriously damaging the ecosystem offshore.”<ref>Chemical dispersants seem to be keeping oil from Gulf shore, but results may range from simply cosmetic to very toxic. Retreived from Belona.org 15 May 2010.</ref> Shrimp were found to be extremely vulnerable to the lethal effects of the chemical dispersant Corexit 9500 used by [[Obama administration]] disaster relief agencies and BP in testing done by the [[Environmental Protection Agency]] (EPA).<ref>Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative, Brandon Keim, 5 May 2010. Retrieved from ''Wired Science'' 15 May 2010.</ref>
[[File:Slide 6569 89213 small.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Oil-covered bird struggling to stay alive]]
=== Brown pelican ===

The [[Louisiana]] state bird, the brown pelican, was removed from the U.S. Endangered Species Act in 2009 and breeding season has just commenced.

=== Other bird species ===

Other species endangered by the oil spill are American oystercatcher and Wilson's plover.

=== Sea turtles ===

As several species of sea turtles move through the Gulf during their spring nesting season, they need to surface to breathe.

==Economic impacts==

The economic impact of the [[Gulf of Mexico]] oil drilling disaster could be large and devastating to several key industries, including fishing, tourism, and transportation.<ref>[http://www.ihsglobalinsight.com/Perspective/PerspectiveDetail18638.htm Preliminary Economic Assessment of the Gulf Coast Oil Spill,] Nariman Behravesh, 4 May 2010. Retrieved from ihsglobalinsights.com 8 May 2020.</ref>

===Employment in fishing===

Fishing<ref>http://www.marketwatch.com/video/asset/fishing-industry-hammered-by-gulf-oil-spill/41612D0E-B338-464D-A15E-5885B1D227D6</ref> in the Gulf of Mexico employed about 27,000 workers in [[Louisiana]] alone and second to [[Alaska]]'s fishing industry. Dockside sales are approximately $660 million. Loses to the Louisiana fishing industry could be as high as $2.5 billion.<ref>http://www.marketwatch.com/story/insurers-brace-for-liability-hit-from-oil-spill-2010-05-05</ref>

===Tourism===

Tourism along the Gulf coast likewise could be devastated as the spill comes ashore. [[Florida]] tourism industry could lose $3 billion according to analysts at Bernstein Research.<ref>http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7da532730030019&sectionId=65</ref>

===Transportation===

The disruption of shipping traffic in and out of the Port of [[New Orleans]] will impact barge, container, and tanker traffic in the Mississippi Delta and along the [[Mississippi River]]. Prices of all types of commodities would affected,

=== Insurance industry ===

British Petroleum (BP), the operator on the oil drilling lease with a 65% stake, insured itself, rather than buying coverage from insurance companies. Industry analysts estimate total costs related to the oil spill clleanup and damages could exceed $14 billion. <ref>[http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE6410IJ20100502 U.S. oil spill could bill could exceed $14 billion,] Tom Bergin, ''Reuters,'' 2 May 2010.</ref>

==Other Liberal Reaction==
Forthcoming

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Obama Administration]]
[[Category:Obama Presidency]]
[[Category:Disasters]]

Talk:Gulf of Mexico oil spill

2010-05-16T01:25:06Z

Ameda: /* Marc Antony said that Cesar was ambitious */

It is high time Obama care about the environment like the Republicans do and end unsafe offshore drilling once and for all. [[User:JohnLeDeux|JohnLeDeux]] 21:26, 10 May 2010 (EDT)

== Marc Antony said that Cesar was ambitious ==

This statement is factual correct. But it makes the knowledgeable laugh, and it misleads those who don't have any further knowledge of ''Julius Cesar''.

Reading such a statement in an encyclopedia where you expect truthful entries is confusing at best, deceitful at worst. If I read this sentence in a wiki, I would think that someone made a bad joke and revert it.

Why? Because, though Marc Antony uttered these words (at least in [[Shakespeare]]'s work), he was just quoting Brute. It wasn't his own opinion. How do we know this? By reading the rest of the great speech. So, he quoted words which stated the opposite of what he thought.

Now, I read: ''Nobel Laurette [sic] in Economics, Dr. Paul Krugman, who has been highly critical of Obama economic policy wrote in his regular New York Times opinion column, Conscience of a Liberal, "The oil spill is Obama's fault."''

The reader of this line is lead to believe that Paul Krugman thinks that the oil spill is Obama's fault. But is this the case? Obviously not, as Krugman goes on: ''No, I haven’t lost my mind — that’s not what I believe. But you know that’s what the talk-show hosts will be saying soon, if they haven’t already started. The only question is what the story will be.''

So, Krugman is ''quoting'' some - though only imagined - talk-show hosts. And omitting this in the article is au par with stating ''Marc Antony said that Cesar was ambitious'' - misleading at best, deceitful at worst, ridiculous to those who read Krugman's column.

[[User:FrankC|FrankC aka ComedyFan]] 10:35, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
:So Krugman was saying "I told you so" for not listening to him and distancing himself further from Obama apologists? [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 13:11, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

::Paul Krugman states the the claim "The oil spill is Obama's fault" is not his opinion, so, he thinks that such a claim is wrong. It's beyond me how this can be accidently misinterpreted.
::[[User:FrankC|FrankC aka ComedyFan]] 07:52, 12 May 2010 (EDT)
:::So in Krugman's regular Opinion Column published on the Opinion page where Krugman says the oil spill is Obama's fault is not his opinion. ooookayyyyy..... [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 12:02, 15 May 2010 (EDT)
::::I think what FrankC is saying is trying to say is that, despite the title, the article is not Krugman accusing Obama.[[User:DrRaymondL|DrRaymondL]] 14:50, 15 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::Oh, you mean the ''New York Times'' is not a Reliable Source? [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]]
::::::I see that RobSmith has readded the Krugman blurb despite being shown that Krugman does not believe that the Oil Spill is Obama's fault. Prior revisions were reworded to show the actual context of the article but RobSmith reverted that also. Can we get a final ruling from perhaps Mr. Schlafly on this because this is just plain deceitful. I don't even see why Krugman's opinion is even relevant considering the plethora of evidence in the article that shows Obama's poor response.[[User:Ameda|ameda]] 19:42, 15 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::This has been an ongoing battle between Obama & Krugman before Obama was even elected. See [http://mydd.com/2007/12/7/obama-attacking-paul-krugmans-credibility Obama attacking Krugman's credibility] for example with a link to the source at barackobama.com, "[http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2007/12/07/fact_check_krugman_didnt_alway.php trashing the credibility of Paul Krugman]." There's stuff on the White House webserver as well. It's all typical liberal doublespeak; who knows what any of it means replete with the blame-rush-limbaugh claptrap. Facts are, Krugman wrote in the NYT it's Obama's fault. Even that measures up to WP's reliable source & verifiability standards. We know that, they're employing those same standards in its Conservapedia entry at this very moment. [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 20:20, 15 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::: No one is saying you're wrong about Krugman arguing with Obama, just that in that article he does not blame Obama for the spill. On the contrary, he believes the opposite. To make a metaphor, using the article in this way would be the equivalent of saying a patriot quoting a terrorist who said "America is evil" hates America also. [[User:RaymondP|RaymondP]] 20:29, 15 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::According to the website Environmental Economics, [http://www.env-econ.net/2010/05/krugman-was-correct.html Krugman was correct.] [[User:RobSmith|Rob Smith]] 20:46, 15 May 2010 (EDT)
::::::::::In that article I believe they are saying that Krugman's points which he said he disagreed with are correct. Please read Krugman's actual article: '''he is not saying it is Obama's fault, so bringing up his article in this is deceitful!'''[[User:RaymondP|RaymondP]] 21:14, 15 May 2010 (EDT)
:::::::::::The points have been made, I tried my hand at correcting it but RobSmith seems to want it and since he is an admin. I suggest we defer to him for now and either let it stand or get the opinions of other admins. This page is quickly going to be nothing but talk, back and forth, back and forth, repeating the same stuff with nothing new or productive. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 21:25, 15 May 2010 (EDT)

Job 1-9 (Translated)

2010-05-16T00:19:50Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 4 */

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
|There was a man named Job who lived in Uz. He was perfect, righteous, and feared God; truly a man who protected himself from evil.
|
|-
|2
|And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
|He had 7 sons and 3 daughters.
|
|-
|3
|His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
|He was the wealthiest man of the east. His estate included 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 oxen, and 500 female donkeys.
|
|-
|4
|And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
|And his sons ate and drank in their houses and called for their 3 sisters to join them.
|
|-
|5
|And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
|But when the feasting was over, Job called for them and blessed them. He awoke early and offered burnt offerings for each of his sons and daughters and said, "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." And he continued this for awhile.
|
|-
|6
|Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
|One day though, the angels of God assembled before the Lord, as did Satan.
|
|-
|7
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "Where did you come from?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|8
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil?"
|
|-
|9
|Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
|Then Satan replied, "Does Job fear you for nothing?"
|
|-
|10
|"Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
|"Haven't you put up barriers around him, his house, and all that he has to protect him? You have blessed his endeavors and you have increased his wealth."
|
|-
|11
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"If you take away that protection and the blessings of his estate he will curse you to your face"
|
|-
|12
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
|And the Lord said to Satan, "Listen, all of his wealth will be put under your control but you are not to hurt the man himself." Then Satan departed God's presence.
|
|-
|13
|And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|Then one day when Job's sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:
|
|-
|14
|And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
|There arrived a messenger to Job who said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding next to them."
|
|-
|15
|And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And the Sabeans pounced on them and stole them. They also murdered the servants with their swords and I was the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|16
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the messenger was still speaking another came and said, "Fire from God is falling from the sky and has killed the sheep and the servants and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|17
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the second messenger was still talking there came yet another who said, "The Chaldeans, in 3 groups, pounced on the camels and stole them. They also killed the servants with their swords and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|18
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|While the third messenger was still talking there came yet another and he said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:"
|
|-
|19
|And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And a powerful wind came from nowhere and destroyed the four corners of the house and caused it to collapse. It killed your sons and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|20
|Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,
|Job stood up, ripping his robe and shaving his head he fell on the ground and started worshiping God.
|
|-
|21
|And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
|Job said, "I was born naked from my mother's womb and naked I shall return. The Lord gives and he takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."
|
|-
|22
|In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
|Even in all of this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
|Another day came when the angels of God, along with Satan came before God.
|
|-
|2
|And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "From where did you come?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|3
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil? Have you seen that he has remained righteous even though you had convinced me to come against him and ruin him with no cause?"
|
|-
|4
|And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
|Satan answered, "To destroy possessions is one thing, but a man will give everything to save his life."
|
|-
|5
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"Take your hand away now and let ruin come to his body and he will curse you to your face."
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
|The Lord replied, "Listen, he is in your hands now but do not kill him."
|
|-
|7
|So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
|So Satan departed from God and gave Job sore boils from the bottoms of his feet to the top of his head.
|
|-
|8
|And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
|Job took a shard of pottery and sat down among the ashes of his estate and started scraping the boils.
|
|-
|9
|Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
|And his wife came and asked him, "Do you still remain righteous? Why don't you curse God and die?"
|
|-
|10
|But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
|But Job replied, "You speak like a crazy woman speaks. Do we only receive good and not bad at the hands of God?" Even through all of this Job did not sin.
|
|-
|11
|Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.
|When Job's 3 friends heard of all this they came to him from their own houses. Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite, each had agreed to come together to mourn with Job and comfort him.
|
|-
|12
|And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|When they saw him and how much he had changed they raised their voices and wept and tore their garments and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|
|-
|13
|So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great.
|They then sat with Job on the ground for 7 days and nights and no one spoke to him because they saw that his grief was too much.
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
|After awhile Job cursed the day.
|
|-
|2
|And Job spake, and said,
|And he said,
|
|-
|3
|Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
|"I wish I was never born nor conceived."
|
|-
|4
|Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
|"Let that day be dismal, do not let God exalt it, do not let the light shine on it."
|
|-
|5
|Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
|"Let darkness and death stain it and a cloud dwell upon it, let no light shine in the day and let it be terrified because of it."
|
|-
|6
|As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
|"As for that night let darkness hold it and let it not be part of the year nor of any month."
|
|-
|7
|Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
|"Let that night stand alone and let nothing joyful be said about it."
|
|-
|8
|Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.
|"Let them that curse days curse this one; those who are ready to mourn."
|
|-
|9
|Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
|"Let the stars dim inside it, let it look for light but find none. Do not let it see the dawn."
|
|-
|10
|Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
|"For it did not close my mother's womb nor did it hide sorrow from me."
|
|-
|11
|Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
|"Why didn't I just die in the womb? Why did I not become a ghost when I was born?"
|
|-
|12
|Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
|"Why did the knees allow me to enter and why did the breasts nourish me?"
|
|-
|13
|For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
|"For now I would be at rest, at peace. Sleeping contently"
|
|-
|14
|With kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
|"With the kings of the Earth which built things that are now ruins."
|
|-
|15
|Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
|"Or with princes with gold that filled their houses with silver"
|
|-
|16
|Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
|"Why was I not stillborn and had never seen the light of day?"
|
|-
|17
|There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
|"There the wicked can cause no trouble and the righteous can be at rest."
|
|-
|18
|There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
|"There the prisoners rest together and do not hear the voice of their oppressor."
|
|-
|19
|The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.
|"Both small and great are there and the servant is free from the master."
|
|-
|20
|Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;
|"Why is light given to the miserable and life to the bitter soul?"
|
|-
|21
|Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;
|"Both of whom want death but for whom it never comes; those that want it more than riches"
|
|-
|22
|Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
|"Those that rejoice abundantly and who are glad when they finally die."
|
|-
|23
|Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
|"Why is light given to a man who does not know his path, who God has boxed in?"
|
|-
|24
|For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.
|"For my despair comes before food and my cries of pain are poured out like water."
|
|-
|25
|For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
|"That which I have greatly feared has come to me."
|
|-
|26
|I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
|"I have no safety, rest, or peace, only hardship."
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite responded and said,
|
|-
|2
|If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
|"If we talk with you, will you get upset? Who can stop oneself from talking?"
|
|-
|3
|Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
|"You have taught many and have improved the weak."
|
|-
|4
|Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
|"You're words have uplifted those that were failing and have improved the feeble."
|
|-
|5
|But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
|"But now trouble has happened to you and you faltered. It touched you and you were troubled."
|
|-
|6
|Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
|"Is this not your fear, your confidence, your hope, and the righteousness of your ways?"
|
|-
|7
|Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
|"Think, who ever died who was innocent? Where were the righteous ever cut down?"
|
|-
|8
|Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
|"I have seen those that practice deceit and cause evil have the same done to them?"
|
|-
|9
|By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
|"God's power kills them and they are consumed by the very breath of his nostrils."
|
|-
|10
|The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
|"The roar of the lion and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teetch of the young lions, all are broken."
|
|-
|11
|The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.
|"The old lion dies due to lack of prey and the stout lion's children are scattered far away."
|
|-
|12
|Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
|"A secret was given to me and I heard a bit of it."
|
|-
|13
|In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
|"In visions during the night, when men are deep asleep."
|
|-
|14
|Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
|"Fear griped me and I trembled so much my bones shook."
|
|-
|15
|Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
|"Then I saw a spirit that caused my hair to stand on end."
|
|-
|16
|It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
|"It stood still but I could not see it very well: there was an image, then silence, then a voice that said,"
|
|-
|17
|Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
|"Will humans be more just than God? Shall men be more pure than their maker?"
|
|-
|18
|Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
|"If God does not trust his servants and his angels are charged with folly:"
|
|-
|19
|How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
|"How much more righteous can they be who live in houses of clay, who come from the dust, and who are crushed as easily as a moth?"
|
|-
|20
|They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
|"They are killed all throughout the day and they pay no mind to it."
|
|-
|21
|Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.
|"Doesn't their righteousness go away? They die without wisdom."
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
|
|
|-
|2
|For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
|
|
|-
|3
|I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation.
|
|
|-
|4
|His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them.
|
|
|-
|5
|Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the robber swalloweth up their substance.
|
|
|-
|6
|Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
|
|
|-
|7
|Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
|
|
|-
|8
|I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
|
|
|-
|9
|Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
|
|
|-
|10
|Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
|
|
|-
|11
|To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
|
|
|-
|12
|He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
|
|
|-
|13
|He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
|
|
|-
|14
|They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
|
|
|-
|15
|But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.
|
|
|-
|16
|So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
|
|
|-
|17
|Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
|
|
|-
|18
|For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
|
|
|-
|19
|He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
|
|
|-
|20
|In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.
|
|
|-
|21
|Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
|
|
|-
|22
|At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
|
|
|-
|23
|For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
|
|
|-
|24
|And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth.
|
|
|-
|26
|Thou shalt come to thy grave in a full age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in his season.
|
|
|-
|27
|Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|But Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
|
|
|-
|3
|For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
|
|
|-
|4
|For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
|
|
|-
|5
|Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
|
|
|-
|6
|Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
|
|
|-
|7
|The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
|
|
|-
|8
|Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
|
|
|-
|9
|Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
|
|
|-
|10
|Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
|
|
|-
|11
|What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
|
|
|-
|12
|Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
|
|
|-
|13
|Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
|
|
|-
|14
|To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
|
|
|-
|15
|My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
|
|
|-
|16
|Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
|
|
|-
|17
|What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
|
|
|-
|18
|The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
|
|
|-
|19
|The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
|
|
|-
|20
|They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
|
|
|-
|21
|For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
|
|
|-
|22
|Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
|
|
|-
|23
|Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
|
|
|-
|24
|Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
|
|
|-
|25
|How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
|
|
|-
|26
|Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
|
|
|-
|27
|Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
|
|
|-
|28
|Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
|
|
|-
|29
|Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
|
|
|-
|30
|Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
|
|
|-
|2
|As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
|
|
|-
|3
|So am I made to possess months of vanity, and wearisome nights are appointed to me.
|
|
|-
|4
|When I lie down, I say, When shall I arise, and the night be gone? and I am full of tossings to and fro unto the dawning of the day.
|
|
|-
|5
|My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.
|
|
|-
|6
|My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.
|
|
|-
|7
|O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
|
|
|-
|8
|The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
|
|
|-
|9
|As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
|
|
|-
|10
|He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
|
|
|-
|11
|Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
|
|
|-
|12
|Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
|
|
|-
|13
|When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
|
|
|-
|14
|Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
|
|
|-
|15
|So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
|
|
|-
|16
|I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
|
|
|-
|17
|What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
|
|
|-
|18
|And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
|
|
|-
|19
|How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
|
|
|-
|20
|I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
|
|
|-
|21
|And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?
|
|
|-
|3
|Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
|
|
|-
|4
|If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;
|
|
|-
|5
|If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
|
|
|-
|6
|If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
|
|
|-
|7
|Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.
|
|
|-
|8
|For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
|
|
|-
|9
|(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
|
|
|-
|10
|Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
|
|
|-
|11
|Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?
|
|
|-
|12
|Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb.
|
|
|-
|13
|So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
|
|
|-
|14
|Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web.
|
|
|-
|15
|He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure.
|
|
|-
|16
|He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden.
|
|
|-
|17
|His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones.
|
|
|-
|18
|If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee.
|
|
|-
|19
|Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow.
|
|
|-
|20
|Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
|
|
|-
|21
|Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
|
|
|-
|22
|They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
|
|
|-
|3
|If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
|
|
|-
|4
|He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
|
|
|-
|5
|Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
|
|
|-
|6
|Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
|
|
|-
|7
|Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
|
|
|-
|8
|Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
|
|
|-
|9
|Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
|
|
|-
|10
|Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
|
|
|-
|11
|Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
|
|
|-
|13
|If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
|
|
|-
|14
|How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
|
|
|-
|15
|Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
|
|
|-
|16
|If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
|
|
|-
|17
|For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
|
|
|-
|18
|He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
|
|
|-
|19
|If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
|
|
|-
|20
|If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
|
|
|-
|21
|Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
|
|
|-
|22
|This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
|
|
|-
|23
|If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
|
|
|-
|24
|The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
|
|
|-
|25
|Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
|
|
|-
|26
|They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
|
|
|-
|27
|If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
|
|
|-
|28
|I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
|
|
|-
|29
|If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
|
|
|-
|30
|If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
|
|
|-
|31
|Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
|
|
|-
|33
|Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
|
|
|-
|34
|Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
|
|
|-
|35
|Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Job 1-9 (Translated)

2010-05-16T00:13:02Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 4 */

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
|There was a man named Job who lived in Uz. He was perfect, righteous, and feared God; truly a man who protected himself from evil.
|
|-
|2
|And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
|He had 7 sons and 3 daughters.
|
|-
|3
|His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
|He was the wealthiest man of the east. His estate included 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 oxen, and 500 female donkeys.
|
|-
|4
|And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
|And his sons ate and drank in their houses and called for their 3 sisters to join them.
|
|-
|5
|And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
|But when the feasting was over, Job called for them and blessed them. He awoke early and offered burnt offerings for each of his sons and daughters and said, "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." And he continued this for awhile.
|
|-
|6
|Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
|One day though, the angels of God assembled before the Lord, as did Satan.
|
|-
|7
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "Where did you come from?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|8
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil?"
|
|-
|9
|Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
|Then Satan replied, "Does Job fear you for nothing?"
|
|-
|10
|"Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
|"Haven't you put up barriers around him, his house, and all that he has to protect him? You have blessed his endeavors and you have increased his wealth."
|
|-
|11
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"If you take away that protection and the blessings of his estate he will curse you to your face"
|
|-
|12
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
|And the Lord said to Satan, "Listen, all of his wealth will be put under your control but you are not to hurt the man himself." Then Satan departed God's presence.
|
|-
|13
|And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|Then one day when Job's sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:
|
|-
|14
|And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
|There arrived a messenger to Job who said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding next to them."
|
|-
|15
|And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And the Sabeans pounced on them and stole them. They also murdered the servants with their swords and I was the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|16
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the messenger was still speaking another came and said, "Fire from God is falling from the sky and has killed the sheep and the servants and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|17
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the second messenger was still talking there came yet another who said, "The Chaldeans, in 3 groups, pounced on the camels and stole them. They also killed the servants with their swords and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|18
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|While the third messenger was still talking there came yet another and he said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:"
|
|-
|19
|And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And a powerful wind came from nowhere and destroyed the four corners of the house and caused it to collapse. It killed your sons and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|20
|Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,
|Job stood up, ripping his robe and shaving his head he fell on the ground and started worshiping God.
|
|-
|21
|And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
|Job said, "I was born naked from my mother's womb and naked I shall return. The Lord gives and he takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."
|
|-
|22
|In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
|Even in all of this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
|Another day came when the angels of God, along with Satan came before God.
|
|-
|2
|And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "From where did you come?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|3
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil? Have you seen that he has remained righteous even though you had convinced me to come against him and ruin him with no cause?"
|
|-
|4
|And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
|Satan answered, "To destroy possessions is one thing, but a man will give everything to save his life."
|
|-
|5
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"Take your hand away now and let ruin come to his body and he will curse you to your face."
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
|The Lord replied, "Listen, he is in your hands now but do not kill him."
|
|-
|7
|So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
|So Satan departed from God and gave Job sore boils from the bottoms of his feet to the top of his head.
|
|-
|8
|And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
|Job took a shard of pottery and sat down among the ashes of his estate and started scraping the boils.
|
|-
|9
|Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
|And his wife came and asked him, "Do you still remain righteous? Why don't you curse God and die?"
|
|-
|10
|But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
|But Job replied, "You speak like a crazy woman speaks. Do we only receive good and not bad at the hands of God?" Even through all of this Job did not sin.
|
|-
|11
|Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.
|When Job's 3 friends heard of all this they came to him from their own houses. Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite, each had agreed to come together to mourn with Job and comfort him.
|
|-
|12
|And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|When they saw him and how much he had changed they raised their voices and wept and tore their garments and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|
|-
|13
|So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great.
|They then sat with Job on the ground for 7 days and nights and no one spoke to him because they saw that his grief was too much.
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
|After awhile Job cursed the day.
|
|-
|2
|And Job spake, and said,
|And he said,
|
|-
|3
|Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
|"I wish I was never born nor conceived."
|
|-
|4
|Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
|"Let that day be dismal, do not let God exalt it, do not let the light shine on it."
|
|-
|5
|Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
|"Let darkness and death stain it and a cloud dwell upon it, let no light shine in the day and let it be terrified because of it."
|
|-
|6
|As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
|"As for that night let darkness hold it and let it not be part of the year nor of any month."
|
|-
|7
|Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
|"Let that night stand alone and let nothing joyful be said about it."
|
|-
|8
|Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.
|"Let them that curse days curse this one; those who are ready to mourn."
|
|-
|9
|Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
|"Let the stars dim inside it, let it look for light but find none. Do not let it see the dawn."
|
|-
|10
|Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
|"For it did not close my mother's womb nor did it hide sorrow from me."
|
|-
|11
|Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
|"Why didn't I just die in the womb? Why did I not become a ghost when I was born?"
|
|-
|12
|Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
|"Why did the knees allow me to enter and why did the breasts nourish me?"
|
|-
|13
|For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
|"For now I would be at rest, at peace. Sleeping contently"
|
|-
|14
|With kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
|"With the kings of the Earth which built things that are now ruins."
|
|-
|15
|Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
|"Or with princes with gold that filled their houses with silver"
|
|-
|16
|Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
|"Why was I not stillborn and had never seen the light of day?"
|
|-
|17
|There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
|"There the wicked can cause no trouble and the righteous can be at rest."
|
|-
|18
|There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
|"There the prisoners rest together and do not hear the voice of their oppressor."
|
|-
|19
|The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.
|"Both small and great are there and the servant is free from the master."
|
|-
|20
|Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;
|"Why is light given to the miserable and life to the bitter soul?"
|
|-
|21
|Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;
|"Both of whom want death but for whom it never comes; those that want it more than riches"
|
|-
|22
|Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
|"Those that rejoice abundantly and who are glad when they finally die."
|
|-
|23
|Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
|"Why is light given to a man who does not know his path, who God has boxed in?"
|
|-
|24
|For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.
|"For my despair comes before food and my cries of pain are poured out like water."
|
|-
|25
|For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
|"That which I have greatly feared has come to me."
|
|-
|26
|I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
|"I have no safety, rest, or peace, only hardship."
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite responded and said,
|
|-
|2
|If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
|"If we talk with you, will you get upset? Who can stop oneself from talking?"
|
|-
|3
|Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
|"You have taught many and have improved the weak."
|
|-
|4
|Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
|"You're words have uplifted those that were failing and have improved the feeble."
|
|-
|5
|But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
|"But now trouble has happened to you and you faltered. It touched you and you were troubled."
|
|-
|6
|Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
|"Is this not your fear, your confidence, your hope, and the righteousness of your ways?"
|
|-
|7
|Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
|"Think, who ever died who was innocent? Where were the righteous ever cut down?"
|
|-
|8
|Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
|"I have seen those that practice deceit and cause evil have the same done to them?"
|
|-
|9
|By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
|"God's power kills them and they are consumed by the very breath of his nostrils."
|
|-
|10
|The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
|"The roar of the lion and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teetch of the young lions, all are broken."
|
|-
|11
|The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.
|"The old lion dies due to lack of prey and the stout lion's children are scattered far away."
|
|-
|12
|Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
|"A secret was given to me and I heard a bit of it."
|
|-
|13
|In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
|"In visions during the night, when men are deep asleep."
|
|-
|14
|Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
|"Fear griped me and I trembled so much my bones shook."
|
|-
|15
|Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
|"Then I saw a spirit that caused my hair to stand on end."
|
|-
|16
|It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
|"It stood still but I could not see it very well: there was an image, then silence, then a voice that said,"
|
|-
|17
|Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
|"Will humans be more just than God? Shall men be more pure than their maker?"
|
|-
|18
|Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
|"If God does not trust his servants and his angels are charged with folly:"
|
|-
|19
|How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
|"How much more righteous can they be who live in houses of clay, who come from the dust, and who are crushed before the moth?"
|
|-
|20
|They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
|"They are killed all throughout the day and they pay no mind to it."
|
|-
|21
|Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.
|"Doesn't their righteousness go away? They die without wisdom."
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
|
|
|-
|2
|For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
|
|
|-
|3
|I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation.
|
|
|-
|4
|His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them.
|
|
|-
|5
|Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the robber swalloweth up their substance.
|
|
|-
|6
|Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
|
|
|-
|7
|Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
|
|
|-
|8
|I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
|
|
|-
|9
|Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
|
|
|-
|10
|Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
|
|
|-
|11
|To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
|
|
|-
|12
|He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
|
|
|-
|13
|He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
|
|
|-
|14
|They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
|
|
|-
|15
|But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.
|
|
|-
|16
|So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
|
|
|-
|17
|Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
|
|
|-
|18
|For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
|
|
|-
|19
|He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
|
|
|-
|20
|In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.
|
|
|-
|21
|Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
|
|
|-
|22
|At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
|
|
|-
|23
|For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
|
|
|-
|24
|And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth.
|
|
|-
|26
|Thou shalt come to thy grave in a full age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in his season.
|
|
|-
|27
|Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|But Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
|
|
|-
|3
|For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
|
|
|-
|4
|For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
|
|
|-
|5
|Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
|
|
|-
|6
|Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
|
|
|-
|7
|The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
|
|
|-
|8
|Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
|
|
|-
|9
|Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
|
|
|-
|10
|Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
|
|
|-
|11
|What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
|
|
|-
|12
|Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
|
|
|-
|13
|Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
|
|
|-
|14
|To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
|
|
|-
|15
|My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
|
|
|-
|16
|Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
|
|
|-
|17
|What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
|
|
|-
|18
|The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
|
|
|-
|19
|The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
|
|
|-
|20
|They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
|
|
|-
|21
|For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
|
|
|-
|22
|Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
|
|
|-
|23
|Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
|
|
|-
|24
|Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
|
|
|-
|25
|How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
|
|
|-
|26
|Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
|
|
|-
|27
|Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
|
|
|-
|28
|Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
|
|
|-
|29
|Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
|
|
|-
|30
|Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
|
|
|-
|2
|As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
|
|
|-
|3
|So am I made to possess months of vanity, and wearisome nights are appointed to me.
|
|
|-
|4
|When I lie down, I say, When shall I arise, and the night be gone? and I am full of tossings to and fro unto the dawning of the day.
|
|
|-
|5
|My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.
|
|
|-
|6
|My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.
|
|
|-
|7
|O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
|
|
|-
|8
|The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
|
|
|-
|9
|As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
|
|
|-
|10
|He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
|
|
|-
|11
|Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
|
|
|-
|12
|Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
|
|
|-
|13
|When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
|
|
|-
|14
|Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
|
|
|-
|15
|So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
|
|
|-
|16
|I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
|
|
|-
|17
|What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
|
|
|-
|18
|And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
|
|
|-
|19
|How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
|
|
|-
|20
|I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
|
|
|-
|21
|And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?
|
|
|-
|3
|Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
|
|
|-
|4
|If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;
|
|
|-
|5
|If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
|
|
|-
|6
|If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
|
|
|-
|7
|Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.
|
|
|-
|8
|For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
|
|
|-
|9
|(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
|
|
|-
|10
|Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
|
|
|-
|11
|Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?
|
|
|-
|12
|Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb.
|
|
|-
|13
|So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
|
|
|-
|14
|Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web.
|
|
|-
|15
|He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure.
|
|
|-
|16
|He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden.
|
|
|-
|17
|His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones.
|
|
|-
|18
|If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee.
|
|
|-
|19
|Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow.
|
|
|-
|20
|Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
|
|
|-
|21
|Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
|
|
|-
|22
|They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
|
|
|-
|3
|If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
|
|
|-
|4
|He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
|
|
|-
|5
|Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
|
|
|-
|6
|Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
|
|
|-
|7
|Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
|
|
|-
|8
|Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
|
|
|-
|9
|Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
|
|
|-
|10
|Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
|
|
|-
|11
|Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
|
|
|-
|13
|If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
|
|
|-
|14
|How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
|
|
|-
|15
|Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
|
|
|-
|16
|If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
|
|
|-
|17
|For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
|
|
|-
|18
|He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
|
|
|-
|19
|If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
|
|
|-
|20
|If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
|
|
|-
|21
|Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
|
|
|-
|22
|This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
|
|
|-
|23
|If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
|
|
|-
|24
|The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
|
|
|-
|25
|Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
|
|
|-
|26
|They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
|
|
|-
|27
|If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
|
|
|-
|28
|I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
|
|
|-
|29
|If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
|
|
|-
|30
|If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
|
|
|-
|31
|Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
|
|
|-
|33
|Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
|
|
|-
|34
|Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
|
|
|-
|35
|Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Talk:Gulf of Mexico oil spill

2010-05-15T23:42:56Z

Ameda: /* Marc Antony said that Cesar was ambitious */

Gulf of Mexico oil spill

2010-05-15T22:30:53Z

Ameda: /* Deepwater Horizons */ Leaving this in here the way it was written is blantantly deceitful.

