Conservapedia - User contributions [en]

Talk:Overrated Sports Stars

2012-06-28T13:49:37Z

AlexanderSz: /* Becks */

== Some issues with this list ==

I see some issues with this list; as an avid follower of basketball and football, I will attempt to rebut some of the claims made in this article.

*Kobe Bryant (who the article says has not won a championship except under the coaching of Phil Jackson) has played 11 of his 16 seasons under Jackson. He was not the leader of the Lakers his first 3 seasons (that would be Shaq) and was only 17 when he was drafted, so let's write those off. Since then, he played one season (in which he was injured) under Rudy Tomjanovich, and one under Mike Brown. Hardly a large sample size. Say whatever you'd like about him, but he won two championships as the leader of the Lakers without Shaq, lifting an average supporting cast. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::Bryant couldn't win after Jackson left. Enough said. Jackson has a phenomenal record of winning championships no matter whom he's coaching.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::Jackson's been gone for ONE season. One. That is nowhere near a reliable sample size. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::::For what it's worth, Michael Jordan never won a title without Phil Jackson either. I hardly think that takes away from his accomplishments. --[[User:Krayner|Krayner]] 10:53, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

*Magic Johnson is one of the greatest, most versatile players in NBA history, and turned in the greatest Finals performance ever (Game 6 in 1980, when he had 42 points and 15 rebounds in plaee of the injured Kareem at center...as a ROOKIE). Basketball is a team sport and it is rarely fair to attribute most or all of a team's success to one player (although in rare cases that may be done, like Kobe post-Shaq); calling those teams Kareem's is patently false. They belonged to Kareem, Magic, James Worthy, Michael Cooper, Kurt Rambis, and every other player. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::What was Magic's shooting percentage??? Look, Magic with good teammates had trouble beating Bird with nobodys as teammates for the NCAA championship, and Michael Jordan nearly swept Magic when they finally met in an NBA finals.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::Magic primarily played point guard, a position that places much more emphasis on passing. The fact that he averaged 18-20 points a game is a testament to his offensive ability. And of course Jordan is better, he's the best player of all time. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::::Magic shot 52% for his career, an absurdly high number for a point guard, and he is almost without dispute, the greatest point guard in NBA history. He won multiple titles by beating Bird's Celtics in the NBA.--[[User:Krayner|Krayner]] 10:57, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

:The relevant questions are (1) is he rated higher than someone else who's actually better? and (2) is this because of some liberal ideological reason, such as promoting the gay lobby's contention that [[AIDS is not a gay disease]]? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 11:12, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
::Obviously there is no entirely unquestioned ranking of NBA players, but Magic Johnson is rightly regarded as one of the 2 or 3 greatest point guards ever and one of the top 12-15 players ever. And his ranking has nothing to do with politics, and Johnson is not homosexual. He contracted HIV through unprotected sex with a woman. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 11:47, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

*LeBron James (who by any stretch is NOT "far from the best" in the NBA) is certainly one of the top 5 players in the NBA today. And this "overrating" by the media...LeBron has been the villain of the media narrative for the last 2 years since he joined Miami. Do you even wtach ESPN? And Durant is not underrated in the least; again, the media narrative is that he and the Thunder will be contending for a spot in the Finals for years to come (which they will). Plus, he went to a Catholic school. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::LeBron wasn't my addition but the hype for him seems a bit much. Perhaps his unusual name helps.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)\
:::How does his name impact anything at all? [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

*Steve Nash and his 2 MVPs...does the phrase "Most Valuable Player" mean anything? It is awarded to the player judged to be most valuable to his team. Not the best player on the best team...the player most important to his team's success. And Nash was certainly the most valuable to the Suns those years considering his supporting cast. Nash is an extremely inventive, creative point guard and the ultimate team player. Plus, he produced a documentary about famed conservative runner Terry Fox. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::MVP is by popular vote by ... the [[lamestream media]]. It's like the Academy Awards and Nobel Prize -- being liberal is worth more than being talented.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::NBA MVPs will always more likely be liberal because the league is so heavily black. For comparison, let's look at the last 20 NFL MVPs (awarded by an AP poll of "liberal media", as you would call them). Republican Favre thrice, Steve Young (a relative of Brigham Young, for crying out loud) twice, Manning 4 times, Christian Aaron Rodgers once, outspoken Christian Kurt Warner twice...that's 60% of the MVPs from 1992-2011. Clearly your argument fails. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

*Peyton Manning...the MVP stuff from above holds true in the NFL. Yes, he won 1 Super Bowl, but he made another and had to deal with the Steelers and Patriots in the AFC (hardly weak competition). He is one of the smartest football minds to ever play the game, and no serious football analyst would claim he was a downgrade from Tebow. Not one. And he's a Republican.
::The maneuver to replace Tebow with Peyton in a [[swing state]] in an election year is transparent, wouldn't you say?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::...so John Elway, a Republican, apparently isn't concerned with his team primarily and traded his Republican starting QB once he acquired an even better Republican quarterback? Your argument makes no sense. Elway is a Republican but not a national political figure. None of this has anything to do with politics. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::: So anything that occurs in a [[swing state]] during an election year is a political maneuver? Well, it rained today in Florida. Clearly a plot by Obama to gather more votes. --[[User:MatthewQ|MatthewQ]] 14:12, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

::::: I wasn't being entirely serious with my "wouldn't you say?" comment above, but even some jokes can carry a germ of truth. Colorado is very polarized politically and ideologically, as a swing state, and there was pressure to find a substitute who could serve as a plausible reason to trade Tebow away. Florida is not as much of a [[swing state]] as Colorado, and rain is not the result of political pressure!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:13, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
:::::: If you weren't being entirely serious then why did you write the thing about Tebow being traded from a swing state during an election year in the article?! Or is Conservapedia openly a satire site now? (Many people seem to think it is one.) Anyway, the evidence that political pressure having anything to do with Tebow being trade is just as strong as political pressure being responsible for the rain. --[[User:MatthewQ|MatthewQ]] 16:40, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

:::::::The entry is obviously about the ''hype'', the ''overrated'' aspect. Peyton Manning was overrated earlier this year in connection with replacing Tebow.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:44, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::How exactly was Manning overrated in this case? Please tell me using your knowledge of football, not your political views. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:05, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

*Mark Sanchez...say what you will, but he's been to 2 AFC Championship games, Tebow none. I will acknowledge his below average play last season (I'm not the biggest fan of him) but it would be suicidal for Rex Ryan to bench him in favor of a new acquisition who completed 46% of his passes last season. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::Not my addition, but I bet Tebow is replacing him by mid-season, but the replacement should occur before the first regular season game, if it weren't for liberal politics.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::Please tell me specifically how "liberal politics" is keeping Sanchez as the starter, and use your knowlege of football to tell me why Tebow would be a better starter than Sanchez. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

== Becks ==

I follow US soccer closely and have never seen David Beckham promoted as he is Pele. He is one of the best, probably top 3, free kick takers to have played the sport. This is shown by his stats. I don't see how he is overrated when he actually is a fantastic athlete. He has six Premier League titles, 2 FA Cup titles, 4 FA community shields, 2 MLS supporters shields , an MLS Cup.. the list goes on and on (that doesn't include lengthy list of personal honors he has received.) I am seriously curious as to how he is overrated. --[[User:DanJG|DanJG]] 13:25, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
:With respect, I think you are missing the point. This list has nothing to do with sporting achievements. Rather it has to do with whether the athletes involved are deserving of the praise they receive. Beckham, due to his promotion of [[Hollywood Values]] does not deserve the accolades he has acquired. --[[User:DamianJohn|DamianJohn]] 09:07, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
::Athletes should be praised, or criticized, for the job they do on whatever sporting field they participate in - that's their job, and that's how they should be rated. Period. Everything else is just petty gossipmongering. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 09:18, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
:::With regards to DamianJohn's comments... I believe this list should have everything to do with their sporting achievements. It is called "Overrated Sports Stars". Unless the point is just to list every sports player that votes on the Democrat ticket. If that is the case, the title of the page should be changed. --[[User:DanJG|DanJG]] 11:29, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

Beckham is a famous celebrity because he has a hot wife. However, his promotion as a football player is different. He is genuinely considered a great player, his teammates always speak very highly of his ability to be a team player (more important than if your team wins) [[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 09:49, 28 June 2012 (EDT)

== Quick question about standards... ==

Are these athletes overrated based on their entire career, or just based on the last years of it, as they age and their skills fade due to injuries and/or age? Truly, the only ''fair'' way to judge someone is based on the entirety of their career, as objectively as possible. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 14:47, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

== Tiger Woods? ==

I know that Tiger Woods is not well liked and that people here enjoy seeing him fail, but his achievements still place him in the upper echelons of golfers for all time

:Yes, he merits a place on the all-time list, but he is no longer one of the very top golfers currently playing. Yet the media still claim that he is one of the favorites, or "can't be written off", going into each big tournament, at the expense of giving coverage to other players who actually have a much better chance.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:23, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

::So, is it a terrible thing to root for someone who was once on top of their game, but now is struggling? Isn't that what all of us do in our daily lives - struggle? Should we sneer at others when they go through something difficult, or should we show support? --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 09:32, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:::Ok I understand. Based on that outline I've added Michael Schumacher

::::No, we shouldn't sneer. I'm not advocating sneering. But we ought to be realistic about his chances, which are small, and the media often aren't. That's the definition of being overrated.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 10:01, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:::::Sorry - this is sneering as far as I'm concerned. Either that, or gloating as a once-great player stumbles. Dissing someone because someone else (the media) likes them is petty and is certainly not Christ-like. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 10:13, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:::::: If Tiger's chances are slim, wouldn't he then be the underdog? Didn't this site [[Mystery:Why_Do_Atheists_Dislike_Underdogs%3F|not too long ago]] claim that rooting for the [[underdog|underdog]] was a Christian characteristic? So in that sense, the media is hyping the underdog.. if Tiger's chances of winning are small. --[[User:DanJG|DanJG]] 11:35, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

== More removals ==

I removed Wayne Gretzky and Sol Campbell, because neither is particularly overrated. Also Bradman, which was obviously a frivolous addition - it criticised him for "not achieving anything for decades", when he retired decades ago and died in 2001.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 10:07, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:I've re-added Sol Campbell as Conservative himself at one point reverted the page to the edit where I added him, so it must be fine. To make the case more robust, I've added a statement about how he has played for the top Soccer clubs.

::He's only played for one top club, which is Arsenal. Spurs weren't so successful back when he played for them, which was essentially why he left.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:40, 27 June 2012 (EDT)

== Wow, you guys don't know sports do you... ==

Ok, let's start from the top

1) Oh, so Agassi isn't as good as the second greatest player to ever step foot on a court, therefore he is over rated? Agassi is compared to Sampras because their rivalry was a classic. No one acts as though Agassi is far superior to Sampra, and you cannot deny his results considering he won 8 slams and was a world number 1 (a title given based on a completely unbiased scoring system of points).

2) Beckham is famous for being clutch with free kicks and penalty shots, as well as being in the right place at the right time. He is perhaps the only justified member of this list.

3) Not sure how you can compare Jeremy Lin to Kobe Bryant. One has had one good season, the other has proven to be a deadly scoring threat with multiple clutch shots under his belt. Winning titles in the NBA relies on more than one player (Jordan didn't win it without Pippen and a good supporting cast), so saying he can't win w/o help is a crap argument. And again saying he is not as good as the best player who ever played hardly makes him over-rated, his FG percentage is only 3 points lower than Jordan's career average.

4) His status as the best player in the league is a topic of debate yes, but his showcase of skills (averaging a triple double in the finals) proves he's hardly over-rated. His ability to lock-down Durant and not suffer the same fate to Durant would also seem to indicate a more balanced game from Mr. James. Also, you followed sports at ALL, you would know that a common complaint about ESPN is that they show both James AND Durant far too much love.

5) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you are so silly. This doesn't even bear arguing, just look at his stats and performances. Again, no one wins it alone, and they were battling the legendary Big Three of Boston.

6)...Wow, just, wow. Ok, let's start with a (then) record of 49 TDs. Then lets look at the fact that he's thrown for over 4,000 yards in every season but two...one of which was his rookie. Then let's also look at the fact that he lost a lot of playoff games to the Patriots, a modern dynasty. Do you think Dan Marino sucks because he could never get that championship? He is acknowledged as one of the few (perhaps only) QBs essentially calling their own plays in the NFL today and, oh yeah, he can actually read coverage. Tim Tebow on the other hand, while an exciting athlete, has demonstrated that he doesn't make the best football decisions, trusting his feet more than his arm. That doesn't win. Peyton Manning has HoF numbers and skills, you would have to be an idiot (or have Tom Brady) not to CONSIDER having him as your QB.

7) Sooo, if you're not a champion, than you cannot be the most valuable cog in a team? Steve Nash's picks were based on his ability to facilitate play and move offenses and his stats speak for themselves. Again, if championships are the only barometer with which you measure, then Trent Dilfer is on par with Joe Namath.

8) Sanchez is the starter, Tebow is the back-up. Coaches decisions, end of discussion. The media can have its say, but ultimately the coaches decide who starts. However, as pointed out before, Tebow's football decisions are questionable, that is why he is the back-up.

9) He's two majors from the Golden Bear, and was THE dominant player for a decade. Kind of hard to ignore.

10) At one point he was the number one driver in the world, again, hard to ignore.

All-in-all, your list is entirely based on sports starts being liberal or (in the case of Manning and Sanchez) for taking the job away from Tebow. Your transparetly flawed list doesn't seem to take into account that the ranking of sports stars rarely reflects their political leanings, but rather their performance on the field and, in cases, their rapport with sports media. [[User:FernandoTorez|FernandoTorez]] 19:06, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:You mistyped Torres, "Fernando".--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:37, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
::Way to skip the content slick. I know how Fernando Torres is spelled, but I am not him, nor do I claim to be him. Now, could you please at least try to address why these people are in this article? [[User:FernandoTorez|FernandoTorez]] 18:08, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
:::I know you aren't him, duh, and I realise that you aren't claiming to be him. What you are doing is laughing behind your handkerchief at your own cleverness in choosing a silly pseudonym that most Americans wouldn't pick up on. Well, you have been busted!--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 06:43, 28 June 2012 (EDT)

== Kobe Bryant not as valuable as Jeremy Lin ==

Is this a joke?--[[User:Krayner|Krayner]] 09:06, 27 June 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Overrated Sports Stars

2012-06-28T13:49:10Z

AlexanderSz: /* Becks */

== Some issues with this list ==

I see some issues with this list; as an avid follower of basketball and football, I will attempt to rebut some of the claims made in this article.

*Kobe Bryant (who the article says has not won a championship except under the coaching of Phil Jackson) has played 11 of his 16 seasons under Jackson. He was not the leader of the Lakers his first 3 seasons (that would be Shaq) and was only 17 when he was drafted, so let's write those off. Since then, he played one season (in which he was injured) under Rudy Tomjanovich, and one under Mike Brown. Hardly a large sample size. Say whatever you'd like about him, but he won two championships as the leader of the Lakers without Shaq, lifting an average supporting cast. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::Bryant couldn't win after Jackson left. Enough said. Jackson has a phenomenal record of winning championships no matter whom he's coaching.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::Jackson's been gone for ONE season. One. That is nowhere near a reliable sample size. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::::For what it's worth, Michael Jordan never won a title without Phil Jackson either. I hardly think that takes away from his accomplishments. --[[User:Krayner|Krayner]] 10:53, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

*Magic Johnson is one of the greatest, most versatile players in NBA history, and turned in the greatest Finals performance ever (Game 6 in 1980, when he had 42 points and 15 rebounds in plaee of the injured Kareem at center...as a ROOKIE). Basketball is a team sport and it is rarely fair to attribute most or all of a team's success to one player (although in rare cases that may be done, like Kobe post-Shaq); calling those teams Kareem's is patently false. They belonged to Kareem, Magic, James Worthy, Michael Cooper, Kurt Rambis, and every other player. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::What was Magic's shooting percentage??? Look, Magic with good teammates had trouble beating Bird with nobodys as teammates for the NCAA championship, and Michael Jordan nearly swept Magic when they finally met in an NBA finals.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::Magic primarily played point guard, a position that places much more emphasis on passing. The fact that he averaged 18-20 points a game is a testament to his offensive ability. And of course Jordan is better, he's the best player of all time. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::::Magic shot 52% for his career, an absurdly high number for a point guard, and he is almost without dispute, the greatest point guard in NBA history. He won multiple titles by beating Bird's Celtics in the NBA.--[[User:Krayner|Krayner]] 10:57, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

:The relevant questions are (1) is he rated higher than someone else who's actually better? and (2) is this because of some liberal ideological reason, such as promoting the gay lobby's contention that [[AIDS is not a gay disease]]? --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 11:12, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
::Obviously there is no entirely unquestioned ranking of NBA players, but Magic Johnson is rightly regarded as one of the 2 or 3 greatest point guards ever and one of the top 12-15 players ever. And his ranking has nothing to do with politics, and Johnson is not homosexual. He contracted HIV through unprotected sex with a woman. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 11:47, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

*LeBron James (who by any stretch is NOT "far from the best" in the NBA) is certainly one of the top 5 players in the NBA today. And this "overrating" by the media...LeBron has been the villain of the media narrative for the last 2 years since he joined Miami. Do you even wtach ESPN? And Durant is not underrated in the least; again, the media narrative is that he and the Thunder will be contending for a spot in the Finals for years to come (which they will). Plus, he went to a Catholic school. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::LeBron wasn't my addition but the hype for him seems a bit much. Perhaps his unusual name helps.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)\
:::How does his name impact anything at all? [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

*Steve Nash and his 2 MVPs...does the phrase "Most Valuable Player" mean anything? It is awarded to the player judged to be most valuable to his team. Not the best player on the best team...the player most important to his team's success. And Nash was certainly the most valuable to the Suns those years considering his supporting cast. Nash is an extremely inventive, creative point guard and the ultimate team player. Plus, he produced a documentary about famed conservative runner Terry Fox. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::MVP is by popular vote by ... the [[lamestream media]]. It's like the Academy Awards and Nobel Prize -- being liberal is worth more than being talented.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::NBA MVPs will always more likely be liberal because the league is so heavily black. For comparison, let's look at the last 20 NFL MVPs (awarded by an AP poll of "liberal media", as you would call them). Republican Favre thrice, Steve Young (a relative of Brigham Young, for crying out loud) twice, Manning 4 times, Christian Aaron Rodgers once, outspoken Christian Kurt Warner twice...that's 60% of the MVPs from 1992-2011. Clearly your argument fails. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

*Peyton Manning...the MVP stuff from above holds true in the NFL. Yes, he won 1 Super Bowl, but he made another and had to deal with the Steelers and Patriots in the AFC (hardly weak competition). He is one of the smartest football minds to ever play the game, and no serious football analyst would claim he was a downgrade from Tebow. Not one. And he's a Republican.
::The maneuver to replace Tebow with Peyton in a [[swing state]] in an election year is transparent, wouldn't you say?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::...so John Elway, a Republican, apparently isn't concerned with his team primarily and traded his Republican starting QB once he acquired an even better Republican quarterback? Your argument makes no sense. Elway is a Republican but not a national political figure. None of this has anything to do with politics. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::: So anything that occurs in a [[swing state]] during an election year is a political maneuver? Well, it rained today in Florida. Clearly a plot by Obama to gather more votes. --[[User:MatthewQ|MatthewQ]] 14:12, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

::::: I wasn't being entirely serious with my "wouldn't you say?" comment above, but even some jokes can carry a germ of truth. Colorado is very polarized politically and ideologically, as a swing state, and there was pressure to find a substitute who could serve as a plausible reason to trade Tebow away. Florida is not as much of a [[swing state]] as Colorado, and rain is not the result of political pressure!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:13, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
:::::: If you weren't being entirely serious then why did you write the thing about Tebow being traded from a swing state during an election year in the article?! Or is Conservapedia openly a satire site now? (Many people seem to think it is one.) Anyway, the evidence that political pressure having anything to do with Tebow being trade is just as strong as political pressure being responsible for the rain. --[[User:MatthewQ|MatthewQ]] 16:40, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

:::::::The entry is obviously about the ''hype'', the ''overrated'' aspect. Peyton Manning was overrated earlier this year in connection with replacing Tebow.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 16:44, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::How exactly was Manning overrated in this case? Please tell me using your knowledge of football, not your political views. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:05, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

*Mark Sanchez...say what you will, but he's been to 2 AFC Championship games, Tebow none. I will acknowledge his below average play last season (I'm not the biggest fan of him) but it would be suicidal for Rex Ryan to bench him in favor of a new acquisition who completed 46% of his passes last season. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
::Not my addition, but I bet Tebow is replacing him by mid-season, but the replacement should occur before the first regular season game, if it weren't for liberal politics.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
:::Please tell me specifically how "liberal politics" is keeping Sanchez as the starter, and use your knowlege of football to tell me why Tebow would be a better starter than Sanchez. [[User:AndrewTompkins|AndrewTompkins]] 22:42, 24 June 2012 (EDT)

== Becks ==

I follow US soccer closely and have never seen David Beckham promoted as he is Pele. He is one of the best, probably top 3, free kick takers to have played the sport. This is shown by his stats. I don't see how he is overrated when he actually is a fantastic athlete. He has six Premier League titles, 2 FA Cup titles, 4 FA community shields, 2 MLS supporters shields , an MLS Cup.. the list goes on and on (that doesn't include lengthy list of personal honors he has received.) I am seriously curious as to how he is overrated. --[[User:DanJG|DanJG]] 13:25, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
:With respect, I think you are missing the point. This list has nothing to do with sporting achievements. Rather it has to do with whether the athletes involved are deserving of the praise they receive. Beckham, due to his promotion of [[Hollywood Values]] does not deserve the accolades he has acquired. --[[User:DamianJohn|DamianJohn]] 09:07, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
::Athletes should be praised, or criticized, for the job they do on whatever sporting field they participate in - that's their job, and that's how they should be rated. Period. Everything else is just petty gossipmongering. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 09:18, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
:::With regards to DamianJohn's comments... I believe this list should have everything to do with their sporting achievements. It is called "Overrated Sports Stars". Unless the point is just to list every sports player that votes on the Democrat ticket. If that is the case, the title of the page should be changed. --[[User:DanJG|DanJG]] 11:29, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
Beckham is a famous celebrity because he has a hot wife. However, his promotion as a football player is different. He is genuinely considered a great player, his teammates always speak very highly of his ability to be a team player (more important than if your team wins) [[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 09:49, 28 June 2012 (EDT)

== Quick question about standards... ==

Are these athletes overrated based on their entire career, or just based on the last years of it, as they age and their skills fade due to injuries and/or age? Truly, the only ''fair'' way to judge someone is based on the entirety of their career, as objectively as possible. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 14:47, 25 June 2012 (EDT)

== Tiger Woods? ==

I know that Tiger Woods is not well liked and that people here enjoy seeing him fail, but his achievements still place him in the upper echelons of golfers for all time

:Yes, he merits a place on the all-time list, but he is no longer one of the very top golfers currently playing. Yet the media still claim that he is one of the favorites, or "can't be written off", going into each big tournament, at the expense of giving coverage to other players who actually have a much better chance.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:23, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

::So, is it a terrible thing to root for someone who was once on top of their game, but now is struggling? Isn't that what all of us do in our daily lives - struggle? Should we sneer at others when they go through something difficult, or should we show support? --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 09:32, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:::Ok I understand. Based on that outline I've added Michael Schumacher

::::No, we shouldn't sneer. I'm not advocating sneering. But we ought to be realistic about his chances, which are small, and the media often aren't. That's the definition of being overrated.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 10:01, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:::::Sorry - this is sneering as far as I'm concerned. Either that, or gloating as a once-great player stumbles. Dissing someone because someone else (the media) likes them is petty and is certainly not Christ-like. --[[User:SharonW|SharonW]] 10:13, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:::::: If Tiger's chances are slim, wouldn't he then be the underdog? Didn't this site [[Mystery:Why_Do_Atheists_Dislike_Underdogs%3F|not too long ago]] claim that rooting for the [[underdog|underdog]] was a Christian characteristic? So in that sense, the media is hyping the underdog.. if Tiger's chances of winning are small. --[[User:DanJG|DanJG]] 11:35, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

== More removals ==

I removed Wayne Gretzky and Sol Campbell, because neither is particularly overrated. Also Bradman, which was obviously a frivolous addition - it criticised him for "not achieving anything for decades", when he retired decades ago and died in 2001.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 10:07, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:I've re-added Sol Campbell as Conservative himself at one point reverted the page to the edit where I added him, so it must be fine. To make the case more robust, I've added a statement about how he has played for the top Soccer clubs.

