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September 11, 2001 attacks

2009-07-05T01:05:24Z

AliceCurtis: /* Conspiracy Theories */ there's nothing too "compelling" about lib smearsagainst Bush.

[[Image:National Park Service 9-11 Statue of Liberty and WTC fire.jpg|right|300px]]
The '''Terrorist Attacks of September 11, 2001''' occurred when [[al Qaeda]]-affiliated [[Islam|Islamic]] extremists hijacked four transcontinental airliners and used them to strike targets in the [[United States]], succeeding in destroying the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City and a portion of the Pentagon in Washington, D.C.; the fourth aircraft, in which the hijackers are believed to have targeted the White House or the Capital Building, crashed into an empty field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania after passengers fought back to re-take control.

The sheer audacity of the attack and the heavy loss of life that resulted from it caused the Bush Administration to declare a war on terror with the determination to hunt down terrorists world-wide; within two months of September 11, [[Afghanistan]] was completely occupied by American forces, driving the ruling Taliban from power and causing the main suspect of the attacks, [[Osama bin Laden]], to flee into hiding.

==The hijacking==
[[Image:9-11.jpg|right|225px]]
All 19 hijackers boarded the planes on the morning of September 11, having carefully chosen flights whose routes would be transcontinental. Two planes flew out of Boston's Logan Airport, one flew from Washington's Dulles International Airport, and the fourth left an airport in Newark, New Jersey.

===New York City===
American Airlines Flight 11 left Logan Airport around 8 AM, carrying 11 crew and 81 passengers; its destination was Los Angeles, California. United Airlines Flight 175 left Logan a few minutes later, carrying 9 crew and 56 passengers, and also on a flight to Los Angeles. Both aircraft were the 767-200, manufactured by the Boeing Company.

At 8:25 AM Boston air traffic controllers heard a strange voice from Flight 11: "We have some planes. Just stay quiet, and you will be OK. We are returning to the airport." The plane then headed south toward New York City; at 8:46 AM the plane crashed into the north tower of the World Trade Center between the 93 and 99th floors. Sixteen minutes later, at 9:03 AM, Flight 175 crashed into the south tower - at a greater speed and more oblique angle - between the 77th and 85th floors.

The impact of the crashes took out any hope of getting to victims and survivors on the affected floors and the floors above; many people desperate to get away from the smoke and fire jumped. Both towers were designed to survive the impact of a 1960s-era jet, but the Boeing 767 was larger and carried more fuel; it was determined later that the heat from the burning fuel weakened the central steel structure and supports. At 9:59 am the south tower collasped; the upper floors had lost support in the damaged area and fell - pancake style - to the ground. At 10:29 AM the north tower fell in a similar manner. The death toll was around 2,750, including more than 300 firefighters and 100 police officers and other rescue workers.

===Washington, D.C.===
American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757-200, left Dulles at 8:20 AM, carrying 6 crew and 58 passengers on a flight to Los Angeles. Forty minutes later the aircraft had turned back toward Washington; at 9:37 it crashed at high-speed into the west side of the Pentagon, killing a total of 184 people. Despite being built of reinforced concrete, the aircraft was able to penetrate to the third concentric ring of the building.

===Shanksville, Pennsylvania===
United Airlines Flight 93, a Boeing 757-200, left Newark at 8:40 AM, with a destination of San Fransisco. Unlike the other planes which had four hijackers each, Flight 93 had three; it also had passengers who, through onboard phone calls, learned of the previous hijackings and crashes and determined to wrest control of the aircraft back from the terrorists. Turned towards Washington, the plane ended up crashing in a wheat field near Shanksville, Pennsylvania at 10:03 AM, the only one of the aircraft which failed to reach its target. Among the recorded conversations between the passengers and phone operators was the phrase "Let's roll" by Todd Beamer, made just before he set down his phone and took action with the other passengers involved; Beamer's last phrase would become a rallying cry in the coming war on terorism.

===Ground Casualties===
[[Image:393px-WTC-remnant highres.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Remains of the South Tower, September 13, 2001.]]
The total loss of life is constantly being reevaluated to account for wrongly reported missing persons and, in some cases, occurrences of fraud. Estimates of more than 6,000 deaths were announced following the attacks. The current estimate is 2,996 fatalities as a direct result of the attacks. About 500 foreign nationals from over 90 countries are believed to have died in the attack.<ref> [http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/10/29/wtc.deaths/ "New York Reduces 9/11 Death Toll by 40"] at CNN.com, Phil Hirschkorn, 10/29/03</ref>

The Department of Defense reported the deaths of 125 people at The Pentagon. The aftermath of the World Trade Center towers collapsing created a good deal of confusion and has been the main source of discrepancies in casualty estimates. As of October 29, 2003, New York City reported 2605 deaths in the attacks, not counting the passengers and crew of the planes. <ref> [http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/10/29/wtc.deaths/ "New York Reduces 9/11 Death Toll by 40"] at CNN.com, Phil Hirschkorn, 10/29/03</ref>

As a matter of course, the deaths of the 19 [[suicide|hijackers]] are not included in these casualty totals.

===Economic Impact===
The material costs of the attacks are well in excess of one hundred billion US dollars. Factoring in stock market losses, loss of revenue in New York City, loss of jobs, impact on air travel, and heightened security, some estimate the cost approaches two trillion dollars.<ref>[http://www.iags.org/costof911.html The Cost of September 11] Institute for the Analysis of Global Security</ref>

Some estimates of the cost of executing the plan place it in the $400,000-$500,000 range, making it an extremely "profitable" operation for al-Qaeda. <ref>[http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report_Exec.htm The 9/11 Commission Report]</ref>

==The suspects==
Suspicion fell on Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda organization almost immediately. Known to have harbored hatred for the United States since the basing of U.S. fighters and other military personnel in Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf War, bin Laden has tried "To kill Americans and their allies — civilians and military — is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it," <ref>[http://awildernessvoice.com/Mohammed.html]</ref>, and often succeeding. In four previous attacks, bin Laden's operatives
*killed 6 in a bomb explosion in the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993;
*killed 19 soldiers in 1996 at a military housing complex in Saudi Arabia;
*killed more than 200 people in the simultaneous bombings of U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania;
*killed 17 sailors by putting an explosives-laden boat next to USS ''Cole'' while that destroyer was refueling in Yemen in 2000.