[[File:043010ap oil slick 800.JPG|right|300px|thumb|Oil slick near the Mississippi River delta on 29 April 2010 (NASA)]]
On 31 March 2010 [[President Barack Obama]] announced the resumption of domestic offshore oil drilling at Andrews Air Force Base outside [[Washington, D.C.]]<ref>[http://www.youtube.com/user/AssociatedPress#p/u/6/mA7RAfHN-wo Obama Lifts Ban on Offshore Drilling,] Associated Press, 31 March 2010. Retrieved from [[Youtube]] 9 May 2010.</ref> The President's actions have been labeled, "a decision to endanger our coastal [[ecosystem]]s with the risk of catastrophic oil spills."<ref>[http://members.greenpeace.org/blog/greenpeaceusa_blog/2010/04/30/president_obama_committed_to_endangering President Obama must reinstate moratorium on offshore drilling,] [[Greenpeace]] USA blogs, 30 Apr 2010.</ref> Defending the decision, the President remarked "oil rigs today generally don’t cause spills. They are technologically very advanced."<ref>White House Press Release, [http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-a-discussion-jobs-and-economy-charlotte-north-carolina Remarks by the President in a Discussion on Jobs and the Economy in Charlotte, North Carolina,] Office of the Press Secretary, April 02, 2010. Retrieved from whitehouse.gov 3 May 2010.</ref><ref>Video: [http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/04/29/flashback_obama_says_oil_rigs_today_dont_generally_cause_spills.html Obama Says "Oil Rigs Today Don't Generally Cause Spills"], 2 April 2010. Retrieved from RealClearPolitics.com 12 May 2010.</ref>

According to the ''New York Times'' Obama "said several times during his [[Barack Hussein Obama 2008 Presidential campaign|presidential campaign]] that he supported expanded offshore drilling. He noted in his [[State of the Union]] address<ref>[http://www.c-span.org/Executive/State-of-the-Union.aspx Barack Obama State of the Union Address 2010]. Retrieved from [[C-SPAN]].org 15 May 2010.</ref> in January [2010] that weaning the country from imported oil would require “tough decisions about opening new offshore areas for oil and gas development.”<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/31/science/earth/31energy.html Obama to Open Offshore Areas to Oil Drilling for First Time,] John M. Broder, ''[[New York Times]]'', March 30, 2010.</ref><ref>[http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/03/obama_clears_way_for_oil_drill.html Obama clears way for oil drilling off U.S. coasts], The Associated Press, March 31, 2010, Retrieved from nola.com 8 May 2010.</ref>

==The Obama plan ==
[[File:OCS Eastern Gulf of Mexico Strategy.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Map of expanded areas of offshore oil drilling authorized by President Obama on 31 March 2010.<ref>http://usgovinfo.about.com/b/2010/04/01/obama-offshore-oil-drilling-details.htm</ref> ''Source: United States Department of Interior.'']]
Obama called for expanded development and production throughout the [[Gulf of Mexico]]. The [[Department of Interior]]'s Minerals Management Service (MMS) estimates that the Gulf of Mexico contains 36-41.5 billion barrels of oil and 161-207 trillion cubic feet of natural gas resources. According a DOI press release, Obama's plan would "expand oil and gas development and exploration" while "protecting fisheries, [[tourism]], and places off U.S. coasts that are not appropriate for development."<ref>[http://www.doi.gov/news/pressreleases/2010_03_31_release.cfm Department of Interior Press Release,] 31 March 2010.</ref>

== Deepwater Horizons ==
On [[Earth Day]] 2010, a British Petroleum-leased oil drilling rig sank to the bottom of the [[Gulf of Mexico]] two days after it exploded, creating what has been described as the "worst environmental disaster in [[American History Lectures|US history]]."<ref>[http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m4d29-Worst-environmental-disaster-in-US-history-Oil-slick-in-Gulf-of-Mexico-is-set-on-fire Worst environmental disaster in US history,] Maryann Tobin, ''Examiner'', April 29, 2010.</ref> [[Secretary of the Interior]] [[Ken Salazar]] told [[CNN]] "It potentially is catastrophic," and "I think we have to prepare for the worst."<ref>[http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/gulf-oil-spill:-impossible-to-measure-impact-of-%22unprecedented-environmental-disaster%22-477603.html?tickers=BP,HAL,CAM,RIG,XLE,OIL,USO Gulf Oil Spill: Impossible to Measure Impact of "Unprecedented Environmental Disaster",] Aaron Task, May 03, 2010. Retrieved from Yahoo Finance May 2010.</ref><ref>http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/02/salazar-oil-spill-massive-and-a-potential-catastrophe/</ref>

Congressional investigators think they have identified the rigs blowout preventer as the cause of the explosion. <ref>[http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703339304575240323493707434.html Congress Homes In on Rig's Blowout Preventer,] Ben Casselman and Jennifer Levitz, ''Wall Street Journal Online,'' 13 May 2010.</ref> The blowout preventer was leaking hydraulic fluid, had a dead battery,<ref>Ibid.</ref> and was inspected by the Obama Minerals Management Service (MMS) only two weeks before to the explosion<ref>White House Press Office, [http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/press-briefing-bp-oil-spill-gulf-coast Press Briefing on the BP Oil Spill in the Gulf Coast,] 29 April 2010. Retrieved from whitehouse.gov 12 May 2010.</ref> which killed 11 people. Blowout preventers are meant to shut off the well, and the last line of defense is a set of shear rams which cut the pipe and seal off the well.<ref>Congress Homes In on Rig's Blowout Preventer, Ben Casselman and Jennifer Levitz, ''WSJ Online,'' 13 May 2010.</ref> The MMS, the [[Obama administration]] agency that regulates offshore drilling along with the Coast Guard, is supposed to require proof that shear rams are powerful enough to shut the well. Michael Saucier, MMS's regional supervisor testified before Congress that the MMS didn't check to see if BP was compliant with the [[federal]] regulatory requirements.<ref>Ibid.</ref>

===Slow response ===

On 23 April 2010 [[Department of Homeland Security]] officials with the [[U.S. Coast Guard]] reported the was no leak from the sunken oil rig.<ref>[http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-04-23-deepwater-horizon_N.htm Coast Guard: No oil leaking from sunken rig,] Rick Jervis, ''[[USA TODAY]]'', 23 April 2010.</ref> Administration officially estimated leakage from the sunken well at 1000 barrels per day after studying information from remotely operated vehicles.<ref>[http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/oil-rig-deepwater-horizon_0_n_550849.html Oil Rig, Deepwater Horizon, Leaking Into Gulf Of Mexico,] Cain Burdeau, 4 April 2010. Retrieved from the ''[[Huffington Post]],'' 15 May 2010.</ref> Later administration estimates were raised to 5000 barrels per day,<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/29/us/29spill.html Size of Spill in Gulf of Mexico Is Larger Than Thought,] Campbell Robertson and Leslie Kaufman, ''New York Times,'' 28 April 2010. Retrieved 15 May 2010.</ref> while [[National Public Radio]] has reported the [[Obama administration]]'s estimates may be understated by a factor of ten.<ref>[http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126809525 Gulf Spill May Far Exceed Official Estimates,] Richard Harris, ''National Public Radio,'' 14 May 2010.</ref>

Federal officials did not begin burning the leaking oil off the surface of the water until one full week after the rig collapsed.<ref>http://blog.al.com/live/2010/04/burning_should_have_started_a.html</ref> Louisiana Governor [[Bobby Jindal]] criticized [[President Obama]] for his slow response<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzEntQPr9OA</ref> ''The New York Times'' castigated the [[White House]] for delays and not moving quick enough, calling the evidence "damning" and declaring the Gulf oil spill a "huge disaster whose consequences might have been minimized with swifter action" from the [[Obama administration]].<ref>http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/01/opinion/01sat1.html</ref>

== British Petroleum ==
[[File:Bp-obama-logo.jpg|right|200px|thumb| A symbol that the president is responsible, Obama takes ownership of this crisis. His actions alone will be judged and cannot pass blame onto others as he has previously.]]
During the first 100 days of the [[Obama administration]], the Minerals Management Service (MMS) of the [[Department of the Interior]] granted a “categorical exclusion” from a detailed environmental impact statement required under [[law]]<ref>[http://ceq.hss.doe.gov/nepa/regs/nepa/nepaeqia.htm The National Environmental Policy Act of 1969, as amended.]</ref> to British Petroleum's Deepwater Horizon drilling operation, according to the ''[[Washington Post]].''<ref>[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/04/AR2010050404118.html U.S. exempted BP's Gulf of Mexico drilling from environmental impact study,] Juliet Eilperin, ''Washington Post,'' 5 May 2010.</ref> BP's exploration plan received in the Administration's MMS field office on 23 March 2009 states "no mitigation measures other than those required by regulation and BP policy will be employed to avoid, diminish or eliminate potential impacts on environmental resources." It declared any spill would have only "sub-lethal" effects on fish and marine [[mammal]]s but it was "unlikely that an accidental oil spill would occur from the proposed activities."<ref>http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/documents/initial_exploration_plan050410.pdf</ref>

As Senator, and while running for president, [[Barack Obama]] received a total of $77,051 from British Petroleum<ref>http://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/BP?view=detail&siteid=nwhwk</ref> and has taken more money from BP's [[Political Action Committee]] and individuals connected with BP over the past 20 years than any other candidate, according to [[FEC]] disclosure records.<ref>[http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0505/obama-biggest-recipient-bp-political-action-money-20-years Obama is biggest recipient of BP’s political action cash in the last 20 years,] John Byrne, 5 May 2010. Retrieved from rawstory.com 9 May 2010.</ref> Likewise, the independent watchdog Center for Responsive Politics noted, "the “top recipient of BP-related donations during the 2008 cycle was President Barack Obama himself.”<ref>Jake Tapper, Political Punch, [[ABC News]], 5 May 2010. [http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/05/white-house-idea-that-bp-given-special-exemption-because-of-campaign-cash-to-obama-silly-and-ridiculous.html?cid=6a00d8341c4df253ef0134807669a3970c]</ref><ref>http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/04/on-thursday-oil-giant-bp.html</ref>

==Environmental disaster ==

=== Attempted cleanup ===
''Wired Science'' reports the [[Obama administration]] disaster-relief agencies and BP are using a toxic chemical to disperse oil in the Gulf of Mexico oil spill disaster. Use of dispersants are said to be a public relations strategy.<ref>[http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/05/gulf-dispersants/ Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative,] Brandon Keim, 5 May 2010. Retrieved from ''Wired Science'' 15 May 2010.</ref> U.S.[[Department of Homeland Security]] Secretary [[Janet Napolitano]] reported the dispersants were dropped form [[C-130]] cargo aircraft.<ref>[http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2010-05-02/news/os-oil-disaster-chemical-cleanup-20100502_1_dispersant-spill-crude Oil-spill disaster: Chemicals used in cleanup add to toxic mix,] Kevin Spear, ''Orlando Sentinel,'' 2 May 2010.</ref> Jackie Savitz of the ocean-conservation group Oceana stated the use of dispersants is only slightly less horrendous than the Gulf oil spill itself. "You're basically pouring chemicals into the ocean, which is never a good thing."<ref>Ibid.</ref> According to a 2009 [[Environmental Protection Agency]] report dispersants have not been used in the United State "because of possible long-term environmental effects, difficulties with timely and effective application, disagreement among [[scientist]]s and research data about their environmental effects, effectiveness, and [[toxic]]ity concerns" and the effects "are still unknown."<ref>Ibid.</ref> Dennis Takahashi-Kelso, executive vice president of the [[environmental]] group Ocean Conservancy, said dispersants risk damaging [[ecosystem]]s and hurting wildlife.<ref>Ibid.</ref>

The dispersant 2-BE is known to cause heath dangers to clean up workers and wildlife alike.<ref>[http://www.bellona.org/articles/articles_2010/chem_dispersants_work_at_cost Chemical dispersants seem to be keeping oil from Gulf shore, but results may range from simply cosmetic to very toxic.] Retrieved from Belona.org 15 May 2010.</ref> 2-BE has been documented to cause the breakdown of [[red blood cell]]s, leading to blood in urine and feces, and can damage the kidneys, liver, spleen and [[bone marrow]] of humans – effects not included on the information sheet for workers.<ref>Ibid.</ref> The dispersant Corexit 9500 is associated with headaches, vomiting and reproductive problems as sides effects to clean-up workers.<ref>Ibid.</ref> Lawrence Duffy of the University of Alaska claims dispersants "are more a public relations measure than a preventive one. It has an effect on our psychology because we don't see the oil slick,"<ref>Ibid.</ref> though oil particles continue to do damage.<ref>Oil-spill disaster: Chemicals used in cleanup add to toxic mix, Kevin Spear, ''Orlando Sentinel,'' 2 May 2010.</ref>

Most scientists agree that Corexit 9500 will have a much larger biological effect when it reaches coastal areas teeming with wildlife.<ref>Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative,] Brandon Keim, ''Wired Science,'' 5 May 2010.</ref> Many species are being threatened at a crucial time in their life cycle.<ref>[http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2818588720100428 FACTBOX-Possible environmental impact of Gulf oil spill,] ''[[Reuters]]'', 28 April 2010.</ref>

=== Silverfish ===

In testing done by the U.S. [[Environmental Protection Agency]] the was extremely lethal to silverfish, a benchmark [[organism]] in [[toxic]]ity testing.<ref>Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative, Brandon Keim, 5 May 2010. Retrieved from ''Wired Science'' 15 May 2010.</ref>

=== Gulf menhaden ===

Gulf menhaden are a [[specie]]s harvested mostly for fish meal and fish oil. Menhaden could be badly affected
by the spill.

=== Coral, oyster and shrimp ===

Corals, oyster and shrimp likewise are critically affected. Richard Charter, a foremost expert on marine biology and oil spills who is a senior policy advisor for Marine Programmes for Defenders of Wildlife and is chairman of the Gulf of the Farallones National Marine Sanctuary Advisory Council has said, “There is a [[chemical]] [[toxic]]ity to the dispersant compound that in many ways is worse than oil,” which "in so doing you may be more seriously damaging the ecosystem offshore.”<ref>Chemical dispersants seem to be keeping oil from Gulf shore, but results may range from simply cosmetic to very toxic. Retreived from Belona.org 15 May 2010.</ref> Shrimp were found to be extremely vulnerable to the lethal effects of the chemical dispersant Corexit 9500 used by [[Obama administration]] disaster relief agencies and BP in testing done by the [[Environmental Protection Agency]] (EPA).<ref>Toxic Oil Dispersant Used in Gulf Despite Better Alternative, Brandon Keim, 5 May 2010. Retrieved from ''Wired Science'' 15 May 2010.</ref>
[[File:Slide 6569 89213 small.jpg|right|300px|thumb|Oil-covered bird struggling to stay alive]]
=== Brown pelican ===

The [[Louisiana]] state bird, the brown pelican, was removed from the U.S. Endangered Species Act in 2009 and breeding season has just commenced.

=== Other bird species ===

Other species endangered by the oil spill are American oystercatcher and Wilson's plover.

=== Sea turtles ===

As several species of sea turtles move through the Gulf during their spring nesting season, they need to surface to breathe.

==Economic impacts==

The economic impact of the [[Gulf of Mexico]] oil drilling disaster could be large and devastating to several key industries, including fishing, tourism, and transportation.<ref>[http://www.ihsglobalinsight.com/Perspective/PerspectiveDetail18638.htm Preliminary Economic Assessment of the Gulf Coast Oil Spill,] Nariman Behravesh, 4 May 2010. Retrieved from ihsglobalinsights.com 8 May 2020.</ref>

===Employment in fishing===

Fishing<ref>http://www.marketwatch.com/video/asset/fishing-industry-hammered-by-gulf-oil-spill/41612D0E-B338-464D-A15E-5885B1D227D6</ref> in the Gulf of Mexico employed about 27,000 workers in [[Louisiana]] alone and second to [[Alaska]]'s fishing industry. Dockside sales are approximately $660 million. Loses to the Louisiana fishing industry could be as high as $2.5 billion.<ref>http://www.marketwatch.com/story/insurers-brace-for-liability-hit-from-oil-spill-2010-05-05</ref>

===Tourism===

Tourism along the Gulf coast likewise could be devastated as the spill comes ashore. [[Florida]] tourism industry could lose $3 billion according to analysts at Bernstein Research.<ref>http://www.royalgazette.com/rg/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7da532730030019&sectionId=65</ref>

===Transportation===

The disruption of shipping traffic in and out of the Port of [[New Orleans]] will impact barge, container, and tanker traffic in the Mississippi Delta and along the [[Mississippi River]]. Prices of all types of commodities would affected,

=== Insurance industry ===

British Petroleum (BP), the operator on the oil drilling lease with a 65% stake, insured itself, rather than buying coverage from insurance companies. Industry analysts estimate total costs related to the oil spill clleanup and damages could exceed $14 billion. <ref>[http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE6410IJ20100502 U.S. oil spill could bill could exceed $14 billion,] Tom Bergin, ''Reuters,'' 2 May 2010.</ref>

==Other Liberal Reaction==
Forthcoming

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Obama Administration]]
[[Category:Obama Presidency]]
[[Category:Disasters]]

User:Ameda

2010-05-12T01:35:00Z

Ameda: Userboxes

Hey everybody, I'm new to being an editor but have been reading and loving this site for a few months. Hope to have some good edits and great conversations. More to come...

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{{userboxtop|}}
{{User Christian2}}
{{User OEC}}
{{User GunControLovedByTotalitarians}}
{{User free speech}}
{{User RonPaulOK}}
{{User noracists}}
{{userboxbottom}}

Job 1-9 (Translated)

2010-05-12T00:47:36Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 3 */

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
|There was a man named Job who lived in Uz. He was perfect, righteous, and feared God; truly a man who protected himself from evil.
|
|-
|2
|And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
|He had 7 sons and 3 daughters.
|
|-
|3
|His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
|He was the wealthiest man of the east. His estate included 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 oxen, and 500 female donkeys.
|
|-
|4
|And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
|And his sons ate and drank in their houses and called for their 3 sisters to join them.
|
|-
|5
|And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
|But when the feasting was over, Job called for them and blessed them. He awoke early and offered burnt offerings for each of his sons and daughters and said, "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." And he continued this for awhile.
|
|-
|6
|Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
|One day though, the angels of God assembled before the Lord, as did Satan.
|
|-
|7
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "Where did you come from?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|8
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil?"
|
|-
|9
|Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
|Then Satan replied, "Does Job fear you for nothing?"
|
|-
|10
|"Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
|"Haven't you put up barriers around him, his house, and all that he has to protect him? You have blessed his endeavors and you have increased his wealth."
|
|-
|11
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"If you take away that protection and the blessings of his estate he will curse you to your face"
|
|-
|12
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
|And the Lord said to Satan, "Listen, all of his wealth will be put under your control but you are not to hurt the man himself." Then Satan departed God's presence.
|
|-
|13
|And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|Then one day when Job's sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:
|
|-
|14
|And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
|There arrived a messenger to Job who said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding next to them."
|
|-
|15
|And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And the Sabeans pounced on them and stole them. They also murdered the servants with their swords and I was the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|16
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the messenger was still speaking another came and said, "Fire from God is falling from the sky and has killed the sheep and the servants and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|17
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the second messenger was still talking there came yet another who said, "The Chaldeans, in 3 groups, pounced on the camels and stole them. They also killed the servants with their swords and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|18
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|While the third messenger was still talking there came yet another and he said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:"
|
|-
|19
|And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And a powerful wind came from nowhere and destroyed the four corners of the house and caused it to collapse. It killed your sons and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|20
|Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,
|Job stood up, ripping his robe and shaving his head he fell on the ground and started worshiping God.
|
|-
|21
|And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
|Job said, "I was born naked from my mother's womb and naked I shall return. The Lord gives and he takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."
|
|-
|22
|In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
|Even in all of this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
|Another day came when the angels of God, along with Satan came before God.
|
|-
|2
|And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "From where did you come?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|3
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil? Have you seen that he has remained righteous even though you had convinced me to come against him and ruin him with no cause?"
|
|-
|4
|And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
|Satan answered, "To destroy possessions is one thing, but a man will give everything to save his life."
|
|-
|5
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"Take your hand away now and let ruin come to his body and he will curse you to your face."
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
|The Lord replied, "Listen, he is in your hands now but do not kill him."
|
|-
|7
|So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
|So Satan departed from God and gave Job sore boils from the bottoms of his feet to the top of his head.
|
|-
|8
|And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
|Job took a shard of pottery and sat down among the ashes of his estate and started scraping the boils.
|
|-
|9
|Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
|And his wife came and asked him, "Do you still remain righteous? Why don't you curse God and die?"
|
|-
|10
|But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
|But Job replied, "You speak like a crazy woman speaks. Do we only receive good and not bad at the hands of God?" Even through all of this Job did not sin.
|
|-
|11
|Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.
|When Job's 3 friends heard of all this they came to him from their own houses. Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite, each had agreed to come together to mourn with Job and comfort him.
|
|-
|12
|And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|When they saw him and how much he had changed they raised their voices and wept and tore their garments and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|
|-
|13
|So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great.
|They then sat with Job on the ground for 7 days and nights and no one spoke to him because they saw that his grief was too much.
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
|After awhile Job cursed the day.
|
|-
|2
|And Job spake, and said,
|And he said,
|
|-
|3
|Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
|"I wish I was never born nor conceived."
|
|-
|4
|Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
|"Let that day be dismal, do not let God exalt it, do not let the light shine on it."
|
|-
|5
|Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
|"Let darkness and death stain it and a cloud dwell upon it, let no light shine in the day and let it be terrified because of it."
|
|-
|6
|As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
|"As for that night let darkness hold it and let it not be part of the year nor of any month."
|
|-
|7
|Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
|"Let that night stand alone and let nothing joyful be said about it."
|
|-
|8
|Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.
|"Let them that curse days curse this one; those who are ready to mourn."
|
|-
|9
|Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
|"Let the stars dim inside it, let it look for light but find none. Do not let it see the dawn."
|
|-
|10
|Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
|"For it did not close my mother's womb nor did it hide sorrow from me."
|
|-
|11
|Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
|"Why didn't I just die in the womb? Why did I not become a ghost when I was born?"
|
|-
|12
|Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
|"Why did the knees allow me to enter and why did the breasts nourish me?"
|
|-
|13
|For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
|"For now I would be at rest, at peace. Sleeping contently"
|
|-
|14
|With kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
|"With the kings of the Earth which built things that are now ruins."
|
|-
|15
|Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
|"Or with princes with gold that filled their houses with silver"
|
|-
|16
|Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
|"Why was I not stillborn and had never seen the light of day?"
|
|-
|17
|There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
|"There the wicked can cause no trouble and the righteous can be at rest."
|
|-
|18
|There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
|"There the prisoners rest together and do not hear the voice of their oppressor."
|
|-
|19
|The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.
|"Both small and great are there and the servant is free from the master."
|
|-
|20
|Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;
|"Why is light given to the miserable and life to the bitter soul?"
|
|-
|21
|Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;
|"Both of whom want death but for whom it never comes; those that want it more than riches"
|
|-
|22
|Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
|"Those that rejoice abundantly and who are glad when they finally die."
|
|-
|23
|Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
|"Why is light given to a man who does not know his path, who God has boxed in?"
|
|-
|24
|For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.
|"For my despair comes before food and my cries of pain are poured out like water."
|
|-
|25
|For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
|"That which I have greatly feared has come to me."
|
|-
|26
|I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
|"I have no safety, rest, or peace, only hardship."
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
|
|
|-
|3
|Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
|
|
|-
|4
|Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
|
|
|-
|5
|But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
|
|
|-
|6
|Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
|
|
|-
|7
|Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
|
|
|-
|8
|Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
|
|
|-
|9
|By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
|
|
|-
|10
|The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
|
|
|-
|11
|The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.
|
|
|-
|12
|Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
|
|
|-
|13
|In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
|
|
|-
|14
|Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
|
|
|-
|15
|Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
|
|
|-
|16
|It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
|
|
|-
|17
|Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
|
|
|-
|18
|Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
|
|
|-
|19
|How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
|
|
|-
|20
|They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
|
|
|-
|21
|Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
|
|
|-
|2
|For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
|
|
|-
|3
|I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation.
|
|
|-
|4
|His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them.
|
|
|-
|5
|Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the robber swalloweth up their substance.
|
|
|-
|6
|Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
|
|
|-
|7
|Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
|
|
|-
|8
|I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
|
|
|-
|9
|Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
|
|
|-
|10
|Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
|
|
|-
|11
|To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
|
|
|-
|12
|He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
|
|
|-
|13
|He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
|
|
|-
|14
|They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
|
|
|-
|15
|But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.
|
|
|-
|16
|So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
|
|
|-
|17
|Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
|
|
|-
|18
|For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
|
|
|-
|19
|He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
|
|
|-
|20
|In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.
|
|
|-
|21
|Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
|
|
|-
|22
|At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
|
|
|-
|23
|For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
|
|
|-
|24
|And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth.
|
|
|-
|26
|Thou shalt come to thy grave in a full age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in his season.
|
|
|-
|27
|Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|But Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
|
|
|-
|3
|For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
|
|
|-
|4
|For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
|
|
|-
|5
|Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
|
|
|-
|6
|Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
|
|
|-
|7
|The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
|
|
|-
|8
|Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
|
|
|-
|9
|Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
|
|
|-
|10
|Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
|
|
|-
|11
|What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
|
|
|-
|12
|Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
|
|
|-
|13
|Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
|
|
|-
|14
|To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
|
|
|-
|15
|My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
|
|
|-
|16
|Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
|
|
|-
|17
|What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
|
|
|-
|18
|The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
|
|
|-
|19
|The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
|
|
|-
|20
|They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
|
|
|-
|21
|For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
|
|
|-
|22
|Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
|
|
|-
|23
|Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
|
|
|-
|24
|Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
|
|
|-
|25
|How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
|
|
|-
|26
|Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
|
|
|-
|27
|Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
|
|
|-
|28
|Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
|
|
|-
|29
|Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
|
|
|-
|30
|Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
|
|
|-
|2
|As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
|
|
|-
|3
|So am I made to possess months of vanity, and wearisome nights are appointed to me.
|
|
|-
|4
|When I lie down, I say, When shall I arise, and the night be gone? and I am full of tossings to and fro unto the dawning of the day.
|
|
|-
|5
|My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.
|
|
|-
|6
|My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.
|
|
|-
|7
|O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
|
|
|-
|8
|The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
|
|
|-
|9
|As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
|
|
|-
|10
|He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
|
|
|-
|11
|Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
|
|
|-
|12
|Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
|
|
|-
|13
|When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
|
|
|-
|14
|Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
|
|
|-
|15
|So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
|
|
|-
|16
|I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
|
|
|-
|17
|What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
|
|
|-
|18
|And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
|
|
|-
|19
|How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
|
|
|-
|20
|I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
|
|
|-
|21
|And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?
|
|
|-
|3
|Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
|
|
|-
|4
|If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;
|
|
|-
|5
|If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
|
|
|-
|6
|If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
|
|
|-
|7
|Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.
|
|
|-
|8
|For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
|
|
|-
|9
|(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
|
|
|-
|10
|Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
|
|
|-
|11
|Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?
|
|
|-
|12
|Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb.
|
|
|-
|13
|So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
|
|
|-
|14
|Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web.
|
|
|-
|15
|He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure.
|
|
|-
|16
|He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden.
|
|
|-
|17
|His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones.
|
|
|-
|18
|If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee.
|
|
|-
|19
|Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow.
|
|
|-
|20
|Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
|
|
|-
|21
|Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
|
|
|-
|22
|They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
|
|
|-
|3
|If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
|
|
|-
|4
|He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
|
|
|-
|5
|Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
|
|
|-
|6
|Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
|
|
|-
|7
|Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
|
|
|-
|8
|Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
|
|
|-
|9
|Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
|
|
|-
|10
|Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
|
|
|-
|11
|Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
|
|
|-
|13
|If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
|
|
|-
|14
|How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
|
|
|-
|15
|Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
|
|
|-
|16
|If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
|
|
|-
|17
|For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
|
|
|-
|18
|He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
|
|
|-
|19
|If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
|
|
|-
|20
|If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
|
|
|-
|21
|Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
|
|
|-
|22
|This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
|
|
|-
|23
|If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
|
|
|-
|24
|The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
|
|
|-
|25
|Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
|
|
|-
|26
|They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
|
|
|-
|27
|If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
|
|
|-
|28
|I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
|
|
|-
|29
|If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
|
|
|-
|30
|If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
|
|
|-
|31
|Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
|
|
|-
|33
|Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
|
|
|-
|34
|Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
|
|
|-
|35
|Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Job 1-9 (Translated)

2010-05-12T00:19:48Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 2 */

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
|There was a man named Job who lived in Uz. He was perfect, righteous, and feared God; truly a man who protected himself from evil.
|
|-
|2
|And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
|He had 7 sons and 3 daughters.
|
|-
|3
|His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
|He was the wealthiest man of the east. His estate included 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 oxen, and 500 female donkeys.
|
|-
|4
|And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
|And his sons ate and drank in their houses and called for their 3 sisters to join them.
|
|-
|5
|And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
|But when the feasting was over, Job called for them and blessed them. He awoke early and offered burnt offerings for each of his sons and daughters and said, "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." And he continued this for awhile.
|
|-
|6
|Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
|One day though, the angels of God assembled before the Lord, as did Satan.
|
|-
|7
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "Where did you come from?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|8
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil?"
|
|-
|9
|Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
|Then Satan replied, "Does Job fear you for nothing?"
|
|-
|10
|"Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
|"Haven't you put up barriers around him, his house, and all that he has to protect him? You have blessed his endeavors and you have increased his wealth."
|
|-
|11
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"If you take away that protection and the blessings of his estate he will curse you to your face"
|
|-
|12
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
|And the Lord said to Satan, "Listen, all of his wealth will be put under your control but you are not to hurt the man himself." Then Satan departed God's presence.
|
|-
|13
|And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|Then one day when Job's sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:
|
|-
|14
|And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
|There arrived a messenger to Job who said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding next to them."
|
|-
|15
|And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And the Sabeans pounced on them and stole them. They also murdered the servants with their swords and I was the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|16
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the messenger was still speaking another came and said, "Fire from God is falling from the sky and has killed the sheep and the servants and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|17
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the second messenger was still talking there came yet another who said, "The Chaldeans, in 3 groups, pounced on the camels and stole them. They also killed the servants with their swords and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|18
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|While the third messenger was still talking there came yet another and he said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:"
|
|-
|19
|And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And a powerful wind came from nowhere and destroyed the four corners of the house and caused it to collapse. It killed your sons and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|20
|Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,
|Job stood up, ripping his robe and shaving his head he fell on the ground and started worshiping God.
|
|-
|21
|And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
|Job said, "I was born naked from my mother's womb and naked I shall return. The Lord gives and he takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."
|
|-
|22
|In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
|Even in all of this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
|Another day came when the angels of God, along with Satan came before God.
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|2
|And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "From where did you come?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
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|-
|3
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil? Have you seen that he has remained righteous even though you had convinced me to come against him and ruin him with no cause?"
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|4
|And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
|Satan answered, "To destroy possessions is one thing, but a man will give everything to save his life."
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|5
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"Take your hand away now and let ruin come to his body and he will curse you to your face."
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|6
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
|The Lord replied, "Listen, he is in your hands now but do not kill him."
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|7
|So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
|So Satan departed from God and gave Job sore boils from the bottoms of his feet to the top of his head.
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|8
|And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
|Job took a shard of pottery and sat down among the ashes of his estate and started scraping the boils.
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|9
|Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
|And his wife came and asked him, "Do you still remain righteous? Why don't you curse God and die?"
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|10
|But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
|But Job replied, "You speak like a crazy woman speaks. Do we only receive good and not bad at the hands of God?" Even through all of this Job did not sin.
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|-
|11
|Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.
|When Job's 3 friends heard of all this they came to him from their own houses. Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite, each had agreed to come together to mourn with Job and comfort him.
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|12
|And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|When they saw him and how much he had changed they raised their voices and wept and tore their garments and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
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|13
|So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great.
|They then sat with Job on the ground for 7 days and nights and no one spoke to him because they saw that his grief was too much.
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|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
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|-
|2
|And Job spake, and said,
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|3
|Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
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|4
|Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
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|5
|Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
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|6
|As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
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|7
|Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
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|8
|Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.
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|9
|Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
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|10
|Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
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|11
|Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
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|12
|Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
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|13
|For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
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|14
|With kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
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|15
|Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
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|16
|Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
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|17
|There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
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|18
|There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
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|19
|The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.
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|20
|Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;
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|21
|Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;
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|22
|Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
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|23
|Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
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|24
|For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.
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|25
|For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
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|26
|I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
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|}

==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
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|2
|If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
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|3
|Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
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|4
|Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
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|5
|But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
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|6
|Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
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|7
|Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
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|8
|Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
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|9
|By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
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|10
|The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
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|11
|The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.
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|12
|Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
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|13
|In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
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|14
|Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
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|15
|Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
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|16
|It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
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|17
|Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
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|18
|Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
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|19
|How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
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|20
|They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
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|21
|Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.
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|}

==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
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|-
|2
|For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
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|3
|I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation.
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|4
|His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them.
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|5
|Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the robber swalloweth up their substance.
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|6
|Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
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|7
|Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
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|8
|I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
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|9
|Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
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|10
|Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
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|11
|To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
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|12
|He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
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|13
|He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
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|14
|They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
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|15
|But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.
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|16
|So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
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|17
|Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
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|18
|For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
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|19
|He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
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|20
|In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.
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|21
|Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
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|22
|At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
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|23
|For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
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|24
|And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.
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|25
|Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth.
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|26
|Thou shalt come to thy grave in a full age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in his season.
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|27
|Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good.
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|}

==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|But Job answered and said,
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|2
|Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
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|3
|For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
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|4
|For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
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|5
|Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
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|6
|Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
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|7
|The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
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|8
|Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
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|9
|Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
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|10
|Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
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|11
|What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
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|12
|Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
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|13
|Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
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|14
|To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
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|15
|My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
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|16
|Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
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|17
|What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
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|18
|The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
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|19
|The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
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|20
|They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
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|21
|For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
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|22
|Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
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|23
|Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
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|24
|Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
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|25
|How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
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|26
|Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
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|27
|Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
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|28
|Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
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|29
|Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
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|30
|Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?
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|}

==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
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|2
|As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
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|3
|So am I made to possess months of vanity, and wearisome nights are appointed to me.
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|4
|When I lie down, I say, When shall I arise, and the night be gone? and I am full of tossings to and fro unto the dawning of the day.
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|5
|My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.
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|6
|My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.
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|7
|O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
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|8
|The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
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|9
|As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
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|10
|He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
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|11
|Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
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|12
|Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
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|13
|When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
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|14
|Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
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|15
|So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
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|16
|I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
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|17
|What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
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|18
|And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
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|19
|How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
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|20
|I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
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|21
|And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
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==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
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|2
|How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?
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|3
|Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
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|4
|If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;
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|5
|If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
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|6
|If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
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|7
|Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.
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|8
|For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
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|9
|(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
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|10
|Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
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|11
|Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?
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|12
|Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb.
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|13
|So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
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|14
|Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web.
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|15
|He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure.
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|16
|He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden.
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|17
|His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones.
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|18
|If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee.
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|19
|Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow.
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|20
|Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
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|21
|Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
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|22
|They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.
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|}

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Job answered and said,
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|2
|I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
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|3
|If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
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|4
|He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
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|5
|Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
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|6
|Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
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|7
|Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
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|8
|Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
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|9
|Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
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|10
|Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
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|11
|Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
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|12
|Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
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|13
|If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
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|14
|How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
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|15
|Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
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|16
|If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
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|17
|For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
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|18
|He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
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|19
|If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
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|20
|If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
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|21
|Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
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|22
|This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
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|23
|If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
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|24
|The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
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|25
|Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
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|26
|They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
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|27
|If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
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|28
|I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
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|29
|If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
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|30
|If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
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|31
|Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
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|32
|For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
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|33
|Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
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|34
|Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
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|35
|Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.
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|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Job 1-9 (Translated)

2010-05-11T23:53:34Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 1 */ Polishing