::He's only played for one top club, which is Arsenal. Spurs weren't so successful back when he played for them, which was essentially why he left.--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:40, 27 June 2012 (EDT)

== Wow, you guys don't know sports do you... ==

Ok, let's start from the top

1) Oh, so Agassi isn't as good as the second greatest player to ever step foot on a court, therefore he is over rated? Agassi is compared to Sampras because their rivalry was a classic. No one acts as though Agassi is far superior to Sampra, and you cannot deny his results considering he won 8 slams and was a world number 1 (a title given based on a completely unbiased scoring system of points).

2) Beckham is famous for being clutch with free kicks and penalty shots, as well as being in the right place at the right time. He is perhaps the only justified member of this list.

3) Not sure how you can compare Jeremy Lin to Kobe Bryant. One has had one good season, the other has proven to be a deadly scoring threat with multiple clutch shots under his belt. Winning titles in the NBA relies on more than one player (Jordan didn't win it without Pippen and a good supporting cast), so saying he can't win w/o help is a crap argument. And again saying he is not as good as the best player who ever played hardly makes him over-rated, his FG percentage is only 3 points lower than Jordan's career average.

4) His status as the best player in the league is a topic of debate yes, but his showcase of skills (averaging a triple double in the finals) proves he's hardly over-rated. His ability to lock-down Durant and not suffer the same fate to Durant would also seem to indicate a more balanced game from Mr. James. Also, you followed sports at ALL, you would know that a common complaint about ESPN is that they show both James AND Durant far too much love.

5) AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, you are so silly. This doesn't even bear arguing, just look at his stats and performances. Again, no one wins it alone, and they were battling the legendary Big Three of Boston.

6)...Wow, just, wow. Ok, let's start with a (then) record of 49 TDs. Then lets look at the fact that he's thrown for over 4,000 yards in every season but two...one of which was his rookie. Then let's also look at the fact that he lost a lot of playoff games to the Patriots, a modern dynasty. Do you think Dan Marino sucks because he could never get that championship? He is acknowledged as one of the few (perhaps only) QBs essentially calling their own plays in the NFL today and, oh yeah, he can actually read coverage. Tim Tebow on the other hand, while an exciting athlete, has demonstrated that he doesn't make the best football decisions, trusting his feet more than his arm. That doesn't win. Peyton Manning has HoF numbers and skills, you would have to be an idiot (or have Tom Brady) not to CONSIDER having him as your QB.

7) Sooo, if you're not a champion, than you cannot be the most valuable cog in a team? Steve Nash's picks were based on his ability to facilitate play and move offenses and his stats speak for themselves. Again, if championships are the only barometer with which you measure, then Trent Dilfer is on par with Joe Namath.

8) Sanchez is the starter, Tebow is the back-up. Coaches decisions, end of discussion. The media can have its say, but ultimately the coaches decide who starts. However, as pointed out before, Tebow's football decisions are questionable, that is why he is the back-up.

9) He's two majors from the Golden Bear, and was THE dominant player for a decade. Kind of hard to ignore.

10) At one point he was the number one driver in the world, again, hard to ignore.

All-in-all, your list is entirely based on sports starts being liberal or (in the case of Manning and Sanchez) for taking the job away from Tebow. Your transparetly flawed list doesn't seem to take into account that the ranking of sports stars rarely reflects their political leanings, but rather their performance on the field and, in cases, their rapport with sports media. [[User:FernandoTorez|FernandoTorez]] 19:06, 26 June 2012 (EDT)

:You mistyped Torres, "Fernando".--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 09:37, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
::Way to skip the content slick. I know how Fernando Torres is spelled, but I am not him, nor do I claim to be him. Now, could you please at least try to address why these people are in this article? [[User:FernandoTorez|FernandoTorez]] 18:08, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
:::I know you aren't him, duh, and I realise that you aren't claiming to be him. What you are doing is laughing behind your handkerchief at your own cleverness in choosing a silly pseudonym that most Americans wouldn't pick up on. Well, you have been busted!--[[User:CPalmer|CPalmer]] 06:43, 28 June 2012 (EDT)

== Kobe Bryant not as valuable as Jeremy Lin ==

Is this a joke?--[[User:Krayner|Krayner]] 09:06, 27 June 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Essay:Greatest Conservative Songs

2012-03-30T22:29:40Z

AlexanderSz: the offspring should be on this list

See [http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzZkNDU5MmViNzVjNzkzMDE3NzNlN2MyZjRjYTk4YjE= this]. [[User:Stryker|Stryker]] 10:04, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

: The [[neoconservative]] ''National Review'' list is 95% garbage, not [[conservative]] at all. I only found one tune on the list that should be added ours ("Stand by your man"), and National Review had it at #50.

: The contrast here with ''National Review'' illustrates the need for ''Conservapedia''. But thanks for your link.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:31, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Oops... it seems that I added a bunch of songs from that list. Several of mine (Brick, Red Barchetta, I Can't Drive 55, Sweet Home Alabama, and Revolution 1) were on there. That's interesting, though... the NR person and I thought alike on this one. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 17:16, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Sweet Home Alabama? I love that song (and I'm a liberal)! Revolution's great, too.--[[User:Autofire|Autofire]] 18:29, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Sorry? Why was my entry for The Fall's Pseud Mag Ed removed? They have always been the great deflators of liberal complacency. What is going on?

: Post a link to the lyrics of the song here and we'll see. Also, please sign your entries by using the signature button in the row above the edit box. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:16, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

Can a song possibly be just a song, rather than a political statement? - BornAgainBrit

: Uh, sure, there are songs that lack any meaning at all. "I wanna hold your hand," for example, is a pleasant jingle from your homeland. I trust we'd agree that it is not the most meaningful song in the world. That tune is fun for reminiscing.

: But surely you don't deny that many songs do have political meaning. [[Liberal]] attempts to deny political bias are familiar to us and no one here is fooled. Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:37, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

The deletion of Bob Dylan's song was not properly explained. Observing that people serve either the devil or the Lord is a conservative observation, and of course Bob Dylan was a born-again Christian who expressed his faith in song (but don't expect [[liberals]] to tell you that).--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 00:03, 21 July 2007 (EDT)

:I didn't mean to step on any toes, but apathy towards devil worship doesn't seem to me like a very conservative trait. Unfortunately, the verses of the songs don't give us ''any'' meaning whatsoever, so the only meaning we can glean from the song are the four lines of the chorus, three of which are essentially the same :/ [[User:Jazzman831|Jazzman831]] 14:06, 21 July 2007 (EDT)

::Paradise by the Dashboard light? I know its a song about having pre-marital sex, but the end is about how it screwed up his life.--[[User:Elamdri|Elamdri]] 04:45, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

After reading this list, I've gotta ask, just how do you define a 'conservative' song?--[[User:Offeep|Offeep]] 15:27, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

: [[Conservative]] is a term that is well-understood. A "conservative song" reflects some of those values without diluting them with a [[liberal]] message.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:42, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

I can't believe Okie from Muskogie isn't on here. [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 23:23, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

I know this is being nitpicky, but I don't like the message of Last Kiss because it seems to suggest a works salvation, that one gets to heaven by doing good rather than accepting Jesus. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 23:30, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

:... and on that note, let's open up a can of [[Mountain Dew]] and get ready to [[Debate:Are we saved by faith or works?]] --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 17:16, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

==Last Kiss==
Somebody just put up "Last Kiss;" actually I recall when it was a hit circa 1964 many adults, parents, teachers and ministers where horrified that a song about death was considered appropriate for young people. My my, how things had changed by 1967.... [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:08, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

Just like 'Teen Angel,' 'Leader of the Pack,' 'Dead Man's Curve,' and 'Tell Laura I Love Her.' [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 00:35, 29 July 2007 (EDT)

==Possible Addition==

Ok, I have a suggestion, but I want some feedback before putting it on the page. I was listening to the radio today, and Another Brick in the Wall by Pink Floyd came on. I was thinking that the song talks about the way that public schools brainwash children and turn them into "bricks" in the wall that is liberal society. In a way, the song is pro-homeschooling, because it's teachers that need to leave the kids alone so that parents can instruct their children correctly. Maybe I'm reaching a bit here, but I wanted to see what you all thought. [[User:SSchultz|SSchultz]] 00:23, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

: I'm open to comments and suggestions about this, but I've never viewed the famous song "another brick in the wall" as conservative. You may be right that the song properly complains about the effect of schooling, but the song doesn't offer any conservative solution that I can see.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 01:10, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

::"Another Brick In The Wall" is more of a neutral song. Its part of a concept album in which the main character slowly seperates himself from society. Most Pink Floyd songs are about madness, due to their original lead singer going insane. [[User:TobyKeet|TobyKeet]] 05:32, 24 November 2010 (EST)

==Love Me, I'm a Liberal==

:I'm glad the commies were thrown out
:Of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board

Hardly sounds like a Communist critique. Have you read all the lyrics of the song? [http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics/liberal.html] It's twitting liberals for their supposed concern for others, which is actually sorely lacking. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 17:14, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

:That song is pure sarcasm and Ochs assumes the role of a 1960s-era (Cold War era) "liberal" to attack them from the extreme left in a sarcastic way. Read the lyrics again, he is attacking the AFL-CIO for throwing out the commies. He is saying liberals aren't far left ''enough''. It's not a conservative song, it's an extreme leftist one. [[User:Parrothead|Parrothead]] 17:22, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

So there's a song on this list about breaking the law 'I can't Drive 55,' and one about obeying the law 'I fought the law.' Which is the conservative value? And the Bobby Fuller Four's version of the latter was the superior version, BTW. [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 10:40, 10 September 2007 (EDT)
I hope I did not misunderstand. Do these songs have to be OK'd before posting?

There are several on this list that really do not belong on a Conservative music list. Really, REO Keep on loving you?
I got the message and now know I should not add foot notes regarding my thoughts on songs I don't believe belong.
I have been sharing Conservapedia with many of my Conservative FB friends. Many on't know about it.
Several have said the list was not really Conservative.
I know some popular, Conservative musicians and they write nothing but Conservative music.
I hope it was OK that I added some educational songs to the list.
I love Conservapedia! Wikipedia is so liberal. When you read about Van Jones there, he's a great guy!
Thank God for Conservapedia.

== Are these truly conservative? ==

While I understand completely some of these songs being on here, I don't really understand the why Bob Dylan, The Beatles, or Ben Folds (Five) would be on this list. These individual songs may be able to be warped into our mindset, but if one truly looks at these, they become overwhelmingly liberal.

For example: The Beatles - Revolution
While this song does indeed talk about how "Carrying pictures of Chairman Mao" will do no good, it also talks about how war and money can't solve problems. In addition, if a child is to read tis and decide to find out more about The Beatles, they will undoubtedly find some intensely liberal themes. The same idea goes for Bob Dylan. Look at any of his other songs. At the same time, Ben Folds does exactly the same thing.

I cannot argue with the songs and parts on this list, but I wonder if this is a slippery slope?
::It's possible that many of these songs were adopted by conservatives, such as Mike Huckabee playing John Cougar Mellencamp's hits. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 14:48, 18 February 2008 (EST)

: Many of the songs here have a powerful [[conservative]] message, and demonstrate that the music industry does not have to be [[liberal]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:00, 18 February 2008 (EST)

: P.S. [[Liberals]] do say [[conservative]] things from time to time. We're listing songs here, not artists.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:01, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I would just like add that Revolution 1 was written as a reaction against the protesters against the Vietnam War who were getting violent. All Revolution is saying is for the protesters to protest, but not violently, which is still liberal, but a message than other liberal songs. However, for other Beatles songs, they range from being liberal (Why Don't We Do It in the Road?) to be being kind of conservative (Let It Be). Most however, are pretty much neutral. You usually kind Paul McCartney as being more concervative, and Lennon as liberal. [[User:TobyKeet|TobyKeet]] 05:28, 24 November 2010 (EST)

:One problem with the above analysis: Why Don't We Do It In the Road was McCartney's; Lennon was rather famously not involved at all. Personally I've always thought of it as a kind of parody of the free love movement, though apparently that wasn't McCartney's intention. [[User:Ptorquemada|Ptorquemada]] 17:25, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

== In Your Eyes ==

Okay, the song can be considered to be about God, but that alone does not make it conservative. I think Peter Gabriel himself would object to the song's inclusion in this list. --[[User:MakeTomorrow|MakeTomorrow]] 15:23, 18 February 2008 (EST)

: Peter Gabriel can object all he likes. "In Your Eyes" appeals to conservative values, as in "a thousand churches." Do you think we should object when a liberal says something conservative???--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:27, 18 February 2008 (EST)
::Religion is not conservative. Fundamentalism is, but not religion. The presence of religion in a song does not make it conservative, even as adherence to religion does not make a person conservative. Look at me, I'm a Christian, but I'm also a communist. Obviously the two are not mutually exclusive. One's personal merely interpersonally-social morals under religion might be more "conservative", in the loosest sense of the term — not conservative, simply somewhat more so — than they would be otherwise; however, that does not automatically make one politically conservative.--[[User:MakeTomorrow|MakeTomorrow]] 15:50, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::: The single best predictor of how conservative someone votes is how often he attends a place of worship of God. Your argument suggesting that you are a counterexample to that correlation means nothing. See point #2 in [[liberal logic]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:04, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::::That wasn't irrelevant at all. Correlation != causation. --[[User:MakeTomorrow|MakeTomorrow]] 16:08, 18 February 2008 (EST)
::::Sorry, my edit summary should have been "basic statistical interpretation". --[[User:MakeTomorrow|MakeTomorrow]] 16:09, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::::: Why did you cite your counterexample, if it wasn't an example of the logical fallacy #2 in [[liberal logic]]? Do you really think a counterexample disproves causation?

==Land of Confusion==
Does Genesis' ''Land of Confusion'' belong on the list? I remember the music video portraying Ronald Reagan (in puppet form) as inept, and it parodies several conservative leaders, including Margaret Thatcher, et. al. [[User:WesleyS|WesleyS]][[User Talk:WesleyS|Hello!]] 13:58, 5 March 2009 (EST)

: It's liberal lyric of "too many people" is enough reason to bounce it from the list. Thanks for catching this.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:53, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Should Fortunate Son really be on this list?==

It's vehemently anti-war. Please correct if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a very conservative belief. [[User:JRobbe|JRobbe]]

:I just looked the lyrics. Pretty confused stuff. I'd agree it's not conservative. Would you like to toss it from the list? Please feel free to do so.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:26, 7 January 2010 (EST)

:Done. [[User:JRobbe|JRobbe]]

== Long Black Train by Josh Turner? ==

To me, this song seems like a good candidate for this list. --[[User:Dfrischknecht|Dfrischknecht]] 07:14, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

== The Decision by Ricky Van Shelton ==

I think this is another good candidate for this list. It's a song about a teenage girl who gives in to peer pressure and gets pregnant and the consequences of that action. --[[User:Dfrischknecht|Dfrischknecht]] 09:02, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

== New Agey ==

I removed the new agey phrase of "the cycle of life, death and rebirth," for the "Lightning Crashes," by Live, but feel free to discuss here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:23, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

: That wasn't meant to seem "new agey" in the least, but I do understand what you're saying. The song presents a view of life as being cyclical, as the baby is being born an old woman dies, and "The confusion that was hers belongs now to the baby down the hall." I think the lyrics really speak to the significance of life (not just at childbirth), but as a whole. I don't think the song is necessarily about the old woman being reincarnated as the newborn child, but it definitely seems to speak of the circle of life.[[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 15:56, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

:: Perhaps a rewording would work then? How about replacing "the cycle of life, death and rebirth" with "the joy of childbirth in contrast with the end of life"?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:59, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

::: I agree that a rewording would work, thank you for working with me. Perhaps we could just say that the song celebrates the significance of life from birth until death, almost in an as one door closes another opens kind of way? [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 20:00, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

== Song idea ==

"One Man, One Woman" sung by ABBA. Indirectly a tribute to traditional marriage and monogamy.--[[User:TedM|TedM]] 12:14, 12 January 2011 (EST)

: Sounds good by the title, so how about adding it where you think it would be appropriate in the list? Thanks for your insight.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:17, 12 January 2011 (EST)

== Takin' Care of Business ==

This song by BTO is on the list for supporting "Hard work ethic", but its not. The refrain is jokingly ironic. "I love to work at nothing all day; and I've been taking care of business"

The body of the song describes a more easy going life just making music rather than waking up early, catching trains for work, etc.

I'm not saying it makes the song liberal, and not sure why its even necessary to classify songs along political lines, but it sure as heck ain't about working hard.
I'd suggest if someone wants to keep it here because its a good song, and if people can only enjoy it because it conforms to their political views, than change the reason to "Mike Huckabee performed the song" [comment by AndrewJackson]

:You left out how the song praises the self-employed, which is a very conservative, hard-working group of people.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:55, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

::Fair enough, but the praise you speak of is "If you ever get annoyed [with, based on earlier lyrics, either your traditional job or the unpleasant commute involved], look at me, I'm self-employed; I love to work at nothing all day." That could be taken as either "I made so much money as an entepreneur that I no longer need to work" or "My official job title is 'Bum'." Neither one of them really expresses admiration for "hard work" in its own right, though the former is certainly a more positive role model than the latter. I do ''like'' the song, but I'm not entirely sanguine about considering it "conservative." [[User:Ptorquemada|Ptorquemada]] 17:36, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

== Adonai My Lord ==

I'm going to delete this song from the list, as it is from the atheistic industrial metal genre. The lyrics reflect a sort of militant Christianity that does not reflect well on the religion as a whole. For example, this group has a song called "Christf---"...obviously they are not conservative. [[User:DennyW66|DennyW66]] 01:14, 23 March 2011 (EDT)

==No U2?==

Surely -- despite the band's liberal leanings -- one of U2's unashamedly Christian songs should make it in. Gloria seems the obvious choice. The chorus, you may remember, goes: "Gloria, in te domine/ Gloria, exultate/ Gloria, Gloria/ Oh Lord, loosen my lips." --[[User:Jdixon|Jdixon]] 12:34, 28 March 2011 (EDT)
:Agreed. Gloria is definitely a good choice. Perhaps "40"; its lyrics are directly lifted from Psalm 40. [[User:DennyW66|DennyW66]] 12:43, 28 March 2011 (EDT)
::You're kidding right? [http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/us-election/u2-honoured-to-be-involved-with-obama-celebrations-14145757.html Conservative indeed..] [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 22:06, 28 March 2011 (EDT)
:::Bono has had a relationship with every President since Clinton; for instance, he worked with Bush on issues relating to Africa and AIDS awareness. The band is very Christian and in no way ashamed of their Christianity. And, rare for rock stars, three of the four members of the band are married family men. They are known for their charitableness and philanthropy, which are of course [[conservative]] traits. Without a doubt, U2 is a conservative, Christian band and they should have representation on this list. [[User:DennyW66|DennyW66]] 22:21, 28 March 2011 (EDT)

::::''Gloria'''s a good choice, please add it if you agree. But U2 became increasingly liberal the more media attention it obtained.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:07, 29 March 2011 (EDT)

:::::Maybe it's possible to be Christian and pro-family, and yet left-leaning politically. Anyway, I vote for "Beautiful Day" ... The heart is a bloom / Shoots up through the stony ground / But there's no room / No space to rent in this town

:::::Reminds me of how inhospitable this fallen world can be to the spirits of believers trying to lead a godly life in the midst of a secular world which often seems to be ruled by the devil (John 12:31). Yet God's love is there, like sunshine! --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:53, 29 March 2011 (EDT)

== Brothers in Arms - Dure Straits ==

I would like to suggest Brothers in Arms by Dire Straits. It's about war and having ones "brother's in arms" in support. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 17:32, 4 April 2011 (EDT)
:If there is no argument to it's inclusion I'll add it soon. Let me know your thoughts though...[[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 17:42, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

== YMCA? ==

I'd always heard that the Village People's YMCA was about [[homosexual]] men seducing other men? That doesn't sound very [[conservative]] to me. Is this just a rumor? --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 12:45, 12 May 2011 (EDT)
:This was obviously added as a joke, and no one else seems to have realized it! [[User:TriciaS|TriciaS]] 12:25, 18 June 2011 (EDT)

::Nope - the song is a legitimate tribute to the Young Men's Christian Association.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:19, 18 June 2011 (EDT)
:::Right. And Antony came to bury Caesar, not to praise him. "It's fun to stay at the Y-M-C-A. / They have everything that you need to enjoy, / You can hang out with all the boys..." [[User:TriciaS|TriciaS]] 13:32, 18 June 2011 (EDT)
::::It was probably written about more savory activities at the Y but later became identified as a gay anthem. I don't think it's a "conservative song" if it's overwhelmingly associated with homosexuality. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:43, 18 June 2011 (EDT)

:::::The song is a good faith tribute and attempts to redefine it are not factual.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:10, 18 June 2011 (EDT)

:::::: Does anyone have any solid sources one way or the other as to what this song means? I tried some brief googling, but didn't turn up anything at all trustworthy. --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 22:35, 28 June 2011 (EDT)

::::::: The band leader said it was a legitimate tribute to the Young Men's Christian Association, and we respect original meaning at ''Conservapedia''.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:40, 28 June 2011 (EDT)

::::::::Awesome. Do you have a source for that I can add?--[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 21:28, 29 June 2011 (EDT)

== Really? Have You Looked Into These Songs? ==

I'd just like to say that I think it's really jacked that you're going around and trying to SAY what these songs mean. For example, Metallica is NOT a conservative band. James Hetfield was a heavy drinker until he went to rehab, Kirk Hammett suffered from drug addiction during his teen years, and if you listen to any other song you hear that they are NOT a conservative band.

