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	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Ed_Poor/wikipedia&amp;diff=120450</id>
		<title>User talk:Ed Poor/wikipedia</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=User_talk:Ed_Poor/wikipedia&amp;diff=120450"/>
		<updated>2007-04-21T13:45:08Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* Wikipedia */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;==Wikipedia==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The idea of an encyclopedia largely written by anonymous contributors does not really appeal to me.&lt;br /&gt;
The first wiki I joined was run by software developers, engineers really, and it had a policy of RealNamesPlease.&lt;br /&gt;
Wikipedia's weakness is its insistence that &amp;quot;anyone&amp;quot; be allowed to edit any article any time&lt;br /&gt;
...even without registration or identifying themselves. &lt;br /&gt;
They all want to be Winston Smiths, untraceable.&lt;br /&gt;
I believe that since the Reagan Era we have seen a voluntary separation of sheeps and goats.&lt;br /&gt;
Sheep know their Master's voice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Creation Science merger==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Yes, I was suggesting a merger of the two Creation Science articles. The first one had very little substance and simply linked to the larger.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Biblical_inerrancy&amp;diff=120433</id>
		<title>Biblical inerrancy</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Biblical_inerrancy&amp;diff=120433"/>
		<updated>2007-04-21T13:39:38Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{Christianity}}&lt;br /&gt;
'''Biblical inerrancy''' is the doctrinal position &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.dts.edu/about/doctrinalstatement/&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; that in its original form, the [[Bible]] is without error; &amp;quot;referring to the complete accuracy of Scripture, including the historical and scientific parts.&amp;quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;inerrancy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite book&lt;br /&gt;
|last=Geisler &amp;amp; Nix&lt;br /&gt;
|publisher=Moody Press, Chicago&lt;br /&gt;
|year=1986&lt;br /&gt;
|title=A General Introduction to the Bible&lt;br /&gt;
|isbn= ISBN 0-8024-2916-5&lt;br /&gt;
}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Inerrancy in context==&lt;br /&gt;
Many denominations believe that the [[Bible]] is [[biblical inspiration|inspired]] by God, who through the human authors is the divine author of the Bible. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many who believe in the ''Inspiration'' of scripture teach that it is ''[[biblical infallibility|infallible]].'' Those who subscribe to infallibility believe that what the scriptures say regarding matters of faith and Christian practice are wholly useful and true. Some denominations that teach infallibility hold that the historical or scientific details, which may be irrelevant to matters of faith and Christian practice, may contain errors. Those who believe in inerrancy hold that the scientific, geographic, and historic details and of the scriptural texts in their original manuscripts is completely true and without error. &amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;inerrancy&amp;quot;/&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many religions include texts other than the Bible under various categorizations of inspiration. For example, [[The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]] (Mormons) consider the teachings of [[Joseph Smith, Jr.|Joseph Smith]] and [[The Book of Mormon]] along with the Bible as being the &amp;quot;word of God&amp;quot;, but  recognize translation issues&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See the Eighth and Ninth [[Articles of Faith (Mormonism)|Article of Faith]]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
On the other hand, the Roman Catholic Church considers some teachings of the Church, such as solemn definitions issued by an [[Ecumenical council]] or the [[Pope]], to be infallible in the sense that they are preserved from error. However, the Roman Catholic doctrine of [[Papal Infallibility]] is limited in application and is subject to contingencies. Since the doctrine was formally defined at the [[first Vatican Council]] in 1870, it has been invoked once, in 1950. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5355758.stm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,909531,00.html?iid=chix-sphere&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Basis of belief==&lt;br /&gt;
The theological basis of the belief, in its simplest form, is that as [[God]] is perfect, the [[Bible]], as the word of God, must also be perfect, thus, free from error. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Proponents of biblical inerrancy also teach that God used the &amp;quot;distinctive personalities and literary styles of the writers&amp;quot; of scripture but that God's inspiration guided them to flawlessly project his message through their own language and personality. &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/chicago.htm &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;(See [[biblical inspiration]]). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Infallibility and inerrancy refer to the original texts of the Bible. And while conservative scholars acknowledge the potential for human error in transmission and translation, modern translations are considered to &amp;quot;faithfully represent the originals&amp;quot; &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/creeds/chicago.htm&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In their text on the subject, Geisler &amp;amp; Nix (1986) claim that scriptural inerrancy is established by a number of observations and processes, which include:&lt;br /&gt;
:#  the historical accuracy of the Bible,&lt;br /&gt;
:#  the Bible's claims of its own inerrancy, &lt;br /&gt;
:#  church history and tradition, and &lt;br /&gt;
:#  one's individual experience with God, etc. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Prima Facie&amp;quot; refers to evidence and claims from the Bible itself. &amp;quot;The Witness of the Spirit&amp;quot; is cited as proof to the person to whom God speaks. The &amp;quot;Transforming Ability&amp;quot; of scripture is cited as yet another supernatural proof to an individual. The &amp;quot;Unity of the Scripture&amp;quot; despite its myriad of authors, cultures, and topics, the &amp;quot;Historicity of the Bible&amp;quot; and how the [[Biblical archaeology|archaeological]] record is interpreted to confirm the Bible, the &amp;quot;Testimony of Christ,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;fulfilled prophecies,&amp;quot; &amp;quot;apparent indestructibility&amp;quot; of the scriptures, and the &amp;quot;integrity of its authors&amp;quot; are all commonly taught as ways reliability is established.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;inerrancy&amp;quot;&amp;gt;{{cite book&lt;br /&gt;
|last=Geisler &amp;amp; Nix&lt;br /&gt;
|publisher=Moody Press, Chicago&lt;br /&gt;
|year=1986&lt;br /&gt;
|title=A General Introduction to the Bible&lt;br /&gt;
|isbn= ISBN 0-8024-2916-5&lt;br /&gt;
}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Textual tradition of the New Testament ==&lt;br /&gt;
{{see also|Bible canon|Bible translations}}&lt;br /&gt;
{{Unreferenced|date=January 2007}}&lt;br /&gt;
There are over 5,600 Greek [[manuscript]]s containing all or part of the [[New Testament]]. Most of these manuscripts date to the [[Middle Ages]]. The first complete copy of the New Testament, the [[Codex Sinaiticus]], dates to the [[4th century]]. The earliest fragment of a New Testament book is the [[Rylands Library Papyrus P52]] which dates to the mid [[2nd century]] and is the size of a business card. Very early manuscripts are rare. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
No two manuscripts are identical, except in the smallest fragments &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See Ehrman, ''Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew'', p. 219&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and the many manuscripts which preserve New Testament texts differ among themselves in many respects, with some estimates of 200,000 to 300,000 differences among the various manuscripts&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;See Ehrman, ''Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew'', p. 219&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;. According to Ehrman,&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;Most changes are careless errors that are easily recognized and corrected. Christian scribes often made mistakes simply because they were tired or inattentive or, sometimes, inept. Indeed, the single most common mistake in our manuscripts involves &amp;quot;orthography,&amp;quot; significant for little more than showing that scribes in antiquity could spell no better than most of us can today. In addition, we have numerous manuscripts in which scribes have left out entire words, verses, or even pages of a book, presumably by accident. Sometimes scribes rearranged the words on the page, for example, by leaving out a word and then reinserting it later in the sentence.&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some familiar examples of Gospel passages thought to have been added by later interpolators include the [[Pericope Adulteræ]] (John 7:53 - 8:11), the [[Comma Johanneum]] (1 John 5:7–8), and the longer ending in [[Mark 16]] (Mark 16:9-20). &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For hundreds of years, biblical and textual scholars have examined the manuscripts extensively.  Since the eighteenth century, they have employed the techniques of [[textual criticism]] to reconstruct how the extant manuscripts of the New Testament texts might have descended, and to recover earlier recensions of the texts. Many inerrantists believe that the authorial recensions of New Testament texts are not only accessible, but accurately represented by modern translations{{Fact|date=January 2007}}. Though some inerrantists often prefer the traditional texts used in their churches to modern attempts of reconstruction, arguing that the [[Holy Spirit]] is just as active in the preservation of the scriptures as he was in their creation.  These inerrantists are found particularly in non-Protestant churches, but also a few Protestant groups hold such views.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Major religious views on the Bible==&lt;br /&gt;
===Roman Catholics===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Roman Catholic Church]] teaching holds that the resurrection of [[Jesus]] affirms his divinity, and Jesus in turn appointed the [[Pope]], and the body of [[Bishop]]s led by the Pope, guided by the [[Holy Spirit]], to offer guidance on questions of faith and morals. Catholics believe this guidance has allowed the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles, in [[Sacred Tradition]] and Sacred Scripture (the Bible), to be preserved and passed down to the present day.  Speaking from the claimed authority granted to him by Christ, Pope [[Pius XII]], in his encyclical [[Divino Afflante Spiritu]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite journal&lt;br /&gt;
|name=Pius XII, Pope&lt;br /&gt;
|title=[http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_30091943_divino-afflante-spiritu_en.html Divino Afflante Spiritu]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, denounced those who held that the inerrancy was restricted to matters of faith and morals:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;blockquote&amp;gt;The sacred Council of Trent ordained by solemn decree that &amp;quot;the entire books with all their parts, as they have been [[Wiktionary:wont|wont]] to be read in the Catholic Church and are contained in the old vulgate Latin edition, are to be held sacred and canonical.&amp;quot; [...] When, subsequently, some Catholic writers, in spite of this solemn definition of Catholic doctrine, by which such divine authority is claimed for the &amp;quot;entire books with all their parts&amp;quot; as to secure freedom from any error whatsoever, ventured to restrict the truth of Sacred Scripture solely to matters of faith and morals, and to regard other matters, whether in the domain of physical science or history, as &amp;quot;[[Wiktionary:obiter dictum|obiter dicta]]&amp;quot; and - as they contended - in no wise connected with faith, Our Predecessor of immortal memory, Leo XIII in the Encyclical Letter [[Providentissimus Deus]]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite journal&lt;br /&gt;
|name=Leo XIII, Pope&lt;br /&gt;
|title=[http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18111893_providentissimus-deus_en.html Providentissimus Deus]&lt;br /&gt;
}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;, [...] justly and rightly condemned these errors.  [http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/most/getchap.cfm?WorkNum=216&amp;amp;ChapNum=7]&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite book&lt;br /&gt;
|name=Most, William G.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
|title=Free From All Error: Authorship, Inerrancy, Historicity of Scripture, Church Teaching, and Modern Scripture Scholars&lt;br /&gt;
|isbn=&amp;quot;0913382515&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
| chap=6&lt;br /&gt;
}}&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/blockquote&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Roman Catholic position on the Bible is further clarified in [[Dei Verbum]], one of the principal documents of the [[Second Vatican Council]] ([http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm Second Vatican Council], ''[http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html Dei Verbum]'', n. 11 &amp;amp; 12) This document states the Catholic belief that all scripture is sacred and reliable because the biblical authors were inspired by God. However, the human dimension of the Bible is also acknowledged as well as the importance of proper interpretation. Careful attention must be paid to the actual meaning intended by the authors, in order to render a correct interpretation. Genre, modes of expression, historical circumstances, poetic liberty, and church tradition are all factors that must be considered by Catholics when examining scripture. The Roman Catholic Church holds that the authority to declare correct interpretation rests ultimately with the church through its [[magisterium]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The Bishops' Conferences of England and Wales has recently published a teaching document called &amp;quot;The Gift of Scripture&amp;quot; instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true. According to this document, the Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, but it continues to say that: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.” As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing. Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb. [http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Eastern Orthodox Christians===&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Eastern Orthodox Church]] also believes in unwritten tradition and the written scriptures, but it has rarely sought to clarify the relationship between them. Contemporary Eastern Orthodox theologians debate whether these are separate deposits of knowledge or different ways of understanding a single dogmatic reality. Father [[Georges Florovsky]], for example, asserted that tradition is no more than &amp;quot;Scripture rightly understood.&amp;quot; Because the Eastern Orthodox Church emphasizes the authority of councils, which belong to all the bishops, it stresses the canonical uses more than inspiration of scripture. Unlike the Roman Catholic Church, most Eastern Orthodox theologians also recognize that a final seal of authenticity or ecumenicity is that the body of the church receives the councils. Since the acceptance of the Septuagint and New Testament by leading regional bishops of the second century was based on those texts' faithfulness to the same apostolic teaching to which the church traditions are also faithful. The Eastern Orthodox Church emphasizes that the scriptures can only be understood according to a normative rule of faith (the [[Nicene Creed|Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed]], in short) and way of life that has continued from Christ and the Apostles to this day, and beyond.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Protestant views===&lt;br /&gt;
==== The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy ====&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In [[1978]] a large gathering of American [[Protestant]] churches, including representatives of the Conservative, [[Reformed Church in America|Reformed]] and [[Presbyterian]], [[Lutheran]], and [[Baptist]] denominations, adopted the [[Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy]]. The Chicago Statement does not necessarily imply that any particular traditional interpretation of the Bible is without error. Instead, it gives primacy to seeking the intention of the author of each text, and commits itself to receiving the statement as fact depending on whether it can be determined or assumed that the author meant to communicate a statement of fact.  Of course, knowing the intent of the original authors is impossible.  Acknowledging that there are many kinds of literature in the Bible besides statements of fact, the Statement nevertheless reasserts the authenticity of the Bible ''in toto'' as the word of God. Advocates of the Chicago Statement are worried that accepting one error in the Bible leads one down a slippery slope that ends in rejecting that the Bible has any value greater than some other book.  ''&amp;quot;The authority of Scripture is inescapably impaired if this total divine inerrancy is in any way limited or disregarded, or made relative to a view of truth contrary to the Bible's own; and such lapses bring serious loss to both the individual and the church.&amp;quot;''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Evangelicals====&lt;br /&gt;
[[Evangelicalism|Evangelical]] churches, unlike Eastern and Roman churches, reject that there is an infallible authoritative tradition that is held over, or on a par with, scripture.  Some Evangelicals hold that the Bible confirms its own authority, pointing out that [[Jesus]] frequently quotes scripture as his final &amp;quot;court of appeal&amp;quot;.  (See for example Matthew 4:4,6 &amp;amp; 10; 21:13; Mark 9:12) The reasoning is that if the Bible is assumed to be inerrant and the only form of God's word, then that implies that the Bible is fully reliable.  Tradition on the other hand is seen to be subject to human memory, and may have many versions of the same events/truths, some of which may be contradictory.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====King James Only====&lt;br /&gt;
Another belief ([[King James Only]]) holds that the translators of the [[King James Version]] were guided by God, and that the KJV thus is to be taken as authoritative.  However, those who hold this opinion do not extend it to the KJV translations of the [[Biblical apocrypha|Apocryphal]] books, which were produced along with the rest of the Authorized Version. Modern translations differ from the KJV on numerous points, sometimes resulting from access to different early texts. Upholders of the KJV would nevertheless hold that the [[Protestant]] canon of KJV is itself an inspired text and therefore remains authoritative.  The [[King James Only]] movement asserts that the KJV is the ''sole'' [[English language|English]] translation free from error.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Textus Receptus (non-English speaking cultures)====&lt;br /&gt;
Similar to the King James Only view is the view that [[King_James_Only#Similar_Movements_in_Non-English_Speaking_Countries|translations must be derived from]] the [[Textus Receptus]] in order to be considered inerrant.  As the King James Version is an English translation, this leaves speakers of other languages in a difficult position, hence the belief in the Textus Receptus as the inerrant source text for translations to modern languages.  For example, in Spanish-speaking cultures the commonly accepted &amp;quot;KJV-equivalent&amp;quot; is the [[Reina-Valera]] 1909 revision (with different groups accepting in addition to the 1909 or in its place the revisions of 1862 or 1960).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Wesleyan and Methodist view of scripture====&lt;br /&gt;
The [[John Wesley|Wesleyan]] and [[Methodist]] Christian tradition affirms that the Bible is authoritative on matters concerning faith and practice. The [[United Methodist Church]] does not use the word &amp;quot;inerrant&amp;quot; to describe the Bible, but it does believe that the Bible is God's Word, and as such, is the primary authority for faith and practice.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
What is of central importance for the Wesleyan Christian tradition is the Bible as a tool which God uses to promote salvation.  The Bible does not itself effect salvation; God initiates salvation and proper creaturely responses consummate salvation.  One may be in danger of [[bibliolatry]] if one claims that the Bible secures salvation.  &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
With this focus on salvation, Wesleyans need not make claims about inerrancy in the original autographs, subsequent translations, or particular interpretations.  And yet Wesleyans affirm the Bible to be principally authoritative for faith and practice, and the Bible is often a principle means for God to promote salvation in the world.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
====Lutheran views====&lt;br /&gt;
The [[Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod]], the [[Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod]], the [[Lutheran Church - Canada]], the [[Evangelical Lutheran Synod]] and many other smaller Lutheran bodies hold to Scriptural inerrancy, though for the most part Lutherans do not consider themselves to be &amp;quot;fundamentalists&amp;quot;.  The larger [[Evangelical Lutheran Church in America]] and [[Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada]] do not officially hold to biblical inerrancy, though there are those within the ELCA and ELCIC who are Inerrantists.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Calvin's view of Scripture]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Biblical hermeneutics]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Biblical literalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Bibliolatry]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Internal consistency and the Bible]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Notes==&lt;br /&gt;
{{reflist}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Gleason Archer]], 2001. ''New Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties''. ISBN 0-310-24146-4&lt;br /&gt;
* Kathleen C. Boone: ''The Bible Tells Them So: The Discourse of Protestant Fundamentalism'', State Univ of New York Press 1989, ISBN 0-88706-895-2 &lt;br /&gt;
*Ethelbert W.Bullinger, ''Figures of Speech Used in the Bible'' Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Book House, 1970.&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Bart D. Ehrman]], 2003. ''Lost Christianities: The Battles for Scripture and the Faiths We Never Knew''. Oxford University Press, Inc. ISBN 0-19-518249-9&lt;br /&gt;
*[[Norman Geisler]], ed. (1980). ''Inerrancy''. ISBN 0-310-39281-0.&lt;br /&gt;
*Norman Geisler and Thomas Howe, (1999) ''When Critics Ask: A Popular Handbook on Bible Difficulties.''&lt;br /&gt;
*Norman Geisler and William E. Nix., ''A General Introduction to the Bible'', Moody Publishers; Rev&amp;amp;Expndd edition (August 1986), ISBN 0-8024-2916-5 &lt;br /&gt;
*Walter C. Kaiser, Peter H. Davids, [[F. F. Bruce]], Manfred T. Brauch. (1996). ''Hard Sayings of the Bible'' &lt;br /&gt;
*[[Charles Caldwell Ryrie]] (1981). ''What you should know about inerrancy''. ISBN 0-8024-8785-8  &lt;br /&gt;
*[[R. C. Sproul|Sproul, R. C.]]. ''Hath God Said?'' ([https://ecom.ligonier.org/ecom/product.asp?idProduct=HAT01VC video series]).&lt;br /&gt;
*[[John Walvoord]] (1990). ''What We Believe: Understanding and Applying the Basics of Christian Life''. ISBN 0-929239-31-8&lt;br /&gt;
*[[B. B. Warfield|Warfield, B. B.]] (1977 reprint). ''Inspiration and Authority of Bible'', with a lengthy introductory essay by [[Cornelius Van Til]]. ISBN 0-8010-9586-7.&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html Dei Verbum] Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation (1965)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
===Supportive links===&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.wesleyan.org/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=5B7EE5C4A5BA407D93A6AF61EF94B471&amp;amp;nm=Spiritual+Helps&amp;amp;type=Publishing&amp;amp;mod=Publications%3A%3AArticle&amp;amp;mid=8F3A7027421841978F18BE895F87F791&amp;amp;tier=4&amp;amp;id=5464710074024B8BA82C3E55BD140EF8 Wesleyan Church beliefs of the Holy Bible]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/bible.html Monergism.com links] to articles on scripture from a conservative Calvinist perspective&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://homepage.mac.com/shanerosenthal/reformationink/bbwauthority.htm The Authority and Inspiration of the Scriptures] by [[B. B. Warfield]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.apologetics.com/default.jsp?bodycontent=/articles/historical_apologetics/habermas-nt.html Why I believe the NT is historically reliable] by [[Gary Habermas]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.garyhabermas.com/articles/crj_recentperspectives/crj_recentperspectives.htm Recent Perspectives on the Reliability of the Gospels] by Gary R. Habermas&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1992/4/4inerr92.html Why I Believe in the Inerrancy of the Scriptures] by Dave Miller (see Farrell Till below)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Critical links===&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Bible_Authoritative.htm How Can The Bible Be Authoritative?] by [[Tom Wright (theologian)|N.T. Wright]]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.quodlibet.net/perry-inerrancy.shtml Dissolving the Inerrancy Debate (a postmodern view)]&lt;br /&gt;
*[http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1992/4/4evide92.html Bible Inerrancy: A Belief Without Evidence] [[Farrell Till]]'s rebuttal to Dave Miller's defense (see above)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Christian fundamentalism]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Fundamentalistische Exegese]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[fr:Inerrance biblique]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[id:Ineransi]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[it:Inerranza della Bibbia]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[pt:Inerrância bíblica]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Creation_science&amp;diff=120422</id>
		<title>Creation science</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Creation_science&amp;diff=120422"/>
		<updated>2007-04-21T13:34:52Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;Advocates of '''Creation science''' lay claim to the methods and empirical practices of science, that is, the [[scientific method]], to assert that scientific evidence supports a [[biblical literalism|literal]] interpretation of the Biblical account of creation (see [[Creation according to Genesis]]).  Its advocates, known as creation scientists, primarily include [[Young Earth]] [[Creationist]]s, especially members of [[Evangelicalism|evangelical Christian denominations]] that subscribe to the doctrine of [[biblical inerrancy]]; however, there are examples of [[Islamic creationism|Islamic supporters of creation science]] as well.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA111.html TalkOrigins Index to Creationist Claims Claim CA111] talkorigins.org edited by Mark Isaak. 2005.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/4550_antievolutionism_and_creationi_2_13_2001.asp Antievolutionism and Creationism in the United States]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2006/XX/961_creationism_news_from_around_t_11_2_2006.asp Creationism news from around the world]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The worldwide scientific community views creation science as a [[pseudoscience]] that does not conform to the [[scientific method]]: creation science cannot propose an underlying mechanism of creation which can be falsified or investigated by scientific means, as stated by proponents themselves.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Duane Gish, ''Evolution? The Fossils Say No!'', &amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;We do not know how the Creator created, [or] what processes He used, for He used processes which are not now operating anywhere in the natural universe. This is why we refer to creation as special creation. We cannot discover by scientific investigation anything about the creative processes used by the Creator.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation scientists reject the theory of [[common descent]] of all life via evolution (see [[Evolution as theory and fact]]).&lt;br /&gt;
They claim that [[evolution]] is itself [[pseudoscience|pseudoscientific]] &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Our theory of evolution has become, as Popper described, one which cannot be refuted by any possible observations. Every conceivable observation can be fitted into it. It is thus outside of 'empirical science' but not necessarily false. No one can think of ways to test it. Ideas, either without basis or based upon a few laboratory experiments carried out in extremely simplified systems, have attained currency far beyond their validity. They have become part of an evolutionary dogma accepted by most of us as part of our training.&amp;quot; [http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt79.html Roman theological forum] Positivism: the father of naturalism, Clement Butel, 1999&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
and argue in favor of [[creation biology]]. They may reject scientific estimates of the [[age of the universe]], arguing for creationist cosmologies based on an age of less than ten thousand years. Creation science also regards the usual scientific theories of [[geology]] as being strongly tied to [[Uniformitarianism (science)|uniformitarianism]], the concept that that processes occurring in the present have operated in the past and will continue in the future. Nevertheless, modern geology describes volcanic episodes, gross climate changes, and meteoritic impacts large enough to have caused [[extinctions]] as part of the regular cycle of the earth.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/uniformitarian.htm Uniformitarianism]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Standard explanations of many phenomena through gradual processes, such as mountain building by colliding plates, are  discarded by Creation scientists in favor of [[catastrophism]] which postulates that at intervals in the earth’s history cataclysms destroyed (nearly) all living things and formed geological features such as mountains and valleys.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.bartleby.com/65/ca/catastro.html Catastrophism, The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.  2001 - 05]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; They infer the effects of [[flood geology]] based on the the presumed historical accuracy of the Biblical deluge account in [[Genesis]]. Creation scientists by and large do no laboratory or field research; rather they re-interpret existing laboratory and field data. Creation science literature generally consists of compilations of alleged weaknesses in current models of evolution and geology.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.creationism.org/heinze/Universe.htm &amp;quot;How The Universe Began&amp;quot;]  By Thomas F. Heinze. Revised May 2001. Copyright 2002.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[United States National Academy of Sciences]] has stated:&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;the [[theory of evolution]] has become the central unifying concept of biology and is a critical component of many related scientific disciplines . . . [whereas] the claims of creation science lack empirical support and cannot be meaningfully tested. These observations lead to two fundamental conclusions: the teaching of [[evolution]] should be an integral part of science instruction, and creation science is in fact not science and should not be presented as such in science classes.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://orsted.nap.edu/openbook/0309064066/html/2.html Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences, Second Edition] pp. 1-2&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and &lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;Creationism, intelligent design, and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life or of species are not science because they are not testable by the methods of science.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; National Academy of Sciences, 1999 [http://www.nap.edu/books/0309064066/html/25.html Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences, Second Edition] pg 25&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some advocates have spent many years arguing for the inclusion of creation science in the [[science curriculum]] of U.S. public schools; however, in 1987 in the case [[Edwards v. Aguillard]] the [[Supreme Court of the United States]] held that a requirement that public schools teach creation science alongside evolution as an alternative theory violated the [[Establishment Clause]] of the [[First Amendment to the United States Constitution]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&amp;amp;court=US&amp;amp;vol=482&amp;amp;page=578 EDWARDS v. AGUILLARD, 482 U.S. 578 (1987)]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; (See also [[Intelligent Design movement]].)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==History and organization==&lt;br /&gt;
The [[creation theology|doctrine of creation]] is a fundamental and ancient precept of many [[faith]]s including [[Christianity]]. The vast majority of Christian [[Church Fathers]] and [[Reformers]] accepted a literal interpretation of Genesis, and even the few who did not, such as [[Origen]] and [[Augustine of Hippo|Augustine]], defended an earth that was on the order of thousands of years old. An understanding of Genesis, literal or otherwise, requires the harmonisation of the two creation stories, Genesis 1:1-2:3 and Genesis 2:4-25.   Some interpretation is required to resolve inconsistencies in the text.[http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2194][http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/creationint.html]. A literal interpretation of Genesis cannot be considered to be the Christian consensus. According to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, world leader of Anglicans: &amp;quot;[for] most of the history of Christianity there's been an awareness that a belief that everything depends on the creative act of God, is quite compatible with a degree of uncertainty or latitude about how precisely that unfolds in creative time. &amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/sermons_speeches/0603221a.htm '''Archbishop of Canterbury''', Transcript of interview with the Guardian] &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the [[1830s]], [[scientific evidence]] contrary to the doctrine of &amp;quot;[[special creation]]&amp;quot; had begun to accumulate. In [[1859]] [[Charles Darwin]] published ''[[On the Origin of Species]]'' and by the [[1900s]] [[natural selection]] and descent with modification was widely accepted as the unifying principle of biological development. Opposition to this [[scientific consensus]] became codified as the [[creationism|creationist]] movement.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[history of creationism|history]] of Creation Science begins with writers who looked to studying geology within the Biblical timeframe, detailed for instance in the [[Ussher chronology]]. Such a timeframe directly contradicted that provided by geologists for the [[age of the Earth]]. Some consider the first serious Creation Science writer to be Canadian [[George McCready Price]] who wrote several books, most notably ''The New Geology'', which attempted to contradict mainstream geological understandings of timeframes and [[geologic history]]. Creation Science (dubbed '''Scientific Creationism''' at the time) emerged as an organized movement during the [[1960s]] following the publication of ''[[The Genesis Flood]]'' by [[Henry M. Morris]] and [[John C. Whitcomb]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation science was defined in Arkansas Act 590 as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Creation science means the scientific evidences for creation and inferences from those evidences. Creation science includes the scientific evidences and related inferences that indicate:&lt;br /&gt;
:#Sudden creation of the universe, energy and life from nothing. &lt;br /&gt;
:#The insufficiency of mutation and natural selection in bringing about development of all living kinds from a single organism. &lt;br /&gt;
:#Changes only with fixed limits of originally created kinds of plants and animals. &lt;br /&gt;
:#Separate ancestry for man and apes. &lt;br /&gt;
:#Explanation of the earth's geology by catastrophism, including the occurrence of worldwide flood. &lt;br /&gt;
:#A relatively recent inception of the earth and living kinds.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subsequently, advocates of Creation Science have expanded their critiques into [[biology]] and [[physical cosmology|cosmology]], and sought to have creation science taught in United States public schools. However, these efforts were halted by the Supreme Court's application of the [[First Amendment to the United States Constitution|First amendment]]'s [[Establishment Clause]] in [[Edwards v. Aguillard]], 1987.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the Edwards v. Aguillard decision, some adherents lent support to the teaching of [[intelligent design]] under its [[Intelligent design movement#Origin of the movement|'big tent' strategy]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;The promise of the big tent of ID is to provide a setting where Christians (and others) may disagree amicably, and fruitfully, about how best to understand the natural world, as well as Scripture.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://www.equip.org/free/DL303.pdf Life in the big tent: traditional creationism and the intelligent design community]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The allied ''[[Teach the Controversy]]'' campaign claims that intelligent design is on par with the scientific theory of evolution and therefore that both should be taught in schools as equally worthy of consideration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation Science is distinguished from [[Neo-Creationism]], which is largely associated with the [[intelligent design movement]], in that most advocates of Creation Science accept scripture as a foundation for their claims with their primary goal being to the validation of  scripture as historical fact through the use of science. Neo-Creationism eschews references to scripture altogether from its [[polemics]] and stated goals as a matter of principle (see [[Wedge strategy]]). By so doing, intelligent design proponents hope to succeed where creation science has failed in securing a place in public school science curriculum. Carefully avoiding any reference to the identity of the [[intelligent designer]] as God in their public arguments, intelligent design proponents believe that their movement will return a version of creationism back to science classrooms without violating the [[First Amendment]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;johnson_bible_out&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;quot;...the first thing that has to be done is to get the Bible out of the discussion. ...This is not to say that the biblical issues are unimportant; the point is rather that the time to address them will be after we have separated materialist prejudice from scientific fact.&amp;quot; Phillip Johnson. &amp;quot;The Wedge&amp;quot;, Touchstone: A Journal of Mere Christianity. July/August 1999.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=debate_won&amp;gt;[http://www.coralridge.org/specialdocs/evolutiondebate.asp the Evolution Debate Can Be Won.] Phillip Johnson. Truths that Transform.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; However, this effort was struck down as a violation of the Establishment Clause in [[Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District]]. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Today, Creation Science as an organized movement is primarily centered within the [[United States]], although Creation Science organizations are known in other countries, most notably [[Answers in Genesis]] which was founded in Australia. Proponents are found primarily among various denominations of [[Christianity]] described as [[evangelicalism|evangelical]], conservative, or [[fundamentalist Christianity|fundamentalist]]. While creationist movements also exist in [[Islam]], and [[Judaism]], these movements do not use the phrase ''creation science'' to describe their beliefs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Issues==&lt;br /&gt;