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
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!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
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|1
|There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
|There was a man named Job who lived in Uz. He was perfect, righteous, and feared God; truly a man who protected himself from evil.
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|2
|And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
|He had 7 sons and 3 daughters.
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|3
|His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
|He was the wealthiest man of the east. His estate included 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 oxen, and 500 female donkeys.
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|4
|And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
|And his sons ate and drank in their houses and called for their 3 sisters to join them.
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|5
|And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
|But when the feasting was over, Job called for them and blessed them. He awoke early and offered burnt offerings for each of his sons and daughters and said, "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." And he continued this for awhile.
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|6
|Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
|One day though, the angels of God assembled before the Lord, as did Satan.
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|7
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "Where did you come from?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
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|8
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil?"
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|9
|Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
|Then Satan replied, "Does Job fear you for nothing?"
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|10
|"Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
|"Haven't you put up barriers around him, his house, and all that he has to protect him? You have blessed his endeavors and you have increased his wealth."
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|11
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"If you take away that protection and the blessings of his estate he will curse you to your face"
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|12
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
|And the Lord said to Satan, "Listen, all of his wealth will be put under your control but you are not to hurt the man himself." Then Satan departed God's presence.
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|13
|And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|Then one day when Job's sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:
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|14
|And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
|There arrived a messenger to Job who said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding next to them."
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|15
|And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And the Sabeans pounced on them and stole them. They also murdered the servants with their swords and I was the only one to survive to tell you."
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|16
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the messenger was still speaking another came and said, "Fire from God is falling from the sky and has killed the sheep and the servants and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
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|17
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the second messenger was still talking there came yet another who said, "The Chaldeans, in 3 groups, pounced on the camels and stole them. They also killed the servants with their swords and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
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|18
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|While the third messenger was still talking there came yet another and he said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:"
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|19
|And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And a powerful wind came from nowhere and destroyed the four corners of the house and caused it to collapse. It killed your sons and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
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|20
|Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,
|Job stood up, ripping his robe and shaving his head he fell on the ground and started worshiping God.
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|21
|And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
|Job said, "I was born naked from my mother's womb and naked I shall return. The Lord gives and he takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."
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|22
|In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
|Even in all of this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.
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==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
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!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
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|1
|Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
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|2
|And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
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|3
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
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|4
|And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
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|5
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
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|6
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
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|7
|So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
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|8
|And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
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|9
|Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
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|10
|But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
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|11
|Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.
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|12
|And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
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|13
|So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great.
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==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
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!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
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|1
|After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
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|2
|And Job spake, and said,
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|3
|Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
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|4
|Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
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|5
|Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
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|6
|As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
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|7
|Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
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|8
|Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.
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|9
|Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
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|10
|Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
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|11
|Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
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|12
|Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
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|13
|For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
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|14
|With kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
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|15
|Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
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|16
|Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
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|17
|There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
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|18
|There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
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|19
|The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.
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|20
|Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;
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|21
|Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;
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|22
|Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
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|23
|Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
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|24
|For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.
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|25
|For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
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|26
|I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
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==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
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!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
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|1
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
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|2
|If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
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|3
|Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
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|4
|Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
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|5
|But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
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|6
|Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
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|7
|Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
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|8
|Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
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|9
|By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
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|10
|The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
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|11
|The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.
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|12
|Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
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|13
|In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
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|14
|Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
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|15
|Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
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|16
|It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
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|17
|Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
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|18
|Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
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|19
|How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
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|20
|They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
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|21
|Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.
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==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
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!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
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|1
|Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
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|2
|For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
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|3
|I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation.
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|4
|His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them.
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|5
|Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the robber swalloweth up their substance.
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|6
|Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
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|7
|Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
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|8
|I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
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|9
|Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
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|10
|Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
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|11
|To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
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|12
|He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
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|13
|He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
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|14
|They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
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|15
|But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.
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|16
|So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
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|17
|Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
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|18
|For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
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|19
|He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
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|20
|In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.
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|21
|Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
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|22
|At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
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|23
|For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
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|24
|And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.
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|25
|Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth.
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|26
|Thou shalt come to thy grave in a full age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in his season.
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|27
|Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good.
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==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
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!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
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|1
|But Job answered and said,
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|2
|Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
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|3
|For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
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|4
|For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
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|5
|Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
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|6
|Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
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|7
|The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
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|8
|Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
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|9
|Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
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|10
|Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
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|11
|What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
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|12
|Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
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|13
|Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
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|14
|To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
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|15
|My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
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|16
|Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
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|17
|What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
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|18
|The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
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|19
|The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
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|20
|They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
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|21
|For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
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|22
|Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
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|23
|Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
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|24
|Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
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|25
|How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
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|26
|Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
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|27
|Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
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|28
|Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
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|29
|Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
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|30
|Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?
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==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
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!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
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|1
|Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
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|2
|As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
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|3
|So am I made to possess months of vanity, and wearisome nights are appointed to me.
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|4
|When I lie down, I say, When shall I arise, and the night be gone? and I am full of tossings to and fro unto the dawning of the day.
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|5
|My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.
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|6
|My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.
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|7
|O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
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|8
|The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
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|9
|As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
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|10
|He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
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|11
|Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
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|12
|Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
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|13
|When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
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|14
|Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
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|15
|So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
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|16
|I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
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|17
|What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
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|18
|And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
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|19
|How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
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|20
|I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
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|21
|And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
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==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
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!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
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|1
|Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
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|2
|How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?
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|3
|Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
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|4
|If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;
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|5
|If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
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|6
|If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
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|7
|Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.
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|8
|For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
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|9
|(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
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|10
|Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
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|11
|Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?
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|12
|Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb.
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|13
|So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
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|14
|Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web.
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|15
|He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure.
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|16
|He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden.
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|17
|His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones.
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|18
|If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee.
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|19
|Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow.
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|20
|Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
|
|
|-
|21
|Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
|
|
|-
|22
|They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
|
|
|-
|3
|If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
|
|
|-
|4
|He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
|
|
|-
|5
|Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
|
|
|-
|6
|Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
|
|
|-
|7
|Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
|
|
|-
|8
|Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
|
|
|-
|9
|Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
|
|
|-
|10
|Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
|
|
|-
|11
|Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
|
|
|-
|13
|If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
|
|
|-
|14
|How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
|
|
|-
|15
|Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
|
|
|-
|16
|If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
|
|
|-
|17
|For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
|
|
|-
|18
|He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
|
|
|-
|19
|If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
|
|
|-
|20
|If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
|
|
|-
|21
|Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
|
|
|-
|22
|This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
|
|
|-
|23
|If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
|
|
|-
|24
|The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
|
|
|-
|25
|Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
|
|
|-
|26
|They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
|
|
|-
|27
|If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
|
|
|-
|28
|I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
|
|
|-
|29
|If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
|
|
|-
|30
|If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
|
|
|-
|31
|Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
|
|
|-
|33
|Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
|
|
|-
|34
|Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
|
|
|-
|35
|Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Job 1-9 (Translated)

2010-05-11T23:41:22Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 1 */

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
|There was a man named Job who lived in Uz. He was perfect, righteous, and feared God; truly a man who protected himself from evil.
|
|-
|2
|And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
|He had 7 sons and 3 daughters.
|
|-
|3
|His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
|He was the wealthiest man of the east. His estate included 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 oxen, and 500 female donkeys.
|
|-
|4
|And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
|And his sons ate and drank in their houses and called for their 3 sisters to join them.
|
|-
|5
|And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
|But when the feasting was over, Job called for them and blessed them. He awoke early and offered burnt offerings for each of his sons and daughters and said, "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. And he continued this for awhile.
|
|-
|6
|Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
|One day though, the angels of God and Satan assembled before the Lord.
|
|-
|7
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "Where did you come from?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|8
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil?"
|
|-
|9
|Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
|Then Satan replied, "Does Job fear you for nothing?"
|
|-
|10
|"Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
|Haven't you put up barriers around him, his house, and all that he has to protect him? You have blessed his endeavors and you have increased his wealth."
|
|-
|11
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"If you take away the protection and blessings of his estate, he will curse you to your face"
|
|-
|12
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
|And the Lord said to Satan, "Listen, all of his wealth will be put under your control but you are not to hurt the man himself." Then Satan departed God's presence.
|
|-
|13
|And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|Then one day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:
|
|-
|14
|And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
|There arrived a messenger to Job who said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding next to them."
|
|-
|15
|And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And the Sabeans pounced on them and stole them. They also murdered the servants with their swords and I was the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|16
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the messenger was still speaking another came and said, "Fire from God is falling from the sky and has killed the sheep and the servants and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|17
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the second messenger was still talking there came yet another who said, "The Chaldeans, in 3 groups, pounced on the camels and stole them. They also killed the servants with their swords and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|18
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|While the third messenger was still talking there came yet another and he said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:"
|
|-
|19
|And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And a powerful wind came from nowhere and destroyed the four corners of the house and caused it to collapse. It killed your sons and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|20
|Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,
|Job stood up, ripping his robe and shaving his head he fell on the ground and started worshiping God.
|
|-
|21
|And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
|Job said, "I was born naked from my mother's womb and naked I shall return. The Lord gives and he takes away. Blessed be the name of the Lord."
|
|-
|22
|In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
|Even in all of this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
|
|
|-
|2
|And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|
|
|-
|3
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
|
|
|-
|4
|And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
|
|
|-
|5
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
|
|
|-
|7
|So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
|
|
|-
|10
|But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
|
|
|-
|11
|Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.
|
|
|-
|12
|And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|
|
|-
|13
|So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
|
|
|-
|2
|And Job spake, and said,
|
|
|-
|3
|Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
|
|
|-
|4
|Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
|
|
|-
|5
|Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
|
|
|-
|6
|As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
|
|
|-
|7
|Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
|
|
|-
|8
|Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.
|
|
|-
|9
|Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
|
|
|-
|10
|Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
|
|
|-
|11
|Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
|
|
|-
|12
|Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
|
|
|-
|13
|For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
|
|
|-
|14
|With kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
|
|
|-
|15
|Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
|
|
|-
|16
|Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
|
|
|-
|17
|There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
|
|
|-
|18
|There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
|
|
|-
|19
|The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.
|
|
|-
|20
|Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;
|
|
|-
|21
|Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;
|
|
|-
|22
|Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
|
|
|-
|23
|Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
|
|
|-
|24
|For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.
|
|
|-
|25
|For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
|
|
|-
|26
|I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
|
|
|-
|3
|Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
|
|
|-
|4
|Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
|
|
|-
|5
|But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
|
|
|-
|6
|Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
|
|
|-
|7
|Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
|
|
|-
|8
|Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
|
|
|-
|9
|By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
|
|
|-
|10
|The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
|
|
|-
|11
|The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.
|
|
|-
|12
|Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
|
|
|-
|13
|In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
|
|
|-
|14
|Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
|
|
|-
|15
|Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
|
|
|-
|16
|It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
|
|
|-
|17
|Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
|
|
|-
|18
|Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
|
|
|-
|19
|How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
|
|
|-
|20
|They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
|
|
|-
|21
|Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
|
|
|-
|2
|For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
|
|
|-
|3
|I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation.
|
|
|-
|4
|His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them.
|
|
|-
|5
|Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the robber swalloweth up their substance.
|
|
|-
|6
|Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
|
|
|-
|7
|Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
|
|
|-
|8
|I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
|
|
|-
|9
|Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
|
|
|-
|10
|Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
|
|
|-
|11
|To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
|
|
|-
|12
|He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
|
|
|-
|13
|He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
|
|
|-
|14
|They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
|
|
|-
|15
|But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.
|
|
|-
|16
|So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
|
|
|-
|17
|Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
|
|
|-
|18
|For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
|
|
|-
|19
|He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
|
|
|-
|20
|In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.
|
|
|-
|21
|Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
|
|
|-
|22
|At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
|
|
|-
|23
|For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
|
|
|-
|24
|And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth.
|
|
|-
|26
|Thou shalt come to thy grave in a full age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in his season.
|
|
|-
|27
|Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|But Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
|
|
|-
|3
|For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
|
|
|-
|4
|For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
|
|
|-
|5
|Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
|
|
|-
|6
|Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
|
|
|-
|7
|The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
|
|
|-
|8
|Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
|
|
|-
|9
|Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
|
|
|-
|10
|Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
|
|
|-
|11
|What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
|
|
|-
|12
|Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
|
|
|-
|13
|Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
|
|
|-
|14
|To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
|
|
|-
|15
|My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
|
|
|-
|16
|Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
|
|
|-
|17
|What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
|
|
|-
|18
|The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
|
|
|-
|19
|The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
|
|
|-
|20
|They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
|
|
|-
|21
|For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
|
|
|-
|22
|Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
|
|
|-
|23
|Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
|
|
|-
|24
|Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
|
|
|-
|25
|How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
|
|
|-
|26
|Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
|
|
|-
|27
|Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
|
|
|-
|28
|Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
|
|
|-
|29
|Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
|
|
|-
|30
|Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
|
|
|-
|2
|As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
|
|
|-
|3
|So am I made to possess months of vanity, and wearisome nights are appointed to me.
|
|
|-
|4
|When I lie down, I say, When shall I arise, and the night be gone? and I am full of tossings to and fro unto the dawning of the day.
|
|
|-
|5
|My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.
|
|
|-
|6
|My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.
|
|
|-
|7
|O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
|
|
|-
|8
|The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
|
|
|-
|9
|As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
|
|
|-
|10
|He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
|
|
|-
|11
|Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
|
|
|-
|12
|Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
|
|
|-
|13
|When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
|
|
|-
|14
|Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
|
|
|-
|15
|So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
|
|
|-
|16
|I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
|
|
|-
|17
|What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
|
|
|-
|18
|And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
|
|
|-
|19
|How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
|
|
|-
|20
|I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
|
|
|-
|21
|And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?
|
|
|-
|3
|Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
|
|
|-
|4
|If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;
|
|
|-
|5
|If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
|
|
|-
|6
|If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
|
|
|-
|7
|Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.
|
|
|-
|8
|For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
|
|
|-
|9
|(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
|
|
|-
|10
|Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
|
|
|-
|11
|Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?
|
|
|-
|12
|Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb.
|
|
|-
|13
|So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
|
|
|-
|14
|Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web.
|
|
|-
|15
|He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure.
|
|
|-
|16
|He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden.
|
|
|-
|17
|His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones.
|
|
|-
|18
|If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee.
|
|
|-
|19
|Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow.
|
|
|-
|20
|Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
|
|
|-
|21
|Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
|
|
|-
|22
|They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
|
|
|-
|3
|If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
|
|
|-
|4
|He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
|
|
|-
|5
|Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
|
|
|-
|6
|Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
|
|
|-
|7
|Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
|
|
|-
|8
|Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
|
|
|-
|9
|Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
|
|
|-
|10
|Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
|
|
|-
|11
|Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
|
|
|-
|13
|If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
|
|
|-
|14
|How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
|
|
|-
|15
|Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
|
|
|-
|16
|If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
|
|
|-
|17
|For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
|
|
|-
|18
|He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
|
|
|-
|19
|If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
|
|
|-
|20
|If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
|
|
|-
|21
|Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
|
|
|-
|22
|This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
|
|
|-
|23
|If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
|
|
|-
|24
|The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
|
|
|-
|25
|Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
|
|
|-
|26
|They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
|
|
|-
|27
|If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
|
|
|-
|28
|I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
|
|
|-
|29
|If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
|
|
|-
|30
|If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
|
|
|-
|31
|Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
|
|
|-
|33
|Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
|
|
|-
|34
|Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
|
|
|-
|35
|Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Job 1-9 (Translated)

2010-05-11T23:37:21Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 1 */ Started

==Chapter 1==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
|There was a man named Job who lived in Uz. He was perfect, righteous, and feared God; truly a man who protected himself from evil.
|
|-
|2
|And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
|He had 7 sons and 3 daughters.
|
|-
|3
|His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
|He was the wealthiest man of the east. His estate included 7000 sheep, 3000 camels, 500 oxen, and 500 female donkeys.
|
|-
|4
|And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
|And his sons ate and drank in their houses and called for their 3 sisters to join them.
|
|-
|5
|And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
|But when the feasting was over, Job called for them and blessed them. He awoke early and offered burnt offerings for each of his sons and daughters and said, "It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. And he continued this for awhile.
|
|-
|6
|Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
|One day though, the angels of God and Satan assembled before the Lord.
|
|-
|7
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|The Lord said to Satan, "Where did you come from?" and Satan replied, "From journeying to all parts of the Earth."
|
|-
|8
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
|And the Lord said unto Satan, "Have you seen Job, my servant, a man like no other, perfect and righteous, one that fears me and protects himself from evil?"
|
|-
|9
|Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
|Then Satan replied, "Does Job fear you for nothing?"
|
|-
|10
|"Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
|Haven't you put up barriers around him, his house, and all that he has to protect him? You have blessed his endeavors and you have increased his wealth."
|
|-
|11
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|"If you take away the protection and blessings of his estate, he will curse you to your face"
|
|-
|12
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
|And the Lord said to Satan, "Listen, all of his wealth will be put under your control but you are not to hurt the man himself." Then Satan departed God's presence.
|
|-
|13
|And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|Then one day when his sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:
|
|-
|14
|And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:
|There arrived a messenger to Job who said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were feeding next to them."
|
|-
|15
|And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And the Sabeans pounced on them and stole them. They also murdered the servants with their swords and I was the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|16
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the messenger was still speaking another came and said, "Fire from God is falling from the sky and has killed the sheep and the servants and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|17
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|While the second messenger was still talking there came yet another who said, "The Chaldeans, in 3 groups, pounced on the camels and stole them. They also killed the servants with their swords and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|18
|While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:
|While the third messenger was still talking there came yet another and he said, "Your sons and daughters were eating and drinking alcohol in the oldest brother's house:"
|
|-
|19
|And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
|"And a powerful wind came from nowhere and destroyed the four corners of the house and caused it to collapse. It killed your sons and I am the only one to survive to tell you."
|
|-
|20
|Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
|
|
|-
|21
|And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
|
|
|-
|22
|In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 2==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
|
|
|-
|2
|And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
|
|
|-
|3
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
|
|
|-
|4
|And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
|
|
|-
|5
|But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
|
|
|-
|6
|And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
|
|
|-
|7
|So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
|
|
|-
|10
|But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
|
|
|-
|11
|Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.
|
|
|-
|12
|And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
|
|
|-
|13
|So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 3==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
|
|
|-
|2
|And Job spake, and said,
|
|
|-
|3
|Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.
|
|
|-
|4
|Let that day be darkness; let not God regard it from above, neither let the light shine upon it.
|
|
|-
|5
|Let darkness and the shadow of death stain it; let a cloud dwell upon it; let the blackness of the day terrify it.
|
|
|-
|6
|As for that night, let darkness seize upon it; let it not be joined unto the days of the year, let it not come into the number of the months.
|
|
|-
|7
|Lo, let that night be solitary, let no joyful voice come therein.
|
|
|-
|8
|Let them curse it that curse the day, who are ready to raise up their mourning.
|
|
|-
|9
|Let the stars of the twilight thereof be dark; let it look for light, but have none; neither let it see the dawning of the day:
|
|
|-
|10
|Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
|
|
|-
|11
|Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?
|
|
|-
|12
|Why did the knees prevent me? or why the breasts that I should suck?
|
|
|-
|13
|For now should I have lain still and been quiet, I should have slept: then had I been at rest,
|
|
|-
|14
|With kings and counsellers of the earth, which built desolate places for themselves;
|
|
|-
|15
|Or with princes that had gold, who filled their houses with silver:
|
|
|-
|16
|Or as an hidden untimely birth I had not been; as infants which never saw light.
|
|
|-
|17
|There the wicked cease from troubling; and there the weary be at rest.
|
|
|-
|18
|There the prisoners rest together; they hear not the voice of the oppressor.
|
|
|-
|19
|The small and great are there; and the servant is free from his master.
|
|
|-
|20
|Wherefore is light given to him that is in misery, and life unto the bitter in soul;
|
|
|-
|21
|Which long for death, but it cometh not; and dig for it more than for hid treasures;
|
|
|-
|22
|Which rejoice exceedingly, and are glad, when they can find the grave?
|
|
|-
|23
|Why is light given to a man whose way is hid, and whom God hath hedged in?
|
|
|-
|24
|For my sighing cometh before I eat, and my roarings are poured out like the waters.
|
|
|-
|25
|For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.
|
|
|-
|26
|I was not in safety, neither had I rest, neither was I quiet; yet trouble came.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 4==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
|
|
|-
|3
|Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
|
|
|-
|4
|Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
|
|
|-
|5
|But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
|
|
|-
|6
|Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
|
|
|-
|7
|Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
|
|
|-
|8
|Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
|
|
|-
|9
|By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
|
|
|-
|10
|The roaring of the lion, and the voice of the fierce lion, and the teeth of the young lions, are broken.
|
|
|-
|11
|The old lion perisheth for lack of prey, and the stout lion's whelps are scattered abroad.
|
|
|-
|12
|Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
|
|
|-
|13
|In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
|
|
|-
|14
|Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
|
|
|-
|15
|Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
|
|
|-
|16
|It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
|
|
|-
|17
|Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
|
|
|-
|18
|Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
|
|
|-
|19
|How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
|
|
|-
|20
|They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.
|
|
|-
|21
|Doth not their excellency which is in them go away? they die, even without wisdom.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 5==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Call now, if there be any that will answer thee; and to which of the saints wilt thou turn?
|
|
|-
|2
|For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.
|
|
|-
|3
|I have seen the foolish taking root: but suddenly I cursed his habitation.
|
|
|-
|4
|His children are far from safety, and they are crushed in the gate, neither is there any to deliver them.
|
|
|-
|5
|Whose harvest the hungry eateth up, and taketh it even out of the thorns, and the robber swalloweth up their substance.
|
|
|-
|6
|Although affliction cometh not forth of the dust, neither doth trouble spring out of the ground;
|
|
|-
|7
|Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.
|
|
|-
|8
|I would seek unto God, and unto God would I commit my cause:
|
|
|-
|9
|Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvellous things without number:
|
|
|-
|10
|Who giveth rain upon the earth, and sendeth waters upon the fields:
|
|
|-
|11
|To set up on high those that be low; that those which mourn may be exalted to safety.
|
|
|-
|12
|He disappointeth the devices of the crafty, so that their hands cannot perform their enterprise.
|
|
|-
|13
|He taketh the wise in their own craftiness: and the counsel of the froward is carried headlong.
|
|
|-
|14
|They meet with darkness in the daytime, and grope in the noonday as in the night.
|
|
|-
|15
|But he saveth the poor from the sword, from their mouth, and from the hand of the mighty.
|
|
|-
|16
|So the poor hath hope, and iniquity stoppeth her mouth.
|
|
|-
|17
|Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
|
|
|-
|18
|For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
|
|
|-
|19
|He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.
|
|
|-
|20
|In famine he shall redeem thee from death: and in war from the power of the sword.
|
|
|-
|21
|Thou shalt be hid from the scourge of the tongue: neither shalt thou be afraid of destruction when it cometh.
|
|
|-
|22
|At destruction and famine thou shalt laugh: neither shalt thou be afraid of the beasts of the earth.
|
|
|-
|23
|For thou shalt be in league with the stones of the field: and the beasts of the field shall be at peace with thee.
|
|
|-
|24
|And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt visit thy habitation, and shalt not sin.
|
|
|-
|25
|Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thine offspring as the grass of the earth.
|
|
|-
|26
|Thou shalt come to thy grave in a full age, like as a shock of corn cometh in in his season.
|
|
|-
|27
|Lo this, we have searched it, so it is; hear it, and know thou it for thy good.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 6==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|But Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
|
|
|-
|3
|For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
|
|
|-
|4
|For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
|
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|-
|5
|Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
|
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|-
|6
|Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
|
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|-
|7
|The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
|
|
|-
|8
|Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
|
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|-
|9
|Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
|
|
|-
|10
|Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
|
|
|-
|11
|What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
|
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|-
|12
|Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
|
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|-
|13
|Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
|
|
|-
|14
|To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
|
|
|-
|15
|My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
|
|
|-
|16
|Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
|
|
|-
|17
|What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
|
|
|-
|18
|The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
|
|
|-
|19
|The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
|
|
|-
|20
|They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
|
|
|-
|21
|For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
|
|
|-
|22
|Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
|
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|-
|23
|Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
|
|
|-
|24
|Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
|
|
|-
|25
|How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
|
|
|-
|26
|Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
|
|
|-
|27
|Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
|
|
|-
|28
|Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
|
|
|-
|29
|Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
|
|
|-
|30
|Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 7==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?
|
|
|-
|2
|As a servant earnestly desireth the shadow, and as an hireling looketh for the reward of his work:
|
|
|-
|3
|So am I made to possess months of vanity, and wearisome nights are appointed to me.
|
|
|-
|4
|When I lie down, I say, When shall I arise, and the night be gone? and I am full of tossings to and fro unto the dawning of the day.
|
|
|-
|5
|My flesh is clothed with worms and clods of dust; my skin is broken, and become loathsome.
|
|
|-
|6
|My days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle, and are spent without hope.
|
|
|-
|7
|O remember that my life is wind: mine eye shall no more see good.
|
|
|-
|8
|The eye of him that hath seen me shall see me no more: thine eyes are upon me, and I am not.
|
|
|-
|9
|As the cloud is consumed and vanisheth away: so he that goeth down to the grave shall come up no more.
|
|
|-
|10
|He shall return no more to his house, neither shall his place know him any more.
|
|
|-
|11
|Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
|
|
|-
|12
|Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
|
|
|-
|13
|When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
|
|
|-
|14
|Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
|
|
|-
|15
|So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
|
|
|-
|16
|I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
|
|
|-
|17
|What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
|
|
|-
|18
|And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
|
|
|-
|19
|How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
|
|
|-
|20
|I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
|
|
|-
|21
|And why dost thou not pardon my transgression, and take away mine iniquity? for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 8==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then answered Bildad the Shuhite, and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|How long wilt thou speak these things? and how long shall the words of thy mouth be like a strong wind?
|
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|-
|3
|Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice?
|
|
|-
|4
|If thy children have sinned against him, and he have cast them away for their transgression;
|
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|-
|5
|If thou wouldest seek unto God betimes, and make thy supplication to the Almighty;
|
|
|-
|6
|If thou wert pure and upright; surely now he would awake for thee, and make the habitation of thy righteousness prosperous.
|
|
|-
|7
|Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase.
|
|
|-
|8
|For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
|
|
|-
|9
|(For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow:)
|
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|-
|10
|Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?
|
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|-
|11
|Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water?
|
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|-
|12
|Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb.
|
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|-
|13
|So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
|
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|-
|14
|Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web.
|
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|-
|15
|He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure.
|
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|-
|16
|He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden.
|
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|-
|17
|His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones.
|
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|-
|18
|If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee.
|
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|-
|19
|Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow.
|
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|-
|20
|Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers:
|
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|-
|21
|Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing.
|
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|-
|22
|They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.
|
|
|-
|}

==Chapter 9==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then Job answered and said,
|
|
|-
|2
|I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God?
|
|
|-
|3
|If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.
|
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|-
|4
|He is wise in heart, and mighty in strength: who hath hardened himself against him, and hath prospered?
|
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|-
|5
|Which removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger.
|
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|-
|6
|Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble.
|
|
|-
|7
|Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars.
|
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|-
|8
|Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
|
|
|-
|9
|Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.
|
|
|-
|10
|Which doeth great things past finding out; yea, and wonders without number.
|
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|-
|11
|Lo, he goeth by me, and I see him not: he passeth on also, but I perceive him not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Behold, he taketh away, who can hinder him? who will say unto him, What doest thou?
|
|
|-
|13
|If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
|
|
|-
|14
|How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
|
|
|-
|15
|Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
|
|
|-
|16
|If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
|
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|-
|17
|For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
|
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|-
|18
|He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
|
|
|-
|19
|If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
|
|
|-
|20
|If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
|
|
|-
|21
|Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
|
|
|-
|22
|This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
|
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|-
|23
|If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
|
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|-
|24
|The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
|
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|-
|25
|Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
|
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|-
|26
|They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
|
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|-
|27
|If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
|
|
|-
|28
|I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
|
|
|-
|29
|If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
|
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|-
|30
|If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
|
|
|-
|31
|Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
|
|
|-
|33
|Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
|
|
|-
|34
|Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
|
|
|-
|35
|Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.
|
|
|-
|}

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Talk:Essay:Quantifying Order

2009-11-16T04:47:36Z

Ameda: Commas are my friends.

"Subsequently, however, more accurate measurements with more sophisticated technology have determined this precession to be 55 arc-seconds per century, nearly 30% off the number provided by relativity."

Please provide a citation in the article for this. I'm shocked that I somehow missed the news. Thanks much. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 17:48, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:I'm urging you to look beyond what you're taught. I went through the same physics curriculum as others, and it is what isn't taught that matters. Earnestly.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:53, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::Okay. Let's find a way of making that point without quoting an incorrect value for the Mercury anomaly then? Cause putting in a number that's not actually supported by observations just to make a philosophical point seems kind of … I dunno. Deceptive? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 17:58, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, if I can call you that, I have no reason to lie about this. I'm not applying for any grants. I'm not trying to get a PhD from liberal professors. I'm not worried about what my colleagues might say. Like the Bible, I'm just telling the truth, and trying to learn more of it.

:::The physics journals all seem to require payment for access. But type this into a Google search: 5599.7 Mercury. You'll then see what the liberal physics professors won't tell you, as Google returns fragments from limited-access journals. Then, please, pause for a moment and ask yourself: why didn't they tell you this so you could decide for yourself, rather than being told what to think?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:40, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::::Oh, okay. I see where you made an honest mistake.

::::There are two numbers at play here: there's the ''observed'' precession of Mercury's orbit, and then there's the ''anomaly.'' The anomaly is the amount by which the observed precession differs from the mathematically predicted precession. What you did was quote a figure for the ''anomaly'' using the figure for the ''observed'' precession. Hang on, lemme splain.

::::The precession of an orbit is the sum of several effects. Newton's approximation for gravity predicted three different effects: axial precession of 5,025 arc seconds per century, 530 additional arc seconds per century from the gravitational effects of the other planets, and a tiny amount, less than one arc second per century, due to the fact that the sun isn't a perfect sphere. (Those numbers are all rounded off; the precise figures are trivially googlable.)

::::If you add up the precession predicted by Newton's approximation, you get exactly 5,557.02 arc seconds per century.

::::But if you run the numbers using the Einstein equations instead of the Newton equations — using the same constants for things like the mass and shape of the sun — you get a precession of exactly 5,600±0.04 arc seconds per century. It's really weird that it would be a round number like that, but that's how the math works out.

::::The observed precession of Mercury's orbit? It's 5,599.7 arc seconds per century. Which is where you got your number from. And that means the general relativity prediction was accurate to within (deep breath) one half of one one hundredth of one percent.

::::That's like shooting an arrow from Los Angeles and hitting the bullseye in Melbourne.

::::Would you be a dear and remove the incorrect anomaly figure from your essay now? I know it's a work in progress and I hate nitpickers, but somebody could stumble across that and be misinformed.--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 19:11, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Your point is an excellent one. Thank you. The 30% figure was wrong for the reasons you provide.

:::::But the underlying point in this entry remains correct: due to advances in precision in measurement, the prediction of relativity no longer matches the data on the precession. The discrepancy is much greater than the margin of error, which is all that matters from a logical perspective. The entry has been updated accordingly, and I welcome further comments you may have.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:44, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(Unindent) I'm not sure you're going to welcome these comments, sir. Because you're just flat-out, provably, unequivocally wrong on this one. The observed value of the precession of Mercury hasn't been changed in a hundred years, because it's a direct observation. We measured it with telescopes, and those were just fine at that scale a century ago.

I'm afraid your edit made the offending section paragraph ''even more misleading than it was.'' Predicted value of the precession (via Newton) in 1915: 5,557. Observed value in 1915? 5,600. Difference? 43. Predicted value from the Einstein equations? 5,600. Observed value today? Still 5,600. Difference? Ridiculously small. I ''know'' you're actively working on this essay, and I feel ''really'' bad about beating you up over this, but you wouldn't have the paragraph in there unless you thought it had value.

Just so you know, I've got some feedback on your paragraph on quantum mechanics as well. For starters, the position and momentum of a particle is exactly as uncertain after an observation as it is before, because reducing uncertainty of the position increases uncertainty of the momentum and vice versa. They're intrinsically linked. Maybe that's not your point; measuring a particle does, I suppose, bring about a sort of philosophical order that was previously absent — we know where the particle is now — but at the cost of reducing our knowledge about another aspect of the particle's motion. But your essay isn't fleshed out enough for me to really see yet what you're getting at, so that might be irrelevant to your point. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 20:00, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:Kate, I don't have an ax to grind about this. General Relativity was developed to explain the Mercury precession, so the theory certainly should fit the data. I expected that it would. But the fit isn't there anymore, due to more precise measurements. It's beyond the margin of error, and logically that's all that matters. You're using rounding above that obscures what the margin of error is. Professor Will does not even include this test in his recent summary of all the evidence for GR, and we can now see why. Those are the facts, and logic applied to the facts. Anyone has free will to accept or deny it. I accept the facts and logic as they require.

:You make an interesting point about position, but I don't think the essay is incorrect because it says nothing about momentum. Observation can pin down the position, which is relevant to establishing order. But without observation there is disorder. That is the basic point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:11, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::Right, but there's an error of fact buried in there. It's a totally innocent one, I'm sure; I'm not accusing you of axe-grinding. It's just that the precession of the perihelion of Mercury ''has not changed'' since 1916 when the theory was published. It's not that we measured it with telescopes before 1916 and got a rough estimate, and now we measure it with better telescopes and have a much more precise figure. We measured it before 1916 and got a very accurate figure because measuring the motion of Mercury just isn't that hard, and the measurements we make today with better telescopes say only that yup, the older measurements were pretty much spot on.

::What we ''have'' done since then is to much more precisely measure the oblateness of the sun. There was a big controversy about that back in the … hmm … 80s I think it was? Goldberg and Dicke claimed that the sun was much "fatter" than previously thought, which ''would have'' made the predictions from general relativity different from the observed precession. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? For a while there was a lot of disagreement about what shape the sun actually is, but that's been pretty much put to bed with both more accurate ground-based observations in the 90s and helioseismography.

::Anyway, saying that the prediction matched the observation in 1916 and doesn't today is simply flat-out false. If your argument depends on it, then you're hurting your argument with this point. If it doesn't, then what's the harm in fixing it?

::Thanks for clarifying your point about quantum mechanics. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 20:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, as I said, I don't care either way, but I am going to tell the truth. GR fit the observed data in 1916 (indeed, GR was developed to fit it), but now (due to more sophisticated measurements) the GR prediction is wrong ''by more than the margin of error''. None of your comments above address the margin of error, which must be the scientific focus. A difference between theory and observation is not "ridiculously small" if it is more than the margin of error, as in this case.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:47, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::: Perhaps this is what Mr. Schlafly is referring to. The article states that 5599.7 arc-seconds is the observed value. KSorenson is quoting a value of 5,600 (±0.04). 5600-.04=5599.96. From just those values then yes the relativity value is higher by .26 arc-seconds even factoring in the error. The only thing I ask is what is the error range for the observed value? [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 21:08, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Presumably the error range for the observed value is no more than .1. Again, note that Professor Will conspicuously omits this famous claim of evidence for GR from his recent comprehensive summary of the evidence for GR, as cited in this entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:12, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent again because I'm lazy with bullets) We can do a heck of a lot better than "presumably," Andy, and as a person who cares deeply about facts and logic, you darned well know that. I happen to have the Pijpers paper from 94 here; I dug it out when I thought you might have been thinking of helioseismography. In it he cites radar ranging studies from 1976 to 1992. Here's the data, ''with margins of error.'' Note that these numbers are for ''the anomaly,'' and not the precession total, and remember that the figure from the Einstein equation is 42.98 ± 0.04, okay?

*43.11 ± 0.21 (Shapiro 76)
*42.92 ± 0.20 (Anderson 87)
*42.94 ± 0.20 (Anderson 91)
*43.13 ± 0.14 (Anderson 92)

So the Einstein prediction is within the margin of error of those four radar-ranging measurements of the Mercury anomaly. I'm sure there've been more recent studies, but I don't have them literally sitting in front of my face at the moment, so those are the ones I'm citing. Can I see your numbers that say the Einstein prediction is outside the margin? More recent data than what I have in my hand here maybe? (This Pijpers paper is [http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/9804258v1 on ARXIV], by the way, if you want to check it out.)--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 21:17, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Oh, and just incidentally? Will didn't leave Mercury out of his paper; he just talked about it in really jargony physics-paper language.

:Three decades of experiments, ranging from the standard light-deﬂection and perihelion-shift tests to lunar laser ranging, planetary and satellite tracking, and geophysical and astronomical observations, have placed bounds on the PPN parameters consistent with general relativity.

"PPN" is the ''parameterized post''-''Newton'' formalism, a rewriting of the law of universal gravitation to include coefficients derived from general relativity. The Einstein field equations are nightmarish to solve, so PPN was created as a middle-ground approximation between the (good but not good enough in some contexts) Newton approximation and the agonizing pain of having to actually ''solve'' the Einstein field equations every time you want to calculate the delta-vee required during a solar slingshot maneuver for a planetary probe. What Will said in that paper is the PPN approximation has been tested ''against general relativity'' and supported by 30 years of experiments.

This is really getting into the tall grass, and I know how you hate wasting time. Maybe we can bring this conversation to a conclusion? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 21:38, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:Kate, I have an open mind about this but, quite honestly, the relativists protest too much. Why do you care so much about defending relativity? Not to pick on you, however, because many trained in math and physics likewise defend relativity like they are defending their own reputation. It's bizarre. Regardless of the reason, protesting too much is not scientific.

:Answering the substance of your post, your most recent data is from 1992 (17 years ago, with the data probably older than that), and its margin of error confirms what I said: it's approaching 0.1. Combine that 0.1 (or 0.14 if you like) with the most recent data and it's clear that GR no longer fits the data. Of course, no one is going to dare publish a paper claiming GR is disproved by the data, and even if they tried, no journal would accept it. So the trail goes cold at this point, just as the data diverge from the GR predictions and the margin of error declines to where it can't save GR.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::"Why do you care so much about defending relativity?" 'Cause teaching physics is something I do for a living. 'Cause I think it's really neat. 'Cause seeing somebody totally misunderstand it, and then go on to draw incorrect conclusions based on his misunderstanding of it, and finally to pass those incorrect conclusions on to impressionable kids who trust him … well, that just breaks my heart. You can call it protesting too much if you want, Andy. But I wish you could understand that it's really just me trying to help.