His personal fortune, estimated in the hundreds of millions of dollars, has enabled him to finance well-coordinated operations, including the training of the hijackers in close-quarter fighting, commandeering of aircraft, and ironically to bankroll their education in American flight schools.

==Social Impacts==

Following the attacks there was a strong surge of patriotism in virtually all facets of American society. The government, being aware that the most deadly attack ever on American soil could stir up animosity against the ethnic or religious group of the perpetrators, went out of its way along with the media to separate Islam from the actions taken by its more radical adherents, referring to it at multiple times as a "religion of love". While people of Middle Eastern decent and adherents of Islam were concerned at first, the overall effect of hostility towards these groups was barely noticeable. Although there were literally millions of Muslims in America out of a total population of 300 million who could have sought out reprisals, in an entire year less than 500 cases of aggression of verbal hostility were reported.

==Consequences of the Attacks on US Policy==
===Domestic Policy===

The attacks were a direct or indirect cause of massive changes in United States domestic policy. Most notably, the ''Homeland Security Act of 2002'' "established a [[Department of Homeland Security]], as an executive department of the United States" <ref>[http://www.whitehouse.gov/deptofhomeland/bill/hsl-bill.pdf H.R. 5005 The Homeland Security Act]</ref>, a cabinet level position. One of the tools implemented by the Department is the [[Homeland Security Advisory System]], a color coded advisory system meant to "establish a comprehensive and effective means to disseminate information regarding the risk of terrorist acts to Federal, State, and local authorities and to the American people." <ref>[http://www.dhs.gov/xinfoshare/laws/ DHS Laws and Regulations] Department of Homeland Security</ref>

Another notable result of the attacks was the ''[[USA PATRIOT Act|USA PATRIOT Act of 2001]]'' ('''U'''niting and '''S'''trengthening '''A'''merica by '''P'''roviding '''A'''ppropriate '''T'''ools '''R'''equired to '''I'''ntercept and '''O'''bstruct '''T'''errorism). The act was written to expand the authority of law enforcement and the justice system in the pursuit of terrorism suspects.<ref>[http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.3162.ENR: ''The USA PATRIOT Act''] Library of Congress</ref>

===Foreign Policy===

In response to the attacks, the United States declared a [[War on Terror]], which comprises United States military action in [[Afghanistan]] and [[Iraq]] as well as a significant increase in intelligence gathering and a new outlook on foreign relations.

==Conspiracy Theories==

Many conspiracy theories <ref>[http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061002/alterman Lying About 9/11? Easy as [[ABC]]], Eric Alterman, ''The Nation'', September 14, 2006 (October 2, 2006 issue). </ref> have sprouted up from the events of September 11, 2001, including the "Loose Change" movies seen on YouTube. These movies have been comprehensively disproven by independent experts <ref>[http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html "Debunking The 9/11 Myths"] ''Popular Mechanics'', Mar. 2005 Cover Story</ref>. Prominent endorsers of such theories include talk show host [[Rosie O'Donnell]] as well as actor [[Charlie Sheen]]. A third of the American public has bought into the idea of some sort of role by federal officials. This view is much more common among those who get their news solely from the internet and is rare for those who read newspapers or watch the news on regular television. "Members of racial and ethnic minorities, people with only a high school education and Democrats were especially likely to suspect federal involvement in 9/11"<ref>http://www.shns.com/shns/g_index2.cfm?action=detail&pk=CONSPIRACY-08-02-06</ref>

==Sources==
*[http://www.9-11commission.gov/report/911Report.pdf The 9/11 Commission Report]
*[http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1CollapseofTowers.pdf Final Report on the Collapse of the World Trade Center Towers], [[National Institute of Standards and Technology|NIST]].
*[http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/chronology.attack/index.html September 11: Chronology of Terror] at CNN.com
*[http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/penttbom/penttbomb.htm Federal Bureau of Investigations PENTTBOM Press Release]
*[http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/main.html Lists of Victims] at CNN.com

==Additional Information==
*[http://www.archive.org/details/sept_11_tv_archive The Internet Archive's file of ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX, and BBC broadcasts for Sept 11-13, 2001]
*[http://www.televisionarchive.org/ Television Archive of news broadcasts for 9/11]

==References==
{{reflist|2}}

[[category:United States History]]
[[Category:Riots and terrorist incidents in the United States]]

Conservapedia:Debate Topics

2009-07-05T00:51:57Z

AliceCurtis: /* Religious debates */

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# [[Debate:Should the first story of creation be read allegorically or literally?]]
# [[Debate:Is Scientology a false religion?]]
# [[Debate:Why do Moses, Ezra, Jesus, and Paul all disagree on divorce?]]
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# [[Debate:If most Muslims learned their religion from their parents, just like us Christians, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?]]
# [[Debate:If_most_Christians_learned_their_religion_from_their_parents%2C_just_like_us_Muslims%2C_they_will_probably_be_hard_to_convert._So_what_can_we_do_to_save_their_souls%3F|Debate:If most Christians learned their religion from their parents, just like us Muslims, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?]]
# [[Debate:Does mainstream Islam endorse violence?]]
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# [[Debate:Were Judas' actions necessary and foreordained?]]
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# [[Debate: Can Christianity exist without Apostles and Prophets?]]
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#[[Debate:Either God is indecisive or the world's major religions have ALL got it wrong]]
#[[Debate:Creationist]]
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#[[Debate:Do ALL suicides go to hell?]]
#[[Debate:Epicurus' Trilemma]]
#[[Debate: Why does God care if we worship Him or not? Is it His ego?]]