Creation Science has its roots in the ongoing effort by [[Young Earth creationism|young-earth creationists]] to dispute [[science|modern science]]'s description of [[natural history]] (particularly biological evolution, but also [[geology]] and [[physical cosmology]]) while attempting to offer an alternative explanation of observable phenomena compatible with the Biblical account.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The proponents of Creation Science often argue that many observable phenomena fit more easily into the Biblical account than with the naturalistic worldview.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;We can then apply the scientific method to test our predictions and see which set fits better with what we actually observe.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://www.originsresource.org/creationsci.htm How can creation have anything to do with science?]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;By this definition it would not be scientific to even consider any of the evidence that God created.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://www.creationism.org/heinze/Universe.htm How The Universe Began]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The vast majority of mainstream scientists argue that this premise runs counter to the core principles of coherent [[scientific method]]ology and that literal interpretations of the Bible which demand a global flood, a young Earth, or special creation of [[created kinds]] can be shown to be unsupported by [[scientific evidence]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html nap.edu]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Creation science proponents admit  that their oppositional stance is based on religion. [[Duane Gish]], a prominent creation science proponent, has argued that &amp;quot;We cannot discover by scientific investigation anything about the creative processes used by the Creator.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://people.hofstra.edu/faculty/robert_l_hall/ISB1F01/ScienceInCreationScience.html people.hofstra.edu]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Metaphysical assumptions===&lt;br /&gt;
Creation Science makes the ''a priori'' metaphysical assumption that the Creator exists. Christian Creation Science holds that the description of Creation is given in the Bible and that empirical scientific evidence corresponds with that description.  Creationists in general see a doctrinaire commitment to exclude the Supreme Being and miracles as a motivating factor in [[Darwinism]], a term used in a derogatory fashion to refer to [[evolutionary biology]]. Critics consider Creation Science to be religious, rather than scientific, because it stems from [[faith]] in the Bible, rather than by the application of the scientific method.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mclean-v-arkansas.html talkorigins.org] &amp;amp;ndash; mclean-v-arkansas&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The [[United States National Academy of Sciences]] (NAS), has noted, &amp;quot;Religious opposition to evolution propels antievolutionism. Although antievolutionists pay lip service to supposed scientific problems with evolution, what motivates them to battle its teaching is apprehension over the implications of evolution for religion.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/4550_antievolutionism_and_creationi_2_13_2001.asp National Center for Science Education]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation science advocates argue that mainstream [[scientific theories]] of the origins of the universe, the earth, and life are rooted in ''a priori'' presumptions of [[Methodology|methodological]] [[naturalism (philosophy)|naturalism]] and [[Uniformitarianism (science)|uniformitarianism]], each of which is disputed. In some areas of science, for example [[chemistry]], [[meteorology]] or [[medicine]], the default assumptions of a naturalistic universe and uniformitarianism are not considered problematic to creation science proponents. As a matter of principle, creation science advocates single out only those scientific theories that they have determined are most in conflict with their beliefs, and it is against those theories that they concentrate their efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Religious criticism===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Fideism|Fideists]] criticize creation science on the grounds either that religious faith alone should be a sufficient basis for belief in the truth of Creation, or that efforts to prove the Genesis account of creation on scientific grounds are inherently futile as reason is subordinate to faith and cannot thus be used to prove it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some [[Christian theology|Christian theologies]], including [[Liberal Christianity]], consider the [[Creation according to Genesis|Genesis narrative]] to be a [[poetry|poetic]] and [[allegory|allegorical]] work rather than a literal history, and many Christian churches &amp;amp;ndash; including the [[Roman Catholic]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/8712_message_from_the_pope_1996_1_3_2001.asp ncseweb.org]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Anglican]] and the more liberal denominations of the [[Lutheran]], [[Methodist]], [[Congregational church|Congregationalist]] and [[Presbyterian]] faiths &amp;amp;ndash; have either rejected creation science outright or are ambivalent to it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Many{{Fact|date=February 2007}} churches reject creation science in favour of some version of [[Theistic evolution]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Scientific criticism===&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[United States National Academy of Sciences]] states that ''&amp;quot;creation science is in fact [[pseudoscience|not science]] and should not be presented as such.&amp;quot;''&amp;lt;ref name = &amp;quot;NAS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html National Academy of Sciences]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and that &amp;quot;the claims of creation science lack empirical support and cannot be meaningfully tested.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name = &amp;quot;NAS&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; According to [[Skeptic Magazine]], the &amp;quot;''creation 'science' movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics''&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;''seriously misrepresents the theory of evolution''.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;!--Joyce Arthur, Published in the Skeptic, magazine of the Skeptic Society, Vol. 4, No. 4, 1996, pp. 88-93--&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/gish.html Creationism: Bad Science or Immoral Pseudoscience?]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For a [[theory]] to qualify as [[Scientific method|scientific]] it must be:&lt;br /&gt;
* consistent (internally and externally)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Parsimony|parsimonious]] (sparing in proposed entities or explanations)&lt;br /&gt;
* useful (describing and explaining observed phenomena)&lt;br /&gt;
* empirically testable and [[Falsifiability|falsifiable]]&lt;br /&gt;
* based upon controlled, repeatable experiments&lt;br /&gt;
* correctable and dynamic (changing to fit with newly discovered data)&lt;br /&gt;
* progressive (achieving all that previous theories have and more)&lt;br /&gt;
* tentative (admitting that it might not be correct rather than asserting certainty)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For any [[hypothesis]] or [[conjecture]] to be considered scientific, it must meet at least most, but ideally all, of the above criteria. The fewer which are matched, the less scientific it is. If it meets two or fewer of these criteria, it cannot be treated as scientific in any useful sense of the word.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Scientists have considered the hypotheses proposed by creation science and have rejected them because of a lack of evidence. Furthermore, the claims of creation science do not refer to natural causes and cannot be subject to meaningful tests, so they do not qualify as scientific hypotheses. In 1987 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that creationism is religion, not science, and cannot be advocated in public school classrooms.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;The legislative history demonstrates that the term &amp;quot;creation science,&amp;quot; as contemplated by the state legislature, embraces this religious teaching.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0482_0578_ZS.html Edwards v. Aguillard]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Most major religious groups have concluded that the concept of evolution is not at odds with their descriptions of creation and human origins.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;Indeed, many scientists are deeply religious. But science and religion occupy two separate realms of human experience. Demanding that they be combined detracts from the glory of each.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://newton.nap.edu/html/creationism/preface.html Science and creationism]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A summary of the objections to creation science by mainstream scientists follows:&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science is not falsifiable'' : [[Theism]] is not falsifiable, since the existence of God is typically asserted without sufficient conditions to allow a falsifying observation. If God is a transcendental being, beyond the realm of the observable, no claim about his existence can be supported or undermined by observation. Thus, creationism, the argument from design and other arguments for the existence of God are ''[[a posteriori]]'' arguments. (See also the section on [[#Creation science and falsifiability|falsifiability]] below.)&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science violates the principle of parsimony'' : Creationism fails to pass [[Occam's razor]]. Many explanations offered by creation science are more complex than alternative explanations. [[Parsimony]] favours explanations that make the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science is not empirically testable'' : Creationism posits the [[supernatural]] which by definition is beyond empirical natural testing, and thus conflicts with the practical use of [[naturalism (Philosophy)|methodological naturalism]] inherent in science. &lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science is not based upon controlled, repeatable experiments'' : That creationism is not based upon controlled, repeatable experiments stems not from the theory itself, but from the phenomena that it tries to explain.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science is not correctable, dynamic, tentative or progressive'' : Creationism professes to adhere to an &amp;quot;absolute Truth&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;the word of God&amp;quot;, instead of a provisional assessment of data which can change when new information is discovered. The idea of the progressive growth of scientific ideas is required to explain previous data and any previously unexplainable data as well as any future data. It is often given as a justification for the naturalistic basis of science. In any practical sense of the concept, creation science is not progressive: it does not explain or expand upon what went before it and is not consistent with established ancillary theories.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation science's lack of adherence to the standards of the [[scientific method]] mean that it (and specifically creation science) cannot be said to be scientific in the way that the term &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; is currently defined by the leading world science organisations.&lt;br /&gt;
Creation science has been described as an [[oxymoron]] by Stephen Jay Gould.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/creation.htm Article] by [[Stephen Jay Gould]] in the [[Skeptical Inquirer]] (Vol. XI, no. 2 / Winter 1986-87)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
For more discussion, see [[creation-evolution controversy]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Historical, philosophical, and sociological criticism===&lt;br /&gt;
Historically, the debate of whether creationism is compatible with science can be traced back to [[1874]], the year science historian [[John William Draper]] published his ''History of the Conflict between Religion and Science''. In it Draper portrayed the entire history of scientific development as a war against religion. This presentation of history was propagated further by followers such as [[Andrew Dickson White]] in his essay ''A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom''. Their conclusions, however, have been disputed.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.bede.org.uk/university.htm Medieval Science, the Church and Universities]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some opponents consider creation science to be an [[ideology|ideologically]] and [[politics|politically]] motivated [[propaganda]] tool, with [[cult]]-like features, to promote the creationist agenda in society. They allege that the term &amp;quot;creation science&amp;quot; was chosen to purposely blur the distinction between [[science and religion]], particularly in countries that are religiously-neutral by law (such as the United States), in an attempt to gain official government sanction and recognition of specific religious tenets above those of other faiths. In the United States, the principal focus of Creation Science advocates is on the government-supported [[Public school|public school system]]s, which are prohibited by the [[Establishment Clause]] from promoting specific religions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Areas of study==&lt;br /&gt;
Subjects within creation science can be split into three main categories, each covering a different area of origins research: [[creation biology]], [[flood geology]], and [[creationist cosmologies]]. These subjects correspond to the mainstream scientific disciplines of [[evolutionary biology]], [[earth sciences]] and [[cosmology]] respectively. Other topics include [[radiohalo]]es and [[planetology]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Creation biology===&lt;br /&gt;
{{main|Creation biology}}&lt;br /&gt;
Creation biology centers around an idea derived from Genesis that states that life was created by God in a finite number of &amp;quot;[[created kind]]s&amp;quot; rather than through biological evolution. Creationists who involve themselves in this endeavor believe that any observable [[speciation]] took place through inbreeding, deleterious mutations and other genetic mechanisms designed for rapid &amp;quot;downhill rearrangements&amp;quot; during an alleged [[population bottleneck]] after the [[great flood]] of [[Noah's ark]], which they claim was an actual historical event that happened in a manner consistent with its description in the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
  | last = Sarfati&lt;br /&gt;
  | first = J&lt;br /&gt;
  | authorlink = Jonathon Sarfati&lt;br /&gt;
  | coauthors =&lt;br /&gt;
  | title = How did all the animals fit on Noah's Ark?&lt;br /&gt;
  | work = Creation Vol 19 Issue 2.&lt;br /&gt;
  | publisher =&lt;br /&gt;
  | date = 1997&lt;br /&gt;
  | url = http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp&lt;br /&gt;
  | format =&lt;br /&gt;
  | doi =&lt;br /&gt;
  | accessdate =  }} &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mainstream scientists argue that there is no physical evidence for a global flood event that is consistent with the methods and standards of [[scientific evidence]] (see [[Creation science#Flood geology|below]]).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation biology disagrees with biological evolution, in particular [[common descent]] (see [[Creation-evolution controversy]]). Creationists contend that there is no empirical evidence that a [[speciation|new plant or animal species]] with beneficial types of structures or functions has ever originated as a result of the gradual accumulation of [[DNA]] mutations through [[natural selection]].{{Fact|date=March 2007}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Popular arguments against evolution have changed over the years since the publishing of [[Henry M. Morris]]'s first book on the subject, ''Scientific Creationism'', but some themes remain common: [[missing links]] as an indication that evolution is incomplete; arguments based on [[entropy]], [[complexity]] and [[information theory]]; arguments claiming that natural selection is an impossible mechanism; and general criticism of the conclusions drawn from [[natural history|historical sciences]] as lacking experimental basis. The [[human evolution|origin of the human species]] is particularly hotly contested; the fossil remains of purported [[Hominidae|hominid]] ancestors are not considered by advocates of creation biology to be evidence for a speciation event involving [[Homo sapiens]].{{Fact|date=March 2007}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When asked what would disprove evolution in favor of creationism, biologist [[J. B. S. Haldane|J.B.S. Haldane]] replied &amp;quot;fossil rabbits in the [[Precambrian era]]&amp;quot;, a period more than 540 million years ago.{{Fact|date=March 2007}} This is an era during which scientists claim that life on Earth consisted largely of bacteria, algae and plankton.{{Fact|date=March 2007}} [[Richard Dawkins]] explains that evolution &amp;quot;is a theory of gradual, incremental change over millions of years, which starts with something very simple and works up along slow, gradual gradients to greater complexity ... If there were a single hippo or rabbit in the Precambrian, that would completely blow evolution out of the water. None have ever been found.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1090909,00.html Time Magazine, [[15 August]] [[2005]], page 32]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Flood geology===&lt;br /&gt;
{{main|Flood geology}}&lt;br /&gt;
Flood geology is a concept based on the belief that most of Earth's [[geology|geological]] record was formed by the [[Great Flood]] described in the story of [[Noah's ark]]. [[Fossil]]s and [[fossil fuels]] are believed to have formed from animal and plant matter which was buried rapidly during this flood, while [[submarine canyon]]s are explained as having formed during a rapid runoff from the continents at the end of the flood. [[Sedimentation|Sedimentary]] [[rock strata|strata]] are thought to have been predominantly laid down during or after Noah's flood. Flood geology is a variant of [[catastrophism]] and is contrasted with mainstream geology in that it rejects standard geological principles such as [[uniformitarianism]] and [[radiometric dating]]. For example, the [[Creation Research Society]] argues that &amp;quot;uniformitarianism is wishful thinking.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/notes/39/39_1/Note0206.htm creationresearch.org]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mainstream geologists conclude that no such flood is seen in the preserved [[rock layers]] and moreover that the flood itself would be physically impossible today. For instance, since [[Mount Everest]] is approximately 8.8 kilometres in elevation and the Earth's surface is 510,065,600 km², the volume of water required to cover Mount Everest to a depth of 15 [[cubits]] (6.8 [[meters]]), as indicated by [[Genesis]] 7:20, would be 4.6 billion cubic kilometres. The [[Earth's atmosphere]], however, only has the capacity to store [[Water vapor#Water vapor in Earth's atmosphere|water in vapor form]] sufficient to blanket the globe to a depth of 25 millimeters. Nevertheless, there continue to be many creationists who argue that the flood can explain the evidence from geology and [[paleontology]] that are often used to dispute creationists' claims. Recent years have seen the proposal of theories such as [[catastrophic plate tectonics]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Creationist cosmologies===&lt;br /&gt;
{{main|Creationist cosmologies}}&lt;br /&gt;
Several attempts have been made by creationists to construct a cosmology consistent with a young universe rather than the standard cosmological [[age of the universe]], based on the belief that Genesis describes the creation of the universe as well as the Earth. The primary challenge for young-universe cosmologies is that the accepted distances in the universe require millions or billions of years for light to travel to Earth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cosmology is not as widely discussed as [[creation biology]] or [[flood geology]], for several reasons. First, many creationists, particularly [[old earth creationists]] and [[intelligent design]] theorists, do not dispute that the universe may be billions of years old. Also, some creationists who believe that the Earth was created in the timeframe described in a literal interpretation of Genesis believe that Genesis describes only the creation of the ''Earth'', rather than the creation of the entire universe, allowing for both a young Earth and an old universe. Finally, the technical nature of the discipline of [[physical cosmology]] and its ties to [[mathematical physics]] prevent those without significant technical knowledge from understanding the full details of how the observations and theories behind the current models work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Radiohaloes===&lt;br /&gt;
{{see also|Radiohalo}}&lt;br /&gt;
In the [[1970s]], young Earth creationist [[Robert V. Gentry]] proposed that radiohaloes in certain granites represented evidence for the Earth being created instantaneously rather than gradually. This idea has been criticized by mainstream physicists and geologists on many grounds including that the rocks Gentry studies are not primordial and that the radionuclides in question need not have been the initial conditions of the rocks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas A. Baillieul, a geologist and retired senior environmental scientist with the Federal government, disputed Gentry's claims in an article entitled, &amp;quot;&amp;quot;Polonium Haloes&amp;quot; Refuted: A Review of &amp;quot;Radioactive Halos in a Radio-Chronological and Cosmological Perspective&amp;quot;&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/po-halos/gentry.html &amp;quot;Polonium Haloes&amp;quot; Refuted - A Review of &amp;quot;Radioactive Halos in a Radio-Chronological and Cosmological Perspective&amp;quot; by Robert V. Gentry] by Thomas A. Baillieul. Copyright 2001-2005. Last Updated 22 April 2005.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Baillieul noted that Gentry was a physicist with no background in geology and given the absence of this background, Gentry had misrepresented the geological context from which the specimens were collected. Additionally, he notes that Gentry relied on research from the beginning of the 20th century, long before radioisotopes were thoroughly understood; that his assumption that a Polonium isotope cause the rings was speculative; and that Gentry falsely argues that the [[half-life]] of radioactive elements varies with time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Planetology===&lt;br /&gt;
{{see also|Planetary science}}&lt;br /&gt;
Creation scientists advance various items of evidence which are claimed to prove that the age of the [[solar system]] is of the order of thousands of years (in contrast to the scientifically accepted age of 4.6 billion years). Commonly used arguments (which have been thoroughly refuted by planetologists&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE110.html TalkOrigins Index to Creationist Claims Claim 110] talkorigins.org edited by Mark Isaak. 2005.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE261.html TalkOrigins Index to Creationist Claims Claim 261] talkorigins.org edited by Mark Isaak. 2004.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;) relate to the numbers of [[comet]]s and the recession of the [[moon]] from the Earth.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
| author=[[Jonathan Sarfati]]&lt;br /&gt;
| title=The moon: the light that rules the night&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/moon.asp&lt;br /&gt;
| date=September 1998&lt;br /&gt;
| accessdate=2007-02-14}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
| author=[[Jonathan Sarfati]]&lt;br /&gt;
| title=Comets—portents of doom or indicators of youth?&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i3/comets.asp&lt;br /&gt;
| date=June 2003&lt;br /&gt;
| accessdate=2007-02-14}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In response to increasing evidence suggesting that [[Mars]] once possessed a wetter climate, some creation scientists have proposed that the [[flood geology|global flood]] affected not only the Earth but also Mars and other planets. People who support this claim include creationist astronomer Wayne Spencer and creationist cosmologist [[Russell Humphreys]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
| title=Water on Mars: A Creationist Response&lt;br /&gt;
| author=Dr Russ Humphreys&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/203.asp&lt;br /&gt;
| date=August 1997&lt;br /&gt;
| accessdate=2007-02-14}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An ongoing problem for creationists is the presence of [[impact crater]]ing on nearly all solar system objects, which is consistent with mainstream scientific explanations of solar system origins but difficult to account for within a young-universe framework. Creationist astronomers are undecided as to whether [[meteorite|meteoritic]] bombardment of the solar system occurred during creation week or during the subsequent [[Great Flood]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
|title=A biblically-based cratering theory&lt;br /&gt;
| author=Danny Faulkner&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v13/i1/crater.asp&lt;br /&gt;
|date=April 1999&lt;br /&gt;
|accessdate=2007-02-14&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
|title=Response to Faulkner’s ‘biblically-based cratering theory’&lt;br /&gt;
| author=Wayne R. Spencer&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i1/cratering.asp&lt;br /&gt;
|date=April 2000&lt;br /&gt;
|accessdate=2007-02-14&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Adnan Oktar]] - a Muslim advocate of creation science&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Cargo cult science]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Omphalos (theology)]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Rapid-decay theory]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Conflict thesis]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[List of paradigm shifts in science]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--&lt;br /&gt;
IT SEEMS THESE REFERENCES AREN'T ACTUALLY USED IN THE ARTICLE&lt;br /&gt;
{{mnb|dicdef|1}} [http://www.bartleby.com/61/42/C0734200.html American Heritage Dictionary definition of ''creation science'']&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{mnb|quinn|2}} &amp;quot;The philosopher of science as expert witness&amp;quot;, p. 43, in Cushing, J., Delaney, C.F. &amp;amp; Gutting, G., Science and reality: Recent Work in the Philosophy of Science, University of Notre Dame Press, 1984.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{mnb|nap|3}} [http://www.nap.edu/books/0309064066/html/2.html ''Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences, Second Edition''], 1999, National Academy of Sciences.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{mnb|steve|4}} [http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/5945_the_faqs_2_16_2003.asp Project Steve: FAQs] National Center for Science Education, 2003-2005&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Further reading==&lt;br /&gt;
===Proponents===&lt;br /&gt;
* Don Batten (ed.), ''The Answers Book'' ISBN 978-0-949906-23-6 (Brisbane, Australia: Answers in Genesis, 1999)&lt;br /&gt;
* Duane T. Gish, ''Creation Scientists Answer Their Critics'' ISBN 978-0-932766-28-1 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1993)&lt;br /&gt;
* Henry M. Morris (ed.), ''Scientific Creationism'' ISBN 0890510032  (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 1985)&lt;br /&gt;
* Henry M. Morris and Gary E. Parker, ''What is Creation Science?'' ISBN 978-0-89051-081-0 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1987)&lt;br /&gt;
* Terry Mortenson, ''The Great Turning Point: The Church's Catastrophic Mistake on Geology &amp;amp;mdash; Before Darwin'' ISBN 978-0-89051-408-5 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2004)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fazale Rana and Hugh Ross, ''Origins of Life: Biblical and Evolutionary Models Face Off'', ISBN 978-1-57683-344-5 (Navpress Publishing Group, 2004)&lt;br /&gt;
* Seraphim Rose, ''Genesis, Creation and Early Man'' ISBN 978-1-887904-02-5 (Saint Herman, 2000)&lt;br /&gt;
* Ariel A. Roth, ''Origins &amp;amp;ndash; Linking Science and Scripture'' ISBN 978-0-8280-1328-4 (Hagarstown, MD: Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1998) &lt;br /&gt;
* [[Jonathan Sarfati]], ''Refuting Evolution'' ISBN 978-0-89051-258-6 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 1999) [http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/re1/intro.asp forward and introduction] &lt;br /&gt;
* Jonathan Sarfati, ''Refuting Evolution 2'' ISBN 978-0-89051-387-3 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2002) [http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/RE2/index.asp table of contents with links to chapters] &lt;br /&gt;
* Jonathan Sarfati, ''Refuting Compromise'' ISBN 978-0-89051-411-5 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2004) [http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/rc/intro.asp introductory chapter and some reviews]&lt;br /&gt;
* John C. Whitcomb and Henry Morris, ''The Genesis Flood'' ISBN 978-0-87552-338-5 (Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., 1964) &lt;br /&gt;
* A. E. Wilder-Smith, ''Man's Origin, Man's Destiny'' ISBN 978-0-87123-356-1 (Wheaton, IL: Harold Shaw Co., 1968)&lt;br /&gt;
* A. E. Wilder-Smith, ''Scientific Alternative to Neo-Darwinian Evolutionary Theory'' ISBN 978-99921-39-67-7 (Costa Mesa, CA: TWFT Publishers, 1987)&lt;br /&gt;
* John Woodmorappe, ''Studies in Flood Geology'' ISBN 978-0-932766-54-0 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1993)&lt;br /&gt;
* John Woodmorappe, ''Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study'' ISBN 978-0-932766-41-0 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1996)&lt;br /&gt;
* John Woodmorappe, ''The Mythology of Modern Dating Methods'' ISBN 978-0-932766-57-1 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1999)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Critics===&lt;br /&gt;
* Vernon Blackmore, and Andrew Page, ''Evolution, The Great Debate'' (Oxford: Lion Publishing, 1989)&lt;br /&gt;
* V. L. Bates, ''Christian Fundamentalism and the Theory of Evolution in Public School Education: A Study of the Creation Science Movement'' (Ph.D. dissertation, University of California, Davis: 1976).&lt;br /&gt;
* R. M. Frye, ''Is God a creationist? The religious case against creation-science'' ISBN 978-0-684-17993-3 (New York: Scribner's, 1983)&lt;br /&gt;
* P. Kitcher, ''Abusing Science: The Case Against Creationism'' ISBN 978-0-262-61037-7 (Boston, MA: The MIT Press, 1983)&lt;br /&gt;
* R. Lewin, ''Where is the Science in Creation Science?'' (''Science'' v.215, pp.142&amp;amp;ndash;146.)&lt;br /&gt;
* R. Pennock, ''Tower of Babel: The Evidence against the New Creationism'' ISBN 978-0-262-66165-2 (The MIT Press, Reprint edition, [[February 28]] [[2000]])&lt;br /&gt;
* B. Vawter, ''Creationism: Creative Misuse of the Bible'', in R. M. Frye (ed.), ''ibid.'' p.71&amp;amp;ndash;82.&lt;br /&gt;
* R. L. Numbers, ''The Creationists'' ISBN 978-0-679-40104-9 (New York: A. A. Knopf / Random House, 1992)&lt;br /&gt;
* D. B. McKown, ''The mythmaker's magic: Behind the illusion of &amp;quot;creation science&amp;quot;'' ISBN 978-0-87975-770-0 (Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1993)&lt;br /&gt;
* L. Tiffin, ''Creationism's Upside-Down Pyramid: How Science Refutes Fundamentalism'' ISBN 978-0-87975-898-1 (Prometheus Books, [[August 1]] [[1994]])&lt;br /&gt;
* M. Zimmerman, M. ''Science, Nonscience and Nonsense'' ISBN 978-0-8018-5774-4 (The Johns Hopkins University Press: Reprint edition, [[December 1]] [[1997]])&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Synoptic Position Statement of the Georgia Academy of Science with Respect to the Forced Teaching of Creation-­Science in Public School Science Education'', Georgia Academy of Science: [[March 22]] [[2000]] (ISBN B0008JBPNY)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
===Neutral===&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0482_0578_ZS.html Edwards v. Aguillard] 1987 U.S. Supreme Court ruling preventing the teaching of creation science in public school science classrooms&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.antievolution.org/projects/mclean/new_site/index.htm McLean v. Arkansas] 1981 challenge to Arkansas' Act 590, which mandated that evolutionary biology instruction be balanced with &amp;quot;creation science&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Proponents===&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.answersingenesis.org/ Answers in Genesis]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.icr.org Institute for Creation Research]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.livingdinos.com Cryptozoology, Living Dinosaurs, and Origins] — &amp;quot;Attacking the Evolutionary view of dinosaurs and supporting the Biblical view that man and dinosaurs have lived together and may still live.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.answersincreation.org Answers In Creation]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.answersingenesis.org/news/scientific_american.asp 15 ways to refute materialistic bigotry] Answers in Genesis' response to [[Scientific American]]'s article [http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF 15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://creationwiki.org/Main_Page CreationWiki]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.trueorigin.org/ The True.Origin Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://www.trueorigin.org/camplist.asp List of Articles Supporting Creation]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.csm.org.uk Creation Science Movement]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationresearch.org/ Creation Research Society]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationdigest.com/ CreationDigest.com]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationsafaris.com/crev200510.htm Creation-Evolution Headlines]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.uark.edu/~cdm/creation/index.htm Creation Insights]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationscience.com Center for Scientific Creation]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2575 15 Answers to John Rennie and Scientific American's Nonsense] (ApologeticsPress.org rebuttal)&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/ Creation Science]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.reasons.org/ Reasons To Believe]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.caseforacreator.com Case for a Creator]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.godandscience.org/ God and Science]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.drdino.com/ Creation Science Evangelism] Hosts MP3s of Seminars spoken by Kent Hovind.&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword.asp?kid=2451 Historical Proof - A Jewish viewpoint] chabad.org&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.harunyahya.com/ Muslim viewpoint]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ Interactive Bible Association Creation Site]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.masterbooks.net/ Master Books] Publishes creation science resources&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Critics===&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://wiki.cotch.net Evo Wiki]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/List_of_Creationist_arguments List of creationist arguments with responses]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm No Answers in Genesis website]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationtheory.org Creationism vs. Science]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.talkorigins.org Talk.Origins Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html Index of Creationist claims with rebuttals]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wic.html Talkorigins.org article on What is Creationism?]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.nsta.org/positionstatement&amp;amp;psid=10 National Science Teachers Association] Position Statement: The Teaching of Evolution&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.nabt.org/sub/position_statements/evolution.asp National Association of Biology Teachers] Statement on Teaching Evolution&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.ncseweb.org/ National Center for Science Education]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://atheism.about.com/religion/atheism/cs/creationism/index.htm About creationism]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/science/creationism/ creationism]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.nap.edu/books/0309064066/html/ Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences] by the Steering Committee on Science and Creationism, National Academy of Sciences&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.skepdic.com/creation.html Skeptics Dictionary] Introduction and criticism of creationism.&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.scicom.lth.se/fmet/myths.html Origin Myths] Introduction to a number of alternative origin myths from varied cultures around the world&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF 15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense] by [[John Rennie (editor)|John Rennie]]- Scientific American&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html Introduction to creationism]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/gish.html Creationism: Bad Science or Immoral Pseudoscience?]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIwiPsgRrOs Roy Zimmerman's &amp;quot;Creation Science 101&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--Categories--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Creation Science| ]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Creationism]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Fringe subjects without critical scientific evaluation]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--Other languages--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[bg:Научен креационизъм]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Schöpfungswissenschaft]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[ko:창조과학]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[ja:創造科学]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[ru:Научный креационизм]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[uk:Науковий креаціонізм]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