Furthermore, Journey is NOT a conservative band. Steve Perry openly voted for Obama in 2008. --[[User:Beanna|Beanna]] 20:04, 24 May 2011 (EDT)

: This isn't a list of conservative bands. It's a list of conservative ''songs''. Even liberals are capable of occasionally singing a conservative song.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:19, 24 May 2011 (EDT)

== An idea... ==

I was looking at this list and realised that most of the songs listed here are big hit numbers. I was thinking that it might be interesting to look at whether the more conservative a song is the better it does on the charts. Even though the artist might be liberal it seems there bigger hits are in fact conservative songs! Maybe by charting something like this we could prove that people respond better to the conservative message and perhaps change the minds of some liberal singers. Just an idea. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 20:31, 27 May 2011 (EDT)
:We could add the respective chart ranking to this page and then collate the results by rank and date. Perhaps, like the conservative words, we might even see the same pattern repeated here! [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 20:48, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

::Great idea!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 27 May 2011 (EDT)
:::It'll be a big project though so it'll be awhile for me to collate the results but I fear that we'll find that the majority of new hits are liberal in nature (particulalry coming from M&M and Usher etc) but I think that is because of the "hollywood" influence. Interestingly artists distanced from "fame" have better messages and ''still'' produce amazing hits. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 23:11, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

== From a youngin' ==

Citizen/Soldier by 3 Doors Down. I don't know about the band themselves, but any song that supports the National Guard should be listed here, in my honest option. If no one minds, I'll add it.

== Wish you were here ==

This is a good list of songs, but as far as I know, ''Wish you were here'' (the title track, along with the entire eponymous album) was not dedicated to a conservative president, but rather to ex-Pink Floyd member Syd Barrett. --[[User:LeonardO|Leo-from-UK]] 19:19, 16 June 2011 (EDT)

: I agree that this needs a citation, given that it is so contrary to the conventional story. I've looked for one, but every indication points to it being inspired by Syd Barrett, not a conservative leader (indeed; one would think, Pink Floyd being made up of Englishmen, that it would be a conservative PM, not President.). --[[User:Monty]]

== Two song suggestions ==

Hallowed Be Thy Name - Iron Maiden

1) Like Welcome to the Family, it's about death row, but not anti-death penalty.

2) Multiple references to an afterlife. "Tears they flow but why am I crying?/After all I am not afraid of dying/Don't I believe that there never is an end?" and later in the song: Mark my words believe my soul lives on/Don't worry now that I have gone/I've gone beyond to seek the truth".

3) The very title of the song is derived from the Lord's Prayer, which is also implied to be the protagonist (in the song)'s final words.

Declaration Day - Iced Earth

The whole thing is about the American war for independence, so it's probably a good choice for the list.

I'll add them for the time being, but if most of you think they don't go, I'll take them down.

: Thanks for suggesting them, but I don't see much that is conservative in your first suggestion other than acceptance of an afterlife (or judgment). That's an important message, but some of the religious references seem to be simply an attempt to give the song gravitas. Perhaps others have some insights about this.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:54, 15 July 2011 (EDT)

::Perhaps it's time to branch out and create a category or essay on "Songs of interest to conservatives" or [[Songs that Conservatives like]].

::I like a lot of songs, even if I would be hard pressed to say why they are "conservative songs". Not every song or book or movie I like is [[Conservative]], and I think it's important to be broad-minded enough not to condemn everything that isn't 100% in line with my beliefs and values.

::In fact, I go even further and say that one of the main differences between liberals and conservatives is that liberals are supremely narrow-minded. All the talk about "tolerance" is a one way street with them. They want us to tolerate their radical notions, but they are ready at the drop of a hat to kick us out of their cushy little world any time we offer a different idea.

::You would never hear of a Bible-belt Christian walking up to a famous liberal author and kicking his wine glass over at a picnic, saying, "We don't allow liberals here." (see [[Glen Beck in NYC]]). --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 23:35, 15 July 2011 (EDT)

== I don't think Lola qualifies ==

IIRC, it ends with a complete lack of repentance -- "I'm glad I'm a man, and so is Lola". I don't think that this song qualifies as conservative if it celebrates that which we abhor.

:Our sister project, Wikipedia, says the song "details a romantic encounter between a young man and a transvestite" (hardly a conservative theme). --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 12:09, 25 July 2011 (EDT)

== Overhaul the "Greatest Conservative Songs" ==

I think this is something that needs to happen before this Essay begins to get out of control. GCSs Essay needs to reorganized into some sort of categorical order—be it alphabetical or otherwise—in order to clean up the Essay and to provide clarity to avoid double posting. I will be happy to categorize it alphabetically by either the artist or song. -- [[User:Austenbosten|Austenbosten]] 13:00, 26 July 2011 (EDT)
:I've just rewritten most of the page. Everything is nearly exactly the same, except for a small amount of rephrasing to keep things grammatically correct. I've added peak chart position for every song, but in the interest of making that data comparable, I've limited it to US chart positions. There are some songs (like Brothers In Arms) which charted well in other countries, but didn't chart at all in the US. I eliminated two duplicate entries - Ballad of the Green Berets, and God's Gonna Cut You Down. Enjoy. [[user:CGoodwin|CGoodwin]]
::Good work CGoodwin. Maybe we can have the same revision for [[Essay:Greatest Conservative Movies]]. [[User:KBarnett|KBarnett]] 15:47, 29 July 2011 (EDT)

:::CGoodwin, your tabular format and ranking information is interesting. Well done. But surely ''Amazing Grace'' has been more popular than just about every other song on the list. How should the table reflect that?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:05, 29 July 2011 (EDT)
::::Billboard popularity only measures against how everything else is selling at the same time. If an song sold 100 copies a week for 20 years, it would never crack the charts. The other thing is that there are over 3000 recorded versions of the song. The highest charting individual version I've found is Elvis's, which reached #79. If you want to reflect a broader historical sense of popularity, I'd suggest doing a personal ranking. [[user:CGoodwin|CGoodwin]]

:::::Great Job CGoodwin! Very clean and will definatly help those looking to post songs to check to see if they are or are not already posted. -- [[User:Austenbosten|Austenbosten]] 16:32, 30 July 2011 (EDT)

== Particle man? Really? ==

I think someone must be sabotaging this page. I fail to see how "Particle man" qualifies as an allegory, rather than fun wordplay around a tune not entirely unlike the Spiderman theme song.

:I have to agree on this one, I looked up what people think is the meaning, and seems its more likely an atheist song then a conservative one. [[User:KenN|KenN]]

== No Johnny Cash? ==

Have there really been no suggestions for Johnny Cash songs here? So many of his works discuss the importance of faith, of accepting Jesus, or praise the values of small town country life over the extravagant lifestyles many liberals seem to push for.--[[User:MorrisF|MorrisF]] 12:54, 18 August 2011 (EDT)
::I put in a traditional song and gave the Johnny Cash version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IStlBOX9F4o [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:24, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
:::I think Man in Black should make the list as well.--[[User:JamesWilson|JamesWilson]] 20:43, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
::::You could make a good argument for a good percentage of his work. I added Country Trash, mostly because it's a fun favorite of mine, and I'm sure a bunch more of his would fit too.--[[User:MorrisF|MorrisF]] 00:40, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

==YMCA==
"YMCA", "In the Navy", "San Francisco", and "Macho Man" are NOT conservative songs. They're celebrations of the gay lifestyle. They never did any conservative songs. Have you actually listened to the words
:This point has already been discussed above. Also, please sign your posts. [[User:Jcw|Jcw]] 21:12, 19 August 2011 (EDT)
::Sorry, this is my first post here. Seem to have omitted a heading as well. [[User:Nealstar|Nealstar]] 19:22, 19 August 2011 (MST)

== Tenacious D ==

I would like to put Tribute by Tenacious D forward. I know it's a comedy single, but it's also a very popular song about overcoming Satan and alludes to many other Christian themes such as heaven and hell.[[User:GMilhouse|GMilhouse]] 14:00, 28 August 2011 (BST)

== Deep sixed YMCA by Village People, keep it buried ==

These are not conservative lyrics in the song YMCA: "You can get yourself clean, you can have a good meal, '''You can do whatever you feel'''" [http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/y-m-c-a-lyrics-village-people/33e3d31bddce747748256df20009b2a5] This is not a conservative video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k

I think a lot of the songs listed should be scrapped. This was the most egregious case. For example, how conservative are songs written by long haired guy rockers or homosexual rockers? Shouldn't the authors of the songs have any bearing? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:19, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
:I withhold judgment on how conservative the song is. As Andy said, further up this page '''"This isn't a list of conservative bands. It's a list of conservative songs. Even liberals are capable of occasionally singing a conservative song."''' [[user:CGoodwin|CGoodwin]]
::Andy did not realize the song had the verse: '''"You can do whatever you feel"''' [http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/y-m-c-a-lyrics-village-people/33e3d31bddce747748256df20009b2a5] Definitely not conservative. And please tell me why you think this video is conservative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k Again, not conservative. Staying buried - no resurrection here folks, move on. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 22:16, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
:::So, a young man getting in touch with his emotions, crying because he's down in the world, and being hugged by another sympathetic boy is wrong? Duly noted. [[User:JonG|~ ]][[User_talk:JonG|JonG]][[Special:Contributions/JonG| ~]] 22:17, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
::::Why don't we wait until Andy has commented as he wanted to keep it in and we should defer to him. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 22:21, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
:::::Does this mean we should go back and analyze ever music video too? In "Alive" by POD, the person is violating the law by not wearing a seatbealt.
:::::And for a song suggestion, "[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsWr6mHRqgI Hands Held High]" by Linkin Park. [[User:JonG|~ ]][[User_talk:JonG|JonG]][[Special:Contributions/JonG| ~]] 22:44, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
::::::Victor Willis, the ''heterosexual'' ex-lead singer of the Village People and writer of "Y.M.C.A." actually did intend the song to be a legitimate tribute to the Young Men's Christian Association, according to an interview from [http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Entertainment/20070802/village_people_070802/ this article]. He "never intended the homosexual innuendo that many fans read into the song," and really the only thing gay about the video posted by User:Conservative is the fact that some of the people in it actually are gay. Did you know that Victor Willis left the band because he was frustrated with the flamboyancy of some of his gay band-mates and with the band's gay image? --[[User:Toadaron|AaronT]] 19:01, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

:::::::Your comment is misleading and (perhaps deliberately) ignores the writer's well-known liking for double entendre; the reference in the group's name ("Village People") the gay lifestyle of [[Greenwich Village]], and that (as even Wikipedia concedes) the group was "Originally created to target disco's gay audience". [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_People]

:::::::I think you need to find another project to join. You're not helping us provide trustworthy information. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:07, 10 September 2011 (EDT)

== ''This Land Is Your Land'' (Woody Guthrie) ==

The removal makes sense. The song seems to be an ode against private property.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:19, 10 September 2011 (EDT)

:It's hard to say. Guthrie took the side of the laboring man against the (perceived) indifference of the wealthy, at a time when unions had only recently appeared on the scene to provide [[collective bargaining]] power and relieve the masses from exploitation on the heels of the Industrial Revolution. But the line, "This land was made for you and me" could refer either to the [[abolition of private property]] (as advocated by [[Karl Marx]] and the [[Communists]]), or to God's bountiful blessing upon the settlers of the [[New World]].

:Like all great art, this song contains some ambiguity and requires the listener's interpretation. Like "Consider Yourself" (from [[Oliver!]]), there's a mixture of idealistic brotherhood with hint of the sort of knavery we associate with [[Robin Hood]]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 13:58, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
::There is an alternate version that's something like "''This land is my land, '''it isn't your land''''' involving guns and shooting trespassers.--[[User:CamilleT|CamilleT]] 14:59, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

:::"An" alternate version? There are dozens of extra verses beyond the 3 we use at Bible camp. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 22:39, 20 September 2011 (EDT)
::::I had a friend that used to sing it. I thought it relevant to the discussion. But you're right, a catchy tune is a catchy tune--[[User:CamilleT|CamilleT]] 02:43, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

== "Jerusalem" ==

: I don't think that Jerusalem is a conservative song. We were taught at school that it was a call to arms against industrialization and hence is it is also anti-capitalist, also I don't think that any song Billy Bragg has recorded can be called conservative.--14:20, 20 September 2011 (EDT)[[User:Jloveday|Jloveday]]

== You have got to be kidding me ==

Seven Nation Army is not about conservatives and if you knew anything about The White Stripes you would know that they are NOT conservative in the least (I believe Jack White had his wedding conducted by a shaman). Also, in the description of Sympathy for the Devil, I've yet to meet a perfect person, so I would remove that part of the description. Finally, Wouldn't It Be Nice isn't about marriage, it's just about idyllic teenage love, marriage is just incidental. [[User:GiveMeLiberty|GiveMeLiberty]] 09:21, 3 October 2011 (EDT)

:Thanks for noticing the error. It may have been added by a liberal hoaxer. You removed other items such as Fox News contributions to Hussein Obama. I am curious as to why you wouldn't remove it? You've got to be kidding me skit is a little dramatic.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 11:15, 3 October 2011 (EDT)
::I removed the items form FNC b/c I felt they were unimportant to the network in the grand scheme of things and didn't belong in the lead. And yeah, You have got to be kidding me is probably a bit dramatic. As for not editing, I though I couldn't edit, as it was unavailable to me when I posted here. [[User:GiveMeLiberty|GiveMeLiberty]] 18:25, 3 October 2011 (EDT)

== The River? ==

Bruce Springsteen's The River doesn't belong here, in my opinion. Springsteen is liberal and pro-union, and the only reference to unions in the song I could find is where the singer got a union card and a wedding coat. Naturally, pre-marital relations are a big part of the song, but the singer never explicitly (or really implicitly) regrets them.--[[User:JamesWilson|James Wilson]] 09:00, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

: Great points. Feel free to delete that song.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:18, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

== wish you were here ==
can someone explain how this song belongs here? I mean, yeah, its a great song, but it seems pretty...well it certainly doesn't even get close to implying that it is about wanting a conservative president....the lryics seem to be written about a romantic interest. I would advise removing it from the list
--[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 17:04, 25 October 2011 (EDT)
:Yeah, that was added by a liberal troll. Thanks--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 17:14, 25 October 2011 (EDT)
:I believe the song was about their original band member Syd.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 17:17, 25 October 2011 (EDT)

== Thank you for giving me another chance ==

I was briefly banned here for tampering. I really did not tamper
with anyone's entries.
I have not been here 24 hours yet.
However, I am going to be afraid to post now because I was so quickly banned.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for this site. I am so sick of Wikipedia and it's liberal bias.
I often come here when I look up something there and realize I am just reading spin.

I do have a couple of concerns with this song list.
I realize we have more important things to be concerned with right now.
Truth is, a famous musician asked me not to post his song on the list because
of the liberal activists on the list.

I do not want to step on anyone's toes.
I like Pearl Jam and Tracy Chapman too; I bought their albums.
Both are liberal activists and both have raised money for Obama.
Can a song truly be Conservative if the artists are liberal activists?

Pearl Jam even wrote a bad song for Obama. [http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2008/02/06/pearl_jam_tape_song_for_barack_obama Obama Song]
They have even performed at rallies to raise money for him. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD2xQmB0GQA Obama Rally]

Tracy Chapman has also raised money for liberal causes, but not specifically for Barack Obama.
Her song, "Fast Car" is about a woman who lives in the ghetto, falls in love with an alcoholic, dreams of changing him and realizes she cannot. She leaves him.
I am not convinced that is a Conservative song.
I am not concerned with the liberal artists on the list...just the liberal activists.
They raise money to fight against the Conservative cause.

Liberal musicians have saturated the market for decades. Many songs are written to indoctrinate our youth. Conservative artists are not easily accepted
by the mainstream industry. There is liberal peer pressure. And if a song is pro-Conservative, forget it.

Just my opinion.
Please contact me with any concerns. I love this site and want to be part of it.
I am working on more serious entries, but I have to get the feel of the way the site works.
I would appreciate a warning before you block me. I will eagerly correct anything in order to stay here.
I was so hurt when I was blocked.

Thanks for reading.
SusanF

== re: Organizing the list ==

I would be happy to volunteer to alphabetize the list.
I think putting the songs in categories would be difficult because some songs
can belong in more than one category.

I don't want to do anything like that without permission from administrators.
I would be happy to do it though. It's confusing the way it is.

:You're welcome to organize it as you think best ... as long as its conciseness, most-important-songs-first presentation is not diluted. The Wikipedia-style of up-front tables of contents and sometimes obscure-information-first is disfavored here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:22, 27 November 2011 (EST)

I was just going to put all of it in alphabetical order. I am not familiar with Wiki-style as I never spend much time on there.
I get annoyed at the liberal bias.
I better bow out of this project because what is "most important" to some will not be for others.
I thought having the songs in alphabetical order would make them easy to locate.

:Improvements are welcome, but I doubt alphabetizing the list, so that obscure titles end up near the top, would improve it. When visitors look at the page, they'd probably like to see some popular songs first.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:35, 27 November 2011 (EST)

:I decided I would take on the task of organizing the list. I will categorize the songs, separate them and put them in alphabetical order per category.
Does that sound alright with everyone?
I will not remove any songs.
If there is something you do not like, tell me. Please just don't block me without telling me to change something back.
This is going to take some time. "Most important songs" is a matter of opinion so I have to try to figure out what is "most important" to Conservapedia.
Thank you [[User:SusanF|Susan F.]] 23:55, 27 November 2011 (EST)

:Categorizing sounds like a good idea. Let me know if you need help. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 00:05, 28 November 2011 (EST)

:Thank you. I am sure I will take you up on that offer of help.
[[User:SusanF|Susan F.]] 00:24, 28 November 2011 (EST)

== Karajou let me know... ==

That I need to supply an article when I post a song and an artist.
I did not know that.
I am working on that right now.

It's odd that I cannot reply to messages I get.
I wanted to contact Karajou myself, but I could not find a way to do that.
I consider myself computer savvy, but this site is a little confusing.

Thanks.

== Please be patient ==

I've spent a lot of time categorizing the songs, careful not to step on anyone's toes.
I am not finished yet. I am working the on the "Spiritual" section and more.

==This page is full of parodies !==
I remove the following, feel free to contest my decisions
*Don't Tread On Me (Metallica) - Absolutely nothing to do with Conservative (or maybe: ''To secure peace is to prepare for war'' ??)
*Hypnotize (System of a Down ) - You must be kidding here, SOAD is one of the most left-winged band in the US. And Hypnotize say nothing about liberals !
*Walking Contradiction / Warning / Boulevard of Broken Dreams (Green Day) - Mostly anti-Bush (good job, vandals !)
*When We Stand Together (Nickelback) - How is it Conservative ?
*A Better Tomorrow (Wu-Tang Clan) - Fail to see any conservative value here.
*The Beautiful People (Marylin Manson) - OMG, is Marylin Manson a conservative symbol now ? (''Hate every motherf*****'' + anti-capitalist)
*Me Against The World (Simple Plan) - If you accept this explanation, you might accept any song
*Pray (Justin Bieber) - A song about supporting your country, really ?