==Historical debates==
# [[Debate:Was Benjamin Franklin a deist?]]
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==Political debates==
# [[Debate:Does Abstinence Only Education help or hurt us?]]
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# [[Debate:Was the United States right to drop atomic bombs so quickly on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?]]
# [[Debate:Was it wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?|Debate:If President Roosevelt had known about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, would it have been wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?]]
# [[Debate:Is gun-control the answer to crimes involving guns?]]
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# [[Debate:Crusades... Good or Bad?]]
# [[Debate:Was American soldier Michael New right to refuse to fight wearing part of a United Nations uniform?]] See [[Michael New]]
# [[Debate:Which is a more powerful ideology, Islam or communism?]]
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# [[Debate:Does the media really have a liberal bias?]]
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# [[Debate:Why did God place most of the world's oil in politically unstable places?]]
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# [[Debate:Obama's preacher.]]
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# [[Debate:The Declaration of Independence or Interdependence?]]
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# [[Debate: Are Cantonese people a non-Chinese ethnic group?]]
# [[Debate:If Obama Was Conservative]]
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# [[Debate:Is the Bush administration's Conscience Rule a step forward or backward for U.S. Healthcare?]]
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#[[Debate:What should be America's policy toward Islam]]?
#[[Debate:Is the American Occupation of the Hawaiian Islands justified?]]
#[[Debate:Was the American involvement in the Vietnam War justified?]]
#[[Debate:Was the North right to prevent Southern secession in the US Civil War?]]
#[[Debate:Is the 2009 Stimulus Plan the right approach, and if not what would be?]]
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# [[Is it possible to be conservative and know there is no possibility of there ever being a "God" and/or higher being?]]
# [[Debate:Is Obama an Atheist?]]

==Scientific debates==
# [[Debate:Why haven't intelligent designists published a single scientific article?|Debate:If intelligent design is just as valid as evolution, where are all their scientific findings and publishings?]]
# [[Debate:Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that bigotry is a necessary self-defense mechanism?]]
# [[Debate:Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that homosexuality is bad for the survival of a species?]]
# [[Debate:Is Darwinian natural selection compatible with Marxism?]]
# [[Debate:Is the theory of macroevolution true?]]
# [[Debate:Is Giving Birth the Bible Way Better?]]
# [[Debate:Should Creationism/Intelligent design be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution in public schools?]]
# [[Debate:Is global warming evident, and if so, is this the fault of man, and how must man stop it?]]
# [[Debate:If the universe is young and it takes light millions of years to reach us from far off stars, how can we see them?]]
# [[Debate:God, Earth and Global Warming]]
# [[Debate:Is the evidence in favor of evolution convincing?|Is the evidence in favor of evolution convincing?]]
# [[Debate:If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?|Debate:If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?]]
# [[Debate:Is Relativity in direct conflict with the Genesis account?]]
# [[Debate:Who feels that scientific related articles should only reference published research papers instead of websites when dealing with research instead of application?]]
# [[Debate:If it could be unambiguously demonstrated that man is NOT the most evolved animal, then would this support or refute ther idea of Creation by God?|Debate:If it could be unambiguously demonstrated that man is NOT the most evolved animal]]
# [[Debate:Why are God's works always questioned?]]
# [[Debate:Are there any elements of choice, when it comes to carrying out homosexual acts?|Debate:Are there any elements of choice]]
# [[Debate:Listing the Earth's most pressing needs in urgent order of fixing]]
# [[Debate:Is homosexuality a mental illness?]]
# [[Debate:Can the science of evolution be separated from the philosophy of it?]]

==Debates about Conservapedia==
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia representing a conservative POV or a Young Earth Creationist POV?]]
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia anti-British?]]
# [[Debate:The liberal quotient of Conservapedia; what is it? Does it matter?]]
# [[Debate:Does bias impair Wikipedia's reliability?]]
# [[Debate:Should the term list entries be included in Conservapedia's entry count?]]
# [[Debate:How should Conservapedia work to avoid having a conservative bias?]]
# [[Debate:Can Conservapedia Succeed?]]
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia fair and balanced?]]
# [[Debate:How can we protect Conservapedia by distinguishing real conservative encyclopedia articles from satires written by liberals?]]
# [[Debate:What exactly is Conservapedia?]]
# [[Debate:Was the media attention needed?]]
# [[Debate:Conservapedia Debate Topics full of far left liberal netroots]]
# [[Debate:Which is true; progressive Liberal or regressive liberal]]
# [[Debate:Where do you personally look for facts and information on topics "When did Brahms live" or "Why did Monet paint grainstacks?"]]
# [[Debate:Is it okay for Conservapedia to have biased articles?]]
# [[Debate:Who deletes entire discussion items from here? And why?]]
# [[Debate:Why do users, who contribute substantially, choose to leave this community?]]
# [[Debate:Is the use of copyrighted photographs without permission stealing?]]
# [[Debate:Are there too many debates on Conservapedia?]]
# [[Debate:Is it tasteless for Conservapedia to critique the Virginia Tech poem on the Main Page?]]
# [[Debate:Has anyone ever been been banned for pointing out that many of the other entries on this site are in need of citation and evidence to back up statements?]]
# [[Debate:Does an encyclopedia define complex subjects, or insert more bias into them?]]
# [[Debate:Do sysops block editing on pages when it seems their opponents are making strong points?]]
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia a 'Trustworthy Encyclopedia'?]]
# [[Debate:Does altering the record of debate in a wiki 'Encyclopedia' render the entire thing a farce?]]
# [[Debate:Democrats next move, link more stories of heartache like those from Kansas to Gulf Coast.]]
# [[Debate:Do quotes used to support a theory just make an article look stupid?]]
# [[Debate:Is Conservapedia blinkered?|Is Conservapedia blinkered?]]
# [[Debate:Does Conservapedia censor opponents the way Expelled says ID advocates are censored?]]
# [[Debate:Is the Conservapedia Logo in violation of US Flag Code?]]
# [[Debate:The 90/10 rule exists soley to squash debate, and should be eliminated]]
# [[Debate:What will Conservapedia be like if Barack Obama wins the election?]]
# [[Debate:Which is more important, economic or social conservatism?]]