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		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: Removing all content from page&lt;/p&gt;
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		<title>Creation Science</title>
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		<updated>2007-04-21T13:31:48Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
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&lt;div&gt;Advocates of '''Creation science''' lay claim to the methods and empirical practices of science, that is, the [[scientific method]], to assert that scientific evidence supports a [[biblical literalism|literal]] interpretation of the Biblical account of creation (see [[Creation according to Genesis]]).  Its advocates, known as creation scientists, primarily include [[Young Earth]] [[Creationist]]s, especially members of [[Evangelicalism|evangelical Christian denominations]] that subscribe to the doctrine of [[biblical inerrancy]]; however, there are examples of [[Islamic creationism|Islamic supporters of creation science]] as well.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA111.html TalkOrigins Index to Creationist Claims Claim CA111] talkorigins.org edited by Mark Isaak. 2005.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/4550_antievolutionism_and_creationi_2_13_2001.asp Antievolutionism and Creationism in the United States]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; [http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2006/XX/961_creationism_news_from_around_t_11_2_2006.asp Creationism news from around the world]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The worldwide scientific community views creation science as a [[pseudoscience]] that does not conform to the [[scientific method]]: creation science cannot propose an underlying mechanism of creation which can be falsified or investigated by scientific means, as stated by proponents themselves.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;Duane Gish, ''Evolution? The Fossils Say No!'', &amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;We do not know how the Creator created, [or] what processes He used, for He used processes which are not now operating anywhere in the natural universe. This is why we refer to creation as special creation. We cannot discover by scientific investigation anything about the creative processes used by the Creator.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation scientists reject the theory of [[common descent]] of all life via evolution (see [[Evolution as theory and fact]]).&lt;br /&gt;
They claim that [[evolution]] is itself [[pseudoscience|pseudoscientific]] &amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;Our theory of evolution has become, as Popper described, one which cannot be refuted by any possible observations. Every conceivable observation can be fitted into it. It is thus outside of 'empirical science' but not necessarily false. No one can think of ways to test it. Ideas, either without basis or based upon a few laboratory experiments carried out in extremely simplified systems, have attained currency far beyond their validity. They have become part of an evolutionary dogma accepted by most of us as part of our training.&amp;quot; [http://www.rtforum.org/lt/lt79.html Roman theological forum] Positivism: the father of naturalism, Clement Butel, 1999&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
and argue in favor of [[creation biology]]. They may reject scientific estimates of the [[age of the universe]], arguing for creationist cosmologies based on an age of less than ten thousand years. Creation science also regards the usual scientific theories of [[geology]] as being strongly tied to [[Uniformitarianism (science)|uniformitarianism]], the concept that that processes occurring in the present have operated in the past and will continue in the future. Nevertheless, modern geology describes volcanic episodes, gross climate changes, and meteoritic impacts large enough to have caused [[extinctions]] as part of the regular cycle of the earth.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://geography.about.com/od/physicalgeography/a/uniformitarian.htm Uniformitarianism]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Standard explanations of many phenomena through gradual processes, such as mountain building by colliding plates, are  discarded by Creation scientists in favor of [[catastrophism]] which postulates that at intervals in the earth’s history cataclysms destroyed (nearly) all living things and formed geological features such as mountains and valleys.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.bartleby.com/65/ca/catastro.html Catastrophism, The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.  2001 - 05]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; They infer the effects of [[flood geology]] based on the the presumed historical accuracy of the Biblical deluge account in [[Genesis]]. Creation scientists by and large do no laboratory or field research; rather they re-interpret existing laboratory and field data. Creation science literature generally consists of compilations of alleged weaknesses in current models of evolution and geology.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.creationism.org/heinze/Universe.htm &amp;quot;How The Universe Began&amp;quot;]  By Thomas F. Heinze. Revised May 2001. Copyright 2002.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The [[United States National Academy of Sciences]] has stated:&lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;the [[theory of evolution]] has become the central unifying concept of biology and is a critical component of many related scientific disciplines . . . [whereas] the claims of creation science lack empirical support and cannot be meaningfully tested. These observations lead to two fundamental conclusions: the teaching of [[evolution]] should be an integral part of science instruction, and creation science is in fact not science and should not be presented as such in science classes.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://orsted.nap.edu/openbook/0309064066/html/2.html Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences, Second Edition] pp. 1-2&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and &lt;br /&gt;
* &amp;quot;Creationism, intelligent design, and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life or of species are not science because they are not testable by the methods of science.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt; National Academy of Sciences, 1999 [http://www.nap.edu/books/0309064066/html/25.html Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences, Second Edition] pg 25&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some advocates have spent many years arguing for the inclusion of creation science in the [[science curriculum]] of U.S. public schools; however, in 1987 in the case [[Edwards v. Aguillard]] the [[Supreme Court of the United States]] held that a requirement that public schools teach creation science alongside evolution as an alternative theory violated the [[Establishment Clause]] of the [[First Amendment to the United States Constitution]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&amp;amp;court=US&amp;amp;vol=482&amp;amp;page=578 EDWARDS v. AGUILLARD, 482 U.S. 578 (1987)]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; (See also [[Intelligent Design movement]].)&lt;br /&gt;
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==History and organization==&lt;br /&gt;
The [[creation theology|doctrine of creation]] is a fundamental and ancient precept of many [[faith]]s including [[Christianity]]. The vast majority of Christian [[Church Fathers]] and [[Reformers]] accepted a literal interpretation of Genesis, and even the few who did not, such as [[Origen]] and [[Augustine of Hippo|Augustine]], defended an earth that was on the order of thousands of years old. An understanding of Genesis, literal or otherwise, requires the harmonisation of the two creation stories, Genesis 1:1-2:3 and Genesis 2:4-25.   Some interpretation is required to resolve inconsistencies in the text.[http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2194][http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/creationint.html]. A literal interpretation of Genesis cannot be considered to be the Christian consensus. According to the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, world leader of Anglicans: &amp;quot;[for] most of the history of Christianity there's been an awareness that a belief that everything depends on the creative act of God, is quite compatible with a degree of uncertainty or latitude about how precisely that unfolds in creative time. &amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/sermons_speeches/0603221a.htm '''Archbishop of Canterbury''', Transcript of interview with the Guardian] &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
By the [[1830s]], [[scientific evidence]] contrary to the doctrine of &amp;quot;[[special creation]]&amp;quot; had begun to accumulate. In [[1859]] [[Charles Darwin]] published ''[[On the Origin of Species]]'' and by the [[1900s]] [[natural selection]] and descent with modification was widely accepted as the unifying principle of biological development. Opposition to this [[scientific consensus]] became codified as the [[creationism|creationist]] movement.&lt;br /&gt;
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The [[history of creationism|history]] of Creation Science begins with writers who looked to studying geology within the Biblical timeframe, detailed for instance in the [[Ussher chronology]]. Such a timeframe directly contradicted that provided by geologists for the [[age of the Earth]]. Some consider the first serious Creation Science writer to be Canadian [[George McCready Price]] who wrote several books, most notably ''The New Geology'', which attempted to contradict mainstream geological understandings of timeframes and [[geologic history]]. Creation Science (dubbed '''Scientific Creationism''' at the time) emerged as an organized movement during the [[1960s]] following the publication of ''[[The Genesis Flood]]'' by [[Henry M. Morris]] and [[John C. Whitcomb]].&lt;br /&gt;
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Creation science was defined in Arkansas Act 590 as follows:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Creation science means the scientific evidences for creation and inferences from those evidences. Creation science includes the scientific evidences and related inferences that indicate:&lt;br /&gt;
:#Sudden creation of the universe, energy and life from nothing. &lt;br /&gt;
:#The insufficiency of mutation and natural selection in bringing about development of all living kinds from a single organism. &lt;br /&gt;
:#Changes only with fixed limits of originally created kinds of plants and animals. &lt;br /&gt;
:#Separate ancestry for man and apes. &lt;br /&gt;
:#Explanation of the earth's geology by catastrophism, including the occurrence of worldwide flood. &lt;br /&gt;
:#A relatively recent inception of the earth and living kinds.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Subsequently, advocates of Creation Science have expanded their critiques into [[biology]] and [[physical cosmology|cosmology]], and sought to have creation science taught in United States public schools. However, these efforts were halted by the Supreme Court's application of the [[First Amendment to the United States Constitution|First amendment]]'s [[Establishment Clause]] in [[Edwards v. Aguillard]], 1987.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Following the Edwards v. Aguillard decision, some adherents lent support to the teaching of [[intelligent design]] under its [[Intelligent design movement#Origin of the movement|'big tent' strategy]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;The promise of the big tent of ID is to provide a setting where Christians (and others) may disagree amicably, and fruitfully, about how best to understand the natural world, as well as Scripture.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://www.equip.org/free/DL303.pdf Life in the big tent: traditional creationism and the intelligent design community]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The allied ''[[Teach the Controversy]]'' campaign claims that intelligent design is on par with the scientific theory of evolution and therefore that both should be taught in schools as equally worthy of consideration.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation Science is distinguished from [[Neo-Creationism]], which is largely associated with the [[intelligent design movement]], in that most advocates of Creation Science accept scripture as a foundation for their claims with their primary goal being to the validation of  scripture as historical fact through the use of science. Neo-Creationism eschews references to scripture altogether from its [[polemics]] and stated goals as a matter of principle (see [[Wedge strategy]]). By so doing, intelligent design proponents hope to succeed where creation science has failed in securing a place in public school science curriculum. Carefully avoiding any reference to the identity of the [[intelligent designer]] as God in their public arguments, intelligent design proponents believe that their movement will return a version of creationism back to science classrooms without violating the [[First Amendment]].&amp;lt;ref name=&amp;quot;johnson_bible_out&amp;quot;&amp;gt;&amp;quot;...the first thing that has to be done is to get the Bible out of the discussion. ...This is not to say that the biblical issues are unimportant; the point is rather that the time to address them will be after we have separated materialist prejudice from scientific fact.&amp;quot; Phillip Johnson. &amp;quot;The Wedge&amp;quot;, Touchstone: A Journal of Mere Christianity. July/August 1999.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref name=debate_won&amp;gt;[http://www.coralridge.org/specialdocs/evolutiondebate.asp the Evolution Debate Can Be Won.] Phillip Johnson. Truths that Transform.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; However, this effort was struck down as a violation of the Establishment Clause in [[Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District]]. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Today, Creation Science as an organized movement is primarily centered within the [[United States]], although Creation Science organizations are known in other countries, most notably [[Answers in Genesis]] which was founded in Australia. Proponents are found primarily among various denominations of [[Christianity]] described as [[evangelicalism|evangelical]], conservative, or [[fundamentalist Christianity|fundamentalist]]. While creationist movements also exist in [[Islam]], and [[Judaism]], these movements do not use the phrase ''creation science'' to describe their beliefs.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Issues==&lt;br /&gt;
Creation Science has its roots in the ongoing effort by [[Young Earth creationism|young-earth creationists]] to dispute [[science|modern science]]'s description of [[natural history]] (particularly biological evolution, but also [[geology]] and [[physical cosmology]]) while attempting to offer an alternative explanation of observable phenomena compatible with the Biblical account.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The proponents of Creation Science often argue that many observable phenomena fit more easily into the Biblical account than with the naturalistic worldview.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;We can then apply the scientific method to test our predictions and see which set fits better with what we actually observe.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://www.originsresource.org/creationsci.htm How can creation have anything to do with science?]&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;By this definition it would not be scientific to even consider any of the evidence that God created.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://www.creationism.org/heinze/Universe.htm How The Universe Began]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The vast majority of mainstream scientists argue that this premise runs counter to the core principles of coherent [[scientific method]]ology and that literal interpretations of the Bible which demand a global flood, a young Earth, or special creation of [[created kinds]] can be shown to be unsupported by [[scientific evidence]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html nap.edu]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Creation science proponents admit  that their oppositional stance is based on religion. [[Duane Gish]], a prominent creation science proponent, has argued that &amp;quot;We cannot discover by scientific investigation anything about the creative processes used by the Creator.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://people.hofstra.edu/faculty/robert_l_hall/ISB1F01/ScienceInCreationScience.html people.hofstra.edu]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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===Metaphysical assumptions===&lt;br /&gt;
Creation Science makes the ''a priori'' metaphysical assumption that the Creator exists. Christian Creation Science holds that the description of Creation is given in the Bible and that empirical scientific evidence corresponds with that description.  Creationists in general see a doctrinaire commitment to exclude the Supreme Being and miracles as a motivating factor in [[Darwinism]], a term used in a derogatory fashion to refer to [[evolutionary biology]]. Critics consider Creation Science to be religious, rather than scientific, because it stems from [[faith]] in the Bible, rather than by the application of the scientific method.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mclean-v-arkansas.html talkorigins.org] &amp;amp;ndash; mclean-v-arkansas&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; The [[United States National Academy of Sciences]] (NAS), has noted, &amp;quot;Religious opposition to evolution propels antievolutionism. Although antievolutionists pay lip service to supposed scientific problems with evolution, what motivates them to battle its teaching is apprehension over the implications of evolution for religion.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/4550_antievolutionism_and_creationi_2_13_2001.asp National Center for Science Education]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation science advocates argue that mainstream [[scientific theories]] of the origins of the universe, the earth, and life are rooted in ''a priori'' presumptions of [[Methodology|methodological]] [[naturalism (philosophy)|naturalism]] and [[Uniformitarianism (science)|uniformitarianism]], each of which is disputed. In some areas of science, for example [[chemistry]], [[meteorology]] or [[medicine]], the default assumptions of a naturalistic universe and uniformitarianism are not considered problematic to creation science proponents. As a matter of principle, creation science advocates single out only those scientific theories that they have determined are most in conflict with their beliefs, and it is against those theories that they concentrate their efforts.&lt;br /&gt;
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===Religious criticism===&lt;br /&gt;
[[Fideism|Fideists]] criticize creation science on the grounds either that religious faith alone should be a sufficient basis for belief in the truth of Creation, or that efforts to prove the Genesis account of creation on scientific grounds are inherently futile as reason is subordinate to faith and cannot thus be used to prove it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Some [[Christian theology|Christian theologies]], including [[Liberal Christianity]], consider the [[Creation according to Genesis|Genesis narrative]] to be a [[poetry|poetic]] and [[allegory|allegorical]] work rather than a literal history, and many Christian churches &amp;amp;ndash; including the [[Roman Catholic]],&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/8712_message_from_the_pope_1996_1_3_2001.asp ncseweb.org]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; [[Anglican]] and the more liberal denominations of the [[Lutheran]], [[Methodist]], [[Congregational church|Congregationalist]] and [[Presbyterian]] faiths &amp;amp;ndash; have either rejected creation science outright or are ambivalent to it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Many{{Fact|date=February 2007}} churches reject creation science in favour of some version of [[Theistic evolution]].&lt;br /&gt;
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===Scientific criticism===&lt;br /&gt;
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The [[United States National Academy of Sciences]] states that ''&amp;quot;creation science is in fact [[pseudoscience|not science]] and should not be presented as such.&amp;quot;''&amp;lt;ref name = &amp;quot;NAS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html National Academy of Sciences]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; and that &amp;quot;the claims of creation science lack empirical support and cannot be meaningfully tested.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref name = &amp;quot;NAS&amp;quot; /&amp;gt; According to [[Skeptic Magazine]], the &amp;quot;''creation 'science' movement gains much of its strength through the use of distortion and scientifically unethical tactics''&amp;quot; and &amp;quot;''seriously misrepresents the theory of evolution''.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;!--Joyce Arthur, Published in the Skeptic, magazine of the Skeptic Society, Vol. 4, No. 4, 1996, pp. 88-93--&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/gish.html Creationism: Bad Science or Immoral Pseudoscience?]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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For a [[theory]] to qualify as [[Scientific method|scientific]] it must be:&lt;br /&gt;
* consistent (internally and externally)&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Parsimony|parsimonious]] (sparing in proposed entities or explanations)&lt;br /&gt;
* useful (describing and explaining observed phenomena)&lt;br /&gt;
* empirically testable and [[Falsifiability|falsifiable]]&lt;br /&gt;
* based upon controlled, repeatable experiments&lt;br /&gt;
* correctable and dynamic (changing to fit with newly discovered data)&lt;br /&gt;
* progressive (achieving all that previous theories have and more)&lt;br /&gt;
* tentative (admitting that it might not be correct rather than asserting certainty)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For any [[hypothesis]] or [[conjecture]] to be considered scientific, it must meet at least most, but ideally all, of the above criteria. The fewer which are matched, the less scientific it is. If it meets two or fewer of these criteria, it cannot be treated as scientific in any useful sense of the word.&lt;br /&gt;
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Scientists have considered the hypotheses proposed by creation science and have rejected them because of a lack of evidence. Furthermore, the claims of creation science do not refer to natural causes and cannot be subject to meaningful tests, so they do not qualify as scientific hypotheses. In 1987 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that creationism is religion, not science, and cannot be advocated in public school classrooms.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;The legislative history demonstrates that the term &amp;quot;creation science,&amp;quot; as contemplated by the state legislature, embraces this religious teaching.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0482_0578_ZS.html Edwards v. Aguillard]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Most major religious groups have concluded that the concept of evolution is not at odds with their descriptions of creation and human origins.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;&amp;quot;&amp;lt;cite&amp;gt;Indeed, many scientists are deeply religious. But science and religion occupy two separate realms of human experience. Demanding that they be combined detracts from the glory of each.&amp;lt;/cite&amp;gt;&amp;quot; [http://newton.nap.edu/html/creationism/preface.html Science and creationism]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
A summary of the objections to creation science by mainstream scientists follows:&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science is not falsifiable'' : [[Theism]] is not falsifiable, since the existence of God is typically asserted without sufficient conditions to allow a falsifying observation. If God is a transcendental being, beyond the realm of the observable, no claim about his existence can be supported or undermined by observation. Thus, creationism, the argument from design and other arguments for the existence of God are ''[[a posteriori]]'' arguments. (See also the section on [[#Creation science and falsifiability|falsifiability]] below.)&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science violates the principle of parsimony'' : Creationism fails to pass [[Occam's razor]]. Many explanations offered by creation science are more complex than alternative explanations. [[Parsimony]] favours explanations that make the fewest assumptions and postulate the fewest hypothetical entities.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science is not empirically testable'' : Creationism posits the [[supernatural]] which by definition is beyond empirical natural testing, and thus conflicts with the practical use of [[naturalism (Philosophy)|methodological naturalism]] inherent in science. &lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science is not based upon controlled, repeatable experiments'' : That creationism is not based upon controlled, repeatable experiments stems not from the theory itself, but from the phenomena that it tries to explain.&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Creation science is not correctable, dynamic, tentative or progressive'' : Creationism professes to adhere to an &amp;quot;absolute Truth&amp;quot;, &amp;quot;the word of God&amp;quot;, instead of a provisional assessment of data which can change when new information is discovered. The idea of the progressive growth of scientific ideas is required to explain previous data and any previously unexplainable data as well as any future data. It is often given as a justification for the naturalistic basis of science. In any practical sense of the concept, creation science is not progressive: it does not explain or expand upon what went before it and is not consistent with established ancillary theories.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation science's lack of adherence to the standards of the [[scientific method]] mean that it (and specifically creation science) cannot be said to be scientific in the way that the term &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; is currently defined by the leading world science organisations.&lt;br /&gt;
Creation science has been described as an [[oxymoron]] by Stephen Jay Gould.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.skepticfiles.org/socialis/creation.htm Article] by [[Stephen Jay Gould]] in the [[Skeptical Inquirer]] (Vol. XI, no. 2 / Winter 1986-87)&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
For more discussion, see [[creation-evolution controversy]].&lt;br /&gt;
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===Historical, philosophical, and sociological criticism===&lt;br /&gt;
Historically, the debate of whether creationism is compatible with science can be traced back to [[1874]], the year science historian [[John William Draper]] published his ''History of the Conflict between Religion and Science''. In it Draper portrayed the entire history of scientific development as a war against religion. This presentation of history was propagated further by followers such as [[Andrew Dickson White]] in his essay ''A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom''. Their conclusions, however, have been disputed.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.bede.org.uk/university.htm Medieval Science, the Church and Universities]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
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Some opponents consider creation science to be an [[ideology|ideologically]] and [[politics|politically]] motivated [[propaganda]] tool, with [[cult]]-like features, to promote the creationist agenda in society. They allege that the term &amp;quot;creation science&amp;quot; was chosen to purposely blur the distinction between [[science and religion]], particularly in countries that are religiously-neutral by law (such as the United States), in an attempt to gain official government sanction and recognition of specific religious tenets above those of other faiths. In the United States, the principal focus of Creation Science advocates is on the government-supported [[Public school|public school system]]s, which are prohibited by the [[Establishment Clause]] from promoting specific religions.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Areas of study==&lt;br /&gt;
Subjects within creation science can be split into three main categories, each covering a different area of origins research: [[creation biology]], [[flood geology]], and [[creationist cosmologies]]. These subjects correspond to the mainstream scientific disciplines of [[evolutionary biology]], [[earth sciences]] and [[cosmology]] respectively. Other topics include [[radiohalo]]es and [[planetology]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Creation biology===&lt;br /&gt;
{{main|Creation biology}}&lt;br /&gt;
Creation biology centers around an idea derived from Genesis that states that life was created by God in a finite number of &amp;quot;[[created kind]]s&amp;quot; rather than through biological evolution. Creationists who involve themselves in this endeavor believe that any observable [[speciation]] took place through inbreeding, deleterious mutations and other genetic mechanisms designed for rapid &amp;quot;downhill rearrangements&amp;quot; during an alleged [[population bottleneck]] after the [[great flood]] of [[Noah's ark]], which they claim was an actual historical event that happened in a manner consistent with its description in the Bible.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
  | last = Sarfati&lt;br /&gt;
  | first = J&lt;br /&gt;
  | authorlink = Jonathon Sarfati&lt;br /&gt;
  | coauthors =&lt;br /&gt;
  | title = How did all the animals fit on Noah's Ark?&lt;br /&gt;
  | work = Creation Vol 19 Issue 2.&lt;br /&gt;
  | publisher =&lt;br /&gt;
  | date = 1997&lt;br /&gt;
  | url = http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp&lt;br /&gt;
  | format =&lt;br /&gt;
  | doi =&lt;br /&gt;
  | accessdate =  }} &amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
Mainstream scientists argue that there is no physical evidence for a global flood event that is consistent with the methods and standards of [[scientific evidence]] (see [[Creation science#Flood geology|below]]).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Creation biology disagrees with biological evolution, in particular [[common descent]] (see [[Creation-evolution controversy]]). Creationists contend that there is no empirical evidence that a [[speciation|new plant or animal species]] with beneficial types of structures or functions has ever originated as a result of the gradual accumulation of [[DNA]] mutations through [[natural selection]].{{Fact|date=March 2007}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Popular arguments against evolution have changed over the years since the publishing of [[Henry M. Morris]]'s first book on the subject, ''Scientific Creationism'', but some themes remain common: [[missing links]] as an indication that evolution is incomplete; arguments based on [[entropy]], [[complexity]] and [[information theory]]; arguments claiming that natural selection is an impossible mechanism; and general criticism of the conclusions drawn from [[natural history|historical sciences]] as lacking experimental basis. The [[human evolution|origin of the human species]] is particularly hotly contested; the fossil remains of purported [[Hominidae|hominid]] ancestors are not considered by advocates of creation biology to be evidence for a speciation event involving [[Homo sapiens]].{{Fact|date=March 2007}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
When asked what would disprove evolution in favor of creationism, biologist [[J. B. S. Haldane|J.B.S. Haldane]] replied &amp;quot;fossil rabbits in the [[Precambrian era]]&amp;quot;, a period more than 540 million years ago.{{Fact|date=March 2007}} This is an era during which scientists claim that life on Earth consisted largely of bacteria, algae and plankton.{{Fact|date=March 2007}} [[Richard Dawkins]] explains that evolution &amp;quot;is a theory of gradual, incremental change over millions of years, which starts with something very simple and works up along slow, gradual gradients to greater complexity ... If there were a single hippo or rabbit in the Precambrian, that would completely blow evolution out of the water. None have ever been found.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1090909,00.html Time Magazine, [[15 August]] [[2005]], page 32]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Flood geology===&lt;br /&gt;
{{main|Flood geology}}&lt;br /&gt;
Flood geology is a concept based on the belief that most of Earth's [[geology|geological]] record was formed by the [[Great Flood]] described in the story of [[Noah's ark]]. [[Fossil]]s and [[fossil fuels]] are believed to have formed from animal and plant matter which was buried rapidly during this flood, while [[submarine canyon]]s are explained as having formed during a rapid runoff from the continents at the end of the flood. [[Sedimentation|Sedimentary]] [[rock strata|strata]] are thought to have been predominantly laid down during or after Noah's flood. Flood geology is a variant of [[catastrophism]] and is contrasted with mainstream geology in that it rejects standard geological principles such as [[uniformitarianism]] and [[radiometric dating]]. For example, the [[Creation Research Society]] argues that &amp;quot;uniformitarianism is wishful thinking.&amp;quot;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/notes/39/39_1/Note0206.htm creationresearch.org]&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Mainstream geologists conclude that no such flood is seen in the preserved [[rock layers]] and moreover that the flood itself would be physically impossible today. For instance, since [[Mount Everest]] is approximately 8.8 kilometres in elevation and the Earth's surface is 510,065,600 km², the volume of water required to cover Mount Everest to a depth of 15 [[cubits]] (6.8 [[meters]]), as indicated by [[Genesis]] 7:20, would be 4.6 billion cubic kilometres. The [[Earth's atmosphere]], however, only has the capacity to store [[Water vapor#Water vapor in Earth's atmosphere|water in vapor form]] sufficient to blanket the globe to a depth of 25 millimeters. Nevertheless, there continue to be many creationists who argue that the flood can explain the evidence from geology and [[paleontology]] that are often used to dispute creationists' claims. Recent years have seen the proposal of theories such as [[catastrophic plate tectonics]].&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Creationist cosmologies===&lt;br /&gt;
{{main|Creationist cosmologies}}&lt;br /&gt;
Several attempts have been made by creationists to construct a cosmology consistent with a young universe rather than the standard cosmological [[age of the universe]], based on the belief that Genesis describes the creation of the universe as well as the Earth. The primary challenge for young-universe cosmologies is that the accepted distances in the universe require millions or billions of years for light to travel to Earth.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Cosmology is not as widely discussed as [[creation biology]] or [[flood geology]], for several reasons. First, many creationists, particularly [[old earth creationists]] and [[intelligent design]] theorists, do not dispute that the universe may be billions of years old. Also, some creationists who believe that the Earth was created in the timeframe described in a literal interpretation of Genesis believe that Genesis describes only the creation of the ''Earth'', rather than the creation of the entire universe, allowing for both a young Earth and an old universe. Finally, the technical nature of the discipline of [[physical cosmology]] and its ties to [[mathematical physics]] prevent those without significant technical knowledge from understanding the full details of how the observations and theories behind the current models work.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Radiohaloes===&lt;br /&gt;
{{see also|Radiohalo}}&lt;br /&gt;
In the [[1970s]], young Earth creationist [[Robert V. Gentry]] proposed that radiohaloes in certain granites represented evidence for the Earth being created instantaneously rather than gradually. This idea has been criticized by mainstream physicists and geologists on many grounds including that the rocks Gentry studies are not primordial and that the radionuclides in question need not have been the initial conditions of the rocks.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Thomas A. Baillieul, a geologist and retired senior environmental scientist with the Federal government, disputed Gentry's claims in an article entitled, &amp;quot;&amp;quot;Polonium Haloes&amp;quot; Refuted: A Review of &amp;quot;Radioactive Halos in a Radio-Chronological and Cosmological Perspective&amp;quot;&amp;quot;.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/po-halos/gentry.html &amp;quot;Polonium Haloes&amp;quot; Refuted - A Review of &amp;quot;Radioactive Halos in a Radio-Chronological and Cosmological Perspective&amp;quot; by Robert V. Gentry] by Thomas A. Baillieul. Copyright 2001-2005. Last Updated 22 April 2005.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt; Baillieul noted that Gentry was a physicist with no background in geology and given the absence of this background, Gentry had misrepresented the geological context from which the specimens were collected. Additionally, he notes that Gentry relied on research from the beginning of the 20th century, long before radioisotopes were thoroughly understood; that his assumption that a Polonium isotope cause the rings was speculative; and that Gentry falsely argues that the [[half-life]] of radioactive elements varies with time.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Planetology===&lt;br /&gt;
{{see also|Planetary science}}&lt;br /&gt;