::I wouldn't have fought you on this at all if you'd said something like "A dozen eggs contains fifteen eggs, plus or minus two." That's just ''obviously'' wrong, and nobody who reads it would fall for it. But you're hiding your false conclusion behind a wall of data that you know most people won't bother looking up for themselves, and that's just dishonest. That's unworthy of anybody who'd call himself a teacher, and what's more I think you know that in your heart. You seem like a conscientious guy; what does your conscience say to you about this?

::Anyway, it's your essay, you can obviously write what you want. But let me just give you a heads up: Next week, when I put your [[theory of relativity]] page on the table for major surgery? I don't think you're gonna like it. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:24, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, you didn't address the substance of my comment about the evidence, but don't worry about it. The bottom line is clear: no physics major, no physics grad student, and no physics teacher should dare criticize relativity, no matter what the data say. The political grip on this issue is intense. In fact, to be honest, I would advise against your criticizing it in any way. It could harm your (or any other teacher's or physicist's) career. There are examples of people who were denied tenure simply because they criticized evolution, and the politics here is just as strong.

:::I look forward to learning from your entry on the theory of relativity. The math is fascinating regardless of its manifestation in reality.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:33, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent) "Kate, you didn't address the substance of my comment about the evidence, but don't worry about it." What was there to address? You made an arithmetic error. Do you want me to send you the Mathematica scatterplot I made just to triple-check that I was interpreting the data correctly? It's pretty. The error bars are blue.

Andy, I wish I could get you to come to my department for a week. Just one week, any week. Our students, grad students, associates, profs, chair, heck, even the ''janitor'' criticizes relativity every day. I could get you a meeting with one of our theoretical cosmologist; he's been pulling his ''hair'' out for years trying to make some progress on the vacuum energy problem. For a while there he was coming into my office a couple times a week and saying … well, unprintable things about partial differential equations. Even we theoretical physicists think general relativity is a mathematical mess.

But we respect it anyway. Because it ''works,'' at least as far as anybody's been able to measure.

Can I ask you a question? What's your beef with relativity? I mean, I know you question the data, but … why? Are you just being iconoclastic? I don't mean that in a dismissive way; I totally understand and respect the impulse to say "Everybody agrees that this is true, so I'm going to question it!" I'd really just like to understand your point of view on this, whatever it may be. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:44, 14 November 2009 (EST)

: GR's predictions are off by more than the margin of error, as we discussed in detail above; it and special relativity have absurd discontinuities; there are logical flaws, as in relativistic mass; it conflicts with QM; and it predicts gravitons that have never been found despite wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on it. Relativity pulls people away from reading the Bible and relativity is pushed big-time by liberals. It chills progress by intimidating people against criticizing it. Other than that, the theory is pretty good!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:05, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::Wow, Mr. Schlafly must really like this conversation, he actually made a joke. ;) jk [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 00:15, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::Thanks very much for taking the time to reply; I understand better now. Of course, some of that is unmitigated garbage, and we'll have plenty of chances to deal with it when I fix your [[theory of relativity]] article next week, so I'll skip some points for now.

:::*''You'' discussed the fact that the predictions are outside the margin of error; ''I'' pointed out to you repeatedly that you were mistaken. I even offered to show you a plot. So come on.

:::*To be frank, relativity doesn't ''conflict'' with quantum mechanics; the two theories don't overlap in any domains we can presently observe. But that's the problem. They don't overlap, so we don't know how we're going to understand systems where both gravity and quantum mechanics have non-negligible effects. It's entirely possible that every such region of spacetime is sequestered behind an event horizon; that's jokingly called the "convenient cosmic censorship hypothesis" by one of my colleagues.

:::*General relativity doesn't predict gravitons at all. General relativity doesn't say anything about particles; the Standard Model predicts the existence of particles (like the Higgs). Gravitons are part of the various attempts to reformulate general relativity as a vector gauge theory, none of which have gotten there yet. And, uh, since none of the gauge theories have gotten there yet, Andy, ''not one dollar'' has been spent looking for gravitons. Because we don't know where to look. But we ''do'' know that if they could be detected by existing particle accelerators, they would've been. So if and when physicists decide to look for them, it's going to have to start with building an accelerator the size of our galaxy<ref>WARNING: exaggeration for humorous effect, do not take literally.</ref>, and you'll have your chance to lobby the appropriations committee then.

:::*Yes, studying relativity does take people away from time they could spend in religious activities. So does reading this site. Just give me a chance to copy-and-paste my contributions out before you shut it down to remove the temptation.

:::Anyway, like I said, we'll have plenty of time to have these arguments when I start work on [[theory of relativity]]. All I ask is that you ''engage in constructive collaboration'' with me and whomever else chooses to help out, rather than pouncing on the "undo" button like you did when I rewrote [[black hole]]. We've both demonstrated that we're reasonable adults, I think; we can work together. Deal? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 00:22, 15 November 2009 (EST)

{{reflist}}

::::I've been quietly following this conversation today, but Kate beat me to the "Submit" button! Well, I'll just point out that scientists can and frequently do "intimidat[e] people against criticizing" pretty much any theory, because they think it's right and they don't want to waste time. It's quite likely close-mindedness, but it exists, and you can't take that as disproof of the theory. I don't think someone who rejected Mendel or Maxwell would get pretty far today, either. (Yes, I know Mendel has been amended with epigenetic inheritance, but I think you get my picture). It's just a bothersome red herring.

::::I don't know anything about the Mercury data, but the most recent data I've seen here says general relativity might work; it's at the border of the range of error, and it's too precise for any of us to extrapolate. General relativity could be spot on. Or, a new theory being needed - if you're trying to construct a [[theory of everything]], a new theory definitely is needed to deal with [[quantum mechanics]]! But, general relativity does predict a lot of things better than Newton. Newton didn't explain everything, nor does general relativity - but I think you can find better stuff to attack it with than an extrapolation of Mercury orbital data. --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 00:37, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Ugh, I really should be sleeping, but this is just such an engaging conversation I can't seem to break away.

:::::If you make a measurement to test a theory and the measurement doesn't match the prediction, there are three possibilities. Either the measurement is wrong ("That's not Mercury, that's Saturn!") or the theory is wrong ("Turns out gravity ''isn't'' really caused by leprechauns!") or both are fundamentally right but you failed to take something into account ("We really shouldn't have assumed the sun is a sphere.")

:::::The thing about the Mercury anomaly is that the observed and predicted numbers are ''insanely'' close together. So close as to be declared equal within the margin of error. So either general relativity is ''absolutely'' right and we accounted for ''everything'' — no physicist believes this, by the way — or general relativity is at least ''incredibly close'' to being right, so close that the factors we failed to account for are negligible at the scale of the Mercury anomaly.

:::::But the thing is, Mercury is really thin sauce, as gravity goes. The fields are weak, and the prediction we're testing doesn't say anything terribly interesting about the theory. If you want to get a real feel for how general relativity holds up as a ''physical'' theory, and not just a mathematical one, you really need to look at the Gravity Probe B data. (Conflict of interest alert: I worked on that project.) That experiment didn't measure gravitation indirectly by observing the motion of a particle; it measured it ''directly'' by parallel transporting a vector in a closed loop around a region of curvature. We ''empirically'' measured the curvature of spacetime around a gravitating object (the Earth) and found it to be non-zero. Spacetime is ''not'' flat, massive bodies ''do'' curve spacetime, and the fundamental ''idea'' of general relativity reflects nature.

:::::General relativity doesn't just say that a falling body moves like such-n-such. It tells us ''why.'' And to see it dismissed out of hand because Andy doesn't care for the size of the error bars on the results of a radar study? That, I confess, rubs me the wrong way. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 00:51, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::Great point about experimental error. Before I ''really do'' sign off for the night, Kate, I'd like to give you an article suggestion: [[Gravity_Probe_B]]. I'm enthusiastically looking forward to hearing how it was done! --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 01:00, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::Oh, I'm not the girl to write that one. It'd be 200 pages long and full of equations and whole paragraphs of me going "You guys this is so ''awesome!"'' --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 01:09, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::On the contrary. You are exactly the right girl to write this. But not yet. Do GR first, OK? And you'll have to take off your instructor hat, and put on your explainer-for-lay-people hat, so that it won't be 200 pages long. Whenever you reach the point where you think "You guys this is so ''awesome''", don't go into "and so I have to write the awesome equations". Go into "how can I convey the awesomeness to my reader?". [[User:PatrickD|PatrickD]] 11:32, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::I don't want to perpetuate this debate, but I don't want a lack of response to be misinterpreted. Relativity has quasi-religious status for many; they'll defend regardless of what the evidence is, regardless of its absurd inconsistencies, and regardless of its far-fetched assumptions and non-falsifiability. I don't mind relativity, and look forward to reviewing the updated entry. But open-mindedness is not a trait of many relativists, who will demonize anyone who points out its fairly obvious flaws.

:::::::One way to evaluate religions, or quasi-religions, is to look at the fruit it bears. What has it helped achieved? In the case of relativity, it has produced nothing. Nil. Zippo. After nearly 100 years and a ton of money. If you find the math in relativity fun, great, but relativity is not going to help anyone. It never has. Pick up a Bible in between some equations.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:31, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::::''"Relativity has quasi-religious status for many…regardless of its far-fetched assumptions and non-falsifiability."'' As has already been shown repeatedly by those knowledgeable and qualified in the subject such as KSorenson the theory of general relativity is eminently falsifiable. For instance the two gravity probes (GP-A and GP-B) were launched specifically to measure rate change of a clock in lower gravity and space-time curvature near the Earth respectively, both experiments specifically testing the theory of relativity. As both experiments were to test the theory of relativity this means that the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be considered falsifiable. This is as patently obvious as stating that 2+2=4. If the theory of relativity is not falsifiable then no experiment can exist to test it. The existence of Gravity Probes A & B automatically that the previous statement cannot be true. So, the undeniable existence of Gravity Probes A & B now proving the falsifiability of the theory of general relativity this means that by Karl Popper's rigorous standard the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be a science. This is immediately obvious to anyone who has made an in depth study of Popper's work, the kind of study that all students of the pure sciences undergo, although strangely enough those students of those subjects which use an applied form of science never seem to be taught such things to the levels required. Presumably this is because the standard of science they are taught is considerably less rigorous or in-depth than the standards expected of and required of students of the pure sciences.

::::::::As the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be considered a science then this in turn means the first part of your statement: ''"Relativity has a quasi-religious status"'' is itself false. Science is not religion. Religion requires hope, hope that what one believes is true. Science requires absolute cynicism, it requires one to say "this is my idea, help me prove it wrong". To this date tests on the theory of general relativity has failed to show that it is wrong, and where measurements have been made to confirm or deny the accuracy of the general theory of relativity such results have shown that the predictions made by the theory of relativity are accurate to the observed effects well within the scientifically determined margins of error.

::::::::The statement that ''"relativity is not going to help anyone"'' is, of course, as wrong as you can get. The theory of relativity opened up a massive area of study, and there are no known limits to what may be achieved through such studies. It is not hyperbole to state that the creation of the theory of relativity is as important, if not more important, than the discovery of the safe generation and transference of electricity. This is known and accepted by everybody who has an in depth knowledge of the subject, knowledge gained through years of learning and self-teaching that begins after one leaves university, after one has gained the bedrock of knowledge required to begin teaching oneself the true depths of a subject.

::::::::I beg of you this one thing. Open up your Bible and truly study the price one pays for Arrogance and Pride. Learn the lesson that the true Student and Teacher must come to the subjects they study in a state of Humility. Of all the posts on the subject of general relativity each and every person that has made an in depth study of the subject have stated that the views you hold on general relativity are wrong. The only person who states that your views are correct are yourself. Look inside yourself and ask if your stubborn resistance to accept what others learned in the subject have to say on this matter is arrogance, pride or humility.(by DanHutchin)

:::::::::Dan, I accept your challenge. I'll work on translating the Bible tonight and tomorrow with "a state of Humility." Thank you for suggesting it. In the meantime, could you specify how the theory of relativity has helped anyone? Electricity powers hospitals that save lives, and increase productivity and wealth which help the poor throughout the world. You say relativity "is as important, if not more important." Specific examples, please?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:52, 15 November 2009 (EST)

: Sorry for butting in here but I love science, I am a science major currently. In my mind God gave us the scientific method and the tools to explore his creation for his glory. We can debate the merits of relativity all day but the fact remains that if it is true it is part of God's creation and because of that, automatically gives it value. Plus, pure science in a lot of cases leads to applied science. I don't like arguments based on what we don't know. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 22:00, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:: Ameda, that's fine, but surely you'd agree that unproductive theories or beliefs should not squeeze out productive ones. Someone can use rhetoric to defend any belief or activity, from watching television to drinking beer. One can spend hours explaining to an addict why he should, for example, stop smoking. All the explaining in the world is not as powerful as this: ''nothing good comes of it''. Relativity has had nearly 100 years to help somebody, anybody. How many more centuries should we give it priority over alternative, productive work?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:14, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::GPS, fiber optics, solar panels and PET scans don't count?

:::I'm amusingly reminded of what Benjamin Franklin said when asked what good was the then-freshly-invented hot-air balloon. "What good is a newborn baby?" That was 1783; powered flight didn't happen until 1903. If you don't see ''enough'' benefits from relativity yet, I'd say you need to embrace patience. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 22:20, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::: And by "squeeze out" I assume you mean in funding? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, I think it is worth it because it is an integral part of God's creation. Plus, I don't think that just because relativity is given grant money that necessarily means that it is taking it from money that would have gone to say genetically engineering bigger crops. There isn't a one-one correspondence.

::::I agree with a lot on here but honestly Andy, with all respect, I think DanHutchin is right. We all suffer from pride and from all I have read on here, from your brother Roger to Kate above, you are suffering from it big time on this issue. Think, is it really a coincidence that the first part of the Conservative Bible Project I translated was talking about humbling oneself and I did it just this very night? Sorry for the long response but know that it comes from the heart. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 22:29, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::: Amen, Ameda. I appreciate your advice for me to read the Bible more, and with a humbler heart. I'd also like your advice about this. If empirically the promotion of relativity leads people ''away'' from the Bible, would you still support the promotion of relativity? A direct answer from your heart, please.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:43, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::: From the heart, and '''hopefully''' my understanding of the Word, anything can lead people away from the Lord, even if "based" on the Word of God. What I mean by that is people can use and abuse anything, even the Bible to support xyz. ''You know how many times I see Peter Popoff ripping off my brothers and sisters in Christ for some "Miracle spring water"?''

::::::If relativity is part of the fabric of the universe, and I do think that, then it was created by God just as much as the Bible, the stars, etc. and as I said can be used and abused. The only way science can lead one away from the Lord is if there isn't the secondary component to it, the spiritual one, the one stating that this was created by a being that created you and loves you. That is the only thing that needs to be addressed not relativity itself. Basically it seems like you are arguing that God's creation can lead people away from him? I don't think that is scriptural nor correct. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:04, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::No, that's not what I'm saying, and I humbly requested a ''direct'' answer. People who are taught and then believe relativity are less likely to read the Bible again, or as frequently. If true (as we've seen on this site and in colleges), do you still support the promotion of relativity?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:18, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::I don't think that is what you're saying, but Ameda has a point: if relativity is true, then God made it, so we can't dismiss it. If it isn't true, and if it does lead people away from the Bible, then we shouldn't be talking about it - but we first need to decide whether relativity is true.

:::::::And could I please see those statistics? I believe relativity, and I read the Bible. I think you're mistaking a correlation for causation: we already know colleges try to move students away from the Bible, and they're where most people happen to learn relativity. So, even though relativity has nothing to do with it, it's quite possible that people who study relativity are less likely to read the Bible because they've happened to spend years at liberal schools. (Incidentally, that's a good reason to teach relativity here at Conservapedia!) --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 23:24, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::: Andy, you are trying to trap me into some black/white answer here. I believe that relativity is true and therefore when taught in all aspects will not lead people away from God. You might as well ask me the same thing concerning the Sun. Can it lead people away, sure, '''when''' it is couched in naturalistic philosophy. You are making some wild hypothetical based on nothing but your own encounters with vandals on this site, that is not empirical. I can easily make the same hypothetical concerning Conservapedia itself. I view this site as preaching the word of God but that doesn't mean that just because someone thinks less of Christianity after reading it then that means it is a problem with the site, it could be with the person not wanting to hear the truth.

::::::::PS- People misunderstood me, I wasn't saying Andy was arguing that, it simply reads like it as a consequence of what he is saying considering that relativity is correct and was designed by God. My opinion of course.[[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:29, 15 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent) Don't let me jump into the middle of y'all's philosophical debate or anything, but there's a point on the table that needs resolving. Andy, your essay (yes, I know, still a work in progress) contains falsehoods. Are you at all interested in correcting them? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:31, 15 November 2009 (EST)

User talk:EvanW

2009-11-16T04:33:43Z

Ameda:

== Cat Cora ==
It's correct now because you changed it from her doing badly because she is gay to her marrying her partner. Plus, I don't think this person warrants inclusion. Trust me, Alphak is a vandal. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:08, 15 November 2009 (EST)
:Agreed; he probably is. But, I prefer keeping real information [[ad hominem|even if vandals add it]]. Notability is another matter, though - I know Wikipedia's policy, but does Conservapedia have one? It doesn't seem to be in the Commandments or Guidelines.--[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 23:15, 15 November 2009 (EST)
::Understand that I reverted the first edit which is exactly the type of vandalism we get here. While I am not the most knowledgeable on this site yet on the yeas or neas I have seen celebrity articles deleted, even A-listers. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:33, 15 November 2009 (EST)

Talk:Essay:Quantifying Order

2009-11-16T04:30:08Z

Ameda: Ill get this formatting down one day :)

"Subsequently, however, more accurate measurements with more sophisticated technology have determined this precession to be 55 arc-seconds per century, nearly 30% off the number provided by relativity."

Please provide a citation in the article for this. I'm shocked that I somehow missed the news. Thanks much. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 17:48, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:I'm urging you to look beyond what you're taught. I went through the same physics curriculum as others, and it is what isn't taught that matters. Earnestly.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:53, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::Okay. Let's find a way of making that point without quoting an incorrect value for the Mercury anomaly then? Cause putting in a number that's not actually supported by observations just to make a philosophical point seems kind of … I dunno. Deceptive? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 17:58, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, if I can call you that, I have no reason to lie about this. I'm not applying for any grants. I'm not trying to get a PhD from liberal professors. I'm not worried about what my colleagues might say. Like the Bible, I'm just telling the truth, and trying to learn more of it.

:::The physics journals all seem to require payment for access. But type this into a Google search: 5599.7 Mercury. You'll then see what the liberal physics professors won't tell you, as Google returns fragments from limited-access journals. Then, please, pause for a moment and ask yourself: why didn't they tell you this so you could decide for yourself, rather than being told what to think?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:40, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::::Oh, okay. I see where you made an honest mistake.

::::There are two numbers at play here: there's the ''observed'' precession of Mercury's orbit, and then there's the ''anomaly.'' The anomaly is the amount by which the observed precession differs from the mathematically predicted precession. What you did was quote a figure for the ''anomaly'' using the figure for the ''observed'' precession. Hang on, lemme splain.

::::The precession of an orbit is the sum of several effects. Newton's approximation for gravity predicted three different effects: axial precession of 5,025 arc seconds per century, 530 additional arc seconds per century from the gravitational effects of the other planets, and a tiny amount, less than one arc second per century, due to the fact that the sun isn't a perfect sphere. (Those numbers are all rounded off; the precise figures are trivially googlable.)

::::If you add up the precession predicted by Newton's approximation, you get exactly 5,557.02 arc seconds per century.

::::But if you run the numbers using the Einstein equations instead of the Newton equations — using the same constants for things like the mass and shape of the sun — you get a precession of exactly 5,600±0.04 arc seconds per century. It's really weird that it would be a round number like that, but that's how the math works out.

::::The observed precession of Mercury's orbit? It's 5,599.7 arc seconds per century. Which is where you got your number from. And that means the general relativity prediction was accurate to within (deep breath) one half of one one hundredth of one percent.

::::That's like shooting an arrow from Los Angeles and hitting the bullseye in Melbourne.

::::Would you be a dear and remove the incorrect anomaly figure from your essay now? I know it's a work in progress and I hate nitpickers, but somebody could stumble across that and be misinformed.--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 19:11, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Your point is an excellent one. Thank you. The 30% figure was wrong for the reasons you provide.

:::::But the underlying point in this entry remains correct: due to advances in precision in measurement, the prediction of relativity no longer matches the data on the precession. The discrepancy is much greater than the margin of error, which is all that matters from a logical perspective. The entry has been updated accordingly, and I welcome further comments you may have.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:44, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(Unindent) I'm not sure you're going to welcome these comments, sir. Because you're just flat-out, provably, unequivocally wrong on this one. The observed value of the precession of Mercury hasn't been changed in a hundred years, because it's a direct observation. We measured it with telescopes, and those were just fine at that scale a century ago.

I'm afraid your edit made the offending section paragraph ''even more misleading than it was.'' Predicted value of the precession (via Newton) in 1915: 5,557. Observed value in 1915? 5,600. Difference? 43. Predicted value from the Einstein equations? 5,600. Observed value today? Still 5,600. Difference? Ridiculously small. I ''know'' you're actively working on this essay, and I feel ''really'' bad about beating you up over this, but you wouldn't have the paragraph in there unless you thought it had value.

Just so you know, I've got some feedback on your paragraph on quantum mechanics as well. For starters, the position and momentum of a particle is exactly as uncertain after an observation as it is before, because reducing uncertainty of the position increases uncertainty of the momentum and vice versa. They're intrinsically linked. Maybe that's not your point; measuring a particle does, I suppose, bring about a sort of philosophical order that was previously absent — we know where the particle is now — but at the cost of reducing our knowledge about another aspect of the particle's motion. But your essay isn't fleshed out enough for me to really see yet what you're getting at, so that might be irrelevant to your point. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 20:00, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:Kate, I don't have an ax to grind about this. General Relativity was developed to explain the Mercury precession, so the theory certainly should fit the data. I expected that it would. But the fit isn't there anymore, due to more precise measurements. It's beyond the margin of error, and logically that's all that matters. You're using rounding above that obscures what the margin of error is. Professor Will does not even include this test in his recent summary of all the evidence for GR, and we can now see why. Those are the facts, and logic applied to the facts. Anyone has free will to accept or deny it. I accept the facts and logic as they require.

:You make an interesting point about position, but I don't think the essay is incorrect because it says nothing about momentum. Observation can pin down the position, which is relevant to establishing order. But without observation there is disorder. That is the basic point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:11, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::Right, but there's an error of fact buried in there. It's a totally innocent one, I'm sure; I'm not accusing you of axe-grinding. It's just that the precession of the perihelion of Mercury ''has not changed'' since 1916 when the theory was published. It's not that we measured it with telescopes before 1916 and got a rough estimate, and now we measure it with better telescopes and have a much more precise figure. We measured it before 1916 and got a very accurate figure because measuring the motion of Mercury just isn't that hard, and the measurements we make today with better telescopes say only that yup, the older measurements were pretty much spot on.

::What we ''have'' done since then is to much more precisely measure the oblateness of the sun. There was a big controversy about that back in the … hmm … 80s I think it was? Goldberg and Dicke claimed that the sun was much "fatter" than previously thought, which ''would have'' made the predictions from general relativity different from the observed precession. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? For a while there was a lot of disagreement about what shape the sun actually is, but that's been pretty much put to bed with both more accurate ground-based observations in the 90s and helioseismography.

::Anyway, saying that the prediction matched the observation in 1916 and doesn't today is simply flat-out false. If your argument depends on it, then you're hurting your argument with this point. If it doesn't, then what's the harm in fixing it?

::Thanks for clarifying your point about quantum mechanics. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 20:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, as I said, I don't care either way, but I am going to tell the truth. GR fit the observed data in 1916 (indeed, GR was developed to fit it), but now (due to more sophisticated measurements) the GR prediction is wrong ''by more than the margin of error''. None of your comments above address the margin of error, which must be the scientific focus. A difference between theory and observation is not "ridiculously small" if it is more than the margin of error, as in this case.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:47, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::: Perhaps this is what Mr. Schlafly is referring to. The article states that 5599.7 arc-seconds is the observed value. KSorenson is quoting a value of 5,600 (±0.04). 5600-.04=5599.96. From just those values then yes the relativity value is higher by .26 arc-seconds even factoring in the error. The only thing I ask is what is the error range for the observed value? [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 21:08, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Presumably the error range for the observed value is no more than .1. Again, note that Professor Will conspicuously omits this famous claim of evidence for GR from his recent comprehensive summary of the evidence for GR, as cited in this entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:12, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent again because I'm lazy with bullets) We can do a heck of a lot better than "presumably," Andy, and as a person who cares deeply about facts and logic, you darned well know that. I happen to have the Pijpers paper from 94 here; I dug it out when I thought you might have been thinking of helioseismography. In it he cites radar ranging studies from 1976 to 1992. Here's the data, ''with margins of error.'' Note that these numbers are for ''the anomaly,'' and not the precession total, and remember that the figure from the Einstein equation is 42.98 ± 0.04, okay?

*43.11 ± 0.21 (Shapiro 76)
*42.92 ± 0.20 (Anderson 87)
*42.94 ± 0.20 (Anderson 91)
*43.13 ± 0.14 (Anderson 92)

So the Einstein prediction is within the margin of error of those four radar-ranging measurements of the Mercury anomaly. I'm sure there've been more recent studies, but I don't have them literally sitting in front of my face at the moment, so those are the ones I'm citing. Can I see your numbers that say the Einstein prediction is outside the margin? More recent data than what I have in my hand here maybe? (This Pijpers paper is [http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/9804258v1 on ARXIV], by the way, if you want to check it out.)--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 21:17, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Oh, and just incidentally? Will didn't leave Mercury out of his paper; he just talked about it in really jargony physics-paper language.

:Three decades of experiments, ranging from the standard light-deﬂection and perihelion-shift tests to lunar laser ranging, planetary and satellite tracking, and geophysical and astronomical observations, have placed bounds on the PPN parameters consistent with general relativity.

"PPN" is the ''parameterized post''-''Newton'' formalism, a rewriting of the law of universal gravitation to include coefficients derived from general relativity. The Einstein field equations are nightmarish to solve, so PPN was created as a middle-ground approximation between the (good but not good enough in some contexts) Newton approximation and the agonizing pain of having to actually ''solve'' the Einstein field equations every time you want to calculate the delta-vee required during a solar slingshot maneuver for a planetary probe. What Will said in that paper is the PPN approximation has been tested ''against general relativity'' and supported by 30 years of experiments.

This is really getting into the tall grass, and I know how you hate wasting time. Maybe we can bring this conversation to a conclusion? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 21:38, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:Kate, I have an open mind about this but, quite honestly, the relativists protest too much. Why do you care so much about defending relativity? Not to pick on you, however, because many trained in math and physics likewise defend relativity like they are defending their own reputation. It's bizarre. Regardless of the reason, protesting too much is not scientific.

:Answering the substance of your post, your most recent data is from 1992 (17 years ago, with the data probably older than that), and its margin of error confirms what I said: it's approaching 0.1. Combine that 0.1 (or 0.14 if you like) with the most recent data and it's clear that GR no longer fits the data. Of course, no one is going to dare publish a paper claiming GR is disproved by the data, and even if they tried, no journal would accept it. So the trail goes cold at this point, just as the data diverge from the GR predictions and the margin of error declines to where it can't save GR.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::"Why do you care so much about defending relativity?" 'Cause teaching physics is something I do for a living. 'Cause I think it's really neat. 'Cause seeing somebody totally misunderstand it, and then go on to draw incorrect conclusions based on his misunderstanding of it, and finally to pass those incorrect conclusions on to impressionable kids who trust him … well, that just breaks my heart. You can call it protesting too much if you want, Andy. But I wish you could understand that it's really just me trying to help.

::I wouldn't have fought you on this at all if you'd said something like "A dozen eggs contains fifteen eggs, plus or minus two." That's just ''obviously'' wrong, and nobody who reads it would fall for it. But you're hiding your false conclusion behind a wall of data that you know most people won't bother looking up for themselves, and that's just dishonest. That's unworthy of anybody who'd call himself a teacher, and what's more I think you know that in your heart. You seem like a conscientious guy; what does your conscience say to you about this?

::Anyway, it's your essay, you can obviously write what you want. But let me just give you a heads up: Next week, when I put your [[theory of relativity]] page on the table for major surgery? I don't think you're gonna like it. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:24, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, you didn't address the substance of my comment about the evidence, but don't worry about it. The bottom line is clear: no physics major, no physics grad student, and no physics teacher should dare criticize relativity, no matter what the data say. The political grip on this issue is intense. In fact, to be honest, I would advise against your criticizing it in any way. It could harm your (or any other teacher's or physicist's) career. There are examples of people who were denied tenure simply because they criticized evolution, and the politics here is just as strong.

:::I look forward to learning from your entry on the theory of relativity. The math is fascinating regardless of its manifestation in reality.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:33, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent) "Kate, you didn't address the substance of my comment about the evidence, but don't worry about it." What was there to address? You made an arithmetic error. Do you want me to send you the Mathematica scatterplot I made just to triple-check that I was interpreting the data correctly? It's pretty. The error bars are blue.

Andy, I wish I could get you to come to my department for a week. Just one week, any week. Our students, grad students, associates, profs, chair, heck, even the ''janitor'' criticizes relativity every day. I could get you a meeting with one of our theoretical cosmologist; he's been pulling his ''hair'' out for years trying to make some progress on the vacuum energy problem. For a while there he was coming into my office a couple times a week and saying … well, unprintable things about partial differential equations. Even we theoretical physicists think general relativity is a mathematical mess.

But we respect it anyway. Because it ''works,'' at least as far as anybody's been able to measure.

Can I ask you a question? What's your beef with relativity? I mean, I know you question the data, but … why? Are you just being iconoclastic? I don't mean that in a dismissive way; I totally understand and respect the impulse to say "Everybody agrees that this is true, so I'm going to question it!" I'd really just like to understand your point of view on this, whatever it may be. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:44, 14 November 2009 (EST)

: GR's predictions are off by more than the margin of error, as we discussed in detail above; it and special relativity have absurd discontinuities; there are logical flaws, as in relativistic mass; it conflicts with QM; and it predicts gravitons that have never been found despite wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on it. Relativity pulls people away from reading the Bible and relativity is pushed big-time by liberals. It chills progress by intimidating people against criticizing it. Other than that, the theory is pretty good!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:05, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::Wow, Mr. Schlafly must really like this conversation, he actually made a joke. ;) jk [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 00:15, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::Thanks very much for taking the time to reply; I understand better now. Of course, some of that is unmitigated garbage, and we'll have plenty of chances to deal with it when I fix your [[theory of relativity]] article next week, so I'll skip some points for now.

:::*''You'' discussed the fact that the predictions are outside the margin of error; ''I'' pointed out to you repeatedly that you were mistaken. I even offered to show you a plot. So come on.

:::*To be frank, relativity doesn't ''conflict'' with quantum mechanics; the two theories don't overlap in any domains we can presently observe. But that's the problem. They don't overlap, so we don't know how we're going to understand systems where both gravity and quantum mechanics have non-negligible effects. It's entirely possible that every such region of spacetime is sequestered behind an event horizon; that's jokingly called the "convenient cosmic censorship hypothesis" by one of my colleagues.

:::*General relativity doesn't predict gravitons at all. General relativity doesn't say anything about particles; the Standard Model predicts the existence of particles (like the Higgs). Gravitons are part of the various attempts to reformulate general relativity as a vector gauge theory, none of which have gotten there yet. And, uh, since none of the gauge theories have gotten there yet, Andy, ''not one dollar'' has been spent looking for gravitons. Because we don't know where to look. But we ''do'' know that if they could be detected by existing particle accelerators, they would've been. So if and when physicists decide to look for them, it's going to have to start with building an accelerator the size of our galaxy<ref>WARNING: exaggeration for humorous effect, do not take literally.</ref>, and you'll have your chance to lobby the appropriations committee then.

:::*Yes, studying relativity does take people away from time they could spend in religious activities. So does reading this site. Just give me a chance to copy-and-paste my contributions out before you shut it down to remove the temptation.

:::Anyway, like I said, we'll have plenty of time to have these arguments when I start work on [[theory of relativity]]. All I ask is that you ''engage in constructive collaboration'' with me and whomever else chooses to help out, rather than pouncing on the "undo" button like you did when I rewrote [[black hole]]. We've both demonstrated that we're reasonable adults, I think; we can work together. Deal? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 00:22, 15 November 2009 (EST)

{{reflist}}

::::I've been quietly following this conversation today, but Kate beat me to the "Submit" button! Well, I'll just point out that scientists can and frequently do "intimidat[e] people against criticizing" pretty much any theory, because they think it's right and they don't want to waste time. It's quite likely close-mindedness, but it exists, and you can't take that as disproof of the theory. I don't think someone who rejected Mendel or Maxwell would get pretty far today, either. (Yes, I know Mendel has been amended with epigenetic inheritance, but I think you get my picture). It's just a bothersome red herring.

::::I don't know anything about the Mercury data, but the most recent data I've seen here says general relativity might work; it's at the border of the range of error, and it's too precise for any of us to extrapolate. General relativity could be spot on. Or, a new theory being needed - if you're trying to construct a [[theory of everything]], a new theory definitely is needed to deal with [[quantum mechanics]]! But, general relativity does predict a lot of things better than Newton. Newton didn't explain everything, nor does general relativity - but I think you can find better stuff to attack it with than an extrapolation of Mercury orbital data. --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 00:37, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Ugh, I really should be sleeping, but this is just such an engaging conversation I can't seem to break away.

:::::If you make a measurement to test a theory and the measurement doesn't match the prediction, there are three possibilities. Either the measurement is wrong ("That's not Mercury, that's Saturn!") or the theory is wrong ("Turns out gravity ''isn't'' really caused by leprechauns!") or both are fundamentally right but you failed to take something into account ("We really shouldn't have assumed the sun is a sphere.")

:::::The thing about the Mercury anomaly is that the observed and predicted numbers are ''insanely'' close together. So close as to be declared equal within the margin of error. So either general relativity is ''absolutely'' right and we accounted for ''everything'' — no physicist believes this, by the way — or general relativity is at least ''incredibly close'' to being right, so close that the factors we failed to account for are negligible at the scale of the Mercury anomaly.

:::::But the thing is, Mercury is really thin sauce, as gravity goes. The fields are weak, and the prediction we're testing doesn't say anything terribly interesting about the theory. If you want to get a real feel for how general relativity holds up as a ''physical'' theory, and not just a mathematical one, you really need to look at the Gravity Probe B data. (Conflict of interest alert: I worked on that project.) That experiment didn't measure gravitation indirectly by observing the motion of a particle; it measured it ''directly'' by parallel transporting a vector in a closed loop around a region of curvature. We ''empirically'' measured the curvature of spacetime around a gravitating object (the Earth) and found it to be non-zero. Spacetime is ''not'' flat, massive bodies ''do'' curve spacetime, and the fundamental ''idea'' of general relativity reflects nature.