==Funny, maybe?==

# [[Debate:Are cats just useless Dogs]]
# [[Debate:Is the Platypus evidence that God has a sense of humour?]]
# [[Debate:Was the shooting at Virginia Tech somehow President Bush's fault?]]
# [[Debate:Are video games getting better or worse as graphics, sound, and gameplay complexity improve?]]
# [[Debate:Favorite old time radio show]]
# [[Debate: Does Harry Potter promote Satanic witchcraft?]]

==Other==
# [[Debate:Are alcohol, marijuana, and nicotine gateway drugs?]]
# [[Debate:Is Rap music torture?]]
# [[Debate:Should marijuana be legalized?]]
# [[Debate:What are the lessons that we should take away from the Milgram Experiment]]
# [[Debate:Does the Theory of Evolution promote atheism?]]
# [[Debate:Mall Shootings]]
# [[Debate:Creationist]]
# [[Debate:Is the Theory of Evolution a conspiricy?]]
# [[Debate:How should we view the fact leading scientists do not believe in god?]]
# [[Debate:Does modern music negatively influence children]]
# [[Debate:Propaganda in childrens' television]]
# [[Debate:What Is Music?]]
#[[Debate:Why are there so few homosexual athletes]]

[[Category:Conservapedia]]

Pedophilia

2009-07-05T00:44:21Z

AliceCurtis: "youngsters" was too folksy (or something). children is just as "apt".

A '''pedophile''' or '''paedophile''' (non-US spelling) is a person who is sexually attracted to young [[children]]. A pedophile who acts out his or her wishes in the form of viewing child [[pornography]] or molesting children is committing a [[crime]] and breaking virtually all moral codes.

Pedophilia used to be considered a [[mental illness]], but the APA changed its stance in 1994.<ref>[http://home.messiah.edu/~chase/h/articles/regenera/apa.htm Pedophilia No Longer a Disorder, Psychiatric Association Decides]</ref><ref>the American Psychiatric Association has stated is that an adult may engage in sex with a nine-year-old child, and if the adult is not bothered by what he is doing, then he has no reason to seek professional help. [http://home.messiah.edu/~chase/h/articles/regenera/dsm.htm] </ref>

==Notes==
<references />

[[Category:Sin]][[Category:Crime]]

United States Constitution

2009-07-04T21:14:11Z

AliceCurtis:

[[Image:Constitution.jpg|thumb|300px|The United States Constitution]]
''For the full text of the U.S. Constitution, see [[Full Text of the United States Constitution]].''

The '''United States Constitution''' is the supreme legal text that forms the framework of the current United States government. It was written by the [[Constitutional Convention]] of 1787 which debated many plans and compromises. The existing Congress sent it to the 13 states; after heated debates all 13 states ratified it in 1788 and it started in operation in 1789, with [[George Washington]] the first president, as the first Congress met in New York City.

==Other interesting facts about The Constitution:==
*It superseded the [[Articles of Confederation]].
* It is the oldest written national constitution. (San Marino did not write one until the 20th century.) <ref>http://www.constitutioncenter.org/explore/FastFacts/index.shtml</ref>
*Constitution Day is celebrated on September 17th, and all public schools are required to devote attention to it that day.
*Established on November 26, 1789, the first national "[[Thanksgiving|Thanksgiving Day]]" was originally created by George Washington as a way of "giving thanks" for the Constitution. <ref>http://www.constitutioncenter.org/explore/FastFacts/index.shtml</ref>

*The U.S. Constitution was prepared in secret, behind locked doors so that outside interests could not interfere. Historians believe that the delegates did keep absolute secrecy.

*Some of the original framers and many delegates in the state ratifying conventions were troubled that the original Constitution lacked a guarantee of individual rights to protect them against the federal government. Supporters promised such a "bill of rights" and in 1791 the first ten amendments were ratified and became known as "The Bill of Rights". <ref>http://www.constitutioncenter.org/explore/TheU.S.Constitution/index.shtml</ref> After the Civil War, the Constitution was amended to prevent state governments from infringing on the rights of the people.

==Constitutional Principles==
The Constitution of the United States of America specifies the laws by which The United States government is allowed to govern, included among these are the [[Freedom of Religion]], [[Freedom of the press|Freedom of The Press]], [[Freedom of speech|Freedom of Speech]], and the right of [[habeas corpus]] (Amendment XIV). It also, helps to guarantee the rights of the minorities by rule of law, such as African Americans and other minority groups, and to guarantee religious freedoms. It also defines a system of checks and balances by establishing three separate but equal branches of government (Legislative, Judicial and Executive), and lists the of powers not specified in The Constitution are reserved to the states and to the people. It also established a representative republic form of government, by the consent of the governed.

<ref>http://www.constitutioncenter.org Constitution Center</ref>

==Preamble==

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

==Articles==

The US Constitution contains seven articles, followed by twenty-seven amendments. Click the Article names to read a full description of each article.

*'''[[United States Constitution:Article I|Article I]]''' pertains to [[Congress]].
*'''[[United States Constitution:Article II|Article II]] pertains to the [[president|presidency]].
*'''[[United States Constitution:Article III|Article III]] pertains to the [[Judicial branch]] of government.
*'''[[United States Constitution:Article IV|Article IV]] addresses relations between the states of the [[United States]].
*'''[[United States Constitution:Article V|Article V]] details the process for amending the Constitution.
*'''[[United States Constitution:Article VI|Article VI]] establishes the Constitution, law passed by Congress, and treaties entered by the United States as the supreme law of the land.
*'''[[United States Constitution:Article VII|Article VII]] explains the Constitution's ratification.