Creation scientists advance various items of evidence which are claimed to prove that the age of the [[solar system]] is of the order of thousands of years (in contrast to the scientifically accepted age of 4.6 billion years). Commonly used arguments (which have been thoroughly refuted by planetologists&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE110.html TalkOrigins Index to Creationist Claims Claim 110] talkorigins.org edited by Mark Isaak. 2005.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;[http://talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE261.html TalkOrigins Index to Creationist Claims Claim 261] talkorigins.org edited by Mark Isaak. 2004.&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;) relate to the numbers of [[comet]]s and the recession of the [[moon]] from the Earth.&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
| author=[[Jonathan Sarfati]]&lt;br /&gt;
| title=The moon: the light that rules the night&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/moon.asp&lt;br /&gt;
| date=September 1998&lt;br /&gt;
| accessdate=2007-02-14}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
| author=[[Jonathan Sarfati]]&lt;br /&gt;
| title=Comets—portents of doom or indicators of youth?&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v25/i3/comets.asp&lt;br /&gt;
| date=June 2003&lt;br /&gt;
| accessdate=2007-02-14}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In response to increasing evidence suggesting that [[Mars]] once possessed a wetter climate, some creation scientists have proposed that the [[flood geology|global flood]] affected not only the Earth but also Mars and other planets. People who support this claim include creationist astronomer Wayne Spencer and creationist cosmologist [[Russell Humphreys]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
| title=Water on Mars: A Creationist Response&lt;br /&gt;
| author=Dr Russ Humphreys&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/203.asp&lt;br /&gt;
| date=August 1997&lt;br /&gt;
| accessdate=2007-02-14}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
An ongoing problem for creationists is the presence of [[impact crater]]ing on nearly all solar system objects, which is consistent with mainstream scientific explanations of solar system origins but difficult to account for within a young-universe framework. Creationist astronomers are undecided as to whether [[meteorite|meteoritic]] bombardment of the solar system occurred during creation week or during the subsequent [[Great Flood]].&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
|title=A biblically-based cratering theory&lt;br /&gt;
| author=Danny Faulkner&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v13/i1/crater.asp&lt;br /&gt;
|date=April 1999&lt;br /&gt;
|accessdate=2007-02-14&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&amp;lt;ref&amp;gt;{{cite web&lt;br /&gt;
|title=Response to Faulkner’s ‘biblically-based cratering theory’&lt;br /&gt;
| author=Wayne R. Spencer&lt;br /&gt;
| url=http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v14/i1/cratering.asp&lt;br /&gt;
|date=April 2000&lt;br /&gt;
|accessdate=2007-02-14&lt;br /&gt;
}}&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;/ref&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==See also==&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Adnan Oktar]] - a Muslim advocate of creation science&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Cargo cult science]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Omphalos (theology)]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Rapid-decay theory]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[Conflict thesis]]&lt;br /&gt;
* [[List of paradigm shifts in science]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==References==&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;references/&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--&lt;br /&gt;
IT SEEMS THESE REFERENCES AREN'T ACTUALLY USED IN THE ARTICLE&lt;br /&gt;
{{mnb|dicdef|1}} [http://www.bartleby.com/61/42/C0734200.html American Heritage Dictionary definition of ''creation science'']&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{mnb|quinn|2}} &amp;quot;The philosopher of science as expert witness&amp;quot;, p. 43, in Cushing, J., Delaney, C.F. &amp;amp; Gutting, G., Science and reality: Recent Work in the Philosophy of Science, University of Notre Dame Press, 1984.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{mnb|nap|3}} [http://www.nap.edu/books/0309064066/html/2.html ''Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences, Second Edition''], 1999, National Academy of Sciences.&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
{{mnb|steve|4}} [http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/articles/5945_the_faqs_2_16_2003.asp Project Steve: FAQs] National Center for Science Education, 2003-2005&amp;lt;br&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Further reading==&lt;br /&gt;
===Proponents===&lt;br /&gt;
* Don Batten (ed.), ''The Answers Book'' ISBN 978-0-949906-23-6 (Brisbane, Australia: Answers in Genesis, 1999)&lt;br /&gt;
* Duane T. Gish, ''Creation Scientists Answer Their Critics'' ISBN 978-0-932766-28-1 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1993)&lt;br /&gt;
* Henry M. Morris (ed.), ''Scientific Creationism'' ISBN 0890510032  (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 1985)&lt;br /&gt;
* Henry M. Morris and Gary E. Parker, ''What is Creation Science?'' ISBN 978-0-89051-081-0 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1987)&lt;br /&gt;
* Terry Mortenson, ''The Great Turning Point: The Church's Catastrophic Mistake on Geology &amp;amp;mdash; Before Darwin'' ISBN 978-0-89051-408-5 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2004)&lt;br /&gt;
* Fazale Rana and Hugh Ross, ''Origins of Life: Biblical and Evolutionary Models Face Off'', ISBN 978-1-57683-344-5 (Navpress Publishing Group, 2004)&lt;br /&gt;
* Seraphim Rose, ''Genesis, Creation and Early Man'' ISBN 978-1-887904-02-5 (Saint Herman, 2000)&lt;br /&gt;
* Ariel A. Roth, ''Origins &amp;amp;ndash; Linking Science and Scripture'' ISBN 978-0-8280-1328-4 (Hagarstown, MD: Review and Herald Publishing Association, 1998) &lt;br /&gt;
* [[Jonathan Sarfati]], ''Refuting Evolution'' ISBN 978-0-89051-258-6 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 1999) [http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/re1/intro.asp forward and introduction] &lt;br /&gt;
* Jonathan Sarfati, ''Refuting Evolution 2'' ISBN 978-0-89051-387-3 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2002) [http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/RE2/index.asp table of contents with links to chapters] &lt;br /&gt;
* Jonathan Sarfati, ''Refuting Compromise'' ISBN 978-0-89051-411-5 (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2004) [http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/rc/intro.asp introductory chapter and some reviews]&lt;br /&gt;
* John C. Whitcomb and Henry Morris, ''The Genesis Flood'' ISBN 978-0-87552-338-5 (Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., 1964) &lt;br /&gt;
* A. E. Wilder-Smith, ''Man's Origin, Man's Destiny'' ISBN 978-0-87123-356-1 (Wheaton, IL: Harold Shaw Co., 1968)&lt;br /&gt;
* A. E. Wilder-Smith, ''Scientific Alternative to Neo-Darwinian Evolutionary Theory'' ISBN 978-99921-39-67-7 (Costa Mesa, CA: TWFT Publishers, 1987)&lt;br /&gt;
* John Woodmorappe, ''Studies in Flood Geology'' ISBN 978-0-932766-54-0 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1993)&lt;br /&gt;
* John Woodmorappe, ''Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study'' ISBN 978-0-932766-41-0 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1996)&lt;br /&gt;
* John Woodmorappe, ''The Mythology of Modern Dating Methods'' ISBN 978-0-932766-57-1 (El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1999)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Critics===&lt;br /&gt;
* Vernon Blackmore, and Andrew Page, ''Evolution, The Great Debate'' (Oxford: Lion Publishing, 1989)&lt;br /&gt;
* V. L. Bates, ''Christian Fundamentalism and the Theory of Evolution in Public School Education: A Study of the Creation Science Movement'' (Ph.D. dissertation, University of California, Davis: 1976).&lt;br /&gt;
* R. M. Frye, ''Is God a creationist? The religious case against creation-science'' ISBN 978-0-684-17993-3 (New York: Scribner's, 1983)&lt;br /&gt;
* P. Kitcher, ''Abusing Science: The Case Against Creationism'' ISBN 978-0-262-61037-7 (Boston, MA: The MIT Press, 1983)&lt;br /&gt;
* R. Lewin, ''Where is the Science in Creation Science?'' (''Science'' v.215, pp.142&amp;amp;ndash;146.)&lt;br /&gt;
* R. Pennock, ''Tower of Babel: The Evidence against the New Creationism'' ISBN 978-0-262-66165-2 (The MIT Press, Reprint edition, [[February 28]] [[2000]])&lt;br /&gt;
* B. Vawter, ''Creationism: Creative Misuse of the Bible'', in R. M. Frye (ed.), ''ibid.'' p.71&amp;amp;ndash;82.&lt;br /&gt;
* R. L. Numbers, ''The Creationists'' ISBN 978-0-679-40104-9 (New York: A. A. Knopf / Random House, 1992)&lt;br /&gt;
* D. B. McKown, ''The mythmaker's magic: Behind the illusion of &amp;quot;creation science&amp;quot;'' ISBN 978-0-87975-770-0 (Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1993)&lt;br /&gt;
* L. Tiffin, ''Creationism's Upside-Down Pyramid: How Science Refutes Fundamentalism'' ISBN 978-0-87975-898-1 (Prometheus Books, [[August 1]] [[1994]])&lt;br /&gt;
* M. Zimmerman, M. ''Science, Nonscience and Nonsense'' ISBN 978-0-8018-5774-4 (The Johns Hopkins University Press: Reprint edition, [[December 1]] [[1997]])&lt;br /&gt;
* ''Synoptic Position Statement of the Georgia Academy of Science with Respect to the Forced Teaching of Creation-­Science in Public School Science Education'', Georgia Academy of Science: [[March 22]] [[2000]] (ISBN B0008JBPNY)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==External links==&lt;br /&gt;
===Neutral===&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://straylight.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0482_0578_ZS.html Edwards v. Aguillard] 1987 U.S. Supreme Court ruling preventing the teaching of creation science in public school science classrooms&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.antievolution.org/projects/mclean/new_site/index.htm McLean v. Arkansas] 1981 challenge to Arkansas' Act 590, which mandated that evolutionary biology instruction be balanced with &amp;quot;creation science&amp;quot;.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Proponents===&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.answersingenesis.org/ Answers in Genesis]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.icr.org Institute for Creation Research]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.livingdinos.com Cryptozoology, Living Dinosaurs, and Origins] — &amp;quot;Attacking the Evolutionary view of dinosaurs and supporting the Biblical view that man and dinosaurs have lived together and may still live.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.answersincreation.org Answers In Creation]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.answersingenesis.org/news/scientific_american.asp 15 ways to refute materialistic bigotry] Answers in Genesis' response to [[Scientific American]]'s article [http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF 15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://creationwiki.org/Main_Page CreationWiki]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.trueorigin.org/ The True.Origin Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://www.trueorigin.org/camplist.asp List of Articles Supporting Creation]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.csm.org.uk Creation Science Movement]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationresearch.org/ Creation Research Society]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationdigest.com/ CreationDigest.com]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationsafaris.com/crev200510.htm Creation-Evolution Headlines]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.uark.edu/~cdm/creation/index.htm Creation Insights]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationscience.com Center for Scientific Creation]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2575 15 Answers to John Rennie and Scientific American's Nonsense] (ApologeticsPress.org rebuttal)&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/ Creation Science]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.reasons.org/ Reasons To Believe]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.caseforacreator.com Case for a Creator]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.godandscience.org/ God and Science]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.drdino.com/ Creation Science Evangelism] Hosts MP3s of Seminars spoken by Kent Hovind.&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword.asp?kid=2451 Historical Proof - A Jewish viewpoint] chabad.org&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.harunyahya.com/ Muslim viewpoint]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ Interactive Bible Association Creation Site]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.masterbooks.net/ Master Books] Publishes creation science resources&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
===Critics===&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://wiki.cotch.net Evo Wiki]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://wiki.cotch.net/index.php/List_of_Creationist_arguments List of creationist arguments with responses]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://home.austarnet.com.au/stear/default.htm No Answers in Genesis website]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.creationtheory.org Creationism vs. Science]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.talkorigins.org Talk.Origins Archive]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html Index of Creationist claims with rebuttals]&lt;br /&gt;
** [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/wic.html Talkorigins.org article on What is Creationism?]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.nsta.org/positionstatement&amp;amp;psid=10 National Science Teachers Association] Position Statement: The Teaching of Evolution&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.nabt.org/sub/position_statements/evolution.asp National Association of Biology Teachers] Statement on Teaching Evolution&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.ncseweb.org/ National Center for Science Education]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://atheism.about.com/religion/atheism/cs/creationism/index.htm About creationism]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/science/creationism/ creationism]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.nap.edu/books/0309064066/html/ Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences] by the Steering Committee on Science and Creationism, National Academy of Sciences&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.skepdic.com/creation.html Skeptics Dictionary] Introduction and criticism of creationism.&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.scicom.lth.se/fmet/myths.html Origin Myths] Introduction to a number of alternative origin myths from varied cultures around the world&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D4FEC-7D5B-1D07-8E49809EC588EEDF 15 Answers to Creationist Nonsense] by [[John Rennie (editor)|John Rennie]]- Scientific American&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.nap.edu/html/creationism/introduction.html Introduction to creationism]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/gish.html Creationism: Bad Science or Immoral Pseudoscience?]&lt;br /&gt;
* [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIwiPsgRrOs Roy Zimmerman's &amp;quot;Creation Science 101&amp;quot;]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--Categories--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Creation Science| ]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Creationism]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Pseudoscience]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Fringe subjects without critical scientific evaluation]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;!--Other languages--&amp;gt;&lt;br /&gt;
[[bg:Научен креационизъм]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[de:Schöpfungswissenschaft]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[ko:창조과학]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[ja:創造科学]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[ru:Научный креационизм]]&lt;br /&gt;
[[uk:Науковий креаціонізм]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118750</id>
		<title>Debate:Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118750"/>
		<updated>2007-04-20T16:25:04Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* No discernment */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The bible cannot truly be taken literally, because its facts contradict itself. Take the gospels of Luke and Matthew, for example. Matthew states that in the lineage between Jesus and David there are 42 entires, and Luke proclaims only 27, and only three of them overlap. Obviously, both cannot be right, and cannot be used with literal conviction. Also, if Jesus is truly of virgin birth, then he cannot be the Messiah. The Old Testament clearly proclaims that the messiah must be David's descendant. Since Joseph was supposedly a descendant of David, this would make sense, but if he didn't shoot his DNA at Mary, then how can Jesus be the messiah at all? Something is clearly amiss here, and removes credibility from a literal bible. Finally, Matthew chronicles a census ordered by Caesar Augustus happening during the time that Mary and Joseph settled in Bethlehem. However, there were no censi taken at this time by Caesar Augustus. The closest on was done by Qurinin, and that was in 6 AD, no sooner. I question whether any of these bible literalists have actually read the bibles they claim dictate their lives, as if they did, they'd realize how truly ridiculous some of the errors are. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 23:17, 17 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No discernment==&lt;br /&gt;
If you are looking for the truth then you'd better start looking harder and longer. Understanding the Word of God is a little different then reading your school textbook. It sounds like you did a rudimentary scan of the Bible only to find everything not to be totally synchronic. The lineage answer is here: http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/are-josephs-and-marys-lineage-incorrect&lt;br /&gt;
You go on from there, but it is only the same type of faulty logic used with an incomplete picture of actual history. You use selective facts in a subjective manner in order to prove your agenda that the Bible cannot be taken literally. What context are you trying to find these literal inconsistancies? The Creation, the Garden of Eden, the Flood, or the Exodus? These are the literal truths of the Bible. If you don't believe in the One that wrote the Bible then don't waste your time in finding any literal truth in it because you don't have the key.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 19:26, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Typical response. My main argument against a literal interpretation of the Bible is that &amp;quot;the One&amp;quot; didn't write the entire bible, which includes texts that were never meant to be incorporated with others. Also, the Bible as we knew it has gone through numerous translations; it wasn't originally written in English, because it didn't exist back then. Because of the multiple translations needed to get to English, all sense of context is lost since the original Aramic or Hebrew. A crude but effective test can be done on those free translations websites. Take a slang phrase (or any other phrase) such as &amp;quot;All dressed up and nowhere to go&amp;quot;, or something like that. Translate it from English to French, then French to German, then from German to English. You'll find that the new phrase has zero relationship with the original one. Admittedly, translation would be more sophisticated via the human element, but the point is the same. Nobody can accept a literal interpretation of the bible through the English version; the ONLY way to get an accurate interpretation of the Bible is through the original root languages. Otherwise, any literal interpretation is simply a fallacy. And I SINCERELY doubt that you have read the entire collected works of the Bible in its original Hebrew and Aramic. By the way, those websites do not describe how Jesus could have been the Messiah AND of virgin birth. He cannot be both, for if he is of immaculate conception, he doesn't meet the requirements of the prophecy in the Old Testament (on a side note, isn't it funny how god is much meaner and nastier in the Old Testament than in the New?). However, if he is descended from David through Joseph, making him the messiah, that denies a main tenet of Jesus being of immaculate conception. Ergo, it is silly and plain false to take a literal interpretation of the Bible, which was purely meant to describe a template for good and compassion in a world lacking those qualities.&lt;br /&gt;
One other point: after the Flood, God used the rainbow as a symbol to people that he was so distraught by his destruction of the world that he would never do anything cataclysmic again. So how does that hold against the claims of a coming Judgement or any of that other stuff? [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 12:19, 20 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the eternal worlds of Homer Simpson: 'Facts, schmacts. Facts can be used to prove anything that's even remotely true.' That's exactly what you are doing: flying in the face of the facts. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 12:25, 20 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118749</id>
		<title>Debate:Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118749"/>
		<updated>2007-04-20T16:24:31Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* No discernment */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The bible cannot truly be taken literally, because its facts contradict itself. Take the gospels of Luke and Matthew, for example. Matthew states that in the lineage between Jesus and David there are 42 entires, and Luke proclaims only 27, and only three of them overlap. Obviously, both cannot be right, and cannot be used with literal conviction. Also, if Jesus is truly of virgin birth, then he cannot be the Messiah. The Old Testament clearly proclaims that the messiah must be David's descendant. Since Joseph was supposedly a descendant of David, this would make sense, but if he didn't shoot his DNA at Mary, then how can Jesus be the messiah at all? Something is clearly amiss here, and removes credibility from a literal bible. Finally, Matthew chronicles a census ordered by Caesar Augustus happening during the time that Mary and Joseph settled in Bethlehem. However, there were no censi taken at this time by Caesar Augustus. The closest on was done by Qurinin, and that was in 6 AD, no sooner. I question whether any of these bible literalists have actually read the bibles they claim dictate their lives, as if they did, they'd realize how truly ridiculous some of the errors are. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 23:17, 17 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No discernment==&lt;br /&gt;
If you are looking for the truth then you'd better start looking harder and longer. Understanding the Word of God is a little different then reading your school textbook. It sounds like you did a rudimentary scan of the Bible only to find everything not to be totally synchronic. The lineage answer is here: http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/are-josephs-and-marys-lineage-incorrect&lt;br /&gt;
You go on from there, but it is only the same type of faulty logic used with an incomplete picture of actual history. You use selective facts in a subjective manner in order to prove your agenda that the Bible cannot be taken literally. What context are you trying to find these literal inconsistancies? The Creation, the Garden of Eden, the Flood, or the Exodus? These are the literal truths of the Bible. If you don't believe in the One that wrote the Bible then don't waste your time in finding any literal truth in it because you don't have the key.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 19:26, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Typical response. My main argument against a literal interpretation of the Bible is that &amp;quot;the One&amp;quot; didn't write the entire bible, which includes texts that were never meant to be incorporated with others. Also, the Bible as we knew it has gone through numerous translations; it wasn't originally written in English, because it didn't exist back then. Because of the multiple translations needed to get to English, all sense of context is lost since the original Aramic or Hebrew. A crude but effective test can be done on those free translations websites. Take a slang phrase (or any other phrase) such as &amp;quot;All dressed up and nowhere to go&amp;quot;, or something like that. Translate it from English to French, then French to German, then from German to English. You'll find that the new phrase has zero relationship with the original one. Admittedly, translation would be more sophisticated via the human element, but the point is the same. Nobody can accept a literal interpretation of the bible through the English version; the ONLY way to get an accurate interpretation of the Bible is through the original root languages. Otherwise, any literal interpretation is simply a fallacy. And I SINCERELY doubt that you have read the entire collected works of the Bible in its original Hebrew and Aramic. By the way, those websites do not describe how Jesus could have been the Messiah AND of virgin birth. He cannot be both, for if he is of immaculate conception, he doesn't meet the requirements of the prophecy in the Old Testament (on a side note, isn't it funny how god is much meaner and nastier in the Old Testament than in the New?). However, if he is descended from David through Joseph, making him the messiah, that denies a main tenet of Jesus being of immaculate conception. Ergo, it is silly and plain false to take a literal interpretation of the Bible, which was purely meant to describe a template for good and compassion in a world lacking those qualities.&lt;br /&gt;
One other point: after the Flood, God used the rainbow as a symbol to people that he was so distraught by his destruction of the world that he would never do anything cataclysmic again. So how does that hold against the claims of a coming Judgement or any of that other stuff? [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 12:19, 20 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the eternal worlds of Homer Simpson: 'Facts, schmacts. Facts can be used to prove anything that's even remotely true.'&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118748</id>
		<title>Debate:Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118748"/>
		<updated>2007-04-20T16:24:12Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* No discernment */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The bible cannot truly be taken literally, because its facts contradict itself. Take the gospels of Luke and Matthew, for example. Matthew states that in the lineage between Jesus and David there are 42 entires, and Luke proclaims only 27, and only three of them overlap. Obviously, both cannot be right, and cannot be used with literal conviction. Also, if Jesus is truly of virgin birth, then he cannot be the Messiah. The Old Testament clearly proclaims that the messiah must be David's descendant. Since Joseph was supposedly a descendant of David, this would make sense, but if he didn't shoot his DNA at Mary, then how can Jesus be the messiah at all? Something is clearly amiss here, and removes credibility from a literal bible. Finally, Matthew chronicles a census ordered by Caesar Augustus happening during the time that Mary and Joseph settled in Bethlehem. However, there were no censi taken at this time by Caesar Augustus. The closest on was done by Qurinin, and that was in 6 AD, no sooner. I question whether any of these bible literalists have actually read the bibles they claim dictate their lives, as if they did, they'd realize how truly ridiculous some of the errors are. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 23:17, 17 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No discernment==&lt;br /&gt;
If you are looking for the truth then you'd better start looking harder and longer. Understanding the Word of God is a little different then reading your school textbook. It sounds like you did a rudimentary scan of the Bible only to find everything not to be totally synchronic. The lineage answer is here: http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/are-josephs-and-marys-lineage-incorrect&lt;br /&gt;
You go on from there, but it is only the same type of faulty logic used with an incomplete picture of actual history. You use selective facts in a subjective manner in order to prove your agenda that the Bible cannot be taken literally. What context are you trying to find these literal inconsistancies? The Creation, the Garden of Eden, the Flood, or the Exodus? These are the literal truths of the Bible. If you don't believe in the One that wrote the Bible then don't waste your time in finding any literal truth in it because you don't have the key.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 19:26, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Typical response. My main argument against a literal interpretation of the Bible is that &amp;quot;the One&amp;quot; didn't write the entire bible, which includes texts that were never meant to be incorporated with others. Also, the Bible as we knew it has gone through numerous translations; it wasn't originally written in English, because it didn't exist back then. Because of the multiple translations needed to get to English, all sense of context is lost since the original Aramic or Hebrew. A crude but effective test can be done on those free translations websites. Take a slang phrase (or any other phrase) such as &amp;quot;All dressed up and nowhere to go&amp;quot;, or something like that. Translate it from English to French, then French to German, then from German to English. You'll find that the new phrase has zero relationship with the original one. Admittedly, translation would be more sophisticated via the human element, but the point is the same. Nobody can accept a literal interpretation of the bible through the English version; the ONLY way to get an accurate interpretation of the Bible is through the original root languages. Otherwise, any literal interpretation is simply a fallacy. And I SINCERELY doubt that you have read the entire collected works of the Bible in its original Hebrew and Aramic. By the way, those websites do not describe how Jesus could have been the Messiah AND of virgin birth. He cannot be both, for if he is of immaculate conception, he doesn't meet the requirements of the prophecy in the Old Testament (on a side note, isn't it funny how god is much meaner and nastier in the Old Testament than in the New?). However, if he is descended from David through Joseph, making him the messiah, that denies a main tenet of Jesus being of immaculate conception. Ergo, it is silly and plain false to take a literal interpretation of the Bible, which was purely meant to describe a template for good and compassion in a world lacking those qualities.&lt;br /&gt;
One other point: after the Flood, God used the rainbow as a symbol to people that he was so distraught by his destruction of the world that he would never do anything cataclysmic again. So how does that hold against the claims of a coming Judgement or any of that other stuff? [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 12:19, 20 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the eternal worlds of Homer Simpson: 'Facts, schmacts. Facts can be used to prove anything that's even ''Italic text''remotely true.'&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118747</id>
		<title>Debate:Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118747"/>
		<updated>2007-04-20T16:22:25Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* No discernment */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The bible cannot truly be taken literally, because its facts contradict itself. Take the gospels of Luke and Matthew, for example. Matthew states that in the lineage between Jesus and David there are 42 entires, and Luke proclaims only 27, and only three of them overlap. Obviously, both cannot be right, and cannot be used with literal conviction. Also, if Jesus is truly of virgin birth, then he cannot be the Messiah. The Old Testament clearly proclaims that the messiah must be David's descendant. Since Joseph was supposedly a descendant of David, this would make sense, but if he didn't shoot his DNA at Mary, then how can Jesus be the messiah at all? Something is clearly amiss here, and removes credibility from a literal bible. Finally, Matthew chronicles a census ordered by Caesar Augustus happening during the time that Mary and Joseph settled in Bethlehem. However, there were no censi taken at this time by Caesar Augustus. The closest on was done by Qurinin, and that was in 6 AD, no sooner. I question whether any of these bible literalists have actually read the bibles they claim dictate their lives, as if they did, they'd realize how truly ridiculous some of the errors are. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 23:17, 17 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No discernment==&lt;br /&gt;
If you are looking for the truth then you'd better start looking harder and longer. Understanding the Word of God is a little different then reading your school textbook. It sounds like you did a rudimentary scan of the Bible only to find everything not to be totally synchronic. The lineage answer is here: http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/are-josephs-and-marys-lineage-incorrect&lt;br /&gt;
You go on from there, but it is only the same type of faulty logic used with an incomplete picture of actual history. You use selective facts in a subjective manner in order to prove your agenda that the Bible cannot be taken literally. What context are you trying to find these literal inconsistancies? The Creation, the Garden of Eden, the Flood, or the Exodus? These are the literal truths of the Bible. If you don't believe in the One that wrote the Bible then don't waste your time in finding any literal truth in it because you don't have the key.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 19:26, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Typical response. My main argument against a literal interpretation of the Bible is that &amp;quot;the One&amp;quot; didn't write the entire bible, which includes texts that were never meant to be incorporated with others. Also, the Bible as we knew it has gone through numerous translations; it wasn't originally written in English, because it didn't exist back then. Because of the multiple translations needed to get to English, all sense of context is lost since the original Aramic or Hebrew. A crude but effective test can be done on those free translations websites. Take a slang phrase (or any other phrase) such as &amp;quot;All dressed up and nowhere to go&amp;quot;, or something like that. Translate it from English to French, then French to German, then from German to English. You'll find that the new phrase has zero relationship with the original one. Admittedly, translation would be more sophisticated via the human element, but the point is the same. Nobody can accept a literal interpretation of the bible through the English version; the ONLY way to get an accurate interpretation of the Bible is through the original root languages. Otherwise, any literal interpretation is simply a fallacy. And I SINCERELY doubt that you have read the entire collected works of the Bible in its original Hebrew and Aramic. By the way, those websites do not describe how Jesus could have been the Messiah AND of virgin birth. He cannot be both, for if he is of immaculate conception, he doesn't meet the requirements of the prophecy in the Old Testament (on a side note, isn't it funny how god is much meaner and nastier in the Old Testament than in the New?). However, if he is descended from David through Joseph, making him the messiah, that denies a main tenet of Jesus being of immaculate conception. Ergo, it is silly and plain false to take a literal interpretation of the Bible, which was purely meant to describe a template for good and compassion in a world lacking those qualities.&lt;br /&gt;
One other point: after the Flood, God used the rainbow as a symbol to people that he was so distraught by his destruction of the world that he would never do anything cataclysmic again. So how does that hold against the claims of a coming Judgement or any of that other stuff? [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 12:19, 20 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118742</id>
		<title>Debate:Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=118742"/>
		<updated>2007-04-20T16:19:41Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* No discernment */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The bible cannot truly be taken literally, because its facts contradict itself. Take the gospels of Luke and Matthew, for example. Matthew states that in the lineage between Jesus and David there are 42 entires, and Luke proclaims only 27, and only three of them overlap. Obviously, both cannot be right, and cannot be used with literal conviction. Also, if Jesus is truly of virgin birth, then he cannot be the Messiah. The Old Testament clearly proclaims that the messiah must be David's descendant. Since Joseph was supposedly a descendant of David, this would make sense, but if he didn't shoot his DNA at Mary, then how can Jesus be the messiah at all? Something is clearly amiss here, and removes credibility from a literal bible. Finally, Matthew chronicles a census ordered by Caesar Augustus happening during the time that Mary and Joseph settled in Bethlehem. However, there were no censi taken at this time by Caesar Augustus. The closest on was done by Qurinin, and that was in 6 AD, no sooner. I question whether any of these bible literalists have actually read the bibles they claim dictate their lives, as if they did, they'd realize how truly ridiculous some of the errors are. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 23:17, 17 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==No discernment==&lt;br /&gt;
If you are looking for the truth then you'd better start looking harder and longer. Understanding the Word of God is a little different then reading your school textbook. It sounds like you did a rudimentary scan of the Bible only to find everything not to be totally synchronic. The lineage answer is here: http://www.gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/are-josephs-and-marys-lineage-incorrect&lt;br /&gt;
You go on from there, but it is only the same type of faulty logic used with an incomplete picture of actual history. You use selective facts in a subjective manner in order to prove your agenda that the Bible cannot be taken literally. What context are you trying to find these literal inconsistancies? The Creation, the Garden of Eden, the Flood, or the Exodus? These are the literal truths of the Bible. If you don't believe in the One that wrote the Bible then don't waste your time in finding any literal truth in it because you don't have the key.--[[User:Roopilots6|Roopilots6]] 19:26, 18 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Typical response. My main argument against a literal interpretation of the Bible is that &amp;quot;the One&amp;quot; didn't write the entire bible, which includes texts that were never meant to be incorporated with others. Also, the Bible as we knew it has gone through numerous translations; it wasn't originally written in English, because it didn't exist back then. Because of the multiple translations needed to get to English, all sense of context is lost since the original Aramic or Hebrew. A crude but effective test can be done on those free translations websites. Take a slang phrase (or any other phrase) such as &amp;quot;All dressed up and nowhere to go&amp;quot;, or something like that. Translate it from English to French, then French to German, then from German to English. You'll find that the new phrase has zero relationship with the original one. Admittedly, translation would be more sophisticated via the human element, but the point is the same. Nobody can accept a literal interpretation of the bible through the English version; the ONLY way to get an accurate interpretation of the Bible is through the original root languages. Otherwise, any literal interpretation is simply a fallacy. And I SINCERELY doubt that you have read the entire collected works of the Bible in its original Hebrew and Aramic. By the way, those websites do not describe how Jesus could have been the Messiah AND of virgin birth. He cannot be both, for if he is of immaculate conception, he doesn't meet the requirements of the prophecy in the Old Testament (on a side note, isn't it funny how god is much meaner and nastier in the Old Testament than in the New?). However, if he is descended from David through Joseph, making him the messiah, that denies a main tenet of Jesus being of immaculate conception. Ergo, it is silly and plain false to take a literal interpretation of the Bible, which was purely meant to describe a template for good and compassion in a world lacking those qualities. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 12:19, 20 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=114198</id>