:::::General relativity doesn't just say that a falling body moves like such-n-such. It tells us ''why.'' And to see it dismissed out of hand because Andy doesn't care for the size of the error bars on the results of a radar study? That, I confess, rubs me the wrong way. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 00:51, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::Great point about experimental error. Before I ''really do'' sign off for the night, Kate, I'd like to give you an article suggestion: [[Gravity_Probe_B]]. I'm enthusiastically looking forward to hearing how it was done! --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 01:00, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::Oh, I'm not the girl to write that one. It'd be 200 pages long and full of equations and whole paragraphs of me going "You guys this is so ''awesome!"'' --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 01:09, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::On the contrary. You are exactly the right girl to write this. But not yet. Do GR first, OK? And you'll have to take off your instructor hat, and put on your explainer-for-lay-people hat, so that it won't be 200 pages long. Whenever you reach the point where you think "You guys this is so ''awesome''", don't go into "and so I have to write the awesome equations". Go into "how can I convey the awesomeness to my reader?". [[User:PatrickD|PatrickD]] 11:32, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::I don't want to perpetuate this debate, but I don't want a lack of response to be misinterpreted. Relativity has quasi-religious status for many; they'll defend regardless of what the evidence is, regardless of its absurd inconsistencies, and regardless of its far-fetched assumptions and non-falsifiability. I don't mind relativity, and look forward to reviewing the updated entry. But open-mindedness is not a trait of many relativists, who will demonize anyone who points out its fairly obvious flaws.

:::::::One way to evaluate religions, or quasi-religions, is to look at the fruit it bears. What has it helped achieved? In the case of relativity, it has produced nothing. Nil. Zippo. After nearly 100 years and a ton of money. If you find the math in relativity fun, great, but relativity is not going to help anyone. It never has. Pick up a Bible in between some equations.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:31, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::::''"Relativity has quasi-religious status for many…regardless of its far-fetched assumptions and non-falsifiability."'' As has already been shown repeatedly by those knowledgeable and qualified in the subject such as KSorenson the theory of general relativity is eminently falsifiable. For instance the two gravity probes (GP-A and GP-B) were launched specifically to measure rate change of a clock in lower gravity and space-time curvature near the Earth respectively, both experiments specifically testing the theory of relativity. As both experiments were to test the theory of relativity this means that the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be considered falsifiable. This is as patently obvious as stating that 2+2=4. If the theory of relativity is not falsifiable then no experiment can exist to test it. The existence of Gravity Probes A & B automatically that the previous statement cannot be true. So, the undeniable existence of Gravity Probes A & B now proving the falsifiability of the theory of general relativity this means that by Karl Popper's rigorous standard the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be a science. This is immediately obvious to anyone who has made an in depth study of Popper's work, the kind of study that all students of the pure sciences undergo, although strangely enough those students of those subjects which use an applied form of science never seem to be taught such things to the levels required. Presumably this is because the standard of science they are taught is considerably less rigorous or in-depth than the standards expected of and required of students of the pure sciences.

::::::::As the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be considered a science then this in turn means the first part of your statement: ''"Relativity has a quasi-religious status"'' is itself false. Science is not religion. Religion requires hope, hope that what one believes is true. Science requires absolute cynicism, it requires one to say "this is my idea, help me prove it wrong". To this date tests on the theory of general relativity has failed to show that it is wrong, and where measurements have been made to confirm or deny the accuracy of the general theory of relativity such results have shown that the predictions made by the theory of relativity are accurate to the observed effects well within the scientifically determined margins of error.

::::::::The statement that ''"relativity is not going to help anyone"'' is, of course, as wrong as you can get. The theory of relativity opened up a massive area of study, and there are no known limits to what may be achieved through such studies. It is not hyperbole to state that the creation of the theory of relativity is as important, if not more important, than the discovery of the safe generation and transference of electricity. This is known and accepted by everybody who has an in depth knowledge of the subject, knowledge gained through years of learning and self-teaching that begins after one leaves university, after one has gained the bedrock of knowledge required to begin teaching oneself the true depths of a subject.

::::::::I beg of you this one thing. Open up your Bible and truly study the price one pays for Arrogance and Pride. Learn the lesson that the true Student and Teacher must come to the subjects they study in a state of Humility. Of all the posts on the subject of general relativity each and every person that has made an in depth study of the subject have stated that the views you hold on general relativity are wrong. The only person who states that your views are correct are yourself. Look inside yourself and ask if your stubborn resistance to accept what others learned in the subject have to say on this matter is arrogance, pride or humility.(by DanHutchin)

:::::::::Dan, I accept your challenge. I'll work on translating the Bible tonight and tomorrow with "a state of Humility." Thank you for suggesting it. In the meantime, could you specify how the theory of relativity has helped anyone? Electricity powers hospitals that save lives, and increase productivity and wealth which help the poor throughout the world. You say relativity "is as important, if not more important." Specific examples, please?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:52, 15 November 2009 (EST)

: Sorry for butting in here but I love science, I am a science major currently. In my mind God gave us the scientific method and the tools to explore his creation for his glory. We can debate the merits of relativity all day but the fact remains that if it is true it is part of God's creation and because of that, automatically gives it value. Plus, pure science in a lot of cases leads to applied science. I don't like arguments based on what we don't know. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 22:00, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:: Ameda, that's fine, but surely you'd agree that unproductive theories or beliefs should not squeeze out productive ones. Someone can use rhetoric to defend any belief or activity, from watching television to drinking beer. One can spend hours explaining to an addict why he should, for example, stop smoking. All the explaining in the world is not as powerful as this: ''nothing good comes of it''. Relativity has had nearly 100 years to help somebody, anybody. How many more centuries should we give it priority over alternative, productive work?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:14, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::GPS, fiber optics, solar panels and PET scans don't count?

:::I'm amusingly reminded of what Benjamin Franklin said when asked what good was the then-freshly-invented hot-air balloon. "What good is a newborn baby?" That was 1783; powered flight didn't happen until 1903. If you don't see ''enough'' benefits from relativity yet, I'd say you need to embrace patience. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 22:20, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::: And by "squeeze out" I assume you mean in funding? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, I think it is worth it because it is an integral part of God's creation. Plus, I don't think that just because relativity is given grant money that necessarily means that it is taking it from money that would have gone to say genetically engineering bigger crops. There isn't a one-one correspondence.

::::I agree with a lot on here but honestly Andy, with all respect, I think DanHutchin is right. We all suffer from pride and from all I have read on here, from your brother Roger to Kate above, you are suffering from it big time on this issue. Think, is it really a coincidence that the first part of the Conservative Bible Project I translated was talking about humbling oneself and I did it just this very night? Sorry for the long response but know that it comes from the heart. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 22:29, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::: Amen, Ameda. I appreciate your advice for me to read the Bible more, and with a humbler heart. I'd also like your advice about this. If empirically the promotion of relativity leads people ''away'' from the Bible, would you still support the promotion of relativity? A direct answer from your heart, please.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:43, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::: From the heart, and '''hopefully''' my understanding of the Word, anything can lead people away from the Lord, even if "based" on the Word of God. What I mean by that is people can use and abuse anything, even the Bible to support xyz. ''You know how many times I see Peter Popoff ripping off my brothers and sisters in Christ for some "Miracle spring water"?''

::::::If relativity is part of the fabric of the universe, and I do think that, then it was created by God just as much as the Bible, the stars, etc. and as I said can be used and abused. The only way science can lead one away from the Lord is if there isn't the secondary component to it, the spiritual one, the one stating that this was created by a being that created you and loves you. That is the only thing that needs to be addressed not relativity itself. Basically it seems like you are arguing that God's creation can lead people away from him? I don't think that is scriptural nor correct. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:04, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::No, that's not what I'm saying, and I humbly requested a ''direct'' answer. People who are taught and then believe relativity are less likely to read the Bible again, or as frequently. If true (as we've seen on this site and in colleges), do you still support the promotion of relativity?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:18, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::I don't think that is what you're saying, but Ameda has a point: if relativity is true, then God made it, so we can't dismiss it. If it isn't true, and if it does lead people away from the Bible, then we shouldn't be talking about it - but we first need to decide whether relativity is true.

:::::::And could I please see those statistics? I believe relativity, and I read the Bible. I think you're mistaking a correlation for causation: we already know colleges try to move students away from the Bible, and they're where most people happen to learn relativity. So, even though relativity has nothing to do with it, it's quite possible that people who study relativity are less likely to read the Bible because they've happened to spend years at liberal schools. (Incidentally, that's a good reason to teach relativity here at Conservapedia!) --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 23:24, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::: Andy, you are trying to trap me into some black/white answer here. I believe that relativity is true and therefore when taught in all aspects will not lead people away from God. You might as well ask me the same thing concerning the Sun. Can it lead people away, sure, '''when''' it is couched in naturalistic philosophy. You are making some wild hypothetical based on nothing but your own encounters with vandals on this site, that is not empirical. I can easily make the same hypothetical concerning Conservapedia itself. I view this site as preaching the word of God but that doesn't mean that just because someone thinks less of Christianity after reading it then that means it is a problem with the site, it could be with the person not wanting to hear the truth.

::::::::PS- People misunderstood me, I wasn't saying Andy was arguing that it simply reads like it as a consequence of what he is saying considering that relativity is correct and was designed by God. My opinion of course.[[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:29, 15 November 2009 (EST)

Talk:Essay:Quantifying Order

2009-11-16T04:29:34Z

Ameda:

"Subsequently, however, more accurate measurements with more sophisticated technology have determined this precession to be 55 arc-seconds per century, nearly 30% off the number provided by relativity."

Please provide a citation in the article for this. I'm shocked that I somehow missed the news. Thanks much. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 17:48, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:I'm urging you to look beyond what you're taught. I went through the same physics curriculum as others, and it is what isn't taught that matters. Earnestly.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:53, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::Okay. Let's find a way of making that point without quoting an incorrect value for the Mercury anomaly then? Cause putting in a number that's not actually supported by observations just to make a philosophical point seems kind of … I dunno. Deceptive? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 17:58, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, if I can call you that, I have no reason to lie about this. I'm not applying for any grants. I'm not trying to get a PhD from liberal professors. I'm not worried about what my colleagues might say. Like the Bible, I'm just telling the truth, and trying to learn more of it.

:::The physics journals all seem to require payment for access. But type this into a Google search: 5599.7 Mercury. You'll then see what the liberal physics professors won't tell you, as Google returns fragments from limited-access journals. Then, please, pause for a moment and ask yourself: why didn't they tell you this so you could decide for yourself, rather than being told what to think?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:40, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::::Oh, okay. I see where you made an honest mistake.

::::There are two numbers at play here: there's the ''observed'' precession of Mercury's orbit, and then there's the ''anomaly.'' The anomaly is the amount by which the observed precession differs from the mathematically predicted precession. What you did was quote a figure for the ''anomaly'' using the figure for the ''observed'' precession. Hang on, lemme splain.

::::The precession of an orbit is the sum of several effects. Newton's approximation for gravity predicted three different effects: axial precession of 5,025 arc seconds per century, 530 additional arc seconds per century from the gravitational effects of the other planets, and a tiny amount, less than one arc second per century, due to the fact that the sun isn't a perfect sphere. (Those numbers are all rounded off; the precise figures are trivially googlable.)

::::If you add up the precession predicted by Newton's approximation, you get exactly 5,557.02 arc seconds per century.

::::But if you run the numbers using the Einstein equations instead of the Newton equations — using the same constants for things like the mass and shape of the sun — you get a precession of exactly 5,600±0.04 arc seconds per century. It's really weird that it would be a round number like that, but that's how the math works out.

::::The observed precession of Mercury's orbit? It's 5,599.7 arc seconds per century. Which is where you got your number from. And that means the general relativity prediction was accurate to within (deep breath) one half of one one hundredth of one percent.

::::That's like shooting an arrow from Los Angeles and hitting the bullseye in Melbourne.

::::Would you be a dear and remove the incorrect anomaly figure from your essay now? I know it's a work in progress and I hate nitpickers, but somebody could stumble across that and be misinformed.--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 19:11, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Your point is an excellent one. Thank you. The 30% figure was wrong for the reasons you provide.

:::::But the underlying point in this entry remains correct: due to advances in precision in measurement, the prediction of relativity no longer matches the data on the precession. The discrepancy is much greater than the margin of error, which is all that matters from a logical perspective. The entry has been updated accordingly, and I welcome further comments you may have.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:44, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(Unindent) I'm not sure you're going to welcome these comments, sir. Because you're just flat-out, provably, unequivocally wrong on this one. The observed value of the precession of Mercury hasn't been changed in a hundred years, because it's a direct observation. We measured it with telescopes, and those were just fine at that scale a century ago.

I'm afraid your edit made the offending section paragraph ''even more misleading than it was.'' Predicted value of the precession (via Newton) in 1915: 5,557. Observed value in 1915? 5,600. Difference? 43. Predicted value from the Einstein equations? 5,600. Observed value today? Still 5,600. Difference? Ridiculously small. I ''know'' you're actively working on this essay, and I feel ''really'' bad about beating you up over this, but you wouldn't have the paragraph in there unless you thought it had value.

Just so you know, I've got some feedback on your paragraph on quantum mechanics as well. For starters, the position and momentum of a particle is exactly as uncertain after an observation as it is before, because reducing uncertainty of the position increases uncertainty of the momentum and vice versa. They're intrinsically linked. Maybe that's not your point; measuring a particle does, I suppose, bring about a sort of philosophical order that was previously absent — we know where the particle is now — but at the cost of reducing our knowledge about another aspect of the particle's motion. But your essay isn't fleshed out enough for me to really see yet what you're getting at, so that might be irrelevant to your point. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 20:00, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:Kate, I don't have an ax to grind about this. General Relativity was developed to explain the Mercury precession, so the theory certainly should fit the data. I expected that it would. But the fit isn't there anymore, due to more precise measurements. It's beyond the margin of error, and logically that's all that matters. You're using rounding above that obscures what the margin of error is. Professor Will does not even include this test in his recent summary of all the evidence for GR, and we can now see why. Those are the facts, and logic applied to the facts. Anyone has free will to accept or deny it. I accept the facts and logic as they require.

:You make an interesting point about position, but I don't think the essay is incorrect because it says nothing about momentum. Observation can pin down the position, which is relevant to establishing order. But without observation there is disorder. That is the basic point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:11, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::Right, but there's an error of fact buried in there. It's a totally innocent one, I'm sure; I'm not accusing you of axe-grinding. It's just that the precession of the perihelion of Mercury ''has not changed'' since 1916 when the theory was published. It's not that we measured it with telescopes before 1916 and got a rough estimate, and now we measure it with better telescopes and have a much more precise figure. We measured it before 1916 and got a very accurate figure because measuring the motion of Mercury just isn't that hard, and the measurements we make today with better telescopes say only that yup, the older measurements were pretty much spot on.

::What we ''have'' done since then is to much more precisely measure the oblateness of the sun. There was a big controversy about that back in the … hmm … 80s I think it was? Goldberg and Dicke claimed that the sun was much "fatter" than previously thought, which ''would have'' made the predictions from general relativity different from the observed precession. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? For a while there was a lot of disagreement about what shape the sun actually is, but that's been pretty much put to bed with both more accurate ground-based observations in the 90s and helioseismography.

::Anyway, saying that the prediction matched the observation in 1916 and doesn't today is simply flat-out false. If your argument depends on it, then you're hurting your argument with this point. If it doesn't, then what's the harm in fixing it?

::Thanks for clarifying your point about quantum mechanics. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 20:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, as I said, I don't care either way, but I am going to tell the truth. GR fit the observed data in 1916 (indeed, GR was developed to fit it), but now (due to more sophisticated measurements) the GR prediction is wrong ''by more than the margin of error''. None of your comments above address the margin of error, which must be the scientific focus. A difference between theory and observation is not "ridiculously small" if it is more than the margin of error, as in this case.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:47, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::: Perhaps this is what Mr. Schlafly is referring to. The article states that 5599.7 arc-seconds is the observed value. KSorenson is quoting a value of 5,600 (±0.04). 5600-.04=5599.96. From just those values then yes the relativity value is higher by .26 arc-seconds even factoring in the error. The only thing I ask is what is the error range for the observed value? [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 21:08, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Presumably the error range for the observed value is no more than .1. Again, note that Professor Will conspicuously omits this famous claim of evidence for GR from his recent comprehensive summary of the evidence for GR, as cited in this entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:12, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent again because I'm lazy with bullets) We can do a heck of a lot better than "presumably," Andy, and as a person who cares deeply about facts and logic, you darned well know that. I happen to have the Pijpers paper from 94 here; I dug it out when I thought you might have been thinking of helioseismography. In it he cites radar ranging studies from 1976 to 1992. Here's the data, ''with margins of error.'' Note that these numbers are for ''the anomaly,'' and not the precession total, and remember that the figure from the Einstein equation is 42.98 ± 0.04, okay?

*43.11 ± 0.21 (Shapiro 76)
*42.92 ± 0.20 (Anderson 87)
*42.94 ± 0.20 (Anderson 91)
*43.13 ± 0.14 (Anderson 92)

So the Einstein prediction is within the margin of error of those four radar-ranging measurements of the Mercury anomaly. I'm sure there've been more recent studies, but I don't have them literally sitting in front of my face at the moment, so those are the ones I'm citing. Can I see your numbers that say the Einstein prediction is outside the margin? More recent data than what I have in my hand here maybe? (This Pijpers paper is [http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/9804258v1 on ARXIV], by the way, if you want to check it out.)--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 21:17, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Oh, and just incidentally? Will didn't leave Mercury out of his paper; he just talked about it in really jargony physics-paper language.

:Three decades of experiments, ranging from the standard light-deﬂection and perihelion-shift tests to lunar laser ranging, planetary and satellite tracking, and geophysical and astronomical observations, have placed bounds on the PPN parameters consistent with general relativity.

"PPN" is the ''parameterized post''-''Newton'' formalism, a rewriting of the law of universal gravitation to include coefficients derived from general relativity. The Einstein field equations are nightmarish to solve, so PPN was created as a middle-ground approximation between the (good but not good enough in some contexts) Newton approximation and the agonizing pain of having to actually ''solve'' the Einstein field equations every time you want to calculate the delta-vee required during a solar slingshot maneuver for a planetary probe. What Will said in that paper is the PPN approximation has been tested ''against general relativity'' and supported by 30 years of experiments.

This is really getting into the tall grass, and I know how you hate wasting time. Maybe we can bring this conversation to a conclusion? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 21:38, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:Kate, I have an open mind about this but, quite honestly, the relativists protest too much. Why do you care so much about defending relativity? Not to pick on you, however, because many trained in math and physics likewise defend relativity like they are defending their own reputation. It's bizarre. Regardless of the reason, protesting too much is not scientific.

:Answering the substance of your post, your most recent data is from 1992 (17 years ago, with the data probably older than that), and its margin of error confirms what I said: it's approaching 0.1. Combine that 0.1 (or 0.14 if you like) with the most recent data and it's clear that GR no longer fits the data. Of course, no one is going to dare publish a paper claiming GR is disproved by the data, and even if they tried, no journal would accept it. So the trail goes cold at this point, just as the data diverge from the GR predictions and the margin of error declines to where it can't save GR.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::"Why do you care so much about defending relativity?" 'Cause teaching physics is something I do for a living. 'Cause I think it's really neat. 'Cause seeing somebody totally misunderstand it, and then go on to draw incorrect conclusions based on his misunderstanding of it, and finally to pass those incorrect conclusions on to impressionable kids who trust him … well, that just breaks my heart. You can call it protesting too much if you want, Andy. But I wish you could understand that it's really just me trying to help.

::I wouldn't have fought you on this at all if you'd said something like "A dozen eggs contains fifteen eggs, plus or minus two." That's just ''obviously'' wrong, and nobody who reads it would fall for it. But you're hiding your false conclusion behind a wall of data that you know most people won't bother looking up for themselves, and that's just dishonest. That's unworthy of anybody who'd call himself a teacher, and what's more I think you know that in your heart. You seem like a conscientious guy; what does your conscience say to you about this?

::Anyway, it's your essay, you can obviously write what you want. But let me just give you a heads up: Next week, when I put your [[theory of relativity]] page on the table for major surgery? I don't think you're gonna like it. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:24, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, you didn't address the substance of my comment about the evidence, but don't worry about it. The bottom line is clear: no physics major, no physics grad student, and no physics teacher should dare criticize relativity, no matter what the data say. The political grip on this issue is intense. In fact, to be honest, I would advise against your criticizing it in any way. It could harm your (or any other teacher's or physicist's) career. There are examples of people who were denied tenure simply because they criticized evolution, and the politics here is just as strong.

:::I look forward to learning from your entry on the theory of relativity. The math is fascinating regardless of its manifestation in reality.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:33, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent) "Kate, you didn't address the substance of my comment about the evidence, but don't worry about it." What was there to address? You made an arithmetic error. Do you want me to send you the Mathematica scatterplot I made just to triple-check that I was interpreting the data correctly? It's pretty. The error bars are blue.

Andy, I wish I could get you to come to my department for a week. Just one week, any week. Our students, grad students, associates, profs, chair, heck, even the ''janitor'' criticizes relativity every day. I could get you a meeting with one of our theoretical cosmologist; he's been pulling his ''hair'' out for years trying to make some progress on the vacuum energy problem. For a while there he was coming into my office a couple times a week and saying … well, unprintable things about partial differential equations. Even we theoretical physicists think general relativity is a mathematical mess.

But we respect it anyway. Because it ''works,'' at least as far as anybody's been able to measure.

Can I ask you a question? What's your beef with relativity? I mean, I know you question the data, but … why? Are you just being iconoclastic? I don't mean that in a dismissive way; I totally understand and respect the impulse to say "Everybody agrees that this is true, so I'm going to question it!" I'd really just like to understand your point of view on this, whatever it may be. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:44, 14 November 2009 (EST)

: GR's predictions are off by more than the margin of error, as we discussed in detail above; it and special relativity have absurd discontinuities; there are logical flaws, as in relativistic mass; it conflicts with QM; and it predicts gravitons that have never been found despite wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on it. Relativity pulls people away from reading the Bible and relativity is pushed big-time by liberals. It chills progress by intimidating people against criticizing it. Other than that, the theory is pretty good!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:05, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::Wow, Mr. Schlafly must really like this conversation, he actually made a joke. ;) jk [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 00:15, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::Thanks very much for taking the time to reply; I understand better now. Of course, some of that is unmitigated garbage, and we'll have plenty of chances to deal with it when I fix your [[theory of relativity]] article next week, so I'll skip some points for now.

:::*''You'' discussed the fact that the predictions are outside the margin of error; ''I'' pointed out to you repeatedly that you were mistaken. I even offered to show you a plot. So come on.

:::*To be frank, relativity doesn't ''conflict'' with quantum mechanics; the two theories don't overlap in any domains we can presently observe. But that's the problem. They don't overlap, so we don't know how we're going to understand systems where both gravity and quantum mechanics have non-negligible effects. It's entirely possible that every such region of spacetime is sequestered behind an event horizon; that's jokingly called the "convenient cosmic censorship hypothesis" by one of my colleagues.

:::*General relativity doesn't predict gravitons at all. General relativity doesn't say anything about particles; the Standard Model predicts the existence of particles (like the Higgs). Gravitons are part of the various attempts to reformulate general relativity as a vector gauge theory, none of which have gotten there yet. And, uh, since none of the gauge theories have gotten there yet, Andy, ''not one dollar'' has been spent looking for gravitons. Because we don't know where to look. But we ''do'' know that if they could be detected by existing particle accelerators, they would've been. So if and when physicists decide to look for them, it's going to have to start with building an accelerator the size of our galaxy<ref>WARNING: exaggeration for humorous effect, do not take literally.</ref>, and you'll have your chance to lobby the appropriations committee then.

:::*Yes, studying relativity does take people away from time they could spend in religious activities. So does reading this site. Just give me a chance to copy-and-paste my contributions out before you shut it down to remove the temptation.

:::Anyway, like I said, we'll have plenty of time to have these arguments when I start work on [[theory of relativity]]. All I ask is that you ''engage in constructive collaboration'' with me and whomever else chooses to help out, rather than pouncing on the "undo" button like you did when I rewrote [[black hole]]. We've both demonstrated that we're reasonable adults, I think; we can work together. Deal? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 00:22, 15 November 2009 (EST)

{{reflist}}

::::I've been quietly following this conversation today, but Kate beat me to the "Submit" button! Well, I'll just point out that scientists can and frequently do "intimidat[e] people against criticizing" pretty much any theory, because they think it's right and they don't want to waste time. It's quite likely close-mindedness, but it exists, and you can't take that as disproof of the theory. I don't think someone who rejected Mendel or Maxwell would get pretty far today, either. (Yes, I know Mendel has been amended with epigenetic inheritance, but I think you get my picture). It's just a bothersome red herring.

::::I don't know anything about the Mercury data, but the most recent data I've seen here says general relativity might work; it's at the border of the range of error, and it's too precise for any of us to extrapolate. General relativity could be spot on. Or, a new theory being needed - if you're trying to construct a [[theory of everything]], a new theory definitely is needed to deal with [[quantum mechanics]]! But, general relativity does predict a lot of things better than Newton. Newton didn't explain everything, nor does general relativity - but I think you can find better stuff to attack it with than an extrapolation of Mercury orbital data. --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 00:37, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Ugh, I really should be sleeping, but this is just such an engaging conversation I can't seem to break away.

:::::If you make a measurement to test a theory and the measurement doesn't match the prediction, there are three possibilities. Either the measurement is wrong ("That's not Mercury, that's Saturn!") or the theory is wrong ("Turns out gravity ''isn't'' really caused by leprechauns!") or both are fundamentally right but you failed to take something into account ("We really shouldn't have assumed the sun is a sphere.")

:::::The thing about the Mercury anomaly is that the observed and predicted numbers are ''insanely'' close together. So close as to be declared equal within the margin of error. So either general relativity is ''absolutely'' right and we accounted for ''everything'' — no physicist believes this, by the way — or general relativity is at least ''incredibly close'' to being right, so close that the factors we failed to account for are negligible at the scale of the Mercury anomaly.

:::::But the thing is, Mercury is really thin sauce, as gravity goes. The fields are weak, and the prediction we're testing doesn't say anything terribly interesting about the theory. If you want to get a real feel for how general relativity holds up as a ''physical'' theory, and not just a mathematical one, you really need to look at the Gravity Probe B data. (Conflict of interest alert: I worked on that project.) That experiment didn't measure gravitation indirectly by observing the motion of a particle; it measured it ''directly'' by parallel transporting a vector in a closed loop around a region of curvature. We ''empirically'' measured the curvature of spacetime around a gravitating object (the Earth) and found it to be non-zero. Spacetime is ''not'' flat, massive bodies ''do'' curve spacetime, and the fundamental ''idea'' of general relativity reflects nature.

:::::General relativity doesn't just say that a falling body moves like such-n-such. It tells us ''why.'' And to see it dismissed out of hand because Andy doesn't care for the size of the error bars on the results of a radar study? That, I confess, rubs me the wrong way. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 00:51, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::Great point about experimental error. Before I ''really do'' sign off for the night, Kate, I'd like to give you an article suggestion: [[Gravity_Probe_B]]. I'm enthusiastically looking forward to hearing how it was done! --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 01:00, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::Oh, I'm not the girl to write that one. It'd be 200 pages long and full of equations and whole paragraphs of me going "You guys this is so ''awesome!"'' --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 01:09, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::On the contrary. You are exactly the right girl to write this. But not yet. Do GR first, OK? And you'll have to take off your instructor hat, and put on your explainer-for-lay-people hat, so that it won't be 200 pages long. Whenever you reach the point where you think "You guys this is so ''awesome''", don't go into "and so I have to write the awesome equations". Go into "how can I convey the awesomeness to my reader?". [[User:PatrickD|PatrickD]] 11:32, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::I don't want to perpetuate this debate, but I don't want a lack of response to be misinterpreted. Relativity has quasi-religious status for many; they'll defend regardless of what the evidence is, regardless of its absurd inconsistencies, and regardless of its far-fetched assumptions and non-falsifiability. I don't mind relativity, and look forward to reviewing the updated entry. But open-mindedness is not a trait of many relativists, who will demonize anyone who points out its fairly obvious flaws.

:::::::One way to evaluate religions, or quasi-religions, is to look at the fruit it bears. What has it helped achieved? In the case of relativity, it has produced nothing. Nil. Zippo. After nearly 100 years and a ton of money. If you find the math in relativity fun, great, but relativity is not going to help anyone. It never has. Pick up a Bible in between some equations.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:31, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::::''"Relativity has quasi-religious status for many…regardless of its far-fetched assumptions and non-falsifiability."'' As has already been shown repeatedly by those knowledgeable and qualified in the subject such as KSorenson the theory of general relativity is eminently falsifiable. For instance the two gravity probes (GP-A and GP-B) were launched specifically to measure rate change of a clock in lower gravity and space-time curvature near the Earth respectively, both experiments specifically testing the theory of relativity. As both experiments were to test the theory of relativity this means that the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be considered falsifiable. This is as patently obvious as stating that 2+2=4. If the theory of relativity is not falsifiable then no experiment can exist to test it. The existence of Gravity Probes A & B automatically that the previous statement cannot be true. So, the undeniable existence of Gravity Probes A & B now proving the falsifiability of the theory of general relativity this means that by Karl Popper's rigorous standard the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be a science. This is immediately obvious to anyone who has made an in depth study of Popper's work, the kind of study that all students of the pure sciences undergo, although strangely enough those students of those subjects which use an applied form of science never seem to be taught such things to the levels required. Presumably this is because the standard of science they are taught is considerably less rigorous or in-depth than the standards expected of and required of students of the pure sciences.

::::::::As the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be considered a science then this in turn means the first part of your statement: ''"Relativity has a quasi-religious status"'' is itself false. Science is not religion. Religion requires hope, hope that what one believes is true. Science requires absolute cynicism, it requires one to say "this is my idea, help me prove it wrong". To this date tests on the theory of general relativity has failed to show that it is wrong, and where measurements have been made to confirm or deny the accuracy of the general theory of relativity such results have shown that the predictions made by the theory of relativity are accurate to the observed effects well within the scientifically determined margins of error.

::::::::The statement that ''"relativity is not going to help anyone"'' is, of course, as wrong as you can get. The theory of relativity opened up a massive area of study, and there are no known limits to what may be achieved through such studies. It is not hyperbole to state that the creation of the theory of relativity is as important, if not more important, than the discovery of the safe generation and transference of electricity. This is known and accepted by everybody who has an in depth knowledge of the subject, knowledge gained through years of learning and self-teaching that begins after one leaves university, after one has gained the bedrock of knowledge required to begin teaching oneself the true depths of a subject.

::::::::I beg of you this one thing. Open up your Bible and truly study the price one pays for Arrogance and Pride. Learn the lesson that the true Student and Teacher must come to the subjects they study in a state of Humility. Of all the posts on the subject of general relativity each and every person that has made an in depth study of the subject have stated that the views you hold on general relativity are wrong. The only person who states that your views are correct are yourself. Look inside yourself and ask if your stubborn resistance to accept what others learned in the subject have to say on this matter is arrogance, pride or humility.(by DanHutchin)

:::::::::Dan, I accept your challenge. I'll work on translating the Bible tonight and tomorrow with "a state of Humility." Thank you for suggesting it. In the meantime, could you specify how the theory of relativity has helped anyone? Electricity powers hospitals that save lives, and increase productivity and wealth which help the poor throughout the world. You say relativity "is as important, if not more important." Specific examples, please?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:52, 15 November 2009 (EST)

: Sorry for butting in here but I love science, I am a science major currently. In my mind God gave us the scientific method and the tools to explore his creation for his glory. We can debate the merits of relativity all day but the fact remains that if it is true it is part of God's creation and because of that, automatically gives it value. Plus, pure science in a lot of cases leads to applied science. I don't like arguments based on what we don't know. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 22:00, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:: Ameda, that's fine, but surely you'd agree that unproductive theories or beliefs should not squeeze out productive ones. Someone can use rhetoric to defend any belief or activity, from watching television to drinking beer. One can spend hours explaining to an addict why he should, for example, stop smoking. All the explaining in the world is not as powerful as this: ''nothing good comes of it''. Relativity has had nearly 100 years to help somebody, anybody. How many more centuries should we give it priority over alternative, productive work?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:14, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::GPS, fiber optics, solar panels and PET scans don't count?

:::I'm amusingly reminded of what Benjamin Franklin said when asked what good was the then-freshly-invented hot-air balloon. "What good is a newborn baby?" That was 1783; powered flight didn't happen until 1903. If you don't see ''enough'' benefits from relativity yet, I'd say you need to embrace patience. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 22:20, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::: And by "squeeze out" I assume you mean in funding? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, I think it is worth it because it is an integral part of God's creation. Plus, I don't think that just because relativity is given grant money that necessarily means that it is taking it from money that would have gone to say genetically engineering bigger crops. There isn't a one-one correspondence.

::::I agree with a lot on here but honestly Andy, with all respect, I think DanHutchin is right. We all suffer from pride and from all I have read on here, from your brother Roger to Kate above, you are suffering from it big time on this issue. Think, is it really a coincidence that the first part of the Conservative Bible Project I translated was talking about humbling oneself and I did it just this very night? Sorry for the long response but know that it comes from the heart. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 22:29, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::: Amen, Ameda. I appreciate your advice for me to read the Bible more, and with a humbler heart. I'd also like your advice about this. If empirically the promotion of relativity leads people ''away'' from the Bible, would you still support the promotion of relativity? A direct answer from your heart, please.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:43, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::: From the heart, and '''hopefully''' my understanding of the Word, anything can lead people away from the Lord, even if "based" on the Word of God. What I mean by that is people can use and abuse anything, even the Bible to support xyz. ''You know how many times I see Peter Popoff ripping off my brothers and sisters in Christ for some "Miracle spring water"?''

::::::If relativity is part of the fabric of the universe, and I do think that, then it was created by God just as much as the Bible, the stars, etc. and as I said can be used and abused. The only way science can lead one away from the Lord is if there isn't the secondary component to it, the spiritual one, the one stating that this was created by a being that created you and loves you. That is the only thing that needs to be addressed not relativity itself. Basically it seems like you are arguing that God's creation can lead people away from him? I don't think that is scriptural nor correct. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:04, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::No, that's not what I'm saying, and I humbly requested a ''direct'' answer. People who are taught and then believe relativity are less likely to read the Bible again, or as frequently. If true (as we've seen on this site and in colleges), do you still support the promotion of relativity?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:18, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::I don't think that is what you're saying, but Ameda has a point: if relativity is true, then God made it, so we can't dismiss it. If it isn't true, and if it does lead people away from the Bible, then we shouldn't be talking about it - but we first need to decide whether relativity is true.

:::::::And could I please see those statistics? I believe relativity, and I read the Bible. I think you're mistaking a correlation for causation: we already know colleges try to move students away from the Bible, and they're where most people happen to learn relativity. So, even though relativity has nothing to do with it, it's quite possible that people who study relativity are less likely to read the Bible because they've happened to spend years at liberal schools. (Incidentally, that's a good reason to teach relativity here at Conservapedia!) --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 23:24, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::: Andy, you are trying to trap me into some black/white answer here. I believe that relativity is true and therefore when taught in all aspects will not lead people away from God. You might as well ask me the same thing concerning the Sun. Can it lead people away, sure, '''when''' it is couched in naturalistic philosophy. You are making some wild hypothetical based on nothing but your own encounters with vandals on this site, that is not empirical. I can easily make the same hypothetical concerning Conservapedia itself. I view this site as preaching the word of God but that doesn't mean that just because someone thinks less of Christianity after reading it then that means it is a problem with the site, it could be with the person not wanting to hear the truth.

PS- People misunderstood me, I wasn't saying Andy was arguing that it simply reads like it as a consequence of what he is saying considering that relativity is correct and was designed by God. My opinion of course.[[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:29, 15 November 2009 (EST)

Essay:Greatest Conservative Legislation

2009-11-16T04:18:27Z

Ameda: Constitution

Here is a growing list of the greatest [[conservative]] legislation:
#[[Taft-Hartley Act]] ([[Congress]] overrode a presidential veto)
#[[Twenty-Second Amendment]] (term limits for the [[presidency]])
#[[Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981]] (Kemp-Roth Tax Cut)
#[[Tax Reform Act of 1986]] (substantially lowered tax rates)
#[[Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996]] (welfare reform)
#[[Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003]]
#[[The Volstead Act]] ([[Congress]] overrode a presidential veto, on the same day as the veto!)
#[[United States Constitution]], the most important document in history, part of what made this country great.