==Amendments==

* [[First Amendment]]
* [[Second Amendment]]
* [[Third Amendment]]
* [[Fourth Amendment]]
* [[Fifth Amendment]]
* [[Sixth Amendment]]
* [[Seventh Amendment]]
* [[Eighth Amendment]]
* [[Ninth Amendment]]
* [[Tenth Amendment]]
* [[Eleventh Amendment]]
* [[Twelfth Amendment]]
* [[Thirteenth Amendment]]
* [[Fourteenth Amendment]]
* [[Fifteenth Amendment]]
* [[Sixteenth Amendment]]
* [[Seventeenth Amendment]]
* [[Eighteenth Amendment]]
* [[Nineteenth Amendment]]
* [[Twentieth Amendment]]
* [[Twenty-First Amendment]]
* [[Twenty-Second Amendment]]
* [[Twenty-Third Amendment]]
* [[Twenty-Fourth Amendment]]
* [[Twenty-Fifth Amendment]]
* [[Twenty-Sixth Amendment]]
* [[Twenty-Seventh Amendment]]

== See also ==
*[[Constitutional Convention]]
*[[Declaration of Independence]]
*[[Articles of Confederation]]
*[[James Madison]]

==References==
<references/>

[[Category:United States of America]]
[[Category:United States Constitution]]
[[Category: United States Government]]
[[Category:United States Law]]
[[Category:American Revolution]]
[[Category:Early National U.S.]]

Talk:Ayn Rand

2009-07-04T19:32:45Z

AliceCurtis:

"Rand has also been noted for her pioneering work in the use of the Cut-Up technique, used to great effect in the speeches of Atlas Shrugged" Is this really true? I was reading about cut-up the other day and no mention of Rand was made. It would certainly explain those speeches unreadability, however. [[User:Human|Human]] 22:18, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

: I think that whole paragraph is intended a joking criticism of her. [[User:RSchlafly|RSchlafly]] 22:43, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

::Got it. Thanks. Of course. Strangely, I saw the humor in the part about overcoming the writer's limitations, but not in the cut-up part - because I thought it was serious. Hey, I don't mind people making fun of Rand, although it seems like poor sport, as she can't respond any more, but I wouldn't want this article to confuse someone about the history of cut-up techniques and history. Maybe if the word "cut-up" was linked to an intermediary "that was a joke" page that then links to, say, William Burroughs, whoever inspired him, and perhaps even the Beatles (who used cut-up tapes on ''...Mr. Kite'' and ''Yellow Submarine'', at least). or at least then to a page about cut-up. Now, where was I reading about it? Hopefully not on Wikipedia, that would all be liberal nonsense. Maybe it was in a book review in [[The Nation]]? [[User:Human|Human]] 22:50, 23 April 2007 (EDT)
:::OK, I did the "intermediate page" thing, but it's a bad idea - pollutes the namespace. I'll make it into a footnote and have a sysop delete the "just kidding" page. [[User:Human|Human]] 23:12, 23 April 2007 (EDT)

-oOo-

If we’re going to have an external link to the Ayn Rand Institute, then we should have one to [http://www.ARIwatch.com ARI Watch], otherwise people will get the impression Ayn Rand was a complete idiot. — Mark

== No mention of her Athiesm? ==

Hey Andy, I hope you know that Ayn Rand was also an atheist. You seem to despise them on this site's Atheism page, but it's all praise for an atheist as long as they agree with you on political issues? I dont know man, seems like hipocracy to me. Not to mention that while she was an intelligent woman, she was also a dispiciple one and promoted selfishism. Being a Christian is about being Christ-like and Jesus was FAR from selfish or "objective". I sincerly hope that this doesnt get me blocked for whatever reason. And yes, I'm liberal but also a Christian. I geniunely want to hear your thoughts on this issue Peace & Love. B.Jerome

:Your spelling is atrocious. But please do add your insights about atheism and Ayn Rand, if you can substantiate them.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:11, 30 June 2009 (EDT)

== Her liberal viewpoints ==

Although they are mentioned later on in the article, her liberal views on abortion, gay marriage, etc. should be more prominently displayed, preferably in the article's intro. This would be, at the least, keeping with the general format I've seen for articles on liberal people, or people who happen to have liberal views. Also, why are her works listed on the Main Page as if they are useful to the average conservative reader? A work, no matter how "conservative" the tone, or message, if written by a liberal, should not be promoted. If anything, I wonder if that makes it even more...suspicious, that she wrote it that way. [[User:AliceCurtis|AliceCurtis]] 15:32, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Ayn Rand

2009-07-04T19:27:25Z

AliceCurtis: buisiness corrected to "business"

[[Image:Jhyu65.jpg|right|thumb]]
'''Ayn Rand''' ("Ayn" rhymes with "mine"), born '''Alisa Zinov'yevna Rosenbaum''' (1905-1982) was a [[Russian]]-born [[philosopher]], screenwriter, and novelist, who began her career in Hollywood. She used her novels to promote her philosophy, known as [[Objectivism]]. Her best-known novels are [[Atlas_Shrugged|''Atlas Shrugged'']] and ''[[The Fountainhead]]''.

She is a highly political author, with her novels often serving as political messages. She was a advocate of minimal government interference in business, and a strong objection to socialism and nationalism.

==Her views==
{{Main|Objectivism}}

Ayn Rand attracted a following based on her opposition to [[collectivism]], as articulated in her novels, particularly ''Atlas Shrugged''. Her followers today tend to be [[libertarians]] and predominantly unmarried men, many of whom are drawn to a self-indulgent lifestyle consistent with Rand's philosophy. Rand often called herself a "radical for capitalism," by which she meant the pure, ''laissez-faire'' variety.

Rand's philosophy was anti-Christian to the point of even declaring that "faith, as such, is extremely detrimental to human life: it is the negation of reason."<ref>http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_topic_religion</ref> The movement she founded supports an "absolute right" to [[abortion]] at any time during pregnancy,<ref>http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5105</ref> including partial-birth abortion.