		<title>Debate:Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Grave_errors/inconsistencies_in_the_Bible_make_literal_translation_worthless.&amp;diff=114198"/>
		<updated>2007-04-18T03:17:28Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: New page: The bible cannot truly be taken literally, because its facts contradict itself. Take the gospels of Luke and Matthew, for example. Matthew states that in the lineage between Jesus and Davi...&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;The bible cannot truly be taken literally, because its facts contradict itself. Take the gospels of Luke and Matthew, for example. Matthew states that in the lineage between Jesus and David there are 42 entires, and Luke proclaims only 27, and only three of them overlap. Obviously, both cannot be right, and cannot be used with literal conviction. Also, if Jesus is truly of virgin birth, then he cannot be the Messiah. The Old Testament clearly proclaims that the messiah must be David's descendant. Since Joseph was supposedly a descendant of David, this would make sense, but if he didn't shoot his DNA at Mary, then how can Jesus be the messiah at all? Something is clearly amiss here, and removes credibility from a literal bible. Finally, Matthew chronicles a census ordered by Caesar Augustus happening during the time that Mary and Joseph settled in Bethlehem. However, there were no censi taken at this time by Caesar Augustus. The closest on was done by Qurinin, and that was in 6 AD, no sooner. I question whether any of these bible literalists have actually read the bibles they claim dictate their lives, as if they did, they'd realize how truly ridiculous some of the errors are. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 23:17, 17 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Conservapedia:Debate_Topics&amp;diff=114182</id>
		<title>Conservapedia:Debate Topics</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Conservapedia:Debate_Topics&amp;diff=114182"/>
		<updated>2007-04-18T03:09:55Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;'''Debate topic suggestions, organized so that it's not necessary to delete them.'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
(Note: If some topic is miscategorized, it can be cut and pasted without affecting the relevant links.)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Philosophical debates==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:If there is no objective truth, then is the claim &amp;quot;there is no objective truth&amp;quot; also not an objective truth?|If there is no objective truth, then is the claim &amp;quot;there is no objective truth&amp;quot; also not an objective truth?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does History Matter?|Does History Matter?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is a first cause of a process necessary, always possible, or sometimes impossible?|Is a first cause of a process necessary, always possible, or sometimes impossible?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Can Objectivism develop beyond Ayn Rand's original formulation?|Can Objectivism develop beyond Ayn Rand's original formulation?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Can any man live without some code of morality?|Can any man live without some code of morality?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the universe include everything, or does something outside the universe exist?|Does the universe include everything, or does something outside the universe exist?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it easier to ask for permission, or for forgiveness?|Is it easier to ask for permission, or for forgiveness?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why is there something rather than nothing?|Why is there something rather than nothing?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Stem Cells| Stem Cells: Why or why not '''''(how long will this topic last??)''''']]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Religious debates==&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Grave errors/inconsistencies in the Bible make literal translation worthless.]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: 'το πνευμα ἁγιον'; how would you translate it?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Was Jesus born in the right time and place?| Was Jesus born in the right time and place?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If God does not exist, can anything be morally wrong?|If God does not exist, can anything be morally wrong?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Were the Puritans right to banish (expel) people for religious reasons?|Were the Puritans right to banish (expel) people for religious reasons?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is the Bible a reliable source of history against which one may check all other sources?|Is the Bible a reliable source of history against which one may check all other sources?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it wrong to have a Christmas tree?|Is it wrong to have a Christmas tree?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Did God create evil?|Did God create evil?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it possible to be both Jewish and Christian at the same time?|Is it possible to be both Jewish and Christian at the same time?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is the Pope the Antichrist?|Is the Pope the Antichrist?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Which Christian denomination is the most true to the central teachings of Christianity?|Which Christian denomination is the most true to the central teachings of Christianity?]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:If Jesus were alive to day, where on the political spectrum would he fall?|If Jesus were alive to day, where on the political spectrum would he fall?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should Religion Play a Large Role in Modern Societies?|Is religion relevant in todays society? / Should Religion Play a Large Role in Modern Societies?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Corinthians 11:14 and the traditional image of Jesus|Corinthians 11:14 and the traditional image of Jesus]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the Bible (Old and the New Testament) have the infallible words of God?|Bible (New and Old Testament) Words of God]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: AntiSemitism|AntiSemitism]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Does Intelligent Design deny the Existence of God?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Could God create a rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?|Could God create a rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If there were no religion, would we find another reason to kill each other?|If there were no religion, would we find another reason to kill each other?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Natural Disaster versus Act of God|Natural Disaster versus Act of God]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:What is the Sabbath day?|What is the Sabbath day?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it possible to be a conservative and not a religious person or even an atheist?|Is it possible to be a conservative and not a religious person or even an atheist?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Debate:Why do we still preform Baptisms?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does_the_Resurrection_negate_Gods_Sacrifice_of_his_only_son%3F|Does the Resurrection negate Gods Sacrifice of his only son?|Does the Resurrection negate God's Sacrifice of his only son?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If_most_Muslims_learned_their_religion_from_their_parents%2C_just_like_us_Christians%2C_they_will_probably_be_hard_to_convert._So_what_can_we_do_to_save_their_souls%3F|If most Muslims learned their religion from their parents, just like us Christians, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If_most_Christians_learned_their_religion_from_their_parents%2C_just_like_us_Muslims%2C_they_will_probably_be_hard_to_convert._So_what_can_we_do_to_save_their_souls%3F|If most Christians learned their religion from their parents, just like us Muslims, they will probably be hard to convert. So what can we do to save their souls?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does_mainstream_Islam_endorse_violence%3F|Does mainstream Islam endorse violence?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the Conservapedia entry for &amp;quot;Bible&amp;quot; need revision to clarify that The Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah of God and His Gospel and Church?|Does the Conservapedia entry for &amp;quot;Bible&amp;quot; need revision to clarify that The Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah of God and His Gospel and Church?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:On the issue of Jews/Jesus/Bible|On the issue of Jews/Jesus/Bible...]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is religion morally wrong?|Is religion morally wrong?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the Bible display poor ethics and morals?|Does the Bible display poor ethics and morals?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#[[Conservapedia:Why the Bible|What makes the Bible a reliable source of knowledge besides tradition?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why should we be afraid of God?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Do conservative Christians have an unquestioning faith which is comparable to that of the Party in the book 1984?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Antisemitism]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Are Christianity and the Bible superior to other religions and scriptures?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Is &amp;quot;Coercive Interrogation&amp;quot; consistent with Christian Values?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Political debates==&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Has Britain become the 51st State of the US?|Has Britian become the 51st State of the US?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:You think these Phd's are nuts?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the European Union pose a threat to the United States?| Does the European Union pose a threat to United States Security?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Which is true; progressive Liberal or regressive liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Define torture]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should the United States have entered World War I?|Should the United States have entered World War I?]] &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should the United States have entered World War II?|Should the United States have entered World War II?]]  &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should the United States have eliminated communism in North Korea|Should the United States have eliminated communism in North Korea as General Douglas MacArthur wanted?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Did racism play a role in the decision to drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?|Did racism play a role in the decision to drop atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Was the United States right to drop atomic bombs so quickly on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?|Was the United States right to drop atomic bombs so quickly on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Was it wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?|If President Roosevelt had known about the Pearl Harbor attack in advance, would it have been wrong for him to allow the attack in order to wake up the American public and motivate Americans to fight and win the war?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is gun-control the answer to crimes involving guns?|Is gun-control the answer to crimes involving guns?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Was world war inevitable?|Was world war inevitable?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Does &amp;quot;free trade&amp;quot; increase wealth rather than simply redistribute it?|Does &amp;quot;free trade&amp;quot; increase wealth or simply redistribute it?]]  &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is it even possible to install democracy in a Muslim country?|Is it even possible to install democracy in a Muslim country?]] &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is democracy even possible in Iraq?|Is democracy even possible in Iraq?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should President Jimmy Carter (at the urging of Henry Kissinger) have allowed the deposed Shah of Iran to enter the United States in 1979 to receive medical treatment, over the objections of the Iranian people?|Should President Jimmy Carter (at the urging of Henry Kissinger) have allowed the deposed Shah of Iran to enter the United States in 1979 to receive medical treatment, over the objections of the Iranian people?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should we have given the Panama Canal back to Panama?|Should we have given the Panama Canal back to Panama?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Are regulations by the government to keep private businesses in check necessary?|Should government allow an unchecked economy, or are regulations necessary in private business?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should the United States leave the United Nations?|Should the United States leave the United Nations?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Crusades... Good or Bad?|Crusades... Good or Bad?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Was American soldier Michael New right to refuse to fight wearing part of a United Nations uniform?|Was American soldier Michael New right to refuse to fight wearing part of a United Nations uniform?]]  See [[Michael New]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Which is a more powerful ideology, Islam or communism?|Which is a more powerful ideology, Islam or Communism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should the United States intervene in small countries to defeat communism there?|Should the United States intervene in small countries to defeat communism there?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should public displays of the 10 Commandments be allowed under the constitution?|Should public displays of the 10 Commandments be allowed under the constitution?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the high abortion rate among African Americans explain the quadruple extreme premature birth risk among the same population?|Does the high abortion rate among African Americans explain the quadruple extreme premature birth risk among the same population?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Was the third crusade successful?|Was the third crusade successful?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Which has the best philosophy of education: the public school system, private schools, or the home school movement?|Which has the best philosophy of education: the public school system, private schools, or the home school movement?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should people genetically engineer a cure for homosexuality?|Should people genetically engineer a cure for homosexuality?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should Bush pardon Scooter Libby?|Should Bush pardon Scooter Libby?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should the USA and other industrialized nations resume the building of nuclear power plants, an activity that is now effectively suspended?|Should the USA and other industrialized nations resume the building of nuclear power plants, an activity that is now effectively suspended?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should We Support Democrats For Life.org?|Should We Support Democrats For Life.org?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[conservapedia:Women in the Military?|Women in the Military?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Should students learn a foreign language?|Should students learn a foreign language?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why does the right side of the political spectrum tend to be more religous?|Why does the right side of the political spectrum tend to be more religous?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is Rush Limbaugh in touch with reality, or just an uneducated opinionated conservative mouthpiece ?|Is Rush Limbaugh in touch with reality, or just an uneducated opinionated conservative mouthpiece ?]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should there be a consistent standard on human rights applied to left and right?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should American companies be allowed to send their own troops into a war which America is participating in?|Should American companies be allowed to send their own troops into a war which America is participating in?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Giuliani's lack of social conservative viewpoints should not stop you from voting for him.|Giuliani's lack of social conservative viewpoints should not stop you from voting for him.]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Keep Richard Around?|Should Richard Stay?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is_President_Bush_good_for_America?|Is President Bush good for America?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is_the_Iraq_War_a_success%3F|Is the Iraq War a success?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does_single_sex_schooling_promotes_homesexuality%3F|Does Single sex schooling promotes homesexuality?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is_the_murder_of_3%2C000_people_just_a_few_or_is_it_a_lot%3F_Does_it_make_a_difference_if_the_murdered_people_are_Americans%3F|Is the murder of 3,000 people just a few or is it a lot? Does it make a difference if the murdered people are Americans?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does the media really have a liberal bias?|Does the media really have a liberal bias?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Two sides to a coin. The liberals use of Swift Boat]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Who was the last Democrat to quit due to ethics and what year was it? Is it fair for Republicans to due the same?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[What kind of leader will Democrats make if they run from debates on Fox?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Are the Democrats capable of fighting terrorism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Scientific debates==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that bigotry is a necessary self-defense mechanism?|Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that bigotry is a necessary self-defense mechanism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that homosexuality is bad for the survival of a species?|Does Darwinian natural selection suggest that homosexuality is bad for the survival of a species?]]  &lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is Darwinian natural selection compatible with Marxism?|Is Darwinian natural selection compatible with Marxism?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is the theory of macroevolution true?|Is the theory of macroevolution true?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Is Giving Birth the Bible Way Better?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Should Creationism/Intelligent design be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution in public schools?|Should Creationism/Intelligent design be taught as a scientific alternative to evolution in public schools?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is global warming evident, and if so, is this the fault of man, and how must man stop it?|Is global warming evident, and if so, is this the fault of man, and how must man stop it?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If the universe is young and it takes light millions of years to reach us from far off stars, how can we see them?|If the universe is young and it takes light millions of years to reach us from far off stars, how can we see them?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:God, Earth and Global Warming|God, Earth and Global Warming]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Why is the evidence in favor of evolution so darn convincing?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?|If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Do violent video games play a role in people on the edge of sanity?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Debates about Conservapedia==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# [[The liberal quotient of Conservapedia; what is it? Does it matter?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Does bias impair Wikipedia's reliability?|Does bias impair Wikipedia's reliability?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Should the term list entries be included in Conservapedia's entry count?|Should the term list entries be included in Conservapedia's entry count?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:How should Conservapedia work to avoid having a conservative bias?|How should Conservapedia work to avoid having a conservative bias?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Can Conservapedia Succeed?|Can Conservapedia Succeed?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Is Conservapedia fair and balanced?|Is Conservapedia fair and balanced?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:How can we protect Conservapedia by distinguishing real conservative encyclopedia articles from satires written by liberals?|How can we protect Conservapedia by distinguishing real conservative encyclopedia articles from satires written by liberals?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Do hardly any entries on conservapedia cite sources?|Do hardly any entries on conservapedia cite sources?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:A poll requested by Aschlafly regarding the new color format|A poll requested by Aschlafly regarding the new color format]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:What exactly is Conservapedia?|What exactly is Conservapedia?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia_Discussions#Quality_of_References|Quality of References]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Was the media attention needed?|Was the media attention needed?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is NPOV and wiki culture an example of a postmodern culture?|Is NPOV and wiki culture an example of a postmodern culture?]]&lt;br /&gt;
#  [[Conservapedia:Major bias in conservapedia]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia Debate Topics full of far left liberal netroots]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Which is true; progressive Liberal or regressive liberal]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Communists at Conservapedia|Should known communists be banned from editing at Conservapedia??]] &lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Where do you personally look for facts and information on topics &amp;quot;When did Brahms live&amp;quot; or &amp;quot;Why did Monet paint grainstacks?&amp;quot;]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is it okay for Conservapedia to have biased articles?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:On whether certain articles on human anatomy should be pre-emptively blanked and protected]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Who deletes entire discussion items from here?  And why?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Why do users, who contribute substantially, choose to leave this community?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Why do the creators of conservapeida see wikipedia as un-American?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Should I remove the gross Spanish profanity passing itself off as translations in several articles?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Is the use of copyrighted photographs without permission stealing?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Why do so many topical debates descend into embarassing personal attacks?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Funny, maybe?==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Fork or Spoon|Should chunky stew be eaten with a fork or a spoon?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Are cats just useless Dogs|Are cats just useless dogs?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Is the Platypus evidence that God has a sense of humour?|Is the Platypus evidence that God has a sense of humour?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Are we living in a computer simulation?| Are we living in a computer simulation?]]&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia: Was the shooting at Virginia Tech somehow President Bush's fault?|Was the shooting at Virginia Tech somehow President Bush's fault? (kind of like he caused hurricane Katrina)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Other==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
==Feel free to add additional debate topics.==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
To add a topic, edit this page, and enter a '#' followed by the topic title in double square brackets. Use a '|' to separate the link from the title.&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;lt;br /&amp;gt;For example:&lt;br /&gt;
 &amp;lt;nowiki&amp;gt;# [[Conservapedia:Fork or Spoon|Should chunky stew be eaten with a fork or a spoon?]]&amp;lt;/nowiki&amp;gt; &lt;br /&gt;
which will look like this:&lt;br /&gt;
# [[Conservapedia:Fork or Spoon|Should chunky stew be eaten with a fork or a spoon?]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Then you can click the link, and create the page when it isn't found.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
[[Category:Conservapedia Debates| ]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Does_the_Bible_(Old_and_the_New_Testament)_have_the_infallible_words_of_God%3F&amp;diff=114166</id>
		<title>Debate:Does the Bible (Old and the New Testament) have the infallible words of God?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Does_the_Bible_(Old_and_the_New_Testament)_have_the_infallible_words_of_God%3F&amp;diff=114166"/>
		<updated>2007-04-18T03:01:56Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Why were entries here deleted?  Who deleted them? [[User:Seekcommon]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So, Is the Bible infallible?  Should all Christians and Jews believe everything the Bible says and live by ALL it's rules?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Surely not. It is up to us as discerning people to pick and choose between the various statements and sentiments within the testaments to determine what is and isn't relevant today. For example, according to the [[capital punishment|article]], capital punishment is not generally supported by Christians for non-murder offenses, despite Exodus 21 listing its appropriateness for many more minor offenses. This means something very powerful. It means that we Christians cannot say &amp;quot;this is right because the Bible says so&amp;quot;, but have to say &amp;quot;this is right because I deem that passage still relevant&amp;quot;. It means we need to be responsible for our views. Thus the controversy over grey issues such as [[homosexuality]].   [[User:Proberts84|Proberts84]] 10:39, 14 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
: Then why is a section of the conservative community upset over Darwin and evolution and such?  Dismissing evolution as mere theory demonstrates a fundamental ignorance and illiteracy when it comes to science and theories and arguments.  Why does so much of science terrifies a significant fraction of the conservative movement? Is science a creation of the Devil then?  Was Darwin put on this earth by the Devil to confound God fearing humans?  Why did the Catholic Church persecute Galileo for saying the Earth goes round the Sun?  And why did it take them 300+ years to say &amp;quot;Sorry&amp;quot;?  It remains an issue of power and having people who can follow them no matter what and the Bible is held as that hammer to keep people down when needed.  [[User:Seekcommon|Seekcommon]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Absolutely. As a Christian, I would be the first to admit the hypocrisy of our faith over the last few centuries. The main reason for this, of course, is that the church is made up of many many people, each with their own viewpoint. I see no reason why the modern Catholic church should apologise for the treatment of Galileo, any more than Britain should apologise to the aboriginals of America and Australia, or for the burning of Protestants or Catholics under the respective Tudor king or queen of England. It is something done by our ancestors, and not by us. What matters is what we say today. There is no reason why science and religion can't coexist. I accept that almost all Christians no longer believe the early chapters of the Old Testament actually happened. They are, I believe, generally accepted to be metaphors - an easy handle for people to understand God's achievement in creating the World. In times gone by, this is illustrated nicely by the idea of Him creating everything in 6 days in nice stages. To the modern reader, this no longer makes sense (the concept of a day being a length of time before the Solar System was created is meaningless in itself). The modern thinker, then, can rejoice in God's creation of the Universe. The divine energy that created the big bang. The force that gave everything direction. The mind that thought through the rules of physics, and the purity of mathematics. The guiding hand that let today's species exist. The gifts of spirituality, of self-awareness, and the immortal soul. I think understanding more about the nature of the universe makes God seem all the more wonderful.  [[User:Proberts84|Proberts84]] 22:03, 14 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The bible simply cannot be taken literally, mostly because it contradicts itself everywhere. Let's look at the gospels of Luke and Matthew. One says Jesus' relation to David was 27 entries long, the other says 42. Also, the Old Testament clearly states that only a descendent of David can be Christ the messiah. Since Joseph supposedly possessed David in his lineage, and since Christ was of virgin birth, does this mean that Jesus was not the messiah? Also, what about the other gospels that aren't integrated into the bible, such as ones that describe Jesus mischievously casting spells on his friends and turning mud into birds. Additionally, the gospel of Matthew states that Mary and Joseph came to Bethlehem during one of Caesar Augustus' census activities. However, there was no census until 6 AD, and it was done by Qurinius, not Caesar Augustus. It's all just fairy tales, and poorly-integrated fairy tales at that as well.&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Was_Jesus_born_in_the_right_time_and_place%3F&amp;diff=114149</id>
		<title>Debate:Was Jesus born in the right time and place?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Was_Jesus_born_in_the_right_time_and_place%3F&amp;diff=114149"/>
		<updated>2007-04-18T02:50:20Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* No */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{debate}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Yes ==&lt;br /&gt;
Jesus, like all of us, was born at a time that best suited the plans of the Grand Architect. It is not God's fault we cannot yet understand those plans. [[User:Everwill|Everwill]] 13:59, 16 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== No ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Israel in 4 B.C. had no mass communication. Don't you get me wrong, though. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:49, 12 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(I only want to know) [[User:Human|Human]] 13:21, 15 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So if Jesus was born at the wrong time (4 B.C.), does this mean you think God made a mistake? --[[User:eyupdutch|eyupdutch]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think that if we were to say &amp;quot;Jesus was born at the wrong time&amp;quot;, we could immediately assume due to God's infallibility that our reasons for saying it are wrong.  Taking the example above, there must be a reason why the era of mass communication was not chosen for His incarnation.  We might never know it, though.  This argument really belongs above under &amp;quot;Yes&amp;quot;, but I wrote it as an answer here. [[User:Human|Human]] 13:21, 15 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: A point well made. As an atheist, I was using it as an example for the possible fallibility of God (Or Gods in general). Assuming his infallibility there must have been some reason why he chose to allow the rest of the world to live in ignorance until a sucession of violent empires spread (and continue to spread) his message of peace and love throughout the world. Rather than choosing to do it peacefully in an era of mass communication. I can't rationallise what this reason could possibly have been though... [[user:eyupdutch|eyupdutch]] 16 April 2007 09:38 (BST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::We could really use Jesus again right now... why only one visit? - BornAgainBrit&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I'm not an expert on this, but isn't He supposed to return one more time?  And as to the theology of &amp;quot;We could use Him now&amp;quot;, isn't he &amp;quot;with&amp;quot; anyone/everyone who accepts Him into their hearts as their saviour?  I guess there are also many stories in the Bible of the challenges to Faith and the obstacles in the Faithfuls' walk.  But as to your basic sentiment, yeah, I don't really think there has ever been a time that wouldn't possibly have been made better by His incarnate presence. [[User:Human|Human]] 11:41, 16 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Even when talking about Jesus, scripture is garbage. For example, the gospels of Matthew and Luke give two different lineages between David and Jesus (28 and 47, resp.) Also, they make reference to a census by Caesar Augustus around the time of Mary and Joseph's move to Bethlehem, but this never happened (There was a census by Qurinius, but it was in 6 AD). Also, in order for Jesus to be the messiah, he needs to be directly descended from David (Joseph's side), but if Mary was a virgin, how could Jesus fulfil the prophecy and actually be the messiah? Case in point, I'd be surprised if anything in scripture is accurate. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 22:50, 17 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Was_Jesus_born_in_the_right_time_and_place%3F&amp;diff=111313</id>
		<title>Debate:Was Jesus born in the right time and place?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Was_Jesus_born_in_the_right_time_and_place%3F&amp;diff=111313"/>
		<updated>2007-04-16T19:50:06Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* No */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{debate}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Yes ==&lt;br /&gt;
Jesus, like all of us, was born at a time that best suited the plans of the Grand Architect. It is not God's fault we cannot yet understand those plans. [[User:Everwill|Everwill]] 13:59, 16 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== No ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Israel in 4 B.C. had no mass communication. Don't you get me wrong, though. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 08:49, 12 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:(I only want to know) [[User:Human|Human]] 13:21, 15 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
So if Jesus was born at the wrong time (4 B.C.), does this mean you think God made a mistake? --[[User:eyupdutch|eyupdutch]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think that if we were to say &amp;quot;Jesus was born at the wrong time&amp;quot;, we could immediately assume due to God's infallibility that our reasons for saying it are wrong.  Taking the example above, there must be a reason why the era of mass communication was not chosen for His incarnation.  We might never know it, though.  This argument really belongs above under &amp;quot;Yes&amp;quot;, but I wrote it as an answer here. [[User:Human|Human]] 13:21, 15 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: A point well made. As an atheist, I was using it as an example for the possible fallibility of God (Or Gods in general). Assuming his infallibility there must have been some reason why he chose to allow the rest of the world to live in ignorance until a sucession of violent empires spread (and continue to spread) his message of peace and love throughout the world. Rather than choosing to do it peacefully in an era of mass communication. I can't rationallise what this reason could possibly have been though... [[user:eyupdutch|eyupdutch]] 16 April 2007 09:38 (BST)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:::We could really use Jesus again right now... why only one visit? - BornAgainBrit&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::::I'm not an expert on this, but isn't He supposed to return one more time?  And as to the theology of &amp;quot;We could use Him now&amp;quot;, isn't he &amp;quot;with&amp;quot; anyone/everyone who accepts Him into their hearts as their saviour?  I guess there are also many stories in the Bible of the challenges to Faith and the obstacles in the Faithfuls' walk.  But as to your basic sentiment, yeah, I don't really think there has ever been a time that wouldn't possibly have been made better by His incarnate presence. [[User:Human|Human]] 11:41, 16 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
''&amp;quot;We could really use Jesus again right now... why only one visit?&amp;quot;''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Funny how Jesus frees his followers from that nasty habit of cognitive thought and responsibility. &amp;quot;The world's a mess, so let's wait for Jesus.&amp;quot; Brilliant!&lt;br /&gt;
[[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 15:50, 16 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_theory_of_macroevolution_true%3F&amp;diff=111219</id>
		<title>Debate:Is the theory of macroevolution true?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_theory_of_macroevolution_true%3F&amp;diff=111219"/>