(add more, especially from earlier periods in history)

[[Category:Essays about Conservatism]]

User talk:EvanW

2009-11-16T04:09:16Z

Ameda: /* Cat Cora */

User talk:EvanW

2009-11-16T04:08:16Z

Ameda: Sig

== Cat Cora ==
It's correct now because she changed it from her doing badly because she is gay to her marrying her partner. Plus, I don't think this person warrants inclusion. Trust me, Alphak is a vandal. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 23:08, 15 November 2009 (EST)

User talk:EvanW

2009-11-16T04:07:59Z

Ameda: Cat Cora

Talk:Essay:Quantifying Order

2009-11-16T04:04:32Z

Ameda: Sig

Talk:Essay:Quantifying Order

2009-11-16T04:04:11Z

Ameda:

Talk:Essay:Quantifying Order

2009-11-16T03:30:04Z

Ameda: Format fix

Talk:Essay:Quantifying Order

2009-11-16T03:29:32Z

Ameda:

"Subsequently, however, more accurate measurements with more sophisticated technology have determined this precession to be 55 arc-seconds per century, nearly 30% off the number provided by relativity."

Please provide a citation in the article for this. I'm shocked that I somehow missed the news. Thanks much. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 17:48, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:I'm urging you to look beyond what you're taught. I went through the same physics curriculum as others, and it is what isn't taught that matters. Earnestly.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 17:53, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::Okay. Let's find a way of making that point without quoting an incorrect value for the Mercury anomaly then? Cause putting in a number that's not actually supported by observations just to make a philosophical point seems kind of … I dunno. Deceptive? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 17:58, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, if I can call you that, I have no reason to lie about this. I'm not applying for any grants. I'm not trying to get a PhD from liberal professors. I'm not worried about what my colleagues might say. Like the Bible, I'm just telling the truth, and trying to learn more of it.

:::The physics journals all seem to require payment for access. But type this into a Google search: 5599.7 Mercury. You'll then see what the liberal physics professors won't tell you, as Google returns fragments from limited-access journals. Then, please, pause for a moment and ask yourself: why didn't they tell you this so you could decide for yourself, rather than being told what to think?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:40, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::::Oh, okay. I see where you made an honest mistake.

::::There are two numbers at play here: there's the ''observed'' precession of Mercury's orbit, and then there's the ''anomaly.'' The anomaly is the amount by which the observed precession differs from the mathematically predicted precession. What you did was quote a figure for the ''anomaly'' using the figure for the ''observed'' precession. Hang on, lemme splain.

::::The precession of an orbit is the sum of several effects. Newton's approximation for gravity predicted three different effects: axial precession of 5,025 arc seconds per century, 530 additional arc seconds per century from the gravitational effects of the other planets, and a tiny amount, less than one arc second per century, due to the fact that the sun isn't a perfect sphere. (Those numbers are all rounded off; the precise figures are trivially googlable.)

::::If you add up the precession predicted by Newton's approximation, you get exactly 5,557.02 arc seconds per century.

::::But if you run the numbers using the Einstein equations instead of the Newton equations — using the same constants for things like the mass and shape of the sun — you get a precession of exactly 5,600±0.04 arc seconds per century. It's really weird that it would be a round number like that, but that's how the math works out.

::::The observed precession of Mercury's orbit? It's 5,599.7 arc seconds per century. Which is where you got your number from. And that means the general relativity prediction was accurate to within (deep breath) one half of one one hundredth of one percent.

::::That's like shooting an arrow from Los Angeles and hitting the bullseye in Melbourne.

::::Would you be a dear and remove the incorrect anomaly figure from your essay now? I know it's a work in progress and I hate nitpickers, but somebody could stumble across that and be misinformed.--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 19:11, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Your point is an excellent one. Thank you. The 30% figure was wrong for the reasons you provide.

:::::But the underlying point in this entry remains correct: due to advances in precision in measurement, the prediction of relativity no longer matches the data on the precession. The discrepancy is much greater than the margin of error, which is all that matters from a logical perspective. The entry has been updated accordingly, and I welcome further comments you may have.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:44, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(Unindent) I'm not sure you're going to welcome these comments, sir. Because you're just flat-out, provably, unequivocally wrong on this one. The observed value of the precession of Mercury hasn't been changed in a hundred years, because it's a direct observation. We measured it with telescopes, and those were just fine at that scale a century ago.

I'm afraid your edit made the offending section paragraph ''even more misleading than it was.'' Predicted value of the precession (via Newton) in 1915: 5,557. Observed value in 1915? 5,600. Difference? 43. Predicted value from the Einstein equations? 5,600. Observed value today? Still 5,600. Difference? Ridiculously small. I ''know'' you're actively working on this essay, and I feel ''really'' bad about beating you up over this, but you wouldn't have the paragraph in there unless you thought it had value.

Just so you know, I've got some feedback on your paragraph on quantum mechanics as well. For starters, the position and momentum of a particle is exactly as uncertain after an observation as it is before, because reducing uncertainty of the position increases uncertainty of the momentum and vice versa. They're intrinsically linked. Maybe that's not your point; measuring a particle does, I suppose, bring about a sort of philosophical order that was previously absent — we know where the particle is now — but at the cost of reducing our knowledge about another aspect of the particle's motion. But your essay isn't fleshed out enough for me to really see yet what you're getting at, so that might be irrelevant to your point. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 20:00, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:Kate, I don't have an ax to grind about this. General Relativity was developed to explain the Mercury precession, so the theory certainly should fit the data. I expected that it would. But the fit isn't there anymore, due to more precise measurements. It's beyond the margin of error, and logically that's all that matters. You're using rounding above that obscures what the margin of error is. Professor Will does not even include this test in his recent summary of all the evidence for GR, and we can now see why. Those are the facts, and logic applied to the facts. Anyone has free will to accept or deny it. I accept the facts and logic as they require.

:You make an interesting point about position, but I don't think the essay is incorrect because it says nothing about momentum. Observation can pin down the position, which is relevant to establishing order. But without observation there is disorder. That is the basic point.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:11, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::Right, but there's an error of fact buried in there. It's a totally innocent one, I'm sure; I'm not accusing you of axe-grinding. It's just that the precession of the perihelion of Mercury ''has not changed'' since 1916 when the theory was published. It's not that we measured it with telescopes before 1916 and got a rough estimate, and now we measure it with better telescopes and have a much more precise figure. We measured it before 1916 and got a very accurate figure because measuring the motion of Mercury just isn't that hard, and the measurements we make today with better telescopes say only that yup, the older measurements were pretty much spot on.

::What we ''have'' done since then is to much more precisely measure the oblateness of the sun. There was a big controversy about that back in the … hmm … 80s I think it was? Goldberg and Dicke claimed that the sun was much "fatter" than previously thought, which ''would have'' made the predictions from general relativity different from the observed precession. Maybe that's what you're thinking of? For a while there was a lot of disagreement about what shape the sun actually is, but that's been pretty much put to bed with both more accurate ground-based observations in the 90s and helioseismography.

::Anyway, saying that the prediction matched the observation in 1916 and doesn't today is simply flat-out false. If your argument depends on it, then you're hurting your argument with this point. If it doesn't, then what's the harm in fixing it?

::Thanks for clarifying your point about quantum mechanics. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 20:35, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, as I said, I don't care either way, but I am going to tell the truth. GR fit the observed data in 1916 (indeed, GR was developed to fit it), but now (due to more sophisticated measurements) the GR prediction is wrong ''by more than the margin of error''. None of your comments above address the margin of error, which must be the scientific focus. A difference between theory and observation is not "ridiculously small" if it is more than the margin of error, as in this case.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:47, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::: Perhaps this is what Mr. Schlafly is referring to. The article states that 5599.7 arc-seconds is the observed value. KSorenson is quoting a value of 5,600 (±0.04). 5600-.04=5599.96. From just those values then yes the relativity value is higher by .26 arc-seconds even factoring in the error. The only thing I ask is what is the error range for the observed value? [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 21:08, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Presumably the error range for the observed value is no more than .1. Again, note that Professor Will conspicuously omits this famous claim of evidence for GR from his recent comprehensive summary of the evidence for GR, as cited in this entry.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:12, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent again because I'm lazy with bullets) We can do a heck of a lot better than "presumably," Andy, and as a person who cares deeply about facts and logic, you darned well know that. I happen to have the Pijpers paper from 94 here; I dug it out when I thought you might have been thinking of helioseismography. In it he cites radar ranging studies from 1976 to 1992. Here's the data, ''with margins of error.'' Note that these numbers are for ''the anomaly,'' and not the precession total, and remember that the figure from the Einstein equation is 42.98 ± 0.04, okay?

*43.11 ± 0.21 (Shapiro 76)
*42.92 ± 0.20 (Anderson 87)
*42.94 ± 0.20 (Anderson 91)
*43.13 ± 0.14 (Anderson 92)

So the Einstein prediction is within the margin of error of those four radar-ranging measurements of the Mercury anomaly. I'm sure there've been more recent studies, but I don't have them literally sitting in front of my face at the moment, so those are the ones I'm citing. Can I see your numbers that say the Einstein prediction is outside the margin? More recent data than what I have in my hand here maybe? (This Pijpers paper is [http://arxiv.org/pdf/astro-ph/9804258v1 on ARXIV], by the way, if you want to check it out.)--[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 21:17, 14 November 2009 (EST)

Oh, and just incidentally? Will didn't leave Mercury out of his paper; he just talked about it in really jargony physics-paper language.

:Three decades of experiments, ranging from the standard light-deﬂection and perihelion-shift tests to lunar laser ranging, planetary and satellite tracking, and geophysical and astronomical observations, have placed bounds on the PPN parameters consistent with general relativity.

"PPN" is the ''parameterized post''-''Newton'' formalism, a rewriting of the law of universal gravitation to include coefficients derived from general relativity. The Einstein field equations are nightmarish to solve, so PPN was created as a middle-ground approximation between the (good but not good enough in some contexts) Newton approximation and the agonizing pain of having to actually ''solve'' the Einstein field equations every time you want to calculate the delta-vee required during a solar slingshot maneuver for a planetary probe. What Will said in that paper is the PPN approximation has been tested ''against general relativity'' and supported by 30 years of experiments.

This is really getting into the tall grass, and I know how you hate wasting time. Maybe we can bring this conversation to a conclusion? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 21:38, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:Kate, I have an open mind about this but, quite honestly, the relativists protest too much. Why do you care so much about defending relativity? Not to pick on you, however, because many trained in math and physics likewise defend relativity like they are defending their own reputation. It's bizarre. Regardless of the reason, protesting too much is not scientific.

:Answering the substance of your post, your most recent data is from 1992 (17 years ago, with the data probably older than that), and its margin of error confirms what I said: it's approaching 0.1. Combine that 0.1 (or 0.14 if you like) with the most recent data and it's clear that GR no longer fits the data. Of course, no one is going to dare publish a paper claiming GR is disproved by the data, and even if they tried, no journal would accept it. So the trail goes cold at this point, just as the data diverge from the GR predictions and the margin of error declines to where it can't save GR.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:37, 14 November 2009 (EST)

::"Why do you care so much about defending relativity?" 'Cause teaching physics is something I do for a living. 'Cause I think it's really neat. 'Cause seeing somebody totally misunderstand it, and then go on to draw incorrect conclusions based on his misunderstanding of it, and finally to pass those incorrect conclusions on to impressionable kids who trust him … well, that just breaks my heart. You can call it protesting too much if you want, Andy. But I wish you could understand that it's really just me trying to help.

::I wouldn't have fought you on this at all if you'd said something like "A dozen eggs contains fifteen eggs, plus or minus two." That's just ''obviously'' wrong, and nobody who reads it would fall for it. But you're hiding your false conclusion behind a wall of data that you know most people won't bother looking up for themselves, and that's just dishonest. That's unworthy of anybody who'd call himself a teacher, and what's more I think you know that in your heart. You seem like a conscientious guy; what does your conscience say to you about this?

::Anyway, it's your essay, you can obviously write what you want. But let me just give you a heads up: Next week, when I put your [[theory of relativity]] page on the table for major surgery? I don't think you're gonna like it. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:24, 14 November 2009 (EST)

:::Kate, you didn't address the substance of my comment about the evidence, but don't worry about it. The bottom line is clear: no physics major, no physics grad student, and no physics teacher should dare criticize relativity, no matter what the data say. The political grip on this issue is intense. In fact, to be honest, I would advise against your criticizing it in any way. It could harm your (or any other teacher's or physicist's) career. There are examples of people who were denied tenure simply because they criticized evolution, and the politics here is just as strong.

:::I look forward to learning from your entry on the theory of relativity. The math is fascinating regardless of its manifestation in reality.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:33, 14 November 2009 (EST)

(unindent) "Kate, you didn't address the substance of my comment about the evidence, but don't worry about it." What was there to address? You made an arithmetic error. Do you want me to send you the Mathematica scatterplot I made just to triple-check that I was interpreting the data correctly? It's pretty. The error bars are blue.

Andy, I wish I could get you to come to my department for a week. Just one week, any week. Our students, grad students, associates, profs, chair, heck, even the ''janitor'' criticizes relativity every day. I could get you a meeting with one of our theoretical cosmologist; he's been pulling his ''hair'' out for years trying to make some progress on the vacuum energy problem. For a while there he was coming into my office a couple times a week and saying … well, unprintable things about partial differential equations. Even we theoretical physicists think general relativity is a mathematical mess.

But we respect it anyway. Because it ''works,'' at least as far as anybody's been able to measure.

Can I ask you a question? What's your beef with relativity? I mean, I know you question the data, but … why? Are you just being iconoclastic? I don't mean that in a dismissive way; I totally understand and respect the impulse to say "Everybody agrees that this is true, so I'm going to question it!" I'd really just like to understand your point of view on this, whatever it may be. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 23:44, 14 November 2009 (EST)

: GR's predictions are off by more than the margin of error, as we discussed in detail above; it and special relativity have absurd discontinuities; there are logical flaws, as in relativistic mass; it conflicts with QM; and it predicts gravitons that have never been found despite wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on it. Relativity pulls people away from reading the Bible and relativity is pushed big-time by liberals. It chills progress by intimidating people against criticizing it. Other than that, the theory is pretty good!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:05, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::Wow, Mr. Schlafly must really like this conversation, he actually made a joke. ;) jk [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 00:15, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::Thanks very much for taking the time to reply; I understand better now. Of course, some of that is unmitigated garbage, and we'll have plenty of chances to deal with it when I fix your [[theory of relativity]] article next week, so I'll skip some points for now.

:::*''You'' discussed the fact that the predictions are outside the margin of error; ''I'' pointed out to you repeatedly that you were mistaken. I even offered to show you a plot. So come on.

:::*To be frank, relativity doesn't ''conflict'' with quantum mechanics; the two theories don't overlap in any domains we can presently observe. But that's the problem. They don't overlap, so we don't know how we're going to understand systems where both gravity and quantum mechanics have non-negligible effects. It's entirely possible that every such region of spacetime is sequestered behind an event horizon; that's jokingly called the "convenient cosmic censorship hypothesis" by one of my colleagues.

:::*General relativity doesn't predict gravitons at all. General relativity doesn't say anything about particles; the Standard Model predicts the existence of particles (like the Higgs). Gravitons are part of the various attempts to reformulate general relativity as a vector gauge theory, none of which have gotten there yet. And, uh, since none of the gauge theories have gotten there yet, Andy, ''not one dollar'' has been spent looking for gravitons. Because we don't know where to look. But we ''do'' know that if they could be detected by existing particle accelerators, they would've been. So if and when physicists decide to look for them, it's going to have to start with building an accelerator the size of our galaxy<ref>WARNING: exaggeration for humorous effect, do not take literally.</ref>, and you'll have your chance to lobby the appropriations committee then.

:::*Yes, studying relativity does take people away from time they could spend in religious activities. So does reading this site. Just give me a chance to copy-and-paste my contributions out before you shut it down to remove the temptation.

:::Anyway, like I said, we'll have plenty of time to have these arguments when I start work on [[theory of relativity]]. All I ask is that you ''engage in constructive collaboration'' with me and whomever else chooses to help out, rather than pouncing on the "undo" button like you did when I rewrote [[black hole]]. We've both demonstrated that we're reasonable adults, I think; we can work together. Deal? --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 00:22, 15 November 2009 (EST)

{{reflist}}

::::I've been quietly following this conversation today, but Kate beat me to the "Submit" button! Well, I'll just point out that scientists can and frequently do "intimidat[e] people against criticizing" pretty much any theory, because they think it's right and they don't want to waste time. It's quite likely close-mindedness, but it exists, and you can't take that as disproof of the theory. I don't think someone who rejected Mendel or Maxwell would get pretty far today, either. (Yes, I know Mendel has been amended with epigenetic inheritance, but I think you get my picture). It's just a bothersome red herring.

::::I don't know anything about the Mercury data, but the most recent data I've seen here says general relativity might work; it's at the border of the range of error, and it's too precise for any of us to extrapolate. General relativity could be spot on. Or, a new theory being needed - if you're trying to construct a [[theory of everything]], a new theory definitely is needed to deal with [[quantum mechanics]]! But, general relativity does predict a lot of things better than Newton. Newton didn't explain everything, nor does general relativity - but I think you can find better stuff to attack it with than an extrapolation of Mercury orbital data. --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 00:37, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::Ugh, I really should be sleeping, but this is just such an engaging conversation I can't seem to break away.

:::::If you make a measurement to test a theory and the measurement doesn't match the prediction, there are three possibilities. Either the measurement is wrong ("That's not Mercury, that's Saturn!") or the theory is wrong ("Turns out gravity ''isn't'' really caused by leprechauns!") or both are fundamentally right but you failed to take something into account ("We really shouldn't have assumed the sun is a sphere.")

:::::The thing about the Mercury anomaly is that the observed and predicted numbers are ''insanely'' close together. So close as to be declared equal within the margin of error. So either general relativity is ''absolutely'' right and we accounted for ''everything'' — no physicist believes this, by the way — or general relativity is at least ''incredibly close'' to being right, so close that the factors we failed to account for are negligible at the scale of the Mercury anomaly.

:::::But the thing is, Mercury is really thin sauce, as gravity goes. The fields are weak, and the prediction we're testing doesn't say anything terribly interesting about the theory. If you want to get a real feel for how general relativity holds up as a ''physical'' theory, and not just a mathematical one, you really need to look at the Gravity Probe B data. (Conflict of interest alert: I worked on that project.) That experiment didn't measure gravitation indirectly by observing the motion of a particle; it measured it ''directly'' by parallel transporting a vector in a closed loop around a region of curvature. We ''empirically'' measured the curvature of spacetime around a gravitating object (the Earth) and found it to be non-zero. Spacetime is ''not'' flat, massive bodies ''do'' curve spacetime, and the fundamental ''idea'' of general relativity reflects nature.

:::::General relativity doesn't just say that a falling body moves like such-n-such. It tells us ''why.'' And to see it dismissed out of hand because Andy doesn't care for the size of the error bars on the results of a radar study? That, I confess, rubs me the wrong way. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 00:51, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::Great point about experimental error. Before I ''really do'' sign off for the night, Kate, I'd like to give you an article suggestion: [[Gravity_Probe_B]]. I'm enthusiastically looking forward to hearing how it was done! --[[User:EvanW|EvanW]] 01:00, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::Oh, I'm not the girl to write that one. It'd be 200 pages long and full of equations and whole paragraphs of me going "You guys this is so ''awesome!"'' --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 01:09, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::On the contrary. You are exactly the right girl to write this. But not yet. Do GR first, OK? And you'll have to take off your instructor hat, and put on your explainer-for-lay-people hat, so that it won't be 200 pages long. Whenever you reach the point where you think "You guys this is so ''awesome''", don't go into "and so I have to write the awesome equations". Go into "how can I convey the awesomeness to my reader?". [[User:PatrickD|PatrickD]] 11:32, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::::::I don't want to perpetuate this debate, but I don't want a lack of response to be misinterpreted. Relativity has quasi-religious status for many; they'll defend regardless of what the evidence is, regardless of its absurd inconsistencies, and regardless of its far-fetched assumptions and non-falsifiability. I don't mind relativity, and look forward to reviewing the updated entry. But open-mindedness is not a trait of many relativists, who will demonize anyone who points out its fairly obvious flaws.

:::::::One way to evaluate religions, or quasi-religions, is to look at the fruit it bears. What has it helped achieved? In the case of relativity, it has produced nothing. Nil. Zippo. After nearly 100 years and a ton of money. If you find the math in relativity fun, great, but relativity is not going to help anyone. It never has. Pick up a Bible in between some equations.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:31, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::::::::''"Relativity has quasi-religious status for many…regardless of its far-fetched assumptions and non-falsifiability."'' As has already been shown repeatedly by those knowledgeable and qualified in the subject such as KSorenson the theory of general relativity is eminently falsifiable. For instance the two gravity probes (GP-A and GP-B) were launched specifically to measure rate change of a clock in lower gravity and space-time curvature near the Earth respectively, both experiments specifically testing the theory of relativity. As both experiments were to test the theory of relativity this means that the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be considered falsifiable. This is as patently obvious as stating that 2+2=4. If the theory of relativity is not falsifiable then no experiment can exist to test it. The existence of Gravity Probes A & B automatically that the previous statement cannot be true. So, the undeniable existence of Gravity Probes A & B now proving the falsifiability of the theory of general relativity this means that by Karl Popper's rigorous standard the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be a science. This is immediately obvious to anyone who has made an in depth study of Popper's work, the kind of study that all students of the pure sciences undergo, although strangely enough those students of those subjects which use an applied form of science never seem to be taught such things to the levels required. Presumably this is because the standard of science they are taught is considerably less rigorous or in-depth than the standards expected of and required of students of the pure sciences.

::::::::As the theory of relativity meets the requirements to be considered a science then this in turn means the first part of your statement: ''"Relativity has a quasi-religious status"'' is itself false. Science is not religion. Religion requires hope, hope that what one believes is true. Science requires absolute cynicism, it requires one to say "this is my idea, help me prove it wrong". To this date tests on the theory of general relativity has failed to show that it is wrong, and where measurements have been made to confirm or deny the accuracy of the general theory of relativity such results have shown that the predictions made by the theory of relativity are accurate to the observed effects well within the scientifically determined margins of error.

::::::::The statement that ''"relativity is not going to help anyone"'' is, of course, as wrong as you can get. The theory of relativity opened up a massive area of study, and there are no known limits to what may be achieved through such studies. It is not hyperbole to state that the creation of the theory of relativity is as important, if not more important, than the discovery of the safe generation and transference of electricity. This is known and accepted by everybody who has an in depth knowledge of the subject, knowledge gained through years of learning and self-teaching that begins after one leaves university, after one has gained the bedrock of knowledge required to begin teaching oneself the true depths of a subject.

::::::::I beg of you this one thing. Open up your Bible and truly study the price one pays for Arrogance and Pride. Learn the lesson that the true Student and Teacher must come to the subjects they study in a state of Humility. Of all the posts on the subject of general relativity each and every person that has made an in depth study of the subject have stated that the views you hold on general relativity are wrong. The only person who states that your views are correct are yourself. Look inside yourself and ask if your stubborn resistance to accept what others learned in the subject have to say on this matter is arrogance, pride or humility.(by DanHutchin)

:::::::::Dan, I accept your challenge. I'll work on translating the Bible tonight and tomorrow with "a state of Humility." Thank you for suggesting it. In the meantime, could you specify how the theory of relativity has helped anyone? Electricity powers hospitals that save lives, and increase productivity and wealth which help the poor throughout the world. You say relativity "is as important, if not more important." Specific examples, please?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:52, 15 November 2009 (EST)

: Sorry for butting in here but I love science, I am a science major currently. In my mind God gave us the scientific method and the tools to explore his creation for his glory. We can debate the merits of relativity all day but the fact remains that if it is true it is part of God's creation and because of that, automatically gives it value. Plus, pure science in a lot of cases leads to applied science. I don't like arguments based on what we don't know. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 22:00, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:: Ameda, that's fine, but surely you'd agree that unproductive theories or beliefs should not squeeze out productive ones. Someone can use rhetoric to defend any belief or activity, from watching television to drinking beer. One can spend hours explaining to an addict why he should, for example, stop smoking. All the explaining in the world is not as powerful as this: ''nothing good comes of it''. Relativity has had nearly 100 years to help somebody, anybody. How many more centuries should we give it priority over alternative, productive work?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:14, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::GPS, fiber optics, solar panels and PET scans don't count?

:::I'm amusingly reminded of what Benjamin Franklin said when asked what good was the then-freshly-invented hot-air balloon. "What good is a newborn baby?" That was 1783; powered flight didn't happen until 1903. If you don't see ''enough'' benefits from relativity yet, I'd say you need to embrace patience. --[[User:KSorenson|KSorenson]] 22:20, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:::: And by "squeeze out" I assume you mean in funding? I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, I think it is worth it because it is an integral part of God's creation. Plus, I don't think that just because relativity is given grant money that necessarily means that it is taking it from money that would have gone to say genetically engineering bigger crops. There isn't a one-one correspondence.

I agree with a lot on here but honestly Andy, with all respect, I think DanHutchin is right. We all suffer from pride and from all I have read on here, from your brother Roger to Kate above, you are suffering from it big time on this issue. Think, is it really a coincidence that the first part of the Conservative Bible Project I translated was talking about humbling oneself and I did it just this very night? Sorry for the long response but know that it comes from the heart. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 22:29, 15 November 2009 (EST)

Talk:Essay:Quantifying Order

2009-11-16T03:00:23Z

Ameda: My 2 cents

Talk:Luke 17-24 (Translated)

2009-11-16T02:55:47Z

Ameda: /* Earthly */

Luke 23:34 Is it possible that this verse wasn't talking as much about those who crucified Christ not knowing they were crucifying an innocent man, but that they didn't realize that, by doing so, they were bringing the salvation of all mankind?
:More likely than anything, this was an addition that never belong in Luke in the first place, added after the destruction of the temple to place the blame on Rome and not God. Just google the verse and you'll find tons of sources on this. 04:31, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

The only basis for excluding "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do", is based upon its absence from older, and therefore supposedly better, mss, which is a questionable premise. (one side: http://www.cai.org/faq/kvj-part-2) Its exclusion on doctrinal grounds has no real basis. This does indeed fulfill the prophecy in Isa. 53:12, that he "made intercession for the transgressors", praying for them which despitefully abused Him. (cf. Lk. 6:28)

While it is true that there is no forgiveness without repentance, this is another case of the righteous asking for mercy for sinners, which has a solid Scriptural basis.

Exo 32:32 "Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written." (A desire seen in Paul: Rm. 9:3)

Num 14:19 "Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now." (cf. Gen. 50:17; Amos 7:2)

Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Thus these text must also be excluded, upon the doctrinal basis which is used for Lk. 23:34.

Praying as Christ did manifests selfless love for sinners, even our enemies, which we are commanded to do, (while also reproving such, which Jesus also did). While this may not secure deliverance at the final judgment seat, it can forestall immediate judgment. God hears the cry of the unjustly afflicted, and promised to kill Israelites in response to hearing their cry. (Exo. 22:21-24) But examples are given of intercession which prevented the warranted temporal judgment upon sinners. (Exo. 32:9-14)

As for the objection that the subjects of Jesus intercession were not ignorant, this is seen as regarding the full cognizance of what they were doing by the people overall, and is confirmed by other texts:

Act 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. (and repentance is then commanded: v. 19)

1 Cor 2:7-8 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: {8} Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."

Finally, rather than making a new translation which is supposed to correct liberal translations, here and in its "thought for thought" form it is following the practice of liberal scholarship. While archaic words can be replaced in the KJV with modern spelling, this radical revision is unwarranted and unwise. Better to just add conservative notes to the suggested revision. [[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 08:53, 17 October 2009 (EDT)

================

:Thanks for your analysis. I've learned from your quotes of other Scriptural passages. But note how those passages are slightly different: none contain the illogical reasoning of "forgive them because they know not what they are doing." Sin requires intent, and if there were a true and justified lack of knowledge, then there would be nothing to forgive. So the phrase in Luke has a logical flaw the others lack.

:This phrase doe snot appear in the other Gospels and is not in the original manuscripts. That evidence alone is very compelling in demonstrating it is fake.

:Jesus Himself did NOT forgive one of the thiefs crucified along with Him, so the contradiction is disfavored.

:Finally, as an interesting aside, note how the fake phrase has been cited by evil-doers. One murderer quoted it defiantly just prior to execution. That would be very odd indeed if the phrase were authentic.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:16, 18 October 2009 (EDT)

:: One additional point: Luke was not an eyewitness, but served as an historian. It's implausible that he would include such a quote when the eyewitnesses Matthew, Mark and John all missed it.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 19:54, 18 October 2009 (EDT)

Thanks for your reply. Your objection #1 is that while others Scripturally prayed for God to forgive souls, yet these were culpable while those in Luke were said to be ignorant, thus forgiving them would be illogical. However, this supposes that the souls at issue were inculpably ignorant, and not at all guilty of slaying an innocent man, though they were blind that he was the Messiah. One can also be guilty of being ignorant, due to not cooperating with the grace that would have led to enlightenment. It was ignorance that Jesus was the Messiah that is stated in 1 Cor 2:7-8, and that the Jews were guilty of this is what Peter indicates in his preaching Acts 2 and 3. Realizing this, and the consequence of being on the wrong side of Jesus, the former crowd earnestly sought salvation. (2:37) Also, the apostle Paul testifies he was the chief of sinners, persecuting the church, but that he found mercy for because he "did it ignorantly in unbelief." (1Tim. 1:13-15; cf. 1Cor. 15:9)

It should also be noted that the Old Testament (Lev. 4;5; Num. 15) provides ample examples of how souls are in need of forgiveness, protection from wrath, in the case of sins of ignorance, perhaps such as due to carelessness/forgetfulness/neglect, after the giving of the law.

So i think there is sufficient warrant to allow that these were guilty souls, and hence the intercession, which is consistent with other Godly examples of such. (The correlation of sins and affliction also has an element of mystery to it, as Jesus forgave a sick man who did not ask, equaling it with healing, (Luke 17:17-25) a correlation that is also seen in James 5:14+15. The former is invoked by your(?) church to validate proxy faith, though in both cases it is not be presumed that they could not assent to faith.)