Ayn Rand's philosophy and followers also support a "right" to have same-sex marriage, and opposed California's [[Proposition 8]] defining marriage as between one man and woman.<ref>http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=21821</ref>

Rand had very little in common with [[conservatives]] except for a mutual opposition to communism and socialism. Rand was an [[atheism|atheist]] and opponent of traditional [[family]] values, who personally adhered more to [[Hollywood Values]] than conservative ones.<ref>http://www.noblesoul.com/orc/bio/biofaq.html</ref> She was a strident opponent of altruism.

==Quotes==
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: The stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission – which is the stage of the darkest periods of [[human]] history, the stage of rule by brute force."<ref>http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45735 WorldNetDaily.com Should Democratic Party merge with Communist Party?, August 12, 2005</ref>

==Books Written==
*''We the Living''
*''[[Anthem (book)|Anthem]]''
*''The Fountainhead''
*''Atlas Shrugged''
*''Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal''
*''The Romantic Manifesto''
*''The New Left: The Anti-Industrial Revolution''
*''[[The Virtue of Selfishness]]''

==References==
Doherthy, Brian. 'Radicals for Capitalism a Freewheeling History of the Modern Libertarian Movement.' New York: Public Affairs, 2007.
<references/>

==External Links==
*[http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer Ayn Rand Institute]
*[http://www.ARIwatch.com ARI Watch] — argues that the above misrepresents Ayn Rand.
*[http://www.ios.org/ The Atlas Society — home of The Objectivist Center]
*[http://wiki.objectivismonline.net/wiki/Main_Page Objectivism Wiki]

{{DEFAULTSORT:Rand, Ayn}}

[[Category:Women Authors]]
[[Category:Atheists]]
[[Category:Libertarianism]]
[[Category:Conservatives]]

Liberal logic

2009-07-04T16:18:46Z

AliceCurtis: Major overhaul. Some of these were verb statements showing liberal tactics, others were statements from conservative viewpoints. Maybe a new section is needed?

'''Liberal logic''' is a term used to describe arguments made by some [[liberal]]s that may appear logical, but are actually nonsensical. Here are some examples:

# Assuming something is true, merely because another liberal said so (see [[appeal to authority]])
# Assuming something is false, merely because "only" a conservative said it (see [[ad hominem]])
# Claiming that their viewpoints are being censored, while actually they are the ones censoring their opponents
# Frequent reliance on [[circular reasoning]], as in demanding censorship of [[intelligent design]] while simultaneously citing the resulting silence as proof against it<ref>See, e.g., [[Richard Sternberg]].</ref>
#Insisting that someone needs to experience something (e.g., drugs, pornography, gambling, etc.) before being able to criticize it<ref>[http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1808 Bryn Mawr report on marijuana]. Many commentators said the reporter had no justification for his views since he had never tried marijuana. Examples of such liberal logic included: "There are pros and cons to everything under the sun. That dosen't (sic) mean that you shouldn't try it all...Besides marijuana is so much more beneficial then everyone realizes." which was smartly replied to by another commenter with: "Following your logic, obviously there are PROS to:
*jumping off the Empire State Building
*anorexia
*drunk driving
*smoking crack or meth
*child molestation
*Shall I keep going?...
Sorry, but not only is your drug-induced logic utterly flawed, but you don't exactly exude intelligence. Forgive me if I don't join your crusade." </ref>
# Personal experience dictates personal views, rather than rising above bad and/or unusual experiences and basing one's views on [[logic]]
# Claim that switching from heterosexual to [[homosexual]] is customary, but switching back is somehow impossible
# Criticize [[Christians]] for literal interpretations of [[Genesis]], but then insist on even more literal interpretations when it suits the [[liberal]] ideology<ref>For example, [[liberals]] here insist that [[homeschooling]] can only mean being taught while in someone's own home.</ref>
# Insisting that the [[Bible]] literally prohibits judging anything.
# No matter what happens in the weather, [[global warming]] caused it
# Belief that a [[correlation]] and/or [[causation]] (e.g., between [[atheism]] and [[suicide]]) can be disproved by a [[counterexample]] (e.g., one [[atheist]] who remained sane)
# Responding to a logical comment or question with an (illogical) expression of personal like or dislike, as in "but I like it!"
# Never admitting shame for [[liberal]] behavior, but often telling others they should be ashamed of themselves.
# [[Americans]] should "move on" past the misconduct of [[Bill Clinton]] and [[Ted Kennedy]], but should dig up as much old dirt as possible about [[John McCain]]
# Highly implausible assumption like "if [[embryonic stem cell]] research will find the cure for paralysis, then would you support it?" (without any consideration of alternatives).
# [[Barack Obama]] on [[Afghanistan]]: with fewer soldiers, we didn't have enough ammo and humvees!<ref>[http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us/politics/21text-demdebate.html?sq=transcript&st=nyt&scp=2&pagewanted=print]</ref>
# [[Free speech]] for anything and everything ... except the [[conservative]] truth, and religion.
# Insisting on "tolerance" for anything that is anti-[[Christian]], while promoting censorship for anything which is [[Christian]].
# [[Hollywood]] promotion of [[abortion]] is welcomed, but views of Hollywood actresses towards their own children are concealed
# The belief that, although carrying an unborn child to birth reduces risk of breast cancer, choosing [[abortion]] rather than childbirth somehow does not increase the relative risk.
# Requesting increased spending by [[government]] to reduce poverty, when actually poverty is increased by the dependency
# Claiming that an [[atheistic]] culture cannot harm anyone, but also insisting that classroom prayer can cause harm
# Claiming that teaching [[abstinence]] does not reduce premarital sex and associated disease.<ref>http://media.www.mustangdaily.net/media/storage/paper860/news/2007/04/10/LettersToTheEditor/Teaching.AbstinenceOnly.Unrealistic-2831363.shtml</ref>
# Claiming that premarital sex is acceptable and normal.
# Claiming that increasing taxes must increase government revenue,<ref>http://capwiz.com/acu/issues/alert/?alertid=11534766</ref> when often people just work less and revenues then decline.
# Denying that widespread ownership of guns, largely defensive weapons, can reduce crime.
# Claiming that [[Roe v. Wade]] ''cannot'' be overruled, or can only be overruled if it is a unanimous 9-0 vote (this argument tries to make irreversible law out of the dicta in a weak majority opinion in ''[[Planned Parenthood v. Casey]]'', even though the very creation of that "secret opinion" was procured by [[liberal deceit]].)<ref>See Jeffrey Toobin's ''The Nine''.</ref>
# Doing away with tradition language (such as "he" to refer to men '''and''' women), despite centuries of previous use.
# Claiming that getting rid of a sadistic dictator by going into [[Iraq]] was wrong but stepping into [[Sudan]] is not.
# Believing/claiming that the [[United Nations]] is better suited to judge and direct a country's actions rather than the country itself.
# It is a right to dissent against [[American]] policy but never take a stand if that [[logic]] moves beyond dissent and becomes treason.
# Stating "God of the gaps" to justify atheism
# Claiming that the "wondrous, pristine national park of [[ANWR]] needs protection to keep its beauty!" (In reality, it is but a remote barren tundra that few visit.) <ref>[http://townhall.com/columnists/MaryFallin/2008/07/24/anwrs_place_in_our_energy_picture ANWR's Place In Our Energy Picture] Townhall.com, July 24, 2008</ref>
# Claiming that t's not fair to the world that [[America]] keeps the thermostat at 72 degrees at all times. <ref>[http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13459 Freedom and the View From Obamaland] American Spectator, July 1, 2008</ref>
# Using a double-standard for racism and sexism when the target person is conservative.
# Claiming that it is extremely offensive to call any culture primitive or barbaric, except when they are talking about the writers of the [[Bible]].