And I believe there is a lot more !
--[[User:PhilipN|PhilipN]] 00:01, 5 January 2012 (EST)

::Speaking of "Pray", do you think MC Hammer's song of the same name could be included? It's a little self-indulgent, but it's mostly about hard work and giving thanks. I'll stick it in, but feel free to remove it if you disagree [[User:WilcoxD|WilcoxD]] 00:08, 5 January 2012 (EST)

:::Of course, this one looks to be about praying and working hard. --[[User:PhilipN|PhilipN]] 00:11, 5 January 2012 (EST)

::::Not Justin Bieber, lolol. I've removed a handful prior. Good work.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 00:13, 5 January 2012 (EST)

::::But in the very first example above, the phrase "to secure peace is to prepare for war" is [[conservative]] -- it wouldn't surprise me if Reagan said something similar.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:17, 5 January 2012 (EST)

:::::I am not sure but it does not seem really conservative to me, I let you judge: [http://www.lyricsfreak.com/m/metallica/dont+tread+on+me_20092086.html] --[[User:PhilipN|PhilipN]] 00:20, 5 January 2012 (EST)

::::::As to your second example, the politics of the band itself is often irrelevant, as I've had to say repeatedly here. Liberals are capable of saying conservative things, and there are circumstances when a liberal may be in the best position to criticize something about other liberals.

::::::Sometime you might listen carefully to the lyrics of Elton John's ''Goodbye Yellow Brick Road''.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:26, 5 January 2012 (EST)

:::::::I think the same is often true for conservatives as well. It is why Reagan was in such a good position to raise taxes for instance. [[User:SammyP|SammyP]] 00:43, 5 January 2012 (EST)

::::::::Hardly. Reagan cut tax rates more than anyone else in his position.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:46, 5 January 2012 (EST)

:::::::::[http://money.cnn.com/2010/09/08/news/economy/reagan_years_taxes/index.htm This article] has a good description of taxes under Reagan. In short, when Reagan entered office he enacted a large tax cut, but the deficit grew too large and he had to enact the largest ever peace time tax increase. It would have been easy for a liberal to cut taxes like Reagan did, but as you pointed out above, someone of the opposite party might have had difficulty in enacted the tax increases he pushed through. [[User:SammyP|SammyP]] 00:59, 5 January 2012 (EST)

::::::::::The article obscures rather than illuminates. Reagan's tax-cutting record is far better than any other modern president, despite inheriting an awful economic climate.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 01:14, 5 January 2012 (EST)

:::::::::::I'm sorry, I'm unsure how this assertion squares with the facts. Could you explain what you mean given the changes in tax policy that occurred during the Reagan presidency? [[User:SammyP|SammyP]] 01:23, 5 January 2012 (EST)

== Nice to have Krista Branch here! ==

She is a great singer!

== Takin care of business? ==

The song, although catchy, is about avoiding work. "It's the work that we avoid, cuz were all self employed; wew love to work at nothing all day." This must be removed [[User:Sy20|Sy20]] 21:58, 10 March 2012 (EST)

== why don't you get a job ==
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhalnCwP82s The Offspring's song about freeloading girlfriends and boyfriends might make a good addition, since it shows the value of hardwork. I'd ad it myself, but am bad at formatting stuff. Could someone who is more familiar with wiki formatting add it? thanks [[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 18:29, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

Essay:Greatest Conservative Songs

2012-03-30T19:46:26Z

AlexanderSz: removed "free Bird." Great song, but not overly conservative unless you try way to hard to read into it

There are many brilliant—and popular—conservative songs. Here is our growing list (click the box next to "Billboard Rank" to list the most popular first):

{| class="wikitable sortable"
|-
!Songs "Classic"
!Artist
!Comments
!Billboard Rank
!Category
|-
|''Living In America''
|[[James Brown]]
|Song that espouses the virtues of, and pride in, living in the United States. Appears in the movie "Rocky IV" and on the film's soundtrack.
|NA
|Classic/R&B/Funk
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sEqzEgDZ0g "Ain't I Right"]
|[[Marty Robbins]]
|Song against communism and socialism.
|NA
|Classic/Folk
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT88jBAoVIM ''Amazing Grace'']
|[[John Newton]]
|A Christian hymn published in 1779.
|NA
|Classic/Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3S7mlRYL-8 America]
|Neil Diamond
|Freedom, Liberty, Patriotism
|8
|Classic/Pop
|-
|''America USA''
|Joey Sudyka
|Not very well known, perhaps, but a good patriotic song.
|NA
|Classic/Pop
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErPywgiMb4k ''Angry Young Man'']
|[[Billy Joel]]
|The doctrinaire leftist radical with "his fist in the air and his head in the sand" comes in for biting criticism.
|NA
|Classic/Pop
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4eonyfRet8&feature=related ''Back in the U.S.A.'']
|[[Chuck Berry]]
|A patriotic song about missing life in the U.S.A.
|Sixteen
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y5GDvN9_OE ''Ballad of the Green Berets'']
|Sergeant Barry Sadler
|Pro-American and pro-military.
|1
|Classic/Traditional
|-
|[http://youtu.be/r5Q8Xa0bPy8''Battle Hymn of the Republic'']
|[[Lee Greenwood]]
|"As He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free."
|NA
|Classic/Traditional
|-
|''Bus Stop''
|The Hollies
|Pro-[[chivalry]], pro-romance and pro-marriage: "Someday my name and hers are going to be the same."
|5
|Classic
|-
|[http://youtu.be/cMfrLFirGWc ''Chapel of Love'']
|Dixie Cups
|Marriage in a church
|1
|Classic/Pop
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIF4U_QFSxQ ''Chores'']
|Animal Collective
|"Now I've got these chores / and I'm not gonna hurt no-one" -- Hard work is praised and violence is discouraged. A scary song for [[liberals]]!
|NA
|Classic/Traditional
|-
|''Country Trash''
|Johnny Cash
|In a comedic way, the song praises the small town conservative virtues of the people looked down upon by big city liberals as "Country trash"
|NA
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Crying-in-the-Chapel-lyrics-Elvis-Presley/E547D833F0BBFADF48256874002B3358 ''Crying In The Chapel'']
|[[Elvis Presley]]
|Pro-marriage
|1
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruNrdmjcNTc&ob=av2n''Courtesy of the Red, White & Blue (The Angry American)'']
|[[Toby Keith]]
|A patriotic response to the Sept. 11 attacks
|1 (Hot Country Songs)
|Classic/Country
|-
|''D-I-V-O-R-C-E''
|[[Tammy Wynette]]
|This sad song was a huge hit in 1968.
|1
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38oeBgvbMYA ''Don't Let 'Em Take Your Gun'']
|Grand Funk Railroad
|A father gives his son some sage advice.
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/v9BtLRWbkmA ''Don't Stop (Thinking About Tomorrow)'']
|Fleetwood Mac
|Used by Bill Clinton as his campaign theme song in 1992, but liberals often try to appeal to conservative themes for elections.
|3
|Classic/Rock
|-
|''Do You Hear the People Sing''
|Claude-Michel Schönberg
|Standing up to government in the name of freedom, from the musical ''Les Miserables''
|NA
|Classic
|-
|[http://youtu.be/5Jxnt-QY-j4 ''Game of Love'']
|Wayne Fontana and the Mindbenders
|"The purpose of a man is to love a woman, and the purpose of a woman is to love a man... It started long ago in the Garden of Eden when Adam said to Eve 'Baby, you're for me.'"
|1
|Classic/Pop
|-
|''Get a Job''
|The Silhouettes
|Self-explanatory; a rebuke to lazy [[liberals]] who want to sit around and wait for government handouts.
|1
|Classic
|-
|[http://youtu.be/4ZEE8utquP8 ''Get it Right the First Time'']
|Louisiana's LeRoux
|Wealthy Georgia politician is placed in high office and turns out to be a puppet with no ideas of his own. Released in 1980 when Jimmy Carter was up for re-election.
|NA
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzU2iJ9qfXg ''Gimme Back My Bullets'']
|[[Lynyrd Skynyrd]]
|The name says it all.
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z5hD38Bs8Y''God Bless America'']
|Irving Berlin
|American patriotic, classic song.
|NA
|Classic/Traditional
|-
|''God and Guns''
|[[Lynyrd Skynyrd]]
|A powerful new song that elaborates on the song title.
|NA
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.scoutsongs.com/lyrics/proudtobeamerican.html ''God Bless the USA'']
|Lee Greenwood
|
|7 (Hot Country)
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SP5EfwBWgg0&feature=related ''Go Down Moses'']
|[[Louis Armstrong]]
|
|NA
|Classic/Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IStlBOX9F4o ''God's Gonna Cut You Down'']
|
|"Go tell that long tongue liar, go and tell that midnight rider, tell the rambler, the gambler, the back biter, tell 'em that God's gonna cut 'em down"
|NA
|Classic/Traditional
|-
|[http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/jones-george/gods-gonna-get-cha-for-that-6638.html ''God's Gonna Get 'Cha For That'']
|Tammy Wynette & George Jones
|You cannot escape God's gaze, no matter who you are
|Twenty-five
|Classic
|-
|[http://youtu.be/EgkBx8csEws ''Goodbye, Yellow Brick Road'']
|[[Elton John]]
|The same message as the [[Prodigal Son]]: look objectively at our own lives, and realize that "I should have listened to my old man."
|2
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/serve.html ''Gotta Serve Somebody'']
|[[Bob Dylan]]
|"It may be the devil or it may be the Lord."
|Twenty-four
|Classic/Folk
|-
|[http://www.ixlyrics.com/CLIVE-DUNN/GRANDAD.html ''Grandad'']
|Clive Dunn
|UK Number 1 hit, in praise of senior citizens and their values
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZVPv9B-ZlM ''Government Cheese'']
|The Rainmakers
|Humorous spoof of welfare.
|NA
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6yLQRF-cEU&ob=av2nHave You Forgotten?]
|Darryl Worley
|Patriotic response to [[September 11, 2001 attacks]]<ref>http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=15568</ref>
|1 (US Country)
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1KtScrqtbc "He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother"]
|Hollies
|Repeats the slogan of the Boys Town, a Christian charity for youngsters founded by Father Edward J. Flanagan in Omaha<ref>http://www.boystown.org/about/father-edward-|j-|flanagan</ref>
|NA
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0heL2Czeraw ''I Am America'']
|Krista Branch
|American [[Tea Party Movement]] Song
|NA
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16u0wwCfoJ4 ''I Fought the Law (and the Law Won)'']
|The Crickets
|Its title says it all. The version by ''The Clash'' has a particularly good tempo.
|9 (Bobby Fuller Four version)
|Classic
|-
|[http://youtu.be/OtZ5YsvREi4 ''In America'']
|The [[Charlie Daniels]] Band
|Patriotism makes a comeback in response to the Iran hostage crisis and Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.
|Eleven
|Classic/Country
|-
|''I Saw The Light''
|Hank Williams
|Redemption of sin through faith.
|NA
|Classic/Country
|-
|''It's America''
|Rodney Atkins
|Celebrates the American spirit and all the good things about the United States.
|1 (US Country)
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.justsomelyrics.com/767663/McCarthy-Keep-an-Open-Mind-or-Else-Lyrics ''Keep an Open Mind or Else'']
|McCarthy
|About the conservative value of keeping an [[Essay:Quantifying Openmindedness|open mind]].
|NA
|Classic/Pop
|-
|''Last Kiss''
|Wayne Cochran and the C.C. Riders
|"Oh where oh where can my baby be; The Lord took her away from me; She's gone to heaven so I got to be good; So I can see my baby when."
|2 (J. Frank Wilson version)
|Classic
|-
|[http://youtu.be/BvPugOWeZiA ''Let It Be'']
|[[The Beatles]]
|Very popular in Russia under the Soviets
|1
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-1_d6bbM1I ''My Love'']
|[[Petula Clark]]
|A Christian love in secular form.
|1
|Classic
|-
|[http://youtu.be/kD5M_i6JceU ''Neighborhood Bully'']
|[[Bob Dylan]]
|Israel's right to exist and defend itself.
|NA
|Classic/Folk
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kZ0pA9REyU ''No Opportunity Necessary, No Experience Needed'']
|Richie Havens (Covered by Yes)
|"...I know your cross is heavier With every step Every step But I know a man who'd walk miles for you..."
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LdZTKvNXxPA "Nothing Like You"]
|[[Miles Davis]] and Bob Dorough
|Celebrates the sight of ones beloved - Isaiah 43:4
|NA
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iYY2FQHFwE ''Okie From Muskogee'']
|[[Merle Haggard]]
|Anti-drug and anti-hippie; a song about praising the traditional American values in Mid-America. Was written in response to the Vietnam War protests and counter-culture movement.
|1 (Billboard Hot Country)
|Classic
|-
|''People Get Ready''
|Curtis Mayfield and the Impressions
|An all-time classic song about the glory of the [[Lord]].
|3
|Classic/Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6XZDb045xU ''Red White & Blue (Love It or Leave)'']
|[[Lynyrd Skynyrd]]
|"It was all based around this somewhat Utopian view of the world. The idea was that music would lift man up to a higher plane, and that world leaders, if they were able |to sit down on some big grassy knoll where the sun was shining and hear music..." Tom Johnston of LS
|Twenty-seven
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2lRcxlYx40''Renegade'']
|[[Steppenwolf]]
|[[John Kay]]'s childhood escape from Communist [[East Germany]].
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FOUqQt3Kg0''Respect'']
|Aretha Franklin
|This song is about respecting woman and their choices to be equal members in society.
|1
|Classic/Soul
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBohsCG8emk ''Simple Man'']
|[[Charlie Daniels]]
|A song about how drugs and poor politics are a result of people putting their bibles down. Also a strongly pro death penalty song.
|Twelve
|Classic/Country/Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/RCqxq6xqoXI ''Sin City'']
|The Flying Burrito Brothers
|Attacks modern decadence and predicts divine punishment for sin.
|NA
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPPlGFh6OpQ ''Spirit In The Sky'']
|Norman Greenbaum
|A religious rock song written in 1969.
|3
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwBirf4BWew ''Stand By Your Man'']
|[[Tammy Wynette]]
|Don't expect [[feminists]] to like that one! Or [[Hillary Clinton]]!
|1 (Hot Country Singles)
|Classic/Country
|-
|''Star Spangled Banner''
|Francis Scott Key
|The American national anthem.
|NA
|Classic/Traditional
|-
|''Starting All Over Again''
|[[Petula Clark]]
|Keep moving onward, even in the most difficult of times.
|NA
|Classic/Traditional
|-
|''Stayin' Alive''
|[[The Bee Gees]]
|Pro-people and pro-staying alive, and this: "we can try to understand/the [[New York Times]]' effect on man."
|1
|Classic/Pop
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgrQST6VlnQ "Stay With Me"]
|[[Frank Sinatra]]
|Beautiful song of Christian faith.
|NA
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKdAVYKYZfo''Storm the Embassy'']
|The Stray Cats
|Another conservative song about the Iran hostage crisis. "Fifteen man taken captive in a hostile foreign land/Scorchin' sun beaming down onto miles and miles of sand..."
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCXiuqJ1E6g ''Supper's Ready'']
|[[Genesis (band)|Genesis]]
|''There's an angel standing in the sun, and he's crying with a loud voice, "This is the supper of the mighty one", Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Has returned to lead his |children home, To take them to the new Jerusalem.''
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
|''Sympathy for the Devil''
|The Rolling Stones
|Reminds humanity that evil is present in the world and needs to be fought.
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukUL_I14GPw''Take Me Home, Country Roads'']
|John Denver
|Celebrates Southern country landscape and traditions.
|2
|Classic/Folk
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Maz9ddxEQnM ''Taxman'']
|[[The Beatles]]
|George Harrison said, "Taxman was when I first realized that even though we had started earning money, we were actually giving most of it away in taxes."
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/p6q9nBusrq8 ''That Smell'']
|[[Lynyrd Skynyrd]]
|A very strong anti-drug use song by America's most well-known Southern rock band.
|NA
|Classic/Country/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeWZhuzFMM8 ''The Ascent of Stan'']
|[[Ben Folds]]
|Tells the story of a former "textbook hippie man" who realizes that he has become everything that he was protesting against.
|NA
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=6547 ''The Devil Went Down To Georgia'']
|[[Charlie Daniels]]
|A deeper message here, as Daniels explains.
|3
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHAFmFsb9XM&feature=related ''The Fightin' Side of Me'']
|Merle Haggard
|A song about patriotism and standing up for [[America]].
|1 (Hot Country Singles)
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://youtu.be/fHvf20Y6eoM ''Turn, Turn, Turn'']
|The Byrds
|An almost word-for-word direct quotation from the [[Bible]], specifically [[Ecclesiastes]], with the addition of the refrain "Turn, Turn, Turn".
|1
|Classic/Folk
|-
|[http://youtu.be/C68J1tJM6vU ''Unborn Child'']
|Seals and Crofts
|This pro-life song was a hit single in 1974, but for some reason gets left off the Seals and Crofts greatest hits albums.
|sixty-six
|Classic/Folk
|-
|''Union Sundown''
|Bob Dylan
|The title says it all.
|NA
|Classic/Folk
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvkUXKyl5wY "Waiting List"]
|[[Dr. Octagon]]
|A powerful song about socialized medicine and rationing
|NA
|Hip-hop
|-
|''Way Out Here''
|Josh Thompson
|"Our house is all protected by the good Lord and a Gun", and "We wont take a dime if we aint earned it, when it comes to weight, brother we pull our own". It is pro gun |ownership, the Lord, and hard work. Also preaches the morals and ethics that are known from small towns.
|Fifteen (US Country)
|Classic/Country
|-
|''We Must Take America Back''
|Steve Vaus
|Became an underground country music hit in 1992 after RCA dropped him and took the album out of print due to the political lyrics.
|NA
|Classic/Country
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nElc2vMU-b0 ''When You Love A Woman'']
|Journey
|True love from the heart
|Twelve
|Classic/Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw5RkzbHb-w ''You Can't Hurry Love (You Just Have to Wait)'']
|The Supremes
|Abstinence for rock fans. Also performed by Phil Collins.
|1
|Classic
|-
|[http://youtu.be/lnk8SKD9zcA''You Light Up My Life'']
|Debby Boone
|One of the biggest hits ever, but [[liberals]] omit that this song is about [[Jesus]].
|1
|Classic
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2UE5g72s0o ''Yours Is No Disgrace'']
|[[Yes]]
|Written to, and about, the troops headed for Vietnam.
|NA
|Classic/Rock
|-
!Songs "Rock"
!Artist
!Comments
!Billboard Rank
!Category
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVsZap7WBm8 ''All In'']
|Lifehouse
|Describes a relationship with God as being full of commitment and without reservations.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/bHpw6CzprNY ''Bad Rap (Who You Tryin' To Kid, Kid?)'']
|Steve Taylor
|Takes aim at LA and NY hipsters, the Village Voice, abortion, and "the left-wing band with their head in the sand".
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.robertchristgau.com/get_artist.php?name=sex+pistols''Bodies'']
|The Sex Pistols
|Profane but graphically anti-abortion.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|''Critical Acclaim''
|Avenged Sevenfold
|Pro-America and pro-Military.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVOEoo1oXBs ''Declaration Day'']
|Iced Earth
|A song about the Revolutionary War.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/pearl+jam/dissident_20106414.html ''Dissident'']
|Pearl Jam
|About a woman who engages in [[liberal values]] by being impregnated out of wedlock and having an abortion, but immediately regrets doing so.
|3
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/K5N2WJ1szHE ''Father of Mine'']
|Everclear
|A reminder of the importance of good parenting. Everclear singer Art Alexakis wrote much of his material from his own perspective of a troubled childhood. At the end of |the song, Alexakis promises to be a better father than his own had been.
|4
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/zapGC2PrWiU ''Fair Exchange"]
|[[Kansas (band)|Kansas]]
|Warnings about totalitarian governments who want to take away your freedom in the name of utopia. Also much of their early 80s material, which has Christian lyrics.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYRZt7xcwpY&feature=youtu.be "Freedom is Colorblind"]
|JoeDanMedia
|A song about how the left uses race to polarize the country. It is a conservative song that tries to unite the country.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|''Iraq No Phobia''
|Pro-Pain
|It is a pro-American, pro-military heavy metal song about the first [[Gulf War]]: ''"Mohammed's no match for the great Uncle Sam."''
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b71clnfgyts ''No Son of Mine'']
|Genesis
|
|Twelve
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzEhnBdOTAM "ONE TEA PARTY"]
|[[Toot Sweet]]
|This song is a metaphoric call to energize, motivate and unite the movement that we are all passionate about... the time is now to stand together, united, "AS ONE".
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/wDrRVlm5HOw "Prayer for America"]
|JoeDanMedia
|A short history lesson put to music regarding our schools and how the Bible was taught there in previous years.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|''Welcome to the Family''
|Avenged Sevenfold
|A song about death row, although not anti-death penalty.
|8
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/wq160PIYjHo "No Rules for Radicals"]
|JoeDanMedia
|This song highlights "rules" Saul Alinsky wrote about in his progressive-liberal book, 'Rules for Radicals'.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|''Real American''
|Rick Derringer
|Patriotic anthem, known as [[Hulk Hogan]]'s pre-match song.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/FAvQSkK8Z8U ''Red Barchetta'']
|[[Rush]]
|Tells the story of a future with excessive regulation, where even driving is illegal.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=096LhjGNNCk ''Something For Nothing'']
|Rush
|"You can't get something for nothing, you can't have freedom for free."
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/cnijc9wNpV4 ''Sparks of the Tempest'']
|[[Kansas (band)|Kansas]]
|Warnings about totalitarian governments who want to take away your freedom in the name of utopia. Also much of their early 80s material, which has Christian lyrics.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|''Stranger in Blue Suede Shoes''
|Kevin Ayers
|Defends the right of businessmen to choose their customers: "we don't serve strangers in blue suede shoes".
|NA
|Rock
|-
|''The Big Money''
|Rush
|Pro-[[capitalism]]
|forty-five
|Rock
|-
!Songs "Spiritual"
!Artist
!Comments
!Billboard Rank
!Category
|-
|[http://youtu.be/iq10bz3PxyY ''Christmas Shoes'']
|NewSong
|A Christmas song by a Christian band.
|NA
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoaH0I9UwLI ''Your Love Is Extravagant'']
|Casting Crowns
|
|NA
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnnhYE1DhC4 ''What If His People Prayed'']
|Casting Crowns
|
|NA
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mA_H6C8iLPA ''Liberalism is a Mental Disorder'']
|The Infidel (Gregory Van Leer Jr.) with an opening from [[Michael Savage]]
|Clearly attacks [[liberal values]].
|NA
|Rap
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h1oRP7FfBw ''Sunny Afternoon'']
|The Kinks
|About a rich man trying to enjoy the simple things in life because the Nanny-state has nearly bankrupted him.
|Fourteen
|Rock
|-
|''2+2=5 (The Lukewarm)''
|Radiohead
|A song chastising people for accepting the mainstream medias version of events and not paying attention.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|''No Children''
|The Mountain Goats
|A song about a marriage falling apart because the couple has no children to hold the family together.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuUmLIPSasI ''God Loves My Country'']
|Balthrop, Alabama
|A song that declares that God loves America most of all.
|NA
|Folk
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zZE0SrkyNE&ob=av2n ''Where'd You Go'']
|Fort Minor
|Shows the hardship of divorce, liberal values, and the possible future of the families of our service men who could be forced to serve in Libya.
|NA
|Rap
|-
|''Patriotism''
|Company Flow
|While containing bad language it endorses the US as a super-power.
|NA
|Rap
|-
|''Tribute''
|Tenacious D
|Comedy single, but it's also a very popular song about overcoming Satan and alludes to many other Christian themes such as heaven and hell.
|4
|Rock/folk
|-
|''For Martha''
|The Smashing Pumpkins
|Being torn between the anguish of losing a lost one and the joy of knowing you will one day reunite them with in heaven
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDIGzzeQjaE ''Dethharmonic'']
|Dethklok
|Anti-tax
|NA
|Rock
|-
|''Get Over It''
|The Eagles
|Written by Don Henley (who is a liberal) about his frustration of people blaming others for their own problems and believing the world owes them a favor ''"the big bad |world doesn't owe you a thing,"''
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iR6oYX1D-0w "I Need A Dollar"]
|Aloe Blacc
|"Please Mr.Bossman I need this job more than you can know" - an excellent paean to the plights of unemployment
|NA
|Pop/Soul
|-
|[http://youtu.be/RlOQBGjkm78 "Extra Extra"]
|[[Toots Sweet]]
|Toots does a great job at making the clips entertaining as well as informative.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yq8zn15EPE "Somebody Must Be Prayin' For Me]
|[[Tim McGraw]]
|Song about prayer and how it is a necessary part of everyday life.
|NA
|Spiritual/Country
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNTUADEhC8Q"The List"]
|The Right Brothers
|A song that melodically lists liberal activists.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/8uxAT6dzKSM "We the People"]
|[[Toots Sweet]]
|A song about the Constitution and how the current administration has been abusing the beloved document we are trying to live by.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/AA1aHrfxgEg "Shut up and Teach"]
|The Right Brothers
|Liberal indoctrination runs rampant in our schools. Song expresses the desire to stick to a non-partisan curriculum.
| NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/ROdsgYyheM4 "On Fire"]
|Switchfoot
|This song is about keeping the faith, in people and in our religion.
|NA
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pldyz9VS2yY ''Under God'']
|[[Pat Boone]]
|
|NA
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EBiei21-C8 ''King Without a Crown'']
|Matisyahu
|A Hasidic Jew raps about God as the source of happiness and salvation from the things of this world: "If you're drowning in the waters and you can't stay afloat ask |Hashem for mercy and He'll throw you a rope."
|7 (Hot Modern Rock Tracks)
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl6yilkU1LI ''Fast Car'']
|Tracy Chapman
|Self-help, free market, division of labor, and a criticism of alcohol. "I know things will get better/You'll find work and I'll get promoted/We'll move out of the |shelter/Buy a bigger house and live in the suburbs"
|6
|Folk
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDK9QqIzhwk ''Livin' on a Prayer'']
|Bon Jovi
|Organized labor is harmful to the welfare of workers, who turn to prayer.
|1
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/o-z2D9lo9-8 ''Bush Was Right'']
|The Right Brothers
|Celebrating the Bush Administration's success and policies.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDSK98Y2FNg "Stop Global Whining"]
|The Right Brothers
|Anti-Global Warming hoax song.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqXAW2snGMI ''Capitalism'']
|Oingo Boingo
|There's nothing wrong with free enterprise.
|NA
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dHthaNNnds Keep On Loving You]
|REO Speedwagon
|Love overcomes infidelity "When I said that I love you I meant That I love you forever."
|1
|Pop
|-
|[http://youtu.be/oHg5SJYRHA0 ''Sweet Home Alabama'']
|[[Lynyrd Skynyrd]]
|A response to hippie culture. Defends Southerners from stereotyped attacks by [[liberal]], Canadian rocker Neil Young. "Well, I hope Neil Young will remember/A Southern |man don't need him around anyhow."
|8
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5aMMRes2u4 ''Still the One'']
|Orleans
|A tribute to fidelity in relationships.
|5
|Pop
|-
|[http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858733660/ ''What's The Use Of Wond'rin?'']
|Amanda Palmer
|Celebrates the command: "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." -Ephesians 5:22
|NA
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://youtu.be/Ke-r2K0ymWc ''Lightning Crashes'']
|Live
|The joy and significance of childbirth.
|1
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJprEyXMrIk''Takin' Care of Business'']
|Bachman-Turner Overdrive
|The work ethic and promoting self-employment.
|Twelve
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-s5r2sp''Cat's In The Cradle'']
|Harry Chapin
|The importance of traditional families and responsible fatherhood.
|1
|Folk
|-
|[http://youtu.be/bCFWyLwcR6E ''Thank You My Lord'']
|[[Petula Clark]]
|The title says it all.
|NA
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://youtu.be/7NJMTmz7pkg ''Brick'']
|Ben Folds Five
|Shows the regret involved in abortion.
|6 (Modern Rock Tracks)
|Rock
|-
|[http://youtu.be/Dw6qmYX1ny4 ''Alive'']
|P.O.D.
|About being thankful for the gift of life.
|2 (US Alternative)
|Rock
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_iNdbPvrYk ''Jesus Christ'']
|Brand New
|The singer turns to God for advice and assurance.
|thirty (Hot Modern Rock Tracks
|Spiritual
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lydBPm2KRaU ''Jesus, Take The Wheel'']
|[[Carrie Underwood]]
|A gospel-themed hit from the American Idol winner.
|1 (US Country)
|Country
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPBwXKgDTdE ''Mine'']
|[[Taylor Swift]]
|Talks about how her parents stooped to [[liberal values]] and divorced, and how she doesn't want that to happen with the guy she meets, dates, and marries.
|1 (US Adult Contemporary)
|Pop/Country
|-
!Songs "Rap"
!Artist
!Comments
!Billboard Rank
!Category
|-
|[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v7xNSgBkum7o "Pray"]
|[[MC Hammer]]
|Working hard and giving thanks.
|2
|Rap/Pop
|-