		<updated>2007-04-16T19:06:42Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* Yes */&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{debate-science}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Post Your Thoughts&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just like to point out that there is no theory of Macroevolution.  Macroevolution is just a discription of genetic drift over time to cause noticable genetic differences.  It is very missleading to have this labeled as a theory.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 11:46, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For my side (evolution), I have one site. Take a good long look at it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Yes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Arguments for * All life on Earth shares common ancestor &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*All life on Earth shares common ancestor&lt;br /&gt;
#All life on Earth shares molecular features.&lt;br /&gt;
#*'''Counter:'''  This is not a scientific argument for evolution.  First, this argument says nothing about a *process* of evolution.  It does not reveal any transitional forms between species, for examples.  In fact, lots of DNA evidence tends to disprove transitions from one species to another.  Second, there is no objective or scientific way to say one thing is like another.  If you insist there is, then you'd have to agree that intelligent design is science also.  Note, by the way, that all of Shakespeare's plays &amp;quot;share&amp;quot; similar features, but one play did not evolve by itself into another.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:54, 21 December 2006 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:'''  Poor argument. Shakespeare's plays are not capable of reproducing on their own. Reproduction is one cornerstone of evolution that sets living things and nonliving things apart.&lt;br /&gt;
#*:::What DNA evidence disproves transitions between species?    &lt;br /&gt;
##Same macromolecules (DNA, RNA, protein)&lt;br /&gt;
##Same monomers for those macromolecules (five nucleotides, twenty standard amino acids)&lt;br /&gt;
##Same chirality of molecules. DNA in all complex life forms is right-handed, research suggests[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&amp;amp;res=9802E1DB1F3DF936A15751C0A9659C8B63] that left-handed DNA would work just as well.&lt;br /&gt;
###If life forms did not have common ancestors we would expect to see a fairly even distribution of left and right handed DNA.&lt;br /&gt;
##Genetic system:&lt;br /&gt;
##*Ribosome structure&lt;br /&gt;
##*tRNA structure&lt;br /&gt;
##*The universal genetic code (and slight deviations from it)&lt;br /&gt;
##*Information encoded in nucleotide polymers (DNA or RNA).&lt;br /&gt;
#Differences between organisms can be explained by known mechanisms of genetic mutation.&lt;br /&gt;
#*'''Counter:''' There has not been enough time for mutation to generate existing biological diversity. &lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:''' Lateral gene transfer between viruses and bacteria to more complicated life forms has been proven to occur and can account for increased mutations over time.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 10:20, 19 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:''' There has been enough time enough time to generate existing biological diversity.&lt;br /&gt;
#***'''Counter:''' The time argument doesn't help.  Decay, scattering, extinction, defects, disasters, etc., all INCREASE over time.  Besides, all mutations are harmful.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:54, 21 December 2006 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Counter:''' Mutations are ''mostly'' harmful, but not always.&lt;br /&gt;
#*****'''Counter:''' Mutations are ''mostly'' inert.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 10:20, 19 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Additional Counter:'''Decay, scattering and defects are not part of the evolutionary theory. What proof is there that disasters increase over time? The increase of entropy in the universe is not even comparable to the process of evolution, which is the opposite of randomness. Evolution relies on natural selection, which as its name suggests, selects the best adapted organisms to reproduce, not random organisms.&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Additional Counter:''' Seedless watermelons are an example of a mutation, so is corn (it used to be tiny). There is no way to claim, let alone prove that all mutations are harmful.--[[User:ChrisF|ChrisF]]&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Counter:''' Being seedless is harmful to the watermelon. The fact that it may be helpful to people in no way proves that being seedless is helpful for the reproduction of the watermelon. --[[User:Me4real|Me4real]] 13:31, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
#*****'''Counter:''' On the contrary, mutations such as this are beneficial. To take another example, the chance mutation that caused the Banana to come in to existence has helped a single tree spread it's genetic material to most of the globe. Taking a narrow view of what is an evolutionary benefit is to fundamentally misunderstand evolution. An adaptation that causes a plant to establish a symbiotic relationship with the dominant species can be more helpful to a plant's survival than, say, one that helps it spread its seeds wider in the local area.&lt;br /&gt;
#******'''Counter:''' Beneficial to humans yes, but detrimental to future evolution and genetic diversity of the watermelon species. --[[User:KarmicNoose|KarmicNoose]] 14:41, 24 March 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
#*******But natural selection does not select features that increase diversity in a population; it selects features that increase the odds of reproduction in an individual—and preference by an agricultural species greatly increases an individual's odds of reproducing.--[[User:Άθεος|Άθεος]] 21:16, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Counter:''' Ginger/red hair in humans is an example of a harmless, recessive mutation.--&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
NATURAL genetic changes can only account for diversity within a species.  Mendellian genetics has demonstrated the existence of a closed field of genetic changes which can occur through the reproductive process.&lt;br /&gt;
#*'''Counter:''' Mendel's findings were incomplete, and were ignorant of certain structures such as chromosomes, or processes such as mutation.  The latter presents a perfectly viable way for an organism to receive genetic code not present in its parents.--[[User:Άθεος|Άθεος]] 21:23, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#*#The speed of evolution is measured by the [[w:Darwin (unit)|darwin]] (change in an organism's character by a factor of e per million years.) [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section5.html#morphological_rates] &lt;br /&gt;
#*#Evolution in the lab can be as high as 200,000 darwins.&lt;br /&gt;
#*#As measured by the fossil record, the average evolutionary rate in the wild is 370 darwins.&lt;br /&gt;
#*#A rate of 400 darwins is capable of turning a mouse into an elephant in just 10,000 years.&lt;br /&gt;
#*No other (non-human) process has been observed to generate biological diversity.&lt;br /&gt;
#*Extensive biological diversity existed before humans had the ability to create new forms by molecular recombination.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#*'''Counter:''' The argument concerning rate of change assumes that biological evolution is described by a linear equation.  However, observation and Mendellian genetics theory suggest that evolutionary change is better described by a rational function bounded by an assymptote.  For example, it is relatively easy to crossbreed a pure bred dog so that you obtain a mutt or a nearly pure bred dog of another breed.  However, it will take an infinite amount of time to entirely replace the traits of the original breed with those of the new breed- the graph of evolutionary change, with change on the y-axis and time on the x-axis, has reached a horizontal assymptote.  The dog remains a dog.&lt;br /&gt;
-Chris J&lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:'''Um, what? I'm a bit of a mathy person and have some background in genetics as well, and the above doesn't seem to be anything but an assertion dressed up in mathematical terminology. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 14:06, 13 February 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:'''If a DNA molecule was of infinate length this argument would stand.  Since DNA has a finite length it is entirely possible to remove all 'Mutt' genes from a heredetory family of dogs with selective breeding over time.  Because of recombinant DNA and meisis crossover it makes it unlikely to occur - but not impossible.  Joshua Z is correct, the maths is wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you look at the forms of virtually every animal alive today, the early embryo stages are virtually identical. This shows that they evolved from the same ancestor. If you look at the limbs of a lot of animals, and even the limbs of fossils, they have virtually the same structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find a surprisingly good argument supporting macroevolution is that of languages. For example, all modern Western languages are essentially derived from Latin. This is repeatedly indicated in the similarities of words between languages such as English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, etc. You could say that all languages are descended from Latin. Populations broke away from the &amp;quot;main&amp;quot; latin base, corrupting the original until, centuries later, we have dozens of unique languages that readily can be proven to have descended from Latin. The same basic principle applies to macroevolution. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 17:19, 14 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:This is a poor argument, since German and English did not descend from Latin.--[[User:Άθεος|Άθεος]] 19:55, 15 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not necessarily directly, but there are very similar grammatical structures and even entire words that are similar between the three languages (English, Latin, German)&lt;br /&gt;
[[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 15:06, 16 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Why_do_the_creators_of_Conservapedia_see_Wikipedia_as_un-American%3F&amp;diff=107226</id>
		<title>Debate:Why do the creators of Conservapedia see Wikipedia as un-American?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Why_do_the_creators_of_Conservapedia_see_Wikipedia_as_un-American%3F&amp;diff=107226"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T21:27:04Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;This is an honest question, although I can see why it could be seen as anti-christian i dont understand why it is seen as un-American&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Because Wikipedia posts so-called 'facts' that could be construed as making America (by which I mean 'Conservatives') look bad.  Obviously, it has an Anti-American Agenda!  (Insert obligatory [[Daily Show]] quote about the facts having an anti-Bush agenda here.)  --[[User:BobD|BobD]] 05:51, 14 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:: You imply the 'facts' are wrong and there is deliberate anti-American bias.  I read a lot of it, I am wondering if perhaps I am reading a different language, I do not see what you seem to see.  [[User:Seekcommon]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I'd like to see an eventual answer to this question. The Anti-American claim seemed a little loopy to me. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 17:27, 14 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_theory_of_macroevolution_true%3F&amp;diff=107198</id>
		<title>Debate:Is the theory of macroevolution true?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_theory_of_macroevolution_true%3F&amp;diff=107198"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T21:19:02Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{debate-science}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Post Your Thoughts&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just like to point out that there is no theory of Macroevolution.  Macroevolution is just a discription of genetic drift over time to cause noticable genetic differences.  It is very missleading to have this labeled as a theory.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 11:46, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For my side (evolution), I have one site. Take a good long look at it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
== Yes ==&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Arguments for * All life on Earth shares common ancestor &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
*All life on Earth shares common ancestor&lt;br /&gt;
#All life on Earth shares molecular features.&lt;br /&gt;
#*'''Counter:'''  This is not a scientific argument for evolution.  First, this argument says nothing about a *process* of evolution.  It does not reveal any transitional forms between species, for examples.  In fact, lots of DNA evidence tends to disprove transitions from one species to another.  Second, there is no objective or scientific way to say one thing is like another.  If you insist there is, then you'd have to agree that intelligent design is science also.  Note, by the way, that all of Shakespeare's plays &amp;quot;share&amp;quot; similar features, but one play did not evolve by itself into another.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:54, 21 December 2006 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:'''  Poor argument. Shakespeare's plays are not capable of reproducing on their own. Reproduction is one cornerstone of evolution that sets living things and nonliving things apart.&lt;br /&gt;
#*:::What DNA evidence disproves transitions between species?    &lt;br /&gt;
##Same macromolecules (DNA, RNA, protein)&lt;br /&gt;
##Same monomers for those macromolecules (five nucleotides, twenty standard amino acids)&lt;br /&gt;
##Same chirality of molecules. DNA in all complex life forms is right-handed, research suggests[http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&amp;amp;res=9802E1DB1F3DF936A15751C0A9659C8B63] that left-handed DNA would work just as well.&lt;br /&gt;
###If life forms did not have common ancestors we would expect to see a fairly even distribution of left and right handed DNA.&lt;br /&gt;
##Genetic system:&lt;br /&gt;
##*Ribosome structure&lt;br /&gt;
##*tRNA structure&lt;br /&gt;
##*The universal genetic code (and slight deviations from it)&lt;br /&gt;
##*Information encoded in nucleotide polymers (DNA or RNA).&lt;br /&gt;
#Differences between organisms can be explained by known mechanisms of genetic mutation.&lt;br /&gt;
#*'''Counter:''' There has not been enough time for mutation to generate existing biological diversity. &lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:''' Lateral gene transfer between viruses and bacteria to more complicated life forms has been proven to occur and can account for increased mutations over time.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 10:20, 19 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:''' There has been enough time enough time to generate existing biological diversity.&lt;br /&gt;
#***'''Counter:''' The time argument doesn't help.  Decay, scattering, extinction, defects, disasters, etc., all INCREASE over time.  Besides, all mutations are harmful.--[[User:Aschlafly|Aschlafly]] 23:54, 21 December 2006 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Counter:''' Mutations are ''mostly'' harmful, but not always.&lt;br /&gt;
#*****'''Counter:''' Mutations are ''mostly'' inert.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 10:20, 19 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Additional Counter:'''Decay, scattering and defects are not part of the evolutionary theory. What proof is there that disasters increase over time? The increase of entropy in the universe is not even comparable to the process of evolution, which is the opposite of randomness. Evolution relies on natural selection, which as its name suggests, selects the best adapted organisms to reproduce, not random organisms.&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Additional Counter:''' Seedless watermelons are an example of a mutation, so is corn (it used to be tiny). There is no way to claim, let alone prove that all mutations are harmful.--[[User:ChrisF|ChrisF]]&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Counter:''' Being seedless is harmful to the watermelon. The fact that it may be helpful to people in no way proves that being seedless is helpful for the reproduction of the watermelon. --[[User:Me4real|Me4real]] 13:31, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
#*****'''Counter:''' On the contrary, mutations such as this are beneficial. To take another example, the chance mutation that caused the Banana to come in to existence has helped a single tree spread it's genetic material to most of the globe. Taking a narrow view of what is an evolutionary benefit is to fundamentally misunderstand evolution. An adaptation that causes a plant to establish a symbiotic relationship with the dominant species can be more helpful to a plant's survival than, say, one that helps it spread its seeds wider in the local area.&lt;br /&gt;
#******'''Counter:''' Beneficial to humans yes, but detrimental to future evolution and genetic diversity of the watermelon species. --[[User:KarmicNoose|KarmicNoose]] 14:41, 24 March 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
#*******But natural selection does not select features that increase diversity in a population; it selects features that increase the odds of reproduction in an individual—and preference by an agricultural species greatly increases an individual's odds of reproducing.--[[User:Άθεος|Άθεος]] 21:16, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
#****'''Counter:''' Ginger/red hair in humans is an example of a harmless, recessive mutation.--&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
NATURAL genetic changes can only account for diversity within a species.  Mendellian genetics has demonstrated the existence of a closed field of genetic changes which can occur through the reproductive process.&lt;br /&gt;
#*'''Counter:''' Mendel's findings were incomplete, and were ignorant of certain structures such as chromosomes, or processes such as mutation.  The latter presents a perfectly viable way for an organism to receive genetic code not present in its parents.--[[User:Άθεος|Άθεος]] 21:23, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#*#The speed of evolution is measured by the [[w:Darwin (unit)|darwin]] (change in an organism's character by a factor of e per million years.) [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section5.html#morphological_rates] &lt;br /&gt;
#*#Evolution in the lab can be as high as 200,000 darwins.&lt;br /&gt;
#*#As measured by the fossil record, the average evolutionary rate in the wild is 370 darwins.&lt;br /&gt;
#*#A rate of 400 darwins is capable of turning a mouse into an elephant in just 10,000 years.&lt;br /&gt;
#*No other (non-human) process has been observed to generate biological diversity.&lt;br /&gt;
#*Extensive biological diversity existed before humans had the ability to create new forms by molecular recombination.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
#*'''Counter:''' The argument concerning rate of change assumes that biological evolution is described by a linear equation.  However, observation and Mendellian genetics theory suggest that evolutionary change is better described by a rational function bounded by an assymptote.  For example, it is relatively easy to crossbreed a pure bred dog so that you obtain a mutt or a nearly pure bred dog of another breed.  However, it will take an infinite amount of time to entirely replace the traits of the original breed with those of the new breed- the graph of evolutionary change, with change on the y-axis and time on the x-axis, has reached a horizontal assymptote.  The dog remains a dog.&lt;br /&gt;
-Chris J&lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:'''Um, what? I'm a bit of a mathy person and have some background in genetics as well, and the above doesn't seem to be anything but an assertion dressed up in mathematical terminology. [[User:JoshuaZ|JoshuaZ]] 14:06, 13 February 2007 (EST)&lt;br /&gt;
#**'''Counter:'''If a DNA molecule was of infinate length this argument would stand.  Since DNA has a finite length it is entirely possible to remove all 'Mutt' genes from a heredetory family of dogs with selective breeding over time.  Because of recombinant DNA and meisis crossover it makes it unlikely to occur - but not impossible.  Joshua Z is correct, the maths is wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
If you look at the forms of virtually every animal alive today, the early embryo stages are virtually identical. This shows that they evolved from the same ancestor. If you look at the limbs of a lot of animals, and even the limbs of fossils, they have virtually the same structure.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I find a surprisingly good argument supporting macroevolution is that of languages. For example, all modern Western languages are essentially derived from Latin. This is repeatedly indicated in the similarities of words between languages such as English, French, German, Spanish, Italian, etc. You could say that all languages are descended from Latin. Populations broke away from the &amp;quot;main&amp;quot; latin base, corrupting the original until, centuries later, we have dozens of unique languages that readily can be proven to have descended from Latin. The same basic principle applies to macroevolution. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 17:19, 14 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Conservapedia_fair_and_balanced%3F&amp;diff=107131</id>
		<title>Debate:Is Conservapedia fair and balanced?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Conservapedia_fair_and_balanced%3F&amp;diff=107131"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T21:01:19Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
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Since Conservapedia has been called unbalanced, I thought it would be good to start a discussion on this topic here in order to get a more varied opinion.{{Unsigned|Foo}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, that sounds fair.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]] 08:56, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:It seems to be horribly biased toward protest-antism. --[[User:Luke-Jr|Luke-Jr]] 10:42, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Yes==&lt;br /&gt;
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Wikipedia has a liberal bias. Wikipedia is anti-Christian and anti-American. We need for a new online encylodpaedia to balance that out. &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:HarryPalms|HarryPalms]]&lt;br /&gt;
::How is saying that it's biased in the opposite way to something else evidence that it is &amp;quot;fair and balanced&amp;quot;? You seem to be admitting that it is in fact neither [[User:Silverfish|Silverfish]] 16:56, 14 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:How can Wikipedia have a liberal bias?  Anyone can edit it and biased opinions are scrupulously edited out.  Conservapedia is not based on the principles of balanced scrutiny or honesty like Wikipedia is; it is just a place where conservatives can blast their misinformed opinions at other conservatives.  This is just like the pouty consevatives that run this country; if people dismiss their ridiculous anti-scientific, intolerant garbage, they whine about their critics being anti-Christian and go cry to the religious right.  Can any one of you name even one example of Wikipedia being biased? (note that being secular and listening to opinions outside America is not bias!)  &lt;br /&gt;
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No i contest that Conservapedia fair and balanced becuse unlike Conservapedia wikipedia is NOT ANTI CHRISTIAN ANTI AMERICAN OR LIBRIAL BUT INSTED IT TREATES ALL VEIWS EQUALLY AND I FIND ON THE CONTARY THAT THIS SITE IS BIASED AND TOO CHRISTIAN CENTERD AND ALSO I FIND THIS SITE OVERLY RESTRICTIVE ON LIBIRAL,REAL SCIENTIFIC AND NON CHRISTIAN VIEWS I ''DEFIENITLY PREFIER WIKIPEDIA FOR REFRENCE''. Note: this unsigned opinion was provided by someone with common sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Obviously.  This is an idea whose time has come.  I, for one, am sick and tired of the liberal bias in the media and online in Wikipedia.  This project is still young and the criticism and mockery of it by leftists in the blogosphere is getting old.  I pledge as a new editor to do what I can to help make Conservapedia the premier online encyclopedia it is destined to become.&lt;br /&gt;
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NOTE: The SHOUTER above me has commented in the wrong section so the opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. -- [[User:Bob Arctor|Bob Arctor]] 16:50, 17 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;We need for a new online encylodpaedia to balance that out.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
Fair and balanced? You've just indirecly admitted that you're saying two wrongs make a right. You cannot create a neutral opinion by balancing one biased opinion with another. HarryPalms, you are a shining example of how this site is far more guilty of the crimes you attribute to Wikipedia.&lt;br /&gt;
Also, if you read many (if not all) of the articles on Conservapedia, their first remarks are in some way tied to Christianity. That is probably the greatest possible bias you could create. It doesn't help that most Conservapedia articles on things such as Evolution and the Big Bang focus mostly on destroying belief in accepted theories, instead of creating new ones. Hmm... destroying, but creating nothing. That sounds more like Satan than any Antichrist conspiracy theory I've heard so far. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 16:54, 14 April 2007 (EDT)User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==No==&lt;br /&gt;
I am a little concerned with the fact that conservapedia users, such as they may be, don't realize that if they feel something is biased in wikipedia that they too can change it.  I find it a bit totalitarian that a number of entries on conservapedia are taken off and blocked, i.e. anything dealing with a sexual nature.  While I agree that there are very biased articles in wikipedia, the beauty of the system is such that anyone can change an article.  However, conservapedia deletes anything questionable. &lt;br /&gt;
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Seems to me to be quite biased. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 11:25, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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My initial reaction to the question: &amp;quot;AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!&amp;quot;. Speaking seriously: No, it's not. It's anything but fair and balanced. Edits that try to balance articles are reverted and often called vandalism or inappropriate. The fact that quite a few controversial articles are simply locked and then edited to support the view of radical conservatives/creationists/people who take the Bible literally doesn't exactly help. --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 11:48, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sid: can you give any examples of controversial articles that are locked??!! --[[User:Jlovesu|Jlovesu]] 12:41, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Theory of evolution]], [[Macroevolution]], [[Second Law of Thermodynamics]], [[Young Earth Creationism]]...are we seeing a pattern here, incidentally? [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 12:44, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:(Arr, edit-sniped by Tsumetai! But I'll post it anyway since it also shows some diffs that removed attempts at balance) Sure thing: [[Theory of Evolution]], [[Second Law of Thermodynamics]], [[Faith]], and that's without even checking the current Protection Log. The respective reverts that happened during the locking process: [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Theory_of_evolution&amp;amp;diff=16289&amp;amp;oldid=16283 Theory of Evolution], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Second_Law_of_Thermodynamics&amp;amp;diff=17856&amp;amp;oldid=17260 Second Law of Thermodynamics], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Faith&amp;amp;diff=16062&amp;amp;oldid=15845 Faith]. Theory of Evolution effectively became [[User:Conservative|Conservative's]] article and quickly evolved (Ha!) into a lengthy rant against evolution and the scientific community. The Second Law of Thermodynamics currently states that it ''disproves evolution'', and the Faith article was linked to from the front page with the words [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Newsline&amp;amp;diff=12709&amp;amp;oldid=11938 &amp;quot;Did you know that faith is a uniquely Christian concept?&amp;quot;]. All articles are currently locked.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::- Oooh ooh... also [[Fox News]]&lt;br /&gt;
::It's worth noting that when this issue is raised with the admins, we're usually told that we can bring up any problems with the articles on their talk pages. Take a look at, say, the 2nd law talk page to see just how well that works. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 13:01, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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As long as articles like the [[homosexual agenda]] page, and the [[Theory of Evolution]] page, and the [[abortion]] page exist, it will not be fair &amp;amp; balanced.  As long as I'm prevented from correcting blatant factual or legal errors, allowing the admins to represent as &amp;quot;facts&amp;quot; erroneous statements as to evolution, etc., it will not be fair &amp;amp; balanced.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for locked controversial articles, see any of the ones I noted above.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 12:45, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Can you explain how a theory is a &amp;quot;fact&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 13:00, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Same way anything else is. Massive amounts of supporting evidence. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 13:02, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::So then if a theory has facts to support it, it no longer is a theory.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 13:09, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::No, theories remain theories regardless of how strongly supported they are. 'Theory' and 'fact' are not mutually exclusive categories. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 13:12, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course Conservapedia is biased, and it always will be. It's a conservative Christian encyclopedia, so many will see it as a silly joke, while others (the 45% who believe the universe is 14,000 years old) will take it seriously, a la FOX News. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000CC&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;00FFAA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:02, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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This may come as a shock to many who peruse Conservapedia, but America is NOT the entire world. Most of the world doesn't even care what America thinks, and sees it largely as a joke. So citing the number of people in America who support literal biblical conservatism is silly, because even if it were all 300 million souls, it wouldn't make a lick of difference. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 17:01, 14 April 2007 (EDT)]]&lt;br /&gt;
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Not a damn chance. This is the biggest joke I've seen in years.&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you joking? The name itself betrays the fact that the site was deliberately set up to be biased. Pretending otherwise requires a tremendous effort of hypocrisy. [[User:Rjohnson|Rjohnson]] 08:49, 13 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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--&lt;br /&gt;
Its written by people of one political veiw and of one religion with very few sources, how can it possibly be unbiased. You only have to look at some of the articals to realise that, for example thier artical on the unicorn:&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;Secular opinion is that they are mythical&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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By secular you mean not christian i might point out, many other religions do not support the existance of unicorns.&lt;br /&gt;
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The image shown in that article i believe you will find most experts (aka Paleobiologists, not biblical experts) would call a &amp;quot;triceratops,&amp;quot; which fossil evidence has prooved pre-dates any known human existance, or infact any large primate existance.&lt;br /&gt;
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your section under evolution &amp;quot;Lack of Any Clear Transitional Forms,&amp;quot; dismisses some genetic possabilities that may explain the lack of transitional forms (for example polyploidy.) Also in the whole evolution article i could not see any quote which was pro evolution, weird since in my experiance most biologists DO believe in evolution.&lt;br /&gt;
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Also &amp;quot;However, young earth creationist scientists assert that there is an abundance of scientific arguments showing the earth and universe are both approximately 6,000 years in age.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Show me one peice of evidence or even moderate SCIENTIFIC (that doesnt include the bible) argument for the universe being this young that isnt an absolute joke!! Also i may point out that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the universe and the earth to be of the same age.&lt;br /&gt;
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Also in the &amp;quot;abortion&amp;quot; topic here i find a large section talking about large increases in risk of a woman getting breast cancer.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;The vast majority of scientific studies have shown that abortion causes an increase in breast cancer, including 16 out of 17 statistically significant studies&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
boasting 1 reference&lt;br /&gt;
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wikipedia:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The hypothesis garnered renewed interest from rat studies conducted in the 1980s,[34][35][36] however, it has not been scientifically verified in humans, and abortion is not considered a breast cancer risk by any major cancer organization.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
3 references from a respected journal.&lt;br /&gt;
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Think point made?&lt;br /&gt;
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Conservapedia isnt just unfair, unbalanced, biased, it is a complete joke!&lt;br /&gt;
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Wikipedia on the other hand is often sourced and written by a large number of people of different opinions! (by the way the people: something not agreeing with you 100% does not count as biased)&lt;br /&gt;
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Not only is conservapedia biased it lacks information. your article on genetics literally reads &amp;quot;The science that studies how characteristics get passed from parent to offspring.&amp;quot; Personly i find most of your articles close to useless, especially on science.&lt;br /&gt;
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Those are a few examples of articles here i believe to be very biased, im confident there are more. However some articles on here i was suprised to find were not as biased as the above, for example the Creationist and Theistic Evolutionary Views, in the big bang article.&lt;br /&gt;
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No i contest that Conservapedia fair and balanced becuse unlike Conservapedia wikipedia is NOT ANTI CHRISTIAN ANTI AMERICAN OR LIBRIAL BUT INSTED IT TREATES ALL VEIWS EQUALLY AND I FIND ON THE CONTARY THAT THIS SITE IS BIASED AND TOO CHRISTIAN CENTERD AND ALSO I FIND THIS SITE OVERLY RESTRICTIVE ON LIBIRAL,REAL SCIENTIFIC AND NON CHRISTIAN VIEWS I ''DEFIENITLY PREFIER WIKIPEDIA FOR REFRENCE''.--[[User:Devout evolutionist|Devout evolutionist]] 19:31, 15 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Obviously, it can't be Fair and Balanced [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_and_Balanced (R)]unless it's affiliated with News Corp. [[User:WikiG33K|WikiG33K]] 19:36, 15 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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This may not be the perfect forum for this, but I am not sure how to start a new thread..&lt;br /&gt;
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Conservapedia claims that Wikipedia is six times more liberal than the public at large. This is based on the % of self identifying Wikipedia contributors who claim to be liberal vs. the number in society in general.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are two problems with this... This first is mathematical. If Wikipedia is Liberal 3:1 vs. Conservative that means 75% liberal vs. 25% conservative. If the public at large is 2:1 conservative (1:2) liberal, then 33% of the population is liberal and 67% is conservative. The difference between 75% liberal and 33% liberal is not  factor of six, in fact it's less than 3...&lt;br /&gt;
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Second problem, identifying the personal beliefs of a person does not measure the amount of bias they introduce. If a hard core prius driving Susan Sarandon fan writes a Wikipedia entry on The Napa Valley and describes the location, geography, climate, and history accurately, where is the bias? Everyone has a personal political stance left, right or somewhere in between. That is a far cry from suggesting that everything they believe is tainted by that belief.&lt;br /&gt;
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Otherwise the largely conservative crowd online here would be forced to display  conservative bias, based on THEIR beliefs...&lt;br /&gt;
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Citizzzen 03.15.07&lt;br /&gt;
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I have thought about the math here, and I am wrong. I have not multiplied fractions in years. However, if America is 2:1 Conservtive and Wikipedia is 1:3 then 1/3 times x = 2. The answer would be 6 as originally stated. I concede the math point. I was wrong. Citizzzen 03.17.07&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course it's biased. Even the name suggests a right-winged bias! [[The Theory of Evolution]] page shows NOTHING supporting the theory, wheras Wikipedia shows BOTH sides of the arguments and uses citations and proof. Using the above figures, If 67% of the population is Conservative, and 33% is Liberal, then surely the laws of statistics state that more Conservatives would use Wikipedia... Or perhaps it's just that the Liberal demographic is more aligned with the intellectual, freethinking people who tend to use the web.&lt;br /&gt;
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conservapedia is about as fair and balanced as Bill O'Rielly is, and if wikipedia is &amp;quot; liberal&amp;quot;, liberal must mean based in reality.&lt;br /&gt;