==References==
<references/>

{{Liberalism}}
[[category:Liberalism]]
[[Category:Logic]]
[[Category:oxymoron]]

User talk:OscarJ

2009-07-04T14:30:08Z

AliceCurtis:

{{Welcome|sig=[[User:JessicaT|KotomiT]][[User talk:JessicaT|''nandeyanen?'']] 08:27, 17 April 2009 (EDT)}}

==Compassion==
Good catch on that parody in [[Compassion]]. Thank you. --[[User:JessicaT|KotomiT]][[User talk:JessicaT|''nandeyanen?'']] 07:33, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

You're welcome--[[User:OscarJ|OscarJ]] 07:38, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

== Moronic vandal ==

Thanks for so swiftly catching and reverting the work of that liberal vandal! --[[User:TK|'''₮K''']]/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 01:16, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

You're welcome. Thanks for blocking him. --[[User:OscarJ|OscarJ]] 01:22, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

==Thank you==
It seems I must thank you both for your help with Keijo and for catching my numerous errors. So..... Thank you, [[User:PTaylor|PTaylor]] 13:32, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

You're welcome. Thanks for helping me revert his vandalism --[[User:OscarJ|OscarJ]] 13:36, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

== Vandal reverts, Part II ==

Thanks once again for your efforts! Please post to my talk page in the future, or better yet use the send email function, if one of the Admins doesn't seem to be around. Thanks. --[[User:TK|'''ṬK''']]/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 21:29, 19 June 2009 (EDT)

==Thank you for the welcome==

How do I unblock a page to edit it? The article on scientology needs a lotta work, but there's not edit tab!! I posted on the talk page, but I've heard if you talk to much, they'll ban you! [[User:AliceCurtis|AliceCurtis]] 10:30, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Talk:Scientology

2009-07-04T14:28:28Z

AliceCurtis:

{{Wikiproject Religion}}
== Archives ==

[[Talk:Scientology/Archive1|Archive 1]] [[Talk:Scientology/Archive2|Archive2]]

----

== Typos ==

This article has a couple typos in the first paragraph. "Psychology" should not be capitalized the first time, and the second time it is misspelled and again inappropriately capitalized. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:09, 29 December 2007 (EST)
:Thanks [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:33, 29 December 2007 (EST)

== Hackers? ==
C'mon now, must we call them hackers? And if we must, can we possibly say "Hackers on steroids", add a reference to "Secret Websites", and possibly put in a few pictures of an exploding yellow van? [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 16:49, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:Do you have anything serious to add, or just obscure jokes? If you want to improve the wording please be my guest; I'm only as good as my sources. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 16:55, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::It's not a joke. Hacker carries some unnessecarily dark connotations. The quotes above are from a video from Fox News on this very subject. I can find it for you, if you wish. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 17:02, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:::A link's not necessary, but a straightforward response is always appreciated. What's wrong with the word hacker, what's a better word, and why can't you just change it yourself? The article called them a "hacking group" and I had no reason to call them anything else. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 17:12, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::::Because pretty much any time I try to change something that might be even slightly controversial, I get banned.
::::The word hacker, thanks to the MSM, brings up images of people sabotaging networks/stealing information from the government/what have you. Where I come from, at least.
::::Could simply refer to them as "a group" instead of "a hacking group." [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 18:44, 24 January 2008 (EST)
:::::Well if anyone is confused, they can see [[hacker]], which is wikilinked within the article, and which doesn't bring up images of people sabotaging networks or stealing information. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 19:39, 24 January 2008 (EST)
::::::Alright. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 19:41, 24 January 2008 (EST)
I've removed the reference to hackers. Barikada's complaint was legitimate, and although the link to [[hacker]] should mitigate that if it was necessary to mention it, I couldn't see that there was any real need to mention it. The YouTube video doesn't refer to them as hackers, nor even mention anything to do with computers. Their tactics, just going by the video, seem to lie in other areas. Yes, the other link does refer to hackers, so in that sense the use of the term was justifiable, but it still wasn't necessary. [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 04:10, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:I've never understood people's deal with the word hacker, but I also didn't watch many movies in the late 80's ;-) Is there a better word than simply "group", though, because it's more than just a group of ''people'', right? It's people who are highly skilled in a certain area (namely using computers to illegally and skillfully disrupt other people's computers) and I don't know what word covers that. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 10:00, 25 January 2008 (EST)
::No need to specify computers, given that many Anons are handing out flyers in reality. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 15:44, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:::Err... but flyers don't perfom DoS attacks. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 22:01, 25 January 2008 (EST)
::::Indeed. Which is why I attempted to imply that not all of the activities perpetrated by Anonymous are internet-based. [[User:Barikada|Barikada]] 22:04, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:::::I'll say again, I'm only as good as my sources. I found a source that says they are hackers (and I still don't see why it's inaccurate), and it said nothing about handing out flyers. At any rate, just because they do ''more'' than computer-based attacks doesn't change their core purpose or definition. Nobody's been able to come up with any better word than "group of people". What's so wrong with using descriptive language? [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 22:12, 25 January 2008 (EST)
:::::: "Hackers" is a bit like "Fundamentalists". The origin of the word is good, but it's been appropriated by the media to mean someone bad.
:::::: As far as the legitimacy of its use in this article is concerned, the primary evidence, the video, made no reference to hackers and no reference to computer attacks. The secondary reference, quoting a third source, referred to them as hackers and said that the group had already launched denial of service attacks, but apart from that being their only documented tactic so far, there's no evidence that computer-based tactics are going to be their main mode of attack. In other words, they could be planning on using several approaches, and the denial of service attack just happens to be the first one. Actually, the video seemed to be indicating that a tactic would be infiltration.
:::::: [[User:Philip J. Rayment|Philip J. Rayment]] 02:48, 26 January 2008 (EST)