|}
|
Please add your best conservative picks.

== Debatable Whether Conservative ==

The top five in a poll of the greatest songs in the 20th century, according to the Recording Industry Association of America and the [[NEA]]:

*''Over the Rainbow'' (Judy Garland)
*''White Christmas'' (Bing Crosby)
*''Respect'' (Aretha Franklin)
*''American Pie'' (Don McLean)

Also questionable:

*''Rocky Raccoon'' (Beatles) - has multiple references to Gideon's Bible

== References ==

<references/>

== See also ==

*[http://smartgirlpolitics.ning.com/group/support-conservative-entertainment Smart Girl Politics]

*[http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/lmnorton/2011/06/07/bigdawg-spotlight-on-the-in-word-the-antidote-to-liberal-arts-political-correctness Breitbart antidote to political correctness]

*[http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/lmnorton/2011/05/23/bigdawg-spotlight-on-urban-funk-rocker-toots-sweet-a-conservative-sound-in-a-liberal-town/ Urban funk rocker and a conservative sound]

[[Category:Essays]]
[[category:Music]]

Talk:The Hunger Games

2012-03-28T03:13:14Z

AlexanderSz:

== Fascist or Liberal? ==

An excellent compromise, I think. I'm reluctant to call it liberal because I'm British and "liberal" instinctively means something different to me, but "big government" is a perfect description. Thanks for this. --[[User:SamCoulter|SamCoulter]] 22:23, 26 March 2012 (EDT)
:Actually, neither works. This book is a piece of young adult literature, not a soapbox to lament big government/liberalism.23:02, 26 March 2012 (EDT)
::It ''does'' carry a political message and while (being a Brit) I won't accept it as a criticism of true liberalism, it's certainly a valid criticism of big government. --[[User:SamCoulter|SamCoulter]] 23:18, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

In response to the unsigned comment above, it's nearly impossible to write something that does not tend to push the reader in a particular political direction. Everything has a political impact, even if only a slight one. Even the internet has an inherent political impact for example, and it is technology.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:25, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

==Plot==
Has anyone even read this book? It's not bad, I have read it. [[User:JonM|JonM]] 22:35, 26 March 2012 (EDT)

:Having read it, do you think it is critical of [[Big Government]]?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 23:25, 26 March 2012 (EDT)
Having read all three books in the series, while not necessarily inherently critical of Big Government--one of the "protagonist" societies in the third book turns out to have a pretty totalitarian bent, up until the point at which they betray the protagonist--the books do provide an excellent illustration of the tendencies of power to corrupt.--[[User:Guitarsniper|Guitarsniper]] 00:36, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Yes, but that is not the main part of the book. However, by associating big government to the atrocities the Capitol commits, then, yes, the book is critical of big government.[[User:JonM|JonM]] 21:49, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
The books are critical of a totalitarianist government and of facism, but not of big government in sense that the word is generally used. I imagine the characters would have loved "Spreading of the wealth" or government funding for healthcare. But that was just my reading of the plot [[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 23:13, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

== Uh what? ==

"who must learn that suffering can cause change for the greater good"

What's this communist rubbish doing in CP? --[[User:SamCoulter|SamCoulter]] 03:24, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
:What exactly are you referring to?--[[User:JamesWilson|James Wilson]] 11:04, 27 March 2012 (EDT)
Pardon me, SamCoulter, but have you read the book? If you had read it, you would know that Katniss, in the story suffers from survivor's complex, brought on by knowledge that the Capitol is torturing her lover, and fighting the capitol only makes it worse. Still she does it.[[User:JonM|JonM]] 21:47, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

Talk:Atlas Shrugged, Part 1

2011-12-07T16:39:17Z

AlexanderSz: Created page with "== reception == there is no section regarding the film's critical reception. I would ad one (in lieu of the useless awards section) but the page is locked. Should I write it he..."

== reception ==
there is no section regarding the film's critical reception. I would ad one (in lieu of the useless awards section) but the page is locked. Should I write it here and then have someone with editing powers ad it in or can you guys unlock the page and allow for editing.

Courtesy

2011-12-06T16:58:41Z

AlexanderSz:

'''Courtesy''' is defined by the Merriam Webster Dictionary as "behavior marked by polished manners or respect for others". it is an essential component of [[chivalry]] and of all standards of decent behavior.

== In Modern Society ==

A key element of [[conservatism]] is concern for the loss of courtesy in modern society, and the corrosive effect this has upon the structures of society as a whole. Recognizing that the traditions and mores of courtesy have value and are worth preserving is, by definition, [[conservative]]; thus, courtesy is an inherently conservative value.

[[Category:Dictionary]]

Talk:Education and competition

2011-12-06T16:53:48Z

AlexanderSz: Created page with "reads more like an essay than an article, maybe it should be recategorized as such?"

reads more like an essay than an article, maybe it should be recategorized as such?

Talk:Essay: "We Are atheism" campaign faces some challenges

2011-12-06T16:50:59Z

AlexanderSz:

== Numbers ==

I'm not too sure about this essay because it gives atheists an opportunity to score some points. Both QE! and "We are atheism" have Facebook pages. The atheists have 3,208 likes since August. QE! has 21 since May. I'm not saying these numbers mean anything, but you better believe that atheists are going to. --[[User:ClearView2011|ClearView2011]] 18:23, 5 December 2011 (EST)
::First, where is this Question evolution! Facebook page that you are referring to? Second, unlike [[global atheism]], the Question evolution! campaign is growing.[http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2011/12/our-growing-question-evolution-campaign.html] Third, has the [[Question evolution! campaign]] decided to pursue an aggressive Facebook campaign yet or are there other tactics/strategies being employed at this stage? Last time I checked, Rome wasn't built in a day! :) Lastly, I am not impressed by a bunch of village atheists doing some Facebook likes. Global atheism is shrinking and continues to shrink. There are 10+ major obstacles facing American Atheism and global atheism. See: [[Essay: Will American atheism be cut by at least 50%?|10 major obstacles for atheism]] [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:59, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:::Go to Facebook and search for "Question Evolution," and you'll find it. As for other tactics they're pursuing, you tell me. This is the only place I've heard about QE! I'd say that not promoting themselves on Facebook would be a serious mistake though. --[[User:ClearView2011|ClearView2011]] 18:49, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:::::One major difference between Western atheists and Christians is that Christians have patience and do not have the childish expectation of overnight results. I suggest reading Jesus's [http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/parable-of-the-mustard-seed-faq.htm mustard seed parable] and reading this article [http://users.adam.com.au/bstett/BChristianIncrease12.htm 2000 years of Christian increase]. Did Christianity start out with 12 disciples? How big is it now? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 18:56, 5 December 2011 (EST)
::::By the way ClearView, do you fit the stereotypes found [http://conservapedia.com/Essay:_%22We_are_atheism%22_campaign_faces_some_challenges#Overcoming_the_stereotypes.3F_You_be_the_judge.21 HERE?] :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:03, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:::::Why would I? I'm not an atheist. What's your problem that you immediately start throwing accusations at the faith of anyone who doesn't agree with you? --[[User:ClearView2011|ClearView2011]] 19:09, 5 December 2011 (EST)
I just asked a simple question. You seem awful defensive. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:17, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:You asked an offensive question, and implied that I'm an atheist. That was completely uncalled for. --[[User:ClearView2011|ClearView2011]] 19:18, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:::You are not an atheist? Well, I am glad we can agree that atheism has no validity. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:44, 5 December 2011 (EST)
::::One last thing, what do you think about [http://siteanalytics.compete.com/weareatheism.com/ this graph?] and [http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/weareatheism.com this report] :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:47, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:::::I think I'm not interested in what you have to say until you apologise for insulting me. --[[User:ClearView2011|ClearView2011]] 19:52, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:::ClearView, let me give you clearer view of a certain Question evolution! campaign group and their recent Facebook exploits: [http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2011/12/facebook-and-our-question-evolution.html Facebook and our Question evolution! campaign group]. Many atheists make the mistake of thinking only things they can see are occurring which certainly has its limitations. :) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVDGgphmcX8&feature=related A good man always knows his limitations.] :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 21:40, 5 December 2011 (EST)

== The website WeAreAtheism.com desperately needs some MACHISMO! ==

Take a look at [http://siteanalytics.compete.com/weareatheism.com/ this graph] as far as the web traffic at WeAreAtheism.com :) Take a look at [http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/weareatheism.com this report.] The website is not exactly doing as well as [[Tim Tebow]]. :) Please see: [[Essay: Atheism vs. Tim Tebow - Tebow wins]]. The website definitely could use some [[Essay: Does Richard Dawkins have machismo?|MACHISMO]]! :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 19:57, 5 December 2011 (EST)

== Question … ==

Conservative, I can see how you link atheism to obesity and that global atheism is shrinking, however the devil's advocate in me also knows that globally there's increasing rates of obesity. In fact the United States, one of the most religious countries, is also one of the most obese. How can this be? [[User:FelixD|FelixD]] 15:59, 5 December 2011 (EST)

::I know public school educated people often have low reading comprehension levels and are indoctrinated into atheism, but I would suggest reading the [[Atheism and obesity]] article and its associated talk page a few more times. :) [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:11, 5 December 2011 (EST)
::(edit conflict)Worldwide atheism is decreasing, but in some specific regions it is increasing (along with those regions' populations, of course, rather than Christians being deconverted). [[User:NickP|NickP]] 20:12, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:::Where? In secular Europe which is in the midst of financial collapse and losing its influence? In some liberal states in the United States which people are moving out of? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:22, 5 December 2011 (EST)
::::That's odd. I was pretty sure that at one point recently some states held increasing rates of atheism. I guess those figures are misleading though. [[User:NickP|NickP]] 20:38, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:My point is that even if atheism is growing in a particular state of the United States that particular state maybe losing influence as the total population of a state may be experiencing a net loss of citizens or stagnant in its growth. For example, California and New York have been losing people in recent years. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 22:19, 5 December 2011 (EST)
::According to the Census, in the last 10 years the populations of NY grew by 2.1% (not much, but still an increase) and California by 10% (above the national average). So despite growth in these places atheism is still on the decline! [[User:AngusT|AngusT]] 08:16, 6 December 2011 (EST)

== Nerd ==
This site frequently makes references to lonely atheistic nerds. It feels out of place in the articles and unprofessional, as well as reinforcing the false stereotype that people who dress like nerds are socially inept. I wouldn't normally care but as a non atheistic nerd who was bullied in school for being a nerd, I would like to ask that maybe we steer away from derogatory terms and act like adults. --[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 11:50, 6 December 2011 (EST)

User:AlexanderSz

2011-12-06T13:51:05Z

AlexanderSz: Created page with "this is my talk page. its a cool place"

this is my talk page. its a cool place

Talk:Motion Picture Association of America

2011-12-06T00:59:06Z

AlexanderSz: Created page with "Id do this myself but feel weird because I'm new. Shouldn't this article be titled "Motion Picture Association of America" and have MPAA redirect to it? seems more proper. --~~~~"

Id do this myself but feel weird because I'm new. Shouldn't this article be titled "Motion Picture Association of America" and have MPAA redirect to it? seems more proper. --[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 19:59, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Talk:Essay:Worst Liberal Movies

2011-12-06T00:55:52Z

AlexanderSz:

I am removing Scarface because it is a remake of a 1932 classic (which had the same plot, and definitely wasn't "liberal"), it in no way "glorifies" gangsterism and drug abuse since at the end of the film it shows the consequences of Tony Montanna's life of crime and drugs (He loses his wife, his best friend and his sister as a result of his reckless ways) and finally, the film is a classic. Even if it is liberal its still one of the most critically acclaimed films of all time and definitely doesn't belong on a list of movies that are the "worst". And as for Ferris Bueller's day off, I'm deleting that one whether you like it or not.
:''And as for Ferris Bueller's day off, I'm deleting that one whether you like it or not.'' Really? Well I am reverting and blocking you - whether you like it or not. Come back with a better, more collaborative, attitude next time. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 17:36, 4 September 2011 (EDT)

The name of this article should be changed to "Most overtly liberal movies" since several of the mentioned films are very well made and thus good movies.
--[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 19:55, 5 December 2011 (EST)

== questionable entries ==

can a new category for movies that are questionably liberal be added. "The Social Network" is not overtly liberal. In the protagonist in a negative light, showing how Facebook ruins his life (his best friend sues him, he seems depressed, etc). It depicts everyone involved as jerks. It is questionably liberal because some liberals like the mean spirited Zuckerberg. Also, V for Vendetta is a libertarian movie. It is anti big government (and I would say anti communism). However it is anti religion, so again, questionably liberal
--[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 19:55, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Motion Picture Association of America

2011-12-06T00:45:30Z

AlexanderSz: /* Criticism */

The '''Motion Picture Association of America''' is the organization that rates movies in the [[United States]].

==Ratings==
'''G''': General Audiances

'''PG''': Parental Guidance

'''PG-13''': Parental Guidance for those under 13

'''R''': Restricted for children under 17 without an adult

'''NC-17''': No children 17 or under.
[[Category:Cinema]]

==Criticism==
The MPAA has been criticized for its overly [[liberal]] tone towards violence in movies. Dick Kirby argues in his documentary ''This film is not yet rated'' that the MPAA is harsher on independent films than mainstream Hollywood films. He also argues that the MPAA is more likely to award an R or NC-17 for sexual content than for violence. Especially non gory violent films, which can get away with PG or PG-13 (such as The Star Wars saga, which depicts war scenes but never has got an R rating).

Talk:Censorship

2011-12-06T00:28:35Z

AlexanderSz: Please can some admin respond to my question

I would say the Libertarian community is one of the biggest opponents of censorship. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 06:40, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

We are. And also one of the biggest proponents of undermining intellectual dishonesty by whatever means available. --[[User:Sam|Sam]] 08:41, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Both sides of the political spectrum can commit censorship very easily. If you step too far left or too far right you will censor many things, both communist dictators and fascist overlords have censored in modern history. Conservatives want to censor to hide military information or blunders such as a press blackout or to hide something that they deem to be "obscene", whereas liberals would want to censor things that are deemed offensive to other people's culture or removes rights. Either way, censorship is terrible and clearly not the Framer's Intent. --[[User:JamesLipton|JamesLipton]] 22:16, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

::What a perfect description of what conservapedia does.

== Censorship of Michelangelo ==

I can only marvel at the irony. You don't dispute the facts, you only characterize them as anti-Catholic. Which is absurd. The Pope himself defended Michelagelo, and I stated that fact. The site cited is not a Wikipedia mirror site, but if you need a different citation, I can certainly find one. But, again, it is not the facts you dispute. The facts are inconvenient (for you., personally, for some reason), and so you censor them. How appropriate. You remind me of nothing so much as the Soviet revisionists of history. NitramNos 14:25, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
:The subterfuge you employed to place this WP content gave it away. And of course the [[Counter-Reformation]] stab. If you wish to contribute constructively, please do so. However CP's content will not controlled and regulated by outside influences. [[User:RobS|RobS]]
::I have not the slightest idea what you mean when you refer to subterfuge. Please be more specific, unless this is just an example of your paranoia affecting your better judgement. Your accusations are a rather wild. Have you actually looked at the reference I cited? It is not a WP mirror site. I added the Counter-Reformation fact (which you characterize so typically in your paranoid fashion as a "stab") after checking my notes and seeing I had left that out (as you would see if you did your homework and checked the reference in the first place). I summarized and cited one of the best-known instances of censorship in history, but you do not deem it worthy of the Censorship article. Controlled and regulated by outside "influences." Get a grip! NitramNos 14:39, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Inserted for the record [http://www.edinformatics.com/great_thinkers/michelangelo.htm] reads at the bottom of the page,
*''All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (see Copyrights for details). Disclaimers. Wikipedia is powered by MediaWiki, an open source wiki engine.''