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Conservapedia states its bias right in its own name. forcing all articles to be 'clean' and conservative makes you bias, duh. Not everything in the world is 'clean' as you want it to be, and trying to hide it is sad and wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
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Biased. Wikipedia is not anti-American. Wikipedia is not anti-Christian. Conservapedia: The name says it all. Go to talkorigins.org, and go to the creationist claims. The Bible is faith, evolution is a fact. I found there that a new species has evolved in our time: some mosquito.&lt;br /&gt;
:Gees that was easy; you wanna buy some land in Florida?  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 17:58, 8 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
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		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Conservapedia_fair_and_balanced%3F&amp;diff=107110</id>
		<title>Debate:Is Conservapedia fair and balanced?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_Conservapedia_fair_and_balanced%3F&amp;diff=107110"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T20:54:54Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* Yes */&lt;/p&gt;
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Since Conservapedia has been called unbalanced, I thought it would be good to start a discussion on this topic here in order to get a more varied opinion.{{Unsigned|Foo}}&lt;br /&gt;
:Well, that sounds fair.--[[User:TerryH|TerryH]] 08:56, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:It seems to be horribly biased toward protest-antism. --[[User:Luke-Jr|Luke-Jr]] 10:42, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Yes==&lt;br /&gt;
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Wikipedia has a liberal bias. Wikipedia is anti-Christian and anti-American. We need for a new online encylodpaedia to balance that out. &lt;br /&gt;
[[User:HarryPalms|HarryPalms]]&lt;br /&gt;
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:How can Wikipedia have a liberal bias?  Anyone can edit it and biased opinions are scrupulously edited out.  Conservapedia is not based on the principles of balanced scrutiny or honesty like Wikipedia is; it is just a place where conservatives can blast their misinformed opinions at other conservatives.  This is just like the pouty consevatives that run this country; if people dismiss their ridiculous anti-scientific, intolerant garbage, they whine about their critics being anti-Christian and go cry to the religious right.  Can any one of you name even one example of Wikipedia being biased? (note that being secular and listening to opinions outside America is not bias!)  &lt;br /&gt;
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No i contest that Conservapedia fair and balanced becuse unlike Conservapedia wikipedia is NOT ANTI CHRISTIAN ANTI AMERICAN OR LIBRIAL BUT INSTED IT TREATES ALL VEIWS EQUALLY AND I FIND ON THE CONTARY THAT THIS SITE IS BIASED AND TOO CHRISTIAN CENTERD AND ALSO I FIND THIS SITE OVERLY RESTRICTIVE ON LIBIRAL,REAL SCIENTIFIC AND NON CHRISTIAN VIEWS I ''DEFIENITLY PREFIER WIKIPEDIA FOR REFRENCE''. Note: this unsigned opinion was provided by someone with common sense.&lt;br /&gt;
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Obviously.  This is an idea whose time has come.  I, for one, am sick and tired of the liberal bias in the media and online in Wikipedia.  This project is still young and the criticism and mockery of it by leftists in the blogosphere is getting old.  I pledge as a new editor to do what I can to help make Conservapedia the premier online encyclopedia it is destined to become.&lt;br /&gt;
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NOTE: The SHOUTER above me has commented in the wrong section so the opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. -- [[User:Bob Arctor|Bob Arctor]] 16:50, 17 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;We need for a new online encylodpaedia to balance that out.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
Fair and balanced? You've just indirecly admitted that you're saying two wrongs make a right. You cannot create a neutral opinion by balancing one biased opinion with another. HarryPalms, you are a shining example of how this site is far more guilty of the crimes you attribute to Wikipedia.&lt;br /&gt;
Also, if you read many (if not all) of the articles on Conservapedia, their first remarks are in some way tied to Christianity. That is probably the greatest possible bias you could create. It doesn't help that most Conservapedia articles on things such as Evolution and the Big Bang focus mostly on destroying belief in accepted theories, instead of creating new ones. Hmm... destroying, but creating nothing. That sounds more like Satan than any Antichrist conspiracy theory I've heard so far. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 16:54, 14 April 2007 (EDT)User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==No==&lt;br /&gt;
I am a little concerned with the fact that conservapedia users, such as they may be, don't realize that if they feel something is biased in wikipedia that they too can change it.  I find it a bit totalitarian that a number of entries on conservapedia are taken off and blocked, i.e. anything dealing with a sexual nature.  While I agree that there are very biased articles in wikipedia, the beauty of the system is such that anyone can change an article.  However, conservapedia deletes anything questionable. &lt;br /&gt;
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Seems to me to be quite biased. [[User:Linus M.|Geekman314]]&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;([[User talk:Linus M.|contact me]])&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 11:25, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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My initial reaction to the question: &amp;quot;AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!&amp;quot;. Speaking seriously: No, it's not. It's anything but fair and balanced. Edits that try to balance articles are reverted and often called vandalism or inappropriate. The fact that quite a few controversial articles are simply locked and then edited to support the view of radical conservatives/creationists/people who take the Bible literally doesn't exactly help. --[[User:Sid 3050|Sid 3050]] 11:48, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Sid: can you give any examples of controversial articles that are locked??!! --[[User:Jlovesu|Jlovesu]] 12:41, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:[[Theory of evolution]], [[Macroevolution]], [[Second Law of Thermodynamics]], [[Young Earth Creationism]]...are we seeing a pattern here, incidentally? [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 12:44, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:(Arr, edit-sniped by Tsumetai! But I'll post it anyway since it also shows some diffs that removed attempts at balance) Sure thing: [[Theory of Evolution]], [[Second Law of Thermodynamics]], [[Faith]], and that's without even checking the current Protection Log. The respective reverts that happened during the locking process: [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Theory_of_evolution&amp;amp;diff=16289&amp;amp;oldid=16283 Theory of Evolution], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Second_Law_of_Thermodynamics&amp;amp;diff=17856&amp;amp;oldid=17260 Second Law of Thermodynamics], [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Faith&amp;amp;diff=16062&amp;amp;oldid=15845 Faith]. Theory of Evolution effectively became [[User:Conservative|Conservative's]] article and quickly evolved (Ha!) into a lengthy rant against evolution and the scientific community. The Second Law of Thermodynamics currently states that it ''disproves evolution'', and the Faith article was linked to from the front page with the words [http://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Template:Newsline&amp;amp;diff=12709&amp;amp;oldid=11938 &amp;quot;Did you know that faith is a uniquely Christian concept?&amp;quot;]. All articles are currently locked.&lt;br /&gt;
:::::- Oooh ooh... also [[Fox News]]&lt;br /&gt;
::It's worth noting that when this issue is raised with the admins, we're usually told that we can bring up any problems with the articles on their talk pages. Take a look at, say, the 2nd law talk page to see just how well that works. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 13:01, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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As long as articles like the [[homosexual agenda]] page, and the [[Theory of Evolution]] page, and the [[abortion]] page exist, it will not be fair &amp;amp; balanced.  As long as I'm prevented from correcting blatant factual or legal errors, allowing the admins to represent as &amp;quot;facts&amp;quot; erroneous statements as to evolution, etc., it will not be fair &amp;amp; balanced.&lt;br /&gt;
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As for locked controversial articles, see any of the ones I noted above.--[[User:AmesG|AmesG]] 12:45, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
:Can you explain how a theory is a &amp;quot;fact&amp;quot;?  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 13:00, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Same way anything else is. Massive amounts of supporting evidence. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 13:02, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::So then if a theory has facts to support it, it no longer is a theory.  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 13:09, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::::No, theories remain theories regardless of how strongly supported they are. 'Theory' and 'fact' are not mutually exclusive categories. [[User:Tsumetai|Tsumetai]] 13:12, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course Conservapedia is biased, and it always will be. It's a conservative Christian encyclopedia, so many will see it as a silly joke, while others (the 45% who believe the universe is 14,000 years old) will take it seriously, a la FOX News. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000CC&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;00FFAA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 13:02, 12 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Not a damn chance. This is the biggest joke I've seen in years.&lt;br /&gt;
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Are you joking? The name itself betrays the fact that the site was deliberately set up to be biased. Pretending otherwise requires a tremendous effort of hypocrisy. [[User:Rjohnson|Rjohnson]] 08:49, 13 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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--&lt;br /&gt;
Its written by people of one political veiw and of one religion with very few sources, how can it possibly be unbiased. You only have to look at some of the articals to realise that, for example thier artical on the unicorn:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;Secular opinion is that they are mythical&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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By secular you mean not christian i might point out, many other religions do not support the existance of unicorns.&lt;br /&gt;
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The image shown in that article i believe you will find most experts (aka Paleobiologists, not biblical experts) would call a &amp;quot;triceratops,&amp;quot; which fossil evidence has prooved pre-dates any known human existance, or infact any large primate existance.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
your section under evolution &amp;quot;Lack of Any Clear Transitional Forms,&amp;quot; dismisses some genetic possabilities that may explain the lack of transitional forms (for example polyploidy.) Also in the whole evolution article i could not see any quote which was pro evolution, weird since in my experiance most biologists DO believe in evolution.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also &amp;quot;However, young earth creationist scientists assert that there is an abundance of scientific arguments showing the earth and universe are both approximately 6,000 years in age.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
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Show me one peice of evidence or even moderate SCIENTIFIC (that doesnt include the bible) argument for the universe being this young that isnt an absolute joke!! Also i may point out that it is IMPOSSIBLE for the universe and the earth to be of the same age.&lt;br /&gt;
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Also in the &amp;quot;abortion&amp;quot; topic here i find a large section talking about large increases in risk of a woman getting breast cancer.&lt;br /&gt;
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&amp;quot;The vast majority of scientific studies have shown that abortion causes an increase in breast cancer, including 16 out of 17 statistically significant studies&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
boasting 1 reference&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
wikipedia:&lt;br /&gt;
&amp;quot;The hypothesis garnered renewed interest from rat studies conducted in the 1980s,[34][35][36] however, it has not been scientifically verified in humans, and abortion is not considered a breast cancer risk by any major cancer organization.&amp;quot;&lt;br /&gt;
3 references from a respected journal.&lt;br /&gt;
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Think point made?&lt;br /&gt;
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Conservapedia isnt just unfair, unbalanced, biased, it is a complete joke!&lt;br /&gt;
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Wikipedia on the other hand is often sourced and written by a large number of people of different opinions! (by the way the people: something not agreeing with you 100% does not count as biased)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Not only is conservapedia biased it lacks information. your article on genetics literally reads &amp;quot;The science that studies how characteristics get passed from parent to offspring.&amp;quot; Personly i find most of your articles close to useless, especially on science.&lt;br /&gt;
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Those are a few examples of articles here i believe to be very biased, im confident there are more. However some articles on here i was suprised to find were not as biased as the above, for example the Creationist and Theistic Evolutionary Views, in the big bang article.&lt;br /&gt;
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No i contest that Conservapedia fair and balanced becuse unlike Conservapedia wikipedia is NOT ANTI CHRISTIAN ANTI AMERICAN OR LIBRIAL BUT INSTED IT TREATES ALL VEIWS EQUALLY AND I FIND ON THE CONTARY THAT THIS SITE IS BIASED AND TOO CHRISTIAN CENTERD AND ALSO I FIND THIS SITE OVERLY RESTRICTIVE ON LIBIRAL,REAL SCIENTIFIC AND NON CHRISTIAN VIEWS I ''DEFIENITLY PREFIER WIKIPEDIA FOR REFRENCE''.--[[User:Devout evolutionist|Devout evolutionist]] 19:31, 15 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Obviously, it can't be Fair and Balanced [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_and_Balanced (R)]unless it's affiliated with News Corp. [[User:WikiG33K|WikiG33K]] 19:36, 15 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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This may not be the perfect forum for this, but I am not sure how to start a new thread..&lt;br /&gt;
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Conservapedia claims that Wikipedia is six times more liberal than the public at large. This is based on the % of self identifying Wikipedia contributors who claim to be liberal vs. the number in society in general.&lt;br /&gt;
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There are two problems with this... This first is mathematical. If Wikipedia is Liberal 3:1 vs. Conservative that means 75% liberal vs. 25% conservative. If the public at large is 2:1 conservative (1:2) liberal, then 33% of the population is liberal and 67% is conservative. The difference between 75% liberal and 33% liberal is not  factor of six, in fact it's less than 3...&lt;br /&gt;
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Second problem, identifying the personal beliefs of a person does not measure the amount of bias they introduce. If a hard core prius driving Susan Sarandon fan writes a Wikipedia entry on The Napa Valley and describes the location, geography, climate, and history accurately, where is the bias? Everyone has a personal political stance left, right or somewhere in between. That is a far cry from suggesting that everything they believe is tainted by that belief.&lt;br /&gt;
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Otherwise the largely conservative crowd online here would be forced to display  conservative bias, based on THEIR beliefs...&lt;br /&gt;
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Citizzzen 03.15.07&lt;br /&gt;
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I have thought about the math here, and I am wrong. I have not multiplied fractions in years. However, if America is 2:1 Conservtive and Wikipedia is 1:3 then 1/3 times x = 2. The answer would be 6 as originally stated. I concede the math point. I was wrong. Citizzzen 03.17.07&lt;br /&gt;
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Of course it's biased. Even the name suggests a right-winged bias! [[The Theory of Evolution]] page shows NOTHING supporting the theory, wheras Wikipedia shows BOTH sides of the arguments and uses citations and proof. Using the above figures, If 67% of the population is Conservative, and 33% is Liberal, then surely the laws of statistics state that more Conservatives would use Wikipedia... Or perhaps it's just that the Liberal demographic is more aligned with the intellectual, freethinking people who tend to use the web.&lt;br /&gt;
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conservapedia is about as fair and balanced as Bill O'Rielly is, and if wikipedia is &amp;quot; liberal&amp;quot;, liberal must mean based in reality.&lt;br /&gt;
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Conservapedia states its bias right in its own name. forcing all articles to be 'clean' and conservative makes you bias, duh. Not everything in the world is 'clean' as you want it to be, and trying to hide it is sad and wrong.&lt;br /&gt;
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Biased. Wikipedia is not anti-American. Wikipedia is not anti-Christian. Conservapedia: The name says it all. Go to talkorigins.org, and go to the creationist claims. The Bible is faith, evolution is a fact. I found there that a new species has evolved in our time: some mosquito.&lt;br /&gt;
:Gees that was easy; you wanna buy some land in Florida?  [[User:RobS|RobS]] 17:58, 8 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:If_the_Bible_didn%27t_contain_a_creation_story,_would_anyone_even_consider_the_idea_of_a_young_earth%3F&amp;diff=107073</id>
		<title>Debate:If the Bible didn't contain a creation story, would anyone even consider the idea of a young earth?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:If_the_Bible_didn%27t_contain_a_creation_story,_would_anyone_even_consider_the_idea_of_a_young_earth%3F&amp;diff=107073"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T20:37:44Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: /* YES! */&lt;/p&gt;
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In other words, if the Bible started with the story of Abraham and never mentioned how the earth was created, would anyone consider the idea that the earth was not millions of years old?  Or does a desire to prove the Bible correct form the basis of creation science? [[User:Czolgolz|Czolgolz]] 08:49, 3 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==YES!==&lt;br /&gt;
Young earth is a fact that is validated by an unbiased and accurate assesment of the evidence.  The bible may have provided the clues but it stands on its own.[[User:Rebiu|Rebiu]] 14:44, 6 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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No, it's not. If it were, then it would be the scientific consensus regarding the interpretation of the evidence. It isn't, purely for the reason that that is not what the evidence indicates. [[[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]] 16:37, 14 April 2007 (EDT)User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]]&lt;br /&gt;
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==No!==&lt;br /&gt;
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In the bible, outside of Genesis, God rhetorically inquires of Job if he was present when God laid the foundations of the Earth, and the theological point he is trying to make is that the earth predates man by many years and includes wonders and mysteries that Job could not even begin to imagine.  Based on this evidence, it is likely that an old earth doctrine would have been established. [[User:Teresita|Teresita]] 07:28, 4 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Comments==&lt;br /&gt;
The questions seem to contradict eachother, so I'll post here.  If there was no creation story, then the literal biblists wouldn't immediately throw out all the scientific evidence of evolution.  Most likely they'd accept it and go on with their lives.  But since the story does exist, they feel it necessary to accept this as the literal truth and refuse to believe anything contrary to what they read. [[User:Jrssr5|Jrssr5]] 09:16, 3 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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==Yes, but not anymore==&lt;br /&gt;
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I think that prior to ways of interpreting the evidence that led to the understanding of a very old earth, most cultures would not have thought the earth was much older than their oldest records or legends - they would have no reason to do so.  With modern scientific interpretations and more evidence of an old earth, a literal interpretation of the Creation in Genesis becomes more difficult to hold, and if it were not there (the Creation story), even fundamental literalists would have no reason not to accept that God made the earth a lot longer ago then previously thought. [[User:Human|Human]] 18:04, 9 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_evidence_in_favor_of_evolution_convincing%3F&amp;diff=107068</id>
		<title>Debate:Is the evidence in favor of evolution convincing?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_evidence_in_favor_of_evolution_convincing%3F&amp;diff=107068"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T20:34:13Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
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I try and try to hold on to the truth I was taught by my family and the church, but the more I read and learn, the more strongly I become convinced - as if involuntarily - that Darwin, Dawkins and the rest of them are right. Is this Satan tempting me? What should I do to rid myself of the growing conviction that creationism is nonsense spun up by bigots to justify their social status?&lt;br /&gt;
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creationism is used to promote the idea that &amp;quot; god' created everything, that is why there is a 6,000 year timeline generally cited. By as the proof of creationism is debunked, new ideas to try and cover the flaws in the creationism are floated, enter intelligent design. I'm sure that will be proved false too.&lt;br /&gt;
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Science works best when theories are attacked - since it brings change, improves old theories or replaces them.  &amp;quot;Falsifiability&amp;quot; remains the hallmark.  Nothing is immune and so is subject to change because of new information and potentially new interpretation.  The more vigorously evolution is attacked, the better it's position gets as the years go by - the attacks are so transparently terrible that it only serves to advance the very cause of science and the scientific process.  It is not possible to continue to build a case against evolution using arguments that cannot be sustained except in those minds that will refuse to accept anything that contradicts what they fervently believe.  The debate continues.  That it is not necessary to attack evolution as a way to justify the presence of God is amply demonstrated by Francis Collins in his latest book &amp;quot;Language of God&amp;quot; or Kenneth R. Miller's &amp;quot;Finding Darwin's God&amp;quot; (and his articles).  Perhaps many who were never aware of what evolution really is, may now make themselves aware - in trying to understand why there is so much venom against it.  I mean, if something is being attacked so vigorously, it will pique more interest.  So, bring it on.&lt;br /&gt;
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The theory of evolution is just that, a theory.  It has not been proved and it never will be.  There is no need to investigate this topic using &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; when it is clearly answered in Genesis.  Furthermore, science is a manifestation of the devil fabricated to undermine God and his beautiful gift to all mankind.  My advice to you my Christian brother is: Love your god and your country in that order and never doubt the decisions of either.&lt;br /&gt;
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: It's true, evolution is a theory.  There are some other theories that you may have heard about.  Theory of electromagnetic radiation and Maxwell's equation, theories that describe how electrons move and behave and ofcourse Einstein's Special and General Theory of Relativity.  The internet and browsers and tcp/ip and dhcp and cable modems and phones and dsl are all completely unrelated to science and engineering advancements.  Even these words are only a figment of your imagination.&lt;br /&gt;
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:I think you may want to see [[Theistic Evolution]], the belief that Evolution took place, but God intervened to give humans souls, etc. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000CC&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;00FFAA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:27, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yes the theory of evolution is just that, a theory, so is gravity. You are right the theory will never be proven, theories are never proven, just tested until they are rendered false.  What I do not understand is your statement about science being a manifestation of the devil, are people in the US that uneducated?  Science is about finding logical reasons to what is observed.  If someone were to tell you that the sun is blue, and you looked up to see the color then checked what you knew to be shades of yellow, just to make sure you were not confused about color, you would be using science.  Perhaps you should think on this, also please post your name, Bart2461, it is rude to not do so.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 14:44, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Actually, as this is a sort of Essay, it is not customary to sign your name. In fact, discussion should be taking place on the discussion page, rather than on the actual page. [[User:GofG | GofG]] [[Special:Contributions/GofG|&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;]] [[User talk:GofG | Talk]] 16:35, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: If God is benevolent, then He is not trying to trick you with what you see in the world around you.  What you read in the Old Testament and Genesis is written by people with the same basic mindset as those who wrote about Egyptian gods and their creation stories, or Greek gods and their creation stories, or Hindu gods and their creation stories.  They were trying to describe the world as best they can.  Is it necessary that any of these be ''literally'' true?  Or is it more of a way that each ancient culture justifies their connection to their gods?  Think about what is necessary for salvation - is it a literal reading of Genesis? or belief in Jesus?  --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 17:42, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: The urge to believe in somethings are so strong that no matter how many contradictions may exist, there is reluctance to accept that.  Peter McWilliams in his book &amp;quot;It's No ones Business if you do&amp;quot; argues persuasively as to how, when examined the context of the time when it was written (like so many books in the history of man) the Bible does contain time immemorial words of wisdom and help.  It is scary for many to imagine that such words of wisdom are in fact found in many different parts of the world in different ways and published in many ways.  The refusal to see anything other than what one believes is what has led to the many horrors of man's inhumanity to man. -- [[User:kchittur|kchittur]] 21:50 (CDT) 22 March 2007&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Evolution is so darn convincing because it is happening today.  Life evolves to fit changing conditions of weather as science has shown us by carefully monitoring the life cycle of certain insects in northern Canada who are breeding a few weeks differently because of global warming.  BUT, the question is not, &amp;quot;Does evolution happen&amp;quot; because it does.  Instead, the question is: &amp;quot;Did man evolve from a batch of chemicals&amp;quot;.  The first point is not completely understood because we view a tiny slice of time.  Our lack of complete understanding does not let us predict with certainty whether  man evolved from a batch of hot chemicals within Earth's history. [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 11:52, 23 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
'''Because it is a Fact'''&lt;br /&gt;
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Evolution is the most verified, validated, proven, observed and observable scientific theories.  Only those with an obvious agenda and willful ignorance in the face of clear concise proof still attempt to deny it.&lt;br /&gt;
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Science and scientists understand what &amp;quot;theory&amp;quot; means.  Even though scientists can write ad-nauseam about evidence pointing out to why evolution is supported by evidence, there will always be someone, somewhere pointing out some obscure item/fact that does not seem to agree with existing theories - and instead of asking for a revision of parts of the theory, want to throw the entire thing over ... Oh, yes, the alternatives offered cannot be challenged since the proof of the alternatives (whatever that may be) is axiomatic and consequently do not need anything resembling proof in the way science/scientists understand.  Fear pervades a segment of the population that holds on to concepts/ideas that they will simply not let go no matter what the evidence is.  And so it goes.  Evolution versus Intelligent Design [http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf Read a Judgement by a Conservative Judge in the Dover Case from Pennsylvania]&lt;br /&gt;
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:The little evidence that actually exists in support of evolution is really not all that convincing, (at least to me) and often raises more questions than it does answers. The overwhelming complexity of life and natural systems means that it is entirely unlikely that things developed this way by chance. (This viewpoint, of course, does exclude such concepts as Deistic and Theistic Evolution). In addition, there are literally thousands of &amp;quot;missing links&amp;quot;. Science has not been able to conclusively bridge the numerous gaps between species that appear in the fossil record, often concluding, &amp;quot;well, it just happened that way&amp;quot; without any evidence to support such an assertion.&lt;br /&gt;
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:The available evidence really doesn't support a 6,000 year timeline, to be fair, hence I cannot accept most young earth viewpoints of Creation, but one can still accept a literal creation and be in line with what science has actually discovered. One must realize, however, that the evolution-creation debate lies outside of the scope of science. Neither is repeatable, and neither can truly be tested via the scientific method. --[[User:Blu Aardvark|Blu Aardvark]] 09:28, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::With respect, your perspective that evolution = chance is false. The following link is a good introduction to explaining why this is so [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html]. It's a bit complicated in places, however. [[User:Nematocyte|Nematocyte]] 09:50, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Aardvark, one point to make, Creation is not a testable situation but evolution is.  Just observation over time of species can support evolution.  Viral and bacterial genetic adaptations supports evolution as well as breeding of dogs and corn.  If you could not mate two different breeds of dogs and get a new breed over time then evolution would be rendered false.  Two different pieces of evidence supporting both micro and macro evolution.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 11:06, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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It's not convincing at all. There's no evidence at all. I spent 3 hours yesterday talking via [[Internet Relay Chat]] with two of the smartest people at Wikipedia, and they were unable to show any evidence of a new species coming into being via natural forces; any evidence supporting the [[Theory of evolution through natural selection]]; or even the appearance of a new species of [[microbe]]. Among other things, &amp;quot;Andre&amp;quot; kept confusing [[strain]] with [[species]]. I'd love to show a transcript but we had all agreed not to log the chat session. Darn. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:59, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:As for the origin of a new species, no it would not be clear since speciation usually involves relatively small changes, be they physiological, morphological, behavioral, or, as often the case, simply genetic.  The only way for us to determine if a new species had evolved would be through a series of comparisons of the organism to the parent species.  This can be a problem due to horizontal gene transfer which can make it even more difficult to define a new species. All definitions of species assume that an organism gets all its genes from one or two parents which are very like that organism, but horizontal gene transfer makes that assumption false.  So in regards to finding a new species, it will not be evident.  All that can be shown to provide evidence for evolution in organisms in a controlled environment would be the small mutations that cause physiological change in the offspring such as antibiotic resistance in bacteria.  Would this be considered a new species of bacteria, no it would be a new strain.  However what would define a new species of bacteria?  A change of shape, say from rod to sphere?  This might be possible if the bacteria were subjected to gradual environmental stresses.  Perhaps I should try this in the lab (could make a very interesting observation).--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 17:19, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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The thing is, evolution is shoved down out throats as a fact. The truth of the matter is, theres evidence to support multipul theories of existance. The problem is that evolution is the one that is being taught simply because its the most &amp;quot;scientific&amp;quot;. i don't think man will ever know the absolute truth. Never. But what can you do? [[User: DfairlyXED13|DfairlyXED13]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No one is forcing anything down your throat.  You are free to believe that the earth and everything was created 4000 years ago (or 6000 or whatever your Bible tells you).  I am glad you know the absolute truth.  You may be perturbed to learn that much of modern medicine depends on a knowledge of evolution and the role it plays today - particularly with respect to those nasties we call bacteria that can kill.  But then, I am sure you have alternate explanations that work for you, good. I am sure it may also perturb you that millions and billions of others seem to be ignorant of what you believe or do not want to believe whatever you believe.  So, what can you do?  Believe what you believe, spread your word loudly so everyone can hear.  Preach the words you know to everyone and defend yourself against attacks as coming from ignorant people who do not know the absolute truth.  I would also recommend you simply stop taking science and math classes, they will distress you.[[User:Seekcommon]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I'd have to say that the very reason the Evolution - Creation debate is such a hotbed of activity is because those that interpret scripture literally are threatened by it. If the theory of evolution were as blatantly false as its opponents dictate, then it would be little threat to Creationist thinking, and therefore not worth the time and energy debating. However, because popular opinion overwhelmingly supports the theory of evolution, it comes as a threat to its opponents, one that they spend enormous amounts of energy trying to refute, often with belittling attacks that point out flaws or missing details (ironically only strengthening the scientific method in practice). And I don't really care about anybody who says that the majority does NOT support evolution. That is just false. It doesn't matter if all of America denied evolution; the majority would still rest squarely on the shoulders of Evolution. That's right, there is, in fact, a world outside of the United States' public opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
Also, it's interesting to note that there are very few (if any) people opposed to the theory of evolution without religios overtones. It seems like the problem arises only when a perceived contradiction with Scripture is observed. In fact, all opponents of the theory of evolution have had a religious agenda replacing it. If the scientific evidence against Evolution were truly as vast as Creationists explain, then the Evolution theory would be eclipsed by another scientific theory. But, since that hasn't happened yet, it looks like most of the available evidence points towards evolution.&lt;br /&gt;
p.s. if anyone can direct me to published works from non-religious alternatives to Evolution, please let me know!&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_evidence_in_favor_of_evolution_convincing%3F&amp;diff=107066</id>
		<title>Debate:Is the evidence in favor of evolution convincing?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_evidence_in_favor_of_evolution_convincing%3F&amp;diff=107066"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T20:33:40Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
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I try and try to hold on to the truth I was taught by my family and the church, but the more I read and learn, the more strongly I become convinced - as if involuntarily - that Darwin, Dawkins and the rest of them are right. Is this Satan tempting me? What should I do to rid myself of the growing conviction that creationism is nonsense spun up by bigots to justify their social status?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