2. As acknowledged, the mss issue could be an argument for exclusion, as debatable as it is.
However, excluding it due to its sole inclusion in Luke would also logically candidate numerous other texts for deletion, which uniquely are provided by the inspired diligent historian, and whose accuracy is well attested to. Luke's gospel for Gentiles, which he researched different sources for (though ref tags were not needed) has 59 percent more material than Matthew, and records six of Jesus’ miracles and 18 parables or stories (publican sinner,s etc.) that are not found in any other gospel, with it overall having more than twice as many of His illustrations than other Gospel writers, making it the longest gospel account. His propensity for thoroughness also weighs against the argument that sees it implausible that he would include a quote that other writers did not know of. Concise (what's that?) overview of gospels here: http://www.lifeofchrist.com/life/gospels/print.asp

3. As for Jesus not forgiving the railing criminal, that offers no real weight favoring disallowing Him from doing it to others. Grace is owed to no man, and God could have even brought Tyre, Sidon, and Sodom to repentance. (Mt. 11:20-24)

4. And as noted before, the misappropriation of Scripture text by enemies is not odd, but logical, and cannot itself warrant their exclusion, lest we remove the 75% percent (i think) of the KJV which the BOM is said to plagiarize! Good day. [[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 00:42, 19 October 2009 (EDT)

:I think there's definitely a precedent for eliminating passages with questionable textual support (e.g. the Comma Johanneum in 1 John 5:7-8). However, even in the cases where the text is almost certainly much later, such as the longer ending of Mark, it could be a good idea to at least provide a note, along the lines of "Some manuscripts add..." just to avoid charges of manipulating the text. Even very liberal translations often do that type of thing. (Of course, they are still criticized for "tampering with the Word of God," but a little footnote can go a long way toward eliminating that kind of charge.) Just a thought.--[[User:Caspianrex|Cory Howell]] 14:59, 22 October 2009 (EDT)

::I do not think Mark left an abrupt ending, and better to include such, and then put a note. In fact, I still hold to my assertion that outside updating words, no real revision is necessary. The KJV does not produce liberals, though cults use it for its power, and providing sound conservative commentary is far far better than a "thought for thought" translation which does a substantial amount of revision, largely driven to prevent attempts by liberals to hijack the text.[[User:Daniel1212|Daniel1212]] 21:56, 26 October 2009 (EDT)

== Earthly ==
My reason for including "earthly" was that I think it incorporates the non-physical parts of the world that are sinful. Putting both the materialism and non-physical parts together makes it more complete. Also, being of the world, "earthly" or "worldly", in my mind is more economic in word use because it encompasses so much in just one word. [[User:Ameda|ameda]] 21:36, 15 November 2009 (EST)

:I don't see how Jesus would be referring to any sins other than materialism in this context. It's only one Greek word, not two.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:44, 15 November 2009 (EST)

::Very good point, I'm going to get rid of earthly. I guess my last point would only be that inherent is materialism is the knowledge that most people aren't materialistic in the sense that they just want objects, period. I think they want them more for either what those objects can give them (emotionally for instance) or bestow upon them in social status; things that are divorced from the "physical" world. Things that theology says replaces God.[[User:Ameda|ameda]] 21:53, 15 November 2009 (EST)

Luke 17-24 (Translated)

2009-11-16T02:54:27Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 18 */ deleted "Earthly"

==Chapter 17==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
|Then he said to the disciples, "It is necessary that terrible things will happen, but woe to him who causes them!
|
|-
|2
|It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
|It would be better for him if a large stone were hung on his neck and he was thrown into the sea, than that he should harm one of these little ones.
|
|-
|3
|Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
|Remember always, that if another should harm you, you should rebuke him, and if he repents, you should forgive him.
|
|-
|4
|And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
|And if he harms you seven times in one day, and seven times in a day turns to you and repents, you should forgive him."
|
|-
|5
|And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
|The apostles asked the Lord to increase their faith.
|
|-
|6
|And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
|And the Lord said, "If your faith was as a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this Mulberry tree, 'Get up from your roots, and plant yourself in the sea,' and it would obey you."
|Sycamine=mulberry See Jamieson, Fausset & Brown and Adam Clarke
|-
|7
|But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
|But which of you will say to a servant, when he has finished his tasks for the day, go and rest well and eat?
|
|-
|8
|And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
|Rather than prepare my dinner and wait upon me until I have finished; only then may you go and eat.
|
|-
|9
|Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
|Do you thank the servant because he did as you ordered him? I think not.
|
|-
|10
|So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
|So shall you, when you have done all of the things you have been told to do, declare your dedication, and that you have done what you must do."
|
|-
|11
|And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
|Later, on His way to Jerusalem, He passed through Samaria and Galilee.
|
|-
|12
|And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
|As he went into a certain village, he was met by ten men with leprosy, who had been standing at a distance.
|
|-
|13
|And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
|They called to him, and said 'Jesus! Master! Have mercy on us.'
|
|-
|14
|And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
|When He saw them, He said 'Go show yourselves to the priests. And, as they obeyed him, they were healed.
|
|-
|15
|And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
|One of them, seeing he was healed, went back, loudly giving praise to God.
|
|-
|16
|And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
|The man, a Samaritan, fell down at Jesus' feet and thanked Him.
|
|-
|17
|And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
|Jesus said to him "Weren't ten healed? Where are the other nine?
|
|-
|18
|There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
|Only this man, a Samaritan, came back to give praise and glory to God."
|
|-
|19
|And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
|Jesus said to the man, "Get up, and go. Your faith has healed you."
|
|-
|20
|And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
|When the Pharisees demanded that he tell them when the kingdom of God would come, he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that will be easy to see.
|
|-
|21
|Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
|Nor will people say, 'Here it is! Or there it is! Look amongst yourselves for the kingdom of God."
|
|-
|22
|And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
|Then he said to his students, "The days are coming, when you will all desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it.
|
|-
|23
|And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
|And people will tell you, 'Here he is! Or there he is!' Don't go after them; don't follow them.
|
|-
|24
|For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
|For just as the lightning flashes across the entire sky, that is how the Son of man will be in his day.
|
|-
|25
|But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
|First, though, he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation.
|
|-
|26
|And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
|As it was back in Noah's days, that's how it will be in the days of the Son of man.
|
|-
|27
|They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
|They ate and drank, they married and were given in marriage--right up to the time they went into the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed everyone.
|
|-
|28
|Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
|
|
|-
|29
|But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
|
|
|-
|30
|Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
|
|
|-
|31
|In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
|
|
|-
|32
|Remember Lot's wife.
|
|
|-
|33
|Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
|
|
|-
|34
|I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
|
|
|-
|35
|Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
|
|
|-
|36
|Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
|
|
|-
|37
|And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 18==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
|And to teach them that man ought to pray and not faint, he told them this parable:
|
|-
|2
|Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
|"In a city, there was a judge who did not respect God or men,
|
|-
|3
|And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
|and a widow, and she came to the judge said, 'Give me revenge upon my advesary.'
|
|-
|4
|And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
|For some time he did nothing, but after a while he said to himself, 'Though I respect neither God nor men,
|
|-
|5
|Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
|this woman keeps pestering me, and so I will give her her revenge, so that she does not annoy me with her petitions.'"
|
|-
|6
|And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
|Then the Lord said, "Hear what the unjust judge has said.
|
|-
|7
|And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
|Won't God avenge his chosen, who cry day and night to him, as he stand with them?
|
|-
|8
|I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
|I tell you, he will avenge them quickly. But when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on the Earth?"
|
|-
|9
|And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
|And he spoke this parable to those who deceived themselves to be righteous
and hated their fellow man.
|-
|10
|Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
|Two men visited the temple to pray to God; one was a false teacher, the other a tax collector.
|
|-
|11
|The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
|The false teacher stood and prayed in reference to himself, "God, I thank you that I am not a sinner".
|
|-
|12
|I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
|"I go without food twice a week and I give a portion of my wealth to you".
|
|-
|13
|And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
|The tax collector who was a ways away, respectful before the Lord, beat on his chest and asked God for mercy as he was a sinner.
|
|-
|14
|I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
|I tell you that the tax collector went home righteous as he humbled himself before the Lord; whereas the false teacher, thinking he knows everything did not. For the humble will be praised and the arrogant shall be cut down to size.
|
|-
|15
|And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
|And infants were brought to Jesus in the hopes that he would touch them, but his disciples rebuked those that brought them when they saw it.
|
|-
|16
|But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
|But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the children come and do not prevent them from doing so because the kingdom of God belongs to them".
|
|-
|17
|Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
|"I say to you that whoever does not believe as wholeheartedly as a child will not enter the kingdom of God".
|
|-
|18
|And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
|A powerful man then asked Jesus how he can attain eternal life.
|
|-
|19
|And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
|Jesus responded, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except one, God the Father".
|
|-
|20
|Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
|"You know the commandments: Honor your father and mother. Do not kill, steal, lie, or be unfaithful to your spouse".
|
|-
|21
|And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
|The powerful man responded that he had done all these things ever since he was a young boy.
|
|-
|22
|Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
|When Jesus heard this he said to him, "You lack one thing, you need to rid yourself of the desire for earthly treasure to the point that if you were destitute you would still rejoice in the Lord. For doing so will give you the greatest treasure of all, the glory of heaven. Do this and follow my teachings."
|
|-
|23
|And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
|When the powerful man heard this he was saddened because he was materialistic and had a lot of wealth.
|
|-
|24
|And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
|And when Jesus saw that the man was sad he asked of him, "How shall those who value earthly wealth to the exclusion of all else enter into heaven"?
|
|-
|25
|For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
|"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a materialistic man to enter the kingdom of God".
|"materialistic and earthly" ... "materialistic" is superb, but is the "and earthly" justified?
|-
|26
|And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
|Those that were there wondered who could be saved then?
|
|-
|27
|And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
|And Jesus responded that things which are impossible with man are easily possible with God.
|
|-
|28
|Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
|
|
|-
|30
|Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
|
|
|-
|31
|Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
|
|
|-
|33
|And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
|
|
|-
|34
|And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
|
|
|-
|35
|And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:
|
|
|-
|36
|And hearing the multitude pass by, he asked what it meant.
|
|
|-
|37
|And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by.
|
|
|-
|38
|And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|
|
|-
|39
|And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|
|
|-
|40
|And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him,
|
|
|-
|41
|Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.
|
|
|-
|42
|And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
|
|
|-
|43
|And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 19==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
|
|
|-
|2
|And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
|
|
|-
|5
|And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
|
|
|-
|7
|And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
|
|
|-
|9
|And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
|
|
|-
|10
|For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
|
|
|-
|11
|And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
|
|
|-
|12
|He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
|
|
|-
|14
|But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
|
|
|-
|15
|And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
|
|
|-
|16
|Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
|
|
|-
|20
|And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
|
|
|-
|21
|For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
|
|
|-
|23
|Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
|
|
|-
|24
|And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
|
|
|-
|25
|(And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
|
|
|-
|26
|For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
|
|
|-
|27
|But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
|
|
|-
|28
|And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when he was come nigh to Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount called the mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples,
|
|
|-
|30
|Saying, Go ye into the village over against you; in the which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither.
|
|
|-
|31
|And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him.
|
|
|-
|32
|And they that were sent went their way, and found even as he had said unto them.
|
|
|-
|33
|And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?
|
|
|-
|34
|And they said, The Lord hath need of him.
|
|
|-
|35
|And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.
|
|
|-
|36
|And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.
|
|
|-
|37
|And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
|
|
|-
|38
|Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
|
|
|-
|39
|And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
|
|
|-
|40
|And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
|
|
|-
|41
|And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
|
|
|-
|42
|Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
|
|
|-
|43
|For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
|
|
|-
|44
|And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
|
|
|-
|45
|And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
|
|
|-
|46
|Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
|
|
|-
|47
|And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
|
|
|-
|48
|And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 20==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,
|
|
|-
|2
|And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?
|
|
|-
|3
|And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me:
|
|
|-
|4
|The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?
|
|
|-
|5
|And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?
|
|
|-
|6
|But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet.
|
|
|-
|7
|And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
|
|
|-
|10
|And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
|
|
|-
|11
|And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
|
|
|-
|12
|And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
|
|
|-
|13
|Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
|
|
|-
|14
|But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
|
|
|-
|15
|So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
|
|
|-
|16
|He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
|
|
|-
|18
|Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
|
|
|-
|19
|And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:
|
|
|-
|22
|Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
|
|
|-
|23
|But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
|
|
|-
|24
|Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
|
|
|-
|26
|And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
|
|
|-
|27
|Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
|
|
|-
|28
|Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
|
|
|-
|29
|There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.
|
|
|-
|30
|And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.
|
|
|-
|31
|And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.
|
|
|-
|32
|Last of all the woman died also.
|
|
|-
|33
|Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
|
|
|-
|34
|And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
|
|
|-
|35
|But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
|
|
|-
|36
|Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
|
|
|-
|37
|Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
|
|
|-
|38
|For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
|
|
|-
|39
|Then certain of the scribes answering said, Master, thou hast well said.
|
|
|-
|40
|And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.
|
|
|-
|41
|And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
|
|
|-
|42
|And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
|
|
|-
|43
|Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
|
|
|-
|44
|David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
|
|
|-
|45
|Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,
|
|
|-
|46
|Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
|
|
|-
|47
|Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 21==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
|
|
|-
|4
|For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
|
|
|-
|5
|And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
|
|
|-
|6
|As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
|
|
|-
|7
|And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
|
|
|-
|8
|And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
|
|
|-
|9
|But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
|
|
|-
|10
|Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
|
|
|-
|11
|And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
|
|
|-
|12
|But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
|
|
|-
|13
|And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
|
|
|-
|14
|Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
|
|
|-
|15
|For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
|
|
|-
|16
|And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
|
|
|-
|17
|And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
|
|
|-
|18
|But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
|
|
|-
|19
|In your patience possess ye your souls.
|
|
|-
|20
|And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
|
|
|-
|21
|Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
|
|
|-
|22
|For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|23
|But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
|
|
|-
|24
|And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|25
|And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
|
|
|-
|26
|Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
|
|
|-
|27
|And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
|
|
|-
|28
|And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
|
|
|-
|30
|When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
|
|
|-
|31
|So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
|
|
|-
|32
|Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|33
|Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
|
|
|-
|34
|And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
|
|
|-
|35
|For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
|
|
|-
|36
|Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
|
|
|-
|37
|And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
|
|
|-
|38
|And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 22==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
|
|
|-
|2
|And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
|
|
|-
|3
|Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
|
|
|-
|5
|And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
|
|
|-
|7
|Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
|
|
|-
|9
|And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
|
|
|-
|10
|And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
|
|
|-
|11
|And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
|
|
|-
|12
|And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
|
|
|-
|13
|And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
|
|
|-
|14
|And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
|
|
|-
|16
|For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
|
|
|-
|18
|For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
|
|
|-
|20
|Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
|
|
|-
|21
|But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
|
|
|-
|22
|And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
|
|
|-
|23
|And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
|
|
|-
|24
|And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
|
|
|-
|26
|But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
|
|
|-
|27
|For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
|
|
|-
|28
|Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
|
|
|-
|29
|And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
|
|
|-
|30
|That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
|
|
|-
|31
|And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
|
|
|-
|32
|But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
|
|
|-
|36
|Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
|
|
|-
|37
|For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
|
|
|-
|38
|And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
|
|
|-
|39
|And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.
|
|
|-
|40
|And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
|
|
|-
|41
|And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
|
|
|-
|42
|Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
|
|
|-
|43
|And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
|
|
|-
|44
|And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
|
|
|-
|45
|And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
|
|
|-
|46
|And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
|
|
|-
|47
|And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
|
|
|-
|48
|But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
|
|
|-
|49
|When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
|
|
|-
|50
|And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
|
|
|-
|51
|And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
|
|
|-
|52
|Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
|
|
|-
|53
|When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
|
|
|-
|54
|Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
|
|
|-
|55
|And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
|
|
|-
|56
|But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
|
|
|-
|57
|And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
|
|
|-
|58
|And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
|
|
|-
|59
|And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
|
|
|-
|60
|And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
|
|
|-
|61
|And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
|
|
|-
|62
|And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.
|
|
|-
|63
|And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him.
|
|
|-
|64
|And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?
|
|
|-
|65
|And many other things blasphemously spake they against him.
|
|
|-
|66
|And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
|
|
|-
|67
|Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
|
|
|-
|68
|And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.
|
|
|-
|69
|Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
|
|
|-
|70
|Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
|
|
|-
|71
|And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 23==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate.
|
|
|-
|2
|And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
|
|
|-
|3
|And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.
|
|
|-
|4
|Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.
|
|
|-
|5
|And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.
|
|
|-
|6
|When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether the man were a Galilaean.
|
|
|-
|7
|And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time.
|
|
|-
|8
|And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.
|
|
|-
|10
|And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him.
|
|
|-
|11
|And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.
|
|
|-
|13
|And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,
|
|
|-
|14
|Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
|
|
|-
|15
|No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.
|
|
|-
|16
|I will therefore chastise him, and release him.
|
|
|-
|17
|(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)
|
|
|-
|18
|And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
|
|
|-
|19
|(Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)
|
|
|-
|20
|Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
|
|
|-
|21
|But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.
|
|
|-
|23
|And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
|
|
|-
|24
|And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.
|
|
|-
|26
|And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.
|
|
|-
|27
|And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
|
|
|-
|28
|But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
|
|
|-
|29
|For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
|
|
|-
|30
|Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
|
|
|-
|31
|For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
|
|
|-
|32
|And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
|
|
|-
|33
|And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
|They divided his clothes, and gambled for them.
|The statement attributed to Jesus in this verse is likely not authentic.<ref>http://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/Bible_NT/Luke/luke_23-34.html</ref><ref>http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+23%3A34&version=NIV</ref> Proponents of the authenticity of these words claim they are necessary to fulfill a prophecy of [[Isaiah 51-58 (Translated)#Chapter 53|Isaiah 53:12]].
|-
|35
|And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
|
|
|-
|36
|And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
|
|
|-
|37
|And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
|
|
|-
|38
|And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
|
|
|-
|39
|And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
|
|
|-
|40
|But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
|
|
|-
|41
|And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
|
|
|-
|42
|And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
|
|
|-
|43
|And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
|
|
|-
|44
|And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
|
|
|-
|45
|And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
|
|
|-
|46
|And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
|
|
|-
|47
|Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
|
|
|-
|48
|And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
|
|
|-
|49
|And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
|
|
|-
|50
|And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counseller; and he was a good man, and a just:
|
|
|-
|51
|(The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
|
|
|-
|52
|This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
|
|
|-
|53
|And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
|
|
|-
|54
|And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
|
|
|-
|55
|And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
|
|
|-
|56
|And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 24==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
|
|
|-
|2
|And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
|
|
|-
|4
|And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
|
|
|-
|5
|And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
|
|
|-
|6
|He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
|
|
|-
|7
|Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
|
|
|-
|8
|And they remembered his words,
|
|
|-
|9
|And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
|
|
|-
|10
|It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
|
|
|-
|11
|And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
|
|
|-
|13
|And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
|
|
|-
|14
|And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
|
|
|-
|15
|And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
|
|
|-
|16
|But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
|
|
|-
|18
|And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass therein these days?
|
|
|-
|19
|And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
|
|
|-
|20
|And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
|
|
|-
|21
|But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
|
|
|-
|22
|Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
|
|
|-
|23
|And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
|
|
|-
|24
|And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
|
|
|-
|25
|Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
|
|
|-
|26
|Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
|
|
|-
|27
|And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
|
|
|-
|28
|And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
|
|
|-
|29
|But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
|
|
|-
|30
|And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
|
|
|-
|31
|And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
|
|
|-
|32
|And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
|
|
|-
|33
|And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
|
|
|-
|34
|Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
|
|
|-
|35
|And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
|
|
|-
|36
|And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
|
|
|-
|37
|But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
|
|
|-
|38
|And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
|
|
|-
|39
|Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
|
|
|-
|40
|And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
|
|
|-
|41
|And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
|
|
|-
|42
|And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
|
|
|-
|43
|And he took it, and did eat before them.
|
|
|-
|44
|And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
|
|
|-
|45
|Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
|
|
|-
|46
|And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
|
|
|-
|47
|And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
|
|
|-
|48
|And ye are witnesses of these things.
|
|
|-
|49
|And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
|
|
|-
|50
|And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
|
|
|-
|51
|And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
|
|
|-
|52
|And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
|
|
|-
|53
|And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
|
|
|}

<references/>

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Talk:Luke 17-24 (Translated)

2009-11-16T02:53:39Z

Ameda: /* Earthly */

Talk:Luke 17-24 (Translated)

2009-11-16T02:36:14Z

Ameda: Earthly

Luke 17-24 (Translated)

2009-11-16T01:10:34Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 18 */

==Chapter 17==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
|Then he said to the disciples, "It is necessary that terrible things will happen, but woe to him who causes them!
|
|-
|2
|It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
|It would be better for him if a large stone were hung on his neck and he was thrown into the sea, than that he should harm one of these little ones.
|
|-
|3
|Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
|Remember always, that if another should harm you, you should rebuke him, and if he repents, you should forgive him.
|
|-
|4
|And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
|And if he harms you seven times in one day, and seven times in a day turns to you and repents, you should forgive him."
|
|-
|5
|And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
|The apostles asked the Lord to increase their faith.
|
|-
|6
|And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
|And the Lord said, "If your faith was as a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this Mulberry tree, 'Get up from your roots, and plant yourself in the sea,' and it would obey you."
|Sycamine=mulberry See Jamieson, Fausset & Brown and Adam Clarke
|-
|7
|But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
|But which of you will say to a servant, when he has finished his tasks for the day, go and rest well and eat?
|
|-
|8
|And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
|Rather than prepare my dinner and wait upon me until I have finished; only then may you go and eat.
|
|-
|9
|Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
|Do you thank the servant because he did as you ordered him? I think not.
|
|-
|10
|So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
|So shall you, when you have done all of the things you have been told to do, declare your dedication, and that you have done what you must do."
|
|-
|11
|And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
|Later, on His way to Jerusalem, He passed through Samaria and Galilee.
|
|-
|12
|And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
|As he went into a certain village, he was met by ten men with leprosy, who had been standing at a distance.
|
|-
|13
|And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
|They called to him, and said 'Jesus! Master! Have mercy on us.'
|
|-
|14
|And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
|When He saw them, He said 'Go show yourselves to the priests. And, as they obeyed him, they were healed.
|
|-
|15
|And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
|One of them, seeing he was healed, went back, loudly giving praise to God.
|
|-
|16
|And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
|The man, a Samaritan, fell down at Jesus' feet and thanked Him.
|
|-
|17
|And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
|Jesus said to him "Weren't ten healed? Where are the other nine?
|
|-
|18
|There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
|Only this man, a Samaritan, came back to give praise and glory to God."
|
|-
|19
|And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
|Jesus said to the man, "Get up, and go. Your faith has healed you."
|
|-
|20
|And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
|When the Pharisees demanded that he tell them when the kingdom of God would come, he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that will be easy to see.
|
|-
|21
|Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
|Nor will people say, 'Here it is! Or there it is! Look amongst yourselves for the kingdom of God."
|
|-
|22
|And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
|Then he said to his students, "The days are coming, when you will all desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it.
|
|-
|23
|And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
|And people will tell you, 'Here he is! Or there he is!' Don't go after them; don't follow them.
|
|-
|24
|For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
|For just as the lightning flashes across the entire sky, that is how the Son of man will be in his day.
|
|-
|25
|But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
|First, though, he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation.
|
|-
|26
|And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
|As it was back in Noah's days, that's how it will be in the days of the Son of man.
|
|-
|27
|They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
|They ate and drank, they married and were given in marriage--right up to the time they went into the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed everyone.
|
|-
|28
|Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
|
|
|-
|29
|But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
|
|
|-
|30
|Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
|
|
|-
|31
|In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
|
|
|-
|32
|Remember Lot's wife.
|
|
|-
|33
|Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
|
|
|-
|34
|I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
|
|
|-
|35
|Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
|
|
|-
|36
|Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
|
|
|-
|37
|And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 18==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
|And to teach them that man ought to pray and not faint, he told them this parable:
|
|-
|2
|Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
|"In a city, there was a judge who did not respect God or men,
|
|-
|3
|And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
|and a widow, and she came to the judge said, 'Give me revenge upon my advesary.'
|
|-
|4
|And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
|For some time he did nothing, but after a while he said to himself, 'Though I respect neither God nor men,
|
|-
|5
|Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
|this woman keeps pestering me, and so I will give her her revenge, so that she does not annoy me with her petitions.'"
|
|-
|6
|And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
|Then the Lord said, "Hear what the unjust judge has said.
|
|-
|7
|And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
|Won't God avenge his chosen, who cry day and night to him, as he stand with them?
|
|-
|8
|I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
|I tell you, he will avenge them quickly. But when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on the Earth?"
|
|-
|9
|And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
|And he spoke this parable to those who deceived themselves to be righteous
and hated their fellow man.
|-
|10
|Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
|Two men visited the temple to pray to God; one was a false teacher, the other a tax collector.
|
|-
|11
|The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
|The false teacher stood and prayed in reference to himself, "God, I thank you that I am not a sinner".
|
|-
|12
|I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
|"I go without food twice a week and I give a portion of my wealth to you".
|
|-
|13
|And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
|The tax collector who was a ways away, respectful before the Lord, beat on his chest and asked God for mercy as he was a sinner.
|
|-
|14
|I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
|I tell you that the tax collector went home righteous as he humbled himself before the Lord; whereas the false teacher, thinking he knows everything did not. For the humble will be praised and the arrogant shall be cut down to size.
|
|-
|15
|And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
|And infants were brought to Jesus in the hopes that he would touch them, but his disciples rebuked those that brought them when they saw it.
|
|-
|16
|But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
|But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the children come and do not prevent them from doing so because the kingdom of God belongs to them".
|
|-
|17
|Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
|"I say to you that whoever does not believe as wholeheartedly as a child will not enter the kingdom of God".
|
|-
|18
|And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
|A powerful man then asked Jesus how he can attain eternal life.
|
|-
|19
|And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
|Jesus responded, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except one, God the Father".
|
|-
|20
|Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
|"You know the commandments: Honor your father and mother. Do not kill, steal, lie, or be unfaithful to your spouse".
|
|-
|21
|And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
|The powerful man responded that he had done all these things ever since he was a young boy.
|
|-
|22
|Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
|When Jesus heard this he said to him, "You lack one thing, you need to rid yourself of the desire for earthly treasure to the point that if you were destitute you would still rejoice in the Lord. For doing so will give you the greatest treasure of all, the glory of heaven. Do this and follow my teachings."
|
|-
|23
|And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
|When the powerful man heard this he was saddened because he was materialistic and had a lot of wealth.
|
|-
|24
|And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
|And when Jesus saw that the man was sad he asked of him, "How shall those who value earthly wealth to the exclusion of all else enter into heaven"?
|
|-
|25
|For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
|"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a materialistic and earthly man to enter the kingdom of God".
|
|-
|26
|And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
|Those that were there wondered who could be saved then?
|
|-
|27
|And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
|And Jesus responded that things which are impossible with man are easily possible with God.
|
|-
|28
|Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
|
|
|-
|30
|Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
|
|
|-
|31
|Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
|
|
|-
|33
|And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
|
|
|-
|34
|And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
|
|
|-
|35
|And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:
|
|
|-
|36
|And hearing the multitude pass by, he asked what it meant.
|
|
|-
|37
|And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by.
|
|
|-
|38
|And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|
|
|-
|39
|And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|
|
|-
|40
|And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him,
|
|
|-
|41
|Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.
|
|
|-
|42
|And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
|
|
|-
|43
|And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 19==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
|
|
|-
|2
|And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
|
|
|-
|5
|And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
|
|
|-
|7
|And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
|
|
|-
|9
|And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
|
|
|-
|10
|For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
|
|
|-
|11
|And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
|
|
|-
|12
|He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
|
|
|-
|14
|But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
|
|
|-
|15
|And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
|
|
|-
|16
|Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
|
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|-
|18
|And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
|
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|-
|19
|And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
|
|
|-
|20
|And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
|
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|-
|21
|For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
|
|
|-
|23
|Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
|
|
|-
|24
|And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
|
|
|-
|25
|(And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
|
|
|-
|26
|For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
|
|
|-
|27
|But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
|
|
|-
|28
|And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when he was come nigh to Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount called the mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples,
|
|
|-
|30
|Saying, Go ye into the village over against you; in the which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither.
|
|
|-
|31
|And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him.
|
|
|-
|32
|And they that were sent went their way, and found even as he had said unto them.
|
|
|-
|33
|And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?
|
|
|-
|34
|And they said, The Lord hath need of him.
|
|
|-
|35
|And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.
|
|
|-
|36
|And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.
|
|
|-
|37
|And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
|
|
|-
|38
|Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
|
|
|-
|39
|And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
|
|
|-
|40
|And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
|
|
|-
|41
|And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
|
|
|-
|42
|Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
|
|
|-
|43
|For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
|
|
|-
|44
|And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
|
|
|-
|45
|And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
|
|
|-
|46
|Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
|
|
|-
|47
|And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
|
|
|-
|48
|And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 20==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,
|
|
|-
|2
|And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?
|
|
|-
|3
|And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me:
|
|
|-
|4
|The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?
|
|
|-
|5
|And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?
|
|
|-
|6
|But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet.
|
|
|-
|7
|And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
|
|
|-
|10
|And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
|
|
|-
|11
|And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
|
|
|-
|12
|And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
|
|
|-
|13
|Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
|
|
|-
|14
|But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
|
|
|-
|15
|So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
|
|
|-
|16
|He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
|
|
|-
|18
|Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
|
|
|-
|19
|And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:
|
|
|-
|22
|Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
|
|
|-
|23
|But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
|
|
|-
|24
|Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
|
|
|-
|26
|And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
|
|
|-
|27
|Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
|
|
|-
|28
|Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
|
|
|-
|29
|There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.
|
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|-
|30
|And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.
|
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|-
|31
|And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.
|
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|-
|32
|Last of all the woman died also.
|
|
|-
|33
|Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
|
|
|-
|34
|And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
|
|
|-
|35
|But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
|
|
|-
|36
|Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
|
|
|-
|37
|Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
|
|
|-
|38
|For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
|
|
|-
|39
|Then certain of the scribes answering said, Master, thou hast well said.
|
|
|-
|40
|And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.
|
|
|-
|41
|And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
|
|
|-
|42
|And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
|
|
|-
|43
|Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
|
|
|-
|44
|David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
|
|
|-
|45
|Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,
|
|
|-
|46
|Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
|
|
|-
|47
|Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 21==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
|
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|-
|4
|For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
|
|
|-
|5
|And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
|
|
|-
|6
|As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
|
|
|-
|7
|And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
|
|
|-
|8
|And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
|
|
|-
|9
|But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
|
|
|-
|10
|Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
|
|
|-
|11
|And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
|
|
|-
|12
|But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
|
|
|-
|13
|And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
|
|
|-
|14
|Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
|
|
|-
|15
|For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
|
|
|-
|16
|And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
|
|
|-
|17
|And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
|
|
|-
|18
|But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
|
|
|-
|19
|In your patience possess ye your souls.
|
|
|-
|20
|And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
|
|
|-
|21
|Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
|
|
|-
|22
|For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|23
|But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
|
|
|-
|24
|And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|25
|And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
|
|
|-
|26
|Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
|
|
|-
|27
|And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
|
|
|-
|28
|And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
|
|
|-
|30
|When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
|
|
|-
|31
|So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
|
|
|-
|32
|Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|33
|Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
|
|
|-
|34
|And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
|
|
|-
|35
|For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
|
|
|-
|36
|Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
|
|
|-
|37
|And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
|
|
|-
|38
|And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 22==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
|
|
|-
|2
|And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
|
|
|-
|3
|Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
|
|
|-
|5
|And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
|
|
|-
|7
|Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
|
|
|-
|9
|And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
|
|
|-
|10
|And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
|
|
|-
|11
|And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
|
|
|-
|12
|And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
|
|
|-
|13
|And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
|
|
|-
|14
|And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
|
|
|-
|16
|For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
|
|
|-
|18
|For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
|
|
|-
|20
|Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
|
|
|-
|21
|But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
|
|
|-
|22
|And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
|
|
|-
|23
|And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
|
|
|-
|24
|And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
|
|
|-
|26
|But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
|
|
|-
|27
|For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
|
|
|-
|28
|Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
|
|
|-
|29
|And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
|
|
|-
|30
|That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
|
|
|-
|31
|And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
|
|
|-
|32
|But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
|
|
|-
|36
|Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
|
|
|-
|37
|For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
|
|
|-
|38
|And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
|
|
|-
|39
|And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.
|
|
|-
|40
|And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
|
|
|-
|41
|And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
|
|
|-
|42
|Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
|
|
|-
|43
|And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
|
|
|-
|44
|And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
|
|
|-
|45
|And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
|
|
|-
|46
|And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
|
|
|-
|47
|And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
|
|
|-
|48
|But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
|
|
|-
|49
|When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
|
|
|-
|50
|And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
|
|
|-
|51
|And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
|
|
|-
|52
|Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
|
|
|-
|53
|When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
|
|
|-
|54
|Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
|
|
|-
|55
|And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
|
|
|-
|56
|But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
|
|
|-
|57
|And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
|
|
|-
|58
|And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
|
|
|-
|59
|And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
|
|
|-
|60
|And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
|
|
|-
|61
|And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
|
|
|-
|62
|And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.
|
|
|-
|63
|And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him.
|
|
|-
|64
|And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?
|
|
|-
|65
|And many other things blasphemously spake they against him.
|
|
|-
|66
|And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
|
|
|-
|67
|Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
|
|
|-
|68
|And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.
|
|
|-
|69
|Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
|
|
|-
|70
|Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
|
|
|-
|71
|And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 23==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate.
|
|
|-
|2
|And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
|
|
|-
|3
|And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.
|
|
|-
|4
|Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.
|
|
|-
|5
|And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.
|
|
|-
|6
|When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether the man were a Galilaean.
|
|
|-
|7
|And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time.
|
|
|-
|8
|And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.
|
|
|-
|10
|And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him.
|
|
|-
|11
|And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.
|
|
|-
|13
|And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,
|
|
|-
|14
|Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
|
|
|-
|15
|No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.
|
|
|-
|16
|I will therefore chastise him, and release him.
|
|
|-
|17
|(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)
|
|
|-
|18
|And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
|
|
|-
|19
|(Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)
|
|
|-
|20
|Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
|
|
|-
|21
|But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.
|
|
|-
|23
|And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
|
|
|-
|24
|And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.
|
|
|-
|26
|And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.
|
|
|-
|27
|And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
|
|
|-
|28
|But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
|
|
|-
|29
|For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
|
|
|-
|30
|Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
|
|
|-
|31
|For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
|
|
|-
|32
|And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
|
|
|-
|33
|And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
|They divided his clothes, and gambled for them.
|The statement attributed to Jesus in this verse is likely not authentic.<ref>http://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/Bible_NT/Luke/luke_23-34.html</ref><ref>http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+23%3A34&version=NIV</ref> Proponents of the authenticity of these words claim they are necessary to fulfill a prophecy of [[Isaiah 51-58 (Translated)#Chapter 53|Isaiah 53:12]].
|-
|35
|And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
|
|
|-
|36
|And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
|
|
|-
|37
|And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
|
|
|-
|38
|And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
|
|
|-
|39
|And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
|
|
|-
|40
|But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
|
|
|-
|41
|And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
|
|
|-
|42
|And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
|
|
|-
|43
|And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
|
|
|-
|44
|And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
|
|
|-
|45
|And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
|
|
|-
|46
|And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
|
|
|-
|47
|Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
|
|
|-
|48
|And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
|
|
|-
|49
|And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
|
|
|-
|50
|And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counseller; and he was a good man, and a just:
|
|
|-
|51
|(The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
|
|
|-
|52
|This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
|
|
|-
|53
|And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
|
|
|-
|54
|And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
|
|
|-
|55
|And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
|
|
|-
|56
|And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 24==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
|
|
|-
|2
|And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
|
|
|-
|4
|And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
|
|
|-
|5
|And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
|
|
|-
|6
|He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
|
|
|-
|7
|Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
|
|
|-
|8
|And they remembered his words,
|
|
|-
|9
|And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
|
|
|-
|10
|It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
|
|
|-
|11
|And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
|
|
|-
|13
|And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
|
|
|-
|14
|And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
|
|
|-
|15
|And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
|
|
|-
|16
|But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
|
|
|-
|18
|And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass therein these days?
|
|
|-
|19
|And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
|
|
|-
|20
|And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
|
|
|-
|21
|But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
|
|
|-
|22
|Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
|
|
|-
|23
|And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
|
|
|-
|24
|And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
|
|
|-
|25
|Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
|
|
|-
|26
|Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
|
|
|-
|27
|And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
|
|
|-
|28
|And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
|
|
|-
|29
|But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
|
|
|-
|30
|And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
|
|
|-
|31
|And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
|
|
|-
|32
|And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
|
|
|-
|33
|And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
|
|
|-
|34
|Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
|
|
|-
|35
|And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
|
|
|-
|36
|And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
|
|
|-
|37
|But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
|
|
|-
|38
|And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
|
|
|-
|39
|Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
|
|
|-
|40
|And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
|
|
|-
|41
|And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
|
|
|-
|42
|And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
|
|
|-
|43
|And he took it, and did eat before them.
|
|
|-
|44
|And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
|
|
|-
|45
|Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
|
|
|-
|46
|And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
|
|
|-
|47
|And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
|
|
|-
|48
|And ye are witnesses of these things.
|
|
|-
|49
|And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
|
|
|-
|50
|And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
|
|
|-
|51
|And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
|
|
|-
|52
|And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
|
|
|-
|53
|And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
|
|
|}

<references/>

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Luke 17-24 (Translated)

2009-11-16T00:54:36Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 18 */ 22-27