== Bunker Mentality ==

You people are a work of art! You do not consider the alteration of a work of art to be censorship? What planet do you live on? NitramNos 14:52, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

:You people...you people....who do you think you are talking to, Ross Perot? [http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/1996/11/05/Resources/Guest.Column.Perots.RaceBaiting.Hurts.Everyone-2176171.shtml] [[User:RobS|RobS]] 17:19, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

== Examples ==

This page would really benefit from some examples of censorship. American examples that come immediately to mind are various parent groups removing books like ''The Catcher in the Rye'' from schools, the military blacking out parts of letters sent by soldiers during wartime, and ratings systems like those for movies keeping some content away from audiences. I can see how the Michelangelo example can be written with an anti-Catholic sentiment, but reporting the true historical incident is not inherently anti-Catholic, just like talking about the Holocaust today isn't inherently anti-German. So, that may be a good non-American example to keep if it can be rewritten. China's policy of censoring most media content entering the country provides another international example that would be instructive. {{unsigned|AnilaWafer}}

:I agree with you for the most part, though movie ratings aren't censorship, because you can still put whatever you want into movies (plus they are voluntary, despite their ubiquitousness). CP is an open encyclopedia, so as long as you follow the [[conservapedia:commandments|rules]], feel free to add new material to the article! [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 23:39, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

== What is not censorship? ==

I don't know about all of you, but when I open an article on any given subject, I like to be told '''what it is''', maybe throw in some history of censorship, it's origin ('''does not''' belong at the end of the article) etc. etc.

Will somebody please be a dear and redo this article [[User:DLerner|DLerner]] 06:34, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Rewritten intro ==

The intro as it stood was not very good. The examples given weren't very good (the prevention of official school prayer, for example, is not censorship) and one of them linked to a highly unencyclopedic article about "liberal friendship". I have replaced these with better examples of censorship, and a better introduction to what exactly it means. Also deleted the history section (which was only a single sentence and didn't warrant a whole section to itself) and incorporated it into the opening.[[User:Eoinc|Eoinc]] 07:49, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

User:EdPoor, you reverted some of my last edits and restored some of the examples that I had replaced, without giving any reason on the talk page.

There are three examples in question: the removal of school prayer, the destruction of conservative newspapers on college campuses, and the ostracization of students for their pro-life or conservative views. I removed these for the following reasons:

1. Regarding school prayer, I am of the opinion, as are many others, that it does not constitute censorship. What is prevented under the establishment clause is official school-led prayer, not prayer ''per se''. If this is censorship, it is certainly not a particularly clear example of it, unlike the Google China situation, or the fictional examples from ''1984''. It is far better to give examples of things which are clearly, unambiguously, censorship, than it is to give as an example something which is hotly contested.

2. The destruction of conservative newspapers links to a news report of one such instance in Bucknell college, which is cited as being an act of vandalism by other students. Therefore it is not a particularly clear example of censorship. An article which seeks to give an overview of a topic should give the most "textbook" examples that it can.

3. Ostracization is not the same as censorship. A university which denies tenure to a conservative (for no other reason than their conservative views) is guilty of discrimination, not censorship. A liberal student who refuses to talk to a conservative student (again, for no other reason) is guilty of several things: foolishness, closed-mindedness, ignorance, etc, but not censorship.

What happened in South Africa when the government could ban its political opponents from being quoted in any media is censorship. The burning of books is censorship. The limits imposed upon journalists living in East Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall amounted to censorship. The blocking of human rights websites and references to the 1989 Tianamen square protests on Google China is censorship. These examples you gave are not nearly as definitive. To mention them ''in the opening sentences'', frankly, demeans the more serious examples.

If you disagree with me, I am happy to discuss our disagreement here. Until then, as per the reasons given here and in my previous post, I am reverting the page. [[User:Eoinc|Eoinc]] 10:12, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I hope the irony of censoring opposing views is not escaping you. We welcome alternatives to conservative POV around here, provided they are properly labeled. When it comes to controversial issues, [[unmarked]] ideas are either common knowledge or distinctly conservative, but liberal ideas don't get the same respect. So tread carefully.

:Even if you are an original thinker with much to share, I adjure you to work harmoniously here by adhering to our rules and customs. Be sure to avoid edit wars, particularly with sysops. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 10:27, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== The more recent examples ==

I see these have been added back to the article: the vandalism of a conservative newspaper in Bucknell college; the banning of official school prayer; and the ostracisation of people for their conservative or pro-life views.

Above, I have argued that these examples are not particularly good examples of censorship, and so substituted them with the examples of Google China, "clean" versions of CDs, Nineteen Eighty Four, and reaction to Galileo. All are clear-cut examples of different sorts of censorship, as everybody (I presume) would agree. In contrast, the destruction of a student newspaper by other students is a better example of vandalism than censorship; the ostracisation of individuals for their views is a better example of unfair discrimination or bigotry than censorship; and what is prevented by banning official school prayer is the implication of state endorsement of any ''particular'' religion. Prayer itself is not banned - the teachers and students still have their first amendment rights - so it is not a clear example of censorship.

When an encyclopedia illustrates a topic by providing examples, it should use the most definitive, "textbook" examples available. The examples I removed are not. I should add also that they are not any more recent than Google China or censorship of films and music.

They have, however, been returned to the article without comment, and without any reply to my reasons for removing them in the first place. I will not revert the edit, but instead will try to reach consensus, as Ed Poor kindly advised. [[User:Eoinc|Eoinc]] 09:32, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

: Eoinc, the ''sine qua non'' of censorship is the suppression of speech by ''others'', not oneself. Our examples fit that bill; many of your examples do not.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:47, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Jpatt's censorship line ==

I think Jpatt's line ''"protesting and disrupting invited conservative speakers on campuses."'' needs a little more elaboration. By and of itself, this may not constitute censorship, but if the college adminsitration allows the protestors to disrupt and stop the conservative speaking engagement and does nothing to stop it, then it would constitute censorship. Any thoughts? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 12:59, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:I still don't think that would constitute censorship, because if they administration really wanter to censor, they would just dissallow the speaker or refuse to give funding. (The latter has happend to the conservative group at Bucknell numerous times). I just think that if we are going to have a list of examples (which we probably shouldn't, but that's another debate), we should keep it short and filled with very cut and dry examples. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:02, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::if not censorship, then it is a failed attempt at censorship. Not by administrators but by others. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 13:07, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:::In my argument above, I was thinking censorship at the college administration level ''by proxy'' in not preventing a mob from disrupting an authorized speaking engagement. Are there any examples of such that could be used here? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 13:10, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::::It seems to me a distinction should be made between protesting and disrupting. The latter may be censorship, but making one's opposition known through lining up outside a venue waving signs is a healthy part of free speech and assembly. [[User:BrianH|BrianH]] 13:13, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::JP: failed attempts at censorship aren't really great examples of censorship then. I just don't see the need to find as many examples as possible. (I've said this before on some other talk page, but I don't remember where anymore). [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:16, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

== Classroom prayer ==

Can anyone explain to me why a refusal to allow classroom prayer amounts to censorship?

I suggest that it be removed from the examples listed in the article. --[[User:TCochrane|TCochrane]] 17:57, 26 December 2008 (EST)
:Happy to help. I recently argued that censorship requires (1) state or state-like action, and (2) removal of information (3) for subjective, viewpoint-discriminatory reasons. The class prayer fits all of those. It's the state removing information because it disapproves of Christian religiosity. Open & shut. Have you ever read the classroom prayer cases, by the way? They're ludicrous.-[[User:AlexanderM|AlexanderM]] 18:01, 26 December 2008 (EST)

::Thanks for the prompt response. Your definition is interesting. I wonder about some aspects, however. For example, point 2 seems too broad to be meaningful. What does "removal of information" mean in the context of prayer? Surely censorship requires the prevention of information passing from one person to another. That is at the heart of my comment above. Prayer, as I understand it, is between an individual and the Almighty. I do not see how any human authority could prevent such communication. Further, refusing to allow classroom prayer does not stop anyone diseminating Christian (or other religious) ideas at school. Free discussion is still allowed (so far as I am aware). It seems to me to be a doubtful example at best. Do the cases that you refer to throw any light on the issue? I have not had the pleasure of reading them. --[[User:TCochrane|TCochrane]] 18:14, 26 December 2008 (EST)

== made some edits ==
made some edits to the page. Feel free to comment. They regard the baning of books, mostly from school libraries
[[User:RickPorter|RickPorter]] 09:33, 17 January 2009 (EST)

: You've fallen for the liberal hype. Please learn how to spell "banning".--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:35, 17 January 2009 (EST)
::ummm...How isnt it censorship. They were banned right? Well, HArry Potter has never been removed for long, but even if we agree with it, isnt this supposed to be a trustworthy encyclopedia, One we can rely on for information like this?
[[User:RickPorter|RickPorter]] 09:42, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:::Do you protest the removal of Bibles from the same school libraries? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 09:44, 17 January 2009 (EST)
::::Yes. I dont openly protest anything, since their IN my school library. But if they were removed and someone was making a petition to get them back in, I'd sign it...its not a matter of what i support anyway. I want this to be a good encyclopedia[[User:RickPorter|RickPorter]] 09:48, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:::::Guess what, WE want this to be a good encyclopedia too, that is why were going to make it SAFE for the kids and the parents who supervise them. Which is why we're not going to tolerate the likes of trash such as ''Heather Has Two Mommies''. So, it's safe to say that we are going to be selective in what is posted here, and what is thrown out. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 09:54, 17 January 2009 (EST)
::::::...Essentially Censorship. Your pretending these things don't exist. Your deciding for peoples parents that homosexuality is bad, rather than pointing out the facts and letting them decide. saying that the book is banned in some places does not make this encyclopedia in support of their agenda, btw. Your denying the facts [[User:RickPorter|RickPorter]] 10:28, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:::::::No, I'm not pretending these things don't exist; I know full-well they do. I also know that there are many sites out on the web that in one form or another can and do practice censorship. What is clearly implied here in your postings is not so much something against censorship, but you with an agenda that we change our view here and allow what the mob thinks should be. No, we're not going to allow either Heather or her two mommies; no, we're not going to support Heather's two mommies; no, we're not going to expose the kids to Heather's two mommies; and no, we're not going to give lip-service to a clown who thinks that every library in town (and this site) is being very naughty for censoring Heather and her two mommies. We've got an encyclopedia to build; you have an agenda to push, which is not here. Have a nice day. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 11:12, 17 January 2009 (EST)
::::::::So, it's not censorship, but merely "not exposing the kids to Heather's two mommies"? How on earth is refusing to even present an idea not censorship? If conservative positions are really better, shouldn't it be obvious, and thus not require censorship to "protect" people from ideas? It truly does appear that the Irony Meter has asploded.[[User:JHC|JHC]] 20:20, 19 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::It's whether or not we want the kids exposed to what amounts to the difference between a good idea and a bad idea. I think kids should be exposed to good ideas only, not bad ones, or bad ones disguised as good ones. For example, it's not a good idea that you, KrisTree, should come back after a block to create a new sock - JHC - just to rant about what you think is censorship here. Bad idea. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 20:28, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

== Internal Contradiction ==

I'm honestly not 'trolling' or trying to insult anything or anyone here... I want to be respectful. But isn't it a contradiction to say that censorship is a liberal trait, when this website itself censors edits and talk pages? Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to cause offence, just wondering. -- Dollfuss.

== examples of censorship ==
I know this is a conservative encyclopedia, but the lack of neutral examples in the intro makes it sound silly. Like the example "Censorship can also take the form of ostracizing students for expressing pro-life or other conservative views". That example SHOULD be broadened to "Censorship can also take the form of ostracizing students for expressing ideas that conflict with their professor's ideology" because that is more the issue. Yes, it happens to people who express conservative views, but there are also professors who have conservative viewpoints and ostracize liberal ones. I am not going to get into a fight over this, but i do suggest changing back to my previous edit. thanks :) --[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 15:50, 4 December 2011 (EST)
:Can you give an example of conservative professors censoring liberal students? Conservatism is all about [[open mind]]edness. [[User:NickP|NickP]] 16:04, 4 December 2011 (EST)
:: My highschool band teacher wouldnt let us include a John Lennon song in our Christmas song medley because it "Promoted communism". The song actually about peace and never mentions collectivism or economy or politics (beyond being pro peace). My seventh grade History Teacher blatantly pushed pro life and pro War in Iraq ideas into 7th graders while silencing anti war arguments (granted the arguments sucked because the kids were 12 but that makes his overt political agenda all the more inappropriate). This compared to my 10th grade history teacher who, while being a moderate liberal, always played devils advocate (i only learned of his political views through a conversation i had with him during non school hours). in college i have not noticed anything substantial. Like I Said, I have no desire to make this into a war but I think that making the examples more universal/more accurate would benefit the quality of this website--[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 16:20, 4 December 2011 (EST)
:::If no one responds I will take it as a yes. --[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 19:28, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Talk:Censorship

2011-12-05T01:27:30Z

AlexanderSz: /* examples of censorship */

Talk:Censorship

2011-12-04T21:20:37Z

AlexanderSz: /* examples of censorship */

I would say the Libertarian community is one of the biggest opponents of censorship. [[User:ColinR|ColinR]] 06:40, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

We are. And also one of the biggest proponents of undermining intellectual dishonesty by whatever means available. --[[User:Sam|Sam]] 08:41, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

:Both sides of the political spectrum can commit censorship very easily. If you step too far left or too far right you will censor many things, both communist dictators and fascist overlords have censored in modern history. Conservatives want to censor to hide military information or blunders such as a press blackout or to hide something that they deem to be "obscene", whereas liberals would want to censor things that are deemed offensive to other people's culture or removes rights. Either way, censorship is terrible and clearly not the Framer's Intent. --[[User:JamesLipton|JamesLipton]] 22:16, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

::What a perfect description of what conservapedia does.

== Censorship of Michelangelo ==

I can only marvel at the irony. You don't dispute the facts, you only characterize them as anti-Catholic. Which is absurd. The Pope himself defended Michelagelo, and I stated that fact. The site cited is not a Wikipedia mirror site, but if you need a different citation, I can certainly find one. But, again, it is not the facts you dispute. The facts are inconvenient (for you., personally, for some reason), and so you censor them. How appropriate. You remind me of nothing so much as the Soviet revisionists of history. NitramNos 14:25, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
:The subterfuge you employed to place this WP content gave it away. And of course the [[Counter-Reformation]] stab. If you wish to contribute constructively, please do so. However CP's content will not controlled and regulated by outside influences. [[User:RobS|RobS]]
::I have not the slightest idea what you mean when you refer to subterfuge. Please be more specific, unless this is just an example of your paranoia affecting your better judgement. Your accusations are a rather wild. Have you actually looked at the reference I cited? It is not a WP mirror site. I added the Counter-Reformation fact (which you characterize so typically in your paranoid fashion as a "stab") after checking my notes and seeing I had left that out (as you would see if you did your homework and checked the reference in the first place). I summarized and cited one of the best-known instances of censorship in history, but you do not deem it worthy of the Censorship article. Controlled and regulated by outside "influences." Get a grip! NitramNos 14:39, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Inserted for the record [http://www.edinformatics.com/great_thinkers/michelangelo.htm] reads at the bottom of the page,
*''All text is available under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License (see Copyrights for details). Disclaimers. Wikipedia is powered by MediaWiki, an open source wiki engine.''

== Bunker Mentality ==

You people are a work of art! You do not consider the alteration of a work of art to be censorship? What planet do you live on? NitramNos 14:52, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

:You people...you people....who do you think you are talking to, Ross Perot? [http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/1996/11/05/Resources/Guest.Column.Perots.RaceBaiting.Hurts.Everyone-2176171.shtml] [[User:RobS|RobS]] 17:19, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

== Examples ==

This page would really benefit from some examples of censorship. American examples that come immediately to mind are various parent groups removing books like ''The Catcher in the Rye'' from schools, the military blacking out parts of letters sent by soldiers during wartime, and ratings systems like those for movies keeping some content away from audiences. I can see how the Michelangelo example can be written with an anti-Catholic sentiment, but reporting the true historical incident is not inherently anti-Catholic, just like talking about the Holocaust today isn't inherently anti-German. So, that may be a good non-American example to keep if it can be rewritten. China's policy of censoring most media content entering the country provides another international example that would be instructive. {{unsigned|AnilaWafer}}

:I agree with you for the most part, though movie ratings aren't censorship, because you can still put whatever you want into movies (plus they are voluntary, despite their ubiquitousness). CP is an open encyclopedia, so as long as you follow the [[conservapedia:commandments|rules]], feel free to add new material to the article! [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 23:39, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

== What is not censorship? ==

I don't know about all of you, but when I open an article on any given subject, I like to be told '''what it is''', maybe throw in some history of censorship, it's origin ('''does not''' belong at the end of the article) etc. etc.

Will somebody please be a dear and redo this article [[User:DLerner|DLerner]] 06:34, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

== Rewritten intro ==

The intro as it stood was not very good. The examples given weren't very good (the prevention of official school prayer, for example, is not censorship) and one of them linked to a highly unencyclopedic article about "liberal friendship". I have replaced these with better examples of censorship, and a better introduction to what exactly it means. Also deleted the history section (which was only a single sentence and didn't warrant a whole section to itself) and incorporated it into the opening.[[User:Eoinc|Eoinc]] 07:49, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

User:EdPoor, you reverted some of my last edits and restored some of the examples that I had replaced, without giving any reason on the talk page.

There are three examples in question: the removal of school prayer, the destruction of conservative newspapers on college campuses, and the ostracization of students for their pro-life or conservative views. I removed these for the following reasons:

1. Regarding school prayer, I am of the opinion, as are many others, that it does not constitute censorship. What is prevented under the establishment clause is official school-led prayer, not prayer ''per se''. If this is censorship, it is certainly not a particularly clear example of it, unlike the Google China situation, or the fictional examples from ''1984''. It is far better to give examples of things which are clearly, unambiguously, censorship, than it is to give as an example something which is hotly contested.

2. The destruction of conservative newspapers links to a news report of one such instance in Bucknell college, which is cited as being an act of vandalism by other students. Therefore it is not a particularly clear example of censorship. An article which seeks to give an overview of a topic should give the most "textbook" examples that it can.

3. Ostracization is not the same as censorship. A university which denies tenure to a conservative (for no other reason than their conservative views) is guilty of discrimination, not censorship. A liberal student who refuses to talk to a conservative student (again, for no other reason) is guilty of several things: foolishness, closed-mindedness, ignorance, etc, but not censorship.

What happened in South Africa when the government could ban its political opponents from being quoted in any media is censorship. The burning of books is censorship. The limits imposed upon journalists living in East Germany before the fall of the Berlin Wall amounted to censorship. The blocking of human rights websites and references to the 1989 Tianamen square protests on Google China is censorship. These examples you gave are not nearly as definitive. To mention them ''in the opening sentences'', frankly, demeans the more serious examples.

If you disagree with me, I am happy to discuss our disagreement here. Until then, as per the reasons given here and in my previous post, I am reverting the page. [[User:Eoinc|Eoinc]] 10:12, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

:I hope the irony of censoring opposing views is not escaping you. We welcome alternatives to conservative POV around here, provided they are properly labeled. When it comes to controversial issues, [[unmarked]] ideas are either common knowledge or distinctly conservative, but liberal ideas don't get the same respect. So tread carefully.

:Even if you are an original thinker with much to share, I adjure you to work harmoniously here by adhering to our rules and customs. Be sure to avoid edit wars, particularly with sysops. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 10:27, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

== The more recent examples ==

I see these have been added back to the article: the vandalism of a conservative newspaper in Bucknell college; the banning of official school prayer; and the ostracisation of people for their conservative or pro-life views.

Above, I have argued that these examples are not particularly good examples of censorship, and so substituted them with the examples of Google China, "clean" versions of CDs, Nineteen Eighty Four, and reaction to Galileo. All are clear-cut examples of different sorts of censorship, as everybody (I presume) would agree. In contrast, the destruction of a student newspaper by other students is a better example of vandalism than censorship; the ostracisation of individuals for their views is a better example of unfair discrimination or bigotry than censorship; and what is prevented by banning official school prayer is the implication of state endorsement of any ''particular'' religion. Prayer itself is not banned - the teachers and students still have their first amendment rights - so it is not a clear example of censorship.

When an encyclopedia illustrates a topic by providing examples, it should use the most definitive, "textbook" examples available. The examples I removed are not. I should add also that they are not any more recent than Google China or censorship of films and music.

They have, however, been returned to the article without comment, and without any reply to my reasons for removing them in the first place. I will not revert the edit, but instead will try to reach consensus, as Ed Poor kindly advised. [[User:Eoinc|Eoinc]] 09:32, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

: Eoinc, the ''sine qua non'' of censorship is the suppression of speech by ''others'', not oneself. Our examples fit that bill; many of your examples do not.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 14:47, 13 May 2008 (EDT)

== Jpatt's censorship line ==

I think Jpatt's line ''"protesting and disrupting invited conservative speakers on campuses."'' needs a little more elaboration. By and of itself, this may not constitute censorship, but if the college adminsitration allows the protestors to disrupt and stop the conservative speaking engagement and does nothing to stop it, then it would constitute censorship. Any thoughts? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 12:59, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:I still don't think that would constitute censorship, because if they administration really wanter to censor, they would just dissallow the speaker or refuse to give funding. (The latter has happend to the conservative group at Bucknell numerous times). I just think that if we are going to have a list of examples (which we probably shouldn't, but that's another debate), we should keep it short and filled with very cut and dry examples. [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:02, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::if not censorship, then it is a failed attempt at censorship. Not by administrators but by others. -- [[Image:50 star flag.png|14px]] [[User:Jpatt|jp]] 13:07, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:::In my argument above, I was thinking censorship at the college administration level ''by proxy'' in not preventing a mob from disrupting an authorized speaking engagement. Are there any examples of such that could be used here? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 13:10, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
::::It seems to me a distinction should be made between protesting and disrupting. The latter may be censorship, but making one's opposition known through lining up outside a venue waving signs is a healthy part of free speech and assembly. [[User:BrianH|BrianH]] 13:13, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
:::::JP: failed attempts at censorship aren't really great examples of censorship then. I just don't see the need to find as many examples as possible. (I've said this before on some other talk page, but I don't remember where anymore). [[User:HelpJazz|Help]][[User talk:HelpJazz|Jazz]] 13:16, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

== Classroom prayer ==

Can anyone explain to me why a refusal to allow classroom prayer amounts to censorship?