creationism is used to promote the idea that &amp;quot; god' created everything, that is why there is a 6,000 year timeline generally cited. By as the proof of creationism is debunked, new ideas to try and cover the flaws in the creationism are floated, enter intelligent design. I'm sure that will be proved false too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Science works best when theories are attacked - since it brings change, improves old theories or replaces them.  &amp;quot;Falsifiability&amp;quot; remains the hallmark.  Nothing is immune and so is subject to change because of new information and potentially new interpretation.  The more vigorously evolution is attacked, the better it's position gets as the years go by - the attacks are so transparently terrible that it only serves to advance the very cause of science and the scientific process.  It is not possible to continue to build a case against evolution using arguments that cannot be sustained except in those minds that will refuse to accept anything that contradicts what they fervently believe.  The debate continues.  That it is not necessary to attack evolution as a way to justify the presence of God is amply demonstrated by Francis Collins in his latest book &amp;quot;Language of God&amp;quot; or Kenneth R. Miller's &amp;quot;Finding Darwin's God&amp;quot; (and his articles).  Perhaps many who were never aware of what evolution really is, may now make themselves aware - in trying to understand why there is so much venom against it.  I mean, if something is being attacked so vigorously, it will pique more interest.  So, bring it on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The theory of evolution is just that, a theory.  It has not been proved and it never will be.  There is no need to investigate this topic using &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; when it is clearly answered in Genesis.  Furthermore, science is a manifestation of the devil fabricated to undermine God and his beautiful gift to all mankind.  My advice to you my Christian brother is: Love your god and your country in that order and never doubt the decisions of either.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: It's true, evolution is a theory.  There are some other theories that you may have heard about.  Theory of electromagnetic radiation and Maxwell's equation, theories that describe how electrons move and behave and ofcourse Einstein's Special and General Theory of Relativity.  The internet and browsers and tcp/ip and dhcp and cable modems and phones and dsl are all completely unrelated to science and engineering advancements.  Even these words are only a figment of your imagination.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think you may want to see [[Theistic Evolution]], the belief that Evolution took place, but God intervened to give humans souls, etc. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000CC&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;00FFAA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:27, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes the theory of evolution is just that, a theory, so is gravity. You are right the theory will never be proven, theories are never proven, just tested until they are rendered false.  What I do not understand is your statement about science being a manifestation of the devil, are people in the US that uneducated?  Science is about finding logical reasons to what is observed.  If someone were to tell you that the sun is blue, and you looked up to see the color then checked what you knew to be shades of yellow, just to make sure you were not confused about color, you would be using science.  Perhaps you should think on this, also please post your name, Bart2461, it is rude to not do so.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 14:44, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Actually, as this is a sort of Essay, it is not customary to sign your name. In fact, discussion should be taking place on the discussion page, rather than on the actual page. [[User:GofG | GofG]] [[Special:Contributions/GofG|&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;]] [[User talk:GofG | Talk]] 16:35, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: If God is benevolent, then He is not trying to trick you with what you see in the world around you.  What you read in the Old Testament and Genesis is written by people with the same basic mindset as those who wrote about Egyptian gods and their creation stories, or Greek gods and their creation stories, or Hindu gods and their creation stories.  They were trying to describe the world as best they can.  Is it necessary that any of these be ''literally'' true?  Or is it more of a way that each ancient culture justifies their connection to their gods?  Think about what is necessary for salvation - is it a literal reading of Genesis? or belief in Jesus?  --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 17:42, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The urge to believe in somethings are so strong that no matter how many contradictions may exist, there is reluctance to accept that.  Peter McWilliams in his book &amp;quot;It's No ones Business if you do&amp;quot; argues persuasively as to how, when examined the context of the time when it was written (like so many books in the history of man) the Bible does contain time immemorial words of wisdom and help.  It is scary for many to imagine that such words of wisdom are in fact found in many different parts of the world in different ways and published in many ways.  The refusal to see anything other than what one believes is what has led to the many horrors of man's inhumanity to man. -- [[User:kchittur|kchittur]] 21:50 (CDT) 22 March 2007&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Evolution is so darn convincing because it is happening today.  Life evolves to fit changing conditions of weather as science has shown us by carefully monitoring the life cycle of certain insects in northern Canada who are breeding a few weeks differently because of global warming.  BUT, the question is not, &amp;quot;Does evolution happen&amp;quot; because it does.  Instead, the question is: &amp;quot;Did man evolve from a batch of chemicals&amp;quot;.  The first point is not completely understood because we view a tiny slice of time.  Our lack of complete understanding does not let us predict with certainty whether  man evolved from a batch of hot chemicals within Earth's history. [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 11:52, 23 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
'''Because it is a Fact'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Evolution is the most verified, validated, proven, observed and observable scientific theories.  Only those with an obvious agenda and willful ignorance in the face of clear concise proof still attempt to deny it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Science and scientists understand what &amp;quot;theory&amp;quot; means.  Even though scientists can write ad-nauseam about evidence pointing out to why evolution is supported by evidence, there will always be someone, somewhere pointing out some obscure item/fact that does not seem to agree with existing theories - and instead of asking for a revision of parts of the theory, want to throw the entire thing over ... Oh, yes, the alternatives offered cannot be challenged since the proof of the alternatives (whatever that may be) is axiomatic and consequently do not need anything resembling proof in the way science/scientists understand.  Fear pervades a segment of the population that holds on to concepts/ideas that they will simply not let go no matter what the evidence is.  And so it goes.  Evolution versus Intelligent Design [http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf Read a Judgement by a Conservative Judge in the Dover Case from Pennsylvania]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The little evidence that actually exists in support of evolution is really not all that convincing, (at least to me) and often raises more questions than it does answers. The overwhelming complexity of life and natural systems means that it is entirely unlikely that things developed this way by chance. (This viewpoint, of course, does exclude such concepts as Deistic and Theistic Evolution). In addition, there are literally thousands of &amp;quot;missing links&amp;quot;. Science has not been able to conclusively bridge the numerous gaps between species that appear in the fossil record, often concluding, &amp;quot;well, it just happened that way&amp;quot; without any evidence to support such an assertion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The available evidence really doesn't support a 6,000 year timeline, to be fair, hence I cannot accept most young earth viewpoints of Creation, but one can still accept a literal creation and be in line with what science has actually discovered. One must realize, however, that the evolution-creation debate lies outside of the scope of science. Neither is repeatable, and neither can truly be tested via the scientific method. --[[User:Blu Aardvark|Blu Aardvark]] 09:28, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::With respect, your perspective that evolution = chance is false. The following link is a good introduction to explaining why this is so [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html]. It's a bit complicated in places, however. [[User:Nematocyte|Nematocyte]] 09:50, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Aardvark, one point to make, Creation is not a testable situation but evolution is.  Just observation over time of species can support evolution.  Viral and bacterial genetic adaptations supports evolution as well as breeding of dogs and corn.  If you could not mate two different breeds of dogs and get a new breed over time then evolution would be rendered false.  Two different pieces of evidence supporting both micro and macro evolution.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 11:06, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not convincing at all. There's no evidence at all. I spent 3 hours yesterday talking via [[Internet Relay Chat]] with two of the smartest people at Wikipedia, and they were unable to show any evidence of a new species coming into being via natural forces; any evidence supporting the [[Theory of evolution through natural selection]]; or even the appearance of a new species of [[microbe]]. Among other things, &amp;quot;Andre&amp;quot; kept confusing [[strain]] with [[species]]. I'd love to show a transcript but we had all agreed not to log the chat session. Darn. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:59, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:As for the origin of a new species, no it would not be clear since speciation usually involves relatively small changes, be they physiological, morphological, behavioral, or, as often the case, simply genetic.  The only way for us to determine if a new species had evolved would be through a series of comparisons of the organism to the parent species.  This can be a problem due to horizontal gene transfer which can make it even more difficult to define a new species. All definitions of species assume that an organism gets all its genes from one or two parents which are very like that organism, but horizontal gene transfer makes that assumption false.  So in regards to finding a new species, it will not be evident.  All that can be shown to provide evidence for evolution in organisms in a controlled environment would be the small mutations that cause physiological change in the offspring such as antibiotic resistance in bacteria.  Would this be considered a new species of bacteria, no it would be a new strain.  However what would define a new species of bacteria?  A change of shape, say from rod to sphere?  This might be possible if the bacteria were subjected to gradual environmental stresses.  Perhaps I should try this in the lab (could make a very interesting observation).--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 17:19, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The thing is, evolution is shoved down out throats as a fact. The truth of the matter is, theres evidence to support multipul theories of existance. The problem is that evolution is the one that is being taught simply because its the most &amp;quot;scientific&amp;quot;. i don't think man will ever know the absolute truth. Never. But what can you do? [[User: DfairlyXED13|DfairlyXED13]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No one is forcing anything down your throat.  You are free to believe that the earth and everything was created 4000 years ago (or 6000 or whatever your Bible tells you).  I am glad you know the absolute truth.  You may be perturbed to learn that much of modern medicine depends on a knowledge of evolution and the role it plays today - particularly with respect to those nasties we call bacteria that can kill.  But then, I am sure you have alternate explanations that work for you, good. I am sure it may also perturb you that millions and billions of others seem to be ignorant of what you believe or do not want to believe whatever you believe.  So, what can you do?  Believe what you believe, spread your word loudly so everyone can hear.  Preach the words you know to everyone and defend yourself against attacks as coming from ignorant people who do not know the absolute truth.  I would also recommend you simply stop taking science and math classes, they will distress you.[[User:Seekcommon]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 I'd have to say that the very reason the Evolution - Creation debate is such a hotbed of activity is because those that interpret scripture literally are threatened by it. If the theory of evolution were as blatantly false as its opponents dictate, then it would be little threat to Creationist thinking, and therefore not worth the time and energy debating. However, because popular opinion overwhelmingly supports the theory of evolution, it comes as a threat to its opponents, one that they spend enormous amounts of energy trying to refute, often with belittling attacks that point out flaws or missing details (ironically only strengthening the scientific method in practice). And I don't really care about anybody who says that the majority does NOT support evolution. That is just false. It doesn't matter if all of America denied evolution; the majority would still rest squarely on the shoulders of Evolution. That's right, there is, in fact, a world outside of the United States' public opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
 Also, it's interesting to note that there are very few (if any) people opposed to the theory of evolution without religios overtones. It seems like the problem arises only when a perceived contradiction with Scripture is observed. In fact, all opponents of the theory of evolution have had a religious agenda replacing it. If the scientific evidence against Evolution were truly as vast as Creationists explain, then the Evolution theory would be eclipsed by another scientific theory. But, since that hasn't happened yet, it looks like most of the available evidence points towards evolution.&lt;br /&gt;
p.s. if anyone can direct me to published works from non-religious alternatives to Evolution, please let me know!&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_evidence_in_favor_of_evolution_convincing%3F&amp;diff=107063</id>
		<title>Debate:Is the evidence in favor of evolution convincing?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_the_evidence_in_favor_of_evolution_convincing%3F&amp;diff=107063"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T20:33:10Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;hr /&gt;
&lt;div&gt;{{debate}}&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I try and try to hold on to the truth I was taught by my family and the church, but the more I read and learn, the more strongly I become convinced - as if involuntarily - that Darwin, Dawkins and the rest of them are right. Is this Satan tempting me? What should I do to rid myself of the growing conviction that creationism is nonsense spun up by bigots to justify their social status?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
creationism is used to promote the idea that &amp;quot; god' created everything, that is why there is a 6,000 year timeline generally cited. By as the proof of creationism is debunked, new ideas to try and cover the flaws in the creationism are floated, enter intelligent design. I'm sure that will be proved false too.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Science works best when theories are attacked - since it brings change, improves old theories or replaces them.  &amp;quot;Falsifiability&amp;quot; remains the hallmark.  Nothing is immune and so is subject to change because of new information and potentially new interpretation.  The more vigorously evolution is attacked, the better it's position gets as the years go by - the attacks are so transparently terrible that it only serves to advance the very cause of science and the scientific process.  It is not possible to continue to build a case against evolution using arguments that cannot be sustained except in those minds that will refuse to accept anything that contradicts what they fervently believe.  The debate continues.  That it is not necessary to attack evolution as a way to justify the presence of God is amply demonstrated by Francis Collins in his latest book &amp;quot;Language of God&amp;quot; or Kenneth R. Miller's &amp;quot;Finding Darwin's God&amp;quot; (and his articles).  Perhaps many who were never aware of what evolution really is, may now make themselves aware - in trying to understand why there is so much venom against it.  I mean, if something is being attacked so vigorously, it will pique more interest.  So, bring it on.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The theory of evolution is just that, a theory.  It has not been proved and it never will be.  There is no need to investigate this topic using &amp;quot;science&amp;quot; when it is clearly answered in Genesis.  Furthermore, science is a manifestation of the devil fabricated to undermine God and his beautiful gift to all mankind.  My advice to you my Christian brother is: Love your god and your country in that order and never doubt the decisions of either.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: It's true, evolution is a theory.  There are some other theories that you may have heard about.  Theory of electromagnetic radiation and Maxwell's equation, theories that describe how electrons move and behave and ofcourse Einstein's Special and General Theory of Relativity.  The internet and browsers and tcp/ip and dhcp and cable modems and phones and dsl are all completely unrelated to science and engineering advancements.  Even these words are only a figment of your imagination.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:I think you may want to see [[Theistic Evolution]], the belief that Evolution took place, but God intervened to give humans souls, etc. --&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;#0000CC&amp;quot; face=&amp;quot;Comic Sans MS&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User:Hojimachong|'''Hojimachong''']]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;font color=&amp;quot;00FFAA&amp;quot;&amp;gt;[[User_Talk:Hojimachong|talk]]&amp;lt;/font&amp;gt;&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt; 14:27, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:Yes the theory of evolution is just that, a theory, so is gravity. You are right the theory will never be proven, theories are never proven, just tested until they are rendered false.  What I do not understand is your statement about science being a manifestation of the devil, are people in the US that uneducated?  Science is about finding logical reasons to what is observed.  If someone were to tell you that the sun is blue, and you looked up to see the color then checked what you knew to be shades of yellow, just to make sure you were not confused about color, you would be using science.  Perhaps you should think on this, also please post your name, Bart2461, it is rude to not do so.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 14:44, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Actually, as this is a sort of Essay, it is not customary to sign your name. In fact, discussion should be taking place on the discussion page, rather than on the actual page. [[User:GofG | GofG]] [[Special:Contributions/GofG|&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sup&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sup&amp;gt;&amp;lt;sub&amp;gt;|&amp;lt;/sub&amp;gt;]] [[User talk:GofG | Talk]] 16:35, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: If God is benevolent, then He is not trying to trick you with what you see in the world around you.  What you read in the Old Testament and Genesis is written by people with the same basic mindset as those who wrote about Egyptian gods and their creation stories, or Greek gods and their creation stories, or Hindu gods and their creation stories.  They were trying to describe the world as best they can.  Is it necessary that any of these be ''literally'' true?  Or is it more of a way that each ancient culture justifies their connection to their gods?  Think about what is necessary for salvation - is it a literal reading of Genesis? or belief in Jesus?  --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 17:42, 22 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
: The urge to believe in somethings are so strong that no matter how many contradictions may exist, there is reluctance to accept that.  Peter McWilliams in his book &amp;quot;It's No ones Business if you do&amp;quot; argues persuasively as to how, when examined the context of the time when it was written (like so many books in the history of man) the Bible does contain time immemorial words of wisdom and help.  It is scary for many to imagine that such words of wisdom are in fact found in many different parts of the world in different ways and published in many ways.  The refusal to see anything other than what one believes is what has led to the many horrors of man's inhumanity to man. -- [[User:kchittur|kchittur]] 21:50 (CDT) 22 March 2007&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:: Evolution is so darn convincing because it is happening today.  Life evolves to fit changing conditions of weather as science has shown us by carefully monitoring the life cycle of certain insects in northern Canada who are breeding a few weeks differently because of global warming.  BUT, the question is not, &amp;quot;Does evolution happen&amp;quot; because it does.  Instead, the question is: &amp;quot;Did man evolve from a batch of chemicals&amp;quot;.  The first point is not completely understood because we view a tiny slice of time.  Our lack of complete understanding does not let us predict with certainty whether  man evolved from a batch of hot chemicals within Earth's history. [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 11:52, 23 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
'''Because it is a Fact'''&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Evolution is the most verified, validated, proven, observed and observable scientific theories.  Only those with an obvious agenda and willful ignorance in the face of clear concise proof still attempt to deny it.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Science and scientists understand what &amp;quot;theory&amp;quot; means.  Even though scientists can write ad-nauseam about evidence pointing out to why evolution is supported by evidence, there will always be someone, somewhere pointing out some obscure item/fact that does not seem to agree with existing theories - and instead of asking for a revision of parts of the theory, want to throw the entire thing over ... Oh, yes, the alternatives offered cannot be challenged since the proof of the alternatives (whatever that may be) is axiomatic and consequently do not need anything resembling proof in the way science/scientists understand.  Fear pervades a segment of the population that holds on to concepts/ideas that they will simply not let go no matter what the evidence is.  And so it goes.  Evolution versus Intelligent Design [http://www.pamd.uscourts.gov/kitzmiller/kitzmiller_342.pdf Read a Judgement by a Conservative Judge in the Dover Case from Pennsylvania]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The little evidence that actually exists in support of evolution is really not all that convincing, (at least to me) and often raises more questions than it does answers. The overwhelming complexity of life and natural systems means that it is entirely unlikely that things developed this way by chance. (This viewpoint, of course, does exclude such concepts as Deistic and Theistic Evolution). In addition, there are literally thousands of &amp;quot;missing links&amp;quot;. Science has not been able to conclusively bridge the numerous gaps between species that appear in the fossil record, often concluding, &amp;quot;well, it just happened that way&amp;quot; without any evidence to support such an assertion.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:The available evidence really doesn't support a 6,000 year timeline, to be fair, hence I cannot accept most young earth viewpoints of Creation, but one can still accept a literal creation and be in line with what science has actually discovered. One must realize, however, that the evolution-creation debate lies outside of the scope of science. Neither is repeatable, and neither can truly be tested via the scientific method. --[[User:Blu Aardvark|Blu Aardvark]] 09:28, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::With respect, your perspective that evolution = chance is false. The following link is a good introduction to explaining why this is so [http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/chance/chance.html]. It's a bit complicated in places, however. [[User:Nematocyte|Nematocyte]] 09:50, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
::Aardvark, one point to make, Creation is not a testable situation but evolution is.  Just observation over time of species can support evolution.  Viral and bacterial genetic adaptations supports evolution as well as breeding of dogs and corn.  If you could not mate two different breeds of dogs and get a new breed over time then evolution would be rendered false.  Two different pieces of evidence supporting both micro and macro evolution.--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 11:06, 26 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
It's not convincing at all. There's no evidence at all. I spent 3 hours yesterday talking via [[Internet Relay Chat]] with two of the smartest people at Wikipedia, and they were unable to show any evidence of a new species coming into being via natural forces; any evidence supporting the [[Theory of evolution through natural selection]]; or even the appearance of a new species of [[microbe]]. Among other things, &amp;quot;Andre&amp;quot; kept confusing [[strain]] with [[species]]. I'd love to show a transcript but we had all agreed not to log the chat session. Darn. --[[User:Ed Poor|Ed Poor]] 12:59, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
:As for the origin of a new species, no it would not be clear since speciation usually involves relatively small changes, be they physiological, morphological, behavioral, or, as often the case, simply genetic.  The only way for us to determine if a new species had evolved would be through a series of comparisons of the organism to the parent species.  This can be a problem due to horizontal gene transfer which can make it even more difficult to define a new species. All definitions of species assume that an organism gets all its genes from one or two parents which are very like that organism, but horizontal gene transfer makes that assumption false.  So in regards to finding a new species, it will not be evident.  All that can be shown to provide evidence for evolution in organisms in a controlled environment would be the small mutations that cause physiological change in the offspring such as antibiotic resistance in bacteria.  Would this be considered a new species of bacteria, no it would be a new strain.  However what would define a new species of bacteria?  A change of shape, say from rod to sphere?  This might be possible if the bacteria were subjected to gradual environmental stresses.  Perhaps I should try this in the lab (could make a very interesting observation).--[[User:Tims|TimS]] 17:19, 11 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The thing is, evolution is shoved down out throats as a fact. The truth of the matter is, theres evidence to support multipul theories of existance. The problem is that evolution is the one that is being taught simply because its the most &amp;quot;scientific&amp;quot;. i don't think man will ever know the absolute truth. Never. But what can you do? [[User: DfairlyXED13|DfairlyXED13]]&lt;br /&gt;
: No one is forcing anything down your throat.  You are free to believe that the earth and everything was created 4000 years ago (or 6000 or whatever your Bible tells you).  I am glad you know the absolute truth.  You may be perturbed to learn that much of modern medicine depends on a knowledge of evolution and the role it plays today - particularly with respect to those nasties we call bacteria that can kill.  But then, I am sure you have alternate explanations that work for you, good. I am sure it may also perturb you that millions and billions of others seem to be ignorant of what you believe or do not want to believe whatever you believe.  So, what can you do?  Believe what you believe, spread your word loudly so everyone can hear.  Preach the words you know to everyone and defend yourself against attacks as coming from ignorant people who do not know the absolute truth.  I would also recommend you simply stop taking science and math classes, they will distress you.[[User:Seekcommon]]&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
    I'd have to say that the very reason the Evolution - Creation debate is such a hotbed of activity is because those that interpret scripture literally are threatened by it. If the theory of evolution were as blatantly false as its opponents dictate, then it would be little threat to Creationist thinking, and therefore not worth the time and energy debating. However, because popular opinion overwhelmingly supports the theory of evolution, it comes as a threat to its opponents, one that they spend enormous amounts of energy trying to refute, often with belittling attacks that point out flaws or missing details (ironically only strengthening the scientific method in practice). And I don't really care about anybody who says that the majority does NOT support evolution. That is just false. It doesn't matter if all of America denied evolution; the majority would still rest squarely on the shoulders of Evolution. That's right, there is, in fact, a world outside of the United States' public opinion.&lt;br /&gt;
    Also, it's interesting to note that there are very few (if any) people opposed to the theory of evolution without religios overtones. It seems like the problem arises only when a perceived contradiction with Scripture is observed. In fact, all opponents of the theory of evolution have had a religious agenda replacing it. If the scientific evidence against Evolution were truly as vast as Creationists explain, then the Evolution theory would be eclipsed by another scientific theory. But, since that hasn't happened yet, it looks like most of the available evidence points towards evolution.&lt;br /&gt;
p.s. if anyone can direct me to published works from non-religious alternatives to Evolution, please let me know!&lt;br /&gt;
[[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
	</entry>
	<entry>
		<id>https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_President_Bush_good_for_America%3F&amp;diff=107000</id>
		<title>Debate:Is President Bush good for America?</title>
		<link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="https://www.conservapedia.com/index.php?title=Debate:Is_President_Bush_good_for_America%3F&amp;diff=107000"/>
		<updated>2007-04-14T20:02:43Z</updated>

		<summary type="html">&lt;p&gt;AdamNelson: &lt;/p&gt;
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Ever since his contested election of 2000, the rest of the world has gone stark mad with hatred toward anything President Bush is involved with. If you ever had your doubts about the man, think of this. In 2000, the Supreme Court awarded the Presidency to GWB on December 12th. That is also the feast day of Our Lady of Guadalupe, patron Saint of the Americas. Coincidence? Give Bush the benefit of the doubt. Divinity could be playing a larger role in America.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 04:35, 28 March 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:I do believe that God chose George W. Bush to be our president.  In these days of pesticides and antibiotics, plagues of locusts and boils just don't have the impact they used to, so instead He sent us Bush.  --[[User:BDobbs|BDobbs]] 16:48, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: Typical leftwing rant to trash Bush. No credit for 2000+ days without a terror strike on the homeland. I would say his strategy maybe working. Thats too much for a regressive liberal to accept or give thanks for.&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Yes.  Terrorists don't have to come all the way over here to kill Americans.  We sent Americans to them.  Perhaps there was a way to do it without having so many people die. (By the way, even on here you're going to have trouble associating &amp;quot;liberal&amp;quot; with &amp;quot;regressive.&amp;quot;  That's a hard sell.) [[User:Myk|Myk]] 02:44, 6 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:::Yes, a secure America. Isn't that what all Americans want? We do send a volunteer army of Americans to fight them abroad, there is no other way to do it. There is one other way, Clintonism. Whereby, we ignore the terrorists, or negotiate with them and when that doesn't work, they attack America.--[[User:Jpatt|jp]] 11:04, 6 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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NO&lt;br /&gt;
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just what if......&lt;br /&gt;
We put GWB on the nuremburg war trials? Result? convicted of two counts of illegal invasion and other war crimes. having a criminal as a president is most definatly bad for a country[[User:Ampasand|Ampasand]] 19:28, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::No doubt having a criminal for a president is bad for a country, as we learned from 8 years of Clinton running around the Oval office. But let me see if I understand, are you attempting to compare President Bush with nazis who slaughtered millions of innocent people?  Is this a joke?  Are you saying that one of the counts of illegal invasion is Afghanistan or are you thinking of Waco? (That was Clinton)  There are not many people who agree that the invasion of Afghanistan was illegal.  Question: what about all of the democrats who voted for the war in Iraq, what if they were tried?  Would they be criminals too? With Bush in office there have been no successful terrorist attacks on our soil since 9/11.  Also, Bush was not &amp;quot;awarded the presidency&amp;quot; by the supreme court.  He won the electoral race, hence his election.  [[User:Bohdan|Bohdan]] 16:40, 1 April 2007 (EDT)  &lt;br /&gt;
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No.  If he hadn't gone into Iraq, he would have gone down is history as a great (or at least fine) president, but now he'll be remembered for dragging us into this unending Iraqi quagmire.  His policies have slashed the social services budget (schools, health care, etc) and are bad for the environment.  Sadly, he's been playing the 9/11 card as an excuse for everything.  History, and history alone will show who's right. [[User:Czolgolz|Czolgolz]] 10:07, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Fortunately for everyone (except evil terrorists) Bush would rather do the right thing in Iraq than go down in history as &amp;quot;great&amp;quot;. --[[User:BenjaminS|BenjaminS]] 11:08, 6 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:You're assuming there we BE any history.  http://www.theonion.com/content/node/52331 &lt;br /&gt;
:And I'd argue Bush would still not have been remembered favorably--he's the only President I know of who's let an entire city get washed into the Gulf of Mexico. --[[User:BDobbs|BDobbs]] 16:48, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:: There you are again trashing Bush. Blame Bush for Katrina. Always pointing the finger. Maybe you should rethink your America is the bad guy scenerio.&lt;br /&gt;
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No. He hasn't vetoed an entire spending bill. The national debt will destroy our economy once China wants to cash in. Bush is no conservative. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 16:52, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Someone disagrees with you, MD: [[Conservative]] [[User:Myk|Myk]] 16:57, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:Yet so many Conservatives stampeded to vote for him both times, defended his every press-conference as though it'd come down off of Mt. Sinai, and denounced anyone who criticized him as VILE TERRORIST-LOVING '''TRAITORS'''.... And now they're denouncing him.  Why the sudden change of heart?  The Kool-Aide get too watered-down all of a sudden?  --[[User:BDobbs|BDobbs]] 16:59, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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Why are you lumping me in with that group? How do you know my past opinions? [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 17:01, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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:It doesn't seem like he did, MD.  Everything in his post was about &amp;quot;them&amp;quot; not &amp;quot;you.&amp;quot; [[User:Myk|Myk]] 17:05, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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::Okay, apologies.&lt;br /&gt;
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I seriously don't know what I'm going to do in 2008. I haven't ruled out voting third party out of protest if I don't like the nominees. [[User:MountainDew|MountainDew]] 17:11, 1 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I'll vote for the republican nominee as the lesser of two evils. I'd rather see pretty much ''any'' Republican in office than hillary or Barack. --[[User:BenjaminS|BenjaminS]] 11:12, 6 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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: My ideal ticket that isn't likely to make it is McCain and Powell.  I believe they actually have the knowledge and understanding of what it is to be in war and how to deal with a company that is in one rather than what is currently being done.  Additionally, I believe that it is important to have at least one house of congress to be held by the other political party (whoever that is) - one needs the checks and balances.  With the old congress it wasn't much more than a rubber stamp to the president which lead to no idea of compromise or what is best for those who voted them into office.  --[[User:Mtur|Mtur]] 21:43, 2 April 2007 (EDT)&lt;br /&gt;
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I think it's a little of both man. The war is entirely justifiable, but the immigration standards are set way to high for the average immigrant to meet, even the very rare case of those who come well connected. I don't agree with everything he does but I think he did a very nice job. [[User:DfairlyXED13|DfairlyXED13]]&lt;br /&gt;
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I hope people realize that the very reason there are terrorists targeting America is directly because of its foreign policy. Maybe if American foreign policy didn't stick its nose where it didn't belong, we wouldn't have had a tremendous loss in Vietnam, countless nations vehemently loathing us due to the CIA deciding to destabilize them, and another tremendous loss in Iraq with an unpopular war, many casualties, a bloated military that doesn't seem to get the job done, and secular infighting between Shiites and Sunnis in Iraq. [[User:AdamNelson|AdamNelson]]&lt;/div&gt;</summary>
		<author><name>AdamNelson</name></author>
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