==Chapter 17==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
|Then he said to the disciples, "It is necessary that terrible things will happen, but woe to him who causes them!
|
|-
|2
|It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
|It would be better for him if a large stone were hung on his neck and he was thrown into the sea, than that he should harm one of these little ones.
|
|-
|3
|Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
|Remember always, that if another should harm you, you should rebuke him, and if he repents, you should forgive him.
|
|-
|4
|And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
|And if he harms you seven times in one day, and seven times in a day turns to you and repents, you should forgive him."
|
|-
|5
|And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
|The apostles asked the Lord to increase their faith.
|
|-
|6
|And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
|And the Lord said, "If your faith was as a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this Mulberry tree, 'Get up from your roots, and plant yourself in the sea,' and it would obey you."
|Sycamine=mulberry See Jamieson, Fausset & Brown and Adam Clarke
|-
|7
|But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
|But which of you will say to a servant, when he has finished his tasks for the day, go and rest well and eat?
|
|-
|8
|And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
|Rather than prepare my dinner and wait upon me until I have finished; only then may you go and eat.
|
|-
|9
|Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
|Do you thank the servant because he did as you ordered him? I think not.
|
|-
|10
|So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
|So shall you, when you have done all of the things you have been told to do, declare your dedication, and that you have done what you must do."
|
|-
|11
|And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
|Later, on His way to Jerusalem, He passed through Samaria and Galilee.
|
|-
|12
|And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
|As he went into a certain village, he was met by ten men with leprosy, who had been standing at a distance.
|
|-
|13
|And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
|They called to him, and said 'Jesus! Master! Have mercy on us.'
|
|-
|14
|And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
|When He saw them, He said 'Go show yourselves to the priests. And, as they obeyed him, they were healed.
|
|-
|15
|And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
|One of them, seeing he was healed, went back, loudly giving praise to God.
|
|-
|16
|And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
|The man, a Samaritan, fell down at Jesus' feet and thanked Him.
|
|-
|17
|And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
|Jesus said to him "Weren't ten healed? Where are the other nine?
|
|-
|18
|There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
|Only this man, a Samaritan, came back to give praise and glory to God."
|
|-
|19
|And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
|Jesus said to the man, "Get up, and go. Your faith has healed you."
|
|-
|20
|And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
|When the Pharisees demanded that he tell them when the kingdom of God would come, he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that will be easy to see.
|
|-
|21
|Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
|Nor will people say, 'Here it is! Or there it is! Look amongst yourselves for the kingdom of God."
|
|-
|22
|And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
|Then he said to his students, "The days are coming, when you will all desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it.
|
|-
|23
|And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
|And people will tell you, 'Here he is! Or there he is!' Don't go after them; don't follow them.
|
|-
|24
|For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
|For just as the lightning flashes across the entire sky, that is how the Son of man will be in his day.
|
|-
|25
|But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
|First, though, he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation.
|
|-
|26
|And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
|As it was back in Noah's days, that's how it will be in the days of the Son of man.
|
|-
|27
|They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
|They ate and drank, they married and were given in marriage--right up to the time they went into the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed everyone.
|
|-
|28
|Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
|
|
|-
|29
|But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
|
|
|-
|30
|Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
|
|
|-
|31
|In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
|
|
|-
|32
|Remember Lot's wife.
|
|
|-
|33
|Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
|
|
|-
|34
|I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
|
|
|-
|35
|Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
|
|
|-
|36
|Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
|
|
|-
|37
|And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 18==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
|And to teach them that man ought to pray and not faint, he told them this parable:
|
|-
|2
|Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
|"In a city, there was a judge who did not respect God or men,
|
|-
|3
|And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
|and a widow, and she came to the judge said, 'Give me revenge upon my advesary.'
|
|-
|4
|And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
|For some time he did nothing, but after a while he said to himself, 'Though I respect neither God nor men,
|
|-
|5
|Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
|this woman keeps pestering me, and so I will give her her revenge, so that she does not annoy me with her petitions.'"
|
|-
|6
|And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
|Then the Lord said, "Hear what the unjust judge has said.
|
|-
|7
|And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
|Won't God avenge his chosen, who cry day and night to him, as he stand with them?
|
|-
|8
|I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
|I tell you, he will avenge them quickly. But when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on the Earth?"
|
|-
|9
|And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
|And he spoke this parable to those who deceived themselves to be righteous
and hated their fellow man.
|-
|10
|Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
|Two men visited the temple to pray to God; one was a false teacher, the other a tax collector.
|
|-
|11
|The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
|The false teacher stood and prayed in reference to himself, "God, I thank you that I am not a sinner".
|
|-
|12
|I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
|"I go without food twice a week and I give a portion of my wealth to you".
|
|-
|13
|And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
|The tax collector who was a ways away, respectful before the Lord, beat on his chest and asked God for mercy as he was a sinner.
|
|-
|14
|I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
|I tell you that the tax collector went home righteous as he humbled himself before the Lord; whereas the false teacher, thinking he knows everything did not. For the humble will be praised and the arrogant shall be cut down to size.
|
|-
|15
|And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
|And infants were brought to Jesus in the hopes that he would touch them, but his disciples rebuked those that brought them when they saw it.
|
|-
|16
|But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
|But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the children come and do not prevent them from doing so because the kingdom of God belongs to them".
|
|-
|17
|Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
|"I say to you that whoever does not believe as wholeheartedly as a child will not enter the kingdom of God".
|
|-
|18
|And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
|A powerful man then asked Jesus how he can attain eternal life.
|
|-
|19
|And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
|Jesus responded, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except one, God the Father".
|
|-
|20
|Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
|"You know the commandments: Honor your father and mother. Do not kill, steal, lie, or be unfaithful to your spouse".
|
|-
|21
|And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
|The powerful man responded that he had done all these things ever since he was a young boy.
|
|-
|22
|Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
|When Jesus heard this he said to him, "You lack one thing, you need to rid yourself of the desire for earthly treasure to the point that if you were destitute you would still rejoice in the Lord. For doing so will give you the greatest treasure of all, the glory of heaven. Do this and follow my teachings."
|
|-
|23
|And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
|When the powerful man heard this he was saddened because was materialistic and had a lot of wealth.
|
|-
|24
|And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
|And when Jesus saw that the man was sad he asked of him, "How shall those who value earthly wealth to the exclusion of all else enter into heaven"?
|
|-
|25
|For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
|"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a materialistic and earthly man to enter the kingdom of God.
|
|-
|26
|And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
|Those that were there wondered who could be saved then?
|
|-
|27
|And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
|And Jesus responded that things which are impossible with man are easily possible with God.
|
|-
|28
|Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
|
|
|-
|30
|Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
|
|
|-
|31
|Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
|
|
|-
|33
|And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
|
|
|-
|34
|And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
|
|
|-
|35
|And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:
|
|
|-
|36
|And hearing the multitude pass by, he asked what it meant.
|
|
|-
|37
|And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by.
|
|
|-
|38
|And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|
|
|-
|39
|And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|
|
|-
|40
|And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him,
|
|
|-
|41
|Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.
|
|
|-
|42
|And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
|
|
|-
|43
|And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 19==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
|
|
|-
|2
|And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
|
|
|-
|5
|And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
|
|
|-
|7
|And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
|
|
|-
|9
|And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
|
|
|-
|10
|For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
|
|
|-
|11
|And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
|
|
|-
|12
|He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
|
|
|-
|14
|But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
|
|
|-
|15
|And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
|
|
|-
|16
|Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
|
|
|-
|20
|And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
|
|
|-
|21
|For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
|
|
|-
|23
|Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
|
|
|-
|24
|And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
|
|
|-
|25
|(And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
|
|
|-
|26
|For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
|
|
|-
|27
|But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
|
|
|-
|28
|And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when he was come nigh to Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount called the mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples,
|
|
|-
|30
|Saying, Go ye into the village over against you; in the which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither.
|
|
|-
|31
|And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him.
|
|
|-
|32
|And they that were sent went their way, and found even as he had said unto them.
|
|
|-
|33
|And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?
|
|
|-
|34
|And they said, The Lord hath need of him.
|
|
|-
|35
|And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.
|
|
|-
|36
|And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.
|
|
|-
|37
|And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
|
|
|-
|38
|Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
|
|
|-
|39
|And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
|
|
|-
|40
|And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
|
|
|-
|41
|And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
|
|
|-
|42
|Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
|
|
|-
|43
|For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
|
|
|-
|44
|And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
|
|
|-
|45
|And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
|
|
|-
|46
|Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
|
|
|-
|47
|And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
|
|
|-
|48
|And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 20==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,
|
|
|-
|2
|And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?
|
|
|-
|3
|And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me:
|
|
|-
|4
|The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?
|
|
|-
|5
|And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?
|
|
|-
|6
|But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet.
|
|
|-
|7
|And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
|
|
|-
|10
|And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
|
|
|-
|11
|And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
|
|
|-
|12
|And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
|
|
|-
|13
|Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
|
|
|-
|14
|But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
|
|
|-
|15
|So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
|
|
|-
|16
|He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
|
|
|-
|18
|Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
|
|
|-
|19
|And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:
|
|
|-
|22
|Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
|
|
|-
|23
|But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
|
|
|-
|24
|Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
|
|
|-
|26
|And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
|
|
|-
|27
|Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
|
|
|-
|28
|Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
|
|
|-
|29
|There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.
|
|
|-
|30
|And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.
|
|
|-
|31
|And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.
|
|
|-
|32
|Last of all the woman died also.
|
|
|-
|33
|Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
|
|
|-
|34
|And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
|
|
|-
|35
|But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
|
|
|-
|36
|Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
|
|
|-
|37
|Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
|
|
|-
|38
|For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
|
|
|-
|39
|Then certain of the scribes answering said, Master, thou hast well said.
|
|
|-
|40
|And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.
|
|
|-
|41
|And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
|
|
|-
|42
|And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
|
|
|-
|43
|Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
|
|
|-
|44
|David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
|
|
|-
|45
|Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,
|
|
|-
|46
|Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
|
|
|-
|47
|Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 21==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
|
|
|-
|2
|And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
|
|
|-
|4
|For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
|
|
|-
|5
|And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
|
|
|-
|6
|As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
|
|
|-
|7
|And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
|
|
|-
|8
|And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
|
|
|-
|9
|But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
|
|
|-
|10
|Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
|
|
|-
|11
|And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
|
|
|-
|12
|But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
|
|
|-
|13
|And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
|
|
|-
|14
|Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
|
|
|-
|15
|For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
|
|
|-
|16
|And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
|
|
|-
|17
|And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
|
|
|-
|18
|But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
|
|
|-
|19
|In your patience possess ye your souls.
|
|
|-
|20
|And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
|
|
|-
|21
|Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
|
|
|-
|22
|For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|23
|But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
|
|
|-
|24
|And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|25
|And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
|
|
|-
|26
|Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
|
|
|-
|27
|And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
|
|
|-
|28
|And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
|
|
|-
|30
|When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
|
|
|-
|31
|So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
|
|
|-
|32
|Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
|
|
|-
|33
|Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
|
|
|-
|34
|And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
|
|
|-
|35
|For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
|
|
|-
|36
|Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
|
|
|-
|37
|And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
|
|
|-
|38
|And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 22==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
|
|
|-
|2
|And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
|
|
|-
|3
|Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
|
|
|-
|5
|And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
|
|
|-
|7
|Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
|
|
|-
|8
|And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
|
|
|-
|9
|And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
|
|
|-
|10
|And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
|
|
|-
|11
|And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
|
|
|-
|12
|And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
|
|
|-
|13
|And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
|
|
|-
|14
|And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
|
|
|-
|15
|And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
|
|
|-
|16
|For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
|
|
|-
|18
|For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
|
|
|-
|20
|Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
|
|
|-
|21
|But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
|
|
|-
|22
|And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
|
|
|-
|23
|And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
|
|
|-
|24
|And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
|
|
|-
|26
|But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
|
|
|-
|27
|For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
|
|
|-
|28
|Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
|
|
|-
|29
|And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
|
|
|-
|30
|That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
|
|
|-
|31
|And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
|
|
|-
|32
|But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
|
|
|-
|36
|Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
|
|
|-
|37
|For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
|
|
|-
|38
|And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
|
|
|-
|39
|And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.
|
|
|-
|40
|And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
|
|
|-
|41
|And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
|
|
|-
|42
|Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
|
|
|-
|43
|And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
|
|
|-
|44
|And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
|
|
|-
|45
|And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
|
|
|-
|46
|And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
|
|
|-
|47
|And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
|
|
|-
|48
|But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
|
|
|-
|49
|When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
|
|
|-
|50
|And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
|
|
|-
|51
|And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
|
|
|-
|52
|Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
|
|
|-
|53
|When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
|
|
|-
|54
|Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
|
|
|-
|55
|And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
|
|
|-
|56
|But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
|
|
|-
|57
|And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
|
|
|-
|58
|And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
|
|
|-
|59
|And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
|
|
|-
|60
|And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
|
|
|-
|61
|And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
|
|
|-
|62
|And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.
|
|
|-
|63
|And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him.
|
|
|-
|64
|And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?
|
|
|-
|65
|And many other things blasphemously spake they against him.
|
|
|-
|66
|And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
|
|
|-
|67
|Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
|
|
|-
|68
|And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.
|
|
|-
|69
|Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
|
|
|-
|70
|Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
|
|
|-
|71
|And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 23==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate.
|
|
|-
|2
|And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
|
|
|-
|3
|And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.
|
|
|-
|4
|Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.
|
|
|-
|5
|And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.
|
|
|-
|6
|When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether the man were a Galilaean.
|
|
|-
|7
|And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time.
|
|
|-
|8
|And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.
|
|
|-
|10
|And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him.
|
|
|-
|11
|And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.
|
|
|-
|13
|And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,
|
|
|-
|14
|Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
|
|
|-
|15
|No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.
|
|
|-
|16
|I will therefore chastise him, and release him.
|
|
|-
|17
|(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)
|
|
|-
|18
|And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
|
|
|-
|19
|(Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)
|
|
|-
|20
|Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
|
|
|-
|21
|But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.
|
|
|-
|23
|And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
|
|
|-
|24
|And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.
|
|
|-
|26
|And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.
|
|
|-
|27
|And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
|
|
|-
|28
|But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
|
|
|-
|29
|For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
|
|
|-
|30
|Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
|
|
|-
|31
|For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
|
|
|-
|32
|And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
|
|
|-
|33
|And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
|They divided his clothes, and gambled for them.
|The statement attributed to Jesus in this verse is likely not authentic.<ref>http://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/Bible_NT/Luke/luke_23-34.html</ref><ref>http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+23%3A34&version=NIV</ref> Proponents of the authenticity of these words claim they are necessary to fulfill a prophecy of [[Isaiah 51-58 (Translated)#Chapter 53|Isaiah 53:12]].
|-
|35
|And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
|
|
|-
|36
|And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
|
|
|-
|37
|And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
|
|
|-
|38
|And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
|
|
|-
|39
|And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
|
|
|-
|40
|But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
|
|
|-
|41
|And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
|
|
|-
|42
|And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
|
|
|-
|43
|And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
|
|
|-
|44
|And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
|
|
|-
|45
|And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
|
|
|-
|46
|And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
|
|
|-
|47
|Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
|
|
|-
|48
|And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
|
|
|-
|49
|And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
|
|
|-
|50
|And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counseller; and he was a good man, and a just:
|
|
|-
|51
|(The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
|
|
|-
|52
|This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
|
|
|-
|53
|And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
|
|
|-
|54
|And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
|
|
|-
|55
|And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
|
|
|-
|56
|And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 24==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
|
|
|-
|2
|And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
|
|
|-
|4
|And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
|
|
|-
|5
|And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
|
|
|-
|6
|He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
|
|
|-
|7
|Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
|
|
|-
|8
|And they remembered his words,
|
|
|-
|9
|And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
|
|
|-
|10
|It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
|
|
|-
|11
|And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
|
|
|-
|13
|And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
|
|
|-
|14
|And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
|
|
|-
|15
|And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
|
|
|-
|16
|But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
|
|
|-
|18
|And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass therein these days?
|
|
|-
|19
|And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
|
|
|-
|20
|And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
|
|
|-
|21
|But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
|
|
|-
|22
|Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
|
|
|-
|23
|And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
|
|
|-
|24
|And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
|
|
|-
|25
|Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
|
|
|-
|26
|Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
|
|
|-
|27
|And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
|
|
|-
|28
|And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
|
|
|-
|29
|But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
|
|
|-
|30
|And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
|
|
|-
|31
|And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
|
|
|-
|32
|And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
|
|
|-
|33
|And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
|
|
|-
|34
|Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
|
|
|-
|35
|And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
|
|
|-
|36
|And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
|
|
|-
|37
|But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
|
|
|-
|38
|And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
|
|
|-
|39
|Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
|
|
|-
|40
|And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
|
|
|-
|41
|And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
|
|
|-
|42
|And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
|
|
|-
|43
|And he took it, and did eat before them.
|
|
|-
|44
|And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
|
|
|-
|45
|Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
|
|
|-
|46
|And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
|
|
|-
|47
|And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
|
|
|-
|48
|And ye are witnesses of these things.
|
|
|-
|49
|And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
|
|
|-
|50
|And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
|
|
|-
|51
|And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
|
|
|-
|52
|And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
|
|
|-
|53
|And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
|
|
|}

<references/>

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]

Luke 17-24 (Translated)

2009-11-16T00:38:38Z

Ameda: /* Chapter 18 */

==Chapter 17==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
|Then he said to the disciples, "It is necessary that terrible things will happen, but woe to him who causes them!
|
|-
|2
|It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
|It would be better for him if a large stone were hung on his neck and he was thrown into the sea, than that he should harm one of these little ones.
|
|-
|3
|Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
|Remember always, that if another should harm you, you should rebuke him, and if he repents, you should forgive him.
|
|-
|4
|And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
|And if he harms you seven times in one day, and seven times in a day turns to you and repents, you should forgive him."
|
|-
|5
|And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
|The apostles asked the Lord to increase their faith.
|
|-
|6
|And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
|And the Lord said, "If your faith was as a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this Mulberry tree, 'Get up from your roots, and plant yourself in the sea,' and it would obey you."
|Sycamine=mulberry See Jamieson, Fausset & Brown and Adam Clarke
|-
|7
|But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
|But which of you will say to a servant, when he has finished his tasks for the day, go and rest well and eat?
|
|-
|8
|And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
|Rather than prepare my dinner and wait upon me until I have finished; only then may you go and eat.
|
|-
|9
|Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
|Do you thank the servant because he did as you ordered him? I think not.
|
|-
|10
|So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
|So shall you, when you have done all of the things you have been told to do, declare your dedication, and that you have done what you must do."
|
|-
|11
|And it came to pass, as he went to Jerusalem, that he passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee.
|Later, on His way to Jerusalem, He passed through Samaria and Galilee.
|
|-
|12
|And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
|As he went into a certain village, he was met by ten men with leprosy, who had been standing at a distance.
|
|-
|13
|And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
|They called to him, and said 'Jesus! Master! Have mercy on us.'
|
|-
|14
|And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
|When He saw them, He said 'Go show yourselves to the priests. And, as they obeyed him, they were healed.
|
|-
|15
|And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
|One of them, seeing he was healed, went back, loudly giving praise to God.
|
|-
|16
|And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
|The man, a Samaritan, fell down at Jesus' feet and thanked Him.
|
|-
|17
|And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
|Jesus said to him "Weren't ten healed? Where are the other nine?
|
|-
|18
|There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
|Only this man, a Samaritan, came back to give praise and glory to God."
|
|-
|19
|And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.
|Jesus said to the man, "Get up, and go. Your faith has healed you."
|
|-
|20
|And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
|When the Pharisees demanded that he tell them when the kingdom of God would come, he answered, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs that will be easy to see.
|
|-
|21
|Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
|Nor will people say, 'Here it is! Or there it is! Look amongst yourselves for the kingdom of God."
|
|-
|22
|And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
|Then he said to his students, "The days are coming, when you will all desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it.
|
|-
|23
|And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
|And people will tell you, 'Here he is! Or there he is!' Don't go after them; don't follow them.
|
|-
|24
|For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
|For just as the lightning flashes across the entire sky, that is how the Son of man will be in his day.
|
|-
|25
|But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
|First, though, he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation.
|
|-
|26
|And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
|As it was back in Noah's days, that's how it will be in the days of the Son of man.
|
|-
|27
|They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
|They ate and drank, they married and were given in marriage--right up to the time they went into the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed everyone.
|
|-
|28
|Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
|
|
|-
|29
|But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
|
|
|-
|30
|Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
|
|
|-
|31
|In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
|
|
|-
|32
|Remember Lot's wife.
|
|
|-
|33
|Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
|
|
|-
|34
|I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
|
|
|-
|35
|Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
|
|
|-
|36
|Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
|
|
|-
|37
|And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 18==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he spake a parable unto them to this end, that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
|And to teach them that man ought to pray and not faint, he told them this parable:
|
|-
|2
|Saying, There was in a city a judge, which feared not God, neither regarded man:
|"In a city, there was a judge who did not respect God or men,
|
|-
|3
|And there was a widow in that city; and she came unto him, saying, Avenge me of mine adversary.
|and a widow, and she came to the judge said, 'Give me revenge upon my advesary.'
|
|-
|4
|And he would not for a while: but afterward he said within himself, Though I fear not God, nor regard man;
|For some time he did nothing, but after a while he said to himself, 'Though I respect neither God nor men,
|
|-
|5
|Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.
|this woman keeps pestering me, and so I will give her her revenge, so that she does not annoy me with her petitions.'"
|
|-
|6
|And the Lord said, Hear what the unjust judge saith.
|Then the Lord said, "Hear what the unjust judge has said.
|
|-
|7
|And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?
|Won't God avenge his chosen, who cry day and night to him, as he stand with them?
|
|-
|8
|I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
|I tell you, he will avenge them quickly. But when the Son of man comes, will he find faith on the Earth?"
|
|-
|9
|And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
|And he spoke this parable to those who deceived themselves to be righteous
and hated their fellow man.
|-
|10
|Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
|Two men visited the temple to pray to God; one was a false teacher, the other a tax collector.
|
|-
|11
|The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
|The false teacher stood and prayed in reference to himself, "God, I thank you that I am not a sinner".
|
|-
|12
|I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
|"I go without food twice a week and I give a portion of my wealth to you".
|
|-
|13
|And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
|The tax collector who was a ways away, respectful before the Lord, beat on his chest and asked God for mercy as he was a sinner.
|
|-
|14
|I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
|I tell you that the tax collector went home righteous as he humbled himself before the Lord; whereas the false teacher, thinking he knows everything did not. For the humble will be praised and the arrogant shall be cut down to size.
|
|-
|15
|And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.
|And infants were brought to Jesus in the hopes that he would touch them, but his disciples rebuked those that brought them when they saw it.
|
|-
|16
|But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
|But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the children come and do not prevent them from doing so because the kingdom of God belongs to them".
|
|-
|17
|Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
|"I say to you that whoever does not believe as wholeheartedly as a child will not enter the kingdom of God".
|
|-
|18
|And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
|A powerful man then asked Jesus how he can attain eternal life.
|
|-
|19
|And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
|Jesus responded, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except one, God the Father".
|
|-
|20
|Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
|"You know the commandments: Honor your father and mother. Do not kill, steal, lie, or be unfaithful to your spouse".
|
|-
|21
|And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
|The powerful man responded that he had done all these things ever since he was a young boy.
|
|-
|22
|Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
|
|
|-
|23
|And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
|
|
|-
|24
|And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
|
|
|-
|25
|For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
|
|
|-
|26
|And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
|
|
|-
|27
|And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
|
|
|-
|28
|Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
|
|
|-
|29
|And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake,
|
|
|-
|30
|Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.
|
|
|-
|31
|Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
|
|
|-
|32
|For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
|
|
|-
|33
|And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
|
|
|-
|34
|And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
|
|
|-
|35
|And it came to pass, that as he was come nigh unto Jericho, a certain blind man sat by the way side begging:
|
|
|-
|36
|And hearing the multitude pass by, he asked what it meant.
|
|
|-
|37
|And they told him, that Jesus of Nazareth passeth by.
|
|
|-
|38
|And he cried, saying, Jesus, thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|
|
|-
|39
|And they which went before rebuked him, that he should hold his peace: but he cried so much the more, Thou Son of David, have mercy on me.
|
|
|-
|40
|And Jesus stood, and commanded him to be brought unto him: and when he was come near, he asked him,
|
|
|-
|41
|Saying, What wilt thou that I shall do unto thee? And he said, Lord, that I may receive my sight.
|
|
|-
|42
|And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
|
|
|-
|43
|And immediately he received his sight, and followed him, glorifying God: and all the people, when they saw it, gave praise unto God.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 19==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And Jesus entered and passed through Jericho.
|
|
|-
|2
|And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
|
|
|-
|3
|And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
|
|
|-
|4
|And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
|
|
|-
|5
|And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
|
|
|-
|6
|And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
|
|
|-
|7
|And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
|
|
|-
|9
|And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
|
|
|-
|10
|For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
|
|
|-
|11
|And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
|
|
|-
|12
|He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
|
|
|-
|13
|And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
|
|
|-
|14
|But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
|
|
|-
|15
|And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
|
|
|-
|16
|Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
|
|
|-
|18
|And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
|
|
|-
|19
|And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
|
|
|-
|20
|And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
|
|
|-
|21
|For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
|
|
|-
|23
|Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
|
|
|-
|24
|And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
|
|
|-
|25
|(And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
|
|
|-
|26
|For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
|
|
|-
|27
|But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
|
|
|-
|28
|And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.
|
|
|-
|29
|And it came to pass, when he was come nigh to Bethphage and Bethany, at the mount called the mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples,
|
|
|-
|30
|Saying, Go ye into the village over against you; in the which at your entering ye shall find a colt tied, whereon yet never man sat: loose him, and bring him hither.
|
|
|-
|31
|And if any man ask you, Why do ye loose him? thus shall ye say unto him, Because the Lord hath need of him.
|
|
|-
|32
|And they that were sent went their way, and found even as he had said unto them.
|
|
|-
|33
|And as they were loosing the colt, the owners thereof said unto them, Why loose ye the colt?
|
|
|-
|34
|And they said, The Lord hath need of him.
|
|
|-
|35
|And they brought him to Jesus: and they cast their garments upon the colt, and they set Jesus thereon.
|
|
|-
|36
|And as he went, they spread their clothes in the way.
|
|
|-
|37
|And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen;
|
|
|-
|38
|Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.
|
|
|-
|39
|And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.
|
|
|-
|40
|And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.
|
|
|-
|41
|And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
|
|
|-
|42
|Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
|
|
|-
|43
|For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
|
|
|-
|44
|And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
|
|
|-
|45
|And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
|
|
|-
|46
|Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
|
|
|-
|47
|And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
|
|
|-
|48
|And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 20==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And it came to pass, that on one of those days, as he taught the people in the temple, and preached the gospel, the chief priests and the scribes came upon him with the elders,
|
|
|-
|2
|And spake unto him, saying, Tell us, by what authority doest thou these things? or who is he that gave thee this authority?
|
|
|-
|3
|And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me:
|
|
|-
|4
|The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?
|
|
|-
|5
|And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?
|
|
|-
|6
|But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet.
|
|
|-
|7
|And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was.
|
|
|-
|8
|And Jesus said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.
|
|
|-
|10
|And at the season he sent a servant to the husbandmen, that they should give him of the fruit of the vineyard: but the husbandmen beat him, and sent him away empty.
|
|
|-
|11
|And again he sent another servant: and they beat him also, and entreated him shamefully, and sent him away empty.
|
|
|-
|12
|And again he sent a third: and they wounded him also, and cast him out.
|
|
|-
|13
|Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence him when they see him.
|
|
|-
|14
|But when the husbandmen saw him, they reasoned among themselves, saying, This is the heir: come, let us kill him, that the inheritance may be ours.
|
|
|-
|15
|So they cast him out of the vineyard, and killed him. What therefore shall the lord of the vineyard do unto them?
|
|
|-
|16
|He shall come and destroy these husbandmen, and shall give the vineyard to others. And when they heard it, they said, God forbid.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?
|
|
|-
|18
|Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
|
|
|-
|19
|And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.
|
|
|-
|20
|And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor.
|
|
|-
|21
|And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:
|
|
|-
|22
|Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
|
|
|-
|23
|But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
|
|
|-
|24
|Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
|
|
|-
|26
|And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
|
|
|-
|27
|Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
|
|
|-
|28
|Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
|
|
|-
|29
|There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.
|
|
|-
|30
|And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.
|
|
|-
|31
|And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.
|
|
|-
|32
|Last of all the woman died also.
|
|
|-
|33
|Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
|
|
|-
|34
|And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
|
|
|-
|35
|But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
|
|
|-
|36
|Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
|
|
|-
|37
|Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
|
|
|-
|38
|For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
|
|
|-
|39
|Then certain of the scribes answering said, Master, thou hast well said.
|
|
|-
|40
|And after that they durst not ask him any question at all.
|
|
|-
|41
|And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
|
|
|-
|42
|And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
|
|
|-
|43
|Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
|
|
|-
|44
|David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?
|
|
|-
|45
|Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,
|
|
|-
|46
|Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
|
|
|-
|47
|Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 21==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
|
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|-
|2
|And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
|
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|-
|3
|And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
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|-
|4
|For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
|
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|-
|5
|And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,
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|-
|6
|As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
|
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|-
|7
|And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?
|
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|-
|8
|And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
|
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|-
|9
|But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.
|
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|-
|10
|Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:
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|-
|11
|And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.
|
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|-
|12
|But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
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|-
|13
|And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
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|-
|14
|Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
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|-
|15
|For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
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|-
|16
|And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
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|-
|17
|And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
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|-
|18
|But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
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|-
|19
|In your patience possess ye your souls.
|
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|-
|20
|And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
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|-
|21
|Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
|
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|-
|22
|For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
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|-
|23
|But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
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|-
|24
|And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
|
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|-
|25
|And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
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|-
|26
|Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
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|-
|27
|And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
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|-
|28
|And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
|
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|-
|29
|And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
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|-
|30
|When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
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|-
|31
|So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
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|-
|32
|Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
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|-
|33
|Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
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|-
|34
|And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
|
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|-
|35
|For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
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|-
|36
|Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
|
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|-
|37
|And in the day time he was teaching in the temple; and at night he went out, and abode in the mount that is called the mount of Olives.
|
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|-
|38
|And all the people came early in the morning to him in the temple, for to hear him.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 22==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
|
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|-
|2
|And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
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|-
|3
|Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
|
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|-
|4
|And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
|
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|-
|5
|And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
|
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|-
|6
|And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.
|
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|-
|7
|Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.
|
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|-
|8
|And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
|
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|-
|9
|And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
|
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|-
|10
|And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
|
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|-
|11
|And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
|
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|-
|12
|And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
|
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|-
|13
|And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
|
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|-
|14
|And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
|
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|-
|15
|And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
|
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|-
|16
|For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
|
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|-
|17
|And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
|
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|-
|18
|For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
|
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|-
|19
|And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
|
|
|-
|20
|Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
|
|
|-
|21
|But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
|
|
|-
|22
|And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
|
|
|-
|23
|And they began to inquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.
|
|
|-
|24
|And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
|
|
|-
|25
|And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
|
|
|-
|26
|But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
|
|
|-
|27
|For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.
|
|
|-
|28
|Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
|
|
|-
|29
|And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
|
|
|-
|30
|That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
|
|
|-
|31
|And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
|
|
|-
|32
|But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
|
|
|-
|33
|And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
|
|
|-
|34
|And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
|
|
|-
|35
|And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
|
|
|-
|36
|Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
|
|
|-
|37
|For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
|
|
|-
|38
|And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
|
|
|-
|39
|And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.
|
|
|-
|40
|And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
|
|
|-
|41
|And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
|
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|-
|42
|Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
|
|
|-
|43
|And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
|
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|-
|44
|And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
|
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|-
|45
|And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
|
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|-
|46
|And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.
|
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|-
|47
|And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
|
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|-
|48
|But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
|
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|-
|49
|When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
|
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|-
|50
|And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
|
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|-
|51
|And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
|
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|-
|52
|Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
|
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|-
|53
|When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
|
|
|-
|54
|Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
|
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|-
|55
|And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
|
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|-
|56
|But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
|
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|-
|57
|And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
|
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|-
|58
|And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
|
|
|-
|59
|And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
|
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|-
|60
|And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
|
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|-
|61
|And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
|
|
|-
|62
|And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.
|
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|-
|63
|And the men that held Jesus mocked him, and smote him.
|
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|-
|64
|And when they had blindfolded him, they struck him on the face, and asked him, saying, Prophesy, who is it that smote thee?
|
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|-
|65
|And many other things blasphemously spake they against him.
|
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|-
|66
|And as soon as it was day, the elders of the people and the chief priests and the scribes came together, and led him into their council, saying,
|
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|-
|67
|Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe:
|
|
|-
|68
|And if I also ask you, ye will not answer me, nor let me go.
|
|
|-
|69
|Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
|
|
|-
|70
|Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.
|
|
|-
|71
|And they said, What need we any further witness? for we ourselves have heard of his own mouth.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 23==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|And the whole multitude of them arose, and led him unto Pilate.
|
|
|-
|2
|And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.
|
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|-
|3
|And Pilate asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answered him and said, Thou sayest it.
|
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|-
|4
|Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this man.
|
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|-
|5
|And they were the more fierce, saying, He stirreth up the people, teaching throughout all Jewry, beginning from Galilee to this place.
|
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|-
|6
|When Pilate heard of Galilee, he asked whether the man were a Galilaean.
|
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|-
|7
|And as soon as he knew that he belonged unto Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him to Herod, who himself also was at Jerusalem at that time.
|
|
|-
|8
|And when Herod saw Jesus, he was exceeding glad: for he was desirous to see him of a long season, because he had heard many things of him; and he hoped to have seen some miracle done by him.
|
|
|-
|9
|Then he questioned with him in many words; but he answered him nothing.
|
|
|-
|10
|And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him.
|
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|-
|11
|And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.
|
|
|-
|12
|And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.
|
|
|-
|13
|And Pilate, when he had called together the chief priests and the rulers and the people,
|
|
|-
|14
|Said unto them, Ye have brought this man unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this man touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
|
|
|-
|15
|No, nor yet Herod: for I sent you to him; and, lo, nothing worthy of death is done unto him.
|
|
|-
|16
|I will therefore chastise him, and release him.
|
|
|-
|17
|(For of necessity he must release one unto them at the feast.)
|
|
|-
|18
|And they cried out all at once, saying, Away with this man, and release unto us Barabbas:
|
|
|-
|19
|(Who for a certain sedition made in the city, and for murder, was cast into prison.)
|
|
|-
|20
|Pilate therefore, willing to release Jesus, spake again to them.
|
|
|-
|21
|But they cried, saying, Crucify him, crucify him.
|
|
|-
|22
|And he said unto them the third time, Why, what evil hath he done? I have found no cause of death in him: I will therefore chastise him, and let him go.
|
|
|-
|23
|And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. And the voices of them and of the chief priests prevailed.
|
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|-
|24
|And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
|
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|-
|25
|And he released unto them him that for sedition and murder was cast into prison, whom they had desired; but he delivered Jesus to their will.
|
|
|-
|26
|And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus.
|
|
|-
|27
|And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.
|
|
|-
|28
|But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
|
|
|-
|29
|For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.
|
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|-
|30
|Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.
|
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|-
|31
|For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?
|
|
|-
|32
|And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
|
|
|-
|33
|And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the malefactors, one on the right hand, and the other on the left.
|
|
|-
|34
|Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
|They divided his clothes, and gambled for them.
|The statement attributed to Jesus in this verse is likely not authentic.<ref>http://www.preteristarchive.com/BibleStudies/Bible_NT/Luke/luke_23-34.html</ref><ref>http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+23%3A34&version=NIV</ref> Proponents of the authenticity of these words claim they are necessary to fulfill a prophecy of [[Isaiah 51-58 (Translated)#Chapter 53|Isaiah 53:12]].
|-
|35
|And the people stood beholding. And the rulers also with them derided him, saying, He saved others; let him save himself, if he be Christ, the chosen of God.
|
|
|-
|36
|And the soldiers also mocked him, coming to him, and offering him vinegar,
|
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|-
|37
|And saying, If thou be the king of the Jews, save thyself.
|
|
|-
|38
|And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew, THIS IS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
|
|
|-
|39
|And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
|
|
|-
|40
|But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
|
|
|-
|41
|And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
|
|
|-
|42
|And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
|
|
|-
|43
|And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
|
|
|-
|44
|And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
|
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|-
|45
|And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
|
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|-
|46
|And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
|
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|-
|47
|Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.
|
|
|-
|48
|And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned.
|
|
|-
|49
|And all his acquaintance, and the women that followed him from Galilee, stood afar off, beholding these things.
|
|
|-
|50
|And, behold, there was a man named Joseph, a counseller; and he was a good man, and a just:
|
|
|-
|51
|(The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) he was of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
|
|
|-
|52
|This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus.
|
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|-
|53
|And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
|
|
|-
|54
|And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
|
|
|-
|55
|And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid.
|
|
|-
|56
|And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
|
|
|}

==Chapter 24==

{| class="wikitable"
|-
!Verse
!King James Version
!Proposed Conservative Translation
!Analysis
|-
|1
|Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
|
|
|-
|2
|And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
|
|
|-
|3
|And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
|
|
|-
|4
|And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
|
|
|-
|5
|And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?
|
|
|-
|6
|He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
|
|
|-
|7
|Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
|
|
|-
|8
|And they remembered his words,
|
|
|-
|9
|And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.
|
|
|-
|10
|It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.
|
|
|-
|11
|And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.
|
|
|-
|12
|Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass.
|
|
|-
|13
|And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
|
|
|-
|14
|And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
|
|
|-
|15
|And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
|
|
|-
|16
|But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
|
|
|-
|17
|And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
|
|
|-
|18
|And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass therein these days?
|
|
|-
|19
|And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
|
|
|-
|20
|And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
|
|
|-
|21
|But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
|
|
|-
|22
|Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
|
|
|-
|23
|And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
|
|
|-
|24
|And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
|
|
|-
|25
|Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
|
|
|-
|26
|Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
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|27
|And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
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|28
|And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
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|29
|But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
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|30
|And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
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|31
|And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
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|32
|And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
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|33
|And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
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|34
|Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
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|35
|And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
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|36
|And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
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|37
|But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
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|38
|And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
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|39
|Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
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|40
|And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
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|41
|And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
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|42
|And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
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|43
|And he took it, and did eat before them.
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|44
|And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
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|45
|Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
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|46
|And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
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|47
|And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
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|48
|And ye are witnesses of these things.
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|49
|And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
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|50
|And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
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|51
|And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
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|52
|And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
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|53
|And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
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|
|}

<references/>

[[Category:Conservative Bible]]