I suggest that it be removed from the examples listed in the article. --[[User:TCochrane|TCochrane]] 17:57, 26 December 2008 (EST)
:Happy to help. I recently argued that censorship requires (1) state or state-like action, and (2) removal of information (3) for subjective, viewpoint-discriminatory reasons. The class prayer fits all of those. It's the state removing information because it disapproves of Christian religiosity. Open & shut. Have you ever read the classroom prayer cases, by the way? They're ludicrous.-[[User:AlexanderM|AlexanderM]] 18:01, 26 December 2008 (EST)

::Thanks for the prompt response. Your definition is interesting. I wonder about some aspects, however. For example, point 2 seems too broad to be meaningful. What does "removal of information" mean in the context of prayer? Surely censorship requires the prevention of information passing from one person to another. That is at the heart of my comment above. Prayer, as I understand it, is between an individual and the Almighty. I do not see how any human authority could prevent such communication. Further, refusing to allow classroom prayer does not stop anyone diseminating Christian (or other religious) ideas at school. Free discussion is still allowed (so far as I am aware). It seems to me to be a doubtful example at best. Do the cases that you refer to throw any light on the issue? I have not had the pleasure of reading them. --[[User:TCochrane|TCochrane]] 18:14, 26 December 2008 (EST)

== made some edits ==
made some edits to the page. Feel free to comment. They regard the baning of books, mostly from school libraries
[[User:RickPorter|RickPorter]] 09:33, 17 January 2009 (EST)

: You've fallen for the liberal hype. Please learn how to spell "banning".--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 09:35, 17 January 2009 (EST)
::ummm...How isnt it censorship. They were banned right? Well, HArry Potter has never been removed for long, but even if we agree with it, isnt this supposed to be a trustworthy encyclopedia, One we can rely on for information like this?
[[User:RickPorter|RickPorter]] 09:42, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:::Do you protest the removal of Bibles from the same school libraries? [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 09:44, 17 January 2009 (EST)
::::Yes. I dont openly protest anything, since their IN my school library. But if they were removed and someone was making a petition to get them back in, I'd sign it...its not a matter of what i support anyway. I want this to be a good encyclopedia[[User:RickPorter|RickPorter]] 09:48, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:::::Guess what, WE want this to be a good encyclopedia too, that is why were going to make it SAFE for the kids and the parents who supervise them. Which is why we're not going to tolerate the likes of trash such as ''Heather Has Two Mommies''. So, it's safe to say that we are going to be selective in what is posted here, and what is thrown out. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 09:54, 17 January 2009 (EST)
::::::...Essentially Censorship. Your pretending these things don't exist. Your deciding for peoples parents that homosexuality is bad, rather than pointing out the facts and letting them decide. saying that the book is banned in some places does not make this encyclopedia in support of their agenda, btw. Your denying the facts [[User:RickPorter|RickPorter]] 10:28, 17 January 2009 (EST)
:::::::No, I'm not pretending these things don't exist; I know full-well they do. I also know that there are many sites out on the web that in one form or another can and do practice censorship. What is clearly implied here in your postings is not so much something against censorship, but you with an agenda that we change our view here and allow what the mob thinks should be. No, we're not going to allow either Heather or her two mommies; no, we're not going to support Heather's two mommies; no, we're not going to expose the kids to Heather's two mommies; and no, we're not going to give lip-service to a clown who thinks that every library in town (and this site) is being very naughty for censoring Heather and her two mommies. We've got an encyclopedia to build; you have an agenda to push, which is not here. Have a nice day. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 11:12, 17 January 2009 (EST)
::::::::So, it's not censorship, but merely "not exposing the kids to Heather's two mommies"? How on earth is refusing to even present an idea not censorship? If conservative positions are really better, shouldn't it be obvious, and thus not require censorship to "protect" people from ideas? It truly does appear that the Irony Meter has asploded.[[User:JHC|JHC]] 20:20, 19 March 2009 (EDT)
:::::::::It's whether or not we want the kids exposed to what amounts to the difference between a good idea and a bad idea. I think kids should be exposed to good ideas only, not bad ones, or bad ones disguised as good ones. For example, it's not a good idea that you, KrisTree, should come back after a block to create a new sock - JHC - just to rant about what you think is censorship here. Bad idea. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 20:28, 19 March 2009 (EDT)

== Internal Contradiction ==

I'm honestly not 'trolling' or trying to insult anything or anyone here... I want to be respectful. But isn't it a contradiction to say that censorship is a liberal trait, when this website itself censors edits and talk pages? Please don't misunderstand, I'm not trying to cause offence, just wondering. -- Dollfuss.

== examples of censorship ==
I know this is a conservative encyclopedia, but the lack of neutral examples in the intro makes it sound silly. Like the example "Censorship can also take the form of ostracizing students for expressing pro-life or other conservative views". That example SHOULD be broadened to "Censorship can also take the form of ostracizing students for expressing ideas that conflict with their professor's ideology" because that is more the issue. Yes, it happens to people who express conservative views, but there are also professors who have conservative viewpoints and ostracize liberal ones. I am not going to get into a fight over this, but i do suggest changing back to my previous edit. thanks :) --[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 15:50, 4 December 2011 (EST)
:Can you give an example of conservative professors censoring liberal students? Conservatism is all about [[open mind]]edness. [[User:NickP|NickP]] 16:04, 4 December 2011 (EST)
:: My highschool band teacher wouldnt let us include a John Lennon song in our Christmas song medley because it "Promoted communism". The song actually about peace and never mentions collectivism or economy or politics (beyond being pro peace). My seventh grade History Teacher blatantly pushed pro life and pro War in Iraq ideas into 7th graders while silencing anti war arguments (granted the arguments sucked because the kids were 12 but that makes his overt political agenda all the more inappropriate). This compared to my 10th grade history teacher who, while being a moderate liberal, always played devils advocate (i only learned of his political views through a conversation i had with him during non school hours). in college i have not noticed anything substantial. --[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 16:20, 4 December 2011 (EST)

Talk:Censorship

2011-12-04T20:50:58Z

AlexanderSz:

Motion Picture Association of America

2011-12-04T20:44:23Z

AlexanderSz: R is restricted for children under 17, not 16

Censorship

2011-12-04T20:40:44Z

AlexanderSz: removed some specifications of "Conservative" censorship, since they are actually irrelevant to the definition of censorship and just sound silly

[[Image:Hitler-3.jpg‎ |right|400px|thumb|Adolf Hitler's rise to power was greatly aided by '''censoring''' his critics.<ref>]http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/censorship_in_nazi_germany.htm Censorship in Nazi Germany]</ref><ref>[http://www.ushmm.org/outreach/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007677 US Holocaust Museum]</ref><ref>[http://www.historyofpainters.com/entartete.htm Censorship of media and the fine arts]</ref><ref>[http://www.ushmm.org/research/library/bibliography/index.php?content=1933_bookburning Essay on Bookburning</ref>]]
'''Censorship''' is the suppression of statements or information for ideological reasons. Current examples of censorship include:

*the banning of [[prayer]] in the classroom.<ref>See, e.g., [[classroom prayer]].</ref>
*the removal of [[conservative]] ideas from Wikipedia. 
*the rejection of [[pro-life]] advertisements.<ref>See, e.g., "[[Canadian]] City Backpedals on Decision to Censor [[Pro-life]] Bus-shelter Ads." [http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/jun/08060506.html]</ref>
*the banning of mention of [[intelligent design]] in school.<ref>See, e.g., [[Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed]].</ref>
*the vandalizing of pro-life displays and conservative websites.

*Censorship can also take the form of ostracizing students for expressing ideas that go against the ideology of their professor
*protesting and disrupting invited speakers on campuses.<ref>[http://www.nysun.com/new-york/at-columbia-students-attack-minuteman-founder/41020/ At Columbia, Students Attack Minuteman Founder] Ny Sun, October 5, 2006</ref>
*Censorship is sometimes based on a misuse of [[copyright]], as in the unsuccessful attempt to censor the movie [[Expelled:No Intelligence Allowed]] about [[intelligent design]].<ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7432860.stm</ref>

*the destruction or theft of newspapers on college campuses.<ref>http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19383118&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8</ref>
*Censorship of [[conservative]] [[talk radio]] via the [[Fairness Doctrine]]

*[[Internet censorship]] employed by a country, which can include such things as the filtering of anti-government sites in [[China]] or the censoring of [[women's rights]] or anti-[[Islam]] sites in [[Middle East|Middle Eastern]] countries

*Schools banning or using [[placement bias]] to keep students from books such as the [[Bible]], or books critical of the [[theory of evolution]].

Political censorship involves a government preventing information from reaching its citizens. Perhaps the best-known contemporary example of this is China's censorship of the [[Google]] search engine, known as the "Golden Shield Project", which prevents Google from displaying search results of some human rights websites, websites promoting Tibetan independence, references to the 1989 Tianamen Square protests, and others. A famous example in fiction is George Orwell's novel ''[[Nineteen Eighty-Four]]'', in which the main character works as a civil servant in the department responsible for altering or destroying historical information which the government wishes to keep secret. The rationale behind political censorship is that the political party in power can protect itself from revolution if the public is kept uninformed.

The term '''censorship''' derives from ''censor'', the title of the Roman official who conducted the census and supervised public morality.

==The First Amendment and censorship in the U. S.==
In the United States, the [[First Amendment]] states that "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Broadly speaking, the First Amendment is designed to prevent the government from exercising censorship. However, the government sometimes censors political and religious speech anyway.

More specifically, the government should not exercise "prior restraint." That is, a citizen should not need advance permission from the government in order to publish something, unless it threatens [[national security]]. This does not mean that publication may not have consequences: a citizen can be sued for publishing [[libel]], or incarcerated for disclosing military secrets, but the consequences typically occur ''after'' publication, not before.

Censorship is sometimes applied to prohibit obscenity that goes against common standards of public [[morality]]; under US law the first amendment does not protect material considered legally obscene. The definition of obscenity has and continues to vary, with the current Supreme Court definition being the [[Miller test]]. In practical terms, this allows harmful material such as pornography to be criminalized without violating the First Amendment.

Censorship may also be directed at religious ideas, as in the Saudi Arabian prohibition on preaching Christianity, liberal restrictions on public expressions of religion, or the Roman Catholic Church's now-recinded ''Index Librorum Prohibitorum''.

Certain language and images that may have been censored in the past are typically common fare in the American media today. On the other hand, while nudity, for example, may be acceptable on mainstream French television, that is much less likely to be accepted in American television and even less acceptable in conservative Muslim countries.

== Quotes ==
*''All censorships exist to prevent anyone from challenging current conceptions and existing institutions. All progress is initiated by challenging current conceptions, and executed by supplanting existing institutions. Consequently the first condition of progress is the removal of censorship.'' '''[[George Bernard Shaw]]<ref>"The Author's Apology, preface to "Mrs. Warren's Profession".</ref>

==See also==
*[[Censorability]]
*[[Fairness Doctrine]]
*[[Liberal censorship]]
*[[Muhammad cartoons controversy]]

== References ==

<references/>

[[Category:Political Terms]]
[[Category:Religion and Politics]]
[[Category:First Amendment]]
[[Category:Liberal Traits]]

Talk:Essay:Greatest Conservative Songs

2011-10-25T21:04:15Z

AlexanderSz:

See [http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzZkNDU5MmViNzVjNzkzMDE3NzNlN2MyZjRjYTk4YjE= this]. [[User:Stryker|Stryker]] 10:04, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

: The [[neoconservative]] ''National Review'' list is 95% garbage, not [[conservative]] at all. I only found one tune on the list that should be added ours ("Stand by your man"), and National Review had it at #50.

: The contrast here with ''National Review'' illustrates the need for ''Conservapedia''. But thanks for your link.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:31, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Oops... it seems that I added a bunch of songs from that list. Several of mine (Brick, Red Barchetta, I Can't Drive 55, Sweet Home Alabama, and Revolution 1) were on there. That's interesting, though... the NR person and I thought alike on this one. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 17:16, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Sweet Home Alabama? I love that song (and I'm a liberal)! Revolution's great, too.--[[User:Autofire|Autofire]] 18:29, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Sorry? Why was my entry for The Fall's Pseud Mag Ed removed? They have always been the great deflators of liberal complacency. What is going on?

: Post a link to the lyrics of the song here and we'll see. Also, please sign your entries by using the signature button in the row above the edit box. Thanks.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 11:16, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

Can a song possibly be just a song, rather than a political statement? - BornAgainBrit

: Uh, sure, there are songs that lack any meaning at all. "I wanna hold your hand," for example, is a pleasant jingle from your homeland. I trust we'd agree that it is not the most meaningful song in the world. That tune is fun for reminiscing.

: But surely you don't deny that many songs do have political meaning. [[Liberal]] attempts to deny political bias are familiar to us and no one here is fooled. Godspeed.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 13:37, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

The deletion of Bob Dylan's song was not properly explained. Observing that people serve either the devil or the Lord is a conservative observation, and of course Bob Dylan was a born-again Christian who expressed his faith in song (but don't expect [[liberals]] to tell you that).--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 00:03, 21 July 2007 (EDT)

:I didn't mean to step on any toes, but apathy towards devil worship doesn't seem to me like a very conservative trait. Unfortunately, the verses of the songs don't give us ''any'' meaning whatsoever, so the only meaning we can glean from the song are the four lines of the chorus, three of which are essentially the same :/ [[User:Jazzman831|Jazzman831]] 14:06, 21 July 2007 (EDT)

::Paradise by the Dashboard light? I know its a song about having pre-marital sex, but the end is about how it screwed up his life.--[[User:Elamdri|Elamdri]] 04:45, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

After reading this list, I've gotta ask, just how do you define a 'conservative' song?--[[User:Offeep|Offeep]] 15:27, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

: [[Conservative]] is a term that is well-understood. A "conservative song" reflects some of those values without diluting them with a [[liberal]] message.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:42, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

I can't believe Okie from Muskogie isn't on here. [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 23:23, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

I know this is being nitpicky, but I don't like the message of Last Kiss because it seems to suggest a works salvation, that one gets to heaven by doing good rather than accepting Jesus. [[User:DanH|DanH]] 23:30, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

:... and on that note, let's open up a can of [[Mountain Dew]] and get ready to [[Debate:Are we saved by faith or works?]] --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 17:16, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

==Last Kiss==
Somebody just put up "Last Kiss;" actually I recall when it was a hit circa 1964 many adults, parents, teachers and ministers where horrified that a song about death was considered appropriate for young people. My my, how things had changed by 1967.... [[User:RobS|RobS]] 18:08, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

Just like 'Teen Angel,' 'Leader of the Pack,' 'Dead Man's Curve,' and 'Tell Laura I Love Her.' [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 00:35, 29 July 2007 (EDT)

==Possible Addition==

Ok, I have a suggestion, but I want some feedback before putting it on the page. I was listening to the radio today, and Another Brick in the Wall by Pink Floyd came on. I was thinking that the song talks about the way that public schools brainwash children and turn them into "bricks" in the wall that is liberal society. In a way, the song is pro-homeschooling, because it's teachers that need to leave the kids alone so that parents can instruct their children correctly. Maybe I'm reaching a bit here, but I wanted to see what you all thought. [[User:SSchultz|SSchultz]] 00:23, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

: I'm open to comments and suggestions about this, but I've never viewed the famous song "another brick in the wall" as conservative. You may be right that the song properly complains about the effect of schooling, but the song doesn't offer any conservative solution that I can see.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 01:10, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

::"Another Brick In The Wall" is more of a neutral song. Its part of a concept album in which the main character slowly seperates himself from society. Most Pink Floyd songs are about madness, due to their original lead singer going insane. [[User:TobyKeet|TobyKeet]] 05:32, 24 November 2010 (EST)

==Love Me, I'm a Liberal==

:I'm glad the commies were thrown out
:Of the A.F.L. C.I.O. board

Hardly sounds like a Communist critique. Have you read all the lyrics of the song? [http://web.cecs.pdx.edu/~trent/ochs/lyrics/liberal.html] It's twitting liberals for their supposed concern for others, which is actually sorely lacking. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 17:14, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

:That song is pure sarcasm and Ochs assumes the role of a 1960s-era (Cold War era) "liberal" to attack them from the extreme left in a sarcastic way. Read the lyrics again, he is attacking the AFL-CIO for throwing out the commies. He is saying liberals aren't far left ''enough''. It's not a conservative song, it's an extreme leftist one. [[User:Parrothead|Parrothead]] 17:22, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

So there's a song on this list about breaking the law 'I can't Drive 55,' and one about obeying the law 'I fought the law.' Which is the conservative value? And the Bobby Fuller Four's version of the latter was the superior version, BTW. [[User:Maestro|Maestro]] 10:40, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

== Are these truly conservative? ==

While I understand completely some of these songs being on here, I don't really understand the why Bob Dylan, The Beatles, or Ben Folds (Five) would be on this list. These individual songs may be able to be warped into our mindset, but if one truly looks at these, they become overwhelmingly liberal.

For example: The Beatles - Revolution
While this song does indeed talk about how "Carrying pictures of Chairman Mao" will do no good, it also talks about how war and money can't solve problems. In addition, if a child is to read tis and decide to find out more about The Beatles, they will undoubtedly find some intensely liberal themes. The same idea goes for Bob Dylan. Look at any of his other songs. At the same time, Ben Folds does exactly the same thing.

I cannot argue with the songs and parts on this list, but I wonder if this is a slippery slope?
::It's possible that many of these songs were adopted by conservatives, such as Mike Huckabee playing John Cougar Mellencamp's hits. [[User:Karajou|Karajou]] 14:48, 18 February 2008 (EST)

: Many of the songs here have a powerful [[conservative]] message, and demonstrate that the music industry does not have to be [[liberal]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:00, 18 February 2008 (EST)

: P.S. [[Liberals]] do say [[conservative]] things from time to time. We're listing songs here, not artists.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:01, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I would just like add that Revolution 1 was written as a reaction against the protesters against the Vietnam War who were getting violent. All Revolution is saying is for the protesters to protest, but not violently, which is still liberal, but a message than other liberal songs. However, for other Beatles songs, they range from being liberal (Why Don't We Do It in the Road?) to be being kind of conservative (Let It Be). Most however, are pretty much neutral. You usually kind Paul McCartney as being more concervative, and Lennon as liberal. [[User:TobyKeet|TobyKeet]] 05:28, 24 November 2010 (EST)

:One problem with the above analysis: Why Don't We Do It In the Road was McCartney's; Lennon was rather famously not involved at all. Personally I've always thought of it as a kind of parody of the free love movement, though apparently that wasn't McCartney's intention. [[User:Ptorquemada|Ptorquemada]] 17:25, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

== In Your Eyes ==

Okay, the song can be considered to be about God, but that alone does not make it conservative. I think Peter Gabriel himself would object to the song's inclusion in this list. --[[User:MakeTomorrow|MakeTomorrow]] 15:23, 18 February 2008 (EST)

: Peter Gabriel can object all he likes. "In Your Eyes" appeals to conservative values, as in "a thousand churches." Do you think we should object when a liberal says something conservative???--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 15:27, 18 February 2008 (EST)
::Religion is not conservative. Fundamentalism is, but not religion. The presence of religion in a song does not make it conservative, even as adherence to religion does not make a person conservative. Look at me, I'm a Christian, but I'm also a communist. Obviously the two are not mutually exclusive. One's personal merely interpersonally-social morals under religion might be more "conservative", in the loosest sense of the term — not conservative, simply somewhat more so — than they would be otherwise; however, that does not automatically make one politically conservative.--[[User:MakeTomorrow|MakeTomorrow]] 15:50, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::: The single best predictor of how conservative someone votes is how often he attends a place of worship of God. Your argument suggesting that you are a counterexample to that correlation means nothing. See point #2 in [[liberal logic]].--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 16:04, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::::That wasn't irrelevant at all. Correlation != causation. --[[User:MakeTomorrow|MakeTomorrow]] 16:08, 18 February 2008 (EST)
::::Sorry, my edit summary should have been "basic statistical interpretation". --[[User:MakeTomorrow|MakeTomorrow]] 16:09, 18 February 2008 (EST)

::::: Why did you cite your counterexample, if it wasn't an example of the logical fallacy #2 in [[liberal logic]]? Do you really think a counterexample disproves causation?