== A chance? ==
This might be a chance worth making use of. Christianity and Scientology are certinly in opposition, and Scientology has a known way of destroying families by ordering new converts to sever all contact. They will be in the headlines for a time now, and they have a lot of skeletons in their cupboard which until now have been consigned to websites hardly ever seen. Why waste such a chance to spread the truth around, discredit the church, slow its growth, and score one for the real true religion. Im not entirely sure what that is, but its certinly not Scientology looniness. - Suricou Raven, Jan 24th.
: Is it your opinion that Christianity and Scientology are in opposition? Whose opinion is it? The reason I ask is, opposition is not widely stated by Christian Churches. A few even use Scientology methods (it has been in the news). If it is certain, it certainly isn't obvious. Also, the Scientology website claims it is compatible. Whose opinion is that? [[User:TerryO|TerryO]] 00:59, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
Scientology is incompatible with virtually evrey religion in existence in the $cientology book the history of man L Ron states that man evolved from lower life forms. (gasp!) but how they evolved has absolutely no basis in either science or religion. according to Hubbard humans evolved form clams (the sources of our jaw pain and the now disproved Piltdown man. Also im many of his lectures and books he makes his disdain for Jesus Christianity and just about every other major religion. The final blow to the "you can be a Cristian and a $cientoligist" notion. Is the revelation one you spend 200000$ to get to 0t3 is that the memory of Jesus and all the old religions were implanted into the dead alien souls that now inhabit your body by The evil Galactic Lord Xenu. {{unsigned|Craan}}

== Meow ==

Needs a cat. Can a sysop add one? -[[User:Foxtrot|Foxtrot]] 13:23, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

==Cat problem==
Scientology is a religion, not a science. [[User:JY23|JY23]] 17:17, 22 December 2008 (EST)
: Agreed. The category should be changed to "Religion." Funny, whoever put "Pseudoscience," but completely inappropriate for an encyclopedic resource. -[[User:Ilikecake|Ilikecake]] 22:49, 25 December 2008 (EST)

:It's not a religion - it's an evil cult that destroys lives, and we should say so. [[User:Marcdaniels|Marcdaniels]] 16:34, 2 February 2009 (EST)

*For purposes of this encyclopedia, "Scientology" (''no matter what our personal opinions are'') is categorized by most major governments as a religion, including the Government of the United States. CP is an American wiki. End of discussion. --[[User:TK|'''₮K''']]/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 17:37, 23 February 2009 (EST)

== Missing Parenthesis ==
There is a missing parenthesis, and I have bolded where I believe it was meant to be in the following - "Later Hubbard refined his ideas and moved toward a structured system of belief involving the human soul, or "thetan" (each person's spiritual self, and the origins of life and the universe.''')''' [[User:Luminite2|Luminite2]] 12:32, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

== Fair Game ==
Can this article include information on Scientology's Fair Game policy, stating that enemies of the church are "fair game" for being "deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed." -[[User:Birry|Birry]] 07:78, 14 May 2009 (EST)
:I second the motion to include.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 20:09, 14 May 2009 (EDT)
::I support this as well. We need to show the facts about Scientology. [[User:TheRealMattJohnson|TheRealMattJohnson]] 21:29, 14 May 2009 (EDT)
:::I agree with them. [[User:JY23|JY23]] 21:33, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

*Editors can post their suggestions to change here, but I do not support any changes to what we have here, as it opens up Pandora's Box once again. Scientology is a very minor "religion", and without its celebrity members, would never be noticed by anyone. The fact that two socks of previously blocked instigators made accounts to support revisiting this doesn't exactly inspire confidence. --[[User:TK|'''₮K''']]/Admin[[User_Talk:TK|/Talk]] 22:20, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

==Hate to say it==

...but Scientology is no religion! Hubbard made many many comments to the effect of "the easiest way to make money would be to start a religion." This is a proven fact! Religions like Christianity and Judaism have a history of faith capital, if you will. People have died for these beliefs, struggled for them, lived ascetic lifestyles to prove their faith. Scientology, as far as I've ever read of it, is just a religion for famous people like Kabbalah. A majority of them tend to have what my dad calls "Hollywood views", too. [[User:AliceCurtis|AliceCurtis]] 10:28, 4 July 2009 (EDT)