==Land of Confusion==
Does Genesis' ''Land of Confusion'' belong on the list? I remember the music video portraying Ronald Reagan (in puppet form) as inept, and it parodies several conservative leaders, including Margaret Thatcher, et. al. [[User:WesleyS|WesleyS]][[User Talk:WesleyS|Hello!]] 13:58, 5 March 2009 (EST)

: It's liberal lyric of "too many people" is enough reason to bounce it from the list. Thanks for catching this.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:53, 5 March 2009 (EST)

==Should Fortunate Son really be on this list?==

It's vehemently anti-war. Please correct if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's a very conservative belief. [[User:JRobbe|JRobbe]]

:I just looked the lyrics. Pretty confused stuff. I'd agree it's not conservative. Would you like to toss it from the list? Please feel free to do so.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:26, 7 January 2010 (EST)

:Done. [[User:JRobbe|JRobbe]]

== Long Black Train by Josh Turner? ==

To me, this song seems like a good candidate for this list. --[[User:Dfrischknecht|Dfrischknecht]] 07:14, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

== The Decision by Ricky Van Shelton ==

I think this is another good candidate for this list. It's a song about a teenage girl who gives in to peer pressure and gets pregnant and the consequences of that action. --[[User:Dfrischknecht|Dfrischknecht]] 09:02, 22 July 2010 (EDT)

== New Agey ==

I removed the new agey phrase of "the cycle of life, death and rebirth," for the "Lightning Crashes," by Live, but feel free to discuss here.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:23, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

: That wasn't meant to seem "new agey" in the least, but I do understand what you're saying. The song presents a view of life as being cyclical, as the baby is being born an old woman dies, and "The confusion that was hers belongs now to the baby down the hall." I think the lyrics really speak to the significance of life (not just at childbirth), but as a whole. I don't think the song is necessarily about the old woman being reincarnated as the newborn child, but it definitely seems to speak of the circle of life.[[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 15:56, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

:: Perhaps a rewording would work then? How about replacing "the cycle of life, death and rebirth" with "the joy of childbirth in contrast with the end of life"?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 18:59, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

::: I agree that a rewording would work, thank you for working with me. Perhaps we could just say that the song celebrates the significance of life from birth until death, almost in an as one door closes another opens kind of way? [[User:JaneX|JaneX]] 20:00, 22 September 2010 (EDT)

== Song idea ==

"One Man, One Woman" sung by ABBA. Indirectly a tribute to traditional marriage and monogamy.--[[User:TedM|TedM]] 12:14, 12 January 2011 (EST)

: Sounds good by the title, so how about adding it where you think it would be appropriate in the list? Thanks for your insight.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 12:17, 12 January 2011 (EST)

== Takin' Care of Business ==

This song by BTO is on the list for supporting "Hard work ethic", but its not. The refrain is jokingly ironic. "I love to work at nothing all day; and I've been taking care of business"

The body of the song describes a more easy going life just making music rather than waking up early, catching trains for work, etc.

I'm not saying it makes the song liberal, and not sure why its even necessary to classify songs along political lines, but it sure as heck ain't about working hard.
I'd suggest if someone wants to keep it here because its a good song, and if people can only enjoy it because it conforms to their political views, than change the reason to "Mike Huckabee performed the song" [comment by AndrewJackson]

:You left out how the song praises the self-employed, which is a very conservative, hard-working group of people.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:55, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

::Fair enough, but the praise you speak of is "If you ever get annoyed [with, based on earlier lyrics, either your traditional job or the unpleasant commute involved], look at me, I'm self-employed; I love to work at nothing all day." That could be taken as either "I made so much money as an entepreneur that I no longer need to work" or "My official job title is 'Bum'." Neither one of them really expresses admiration for "hard work" in its own right, though the former is certainly a more positive role model than the latter. I do ''like'' the song, but I'm not entirely sanguine about considering it "conservative." [[User:Ptorquemada|Ptorquemada]] 17:36, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

== Adonai My Lord ==

I'm going to delete this song from the list, as it is from the atheistic industrial metal genre. The lyrics reflect a sort of militant Christianity that does not reflect well on the religion as a whole. For example, this group has a song called "Christf---"...obviously they are not conservative. [[User:DennyW66|DennyW66]] 01:14, 23 March 2011 (EDT)

==No U2?==

Surely -- despite the band's liberal leanings -- one of U2's unashamedly Christian songs should make it in. Gloria seems the obvious choice. The chorus, you may remember, goes: "Gloria, in te domine/ Gloria, exultate/ Gloria, Gloria/ Oh Lord, loosen my lips." --[[User:Jdixon|Jdixon]] 12:34, 28 March 2011 (EDT)
:Agreed. Gloria is definitely a good choice. Perhaps "40"; its lyrics are directly lifted from Psalm 40. [[User:DennyW66|DennyW66]] 12:43, 28 March 2011 (EDT)
::You're kidding right? [http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/us-election/u2-honoured-to-be-involved-with-obama-celebrations-14145757.html Conservative indeed..] [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 22:06, 28 March 2011 (EDT)
:::Bono has had a relationship with every President since Clinton; for instance, he worked with Bush on issues relating to Africa and AIDS awareness. The band is very Christian and in no way ashamed of their Christianity. And, rare for rock stars, three of the four members of the band are married family men. They are known for their charitableness and philanthropy, which are of course [[conservative]] traits. Without a doubt, U2 is a conservative, Christian band and they should have representation on this list. [[User:DennyW66|DennyW66]] 22:21, 28 March 2011 (EDT)

::::''Gloria'''s a good choice, please add it if you agree. But U2 became increasingly liberal the more media attention it obtained.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 10:07, 29 March 2011 (EDT)

:::::Maybe it's possible to be Christian and pro-family, and yet left-leaning politically. Anyway, I vote for "Beautiful Day" ... The heart is a bloom / Shoots up through the stony ground / But there's no room / No space to rent in this town

:::::Reminds me of how inhospitable this fallen world can be to the spirits of believers trying to lead a godly life in the midst of a secular world which often seems to be ruled by the devil (John 12:31). Yet God's love is there, like sunshine! --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:53, 29 March 2011 (EDT)

== Brothers in Arms - Dure Straits ==

I would like to suggest Brothers in Arms by Dire Straits. It's about war and having ones "brother's in arms" in support. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 17:32, 4 April 2011 (EDT)
:If there is no argument to it's inclusion I'll add it soon. Let me know your thoughts though...[[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 17:42, 5 April 2011 (EDT)

== YMCA? ==

I'd always heard that the Village People's YMCA was about [[homosexual]] men seducing other men? That doesn't sound very [[conservative]] to me. Is this just a rumor? --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 12:45, 12 May 2011 (EDT)
:This was obviously added as a joke, and no one else seems to have realized it! [[User:TriciaS|TriciaS]] 12:25, 18 June 2011 (EDT)

::Nope - the song is a legitimate tribute to the Young Men's Christian Association.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 13:19, 18 June 2011 (EDT)
:::Right. And Antony came to bury Caesar, not to praise him. "It's fun to stay at the Y-M-C-A. / They have everything that you need to enjoy, / You can hang out with all the boys..." [[User:TriciaS|TriciaS]] 13:32, 18 June 2011 (EDT)
::::It was probably written about more savory activities at the Y but later became identified as a gay anthem. I don't think it's a "conservative song" if it's overwhelmingly associated with homosexuality. [[User:NKeaton|Nate]] 13:43, 18 June 2011 (EDT)

:::::The song is a good faith tribute and attempts to redefine it are not factual.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 15:10, 18 June 2011 (EDT)

:::::: Does anyone have any solid sources one way or the other as to what this song means? I tried some brief googling, but didn't turn up anything at all trustworthy. --[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 22:35, 28 June 2011 (EDT)

::::::: The band leader said it was a legitimate tribute to the Young Men's Christian Association, and we respect original meaning at ''Conservapedia''.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:40, 28 June 2011 (EDT)

::::::::Awesome. Do you have a source for that I can add?--[[User:JustinD|JustinD]] 21:28, 29 June 2011 (EDT)

== Really? Have You Looked Into These Songs? ==

I'd just like to say that I think it's really jacked that you're going around and trying to SAY what these songs mean. For example, Metallica is NOT a conservative band. James Hetfield was a heavy drinker until he went to rehab, Kirk Hammett suffered from drug addiction during his teen years, and if you listen to any other song you hear that they are NOT a conservative band.

Furthermore, Journey is NOT a conservative band. Steve Perry openly voted for Obama in 2008. --[[User:Beanna|Beanna]] 20:04, 24 May 2011 (EDT)

: This isn't a list of conservative bands. It's a list of conservative ''songs''. Even liberals are capable of occasionally singing a conservative song.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 21:19, 24 May 2011 (EDT)

== An idea... ==

I was looking at this list and realised that most of the songs listed here are big hit numbers. I was thinking that it might be interesting to look at whether the more conservative a song is the better it does on the charts. Even though the artist might be liberal it seems there bigger hits are in fact conservative songs! Maybe by charting something like this we could prove that people respond better to the conservative message and perhaps change the minds of some liberal singers. Just an idea. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 20:31, 27 May 2011 (EDT)
:We could add the respective chart ranking to this page and then collate the results by rank and date. Perhaps, like the conservative words, we might even see the same pattern repeated here! [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 20:48, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

::Great idea!--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:01, 27 May 2011 (EDT)
:::It'll be a big project though so it'll be awhile for me to collate the results but I fear that we'll find that the majority of new hits are liberal in nature (particulalry coming from M&M and Usher etc) but I think that is because of the "hollywood" influence. Interestingly artists distanced from "fame" have better messages and ''still'' produce amazing hits. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 23:11, 27 May 2011 (EDT)

== From a youngin' ==

Citizen/Soldier by 3 Doors Down. I don't know about the band themselves, but any song that supports the National Guard should be listed here, in my honest option. If no one minds, I'll add it.

== Wish you were here ==

This is a good list of songs, but as far as I know, ''Wish you were here'' (the title track, along with the entire eponymous album) was not dedicated to a conservative president, but rather to ex-Pink Floyd member Syd Barrett. --[[User:LeonardO|Leo-from-UK]] 19:19, 16 June 2011 (EDT)

: I agree that this needs a citation, given that it is so contrary to the conventional story. I've looked for one, but every indication points to it being inspired by Syd Barrett, not a conservative leader (indeed; one would think, Pink Floyd being made up of Englishmen, that it would be a conservative PM, not President.). --[[User:Monty]]

== Two song suggestions ==

Hallowed Be Thy Name - Iron Maiden

1) Like Welcome to the Family, it's about death row, but not anti-death penalty.

2) Multiple references to an afterlife. "Tears they flow but why am I crying?/After all I am not afraid of dying/Don't I believe that there never is an end?" and later in the song: Mark my words believe my soul lives on/Don't worry now that I have gone/I've gone beyond to seek the truth".

3) The very title of the song is derived from the Lord's Prayer, which is also implied to be the protagonist (in the song)'s final words.

Declaration Day - Iced Earth

The whole thing is about the American war for independence, so it's probably a good choice for the list.

I'll add them for the time being, but if most of you think they don't go, I'll take them down.

: Thanks for suggesting them, but I don't see much that is conservative in your first suggestion other than acceptance of an afterlife (or judgment). That's an important message, but some of the religious references seem to be simply an attempt to give the song gravitas. Perhaps others have some insights about this.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 22:54, 15 July 2011 (EDT)

::Perhaps it's time to branch out and create a category or essay on "Songs of interest to conservatives" or [[Songs that Conservatives like]].

::I like a lot of songs, even if I would be hard pressed to say why they are "conservative songs". Not every song or book or movie I like is [[Conservative]], and I think it's important to be broad-minded enough not to condemn everything that isn't 100% in line with my beliefs and values.

::In fact, I go even further and say that one of the main differences between liberals and conservatives is that liberals are supremely narrow-minded. All the talk about "tolerance" is a one way street with them. They want us to tolerate their radical notions, but they are ready at the drop of a hat to kick us out of their cushy little world any time we offer a different idea.

::You would never hear of a Bible-belt Christian walking up to a famous liberal author and kicking his wine glass over at a picnic, saying, "We don't allow liberals here." (see [[Glen Beck in NYC]]). --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 23:35, 15 July 2011 (EDT)

== I don't think Lola qualifies ==

IIRC, it ends with a complete lack of repentance -- "I'm glad I'm a man, and so is Lola". I don't think that this song qualifies as conservative if it celebrates that which we abhor.

:Our sister project, Wikipedia, says the song "details a romantic encounter between a young man and a transvestite" (hardly a conservative theme). --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 12:09, 25 July 2011 (EDT)

== Overhaul the "Greatest Conservative Songs" ==

I think this is something that needs to happen before this Essay begins to get out of control. GCSs Essay needs to reorganized into some sort of categorical order—be it alphabetical or otherwise—in order to clean up the Essay and to provide clarity to avoid double posting. I will be happy to categorize it alphabetically by either the artist or song. -- [[User:Austenbosten|Austenbosten]] 13:00, 26 July 2011 (EDT)
:I've just rewritten most of the page. Everything is nearly exactly the same, except for a small amount of rephrasing to keep things grammatically correct. I've added peak chart position for every song, but in the interest of making that data comparable, I've limited it to US chart positions. There are some songs (like Brothers In Arms) which charted well in other countries, but didn't chart at all in the US. I eliminated two duplicate entries - Ballad of the Green Berets, and God's Gonna Cut You Down. Enjoy. [[user:CGoodwin|CGoodwin]]
::Good work CGoodwin. Maybe we can have the same revision for [[Essay:Greatest Conservative Movies]]. [[User:KBarnett|KBarnett]] 15:47, 29 July 2011 (EDT)

:::CGoodwin, your tabular format and ranking information is interesting. Well done. But surely ''Amazing Grace'' has been more popular than just about every other song on the list. How should the table reflect that?--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 20:05, 29 July 2011 (EDT)
::::Billboard popularity only measures against how everything else is selling at the same time. If an song sold 100 copies a week for 20 years, it would never crack the charts. The other thing is that there are over 3000 recorded versions of the song. The highest charting individual version I've found is Elvis's, which reached #79. If you want to reflect a broader historical sense of popularity, I'd suggest doing a personal ranking. [[user:CGoodwin|CGoodwin]]

:::::Great Job CGoodwin! Very clean and will definatly help those looking to post songs to check to see if they are or are not already posted. -- [[User:Austenbosten|Austenbosten]] 16:32, 30 July 2011 (EDT)

== Particle man? Really? ==

I think someone must be sabotaging this page. I fail to see how "Particle man" qualifies as an allegory, rather than fun wordplay around a tune not entirely unlike the Spiderman theme song.

:I have to agree on this one, I looked up what people think is the meaning, and seems its more likely an atheist song then a conservative one. [[User:KenN|KenN]]

== No Johnny Cash? ==

Have there really been no suggestions for Johnny Cash songs here? So many of his works discuss the importance of faith, of accepting Jesus, or praise the values of small town country life over the extravagant lifestyles many liberals seem to push for.--[[User:MorrisF|MorrisF]] 12:54, 18 August 2011 (EDT)
::I put in a traditional song and gave the Johnny Cash version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IStlBOX9F4o [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:24, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
:::I think Man in Black should make the list as well.--[[User:JamesWilson|JamesWilson]] 20:43, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
::::You could make a good argument for a good percentage of his work. I added Country Trash, mostly because it's a fun favorite of mine, and I'm sure a bunch more of his would fit too.--[[User:MorrisF|MorrisF]] 00:40, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

==YMCA==
"YMCA", "In the Navy", "San Francisco", and "Macho Man" are NOT conservative songs. They're celebrations of the gay lifestyle. They never did any conservative songs. Have you actually listened to the words
:This point has already been discussed above. Also, please sign your posts. [[User:Jcw|Jcw]] 21:12, 19 August 2011 (EDT)
::Sorry, this is my first post here. Seem to have omitted a heading as well. [[User:Nealstar|Nealstar]] 19:22, 19 August 2011 (MST)

== Tenacious D ==

I would like to put Tribute by Tenacious D forward. I know it's a comedy single, but it's also a very popular song about overcoming Satan and alludes to many other Christian themes such as heaven and hell.[[User:GMilhouse|GMilhouse]] 14:00, 28 August 2011 (BST)

== Deep sixed YMCA by Village People, keep it buried ==

These are not conservative lyrics in the song YMCA: "You can get yourself clean, you can have a good meal, '''You can do whatever you feel'''" [http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/y-m-c-a-lyrics-village-people/33e3d31bddce747748256df20009b2a5] This is not a conservative video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k

I think a lot of the songs listed should be scrapped. This was the most egregious case. For example, how conservative are songs written by long haired guy rockers or homosexual rockers? Shouldn't the authors of the songs have any bearing? [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 20:19, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
:I withhold judgment on how conservative the song is. As Andy said, further up this page '''"This isn't a list of conservative bands. It's a list of conservative songs. Even liberals are capable of occasionally singing a conservative song."''' [[user:CGoodwin|CGoodwin]]
::Andy did not realize the song had the verse: '''"You can do whatever you feel"''' [http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/y-m-c-a-lyrics-village-people/33e3d31bddce747748256df20009b2a5] Definitely not conservative. And please tell me why you think this video is conservative: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k Again, not conservative. Staying buried - no resurrection here folks, move on. [[User:Conservative|Conservative]] 22:16, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
:::So, a young man getting in touch with his emotions, crying because he's down in the world, and being hugged by another sympathetic boy is wrong? Duly noted. [[User:JonG|~ ]][[User_talk:JonG|JonG]][[Special:Contributions/JonG| ~]] 22:17, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
::::Why don't we wait until Andy has commented as he wanted to keep it in and we should defer to him. [[User:MaxFletcher|MaxFletcher]] 22:21, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
:::::Does this mean we should go back and analyze ever music video too? In "Alive" by POD, the person is violating the law by not wearing a seatbealt.
:::::And for a song suggestion, "[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsWr6mHRqgI Hands Held High]" by Linkin Park. [[User:JonG|~ ]][[User_talk:JonG|JonG]][[Special:Contributions/JonG| ~]] 22:44, 31 August 2011 (EDT)
::::::Victor Willis, the ''heterosexual'' ex-lead singer of the Village People and writer of "Y.M.C.A." actually did intend the song to be a legitimate tribute to the Young Men's Christian Association, according to an interview from [http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Entertainment/20070802/village_people_070802/ this article]. He "never intended the homosexual innuendo that many fans read into the song," and really the only thing gay about the video posted by User:Conservative is the fact that some of the people in it actually are gay. Did you know that Victor Willis left the band because he was frustrated with the flamboyancy of some of his gay band-mates and with the band's gay image? --[[User:Toadaron|AaronT]] 19:01, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

:::::::Your comment is misleading and (perhaps deliberately) ignores the writer's well-known liking for double entendre; the reference in the group's name ("Village People") the gay lifestyle of [[Greenwich Village]], and that (as even Wikipedia concedes) the group was "Originally created to target disco's gay audience". [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_People]

:::::::I think you need to find another project to join. You're not helping us provide trustworthy information. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 14:07, 10 September 2011 (EDT)

== ''This Land Is Your Land'' (Woody Guthrie) ==

The removal makes sense. The song seems to be an ode against private property.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 00:19, 10 September 2011 (EDT)

:It's hard to say. Guthrie took the side of the laboring man against the (perceived) indifference of the wealthy, at a time when unions had only recently appeared on the scene to provide [[collective bargaining]] power and relieve the masses from exploitation on the heels of the Industrial Revolution. But the line, "This land was made for you and me" could refer either to the [[abolition of private property]] (as advocated by [[Karl Marx]] and the [[Communists]]), or to God's bountiful blessing upon the settlers of the [[New World]].

:Like all great art, this song contains some ambiguity and requires the listener's interpretation. Like "Consider Yourself" (from [[Oliver!]]), there's a mixture of idealistic brotherhood with hint of the sort of knavery we associate with [[Robin Hood]]. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 13:58, 10 September 2011 (EDT)
::There is an alternate version that's something like "''This land is my land, '''it isn't your land''''' involving guns and shooting trespassers.--[[User:CamilleT|CamilleT]] 14:59, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

:::"An" alternate version? There are dozens of extra verses beyond the 3 we use at Bible camp. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] [[User talk:Ed Poor|Talk]] 22:39, 20 September 2011 (EDT)
::::I had a friend that used to sing it. I thought it relevant to the discussion. But you're right, a catchy tune is a catchy tune--[[User:CamilleT|CamilleT]] 02:43, 21 September 2011 (EDT)

== "Jerusalem" ==

: I don't think that Jerusalem is a conservative song. We were taught at school that it was a call to arms against industrialization and hence is it is also anti-capitalist, also I don't think that any song Billy Bragg has recorded can be called conservative.--14:20, 20 September 2011 (EDT)[[User:Jloveday|Jloveday]]

== You have got to be kidding me ==

Seven Nation Army is not about conservatives and if you knew anything about The White Stripes you would know that they are NOT conservative in the least (I believe Jack White had his wedding conducted by a shaman). Also, in the description of Sympathy for the Devil, I've yet to meet a perfect person, so I would remove that part of the description. Finally, Wouldn't It Be Nice isn't about marriage, it's just about idyllic teenage love, marriage is just incidental. [[User:GiveMeLiberty|GiveMeLiberty]] 09:21, 3 October 2011 (EDT)

:Thanks for noticing the error. It may have been added by a liberal hoaxer. You removed other items such as Fox News contributions to Hussein Obama. I am curious as to why you wouldn't remove it? You've got to be kidding me skit is a little dramatic.--[[User:Jpatt|Jpatt]] 11:15, 3 October 2011 (EDT)
::I removed the items form FNC b/c I felt they were unimportant to the network in the grand scheme of things and didn't belong in the lead. And yeah, You have got to be kidding me is probably a bit dramatic. As for not editing, I though I couldn't edit, as it was unavailable to me when I posted here. [[User:GiveMeLiberty|GiveMeLiberty]] 18:25, 3 October 2011 (EDT)

== The River? ==

Bruce Springsteen's The River doesn't belong here, in my opinion. Springsteen is liberal and pro-union, and the only reference to unions in the song I could find is where the singer got a union card and a wedding coat. Naturally, pre-marital relations are a big part of the song, but the singer never explicitly (or really implicitly) regrets them.--[[User:JamesWilson|James Wilson]] 09:00, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

: Great points. Feel free to delete that song.--[[User:Aschlafly|Andy Schlafly]] 11:18, 22 October 2011 (EDT)

== wish you were here ==
can someone explain how this song belongs here? I mean, yeah, its a great song, but it seems pretty...well it certainly doesn't even get close to implying that it is about wanting a conservative president....the lryics seem to be written about a romantic interest. I would advise removing it from the list
--[[User:AlexanderSz|AlexanderSz]] 17:04, 25 October 2011 (EDT)